WEBVTT

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welcome to gaming nodes a

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somewhat less than weekly

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podcast from independent

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validated teams we're back

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from our summer break uh

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stream yard has added lots

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of new features docs the

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software that we use to do

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the podcast right there um

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and we now have lost the

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ability I think to pre-rug

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at the start of the show

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because it's now clever

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enough to um actually just

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always sequence the intro and and uh

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It was a technological and

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understanding limitation of

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ours that led to our habit

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of talking when one of us

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had already started the recording,

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which is obviously a

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feature of the hundredth anniversary.

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Well, I walked into that one.

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Does that feel better?

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Does that feel more natural now?

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Welcome to Game of Nodes,

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a somewhat weekly Validator

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podcast from independent Validator teams.

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We're back from our summer break.

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We're raring to go.

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Very bullish indicator for the market,

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for the whole economy, really.

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I think, you know,

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things have maybe been a

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little bit not on track of late.

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It's time for us to get

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things back on track.

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So we said, let's get on a call.

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Let's thrash it out.

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Here we go.

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Shorty, I got to say,

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I thought you had a massive

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home lab behind you last

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time I saw you on video.

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Has that moved to somewhere?

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Has that moved to a secure location?

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A less secure location.

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That's in the garage now, actually.

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It puts out... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

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I'm not dealing with this.

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Not happening much.

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Yeah.

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It's nice in the garage.

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That's what happened there.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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you got a warm garage in winter then.

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Yeah.

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There's no humidity out there or anything,

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right?

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In the Pacific Northwest,

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it should be fine.

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It's fine.

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That's right.

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Actually,

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I ran so much shit in the garage

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for years.

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It doesn't really, I mean, it's fine.

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It's a little bit hotter

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than I want it to be,

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but it is that temperatures

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are still safe.

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So I'm like, man, it'll be fine.

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So that mini that mini rack

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is five hundred watts.

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It's like a ten.

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I mean, it was.

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Yeah, but I, you know,

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seven servers on it and

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other like periphery things

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attached to it.

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And then a lot.

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Yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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There's spinners in there.

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Or is it all SSD?

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Oh, okay.

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Well, so I had the NAS right next to it.

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And so I'm including that into it.

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So the entire lab got moved.

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We got you.

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But yeah.

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The lab.

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The lab sounds more formal.

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Yeah, the lab sounds formal.

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It's like summer break.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Look at this.

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I shaved.

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We're coming back fully professional,

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fully loaded.

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I took this T-shirt.

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Actually, you can't see it on the podcast.

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Sorry for those listening

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later on podcast players.

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I took this T-shirt to the

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summer conferences,

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and I was expecting it to

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kind of wind people up,

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and it just didn't.

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What is it?

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An open paren?

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It's just one open paren,

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which I wore to a

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conference several years ago,

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and somebody clocked it across a room,

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and they were having a conversation.

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I could see that it irritated them,

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and they stopped their conversation,

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walked through a room of

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several hundred people to me.

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and just shook their head.

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They were like shaking.

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They were so angry.

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And they're just like, you're a monster.

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Why would you do this in a room of people?

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I'm the only one that's come

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over to say to you,

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but you're just annoying

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people for no reason.

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That's funny.

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And I was like, yes.

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And they were like, no,

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but you're just winding people up.

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This is such an effective way of winding.

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It's just not nice.

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And I was like, okay.

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Sorry, man.

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I hope you have a good rest

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of your conference.

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Anyway,

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so I wore it to a crypto conference.

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And it goes to show how few

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technical people there are

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at a crypto conference.

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because none of the

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marketing managers that I

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met were in the slightest

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worried about it while they

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were trying to sell me bare

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metal servers so and get me

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to pay get me to pay for

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our company to participate

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in test nets or whatever it

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was there's there's a lot

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of there's a lot of weird

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vibes at conferences at the

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moment a lot of it is hey

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you're an independent

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validator how would you

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like to give us money and it's like oh

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I may not be the sharpest

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businessman in the rack of

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business knives,

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but that analogy didn't work at all.

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But I know you're not

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supposed to hand out money

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to participate.

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Speaking of bare metal node providers,

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we just had one that I use

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show up in a blockchain Slack group,

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which I think you guys are both in.

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I was like, is that the same?

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I don't like that shit.

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That's weird.

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I don't like that shit.

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If our partners start

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turning into our competitors,

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then they're not going to

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be our partners anymore.

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And I'm not sure why that

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communication is there.

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It doesn't help anything.

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It's really weird to have that.

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I've had that happen elsewhere too, right?

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Not with that specific vendor,

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but with other vendors where

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like I don't want to call

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anybody out but like

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there's a South American

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vendor that shows up

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everywhere like in all

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these different types of

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that's what I was going to

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say too yeah they show up

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in like and like it's good

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for them because it's

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marketing and they're

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basically it's like a lead

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generation right because

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they're like if anybody

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bitches about a note

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they're probably in the DMs like hey man

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Right.

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I got something for you,

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which I don't like number one,

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because it just adds more

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centralization on that.

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And everybody,

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I think node operators

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should be in the

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responsible for finding

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their own partners and

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figuring that shit out.

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Right.

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But when they show up in chat,

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like I didn't,

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I didn't ask the team why the fuck.

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And so anyway, it was.

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It's weird, right?

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It's happening more and more.

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I think it... I do wonder if

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it's part and parcel of the

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thing that we were talking

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about before the break,

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which is the kind of...

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what are you going to call it,

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like a mergers and

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acquisitions trend or like

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a market concentration

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drive on the validator side

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of the business,

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which is partly adverse

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business conditions,

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but I think it's also

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partly like market maturity or whatever,

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like where there's money,

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it's being squeezed out and

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it's becoming more of a margins game.

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But I think that's also...

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driving it from the other end.

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Because honestly,

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if you've got like a

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hundred independent

00:07:05.548 --> 00:07:06.670
validators who are all

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running hardware and

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they're all paying for it, great.

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But those vendors now are like, well,

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if a lot of the validators

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that are making like serious,

00:07:15.874 --> 00:07:16.834
serious money, you know,

00:07:17.074 --> 00:07:17.954
not like us chumps,

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are like a smaller group of

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no providers, often institutional,

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then those bare metal providers are like,

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well, look,

00:07:29.226 --> 00:07:30.327
it must be doubly the case

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that if they're like, okay,

00:07:31.990 --> 00:07:33.312
a lot of our potential

00:07:33.351 --> 00:07:34.572
customers are now literally

00:07:34.634 --> 00:07:35.754
institutional players that

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have a few engineers and

00:07:37.156 --> 00:07:38.257
ops people in the building,

00:07:38.278 --> 00:07:39.639
they're not going to

00:07:40.843 --> 00:07:41.543
not necessarily going to

00:07:41.562 --> 00:07:44.805
have like a huge uh like a

00:07:44.845 --> 00:07:46.906
an existing pre-sales

00:07:46.966 --> 00:07:49.086
funnel or or like something

00:07:49.127 --> 00:07:50.687
where um you know they

00:07:50.848 --> 00:07:51.629
they're just straight in

00:07:51.649 --> 00:07:53.329
the door with that kind of

00:07:53.348 --> 00:07:54.550
a player so maybe it's just

00:07:54.569 --> 00:07:55.389
straight up that they're

00:07:55.411 --> 00:07:56.630
like well we need to get

00:07:56.651 --> 00:07:57.891
them get in with those

00:07:57.932 --> 00:07:59.252
players and the most likely

00:07:59.752 --> 00:08:00.452
point of contact is the

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foundation I don't know

00:08:02.454 --> 00:08:03.954
yeah I mean I get it from

00:08:03.995 --> 00:08:04.915
their perspective I just I

00:08:04.975 --> 00:08:06.036
don't understand from a

00:08:06.076 --> 00:08:07.916
foundation perspective like I don't know

00:08:09.401 --> 00:08:11.142
Um, I mean, we did have, they,

00:08:11.163 --> 00:08:13.384
they have had this provider had,

00:08:13.564 --> 00:08:16.827
has had like three or four

00:08:16.908 --> 00:08:19.071
fiber outages in routing

00:08:19.091 --> 00:08:20.372
that's affected a few,

00:08:20.632 --> 00:08:21.773
a few different individuals

00:08:22.014 --> 00:08:24.755
like us who run nodes, um,

00:08:25.237 --> 00:08:25.797
in that region.

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So this was in Amsterdam, but they had,

00:08:27.678 --> 00:08:29.120
they had a route that was

00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:31.682
down between like London and Newark.

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And then that put a shitload

00:08:33.687 --> 00:08:34.548
of traffic on a different route.

00:08:34.607 --> 00:08:35.808
Oh, was that the outage that you had?

00:08:35.828 --> 00:08:36.948
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, it wasn't an outage.

00:08:37.649 --> 00:08:39.071
It was just really high latency.

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So anytime that we were proposing,

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we were dropping a shitload of proposals.

00:08:42.332 --> 00:08:43.474
But it was very intermittent.

00:08:43.514 --> 00:08:45.235
You could tell, like, is this the... Yeah.

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Like, the route table was fucked.

00:08:46.716 --> 00:08:47.657
Like, you could really tell.

00:08:49.899 --> 00:08:50.759
And so what ended up

00:08:50.778 --> 00:08:51.960
happening is that that route was down,

00:08:51.980 --> 00:08:53.301
so it was bumping everything else from,

00:08:53.341 --> 00:08:54.782
like, Paris to...

00:08:55.798 --> 00:08:56.580
dulles or something it was

00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:57.321
like their backup and

00:08:57.341 --> 00:08:58.802
that's that's that's where

00:08:58.861 --> 00:09:00.764
amsterdam runs um at least

00:09:00.823 --> 00:09:01.804
at least in nodes in the

00:09:01.884 --> 00:09:03.187
u.s just just because I

00:09:03.246 --> 00:09:04.567
don't actually know where

00:09:04.587 --> 00:09:06.190
the cables go did you say

00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:07.471
dulles because that is

00:09:07.672 --> 00:09:09.493
actually where it would be

00:09:09.573 --> 00:09:10.835
or did you say or did you

00:09:10.875 --> 00:09:12.076
say dulles purely because

00:09:12.096 --> 00:09:12.956
it's a reference to the

00:09:12.976 --> 00:09:14.619
question reroute the plane

00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:16.480
a lot I had a lot of time

00:09:17.727 --> 00:09:18.688
That was two, right?

00:09:19.408 --> 00:09:19.708
Or three?

00:09:19.729 --> 00:09:20.590
It's like Die Hard two.

00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:21.629
Yeah, they straight away,

00:09:22.330 --> 00:09:23.591
they reroute to Dallas.

00:09:23.610 --> 00:09:24.110
That was two, right?

00:09:24.370 --> 00:09:25.032
Yeah,

00:09:25.072 --> 00:09:26.091
because they take over the church

00:09:26.131 --> 00:09:27.253
outside the runway.

00:09:27.432 --> 00:09:30.475
Actually, from what I see,

00:09:31.274 --> 00:09:32.836
a lot of times when you have this routing,

00:09:32.875 --> 00:09:34.376
they still use airport codes.

00:09:35.317 --> 00:09:36.918
Not everywhere, but like in some vendors,

00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:38.440
they typically use error

00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:39.660
codes to be able to use that.

00:09:39.701 --> 00:09:43.222
I guess they do, don't they?

00:09:43.302 --> 00:09:43.524
Yeah,

00:09:43.604 --> 00:09:45.485
they use AMS and they use like IAD

00:09:45.504 --> 00:09:46.985
and they use EWR and

00:09:47.005 --> 00:09:47.767
they'll use stuff like that

00:09:48.086 --> 00:09:49.148
instead of like just typing it out,

00:09:50.288 --> 00:09:50.769
which is fine.

00:09:51.409 --> 00:09:52.309
But so anyway,

00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:54.331
so so but then they had

00:09:54.351 --> 00:09:55.793
another cut like in in in.

00:09:56.471 --> 00:09:57.191
Ireland or something and

00:09:57.250 --> 00:09:58.030
there's another one after

00:09:58.071 --> 00:09:58.711
that and there's another

00:09:58.751 --> 00:10:00.851
one and so and so we were

00:10:00.892 --> 00:10:01.751
joking that maybe that was

00:10:01.772 --> 00:10:02.451
just to get them in the

00:10:02.471 --> 00:10:03.273
channel so we can complain

00:10:03.293 --> 00:10:04.192
about fiber cuts but I

00:10:04.273 --> 00:10:05.893
don't think that was the

00:10:05.932 --> 00:10:06.692
guessing that was not the

00:10:06.732 --> 00:10:07.453
idea they were like they

00:10:07.474 --> 00:10:08.653
took it very literally and

00:10:08.734 --> 00:10:09.693
that's why they're in that

00:10:09.734 --> 00:10:11.494
yeah yeah I don't know I

00:10:11.533 --> 00:10:12.894
don't like that shit it's

00:10:12.955 --> 00:10:14.615
kind of annoying yeah I

00:10:14.634 --> 00:10:19.975
mean in general I I think

00:10:20.015 --> 00:10:22.177
there's even less um

00:10:24.104 --> 00:10:25.884
There's even less of a sense

00:10:25.965 --> 00:10:27.125
in which at the moment,

00:10:29.106 --> 00:10:29.767
one of my takeaways from

00:10:29.807 --> 00:10:32.067
con from conferences was there's, uh,

00:10:32.688 --> 00:10:33.788
the sense in which the detail,

00:10:33.828 --> 00:10:35.149
the decentralization stuff

00:10:35.210 --> 00:10:36.250
is now like fully

00:10:36.291 --> 00:10:38.371
performative and nobody's

00:10:38.392 --> 00:10:40.712
even pretending right.

00:10:40.793 --> 00:10:42.153
At conference behind the scenes,

00:10:42.214 --> 00:10:42.953
as soon as you strike up

00:10:43.014 --> 00:10:45.975
any conversation with anybody, um,

00:10:46.255 --> 00:10:48.116
whatever decentralization does mean.

00:10:49.285 --> 00:10:52.010
It is purely lip service at this point.

00:10:52.051 --> 00:10:52.893
And I think, you know,

00:10:52.993 --> 00:10:56.038
if that's in a semi open space, you know,

00:10:56.078 --> 00:10:58.344
there's, if there's used to be squeezed,

00:10:59.837 --> 00:11:02.039
not surprising is it um yeah

00:11:02.059 --> 00:11:05.462
particularly so um we have

00:11:05.482 --> 00:11:06.322
other what's the other fun

00:11:06.342 --> 00:11:07.443
stuff what we've been up to

00:11:07.484 --> 00:11:08.424
over this time it's been

00:11:08.445 --> 00:11:09.205
there's been a few test

00:11:09.225 --> 00:11:10.005
nets and things this summer

00:11:10.025 --> 00:11:10.846
haven't there there's been

00:11:10.866 --> 00:11:12.528
a lot yeah there's been a

00:11:12.548 --> 00:11:14.629
few uh we've been back

00:11:14.730 --> 00:11:15.590
we've been back on the test

00:11:15.610 --> 00:11:16.850
net grind a little bit but

00:11:17.011 --> 00:11:17.672
I imagine we're probably

00:11:17.692 --> 00:11:18.993
doing fewer than than you

00:11:19.033 --> 00:11:19.874
guys because you're

00:11:21.158 --> 00:11:22.178
you're still fully on it.

00:11:24.802 --> 00:11:25.224
We've, we've,

00:11:25.303 --> 00:11:26.225
we've updated our marketing

00:11:26.245 --> 00:11:27.225
materials to say that we're,

00:11:27.346 --> 00:11:30.551
we're selective, which is, you know what?

00:11:30.571 --> 00:11:31.312
That's a reference.

00:11:31.371 --> 00:11:31.491
Yeah.

00:11:31.511 --> 00:11:31.692
Yeah.

00:11:34.664 --> 00:11:35.666
It's a direct reference.

00:11:35.826 --> 00:11:36.806
It's very intentional.

00:11:36.846 --> 00:11:38.287
Nobody's yet picked up on it.

00:11:38.606 --> 00:11:39.488
We're selective.

00:11:40.067 --> 00:11:40.889
We're quite selective.

00:11:41.668 --> 00:11:42.649
We're very selective.

00:11:43.330 --> 00:11:44.831
We're just incredibly selective.

00:11:44.850 --> 00:11:46.871
That's why we don't

00:11:46.912 --> 00:11:47.773
sometimes take these

00:11:47.812 --> 00:11:49.533
incredibly potentially

00:11:49.594 --> 00:11:50.234
lucrative business

00:11:50.254 --> 00:11:50.854
opportunities that come our

00:11:50.874 --> 00:11:53.035
way because we're being more selective.

00:11:53.056 --> 00:11:59.879
But yeah, what have you guys been up to?

00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:01.480
Let's see.

00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:02.061
Go ahead, Shulte.

00:12:03.148 --> 00:12:04.028
We're doing SOC two training

00:12:04.128 --> 00:12:05.849
or certification.

00:12:06.349 --> 00:12:06.990
That's not fun.

00:12:07.169 --> 00:12:08.090
Let me tell you that right now.

00:12:08.990 --> 00:12:10.610
SOC two or ISO?

00:12:10.650 --> 00:12:11.091
SOC two.

00:12:11.591 --> 00:12:13.852
SOC two.

00:12:13.873 --> 00:12:14.793
Mostly because it's easier.

00:12:15.613 --> 00:12:17.134
And it does mostly the same thing.

00:12:17.874 --> 00:12:18.754
It is mostly the same thing.

00:12:18.955 --> 00:12:19.235
Yeah.

00:12:19.274 --> 00:12:20.995
No, we're, we're doing our ISO too.

00:12:21.035 --> 00:12:21.775
So we're in the middle of that.

00:12:21.796 --> 00:12:22.316
You're doing your ISA.

00:12:22.336 --> 00:12:22.416
Yeah.

00:12:22.956 --> 00:12:23.517
Yeah.

00:12:23.636 --> 00:12:24.017
Yeah.

00:12:24.057 --> 00:12:25.758
So we're, we're, I don't know.

00:12:26.238 --> 00:12:26.937
I would say.

00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:29.399
Fifty percent.

00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:30.500
Maybe.

00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:30.600
Yeah.

00:12:31.650 --> 00:12:34.091
Um, it's just, it's, which I, I mean,

00:12:34.111 --> 00:12:34.572
I don't know for you,

00:12:34.613 --> 00:12:37.813
but it hasn't been that challenging.

00:12:38.293 --> 00:12:39.174
I don't think like in the

00:12:39.195 --> 00:12:40.215
policy perspective and

00:12:40.254 --> 00:12:41.336
controls and things like that,

00:12:41.355 --> 00:12:43.456
a lot of that shit that we had and,

00:12:44.256 --> 00:12:45.258
and those types of things.

00:12:45.298 --> 00:12:46.958
So, so it's not too bad.

00:12:47.038 --> 00:12:48.239
The, the, obviously the,

00:12:48.359 --> 00:12:49.120
the big challenge with the

00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:50.519
stuff is always like is,

00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:51.841
is producing artifacts.

00:12:52.581 --> 00:12:52.961
Um, but,

00:12:53.361 --> 00:12:54.402
but so I'm running a lot of

00:12:54.422 --> 00:12:56.102
Ansible for that and we've

00:12:56.143 --> 00:12:58.583
done some other things related to, um,

00:12:58.604 --> 00:13:00.085
just kind of reworking some stuff with.

00:13:01.311 --> 00:13:03.832
with, like, just shit that I want to do,

00:13:04.133 --> 00:13:04.513
honestly.

00:13:04.673 --> 00:13:06.014
Like, stuff that, to me,

00:13:06.215 --> 00:13:07.355
doesn't really mean that much.

00:13:07.596 --> 00:13:09.216
But, like,

00:13:09.256 --> 00:13:10.697
we're using Waza to be able to

00:13:10.717 --> 00:13:12.499
do some stuff related to, like,

00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:15.442
CVE identification and shit like that.

00:13:15.522 --> 00:13:17.643
And just some stuff like that,

00:13:17.802 --> 00:13:18.884
which has been, I think,

00:13:18.923 --> 00:13:21.066
more of a hassle than real benefit to us.

00:13:23.707 --> 00:13:24.388
But away from that.

00:13:24.528 --> 00:13:26.750
Like, from the other side of it, like,

00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:27.370
it's been nice to...

00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:30.273
it's been nice to be forced to,

00:13:30.352 --> 00:13:33.754
to write some components that allow us to,

00:13:34.115 --> 00:13:35.996
to validate of what we say

00:13:36.037 --> 00:13:36.636
is true is true.

00:13:36.957 --> 00:13:37.557
And that's really kind of

00:13:37.577 --> 00:13:38.818
the whole point of that, that process.

00:13:38.839 --> 00:13:38.999
Right.

00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:40.701
So from that perspective, it's,

00:13:40.900 --> 00:13:41.441
it's been good.

00:13:42.182 --> 00:13:44.043
Um, and a lot of, I mean,

00:13:44.062 --> 00:13:44.864
thankfully we had a lot,

00:13:44.903 --> 00:13:46.745
like a lot of the,

00:13:46.825 --> 00:13:48.746
I'm sure you guys do too, but like with,

00:13:49.307 --> 00:13:52.109
with obviously with automation and with,

00:13:52.610 --> 00:13:52.710
uh,

00:13:53.806 --> 00:13:55.347
with overlay networks and

00:13:55.388 --> 00:13:56.068
with all these other types

00:13:56.089 --> 00:13:57.270
of things that we've been building for,

00:13:57.850 --> 00:13:59.833
for those years to be able

00:13:59.874 --> 00:14:02.496
to get to this next level of saying X, Y,

00:14:02.517 --> 00:14:03.739
or Z associated to those,

00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:05.500
to those policies.

00:14:05.640 --> 00:14:06.361
And what we want to do is

00:14:06.422 --> 00:14:07.783
actually pretty easy.

00:14:08.445 --> 00:14:09.566
So that, that part's really good.

00:14:09.826 --> 00:14:11.629
And, and just being, you know,

00:14:13.405 --> 00:14:14.025
like it's just all these

00:14:14.046 --> 00:14:14.606
little things that we've

00:14:14.626 --> 00:14:15.527
done over these last couple

00:14:15.547 --> 00:14:16.388
of years that have now

00:14:16.408 --> 00:14:17.347
started to add up into,

00:14:17.908 --> 00:14:19.208
into actually a pretty,

00:14:19.469 --> 00:14:22.169
a pretty decent ISO certification.

00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:24.510
So I don't like, I mean,

00:14:24.530 --> 00:14:25.432
we'll have to do it.

00:14:25.451 --> 00:14:26.611
We haven't done our internally yet.

00:14:26.631 --> 00:14:27.552
So we'll have to do internal,

00:14:27.753 --> 00:14:28.952
like maybe in Q four,

00:14:28.993 --> 00:14:30.214
maybe I'm hoping to do it

00:14:30.234 --> 00:14:31.495
maybe in October.

00:14:32.134 --> 00:14:32.875
And then we'll probably go

00:14:32.914 --> 00:14:34.375
for certification maybe in Q one,

00:14:34.635 --> 00:14:35.456
I think is probably what we do.

00:14:35.495 --> 00:14:36.177
I'm not really that much of

00:14:36.197 --> 00:14:36.736
a hurry actually.

00:14:37.833 --> 00:14:40.655
Uh, once I SMS gets built, really that's,

00:14:40.856 --> 00:14:41.537
that's the lift.

00:14:42.077 --> 00:14:43.057
Um, and then we're using it,

00:14:43.077 --> 00:14:43.818
we're using a cloud-based

00:14:43.839 --> 00:14:46.400
tool to actually put everything into, um,

00:14:46.881 --> 00:14:49.102
which is, which, yeah, we, I'm curious,

00:14:49.123 --> 00:14:49.524
we should talk about,

00:14:49.543 --> 00:14:50.203
we could talk about that too.

00:14:50.365 --> 00:14:51.605
I'm curious on what you picked.

00:14:52.046 --> 00:14:52.586
We haven't talked about it.

00:14:52.605 --> 00:14:52.765
Right.

00:14:52.826 --> 00:14:53.147
Cause we,

00:14:53.346 --> 00:14:54.347
we didn't really talk about tool

00:14:54.368 --> 00:14:55.187
sets or anything like that stuff.

00:14:55.849 --> 00:14:56.990
No, we didn't, we didn't talk about it.

00:14:57.691 --> 00:14:59.131
Um, so, so I have that,

00:14:59.172 --> 00:15:00.393
which we haven't done too much in yet.

00:15:00.793 --> 00:15:01.013
Um,

00:15:01.192 --> 00:15:02.715
other than like I'm pushing data there

00:15:02.735 --> 00:15:03.796
a little bit, but it's not that much.

00:15:04.615 --> 00:15:05.817
So I'm hoping that like,

00:15:05.897 --> 00:15:06.477
I think it's a good.

00:15:08.207 --> 00:15:09.327
It's a good milestone.

00:15:09.649 --> 00:15:11.028
It's not necessarily a differentiator,

00:15:11.129 --> 00:15:14.029
but it is for our size, I think.

00:15:16.230 --> 00:15:17.131
And I mean, honestly,

00:15:17.611 --> 00:15:19.011
ISO and SOC two and things like that,

00:15:19.032 --> 00:15:20.192
the smaller you are, the easier it is.

00:15:20.852 --> 00:15:21.513
It's really when you start

00:15:21.533 --> 00:15:22.793
getting into multi, I mean,

00:15:22.813 --> 00:15:23.933
you start having five or six,

00:15:24.094 --> 00:15:25.154
eight employees, ten employees,

00:15:25.195 --> 00:15:25.875
a hundred employees.

00:15:26.485 --> 00:15:27.225
That's when it becomes a

00:15:27.264 --> 00:15:28.265
real fucking pain in the ass.

00:15:28.946 --> 00:15:30.466
Well, even with just the three of us,

00:15:30.527 --> 00:15:32.307
it's really annoying to see that, oh,

00:15:32.326 --> 00:15:33.227
we need to put two-factor

00:15:33.248 --> 00:15:35.489
authentication on for whatever app.

00:15:36.288 --> 00:15:36.828
All right, guys,

00:15:36.889 --> 00:15:37.809
I'll send out the notification.

00:15:37.830 --> 00:15:38.629
And then three days later,

00:15:38.649 --> 00:15:39.309
they get around to it,

00:15:39.330 --> 00:15:40.390
which is totally fine and

00:15:40.410 --> 00:15:41.051
reasonable for them.

00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:42.071
But it's still like,

00:15:42.211 --> 00:15:43.851
suddenly I'm halted by this thing.

00:15:46.092 --> 00:15:47.192
And then having to do that

00:15:47.273 --> 00:15:48.453
ultimately over twenty or

00:15:48.494 --> 00:15:49.374
thirty different things.

00:15:51.774 --> 00:15:52.054
Yeah.

00:15:52.375 --> 00:15:53.535
You need quite a lot of

00:15:54.684 --> 00:15:55.706
really quite like a low

00:15:55.725 --> 00:15:56.787
footprint of things in

00:15:56.807 --> 00:15:57.988
order to make it somewhat

00:15:58.067 --> 00:16:01.311
easy and um I worked for a

00:16:01.331 --> 00:16:02.611
startup once when we went

00:16:02.631 --> 00:16:05.033
through that process and it

00:16:05.053 --> 00:16:05.734
was really really

00:16:05.774 --> 00:16:06.554
interesting because all the

00:16:06.575 --> 00:16:07.336
things I thought would

00:16:07.375 --> 00:16:08.557
happen as part of that

00:16:08.596 --> 00:16:12.539
process um kind of didn't

00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:14.301
really because we we moved

00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:15.682
away from a previous

00:16:15.741 --> 00:16:17.984
automation strategy into

00:16:19.133 --> 00:16:20.913
essentially a different like

00:16:20.972 --> 00:16:24.474
networking architecture and, you know,

00:16:24.533 --> 00:16:26.154
everything was kind of like recoverable,

00:16:26.315 --> 00:16:28.294
like via the AWS console

00:16:28.315 --> 00:16:28.754
and stuff like that.

00:16:28.774 --> 00:16:29.014
There were,

00:16:29.034 --> 00:16:30.576
there were ways of redeploying everything,

00:16:30.655 --> 00:16:32.895
but because of how things

00:16:32.916 --> 00:16:34.716
had moved with our clients and yada, yada,

00:16:34.736 --> 00:16:38.898
yada, um, it was actually like, um,

00:16:40.802 --> 00:16:41.462
What's the way it was?

00:16:42.003 --> 00:16:42.783
How would I describe what

00:16:42.864 --> 00:16:43.364
I'm trying to say?

00:16:43.423 --> 00:16:44.845
I guess like the system itself, like,

00:16:44.945 --> 00:16:46.125
or the, the, the way the,

00:16:46.826 --> 00:16:48.028
the way the estate, right.

00:16:48.048 --> 00:16:49.028
The technology estate of the

00:16:49.068 --> 00:16:51.211
company was set up was incredible flux.

00:16:51.451 --> 00:16:51.711
Right.

00:16:52.331 --> 00:16:54.212
And so a lot of,

00:16:54.692 --> 00:16:56.095
it was interesting to go

00:16:56.115 --> 00:16:57.895
through the process of getting the ISO,

00:16:57.916 --> 00:17:00.758
which we did get and sort of had,

00:17:00.798 --> 00:17:01.119
you know,

00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:02.320
a growing engineering team at

00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:03.380
the time and blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:17:03.921 --> 00:17:05.021
Um, but.

00:17:06.231 --> 00:17:07.553
know the actual kind of like

00:17:07.633 --> 00:17:08.534
what I would have called

00:17:08.554 --> 00:17:09.654
like you know the red tape

00:17:09.755 --> 00:17:11.256
and whatnot around it was

00:17:11.296 --> 00:17:13.657
like way way way smaller on

00:17:13.698 --> 00:17:15.419
probably average than some

00:17:15.459 --> 00:17:16.640
of the growing pains

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:17.721
companies that I'd been in

00:17:17.820 --> 00:17:19.442
that were having to start

00:17:19.481 --> 00:17:20.702
to do compliance stuff

00:17:20.742 --> 00:17:21.864
because their investors had

00:17:21.903 --> 00:17:23.204
told them to or blah blah

00:17:23.224 --> 00:17:24.266
blah blah or an external

00:17:24.326 --> 00:17:26.126
auditor it was really

00:17:26.166 --> 00:17:26.928
really interesting because

00:17:26.948 --> 00:17:27.647
there's some stuff where I

00:17:27.667 --> 00:17:29.249
was like surely we can't be

00:17:29.288 --> 00:17:30.911
compliant because of xyz

00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:32.941
that you kind of know about

00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:33.721
as a developer or an

00:17:33.761 --> 00:17:34.643
engineer or like there's

00:17:34.663 --> 00:17:35.383
something you know where

00:17:35.423 --> 00:17:36.944
like we don't really track

00:17:36.984 --> 00:17:38.666
this yeah but it's all

00:17:38.707 --> 00:17:39.587
about like you say it's

00:17:39.607 --> 00:17:40.669
kind of about the artifacts

00:17:40.689 --> 00:17:41.809
and the way you express it

00:17:41.829 --> 00:17:44.071
so um you know not to put

00:17:44.132 --> 00:17:45.173
people off who might be

00:17:45.212 --> 00:17:46.634
potential clients that are

00:17:47.075 --> 00:17:49.336
you know looking at iso and

00:17:49.396 --> 00:17:50.198
sock certified

00:17:50.258 --> 00:17:53.040
organizations because you know we we

00:17:55.292 --> 00:17:57.634
in this podcast take take

00:17:57.674 --> 00:17:58.476
such things very very

00:17:58.516 --> 00:18:00.258
seriously but but it is one

00:18:00.278 --> 00:18:00.758
of those things where

00:18:00.778 --> 00:18:03.381
you're like um there's also

00:18:03.421 --> 00:18:04.382
a process to it if you know

00:18:04.422 --> 00:18:05.323
the process there's a way

00:18:05.363 --> 00:18:07.984
of putting that together I

00:18:08.005 --> 00:18:09.425
think kind of take away

00:18:09.465 --> 00:18:10.267
from that is like the

00:18:10.287 --> 00:18:11.167
people who were kind of

00:18:11.587 --> 00:18:12.548
hand-holding us through it

00:18:13.250 --> 00:18:15.652
really knew how to be like

00:18:15.892 --> 00:18:17.294
oh they don't have a good answer for this

00:18:18.769 --> 00:18:20.088
Here's how you should approach that.

00:18:20.148 --> 00:18:21.470
Yeah.

00:18:21.509 --> 00:18:22.809
Well, I mean,

00:18:23.049 --> 00:18:24.230
the funny thing about these types of,

00:18:24.290 --> 00:18:24.951
I mean, I did this,

00:18:25.171 --> 00:18:27.211
I did this at a previous business that we,

00:18:27.251 --> 00:18:27.672
we did.

00:18:27.692 --> 00:18:28.652
And, um,

00:18:28.672 --> 00:18:29.771
I don't even know what the hell

00:18:29.791 --> 00:18:31.772
year was maybe five, six years ago.

00:18:32.853 --> 00:18:33.192
And,

00:18:33.692 --> 00:18:34.733
and then we started the process even

00:18:34.773 --> 00:18:36.513
before that we started one back in.

00:18:39.301 --> 00:18:40.663
Um, and like, it's,

00:18:40.722 --> 00:18:42.604
it's obviously evolved a lot, um,

00:18:42.765 --> 00:18:44.425
early on, like even like, I mean,

00:18:44.546 --> 00:18:45.807
fifteen years ago or ten years ago,

00:18:45.886 --> 00:18:46.326
it was,

00:18:47.007 --> 00:18:48.327
it was much more challenging

00:18:48.367 --> 00:18:50.430
because everything was much more manual.

00:18:50.710 --> 00:18:54.432
Um, and, and now, um,

00:18:54.752 --> 00:18:55.272
and the one thing about,

00:18:55.532 --> 00:18:56.253
one thing about these tool

00:18:56.273 --> 00:18:57.815
sets and like this whole process is like,

00:18:58.434 --> 00:18:59.675
just because somebody's ISO

00:18:59.715 --> 00:19:00.717
certified or SOC two,

00:19:00.797 --> 00:19:01.958
it actually doesn't mean they're secure.

00:19:03.481 --> 00:19:04.363
It just means you have the

00:19:04.403 --> 00:19:05.463
processes in place to

00:19:05.544 --> 00:19:06.705
identify where there's

00:19:06.766 --> 00:19:07.787
issues and you have the

00:19:07.846 --> 00:19:09.568
processes in place to solve those issues.

00:19:09.608 --> 00:19:11.511
And you have the proof that there's a,

00:19:11.531 --> 00:19:12.653
that all these things kind

00:19:12.673 --> 00:19:13.574
of come together to be able

00:19:13.594 --> 00:19:14.875
to have a continuous improvement.

00:19:15.336 --> 00:19:17.058
Could you have a,

00:19:17.919 --> 00:19:20.980
open SSH port somewhere and it's admin,

00:19:21.020 --> 00:19:21.340
admin,

00:19:21.441 --> 00:19:23.761
you totally could and still be SOC

00:19:23.781 --> 00:19:24.323
two compliant.

00:19:24.343 --> 00:19:27.203
The question is like over time,

00:19:27.525 --> 00:19:29.326
do you have a process in

00:19:29.346 --> 00:19:30.385
place to identify that?

00:19:30.987 --> 00:19:32.126
Did that identification turn

00:19:32.146 --> 00:19:32.887
into something that was an

00:19:32.988 --> 00:19:33.688
actionable item?

00:19:33.988 --> 00:19:34.828
Did somebody assign to that

00:19:34.888 --> 00:19:35.509
actionable item?

00:19:35.628 --> 00:19:36.369
Did somebody complete that

00:19:36.430 --> 00:19:36.990
actionable item?

00:19:37.230 --> 00:19:37.990
Did somebody test that?

00:19:38.090 --> 00:19:38.530
Blah, blah, blah.

00:19:39.362 --> 00:19:40.262
Um, and that's what, that's,

00:19:40.282 --> 00:19:41.502
what's a funny thing about that.

00:19:41.583 --> 00:19:41.722
And,

00:19:41.903 --> 00:19:42.683
and like a lot of people don't

00:19:42.723 --> 00:19:43.963
understand what these certifications are.

00:19:43.983 --> 00:19:45.224
It's not really like a, Hey,

00:19:45.244 --> 00:19:45.984
you're secure as shit.

00:19:46.045 --> 00:19:46.404
It's really,

00:19:46.986 --> 00:19:48.346
it's really the process work of it.

00:19:48.685 --> 00:19:50.747
Um, and so like I was, well,

00:19:50.826 --> 00:19:51.847
my point was like, ten years ago,

00:19:51.867 --> 00:19:52.387
that was a fucking

00:19:52.407 --> 00:19:53.107
nightmare because

00:19:53.548 --> 00:19:54.328
everything was in Excel.

00:19:55.569 --> 00:19:56.770
You had really no tools

00:19:56.832 --> 00:19:58.913
available to really manage

00:19:58.933 --> 00:19:59.775
these types of things.

00:20:00.016 --> 00:20:01.397
You had nothing automated to do that.

00:20:02.538 --> 00:20:03.119
And now with these,

00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:04.141
like there's so much work

00:20:04.161 --> 00:20:06.324
on these platform tools to

00:20:06.384 --> 00:20:07.184
actually go out to cloud

00:20:07.345 --> 00:20:09.208
vendors or we have one that

00:20:09.268 --> 00:20:10.690
takes an API so we can send like,

00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:12.130
Ansible JSON, you know,

00:20:12.269 --> 00:20:13.529
formatted JSON to it for,

00:20:13.650 --> 00:20:14.830
for proof on certain things.

00:20:14.871 --> 00:20:14.971
And,

00:20:16.392 --> 00:20:17.613
and that type of stuff that really

00:20:17.653 --> 00:20:18.732
takes a lot of the burden off.

00:20:18.752 --> 00:20:19.493
Cause that's really what I

00:20:19.513 --> 00:20:20.554
was worried about was like

00:20:20.594 --> 00:20:22.596
this whole fucking, you know,

00:20:23.135 --> 00:20:24.696
like I don't want to spend more time on,

00:20:26.128 --> 00:20:28.130
improving the work than doing the work,

00:20:28.250 --> 00:20:29.569
which is always one of those concerns.

00:20:30.371 --> 00:20:31.830
Um, but at least, at least now,

00:20:31.911 --> 00:20:33.291
like there's so much, there's,

00:20:33.311 --> 00:20:34.071
there's a lot of work here.

00:20:34.092 --> 00:20:35.373
Cause I think a lot of these

00:20:35.393 --> 00:20:36.173
vendors realized how

00:20:36.232 --> 00:20:37.232
painful that process was

00:20:37.252 --> 00:20:38.913
and everything else associated to it.

00:20:38.953 --> 00:20:40.835
So, yeah, I, I, I agree.

00:20:41.255 --> 00:20:42.174
Um, the tools that,

00:20:42.494 --> 00:20:43.195
that they use nowadays

00:20:43.215 --> 00:20:44.776
where we can just plug in.

00:20:45.256 --> 00:20:45.476
Yeah.

00:20:45.876 --> 00:20:48.417
Your bare metal providers to prove that.

00:20:49.097 --> 00:20:49.258
Right.

00:20:49.798 --> 00:20:51.038
they're SOC two certified already.

00:20:51.058 --> 00:20:51.859
So therefore you don't need

00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:53.540
to like cover their ass

00:20:53.560 --> 00:20:54.241
with your documents,

00:20:54.261 --> 00:20:56.263
whatever is really nice.

00:20:56.483 --> 00:20:58.786
I began the process in a

00:20:58.826 --> 00:21:02.009
previous company of SOC two certification,

00:21:02.048 --> 00:21:02.809
but I'm believing before

00:21:02.829 --> 00:21:03.509
they actually got it.

00:21:03.931 --> 00:21:04.730
And man,

00:21:04.852 --> 00:21:06.373
that was it was it was really cumbersome.

00:21:06.393 --> 00:21:07.913
I think I was twenty eighteen,

00:21:07.993 --> 00:21:08.474
I want to say.

00:21:09.715 --> 00:21:10.316
And so I just kind of

00:21:10.355 --> 00:21:11.517
dreaded having to go through myself.

00:21:11.537 --> 00:21:12.397
But with the toolings that

00:21:12.417 --> 00:21:13.798
are available nowadays, it's

00:21:14.963 --> 00:21:16.845
One, I'll say it's much nicer, but two,

00:21:16.944 --> 00:21:17.424
it makes it,

00:21:18.365 --> 00:21:19.326
I don't want to say more fun

00:21:19.486 --> 00:21:20.625
to complete it, but it makes it,

00:21:21.205 --> 00:21:21.986
it almost makes it more

00:21:22.026 --> 00:21:25.407
difficult to have messed up

00:21:25.448 --> 00:21:27.067
machines by using these

00:21:27.107 --> 00:21:29.288
tools or massive processes

00:21:29.328 --> 00:21:30.489
because they prove it.

00:21:30.509 --> 00:21:32.509
And then you're like, oh yeah, okay.

00:21:33.109 --> 00:21:34.050
I can resolve this.

00:21:34.111 --> 00:21:35.310
And then going forward,

00:21:35.371 --> 00:21:37.632
I now know like how to look

00:21:37.692 --> 00:21:39.011
into it in the future.

00:21:39.432 --> 00:21:40.673
And I think that's a big part of it.

00:21:40.692 --> 00:21:42.313
It's just like that you've

00:21:42.373 --> 00:21:44.094
gone ahead and reviewed everything.

00:21:45.522 --> 00:21:46.584
gives you perspective on how

00:21:46.644 --> 00:21:47.805
it should be handled in the future.

00:21:48.045 --> 00:21:48.305
I mean,

00:21:48.325 --> 00:21:49.286
it's kind of like studying for a test,

00:21:49.326 --> 00:21:49.566
right?

00:21:49.946 --> 00:21:51.268
Studying for a test is like

00:21:51.327 --> 00:21:52.228
in creating a note card.

00:21:52.489 --> 00:21:53.209
Creating the note card

00:21:53.269 --> 00:21:54.951
doesn't probably actually

00:21:54.971 --> 00:21:55.451
do anything for you.

00:21:55.471 --> 00:21:56.471
You're probably not gonna reference it.

00:21:56.932 --> 00:21:58.773
But in creating a note card, you then have,

00:21:59.534 --> 00:21:59.814
you know,

00:22:00.214 --> 00:22:01.536
committed more to memory and the

00:22:01.596 --> 00:22:02.557
correct way to do things.

00:22:03.336 --> 00:22:03.857
Yeah, for sure.

00:22:04.397 --> 00:22:06.599
So yeah, so that's a big thing, right?

00:22:07.875 --> 00:22:08.536
It's a lot of work there.

00:22:08.576 --> 00:22:11.698
You've done a good job of

00:22:11.778 --> 00:22:13.700
selling me the idea of SOC too.

00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:16.061
I don't know.

00:22:16.082 --> 00:22:17.843
So the thing that I was joking about doing,

00:22:18.284 --> 00:22:20.585
which is a lot less useful,

00:22:20.644 --> 00:22:22.126
is I was joking about going

00:22:22.146 --> 00:22:23.667
for B Corp certification.

00:22:24.429 --> 00:22:25.829
It's also cheaper than it used to be.

00:22:26.230 --> 00:22:27.510
It was fifty some odd

00:22:27.550 --> 00:22:28.332
thousand dollars in like

00:22:28.352 --> 00:22:32.394
twenty eighteen at a pretty early point.

00:22:33.736 --> 00:22:34.576
It's much cheaper now,

00:22:35.076 --> 00:22:35.837
including the audit.

00:22:36.932 --> 00:22:37.892
Yeah.

00:22:37.971 --> 00:22:39.113
I mean, they still take their,

00:22:39.153 --> 00:22:40.873
they still fucking take their, yeah.

00:22:40.952 --> 00:22:41.133
Yeah.

00:22:41.153 --> 00:22:42.153
That's still quite a lot of money.

00:22:42.212 --> 00:22:42.973
I mean, for us,

00:22:43.054 --> 00:22:44.294
I think at the moment we

00:22:45.253 --> 00:22:47.875
probably don't like just financially,

00:22:47.914 --> 00:22:48.855
I don't think it adds up

00:22:48.934 --> 00:22:50.816
unless a client was like, yo,

00:22:50.855 --> 00:22:54.797
you need sock too.

00:22:54.896 --> 00:22:56.596
I've had one conversation in

00:22:56.678 --> 00:22:58.758
the last year that has requested it.

00:22:58.778 --> 00:23:00.558
Really?

00:23:00.578 --> 00:23:01.019
Yeah.

00:23:01.058 --> 00:23:01.439
Maybe two.

00:23:03.685 --> 00:23:04.625
or at least asked about it,

00:23:05.406 --> 00:23:06.886
usually I'm bringing that up, right?

00:23:06.906 --> 00:23:08.007
Like that we are headed down

00:23:08.027 --> 00:23:08.807
this path and this is

00:23:08.827 --> 00:23:09.548
something that we bring.

00:23:10.807 --> 00:23:11.508
I am expecting,

00:23:11.807 --> 00:23:12.568
like we can get into

00:23:12.608 --> 00:23:13.509
regulation and everything else.

00:23:13.528 --> 00:23:14.808
I am expecting that change.

00:23:15.028 --> 00:23:17.849
Like, I do think that like, as like, it is,

00:23:17.990 --> 00:23:19.770
it is a leading indicator that in that,

00:23:19.931 --> 00:23:20.111
like,

00:23:20.191 --> 00:23:21.351
we're going to get more questions

00:23:21.671 --> 00:23:22.230
related to that.

00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:23.412
And I think as the assets

00:23:23.451 --> 00:23:24.132
increase and as a

00:23:24.172 --> 00:23:25.791
visibility increase and blah, blah, blah,

00:23:25.811 --> 00:23:26.873
like it's going to turn into something,

00:23:26.913 --> 00:23:28.173
which is totally fine.

00:23:28.232 --> 00:23:29.093
I'm okay with that.

00:23:29.113 --> 00:23:30.354
Cause I think we run a good ship.

00:23:30.374 --> 00:23:31.034
So I'm okay.

00:23:31.594 --> 00:23:32.695
I like for that to happen

00:23:32.736 --> 00:23:33.717
because I actually think

00:23:33.777 --> 00:23:34.577
that's a benefit to us.

00:23:34.617 --> 00:23:36.079
But but up until today,

00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:37.320
in terms of August twenty twenty five,

00:23:37.361 --> 00:23:39.344
it very rarely comes up.

00:23:40.305 --> 00:23:41.306
Even with like even like

00:23:41.566 --> 00:23:42.867
capital managers and things like that,

00:23:42.907 --> 00:23:44.710
like they're there.

00:23:44.730 --> 00:23:46.172
It's not that big of a concern.

00:23:46.192 --> 00:23:47.232
They're more concerned about

00:23:47.653 --> 00:23:49.134
there's good technical

00:23:49.174 --> 00:23:49.996
questions and things like that,

00:23:50.016 --> 00:23:50.876
but it's not so much around

00:23:50.916 --> 00:23:51.417
certification.

00:23:52.307 --> 00:23:52.547
Well,

00:23:52.666 --> 00:23:53.807
I'd also add that there have been a

00:23:53.826 --> 00:23:54.708
couple of people that we've

00:23:54.788 --> 00:23:55.968
chatted with that had their

00:23:56.067 --> 00:23:59.088
own like security questionnaire in order.

00:23:59.229 --> 00:23:59.769
Oh, yeah.

00:24:00.148 --> 00:24:01.308
So like they didn't care

00:24:01.328 --> 00:24:02.630
about whether you're certified.

00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:04.529
They have their own like questionnaire.

00:24:04.549 --> 00:24:04.930
You have to work.

00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:05.431
Sure, sure, sure.

00:24:05.611 --> 00:24:06.790
Yeah, I think it makes total sense,

00:24:06.851 --> 00:24:08.510
but it's quite interesting as well.

00:24:08.570 --> 00:24:08.830
By the way,

00:24:08.851 --> 00:24:09.672
can we talk about how fucking

00:24:09.872 --> 00:24:11.471
AI is about that?

00:24:11.491 --> 00:24:13.633
Do you guys do so like.

00:24:14.795 --> 00:24:16.736
I, I, we use Claude a lot, right?

00:24:16.796 --> 00:24:18.816
I use Claude like for, for Anthropic.

00:24:18.836 --> 00:24:19.757
So you can build like

00:24:19.777 --> 00:24:20.977
projects and shit like that, which is,

00:24:21.017 --> 00:24:22.176
so I've dumped,

00:24:22.657 --> 00:24:24.337
so a small nice little project,

00:24:24.597 --> 00:24:26.398
all of our like website information,

00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:27.519
all other security things

00:24:27.538 --> 00:24:28.239
that we've answered in the

00:24:28.278 --> 00:24:30.279
past are ISO docs in there.

00:24:31.300 --> 00:24:33.102
um like all this shit like

00:24:33.122 --> 00:24:34.943
just in this giant like

00:24:35.044 --> 00:24:37.346
repo of shit and so I fill

00:24:37.365 --> 00:24:37.986
out those questionnaires

00:24:38.026 --> 00:24:39.186
all the time and so now I'm

00:24:39.247 --> 00:24:40.728
using like those tools to

00:24:40.768 --> 00:24:42.329
like do a first cut at

00:24:42.349 --> 00:24:44.191
those holy fuck are those

00:24:44.211 --> 00:24:46.272
things awesome like like

00:24:46.313 --> 00:24:47.693
it's that's smart dude it's

00:24:47.854 --> 00:24:49.055
pulling it's pulling shit

00:24:49.095 --> 00:24:50.016
out of the woodwork I was

00:24:50.036 --> 00:24:50.757
like oh yeah I didn't think

00:24:50.797 --> 00:24:52.198
about that and like just

00:24:52.636 --> 00:24:53.877
bam bam bam like it's been

00:24:54.097 --> 00:24:55.279
really really good and like

00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:56.881
it comes off a little ai so

00:24:57.040 --> 00:24:58.201
I basically like rewrite

00:24:58.221 --> 00:24:59.923
all that shit but but still

00:24:59.963 --> 00:25:01.224
like it's that that has

00:25:01.244 --> 00:25:03.007
been also a huge change for

00:25:03.047 --> 00:25:03.867
us over the summer break

00:25:03.887 --> 00:25:05.368
which is like summer break

00:25:05.709 --> 00:25:07.171
which has been like trying

00:25:07.230 --> 00:25:09.192
to uh uh use those tools a

00:25:09.212 --> 00:25:10.294
little more just to pull

00:25:10.314 --> 00:25:11.134
all this data together and

00:25:11.174 --> 00:25:11.775
actually build like

00:25:11.815 --> 00:25:12.675
reasonable answers to some

00:25:12.695 --> 00:25:13.297
of these types of things

00:25:13.317 --> 00:25:14.298
it's been it's been pretty

00:25:14.357 --> 00:25:15.638
awesome should totally do that

00:25:17.622 --> 00:25:18.602
That's a really good idea.

00:25:18.662 --> 00:25:20.042
Writing on your own is miserable.

00:25:20.222 --> 00:25:24.066
And then ISO docs, website information,

00:25:24.946 --> 00:25:28.048
other proposals that we've written, MSAs,

00:25:28.749 --> 00:25:33.373
NDAs, GitHub, a repo,

00:25:34.673 --> 00:25:36.335
just pulling that stuff together.

00:25:36.394 --> 00:25:38.957
Because the context window,

00:25:38.977 --> 00:25:39.977
for a specific question,

00:25:40.417 --> 00:25:41.097
there might be fifty

00:25:41.117 --> 00:25:41.718
different things that come

00:25:41.738 --> 00:25:43.058
together to build a smart

00:25:43.098 --> 00:25:43.799
answer to those questions.

00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:44.961
And that's been really good.

00:25:46.606 --> 00:25:48.490
And it's not so much like a, it's,

00:25:48.691 --> 00:25:49.752
it's not so much like,

00:25:50.212 --> 00:25:51.194
it's not so much like it's a,

00:25:51.476 --> 00:25:52.136
it's not a cheat.

00:25:52.156 --> 00:25:53.839
Like it's just that like

00:25:53.859 --> 00:25:55.682
trying to answer that as an individual,

00:25:56.344 --> 00:25:57.226
you just forget about these

00:25:57.246 --> 00:25:58.327
other kinds of components of that.

00:25:58.367 --> 00:25:59.148
And, and that,

00:25:59.846 --> 00:26:00.287
that's a,

00:26:00.307 --> 00:26:01.188
that's a really good use for

00:26:01.208 --> 00:26:01.807
those tools where it

00:26:01.827 --> 00:26:02.848
actually brings all that context in.

00:26:02.868 --> 00:26:02.989
Yeah.

00:26:03.628 --> 00:26:03.729
Well,

00:26:03.749 --> 00:26:05.631
there were like a lot of times what

00:26:05.671 --> 00:26:06.830
people are really looking for.

00:26:07.311 --> 00:26:09.153
And again, like startups,

00:26:09.192 --> 00:26:10.673
if you try to sell into a big company,

00:26:11.453 --> 00:26:12.234
the reason they want to

00:26:12.255 --> 00:26:13.335
talk to your compliance

00:26:13.394 --> 00:26:14.195
person is because they're

00:26:14.215 --> 00:26:15.817
trying to find out how big your team is.

00:26:15.876 --> 00:26:17.438
Like it's a lot of it is

00:26:17.458 --> 00:26:18.678
just smoke and mirrors for

00:26:18.698 --> 00:26:20.138
them asking the question,

00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:23.761
are you going to be around in two years?

00:26:23.882 --> 00:26:24.481
Are you going to be able to

00:26:24.501 --> 00:26:25.403
service this contract?

00:26:25.462 --> 00:26:26.383
Will it hang together?

00:26:26.942 --> 00:26:27.523
And yeah,

00:26:28.243 --> 00:26:29.345
If you're a smaller player

00:26:29.365 --> 00:26:30.365
in any of these markets,

00:26:30.384 --> 00:26:31.506
you have this kind of

00:26:33.787 --> 00:26:35.007
instant penalization for

00:26:35.027 --> 00:26:35.948
being a smaller player

00:26:36.008 --> 00:26:37.548
where just the overhead of

00:26:37.587 --> 00:26:38.709
coming up with the correct

00:26:38.808 --> 00:26:39.648
answers or whatever.

00:26:39.689 --> 00:26:40.630
So, I mean, yeah, sure.

00:26:40.690 --> 00:26:42.150
It's a really good use of the technology.

00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:44.371
And the thing I always used

00:26:44.391 --> 00:26:45.571
to find quite funny because

00:26:45.592 --> 00:26:47.093
I've been on both sides of

00:26:47.133 --> 00:26:48.692
that where tendering on the

00:26:48.732 --> 00:26:50.034
perspective of a large company.

00:26:50.826 --> 00:26:52.448
retailer in the uk but also

00:26:52.867 --> 00:26:53.929
trying to get those kind of

00:26:53.949 --> 00:26:56.171
people to pay us right on

00:26:56.230 --> 00:26:57.192
different different

00:26:57.231 --> 00:26:58.133
companies different times

00:26:59.634 --> 00:27:00.914
and I I would used to find

00:27:00.954 --> 00:27:02.256
that the whole thing like

00:27:02.616 --> 00:27:04.178
um a little bit bizarre

00:27:04.238 --> 00:27:06.420
right because the answer to

00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:07.681
a lot of the concerns of

00:27:07.721 --> 00:27:08.942
like oh well if we make you

00:27:08.961 --> 00:27:11.825
a business critical part of xyz and um

00:27:13.624 --> 00:27:13.884
you know,

00:27:14.084 --> 00:27:14.825
we want to know you're going to

00:27:14.845 --> 00:27:15.305
be around.

00:27:15.404 --> 00:27:16.085
It's kind of like, well,

00:27:16.404 --> 00:27:17.826
write the fucking agreement properly,

00:27:17.945 --> 00:27:19.567
pay us properly and it will

00:27:19.606 --> 00:27:20.247
fucking happen.

00:27:20.287 --> 00:27:20.507
Right.

00:27:20.946 --> 00:27:22.508
Like this is really straightforward stuff.

00:27:22.548 --> 00:27:22.748
Right.

00:27:23.028 --> 00:27:24.128
Because if it's just like, you know,

00:27:24.169 --> 00:27:24.588
if it's a,

00:27:25.088 --> 00:27:26.450
like a pure B to B play and

00:27:26.509 --> 00:27:27.809
they have ten thousand clients,

00:27:27.829 --> 00:27:28.971
seven hundred thousand clients, whatever,

00:27:28.990 --> 00:27:30.070
it's like Salesforce or something.

00:27:30.090 --> 00:27:30.592
It's like, well, yeah,

00:27:30.612 --> 00:27:31.451
they're going to be around.

00:27:31.811 --> 00:27:32.972
Their pricing model is very different.

00:27:33.032 --> 00:27:33.673
Yada, yada, yada.

00:27:34.432 --> 00:27:35.653
And I've worked for companies that were

00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:37.902
trying to do volume right

00:27:38.001 --> 00:27:38.521
and you're kind of like

00:27:38.541 --> 00:27:39.864
yeah okay that's actually a

00:27:39.884 --> 00:27:40.964
reasonable concern if you

00:27:41.025 --> 00:27:42.346
have a company of like

00:27:42.385 --> 00:27:43.707
twenty employees that are

00:27:43.727 --> 00:27:44.647
trying to do the volume

00:27:44.688 --> 00:27:46.329
play the twenty employees

00:27:46.349 --> 00:27:47.290
isn't very much and they're

00:27:47.351 --> 00:27:48.451
burning through capital

00:27:48.471 --> 00:27:49.051
they're burning through

00:27:49.092 --> 00:27:50.453
money on salaries blah blah

00:27:50.473 --> 00:27:52.174
blah you know I can kind of

00:27:52.194 --> 00:27:53.376
see that but if you have

00:27:53.396 --> 00:27:54.337
like some of the outfits I

00:27:54.377 --> 00:27:56.298
work for it's a lean shop it's

00:27:57.215 --> 00:27:58.336
between two and five

00:27:58.396 --> 00:27:59.616
permanent employees plus

00:27:59.636 --> 00:28:01.597
contractors yeah like yeah

00:28:01.637 --> 00:28:02.659
similar kind of setup that

00:28:02.699 --> 00:28:03.779
all of us are running right

00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:05.661
you're like that shit is so

00:28:05.701 --> 00:28:07.080
fucking lean that they can

00:28:07.141 --> 00:28:08.602
run for a year on no profit

00:28:08.642 --> 00:28:09.542
if they need to right

00:28:10.222 --> 00:28:11.263
they're not we're not going

00:28:11.423 --> 00:28:12.864
anywhere as long as you pay

00:28:12.964 --> 00:28:14.365
us like it's very very

00:28:14.424 --> 00:28:17.527
straightforward um and you

00:28:17.547 --> 00:28:18.247
know it's funnily enough

00:28:18.307 --> 00:28:19.448
actually in a shop of that

00:28:19.488 --> 00:28:20.568
size we did work for like

00:28:20.588 --> 00:28:21.328
the british government

00:28:21.348 --> 00:28:22.009
scottish government or

00:28:22.048 --> 00:28:24.270
whatever because um

00:28:25.426 --> 00:28:26.269
It turns out once you fill

00:28:26.288 --> 00:28:27.471
in that form once, right?

00:28:27.771 --> 00:28:29.736
And one of the CEOs of the

00:28:29.776 --> 00:28:30.978
company was very sensible

00:28:31.038 --> 00:28:32.141
about how they managed

00:28:32.954 --> 00:28:34.355
not repeating work they

00:28:34.375 --> 00:28:36.017
basically managed to to do

00:28:36.076 --> 00:28:37.317
it once and then get away

00:28:37.337 --> 00:28:38.479
with not having to do it

00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:39.519
for a couple more years

00:28:39.538 --> 00:28:41.201
yeah doing work for

00:28:41.260 --> 00:28:42.300
multiple departments of

00:28:42.340 --> 00:28:43.201
government and that was

00:28:43.241 --> 00:28:44.522
like huge for that company

00:28:44.682 --> 00:28:45.784
as I understand it I might

00:28:45.804 --> 00:28:46.624
have simplified that or

00:28:46.663 --> 00:28:47.585
slightly misunderstood it

00:28:47.884 --> 00:28:49.046
so apologies to those guys

00:28:49.165 --> 00:28:50.165
if they ever watch this and

00:28:50.185 --> 00:28:51.106
they go that's not what we

00:28:51.146 --> 00:28:54.568
did um but you to be clear

00:28:54.608 --> 00:28:56.411
to them if they ever do watch this

00:28:57.090 --> 00:28:57.971
It seemed like you did a

00:28:58.051 --> 00:28:59.172
really good job of punching

00:28:59.192 --> 00:28:59.811
above your weight.

00:28:59.872 --> 00:29:00.932
That's what I'm trying to say.

00:29:00.952 --> 00:29:01.893
Good job.

00:29:01.993 --> 00:29:03.433
I wish I was as smart as you guys.

00:29:04.694 --> 00:29:05.935
But like anything,

00:29:06.375 --> 00:29:07.135
now it kind of seems

00:29:07.175 --> 00:29:08.856
like... I'm not saying that

00:29:08.876 --> 00:29:10.417
what you've done isn't smart,

00:29:10.498 --> 00:29:12.939
but you don't have to plan

00:29:12.979 --> 00:29:14.359
several steps ahead other

00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.519
than making sure you

00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:16.760
collect that documentation

00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:17.781
and then use the tools to

00:29:18.122 --> 00:29:19.142
then synthesize it.

00:29:19.182 --> 00:29:20.403
Something that has your past...

00:29:21.707 --> 00:29:22.727
the institutional knowledge

00:29:22.767 --> 00:29:23.827
of your company, right.

00:29:24.228 --> 00:29:24.448
Right.

00:29:24.627 --> 00:29:26.228
Preserved, which is really powerful.

00:29:26.248 --> 00:29:26.868
Yeah.

00:29:27.489 --> 00:29:27.888
It's been good.

00:29:27.909 --> 00:29:29.528
I have to say.

00:29:30.210 --> 00:29:32.089
Romer series says the goodbye episode.

00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:33.170
Number one, it's not the goodbye episode.

00:29:33.190 --> 00:29:34.750
It's just, we're just off summer break.

00:29:34.790 --> 00:29:35.151
That's all.

00:29:35.211 --> 00:29:35.871
Hello episode.

00:29:36.411 --> 00:29:36.971
Yeah.

00:29:36.991 --> 00:29:37.932
Without the Aussie.

00:29:38.672 --> 00:29:39.612
No, can't be here today.

00:29:39.672 --> 00:29:41.252
Although he is calling me right now.

00:29:41.432 --> 00:29:42.752
Let me conference him in real quick.

00:29:44.074 --> 00:29:47.615
Bloody hell.

00:29:47.654 --> 00:29:48.634
I'm sweating here.

00:29:49.625 --> 00:29:50.086
All right.

00:29:50.125 --> 00:29:54.452
That's it.

00:29:54.492 --> 00:29:55.034
Lovely stuff.

00:29:55.275 --> 00:29:55.634
That's great.

00:29:58.330 --> 00:29:58.510
Yeah,

00:29:58.530 --> 00:30:00.011
so the real reason Mel's not here is

00:30:00.211 --> 00:30:01.313
because childcare

00:30:01.333 --> 00:30:02.554
responsibilities overlap

00:30:02.574 --> 00:30:03.394
with filming time.

00:30:03.474 --> 00:30:04.296
We haven't quite managed to

00:30:04.336 --> 00:30:06.356
figure it out yet.

00:30:06.436 --> 00:30:07.278
And crucially,

00:30:07.478 --> 00:30:08.117
as we were talking about

00:30:08.137 --> 00:30:09.078
just before the show,

00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:10.980
we decided to come back off

00:30:11.020 --> 00:30:12.101
summer break just in time

00:30:12.141 --> 00:30:13.923
for me to have my second child.

00:30:16.424 --> 00:30:17.525
We had on the podcast before

00:30:17.545 --> 00:30:18.266
where I was totally

00:30:18.306 --> 00:30:19.586
exhausted every time we did this.

00:30:21.087 --> 00:30:21.607
I swear to God,

00:30:21.647 --> 00:30:23.490
somewhere in these transcripts,

00:30:23.589 --> 00:30:24.990
I said that kids ruin everything.

00:30:25.855 --> 00:30:26.895
Somewhere in these transcripts.

00:30:27.096 --> 00:30:29.356
And it's proven itself here

00:30:30.136 --> 00:30:30.696
on Game of Notes.

00:30:31.498 --> 00:30:32.317
Bullish indicators.

00:30:33.458 --> 00:30:34.678
Everybody's nodding positively.

00:30:35.459 --> 00:30:36.338
Tulsi's like, hell yeah.

00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:40.160
We still get woken up every hour,

00:30:40.339 --> 00:30:41.619
every single night.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.240
Oh, and Tulsi was at my house.

00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:45.080
That's also happened over

00:30:45.101 --> 00:30:45.721
the summer break.

00:30:45.761 --> 00:30:46.321
How about that?

00:30:46.342 --> 00:30:46.882
That was fun.

00:30:47.162 --> 00:30:49.362
I'm sad you didn't get to meet Mr. Baby.

00:30:49.863 --> 00:30:50.782
I know.

00:30:50.863 --> 00:30:51.063
Us too.

00:30:53.022 --> 00:30:53.282
Little,

00:30:53.323 --> 00:30:59.038
little baby Monad testnet to little baby,

00:30:59.198 --> 00:30:59.980
little baby apto suite.

00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:04.659
Yeah, that's great.

00:31:04.679 --> 00:31:05.199
I was trying to tell

00:31:05.219 --> 00:31:06.039
somebody that you didn't

00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:08.461
think about Doquan naming his child Luna.

00:31:08.540 --> 00:31:10.342
I was telling somebody about that.

00:31:10.382 --> 00:31:11.561
No, it was in chat.

00:31:11.582 --> 00:31:13.323
We were talking about it, right?

00:31:13.403 --> 00:31:15.044
No, it came up independently of that.

00:31:15.644 --> 00:31:17.285
It's happened a couple of times recently.

00:31:18.305 --> 00:31:20.086
And it was somebody outside of crypto.

00:31:20.145 --> 00:31:21.487
And they were talking about, oh, yeah,

00:31:21.507 --> 00:31:22.567
that was that big crash or something.

00:31:22.626 --> 00:31:23.087
I was like, oh,

00:31:23.107 --> 00:31:24.248
that was in the Cosmos ecosystem.

00:31:24.288 --> 00:31:25.229
I was kind of around for that.

00:31:25.588 --> 00:31:26.808
And they're like, yeah,

00:31:26.868 --> 00:31:27.769
that guy was crazy.

00:31:27.789 --> 00:31:28.369
And I was like, yeah,

00:31:28.390 --> 00:31:30.570
he named his child after the token.

00:31:30.590 --> 00:31:32.172
And they were like, no, he didn't.

00:31:34.051 --> 00:31:34.732
That's too crazy.

00:31:34.752 --> 00:31:35.673
The crash, everything.

00:31:35.992 --> 00:31:36.573
Believe that.

00:31:36.813 --> 00:31:37.473
That's too crazy.

00:31:37.513 --> 00:31:38.013
I was like, no,

00:31:38.034 --> 00:31:39.134
literally name the child Luna.

00:31:39.153 --> 00:31:42.095
I had to look it up.

00:31:42.115 --> 00:31:42.875
Luna's a nice name.

00:31:43.655 --> 00:31:45.955
It's plausibly a real name.

00:31:46.737 --> 00:31:47.656
It wasn't like Schultz named

00:31:47.676 --> 00:31:49.357
his son Cerberus or something, right?

00:31:49.478 --> 00:31:51.959
It's Cerberus.

00:31:52.719 --> 00:31:53.199
Thank you.

00:31:53.499 --> 00:31:56.519
Is it Cerberus?

00:31:56.900 --> 00:31:57.420
Latin.

00:31:57.619 --> 00:31:58.040
Yeah.

00:31:59.869 --> 00:31:59.990
Look,

00:32:00.029 --> 00:32:01.290
we all had high hopes for the little

00:32:01.330 --> 00:32:02.952
doggy, but it just,

00:32:03.874 --> 00:32:05.154
little papa wasn't going to make it.

00:32:05.634 --> 00:32:06.236
My son, Odin.

00:32:06.256 --> 00:32:06.336
Yeah.

00:32:06.355 --> 00:32:09.618
That's quite a good name.

00:32:09.778 --> 00:32:10.459
That's quite a good name.

00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:11.539
Odin's not bad, actually.

00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:11.861
I know.

00:32:11.881 --> 00:32:14.262
The guy from Sigur Rós, the singer,

00:32:14.522 --> 00:32:15.503
is called Thor, isn't he?

00:32:15.584 --> 00:32:15.663
Yeah.

00:32:15.683 --> 00:32:18.926
Well, and there's half Thor,

00:32:19.067 --> 00:32:20.048
the strongest man in the world.

00:32:20.988 --> 00:32:21.229
Really?

00:32:21.249 --> 00:32:22.750
Yeah.

00:32:23.544 --> 00:32:24.785
the the mountain from game

00:32:24.805 --> 00:32:26.026
of nodes or not game of

00:32:26.066 --> 00:32:30.229
nodes game of thrones life

00:32:30.288 --> 00:32:31.809
imitating ass imitating dog

00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:35.913
shit right no shit we must

00:32:35.932 --> 00:32:36.553
have seen loads of good

00:32:36.573 --> 00:32:37.554
films over the summer as

00:32:37.574 --> 00:32:38.315
well that's probably

00:32:38.335 --> 00:32:39.275
something I went to go see

00:32:39.414 --> 00:32:41.856
f-one did you watch that

00:32:41.876 --> 00:32:43.258
f-one the movie was it good

00:32:43.278 --> 00:32:45.440
yeah yeah uh yeah

00:32:46.416 --> 00:32:48.739
I mean, it's Top Gun on the road.

00:32:49.819 --> 00:32:50.759
Basically what it is, right?

00:32:50.859 --> 00:32:51.300
A little bit.

00:32:51.861 --> 00:32:53.102
Top Gun two on the road.

00:32:53.843 --> 00:32:54.423
Top Gun two.

00:32:54.663 --> 00:32:56.203
So not quite as good as Top Gun one.

00:32:56.223 --> 00:32:56.565
No, no, no.

00:32:56.964 --> 00:32:57.744
It was like, okay.

00:32:57.765 --> 00:33:00.047
Hey, so you know what?

00:33:00.586 --> 00:33:03.269
We went to go see an IMAX, which, right?

00:33:03.470 --> 00:33:04.650
So actually what they did is

00:33:04.891 --> 00:33:05.830
I missed the first running

00:33:05.851 --> 00:33:06.491
and then they...

00:33:08.015 --> 00:33:08.935
They re-ran it back in the

00:33:09.576 --> 00:33:10.896
larger IMAX for like a

00:33:11.037 --> 00:33:12.157
weekend or something like that.

00:33:12.178 --> 00:33:13.218
So it was like a month out and I was like,

00:33:13.258 --> 00:33:13.959
I'm just going to buy this

00:33:13.999 --> 00:33:15.398
and then drag my kids to it.

00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:17.800
Which they were totally not

00:33:18.121 --> 00:33:18.661
thrilled about it.

00:33:18.721 --> 00:33:20.962
But anyway, I thought, I mean,

00:33:21.042 --> 00:33:22.183
it is what it is, right?

00:33:22.223 --> 00:33:23.344
It's that, hey,

00:33:23.364 --> 00:33:25.586
the old guy teaches the

00:33:25.625 --> 00:33:27.727
young guy and like, can he do it?

00:33:27.747 --> 00:33:28.728
Can he not do it?

00:33:28.827 --> 00:33:30.749
And he gives him, but he still has the...

00:33:31.766 --> 00:33:33.326
the ability to sacrifice his

00:33:33.446 --> 00:33:35.607
own success for the young one and blah,

00:33:35.627 --> 00:33:36.087
blah, blah.

00:33:36.127 --> 00:33:38.068
But in the end, it's whatever.

00:33:38.690 --> 00:33:39.309
It's fine.

00:33:39.329 --> 00:33:40.550
Classic.

00:33:40.631 --> 00:33:41.270
Classic story.

00:33:41.330 --> 00:33:41.550
Right.

00:33:42.031 --> 00:33:42.251
Okay.

00:33:42.271 --> 00:33:42.971
But here's the thing.

00:33:43.071 --> 00:33:46.953
I was on a work thing a little while ago,

00:33:47.555 --> 00:33:49.016
and there was a Canadian guy there,

00:33:49.336 --> 00:33:50.056
and people were talking

00:33:50.096 --> 00:33:51.737
about niche films.

00:33:52.136 --> 00:33:53.097
And I just took a punt

00:33:53.117 --> 00:33:54.077
because he was Canadian.

00:33:54.157 --> 00:33:54.558
And I went,

00:33:54.898 --> 00:33:57.599
have you ever seen the hockey

00:33:57.619 --> 00:34:00.221
film about the small hockey team

00:34:00.902 --> 00:34:02.502
where and he was like

00:34:02.823 --> 00:34:04.805
slapshot and I was like I

00:34:04.884 --> 00:34:05.765
knew you would know the

00:34:05.805 --> 00:34:06.705
name is that a canadian

00:34:06.766 --> 00:34:09.567
movie no no it's not but

00:34:11.489 --> 00:34:12.969
like it's like kansas city

00:34:12.989 --> 00:34:16.771
or something right like

00:34:16.791 --> 00:34:17.632
like I was like I didn't

00:34:17.652 --> 00:34:18.353
want to say I don't want to

00:34:18.373 --> 00:34:19.554
say the name of the film

00:34:19.594 --> 00:34:21.074
until I was like because if

00:34:21.114 --> 00:34:21.914
I was going to miss with it

00:34:21.934 --> 00:34:22.835
I was just like oh yeah I

00:34:22.856 --> 00:34:23.615
can't remember the name of

00:34:23.675 --> 00:34:24.677
it anyway I'll just like

00:34:24.697 --> 00:34:25.436
start it out I think you're

00:34:25.456 --> 00:34:26.217
gonna see strange proof

00:34:26.717 --> 00:34:28.378
He just came in and I was like, bam.

00:34:28.438 --> 00:34:30.559
I was like, shit, dude,

00:34:30.579 --> 00:34:31.579
we can talk about Slapshot

00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:32.179
now for a while.

00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:32.599
He's like, oh,

00:34:32.619 --> 00:34:33.659
the bit with the national anthem?

00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:34.539
I was like, yeah, I guess.

00:34:35.701 --> 00:34:37.101
Everybody else at the table was like,

00:34:37.621 --> 00:34:39.161
what is fucking wrong with these people?

00:34:39.181 --> 00:34:40.081
And I was like, okay, guys.

00:34:41.501 --> 00:34:41.621
Oh.

00:34:43.003 --> 00:34:43.182
And...

00:34:44.115 --> 00:34:45.317
I couldn't go to it because

00:34:45.918 --> 00:34:47.259
of childcare responsibility,

00:34:47.358 --> 00:34:48.559
but there was a,

00:34:48.699 --> 00:34:52.083
I saw in London when I was walking past a,

00:34:52.103 --> 00:34:54.565
like a, it was like a cult,

00:34:54.684 --> 00:34:56.487
what do you call it?

00:34:56.606 --> 00:34:57.307
Independent cinema.

00:34:58.409 --> 00:35:00.230
There was a Aussie cult

00:35:00.269 --> 00:35:03.893
movies night advertised and

00:35:03.934 --> 00:35:06.795
it had Chopper, Wake and Fright.

00:35:06.996 --> 00:35:08.056
And what's the other one

00:35:08.077 --> 00:35:10.079
that Noel recommended that we watched?

00:35:11.277 --> 00:35:12.458
It was one of those, basically.

00:35:12.478 --> 00:35:13.137
And I was just like, dude,

00:35:13.157 --> 00:35:15.019
this is Game of Nodes, the movie night.

00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:17.760
Chopper?

00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:18.442
Which one is that?

00:35:18.481 --> 00:35:19.041
Which one is that?

00:35:19.543 --> 00:35:21.103
It's the guy with the, you know,

00:35:21.123 --> 00:35:21.704
the mustache.

00:35:21.744 --> 00:35:24.045
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:24.065 --> 00:35:25.045
I always wake and frighten that.

00:35:25.385 --> 00:35:26.706
It's so weird that that movie's like,

00:35:27.268 --> 00:35:27.927
is that considered like an

00:35:27.967 --> 00:35:29.048
Australian classic or something?

00:35:29.068 --> 00:35:30.010
Does it come up in that way?

00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:30.829
Yeah.

00:35:31.070 --> 00:35:32.490
It's a classic of Australian

00:35:32.570 --> 00:35:33.351
new wave cinema.

00:35:35.130 --> 00:35:36.452
okay it's also a very

00:35:36.512 --> 00:35:39.414
important film for the LGBT

00:35:39.454 --> 00:35:42.115
community I gather because

00:35:42.436 --> 00:35:43.996
it like and I know like you

00:35:44.036 --> 00:35:44.657
watch that as a

00:35:44.757 --> 00:35:45.637
non-Australian and you're

00:35:45.657 --> 00:35:47.139
like it seems like just a

00:35:47.179 --> 00:35:48.539
lot of toxic masculinity

00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.840
and it's like apparently

00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:51.922
like even the level to

00:35:51.942 --> 00:35:53.742
which that film has any

00:35:53.822 --> 00:35:55.083
kind of homoeroticism or

00:35:55.103 --> 00:35:56.204
whatever that is in any way

00:35:56.244 --> 00:35:58.326
acknowledged is a big

00:35:58.425 --> 00:35:59.567
improvement on where they

00:35:59.586 --> 00:36:00.688
were before that film was

00:36:00.728 --> 00:36:02.869
made so there you go

00:36:03.617 --> 00:36:04.840
yeah apparently apparently

00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:06.244
that film is sensitive by

00:36:06.304 --> 00:36:08.309
australian standards really wow

00:36:08.757 --> 00:36:09.177
of the time.

00:36:09.237 --> 00:36:10.297
I mean, it was made in like what?

00:36:10.338 --> 00:36:11.697
Like seventies.

00:36:11.717 --> 00:36:12.358
I don't remember any,

00:36:12.478 --> 00:36:13.659
I don't remember anything

00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:15.300
like about that in that movie.

00:36:15.739 --> 00:36:16.400
I think the,

00:36:16.900 --> 00:36:17.880
I have to go back and watch it again.

00:36:18.762 --> 00:36:20.623
Actually, it was there.

00:36:20.643 --> 00:36:21.583
Well, I mean, I mean,

00:36:21.603 --> 00:36:22.704
there's always a bunch of men.

00:36:22.923 --> 00:36:24.143
I've, I've watched it twice,

00:36:24.284 --> 00:36:25.025
possibly three times.

00:36:25.304 --> 00:36:27.025
I've watched it many times, but it's,

00:36:27.286 --> 00:36:28.907
it's good for the kangaroo

00:36:28.947 --> 00:36:29.766
section as well.

00:36:30.186 --> 00:36:30.728
Oh my God.

00:36:31.128 --> 00:36:31.327
Yeah.

00:36:31.387 --> 00:36:33.208
I couldn't make that anymore.

00:36:33.548 --> 00:36:34.168
It's so fucked up.

00:36:34.309 --> 00:36:34.889
Oh, it's good.

00:36:35.210 --> 00:36:35.510
It's good.

00:36:35.530 --> 00:36:35.829
It's good.

00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:36.210
It's good.

00:36:36.610 --> 00:36:36.751
Um,

00:36:37.710 --> 00:36:38.472
I'm sure I've seen some

00:36:38.492 --> 00:36:39.394
really good films this summer,

00:36:39.414 --> 00:36:40.496
but now I can't recall.

00:36:40.637 --> 00:36:42.382
I mean,

00:36:42.402 --> 00:36:43.163
that's only when I watched in the

00:36:43.182 --> 00:36:43.423
theater.

00:36:43.443 --> 00:36:44.326
I haven't been to theater.

00:36:44.385 --> 00:36:44.907
That was the first time I

00:36:44.927 --> 00:36:45.989
think we were in the theater for a year.

00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:47.552
Like, it feels like it's been forever,

00:36:47.592 --> 00:36:47.713
but...

00:36:48.699 --> 00:36:49.920
I mean, other movies, I mean,

00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:50.882
we watch a bunch of shit,

00:36:50.922 --> 00:36:51.922
but I just watched Smoking

00:36:51.943 --> 00:36:52.603
the Bandit last night.

00:36:52.623 --> 00:36:53.063
Does that count?

00:36:54.405 --> 00:36:56.228
I mean, what, the original?

00:36:56.248 --> 00:36:58.949
Yeah.

00:36:58.969 --> 00:36:59.150
Yeah.

00:36:59.170 --> 00:36:59.911
Sure, why not?

00:37:00.152 --> 00:37:00.992
Then I Google what the fuck

00:37:01.012 --> 00:37:02.153
a Diablo sandwich was for

00:37:02.173 --> 00:37:02.873
like a half an hour.

00:37:02.893 --> 00:37:03.215
I was like,

00:37:06.998 --> 00:37:08.500
that's a sandwich that Jackie

00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.081
Gleason orders in the restaurant.

00:37:10.141 --> 00:37:11.282
He orders a Diablo sandwich.

00:37:11.869 --> 00:37:12.108
What is it?

00:37:12.128 --> 00:37:12.949
I didn't know what the hell it was.

00:37:13.048 --> 00:37:13.969
It's totally made up,

00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:14.750
which I realized it was

00:37:14.789 --> 00:37:16.170
made up for that movie.

00:37:16.190 --> 00:37:16.771
And there's a bunch of

00:37:16.791 --> 00:37:17.590
YouTubers are out there

00:37:17.610 --> 00:37:18.170
trying to figure out what

00:37:18.190 --> 00:37:18.871
the hell that is,

00:37:18.952 --> 00:37:21.112
which I guess is a spiky, a spiky,

00:37:21.311 --> 00:37:23.853
a spicy pulled pork sandwich.

00:37:24.193 --> 00:37:25.134
And I was like, oh, okay.

00:37:25.213 --> 00:37:27.494
So then I, then I was like, sounds good.

00:37:27.514 --> 00:37:28.275
I'm gonna have to do it.

00:37:28.655 --> 00:37:29.994
I'm gonna get a shot, make a Diablo.

00:37:30.014 --> 00:37:30.795
Yeah, exactly.

00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:36.260
Artifact was in London a

00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:37.782
while ago for a conference.

00:37:39.222 --> 00:37:43.047
I took him to first a cockfighting pit,

00:37:43.246 --> 00:37:44.347
a former cockfighting pit.

00:37:44.387 --> 00:37:44.668
Obviously,

00:37:44.688 --> 00:37:45.889
we don't still have cockfighting

00:37:46.530 --> 00:37:47.791
in the UK in a pub,

00:37:47.831 --> 00:37:52.076
but we went to a former cockfighting pit.

00:37:52.576 --> 00:37:53.856
Good backpedal, by the way.

00:37:53.936 --> 00:37:54.478
It was former.

00:37:54.557 --> 00:37:54.838
Formal.

00:37:56.980 --> 00:37:59.940
in the city of london um now

00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:01.581
yeah yeah of course it's

00:38:01.621 --> 00:38:02.922
knocked out we're not

00:38:02.961 --> 00:38:05.503
savages um and then we went

00:38:05.543 --> 00:38:07.244
for uh we went for a

00:38:07.264 --> 00:38:09.664
sandwich like right towards

00:38:09.684 --> 00:38:10.784
the end of the night that

00:38:10.804 --> 00:38:12.065
was so good that like I

00:38:12.085 --> 00:38:12.824
think it was like I feel

00:38:12.844 --> 00:38:13.846
like a couple of months later

00:38:15.494 --> 00:38:16.914
Either I saw Artifact again

00:38:16.954 --> 00:38:19.956
in person or he texted me and just said,

00:38:20.016 --> 00:38:21.476
I'm still thinking about that sandwich.

00:38:21.496 --> 00:38:25.297
And I was like, yeah.

00:38:25.396 --> 00:38:25.958
You know when you show

00:38:25.998 --> 00:38:27.637
somebody around a city you

00:38:27.657 --> 00:38:31.259
know well and you're like, I need one.

00:38:31.838 --> 00:38:34.380
If I do one thing where it's just like,

00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.340
hey, that's what you're going for,

00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:37.699
isn't it?

00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:38.740
That's the whole purpose of

00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:39.701
me showing somebody around.

00:38:40.161 --> 00:38:41.601
So I was like, sandwich, I'll take it.

00:38:41.661 --> 00:38:42.981
Call it the Diablo sandwich.

00:38:43.181 --> 00:38:43.981
That's the one.

00:38:44.461 --> 00:38:45.882
that's the one brick lane

00:38:45.902 --> 00:38:47.342
bagel for those of you who

00:38:47.443 --> 00:38:49.382
are um actually based in

00:38:49.443 --> 00:38:50.583
london and would know what

00:38:50.623 --> 00:38:52.503
that is brick lane bagel I

00:38:52.523 --> 00:38:53.963
believe one am something

00:38:54.003 --> 00:38:55.445
like that are they

00:38:55.485 --> 00:38:57.405
sandwiches yeah it's like a

00:38:57.625 --> 00:38:58.864
it's like a bagel just

00:38:58.885 --> 00:39:00.326
there's bagels all day baby

00:39:00.806 --> 00:39:02.746
yeah yeah I've done for

00:39:02.806 --> 00:39:06.327
like fuck it forever I

00:39:06.367 --> 00:39:07.166
somebody have to tell me

00:39:07.226 --> 00:39:08.307
how long brick lane bagels

00:39:08.327 --> 00:39:09.188
has been open there i

00:39:09.769 --> 00:39:11.371
It sounds wrongly imagined

00:39:11.391 --> 00:39:13.052
that if I asked my old man about it,

00:39:13.092 --> 00:39:14.032
he'd tell me that he was

00:39:14.052 --> 00:39:15.052
having Brick Lane bagels

00:39:15.072 --> 00:39:16.693
there in nineteen seventy

00:39:16.733 --> 00:39:18.494
nine when he lived in the in the area.

00:39:18.594 --> 00:39:22.577
So it sounds healthy.

00:39:22.998 --> 00:39:23.538
Lane bagels.

00:39:23.597 --> 00:39:24.278
It sounds healthy.

00:39:24.298 --> 00:39:25.559
Just like a bagel bagel.

00:39:25.579 --> 00:39:26.099
What is that?

00:39:27.806 --> 00:39:28.626
doesn't sound like a two a.m

00:39:28.646 --> 00:39:29.447
shawarma type of thing

00:39:29.467 --> 00:39:30.128
right it sounds like it

00:39:30.148 --> 00:39:31.289
sounds healthy like is

00:39:31.309 --> 00:39:32.889
there oh it's not it's not

00:39:32.909 --> 00:39:34.489
it's not it's like it's

00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:36.070
like salt marinated salt

00:39:36.090 --> 00:39:37.190
beef or whatever just like

00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:38.192
a big chunk of salt okay

00:39:38.632 --> 00:39:39.913
okay all right and a big

00:39:39.952 --> 00:39:40.853
pickle like like you know

00:39:40.873 --> 00:39:41.572
one of those huge pickles

00:39:41.592 --> 00:39:42.594
just slice clean in two

00:39:42.614 --> 00:39:44.114
yeah right now yeah um

00:39:47.815 --> 00:39:48.956
I don't get to go there very often.

00:39:49.277 --> 00:39:51.538
And, um, so I, I just ate two.

00:39:51.557 --> 00:39:52.838
You did.

00:39:52.878 --> 00:39:54.398
Yeah.

00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:57.360
I'd like, uh, yeah.

00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.681
And then like, um, artifact was like,

00:39:59.701 --> 00:40:01.141
it was like, damn, I see why you had to,

00:40:01.242 --> 00:40:02.842
cause you do think about it afterwards.

00:40:02.862 --> 00:40:08.523
I was like, what are you going to do?

00:40:08.764 --> 00:40:08.965
Yeah.

00:40:08.985 --> 00:40:09.144
Yeah.

00:40:09.184 --> 00:40:09.445
It's cool.

00:40:09.465 --> 00:40:09.625
Isn't it?

00:40:09.684 --> 00:40:13.847
It's, um, yeah.

00:40:13.947 --> 00:40:16.068
ECC was a weird vibe this year as well.

00:40:16.168 --> 00:40:16.827
Like, um,

00:40:18.188 --> 00:40:18.989
was another one where

00:40:19.610 --> 00:40:20.989
everywhere you went as soon

00:40:21.070 --> 00:40:21.911
as you know people were

00:40:21.931 --> 00:40:22.490
like we're doing a little

00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.552
chat um as soon as anybody

00:40:25.572 --> 00:40:27.733
found out that you um ran a

00:40:27.753 --> 00:40:28.954
validator shop they were

00:40:28.994 --> 00:40:32.255
like full sales mode you're

00:40:32.275 --> 00:40:34.436
like bruh especially in

00:40:34.476 --> 00:40:36.297
ethereum do you think

00:40:36.317 --> 00:40:37.418
validators are bringing

00:40:37.458 --> 00:40:39.639
home the big bucks at the

00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:41.159
moment like what what is

00:40:41.219 --> 00:40:42.840
this it's very very

00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:44.420
interesting like it was like um

00:40:46.487 --> 00:40:47.708
Yeah, it was like liquidity crunch.

00:40:47.728 --> 00:40:50.130
The conference was my vibe.

00:40:50.170 --> 00:40:50.389
Really?

00:40:50.471 --> 00:40:51.811
Well, there are, I mean,

00:40:51.851 --> 00:40:52.431
I think it's mostly the

00:40:52.452 --> 00:40:53.472
Cosmos ecosystem that's

00:40:54.072 --> 00:40:55.032
poor at this point, right?

00:40:55.132 --> 00:40:56.733
Like hyperliquid validators

00:40:56.793 --> 00:40:57.815
are just raking it in.

00:40:58.956 --> 00:41:00.115
Sweet validators are raking in.

00:41:00.155 --> 00:41:01.617
Solana validators, kind of,

00:41:01.677 --> 00:41:02.898
but not totally raking it in.

00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:05.380
We just happen to be poor.

00:41:06.820 --> 00:41:07.021
Yeah.

00:41:07.101 --> 00:41:07.360
Okay.

00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:07.880
Fair point.

00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:08.382
Fair point.

00:41:08.422 --> 00:41:08.842
Fair point.

00:41:10.302 --> 00:41:11.844
But as in like a lot of the,

00:41:11.864 --> 00:41:13.264
there are Ethereum LTs doing well,

00:41:13.405 --> 00:41:14.664
like you say, hyperliquid.

00:41:14.704 --> 00:41:14.806
The

00:41:16.112 --> 00:41:17.112
that was the follow-up

00:41:17.152 --> 00:41:17.992
question right whenever

00:41:18.032 --> 00:41:19.114
anybody was like you're

00:41:19.134 --> 00:41:20.195
like we do some stuff in

00:41:20.215 --> 00:41:21.014
the theorem ecosystem and

00:41:21.034 --> 00:41:21.976
they're like do you do

00:41:22.016 --> 00:41:23.556
hyper liquid we're a bare

00:41:23.577 --> 00:41:24.677
metal provider do you do

00:41:24.717 --> 00:41:25.737
hyper liquid I want to sell

00:41:25.757 --> 00:41:26.378
you some stuff and you're

00:41:26.398 --> 00:41:27.539
like we don't do hyper

00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:28.438
liquid and they're like

00:41:28.579 --> 00:41:32.121
glaze over I'm not going to

00:41:32.141 --> 00:41:32.961
give you the cool merch no

00:41:33.001 --> 00:41:35.523
um wasn't it didn't the

00:41:35.563 --> 00:41:36.364
last thing I needed was to

00:41:36.384 --> 00:41:38.686
carry any more shit around france um

00:41:39.625 --> 00:41:42.347
But, yeah, I managed to gelato every day,

00:41:42.367 --> 00:41:42.507
though.

00:41:42.586 --> 00:41:43.047
So, you know,

00:41:43.106 --> 00:41:44.588
it was swings and roundabouts,

00:41:44.628 --> 00:41:45.768
as they say.

00:41:45.809 --> 00:41:46.449
Ups and downs.

00:41:46.929 --> 00:41:47.889
It was ups and downs.

00:41:47.929 --> 00:41:50.731
Like, yeah,

00:41:50.771 --> 00:41:52.512
Cannes is an interesting place to do it,

00:41:52.552 --> 00:41:52.753
right?

00:41:52.773 --> 00:41:53.092
Because...

00:41:55.623 --> 00:41:56.643
was like all these clueless

00:41:56.663 --> 00:41:59.483
um uh crypto guys can get

00:41:59.523 --> 00:42:00.684
completely owned because

00:42:00.724 --> 00:42:02.744
like a lot of the france is

00:42:02.764 --> 00:42:03.804
kind of the capital of

00:42:03.824 --> 00:42:05.005
attacks like physical

00:42:05.045 --> 00:42:06.445
attacks on people who have

00:42:06.666 --> 00:42:07.445
crypto assets and stuff

00:42:07.465 --> 00:42:08.226
there's been quite a lot of

00:42:08.306 --> 00:42:10.286
documentaries is it really

00:42:10.306 --> 00:42:11.027
yeah as far as I can tell

00:42:11.047 --> 00:42:12.248
there's a lot of documented

00:42:12.268 --> 00:42:13.467
cases like kidnappings and

00:42:13.487 --> 00:42:14.188
all sorts of stuff because

00:42:14.208 --> 00:42:16.188
there's like it's like

00:42:16.208 --> 00:42:16.989
organized crime and stuff

00:42:17.028 --> 00:42:18.068
like really on the

00:42:18.108 --> 00:42:18.969
continental mainland or

00:42:19.009 --> 00:42:22.989
whatever um we need to

00:42:23.030 --> 00:42:24.791
delve deeper into this really francis

00:42:27.201 --> 00:42:28.681
If you go into any of the

00:42:28.702 --> 00:42:29.442
public repositories,

00:42:29.681 --> 00:42:31.242
there's one for Bitcoin, for example,

00:42:31.302 --> 00:42:34.626
which on GitHub document in

00:42:34.646 --> 00:42:36.266
the news physical attacks

00:42:37.427 --> 00:42:39.608
of people to try and steal

00:42:39.708 --> 00:42:40.969
or extort crypto assets.

00:42:42.090 --> 00:42:42.951
Franz from a

00:42:44.911 --> 00:42:47.173
a kind of non-scientific I

00:42:47.193 --> 00:42:48.193
was just flicking through

00:42:48.255 --> 00:42:50.016
to get some like very rough

00:42:50.096 --> 00:42:52.916
numbers um france seems

00:42:53.197 --> 00:42:55.159
over represented was my

00:42:55.298 --> 00:42:58.181
takeaway admittedly almost

00:42:58.240 --> 00:42:59.742
all paris as far as I could

00:42:59.782 --> 00:43:01.483
tell like again just from

00:43:01.623 --> 00:43:02.864
from the from like flicking

00:43:02.884 --> 00:43:03.463
through data in a

00:43:03.563 --> 00:43:04.985
non-scientific way and so I

00:43:05.005 --> 00:43:06.425
was kind of like can is

00:43:06.445 --> 00:43:07.847
that going to be okay but

00:43:07.887 --> 00:43:09.588
it turns out like because there's so many

00:43:10.659 --> 00:43:11.860
But Cannes is such a weird place, right?

00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:14.521
The menus are in English, French,

00:43:14.661 --> 00:43:15.400
and Russian.

00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:15.541
Really?

00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:19.161
Yeah.

00:43:19.202 --> 00:43:20.922
Some of those menus are in Russian.

00:43:20.961 --> 00:43:23.362
You're like, hmm.

00:43:23.461 --> 00:43:23.742
Yes,

00:43:23.842 --> 00:43:26.063
a country with the economy the size of

00:43:26.262 --> 00:43:26.782
Italy,

00:43:27.503 --> 00:43:29.943
known for not being under an

00:43:29.983 --> 00:43:31.023
embargo at the moment.

00:43:31.184 --> 00:43:31.784
Oh, wait.

00:43:32.724 --> 00:43:34.364
So why are we... Why are

00:43:34.384 --> 00:43:36.164
some of the menus in Russian?

00:43:36.304 --> 00:43:37.264
Unless they're... Anyway.

00:43:37.885 --> 00:43:38.045
So...

00:43:39.922 --> 00:43:40.143
But yeah,

00:43:40.163 --> 00:43:41.063
there's a lot of rich people in

00:43:41.085 --> 00:43:42.025
Cannes and they have their

00:43:42.146 --> 00:43:43.907
own basically local police

00:43:44.007 --> 00:43:45.469
and additional bylaws and blah, blah,

00:43:45.489 --> 00:43:45.731
blah.

00:43:45.751 --> 00:43:46.251
It's actually like,

00:43:46.851 --> 00:43:48.755
it's incredibly closely surveilled.

00:43:48.855 --> 00:43:49.996
So, you know,

00:43:50.916 --> 00:43:52.137
cruelest crypto blows just

00:43:52.177 --> 00:43:53.277
like walking around with

00:43:53.318 --> 00:43:54.579
their lanyards flapping um

00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:56.581
we're actually completely

00:43:56.621 --> 00:43:58.001
safe unlike you know we you

00:43:58.041 --> 00:43:59.903
know whenever it was like a

00:43:59.943 --> 00:44:00.764
few years ago in lisbon

00:44:00.784 --> 00:44:01.505
where we heard of loads of

00:44:01.525 --> 00:44:02.766
people like getting into

00:44:03.186 --> 00:44:04.327
potential trouble and stuff

00:44:04.807 --> 00:44:07.409
right well and you well not

00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:08.771
no lisbon yeah sorry and

00:44:08.791 --> 00:44:09.813
then in barcelona where you

00:44:09.833 --> 00:44:12.114
get your own pocket picked

00:44:12.155 --> 00:44:14.275
all right thanks yeah keep

00:44:14.315 --> 00:44:15.677
reminding me that's like

00:44:17.148 --> 00:44:17.807
That was just, that was,

00:44:17.867 --> 00:44:18.889
that was non-targeted.

00:44:18.909 --> 00:44:19.688
That was just, that was just,

00:44:19.809 --> 00:44:21.309
I got done over by a kid

00:44:21.329 --> 00:44:22.990
who shoved past me on a trap, on a,

00:44:23.690 --> 00:44:24.132
on a tram.

00:44:24.152 --> 00:44:25.192
And I was just like, ah, that kid,

00:44:25.311 --> 00:44:26.233
I don't want a fucking second.

00:44:26.253 --> 00:44:28.554
Yeah.

00:44:28.574 --> 00:44:29.173
Should have known better.

00:44:29.213 --> 00:44:29.514
You know what?

00:44:29.695 --> 00:44:30.295
Fucking hell.

00:44:30.534 --> 00:44:31.215
Backpacks all the way

00:44:31.235 --> 00:44:31.996
through the third world.

00:44:32.016 --> 00:44:33.335
And I got done by that trick.

00:44:33.416 --> 00:44:34.757
I'm still angry about it.

00:44:34.777 --> 00:44:37.318
It's the oldest trick in the book.

00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:38.059
It really is.

00:44:40.557 --> 00:44:40.777
Yeah,

00:44:40.797 --> 00:44:41.657
I think that's literally what your

00:44:41.677 --> 00:44:42.798
business partner said to me

00:44:43.418 --> 00:44:45.219
about one second after it happened.

00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.201
I went, wait a second, that's my wallet.

00:44:47.221 --> 00:44:48.181
He's like, really?

00:44:48.521 --> 00:44:49.202
He's like, really?

00:44:49.262 --> 00:44:49.402
Yeah,

00:44:49.422 --> 00:44:50.583
it was that guy that just got off the

00:44:50.623 --> 00:44:50.882
thing.

00:44:51.083 --> 00:44:52.344
Ah, that's the oldest trick in the book.

00:44:52.364 --> 00:44:55.465
Do you think I don't know that?

00:44:55.646 --> 00:44:57.407
there's four of us on this Metro train.

00:44:57.447 --> 00:44:59.047
And then this kid, this kid bumps into,

00:44:59.387 --> 00:45:00.027
into the fray.

00:45:00.047 --> 00:45:00.947
It was like,

00:45:00.967 --> 00:45:02.088
literally there's no reason to

00:45:02.108 --> 00:45:02.668
bump into anybody.

00:45:02.708 --> 00:45:03.929
There's nobody on this train.

00:45:04.409 --> 00:45:07.010
It wasn't that busy.

00:45:07.090 --> 00:45:07.972
It was, there was nobody out.

00:45:08.012 --> 00:45:08.891
It was like the three of us.

00:45:09.092 --> 00:45:10.152
Plus I was really surprised.

00:45:10.172 --> 00:45:12.454
I was just like, I was like,

00:45:12.494 --> 00:45:13.554
watch where you're going.

00:45:13.574 --> 00:45:15.155
You're like, are you okay, sir?

00:45:15.175 --> 00:45:15.335
Oh yeah.

00:45:19.277 --> 00:45:20.958
I got completely rolled by that.

00:45:20.998 --> 00:45:21.458
That was good.

00:45:23.422 --> 00:45:24.463
but as again as your

00:45:24.483 --> 00:45:25.463
business part said you know

00:45:25.503 --> 00:45:27.103
cheap lesson um cheap

00:45:27.143 --> 00:45:29.164
lesson completely changed

00:45:29.605 --> 00:45:30.525
the way I do personal

00:45:30.746 --> 00:45:32.286
operational security when

00:45:32.746 --> 00:45:35.068
I'm not not doing part of a

00:45:35.088 --> 00:45:36.509
daily routine in fact even

00:45:36.528 --> 00:45:38.309
when I'm just traveling on

00:45:38.329 --> 00:45:39.230
the train domestically in

00:45:39.250 --> 00:45:41.391
the uk and stuff now um I

00:45:41.512 --> 00:45:42.911
now I'm back to full

00:45:43.672 --> 00:45:44.552
paranoid third world

00:45:44.592 --> 00:45:46.614
backpacker mode like what

00:45:46.653 --> 00:45:47.215
you stick your phone in

00:45:47.235 --> 00:45:49.315
there in the backpack

00:45:50.405 --> 00:45:51.867
no down my pants obviously

00:45:52.327 --> 00:45:55.050
oh okay yeah come on now

00:45:55.110 --> 00:45:56.672
bro loose fitting pants

00:45:56.713 --> 00:45:58.054
with a giant pocket that

00:45:58.114 --> 00:46:00.277
opens yeah no but just like

00:46:00.297 --> 00:46:01.018
you know if you're if

00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:02.900
you're like um just like

00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:03.541
sitting down you've got

00:46:03.561 --> 00:46:05.465
your laptop um in your bag

00:46:05.485 --> 00:46:06.987
or whatever at your feet

00:46:07.554 --> 00:46:08.574
have have like a big

00:46:08.614 --> 00:46:10.076
carabiner on your bag and

00:46:10.115 --> 00:46:11.498
just like clip it around

00:46:11.657 --> 00:46:12.918
like the base of the chair

00:46:12.958 --> 00:46:14.159
and stuff like that so if

00:46:14.179 --> 00:46:14.920
somebody just like walks

00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:16.643
past and scoops yeah you

00:46:16.663 --> 00:46:17.603
know it would just go clunk

00:46:17.623 --> 00:46:19.204
and can't do anything which

00:46:19.244 --> 00:46:20.085
is which is shit I would

00:46:20.146 --> 00:46:21.246
never have done on a train

00:46:21.286 --> 00:46:22.628
like five years ago or

00:46:22.668 --> 00:46:23.628
three years ago because

00:46:23.648 --> 00:46:24.369
I'll just be like that is

00:46:24.429 --> 00:46:25.431
too paranoid and now I'm

00:46:25.471 --> 00:46:29.914
back fully on that um yeah

00:46:30.094 --> 00:46:31.436
hey what you're gonna do cheap lesson

00:46:32.389 --> 00:46:33.329
Well, I think the other thing was like,

00:46:33.409 --> 00:46:34.030
you were worried about

00:46:34.070 --> 00:46:35.052
two-factor because they get

00:46:35.172 --> 00:46:36.172
two-factor app on there and

00:46:36.193 --> 00:46:37.394
a bunch of other shit that was like, oh,

00:46:37.494 --> 00:46:37.695
fuck,

00:46:37.715 --> 00:46:38.876
how the fuck am I going to get that back?

00:46:38.976 --> 00:46:40.257
That's the other piece, too, is like,

00:46:40.277 --> 00:46:42.820
how do you... Because I

00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:43.842
export like a two-factor

00:46:43.862 --> 00:46:45.123
out because that thing's not cloud-based.

00:46:45.164 --> 00:46:47.025
It's just one-off type of thing.

00:46:47.226 --> 00:46:47.726
And like,

00:46:47.746 --> 00:46:48.768
that thing gets exported all the

00:46:48.788 --> 00:46:49.528
time because I always get

00:46:49.588 --> 00:46:50.208
worried about that, too,

00:46:50.228 --> 00:46:50.949
if I lose a phone.

00:46:51.610 --> 00:46:53.293
I'm not going to get pickpocket, but

00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:56.981
I actually have just to have

00:46:57.221 --> 00:46:58.422
essentially a smartphone

00:46:58.762 --> 00:47:01.244
with our two-factor app recovered,

00:47:01.324 --> 00:47:02.184
pre-recovered.

00:47:03.204 --> 00:47:04.686
And all it is on that

00:47:04.746 --> 00:47:07.628
smartphone is the two-factor app.

00:47:07.788 --> 00:47:08.608
It's just in our vault.

00:47:09.108 --> 00:47:10.670
Because I'm just like, well, look,

00:47:10.769 --> 00:47:12.110
absolute worst-case scenario.

00:47:12.231 --> 00:47:14.253
I literally cannot get in.

00:47:14.432 --> 00:47:15.273
Everything is fucked.

00:47:16.293 --> 00:47:18.255
It is only ever a case of getting a flight,

00:47:18.856 --> 00:47:21.117
getting a taxi, picking that thing up,

00:47:21.617 --> 00:47:22.818
plugging it into charge.

00:47:22.838 --> 00:47:23.840
Did you say getting a flight?

00:47:24.855 --> 00:47:24.934
Well,

00:47:24.954 --> 00:47:25.795
because I'd have to come back to the

00:47:25.815 --> 00:47:27.036
bank vault to get it.

00:47:27.396 --> 00:47:27.876
Wherever you are.

00:47:27.936 --> 00:47:29.436
Yeah.

00:47:29.456 --> 00:47:30.077
Because let's assume I'm in

00:47:30.117 --> 00:47:31.117
Barcelona or whatever.

00:47:31.177 --> 00:47:32.898
I had to pay the idiot tax, right?

00:47:33.097 --> 00:47:35.998
Yeah.

00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:36.980
That's also what your

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.320
business partner called it.

00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:38.420
Yeah.

00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.101
It's the idiot tax.

00:47:40.181 --> 00:47:41.481
I learned a lot of things that day.

00:47:42.902 --> 00:47:43.981
It's just that sometimes you

00:47:44.021 --> 00:47:44.782
learn too much.

00:47:44.822 --> 00:47:45.963
You see too much in too

00:47:45.983 --> 00:47:47.043
short a space of time.

00:47:47.063 --> 00:47:48.123
I remember your face.

00:47:48.164 --> 00:47:50.065
You were like, what happened?

00:47:50.085 --> 00:47:52.425
I don't understand.

00:47:53.286 --> 00:47:56.947
How did this happen?

00:47:57.027 --> 00:47:57.606
It was kind of like,

00:47:57.626 --> 00:47:58.527
it's funny in hindsight,

00:47:58.568 --> 00:48:00.068
but also the fact that we

00:48:00.088 --> 00:48:01.307
were actually out drinking

00:48:01.387 --> 00:48:02.949
and then I mainly had to

00:48:02.969 --> 00:48:04.068
deal with it in the morning

00:48:04.329 --> 00:48:05.210
with a hangover.

00:48:05.269 --> 00:48:06.329
That was the worst part.

00:48:06.349 --> 00:48:08.891
Because you were like, you have to call up,

00:48:08.911 --> 00:48:11.170
you have to cancel cards, freeze things.

00:48:11.371 --> 00:48:14.572
And they're just like, are you okay, sir?

00:48:16.552 --> 00:48:17.313
You sound agitated,

00:48:17.333 --> 00:48:18.233
but this is normal if

00:48:18.253 --> 00:48:19.614
you've had a theft incident

00:48:19.673 --> 00:48:20.213
and you're like...

00:48:20.907 --> 00:48:23.548
Yes, I'm agitated because of the theft.

00:48:23.668 --> 00:48:24.108
You're like,

00:48:24.248 --> 00:48:25.730
I'm just really hungover and I

00:48:25.750 --> 00:48:26.429
have a headache.

00:48:27.050 --> 00:48:28.389
I don't want to be here.

00:48:28.550 --> 00:48:29.391
Blurring your words.

00:48:30.271 --> 00:48:31.632
It was also hot in that flat.

00:48:34.152 --> 00:48:34.231
Well,

00:48:34.251 --> 00:48:35.972
maybe it was just the... I think it

00:48:35.992 --> 00:48:38.514
was just your rage.

00:48:38.534 --> 00:48:39.233
Just my rage.

00:48:40.373 --> 00:48:41.454
Forget Schultz's rash.

00:48:41.474 --> 00:48:43.275
It's just a five hundred watts of rage.

00:48:46.315 --> 00:48:47.137
Yep.

00:48:47.217 --> 00:48:48.036
That was a good time.

00:48:49.081 --> 00:48:49.422
Yeah, it was.

00:48:49.442 --> 00:48:50.041
It was pretty good.

00:48:50.963 --> 00:48:52.302
I enjoyed it.

00:48:52.563 --> 00:48:55.025
That was the last, I think,

00:48:55.065 --> 00:48:57.485
foreign conference I did before ECC,

00:48:57.626 --> 00:48:58.045
actually.

00:48:58.606 --> 00:49:00.606
Yeah, no SmartCon Barcelona.

00:49:02.507 --> 00:49:03.027
Yeah, October.

00:49:03.307 --> 00:49:04.628
It was two years ago.

00:49:04.989 --> 00:49:06.449
Something like that, yeah.

00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:09.210
It was just after I started the PhD.

00:49:09.231 --> 00:49:10.471
Are you almost done with that?

00:49:10.911 --> 00:49:14.572
Are we done with that?

00:49:14.612 --> 00:49:16.514
Are we rounding third base here?

00:49:16.554 --> 00:49:16.873
Where are we?

00:49:17.798 --> 00:49:19.539
I'm on such a delay.

00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.860
Well, I do it part-time, right?

00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:23.802
So it can be up to six years,

00:49:23.922 --> 00:49:25.282
but usually it's four to five.

00:49:25.503 --> 00:49:27.764
But I'm two in,

00:49:28.304 --> 00:49:29.344
and I've been trying to get

00:49:30.344 --> 00:49:31.326
the thing that you have to

00:49:31.365 --> 00:49:32.385
do as your checkpoint

00:49:32.606 --> 00:49:33.586
organized for a while,

00:49:33.606 --> 00:49:35.148
but it's really hard to get it organized.

00:49:35.507 --> 00:49:36.228
And in the end,

00:49:36.648 --> 00:49:38.389
it got delayed and delayed and delayed.

00:49:38.909 --> 00:49:39.949
And then eventually an email

00:49:39.989 --> 00:49:41.190
got sent around by the

00:49:41.331 --> 00:49:42.311
admin department of the

00:49:42.351 --> 00:49:43.512
university bollocking

00:49:43.632 --> 00:49:45.012
everybody involved for not

00:49:45.748 --> 00:49:47.831
having organized it, including me,

00:49:47.871 --> 00:49:48.333
obviously.

00:49:48.432 --> 00:49:50.275
And then suddenly it got like arranged.

00:49:50.876 --> 00:49:51.378
Oh, okay.

00:49:51.398 --> 00:49:51.759
Like that.

00:49:51.858 --> 00:49:54.163
And it's like in two weeks or whatever.

00:49:54.202 --> 00:49:55.144
So it's quite a big deal.

00:49:55.164 --> 00:49:57.829
So what, what is that exactly?

00:49:58.592 --> 00:49:59.552
Uh, well,

00:49:59.572 --> 00:50:00.954
so I have to do two things

00:50:01.014 --> 00:50:02.315
because they weren't done

00:50:02.394 --> 00:50:03.735
and they're kind of the same thing,

00:50:03.775 --> 00:50:04.356
but a bit different.

00:50:04.376 --> 00:50:05.376
I have to do what's called a

00:50:05.396 --> 00:50:06.157
first year Viva,

00:50:06.177 --> 00:50:07.157
which is to defend that I

00:50:07.177 --> 00:50:08.699
haven't been slacking for my first year,

00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:12.501
which is kind of, it's not no work,

00:50:12.541 --> 00:50:13.322
but it's like a little bit

00:50:13.342 --> 00:50:14.222
of a formality if you

00:50:14.322 --> 00:50:15.483
haven't actually been slacking.

00:50:15.543 --> 00:50:17.385
And then the second thing I have to do is.

00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:19.101
an upgrade fiver,

00:50:19.161 --> 00:50:20.442
which is to actually prove

00:50:20.461 --> 00:50:21.742
that you have fulfilled

00:50:21.782 --> 00:50:23.043
enough of the requirements

00:50:23.284 --> 00:50:25.085
of being a PhD student and

00:50:25.164 --> 00:50:27.045
actually can viably get to

00:50:27.106 --> 00:50:28.567
actually receiving the PhD

00:50:29.186 --> 00:50:30.007
in order to continue.

00:50:30.068 --> 00:50:31.188
And some people do fail that.

00:50:31.349 --> 00:50:33.090
Does that mean you have to

00:50:33.210 --> 00:50:34.271
stage a Juno upgrade

00:50:34.351 --> 00:50:35.731
blindfolded or something like that?

00:50:35.771 --> 00:50:36.612
What's the actual?

00:50:37.373 --> 00:50:39.173
I have to write a long paper

00:50:39.213 --> 00:50:40.454
about the theoretical

00:50:40.594 --> 00:50:41.896
implementation of a Juno

00:50:41.936 --> 00:50:43.117
upgrade blindfolded.

00:50:46.009 --> 00:50:46.769
yeah I mean I'm actually

00:50:46.809 --> 00:50:47.570
slightly kidding about

00:50:47.630 --> 00:50:48.452
that's kind of what it is

00:50:48.552 --> 00:50:50.072
like uh did you see there's

00:50:50.092 --> 00:50:51.313
a prop-sixteen twitter

00:50:51.353 --> 00:50:53.655
account is that yeah

00:50:53.835 --> 00:50:55.117
there's a I should we

00:50:55.137 --> 00:50:55.657
should have created that

00:50:55.677 --> 00:50:56.398
why the fuck did we not do

00:50:56.418 --> 00:50:58.500
that because because I

00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:00.442
usually I usually I usually

00:51:00.481 --> 00:51:02.384
tweet out about about the

00:51:02.443 --> 00:51:03.385
anniversary because it's in

00:51:03.425 --> 00:51:06.646
my calendar prop-sixteen's

00:51:06.666 --> 00:51:10.590
in my calendar and then uh jack uh

00:51:11.492 --> 00:51:12.753
tweeted out and it's like

00:51:12.793 --> 00:51:13.494
some never forget

00:51:13.554 --> 00:51:14.934
prop-sixteen and I I was

00:51:14.954 --> 00:51:15.914
like yeah never forget it

00:51:15.954 --> 00:51:16.476
and then there's a

00:51:16.755 --> 00:51:18.217
prop-sixteen twitter

00:51:18.237 --> 00:51:18.916
account was like never

00:51:18.936 --> 00:51:20.177
forget and and like the

00:51:20.237 --> 00:51:20.978
prop-sixteen twitter

00:51:20.998 --> 00:51:22.458
account the subtitle is

00:51:22.539 --> 00:51:24.320
never forget I was like I

00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:25.059
thought it was what do you

00:51:25.099 --> 00:51:26.501
do or what are you three

00:51:26.601 --> 00:51:29.402
actually it could be it

00:51:29.422 --> 00:51:31.264
sounds like it could be a

00:51:31.304 --> 00:51:31.884
jack thing I know is

00:51:31.923 --> 00:51:33.003
strange love still going or

00:51:33.063 --> 00:51:34.425
to jack exit what's going

00:51:34.485 --> 00:51:36.485
on there they were uh yep

00:51:36.565 --> 00:51:37.586
they were acquired yeah

00:51:39.166 --> 00:51:39.666
So no,

00:51:39.887 --> 00:51:41.188
I guess they wouldn't be considered

00:51:41.268 --> 00:51:42.289
still going because they

00:51:42.309 --> 00:51:44.710
got rolled into Ondo Finance.

00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:46.271
Yeah, they're in Ondo.

00:51:46.692 --> 00:51:47.612
The whole team is in Ondo.

00:51:48.393 --> 00:51:49.432
Whether Strangelove still exists,

00:51:49.472 --> 00:51:49.893
I don't know.

00:51:49.954 --> 00:51:51.373
It might have some, I don't know if they,

00:51:51.393 --> 00:51:52.155
I don't know.

00:51:52.195 --> 00:51:53.456
Depends on what the entity happened,

00:51:53.916 --> 00:51:55.376
if they bought the entity or the assets.

00:51:56.570 --> 00:51:57.570
By sheer coincidence,

00:51:58.132 --> 00:51:59.371
I was wearing my Strange

00:51:59.411 --> 00:52:01.454
Love t-shirt from Cosmoverse.

00:52:01.893 --> 00:52:05.536
Yeah, it's glow in the dark.

00:52:05.577 --> 00:52:06.536
It's actually quite cool.

00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:09.018
I didn't realize I was

00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:11.820
literally because of

00:52:12.181 --> 00:52:13.202
eco-saving or I think

00:52:13.282 --> 00:52:13.842
actually because the

00:52:13.862 --> 00:52:14.663
building landlords are

00:52:14.702 --> 00:52:16.003
cheap where we have our offices,

00:52:16.443 --> 00:52:17.525
the lights in the toilets

00:52:17.565 --> 00:52:19.106
turn off after three minutes.

00:52:19.405 --> 00:52:21.248
That is too short if you

00:52:21.288 --> 00:52:22.389
were taking a dump.

00:52:23.248 --> 00:52:25.150
So what happened was the

00:52:25.190 --> 00:52:26.831
lights went out and my

00:52:26.851 --> 00:52:28.552
fucking t-shirt was glowing.

00:52:28.612 --> 00:52:29.672
And that's how I found out

00:52:29.713 --> 00:52:31.173
it glowed because I was

00:52:31.193 --> 00:52:32.153
trying to take it down.

00:52:32.193 --> 00:52:33.815
But it just said, strange love.

00:52:33.835 --> 00:52:37.177
I was like, this is kind of,

00:52:37.797 --> 00:52:40.018
there's a metaphor in here about my life.

00:52:40.059 --> 00:52:40.880
And I don't really,

00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:42.039
I can't put it together,

00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:42.820
but that's funny.

00:52:43.141 --> 00:52:43.820
This is, this is a,

00:52:44.221 --> 00:52:45.362
I deserve this or this is

00:52:45.402 --> 00:52:46.762
appropriate or something like that.

00:52:46.963 --> 00:52:47.923
Yeah.

00:52:47.943 --> 00:52:49.244
It was my kind of vibe there.

00:52:49.405 --> 00:52:50.804
They build good tools, right?

00:52:50.824 --> 00:52:51.585
So even, even,

00:52:52.606 --> 00:52:54.588
Physical as well as digital.

00:52:54.768 --> 00:52:54.929
Yeah.

00:52:55.329 --> 00:52:55.449
Yeah.

00:52:55.469 --> 00:52:56.451
So they're part of Ando now.

00:52:56.550 --> 00:52:57.693
And then ICL has been

00:52:57.733 --> 00:52:58.673
picking up some stuff there.

00:52:58.713 --> 00:53:02.177
I think ICL is taking over Horcrux, right?

00:53:02.197 --> 00:53:02.378
Yeah.

00:53:02.398 --> 00:53:03.199
Speaking of ICL,

00:53:03.259 --> 00:53:04.740
I saw a friend of the podcast.

00:53:04.780 --> 00:53:06.222
I saw Mags.

00:53:06.242 --> 00:53:06.664
Oh, you did?

00:53:06.704 --> 00:53:07.164
Yeah.

00:53:07.804 --> 00:53:08.445
ACC.

00:53:08.505 --> 00:53:09.065
Yeah.

00:53:09.126 --> 00:53:11.186
I will say like, I mean,

00:53:11.246 --> 00:53:12.007
obviously a few months

00:53:12.027 --> 00:53:13.288
delayed given that ECC was

00:53:13.307 --> 00:53:15.188
like fucking what, three months ago,

00:53:15.208 --> 00:53:15.668
two months ago.

00:53:15.969 --> 00:53:18.010
Um, the cosmos party was pretty good.

00:53:18.469 --> 00:53:20.451
Like, like a lot of the,

00:53:20.490 --> 00:53:21.992
some of the ECC events were

00:53:22.012 --> 00:53:23.233
a total downer, man.

00:53:23.253 --> 00:53:24.072
Like there were just loads

00:53:24.112 --> 00:53:25.313
of people just like, oh my God,

00:53:25.333 --> 00:53:26.474
the end times, the end times.

00:53:26.494 --> 00:53:26.934
Oh my God.

00:53:27.514 --> 00:53:28.494
And the cosmos party was

00:53:28.514 --> 00:53:29.655
like gently positive,

00:53:29.996 --> 00:53:31.757
sat around with a few people caught up,

00:53:31.896 --> 00:53:34.137
caught up with Erteman from, from L five.

00:53:36.405 --> 00:53:37.166
Gently positive.

00:53:37.385 --> 00:53:39.748
That should be the Cosmos subtitle.

00:53:40.369 --> 00:53:41.170
Gently positive.

00:53:41.791 --> 00:53:43.753
I had a good chat with Max.

00:53:43.773 --> 00:53:44.373
Gently positive.

00:53:45.746 --> 00:53:49.708
Got a little bit of miscellaneous merch.

00:53:50.469 --> 00:53:52.030
That's cool.

00:53:52.150 --> 00:53:55.610
Yeah.

00:53:55.630 --> 00:53:56.510
It seems they're doing stuff.

00:53:56.570 --> 00:53:59.132
Although I came off of that

00:53:59.152 --> 00:54:00.793
event feeling very, very positive.

00:54:00.913 --> 00:54:03.353
And then obviously saw all

00:54:03.373 --> 00:54:06.855
of the wasm and cosm wasm and blah, blah,

00:54:06.875 --> 00:54:08.496
blah, blah, blah stuff afterward.

00:54:08.976 --> 00:54:10.757
I was a bit like, ah, this is like...

00:54:11.740 --> 00:54:13.362
Maybe I missed this in the event,

00:54:13.641 --> 00:54:15.782
but this feels like another

00:54:15.822 --> 00:54:16.822
direction change.

00:54:17.003 --> 00:54:18.623
Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:54:19.043 --> 00:54:21.244
Is permissionless Cosmos

00:54:21.804 --> 00:54:23.784
live yet on the hub, or no, not yet?

00:54:24.706 --> 00:54:25.925
No, I think it was only permissioned,

00:54:26.005 --> 00:54:27.226
and now it's going away?

00:54:28.067 --> 00:54:28.327
No, no.

00:54:28.367 --> 00:54:29.266
Is it going away?

00:54:29.286 --> 00:54:30.447
No, it's going to permissionless.

00:54:30.887 --> 00:54:31.887
Oh, it's going to permission.

00:54:32.007 --> 00:54:32.648
Well, I thought it was,

00:54:32.668 --> 00:54:33.929
but I thought there was some other thing,

00:54:33.989 --> 00:54:34.748
right?

00:54:35.608 --> 00:54:35.728
No,

00:54:35.769 --> 00:54:37.210
I don't think it was ever permissioned

00:54:37.250 --> 00:54:37.769
at all on there.

00:54:37.789 --> 00:54:38.731
I thought it was nothing,

00:54:38.771 --> 00:54:39.851
and then they were going permissionless.

00:54:41.072 --> 00:54:42.233
Well, maybe you're thinking of the EVM.

00:54:42.253 --> 00:54:43.693
They're going to add EVM for a while,

00:54:43.733 --> 00:54:44.494
and I think they cut that.

00:54:44.514 --> 00:54:45.114
That went away.

00:54:45.414 --> 00:54:46.856
Yeah.

00:54:46.916 --> 00:54:50.840
Yeah, that process was dumped, right?

00:54:50.860 --> 00:54:51.659
Wasn't there a thing where

00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:53.081
they were going to go EVM

00:54:53.141 --> 00:54:54.501
instead of CosmWasm?

00:54:54.663 --> 00:54:54.983
Correct.

00:54:56.543 --> 00:54:58.324
But now are we back on CosmWasm?

00:54:58.565 --> 00:55:00.987
Permissionless CosmWasm.

00:55:01.007 --> 00:55:01.347
Correct.

00:55:01.367 --> 00:55:01.447
Okay,

00:55:01.487 --> 00:55:03.429
so we've had another U-turn since the

00:55:03.469 --> 00:55:04.190
last U-turn.

00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:04.851
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:04.871 --> 00:55:05.291
Because I think,

00:55:05.670 --> 00:55:06.552
if I remember correctly...

00:55:08.139 --> 00:55:10.202
Mags was on stage at ECC

00:55:10.242 --> 00:55:12.646
talking about EVM on the Cosmos, right?

00:55:13.548 --> 00:55:14.710
Was it there at ECC or

00:55:14.730 --> 00:55:15.592
somewhere else that they

00:55:15.911 --> 00:55:16.773
did a big presentation

00:55:16.793 --> 00:55:18.396
related to EVM on the Cosmos?

00:55:19.217 --> 00:55:20.460
Yeah, so they were at...

00:55:22.264 --> 00:55:24.664
They were at ECC saying they

00:55:24.684 --> 00:55:27.585
were going to migrate from

00:55:27.726 --> 00:55:31.646
CosmWasm to EVM.

00:55:31.847 --> 00:55:33.246
And it was a sovereign EVM day.

00:55:33.327 --> 00:55:34.847
That was the day at the ECC.

00:55:34.967 --> 00:55:36.427
And I was like, fine.

00:55:37.367 --> 00:55:39.289
I prefer CosmWasm, but I can see this.

00:55:39.528 --> 00:55:40.409
This kind of makes sense.

00:55:40.469 --> 00:55:42.170
Yeah, I can see it.

00:55:43.289 --> 00:55:43.969
But then, yeah,

00:55:43.989 --> 00:55:45.210
we've had another U-turn since then.

00:55:45.931 --> 00:55:46.090
Right.

00:55:46.311 --> 00:55:47.192
And then that went away.

00:55:47.731 --> 00:55:49.893
And then I think they let

00:55:49.974 --> 00:55:51.315
governance decide the

00:55:51.375 --> 00:55:52.775
Cosmos structure and

00:55:52.835 --> 00:55:54.336
governance dictated that

00:55:54.356 --> 00:55:56.659
passed related to permissionless.

00:55:57.338 --> 00:55:58.679
I think it's I know it's I

00:55:58.699 --> 00:55:59.820
know it's enabled that provider.

00:55:59.860 --> 00:56:01.442
I know that on the test net,

00:56:01.902 --> 00:56:02.742
but I don't know if it went

00:56:02.822 --> 00:56:03.724
live on main net.

00:56:04.023 --> 00:56:04.764
I don't think so, though.

00:56:05.605 --> 00:56:07.425
But I know it's coming.

00:56:08.967 --> 00:56:09.728
So here we are.

00:56:10.047 --> 00:56:11.608
Yeah.

00:56:11.628 --> 00:56:13.311
I mean, Cosmos is pretty good.

00:56:14.771 --> 00:56:17.472
Yeah, but... Relodge Hal.

00:56:18.452 --> 00:56:19.932
Spaffel the hub.

00:56:20.492 --> 00:56:21.072
But I don't know.

00:56:22.074 --> 00:56:22.893
What I don't know is the

00:56:22.994 --> 00:56:23.713
ownership of Cosmos.

00:56:23.733 --> 00:56:25.014
Because I know Confio,

00:56:25.215 --> 00:56:26.255
I know Simon and team

00:56:27.434 --> 00:56:28.215
basically lost that

00:56:28.255 --> 00:56:30.795
contract with the ICF to deliver that,

00:56:30.835 --> 00:56:30.956
right?

00:56:30.976 --> 00:56:32.157
When they went to the EVM thing.

00:56:33.034 --> 00:56:35.597
And then Neutron alts it or something?

00:56:35.717 --> 00:56:36.237
I don't even know.

00:56:36.277 --> 00:56:37.498
Like, Neutron's involved in some way.

00:56:37.518 --> 00:56:38.099
Wait, what?

00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:38.739
Really?

00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:38.860
Yeah,

00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.681
so I got an email saying that I think

00:56:41.262 --> 00:56:43.364
Confio moved off of Cosmosm.

00:56:43.543 --> 00:56:43.943
They did.

00:56:44.003 --> 00:56:45.724
Possibly Confio have even wound up.

00:56:45.744 --> 00:56:46.746
I don't even know if they're still going.

00:56:46.885 --> 00:56:47.487
No, they're still around.

00:56:47.507 --> 00:56:53.811
Are they still going?

00:56:53.851 --> 00:56:53.972
Yeah.

00:56:53.992 --> 00:56:54.072
Yeah.

00:56:54.092 --> 00:56:54.291
OK.

00:56:54.452 --> 00:56:54.552
Right.

00:56:54.572 --> 00:56:55.954
But then, yeah,

00:56:55.994 --> 00:56:57.034
so what I don't know is I

00:56:57.054 --> 00:56:57.855
don't understand the

00:56:57.914 --> 00:57:00.538
ownership of Cosmosm today.

00:57:01.407 --> 00:57:02.728
I don't think that's ICF or ICL.

00:57:02.768 --> 00:57:03.289
I don't think so.

00:57:05.369 --> 00:57:06.371
And then, so anyway,

00:57:06.510 --> 00:57:07.931
so now we're back to this

00:57:08.112 --> 00:57:09.253
permissionless type of thing.

00:57:09.273 --> 00:57:11.333
So permissionless, I don't know,

00:57:11.353 --> 00:57:13.094
permissionless on the hub

00:57:13.135 --> 00:57:14.275
seems weird to me,

00:57:14.335 --> 00:57:15.757
but I don't really know too

00:57:15.817 --> 00:57:17.297
much about what the hell is

00:57:17.318 --> 00:57:17.797
going to happen.

00:57:17.818 --> 00:57:18.559
We're going to have a lot of

00:57:18.579 --> 00:57:23.621
train holes is what we're going to have.

00:57:23.802 --> 00:57:24.822
One thing I know from Juno

00:57:25.342 --> 00:57:26.242
is- Take it from a guy that

00:57:26.282 --> 00:57:27.443
didn't have a holiday in

00:57:27.463 --> 00:57:28.083
two and a half years.

00:57:28.103 --> 00:57:28.405
Yeah.

00:57:29.594 --> 00:57:30.434
there are going to be a lot

00:57:30.454 --> 00:57:31.393
of channels there's gonna

00:57:31.414 --> 00:57:32.394
be a lot of channels that's

00:57:32.914 --> 00:57:35.414
um yeah I sometimes like

00:57:35.454 --> 00:57:36.775
it's so far in the past I

00:57:36.856 --> 00:57:38.215
sometimes forget why I was

00:57:38.255 --> 00:57:39.396
so stressed in that period

00:57:39.436 --> 00:57:41.336
of my life and now I

00:57:41.396 --> 00:57:44.036
remember that some random

00:57:44.117 --> 00:57:46.418
fucking dude dude writing a

00:57:46.458 --> 00:57:47.597
contract that whatever the

00:57:47.637 --> 00:57:48.719
fuck right it's usually

00:57:48.778 --> 00:57:50.079
accidentally saying fuck

00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:50.958
something up they're

00:57:50.978 --> 00:57:51.778
breaking the test that

00:57:51.798 --> 00:57:52.539
they've done whatever

00:57:52.579 --> 00:57:54.559
whatever whatever whatever yeah and um

00:57:56.226 --> 00:57:57.086
It's one of those, like,

00:57:57.166 --> 00:57:57.987
I keep getting this sort of

00:57:58.007 --> 00:57:59.307
stuff now with the PhD

00:57:59.327 --> 00:58:00.028
things where people are like,

00:58:00.068 --> 00:58:01.389
how will you manage your stress?

00:58:01.429 --> 00:58:02.331
How can you deliver?

00:58:03.090 --> 00:58:05.092
And I'm just like, bro.

00:58:05.112 --> 00:58:06.954
Manage your stress as a PhD student.

00:58:07.514 --> 00:58:08.074
There's loads of,

00:58:08.215 --> 00:58:09.076
cause loads of stuff about

00:58:09.115 --> 00:58:10.277
what I'm having to do now

00:58:10.356 --> 00:58:11.958
is basically like, I've,

00:58:12.097 --> 00:58:13.298
I've done like quite a bit

00:58:13.318 --> 00:58:15.820
of research stuff and backing and like,

00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:16.641
I have like a thesis

00:58:16.681 --> 00:58:17.641
skeleton or the shit that

00:58:17.661 --> 00:58:18.722
you need to do to like move

00:58:18.762 --> 00:58:19.423
forward with your,

00:58:19.764 --> 00:58:20.625
your research and stuff.

00:58:20.965 --> 00:58:21.364
Yeah.

00:58:21.625 --> 00:58:21.764
Um,

00:58:22.858 --> 00:58:24.340
You have submissions to conferences,

00:58:24.380 --> 00:58:25.519
written papers, blah, blah, blah, blah,

00:58:25.539 --> 00:58:25.760
blah.

00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:27.920
But you also have to write

00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:28.880
reports and things for

00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:30.762
these vivas where you're saying,

00:58:31.541 --> 00:58:32.742
this is my strategy for how

00:58:32.802 --> 00:58:34.083
I manage stress and how I

00:58:34.123 --> 00:58:35.884
manage delivering things and blah, blah,

00:58:35.903 --> 00:58:36.344
blah, blah, blah.

00:58:37.003 --> 00:58:38.605
And you're just like, bruh,

00:58:38.625 --> 00:58:40.885
I was a core maintainer of a blockchain.

00:58:40.965 --> 00:58:41.126
Yeah.

00:58:42.826 --> 00:58:44.666
I can't even like this is

00:58:44.806 --> 00:58:47.387
definitely not unstressful

00:58:47.467 --> 00:58:49.947
but like this this is like

00:58:50.068 --> 00:58:57.048
you walk up at ten it's

00:58:57.088 --> 00:58:58.268
just like yeah yeah we have

00:58:58.309 --> 00:59:00.429
deadlines you know fucking

00:59:00.469 --> 00:59:01.730
the deadline for this stuff

00:59:01.769 --> 00:59:03.309
is like oh sometimes

00:59:03.329 --> 00:59:04.070
something comes along you

00:59:04.090 --> 00:59:05.030
got to get it done like

00:59:05.831 --> 00:59:06.972
eight days or nine days and

00:59:06.992 --> 00:59:08.552
you're like yeah sometimes

00:59:08.632 --> 00:59:09.873
page duty wakes me up

00:59:10.155 --> 00:59:11.775
fucking what I am I've had

00:59:11.795 --> 00:59:12.717
that I've had the string of

00:59:12.757 --> 00:59:13.697
the worst fucking pager

00:59:13.717 --> 00:59:16.019
duty at four a.m every like

00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:17.400
three or two two three or

00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:18.621
four like every morning for

00:59:18.641 --> 00:59:19.983
like the last next last not

00:59:20.003 --> 00:59:20.742
in the last two nights but

00:59:21.023 --> 00:59:21.764
every night before that for

00:59:21.784 --> 00:59:22.744
like three or four days

00:59:23.326 --> 00:59:24.547
stupidest fucking thing

00:59:24.706 --> 00:59:26.847
like one dydx no just halts

00:59:27.028 --> 00:59:29.329
just stops and I get and I'm woken up

00:59:30.751 --> 00:59:33.313
uh, osmosis node reboots for some reason.

00:59:33.353 --> 00:59:34.594
And for some reason they're all down.

00:59:34.635 --> 00:59:36.237
So that end points down, I get like,

00:59:36.257 --> 00:59:37.438
I'm like, what the fuck is this thing?

00:59:37.458 --> 00:59:40.581
Like my,

00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:43.202
my life in page duty has become a

00:59:43.284 --> 00:59:44.605
lot more peaceful.

00:59:45.284 --> 00:59:46.646
Now we've just turned off

00:59:46.706 --> 00:59:47.867
the cosmos knows that we're

00:59:47.907 --> 00:59:48.869
making us no money.

00:59:49.108 --> 00:59:50.630
It was great for so long.

00:59:50.670 --> 00:59:52.112
And then this is the last week it's been.

00:59:53.206 --> 00:59:55.827
I did get woken up by a

00:59:55.867 --> 00:59:57.626
completely undiagnosable

00:59:57.706 --> 00:59:59.507
and random network choke on

00:59:59.588 --> 01:00:03.168
Aptos a few weeks ago.

01:00:03.188 --> 01:00:06.210
I was so unhappy about that.

01:00:06.550 --> 01:00:08.230
You know when you get woken

01:00:08.349 --> 01:00:11.090
up and it's just close

01:00:11.130 --> 01:00:12.751
enough to when you actually

01:00:12.831 --> 01:00:13.612
would wake up?

01:00:14.543 --> 01:00:15.704
Your body just goes, hey,

01:00:15.724 --> 01:00:16.925
are we waking up early this morning?

01:00:16.985 --> 01:00:17.586
Okay, cool.

01:00:17.967 --> 01:00:18.889
I'll just flood your body

01:00:18.929 --> 01:00:20.389
with cortisol and you can wake up.

01:00:21.110 --> 01:00:23.353
And then you're just like, oh,

01:00:23.393 --> 01:00:24.815
I'm now just in that kind

01:00:24.876 --> 01:00:27.119
of stressful early wake up

01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:28.920
where you're like, oh shit,

01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:29.842
I've woken up early because

01:00:29.862 --> 01:00:30.463
something's on fire.

01:00:30.483 --> 01:00:31.264
I've got to do something.

01:00:31.784 --> 01:00:32.826
And you're just like, oh...

01:00:34.005 --> 01:00:35.206
but it's actually still like

01:00:35.286 --> 01:00:36.806
nobody else in the house is awake.

01:00:37.487 --> 01:00:38.387
This is useless.

01:00:38.567 --> 01:00:42.748
And I just want to just start working now.

01:00:42.789 --> 01:00:44.070
That feels really shit.

01:00:44.889 --> 01:00:45.630
So you're just like,

01:00:45.751 --> 01:00:47.592
do I go read a book or

01:00:47.632 --> 01:00:48.512
something while I wait for

01:00:48.552 --> 01:00:49.713
everybody to wake up?

01:00:49.793 --> 01:00:50.132
Like,

01:00:52.409 --> 01:00:53.469
Watch YouTube shorts for an

01:00:53.510 --> 01:00:56.610
hour and a half.

01:00:56.670 --> 01:00:57.032
Do you know what?

01:00:57.052 --> 01:00:57.411
It's funny.

01:00:57.472 --> 01:00:58.672
I did actually just watch

01:00:58.731 --> 01:01:00.233
Tom Cardy YouTube shorts.

01:01:01.373 --> 01:01:02.914
I watch YouTube shorts for like two hours.

01:01:02.994 --> 01:01:03.894
I could sit there.

01:01:04.396 --> 01:01:05.076
Do you remember back in the

01:01:05.115 --> 01:01:06.257
day there was that YouTube

01:01:06.277 --> 01:01:07.916
playlist by a guy called

01:01:07.998 --> 01:01:09.838
Epic Donut Dude called the

01:01:09.938 --> 01:01:11.518
Instant Regret Playlist?

01:01:12.699 --> 01:01:13.661
That shit.

01:01:13.681 --> 01:01:15.742
I could watch even to this day.

01:01:15.862 --> 01:01:17.402
I could watch Instant Regret.

01:01:18.664 --> 01:01:20.644
forever it's just it's just

01:01:20.684 --> 01:01:22.365
like the deepest darkest

01:01:22.385 --> 01:01:23.547
like subconscious liminal

01:01:23.586 --> 01:01:24.527
brain of the internet

01:01:24.547 --> 01:01:28.108
that's that shit's wild um

01:01:28.369 --> 01:01:29.329
you know apart from like

01:01:29.630 --> 01:01:31.150
grousing about a few

01:01:31.170 --> 01:01:32.472
different things like we

01:01:32.492 --> 01:01:33.112
haven't even talked about

01:01:33.172 --> 01:01:34.492
like you know your country

01:01:34.532 --> 01:01:35.552
has completely changed its

01:01:35.572 --> 01:01:36.833
stance on crypto several

01:01:36.873 --> 01:01:39.534
times right in the last you

01:01:39.554 --> 01:01:40.416
like things like things are

01:01:40.436 --> 01:01:41.876
moving right yeah

01:01:43.780 --> 01:01:45.800
Well, as in like, you know,

01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:46.661
we've started the podcast,

01:01:46.681 --> 01:01:47.681
but even the last few months,

01:01:47.721 --> 01:01:49.041
like apart from the fact

01:01:49.061 --> 01:01:50.661
the world economy is like, you know,

01:01:50.681 --> 01:01:53.882
crashing, um, which is,

01:01:54.023 --> 01:01:55.242
it turns out not good for crypto.

01:01:55.563 --> 01:01:59.164
So, you know, oops, but, uh, you know,

01:01:59.244 --> 01:02:00.844
things are moving in that direction.

01:02:00.985 --> 01:02:01.724
That's a big change.

01:02:01.844 --> 01:02:02.545
Things are moving.

01:02:02.985 --> 01:02:04.206
Nobody's actually concerned

01:02:04.226 --> 01:02:05.846
that we're based in the U S anymore,

01:02:06.005 --> 01:02:08.327
which is that part's positive at least.

01:02:09.186 --> 01:02:10.686
Yeah.

01:02:10.746 --> 01:02:10.887
Yeah.

01:02:10.907 --> 01:02:11.688
That part's positive.

01:02:12.467 --> 01:02:12.507
Um,

01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:17.182
Yeah, I mean, this country has issues,

01:02:17.682 --> 01:02:21.786
but at least from a crypto perspective,

01:02:22.827 --> 01:02:23.907
I would say there's a lot

01:02:24.007 --> 01:02:27.570
less oversight and

01:02:27.731 --> 01:02:29.512
watchdogging related to

01:02:29.572 --> 01:02:31.653
things that either we do or

01:02:31.753 --> 01:02:33.596
some of the tool sets and

01:02:33.775 --> 01:02:35.257
products coming out of the U.S.

01:02:35.277 --> 01:02:35.978
associated to that.

01:02:37.458 --> 01:02:37.719
Obviously,

01:02:37.739 --> 01:02:39.621
from an ETF perspective and just...

01:02:41.262 --> 01:02:43.804
restaking and the F and from

01:02:43.844 --> 01:02:45.463
the sec perspective, like all that,

01:02:45.643 --> 01:02:47.644
a lot of that shit is like gone away.

01:02:47.925 --> 01:02:48.105
Right.

01:02:48.184 --> 01:02:49.844
Like at least from a open,

01:02:50.065 --> 01:02:51.126
open suits and things like that,

01:02:51.166 --> 01:02:53.025
obviously have, have disappeared.

01:02:53.467 --> 01:02:56.266
Um, so, but I, but I don't know,

01:02:56.286 --> 01:02:57.407
there's not necessarily clarity.

01:02:57.688 --> 01:02:58.728
I wouldn't say that, but at least,

01:02:58.748 --> 01:03:00.869
at least there's, at least there was less,

01:03:00.889 --> 01:03:03.088
um, I don't know.

01:03:03.148 --> 01:03:03.889
How would you describe it?

01:03:03.989 --> 01:03:05.230
She'll see, like there's less,

01:03:07.050 --> 01:03:08.851
there's less, uh,

01:03:09.963 --> 01:03:11.465
I don't know, important people oversight?

01:03:12.126 --> 01:03:12.766
Law and order?

01:03:13.686 --> 01:03:14.068
Yeah.

01:03:15.148 --> 01:03:15.690
Yeah.

01:03:15.710 --> 01:03:16.851
That might be the problem, right?

01:03:16.871 --> 01:03:19.213
There's less law and order in crypto,

01:03:19.233 --> 01:03:20.255
but there's also less law

01:03:20.275 --> 01:03:22.396
and order in the entire country.

01:03:22.717 --> 01:03:22.838
No,

01:03:22.898 --> 01:03:24.079
there's more law and order in the

01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:24.760
entire country.

01:03:24.780 --> 01:03:25.681
There's less law and order

01:03:25.740 --> 01:03:27.744
where if there's law and order,

01:03:28.264 --> 01:03:29.826
it's not related to making money.

01:03:32.246 --> 01:03:33.867
Yeah, I did see that National Guard thing.

01:03:34.527 --> 01:03:35.869
There's more law and order

01:03:35.969 --> 01:03:37.289
away from making a dollar.

01:03:38.349 --> 01:03:39.269
If there's things to be made

01:03:39.309 --> 01:03:44.213
or markets to be grown or opportunity,

01:03:44.253 --> 01:03:45.934
those restrictions are decreasing.

01:03:46.514 --> 01:03:47.914
Away from that idea,

01:03:48.034 --> 01:03:50.315
those restrictions are increasing, right?

01:03:50.655 --> 01:03:50.996
Yeah.

01:03:51.056 --> 01:03:52.936
Immigration, this, that.

01:03:53.356 --> 01:03:53.938
That's different.

01:03:54.518 --> 01:03:57.398
But related to the almighty

01:03:57.438 --> 01:03:58.539
dollar and the growth of

01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:00.420
the economy and the growth of...

01:04:01.371 --> 01:04:02.652
GDP, if you want to say that,

01:04:02.713 --> 01:04:04.454
or growth of new markets or

01:04:04.875 --> 01:04:06.317
competition or those types of things,

01:04:06.496 --> 01:04:10.360
that is greatly decreasing.

01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:10.800
Is that fair?

01:04:11.342 --> 01:04:11.621
I don't know.

01:04:11.641 --> 01:04:12.222
I just made that up,

01:04:12.242 --> 01:04:13.023
but it kind of seems like

01:04:13.123 --> 01:04:16.568
that's a macro look at it.

01:04:16.628 --> 01:04:18.829
Well, I mean, it also includes like, well,

01:04:19.010 --> 01:04:20.052
I don't want to get into politics.

01:04:20.112 --> 01:04:20.351
God.

01:04:21.684 --> 01:04:23.304
yeah fair play uh I wouldn't

01:04:23.344 --> 01:04:24.545
if I were you guys too it's

01:04:24.626 --> 01:04:25.887
okay I mean if there's one

01:04:25.907 --> 01:04:26.447
thing I've learned about

01:04:26.487 --> 01:04:27.588
american politics is every

01:04:27.628 --> 01:04:28.748
time british people get

01:04:28.788 --> 01:04:29.929
complacent about american

01:04:29.969 --> 01:04:31.590
politics we end up creating

01:04:31.610 --> 01:04:32.811
a bigger dumpster fire

01:04:33.090 --> 01:04:34.211
about two to three years

01:04:34.391 --> 01:04:37.034
after you do so well we're

01:04:37.074 --> 01:04:37.974
currently in the situation

01:04:38.034 --> 01:04:39.574
where I gather I don't read

01:04:39.594 --> 01:04:41.275
the news um but people in

01:04:41.295 --> 01:04:42.217
the office were telling me

01:04:42.257 --> 01:04:44.197
that apparently there's just like

01:04:45.644 --> 01:04:47.927
loads of right wing like

01:04:48.286 --> 01:04:50.148
like fashy kind of youths

01:04:50.349 --> 01:04:51.528
just like putting union

01:04:51.570 --> 01:04:52.610
jacks everywhere and then

01:04:52.650 --> 01:04:54.472
people are just like oh

01:04:54.532 --> 01:04:55.492
it's just the union jack

01:04:55.512 --> 01:04:56.612
it's probably harmless and

01:04:56.632 --> 01:04:57.454
then when people actually

01:04:57.494 --> 01:05:00.155
like go hey dude why are

01:05:00.235 --> 01:05:01.577
you spray painting a union

01:05:01.617 --> 01:05:04.898
jack in this roundabout in

01:05:04.918 --> 01:05:06.179
the middle of nowhere just

01:05:06.219 --> 01:05:07.661
for reasons is it just like

01:05:07.681 --> 01:05:08.661
for thing then they get

01:05:09.041 --> 01:05:10.422
being up and it's like ah

01:05:10.463 --> 01:05:12.003
this is like some fashy thing

01:05:14.574 --> 01:05:17.456
just it's like just like why

01:05:17.556 --> 01:05:18.257
whatever and you're just

01:05:18.297 --> 01:05:19.458
like ah this is the kind of

01:05:19.478 --> 01:05:20.458
shit that was happening in

01:05:20.498 --> 01:05:21.719
like the thirties in

01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:23.081
germany I don't like it

01:05:24.521 --> 01:05:26.704
maybe time to that's how

01:05:26.724 --> 01:05:29.045
brexit started right well

01:05:29.186 --> 01:05:29.985
the thing is like brexit

01:05:30.005 --> 01:05:31.226
was like the people who

01:05:31.246 --> 01:05:32.568
were kind of dumb enough to

01:05:32.827 --> 01:05:33.748
to think that any could

01:05:33.789 --> 01:05:34.969
come out of brexit were the

01:05:35.050 --> 01:05:36.371
ones who are saying like oh

01:05:36.411 --> 01:05:37.452
well at least it's like a

01:05:37.612 --> 01:05:38.713
pressure valve and

01:05:39.465 --> 01:05:41.027
will calm the demands for

01:05:41.126 --> 01:05:42.586
this that and the other and

01:05:42.626 --> 01:05:43.788
you know an impulse towards

01:05:43.827 --> 01:05:45.869
authoritarianism and it's

01:05:45.889 --> 01:05:51.231
like well no because you

01:05:51.271 --> 01:05:52.150
need to actually address

01:05:52.190 --> 01:05:53.331
problems in your country in

01:05:53.351 --> 01:05:54.751
your economy right

01:05:54.811 --> 01:05:56.012
otherwise people continue

01:05:56.032 --> 01:05:58.273
to get angrier and if real

01:05:58.313 --> 01:05:59.673
wages stay stagnant and if

01:05:59.693 --> 01:06:02.034
a wealth inequality keeps rising then

01:06:02.815 --> 01:06:03.016
you know,

01:06:03.076 --> 01:06:03.876
people are going to continue to

01:06:03.916 --> 01:06:04.438
get angrier.

01:06:04.918 --> 01:06:06.139
And the funny thing is, right,

01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:07.501
the people who supported Brexit the most,

01:06:07.521 --> 01:06:08.302
the people who are funding

01:06:08.342 --> 01:06:10.324
the far right in the UK are

01:06:10.465 --> 01:06:12.568
overwhelmingly ex-bankers

01:06:12.688 --> 01:06:14.170
who literally don't even live in the UK.

01:06:14.190 --> 01:06:15.351
A lot of them are non-doms.

01:06:16.485 --> 01:06:18.045
they are the ultra wealthy

01:06:18.206 --> 01:06:19.768
who stand to benefit from

01:06:20.007 --> 01:06:20.989
the uk becoming like a

01:06:21.268 --> 01:06:22.130
massive tax haven

01:06:22.170 --> 01:06:23.871
essentially and the

01:06:23.911 --> 01:06:25.793
consequences and so there's

01:06:25.853 --> 01:06:26.693
this weird thing where they

01:06:26.833 --> 01:06:27.795
you know they benefit

01:06:27.815 --> 01:06:28.496
essentially from just

01:06:28.775 --> 01:06:29.876
continuing this cycle of

01:06:29.976 --> 01:06:31.617
anger and deprivation

01:06:32.179 --> 01:06:33.960
personally and they're just

01:06:34.061 --> 01:06:35.222
hoping that the music will

01:06:35.262 --> 01:06:37.443
never stop like the they'll never

01:06:38.351 --> 01:06:39.550
be lacking a chair when the

01:06:39.590 --> 01:06:40.371
music finally stops,

01:06:40.391 --> 01:06:41.672
they won't end up against the wall.

01:06:42.192 --> 01:06:43.913
And it's like, well, actually, like,

01:06:44.413 --> 01:06:45.293
I wouldn't make that bet.

01:06:45.313 --> 01:06:46.333
Look at the French Revolution,

01:06:46.353 --> 01:06:47.213
look at Ceausescu,

01:06:47.233 --> 01:06:48.414
look at the fall of communism.

01:06:48.454 --> 01:06:52.074
Like when the music stops,

01:06:52.094 --> 01:06:53.195
quite often you do end up

01:06:53.215 --> 01:06:54.036
against the wall.

01:06:54.356 --> 01:06:55.115
It's just that a lot of

01:06:55.155 --> 01:06:56.277
people have to suffer and

01:06:56.356 --> 01:06:57.697
potentially die in the meantime.

01:06:57.737 --> 01:06:59.538
It's a very short sighted strategy.

01:07:00.731 --> 01:07:02.773
to get five percent extra of

01:07:02.813 --> 01:07:03.833
your money rather than

01:07:03.873 --> 01:07:05.054
paying ten percent extra in

01:07:05.094 --> 01:07:06.896
tax or whatever like it's

01:07:07.056 --> 01:07:08.938
very very dumb and it never

01:07:08.978 --> 01:07:11.860
works in the long run which

01:07:11.900 --> 01:07:13.081
is why it's just like why

01:07:13.561 --> 01:07:14.402
remind me why we're doing

01:07:14.422 --> 01:07:15.563
this again like I thought

01:07:15.583 --> 01:07:16.945
we pretty conclusively

01:07:16.985 --> 01:07:18.507
tested this hypothesis last

01:07:19.367 --> 01:07:21.528
last century turns out it

01:07:21.548 --> 01:07:23.831
was bad to do flashy things

01:07:23.851 --> 01:07:26.833
I think that idea of in the

01:07:26.873 --> 01:07:27.755
long run is dead

01:07:29.045 --> 01:07:30.726
Yeah, like everything here,

01:07:31.045 --> 01:07:33.108
at least at least here is

01:07:33.768 --> 01:07:35.489
it's all extremely short

01:07:35.528 --> 01:07:37.289
term with very little like

01:07:37.349 --> 01:07:38.210
we'll deal with it when we

01:07:38.231 --> 01:07:39.751
deal with it now now.

01:07:41.971 --> 01:07:43.351
there, there, there's a balance there.

01:07:43.490 --> 01:07:44.172
Like, cause that,

01:07:44.251 --> 01:07:45.771
that strategy is not necessarily bad.

01:07:45.992 --> 01:07:46.132
Right.

01:07:46.172 --> 01:07:48.112
But that is a, that's a,

01:07:48.132 --> 01:07:49.213
that's kind of like just

01:07:49.273 --> 01:07:50.353
move fast and break things

01:07:50.373 --> 01:07:51.554
and we'll figure it out and blah, blah,

01:07:51.574 --> 01:07:51.793
blah.

01:07:51.833 --> 01:07:51.994
Right.

01:07:52.054 --> 01:07:52.414
Like there's,

01:07:52.534 --> 01:07:54.034
there's pieces of that that are,

01:07:54.974 --> 01:07:56.956
are viable because you get the other way,

01:07:56.976 --> 01:07:57.936
which is like, you, you're,

01:07:58.056 --> 01:07:59.155
you're basically analysis

01:07:59.275 --> 01:08:00.597
like paralysis by analysis,

01:08:00.617 --> 01:08:02.097
which is the opposite of that,

01:08:02.117 --> 01:08:02.797
which it means like you're,

01:08:03.036 --> 01:08:03.577
you're doing so much

01:08:03.617 --> 01:08:04.498
analysis related to a

01:08:04.557 --> 01:08:05.398
problem that you actually

01:08:05.418 --> 01:08:06.157
can't make a decision.

01:08:06.378 --> 01:08:07.818
And there's balances between those two.

01:08:07.878 --> 01:08:09.298
And, and,

01:08:09.518 --> 01:08:10.800
and right now it's definitely going,

01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:12.742
the former, which is like,

01:08:13.181 --> 01:08:15.385
fuck it fucking.

01:08:15.965 --> 01:08:16.907
We're just going to drop things.

01:08:16.926 --> 01:08:17.447
We're going to make,

01:08:17.487 --> 01:08:18.207
we're not going to think

01:08:18.228 --> 01:08:18.889
through these problems.

01:08:18.948 --> 01:08:19.329
We're going,

01:08:19.409 --> 01:08:20.530
that's a whole doge thing here

01:08:20.551 --> 01:08:21.032
in the U S like,

01:08:21.051 --> 01:08:21.953
we'll just cut these people.

01:08:22.052 --> 01:08:22.332
Fuck it.

01:08:22.393 --> 01:08:22.934
We'll figure it out.

01:08:23.194 --> 01:08:24.195
If they need it, then we'll,

01:08:24.275 --> 01:08:25.516
if something breaks, we'll bring it back.

01:08:25.556 --> 01:08:25.717
Right.

01:08:26.944 --> 01:08:30.689
Um, and, and I think that, that idea, uh,

01:08:30.729 --> 01:08:33.273
like, you know, that extends pretty far.

01:08:34.073 --> 01:08:36.096
Um, and then the latest thing,

01:08:36.117 --> 01:08:37.498
which not to get too political,

01:08:37.519 --> 01:08:38.279
but this idea, like,

01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:39.721
I don't like the numbers or

01:08:39.742 --> 01:08:40.582
I don't like the information.

01:08:40.603 --> 01:08:41.524
So I'm just going to fire whoever,

01:08:41.604 --> 01:08:42.985
whoever who's on the other end of that.

01:08:43.606 --> 01:08:43.787
And.

01:08:44.547 --> 01:08:45.689
and that's the solution to

01:08:45.969 --> 01:08:48.930
solving the problem, which is, which is,

01:08:49.109 --> 01:08:50.251
uh, we're,

01:08:50.291 --> 01:08:51.350
we're not going to use a third

01:08:51.390 --> 01:08:52.591
party source or trust any

01:08:52.971 --> 01:08:53.511
thing that comes out.

01:08:53.532 --> 01:08:53.972
We're just going to,

01:08:54.012 --> 01:08:55.634
whoever doesn't say the

01:08:55.673 --> 01:08:56.774
party line is going to get termed.

01:08:56.894 --> 01:08:58.335
That's a fucking dangerous slope though.

01:08:58.895 --> 01:08:59.595
That's bad news.

01:09:00.435 --> 01:09:00.555
Yeah.

01:09:00.576 --> 01:09:01.976
That's pretty bad news.

01:09:01.997 --> 01:09:02.377
Bad news.

01:09:02.617 --> 01:09:02.777
Yeah.

01:09:03.037 --> 01:09:03.556
That's bad news.

01:09:03.617 --> 01:09:05.177
Although I do think that that doesn't,

01:09:05.217 --> 01:09:05.939
that doesn't necessarily

01:09:05.958 --> 01:09:06.738
have a long life.

01:09:07.418 --> 01:09:08.199
I honestly don't think that,

01:09:08.972 --> 01:09:10.934
that, that can go for very, very long.

01:09:10.974 --> 01:09:11.675
Like eventually that,

01:09:11.755 --> 01:09:12.595
that shit catches up.

01:09:13.335 --> 01:09:15.256
Cause I mean the numbers, the numbers are,

01:09:15.356 --> 01:09:16.317
if the numbers are reality,

01:09:16.356 --> 01:09:17.417
you'll see that in other ways.

01:09:18.426 --> 01:09:19.447
I mean,

01:09:19.487 --> 01:09:20.528
eventually the other sheet is going

01:09:20.547 --> 01:09:21.467
to drop, right?

01:09:21.988 --> 01:09:22.429
Yes.

01:09:22.469 --> 01:09:25.171
So literally, for Bandcamp,

01:09:25.650 --> 01:09:26.390
I got an email to my

01:09:26.411 --> 01:09:28.171
Bandcamp account today saying, hey,

01:09:28.193 --> 01:09:28.552
by the way,

01:09:28.592 --> 01:09:29.252
if you're a Bandcamp

01:09:29.273 --> 01:09:30.054
subscriber and you're in

01:09:30.073 --> 01:09:30.913
the United States,

01:09:31.314 --> 01:09:32.274
you should be aware that

01:09:32.375 --> 01:09:33.555
lots of global shippers are

01:09:33.576 --> 01:09:34.617
now no longer shipping

01:09:34.817 --> 01:09:36.738
small merchandise items like T-shirts,

01:09:36.917 --> 01:09:38.099
CDs, vinyls, whatever.

01:09:38.238 --> 01:09:40.119
Actually, I think technically,

01:09:40.220 --> 01:09:41.600
depending on which jurisdiction you're in,

01:09:41.940 --> 01:09:42.782
vinyls and CDs might

01:09:42.822 --> 01:09:44.283
actually be exempt under a

01:09:44.342 --> 01:09:46.064
certain US restriction,

01:09:46.123 --> 01:09:47.244
but the global shipping...

01:09:48.462 --> 01:09:49.788
Uh, yeah, but, but, but I think,

01:09:50.190 --> 01:09:50.913
but I think globally.

01:09:52.306 --> 01:09:52.447
Yeah,

01:09:52.466 --> 01:09:54.188
I think global shipping companies

01:09:54.588 --> 01:09:56.170
don't want to figure it out

01:09:56.189 --> 01:09:56.850
because it's too expensive

01:09:57.371 --> 01:09:58.270
to look at the parcel and

01:09:58.310 --> 01:09:58.891
figure out what it is.

01:09:58.912 --> 01:10:00.453
So they just like blanket fucking no.

01:10:00.832 --> 01:10:01.793
They basically was just saying, hey,

01:10:01.833 --> 01:10:02.493
if you're based in the US,

01:10:02.514 --> 01:10:03.175
you should be aware that

01:10:03.395 --> 01:10:04.716
lots of shops are probably

01:10:04.796 --> 01:10:05.837
not committed to ship to you.

01:10:06.176 --> 01:10:07.217
And it might be because the

01:10:07.257 --> 01:10:08.319
shop doesn't want to deal with it.

01:10:08.578 --> 01:10:09.279
It might be because they

01:10:09.319 --> 01:10:11.201
can't find something to ship to you.

01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:12.881
We've enabled a feature to

01:10:13.242 --> 01:10:14.443
just toggle and basically

01:10:14.462 --> 01:10:15.663
say that you can sell

01:10:15.703 --> 01:10:16.444
everywhere in the world,

01:10:16.465 --> 01:10:17.564
but you can't sell to the US.

01:10:17.585 --> 01:10:18.345
You can just toggle that

01:10:18.386 --> 01:10:19.587
feature on in Bandcamp now.

01:10:20.846 --> 01:10:21.627
And it's just saying, hey,

01:10:21.688 --> 01:10:22.568
if you're based in the US,

01:10:22.608 --> 01:10:23.108
you should know that

01:10:23.127 --> 01:10:24.488
perhaps not every artist

01:10:24.509 --> 01:10:26.210
will be aware of this or store.

01:10:26.270 --> 01:10:27.029
So you should be aware that

01:10:27.069 --> 01:10:28.210
maybe you just shouldn't buy stuff.

01:10:30.110 --> 01:10:30.831
And you're like, okay,

01:10:30.850 --> 01:10:31.471
this is where we are.

01:10:31.511 --> 01:10:31.692
Like,

01:10:31.872 --> 01:10:33.712
maybe you shouldn't buy stuff on the

01:10:33.792 --> 01:10:34.252
internet.

01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:36.860
Because it might not ever

01:10:36.940 --> 01:10:38.542
arrive because the person

01:10:38.582 --> 01:10:44.488
might not be able to ship it to you.

01:10:44.509 --> 01:10:45.170
But hey, you know,

01:10:45.289 --> 01:10:46.470
on the plus side in the UK,

01:10:46.490 --> 01:10:47.893
we finally have regulatory

01:10:47.912 --> 01:10:49.975
character around exchange traded notes,

01:10:49.994 --> 01:10:51.515
which means rank and file

01:10:51.537 --> 01:10:52.337
investors will have

01:10:53.257 --> 01:10:55.460
um very easy access once

01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:57.140
implemented to um uh

01:10:58.761 --> 01:11:00.222
essentially a pseudo asset

01:11:00.283 --> 01:11:01.382
which represents major

01:11:01.403 --> 01:11:02.043
cryptocurrencies what's

01:11:02.064 --> 01:11:06.046
that mean um it's just like

01:11:06.086 --> 01:11:07.027
everything else in britain

01:11:07.067 --> 01:11:08.408
it's a massive complicated

01:11:08.427 --> 01:11:09.389
fudge to get around the

01:11:09.408 --> 01:11:10.488
fact that you can't do a

01:11:10.529 --> 01:11:12.671
thing but so what can't the

01:11:12.711 --> 01:11:13.872
people want to do the thing

01:11:13.891 --> 01:11:14.872
so we'll find a way of

01:11:14.992 --> 01:11:15.993
doing the thing but with

01:11:16.052 --> 01:11:18.835
more regulation yeah uh

01:11:18.854 --> 01:11:20.176
people want to hold crypto assets

01:11:21.135 --> 01:11:22.336
ordinary people get wrecked

01:11:22.515 --> 01:11:23.796
so they've basically done

01:11:23.837 --> 01:11:24.476
the same thing as like

01:11:24.516 --> 01:11:25.457
essentially accredited

01:11:25.478 --> 01:11:26.457
investor thing in the US

01:11:26.478 --> 01:11:27.859
where you can hold crypto

01:11:27.918 --> 01:11:29.020
assets if you already hold

01:11:29.060 --> 01:11:30.460
them or if you're an

01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:31.921
accredited investor or

01:11:31.961 --> 01:11:35.382
you're a business but then

01:11:35.422 --> 01:11:37.024
like other people how do

01:11:37.043 --> 01:11:37.784
they hold them it's like

01:11:37.824 --> 01:11:39.024
well exchange traded notes

01:11:39.064 --> 01:11:39.926
is like it's the same as

01:11:39.966 --> 01:11:41.207
like an ETF essentially or

01:11:41.226 --> 01:11:42.707
whatever where you say oh I

01:11:42.726 --> 01:11:43.948
have exposure to this asset

01:11:43.988 --> 01:11:44.708
but I don't actually hold

01:11:44.729 --> 01:11:45.509
the assets held by an

01:11:45.529 --> 01:11:47.770
institution and of course

01:11:47.810 --> 01:11:48.850
the institutions will then make

01:11:52.586 --> 01:11:54.487
So yeah,

01:11:54.527 --> 01:11:57.507
I'm sure just in time for the PhD

01:11:57.528 --> 01:12:01.168
to be completed and all these,

01:12:01.229 --> 01:12:02.630
all these timelines are kind of, they are,

01:12:03.130 --> 01:12:03.989
I mean, to be fair,

01:12:04.649 --> 01:12:05.590
these timelines are

01:12:05.671 --> 01:12:06.570
aligning a little bit.

01:12:07.211 --> 01:12:07.890
Like we talked about this,

01:12:07.911 --> 01:12:08.810
like you going into this

01:12:08.931 --> 01:12:10.212
area and like going after, um,

01:12:11.027 --> 01:12:13.648
stables in the idea of of uh

01:12:13.667 --> 01:12:15.809
digital currencies as use

01:12:15.828 --> 01:12:17.248
and like like your timing

01:12:17.328 --> 01:12:18.189
is right on though right

01:12:19.409 --> 01:12:20.171
because like whatever's

01:12:20.211 --> 01:12:21.190
gonna happen whatever's

01:12:21.211 --> 01:12:22.350
gonna happen here is gonna

01:12:22.411 --> 01:12:25.311
be somewhat positive or

01:12:25.332 --> 01:12:30.734
negatively either either

01:12:30.795 --> 01:12:32.914
perfect or a total disaster

01:12:33.215 --> 01:12:34.155
within the next four years

01:12:34.853 --> 01:12:35.854
yeah exactly we agree on

01:12:35.873 --> 01:12:39.496
that well so yeah exactly

01:12:39.515 --> 01:12:40.556
right either you've

01:12:40.577 --> 01:12:41.717
completely wasted the last

01:12:41.738 --> 01:12:44.219
five years of your life or

01:12:44.819 --> 01:12:45.800
you've made the smartest

01:12:45.819 --> 01:12:46.881
decision that you possibly

01:12:46.900 --> 01:12:48.742
could at the right time you

01:12:48.761 --> 01:12:50.363
will figure that out by

01:12:51.363 --> 01:12:56.587
twenty twenty nine yeah I

01:12:56.608 --> 01:12:58.229
mean honestly that's a but

01:12:59.045 --> 01:13:00.627
I joke about it, but like nobody,

01:13:01.127 --> 01:13:02.510
it's very rare that you're

01:13:02.550 --> 01:13:03.572
putting that you can

01:13:03.631 --> 01:13:05.814
actually have a position to

01:13:05.854 --> 01:13:08.878
have this type of not a coin flip.

01:13:08.918 --> 01:13:10.041
Like you're just not a coin flip.

01:13:10.060 --> 01:13:10.962
Like it's not fifty fifty.

01:13:11.002 --> 01:13:12.064
Like it's going the right way.

01:13:12.784 --> 01:13:14.426
But like it's going the right way.

01:13:14.506 --> 01:13:15.028
It's going the right way.

01:13:16.007 --> 01:13:17.170
Um, how else,

01:13:17.229 --> 01:13:18.612
like how many times in life

01:13:18.631 --> 01:13:19.292
does that happen?

01:13:19.332 --> 01:13:20.793
Where like you had this

01:13:21.114 --> 01:13:23.637
massive cultural shift and

01:13:23.677 --> 01:13:24.838
you're building an

01:13:24.958 --> 01:13:27.703
expertise as being a

01:13:28.182 --> 01:13:29.425
thought leader in an area

01:13:29.465 --> 01:13:30.645
that just happened to

01:13:30.707 --> 01:13:32.569
arrive when you did.

01:13:32.649 --> 01:13:33.350
It's fucking crazy.

01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:36.280
Yeah, but I mean,

01:13:36.301 --> 01:13:37.041
that's kind of like our

01:13:37.060 --> 01:13:38.442
whole thesis for all our businesses,

01:13:38.481 --> 01:13:39.342
right?

01:13:39.462 --> 01:13:39.762
No,

01:13:39.962 --> 01:13:41.963
I'm just trying to avoid going to an

01:13:42.024 --> 01:13:42.363
office.

01:13:42.444 --> 01:13:44.466
That's really what it's about.

01:13:44.525 --> 01:13:45.206
On some level, isn't it?

01:13:45.265 --> 01:13:47.568
Basically, we got into this,

01:13:47.608 --> 01:13:48.507
or at least I got into this,

01:13:48.547 --> 01:13:49.269
because I was in the right

01:13:49.288 --> 01:13:50.109
place at the right time.

01:13:50.649 --> 01:13:52.189
And then after that, you were just like,

01:13:52.289 --> 01:13:52.570
okay.

01:13:53.451 --> 01:13:54.511
You end up with a set of

01:13:54.532 --> 01:13:55.573
things that you know where

01:13:55.613 --> 01:13:57.675
you can do that other people don't have.

01:13:57.694 --> 01:13:59.095
That's competitive advantage.

01:13:59.497 --> 01:13:59.856
Sure.

01:14:00.398 --> 01:14:01.618
And then you just try and run with that.

01:14:01.998 --> 01:14:02.840
That's my understanding of

01:14:02.859 --> 01:14:03.680
how business works.

01:14:03.841 --> 01:14:07.444
This possibly why I'm bad at business.

01:14:07.463 --> 01:14:07.744
Well,

01:14:09.185 --> 01:14:10.667
it's a mix of doing very strategic

01:14:10.707 --> 01:14:12.429
things to at some point get

01:14:12.488 --> 01:14:14.291
lucky enough where luck goes your way.

01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:16.801
Because it is a mix of strategy and luck,

01:14:16.942 --> 01:14:17.122
right?

01:14:17.141 --> 01:14:19.764
Yeah, but luck is the bigger of the two,

01:14:19.844 --> 01:14:21.284
I think.

01:14:21.305 --> 01:14:21.725
Well,

01:14:22.286 --> 01:14:23.947
you also have to be prepared for good

01:14:23.987 --> 01:14:24.186
luck.

01:14:24.728 --> 01:14:26.248
That has to happen too, right?

01:14:26.949 --> 01:14:28.230
Meaning, you thought about this.

01:14:28.430 --> 01:14:31.252
You've been two years into this process.

01:14:31.854 --> 01:14:34.395
Two years ago, when you brought this up,

01:14:34.435 --> 01:14:37.078
I think... No,

01:14:37.177 --> 01:14:37.958
I guess we were supportive.

01:14:37.979 --> 01:14:38.958
I was going to say we weren't supportive,

01:14:38.979 --> 01:14:39.680
but we were supportive.

01:14:39.899 --> 01:14:42.742
If you're not going to do it now,

01:14:42.801 --> 01:14:43.622
when are you going to do it?

01:14:43.643 --> 01:14:44.444
Exactly.

01:14:45.338 --> 01:14:46.680
yeah when you have young

01:14:46.699 --> 01:14:47.761
kids and everything's kind

01:14:47.780 --> 01:14:48.521
of fucked anyway it's

01:14:48.561 --> 01:14:49.523
probably the time to do it

01:14:50.543 --> 01:14:51.725
yeah because once you're

01:14:51.744 --> 01:14:52.466
back once you're back

01:14:52.605 --> 01:14:53.527
walking it once you're back

01:14:53.546 --> 01:14:55.168
to killing it at work and

01:14:55.229 --> 01:14:56.470
in life in general you can

01:14:56.510 --> 01:14:57.952
be like why would I abandon

01:14:58.011 --> 01:15:00.253
that to well you're at a

01:15:00.293 --> 01:15:00.994
point where you're like

01:15:01.055 --> 01:15:02.815
you're all in like what

01:15:02.896 --> 01:15:04.297
like what else like not

01:15:04.318 --> 01:15:04.918
that you have nothing else

01:15:04.939 --> 01:15:05.838
to lose you that's not true

01:15:05.859 --> 01:15:07.060
because you always get different jobs

01:15:07.698 --> 01:15:08.859
But you're at a point where

01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:09.600
if you're not going to do it now,

01:15:09.619 --> 01:15:10.240
you're not going to do it.

01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:11.061
So you might as well do it.

01:15:12.082 --> 01:15:12.582
Yeah, for sure.

01:15:13.283 --> 01:15:14.863
But I mean, yeah.

01:15:15.965 --> 01:15:18.327
I think really specifically, right,

01:15:18.367 --> 01:15:19.087
if you want to talk about

01:15:19.207 --> 01:15:20.809
where we are as a sector,

01:15:20.828 --> 01:15:21.288
and I've been thinking

01:15:21.309 --> 01:15:22.250
about this a lot recently, right,

01:15:22.289 --> 01:15:24.251
because a lot of the stuff

01:15:24.270 --> 01:15:25.171
I'm working on is like

01:15:26.140 --> 01:15:28.442
permissioned in the future.

01:15:29.141 --> 01:15:30.203
But a lot of the analysis

01:15:30.262 --> 01:15:31.643
I'm doing is of the systems

01:15:31.662 --> 01:15:32.262
we currently have,

01:15:32.283 --> 01:15:33.104
which are permissionless.

01:15:33.703 --> 01:15:34.524
And I think there's going to

01:15:34.543 --> 01:15:36.364
be a really interesting point, basically,

01:15:36.404 --> 01:15:37.345
for those of us that have

01:15:37.585 --> 01:15:39.065
some element of cypherpunk

01:15:39.246 --> 01:15:41.947
still in us that want to

01:15:42.006 --> 01:15:43.528
think it's possible to

01:15:46.536 --> 01:15:48.658
coordinate without central,

01:15:48.877 --> 01:15:50.458
without necessarily like, you know,

01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:52.079
all the checks and balances and yada,

01:15:52.140 --> 01:15:52.859
yada, yada, yada.

01:15:53.201 --> 01:15:56.462
And I think this is why, like, as an aside,

01:15:56.483 --> 01:15:57.262
I think this is why like

01:15:57.463 --> 01:15:58.644
redefining what crypto

01:15:58.663 --> 01:16:00.225
assets actually are saying, look,

01:16:00.326 --> 01:16:01.987
is it a form of community credit?

01:16:02.426 --> 01:16:04.047
Is it da, da, da, da, da,

01:16:04.108 --> 01:16:05.229
because it's obviously not money.

01:16:05.349 --> 01:16:06.670
It's not secured by anything.

01:16:06.789 --> 01:16:07.831
It's too volatile.

01:16:08.777 --> 01:16:10.476
But really clearly defining

01:16:10.677 --> 01:16:11.417
what it is we're trying to

01:16:11.438 --> 01:16:12.478
do with these incentive systems.

01:16:12.818 --> 01:16:13.978
Are we just going to do them

01:16:13.997 --> 01:16:14.759
with crypto assets?

01:16:14.779 --> 01:16:15.418
In which case, fine.

01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:17.118
It's possibly something akin

01:16:17.139 --> 01:16:19.739
to community credit and

01:16:20.420 --> 01:16:22.201
multilateral community credit reform,

01:16:22.320 --> 01:16:23.360
not capital C credit,

01:16:23.421 --> 01:16:25.582
but just a simplified version of credit.

01:16:27.362 --> 01:16:28.381
Is it something that needs money?

01:16:28.442 --> 01:16:29.002
In which case, yeah,

01:16:29.061 --> 01:16:29.903
we need a stable coin.

01:16:29.983 --> 01:16:30.662
We need something else.

01:16:30.682 --> 01:16:31.162
We need something with

01:16:31.222 --> 01:16:33.923
stable value linked to entropy, blah,

01:16:33.944 --> 01:16:34.444
blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:16:35.043 --> 01:16:37.265
But like that understanding I think is,

01:16:37.404 --> 01:16:38.024
is happening.

01:16:38.085 --> 01:16:38.845
Like you're seeing that

01:16:38.904 --> 01:16:39.666
we've seen that we've

01:16:39.685 --> 01:16:40.445
talked about on the podcast

01:16:40.466 --> 01:16:42.006
with the development of stable coins and,

01:16:42.086 --> 01:16:42.166
and,

01:16:42.286 --> 01:16:44.487
and you were just alluding it to that,

01:16:44.646 --> 01:16:46.228
you know, right place in the right time,

01:16:46.747 --> 01:16:48.207
possibly for all of us to

01:16:48.247 --> 01:16:49.649
now like take advantage of that.

01:16:49.948 --> 01:16:50.748
But like, what's really,

01:16:50.788 --> 01:16:51.869
really interesting to me is

01:16:51.930 --> 01:16:52.770
whether or not there is

01:16:52.810 --> 01:16:54.029
still legs or there is a

01:16:54.189 --> 01:16:57.091
life in the future for the

01:16:57.110 --> 01:16:58.572
permissionless ecosystem in

01:16:58.612 --> 01:16:59.832
its current form or in a

01:16:59.872 --> 01:17:00.972
different form or with the

01:17:01.012 --> 01:17:01.872
different assets.

01:17:02.951 --> 01:17:04.171
Because that to me is the

01:17:04.351 --> 01:17:05.853
most interesting question in crypto,

01:17:05.893 --> 01:17:06.092
right?

01:17:06.554 --> 01:17:10.096
Is a CBDC is kind of boring.

01:17:10.157 --> 01:17:11.438
It's necessary, but boring.

01:17:12.418 --> 01:17:14.341
A stable coin is necessary, but boring.

01:17:14.381 --> 01:17:15.282
It's just private money.

01:17:15.301 --> 01:17:16.362
It's the same as Visa

01:17:17.663 --> 01:17:19.064
sequencing your transactions for you,

01:17:19.104 --> 01:17:19.305
right?

01:17:19.345 --> 01:17:20.265
The money is actually kind

01:17:20.286 --> 01:17:22.006
of flowing via a clearance network.

01:17:22.027 --> 01:17:23.028
It's not really money.

01:17:23.047 --> 01:17:23.809
It's private money.

01:17:25.850 --> 01:17:29.094
Whether you can do the...

01:17:30.815 --> 01:17:31.475
Whether you can do the

01:17:31.515 --> 01:17:32.296
permissionless thing and

01:17:32.396 --> 01:17:33.537
actually also have stable

01:17:33.578 --> 01:17:34.838
means of exchange is the

01:17:34.939 --> 01:17:36.680
only interesting question in crypto to me,

01:17:37.100 --> 01:17:38.680
I think, honestly.

01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:40.903
Can you program incentive systems,

01:17:41.042 --> 01:17:42.384
automated incentive systems

01:17:42.444 --> 01:17:43.423
with human intervention?

01:17:43.444 --> 01:17:43.944
Because that's what we've

01:17:43.965 --> 01:17:44.885
seen in the cosmos, right?

01:17:45.164 --> 01:17:46.445
Build DAOs and they will

01:17:46.485 --> 01:17:50.069
come and they will manipulate the ledger.

01:17:51.269 --> 01:17:52.310
And maybe that's fine

01:17:52.729 --> 01:17:56.552
because every human system gets changed.

01:17:57.673 --> 01:17:58.073
Yeah.

01:17:59.287 --> 01:18:00.368
But can we turn those

01:18:00.387 --> 01:18:01.309
systems into something

01:18:01.569 --> 01:18:03.570
useful with more stable

01:18:03.610 --> 01:18:05.771
value with better tooling?

01:18:07.012 --> 01:18:07.833
I think there is still a

01:18:07.873 --> 01:18:08.594
problem there and there is

01:18:08.613 --> 01:18:09.654
still a possibility there.

01:18:09.675 --> 01:18:11.917
And I just don't know the

01:18:11.957 --> 01:18:12.957
answer because it's a big

01:18:12.997 --> 01:18:14.259
question for smart people to me.

01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:16.060
But that's the thing I think

01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:16.900
about all the time now.

01:18:17.081 --> 01:18:17.360
I'm like,

01:18:17.421 --> 01:18:18.261
is there a future for the

01:18:18.282 --> 01:18:19.301
permissions ecosystem?

01:18:19.462 --> 01:18:19.922
I think it's really

01:18:19.983 --> 01:18:21.083
interesting and it matters.

01:18:22.163 --> 01:18:25.046
It might... Well, I don't know.

01:18:25.067 --> 01:18:26.707
It seems like that would be phase...

01:18:28.409 --> 01:18:30.551
We built these permissionless systems.

01:18:31.431 --> 01:18:35.454
We modeled an ecosystem that

01:18:35.515 --> 01:18:36.996
creates those situations to

01:18:37.036 --> 01:18:37.756
make that possible.

01:18:39.037 --> 01:18:40.698
Then it becomes viable

01:18:40.738 --> 01:18:42.279
enough that you have large

01:18:42.300 --> 01:18:43.440
financial institutions that

01:18:44.121 --> 01:18:45.442
discard all that and copy

01:18:45.462 --> 01:18:47.462
it and build their own permission systems,

01:18:47.724 --> 01:18:49.185
right?

01:18:49.204 --> 01:18:49.965
Which means the answer to

01:18:49.984 --> 01:18:50.826
your question is no.

01:18:52.527 --> 01:18:54.828
And then the next iteration

01:18:56.020 --> 01:18:56.400
People say,

01:18:56.461 --> 01:18:57.362
why the fuck isn't this

01:18:57.402 --> 01:18:59.144
integrating or why isn't

01:18:59.163 --> 01:19:00.005
this visible or something else?

01:19:00.024 --> 01:19:01.145
And maybe that comes back

01:19:01.185 --> 01:19:03.948
around where we take on

01:19:04.069 --> 01:19:07.472
some of the original thesis

01:19:08.412 --> 01:19:10.074
and re-inject that into

01:19:10.095 --> 01:19:11.115
something that is... Right.

01:19:11.395 --> 01:19:12.957
This is back to the heart of it, right?

01:19:13.398 --> 01:19:14.800
You all know my thesis about, right?

01:19:15.717 --> 01:19:16.658
why do we care about

01:19:16.719 --> 01:19:18.619
decentralization what is

01:19:18.680 --> 01:19:20.201
the thing it makes us feel

01:19:20.220 --> 01:19:22.943
good yeah right right it

01:19:22.983 --> 01:19:24.024
makes me feel great to feel

01:19:24.064 --> 01:19:24.623
like there's a hundred and

01:19:24.644 --> 01:19:25.604
seventy-five validators on

01:19:25.625 --> 01:19:26.466
the network I'd say that

01:19:26.485 --> 01:19:28.646
for nothing uh hundred and

01:19:28.667 --> 01:19:29.707
fifty not so much but a

01:19:29.747 --> 01:19:30.587
hundred and seventy-five

01:19:30.889 --> 01:19:33.050
it's like the drake meme

01:19:33.069 --> 01:19:34.131
it's like hundred and fifty

01:19:34.610 --> 01:19:36.533
hundred and seventy-five let's go

01:19:37.542 --> 01:19:38.804
But like, you know, it's like,

01:19:39.083 --> 01:19:40.725
obviously it's not systemic resilience.

01:19:40.845 --> 01:19:41.567
Exactly.

01:19:41.827 --> 01:19:43.347
It's kind of like a performative.

01:19:43.368 --> 01:19:44.810
It's like decentralization theater, right?

01:19:44.829 --> 01:19:46.051
We all talk about that all the time.

01:19:46.591 --> 01:19:47.412
And it's not resilient.

01:19:47.431 --> 01:19:48.592
It's not like immutability

01:19:48.613 --> 01:19:49.774
because we rewrite ledgers

01:19:49.793 --> 01:19:50.895
all the time for loads of reasons.

01:19:51.735 --> 01:19:52.396
So it's like, okay,

01:19:52.457 --> 01:19:54.018
well it's something else.

01:19:54.037 --> 01:19:54.418
Like, it's like,

01:19:54.779 --> 01:19:55.880
I have this idea that I

01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:56.900
know other people have had it too.

01:19:56.940 --> 01:19:58.502
It's not just mine, but like this idea,

01:19:58.521 --> 01:20:00.144
it's just opportunism, right?

01:20:00.163 --> 01:20:00.904
That's the first thing that

01:20:00.925 --> 01:20:01.886
Satoshi wrote about in the

01:20:01.926 --> 01:20:02.926
fucking Bitcoin era.

01:20:03.777 --> 01:20:04.396
white paper, right?

01:20:04.436 --> 01:20:06.078
It's just opportunistic stealing.

01:20:06.279 --> 01:20:08.119
That's the minimum threshold

01:20:08.420 --> 01:20:09.199
that people care about.

01:20:09.621 --> 01:20:10.560
You can't just steal

01:20:10.600 --> 01:20:11.601
something because you feel like it.

01:20:12.242 --> 01:20:13.363
That's the minimum level of trust.

01:20:13.662 --> 01:20:14.043
And actually,

01:20:14.344 --> 01:20:16.045
if we get ten thousand people saying,

01:20:16.104 --> 01:20:17.104
well, we're going to steal your thing,

01:20:17.445 --> 01:20:18.645
it legitimizes itself.

01:20:18.725 --> 01:20:19.606
So I don't know that

01:20:19.627 --> 01:20:21.167
immutability is a thing we care about.

01:20:21.448 --> 01:20:21.929
I don't know that

01:20:21.948 --> 01:20:22.828
decentralization has a

01:20:22.889 --> 01:20:24.029
fixed meaning that we care about.

01:20:24.310 --> 01:20:24.850
I think the thing that

01:20:24.869 --> 01:20:25.591
probably we give a shit

01:20:25.610 --> 01:20:28.332
about is ownership and it's like agency,

01:20:28.393 --> 01:20:28.592
right?

01:20:29.132 --> 01:20:30.774
we want to have agency over

01:20:30.854 --> 01:20:32.835
our ownership of the asset over the thing,

01:20:32.895 --> 01:20:33.095
right?

01:20:33.154 --> 01:20:33.996
And we don't feel like we

01:20:34.015 --> 01:20:36.056
have ownership or at the very least,

01:20:36.077 --> 01:20:36.957
we don't feel like we have

01:20:37.096 --> 01:20:39.099
agency in other parts of the economy.

01:20:39.698 --> 01:20:40.399
And that's why

01:20:40.458 --> 01:20:41.819
permissionlessness is an

01:20:41.960 --> 01:20:43.161
interesting problem that

01:20:43.180 --> 01:20:44.542
still has a life to it.

01:20:44.681 --> 01:20:48.264
I think because agency, political agency,

01:20:48.423 --> 01:20:50.585
economic agency, access to money,

01:20:50.704 --> 01:20:52.966
access to opportunity have

01:20:53.046 --> 01:20:54.146
always been the only ball

01:20:54.167 --> 01:20:55.967
game in town for policy.

01:20:57.445 --> 01:20:59.287
I guess at some level or one

01:20:59.306 --> 01:21:00.247
of the most is the, is the,

01:21:00.287 --> 01:21:01.407
is the economy stupid, right?

01:21:01.426 --> 01:21:02.807
It's that same political argument.

01:21:02.828 --> 01:21:04.328
I don't know.

01:21:04.347 --> 01:21:06.109
So permissionlessness, I don't know.

01:21:06.189 --> 01:21:08.850
I really hope we still, I really hope,

01:21:08.890 --> 01:21:09.250
like you say,

01:21:09.270 --> 01:21:10.649
we can take the tools that

01:21:10.689 --> 01:21:12.051
we develop in this period

01:21:14.270 --> 01:21:15.112
and turn them into

01:21:15.131 --> 01:21:16.171
something more interesting

01:21:16.311 --> 01:21:17.572
and more inclusive than

01:21:17.612 --> 01:21:20.453
just visa run stable coins.

01:21:20.792 --> 01:21:21.734
Cause who cares if these are

01:21:21.774 --> 01:21:22.634
unstable coins, man.

01:21:23.331 --> 01:21:24.731
Unless Visa want to work with our company,

01:21:24.752 --> 01:21:25.231
in which case,

01:21:25.311 --> 01:21:26.431
we will absolutely consult for you.

01:21:26.452 --> 01:21:28.432
We know lots about stable

01:21:28.472 --> 01:21:29.833
coins and decentralization.

01:21:30.514 --> 01:21:31.755
Info at InnoCast.com.

01:21:32.194 --> 01:21:32.675
Exactly.

01:21:33.796 --> 01:21:35.957
It's such a fine line

01:21:35.976 --> 01:21:37.777
between stupid and clever.

01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:43.699
It really is.

01:21:45.341 --> 01:21:46.280
Oh, dear.

01:21:46.320 --> 01:21:46.541
You know...

01:21:49.123 --> 01:21:51.064
The idea of chase or

01:21:51.104 --> 01:21:52.225
whatever else using a stable,

01:21:52.404 --> 01:21:54.206
like it's such a fine line,

01:21:54.225 --> 01:21:57.186
like between permission

01:21:57.207 --> 01:21:58.346
list to permission from

01:21:58.386 --> 01:21:59.068
their perspective.

01:21:59.087 --> 01:22:01.368
I mean, there's ownership there.

01:22:01.448 --> 01:22:01.707
I get it.

01:22:01.768 --> 01:22:03.588
But in the grand scheme of it,

01:22:03.628 --> 01:22:04.689
it's such a fine line.

01:22:04.750 --> 01:22:09.371
Like, and, and, and from, I don't know.

01:22:09.430 --> 01:22:11.011
And those guys are literally, you know,

01:22:11.072 --> 01:22:11.771
they are.

01:22:13.481 --> 01:22:15.202
if anything goes wrong at the moment,

01:22:15.462 --> 01:22:16.103
they're using public

01:22:16.122 --> 01:22:17.542
blockchains to do various

01:22:17.603 --> 01:22:18.302
pilots and whatever.

01:22:18.603 --> 01:22:20.724
Oh yeah, they are.

01:22:21.003 --> 01:22:22.764
They literally have a

01:22:22.823 --> 01:22:24.085
Postgres database running.

01:22:24.104 --> 01:22:24.845
If anything goes wrong,

01:22:24.885 --> 01:22:26.845
they're just going to go, okay,

01:22:27.065 --> 01:22:28.065
let's abandon the source of

01:22:28.086 --> 01:22:29.006
truth of the blockchain and

01:22:29.046 --> 01:22:29.905
check Postgres.

01:22:29.985 --> 01:22:31.167
Like, you know, they are, of course,

01:22:32.127 --> 01:22:32.686
but it's like, you know,

01:22:32.707 --> 01:22:33.546
for the rest of us that

01:22:33.567 --> 01:22:34.807
don't want an intermediary,

01:22:34.887 --> 01:22:36.268
like it's back to the, like,

01:22:37.595 --> 01:22:38.655
It's back to the boring shit,

01:22:38.695 --> 01:22:40.877
the basis points, the actual inclusion,

01:22:40.936 --> 01:22:42.177
the actual transactions.

01:22:42.257 --> 01:22:44.739
It's back to privacy, confidentiality,

01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:46.801
all that kind of stuff that

01:22:46.841 --> 01:22:48.822
people talked about in the

01:22:48.902 --> 01:22:50.682
early days of cryptocurrencies.

01:22:51.184 --> 01:22:52.144
All of those things are

01:22:52.224 --> 01:22:54.765
still relevant and true and important.

01:22:55.126 --> 01:22:59.128
It's just that we... I don't know.

01:23:00.550 --> 01:23:01.710
People say that are important,

01:23:01.770 --> 01:23:03.731
but we'll give that up instantly.

01:23:04.844 --> 01:23:07.206
For convenience or for some

01:23:07.225 --> 01:23:08.667
other type of structure, right?

01:23:09.969 --> 01:23:10.189
Like,

01:23:11.409 --> 01:23:14.092
it's tough to live your life by those

01:23:14.172 --> 01:23:17.015
rules in those situations, right?

01:23:17.034 --> 01:23:18.355
Because you end up,

01:23:18.395 --> 01:23:19.618
you're forced to give those things up,

01:23:19.658 --> 01:23:19.837
like,

01:23:20.457 --> 01:23:23.280
at the smallest point of making

01:23:23.301 --> 01:23:24.521
something easier or making something,

01:23:24.801 --> 01:23:25.023
you know,

01:23:25.382 --> 01:23:26.564
more straightforward or easier

01:23:26.583 --> 01:23:27.545
to understand or whatever else.

01:23:29.059 --> 01:23:31.202
Yeah, no, I would agree with that.

01:23:31.261 --> 01:23:34.766
But we have HTTPS everywhere, right?

01:23:35.427 --> 01:23:36.989
There are sometimes examples

01:23:37.090 --> 01:23:38.372
of when these things do

01:23:38.412 --> 01:23:39.212
just start working.

01:23:39.273 --> 01:23:41.076
Like internet carriers just

01:23:41.115 --> 01:23:42.578
carrying each other's traffic.

01:23:44.039 --> 01:23:45.782
Sometimes a solution...

01:23:47.332 --> 01:23:48.672
the infrastructure or the

01:23:48.734 --> 01:23:49.814
rails that lead to a

01:23:49.895 --> 01:23:53.479
solution working become the

01:23:53.520 --> 01:23:55.222
path of least resistance

01:23:55.283 --> 01:23:56.725
and actually do facilitate

01:23:56.765 --> 01:23:58.027
a better outcome for everybody.

01:23:58.046 --> 01:23:59.569
And, you know, you're talking,

01:23:59.588 --> 01:24:00.930
you're talking earlier about like, oh,

01:24:01.310 --> 01:24:02.172
long-term thinking has gone

01:24:02.212 --> 01:24:02.814
out the window.

01:24:03.333 --> 01:24:04.034
Well, you know what,

01:24:04.314 --> 01:24:05.636
like the most important

01:24:05.657 --> 01:24:06.717
part of long-term thinking

01:24:06.778 --> 01:24:08.680
is belief that another world is possible.

01:24:08.859 --> 01:24:09.881
And that sounds cheesy,

01:24:09.921 --> 01:24:11.103
but I think actually it's very,

01:24:11.143 --> 01:24:12.123
very relevant for where we

01:24:12.184 --> 01:24:14.025
are as a space where it's just like, okay,

01:24:14.405 --> 01:24:15.087
I think there are actually

01:24:15.106 --> 01:24:17.109
some very harsh lessons we

01:24:17.128 --> 01:24:18.210
have to look at with where

01:24:18.229 --> 01:24:19.912
we are currently in permission systems.

01:24:19.952 --> 01:24:20.592
We all know about it.

01:24:20.613 --> 01:24:21.173
We've been talking about

01:24:21.194 --> 01:24:22.135
this podcast for years

01:24:22.694 --> 01:24:24.056
about the good and the bad.

01:24:25.011 --> 01:24:25.310
But it's like,

01:24:25.351 --> 01:24:26.573
we can also imagine a future

01:24:26.613 --> 01:24:28.115
where we solve some of

01:24:28.136 --> 01:24:29.256
those problems and we still

01:24:29.398 --> 01:24:30.639
continue doing a cool thing.

01:24:30.899 --> 01:24:32.442
Like that's entirely possible.

01:24:32.481 --> 01:24:33.444
We just have to imagine it

01:24:33.644 --> 01:24:34.345
and then we can do it.

01:24:35.225 --> 01:24:36.427
Like, yeah.

01:24:36.448 --> 01:24:38.650
Like you go solve those problems.

01:24:38.711 --> 01:24:39.112
And then like,

01:24:40.948 --> 01:24:42.911
Okay, so whatever.

01:24:43.752 --> 01:24:44.091
One of us.

01:24:44.393 --> 01:24:45.252
I could use a bit of help.

01:24:45.313 --> 01:24:46.354
The royal we.

01:24:46.494 --> 01:24:47.314
Yeah, we'll solve it.

01:24:47.335 --> 01:24:50.457
Sure.

01:24:50.497 --> 01:24:51.599
But you know, the most important thing,

01:24:51.760 --> 01:24:52.460
can we just say,

01:24:52.539 --> 01:24:53.581
that happened during the

01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:56.144
summer break was Rhino got a new logo.

01:24:56.184 --> 01:24:57.925
We did.

01:24:58.126 --> 01:24:58.586
That's it.

01:24:59.411 --> 01:25:00.231
It's a pretty cool new logo.

01:25:00.252 --> 01:25:01.932
And it no longer looks like

01:25:02.092 --> 01:25:04.335
the concrete company that

01:25:04.994 --> 01:25:06.095
were doing work at the

01:25:06.115 --> 01:25:07.256
building site down the road.

01:25:07.537 --> 01:25:08.318
No longer looks like the

01:25:08.398 --> 01:25:10.259
bollards that I saw in the

01:25:10.298 --> 01:25:14.381
park or the punch bag.

01:25:15.203 --> 01:25:16.783
What is the negative space in the Rhino?

01:25:16.804 --> 01:25:17.805
That's what I've been trying

01:25:17.824 --> 01:25:20.246
to figure out.

01:25:20.286 --> 01:25:22.408
Oh, maybe it's a finger or something.

01:25:23.988 --> 01:25:24.590
Is it phallic?

01:25:24.649 --> 01:25:25.250
Maybe it's phallic.