WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome to Game and Nodes,

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a weekly podcast from

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independent validator teams.

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This week we have Nalon,

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who's going to be talking

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all about his time racing

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boats in Australia.

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He is by his own account,

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and I quote from the

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pre-show conversation, a salty sea dog.

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So no, joking aside,

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we have fellow validator

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PFC with us on the podo.

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Um, increasing our Australian quota by.

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One hundred percent for those counting.

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Hey,

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most people don't think I'm Australian

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when I'm in Australia,

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they actually think I'm American,

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which is kind of weird.

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Hey, why do they think that?

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Yeah, I don't buy it for a second.

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Don't buy it for a second.

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I was, you know, in downtown Queensland,

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uh, you know,

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going to places and they

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actually thought I was a Yank.

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know it but when I'm in

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america they think I'm

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english so go go figure do

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you know when I've been in

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america like I have been

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called australian a whole

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bunch of times what is with

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yeah really yeah yeah like

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I distinctly remember like

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uh like amongst a bunch

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it's happened several times

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like it happened on train

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once but like really

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distinctly I remember being

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a giants game in san

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francisco and the guy in

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the row behind us like

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tapped me on the shoulder

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and was just like hey you

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guys from australia and I

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was like no we're okay I'm

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gonna piece together why

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this probably is bluey is

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an extremely popular kids

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tv show and it's australian

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and you guys say a lot of

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stuff similar to us in

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terms of the lingo and I

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think they're probably

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picking up on your lingo

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and linking you to being australian

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so it's true americans

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aren't very educated right

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but seventeen years ago

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that that was I think

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that's pre-bluey an island

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and it was this was just

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decidedly australian this

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was a middle-aged black

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gentleman drinking beer at

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a ball game I mean I don't

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think he was like prime bluey

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demo I mean he probably had

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kids but like I think he

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was maybe I don't know I

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think he's representing the

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bluey demo I think uh

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that's what it's targeted to

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Or is it like My Little Pony

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where middle-aged men also

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watch it or whatever?

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Mate, the fairy thing is real.

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But the storyline.

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Just watch the storyline, man.

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It's no big deal.

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Yeah, I mean,

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I guess there's quite a bit

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of slang in common between

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Brits and Aussies.

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In PFC, to be honest,

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you sound a little bit like,

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I can kind of see maybe that in Oz,

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people would be like,

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have you been away somewhere?

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Because you have a little bit of that.

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There's a lot of Australians in London.

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And you have a little bit of

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that East Coast Australian

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living in London for quite

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a while accent about you.

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Yeah.

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Logs, sorry.

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Americans don't understand

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anywhere not American.

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I think they just flip a

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coin about where you're from.

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Was he going to say something?

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No.

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it's like um they really

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don't maybe I don't know uh

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if your microphone's up

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dude we can just find oh to

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see even australians can't

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hear me that's how bad my

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accent is my speakers just

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explode I don't know this

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is really sensational

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welcome welcome again to

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professional podcasts

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As frequent viewers and

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listeners may recall,

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we took a break to professionalize,

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to think about how we were

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going to move this forward.

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And this is the result.

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But hey, look,

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we're less than four minutes in.

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We've already talked to our guests.

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We've acknowledged our guests.

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This is the new

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professionalism you can

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come to expect from us.

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PFC, we know you from working in Cosmos.

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Yeah.

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Is that your home ecosystem?

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Is that the first area that

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you... How did you get into validating?

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What's the deal with that?

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There was a guy called Pete.

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I know Pete.

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Yeah.

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And he just kept on telling

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me about this chain called Luna.

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So if we, if the, the first thing,

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the first way I got

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introduced to Luna was via

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a D and D game.

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It was all about the moon.

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So Pete created this D and D game.

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They had the moon and all

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this kind of stuff.

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And that's how we, you know, this,

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you know,

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I was working with him at the time and,

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uh, he introduced me to Luna.

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I said, nah, that's forget about it.

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Three months later, I was, you know,

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tracking the price of it off.

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I'm a.

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Oh, fuck.

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And basically I should have

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grabbed it in then.

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And I went in and made a

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validator because there was

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like fifteen validators or

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twenty validators at the time.

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So I was twenty one.

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Got in there, learnt it,

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ran on a little knock to start with.

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And that was how I got into

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the Cosmos world.

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Validated number two was Injective,

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maybe six months afterwards.

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So

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know it was all good uh and

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slowly but surely uh you

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know just learnt um

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different things and just

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expanded and you know got

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that and yeah and then luna

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went all to as I'm not

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going to revisit that one

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and just as I was getting

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to into the lido validus

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validator set too which kind of irked me

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because they were the ones

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who basically had all the anchor lending.

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All the deposits were

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sitting in Lido based validators.

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That's where they tell you.

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And I was just about to get

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into just about to look at, you know,

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retirement and yachts and whatever.

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And it all went down.

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So, yeah, but luckily for me,

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injective went from four bucks, I think,

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to twenty at the time and save my bacon.

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I think there's quite a bit

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from validators that have

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ridden out the bear market.

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Like quite a common story is like, oh,

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no matter how many networks you run,

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at any given time,

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there's one that's doing well,

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one that's absorbing the

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majority of your effort

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while not doing well,

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and then a miscellaneous

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school of cats that you

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heard that are mainly

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shitting on your carpet.

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Yeah,

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the good old one dollar a week

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validators.

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They generate one dollar a week,

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and you look at them and go,

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Why?

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I'm not going to mention

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Chihuahua by name or Star Wars.

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Some people did make money off Chihuahua.

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Yeah, they did.

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I mean,

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I'm pretty sure that King knows Big

00:07:11.495 --> 00:07:12.235
Bull's blockchain.

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He did.

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We've had discussions about it.

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He made his money and

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There are other ones like

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Coogee where you make a

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dollar and then they do a

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token drop or an airdrop

00:07:24.694 --> 00:07:26.855
based on you being a

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validator and just making

00:07:28.156 --> 00:07:30.656
like twenty to thirty K in one day.

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So, you know, yeah,

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you didn't get that one.

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That was the nutsack one.

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I've got an airdrop.

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Yeah.

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Make the money.

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Yeah.

00:07:43.178 --> 00:07:44.939
So I made money said no.

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So what?

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I didn't get the email.

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No, I just got the token drop.

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But yeah, so it's interesting.

00:07:55.903 --> 00:07:57.225
It's getting way more competitive.

00:07:58.185 --> 00:08:01.146
And every time there's a new test net,

00:08:01.166 --> 00:08:01.867
there's like a million

00:08:01.927 --> 00:08:03.507
people joining or jumping in.

00:08:03.608 --> 00:08:05.829
And yeah, it's an interesting game,

00:08:07.108 --> 00:08:08.189
as I'm sure you guys are aware.

00:08:08.949 --> 00:08:09.170
Yeah.

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What's your feeling about

00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:12.170
how things are changing at the moment?

00:08:12.572 --> 00:08:13.591
What are the challenges that

00:08:13.632 --> 00:08:15.673
you're seeing as an independent operator?

00:08:17.848 --> 00:08:17.927
Uh,

00:08:17.947 --> 00:08:20.569
it's more just reach or business

00:08:20.589 --> 00:08:21.129
development.

00:08:21.230 --> 00:08:22.310
You have to be able to know

00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:23.411
when the chains come up and

00:08:23.432 --> 00:08:24.833
you have to form like

00:08:24.853 --> 00:08:25.814
little communities to

00:08:25.874 --> 00:08:27.375
actually be aware of when things come in.

00:08:28.355 --> 00:08:30.536
Um, and it's, uh, networking.

00:08:31.918 --> 00:08:34.299
So on a non-cosmos chain,

00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:35.160
I've got somebody reached

00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:36.182
out to me and said, Hey,

00:08:36.201 --> 00:08:37.523
I've heard you're good.

00:08:38.302 --> 00:08:39.624
Would you mind validating, you know,

00:08:39.644 --> 00:08:40.605
six months later on their

00:08:40.625 --> 00:08:43.466
test net and they went main and it's, uh,

00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:45.990
a nice little winner that was, uh,

00:08:46.029 --> 00:08:46.230
you know,

00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:48.410
getting six to a thousand bucks a month,

00:08:48.711 --> 00:08:51.392
sorry, a week on that and still doing it.

00:08:51.412 --> 00:08:52.392
And that's non-cosmos.

00:08:52.412 --> 00:08:53.152
And that was just an

00:08:53.231 --> 00:08:54.152
introduction that somebody

00:08:54.192 --> 00:08:56.572
made based on friendship or

00:08:56.613 --> 00:08:58.932
whatever in that, um,

00:08:58.972 --> 00:09:00.974
friendship or whatever, being again,

00:09:01.254 --> 00:09:04.835
a fantastically Aussie way of looking.

00:09:04.914 --> 00:09:06.154
Yeah.

00:09:06.514 --> 00:09:09.196
And, um, yeah, so it's that, I mean,

00:09:09.216 --> 00:09:10.796
the actual technical component

00:09:12.053 --> 00:09:13.394
isn't as challenging anymore.

00:09:13.455 --> 00:09:15.015
I mean, running the first one or two,

00:09:15.336 --> 00:09:16.037
after you've run them for a

00:09:16.076 --> 00:09:17.477
couple of months, for me, it was more,

00:09:18.197 --> 00:09:19.399
you start getting experience.

00:09:19.418 --> 00:09:21.039
You learn new things as it goes along,

00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:23.761
but it's more about, for me,

00:09:23.802 --> 00:09:25.121
it's more about just optimizing.

00:09:26.143 --> 00:09:28.183
How can you actually squeeze

00:09:28.424 --> 00:09:29.605
yet another validator on

00:09:29.926 --> 00:09:32.126
the same node and they still perform?

00:09:32.167 --> 00:09:33.087
And how do you make sure

00:09:33.107 --> 00:09:34.788
you're current with, I don't know,

00:09:34.948 --> 00:09:36.409
Kubernetes ingress hacks

00:09:37.289 --> 00:09:38.591
before they get hacked?

00:09:39.030 --> 00:09:39.971
Thank you, by the way, Rhino,

00:09:39.991 --> 00:09:40.351
for that one.

00:09:40.371 --> 00:09:41.413
No worries.

00:09:41.793 --> 00:09:43.014
that was that was a fun day

00:09:43.573 --> 00:09:45.235
and uh then it's the joy of

00:09:45.554 --> 00:09:46.615
you know waking up at three

00:09:46.676 --> 00:09:49.017
a.m for uh oh you know for

00:09:49.076 --> 00:09:50.357
a good old ibc

00:09:50.597 --> 00:09:51.977
vulnerability and just how

00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:53.859
do you go how do you do

00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:55.019
upgrades across you know

00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:55.921
twenty different chains or

00:09:55.941 --> 00:09:56.860
fifteen different chains

00:09:57.380 --> 00:09:58.322
all at the same time while

00:09:58.522 --> 00:09:59.602
while retaining the sanity

00:10:00.962 --> 00:10:02.504
what possessed you to start

00:10:02.583 --> 00:10:04.945
using kubernetes that seems

00:10:04.965 --> 00:10:05.885
like so much overkill to me

00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:08.841
I was running individually

00:10:08.880 --> 00:10:11.402
on single machines and just managing it.

00:10:11.761 --> 00:10:12.822
And I had previous

00:10:12.881 --> 00:10:13.863
experience with Kubernetes.

00:10:15.363 --> 00:10:16.503
So I used to work at a

00:10:16.604 --> 00:10:19.043
company with EOS on there.

00:10:19.183 --> 00:10:20.945
And they were a very strong

00:10:20.985 --> 00:10:22.044
Kubernetes culture there.

00:10:22.166 --> 00:10:23.745
So I learned that and I knew it.

00:10:24.566 --> 00:10:27.086
And I just installed it on

00:10:27.187 --> 00:10:28.807
three boxes and just kept on moving.

00:10:30.849 --> 00:10:32.729
The challenge with it is

00:10:32.769 --> 00:10:34.629
basically the dis-scheduling for me.

00:10:35.546 --> 00:10:36.846
Everything else just works.

00:10:36.866 --> 00:10:38.107
I mean, um,

00:10:39.128 --> 00:10:40.969
I have my configurations in Git.

00:10:41.269 --> 00:10:42.629
I basically, if I do an upgrade,

00:10:42.669 --> 00:10:43.350
I can basically,

00:10:43.591 --> 00:10:44.871
I build up the Docker container.

00:10:45.451 --> 00:10:46.613
I upgrade the Git version to

00:10:46.653 --> 00:10:48.734
point to it and that's about it.

00:10:48.774 --> 00:10:51.875
Uh, so it doesn't use Cosmovisor.

00:10:51.895 --> 00:10:53.135
It uses something slightly different.

00:10:54.937 --> 00:10:56.378
What is the actual challenge

00:10:56.418 --> 00:10:57.499
with disk scheduling?

00:10:59.341 --> 00:11:01.782
Is it like an IOPS thing,

00:11:01.802 --> 00:11:02.841
just making sure that

00:11:02.861 --> 00:11:03.682
you're not slamming the

00:11:03.721 --> 00:11:05.241
same shit too much?

00:11:05.282 --> 00:11:05.702
Two things.

00:11:06.383 --> 00:11:08.482
One, you can't schedule based on IOPS.

00:11:08.763 --> 00:11:10.604
Well, I haven't found out how to.

00:11:11.364 --> 00:11:13.183
So you can have machines

00:11:13.203 --> 00:11:14.024
which are basically

00:11:14.205 --> 00:11:16.384
overwhelmed on disk IO and

00:11:16.705 --> 00:11:19.485
you can't see it in the dashboard.

00:11:20.245 --> 00:11:21.206
The second thing is if you

00:11:21.245 --> 00:11:23.366
want to get your nodes fast,

00:11:23.447 --> 00:11:24.427
you have to have local disk.

00:11:25.741 --> 00:11:27.062
So no NFS,

00:11:27.302 --> 00:11:29.244
no sharing and all that kind of stuff,

00:11:29.344 --> 00:11:30.124
no replicating.

00:11:30.904 --> 00:11:31.884
So one of my first

00:11:31.904 --> 00:11:33.586
challenges was I was using

00:11:33.605 --> 00:11:34.966
a replicated file system

00:11:35.706 --> 00:11:38.148
and it was great for reliability,

00:11:38.447 --> 00:11:40.328
but the machines just sucked.

00:11:41.048 --> 00:11:43.110
So you could run two nodes if that.

00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:45.421
I went, they said, screwed it,

00:11:45.441 --> 00:11:47.221
let's go and get some disk

00:11:47.263 --> 00:11:48.844
mirror and go to local.

00:11:48.923 --> 00:11:51.826
So I'm using LVS on the

00:11:51.846 --> 00:11:53.506
boxes and they run fine.

00:11:54.288 --> 00:11:56.970
I'm running the say testnet

00:11:57.509 --> 00:11:58.490
via Kubernetes now.

00:11:58.730 --> 00:11:59.932
The injective testnet when I

00:11:59.951 --> 00:12:01.432
have it up is also running

00:12:01.493 --> 00:12:02.734
on via Kubernetes.

00:12:03.836 --> 00:12:05.216
and the great thing about it

00:12:05.317 --> 00:12:06.957
is if a machine dies I just

00:12:07.418 --> 00:12:08.798
destroy the disk allocation

00:12:08.837 --> 00:12:11.759
kubernetes um find a new

00:12:11.798 --> 00:12:12.799
snapshot somewhere and it

00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:14.039
just finds another another

00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:15.100
machine with the right

00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:16.701
amount of disk and it just

00:12:17.020 --> 00:12:20.782
picks it up so are you

00:12:20.802 --> 00:12:23.222
running like your own

00:12:23.283 --> 00:12:23.942
hardware for your

00:12:23.982 --> 00:12:26.363
kubernetes or do you run

00:12:26.423 --> 00:12:28.144
like same data center from

00:12:28.183 --> 00:12:29.823
a bare metal provider or

00:12:30.445 --> 00:12:31.764
how do you figure that out

00:12:32.225 --> 00:12:35.427
so I run ovh and leaseweb so

00:12:35.508 --> 00:12:36.649
I rent machines from them I

00:12:36.688 --> 00:12:37.808
used to do it by a headsner

00:12:38.590 --> 00:12:40.030
but uh they kind of got a

00:12:40.051 --> 00:12:41.392
bit snarky at me when I was

00:12:41.412 --> 00:12:42.273
running I think it was

00:12:42.293 --> 00:12:44.033
avalanche and they I

00:12:44.575 --> 00:12:45.696
misconfigured something I

00:12:45.716 --> 00:12:46.735
was using port eight five

00:12:46.775 --> 00:12:48.618
four five and uh that's one

00:12:48.638 --> 00:12:49.658
of their network monitors

00:12:50.078 --> 00:12:50.740
they've got a couple of

00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:51.659
other ones and they said

00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:52.581
they sent me a letter

00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:53.501
saying please explain

00:12:54.715 --> 00:12:55.535
Uh, which is nice of them.

00:12:55.576 --> 00:12:56.636
I was running on their,

00:12:56.736 --> 00:12:57.576
on their hardware for three

00:12:57.616 --> 00:12:59.938
years and I said, okay,

00:12:59.958 --> 00:13:01.799
that was my little, you know,

00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:03.301
no notice to remove myself.

00:13:04.201 --> 00:13:05.121
And, um, yeah,

00:13:05.162 --> 00:13:07.543
so I'm running in four

00:13:07.583 --> 00:13:08.684
different data centers and OVH,

00:13:08.745 --> 00:13:10.785
and I think one in or two

00:13:10.905 --> 00:13:12.226
in a lease web at the moment.

00:13:13.288 --> 00:13:13.988
So I think the good thing

00:13:14.028 --> 00:13:15.509
about OVH is they have like

00:13:15.528 --> 00:13:17.191
a pretty decent private

00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:18.831
network bandwidth.

00:13:19.052 --> 00:13:19.152
Yeah.

00:13:19.780 --> 00:13:21.261
Which would be ideal for Kubernetes,

00:13:21.282 --> 00:13:21.562
right?

00:13:22.082 --> 00:13:22.683
I don't use that.

00:13:23.004 --> 00:13:24.144
I'm just using a public one.

00:13:26.226 --> 00:13:28.089
Again, it's simpler.

00:13:30.331 --> 00:13:31.130
I'm trying to make it so I

00:13:31.152 --> 00:13:32.793
don't have to think because

00:13:32.832 --> 00:13:33.533
thinking is hard.

00:13:36.316 --> 00:13:37.717
They do have a private network,

00:13:37.798 --> 00:13:39.759
but most of the nodes are

00:13:39.798 --> 00:13:41.441
public facing and they've

00:13:41.461 --> 00:13:43.923
got IP tables and security at that level.

00:13:44.943 --> 00:13:45.244
And

00:13:46.653 --> 00:13:47.712
Is everything meshed

00:13:47.753 --> 00:13:52.914
together as one big Kubernetes cluster?

00:13:52.934 --> 00:13:53.014
Yeah.

00:13:53.034 --> 00:13:54.475
There's two different options.

00:13:54.495 --> 00:13:55.355
The way I could have done it

00:13:55.434 --> 00:13:58.115
is I could have had three data centers,

00:13:58.275 --> 00:13:58.916
each one of them being

00:13:59.056 --> 00:14:00.816
their own unique data center,

00:14:01.736 --> 00:14:02.817
and then basically have the

00:14:02.836 --> 00:14:04.817
cross-connect at the whole crux level,

00:14:06.018 --> 00:14:07.298
so to speak,

00:14:07.357 --> 00:14:07.998
or I could basically just

00:14:08.018 --> 00:14:09.178
have one big data center.

00:14:09.198 --> 00:14:12.339
What I have in the actual

00:14:12.379 --> 00:14:14.659
pod specification is affinities.

00:14:15.768 --> 00:14:17.308
So what I have in most of

00:14:17.408 --> 00:14:19.009
them is what they call an anti-infinity,

00:14:19.451 --> 00:14:21.211
which is basically do not do this.

00:14:21.831 --> 00:14:24.394
And I say do not run a node

00:14:24.453 --> 00:14:25.695
if there already is a node

00:14:26.014 --> 00:14:29.697
of that type running in that zone.

00:14:30.077 --> 00:14:32.339
I call it a zone, but it's a data center.

00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:33.340
So then, for example,

00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.721
what I do is for the Terra one,

00:14:36.062 --> 00:14:37.763
I basically say don't run

00:14:37.802 --> 00:14:39.183
another Terra node in here.

00:14:40.389 --> 00:14:41.711
And the rules don't have to

00:14:41.731 --> 00:14:42.611
be super complex,

00:14:42.732 --> 00:14:44.293
but I can do it at the zone level.

00:14:44.374 --> 00:14:45.975
I could have done it at the provider level,

00:14:46.635 --> 00:14:47.356
but because I've only got

00:14:47.397 --> 00:14:48.158
two providers now,

00:14:48.177 --> 00:14:49.219
I just do it at the zones.

00:14:49.239 --> 00:14:53.003
Yeah, fair enough.

00:14:53.432 --> 00:14:54.312
Yeah.

00:14:54.332 --> 00:14:56.474
It's not perfect, but it kind of works.

00:14:56.494 --> 00:14:56.894
I don't know.

00:14:56.933 --> 00:14:58.293
That seems pretty sweet.

00:14:58.975 --> 00:15:00.394
It just spins up another one

00:15:00.554 --> 00:15:02.436
if it happens to be it goes down.

00:15:02.956 --> 00:15:03.115
Yeah.

00:15:03.135 --> 00:15:03.716
That's kind of nice.

00:15:03.735 --> 00:15:06.336
I mean, that's the dream, isn't it?

00:15:06.657 --> 00:15:10.638
Do you find with that setup

00:15:10.717 --> 00:15:12.138
any problems with the fact

00:15:12.177 --> 00:15:15.759
that obviously a lot of

00:15:15.798 --> 00:15:18.080
these services are...

00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:21.260
quite well especially smart

00:15:21.301 --> 00:15:22.481
contract chains quite often

00:15:22.501 --> 00:15:25.364
are very heavy on say ram

00:15:25.504 --> 00:15:26.625
requirements or whatever

00:15:26.764 --> 00:15:29.706
and do you find that you're

00:15:29.765 --> 00:15:32.668
running fewer larger boxes

00:15:32.707 --> 00:15:33.969
to get around that in terms

00:15:34.109 --> 00:15:35.570
of making resources

00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:36.910
available to the cluster or

00:15:36.931 --> 00:15:39.392
are you still erring on the

00:15:39.432 --> 00:15:40.653
side of redundancy in terms

00:15:40.712 --> 00:15:42.333
of box provisions and just

00:15:42.374 --> 00:15:43.715
relying on the scheduler to

00:15:44.294 --> 00:15:45.635
to figure out how to cut it

00:15:46.673 --> 00:15:48.615
um basically figure letting

00:15:48.654 --> 00:15:50.196
the scheduler do its job

00:15:50.816 --> 00:15:52.817
and um it figures that kind

00:15:52.836 --> 00:15:53.778
of stuff out when you

00:15:53.817 --> 00:15:55.219
specify when you start a

00:15:55.259 --> 00:15:57.320
node you say I would like

00:15:57.340 --> 00:15:58.240
to have this much memory

00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:00.681
and this much cpu so

00:16:00.760 --> 00:16:01.581
typically I start with

00:16:01.601 --> 00:16:03.663
sixteen gig so you know I'm

00:16:03.722 --> 00:16:04.783
looking for a spare sixteen

00:16:04.802 --> 00:16:06.764
gig so it will only do I

00:16:06.783 --> 00:16:07.644
think machines running a

00:16:07.664 --> 00:16:08.585
hundred twenty eight gigs

00:16:08.625 --> 00:16:09.326
so one hundred twenty eight

00:16:09.346 --> 00:16:11.206
divided by sixteen is a theoretical limit

00:16:12.407 --> 00:16:13.687
And that's how many you can do.

00:16:14.008 --> 00:16:15.187
And it just finds them.

00:16:16.548 --> 00:16:17.188
At the moment,

00:16:17.349 --> 00:16:19.350
I'm probably under capacity.

00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:20.490
Sorry, over capacity.

00:16:20.971 --> 00:16:21.951
Because every time I add one,

00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:22.792
it doesn't complain.

00:16:23.812 --> 00:16:25.113
So, you know,

00:16:25.133 --> 00:16:26.312
I added another Thor node on

00:16:26.332 --> 00:16:27.394
there and just said, okay.

00:16:28.173 --> 00:16:29.514
And it was like, huh?

00:16:29.534 --> 00:16:30.715
Obviously, I've got too many machines.

00:16:31.716 --> 00:16:34.417
So it's fine.

00:16:34.756 --> 00:16:36.618
But I'd rather have a little

00:16:36.638 --> 00:16:37.458
bit too many because when

00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:38.658
one or two goes down,

00:16:38.818 --> 00:16:40.419
it's much easier just to deal with it.

00:16:41.885 --> 00:16:44.226
But, uh, yeah, I mean,

00:16:44.246 --> 00:16:45.586
looking at my machine now,

00:16:45.606 --> 00:16:46.327
this one's a bad one.

00:16:46.347 --> 00:16:47.727
It's got a load average of seven team.

00:16:48.227 --> 00:16:49.729
Um, again, just IO.

00:16:50.729 --> 00:16:53.470
Um, but it seems to be running.

00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:54.549
Oh, let me go to one,

00:16:54.570 --> 00:16:56.551
which isn't widely going.

00:16:57.490 --> 00:16:58.912
Oh, look, my servers are, no, no.

00:16:59.172 --> 00:17:01.113
Um, we've got load average of four.

00:17:02.393 --> 00:17:02.432
Uh,

00:17:02.452 --> 00:17:05.794
let me see how many different it's

00:17:05.894 --> 00:17:06.354
running.

00:17:06.615 --> 00:17:07.654
One, two, three, four.

00:17:09.073 --> 00:17:14.000
Five, six validators on it at the moment.

00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:14.861
That's a node with a hundred

00:17:14.941 --> 00:17:15.602
and twenty eight gig.

00:17:17.409 --> 00:17:19.069
right nice I guess like one

00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:20.352
of the things that it's

00:17:20.392 --> 00:17:23.394
like um first time set type

00:17:23.473 --> 00:17:24.755
that kind of a setup with

00:17:24.775 --> 00:17:25.736
that kind of automation

00:17:25.756 --> 00:17:26.537
something I've looked into

00:17:26.557 --> 00:17:27.597
before in the past for what

00:17:27.617 --> 00:17:29.558
we do but like we basically

00:17:29.598 --> 00:17:32.521
found that the requirements

00:17:32.622 --> 00:17:33.563
of the different networks

00:17:33.603 --> 00:17:36.164
we run are so you're like

00:17:36.325 --> 00:17:37.865
okay even if the capacity

00:17:37.885 --> 00:17:40.228
they actually need to run is

00:17:41.288 --> 00:17:42.770
maybe a lot less than the advertiser.

00:17:42.810 --> 00:17:43.711
If you have like,

00:17:44.792 --> 00:17:45.493
let's say foundation

00:17:45.513 --> 00:17:49.337
delegation that requires X

00:17:49.357 --> 00:17:51.119
amount of capacity and provisioning,

00:17:51.701 --> 00:17:53.563
and there's some way of kind of... Well,

00:17:54.403 --> 00:17:55.204
I guess they're relying on

00:17:55.244 --> 00:17:56.306
your honesty really, aren't they?

00:17:56.365 --> 00:17:56.566
But...

00:17:58.087 --> 00:17:59.869
you're relying on this really,

00:17:59.930 --> 00:18:04.454
really lopsided provision of capacity.

00:18:05.415 --> 00:18:06.457
I can never quite work out

00:18:06.497 --> 00:18:07.278
how to cut that.

00:18:07.337 --> 00:18:08.798
It always just ended up

00:18:08.838 --> 00:18:11.481
being easy to just go one box,

00:18:11.561 --> 00:18:13.144
one client when it's that big.

00:18:13.304 --> 00:18:14.705
And then after that, you're like, well,

00:18:15.555 --> 00:18:16.415
there's no point running

00:18:17.758 --> 00:18:20.019
Kubernetes just for the Cosmos networks,

00:18:20.059 --> 00:18:20.201
right?

00:18:20.221 --> 00:18:21.221
We should all have similar

00:18:21.261 --> 00:18:22.983
requirements or at least

00:18:23.003 --> 00:18:24.224
that was the way I kind of ended up.

00:18:24.526 --> 00:18:24.865
Yeah.

00:18:24.965 --> 00:18:25.267
I mean,

00:18:25.507 --> 00:18:26.708
I just looked at that box that I

00:18:26.728 --> 00:18:27.628
was talking about.

00:18:27.829 --> 00:18:28.871
It's also got an avalanche

00:18:28.911 --> 00:18:30.393
and a Thor node on there too, just FYI.

00:18:30.413 --> 00:18:34.577
So again, the way, the way I,

00:18:35.127 --> 00:18:36.127
to get it right in my head

00:18:36.568 --> 00:18:39.490
is if Injective had a massive spike,

00:18:39.609 --> 00:18:40.450
Injective's not running on

00:18:40.829 --> 00:18:41.631
its own hardware,

00:18:41.671 --> 00:18:43.892
but if Terra had a massive spike,

00:18:44.271 --> 00:18:45.571
there's enough spare memory

00:18:45.612 --> 00:18:48.354
on those machines combined

00:18:48.953 --> 00:18:50.954
to allow it to have its spike.

00:18:51.835 --> 00:18:53.316
A ride chain, for example,

00:18:53.675 --> 00:18:55.676
notoriously gets up to, you know,

00:18:56.497 --> 00:18:57.436
gets up to sixty-four,

00:18:57.557 --> 00:18:58.698
ninety-six gigs sometimes.

00:18:59.847 --> 00:19:01.588
It's just the way it works.

00:19:02.269 --> 00:19:03.309
And it lets it have its

00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:04.270
spike and it goes down.

00:19:04.371 --> 00:19:04.550
Now,

00:19:04.671 --> 00:19:07.271
if every single Cosmos network was

00:19:07.291 --> 00:19:09.413
going to have spikes at the same time,

00:19:10.013 --> 00:19:11.855
that might not work as well.

00:19:13.695 --> 00:19:15.676
You know?

00:19:15.696 --> 00:19:15.876
Yeah, fair.

00:19:15.896 --> 00:19:16.696
Now I'm going to get all the

00:19:16.737 --> 00:19:18.438
foundation delegations to

00:19:18.478 --> 00:19:19.239
me just going whoosh.

00:19:21.063 --> 00:19:21.604
I disagree.

00:19:21.663 --> 00:19:21.963
I mean,

00:19:22.443 --> 00:19:23.984
I know you're just joking about the

00:19:24.005 --> 00:19:24.925
foundation delegations,

00:19:24.986 --> 00:19:26.406
but there are very few that

00:19:26.487 --> 00:19:27.067
run Kubernetes.

00:19:27.126 --> 00:19:28.648
I can think of like three offhand.

00:19:29.048 --> 00:19:30.210
There's like the Nibiru team.

00:19:32.230 --> 00:19:32.371
Noel,

00:19:32.431 --> 00:19:34.051
I think you're pursuing Kubernetes

00:19:34.071 --> 00:19:34.913
for a little bit, right?

00:19:34.932 --> 00:19:36.034
Or at least you flirted with it.

00:19:36.713 --> 00:19:38.335
Yeah,

00:19:38.355 --> 00:19:40.016
I had to look at Kubernetes for a

00:19:40.096 --> 00:19:42.678
particular network and it's like,

00:19:44.358 --> 00:19:45.339
we didn't use it.

00:19:47.785 --> 00:19:49.386
Just because at the moment,

00:19:49.426 --> 00:19:50.567
it's a learning curve for me.

00:19:50.587 --> 00:19:52.911
It's like I need time to

00:19:53.070 --> 00:19:54.051
figure all of that out.

00:19:54.152 --> 00:19:57.215
It's not something that I

00:19:57.256 --> 00:19:59.478
can just do right away.

00:19:59.718 --> 00:20:00.318
But also,

00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:02.622
you need to dedicate a certain

00:20:02.642 --> 00:20:05.244
amount of resource to it.

00:20:05.404 --> 00:20:06.806
The juice has to be worth

00:20:06.846 --> 00:20:08.828
the squeeze at the time.

00:20:08.888 --> 00:20:08.989
Yeah.

00:20:09.477 --> 00:20:10.297
It is a pretty good fit for

00:20:10.336 --> 00:20:11.116
Cosmos nodes though.

00:20:11.738 --> 00:20:13.438
Like for, for, for Cosmos,

00:20:14.238 --> 00:20:16.298
I think it starts to, I mean,

00:20:16.318 --> 00:20:17.378
we run a bunch of avalanches as well.

00:20:17.398 --> 00:20:18.839
And I could see that like

00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:20.240
when you have a node that takes, you know,

00:20:20.299 --> 00:20:21.559
it's seven terabytes of

00:20:21.579 --> 00:20:22.780
data and it's sucking down, uh,

00:20:24.941 --> 00:20:26.382
half the cores and half the RAM.

00:20:26.402 --> 00:20:28.281
Like you kind of lose the need, um,

00:20:28.342 --> 00:20:29.623
versus just regular automation.

00:20:29.643 --> 00:20:30.143
You know what I mean?

00:20:30.163 --> 00:20:31.563
But, but Cosmos knows,

00:20:31.603 --> 00:20:32.584
especially if you're running valves,

00:20:32.624 --> 00:20:34.044
cause then you're state

00:20:34.064 --> 00:20:35.284
syncing them and you're moving around.

00:20:35.324 --> 00:20:35.784
I don't care.

00:20:35.804 --> 00:20:37.045
And Horcrux is dealing signing.

00:20:37.105 --> 00:20:37.605
Like that's a,

00:20:38.031 --> 00:20:39.093
That containerization and

00:20:39.133 --> 00:20:40.273
orchestration makes a lot of sense.

00:20:41.734 --> 00:20:43.517
I think global RPC and some

00:20:43.537 --> 00:20:44.377
of these other types of things,

00:20:44.557 --> 00:20:45.519
it seems like it just, to me,

00:20:45.558 --> 00:20:46.519
it seems like it would get in the way.

00:20:46.558 --> 00:20:49.481
But for like running VALs,

00:20:49.662 --> 00:20:51.844
that's actually pretty nice.

00:20:51.864 --> 00:20:52.545
Yeah.

00:20:52.625 --> 00:20:52.884
I mean,

00:20:53.265 --> 00:20:54.846
I have had challenges running Polygon.

00:20:55.727 --> 00:20:55.928
Yeah.

00:20:56.188 --> 00:20:57.409
And I need to move off

00:20:57.688 --> 00:20:57.807
I mean,

00:20:57.887 --> 00:20:59.808
I'm currently running it on Kubernetes,

00:20:59.848 --> 00:21:00.789
but I need to move that off.

00:21:02.009 --> 00:21:03.171
Injective, say,

00:21:03.330 --> 00:21:04.451
I wouldn't even dream of

00:21:04.592 --> 00:21:05.332
using Kubernetes for that.

00:21:05.632 --> 00:21:06.472
They're magnets and stuff like that.

00:21:06.492 --> 00:21:08.173
They're just too big.

00:21:08.193 --> 00:21:08.294
Yeah.

00:21:08.614 --> 00:21:10.255
Yeah.

00:21:11.055 --> 00:21:13.296
Especially, and say, I mean,

00:21:13.316 --> 00:21:14.537
say it might not be bad now

00:21:14.616 --> 00:21:15.597
with CDB and everything,

00:21:15.617 --> 00:21:17.318
because it's not that hungry,

00:21:17.338 --> 00:21:19.019
and it states things fast

00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:19.579
and things like that,

00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:20.380
where you could keep the

00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.201
container somewhat,

00:21:22.221 --> 00:21:23.162
keep the data somewhat small,

00:21:23.182 --> 00:21:24.903
but it does need the resources,

00:21:24.923 --> 00:21:25.363
that's for sure.

00:21:25.785 --> 00:21:27.726
Yeah, I mean, every day in the morning,

00:21:27.746 --> 00:21:28.826
I check which containers

00:21:28.846 --> 00:21:29.586
are running out of disk

00:21:29.606 --> 00:21:32.428
space and remedy them.

00:21:32.468 --> 00:21:35.689
And that's basically my daily chore.

00:21:35.729 --> 00:21:36.808
Operational run book is just

00:21:36.909 --> 00:21:38.670
basically see what's about to run out.

00:21:38.710 --> 00:21:39.509
And because everything's

00:21:39.529 --> 00:21:41.790
running whole crux, if machine dies,

00:21:42.070 --> 00:21:43.071
it's not the end of the world.

00:21:44.011 --> 00:21:47.713
And then since it's in one

00:21:48.375 --> 00:21:49.775
Kubernetes cluster,

00:21:50.476 --> 00:21:51.236
that means all the

00:21:51.276 --> 00:21:53.176
containers can DNS themselves, right?

00:21:53.196 --> 00:21:54.938
You have a single namespace

00:21:55.419 --> 00:21:56.439
to get across all machines.

00:21:56.459 --> 00:21:56.900
Is that right?

00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:58.440
You can.

00:21:59.500 --> 00:22:00.422
What you can also do is

00:22:00.461 --> 00:22:01.561
limit it by namespace.

00:22:01.761 --> 00:22:02.782
So for example,

00:22:04.003 --> 00:22:06.025
you can put security controls in.

00:22:06.184 --> 00:22:07.306
So in this pod,

00:22:07.445 --> 00:22:09.247
you have this security pod.

00:22:10.184 --> 00:22:11.266
context, so to speak,

00:22:11.786 --> 00:22:12.586
and give it permissions

00:22:12.605 --> 00:22:13.386
like you cannot look

00:22:13.487 --> 00:22:14.647
outside your namespace.

00:22:15.748 --> 00:22:20.711
So because it's a fairly private and again,

00:22:20.790 --> 00:22:21.672
if I do this again,

00:22:21.731 --> 00:22:22.893
I might do something like that.

00:22:22.932 --> 00:22:24.673
I changed the layout a

00:22:24.713 --> 00:22:25.653
little bit of how I design

00:22:25.693 --> 00:22:27.835
namespaces and do that stuff.

00:22:28.655 --> 00:22:30.116
At the moment, it's fine.

00:22:31.217 --> 00:22:32.097
For me,

00:22:32.817 --> 00:22:34.598
I'm not too concerned about them

00:22:34.638 --> 00:22:36.840
being able to access each other because

00:22:37.946 --> 00:22:38.907
know the code that they have

00:22:38.968 --> 00:22:40.008
is fairly self-contained

00:22:40.929 --> 00:22:42.529
unless you get into a place

00:22:42.549 --> 00:22:43.191
where you have a rogue

00:22:43.411 --> 00:22:44.551
network and they all of a

00:22:44.592 --> 00:22:46.073
sudden start doing port

00:22:46.093 --> 00:22:47.973
sniffing and end mapping of

00:22:48.153 --> 00:22:49.295
around starting attacking

00:22:49.335 --> 00:22:51.936
other nodes inside I mean

00:22:51.957 --> 00:22:53.817
possibly I mean I stopped

00:22:53.837 --> 00:22:54.397
running those kind of

00:22:54.438 --> 00:22:58.080
networks a while ago but um

00:22:58.101 --> 00:22:59.721
I'm not not as concerned my

00:22:59.761 --> 00:23:00.942
security posture on this

00:23:01.803 --> 00:23:02.703
might be a bit more

00:23:02.763 --> 00:23:05.486
optimistic than others you know uh

00:23:06.097 --> 00:23:08.398
Mainly, if my validator goes down,

00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:10.980
you'll screw up the people

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:12.601
who delegate to it, which sucks.

00:23:12.641 --> 00:23:13.601
And I don't want that,

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:14.662
but it's not going to screw

00:23:14.682 --> 00:23:16.602
up the network because I

00:23:16.622 --> 00:23:18.403
don't have fifty percent or

00:23:18.423 --> 00:23:19.584
one hundred percent running.

00:23:20.463 --> 00:23:21.845
There is one network I run

00:23:22.085 --> 00:23:24.226
by myself as in it's like a

00:23:24.266 --> 00:23:26.205
four node validator set for

00:23:26.226 --> 00:23:27.906
somebody that presents its

00:23:27.987 --> 00:23:29.548
own issues because

00:23:30.430 --> 00:23:32.332
You have for seeding and for peering,

00:23:32.412 --> 00:23:34.034
you have to actually go

00:23:34.134 --> 00:23:35.134
outside the network to get

00:23:35.154 --> 00:23:36.215
the real IP addresses so

00:23:37.037 --> 00:23:38.778
that they can do discovery.

00:23:38.818 --> 00:23:39.640
So that's probably one of

00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:40.780
the challenges of

00:23:40.820 --> 00:23:42.804
Kubernetes if you run the entire network.

00:23:43.223 --> 00:23:44.164
You need at least one or two

00:23:44.184 --> 00:23:44.965
machines out there.

00:23:45.796 --> 00:23:46.977
But, yeah, I mean,

00:23:46.997 --> 00:23:48.077
it's been working quite well.

00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:49.778
I probably need to look at

00:23:49.798 --> 00:23:51.339
the machine hardware now

00:23:51.461 --> 00:23:52.580
because my delegations have

00:23:52.601 --> 00:23:54.103
decreased and the market's gone down.

00:23:54.123 --> 00:23:56.605
I need to basically look at

00:23:56.625 --> 00:23:58.046
my costs a bit more, as one does.

00:23:59.027 --> 00:24:00.448
Overall, it's served me well.

00:24:01.549 --> 00:24:01.869
That's cool.

00:24:01.911 --> 00:24:03.092
And so, so if nodes, if,

00:24:03.413 --> 00:24:04.855
if you have a Horcrux

00:24:05.234 --> 00:24:07.317
structure and one of those,

00:24:07.939 --> 00:24:09.421
you need to move those or,

00:24:09.621 --> 00:24:11.284
or one of those Horcrux

00:24:11.564 --> 00:24:13.026
nodes is on a machine that's dying,

00:24:13.226 --> 00:24:14.847
or if it's talking to an end node,

00:24:14.867 --> 00:24:16.830
that's on a machine that's dying.

00:24:17.132 --> 00:24:17.291
Um,

00:24:18.553 --> 00:24:20.094
You can replace those.

00:24:20.273 --> 00:24:20.835
How do you deal with like

00:24:20.875 --> 00:24:22.536
horcrux situations if you

00:24:22.556 --> 00:24:24.678
have failures on on those

00:24:24.718 --> 00:24:25.178
types of things?

00:24:26.078 --> 00:24:27.900
I delete the the PVC on it

00:24:28.540 --> 00:24:31.042
and just hit control delete on the pod.

00:24:31.542 --> 00:24:33.223
OK, you just you just regenerate it,

00:24:33.605 --> 00:24:34.484
regenerate it.

00:24:34.505 --> 00:24:35.026
It works.

00:24:36.586 --> 00:24:37.807
The challenge for double

00:24:37.847 --> 00:24:39.648
signing is still because

00:24:39.669 --> 00:24:42.090
there's two nodes and it's done by DNS.

00:24:42.270 --> 00:24:43.991
So my configurations are DNS based.

00:24:44.492 --> 00:24:46.134
It will look to the DNS and

00:24:46.213 --> 00:24:47.335
I haven't had a chance, you know,

00:24:47.901 --> 00:24:48.961
Again, touch wood.

00:24:49.622 --> 00:24:51.022
Most of the challenges with

00:24:51.064 --> 00:24:52.183
Horcrux is when you upgrade

00:24:52.223 --> 00:24:53.325
versions for me.

00:24:53.404 --> 00:24:54.826
And that's where it's like that.

00:24:54.886 --> 00:24:55.787
And all of them,

00:24:55.807 --> 00:24:56.988
you just do it the old fashioned way.

00:24:57.008 --> 00:24:58.849
You delete all the Horcruxes

00:24:58.890 --> 00:25:00.050
and you bring them back up again.

00:25:00.090 --> 00:25:00.711
Bring them all up again.

00:25:00.851 --> 00:25:01.111
Yeah.

00:25:01.231 --> 00:25:01.471
Yeah.

00:25:02.010 --> 00:25:03.330
The challenge sometimes can

00:25:03.371 --> 00:25:05.412
be where you have, you know, three,

00:25:05.571 --> 00:25:06.751
three centuries running in

00:25:06.932 --> 00:25:08.932
three in the network and

00:25:08.952 --> 00:25:09.893
they cross and they cross

00:25:09.992 --> 00:25:10.952
over the whole cruxes.

00:25:11.692 --> 00:25:12.933
So you have going from DC

00:25:13.074 --> 00:25:14.673
one and the whole cruxes and DC two,

00:25:14.713 --> 00:25:15.913
and then DC twos,

00:25:15.953 --> 00:25:17.174
whole cruxes and DC one

00:25:17.714 --> 00:25:18.615
that can confuse it,

00:25:18.694 --> 00:25:20.954
especially in a box when a DC goes down,

00:25:21.316 --> 00:25:22.036
which has happened.

00:25:22.476 --> 00:25:23.296
Um,

00:25:23.316 --> 00:25:26.317
but overall it was annoying more than

00:25:26.356 --> 00:25:27.237
anything else.

00:25:27.317 --> 00:25:27.436
Yeah.

00:25:29.403 --> 00:25:31.325
Yep, that's cool.

00:25:31.385 --> 00:25:31.746
Makes sense.

00:25:32.026 --> 00:25:33.488
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's, I mean,

00:25:33.508 --> 00:25:34.548
the Horcrux should be the one thing that,

00:25:35.371 --> 00:25:36.632
that I would consider moving across.

00:25:36.672 --> 00:25:38.134
That and I run, we run a,

00:25:38.694 --> 00:25:40.076
I run a ton of containers

00:25:40.115 --> 00:25:42.599
for another chain that we

00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:43.881
probably has fifty containers on it.

00:25:43.961 --> 00:25:44.321
And that,

00:25:44.442 --> 00:25:45.442
that would be great to move into

00:25:45.482 --> 00:25:46.845
that situation because all those are just

00:25:47.285 --> 00:25:48.786
basically external adapters,

00:25:48.806 --> 00:25:50.126
and they just take RPC requests.

00:25:50.146 --> 00:25:51.827
So the ability to have that,

00:25:52.508 --> 00:25:53.588
that should be in Kubernetes.

00:25:53.608 --> 00:25:54.469
So that would be great,

00:25:54.489 --> 00:25:56.029
because then that literally

00:25:56.651 --> 00:25:57.490
totally could survive

00:25:57.530 --> 00:25:59.071
anything and be able to

00:25:59.152 --> 00:25:59.952
move those things around

00:25:59.972 --> 00:26:01.133
and namespace aspect of

00:26:01.192 --> 00:26:03.214
things versus just having a, you know,

00:26:03.454 --> 00:26:05.155
those are all just ansible eyes, but they,

00:26:05.655 --> 00:26:07.136
they're still running on a single machine,

00:26:07.156 --> 00:26:08.397
which would be great to be

00:26:08.417 --> 00:26:09.117
able to distribute out and

00:26:09.137 --> 00:26:10.638
do some better and smarter things with.

00:26:11.358 --> 00:26:12.480
What you also should be

00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:13.740
looking at is probably how

00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:15.321
you can do multiple user levels.

00:26:16.269 --> 00:26:17.630
So then one of the things

00:26:17.650 --> 00:26:18.912
which is getting me is how

00:26:18.951 --> 00:26:20.393
can I basically get a DevOps,

00:26:20.613 --> 00:26:22.494
hire another DevOps and not

00:26:22.734 --> 00:26:24.116
let them have access to the whole cruxes?

00:26:24.156 --> 00:26:24.237
Sure.

00:26:25.597 --> 00:26:26.558
Yeah.

00:26:26.679 --> 00:26:28.080
And then it's like, well,

00:26:28.121 --> 00:26:28.721
what can they do?

00:26:28.760 --> 00:26:29.402
They can screw up a note.

00:26:29.442 --> 00:26:30.343
Oh, well,

00:26:30.383 --> 00:26:31.703
but they haven't got access to the keys.

00:26:31.743 --> 00:26:33.286
And then it's just like, yeah,

00:26:33.346 --> 00:26:34.145
I shot myself in the foot,

00:26:34.446 --> 00:26:35.488
but they can't steal my business.

00:26:35.948 --> 00:26:36.587
Yeah, we do that.

00:26:36.627 --> 00:26:38.229
We do that through VLAN segmentation.

00:26:38.788 --> 00:26:39.128
And like,

00:26:39.189 --> 00:26:40.730
there's some IAM stuff stuff

00:26:40.789 --> 00:26:41.390
associated to that.

00:26:41.410 --> 00:26:43.391
So yeah, we Yeah, that's, that's,

00:26:43.790 --> 00:26:44.872
that's definitely a it's

00:26:44.912 --> 00:26:46.291
nice to be able to say, I mean, when we,

00:26:47.133 --> 00:26:47.732
when we can,

00:26:48.472 --> 00:26:49.212
but we do have different

00:26:49.253 --> 00:26:51.013
layers for for who can get

00:26:51.054 --> 00:26:52.734
into what and how.

00:26:53.553 --> 00:26:56.574
And so that's a great piece in there too.

00:26:56.614 --> 00:26:59.095
And I know Kate has the ability to do that,

00:26:59.134 --> 00:26:59.255
right?

00:26:59.295 --> 00:27:00.474
You can control that.

00:27:00.494 --> 00:27:01.855
I don't remember what that's

00:27:01.894 --> 00:27:02.394
actually called,

00:27:02.454 --> 00:27:03.336
but I know you can kind of

00:27:03.355 --> 00:27:05.175
build some different layers

00:27:05.576 --> 00:27:06.457
of access within there.

00:27:06.957 --> 00:27:07.757
But that's the beauty of the

00:27:07.797 --> 00:27:08.497
Cosmos network.

00:27:08.537 --> 00:27:09.217
You can do that.

00:27:09.376 --> 00:27:09.616
I mean,

00:27:09.656 --> 00:27:11.538
go to Ethereum and everything's the

00:27:11.557 --> 00:27:12.698
same little bit.

00:27:12.758 --> 00:27:14.239
All the private keys are all

00:27:14.439 --> 00:27:15.358
embedded into it.

00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:16.499
They haven't got

00:27:16.838 --> 00:27:18.720
multi-signing type facility.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:19.880
It's sucky.

00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:22.040
I'll say it's antiquated, but yeah,

00:27:22.141 --> 00:27:22.800
it is antiquated.

00:27:23.788 --> 00:27:23.969
Yeah.

00:27:23.989 --> 00:27:24.229
I mean,

00:27:24.249 --> 00:27:25.148
you have Web three signer and

00:27:25.169 --> 00:27:25.829
things like that where you

00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:26.609
can at least you can have a

00:27:26.630 --> 00:27:28.810
third party node that that carries keys,

00:27:29.171 --> 00:27:30.530
which we use here and there.

00:27:30.590 --> 00:27:31.951
But but but yeah,

00:27:31.991 --> 00:27:33.751
there's no there's no NPC type structure,

00:27:33.791 --> 00:27:33.951
right?

00:27:33.991 --> 00:27:34.613
Like, yeah,

00:27:34.633 --> 00:27:35.452
there's nothing you can do

00:27:35.472 --> 00:27:39.314
other than be a part of a

00:27:39.334 --> 00:27:40.474
Lido SSV network that

00:27:40.535 --> 00:27:41.214
doesn't make any money.

00:27:41.275 --> 00:27:43.576
But, you know, it's all tradeoffs.

00:27:45.215 --> 00:27:47.257
Hey, man, it makes some money.

00:27:47.396 --> 00:27:48.257
That's what I'm talking about.

00:27:48.576 --> 00:27:49.958
Well, we haven't we're not live yet,

00:27:49.998 --> 00:27:50.798
so I can say that.

00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:55.071
like just don't don't do the

00:27:55.112 --> 00:27:57.433
math don't do the math it's

00:27:57.453 --> 00:27:59.675
a good five of seven yeah

00:27:59.776 --> 00:28:01.678
we can take we can take two

00:28:01.718 --> 00:28:02.679
notes down it's fine

00:28:02.919 --> 00:28:06.461
everything's fine yeah um

00:28:07.863 --> 00:28:10.384
yeah it's fine it's fine so

00:28:10.404 --> 00:28:11.766
then what last question for

00:28:11.786 --> 00:28:13.527
me is on the what do you

00:28:13.567 --> 00:28:15.368
run on the actual on the hardware itself

00:28:16.782 --> 00:28:18.845
I was initially going to rerunning Talos.

00:28:20.006 --> 00:28:22.048
That was, it looked like a dream thing.

00:28:22.268 --> 00:28:24.430
It basically, you know,

00:28:24.470 --> 00:28:25.470
it's a small footprint

00:28:25.670 --> 00:28:27.231
designed to run Kubernetes under,

00:28:27.352 --> 00:28:28.212
you know, fully.

00:28:28.393 --> 00:28:30.054
It's got huge security things.

00:28:30.696 --> 00:28:32.217
but due to the way that they put their,

00:28:32.257 --> 00:28:33.317
they need a separate system

00:28:33.357 --> 00:28:34.478
disc and stuff like that.

00:28:34.577 --> 00:28:35.718
So you need a smaller system

00:28:35.758 --> 00:28:38.578
disc and then the bigger, larger ones.

00:28:38.618 --> 00:28:40.098
And Hetzner at the time,

00:28:40.318 --> 00:28:42.400
you just basically got one

00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:44.740
disc or you got one size disc.

00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:46.359
So you couldn't actually configure that.

00:28:47.080 --> 00:28:47.760
Thank you, Hetzner.

00:28:47.941 --> 00:28:49.161
So I'm just running Ubuntu.

00:28:49.181 --> 00:28:50.320
Oh, okay.

00:28:50.381 --> 00:28:52.622
So it's just, so just to base on Ubuntu.

00:28:52.642 --> 00:28:53.942
So, I mean, those other ones,

00:28:54.261 --> 00:28:54.902
do they give you like the

00:28:54.922 --> 00:28:57.542
firewall controls and like, you know,

00:28:58.882 --> 00:29:00.222
tune d and things like that

00:29:00.242 --> 00:29:01.123
that you can control the

00:29:01.143 --> 00:29:02.864
base hardware at that level

00:29:02.884 --> 00:29:03.365
because some of those

00:29:03.384 --> 00:29:04.265
things you still want to do

00:29:04.305 --> 00:29:05.226
some hardware tweaks and

00:29:05.925 --> 00:29:09.828
make sure I have assist

00:29:09.848 --> 00:29:11.930
control uh tweaks that I do

00:29:12.289 --> 00:29:13.290
I think that they're

00:29:13.310 --> 00:29:14.791
actually in github yeah

00:29:15.692 --> 00:29:17.373
and I have something on the

00:29:17.413 --> 00:29:18.713
network adapter level just

00:29:18.733 --> 00:29:22.436
to open up the size of the packets.

00:29:23.798 --> 00:29:25.638
Those are probably the only two.

00:29:26.078 --> 00:29:27.420
There was a guy on Secret

00:29:27.601 --> 00:29:29.781
who basically gave a

00:29:29.821 --> 00:29:30.583
recommendation on how to

00:29:30.623 --> 00:29:33.105
performance tune the box at that level,

00:29:33.345 --> 00:29:34.065
and they use that.

00:29:34.205 --> 00:29:35.467
Otherwise, it's just LVMs.

00:29:37.181 --> 00:29:38.520
I think that guy was Todd, by the way.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.541
Yeah, Todd.

00:29:40.582 --> 00:29:40.962
Thank you.

00:29:40.982 --> 00:29:41.583
It was Blockpain.

00:29:42.423 --> 00:29:43.763
Yeah, it was him.

00:29:43.784 --> 00:29:46.065
Definitely use that kind of stuff.

00:29:46.925 --> 00:29:47.746
Haven't really heard much

00:29:48.066 --> 00:29:48.946
from him recently.

00:29:48.967 --> 00:29:49.666
I don't know what he's up to.

00:29:49.686 --> 00:29:52.689
He hopped out last year.

00:29:52.949 --> 00:29:54.509
Yeah, he decided he was done.

00:29:55.346 --> 00:29:59.068
Yeah, that's cool.

00:29:59.108 --> 00:29:59.628
So you do that.

00:29:59.709 --> 00:30:00.650
You do on the Ubuntu side.

00:30:01.250 --> 00:30:02.050
I just never know those

00:30:02.070 --> 00:30:03.872
other Kubernetes like base

00:30:04.011 --> 00:30:05.532
images like Telos and things like that.

00:30:05.553 --> 00:30:06.252
I've heard some of those

00:30:06.272 --> 00:30:07.773
that are that are I just

00:30:07.794 --> 00:30:08.634
don't know if they're if

00:30:08.653 --> 00:30:09.795
they're really architected

00:30:09.815 --> 00:30:11.395
to be in a public IP space.

00:30:11.415 --> 00:30:12.016
You know what I mean?

00:30:12.496 --> 00:30:13.477
Are they really meant to be

00:30:13.517 --> 00:30:14.436
in a in a private data

00:30:14.457 --> 00:30:15.897
center that has hardware firewalls and,

00:30:16.377 --> 00:30:16.538
you know,

00:30:16.598 --> 00:30:18.619
you have less shit hanging out

00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:18.980
in the wind?

00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:20.661
so inside of kubernetes you

00:30:20.681 --> 00:30:22.143
have psyllium as well and

00:30:22.163 --> 00:30:23.644
that has some fine-grained

00:30:25.006 --> 00:30:26.507
um yeah so most of the

00:30:26.527 --> 00:30:28.828
stuff is all all the

00:30:28.848 --> 00:30:29.971
communications all natted

00:30:29.990 --> 00:30:31.571
oh that's cool between the

00:30:31.751 --> 00:30:32.472
between the machines and

00:30:32.492 --> 00:30:34.914
the clusters yeah so you

00:30:34.935 --> 00:30:35.895
don't you know they

00:30:35.915 --> 00:30:38.298
communicate freak a lot but

00:30:38.378 --> 00:30:39.400
most of the stuff is natted

00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:41.281
every once in a while I hiccuped

00:30:42.765 --> 00:30:44.047
And I'd see like these ten,

00:30:44.107 --> 00:30:46.050
ten IP addresses with eight port, eight,

00:30:46.070 --> 00:30:48.355
four, five, four, five being registered.

00:30:48.375 --> 00:30:49.596
And that's basically how

00:30:49.636 --> 00:30:50.739
what has Hetzner logged.

00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:52.642
So it could basically see

00:30:52.662 --> 00:30:54.244
the internal communication on the ten,

00:30:54.285 --> 00:30:54.505
ten.

00:30:55.226 --> 00:30:56.648
But yeah.

00:30:57.576 --> 00:30:57.757
Again,

00:30:57.777 --> 00:30:58.858
I'm not running billions and

00:30:58.898 --> 00:30:59.700
billions of dollars.

00:30:59.740 --> 00:31:00.461
If you're going to start

00:31:00.921 --> 00:31:03.564
spoofing that and maybe it

00:31:03.584 --> 00:31:04.465
becomes an issue then,

00:31:04.526 --> 00:31:07.189
but I trust my data centers

00:31:07.249 --> 00:31:08.971
to do network segmentation

00:31:09.991 --> 00:31:11.074
to the best of their ability.

00:31:11.733 --> 00:31:13.636
And judging from what I can see, they do.

00:31:16.157 --> 00:31:16.377
Yep.

00:31:16.417 --> 00:31:16.858
That's pretty cool.

00:31:17.919 --> 00:31:18.180
Yeah.

00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:18.759
It's pretty interesting.

00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:19.220
Yeah.

00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:20.500
I should, I had to mess with it.

00:31:20.641 --> 00:31:21.162
Cause my,

00:31:21.201 --> 00:31:22.542
my experience has always been like in,

00:31:23.022 --> 00:31:24.263
in a public cloud, you know what I mean?

00:31:24.443 --> 00:31:26.566
Like easy to fire up an AWS

00:31:26.625 --> 00:31:27.586
or back in the days to use

00:31:27.665 --> 00:31:29.988
Linode before they got bought by Alchemy.

00:31:30.929 --> 00:31:32.210
Um, and those are nice.

00:31:32.410 --> 00:31:33.490
Those are nice things you

00:31:33.510 --> 00:31:34.511
can point a help chart to,

00:31:34.551 --> 00:31:35.372
and it just worked.

00:31:35.392 --> 00:31:36.012
You know what I mean?

00:31:36.053 --> 00:31:36.792
Like you, Hey,

00:31:36.813 --> 00:31:37.773
I want three nodes or I want this.

00:31:37.854 --> 00:31:39.075
I want, here's my disc and this and that.

00:31:40.234 --> 00:31:42.756
But as the fray knows that gets pretty,

00:31:43.036 --> 00:31:44.955
pretty pricey, pretty effing quick.

00:31:46.375 --> 00:31:47.396
And so to be able to,

00:31:47.497 --> 00:31:48.576
to be able to actually use

00:31:48.596 --> 00:31:50.876
some of that in maybe a mix

00:31:51.096 --> 00:31:52.597
of cloud and bare metal,

00:31:53.518 --> 00:31:54.357
which is actually pretty,

00:31:54.377 --> 00:31:55.577
that's actually what I was thinking was,

00:31:56.358 --> 00:31:57.259
would it be nice to split

00:31:57.398 --> 00:31:59.459
environments if possible in

00:31:59.499 --> 00:32:00.138
some of those senses,

00:32:00.199 --> 00:32:01.539
because it'd be nice to

00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:02.259
have some things on,

00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.200
on some cloud managed type

00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:05.839
of infrastructure,

00:32:05.859 --> 00:32:08.381
and then also have some nodes that are,

00:32:09.025 --> 00:32:10.026
Um, on bare metal,

00:32:10.066 --> 00:32:11.826
just so not it's not all cloud, um,

00:32:11.906 --> 00:32:12.567
and have the ability to

00:32:12.727 --> 00:32:13.646
move things around or,

00:32:14.087 --> 00:32:15.028
or have the things to be able to,

00:32:15.167 --> 00:32:16.328
if there was an outage to be able to,

00:32:16.449 --> 00:32:18.549
you know, recreate certain containers in,

00:32:18.710 --> 00:32:19.410
in different environments.

00:32:20.151 --> 00:32:21.270
But that's as far as I got.

00:32:21.290 --> 00:32:22.771
And then I was like, eh, we'll see.

00:32:22.791 --> 00:32:22.892
Yeah.

00:32:23.432 --> 00:32:24.053
It would have been really

00:32:24.113 --> 00:32:26.074
cool if I could have had like one of the,

00:32:26.354 --> 00:32:28.595
you know, for Google's, uh, AWS,

00:32:28.835 --> 00:32:29.775
Google's Kubernetes have

00:32:29.855 --> 00:32:30.756
one of those controllers

00:32:30.875 --> 00:32:32.636
built in and then just say, well,

00:32:32.717 --> 00:32:33.356
and here's another,

00:32:33.517 --> 00:32:35.117
here's another data center out of Google.

00:32:35.198 --> 00:32:36.398
Here's one in Amazon.

00:32:36.898 --> 00:32:37.078
Right.

00:32:37.958 --> 00:32:38.999
let them talk to each other.

00:32:39.358 --> 00:32:41.259
And that way, if Google goes down or,

00:32:41.299 --> 00:32:41.500
you know,

00:32:41.539 --> 00:32:43.060
Google decides to be anti-crypto,

00:32:43.882 --> 00:32:45.482
then they're not because

00:32:45.502 --> 00:32:46.403
they're fully supporting

00:32:46.423 --> 00:32:47.523
crypto and they're, you know,

00:32:47.564 --> 00:32:48.605
launching validators now.

00:32:49.204 --> 00:32:52.527
Yeah.

00:32:52.567 --> 00:32:52.946
Do that.

00:32:53.007 --> 00:32:57.250
But yeah.

00:32:57.269 --> 00:32:58.069
How often do you have to

00:32:58.170 --> 00:32:59.471
manually interfere with a

00:32:59.530 --> 00:33:04.054
node that goes down?

00:33:04.094 --> 00:33:05.434
Rarely, maybe once a month if.

00:33:09.501 --> 00:33:12.324
I mean, for security releases,

00:33:12.344 --> 00:33:13.365
the machines get rebooted

00:33:14.125 --> 00:33:14.746
and that happens.

00:33:15.426 --> 00:33:16.627
On a security release,

00:33:16.968 --> 00:33:20.211
some of the pods get stuck on there.

00:33:20.250 --> 00:33:21.751
So I have to recognize that

00:33:21.791 --> 00:33:22.653
and I get alerted and I

00:33:22.673 --> 00:33:25.394
have to restart the pod.

00:33:25.555 --> 00:33:26.715
That's a level what happens

00:33:26.736 --> 00:33:30.919
when a machine reboots sometimes.

00:33:30.959 --> 00:33:32.740
Sometimes the machine itself hangs up.

00:33:33.971 --> 00:33:34.590
God knows why.

00:33:35.392 --> 00:33:39.153
And then I have to either go into this IPM,

00:33:39.252 --> 00:33:40.212
what's it called?

00:33:40.252 --> 00:33:45.234
The serial port.

00:33:45.255 --> 00:33:45.335
AVM?

00:33:45.454 --> 00:33:46.496
Yeah, KPMI or something like that.

00:33:46.516 --> 00:33:46.915
I can't remember.

00:33:46.935 --> 00:33:47.135
IPMI, yeah.

00:33:47.796 --> 00:33:47.935
Yeah,

00:33:48.036 --> 00:33:49.576
IPMI and just go in there and figure

00:33:49.596 --> 00:33:50.297
out what's going on.

00:33:50.396 --> 00:33:52.038
But for the most part, it looks okay.

00:33:52.637 --> 00:33:54.159
Sometimes it's, you know,

00:33:54.179 --> 00:33:54.719
one of the machines,

00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:56.980
Ubuntu doesn't update

00:33:57.019 --> 00:33:59.661
properly because something about grub.

00:33:59.681 --> 00:34:01.961
There was something in Ubuntu twenty-two

00:34:02.816 --> 00:34:05.076
where it had some grub

00:34:05.178 --> 00:34:06.357
dependency or something and

00:34:06.377 --> 00:34:07.298
I've still got some of the

00:34:07.318 --> 00:34:08.159
boxes running uber so

00:34:08.179 --> 00:34:11.442
that's you know that that's

00:34:11.501 --> 00:34:12.481
one of the annoying things

00:34:12.561 --> 00:34:13.943
but typically the

00:34:13.963 --> 00:34:15.543
kubernetes boxes most of

00:34:15.563 --> 00:34:17.646
them just auto restart so

00:34:17.686 --> 00:34:18.385
they'll just reboot

00:34:18.405 --> 00:34:19.206
themselves when there's a

00:34:19.226 --> 00:34:21.027
security update for certain

00:34:21.047 --> 00:34:22.509
things I don't want that so

00:34:22.849 --> 00:34:23.730
I've made it so that they

00:34:23.769 --> 00:34:24.869
don't auto reboot they

00:34:24.889 --> 00:34:25.811
would apply the security

00:34:25.831 --> 00:34:27.152
patches but they don't auto

00:34:27.211 --> 00:34:28.773
reboot yeah and for that

00:34:28.952 --> 00:34:30.514
I'm usually just waiting for um

00:34:31.405 --> 00:34:31.905
In Thornode,

00:34:31.925 --> 00:34:33.626
you have a thing called churning out.

00:34:34.547 --> 00:34:36.849
So the way the validator set

00:34:36.869 --> 00:34:37.668
works is different.

00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:39.610
But if you're the lowest

00:34:39.869 --> 00:34:40.931
active in the active set,

00:34:40.951 --> 00:34:42.211
you're the worst performing

00:34:42.371 --> 00:34:43.072
or the oldest.

00:34:43.112 --> 00:34:43.833
And I think there's another

00:34:43.932 --> 00:34:45.414
reason you get churned out.

00:34:45.934 --> 00:34:46.815
You might get churned out.

00:34:46.875 --> 00:34:47.896
I do that every three days.

00:34:48.722 --> 00:34:49.923
And then you get churned back in again.

00:34:49.943 --> 00:34:50.985
So when you get churned out,

00:34:51.425 --> 00:34:53.266
that's when you can restart the machines,

00:34:53.306 --> 00:34:54.208
apply patches,

00:34:54.248 --> 00:34:56.028
and start configuring things.

00:34:56.909 --> 00:34:58.690
So I'm waiting for two of

00:34:58.710 --> 00:35:00.833
the nodes to churn out now

00:35:00.913 --> 00:35:02.094
because of things I need to do.

00:35:03.175 --> 00:35:04.436
And you also can't unbond

00:35:04.775 --> 00:35:05.896
when they're churned in either.

00:35:06.557 --> 00:35:08.960
It's a different network

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:11.101
setup and pros and cons and all that.

00:35:11.802 --> 00:35:13.603
But yeah,

00:35:13.623 --> 00:35:14.784
so it's just a matter of waiting

00:35:14.804 --> 00:35:16.025
for those when they get there.

00:35:16.045 --> 00:35:17.786
And I can get them to leave, but

00:35:18.134 --> 00:35:18.994
That means losing money.

00:35:19.614 --> 00:35:20.576
That is not critical.

00:35:20.596 --> 00:35:21.615
Right.

00:35:21.657 --> 00:35:24.498
You know, I mean, one of them,

00:35:24.579 --> 00:35:25.659
I misconfigured it and the

00:35:25.699 --> 00:35:26.820
actual four nodes nodes

00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.101
running on it on a machine

00:35:28.161 --> 00:35:30.101
I was going to get rid of.

00:35:31.063 --> 00:35:32.023
So the only thing running on

00:35:32.143 --> 00:35:33.505
now is that little four node.

00:35:34.025 --> 00:35:35.365
And I really don't want to

00:35:35.485 --> 00:35:36.306
have the downtime.

00:35:36.347 --> 00:35:37.047
So it's just going to sit

00:35:37.067 --> 00:35:39.168
there until it turns out.

00:35:39.188 --> 00:35:41.690
And then I just delete the PVC, sorry,

00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:43.692
the disk volume and restart

00:35:43.711 --> 00:35:46.273
it and just reboots itself.

00:35:50.367 --> 00:35:53.128
So it's cool.

00:35:53.148 --> 00:35:53.889
So no, it's not only,

00:35:53.949 --> 00:35:54.829
I find myself way more

00:35:54.869 --> 00:35:56.130
interested in using Kubernetes.

00:35:56.710 --> 00:35:57.090
Yeah.

00:35:57.650 --> 00:35:57.849
Yeah.

00:35:57.909 --> 00:35:59.971
I mean the, again, I'm, you know,

00:35:59.990 --> 00:36:01.612
the other key thing, you know, is,

00:36:01.711 --> 00:36:02.992
you know, the plane trips, you know,

00:36:03.271 --> 00:36:04.612
flying hours when there's

00:36:04.632 --> 00:36:06.413
no wifi can get nervous,

00:36:06.432 --> 00:36:08.934
but most of the time it's fine.

00:36:08.954 --> 00:36:09.594
And then, you know,

00:36:09.614 --> 00:36:11.414
that's probably the only gotcha I've,

00:36:11.554 --> 00:36:13.215
I've got really on this setup and.

00:36:14.344 --> 00:36:15.885
whatever reason it's one

00:36:15.925 --> 00:36:17.326
direction flying back from

00:36:17.385 --> 00:36:19.807
australia has no wi-fi the

00:36:19.847 --> 00:36:22.010
way you're in always it has

00:36:22.070 --> 00:36:24.452
wi-fi so it's good this is

00:36:24.492 --> 00:36:25.371
why I don't go to the

00:36:25.411 --> 00:36:27.594
states anymore yeah it's

00:36:27.614 --> 00:36:28.974
got nothing to do with like

00:36:29.295 --> 00:36:32.056
the leadership or tips no

00:36:32.097 --> 00:36:33.177
no we love our fearless

00:36:33.217 --> 00:36:34.920
leader uh we can't complain

00:36:35.663 --> 00:36:37.284
Because if we do as a non-citizen,

00:36:37.364 --> 00:36:38.503
we might not be let back in.

00:36:39.063 --> 00:36:41.385
Might end up in fucking Guantanamo.

00:36:41.545 --> 00:36:41.764
Yeah.

00:36:41.844 --> 00:36:42.925
Or El Salvador.

00:36:42.945 --> 00:36:44.065
Yeah.

00:36:44.106 --> 00:36:48.146
But no, for all your avid listeners,

00:36:48.606 --> 00:36:49.987
I'll be in Paris Blockchain

00:36:50.007 --> 00:36:52.969
Week and also in ConsenSys in Toronto.

00:36:53.829 --> 00:36:55.469
So I'll be going to those places.

00:36:55.528 --> 00:36:57.070
So hopefully we'll catch

00:36:57.090 --> 00:36:58.170
some Cosmos people there.

00:36:59.351 --> 00:37:00.530
Go to ConsenSys Toronto.

00:37:01.552 --> 00:37:03.454
I nearly went to PBW and

00:37:03.494 --> 00:37:05.394
then didn't because there

00:37:05.414 --> 00:37:08.918
was other... Yeah,

00:37:09.018 --> 00:37:10.358
I didn't know anybody going particularly,

00:37:10.398 --> 00:37:11.340
so I was just like, okay,

00:37:11.539 --> 00:37:13.942
nobody seems that psyched about it,

00:37:13.981 --> 00:37:15.043
so I won't bother even

00:37:15.063 --> 00:37:16.403
though it's just on the train.

00:37:16.423 --> 00:37:17.344
Well, this isn't me.

00:37:18.126 --> 00:37:20.628
I think KBW is the one for me this year.

00:37:21.228 --> 00:37:21.869
KBW?

00:37:22.708 --> 00:37:23.829
Korea Blockchain Week.

00:37:24.891 --> 00:37:25.771
Yeah?

00:37:25.891 --> 00:37:26.893
Yeah, I reckon it's going to be

00:37:28.253 --> 00:37:30.695
Pretty good over this side of the world.

00:37:31.375 --> 00:37:33.534
What about the token twenty

00:37:33.554 --> 00:37:34.496
forty nine in Singapore?

00:37:35.076 --> 00:37:35.335
Yeah,

00:37:35.356 --> 00:37:36.275
I think that's the other one I want

00:37:36.295 --> 00:37:37.016
to go to as well.

00:37:37.315 --> 00:37:39.117
And maybe DevConnect over in

00:37:39.476 --> 00:37:40.597
I think it's in Singapore as well.

00:37:41.097 --> 00:37:41.556
Yeah.

00:37:41.597 --> 00:37:43.418
So KBW is in September.

00:37:43.918 --> 00:37:44.978
Consensus Toronto,

00:37:45.018 --> 00:37:45.777
if you're going up there,

00:37:46.637 --> 00:37:47.278
I might go up there.

00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:48.358
I didn't know that was even

00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:50.358
I think I looked at this last year,

00:37:50.398 --> 00:37:51.920
but that might be something to go to.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:52.920
I mean, I'm pretty close.

00:37:53.876 --> 00:37:55.597
are there multiple consensus

00:37:55.657 --> 00:37:56.838
yeah or they just move it

00:37:56.858 --> 00:37:58.239
around there's one in hong

00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:59.059
kong as well I think

00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:00.420
there's usually multiple

00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:01.742
but is the one in austin

00:38:01.762 --> 00:38:03.764
still happening or do they

00:38:03.804 --> 00:38:05.985
just move it I think it was

00:38:06.025 --> 00:38:07.246
moved from austin this year

00:38:07.666 --> 00:38:11.728
really oh there you go to where toronto

00:38:13.722 --> 00:38:14.443
Toronto?

00:38:15.563 --> 00:38:17.425
Canada?

00:38:17.684 --> 00:38:18.385
Under the assumption that

00:38:18.405 --> 00:38:19.405
Canada will be a part of

00:38:19.445 --> 00:38:20.487
the United States by then.

00:38:20.507 --> 00:38:22.748
The Fifty-Third State?

00:38:22.809 --> 00:38:25.829
Isn't it already?

00:38:25.849 --> 00:38:32.173
Isn't Canada a state?

00:38:32.293 --> 00:38:32.514
I mean,

00:38:32.574 --> 00:38:34.094
you can't joke about that because

00:38:34.155 --> 00:38:35.315
as members of the Commonwealth,

00:38:35.356 --> 00:38:36.436
we're all going to be in

00:38:36.456 --> 00:38:37.516
the trenches defending

00:38:37.556 --> 00:38:38.838
Canada against America.

00:38:38.918 --> 00:38:39.579
It's going to be like...

00:38:40.668 --> 00:38:41.789
is turning to be an

00:38:41.949 --> 00:38:42.949
interesting world order

00:38:42.989 --> 00:38:45.791
that is for sure um yeah

00:38:45.851 --> 00:38:47.112
you know definitely

00:38:47.152 --> 00:38:48.172
definitely becoming life is

00:38:48.211 --> 00:38:49.873
becoming interesting you'll

00:38:49.893 --> 00:38:51.373
have to border hop pfc

00:38:51.594 --> 00:38:54.735
you'll have to jump over

00:38:54.775 --> 00:38:56.795
there to winnipeg yeah I

00:38:56.835 --> 00:38:57.896
wonder if mexi works in

00:38:57.936 --> 00:39:00.018
canada because all my vpns

00:39:00.038 --> 00:39:00.898
don't work with mexi

00:39:00.918 --> 00:39:02.199
anymore when I was in

00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:03.458
australia it was great I

00:39:03.478 --> 00:39:04.599
didn't have to use a vpn

00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:06.820
things just worked you know

00:39:07.425 --> 00:39:08.347
You could almost just get a

00:39:08.387 --> 00:39:10.007
Canadian SIM from where you

00:39:10.086 --> 00:39:14.110
are and like jump into like Ontario's, uh,

00:39:14.829 --> 00:39:15.349
network, right?

00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:15.469
Yeah.

00:39:15.489 --> 00:39:20.693
By the border with your cell tower.

00:39:20.713 --> 00:39:20.793
Yeah.

00:39:20.813 --> 00:39:24.255
I got looped in, um, what was his name?

00:39:24.675 --> 00:39:28.697
Um, the Osmos guy who's got the tattoo, uh,

00:39:29.217 --> 00:39:31.038
into an encrypt encrypted SIM.

00:39:32.518 --> 00:39:32.898
Jacob.

00:39:32.958 --> 00:39:33.239
Yes.

00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:34.679
He let me in onto an

00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:35.940
encrypted SIM discussion.

00:39:36.873 --> 00:39:38.815
which is really interesting, but it's like,

00:39:39.114 --> 00:39:40.916
uh, my phone is blowing up, you know,

00:39:41.077 --> 00:39:43.018
and signal, you know, when it comes up,

00:39:43.097 --> 00:39:44.219
I just get fifty messages

00:39:44.278 --> 00:39:45.398
on fifty different things

00:39:45.458 --> 00:39:46.880
because the one good red

00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:47.661
thing about signal is you

00:39:47.681 --> 00:39:48.440
need to make sure it's on

00:39:48.481 --> 00:39:50.342
multiple devices just so,

00:39:50.362 --> 00:39:51.543
so that everybody can see it.

00:39:51.563 --> 00:39:51.623
Yep.

00:39:51.643 --> 00:39:55.065
Um, but yeah,

00:39:55.105 --> 00:39:56.505
he was talking about encrypted SIMs.

00:39:56.525 --> 00:39:58.146
There's like free SIMs and all that,

00:39:58.166 --> 00:40:00.148
but Canadian SIM might, might be it.

00:40:00.608 --> 00:40:01.188
Uh,

00:40:01.208 --> 00:40:02.650
just I'll shove my VPN in there and

00:40:02.670 --> 00:40:03.610
just see if I can get wifi

00:40:03.650 --> 00:40:04.351
signal from where I am.

00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:06.840
Wi-Fi works that far.

00:40:07.601 --> 00:40:08.722
It makes the most sense.

00:40:09.302 --> 00:40:11.083
Yeah.

00:40:11.884 --> 00:40:16.286
Or just like stick a VPN

00:40:16.326 --> 00:40:17.447
from yourself on one of

00:40:17.467 --> 00:40:18.728
your little Kubernetes

00:40:19.148 --> 00:40:20.829
containers and then happy days.

00:40:21.608 --> 00:40:22.210
That would work.

00:40:22.750 --> 00:40:23.329
That would work.

00:40:24.431 --> 00:40:24.650
Yeah.

00:40:24.951 --> 00:40:25.371
Yeah.

00:40:25.391 --> 00:40:26.572
That's probably the best thing.

00:40:26.592 --> 00:40:27.612
And then I can use MexC.

00:40:28.594 --> 00:40:29.713
Own VPN, baby.

00:40:29.733 --> 00:40:29.813
Yeah.

00:40:29.833 --> 00:40:30.795
Yeah.

00:40:33.947 --> 00:40:36.590
No, I mean, the Paris and Toronto ones,

00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:39.411
because they're tourist destinations.

00:40:39.431 --> 00:40:39.811
Yeah, fair enough.

00:40:39.851 --> 00:40:44.034
Well, I mean,

00:40:44.054 --> 00:40:45.594
the other thing was instead of Paris,

00:40:47.096 --> 00:40:48.217
Paris Blockchain Week,

00:40:48.617 --> 00:40:51.539
because it's fucking expensive in Paris.

00:40:52.418 --> 00:40:53.139
Although actually what I'm

00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:54.581
about to say next doesn't

00:40:54.621 --> 00:40:55.701
make a lick of sense,

00:40:55.900 --> 00:40:57.481
if that's your reason.

00:40:57.561 --> 00:41:01.804
But ETHCC is in Cannes.

00:41:04.434 --> 00:41:05.875
on the French Riviera in the

00:41:05.894 --> 00:41:06.954
middle of fucking summer.

00:41:07.155 --> 00:41:11.396
So quite literally a holiday.

00:41:11.416 --> 00:41:12.597
Yeah, I mean,

00:41:12.737 --> 00:41:14.177
these people go to these

00:41:14.217 --> 00:41:16.117
tourist destinations in the name of,

00:41:16.157 --> 00:41:17.478
you know, just fact-finding.

00:41:17.498 --> 00:41:17.679
I mean,

00:41:17.778 --> 00:41:19.858
I would never just fly to a tourist

00:41:20.380 --> 00:41:21.480
hotspot in Australia and

00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.119
just sit there for a week or two.

00:41:26.001 --> 00:41:27.181
That's the one cultural

00:41:27.222 --> 00:41:27.782
difference that I

00:41:27.802 --> 00:41:28.702
appreciate in Australia.

00:41:29.322 --> 00:41:30.543
Sitting on the beach in...

00:41:32.722 --> 00:41:33.422
God, where was it?

00:41:34.063 --> 00:41:35.806
Noosa.

00:41:35.826 --> 00:41:37.867
Just watching the birds go by, so to speak,

00:41:38.708 --> 00:41:41.692
versus, you know, it was great.

00:41:41.713 --> 00:41:43.454
I mean, I could do this.

00:41:43.514 --> 00:41:44.916
You know, I had my laptop out from,

00:41:44.956 --> 00:41:45.416
you know,

00:41:45.516 --> 00:41:46.478
overlooking the beach and just

00:41:46.518 --> 00:41:47.880
watching that.

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:48.760
Got you a Maito.

00:41:49.581 --> 00:41:50.061
Exactly.

00:41:50.081 --> 00:41:51.344
Yeah.

00:41:52.722 --> 00:41:53.541
know all of them are

00:41:53.581 --> 00:41:54.262
tourists all of them are

00:41:54.282 --> 00:41:55.242
foreign and you have you

00:41:55.262 --> 00:41:56.824
know a great you know great

00:41:56.864 --> 00:41:58.284
cultural appeal you know

00:41:58.304 --> 00:41:59.324
tons of different things to

00:41:59.364 --> 00:42:01.184
see no sir is a pretty good

00:42:01.224 --> 00:42:02.565
spot for bird watching too

00:42:03.005 --> 00:42:04.806
exactly big national forest

00:42:04.827 --> 00:42:05.606
there right on the headline

00:42:05.626 --> 00:42:07.847
is that I didn't realize oh

00:42:07.927 --> 00:42:09.809
yeah maybe um but yes uh

00:42:09.869 --> 00:42:12.449
this is great and um then

00:42:12.469 --> 00:42:13.409
you go down to broad beach

00:42:13.429 --> 00:42:14.431
and you see it you know and

00:42:14.931 --> 00:42:16.472
the cultural norms you know

00:42:16.512 --> 00:42:17.811
change as you go further south

00:42:20.657 --> 00:42:21.038
Yeah.

00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:22.500
Actually, Noosa is a fair way up.

00:42:23.481 --> 00:42:24.422
It is a fair way up there.

00:42:25.123 --> 00:42:26.043
It's at least halfway.

00:42:26.063 --> 00:42:28.686
Yeah.

00:42:28.726 --> 00:42:29.447
Jesus, man.

00:42:31.362 --> 00:42:35.467
I just, God, as you go, as you go North,

00:42:35.527 --> 00:42:36.907
I'm just looking at the map and I just,

00:42:37.027 --> 00:42:37.307
I get,

00:42:37.568 --> 00:42:39.130
I'm sweating as I look further

00:42:39.190 --> 00:42:42.273
North to like Townsville and Cairns.

00:42:42.293 --> 00:42:43.474
It's fucking hot.

00:42:43.494 --> 00:42:43.594
Yeah.

00:42:43.614 --> 00:42:45.114
I was, we were playing.

00:42:45.295 --> 00:42:47.697
So my wife is a native from here, which,

00:42:47.717 --> 00:42:48.217
so I live in the Midwest

00:42:48.237 --> 00:42:48.858
and it's very cold typically,

00:42:48.878 --> 00:42:49.659
although it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:50.340
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:51.121
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:51.141 --> 00:42:51.760
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:52.722
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:52.742 --> 00:42:53.422
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:53.483 --> 00:42:54.422
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:54.463 --> 00:42:55.344
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:55.384 --> 00:42:56.144
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:56.184 --> 00:42:56.846
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:56.865 --> 00:42:57.485
it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:42:57.505 --> 00:42:58.306
it's like, it's like

00:42:58.586 --> 00:42:59.547
But it gets down to negatives.

00:42:59.847 --> 00:43:00.907
So she's not used to the heat.

00:43:01.068 --> 00:43:02.088
So we took her up to Noosa

00:43:02.329 --> 00:43:03.289
and that was her limit.

00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:07.190
Even that was above her limit.

00:43:07.210 --> 00:43:08.072
It was just too humid.

00:43:08.532 --> 00:43:09.253
And we were planning to go

00:43:09.293 --> 00:43:11.092
up to Townsville and Cairns,

00:43:11.132 --> 00:43:12.193
which are even worse.

00:43:13.034 --> 00:43:14.914
And luckily they got, well, not luckily,

00:43:14.974 --> 00:43:16.135
but they got flooded a week

00:43:16.175 --> 00:43:16.795
before we left.

00:43:17.317 --> 00:43:18.257
So we just did a major

00:43:18.376 --> 00:43:20.577
U-turn and drove down to Sydney instead.

00:43:21.318 --> 00:43:24.460
The humidity in Cairns is what kills you.

00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:26.902
It is fucking so humid up there.

00:43:26.942 --> 00:43:27.302
Humidity.

00:43:28.512 --> 00:43:29.494
The humidity.

00:43:32.777 --> 00:43:35.539
Also, like, yeah,

00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:36.760
quite close to the equator.

00:43:37.240 --> 00:43:37.601
Yeah.

00:43:37.621 --> 00:43:38.481
I mean, I'm from Melbourne,

00:43:38.501 --> 00:43:39.902
so the heat didn't bother me.

00:43:39.983 --> 00:43:41.083
It was the humidity.

00:43:41.103 --> 00:43:42.286
Just nice dry heat.

00:43:42.385 --> 00:43:42.905
I miss that.

00:43:44.527 --> 00:43:45.809
Well, you know, sometimes.

00:43:46.969 --> 00:43:48.929
Later that day, it's a rainstorm.

00:43:49.329 --> 00:43:49.989
That is true.

00:43:50.030 --> 00:43:50.949
And a bit later on that day,

00:43:50.989 --> 00:43:52.050
you'll probably have some snow.

00:43:57.231 --> 00:43:57.811
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:57.891 --> 00:43:58.293
Yeah, I mean,

00:43:59.052 --> 00:44:00.452
I've only been up that far

00:44:00.492 --> 00:44:03.333
north like twice in my life.

00:44:03.673 --> 00:44:06.815
Once to Darwin or Northern

00:44:06.835 --> 00:44:09.576
Territory and once to

00:44:09.675 --> 00:44:11.536
Cairns slash Port Douglas.

00:44:12.317 --> 00:44:13.717
I've been to fucking Port Douglas.

00:44:14.197 --> 00:44:14.518
Have you?

00:44:15.237 --> 00:44:15.378
Yeah.

00:44:17.789 --> 00:44:20.391
I like Port Douglas and Palm Coast.

00:44:20.831 --> 00:44:21.771
Go see the Daintree.

00:44:22.532 --> 00:44:23.413
Go on that train,

00:44:23.514 --> 00:44:25.074
the train that goes into the forest.

00:44:25.135 --> 00:44:26.215
You know me, I like a train.

00:44:26.896 --> 00:44:27.797
Yeah.

00:44:27.856 --> 00:44:29.657
You know, the one that goes up the old,

00:44:30.018 --> 00:44:31.838
was it the mining railway?

00:44:31.878 --> 00:44:34.780
Was it the, it was a working train,

00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:35.081
wasn't it?

00:44:35.101 --> 00:44:36.742
For doing something in the rainforest.

00:44:36.762 --> 00:44:37.762
I can't remember what though.

00:44:37.963 --> 00:44:39.143
It must have been mining.

00:44:39.925 --> 00:44:40.664
Not going to lie.

00:44:40.864 --> 00:44:41.885
I never caught the train,

00:44:41.985 --> 00:44:44.068
but Daintree is a massive rainforest.

00:44:44.108 --> 00:44:44.427
Yeah.

00:44:45.349 --> 00:44:46.471
I'm sure they've got mining

00:44:46.490 --> 00:44:47.753
there somewhere and you

00:44:47.773 --> 00:44:48.554
know if australia's can't

00:44:48.594 --> 00:44:49.554
dig it out then it can't be

00:44:49.594 --> 00:44:50.916
dug out it's like the

00:44:50.996 --> 00:44:52.798
karanda tourist railway or

00:44:52.818 --> 00:44:54.420
something now like it's it

00:44:54.501 --> 00:44:55.461
used to have stations on it

00:44:55.481 --> 00:44:56.242
but basically just takes

00:44:56.322 --> 00:44:58.565
uses one town is this the

00:44:58.626 --> 00:44:59.367
one like on top of the

00:44:59.407 --> 00:45:00.367
mountain yeah yeah yeah

00:45:00.387 --> 00:45:02.010
yeah that's the one it's

00:45:02.030 --> 00:45:03.751
good it's nice it's like

00:45:06.701 --> 00:45:09.601
thing to do there's some

00:45:09.621 --> 00:45:10.481
good four wheel drive

00:45:10.501 --> 00:45:12.043
tracks up right up north

00:45:12.063 --> 00:45:13.023
there like the old

00:45:13.163 --> 00:45:14.744
telegraph track and stuff

00:45:14.804 --> 00:45:17.384
right up there I saw the

00:45:17.503 --> 00:45:18.985
arse of one of those what's

00:45:19.005 --> 00:45:20.125
the big the fucking

00:45:20.164 --> 00:45:23.766
dinosaur killer bird oh

00:45:23.806 --> 00:45:26.547
cassowary saw the arse of a

00:45:26.567 --> 00:45:27.927
cassowary disappearing into

00:45:27.967 --> 00:45:29.967
the bush at one point my

00:45:29.987 --> 00:45:30.768
wife was just like that's a

00:45:30.789 --> 00:45:31.909
fucking cassowary I was

00:45:31.929 --> 00:45:32.929
like huh and by the time I

00:45:32.949 --> 00:45:35.010
turned around it was like just this bum

00:45:36.175 --> 00:45:37.077
Yeah,

00:45:37.137 --> 00:45:38.137
and that's the great thing about Far

00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:38.719
North Queensland.

00:45:38.739 --> 00:45:40.603
They've got big signs, do not swim here,

00:45:41.503 --> 00:45:41.804
you know,

00:45:42.706 --> 00:45:44.188
right next to where you can see

00:45:44.208 --> 00:45:45.170
some towels and all that

00:45:45.190 --> 00:45:46.253
kind of stuff of people swimming.

00:45:46.273 --> 00:45:46.353
Yeah.

00:45:47.612 --> 00:45:48.574
yeah when I well there's

00:45:48.635 --> 00:45:49.414
also when I was there it

00:45:49.434 --> 00:45:50.416
was like box jellyfish

00:45:50.456 --> 00:45:51.416
season so it was like

00:45:51.478 --> 00:45:53.018
really like the signs were

00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:55.302
like do not fucking go in

00:45:55.322 --> 00:45:56.902
the water or you will die

00:45:56.963 --> 00:45:58.144
immediately I was like

00:45:58.184 --> 00:45:59.606
fucking australia man what

00:45:59.626 --> 00:46:02.869
the fuck like can't do most

00:46:02.949 --> 00:46:05.351
of like most of the north

00:46:05.572 --> 00:46:07.054
you can't swim in like year

00:46:07.074 --> 00:46:09.215
round on the northeast there's fucking

00:46:10.117 --> 00:46:13.398
crocodiles and and uh box

00:46:13.418 --> 00:46:14.760
generally near a kanji

00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:17.181
everywhere in like like the

00:46:17.260 --> 00:46:18.561
wharf bits around where

00:46:18.601 --> 00:46:19.101
there were like people

00:46:19.121 --> 00:46:20.242
getting on and off boats

00:46:20.282 --> 00:46:21.182
and shit it was just like

00:46:21.222 --> 00:46:21.983
don't go in the fucking

00:46:22.003 --> 00:46:23.065
water there's crocs here

00:46:23.585 --> 00:46:24.925
and then don't pull up like

00:46:24.945 --> 00:46:26.666
don't pull up and you're

00:46:26.686 --> 00:46:28.206
like all right yeah winding

00:46:28.226 --> 00:46:29.608
up towards if you see the

00:46:29.688 --> 00:46:30.809
crocs and the boats are

00:46:30.829 --> 00:46:31.809
like that's a croc

00:46:31.849 --> 00:46:32.750
literally right there that

00:46:32.769 --> 00:46:34.351
log that's a fucking croc and you're like

00:46:34.954 --> 00:46:35.074
oh,

00:46:35.135 --> 00:46:36.396
it does look a little bit like a

00:46:36.436 --> 00:46:37.356
crocodile, actually.

00:46:37.476 --> 00:46:38.076
And they're like, yeah,

00:46:38.096 --> 00:46:39.297
because it's a fucking crocodile.

00:46:39.317 --> 00:46:40.197
You're like, man,

00:46:40.277 --> 00:46:42.378
Australia is so full of dangerous shit.

00:46:42.418 --> 00:46:42.938
What the fuck?

00:46:42.958 --> 00:46:43.798
Yeah, but it's okay,

00:46:43.818 --> 00:46:44.820
because if you see a croc

00:46:44.860 --> 00:46:45.480
on one of those things,

00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:46.981
just run into a school, and they're safe.

00:46:49.322 --> 00:46:51.081
What?

00:46:51.101 --> 00:46:51.902
As opposed to other

00:46:51.943 --> 00:46:53.884
countries where you run out of school.

00:46:53.963 --> 00:46:55.244
Anyway, fell flat.

00:46:55.684 --> 00:46:56.025
Sorry.

00:47:03.577 --> 00:47:07.137
That one's over my head as well.

00:47:07.157 --> 00:47:09.297
Just Google, are schools safe?

00:47:10.579 --> 00:47:13.039
USA will find out what I mean.

00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:14.478
Or Texas more specifically.

00:47:14.498 --> 00:47:16.380
Yeah, Texas is a great place.

00:47:17.739 --> 00:47:18.159
But yeah,

00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:19.280
we went to Australia Zoo while we

00:47:19.300 --> 00:47:19.679
were there.

00:47:20.500 --> 00:47:21.860
And yes,

00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:23.041
they had the croc shows and all

00:47:23.061 --> 00:47:23.701
that kind of stuff.

00:47:23.740 --> 00:47:24.740
But there was two of the

00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.681
guys actually trying to

00:47:25.721 --> 00:47:26.782
clean out one of the croc

00:47:26.802 --> 00:47:29.121
pits while there was two crocs in there.

00:47:30.288 --> 00:47:31.748
and you could just see you

00:47:31.789 --> 00:47:32.409
know they had their

00:47:32.429 --> 00:47:33.550
routines but as soon as one

00:47:33.570 --> 00:47:34.369
of them went in the water

00:47:34.769 --> 00:47:36.490
they both you know took two

00:47:36.510 --> 00:47:37.871
steps back trying to get it

00:47:37.891 --> 00:47:39.012
back out of the water so

00:47:39.032 --> 00:47:40.012
they could see where it was

00:47:40.152 --> 00:47:41.092
before they kept on doing

00:47:41.152 --> 00:47:42.833
it so yeah the three is

00:47:42.853 --> 00:47:47.036
real crazy stuff so like uh

00:47:47.596 --> 00:47:50.277
back on off of australian

00:47:50.336 --> 00:47:53.438
danger and what are you um

00:47:53.858 --> 00:47:55.099
aside from obviously seeing

00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:55.840
the sites which is

00:47:55.980 --> 00:47:56.900
obviously not something you

00:47:56.980 --> 00:47:58.041
would do on a business trip

00:47:58.797 --> 00:48:01.117
Um, but like, what's your main, like,

00:48:01.137 --> 00:48:01.597
what's the thing you're

00:48:01.617 --> 00:48:02.278
most excited about,

00:48:02.298 --> 00:48:03.318
about the conference season?

00:48:03.338 --> 00:48:04.539
I mean, it's something we talk about,

00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.360
like perhaps too much on the podcast.

00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:08.141
Like what, what,

00:48:08.161 --> 00:48:09.121
what are you interested in?

00:48:09.141 --> 00:48:09.742
But is it like,

00:48:10.362 --> 00:48:11.143
is it mainly like sort of

00:48:11.182 --> 00:48:12.103
new networks and getting a

00:48:12.123 --> 00:48:12.684
feel for things?

00:48:12.704 --> 00:48:13.184
Or is there something

00:48:13.204 --> 00:48:16.224
specific where you're like, I mean,

00:48:16.346 --> 00:48:17.726
other than the obvious shit, right.

00:48:17.746 --> 00:48:19.427
Which is that we, we all run businesses.

00:48:19.487 --> 00:48:21.188
So, you know, networking.

00:48:21.851 --> 00:48:22.891
It's networking.

00:48:23.072 --> 00:48:25.713
I mean, you know, I missed the Denver,

00:48:26.014 --> 00:48:26.534
East Denver.

00:48:26.793 --> 00:48:28.474
So catching up with people

00:48:28.514 --> 00:48:28.974
if they're there,

00:48:29.695 --> 00:48:30.295
seeing if there's new

00:48:30.315 --> 00:48:32.737
chains out there and just

00:48:32.757 --> 00:48:33.637
seeing what's interesting.

00:48:33.657 --> 00:48:34.036
You know,

00:48:34.056 --> 00:48:35.498
there's always something going on

00:48:36.077 --> 00:48:37.057
in the space and you have

00:48:37.077 --> 00:48:38.139
to go to these places just

00:48:38.179 --> 00:48:39.980
to hear what they are.

00:48:41.059 --> 00:48:42.221
What are the use cases that

00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:43.621
like have been interesting

00:48:43.641 --> 00:48:44.641
you the most over the last

00:48:44.681 --> 00:48:45.402
like year or so?

00:48:46.818 --> 00:48:48.360
It's like I've been asleep for six months.

00:48:48.500 --> 00:48:50.521
But some of the, you know,

00:48:50.541 --> 00:48:51.802
I've always got to ear out

00:48:51.963 --> 00:48:53.603
for encryption and privacy

00:48:53.643 --> 00:48:54.764
type chains because I think

00:48:54.824 --> 00:48:56.146
they're super interesting.

00:48:58.268 --> 00:48:59.708
know stuff around finance

00:49:00.208 --> 00:49:01.210
you know are there any more

00:49:01.489 --> 00:49:02.291
interesting finance

00:49:02.311 --> 00:49:03.492
applications I'm still

00:49:03.512 --> 00:49:05.393
looking for stuff to help

00:49:05.432 --> 00:49:07.454
displace banking so lending

00:49:07.494 --> 00:49:08.894
pools and stuff like that

00:49:08.914 --> 00:49:10.836
and seeing how people doing

00:49:10.856 --> 00:49:12.617
that stuff how are people

00:49:12.637 --> 00:49:14.378
approaching credit so those

00:49:14.398 --> 00:49:15.239
are the things I'm looking

00:49:15.260 --> 00:49:16.280
for to see how people have

00:49:16.340 --> 00:49:17.201
done those kind of things

00:49:17.702 --> 00:49:19.262
the zk stuff is interesting

00:49:19.322 --> 00:49:21.543
but it's like you know it

00:49:21.563 --> 00:49:22.545
doesn't solve a lot of the

00:49:22.565 --> 00:49:24.545
problems you know everyone

00:49:24.565 --> 00:49:25.407
says oh zk will solve this

00:49:25.427 --> 00:49:26.547
and they go well no

00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:28.541
it doesn't you know I'm

00:49:28.561 --> 00:49:29.583
looking at how can a bank

00:49:31.125 --> 00:49:32.367
actually run run on a

00:49:32.387 --> 00:49:33.648
blockchain you know or do

00:49:33.768 --> 00:49:34.550
something on a blockchain

00:49:34.570 --> 00:49:35.891
that they do today and zk

00:49:35.931 --> 00:49:37.012
doesn't help for a lot of

00:49:37.032 --> 00:49:38.994
this stuff um that's

00:49:39.014 --> 00:49:39.735
probably the more

00:49:39.815 --> 00:49:40.876
interesting thing but then

00:49:40.896 --> 00:49:41.637
it's just more just

00:49:42.105 --> 00:49:44.146
networking and try to get some new leads.

00:49:45.788 --> 00:49:46.688
The number of test nets I'm

00:49:46.708 --> 00:49:48.170
running on is drying up and

00:49:48.210 --> 00:49:49.771
I need some more and just

00:49:49.791 --> 00:49:52.132
need to get into different places.

00:49:52.552 --> 00:49:54.494
I'm finding out too late

00:49:54.934 --> 00:49:56.617
about new networks and that

00:49:56.657 --> 00:49:57.777
kind of sucks because by

00:49:57.797 --> 00:49:59.259
the time I find out that, sorry,

00:49:59.278 --> 00:49:59.759
we've already got a

00:49:59.778 --> 00:50:00.659
thousand applications.

00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:03.681
How will you be able to burn

00:50:03.722 --> 00:50:07.385
your cash if you don't have

00:50:07.405 --> 00:50:08.606
a steady flow of test nets

00:50:08.686 --> 00:50:09.766
coming through the door?

00:50:10.268 --> 00:50:11.608
There's a thing called thought chain.

00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:14.101
um you put it you put your

00:50:14.141 --> 00:50:14.760
money in there when it's

00:50:14.780 --> 00:50:17.043
four or seven bucks and I

00:50:17.083 --> 00:50:18.103
did it with luna beforehand

00:50:18.123 --> 00:50:19.884
it was great and I now I'm

00:50:19.923 --> 00:50:21.244
doing it with thor chain so

00:50:21.905 --> 00:50:23.626
anyway I shouldn't you know

00:50:23.666 --> 00:50:24.766
they'll probably piss off

00:50:24.806 --> 00:50:26.447
but now piss me off but at

00:50:26.527 --> 00:50:27.909
the moment they actually

00:50:27.929 --> 00:50:28.929
got a really great story

00:50:28.989 --> 00:50:29.789
coming through I'm looking

00:50:29.809 --> 00:50:32.972
forward to the uh upgrade

00:50:33.032 --> 00:50:34.193
so hopefully that will make

00:50:34.213 --> 00:50:35.673
my money back can you

00:50:35.733 --> 00:50:39.275
explain rugira to me okay um

00:50:40.269 --> 00:50:41.150
Basically,

00:50:41.431 --> 00:50:43.512
ThorChain is a DeFi swap space

00:50:43.552 --> 00:50:44.492
where you basically swap

00:50:44.751 --> 00:50:47.032
coin A on network A to coin

00:50:47.072 --> 00:50:49.514
B on network B. What

00:50:49.554 --> 00:50:51.175
they're trying to do is add

00:50:51.195 --> 00:50:52.635
some finance applications

00:50:53.195 --> 00:50:54.916
inside the actual network itself.

00:50:55.528 --> 00:50:56.510
So that while you have

00:50:56.570 --> 00:50:59.512
access to a Bitcoin or a AVAX or whatever,

00:51:00.072 --> 00:51:00.773
you can actually do

00:51:00.833 --> 00:51:01.994
something with your coin in the middle,

00:51:02.634 --> 00:51:04.215
as opposed to just swapping them.

00:51:04.416 --> 00:51:05.777
So they're adding some functionality.

00:51:06.237 --> 00:51:07.577
So Rudra was an order book.

00:51:07.898 --> 00:51:08.278
It has,

00:51:08.778 --> 00:51:10.019
there's some perps going on with

00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:11.581
that and various other

00:51:12.101 --> 00:51:13.882
finance applications that

00:51:13.902 --> 00:51:15.403
they took off the Kudra network.

00:51:15.684 --> 00:51:16.264
And they're basically

00:51:16.284 --> 00:51:17.806
bringing it across from a

00:51:17.885 --> 00:51:19.306
technical perspective.

00:51:19.786 --> 00:51:21.628
They should be running with

00:51:21.648 --> 00:51:22.829
Thor chain security model.

00:51:23.909 --> 00:51:24.931
So they'll basically have,

00:51:26.197 --> 00:51:30.418
that level of network activity on there.

00:51:30.860 --> 00:51:32.481
I don't think there's another Thor chat,

00:51:32.940 --> 00:51:34.202
a Rudra node that you run.

00:51:34.621 --> 00:51:36.103
It's basically the Thornet

00:51:36.182 --> 00:51:37.103
node operators will just

00:51:37.164 --> 00:51:38.864
run the Rudra node if they

00:51:38.885 --> 00:51:40.885
need it and so on.

00:51:40.905 --> 00:51:42.027
So it's a DeFi chain.

00:51:42.266 --> 00:51:44.409
So it's basically all the

00:51:44.429 --> 00:51:46.989
stuff that was on Kujara,

00:51:47.110 --> 00:51:48.110
they've upgraded and

00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:51.163
And it will now work on a thought chain,

00:51:51.242 --> 00:51:52.063
which is again,

00:51:52.123 --> 00:51:53.545
it's a thought chain under

00:51:53.565 --> 00:51:57.128
the covers is a SDK, uh, network.

00:51:57.889 --> 00:51:58.050
Hmm.

00:51:58.070 --> 00:51:59.211
You know, they've got other bids,

00:51:59.291 --> 00:52:00.452
but that's the majority of it.

00:52:01.173 --> 00:52:02.715
Because Kujira is

00:52:02.755 --> 00:52:05.197
effectively abandoned now, right?

00:52:05.217 --> 00:52:05.518
Correct.

00:52:06.302 --> 00:52:07.003
Yeah.

00:52:07.083 --> 00:52:08.123
I've not seen any dev

00:52:08.164 --> 00:52:10.005
activity there in like two years.

00:52:10.204 --> 00:52:11.106
So is it L two?

00:52:11.186 --> 00:52:12.085
It's not L two, right?

00:52:12.427 --> 00:52:13.967
It's not like a CS type structure.

00:52:14.347 --> 00:52:16.748
No, it's, I think it's actually,

00:52:17.009 --> 00:52:17.929
I don't know exactly how

00:52:17.949 --> 00:52:18.710
it's supposed to operate.

00:52:18.750 --> 00:52:19.990
I haven't paid that much attention.

00:52:21.081 --> 00:52:22.101
uh to the technical things

00:52:22.262 --> 00:52:23.402
about how it will work but

00:52:23.702 --> 00:52:25.503
it they do something okay

00:52:25.623 --> 00:52:27.123
it could be it could be

00:52:27.143 --> 00:52:28.184
running this it could be

00:52:28.224 --> 00:52:29.804
running it could be an

00:52:29.885 --> 00:52:31.105
l-two that might be the

00:52:31.125 --> 00:52:32.146
easiest way or there might

00:52:32.186 --> 00:52:32.865
be some there's some sort

00:52:32.885 --> 00:52:34.567
of finality on thor chain I

00:52:34.586 --> 00:52:35.927
guess this is what has to

00:52:35.947 --> 00:52:37.668
happen right but yeah but I

00:52:37.688 --> 00:52:39.407
believe so but the rugira

00:52:39.547 --> 00:52:40.268
but there is a separate

00:52:40.289 --> 00:52:41.469
blockchain like so they are

00:52:41.509 --> 00:52:43.929
still keeping along some of the kujira

00:52:44.909 --> 00:52:47.572
chain specifics um and

00:52:47.612 --> 00:52:48.413
running I guess the new

00:52:48.472 --> 00:52:49.653
site on that on that chain

00:52:49.713 --> 00:52:51.835
is that right yeah it's you

00:52:51.856 --> 00:52:53.097
know definitely because

00:52:53.436 --> 00:52:54.478
they've got smart contracts

00:52:54.498 --> 00:52:54.978
and they'll be very

00:52:54.998 --> 00:52:56.239
permission smart contracts

00:52:56.380 --> 00:52:57.260
so could you had some

00:52:57.280 --> 00:52:59.443
permission ones but I think

00:52:59.483 --> 00:53:00.543
it will work like like that

00:53:00.864 --> 00:53:02.005
they'll have like their own

00:53:02.864 --> 00:53:04.407
their vm in there and they'll run that

00:53:05.422 --> 00:53:05.981
don't think there's any

00:53:06.041 --> 00:53:08.402
custom modules uh you know

00:53:08.422 --> 00:53:10.023
they're really close I

00:53:10.043 --> 00:53:11.304
think three point four is

00:53:11.324 --> 00:53:12.224
supposed to be the one that

00:53:12.244 --> 00:53:13.644
they release on because it

00:53:13.664 --> 00:53:14.505
was like one or two little

00:53:14.525 --> 00:53:15.706
things strange love is

00:53:15.746 --> 00:53:16.445
actually building it

00:53:16.846 --> 00:53:17.746
they'll be the right people

00:53:17.967 --> 00:53:19.567
to talk to yeah yeah I

00:53:19.586 --> 00:53:20.987
think yeah it's not just

00:53:21.208 --> 00:53:22.367
it's not just thor chain

00:53:22.527 --> 00:53:23.989
integrating a smart

00:53:24.028 --> 00:53:25.048
contract vm and then

00:53:25.068 --> 00:53:25.949
launching kajira's

00:53:25.989 --> 00:53:27.010
contracts and permission

00:53:27.050 --> 00:53:29.210
mode then I don't know it

00:53:29.231 --> 00:53:30.331
could be but my

00:53:30.371 --> 00:53:31.070
understanding was it

00:53:31.110 --> 00:53:32.371
slightly different it's more than that

00:53:33.331 --> 00:53:33.452
Yeah,

00:53:33.472 --> 00:53:35.074
I think Jack and team have been

00:53:35.094 --> 00:53:36.353
working on Thor for about a

00:53:36.393 --> 00:53:37.195
year or something like that.

00:53:37.215 --> 00:53:38.135
It feels like it's been a while.

00:53:40.257 --> 00:53:41.077
Yeah, that's pretty cool.

00:53:42.077 --> 00:53:43.179
I don't think I even knew.

00:53:43.259 --> 00:53:45.460
I mean, until the Kujira thing happened,

00:53:45.481 --> 00:53:46.240
I didn't even know Thirteen

00:53:46.942 --> 00:53:48.262
was a Cosmos Wasm chain.

00:53:49.324 --> 00:53:51.485
But yeah,

00:53:51.625 --> 00:53:52.905
it's just a standard Tendermint chain.

00:53:52.925 --> 00:53:54.567
There's no separate execution layer.

00:53:54.586 --> 00:53:55.507
It's all Tendermint.

00:53:56.572 --> 00:53:58.594
they do so that it's a

00:53:58.655 --> 00:53:59.755
customized tenderman

00:54:00.135 --> 00:54:01.295
heavily customized they've

00:54:01.315 --> 00:54:02.637
changed some of the modules

00:54:02.657 --> 00:54:03.898
for example the staking

00:54:03.938 --> 00:54:05.278
modules completely changed

00:54:05.318 --> 00:54:06.019
the governance has

00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:08.141
completely changed yeah uh

00:54:08.181 --> 00:54:09.302
so they started off with

00:54:09.322 --> 00:54:10.563
tendermint and they went

00:54:10.583 --> 00:54:12.965
their own path yeah um so

00:54:12.985 --> 00:54:14.186
they've got that the key

00:54:14.206 --> 00:54:15.085
thing which they do which

00:54:15.367 --> 00:54:16.527
is interesting is they have

00:54:16.567 --> 00:54:19.028
security vaults so so

00:54:19.048 --> 00:54:20.150
security vault is eighteen

00:54:20.210 --> 00:54:22.030
notes so they have up to

00:54:22.050 --> 00:54:22.672
one hundred and twenty

00:54:23.373 --> 00:54:24.815
Um, nodes running on the network.

00:54:24.835 --> 00:54:25.715
I think there's like,

00:54:25.755 --> 00:54:26.454
running at the moment.

00:54:26.494 --> 00:54:26.574
Yeah.

00:54:27.315 --> 00:54:29.677
And they are divided up and like,

00:54:29.697 --> 00:54:31.536
of the nodes, uh, create a vault,

00:54:31.657 --> 00:54:32.518
a multi-sig vault.

00:54:32.818 --> 00:54:33.617
Mm-hmm and that's where all

00:54:33.637 --> 00:54:34.398
the funds are locked.

00:54:34.418 --> 00:54:35.259
So when you bond,

00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:36.559
what you're doing is you're

00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:38.780
actually contributing to that vault.

00:54:39.019 --> 00:54:40.661
And when you churn in and out,

00:54:40.780 --> 00:54:42.101
they change the keys of the

00:54:42.141 --> 00:54:43.702
multi-sigs and add the new

00:54:43.722 --> 00:54:45.963
pla add the new people in and out and.

00:54:46.797 --> 00:54:47.297
and all that stuff.

00:54:47.318 --> 00:54:48.018
So that's the key thing.

00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:50.440
And they run something called Bifrost,

00:54:50.579 --> 00:54:51.420
which does that.

00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:54.282
And that's, I think Bifrost, again,

00:54:54.342 --> 00:54:54.623
I'm not,

00:54:54.943 --> 00:54:56.003
I haven't gone too far into the

00:54:56.023 --> 00:54:57.103
weeds technically because I

00:54:57.143 --> 00:54:58.324
just had a hundred other things going on.

00:54:58.905 --> 00:55:00.445
But Bifrost is the one which

00:55:00.485 --> 00:55:01.246
actually signs all the

00:55:01.266 --> 00:55:02.447
packages and talks to all

00:55:02.768 --> 00:55:04.829
the other networks.

00:55:04.869 --> 00:55:06.469
So that's the agent.

00:55:06.489 --> 00:55:07.110
So for example,

00:55:07.130 --> 00:55:09.110
when I'm doing a Bitcoin trade,

00:55:09.472 --> 00:55:10.291
it's the Bifrost,

00:55:10.331 --> 00:55:10.932
which is actually

00:55:11.373 --> 00:55:13.474
communicating to Bitcoin

00:55:14.215 --> 00:55:15.514
and talking to it.

00:55:15.554 --> 00:55:16.396
I think that's how it works.

00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:18.842
That's pretty interesting in

00:55:18.882 --> 00:55:19.521
terms of having the,

00:55:19.702 --> 00:55:21.722
the kind of in and out of that, of that.

00:55:21.842 --> 00:55:24.543
It's kind of like after the

00:55:24.643 --> 00:55:26.065
helium set went live, that was,

00:55:26.445 --> 00:55:27.365
I forget what they call that proof.

00:55:27.606 --> 00:55:31.467
It's proof of it's not proof of stake.

00:55:31.487 --> 00:55:31.967
It's proof of,

00:55:31.987 --> 00:55:33.668
I don't even know what the hell it is,

00:55:33.708 --> 00:55:34.409
but the same type of thing,

00:55:34.429 --> 00:55:36.349
like you got elected in and it was there.

00:55:36.369 --> 00:55:36.951
It was random.

00:55:36.990 --> 00:55:38.331
Like you had, I forget what it was,

00:55:38.391 --> 00:55:38.992
forty one nodes or

00:55:39.012 --> 00:55:39.592
something like that that

00:55:39.612 --> 00:55:40.432
got elected in for a

00:55:40.472 --> 00:55:41.353
specific time period.

00:55:41.373 --> 00:55:41.873
Say it's eight.

00:55:42.112 --> 00:55:42.614
That was short.

00:55:42.634 --> 00:55:43.454
It's like eight hours or

00:55:43.494 --> 00:55:44.295
twelve hours or something.

00:55:45.034 --> 00:55:45.894
And then you produce blocks

00:55:45.914 --> 00:55:46.956
for that eight hours and then and then

00:55:47.489 --> 00:55:48.789
It would basically take ten

00:55:48.929 --> 00:55:49.849
or twenty five percent,

00:55:49.889 --> 00:55:50.610
kick them out and would

00:55:50.670 --> 00:55:51.371
randomly pick another

00:55:51.411 --> 00:55:52.150
twenty five percent.

00:55:52.530 --> 00:55:53.271
So you could stay in there

00:55:53.431 --> 00:55:54.452
one time and get kicked out

00:55:54.492 --> 00:55:55.271
or you could stay in there

00:55:55.311 --> 00:55:56.972
for a month if you were

00:55:57.012 --> 00:55:57.813
lucky enough to get not

00:55:57.853 --> 00:55:59.193
kicked out of that twenty five percent.

00:55:59.574 --> 00:56:00.875
And then that that consent,

00:56:00.934 --> 00:56:02.695
that quorum just basically continued.

00:56:02.835 --> 00:56:02.996
Right.

00:56:03.016 --> 00:56:03.835
And you got elected in.

00:56:03.876 --> 00:56:05.336
If you're a poor performer, you got booted,

00:56:05.976 --> 00:56:06.677
all that kind of stuff,

00:56:06.697 --> 00:56:07.478
which is actually it's a

00:56:07.498 --> 00:56:08.438
pretty cool model, actually.

00:56:08.458 --> 00:56:10.398
Yeah, I mean, it was very fair.

00:56:10.699 --> 00:56:11.840
That was a totally fair

00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:13.780
model in terms of if you if you earned

00:56:15.041 --> 00:56:15.942
uh commissions or if you

00:56:15.961 --> 00:56:17.001
know if you were in that in

00:56:17.041 --> 00:56:18.063
that consortium or not that

00:56:18.083 --> 00:56:18.784
was actually pretty cool

00:56:19.304 --> 00:56:20.885
yeah I mean for me uh it's

00:56:20.925 --> 00:56:22.846
similar what I'm getting

00:56:22.885 --> 00:56:24.226
though is there's nothing

00:56:24.266 --> 00:56:25.007
stopping you running

00:56:25.047 --> 00:56:26.407
multiple nodes like any

00:56:26.449 --> 00:56:29.550
other network and just for

00:56:29.570 --> 00:56:30.650
cost savings you have to

00:56:30.670 --> 00:56:33.413
sometimes but the churn in

00:56:33.452 --> 00:56:34.634
and out can be bumpy

00:56:35.318 --> 00:56:36.338
Yeah.

00:56:36.418 --> 00:56:38.380
So because they have to all

00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:39.880
sign that key or sign the

00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:41.900
new vault and they've got timeouts,

00:56:42.201 --> 00:56:43.221
if one of the existing

00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:44.322
people who wasn't going to

00:56:44.342 --> 00:56:47.003
get churned out misses a

00:56:47.063 --> 00:56:48.422
signature or has something bad,

00:56:49.402 --> 00:56:49.983
then you have to wait

00:56:50.003 --> 00:56:52.864
another hour to try again.

00:56:52.903 --> 00:56:54.324
So, for example, the last one,

00:56:54.664 --> 00:56:55.605
it's gotten way better,

00:56:55.625 --> 00:56:56.885
but the last churn,

00:56:57.465 --> 00:56:58.585
I think it started at eleven p.m.

00:56:58.706 --> 00:56:59.786
and I woke up at seven a.m.

00:56:59.826 --> 00:57:00.706
and it was just finishing.

00:57:00.726 --> 00:57:02.786
Yeah, it's crazy.

00:57:02.806 --> 00:57:03.067
Yeah.

00:57:03.106 --> 00:57:04.447
But it came in and you still

00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:06.760
This has got nothing to do

00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:07.141
with the actual

00:57:07.181 --> 00:57:08.902
functionality that the chain provides.

00:57:09.003 --> 00:57:10.242
It's still basically doing

00:57:10.282 --> 00:57:11.583
trades and all that stuff.

00:57:12.284 --> 00:57:14.065
It's more just the nodes

00:57:14.085 --> 00:57:15.666
themselves have just taken

00:57:15.708 --> 00:57:16.668
a long time to agree.

00:57:17.708 --> 00:57:18.670
That's irritating.

00:57:20.050 --> 00:57:21.472
And also, if you're trying to join in,

00:57:21.952 --> 00:57:22.713
there's a slashing.

00:57:23.353 --> 00:57:25.954
So if you miss a signature,

00:57:25.994 --> 00:57:26.536
you get slashed,

00:57:26.635 --> 00:57:28.157
which if you're in the active set,

00:57:28.317 --> 00:57:29.297
doesn't cost you anything.

00:57:29.617 --> 00:57:31.159
But if you're not and you're

00:57:31.179 --> 00:57:31.739
trying to join,

00:57:31.759 --> 00:57:33.641
you actually get some of

00:57:33.661 --> 00:57:34.702
your bond is taken away.

00:57:35.498 --> 00:57:37.478
So if you screw up your configuration,

00:57:37.518 --> 00:57:38.300
trying to get in, you,

00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:39.260
it will cost you money.

00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:41.442
Yeah.

00:57:41.481 --> 00:57:41.681
Yeah.

00:57:41.722 --> 00:57:42.061
That's cool.

00:57:42.181 --> 00:57:43.043
I like, I like, I mean,

00:57:43.503 --> 00:57:44.344
I'm not saying that's perfect,

00:57:44.384 --> 00:57:45.443
but I do like the idea of

00:57:45.503 --> 00:57:46.525
like having some different

00:57:46.605 --> 00:57:49.686
consensus engines that, that provide, uh,

00:57:49.766 --> 00:57:49.987
you know,

00:57:50.007 --> 00:57:51.288
kind of bespoke functionality that,

00:57:51.387 --> 00:57:52.489
that meets the need of that chain.

00:57:52.889 --> 00:57:55.030
Um, cuz proof of stake, you know, we're,

00:57:55.130 --> 00:57:55.771
we're huge fans,

00:57:56.070 --> 00:57:57.130
huge proof of stake in this group,

00:57:57.512 --> 00:57:58.172
especially, I mean,

00:57:58.192 --> 00:57:58.992
distributed proof of stake

00:57:59.012 --> 00:58:01.114
is like really the end all be all.

00:58:03.972 --> 00:58:04.972
And they have very different

00:58:05.012 --> 00:58:06.893
opinions to how governance works as well.

00:58:07.994 --> 00:58:08.875
So you haven't got these

00:58:09.556 --> 00:58:10.836
components where you have like,

00:58:10.876 --> 00:58:11.976
fifteen percent of the

00:58:12.538 --> 00:58:14.858
staking power who controls the stuff.

00:58:14.918 --> 00:58:16.659
Every node is one node, one vote.

00:58:17.681 --> 00:58:18.681
But they have limits to how

00:58:18.722 --> 00:58:19.581
much bond you can actually

00:58:19.601 --> 00:58:20.503
have on a node as well.

00:58:20.922 --> 00:58:21.182
Sure.

00:58:21.222 --> 00:58:22.784
Yeah.

00:58:25.106 --> 00:58:25.666
It's interesting.

00:58:26.206 --> 00:58:29.088
Like for the governance, is it one node,

00:58:29.188 --> 00:58:29.548
one vote?

00:58:30.068 --> 00:58:30.309
Yes.

00:58:31.510 --> 00:58:31.590
Okay.

00:58:33.206 --> 00:58:33.585
That's good.

00:58:36.969 --> 00:58:38.590
It's been interesting seeing

00:58:38.731 --> 00:58:40.351
evolving of governance and

00:58:40.413 --> 00:58:43.335
different models for staking recently.

00:58:44.315 --> 00:58:48.559
And that one node, one vote, I think is a

00:58:50.103 --> 00:58:51.523
I think that's a good thing

00:58:51.543 --> 00:58:55.346
for a chain rather than the vote weighted,

00:58:56.987 --> 00:58:58.527
staking voted weight is

00:58:58.547 --> 00:58:59.248
what I'm trying to say.

00:59:00.748 --> 00:59:01.108
Yeah.

00:59:01.168 --> 00:59:01.409
I mean,

00:59:01.748 --> 00:59:04.170
if you really want your group to

00:59:04.210 --> 00:59:04.751
have a say,

00:59:04.990 --> 00:59:05.871
there's always these

00:59:06.030 --> 00:59:07.351
outweighed nodes which sort

00:59:07.411 --> 00:59:10.514
of control most of everything.

00:59:10.954 --> 00:59:11.255
Yeah.

00:59:11.655 --> 00:59:13.898
And it's also what the node actually,

00:59:14.378 --> 00:59:16.041
what type of things you can vote on.

00:59:16.382 --> 00:59:17.503
So most of the things you

00:59:17.543 --> 00:59:19.266
vote on as a node are

00:59:19.306 --> 00:59:20.367
operational in nature.

00:59:20.487 --> 00:59:22.530
It's not about grants or you don't,

00:59:22.550 --> 00:59:23.612
there's no treasury that

00:59:23.632 --> 00:59:26.976
you have the semblance of control over.

00:59:27.177 --> 00:59:27.297
Yeah.

00:59:29.659 --> 00:59:30.820
um well man it's been

00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:31.860
interesting having you on

00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:33.581
uh and thanks for coming

00:59:33.601 --> 00:59:38.625
and joining us um we uh

00:59:38.644 --> 00:59:39.764
have never done an outro

00:59:39.784 --> 00:59:41.045
before so I'm not even sure

00:59:41.085 --> 00:59:43.887
how to do it okay I'll just

00:59:43.947 --> 00:59:45.007
leave then all right