WEBVTT

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The only time it would be

00:00:01.409 --> 00:00:03.970
used is if one of us was already up.

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In lieu of holding him in

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the middle of the night,

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I would try and put him in the bassinet.

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Because otherwise,

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he's not going to the bassinet.

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Because he refuses.

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Welcome to...

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Game of Nodes,

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the weekly podcast reviewing

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bassinets for tired dads.

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Just whatever works is really what it is.

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I was searching, like,

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the intro I think is

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exactly thirteen seconds, right?

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And I was just, I was like...

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what rhymes with nodes and

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is a pun on baby sleeping

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arrangements I'll tell you

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what that is the shortest

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thirteen seconds I've ever

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experienced in my life I

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was like I was like come on

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you're supposed to be good

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with words just absolutely nothing

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um like you know I tried to

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do one of those like I

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think about maybe about a

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year ago I I I opened with

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a very convincing thing on

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that we were a historical

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war gaming podcast and then

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I got youtube recommended

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an actual podcast with the

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name that I had made up on

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the spot in the flow and I

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was like that's actually a

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popular I think it's like a

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world war ii or historicals one

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I didn't watch it because

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I'm not into that, but I was like,

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I was like, ah, I can do names.

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It's just not, well, even under pressure,

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but this time, how are we doing lads?

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Fantastically.

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One of us was complaining

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about prices just a few minutes ago.

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Cause yeah.

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Things have gone down over

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the last half hour.

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Oh, it's a fucking bloodbath out there.

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What the fuck?

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Because I moved some tokens to Kraken,

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which therefore means that

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everything takes a fucking

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shit for the next three days.

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Are you fucking kidding me?

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You have to do that now?

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Everything just shit the bed.

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Oh, man.

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The stonks and bones market

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is fucking bleeding.

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Yeah.

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yeah it's uh it tends to

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happen at christmas time

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like just before the

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christmas break it does

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like takes a giant dump

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yeah everyone fucking

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rebalancing their positions

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before they fucking go and

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have a happy time they just

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cry for a few days and then

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like yeah time for the

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beach this is a badass

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looking bassinet I gotta

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say I haven't looked since

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the end of the working day

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here but it looks like yeah

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we're wrecked I think we're

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we're back to mcdonald's lads i

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no no it's still I mean

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everything is still pretty

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no pretty reasonable it's

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pretty most part pretty

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reasonable it's been it's

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been it's been far worse um

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cosmos backed under eight

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bucks aptos at twelve chain

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link at twenty five and a

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half which is like still

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doing really well it's crazy

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DYDX was actually over two

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bucks for a bit there,

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but now it's back down to

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one seventy five.

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That's always a good.

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That's always DYDX.

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DYDX is actually a pretty decent.

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Tracks the market pretty well, actually.

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In the chat.

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Rama, all your alts are fucked.

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All your alts are fucked.

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BTC is still six figures.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it is.

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Yeah.

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This is very on brand for me

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as well to rock up and then

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be told I'm wrecked and be like, oh.

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Am I?

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Oh, yeah,

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I guess I am because I haven't

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checked this shit in like two hours.

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You're only paper wrecked.

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paper doesn't matter but

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it's like the juno thing

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when juno bounced and I

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found out that we were

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paper we were paper lambo

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again oh yeah and then and

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then it turned out that you

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know because of unstaking

00:04:01.786 --> 00:04:03.665
periods there was no way we

00:04:03.686 --> 00:04:05.746
could do anything about any

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of the actual tokens so it

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was like oh that's cool for

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everybody else um

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No, we made a couple.

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We had some.

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We hadn't claimed rewards in over a year,

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so that turned out to be a

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sensible thing to do.

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Jack, is my audio okay?

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Is it up higher?

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You're a little bit quiet

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compared to usual.

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What's going on?

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We jack it up.

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How about now?

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Yeah, sounds crisp now.

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Nice.

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Yeah, so what's going on?

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we need to decide on, um, some, uh,

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categories for the game of nodes,

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end of year award show, which, um,

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so this is,

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this is the Christmas episode to,

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to regular viewers and listeners.

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Um,

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we're game of nose inconveniently falls

00:04:58.850 --> 00:05:02.312
on Christmas day and on new year's Eve,

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depending on your time zone, I believe.

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Um,

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Yeah.

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So we're going to take an

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unprecedented two weeks off.

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It's amazing.

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We held on through the bear

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without taking two weeks off.

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So this is a sign that we're back, baby.

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It has to be.

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We're just chill enough to

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take two weeks off.

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Do you know what it actually is a sign of?

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It's actually a sign of it's

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still two months before

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conference season.

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All the autumn launches have happened.

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And there is like,

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other than looking at the candles,

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which is literally what

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your server is doing right now,

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there will be done for about, what are we,

00:05:47.247 --> 00:05:48.348
eight weeks out from the

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first big conference in the spring?

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I don't even know.

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What's first?

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Oh, yeah, that's in March, right?

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That's like first week of March,

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somewhere in there.

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Yeah, February is a short month though,

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isn't it?

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yeah yeah it's probably

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you're right it's probably

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ten weeks from now which is

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crazy so like that's like

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the first if anything that

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wasn't already announced

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will be announced then and

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then we then we know

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whether we're getting

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wrecked next year or not or

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whether we're getting rich

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there's nothing between the

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two obviously I think it's

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always right either so it's

00:06:25.762 --> 00:06:26.942
wrecked or rich the new

00:06:26.963 --> 00:06:28.442
game show for game of notes

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I'm actually, I mean, to be honest,

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I'm pretty,

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I'm pretty interested to see

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what happens with crypto

00:06:36.762 --> 00:06:37.543
over the next two years.

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I think it's going to be a

00:06:38.363 --> 00:06:39.543
pretty interesting couple of years,

00:06:39.884 --> 00:06:41.406
more so than the last two or three,

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just in terms of stupid

00:06:43.947 --> 00:06:44.947
regulation changes here in

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the U S that drive either,

00:06:48.209 --> 00:06:49.610
either positive or negative,

00:06:49.870 --> 00:06:50.350
which is good.

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Cause we always said like in, in,

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uncertainty is worse than

00:06:54.322 --> 00:06:55.322
any sort of certainty.

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So,

00:06:55.862 --> 00:06:57.302
so having some certainty on some things

00:06:57.362 --> 00:06:58.524
I think would, would go a long way.

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I do think that like even

00:07:01.545 --> 00:07:04.747
BTC usage in state use here

00:07:04.807 --> 00:07:05.668
and other types of things,

00:07:05.708 --> 00:07:07.728
maybe in federal will drive

00:07:07.788 --> 00:07:08.949
some other types of like,

00:07:09.189 --> 00:07:10.410
we'll drive some change and

00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:12.331
we'll might see some faster use cases.

00:07:12.370 --> 00:07:13.831
So I'm actually a bit

00:07:13.951 --> 00:07:15.572
excited to see at least,

00:07:15.653 --> 00:07:17.093
at least there's going to be some,

00:07:17.314 --> 00:07:17.874
at least I think there'll

00:07:17.894 --> 00:07:19.274
be some short-term decisions that happen.

00:07:19.735 --> 00:07:21.216
Now we'll see if that is a,

00:07:22.774 --> 00:07:23.894
if those decisions over the

00:07:23.954 --> 00:07:25.315
long term actually are

00:07:25.415 --> 00:07:26.295
positive or negative,

00:07:26.336 --> 00:07:27.617
but at least we'll see something happen.

00:07:29.656 --> 00:07:29.937
Yeah,

00:07:29.976 --> 00:07:30.997
my guess is that we're going to be

00:07:31.218 --> 00:07:32.517
absolutely wiped out

00:07:34.478 --> 00:07:35.639
because fiscal drag is, what,

00:07:35.718 --> 00:07:37.079
eight months?

00:07:37.298 --> 00:07:41.519
So if your man goes and does

00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:43.600
all the protectionism that he's promised,

00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:47.442
we're going to be looking at, I guess,

00:07:47.502 --> 00:07:48.622
policies coming to force

00:07:48.682 --> 00:07:49.783
probably in the summer.

00:07:50.850 --> 00:07:52.372
That takes us to six months.

00:07:52.411 --> 00:07:55.615
So about this time, two years time,

00:07:56.096 --> 00:07:57.076
we're going to be fully

00:07:57.117 --> 00:07:59.538
wrecked because inflation

00:07:59.559 --> 00:08:00.920
will have kicked in.

00:08:01.459 --> 00:08:03.721
We're already at like real

00:08:03.781 --> 00:08:05.303
felt inflation of like, what,

00:08:05.324 --> 00:08:06.305
eight percent or something,

00:08:06.345 --> 00:08:07.565
depending on the measure you use.

00:08:08.387 --> 00:08:09.827
So like there ain't going to

00:08:09.848 --> 00:08:11.228
be a lot of it's not going

00:08:11.249 --> 00:08:12.189
to be like spuds,

00:08:12.589 --> 00:08:14.031
spuds in the shopping basket,

00:08:14.971 --> 00:08:16.694
four pack of Budweiser light.

00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:20.502
Bitcoin in two years' time?

00:08:20.701 --> 00:08:22.382
Nah, Bitcoin.

00:08:22.442 --> 00:08:23.002
I don't know what

00:08:23.043 --> 00:08:24.264
Americans... You can tell

00:08:24.324 --> 00:08:27.206
that I have absolutely no

00:08:27.305 --> 00:08:28.607
idea of what an American

00:08:28.627 --> 00:08:29.367
would put in their shopping

00:08:29.408 --> 00:08:30.567
basket despite having

00:08:30.608 --> 00:08:32.068
visited America over ten

00:08:32.129 --> 00:08:33.750
times by the fact that my

00:08:33.850 --> 00:08:34.691
idea of an American

00:08:34.730 --> 00:08:36.572
shopping basket is one potato,

00:08:37.653 --> 00:08:38.494
four Bud Light,

00:08:42.607 --> 00:08:43.268
and that's it ammo it's like

00:08:43.427 --> 00:08:46.308
uh ammunition tomahawk

00:08:46.349 --> 00:08:48.190
steak some sort of

00:08:48.289 --> 00:08:49.850
processed potato that you

00:08:49.870 --> 00:08:53.010
can deep fry yeah to be

00:08:53.071 --> 00:08:53.811
that actually no you're

00:08:53.850 --> 00:08:55.351
right potato chips if I

00:08:55.432 --> 00:08:57.153
chip that potato chips

00:08:57.212 --> 00:08:58.293
ain't no one in the states

00:08:58.332 --> 00:08:59.952
buying a fucking actual potato

00:09:02.697 --> 00:09:04.258
Or like the pre-made mashed

00:09:04.278 --> 00:09:05.498
potatoes where you just add

00:09:05.518 --> 00:09:07.479
warm water and let it slide

00:09:07.558 --> 00:09:08.600
out of the plastic bag.

00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:11.980
No one's doing that, man.

00:09:12.081 --> 00:09:14.121
If anyone's getting pre-made taters,

00:09:14.201 --> 00:09:16.783
it's coming through Uber Eats.

00:09:21.884 --> 00:09:25.785
but yeah uh yeah even the

00:09:25.826 --> 00:09:27.466
stonks market hosed the

00:09:27.506 --> 00:09:29.908
fucking uh my my american

00:09:29.947 --> 00:09:31.808
holdings overnight smashed

00:09:32.548 --> 00:09:34.230
amazon down four percent

00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:36.410
yeah amazon four percent

00:09:36.471 --> 00:09:39.591
totaled yeah uh so I'm

00:09:39.652 --> 00:09:41.133
expecting it on the on the

00:09:41.253 --> 00:09:42.212
open today from the

00:09:42.253 --> 00:09:43.474
australian stock exchange

00:09:43.514 --> 00:09:44.333
it's also going to get

00:09:44.374 --> 00:09:46.875
fucking wrecked and but you

00:09:46.894 --> 00:09:48.275
know everything's temporary

00:09:50.662 --> 00:09:51.962
just everything temporary

00:09:52.783 --> 00:09:53.683
what why is a little as

00:09:53.724 --> 00:09:55.924
they say why is amazon down

00:09:56.024 --> 00:09:57.426
I heard actually shopping

00:09:57.446 --> 00:09:58.265
was pretty good

00:09:58.785 --> 00:10:00.746
everything's down man the

00:10:00.966 --> 00:10:02.368
whole stonk market's fucked

00:10:04.129 --> 00:10:04.948
everything's down four

00:10:05.528 --> 00:10:06.649
percent well at least

00:10:06.669 --> 00:10:10.851
everybody's having the same

00:10:10.892 --> 00:10:11.652
problem we are right

00:10:13.211 --> 00:10:14.351
Everything down four percent is one thing,

00:10:14.392 --> 00:10:17.513
but it's always interesting to see.

00:10:17.653 --> 00:10:19.033
Everything down four percent is one thing,

00:10:19.073 --> 00:10:23.836
but what about my chain link?

00:10:23.937 --> 00:10:26.317
What do you think of my token?

00:10:26.437 --> 00:10:27.238
What about my chain link?

00:10:27.258 --> 00:10:28.719
What about my shit coin?

00:10:28.739 --> 00:10:30.259
Like, oh, what's that?

00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:30.720
What's that?

00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:31.240
Oh, fuck.

00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:33.662
What's the movie that he's

00:10:33.701 --> 00:10:34.761
obsessed with in Red Dwarf,

00:10:34.802 --> 00:10:37.703
the old American movie?

00:10:38.524 --> 00:10:39.504
It's a Wonderful Life?

00:10:39.865 --> 00:10:40.085
Oh, yeah.

00:10:41.333 --> 00:10:44.796
Like, okay, it's a wonderful life,

00:10:45.037 --> 00:10:47.278
but wrecked by crypto.

00:10:47.457 --> 00:10:47.918
There you go.

00:10:48.678 --> 00:10:49.559
That's my movie pitch.

00:10:51.379 --> 00:10:52.279
But then how would it end?

00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:53.140
What would be the end?

00:10:53.181 --> 00:10:54.100
Because the ending scene,

00:10:54.581 --> 00:10:56.101
the ending scene in the original, right?

00:10:56.142 --> 00:10:57.342
That's the one where it ends

00:10:57.363 --> 00:10:58.062
with like the debt.

00:10:58.283 --> 00:10:58.482
Sorry,

00:10:58.503 --> 00:11:00.403
spoiler alert for a film that's like

00:11:00.864 --> 00:11:01.965
eighty thousand years old.

00:11:02.764 --> 00:11:03.446
That's the one where it ends

00:11:03.466 --> 00:11:04.826
with like the debt forgiveness thing.

00:11:04.846 --> 00:11:06.486
It's like and it's like this

00:11:06.506 --> 00:11:07.447
big cathartic moment.

00:11:08.128 --> 00:11:11.208
What happens in the crypt?

00:11:11.229 --> 00:11:12.649
They're just like, no, you are wrecked.

00:11:12.769 --> 00:11:13.450
It's on the ledger.

00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:14.331
It's on the ledger forever.

00:11:14.370 --> 00:11:15.530
You're wrecked.

00:11:15.610 --> 00:11:16.431
It's a poor house.

00:11:16.792 --> 00:11:17.652
It's like the shit coins of

00:11:17.692 --> 00:11:18.351
Christmas past.

00:11:18.371 --> 00:11:19.092
Like you just see

00:11:23.375 --> 00:11:24.316
you get to see your life if

00:11:24.336 --> 00:11:25.236
you sold your shit coins

00:11:25.677 --> 00:11:26.557
two years ago and then you

00:11:26.577 --> 00:11:27.418
get to see your life if you

00:11:27.818 --> 00:11:28.679
waited two years and then

00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.301
sold them that'd be awesome

00:11:30.321 --> 00:11:31.121
can we put that on the end

00:11:31.142 --> 00:11:32.923
of the year show when we do

00:11:33.043 --> 00:11:34.845
our best the best shit coin

00:11:34.865 --> 00:11:36.645
of christmas past oh yeah

00:11:36.666 --> 00:11:39.008
look at my amazon I would

00:11:39.107 --> 00:11:40.788
only watch it if the

00:11:40.849 --> 00:11:41.950
muppets are playing in it

00:11:42.029 --> 00:11:42.971
otherwise I'm out

00:11:45.116 --> 00:11:46.236
Wait, it's a wonderful,

00:11:46.297 --> 00:11:48.738
wonderful life or the shit

00:11:49.458 --> 00:11:50.658
coin of Christmas past?

00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:51.859
Either or.

00:11:52.219 --> 00:11:56.061
If I were a benevolent dictator for life,

00:11:56.961 --> 00:11:58.802
I would demand more Muppet movies.

00:11:58.902 --> 00:12:00.221
I don't care what movie the movie is,

00:12:00.922 --> 00:12:04.744
but it will have Muppets.

00:12:04.764 --> 00:12:06.423
Have you seen whichever one

00:12:06.464 --> 00:12:07.625
it is that has the Kermit

00:12:07.684 --> 00:12:08.404
did nine eleven?

00:12:08.424 --> 00:12:08.465
No.

00:12:08.485 --> 00:12:12.285
Yeah, I thought you did.

00:12:12.346 --> 00:12:12.625
Yeah.

00:12:16.562 --> 00:12:18.522
so did you guys see uh I

00:12:18.581 --> 00:12:20.702
believe I got from my

00:12:20.842 --> 00:12:22.962
primary news source x

00:12:23.702 --> 00:12:26.624
application um the

00:12:27.244 --> 00:12:28.764
crypto.com have dropped

00:12:28.803 --> 00:12:30.283
their lawsuit against the

00:12:30.663 --> 00:12:32.284
sec after having a little

00:12:32.945 --> 00:12:34.965
lunchy lunch with the big

00:12:35.004 --> 00:12:40.066
guy no oh well that's a

00:12:40.125 --> 00:12:42.025
thing apparently I read it

00:12:42.066 --> 00:12:43.226
on x so it's probably true

00:12:43.246 --> 00:12:45.206
it's probably it's good

00:12:46.914 --> 00:12:47.836
Um, so I mean, that's,

00:12:47.995 --> 00:12:49.076
that's a good signal, right?

00:12:49.297 --> 00:12:50.336
If, uh,

00:12:50.397 --> 00:12:51.717
obviously they've had a favorable

00:12:51.778 --> 00:12:54.019
conversation and I said, don't worry,

00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:56.341
buddy, we'll line your pockets again.

00:12:57.341 --> 00:12:59.222
Uh, happy days.

00:12:59.442 --> 00:13:02.705
It's weird that that would come now.

00:13:02.725 --> 00:13:05.447
Well, he's just become the president elect,

00:13:05.466 --> 00:13:05.767
right?

00:13:05.787 --> 00:13:06.687
So now he's got to go and

00:13:06.727 --> 00:13:08.609
make all his little promises,

00:13:08.668 --> 00:13:09.428
hustle deals.

00:13:09.489 --> 00:13:10.590
He's got to go and come good

00:13:10.629 --> 00:13:14.351
on all these promises before people, uh,

00:13:14.451 --> 00:13:15.173
get upset.

00:13:17.184 --> 00:13:18.684
Yep.

00:13:18.784 --> 00:13:20.686
So how's everybody's

00:13:20.765 --> 00:13:23.245
preparation going for the holidays?

00:13:23.306 --> 00:13:26.047
You out there pruning all your nodes,

00:13:26.846 --> 00:13:29.908
getting all your monitoring

00:13:29.947 --> 00:13:32.048
alerts knocked down a bit?

00:13:35.428 --> 00:13:38.750
Really reconsidering what's important?

00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:41.110
Raising all my percentages?

00:13:41.850 --> 00:13:42.309
Yeah.

00:13:42.370 --> 00:13:43.650
Notify me I had a two percent miss?

00:13:43.811 --> 00:13:44.951
No, let's make it five percent.

00:13:45.581 --> 00:13:46.402
I don't want to know unless

00:13:46.422 --> 00:13:47.663
the hard drive is a hundred

00:13:47.702 --> 00:13:48.602
and ten percent full.

00:13:50.423 --> 00:13:52.043
Putting some, putting some chains into a,

00:13:52.224 --> 00:13:53.163
putting some mainnet chains

00:13:53.183 --> 00:13:54.244
into the testnet file.

00:13:57.024 --> 00:13:57.424
You know,

00:13:57.764 --> 00:13:58.945
it seems like there's a few

00:13:59.024 --> 00:14:00.546
chains that are like just

00:14:01.546 --> 00:14:03.105
getting very close to

00:14:03.225 --> 00:14:05.027
launching like right before Christmas.

00:14:05.067 --> 00:14:07.106
Hopefully they go after Christmas.

00:14:07.126 --> 00:14:09.307
That'd be a little bit like

00:14:09.408 --> 00:14:10.128
after the holidays,

00:14:10.148 --> 00:14:11.148
it'd just be a little bit better.

00:14:12.798 --> 00:14:14.379
I don't know.

00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:15.400
I mean, I would, yeah.

00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:15.660
I mean,

00:14:15.681 --> 00:14:16.422
this is not the right time to

00:14:16.461 --> 00:14:16.902
launch anything.

00:14:16.922 --> 00:14:17.101
Right.

00:14:17.121 --> 00:14:18.062
So you, you really want,

00:14:18.842 --> 00:14:19.783
you want better visibility

00:14:19.803 --> 00:14:20.625
and not competing against

00:14:20.904 --> 00:14:21.605
other types of things.

00:14:21.625 --> 00:14:22.546
So I would think most of

00:14:22.566 --> 00:14:23.466
these teams are gonna wait

00:14:23.486 --> 00:14:25.148
until middle of Q one, not January.

00:14:25.168 --> 00:14:26.048
January is always a mess too.

00:14:26.087 --> 00:14:27.349
Nobody pays any attention to January.

00:14:27.369 --> 00:14:29.211
A hundred percent.

00:14:31.131 --> 00:14:31.893
Holy shit.

00:14:32.253 --> 00:14:34.413
That post post hangover.

00:14:35.154 --> 00:14:35.554
Yeah.

00:14:36.355 --> 00:14:36.556
Yeah.

00:14:36.596 --> 00:14:38.076
Like late January's nice.

00:14:38.894 --> 00:14:39.455
Yeah.

00:14:39.475 --> 00:14:40.355
Like even when we went,

00:14:40.634 --> 00:14:41.416
was in the enterprise space,

00:14:41.436 --> 00:14:42.356
like nobody did shit.

00:14:43.197 --> 00:14:44.118
Forty-five days, man.

00:14:44.438 --> 00:14:45.779
Like starting after

00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:47.740
Thanksgiving to at least February,

00:14:47.841 --> 00:14:48.942
it was dead.

00:14:49.503 --> 00:14:50.023
Nobody did anything.

00:14:50.123 --> 00:14:50.943
And I think this,

00:14:51.244 --> 00:14:52.585
this market is no different than that.

00:14:52.605 --> 00:14:52.705
Like,

00:14:52.825 --> 00:14:55.086
I think at least like to get some

00:14:55.126 --> 00:14:56.248
visibility to things and

00:14:56.327 --> 00:14:57.168
try to get people's time

00:14:57.188 --> 00:14:59.049
and attention is a little bit tough, but.

00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:02.773
I'm uh, yeah.

00:15:03.234 --> 00:15:04.394
Holding onto my letters that

00:15:04.434 --> 00:15:05.394
I have to send to people

00:15:05.495 --> 00:15:08.457
till like tomorrow afternoon.

00:15:11.515 --> 00:15:11.916
What do you mean?

00:15:11.936 --> 00:15:13.836
You know, any, any, uh, you know,

00:15:14.076 --> 00:15:15.057
letters that I need to send

00:15:15.096 --> 00:15:16.517
to people that need a response.

00:15:16.756 --> 00:15:21.518
Oh, waiting till like, just emails.

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:24.859
They're called emails, not letters.

00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:26.700
Send them on Friday afternoon.

00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:30.059
So you don't get a response.

00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.280
Like typing one finger at a time.

00:15:32.660 --> 00:15:33.380
Grandpa now.

00:15:36.458 --> 00:15:39.100
No, man, I write letters with, you know,

00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:40.201
stationery and shit.

00:15:40.921 --> 00:15:42.081
This is fucking no surprise.

00:15:42.101 --> 00:15:43.663
You call people on the phone,

00:15:43.682 --> 00:15:44.663
you write letters,

00:15:44.703 --> 00:15:45.964
you're just fucking trapped

00:15:46.004 --> 00:15:46.965
in the old times.

00:15:47.225 --> 00:15:48.166
Dear blockchain.

00:15:48.885 --> 00:15:49.966
Dear blockchain.

00:15:49.986 --> 00:15:51.827
Dear blockchain owner.

00:15:53.188 --> 00:15:56.389
Please consider not slashing

00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.751
me over the holidays.

00:16:00.913 --> 00:16:03.076
please my validator address

00:16:03.096 --> 00:16:06.379
please take a note it's a

00:16:06.839 --> 00:16:09.981
nine capital h lowercase h

00:16:10.682 --> 00:16:13.306
b that would be dull on the

00:16:13.346 --> 00:16:14.427
phone you know like this

00:16:14.807 --> 00:16:15.347
you know there's like

00:16:15.427 --> 00:16:17.389
youtube videos of somebody

00:16:17.529 --> 00:16:18.791
where a scammer calls them

00:16:18.910 --> 00:16:19.991
up or they pretend to be

00:16:20.032 --> 00:16:21.494
like infirm and then just

00:16:21.514 --> 00:16:22.875
like waste the scammers time

00:16:23.215 --> 00:16:24.054
right that'll be like no

00:16:24.075 --> 00:16:25.696
he'd be like I love those

00:16:25.716 --> 00:16:26.796
guys you're like sir my my

00:16:27.096 --> 00:16:28.797
my vowel comms address is

00:16:28.897 --> 00:16:31.378
let me that is nine zero no

00:16:31.457 --> 00:16:37.500
comms nine lowercase x six

00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:39.801
oh man I'm not the oldest

00:16:39.841 --> 00:16:43.861
man in the room age is just

00:16:43.942 --> 00:16:45.403
a number baby it's just a

00:16:45.462 --> 00:16:47.083
number baby if you're

00:16:47.124 --> 00:16:48.024
sending letters though

00:16:49.701 --> 00:16:51.923
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's just,

00:16:51.942 --> 00:16:53.705
you know, it has more like effect.

00:16:54.166 --> 00:16:54.966
A good old letter.

00:16:55.746 --> 00:16:56.207
Are you actually,

00:16:56.227 --> 00:16:57.109
so you're sending a letter?

00:16:57.129 --> 00:16:57.188
Oh,

00:16:57.208 --> 00:16:58.750
this is like other jobby jobs types of

00:16:58.769 --> 00:16:58.890
stuff.

00:16:58.910 --> 00:16:59.571
You're sending letters?

00:16:59.912 --> 00:17:01.312
I'm emailing a letter, man.

00:17:01.552 --> 00:17:02.514
You're emailing a letter?

00:17:02.693 --> 00:17:04.236
You're licking envelopes and shit?

00:17:04.817 --> 00:17:06.278
Nah, man, I've seen Seinfeld.

00:17:06.337 --> 00:17:06.878
I don't want to die.

00:17:11.811 --> 00:17:12.211
But, you know,

00:17:12.231 --> 00:17:14.752
it's just a matter of more

00:17:14.772 --> 00:17:15.393
into my meaning.

00:17:15.413 --> 00:17:16.693
It's like just getting those

00:17:16.814 --> 00:17:18.114
important things out last

00:17:18.193 --> 00:17:19.213
minute so that you don't

00:17:19.253 --> 00:17:21.055
see your response until mid-January.

00:17:24.175 --> 00:17:24.895
You know you're not going to

00:17:24.915 --> 00:17:25.736
have to worry about it.

00:17:26.016 --> 00:17:26.916
But you did your part.

00:17:27.277 --> 00:17:27.457
I did.

00:17:27.477 --> 00:17:29.257
It's not on me.

00:17:30.017 --> 00:17:30.557
I'm done.

00:17:30.617 --> 00:17:34.519
I've done it.

00:17:34.798 --> 00:17:35.058
Actually,

00:17:35.138 --> 00:17:36.679
Raman here mentions that there's

00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:38.759
a strong USD market

00:17:40.114 --> 00:17:42.415
weirdly but uh it is quite

00:17:42.435 --> 00:17:44.017
it's been going up against

00:17:44.096 --> 00:17:45.356
our currency like all year

00:17:45.877 --> 00:17:48.880
yeah which is good for me I

00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:50.361
guess that's good for you

00:17:51.221 --> 00:17:54.903
yeah all right I need to go

00:17:54.923 --> 00:17:57.464
folks have fun not so great

00:17:57.484 --> 00:17:58.405
when I want to go and buy

00:17:58.465 --> 00:17:59.247
like you know my

00:17:59.287 --> 00:18:00.146
snowboarding shoes or

00:18:00.166 --> 00:18:02.909
something out of the oh out of the us

00:18:03.775 --> 00:18:06.396
Yeah, well, everything comes out of the US,

00:18:06.416 --> 00:18:08.117
so really paying more for

00:18:08.137 --> 00:18:12.441
my Slack subscription, fucking hell.

00:18:12.520 --> 00:18:15.663
Paying more for our, yeah,

00:18:15.763 --> 00:18:17.144
all that miscellaneous

00:18:17.904 --> 00:18:18.965
crappy software that's

00:18:19.006 --> 00:18:19.987
required to run one of

00:18:20.007 --> 00:18:22.387
these here validator businesses.

00:18:22.407 --> 00:18:22.628
These nodes.

00:18:22.648 --> 00:18:22.989
These nodes,

00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:24.670
they're not going to run themselves.

00:18:24.690 --> 00:18:26.070
They're not going to run themselves.

00:18:26.771 --> 00:18:27.051
Nice.

00:18:28.029 --> 00:18:29.070
mean they did kind of run

00:18:29.090 --> 00:18:29.811
themselves when they were

00:18:29.832 --> 00:18:31.272
on kubernetes but you know

00:18:31.313 --> 00:18:32.153
unfortunately that costs

00:18:32.193 --> 00:18:33.434
thousands and thousands per

00:18:33.494 --> 00:18:34.476
month and we're not making

00:18:34.516 --> 00:18:38.160
those well I mean

00:18:38.180 --> 00:18:40.102
irrelevant now cosmos nodes

00:18:40.342 --> 00:18:46.528
off you're out yeah yeah

00:18:46.548 --> 00:18:48.490
they were old yellow went

00:18:48.549 --> 00:18:51.011
out back behind the barn weird

00:18:53.134 --> 00:18:55.056
Weird to think that as a business now,

00:18:55.076 --> 00:18:57.017
we're technically more of

00:18:57.057 --> 00:18:59.938
an ETH-centric business

00:18:59.958 --> 00:19:01.317
than we are a

00:19:01.357 --> 00:19:04.179
Cosmos-centric business by

00:19:04.219 --> 00:19:05.240
Validator's run.

00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:07.140
Oh, by the number.

00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:07.760
Oh, yeah.

00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:11.321
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:11.342 --> 00:19:11.481
How so?

00:19:11.501 --> 00:19:11.662
Well,

00:19:11.682 --> 00:19:13.282
because we're running shit in the ETH

00:19:13.323 --> 00:19:14.002
ecosystem.

00:19:15.022 --> 00:19:16.864
Like Aptos?

00:19:16.903 --> 00:19:18.884
Is Aptos ETH?

00:19:18.904 --> 00:19:19.005
No.

00:19:19.025 --> 00:19:21.465
But we're not running any Cosmos anymore.

00:19:21.605 --> 00:19:22.266
It's all gone.

00:19:24.044 --> 00:19:26.567
right over here what are you

00:19:26.606 --> 00:19:30.970
running in ether um uh dvt

00:19:30.990 --> 00:19:34.712
stuff let's just be ah copy

00:19:34.794 --> 00:19:38.717
yeah yeah big boys with

00:19:38.737 --> 00:19:45.142
their big dvt pants on hey

00:19:45.162 --> 00:19:45.942
they're getting that I know

00:19:46.042 --> 00:19:47.144
you remind me whose node is

00:19:47.163 --> 00:19:49.086
down for like ages like

00:19:49.286 --> 00:19:50.046
making those was that the

00:19:50.066 --> 00:19:51.126
big wolf blockchain node

00:19:53.282 --> 00:19:53.502
Hey, man,

00:19:53.542 --> 00:19:54.864
I'm happy to have built a cluster

00:19:54.884 --> 00:19:59.605
for that Hundo and DVT money a month.

00:19:59.645 --> 00:20:00.685
Wait, you're making a hundred?

00:20:00.746 --> 00:20:02.866
That's wild.

00:20:03.948 --> 00:20:05.028
I have aspirations.

00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.230
We're going to make a Hundo.

00:20:11.270 --> 00:20:11.871
Less tax.

00:20:12.711 --> 00:20:13.311
Yeah, as I say,

00:20:13.471 --> 00:20:14.913
maybe if the market goes up a bit more.

00:20:14.932 --> 00:20:20.095
Oh, well, but yeah.

00:20:20.115 --> 00:20:20.315
Yeah.

00:20:21.795 --> 00:20:22.674
Next year, huh?

00:20:23.195 --> 00:20:24.576
So we're going to do

00:20:26.217 --> 00:20:28.278
categories for the end of year then.

00:20:28.698 --> 00:20:30.018
Yeah.

00:20:30.038 --> 00:20:31.298
I guess it's like the same as last time.

00:20:31.898 --> 00:20:33.439
What did we do last time?

00:20:33.459 --> 00:20:33.859
I don't remember.

00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:34.799
Best chain, worst chain.

00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:36.000
Best chain, worst chain.

00:20:36.019 --> 00:20:39.682
I'm not sure we went worst

00:20:39.721 --> 00:20:41.041
chain because that's a bit negative.

00:20:42.782 --> 00:20:44.544
I think we did best chain, best team,

00:20:45.084 --> 00:20:46.084
best use case.

00:20:46.463 --> 00:20:48.805
Yeah.

00:20:48.825 --> 00:20:49.246
Biggest shit.

00:20:49.266 --> 00:20:50.326
I remember biggest shit poster.

00:20:51.310 --> 00:20:52.231
Biggest shit poster.

00:20:52.811 --> 00:20:55.074
Best shit coin, I think.

00:20:55.153 --> 00:20:56.034
I can't even vote in the

00:20:56.054 --> 00:20:57.154
biggest shit poster because

00:20:57.174 --> 00:21:00.657
I just block any fuckwits I see now.

00:21:00.678 --> 00:21:02.378
Don't go on crypto Twitter

00:21:02.419 --> 00:21:04.680
because it's just fucking idiots.

00:21:05.221 --> 00:21:06.662
We might need help with that

00:21:06.701 --> 00:21:09.344
because I don't even know either.

00:21:09.403 --> 00:21:09.983
Yeah.

00:21:10.624 --> 00:21:12.365
Maybe it's not as bad as what it was.

00:21:12.425 --> 00:21:14.886
I could be wrong, though.

00:21:14.906 --> 00:21:15.127
I think...

00:21:17.087 --> 00:21:19.348
Spending time dicking around, uh,

00:21:21.911 --> 00:21:23.431
spending time dicking around on,

00:21:23.791 --> 00:21:25.192
on crypto Twitter ship

00:21:25.231 --> 00:21:26.853
posting is very much a bull

00:21:26.873 --> 00:21:30.115
market phenomenon that disappeared in,

00:21:30.535 --> 00:21:32.276
it has not reappeared.

00:21:33.057 --> 00:21:33.176
Oh,

00:21:33.196 --> 00:21:34.998
you don't think it exists in the bear

00:21:35.018 --> 00:21:35.337
as well.

00:21:35.597 --> 00:21:38.098
It exists, but yeah, it exists,

00:21:38.118 --> 00:21:42.501
but like the, the level of, I dunno, it,

00:21:42.521 --> 00:21:46.304
it feels more effort to find funny.

00:21:48.297 --> 00:21:50.378
shit like it's just not like

00:21:50.598 --> 00:21:51.840
bear markets nothing's as

00:21:51.941 --> 00:21:54.022
fun man that's the problem

00:21:54.682 --> 00:21:56.325
like if you're like I can

00:21:56.424 --> 00:21:57.526
I've got like I can skive

00:21:57.566 --> 00:21:58.768
off work for five minutes

00:21:58.807 --> 00:22:00.348
and do something what are

00:22:00.368 --> 00:22:01.971
you gonna do go watch some

00:22:02.010 --> 00:22:03.211
dog shit on youtube or are

00:22:03.231 --> 00:22:05.213
you gonna go look on

00:22:05.775 --> 00:22:07.016
depressing bear market

00:22:07.496 --> 00:22:12.181
crypto twitter tough call tough call

00:22:13.390 --> 00:22:15.010
But that's our life.

00:22:15.030 --> 00:22:17.252
That's our reality these last two years.

00:22:17.272 --> 00:22:20.875
That's what we've been living.

00:22:20.914 --> 00:22:21.576
What other categories?

00:22:21.635 --> 00:22:24.337
Is that it?

00:22:24.478 --> 00:22:24.837
What else?

00:22:24.938 --> 00:22:26.239
What else is noteworthy?

00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:29.381
That's enough.

00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:30.942
Yeah, we've got a use case.

00:22:32.002 --> 00:22:33.223
If we can work that one out,

00:22:33.243 --> 00:22:34.625
then we've cracked it, lads.

00:22:35.224 --> 00:22:35.986
Most excited for?

00:22:36.006 --> 00:22:36.645
I don't know.

00:22:36.726 --> 00:22:38.426
Maybe.

00:22:38.467 --> 00:22:39.307
That's not really an award, though.

00:22:40.810 --> 00:22:41.832
yeah we did have we did have

00:22:42.132 --> 00:22:43.152
well we used to have what

00:22:43.192 --> 00:22:45.313
are we excited for it was

00:22:45.353 --> 00:22:46.433
like a rolling thing we

00:22:46.473 --> 00:22:50.915
talked about and then and

00:22:50.955 --> 00:22:52.076
then now it's all become a

00:22:52.115 --> 00:22:55.577
bit like the um oh what's

00:22:55.617 --> 00:22:58.798
the name of the um there's

00:22:58.838 --> 00:22:59.920
a bomb the music industry

00:23:00.019 --> 00:23:02.800
ep called adult adults

00:23:03.182 --> 00:23:06.242
exclamation mark smart exclamation mark

00:23:07.494 --> 00:23:09.115
shit hammered exclamation

00:23:09.155 --> 00:23:11.297
mark and excited by nothing

00:23:12.356 --> 00:23:13.337
I think that's the uh

00:23:14.758 --> 00:23:16.979
that's the state of several

00:23:16.999 --> 00:23:20.040
years of steroid of steroid

00:23:20.181 --> 00:23:24.303
this this is fine um but

00:23:24.403 --> 00:23:25.903
hey that's fine it's cool

00:23:25.923 --> 00:23:26.663
maybe things will roll back

00:23:26.683 --> 00:23:28.503
around again yeah well one

00:23:28.523 --> 00:23:29.424
thing I mean what we really

00:23:29.484 --> 00:23:31.746
what we really needed was um

00:23:34.260 --> 00:23:35.682
We probably needed Trump to

00:23:35.761 --> 00:23:37.982
not win and probably needed

00:23:38.002 --> 00:23:39.483
to just wait till next summer,

00:23:41.125 --> 00:23:42.005
but that's also fine.

00:23:42.325 --> 00:23:42.865
That's fine.

00:23:43.226 --> 00:23:44.086
It's whatever, man,

00:23:44.205 --> 00:23:45.166
it's beyond my control.

00:23:46.567 --> 00:23:48.848
I am a pebble in the stream, whatever,

00:23:48.888 --> 00:23:49.068
man.

00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:54.832
Uh, I am Jack's complete lack of surprise,

00:23:55.492 --> 00:23:58.653
you know, um, this time around.

00:23:59.414 --> 00:24:01.476
Um, yeah.

00:24:03.103 --> 00:24:03.363
I don't know.

00:24:03.403 --> 00:24:04.943
I just thought I was just like, I was like,

00:24:04.983 --> 00:24:06.765
Hey, you know, in a best case scenario,

00:24:06.825 --> 00:24:09.885
maybe like Russian currency

00:24:09.905 --> 00:24:13.747
squeeze and stuff, you know, no,

00:24:13.767 --> 00:24:15.528
maybe nine months by next summer,

00:24:15.548 --> 00:24:16.989
by next campaigning season,

00:24:17.009 --> 00:24:18.589
they might start running out of steam.

00:24:18.630 --> 00:24:20.589
We might get like some kind

00:24:20.630 --> 00:24:22.010
of negotiated settlement.

00:24:22.330 --> 00:24:23.531
Inflation starts coming down.

00:24:23.571 --> 00:24:24.291
That'd be cool.

00:24:24.971 --> 00:24:26.452
Maybe a bit more political stability.

00:24:26.972 --> 00:24:27.893
And it's like, ah, no, no, no.

00:24:27.932 --> 00:24:28.413
We, we just,

00:24:28.594 --> 00:24:29.973
we're just spinning the wacky roulette.

00:24:30.273 --> 00:24:30.513
Cool.

00:24:30.535 --> 00:24:30.714
Cool.

00:24:30.734 --> 00:24:30.914
Cool.

00:24:30.934 --> 00:24:31.015
Yeah.

00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:32.641
Let's go.

00:24:32.661 --> 00:24:35.022
We're just going to smash up inflation.

00:24:35.762 --> 00:24:40.446
We're definitely spending the roulette.

00:24:41.027 --> 00:24:42.167
One thing we didn't talk about last week,

00:24:42.367 --> 00:24:44.549
which we talked about in the...

00:24:45.415 --> 00:24:47.477
in the realm of excited for

00:24:47.678 --> 00:24:48.317
which I can't believe we

00:24:48.337 --> 00:24:49.239
didn't we actually didn't

00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:51.000
speak about is this skip

00:24:51.259 --> 00:24:52.280
found it the skip

00:24:52.361 --> 00:24:53.821
acquisition how do we not

00:24:53.842 --> 00:24:55.383
bring it up oh yeah the uh

00:24:55.403 --> 00:24:56.963
interchange inc did you

00:24:56.983 --> 00:24:57.644
guys not talk about that we

00:24:57.663 --> 00:24:59.685
didn't even I know about

00:25:00.346 --> 00:25:01.027
that I knew about it we

00:25:01.047 --> 00:25:02.407
just kind of I mean it was

00:25:02.448 --> 00:25:03.888
obviously huge news um and

00:25:03.909 --> 00:25:04.509
we just kind of skipped

00:25:04.548 --> 00:25:05.990
over it how do you know

00:25:06.009 --> 00:25:07.990
about that the fray you're

00:25:08.090 --> 00:25:09.132
out you're out of the

00:25:09.251 --> 00:25:10.413
ecosystem and you don't

00:25:10.472 --> 00:25:11.374
even read the twitter's

00:25:13.471 --> 00:25:15.732
Because somebody mentioned it on Signal,

00:25:15.893 --> 00:25:18.674
and so I was like, oh.

00:25:18.714 --> 00:25:19.236
My luck's out.

00:25:19.715 --> 00:25:20.376
He's got happy days.

00:25:20.396 --> 00:25:23.298
He's got an ICF tattoo on his kazoo.

00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:25.421
Yeah,

00:25:25.441 --> 00:25:27.323
our boys Mags and Barry are like big

00:25:27.363 --> 00:25:27.903
time now.

00:25:28.343 --> 00:25:28.963
Yeah, that's good.

00:25:29.561 --> 00:25:31.942
So, so that they're the big dogs.

00:25:32.643 --> 00:25:33.682
So interchain, uh,

00:25:33.722 --> 00:25:35.002
foundation cosmos leading

00:25:35.163 --> 00:25:35.963
development organization

00:25:35.983 --> 00:25:36.644
announced Tuesday that it's

00:25:36.703 --> 00:25:37.463
inquiring blockchain

00:25:37.503 --> 00:25:39.525
solutions provider skip now

00:25:39.565 --> 00:25:41.444
rebranded as interchain Inc.

00:25:42.224 --> 00:25:42.664
Essentially.

00:25:42.684 --> 00:25:43.546
So does that mean they're no

00:25:43.605 --> 00:25:44.586
longer skip at all?

00:25:45.046 --> 00:25:46.445
I think so.

00:25:46.506 --> 00:25:47.906
I think, well, I mean, skip would go,

00:25:48.186 --> 00:25:49.426
I mean, assuming it's an acquisition,

00:25:49.826 --> 00:25:50.567
they can make a decision

00:25:50.587 --> 00:25:51.647
whether or not skip it goes or not.

00:25:51.667 --> 00:25:52.968
But since it said being

00:25:53.028 --> 00:25:54.449
rebranded as interchain Inc,

00:25:54.528 --> 00:25:55.848
my guess is that they are now.

00:25:56.416 --> 00:25:57.738
an operations arm of the

00:25:57.778 --> 00:25:58.598
Interchain Foundation.

00:25:58.638 --> 00:25:59.398
So Interchain Inc.

00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:01.040
and I would assume Skip is gone.

00:26:01.681 --> 00:26:02.842
But why does the Interchain

00:26:02.862 --> 00:26:05.624
Foundation want to acquire Skip?

00:26:07.006 --> 00:26:08.527
Surely the ecosystem is more

00:26:08.567 --> 00:26:12.950
decentralized if Skip is Skip.

00:26:12.970 --> 00:26:13.951
That is a good question.

00:26:14.070 --> 00:26:17.054
I think that might be a mix of both optics,

00:26:17.594 --> 00:26:18.214
branding,

00:26:18.615 --> 00:26:21.696
and I don't think that strategy

00:26:21.837 --> 00:26:22.377
has worked yet.

00:26:23.928 --> 00:26:24.087
Right.

00:26:24.648 --> 00:26:26.632
So maybe it's time for a

00:26:26.672 --> 00:26:29.015
little in-house unified

00:26:29.035 --> 00:26:30.897
direction and not make it purely.

00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:33.871
foundational hey we're going

00:26:33.911 --> 00:26:34.951
to just determine where the

00:26:34.971 --> 00:26:36.751
money goes and I think I

00:26:36.791 --> 00:26:37.551
mean honestly it's a good

00:26:37.592 --> 00:26:38.332
thing for the interchange

00:26:38.352 --> 00:26:39.172
foundation right this is

00:26:39.192 --> 00:26:40.313
like they need some

00:26:40.393 --> 00:26:43.794
operational um shake up for

00:26:43.834 --> 00:26:46.815
sure so I don't know maybe

00:26:46.954 --> 00:26:47.615
that doesn't necessarily

00:26:47.634 --> 00:26:48.355
means it has to go all

00:26:48.736 --> 00:26:49.336
doesn't mean the pendulum

00:26:49.355 --> 00:26:50.036
has to swing all the way

00:26:50.056 --> 00:26:51.135
the other way right they're

00:26:51.155 --> 00:26:52.717
still yeah I mean I don't

00:26:52.737 --> 00:26:53.297
think it's necessarily a

00:26:53.317 --> 00:26:53.777
bad thing for the

00:26:53.797 --> 00:26:54.678
interchange foundation I

00:26:54.718 --> 00:26:55.518
guess it's just yeah

00:26:56.218 --> 00:26:58.319
It's just, oh,

00:26:58.660 --> 00:27:01.142
we're operationally a bit useless.

00:27:02.742 --> 00:27:03.923
All this decentralization

00:27:03.963 --> 00:27:05.085
business is pretty hard to

00:27:05.125 --> 00:27:05.986
keep a track of.

00:27:06.786 --> 00:27:08.807
What if we centralized?

00:27:09.807 --> 00:27:10.449
Well,

00:27:10.509 --> 00:27:11.750
I think there's two different things.

00:27:11.970 --> 00:27:13.471
One is being a foundation.

00:27:13.912 --> 00:27:15.712
I think the process of

00:27:15.833 --> 00:27:19.756
giving money and grants to outside teams,

00:27:20.576 --> 00:27:21.317
in my eyes,

00:27:21.436 --> 00:27:24.359
is a lot harder than having employees.

00:27:24.460 --> 00:27:24.880
Oh, for sure.

00:27:26.815 --> 00:27:28.395
And having like groups that you are,

00:27:28.476 --> 00:27:29.457
that are responsible,

00:27:29.497 --> 00:27:30.836
that you have direction

00:27:30.916 --> 00:27:32.298
over around timelines

00:27:32.337 --> 00:27:34.419
around deliverables around structure.

00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:37.060
And most, I think in my,

00:27:37.121 --> 00:27:38.000
we talked about this many times,

00:27:38.020 --> 00:27:39.942
but I think this ecosystem

00:27:40.001 --> 00:27:41.202
knows how to fucking give money away.

00:27:41.502 --> 00:27:42.123
Zero.

00:27:42.143 --> 00:27:42.384
Sure.

00:27:42.443 --> 00:27:44.924
But then this is also, this is also like,

00:27:51.989 --> 00:27:53.930
we are not building.

00:27:55.894 --> 00:27:59.979
in this fucking mess.

00:27:59.999 --> 00:28:02.340
No, no, we're not.

00:28:02.622 --> 00:28:04.864
Crypto coins are this weird

00:28:05.183 --> 00:28:07.426
pseudo debt mechanism that

00:28:07.467 --> 00:28:08.887
people can YOLO away.

00:28:08.969 --> 00:28:09.990
They can rewrite.

00:28:10.089 --> 00:28:11.451
They can slash you one day.

00:28:11.471 --> 00:28:12.853
They can take it back the next day.

00:28:14.674 --> 00:28:15.736
It's just this weird

00:28:17.384 --> 00:28:19.786
whatever man it's not it's

00:28:19.846 --> 00:28:21.708
as ephemeral as as you like

00:28:21.768 --> 00:28:22.868
right we're we're playing

00:28:22.888 --> 00:28:23.950
around with this fast and

00:28:23.970 --> 00:28:25.490
loose debt debt medium

00:28:25.691 --> 00:28:33.257
right and the idea that the

00:28:33.557 --> 00:28:36.240
um the idea that you can

00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:38.541
have debt debt or credit

00:28:38.682 --> 00:28:40.383
without serious

00:28:40.442 --> 00:28:41.805
counterparty risk and

00:28:41.904 --> 00:28:45.667
uncertainty is like like

00:28:46.844 --> 00:28:47.805
Whatever, man.

00:28:48.224 --> 00:28:50.207
The whole ecosystem, foundationally,

00:28:51.228 --> 00:28:52.328
is built on a primitive

00:28:52.429 --> 00:28:55.291
that implies very large

00:28:55.531 --> 00:28:57.354
counterparty exposure to risk.

00:28:57.433 --> 00:29:00.576
And this is besides the fact

00:29:00.616 --> 00:29:02.337
that most stuff fails in tech anyway.

00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:04.701
I think you're right,

00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:05.902
and we've talked about it a lot,

00:29:06.041 --> 00:29:07.762
the way that funding is done.

00:29:08.483 --> 00:29:10.085
is done in a super weird way.

00:29:10.144 --> 00:29:11.846
It's quite often very nepotistic.

00:29:11.865 --> 00:29:13.105
It's quite often very corrupt.

00:29:13.526 --> 00:29:14.507
Well,

00:29:14.626 --> 00:29:16.188
I think most of those individuals

00:29:16.228 --> 00:29:18.108
have no understanding of

00:29:18.148 --> 00:29:19.930
how to be able to be in that role.

00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:21.450
Like they're not VCs.

00:29:22.131 --> 00:29:22.530
For sure.

00:29:22.770 --> 00:29:23.471
Well, no, exactly.

00:29:23.510 --> 00:29:25.511
But then I think the problem is also,

00:29:25.652 --> 00:29:28.314
though, that there's a tension between,

00:29:28.814 --> 00:29:30.694
yes, it is very,

00:29:30.734 --> 00:29:32.015
very hard to do those things.

00:29:32.115 --> 00:29:32.756
And then it's very

00:29:33.336 --> 00:29:34.256
comparatively easier to

00:29:34.297 --> 00:29:36.356
handle employees or a contract or blah,

00:29:36.377 --> 00:29:36.778
blah, blah.

00:29:38.097 --> 00:29:43.619
But it's like the honesty of saying,

00:29:48.981 --> 00:29:50.563
if you have a situation

00:29:50.623 --> 00:29:54.203
where your counterparty may not deliver,

00:29:55.404 --> 00:29:57.025
you're exposed to some form of risk.

00:29:57.345 --> 00:29:58.486
If you have a situation

00:29:58.586 --> 00:30:00.846
where you can't even

00:30:00.906 --> 00:30:02.366
guarantee that your

00:30:02.406 --> 00:30:04.327
counterparty is doing the

00:30:04.367 --> 00:30:06.308
work that they say they might do,

00:30:07.722 --> 00:30:08.482
then that's like a

00:30:08.542 --> 00:30:09.683
completely different thing.

00:30:10.023 --> 00:30:12.305
And I use these examples

00:30:12.325 --> 00:30:12.825
because they're on a

00:30:12.884 --> 00:30:18.146
continuum of actual decentralization,

00:30:18.606 --> 00:30:24.189
by which I mean delegated

00:30:24.229 --> 00:30:24.868
decision-making.

00:30:24.909 --> 00:30:25.849
Because on some level,

00:30:27.430 --> 00:30:29.111
even when you're nuts and bolts,

00:30:29.371 --> 00:30:30.611
people building software,

00:30:30.631 --> 00:30:31.392
they're making a bunch of

00:30:31.432 --> 00:30:32.432
decisions on your behalf to

00:30:32.451 --> 00:30:33.412
bring something to market.

00:30:33.992 --> 00:30:34.833
You give them money,

00:30:35.932 --> 00:30:37.034
to delegate a bunch of

00:30:37.074 --> 00:30:38.855
decisions about making some software.

00:30:39.236 --> 00:30:40.436
And that software one day

00:30:40.596 --> 00:30:41.657
will launch or it won't.

00:30:42.278 --> 00:30:44.500
And the extent to which they

00:30:44.520 --> 00:30:46.643
are empowered and delegated

00:30:47.282 --> 00:30:49.325
to deliver that is on a continuum.

00:30:49.464 --> 00:30:50.365
One is where you look over

00:30:50.385 --> 00:30:52.028
their shoulder every day.

00:30:52.067 --> 00:30:52.748
They're an employee.

00:30:52.867 --> 00:30:54.190
One is where you have a

00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:55.211
counterparty agreement.

00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:56.751
You check up on the phone every week.

00:30:57.893 --> 00:30:59.333
every day whatever and then

00:30:59.413 --> 00:31:01.114
one of them is you give

00:31:01.134 --> 00:31:02.473
them the money in tranches

00:31:02.554 --> 00:31:03.515
it kind of happens or it

00:31:03.555 --> 00:31:04.714
doesn't or and then I'm

00:31:04.775 --> 00:31:06.474
right at the far end is you

00:31:06.515 --> 00:31:07.695
hand over some money maybe

00:31:07.715 --> 00:31:08.415
something happens or

00:31:08.435 --> 00:31:12.777
whatever and and and in the

00:31:12.817 --> 00:31:14.917
context where we have these

00:31:14.958 --> 00:31:16.258
systems that imply a lot of

00:31:16.317 --> 00:31:17.959
exposure to debt and risk

00:31:18.019 --> 00:31:19.538
and whatnot and in these

00:31:19.578 --> 00:31:21.239
systems that are supposed

00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.579
to now they're not we know

00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:24.400
they're not and this

00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:25.961
podcast in fact is evidence

00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:26.540
that they're not

00:31:28.123 --> 00:31:28.943
These systems are supposed

00:31:28.983 --> 00:31:30.244
to be low trust or they're

00:31:30.265 --> 00:31:31.766
supposed to be operable in

00:31:31.846 --> 00:31:33.146
a low trust or even a no

00:31:33.186 --> 00:31:33.988
trust environment.

00:31:34.347 --> 00:31:36.048
We obviously would probably

00:31:36.108 --> 00:31:36.910
disagree with that.

00:31:36.970 --> 00:31:38.810
And this podcast is a pretty good example.

00:31:39.872 --> 00:31:40.472
And actually, you know,

00:31:40.492 --> 00:31:41.553
the guests we have on here

00:31:41.614 --> 00:31:44.375
and the way we've run

00:31:44.415 --> 00:31:45.256
things for the last couple

00:31:45.276 --> 00:31:46.336
of years kind of shows that

00:31:47.337 --> 00:31:50.380
it's not really that environment.

00:31:51.361 --> 00:31:52.701
But that's what the marketing is.

00:31:52.942 --> 00:31:53.883
And you go, well, okay,

00:31:54.423 --> 00:31:55.763
it comes down to honesty, right?

00:31:55.785 --> 00:31:56.345
Which is that

00:31:57.790 --> 00:31:59.612
how you structure the way

00:31:59.632 --> 00:32:01.614
that you delegate your

00:32:02.233 --> 00:32:03.836
building of infrastructure,

00:32:03.895 --> 00:32:04.996
in this case software,

00:32:06.557 --> 00:32:11.621
is related to your opinions.

00:32:13.083 --> 00:32:14.063
You're voting with your feet

00:32:14.123 --> 00:32:15.003
on whether or not this

00:32:15.124 --> 00:32:16.744
really is the thing advertised, right?

00:32:17.266 --> 00:32:20.508
Is it a delegated decentralized system?

00:32:20.988 --> 00:32:22.229
Is it low trust?

00:32:22.328 --> 00:32:23.329
Is it zero trust?

00:32:23.410 --> 00:32:26.332
Is it robust to a centralized actor?

00:32:27.372 --> 00:32:28.232
All these sorts of things.

00:32:28.772 --> 00:32:31.255
I know we know to some

00:32:31.295 --> 00:32:32.115
extent that all of that is

00:32:32.135 --> 00:32:32.855
a bit of theater.

00:32:32.875 --> 00:32:34.277
It's a bit of a fiction in

00:32:34.317 --> 00:32:35.038
its current form.

00:32:35.758 --> 00:32:36.818
But it is worth saying.

00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:38.160
It is worth saying.

00:32:38.259 --> 00:32:39.580
I don't understand what your point is,

00:32:39.601 --> 00:32:39.740
though.

00:32:39.861 --> 00:32:40.281
What's the point?

00:32:41.301 --> 00:32:42.702
My point is that by bringing

00:32:42.722 --> 00:32:44.404
things in-house, you're...

00:32:46.685 --> 00:32:47.567
You're just centralizing.

00:32:47.846 --> 00:32:48.887
You're just centralizing.

00:32:48.968 --> 00:32:51.608
And it's completely on a number of axes,

00:32:51.648 --> 00:32:53.911
which is like what we're doing here,

00:32:54.411 --> 00:32:56.553
what trust is, what decentralization is,

00:32:57.073 --> 00:32:57.913
and also just like an

00:32:57.972 --> 00:33:01.095
understanding of like what

00:33:01.154 --> 00:33:03.517
the point of peer to peer assets are.

00:33:05.586 --> 00:33:06.607
It feels like you're trying

00:33:06.647 --> 00:33:09.430
to amortize a risk that you

00:33:09.450 --> 00:33:11.171
can only amortize by not

00:33:11.230 --> 00:33:12.311
running these systems in

00:33:12.352 --> 00:33:13.653
the way that they were designed.

00:33:13.732 --> 00:33:14.512
And that's fine.

00:33:14.553 --> 00:33:15.213
You can do that.

00:33:15.233 --> 00:33:16.434
And that's what we're doing

00:33:16.494 --> 00:33:17.295
as an industry.

00:33:17.315 --> 00:33:18.536
I don't think it makes any difference,

00:33:18.556 --> 00:33:18.695
dude.

00:33:19.076 --> 00:33:19.856
Honestly.

00:33:19.896 --> 00:33:20.176
Do you not?

00:33:21.157 --> 00:33:21.438
I don't.

00:33:22.898 --> 00:33:25.500
I think that foundation is

00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:27.622
still the foundation,

00:33:27.842 --> 00:33:29.042
which means it can clear

00:33:29.103 --> 00:33:30.443
cut and dump this group as

00:33:30.723 --> 00:33:32.424
soon as they want to.

00:33:32.444 --> 00:33:33.846
There's still some structure

00:33:33.945 --> 00:33:34.547
there in terms of

00:33:35.166 --> 00:33:36.366
They might have board seats.

00:33:36.386 --> 00:33:37.428
They might have other types of stuff.

00:33:37.448 --> 00:33:37.847
And depending,

00:33:37.968 --> 00:33:39.067
I assume you still have

00:33:39.188 --> 00:33:39.949
ownership of the board.

00:33:41.628 --> 00:33:45.509
I do think that whether or not,

00:33:47.611 --> 00:33:48.451
I think that team is more

00:33:48.490 --> 00:33:49.832
effective in this role than

00:33:49.852 --> 00:33:52.051
they are externally, number one.

00:33:52.752 --> 00:33:54.593
So I think they're able to be able,

00:33:54.952 --> 00:33:55.752
like even what they've done

00:33:55.772 --> 00:33:58.233
with like SkipGo or some of

00:33:58.874 --> 00:34:00.494
the overall bridging and

00:34:00.535 --> 00:34:02.796
trying to reduce friction

00:34:02.836 --> 00:34:03.796
and those types of things.

00:34:04.286 --> 00:34:06.767
If that comes from Cosmos as

00:34:06.787 --> 00:34:08.967
a chain or the ICF as a group,

00:34:09.967 --> 00:34:11.268
I think that's far more

00:34:12.367 --> 00:34:14.128
valuable to the ecosystem

00:34:14.568 --> 00:34:16.208
than Skip as a third party

00:34:16.329 --> 00:34:17.190
in that ecosystem.

00:34:18.909 --> 00:34:20.110
I think it's better branding.

00:34:20.251 --> 00:34:21.090
It looks better to other

00:34:21.130 --> 00:34:23.690
chains who want to integrate with Cosmos.

00:34:23.771 --> 00:34:25.472
It's just a more professional way.

00:34:25.492 --> 00:34:26.291
And you can look at the

00:34:26.311 --> 00:34:27.152
other teams we work with.

00:34:27.172 --> 00:34:27.753
Look at Aptos.

00:34:29.672 --> 00:34:30.534
Like,

00:34:30.634 --> 00:34:32.034
I know that you would consider them

00:34:32.074 --> 00:34:33.175
as extremely centralized,

00:34:33.195 --> 00:34:34.056
but I also think they're a

00:34:34.096 --> 00:34:35.476
great operations team that

00:34:35.496 --> 00:34:36.157
knows how to ship,

00:34:36.398 --> 00:34:37.478
that knows how to deliver

00:34:38.398 --> 00:34:40.159
and push boundaries forward.

00:34:40.219 --> 00:34:43.061
And you can shit on it

00:34:43.081 --> 00:34:43.483
because from a

00:34:43.503 --> 00:34:44.744
decentralization perspective,

00:34:45.224 --> 00:34:46.385
but they're moving faster

00:34:46.425 --> 00:34:47.385
and it's a competitive spot.

00:34:47.405 --> 00:34:48.126
And I think unless you're in

00:34:48.166 --> 00:34:49.266
a situation that you're not

00:34:49.706 --> 00:34:50.827
moving faster and competitive,

00:34:51.007 --> 00:34:51.889
all this is going away.

00:34:52.268 --> 00:34:53.429
Like, it's all going to die, right?

00:34:53.670 --> 00:34:55.130
Especially on like the ICF

00:34:55.170 --> 00:34:55.851
and these types of things.

00:34:55.871 --> 00:34:56.771
It was already headed that way.

00:34:57.753 --> 00:35:01.402
So I like, like, so from a, from a,

00:35:01.422 --> 00:35:02.987
from a get things done perspective,

00:35:03.027 --> 00:35:04.291
this makes a shitload of sense.

00:35:05.028 --> 00:35:07.090
And I'd rather have the I'd

00:35:07.130 --> 00:35:09.733
rather have a useful ICF in a small,

00:35:10.032 --> 00:35:11.795
a small centralized way

00:35:12.235 --> 00:35:12.896
than what we've had,

00:35:12.916 --> 00:35:14.097
which has been literally

00:35:14.157 --> 00:35:15.237
just we just make fun of it

00:35:15.257 --> 00:35:16.358
in the show for the last year.

00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:17.820
Right.

00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:19.521
And it's circling the drain

00:35:19.882 --> 00:35:20.561
because the only thing it's

00:35:20.581 --> 00:35:21.322
the only reason that even

00:35:21.762 --> 00:35:23.485
the only reason even the

00:35:23.525 --> 00:35:24.585
hub is even still a thing

00:35:24.605 --> 00:35:26.467
is because it was first and

00:35:26.507 --> 00:35:27.307
there was a significant

00:35:27.327 --> 00:35:30.650
amount of of cash influx into the token.

00:35:30.731 --> 00:35:30.871
Right.

00:35:31.431 --> 00:35:32.251
And without that,

00:35:32.411 --> 00:35:33.572
it would it would have done nothing.

00:35:33.833 --> 00:35:35.554
And now what you have is now

00:35:35.673 --> 00:35:36.695
we've added Wasm.

00:35:36.735 --> 00:35:37.514
You have them competing.

00:35:37.574 --> 00:35:40.297
It's like it's such a shitty strategy,

00:35:40.456 --> 00:35:41.237
like competing against

00:35:41.257 --> 00:35:42.918
their own consumer chains.

00:35:43.418 --> 00:35:45.201
Like it was just they're

00:35:45.221 --> 00:35:48.143
trying to find a vision for what this is.

00:35:48.202 --> 00:35:48.702
And I think

00:35:49.349 --> 00:35:51.951
the hub as a vision might not be,

00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:53.771
might not be any clearer,

00:35:54.253 --> 00:35:56.474
but the interchange

00:35:56.494 --> 00:35:59.856
foundation or the idea of

00:35:59.956 --> 00:36:03.599
building strategy at a much higher level,

00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:04.880
I think is a little bit more clear.

00:36:07.161 --> 00:36:07.742
So I don't know.

00:36:07.981 --> 00:36:11.063
I mean, again, like it, I don't like it.

00:36:11.083 --> 00:36:12.425
I also think that it's,

00:36:12.485 --> 00:36:13.485
I think it was Raman's

00:36:13.505 --> 00:36:14.166
threat or somebody in

00:36:14.206 --> 00:36:15.527
Twitter said something along the lines of,

00:36:17.289 --> 00:36:17.329
um,

00:36:19.405 --> 00:36:20.746
I think it was Rama's Twitter.

00:36:21.128 --> 00:36:21.467
I'll find it.

00:36:21.507 --> 00:36:22.329
I'll put the link in the show notes,

00:36:22.349 --> 00:36:23.088
but I think he had

00:36:23.108 --> 00:36:24.110
something along the lines of like,

00:36:24.791 --> 00:36:26.853
will the ICF foundation

00:36:26.992 --> 00:36:28.795
crush this team or will

00:36:28.835 --> 00:36:32.318
this team break through and, you know,

00:36:32.358 --> 00:36:33.318
continue to add value.

00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:34.980
And I think my response was

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:35.840
something along the lines of like,

00:36:36.201 --> 00:36:37.121
I've always felt that like,

00:36:37.952 --> 00:36:39.713
teams that have strong

00:36:39.753 --> 00:36:41.434
engineering who ship, who are,

00:36:42.135 --> 00:36:43.534
who are honest in their ways,

00:36:43.795 --> 00:36:45.516
always win over time.

00:36:46.197 --> 00:36:48.478
But that power of ego and

00:36:48.518 --> 00:36:50.739
stupidity and those types of things,

00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.960
like they went a lot too.

00:36:52.521 --> 00:36:53.762
So, so we'll see.

00:36:54.561 --> 00:36:56.023
And, uh, again, this is,

00:36:56.043 --> 00:36:56.804
this is another great thing

00:36:56.824 --> 00:36:58.083
that's going to happen for next year too.

00:36:58.123 --> 00:36:59.204
I think this is actually pretty cool.

00:36:59.925 --> 00:37:02.106
I think, I also think, um,

00:37:03.496 --> 00:37:05.297
For all the stuff that Mags and Barry do,

00:37:05.557 --> 00:37:06.719
both in this ecosystem and

00:37:06.739 --> 00:37:07.579
their ability to work

00:37:07.659 --> 00:37:08.519
outside of this ecosystem, I mean,

00:37:08.539 --> 00:37:10.280
that's a great team.

00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:12.302
We obviously worked closely

00:37:12.342 --> 00:37:13.364
with stuff on the Oracle

00:37:13.384 --> 00:37:14.605
side and even in the older

00:37:14.625 --> 00:37:16.585
days with the MEV product

00:37:16.606 --> 00:37:17.246
and all that kind of stuff.

00:37:17.786 --> 00:37:19.068
We have a huge amount of

00:37:19.088 --> 00:37:19.829
respect for this team.

00:37:19.909 --> 00:37:21.369
They are true believers in Cosmos.

00:37:21.710 --> 00:37:24.351
You've got to give them that.

00:37:24.632 --> 00:37:26.813
They could have done anything in here.

00:37:26.994 --> 00:37:27.875
I think they could have

00:37:28.215 --> 00:37:31.018
played a huge role in any ecosystem,

00:37:31.057 --> 00:37:32.398
but they are all in.

00:37:34.041 --> 00:37:34.583
And this is a good,

00:37:34.603 --> 00:37:35.483
this is a good example of that.

00:37:35.543 --> 00:37:37.125
I think I'm interested to see how this,

00:37:37.264 --> 00:37:38.306
how this conversation started.

00:37:38.947 --> 00:37:40.148
Maybe we can get them on and

00:37:40.228 --> 00:37:41.289
come back out and talk about how,

00:37:41.869 --> 00:37:44.291
how this whole, um, idea started.

00:37:44.371 --> 00:37:45.052
Cause it'd be interesting.

00:37:45.092 --> 00:37:45.432
Yeah.

00:37:45.733 --> 00:37:46.333
I mean, it would,

00:37:46.514 --> 00:37:48.215
it would be great to get them on and, and,

00:37:48.496 --> 00:37:49.976
and chew the fat about it for sure.

00:37:50.197 --> 00:37:51.539
Like, I mean, I like,

00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:53.521
I think the thing is like it from a,

00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:57.503
from a purely shipping

00:37:57.684 --> 00:37:58.985
features perspective.

00:38:00.231 --> 00:38:00.570
Yeah.

00:38:00.690 --> 00:38:00.851
Yeah.

00:38:00.911 --> 00:38:03.094
I mean, it's, it's clearly,

00:38:03.193 --> 00:38:03.954
it's clearly a good thing

00:38:03.974 --> 00:38:08.597
for the cosmos ecosystem, but it's,

00:38:09.958 --> 00:38:12.021
I think my, my, my,

00:38:12.260 --> 00:38:13.442
my wider point is that

00:38:13.461 --> 00:38:14.483
there is just a deep,

00:38:16.664 --> 00:38:18.606
I have a deep frustration

00:38:18.626 --> 00:38:21.849
or maybe fatigue with the

00:38:21.889 --> 00:38:23.150
lack of original thinking

00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:25.733
around how you can

00:38:28.376 --> 00:38:31.217
fund um how you can manage

00:38:31.297 --> 00:38:33.838
products and projects and

00:38:33.878 --> 00:38:35.679
bring use cases to life

00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:37.920
right and I think that it's

00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:39.242
kind of back to again we

00:38:39.282 --> 00:38:40.081
talked about this a lot

00:38:40.141 --> 00:38:41.063
right which is like you

00:38:41.083 --> 00:38:42.244
know what's the what's the

00:38:42.324 --> 00:38:43.043
jumping off point of

00:38:43.063 --> 00:38:44.605
responsibility for a core

00:38:44.625 --> 00:38:47.166
team who may be uh working

00:38:47.206 --> 00:38:49.507
on a blockchain without you

00:38:49.527 --> 00:38:50.807
know the substrate above it

00:38:50.827 --> 00:38:51.849
or whatever like what's

00:38:51.889 --> 00:38:53.329
their what's their role in

00:38:53.389 --> 00:38:55.570
product development and it's like well

00:38:58.447 --> 00:39:00.568
pretty crucial really like

00:39:00.628 --> 00:39:03.768
that's it it's it's the

00:39:03.789 --> 00:39:05.009
whole ball game really

00:39:05.108 --> 00:39:08.070
because you know I'm not

00:39:14.833 --> 00:39:16.414
yeah I just I don't know I

00:39:16.434 --> 00:39:17.054
think at this point we've

00:39:17.094 --> 00:39:17.793
got we've we've got

00:39:17.853 --> 00:39:19.034
ethereum right which is

00:39:19.074 --> 00:39:20.094
like a kind of general

00:39:20.114 --> 00:39:21.295
purpose compute engine and

00:39:21.335 --> 00:39:23.315
it has some use cases right

00:39:23.416 --> 00:39:25.396
and some of them

00:39:28.666 --> 00:39:32.096
Some of them are actually

00:39:32.697 --> 00:39:34.842
use cases that might continue.

00:39:35.528 --> 00:39:36.530
all other things being equal,

00:39:36.570 --> 00:39:37.130
and some of them will

00:39:37.150 --> 00:39:38.610
gradually die off in time, right?

00:39:39.291 --> 00:39:43.135
And most, the real question is like,

00:39:43.175 --> 00:39:43.835
you know, what is the,

00:39:44.596 --> 00:39:45.817
is the dominant paradigm

00:39:45.856 --> 00:39:48.938
from here going to be, you know,

00:39:49.179 --> 00:39:50.940
single global shared state

00:39:51.121 --> 00:39:52.041
on one or two large

00:39:52.081 --> 00:39:56.724
blockchains for very comparatively small,

00:39:56.764 --> 00:39:57.706
simple pieces of code,

00:39:57.965 --> 00:39:59.226
or is it going to be

00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:02.101
vertical stacks like you

00:40:02.121 --> 00:40:03.541
know app chain thesis or

00:40:03.581 --> 00:40:04.382
blah blah blah blah like

00:40:05.762 --> 00:40:06.663
what is all of this stuff

00:40:06.702 --> 00:40:07.762
going to look like and the

00:40:07.782 --> 00:40:13.686
and the the econo the the

00:40:13.746 --> 00:40:15.005
technology side of that is

00:40:15.045 --> 00:40:16.487
like whatever man the the

00:40:16.586 --> 00:40:17.987
economics the project

00:40:18.027 --> 00:40:19.307
management the product

00:40:19.728 --> 00:40:20.949
management the product

00:40:21.048 --> 00:40:23.309
vision those are the things

00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:25.891
that are lacking yeah you know agreed um

00:40:27.021 --> 00:40:29.242
And so I guess, like, yeah, like,

00:40:29.302 --> 00:40:30.422
obviously, no shade and skip.

00:40:30.623 --> 00:40:33.284
Obviously, I think, you know, like you say,

00:40:33.324 --> 00:40:33.985
all the things you said,

00:40:34.005 --> 00:40:34.784
for all the reasons you said,

00:40:34.885 --> 00:40:36.465
this is a bullish thing.

00:40:36.565 --> 00:40:38.547
It's a good thing for Cosmos.

00:40:39.606 --> 00:40:41.467
But it's like, I guess it's just,

00:40:41.527 --> 00:40:41.827
you can't,

00:40:41.887 --> 00:40:42.807
I just cannot shake the

00:40:42.827 --> 00:40:44.329
disappointment that an

00:40:44.409 --> 00:40:46.190
ecosystem of blockchains,

00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:47.670
of application-specific blockchains,

00:40:47.989 --> 00:40:48.971
didn't manage to innovate

00:40:49.833 --> 00:40:50.974
anything or really figure

00:40:51.034 --> 00:40:53.195
out anything more important

00:40:53.335 --> 00:40:55.938
around how to do product

00:40:56.097 --> 00:40:58.099
how to bring liquidity or

00:40:58.139 --> 00:40:59.780
how to launch any actual

00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:00.780
use cases because this is

00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.282
where we are well no but

00:41:03.342 --> 00:41:03.862
this is the point we

00:41:03.902 --> 00:41:05.023
launched that what eighty

00:41:05.143 --> 00:41:06.184
eighty three production

00:41:06.204 --> 00:41:07.246
blockchains in the cosmos

00:41:07.286 --> 00:41:08.186
ecosystem is one of the

00:41:08.266 --> 00:41:10.909
widest interrupt interrupt

00:41:11.489 --> 00:41:15.512
um um you know I believe

00:41:15.552 --> 00:41:17.492
according to was it caliscans

00:41:18.414 --> 00:41:19.875
Ontology of blockchains,

00:41:20.494 --> 00:41:23.536
Cosmos is one of the, if not the,

00:41:24.237 --> 00:41:27.137
widest deployed generation

00:41:27.197 --> 00:41:28.818
three blockchain technology

00:41:28.858 --> 00:41:30.398
that is interoperable.

00:41:31.338 --> 00:41:32.300
Its primary purpose is

00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:36.782
interchain operability technology.

00:41:37.021 --> 00:41:40.163
And yet, have we had a novel killer app,

00:41:41.023 --> 00:41:42.864
a killer use case for it?

00:41:43.043 --> 00:41:44.385
That cannot be done elsewhere.

00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:46.559
again like I don't I don't

00:41:46.579 --> 00:41:47.900
think skip is that's that's

00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:48.960
not skip's joke that's not

00:41:48.981 --> 00:41:51.561
their job I know I mean

00:41:51.581 --> 00:41:52.543
they are a product team

00:41:52.563 --> 00:41:53.782
though but that product

00:41:54.063 --> 00:41:54.744
those products have been

00:41:54.804 --> 00:41:57.065
primarily infrastructure

00:41:57.164 --> 00:41:59.346
slash usability perspective

00:41:59.425 --> 00:42:01.085
to still enable use cases

00:42:01.327 --> 00:42:02.567
right like they're solving

00:42:02.907 --> 00:42:03.668
they're solving problems

00:42:03.688 --> 00:42:04.688
that oh I don't know if I

00:42:04.708 --> 00:42:05.407
just I don't know if I

00:42:05.427 --> 00:42:06.289
should say this they're

00:42:06.429 --> 00:42:07.088
they're solving tough

00:42:07.128 --> 00:42:07.768
problems that probably

00:42:07.789 --> 00:42:09.530
shouldn't exist this is a

00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:10.349
good way of saying it right

00:42:10.369 --> 00:42:11.291
like just what they've done

00:42:11.311 --> 00:42:12.170
on the bridging side those

00:42:12.190 --> 00:42:12.951
are those are tough

00:42:13.012 --> 00:42:14.072
problems that that are just

00:42:14.844 --> 00:42:15.764
a byproduct of,

00:42:16.025 --> 00:42:16.985
of the technology and

00:42:17.045 --> 00:42:18.045
shouldn't exist anyway.

00:42:18.485 --> 00:42:19.626
And once those are gone,

00:42:19.686 --> 00:42:22.547
which they will go away, there's still,

00:42:22.708 --> 00:42:24.289
your point is still now,

00:42:24.409 --> 00:42:26.509
now we have this beautiful running car,

00:42:26.548 --> 00:42:27.170
no place to go.

00:42:28.110 --> 00:42:28.269
Right.

00:42:28.289 --> 00:42:29.951
Like that's yeah.

00:42:30.110 --> 00:42:31.291
But, but again, like that's not,

00:42:31.550 --> 00:42:31.990
I don't know if that,

00:42:32.351 --> 00:42:33.172
and that I don't think is

00:42:33.192 --> 00:42:34.331
the ICF's issue either.

00:42:35.452 --> 00:42:35.833
I think the,

00:42:36.472 --> 00:42:37.753
and I think the difficulty there, right.

00:42:37.853 --> 00:42:38.634
Is that I think anybody

00:42:38.653 --> 00:42:39.853
who's worked in industry

00:42:39.873 --> 00:42:41.675
for a period of time, um,

00:42:42.030 --> 00:42:43.231
especially anybody who cares

00:42:43.351 --> 00:42:49.096
about code quality or doing things well,

00:42:49.295 --> 00:42:50.657
or especially if you have

00:42:50.677 --> 00:42:52.358
an interest in like ESO

00:42:52.378 --> 00:42:53.438
lungs or anything like that,

00:42:53.458 --> 00:42:54.259
and you've tried to build

00:42:54.318 --> 00:42:56.280
anything genuinely quite ambitious,

00:42:57.141 --> 00:42:58.061
there's a good chance that

00:42:58.081 --> 00:42:59.181
at some point you built

00:42:59.242 --> 00:43:00.402
something that was like,

00:43:01.925 --> 00:43:03.045
lamborghini or at the very

00:43:03.065 --> 00:43:04.306
least maybe like a you know

00:43:05.206 --> 00:43:06.387
a decent sports car and

00:43:06.407 --> 00:43:07.487
you've handed it over to a

00:43:07.547 --> 00:43:09.668
client or launched it in an

00:43:09.728 --> 00:43:11.150
enterprise environment and

00:43:11.329 --> 00:43:15.650
realized that you know yeah

00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:16.992
it's dead on arrival and

00:43:17.112 --> 00:43:18.952
and this has been a year

00:43:18.992 --> 00:43:20.253
two years of your time and

00:43:20.273 --> 00:43:21.494
your team's time building

00:43:21.534 --> 00:43:23.514
something genuinely quite

00:43:23.853 --> 00:43:25.175
powerful and impressive

00:43:26.525 --> 00:43:28.465
That is just so wide of the

00:43:28.505 --> 00:43:29.766
mark for reasons that are

00:43:29.847 --> 00:43:31.407
not the thing that you were building.

00:43:32.407 --> 00:43:35.630
And that's par for the course, right?

00:43:35.750 --> 00:43:38.251
In technology, a lot of projects, Mr. Mark,

00:43:38.371 --> 00:43:40.411
a lot of them end up going

00:43:40.492 --> 00:43:45.094
out behind the barn, you know, but right.

00:43:45.114 --> 00:43:46.454
But in the industry environment,

00:43:46.835 --> 00:43:47.335
it's a lot,

00:43:47.856 --> 00:43:50.836
I think it's a lot easier to be like,

00:43:52.777 --> 00:43:53.157
to be like,

00:43:53.217 --> 00:43:56.059
whatever that big company wasted.

00:43:56.976 --> 00:43:58.197
two million pounds of r&d

00:43:59.458 --> 00:44:01.358
didn't go anywhere they're

00:44:01.378 --> 00:44:02.219
going to write that off on

00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:03.239
their annual statement

00:44:04.219 --> 00:44:05.201
everybody on those teams

00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:06.641
got paid you know they're

00:44:06.661 --> 00:44:07.902
going to go drink some

00:44:08.061 --> 00:44:09.342
pints down the pub and go

00:44:09.402 --> 00:44:10.182
what a shame about that

00:44:10.222 --> 00:44:11.443
project and the local

00:44:11.483 --> 00:44:12.824
economy will benefit right

00:44:13.403 --> 00:44:15.244
like it's there's something

00:44:15.364 --> 00:44:16.365
like a little bit more just

00:44:16.385 --> 00:44:17.726
like that's capitalism

00:44:17.806 --> 00:44:19.126
about big company fucking

00:44:19.206 --> 00:44:20.307
up like that there's

00:44:20.327 --> 00:44:21.288
something like a little bit

00:44:22.224 --> 00:44:23.447
more of a bummer about

00:44:23.507 --> 00:44:24.829
blockchains doing

00:44:24.869 --> 00:44:26.273
disingenuous stuff because

00:44:26.373 --> 00:44:27.355
at the end of the day like

00:44:27.375 --> 00:44:28.096
there are a lot of people

00:44:28.135 --> 00:44:29.237
holding the bag for it that

00:44:29.418 --> 00:44:30.820
aren't big companies with

00:44:30.860 --> 00:44:32.324
big pockets and I think

00:44:32.344 --> 00:44:33.405
that's that's kind of part

00:44:33.445 --> 00:44:34.789
of the other thing right is that

00:44:35.862 --> 00:44:38.143
the the risk thing isn't the

00:44:38.164 --> 00:44:40.306
the there's something yeah

00:44:40.686 --> 00:44:41.766
you're right there's

00:44:41.786 --> 00:44:42.467
something about the way the

00:44:42.507 --> 00:44:43.909
risk is shared which isn't

00:44:44.108 --> 00:44:46.731
also like and you know

00:44:46.751 --> 00:44:47.452
we're a part of that as

00:44:47.492 --> 00:44:49.753
well because we we hold in

00:44:49.813 --> 00:44:51.195
some ways more risk a lot

00:44:51.235 --> 00:44:52.155
of the time but then we

00:44:52.215 --> 00:44:53.556
also help get more benefit

00:44:53.657 --> 00:44:55.539
and actually by the time

00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:56.920
you've done the rodeo of a

00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:57.601
blockchain that's been

00:44:57.641 --> 00:44:58.420
semi-successful like

00:44:58.882 --> 00:45:00.202
semi-successful a couple of

00:45:00.242 --> 00:45:02.184
times sorry you stop mumbling

00:45:03.043 --> 00:45:04.844
know our risk as businesses

00:45:04.945 --> 00:45:06.005
is probably lower than the

00:45:06.065 --> 00:45:08.025
average investor like in

00:45:08.045 --> 00:45:09.686
the aggregate and so it's

00:45:10.648 --> 00:45:11.768
it's again back to like I'm

00:45:11.807 --> 00:45:12.528
sure the interchange

00:45:12.548 --> 00:45:13.429
foundation and this is

00:45:13.449 --> 00:45:14.989
again no shade on them but

00:45:15.010 --> 00:45:16.630
like or any foundation

00:45:16.731 --> 00:45:18.110
really like a lot of these

00:45:18.130 --> 00:45:19.391
foundations are not coming

00:45:19.411 --> 00:45:21.333
from nowhere um or a lot of

00:45:21.353 --> 00:45:22.393
these teams and you know

00:45:22.413 --> 00:45:23.554
they're they're not um

00:45:25.956 --> 00:45:27.257
they might be risking more

00:45:27.336 --> 00:45:28.856
absolute dollars on the table,

00:45:29.257 --> 00:45:30.458
but they're not risking

00:45:30.538 --> 00:45:31.659
more in the aggregate than

00:45:31.699 --> 00:45:32.518
what they can afford,

00:45:32.778 --> 00:45:33.559
if that makes sense.

00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.059
And so I think that's why

00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:37.780
the way in which these

00:45:38.422 --> 00:45:39.481
crypto economies we're

00:45:39.521 --> 00:45:40.902
building are structured or

00:45:40.922 --> 00:45:41.922
how they're thought out in

00:45:41.963 --> 00:45:42.884
terms of like the

00:45:42.943 --> 00:45:44.543
responsibility of a product

00:45:44.603 --> 00:45:47.146
as well is like, it is important.

00:45:48.905 --> 00:45:49.467
And again,

00:45:49.527 --> 00:45:50.367
it's a shame because it's

00:45:50.427 --> 00:45:51.588
another thing that I kind

00:45:51.608 --> 00:45:53.427
of hope Cosmos would push

00:45:53.487 --> 00:45:54.668
the needle on a little bit.

00:45:55.447 --> 00:45:57.927
But then what are you going

00:45:58.047 --> 00:46:00.148
to do three years in the bear market?

00:46:01.208 --> 00:46:01.788
We're not going to come up

00:46:01.807 --> 00:46:03.289
with any novel new ways of

00:46:03.608 --> 00:46:04.969
bootstrapping liquidity, are we?

00:46:05.009 --> 00:46:07.610
Yeah,

00:46:07.670 --> 00:46:10.050
I agree with you that the market

00:46:10.070 --> 00:46:12.451
doesn't help in that situation either.

00:46:12.570 --> 00:46:14.771
I totally understand that.

00:46:14.791 --> 00:46:15.670
We're so dependent on the

00:46:15.710 --> 00:46:17.072
external economy that it's

00:46:17.132 --> 00:46:20.492
kind of like we're just

00:46:20.532 --> 00:46:21.833
playing with toy money over here,

00:46:21.853 --> 00:46:22.492
aren't we?

00:46:22.532 --> 00:46:23.233
By comparison.

00:46:23.702 --> 00:46:25.063
Well, well,

00:46:25.083 --> 00:46:28.384
but I think the the comparison

00:46:28.443 --> 00:46:28.983
is correct.

00:46:29.184 --> 00:46:31.005
Like the idea like Apple threw away what,

00:46:31.025 --> 00:46:31.965
like twenty or thirty

00:46:31.985 --> 00:46:33.164
billion on their car thing.

00:46:33.865 --> 00:46:35.786
And then somebody else just got out of it,

00:46:35.826 --> 00:46:36.005
too.

00:46:36.045 --> 00:46:39.306
Was it was it the combination GM one?

00:46:39.606 --> 00:46:40.567
Somebody put in like twenty

00:46:40.586 --> 00:46:41.407
or thirty billion on

00:46:41.447 --> 00:46:42.347
self-driving cars and just

00:46:42.387 --> 00:46:43.148
walked away from it.

00:46:43.987 --> 00:46:44.827
And that technology will get

00:46:44.927 --> 00:46:46.528
used in some sort of small situations.

00:46:46.568 --> 00:46:48.010
But like there's or Apple,

00:46:48.469 --> 00:46:50.250
like putting twenty billion

00:46:50.269 --> 00:46:51.710
into the fucking vision pro

00:46:51.791 --> 00:46:54.391
and selling a thousand of them like like.

00:46:54.751 --> 00:46:55.132
But you're right.

00:46:55.152 --> 00:46:56.213
I don't necessarily feel bad.

00:46:56.233 --> 00:46:57.092
I mean, that is capitalism.

00:46:57.112 --> 00:46:59.373
And you want to have companies take risks,

00:46:59.474 --> 00:46:59.653
right?

00:46:59.673 --> 00:47:00.855
And you want to try to see

00:47:00.875 --> 00:47:02.235
some of those type situations that occur.

00:47:02.954 --> 00:47:04.195
And you can.

00:47:05.597 --> 00:47:06.038
However,

00:47:06.418 --> 00:47:08.559
those losses are not based off of

00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:10.440
people buying into a

00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:12.161
make-believe token that got

00:47:12.221 --> 00:47:13.721
generated out of thin air, right?

00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.961
Hoping for an increase to be

00:47:16.001 --> 00:47:16.762
able to sell it at some

00:47:16.802 --> 00:47:17.563
point in the future, right?

00:47:19.043 --> 00:47:21.664
It's that money in those organizations,

00:47:21.684 --> 00:47:22.485
it's shareholder money.

00:47:22.505 --> 00:47:24.565
That money did come from sales of objects.

00:47:24.585 --> 00:47:26.025
So there was value that was changed.

00:47:26.567 --> 00:47:28.246
But yeah, I do think that the,

00:47:28.668 --> 00:47:29.827
which is going back to our original point,

00:47:29.847 --> 00:47:30.268
which is like,

00:47:30.668 --> 00:47:31.528
it's difficult to be able

00:47:31.548 --> 00:47:32.768
to be in a situation where

00:47:33.289 --> 00:47:34.449
you have funds coming in

00:47:35.451 --> 00:47:36.391
Where you have a foundation

00:47:36.411 --> 00:47:39.614
that is selling off or, you know,

00:47:39.634 --> 00:47:40.414
providing liquidity

00:47:40.434 --> 00:47:41.795
associated to a token

00:47:42.114 --> 00:47:44.036
that's putting that money

00:47:44.097 --> 00:47:45.257
into the hands of project

00:47:45.277 --> 00:47:48.398
teams when they do not have

00:47:48.438 --> 00:47:49.480
the skill set to know how

00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:50.440
to manage and build

00:47:50.481 --> 00:47:52.222
contracts and structures around that.

00:47:52.961 --> 00:47:53.981
um because that you're right

00:47:54.081 --> 00:47:55.663
that money's not like hey

00:47:55.682 --> 00:47:56.463
we're making all this money

00:47:56.483 --> 00:47:57.242
by selling all these type

00:47:57.262 --> 00:47:58.844
of things like that is

00:47:59.063 --> 00:48:00.423
that's directly related to

00:48:00.965 --> 00:48:02.744
the tokenomics and I think

00:48:02.804 --> 00:48:03.945
it's much harder to do that

00:48:04.025 --> 00:48:05.545
when in those situations

00:48:05.626 --> 00:48:06.806
and I I agree that I don't

00:48:06.827 --> 00:48:07.907
think I just don't think

00:48:07.927 --> 00:48:08.967
there's a ton of teams to

00:48:08.987 --> 00:48:10.208
do that really well some

00:48:10.347 --> 00:48:10.987
some teams doing pretty

00:48:11.007 --> 00:48:11.927
decent but but there's a

00:48:11.967 --> 00:48:12.887
bunch that just kind of

00:48:13.027 --> 00:48:14.048
just keep throwing shit at

00:48:14.068 --> 00:48:16.510
the wall like yeah and you

00:48:16.530 --> 00:48:17.449
know think about how

00:48:18.137 --> 00:48:19.639
comparatively good like the

00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:21.360
tooling for funding and

00:48:21.380 --> 00:48:24.364
management and whatnot um

00:48:25.646 --> 00:48:27.327
is like like downdown and

00:48:27.347 --> 00:48:28.009
stuff like that they're

00:48:28.028 --> 00:48:29.050
like way way better than a

00:48:29.090 --> 00:48:31.293
lot of the other I mean you

00:48:31.313 --> 00:48:33.795
know the the technology the

00:48:33.815 --> 00:48:35.297
state of the art and other ecosystems has

00:48:36.976 --> 00:48:39.119
in a lot of cases caught up now, like,

00:48:39.219 --> 00:48:39.661
but you know,

00:48:39.701 --> 00:48:42.684
Dada was very impressive when it came out,

00:48:42.844 --> 00:48:43.585
still impressive.

00:48:44.206 --> 00:48:45.588
And, you know, it turns out that all the,

00:48:45.608 --> 00:48:46.289
you know,

00:48:46.409 --> 00:48:47.451
all of the problems that were

00:48:47.471 --> 00:48:48.391
the hardest about that

00:48:48.411 --> 00:48:49.634
funding story were all the

00:48:49.753 --> 00:48:52.358
ones of organization, coordination,

00:48:52.438 --> 00:48:52.898
vetting,

00:48:53.438 --> 00:48:55.059
There's nothing like it

00:48:55.099 --> 00:48:56.519
wasn't releasing funds.

00:48:56.739 --> 00:48:58.699
No, it's not funding operations.

00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:00.201
Funding operations is like

00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:01.840
you want to provide visibility to that.

00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:03.420
Like those are I mean, honestly,

00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:04.402
stuff like that,

00:49:04.442 --> 00:49:05.541
like those are nice to have

00:49:05.802 --> 00:49:06.641
after you have a real

00:49:06.681 --> 00:49:07.722
strong structure of how

00:49:07.742 --> 00:49:09.722
you're doing grant and team

00:49:09.762 --> 00:49:13.184
management and objective, you know,

00:49:13.264 --> 00:49:14.864
and like percent complete

00:49:15.623 --> 00:49:17.764
and like associated risks

00:49:17.804 --> 00:49:19.005
and like like after you

00:49:19.025 --> 00:49:19.824
have a real structure,

00:49:19.844 --> 00:49:21.226
then you can put that into a tool set.

00:49:21.246 --> 00:49:21.885
But like just by

00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:24.320
because I would if I had

00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:25.521
twenty million tokens to

00:49:25.541 --> 00:49:26.440
get you know to build a

00:49:26.481 --> 00:49:27.481
structure and some sort of

00:49:27.541 --> 00:49:28.543
grant just this because I

00:49:28.563 --> 00:49:29.123
have an operational

00:49:29.164 --> 00:49:30.043
platform to do it still

00:49:30.063 --> 00:49:31.626
means I could be a moron in

00:49:31.646 --> 00:49:34.648
it yeah it sort of it

00:49:34.668 --> 00:49:36.809
reminds me a lot of the um

00:49:36.909 --> 00:49:38.690
I saw recently like uh this

00:49:38.710 --> 00:49:40.293
was in research land I saw

00:49:40.333 --> 00:49:41.353
something to do with like

00:49:41.432 --> 00:49:43.795
fractionalization of um

00:49:44.036 --> 00:49:45.356
music royalties and I was

00:49:45.376 --> 00:49:46.376
like this is a great use

00:49:46.416 --> 00:49:47.358
case it's a cracking use

00:49:47.378 --> 00:49:48.199
case and I was like

00:49:51.050 --> 00:49:53.512
yeah I mean the average like

00:49:54.112 --> 00:49:55.592
small to mid indie band

00:49:55.612 --> 00:49:58.775
playing festival stages you

00:49:58.795 --> 00:49:59.996
could fractionalize their

00:50:00.036 --> 00:50:01.536
royalties and round it up

00:50:01.556 --> 00:50:03.878
to one pence you know right

00:50:04.259 --> 00:50:05.719
like the problem that

00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:07.360
you've identified is not a

00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:09.302
problem like the issue

00:50:09.342 --> 00:50:10.643
they're trying to survive

00:50:11.063 --> 00:50:12.684
and the whole of that band

00:50:12.804 --> 00:50:13.864
is bringing in what one

00:50:13.925 --> 00:50:15.746
junior dev is in a year in

00:50:15.827 --> 00:50:19.108
royalties if that like you know

00:50:21.788 --> 00:50:26.291
The problems that involve

00:50:26.331 --> 00:50:27.612
financial technology,

00:50:29.713 --> 00:50:31.213
a lot of them where they do

00:50:31.454 --> 00:50:33.115
maybe could use a new primitive,

00:50:33.952 --> 00:50:34.353
it will be an

00:50:34.432 --> 00:50:36.153
extraordinarily simple primitive,

00:50:36.514 --> 00:50:37.574
like a lot of the stuff

00:50:37.594 --> 00:50:39.034
that's actually being

00:50:39.074 --> 00:50:40.195
experimented with as,

00:50:40.295 --> 00:50:41.394
as I understand it in terms

00:50:41.434 --> 00:50:42.936
of efficiency gains and

00:50:42.976 --> 00:50:46.157
whatnot is like very, very simple stuff.

00:50:46.217 --> 00:50:47.137
Or it's like being able to

00:50:47.177 --> 00:50:48.617
do stuff out of hours and

00:50:48.657 --> 00:50:50.358
track it on a ledger or whatever,

00:50:50.378 --> 00:50:51.458
or track it publicly.

00:50:51.498 --> 00:50:53.039
These are all like the

00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:54.699
technology is not the hard part.

00:50:54.739 --> 00:50:55.219
It's just the,

00:50:56.139 --> 00:50:57.960
there's just some tiny

00:50:58.041 --> 00:50:59.900
missing two percent that

00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:00.942
technology can give.

00:51:01.661 --> 00:51:01.862
And,

00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:05.581
All of the hard stuff is implementation,

00:51:05.722 --> 00:51:06.802
understanding of the market,

00:51:07.043 --> 00:51:08.824
knowing the market opportunity is there,

00:51:09.125 --> 00:51:10.346
talking to the regulator,

00:51:10.365 --> 00:51:11.407
making sure it's legal,

00:51:11.467 --> 00:51:12.887
finding the capitals to run it,

00:51:13.527 --> 00:51:14.889
finding the people to fill

00:51:14.929 --> 00:51:15.969
out the paperwork and all

00:51:15.989 --> 00:51:16.690
that kind of stuff.

00:51:16.771 --> 00:51:19.353
And that's like one side of the world,

00:51:19.393 --> 00:51:20.813
which is like the B to B,

00:51:20.853 --> 00:51:22.054
the kind of FinTech-y kind

00:51:22.074 --> 00:51:23.596
of angle of it.

00:51:23.635 --> 00:51:24.677
And then there's like, okay,

00:51:24.717 --> 00:51:25.898
and then there's all of this like...

00:51:29.338 --> 00:51:30.820
financial technology overlay,

00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:31.420
like I guess like the

00:51:31.442 --> 00:51:32.663
royalties example or whatever,

00:51:32.684 --> 00:51:33.505
where you're creating new

00:51:33.565 --> 00:51:34.827
derivatives on top of things.

00:51:35.208 --> 00:51:36.088
And so many of the new

00:51:36.128 --> 00:51:37.050
derivatives on top of

00:51:37.090 --> 00:51:38.472
things is just stuff where

00:51:39.014 --> 00:51:41.478
if somebody said in the TradFi world,

00:51:43.317 --> 00:51:43.516
yeah,

00:51:43.536 --> 00:51:45.297
we're going to take artists royalties

00:51:45.338 --> 00:51:46.938
for record sales and we're

00:51:46.958 --> 00:51:49.898
going to make it a fractional derivative.

00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:52.300
People would be like, I'm sorry,

00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:53.641
you seem to have,

00:51:54.380 --> 00:51:55.440
you seem to have mistaken

00:51:55.501 --> 00:51:56.461
us for people that play

00:51:56.481 --> 00:51:58.181
with very small amounts of money.

00:51:58.563 --> 00:51:59.503
This is a bank.

00:52:00.222 --> 00:52:01.123
We make fractional

00:52:01.164 --> 00:52:02.003
derivatives for things

00:52:02.043 --> 00:52:03.603
worth billions of dollars,

00:52:03.925 --> 00:52:05.545
not things worth fucking

00:52:05.644 --> 00:52:07.585
nothing because they're music royalties.

00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:10.201
And so like the thing,

00:52:10.221 --> 00:52:11.902
just because something's P to P doesn't,

00:52:12.362 --> 00:52:13.543
and,

00:52:13.623 --> 00:52:14.925
and just as just because something's

00:52:14.965 --> 00:52:16.166
P to P and just because

00:52:16.186 --> 00:52:17.788
something might be quite

00:52:17.827 --> 00:52:19.829
small value doesn't

00:52:19.849 --> 00:52:20.690
suddenly mean blockchain is

00:52:20.710 --> 00:52:21.451
going to solve it because

00:52:21.951 --> 00:52:22.791
blockchains cost of

00:52:22.831 --> 00:52:24.873
transmission is quite high.

00:52:25.673 --> 00:52:26.554
And there's a whole bunch of

00:52:26.594 --> 00:52:28.096
other assumptions that come with it.

00:52:28.175 --> 00:52:28.797
What you're really talking

00:52:28.817 --> 00:52:30.057
about is payments at that point.

00:52:30.358 --> 00:52:31.159
And you're like, again,

00:52:31.518 --> 00:52:32.199
people have been trying to

00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:33.701
solve micropayments for.

00:52:34.762 --> 00:52:35.842
Forty years since,

00:52:35.902 --> 00:52:37.003
since the internet came along.

00:52:38.438 --> 00:52:39.539
And we might solve that,

00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:41.760
but it's maybe not going to

00:52:41.780 --> 00:52:42.501
be with a blockchain.

00:52:42.601 --> 00:52:43.382
I don't know.

00:52:43.402 --> 00:52:43.601
I mean,

00:52:43.942 --> 00:52:45.663
I'm betting it is going to involve

00:52:45.682 --> 00:52:46.483
a blockchain in some way.

00:52:46.503 --> 00:52:46.824
Otherwise,

00:52:46.983 --> 00:52:48.083
I wouldn't be working on

00:52:48.985 --> 00:52:50.005
blockchains and payments.

00:52:50.146 --> 00:52:52.327
But it's by no means a given

00:52:52.367 --> 00:52:53.007
because you can just do it

00:52:53.027 --> 00:52:54.367
with a fucking normal database.

00:52:55.047 --> 00:52:55.969
By no means a given.

00:52:56.840 --> 00:52:58.139
yeah exactly because all of

00:52:58.159 --> 00:52:59.019
the people you need on

00:52:59.059 --> 00:53:00.201
board to make the fucking

00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:01.681
thing work they're all

00:53:01.701 --> 00:53:03.061
running postgres or

00:53:03.101 --> 00:53:04.242
cassandra or whatever and

00:53:04.262 --> 00:53:05.362
they're kind of like well

00:53:05.382 --> 00:53:07.842
you know yeah maybe a

00:53:07.862 --> 00:53:08.922
blockchain could work in

00:53:08.961 --> 00:53:11.202
here somewhere but like is

00:53:11.242 --> 00:53:12.202
it really necessary and

00:53:12.222 --> 00:53:13.302
you're like no probably not

00:53:13.342 --> 00:53:15.503
no probably not and not one

00:53:15.523 --> 00:53:16.603
that anybody needs to ever

00:53:16.623 --> 00:53:18.043
know is a blockchain anyway

00:53:18.123 --> 00:53:20.005
so right that's probably

00:53:20.045 --> 00:53:21.385
more likely right yeah

00:53:22.905 --> 00:53:24.407
Like it is, but nobody knows it.

00:53:25.849 --> 00:53:27.570
Or it's just repackaged into

00:53:27.610 --> 00:53:28.411
something else that doesn't

00:53:28.431 --> 00:53:29.931
have this connotation or a

00:53:29.972 --> 00:53:31.673
connotation or like some sort of,

00:53:32.233 --> 00:53:32.454
you know.

00:53:33.836 --> 00:53:34.617
Is that the same thing that

00:53:34.637 --> 00:53:37.599
we use to funnel funds around from?

00:53:39.242 --> 00:53:40.583
No, it's not.

00:53:40.603 --> 00:53:43.045
We need to have, um, when we do the, uh,

00:53:43.244 --> 00:53:43.945
when, when I know we're,

00:53:43.965 --> 00:53:44.867
we're not all doing all the

00:53:44.887 --> 00:53:45.806
same conferences, uh,

00:53:45.827 --> 00:53:46.568
cause we're all going to be

00:53:46.588 --> 00:53:47.309
in different places.

00:53:47.768 --> 00:53:48.329
Although I guess,

00:53:48.389 --> 00:53:49.130
I think most of us are

00:53:49.150 --> 00:53:50.731
going to be apart from null

00:53:51.211 --> 00:53:54.135
going to be at ECC in the summer, but, um,

00:53:54.594 --> 00:53:55.715
live gamer nodes filming.

00:53:56.463 --> 00:53:56.742
Maybe.

00:53:58.545 --> 00:54:00.246
We need like a sweepstakes

00:54:00.545 --> 00:54:02.686
on each conference.

00:54:02.867 --> 00:54:04.268
First time that somebody

00:54:04.307 --> 00:54:08.431
gets pitched real estate on

00:54:08.451 --> 00:54:09.052
the blockchain.

00:54:10.333 --> 00:54:12.494
Oh, dude.

00:54:12.753 --> 00:54:13.934
It's like two seconds after

00:54:13.954 --> 00:54:14.956
you walk into a conference, isn't it?

00:54:14.976 --> 00:54:16.117
It's the first person who's

00:54:16.137 --> 00:54:17.177
standing around in a suit

00:54:17.197 --> 00:54:17.757
looking awkward.

00:54:17.838 --> 00:54:18.657
And they're like, yeah,

00:54:18.697 --> 00:54:19.378
I thought I'd come down and

00:54:19.398 --> 00:54:20.318
check out what's going on.

00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:21.840
This isn't my day job.

00:54:21.900 --> 00:54:22.880
I don't work in this industry,

00:54:22.900 --> 00:54:25.242
but I work in real estate.

00:54:25.302 --> 00:54:25.382
Yeah.

00:54:26.773 --> 00:54:28.096
Let's fractionalize real estate.

00:54:28.635 --> 00:54:29.536
Let's fractionalize real estate.

00:54:29.556 --> 00:54:31.458
You're like, uh-huh.

00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:32.199
And what would be the

00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:33.762
benefit to me as the property owner?

00:54:33.842 --> 00:54:34.822
Well, you can raise capital.

00:54:34.842 --> 00:54:36.744
Uh-huh.

00:54:36.764 --> 00:54:39.206
I couldn't do that with the bank as well.

00:54:39.768 --> 00:54:41.148
Yeah, but listen here.

00:54:41.429 --> 00:54:44.773
And you're like, uh-oh.

00:54:44.913 --> 00:54:45.853
I've asked a question.

00:54:45.914 --> 00:54:46.815
I shouldn't have asked a question.

00:54:46.835 --> 00:54:48.496
I should have immediately excused myself.

00:54:48.516 --> 00:54:49.177
Decentralized.

00:54:50.326 --> 00:54:50.545
I mean,

00:54:50.666 --> 00:54:52.847
fractionalization of assets now is

00:54:53.228 --> 00:54:54.528
the thing to do in apps, right?

00:54:55.190 --> 00:54:56.349
There's apps now for

00:54:56.389 --> 00:54:57.831
fractionalizing ownership

00:54:57.871 --> 00:55:04.235
of fucking cars for investments and art.

00:55:04.255 --> 00:55:07.878
I don't know about property, though.

00:55:07.898 --> 00:55:09.719
I don't think that one's played out yet.

00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:11.501
I do it with art.

00:55:12.942 --> 00:55:13.742
Do you?

00:55:13.983 --> 00:55:15.302
Which application do you use

00:55:15.362 --> 00:55:17.445
for purchasing your fractionalized art?

00:55:19.003 --> 00:55:21.023
I don't know if I want to say,

00:55:21.043 --> 00:55:21.744
he's going to make fun of me.

00:55:22.644 --> 00:55:22.885
Is it,

00:55:22.985 --> 00:55:24.905
is it one that's like by a

00:55:24.945 --> 00:55:26.726
particular Aussie who talks

00:55:26.746 --> 00:55:27.586
about economics?

00:55:28.806 --> 00:55:30.027
I don't, I don't think so.

00:55:30.987 --> 00:55:31.989
Mr. Economics, man.

00:55:32.028 --> 00:55:33.068
No, no, I don't think so.

00:55:33.989 --> 00:55:34.070
Oh,

00:55:34.110 --> 00:55:35.670
you think he took my economics explained?

00:55:36.170 --> 00:55:36.471
Yeah.

00:55:36.670 --> 00:55:37.951
He's always fucking shilling

00:55:37.971 --> 00:55:39.431
this fractionalized.

00:55:39.791 --> 00:55:40.612
Which one is he?

00:55:41.992 --> 00:55:42.974
I can't remember the name of it.

00:55:43.253 --> 00:55:43.414
Yeah.

00:55:44.213 --> 00:55:45.594
If you say it, I'll, I'll know.

00:55:47.795 --> 00:55:48.215
I don't remember.

00:55:51.507 --> 00:55:52.048
Let me check.

00:55:52.949 --> 00:55:53.530
I don't remember.

00:55:54.351 --> 00:55:54.771
Let me check.

00:55:54.891 --> 00:55:56.034
I have no fucking clue.

00:55:56.353 --> 00:55:59.858
I think I did it five years ago.

00:56:00.739 --> 00:56:01.340
Something like that.

00:56:01.780 --> 00:56:02.601
Five or six years ago.

00:56:03.302 --> 00:56:03.983
So nothing sold.

00:56:05.106 --> 00:56:05.885
right now it's just it's

00:56:05.947 --> 00:56:06.646
just a sink well I mean to

00:56:06.666 --> 00:56:10.849
my in my defense in my

00:56:10.889 --> 00:56:15.251
defense yes let's hear it

00:56:15.331 --> 00:56:18.853
in my defense I believe in

00:56:18.934 --> 00:56:23.155
diversification of funds and assets

00:56:24.266 --> 00:56:25.166
So like, really?

00:56:25.565 --> 00:56:26.327
Yeah, I do.

00:56:26.666 --> 00:56:28.547
And I'm, I'm not crazy on the one thing.

00:56:29.588 --> 00:56:29.768
Most,

00:56:30.487 --> 00:56:32.288
most people are all in on the one thing.

00:56:32.387 --> 00:56:33.329
I think people are listening

00:56:33.349 --> 00:56:34.489
to the show and people are doing,

00:56:34.528 --> 00:56:35.909
or at least have at least two things,

00:56:36.188 --> 00:56:36.489
right?

00:56:36.510 --> 00:56:38.349
I went all in on bug catching nets,

00:56:38.989 --> 00:56:40.231
usually local manufacturers,

00:56:40.911 --> 00:56:41.871
dogs hanging on fences.

00:56:43.871 --> 00:56:46.032
So, so that was, so I looked at,

00:56:46.132 --> 00:56:46.773
I looked at a lot of

00:56:46.793 --> 00:56:47.572
different areas that had

00:56:47.612 --> 00:56:49.193
diversification in terms of assets.

00:56:49.472 --> 00:56:50.893
And what that one came up as

00:56:50.934 --> 00:56:51.893
something that, that,

00:56:52.489 --> 00:56:53.789
that was, it's, I don't have a lot,

00:56:53.809 --> 00:56:54.530
like it's very small.

00:56:55.010 --> 00:56:56.291
So, but it was like one of those things.

00:56:56.311 --> 00:56:56.972
It's like, Oh, what the hell?

00:56:56.992 --> 00:56:57.371
Let's try it.

00:56:57.411 --> 00:56:57.952
Like it's a good

00:56:57.992 --> 00:56:58.972
diversification of assets.

00:56:58.992 --> 00:57:00.132
So real estate's one of those, right?

00:57:00.172 --> 00:57:01.293
Obviously, uh,

00:57:01.333 --> 00:57:02.074
which is probably the best

00:57:02.114 --> 00:57:02.755
of all of those.

00:57:03.735 --> 00:57:05.215
Um, and then the market,

00:57:05.255 --> 00:57:05.677
obviously with

00:57:05.697 --> 00:57:06.896
diversification there and then,

00:57:07.257 --> 00:57:08.177
and then blockchain.

00:57:08.217 --> 00:57:09.798
And then what else is there?

00:57:09.978 --> 00:57:10.719
Like there's some other

00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:11.380
things out there too,

00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:11.960
because I've talked to

00:57:11.980 --> 00:57:12.721
Schultz about this too,

00:57:12.740 --> 00:57:13.360
but there's other things

00:57:13.420 --> 00:57:14.061
out there that are other

00:57:14.101 --> 00:57:15.742
vehicles that do exist.

00:57:16.503 --> 00:57:16.663
Um,

00:57:17.391 --> 00:57:18.273
And all of those are good

00:57:18.313 --> 00:57:19.934
for... There's a bunch of those.

00:57:20.536 --> 00:57:21.538
Precious metals?

00:57:22.338 --> 00:57:22.878
Not so much that,

00:57:22.898 --> 00:57:27.005
but there is... Another one that's around,

00:57:27.164 --> 00:57:27.806
which exists,

00:57:28.005 --> 00:57:31.311
is there's larger funds that

00:57:31.351 --> 00:57:32.733
exist that...

00:57:34.422 --> 00:57:36.505
that might have assets in

00:57:36.686 --> 00:57:38.268
apartments or large

00:57:38.509 --> 00:57:40.550
commercial or apartment,

00:57:40.612 --> 00:57:42.052
like not just an apartment building,

00:57:42.074 --> 00:57:43.835
but like hundreds of apartment buildings.

00:57:43.856 --> 00:57:44.036
Right.

00:57:44.757 --> 00:57:45.038
Um,

00:57:45.077 --> 00:57:46.418
self-storage is a big one here in the U

00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:48.222
S it's a huge market around that.

00:57:48.601 --> 00:57:49.961
And so you have equity firms

00:57:49.981 --> 00:57:53.023
that buy fuck tons of real estate,

00:57:53.123 --> 00:57:54.224
like self storage, right?

00:57:54.284 --> 00:57:54.923
So say there's,

00:57:54.983 --> 00:57:55.804
there's a few of them in

00:57:55.824 --> 00:57:56.644
the U S that might own.

00:57:56.985 --> 00:57:57.824
Fifty percent of the self

00:57:57.844 --> 00:57:59.485
storage in the U S okay.

00:57:59.905 --> 00:58:00.166
So,

00:58:00.887 --> 00:58:02.146
which means they have hundreds of

00:58:02.206 --> 00:58:04.307
millions and like millions of that place.

00:58:04.907 --> 00:58:05.668
And then they want to have

00:58:05.708 --> 00:58:06.528
investors cause they want

00:58:06.548 --> 00:58:07.809
to go buy more self storage

00:58:07.829 --> 00:58:08.849
and they want to return to that.

00:58:09.389 --> 00:58:10.670
But they don't want a huge cap table.

00:58:11.396 --> 00:58:11.597
Right.

00:58:11.697 --> 00:58:12.436
So they'll say, hey,

00:58:12.476 --> 00:58:13.838
the minimum to invest in

00:58:13.878 --> 00:58:15.878
our fund is five million

00:58:15.958 --> 00:58:17.619
USD or it's ten million USD

00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:18.978
or it's fifty million USD.

00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:21.300
So then there's people that

00:58:21.340 --> 00:58:23.021
come up in the middle of there to say,

00:58:23.521 --> 00:58:24.420
I don't have fifty million,

00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:26.862
but I'm going to run a small fund here,

00:58:27.061 --> 00:58:27.981
which is basically just a

00:58:28.021 --> 00:58:29.523
fractional and I'm going to

00:58:29.543 --> 00:58:30.503
buy fifty million.

00:58:30.563 --> 00:58:32.864
But behind me, I'm going to have

00:58:34.032 --> 00:58:36.414
one to X number of investors, right,

00:58:36.715 --> 00:58:38.436
that are part of that fifty million.

00:58:38.576 --> 00:58:39.556
I'll handle all that.

00:58:39.996 --> 00:58:41.117
We will vote as one.

00:58:41.498 --> 00:58:42.398
It's one thing.

00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:44.440
And those groups say, OK,

00:58:44.561 --> 00:58:46.463
if you if they'll drop

00:58:46.503 --> 00:58:47.364
legal things to make sure

00:58:47.384 --> 00:58:48.244
that those none of those

00:58:48.264 --> 00:58:50.126
people have any rights,

00:58:50.146 --> 00:58:51.266
they're all fucking peons, right?

00:58:51.567 --> 00:58:52.188
They have nothing.

00:58:52.768 --> 00:58:54.088
But they do vote as one.

00:58:54.128 --> 00:58:55.630
And then if then they might

00:58:55.650 --> 00:58:56.851
have like they might have a call

00:58:57.431 --> 00:58:58.472
And they have risk of calls

00:58:58.492 --> 00:58:59.112
because sometimes they

00:58:59.132 --> 00:59:00.034
don't take all the money up front.

00:59:00.054 --> 00:59:01.193
They might take twenty percent up front.

00:59:01.213 --> 00:59:02.074
They do a call later,

00:59:02.094 --> 00:59:02.755
but maybe some of those

00:59:02.775 --> 00:59:03.815
people don't have the money later.

00:59:04.155 --> 00:59:04.675
Like there's all these

00:59:04.715 --> 00:59:05.597
issues that come in with that.

00:59:05.956 --> 00:59:06.938
Those things do exist.

00:59:07.657 --> 00:59:09.699
Perfect real world asset

00:59:09.759 --> 00:59:10.820
blockchain use cases.

00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:12.079
Fucking hundred percent.

00:59:12.240 --> 00:59:12.561
And actually,

00:59:12.581 --> 00:59:13.820
there was one there's one

00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:15.282
that launched a little bit ago.

00:59:15.983 --> 00:59:17.302
Some of the bird in its name.

00:59:17.844 --> 00:59:18.784
Remember, do you guys remember that?

00:59:20.965 --> 00:59:21.925
Sparrow something that

00:59:21.985 --> 00:59:23.206
comments know what that one is.

00:59:25.690 --> 00:59:26.510
And they were doing,

00:59:26.989 --> 00:59:28.110
not in those exact use cases,

00:59:28.130 --> 00:59:30.211
but they were doing loans, I think.

00:59:32.413 --> 00:59:35.034
What does a blockchain add to, like,

00:59:36.014 --> 00:59:36.815
the example you've just

00:59:36.835 --> 00:59:37.835
given where they go, like, right,

00:59:38.195 --> 00:59:38.835
we're going to buy fifty

00:59:38.875 --> 00:59:39.596
million dollars worth.

00:59:39.615 --> 00:59:40.255
Yeah.

00:59:40.275 --> 00:59:40.996
We'll organize it.

00:59:41.255 --> 00:59:43.097
Yeah.

00:59:43.197 --> 00:59:46.639
Other than being able to

00:59:46.699 --> 00:59:48.780
potentially just wash your hands.

00:59:49.990 --> 00:59:51.391
I'll tell you exactly.

00:59:52.431 --> 00:59:53.072
Yeah,

00:59:53.092 --> 00:59:55.213
the visibility from my perspective is

00:59:55.753 --> 00:59:59.496
I might receive, I might have a contract.

00:59:59.677 --> 01:00:00.396
I might have an agreement.

01:00:00.757 --> 01:00:01.978
I might have a place to send funds.

01:00:02.237 --> 01:00:03.458
I might receive quarterly updates.

01:00:03.659 --> 01:00:04.960
I might receive quarterly dividends.

01:00:05.860 --> 01:00:06.860
I might get Excel

01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:08.282
spreadsheets over and over

01:00:08.322 --> 01:00:09.782
and over of percentage ownership.

01:00:10.342 --> 01:00:12.224
How much funds actually came into that,

01:00:12.545 --> 01:00:14.166
came back from that fund

01:00:14.226 --> 01:00:16.567
down to the LLC and how

01:00:16.586 --> 01:00:17.327
that get distributed.

01:00:17.788 --> 01:00:19.728
I'm trusting a hundred percent of that.

01:00:21.811 --> 01:00:22.612
I see excels.

01:00:22.791 --> 01:00:23.771
I have no way of validating that.

01:00:24.072 --> 01:00:24.273
I can.

01:00:24.612 --> 01:00:25.713
Do I see the payment coming in?

01:00:25.893 --> 01:00:26.833
I don't see the payment coming in.

01:00:27.393 --> 01:00:28.673
Do I do I know I have point

01:00:28.893 --> 01:00:30.393
zero zero two four percent?

01:00:30.833 --> 01:00:31.233
Maybe.

01:00:32.233 --> 01:00:33.894
Maybe I'm trusting that.

01:00:34.375 --> 01:00:36.735
So so from an investor perspective.

01:00:37.414 --> 01:00:39.056
And do I know that my money

01:00:39.115 --> 01:00:39.715
made it out there?

01:00:39.755 --> 01:00:41.275
Do I know they pulled one hundred percent?

01:00:41.416 --> 01:00:42.936
I get told those things.

01:00:42.976 --> 01:00:44.956
Do I see that information?

01:00:45.016 --> 01:00:46.257
No, I don't see that information.

01:00:46.556 --> 01:00:46.677
Right.

01:00:46.836 --> 01:00:48.657
Like I I get reports back.

01:00:49.365 --> 01:00:51.768
But all of that, there's fraud.

01:00:52.728 --> 01:00:53.510
And the reason these things are,

01:00:53.809 --> 01:00:54.990
they're pretty heavily regulated too,

01:00:55.030 --> 01:00:56.932
because the ability to

01:00:57.052 --> 01:00:58.253
fraud in those situations

01:00:58.393 --> 01:00:59.614
is pretty fucking large.

01:01:00.516 --> 01:01:02.496
Like if Noel and I came up

01:01:02.516 --> 01:01:03.018
and we want to make

01:01:03.057 --> 01:01:04.960
something to go to these firms, say, hey,

01:01:04.980 --> 01:01:05.739
we're going to pull in, you know,

01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:08.081
a two hundred fifty people

01:01:08.101 --> 01:01:08.943
and we're going to try to

01:01:08.983 --> 01:01:10.003
raise ten million dollars

01:01:10.043 --> 01:01:11.405
or twenty million dollars put into this.

01:01:11.905 --> 01:01:13.447
Could we raise more than that?

01:01:13.646 --> 01:01:16.909
Could we could we could we say that

01:01:17.090 --> 01:01:18.510
that that firm only wants a

01:01:18.550 --> 01:01:19.990
call of fifty percent so so

01:01:20.090 --> 01:01:20.791
no and I take the other

01:01:20.831 --> 01:01:21.472
fifty percent and put it

01:01:21.492 --> 01:01:23.012
into something else and

01:01:23.052 --> 01:01:24.853
just hope that it works out

01:01:24.932 --> 01:01:26.213
and earn the interest off

01:01:26.233 --> 01:01:27.434
that like crazy then take

01:01:27.474 --> 01:01:28.333
that money and when the

01:01:28.373 --> 01:01:29.315
call comes in just pay it

01:01:29.355 --> 01:01:30.215
off as much as well as we

01:01:30.235 --> 01:01:31.976
can or or go raise another

01:01:32.036 --> 01:01:33.416
fund to go pay that there's

01:01:33.436 --> 01:01:35.016
like tons of opportunities

01:01:35.036 --> 01:01:35.998
for fraud in this situation

01:01:36.498 --> 01:01:39.139
so that ability for for one

01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:40.318
of those groups to be able

01:01:40.338 --> 01:01:41.340
to go raise a huge amount

01:01:41.360 --> 01:01:43.601
of money to go you know do

01:01:43.641 --> 01:01:44.400
capitalistic type

01:01:45.269 --> 01:01:46.630
but to have individuals

01:01:46.670 --> 01:01:48.833
participate in that and not go through,

01:01:50.255 --> 01:01:51.056
and from that perspective,

01:01:51.777 --> 01:01:52.458
if that group wanted to

01:01:52.478 --> 01:01:53.579
raise two and fifty million dollars,

01:01:54.887 --> 01:01:56.588
If it was better structured,

01:01:57.230 --> 01:01:59.590
they wouldn't need only ten investors.

01:01:59.650 --> 01:02:01.371
Like they could do more with

01:02:01.711 --> 01:02:02.753
more individuals in those

01:02:02.773 --> 01:02:04.052
situations and those types of things.

01:02:04.494 --> 01:02:05.713
So I think that for part of

01:02:05.855 --> 01:02:08.115
RWAs and that idea of being

01:02:08.155 --> 01:02:09.577
able to take previously

01:02:11.478 --> 01:02:13.739
unobtainable investment or

01:02:13.878 --> 01:02:15.619
buying opportunities and

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:17.121
open up that to a larger

01:02:17.161 --> 01:02:18.862
market is pretty cool.

01:02:19.556 --> 01:02:20.456
That part is pretty cool.

01:02:20.516 --> 01:02:21.157
That part I get.

01:02:21.637 --> 01:02:24.338
And is blockchain the only answer to that?

01:02:24.398 --> 01:02:25.079
No, it's not.

01:02:26.119 --> 01:02:27.300
Just like your payment situation.

01:02:27.579 --> 01:02:29.041
Is it does it kind of fit

01:02:29.061 --> 01:02:29.760
the mold a little bit?

01:02:29.860 --> 01:02:31.141
Yeah, if it's a little bit like.

01:02:32.722 --> 01:02:33.503
It kind of works,

01:02:33.963 --> 01:02:34.563
I'm trying to what the hell

01:02:34.583 --> 01:02:36.523
that name was like Sparrow or some shit.

01:02:37.972 --> 01:02:38.652
Somebody tried this.

01:02:38.672 --> 01:02:39.693
It was a couple years ago,

01:02:39.972 --> 01:02:41.193
and then I applied for it,

01:02:41.233 --> 01:02:42.715
and then they said no.

01:02:45.376 --> 01:02:45.896
I forget why.

01:02:45.916 --> 01:02:47.697
I don't know why.

01:02:48.018 --> 01:02:48.818
They wanted more information

01:02:48.838 --> 01:02:49.518
I was willing to give or

01:02:49.539 --> 01:02:52.139
something like that.

01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:53.021
I forget what the hell it was.

01:02:53.061 --> 01:02:54.400
It's not Sparrow.

01:02:54.702 --> 01:02:55.782
It's some fucking bird, though.

01:02:55.922 --> 01:02:57.563
I'll find it and put it in the show notes.

01:02:58.003 --> 01:02:59.344
But it's actually pretty cool.

01:02:59.364 --> 01:03:00.364
But I think they started...

01:03:00.885 --> 01:03:02.166
They were working up towards this,

01:03:02.206 --> 01:03:03.407
and I think they started with like...

01:03:04.527 --> 01:03:04.746
Um,

01:03:05.086 --> 01:03:06.347
they were starting with like micro

01:03:06.407 --> 01:03:08.248
loans type of thing,

01:03:08.949 --> 01:03:10.929
like somewhere it wasn't micro,

01:03:10.949 --> 01:03:12.710
it was like under fifty thousand USD.

01:03:13.731 --> 01:03:15.851
And, um,

01:03:15.871 --> 01:03:17.251
with terms and then people repaid

01:03:17.271 --> 01:03:17.952
the loan and then it came

01:03:17.972 --> 01:03:19.652
back to the chain, something like that.

01:03:19.672 --> 01:03:20.893
It was I forget what the hell it was.

01:03:21.094 --> 01:03:21.753
It was actually it was

01:03:21.813 --> 01:03:22.373
actually pretty cool.

01:03:22.454 --> 01:03:23.514
I just never, never did it.

01:03:24.135 --> 01:03:25.255
It was really I think they

01:03:25.275 --> 01:03:26.275
were really well funded, too.

01:03:31.077 --> 01:03:34.340
Anyway, that, that I can, I can, yeah,

01:03:35.221 --> 01:03:35.842
I can see that.

01:03:42.527 --> 01:03:43.708
It's again, it's just,

01:03:44.748 --> 01:03:45.228
there's nothing

01:03:45.309 --> 01:03:47.391
specifically block blockchain around it.

01:03:47.431 --> 01:03:51.894
That, that is, it's a good tool for that.

01:03:51.934 --> 01:03:52.315
That's all.

01:03:53.036 --> 01:03:55.978
That's it.

01:03:56.858 --> 01:03:57.298
That's all it is.

01:03:57.318 --> 01:03:58.039
It's like refi.

01:03:58.059 --> 01:03:58.679
It's adjacent.

01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:00.481
It's adjacent to a good tool for it.

01:04:00.501 --> 01:04:00.782
Isn't that?

01:04:02.230 --> 01:04:04.490
it is I mean they're like

01:04:04.530 --> 01:04:05.771
none of the current well I

01:04:05.791 --> 01:04:07.353
mean well I guess you can

01:04:07.373 --> 01:04:08.112
just write whatever you

01:04:08.132 --> 01:04:11.135
want right what you what

01:04:11.175 --> 01:04:13.896
you re what you kind of really want