WEBVTT

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whatever man

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decentralization like fucking

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yeah I guess they've got to

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like they've got to analyze

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something right and there's

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a market for analyzing that

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limited range of some

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things but most of the

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things that are being

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analyzed aren't exactly

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like I don't know they're

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not fucking big

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decentralized they're not big uh

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They're not really big on

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moving the needle on decentralization.

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They're certainly not big

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differentiators for one

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validator versus another half the time,

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as far as I can tell, anyway.

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It seems like a load of bullshit to me,

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but...

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Hello and welcome to Game of Nodes,

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a weekly podcast from

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independent validated teams.

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Is it, when is Thanksgiving?

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We're down two members due

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to the turkey fucking holiday.

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I assume you,

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no you don't fuck the turkey do you,

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you cook the turkey.

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Well it must be soon.

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This week I assume, right?

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This Sunday?

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Is it always on a Sunday or

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is it in the middle of the week?

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I honestly couldn't give you.

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I couldn't tell you.

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I'm looking it up.

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It's unconfirmed still.

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Why not just give me a date?

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No, straight into the history.

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Okay.

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A little D in the chat says

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it is tomorrow.

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First Sunday in October.

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Yeah, I was going to say,

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we're not in October, man.

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Fourth Thursday in November.

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Fourth Thursday in November,

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that is indeed,

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as the chat has pointed out,

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that is tomorrow.

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Happy days.

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Yeah,

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so Serp has taken the family on a holiday,

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so he's off having a good time.

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And Schiltz is preparing the turkey.

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Stuffing it.

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Yeah.

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Legit.

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I mean,

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there must be a lot involved with

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this food preparation if it's like,

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you know,

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shirking the responsibilities

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to- I think it's like Christmas.

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It's like Christmas, isn't it?

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I've never done like a

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Christmas thing where you spend like,

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I don't know,

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a day preparing all this stuff.

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yeah uh I mean I have

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obviously um but like I

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think I would be more like

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See, we've only recently gotten a house.

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So that's a requisite to do a Christmas,

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to bring people into it.

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Well, we need a family, right?

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Yeah, exactly.

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But you need a house for it, right?

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Yeah,

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but you go to somebody in your family,

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draws a short straw,

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and everybody goes to their

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place and is like, feed me.

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I brought some part of the meal.

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Now you must feed me the rest of the meal.

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So I'm really banking on

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this fucking driveway

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situation that I've got

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that's going to keep people away.

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Nice house,

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but just really banking on this driveway,

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just keeping away the people.

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They'll be like, oh,

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you want to do Christmas today?

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Then I want it to be nice

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and known that the driveway

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is incredibly shit and

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there's no parking out there.

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So...

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when people are like, you know,

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doing the straw drawing for

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where Christmas is going to be, we can go,

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oh, well,

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we would love to have everyone

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over to our place.

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And they go, well,

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it's that fucking driveway.

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Yeah, it is a bit shit, isn't it?

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I think your driveway is

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bigger than my entire street,

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having seen a picture of it.

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But, you know,

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that's just Australia for you.

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Yeah, but it's also a cliff.

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It's just vertical.

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Yeah, but, you know,

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another reaction to that would be like,

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toughen up yeah I mean I

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don't care I love it uh I

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got three and a half tons

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of car that I drive out

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with it every day go

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through four dollars of

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fuel getting out of the

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driveway we were we were

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looking for a um you know

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like a second vehicle uh

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that's smaller to get

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around with the kid in in

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in town I don't know how

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foreign of a concept that

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is to like a brit but

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judging by the huff I I

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imagine that's like

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uncommon everyone in

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australia some people have

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two cars if they have two

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jobs that are in like very

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different places but like

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that's I don't know like

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it's not wildly uncommon

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but I would say most people

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like whoever really needs

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the car in the family would

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take the car and whoever uh

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can get to where they're

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going on public transport

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de facto draws the short

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straw like I can't

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Yeah.

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Even people I know that do shift work,

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they, I can, the only,

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the only people I can think

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of that have two cars,

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they're both doctors.

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They both work at different

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hospitals and they both do shift work.

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So there's sometimes times

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when one is on a night

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shift at one hospital and

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one is on a night shift at

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another hospital.

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And if your shift is like in

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the middle of the night,

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like it's basically taxi or

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enough or taxi or yeah, basically nothing,

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even night buses, uh,

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in the city I think stop at

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three a.m something like

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that so you know you're

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shit out of luck right

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anyway but relatively

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uncommon is my feeling to

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conclude well here uh

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basically everyone and

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their kid has a car like

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the country's so fucking

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big you just need a car to get around

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Like even getting into town

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is fifteen minutes in a car.

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So it would take you like

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half the day in public transport.

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Interesting.

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How many kilometers?

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Sorry, how many miles is it to town?

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Miles?

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Yeah.

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Or kilometers.

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Like whichever one you use.

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I don't know.

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I don't know.

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Twenty?

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Twenty miles.

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Ten kilometers?

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Oh, twenty kilometers.

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No, like maybe ten kilometers.

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Okay.

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It's not that far.

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No,

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it's about... About fifteen minutes on

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a bike?

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Yeah,

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it's about fifteen minutes a car

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because the traffic's a bit shit.

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Yeah,

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I've noticed that about any built-up

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area is the bikes the same time,

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if not quicker.

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But...

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So anyway,

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my story was to do with the house,

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because we're trying to

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look for a second car,

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I kept asking everyone for

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like all-wheel drive cars

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because when it gets wet in my driveway,

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I've heard that people have

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had difficulty getting out

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of it before we got here.

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So just like, you know,

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the wheel spinning.

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So yeah,

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but apparently like all-wheel

00:07:16.925 --> 00:07:18.166
drive cars are not as

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prevalent as what I thought they were.

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I thought that was just ubiquitous now.

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No, probably not.

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I would guess that they're

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still mostly not.

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But hey, why do I don't even own one?

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Nice pause.

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Yeah.

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It just looks like you just

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fucking checked out.

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just couldn't stop thinking

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about your driveway

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honestly I just had this

00:07:46.607 --> 00:07:48.168
moment where I just like I

00:07:48.228 --> 00:07:49.189
was just like imagine

00:07:49.228 --> 00:07:50.730
having a driveway it's so

00:07:50.831 --> 00:07:52.692
big that the gradient of

00:07:52.732 --> 00:07:53.973
the driveway is an issue I

00:07:53.992 --> 00:07:55.694
was just like the idea is

00:07:55.834 --> 00:07:57.115
is pretty like a genuine

00:07:57.156 --> 00:07:58.637
jet I'm being serious when

00:07:58.656 --> 00:08:00.298
it yeah I think it probably

00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:01.119
is about the size of my

00:08:01.178 --> 00:08:02.380
street like to even have

00:08:03.021 --> 00:08:04.062
that because it must like

00:08:04.281 --> 00:08:05.083
to even have that kind of

00:08:05.103 --> 00:08:07.524
problem anyway um

00:08:09.031 --> 00:08:10.692
shit like so yeah what's so

00:08:10.711 --> 00:08:12.293
what's that what was so

00:08:12.353 --> 00:08:14.113
yeah okay so this week

00:08:14.194 --> 00:08:15.754
we're down two people um

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it's it's turkey week uh

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whatever the american

00:08:19.857 --> 00:08:20.857
technical term for it is

00:08:20.896 --> 00:08:23.819
thanksgiving time we don't

00:08:23.838 --> 00:08:25.319
really know what's involved

00:08:25.339 --> 00:08:26.100
with that presumably

00:08:26.139 --> 00:08:27.860
turkeys and stuff and happy

00:08:27.901 --> 00:08:31.083
days uh you know shout out

00:08:31.103 --> 00:08:32.602
to all of the american

00:08:32.663 --> 00:08:33.724
listeners of the podcast

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what else has been happening

00:08:37.884 --> 00:08:39.304
Tornado cash is what's been happening,

00:08:39.345 --> 00:08:39.524
right?

00:08:40.725 --> 00:08:41.005
Well,

00:08:41.046 --> 00:08:43.246
can you... Am I jumping into news too

00:08:43.287 --> 00:08:43.648
quickly?

00:08:43.668 --> 00:08:44.827
Because I think this is an

00:08:44.888 --> 00:08:49.030
interesting... No, well, do tell.

00:08:49.750 --> 00:08:51.812
What is the drama with tornado cash?

00:08:52.952 --> 00:08:55.995
So, right, with the caveat here, right,

00:08:56.034 --> 00:08:58.616
that my very fucking

00:08:58.657 --> 00:08:59.976
limited understanding of

00:09:00.157 --> 00:09:01.677
American judicial processes

00:09:01.717 --> 00:09:04.840
suggests that this is kind of a nothing,

00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:07.101
like it's the first in a long step of...

00:09:08.139 --> 00:09:09.500
things that mean something

00:09:09.541 --> 00:09:10.621
before it actually means

00:09:10.682 --> 00:09:13.623
anything but an american

00:09:13.764 --> 00:09:15.585
appeals court has ruled

00:09:15.625 --> 00:09:20.388
that the sec I want to say

00:09:20.408 --> 00:09:21.808
it's the sec but I actually

00:09:21.969 --> 00:09:23.950
don't fucking know um

00:09:23.990 --> 00:09:25.071
because I'm professional

00:09:25.150 --> 00:09:29.472
and that um was basically

00:09:29.774 --> 00:09:32.534
overreaching um with the

00:09:32.554 --> 00:09:36.258
whole tornado cash thing uh and

00:09:38.038 --> 00:09:39.080
It's basically the whole

00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:39.922
thing is super interesting,

00:09:40.523 --> 00:09:41.585
but one of the most

00:09:41.644 --> 00:09:44.250
interesting things that the court ruled

00:09:46.147 --> 00:09:46.386
Again,

00:09:47.106 --> 00:09:48.528
my understanding of American law is

00:09:48.567 --> 00:09:51.009
that this is like a minor

00:09:51.028 --> 00:09:52.428
court and all this shit

00:09:52.448 --> 00:09:53.389
needs to escalate to

00:09:53.429 --> 00:09:55.110
somewhere where it fucking matters.

00:09:56.270 --> 00:09:57.630
So, you know, whatever.

00:09:57.691 --> 00:09:58.850
But it is a judicial,

00:09:59.471 --> 00:10:01.652
it is potentially a judicial precedent.

00:10:01.712 --> 00:10:02.332
It's one of those things

00:10:02.352 --> 00:10:03.732
that will then be discussed and yada,

00:10:03.753 --> 00:10:04.133
yada, yada.

00:10:04.173 --> 00:10:05.153
So I think it's interesting, right?

00:10:06.614 --> 00:10:08.274
One of the interesting

00:10:08.294 --> 00:10:09.615
things that came out was

00:10:09.955 --> 00:10:10.855
the fact that the smart

00:10:10.895 --> 00:10:12.775
contract was deployed, I believe,

00:10:12.875 --> 00:10:14.317
as I'm not

00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:17.341
completely aware of the

00:10:17.381 --> 00:10:18.582
exact intricacies of how

00:10:18.623 --> 00:10:19.803
Toledo Cash worked but my

00:10:19.823 --> 00:10:20.644
understanding is it's

00:10:22.365 --> 00:10:24.327
deployed as a immutable

00:10:24.467 --> 00:10:28.490
smart contract and the

00:10:28.611 --> 00:10:30.552
argument was that nobody

00:10:30.592 --> 00:10:32.034
has any control over it in

00:10:32.054 --> 00:10:33.456
that situation because once

00:10:33.495 --> 00:10:34.537
it's deployed it's deployed

00:10:35.717 --> 00:10:36.619
and that's really

00:10:36.658 --> 00:10:37.259
interesting from a

00:10:37.298 --> 00:10:38.379
liability perspective

00:10:40.142 --> 00:10:41.123
because a lot of the

00:10:41.182 --> 00:10:42.744
arguments about this were not about

00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:44.041
know the freedom of the

00:10:44.181 --> 00:10:46.923
users or privacy or using

00:10:46.964 --> 00:10:47.865
mixers or anything like

00:10:47.904 --> 00:10:48.764
that a lot of it's like

00:10:48.804 --> 00:10:50.287
quite mechanical of like

00:10:50.346 --> 00:10:51.888
well nobody has liability

00:10:51.908 --> 00:10:52.548
for this was my

00:10:52.568 --> 00:10:55.272
understanding of it um so

00:10:55.292 --> 00:10:56.972
it's pretty interesting um

00:10:57.153 --> 00:10:58.434
and and obviously anything

00:10:58.495 --> 00:11:03.440
that can be used to make um

00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:06.639
techniques for obfuscation

00:11:06.739 --> 00:11:13.500
of identity more viable is

00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:14.441
a really interesting space

00:11:14.461 --> 00:11:15.821
for judicial rulings and

00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:17.902
regulation and legislation

00:11:17.922 --> 00:11:20.381
and stuff because it's such

00:11:20.402 --> 00:11:21.783
a fine and difficult line

00:11:21.802 --> 00:11:24.602
that I think has a lot of

00:11:24.623 --> 00:11:26.703
different feeling on each side, right?

00:11:26.803 --> 00:11:28.984
It's so core to the feeling

00:11:29.004 --> 00:11:29.884
around the technology.

00:11:29.964 --> 00:11:31.725
So yeah,

00:11:31.804 --> 00:11:33.105
we'll post a link in the show notes.

00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.062
Maybe somewhere with a bit more analysis,

00:11:37.123 --> 00:11:38.345
right?

00:11:38.404 --> 00:11:42.650
So, I mean, just skimming over the article,

00:11:44.273 --> 00:11:48.778
it is interesting because, I mean,

00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:49.780
this decision...

00:11:53.961 --> 00:11:56.282
So one of the main reasons

00:11:56.342 --> 00:11:59.363
that they went after

00:11:59.523 --> 00:12:00.883
Tornado Cash was to go

00:12:01.003 --> 00:12:02.323
after the technology, right?

00:12:04.083 --> 00:12:08.404
But sort of now with this decision,

00:12:09.485 --> 00:12:11.385
it's come up that... So

00:12:11.405 --> 00:12:12.105
I'll read this section.

00:12:12.125 --> 00:12:12.346
It says,

00:12:12.385 --> 00:12:13.245
the decision answers a

00:12:13.306 --> 00:12:14.586
controversial privacy

00:12:14.605 --> 00:12:15.647
debate on whether the

00:12:15.687 --> 00:12:17.386
government via sanctions list...

00:12:18.047 --> 00:12:19.107
maintained by the U.S.

00:12:19.148 --> 00:12:20.570
Treasury Department has the

00:12:20.610 --> 00:12:22.091
right to target technology

00:12:22.131 --> 00:12:23.854
because it's associated with criminals.

00:12:24.455 --> 00:12:25.535
So they're saying, you know,

00:12:25.755 --> 00:12:26.336
just because it's

00:12:26.356 --> 00:12:27.577
associated with criminals,

00:12:27.638 --> 00:12:29.620
does that... Same thing

00:12:29.660 --> 00:12:31.182
they used to say about Bitcoin, right?

00:12:31.201 --> 00:12:31.682
It's like, oh,

00:12:31.942 --> 00:12:32.943
criminals can use this to

00:12:33.004 --> 00:12:33.804
move cash around.

00:12:33.825 --> 00:12:35.006
I mean, that...

00:12:36.251 --> 00:12:37.552
yes if if everyone agrees

00:12:37.572 --> 00:12:38.452
that it's worth money then

00:12:38.493 --> 00:12:39.653
you can you can use it to

00:12:39.692 --> 00:12:41.714
move cash around right um I

00:12:41.734 --> 00:12:42.254
mean it's not really

00:12:42.313 --> 00:12:43.293
anonymous but that's

00:12:43.313 --> 00:12:43.854
they're saying that

00:12:43.953 --> 00:12:45.514
criminals use this and then

00:12:45.534 --> 00:12:46.514
they're saying well now

00:12:46.774 --> 00:12:48.575
criminals use tornado cash

00:12:48.615 --> 00:12:49.355
but if you start making

00:12:49.375 --> 00:12:50.275
that distinction that it

00:12:50.296 --> 00:12:51.615
can be used by criminals

00:12:52.096 --> 00:12:53.197
then basically everything's

00:12:53.256 --> 00:12:54.557
a fucking target criminal

00:12:54.576 --> 00:12:55.777
could use a rock to throw

00:12:55.817 --> 00:12:57.557
at a person like well

00:12:57.597 --> 00:12:59.118
criminals do use um

00:12:59.418 --> 00:13:00.359
property in the city

00:13:00.739 --> 00:13:01.678
property not in the city of

00:13:01.719 --> 00:13:02.859
london but well they

00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:03.599
probably use property in

00:13:03.619 --> 00:13:04.659
the city of london as well

00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:05.360
I should be fair but

00:13:06.792 --> 00:13:07.692
It's a common problem that

00:13:07.731 --> 00:13:09.231
people buy expensive

00:13:09.712 --> 00:13:12.533
property in London as a way

00:13:12.592 --> 00:13:15.293
of obfuscating funds.

00:13:15.354 --> 00:13:18.833
So I would imagine many

00:13:18.953 --> 00:13:20.455
other major cities and whatnot,

00:13:20.595 --> 00:13:21.495
anywhere it's valuable.

00:13:23.375 --> 00:13:24.716
It'd be interesting to see if some,

00:13:25.096 --> 00:13:26.436
so I know that like a lot

00:13:26.475 --> 00:13:27.775
of projects sort of got put

00:13:27.836 --> 00:13:29.296
on the back burner when all

00:13:29.316 --> 00:13:31.537
this tornado cash thing went down.

00:13:32.448 --> 00:13:34.149
um well I want to say a

00:13:34.210 --> 00:13:36.350
couple of years ago now um

00:13:36.390 --> 00:13:37.010
so I wonder if this

00:13:37.091 --> 00:13:38.371
overturning or revives some

00:13:38.392 --> 00:13:40.532
of those projects hey the

00:13:40.572 --> 00:13:44.494
the first ruling was like

00:13:44.553 --> 00:13:46.375
late in the year I think I

00:13:46.394 --> 00:13:47.034
think it was late in the

00:13:47.075 --> 00:13:48.176
year it was literally like

00:13:48.255 --> 00:13:49.875
almost two years um to the

00:13:49.895 --> 00:13:51.956
day right I mean not to the

00:13:51.996 --> 00:13:53.758
day maybe two years a month

00:13:53.817 --> 00:13:54.498
two years two months

00:13:54.518 --> 00:13:55.538
something like that like autumn

00:13:57.283 --> 00:13:58.104
The good news is,

00:13:58.203 --> 00:14:00.525
is that the Tornado Cash is

00:14:00.586 --> 00:14:02.866
Torn token rallied five hundred percent.

00:14:03.206 --> 00:14:03.687
Happy days.

00:14:04.628 --> 00:14:05.607
Happy days.

00:14:06.708 --> 00:14:07.469
Are we back, baby?

00:14:07.489 --> 00:14:09.789
We're back, baby.

00:14:10.309 --> 00:14:10.691
To be fair,

00:14:10.711 --> 00:14:12.191
it's one of the many indicators.

00:14:12.270 --> 00:14:14.111
It's one of the many bullish indicators,

00:14:14.493 --> 00:14:15.613
not financial advice.

00:14:16.273 --> 00:14:20.375
But yeah.

00:14:20.394 --> 00:14:22.456
So someone went to jail because of this,

00:14:22.537 --> 00:14:22.777
right?

00:14:22.817 --> 00:14:23.756
I wonder if they're going to.

00:14:24.256 --> 00:14:25.398
It was in the Netherlands, though.

00:14:26.773 --> 00:14:27.013
Oh, okay.

00:14:27.033 --> 00:14:28.073
It's nothing to do with the US.

00:14:28.715 --> 00:14:29.615
I don't think it's to do with the US.

00:14:29.654 --> 00:14:31.056
I mean, this is the thing.

00:14:31.576 --> 00:14:32.996
It's interesting it's happened in the US,

00:14:33.017 --> 00:14:34.018
but the US ain't the only

00:14:34.558 --> 00:14:37.500
player in town that wants

00:14:38.561 --> 00:14:39.481
this stuff wound up.

00:14:40.956 --> 00:14:41.296
Well, I mean,

00:14:41.336 --> 00:14:45.960
maybe this will set a precedent for,

00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:48.042
you know, action elsewhere as well.

00:14:48.942 --> 00:14:50.864
Let's hope that they get our

00:14:50.884 --> 00:14:51.684
man out of jail.

00:14:52.904 --> 00:14:55.447
Yeah, well, there's a, I mean,

00:14:55.466 --> 00:14:56.187
on the privacy thing,

00:14:56.227 --> 00:14:57.188
there's a whole bunch of

00:14:57.208 --> 00:15:01.351
things that I think are

00:15:01.371 --> 00:15:02.432
kind of understood in the

00:15:02.472 --> 00:15:03.913
privacy literature,

00:15:03.953 --> 00:15:06.495
like academic literature on the subject,

00:15:07.136 --> 00:15:07.417
that

00:15:11.321 --> 00:15:13.701
are look lawmakers have to

00:15:13.761 --> 00:15:14.922
like rule in a certain way

00:15:14.942 --> 00:15:16.621
they have to legislate and

00:15:17.503 --> 00:15:19.562
obviously like subtlety is

00:15:19.623 --> 00:15:21.083
not a necessarily a

00:15:21.124 --> 00:15:22.423
valuable quality and

00:15:22.683 --> 00:15:25.304
normative opinions and

00:15:27.004 --> 00:15:28.145
stuff like that are also

00:15:28.206 --> 00:15:30.446
not a desirable quality in

00:15:30.905 --> 00:15:34.427
law making but I think like

00:15:37.148 --> 00:15:38.388
the property that

00:15:44.038 --> 00:15:47.480
The property that there's a

00:15:47.541 --> 00:15:49.282
different context and a

00:15:49.341 --> 00:15:50.761
different argument and a

00:15:50.822 --> 00:15:54.144
different set of laws or

00:15:54.504 --> 00:15:56.605
decisions that should be

00:15:56.664 --> 00:16:00.826
made for some random degen

00:16:00.947 --> 00:16:02.048
who wants to send

00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:05.500
five dollars of bitcoin or

00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:06.881
ethereum or whatever

00:16:06.981 --> 00:16:08.142
whatever the fuck it is and

00:16:08.162 --> 00:16:09.403
wants to use tornado cash

00:16:09.423 --> 00:16:12.063
the mixer the context of

00:16:12.083 --> 00:16:14.345
that person's privacy is

00:16:15.184 --> 00:16:16.625
very very very different

00:16:16.865 --> 00:16:18.025
from somebody trying to

00:16:18.066 --> 00:16:19.466
move two hundred million

00:16:19.506 --> 00:16:20.767
dollars or something like

00:16:20.807 --> 00:16:22.388
that or you're repeatedly

00:16:22.447 --> 00:16:27.549
moving that and it's not like it's

00:16:28.631 --> 00:16:30.351
When you move a lot of cash, right,

00:16:30.432 --> 00:16:31.873
eventually somebody has to

00:16:31.893 --> 00:16:33.773
accept it to be spent, right?

00:16:33.793 --> 00:16:34.572
And that's how these things

00:16:34.592 --> 00:16:35.373
always get found, right?

00:16:35.734 --> 00:16:38.494
Even when people before

00:16:38.734 --> 00:16:40.075
on-chain analytics got as

00:16:40.115 --> 00:16:44.154
sophisticated as it is now, you know,

00:16:44.174 --> 00:16:44.855
there are still people

00:16:44.895 --> 00:16:48.936
getting busted all the time for Bitcoin,

00:16:48.956 --> 00:16:50.256
for large Bitcoin holdings,

00:16:50.277 --> 00:16:51.317
because eventually you try

00:16:51.376 --> 00:16:52.317
and do something in the

00:16:52.356 --> 00:16:53.157
real world with it.

00:16:53.517 --> 00:16:54.638
And somebody has to say, hey,

00:16:54.677 --> 00:16:55.738
where did this money come from?

00:16:57.451 --> 00:16:59.333
and there isn't a good fucking answer.

00:16:59.394 --> 00:17:01.634
So like, it's, it's a tricky one.

00:17:01.735 --> 00:17:02.296
It's a tricky one.

00:17:02.336 --> 00:17:03.576
Cause I think the,

00:17:03.596 --> 00:17:05.538
the money laundering and, uh,

00:17:05.557 --> 00:17:07.378
the money laundering and what is called,

00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:13.403
um, C C C F T, the counter finance,

00:17:13.443 --> 00:17:15.244
counterterrorism financing or whatever,

00:17:15.265 --> 00:17:16.246
and all that sort of stuff.

00:17:16.286 --> 00:17:17.767
Like I am,

00:17:17.866 --> 00:17:19.669
I can absolutely see the rationale for it,

00:17:19.709 --> 00:17:20.368
but I think it's,

00:17:20.528 --> 00:17:22.590
it's such a heavy handed instrument for,

00:17:23.811 --> 00:17:24.031
um,

00:17:24.712 --> 00:17:26.013
affecting the average end

00:17:26.134 --> 00:17:27.513
user who is not doing

00:17:27.575 --> 00:17:29.035
anything like that like

00:17:29.134 --> 00:17:30.756
it's is but it's I mean

00:17:30.776 --> 00:17:31.676
it's really fucking tough

00:17:32.277 --> 00:17:33.257
thing I do get it's like

00:17:33.297 --> 00:17:33.877
really tough thing to

00:17:33.917 --> 00:17:35.137
legislate even as I don't

00:17:35.178 --> 00:17:36.098
necessarily agree with the

00:17:36.118 --> 00:17:39.340
way that stuff is going

00:17:39.361 --> 00:17:41.221
necessarily but hey this is

00:17:41.261 --> 00:17:41.862
probably a good thing for

00:17:41.902 --> 00:17:42.902
privacy right this ruling

00:17:43.001 --> 00:17:44.242
so you know hopefully it's

00:17:44.282 --> 00:17:45.344
at some kind of a precedent

00:17:45.384 --> 00:17:46.463
or at least reopens the

00:17:47.125 --> 00:17:48.305
discussion in a more

00:17:48.325 --> 00:17:49.786
sensible way maybe don't know

00:17:51.327 --> 00:17:51.748
Possibly.

00:17:52.808 --> 00:17:53.990
Possibly.

00:17:54.089 --> 00:17:54.769
I don't know.

00:17:54.809 --> 00:17:55.109
Fuck it.

00:17:55.810 --> 00:17:56.431
Is this bullish?

00:17:56.671 --> 00:17:58.992
The main question we need to

00:17:59.053 --> 00:18:00.074
ask ourselves now,

00:18:00.153 --> 00:18:01.273
let's not worry about any

00:18:01.294 --> 00:18:03.336
of the nerd privacy bullshit.

00:18:04.336 --> 00:18:08.018
That's whatever, man.

00:18:08.618 --> 00:18:10.460
Is this bullish news?

00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:12.060
Let's keep it to the level

00:18:12.121 --> 00:18:13.082
of cutting insight and

00:18:13.122 --> 00:18:14.782
analysis that viewers and

00:18:14.823 --> 00:18:16.523
listeners come to expect a game of nodes.

00:18:16.963 --> 00:18:18.744
Is this a bullish indicator?

00:18:19.346 --> 00:18:19.865
Yes or no?

00:18:21.161 --> 00:18:21.381
Well,

00:18:21.461 --> 00:18:23.423
I think anything that is positive

00:18:23.482 --> 00:18:25.723
towards crypto is like part

00:18:25.763 --> 00:18:29.326
of the conglomerate of news

00:18:29.366 --> 00:18:31.748
that will make crypto bullish again.

00:18:32.548 --> 00:18:34.950
So I think the general

00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:39.573
consensus is bull market now for,

00:18:40.634 --> 00:18:44.416
you know, the next period.

00:18:44.457 --> 00:18:45.636
How long is a period?

00:18:45.676 --> 00:18:47.137
Six months, two years, who knows?

00:18:47.157 --> 00:18:47.959
One day.

00:18:48.019 --> 00:18:49.119
No financial advice.

00:18:51.209 --> 00:18:52.190
But I think there's like a

00:18:52.230 --> 00:18:53.529
few things stacking up now.

00:18:54.770 --> 00:18:54.990
You know,

00:18:55.030 --> 00:18:57.032
now that you've got what is

00:18:57.432 --> 00:18:58.292
potentially a

00:18:58.673 --> 00:19:00.315
crypto-friendly government

00:19:00.355 --> 00:19:04.257
in the United States and then, you know,

00:19:04.436 --> 00:19:06.397
Elon Musk having like a

00:19:06.458 --> 00:19:10.621
pretty big influence,

00:19:10.701 --> 00:19:11.540
I guess you would say,

00:19:11.601 --> 00:19:12.461
on the government at the

00:19:12.501 --> 00:19:14.163
moment in the United States.

00:19:14.182 --> 00:19:15.344
I think these are all things

00:19:15.364 --> 00:19:15.923
that are sort of,

00:19:17.916 --> 00:19:19.398
probably going to start to

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.041
be the catalyst for pushing

00:19:22.623 --> 00:19:23.944
a bull market in crypto um

00:19:24.986 --> 00:19:26.207
you're getting good news

00:19:26.247 --> 00:19:28.289
come through every so often

00:19:28.309 --> 00:19:31.574
um I guess it's all just

00:19:31.634 --> 00:19:33.355
mad like the level to which

00:19:33.596 --> 00:19:34.916
this stuff is just mad

00:19:35.018 --> 00:19:37.760
animal spirits like genuinely deranged

00:19:38.501 --> 00:19:42.184
I think the axing of Gary

00:19:42.224 --> 00:19:43.546
Gensler will be probably

00:19:44.625 --> 00:19:49.730
the real fucking signal.

00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:51.310
When he gets put to pasture,

00:19:51.411 --> 00:19:52.332
maybe that'll be the real

00:19:52.372 --> 00:19:53.553
catalyst for a bull market.

00:19:53.613 --> 00:19:55.554
Who knows?

00:19:55.634 --> 00:19:57.714
Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting.

00:20:01.657 --> 00:20:01.998
As you know,

00:20:02.078 --> 00:20:02.818
I don't really give too much

00:20:02.838 --> 00:20:04.619
for shit about any of that.

00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:05.861
People get really, really,

00:20:05.901 --> 00:20:06.842
really butthurt about

00:20:07.563 --> 00:20:11.925
People talking, what's it called?

00:20:11.965 --> 00:20:13.646
Not even talking smack about crypto,

00:20:13.666 --> 00:20:16.248
but just anybody who says

00:20:16.367 --> 00:20:18.710
anything that's in any way not like,

00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:20.750
to the moon.

00:20:22.092 --> 00:20:23.653
To the moon-o.

00:20:23.673 --> 00:20:24.472
To the moon-o.

00:20:24.673 --> 00:20:25.733
But then look at Juno.

00:20:25.753 --> 00:20:26.795
It is to the moon.

00:20:26.815 --> 00:20:27.775
Well, it was to the moon-o.

00:20:27.815 --> 00:20:30.497
It's now in the dustbin again.

00:20:32.577 --> 00:20:32.798
Yeah.

00:20:33.179 --> 00:20:33.659
Yeah, I don't know.

00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:34.538
I kind of think like...

00:20:37.228 --> 00:20:38.189
yeah it's difficult like on

00:20:38.209 --> 00:20:39.430
the one hand like obviously

00:20:39.630 --> 00:20:41.912
as validators as people who

00:20:41.932 --> 00:20:42.833
work in the space people

00:20:42.853 --> 00:20:43.894
who want to build projects

00:20:44.493 --> 00:20:46.336
like the return of positive

00:20:46.355 --> 00:20:48.018
sentiment is like a

00:20:48.077 --> 00:20:49.499
requirement when the

00:20:49.538 --> 00:20:51.461
markets are essentially

00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:55.564
built on the most insanely

00:20:55.624 --> 00:20:58.967
volatile asset um but then

00:20:59.027 --> 00:20:59.728
I guess a lot of the stuff

00:20:59.748 --> 00:21:00.628
that I'm kind of working on

00:21:00.669 --> 00:21:01.549
now is like at least

00:21:01.630 --> 00:21:03.090
conceptually like sort of

00:21:04.679 --> 00:21:05.638
doesn't really rely on its

00:21:05.719 --> 00:21:07.220
own tokens or whatever so I

00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:09.361
guess I'm like beginning to

00:21:09.381 --> 00:21:10.902
be more flippant about what

00:21:10.922 --> 00:21:12.422
the wider market is doing

00:21:12.481 --> 00:21:13.522
but adoption is always

00:21:13.542 --> 00:21:17.344
going to be a thing I

00:21:17.364 --> 00:21:21.986
suppose yeah well that's

00:21:22.806 --> 00:21:23.527
it's payments versus but

00:21:23.547 --> 00:21:24.846
then it's like kind of a

00:21:24.866 --> 00:21:25.446
different world like

00:21:25.467 --> 00:21:28.048
payments versus um like

00:21:28.067 --> 00:21:28.868
cryptocurrencies are

00:21:28.888 --> 00:21:29.489
something very very

00:21:29.528 --> 00:21:31.869
different from a payment medium they are

00:21:32.965 --> 00:21:34.326
I can't imagine any

00:21:34.426 --> 00:21:35.708
implementation at the

00:21:35.748 --> 00:21:38.128
moment of crypto and

00:21:38.169 --> 00:21:40.869
cryptocurrency being like

00:21:40.910 --> 00:21:45.432
the basis of any adopted by

00:21:45.512 --> 00:21:51.675
everyone like payments or

00:21:51.816 --> 00:21:54.517
back end for like a

00:21:54.616 --> 00:21:55.998
ubiquitous payment system.

00:21:57.662 --> 00:21:59.143
whatever that thing ends up

00:21:59.182 --> 00:22:02.244
being will be like owned by the banks.

00:22:02.684 --> 00:22:03.806
It's going to have to be staples.

00:22:03.885 --> 00:22:05.507
It's going to have to be staples because,

00:22:06.627 --> 00:22:07.469
but it won't be something

00:22:07.489 --> 00:22:08.409
that's built publicly.

00:22:08.429 --> 00:22:08.990
That's for sure.

00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:09.869
It'd be something that's

00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:13.073
built by the banks or the governments.

00:22:16.615 --> 00:22:16.714
It,

00:22:16.855 --> 00:22:18.215
we all want it to be like something

00:22:18.236 --> 00:22:20.057
that's built publicly and open source,

00:22:20.076 --> 00:22:22.038
but it will be,

00:22:23.179 --> 00:22:26.060
I think it may well be open source.

00:22:26.521 --> 00:22:26.721
Yeah.

00:22:27.682 --> 00:22:28.082
actually.

00:22:28.343 --> 00:22:29.703
So that's a place where I disagree.

00:22:29.983 --> 00:22:31.164
I think it will be open source,

00:22:31.204 --> 00:22:34.387
but I think it will not be

00:22:34.428 --> 00:22:39.893
deployed probably by

00:22:40.173 --> 00:22:41.034
anybody other than

00:22:41.614 --> 00:22:42.595
seriously regulated

00:22:42.734 --> 00:22:43.955
financial institutions.

00:22:44.757 --> 00:22:45.978
I was having a conversation

00:22:46.018 --> 00:22:47.819
in the week with somebody

00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.061
about some of the use cases

00:22:50.082 --> 00:22:50.602
and things that we're

00:22:50.622 --> 00:22:54.486
working on with future money and stuff.

00:22:55.540 --> 00:22:57.603
And I'd been having this like, well,

00:22:57.643 --> 00:22:58.363
hang on a minute,

00:22:58.423 --> 00:22:59.523
hang on a fucking second.

00:22:59.564 --> 00:22:59.744
Like,

00:22:59.865 --> 00:23:02.926
why do you need to wait for a central

00:23:02.946 --> 00:23:04.367
bank to move on the

00:23:04.407 --> 00:23:06.210
technology choices when you

00:23:06.250 --> 00:23:06.970
have stable coins?

00:23:15.276 --> 00:23:16.717
And use them as your on-ramp, right?

00:23:16.737 --> 00:23:17.278
Because you're always

00:23:17.317 --> 00:23:18.719
minting one-to-one anyway.

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:20.240
It doesn't really matter as

00:23:20.260 --> 00:23:21.701
long as you create it.

00:23:21.721 --> 00:23:24.825
Because most digital cash implementations,

00:23:25.045 --> 00:23:26.645
you have a ledger as a pure

00:23:26.746 --> 00:23:28.268
settlement layer just for a proof.

00:23:28.827 --> 00:23:29.949
It doesn't actually matter.

00:23:31.310 --> 00:23:32.692
If you or somebody else or

00:23:32.731 --> 00:23:34.532
validators or whoever, like somebody...

00:23:35.369 --> 00:23:36.270
going to have to be paid a

00:23:36.330 --> 00:23:37.832
fee for transmission and

00:23:37.912 --> 00:23:38.633
somebody is going to have

00:23:38.653 --> 00:23:39.873
to pay the gas fees of the

00:23:39.913 --> 00:23:41.315
underlying ledger right if

00:23:41.335 --> 00:23:42.474
you run that ledger you can

00:23:42.494 --> 00:23:43.516
just turn gas fees off

00:23:43.536 --> 00:23:44.477
because it doesn't matter

00:23:44.896 --> 00:23:45.978
um you can run it as a

00:23:45.998 --> 00:23:47.778
consortium ledger right no

00:23:47.798 --> 00:23:49.221
big deal if you run it on a

00:23:49.280 --> 00:23:50.020
public permissionless

00:23:50.060 --> 00:23:51.102
ledger there's still no

00:23:51.182 --> 00:23:52.442
data leakage but you could

00:23:52.462 --> 00:23:55.786
just like write it to any

00:23:55.826 --> 00:23:57.346
third-party ledger polygon

00:23:57.467 --> 00:23:58.428
of cosmos ledger

00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:01.000
near Aptos, Solana,

00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:02.161
it doesn't really matter.

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:03.480
Somebody has to pay the gas fees,

00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:04.501
but that presumably comes

00:24:04.582 --> 00:24:07.304
out of validators or node

00:24:07.344 --> 00:24:08.443
infrastructure providers

00:24:08.463 --> 00:24:10.625
who are getting fees for the transactions,

00:24:10.645 --> 00:24:10.846
right?

00:24:11.586 --> 00:24:12.086
And I was just like,

00:24:13.346 --> 00:24:14.147
how has nobody gone to

00:24:14.188 --> 00:24:15.229
market with this exact

00:24:15.249 --> 00:24:17.170
solution with a

00:24:18.190 --> 00:24:19.151
privacy-preserving

00:24:19.191 --> 00:24:21.112
technology which onboards

00:24:21.132 --> 00:24:22.492
at each end via stablecoins?

00:24:22.553 --> 00:24:24.193
Because then your regulatory

00:24:24.233 --> 00:24:26.435
burden is always going to be on the

00:24:27.742 --> 00:24:29.005
recipient of the funds right

00:24:29.045 --> 00:24:29.904
taking them out and then

00:24:29.944 --> 00:24:31.106
going to a centralized

00:24:31.146 --> 00:24:31.967
exchange right which is

00:24:31.987 --> 00:24:33.229
exactly the the situation

00:24:33.249 --> 00:24:34.789
we have right now the

00:24:34.829 --> 00:24:35.951
obvious answer right being

00:24:35.971 --> 00:24:36.932
that everybody gets super

00:24:36.991 --> 00:24:38.253
sus if the majority of your

00:24:38.273 --> 00:24:39.193
business comes through

00:24:39.494 --> 00:24:42.136
stable coins right so even

00:24:42.156 --> 00:24:43.377
if you're like a coffee

00:24:43.397 --> 00:24:44.579
shop and you accept stable

00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:46.060
coins you've got to cash

00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:47.142
them out via kraken or

00:24:47.182 --> 00:24:48.063
binance or something and

00:24:48.103 --> 00:24:49.223
your business bank is going

00:24:49.243 --> 00:24:51.967
to fucking have kittens let me tell you

00:24:53.044 --> 00:24:54.965
like validators we have this

00:24:55.007 --> 00:24:55.988
problem all the time right

00:24:56.208 --> 00:24:57.388
maybe less so for you but

00:24:57.789 --> 00:24:59.152
certainly american

00:24:59.832 --> 00:25:01.413
colleagues of ours friends

00:25:01.433 --> 00:25:02.615
of the podcast have had a

00:25:02.675 --> 00:25:03.436
lot of fun with being

00:25:03.477 --> 00:25:06.319
debanked um it's a thing

00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:07.882
that we've struggled with

00:25:07.902 --> 00:25:09.904
on a couple of occasions um

00:25:11.088 --> 00:25:11.910
And I guess that problem

00:25:11.930 --> 00:25:13.150
would become more

00:25:13.170 --> 00:25:14.211
widespread and it would

00:25:14.230 --> 00:25:15.852
become an adoption problem pretty quickly,

00:25:15.892 --> 00:25:16.132
I think,

00:25:16.172 --> 00:25:19.273
if you were trying to on-ramp and

00:25:19.294 --> 00:25:20.295
off-ramp via stables.

00:25:21.095 --> 00:25:22.016
But I was trying to work out,

00:25:22.135 --> 00:25:23.156
why has nobody done this?

00:25:23.237 --> 00:25:23.656
And anyway,

00:25:23.717 --> 00:25:24.477
so I was talking to somebody

00:25:24.497 --> 00:25:25.958
who understands the legislation,

00:25:26.858 --> 00:25:28.900
the regulatory position at the moment,

00:25:29.420 --> 00:25:30.300
a lot better than I do.

00:25:30.972 --> 00:25:32.414
And they were like, well, it's our,

00:25:33.016 --> 00:25:35.318
it's our belief, right?

00:25:35.618 --> 00:25:37.321
That as the deployers and

00:25:37.362 --> 00:25:39.605
maintainers of the infrastructure there,

00:25:39.704 --> 00:25:40.566
even if that's just a smart

00:25:40.605 --> 00:25:41.646
contract on and off ramp,

00:25:41.728 --> 00:25:42.689
and then you run your own

00:25:42.709 --> 00:25:43.509
system over here,

00:25:44.671 --> 00:25:46.374
even if you can say about your own system,

00:25:46.574 --> 00:25:48.636
we don't know, we don't care.

00:25:49.465 --> 00:25:50.787
you become the regular

00:25:50.826 --> 00:25:51.426
you're going to basically

00:25:51.446 --> 00:25:52.567
become the regulated entity

00:25:52.606 --> 00:25:54.907
that has to do the cmla aml

00:25:54.948 --> 00:25:56.929
cft stuff the the the

00:25:57.048 --> 00:25:58.189
anti-money laundering the

00:25:58.229 --> 00:25:59.289
the kyc and all that kind

00:25:59.309 --> 00:26:00.630
of stuff and that was

00:26:00.650 --> 00:26:01.270
really interesting because

00:26:01.290 --> 00:26:02.070
I thought even in the case

00:26:02.111 --> 00:26:04.551
of like um it kind of makes

00:26:04.571 --> 00:26:06.291
sense in a sense because

00:26:06.332 --> 00:26:07.972
the if you ever use circle

00:26:08.653 --> 00:26:10.314
versus just buying buying

00:26:10.354 --> 00:26:11.314
your sdc and stuff in the

00:26:11.334 --> 00:26:13.315
wild super easy to use try

00:26:13.335 --> 00:26:14.476
and use circles platform

00:26:14.496 --> 00:26:16.736
it's a fucking nightmare um

00:26:16.816 --> 00:26:18.017
it's really hard to use

00:26:19.691 --> 00:26:20.811
last time I tried to use it anyway,

00:26:21.952 --> 00:26:23.153
it was much more hassle

00:26:23.193 --> 00:26:25.496
than just using a traditional bank.

00:26:26.217 --> 00:26:27.317
And so that must be the

00:26:27.417 --> 00:26:28.038
answer is like the

00:26:28.077 --> 00:26:29.098
regulatory burden of that

00:26:29.138 --> 00:26:30.980
stable coin situation from

00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.342
a KYC perspective is still quite high.

00:26:34.103 --> 00:26:36.025
So yeah, I don't know.

00:26:36.045 --> 00:26:37.885
But this is why the tornado

00:26:37.925 --> 00:26:38.967
cash thing is like really

00:26:38.987 --> 00:26:39.807
interesting because it's

00:26:40.307 --> 00:26:40.989
literally something that's

00:26:41.009 --> 00:26:42.250
come up in the last week where

00:26:43.038 --> 00:26:43.678
you know looking at

00:26:43.698 --> 00:26:44.759
potential on and off ramps

00:26:44.798 --> 00:26:45.819
that used a blockchain in

00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:47.260
the background it was like

00:26:47.780 --> 00:26:48.621
maybe this is a solution

00:26:48.662 --> 00:26:49.642
and then people more

00:26:49.662 --> 00:26:50.323
knowledgeable than me

00:26:50.363 --> 00:26:51.762
saying no it's really not

00:26:52.403 --> 00:26:55.526
like that's a go straight

00:26:55.546 --> 00:27:00.969
to jail deployment you

00:27:00.989 --> 00:27:04.191
think like the ideal on off

00:27:04.211 --> 00:27:05.352
ramp like issuers would

00:27:05.392 --> 00:27:06.392
just be governments right

00:27:10.055 --> 00:27:11.075
yeah well probably probably

00:27:11.095 --> 00:27:11.955
central bank right

00:27:12.884 --> 00:27:13.924
Yeah, exactly,

00:27:13.984 --> 00:27:16.547
like a central bank or... Yeah, I mean,

00:27:17.048 --> 00:27:18.449
that makes the most sense, but fuck,

00:27:18.469 --> 00:27:19.269
it's going to be a long

00:27:19.328 --> 00:27:20.711
time before... Yeah, I mean,

00:27:20.931 --> 00:27:23.232
there could be... Like,

00:27:23.952 --> 00:27:25.515
the extent to which a bank

00:27:25.555 --> 00:27:28.737
of last resort is ever going to be like,

00:27:28.856 --> 00:27:29.057
yeah,

00:27:29.097 --> 00:27:33.141
we're going to take on systemic risk

00:27:33.320 --> 00:27:35.583
from a blockchain ecosystem,

00:27:35.742 --> 00:27:37.325
as well as our national economy.

00:27:40.507 --> 00:27:40.847
I don't know, I...

00:27:45.393 --> 00:27:46.393
I tend to think you're

00:27:46.413 --> 00:27:48.834
actually never going to see that actually,

00:27:49.994 --> 00:27:51.494
like in some, in some economies.

00:27:51.674 --> 00:27:52.095
Sure.

00:27:52.214 --> 00:27:53.336
But I don't think you're

00:27:53.355 --> 00:27:54.635
going to see like the

00:27:54.715 --> 00:27:56.017
European central bank do it.

00:27:56.156 --> 00:27:56.916
I don't think you're going

00:27:56.936 --> 00:27:57.957
to see the bank of England

00:27:57.977 --> 00:28:06.200
do it just from could be,

00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:06.880
I could be wrong,

00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:07.861
but like I went to a

00:28:07.901 --> 00:28:09.101
conference on systemic risk

00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:11.362
where there were central

00:28:11.382 --> 00:28:13.542
bankers presenting a little

00:28:13.563 --> 00:28:14.883
while ago and I can't

00:28:15.342 --> 00:28:17.423
I can talk about what was said,

00:28:17.462 --> 00:28:19.223
but I can't say who said it

00:28:19.243 --> 00:28:20.505
because it was chat house rules.

00:28:22.025 --> 00:28:24.467
But I would say that the mood of the room,

00:28:25.767 --> 00:28:27.448
the mood of the room was that like,

00:28:27.748 --> 00:28:28.407
because obviously it wasn't

00:28:28.428 --> 00:28:28.949
about blockchains,

00:28:28.969 --> 00:28:30.028
it was just about systemic risk.

00:28:30.589 --> 00:28:31.630
Although blockchains and

00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:32.590
stable coins and things did

00:28:32.631 --> 00:28:34.090
get lightly mentioned at a

00:28:34.111 --> 00:28:34.731
couple of points.

00:28:35.811 --> 00:28:36.732
I would say that the,

00:28:37.032 --> 00:28:37.873
the two thousand and eight

00:28:37.893 --> 00:28:40.094
financial crisis still is

00:28:40.253 --> 00:28:41.535
very at the front of,

00:28:44.352 --> 00:28:46.593
minds of of banks of last

00:28:46.633 --> 00:28:48.374
resort was my impression

00:28:48.394 --> 00:28:51.695
and especially in the UK

00:28:51.756 --> 00:28:53.877
anyway like that was where

00:28:53.917 --> 00:28:54.897
the discussion from

00:28:55.178 --> 00:28:56.618
academics and people from

00:28:56.659 --> 00:29:00.441
industry the the relative

00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:01.801
risk position of American

00:29:01.961 --> 00:29:04.784
bankers versus maybe

00:29:04.844 --> 00:29:06.825
European ones was quite different but

00:29:08.669 --> 00:29:09.368
yeah, they're still,

00:29:09.689 --> 00:29:10.390
like the risk positions

00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:12.430
they're taking are still like very, very,

00:29:12.470 --> 00:29:14.250
very, they're very, very risk averse,

00:29:14.270 --> 00:29:14.471
right?

00:29:14.570 --> 00:29:17.031
And stable coins, even stable coins is,

00:29:17.092 --> 00:29:19.752
I just, I just,

00:29:19.853 --> 00:29:22.094
I just don't see it like as a,

00:29:22.134 --> 00:29:23.474
like it's a psychological problem.

00:29:23.515 --> 00:29:26.375
It's not as much as anything else, right?

00:29:29.717 --> 00:29:29.997
Yeah.

00:29:30.037 --> 00:29:30.497
Well, I mean, if,

00:29:30.856 --> 00:29:31.417
because even if they

00:29:31.557 --> 00:29:32.438
control the infrastructure,

00:29:32.478 --> 00:29:33.897
they get out into the wild, right?

00:29:33.917 --> 00:29:34.979
That's what happens as soon

00:29:34.999 --> 00:29:35.699
as these things are in any

00:29:35.719 --> 00:29:36.479
way interoperable,

00:29:36.538 --> 00:29:37.799
which they'll probably have to be.

00:29:39.335 --> 00:29:42.276
order to work unless of

00:29:42.316 --> 00:29:43.497
course you unless of course

00:29:43.517 --> 00:29:44.317
you're talking about like

00:29:44.938 --> 00:29:45.877
they have all the

00:29:45.917 --> 00:29:46.718
infrastructure and it's a

00:29:46.738 --> 00:29:48.219
walled garden and and they

00:29:48.278 --> 00:29:49.298
never these things never

00:29:49.318 --> 00:29:50.180
get outside the walled

00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:54.201
garden in which case maybe

00:29:54.321 --> 00:29:57.383
well I think uh

00:30:00.422 --> 00:30:01.082
I think there's just a

00:30:01.122 --> 00:30:02.462
couple of different things

00:30:02.482 --> 00:30:03.343
that we're talking about.

00:30:03.603 --> 00:30:06.064
In terms of a payments and

00:30:06.144 --> 00:30:09.605
settlement situation,

00:30:09.644 --> 00:30:13.405
that's ubiquitously ubiquitous.

00:30:13.425 --> 00:30:16.267
Say businesses are using it

00:30:16.406 --> 00:30:17.406
and the government's using

00:30:17.467 --> 00:30:21.269
it and you can transfer...

00:30:22.469 --> 00:30:22.828
I don't know,

00:30:23.049 --> 00:30:24.391
a hundred bucks to your mom

00:30:24.750 --> 00:30:26.792
and know that that's going

00:30:26.813 --> 00:30:27.732
to always be a hundred

00:30:27.773 --> 00:30:29.434
bucks every day of the week, right?

00:30:29.795 --> 00:30:30.996
I think a system like that,

00:30:31.175 --> 00:30:33.738
be a walled garden.

00:30:33.798 --> 00:30:34.538
At the same time,

00:30:34.598 --> 00:30:35.640
I think there will also be

00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:40.263
like heavily used public networks as well,

00:30:42.465 --> 00:30:44.847
but that aren't trusted by like, you know,

00:30:46.028 --> 00:30:48.671
the powers that be.

00:30:50.794 --> 00:30:51.394
Does that make sense?

00:30:51.815 --> 00:30:54.276
So it's like the... Yeah.

00:30:54.395 --> 00:30:58.317
It's like... So you're kind

00:30:58.397 --> 00:30:59.459
of talking about open...

00:30:59.679 --> 00:31:01.240
You're talking about like open banking,

00:31:01.800 --> 00:31:03.421
which is... So, you know,

00:31:03.541 --> 00:31:07.284
in like a regular society,

00:31:07.324 --> 00:31:11.365
you have like your controlled banking,

00:31:11.385 --> 00:31:11.665
right?

00:31:11.685 --> 00:31:12.047
Which is...

00:31:13.270 --> 00:31:14.231
You know, you do your cash,

00:31:14.711 --> 00:31:15.712
your transfers on the

00:31:15.772 --> 00:31:17.994
Internet and all this stuff on, you know,

00:31:18.035 --> 00:31:18.855
through through the banks.

00:31:19.317 --> 00:31:19.696
So, you know,

00:31:19.737 --> 00:31:21.198
you send your your mom's bank

00:31:21.258 --> 00:31:22.179
account a hundred bucks.

00:31:22.199 --> 00:31:23.140
You know that she's got that

00:31:23.180 --> 00:31:24.240
hundred bucks all the every

00:31:24.260 --> 00:31:24.961
day of the week, right?

00:31:26.059 --> 00:31:26.840
And then you've got people

00:31:26.881 --> 00:31:27.862
walking around with cash

00:31:27.902 --> 00:31:28.741
swapping for stuff.

00:31:29.603 --> 00:31:30.463
It's the same thing.

00:31:30.523 --> 00:31:32.045
It's just in a different system, right?

00:31:32.065 --> 00:31:34.807
It's not in that banking system now.

00:31:34.866 --> 00:31:35.826
It's out in the wild.

00:31:35.866 --> 00:31:36.847
It's peer-to-peer.

00:31:36.887 --> 00:31:38.750
People are going and giving

00:31:38.769 --> 00:31:40.111
it to each other.

00:31:40.290 --> 00:31:42.092
I think you'll have the same

00:31:42.172 --> 00:31:43.553
assets in a different

00:31:43.593 --> 00:31:45.954
system where people use it differently.

00:31:46.775 --> 00:31:47.816
for what they want to use it

00:31:47.855 --> 00:31:48.836
for and then there'll be

00:31:48.916 --> 00:31:52.179
like the regulated uh

00:31:52.278 --> 00:31:53.840
business system that is the

00:31:53.881 --> 00:31:54.840
back end of all of the

00:31:54.881 --> 00:31:56.623
business and banking um and

00:31:56.663 --> 00:31:58.044
ubiquitous throughout the

00:31:58.084 --> 00:31:58.944
world though I think it'll

00:31:58.964 --> 00:32:01.145
be like you know that will

00:32:01.205 --> 00:32:02.807
bring together the world of

00:32:02.847 --> 00:32:04.328
banking rather than the

00:32:04.388 --> 00:32:06.911
siloed systems that are you

00:32:06.931 --> 00:32:07.852
know in each country or

00:32:07.872 --> 00:32:10.594
whatever I think that's

00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:20.013
utopia to be controlled it's

00:32:20.034 --> 00:32:20.914
just the idea that anybody

00:32:20.934 --> 00:32:22.115
can cooperate on that level

00:32:22.175 --> 00:32:23.896
I think is just probably

00:32:23.916 --> 00:32:25.298
not the case but I guess

00:32:25.337 --> 00:32:27.720
like the thing where you

00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:28.921
just like send your mom a

00:32:28.961 --> 00:32:30.041
hundred dollars whatever I

00:32:30.082 --> 00:32:30.942
guess that's kind of like

00:32:31.262 --> 00:32:32.343
the goal of open banking

00:32:32.403 --> 00:32:34.384
right which is that instead

00:32:34.424 --> 00:32:36.306
of doing a card transaction

00:32:36.346 --> 00:32:38.208
which is private money you

00:32:38.228 --> 00:32:39.828
will just send account to

00:32:39.888 --> 00:32:41.490
account but have

00:32:42.816 --> 00:32:44.758
Well, basically have, uh, the,

00:32:44.897 --> 00:32:46.799
the payment rails for that to even work.

00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:48.442
Cause right now it is like,

00:32:49.403 --> 00:32:50.723
it's like very sus, isn't it?

00:32:50.784 --> 00:32:51.345
That you,

00:32:51.825 --> 00:32:53.346
you have cash or you have a card

00:32:53.446 --> 00:32:55.248
probably.

00:32:55.328 --> 00:32:56.390
And there's probably your two options.

00:32:56.450 --> 00:32:56.690
Right.

00:32:58.111 --> 00:33:01.954
Um, and if you do a bank transfer,

00:33:01.994 --> 00:33:03.277
you can do obviously like

00:33:03.656 --> 00:33:04.718
maybe more money than you

00:33:04.738 --> 00:33:05.538
couldn't just cash.

00:33:06.736 --> 00:33:07.537
But it's like,

00:33:07.777 --> 00:33:09.577
there's kind of no consumer protections,

00:33:09.657 --> 00:33:09.978
number one.

00:33:09.998 --> 00:33:11.078
And number two, it's like really,

00:33:11.638 --> 00:33:12.419
it's more difficult.

00:33:12.439 --> 00:33:13.319
There's much more friction

00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:14.780
to provide that data.

00:33:15.681 --> 00:33:16.942
You know, account number,

00:33:16.961 --> 00:33:18.762
sort of number or IBAN or

00:33:18.903 --> 00:33:19.522
whatever it might be.

00:33:20.523 --> 00:33:25.126
So I think that's kind of like the,

00:33:25.146 --> 00:33:25.866
that's my understanding of

00:33:25.886 --> 00:33:27.048
the goal of open banking, right?

00:33:27.407 --> 00:33:30.470
Is to make that thing work

00:33:30.509 --> 00:33:33.290
for consumer point of sale payments.

00:33:36.153 --> 00:33:36.432
Yeah.

00:33:38.205 --> 00:33:38.385
I mean,

00:33:38.405 --> 00:33:39.606
a big hurdle that they have to get

00:33:39.686 --> 00:33:41.307
over with crypto in general

00:33:41.769 --> 00:33:45.411
still is the account

00:33:45.451 --> 00:33:47.952
security and recovery of

00:33:49.775 --> 00:33:51.715
accounts when people lose

00:33:51.776 --> 00:33:53.076
the means to access it.

00:33:53.517 --> 00:33:54.137
So, I mean,

00:33:54.417 --> 00:33:55.759
all that kind of means that

00:33:55.778 --> 00:33:56.680
there has to be a trusted

00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:57.560
third party of some

00:33:57.601 --> 00:34:03.025
description to help recover

00:34:03.045 --> 00:34:04.506
with accounts.

00:34:04.546 --> 00:34:04.625
Yeah.

00:34:07.122 --> 00:34:07.281
Yeah,

00:34:07.301 --> 00:34:08.864
I guess that's kind of like the

00:34:08.885 --> 00:34:12.389
difference between... It's

00:34:12.409 --> 00:34:16.376
back to accounts versus cash, right?

00:34:16.757 --> 00:34:18.278
If you drop five dollars in the street,

00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:21.262
it's gone.

00:34:22.204 --> 00:34:22.644
And if you...

00:34:24.849 --> 00:34:27.530
uh you know drop lose your

00:34:27.550 --> 00:34:28.731
internet banking password

00:34:28.791 --> 00:34:29.952
you call up the bank yeah

00:34:29.972 --> 00:34:30.771
you call up the bank and

00:34:30.791 --> 00:34:32.853
you go sort this out for me

00:34:32.893 --> 00:34:34.594
and they go oh why did you

00:34:34.635 --> 00:34:35.655
drop that and you go oh

00:34:35.715 --> 00:34:36.976
because I'm an idiot anyway

00:34:37.956 --> 00:34:39.177
sort it out for me and they

00:34:39.217 --> 00:34:43.059
do yeah it's different

00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:46.641
things isn't it but

00:34:47.556 --> 00:34:50.878
Either way, I don't know.

00:34:51.278 --> 00:34:51.599
Whatever.

00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:52.699
It's interesting, I think.

00:34:53.121 --> 00:34:54.021
I think the tornado cash

00:34:54.061 --> 00:34:55.362
thing continues to be

00:34:55.422 --> 00:34:56.362
interesting because

00:34:57.583 --> 00:34:58.704
inherently any solution

00:34:58.744 --> 00:35:00.306
that looks more like cash

00:35:01.027 --> 00:35:02.467
has a different privacy

00:35:02.507 --> 00:35:05.389
story and is going to be

00:35:06.311 --> 00:35:08.713
more... is going to cause

00:35:08.733 --> 00:35:10.034
more concern for a regulator,

00:35:10.094 --> 00:35:11.414
but I kind of think it has

00:35:11.454 --> 00:35:13.297
to exist in some form in

00:35:13.317 --> 00:35:14.257
the systems that we're building.

00:35:16.407 --> 00:35:17.748
It is definitely the first

00:35:17.847 --> 00:35:19.588
port of call for any exploit.

00:35:20.349 --> 00:35:23.550
You always, when you read the description,

00:35:24.291 --> 00:35:25.711
like the first thing after

00:35:26.172 --> 00:35:27.112
money is stolen,

00:35:27.291 --> 00:35:29.813
money goes to Tornado Cash.

00:35:32.775 --> 00:35:33.514
Yeah, true.

00:35:34.474 --> 00:35:35.695
Always the first port of call.

00:35:37.547 --> 00:35:38.827
It's not like, yeah,

00:35:38.867 --> 00:35:40.228
the hacker stole forty

00:35:40.268 --> 00:35:41.610
million dollars and sent it

00:35:41.650 --> 00:35:42.871
directly to his personal

00:35:42.911 --> 00:35:44.211
account at Binance.

00:35:44.893 --> 00:35:47.755
Well, yes, that is true.

00:35:51.978 --> 00:35:52.217
I mean.

00:35:54.894 --> 00:35:56.096
so something are there any

00:35:56.135 --> 00:35:57.317
other platforms out there

00:35:57.336 --> 00:35:58.458
that help criminals do

00:35:58.498 --> 00:35:59.358
business quite as

00:35:59.378 --> 00:36:02.862
effectively uh well royal

00:36:02.882 --> 00:36:04.262
bank of scotland was

00:36:04.643 --> 00:36:05.704
laundering drug cartel

00:36:05.744 --> 00:36:07.105
money wasn't it was it was

00:36:07.164 --> 00:36:08.766
either hsbc or rbs was

00:36:08.786 --> 00:36:11.168
doing that I think uh well

00:36:11.188 --> 00:36:12.889
I remember hsbc being in

00:36:12.949 --> 00:36:15.291
some hot water for uh

00:36:15.311 --> 00:36:17.092
laundering yeah the money

00:36:17.753 --> 00:36:18.855
and it wasn't like a small

00:36:18.894 --> 00:36:21.157
amount of money it was a lot of money so

00:36:22.210 --> 00:36:24.251
So knowing nothing about that case,

00:36:24.351 --> 00:36:26.112
I imagine that some

00:36:26.152 --> 00:36:27.733
relative was being held

00:36:27.793 --> 00:36:29.815
over a hot spike for years.

00:36:29.835 --> 00:36:32.155
Yeah, I don't know.

00:36:32.175 --> 00:36:33.157
I think they just did it.

00:36:34.456 --> 00:36:36.257
Just went, eh, it's good commission.

00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:37.818
Well, yeah.

00:36:37.838 --> 00:36:41.922
Honestly, I don't think it was super.

00:36:42.041 --> 00:36:42.882
Citation needed.

00:36:43.983 --> 00:36:44.882
Papa needs a new Lambo.

00:36:47.445 --> 00:36:48.606
I think it was more that

00:36:48.626 --> 00:36:50.847
than it was we got your family.

00:36:51.208 --> 00:36:51.628
Because, like,

00:36:51.648 --> 00:36:56.630
you can't be... You can't be, like,

00:36:56.670 --> 00:36:59.072
careful and... What's it called?

00:37:00.753 --> 00:37:04.173
You can't be, like, a non and a non-sus.

00:37:05.875 --> 00:37:06.094
You know,

00:37:06.135 --> 00:37:08.135
if you've revealed your identity by, like,

00:37:08.175 --> 00:37:10.036
grabbing somebody's family, that's, like,

00:37:10.615 --> 00:37:12.797
quite public and sus, right?

00:37:12.836 --> 00:37:13.518
Whereas just,

00:37:13.577 --> 00:37:16.259
like... Although I suppose it

00:37:16.278 --> 00:37:17.478
happens all the time, doesn't it,

00:37:17.498 --> 00:37:18.398
with organized crime?

00:37:18.458 --> 00:37:19.760
And they get away with it, so...

00:37:21.579 --> 00:37:23.780
yeah what is a non-sus well

00:37:25.101 --> 00:37:26.340
a non uh you want to be a

00:37:26.481 --> 00:37:30.443
non uh but without being

00:37:30.523 --> 00:37:32.304
sus right so you're just

00:37:32.344 --> 00:37:35.465
being I was I was being too

00:37:35.485 --> 00:37:36.465
lazy to say all the words

00:37:37.025 --> 00:37:39.146
so you're trying to be you

00:37:39.206 --> 00:37:40.987
you are sus right because

00:37:41.007 --> 00:37:41.947
you're you're an organized

00:37:41.987 --> 00:37:44.168
criminal or whatever but

00:37:44.188 --> 00:37:45.730
you want to be a non so you

00:37:45.809 --> 00:37:47.630
are sus but you're also a non

00:37:48.614 --> 00:37:50.396
And if you go like kidnap...

00:37:50.456 --> 00:37:52.757
Trying to masquerade as a non-sus-a-non?

00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:55.699
Well, maybe you want to be, yeah,

00:37:55.780 --> 00:37:57.702
non-sus-a-non, I guess, right?

00:37:57.822 --> 00:37:59.603
And then if you kidnap somebody's family,

00:38:00.943 --> 00:38:01.985
then, well, first of all,

00:38:02.005 --> 00:38:03.365
that person knows that

00:38:03.425 --> 00:38:04.786
pressure is being exerted

00:38:04.827 --> 00:38:06.688
on them because you've

00:38:07.108 --> 00:38:07.829
stolen their family.

00:38:10.911 --> 00:38:14.114
So as soon as you take their family,

00:38:14.153 --> 00:38:16.476
you enter into a game with them.

00:38:17.275 --> 00:38:18.376
where you're in a kind of

00:38:18.416 --> 00:38:20.797
zero sum situation with another party,

00:38:20.838 --> 00:38:21.097
right?

00:38:21.597 --> 00:38:24.780
Whereas if you just stay sus and a non,

00:38:25.420 --> 00:38:29.101
but maybe not, not sus as that situation,

00:38:31.262 --> 00:38:32.963
um,

00:38:33.023 --> 00:38:35.103
you're still just like some client of

00:38:35.164 --> 00:38:36.505
a bank trying to move some

00:38:36.545 --> 00:38:38.945
money without the situation

00:38:38.985 --> 00:38:41.047
having like escalated or whatever,

00:38:41.086 --> 00:38:44.068
you know, as Ben Davis says,

00:38:44.188 --> 00:38:45.248
organized criminals have

00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:46.969
all their paperwork in order.

00:38:48.782 --> 00:38:49.222
Good point.

00:38:50.184 --> 00:38:50.423
Yes,

00:38:51.583 --> 00:38:55.045
I can only conclude that they must do.

00:38:55.146 --> 00:38:56.947
Although, yeah, whatever.

00:38:57.527 --> 00:38:59.268
It's very like, as again,

00:39:00.909 --> 00:39:02.489
a couple of our banking

00:39:02.510 --> 00:39:03.570
providers have tried to,

00:39:06.092 --> 00:39:07.652
with varying degrees of success,

00:39:08.333 --> 00:39:09.653
debank us over the years.

00:39:10.434 --> 00:39:12.295
And you do go,

00:39:15.336 --> 00:39:17.597
everything we've filed is like,

00:39:18.652 --> 00:39:20.353
you you literally have all

00:39:20.373 --> 00:39:23.693
that information like

00:39:24.733 --> 00:39:25.835
there's not much room for

00:39:25.875 --> 00:39:27.775
hiding if we were hiding

00:39:27.894 --> 00:39:29.096
then we would be sus but I

00:39:29.115 --> 00:39:29.815
don't think we're really

00:39:29.835 --> 00:39:32.677
that sus but oh well

00:39:33.036 --> 00:39:36.057
whatever man like whatever

00:39:36.097 --> 00:39:37.599
man as validators we

00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:39.079
probably do the most boring

00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:42.920
job in crypto I don't know

00:39:43.001 --> 00:39:44.400
that's the case I think

00:39:44.420 --> 00:39:45.440
we've got the most glorious

00:39:45.481 --> 00:39:47.041
job in crypto do you think

00:39:48.693 --> 00:39:51.034
yeah it's just like you're

00:39:51.094 --> 00:39:52.474
in you're in the trenches

00:39:52.635 --> 00:39:53.576
you're in the trenches

00:39:54.195 --> 00:39:55.436
you're just making it all

00:39:55.476 --> 00:39:56.958
work you're making money

00:39:56.978 --> 00:39:58.858
you're losing money yeah I

00:39:58.938 --> 00:39:59.958
mean you're losing money

00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:01.980
you're losing money you're

00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:05.081
buying hard drives um

00:40:06.597 --> 00:40:07.657
I love being a validator.

00:40:07.717 --> 00:40:08.338
I reckon it's great.

00:40:08.418 --> 00:40:09.099
I love the people.

00:40:09.358 --> 00:40:11.701
I love waking up in the

00:40:11.721 --> 00:40:12.481
middle of the night and

00:40:12.501 --> 00:40:13.342
doing some shit on my

00:40:13.362 --> 00:40:15.403
keyboard real quick and not

00:40:15.423 --> 00:40:16.405
getting angry about it.

00:40:16.945 --> 00:40:18.606
I fucking hate the work,

00:40:18.846 --> 00:40:19.947
but I love the people.

00:40:20.307 --> 00:40:22.389
That would be my review of validation.

00:40:22.429 --> 00:40:23.769
I mean, I love some of the people.

00:40:23.889 --> 00:40:25.210
There's still dickheads that

00:40:25.711 --> 00:40:26.291
you don't like.

00:40:26.351 --> 00:40:27.612
But the people we hang out with,

00:40:28.172 --> 00:40:30.315
the teams we like and hang out with,

00:40:30.755 --> 00:40:31.516
they're all great people.

00:40:33.418 --> 00:40:35.659
you know like it's like

00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:36.458
anything really though

00:40:36.518 --> 00:40:37.478
sometimes you just real

00:40:37.539 --> 00:40:38.498
validation is just the

00:40:38.518 --> 00:40:39.340
friends you made along the

00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:41.820
way right true but it is it

00:40:41.860 --> 00:40:42.800
is a job and it is a

00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:44.001
business and sometimes you

00:40:44.021 --> 00:40:46.041
fucking hate it uh but I

00:40:46.081 --> 00:40:47.942
think for the most part I

00:40:47.961 --> 00:40:48.722
wouldn't do anything else

00:40:48.742 --> 00:40:51.623
at the moment I it's uh

00:40:51.643 --> 00:40:52.922
like I said like most of

00:40:52.943 --> 00:40:54.983
the people I actually like

00:40:55.023 --> 00:40:56.364
the work I like to learn

00:40:56.943 --> 00:40:58.664
things um and it's a

00:40:58.744 --> 00:41:01.144
constant learning opportunity um

00:41:02.092 --> 00:41:03.614
I think now we're largely

00:41:03.634 --> 00:41:04.554
back on bare metal.

00:41:04.594 --> 00:41:06.114
It's literally for me like

00:41:07.456 --> 00:41:09.396
what I was working on in twenty fourteen,

00:41:09.436 --> 00:41:11.097
which was like high volume

00:41:11.137 --> 00:41:12.798
data processing on bare metal.

00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:15.840
I'm like, am I like a young man again?

00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:16.920
And then creak.

00:41:17.081 --> 00:41:18.661
I'm like, nope, I'm not a young man again.

00:41:18.782 --> 00:41:20.181
I'm just living in a time

00:41:20.222 --> 00:41:22.063
vortex where you're fucking

00:41:22.143 --> 00:41:25.385
young as men still cycle.

00:41:26.045 --> 00:41:27.485
I think about doing exercise.

00:41:27.525 --> 00:41:28.666
I fucking start to throw up.

00:41:30.871 --> 00:41:31.190
I am.

00:41:31.612 --> 00:41:33.293
I blew out my back tire today,

00:41:33.634 --> 00:41:35.034
like had to walk,

00:41:35.215 --> 00:41:37.436
basically walk home like a fucking scrub.

00:41:37.456 --> 00:41:40.500
I thought that was like a

00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:42.001
euphemism for you shit yourself.

00:41:42.021 --> 00:41:43.141
No, no, no.

00:41:43.181 --> 00:41:44.503
Like, you know,

00:41:44.523 --> 00:41:45.364
when you know you need to

00:41:45.384 --> 00:41:46.664
do some maintenance, right?

00:41:47.025 --> 00:41:49.188
And you just put it off.

00:41:50.266 --> 00:41:51.327
Well, no, it wasn't even that.

00:41:52.487 --> 00:41:55.670
I needed new tires, right?

00:41:55.969 --> 00:41:57.090
And for some reason,

00:41:57.110 --> 00:41:58.010
there just weren't any in

00:41:58.070 --> 00:42:01.012
stock at the bike shops near me.

00:42:01.793 --> 00:42:04.554
They've got Kevlar in them to stop bottles,

00:42:04.594 --> 00:42:05.755
like broken glass and shit.

00:42:07.016 --> 00:42:09.416
And in the end, I had to order them online,

00:42:09.556 --> 00:42:10.297
and then they took a while

00:42:10.318 --> 00:42:10.898
to come or whatever,

00:42:10.918 --> 00:42:12.059
and they came in the week.

00:42:13.170 --> 00:42:14.371
I don't know if you've ever

00:42:14.391 --> 00:42:15.791
tried to get those fuckers on a bike.

00:42:15.871 --> 00:42:17.112
They're really hard to get on,

00:42:17.231 --> 00:42:18.472
the ones that are reinforced.

00:42:18.753 --> 00:42:20.333
It takes fucking ages and

00:42:20.353 --> 00:42:21.313
you cut up your hands.

00:42:21.414 --> 00:42:21.954
It's fucked.

00:42:22.869 --> 00:42:24.269
whatever, but I knew I had to do it.

00:42:24.289 --> 00:42:26.690
Uh, you know, flexible.

00:42:27.150 --> 00:42:27.311
Yeah.

00:42:27.331 --> 00:42:28.210
They're not flexible at all.

00:42:29.891 --> 00:42:29.990
Yeah.

00:42:30.010 --> 00:42:30.751
Cause they got the Kevlar

00:42:30.771 --> 00:42:31.190
and shit in them.

00:42:31.231 --> 00:42:32.411
You need to like fully

00:42:32.431 --> 00:42:33.532
fucking lever them on with

00:42:33.552 --> 00:42:34.492
like quite a lot of force

00:42:34.552 --> 00:42:36.132
and it's always a fucking shit show.

00:42:36.152 --> 00:42:36.331
Right.

00:42:37.211 --> 00:42:39.693
Um, but anyway, whatever I, I,

00:42:39.713 --> 00:42:40.273
I basically I've,

00:42:40.432 --> 00:42:41.693
I've ridden enough miles on

00:42:41.713 --> 00:42:43.554
a bike to have looked at my

00:42:43.614 --> 00:42:45.114
tires two weeks ago and gone.

00:42:45.693 --> 00:42:46.994
They're going to something

00:42:47.054 --> 00:42:47.773
bad's going to happen.

00:42:47.813 --> 00:42:48.673
I can see that they're

00:42:48.875 --> 00:42:50.695
beginning to get past their, their best.

00:42:50.715 --> 00:42:51.094
So, um,

00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:53.302
If I can order the tires,

00:42:54.724 --> 00:42:55.306
I don't even know how much

00:42:55.326 --> 00:42:56.347
it would be in Kanga bucks,

00:42:56.369 --> 00:42:56.889
probably about a hundred

00:42:56.909 --> 00:42:58.052
fifty dollars worth of tires.

00:42:59.257 --> 00:42:59.797
I don't know.

00:42:59.818 --> 00:43:00.278
They're not cheap.

00:43:00.398 --> 00:43:01.980
So you've like, you know,

00:43:02.101 --> 00:43:03.222
relatively cheap.

00:43:03.561 --> 00:43:05.063
You've worn through the belts.

00:43:05.443 --> 00:43:05.744
You know,

00:43:05.784 --> 00:43:07.065
they're going to pop at some point.

00:43:07.144 --> 00:43:08.626
Let's go for a ride down the highway.

00:43:09.306 --> 00:43:10.188
Yeah, exactly.

00:43:10.608 --> 00:43:10.969
So anyway,

00:43:11.708 --> 00:43:12.909
I finally got all the parts

00:43:12.929 --> 00:43:13.891
through like the other day,

00:43:14.231 --> 00:43:15.532
the tires and new inners

00:43:15.552 --> 00:43:16.152
and that kind of shit.

00:43:16.873 --> 00:43:18.596
And I was like, right, going to do this.

00:43:18.735 --> 00:43:21.157
But I don't have the fucking time because,

00:43:21.398 --> 00:43:22.518
you know, I get home from work,

00:43:22.699 --> 00:43:23.719
make food for little one,

00:43:23.739 --> 00:43:25.501
go pick up little one, feed little one.

00:43:26.777 --> 00:43:28.278
yeah because life is a good

00:43:28.318 --> 00:43:29.681
excuse to not do things you

00:43:29.701 --> 00:43:30.942
don't want to do yeah

00:43:31.001 --> 00:43:32.842
exactly um and then by the

00:43:32.862 --> 00:43:33.603
time you don't like shit

00:43:33.643 --> 00:43:34.184
you don't want to fuck

00:43:34.204 --> 00:43:34.925
around with a bike in the

00:43:34.965 --> 00:43:36.606
cold for two hours you

00:43:36.786 --> 00:43:37.387
because you could

00:43:37.407 --> 00:43:38.588
potentially paint a

00:43:38.949 --> 00:43:39.989
figurine or drink a beer

00:43:40.632 --> 00:43:42.293
drink a beer yeah or or you

00:43:42.313 --> 00:43:43.974
know uh it's called

00:43:44.034 --> 00:43:45.215
remastering commander you

00:43:45.235 --> 00:43:47.418
know the usual the usual

00:43:47.458 --> 00:43:49.820
shit that like whatever uh

00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:51.242
it was actually picking

00:43:51.322 --> 00:43:52.762
like it was snowing the

00:43:52.782 --> 00:43:54.244
other day here so like it

00:43:54.284 --> 00:43:55.164
is cold at the moment

00:43:55.184 --> 00:43:57.847
anyway um and fucking today

00:43:57.967 --> 00:43:59.289
like I just I knew it right

00:43:59.329 --> 00:44:00.070
so basically I got the

00:44:00.110 --> 00:44:01.291
parts the other day and I

00:44:01.351 --> 00:44:02.731
was like right saturday

00:44:02.771 --> 00:44:03.913
saturday I've got all morning

00:44:04.574 --> 00:44:05.293
We'll just get this done.

00:44:05.313 --> 00:44:06.114
We're going to switch all those.

00:44:06.134 --> 00:44:07.715
We're going to switch the brake pads.

00:44:07.894 --> 00:44:10.876
We're going to strip the bike,

00:44:11.695 --> 00:44:12.675
re-grease everything.

00:44:12.775 --> 00:44:14.077
We're in the middle of the winter, right?

00:44:14.137 --> 00:44:15.336
It's time to do the proper

00:44:15.396 --> 00:44:16.177
maintenance run.

00:44:16.817 --> 00:44:17.777
You know, as you do.

00:44:18.398 --> 00:44:19.538
Preventative maintenance.

00:44:19.858 --> 00:44:20.818
We're validators, right?

00:44:20.858 --> 00:44:22.179
We know that you don't push

00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:23.559
it off until the hard drive

00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:24.900
blows up because then it

00:44:24.940 --> 00:44:25.760
wakes you up in the middle

00:44:25.780 --> 00:44:27.300
of the night and nobody wants that,

00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:27.599
right?

00:44:28.641 --> 00:44:29.920
So anyway, I had my plan.

00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:30.701
I was like, Saturday,

00:44:31.420 --> 00:44:32.802
the bike will be okay till Saturday.

00:44:33.748 --> 00:44:36.150
course like somebody stepped

00:44:36.210 --> 00:44:36.952
out in front of me when I

00:44:36.992 --> 00:44:38.253
was cycling home and I had

00:44:38.273 --> 00:44:39.393
to like I was like

00:44:39.414 --> 00:44:40.255
basically either hit this

00:44:40.275 --> 00:44:42.836
you had to rip a skid yeah

00:44:42.856 --> 00:44:43.818
I was like either cycling

00:44:43.838 --> 00:44:45.018
to this woman or kind of do

00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:47.161
a little skid and then uh I

00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:48.240
did a little skid straight

00:44:48.260 --> 00:44:50.643
into a pothole tire

00:44:50.684 --> 00:44:51.623
slightly past that best

00:44:51.764 --> 00:44:54.065
boom I think in this

00:44:54.085 --> 00:44:55.487
scenario the woman didn't

00:44:55.568 --> 00:44:56.909
exist and you were just

00:44:57.869 --> 00:44:59.030
going back to your glory

00:44:59.050 --> 00:45:00.291
days and ripping a little skid

00:45:02.047 --> 00:45:05.050
A little skid stop at the traffic lights?

00:45:05.972 --> 00:45:06.233
Yeah.

00:45:06.293 --> 00:45:07.173
If I was doing that,

00:45:07.293 --> 00:45:08.815
I would be on the bike behind me there,

00:45:08.855 --> 00:45:09.956
which is a fixed gear,

00:45:10.117 --> 00:45:11.697
which I would be ripping

00:45:11.818 --> 00:45:15.141
mad skids on because that's

00:45:15.161 --> 00:45:15.882
safe to stop them.

00:45:16.603 --> 00:45:17.443
No brakes, baby.

00:45:18.786 --> 00:45:19.626
You just stop pedaling.

00:45:21.032 --> 00:45:22.253
well if you stop pedaling

00:45:22.452 --> 00:45:23.853
the force of the pedals and

00:45:23.893 --> 00:45:25.335
the rear wheel will throw

00:45:25.396 --> 00:45:26.317
you over the front of the

00:45:26.356 --> 00:45:27.538
bike and like kill you

00:45:27.577 --> 00:45:28.838
right so how do you stop

00:45:28.878 --> 00:45:30.159
you just whip it sideways

00:45:30.179 --> 00:45:31.460
you do a little whip you

00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:33.382
either if you're very

00:45:33.443 --> 00:45:35.525
strong you stop pedaling

00:45:35.605 --> 00:45:36.885
and you hold it and the

00:45:36.925 --> 00:45:39.407
rear wheel will stop um

00:45:40.222 --> 00:45:42.224
which that is a lot of pounds of force.

00:45:42.324 --> 00:45:43.525
I don't even lean forward in

00:45:43.565 --> 00:45:45.427
this scenario to relieve

00:45:45.467 --> 00:45:46.949
some of the lean.

00:45:47.409 --> 00:45:48.851
You would lean your arms

00:45:49.110 --> 00:45:51.753
forward to put your weight on the front.

00:45:51.893 --> 00:45:53.275
You put part of your brace

00:45:53.315 --> 00:45:54.376
on the front wheel and then

00:45:54.396 --> 00:45:55.597
you put your weight to the

00:45:55.677 --> 00:45:57.518
back to support your legs

00:45:57.539 --> 00:45:58.659
because your legs are

00:45:58.679 --> 00:45:59.782
basically going to take all

00:45:59.802 --> 00:46:01.722
of the impact of the rear wheel stopping.

00:46:02.965 --> 00:46:03.704
My question is,

00:46:03.764 --> 00:46:05.226
why does this device exist?

00:46:06.126 --> 00:46:09.947
Why doesn't it just have fucking brakes?

00:46:10.987 --> 00:46:11.786
Because once upon a time,

00:46:11.827 --> 00:46:14.307
you didn't have freewheel ratchets,

00:46:14.407 --> 00:46:14.608
right?

00:46:14.648 --> 00:46:15.827
So bikes in the early

00:46:15.867 --> 00:46:16.969
twentieth century didn't

00:46:17.009 --> 00:46:18.088
have freewheel ratchets.

00:46:18.128 --> 00:46:20.568
So they were all... If you

00:46:20.588 --> 00:46:22.650
stopped pedaling, the bike...

00:46:23.364 --> 00:46:24.106
would try and kill you.

00:46:24.565 --> 00:46:24.746
Right.

00:46:24.766 --> 00:46:26.407
So what you really used,

00:46:26.588 --> 00:46:27.668
are you saying that you

00:46:27.728 --> 00:46:29.210
have a bike from the early

00:46:29.289 --> 00:46:30.951
twentieth century in there somewhere?

00:46:30.971 --> 00:46:32.132
Is that what you're saying?

00:46:32.172 --> 00:46:32.552
Behind me?

00:46:32.572 --> 00:46:32.773
Yeah.

00:46:32.972 --> 00:46:35.275
Well, no, no, because I'm so track bikes,

00:46:35.315 --> 00:46:35.574
you know,

00:46:35.655 --> 00:46:36.755
bikes that they race on on the

00:46:36.795 --> 00:46:38.478
track like Olympics,

00:46:38.498 --> 00:46:39.157
all that kind of stuff.

00:46:39.177 --> 00:46:40.358
That's all still done with

00:46:40.398 --> 00:46:41.199
fixed gear bikes.

00:46:42.201 --> 00:46:44.702
So a lot of people, bike couriers,

00:46:45.123 --> 00:46:46.224
people who ride in the city

00:46:46.264 --> 00:46:47.804
still ride fixed gear bikes

00:46:48.425 --> 00:46:50.067
because they have no moving parts.

00:46:50.086 --> 00:46:50.847
They have literally they

00:46:50.867 --> 00:46:51.909
have literally a chain

00:46:53.277 --> 00:46:56.498
pedals and typically there's

00:46:56.518 --> 00:46:58.219
a optional front brake but

00:46:58.239 --> 00:46:59.599
like even then it doesn't

00:46:59.619 --> 00:47:00.480
really do anything and you

00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:02.420
don't use it like it's the

00:47:02.501 --> 00:47:03.501
simplest bike you can

00:47:03.541 --> 00:47:04.621
possibly own you have like

00:47:04.681 --> 00:47:08.684
a chain pedals um a chain

00:47:08.704 --> 00:47:10.465
ring and that's it and it's

00:47:10.545 --> 00:47:11.545
direct they don't have any

00:47:11.625 --> 00:47:13.005
gears at all nope

00:47:14.355 --> 00:47:17.717
so what happens like when you're, you know,

00:47:18.757 --> 00:47:19.577
I feel like you're limiting

00:47:19.617 --> 00:47:20.777
your top speed a bit there.

00:47:20.797 --> 00:47:21.938
Cause it's pretty hard to

00:47:21.978 --> 00:47:23.440
like apply the talk when you're,

00:47:23.739 --> 00:47:24.719
your legs are going really

00:47:24.739 --> 00:47:25.840
fast around in circles.

00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:26.641
Yeah.

00:47:26.721 --> 00:47:28.382
It's like an angular momentum problem.

00:47:28.402 --> 00:47:30.682
You haven't thought this through very.

00:47:31.244 --> 00:47:33.385
So if you, if you, so on a road bike,

00:47:33.465 --> 00:47:34.905
right, you can do like, you can do like,

00:47:35.565 --> 00:47:36.806
if you're feeling good,

00:47:36.907 --> 00:47:38.086
like just on your way into work.

00:47:38.126 --> 00:47:38.347
Right.

00:47:39.248 --> 00:47:39.467
Um,

00:47:40.353 --> 00:47:41.373
you've got brakes right so

00:47:41.393 --> 00:47:42.594
you can slow down and stop

00:47:42.634 --> 00:47:44.135
in maybe forty fifty meters

00:47:44.175 --> 00:47:46.916
something like that um on a

00:47:47.255 --> 00:47:48.876
on a fixed gear on a fixed

00:47:48.896 --> 00:47:49.797
gear sorry if you were

00:47:49.876 --> 00:47:51.097
cycling at forty kilometers

00:47:51.117 --> 00:47:53.798
an hour your stop your

00:47:53.838 --> 00:47:54.960
stopping distance is way

00:47:55.019 --> 00:47:56.880
longer I'm thinking about

00:47:56.940 --> 00:47:59.782
racing uh around in a

00:47:59.862 --> 00:48:01.422
circle oh right yeah you

00:48:01.443 --> 00:48:02.742
just put a massive uh you

00:48:02.762 --> 00:48:04.143
just put a massive chain ring on there

00:48:06.485 --> 00:48:08.306
So that's obviously why then

00:48:08.867 --> 00:48:10.146
all these people have got

00:48:11.007 --> 00:48:12.768
Christmas ham thighs to get

00:48:12.789 --> 00:48:13.469
that thing moving.

00:48:13.789 --> 00:48:14.670
Yeah, exactly.

00:48:15.050 --> 00:48:16.050
And remember,

00:48:16.070 --> 00:48:17.130
so because the other the

00:48:17.150 --> 00:48:18.032
other benefit of it on a

00:48:18.072 --> 00:48:19.132
track bike is it's more

00:48:19.172 --> 00:48:20.052
mechanically efficient

00:48:20.072 --> 00:48:21.213
because it's just there's no gears.

00:48:21.233 --> 00:48:22.295
It's just one one.

00:48:23.588 --> 00:48:24.789
and that saves like you know

00:48:24.809 --> 00:48:26.128
what five percent or two

00:48:26.168 --> 00:48:27.110
percent or whatever and

00:48:27.130 --> 00:48:27.690
that's the difference

00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:28.510
between winning or losing

00:48:28.530 --> 00:48:29.070
when you're talking about

00:48:29.090 --> 00:48:30.030
hundredths of a second

00:48:30.070 --> 00:48:32.231
these races are won by so

00:48:33.233 --> 00:48:34.393
so is there a lot of like

00:48:34.552 --> 00:48:38.574
per rider um tweaking to

00:48:38.614 --> 00:48:40.036
like find the sweet spot

00:48:40.076 --> 00:48:41.936
between you know what that

00:48:42.016 --> 00:48:43.657
rider can apply in terms of

00:48:43.737 --> 00:48:45.097
torque with the angular

00:48:45.117 --> 00:48:46.599
momentum of their sort of

00:48:46.659 --> 00:48:48.260
feet sort of what suits

00:48:48.300 --> 00:48:49.601
them the best you know

00:48:49.621 --> 00:48:50.780
because you got drag you

00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:52.402
got your your bike drag

00:48:52.922 --> 00:48:54.322
And you really need to have

00:48:54.664 --> 00:48:55.945
the power zone for that

00:48:55.985 --> 00:48:59.847
person where this is the

00:48:59.927 --> 00:49:03.630
peak revolutions per minute

00:49:03.650 --> 00:49:04.550
for the amount of torque

00:49:04.570 --> 00:49:06.132
that they can apply with their quads.

00:49:06.472 --> 00:49:08.034
Because the faster you go,

00:49:08.074 --> 00:49:09.235
the harder it is to get the

00:49:09.255 --> 00:49:11.036
torque down before the pedal's out.

00:49:11.056 --> 00:49:12.498
The answer to that question is yes,

00:49:12.518 --> 00:49:13.378
people spend literally

00:49:13.538 --> 00:49:15.460
millions and millions of dollars on that.

00:49:17.057 --> 00:49:17.838
For national teams,

00:49:17.980 --> 00:49:18.940
the Australian track team

00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:19.762
are pretty successful.

00:49:19.963 --> 00:49:20.923
I would guess that their

00:49:21.164 --> 00:49:22.786
annual budget on R&D and

00:49:22.827 --> 00:49:23.748
that kind of stuff is

00:49:23.788 --> 00:49:24.630
probably like ten million

00:49:24.670 --> 00:49:26.271
dollars or something like that.

00:49:26.291 --> 00:49:27.012
They must spend

00:49:28.155 --> 00:49:29.275
they these guys will have

00:49:29.594 --> 00:49:30.916
all of the track teams that

00:49:31.056 --> 00:49:32.896
win have like access to

00:49:32.936 --> 00:49:34.516
wind tunnels and like if

00:49:34.536 --> 00:49:35.275
you want to win the tour de

00:49:35.315 --> 00:49:36.797
france your team has to

00:49:36.817 --> 00:49:37.637
have access to a wind

00:49:37.677 --> 00:49:40.476
tunnel right you you will

00:49:41.438 --> 00:49:43.797
use uh every single like

00:49:44.177 --> 00:49:45.217
five percent extra

00:49:45.237 --> 00:49:46.398
efficiency one percent

00:49:46.458 --> 00:49:47.958
extra efficiency like the

00:49:48.018 --> 00:49:49.358
height of socks is

00:49:49.438 --> 00:49:50.659
regulated in professional

00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:53.079
bike racing because it turns out

00:49:53.887 --> 00:49:54.969
they in a wind tunnel

00:49:54.989 --> 00:49:55.989
they've tested this is that

00:49:56.028 --> 00:49:56.989
if you just have a sock

00:49:57.090 --> 00:49:58.010
that comes all the way up

00:49:58.030 --> 00:49:59.472
your leg it's more

00:49:59.492 --> 00:50:00.733
efficient than skin right

00:50:01.012 --> 00:50:02.253
and so the uci says well no

00:50:02.293 --> 00:50:03.313
you can't just wear massive

00:50:03.353 --> 00:50:04.474
socks you have to have like

00:50:04.494 --> 00:50:05.416
there's a maximum sock

00:50:05.456 --> 00:50:06.476
height because otherwise

00:50:06.496 --> 00:50:07.396
that's cheating that's just

00:50:07.416 --> 00:50:08.858
wearing like aerodynamic

00:50:08.978 --> 00:50:10.398
extra stuff so it all is

00:50:10.458 --> 00:50:11.840
heavily regulated so you

00:50:11.900 --> 00:50:13.581
couldn't for example have a

00:50:13.661 --> 00:50:14.942
different kind of mechanism

00:50:15.001 --> 00:50:16.262
for your for your pedal

00:50:16.302 --> 00:50:18.525
gear like you couldn't um have like a

00:50:19.505 --> 00:50:19.746
you know,

00:50:19.826 --> 00:50:21.409
an expanding gear or something

00:50:21.449 --> 00:50:23.030
that works on angular momentum.

00:50:23.050 --> 00:50:23.791
You couldn't do that.

00:50:24.192 --> 00:50:24.353
Well,

00:50:24.373 --> 00:50:26.034
so think about just the shape of the bike,

00:50:26.114 --> 00:50:26.255
right?

00:50:26.275 --> 00:50:27.036
The shape of the bike is

00:50:27.056 --> 00:50:28.398
like three triangles, isn't it?

00:50:29.130 --> 00:50:30.550
It's like the frame and then

00:50:30.570 --> 00:50:32.550
it's the rear dropouts and

00:50:32.570 --> 00:50:33.471
then two wheels.

00:50:34.112 --> 00:50:36.032
That is regulated, right?

00:50:36.132 --> 00:50:37.972
You have to have a bike that

00:50:38.032 --> 00:50:39.193
has that shape if you want

00:50:39.213 --> 00:50:40.414
to ride in the UCI.

00:50:40.793 --> 00:50:42.574
But what about the drive mechanism,

00:50:42.614 --> 00:50:43.414
like the pedals?

00:50:44.295 --> 00:50:46.396
I'm pretty certain there are

00:50:46.416 --> 00:50:47.195
a whole bunch of rules

00:50:47.235 --> 00:50:48.536
about how that has to work.

00:50:48.677 --> 00:50:49.217
It has to be...

00:50:50.177 --> 00:50:52.097
Um, you can obviously have like mechanic,

00:50:52.117 --> 00:50:53.139
you can have electronic

00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:54.639
shifting and whatever the fuck you want.

00:50:54.659 --> 00:50:55.360
And that's up to you.

00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:56.340
The reason that they use

00:50:56.460 --> 00:50:58.322
direct drive on the track

00:50:58.362 --> 00:50:59.382
is because it's more efficient.

00:50:59.702 --> 00:51:00.302
That's the reason.

00:51:00.362 --> 00:51:00.543
Right.

00:51:00.902 --> 00:51:01.724
And you're in a velodrome.

00:51:01.744 --> 00:51:03.864
So there's no, there's no hill.

00:51:04.045 --> 00:51:05.045
There's just a straight

00:51:05.065 --> 00:51:05.726
track and you're

00:51:05.766 --> 00:51:06.565
essentially riding on the

00:51:06.585 --> 00:51:07.507
flat with no wind.

00:51:08.166 --> 00:51:09.728
So are you allowed a belt drive?

00:51:11.108 --> 00:51:13.369
You probably can have a belt drive,

00:51:13.530 --> 00:51:16.811
but they are not widely

00:51:16.851 --> 00:51:18.112
manufactured or in use.

00:51:19.487 --> 00:51:19.989
I mean,

00:51:20.009 --> 00:51:21.188
if your budget's ten million

00:51:21.228 --> 00:51:21.849
dollars a year,

00:51:21.889 --> 00:51:23.110
I think you could fucking make it.

00:51:24.010 --> 00:51:24.271
Yeah,

00:51:24.291 --> 00:51:26.172
but then if it fails once at the Tour

00:51:26.192 --> 00:51:27.913
de France, your team is going to go,

00:51:28.152 --> 00:51:29.213
why the fuck did we use

00:51:29.253 --> 00:51:32.056
that one untested part when

00:51:32.096 --> 00:51:34.577
we could have just used Shimano?

00:51:34.617 --> 00:51:35.016
Well, I mean,

00:51:35.056 --> 00:51:36.097
people do that shit all the

00:51:36.137 --> 00:51:37.438
time in Formula One, right?

00:51:37.478 --> 00:51:39.179
Their teams develop stuff like,

00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:41.061
you know... That's more

00:51:41.081 --> 00:51:44.242
likely to happen in the Olympics, I think,

00:51:44.282 --> 00:51:46.224
because I think national teams, they...

00:51:47.952 --> 00:51:48.911
The national teams,

00:51:49.552 --> 00:51:50.612
they're quite often winning

00:51:50.652 --> 00:51:51.472
or losing by like a

00:51:51.532 --> 00:51:53.373
hundredth of a second on the velodrome.

00:51:53.653 --> 00:51:55.034
And so they're much more

00:51:55.054 --> 00:51:57.614
keen to try like zany ideas.

00:51:58.355 --> 00:51:59.934
Whereas like if your bike

00:51:59.974 --> 00:52:01.295
explodes halfway through,

00:52:01.335 --> 00:52:02.996
like if your bike explodes

00:52:03.036 --> 00:52:03.876
on like the velodrome in

00:52:03.896 --> 00:52:05.956
like a two or three minute sprint,

00:52:08.713 --> 00:52:10.114
You know, you look like a bit of an arse,

00:52:10.193 --> 00:52:10.393
right?

00:52:10.414 --> 00:52:11.235
And you have to explain to

00:52:11.255 --> 00:52:13.755
the Australian sports papers, oh yeah,

00:52:13.775 --> 00:52:15.317
we thought that we were going to smash it,

00:52:15.356 --> 00:52:17.099
but then the bike exploded and people go,

00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:18.599
oh, that's a bit of a bummer.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:19.900
If you lose the Tour de

00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:21.802
France on stage like,

00:52:21.842 --> 00:52:22.981
because a hundred and ten

00:52:23.001 --> 00:52:24.023
kilometers into a two

00:52:24.043 --> 00:52:25.003
hundred kilometer stage,

00:52:25.023 --> 00:52:26.164
your bike explodes and the

00:52:26.184 --> 00:52:27.485
team car ain't there and

00:52:27.505 --> 00:52:30.166
you lose two minutes.

00:52:30.206 --> 00:52:30.387
Like,

00:52:31.068 --> 00:52:33.389
fifty million euros worth of sponsors

00:52:33.728 --> 00:52:35.010
are going to kill you.

00:52:35.030 --> 00:52:36.311
Yeah.

00:52:37.364 --> 00:52:38.525
um they're just going to

00:52:38.565 --> 00:52:39.565
defund your team they're

00:52:39.585 --> 00:52:41.505
going to be like you what

00:52:41.545 --> 00:52:42.547
your entire season is

00:52:42.606 --> 00:52:43.827
fucked because you decide

00:52:43.867 --> 00:52:46.547
to yolo it um because you

00:52:46.608 --> 00:52:47.887
wanted to make something

00:52:48.047 --> 00:52:50.248
new you asshole whereas

00:52:50.289 --> 00:52:51.349
like whereas I feel like

00:52:51.369 --> 00:52:52.769
the maybe on the national

00:52:52.809 --> 00:52:53.630
teams and stuff for the

00:52:53.650 --> 00:52:54.909
olympics they they have a

00:52:54.949 --> 00:52:56.411
lot more of a risk-taking attitude

00:52:57.190 --> 00:52:58.913
Um, and also like in the past as well,

00:52:58.952 --> 00:52:59.773
because the,

00:52:59.853 --> 00:53:01.175
the Olympics and stuff and

00:53:01.195 --> 00:53:02.135
the world championships and

00:53:02.175 --> 00:53:04.097
whatnot to a world champs

00:53:04.117 --> 00:53:04.697
to a lesser extent,

00:53:04.757 --> 00:53:05.778
cause that's a UCI race,

00:53:05.838 --> 00:53:07.920
but the rules that the UCI

00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:09.061
put down about what you

00:53:09.121 --> 00:53:10.884
could and couldn't do were very different,

00:53:11.784 --> 00:53:14.007
um, to, I think the Olympic rules.

00:53:14.527 --> 00:53:15.487
So I think you used to see

00:53:15.528 --> 00:53:16.548
like a lot more wacky

00:53:16.568 --> 00:53:18.050
looking machines at the

00:53:18.070 --> 00:53:20.572
Olympics because the rules were lighter.

00:53:20.592 --> 00:53:21.414
Um, yeah.

00:53:22.751 --> 00:53:24.192
So like, I mean, even now,

00:53:24.251 --> 00:53:25.291
I think I feel like a lot

00:53:25.311 --> 00:53:26.172
of the bikes and things you

00:53:26.193 --> 00:53:26.972
see on the velodrome,

00:53:27.012 --> 00:53:28.193
like the Olympics that just

00:53:28.213 --> 00:53:29.494
happened were pretty wacky.

00:53:31.835 --> 00:53:32.436
Because again,

00:53:32.496 --> 00:53:33.797
it doesn't have to ride on a road.

00:53:33.956 --> 00:53:36.137
So it doesn't really have to, like,

00:53:36.157 --> 00:53:37.318
you don't have to worry about like, oh,

00:53:37.338 --> 00:53:37.458
well,

00:53:37.478 --> 00:53:38.798
the tires hold up for a hundred

00:53:38.838 --> 00:53:39.940
kilometers of racing.

00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:42.101
Are they going to explode if

00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.001
they see a tiny bit of glass?

00:53:44.041 --> 00:53:45.021
Because the road's not been

00:53:45.041 --> 00:53:46.523
swept or anything, right?

00:53:46.543 --> 00:53:47.382
It's a public road.

00:53:48.123 --> 00:53:49.164
Whereas like on the velodrome, it's like,

00:53:49.184 --> 00:53:49.264
well,

00:53:49.284 --> 00:53:50.485
there's not gonna be any fucking glass.

00:53:50.625 --> 00:53:52.226
So, you know, whatever.

00:53:53.655 --> 00:53:54.835
Unless Noel's there and he's

00:53:54.896 --> 00:53:58.099
throwing... They're probably cans.

00:53:58.378 --> 00:53:59.639
Tinnies is probably more your style,

00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:00.641
right?

00:54:00.661 --> 00:54:05.045
Throwing experiments at the bikes.

00:54:05.445 --> 00:54:06.766
Maybe you should have been a

00:54:07.427 --> 00:54:08.507
mechanical aerodynamics

00:54:08.527 --> 00:54:09.409
performance coach or

00:54:09.449 --> 00:54:10.789
something like that in a different life.

00:54:11.791 --> 00:54:12.070
Well,

00:54:12.150 --> 00:54:14.713
I feel like my knowledge of

00:54:14.893 --> 00:54:17.215
engineering... I thought

00:54:17.235 --> 00:54:18.097
about this for five minutes

00:54:18.117 --> 00:54:18.876
and I reckon I could do it

00:54:18.896 --> 00:54:19.797
better than these guys that

00:54:19.818 --> 00:54:20.759
have been doing it for twenty years.

00:54:21.237 --> 00:54:22.458
Yeah, well,

00:54:22.478 --> 00:54:23.577
some people are just more

00:54:23.619 --> 00:54:24.998
mechanically minded than others.

00:54:27.521 --> 00:54:28.021
Well, there you go.

00:54:28.422 --> 00:54:35.186
Anyway, that's a very around the houses.

00:54:35.246 --> 00:54:35.826
Okay, well,

00:54:36.827 --> 00:54:38.108
why the fuck did we get onto bikes?

00:54:38.128 --> 00:54:40.429
I blew up my bike.

00:54:40.829 --> 00:54:41.590
I blew up my bike, yeah.

00:54:41.610 --> 00:54:42.891
There we go.

00:54:44.592 --> 00:54:46.594
yeah yeah uh yeah I mean I

00:54:46.614 --> 00:54:47.574
was just wondering why you

00:54:47.594 --> 00:54:48.393
had a nineteen twenties

00:54:48.454 --> 00:54:49.134
bike in your house

00:54:49.173 --> 00:54:51.034
basically so uh isn't it

00:54:51.074 --> 00:54:51.795
yeah it's not nineteen

00:54:51.815 --> 00:54:53.195
twenties it's it's a sick

00:54:53.675 --> 00:54:56.536
sick bike sick do you do

00:54:56.556 --> 00:54:57.235
you do a little bit of

00:54:57.255 --> 00:54:58.295
couriering on the side

00:54:58.976 --> 00:55:02.496
curry curry curry ring no I

00:55:02.516 --> 00:55:03.916
just used to like riding

00:55:03.956 --> 00:55:05.217
fixed and then I had a I

00:55:05.237 --> 00:55:06.237
had a kid and now I'm too

00:55:06.277 --> 00:55:07.297
scared to ride fixed

00:55:07.717 --> 00:55:08.458
because I'm a chicken

00:55:12.371 --> 00:55:14.713
got it yeah so why do you

00:55:14.753 --> 00:55:15.632
keep it around is it just

00:55:15.672 --> 00:55:17.233
like uh you know because

00:55:17.253 --> 00:55:18.594
it's something you can't

00:55:18.873 --> 00:55:19.894
can't get rid of now you're

00:55:19.914 --> 00:55:20.715
like fuck I need to keep

00:55:20.735 --> 00:55:22.835
that clutter I mean I could

00:55:22.856 --> 00:55:23.516
probably sell it for quite

00:55:23.536 --> 00:55:24.356
a bit of money it's really

00:55:24.416 --> 00:55:27.577
nice build but I can't in

00:55:27.617 --> 00:55:28.498
my heart of hearts I feel

00:55:28.518 --> 00:55:29.938
like I will I will write it

00:55:29.978 --> 00:55:31.338
again we will write again

00:55:31.418 --> 00:55:35.320
we will one day we will write again

00:55:35.961 --> 00:55:37.443
You know, I, you know,

00:55:37.463 --> 00:55:39.045
the world's paved with good intentions.

00:55:39.065 --> 00:55:41.347
There's a lot of things I want to like do,

00:55:41.367 --> 00:55:43.309
but just don't have the

00:55:43.349 --> 00:55:46.152
time or like the money or the patience.

00:55:46.652 --> 00:55:49.677
So like a decade ago,

00:55:49.836 --> 00:55:50.898
I got a pilot's license,

00:55:50.958 --> 00:55:51.539
never flew again.

00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:54.442
You would love to get back into that.

00:55:54.461 --> 00:55:54.541
Yeah.

00:55:54.561 --> 00:55:55.543
Just don't have the fucking time.

00:55:59.289 --> 00:56:00.869
like before before all of it

00:56:00.909 --> 00:56:02.050
before crypto and all that

00:56:02.070 --> 00:56:03.632
stuff um back when I was a

00:56:03.672 --> 00:56:05.873
free man uh yeah I just

00:56:05.992 --> 00:56:08.295
fucking you know I had I

00:56:08.315 --> 00:56:10.115
finished a project and a

00:56:10.175 --> 00:56:11.177
contract that I was working

00:56:11.237 --> 00:56:12.617
on and I had a few pennies

00:56:12.637 --> 00:56:13.597
in my pocket and I'm like

00:56:13.617 --> 00:56:14.318
fuck man I'm having a

00:56:14.338 --> 00:56:15.318
holiday and getting pilot's

00:56:15.338 --> 00:56:17.039
license went and did that

00:56:17.721 --> 00:56:18.460
once you got a pilot's

00:56:18.481 --> 00:56:20.902
license what happens uh you

00:56:20.922 --> 00:56:22.043
know went back to work and

00:56:22.063 --> 00:56:24.905
then that was that how do

00:56:24.925 --> 00:56:26.045
you just like run a plane

00:56:26.126 --> 00:56:27.766
from time to time like how does that work

00:56:28.442 --> 00:56:30.023
Yeah, I'd go like fucking two days a week.

00:56:30.063 --> 00:56:31.005
I'd go and rent a plane,

00:56:31.744 --> 00:56:33.367
go flying with the instructor,

00:56:34.307 --> 00:56:34.907
get my license,

00:56:34.929 --> 00:56:36.210
then go flying by myself

00:56:37.050 --> 00:56:38.092
and then went back to work

00:56:38.132 --> 00:56:41.635
and then fucking no more flying.

00:56:41.655 --> 00:56:42.315
Where do you look at?

00:56:47.121 --> 00:56:47.681
Yeah, cool, man.

00:56:47.721 --> 00:56:48.282
That sounds sick.

00:56:49.547 --> 00:56:51.688
it's pretty cool the freedom

00:56:51.748 --> 00:56:53.429
of flying is like uh

00:56:53.449 --> 00:56:54.550
there's nothing I mean it's

00:56:54.590 --> 00:56:55.710
not really freedom because

00:56:55.730 --> 00:56:56.730
it fucking costs a lot to

00:56:56.769 --> 00:56:58.010
rent right it's not like

00:56:58.050 --> 00:57:00.170
you just go down to the um

00:57:00.210 --> 00:57:01.692
the hertz and rent a plane

00:57:01.731 --> 00:57:02.871
you gotta like go through

00:57:02.891 --> 00:57:03.931
the rigmarole you need all

00:57:03.952 --> 00:57:07.532
the special license and you

00:57:07.552 --> 00:57:08.773
know competencies and you

00:57:08.793 --> 00:57:09.773
gotta log everything and

00:57:09.813 --> 00:57:10.893
it's a real regulated

00:57:10.934 --> 00:57:12.534
bloody thing but when

00:57:12.554 --> 00:57:13.434
you're up there and you can

00:57:13.454 --> 00:57:14.356
just go wherever the fuck

00:57:14.376 --> 00:57:15.735
you want like really fast

00:57:17.264 --> 00:57:17.664
It's great.

00:57:17.684 --> 00:57:18.784
You can't really land anywhere,

00:57:18.804 --> 00:57:20.927
but you know,

00:57:20.967 --> 00:57:24.929
picking up what I'm putting down.

00:57:24.989 --> 00:57:25.170
Yeah.

00:57:25.190 --> 00:57:25.510
Fair enough.

00:57:27.012 --> 00:57:27.791
Well, if you just like,

00:57:28.233 --> 00:57:29.293
if you just like want to fly,

00:57:29.313 --> 00:57:30.134
then can't you just like go

00:57:30.193 --> 00:57:31.235
parasailing or something?

00:57:31.295 --> 00:57:31.896
Cause that's like,

00:57:32.755 --> 00:57:33.956
that's a lot less hassle.

00:57:34.498 --> 00:57:35.659
Potential parasailing.

00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:37.639
You know, when you see those,

00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:39.302
those guys with this big, you know,

00:57:39.322 --> 00:57:40.842
the big parachute,

00:57:40.882 --> 00:57:42.103
like controlled falling.

00:57:43.050 --> 00:57:44.451
No, no, not parachuting.

00:57:44.490 --> 00:57:45.710
The one where you go up on a

00:57:45.751 --> 00:57:47.811
hill and then you pull that big wing.

00:57:47.831 --> 00:57:48.251
Oh, yeah.

00:57:48.391 --> 00:57:49.152
And I fucked that.

00:57:49.192 --> 00:57:50.452
And then you just not doing that.

00:57:51.452 --> 00:57:52.614
Well, why you just said you,

00:57:52.994 --> 00:57:55.355
you fucking say something with a motor,

00:57:55.934 --> 00:57:56.614
you know?

00:57:56.635 --> 00:57:57.916
Well, you put a motor on those as well.

00:57:57.936 --> 00:58:00.197
Well, that's a different thing.

00:58:01.016 --> 00:58:03.438
That's paraglider.

00:58:03.478 --> 00:58:03.577
Yeah.

00:58:03.597 --> 00:58:04.539
Maybe that's a paraglider.

00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:05.239
I mean, I'm not,

00:58:05.559 --> 00:58:06.960
I'm not boned up on the difference.

00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:08.059
I don't, I don't fly.

00:58:10.070 --> 00:58:11.692
One sale, other ones.

00:58:12.911 --> 00:58:13.072
Yeah.

00:58:13.092 --> 00:58:13.371
All right.

00:58:13.411 --> 00:58:16.853
But if you do it in the, you know,

00:58:16.932 --> 00:58:17.833
you make a,

00:58:17.913 --> 00:58:19.474
one of those big nylon sale things,

00:58:19.514 --> 00:58:20.753
like it's functionally the same,

00:58:21.213 --> 00:58:22.755
whether you have a motor on it or not,

00:58:22.835 --> 00:58:23.315
like you just,

00:58:23.514 --> 00:58:24.494
you just strapping a motor

00:58:24.514 --> 00:58:26.096
to your back on you at the end of the day,

00:58:27.135 --> 00:58:28.757
instead of like, yeah, a machine,

00:58:28.936 --> 00:58:29.257
I guess.

00:58:31.617 --> 00:58:32.818
yeah I'm just saying yeah

00:58:32.838 --> 00:58:34.719
put it this way that ain't

00:58:34.739 --> 00:58:37.800
for me yeah uh I prefer

00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:38.641
something you know with the

00:58:38.661 --> 00:58:39.940
windscreen you can sit in

00:58:40.461 --> 00:58:42.181
nice comfy seat get your

00:58:42.262 --> 00:58:44.784
music going your aviator's

00:58:44.844 --> 00:58:45.824
on like you're fucking cool

00:58:46.483 --> 00:58:47.885
I can see that the pattern

00:58:48.005 --> 00:58:50.465
is comfy seat no physical

00:58:50.505 --> 00:58:53.086
exertion that's yeah but I

00:58:53.106 --> 00:58:53.907
just want to go like this

00:58:53.967 --> 00:58:54.768
like I don't want to be

00:58:54.827 --> 00:58:56.608
like oh fucking trees uh

00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:58.840
Why don't you just Microsoft

00:58:58.860 --> 00:58:59.862
Flight Simulator?

00:59:00.702 --> 00:59:02.184
You've got a spare desk behind you.

00:59:02.204 --> 00:59:03.885
You could get a joystick and

00:59:03.925 --> 00:59:05.226
some rudder pedals and shit

00:59:05.266 --> 00:59:07.947
and pretend you're flying a

00:59:08.068 --> 00:59:09.409
seven-three-seven or something.

00:59:10.329 --> 00:59:10.550
I mean,

00:59:10.889 --> 00:59:12.351
if I was going to spend time flying,

00:59:12.411 --> 00:59:13.833
I'd just fucking go flying.

00:59:14.313 --> 00:59:17.795
But I just don't have the time.

00:59:17.815 --> 00:59:22.418
Just too much time in the shitcoin mines.

00:59:22.438 --> 00:59:23.380
Well, yeah, I guess...

00:59:25.557 --> 00:59:26.338
When it comes down to it,

00:59:26.518 --> 00:59:29.780
that's probably the problem.

00:59:31.380 --> 00:59:31.481
Yeah.

00:59:31.501 --> 00:59:32.141
What you need is for the

00:59:32.181 --> 00:59:34.443
market to go Muno and then

00:59:35.123 --> 00:59:37.224
you could finally retire to, well,

00:59:37.264 --> 00:59:37.704
not beach,

00:59:37.764 --> 00:59:38.806
probably literally the same

00:59:38.846 --> 00:59:39.905
chair you're sitting in now.

00:59:40.527 --> 00:59:42.467
And there just go fly your plane.