WEBVTT

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to be honest to be honest to

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be honest but prop's extent

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was really the but prop's

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extent was really the but

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prop's extent was really

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the really the start right

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really the start right

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really the start right it's

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the reason we continued

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it's the reason we

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continued it's the reason

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we continued the reason we continued

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Hello and welcome to Game of Nodes,

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a weekly podcast from

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independent validator teams.

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And I did not just read that

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from a transcript from

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episode one thirty.

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And I totally had that

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memorized and by heart.

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So today it's just this is

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Usurper and Schultz and I

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are here and we're joined

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by Tim from Story Protocol.

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Tim, welcome.

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Thank you very much.

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Yeah, glad to be here.

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Also, my second time on podcast.

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Oh, nice.

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Nice.

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It's about our second.

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It feels like every time it

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feels like a new time.

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It's podcast time again.

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What am I doing?

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I know.

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Yeah.

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It's our second professional

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podcast with you here.

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So that's good.

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yeah so welcome so I know

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you guys had a little

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conversation beforehand and

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maybe we could kick off a

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little bit and to maybe

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want to give a little

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background yourself and

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things like that we can I

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don't know if you had an

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agenda I don't want to step

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on it so oh I have no

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agenda I assure you oh free

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flow then um yeah I I think

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I I just I just kick in on um and give a

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short than um intro yeah so

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my name is timpin tim um so

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that's my id and um also

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like um all social media is

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timpin tim so small story

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behind this um name was

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because um tim.es was too

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expensive and then

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timtim.es was um was not

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special enough so I saw

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it's not two it's not four

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let's go for three so

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that's how how I how I got my first ens

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And then lately it become

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the iconic thing on me, the Tim Tim Tim.

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Yeah.

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Um, so I currently, um, serve as a, um,

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validator lead at a story also, um,

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supervising on the, um,

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infrastructure partnership

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and also death row side.

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Yeah.

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So that's how I met, um, everyone here, um,

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who runs validator notes

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with us and got invited as well.

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So some, a bit of my background,

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I started off in this

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industry to back in around

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two three years ago when I

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first um first studied um

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doing my masters I was

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doing some research on

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blockchain and intellectual

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property um how we can use

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blockchain to revamp the

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copyright protection system

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in traditional like

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governance perspective and

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then um I got into finance

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the exchange and then

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transitioned myself to

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death row at the bnb chain

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So after that, I joined Flock.

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It's an AI and crypto company.

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So I was the head of Defrail there.

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And then now I'm at Story.

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How long have you been at Story?

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I'm starting my fifth month.

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So I've served a complete four months,

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which felt like a year past.

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And when did the business launch to you?

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So story business?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Quite around three years ago.

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Oh, is it that long?

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It's similar.

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Closer to three years rather than two.

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Yeah.

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Was there any launches on story before?

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Kind of what's going on now?

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Or did it go through a couple iterations?

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Or what's the history there?

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Do you know?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I actually did a lot of

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research back in September

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when they announced second round.

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I was still like a witness.

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So an over overviewing the

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whole company and got very attracted.

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So I took a look.

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Um, so actually two, um, three years ago,

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initially started off as a

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IP franchisor and then, um,

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and then bridged into blockchain.

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So last September, the second,

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second round announced, and then they,

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they had this first blog

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came out to describe the, um,

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get repository for IP,

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which is the proof of creativity, um,

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protocol.

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And then after Denver,

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we moved on to L-two and then now L-one.

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So everything.

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So from protocol to L-two to

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L-one actually just happened this year.

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I gotcha.

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That makes sense.

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So it was an L-two on Ethereum,

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like it was straight L-two?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So it's more like through

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the roll up as a service, you know,

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like Calendon.

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Sure, sure, sure, sure.

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And so now it's an L-one using Tendermint,

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right?

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Yeah.

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I don't know too much.

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Yeah.

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so it's similar to very

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chain in that there is a um

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it's using tenderness

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consensus and then it uses

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geth as the execution layer

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yep that's correct that's

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all the rage these days it

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is yeah it works though

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it's pretty stable it's

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just stable as yeah

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absolutely yeah it just

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depends heavy and what kind

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of block oh that when we

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talk about block times we

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get to that point later

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maybe uh so so tim how why

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why the validator

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role, like why are you leading validators?

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If you,

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if you were doing IP stuff and got

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a master's in that,

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like messing around in the

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dirt with us seems a little, uh,

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off kilter.

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It, I, I don't,

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I don't feel like it's off kilter.

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Um,

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so I sometimes describe myself as the

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death row for validators, as we know,

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like, um, so I, I didn't,

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to be very honest before

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joining this role,

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I had zero experience

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running a validator.

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I've run, I've run a bit Bitcoin validator,

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uh, Bitcoin note.

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during the time where the

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other notes first came out, like January,

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the end of January, February last year.

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And then I was like,

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this thing is too hard.

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So it's complex in a way

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where it doesn't allow you

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to do stuff easily.

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So I fully think the node and I gave up.

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So I still have the node on my on my PC,

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but it's just I didn't run

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it for a long time.

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Right.

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So but after like the past

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four months has been

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obviously we know that we

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launched two testnet.

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We are launching our new

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testnet zone and then we

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launched our first testnet.

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So talking to a lot of validators,

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more than around a hundred validators.

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Um, I feel like I'm,

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I'm kind of getting to know

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what's going on with the whole community.

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It's,

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it's really no difference compared to

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how I do death row before

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setting up community,

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providing technical support,

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and then also, you know, um,

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railing death row into building stuff.

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I think now like doing that, um,

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doing validator is not enough, right?

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Keep up,

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keep your uptime for it seemed to

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be a golden standard.

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Like everyone just follows.

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So beyond that,

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we are looking at more

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stuff like how you support the ecosystem,

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what tools you are building

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to support the community,

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rather than just saying, oh,

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I just run a node and then

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I just provide support.

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So I do see like you need to

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have someone who has a kind

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of a developer mindset and

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also able to handle the

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community to be on this

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road to support all the validators.

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Yeah, that makes sense.

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How many validators do you

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intend to have come mainnet

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or the next testnet?

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So current,

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let's go from the testnet first.

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So for the existing new odyssey testnet,

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we are looking at a total

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of hundred and twelve active set.

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So we have eight genesis validator.

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So which means we will be releasing around

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hundred hundred and a

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hundred and four hundred

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four slots to the to the

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validator selection um and

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um we will be we will be

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doing a delegation based

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rotation system where we're

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gonna delegate the tokens

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to the validators

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And then for the mainnet,

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we are looking at in total, again,

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like we have the eight

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genesis validator and also

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around the total will be sixty four.

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So which means the community

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and partners will share

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fifty six spare slots for

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the rest of the validator.

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Wait, can you say that again?

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So we have in total sixty

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four for mainnet.

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and then we have eight

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genesis yep yep I got it

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okay so the a are so those

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would be foundation

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validators or those just be

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chosen mainnet validators

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that want to launch with uh

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you mean you mean the eight

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genesis or the fifty six um

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a genesis a genesis um are

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actually partners so we we

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have uh we have a

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partnership um before

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before we launch the the

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blockchain got it so like

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coinbase kraken that type of thing yeah

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Got it.

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Interesting.

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So why a hundred and twelve

00:09:02.201 --> 00:09:03.602
slots if you're going to

00:09:03.623 --> 00:09:04.783
have sixty four total to

00:09:04.803 --> 00:09:05.844
get better metrics of all

00:09:05.884 --> 00:09:06.605
the testnet ones?

00:09:07.485 --> 00:09:09.047
I think I think initially speaking,

00:09:09.086 --> 00:09:12.028
when I look at our current basis of Iliad,

00:09:12.308 --> 00:09:14.450
so we have around nine

00:09:14.470 --> 00:09:15.551
thousand five hundred nodes

00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:16.792
running at the moment.

00:09:16.871 --> 00:09:18.273
And also, yes,

00:09:18.833 --> 00:09:20.514
we are not as bad as initial

00:09:20.575 --> 00:09:22.316
initial had certain K, you know,

00:09:22.436 --> 00:09:23.636
they had certain K nodes.

00:09:24.451 --> 00:09:25.913
Um, and then also like, um,

00:09:25.952 --> 00:09:27.933
doing an evaluation, um, on,

00:09:28.153 --> 00:09:29.433
on the existing role.

00:09:29.615 --> 00:09:32.035
So we do have a, um, located, um,

00:09:32.176 --> 00:09:33.797
entrance to get in involved

00:09:33.876 --> 00:09:34.697
in validator chat.

00:09:34.876 --> 00:09:36.238
I have around one thousand people.

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So I think I do believe.

00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:38.739
Yeah.

00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:40.039
So I, I do believe when,

00:09:40.179 --> 00:09:42.000
when we actually have, um, one hundred,

00:09:42.660 --> 00:09:44.241
one hundred set of, uh, P um,

00:09:44.741 --> 00:09:46.342
one hundred four active set

00:09:46.442 --> 00:09:47.503
may not be good enough.

00:09:47.923 --> 00:09:48.224
So,

00:09:48.504 --> 00:09:50.565
so the reason for hundred and twelve is

00:09:50.644 --> 00:09:53.046
actually doubles the fifty six, right?

00:09:53.552 --> 00:09:55.173
So we want to assess as many

00:09:55.214 --> 00:09:56.414
people at one patch as

00:09:56.495 --> 00:09:58.015
possible so we can actually

00:09:58.056 --> 00:09:58.777
just rotate out.

00:09:59.136 --> 00:10:00.317
Also provide a good chance

00:10:00.337 --> 00:10:02.438
for us to stress test our network,

00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:05.500
just in case if we have a

00:10:05.802 --> 00:10:07.503
network expansion plan in the future,

00:10:07.562 --> 00:10:10.225
how we're going to handle such a big,

00:10:11.586 --> 00:10:12.846
large number of validators.

00:10:13.966 --> 00:10:16.009
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:10:16.048 --> 00:10:19.030
So how soon is Mainnet then?

00:10:19.787 --> 00:10:21.068
Because if you're already thinking like,

00:10:21.129 --> 00:10:22.951
let's choose your core set,

00:10:23.030 --> 00:10:25.453
it's got to be relatively soon, right?

00:10:26.755 --> 00:10:27.756
I don't know, man.

00:10:27.856 --> 00:10:28.778
We're still deciding.

00:10:28.859 --> 00:10:31.581
I think there's a lot of bug fixing.

00:10:31.662 --> 00:10:35.326
And also since the other core set,

00:10:36.032 --> 00:10:37.873
who are common is there is

00:10:37.893 --> 00:10:39.873
that the OTC is actually a

00:10:39.952 --> 00:10:40.913
brand new network.

00:10:41.114 --> 00:10:42.714
It's not like you just swap

00:10:42.734 --> 00:10:43.894
your nodes out and then you

00:10:43.914 --> 00:10:45.755
have the version upgrade.

00:10:45.916 --> 00:10:46.975
So it actually,

00:10:47.176 --> 00:10:49.017
it is a brand new network

00:10:49.677 --> 00:10:50.976
that should provide some

00:10:51.498 --> 00:10:53.197
similar experience to what

00:10:53.217 --> 00:10:54.798
we are looking at the future, but also,

00:10:54.818 --> 00:10:55.058
you know,

00:10:55.619 --> 00:10:56.879
things may happen differently.

00:10:58.059 --> 00:10:58.259
Like,

00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:00.620
like sometimes you have the plan and

00:11:00.660 --> 00:11:02.461
then things happen beyond

00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:03.701
the plan that we need to

00:11:03.821 --> 00:11:05.942
draft out a further, further step.

00:11:06.381 --> 00:11:08.643
So I can't do any promise here,

00:11:08.783 --> 00:11:11.384
but I feel I hopefully, you know, we are,

00:11:11.423 --> 00:11:12.144
we are launching,

00:11:12.303 --> 00:11:13.364
we're launching zoom and

00:11:13.423 --> 00:11:14.745
also this is going to be last one,

00:11:14.924 --> 00:11:17.144
but that, that just a hope.

00:11:18.125 --> 00:11:18.485
Sure.

00:11:18.525 --> 00:11:19.166
Sure.

00:11:19.245 --> 00:11:19.765
Yeah.

00:11:19.826 --> 00:11:21.346
So do you want to talk about

00:11:21.386 --> 00:11:22.147
story protocol at all?

00:11:22.167 --> 00:11:22.606
Yeah.

00:11:24.446 --> 00:11:26.208
um yeah yeah for sure um I

00:11:26.249 --> 00:11:28.471
think um I think there's a

00:11:28.511 --> 00:11:29.352
there's a lot of question

00:11:29.393 --> 00:11:31.235
around um why I won and

00:11:31.254 --> 00:11:33.018
then also why ip and then

00:11:33.258 --> 00:11:35.240
also like um why why why

00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:36.763
just blockchain um I think

00:11:37.102 --> 00:11:38.424
we we can we can literally

00:11:38.445 --> 00:11:40.587
touch base on on that perspective

00:11:41.844 --> 00:11:44.125
Um, so let, let's begin from like, uh,

00:11:44.225 --> 00:11:45.787
what exactly story does.

00:11:46.006 --> 00:11:46.846
So we are now story.

00:11:46.907 --> 00:11:47.807
We don't call ourselves

00:11:47.847 --> 00:11:48.889
story protocol anymore.

00:11:49.109 --> 00:11:49.889
So because, um,

00:11:49.928 --> 00:11:51.210
story protocol is actually

00:11:51.250 --> 00:11:53.071
the protocol on top of our chain.

00:11:53.491 --> 00:11:54.892
So the chain is called story.

00:11:55.072 --> 00:11:56.634
So I'll be using story onwards.

00:11:57.673 --> 00:11:59.836
Um, so the first thing is, um,

00:11:59.895 --> 00:12:02.817
we didn't intend generally to build a,

00:12:03.077 --> 00:12:05.099
an L one, so it wasn't in the plan.

00:12:06.008 --> 00:12:07.729
it slightly got got dragged

00:12:07.769 --> 00:12:08.929
by the technical

00:12:09.110 --> 00:12:10.530
difficulties and also like

00:12:10.650 --> 00:12:14.114
um achievable like the the

00:12:14.254 --> 00:12:15.835
performance of layer two

00:12:15.875 --> 00:12:17.875
didn't reach to the to our

00:12:18.297 --> 00:12:20.298
um kind of uh expectation

00:12:20.398 --> 00:12:22.340
so we uh obviously um we

00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.260
since last september when

00:12:24.301 --> 00:12:25.741
we raised the second round

00:12:25.802 --> 00:12:27.623
we actually proposed the

00:12:27.763 --> 00:12:29.485
idea of building a protocol

00:12:30.085 --> 00:12:32.307
so what this protocol does is um it's the

00:12:34.331 --> 00:12:35.932
From my personal perspective,

00:12:35.993 --> 00:12:37.352
I think it's the

00:12:37.673 --> 00:12:39.232
visualization of how we

00:12:39.274 --> 00:12:40.874
transfer IP on chain.

00:12:41.673 --> 00:12:44.134
So the issue we are solving

00:12:44.195 --> 00:12:45.735
here is that traditionally

00:12:45.774 --> 00:12:47.395
talking about intellectual property,

00:12:47.456 --> 00:12:48.576
talking about copyright,

00:12:48.936 --> 00:12:50.196
you often get into a very

00:12:50.255 --> 00:12:52.417
ambiguous position where

00:12:52.476 --> 00:12:53.517
how we visualize the

00:12:53.576 --> 00:12:56.057
relationship between IP ownership,

00:12:56.378 --> 00:12:59.798
between the rights ownership beyond IP,

00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:01.639
for example, like adoption rights,

00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:03.059
publication rights.

00:13:03.958 --> 00:13:05.620
And then performance rights,

00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:07.440
it's very ambiguous.

00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:09.561
And then it's very hard to kind of,

00:13:10.260 --> 00:13:10.741
how we say,

00:13:11.081 --> 00:13:13.302
feeling it physically because

00:13:13.383 --> 00:13:14.423
they are all contracts.

00:13:15.482 --> 00:13:17.384
One thing great about NFT

00:13:17.403 --> 00:13:18.904
and blockchain is that we

00:13:18.945 --> 00:13:20.524
actually can encapitalize

00:13:20.565 --> 00:13:22.946
those rights into an entity.

00:13:23.485 --> 00:13:24.667
And then through that entity,

00:13:24.746 --> 00:13:26.147
we are able to visualize

00:13:26.167 --> 00:13:27.067
all the relationship

00:13:27.908 --> 00:13:29.128
because it's a transaction

00:13:29.227 --> 00:13:30.428
and then it's an object.

00:13:31.604 --> 00:13:33.806
And then, um, beyond that is that, um,

00:13:34.225 --> 00:13:37.428
by adding the, um, by adding the six,

00:13:37.448 --> 00:13:39.490
five, five, one ERC six, five, five, one,

00:13:39.551 --> 00:13:41.552
the token bounded account, um, idea,

00:13:41.952 --> 00:13:43.214
we're able to create a

00:13:43.374 --> 00:13:45.255
extra wrapper around the

00:13:45.456 --> 00:13:47.477
NFT object to make him more

00:13:47.577 --> 00:13:49.178
executionable.

00:13:49.700 --> 00:13:50.961
So where we created the

00:13:51.081 --> 00:13:53.543
execution layer allowing.

00:13:54.113 --> 00:13:57.476
allowing those IP assets to

00:13:57.517 --> 00:13:59.558
become wallet where through

00:13:59.578 --> 00:14:02.542
that we enable the artist,

00:14:02.562 --> 00:14:03.803
the creator to have the

00:14:03.864 --> 00:14:05.785
module access such as

00:14:05.905 --> 00:14:07.427
licensing module to help

00:14:07.447 --> 00:14:09.770
them fix resolving all the

00:14:09.811 --> 00:14:12.212
license issue after their

00:14:12.413 --> 00:14:14.275
IP become famous and also

00:14:15.345 --> 00:14:16.405
The royalty module,

00:14:16.447 --> 00:14:19.090
so if one wants to use the

00:14:19.190 --> 00:14:20.912
original IP to create derivatives,

00:14:20.991 --> 00:14:22.094
you can always track back

00:14:22.114 --> 00:14:24.657
the royalty usage and also

00:14:24.756 --> 00:14:25.999
the dispute module to

00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:29.123
prevent infringement or violation.

00:14:29.884 --> 00:14:31.787
So that's the base protocol

00:14:31.826 --> 00:14:33.448
level approach we did.

00:14:35.832 --> 00:14:36.835
Maybe this is a silly question.

00:14:36.894 --> 00:14:37.576
Sorry for interrupting,

00:14:37.615 --> 00:14:40.581
but would this be legally binding?

00:14:41.985 --> 00:14:43.727
Could you potentially take it to court?

00:14:44.028 --> 00:14:44.809
Are there any lawyers

00:14:44.850 --> 00:14:46.653
involved that can review contracts?

00:14:46.714 --> 00:14:47.095
Are there...

00:14:48.616 --> 00:14:52.278
Yeah, so currently our license template,

00:14:52.298 --> 00:14:53.500
so we do have a special

00:14:53.539 --> 00:14:54.461
term called license

00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.881
template where we attach to

00:14:56.042 --> 00:14:57.383
each IP assets.

00:14:57.802 --> 00:14:59.244
So through that license template,

00:14:59.264 --> 00:15:00.644
we can define whether the

00:15:00.865 --> 00:15:03.105
usage of the derivative or

00:15:03.145 --> 00:15:05.868
the usage of the IP is

00:15:05.927 --> 00:15:08.149
commercial or non-commercial or no use.

00:15:08.970 --> 00:15:11.671
So these IP templates were

00:15:12.292 --> 00:15:14.092
remapped from existing

00:15:14.592 --> 00:15:16.793
American intellectual property law.

00:15:17.235 --> 00:15:17.715
So we are

00:15:18.785 --> 00:15:20.527
so internally we do have a

00:15:21.067 --> 00:15:22.347
legal team that is working

00:15:22.388 --> 00:15:23.408
closely with different

00:15:23.427 --> 00:15:24.808
lawyers to push the

00:15:24.869 --> 00:15:26.429
narrative of using this

00:15:26.490 --> 00:15:29.410
license template I think um

00:15:29.451 --> 00:15:30.991
so obviously at the moment

00:15:31.111 --> 00:15:32.732
so we see few cases where

00:15:32.793 --> 00:15:35.354
we allow some nfd as a

00:15:35.794 --> 00:15:37.596
evidence so when when you

00:15:37.635 --> 00:15:39.176
actually have the stolen

00:15:39.275 --> 00:15:41.397
assets or you someone drain

00:15:41.417 --> 00:15:42.658
your wallet you can

00:15:42.697 --> 00:15:43.698
actually bring it to court

00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:45.318
and court will resolve it

00:15:45.438 --> 00:15:48.380
as a as a part of assets lost

00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:52.490
so but but I think at um by

00:15:52.591 --> 00:15:53.871
now we still haven't seen

00:15:53.971 --> 00:15:56.072
any cases um using story

00:15:56.092 --> 00:15:57.474
protocol as the main

00:15:57.553 --> 00:15:59.134
evidence I think I think we

00:15:59.154 --> 00:16:00.015
just need to walk that

00:16:00.056 --> 00:16:01.336
first step so we need to

00:16:01.576 --> 00:16:02.878
have that first case came

00:16:02.998 --> 00:16:04.198
out and then see how the

00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:06.059
lord existing law system

00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:08.522
responds to it because um

00:16:08.542 --> 00:16:10.462
without any actual um

00:16:11.063 --> 00:16:12.764
practical practical action

00:16:13.105 --> 00:16:14.525
we cannot just um assume it

00:16:14.605 --> 00:16:15.947
work or assume it doesn't work

00:16:18.404 --> 00:16:19.884
kind of curious because I

00:16:19.904 --> 00:16:21.385
remember whenever I first

00:16:21.426 --> 00:16:22.145
got into like my

00:16:22.186 --> 00:16:23.525
professional life and I

00:16:23.586 --> 00:16:24.767
used docusign for the first

00:16:24.807 --> 00:16:25.966
time I was like surely this

00:16:25.986 --> 00:16:26.687
couldn't actually be

00:16:26.746 --> 00:16:27.607
legally binding right

00:16:27.628 --> 00:16:28.187
because you're not actually

00:16:28.288 --> 00:16:29.807
signing anything but really

00:16:30.268 --> 00:16:31.028
that's not really what

00:16:31.087 --> 00:16:31.808
matters what matters kind

00:16:31.828 --> 00:16:33.928
of the intent and you were

00:16:33.969 --> 00:16:35.389
the person that clicked

00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:37.110
like yes sign so it works

00:16:37.149 --> 00:16:39.451
right and in theory using a

00:16:39.471 --> 00:16:40.370
wallet for that would be

00:16:40.431 --> 00:16:41.551
just as effective if not

00:16:41.831 --> 00:16:43.772
more binding and so

00:16:45.611 --> 00:16:45.892
In theory,

00:16:45.912 --> 00:16:47.013
it makes sense to like create

00:16:47.033 --> 00:16:49.394
some sort of docusign out of story.

00:16:49.673 --> 00:16:49.994
Right.

00:16:50.413 --> 00:16:50.994
And then have like,

00:16:51.033 --> 00:16:52.695
here's your wallet to sign here.

00:16:52.754 --> 00:16:54.275
And then now your contract,

00:16:55.096 --> 00:16:55.676
maybe there's some way of

00:16:55.716 --> 00:16:57.037
like not putting your contract on chain.

00:16:57.336 --> 00:16:57.537
Right.

00:16:57.557 --> 00:16:58.717
Cause you don't want like NDAs on there,

00:16:58.738 --> 00:16:59.057
whatever.

00:16:59.697 --> 00:16:59.957
Um,

00:16:59.977 --> 00:17:02.038
but creating some sort of binding that

00:17:02.119 --> 00:17:03.759
could then be legally binding in that,

00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:04.380
in that form.

00:17:05.167 --> 00:17:06.089
Yeah,

00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:07.613
also just leveraging on what you just

00:17:07.633 --> 00:17:09.477
said, I think in a way,

00:17:10.117 --> 00:17:11.741
wallet is a very strong

00:17:11.902 --> 00:17:13.224
entity representation

00:17:13.265 --> 00:17:14.247
because you are the only

00:17:14.366 --> 00:17:16.270
one knows your seed phrase.

00:17:16.986 --> 00:17:18.046
And then also we have

00:17:18.086 --> 00:17:19.366
something called sign protocol.

00:17:19.567 --> 00:17:20.767
They actually allows you to

00:17:20.826 --> 00:17:22.126
sign directly on chain and

00:17:22.166 --> 00:17:23.567
then use your wallet as an

00:17:23.667 --> 00:17:26.428
entity to validate different contracts.

00:17:26.468 --> 00:17:27.929
So I think wallet as an

00:17:28.028 --> 00:17:29.628
entity definitely makes

00:17:29.669 --> 00:17:32.289
sense in a lot of scenario

00:17:32.430 --> 00:17:33.349
where because you are the

00:17:33.410 --> 00:17:34.891
only one knows your seed phrase.

00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:36.111
And then we always tell

00:17:36.131 --> 00:17:37.411
people that you don't

00:17:37.590 --> 00:17:38.652
exploit your seed phrase,

00:17:38.672 --> 00:17:40.372
you don't exploit your private key.

00:17:40.967 --> 00:17:42.928
So then, in other words,

00:17:42.988 --> 00:17:44.930
is that no other people in

00:17:44.950 --> 00:17:46.171
this world should know your

00:17:46.211 --> 00:17:50.094
seed phrase or your private key.

00:17:50.193 --> 00:17:50.513
Sure.

00:17:50.534 --> 00:17:50.653
Tim,

00:17:50.673 --> 00:17:54.176
how do you guys approach things around

00:17:54.757 --> 00:17:57.419
either identity and or privacy?

00:17:58.128 --> 00:18:00.450
validity of ip because some

00:18:00.470 --> 00:18:01.810
of these ip tool sets that

00:18:01.830 --> 00:18:03.571
are out there have research

00:18:03.612 --> 00:18:06.252
teams to validate that's

00:18:06.272 --> 00:18:06.913
something that somebody's

00:18:06.952 --> 00:18:07.873
putting up as ip as their

00:18:07.913 --> 00:18:10.074
own um trying to catch

00:18:10.094 --> 00:18:12.675
fraud early on like this is

00:18:12.836 --> 00:18:13.996
it's like the using the

00:18:14.016 --> 00:18:15.196
blockchain as a ledger for

00:18:15.297 --> 00:18:16.676
hey I own something and we

00:18:16.696 --> 00:18:17.577
want to license something

00:18:17.917 --> 00:18:18.798
that transaction seems

00:18:18.857 --> 00:18:19.959
extremely straightforward to me

00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.182
the part I see as being the issue was like,

00:18:23.642 --> 00:18:23.882
number one,

00:18:23.902 --> 00:18:24.982
you have to be recognized as

00:18:25.022 --> 00:18:26.443
being an organization,

00:18:26.463 --> 00:18:27.003
like you have to be

00:18:27.044 --> 00:18:27.903
recognized as being a

00:18:28.003 --> 00:18:29.664
system that is trustworthy, right?

00:18:29.786 --> 00:18:30.826
That this is an actual

00:18:30.925 --> 00:18:32.846
entity that has enough IP

00:18:33.488 --> 00:18:36.789
and has some validity around it, right?

00:18:36.809 --> 00:18:37.849
Because it really came up

00:18:37.971 --> 00:18:39.530
out of nowhere in the last three years.

00:18:39.550 --> 00:18:40.412
So there has to be that piece of it.

00:18:40.892 --> 00:18:41.413
And number two,

00:18:42.133 --> 00:18:43.794
if it's full of bullshit,

00:18:44.054 --> 00:18:45.315
like if it's full of just

00:18:45.335 --> 00:18:46.955
people spamming things around,

00:18:46.996 --> 00:18:48.036
whatever the hell they want to do with it,

00:18:48.336 --> 00:18:48.896
then you have like the

00:18:48.957 --> 00:18:50.417
signal to noise ratio to say, no, that,

00:18:50.657 --> 00:18:51.618
that stuff over there.

00:18:51.939 --> 00:18:52.098
Yeah.

00:18:52.199 --> 00:18:53.118
All that doesn't make any sense,

00:18:53.138 --> 00:18:55.681
but this thing that I IP is true.

00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:57.001
So like that,

00:18:57.041 --> 00:18:58.521
which is totally away from the technology,

00:18:58.583 --> 00:18:58.762
right?

00:18:58.823 --> 00:19:00.624
Like anybody can generate a wallet.

00:19:00.703 --> 00:19:01.104
Anybody can,

00:19:01.344 --> 00:19:02.365
I can impersonate a thousand

00:19:02.384 --> 00:19:02.785
different people.

00:19:03.065 --> 00:19:04.105
I can take ownership of all

00:19:04.125 --> 00:19:04.726
these different things.

00:19:05.567 --> 00:19:06.186
How do you guys going to

00:19:06.247 --> 00:19:06.987
solve that problem?

00:19:07.067 --> 00:19:07.387
Cause that,

00:19:07.407 --> 00:19:09.449
that seems like something that

00:19:10.429 --> 00:19:11.430
technology doesn't solve.

00:19:12.239 --> 00:19:15.060
Yeah, I think what you mentioned is great.

00:19:15.141 --> 00:19:16.721
I think it's a great angle, to be honest.

00:19:17.021 --> 00:19:17.663
A lot of people would

00:19:17.702 --> 00:19:19.263
directly just ask me how

00:19:19.284 --> 00:19:21.645
you prevent infringing,

00:19:21.806 --> 00:19:23.346
how you protect violation.

00:19:23.446 --> 00:19:24.728
But to be very honest,

00:19:25.307 --> 00:19:27.349
human action is unpreventable.

00:19:27.829 --> 00:19:29.631
People can do all the

00:19:29.671 --> 00:19:31.051
actions beyond your

00:19:31.152 --> 00:19:32.313
imagination and then just

00:19:32.333 --> 00:19:33.993
to infringe it or violating it.

00:19:34.615 --> 00:19:36.316
So we have two angles

00:19:36.355 --> 00:19:38.396
looking into this question.

00:19:38.517 --> 00:19:39.057
So one is,

00:19:39.695 --> 00:19:42.057
how um how we use blockchain

00:19:42.137 --> 00:19:43.858
as a tool to accelerate the

00:19:43.999 --> 00:19:45.840
evidence collection process

00:19:46.560 --> 00:19:49.182
so um so so basically my

00:19:49.282 --> 00:19:50.703
master research was on this

00:19:51.065 --> 00:19:51.805
how to prove that

00:19:51.944 --> 00:19:52.905
blockchain is a more

00:19:53.006 --> 00:19:54.948
effective tool to prevent

00:19:55.288 --> 00:19:56.709
um to accelerate the

00:19:57.470 --> 00:19:58.609
evidence collection because

00:19:58.630 --> 00:19:59.471
you have the timestamp

00:19:59.530 --> 00:20:02.953
right so the timestamp can actually be um

00:20:03.709 --> 00:20:04.769
the first thing that people

00:20:04.808 --> 00:20:05.909
look at the timestamp is

00:20:05.950 --> 00:20:07.009
more like oh you you're

00:20:07.049 --> 00:20:08.309
proving the fact that this

00:20:08.329 --> 00:20:10.851
guy is a an a original um

00:20:11.131 --> 00:20:12.691
like a creator of this ip

00:20:13.030 --> 00:20:14.270
but we can also reversely

00:20:14.310 --> 00:20:15.771
looking at the timestamp so

00:20:15.791 --> 00:20:16.592
we can also use that

00:20:16.652 --> 00:20:17.791
timestamp to prove that

00:20:17.892 --> 00:20:19.112
this this person actually

00:20:19.132 --> 00:20:20.673
infringing existing ip

00:20:21.173 --> 00:20:22.393
because it's a unique

00:20:22.413 --> 00:20:23.673
timestamp happening at that

00:20:23.712 --> 00:20:26.574
moment so if we took that timestamp

00:20:27.173 --> 00:20:28.553
further we are able to

00:20:28.712 --> 00:20:29.913
accelerate the speed of

00:20:30.173 --> 00:20:31.554
partially collecting the

00:20:31.693 --> 00:20:32.874
evidence because we can

00:20:32.894 --> 00:20:33.954
just use the timestamp to

00:20:34.035 --> 00:20:35.994
use that block information

00:20:36.015 --> 00:20:37.375
to prove the ownership of

00:20:37.434 --> 00:20:39.855
the that nft object and

00:20:39.875 --> 00:20:41.576
then the other work will be

00:20:41.635 --> 00:20:43.396
more of the off-chain side

00:20:43.737 --> 00:20:45.297
how we how we identify the

00:20:45.356 --> 00:20:47.137
ownership of the like the

00:20:47.178 --> 00:20:48.377
people who raised the case

00:20:49.624 --> 00:20:51.566
So so actually, two thousand and nineteen,

00:20:51.586 --> 00:20:53.048
there's a case happened in China.

00:20:53.428 --> 00:20:54.829
So China has a very rich

00:20:55.750 --> 00:20:56.991
intellectual property chain

00:20:57.011 --> 00:20:58.334
kind of ecosystem.

00:20:58.634 --> 00:21:00.395
So there were there are

00:21:00.796 --> 00:21:03.298
eight different IP chain in China.

00:21:03.719 --> 00:21:06.702
So so Baidu actually sued TikTok.

00:21:07.462 --> 00:21:10.164
I think it's Baidu Su's

00:21:10.265 --> 00:21:12.665
TikTok on video infringing.

00:21:13.165 --> 00:21:14.026
So they actually,

00:21:14.165 --> 00:21:15.326
it was the first time in

00:21:15.406 --> 00:21:16.688
history people used

00:21:17.167 --> 00:21:20.169
blockchain to collect the evidence.

00:21:20.308 --> 00:21:21.049
And then it's just

00:21:21.069 --> 00:21:22.750
dramatically speed up the

00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:25.111
whole evidence collection process.

00:21:25.531 --> 00:21:27.372
So normally speaking at the moment,

00:21:27.432 --> 00:21:29.532
like during the IP

00:21:29.593 --> 00:21:31.473
infringement or violation,

00:21:31.513 --> 00:21:32.615
we are talking about years.

00:21:33.136 --> 00:21:34.656
because you have the lawyers

00:21:34.757 --> 00:21:37.178
to collect both materials

00:21:37.258 --> 00:21:38.459
and evidence to actually

00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:39.459
proving the fact that you

00:21:39.499 --> 00:21:40.598
are the original owner.

00:21:41.098 --> 00:21:42.119
And then, you know,

00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:43.220
when you are trying to suit

00:21:43.339 --> 00:21:45.500
like larger corporations or

00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:46.681
larger tech companies,

00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.760
it may take longer time due

00:21:48.780 --> 00:21:50.261
to the fact that how like

00:21:50.301 --> 00:21:54.123
larger cooperation may have, you know,

00:21:54.163 --> 00:21:55.982
like a longer process in

00:21:56.042 --> 00:21:57.403
order to get the evidence.

00:21:57.483 --> 00:21:58.544
So if we are able to use

00:21:58.584 --> 00:22:00.045
blockchain as a transparent

00:22:00.204 --> 00:22:01.204
and traceable tool,

00:22:01.855 --> 00:22:04.657
it actually hugely speed up

00:22:04.718 --> 00:22:06.619
the whole evidence collection speed.

00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:07.361
So that's one.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.683
And then the second part I want to answer,

00:22:10.824 --> 00:22:11.845
how I answer this question

00:22:11.924 --> 00:22:13.626
is that we are actually

00:22:13.646 --> 00:22:15.147
working with a lot of traditional IP.

00:22:15.388 --> 00:22:17.411
So we want to say, I think,

00:22:17.871 --> 00:22:19.031
onboarding traditional

00:22:19.071 --> 00:22:22.015
large IP corporations such as Disney,

00:22:22.055 --> 00:22:25.538
such as Fox, such as Japanese anime,

00:22:26.219 --> 00:22:29.162
a company like Toei or Kyoto

00:22:29.241 --> 00:22:31.805
Animation or A-Won Pictures

00:22:32.425 --> 00:22:34.007
or Korean companies such as

00:22:34.086 --> 00:22:35.608
Netmarble is very vital to

00:22:35.669 --> 00:22:37.851
us as well because only if

00:22:37.891 --> 00:22:40.453
we can get a validation

00:22:40.473 --> 00:22:42.516
from them we are able to use it as a

00:22:43.036 --> 00:22:44.478
successful case to tell rest

00:22:44.518 --> 00:22:46.078
of the people or rest of

00:22:46.098 --> 00:22:48.240
the world that this makes sense, right?

00:22:48.381 --> 00:22:49.521
You want to have the,

00:22:49.602 --> 00:22:51.263
a large name to come first, um,

00:22:51.304 --> 00:22:52.684
before you kind of, uh,

00:22:52.785 --> 00:22:54.326
have all the attraction for

00:22:54.727 --> 00:22:56.229
rest of the world to use it.

00:22:56.249 --> 00:22:57.430
So we are working, um,

00:22:57.509 --> 00:23:00.932
heavily into building the relationship,

00:23:01.012 --> 00:23:02.114
building those connection

00:23:02.153 --> 00:23:04.856
with traditional, uh, creator companies.

00:23:05.740 --> 00:23:07.019
And do those companies actually,

00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:08.181
I don't know the IP space very well,

00:23:08.201 --> 00:23:09.121
but do those companies

00:23:09.161 --> 00:23:10.981
actually publish that data publicly?

00:23:11.281 --> 00:23:11.422
Like,

00:23:11.442 --> 00:23:13.762
can I search those specific examples

00:23:13.782 --> 00:23:14.143
that you mentioned?

00:23:14.163 --> 00:23:15.522
Can I go to their site and

00:23:15.563 --> 00:23:16.584
search for a specific piece

00:23:16.624 --> 00:23:18.523
of IP and see the same thing?

00:23:18.564 --> 00:23:20.045
I can see a timestamp when it was created.

00:23:20.085 --> 00:23:20.845
I can see creator.

00:23:20.884 --> 00:23:22.464
I can see documents associated to that.

00:23:22.726 --> 00:23:23.526
Does that even exist?

00:23:24.465 --> 00:23:26.747
um I think um different I as

00:23:26.787 --> 00:23:27.846
far as I know like

00:23:27.886 --> 00:23:28.967
different com different

00:23:29.027 --> 00:23:31.287
countries has uh has a ip

00:23:31.326 --> 00:23:33.748
database so because um it's

00:23:34.367 --> 00:23:35.567
intellectual property law

00:23:35.647 --> 00:23:36.828
is actually very complex

00:23:37.288 --> 00:23:38.469
yeah it's actually region

00:23:38.489 --> 00:23:40.409
specific so different

00:23:40.469 --> 00:23:41.690
country will have their own

00:23:41.750 --> 00:23:43.109
type of floor you can go

00:23:43.150 --> 00:23:44.410
through the um intellectual

00:23:44.450 --> 00:23:46.190
property database to go

00:23:46.230 --> 00:23:47.691
through what type of ip or

00:23:47.730 --> 00:23:48.911
what type of pattern or

00:23:49.030 --> 00:23:51.090
even like a business secret

00:23:51.131 --> 00:23:53.392
they they registered within that um

00:23:54.337 --> 00:23:56.199
um like copy your um

00:23:56.259 --> 00:23:57.220
intellectual property

00:23:57.259 --> 00:23:58.901
department yeah that's

00:23:58.921 --> 00:23:59.421
actually a really good

00:23:59.441 --> 00:24:00.122
point actually being

00:24:00.162 --> 00:24:00.981
country specific because

00:24:01.001 --> 00:24:02.742
then I said before around

00:24:02.762 --> 00:24:04.003
you have to have you have

00:24:04.044 --> 00:24:05.724
to have recognition right

00:24:05.765 --> 00:24:07.586
like you have to be viewed

00:24:07.645 --> 00:24:09.047
as an organization or as a

00:24:09.346 --> 00:24:11.269
as a data source that can

00:24:11.288 --> 00:24:12.829
be trusted and and felt

00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:14.510
that that there's accurate

00:24:14.550 --> 00:24:15.351
information coming out of

00:24:15.371 --> 00:24:16.332
that but really you have to

00:24:16.372 --> 00:24:17.853
do that in every country

00:24:18.597 --> 00:24:20.420
because each country,

00:24:21.101 --> 00:24:22.182
if it does go to court,

00:24:22.201 --> 00:24:22.981
just because somebody,

00:24:23.222 --> 00:24:23.803
like you said before,

00:24:23.823 --> 00:24:25.424
like that example of TikTok or something,

00:24:25.444 --> 00:24:26.826
just because China said, so US would say,

00:24:26.846 --> 00:24:28.067
I don't give, it doesn't matter, right?

00:24:28.107 --> 00:24:29.449
Like US courts would not look at that,

00:24:29.489 --> 00:24:29.648
right?

00:24:29.669 --> 00:24:30.630
So that means you basically

00:24:30.650 --> 00:24:33.613
have to relitigate that in

00:24:33.673 --> 00:24:34.673
every single organization

00:24:34.753 --> 00:24:36.175
or every country where that might come up,

00:24:36.215 --> 00:24:36.355
right?

00:24:37.102 --> 00:24:37.903
Yes.

00:24:38.423 --> 00:24:39.905
So actually, just sorry,

00:24:39.925 --> 00:24:41.907
just to add on like cross region,

00:24:42.348 --> 00:24:45.373
cross region, law suiting is very hard.

00:24:45.732 --> 00:24:46.673
It's extremely hard.

00:24:46.693 --> 00:24:47.736
It would be impossible, right?

00:24:48.016 --> 00:24:48.115
Yeah.

00:24:48.457 --> 00:24:49.258
It's possible,

00:24:49.298 --> 00:24:51.339
but it will take a very long

00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:53.303
time for both parties to collaborate,

00:24:53.722 --> 00:24:54.944
to cooperate together.

00:24:55.365 --> 00:24:55.845
Right.

00:24:56.025 --> 00:24:56.205
Yeah.

00:24:56.246 --> 00:24:57.405
So one of my relative

00:24:57.465 --> 00:24:58.386
actually fall into this

00:24:58.487 --> 00:25:01.307
pitfall or like this black

00:25:01.327 --> 00:25:04.069
hole of cross region

00:25:04.970 --> 00:25:06.951
intellectual property suiting cases.

00:25:07.291 --> 00:25:09.252
So I know exactly how painful it is.

00:25:09.353 --> 00:25:11.114
Like you want both party to

00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:13.820
um, consent to the evidence.

00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:15.221
So that take a lot of time.

00:25:15.561 --> 00:25:15.781
Unless,

00:25:15.961 --> 00:25:17.883
unless the IP holder actually has

00:25:18.282 --> 00:25:19.304
properties in those regions.

00:25:19.344 --> 00:25:20.845
Like I, like nobody can use,

00:25:21.045 --> 00:25:22.045
nobody's using Mickey mouse

00:25:22.085 --> 00:25:23.145
and fucking any,

00:25:23.266 --> 00:25:23.925
like they're not using it

00:25:23.965 --> 00:25:25.106
anywhere because Disney has

00:25:25.126 --> 00:25:26.626
a foothold in every single country.

00:25:26.688 --> 00:25:26.887
Right.

00:25:26.928 --> 00:25:28.067
So they're going to protect

00:25:28.087 --> 00:25:29.568
that IP no matter what, but,

00:25:30.068 --> 00:25:31.730
but not everybody can do that obviously.

00:25:31.769 --> 00:25:31.990
Right.

00:25:32.029 --> 00:25:34.811
So, so, so if, if I'm an IP holder,

00:25:35.771 --> 00:25:38.457
on story in the US on story, right?

00:25:38.497 --> 00:25:39.317
Or I have things that are in

00:25:39.337 --> 00:25:40.058
there in terms of that.

00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:42.762
Does that help me protect

00:25:42.782 --> 00:25:46.128
copyrights in Saudi Arabia

00:25:46.169 --> 00:25:47.651
or in China or anywhere else?

00:25:48.031 --> 00:25:49.114
Does that make it at least easier?

00:25:50.249 --> 00:25:51.770
I think at the moment we

00:25:51.790 --> 00:25:54.294
haven't really touched base on that side.

00:25:54.493 --> 00:25:56.276
I think it's on the roadmap.

00:25:56.855 --> 00:25:58.117
I believe we still need to

00:25:58.178 --> 00:26:00.299
work step by step rather

00:26:00.339 --> 00:26:02.142
than directly jumping into

00:26:02.321 --> 00:26:05.025
region specific copyright.

00:26:05.085 --> 00:26:07.106
So first off, that's why we actually used

00:26:08.172 --> 00:26:11.593
US copyright law or US

00:26:11.972 --> 00:26:13.134
intellectual property law

00:26:13.233 --> 00:26:15.433
as the first step to remap on chain,

00:26:15.693 --> 00:26:17.234
allowing us to understand

00:26:17.295 --> 00:26:19.976
how this intellectual property law works.

00:26:20.915 --> 00:26:22.376
That's cool.

00:26:22.416 --> 00:26:23.237
Is the US one of the most

00:26:24.096 --> 00:26:25.478
lax or the most strict when

00:26:25.538 --> 00:26:26.178
it comes to that stuff?

00:26:26.865 --> 00:26:28.567
I think I believe it's I

00:26:28.607 --> 00:26:30.671
believe it's most consider

00:26:30.990 --> 00:26:32.553
Disney has one of the Disney.

00:26:32.792 --> 00:26:34.434
So two company has the most

00:26:34.474 --> 00:26:36.218
strongest legal team in

00:26:36.258 --> 00:26:38.079
terms of intellectual property.

00:26:38.621 --> 00:26:39.240
One is Disney.

00:26:39.381 --> 00:26:40.383
The other one is Nintendo.

00:26:42.587 --> 00:26:44.429
They are literally the two company has,

00:26:44.469 --> 00:26:47.130
you know, the strongest legal team.

00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:47.710
So if we,

00:26:47.789 --> 00:26:50.050
so American probably is the side

00:26:50.090 --> 00:26:51.730
of Disney and then Japan is

00:26:51.790 --> 00:26:53.211
the side of Nintendo.

00:26:53.570 --> 00:26:55.392
But still Nintendo has a US base.

00:26:55.711 --> 00:26:58.073
So I believe that America is

00:26:58.093 --> 00:26:59.913
still considered as the

00:26:59.992 --> 00:27:03.013
most mature intellectual property law.

00:27:03.034 --> 00:27:04.513
Right.

00:27:04.554 --> 00:27:10.076
So for something, let's say I have a book.

00:27:10.571 --> 00:27:13.553
that I wrote or a world that

00:27:13.573 --> 00:27:14.813
I wrote like Jar Jar or Martin,

00:27:15.292 --> 00:27:16.233
would there be a way for me

00:27:16.294 --> 00:27:18.834
to submit my provenance on

00:27:18.894 --> 00:27:19.753
chain so that other people

00:27:19.773 --> 00:27:20.494
could verify it?

00:27:20.934 --> 00:27:22.474
Like say I want to create an

00:27:22.494 --> 00:27:24.096
NFT of my like a hundred

00:27:24.135 --> 00:27:24.816
books that are first

00:27:24.836 --> 00:27:25.476
edition that come with like

00:27:25.536 --> 00:27:26.175
a physical book.

00:27:28.156 --> 00:27:29.156
Is there any way people

00:27:29.176 --> 00:27:31.557
could check on chain that I

00:27:31.718 --> 00:27:33.857
am indeed said author and

00:27:33.938 --> 00:27:35.138
prove provenance without

00:27:35.199 --> 00:27:36.999
having to go on my website

00:27:37.298 --> 00:27:40.220
or do like web two things?

00:27:43.224 --> 00:27:44.486
I think it will be strongly

00:27:45.086 --> 00:27:46.586
bounded to your wallet,

00:27:46.767 --> 00:27:48.087
like how you set up your

00:27:48.607 --> 00:27:50.509
identity linking to your wallet.

00:27:50.568 --> 00:27:52.390
I still think identity side

00:27:52.470 --> 00:27:53.651
is very off-chain.

00:27:53.790 --> 00:27:57.252
Unless we are moving from an

00:27:58.133 --> 00:27:59.173
off-chain world to an

00:27:59.894 --> 00:28:03.316
on-chain kind of a password situation,

00:28:03.896 --> 00:28:05.096
where I heard Singapore

00:28:05.156 --> 00:28:08.118
will start rolling out on-chain identity.

00:28:09.070 --> 00:28:10.751
in the future so if we

00:28:10.791 --> 00:28:11.791
actually have an on-chain

00:28:11.852 --> 00:28:13.272
identity that proving you

00:28:13.292 --> 00:28:15.554
are like a kyc or um you

00:28:15.574 --> 00:28:17.575
know like know your

00:28:17.595 --> 00:28:19.435
customer then then I

00:28:19.455 --> 00:28:21.457
believe it works but other

00:28:21.497 --> 00:28:23.478
than that in real scenario

00:28:23.637 --> 00:28:24.959
we still need to use your

00:28:25.038 --> 00:28:26.680
off-chain identity to prove

00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:27.839
that you are the owner of

00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.421
the wallet and then you are

00:28:29.621 --> 00:28:31.021
you are then proving that

00:28:31.102 --> 00:28:33.563
you are the owner of the piece of work

00:28:34.214 --> 00:28:35.395
So there's no easy way to

00:28:35.496 --> 00:28:37.558
actually validate that.

00:28:37.598 --> 00:28:39.140
Otherwise, it will be TK password.

00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:39.259
Yeah.

00:28:41.643 --> 00:28:43.884
So will story be dealing

00:28:43.904 --> 00:28:45.426
with identities directly,

00:28:45.626 --> 00:28:46.468
or use something like

00:28:46.988 --> 00:28:48.068
checked protocol in order

00:28:48.089 --> 00:28:49.290
to handle identities?

00:28:50.580 --> 00:28:52.521
I believe we don't do it

00:28:52.561 --> 00:28:54.182
directly at the moment.

00:28:54.202 --> 00:28:56.263
It's still yet to be discussed.

00:28:56.403 --> 00:28:57.904
But I think working with

00:28:57.924 --> 00:28:59.905
Startup Party always helps

00:28:59.967 --> 00:29:04.068
us to reinvent the wheels.

00:29:04.991 --> 00:29:07.994
And also, we do have a dispute model.

00:29:08.336 --> 00:29:10.999
A lot of staking protocol is

00:29:11.019 --> 00:29:11.799
working with us.

00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:14.722
One is creating this economic trust,

00:29:15.163 --> 00:29:17.025
so further leverage on top

00:29:17.085 --> 00:29:18.326
of trust factor.

00:29:18.787 --> 00:29:21.150
And then you also have the

00:29:21.851 --> 00:29:23.732
module to dispute on IP.

00:29:24.457 --> 00:29:26.219
So if people think that you

00:29:26.358 --> 00:29:27.880
infringed other work,

00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:29.102
they can always provide

00:29:29.221 --> 00:29:31.124
evidence and more evidence

00:29:31.144 --> 00:29:33.566
provided by the community member.

00:29:33.685 --> 00:29:35.488
Then probably actually means

00:29:35.528 --> 00:29:37.789
you're infringing existing IP off chain.

00:29:37.809 --> 00:29:39.932
Wait, they're staking.

00:29:40.413 --> 00:29:42.234
So I submit a book.

00:29:43.036 --> 00:29:43.476
Yeah.

00:29:43.516 --> 00:29:44.797
My wallet.

00:29:44.856 --> 00:29:45.857
And then someone can stake.

00:29:47.644 --> 00:29:49.925
to my IP and say, this is valid?

00:29:50.685 --> 00:29:52.907
And then other people can anti-stake,

00:29:52.928 --> 00:29:53.709
they can dispute it.

00:29:53.989 --> 00:29:54.648
So, okay.

00:29:54.689 --> 00:29:56.851
So I guess two follow-up questions there.

00:29:57.332 --> 00:29:59.032
One, for staking, do you get rewards?

00:29:59.053 --> 00:30:00.173
And if you get rewards, where does it,

00:30:00.213 --> 00:30:01.035
where the rewards come from?

00:30:01.115 --> 00:30:01.615
Is there like,

00:30:02.214 --> 00:30:03.876
is part of the staking

00:30:03.977 --> 00:30:05.077
rewards in general just

00:30:05.097 --> 00:30:07.038
siphoned off for those staking to IP?

00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.721
And two, what happens during a dispute?

00:30:10.781 --> 00:30:11.863
Like how does that,

00:30:12.784 --> 00:30:13.765
like who moderates that?

00:30:15.209 --> 00:30:18.130
Um, so first, first question, um, so, uh,

00:30:18.290 --> 00:30:22.291
similar to like, um, Lido or, uh, Lido or,

00:30:22.512 --> 00:30:24.153
um, other staking module, you actually,

00:30:24.173 --> 00:30:26.493
because it's a proof, uh, delegation,

00:30:26.534 --> 00:30:29.655
proof of stake, um, mechanism, um,

00:30:29.695 --> 00:30:30.215
consensus.

00:30:30.276 --> 00:30:34.117
So you actually can gain, um, APY that, um,

00:30:34.198 --> 00:30:34.897
like, uh,

00:30:34.958 --> 00:30:37.019
actually staking reward directly from,

00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:38.220
from the, um,

00:30:38.259 --> 00:30:39.520
staking protocol and then

00:30:39.560 --> 00:30:40.800
from the validators.

00:30:41.781 --> 00:30:42.501
Um, and then, um.

00:30:43.996 --> 00:30:46.417
And then the, so, so sorry.

00:30:46.538 --> 00:30:49.059
Um, so from, from, from the, from, from,

00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:49.861
from the blockchain.

00:30:51.582 --> 00:30:51.801
Okay.

00:30:51.882 --> 00:30:53.383
So you can't stick with the IP,

00:30:53.403 --> 00:30:53.823
you stick with the

00:30:53.864 --> 00:30:55.684
validator and a validator

00:30:55.724 --> 00:30:56.486
kind of backs an IP.

00:30:57.226 --> 00:30:58.946
Actually you stake on top of IP.

00:30:59.007 --> 00:31:00.608
So you stay directly into the IP.

00:31:01.789 --> 00:31:05.011
So, so, so then, um, then they, um,

00:31:05.051 --> 00:31:05.652
so for example,

00:31:05.813 --> 00:31:07.213
our staking protocol will

00:31:07.273 --> 00:31:08.314
work with validators.

00:31:09.035 --> 00:31:10.076
So.

00:31:10.115 --> 00:31:10.476
Got it.

00:31:11.096 --> 00:31:11.336
Okay.

00:31:11.396 --> 00:31:12.498
So it kind of treats it like a.

00:31:14.701 --> 00:31:17.622
You're sticking out.

00:31:17.682 --> 00:31:18.261
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:18.301 --> 00:31:19.241
We talked about that elsewhere, too,

00:31:19.281 --> 00:31:19.382
right?

00:31:19.402 --> 00:31:21.222
Like the other teams are trying to do that,

00:31:21.262 --> 00:31:21.423
too.

00:31:21.482 --> 00:31:23.624
Or you find which I guess

00:31:23.683 --> 00:31:26.805
there it was more around the possible.

00:31:26.924 --> 00:31:28.105
It wasn't necessarily an IP

00:31:28.144 --> 00:31:29.025
related fashion, right?

00:31:29.045 --> 00:31:29.884
It was something that might

00:31:29.944 --> 00:31:31.546
have an increase in value over time.

00:31:32.269 --> 00:31:33.230
not, not, I'm not talking about story.

00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:34.030
I'm not talking about story.

00:31:34.711 --> 00:31:36.353
Like they were talking about like, Hey,

00:31:36.393 --> 00:31:37.453
I have this, I had this NFT and this NFT,

00:31:37.993 --> 00:31:38.233
you know,

00:31:38.253 --> 00:31:39.715
is aligned to maybe a real world

00:31:39.736 --> 00:31:40.455
asset or it's aligned to

00:31:40.476 --> 00:31:41.376
something else has a

00:31:41.396 --> 00:31:42.136
specific value to it.

00:31:42.156 --> 00:31:42.998
I want to stake to that.

00:31:43.057 --> 00:31:44.759
And as that, as that value grows,

00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:47.520
the overall mint that occurs that,

00:31:47.641 --> 00:31:49.163
that portion of that reward

00:31:49.182 --> 00:31:50.343
that gets distributed out

00:31:50.403 --> 00:31:51.765
to staked items.

00:31:51.805 --> 00:31:52.644
And then this one is the

00:31:52.684 --> 00:31:54.586
value of X versus the total

00:31:54.866 --> 00:31:55.867
Y. And so therefore it

00:31:55.907 --> 00:31:57.028
increases in value and I

00:31:57.048 --> 00:31:58.189
make money type of idea.

00:31:58.229 --> 00:31:58.409
Right.

00:31:58.849 --> 00:31:59.190
So that,

00:31:59.609 --> 00:32:01.090
and you said you can anti-stake though.

00:32:01.291 --> 00:32:01.571
What is,

00:32:02.354 --> 00:32:05.122
It's not anti-stake.

00:32:05.182 --> 00:32:06.465
It's about raising a dispute.

00:32:07.074 --> 00:32:11.117
oh okay okay so so yeah so

00:32:11.917 --> 00:32:14.299
you can't anti-state you

00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:15.320
can't okay all right that

00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:19.124
would be crazy to be honest

00:32:19.163 --> 00:32:20.505
the whole idea behind

00:32:20.545 --> 00:32:22.247
staking on ip is to create

00:32:22.267 --> 00:32:23.887
this trust factor right so

00:32:23.948 --> 00:32:25.068
if you actually trust that

00:32:25.169 --> 00:32:26.450
this is the original piece

00:32:26.529 --> 00:32:28.271
over obviously you you want

00:32:28.291 --> 00:32:29.472
to stake in and then so

00:32:29.732 --> 00:32:30.834
when the ip become more

00:32:30.874 --> 00:32:32.154
famous you gain more

00:32:33.877 --> 00:32:36.740
you gain more rewards from your stake.

00:32:37.059 --> 00:32:38.060
But also at the same time,

00:32:38.161 --> 00:32:39.461
people can dispute on top

00:32:39.501 --> 00:32:41.604
of the IP because if they

00:32:41.703 --> 00:32:43.705
found out evidence and then

00:32:43.746 --> 00:32:44.467
they can dispute,

00:32:44.507 --> 00:32:46.208
they provide the evidence and community,

00:32:46.407 --> 00:32:48.069
I think currently speaking,

00:32:48.130 --> 00:32:50.291
community will vote because

00:32:50.592 --> 00:32:52.554
we cannot be a centralized

00:32:52.713 --> 00:32:54.275
authority to judge the

00:32:54.335 --> 00:32:55.997
whole dispute process.

00:32:56.356 --> 00:32:57.538
It's more like a community

00:32:57.597 --> 00:32:58.538
engagement process

00:32:59.378 --> 00:32:59.838
process.

00:33:00.959 --> 00:33:02.920
So we are working on a

00:33:03.019 --> 00:33:05.641
refactor of current dispute module.

00:33:06.080 --> 00:33:08.000
So we haven't yet came out

00:33:08.060 --> 00:33:11.362
to be the final idea.

00:33:11.382 --> 00:33:12.142
So would that go through

00:33:12.162 --> 00:33:13.281
like the governance module

00:33:13.321 --> 00:33:14.221
for doing a dispute?

00:33:14.241 --> 00:33:15.742
Because putting the power of

00:33:15.782 --> 00:33:17.222
disputes within validator sands,

00:33:17.663 --> 00:33:18.423
it's not there.

00:33:18.722 --> 00:33:19.243
Don't do it.

00:33:19.443 --> 00:33:20.703
Yeah, yeah.

00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:25.123
so I I so if I from my from

00:33:25.182 --> 00:33:26.944
my like uh imagination it

00:33:26.964 --> 00:33:28.467
will be more like uh it's

00:33:28.686 --> 00:33:29.887
still a very hard question

00:33:29.928 --> 00:33:32.171
right um how how much how

00:33:32.211 --> 00:33:33.571
much um community members

00:33:33.592 --> 00:33:34.752
should be engaged in this

00:33:34.772 --> 00:33:36.034
uh you can't you can't

00:33:36.075 --> 00:33:37.236
really engage the the

00:33:37.276 --> 00:33:39.218
stakers you you need to

00:33:39.337 --> 00:33:40.818
engage a slightly more

00:33:40.898 --> 00:33:42.121
community member in order

00:33:42.181 --> 00:33:43.582
to make it as more than

00:33:43.642 --> 00:33:45.203
fifty percent um voting

00:33:45.882 --> 00:33:47.182
and then but if you engage

00:33:47.781 --> 00:33:49.863
primarily uh stakers on

00:33:50.002 --> 00:33:51.063
sticking on that ip

00:33:51.103 --> 00:33:52.203
probably they don't want to

00:33:52.223 --> 00:33:53.364
get this because when they

00:33:53.403 --> 00:33:55.144
get dispute um you'll get

00:33:55.163 --> 00:33:58.045
slashed so um I do think um

00:33:58.184 --> 00:33:59.744
it's a harder question now

00:33:59.984 --> 00:34:01.846
just to think more kind of

00:34:01.865 --> 00:34:03.645
a matured module in order

00:34:03.685 --> 00:34:05.007
to figure out like who

00:34:05.287 --> 00:34:06.987
who's able or who who has

00:34:07.047 --> 00:34:09.106
the rights to invoke get

00:34:09.146 --> 00:34:11.208
involved in such a dispute decision

00:34:11.851 --> 00:34:11.931
Yeah,

00:34:11.952 --> 00:34:14.434
you're basically taking regular

00:34:14.494 --> 00:34:15.233
individuals and turning

00:34:15.253 --> 00:34:16.434
them into IP patent lawyers.

00:34:17.235 --> 00:34:17.436
Yeah.

00:34:18.215 --> 00:34:18.376
Right?

00:34:18.396 --> 00:34:20.056
Which is not professional.

00:34:21.378 --> 00:34:22.498
It's dangerous, actually,

00:34:22.518 --> 00:34:23.259
in some of those areas,

00:34:23.278 --> 00:34:23.920
because you might have...

00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:26.721
you might not be, I mean, nobody,

00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:29.021
number one, nobody understands IP law.

00:34:29.081 --> 00:34:29.963
Number two, people could,

00:34:29.983 --> 00:34:30.884
could also say that it

00:34:30.903 --> 00:34:32.724
shouldn't exist in the U S like,

00:34:32.905 --> 00:34:34.085
like it should go away.

00:34:34.126 --> 00:34:35.246
Like the idea of like,

00:34:35.286 --> 00:34:36.228
especially in the amount of

00:34:36.288 --> 00:34:37.469
patent trolls and shit like that.

00:34:38.409 --> 00:34:40.030
I think this, this, this doesn't,

00:34:40.190 --> 00:34:41.672
this goes towards solving that.

00:34:41.831 --> 00:34:43.072
Let me make sure I understand.

00:34:43.092 --> 00:34:43.432
I say that.

00:34:44.313 --> 00:34:46.315
But there's not a lot of love for IP.

00:34:46.695 --> 00:34:46.896
Right.

00:34:47.936 --> 00:34:48.717
And if you get,

00:34:48.858 --> 00:34:50.378
if you get like the wrong type of,

00:34:51.242 --> 00:34:52.382
group of pitchforks in there

00:34:52.402 --> 00:34:52.983
you might have somebody

00:34:53.043 --> 00:34:53.963
slashed on something that's

00:34:54.003 --> 00:34:55.023
totally valid right at

00:34:55.063 --> 00:34:56.184
least might not be liked

00:34:56.804 --> 00:34:58.626
but but what is actually

00:34:58.726 --> 00:34:59.746
legal versus what is

00:35:00.005 --> 00:35:02.967
correct is or what is um

00:35:03.007 --> 00:35:04.068
what is legal versus what

00:35:04.108 --> 00:35:06.047
is right might not be at

00:35:06.088 --> 00:35:07.369
all the same thing right

00:35:07.528 --> 00:35:09.250
like there's a there's tons

00:35:09.289 --> 00:35:10.170
of fucking examples of

00:35:10.190 --> 00:35:10.869
those two being on the

00:35:10.929 --> 00:35:12.411
opposite ends of of what's

00:35:12.451 --> 00:35:13.650
going on so that would be

00:35:13.751 --> 00:35:14.351
that would be really that

00:35:14.371 --> 00:35:15.492
would be an interesting experiment

00:35:16.351 --> 00:35:17.293
um and the other thing is

00:35:17.313 --> 00:35:18.673
like I gotta be curious on

00:35:18.693 --> 00:35:20.715
what like if that helps or

00:35:20.735 --> 00:35:21.817
hurts from a court

00:35:21.856 --> 00:35:24.139
perspective um on the

00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:25.500
validity of the platform

00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:26.161
and those types of things

00:35:26.181 --> 00:35:26.802
too you know what I mean

00:35:26.822 --> 00:35:27.983
because like yeah then

00:35:28.023 --> 00:35:28.882
people then you have like

00:35:28.943 --> 00:35:30.105
lawyers arguing that well

00:35:30.125 --> 00:35:31.005
this is not a real thing

00:35:31.025 --> 00:35:31.885
because it's this community

00:35:31.925 --> 00:35:33.206
driven and people are

00:35:33.226 --> 00:35:34.327
making decisions and people

00:35:34.347 --> 00:35:35.668
are losing their portion of

00:35:35.688 --> 00:35:36.849
their ip value because of

00:35:37.331 --> 00:35:38.052
blah blah blah you know

00:35:38.072 --> 00:35:39.193
what I mean you open up

00:35:39.213 --> 00:35:40.333
like all these doors but

00:35:41.347 --> 00:35:42.688
It's such a, like,

00:35:42.708 --> 00:35:43.909
this is such a messy area.

00:35:46.489 --> 00:35:48.311
It's a really tough problem to solve.

00:35:48.351 --> 00:35:50.333
Like, oh wait, blockchain, no blockchain.

00:35:50.353 --> 00:35:51.793
This is like a really tough problem.

00:35:52.664 --> 00:35:54.447
Yeah, it's actually a, yeah, again,

00:35:54.487 --> 00:35:56.527
like it's actually a, it's,

00:35:56.688 --> 00:35:58.230
it's a real problem to be honest.

00:35:58.250 --> 00:35:58.650
Oh, for sure.

00:35:59.230 --> 00:35:59.391
Yeah.

00:35:59.411 --> 00:35:59.550
Yeah.

00:35:59.610 --> 00:36:00.672
It's like a lot of people

00:36:00.692 --> 00:36:01.492
doesn't understand IP.

00:36:01.652 --> 00:36:02.532
Of course, like they,

00:36:02.552 --> 00:36:04.534
they don't engage with IP, right.

00:36:04.554 --> 00:36:05.576
They like only,

00:36:05.675 --> 00:36:06.936
only if you start to like

00:36:06.976 --> 00:36:08.137
having your creation and

00:36:08.157 --> 00:36:09.998
then somebody started violating your,

00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:11.340
your rights on your creation.

00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:12.902
And then you start actually realizing,

00:36:12.981 --> 00:36:13.322
damn,

00:36:13.422 --> 00:36:16.324
my IP matters because this is this

00:36:16.364 --> 00:36:16.844
is home.

00:36:18.423 --> 00:36:20.465
How I describe IP kind of

00:36:20.585 --> 00:36:22.405
issue is it's really about economic.

00:36:23.186 --> 00:36:25.387
It's more economic than ever.

00:36:25.806 --> 00:36:28.108
Like about your earnings,

00:36:28.148 --> 00:36:29.307
about your money gain,

00:36:29.387 --> 00:36:30.528
and then about your profit.

00:36:30.608 --> 00:36:32.228
And then people start realizing, damn,

00:36:32.949 --> 00:36:33.949
it's an issue.

00:36:34.349 --> 00:36:35.451
I need to solve this issue

00:36:35.490 --> 00:36:36.731
in order to gain back my

00:36:38.552 --> 00:36:41.253
portion of revenue.

00:36:41.393 --> 00:36:41.552
Yeah.

00:36:42.891 --> 00:36:43.112
Yeah.

00:36:43.132 --> 00:36:43.572
The other thing is,

00:36:43.813 --> 00:36:45.112
is the other thing that's interesting,

00:36:45.353 --> 00:36:45.534
which,

00:36:46.153 --> 00:36:48.034
which is the timing of this whole thing,

00:36:48.074 --> 00:36:50.795
which is back in Schulte's book example,

00:36:51.597 --> 00:36:52.818
like if this came up ten

00:36:52.858 --> 00:36:53.998
years ago and Schulte

00:36:54.018 --> 00:36:56.059
writes a book and we, you know, we, we,

00:36:56.318 --> 00:36:56.940
we somehow.

00:36:58.222 --> 00:36:58.923
We hash that,

00:36:58.943 --> 00:37:01.465
we put a shop somewhere and it says, hey,

00:37:01.485 --> 00:37:02.646
this is Schulze's book.

00:37:03.007 --> 00:37:04.007
We can verify the text and

00:37:04.027 --> 00:37:05.048
here's a hash of that.

00:37:05.108 --> 00:37:06.409
And so we can put that as an

00:37:06.469 --> 00:37:08.710
NFT and we can verify that at this point,

00:37:09.351 --> 00:37:10.612
Schulze wrote this book

00:37:10.632 --> 00:37:12.074
that has this content, right?

00:37:12.134 --> 00:37:12.695
We know that.

00:37:13.655 --> 00:37:15.496
But today when you talk

00:37:15.516 --> 00:37:16.878
about like LLMs and like

00:37:16.958 --> 00:37:18.099
image generators and those

00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:18.699
types of things,

00:37:19.534 --> 00:37:22.096
Like I could do fucking dog with hat,

00:37:22.677 --> 00:37:22.916
right?

00:37:23.137 --> 00:37:25.018
And shove that into an image generator,

00:37:25.539 --> 00:37:27.681
generate ten million variations of that,

00:37:27.762 --> 00:37:30.143
put them all into story.

00:37:30.885 --> 00:37:33.387
And then at some point a year from now,

00:37:33.427 --> 00:37:34.387
somebody was dog with hat

00:37:34.748 --> 00:37:35.869
and I go after him and said, look,

00:37:36.389 --> 00:37:36.869
I created this.

00:37:37.170 --> 00:37:37.431
Yes,

00:37:37.530 --> 00:37:38.731
I also created twenty two other

00:37:38.751 --> 00:37:39.432
million of those.

00:37:40.501 --> 00:37:42.481
But this one is totally the same.

00:37:42.501 --> 00:37:44.483
It has the same, it's the same dog.

00:37:44.503 --> 00:37:45.603
It has the same fucking hat.

00:37:45.643 --> 00:37:46.905
It has the same logo because

00:37:47.246 --> 00:37:48.045
it's just like thousand

00:37:48.085 --> 00:37:49.286
monkeys and a thousand typewriters.

00:37:49.327 --> 00:37:49.487
Right.

00:37:50.047 --> 00:37:53.949
So, so like, that's a whole, like that.

00:37:53.969 --> 00:37:55.411
So there's a lot of conversation.

00:37:55.451 --> 00:37:55.811
We've had extra

00:37:55.851 --> 00:37:56.731
conversations in here about like,

00:37:56.771 --> 00:37:57.972
what does IP even mean?

00:37:58.032 --> 00:38:00.173
Because is it the output of that?

00:38:00.273 --> 00:38:02.034
Is it the input to get to that piece?

00:38:02.094 --> 00:38:02.376
And like,

00:38:02.396 --> 00:38:03.615
as you start this LM thing and

00:38:03.635 --> 00:38:05.137
now you have this massive

00:38:05.898 --> 00:38:06.759
engine generator that's

00:38:06.818 --> 00:38:08.018
generating all this stuff,

00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:10.280
like what is actual IP anymore?

00:38:10.641 --> 00:38:11.543
Like, where does that fit in?

00:38:11.563 --> 00:38:13.007
And so it's a tough time to, it's even,

00:38:13.027 --> 00:38:13.228
it's like,

00:38:13.288 --> 00:38:14.451
it's a weird time to actually

00:38:14.992 --> 00:38:15.813
like get into this too,

00:38:15.835 --> 00:38:17.318
because you have like this, this issue,

00:38:17.338 --> 00:38:17.478
right?

00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.360
I think it's because of that.

00:38:20.501 --> 00:38:22.242
It's even a better timing

00:38:22.322 --> 00:38:23.744
because we're trying to

00:38:23.784 --> 00:38:27.606
validate like doing the process of using,

00:38:27.666 --> 00:38:28.746
for example, LLM.

00:38:29.166 --> 00:38:31.608
So which part you actually start creating,

00:38:31.668 --> 00:38:31.849
right?

00:38:31.929 --> 00:38:33.570
Obviously, we talk about the data,

00:38:33.809 --> 00:38:35.090
data ownership of your...

00:38:35.331 --> 00:38:37.233
So I think IP is beyond

00:38:37.652 --> 00:38:38.532
like about creation.

00:38:38.592 --> 00:38:40.173
It's also like your data.

00:38:40.594 --> 00:38:42.615
So we always talk that data

00:38:42.715 --> 00:38:45.117
ownership and then beyond

00:38:45.157 --> 00:38:47.039
that and also like model ownership.

00:38:47.929 --> 00:38:50.550
So I came from an AI WebSuite company.

00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:54.771
So there's actually, even within AI field,

00:38:55.172 --> 00:38:56.612
there's a strong debate on

00:38:56.853 --> 00:38:57.932
the data ownership.

00:38:58.793 --> 00:39:01.014
Like we scrape all the open

00:39:01.054 --> 00:39:03.114
web data to create such a

00:39:03.153 --> 00:39:04.635
big model and also to make

00:39:04.695 --> 00:39:06.534
these model more clever and

00:39:06.554 --> 00:39:08.295
then more like human.

00:39:09.465 --> 00:39:11.389
But where does data ownership came from?

00:39:11.969 --> 00:39:14.914
Do we ever authorize them to

00:39:15.134 --> 00:39:16.175
use our creation?

00:39:16.215 --> 00:39:18.298
Because humans are generating

00:39:19.820 --> 00:39:21.360
generating data every second,

00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:22.501
like we are here streaming.

00:39:22.561 --> 00:39:24.302
So every second we stream here,

00:39:24.382 --> 00:39:25.882
every words we talk here,

00:39:26.123 --> 00:39:27.704
it's a proportion of data

00:39:28.264 --> 00:39:29.344
contributing to the open

00:39:29.405 --> 00:39:30.985
web that will be shared

00:39:31.025 --> 00:39:32.586
around to many people.

00:39:32.927 --> 00:39:34.327
So do we actually own these

00:39:34.347 --> 00:39:35.349
data we created?

00:39:35.528 --> 00:39:36.628
Because if we are not here

00:39:36.708 --> 00:39:38.170
to talk about this,

00:39:38.449 --> 00:39:39.891
talk about or use this stream,

00:39:39.971 --> 00:39:41.072
probably this proportion of

00:39:41.112 --> 00:39:42.793
data will not exist, right?

00:39:43.293 --> 00:39:44.474
Yeah, nobody's watching it anyway,

00:39:44.494 --> 00:39:44.974
so it doesn't matter.

00:39:46.434 --> 00:39:47.476
Yeah, but still,

00:39:47.536 --> 00:39:49.916
we're here trying to create this episode.

00:39:52.818 --> 00:39:53.958
I think it's the

00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:55.360
authorization part of the

00:39:55.420 --> 00:39:56.300
ownership matters,

00:39:57.061 --> 00:39:59.202
authorizing that you are

00:39:59.222 --> 00:40:00.202
the owner of your data.

00:40:01.021 --> 00:40:02.583
And then the second part is

00:40:02.722 --> 00:40:04.105
so when you when you talk

00:40:04.125 --> 00:40:05.266
about like people creating

00:40:05.326 --> 00:40:07.867
like ten thousand of ten

00:40:07.887 --> 00:40:10.570
thousand different dog with a hat image,

00:40:10.710 --> 00:40:12.992
I think I think that takes time, right?

00:40:13.032 --> 00:40:14.052
That take a lot of time.

00:40:14.112 --> 00:40:16.494
Like you got to make it very good.

00:40:16.554 --> 00:40:18.315
And so on that, obviously,

00:40:18.835 --> 00:40:19.637
from my point of view,

00:40:19.677 --> 00:40:21.599
I see there's several ownership there,

00:40:21.978 --> 00:40:23.420
like the data used to train

00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:25.802
the model and then creator of the model.

00:40:25.922 --> 00:40:27.483
And then also the user will

00:40:27.623 --> 00:40:29.264
use prompt to generate those images.

00:40:29.746 --> 00:40:30.668
So there are three types of

00:40:31.250 --> 00:40:32.552
ownership we're looking at here.

00:40:33.014 --> 00:40:35.840
And then the output will

00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.166
definitely be part of the

00:40:41.344 --> 00:40:42.304
the main proportion of the

00:40:42.364 --> 00:40:43.485
ownership will flow into

00:40:43.525 --> 00:40:45.304
the user who prompt in,

00:40:45.824 --> 00:40:47.405
and then just a second part

00:40:47.485 --> 00:40:49.226
of proportion will be the data,

00:40:49.327 --> 00:40:52.427
and then last one will be the model.

00:40:52.447 --> 00:40:54.047
That's how I see this.

00:40:54.467 --> 00:40:57.949
So then, so GenAI, in GenAI era,

00:40:58.028 --> 00:41:03.170
we value the originality more, even more,

00:41:03.351 --> 00:41:07.632
because it's rare.

00:41:08.472 --> 00:41:09.432
It just become rare

00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:11.380
compared compared to like

00:41:11.420 --> 00:41:12.701
ten years ago when everyone

00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:14.460
used pen and paper to write

00:41:14.521 --> 00:41:16.601
a book now everyone trying

00:41:16.641 --> 00:41:18.382
to use um gen ai I believe

00:41:18.422 --> 00:41:20.061
like like similarly we're

00:41:20.081 --> 00:41:21.222
gonna we're gonna generate

00:41:21.242 --> 00:41:23.523
a lot of gen ai trash on on

00:41:23.663 --> 00:41:25.123
every on on in the internet

00:41:25.184 --> 00:41:26.744
already is already there

00:41:26.784 --> 00:41:29.184
already there are a lot

00:41:29.224 --> 00:41:31.005
already then um compared

00:41:31.025 --> 00:41:32.465
with um how we generate a

00:41:32.505 --> 00:41:34.106
lot of nft like um

00:41:34.750 --> 00:41:36.391
you know zero nft your own

00:41:36.431 --> 00:41:38.114
chain it's in a similar

00:41:38.353 --> 00:41:40.356
situation to be very honest

00:41:41.177 --> 00:41:43.880
yeah yeah it's gonna be

00:41:43.900 --> 00:41:45.681
interesting I think that um

00:41:47.782 --> 00:41:48.922
Yeah, I don't even know.

00:41:49.523 --> 00:41:50.443
I couldn't even predict, like,

00:41:50.483 --> 00:41:51.605
in the next ten years, like,

00:41:51.644 --> 00:41:53.385
related to all those issues

00:41:53.405 --> 00:41:53.945
you just mentioned.

00:41:53.985 --> 00:41:54.786
Like, number one,

00:41:54.827 --> 00:41:56.047
proving ownership of source

00:41:56.068 --> 00:41:57.387
data that went into an AI agent.

00:41:58.009 --> 00:41:59.809
Number two is the model.

00:42:00.429 --> 00:42:01.351
Is the model IP?

00:42:01.811 --> 00:42:02.931
The source data's IP?

00:42:03.331 --> 00:42:04.393
Is the output IP?

00:42:04.632 --> 00:42:04.913
And then...

00:42:06.552 --> 00:42:09.114
if that output has value,

00:42:09.914 --> 00:42:11.797
how do you even tie that back to say,

00:42:11.996 --> 00:42:13.018
this is the structure that

00:42:13.038 --> 00:42:13.818
came up with that, right?

00:42:14.500 --> 00:42:15.239
And I'm not even talking

00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:16.101
about like single images.

00:42:16.121 --> 00:42:18.003
I mean, I'm expecting,

00:42:18.943 --> 00:42:20.105
I'm already seeing short movies.

00:42:20.125 --> 00:42:22.447
I expect we'll see full

00:42:22.586 --> 00:42:23.588
length movies that come out

00:42:24.108 --> 00:42:25.449
That through those types of models,

00:42:25.989 --> 00:42:27.632
like there's going to be large,

00:42:27.932 --> 00:42:28.672
like we're going to make,

00:42:28.693 --> 00:42:29.414
it's going to be massive

00:42:29.434 --> 00:42:30.235
strides in the next ten

00:42:30.275 --> 00:42:31.056
years associated with some

00:42:31.076 --> 00:42:31.757
of these types of things.

00:42:32.858 --> 00:42:34.018
And the reality will increase.

00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:35.039
And then what does that

00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:36.001
reality really mean?

00:42:36.061 --> 00:42:36.802
And what are the source

00:42:36.842 --> 00:42:37.782
images that came from that?

00:42:38.344 --> 00:42:39.545
Like, it's just going to be a real,

00:42:39.865 --> 00:42:40.547
like it's a,

00:42:40.827 --> 00:42:42.088
I guess there's IP through all that,

00:42:42.128 --> 00:42:42.329
right?

00:42:42.528 --> 00:42:44.331
So it'll be interesting.

00:42:45.617 --> 00:42:45.838
Well,

00:42:45.978 --> 00:42:47.739
what's also interesting is that there

00:42:47.900 --> 00:42:50.061
already is something of a

00:42:50.121 --> 00:42:52.583
case study for derivative works, right?

00:42:52.983 --> 00:42:55.144
Like, what was it?

00:42:55.164 --> 00:42:58.867
Vanilla Ice used Under

00:42:58.907 --> 00:43:02.269
Pressure in doing... By who?

00:43:02.309 --> 00:43:04.612
Under Pressure by David Bowie.

00:43:05.552 --> 00:43:07.052
Queen.

00:43:07.072 --> 00:43:08.014
I thought they were both in it.

00:43:08.967 --> 00:43:10.128
I don't think Bowie was in it, was he?

00:43:10.889 --> 00:43:11.951
Anyway, go ahead.

00:43:12.150 --> 00:43:12.471
Anyway,

00:43:12.911 --> 00:43:14.172
so there's already like derivative works,

00:43:14.233 --> 00:43:14.373
right?

00:43:14.393 --> 00:43:16.235
And Vanilla Ice was sued for doing so,

00:43:16.414 --> 00:43:16.594
right?

00:43:16.614 --> 00:43:17.255
So we already know there's

00:43:17.275 --> 00:43:18.317
some sort of level case study.

00:43:18.777 --> 00:43:20.438
But the question really becomes like,

00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.460
what would the intellectual property be?

00:43:22.481 --> 00:43:23.442
Would it be the art itself?

00:43:23.561 --> 00:43:26.644
Or is the text that creates

00:43:26.985 --> 00:43:27.666
the generated...

00:43:28.731 --> 00:43:30.313
prompt is like would that be

00:43:30.373 --> 00:43:32.032
intellectual property like

00:43:32.052 --> 00:43:33.293
just the sequences of words

00:43:33.313 --> 00:43:34.733
that you used like that one

00:43:34.773 --> 00:43:36.414
guy he won that art contest

00:43:36.474 --> 00:43:38.115
using using ai that like

00:43:38.536 --> 00:43:40.076
that like space opera kind

00:43:40.115 --> 00:43:40.817
of image I don't keep

00:43:40.836 --> 00:43:42.637
seeing it I love it I think

00:43:42.657 --> 00:43:43.378
that I think the image is

00:43:43.398 --> 00:43:44.838
just fantastic but he's

00:43:44.878 --> 00:43:45.679
really upset because other

00:43:45.699 --> 00:43:46.798
people are using it and

00:43:46.818 --> 00:43:48.940
it's like do you have any

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.481
leg to stand on I don't know

00:43:52.646 --> 00:43:54.947
I think what matters in the

00:43:55.007 --> 00:43:56.409
end is actually about licensing.

00:43:56.628 --> 00:43:58.791
Like, if we can have a better, you know,

00:43:58.831 --> 00:44:00.972
transparent licensing model, like,

00:44:01.072 --> 00:44:02.835
attached to the creation,

00:44:03.034 --> 00:44:03.996
I think it will help a lot.

00:44:04.315 --> 00:44:05.818
It will genuinely help a lot

00:44:06.478 --> 00:44:07.059
in the future.

00:44:08.619 --> 00:44:09.181
I mean, like,

00:44:09.451 --> 00:44:11.172
when we obviously power bank

00:44:11.211 --> 00:44:12.211
happens because people

00:44:12.231 --> 00:44:13.253
doesn't want to pay but

00:44:13.612 --> 00:44:15.353
still a lot of a strong

00:44:15.393 --> 00:44:16.713
vast majority of the people

00:44:16.753 --> 00:44:17.934
who want to use the work

00:44:17.974 --> 00:44:20.054
but who cannot be able to

00:44:20.215 --> 00:44:21.436
like contact the original

00:44:21.556 --> 00:44:23.456
author or having us a long

00:44:23.516 --> 00:44:25.838
negotiation period um like

00:44:25.938 --> 00:44:27.577
who want to pay for it just

00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:29.159
couldn't pay then if we can

00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:30.860
have this um on chain like um

00:44:31.420 --> 00:44:32.880
like a decentralized

00:44:33.340 --> 00:44:35.081
licensing system it

00:44:35.121 --> 00:44:35.943
actually helped a lot you

00:44:35.983 --> 00:44:36.902
don't need to negotiate

00:44:36.922 --> 00:44:37.983
with the owner anymore all

00:44:38.003 --> 00:44:38.905
you need to know is whether

00:44:38.945 --> 00:44:40.144
you have enough funds to

00:44:40.184 --> 00:44:41.445
purchase the license token

00:44:42.005 --> 00:44:42.586
and then through that

00:44:42.626 --> 00:44:44.307
license you can we validate

00:44:44.347 --> 00:44:45.188
whether you have the rights

00:44:45.208 --> 00:44:45.989
to do stuff or not

00:44:46.487 --> 00:44:47.088
Yeah.

00:44:47.128 --> 00:44:47.309
Yeah.

00:44:47.628 --> 00:44:48.909
And I don't even know if it was payment.

00:44:48.989 --> 00:44:50.090
It's I don't think people

00:44:50.110 --> 00:44:50.951
have an issue with paying

00:44:50.990 --> 00:44:52.210
for items for the most part.

00:44:52.271 --> 00:44:52.771
I mean, some do.

00:44:52.811 --> 00:44:53.192
Don't get me wrong.

00:44:53.512 --> 00:44:55.012
I think it is a friction of that, though.

00:44:55.213 --> 00:44:55.952
I think what you hit on.

00:44:56.032 --> 00:44:56.213
Right.

00:44:56.273 --> 00:44:56.653
Like, Tim,

00:44:56.673 --> 00:44:58.155
I think that was that's exactly it.

00:44:58.195 --> 00:44:59.514
Like if if there's a way to

00:44:59.574 --> 00:45:00.655
reduce the friction and I

00:45:00.675 --> 00:45:01.476
can figure out how to even

00:45:01.536 --> 00:45:03.657
do that and I can use

00:45:03.677 --> 00:45:04.998
something in that situation,

00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:07.079
then then then and do that

00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:08.661
in a single serving type of effort.

00:45:09.240 --> 00:45:10.282
Because I think one of the

00:45:10.342 --> 00:45:11.762
areas that I get always

00:45:11.822 --> 00:45:12.784
pissed off at is image

00:45:12.824 --> 00:45:16.065
licensing from the large image licensors,

00:45:16.106 --> 00:45:17.306
where if you want to

00:45:17.347 --> 00:45:18.547
license a single use of an image,

00:45:18.588 --> 00:45:19.809
it's ridiculously expensive,

00:45:19.889 --> 00:45:21.510
or it gets pushed into a

00:45:21.570 --> 00:45:23.211
yearly subscription type of shit.

00:45:24.793 --> 00:45:26.594
and like like for anything

00:45:26.653 --> 00:45:27.554
and you just want to hey I

00:45:27.594 --> 00:45:28.914
want to be able to use an

00:45:28.954 --> 00:45:29.815
image for the website or I

00:45:29.835 --> 00:45:30.635
use it for something else

00:45:31.034 --> 00:45:32.554
and there's no simple way

00:45:32.596 --> 00:45:34.016
of being able to do that um

00:45:34.255 --> 00:45:36.117
because there's an or it

00:45:36.157 --> 00:45:37.817
requires too much data

00:45:37.856 --> 00:45:39.197
transfer or it requires me

00:45:39.217 --> 00:45:39.818
to buy a year-long

00:45:39.838 --> 00:45:40.757
subscription or something

00:45:40.838 --> 00:45:41.458
or it's just like the

00:45:41.518 --> 00:45:42.378
prices are ridiculously

00:45:42.438 --> 00:45:43.398
high because they want to

00:45:43.418 --> 00:45:44.278
get you in a subscription

00:45:44.739 --> 00:45:45.739
like those are all things

00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:46.420
that I think that

00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:48.740
that um that story could do

00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:49.340
well with I think

00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:50.222
blockchain does really well

00:45:50.242 --> 00:45:51.001
with too right because

00:45:51.021 --> 00:45:52.043
there's it's difficult to

00:45:52.103 --> 00:45:52.802
sell I mean I guess you

00:45:52.822 --> 00:45:53.742
could sell a subscription

00:45:53.762 --> 00:45:54.903
and in that chain but it

00:45:54.923 --> 00:45:55.925
would be I think it'd be

00:45:55.985 --> 00:45:57.085
difficult to do that right

00:45:57.105 --> 00:45:58.706
based on based on like

00:45:58.766 --> 00:46:00.206
trying to bundle and all

00:46:00.226 --> 00:46:01.067
this kind of stuff across

00:46:01.086 --> 00:46:02.208
this really complicated

00:46:02.668 --> 00:46:03.547
data set since you're gonna

00:46:03.568 --> 00:46:04.528
have more than just one

00:46:04.588 --> 00:46:07.469
type of of ip item you know

00:46:07.510 --> 00:46:11.532
so yeah totally agree look

00:46:11.592 --> 00:46:12.672
at look at somebody joined up

00:46:14.257 --> 00:46:14.757
Oh, hey, guys.

00:46:15.179 --> 00:46:16.778
What's happening?

00:46:16.818 --> 00:46:17.159
Not much.

00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:18.539
Just babysitting.

00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:21.300
Nice.

00:46:21.342 --> 00:46:21.461
Nice.

00:46:21.541 --> 00:46:22.382
Yeah.

00:46:22.981 --> 00:46:24.882
Are you listening in?

00:46:26.403 --> 00:46:27.485
I was to begin with.

00:46:27.565 --> 00:46:28.405
And then, like,

00:46:28.664 --> 00:46:30.826
I just had yelling in my

00:46:30.925 --> 00:46:31.706
ears kind of hard.

00:46:32.007 --> 00:46:33.067
And now the yelling is gone.

00:46:33.086 --> 00:46:39.010
We have, like, a small amount of silence.

00:46:39.050 --> 00:46:39.750
I thought I'd come say hey.

00:46:39.791 --> 00:46:39.931
Yeah.

00:46:41.706 --> 00:46:44.393
Null has six weeks?

00:46:44.632 --> 00:46:45.054
Six weeks?

00:46:46.096 --> 00:46:46.416
Seven.

00:46:46.878 --> 00:46:47.338
Seven weeks.

00:46:47.378 --> 00:46:48.902
Who's counting?

00:46:50.693 --> 00:46:51.934
yeah he's getting well he's

00:46:51.954 --> 00:46:52.795
in the director's chair

00:46:52.835 --> 00:46:54.717
right now so he's staring

00:46:54.757 --> 00:46:56.659
at me making the weird

00:46:56.739 --> 00:46:57.719
noises I do hear some

00:46:57.759 --> 00:47:00.882
noises yeah smashing he's

00:47:00.902 --> 00:47:01.902
just like punching this

00:47:01.943 --> 00:47:09.427
whale that makes noise so

00:47:10.289 --> 00:47:10.809
nice so what's been

00:47:10.829 --> 00:47:11.889
happening we've been

00:47:11.909 --> 00:47:12.731
talking about story we're

00:47:12.751 --> 00:47:13.632
talking about like the val

00:47:13.672 --> 00:47:14.452
set and some just some of

00:47:14.472 --> 00:47:17.454
the stuff related to uh just the

00:47:18.155 --> 00:47:19.235
challenges and opportunities

00:47:19.255 --> 00:47:20.815
within ip management I

00:47:20.835 --> 00:47:21.456
guess would be a good way

00:47:21.496 --> 00:47:24.016
of saying it um so grilling

00:47:24.056 --> 00:47:25.277
tim basically grilling tim

00:47:25.297 --> 00:47:26.257
yeah I know right we'll put

00:47:26.277 --> 00:47:28.297
him on spot it's all good

00:47:28.677 --> 00:47:30.719
um you know grow better um

00:47:30.798 --> 00:47:33.239
answer better and then so

00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:34.960
back to your validator ops

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:36.101
piece of things like

00:47:36.141 --> 00:47:36.880
knowing that you came from

00:47:36.900 --> 00:47:38.240
different ecosystems and as

00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:39.282
you started as you guys

00:47:39.322 --> 00:47:41.322
went from l two and now to

00:47:41.422 --> 00:47:44.103
a tenement slash you know

00:47:44.643 --> 00:47:47.103
um kind of evm based l one

00:47:48.887 --> 00:47:49.969
What have you found in terms

00:47:50.028 --> 00:47:51.329
of those conversations with

00:47:51.349 --> 00:47:53.489
the Valsat and individuals

00:47:53.510 --> 00:47:55.550
associated with that and

00:47:55.590 --> 00:47:56.831
just general NodeOps

00:47:57.132 --> 00:47:58.632
performance and teams and

00:47:58.672 --> 00:47:59.213
things like that?

00:47:59.512 --> 00:48:00.112
Any takeaways?

00:48:00.132 --> 00:48:01.313
Has it been different as you

00:48:01.393 --> 00:48:02.873
entered some aspects of the

00:48:02.914 --> 00:48:03.954
Cosmos ecosystem in that way?

00:48:06.393 --> 00:48:08.373
So my background is very E-centric.

00:48:08.994 --> 00:48:11.436
So through like ETH layer

00:48:11.655 --> 00:48:15.778
one and then before I had Saga, the phone,

00:48:15.958 --> 00:48:18.280
I never touched Solana ecosystem.

00:48:18.380 --> 00:48:19.681
I got in because like

00:48:19.702 --> 00:48:20.922
Ethereum ecosystem seemed

00:48:20.943 --> 00:48:22.043
to be like the one.

00:48:22.603 --> 00:48:24.885
So from the previous cycle,

00:48:24.985 --> 00:48:26.166
it's the easiest way to get

00:48:26.206 --> 00:48:26.947
into blockchain is

00:48:26.967 --> 00:48:28.608
definitely the Ethereum ecosystem.

00:48:29.425 --> 00:48:32.027
Um, so obviously layer two, a lot, um,

00:48:32.248 --> 00:48:34.469
it's a, it's, it's not required that many,

00:48:34.809 --> 00:48:35.630
um, no support.

00:48:36.050 --> 00:48:39.733
Um, and also now, um, layer one, I think,

00:48:39.853 --> 00:48:41.094
I think I didn't find that

00:48:41.175 --> 00:48:44.036
hard talking to the validators that, um,

00:48:44.117 --> 00:48:45.418
also validator companies.

00:48:45.498 --> 00:48:47.099
It's, um, really about understanding,

00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.199
first of all, like picking my shit up,

00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:49.541
like,

00:48:49.601 --> 00:48:50.961
like understanding how node

00:48:51.061 --> 00:48:51.802
operation works.

00:48:52.302 --> 00:48:54.083
Like, so I, I run my own node.

00:48:54.630 --> 00:48:57.052
I dog food on my own node

00:48:57.132 --> 00:48:58.411
and then experience like, okay,

00:48:58.452 --> 00:49:01.072
so by how I should run a

00:49:01.112 --> 00:49:02.733
node and then further

00:49:02.893 --> 00:49:04.193
experience on like catching

00:49:04.253 --> 00:49:05.313
up with all the upgrades

00:49:05.353 --> 00:49:07.153
and then maintain up speed

00:49:07.273 --> 00:49:09.335
and then see how that workload goes on.

00:49:09.815 --> 00:49:11.635
And then it's understanding like, okay,

00:49:11.695 --> 00:49:12.775
so what we need,

00:49:12.896 --> 00:49:14.476
like what are the general toolings?

00:49:14.695 --> 00:49:17.416
Like it's really about data analytics.

00:49:17.836 --> 00:49:19.177
Like when you talk to a hundred people,

00:49:19.197 --> 00:49:21.498
you kind of have a set of

00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:22.699
example of a hundred

00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:24.900
different teams talking to you in the way,

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:26.161
like what they can provide.

00:49:26.581 --> 00:49:27.202
And then through that,

00:49:27.222 --> 00:49:28.804
you find a common denominator,

00:49:29.023 --> 00:49:30.545
like common set of toolings

00:49:30.585 --> 00:49:31.724
that everyone can provide.

00:49:32.126 --> 00:49:32.266
So,

00:49:32.286 --> 00:49:33.987
and then it gave me a baseline

00:49:34.186 --> 00:49:36.327
understanding what best

00:49:36.347 --> 00:49:39.590
majority of the validator, how they work.

00:49:40.050 --> 00:49:41.431
Like, people will tell you, like, OK,

00:49:41.592 --> 00:49:44.414
so we run this Twitter account.

00:49:44.815 --> 00:49:46.396
We have this blog writing.

00:49:46.456 --> 00:49:48.157
And then we write Medium.

00:49:48.259 --> 00:49:50.621
So that's the common way of

00:49:50.661 --> 00:49:52.262
looking at our content contribution.

00:49:52.902 --> 00:49:54.224
And then you also have, like,

00:49:56.226 --> 00:49:58.288
Telegram group and Telegram channel.

00:49:58.867 --> 00:50:00.028
And then also like YouTube

00:50:00.048 --> 00:50:02.309
channel as a marketing kind of a way.

00:50:02.389 --> 00:50:04.791
And then for tooling even easier,

00:50:04.851 --> 00:50:06.393
like everyone's trying to say like,

00:50:06.612 --> 00:50:08.974
we have RPC, we have indexer,

00:50:09.034 --> 00:50:09.894
we have scanner,

00:50:09.994 --> 00:50:11.815
and then we have snapshot, right?

00:50:11.856 --> 00:50:12.916
We have archive node.

00:50:13.416 --> 00:50:16.438
So I can see it seem to be

00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:18.260
more like a common practice

00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:19.780
for a lot of things that

00:50:19.820 --> 00:50:21.641
people are doing at the moment.

00:50:21.961 --> 00:50:23.362
They know by doing this,

00:50:23.463 --> 00:50:24.844
it's a contribution.

00:50:25.284 --> 00:50:26.324
So even though you might not

00:50:26.385 --> 00:50:27.565
need that many RPC,

00:50:27.606 --> 00:50:28.626
you might not need that

00:50:28.666 --> 00:50:31.068
many indexer or scanner,

00:50:31.407 --> 00:50:32.748
but people do it to show

00:50:32.789 --> 00:50:33.869
that they are contributing

00:50:33.889 --> 00:50:34.630
towards the network.

00:50:34.789 --> 00:50:36.190
Because apart from that,

00:50:36.771 --> 00:50:37.931
I would look into the

00:50:37.992 --> 00:50:39.132
code-based contributions,

00:50:39.172 --> 00:50:42.315
such as PRs and also issues raising.

00:50:43.052 --> 00:50:44.514
But that will be hard, right?

00:50:44.753 --> 00:50:46.016
You gotta have a dedicated

00:50:46.335 --> 00:50:49.159
set of people who knows how

00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:50.981
the core of a guest or how

00:50:51.061 --> 00:50:52.943
core of Tendermint works in

00:50:53.023 --> 00:50:54.346
order to start contributing.

00:50:54.907 --> 00:50:57.068
So it also segment out

00:50:57.230 --> 00:50:59.932
different teams in terms of their ability,

00:51:00.112 --> 00:51:00.393
I think.

00:51:01.608 --> 00:51:03.130
If you do choose to reward

00:51:03.170 --> 00:51:04.971
people for doing PRs,

00:51:05.612 --> 00:51:07.052
do not tell them beforehand.

00:51:07.293 --> 00:51:07.913
Whatever you do,

00:51:08.012 --> 00:51:09.213
do not tell them beforehand.

00:51:09.233 --> 00:51:10.514
I think it was Juno that

00:51:10.534 --> 00:51:11.454
said that they would, right?

00:51:11.994 --> 00:51:13.356
And then they got absolutely

00:51:13.436 --> 00:51:14.757
blasted by issues from

00:51:14.797 --> 00:51:16.018
people just being like, hey,

00:51:16.737 --> 00:51:17.597
you're missing a period.

00:51:17.759 --> 00:51:21.280
And also Skrull.

00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:26.242
I think Skrull had a PR bump

00:51:26.923 --> 00:51:27.804
when they talked about

00:51:28.224 --> 00:51:28.905
developer problems.

00:51:29.286 --> 00:51:32.068
I can't remember which project was that.

00:51:32.208 --> 00:51:33.489
And then people were just

00:51:33.548 --> 00:51:38.170
picking all those punctuation errors,

00:51:38.271 --> 00:51:39.811
like, oh, you missed this full stop,

00:51:39.831 --> 00:51:40.853
you missed this comma,

00:51:40.893 --> 00:51:43.193
and then your words were not capital.

00:51:43.755 --> 00:51:45.695
I'm like, no.

00:51:45.775 --> 00:51:48.297
I'm not going to mention

00:51:48.358 --> 00:51:49.838
anything on that beforehand.

00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:51.239
So what were some of the

00:51:51.259 --> 00:51:52.019
contributions that you saw

00:51:52.059 --> 00:51:52.980
from the VALSAT that you

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:54.161
thought were outside of those?

00:51:55.041 --> 00:51:55.862
I would agree that those are

00:51:55.882 --> 00:51:57.722
kind of like the standard, right?

00:52:00.108 --> 00:52:01.769
Also, just because some groups say that,

00:52:01.789 --> 00:52:03.010
they don't necessarily do that as well.

00:52:03.251 --> 00:52:05.992
And doing those for a

00:52:06.052 --> 00:52:06.853
testnet is different than

00:52:06.893 --> 00:52:08.155
doing those for the rest of your life.

00:52:09.536 --> 00:52:10.996
And even, like,

00:52:11.297 --> 00:52:13.978
we go back to RPC nodes in docs and, like,

00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:14.878
nine percent of them are

00:52:14.898 --> 00:52:15.980
down because they were up

00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:17.521
for the point of getting in the VAL set.

00:52:17.541 --> 00:52:18.742
And then after that, they drop, right?

00:52:18.762 --> 00:52:20.043
They don't run them anymore.

00:52:20.182 --> 00:52:21.523
They just, you know, it's a thing.

00:52:21.903 --> 00:52:22.505
And running that and

00:52:22.545 --> 00:52:23.824
maintaining it over time is a big deal.

00:52:23.844 --> 00:52:24.666
But I'm curious to see, like,

00:52:25.126 --> 00:52:26.827
what else did you see out of that group?

00:52:27.728 --> 00:52:28.688
Three other values in here, right?

00:52:28.708 --> 00:52:29.489
So what else did you see out

00:52:29.509 --> 00:52:29.869
of that group?

00:52:29.889 --> 00:52:30.329
You said, oh,

00:52:30.409 --> 00:52:31.269
that is something that's

00:52:31.329 --> 00:52:33.251
totally value add that I'm

00:52:33.271 --> 00:52:34.092
not seeing everywhere.

00:52:35.052 --> 00:52:35.853
Yeah,

00:52:36.173 --> 00:52:38.534
I think you especially see people

00:52:38.574 --> 00:52:41.697
with special kind of contributions.

00:52:41.737 --> 00:52:43.619
For example, like scanners.

00:52:43.798 --> 00:52:45.280
Scanner actually varies

00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:46.940
depending on different people, right?

00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:48.762
How you look at it and then

00:52:48.822 --> 00:52:49.983
how you design it and then

00:52:50.023 --> 00:52:50.663
how you build it.

00:52:50.923 --> 00:52:51.503
What's a scanner?

00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:55.862
like, like, uh, like, uh, sorry, sorry.

00:52:55.882 --> 00:52:56.981
Yeah, sure.

00:52:57.202 --> 00:52:58.923
So, so people were like, um,

00:52:59.463 --> 00:53:01.405
so when we talk about like exports, there,

00:53:01.965 --> 00:53:02.806
there are a lot of, um,

00:53:02.945 --> 00:53:04.467
effort you should put in, right.

00:53:04.487 --> 00:53:06.148
For example, I put, um,

00:53:06.188 --> 00:53:08.510
how many validators and then the staking.

00:53:08.650 --> 00:53:09.891
And then, so it was, uh, with us,

00:53:09.911 --> 00:53:11.192
you have the staking pool

00:53:11.231 --> 00:53:12.913
and then you have different, um, kind of,

00:53:13.172 --> 00:53:13.253
uh,

00:53:13.592 --> 00:53:15.135
index and then also because

00:53:15.594 --> 00:53:18.038
we are using gas as execution layer.

00:53:18.797 --> 00:53:21.340
You also do traditional

00:53:21.481 --> 00:53:23.222
explorer such as Etherscan

00:53:23.262 --> 00:53:24.043
type of approach.

00:53:24.384 --> 00:53:26.405
One of the team, I won't mention who,

00:53:26.525 --> 00:53:27.547
but just for you know.

00:53:27.586 --> 00:53:28.347
That's fine.

00:53:28.728 --> 00:53:29.128
Yeah.

00:53:29.208 --> 00:53:31.590
One of the team actually has this in-house,

00:53:31.951 --> 00:53:33.693
they are specialized on building those.

00:53:34.233 --> 00:53:37.076
those Explorer, which was amazing.

00:53:37.376 --> 00:53:39.217
I think that how they look

00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:41.000
and then how we use it,

00:53:41.059 --> 00:53:42.961
the whole user experience were great.

00:53:43.443 --> 00:53:45.364
So I do believe that some

00:53:45.485 --> 00:53:46.885
effort they put in to build

00:53:46.965 --> 00:53:50.170
a good Explorer template

00:53:51.010 --> 00:53:52.112
where they are able to

00:53:52.152 --> 00:53:53.472
transition from one network

00:53:53.492 --> 00:53:54.893
to the other network.

00:53:55.695 --> 00:53:57.257
But before we talking how

00:53:57.297 --> 00:53:58.358
they transfer network,

00:53:58.398 --> 00:53:59.297
they actually build a

00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:01.440
really good template, like all the,

00:54:01.581 --> 00:54:02.300
all the function.

00:54:02.521 --> 00:54:03.202
And then I think it's,

00:54:03.322 --> 00:54:04.623
it's more about display now,

00:54:04.782 --> 00:54:05.643
like for Explorer.

00:54:06.005 --> 00:54:07.525
If your Explorer is too kind

00:54:07.565 --> 00:54:10.288
of too rough or too drafted, like,

00:54:10.748 --> 00:54:12.811
like it doesn't give me a, you know,

00:54:12.831 --> 00:54:14.871
like a kind of like, give me a feel like,

00:54:15.112 --> 00:54:15.492
oh, right.

00:54:15.552 --> 00:54:16.114
Can I do it?

00:54:16.173 --> 00:54:18.275
I possibly can also do it kind of a feel,

00:54:18.635 --> 00:54:20.257
but if you actually put effort in,

00:54:20.297 --> 00:54:20.918
you can feel it.

00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:23.380
Like how they, how they build out the UI,

00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:24.702
how they build out the user

00:54:24.762 --> 00:54:26.362
experience is it's actually

00:54:26.382 --> 00:54:28.103
just like building an application.

00:54:28.684 --> 00:54:30.304
It's more like building a

00:54:30.385 --> 00:54:32.126
DAP on top of an ecosystem

00:54:32.186 --> 00:54:33.266
rather than just saying like,

00:54:33.306 --> 00:54:34.387
we are building a tool for

00:54:34.467 --> 00:54:36.329
you for the ecosystem to use.

00:54:36.849 --> 00:54:38.070
So I think that's a very big,

00:54:38.309 --> 00:54:38.909
big difference.

00:54:39.271 --> 00:54:40.210
How you build, um,

00:54:40.351 --> 00:54:41.431
compare with your mindset

00:54:41.472 --> 00:54:43.552
of building an application, um,

00:54:43.713 --> 00:54:44.673
like building an

00:54:44.713 --> 00:54:45.813
application compared with

00:54:45.853 --> 00:54:46.474
building a tool.

00:54:47.690 --> 00:54:49.030
Yeah, I think that's a good example.

00:54:49.050 --> 00:54:51.092
And plus,

00:54:51.112 --> 00:54:51.972
I think there's explorers that

00:54:52.012 --> 00:54:52.572
are geared towards

00:54:52.612 --> 00:54:53.572
different types of end users,

00:54:53.793 --> 00:54:55.353
like different types of constituents,

00:54:55.373 --> 00:54:55.534
right?

00:54:57.954 --> 00:54:59.355
Like Mint Scan and stuff

00:54:59.375 --> 00:55:00.775
like that in the ecosystem, I think,

00:55:00.815 --> 00:55:01.916
are really built a little

00:55:01.936 --> 00:55:03.016
bit more around delegators.

00:55:03.956 --> 00:55:05.757
I think the work that Nodes Guru does,

00:55:06.557 --> 00:55:07.838
if maybe that was your example,

00:55:07.858 --> 00:55:09.719
but Nodes Guru, I think their explorer

00:55:11.139 --> 00:55:11.860
is a little bit more,

00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:13.340
has a little bit more

00:55:13.380 --> 00:55:14.981
validator focus than maybe others.

00:55:15.601 --> 00:55:16.121
Same with ping,

00:55:16.161 --> 00:55:16.981
like being able to see like

00:55:17.001 --> 00:55:18.521
current misses and things like that,

00:55:18.702 --> 00:55:20.503
which are not across the val set,

00:55:20.523 --> 00:55:21.403
which are not really easy

00:55:21.463 --> 00:55:22.503
to do like in min scan and

00:55:22.523 --> 00:55:23.003
things like that.

00:55:24.005 --> 00:55:25.105
Or even like sellotone,

00:55:25.684 --> 00:55:26.965
which you might know from

00:55:26.985 --> 00:55:28.385
an EVM contract perspective

00:55:28.425 --> 00:55:29.286
and like you see showing up

00:55:29.306 --> 00:55:30.226
in like say scan and other

00:55:30.246 --> 00:55:31.648
types of offshoots of that.

00:55:32.688 --> 00:55:32.927
Obviously,

00:55:32.947 --> 00:55:33.889
it's much more contract based

00:55:34.429 --> 00:55:35.108
and doing a little bit more

00:55:35.128 --> 00:55:36.148
in terms of they don't

00:55:36.190 --> 00:55:37.750
really care too much about

00:55:37.769 --> 00:55:39.871
the actual block or misses.

00:55:39.931 --> 00:55:41.530
It's really more about contract execution.

00:55:41.572 --> 00:55:43.072
So I think there's probably

00:55:43.092 --> 00:55:44.092
a lot of room there, right?

00:55:44.192 --> 00:55:46.632
Especially and maybe one

00:55:46.652 --> 00:55:47.454
thing I haven't really seen

00:55:47.494 --> 00:55:49.213
too much is an explorer

00:55:49.233 --> 00:55:50.175
that kind of ties in,

00:55:51.315 --> 00:55:52.054
especially like we have

00:55:52.074 --> 00:55:53.335
some chains that run both

00:55:53.856 --> 00:55:54.996
consensus and execution at

00:55:55.056 --> 00:55:55.856
different block rates.

00:55:56.577 --> 00:55:57.898
Where they could finalize differently,

00:55:58.097 --> 00:55:59.219
but there's no, there's no, like,

00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:00.360
I haven't seen Explorer

00:56:00.380 --> 00:56:01.380
that pulls those together.

00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:01.780
Right.

00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:02.201
You know what I mean?

00:56:02.221 --> 00:56:03.221
Where I can see the consensus layer,

00:56:03.242 --> 00:56:04.021
I can see the execution

00:56:04.061 --> 00:56:05.262
layer and I can see the

00:56:05.282 --> 00:56:06.744
finalization associated to that.

00:56:06.764 --> 00:56:09.065
Like that's, those are all kind of cool.

00:56:09.445 --> 00:56:10.646
I think those are good examples of,

00:56:10.846 --> 00:56:12.146
of different types of needs there.

00:56:12.186 --> 00:56:12.688
Yeah, for sure.

00:56:13.467 --> 00:56:15.088
Yeah, I think it is.

00:56:15.208 --> 00:56:17.150
So I feel like a lot of times now,

00:56:17.170 --> 00:56:18.871
people need to move away.

00:56:18.931 --> 00:56:19.311
Sometimes,

00:56:20.393 --> 00:56:22.275
I really like NodeGurus Explorer.

00:56:22.414 --> 00:56:23.076
They are very quick.

00:56:23.956 --> 00:56:25.697
The second day you launch a testnet,

00:56:26.298 --> 00:56:27.920
they were like, oh, here's the link.

00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:30.041
Here you go.

00:56:30.101 --> 00:56:32.423
Just want to get their own RPC.

00:56:32.443 --> 00:56:33.846
Yeah, and then I feel like,

00:56:34.286 --> 00:56:35.047
so when you want

00:56:35.547 --> 00:56:36.708
want to surprise and then

00:56:36.748 --> 00:56:38.010
now it's more like okay so

00:56:38.570 --> 00:56:40.393
explorer it's not just an

00:56:40.574 --> 00:56:41.795
explorer anymore it's more

00:56:41.815 --> 00:56:43.177
about like okay so what

00:56:43.257 --> 00:56:44.438
else I can do it's what

00:56:44.798 --> 00:56:45.981
acting like a super app

00:56:46.563 --> 00:56:49.326
How I place Explorer is a

00:56:49.425 --> 00:56:51.407
super app for the entire

00:56:51.527 --> 00:56:53.369
like fundamental blockchain.

00:56:53.809 --> 00:56:55.110
Like you should be able to

00:56:55.170 --> 00:56:57.710
just directly do like see

00:56:57.751 --> 00:56:59.172
your network distribution

00:56:59.632 --> 00:57:00.773
and then see your delegator

00:57:01.134 --> 00:57:03.375
distribution and then maybe

00:57:03.474 --> 00:57:06.056
stake and stake and also delegate.

00:57:06.637 --> 00:57:08.277
and then also like tracking

00:57:08.378 --> 00:57:10.177
on the transaction and also

00:57:10.338 --> 00:57:12.438
like the block signature.

00:57:12.818 --> 00:57:15.219
So there's a lot that people

00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:17.119
should put towards like

00:57:17.179 --> 00:57:18.119
into our Explorer.

00:57:18.139 --> 00:57:19.760
So you don't want people to move around.

00:57:20.141 --> 00:57:21.260
You just want people to use

00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:22.161
your Explorer and then

00:57:22.201 --> 00:57:23.721
experience all the service

00:57:24.041 --> 00:57:25.461
that they should be experienced, right?

00:57:25.902 --> 00:57:27.603
so otherwise um you move out

00:57:27.623 --> 00:57:28.583
move around different

00:57:28.742 --> 00:57:29.963
website it actually create

00:57:29.983 --> 00:57:31.184
a very big fix large

00:57:31.224 --> 00:57:32.804
fiction like you will be

00:57:32.943 --> 00:57:34.485
your your explorer you will

00:57:34.505 --> 00:57:35.625
be only served for certain

00:57:35.664 --> 00:57:36.806
parts and then I I

00:57:36.846 --> 00:57:37.985
personally am not a big fan

00:57:38.025 --> 00:57:39.465
of that like I want to use

00:57:39.525 --> 00:57:40.947
somewhere like I'm I'm I'm

00:57:41.067 --> 00:57:42.867
asian right like the the

00:57:43.047 --> 00:57:45.248
one signature in internet

00:57:45.347 --> 00:57:47.309
era for asia is super app

00:57:47.943 --> 00:57:49.965
It's literally like we look at a history,

00:57:50.005 --> 00:57:50.985
we know WeChat,

00:57:51.045 --> 00:57:54.626
we know KakaoLine or Grab.

00:57:55.146 --> 00:57:56.547
It's really the iconic of

00:57:56.646 --> 00:57:58.467
how everything just aggregates together.

00:57:58.987 --> 00:58:01.228
So in one place, you do everything.

00:58:01.789 --> 00:58:04.210
I think it's good in a way, but bad also.

00:58:04.230 --> 00:58:05.731
It's more like a double-edged sword.

00:58:05.751 --> 00:58:06.690
But for me,

00:58:07.050 --> 00:58:08.492
I feel like I need that super app.

00:58:09.108 --> 00:58:12.192
I need that there's a super

00:58:12.693 --> 00:58:14.375
app Explorer alive on our

00:58:14.414 --> 00:58:15.556
blockchain allows me just

00:58:15.615 --> 00:58:17.918
to perform all the operation I need.

00:58:18.380 --> 00:58:19.802
So rather than just going

00:58:19.822 --> 00:58:21.804
through different Explorer

00:58:21.824 --> 00:58:24.668
to find the information I need.

00:58:24.788 --> 00:58:25.728
Yeah, I totally get that.

00:58:28.327 --> 00:58:29.168
It's always nice when you go

00:58:29.228 --> 00:58:31.070
onto a network's website

00:58:31.110 --> 00:58:31.630
and they have like an

00:58:31.750 --> 00:58:32.871
ecosystem page and you can

00:58:33.030 --> 00:58:34.592
kind of bring it all together to like,

00:58:34.632 --> 00:58:35.831
okay, here's NFTs or whatever,

00:58:36.333 --> 00:58:37.373
which is oddly uncommon.

00:58:38.173 --> 00:58:39.054
Um, but yeah,

00:58:39.094 --> 00:58:40.054
having a central location

00:58:40.074 --> 00:58:40.815
where you could access

00:58:40.855 --> 00:58:42.056
everything would be super sweet.

00:58:43.523 --> 00:58:44.304
Tim, one last thing,

00:58:44.445 --> 00:58:45.425
just a round story before

00:58:45.465 --> 00:58:47.005
we move away from that.

00:58:47.306 --> 00:58:50.289
When you were talking about

00:58:50.309 --> 00:58:51.289
before around just the

00:58:51.309 --> 00:58:52.369
wallet use and things like that,

00:58:52.769 --> 00:58:53.590
one of the areas here,

00:58:54.451 --> 00:58:55.251
knowing that you're going

00:58:55.291 --> 00:58:57.452
to deal with a pretty large

00:58:57.532 --> 00:58:59.594
user base that might not be

00:58:59.635 --> 00:59:01.275
traditional crypto users, right?

00:59:01.996 --> 00:59:02.757
Like you have artists and

00:59:02.777 --> 00:59:04.177
you have a bunch of folks

00:59:04.197 --> 00:59:05.759
that are not that...

00:59:06.322 --> 00:59:07.103
I don't want to generalize,

00:59:07.583 --> 00:59:09.427
but how are you guys

00:59:09.447 --> 00:59:10.427
thinking about abstraction

00:59:10.507 --> 00:59:14.172
away from wallet interfaces

00:59:14.231 --> 00:59:14.992
and things like that and

00:59:15.012 --> 00:59:17.815
getting to more natural... Hey,

00:59:17.835 --> 00:59:18.856
I'm logging into this site

00:59:18.876 --> 00:59:19.657
and I'm doing these things.

00:59:20.980 --> 00:59:23.121
Is the blockchain component...

00:59:23.702 --> 00:59:25.565
the centerpiece of, of that tool?

00:59:25.686 --> 00:59:26.907
Or is it really, it's,

00:59:27.068 --> 00:59:27.949
it's behind the curtain.

00:59:28.190 --> 00:59:29.413
Like this is all this

00:59:29.452 --> 00:59:30.333
available that we have in

00:59:30.373 --> 00:59:31.295
terms of functionality and

00:59:31.315 --> 00:59:33.458
behind the scenes, you got to ensure we,

00:59:33.739 --> 00:59:35.061
you know, trust us that this is,

00:59:35.463 --> 00:59:36.485
there's a huge amount of

00:59:36.505 --> 00:59:37.226
accountability that goes

00:59:37.246 --> 00:59:37.806
behind the curtain.

00:59:39.623 --> 00:59:41.385
I think it's also a very

00:59:41.445 --> 00:59:43.706
tough question to answer.

00:59:44.067 --> 00:59:44.547
Obviously,

00:59:44.626 --> 00:59:46.807
we know setting up a wallet in

00:59:46.867 --> 00:59:48.668
our industry is one of the

00:59:48.708 --> 00:59:50.909
largest barriers allowing

00:59:51.411 --> 00:59:54.371
outside audience to join in.

00:59:54.931 --> 00:59:56.313
Teaching them how to use wallets,

00:59:56.353 --> 00:59:59.155
secure their assets is very difficult.

00:59:59.195 --> 01:00:00.615
And then further on,

01:00:00.635 --> 01:00:01.735
you have the off-ramp and

01:00:01.815 --> 01:00:06.858
on-ramp kind of a question in the future.

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:10.242
Um, so how we actually collaborate, um,

01:00:10.282 --> 01:00:11.782
so we have several like web

01:00:11.802 --> 01:00:15.505
two projects onboarded to, uh, story with,

01:00:15.626 --> 01:00:17.447
um, with the help of, for example, um,

01:00:17.487 --> 01:00:19.489
smart contract, a smart wallet account,

01:00:19.528 --> 01:00:21.291
like Pimlico and also zero

01:00:21.311 --> 01:00:23.532
death and then building a, um,

01:00:23.572 --> 01:00:24.672
so we also internally

01:00:24.713 --> 01:00:26.775
trying to build this, um, API.

01:00:27.135 --> 01:00:28.576
So it's a web two API

01:00:28.916 --> 01:00:31.619
allowing user directly using these, um,

01:00:31.878 --> 01:00:34.320
smart contract wallets, uh, also like, uh,

01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:35.661
abstract wallet from.

01:00:36.420 --> 01:00:39.460
dynamic or privy to use

01:00:39.501 --> 01:00:40.922
social login to interact

01:00:41.902 --> 01:00:43.742
with our protocol rather than saying like,

01:00:43.822 --> 01:00:46.625
okay, you set up a wallet.

01:00:46.644 --> 01:00:47.885
Sometimes a lot of those

01:00:47.925 --> 01:00:49.346
successful dApp that

01:00:49.885 --> 01:00:52.927
attracted Web two users into Web three,

01:00:53.106 --> 01:00:54.307
it's really not about

01:00:54.608 --> 01:00:56.409
talking to user about

01:00:56.449 --> 01:00:58.349
wallets or talking to user

01:00:58.389 --> 01:01:00.331
about tokens or blockchain.

01:01:00.431 --> 01:01:01.090
It's really about

01:01:01.610 --> 01:01:02.871
how we make this whole

01:01:02.992 --> 01:01:04.233
experience more frictionless.

01:01:04.672 --> 01:01:05.393
Right.

01:01:05.434 --> 01:01:06.775
Like we hide the whole thing

01:01:06.815 --> 01:01:07.574
in the background.

01:01:07.614 --> 01:01:09.577
So once they discover, they discover.

01:01:09.976 --> 01:01:10.938
So like a lot of people,

01:01:11.057 --> 01:01:12.298
like a lot of Southeast

01:01:12.418 --> 01:01:13.619
Asian people still don't know,

01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:14.820
like you can actually top

01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:18.722
up Grab with your cryptocurrency.

01:01:18.764 --> 01:01:20.143
Top up what?

01:01:20.344 --> 01:01:20.684
So, you know,

01:01:20.724 --> 01:01:24.186
Grab is a super app in Southeast Asia.

01:01:24.447 --> 01:01:26.329
Oh, yeah.

01:01:26.349 --> 01:01:26.509
Yeah.

01:01:26.548 --> 01:01:27.969
They are live on Polygon.

01:01:28.130 --> 01:01:29.150
And then you are able to top

01:01:29.210 --> 01:01:30.552
up your Grab wallets

01:01:31.539 --> 01:01:34.041
by bitcoin by ethereum it so

01:01:34.202 --> 01:01:35.523
so that is a good example

01:01:35.583 --> 01:01:37.003
here like we we're talking

01:01:37.043 --> 01:01:38.505
about like they they don't

01:01:38.626 --> 01:01:40.166
tell users like okay you're

01:01:40.206 --> 01:01:41.568
able to do it it's only

01:01:41.688 --> 01:01:42.789
once you start discovering

01:01:42.889 --> 01:01:43.949
it and then you're like

01:01:44.090 --> 01:01:45.170
damn I'm able to do

01:01:45.210 --> 01:01:46.411
something more and more

01:01:46.431 --> 01:01:47.813
than just using my credit card

01:01:49.114 --> 01:01:50.914
I think that is just a

01:01:51.014 --> 01:01:52.556
perfect example of how we

01:01:52.576 --> 01:01:53.215
should do stuff.

01:01:53.295 --> 01:01:56.797
It's not about you force

01:01:56.817 --> 01:01:58.177
people to have a wallet.

01:01:58.237 --> 01:01:59.358
It's about providing choice.

01:01:59.778 --> 01:02:02.079
People can log in by wallet.

01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:03.820
People can also log in by

01:02:03.860 --> 01:02:05.601
traditional Google.

01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:06.840
And then you're trying to

01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:08.041
create this general

01:02:08.101 --> 01:02:09.722
interface of digital wallet

01:02:10.242 --> 01:02:13.463
on top of your smart

01:02:13.483 --> 01:02:14.844
contract wallet to allow

01:02:14.864 --> 01:02:16.184
them to use the functions.

01:02:18.751 --> 01:02:20.072
Yeah, I think that'll be important, right?

01:02:20.253 --> 01:02:22.032
I think it has to be a component of that.

01:02:22.153 --> 01:02:23.193
And I do like that idea.

01:02:23.213 --> 01:02:24.434
We talked about this before.

01:02:24.454 --> 01:02:25.815
I think it was with Zion maybe.

01:02:25.914 --> 01:02:26.956
And we've talked about it

01:02:27.016 --> 01:02:28.115
actually a lot of different apps.

01:02:28.675 --> 01:02:31.277
But the idea that you are

01:02:31.677 --> 01:02:33.838
enabling the right amount

01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:37.740
of authentication and kind

01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:40.021
of control at whatever the user wants,

01:02:40.681 --> 01:02:40.882
right?

01:02:40.922 --> 01:02:41.641
Which I think is like your

01:02:41.681 --> 01:02:42.782
grab example there, right?

01:02:42.842 --> 01:02:44.063
Like some people might just

01:02:44.103 --> 01:02:44.903
top that up through a

01:02:45.543 --> 01:02:46.204
like a credit card

01:02:46.224 --> 01:02:47.365
transaction and others want

01:02:47.385 --> 01:02:49.728
to be able to understand and be able to,

01:02:50.028 --> 01:02:50.708
you know, do that in,

01:02:51.250 --> 01:02:53.271
in much more controlling ways.

01:02:53.632 --> 01:02:53.833
Right.

01:02:54.052 --> 01:02:55.414
And, and controlling meaning like I,

01:02:55.434 --> 01:02:57.436
it's my own funds, it's my own transfer.

01:02:57.777 --> 01:02:58.958
I'm initiating the way I want to.

01:02:58.978 --> 01:02:59.217
I'm not,

01:02:59.297 --> 01:03:00.760
it's not going through centralized

01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:02.862
exchanges and all that kind of shit.

01:03:02.922 --> 01:03:03.242
Yep.

01:03:03.822 --> 01:03:04.943
Yeah.

01:03:05.003 --> 01:03:05.684
Another good challenge.

01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:07.121
Yeah.

01:03:07.181 --> 01:03:07.320
Yeah.

01:03:07.340 --> 01:03:07.902
There's a lot of time.

01:03:07.922 --> 01:03:08.001
Yeah.

01:03:08.021 --> 01:03:08.242
It's funny.

01:03:08.262 --> 01:03:12.423
I mean, that's, that's the irony of,

01:03:12.603 --> 01:03:13.844
of being in crypto, right?

01:03:13.884 --> 01:03:15.344
Is that we all, we,

01:03:15.405 --> 01:03:17.485
the natives are like all

01:03:17.646 --> 01:03:18.467
excited about actually

01:03:18.507 --> 01:03:19.327
working with our wallets

01:03:19.347 --> 01:03:20.146
and crypto and trying

01:03:20.166 --> 01:03:20.788
different things out.

01:03:21.788 --> 01:03:22.507
But the beauty of crypto

01:03:22.527 --> 01:03:23.429
will come whenever people

01:03:23.469 --> 01:03:24.528
don't realize they're using it,

01:03:25.110 --> 01:03:26.250
which feels ironic.

01:03:26.590 --> 01:03:28.931
Like we, like nobody cares that,

01:03:28.971 --> 01:03:30.172
that crypto is in the background.

01:03:31.713 --> 01:03:33.172
It just happens to be once

01:03:33.193 --> 01:03:33.934
we can get that working.

01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:36.202
Yeah, right.

01:03:36.222 --> 01:03:36.641
They shouldn't.

01:03:37.762 --> 01:03:38.782
I think it's the moment

01:03:38.822 --> 01:03:40.023
where when we stop talking

01:03:40.063 --> 01:03:41.344
about web three and web two

01:03:41.403 --> 01:03:42.485
and off chain and on chain.

01:03:42.784 --> 01:03:44.025
No shit, right?

01:03:44.126 --> 01:03:45.465
I really, I really start,

01:03:45.686 --> 01:03:47.246
I'm forcing myself to stop saying,

01:03:47.447 --> 01:03:48.668
say the word web three.

01:03:49.315 --> 01:03:50.195
I feel like it just,

01:03:51.536 --> 01:03:53.036
so you're actually forcing

01:03:53.077 --> 01:03:54.498
yourself to segment out the

01:03:54.557 --> 01:03:55.798
whole world into two parts,

01:03:56.440 --> 01:03:57.579
like WebView and WebView,

01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:58.760
but in the end of the day,

01:03:59.302 --> 01:04:01.402
everyone run nodes in Houndstown, right?

01:04:01.443 --> 01:04:03.884
Yeah, exactly.

01:04:04.284 --> 01:04:07.626
And then everyone run nodes on Kompota.

01:04:08.367 --> 01:04:10.648
So to be honest, there's no difference.

01:04:11.469 --> 01:04:12.650
Your server might be next to

01:04:12.730 --> 01:04:14.570
some snowflake server,

01:04:15.010 --> 01:04:16.092
and then you are just using

01:04:16.132 --> 01:04:17.413
the same spec.

01:04:17.672 --> 01:04:19.012
The only thing that makes

01:04:19.052 --> 01:04:20.134
difference is that we have

01:04:20.173 --> 01:04:23.356
crypto in our wallet,

01:04:23.436 --> 01:04:24.576
and then people have money

01:04:24.615 --> 01:04:25.476
in their bank account.

01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:29.063
There's not that much a big difference.

01:04:29.704 --> 01:04:30.384
So we should just,

01:04:30.443 --> 01:04:32.606
so one day when we start saying like,

01:04:32.726 --> 01:04:34.387
okay, so how's your wallet?

01:04:34.507 --> 01:04:36.530
Or we can just use, you know,

01:04:36.650 --> 01:04:37.731
something common just to

01:04:37.751 --> 01:04:39.251
represent the whole concept.

01:04:39.572 --> 01:04:40.492
Then we are there for a

01:04:40.532 --> 01:04:43.436
massive opportunity.

01:04:43.476 --> 01:04:44.737
Totally agree.

01:04:44.876 --> 01:04:45.818
I'm going to log into Google

01:04:45.838 --> 01:04:46.777
with my Kepler wallet.

01:04:47.818 --> 01:04:48.099
Yeah.

01:04:54.833 --> 01:04:55.514
Maybe Metamask.

01:04:56.215 --> 01:04:58.376
Maybe that one will happen.

01:04:58.416 --> 01:05:02.039
Yeah, Kepler's a way out.

01:05:02.059 --> 01:05:02.179
Tim,

01:05:02.260 --> 01:05:03.201
anything else you want to talk about

01:05:03.221 --> 01:05:04.442
around story?

01:05:04.702 --> 01:05:05.402
Anything we didn't touch on?

01:05:06.221 --> 01:05:06.481
No,

01:05:06.581 --> 01:05:09.181
I think we touched pretty much a lot of

01:05:09.222 --> 01:05:09.402
that,

01:05:09.541 --> 01:05:12.384
especially I like the side people

01:05:12.443 --> 01:05:13.483
ask about the challenges.

01:05:13.744 --> 01:05:15.005
I think that there are a lot

01:05:15.025 --> 01:05:17.065
of challenges we will be facing.

01:05:17.846 --> 01:05:19.106
And it's always very

01:05:19.887 --> 01:05:21.007
exciting to solve those

01:05:21.027 --> 01:05:22.367
challenges at the same time.

01:05:22.728 --> 01:05:23.688
Yeah, that's why you're in the business,

01:05:23.728 --> 01:05:23.887
right?

01:05:24.507 --> 01:05:24.648
Yeah.

01:05:24.708 --> 01:05:25.108
It was easy.

01:05:25.188 --> 01:05:26.789
Everybody would be doing it.

01:05:26.889 --> 01:05:28.309
Where should people read more about story?

01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:31.561
Um, definitely our blogs.

01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:31.960
Um,

01:05:32.021 --> 01:05:34.762
I think our co-founders Jason is a

01:05:34.802 --> 01:05:35.342
great writer.

01:05:35.762 --> 01:05:37.643
Um, he write, um, a lot of great,

01:05:37.804 --> 01:05:40.505
great piece, um, piece and also, um,

01:05:40.625 --> 01:05:40.985
that's why.

01:05:41.625 --> 01:05:43.106
So don't get too hooked into

01:05:43.166 --> 01:05:45.427
the beef between us and barricade.

01:05:45.507 --> 01:05:46.047
But, um,

01:05:46.206 --> 01:05:48.188
I think the whole thesis behind that was,

01:05:48.288 --> 01:05:49.969
was great trying to talk about, um,

01:05:50.088 --> 01:05:51.208
data ownership and then

01:05:51.268 --> 01:05:53.250
talking about solving the real problem.

01:05:53.469 --> 01:05:54.530
So I think, um,

01:05:54.550 --> 01:05:56.170
we just really want people to understand,

01:05:56.371 --> 01:05:57.291
um, IP is not

01:05:58.367 --> 01:06:00.728
IP is really an issue that

01:06:00.809 --> 01:06:04.090
relates to everyone in the future.

01:06:04.510 --> 01:06:04.911
However,

01:06:04.931 --> 01:06:07.211
you only really get involved into

01:06:07.271 --> 01:06:09.954
it once you get infringed

01:06:10.333 --> 01:06:12.235
by someone or violated by someone.

01:06:12.315 --> 01:06:14.777
But to be honest, it's happening to us.

01:06:15.836 --> 01:06:18.717
like your data on Twitter

01:06:18.818 --> 01:06:22.780
will never be yours, right?

01:06:22.820 --> 01:06:24.981
Because the platform controls everything.

01:06:25.081 --> 01:06:26.201
So when, and same,

01:06:26.260 --> 01:06:27.782
similar to your bank account.

01:06:29.561 --> 01:06:30.342
I know, totally agree.

01:06:31.163 --> 01:06:32.083
If we just had somebody on

01:06:32.103 --> 01:06:34.063
this show who would create

01:06:34.324 --> 01:06:36.585
a blockchain based Twitter client,

01:06:36.824 --> 01:06:37.565
which we've had for a long time,

01:06:39.121 --> 01:06:39.840
Damn.

01:06:39.860 --> 01:06:40.882
I know.

01:06:41.603 --> 01:06:42.802
Maybe on Aptos or something.

01:06:42.822 --> 01:06:45.925
Even a new L one.

01:06:46.786 --> 01:06:47.806
Well, Tim, thanks for joining, man.

01:06:48.126 --> 01:06:49.487
I really appreciate it.

01:06:49.507 --> 01:06:51.469
Thank you very much for the chance.

01:06:51.929 --> 01:06:53.690
It's been a great experience

01:06:53.750 --> 01:06:55.090
talking on this podcast.

01:06:55.572 --> 01:06:55.771
I know,

01:06:55.791 --> 01:06:57.213
which is weird because we never

01:06:57.293 --> 01:06:58.233
have great experiences for

01:06:58.253 --> 01:06:59.173
guests on this podcast.

01:07:00.523 --> 01:07:01.885
Oh, that's right.

01:07:01.905 --> 01:07:02.365
And ironically,

01:07:02.405 --> 01:07:04.047
we never do comments like normal.

01:07:05.568 --> 01:07:06.268
Like we literally, we,

01:07:07.389 --> 01:07:08.751
sometimes we always ignore

01:07:08.851 --> 01:07:09.632
the by accident.

01:07:09.652 --> 01:07:10.373
And then maybe it's just

01:07:10.393 --> 01:07:11.054
cause there's toolers.

01:07:11.134 --> 01:07:11.994
Maybe it's just because you

01:07:12.034 --> 01:07:12.715
and I are here.

01:07:14.076 --> 01:07:14.817
Maybe that's the issue.

01:07:14.836 --> 01:07:16.277
Maybe it's the lack of, yeah,

01:07:16.297 --> 01:07:17.239
it's a little bit more focused.

01:07:17.338 --> 01:07:18.539
Like we were pretty focused in that hour.

01:07:18.579 --> 01:07:19.001
I got to admit.

01:07:19.021 --> 01:07:19.101
Yeah.

01:07:19.121 --> 01:07:22.704
Yeah, it is.

01:07:22.724 --> 01:07:25.507
It was impressed.

01:07:25.527 --> 01:07:26.608
All right, dude.

01:07:26.628 --> 01:07:26.927
Thank you.

01:07:27.597 --> 01:07:28.197
Thank you very much.

01:07:28.398 --> 01:07:28.577
All right.

01:07:28.597 --> 01:07:28.838
You bet.

01:07:29.157 --> 01:07:30.438
See ya.

01:07:30.478 --> 01:07:30.639
Yeah.

01:07:30.798 --> 01:07:31.099
See ya.

01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:33.240
Bye.

01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:33.721
All right.

01:07:34.722 --> 01:07:35.402
Dude, that was awesome.

01:07:36.163 --> 01:07:36.503
Look at that.

01:07:36.623 --> 01:07:37.284
That was, we had a guest.

01:07:37.304 --> 01:07:37.764
That was fun.

01:07:37.864 --> 01:07:38.744
We actually did something.

01:07:38.985 --> 01:07:40.905
We actually had a podcast with,

01:07:41.146 --> 01:07:41.987
with actual content.

01:07:43.047 --> 01:07:44.088
I really enjoyed talking to him.

01:07:44.407 --> 01:07:44.648
Me too.

01:07:44.668 --> 01:07:45.088
I mean, I'm,

01:07:45.449 --> 01:07:47.250
I'm kind of a sucker for story anyway,

01:07:47.289 --> 01:07:48.670
just because, I mean, you, you know,

01:07:48.710 --> 01:07:49.871
my original startup idea.

01:07:50.713 --> 01:07:52.273
And that kind of fits pretty

01:07:52.293 --> 01:07:52.853
well within it.

01:07:53.434 --> 01:07:53.514
Yeah.

01:07:53.534 --> 01:07:54.894
So I was always really interested in it.

01:07:54.914 --> 01:07:55.635
Yeah.

01:07:56.505 --> 01:07:58.766
I mean, I did bring it up.

01:07:58.806 --> 01:07:59.525
I think it's a tough problem.

01:07:59.565 --> 01:08:00.626
It doesn't mean it's not solvable.

01:08:00.945 --> 01:08:05.768
I just think there's a lot of headway.

01:08:05.927 --> 01:08:06.967
Didn't somebody try this on

01:08:06.987 --> 01:08:10.289
the music side in Cosmos, but music only?

01:08:10.329 --> 01:08:10.929
What was that called?

01:08:11.369 --> 01:08:14.349
Wasn't that... It was around

01:08:14.369 --> 01:08:14.829
the same time.

01:08:14.889 --> 01:08:15.891
It was like early days, right?

01:08:15.911 --> 01:08:16.430
It was the same time.

01:08:16.451 --> 01:08:17.091
It was like Czech.

01:08:17.411 --> 01:08:18.511
I don't think it's the same thing as this.

01:08:18.530 --> 01:08:19.032
Don't get me wrong.

01:08:19.072 --> 01:08:20.471
Was it Bitsong?

01:08:20.492 --> 01:08:21.912
It was Bitsong.

01:08:21.971 --> 01:08:22.912
That's exactly what it was.

01:08:23.113 --> 01:08:23.672
It was Bitsong.

01:08:24.774 --> 01:08:25.055
Oh, man.

01:08:25.336 --> 01:08:26.278
If James listens to this,

01:08:26.297 --> 01:08:28.181
he's not going to be happy with me.

01:08:28.261 --> 01:08:28.903
Why?

01:08:29.304 --> 01:08:31.408
Well, so James is a musician.

01:08:32.130 --> 01:08:32.369
Yeah.

01:08:32.390 --> 01:08:34.854
And so he's a huge fan of SoundCloud.

01:08:34.875 --> 01:08:35.396
Oh, okay.

01:08:35.676 --> 01:08:35.856
And...

01:08:37.961 --> 01:08:39.582
And so he I think I think he

01:08:39.622 --> 01:08:40.322
still has a pretty decent

01:08:40.341 --> 01:08:41.203
amount of bits on because

01:08:41.222 --> 01:08:42.623
he was like super hopeful about it.

01:08:42.663 --> 01:08:43.123
And I was like,

01:08:43.144 --> 01:08:44.765
I don't know if they're

01:08:44.805 --> 01:08:45.984
gonna be able to pull it off.

01:08:46.125 --> 01:08:47.265
And he was like, shut up.

01:08:47.345 --> 01:08:48.447
You don't know what you're talking about.

01:08:48.707 --> 01:08:49.827
Yeah, exactly.

01:08:49.846 --> 01:08:50.408
The market.

01:08:51.807 --> 01:08:52.189
Yeah, I think.

01:08:52.208 --> 01:08:53.989
Well, this I mean, this is this.

01:08:54.983 --> 01:08:55.863
That's the other thing about IP,

01:08:55.884 --> 01:08:56.503
which we didn't talk about.

01:08:56.703 --> 01:08:57.944
Like it's so right now it's

01:08:57.965 --> 01:09:02.048
so segmented like music IP and movie IP.

01:09:02.149 --> 01:09:04.010
And those are like huge industries.

01:09:04.210 --> 01:09:04.390
Right.

01:09:05.851 --> 01:09:08.033
And so like, where do you start with that?

01:09:08.132 --> 01:09:10.095
Like what, what types of media or even,

01:09:10.274 --> 01:09:12.016
even the written word.

01:09:12.117 --> 01:09:13.136
But like, where do you start with that?

01:09:13.176 --> 01:09:14.398
It can't be everything to everybody.

01:09:14.679 --> 01:09:14.819
Right.

01:09:14.838 --> 01:09:15.920
Or maybe, I don't know.

01:09:16.199 --> 01:09:16.739
It seems like it has to

01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:17.421
start with something and

01:09:17.440 --> 01:09:18.261
then it grows from there.

01:09:18.322 --> 01:09:18.542
But yeah,

01:09:19.076 --> 01:09:20.777
like what, what industry would be good,

01:09:20.917 --> 01:09:21.118
right?

01:09:21.618 --> 01:09:22.878
Like property rights.

01:09:23.059 --> 01:09:23.439
I don't fuck.

01:09:23.498 --> 01:09:23.779
I don't know.

01:09:23.859 --> 01:09:26.622
Like we're, I think my thought was books.

01:09:27.521 --> 01:09:27.841
Yeah.

01:09:27.903 --> 01:09:28.823
It'd be a good way to start.

01:09:29.182 --> 01:09:29.463
Yeah.

01:09:29.923 --> 01:09:30.064
Yeah.

01:09:30.104 --> 01:09:30.463
I don't know.

01:09:30.925 --> 01:09:33.926
That's so that's yeah.

01:09:34.167 --> 01:09:34.887
I hope it's successful.

01:09:34.908 --> 01:09:36.088
Like it's a, it's a good idea.

01:09:36.128 --> 01:09:37.689
And I, and I was, I was honest,

01:09:37.710 --> 01:09:38.649
like I don't think IP law

01:09:38.670 --> 01:09:39.871
should be existing at all, but,

01:09:40.412 --> 01:09:41.773
but I mean not, maybe not at all,

01:09:41.813 --> 01:09:43.654
but like it's the way it's written now.

01:09:43.713 --> 01:09:44.515
It doesn't make any sense.

01:09:44.555 --> 01:09:45.574
Like I think it just hinders,

01:09:46.296 --> 01:09:47.476
especially with like, you know,

01:09:48.826 --> 01:09:49.586
You got Apple, Google,

01:09:49.605 --> 01:09:50.706
whatever else is just

01:09:50.865 --> 01:09:51.766
literally writing patents

01:09:51.806 --> 01:09:53.726
on every fucking thing, right?

01:09:54.167 --> 01:09:55.847
Which I guess is different than pure IP,

01:09:55.868 --> 01:09:57.847
but still patent management

01:09:57.887 --> 01:09:58.528
and everything else kind of

01:09:58.547 --> 01:09:58.988
goes into that.

01:09:59.028 --> 01:09:59.228
But yeah.

01:09:59.247 --> 01:10:01.328
I mean,

01:10:01.368 --> 01:10:02.269
I don't meaningfully know the

01:10:02.288 --> 01:10:02.828
difference between

01:10:02.868 --> 01:10:04.569
intellectual property and a patent.

01:10:04.609 --> 01:10:09.451
That would have been a good question.

01:10:09.470 --> 01:10:09.911
We should ask them.

01:10:11.189 --> 01:10:12.069
know I thought about it and

01:10:12.088 --> 01:10:13.010
I was like you know what

01:10:13.210 --> 01:10:13.930
I'm not going to show I'm

01:10:13.949 --> 01:10:14.810
not going to totally show

01:10:14.831 --> 01:10:15.711
my hand and how little I

01:10:15.770 --> 01:10:17.572
know I was going to have

01:10:17.591 --> 01:10:18.712
fast answer I was like no

01:10:18.733 --> 01:10:19.332
I'm not going to do that

01:10:19.773 --> 01:10:23.095
let's just do that anything

01:10:23.135 --> 01:10:26.036
else you want to talk

01:10:26.136 --> 01:10:27.055
anything else I'm feeling

01:10:27.096 --> 01:10:28.476
optimistic news I mean

01:10:28.516 --> 01:10:30.537
crypto is doing well yeah I

01:10:30.557 --> 01:10:31.238
mean the market's doing

01:10:31.257 --> 01:10:33.640
pretty good right now um it

01:10:33.659 --> 01:10:34.159
seems like there's some

01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:36.001
decent energy out there it's by the hour

01:10:37.542 --> 01:10:39.404
like yesterday it was a shit

01:10:39.425 --> 01:10:41.065
show then today it's like

01:10:41.105 --> 01:10:42.728
fighting back a little bit

01:10:42.807 --> 01:10:44.729
yeah well I'm sure in one

01:10:44.770 --> 01:10:48.233
more week we'll know better

01:10:48.252 --> 01:10:49.894
where things are at boy is

01:10:49.913 --> 01:10:50.975
that when is when is the

01:10:51.055 --> 01:10:52.176
election anyway is it next

01:10:52.377 --> 01:10:53.837
tuesday I think that's next

01:10:54.217 --> 01:10:55.619
next week next next tuesday

01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:57.060
right god I can't wait for

01:10:57.081 --> 01:10:57.981
this fucking election to be

01:10:58.002 --> 01:11:01.244
over holy shit yeah

01:11:01.765 --> 01:11:01.926
Dude,

01:11:01.966 --> 01:11:04.488
the weeks before the election in the

01:11:04.548 --> 01:11:06.409
US are the fucking worst.

01:11:06.970 --> 01:11:07.891
It is the worst.

01:11:07.952 --> 01:11:09.932
Just media blitz and this and that.

01:11:10.154 --> 01:11:13.497
Just the commentary is so fucking dumb.

01:11:13.756 --> 01:11:16.399
I don't know.

01:11:16.439 --> 01:11:17.961
I just can't wait for it to be over.

01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.283
Honestly, put me out of my fucking misery.

01:11:21.573 --> 01:11:22.934
I do miss the time when our politics,

01:11:23.554 --> 01:11:24.833
politics always mattered, obviously,

01:11:24.913 --> 01:11:25.493
but I miss the time when

01:11:25.514 --> 01:11:26.875
our politics kind of didn't matter.

01:11:27.234 --> 01:11:27.534
Right now,

01:11:27.555 --> 01:11:28.555
the fact that I can go on a bike

01:11:28.595 --> 01:11:29.496
ride and I see like,

01:11:29.916 --> 01:11:31.436
it's like two years before

01:11:31.457 --> 01:11:32.596
the election and I'm seeing

01:11:32.756 --> 01:11:33.396
signs out already.

01:11:33.436 --> 01:11:36.257
I'm like, oh yeah, I don't need that.

01:11:36.278 --> 01:11:37.279
Whenever I'm thirty miles

01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:38.378
outside the nearest town,

01:11:38.759 --> 01:11:39.639
driving past some guy's

01:11:39.679 --> 01:11:41.140
house or riding past some guy's house.

01:11:41.604 --> 01:11:42.944
Well, after twenty twenty,

01:11:44.025 --> 01:11:45.405
I saw signs on yards all

01:11:45.426 --> 01:11:46.466
the way through twenty twenty three.

01:11:46.487 --> 01:11:48.148
Yeah.

01:11:48.207 --> 01:11:49.109
Even earlier this year that

01:11:49.128 --> 01:11:50.430
got replaced with newer signs.

01:11:50.449 --> 01:11:50.550
Yeah.

01:11:51.470 --> 01:11:51.670
Yeah.

01:11:52.030 --> 01:11:52.610
I know.

01:11:52.631 --> 01:11:52.831
I know.

01:11:53.251 --> 01:11:53.731
Yeah.

01:11:53.752 --> 01:11:53.872
Well,

01:11:53.891 --> 01:11:55.773
let's just be we don't start that

01:11:55.792 --> 01:11:56.292
conversation.

01:11:56.332 --> 01:11:56.734
But yeah,

01:11:56.753 --> 01:11:57.873
I'm just glad it's going to be over soon.

01:11:59.034 --> 01:12:01.355
So I sent my mail in ballot.

01:12:01.556 --> 01:12:03.578
I made fifty copies just to

01:12:03.597 --> 01:12:04.918
send all fifty and see what happens.

01:12:05.418 --> 01:12:07.760
Just to cope with so many

01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:08.520
fucking comments on that.

01:12:08.541 --> 01:12:09.201
We'll see if they got to the

01:12:09.220 --> 01:12:10.141
end of the podcast or not.

01:12:11.399 --> 01:12:12.121
I've been harassing my

01:12:12.161 --> 01:12:13.081
friends in Pennsylvania.

01:12:13.181 --> 01:12:14.943
Like, hey, you're voting, right?

01:12:15.604 --> 01:12:16.163
Listen, I don't care.

01:12:16.283 --> 01:12:17.024
I don't care what you're voting.

01:12:17.045 --> 01:12:17.765
You don't need to tell me,

01:12:18.025 --> 01:12:18.926
but you're voting, right?

01:12:19.046 --> 01:12:21.167
Because I know PA is becoming important.

01:12:21.948 --> 01:12:22.509
Yep.

01:12:22.529 --> 01:12:23.489
The keystone.

01:12:23.529 --> 01:12:24.230
It never was.

01:12:24.610 --> 01:12:25.652
And nobody gave a shit before.

01:12:26.393 --> 01:12:26.953
Like, well,

01:12:26.993 --> 01:12:28.453
maybe twenty twenty twenty sixteen.

01:12:28.474 --> 01:12:30.676
I think of that if actually

01:12:30.716 --> 01:12:32.278
PA was even at all a swing

01:12:32.318 --> 01:12:34.659
state like an oh eight or an oh four.

01:12:34.739 --> 01:12:36.841
I don't remember it being that way.

01:12:36.921 --> 01:12:38.603
I could be wrong, but.

01:12:39.216 --> 01:12:39.956
Um, or even Georgia,

01:12:39.996 --> 01:12:40.775
like Georgia turning into a

01:12:40.796 --> 01:12:41.777
swing state or Arizona.

01:12:41.936 --> 01:12:42.016
I,

01:12:42.457 --> 01:12:44.117
I remember like those things were never

01:12:44.277 --> 01:12:45.176
like little swing states.

01:12:45.396 --> 01:12:46.938
Those are like, it was always,

01:12:48.217 --> 01:12:49.858
it was always, uh, and even California,

01:12:49.978 --> 01:12:51.439
even California has like a, a pretty,

01:12:52.179 --> 01:12:52.918
it's getting to be, um,

01:12:53.219 --> 01:12:55.679
a little bit more balanced.

01:12:56.100 --> 01:12:56.819
So yeah.

01:12:56.899 --> 01:12:59.479
Anyway, I love the comments from France,

01:12:59.500 --> 01:13:01.261
the France, France prime minister.

01:13:01.461 --> 01:13:02.140
I think he's another

01:13:02.180 --> 01:13:03.140
president prime minister.

01:13:03.701 --> 01:13:04.900
And he's like, you know,

01:13:05.060 --> 01:13:05.841
I think we should kind of

01:13:06.042 --> 01:13:07.442
have our own military because

01:13:09.252 --> 01:13:10.512
Relying on hillbillies from

01:13:10.573 --> 01:13:15.155
Wisconsin every four years, isn't it?

01:13:15.195 --> 01:13:15.935
Something about that.

01:13:16.115 --> 01:13:16.216
Yeah.

01:13:16.336 --> 01:13:18.018
I was like, oh, that's scathing.

01:13:18.337 --> 01:13:18.698
What was that?

01:13:18.757 --> 01:13:19.097
What was that?

01:13:19.337 --> 01:13:20.319
What was that in context to

01:13:21.099 --> 01:13:22.399
like a specific event here or something?

01:13:22.439 --> 01:13:24.020
What was that about?

01:13:24.081 --> 01:13:26.203
Just the election and NATO

01:13:26.382 --> 01:13:28.463
because there's talks about

01:13:28.703 --> 01:13:29.625
NATO being dissolved.

01:13:29.925 --> 01:13:31.765
Yeah.

01:13:31.786 --> 01:13:32.546
Yeah.

01:13:32.587 --> 01:13:36.948
So anyway.

01:13:36.988 --> 01:13:37.409
Too funny.

01:13:38.712 --> 01:13:39.792
So next week, yeah, we'll have a,

01:13:39.972 --> 01:13:42.154
we'll have a president

01:13:42.394 --> 01:13:43.715
defined in the United States.

01:13:45.355 --> 01:13:47.036
And then we can ignore that

01:13:47.076 --> 01:13:47.777
for another four years.

01:13:47.796 --> 01:13:50.118
And then hopefully prices

01:13:50.158 --> 01:13:50.939
will be better because

01:13:50.958 --> 01:13:51.918
there's less uncertainty

01:13:51.979 --> 01:13:52.538
one way or another.

01:13:53.619 --> 01:13:53.739
Yeah.

01:13:53.819 --> 01:13:54.180
Uncertainty.

01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:54.701
I mean, honestly,

01:13:55.621 --> 01:13:57.761
a hundred percent like uncertainty drives,

01:13:58.162 --> 01:13:59.842
drives really bad things.

01:13:59.962 --> 01:14:00.684
Like we had that before.

01:14:00.703 --> 01:14:01.503
Remember what the fucking

01:14:01.684 --> 01:14:03.725
Bitcoin ETF and like Ethereum ETF.

01:14:03.744 --> 01:14:04.246
Remember that we were

01:14:04.265 --> 01:14:04.985
talking about that a while ago.

01:14:05.399 --> 01:14:06.680
that either either approve

01:14:06.699 --> 01:14:07.661
it or don't but just get

01:14:07.701 --> 01:14:08.881
out of this fucking circle

01:14:08.902 --> 01:14:10.922
because it just drives so

01:14:10.984 --> 01:14:13.385
much swing in terms of uh

01:14:13.404 --> 01:14:14.265
in terms of everything else

01:14:15.146 --> 01:14:16.207
yeah oh did you read that

01:14:16.228 --> 01:14:18.309
the vanguard ceo was fired

01:14:18.349 --> 01:14:21.792
because he uh blocked the

01:14:21.832 --> 01:14:23.512
bitcoin etf and people were

01:14:23.552 --> 01:14:24.875
angry about it oh really

01:14:25.854 --> 01:14:27.176
yeah sending a warning

01:14:27.195 --> 01:14:28.077
message to all the other

01:14:28.436 --> 01:14:30.418
wall streeters approve that

01:14:30.458 --> 01:14:31.760
juno etf let's get going

01:14:32.500 --> 01:14:35.940
That's right.

01:14:35.961 --> 01:14:36.301
Oh, man.

01:14:36.402 --> 01:14:36.782
Oh, good.

01:14:36.902 --> 01:14:37.442
PagerDuty.

01:14:37.862 --> 01:14:38.402
What's broken?

01:14:41.604 --> 01:14:41.863
I don't care.

01:14:41.884 --> 01:14:42.644
Any time I hear PagerDuty,

01:14:42.724 --> 01:14:43.524
I just have to check.

01:14:43.543 --> 01:14:46.204
I'm just like, ah.

01:14:46.284 --> 01:14:48.546
No, this is, this is,

01:14:48.565 --> 01:14:50.006
speaking of L-tos and shitty L-tos,

01:14:50.127 --> 01:14:50.827
not shitty L-tos,

01:14:51.106 --> 01:14:52.307
speaking of L-tos and like

01:14:52.467 --> 01:14:53.707
some things we never know

01:14:53.728 --> 01:14:54.507
whether they're working or not.

01:14:55.689 --> 01:14:57.970
We have a couple mode from mode network,

01:14:58.029 --> 01:14:58.409
M-O-D-E.

01:14:59.036 --> 01:15:00.537
And those L twos have been

01:15:00.697 --> 01:15:02.578
the most painful and like,

01:15:02.599 --> 01:15:03.880
they're just not transferred.

01:15:03.899 --> 01:15:04.800
They're just not moving forward.

01:15:04.819 --> 01:15:06.280
We're not sure exactly what's going on.

01:15:07.282 --> 01:15:08.842
Like it's just been a real,

01:15:09.122 --> 01:15:10.363
it's been a real pain in the ass.

01:15:10.885 --> 01:15:12.164
And I was just fighting with that today,

01:15:12.204 --> 01:15:12.845
trying to figure out what

01:15:13.046 --> 01:15:14.226
exactly is happening with that.

01:15:14.766 --> 01:15:15.608
And then also you and I are

01:15:16.188 --> 01:15:17.128
not much sleep because of

01:15:17.529 --> 01:15:19.451
some good old pager during

01:15:19.490 --> 01:15:20.070
the middle of the night

01:15:20.131 --> 01:15:21.692
from false alarms that we

01:15:21.731 --> 01:15:22.512
both got paged at.

01:15:23.314 --> 01:15:24.756
I can't believe it happened four times.

01:15:25.216 --> 01:15:26.359
That's too many.

01:15:27.100 --> 01:15:29.744
And the response by Aptos

01:15:29.765 --> 01:15:30.725
could have been a little better.

01:15:31.127 --> 01:15:31.807
Sorry about that.

01:15:31.828 --> 01:15:33.931
Yeah, exactly.

01:15:34.573 --> 01:15:35.394
I don't think we even got it.

01:15:35.434 --> 01:15:35.854
I'm sorry.

01:15:35.895 --> 01:15:37.797
I think they were just like, didn't work.

01:15:38.783 --> 01:15:39.585
That was a response of

01:15:40.125 --> 01:15:41.024
somebody looking at it at

01:15:41.185 --> 01:15:42.506
noon versus three a.m.

01:15:42.546 --> 01:15:43.185
That's what that was.

01:15:43.305 --> 01:15:45.027
That was somebody who was at a desk like,

01:15:45.306 --> 01:15:46.328
oh, yeah, that's shitty.

01:15:46.347 --> 01:15:47.608
I wonder why that went off.

01:15:47.908 --> 01:15:48.988
It went off four more times.

01:15:49.708 --> 01:15:52.609
Anyway, it's three forty five a.m.

01:15:52.730 --> 01:15:54.030
Eastern and my wife is going

01:15:54.051 --> 01:15:55.131
to fucking murder me.

01:15:56.324 --> 01:15:57.485
Cause she was like, turn it off.

01:15:57.525 --> 01:15:57.765
I'm like,

01:15:58.126 --> 01:15:59.927
I literally have no controls over this.

01:15:59.988 --> 01:16:00.268
Like I'm,

01:16:00.427 --> 01:16:01.748
I'm searching through the

01:16:01.789 --> 01:16:02.930
PagerDuty app to say,

01:16:03.511 --> 01:16:05.351
put my own thing in maintenance.

01:16:05.391 --> 01:16:05.893
Can't do it.

01:16:06.432 --> 01:16:06.713
Can't,

01:16:06.913 --> 01:16:08.475
I can't figure out how to turn it off.

01:16:08.595 --> 01:16:10.417
I can't like, literally I can't,

01:16:10.556 --> 01:16:11.658
I can silence the alarm,

01:16:11.677 --> 01:16:12.939
but then it just clears and

01:16:12.958 --> 01:16:13.559
then it comes back.

01:16:13.599 --> 01:16:14.279
Ten minutes later.

01:16:14.300 --> 01:16:15.480
Oh my God.

01:16:15.501 --> 01:16:17.221
She's like, go to the couch.

01:16:17.242 --> 01:16:20.904
Get out of this room.

01:16:20.944 --> 01:16:23.988
Well, so for me, they came in two batches,

01:16:24.028 --> 01:16:24.167
right?

01:16:24.188 --> 01:16:24.728
Two batches of two.

01:16:24.747 --> 01:16:25.349
Yeah.

01:16:26.081 --> 01:16:27.601
I had a nightmare between

01:16:27.622 --> 01:16:30.965
the two where like I woke

01:16:31.085 --> 01:16:33.827
up thinking that my baby was next to me.

01:16:34.287 --> 01:16:35.887
And so I like was up for

01:16:35.908 --> 01:16:37.168
like five minutes holding him.

01:16:37.349 --> 01:16:38.170
We didn't exist.

01:16:39.610 --> 01:16:40.451
I just woke up with a, yeah.

01:16:40.470 --> 01:16:42.432
And then after like five

01:16:42.453 --> 01:16:44.914
minutes I was like, wait,

01:16:44.954 --> 01:16:45.654
it's not my turn.

01:16:45.734 --> 01:16:46.876
And I went back to sleep and

01:16:46.895 --> 01:16:47.617
then immediately I woke him

01:16:47.636 --> 01:16:48.938
back up again by page of duty.

01:16:49.097 --> 01:16:49.717
Oh my goodness.

01:16:51.019 --> 01:16:51.599
That's crazy.

01:16:52.199 --> 01:16:53.081
As long as you didn't like,

01:16:53.400 --> 01:16:54.942
so you thought he was in your arms?

01:16:56.060 --> 01:16:56.822
In bed, yeah.

01:16:56.862 --> 01:16:57.462
And I was like, oh, man,

01:16:57.483 --> 01:16:58.884
I feel so irresponsible right now,

01:16:58.904 --> 01:16:59.625
but I'm so tired.

01:16:59.664 --> 01:17:00.466
I'm just going to stay in bed.

01:17:00.485 --> 01:17:05.390
Oh, my goodness.

01:17:06.891 --> 01:17:08.913
Which, that's a horrible nightmare.

01:17:09.134 --> 01:17:10.336
Well, I mean, honestly, we...

01:17:11.957 --> 01:17:12.176
Yeah,

01:17:12.197 --> 01:17:13.377
it is a horrible nightmare because

01:17:13.438 --> 01:17:14.479
the other thing that I

01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:15.761
think comes with lack of

01:17:15.820 --> 01:17:17.483
sleep and young kids is

01:17:17.542 --> 01:17:18.904
that eventually you wear out.

01:17:19.463 --> 01:17:20.244
And in those situations,

01:17:20.265 --> 01:17:21.185
if you're holding a kid,

01:17:21.225 --> 01:17:22.887
like there's been bad

01:17:22.927 --> 01:17:23.748
situations all the time

01:17:23.769 --> 01:17:25.189
where like somebody gets

01:17:25.250 --> 01:17:26.030
dropped or somebody gets

01:17:26.110 --> 01:17:27.372
rolled over on or you do

01:17:27.391 --> 01:17:28.594
whatever else because you

01:17:28.634 --> 01:17:30.515
just can't stay awake, right?

01:17:31.036 --> 01:17:32.277
And yeah,

01:17:32.317 --> 01:17:33.377
that stuff gets really dangerous

01:17:33.578 --> 01:17:33.899
for sure.

01:17:35.122 --> 01:17:37.765
We are wrecking coffee right now.

01:17:38.225 --> 01:17:39.225
I was pretty good with only

01:17:39.265 --> 01:17:40.185
a single coffee a day.

01:17:41.207 --> 01:17:43.188
A single coffee.

01:17:43.387 --> 01:17:43.587
Yeah.

01:17:43.608 --> 01:17:45.309
Normally I'm very sensitive to caffeine,

01:17:46.430 --> 01:17:47.149
but right now I'm sleeping

01:17:47.190 --> 01:17:48.530
so little anyway that I'm like, oh,

01:17:48.671 --> 01:17:49.572
well just put it,

01:17:49.851 --> 01:17:50.893
just give me a straight IV

01:17:51.252 --> 01:17:52.493
and having espresso machine.

01:17:53.154 --> 01:17:55.034
Like I've already been happy

01:17:55.055 --> 01:17:55.855
with the espresso machine,

01:17:56.896 --> 01:17:58.077
but now I'm especially thankful.

01:17:58.157 --> 01:17:58.518
Like, huh?

01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:00.782
I'm so happy that I get to

01:18:00.822 --> 01:18:01.783
have coffee that I

01:18:02.125 --> 01:18:03.686
genuinely enjoy right now.

01:18:03.766 --> 01:18:03.988
Yeah.

01:18:04.268 --> 01:18:04.929
I had to move away from a

01:18:04.948 --> 01:18:05.871
special cause I was pulling

01:18:05.911 --> 01:18:06.773
shots like crazy.

01:18:06.792 --> 01:18:07.514
And I would do like,

01:18:08.769 --> 01:18:09.909
like two double shot,

01:18:09.970 --> 01:18:11.292
two or three double shots through,

01:18:11.511 --> 01:18:12.372
through like the morning.

01:18:12.752 --> 01:18:13.914
And I would, it would be too much.

01:18:14.314 --> 01:18:16.337
So now I just, I just brew a pot and I,

01:18:16.457 --> 01:18:16.877
I like,

01:18:16.898 --> 01:18:18.239
I'll drink a liter of coffee though.

01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:18.899
Don't get me wrong.

01:18:18.939 --> 01:18:19.461
Like I will drink.

01:18:20.082 --> 01:18:21.382
I mean, it's like a, it's like a small,

01:18:21.542 --> 01:18:22.304
it's like a small pot.

01:18:22.344 --> 01:18:22.524
Right.

01:18:23.364 --> 01:18:25.146
Um, but, uh,

01:18:25.226 --> 01:18:26.588
it's not like for the course of the day,

01:18:26.609 --> 01:18:27.470
like that's from like eight

01:18:27.850 --> 01:18:29.152
something till two or something.

01:18:30.012 --> 01:18:30.153
Um,

01:18:31.646 --> 01:18:33.710
so anyway yeah but like I

01:18:33.729 --> 01:18:34.610
couldn't pull like those

01:18:34.631 --> 01:18:35.712
shots like there's so much

01:18:35.752 --> 01:18:36.592
caffeine in those like it's

01:18:36.854 --> 01:18:39.176
it gets to be it's like way too much

01:18:40.862 --> 01:18:42.622
yeah so anyway so and then I

01:18:42.662 --> 01:18:44.123
I actually the to that

01:18:44.243 --> 01:18:45.203
team's credit after I

01:18:45.243 --> 01:18:45.904
posted something in the

01:18:45.923 --> 01:18:46.805
slack saying like this this

01:18:46.885 --> 01:18:47.765
seems like it's not working

01:18:48.365 --> 01:18:50.726
related related to us uh

01:18:50.747 --> 01:18:51.527
getting page duties in the

01:18:51.546 --> 01:18:52.328
middle night and then and

01:18:52.347 --> 01:18:53.648
then uh somebody reached

01:18:53.667 --> 01:18:54.328
out from the team like

01:18:54.349 --> 01:18:55.149
let's let's talk about this

01:18:55.168 --> 01:18:55.628
a little bit more let's

01:18:55.649 --> 01:18:57.130
understand it so we I came

01:18:57.149 --> 01:18:57.770
up with a little bit of a

01:18:57.810 --> 01:18:58.690
workaround which I don't

01:18:58.711 --> 01:18:59.810
know if it works but one

01:18:59.831 --> 01:19:00.652
thing you might want to do

01:19:00.671 --> 01:19:02.011
I was going to tell this to

01:19:02.471 --> 01:19:05.213
fray as well is like right now I'm

01:19:05.953 --> 01:19:08.256
we have their own Aptos PagerDuty, right?

01:19:08.296 --> 01:19:10.777
There's a PagerDuty that we subscribe to.

01:19:10.837 --> 01:19:11.858
I have a couple of those

01:19:11.877 --> 01:19:13.519
with Teams where basically

01:19:13.559 --> 01:19:17.720
we're users on their monitoring system.

01:19:18.181 --> 01:19:19.922
And so if something is down

01:19:19.943 --> 01:19:21.023
with one of our nodes,

01:19:21.444 --> 01:19:22.543
just for folks who are listening in,

01:19:23.024 --> 01:19:23.664
then what they do is they

01:19:23.685 --> 01:19:24.966
basically have the ability

01:19:25.006 --> 01:19:26.627
to monitor some aspect of

01:19:26.747 --> 01:19:29.788
our operations and do an alert to us,

01:19:29.868 --> 01:19:30.048
right?

01:19:30.969 --> 01:19:31.710
And so what I did is I

01:19:31.750 --> 01:19:32.909
changed all my contact

01:19:32.930 --> 01:19:35.231
information to be an email address

01:19:36.180 --> 01:19:37.282
at my pager duty.

01:19:38.243 --> 01:19:39.863
And so what that'll do is

01:19:40.305 --> 01:19:41.185
when they alert it,

01:19:41.326 --> 01:19:42.186
it'll actually go create an

01:19:42.207 --> 01:19:43.106
alert on mine.

01:19:43.728 --> 01:19:45.670
And which means I can then silence it.

01:19:46.109 --> 01:19:46.911
I can control it.

01:19:47.390 --> 01:19:48.591
I have management over it.

01:19:48.712 --> 01:19:49.512
I can escalate it.

01:19:49.953 --> 01:19:50.814
I can do what I want.

01:19:51.194 --> 01:19:52.216
So what that doesn't do is

01:19:52.256 --> 01:19:53.817
it doesn't acknowledge it on theirs,

01:19:54.217 --> 01:19:54.778
but I don't think they're

01:19:54.797 --> 01:19:56.380
looking at it anyway, to be honest.

01:19:56.920 --> 01:19:58.240
Whether it's acknowledge or silence,

01:19:58.261 --> 01:19:59.180
I don't think they really care.

01:19:59.501 --> 01:20:00.101
Because really what they

01:20:00.122 --> 01:20:00.862
want to do is have people

01:20:00.881 --> 01:20:01.702
come back to Slack and see

01:20:01.721 --> 01:20:02.302
if there's anything that

01:20:02.323 --> 01:20:02.743
needs to be done.

01:20:03.302 --> 01:20:04.663
And so I started putting on it.

01:20:04.684 --> 01:20:05.323
I just did that today.

01:20:05.384 --> 01:20:06.444
I just moved it to mine.

01:20:06.484 --> 01:20:08.845
So if it runs on mine, then I can say, hey,

01:20:08.865 --> 01:20:10.326
let's do this for twenty four hours.

01:20:10.345 --> 01:20:13.287
And so as many times as as.

01:20:14.287 --> 01:20:17.130
uh they email that um it

01:20:17.189 --> 01:20:18.490
won't matter because it's a

01:20:18.610 --> 01:20:20.231
single incident and I think

01:20:20.271 --> 01:20:21.773
I could just I can just

01:20:21.872 --> 01:20:23.434
mute it or I could say hey

01:20:23.453 --> 01:20:24.635
I would know about an hour

01:20:24.654 --> 01:20:25.635
if it's a false alarm I can

01:20:25.654 --> 01:20:26.975
ignore for twelve hours so

01:20:27.036 --> 01:20:27.775
we'll see if it happens

01:20:27.796 --> 01:20:29.738
again we'll see if if my uh

01:20:29.837 --> 01:20:30.898
approach is right or wrong

01:20:30.917 --> 01:20:31.658
yeah let me know because

01:20:31.698 --> 01:20:33.579
that'd be that'd be awesome

01:20:34.146 --> 01:20:34.426
Yeah.

01:20:34.447 --> 01:20:35.368
So I got rid of all the

01:20:35.389 --> 01:20:36.390
other communication methods.

01:20:36.409 --> 01:20:36.970
Actually, it's not true.

01:20:37.029 --> 01:20:37.650
I think I left it.

01:20:37.690 --> 01:20:39.552
If it was a couple hours later,

01:20:39.573 --> 01:20:40.515
if I didn't acknowledge it,

01:20:41.775 --> 01:20:42.636
I do a text or something,

01:20:43.137 --> 01:20:44.179
but I just don't want that

01:20:44.219 --> 01:20:45.260
ability where I keep

01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:46.521
getting pinged every thirty minutes.

01:20:46.582 --> 01:20:48.925
I have no control over it or

01:20:48.944 --> 01:20:49.625
every ten minutes or

01:20:49.645 --> 01:20:50.225
whatever the hell it was

01:20:50.246 --> 01:20:50.766
because that was.

01:20:50.846 --> 01:20:50.987
Yeah,

01:20:51.006 --> 01:20:51.988
because it's not like we can silence

01:20:52.028 --> 01:20:54.270
our phones like we have other alarms.

01:20:54.451 --> 01:20:54.871
Not only that,

01:20:54.890 --> 01:20:57.113
but even if I silence that alarm, I can't,

01:20:57.394 --> 01:20:58.515
like if I had an issue with

01:20:58.614 --> 01:20:59.595
Aptos and I knew that there

01:20:59.615 --> 01:21:00.377
was a false alert,

01:21:00.457 --> 01:21:01.096
I could at least put it in

01:21:01.117 --> 01:21:02.399
maintenance for like an

01:21:02.458 --> 01:21:03.539
hour or something and say,

01:21:03.619 --> 01:21:04.940
or a couple hours and say, hey,

01:21:04.980 --> 01:21:06.422
if this thing alarms,

01:21:06.483 --> 01:21:07.663
I know it's bullshit, so ignore it.

01:21:07.923 --> 01:21:08.625
And if something else

01:21:08.664 --> 01:21:10.065
happens in a different area,

01:21:10.086 --> 01:21:11.507
then it's fine, right?

01:21:11.568 --> 01:21:13.590
But this at least allows me to do that,

01:21:13.609 --> 01:21:14.871
where on their side, I can't do anything.

01:21:14.890 --> 01:21:15.771
I can't change the schedule.

01:21:16.292 --> 01:21:17.073
All right,

01:21:17.092 --> 01:21:17.832
maybe I can change the schedule.

01:21:17.893 --> 01:21:18.554
I couldn't change.

01:21:19.154 --> 01:21:20.215
I couldn't mark my own stuff

01:21:20.234 --> 01:21:20.676
in maintenance.

01:21:20.735 --> 01:21:21.577
I couldn't do blah, blah, blah.

01:21:21.716 --> 01:21:22.417
So it's just like, oof.

01:21:22.436 --> 01:21:22.917
Anyway, it was- Well,

01:21:22.938 --> 01:21:26.239
the irony is I don't know

01:21:26.260 --> 01:21:26.661
what they're really

01:21:26.701 --> 01:21:29.443
tracking because I brought

01:21:29.483 --> 01:21:30.623
my node down once for like

01:21:31.185 --> 01:21:32.305
two hours or something and

01:21:32.326 --> 01:21:33.185
they never notified me.

01:21:33.426 --> 01:21:34.287
So like, what are they tracking?

01:21:34.828 --> 01:21:35.768
Are they actually tracking your uptime?

01:21:35.847 --> 01:21:36.189
I don't think so.

01:21:36.208 --> 01:21:37.949
I think it's like network wide uptime.

01:21:38.010 --> 01:21:39.211
So it's like, if it goes out to one,

01:21:39.230 --> 01:21:39.952
it goes out to everyone.

01:21:40.271 --> 01:21:41.172
They only care if a certain

01:21:41.193 --> 01:21:42.213
amount of the network goes down,

01:21:42.533 --> 01:21:43.414
which fine.

01:21:44.121 --> 01:21:44.842
but yeah.

01:21:44.922 --> 01:21:45.122
Yeah.

01:21:45.484 --> 01:21:45.725
Yeah.

01:21:45.765 --> 01:21:47.028
Well, I don't think we've ever had,

01:21:48.149 --> 01:21:49.273
this is the only alert I've ever,

01:21:49.592 --> 01:21:50.255
the only alerts I've ever

01:21:50.295 --> 01:21:51.738
gotten have been false alarms.

01:21:52.594 --> 01:21:53.094
Same.

01:21:53.113 --> 01:21:53.914
That's what I'm saying.

01:21:53.954 --> 01:21:54.074
Like,

01:21:54.095 --> 01:21:54.956
I don't know what they're actually

01:21:55.095 --> 01:21:55.537
tracking there.

01:21:55.556 --> 01:21:55.796
Yeah.

01:21:56.216 --> 01:21:57.478
And that was my point too, is like,

01:21:57.518 --> 01:21:58.479
like if that's fine,

01:21:58.599 --> 01:21:59.920
like false alarms are false

01:21:59.939 --> 01:22:00.581
alarms and I could,

01:22:00.621 --> 01:22:01.502
we could work around that.

01:22:01.662 --> 01:22:02.823
But the other thing would be like,

01:22:02.903 --> 01:22:03.403
there also,

01:22:03.502 --> 01:22:04.304
there doesn't need to be a way

01:22:04.323 --> 01:22:05.284
for that team to be able to

01:22:05.305 --> 01:22:06.225
get people to the channel.

01:22:06.265 --> 01:22:06.786
Like if there's a,

01:22:06.826 --> 01:22:08.106
if there's a vulnerability

01:22:08.127 --> 01:22:08.927
or something else and Hey,

01:22:08.967 --> 01:22:09.649
we need an emergency

01:22:09.668 --> 01:22:10.609
upgrade and I need people here.

01:22:11.210 --> 01:22:12.230
I have no issue with that.

01:22:12.291 --> 01:22:13.832
Like that totally makes sense.

01:22:13.851 --> 01:22:14.993
Like there needs to be ways to do that,

01:22:15.052 --> 01:22:15.193
but,

01:22:15.613 --> 01:22:17.154
but not at the expense of now me

01:22:17.194 --> 01:22:18.997
ignoring Aptos alarms because I,

01:22:19.670 --> 01:22:20.430
they're not right.

01:22:22.231 --> 01:22:23.073
That was kind of my point.

01:22:23.673 --> 01:22:26.536
So yeah, I don't know.

01:22:26.555 --> 01:22:27.117
All I know is- How do you

01:22:27.136 --> 01:22:29.998
feel about giving teams a page duty key?

01:22:30.220 --> 01:22:31.220
If you have like an SLA with them?

01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:31.940
I do.

01:22:33.002 --> 01:22:33.603
You do?

01:22:33.662 --> 01:22:34.103
I do.

01:22:34.283 --> 01:22:35.564
I give, actually, I don't give a key.

01:22:35.644 --> 01:22:38.766
I give, I create, I have separate services

01:22:39.801 --> 01:22:41.221
based on whatever I have a

01:22:41.242 --> 01:22:42.841
service strategy and then I

01:22:42.862 --> 01:22:43.903
will create them an email

01:22:43.943 --> 01:22:46.404
key um for that specific

01:22:46.444 --> 01:22:47.204
service because you could

01:22:47.324 --> 01:22:47.965
you could always generate

01:22:48.005 --> 01:22:49.005
email key for any service

01:22:49.626 --> 01:22:50.206
and then I'll give it to

01:22:50.225 --> 01:22:51.126
that team and say hey if

01:22:51.166 --> 01:22:53.346
you need me fucking put

01:22:53.367 --> 01:22:54.347
this in your contacts and

01:22:54.387 --> 01:22:55.528
so if they use that then

01:22:55.547 --> 01:22:56.548
it'll go through a standard

01:22:57.009 --> 01:22:58.010
high priority escalation

01:22:58.109 --> 01:22:58.970
type structure like it'll

01:22:59.130 --> 01:23:01.371
it'll it'll it goes apeshit

01:23:01.390 --> 01:23:02.572
you know what I mean smart

01:23:02.692 --> 01:23:05.073
so I I do those for different commands

01:23:06.212 --> 01:23:07.592
Oh, no, no, I don't do that.

01:23:07.712 --> 01:23:08.314
You can do an email.

01:23:08.333 --> 01:23:09.314
You just do a simple email.

01:23:09.354 --> 01:23:09.635
That's smart.

01:23:09.694 --> 01:23:12.396
It has a GUID at the end of it,

01:23:12.476 --> 01:23:14.139
and it says blah, blah, blah.

01:23:14.298 --> 01:23:15.680
But if somebody emails that,

01:23:15.980 --> 01:23:17.561
I do that for Stargaze.

01:23:17.582 --> 01:23:18.082
I do it for Say.

01:23:18.141 --> 01:23:20.524
I do it for a bunch of other ones, too.

01:23:21.685 --> 01:23:23.247
So that gives the ability to

01:23:23.266 --> 01:23:24.328
say it doesn't matter who's on call.

01:23:24.347 --> 01:23:25.748
But most people just ping me

01:23:25.769 --> 01:23:26.670
and telegram anyway,

01:23:27.409 --> 01:23:28.971
unless it's an emergency.

01:23:29.072 --> 01:23:30.193
But nobody's ever used that thing.

01:23:31.761 --> 01:23:31.961
ever.

01:23:32.621 --> 01:23:34.502
Like it's never, it's never happened yet,

01:23:34.561 --> 01:23:36.462
but they have it, which I guess is,

01:23:36.481 --> 01:23:36.802
that's good.

01:23:36.823 --> 01:23:37.662
That's what you want to say, right?

01:23:38.462 --> 01:23:39.063
Yeah.

01:23:39.082 --> 01:23:39.823
You don't want, I don't want them.

01:23:40.043 --> 01:23:40.363
I mean,

01:23:40.884 --> 01:23:42.043
it means we have an analogy toward

01:23:42.243 --> 01:23:43.064
it's been that bad.

01:23:43.125 --> 01:23:45.904
So at least that's,

01:23:46.125 --> 01:23:50.627
that's my going in position.

01:23:50.686 --> 01:23:51.067
All right.

01:23:53.747 --> 01:23:54.148
Calling it.

01:23:55.507 --> 01:23:56.189
Yeah, we did pretty good.

01:23:56.788 --> 01:23:57.349
Our twenty three.

01:23:58.277 --> 01:23:58.938
Yeah.

01:23:58.957 --> 01:23:59.759
This will shorten an hour.

01:23:59.798 --> 01:24:00.059
Twenty.

01:24:00.099 --> 01:24:00.960
We had a good conversation.

01:24:01.100 --> 01:24:02.680
We actually kept it together.

01:24:03.542 --> 01:24:04.122
There's nothing else.

01:24:04.222 --> 01:24:05.784
I mean, there's a lot of new shit going on,

01:24:06.444 --> 01:24:06.985
which is fun.

01:24:07.006 --> 01:24:07.987
There is.

01:24:08.067 --> 01:24:08.807
Yeah.

01:24:08.847 --> 01:24:09.809
Something's going to main net,

01:24:09.929 --> 01:24:10.469
which is fun.

01:24:10.488 --> 01:24:13.572
So talk about Supra.

01:24:13.692 --> 01:24:18.256
So some things that mean

01:24:18.317 --> 01:24:19.497
we're in main net there, I guess.

01:24:19.658 --> 01:24:20.698
I guess that's happening.

01:24:21.908 --> 01:24:22.989
I have nodes that I think

01:24:23.091 --> 01:24:24.152
are being monitored in some

01:24:24.171 --> 01:24:25.153
sort of way that are

01:24:25.172 --> 01:24:26.073
producing some sort of

01:24:26.134 --> 01:24:30.059
thing that might return

01:24:30.099 --> 01:24:31.541
some sort of reward, I think is fair.

01:24:32.943 --> 01:24:33.823
Yep.

01:24:33.863 --> 01:24:34.765
That's about how I feel about it.

01:24:34.824 --> 01:24:36.606
Yep.

01:24:36.627 --> 01:24:37.488
There's definitely things

01:24:37.507 --> 01:24:38.029
that are running.

01:24:38.689 --> 01:24:39.850
There's logs being generated.

01:24:39.930 --> 01:24:40.492
I see the logs.

01:24:41.243 --> 01:24:42.743
Definitely a lot of logs, that's for sure.

01:24:42.764 --> 01:24:44.626
Those logs being generated.

01:24:44.805 --> 01:24:46.167
And a lot of Google Sheets

01:24:46.207 --> 01:24:46.926
are being generated.

01:24:47.127 --> 01:24:48.729
There's a lot of Shell

01:24:48.748 --> 01:24:49.569
scripts and a lot of Google

01:24:49.588 --> 01:24:50.350
Sheets being generated.

01:24:51.050 --> 01:24:51.270
Yep.

01:24:53.171 --> 01:24:54.552
All right.

01:24:56.253 --> 01:24:56.474
Cheers.