WEBVTT

00:00:00.349 --> 00:00:01.010
Zabbix thing.

00:00:01.731 --> 00:00:02.692
Did it make you hard?

00:00:03.653 --> 00:00:03.992
It did.

00:00:04.894 --> 00:00:05.955
I had to go through, I mean,

00:00:05.974 --> 00:00:06.554
we should talk about it

00:00:06.594 --> 00:00:09.018
because that there's the

00:00:09.038 --> 00:00:10.198
way that they handle IDs

00:00:10.218 --> 00:00:11.019
and there's a total mess.

00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:12.320
I do the same thing on Grafana,

00:00:12.781 --> 00:00:14.343
but I did add a trigger on it.

00:00:14.382 --> 00:00:15.464
And I also had some version

00:00:15.503 --> 00:00:17.306
catching and some other stuff.

00:00:17.466 --> 00:00:17.966
So I did some,

00:00:18.047 --> 00:00:19.027
I did some basic work and

00:00:19.047 --> 00:00:19.608
then I realized I don't

00:00:19.628 --> 00:00:20.248
really care about that,

00:00:20.289 --> 00:00:21.510
but you added stuff.

00:00:21.530 --> 00:00:21.710
Yeah.

00:00:37.259 --> 00:00:37.999
Welcome to Game of Nodes,

00:00:38.018 --> 00:00:39.420
a weekly podcast from

00:00:40.780 --> 00:00:42.000
independent validated teams,

00:00:42.220 --> 00:00:45.322
increasingly frustrated by

00:00:45.381 --> 00:00:46.503
Zabbix configuration,

00:00:46.722 --> 00:00:47.843
by the sound of things.

00:00:47.862 --> 00:00:49.084
How are you doing, fellas?

00:00:50.676 --> 00:00:51.917
We're not frustrated.

00:00:51.978 --> 00:00:53.460
We're jiving, man.

00:00:53.740 --> 00:00:54.360
You're just jiving.

00:00:54.381 --> 00:00:57.564
We're jamming.

00:00:57.963 --> 00:00:59.585
It's like jazz, isn't it?

00:00:59.625 --> 00:01:01.307
You know, your Zabbix configuration.

00:01:01.326 --> 00:01:02.628
It's very free-flowing.

00:01:03.128 --> 00:01:04.349
People drop in and out.

00:01:04.469 --> 00:01:06.352
They contribute what they need to.

00:01:06.412 --> 00:01:07.352
Then they move on.

00:01:08.933 --> 00:01:11.296
That is the key word, what they need to.

00:01:11.537 --> 00:01:12.837
It's like, I need this thing,

00:01:12.878 --> 00:01:14.500
so I'm going to add it and fuck the rest.

00:01:14.620 --> 00:01:15.521
That's what I do anyway.

00:01:16.585 --> 00:01:17.686
Is there anything but

00:01:17.745 --> 00:01:19.447
necessity and creativity?

00:01:19.826 --> 00:01:20.427
I ask you that.

00:01:21.546 --> 00:01:22.606
Bare minimum.

00:01:23.748 --> 00:01:24.808
Is there anything but the

00:01:24.828 --> 00:01:27.367
bare minimum in late-stage capitalism?

00:01:27.447 --> 00:01:29.429
Fucking no, there is not.

00:01:31.688 --> 00:01:32.228
Lovely stuff.

00:01:32.289 --> 00:01:32.888
Love to see it.

00:01:34.129 --> 00:01:35.769
What have you fellas been up to then?

00:01:36.409 --> 00:01:36.950
Oh, you know,

00:01:36.989 --> 00:01:40.090
just fucking recovering nodes.

00:01:40.210 --> 00:01:41.870
You know, just recovering nodes.

00:01:41.971 --> 00:01:42.490
Not much.

00:01:42.611 --> 00:01:43.451
It's honest work.

00:01:43.811 --> 00:01:45.072
It's a test net shit show today,

00:01:45.111 --> 00:01:45.432
wasn't it?

00:01:46.094 --> 00:01:47.536
Watching people wake up to

00:01:47.596 --> 00:01:49.218
fucking upgrades,

00:01:50.399 --> 00:01:52.260
proceeding to not do them for hours.

00:01:58.846 --> 00:01:59.447
Sensational.

00:02:02.049 --> 00:02:02.709
Unfortunately,

00:02:02.810 --> 00:02:04.352
I can only hang out for an

00:02:04.391 --> 00:02:05.112
hour this morning.

00:02:05.293 --> 00:02:05.912
So, you know,

00:02:05.953 --> 00:02:07.474
if you've got any burning questions,

00:02:07.534 --> 00:02:08.915
just get them out of the way.

00:02:09.056 --> 00:02:10.016
Why can you only hang out

00:02:10.056 --> 00:02:10.937
for an hour this morning?

00:02:12.728 --> 00:02:14.389
I need to go into the big

00:02:14.468 --> 00:02:16.991
city and test some fiber

00:02:17.010 --> 00:02:19.233
with the fiber man.

00:02:19.332 --> 00:02:20.114
Oh, do they lay it?

00:02:21.334 --> 00:02:25.677
Hey, did they actually finish the, uh,

00:02:25.698 --> 00:02:26.717
your little connection, right?

00:02:26.737 --> 00:02:27.658
They're trying to get like a

00:02:27.718 --> 00:02:28.539
connection back and forth.

00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:30.621
So they have all the cross

00:02:30.640 --> 00:02:31.581
connects are done and they

00:02:31.641 --> 00:02:33.182
said their sides patched in

00:02:33.383 --> 00:02:34.683
and my sides patched in,

00:02:34.764 --> 00:02:36.325
but there's no like, uh,

00:02:37.098 --> 00:02:39.060
talky talky so either I have

00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:42.020
the wrong sfp or there's a

00:02:42.100 --> 00:02:42.941
problem with the cross

00:02:42.961 --> 00:02:44.040
connect somewhere so we're

00:02:44.581 --> 00:02:46.102
gonna figure that out is it

00:02:46.122 --> 00:02:47.002
this is the data center

00:02:47.021 --> 00:02:49.562
yeah at the data center yes

00:02:49.582 --> 00:02:52.383
don't ladies knock on

00:02:52.403 --> 00:02:52.984
blinky blinky yeah it's

00:02:53.004 --> 00:02:57.006
kind of no there's lots of

00:02:57.066 --> 00:02:59.007
like confusion around what

00:02:59.046 --> 00:03:02.427
the equipment required is I I asked them

00:03:03.449 --> 00:03:05.491
straight up what I needed to

00:03:05.551 --> 00:03:07.092
talk to this stuff and just

00:03:07.152 --> 00:03:09.314
like they told me I needed

00:03:09.335 --> 00:03:12.078
a one thousand base t lr

00:03:12.198 --> 00:03:14.180
and I'm like it doesn't

00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.001
sound right for for like a

00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.963
ten gig connection doesn't

00:03:19.084 --> 00:03:19.884
sound right to me

00:03:20.876 --> 00:03:22.296
yeah and they're like you

00:03:22.317 --> 00:03:23.516
know whether it's single

00:03:23.556 --> 00:03:25.298
mode or multi-mode bit of

00:03:25.337 --> 00:03:28.579
confusion I told the guy

00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:29.479
yesterday that I had a

00:03:29.538 --> 00:03:30.800
single mode sfp and he's

00:03:30.819 --> 00:03:32.000
like oh no man you need

00:03:32.060 --> 00:03:33.941
full duplex I'm like you're

00:03:33.961 --> 00:03:35.942
a fiber guy right that's

00:03:36.162 --> 00:03:38.022
two different things so

00:03:38.082 --> 00:03:38.603
totally two different

00:03:38.622 --> 00:03:41.463
things yeah uh so I don't

00:03:41.484 --> 00:03:42.403
know we're gonna go and

00:03:42.805 --> 00:03:44.044
like you know just look at

00:03:44.064 --> 00:03:45.246
it and kick the tires today

00:03:45.286 --> 00:03:46.225
and try to get it working

00:03:46.725 --> 00:03:48.967
are you bringing a a bucket full of parts

00:03:52.096 --> 00:03:52.516
I would,

00:03:52.576 --> 00:03:54.298
except I don't really have like a

00:03:54.338 --> 00:03:55.759
good stock of SFPs.

00:03:55.979 --> 00:03:57.461
SFPs are the only things I need.

00:03:59.022 --> 00:04:00.144
Sorry, what the fuck is an SFP?

00:04:00.264 --> 00:04:02.665
It's like a little module

00:04:02.686 --> 00:04:03.847
that goes in a little cage

00:04:04.287 --> 00:04:05.709
that you plug the fiber into.

00:04:05.748 --> 00:04:08.631
So it's like it's SFP can be

00:04:08.670 --> 00:04:11.533
many different forms of connection.

00:04:11.574 --> 00:04:13.295
Like it can be fiber or

00:04:13.355 --> 00:04:14.637
copper or it's just

00:04:14.676 --> 00:04:15.837
converts the little cage

00:04:15.877 --> 00:04:16.918
into something that you need.

00:04:18.331 --> 00:04:20.632
So instead of having like a

00:04:20.673 --> 00:04:23.214
cat six cable plug into the switch,

00:04:23.235 --> 00:04:24.255
it's like a little cage

00:04:24.295 --> 00:04:25.858
that you plug in a module

00:04:25.978 --> 00:04:27.238
that will convert it to what you need.

00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:28.880
When I say cage,

00:04:28.901 --> 00:04:30.362
it's just a hole in the box.

00:04:30.502 --> 00:04:31.983
It's a slot.

00:04:32.122 --> 00:04:34.425
It's called a small form factor pluggable.

00:04:35.170 --> 00:04:35.790
So basically it's like a

00:04:35.831 --> 00:04:37.011
converter that you can use

00:04:37.211 --> 00:04:39.651
different types of fiber connections.

00:04:39.732 --> 00:04:41.172
You can use an ethernet connection.

00:04:41.552 --> 00:04:43.952
It just allows, it's like a, it's like a,

00:04:43.973 --> 00:04:46.494
I don't even know how you, it's like,

00:04:46.514 --> 00:04:49.834
I mean, I think it's just wonderful.

00:04:49.875 --> 00:04:50.795
We live in such a tolerant

00:04:50.814 --> 00:04:51.855
society that you can just

00:04:51.875 --> 00:04:53.456
talk about your kink in public like this.

00:04:53.475 --> 00:04:54.495
I mean, it's fucking great.

00:04:54.516 --> 00:04:55.935
It's a lot of progress.

00:04:55.956 --> 00:04:56.896
A little swappable.

00:04:57.415 --> 00:04:59.177
You put your transceiver in there.

00:04:59.757 --> 00:05:00.836
You go all the way,

00:05:00.857 --> 00:05:02.778
all the way downtown to have a full day.

00:05:02.937 --> 00:05:03.377
Just basically,

00:05:04.531 --> 00:05:06.151
exercising your rights as a

00:05:06.232 --> 00:05:08.711
private citizen they are

00:05:08.771 --> 00:05:10.072
necessary because there's

00:05:10.132 --> 00:05:11.452
so much diversity in

00:05:11.512 --> 00:05:13.793
transceivers so there is

00:05:13.853 --> 00:05:15.673
you could have the thing

00:05:15.694 --> 00:05:17.115
with fiber is if you have

00:05:18.295 --> 00:05:19.074
say you've got a forty

00:05:19.095 --> 00:05:21.055
kilometer module but your

00:05:21.096 --> 00:05:22.276
run is only ten kilometers

00:05:22.295 --> 00:05:24.057
you'll burn out the the

00:05:24.257 --> 00:05:25.516
module on the receiver side

00:05:25.536 --> 00:05:26.437
of on the other side

00:05:26.476 --> 00:05:27.798
eventually because it's

00:05:27.817 --> 00:05:28.677
just too bright for it

00:05:29.696 --> 00:05:30.697
So you've got to match the

00:05:30.757 --> 00:05:33.218
length and the mode and all

00:05:33.237 --> 00:05:33.898
that type of stuff.

00:05:33.918 --> 00:05:36.620
So you can't just have, like,

00:05:36.899 --> 00:05:37.879
otherwise you'd be ordering

00:05:37.899 --> 00:05:39.800
a switch and you go, oh, in slot one,

00:05:39.860 --> 00:05:42.622
I want ten kilometers and slot two,

00:05:42.642 --> 00:05:42.923
I want four.

00:05:42.963 --> 00:05:43.622
You just don't know.

00:05:43.762 --> 00:05:45.244
So it's just to give you

00:05:45.283 --> 00:05:46.985
diversity in the same switch.

00:05:48.307 --> 00:05:50.750
anyhow that sounds that

00:05:50.769 --> 00:05:51.670
sounds sexy it sounds

00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:52.790
wonderful it's a whole

00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:54.172
thing super happy for you

00:05:54.711 --> 00:05:57.173
um you know to to to

00:05:57.213 --> 00:05:58.014
finally be able to talk

00:05:58.053 --> 00:05:59.694
about this publicly at your

00:05:59.754 --> 00:06:00.855
age after a lifetime of

00:06:00.894 --> 00:06:02.776
hiding um you know I'm just

00:06:02.896 --> 00:06:05.978
really stoked for you dude

00:06:06.038 --> 00:06:13.543
I didn't hide anything um cool um

00:06:17.156 --> 00:06:18.276
We're man down today.

00:06:18.677 --> 00:06:19.576
The sleepless man.

00:06:20.577 --> 00:06:23.379
He's probably trying to

00:06:23.418 --> 00:06:24.338
stare at the back of his

00:06:24.418 --> 00:06:25.259
eyelids at the moment.

00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:27.139
Yeah.

00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:28.740
You're never really awake

00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:29.641
and you're never really

00:06:29.701 --> 00:06:31.021
asleep at that point when

00:06:31.041 --> 00:06:32.242
you're like ten weeks in.

00:06:34.062 --> 00:06:38.865
I just remember a long tunnel.

00:06:40.024 --> 00:06:40.444
Like, you know,

00:06:40.485 --> 00:06:41.846
if you ever blacked out on

00:06:41.865 --> 00:06:43.365
a roller coaster, it's kind of like that.

00:06:43.406 --> 00:06:44.846
Your vision is just sort of narrowed.

00:06:46.928 --> 00:06:47.249
You know,

00:06:47.850 --> 00:06:49.791
I just got drunk the other day

00:06:49.891 --> 00:06:52.495
and had a bad sleep, and I was, like,

00:06:52.574 --> 00:06:53.596
wrecked the next day.

00:06:53.696 --> 00:06:55.317
You're going to have that

00:06:55.358 --> 00:06:57.879
for the next year, at least.

00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:59.161
I can only imagine what it's

00:06:59.180 --> 00:07:01.182
going to be like from now on.

00:07:01.303 --> 00:07:02.285
I think the thing is, like,

00:07:02.425 --> 00:07:03.505
you need to go back.

00:07:03.766 --> 00:07:05.047
You can go back and watch.

00:07:05.507 --> 00:07:06.629
I think I missed one game of

00:07:06.689 --> 00:07:07.228
Nodes because...

00:07:08.302 --> 00:07:10.084
The little guy was literally being born.

00:07:10.644 --> 00:07:10.764
Like,

00:07:10.803 --> 00:07:12.384
if you want to see what you've got in

00:07:12.444 --> 00:07:12.725
store,

00:07:12.764 --> 00:07:14.605
you can go back and you can see a

00:07:14.665 --> 00:07:17.086
guy trying to handle doing

00:07:17.127 --> 00:07:18.228
this at like ten o'clock

00:07:18.267 --> 00:07:20.949
his time on no sleep.

00:07:21.428 --> 00:07:24.750
Oh, yeah.

00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:27.112
We've live streamed the

00:07:27.192 --> 00:07:28.411
emotional crisis that comes

00:07:28.432 --> 00:07:29.333
when you have your first.

00:07:29.392 --> 00:07:30.213
We've done that.

00:07:30.692 --> 00:07:31.434
That's in the can.

00:07:31.454 --> 00:07:32.134
That's already done.

00:07:32.153 --> 00:07:34.495
That content has already been created now.

00:07:35.706 --> 00:07:36.367
We're going there.

00:07:36.408 --> 00:07:37.187
You can check it.

00:07:37.267 --> 00:07:39.189
You can check it and you can go, God,

00:07:39.329 --> 00:07:40.350
I don't want to be that guy.

00:07:40.449 --> 00:07:41.470
That guy's a fucking asshole.

00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:42.591
And be like, yeah,

00:07:42.690 --> 00:07:43.391
that's going to be you in a

00:07:43.451 --> 00:07:44.012
couple of weeks.

00:07:44.031 --> 00:07:44.992
I mean, sure.

00:07:45.291 --> 00:07:46.353
It's too wholesome to take

00:07:46.372 --> 00:07:47.733
it out on anybody else, but God,

00:07:47.814 --> 00:07:49.235
I can't pull out of being that guy.

00:07:49.295 --> 00:07:50.495
It's that guy's on the way.

00:07:52.716 --> 00:07:53.396
That guy's like,

00:07:53.437 --> 00:07:54.958
that guy's like Omar and the wire.

00:07:55.057 --> 00:07:55.798
Omar coming.

00:07:56.999 --> 00:07:57.639
Omar coming.

00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:00.701
Omar coming.

00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:01.440
Omar coming.

00:08:01.982 --> 00:08:02.322
It's a,

00:08:04.036 --> 00:08:05.016
That's basically how it goes.

00:08:07.598 --> 00:08:09.158
Yeah.

00:08:09.178 --> 00:08:09.459
You'll be fine.

00:08:09.478 --> 00:08:09.939
It will be fine.

00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:11.540
We're going to the beach to

00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:12.600
go and contemplate our

00:08:12.620 --> 00:08:14.380
decisions this weekend and

00:08:15.002 --> 00:08:16.242
stare off into the abyss.

00:08:16.562 --> 00:08:17.423
Oh, like a baby moon.

00:08:17.502 --> 00:08:18.142
One last time.

00:08:19.384 --> 00:08:21.324
This would be like the third baby moon,

00:08:21.345 --> 00:08:21.785
I guess.

00:08:21.925 --> 00:08:24.846
We've done like every week.

00:08:26.687 --> 00:08:27.807
Yeah, we've done a few.

00:08:27.827 --> 00:08:28.928
We literally went an hour on

00:08:28.949 --> 00:08:30.649
the train to the furthest

00:08:30.709 --> 00:08:32.951
place that was vaguely not where we live.

00:08:33.571 --> 00:08:34.672
that we could be bothered to

00:08:34.711 --> 00:08:36.212
go to that was really quick

00:08:36.253 --> 00:08:38.173
to get to got an airbnb and

00:08:38.214 --> 00:08:40.095
just ate pizza that's what

00:08:40.115 --> 00:08:41.495
we did it was like a week

00:08:41.515 --> 00:08:43.216
before the guy arrived as

00:08:43.256 --> 00:08:44.398
well we just like just got

00:08:44.418 --> 00:08:45.139
to get out of the house

00:08:45.158 --> 00:08:46.679
it's good to call it like

00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:47.279
they were like what do we

00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:48.380
do that I don't know there

00:08:48.400 --> 00:08:49.782
must be there must be pizza

00:08:49.822 --> 00:08:51.543
right something there'll be

00:08:51.562 --> 00:08:53.144
pizza or we can watch uh we

00:08:53.403 --> 00:08:54.384
could watch a film on

00:08:54.684 --> 00:08:56.826
netflix or something I can

00:08:56.846 --> 00:09:00.729
just imagine you on the train ride oh

00:09:02.028 --> 00:09:06.270
no not one last time trains

00:09:06.311 --> 00:09:07.130
aren't that trains aren't

00:09:07.150 --> 00:09:08.131
that exciting when they're

00:09:08.211 --> 00:09:09.972
like the main method of

00:09:10.013 --> 00:09:11.153
intercity travel in your

00:09:11.173 --> 00:09:13.033
country they're just like a

00:09:13.073 --> 00:09:13.953
way oh you weren't on the

00:09:13.994 --> 00:09:15.095
country train you were just

00:09:15.154 --> 00:09:16.716
like on the on the city

00:09:16.755 --> 00:09:18.336
line we were just we were

00:09:18.355 --> 00:09:19.557
just out into the country

00:09:19.657 --> 00:09:20.437
so it's like not

00:09:20.496 --> 00:09:21.457
particularly exciting train

00:09:21.477 --> 00:09:22.518
it's just like the most

00:09:22.557 --> 00:09:23.499
efficient way of getting

00:09:23.538 --> 00:09:26.019
somewhere so you guys are

00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:26.960
good so what are you doing

00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:27.759
you guys are creating a

00:09:28.061 --> 00:09:28.841
short list of names

00:09:29.898 --> 00:09:30.658
Don't pick a name, right?

00:09:30.677 --> 00:09:31.778
You're just creating a shortlist.

00:09:31.798 --> 00:09:32.339
Is that the idea?

00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:34.038
Yeah.

00:09:35.179 --> 00:09:37.020
We have a shortlist.

00:09:37.140 --> 00:09:39.061
Injective, Lunar.

00:09:39.140 --> 00:09:41.121
You know, all the classic names.

00:09:41.961 --> 00:09:42.562
Yeah.

00:09:42.602 --> 00:09:43.562
All the traditional names.

00:09:43.602 --> 00:09:44.702
They like to go old school

00:09:45.182 --> 00:09:46.943
in Castle Nullo.

00:09:48.083 --> 00:09:50.065
We'll maybe narrow it down to a few,

00:09:50.164 --> 00:09:52.666
I suppose.

00:09:52.686 --> 00:09:52.885
Props.

00:09:55.907 --> 00:09:57.268
Name a peggo, so you just like...

00:09:59.482 --> 00:10:00.384
really shout through the

00:10:00.423 --> 00:10:06.850
house actually pego's been

00:10:06.889 --> 00:10:08.071
not had a problem with pego

00:10:08.110 --> 00:10:12.735
for many months hey maybe

00:10:12.754 --> 00:10:14.417
it's just down pego is a

00:10:14.476 --> 00:10:15.778
good boy now it's been down

00:10:15.817 --> 00:10:17.419
the whole time all my all

00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:18.640
my monitoring nuked and I

00:10:18.681 --> 00:10:19.480
just don't know about it

00:10:19.981 --> 00:10:22.104
like kajira I've been jailed for months

00:10:22.923 --> 00:10:25.284
uh kujira uh I don't know

00:10:25.304 --> 00:10:26.225
I'm just running that thing

00:10:26.245 --> 00:10:27.426
into the dirt I've set

00:10:27.446 --> 00:10:29.287
those uh nodes onto

00:10:29.366 --> 00:10:33.307
autopilot so if they don't

00:10:33.327 --> 00:10:34.509
bother me I don't bother

00:10:34.548 --> 00:10:36.328
them that's yeah I'm just

00:10:36.408 --> 00:10:37.549
I'm like I'll keep running

00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:39.791
this thing at a loss just

00:10:40.630 --> 00:10:42.111
don't change anything just

00:10:42.432 --> 00:10:44.312
leave it how it is right

00:10:44.352 --> 00:10:47.453
now or I will unbind you

00:10:48.585 --> 00:10:50.307
So Rama in the chat is saying,

00:10:50.326 --> 00:10:51.106
I remember when the show

00:10:51.126 --> 00:10:52.268
was about running and

00:10:52.307 --> 00:10:53.649
talking about validating.

00:10:53.688 --> 00:10:55.110
Now it's just complaining about babies.

00:10:55.429 --> 00:10:56.490
How far we've fallen.

00:10:57.412 --> 00:10:59.352
That is market conditions right there,

00:10:59.774 --> 00:11:00.014
right?

00:11:00.173 --> 00:11:03.255
There is no validating to be

00:11:03.316 --> 00:11:04.096
done right now.

00:11:04.616 --> 00:11:06.359
There isn't a lot of validating.

00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:09.000
There's just like, I mean,

00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:10.822
you can run on a treadmill

00:11:10.881 --> 00:11:12.682
trying to pick up Cosmos shit chains,

00:11:12.743 --> 00:11:16.166
but you just exit liquidity like

00:11:17.105 --> 00:11:17.965
It's not worth worrying

00:11:17.985 --> 00:11:18.806
about it too much at the

00:11:18.846 --> 00:11:22.687
moment would be a summary of that.

00:11:24.607 --> 00:11:26.828
I've spent the last five.

00:11:26.989 --> 00:11:28.190
I got very cocky, right?

00:11:28.590 --> 00:11:31.451
I have a deadline for this

00:11:31.490 --> 00:11:32.971
fucking paper that I've been in for ages.

00:11:32.991 --> 00:11:34.493
I need to get drafted.

00:11:34.873 --> 00:11:36.634
And I thought because I've

00:11:36.653 --> 00:11:38.354
been doing transcriptions

00:11:38.374 --> 00:11:41.855
of musicians talking about music.

00:11:42.716 --> 00:11:43.857
like, fifteen years.

00:11:44.437 --> 00:11:45.239
They would be super easy to

00:11:45.259 --> 00:11:46.259
just do these transcriptions.

00:11:46.299 --> 00:11:47.520
It'd be fucking easy peasy.

00:11:48.160 --> 00:11:48.380
But, like,

00:11:48.421 --> 00:11:49.942
if you do a forty-five minute tape with,

00:11:49.982 --> 00:11:52.224
like, some band talking about a new album,

00:11:52.264 --> 00:11:53.485
right, they say, like,

00:11:53.585 --> 00:11:54.586
five minutes of good shit

00:11:54.686 --> 00:11:55.427
in forty-five minutes,

00:11:55.466 --> 00:11:56.648
and the rest of it is just, like,

00:11:56.707 --> 00:11:58.269
spinal tap level gibberish.

00:11:59.049 --> 00:11:59.730
So you don't actually have

00:11:59.769 --> 00:12:01.110
to transcribe fucking shit.

00:12:01.171 --> 00:12:03.113
Like, so in my head I was like, oh,

00:12:03.133 --> 00:12:04.474
forty-five minute tape, that'll take,

00:12:04.514 --> 00:12:07.255
like, an hour to transcribe, no worries.

00:12:07.395 --> 00:12:08.937
And so I've done, like, you know,

00:12:09.076 --> 00:12:10.437
Node Operator interviews, right,

00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:12.320
with Node Ops and Cosmos and beyond.

00:12:13.256 --> 00:12:15.197
cool but they like they say

00:12:15.278 --> 00:12:16.438
forty five minutes or

00:12:16.479 --> 00:12:17.139
thirty to forty five

00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:18.900
minutes of clever shit like

00:12:20.663 --> 00:12:21.623
and also in an academic

00:12:21.663 --> 00:12:22.264
context you have to

00:12:22.303 --> 00:12:23.284
transcribe everything

00:12:23.304 --> 00:12:23.965
because it's important to

00:12:23.985 --> 00:12:24.806
have the context and you

00:12:24.826 --> 00:12:25.645
can't like false so it's

00:12:25.666 --> 00:12:27.967
you know it looks like

00:12:28.447 --> 00:12:29.149
somebody can look at it and

00:12:29.188 --> 00:12:30.549
go like yeah this actually

00:12:30.570 --> 00:12:31.791
looks like it is a legit

00:12:31.831 --> 00:12:32.751
transcript rather than

00:12:32.792 --> 00:12:33.432
you've just picked the

00:12:33.471 --> 00:12:35.253
fucking best bits like it

00:12:35.273 --> 00:12:36.033
has to have like the

00:12:36.073 --> 00:12:37.195
coherence of a voice and

00:12:39.160 --> 00:12:40.422
to be plausible and

00:12:40.442 --> 00:12:41.543
admissible as evidence

00:12:41.602 --> 00:12:43.403
right just transcribing

00:12:43.443 --> 00:12:44.205
forty five minutes of

00:12:44.225 --> 00:12:45.125
somebody talking where you

00:12:45.145 --> 00:12:46.005
have to be very careful

00:12:46.047 --> 00:12:48.248
about getting right exactly

00:12:48.288 --> 00:12:49.349
word for word what they say

00:12:49.688 --> 00:12:51.770
takes fucking ages like I

00:12:51.811 --> 00:12:52.552
don't know I went into it

00:12:52.572 --> 00:12:54.052
so cocky and I'm just

00:12:57.034 --> 00:12:57.836
aren't you using a tool for

00:12:57.855 --> 00:12:59.797
that like are those being

00:12:59.898 --> 00:13:00.778
actually transcribed like

00:13:00.857 --> 00:13:02.198
is it is it transcribing by

00:13:02.239 --> 00:13:03.660
hand man why the fuck would

00:13:03.681 --> 00:13:04.260
you do that why don't you

00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:05.221
just have like one of the

00:13:05.381 --> 00:13:06.202
wherever you use like zoom

00:13:06.222 --> 00:13:07.062
or meet or whatever else

00:13:07.082 --> 00:13:07.783
just do a transcribe it

00:13:08.529 --> 00:13:13.033
Because that would be against ethics.

00:13:15.196 --> 00:13:16.317
It can't go into a third.

00:13:17.057 --> 00:13:19.840
You violate privacy laws if

00:13:19.899 --> 00:13:21.100
you put any of the data

00:13:21.140 --> 00:13:21.861
into a third party.

00:13:22.062 --> 00:13:23.143
So I record everything with

00:13:23.163 --> 00:13:24.745
an external recorder,

00:13:25.365 --> 00:13:27.826
transcribe and delete.

00:13:27.866 --> 00:13:30.109
So the audio is gone.

00:13:30.450 --> 00:13:32.150
I don't think it actually does that,

00:13:32.171 --> 00:13:32.851
but okay.

00:13:33.921 --> 00:13:35.962
Yeah, probably not, but you can't, well,

00:13:36.524 --> 00:13:36.903
you can't,

00:13:37.264 --> 00:13:38.125
you're not permitted to use it.

00:13:38.485 --> 00:13:40.447
And, and who's,

00:13:40.466 --> 00:13:41.187
you're not permitted to use

00:13:41.206 --> 00:13:42.528
it or who's not permitted to use it?

00:13:42.568 --> 00:13:43.469
Like when you call your bank,

00:13:43.548 --> 00:13:44.850
like they're recording that conversation,

00:13:44.910 --> 00:13:45.091
right?

00:13:46.091 --> 00:13:46.552
Yeah, sure.

00:13:46.591 --> 00:13:47.773
But they have like a legal

00:13:47.793 --> 00:13:48.774
team that have signed off

00:13:48.793 --> 00:13:50.634
that when you do, when you do research,

00:13:51.576 --> 00:13:51.635
you,

00:13:51.875 --> 00:13:53.798
the reason my ethics process took six

00:13:53.837 --> 00:13:54.698
months to sign off was

00:13:54.739 --> 00:13:55.519
because they're sensitive

00:13:55.538 --> 00:13:57.321
data and there's commercial

00:13:57.341 --> 00:13:58.402
and personal risk involved

00:13:58.422 --> 00:13:59.822
potentially at a data leak.

00:14:00.384 --> 00:14:01.764
So the

00:14:04.153 --> 00:14:05.313
The things I have to do with

00:14:05.433 --> 00:14:06.554
every piece of data that's

00:14:06.596 --> 00:14:08.798
come out of this work is really,

00:14:08.977 --> 00:14:09.639
really specific.

00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.624
I have to basically turn

00:14:13.644 --> 00:14:14.684
around the transcripts in like,

00:14:14.705 --> 00:14:15.666
twenty-four hours and then

00:14:15.725 --> 00:14:18.208
delete the source audio.

00:14:18.269 --> 00:14:19.691
That's the terms that I was

00:14:19.730 --> 00:14:20.991
able to get through the ethics board.

00:14:21.828 --> 00:14:24.530
was that I can do because

00:14:24.551 --> 00:14:25.392
that was the question was like,

00:14:25.672 --> 00:14:26.533
how are you possibly going

00:14:26.552 --> 00:14:26.993
to be able to do a

00:14:27.033 --> 00:14:27.994
transcript and get rid of

00:14:28.033 --> 00:14:29.534
the source data in a

00:14:29.554 --> 00:14:30.275
reasonable time so that

00:14:30.336 --> 00:14:31.996
it's not potentially just sat around?

00:14:32.517 --> 00:14:33.899
And I was like, well,

00:14:33.979 --> 00:14:35.259
I've been a journalist for fifteen years.

00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.621
I can transcribe things quickly.

00:14:37.662 --> 00:14:38.101
No worries.

00:14:38.201 --> 00:14:40.203
And then I've done these interviews.

00:14:41.124 --> 00:14:42.065
Transcriptions are done,

00:14:42.105 --> 00:14:43.586
but it was an absolute

00:14:43.625 --> 00:14:45.248
death march and I'm totally exhausted.

00:14:46.288 --> 00:14:47.688
Are you like, is it word for word?

00:14:47.708 --> 00:14:49.110
Are you summarizing?

00:14:50.010 --> 00:14:50.410
Word for word.

00:14:50.870 --> 00:14:53.873
Uh, well, so word for word with a slight,

00:14:54.614 --> 00:14:55.913
a slight caveat to that.

00:14:55.975 --> 00:14:57.515
So if you were transcribing

00:14:57.556 --> 00:14:58.735
somebody talking like

00:14:58.796 --> 00:14:59.736
normally for journalistic

00:14:59.777 --> 00:15:00.758
purposes and they just like,

00:15:00.857 --> 00:15:02.259
let's say have verbal tick, they go like,

00:15:02.499 --> 00:15:04.700
um, uh,

00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:05.740
you just get rid of all the votes.

00:15:05.780 --> 00:15:05.941
Right.

00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:06.341
Obviously.

00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:07.522
And, um,

00:15:08.101 --> 00:15:09.243
unless there's some reason

00:15:09.302 --> 00:15:10.583
that it would be important

00:15:10.644 --> 00:15:12.265
to the flow of the

00:15:12.306 --> 00:15:13.366
conversation or their

00:15:13.447 --> 00:15:15.067
account that you leave in,

00:15:15.148 --> 00:15:16.749
like in particular verbal tech,

00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:18.230
like the word, you know,

00:15:18.451 --> 00:15:19.311
is really common.

00:15:19.331 --> 00:15:20.572
Like loads of people just throw, you know,

00:15:20.631 --> 00:15:21.692
and you know, and you know, you know,

00:15:22.114 --> 00:15:22.533
but you,

00:15:22.614 --> 00:15:24.134
you probably delete ninety nine

00:15:24.174 --> 00:15:25.596
percent of those because

00:15:25.615 --> 00:15:27.177
they're not meaningful and not pertinent.

00:15:27.577 --> 00:15:28.578
But like if somebody maybe

00:15:28.619 --> 00:15:29.720
started a sentence with it

00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:30.419
when they're going to make

00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:31.321
a significant point,

00:15:31.721 --> 00:15:32.402
if you were doing it for

00:15:32.442 --> 00:15:33.182
journalistic reasons,

00:15:33.201 --> 00:15:33.982
you might leave that in

00:15:34.043 --> 00:15:35.144
because it reads better or

00:15:35.183 --> 00:15:36.245
it reads more authentically.

00:15:37.157 --> 00:15:39.197
Um, but yeah, in this, in this case,

00:15:39.238 --> 00:15:40.018
it's a bit different.

00:15:40.057 --> 00:15:43.220
You leave everything in except when,

00:15:45.301 --> 00:15:46.861
if they have a verbal tick

00:15:46.961 --> 00:15:48.682
that is super unusual and

00:15:48.721 --> 00:15:51.964
it really identifies like it,

00:15:52.004 --> 00:15:52.823
it's a pattern that would

00:15:52.844 --> 00:15:54.024
be identifiable if you were

00:15:54.044 --> 00:15:56.926
just scanning over some, you know,

00:15:56.966 --> 00:15:58.866
transcript of them in another scenario.

00:15:59.927 --> 00:16:00.288
Um,

00:16:01.246 --> 00:16:03.711
then it maybe is like a

00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:05.832
slightly identifying data point.

00:16:05.974 --> 00:16:08.937
So I actually ended up going

00:16:08.957 --> 00:16:11.019
through and where I could

00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:14.365
deleted verbal habits that

00:16:14.485 --> 00:16:15.586
the interviewees had.

00:16:16.788 --> 00:16:17.687
lots of it is really like

00:16:17.727 --> 00:16:18.950
when you transcribe a three

00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:19.870
thousand words of somebody

00:16:19.929 --> 00:16:22.653
talking um even if people

00:16:22.712 --> 00:16:24.114
say like something very

00:16:24.474 --> 00:16:25.755
relatively occasionally in

00:16:25.796 --> 00:16:26.716
their conversation you can

00:16:26.735 --> 00:16:27.897
guarantee it will crop up

00:16:27.937 --> 00:16:30.158
in multiple um answers to

00:16:30.198 --> 00:16:32.181
questions or you know if

00:16:32.260 --> 00:16:33.142
you are having a

00:16:33.201 --> 00:16:34.062
conversation particularly a

00:16:34.082 --> 00:16:35.083
technical problem um

00:16:35.443 --> 00:16:36.404
especially like something like Cosmos,

00:16:36.446 --> 00:16:36.605
right?

00:16:36.625 --> 00:16:37.307
So you're talking about

00:16:37.947 --> 00:16:39.269
tombstoning would be a great example,

00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:39.470
right?

00:16:39.809 --> 00:16:42.594
Validator will just go like, oh yeah, well,

00:16:42.634 --> 00:16:42.855
you know,

00:16:42.894 --> 00:16:43.796
you have an upgrade and then you

00:16:43.816 --> 00:16:45.418
have a tombstone and blah, blah, blah.

00:16:45.678 --> 00:16:46.419
And you have to obviously

00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.523
interject at that point and say, sorry,

00:16:48.562 --> 00:16:49.543
can you just clarify the

00:16:49.563 --> 00:16:50.245
term you just used?

00:16:50.546 --> 00:16:51.486
What is a tombstone?

00:16:52.427 --> 00:16:53.369
so you're quite often

00:16:53.408 --> 00:16:54.669
prompting people in that

00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:57.091
kind of way and so if they

00:16:57.152 --> 00:16:58.533
do have a verbal tick that

00:16:58.572 --> 00:17:00.235
they you know habitually do

00:17:00.274 --> 00:17:01.375
when say they're answering

00:17:01.395 --> 00:17:02.876
a question you have so many

00:17:02.897 --> 00:17:03.417
of these little

00:17:03.456 --> 00:17:05.118
interruptions that they

00:17:05.138 --> 00:17:06.338
quite often just come out I

00:17:06.358 --> 00:17:07.099
think more than they would

00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:08.580
do in everyday conversation

00:17:08.641 --> 00:17:10.282
and so yeah I had to kind

00:17:10.303 --> 00:17:11.042
of go back through and

00:17:11.103 --> 00:17:13.905
clean those before I was

00:17:13.945 --> 00:17:15.166
done because there are a

00:17:15.186 --> 00:17:16.548
couple where there are people who

00:17:18.013 --> 00:17:19.474
they do actually do it quite a bit.

00:17:19.654 --> 00:17:21.174
And when you're kind of like, you know,

00:17:21.255 --> 00:17:21.835
this is going to be an

00:17:21.855 --> 00:17:22.915
aggregated data set,

00:17:22.955 --> 00:17:24.036
but if you just flick through it,

00:17:24.076 --> 00:17:24.797
you'll just be like, well,

00:17:24.817 --> 00:17:26.896
those are obviously all the same person.

00:17:27.798 --> 00:17:27.938
Yeah.

00:17:27.958 --> 00:17:30.097
Because, like, they keep saying, like,

00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:32.398
therefore, or something.

00:17:32.538 --> 00:17:33.900
Actually, fucking loads of people say that,

00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:35.140
but the word therefore is

00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:35.880
not a verbal tick.

00:17:36.221 --> 00:17:37.221
That's a bad example.

00:17:37.300 --> 00:17:38.141
Whatever, man.

00:17:38.421 --> 00:17:40.582
You know.

00:17:40.862 --> 00:17:41.041
Yeah,

00:17:41.142 --> 00:17:42.722
nobody else in the world says therefore,

00:17:42.742 --> 00:17:44.963
but one guy said therefore all the time,

00:17:44.983 --> 00:17:45.943
and you totally know it's him.

00:17:49.413 --> 00:17:50.294
yeah there's this one guy

00:17:50.314 --> 00:17:51.634
who just said yinza all the

00:17:51.654 --> 00:17:54.076
fucking time and I was just

00:17:54.096 --> 00:17:57.818
like god delete that shit

00:17:57.878 --> 00:17:58.640
because for the record so

00:17:58.759 --> 00:17:59.660
if anybody's listening who

00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:01.260
actually fucking pinpointed

00:18:01.300 --> 00:18:02.342
cares about these things

00:18:02.481 --> 00:18:03.282
there is nobody in the

00:18:03.303 --> 00:18:04.644
tapes that said yinza I

00:18:04.663 --> 00:18:06.384
have not revealed personal

00:18:06.404 --> 00:18:07.925
or identifying data or

00:18:07.965 --> 00:18:08.826
compromise the research

00:18:08.886 --> 00:18:10.107
ethics of the study that

00:18:10.127 --> 00:18:11.729
I'm doing that was just a

00:18:11.769 --> 00:18:13.289
joke thank you just a joke

00:18:14.436 --> 00:18:14.557
Well,

00:18:14.576 --> 00:18:15.857
I did try to spread the news a little bit,

00:18:16.159 --> 00:18:16.900
so I'm not sure if any of

00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:17.780
those actually came through.

00:18:17.820 --> 00:18:18.961
I saw somebody said that

00:18:18.981 --> 00:18:21.746
they were going to do it, at least one.

00:18:21.766 --> 00:18:22.586
That might have been today.

00:18:22.646 --> 00:18:24.189
So if you got any today, that was good.

00:18:25.371 --> 00:18:26.271
So hopefully,

00:18:26.471 --> 00:18:27.313
did you get your number yet

00:18:27.373 --> 00:18:29.635
or no one out yet?

00:18:29.715 --> 00:18:30.897
Yeah, in the original collection.

00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:32.441
You get your twenty or

00:18:32.821 --> 00:18:34.682
whatever the target number

00:18:34.963 --> 00:18:36.965
that was like the minimum bound.

00:18:37.246 --> 00:18:38.307
Yeah.

00:18:38.326 --> 00:18:39.208
So you know what?

00:18:39.607 --> 00:18:40.209
To be honest,

00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:42.810
I was very down on the idea

00:18:42.830 --> 00:18:43.852
of doing audio interviews.

00:18:43.971 --> 00:18:45.574
I thought that a survey with

00:18:45.594 --> 00:18:46.694
just some hard numbers just

00:18:46.714 --> 00:18:48.777
to back up some points about upgrades,

00:18:48.817 --> 00:18:49.498
how they happen and stuff

00:18:49.518 --> 00:18:50.479
like that would be fine.

00:18:51.510 --> 00:18:53.172
And it was other people in the department,

00:18:53.271 --> 00:18:54.593
my supervisor and stuff that were like,

00:18:55.193 --> 00:18:56.855
while you have access to this community,

00:18:57.194 --> 00:18:58.695
get some audio in the can

00:18:59.636 --> 00:19:00.998
and just go through the

00:19:01.057 --> 00:19:02.097
ethics and it will be a

00:19:02.157 --> 00:19:03.199
fucking dog's dinner.

00:19:03.618 --> 00:19:04.900
I'm heavily paraphrasing.

00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:05.820
These are all very polite,

00:19:05.861 --> 00:19:06.840
very normal people who

00:19:06.881 --> 00:19:09.103
don't say things as harshly as I do.

00:19:09.482 --> 00:19:10.903
But you're not getting, I mean,

00:19:10.923 --> 00:19:11.884
you're getting a transcript

00:19:11.904 --> 00:19:12.565
in the can and then you're

00:19:12.585 --> 00:19:13.586
deleting the audio, right?

00:19:14.585 --> 00:19:15.065
Oh yeah, sure.

00:19:15.105 --> 00:19:15.806
But their point is,

00:19:16.526 --> 00:19:18.708
this is an opportunity to

00:19:18.728 --> 00:19:20.088
get something that other

00:19:20.108 --> 00:19:22.289
people don't have access to.

00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:23.070
Get it in the can.

00:19:23.211 --> 00:19:24.951
And to be fair,

00:19:24.971 --> 00:19:27.374
the one thing that they did say,

00:19:27.394 --> 00:19:28.054
which is true,

00:19:28.094 --> 00:19:29.494
and I know from years of

00:19:29.515 --> 00:19:31.215
writing about rock and roll,

00:19:31.695 --> 00:19:32.696
is that if you get somebody

00:19:32.717 --> 00:19:33.438
on the end of a phone,

00:19:34.238 --> 00:19:35.898
you always get more if you

00:19:36.038 --> 00:19:36.880
ask the right question or

00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:37.759
if you have the confidence

00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:39.080
to follow up on a good

00:19:39.121 --> 00:19:41.362
point or when somebody sort

00:19:41.402 --> 00:19:42.383
of says an aside and you

00:19:42.403 --> 00:19:43.363
say sorry can you just like

00:19:43.383 --> 00:19:44.804
elaborate on that you

00:19:44.943 --> 00:19:45.644
always get more than you

00:19:45.664 --> 00:19:47.506
bargained for and you if

00:19:47.526 --> 00:19:49.047
you speak to intelligent

00:19:49.086 --> 00:19:51.087
people you get intelligent

00:19:51.127 --> 00:19:52.429
stuff that's very different

00:19:52.449 --> 00:19:53.128
from how you would think

00:19:53.148 --> 00:19:54.690
about a thing and opens new

00:19:55.630 --> 00:19:56.671
things up like it's always

00:19:56.750 --> 00:19:57.652
it's always an interesting

00:19:57.692 --> 00:19:58.672
process interviewing in

00:19:58.711 --> 00:19:59.532
general it's just like a

00:19:59.553 --> 00:20:00.633
very fascinating thing I've

00:20:00.673 --> 00:20:01.653
always found it fascinating

00:20:01.673 --> 00:20:03.394
to do articles and stuff in that way and

00:20:04.291 --> 00:20:07.875
We do this podcast every week, right?

00:20:07.894 --> 00:20:09.776
So it was super surprising

00:20:09.796 --> 00:20:10.556
to me because we've talked

00:20:10.576 --> 00:20:11.176
to a lot of people.

00:20:11.576 --> 00:20:12.337
We obviously talked to a lot

00:20:12.357 --> 00:20:13.438
of validators informally.

00:20:13.919 --> 00:20:14.960
I used to do validator

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.101
communications for Juno and

00:20:18.021 --> 00:20:19.202
the dev communications and

00:20:19.222 --> 00:20:19.982
a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:20:20.103 --> 00:20:22.865
It's not like I haven't been

00:20:22.904 --> 00:20:24.086
around the block here,

00:20:24.125 --> 00:20:26.607
but it did surprise me how...

00:20:27.491 --> 00:20:29.753
much information came out of

00:20:29.834 --> 00:20:32.535
just the process that's

00:20:32.556 --> 00:20:33.756
just happened in terms of

00:20:34.297 --> 00:20:34.997
things that have changed my

00:20:35.037 --> 00:20:36.377
perspective on a few different things.

00:20:36.498 --> 00:20:37.538
I think it's been really interesting.

00:20:38.078 --> 00:20:38.499
Well, that's good.

00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:39.000
I'm glad.

00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:40.421
I was kind of thinking you

00:20:40.441 --> 00:20:41.642
were going to get what you expected.

00:20:42.461 --> 00:20:43.982
So I'm glad you're finding

00:20:44.963 --> 00:20:46.045
at least some data points

00:20:46.105 --> 00:20:46.964
or some things that are not

00:20:47.025 --> 00:20:48.705
as you expected.

00:20:49.926 --> 00:20:53.609
Not that you came in with a hypothesis,

00:20:53.650 --> 00:20:55.090
but you definitely came in with...

00:20:56.571 --> 00:20:57.491
some of this data in the

00:20:57.531 --> 00:20:58.053
back of your head.

00:20:58.093 --> 00:20:58.712
Expectations.

00:20:58.973 --> 00:21:00.734
And some expectations of how those things,

00:21:00.775 --> 00:21:02.576
and I think I answered that

00:21:02.596 --> 00:21:03.676
survey exactly along the

00:21:03.696 --> 00:21:04.917
lines of those expectations.

00:21:06.058 --> 00:21:07.580
But I'm glad that you found

00:21:07.701 --> 00:21:08.701
ones that were at least

00:21:08.741 --> 00:21:09.422
slightly different.

00:21:10.303 --> 00:21:10.563
Yeah,

00:21:10.623 --> 00:21:12.023
I think the survey stuff in

00:21:12.064 --> 00:21:13.285
particular kind of came out

00:21:13.846 --> 00:21:15.727
roughly how one would expect.

00:21:17.449 --> 00:21:22.051
Conversations did not.

00:21:22.873 --> 00:21:25.255
I would say generally speaking, the tenor

00:21:26.001 --> 00:21:27.221
and content of this podcast

00:21:27.301 --> 00:21:28.102
is actually pretty

00:21:28.142 --> 00:21:29.542
representative of how

00:21:29.563 --> 00:21:31.583
validators have spoken in a private,

00:21:31.722 --> 00:21:35.003
anonymous setting where

00:21:35.884 --> 00:21:37.884
there is a kind of strong, hopefully,

00:21:39.144 --> 00:21:40.005
reason to be very,

00:21:40.025 --> 00:21:43.205
very candid and frank and whatever.

00:21:43.306 --> 00:21:45.125
Because this research is

00:21:45.145 --> 00:21:46.826
going to inform potentially

00:21:47.006 --> 00:21:47.786
the future design

00:21:48.086 --> 00:21:48.807
architectures of these

00:21:48.846 --> 00:21:49.727
systems in the future, right?

00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:55.221
A lot of the content will

00:21:55.261 --> 00:21:57.503
not surprise a viewer of

00:21:57.544 --> 00:21:58.744
this podcast or a listener

00:21:58.765 --> 00:21:59.465
to this podcast.

00:22:00.926 --> 00:22:02.348
It's technical people at the

00:22:02.409 --> 00:22:03.028
end of the day,

00:22:03.108 --> 00:22:04.651
so there's no sugarcoating.

00:22:07.364 --> 00:22:09.586
but there is quite a spread

00:22:09.605 --> 00:22:10.226
there's a spread of

00:22:10.266 --> 00:22:11.586
opinions on like the

00:22:11.606 --> 00:22:12.807
maturity of where we are

00:22:13.308 --> 00:22:14.809
the maturity of the systems

00:22:14.849 --> 00:22:16.451
the social the social

00:22:16.510 --> 00:22:17.551
technical stuff the

00:22:17.592 --> 00:22:19.534
governance proof stake

00:22:19.594 --> 00:22:22.395
itself like crypto its use

00:22:22.435 --> 00:22:24.718
cases um and you know some

00:22:24.738 --> 00:22:25.698
of that stuff is actually

00:22:25.718 --> 00:22:26.679
just you know that's part

00:22:26.699 --> 00:22:27.700
of having a semi-structured

00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:28.421
conversation it's not

00:22:28.461 --> 00:22:29.842
actually material to

00:22:30.749 --> 00:22:31.769
some of the things that are

00:22:31.789 --> 00:22:32.671
on those tapes are not

00:22:32.750 --> 00:22:33.892
material to the research.

00:22:33.912 --> 00:22:38.477
They just come out in the conversation.

00:22:39.057 --> 00:22:41.839
Yeah, they don't even get cited,

00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:43.320
but they're just there.

00:22:43.361 --> 00:22:44.782
But it's still interesting

00:22:45.282 --> 00:22:46.503
when you've had to transcribe it.

00:22:46.625 --> 00:22:48.445
It goes into your brain very

00:22:48.486 --> 00:22:49.426
strongly because you've had

00:22:49.446 --> 00:22:50.729
to literally type out every

00:22:50.749 --> 00:22:52.029
single word that somebody said.

00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:52.750
So I think

00:22:53.590 --> 00:22:54.352
more than maybe when you

00:22:54.392 --> 00:22:55.313
just have a conversation

00:22:55.333 --> 00:22:56.313
with somebody you really

00:22:56.353 --> 00:22:57.493
have the time when you're

00:22:57.554 --> 00:22:58.734
going through that process

00:22:59.355 --> 00:23:00.576
to think quite hard about

00:23:00.616 --> 00:23:01.277
the points that other

00:23:01.297 --> 00:23:02.798
people have made and think

00:23:02.999 --> 00:23:05.319
oh okay well if if this if

00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:06.381
I had another conversation

00:23:06.401 --> 00:23:08.123
with that person what would

00:23:08.202 --> 00:23:09.182
I ask them about their

00:23:09.222 --> 00:23:10.344
opinion on this that we

00:23:10.384 --> 00:23:11.744
didn't quite get to there

00:23:11.825 --> 00:23:12.546
or you know whatever

00:23:12.645 --> 00:23:16.749
whatever um I think I don't

00:23:16.769 --> 00:23:17.609
know I think it's been a

00:23:17.670 --> 00:23:18.530
really it's been a

00:23:28.628 --> 00:23:31.931
I'm not quite sure how I'd say it.

00:23:31.990 --> 00:23:33.332
There's something about my

00:23:33.412 --> 00:23:36.153
general opinion on where we

00:23:36.193 --> 00:23:37.233
are in the crypto space

00:23:37.253 --> 00:23:37.974
that I think has been a

00:23:38.055 --> 00:23:39.935
little bit shifted by

00:23:39.955 --> 00:23:40.756
having done all those,

00:23:41.016 --> 00:23:41.455
by having done the

00:23:41.476 --> 00:23:42.737
interviews and transcriptions and stuff.

00:23:42.836 --> 00:23:45.219
I think my bearishness on

00:23:45.239 --> 00:23:46.558
proof of stake hasn't changed.

00:23:49.121 --> 00:23:49.461
But

00:23:51.657 --> 00:23:55.579
I have just some very,

00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:57.240
very interesting and frank

00:23:57.260 --> 00:23:59.082
conversations that have gone into that.

00:24:00.122 --> 00:24:02.423
I think reminded me of when

00:24:02.442 --> 00:24:03.644
we first started working in

00:24:03.663 --> 00:24:05.184
this space in the Cosmos ecosystem,

00:24:05.765 --> 00:24:07.685
the structure and shape of the Cosmos,

00:24:07.786 --> 00:24:08.665
of IBC,

00:24:09.366 --> 00:24:11.367
of the energy that was in the

00:24:11.387 --> 00:24:12.989
development of this ecosystem in like,

00:24:17.833 --> 00:24:20.775
Like as a reminder of like, of like, okay,

00:24:20.974 --> 00:24:21.836
a lot of that energy ended

00:24:21.875 --> 00:24:23.236
up going kind of to waste.

00:24:23.276 --> 00:24:24.156
Like the things that were

00:24:24.176 --> 00:24:25.258
built were actually not

00:24:25.298 --> 00:24:28.279
much cop in the end in a lot of cases,

00:24:28.420 --> 00:24:31.622
but you can just try again

00:24:31.662 --> 00:24:32.582
and build something better.

00:24:32.602 --> 00:24:35.284
And, and, and, and,

00:24:35.364 --> 00:24:36.223
and some people don't want

00:24:36.243 --> 00:24:37.184
to learn lessons and build

00:24:37.204 --> 00:24:38.986
something better and that's fine.

00:24:39.086 --> 00:24:39.967
That's whatever, man,

00:24:40.027 --> 00:24:40.807
they can do whatever they

00:24:40.846 --> 00:24:41.948
want to their life.

00:24:43.286 --> 00:24:43.766
But actually,

00:24:45.728 --> 00:24:47.829
there are going to be some things here,

00:24:48.951 --> 00:24:49.270
I think.

00:24:50.011 --> 00:24:51.452
And it might not be in the cosmos exactly.

00:24:51.472 --> 00:24:53.114
It might be successor to blah, blah, blah,

00:24:53.134 --> 00:24:54.055
all the things we talked about.

00:24:54.134 --> 00:24:55.395
But I don't know.

00:24:55.415 --> 00:24:56.237
I've come out of the whole

00:24:56.257 --> 00:24:56.916
thing a little bit more

00:24:56.936 --> 00:25:00.019
positive about a few things,

00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.740
certainly about the future

00:25:01.780 --> 00:25:04.202
state of development of use cases.

00:25:04.763 --> 00:25:06.525
Well,

00:25:06.545 --> 00:25:07.526
that seems like it's a totally

00:25:07.566 --> 00:25:08.926
separate topic than what

00:25:08.946 --> 00:25:10.048
you asked about in the

00:25:10.568 --> 00:25:11.689
Yeah, well, that's what I mean.

00:25:11.989 --> 00:25:13.049
It's completely orthogonal

00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:15.650
to anything that's about my work.

00:25:15.730 --> 00:25:17.330
But I think what I guess I'm

00:25:17.391 --> 00:25:18.111
saying is interesting is

00:25:18.131 --> 00:25:20.391
like done what we needed for the paper.

00:25:20.451 --> 00:25:22.112
But like on a personal level,

00:25:22.152 --> 00:25:23.652
I've come out of it as an

00:25:23.751 --> 00:25:26.573
engineer going like, yeah, actually,

00:25:26.613 --> 00:25:28.113
I don't feel all the effort

00:25:28.133 --> 00:25:30.173
we've put in is a complete waste.

00:25:30.233 --> 00:25:30.473
I think

00:25:33.260 --> 00:25:34.761
I think we still, we still not got it,

00:25:35.482 --> 00:25:35.663
but yeah.

00:25:35.682 --> 00:25:35.782
Right.

00:25:36.064 --> 00:25:36.743
Like, yeah.

00:25:36.784 --> 00:25:39.987
And I think, you know,

00:25:41.167 --> 00:25:42.489
I think people are still very focused,

00:25:43.249 --> 00:25:43.430
very,

00:25:43.450 --> 00:25:45.050
very hard on solving the wrong problems,

00:25:45.131 --> 00:25:47.272
but there's actually a lot more,

00:25:47.633 --> 00:25:48.733
I have a lot more optimism.

00:25:48.794 --> 00:25:49.454
I think at the end of this

00:25:49.474 --> 00:25:50.474
process than I did at the

00:25:50.515 --> 00:25:52.656
beginning in terms of what

00:25:52.696 --> 00:25:54.077
can be built by thoughtful

00:25:54.097 --> 00:25:56.460
people on top of what we've already done,

00:25:56.539 --> 00:25:58.221
I guess we've had to summarize.

00:25:58.241 --> 00:25:58.321
So.

00:26:00.717 --> 00:26:00.997
Nice.

00:26:01.038 --> 00:26:02.058
Speaking of the wrong solutions,

00:26:02.098 --> 00:26:06.045
before Null leaves, let's talk.

00:26:06.065 --> 00:26:08.167
Speaking of the wrong solutions.

00:26:08.327 --> 00:26:09.609
I want to hear about this

00:26:09.950 --> 00:26:12.513
injective staking rebate campaign.

00:26:13.174 --> 00:26:13.796
Did you see that?

00:26:15.788 --> 00:26:18.632
I did say it yeah so so what

00:26:18.652 --> 00:26:20.192
it is it's from the

00:26:20.212 --> 00:26:21.554
injective team I don't know

00:26:21.574 --> 00:26:22.775
who vivian is but it's from

00:26:22.815 --> 00:26:23.655
the injective team I think

00:26:23.675 --> 00:26:24.537
this is public knowledge or

00:26:24.557 --> 00:26:25.176
at least it's within the

00:26:25.196 --> 00:26:26.798
validator set but injective

00:26:26.818 --> 00:26:27.819
is launching an exciting

00:26:27.859 --> 00:26:29.221
staking rebate campaign

00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:32.423
during token which is next

00:26:32.463 --> 00:26:33.865
week I forget it's coming

00:26:33.904 --> 00:26:34.665
up right seventeenth

00:26:34.685 --> 00:26:36.547
something like that um

00:26:37.688 --> 00:26:38.628
This initiative is designed

00:26:38.669 --> 00:26:39.608
to increase staking

00:26:39.648 --> 00:26:41.069
activity on the Injective network,

00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:42.029
which I don't know.

00:26:42.070 --> 00:26:43.290
I didn't even look and see

00:26:43.330 --> 00:26:44.912
what the staking activity

00:26:44.932 --> 00:26:46.932
looks like on Injective.

00:26:47.834 --> 00:26:48.453
And we're inviting

00:26:48.493 --> 00:26:49.855
validators to sponsor

00:26:49.934 --> 00:26:52.596
commission rebates and be

00:26:52.655 --> 00:26:54.176
featured in our booth's

00:26:54.978 --> 00:26:56.137
cash grab machine.

00:26:56.157 --> 00:26:57.459
So there's an actual cash

00:26:57.499 --> 00:26:59.019
grab machine in the

00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:00.520
Injective booth at Token.

00:27:01.431 --> 00:27:02.592
The campaign will be hosted

00:27:02.632 --> 00:27:04.173
in person at the Injective booth.

00:27:04.772 --> 00:27:05.473
So why join?

00:27:05.493 --> 00:27:06.554
Boost your staking volume.

00:27:06.594 --> 00:27:08.134
Attract stakers by offering

00:27:08.174 --> 00:27:09.195
commission rebates.

00:27:09.836 --> 00:27:11.017
No end date, just commission rebates.

00:27:11.458 --> 00:27:11.857
Stand out.

00:27:11.897 --> 00:27:13.578
Gain visibility at Token by

00:27:13.638 --> 00:27:14.880
getting featured in our booth,

00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:16.881
increasing your validator's exposure,

00:27:17.481 --> 00:27:18.382
and engage the community.

00:27:18.422 --> 00:27:19.303
Demonstrate your commitment

00:27:19.343 --> 00:27:20.303
to the Injective network.

00:27:20.804 --> 00:27:21.903
Demonstrate your commitment

00:27:21.923 --> 00:27:22.944
to the Injective network

00:27:23.605 --> 00:27:24.346
and strengthen your

00:27:24.385 --> 00:27:26.186
connections with the community.

00:27:26.326 --> 00:27:27.288
If you're interested in learning more,

00:27:27.327 --> 00:27:29.548
please reach out.

00:27:29.568 --> 00:27:30.109
You going to do that?

00:27:34.213 --> 00:27:35.413
I reached out to the team to

00:27:35.433 --> 00:27:36.375
find out some more

00:27:36.434 --> 00:27:37.336
information about the

00:27:37.375 --> 00:27:39.416
specifics of this program.

00:27:41.097 --> 00:27:46.001
I haven't received a reply yet.

00:27:46.102 --> 00:27:49.804
Has there ever been a

00:27:49.824 --> 00:27:52.326
staking a rebate like this

00:27:52.605 --> 00:27:56.388
done by a team or

00:27:56.429 --> 00:27:58.770
foundation that you guys

00:27:58.790 --> 00:27:59.330
have been a part of?

00:28:00.373 --> 00:28:00.653
No,

00:28:00.712 --> 00:28:02.794
but it is quite common with

00:28:03.493 --> 00:28:04.855
institutional staking

00:28:05.575 --> 00:28:07.055
rebates on commission.

00:28:07.736 --> 00:28:08.336
Oh,

00:28:08.615 --> 00:28:09.496
meaning like if somebody's going to

00:28:09.516 --> 00:28:11.297
stake with us and you have a whale,

00:28:11.336 --> 00:28:12.457
then behind the scenes you say, hey,

00:28:12.477 --> 00:28:13.057
I'm going to send you,

00:28:13.217 --> 00:28:13.897
I'm going to send you one

00:28:13.938 --> 00:28:14.798
percent of this back.

00:28:15.637 --> 00:28:17.459
Well, people do do it, but I've never,

00:28:18.098 --> 00:28:18.878
I've never seen it

00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:21.180
instantiated by a team

00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.361
before that I can remember seeing.

00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:27.221
Are there like token twenty

00:28:27.261 --> 00:28:28.742
forty nine is a trade show, right?

00:28:29.103 --> 00:28:29.883
It's not going to be like.

00:28:30.588 --> 00:28:31.950
There's not gonna be loads of DJs there.

00:28:32.329 --> 00:28:41.074
Number one, like, and like w w who's the,

00:28:41.134 --> 00:28:41.953
what the, like,

00:28:42.013 --> 00:28:42.653
it's kind of breaks my

00:28:42.673 --> 00:28:43.194
brain a little bit.

00:28:43.214 --> 00:28:45.395
Like who, what do you, I mean, no,

00:28:45.435 --> 00:28:46.256
I think they just,

00:28:46.375 --> 00:28:47.616
I think that is just when

00:28:47.676 --> 00:28:49.758
they are announcing it.

00:28:50.317 --> 00:28:50.458
Yeah.

00:28:50.478 --> 00:28:52.019
I mean, it's kind of just like,

00:28:52.038 --> 00:28:52.618
because that's the thing.

00:28:52.638 --> 00:28:53.739
It's like an open-ended,

00:28:53.898 --> 00:28:55.640
it's an open-ended process after that.

00:28:55.700 --> 00:28:57.000
So you're committing to lose money.

00:28:57.954 --> 00:28:59.556
for a longer period of time

00:29:00.076 --> 00:29:06.039
for like what may be a couple of hundred,

00:29:07.580 --> 00:29:07.980
like, well,

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:08.682
it'd be like a couple of

00:29:08.701 --> 00:29:11.282
thousand eyeballs during, during the,

00:29:11.663 --> 00:29:13.865
the conference maybe,

00:29:14.025 --> 00:29:15.685
but like focus people that

00:29:15.705 --> 00:29:16.807
actually see your

00:29:16.886 --> 00:29:18.167
validators name and

00:29:19.008 --> 00:29:20.169
interact with it probably

00:29:20.229 --> 00:29:22.650
like sub one hundred, if that,

00:29:23.131 --> 00:29:25.051
and they're not exactly gonna be like,

00:29:25.071 --> 00:29:25.912
they might find it fun,

00:29:25.971 --> 00:29:26.992
but like your chance of

00:29:28.547 --> 00:29:29.607
business developing your way

00:29:29.627 --> 00:29:30.667
into bagging away or

00:29:30.688 --> 00:29:31.648
because they do a little

00:29:31.689 --> 00:29:33.769
cash grab thing it seems

00:29:34.009 --> 00:29:36.711
unlikely plus I know I know

00:29:36.751 --> 00:29:38.153
our space is silly but like

00:29:38.212 --> 00:29:39.232
that the people with the

00:29:39.252 --> 00:29:40.634
big pockets are probably

00:29:40.693 --> 00:29:41.515
not going to pick their

00:29:41.535 --> 00:29:43.355
validator based on that and

00:29:43.395 --> 00:29:45.757
like it's yeah right like I

00:29:45.777 --> 00:29:47.557
just yeah well I mean doing

00:29:47.578 --> 00:29:49.680
the rebate is I just hope it's not a

00:29:51.106 --> 00:29:51.866
Let's hope it's not like a

00:29:51.906 --> 00:29:52.708
thing where they make a

00:29:52.748 --> 00:29:54.208
platform and then

00:29:55.169 --> 00:29:56.949
validators compete on a

00:29:56.989 --> 00:29:58.230
rebate because then it's

00:29:58.250 --> 00:29:59.529
just going to be a race to zero,

00:29:59.549 --> 00:30:00.411
which is why we have

00:30:00.471 --> 00:30:02.090
fucking minimum commission to begin with.

00:30:02.351 --> 00:30:02.611
Yeah.

00:30:02.631 --> 00:30:03.612
Why don't you just give it a

00:30:03.632 --> 00:30:04.211
minimum commission?

00:30:05.737 --> 00:30:06.196
Yeah.

00:30:06.356 --> 00:30:07.518
Why hold this five percent

00:30:07.557 --> 00:30:09.519
if you're going to sponsor

00:30:10.038 --> 00:30:11.038
a commission rebate?

00:30:11.558 --> 00:30:12.720
Just make it zero percent.

00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:13.880
If somebody wants to run zero percent,

00:30:13.900 --> 00:30:14.661
they can run zero percent

00:30:14.681 --> 00:30:15.421
and put their name in this

00:30:15.441 --> 00:30:18.182
cash grab booth.

00:30:18.261 --> 00:30:21.143
It's oddly passive aggressive, doesn't it?

00:30:21.163 --> 00:30:22.124
I don't know if the cash

00:30:22.144 --> 00:30:23.304
grab booth is like

00:30:26.358 --> 00:30:27.701
that related I think it

00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:28.801
might just be there's a

00:30:28.821 --> 00:30:30.522
cash grab booth do you want

00:30:30.542 --> 00:30:31.723
to sponsor it and then

00:30:31.763 --> 00:30:33.085
there's this commission

00:30:33.125 --> 00:30:34.326
rebate thing on the side

00:30:35.186 --> 00:30:36.428
will be featured in our

00:30:36.468 --> 00:30:37.749
booths cath grab machine

00:30:37.769 --> 00:30:39.371
which means your logo is

00:30:39.451 --> 00:30:40.412
floating around in there

00:30:40.531 --> 00:30:41.673
with a two percent discount

00:30:41.692 --> 00:30:43.413
on it or something is it is

00:30:43.433 --> 00:30:44.915
that how it works I don't

00:30:44.935 --> 00:30:45.896
know that's what it says it

00:30:45.916 --> 00:30:46.457
says we're inviting

00:30:46.497 --> 00:30:47.557
validators to sponsor

00:30:47.577 --> 00:30:49.098
commission rebates and be

00:30:49.159 --> 00:30:51.662
featured in our cash grab machine

00:30:52.298 --> 00:30:53.818
Featured in the cash grab machine, to me,

00:30:53.919 --> 00:30:54.858
either means your logo's on

00:30:54.878 --> 00:30:55.519
the outside of it,

00:30:55.979 --> 00:30:56.859
or there's shit floating around,

00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.519
you've got to grab it,

00:30:57.819 --> 00:31:00.280
and then somebody grabs the paper,

00:31:00.300 --> 00:31:01.421
and then Bill has to get

00:31:01.441 --> 00:31:02.261
your wallet address so he

00:31:02.281 --> 00:31:03.541
can send you one percent

00:31:03.561 --> 00:31:04.481
back and calculate it for

00:31:04.501 --> 00:31:05.202
the rest of his life.

00:31:05.222 --> 00:31:05.643
I don't know.

00:31:05.663 --> 00:31:06.603
Maybe you shouldn't shit on it.

00:31:06.623 --> 00:31:08.263
I remember having some ice

00:31:08.284 --> 00:31:09.683
cream at a conference that

00:31:09.864 --> 00:31:11.904
very positively made me

00:31:11.964 --> 00:31:13.846
reflect on the Rhino brand.

00:31:14.165 --> 00:31:15.885
That was good ice cream, though.

00:31:16.145 --> 00:31:17.567
It did require me to...

00:31:18.007 --> 00:31:18.586
Didn't require me,

00:31:18.727 --> 00:31:20.407
but there's no minimum ice cream levels.

00:31:20.567 --> 00:31:23.349
I didn't break any chain laws here around.

00:31:24.250 --> 00:31:25.990
I understand having a five percent.

00:31:26.191 --> 00:31:27.291
You have to do a rebate to

00:31:27.332 --> 00:31:28.332
all your stakers in order

00:31:28.352 --> 00:31:29.932
to pay for the ice cream.

00:31:29.952 --> 00:31:31.534
It's got a Nakamoto of five.

00:31:31.614 --> 00:31:32.153
Is it five?

00:31:32.515 --> 00:31:32.914
Where are we?

00:31:33.755 --> 00:31:36.336
Thirty three percent is six vowels.

00:31:37.737 --> 00:31:38.857
Six vowels make up thirty

00:31:38.897 --> 00:31:43.940
three and twenty two out of

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.602
sixty make up sixty seven percent.

00:31:47.768 --> 00:31:48.528
And then you're going to do a, I don't,

00:31:49.308 --> 00:31:53.353
I don't like, is this really, is this,

00:31:53.633 --> 00:31:54.114
I mean,

00:31:54.253 --> 00:31:56.455
I hear the idea here is that it's

00:31:56.516 --> 00:31:57.457
designed to increase

00:31:57.517 --> 00:31:58.518
staking activity on the

00:31:58.538 --> 00:31:59.278
injective network.

00:31:59.999 --> 00:32:02.101
If, if, and I wish, I don't know exactly.

00:32:02.121 --> 00:32:02.361
I don't,

00:32:02.461 --> 00:32:03.883
I don't know what's meant by that.

00:32:04.323 --> 00:32:05.744
I don't know whether that

00:32:05.765 --> 00:32:06.846
means we'll be able to stay.

00:32:06.865 --> 00:32:06.986
Yeah.

00:32:07.346 --> 00:32:09.426
I think if we go out to

00:32:09.467 --> 00:32:10.988
twenty twenty one already

00:32:11.048 --> 00:32:12.628
solved towards twenty twenty two,

00:32:12.709 --> 00:32:13.589
whatever the fuck is,

00:32:13.690 --> 00:32:14.711
we start this podcast.

00:32:14.830 --> 00:32:16.030
We solve this problem already.

00:32:16.090 --> 00:32:16.270
Right.

00:32:16.311 --> 00:32:18.313
We said make an anti handler.

00:32:18.853 --> 00:32:20.473
If you validate it goes over

00:32:20.513 --> 00:32:21.275
whatever it is,

00:32:21.335 --> 00:32:24.175
the chain size divided by

00:32:24.797 --> 00:32:27.278
validators percentage plus three percent.

00:32:28.199 --> 00:32:29.298
The anti handler goes,

00:32:29.318 --> 00:32:31.480
your transaction to restake is rejected.

00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:33.122
Try another validator.

00:32:34.170 --> 00:32:36.191
it's like ten lines of code

00:32:36.330 --> 00:32:39.972
and no cosmos chain but

00:32:39.992 --> 00:32:40.932
this is they will listen to

00:32:40.972 --> 00:32:42.213
our podcast everybody

00:32:42.233 --> 00:32:43.513
listens to this podcast so

00:32:43.614 --> 00:32:44.615
it's not like this idea

00:32:44.654 --> 00:32:45.575
hasn't been out there for a

00:32:45.595 --> 00:32:46.556
long this has nothing to do

00:32:46.576 --> 00:32:47.516
with this has nothing to do

00:32:47.536 --> 00:32:48.616
with the vp though this has

00:32:48.656 --> 00:32:49.557
nothing to do with with

00:32:49.596 --> 00:32:51.337
that this is purely and

00:32:51.397 --> 00:32:52.617
none of these top what like

00:32:52.778 --> 00:32:54.519
why would they they're not

00:32:54.538 --> 00:32:55.200
even talking about

00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:56.319
distribution of stake

00:32:56.339 --> 00:32:57.221
they're just talking about

00:32:57.260 --> 00:32:58.320
we want more tokens bonded

00:32:58.361 --> 00:33:00.122
if they want more like

00:33:00.741 --> 00:33:01.342
Are they, though?

00:33:01.823 --> 00:33:02.803
Or do they just want people

00:33:02.903 --> 00:33:06.044
to do more staking,

00:33:06.084 --> 00:33:07.944
like stake and unstake and

00:33:08.005 --> 00:33:09.444
restake and move stake?

00:33:09.665 --> 00:33:11.246
I don't know what the goal is here.

00:33:11.266 --> 00:33:12.346
I don't know if they just

00:33:12.386 --> 00:33:13.007
want more people

00:33:13.067 --> 00:33:14.227
interacting with the chain

00:33:14.307 --> 00:33:15.327
or... This initiative is

00:33:15.367 --> 00:33:17.788
designed to increase staking activity.

00:33:18.769 --> 00:33:20.769
Activity... Right, or staking activity.

00:33:21.210 --> 00:33:21.349
Like...

00:33:21.809 --> 00:33:22.550
I assume that would be

00:33:22.611 --> 00:33:23.570
objective tell us what you

00:33:23.631 --> 00:33:25.392
mean define your term I

00:33:25.432 --> 00:33:26.792
don't understand either way

00:33:26.833 --> 00:33:28.193
I don't understand why that

00:33:28.253 --> 00:33:29.775
is a metric that the

00:33:29.835 --> 00:33:31.016
injective team would be

00:33:31.056 --> 00:33:33.557
wanting to care about like

00:33:33.576 --> 00:33:34.798
why the people or they

00:33:34.837 --> 00:33:35.558
don't there's plenty of

00:33:35.598 --> 00:33:37.059
security on the chain so

00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:39.401
but I mean I would assume I

00:33:39.421 --> 00:33:40.402
would assume they're trying

00:33:40.422 --> 00:33:43.443
to control the slide of this price right

00:33:44.284 --> 00:33:45.444
it's down from fifty

00:33:45.484 --> 00:33:46.785
something dollars down to

00:33:46.865 --> 00:33:48.586
we're at fifteen whatever

00:33:49.145 --> 00:33:50.067
I'm sorry I mean it's just

00:33:50.146 --> 00:33:51.047
it's just following the

00:33:51.086 --> 00:33:54.009
market though so sure and

00:33:54.328 --> 00:33:56.210
and yeah and and I think

00:33:56.230 --> 00:33:57.589
that they're they want to

00:33:57.710 --> 00:33:59.830
try to find bonded tokens

00:33:59.851 --> 00:34:01.271
obviously you don't have a

00:34:01.311 --> 00:34:03.232
lambo yet and the lambo is

00:34:03.272 --> 00:34:07.734
in danger your

00:34:07.775 --> 00:34:08.755
contributions to this

00:34:08.795 --> 00:34:10.096
conversation are not helpful

00:34:13.097 --> 00:34:13.996
They're probably not that

00:34:14.077 --> 00:34:15.898
incorrect though.

00:34:15.978 --> 00:34:18.818
I just, I, I just don't, it's a weird,

00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:20.440
I've never seen anything like this.

00:34:21.501 --> 00:34:25.561
And I don't know why it is the, like,

00:34:25.782 --> 00:34:27.842
is like, if I wanted to increase the,

00:34:27.963 --> 00:34:30.965
the bonded token structure of a chain and,

00:34:31.405 --> 00:34:33.465
and build confidence and say,

00:34:33.505 --> 00:34:34.146
this is something that I

00:34:34.166 --> 00:34:35.806
want to be able to hold and earn off of,

00:34:36.927 --> 00:34:38.827
is this the first lever that I pulled?

00:34:39.925 --> 00:34:40.106
Like,

00:34:40.505 --> 00:34:42.786
is a five percent going to four or

00:34:42.806 --> 00:34:43.748
three percent commission

00:34:44.467 --> 00:34:45.688
going to have any real

00:34:45.807 --> 00:34:47.608
impact on people saying,

00:34:47.768 --> 00:34:49.250
I believe in Injective or I don't,

00:34:49.949 --> 00:34:50.630
and I want to hold on to

00:34:50.650 --> 00:34:51.570
this token or I don't?

00:34:51.731 --> 00:34:54.972
I don't think that's the point.

00:34:55.092 --> 00:34:58.273
It would probably be better

00:34:58.293 --> 00:34:59.673
if that was the goal, wouldn't it?

00:34:59.733 --> 00:35:00.373
Although, again,

00:35:00.434 --> 00:35:01.114
it's a thing that nobody

00:35:01.135 --> 00:35:02.534
really does via governance

00:35:02.614 --> 00:35:03.396
because it's not like a

00:35:03.436 --> 00:35:04.976
built-in function of Cosmos SDK,

00:35:05.315 --> 00:35:06.157
so nobody can be bothered

00:35:06.177 --> 00:35:06.777
to implement it.

00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:09.210
So either way,

00:35:11.072 --> 00:35:12.393
changing who the commission

00:35:12.413 --> 00:35:13.753
goes to doesn't change the

00:35:14.673 --> 00:35:15.775
fact that the tokens are

00:35:15.795 --> 00:35:16.596
still emitted and they're

00:35:16.615 --> 00:35:17.255
going somewhere.

00:35:17.635 --> 00:35:19.396
So whether the validator

00:35:19.416 --> 00:35:21.679
gets it or the staker gets it, like,

00:35:22.478 --> 00:35:24.360
you know, there's still commission,

00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:25.460
it's still saleable, right?

00:35:25.481 --> 00:35:26.302
So I don't think it's

00:35:26.342 --> 00:35:28.842
designed to stop any kind of price slide.

00:35:29.963 --> 00:35:30.885
I think it's just a thing

00:35:30.905 --> 00:35:32.284
that they someone decided

00:35:32.304 --> 00:35:33.686
to do and they've gone yeah

00:35:34.927 --> 00:35:36.907
maybe maybe maybe to make a

00:35:37.588 --> 00:35:39.608
you know maybe it's to try

00:35:39.648 --> 00:35:42.170
and create a situation

00:35:42.210 --> 00:35:43.911
where some of the other

00:35:43.931 --> 00:35:46.112
validators can grab some

00:35:47.134 --> 00:35:49.054
more stake through offering

00:35:49.114 --> 00:35:49.914
rebates like as a

00:35:49.974 --> 00:35:51.315
competition thing I don't know

00:35:51.476 --> 00:35:52.817
be yeah I mean the first one

00:35:52.876 --> 00:35:54.039
is attract stakers by

00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:55.519
offering rebates so it

00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:57.121
tracks yeah but then it's

00:35:57.161 --> 00:35:58.744
just a if you can choose

00:35:59.023 --> 00:36:00.085
what the rebate is then

00:36:00.125 --> 00:36:01.666
it's just a race to zero

00:36:01.686 --> 00:36:02.947
again yeah and then you

00:36:02.967 --> 00:36:04.248
just get a slow transition

00:36:04.329 --> 00:36:06.472
of stakers from you know

00:36:06.512 --> 00:36:07.713
traditional staking across

00:36:07.733 --> 00:36:09.134
to the rebated staking and then

00:36:09.894 --> 00:36:10.856
know it's just a worse deal

00:36:10.876 --> 00:36:12.757
for validators again um

00:36:13.157 --> 00:36:13.757
they've already been

00:36:13.817 --> 00:36:17.199
reducing the the um

00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:18.039
commission over there

00:36:18.460 --> 00:36:20.141
steadily for a fairly uh

00:36:20.161 --> 00:36:22.121
not commission the um the

00:36:22.262 --> 00:36:23.742
inflation has been reduced

00:36:23.923 --> 00:36:27.425
steadily over time um yeah

00:36:27.445 --> 00:36:28.326
I mean there's some really

00:36:28.365 --> 00:36:31.047
weird fluctuations in the actual

00:36:33.949 --> 00:36:37.771
returns yeah like it's a

00:36:37.811 --> 00:36:38.731
little bit hard to explain

00:36:38.751 --> 00:36:40.751
but you know for example if

00:36:40.791 --> 00:36:41.932
the vp doesn't change on

00:36:41.952 --> 00:36:43.032
the chain at all and

00:36:43.072 --> 00:36:45.853
staking percentage for a

00:36:45.893 --> 00:36:47.114
validator stays the same

00:36:47.713 --> 00:36:48.733
like the token emissions

00:36:48.773 --> 00:36:50.074
will change wildly over a

00:36:50.114 --> 00:36:53.135
couple of days um by like

00:36:53.155 --> 00:36:55.295
you know twenty percent for

00:36:55.556 --> 00:36:56.836
no apparent reason so it's

00:36:56.876 --> 00:36:58.177
just it's a little bit

00:36:58.516 --> 00:36:59.577
strange when you look in

00:36:59.597 --> 00:37:01.657
those metrics but yeah I don't

00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:03.880
I don't know why they would

00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:05.300
do this other than to try

00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:06.501
and give an advantage.

00:37:06.961 --> 00:37:07.681
Well, maybe.

00:37:07.702 --> 00:37:07.782
Yeah.

00:37:07.802 --> 00:37:07.902
Maybe.

00:37:07.922 --> 00:37:11.005
I don't know when you hear,

00:37:11.025 --> 00:37:12.405
because the one thing that actually,

00:37:12.465 --> 00:37:14.806
I mean, whatever, I think if you want to,

00:37:14.827 --> 00:37:16.688
if you want to try to

00:37:17.469 --> 00:37:19.449
reduce commissions and be

00:37:19.469 --> 00:37:20.349
able to attract stakers,

00:37:20.409 --> 00:37:23.251
then change the mint, change the,

00:37:24.052 --> 00:37:25.213
remove the percentage,

00:37:25.253 --> 00:37:26.313
just like the percentage

00:37:26.353 --> 00:37:27.335
and just do a race to a bottom.

00:37:27.355 --> 00:37:27.934
If you want to do that.

00:37:29.025 --> 00:37:33.030
The one comment here that really kind of,

00:37:33.070 --> 00:37:35.152
which rubs me in the wrong way,

00:37:35.172 --> 00:37:37.193
which is demonstrate your

00:37:37.233 --> 00:37:38.875
commitment to the injective network.

00:37:41.036 --> 00:37:41.817
Demonstrate your commitment

00:37:41.836 --> 00:37:44.619
to the injective network by

00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:45.721
basically reducing,

00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:47.282
like by doing this commission.

00:37:47.681 --> 00:37:49.103
Well, I mean,

00:37:49.164 --> 00:37:50.585
that might as well say buy your...

00:37:51.518 --> 00:37:52.559
buy a commitment to the

00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:54.041
network like yeah like

00:37:54.141 --> 00:37:55.641
that's just like that that

00:37:55.702 --> 00:37:57.423
is to your point what

00:37:57.643 --> 00:37:59.045
whether whether it goes to

00:37:59.085 --> 00:37:59.885
the val or whether it goes

00:37:59.905 --> 00:38:01.967
to the staker that that

00:38:02.007 --> 00:38:03.228
percentage is being minted

00:38:03.748 --> 00:38:05.110
and and a portion that will

00:38:05.130 --> 00:38:06.090
be held a portion that will

00:38:06.110 --> 00:38:07.271
be sold right no matter

00:38:07.311 --> 00:38:08.893
what yeah like it's going

00:38:08.932 --> 00:38:10.353
to someone people have this

00:38:11.094 --> 00:38:13.635
big you know misconception

00:38:13.675 --> 00:38:16.858
that validators are like

00:38:18.197 --> 00:38:19.257
you know,

00:38:19.277 --> 00:38:21.717
the drains on the chain when it's,

00:38:21.838 --> 00:38:25.759
it's stakers is who sell the most and,

00:38:26.438 --> 00:38:26.759
you know,

00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:29.159
validators make five percent of

00:38:29.179 --> 00:38:29.599
the commission.

00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:31.561
Ninety five percent of it goes out there.

00:38:32.201 --> 00:38:33.701
So, I mean, that's the return.

00:38:33.721 --> 00:38:35.061
That's the reason that they do it.

00:38:35.242 --> 00:38:35.422
Yeah.

00:38:36.181 --> 00:38:37.224
But that idea, like,

00:38:37.304 --> 00:38:38.025
demonstrating your

00:38:38.045 --> 00:38:39.465
commitment is just

00:38:39.786 --> 00:38:41.548
fucking... That is just... Again,

00:38:41.648 --> 00:38:43.010
I don't know what they mean by that.

00:38:43.070 --> 00:38:44.391
Everybody's running hardware,

00:38:44.492 --> 00:38:45.472
and they're on pager duty

00:38:45.492 --> 00:38:47.514
twenty-four hours a day.

00:38:47.536 --> 00:38:49.737
That is nasty text.

00:38:49.797 --> 00:38:52.101
Well, yeah, it kind of sucks, doesn't it?

00:38:52.141 --> 00:38:55.344
Because, like... Look, you can...

00:38:58.199 --> 00:38:59.360
I don't know why there's

00:38:59.420 --> 00:39:02.682
such a... I don't know why

00:39:02.722 --> 00:39:03.724
for a staker it's so

00:39:03.744 --> 00:39:05.766
attractive to go from a

00:39:05.846 --> 00:39:07.226
ninety-five percent return

00:39:07.266 --> 00:39:08.788
to a ninety-six percent return.

00:39:08.967 --> 00:39:10.548
I don't know why... Because

00:39:10.568 --> 00:39:12.010
people don't fucking understand maths.

00:39:12.030 --> 00:39:14.672
I don't even know if it is.

00:39:15.563 --> 00:39:15.922
The top,

00:39:15.963 --> 00:39:17.706
the top valves on injective that

00:39:17.746 --> 00:39:18.586
have a decent amount of

00:39:18.606 --> 00:39:23.132
stakers are at seven, ten, five, ten,

00:39:23.251 --> 00:39:24.753
five, five percent.

00:39:24.773 --> 00:39:25.574
That's the first six.

00:39:26.195 --> 00:39:28.117
So out of the top five,

00:39:29.659 --> 00:39:31.541
more of them have ten, more of a double,

00:39:31.842 --> 00:39:33.423
like either ten or seven

00:39:33.463 --> 00:39:34.425
percent than they do the minimum.

00:39:36.724 --> 00:39:36.903
Right.

00:39:37.525 --> 00:39:38.626
So like, I don't know.

00:39:38.646 --> 00:39:39.927
Well, I mean, finance,

00:39:40.106 --> 00:39:41.967
finance is all self stake anyway.

00:39:43.108 --> 00:39:43.949
True.

00:39:43.989 --> 00:39:44.150
Yeah.

00:39:44.170 --> 00:39:44.929
I mean, they're Timson.

00:39:44.949 --> 00:39:45.811
I don't know.

00:39:45.831 --> 00:39:46.331
I'm sure there's,

00:39:46.431 --> 00:39:47.672
I'm sure there's individual stakers.

00:39:47.733 --> 00:39:48.393
I'm going to go get the

00:39:48.413 --> 00:39:49.614
numbers in terms of number of delegates.

00:39:50.054 --> 00:39:50.894
People pick the number.

00:39:50.994 --> 00:39:53.577
Every stake is like institutional stakers.

00:39:54.257 --> 00:39:55.639
Not everybody who's on there.

00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:55.818
Right.

00:39:56.181 --> 00:39:57.322
everybody but most of them

00:39:57.342 --> 00:39:59.302
would be through their

00:39:59.663 --> 00:40:00.623
through the institution

00:40:00.764 --> 00:40:02.085
institutional staking thing

00:40:02.125 --> 00:40:03.025
same with killing that

00:40:03.226 --> 00:40:04.686
they've got a lot of twin

00:40:04.706 --> 00:40:08.248
stakes eight percent four

00:40:08.289 --> 00:40:10.170
bolt nine point five course

00:40:10.331 --> 00:40:11.592
one seven point five I mean

00:40:11.612 --> 00:40:13.213
there's a mix of four balls

00:40:13.233 --> 00:40:14.773
still going huh still going

00:40:14.793 --> 00:40:17.175
yeah still going still

00:40:17.215 --> 00:40:18.396
rocking white whales on

00:40:18.416 --> 00:40:19.157
here like they do ten

00:40:19.197 --> 00:40:21.277
percent I my point is dora

00:40:21.297 --> 00:40:21.958
factors in there a hundred

00:40:21.978 --> 00:40:23.639
percent because they bring it all back um

00:40:26.373 --> 00:40:28.474
But based on those VP percentages,

00:40:28.496 --> 00:40:29.456
there's no rhyme or reason

00:40:29.496 --> 00:40:33.360
to how those commissions are in there,

00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:34.262
right?

00:40:34.302 --> 00:40:36.123
So it's just that

00:40:36.184 --> 00:40:37.164
demonstrate commitment is

00:40:37.186 --> 00:40:39.989
just like – that's nasty language, man.

00:40:40.009 --> 00:40:41.389
That's disgusting language if you ask me.

00:40:42.851 --> 00:40:45.414
It just sends – it doesn't help that –

00:40:45.494 --> 00:40:46.295
that perception.

00:40:46.434 --> 00:40:48.615
It's an incorrect perception.

00:40:48.635 --> 00:40:49.436
It's an incorrect way of

00:40:49.456 --> 00:40:51.077
thinking about this.

00:40:53.036 --> 00:40:53.538
The thing is,

00:40:53.557 --> 00:40:54.518
validators run the

00:40:54.557 --> 00:40:55.338
infrastructure that makes

00:40:55.378 --> 00:40:56.418
the party happen, right?

00:40:57.559 --> 00:40:59.480
We're clearly dedicated to the chain.

00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:01.280
You can have beef with a number of things,

00:41:01.340 --> 00:41:01.519
right?

00:41:01.539 --> 00:41:02.541
You can have beef with an

00:41:02.621 --> 00:41:03.661
individual validator.

00:41:03.681 --> 00:41:04.541
You can have beef with a

00:41:04.561 --> 00:41:05.541
group of validators.

00:41:06.001 --> 00:41:06.521
You can have...

00:41:07.322 --> 00:41:09.443
some idea some upset about

00:41:09.923 --> 00:41:11.206
who the validators are or

00:41:11.246 --> 00:41:12.085
some idea that maybe

00:41:12.106 --> 00:41:12.847
they're making too much

00:41:12.907 --> 00:41:15.009
money all of those things I

00:41:15.028 --> 00:41:16.230
would encourage you to

00:41:16.349 --> 00:41:17.610
become a developer build

00:41:17.630 --> 00:41:18.211
and release your own

00:41:18.231 --> 00:41:20.173
blockchain or go to

00:41:20.213 --> 00:41:21.355
governance right and the

00:41:23.072 --> 00:41:24.253
The reason these things are

00:41:24.293 --> 00:41:26.293
in place the way they are is incentives,

00:41:26.373 --> 00:41:28.896
because this is, at the end of it,

00:41:28.996 --> 00:41:30.217
a low trust system and the

00:41:30.257 --> 00:41:31.097
incentives have to be

00:41:31.157 --> 00:41:32.458
structured the way they are

00:41:32.498 --> 00:41:33.360
in order to try and make

00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:34.199
the party happen.

00:41:34.701 --> 00:41:34.860
Now,

00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.242
the incentives don't even really work

00:41:37.282 --> 00:41:37.842
that well,

00:41:38.143 --> 00:41:40.565
and they work a little bit

00:41:40.585 --> 00:41:41.746
better on higher market cap

00:41:41.766 --> 00:41:43.146
chains where validators

00:41:43.206 --> 00:41:45.528
make enough money to care,

00:41:45.869 --> 00:41:47.469
to not get arsey about the

00:41:47.489 --> 00:41:49.471
fact that we have,

00:41:49.510 --> 00:41:50.632
depending on who's on pager

00:41:50.672 --> 00:41:51.373
duty that day,

00:41:52.768 --> 00:41:53.768
Everybody who works for a

00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:55.690
validator company at some

00:41:55.731 --> 00:41:58.393
point has an important family event,

00:41:58.454 --> 00:42:01.217
life event ruined, interrupted,

00:42:01.356 --> 00:42:04.860
fucked up by random shit chains.

00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:07.262
You just hope that...

00:42:08.172 --> 00:42:11.132
when the thing totally

00:42:11.172 --> 00:42:12.914
destroys some important

00:42:12.934 --> 00:42:13.634
thing that's happening to

00:42:13.673 --> 00:42:14.634
you that it's at least one

00:42:14.653 --> 00:42:15.835
of the super high economic

00:42:15.855 --> 00:42:16.954
value ones and you're just

00:42:16.974 --> 00:42:18.476
like well this is really

00:42:18.516 --> 00:42:19.516
important to the business

00:42:19.576 --> 00:42:21.516
rather than why do you have

00:42:21.577 --> 00:42:23.516
to literally just up all

00:42:23.536 --> 00:42:24.657
this stuff oh because some

00:42:24.958 --> 00:42:26.398
chain went down but yeah

00:42:26.418 --> 00:42:27.318
you know demonstrate

00:42:27.338 --> 00:42:28.219
commitment demonstrate

00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:29.719
commitment that's that's

00:42:29.739 --> 00:42:31.280
fine you know like sacking

00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:32.119
off your anniversary or

00:42:32.139 --> 00:42:33.141
some yeah demonstrate

00:42:33.161 --> 00:42:35.061
commitment I'm kind of yeah I mean it's

00:42:38.581 --> 00:42:39.581
I know it comes off as like

00:42:39.621 --> 00:42:40.842
a super entitled validator

00:42:40.862 --> 00:42:42.141
complaining stuff but it is

00:42:42.222 --> 00:42:44.463
just like yeah I know like

00:42:44.603 --> 00:42:45.983
but it is also just like

00:42:46.043 --> 00:42:47.563
well look you know this is

00:42:47.603 --> 00:42:48.903
a low trust system when you

00:42:48.923 --> 00:42:49.804
say demonstrate commitment

00:42:49.923 --> 00:42:50.963
all you're saying is like

00:42:51.103 --> 00:42:51.804
okay you're saying the

00:42:51.824 --> 00:42:52.945
quiet bit out loud you're

00:42:52.965 --> 00:42:53.724
saying we don't trust our

00:42:53.764 --> 00:42:56.125
validator set which is

00:42:56.686 --> 00:42:58.806
fucking stupid in a low

00:42:59.106 --> 00:42:59.885
trust system because the

00:42:59.905 --> 00:43:00.365
whole point is you're

00:43:00.385 --> 00:43:01.467
supposed to say that you do

00:43:01.507 --> 00:43:02.606
trust your validator set

00:43:05.101 --> 00:43:06.541
Because that's game theory.

00:43:07.862 --> 00:43:08.161
Honestly,

00:43:08.902 --> 00:43:10.322
I don't think they mean any of that.

00:43:11.322 --> 00:43:12.063
Yeah, they probably don't.

00:43:12.402 --> 00:43:14.143
I think that's reading too much into it.

00:43:14.163 --> 00:43:15.443
I think all that happened is

00:43:15.483 --> 00:43:17.344
someone brain farted that

00:43:17.463 --> 00:43:18.525
out and now it's out there.

00:43:18.545 --> 00:43:21.804
It kind of feels like they

00:43:21.965 --> 00:43:23.405
just wanted to do it.

00:43:23.425 --> 00:43:24.246
Giving a discount.

00:43:24.326 --> 00:43:25.865
I think honestly they just

00:43:25.905 --> 00:43:27.427
spun the wheel of marketing

00:43:27.507 --> 00:43:28.567
ideas in a bear market.

00:43:28.666 --> 00:43:32.447
They just spun it and it was like rebate.

00:43:33.487 --> 00:43:33.766
Okay.

00:43:34.527 --> 00:43:35.068
That'll do it.

00:43:35.489 --> 00:43:36.849
That'll do it.

00:43:36.929 --> 00:43:39.251
That'll get everything back on track.

00:43:39.952 --> 00:43:41.634
But, you know, it's not off track.

00:43:43.574 --> 00:43:44.536
Maybe it's just trying to

00:43:44.576 --> 00:43:47.498
give the general validator

00:43:47.818 --> 00:43:49.340
access to the same sort of

00:43:51.101 --> 00:43:54.704
tools that institutional stakers get.

00:43:54.864 --> 00:43:55.625
I don't know what the

00:43:55.664 --> 00:43:56.605
motivation is behind it.

00:43:56.625 --> 00:43:58.806
It's not well communicated in that regard.

00:43:59.307 --> 00:44:00.768
They're obviously trying to do something,

00:44:00.809 --> 00:44:00.949
but

00:44:02.664 --> 00:44:03.525
I mean, there's teams, man.

00:44:03.545 --> 00:44:04.106
They do stuff.

00:44:04.146 --> 00:44:04.527
Who cares?

00:44:04.547 --> 00:44:05.648
You just move on with it.

00:44:05.907 --> 00:44:06.648
I'm not going to get bent

00:44:06.688 --> 00:44:07.469
out of shape about it.

00:44:07.489 --> 00:44:08.369
I'm not bent.

00:44:08.389 --> 00:44:10.952
I'm just saying it is a

00:44:10.992 --> 00:44:11.793
little bit of a precedent.

00:44:11.873 --> 00:44:13.255
And I'm just reading the

00:44:13.275 --> 00:44:13.835
words on the page.

00:44:13.894 --> 00:44:14.775
Demonstrate your commitment

00:44:15.157 --> 00:44:16.177
by giving this discount.

00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:18.139
so yeah man and every

00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:20.121
meaning everything meaning

00:44:20.181 --> 00:44:21.181
aside I'm just reading

00:44:21.202 --> 00:44:23.481
what's on there you're I'm

00:44:23.501 --> 00:44:24.563
not twisting in any sort of

00:44:24.603 --> 00:44:26.103
way it says demonstrate

00:44:26.123 --> 00:44:27.043
your commitment by giving

00:44:27.083 --> 00:44:28.284
this rebate that's all it

00:44:28.304 --> 00:44:30.525
says so like I'm not I'm

00:44:30.565 --> 00:44:31.704
not trying to twist into

00:44:31.724 --> 00:44:32.364
something that it doesn't

00:44:32.385 --> 00:44:33.226
say I'm just reading what

00:44:33.246 --> 00:44:35.606
the hell is written yeah I

00:44:35.666 --> 00:44:37.387
don't think it you know I

00:44:37.447 --> 00:44:38.646
think the interpretation of

00:44:38.688 --> 00:44:40.007
the words on the page are

00:44:42.016 --> 00:44:43.920
you know just you could take

00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:45.222
that in any any number of

00:44:45.242 --> 00:44:47.766
ways and demonstrate your commitment

00:44:49.666 --> 00:44:50.967
all right I understand

00:44:51.047 --> 00:44:51.887
you're in the bell set too

00:44:51.907 --> 00:44:52.748
so it's difficult to be

00:44:52.788 --> 00:44:53.827
able to just take a shit on

00:44:53.867 --> 00:44:55.527
it well but I mean it's

00:44:55.568 --> 00:44:56.668
just it's it's marketing

00:44:56.708 --> 00:44:58.568
words right like like the

00:44:58.588 --> 00:45:00.210
phrase on the wheel and put

00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:01.090
some words on there's

00:45:02.030 --> 00:45:03.030
demonstrating commitment to

00:45:03.050 --> 00:45:04.070
me is just like someone's

00:45:04.090 --> 00:45:04.931
like well you got to be

00:45:04.951 --> 00:45:07.190
committed so give a rebate

00:45:07.291 --> 00:45:08.931
like it's it reminds me

00:45:09.012 --> 00:45:09.791
right I once worked for

00:45:09.811 --> 00:45:11.391
this startup and to be fair

00:45:11.431 --> 00:45:13.012
ceo I like this story isn't

00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:15.411
whatever man like the ceo

00:45:15.431 --> 00:45:16.731
was actually very good at

00:45:16.771 --> 00:45:18.592
his job but one day got

00:45:18.632 --> 00:45:19.634
everybody into the meeting

00:45:19.693 --> 00:45:22.875
room and played um what's

00:45:22.894 --> 00:45:24.356
that american sports movie

00:45:24.436 --> 00:45:26.556
with the I think it's the

00:45:26.577 --> 00:45:27.797
longest yard the longest

00:45:27.838 --> 00:45:30.659
yard okay there's like the

00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.320
motivational speech bit in

00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:34.300
that film it was like that

00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:35.440
you know life is made up of

00:45:35.541 --> 00:45:36.581
inches you know that is it

00:45:36.601 --> 00:45:38.463
was that are you just like

00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:42.202
like like most people in

00:45:42.222 --> 00:45:44.143
this room are like the the

00:45:44.244 --> 00:45:46.226
post sales support people

00:45:46.425 --> 00:45:48.168
and the devs like we're not

00:45:48.188 --> 00:45:50.028
the audience maybe the

00:45:50.068 --> 00:45:51.190
sales team would go for

00:45:51.230 --> 00:45:52.630
this we're like not the

00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:53.791
audience to be like

00:45:54.132 --> 00:45:55.293
together we can build

00:45:55.673 --> 00:45:56.514
together we can be

00:45:56.574 --> 00:45:57.434
remembered and it's just

00:45:57.474 --> 00:45:58.615
like dude we've actually

00:45:58.635 --> 00:45:59.777
got like some quite tight

00:45:59.817 --> 00:46:00.737
deadlines can we just go

00:46:00.777 --> 00:46:01.617
back out there and just

00:46:01.637 --> 00:46:02.838
like keep cracking on make

00:46:02.858 --> 00:46:04.420
the blocks move yeah but it

00:46:04.481 --> 00:46:05.280
reminds me a little bit of

00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:06.342
that where somebody's like

00:46:06.581 --> 00:46:07.563
got this really intense

00:46:07.623 --> 00:46:08.483
energy and you're like

00:46:10.094 --> 00:46:10.893
Cool.

00:46:11.193 --> 00:46:12.954
I mean, I probably won't do that,

00:46:12.994 --> 00:46:14.916
but I will continue doing my job,

00:46:15.056 --> 00:46:16.335
which I was doing before,

00:46:16.576 --> 00:46:19.317
and I will be doing after

00:46:19.356 --> 00:46:20.097
we're done with this

00:46:20.177 --> 00:46:23.378
interruption to me doing my job.

00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:28.179
That'll be interesting.

00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:28.559
What else?

00:46:30.420 --> 00:46:31.360
You see this bass thing?

00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:33.862
What bass thing?

00:46:35.065 --> 00:46:39.686
AI paying AI for AI.

00:46:39.766 --> 00:46:41.088
It's kind of like the most

00:46:41.168 --> 00:46:44.030
ambitious crossover in movie history.

00:46:44.110 --> 00:46:50.132
It's like the shitcoin hype and AI hype.

00:46:50.632 --> 00:46:54.434
They get AIs to make USDC

00:46:54.474 --> 00:46:57.137
accounts on base and then

00:46:57.217 --> 00:46:58.498
pay each other for the

00:46:58.637 --> 00:47:00.539
outputs of shitty LLMs.

00:47:02.235 --> 00:47:04.797
So the AI is just circle

00:47:04.838 --> 00:47:06.298
jerking each other off now

00:47:06.838 --> 00:47:09.641
with fucking USDC.

00:47:10.101 --> 00:47:10.661
It's like,

00:47:11.981 --> 00:47:13.302
this is what we've been building,

00:47:13.342 --> 00:47:13.623
isn't it?

00:47:13.663 --> 00:47:14.963
This was the point.

00:47:15.003 --> 00:47:16.684
This was the point we wanted to get to.

00:47:16.704 --> 00:47:17.666
This was the end game.

00:47:17.686 --> 00:47:19.407
Yeah, this was the end game.

00:47:19.447 --> 00:47:19.827
We're there.

00:47:19.847 --> 00:47:20.387
We've arrived.

00:47:21.027 --> 00:47:21.829
We saw it.

00:47:21.869 --> 00:47:22.068
Like,

00:47:23.021 --> 00:47:24.581
I don't know.

00:47:24.681 --> 00:47:25.981
I both hate this and I love

00:47:26.061 --> 00:47:27.123
it and I find it really

00:47:27.182 --> 00:47:27.943
funny and I'm like,

00:47:27.963 --> 00:47:28.983
it's actually kind of

00:47:29.043 --> 00:47:30.903
vaguely interesting.

00:47:30.923 --> 00:47:33.804
I like the idea of being like, okay,

00:47:33.885 --> 00:47:36.186
AI model, go and book me a train ticket.

00:47:37.146 --> 00:47:38.786
It requires the AI to go and

00:47:38.806 --> 00:47:39.367
make a payment.

00:47:39.688 --> 00:47:39.827
Now,

00:47:40.168 --> 00:47:43.108
I'm not a fucking... I'm not going to

00:47:43.148 --> 00:47:45.110
make an AI do that for me because...

00:47:46.530 --> 00:47:47.773
I don't mind spending two

00:47:47.813 --> 00:47:49.277
minutes to go and book my

00:47:49.358 --> 00:47:50.360
actual train ticket and

00:47:50.380 --> 00:47:51.342
check it's correct.

00:47:51.382 --> 00:47:52.766
And I don't trust the AI to

00:47:52.806 --> 00:47:53.967
not fuck it up.

00:47:54.048 --> 00:47:54.510
But,

00:47:55.623 --> 00:47:56.623
if you're lazy,

00:47:57.204 --> 00:47:58.523
you soon be able to do that

00:47:58.603 --> 00:47:59.664
and then get to the station

00:47:59.704 --> 00:48:01.085
and find the AI has booked

00:48:01.105 --> 00:48:03.246
you a fucking bus or a

00:48:03.306 --> 00:48:04.027
coach or something.

00:48:04.047 --> 00:48:04.666
And you're going to be on it

00:48:04.686 --> 00:48:05.507
for twenty four hours

00:48:05.527 --> 00:48:06.487
instead of taking the one

00:48:06.507 --> 00:48:07.967
hour train to your destination.

00:48:08.469 --> 00:48:09.108
And, you know,

00:48:09.128 --> 00:48:10.750
they'll be like fucking smashed it.

00:48:10.789 --> 00:48:12.349
Coinbase absolutely love it.

00:48:13.931 --> 00:48:14.931
So I'm looking forward to that.

00:48:14.951 --> 00:48:16.052
It's going to be really funny.

00:48:16.092 --> 00:48:17.572
It's like a whole other axis

00:48:17.632 --> 00:48:18.532
of fuck ups that could

00:48:18.552 --> 00:48:19.713
happen in everyday life.

00:48:19.773 --> 00:48:20.213
It's going to be.

00:48:21.253 --> 00:48:22.094
Oh, it's gonna be lovely.

00:48:22.114 --> 00:48:23.394
I'm looking forward to it already.

00:48:26.192 --> 00:48:26.831
But it'll learn.

00:48:27.253 --> 00:48:27.713
It'll be better.

00:48:27.753 --> 00:48:28.293
It'll learn.

00:48:28.413 --> 00:48:29.074
We'll get there.

00:48:30.414 --> 00:48:31.034
We'll get there.

00:48:31.574 --> 00:48:33.835
We've got a lot of stuff.

00:48:33.876 --> 00:48:34.737
Do you know what?

00:48:34.777 --> 00:48:36.617
We've got this point where

00:48:36.697 --> 00:48:37.878
we've done a great job at

00:48:37.898 --> 00:48:38.938
fucking up the economy.

00:48:38.978 --> 00:48:40.239
So what we should do is

00:48:40.579 --> 00:48:44.922
automate these AIs to take

00:48:44.943 --> 00:48:47.083
what we've done and make it

00:48:47.244 --> 00:48:50.405
more aggressively and rapidly fucked up.

00:48:50.445 --> 00:48:51.085
That's what we want to do.

00:48:51.126 --> 00:48:52.246
It's going to be magic.

00:48:52.507 --> 00:48:52.786
Love it.

00:48:54.898 --> 00:48:56.298
Yeah.

00:48:56.358 --> 00:48:59.059
So yeah, I'm kind of,

00:48:59.099 --> 00:49:00.041
but is it possible to be

00:49:00.081 --> 00:49:01.320
both bullish and bearish at

00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:01.922
the same time?

00:49:01.961 --> 00:49:02.842
Like love and hate it.

00:49:02.902 --> 00:49:04.682
This is like the ultimate salt and sweet.

00:49:04.762 --> 00:49:05.382
This is like,

00:49:05.682 --> 00:49:06.543
this is like earlier this

00:49:06.563 --> 00:49:07.443
week when somebody forced

00:49:07.483 --> 00:49:09.125
me to eat via peer pressure,

00:49:09.204 --> 00:49:10.766
eat some fucking pineapple pizza.

00:49:11.025 --> 00:49:11.365
What's it called?

00:49:11.385 --> 00:49:12.047
Hawaiian pizza.

00:49:12.067 --> 00:49:13.726
And I was just like, I hate it.

00:49:14.208 --> 00:49:15.387
I hate it, but it's still pizza,

00:49:15.427 --> 00:49:16.048
but I hate it.

00:49:16.708 --> 00:49:18.230
And I love pizza, but I hate this.

00:49:18.809 --> 00:49:19.990
That's how I feel about this article.

00:49:20.710 --> 00:49:23.612
I'm like, I love pizza, but I hate this,

00:49:23.972 --> 00:49:24.672
but I love pizza.

00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:30.541
ai's ai financial concierge

00:49:30.561 --> 00:49:31.521
personal ai assistance that

00:49:31.541 --> 00:49:32.222
not only recommends

00:49:32.242 --> 00:49:33.342
services but also handles

00:49:33.422 --> 00:49:34.422
payments booking and

00:49:34.443 --> 00:49:35.684
planning it's do you see

00:49:35.704 --> 00:49:36.764
what I mean it's like

00:49:36.784 --> 00:49:37.585
you're sort of like your

00:49:37.605 --> 00:49:39.045
brain is like yeah I can

00:49:39.065 --> 00:49:41.126
kind of sort of see it but

00:49:41.447 --> 00:49:45.889
but what the fuck that's yeah um

00:49:47.215 --> 00:49:48.036
On the other way, they're just like,

00:49:48.077 --> 00:49:48.396
oh yeah,

00:49:48.436 --> 00:49:50.498
soon you'll have checkout with AI.

00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:52.079
And hey, here's the API docs.

00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:55.864
And you're like, oh, steady down.

00:49:55.963 --> 00:49:56.384
Steady.

00:49:56.644 --> 00:49:57.525
Pipe down, piglet,

00:49:57.625 --> 00:49:58.907
as they sometimes say in

00:49:59.007 --> 00:50:00.608
the north of England.

00:50:01.268 --> 00:50:03.931
Oh, the agent needs a wallet.

00:50:04.251 --> 00:50:05.432
Oh, because it pulls out of that wallet.

00:50:05.833 --> 00:50:07.554
And as luck would have it, you, sir,

00:50:07.574 --> 00:50:09.876
but the wallet can be on base.

00:50:09.956 --> 00:50:10.896
Is it on Coinbase?

00:50:11.358 --> 00:50:12.219
And use USDC.

00:50:12.259 --> 00:50:13.039
Where are the...

00:50:14.085 --> 00:50:14.565
You know that at the

00:50:14.605 --> 00:50:15.905
beginning of Layer Cake,

00:50:15.985 --> 00:50:17.186
when they have the hippies

00:50:17.485 --> 00:50:20.226
talking in prison to the drug dealers, no,

00:50:20.246 --> 00:50:21.007
the bank robbers,

00:50:21.447 --> 00:50:22.487
and the bank robbers are like,

00:50:22.527 --> 00:50:23.108
wait a minute,

00:50:23.327 --> 00:50:24.748
we're in the wrong fucking business,

00:50:24.789 --> 00:50:25.068
mate.

00:50:26.449 --> 00:50:27.349
That's this moment.

00:50:28.309 --> 00:50:29.210
It's like, wait a minute,

00:50:29.231 --> 00:50:30.371
if you launch a shit chain

00:50:30.411 --> 00:50:31.670
and put USDC on it,

00:50:31.690 --> 00:50:34.231
you can make not millions, but billions.

00:50:37.032 --> 00:50:37.594
That's pretty cool.

00:50:38.434 --> 00:50:38.773
Yeah.

00:50:40.068 --> 00:50:43.090
It's kind of cool, but I hate it.

00:50:43.351 --> 00:50:44.692
Effortlessly handle millions

00:50:44.731 --> 00:50:45.411
of transactions.

00:50:45.552 --> 00:50:46.373
Could you imagine?

00:50:48.494 --> 00:50:49.394
Oh, dude, it's bad, isn't it?

00:50:52.617 --> 00:50:53.516
But hey, yeah,

00:50:53.838 --> 00:50:55.119
it's kind of a cool news story.

00:50:55.159 --> 00:50:57.199
I mean, it's kind of dumb, but whatever,

00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:57.400
man.

00:50:59.193 --> 00:51:01.454
You can have the AI just go

00:51:03.355 --> 00:51:05.155
and create much more, many,

00:51:05.195 --> 00:51:06.936
many more transactions for

00:51:07.237 --> 00:51:11.619
chain analysis to index to, you know,

00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.621
learn more about your

00:51:14.641 --> 00:51:16.021
whatever your kinky spending was,

00:51:17.143 --> 00:51:18.423
the network boxes you want.

00:51:19.583 --> 00:51:20.644
You can just automate that shit.

00:51:22.630 --> 00:51:22.811
Yeah,

00:51:23.210 --> 00:51:24.490
you can have an AI go and figure out

00:51:24.510 --> 00:51:25.351
your whole SPF issue.

00:51:25.851 --> 00:51:26.331
Exactly.

00:51:27.172 --> 00:51:28.152
It's a brave new world.

00:51:28.612 --> 00:51:29.773
Have the AI say, dude,

00:51:29.793 --> 00:51:30.753
that has nothing to do with

00:51:30.793 --> 00:51:32.052
full or half duplex.

00:51:32.072 --> 00:51:33.333
That's not how it works.

00:51:37.275 --> 00:51:38.355
Good to see people still get

00:51:38.454 --> 00:51:42.695
suckered into airdrops, though.

00:51:42.775 --> 00:51:44.597
I feel like we're having one

00:51:44.637 --> 00:51:45.416
conversation and none of

00:51:45.436 --> 00:51:45.996
this is somewhere else.

00:51:46.396 --> 00:51:47.077
What airdrop?

00:51:47.097 --> 00:51:49.538
I was just looking around on

00:51:49.557 --> 00:51:49.918
this fucking...

00:51:52.693 --> 00:51:55.875
Maybe that's the AI wallet that we need.

00:51:55.894 --> 00:51:57.356
Just fuck your airdrop harvesting.

00:51:57.916 --> 00:51:58.896
To be honest, actually,

00:51:58.996 --> 00:52:01.619
an AI harvesting shitty

00:52:01.759 --> 00:52:02.498
airdrops and just

00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:03.980
immediately dumping them,

00:52:04.541 --> 00:52:05.601
that would be fucking,

00:52:05.721 --> 00:52:06.621
that would be good.

00:52:06.981 --> 00:52:07.983
I would be into that.

00:52:08.463 --> 00:52:09.583
Build a little model around it.

00:52:12.876 --> 00:52:14.016
I still get the odd fucking

00:52:14.097 --> 00:52:16.097
email where there's just like, you know,

00:52:16.117 --> 00:52:17.438
when people like go through

00:52:17.498 --> 00:52:18.918
GitHub repos and they're like, Oh,

00:52:18.938 --> 00:52:20.900
you've contributed to some bullshit.

00:52:20.980 --> 00:52:23.681
And so you are eligible for this bullshit.

00:52:23.742 --> 00:52:24.422
And I'm just like,

00:52:25.952 --> 00:52:27.393
I'm not what I'm not going

00:52:27.432 --> 00:52:29.074
to claim for like you know

00:52:29.094 --> 00:52:29.833
he's like you're eligible

00:52:29.853 --> 00:52:31.235
for four shit coins on the

00:52:31.275 --> 00:52:32.695
new shit coin chain you're

00:52:32.715 --> 00:52:33.695
like okay thank you but

00:52:33.715 --> 00:52:36.817
thanks like yeah the tax

00:52:36.856 --> 00:52:38.538
burden on that is the the

00:52:38.597 --> 00:52:40.358
tax hassle on the like to

00:52:40.398 --> 00:52:41.440
do the paperwork ain't

00:52:41.500 --> 00:52:43.159
worth the four shit coins

00:52:43.179 --> 00:52:44.760
whatever it is cool but

00:52:44.780 --> 00:52:46.722
thank you but if an ai

00:52:46.742 --> 00:52:49.903
could do it I don't have to

00:52:49.923 --> 00:52:52.585
do shit that's different that's different

00:52:54.277 --> 00:52:54.538
So anyway,

00:52:54.577 --> 00:52:55.818
when are we starting this startup?

00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:00.880
AI airdrops one.

00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:02.862
The branding's already nearly done.

00:53:02.902 --> 00:53:03.942
What's the tax implication

00:53:04.021 --> 00:53:07.244
on providing injective chain rebates?

00:53:09.085 --> 00:53:10.224
Yeah, good question.

00:53:10.865 --> 00:53:12.186
Good fucking point.

00:53:12.385 --> 00:53:14.007
That's revenue you'd have to pull in,

00:53:14.027 --> 00:53:15.086
and then you literally

00:53:15.186 --> 00:53:16.268
would have to treat them as a vendor.

00:53:17.681 --> 00:53:18.603
depends on how you do your

00:53:18.643 --> 00:53:19.762
tax depends on how you do

00:53:19.782 --> 00:53:20.384
your tax depends on how you

00:53:20.403 --> 00:53:21.224
do your tax it took fifty

00:53:21.244 --> 00:53:21.945
three minutes I'm gonna it

00:53:21.965 --> 00:53:22.485
took fifty three minutes

00:53:22.505 --> 00:53:23.025
I'm gonna it took fifty

00:53:23.045 --> 00:53:23.626
three minutes I'm gonna

00:53:23.646 --> 00:53:24.246
bounce guys bounce guys

00:53:24.266 --> 00:53:24.887
bounce guys that's texas

00:53:24.907 --> 00:53:25.467
that's texas that's texas

00:53:25.487 --> 00:53:26.106
oh yeah I gotta go I got it

00:53:26.126 --> 00:53:27.288
to do oh yeah I gotta go I

00:53:27.307 --> 00:53:28.048
got it to do oh yeah I

00:53:28.068 --> 00:53:28.588
gotta go I got it to do

00:53:28.608 --> 00:53:29.088
I'll uh talk to you guys

00:53:29.108 --> 00:53:29.650
later I'll uh talk to you

00:53:29.670 --> 00:53:30.409
guys later I'll uh talk to

00:53:30.429 --> 00:53:30.931
you guys later all right

00:53:30.951 --> 00:53:31.690
peace peace all right peace

00:53:31.710 --> 00:53:32.331
peace all right peace peace

00:53:32.351 --> 00:53:33.311
it's kind of like uh the

00:53:33.331 --> 00:53:34.052
genesis album it's kind of

00:53:34.072 --> 00:53:34.572
like uh the genesis album

00:53:34.592 --> 00:53:35.954
it's kind of like uh the

00:53:36.014 --> 00:53:37.114
genesis album and then

00:53:37.135 --> 00:53:37.875
there were three and then

00:53:37.894 --> 00:53:40.076
there were three and then

00:53:40.096 --> 00:53:40.717
there were three I know

00:53:40.757 --> 00:53:41.898
next week it's going to be

00:53:41.918 --> 00:53:42.538
it's I know next week it's

00:53:42.557 --> 00:53:43.097
going to be it's I know

00:53:43.117 --> 00:53:44.059
next week it's going to be

00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:45.059
it's going to be tight next

00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:45.900
couple weeks because I

00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:46.780
going to be tight next

00:53:47.822 --> 00:53:48.722
still making their mark in

00:53:48.742 --> 00:53:49.844
this world is going to make

00:53:49.903 --> 00:53:51.925
some some some challenging

00:53:52.065 --> 00:53:54.047
uh some challenging

00:53:54.068 --> 00:53:56.128
attendance situations hey

00:53:56.208 --> 00:53:57.690
all I'm saying I'm pretty

00:53:57.710 --> 00:53:59.192
sure I missed one that's

00:53:59.251 --> 00:54:05.438
all I'm saying like uh

00:54:05.478 --> 00:54:06.318
people people doubt my

00:54:06.338 --> 00:54:07.318
commitment to the cause

00:54:07.458 --> 00:54:09.641
like the injective aren't

00:54:09.661 --> 00:54:10.681
sending me a letter saying

00:54:10.722 --> 00:54:11.682
without your commitment to

00:54:11.722 --> 00:54:13.304
the cosmos like I may not be

00:54:14.351 --> 00:54:15.934
I may not be the most

00:54:15.974 --> 00:54:16.994
relentlessly positive

00:54:17.054 --> 00:54:18.335
member of this ecosystem,

00:54:18.556 --> 00:54:19.818
but I am a consistent,

00:54:20.518 --> 00:54:22.219
I do consistently fucking tech.

00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:23.061
Do you know what actually though?

00:54:23.362 --> 00:54:23.521
Um,

00:54:24.682 --> 00:54:26.244
the consistently turning up to lose

00:54:26.304 --> 00:54:28.266
money at the moment is, uh,

00:54:28.286 --> 00:54:29.788
I think we're gonna have to

00:54:29.827 --> 00:54:31.911
replatform again or,

00:54:33.512 --> 00:54:34.813
or maybe just finally shoot

00:54:34.833 --> 00:54:35.775
the dog on Juno.

00:54:37.565 --> 00:54:38.666
Oh yeah, shoot the Duncan Juno.

00:54:39.106 --> 00:54:42.849
Because it's like, I mean,

00:54:42.889 --> 00:54:44.050
the actual bare metal for

00:54:44.371 --> 00:54:45.632
the Cosmos chains is still running,

00:54:45.791 --> 00:54:46.333
ain't so much.

00:54:46.393 --> 00:54:48.233
But, you know,

00:54:48.313 --> 00:54:51.215
the external signer rig and everything,

00:54:51.255 --> 00:54:51.817
because it's across

00:54:51.876 --> 00:54:52.697
multiple vendors and

00:54:52.717 --> 00:54:53.858
they're not necessarily cheap,

00:54:53.958 --> 00:54:54.639
and the hardware is not

00:54:54.659 --> 00:54:55.378
necessarily cheap.

00:54:55.398 --> 00:54:57.681
I mean,

00:54:57.920 --> 00:54:58.961
we're essentially paying a thousand

00:54:58.981 --> 00:55:00.103
dollars a month for the

00:55:00.643 --> 00:55:01.684
external signers and the

00:55:01.704 --> 00:55:03.806
redundancy for like

00:55:04.842 --> 00:55:05.563
What, we're down to,

00:55:05.903 --> 00:55:07.286
from a peak of whatever, seven?

00:55:07.326 --> 00:55:09.929
We're down to like two Cosmos chains now?

00:55:10.048 --> 00:55:10.889
Yeah, get rid of that shit.

00:55:11.431 --> 00:55:14.195
It's just like, I don't know.

00:55:14.215 --> 00:55:15.596
I think it might be time to

00:55:15.615 --> 00:55:16.838
take Stargaze and Juno out

00:55:16.858 --> 00:55:17.478
behind the barn.

00:55:19.561 --> 00:55:20.601
Yeah, I mean,

00:55:20.742 --> 00:55:21.882
it's not looking great right now.

00:55:21.902 --> 00:55:23.483
No.

00:55:24.463 --> 00:55:26.085
Which does segue into a new story.

00:55:28.025 --> 00:55:28.346
It does.

00:55:28.365 --> 00:55:29.545
As Atom's price hits a

00:55:29.666 --> 00:55:32.086
four-year low at three dollars eighty,

00:55:32.347 --> 00:55:33.807
the community decides now

00:55:33.827 --> 00:55:34.909
would be a good time to

00:55:34.949 --> 00:55:35.989
start up a discussion

00:55:36.088 --> 00:55:37.349
around an Atom and Osmo

00:55:37.409 --> 00:55:38.610
merger acquisition,

00:55:39.250 --> 00:55:40.751
sparking joy amongst the

00:55:40.771 --> 00:55:42.112
community with another

00:55:42.152 --> 00:55:44.873
delightful governance discussion ensuing.

00:55:47.126 --> 00:55:48.652
Though neither of us validate the hub,

00:55:48.713 --> 00:55:48.974
right?

00:55:49.074 --> 00:55:49.275
No.

00:55:50.673 --> 00:55:53.456
I actually was aware of this

00:55:53.496 --> 00:55:54.817
as the first I've, I've heard of it.

00:55:54.978 --> 00:55:56.139
And, um, I remember,

00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:57.440
but I remember this

00:55:57.460 --> 00:55:59.360
discussion in like a while ago.

00:55:59.380 --> 00:55:59.541
Yeah.

00:56:00.242 --> 00:56:00.681
Yeah.

00:56:00.882 --> 00:56:00.963
Yeah.

00:56:00.983 --> 00:56:02.123
It was one of the, it was the, you know,

00:56:02.143 --> 00:56:03.724
the whole Osmo is the real hub thing.

00:56:03.784 --> 00:56:04.005
Right.

00:56:04.525 --> 00:56:06.728
But now, um, now Cosmos has got, um,

00:56:07.487 --> 00:56:09.650
now the hub's got Cosmos and they figure,

00:56:09.670 --> 00:56:11.150
well, we're basically feature compatible.

00:56:11.871 --> 00:56:15.394
So let's, let's fuck Osmosis up by, um,

00:56:16.295 --> 00:56:17.677
introducing the overhead device.

00:56:17.717 --> 00:56:18.117
Yes.

00:56:18.197 --> 00:56:18.898
Right.

00:56:18.998 --> 00:56:19.077
Yeah.

00:56:19.744 --> 00:56:20.284
Yeah, basically.

00:56:20.704 --> 00:56:23.047
So now the Cosmos ecosystem

00:56:23.067 --> 00:56:23.666
is going to be basically

00:56:23.686 --> 00:56:25.168
the hub with smart

00:56:25.208 --> 00:56:25.969
contracts built on top.

00:56:26.630 --> 00:56:27.250
Yeah.

00:56:27.309 --> 00:56:27.971
For every other piece.

00:56:28.331 --> 00:56:30.333
I mean, just kind of like that meme about,

00:56:30.393 --> 00:56:30.612
like,

00:56:30.733 --> 00:56:33.655
what if every app chain just ran on

00:56:33.675 --> 00:56:34.735
the Cosmos hub as a smart

00:56:34.775 --> 00:56:36.157
contract and we just gave

00:56:36.197 --> 00:56:37.378
up on the Cosmos ecosystem?

00:56:37.478 --> 00:56:38.980
Except, like...

00:56:40.018 --> 00:56:40.838
Not a joke.

00:56:40.898 --> 00:56:41.599
That's kind of what they're

00:56:41.619 --> 00:56:45.782
trying to do here.

00:56:45.922 --> 00:56:46.262
Yeah.

00:56:46.362 --> 00:56:47.384
I didn't see Adam hit that low.

00:56:47.403 --> 00:56:48.324
I was just actually looking

00:56:48.344 --> 00:56:48.965
because it seemed... I

00:56:49.684 --> 00:56:50.186
didn't think it was

00:56:50.246 --> 00:56:51.327
underneath four dollars.

00:56:51.347 --> 00:56:55.130
That's pretty crazy.

00:56:55.170 --> 00:56:56.530
But I guess it was.

00:56:56.811 --> 00:56:56.990
Oh,

00:56:57.090 --> 00:56:59.032
I see a little dip back a couple nights

00:56:59.052 --> 00:56:59.512
ago.

00:56:59.532 --> 00:57:01.954
Yeah, three ninety-three, I see.

00:57:02.775 --> 00:57:03.215
Wow.

00:57:04.577 --> 00:57:06.737
Is that the discussion or

00:57:06.777 --> 00:57:08.559
the vote or which part of it?

00:57:09.974 --> 00:57:11.155
I think that was just more in general.

00:57:11.335 --> 00:57:11.755
It's over.

00:57:11.775 --> 00:57:12.835
Oh, right.

00:57:12.916 --> 00:57:13.775
It's over.

00:57:13.876 --> 00:57:14.536
Is it over?

00:57:15.036 --> 00:57:18.338
Well, nothing's forever, dude.

00:57:18.358 --> 00:57:22.661
You know?

00:57:23.621 --> 00:57:25.202
It's fine.

00:57:25.242 --> 00:57:25.422
Oh, man.

00:57:25.463 --> 00:57:26.282
Like... Maybe they should

00:57:26.322 --> 00:57:28.284
start sponsoring Validator rebates.

00:57:28.304 --> 00:57:30.144
It's good to show back on the road.

00:57:30.865 --> 00:57:31.065
I mean...

00:57:32.014 --> 00:57:32.434
Do you know what?

00:57:32.454 --> 00:57:32.813
It's sad.

00:57:32.833 --> 00:57:34.333
Like last year, obviously I was like,

00:57:34.355 --> 00:57:35.594
I'm not going to Cosmoverse

00:57:35.655 --> 00:57:37.454
because even though it was kind of doable,

00:57:38.135 --> 00:57:39.496
um, because small human,

00:57:39.596 --> 00:57:40.516
it just wasn't possible.

00:57:41.056 --> 00:57:42.516
But I was like, cause it was in that,

00:57:42.536 --> 00:57:43.735
I think it was in Istanbul, right?

00:57:44.197 --> 00:57:47.876
Um, this last year or was that Dubai?

00:57:47.896 --> 00:57:49.117
Last year was Cosmoverse in

00:57:49.157 --> 00:57:50.557
Istanbul or did I fucking

00:57:50.577 --> 00:57:51.137
hallucinate that?

00:57:51.157 --> 00:57:51.898
I don't know.

00:57:51.918 --> 00:57:52.577
I can never remember where

00:57:52.597 --> 00:57:53.038
they moved around.

00:57:53.418 --> 00:57:54.739
Um, a couple of years ago,

00:57:54.759 --> 00:57:55.518
it was in South America a

00:57:55.539 --> 00:57:55.978
couple of years ago.

00:57:56.018 --> 00:57:56.159
Yeah.

00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:56.938
Yeah.

00:57:56.958 --> 00:57:59.179
It was the, it was in Medellin, wasn't it?

00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:00.260
That was the one I didn't go to.

00:58:01.025 --> 00:58:02.025
But then I think last year

00:58:02.045 --> 00:58:03.585
it was in Istanbul and I was like,

00:58:03.806 --> 00:58:05.286
that sounds actually like a good crack.

00:58:05.306 --> 00:58:05.447
I mean,

00:58:05.467 --> 00:58:08.128
I know like Turkey got its problems

00:58:08.148 --> 00:58:08.608
at the moment,

00:58:09.989 --> 00:58:12.010
but I used to go to Antalya

00:58:12.030 --> 00:58:13.990
when I was a kid on holiday.

00:58:14.311 --> 00:58:15.050
So I have a lot of time for

00:58:15.630 --> 00:58:16.512
the Turkish people.

00:58:16.552 --> 00:58:17.351
They're very, very nice.

00:58:20.512 --> 00:58:21.833
But then it was a bit like, yeah,

00:58:21.853 --> 00:58:23.574
small human, can't do it, scheduling,

00:58:23.635 --> 00:58:24.034
blah, blah, blah.

00:58:24.414 --> 00:58:25.454
But this year I didn't even like,

00:58:25.494 --> 00:58:26.675
I got the message and I was like,

00:58:27.615 --> 00:58:28.717
what are they going to say?

00:58:28.856 --> 00:58:29.056
Like,

00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:33.722
No, I mean, that was my thought.

00:58:33.742 --> 00:58:34.422
That was actually my thought.

00:58:34.443 --> 00:58:35.224
I was like, honest to God,

00:58:35.244 --> 00:58:35.844
the first thing that came

00:58:35.864 --> 00:58:36.385
to my head was like,

00:58:36.485 --> 00:58:37.485
what are they going to say?

00:58:37.585 --> 00:58:37.706
Like,

00:58:37.746 --> 00:58:39.768
what are they going to get on stage

00:58:39.788 --> 00:58:40.148
and say?

00:58:40.208 --> 00:58:44.351
Like, we're smashing it, lads.

00:58:44.371 --> 00:58:45.333
Imagine like Stig Cito

00:58:45.373 --> 00:58:46.054
sitting around the table

00:58:46.074 --> 00:58:46.994
trying to come up with four days,

00:58:47.114 --> 00:58:48.016
four days worth of content.

00:58:48.056 --> 00:58:48.536
Like, all right,

00:58:48.717 --> 00:58:50.237
so we could do another boxing thing.

00:58:50.657 --> 00:58:51.800
We can't do another boxing thing.

00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:53.201
We could do two days of boxing.

00:58:54.121 --> 00:58:57.224
Maybe we do a ninja course or whatever.

00:58:59.177 --> 00:58:59.637
It's in Dubai.

00:58:59.657 --> 00:59:00.498
Can you drink in Dubai?

00:59:00.518 --> 00:59:00.938
Is that even possible?

00:59:00.958 --> 00:59:01.659
You can drink in Dubai.

00:59:01.838 --> 00:59:02.579
You can drink in Dubai?

00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:04.739
You can drink in Dubai.

00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:09.802
Okay, well.

00:59:09.882 --> 00:59:10.802
Yeah, that would be, I agree.

00:59:10.882 --> 00:59:11.862
You can at least have a beer then.

00:59:12.222 --> 00:59:17.523
What are they going to say?

00:59:17.543 --> 00:59:19.164
For once, I'm not even trolling.

00:59:19.804 --> 00:59:21.525
I read the email and I was like,

00:59:21.945 --> 00:59:24.567
what are they going to say?

00:59:24.666 --> 00:59:25.586
What is there to say about

00:59:25.606 --> 00:59:27.208
the state of Cosmos right now?

00:59:28.210 --> 00:59:30.733
from a stage with loads of

00:59:30.753 --> 00:59:31.813
people in the audience

00:59:32.494 --> 00:59:33.655
whether there will even be

00:59:34.255 --> 00:59:34.835
loads of people in the

00:59:34.875 --> 00:59:36.135
audience I don't know maybe

00:59:36.155 --> 00:59:36.996
it'll be an empty room

00:59:37.016 --> 00:59:37.896
which would be even fucking

00:59:37.936 --> 00:59:39.177
set that would actually be

00:59:39.197 --> 00:59:40.099
the worst thing right if

00:59:40.139 --> 00:59:41.420
you guys mostly most of

00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:42.059
these things are now are

00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:43.900
empty rooms because yeah if

00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:44.802
you went I'll give them

00:59:45.541 --> 00:59:46.242
yeah if you went I'll give

00:59:46.262 --> 00:59:46.862
them the benefit of the

00:59:46.882 --> 00:59:48.344
doubt and then you go and

00:59:48.364 --> 00:59:49.264
then there's fucking nobody

00:59:49.284 --> 00:59:50.364
there that would be bad

00:59:50.686 --> 00:59:52.646
that would be bad because it's not like

00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:56.260
I went to a conference a few

00:59:56.280 --> 00:59:58.202
weeks ago in Scotland.

00:59:58.322 --> 00:59:59.583
It was the first Scottish

00:59:59.603 --> 01:00:00.603
crypto conference, I think,

01:00:00.664 --> 01:00:02.125
industry thing.

01:00:02.184 --> 01:00:02.885
And it was quite quiet

01:00:02.905 --> 01:00:04.166
because it was the first one.

01:00:05.927 --> 01:00:06.307
Even then,

01:00:06.347 --> 01:00:07.769
it was reasonably well attended

01:00:07.789 --> 01:00:10.351
for a first event, whatever.

01:00:11.172 --> 01:00:12.132
The organizers did the best.

01:00:12.572 --> 01:00:14.494
And it was well done within

01:00:14.514 --> 01:00:15.375
the context of what you

01:00:15.394 --> 01:00:15.976
could get away with.

01:00:18.157 --> 01:00:19.318
But there's a big difference

01:00:19.338 --> 01:00:20.900
between going to a first event,

01:00:21.059 --> 01:00:23.442
number one, and one that's

01:00:25.048 --> 01:00:26.590
you can wake up in the morning,

01:00:26.750 --> 01:00:28.311
have a coffee, have your breakfast,

01:00:28.992 --> 01:00:30.333
go across the country there,

01:00:30.612 --> 01:00:32.353
like pretty easily work on the train,

01:00:32.695 --> 01:00:33.514
get off at the other end,

01:00:33.574 --> 01:00:35.817
go to the fucking thing, stay a night,

01:00:35.896 --> 01:00:36.336
head home.

01:00:37.338 --> 01:00:37.637
And like,

01:00:37.858 --> 01:00:39.018
imagine going all the way to

01:00:39.059 --> 01:00:40.940
Dubai and that's an empty fucking room,

01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:41.501
like dead empty.

01:00:41.521 --> 01:00:41.621
Right.

01:00:42.541 --> 01:00:45.623
You'd be like, what?

01:00:45.704 --> 01:00:46.945
Yeah, exactly.

01:00:47.664 --> 01:00:47.905
Yeah.

01:00:47.925 --> 01:00:48.224
I don't know.

01:00:48.244 --> 01:00:49.065
Although I think token will

01:00:49.085 --> 01:00:50.027
be pretty well.

01:00:50.067 --> 01:00:50.847
You reckon token will be busy?

01:00:50.867 --> 01:00:51.927
Yeah, I think it'll be busy.

01:00:51.947 --> 01:00:53.168
I think it'll be.

01:00:53.228 --> 01:00:53.548
Where is it?

01:00:53.588 --> 01:00:54.530
Is it Singapore, Hong Kong?

01:00:55.056 --> 01:00:57.878
it's in uh it's in it's in

01:00:57.920 --> 01:00:59.380
singapore it's in singapore

01:00:59.420 --> 01:01:00.342
it's probably just as well

01:01:00.802 --> 01:01:02.543
yeah I was planning on I

01:01:02.583 --> 01:01:03.744
canceled I canceled this

01:01:03.784 --> 01:01:04.684
because I don't know it's

01:01:04.704 --> 01:01:06.246
just the timing wasn't

01:01:06.306 --> 01:01:07.306
right it's just it's a big

01:01:07.347 --> 01:01:08.407
expense in a lot of time so

01:01:08.467 --> 01:01:09.949
it's a lot of like it's a

01:01:09.969 --> 01:01:10.909
lot of time and it's quite

01:01:10.971 --> 01:01:11.650
and it's quite a bit of

01:01:11.690 --> 01:01:12.692
money the money really adds

01:01:12.811 --> 01:01:13.853
up like from doing these

01:01:13.873 --> 01:01:14.833
conferences oh for sure

01:01:15.094 --> 01:01:16.855
yeah that's my sponsor

01:01:16.875 --> 01:01:17.556
something or anything else

01:01:17.576 --> 01:01:18.556
and you're really you're

01:01:18.577 --> 01:01:19.518
really getting into some dollars

01:01:20.798 --> 01:01:22.521
I might try to make it permissionless,

01:01:22.541 --> 01:01:22.780
though.

01:01:23.061 --> 01:01:24.623
Which permission is?

01:01:25.063 --> 01:01:28.688
It's in Salt Lake, the middle,

01:01:29.289 --> 01:01:30.690
second week of October, I think it is.

01:01:30.869 --> 01:01:33.552
I guess it's domestic for you as well.

01:01:33.594 --> 01:01:34.253
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:36.757 --> 01:01:37.677
Yeah, it would be good.

01:01:37.717 --> 01:01:38.798
So I think I'm going to try to,

01:01:38.998 --> 01:01:39.619
I'm not going to make a big

01:01:39.898 --> 01:01:40.278
deal out of it,

01:01:40.298 --> 01:01:41.199
but I think there's some

01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:42.039
things I'd like to see and

01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:42.860
some folks I'd like to be

01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:43.460
able to hang out with.

01:01:43.481 --> 01:01:44.440
So we'll see if it happens.

01:01:44.501 --> 01:01:46.822
Yeah, I think if there's a, I mean,

01:01:46.842 --> 01:01:48.702
the one I actually missed

01:01:48.722 --> 01:01:51.043
because I was on my summer holidays and,

01:01:51.184 --> 01:01:51.884
but I would have probably

01:01:51.903 --> 01:01:52.965
otherwise gone to was E,

01:01:53.764 --> 01:01:55.005
as much as I fucking am not

01:01:55.025 --> 01:01:55.806
interested in E,

01:01:56.166 --> 01:01:57.847
the ECC that was in Brussels.

01:01:58.206 --> 01:01:58.527
Yeah.

01:01:58.626 --> 01:02:00.067
I was just like, literally,

01:02:01.128 --> 01:02:02.047
my other half used to live

01:02:02.068 --> 01:02:03.809
there for a while.

01:02:03.949 --> 01:02:06.170
So like, I have friends that are there.

01:02:07.338 --> 01:02:07.577
Like,

01:02:09.659 --> 01:02:10.860
I would literally probably have taken

01:02:10.900 --> 01:02:12.139
my bike on the train and

01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:13.240
just made a long weekend of

01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:14.181
it and just been like,

01:02:15.202 --> 01:02:16.222
go to a full day of stuff,

01:02:16.262 --> 01:02:17.382
go to some good breweries.

01:02:17.922 --> 01:02:20.385
If it all gets a bit too crypto energy,

01:02:20.545 --> 01:02:21.204
just take my bike.

01:02:21.324 --> 01:02:23.126
I know some routes outside the city,

01:02:23.206 --> 01:02:25.206
just like head off for a morning,

01:02:25.286 --> 01:02:26.367
get completely soaked

01:02:26.387 --> 01:02:27.807
because the weather there is dreadful.

01:02:28.489 --> 01:02:29.248
But then get back to the

01:02:29.268 --> 01:02:31.030
city in the afternoon, have some fries,

01:02:31.070 --> 01:02:32.090
have a beer and be like, right,

01:02:32.110 --> 01:02:33.610
I'll go to an evening network event.

01:02:33.630 --> 01:02:34.851
Let's ease ourselves back

01:02:34.931 --> 01:02:36.253
into some crypto nonsense.

01:02:37.811 --> 01:02:40.994
That would have been a cracking event.

01:02:41.295 --> 01:02:42.056
I was a bit sad to have

01:02:42.115 --> 01:02:42.637
missed that because I

01:02:42.657 --> 01:02:45.860
thought that would have had big,

01:02:45.980 --> 01:02:47.481
lots of freaks, lots of good beer.

01:02:48.824 --> 01:02:50.204
Hopefully nobody trying to

01:02:50.244 --> 01:02:51.746
sell me house NFTs.

01:02:51.907 --> 01:02:53.429
That seems to happen every conference.

01:02:53.449 --> 01:02:53.568
Yeah.

01:02:54.693 --> 01:02:54.954
You know,

01:02:54.994 --> 01:02:55.954
like when you're at a conference

01:02:55.994 --> 01:02:57.675
and you just stop and you

01:02:57.735 --> 01:02:58.456
look for a second,

01:02:58.476 --> 01:03:00.137
like you don't know where

01:03:00.157 --> 01:03:01.137
you're going to be next.

01:03:01.157 --> 01:03:02.619
And somebody just latches

01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:03.559
onto you immediately.

01:03:03.579 --> 01:03:05.181
Yeah.

01:03:05.201 --> 01:03:07.282
I swear, every crypto conference,

01:03:07.382 --> 01:03:08.103
it's somebody trying to

01:03:08.163 --> 01:03:10.384
convince me about property NFTs.

01:03:10.684 --> 01:03:12.286
Even at that fucking Chainlink one,

01:03:12.945 --> 01:03:15.728
like I lost Artifact and

01:03:15.768 --> 01:03:17.628
you at one of the side events.

01:03:17.648 --> 01:03:18.230
Oh, it's Archon?

01:03:18.369 --> 01:03:19.090
Yeah.

01:03:19.150 --> 01:03:19.510
Yeah.

01:03:19.650 --> 01:03:21.891
And somebody literally was just like, hey,

01:03:21.931 --> 01:03:22.632
man, from behind me.

01:03:22.652 --> 01:03:23.132
I'm like, poof.

01:03:24.425 --> 01:03:25.987
I was just like, just try to work out.

01:03:26.007 --> 01:03:27.668
I was like, are they gone to the bar?

01:03:27.708 --> 01:03:27.969
Hey, man.

01:03:29.048 --> 01:03:32.070
I was like, oh, hey, buddy.

01:03:33.311 --> 01:03:33.992
What do you do?

01:03:34.132 --> 01:03:35.152
What are you working on?

01:03:35.172 --> 01:03:35.893
It's like, well, yeah,

01:03:35.914 --> 01:03:36.434
we're just getting this

01:03:37.135 --> 01:03:39.155
property NFT project off the board.

01:03:39.175 --> 01:03:41.998
I was like, fucking every time, man.

01:03:42.038 --> 01:03:42.637
Every time.

01:03:42.858 --> 01:03:47.742
There's always an RWA hanging around.

01:03:47.822 --> 01:03:48.061
Yeah.

01:03:48.121 --> 01:03:48.362
I'm like,

01:03:48.521 --> 01:03:49.623
there are some real world assets

01:03:49.643 --> 01:03:51.903
that do actually genuinely make sense.

01:03:51.943 --> 01:03:53.865
And this ain't one of them.

01:03:53.985 --> 01:03:54.186
Yeah.

01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:56.664
Yeah.

01:03:56.684 --> 01:03:58.172
Yeah.

01:03:58.193 --> 01:03:58.414
Oh, well.

01:04:01.434 --> 01:04:01.574
Yeah.

01:04:01.673 --> 01:04:01.974
And ECC,

01:04:01.994 --> 01:04:03.474
I've always heard like really good

01:04:03.494 --> 01:04:04.474
conversations coming out of that too.

01:04:04.494 --> 01:04:05.155
Cause I think it's a little

01:04:05.175 --> 01:04:06.576
bit less marketing based than you have.

01:04:07.376 --> 01:04:08.496
It's not like consensus and

01:04:08.516 --> 01:04:09.436
things like that, where it's just,

01:04:09.577 --> 01:04:10.016
you know,

01:04:10.737 --> 01:04:12.536
giant booths and all that stupid shit.

01:04:12.617 --> 01:04:14.878
And I think it's much more of a, maybe,

01:04:14.898 --> 01:04:15.617
I think you might have

01:04:15.677 --> 01:04:16.619
better conversations there,

01:04:17.059 --> 01:04:17.719
which I'm all about.

01:04:17.759 --> 01:04:17.918
Like,

01:04:17.938 --> 01:04:20.320
cause those are the things that you gotta,

01:04:20.340 --> 01:04:20.519
you know,

01:04:20.539 --> 01:04:21.860
back to that kissing thousand frogs.

01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:22.840
Like you meet a lot of people,

01:04:23.061 --> 01:04:24.521
but there's only a few that

01:04:24.601 --> 01:04:25.820
you just happen to run into.

01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:26.981
You're like, God, that was really great.

01:04:27.021 --> 01:04:27.282
But yeah.

01:04:27.963 --> 01:04:28.764
be nice to be able to

01:04:29.003 --> 01:04:30.025
increase that hit ratio you

01:04:30.204 --> 01:04:32.065
know what I mean yeah I

01:04:32.085 --> 01:04:33.365
mean I think I think that

01:04:33.585 --> 01:04:34.206
one of the other things

01:04:34.226 --> 01:04:35.226
I've kind of realized from

01:04:36.827 --> 01:04:38.068
I I don't know why I'm such

01:04:38.088 --> 01:04:39.228
a fucking idiot my brain is

01:04:39.268 --> 01:04:40.608
so broken that it took me

01:04:40.628 --> 01:04:42.010
doing a research paper to

01:04:42.130 --> 01:04:44.010
to actually have this this

01:04:44.050 --> 01:04:46.552
thought but whatever that's

01:04:47.132 --> 01:04:48.532
how it's ended up shaking

01:04:48.672 --> 01:04:51.213
out is that I think the

01:04:51.693 --> 01:04:52.873
future direction of where

01:04:52.893 --> 01:04:53.534
we're going to be going

01:04:53.755 --> 01:04:54.335
what we're going to be

01:04:54.355 --> 01:04:56.396
doing the next few years is just

01:04:57.452 --> 01:04:58.773
going much more heavily back

01:04:58.833 --> 01:04:59.755
on the engineering side of

01:04:59.775 --> 01:05:00.596
things and like in this

01:05:00.615 --> 01:05:03.398
space um and you know I

01:05:03.418 --> 01:05:04.498
don't know if that like is

01:05:04.539 --> 01:05:05.358
going to result in growing

01:05:05.378 --> 01:05:06.219
the team anytime soon or

01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:07.021
anything like that whether

01:05:07.041 --> 01:05:07.740
I'm gonna have to pick up

01:05:07.780 --> 01:05:09.802
the the lion's share of it

01:05:09.882 --> 01:05:10.563
and you know maybe we'll

01:05:10.583 --> 01:05:13.885
get paid in validating

01:05:14.005 --> 01:05:15.246
right so you know maybe

01:05:15.286 --> 01:05:16.188
we're not maybe we're not

01:05:16.208 --> 01:05:17.048
going to be fully out of

01:05:17.088 --> 01:05:18.349
the the validated game as

01:05:18.369 --> 01:05:20.030
our main source of income right um

01:05:21.018 --> 01:05:22.980
But I do know that I think

01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:23.679
we're going to have a

01:05:23.739 --> 01:05:25.920
better hit rate of useful

01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:28.442
conversations if we go to things like ECC,

01:05:28.461 --> 01:05:30.362
where it's primarily technical folks.

01:05:31.722 --> 01:05:33.284
Or maybe technical folks are

01:05:33.344 --> 01:05:34.884
wrong because that's not

01:05:34.903 --> 01:05:35.603
exactly the audience.

01:05:35.623 --> 01:05:36.105
But like you said,

01:05:36.164 --> 01:05:38.204
it's less about marketing a

01:05:38.244 --> 01:05:40.545
product to people from foundations.

01:05:40.726 --> 01:05:41.407
It's more about having

01:05:41.586 --> 01:05:42.987
conversations and networking, right?

01:05:43.547 --> 01:05:44.068
Yeah.

01:05:46.811 --> 01:05:48.972
Cause I think it's the,

01:05:48.992 --> 01:05:49.893
that's the thing that I

01:05:49.932 --> 01:05:51.213
think the research has kind

01:05:51.233 --> 01:05:53.012
of clarified for me is like, there is,

01:05:54.132 --> 01:05:54.594
there are,

01:05:54.853 --> 01:05:55.934
I do believe there are use

01:05:55.954 --> 01:05:57.014
cases in here and I don't

01:05:57.034 --> 01:05:57.974
believe the technology we

01:05:58.014 --> 01:05:59.235
have is necessarily fit for

01:05:59.255 --> 01:06:00.255
those use cases yet,

01:06:00.275 --> 01:06:01.074
but we're also not going to

01:06:01.094 --> 01:06:02.275
get there by sitting on our

01:06:02.295 --> 01:06:02.954
fucking hands.

01:06:03.074 --> 01:06:07.135
So it's like, you know, what is the,

01:06:07.596 --> 01:06:10.016
what are the quicker paths from a to B?

01:06:10.617 --> 01:06:11.556
What are the parts from a to

01:06:11.577 --> 01:06:12.936
B number one that we can

01:06:12.996 --> 01:06:15.277
even like conceive of and of those,

01:06:15.318 --> 01:06:16.097
which are the least bad.

01:06:18.338 --> 01:06:19.199
I thought it was a thousand

01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:20.579
monkeys rugging a million

01:06:20.619 --> 01:06:22.802
people until one use case worked out.

01:06:23.422 --> 01:06:24.202
Isn't that a Shakespeare

01:06:24.222 --> 01:06:27.324
quote or something?

01:06:27.644 --> 01:06:28.485
I think it is.

01:06:28.505 --> 01:06:30.226
The little tiny monkey in the car, right?

01:06:30.347 --> 01:06:30.987
Something like that?

01:06:31.188 --> 01:06:33.048
It's a thousand AI bots

01:06:33.469 --> 01:06:34.411
rugging a million...

01:06:34.990 --> 01:06:36.251
That's the thing, right?

01:06:36.612 --> 01:06:38.233
The AI bots will learn that

01:06:38.353 --> 01:06:41.554
rugging is... Can you imagine?

01:06:41.954 --> 01:06:42.994
You're like, AI bot,

01:06:43.135 --> 01:06:44.516
go away and make me some money.

01:06:44.635 --> 01:06:46.175
And they go rug somebody?

01:06:46.456 --> 01:06:46.856
That'd be awesome.

01:06:46.876 --> 01:06:49.918
Imagine the absolute scenes.

01:06:49.958 --> 01:06:50.699
They're like,

01:06:51.079 --> 01:06:52.358
they just go and do a spear

01:06:52.398 --> 01:06:53.099
phishing scam.

01:06:54.436 --> 01:06:55.277
Or maybe they work together.

01:06:55.297 --> 01:06:56.538
So like one AI bot,

01:06:57.097 --> 01:06:58.318
it's just like coordinated

01:06:58.599 --> 01:07:00.378
AI Ponzi's where like one

01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:01.960
AI bot invests and then it

01:07:02.019 --> 01:07:02.820
tells the other ones, hey,

01:07:02.860 --> 01:07:03.460
go invest in this.

01:07:03.481 --> 01:07:04.561
Oh, yeah.

01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:05.621
Run the price up.

01:07:05.681 --> 01:07:06.121
Yeah.

01:07:06.141 --> 01:07:06.842
You run the price up and

01:07:06.862 --> 01:07:07.581
then you just pull it out.

01:07:07.601 --> 01:07:08.922
And then, yeah, it's like that.

01:07:09.322 --> 01:07:10.563
It's kind of like that.

01:07:10.943 --> 01:07:14.344
Was it in Peanuts where... Yeah,

01:07:14.364 --> 01:07:15.144
it's Peanuts, isn't it?

01:07:15.184 --> 01:07:16.306
With the football,

01:07:16.365 --> 01:07:17.306
where they just bend down

01:07:17.326 --> 01:07:19.306
behind the football and push it over,

01:07:19.467 --> 01:07:20.186
like over and over again.

01:07:20.266 --> 01:07:21.568
I was like...

01:07:22.608 --> 01:07:23.409
That's what the AI bots.

01:07:23.429 --> 01:07:24.371
As soon as there's two of them,

01:07:24.391 --> 01:07:25.452
they got you.

01:07:25.472 --> 01:07:26.094
I don't think it was a

01:07:26.153 --> 01:07:27.295
Charles Schulz peanuts

01:07:27.655 --> 01:07:29.157
around AI bot rugging

01:07:32.264 --> 01:07:33.224
probably do and you probably

01:07:33.244 --> 01:07:34.525
get an ai to make you a

01:07:34.565 --> 01:07:37.389
fake peanuts comic about ai

01:07:37.588 --> 01:07:39.250
rugging holding the

01:07:39.269 --> 01:07:41.492
football for another it's

01:07:41.572 --> 01:07:42.413
an ai about holding up yeah

01:07:42.432 --> 01:07:44.994
I mean to be fair moving

01:07:45.034 --> 01:07:46.617
the football in the in the

01:07:46.637 --> 01:07:47.737
peanuts comic is the

01:07:47.777 --> 01:07:49.278
original rug pull oh

01:07:49.358 --> 01:07:50.840
absolutely you kept going

01:07:50.860 --> 01:07:52.742
back for it yeah

01:07:55.143 --> 01:07:56.284
oh he did kept going back

01:07:56.324 --> 01:07:57.545
for a dollar sign ball

01:07:57.585 --> 01:08:01.449
token and he just kept kept

01:08:01.469 --> 01:08:02.590
committing everything he

01:08:02.630 --> 01:08:03.911
had to it and then kept

01:08:03.931 --> 01:08:05.532
gonna go up this time all

01:08:05.592 --> 01:08:06.434
right it's gonna go up this

01:08:06.534 --> 01:08:07.655
time it's gonna get okay

01:08:07.675 --> 01:08:08.896
cool cool cool all right

01:08:08.916 --> 01:08:09.615
there's one more you can

01:08:09.655 --> 01:08:10.916
tell yourself that bro it's

01:08:10.936 --> 01:08:13.900
gonna be all right um

01:08:13.940 --> 01:08:14.820
somebody else just cashed

01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:15.661
out two thousand all right

01:08:15.681 --> 01:08:17.603
I'll put a thousand to be

01:08:17.643 --> 01:08:18.684
fair rama has actually

01:08:18.703 --> 01:08:19.704
reminded me that pen number

01:08:19.805 --> 01:08:21.046
exists and that is cool

01:08:25.921 --> 01:08:26.581
To be fair, he said,

01:08:26.622 --> 01:08:27.282
and then he'll create a

01:08:27.301 --> 01:08:30.704
wallet number and your money is theirs.

01:08:30.765 --> 01:08:32.527
Hey, look, look,

01:08:32.546 --> 01:08:34.149
privacy is a double-edged sword.

01:08:34.309 --> 01:08:34.748
Okay.

01:08:34.909 --> 01:08:35.270
Right.

01:08:35.689 --> 01:08:36.030
You know,

01:08:37.103 --> 01:08:38.023
And, and, you know, Rama,

01:08:38.123 --> 01:08:40.144
I would say that the idea

01:08:40.163 --> 01:08:41.164
that privacy and

01:08:41.204 --> 01:08:42.524
criminality are one and the

01:08:42.564 --> 01:08:45.025
same is very negative stereotypes,

01:08:45.086 --> 01:08:47.226
primarily used by big tech

01:08:47.867 --> 01:08:49.328
and governments to reduce

01:08:49.347 --> 01:08:50.929
your personal freedoms and privacy.

01:08:50.988 --> 01:08:54.310
So, you know, man, whatever, like,

01:08:54.829 --> 01:08:55.329
you know,

01:08:55.850 --> 01:08:57.530
maybe you should like think

01:08:57.551 --> 01:08:58.752
before you speak, man,

01:08:58.891 --> 01:09:00.891
about like eroding your own

01:09:00.912 --> 01:09:02.033
personal rights and stuff.

01:09:04.106 --> 01:09:10.551
dude bro dude bro the ai

01:09:10.572 --> 01:09:11.733
will use private money yes

01:09:11.773 --> 01:09:13.935
the ai will use private money um

01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:16.421
No, no, no, no.

01:09:17.122 --> 01:09:17.903
My research team,

01:09:18.063 --> 01:09:18.904
my research group will get

01:09:18.963 --> 01:09:20.005
totally organized and we'll

01:09:20.024 --> 01:09:21.445
have something production ready in like.

01:09:22.305 --> 01:09:22.747
Twenty years.

01:09:22.766 --> 01:09:23.287
I can't wait.

01:09:23.306 --> 01:09:25.168
I can't wait.

01:09:27.530 --> 01:09:28.530
Oh, dear.

01:09:28.551 --> 01:09:29.431
That's the problem as well.

01:09:29.511 --> 01:09:31.113
You know, when you like, you know,

01:09:31.153 --> 01:09:32.033
when you're you've been a

01:09:32.054 --> 01:09:33.055
professional for quite a while.

01:09:33.074 --> 01:09:33.194
Right.

01:09:33.215 --> 01:09:34.997
And you have standards and

01:09:35.136 --> 01:09:35.997
you always see that

01:09:36.037 --> 01:09:37.497
everything will go wrong eventually.

01:09:37.559 --> 01:09:37.759
Right.

01:09:37.899 --> 01:09:38.800
Like it has to go wrong

01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:39.699
because everything always does.

01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:40.520
And you always end up having

01:09:40.541 --> 01:09:42.061
to rebuild everything you've ever done.

01:09:42.082 --> 01:09:42.842
Yeah.

01:09:43.519 --> 01:09:45.279
And so it's really difficult

01:09:45.460 --> 01:09:48.421
to be like at the point of career where I,

01:09:48.703 --> 01:09:49.722
I am certainly,

01:09:49.743 --> 01:09:51.043
I don't know about you and

01:09:51.203 --> 01:09:53.386
talk to people about new

01:09:53.445 --> 01:09:55.908
emerging tech because quite often,

01:09:56.007 --> 01:09:57.128
especially like what I do now,

01:09:57.208 --> 01:09:58.869
I'm kind of selling it like

01:09:58.909 --> 01:09:59.990
on some level because I'm,

01:10:00.091 --> 01:10:01.351
I'm either networking or I'm,

01:10:01.712 --> 01:10:04.154
or I'm doing something

01:10:04.173 --> 01:10:07.395
where somebody might buy a step of remove,

01:10:07.515 --> 01:10:08.457
introduce me to somebody

01:10:08.476 --> 01:10:09.858
that will make us money as a business.

01:10:09.917 --> 01:10:10.097
Right.

01:10:10.898 --> 01:10:12.479
And the problem is I always

01:10:12.519 --> 01:10:14.159
keep doing the fucking stupid caveat.

01:10:14.180 --> 01:10:14.800
Some people are like, oh,

01:10:14.819 --> 01:10:15.801
that sounds like a really good use case.

01:10:15.820 --> 01:10:16.640
And you're like, yeah, well,

01:10:16.661 --> 01:10:18.442
it's not really there yet, but like,

01:10:18.462 --> 01:10:18.641
we'll,

01:10:18.681 --> 01:10:20.582
we'll iterate towards something useful,

01:10:20.802 --> 01:10:21.203
you know?

01:10:21.484 --> 01:10:22.123
And they're like, oh, right.

01:10:22.144 --> 01:10:23.024
What would be an example of that?

01:10:23.045 --> 01:10:23.564
And you're like, well,

01:10:23.585 --> 01:10:24.085
we're not there yet.

01:10:24.104 --> 01:10:27.327
I just told you that.

01:10:28.046 --> 01:10:28.987
like the light goes out of

01:10:29.006 --> 01:10:29.828
their eyes you're just like

01:10:30.028 --> 01:10:30.908
oh fuck no I should have

01:10:30.927 --> 01:10:31.889
just been like I should

01:10:31.908 --> 01:10:32.649
have just been like yeah

01:10:32.668 --> 01:10:35.750
man like like ai wallets

01:10:35.869 --> 01:10:37.751
yeah like on coinbase or

01:10:37.791 --> 01:10:38.952
something like that would

01:10:38.971 --> 01:10:41.152
be sick wouldn't it yeah

01:10:41.192 --> 01:10:43.793
now because like yes inside

01:10:44.913 --> 01:10:47.335
it's like just not say not

01:10:47.454 --> 01:10:48.635
say the thought uh I don't

01:10:48.654 --> 01:10:50.355
know it's like intrusive

01:10:50.376 --> 01:10:52.817
thoughts but um just invest

01:10:52.896 --> 01:10:54.818
and kick the football just

01:10:54.898 --> 01:10:57.139
come on yeah yeah to be fair

01:10:57.158 --> 01:10:57.798
people ask that about the

01:10:57.838 --> 01:10:58.958
research projects and stuff

01:10:58.979 --> 01:10:59.739
that we're the research

01:10:59.760 --> 01:11:00.500
stuff that we're doing in

01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:01.340
the department that's like

01:11:01.380 --> 01:11:02.881
hands-on they're like like

01:11:02.921 --> 01:11:03.900
hey is this going to solve

01:11:03.940 --> 01:11:04.640
this problem and that

01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:05.462
problem and that the other

01:11:05.521 --> 01:11:06.662
and it's like and I'm like

01:11:06.681 --> 01:11:07.481
yeah well I mean we're

01:11:07.502 --> 01:11:08.542
building a production ready

01:11:08.582 --> 01:11:09.622
system but like

01:11:11.085 --> 01:11:12.125
it's going to have flaws

01:11:12.185 --> 01:11:14.226
like every system.

01:11:14.266 --> 01:11:17.109
This isn't like the Garden of Eden.

01:11:17.208 --> 01:11:18.789
And they're just like, oh, okay, well,

01:11:18.951 --> 01:11:19.911
I mean, fuck it.

01:11:20.832 --> 01:11:21.893
I guess we don't give a shit then.

01:11:21.953 --> 01:11:23.573
And you're like, no, we will be good.

01:11:23.934 --> 01:11:25.295
You should be interested.

01:11:25.456 --> 01:11:26.837
Ah, I've lost the room.

01:11:27.596 --> 01:11:28.337
I need to be like,

01:11:28.997 --> 01:11:30.658
this will make you rich.

01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:33.902
But wait, it's just cash.

01:11:34.042 --> 01:11:36.583
It's just small denomination

01:11:37.685 --> 01:11:39.185
private cash with

01:11:41.493 --> 01:11:43.274
How am I going to get rich from that?

01:11:43.314 --> 01:11:44.155
No, it's going to make you rich.

01:11:44.195 --> 01:11:45.095
You just don't.

01:11:45.155 --> 01:11:46.016
You don't see it yet.

01:11:46.037 --> 01:11:46.737
You don't see it yet.

01:11:46.777 --> 01:11:47.256
That's fine.

01:11:47.457 --> 01:11:49.297
You're early.

01:11:49.378 --> 01:11:50.179
You're early.

01:11:51.841 --> 01:11:53.101
god imagine imagine if we

01:11:53.141 --> 01:11:56.021
took all of the shit high

01:11:56.061 --> 01:11:57.483
pressure marketing bullshit

01:11:57.502 --> 01:11:58.722
that we've seen in crypto

01:11:59.222 --> 01:12:00.203
and start to use it in the

01:12:00.224 --> 01:12:01.283
real world we would be

01:12:01.344 --> 01:12:02.503
unstoppable would be

01:12:02.564 --> 01:12:05.385
monsters be kings kings

01:12:05.864 --> 01:12:09.746
kings yeah kings would be

01:12:09.765 --> 01:12:10.746
it would be less the guy

01:12:10.786 --> 01:12:12.487
trying to sell the uh the the

01:12:13.027 --> 01:12:14.667
the car that could do uh two

01:12:14.688 --> 01:12:15.509
hundred hectares of a

01:12:15.529 --> 01:12:16.689
single tank of kerosene uh

01:12:18.051 --> 01:12:21.173
and more um oh god what was

01:12:21.213 --> 01:12:23.615
the um what was that stupid

01:12:24.516 --> 01:12:27.038
um what was it called when

01:12:27.118 --> 01:12:28.260
elon musk reinvented the

01:12:28.300 --> 01:12:29.480
train what was that called

01:12:31.283 --> 01:12:33.484
oh you mean the um the

01:12:33.524 --> 01:12:34.905
tunnels or he built the

01:12:34.926 --> 01:12:35.865
hyperloop thing the

01:12:35.886 --> 01:12:37.507
hyperloop yeah the monorail

01:12:38.418 --> 01:12:40.180
Monorail, yes, exactly.

01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:41.060
That was the Simpsons thing

01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:41.860
I was going for.

01:12:42.780 --> 01:12:43.240
Monorail.

01:12:43.261 --> 01:12:45.542
Like, literally,

01:12:45.563 --> 01:12:47.002
mono for the Greek meaning one,

01:12:47.182 --> 01:12:49.243
and rail for the Greek meaning rail.

01:12:49.264 --> 01:12:53.305
Like, I tell you what,

01:12:53.365 --> 01:12:53.907
do you know what was a

01:12:53.947 --> 01:12:55.106
delight in my

01:12:55.146 --> 01:12:56.368
transcriptions was the

01:12:56.467 --> 01:12:58.809
number of times people who

01:12:58.828 --> 01:12:59.828
were interviewed just said

01:12:59.989 --> 01:13:01.329
things like shitcoin.

01:13:02.430 --> 01:13:03.171
Just unironically,

01:13:03.211 --> 01:13:04.612
just straight into the mic.

01:13:04.631 --> 01:13:05.811
Without prompting, like, you just...

01:13:07.443 --> 01:13:08.203
So the word shit coin,

01:13:08.564 --> 01:13:09.583
shit coin or shit chain.

01:13:09.604 --> 01:13:13.087
And this is like the best bit is like,

01:13:13.207 --> 01:13:16.088
obviously in an aggregated truncated form,

01:13:16.328 --> 01:13:16.548
right?

01:13:17.390 --> 01:13:19.131
Some of that, uh, some of the,

01:13:19.291 --> 01:13:19.770
the portion of the

01:13:19.791 --> 01:13:20.952
transcripts that get used

01:13:21.032 --> 01:13:22.613
in the paper or cited directly.

01:13:23.213 --> 01:13:26.195
will end up um I guess well

01:13:26.216 --> 01:13:27.337
they won't be they won't be

01:13:27.738 --> 01:13:28.557
published with the paper

01:13:28.578 --> 01:13:29.479
because that's not how it

01:13:29.498 --> 01:13:30.880
works but they will be

01:13:31.399 --> 01:13:32.640
available for another

01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:35.363
academic to say prove this

01:13:35.382 --> 01:13:36.944
was said and then they

01:13:36.965 --> 01:13:37.885
could look at the archive

01:13:37.904 --> 01:13:39.246
right if they're and also

01:13:39.265 --> 01:13:40.327
if they're the institute

01:13:40.426 --> 01:13:41.547
our institution they can

01:13:42.007 --> 01:13:43.448
ask to to gain access to

01:13:43.488 --> 01:13:46.292
our research um outputs um

01:13:47.011 --> 01:13:48.576
actually fair I would guess

01:13:48.615 --> 01:13:49.438
that as part of like

01:13:49.457 --> 01:13:50.782
proving my phd as well I

01:13:50.801 --> 01:13:52.185
think that review process

01:13:52.204 --> 01:13:52.846
somebody would probably

01:13:52.867 --> 01:13:53.989
have to double check the

01:13:54.511 --> 01:13:55.172
research hasn't been

01:13:56.131 --> 01:13:56.971
visibly and obviously

01:13:56.992 --> 01:13:58.332
falsified but it means that

01:13:58.471 --> 01:13:59.893
like at some point somebody

01:13:59.932 --> 01:14:01.512
who is a what I would call

01:14:01.533 --> 01:14:03.033
a serious academic not like

01:14:03.512 --> 01:14:05.814
a degenerate like me is

01:14:05.873 --> 01:14:06.993
going to look at something

01:14:07.054 --> 01:14:08.413
and be like I read some of

01:14:08.434 --> 01:14:09.253
these transcripts where

01:14:09.274 --> 01:14:10.875
somebody is just like it's

01:14:10.914 --> 01:14:12.354
just like well you know

01:14:12.675 --> 01:14:13.795
sometimes with these shit

01:14:13.814 --> 01:14:15.074
chains you know how it is

01:14:15.435 --> 01:14:16.715
they you know it's kind of

01:14:16.755 --> 01:14:17.756
in the name they're shit in

01:14:17.815 --> 01:14:18.956
a chain or whatever it is

01:14:18.996 --> 01:14:20.015
the quote is and they're

01:14:20.036 --> 01:14:21.456
just gonna be like what the

01:14:21.536 --> 01:14:22.376
fuck is wrong with these

01:14:22.435 --> 01:14:23.596
people does that mean you

01:14:23.636 --> 01:14:24.277
have to do you have to

01:14:24.317 --> 01:14:25.537
include a definition of what that means

01:14:27.376 --> 01:14:27.996
Oh, fuck.

01:14:28.036 --> 01:14:28.537
You know what?

01:14:28.636 --> 01:14:30.617
I didn't... You might have to, right?

01:14:30.756 --> 01:14:32.198
At no point in any of those

01:14:32.238 --> 01:14:34.037
interviews did I even push

01:14:34.158 --> 01:14:37.259
for anybody to say, hey, by the way,

01:14:37.979 --> 01:14:42.381
you've used this term shit chain.

01:14:42.860 --> 01:14:44.181
There's at least a couple of

01:14:44.221 --> 01:14:45.862
times as well where I

01:14:45.902 --> 01:14:47.023
prompted somebody to...

01:14:48.270 --> 01:14:50.032
to be like, oh, from your last statement,

01:14:50.152 --> 01:14:51.372
it seems like there's maybe

01:14:51.393 --> 01:14:52.694
a tension between something

01:14:52.734 --> 01:14:53.274
and something.

01:14:53.734 --> 01:14:54.354
And there's at least a

01:14:54.375 --> 01:14:54.796
couple of times where

01:14:54.836 --> 01:14:55.777
people were just like, yeah,

01:14:56.077 --> 01:14:59.420
fucking horseshit or something like that.

01:14:59.460 --> 01:15:00.340
Just like, oh yeah,

01:15:00.380 --> 01:15:02.042
it's just total fucking horseshit.

01:15:02.101 --> 01:15:02.903
Like there was,

01:15:03.023 --> 01:15:03.582
I think one of them was

01:15:03.603 --> 01:15:04.604
like a question about marketing.

01:15:04.623 --> 01:15:05.083
It was like, oh,

01:15:05.104 --> 01:15:05.885
would you say that that's

01:15:05.925 --> 01:15:08.327
like more of a marketing

01:15:08.367 --> 01:15:10.168
thing than a real technical reality?

01:15:10.189 --> 01:15:11.609
And I think they just replied with like,

01:15:12.069 --> 01:15:13.591
yeah, it's total fucking horseshit.

01:15:13.612 --> 01:15:14.051
Yeah.

01:15:14.693 --> 01:15:16.636
The best bit was that

01:15:16.957 --> 01:15:18.018
there's at least one of

01:15:18.038 --> 01:15:19.902
them where it said in the

01:15:19.942 --> 01:15:21.024
context of two things

01:15:21.043 --> 01:15:21.765
either side that I'm

01:15:21.824 --> 01:15:23.969
actually going to need to cite.

01:15:24.009 --> 01:15:24.829
So I'm basically going to

01:15:24.850 --> 01:15:25.851
have to do the thing where

01:15:27.673 --> 01:15:28.274
You know where you put an

01:15:28.293 --> 01:15:29.734
ellipsis to indicate that

01:15:30.055 --> 01:15:31.234
you've truncated a quote?

01:15:31.654 --> 01:15:31.795
Yeah.

01:15:32.555 --> 01:15:33.735
And the ellipsis will just

01:15:33.796 --> 01:15:35.537
be like whatever it was,

01:15:35.596 --> 01:15:36.817
horseshit or something.

01:15:36.856 --> 01:15:37.997
It's just like one word that

01:15:38.016 --> 01:15:38.917
I've truncated out.

01:15:39.318 --> 01:15:40.877
So again, if an academic is like,

01:15:41.238 --> 01:15:42.238
I wonder if other

01:15:42.319 --> 01:15:43.118
interesting things were

01:15:43.139 --> 01:15:45.139
said in that quote.

01:15:45.498 --> 01:15:46.800
I'll go and ask the Future

01:15:46.819 --> 01:15:47.819
of Money team if I can get

01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:48.739
access to that transcript.

01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:50.121
And then they just see like, blah, blah,

01:15:50.140 --> 01:15:52.060
blah, blah, blah, horseshit, blah, blah,

01:15:52.121 --> 01:15:52.240
blah.

01:15:52.261 --> 01:15:53.962
They're just like, shit coins.

01:15:55.528 --> 01:15:56.628
Or maybe nobody will ever

01:15:56.649 --> 01:15:57.829
look at this stuff and I

01:15:57.850 --> 01:15:59.471
will be the only one that ever knows.

01:15:59.551 --> 01:16:01.634
But it's entertaining as fuck.

01:16:02.145 --> 01:16:03.225
but somewhere it will be in

01:16:03.265 --> 01:16:04.605
a paper and that paper will

01:16:04.645 --> 01:16:07.046
have like you it's entering those,

01:16:07.286 --> 01:16:09.207
those terminologies like into this,

01:16:09.686 --> 01:16:11.186
this academic lexicon of

01:16:11.407 --> 01:16:12.528
like what a shit chain is.

01:16:12.587 --> 01:16:12.787
That's,

01:16:13.547 --> 01:16:16.149
I am absolutely going to shoehorn

01:16:16.248 --> 01:16:17.969
in the word shit chain.

01:16:18.349 --> 01:16:19.310
It should be in there and shit.

01:16:19.430 --> 01:16:19.750
Oh yeah.

01:16:19.789 --> 01:16:21.050
Yeah, for sure.

01:16:21.069 --> 01:16:22.970
I am going to absolutely, absolutely.

01:16:23.350 --> 01:16:25.310
I mean, just like swearing for no reason,

01:16:25.350 --> 01:16:26.091
I probably will,

01:16:26.150 --> 01:16:27.292
will avoid for the purposes

01:16:27.311 --> 01:16:29.591
of looking like I'm a serious person,

01:16:30.112 --> 01:16:31.872
but it's not, I mean,

01:16:32.313 --> 01:16:32.934
Not that we didn't create,

01:16:32.974 --> 01:16:35.917
but it's within the research.

01:16:37.100 --> 01:16:39.122
I want to get the word.

01:16:40.685 --> 01:16:42.386
Have you read Ethan Bookman,

01:16:42.627 --> 01:16:47.253
Bucky's master's thesis on...

01:16:48.135 --> 01:16:50.036
quote on um it's the

01:16:50.055 --> 01:16:51.136
definition of like the

01:16:51.155 --> 01:16:51.855
tenderman protocol

01:16:51.895 --> 01:16:53.676
basically um it's the one

01:16:53.697 --> 01:16:55.497
that starts with this it's

01:16:55.516 --> 01:16:56.177
the one that starts with

01:16:56.198 --> 01:16:57.837
the scarface quote it's

01:16:58.478 --> 01:16:59.779
this the start for those

01:16:59.819 --> 01:17:01.118
not who I've I've talked

01:17:01.139 --> 01:17:02.019
about this before because I

01:17:02.038 --> 01:17:02.960
think it's really funny

01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:04.560
like legitimately like some

01:17:04.579 --> 01:17:05.300
of the stuff that bucky's

01:17:05.340 --> 01:17:06.220
done is a bit cringe but

01:17:06.240 --> 01:17:07.081
this is very funny

01:17:08.487 --> 01:17:09.568
The paper starts with an

01:17:09.587 --> 01:17:10.609
acknowledgement section

01:17:10.729 --> 01:17:11.810
that says something like,

01:17:12.229 --> 01:17:13.270
I learned early in life

01:17:13.310 --> 01:17:14.532
from Tony Montana that a

01:17:14.591 --> 01:17:16.632
man has two things,

01:17:17.073 --> 01:17:18.274
his word and his balls,

01:17:18.333 --> 01:17:19.694
and he'd break them for nobody.

01:17:21.936 --> 01:17:25.658
And I was like, do you know what?

01:17:25.679 --> 01:17:27.480
I want to read the rest of this paper now.

01:17:27.581 --> 01:17:28.822
So, you know, I'm in.

01:17:28.841 --> 01:17:29.101
All right,

01:17:29.362 --> 01:17:30.722
I'll include it in the show notes.

01:17:30.962 --> 01:17:32.444
Yeah.

01:17:32.463 --> 01:17:33.465
In the spirit of that,

01:17:34.045 --> 01:17:36.407
I would love to get the word shit chain.

01:17:37.079 --> 01:17:38.480
in an actual academic

01:17:38.541 --> 01:17:40.443
published paper that is my

01:17:40.483 --> 01:17:43.125
goal so I'm gonna give it a

01:17:43.164 --> 01:17:44.385
go I'm gonna give it a go

01:17:45.586 --> 01:17:47.467
um I really hope that I

01:17:47.488 --> 01:17:48.448
remember that it was used

01:17:48.467 --> 01:17:49.248
in a couple of the

01:17:49.288 --> 01:17:50.949
interviews and I hope that

01:17:50.970 --> 01:17:53.051
there's a quote that is

01:17:53.252 --> 01:17:54.332
useful in the context of

01:17:54.353 --> 01:17:55.372
the research that means I

01:17:55.393 --> 01:17:56.474
can quote the whole thing

01:17:57.234 --> 01:17:58.015
with the shit chain that

01:17:58.135 --> 01:18:00.957
would be amazing I love that um

01:18:01.755 --> 01:18:02.375
That's probably why I'm in

01:18:02.414 --> 01:18:03.756
such a fucking good mood

01:18:03.775 --> 01:18:05.997
this week compared to like normal.

01:18:06.417 --> 01:18:07.658
Like there's, there's a,

01:18:07.677 --> 01:18:08.938
there's like an outside chance.

01:18:08.957 --> 01:18:09.417
I'm going to get to,

01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:11.059
I'm going to get to use the

01:18:11.078 --> 01:18:13.819
word shit shade and academic publication.

01:18:14.860 --> 01:18:16.681
Like what a, what a brave, what, you know,

01:18:16.721 --> 01:18:18.462
what a glorious future we live in.

01:18:18.502 --> 01:18:19.703
What a time to be alive.

01:18:19.903 --> 01:18:21.484
You're building it brick by brick.

01:18:22.164 --> 01:18:23.185
yeah man what a time to be

01:18:23.206 --> 01:18:24.827
alive you're just like oh

01:18:24.867 --> 01:18:26.608
what do you do I I'm I'm

01:18:26.667 --> 01:18:28.609
studying uh researching you

01:18:28.628 --> 01:18:29.590
know consensus systems

01:18:30.050 --> 01:18:30.569
what's your biggest

01:18:30.609 --> 01:18:31.871
contribution to the field

01:18:32.792 --> 01:18:33.971
uh I gave a comprehensive

01:18:34.011 --> 01:18:35.913
definition of the word shit

01:18:35.934 --> 01:18:37.814
chain agreed upon

01:18:38.015 --> 01:18:38.774
comprehensive difference

01:18:38.854 --> 01:18:39.996
I'm the shit chain guy I'm

01:18:40.036 --> 01:18:40.817
the shit chain oh you're

01:18:40.837 --> 01:18:41.896
the shit chain guy yeah

01:18:41.917 --> 01:18:42.997
yeah I gave the keynote of

01:18:43.018 --> 01:18:43.858
the thing about the shit

01:18:44.099 --> 01:18:46.039
yeah that's the fucking shit chain guy

01:18:47.431 --> 01:18:48.632
it's a chain you ask this

01:18:48.672 --> 01:18:50.354
guy he knows I can't forget

01:18:50.373 --> 01:18:51.434
that that's why that's my

01:18:51.474 --> 01:18:54.136
legacy right that's awesome

01:18:54.195 --> 01:18:54.695
I mean that would be a

01:18:54.716 --> 01:18:55.775
pretty fucking cool legacy

01:18:55.817 --> 01:19:02.239
actually be fair um hey um

01:19:02.279 --> 01:19:03.500
you know also extra respect

01:19:03.539 --> 01:19:04.680
in the chat I noticed that

01:19:04.940 --> 01:19:06.341
uh rama said that they uh

01:19:06.702 --> 01:19:08.762
picked up um picked up a

01:19:08.823 --> 01:19:11.524
bug bounty on kuji yeah I

01:19:11.543 --> 01:19:13.985
think for the uh yeah yeah

01:19:14.025 --> 01:19:14.805
he did that's great

01:19:16.380 --> 01:19:17.320
Cause he was doing a ton of

01:19:17.341 --> 01:19:18.001
research on that and all

01:19:18.020 --> 01:19:18.601
the work that came in

01:19:18.622 --> 01:19:20.203
through his medium posts,

01:19:20.222 --> 01:19:21.703
which I can put a link to as well.

01:19:21.724 --> 01:19:23.025
Cause I, we should have before.

01:19:23.046 --> 01:19:23.645
I don't know if we did.

01:19:23.666 --> 01:19:25.908
I love the way the show

01:19:25.927 --> 01:19:28.689
dates are currently say

01:19:28.710 --> 01:19:30.110
like Rob is bug bounty.

01:19:30.631 --> 01:19:31.512
Ethan's balls.

01:19:31.533 --> 01:19:33.753
I did write Ethan's balls.

01:19:33.774 --> 01:19:35.275
This is a note to myself.

01:19:37.557 --> 01:19:39.158
I guess it's a good summary.

01:19:39.179 --> 01:19:40.300
It's a good summary of what's happened.

01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:40.439
Yeah.

01:19:42.734 --> 01:19:45.475
Rama's bug bounty and Ethan's balls.

01:19:45.615 --> 01:19:47.077
Ethan's balls and shit chains.

01:19:48.478 --> 01:19:50.118
Sorry,

01:19:54.360 --> 01:19:56.322
I've just noticed Lil D has posted a

01:19:56.402 --> 01:19:58.944
mini essay and the comments

01:19:58.984 --> 01:20:00.904
are very small in the

01:20:00.944 --> 01:20:01.945
YouTube player thing.

01:20:02.565 --> 01:20:02.945
Literally,

01:20:02.985 --> 01:20:04.567
my poor eyesight after a day of

01:20:04.606 --> 01:20:07.769
trying to knock this paper

01:20:07.809 --> 01:20:09.529
into shape for a Friday deadline.

01:20:11.310 --> 01:20:12.271
I literally can't fucking read it.

01:20:13.088 --> 01:20:14.710
Okay, so we can blow it up.

01:20:15.590 --> 01:20:16.650
Not to be Nietzsche,

01:20:16.850 --> 01:20:17.770
but freedom has been

01:20:17.810 --> 01:20:19.212
reduced minorized to the

01:20:19.252 --> 01:20:20.292
discourse of rights

01:20:20.372 --> 01:20:21.972
pronounced or protected by the state.

01:20:22.393 --> 01:20:24.213
But the first and final

01:20:24.293 --> 01:20:26.635
experience of freedom is dissimulation.

01:20:27.515 --> 01:20:28.076
The lie.

01:20:28.095 --> 01:20:29.796
Keep going.

01:20:31.896 --> 01:20:33.078
The privacy of the lie and

01:20:33.118 --> 01:20:34.479
freedom are indissoluble.

01:20:34.679 --> 01:20:35.639
That's why slaves can

01:20:35.679 --> 01:20:36.760
imagine themselves freer

01:20:36.779 --> 01:20:37.619
than their masters.

01:20:37.880 --> 01:20:39.020
And it's why freedom is not

01:20:39.081 --> 01:20:40.581
necessarily a meaningful

01:20:40.621 --> 01:20:42.002
lodestar for politics.

01:20:45.989 --> 01:20:48.072
I mean, that's a view.

01:20:48.591 --> 01:20:52.253
I think it's quite a nihilistic one.

01:20:52.835 --> 01:20:55.756
Um, sounds exhausting.

01:20:55.777 --> 01:20:57.097
I mean, I don't think it's,

01:20:57.238 --> 01:20:58.878
I don't think I'm,

01:20:58.939 --> 01:21:00.840
I'm a recovering post-modernist.

01:21:00.859 --> 01:21:03.162
So, I mean, I don't,

01:21:03.421 --> 01:21:08.466
I don't disagree with it, but, uh, yeah.

01:21:08.586 --> 01:21:08.706
Yeah.

01:21:09.443 --> 01:21:11.123
Yeah.

01:21:11.144 --> 01:21:11.363
Actually,

01:21:11.384 --> 01:21:12.305
I'm not sure you're a recovering

01:21:12.345 --> 01:21:13.125
postmodernist if you're

01:21:13.145 --> 01:21:15.405
still a hyper-relativist, but whatever.

01:21:16.065 --> 01:21:16.707
That's what happens when you

01:21:16.726 --> 01:21:17.627
do a humanity degree.

01:21:17.947 --> 01:21:19.768
Friends don't let friends do

01:21:19.807 --> 01:21:20.948
humanity degrees because

01:21:20.988 --> 01:21:24.011
you end up just cleverer

01:21:24.030 --> 01:21:26.771
than everybody else, don't you, baby?

01:21:27.311 --> 01:21:27.693
Anyway,

01:21:28.792 --> 01:21:30.373
I think Funky's got the definition down,

01:21:30.413 --> 01:21:30.634
though.

01:21:30.713 --> 01:21:31.173
Look at that.

01:21:31.854 --> 01:21:36.197
I thought shit coins go on shit chains.

01:21:37.694 --> 01:21:38.854
No, I don't think so.

01:21:38.875 --> 01:21:40.536
Touchdown, the crowd goes wild.

01:21:40.916 --> 01:21:44.256
I don't think so, though.

01:21:44.275 --> 01:21:46.277
Does it present you with a counter-thesis,

01:21:46.296 --> 01:21:47.296
Giuseppe?

01:21:47.417 --> 01:21:48.356
I think there are Venn

01:21:48.377 --> 01:21:49.936
diagrams where they don't

01:21:50.037 --> 01:21:50.976
entirely overlap.

01:21:50.997 --> 01:21:54.177
I think they're shit coins on good chains.

01:21:56.478 --> 01:21:57.097
Okay, right,

01:21:57.118 --> 01:21:57.917
because you could have a

01:21:58.439 --> 01:22:00.378
CW-Twenty or an ERC-Twenty, right?

01:22:01.038 --> 01:22:01.599
Not only just that,

01:22:01.618 --> 01:22:02.639
but I think there's... Shit

01:22:02.658 --> 01:22:04.699
chain to me means... Well, see,

01:22:04.739 --> 01:22:05.560
this is a weird definition.

01:22:05.579 --> 01:22:06.659
I don't have to wait for it, but...

01:22:07.300 --> 01:22:07.452
Yeah.

01:22:08.868 --> 01:22:10.189
I'll go to the ethics board.

01:22:10.429 --> 01:22:12.829
We did another research project.

01:22:13.250 --> 01:22:14.149
It's like, Frey,

01:22:14.170 --> 01:22:15.930
are you ever going to write any software?

01:22:16.030 --> 01:22:17.011
I thought the whole point is

01:22:17.030 --> 01:22:17.650
you're an engineer.

01:22:19.390 --> 01:22:21.072
Somebody pointed out we

01:22:21.091 --> 01:22:22.131
didn't define shit chains.

01:22:22.612 --> 01:22:24.271
We've got to do a paper on it.

01:22:24.292 --> 01:22:25.391
We've got to do a fucking paper on it.

01:22:25.452 --> 01:22:26.773
It's going to take six months.

01:22:27.353 --> 01:22:28.092
We're not going to write any

01:22:28.113 --> 01:22:28.893
code during this time.

01:22:28.912 --> 01:22:30.734
We've got to interview more people.

01:22:31.134 --> 01:22:31.734
We've got to really get

01:22:31.774 --> 01:22:34.514
consensus on what a shit chain really is.

01:22:34.533 --> 01:22:36.055
Usurper's got one definition.

01:22:36.135 --> 01:22:37.435
Funky's got one definition.

01:22:38.301 --> 01:22:40.323
Who are these people you're talking about?

01:22:40.342 --> 01:22:41.563
You can't interview people you know.

01:22:41.582 --> 01:22:43.443
I can't bring any examples to the table.

01:22:44.143 --> 01:22:45.404
I think there are good chains that have,

01:22:45.543 --> 01:22:45.963
unfortunately,

01:22:45.984 --> 01:22:47.423
some really bad shit coins on them.

01:22:48.885 --> 01:22:49.005
Yeah.

01:22:49.024 --> 01:22:51.125
What's a good chain with a shit coin?

01:22:51.145 --> 01:22:51.944
I don't want to do that.

01:22:51.966 --> 01:22:53.386
You don't want to do that?

01:22:53.405 --> 01:22:56.667
I don't want to do that.

01:22:56.686 --> 01:22:59.186
I don't want to do that.

01:22:59.567 --> 01:23:00.408
You have to pull that from

01:23:00.427 --> 01:23:00.847
your transcripts.

01:23:00.868 --> 01:23:02.627
You have to pull it from your transcripts.

01:23:03.268 --> 01:23:04.149
Honestly, I can't think of it.

01:23:04.208 --> 01:23:05.509
Maybe we'll take it as a homework item.

01:23:06.225 --> 01:23:07.467
And would there be good

01:23:07.507 --> 01:23:08.609
coins on shit chains?

01:23:09.310 --> 01:23:10.453
That would be another one too.

01:23:10.573 --> 01:23:12.756
Cause shit chain might not

01:23:12.796 --> 01:23:13.779
be just a financial aspect.

01:23:13.798 --> 01:23:14.359
It might be the actual.

01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:15.421
Well, they had how long do you know?

01:23:15.442 --> 01:23:16.523
That was a pretty great coin

01:23:16.542 --> 01:23:19.649
on a pretty bad high value.

01:23:20.390 --> 01:23:22.030
high value speculars of

01:23:22.110 --> 01:23:24.332
asset that was no no it was

01:23:24.351 --> 01:23:25.393
a utility token of course

01:23:25.432 --> 01:23:26.333
but for legal purposes um

01:23:27.774 --> 01:23:29.775
no value certainly got no

01:23:29.815 --> 01:23:32.657
value now uh so certainly

01:23:32.697 --> 01:23:35.479
not certainly not ah that

01:23:35.498 --> 01:23:37.079
was a fun idea I wish it

01:23:37.100 --> 01:23:39.280
had been launched on a

01:23:39.320 --> 01:23:41.162
chain that had more you had

01:23:41.203 --> 01:23:44.264
your chance yeah wow

01:23:44.323 --> 01:23:45.564
complete reworking of your

01:23:45.604 --> 01:23:46.706
life for two or three years

01:23:48.300 --> 01:23:48.659
Yeah.

01:23:49.341 --> 01:23:50.082
I mean,

01:23:50.101 --> 01:23:52.583
I still think that idea has legs even now,

01:23:52.884 --> 01:23:53.805
even if it's a year later,

01:23:53.824 --> 01:23:54.604
a year and a half later,

01:23:54.666 --> 01:23:56.606
I still think it'd be tough

01:23:56.646 --> 01:23:57.948
to rebuild and it'd be tough to,

01:23:59.409 --> 01:24:03.153
to get it working on, um, you know, to,

01:24:03.212 --> 01:24:04.634
to, to get to that critical mass.

01:24:04.654 --> 01:24:05.154
I don't know if you could

01:24:05.175 --> 01:24:06.314
actually build a social

01:24:06.355 --> 01:24:07.636
network with critical mass these days,

01:24:07.676 --> 01:24:09.078
but, but, um,

01:24:11.646 --> 01:24:13.087
But it would solve some issues.

01:24:14.408 --> 01:24:14.748
Yeah.

01:24:14.889 --> 01:24:15.088
I mean,

01:24:15.149 --> 01:24:17.270
I think the thing to do would be to

01:24:17.331 --> 01:24:19.091
rebuild it.

01:24:19.412 --> 01:24:20.372
The thing is, people will.

01:24:20.412 --> 01:24:21.854
Because the reason that

01:24:21.894 --> 01:24:23.234
Twitter existed is because

01:24:23.255 --> 01:24:24.315
it's the most obvious way

01:24:24.355 --> 01:24:26.237
of doing a single-shot broadcast.

01:24:30.453 --> 01:24:31.673
like broadcast-based message

01:24:31.694 --> 01:24:33.494
dissemination on like a

01:24:33.595 --> 01:24:34.595
simple internet platform

01:24:34.916 --> 01:24:36.216
originally via mobile phone, right?

01:24:36.237 --> 01:24:36.676
That was the point.

01:24:36.697 --> 01:24:39.057
And how, you know,

01:24:39.137 --> 01:24:40.259
other than staking mechanics,

01:24:40.298 --> 01:24:42.840
which like whatever, like it's an extra,

01:24:42.899 --> 01:24:44.720
like what's the meme?

01:24:45.140 --> 01:24:47.082
It's just blah, but with extra steps.

01:24:47.122 --> 01:24:48.563
Like it's just that.

01:24:48.622 --> 01:24:50.083
Like it's not like big brain.

01:24:50.644 --> 01:24:52.244
But I kind of wonder if like

01:24:52.645 --> 01:24:53.506
the thing to do would be to

01:24:53.546 --> 01:24:57.087
like wait maybe like one

01:24:57.488 --> 01:24:58.908
generation of blockchains.

01:25:01.163 --> 01:25:01.885
and then do it then.

01:25:02.444 --> 01:25:03.746
Because you could implement

01:25:03.786 --> 01:25:05.667
it in move on Aptos or

01:25:05.686 --> 01:25:06.266
something like that,

01:25:06.287 --> 01:25:07.067
where you've got the

01:25:07.146 --> 01:25:09.127
performance and you've got the low fees.

01:25:09.207 --> 01:25:10.109
And I think actually there's

01:25:10.208 --> 01:25:10.769
a number of things about

01:25:10.788 --> 01:25:12.090
the protocol are better

01:25:12.130 --> 01:25:13.489
than your average proof of stake chain.

01:25:15.011 --> 01:25:16.351
But it still doesn't have the users.

01:25:17.912 --> 01:25:18.932
Although to be fair,

01:25:19.412 --> 01:25:22.635
there is going to be the

01:25:22.795 --> 01:25:24.655
OAuth stuff at some point,

01:25:25.655 --> 01:25:26.475
which would actually be a

01:25:26.536 --> 01:25:27.417
pretty good mechanism

01:25:28.145 --> 01:25:31.832
Because you could basically

01:25:31.851 --> 01:25:33.274
do semi-blinded messages,

01:25:33.434 --> 01:25:35.898
which would be... For all

01:25:35.938 --> 01:25:37.060
practical intents and purposes,

01:25:37.621 --> 01:25:40.364
you could do blinded messages for like...

01:25:43.626 --> 01:25:45.106
It would really, yeah.

01:25:45.127 --> 01:25:46.067
Some scenarios,

01:25:46.287 --> 01:25:48.667
which could be interesting.

01:25:48.688 --> 01:25:49.509
That would be interesting

01:25:49.529 --> 01:25:50.569
because you get rid of all that,

01:25:51.229 --> 01:25:52.329
just all that friction that

01:25:52.550 --> 01:25:54.871
I think that Hal had, right?

01:25:54.890 --> 01:25:57.171
With just transactions and like just that,

01:25:57.692 --> 01:25:58.893
at least it was, for me,

01:25:59.233 --> 01:26:01.934
it had a lot of steps, right?

01:26:02.274 --> 01:26:03.154
And that would be nice to get rid of.

01:26:04.435 --> 01:26:05.796
But I think the identity issue,

01:26:06.555 --> 01:26:07.497
the identity issue is

01:26:07.516 --> 01:26:08.396
really the problem to solve

01:26:08.436 --> 01:26:09.216
within social networks.

01:26:09.237 --> 01:26:10.318
I mean, that's really the issue.

01:26:11.186 --> 01:26:12.627
But now maybe you could

01:26:12.667 --> 01:26:13.988
point this Coinbase AI at it.

01:26:15.068 --> 01:26:15.228
Well,

01:26:15.268 --> 01:26:17.148
I think the identity issue is

01:26:17.228 --> 01:26:18.809
actually better solved by

01:26:18.868 --> 01:26:20.029
something like the digital

01:26:20.048 --> 01:26:21.529
cash architecture because

01:26:21.748 --> 01:26:23.288
cash is an identity problem as well.

01:26:24.829 --> 01:26:25.729
So I think what you do is

01:26:25.770 --> 01:26:27.649
you solve for digital cash

01:26:27.869 --> 01:26:31.150
and you make a identity

01:26:31.270 --> 01:26:33.230
provider where you can

01:26:33.270 --> 01:26:34.332
basically selectively

01:26:34.391 --> 01:26:36.971
reveal the minimum possible

01:26:37.032 --> 01:26:38.131
thing about a really

01:26:38.212 --> 01:26:40.092
short-term lifecycle.

01:26:42.327 --> 01:26:43.887
single shot self-contained

01:26:43.927 --> 01:26:45.829
state asset that only

01:26:45.869 --> 01:26:46.890
contains cryptographic

01:26:46.930 --> 01:26:48.051
proof of the thing that

01:26:48.070 --> 01:26:49.692
you've said and you write

01:26:49.712 --> 01:26:51.273
the proof only to ephemeral

01:26:51.313 --> 01:26:54.114
storage um admittedly a

01:26:54.175 --> 01:26:56.256
relay network so the way

01:26:56.277 --> 01:26:57.398
you have a relay or network

01:26:57.417 --> 01:26:58.618
is you have like data

01:26:58.639 --> 01:27:00.260
dissemination among a

01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:01.541
network of nodes that still

01:27:01.581 --> 01:27:02.881
only have ephemeral storage

01:27:03.462 --> 01:27:05.222
and the proof that it was

01:27:05.243 --> 01:27:06.823
at some point in the tree

01:27:07.704 --> 01:27:08.685
is then persisted to a

01:27:08.725 --> 01:27:09.886
blockchain but only that

01:27:09.966 --> 01:27:10.845
that evidence is only

01:27:10.945 --> 01:27:12.346
meaningful if you have the

01:27:12.386 --> 01:27:13.587
combination of the relayer

01:27:13.806 --> 01:27:15.887
that relayed the data and

01:27:15.908 --> 01:27:18.349
you are the owner so it's

01:27:18.408 --> 01:27:20.149
never actually once it's

01:27:20.168 --> 01:27:21.229
recycled it's gone it can't

01:27:21.250 --> 01:27:22.270
be interacted with anymore

01:27:22.329 --> 01:27:23.350
so that there's a there's a

01:27:23.411 --> 01:27:24.530
version of that where you

01:27:24.570 --> 01:27:27.631
can do the more privacy

01:27:27.851 --> 01:27:30.113
oriented stuff for actually

01:27:30.153 --> 01:27:31.233
like revealing a real

01:27:31.313 --> 01:27:32.474
identity like here is my

01:27:32.514 --> 01:27:33.713
driving license and here is

01:27:33.753 --> 01:27:34.994
the number on it right yeah

01:27:36.238 --> 01:27:38.039
but then once you have that

01:27:38.079 --> 01:27:38.880
level of privacy there's

01:27:38.920 --> 01:27:39.720
nothing to stop you saying

01:27:39.740 --> 01:27:41.301
like I am going to use that

01:27:41.381 --> 01:27:44.465
plus an api which sure this

01:27:44.484 --> 01:27:45.364
would need a lot of work

01:27:45.425 --> 01:27:46.746
you don't just wake up one

01:27:46.805 --> 01:27:47.426
morning and build this

01:27:47.466 --> 01:27:49.408
granted but once you have

01:27:49.427 --> 01:27:50.529
that proof of identity you

01:27:50.548 --> 01:27:51.329
can build an api that

01:27:51.369 --> 01:27:52.251
interacts with it say like

01:27:52.331 --> 01:27:54.192
okay well given that I am

01:27:54.231 --> 01:27:55.453
prepared to say in this

01:27:55.493 --> 01:27:56.713
other context I will sign a

01:27:56.734 --> 01:27:58.756
message using public key or

01:27:58.836 --> 01:28:00.077
even anonymously right like

01:28:00.176 --> 01:28:01.358
you could even do it a way to be like

01:28:01.938 --> 01:28:03.019
right there are a whole

01:28:03.038 --> 01:28:03.779
bunch of ways that you

01:28:03.798 --> 01:28:04.760
could interact in that way

01:28:04.819 --> 01:28:06.541
but I think yeah I think

01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:07.542
solving digital cash and

01:28:07.962 --> 01:28:09.422
solving identity are like

01:28:09.802 --> 01:28:13.265
um they're pretty important

01:28:13.286 --> 01:28:14.506
things I don't necessarily

01:28:14.546 --> 01:28:16.346
think that the best

01:28:16.427 --> 01:28:17.387
architectures are going to

01:28:17.608 --> 01:28:19.710
be like widely deployed and

01:28:19.729 --> 01:28:22.612
accessible anytime soon

01:28:22.652 --> 01:28:23.591
because there's so many

01:28:23.712 --> 01:28:26.314
steps involved in making them work right

01:28:27.327 --> 01:28:28.507
And like the network effects

01:28:28.528 --> 01:28:29.529
of actually even onboarding

01:28:29.548 --> 01:28:30.970
people is super complicated

01:28:31.010 --> 01:28:34.011
to like even get users to care about it.

01:28:34.192 --> 01:28:35.353
So you,

01:28:35.412 --> 01:28:36.373
I think that's the point where

01:28:36.394 --> 01:28:36.854
you're right.

01:28:36.894 --> 01:28:37.854
You build the thing,

01:28:38.354 --> 01:28:39.275
like you build a version of

01:28:39.315 --> 01:28:40.676
like the broadcast

01:28:41.858 --> 01:28:44.019
mechanism as a reason to

01:28:44.100 --> 01:28:45.820
onboard users into the ID system.

01:28:47.765 --> 01:28:48.667
And it's like the first use

01:28:48.686 --> 01:28:49.487
case or whatever.

01:28:49.828 --> 01:28:51.469
Well, first to get there,

01:28:51.509 --> 01:28:52.368
you got to work backwards

01:28:52.469 --> 01:28:54.390
to digital cash structure.

01:28:54.411 --> 01:28:56.452
You got to work backwards to this PhD.

01:28:56.912 --> 01:28:59.634
You got to work backwards to defining the,

01:28:59.873 --> 01:29:01.034
you know, what a shit chain is.

01:29:01.815 --> 01:29:02.416
Yeah, exactly.

01:29:02.877 --> 01:29:03.237
Which is,

01:29:03.337 --> 01:29:05.217
which is why that's what I'll be doing.

01:29:05.478 --> 01:29:06.679
First thing when I get up tomorrow morning,

01:29:07.439 --> 01:29:08.900
writing a new ethics application,

01:29:10.020 --> 01:29:12.363
the cosmos ecosystem, colon,

01:29:12.643 --> 01:29:15.664
a classification of shit.