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and just make a million dollars or whatever. And you just like, the fucking scale is just so off.

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You just get so fucking twisted.

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Yeah, but that 20k is 20k here. And the other one is not here yet. And if it helps in the

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future, like if it's a good thing for downstream, then yes. If it's not a good thing for downstream,

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then no. I mean, yeah, probably. Like I say, I'm the fucking problem here. Like the chemistry fit is

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that I am the problem. And that is just what I do in reference. I do references all the time for

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people. But when I when people ask me for them, I give them names, I do not give them contact

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numbers. And I say, Listen, I'm only going to ask this person to vouch for me twice a year. And

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you need to you and I'm not sure if you're worth one of those two. So like, if that's so smart,

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it's totally true, right? Because like, like if somebody's going to spend take time out of their

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day and say, Hey, you know, like, Ryder does a good job and blah, blah, blah. Like that's a big

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ask for somebody to take time out to do that, right? And like to be able to spend that time.

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So I'm not calling in that. I'm not calling in that favor more than once or twice every year.

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Like no matter what. And so prove to me that this opportunity is worth that call, because

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otherwise I'm not going to waste their time. That's that's it in a nutshell, right? There's

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some conversations where you're pitching somebody and there's some conversations where somebody

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is pitching you, right? And yeah, it's difficult when the other party doesn't realize that they're

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pitching you. Sometimes you have those conversations, right? And they're difficult,

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because you're just like, Oh, well, that that that that's on you because because

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maybe that's also an age thing because not not maybe that's maybe that's also

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not you. Yeah, I've already said I have the problem. We just have a little possible doubt

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that I have the problem in this situation. Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast

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from independent validator teams. Hello, and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from

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independent validator teams still trucking in this, what are we, second year of persistent bear

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market. We will keep broadcasting until price action continues. I was actually listening to a

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a poddo earlier on essentially the continued degradation of living stands for the middle

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class in Western economies, because obviously that's that's that's my kink. And there was an

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interesting aside there, right, where they were talking to asset traders. And apparently, and

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essentially, the thesis is very, very obvious, right, which is that when interest rates fall,

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there are going to need to be because of it, because of increasing inequality, people are

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looking for a place to put asset based wealth. And so there are going to be a variety of asset

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classes that are going to benefit from that. So I mean, kind of like, I think Null was saying

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this the other day, in fact, I feel like this is an, like, I, like, I'm not saying the Null

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isn't clever, right? And doesn't, isn't correct quite bit of the time. But like, I was essentially,

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I think what the story I'm trying to tell in a nutshell here is right. I was listening to

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I was listening to a podcast with very, very clever people. And they said a thing that Null has

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already said several times on this podcast. And I was like, huh, I haven't thought of that before,

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even though I've been told it several times, and I was like, I was like, I should tell Null that I

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have in the light of literally just listening to some experts reconsidered his thoughts on whether

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or not there will be some kind of a bull run after interest rates change. Do you feel like you're

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just talking to a ball of jello? I'm a slow learner. I mean, we've established this over time.

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Now that we've talked, I've talked to someone or listened to someone that may or may not actually

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know anything more than you. I actually can now be confirmed by someone I respect. Is it the

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accent? I don't know what it's something, right? I'm just saying that like somebody who has a

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British accent and a doctor. There's guys that's utterly more British, I'd better believe.

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Yeah, they said some very specific targeted data points about about economies that I happen to

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know something about, not Australia. And so I was like, Hey, okay, cool, this makes sense. I can

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This gentleman didn't prefix his conversation with IMO.

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He has that. Anyway, that's that. Yeah, well, you know.

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So I mean, maybe we will be back, baby. Did anybody else see the insanity that happened

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in the women's tour de France the other day? Isn't that over? Yeah, it's just finished.

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It was the only sports I've heard of recently is break dancing in Australia.

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What's your face? Oh, yeah, oh, Ray Gunn, man.

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She's so fly. What's the story with that? So she was like a this is the first time that's

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ever been in the Olympics, right? And also the last time, I think I believe that it is now being

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canceled from the Olympics because it's dumb. Well, some somebody told me that somebody told me

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that the host country gets to pick some sports or some some items that only that they can push

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forward to be included. Is that what it is? Yeah, that's what I've been doing in last time. Yeah.

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So break dancing like probably rather watch keg throwing like, yeah. Well, did you did you watch

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the break dancing at the Olympics? Just just just really short. Just watch the replays. I watched

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the women's final and I went into it being like, this could be fucking cringe. And okay, there

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one thing was cringe, right? And I'm sorry, I'm fucking literally really old as well. So this

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is like super lame. I'm like a man and I'm super old and like uncle. But one of the two ladies that

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was facing off in the final was wearing like a little scarf thing. And I was like, that scarf

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is kind of lame. This big cringe, whatever, I have literally no right to say that that was my only

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that was the only thing. And but then they actually did the thing. And I was like, this is

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actually really genuinely gymnastically quite fucking impressive. There was like this piece of

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though they're doing they're like going to piece music. And there was like a really distinctive

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like, you know, a lot of these things have like that kind of 808, like way it wasn't a 28. I mean,

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it might have been an old school drum machine of some kind, maybe it's not important what

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drum machine is. Don't get into that. Right. Come on. The point was that there was a syncopated,

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you know, stab on the up as is very, very common in almost any breakbeat, hip hop, funk, soul,

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blood of jazz, even tech metal, right? Very, very common to ride on the upbeat. And they were doing

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like a thing where they were specifically moving their feet in a pattern that always kept one of

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their feet on the down one of their feet on the up. And I was like, given that they're improvising,

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that I mean, that's just that's attention to deal, man. Like I got to respect that shit. Like,

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if you were a drummer, I mean, that would be a given actually, because you have to move your feet

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in a particular because one is the hat, one of them is the kick, right? But ignore that I've

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just said something really stupid there. It was just like very, very, very far than it needs to go.

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It was just very, very, very gymnastic and very well coordinated. And I was like, fair enough

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fucking respect. Like, it's just like watching a video of a really great drummer on YouTube.

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And you're just like, damn, they're really killing this drum part. It's a different thing.

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I don't know. I went into it having pretty high expectations to break dancing because I think

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break dancing is really cool. And I actually took a break dancing class when I was in like fourth

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grade. I'll have you know, in fourth grade. And yet you went to the limit this time ready to fight.

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I know what happened. You're finally going to break good with that 20 years of practice.

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What's right? That's I know. I'm ashamed. And yeah, I was I was let down. I've definitely seen

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like random YouTube videos of some kid on the street. That's like six and a half pulling cooler

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moves than what I saw at the Olympics. So are they doing like, are they doing like

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other parades for Rachel gun at home or like what's going on down there?

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There are no parades. No, I didn't. So she didn't get a point.

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No, like she got 18 018 018 0 she got she got actually pulled she that's knocked out.

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I believe she got like maybe some sponsorships and stuff though, like coming out of it. Yeah.

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I think I think she's done pretty well out of it. That's just

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yeah, it's total here. I don't know anything specifically.

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She has like a PhD and she does. Yeah. Doesn't she?

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Wow. And that breaks it. I think it's other girls. I mean, cultural studies and which is like,

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okay, break dance. Like, you know, you hear I've heard just a bunch of stuff like

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her husband ran the fucking, you know, competition or whatever that she had to win to

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fucking get in the Olympics. Does a random shit like that. I don't know if any of it's true.

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But that's just, you know, the words on the street that I hear, you know,

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being an Aussie not watching the news ever because I fucking hate it.

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So, you know, just random shorts on like YouTube or whatever that I might see

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or someone talking near me. Oh, did you hear Reagan's fucking husband was running the competition

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that she wanted to get into the Olympics? I'm like, you know, they give a fuck.

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It's got some style and I'm over here. No one computer shit.

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Yeah. Just got some style on there. So, yeah, you know, a bit of a bump in the prices, boys.

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Just was doing something else over here and got distracted. And I noticed that there is

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not insignificant rise in the prices overnight for me. Well, we cashed out some stuff the other day.

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So that was jamming. Very due. Oh, you picked the bottom. Yeah. I do my part in a in a

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market downturn. I sell my bags at the bottom for everybody else to be able to profit off.

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It's very important somebody take the hit for the team. That's like, how much general policy on

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that. Yeah. It's your it's your turn to, you know, take the hit before I hit last.

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Right. I experienced shilty land last night getting woken up no less than eight fucking times last

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night by the pager duty. I love, you know, one, one thing that seems to fuck me in the

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been in this time zone is that people just love to fucking mess around with shit during the day

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over in the States, which is my fucking nighttime. Nothing ever happens when I'm awake. It's always

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when I'm asleep. They're like, Oh, fuck, Null's going to sleep. Let's fuck with this test net now.

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Make it stop. Dude, he getting a walk. He getting woken up because of test net.

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Ah, man, it's like, I gotta, I gotta make a new tag and then not get alerted from the tag. But

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ah, dude, I barely even get alerts on test net shit. Please stop nerdnecking straighten

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that back and next sit. Why are you so far away from the microphone when I do that?

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Why have you got any notifications on a test net? Because yeah, responsible,

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you know, you gotta have some notification. The node is fully stopped. That's it.

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Not three years. That's what was happening. It's just stall warnings.

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Yeah, but still, what it has to be a chain hold.

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Do you want the X? What happened? Yeah, just kept fucking stopping last night.

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Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. Yeah, I'll get past. What were they doing?

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Yeah. Look, man, I, I for for chains that we care about, I will care about their test

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node as well. So yeah, but you probably get alerts, the same alerts on all test net nodes, right?

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Yeah, I am going to put a tag. I'm going to put a tag. There's like, no, it's because

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we're professionals like, but you have the important ones and the unimportant ones. No. Well, tag,

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give a shit. sympathy level decreasing rapidly. Hashtag, give a shit. I have got a fucking list

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of shit to do. And that should be on the top of it. He shows an empty piece of paper. I have a

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four less. This is the back of the note pad. I can't show you the front of the note pad. The front of it says

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battery fucking it, you know, salad, dildo batteries, fucking salad spork,

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fashion salad spork out of yardstick. No, it's in those are classic mnemonic words on they like

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alarm, salad, battery, whatever party. The joke was you turn around the fucking pad and your

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mnemonics on it. There we are. Sorry. Fuck it. I'm tired. I trouble. Oh, the mnemonic right.

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There we go. Right. Okay. Happy days. Jesus. Anyway, what is nerdnecking? Is it? Is this nerdnecking?

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I don't know. It's a new term. I didn't know that. Apparently you're nerdnecking. It's happening.

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I, there's there's no, I need, there's no real way to have my mic boom thing on this table,

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the way it's set up. So I've got it on like a stand and how do you have the edge? Do you have an edge

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of a table? Tables got four edges. Yeah. Yeah. So you can put a, you can put a boom. Yeah. But then

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it's constantly in my way. I've got a wall right next to it. So it can't let me show you this.

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Going to blow your mind. Right. One second. Fuck that seemed to have taken a lot of effort to move.

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It did. Those who are listening, the Frage is very slowly fucking moved his camera off the scene.

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Boom mic. Well, so the only reason I had to move it slowly is because as established,

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I'm in the loft, right? And if you move it quickly, all that happens is you take another

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chip out of the paintwork. They're all above my desk here from all of like stuff. You just,

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you know, when you put your laptop on the stand and you get, you get back from the office and you

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just stuff the laptop on the stand, but you're not very careful. You just whack the wall.

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There's literally, there's literally a dent in the wall here, which is my not being very

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fucking careful with my laptop stand. And there's like the corner of the MacBook is literally almost

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like, and it's kind of like discolored from the, the plaster, I guess it's like, it's fucked anyway.

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And so I just trying to be a bit, I was trying to be a bit careful rather than just go like smack

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in one go and just take another fucking chunk out of the ceiling. Like it's already missing chunks.

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I assume there's dramatic effect. Like you already have to do some repair. Why not do a lot of repair?

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Yeah, probably true. I didn't need to, I didn't need to fix a little hole there as well,

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which I caused by just, you know, when you go like that and you're not paying attention,

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I just like punched the fucking ceiling, hurt my hand and somehow I actually dislodged a bit of the

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thingy. You're really feeling within touching space? Yeah, he's in the attic. He's in the

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fucking attic. Wow. I mean, I know that. I just didn't realize that it was like,

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knowing how tall you are, I didn't realize you would have to enter that, enter it like

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hunting, like crawling forward. Oh yeah, just realized you don't, you've not,

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you've not seen my house. So this doesn't make, in fact, none of you have. So this doesn't make

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any sense. But yeah, the laptop here is literally, so that I'm now touching the wall and touching the

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top of the laptop. It's the mirror of what we see behind you. Yeah. So it's like the wall comes

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down here just behind the laptop. And the desk comes like way out. So like, the perspective is

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super weird because of the wide angle camera, but there's, there's like, I don't know, two foot

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between the camera and me. So it's like, it's a way bigger space than it looks like, but the

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laptop is proper jammed right up in the corner. So is it a cathedral, cathedral ceiling where it

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just goes like arcs, like an A frame all the way up, or does it level out at some point to a flat

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top? It's just, it's just a peak roof. It's a classic European. It is literally the rafters

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aligned to make a ceiling. Yeah. Hopefully it's got some, yeah. Well, I mean, exactly the beam,

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the beam is behind the plaster just here, I guess. The rafters. The rafters. No, the rafters,

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well, I thought the rafters are the cross beams, not the support beams. Those bits are the rafters.

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Are they? I always thought they were the, the crossy ones. The joists, the ceiling joists.

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Well, the joists are under the floor, aren't they? Well, they're floor joists when there's floor on

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there. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We're agree. We're agree. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool.

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The building podcast. So funky says you can also turn up the game on your mic and funky,

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you don't want that. If I turn up the game, game on my mic, you're just going to hear echoes. So

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when they'll came, it's not that kind of like you have to be like around it. Anyway, sorry,

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you're fucking wrong. It's a proximity microphone, right? It's a broadcast mic, right?

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Yeah, broadcast. And, you know, I've got the studios. So if, you know, if you turn up the

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game too much, you're going to hear an echo from those, I guess. Yeah. I mean, you could get,

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I guess the other way of doing it would be to like get a pop shield and a cadenza and then you

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could, you could then bring down the background noise. Well, okay, we're over complicating

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things at this point. Sorry. What you should do is buy a boom. I own one. It's on the table back

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there. Well, then unpack it and set it up, my good man. Do you want me to do that right now?

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Yeah. Yeah. We're sitting here. What else? We got a little stuck about.

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I mean, get on that. Well, there's a bunch of news and obviously, you know, well, none of you

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seen the tour de France. So, you know, it's, it's, it was really close. It was down to four

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seconds. Like grand tours don't come down to four seconds. That's crazy stuff. Nobody cares.

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You said that. It's very important. It was, it was lost by the favourite because their team

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betrayed them. What do you mean? Well, they, they, they had a minor crash and their team didn't go

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back for them to bring them back to the peloton. They lost a minute and that's the difference

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between winning and losing. So, you mean like the support truck? Like the other riders.

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Why would, what would the other riders do? What does that mean? Yeah. Well,

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you're, if you're, if your leader goes down, the other riders on your team,

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stop whatever the fuck they're doing. If they're like in contention to win a stage or something,

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they stop what they're doing. They go back to do what? Get the leader and fucking get riden.

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Like they swap bikes or something. What do you mean? Well, you, you, you, you basically do a,

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do a multi person uptime trial to get them back to the peloton because the peloton is moving at

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60 kilometers an hour and an individual rider can do 40, 50. Oh, you mean like, like to, to be,

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like where they do the thing where they in the row and then they have the,

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it's me in the back goes to the front and like you just draft to get like to increase speed.

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Yeah. Which is, it's like, it's like what 30 to 40% less effort to draft. So the, the peloton,

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which is, you know, the group of like 50 riders, 60 riders, whatever, they're doing like 60 kilometers

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an hour. And if you crash and then you're trying to catch that back up, it's not physically possible,

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right? So you're just going to lose a lot of time. That's what happened. They didn't go back for their

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leader, even though they were the favorite for the prohibitive favorite for the race.

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Is there, is there a, but, but the winner is individual, right? Not a team?

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Individual. Are there team, are there team points as well? Like,

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is it like F1 where you like, like, oh yeah, yeah, there's like a, there's team standings

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for the overall season. And then each grand tour also has a quickest overall team, but it's not

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prestigious. Okay. So that's like F1, right? Okay. So then, so then, but, but you will say,

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if you say like, oh, so and so wins, you would always say, oh, so and so from X team wins because

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it's not sure it's not really possible to win as a solo effort because of the physics of the sport,

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which is somebody, Peloton's drafting. So somebody crashed the rest of the team said,

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fuck it, let's keep going because they weren't feeling can be able to catch up.

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Well, no, that's just it. Nobody fucking knows. And the team, it's such a big fuck up, like it's

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an unprecedented level fuck up that the team has said nothing. They said nothing about it on the

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day. And they've said nothing about it. Why is it a fuck up though? How many people around the team?

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Like six or seven. So if one, so if you lose 13% who gives a shit, like then the other six go win,

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right? What does it matter? No, because they can't win. It's like, that's not how it works.

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Oh, do they all have to cross the line for a team? No, it's for points.

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And one person wins, right? Your GC winner wins because they are the strongest overall rider.

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They have to be good at all because they're highest and I got you. I got you. I got you.

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Yeah. So if you're the favorite for the entire race, you're already in the yellow jersey and you

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crash, your team goes, the person in the yellow jersey is crashed. You stop riding, you bring them

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back to the peloton. And then, then you continue shenanigans, do whatever you want. Yeah. Instead,

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they just kept fucking riding. So that actually happens where they stop and let them join back

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in for like, for the race. That's a whole thing and catch back up, right? Because the point is

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that the team is supporting this whoever's in the lead. Exactly. To be okay. I got you. It's

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always one team riding together for the person who has the best chance on the team, right? And if

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you're in the yellow jersey, right, you are literally the race leader. If the race leader

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goes down and you're just chilling in the peloton, riding probably less than your threshold power,

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just motoring along 60 kilometers an hour and somebody says over the radio, hey, our leaders

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crashed. You don't just go like, yeah, I guess I'll just, I'll just keep chilling here till the end

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of the race. Not even, not even attack, not even do anything. I'm just going to chill until I cross

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the finish line. You would be like, I'm just going to pull over to the side of the road and

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wait for them to catch up and then I'll give them some help catching back on the very least.

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Like it's, it's absolutely unheard of. Absolutely madness. So, so the team that

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betrayed their leader got in second, was it the person that crashed that got in second or was it

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one of the, one of the team members? Second. So it was the person that crashed came,

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they came second by four seconds despite losing like a minute 50 or two minutes or something

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on that stage. So they absolutely hauled balls then is what you're saying. They absolutely

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demolished. So that day they were fucked. They crossed the line like behind everybody. It was

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a total shambles. You know, they, it was a, it was a complete shambles, but they just

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demolished the entire field in the mountains, but it just wasn't enough. So, you know,

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okay, so the overall they got second. Okay. Now it's starting to make more sense because it's,

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it's the aggregate. You want them to speed back up because you still want to get them in first.

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Got it. Now it's all coming in.

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The overall time for the entire mileage of the race, right? So every, every second counts basically.

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Okay. Yeah. So that, that's pretty egregious. That's insane.

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Yeah. They literally just went like, Hey, we've got millions of euros in sponsorship or what?

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Ever. Should we maybe go and get the person in the most prestigious Jersey and bring them back

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to the group? They're just like, nah, we're happy here. We're just going to chill.

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That's story. They didn't even win the stage either. That was the crazy thing. They like,

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it was like, Oh, they're going to try for the stage. Is there some like grand plan has not been

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communicated or their radio's down? And it just like kind of was like, whatever, man. It was just,

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it was just bizarre. Like it was one of the most bizarre things. It was like, it's like the equivalent

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of F1. Somebody being like, I think I hear a rattle. I'm going to pull the car over and just

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get out and check the tires or something. Like it, it's that level of like, you're like,

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that's not how tactics work in this sport. They haven't worked in that's, what?

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What? Yeah. So anyway, that was that, that's, that's some news this week. That's the only thing

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I can think of that's really happened this week other than continuing ICS shenanigans, right?

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That story almost got me over the hump of giving a shit about cycling.

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Yeah. It's like halfway. It was like a halfway the night. Then I rolled back. Yeah.

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You should have, you should have gone to the, you should have gone to the women's

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when you're in Paris. The Americans won it. It was a big upset. It was really funny.

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It doesn't, but that's like, I mean, that, that literally is like watching marathons. Like you're

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staying in one spot and then people walk, they roll past you and like, who gives a shit?

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Yeah. But the race winning attack happened on Montmartre, which they did three times. So you

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could stood on it and seeing them go past and you would have seen, you would have seen the attack.

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Amazing. So, I mean, but yeah, it's like, it's like whatever, man. I appreciate it. It's a,

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it's a fucking lame sport. Well, to be honest, I didn't know there was that much strategy associated

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to like the team structure because that's actually a little bit more interesting where

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similar to F1 where it's a team, but it's also individuals. And so you have competition within

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a team, but also competition between teams and also competition individually.

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That does create some interesting situations that have blown up in ridiculous situations.

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Yeah. I mean, there's a reason that they, the people who, so Netflix, you know, commissioned

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the Tour de France documentary that has been aired over the, about the last two series of the men's

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because they were like people who like F1 because of the extended tactics that play out over a season

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will probably enjoy a three week bike race where internal and external politics, nutrition,

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distance, team dynamics, personalities, all plays out in a really chaotic way. Like,

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and it's been a smash hit. So, you know, there's, they were obviously right about that. And there's

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a lot of similarities between F1 and cycling obviously, because it's all marginal gains, right?

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Like tiny, tiny increments. It's like 30 seconds on the mountain. That's the Tour de France one

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or lost, right? On 30 seconds over, yeah, 3000 kilometers and whatever the total time would be

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hundreds of hours, probably. The strategy for the Tour de France specifically used to be absolutely

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outrageous too. Like it used to be that cyclists would IV carbs at night. Like they literally

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have an IV of basically a sugar drip so they could load up for the next cycle. And there was,

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I think it was in the 50s, they used to take this type of steroid that it would thicken your blood.

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And so there were literally cyclists that would die if they didn't get up in like the middle of

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the night to warm up to get their blood moving again, because their blood becomes so viscous.

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So that's actually a more recent thing. So that was Marco, the famous Italian climber Marco

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Pantani, who was around in the late 90s. His resting heart rate was something like 30. It was so,

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so low. And, you know, we now know that was probably for many, many years of EPO, right?

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Because that was like peak EPO times. And so he went to a doctor because he was like having these

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weird palpitations and they were like, that is your heart stopping. He literally had to set,

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stopwatch, wake up in the middle of the night and then just do like just turning the pedals over on

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a bike to bring his heart rate up so that he could then sleep and be safe for a few more hours.

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He died young, obviously, Pantani. So that sounds like me, that sounds like me and Brickeridge.

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The Italians say that he died. I gotta get up and run around a fucking circle for a little bit,

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try to get some oxygen. Right. Yeah. But yeah, the Italians say he died. He died of a broken heart.

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Marco Pantani. Probably not. The squad from the sport. It was probably the cocaine though.

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Yeah. It was probably the cocaine. But he did. Well cocaine bounced out the heart rate, right?

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Yeah. Yeah. We had a heart attack. He had a heart attack on Valentine's Day, I think in the end.

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After being barred from the sport during the big, you know, huge doping explosion and the

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when it all came out at the end of the 90s, the first time. Yeah. They used to, before like doping

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was a thing, they used to just do amphetamine all the time. And then there's a famous case where a

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British rider in the 60s just died at the top of mountain. He was just like so off his balls. He

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just stepped off his bike by the side of the road and just fucking died. See, that's one thing. It

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doesn't carry out an F1. That'd be awesome if you had like hugely heavily cocaine drivers running around

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on the F1 track. Yeah. There's some like wild stories if you go back in like when it was

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pre kind of like, there's like this really weird period where cycling was not professional

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in the kind of modern sense. But like it was possible to make a living as a cyclist from pure

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like, like, like, like the public would be like, ah, what's amazing, what amazing sporting prowess

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we would like. And then people would be like, yeah, we help us sell your butter or something

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like that. Lots of people did live off it. But it was just, yeah. I love cycling. Please move on

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because this is tedious. Okay. 100%. Fair enough. Are we about the the Evamos ICS stuff? Oh, can

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we? It's amazing. We still have 40 minutes until Neutron halts. So super exciting about that.

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I'm like, who agreed to this fucking Evamos ICS shit? Me. Are you kidding me? I love that

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Cheryl did Know With Vito on it. That just makes me so happy that he was like, nope.

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What happened? Who know if he did it? Chill validation. He was like, this is an attack

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on the chain because you're changing the state, Know With Vito. I saw the Commonwealth post from

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Chill being like this. Yeah. Being like this is an attack on consensus and as a validator.

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I didn't realize they'd fully gone through that. That's awesome. So has the Cosmos Hub approved it?

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I don't think the votes up yet. Let me check because like the Ethereum

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like governance proposals are as if it's going to happen. Well, not necessarily. They're

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re-genocicing and changing the set size. But when you read all the Commonwealths, it's all in

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preparation for ICS. True. I don't know why I'm wasting my time fucking reading them. That's what it says.

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Yeah, but I don't think the prop is up there. I haven't seen it. I don't think I've seen it.

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And so is it going ICS or what's the new one? What do you call it? The

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where validators can opt into it? Partial side security. That's still ICS. That's ICS2 is what

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it's called, but it is partial set security. Yeah. It's not full ICS. So what happens if,

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so what happens if of all the validators say no? So the way I'm seeing it roll out right now is the

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teams that want to go to partial set security, they are kind of reaching out to validators and

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paying a stipend to be part of their partial set. Which in my opinion is actually like a really great

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way to go about it. If they don't think they'll actually get like enough commissions for it,

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then just pay the validators a stipend. Great. Everyone's happy. That's um, so, so the team can

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that set reduction is absolute savagery. It is fucking. What is it like 190 is living? They

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end up like 20. Isn't it fucking 16? I think it is. It's 16. Yeah. It's probably only 16 that

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we're making any money at this point there. Right. No, I don't think anybody's. Yeah.

347
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Yeah. Except for Block Demon because they're still running the archive and they getting like

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20,000 a month for that. Those fucking are.

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20 grand a month. I need to introduce the King nodes fucking. I feel like we're all

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running archives because you can't state sick this fucking piece of shit. Shane.

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Yeah. Well, the, well, the, the state is one terabyte. So yeah. What the hell big deal?

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That's nothing. Yeah. So right now, 117 in the set right now, going to what 16? There's no way

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these. Yeah. So I was, I was talking to a network yesterday about archives and we were talking about

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incrementals, like keeping incremental backups so that you can go back in time. For example.

355
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Um, what does that mean? And well, like, you know, Restora a backup from, I don't know,

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six months ago and get something out of it. If you need, like, you know, just to be able to access

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or, or and incrementally, like, um, uh, so say if, if, um, a partner who is using the data,

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sinks with your backup from, I don't know, has a, has a backup that they synced off you from,

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like, six months ago and they want to update it, right? Um, without having to like download the

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full thing, they can just update from the incremental. That's how it works.

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It is. What was the FS you can, you can do stuff like that. Um, but, but, but anyway,

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that's not the point of this. Um, so tendermint touches so many fucking files that like, if you

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did that, you would be burning like, you know, on a, on a normal chain, like a terror, like,

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like 10 gig a day or something, 100 gig a day or something ridiculous like that. It just touches

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so many files. Plus on say it's one terabyte a day of files that change. Yeah. Cause files get

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created and then aggregated and destroyed, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's kind of like a, yeah.

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Yeah. Cause you get, so much stuff changes that it just, it's not like just creating new files.

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It's like changing everything in the, in the filing structure. Yeah. Speaking of that. And anyway,

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it's annoying. What I've seen that say also, like recently, I'm not sure if something changed with

370
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:12,320
this last upgrade, but, but we've seen like, um, the actual use space on the drives go fucking ape

371
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,960
shit. But if you restart, say D to clears all that shit out. So it's like holding onto some sort of,

372
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:23,840
um, for some reason, the file system is calling those destroyed files as being held

373
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,280
for something or maybe the binary is holding onto those for some reason. So, yeah, like we've seen

374
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,800
like a couple of things where we've seen like three or four terabytes of growth, but you restart

375
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,640
saying it goes back down to, you know, 600 gigs or something. Um, yeah. Some weirdness. So you

376
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,000
should watch that. And well, it might be, I don't know, that might be a say DB thing or something.

377
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:48,960
I'm going to impact you. Well, I mean, I restarted every day anyway, but the, um,

378
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:54,160
um, you restart the binary every day on the archive. Yeah. Cause we do a daily,

379
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:01,840
all for take a snap. So it's just part of the, um, pipeline is that it stops the node.

380
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,000
Yeah. Does a snapshot starts to back up, replicates a snapshot does a table.

381
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Um, how the fuck. But yeah, anyway, the point is it touches fucking each of us.

382
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,560
How the fuck is only number five in the most that how did that happen?

383
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,600
Yeah. Uh, from your big drops on the internet. Is that boost drop TM TM?

384
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:23,680
No, I don't think so. I don't think that boost drop yielded much.

385
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:32,160
Uh, I voted, uh, no with veto on every one of these props for evmos. I think so. No, that's not

386
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,160
true. The question remains, why the fuck you still even validating? Well, I mean, there's really no

387
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,120
reason at all. There's really no reason. There's no reason at all to be able to be a part of this.

388
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,960
I have no, I have no idea. Hey, Jake, into the chat.

389
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,040
Apathy. I think it's what it is. It's apathy. It's still running. So why fuck with it?

390
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,720
As soon as we go through an upgrade and or something else happens and that it'll be it, but

391
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,480
funky, you're going to be waiting a fucking long time for that T-shirt. But

392
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:04,560
we don't have one with Mars for us was like, I think I spent a year saying we need to just

393
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,640
like turn that shit off. And I was saying you need to turn that shit off. And then it was finally

394
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:15,200
an upgrade. It was just no, it was a it was an out of governance upgrade. And I was like, fucking

395
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:23,280
yeet. Oh, no, that was it. No, we had a hard drive fail. That was it. We had the we had the

396
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,000
server fail. And then we had to migrate everything to avoid the slashing window

397
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,400
so that we could then unbond without it being like,

398
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:42,240
so that we could unbond gracefully rather than be downtime slashed. Yeah, you should probably turn

399
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:52,640
that shit off. How many of you guys are doing the the Kujira validating cert shields?

400
00:36:52,640 --> 00:37:04,560
No, I'm still there just because apathy. I will probably write it into the dirt until

401
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,960
that fucking price feeder starts to not work properly. And then I may eat it.

402
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,640
Because at this point, I just don't know if I could spend two hours fixing the price feeder

403
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:25,520
once it fucks up unless it's an easy fix because I reckon if I added up like the hours spent on

404
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:32,400
that damn price feeder since Kujira started, it would owe me a lot of hours for zero return.

405
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:38,880
And 20 hours maybe, for sure. At least, at least. And you're slashing right?

406
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,640
And each one of them in the middle of the night.

407
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:52,880
I've been slashing. Transmuter and... So that's official, right? It's going to Thor?

408
00:37:52,880 --> 00:38:01,840
Yeah, that's official. And what's interesting or fun about it is the Thor team, I guess,

409
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:07,120
is going to sponsor like three validators to join the Thor set. And so they're having some sort of

410
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,880
like competition right now around it. Who's committed enough to be one of our validators?

411
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,560
And it's like, if they sponsor you into the set, you make like, I think it's like $1,200 a year.

412
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:27,200
So they're like, who is going to fight it out? Who's going to fight it all? Yeah, exactly.

413
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,240
It's amazing. What are the hardware requirements for Thor? Is it not too egregious or is it like?

414
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:39,600
It's higher than normal Cosmos chains and Thor also has weird stuff. I don't remember too much

415
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,560
around its setup, but I remember correctly, it's kind of like polygon in that it has a

416
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,440
tendermint core, but there's also a different execution layer.

417
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,680
Oh, really? My understanding was it was tendermint for consensus and then...

418
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,040
Oh, really? Is that true? Yeah. Something else? Yeah.

419
00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:00,960
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. $626 million. Value lacked. Wow.

420
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,520
Wow. Well, we've inadvertently obviously also stumbled onto our actual news sheet provided

421
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:15,360
by a news researcher with that last item. Yeah. That was actually a smooth transition by me.

422
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:15,840
It's very gross.

423
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:16,880
So could it be a good scenario?

424
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,520
It's very gross. I'm posing the question from our news researcher would be that

425
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:33,840
the way it has been bailed out is apparently $3 million USDC to buy 12 million six-month bonded

426
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:43,360
arcouge tokens. The question being posed after that information is, is that pretty cheap for

427
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:49,760
the products on Kajira? Before or after this massive exploit issue?

428
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:57,280
Well, but if they can make some hay with that, I mean, yeah, I guess the problem is that,

429
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,720
like, especially with open-sourced Cosmos and stuff, the fact that you've got projects that

430
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:09,760
or products that exist, yeah, it would cost you more than $3 million to have those sponsored,

431
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,960
incubated and developed. But if they come without their community or the community's toast at this

432
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,360
point, then it's not worth anything, is it really? It's just open-source software running for nobody's

433
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,600
benefit, which is the question. Anybody know how many fees have been generated by Kajira over the

434
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:29,680
last, since Genesis? Is that known? I think a question. Ram is got to know that one.

435
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:38,000
$3 million seems like a buy. I mean, good project and good team. And it seems like it's a totally

436
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,720
like wish we were involved in it early on. But I don't know what it's actually,

437
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,880
I mean, that doesn't mean anything, but it hasn't generated anything.

438
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,400
But also, I don't think there's any assumption that the team are coming with that other than

439
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,200
the team have said it. But like, if you move off your own app chain onto somebody else's chain,

440
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,520
unless you have like a formal agreement, people don't, if people have already been paid, they

441
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,920
don't continue to work for free, if that makes sense. Like, I know that you can pay somebody

442
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,960
upfront and expect them to do work later, but that's true.

443
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,440
Dude, we're all general validators. What the fuck are you talking about?

444
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,800
What are you talking about? It's totally untrue.

445
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,480
That is devastating, Rich. You said I have a list of chains.

446
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,320
I have a list of chains that meet that criteria. Are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me?

447
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,680
What do we have been paying me to work? Are you kidding me?

448
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,840
So, so here's something fun for that. I actually had

449
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,040
something like $100,000 and unrealized losses for Juno. And I just realized them last

450
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,320
week. Congrats. Nice.

451
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,600
Thank you. I finally. You sold.

452
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,240
I finally sold. Yeah, finally sold my Juno.

453
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:56,400
It's like taking a huge shit. I think if we were doing the capital,

454
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:04,560
what do they call it? The capital gains method for assets. When we sold our Juno,

455
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,360
probably would have been in the million in realized losses, I think.

456
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:10,240
Flex.

457
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:17,360
Well, when it was $40, we held a lot of them all the way down to nothing.

458
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:29,360
I guess hypothetically, our company holdings would have been worth 1.1 million pounds,

459
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:37,200
which is like $1.3 million, $1.4 million, something like that. Easy come, easy go.

460
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,520
Well, then you eat them off for four grand.

461
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,040
But the thing is like, obviously, they never were realized that they were never,

462
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,840
we never had to pay tax on them at that value because otherwise we'd be bankrupt, right?

463
00:42:51,840 --> 00:43:00,800
Because you can't pay tax on 1.1 million pounds worth of tokens that don't exist when you don't

464
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:09,840
have any money because they are currently not there. So the way we did tax is that luckily

465
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:17,040
they went right up and came right back down like pretty quick. So when it hit 30th of June,

466
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,320
we didn't have this massive bag to pay tax on. It had already depreciated a fair bit.

467
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,800
We got stunned by that big times.

468
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:35,360
CB – Yeah, we had to pay the tax. Okay, this is real tragic. I'm going to say it because

469
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:43,520
it's like old school, cosmos law, and this is really, really tragic. But we basically wiped out

470
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:52,960
the entire profit of anything we ever made on Stargaze by the loss we took on the Juno assets

471
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:59,920
becoming realized at the point where we crossed a tax year threshold. And we had to pay tax on it.

472
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,840
JL – Including the Juno name service?

473
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,600
CB – No, Juno values profits.

474
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,080
JL – Yeah, but not the name service. Okay.

475
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:14,560
JL – Well, we did pay that. That is part of... So the name service money partly went to pay this

476
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:22,160
tax bill, partly went on the fact we had to pay VAT on everything, partly went on how development

477
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:30,320
there and stuff. But yeah, we wiped out the bigger, I guess, the thing that we, I 100%

478
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,960
know happened is that every cent we ever made on Stargaze, which wasn't like tons, but it was

479
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:43,920
like not nothing either. We fully wiped out paying our tax bill on Juno when it then obviously

480
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:49,520
completely died within maybe two months of us having to pay the tax bill on the hypothetical money.

481
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:55,920
So yeah. Fun times.

482
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,520
CB – That's horrible. That's sad. That's...

483
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:05,120
JL – It's a lesson, isn't it? Like a usurper's business partner said to me about getting my

484
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,680
phone stolen. You've learned a cheap lesson in the grand scheme of things.

485
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,320
CB – That's right. That's exactly what he said.

486
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,920
JL – Which it didn't feel like a... You know what? The thing this has in common with

487
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:22,240
getting my phone nicked in Barcelona is that it didn't feel like a cheap lesson at the time,

488
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:28,640
but in hindsight, if you walk away from it, it's a cheap lesson. It's just that you look at it and

489
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:36,880
you go, oh, my fucking god, that is just insanity. Like Nile says, the idea that there was even,

490
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:42,000
even if it was vesting, the idea that there was $1.1 million hypothetically sat somewhere

491
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,520
where at some point you'd have access to and between the time it existed. And we've all

492
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:52,000
worked for startups, right? So the idea that you have vesting things, then the company goes

493
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:52,880
barely up or whatever.

494
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,000
CB – That's right. That's exactly right.

495
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,400
JL – This is not an uncommon idea. We've been there in other scenarios and stuff,

496
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,840
but it's the scale of the number. If you have vested shares from a startup or something and

497
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,680
it goes tits up, you're like, oh, damn, that would have been a nice holiday, right? If they'd

498
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,640
ever cashed out and sold the company, I already got like a couple thousand dollars and gone on

499
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:17,760
a holiday or something. Like when the hypothetical number is over a million dollars, you're like,

500
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:24,640
this is silly. It's not real. And as it turns out, it's not real and it won't ever be real

501
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,320
because it turns out it just evaporates.

502
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,440
CB – The term for that is unrealized gains.

503
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,760
JL – Well, yes, exactly. As I explained very patiently to the tax man when they came

504
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,160
not, no, that's what accountants do.

505
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:41,120
CB – Well, I do think it might be something that people who have worked for public companies

506
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,040
who have gotten options or that might be worked for private companies who might have

507
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,720
auctions or equity or something else that might have experience with. But I think most,

508
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,800
not to generalize, but I think most people who get involved in this ecosystem might not understand

509
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,960
that term. And that term meaning like just because you have it doesn't mean it's worth anything.

510
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,880
And validators, I think, get sometimes caught in that shit as well, right? Or anybody who's

511
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,640
like huge token holders or even project teams. Project teams are like the mass, like they're

512
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,560
the fucking capital of unrealized gains, right? Like they hold the tokens, they create that

513
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:17,200
a thin air and then they put things like this on the website that says like TVL is worth $600

514
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:23,600
million. Is it though? Is it? That's an unrealized gain that you could never realize that gain.

515
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,400
So, yeah, I think that we've all been bitten by that, right?

516
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:34,080
JL – An unrealizable amount of, your token is only worth the liquidity that's in the pools, right?

517
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,960
CB – I learned that from you. And Ben Davis says the moral story is realize your gains. I mean,

518
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,600
that's that's the one way of, Jake says it's not because it's because it's...

519
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,200
JL – What does he say it's not too though?

520
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:50,160
CB – Probably to realize your gains. Realizing your gains means that you're basically exiting

521
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,920
or you're aggressively taking profits as Rama says, which is right, or to be able to exit out.

522
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:01,040
And like, I think depending on depending on what you're, if you're in this to be able to just

523
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:06,960
fuck around and have fun, then I think it's okay to not realize gains and just see what the fuck

524
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,520
happens, right? Because you're fucking around having fun. If you have real costs associated to it,

525
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,040
and you are fucking around finding out, then you're fucking around finding out.

526
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:21,440
And in this case, I would say that you have to aggressively take profits is a weird way of saying

527
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:27,520
it might be a way of just saying, just take what you can get. Because like right now,

528
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,840
we're not aggressively taking profits at this level of token price on some of these types of

529
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,560
things. But at some point, you just have to say, like what Chelsea just did, which is like,

530
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,920
you have to eventually say, well, fuck it, we're just going to sell what we can get, right?

531
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,520
JL – So I would push back a little bit around. I think his aggressively taking

532
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,240
profit and fuck the haters is the right take right now, right? The made up for validators for a

533
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:54,720
long time was kind of influenced by Jake up and a couple other heavy hitters where they're talking

534
00:48:54,720 --> 00:49:01,280
about how their income was coming more from their commissions than from delegators, right?

535
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:06,560
And so a lot of people were following that path, just because it was made really popular. Like if

536
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:12,720
you're a true validator, you're going to just restake all your commissions, and then all your

537
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:17,120
income from that. We talked about it on this multiple times, right? And I think the meta is

538
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:22,640
changing quite a bit here. Like one, I think that there's less due diligence being done

539
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:29,440
on what validators are being done. Like, no, he knows, God, he always gets shit on

540
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:34,800
Twitter for it for taking profits anytime that happens. Really, it's always really funny to me.

541
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,440
JL – A business stage cash flow, man. I'm not going to apologize for that.

542
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,960
JL – Yeah, but why people follow you specifically? I don't know. But if you look at

543
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:51,600
the dimension set right now, the number one validator is called Diamond Hands.

544
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:57,600
But if you look at his transactions, he's pulling commissions like every two days selling them.

545
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,240
JL – That's commitment.

546
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:06,560
JL – It's so good. So the meta is just different now than it was. And I think that

547
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,800
Romney's take of aggressive between Provisan and the haters, that should be the new meta.

548
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,080
JL – That's amazing.

549
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,760
JL – But to us, you've got to appreciate only a critter. So you pull your Diamond

550
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,720
Hands and you are the most paper hands in the eco. That's really…

551
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:23,920
JL – It's so good. Yeah.

552
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,520
JL – It's water hands, man. It's amazing.

553
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:34,160
It's like somebody asked me years ago, is this all just performance art? And you go,

554
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:35,200
JL – Yeah.

555
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:42,240
JL – Yeah. Do I even need to think about it? Yes, it is. That's all we're doing here.

556
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:49,120
JL – It's been interesting in the last three months. Prices haven't really gone anywhere,

557
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:58,720
but revenue seems to have stopped somehow and costs seem to be ever increasing.

558
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:02,880
I also think I'm making dumb decisions on infros.

559
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,400
JL – I know. I keep buying more and more shit. That's a really other issue as well.

560
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,760
JL – I just committed to a new rack for three years and I'm like,

561
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,640
JL – Yeah. JL – Shit is not cheap in Australia. Oh, jeez.

562
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:18,320
JL – I think I crossed the 100 server mark this month. I have 100

563
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,280
terminal servers rented right now. JL – That is up there.

564
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,240
JL – That's…

565
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:28,400
JL – Well, I don't have anywhere near the amount of validators you have and I have probably 40.

566
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,960
JL – Yeah. I mean, neither do we and we've got 15.

567
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,880
JL – How many?

568
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,080
JL – 15. I'm not counting any sort of VPSs or anything.

569
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,800
Including VPSs, it's way higher. Just straight bare metal full on machines.

570
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,040
JL – What is a VPS? Like a DO or something?

571
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,760
JL – Yeah, like Digital Ocean, the CloudThings, Amazon, AWS. Yeah.

572
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,920
So you can include those. I've got probably over 200. Just straight bare metal over 100.

573
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:54,640
JL – Jesus. What is it?

574
00:51:54,640 --> 00:52:00,640
JL – I have a question. Do you aggregate logs from those 100 bare metal servers?

575
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:06,640
JL – I do. And I actually have a server with 400 terabytes to process those logs.

576
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,280
JL – 400 terabytes?

577
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:14,000
JL – Reduce down 300 terabytes in RAID 10. So it's actually half of that.

578
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,080
JL – Of spinners?

579
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,600
JL – Of spinners, yeah.

580
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,680
JL – 100 terabytes of spinners.

581
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,400
JL – Yeah.

582
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,400
JL – That seems like a bad idea.

583
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,600
JL – Spinners.

584
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,760
JL – It's fast enough.

585
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,440
JL – It's fast enough. Yeah, absolutely.

586
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,160
JL – From aggregating logs from 100 servers?

587
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:33,520
JL – Yeah, for sure.

588
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,480
JL – Holy shit. But that might be 100 bare metal servers, but that might be like

589
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,920
600 separate fucking diamonds that it's logging from, right?

590
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:52,160
JL – Yeah. So are you shipping system D logs then? But are you using log tail or something?

591
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,640
JL – Promtail, yeah. End of the things, but promtail primarily.

592
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,880
Yeah. And then we prege logs every three days, or it's rolling three days at logs.

593
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,800
JL – Okay. And so how much of your 100 terabytes do you use on that three-day cycle?

594
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,800
JL – You know what? I couldn't tell you offhand.

595
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:15,120
JL – Wait. So you only keep three days of logs across all that shit?

596
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:15,840
JL – Yeah.

597
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,680
JL – Why bother?

598
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:26,240
JL – It's dependent on its criticality, if you will. A lot of things like logging out.

599
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:28,640
JL – Name me one critical thing that you need logs for.

600
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:34,960
JL – I like to keep track of the logs of SSH attempts that I typically keep for a month.

601
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,880
JL – But I thought you closed all those parts.

602
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,560
JL – I did. So typically it doesn't really have anything or doesn't really have anything.

603
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:41,520
JL – Yeah, it shouldn't be anything in there, right?

604
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,480
JL – Yeah. But I don't know. It feels important to me from a security perspective to at least

605
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,120
know what's going on.

606
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,720
JL – So do you keep logs for like nodes?

607
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:52,880
JL – Yeah. Do you keep customer nodes?

608
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,320
JL – No.

609
00:53:54,320 --> 00:54:01,200
JL – Yeah. I mean, I keep probably on the server, I keep maybe a day.

610
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,240
JL – I keep two gigs of logs.

611
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,480
JL – Yeah. Whatever that is.

612
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,680
JL – Well, we do ours in RAM and it's just full of…

613
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,760
JL – Me too. Two gigs of rolling RAM, that's really what it is.

614
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:19,360
JL – Yeah. Because if something goes wrong, if you're hunting through a log,

615
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,800
you're not calling back a week. You're going back like 10 minutes or an hour.

616
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,520
JL – The only one I'm actually considering actually doing a lot more logging of is web requests

617
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,600
because what we've have seen is we're serving so much fucking RPC traffic.

618
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,440
JL – Like for your hoproxies?

619
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:34,880
JL – Yeah. Is that…

620
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:35,760
JL – Yep.

621
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:43,680
JL – So I traditionally don't keep hoproxy, HA proxy type logs. And the reason of that is because…

622
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,440
JL – They are numerous.

623
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:51,600
JL – Not only that. Not only that, this is an open ecosystem. And I kind of have a little bit

624
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:57,280
of a privacy slash… Not necessarily privacy, but like a moral stance against trying to figure

625
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,560
out what the fuck is going on. However, we've had…

626
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,400
JL – I think keeping stats is important.

627
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:09,200
JL – We keep a fucking stat. Oh yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about specifically

628
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:14,000
like logs. But we do have… We've had a request like we're just recently actually with a team

629
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:19,840
that we've seen that they had a blockchain problem where a specific contract was causing

630
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:25,360
literally large delays in node processing both on the RPC as well as within the VALSET.

631
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,080
And they knew it was a problem. And so they were actually trying to

632
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:34,480
identify what calls were coming in. So now I started logging both the request as well as the

633
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:40,400
body of the request as well as the response. So it's a huge fucking piece of data like seeing

634
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,880
exactly what's coming in, exactly what's coming out. And then because they were doing troubleshooting

635
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,320
of that. So I started keeping a shitload of fucking logs associated to a shitload of requests

636
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,880
on the EVM side of trying to identify what the hell's going on. And that actually…

637
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,800
And then I was like, well, should I keep these all the time? Should I fucking hold on to this

638
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,720
shit? And I was like, I don't know if I can deal with this shit, right? Because those logs are huge.

639
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:07,360
I mean, you're talking like HAProxy, like web request logs with both the body and the response

640
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,320
is massive. Like you have a huge amount of data that's coming out of that.

641
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:17,920
And like even with that, I almost talked about it. I did do it and I was querying it. I didn't

642
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:22,240
provide access to it. I queried to be able to provide the data that was requested, but I did not

643
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,200
say, hey, I'm going to ship you 14 gigs of logs for you to go see who the fuck is requesting what

644
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,640
on where. Because at some point, there is, again, maybe it's that attitude, but like,

645
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:38,720
it's a fucking permissionless system. Like if somebody's using our RPCs for nefarious shit,

646
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:46,160
but like I kind of, it's not necessarily my responsibility to block that IP. You know what

647
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:53,680
I mean? Like, sorry, I was going to say that caddy is the big thing of the logs that I keep,

648
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,400
because caddy basically emits most things through their logs. So like any sort of events

649
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,840
that goes through the logs. So a lot of our logs are, go ahead.

650
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:07,920
But you see the body or you see the request? I see the request. I don't see the, go ahead.

651
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:12,480
I was actually tracking the body. Like, I was purposely looking for like an EVM request.

652
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,960
It's not like an RPC request where you like a traditional Cosmos where you just get the URL,

653
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,720
like, hey, somebody's tracking delegators, blah, blah, blah. And EVM is just posting to the

654
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,480
NVM thing. So you actually have to look at the body of that request to say, what are they,

655
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,320
what contract are they calling? Like, what, like, what's the body of that? And like,

656
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,080
that would be encoded and if they can decode it in real time, like all that shit, right?

657
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,080
Which to me, like, I don't know, I just want to get involved in that business. You know what I

658
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:41,680
mean? Did you say you were logging that or they wanted you to log that? Both. I wasn't logging

659
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:46,400
it before. They requested because they're looking for specific people who were calling,

660
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,240
they're looking for specific IPs that were calling specific contract with specific,

661
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,760
that were calling specific, and that contract wasn't bad. There's nothing wrong with the contract,

662
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,840
actually. It was just that that contract was creating a situation that would actually,

663
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:02,640
was it was an issue with the daemon itself. And so that was actually stalling some things that

664
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:08,560
were happening internally. And so to be able to pull that data out, required me to pull the body

665
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,800
data out because I had to actually look at see what exactly what was in the body of each JSON

666
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,360
RPC request to be able to see which ones were calling those specific contracts. And then to be

667
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:22,240
able to understand, could we rate limit that issue? Because that issue was actually creating a

668
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:27,760
situation where it was stalling the nodes out, the VALSET specifically. So did you have to,

669
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,000
were you doing that with half proxy or did you have to use some sort of middleware?

670
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,480
No, I can do that with half proxy. You can, you can, you can, you can, you can log it out. It's

671
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:43,520
like a fucking gig a minute. It's like crazy amounts of text, right? The only thing I've added to my

672
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:48,800
logs is API's is the only thing that I added to my logs other than the standard. What do you mean

673
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:55,200
API's API keys? Oh yeah, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. So just print the API key for the on that line for

674
00:58:55,200 --> 00:59:00,880
the request. Yeah, that's smart. Yeah. Yeah, it's only so I can get statistics on who's abusing the

675
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:06,800
fucking free API keys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's basically why I started as well, like seeing

676
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:12,080
the API keys and like what, what we're whitelisting and seeing what actually usage looks like. Yep.

677
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,840
Yeah, that I can do. I can do that through Cloudflare. I mean, I can pull that through the logs

678
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:21,680
through like at the, at the CF level, but can you do that at Cloudflare? I think you'd have to have

679
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,920
a worker for that because you can't inspect the headers. We can't get stats on the headers

680
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:31,920
for the API key at the worker. Yep. Are you going to work it for that? I did. I figured that out.

681
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:43,600
I'd love to see that. I'm sure you would. Fucking asshole. We've been collaborating on some

682
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:51,280
We've been, we've been bros lately. Yeah. The these fucking this EVM, we've been Zabx arising,

683
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:58,640
arising the EVM monitoring, which has been interesting. And so that we came up with this

684
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:04,080
fork detection thing, which would basically like take the latest block on our, our nodes,

685
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:11,760
and then extract the block hash and then test a public node for the same block height and test

686
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:20,880
its block hash to detect a divergence of fork. Right. And, um, well, we keep getting these false

687
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:27,120
positives. No idea why. I didn't make some changes to that. Like it's interesting where I thought

688
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:32,800
maybe it was related to how we were pulling data or if the maybe the number would change.

689
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,880
It's definitely querying the right block height. I even removed some steps in between

690
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:45,920
how we were grading that data. So I need to ask somebody, but is it possible? Is it possible?

691
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:51,920
This is an EVM side, but is it possible that I could query multiple nodes at the same height

692
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:56,640
and receive a different hash? It doesn't seem like it should be possible, but it doesn't make

693
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:01,520
any sense. Could it be, could it be an, could it be an MEV thing? Because the block is committed,

694
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:06,240
right? So the hash should always be the same. Otherwise that's an equivocation.

695
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:12,480
Yeah. Which is weird because it's happening every, oh, it's a, wait, wait, wait, wait,

696
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,560
wait, wait, wait, wait, there's, there's a situation I think. Okay. I'm not, I'm not familiar enough

697
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,880
with exactly the order of operations in Ethereum to know if this is possible.

698
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:28,480
Okay. But I guess there is a hypothetical situation in which a mempool, which is obviously

699
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:33,680
is ordered in a certain way. If you could query a mempool before block commitment,

700
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:39,200
and that block was not the leader, I guess there's potential, there's like, there's obviously a

701
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:45,280
window of time between the finalization of the order of a block and the commitment of a block,

702
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:51,440
whereby if you said to a mempool, maybe at this height, which is the prospective current height,

703
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:57,040
what have you got versus this other one, they would report different things, but you'd have to

704
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:02,640
ask the mempool, not the node, because the nodes, no matter which consensus you're using,

705
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:08,160
a leader has to have said, this is the block we're committing and people have to agree to it.

706
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:12,560
Right. Yeah. But this is all, these are all committed blocks. I think every time that we do

707
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:17,280
this, right? Because we're looking at, we're looking at the past. And it only happens like once

708
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:23,360
every, literally every, what, I'm getting a bunch, I run more chains than you do, but I'm getting it

709
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:29,120
like once, I'm like, like Astar we're running. And it happened on polygon, it happened a couple

710
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:34,960
of other ones where, where like, it happened enough for me to turn the fucking the alert off.

711
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,960
Did it happen on bear for you? Oh, it didn't happen on bear for me. All right. So something's

712
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,520
fucked. That's weird, because I just actually, I just changed that job to do actually make sure that

713
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:49,840
the whatever, whatever block number is coming out of the node, it's at I'm verifying that it's

714
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:55,280
actually querying that in a public RPC, that it has a, that it's querying the same block height,

715
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:01,760
but I'm, but I have received like once every one day for a chain, I have received something

716
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,920
different. So what I thought about, I thought about kicking this down the fucking path, which was

717
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:12,480
just be, Hey, it's got to be wrong four times in a row. That's, that's, that's my solution to it.

718
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:16,960
All right. If it's wrong once, totally cool. It's fine. But if it's wrong three times, then

719
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,120
there's an issue. Maybe that's the right, maybe because I, it might, it must be querying the

720
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,000
wrong block height somehow, but I don't even know how that would be possible.

721
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:30,400
No, it can't be. It can't be, it can't be or, or, or maybe, maybe, I don't even know what the

722
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,960
fuck it would possibly be. It's fucked up. I mean, they're all G E's nodes, right? Maybe it's a bug

723
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:44,720
with G E's. Maybe not because I've had it in polygon, which is not geth. That's bore. I've had it on

724
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:50,720
Astar, which is, I don't know what the fuck that is. I've had it on, I've had it on a shitload of

725
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,040
chains. But like, I mean, I can go back and look at the problems, but it has to be at least six or

726
01:03:55,040 --> 01:04:00,000
seven different chains, but it's only one block. And then, and that hash doesn't match. And it's

727
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,280
not like it, it's not like it's off by a set or something else. Like it's totally different.

728
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:09,280
Like it's fucked. So anyway, anyway, so Nell and I have been working together. We've been bros

729
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,720
working towards our, this dashboard is looking good though. Like, I'm really happy with the

730
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:17,040
moderating. So we did it for both Solana because we do some stuff with Solana together with Schultz

731
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:22,080
and all VBN chains. It's looking pretty fucking tits. I gotta admit.

732
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:26,400
Looks nice. I think there's a few lessons learned there that we're going to move up to the

733
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,600
Cosmos monitoring as well. Yeah, I think so. Not this hash thing, but...

734
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:37,920
No, no, no, no. Actually, so I said this to you in the chat the other day, but I'm going to

735
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:44,400
get out my fucking low level discovery hat. And I'm going to make that sinking thing happen

736
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:50,880
where when it's in sync mode, it's going to sync all the various heights for like, you know, what's

737
01:04:52,080 --> 01:05:00,800
you know, safe and like all the stages of the sync in like G ETH and have like a low level

738
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:05,680
discovered dashboard for that as well, just so it comes up when you're doing the sync and then

739
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:12,560
disappears a day later. So that'll be a fun little experiment. I sort of half built it before and

740
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:20,720
then deleted it because it was frustrating and it was late. Okay, cool. I fucking I always

741
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:25,280
forget how that low level discovery works. I have to like reread the docs every fucking time I do it.

742
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:31,520
It's so annoying. It's not intuitive at all. But it's pretty cool when you get it working.

743
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,440
Neutron is going to halt in a minute and 49 seconds. So that's super exciting for all of us.

744
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:43,040
It's a halt height upgrade, which means that it will totally fail. It's going to blow straight

745
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:49,360
through that upgrade high, isn't it? It is 100% going to I guarantee it moves places. I would say

746
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,800
place bets now, but I think we all think it's going to blow through the upgrade height, don't

747
01:05:52,800 --> 01:06:00,320
we? The target block ends in 950. I guarantee there's a 951, 952, 953. There's no way.

748
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:05,840
So one thing that other networks have done, which I like is that if they have to have this fucking

749
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:13,440
hold height, they distribute a new binary in advance with a hold height built into it. Well,

750
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:19,200
it's basically the governance thing. So then you can stage the, it's governance without,

751
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,760
it's like it puts an upgrade plan without governance and then you can just use Cosmovisor.

752
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:29,120
So I don't know why they're not using that type of lesson learned and just fucking doing it that

753
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:34,480
way. Not Cosmovisor though, right? It just, I think the binary just automatically halts at that height.

754
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:40,160
I think it injects like an upgrade plan the same as if they had governance.

755
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:46,240
Oh, okay. Yeah, it's related to the SDK. It's not related to Cosmovisor.

756
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,400
Yeah. I thought it just halts it like it just forces the halt and that's it. It just shuts

757
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:59,280
it down. Yeah. It's a function of XGov rather than Cosmovisor. The upgrade, the emission

758
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:05,520
is the same as a scheduled software upgrade essentially. Yeah. So we'd put the log and

759
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,600
Cosmovisor would pick it up. I mean, that would be great if that actually worked.

760
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,960
My point is that if you were not running Cosmovisor, it would also hold.

761
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,800
Oh, I think we just hit the hold height. Let me see if my nodes all stopped.

762
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:24,560
Why are they appearing? They should be fucking dead. I mean, the other thing you can do is just

763
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:29,440
stop the system D and run it in like screen or T marks with a fucking hold height.

764
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:35,520
Wait, what the fuck is this shit? Fail to apply block error halt height per configuration height

765
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,080
117,950. That's where we are. Are you on Neutron Shieldsie?

766
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:45,120
Yeah, he's on Neutron. Yeah. Yeah. You're experiencing the same pain in real time.

767
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:52,000
All right. Well, my nodes are, they halted at the height somehow. So did, did we get 51?

768
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:57,520
Holy shit. We didn't get 51. God damn it. Unbelievable. It actually worked.

769
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:02,480
He did get the height. It actually halted on height. All right. Let me run the upgrade.

770
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:07,440
Unbelievable. That's amazing. You saw it here first, folks. Something stopped at the height.

771
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,880
And a whole height actually worked. Is it v421? Is that what it is?

772
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,600
Chelsea, did you, did you stop at the height? He's got, he's got to ask James.

773
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:25,120
He delegates a shit. Come on, man. He's a CEO. You know, you got, I got, I got checked with my

774
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:31,760
people. Is the discord looking just like a fucking shit show of yapping upgraded, upgraded, upgraded,

775
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:38,160
upgraded. It's amazing. Yeah. It will be soon though. Does everyone think that like, you know,

776
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,720
the fucking foundation is there with their pen and paper writing down the fucking monikers of the

777
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:49,680
people who you're that they've upgraded. Oh, fuck it. Oh shit. Yeah. Right. No, it's upgraded. Oh,

778
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:57,280
that's a fucking gold star for Rhino. We're going to get out the gold starboard to keep it

779
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:01,760
track. I'm 100% sure that some teams do. Should they? No. Do they? Yes.

780
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:07,840
And the teams that do almost certainly the ones that shouldn't fucking bother, I imagine.

781
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,280
Something like that. Yeah. That's kind of my name. A couple of networks.

782
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:16,320
My impression at least like when we were running more networks was the people who are the most

783
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:23,440
jobs worthy, shall we say, were usually the networks that had too much time on their hands,

784
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:26,320
because maybe the network wasn't doing as well as they thought it would.

785
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:29,360
But they still had budget.

786
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:36,480
They still got a bit of runway left to burn, baby. And so let's do it by sitting on discord,

787
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:49,520
because that's work. So Rhino or Sirp, I've just started load balancing the beacon nodes on ETH.

788
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:55,200
And for some reason, I thought that it would have issues, but it seems to work just fine.

789
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,600
You can do that. Seems like you can. You can't really change the

790
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:05,760
like the provider though. So like you can't mix Prism and Lighthouse because they have different

791
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:11,040
URLs. So that's super dumb, but you can load balance them. URIs?

792
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:18,000
You can't. It's a one-on-one period. It's the same. It's not. No. They're not the same.

793
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,640
Oh, sorry. But there's like some of them are the same and some of them are different though, right?

794
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:27,760
They have small differences. Small differences. Which makes them kind of incompatible.

795
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:32,640
You can load balance the consensus engine. Is that what you're saying? Same. That way. Yeah.

796
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:37,840
I swear to God, like they all say. As long as you have the, as long as your

797
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:44,640
entities that are running all have the same identity, only one of them will get hit by the

798
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:49,680
request, right? And then go and do it. I don't know why you would. I can't really think of a

799
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,200
reason why you would load balance it because all you're doing is putting additional load on the box.

800
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,600
And maybe fail over a single thread. Fail over might be a better, a better,

801
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,960
not necessarily load balance, but maybe fail over might be a better. Yeah. But if you're on the same,

802
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:07,520
yeah. So you could put two on separate boxes, load balance and have like an automatic failover,

803
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:15,360
I suppose, for the consensus part. But I mean, what's the point? That's also, well, hang on.

804
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:22,720
I mean, let's take a step back. Is that doable for tendermint? No. No, it's not. Because tendermint

805
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:28,960
has the slashing built in. So it's back to, it's back to, well, the way slashing is implemented

806
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:32,960
in tendermint means it's not possible in tendermint is my understanding. What's the point of doing that?

807
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:40,320
What's that? What's the point of having, of having a failover on the CL engine? Probably none.

808
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:44,480
Because you're still going to use one execution. So it gives a shit. Yeah. I don't think I'm going

809
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:52,560
to undo it because it's scaring me. But anyway, SSV continued to function

810
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:59,920
just fine, bouncing between two different consensus clients. I mean, I do remember seeing that on like

811
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:08,800
all of the consensus engine structures around not mixing multiple consensus engines and not

812
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:13,520
having multiple consensus, like that CL EL should be a one-to-one pair always.

813
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:21,520
Yeah, the CL EL is one-to-one. But sorry, maybe I explained that wrong. Actually, you like

814
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:31,200
exposing the beacon, two different beacons to like the one SSV, for example.

815
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:38,720
Oh, so I'm sorry. So two different CL EL pairs to one SSV, meaning like SSV is, oh, yeah, that

816
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,240
doesn't make a difference. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Because it doesn't really do anything with the,

817
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:46,000
with the, it's just looking for an endpoint to be able to get chain state, right? So that's totally

818
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:52,080
cool. Yeah. Not sharing like a JWT or anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right.

819
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:55,440
That makes sense. That's a fucking weird diversion. But yeah. Okay.

820
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:03,280
All right. What's going on? New tricks anyway. Move a block. We, oh, no, we didn't get any,

821
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:10,960
wait, we didn't get any live logs here or we moved past it. I was right. 950, 951 through 955.

822
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:18,480
A minute ago, I'm guessing 955 is not on the new, is not on the new engine. I think whole

823
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:24,400
height failed. Let's see. My notes are all in the new one. We'll see what the fuck. Happy days.

824
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:30,160
For the record, there's now a Discord channel called Validator Chat full of text saying upgraded.

825
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:37,920
It just now happens. It's funny. All right. Let's see what happens.

826
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:44,320
Thanks to Juno's communication there. 4k a month, I think for two comms members.

827
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:51,520
Juno now has a tutorial slash demo on how to use andro, andromedromedra's

828
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:59,360
platform to min some NFTs for Juno. Illegal rave event being hosted by Highlander.

829
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,880
See event hosted by Highlander? I thought he disappeared. I thought he was gone.

830
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:12,800
I'm still around. My neutron nodes are seeing 56, 57. Did we make it past this upgrade already?

831
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,640
Get the fuck out of here. That's impossible. There's no way. Maybe the upgrade actually

832
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,720
successfully happened and you're seeing new blocks not because you blew past it, but because

833
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:28,640
the professionalism of neutron validators cannot be underestimated. I think that comment is 100%

834
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:35,040
true because I'm seeing new blocks on the new binary with no app hashes. That was a halt height

835
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:43,920
upgrade that went better than an actual Cosmovisor upgrade. That's fucking unbelievable. James saying

836
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:52,560
congrats validators. That is insanity. How the hell did that happen? That is literally unbelievable.

837
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,920
That's the first time that has never happened that we've ever, I've never seen a halt height

838
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:01,360
upgrade that actually went through. That hasn't taken two hours plus. That hasn't taken two hours.

839
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:07,840
No less. Eight hours plus. You're getting two hours. Maybe the neutron cohort are just getting

840
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:13,840
really used to it now. There's been enough training by this point. The halt height was

841
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,680
10 minutes ago. Wait, no, that's not true. Yeah, the halt height was 10 minutes ago.

842
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:25,680
Looks like we had two more blocks, which it did move past and now, yeah, 10 minutes or less.

843
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:31,360
Actually, it looks like it started moving six minutes ago. That's insanity. I do see some,

844
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,440
like we do see some nodes that are having app hashes, not us, but like some, some vowels

845
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:39,760
we're talking about, but that's because they pretty missed the whole thing. That's crazy.

846
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:46,480
Wow. So I'll tell you one thing I have done before with a halt height upgrade was not use system D

847
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:53,520
and go into screen and start the binary with the halt height in it, but with the,

848
01:15:53,520 --> 01:16:01,040
yeah, I'll just quit. Yeah, but with, and then at the end of that, put the ampersand ampersand

849
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:12,480
and then the start for the system D, right? And then upgrade the new binary into the current

850
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:23,280
directory of Cosmovisor so that when the halt height hits and it exits the current, you know,

851
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:29,360
instance, it'll then start up the system D with the new binary without you having to be there.

852
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:32,560
Well, that's a smart, that's a good idea. That's fucking maverick.

853
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:35,120
Crazy, dude. Blazing trails.

854
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,200
We still get a change of binary, right? So how would you do that? Yeah, that's mad.

855
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,960
No, you put it into the Cosmovisor current directory because that's what it's going to start

856
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,320
to put the other one into like a in go bin or something.

857
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:51,200
You just have the other one in go bin. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, you're like, yeah, but you can also

858
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:57,040
start the binary with the halt height and put ampersand ampersand and then, you know,

859
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:03,520
neutron D start after it, right? And after it starts up, then you upgrade the binary in go bin.

860
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,160
And then it'll start stopping restart again, and then you're upgraded.

861
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:13,600
That's, that's, it's pretty fucking badass, dude. It's a good idea. That's one of the same thing.

862
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,240
It comes up with all sorts of bullshit when you don't want to get up at 3am.

863
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:22,560
That's the other thing. It's just really the, the adapts and provides overcome meme.

864
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:29,600
This is one of those things that like some, some PhD 10 years from now, they'll explain to,

865
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:35,600
to the fray and it'll be like, oh fuck, yeah, no mention this back in 2024. He's a fucking genius.

866
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:42,800
Any of his shits can be relevant in 10 years time. It's already, it's already scarcely.

867
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:46,160
It's amazing. It wasn't that a thing a few years ago.

868
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:52,480
I tell you what, I have in the last couple of years, I have increasingly

869
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:59,200
been forced to be more of a bash monkey. So do enjoy a bit of bash these days.

870
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:08,720
Jake says, what do people think about the state of Cosmos and these days? Well, well,

871
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:15,120
I mean, it's the source of a lot of fun. I mean, there has been some issues.

872
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:20,880
I think if you are a white hat hacker, there, it can be quite lucrative, the current state

873
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:27,440
of Cosmos in like bug bashing, right? What's the bug bashing? What's the dollars associated

874
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:30,880
there right now? Who's got my depends on the network, but if there's, you know,

875
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:35,520
networks that if you discover a critical vulnerability in their stack and Cosmos is

876
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:41,520
part of the stack, then you can make bank on like the bug bounty. Maybe I should be doing that.

877
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:46,400
You should. There was a dude for say the other day took home a cool fucking couple of million

878
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:52,080
for a bug in the wrong game. Yeah. In whatever game I'm currently in. I

879
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,000
don't know what game I'm playing anymore. A couple of million, whatever game.

880
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:02,080
Can't remember the exact amount, but I'm confused. It was upwards of a million.

881
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:06,320
Dude, there's, there's literally like one billion. Wow, offer you if you want to be able to do this,

882
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:13,520
if you could make it happen. Like I got one billion. Wow, wow for you right here, buddy.

883
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:19,280
I think has the, um, has the, wow, wow teams successfully whittled down the fucking treasury

884
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:25,680
to nothing yet or burn it all. It must be nearly zero. You just thought going to ICS at a chain

885
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:30,960
near you. Oh, that'd be great. They're talking about it already came up, right? What if wow,

886
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:36,160
wow, just, I thought it's a Z deck. It'd be amazing. They're, they're trying to remarket that a

887
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:40,800
little bit like, Hey, were the original meme, meme coin and all that. Yeah. They are the original

888
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:46,240
cosmos meme. They should probably just become their own hub and do ICS off of wow. Yeah. Yeah.

889
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:52,480
That's what I'm thinking. Amazing. Reload. She has an ICS chain from wow. I think so.

890
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:59,040
I resurrects for us. Yes. I, I think, uh, I think Jappy's plan is a much better meme chain.

891
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:05,760
The you moron thing. That's great. You moron. Yeah. You have a moron. You have a moron. You

892
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:11,840
have a token where the tick is moron and then that is dominated as you morons and then you're

893
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:18,480
surprised when it rug pulls you fucking perfect. That's, I mean, that's, that's OG. The gonj

894
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:24,560
has not been so active in the last like six months as what it was with that discussion about the

895
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:32,160
fucking moron chain. Yeah. Well, it's because the actual reason is because a lot of the gonj chat

896
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:39,520
are back to their day jobs. The group chat. Look, you know, like we, we, we, we've in the pre-show

897
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:46,160
we were like, I was talking about that is, is currently what's happened in my life. So it's

898
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:52,080
just like, yeah, you know, there's love. There's a lot of, what are we doing in the cosmos energy?

899
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:57,840
And it's not particularly surprising that like it's because it's also not every, it's also just

900
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:01,520
like in general, the validated business that we've talked about before at length,

901
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:06,800
in various different angles is becoming kind of what you would expect now, right? Which is a

902
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:15,280
margins game. It's like a big volume margins game. And the mom pop garage band validators,

903
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:21,200
which is what to varying extents we all were when we started companies working in the space,

904
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:27,440
are no longer viable in the same way, right? And we've got different routes. Some of us have

905
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:31,920
expanded and become very big. And some of us have backed away from it. You know, and I think

906
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:37,120
that's just true in the, in the group chat in general, when you look at folks have taken

907
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,920
different decisions on the direction they want to go as far as they seem to guess, right? A lot

908
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:50,080
people keep it as a hobby, right? As well, or an expensive hobby, potentially. I think if you're

909
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:56,880
like, if you're a hobbyist and running and you're interested in like maybe one or two networks,

910
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:03,120
I think that's probably like fine, but you're not a hobbyist running fucking 40 networks. Like

911
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,040
you're pretty committed at that point. Sure, sure, sure. But like there's the only person I can

912
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:11,920
think of who is like a hobbyist in spirit, but running that many networks is probably like

913
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,240
Jaby. He doesn't run that many networks, though, right?

914
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,760
He runs around about 12, I think, right? I don't even know. I thought it was like 10.

915
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:23,200
Yeah, or five or six or something like that. But agreed. Like, but, but hobbyist is a weird,

916
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:28,880
a weird thing because I think people enter this like, I guess a 24 seven job, right? Like it's,

917
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:34,240
it's work, even though like, you know, Null runs all the shit at Contabo and stuff like that. Like

918
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:40,000
in VPS is like, there's the, even though his archive, I don't have shit at Contabo.

919
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:46,320
Even though his archive nodes are running on Raspberry Pi's and like a stack of, of, uh,

920
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:50,000
spinner drive under his desk and take NVMEs these days. Even

921
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:56,400
it's still, it's still a lot of work. That's for sure. I'm just waiting to be rugged here.

922
01:22:56,400 --> 01:23:00,960
Like, are you just not pressing the button? The fray or, oh, are you over time? I still

923
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:17,040
can't believe this fucking network.