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That never blows my that never it never ceases to blow my mind that you you can get on a train at your local train station.

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And yeah, in a like five hours or so you can you can get off in Paris and obviously that's like pretty cool.

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So like the most amazing thing in the UK is leaving it is leaving.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent valeduct teams.

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Hello and welcome to Singletrack Mind, the rail enthusiast podcast. We're talking long

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distance European train journeys this week. Obviously, we had a whole season on the one

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fucking train line in Australia. So we know we are testing our listeners patience a little bit.

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So we're going to talk about a continent that has good rail links for a change.

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But first of all, I want to find out how my co-host are doing. Fellas, you've just been

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at a big train conference, the biggest train conference in the world in Austin.

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Is that? No, I don't know if it was this year. Maybe not this year, maybe other years.

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But consensus is the biggest train conference, right? Bigger than

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Nethemba, surely? Oh, definitely. This year. Really? No, you're right. Actually, that's a fair

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point. Like, it's tough to tell because it started it early and spicily. Okay. It's tough to tell

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because Denver is so spread out. I guess they both have a shitload of side events. It always

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seems like consensus has more side events. And so maybe there's just people spread out more.

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The show floor is bigger. Actually, I don't even know, right? Nethemba's show floor might have

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been bigger this year. I think it is. And God, there are a couple of events we went to and there

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were like six people there and the teams were just like 12 team people, six, nine team people.

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And so everyone was standing around awkwardly like, hey. It's a real bad market energy. I

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thought we're in a bull again. It was weird. I think the show floor had a decent amount of people,

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but it wasn't packed. And then Schultz is right. Like, we went to a few events. We went to one

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event that we thought we were in the wrong event, right? And then some dude waved his over. He's

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like, you guys look like you're looking for me. We're like, I guess so. Yeah. And then that actually

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was a great event. I won't say what it was. It wasn't embarrassing because it was like a last

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minute thing. It was no big deal. But it was like a last minute thing. And then we knew about it.

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And then we went to this. It was a Laos event. No, it was a Laos. So we went to a Laos thing.

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And literally it was just, I forget it was Brendan, right? It was a

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Devrel elite. No, I think he was like having media or something. That's right. He's on the

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marketing side. And he's like, yeah, we're just, we're just, we grabbed some appetizers and some

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beers. And we actually, it was really nice because Alex CEO was there and like, we had a really nice

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conversation. It was actually one of the best conversations we had just because there wasn't

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a thousand people, right? And you just had a chance to sit down. And we were able to joke

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about like just a Laos things, you know, like the, like the validator vote on whether Mainnet's

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ready and all this kind of stuff. And we were able to have like really good conversations about

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that where, and then the environment might be awkward. But we just literally sitting around

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having beers and like eating nachos and shit, which was, which was really, really nice. It was

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also very unconsensus like, I think was different. I mean, that sounds good. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Same

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thing at Baruchain. We went to a Baruchain event. One of those nights, I remember it was early in

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the week though. So that might have been it too. But, but like they were expecting like 700 people

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and there was maybe a couple hundred, maybe like 150 or something like that. Which was also nice

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because we had a chance to meet everybody and like, there's a bunch of people there, which was,

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which was cool. Like there's nothing wrong with that. Like, I think it's fine. It doesn't really

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say anything, but it was a lot more, it was everything was a lot more approachable this year

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than I thought it was in 2022. I've been describing as intimate. Like at the ETH Denver, you really

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couldn't interact with the teams. Like you'd go there to actually talk to us like a specific team

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or person, right? And I think I only achieved that like three times because there's just so many people

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that me with being introverted, like I don't want to go butt into conversation and be like,

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Hey, this is my name and this is what I do. Because they're going to be like, well, I'm busy,

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don't care. So I don't want to deal with it. But a consensus because there was downtime,

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I want to say downtime, it's not quite the way to put it. There was less stress to like meet

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everyone and talk to everything. People were willing to just kind of like pull you into the

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conversation. And you didn't have to have that additional mental overhead of like, how am I

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going to actually like make this work? It was just everyone was open to talking with people.

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Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. And there's a lot of really good, I mean, there's a lot of good

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people there, which you would expect. And there was a lot of surprising like cosmos people there.

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Because we knew Berlin was going, was it Berlin? So where it was? Yeah. So yeah, so Berlin was

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going at the same time. So there was like everybody's like, oh, there's not too many cosmos events.

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But I mean, we saw a ton of Ethan was there and Jack was there and cosmos J from say and like,

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Shane was down there. And like, there was like, a lot of folks that we would typically see at a

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pretty large cosmos event were all there. Yeah. But I mean, I think a lot of the,

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a lot of people in the cosmos space that I will say I do a more, more ambitious, maybe

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are not going to cosmos events if there is a substantially bigger event that's non-cosmos

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specific. Yeah, I don't know. Or maybe they're, yeah, or maybe just like different, maybe just

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different goals, right? Like they know all those, maybe they're trying to make different

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relationships. So would you say that the popularity of the conference is on the way?

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I wouldn't say that. So it's a deal is becoming more, more, more selective.

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Yeah, I would say it's more institutional. Like if Fidelity was there, I saw a vanguard person.

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And you're smiling like there was a joke there. And I feel like I didn't pick up on the joke.

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I just quite a spilt up at you. It's fine. It's fine. I'm over it. I've already over it.

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You did?

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Yeah. I asked you whether the popularity of the event was on the way

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to which the responses, no, I think, I think their appeal has become more selective.

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I see. Okay.

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Yeah. That's one of those films I think, I think probably other than Master and Commander

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that we've seen the most. So anyway, I mean, I usually know my, I usually know my

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spinal tap courts. That one totally won't ever my head.

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It's too busy to think about the limo.

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But so, I mean, it sounds pretty good though. I think like my weird thing is I've only ever done,

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I've done like the chain link specific one Barcelona last year.

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Right. And then I've done side events at FinTech conferences that have been blockchain

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companies or foundations. And those are always weird because it's just like who's the audience

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a little bit. And then before that, it was just the cosmos at the height of when all the chains

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were launching, which was just insane. And then just after I did the gateway, the Cosmos gateway one,

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just after Tara exploded, that was like a week after.

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When you say exploded, do you mean like it fell apart or isn't it got popular?

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That's an important thing.

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It fell apart. So like Cosmos gateway was like 15th of May or something, 22. So like,

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I think Tara had literally, literally fallen apart like 14 days before. Like it, there were like

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validators were stood around talking about like, Hey, did you get wrecked? Like people were in the

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the after event in a club in Prague being like, how much did you lose? So I don't know, I've never,

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I'm kind of like, I really do at some point want to go to an industry conference for this space,

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which isn't like either like frothing total mania or like funeral after party.

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And we'll ignore the all the FinTech stuff because those have just been like a whatever man.

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But yeah, it sounds relatively good. Why do you think it was like more intimate this year?

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I think it was just less people. Yeah, there's nothing more than that.

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Yeah, but what about I mean, but why are less people?

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Yeah, but 22 is 22 was like full on bear at that point.

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Like, yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, Bitcoin's at $70,000. I don't know. I don't know. I mean,

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there's still a Lambo with like, she knew who fucking dogs bless it over in the front. So like,

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there's some of that shit is still there. Right. There's people.

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A few cyber trucks with ads on them. There's a lot of cyber trucks with ads on

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others. People walk around with the huge plastic gold chains. Like, so there's a few of that

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still happening. What was it? It was like crazy. And it's still seems right. There's a lot more

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suits, which is bullish. Yeah, there were there were a couple of events that I went to where

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I think I stood out as the youngest by like 20 years. And I was like, okay, I need to go to

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those. That's my that's my crew. I mean, so okay, so okay, so I have a I have a thesis, right? I've

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been thinking about so like, obviously, I've been having a few I've been trying to work out

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like some new business stuff. I've been also like doing some stuff where networking, maybe it's

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networking. But I'm not, as you guys know, not not super tricks hooked in with what is going on

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in TradFy, right? But I now have like the tiniest crack a window into it, as it reflects on what

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we do, right? That I have acquired over the last seven or eight months or whatever. And I really

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do think there's like this. Like so, I keep you know, I always go on about like, Ethereum boomers

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and Bitcoin boomers, like because the tech is just not there. But everybody's just grandfathers,

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like, you know, it's got market share. So people are just like building on top of it, it's just

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becoming this. It's like, you know, when there's houses in Edinburgh in like the 17th century,

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where they just collapsed eventually, because you before steel construction, you just couldn't

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build a building that high, eventually they would fall apart. But people kept adding stories until

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they did. And that's kind of like Ethereum. But what seems to be happening now, at least from a

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complete outsized perspective, is that that's where the TradFy, like for whatever reason,

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that's that's feels like that's becoming grandfathered in as oh, it's it's just old and

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broken enough now that it can be mainstream. Because because banks, they have to adopt broken old

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technology, that's how it works. You know, they got a big Cobol mainframe and then run it for 15

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years. And they're like, Ah, Ethereum, this will do. I think a big part of that is just because

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that's where all the DeFi is like technically, the DeFi happens elsewhere, right? But Ethereum still

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holds something like 50% of all crypto funding, maybe even more than that. And so if there's

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anywhere they should try and get in, it's gotta be Ethereum, right? Like it.

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It genuinely is. But I've had some conversations like in the last while, where they've been like

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very casual, just like finding out what people are working on, trying to get a feel for like if

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research stuff that I'm working on dovetails with that and also just like practically from a company

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perspective, there's anything we do like consultancy or whatever that might tie in with that. Like I'm

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all fucking is. I can't remember the second half of that joke, somebody with big ears. Anyway,

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and I feel like the situations, you know, when you have that voice, like when you're just having

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like casual conversations, somebody says something and you're like, Ah, I can give you an idea here

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and I don't know how much that idea is worth. And I know you won't pay me for this idea because you

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don't understand why it's a good idea. Like for me to explain to you why this would be a good idea

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and potentially very profitable to you, I can't execute on it because of the situation that I'm

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in, you could execute on it, it wouldn't even cost you that much. It could be worth a lot of money

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to your company. But in order for like, I can't just give you the idea, like it's not that simple,

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like you'd also need to understand it, appreciate the opportunity and then execute on it. But like,

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you're like, there is no, there is no world in which I'm going to get paid for this idea.

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So should I just say it anyway? And I have one of those conversations a little while ago, where

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I just punted the idea out there into open space. And somebody else in the room was like, oh,

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like literally did the maths of like what they actually did get it. And then they were like,

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huh. And then the next time I met up with those people, they just casually were talking about

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that project, which is now like two months further along. And they're like, Oh, and of course, this

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part. And I was like, fuck, that's a bit I gave them. And I was like, Oh, out of interest, why are

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you guys, what's the, what's the use case there? Because you're not doing it was basically something

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to do with Dallas, essentially. And they were like, it doesn't seem like you're using that in

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the way that like, I think a lot of people would and they were like, Oh, no, because you know,

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you launch a token, right? If that ends up being worth a billion dollars, then we just made a billion

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dollars for free, right? And I was like, damn, they got both the completely DJN case that I would

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have made and the sensible case I would have made. And they threw away the sensible case,

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kept the DJN case. And if they make a billion dollars, I gave away a billion dollar idea for

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free. I can't believe this shit. But yeah, it was the reason the only reason I kind of referenced

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that is because it was interesting to me how if you're in a position where you can execute on a

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risky idea, and you're kind of covered from a regulation perspective, or you have a presence

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in the market where you know, you know the regulator, you have the lawyers, you have the

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advice, you can just execute an end thing that you think is within your risk tolerance. There's

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so much crazy shit you can do. And it's easiest to do on Ethereum, probably, like back to your point,

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short C. But the second half of that, though, which was that this idea, like somebody had to

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understand it or whatever. And like, I look at situations like that, where it's like, you can

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build it on Ethereum or YOLO, it's a bit harder, but you could just fucking launch your own chain.

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Like that entire example, like the DJN bit of it was like, we get away in which we can launch a

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token. And if it becomes worth something, then happy days, right? And you're like, when all of

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these banks realize that they can just start a blockchain, like they're going to jump on Cosmos

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or the SDK about five years too late. So it'll be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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I can just start this blockchain in like five minutes. And I can just throw Cosmos on top of

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it. Or I could throw an EVM on top of it even better because the validity is objectively better.

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We've lost that argument. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. There was a point in there somewhere.

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It's something like, it's so easy to, if you can execute on a really quite DJN idea and feel safe

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from a regulatory perspective, there's no reason why you can't execute on something

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slightly more DJN if it's just like launching a chain rather than launching an ERC-20, right?

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And when people work that out, we have a proliferation of blockchains now,

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shit is going to get completely out of hand. That's my feeling. When you talk to people in suits,

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they haven't even realized the power and potential of their own degeneracy yet. That's, I think, my point.

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Well, I think that that's going to get a leg up here soon with Eigenlayer and AVSs because those

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are spinning up just like the Cosmos summer of 2021. I think there's 70 AVSs so far on Eigenlayer.

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And not to be too negative on stream, but I'm pretty bearish on Eigenlayer right now just because

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I don't expect that its returns are going to be able to pay back the amount of stake going into it.

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And it's just going to get worse. There's just going to be more and more AVSs, just like an

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ICS. And whenever institutions realize how easy it is to spin up an AVS and how many

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validators are just going to grab onto it because it's the next name, oh man. It's ICS, but easier.

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So, okay, dumb question. Eigenlayer, what is technically that different from all the other

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DVT type solutions? Because that's what it is. It's decentralized liquid staking on top of

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heterogeneous blockchains, right? Something like that.

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I mean, it's using liquid staked Ethereum or Ethereum, native Ethereum, as its security protocol.

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So, if you have like LidoStakedEath, you can stake it to Eigenlayer and then validate for it. So,

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it doesn't have like a one-to-one of all Ethereum validators can secure a chain. It has to be actively

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restaked, but there's still a huge sum. It's still like day one, there was like $10 billion on Eigenlayer.

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And so, basically, it's creating like selective validator sets. I can't remember the AVS, something

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is something validator set. I can't remember the A word. And so, if you spin up an AVS, you just

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see it. Actively validated services, apparently. Okay, well, there you go. Yeah. So, I don't know

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how that's related to DVT. I think probably I was, I thought that the bit that is, I guess,

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covered by the Lido piece was actually part of the mechanism for Eigenlayer. But it's

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sounds like actually, their part is just the semantics of the validator sets.

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Yeah. Now, Eigenlayer makes a little bit of a distinction from ICS in that, in Eigenlayer,

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all validators can choose whether they want to support one or not. But from what we've seen so far,

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validators are just joining all of them. Because...

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This is going to be a shit show. Yeah.

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That's going to be a shit show. That's going to make a really shit show.

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Validators are joining all of them? What do you mean joining all of them?

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Being one of these many AVSs they can't. Exactly.

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Because like, how can I also join all of them?

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Yeah.

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Palkutu runs every single one and does a snapshot for every single one already.

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That's right. Dance trade.

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The hardest working is in turning not only the Cosmos now, but the entire of the Eigenverse.

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I'm not sure if that's a word. Anyway, so we're bullish on Eigenlayer.

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We are... Oh, apparently breaking news from Rama. The hub has halted.

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Yeah, well, we have that breaking news.

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And I'm feeling fine. Okay, cool. Right. If somebody wants to let us know how that pans out,

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so the show continues, that would be great. So other takeaways from consensus?

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Tons of ZK. Everybody's talking about ZK.

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Good. Love it. Love to see it. As long as it's not shitty rollouts, I'd love to see it.

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That was a big topic. Staking, huge topic. I think overall, there's a lot of talks about

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methods for Ethereum staking. It was a huge thing. What else? What else were big things?

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Should see. Regulation.

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Regulation. Yeah.

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Well, I think with, obviously with the Bitcoin and Ethereum piece, that was all new since

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last consensus. So there's a lot of discussion around what that means. And I think that's why we

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had a lot of talks with crypto experts at large institutions, which, okay, it's cool. It's good.

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Yeah. What else? I'm trying to go to what else were major themes? A lot of services chains.

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I thought a lot of Oracle's conversations and a lot of deep end. Oh, and AI. How the

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fuck did we forget about AI? Yeah.

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Jeez. That was like every goddamn. Yeah. So AI, there are a lot of, but actually a lot of, to

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be fair, a lot of different aspects of how a blockchain and AI work together.

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And there are some really cool implementations of the use of using blockchain as a payment method

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and a reward method for the use of models. And that's actually a really good use case, honestly.

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Versus like, hey, I buy an unlimited subscription to chat, GBT. But can all of us create models for

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specific things and have different ways to be able to identify which is the best model and have

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scoring structure and then have payment structure based on the use and value coming from that?

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That's a lore that's doing that, right?

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That's a lore that's doing that, right?

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There's a, yes, a lore is one of those that are doing that. But a lore has the model structure

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related to the actual creation of those, a lot of ability to be able to create those models

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and then be able to have methods for determining based on history what models best predicted

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based on time of day or other types of things or geography or like a ton of different things.

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And there's raw financial based on the ones that we saw. But that's a pretty cool way.

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Fecitiously, I mean, sounds good. The problem they're solving there is a marketplace, right?

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They're trying to create a marketplace for AI models. Why can they not do that with a market

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like a marketplace that they've just built in a technology and run?

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They can't. Yeah.

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They can't. I mean, you can make that case for like any almost everything though, right?

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Well, sure. So I guess the underlying assumption and question behind my

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physiatics question is what is the special source that the smart contracts are bringing to the table

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in terms of the incentive mechanisms behind it? Like, is there something that's

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that's fundamentally like low that works in a low trust environment or involves

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micropayments or does something well that blockchain to do well versus cold hard cash?

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I think it's the micropayments thing. So one of the reasons why I really like Akash

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for theoretically is how it doesn't really need to be theoretically like

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how I might theoretically like Akash. Yeah.

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I really like how it doesn't need to be Web 3, but instead it's really my vision of it is like

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it's an open source project that uses blockchain as its funding mechanism, right?

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Because open source historically has a really difficult time finding funding.

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There's a couple of methods like you can go through Patreon to get funding.

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GitHub now has subscriptions similar to Patreon and we subscribe to a couple of open source projects

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that we use like catty. We go through catty for that. But the fact that Akash can use its own

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token to get micropayments, as you said, and kind of bypass like visa fees and stuff, I think that's

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really cool. I think it's a really cool way to support open source. And I see that as a big

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benefit to Elora where let's say you ask one question, you have to pay, I don't know, 0.1 Elora

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or whatever. I'd go for that, kind of similar like Kagi where Kagi has like you buy credits

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for searching, for private searching. I like that idea. I think it's really cool.

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But so the point here, I guess, is that the fundamental problem that's being solved is

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micropayments, right? And in order to solve it, a foundation is selling you a token. I mean,

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you might buy it over an exchange, a dex or a sex, doesn't really matter. But essentially,

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there's an intermediary who has minted that, which is the foundation or the developers or whatever.

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They have created intermediation in order to sell you the payment to then do the thing.

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That is really, really interesting because one of the main things we're supposed to be doing here

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with blockchain is disintermediation, right? Which is splitting, taking away B2B and being like B2C

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or C2C type interactions. Everything is marketplace, everything is incentives,

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smart contracts will do the rest, right? That's business to consumer and consumer to consumer.

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Yes, sorry. Yeah. So basically removing middleman, if you like, disintermediation, removing middleman.

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But what we're actually doing is going, well, we're adding a different middleman with potentially

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a lower or different cost basis or cost structure, right? The cash system is, the cost structure is

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different from AWS. It isn't necessarily cheaper. And you also need to have AKT, which conveniently

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will also make money for the ecosystem of people that depend on that, the validator developers,

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the whatever, who are all middleman actually. And as validators, we are part of the intermediation

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of these services. So I guess it's just like a continuing thing that I guess I find pretty

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interesting is like one of the founding use cases and things that both academics and people who are

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kind of theoretically, my or theoretically ideologically minded in the blockchain space,

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do talk a lot about disintermediation. And actually, what we're doing is like,

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we're just shifting around the agents a lot of the time. The thing that disintermediates is cash,

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right? Private money doesn't because if you spend with a Visa card, right, Visa making bank on that.

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And usually the people you're buying from, the cool coffee shop you go to,

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Shulze, I'm guessing, it's probably quite a cool coffee shop. The vendor might be sucking up the

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payment charge, right? Because people expect to pay on the card, right? But by paying cash, I mean,

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obviously, the government is an intermediary there because they are back in the cash, but

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these are in the leap there, are they? I mean, that's an interesting point. So it's like,

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the question is, is it more beneficial as a team to have indirect intermediaries, which would be the

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validation stuff or direct? You can see you pay Visa 40 cents plus 3% for every transaction versus

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how much our validator selling tokens drawing down the price. Right. At which point, you then

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eventually get to the point where you're like, well, hang on, you don't need a token at all.

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You just need something to drive a way of building an incentive system so that you as

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developers get paid, right? You don't need a VALSET necessarily. That's also another assumption.

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Don't need a token, don't need a chain probably because you don't worry about double spending

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if you haven't got a token. Don't need a VALSET. Blockchain undermines itself, I think,

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in a lot of these use cases is the shower thought I've been having lately. I think you need smart

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contracts. I think smart contracts are sourced. I think that's actually a really nice source. I think

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the bit that's actually good, the blockchain is good for is ensuring the smart contracts don't do

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weird double spending shit or essentially like, what's the word I'm looking for? The thing that

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takes ages when a Cosmos chain starts, what is that? The checks. What are they called?

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Invariance. Invariance checks. Right. Exactly. Invariance system integrity checks. The thing

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that blockchain is quite good for is that kind of stuff. There's the scaffolding you can put

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around like a smart contract VM. But all the token and all that other stuff, I don't know, man. I

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think as long as a smart contract can deal with an external representation or value,

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which is purely in the hands of the programmer, man. Anyway, that was a huge theme.

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Anyway, to bring it away. I was liking this path. I thought that was a pretty hard take. That was

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pretty interesting. I believe in disintermediation, I think is a cool idea. And I think like,

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it's a cool idea. One of the things that I've, as I've been working with people who are working

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on cash systems and who are very privacy conscious, I've started using cash more because I've been

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brainwashed. And in 2024, try and live a week using cash. That is my advice to you.

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It's brutal. Yeah. Seriously, this is a good experiment with how much financial intermediation

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is actually present in your life. Try and use cash for a few days. I've tried to do this recently.

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You hit a brick wall very, very quickly. You start having to go and shop at different places,

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to buy your coffee at different places, to buy your lunch at different places.

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I think the analogy kind of holds true for blockchains and all that sort of stuff,

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except that you literally hit the brick wall as soon as you try and move from one blockchain

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to another. And like, IBC is good for that, right? You can have, but it makes you realize

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like how insanely complex this can get if like, essentially every blockchain is a walk garden,

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right? And I guess that's why the attraction of all these Eigenleider type things is that

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they just go, just use ETH. ETH is the US dollar of blockchains. It's like, no, no, no. ETH is a

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shit version of the US dollar that you should use a stable coin before you use ETH, although you

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maybe shouldn't use a stable coin for other reasons. But I don't know. Whatever. Shout out to us.

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It's sad because I've been trying to get away from cash for so long and now that we're,

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we're now, now that I love, I love not carrying cash. Like that was like one of my favorite things,

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I'm trying to get away from that. And then now I, for that, you know, for all that desire

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of creating the world that, God damn it, you're right. They're like, we're, there's so many

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intermediaries between those types of things. There's a, there's a really interesting article

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actually in the Financial Times, I think it was this week about how, so we talked to hear

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him before a few times about challenger banks and stuff like that. There's something that,

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I mean, that has happened in the States, obviously, but like there was a big, a big springboard of a

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lot of it happening in the UK a few years ago. And a lot of it was driven by people who were

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kind of inspired by Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to improve traditional banking and user experiences

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and get things on mobile. And what's happened now is all the big banks have caught up.

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And there's this really interesting conversation. And there's a great article in the FT about this

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this week. I'm sorry, I can't remember the exact title, but if you, if you look for it,

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you'll find it, it's about challenger banks, Monzo, Starling, Revolute, stuff like that.

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And they, they basically take some user usage numbers and they, they, they hypothesize that

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a lot of people use these challenger banks have a really good user experience, essentially as like

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cash clearing, but they actually keep their money and their, their like salary or whatever will go

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into a traditional, like what you call a high street bank, like a big bank. One of the ones

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that's come over to the UK recently, there's apparently massively growing is Chase, right,

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which is a high street bank for you guys. And what they, they kind of theorize that maybe,

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you know, these, these, these new challenges have actually done very, very well with getting people's

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hearts and minds, but not so well in them actually fully trusting them, you know, with their money.

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And what they say is that then, you know, the difficulty here is that in order to actually

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get the, the marginal amount of money that makes these banks make their money, they need to be more

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like the traditional banks and they don't have that traction and don't have those revenue sources

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for, for lending, essentially, that those bigger, bigger traditional banks do. So what they've started

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doing is increasingly thinking about other more, I don't know, tech world focused ways of, of, of

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monetizing. And of course, that eventually means selling your data, right? It means analyzing

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and selling your data. And it's kind of interesting to see like the incentives have played out that

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way, right? That they, they came into it being like, ah, we'll do better user experience. That

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means that we'll take market share from the traditional banks, and then we can monetize

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like a traditional bank, right? We just, we lend, we make a load of money, everybody's happy.

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You know, that's it. We just, we saw a gap in the market, we took it, we killed an old dinosaur.

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But what's happened is that they, the, the incumbents have moved just quickly enough that

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they didn't fully die. And they've just taken their place back in the market, which has left the,

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the kind of innovators being too big to be bought out because they're worth a lot of money, too,

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too big to fail because they're regulated and their, their deposits are backed, but too small to

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really grow much bigger other than expanding to other markets. And that's very expensive. And

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there's different regulation in different markets. And it's like really, again, back to the

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intermediate, intermediation point, it's kind of again, a fascinating thing with you. Like,

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ah, yeah, just financial data and stuff. Anyway, but yeah, I live in hope that we're only a couple

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of years away or a few years away from it being possible to do actual digital cash systems,

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where you can, you know, pay with something like cash and not hand over all that data. That'd be

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nice. I've been kind of watching this, the same thing you're talking about, flow in different

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paths for, for two banks that I use, Brex and Mercury. Mercury, I guess kind of going through

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the same path and their choice for like how to monetize further is originally they're only for

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businesses and now they've added in personal personal is like $200 a year, right? So really not that

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much, but they know that their clientele is like tech employees, right? And so they're like,

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God $200 a year, like we'll definitely get our stuff paid off for that. And Brex has gotten the

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opposite in that it's offboarding people. Like we have money in Brex, but they're like, you're not

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using it enough. So we're just going to start kicking people out. Yeah, right? Yeah, they're

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not making enough. Yeah, exactly. So why are they offboarding you because you don't have a big enough

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deposit in there or? And I'm not using it enough. Yeah. So I have deposit in there to kind of like

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split up my funds, my emergency funds. But it's not like it's not actual utilization is high enough.

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Not that there's not enough deposit, the utilization isn't high enough. So

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it's not because they charge you every time you do a transfer or something.

381
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:59,040
They don't. So like in theory, it should just be totally fine. But maybe it is the data thing.

382
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:05,120
They're not getting any data for me. So get out of here. So I'm pulling all my assets from Brex.

383
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,920
Yeah. Well, Brex also, I don't like the, I mean, the banking themselves don't make any money out,

384
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,840
but like we use Brex card for a bunch of things, right? So they take a percentage off of that,

385
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,440
like, because it's a master card, but it's really, it's, but it's cleared out daily. So they make

386
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,480
they make something off of that. They have like, now there's started to do obviously invoice payments

387
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,520
where they take a piece out of the invoice. So there's no money in banking, like there's no money

388
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:34,000
in banking. So now it's all these auxiliary services, either transactions or not this even

389
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,480
I've been wires, right? It's got to be the transaction based things. So like we actually

390
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,040
moved because I used to do all like own credit card and do like expense reports on that kind of

391
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,360
stuff in, but I don't do it anymore. Like we just do all corporate now. It's helped because

392
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,960
we're pushing so much through like those types of cards that, that even they get cleared out

393
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,920
daily, they're still like a good amount of transactions associated that right? And that's

394
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,080
where they make their money, not just cash sitting in there. So we do what you do in Brex,

395
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,240
it's somewhere else in a different bank. So I know I'm on a list, right? Cause it's just sitting

396
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:07,040
there. It's like, there's a, it's an, oh, shit bank. In case the other one shuts down, right?

397
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,600
That, that there's an, oh, shit bank associated to it. And then like, we'll see if I get the same

398
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,120
thing because they're like, Hey, you're not using all these different services that we use. And

399
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:20,480
that's where we make our money type of thing. It's crazy. We have our oh, shit fun in a bank. We have

400
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:27,360
to pay, pay a business. A monthly fee for? Yeah. Yeah. Which isn't bad either. Like I actually

401
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:33,440
wouldn't mind that. I know it's like, it's very low. It's like $20 a month, something like that.

402
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,960
Like it's like tiny, it's a tiny amount. And I'm just like, well, then they're never going to kick

403
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:42,320
us out if we just, we just hand that over. It's the, you know, we also have safe deposit boxes

404
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,040
and things with them as well as a business, you know, for, for ledgers and all sorts of other

405
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:53,040
stuff. So we're just like, okay, we're throwing them reliably, maybe $1,000 a year total,

406
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,880
probably less safe deposit boxes on that much money. But it's just like,

407
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,360
but like chasing stuff like that. Like, I mean, if you're paying, you know, even if you have a

408
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,240
checking account that's 20 bucks a month, you're off that list, right? They don't care. They're

409
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:08,320
making their 20 bucks. You know what I mean? Yeah. I guess that that's the scale they're working at,

410
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,280
like $20. That's enough. Yeah, more than enough. That's enough. Yeah. Like I don't even know what

411
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,440
I don't even know what Brex makes office and fees. I think it's the idea that, that, that they know

412
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,840
that we're using the platform. So therefore, as we grow, they grow. I think it's probably it, right?

413
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,120
And they don't want squatters. Like they don't want accounts. Cause I assume they probably look at the,

414
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,640
maybe the draw per account. So if it's accounts are just sitting there not doing anything, they

415
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,520
probably look at it and say, Hey, you know, it's not worth it. So what's, what's interesting is that

416
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,520
one of the, one of the challenger banks, which I think has expanded to the US now, which is called

417
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:48,400
Monzo. We have a, we have a business account with them. Manzo. Manzo. But the, for the personal

418
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:54,320
accounts, which they do offer, they're, to, to kind of what we were talking about earlier about,

419
00:36:54,320 --> 00:37:00,080
like other ways of monetizing, they have a thing you can opt into now. It's like,

420
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,000
it's like cashback, you know, cashback rewards with a lot of banks or credit cards.

421
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,600
But they sell your data. They explicitly go like, here's the deal, you'll get cashback in

422
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,000
much situations. We'll sell your data. And you know, you look at it.

423
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,000
I thought that that was illegal in the EU.

424
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,680
You, you have to opt into it. You have to specifically opt in and you can specifically

425
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,960
opt out at any time and you can request deletions. It's all covered within GDPR. But I looked at,

426
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,160
I looked at it, did like some kind of back of the packet maths on like, yeah, the kind of

427
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,520
shit we expense on the company card, which ain't, ain't lots. And the kind of stuff that I would

428
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,640
expense if I did it for a personal account. And I was just like, I don't see how this,

429
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,960
let's see how this ends up. But, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe, I guess I've never really

430
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,000
used a credit card with cashback. So I don't know, I don't have a frame of reference for,

431
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:58,240
well, I don't, I've never had a credit card either. So, Jesus, fucking, I don't believe it.

432
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:05,760
I don't believe in it. I don't believe in debt. I like, I believe in certain types of debt,

433
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,000
but I don't believe in, I don't believe in debt to a financial institution where possible. So,

434
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:18,080
you know, so the reason why I use credit cards is mostly because if I use a credit card and like,

435
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:23,840
it gets skimmed, which happens way more than it should, then with a credit card, I just say,

436
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,000
no, and the bank goes, okay, well, I guess I'll just reverse that and then I'll send you a new

437
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:38,400
card. But you have chip and pin, right? We have chip, pin, no. Not pin. For debit,

438
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:44,160
yes. Chip and pin for debit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you get card skim, they still have

439
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,600
your, they don't have your pin number. So, for debit, right? For credit, for credit, just basically,

440
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,880
I mean, even chip, even chip, they're not going to skim it, right? Unless, well, that's not entirely

441
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,480
true. If you, I mean, now it's tap, right? So tap, you're not going to really get a good skim,

442
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,680
you're not going to get a, you're really not going to get a skim, you're not going to get skimmed

443
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,120
off of that, right? But if you're sliding the card into a reader, then yes, it'll, it will pull

444
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,800
it off. There's still a metal, there's still a, there's still a magnet strip on the back, right?

445
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,800
It's not just, it's not just a chip. So it'll just pull it right off the strip.

446
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:21,360
So here, what, what gradually happened was when, so chip and pin, I want to say chip and pin came

447
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:27,440
in in 2008, 2008. It's been a while. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And they, basically, after about

448
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:34,160
2011, they generally just, I think, didn't activate the strip anymore. Like it's physically there on

449
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,960
a lot. I have to look actually, is it even there? I'm not even sure. Like I know that if you,

450
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:46,320
if you get a strip on a card from a challenger bank, like Monzo or whatever, the strip is deactivated.

451
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,400
That would be great. It's cost-matched. Here it's still, yeah, it really should be chip only.

452
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,040
Like maybe, you know, the transition times here are like fucking decades, right?

453
00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:00,160
Well, yeah, I've had the strip on mine in the last week. Yeah.

454
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,880
Chip doesn't work. Like I have to go parking something that I have to. So

455
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,280
that's why I use credit card for that protection. And that's the main reason.

456
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,280
Yeah. And I mean, I'm sure you do too. Like we paid off, we use cash back cards, we

457
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,880
paid off every month. So it's just kind of like free money. If quote unquote, if you don't count

458
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,920
your data and your sales information and where you buy and where you shop and how often you shop and

459
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,440
if you don't count that, then you have to count. If you're getting that information anyway.

460
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:26,160
If you're getting that information anyway. About your life.

461
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,840
If you're using a debit card, there's no way they're not getting that anyway.

462
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:30,560
Oh yeah, sure they are.

463
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,640
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're there. Yeah.

464
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:39,520
So they'd be doing the debit card. It depends on the terms of service if you're a bank. Like a

465
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:46,640
traditional high street bank. I think it would be less certain actually because of

466
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,600
data protection rules because they'd have to get you to sign stuff.

467
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,000
In the EU. In the US.

468
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,040
Well, we're not in the EU anymore, but we do have the rules grandfather.

469
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,640
Okay. Okay. Fair.

470
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,120
We have freedom now. We have freedom and it has, as it turns out, no economic value.

471
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,440
That's not true. I think there's some negative value there.

472
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,600
Yeah. Okay. That's not positive.

473
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,760
Yeah. What else from consensus? It was good to see everybody away from the show.

474
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,800
It was good. We saw a lot of folks actually. That was really nice.

475
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,560
Yeah. It sucked to not be there. That was kind of.

476
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,120
Yeah. It was hot as shit.

477
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,000
On most days, we had two units. One one didn't have any working air conditioning,

478
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:30,960
which was fucking awesome.

479
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,240
Did you have as many mosquito bites as I do?

480
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:37,440
I've got mosquito bites just absolutely everywhere. They're fucking everywhere.

481
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,960
You just have to know that you are feeling unwell. Have you got malaria?

482
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,440
It could be. I have a spider bite on my fucking palm and shit. Yeah. I came back like bitten up.

483
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:53,600
Oh. Go ahead. No. One night, the three of us were hanging out late.

484
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,560
We had this fire on, which is like a stupid gas fire. We're burning these useless citronella

485
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:05,920
candles. And then we're out there and useless citronella candles. Trying to keep the mosquitoes

486
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,520
away. And they were everywhere. They were all over the place. It was dark in there. We couldn't

487
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,960
see anything. And then Schultz was like, I think I'm getting bit up. I'm like, I think I am too.

488
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,560
And we go inside and we're like, I'm just covered.

489
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,160
Yeah. And they're the little mosquitoes. You couldn't even see them. And they're working at

490
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,880
least they have the decency to be like this big so you can go.

491
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,240
Right. Right. Yeah. Like, I might yeah, my elbows and everything else. So we saw, we saw,

492
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,120
yeah, we saw like a lot of teams. We saw the seida team was there. Peter's in chat right now.

493
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,240
It's good to see Peter. And we saw like, like I said before from from like traditional cosmos

494
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:46,480
teams like Jack was down there and Shane and Ethan and like there's a lot of good like the

495
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,480
Allora team we met. Seida team we met. Sorry. Buckman.

496
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:57,120
Yeah. I really appreciate talking to Jay from say, I think that was from say, because yeah,

497
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:02,320
I haven't actually met the seida team in person. And not Jay specifically, I haven't really talked

498
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:08,320
to them. Phil, I talked with fairly regularly. Yeah, maybe every few days. But Jay, I've never

499
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:15,440
really interacted with too much. Neither. Yeah. That was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, it was great.

500
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,560
And like, it was nice to be able to see different teams and like put them together. Like, had you

501
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,280
guys know each other like that type of thing? That was really fun. But yeah, that was that was

502
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:29,200
really cool. Then obviously soon we saw Bosco from Silk Nodes was there. Obviously, Shultz and

503
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:35,440
Null flew in, which is reason he's not here tonight because I left him Saturday morning.

504
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,760
He was there for a couple more days, right? He flew Monday, I think. Monday US time. I think he

505
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:48,720
landed like what this morning, Thursday morning Australian time. And so like he was dragging ass.

506
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:53,440
Like just for those. This is a long day. He did it for such a short time as well. He must have been

507
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,440
jet lagged the entire time. No, actually did pretty well. I think coming coming this way,

508
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,680
it's a little bit better because you just like he just stayed up. You know what I mean? So yeah,

509
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,640
yeah, really, really, really long day coming back home from the US is always easier than going out

510
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,720
for sure. Right. Right. So he's going. So basically he's yeah. So it's a little bit rougher

511
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:14,400
going the other way. Whenever I go to the West Coast, I'm always just so fucked. I can't do

512
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,760
anything. And then it's like, oh, it's time to come home. And I'm like, what the fuck? I've only

513
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:27,200
just got over the jet lag. And then he just like, I once came back from the West Coast and I went

514
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:34,080
into work that morning. Like I did a red eye back from the West Coast to the US. Go off the plane,

515
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,640
got on a train, just literally went straight in like I just had to carry on just went,

516
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:44,480
walked straight into the office. Yeah. It's like, get me fucking coffee. Let's go. They're like,

517
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,280
wait, haven't you just got back from holiday? It's like, yeah, like two hours ago, let's go.

518
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,320
You just gotta fight through it. Yeah. They're like, yeah, we're not really sure we want any

519
00:44:54,320 --> 00:45:01,120
touch production service today, actually. I'm like, let's go. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine.

520
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,000
I was partying with John Lee Hooker last night. It's totally cool.

521
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:10,960
Was that last time? I think actually that might have been the time where it was, yeah, there was

522
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:19,760
like, there was a thing in that chapel that's in Oakland. And John Lee Hooker's grave is there.

523
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:26,560
And I was stoned as fuck. And I was just leaning against this thing. And then I just like looked

524
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,200
behind me and it said John Lee Hooker. And I was like, holy shit. I was like, holy shit. Is that

525
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,840
John Lee Hooker? And this guy literally just walks past me. It was just like, how many John Lee

526
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,960
Hookers are that kind of thing? He just keeps walking. I was like, yes, it's John Lee Hooker.

527
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:46,240
Huh? That's funny. Because it wasn't like a small, because there were some like,

528
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,360
because it was like a big public mausoleum, I think. They're a lot like these really small,

529
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,440
little cubby holes. I don't know what you're doing. Yeah. It's like a little, just a small building,

530
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:00,480
right? Yeah. For really, really small little cubby holes for the little dogs. And then there were

531
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:06,080
like big plaques for the big dogs. And this was like a big dog plaque. So I was like, whoever

532
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:12,240
John Lee Hooker was, he was a big dog. And there's only one, there was only one John Lee Hooker who

533
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:17,440
is the biggest dog of the John Lee Hookers. And also a big dog among the general population.

534
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,800
So anyway, yeah, I guess that must be the John Lee Hooker. All that random person lied to me.

535
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:32,000
But yeah. Yeah, that's him. Yeah, that's him. It does. It was toilet paper magnet.

536
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,880
Inventor of the perforated ripstrip. You know what I'm talking about? That was John Lee.

537
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,560
That was what made him his buddy. I heard one of those the other day where it was like,

538
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,480
you know, like improbably insanely wealthy people. It was something like, you know,

539
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,840
how some fruit comes in a bag where the hole is just big enough, you can kind of get the tip of a

540
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:04,880
finger in and then it just rips. But the actual, the way the material is weaved is like in a double

541
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:11,520
interlocked hexagon. So the bag, the fruit is actually really strong and light until you

542
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,280
put your finger through and just bam, and you just get your oranges out. Yeah.

543
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,400
What the fuck does that do a John Lee Hooker? My point is like,

544
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:24,960
so I made the joke about the toilet paper perforation being a zillionaire.

545
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,680
And I'm like, I was picking up what you're putting down. The other John Lee Hooker.

546
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,720
Yeah. The other John Lee Hooker. Jonathan Lee Hooker, who created the ripable orange bag.

547
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:41,440
The ripable toilet seat, the ripable toilet paper strip, the ripable orange bag. He made a

548
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:49,440
lot of ripable items. And all right. So any other, any other follow up items from consensus?

549
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,760
Any other final thoughts before we move off this fucking topic?

550
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,560
I'll add one bug thought. I got woken up by a cockroach landing on my face in the middle of the day.

551
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,160
We did not have the most amazing Airbnb. I won't say that.

552
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:07,360
So the thing is right in the run up to consensus, there was like this, oh, we've got this sick Airbnb.

553
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:13,200
It's going to be totally awesome. Was it just like, was it just like that expectation reality

554
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,920
picture where it's like a horse and the, the, the back half is really detailed. The front half is

555
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:22,800
just like kid's sketch. We went after, I went after a place that was like really walkable to

556
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,240
everything, which was, which that place was like, we could walk up the sixth street. There was coffee

557
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,960
and liquor store nearby. Those are, that's only two of the eggs you looked up outside of the two

558
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,440
things I looked up. There was coffee and liquor store nearby. On top of that, there was also,

559
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,760
there was also nice restaurants. There was, yeah.

560
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,920
There was liquor store at the basement fray. That's all I looked for.

561
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,280
All right. This is the widest place I've been chosen. Oh yeah. And the venues are on the corner.

562
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,240
Oh, okay. Right. Yeah.

563
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,680
And the venues on the court. We like, we walked from the venue back to the house many times.

564
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,720
But that was really nice because I feel at East Denver, like half the time I'm in a freaking Uber,

565
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,160
like it, like everything is 20 minutes away and you got to like plan out because these two events

566
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,920
are all shit. We're going to sit in a car for 25 minutes, right? And it's just like, it's just,

567
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:03,600
it's just exhausting. And so to be able to walk back and forth, that was really nice.

568
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:08,000
Like if you walk from the venue to the house in like 15 minutes, like if you hauled ass,

569
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,880
that was cool. So the only issue with that is everyone in those houses in that area are either,

570
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,520
like, they're lifers. Like they've been there forever and the houses are really run down and like,

571
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,640
and like, they're just beat up in the, the house is worth nothing, but the lot's worth like a million

572
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:29,360
dollars. Or they convert them into like VRBO, Airbnb's, and they're run by organizations,

573
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,320
not people, right? They're run by companies through buying one, $2 million places and turning them

574
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,720
into place and they put no money into them. And so this place, this place was for sale,

575
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:42,960
which I didn't look at Zillow. Sometimes I do look at see, like, if, see if the rental is also for

576
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,720
sale, that's usually a red flag. That means they're not putting any money into it. And this place,

577
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:50,320
they haven't put any money into it. Like they probably did it like maybe five years ago.

578
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,520
Their conditioners were kind of shitty. The outside was kind of beat up. Like it wasn't awful,

579
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,000
right? But there wasn't really like, it wasn't amazing. And then the, the AC units and one of

580
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,360
the units was totally broken. I've been arguing with them, trying to get a refund and stuff,

581
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,600
which was really disappointing because like John and like a couple other guys from

582
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,680
Artifact couldn't stick around because it was miserable. It just didn't work. So,

583
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:17,040
so yeah, anyway, so that was, it's kind of, it's like a trade off between those two things.

584
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,920
So next time we'll, I think, I wasn't really, we looked at, I looked at it for like a day.

585
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:26,000
Like I threw some options out and this, the place looked fine. And that was next time,

586
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,440
next time you should throw, you need to throw a bull market for the $80 around.

587
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,480
It was still fucking expensive. Don't get me wrong. Like,

588
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,520
Oh yeah, it was still expensive. Yeah, it was still expensive. Like it's,

589
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,080
I think we, I don't know what it was like grand and night or something like that,

590
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:44,160
but across six of us isn't awful, but, but it was still, it was still like, I don't know.

591
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,720
I think you're right. I think it didn't, should have looked harder and we should have like found a

592
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:54,960
place that, that, that was, maybe we could have given up on the location and, and try to find

593
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,040
something else. Cause the location was, we were kind of what I was driving off of. So next time

594
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,200
we'll find something else. Yeah. Welcome to Game of Nodes, the short term, let's,

595
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:10,160
that's right. Podcast. That's right. I just realized that I did the stick at the top of the

596
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,000
show and at no point did they then actually correct and say, welcome to Game of Nodes.

597
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,440
This is how you could tell I've not done the podcast in two weeks. Oh wait, maybe you didn't.

598
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,560
No, I didn't. Let's say. All right. Want to do some news?

599
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,800
Let's do some news to do. Everybody's going to crack their knuckles, adjust, you know,

600
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:35,120
get the necks all loose. Yeah, we would say this, this sloth thing, we all missed that,

601
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:40,400
unless you, did you guys get on the ground floor of the sloth? No. I'm not a sloth holder.

602
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:49,600
No, no, no. They're on, they're on MTIA, TIA, Celestia, which is. Celestia.

603
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,480
Yeah. And they are selling pretty well on Stargate. So it's actually just looking,

604
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,800
it actually is bouncing back because before, it was higher than this before. It was like,

605
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:06,640
I think right now the floor price is 4,000 bucks. It's 5,000. Just like, yeah, like basically

606
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:12,320
4,900, 4,900, 5,000. Do you ever see the film Blood Diamond? Yes. I am going somewhere with this.

607
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:17,680
So you know, like he keeps saying, like Leonardo DiCaprio's character keeps saying,

608
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:23,200
this is Africa. He keeps saying, TIA. Whenever something happens, like he keeps saying to,

609
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,320
I can't even remember the journalist, she's a journalist, isn't she? Whenever he's

610
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:34,080
trying to explain something really fucked up, he's just like, oh, TIA. And every time I see

611
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:40,560
TIAs in the Celestia ticket, in my head, it pauses in Leonardo DiCaprio's South African accent

612
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:48,320
from the film Blood Diamond. I just hit TIA. And I can't take that token seriously. And I'm just

613
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:54,080
like, people keep making money off it. And I'm just like, blood.

614
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,320
That's a sick reference. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's, this is, this is how broken

615
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,920
I am as a person. I look at a thing and I'm like, because it faintly reminds me of a one

616
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:09,360
liner from a 15 year old movie, I cannot get involved in this project and I will not get

617
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:14,800
involved in this project. There's been some pretty big sales recently, a couple outliers at

618
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:22,240
$8,000 and $9,000. But there isn't pretty good. Yeah, there's a lot of fixed price offers. People

619
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:27,520
are buying last sold was around five grand. There's been one around 5500 things like that.

620
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:33,120
So floor price is high. Yeah, there's been some pretty high rarity ones sold to.

621
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:39,280
What's the floor price on a bad kid these days? I think it is about, let me take a look at it

622
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:45,040
real quick. Because if the floor on a sloth is higher than the floor on a bad kid, then...

623
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,720
Oh, it definitely is. Yeah, floor price on bad kids right now is $1,800. So it's about 40%

624
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:59,520
Why? Why is it so popular? I mean, yeah. There's also, there's also 2500 of them versus 10,000

625
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:05,520
bad kids. I think if we did an NFT collection of tulips, do you reckon it would take off?

626
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,120
As long as we spell it weird or yeah, I don't know.

627
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,560
Like, okay, so they have sunglasses. So what right, my perspective here is that like,

628
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:21,120
I've been working on some stuff recently and I've been reflecting on the fact that in all,

629
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,560
in my whatever we're on now, four years in crypto, something like that,

630
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,200
every time I've had a clever idea, I've worked on it for a long period of time and made no money

631
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:36,720
off it. Every time I had a dumb idea, the dumbest things I've done have been the most profitable.

632
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:43,040
The things that I've done have taken literally the least effort have tended to be the most profitable.

633
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:50,640
Except for gaming nodes. Except, no, gaming nodes. That's low dumb. That's high dumb, low revenue.

634
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:57,360
No, because we've got business off of gaming nodes. Gaming nodes is what gaming nodes when

635
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,640
few activities that has definitively paid for itself actually.

636
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,960
That's true. That's true. Actually, on a variety of axes, game of notes,

637
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:12,240
that's right, paid for itself because, but anyway, I digress. The point is that I'm not

638
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:17,520
thinking dumb enough. And so I'm just like, okay, what if NFT collection of tulips, there we are,

639
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:24,960
bam, little meta joke. And then we move on, right? Just makes my rug pull collection.

640
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:33,280
And Mad Scientist was the other one that was on Lesmosis, I think. I've been watching that too.

641
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:39,360
It's kind of flattening out, but I thought so. There's some, this is, I don't know,

642
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:44,960
Robert's going to correct me. I thought this was the first cross chain NFT mint of some sort.

643
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,800
I don't know. I feel dumb. Something like that. I feel dumb all the time.

644
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:56,000
Yeah. Ooh, here's a news item. I've heard that Mars is going to spin down its validator set and

645
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:01,760
become a smart contract on Neutron. I did hear about that. Yeah. How about that?

646
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:07,920
The question is, will it do that before we deactivate our Mars validator, which we have

647
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:14,000
we've had on the pending piles since March. You don't care very much when you won't even

648
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:20,080
deactivate it. It involves not going to let you out of a bank vault. So not an ICF chain,

649
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:26,800
a smart contract on an ICF chain. Yeah. I mean, I think, so I mean, this totally

650
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:33,680
not facetiously. I think that's courage. That's capital C courage. That's like,

651
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,440
we should do the same for Chihuahua, except that should just go to Dow Dow.

652
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:45,120
And it does another chains. I'm a huge fan. I mean, yeah, I mean, why not Osmosis though?

653
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,880
I think that's the more interesting reason because Mars originally, from memory correctly,

654
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,360
was supposed to only be deployed on Osmosis, right? That's right. That was their main satellite.

655
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,040
The fact that they're not choosing Osmosis for that, I think it's utterly fascinating.

656
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:02,000
Yeah. I mean, what the fuck is Mars at this point? Like, that's a great question.

657
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,880
Well, I mean, the funny part too is that Mars was intended to just be like a dead

658
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:12,480
chain with a smart contract that Mars was put into, right? So why did they do a chain originally in

659
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,680
the first place aside from hopefully trying to make some money because they got rugged by the

660
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:27,840
terror crash? Yeah. And the end result of that is that it's been a wildly unprofitable project to be

661
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:35,040
a part of. So I remember this coming up a while ago, actually, I had to go look. So this was back

662
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:42,400
in November, right? Did they approve it? Is it happening? I don't do what was what approved?

663
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,840
Mars being one down? Did they put it like a governance structure that they're going to

664
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,760
make a decision associated with this or what were they doing? So I've only read a tweet so far.

665
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,880
I was like, the plan for how to unravel from the team. I don't know that there's been a governance

666
00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:01,840
thing yet. Okay. Yeah, I did see that in the, it was like back last year, I remember, but this is

667
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:07,200
proposed migrating mission control to Neutron, which I thought kind of meant moving at all, but

668
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,320
maybe it doesn't. I'll put a note, I'll put a link to the show notes in that. Yeah. I mean, it's

669
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:17,280
actually, I guess, I mean, we always joke about half these chains should be smart contracts. And so

670
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:25,600
this one is showing that that's accurate. Yeah. I mean, we could go further and say that half of

671
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:31,280
these chains could be smart contracts and half of these smart contracts could be not existing.

672
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:37,760
And they actually wouldn't have any less value because all of it is completely imaginary along

673
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:43,760
with their use case. And once again, I would say there'd be more value in having never existed,

674
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:48,160
because so much money has gotten into like server costs and stuff. Yeah. I mean, I think the real

675
00:58:48,160 --> 00:59:01,360
IQ 9000 plays, it's about to war games 1985. What a curious game. The only way to win is not to play.

676
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:07,600
Ramos says Delphi Digital invested in Neutron, Astroport and Mars, which makes sense. That's

677
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:14,400
why they obviously move that towards Neutron. Yes, follow the original statement to follow the

678
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:19,840
money. Well, that was well, Mars was far before Neutron, right? So now, I guess that original

679
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:25,200
goal of that launch and now where that should be, I guess that totally makes sense now.

680
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,640
So we have a couple of the news items. There's that that Texas Stock Exchange thing is kind of

681
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:42,880
funny. Is it meaningful at all? So this news item BlackRock and Citadel team up, raise $120 million

682
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:50,160
doesn't seem like a lot of money, just in my opinion. To create a new Texas Stock Exchange

683
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:56,080
of plans to take on the new on the two big New York Stock Exchanges, the plans to be Pro Crypto

684
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:02,320
and this the current BTC and ETFs among others they're looking to get approval for. This reminds

685
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,480
me a little bit. So recently, you know, there's the you know, in golf, the Saudis

686
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:12,880
started an alternate golf league and basically bought the whole thing. Recently, they tried to

687
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:20,080
do the same to pro cycling and they were like, we have got $240 million and we are going to start a

688
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:25,760
new cycling league. And then anybody who knows anything about cycling goes, okay, in your

689
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:32,400
screnadiers granted the biggest budget in cycling 50 million euro per year. There are like whatever

690
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:39,360
18 World Tour teams granted not with the same budgets, but $240 million. That's like 180 million

691
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,840
euros. Well, you can have four teams, what they're going to race around in the desert.

692
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:50,960
And bear in mind that if you compete in an alternative league that's not approved by the UCI,

693
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,080
you don't ride the Tour de France, which is like the third most viewed sporting event in the world

694
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,640
and the only one that matters to every single World Tour team. In fact, they have to ride it,

695
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,000
otherwise they lose their license. So what are you going to do? Like,

696
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,280
fuck you. It's the third most watched sporting event in the world.

697
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:10,640
Something like that. Yeah. It's like,

698
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:17,120
the viewership of the Tour de France globally is really big, like bigger than you would expect.

699
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:23,920
You mean within 500 miles of France? No. Globally, I don't think Asia gives a shit,

700
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,120
South America doesn't get shit. I know the US is going to give a shit.

701
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:32,800
I think what like this? You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong.

702
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,760
After land, after land, number two. And it's decisively number two.

703
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:43,040
Yeah. Really? 2023 World Cup of soccer was number one. Number two was Tour de France with

704
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:48,960
$3.5 billion. Third will be the number three. Now this is the surprising one, cricket.

705
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:53,360
Yeah. No, I wouldn't. That's not surprising. India. Yeah, that's not surprising. Yeah.

706
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,240
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, the World Cup was easy.

707
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:02,080
And the IPL was above the Tour de France. I would have guessed that.

708
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:08,960
No, Tour de France is massive. I think you don't. Yeah, it's huge. It's a massive,

709
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,880
massive sporting event. I know. I believe that. I didn't think it was number two in that list.

710
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:17,280
I would think it was like top 10. But yeah, that seems insane.

711
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:22,080
Yeah. But so, but anyways, the point is that like, it is a big, not only is it a big deal if you

712
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:28,560
are in cycling, you've got to do it, but also to be a World Tour team, which is a relegation system

713
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:33,200
like any league, you have to ride the races in the World Tour, one of them being blah, blah, blah.

714
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:39,200
Anyway, so when somebody turns up and they go, we've got $240 million, we're going to buy this sport,

715
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:44,320
you have to race in my browser. This reminds me of that. We've got $120 million and we're going

716
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:49,360
to rival the New York Stock Exchange. It's like, yeah, you've got $240 million, you want to rival

717
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:54,880
the Tour de France. Good luck with that. We'll see you never. And this is like, yeah, okay,

718
01:02:54,880 --> 01:03:01,520
you want to rival the New York Stock Exchange by listing a Bitcoin ETF with $120 million. That's

719
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:07,840
your war chest? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's the Chicago Stock Exchange, I think. But the whole

720
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:12,800
I think is kind of the point, right? I think longer than the New York Stock Exchange, but

721
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:20,400
nobody uses it. So good luck. You said it was like, hey, we're riders. Right,

722
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:28,560
it's the Chicago Stock Exchange. It's pretty popular. Yeah. This feels like one of those,

723
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:34,240
like if we announce a thing and put an imaginary number on it, we can get a headline and then

724
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,600
we might not even ever actually have to do the thing because people will have forgotten about

725
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:42,240
it pretty quickly. That's why I was watching the Tour de France. All right. I got to

726
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:48,640
retract this. I was decisively wrong. The New York Stock Exchange is 100 years younger, older,

727
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:53,280
than the Chicago Stock Exchange. Okay. So that's actually quite a big gap. It's a big gap.

728
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,160
But the Chicago Stock Exchange has been around since the late 1800s.

729
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,840
Respectable. Respectable.

730
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:10,560
First 100 years is only trading like parochies and fucking hot dogs and shit. So we got those

731
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,520
other stocks in there. Welcome out of these. I was about to say.

732
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,680
Kaluski and yeah.

733
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,920
What do you reckon is the oldest stock exchange in the world? There's probably one in the Netherlands,

734
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,800
right? That's why I was going to go for it. There's some lovely filth over here.

735
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,440
That's a good reference. It's a deep cut. This is a deep cut.

736
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,440
Some water we've been distributing swords. There's no basis for a system of government.

737
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:47,600
Which actually, this is the current state of what is happening in the UK. Election fever.

738
01:04:50,000 --> 01:05:00,000
Yeah. It all fell apart pretty quickly for the... It's just... Yeah. It's been funny.

739
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,120
Women's World Cup is number four. This list doesn't make any sense to me.

740
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:07,120
I think we're looking at the same ones.

741
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:12,480
Football is very popular. Women's World Cup on American Summer Games.

742
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:16,320
Football is very popular. People will watch any football.

743
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:20,720
Well, I think the question is from the women's part of it because in the US,

744
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:29,120
so like the Timbers Army in Portland, their soccer league is really popular. Timbers Army

745
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:33,120
always sells out. The Thorns, which is the women's side, is frequently empty.

746
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,120
Very few viewers.

747
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:40,800
So I think what started to happen, I don't know if this is in every country.

748
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:46,000
I imagine it's very, very different in different places. But I think what's happened is advertisers

749
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:51,680
have worked out that if you can sell women's soccer or football, as we call it in the rest of the

750
01:05:51,680 --> 01:06:02,160
world, football, and then it gets popular, you can then advertising reach half the population.

751
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:08,640
Who knew? And it turns out women weren't watching, not watching football because they don't understand

752
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:14,560
it. It's because they just don't give a shit about their partners complaining about

753
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:19,360
templates running around a pitch and they're just like, I just don't want to get into it.

754
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,960
Whereas if they can just watch something without their partner talking over them all the time,

755
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:28,880
they're kind of into it. So I don't know. It kind of feels like the money is going into

756
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,840
women's soccer and that's why it's growing. It seems women's cycling. That's been

757
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:39,600
exponentially growing in the last few years and it's a pretty similar story where it's

758
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:45,360
professionalizing pretty fast. I guess my surprise comes from there was this big news thing,

759
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:53,280
our event recently, Samar recently, where a woman that was in pro basketball, I want to say,

760
01:06:53,280 --> 01:07:00,080
in the off season, she would go play sports in Russia because Russia paid more than US did.

761
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:07,760
This is significant because she then was imprisoned and was part of an exchange of prisoners.

762
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:13,600
Because she got paid so little, she would then go work in Russia as a professional sports player.

763
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,440
That's pretty wild. In the chat, Rama says,

764
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:25,040
Australian women's team got 80K watching a friendly versus China two nights ago. That's in

765
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:30,880
Australia. So that's how big women's soccer is becoming. I'm guessing that is football.

766
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:31,360
I think it's great.

767
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,920
That must be football, not Aussie rules football, right, Rama? Because I'm guessing they don't

768
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,960
play Aussie rules football in China. Have you ever seen Aussie rules football? It's wild.

769
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,480
Yeah. I've been to a couple of footy games, actually.

770
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,520
Really? Yeah. In Alberta.

771
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:50,480
Oh, yeah, a bit of Melbourne as well. It's fucking fun.

772
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:58,640
I had literally no idea what to expect to the sport. And then I was like, I got to the thing.

773
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,800
Bear in mind, I'd gone in completely caught. I'm not a sports guy, really, other than cycling,

774
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:08,560
a couple of other things. Watching a bit of climbing. Olympic bouldering is the coolest

775
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,440
sport at hands down. It is like watching Spider-Man.

776
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,920
They basically do flips up the wall and you're like, what is happening?

777
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:21,040
Oh my God. Have you ever watched lead climbing, competitive lead climbing?

778
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:26,080
So they're doing it really fast, like boom, boom. Or professional ice climbing. It's

779
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,400
genuinely like watching a scene from an action film.

780
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,480
That I haven't seen, but it sounds awesome.

781
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:36,000
Do you see the one where, yeah, so the one where they do it with lead climbing, but they also do

782
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:42,320
ice. So they have crampons and they sometimes will suspend on chains like a block of ice

783
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:48,080
or a block of simulated ice in between two of the, what do they call them?

784
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,640
They call, what do they call a climbing challenge? They call it, they have a word.

785
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,240
I have no idea. Yeah, I have no idea either.

786
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:02,000
It's not problem, but they have a word for a thing that needs solving.

787
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,240
And they'll have like two walls and then like a chunk just suspended in the air. And then they

788
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:10,720
would be like, well, there's nothing for it. They're just like leaping. It's like, whoa,

789
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:13,840
what the fuck is this? This is insane. It's like an action film.

790
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,760
But yeah, climbing is sick, isn't it? But yeah, and I just walked into the arena and was like,

791
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:26,000
why is the pitch oval shaped? This isn't cricket. And then they get the ball and then they start

792
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:32,880
running with it in their hands and you're like, wait, this isn't rugby. This is all wrong. This

793
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:39,760
is all the sports back to front. I don't understand. I guess you guys know what rugby is, right?

794
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:44,480
It's basically like American football, but not. I played collegiate rugby. Yeah.

795
01:09:44,480 --> 01:09:50,720
Okay. Do you know how it got invented? I don't. It got invented in rugby, obviously.

796
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:56,240
And I think I want to say he was a private schoolboy. Let's say that. Why not? Some guy called

797
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:02,400
Alice. I say Alice Webb might have that a bit wrong. Just picked up the ball in a game

798
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,240
where you weren't allowed to pick up the ball and he ran with it. And they were like,

799
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,720
boys will be boys. And a new sport was born out of male privilege. There you go, rugby.

800
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,280
That's literally. And now you have hookers. Like that's an important distinction to rugby.

801
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:20,640
Yeah, I was the hooker in my team. I didn't have to build for a hooker. I was a winger.

802
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:27,600
You can tell I'm a lank. I was a winger. I have no strength. So a friend of mine was

803
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:38,320
front row like a prop. And he was so good. I once saw him tackle somebody and then just

804
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,360
in midair to tackle somebody else using the body weight of the person he had just knocked

805
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:48,080
to the ground. That person popped past and he just adjusted off of them. Took out the other guy.

806
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:55,040
We had someone that played on our team who like all of us were like 210 pounds or so. So I was

807
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:59,840
like 40 pounds more than I am now. This guy was 300 pounds of muscle. I swear to God. And he was

808
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:05,760
like six, eight. So he would come running past and he would just throw people out of the way

809
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:09,520
because with a hundred pound difference and he was like pure muscle. So like when you went to

810
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:14,400
like went down and guard the ball, when he wanted you to move, he would just pick you up, throw you,

811
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:19,360
and then go running. Like you just there's nothing you could do about it. It was outrageous.

812
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:23,040
And he was like the nicest guy. His name was Brian. Oh man. He's the nicest guy.

813
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,320
I imagine it's kind of like a lot more fun doing rugby when you're sort of

814
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:30,320
voluntarily doing it in that kind of situation. When you have to do it at school,

815
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:36,160
it's literally like the equivalent of that is the fat kid in the year who's also the bully.

816
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:41,920
Or he's like, or he's maybe not even the bully. He's just a piece of shit. And he's just like,

817
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:46,640
ah, this is just a chance to rake everybody and just like run into you, knock you over because

818
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,400
he's so heavy compared to you and then rake you with his boots and you're like,

819
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:56,560
okay, yeah, no, this was a rugby club. And so like we were all volunteering for it. And because he

820
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:01,920
was so nice, like the way he would hit you, you would go down, but you wouldn't go sprawling. I

821
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:07,280
got he had so much skill and he was such a great team captain. I did it at university and I was

822
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:12,000
in the smallest wall of residence at my university. So it's two, we had 200 people, right? So

823
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:18,800
university of I think 40,000 undergraduates, our whole, our whole was 200 people, right? Obviously,

824
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:28,480
mixed gender as well. So in the to field of men's team, we had plausibly, I think probably about

825
01:12:28,480 --> 01:12:37,520
80 blokes to make up 11, 11 every Sunday, plus a couple of injuries, right? So realistically,

826
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:44,320
you need 15 to 20 people to even practice. So it was a case of there were two lads who played

827
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:50,320
under 18s under 21s and were really good. And two people who were moderately good who had done

828
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:55,120
under 18s like for these guys were county level, right? So they were really good.

829
01:12:55,120 --> 01:13:02,960
And then everybody else was just like drafted in all shapes and sizes. And then to cover injuries

830
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:07,440
and people being away and whatnot, there were a couple of people who were just in as the subs.

831
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:13,520
And one of them was he was about five foot two, he played a bit in school, private school in Hong

832
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:19,840
Kong. He was five foot two, probably about 60 kilos. I don't know what that is in pounds, about

833
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:25,600
100 pounds. No, about 130 pounds, something like that. Yeah, something 130. Yeah, I'd go, I'd go,

834
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:31,920
I think 130. Yeah, so yeah, quite, quite small guy, right? And so the biggest hall of residence

835
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:38,000
at the university is over 8000, right? And they just fully fielded a team of people who'd only

836
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:44,000
played at town or county level before they came to university, they were all just tanked,

837
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,920
actual rugby players taking it seriously, they all played for the athletic union,

838
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:54,000
like the varsity team, whatever the university teams. And it's just like us all hung over on

839
01:13:54,000 --> 01:14:02,160
a Sunday morning, like, just like, okay, we are going to get completely wrecked. And like,

840
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:06,640
the other teams were dead sound about it. They were just like, that we'll try, you know, all

841
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:10,240
right, boys, good, good job for turning up. Like, you know, we'll keep it a clean game,

842
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:14,800
we'll keep it a clean game. And then you just get pounded into the ground every like second

843
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:22,720
you got the ball, wow. We scored three points in the entire season. And it was in the first

844
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:27,680
minute of the first game. And it was because one of the two lads who was really good got past it

845
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:34,000
immediately kicked for a kick for the four teams. And they were just like, oh, that was good.

846
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:38,880
And then that didn't sound fun at all. We got so destroyed that first game that after that,

847
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,480
he was like, there's no point kicking. There's no point kicking. We can only score tries. And

848
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:49,040
then we didn't score any entire season. Oh, the shambles. And anyway, the point was that that

849
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:56,480
kid from Hong Kong who was really game, like, absolute lad champ, he got run over by a guy

850
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:06,400
that must have been 120 kilos of muscle. And he had to he finished the match went went back to our

851
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:11,520
hall had a shower came out for the curry afterwards. And then at the curry about halfway

852
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:17,360
through, he was just like, I'm sorry, boys, I'm just in a lot of pain. And there are some medics,

853
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:22,720
there's some his first year. So none of the junior doctors knew new fucking shit. They were just like,

854
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:27,600
what kind of pain? And he was like described and they were like, you need to go to hospital.

855
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:35,280
And so he we're lucky we are all the residents was like 800 meters from the A&E of the of the

856
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:41,280
hospital in the city. So he just like was like, see you boys later, got up from the table, walked

857
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:46,400
to hospital and did not come home that night. Either yeah, I think fractured collarbone.

858
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:53,680
He just he just got to the pub afterwards had some pints with the boys and comfort curry or the

859
01:15:53,680 --> 01:16:04,800
legend. Anyway, game of legends. So yeah, yeah, hey, film recommendation. Have you seen Civil War?

860
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:14,000
Like what Civil War? Like Marvel Civil War? The Alex Garland film? That's new, right?

861
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:17,280
Yeah, I watched it on your Plex server, you surface.

862
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:25,840
Don't get around to that too much. Yeah. It's really good. It's really I did watch

863
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,960
something on the recommendation. What did I watch? It was two weeks ago already. I can't

864
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:35,440
remember what the hell we were watching. I was talking about. Oh, so no, on gaming notes,

865
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:41,840
we were talking about some Sunday, we're just talking about no, no, no, no. No, brick. Oh,

866
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:47,200
yeah, brick. Yeah, brick, we were talking about. Yeah, yeah, brick. Yeah, brick. I did. I did

867
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:50,480
watch brick. I couldn't tell you what it's about because it was two weeks ago. But yeah, I did.

868
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:56,960
JGL is pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Like surprisingly good. Surprisingly good, right?

869
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:01,360
That was a good movie. It was a little bit fucked up. I can see why you like it.

870
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:07,200
It was a little bit fucked up. That film. I'm like, what kind of fucking high school is this?

871
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:13,120
I know, right? There's a lot going on. Yeah, like I got that chick got murdered. Anyway,

872
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:18,480
you want a class? You want a class? Like you got my notes? Yeah, should we just keep on being

873
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:23,600
kind of vaguely depressed and taking drugs? Yeah, why not? Exactly. Exactly. It's totally what it

874
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:29,280
was. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good, I would recommend that to everybody. But yeah, I would

875
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:35,360
recommend that. So Civil War is out on Watch the Next? Yeah, yeah. It's the trailer is like,

876
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:40,720
this is a war film. It's boom, daka, daka, daka, boom, boom, boom. And then the actual film is

877
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:46,080
basically about some journalist in a war zone. Oh, okay. And that's it. It looks pretty good.

878
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:50,880
I'm looking up right now. It's dystopian future America. Yeah, just every film about that right

879
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:56,640
now. Don't look up all of the fucking just just watch the film. There's lots of talk online.

880
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:04,080
I just just watched the film. It's very well-paced, very well put together. It's one of the only films

881
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:09,520
I can think of where I've watched it with my partner and she didn't go that film was half an

882
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:15,360
hour too long. We finished it and it was like June 2. This way. Yeah, she was about the right length.

883
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:26,160
But crucially, there's a scene in it, which I think is maybe the modern equivalent of the

884
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:34,080
saving private Ryan Beach scene maybe. Like is in just like a masterpiece of cinematography

885
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:42,800
in a kind of war film context. It's just very, very cleanly done. Just really gets

886
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:50,640
across the idea and the energy. There's a couple of shots in there, which are just too good.

887
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:56,560
They're almost too good because I noticed them. I was like, that is a great shot. That is the power

888
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:01,840
of cinema right there. And then I was like, ah, damn, if it was just like, is it better if you

889
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:07,360
don't notice it? Or if it's so amazing and eye-craping that you're like, that's a fucking great shot.

890
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:14,240
That is cinema. I don't know. I don't really answer that. I film, so I'm going to tell you.

891
01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:20,320
Yeah. All right. You say so. There's a great sequence anyway.

892
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:24,560
Yeah. Oh, this last piece. You want to talk about this last piece before we get off?

893
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:30,080
The Jacob thing? The news headline or Jacob thing? Take it away.

894
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:36,560
Yeah. So we'll link it in the show notes. But so Jacob Gedakian and pronouncing that based on

895
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:41,840
Schultz's pronunciation, I think that's correct. Hold on. I pronounce his Gedakian. Oh, I was

896
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:47,600
close. I actually thought I was getting it right. I'm sorry. So he released a document, which I

897
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:56,640
guess the fair name for that is an affidavit, which is really just him, which is just a legal way of

898
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:01,760
being able to put something on record. He's not really putting anything. I guess he's trying to

899
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:06,640
have some sort of claim, but he doesn't know who he's claiming against. And in the stock, which

900
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:10,320
we'll link to because he put it out publicly, I wouldn't link to this otherwise. So it was the

901
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:17,600
only reason we're talking about. But I guess it's of notional at some point over the last

902
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:23,520
six months, maybe from October to February or so, around he had diminishing of assets up to the

903
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:30,960
value of $1.513 million USD. And that's he has a list of what those assets were in terms of what

904
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:39,520
was stolen or at least pilfered, I guess through a couple different sexes that he had items hosted

905
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:47,920
at. It looks like Kucoin, Exchange CX. I forget who else it was. And maybe in a couple wallets.

906
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,920
I actually haven't reviewed it too much to see what was going on. But everything from

907
01:20:51,920 --> 01:21:01,680
Celestia to Sey tokens to a bunch of bad kids, like 11 bad kids, bunch of stars, Adam,

908
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,640
Osmosis, I think there was a bunch of stuff in here, Injective, I think.

909
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:11,920
A bunch of things that were kind of pilfered out. So I guess the story here, he doesn't know who

910
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:21,440
stole them. I think that's correct. And I think he tried to, I'm not sure exactly,

911
01:21:21,440 --> 01:21:26,400
but it looks like he tried to be able to do some deposits in some of these types of things and allow

912
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:30,880
an investigation to be able to continue to see where those things were pulled in.

913
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:35,600
But yeah. So anyway, I guess we'll follow this up. I'll put a link into it. Maybe we could talk

914
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,280
about a little bit more next week when we have a little bit more history on it. But this is,

915
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:45,360
I think this was published just recently. This document is dated back in May, the first of May,

916
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:50,640
or 7th of May or something like that. And, you know, I mean, honestly, I know we had some

917
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:56,160
conversation about like team members of Notional Leaving. And I think Robert might have said something

918
01:21:56,160 --> 01:22:05,120
around some wallet mnemonics being in a shared one password account, meaning like a team password

919
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,000
account where you might have multiple team members that might have access to that. I'm not sure if

920
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:14,080
that's exactly correct. But if that was the case, and depending on how those wallets were stolen,

921
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:21,040
or how those some of those assets were pilfered, or even if they were stolen out of sex, out of

922
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:26,640
sexes as well, or if there was just purely hot wallets, I mean, regardless, we don't want to have

923
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:32,320
anything stolen from anybody. And unauthorized transfers regardless of what the history is,

924
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:37,040
is not the right way of, if that was not sure where this history came from. But if that was,

925
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:42,960
obviously, something that was a third actor that kind of worked towards this in some sort of way,

926
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:49,680
that seems unlikely. The one password thing and like things where somebody had access to mnemonics,

927
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:54,880
that would be obviously somebody on his former team. And that's clearly criminal. I mean,

928
01:22:54,880 --> 01:23:00,640
it's all criminal, right? And there's clearly better ways to be able to, if somebody feels

929
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:09,840
jilted, associated to lost revenue, or from a from a backpaid, you know, from maybe salary or

930
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:14,880
other types of things, it's clearly not the way to resolve it. So anything where you have this much

931
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:22,880
exiting an individual is not great. I don't take too much issue with using one password to share

932
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:28,800
hot wallets. Because I mean, to a certain extent, you have to, right? Like, because we run relays

933
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,960
and oracles and stuff, like the team needs access to these wallets. But these are considered like

934
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:38,960
heavy cash, right? Yeah, probably $3 or $4,000 floating on the relay wallet in a given day.

935
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:43,920
Because we burn through that every month, right? Right. Where we there's actual value in the

936
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:51,920
wallets, those are going straight to like, yeah, we, we, like, it's like, if you have a company

937
01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:59,120
bank account, you might issue people who need to make payments like a debit card or something,

938
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:03,760
or a credit card with a low limit, like, but you don't like, you don't like put make them an

939
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:12,160
authorized cosigner of checks to max to unlimited value, do you like, basic financial upset, like

940
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:17,200
in a, you know, a boomer, a trade fire, a boom away, like, you know, literally don't give them

941
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:22,640
a checkbook or whatever. It's mad to give them the total balance of the entire company. I mean,

942
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:28,960
yeah, yeah, I mean, this is, this is, I mean, again, nothing against this situation because theft

943
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:35,280
is theft, but this is not the best key management. No, like, if that's actually what happened, and

944
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:40,800
like we use, we use hardware keys for a bunch of shit, including like, you know, sex removals and

945
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:45,040
things like that, where we have backups at something physical to be able to prevent things

946
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:50,640
like this, like no fun should leave a sex without something physical as well as, as well as a token

947
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:56,640
and all that kind of shit. And like, that's a week, right? We do all that, especially when it

948
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:03,040
gets in that situation. And even, even like on ledgers, you know, like that type of idea of,

949
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:06,000
like to your point, like we also, I do the same thing with like testnet accounts, like,

950
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:10,880
we were, we rotate keys like fucking crazy. So not rotate, but we use different keys for every

951
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,880
single chain and every single wallet. So, so that having testnet like tough in there, I don't

952
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:18,320
really care about that, right? Like, I don't really care because it's just convenient. But

953
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:21,760
you're right. Like we vault all that shit. And like, once that's at a point, those things should

954
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:26,960
not be, there's no reason for teams, team members to be able to share validator keys or be able to

955
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:49,280
share other types of things that that.