00:00:01.351 --> 00:00:02.011
So there is that.

00:00:04.633 --> 00:00:04.793
Wait,

00:00:04.812 --> 00:00:05.974
I do have some topics that I know

00:00:06.014 --> 00:00:10.657
that Senka wants to talk about too,

00:00:10.696 --> 00:00:11.397
but we'll get to those.

00:00:27.676 --> 00:00:29.498
Hello and welcome to Sink Floyd,

00:00:29.577 --> 00:00:31.439
the Pink Floyd,

00:00:31.599 --> 00:00:34.259
Dark Side of the Moon and movie podcast,

00:00:34.801 --> 00:00:36.220
which I only discussed.

00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:36.502
Okay,

00:00:36.561 --> 00:00:38.201
so I'm not going to go on with more

00:00:38.222 --> 00:00:39.162
bullshit about the fake

00:00:39.182 --> 00:00:40.143
podcast being that,

00:00:40.222 --> 00:00:43.945
but what happened last week?

00:00:44.706 --> 00:00:45.786
Okay, there's Cosmos news.

00:00:45.805 --> 00:00:46.667
There's lots of other news.

00:00:47.627 --> 00:00:49.027
Finally, watch Robot Jocks.

00:00:49.048 --> 00:00:50.429
We're going to have to talk about that.

00:00:51.329 --> 00:00:51.649
Nice.

00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:54.210
But my question to all of

00:00:54.231 --> 00:00:56.572
you Robot Jocks enjoyers out there.

00:00:57.697 --> 00:00:58.917
have you watched it with

00:00:58.938 --> 00:00:59.938
dark side of the moon playing?

00:01:00.618 --> 00:01:01.399
Is that really a thing though?

00:01:02.518 --> 00:01:02.698
I mean,

00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:03.780
it's the thing when you make it a thing.

00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:04.400
Oh, okay.

00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:04.640
All right.

00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:05.219
It's not like a,

00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:06.661
it's not like a wizard of Oz thing,

00:01:06.721 --> 00:01:06.861
right?

00:01:06.881 --> 00:01:08.260
It's just a, I mean, it's a,

00:01:08.322 --> 00:01:08.902
it's a fray thing.

00:01:09.522 --> 00:01:09.882
You kind of,

00:01:09.941 --> 00:01:11.623
you kind of play it and then you, you see,

00:01:11.763 --> 00:01:13.463
you see what, you see what's happening,

00:01:13.524 --> 00:01:15.203
but you know, where there's the,

00:01:15.304 --> 00:01:16.165
the bit where the bleacher

00:01:16.185 --> 00:01:17.424
bums get wrecked.

00:01:17.986 --> 00:01:18.846
Yeah.

00:01:18.986 --> 00:01:20.706
It happens perfectly,

00:01:22.808 --> 00:01:23.768
perfectly to the kind of

00:01:23.828 --> 00:01:25.688
drop bit in money.

00:01:25.709 --> 00:01:25.789
Yeah.

00:01:27.546 --> 00:01:29.766
Like you get the dun, dun, dun, dun, dun,

00:01:29.825 --> 00:01:32.346
robot crash, 300 people die,

00:01:32.466 --> 00:01:33.147
something like that.

00:01:33.906 --> 00:01:36.007
There's so many robot

00:01:36.188 --> 00:01:37.128
crashes that eventually

00:01:37.147 --> 00:01:37.867
it's got to line up with

00:01:37.908 --> 00:01:38.947
some sort of symbol crash, right?

00:01:39.668 --> 00:01:40.427
Well, I mean, yeah,

00:01:40.507 --> 00:01:41.748
but it's like specifically

00:01:41.789 --> 00:01:42.789
like the section change

00:01:42.888 --> 00:01:47.489
lines up with 300 people dying.

00:01:47.549 --> 00:01:48.430
Welcome to Game & Nose,

00:01:48.489 --> 00:01:50.010
the validated podcast.

00:01:50.629 --> 00:01:52.171
This is not in fact... So anyway,

00:01:52.290 --> 00:01:53.691
I was like, okay,

00:01:54.855 --> 00:01:57.218
A weekly podcast on validation, whatever,

00:01:57.259 --> 00:01:57.980
whatever, whatever.

00:01:58.941 --> 00:02:01.343
Anyway, so back to Pink Floyd.

00:02:02.644 --> 00:02:03.465
We watched it.

00:02:03.926 --> 00:02:04.305
It was good.

00:02:04.325 --> 00:02:06.367
It was not Paul Blart Mall Cop,

00:02:06.408 --> 00:02:08.189
but it was a good... There

00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:09.551
were moments of sync.

00:02:09.651 --> 00:02:10.573
Where are you going with this?

00:02:11.460 --> 00:02:12.419
well you know how you watch

00:02:12.539 --> 00:02:14.080
pink floyd did you watch

00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:15.001
you watch a film and then

00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:16.542
you play dark side the moon

00:02:17.222 --> 00:02:18.223
right is that the only way

00:02:18.242 --> 00:02:19.223
you watch robot jocks or do

00:02:19.242 --> 00:02:20.323
you actually watch it first

00:02:22.723 --> 00:02:25.384
every movie just has so

00:02:25.425 --> 00:02:26.425
what actually happened

00:02:26.485 --> 00:02:27.825
right was a mate came

00:02:27.846 --> 00:02:29.667
around we started watching

00:02:29.706 --> 00:02:32.508
the film and we got most the way through

00:02:33.503 --> 00:02:35.407
And then we stopped because

00:02:35.448 --> 00:02:37.292
we needed to put the baby

00:02:38.174 --> 00:02:39.858
to the bath and then to bed.

00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:42.643
My other half was away with work.

00:02:43.622 --> 00:02:46.024
And what then happened was

00:02:46.144 --> 00:02:47.264
she walked back through the

00:02:47.305 --> 00:02:48.745
door substantially later

00:02:48.764 --> 00:02:49.906
than the baby's bedtime.

00:02:50.407 --> 00:02:52.788
And we were standing stood

00:02:53.068 --> 00:02:55.409
with a laptop on the side in the hallway,

00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:58.031
bouncing the baby to keep, uh,

00:02:58.070 --> 00:03:00.432
to keep him calm halfway

00:03:00.473 --> 00:03:01.674
through robot jocks with

00:03:01.713 --> 00:03:03.254
dark side of the moon playing on a phone.

00:03:04.622 --> 00:03:05.902
that is actually what

00:03:05.943 --> 00:03:08.344
happened like coming home

00:03:08.384 --> 00:03:09.725
from like being away for

00:03:09.765 --> 00:03:11.167
work and this is like I'm

00:03:11.227 --> 00:03:12.187
sure they'll be fine and

00:03:12.228 --> 00:03:13.549
responsible like worst case

00:03:13.588 --> 00:03:14.490
scenario he'll have a

00:03:14.550 --> 00:03:15.509
couple of friends over and

00:03:16.191 --> 00:03:17.491
yeah that's that was the

00:03:17.532 --> 00:03:19.973
scene it was like what is

00:03:20.033 --> 00:03:21.235
going on here and why is

00:03:21.275 --> 00:03:23.455
the baby not in bed um is

00:03:23.475 --> 00:03:24.657
that the baby is that your

00:03:24.697 --> 00:03:25.717
soothing music like we

00:03:25.758 --> 00:03:26.718
always use like white noise

00:03:26.739 --> 00:03:27.919
but are you using dark side of the moon

00:03:28.849 --> 00:03:29.811
I quite often use Dillinger

00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:34.973
Escape Plan or Russian Circles.

00:03:34.993 --> 00:03:37.055
There is a video of me when

00:03:37.074 --> 00:03:38.175
the Wii One was very, very,

00:03:38.235 --> 00:03:40.396
very small getting into

00:03:40.456 --> 00:03:42.657
sleep using Eat It Up Worms

00:03:42.717 --> 00:03:46.400
Hero by Cardiacs, which also works.

00:03:48.260 --> 00:03:49.961
Oh, and Loveless by MBV.

00:03:50.682 --> 00:03:52.683
He's asleep by halfway

00:03:52.704 --> 00:03:53.604
through the first verse of

00:03:53.623 --> 00:03:57.165
that fucking... of Only Shallow, right?

00:03:57.265 --> 00:03:58.067
Just straight down.

00:03:59.015 --> 00:04:01.076
Anyway, yeah, it's not Paul Blart more cop,

00:04:01.236 --> 00:04:02.917
but there's a bit of sync there.

00:04:03.037 --> 00:04:03.736
There's a bit of play.

00:04:04.777 --> 00:04:05.397
So we were like, okay,

00:04:05.418 --> 00:04:06.937
we're going to start a new podcast,

00:04:07.018 --> 00:04:07.258
right?

00:04:07.519 --> 00:04:09.118
And it's going to be just like watching,

00:04:09.998 --> 00:04:12.219
you know, let's just see every film,

00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:12.680
right?

00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:13.920
Just sync up to Pink Floyd.

00:04:14.461 --> 00:04:15.781
And my friend was pretty keen on this.

00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:17.701
I was like, this has to be a podcast,

00:04:17.762 --> 00:04:17.942
right?

00:04:19.062 --> 00:04:20.403
And of course it is, right?

00:04:20.682 --> 00:04:22.923
I think it's two Aussie guys, actually.

00:04:22.944 --> 00:04:25.464
And it's called fucking Sink Floyd.

00:04:25.485 --> 00:04:27.264
It's a good name.

00:04:27.906 --> 00:04:29.665
It's a good name for a podcast, isn't it?

00:04:30.086 --> 00:04:32.747
I was like, bookmark that one, boys.

00:04:32.788 --> 00:04:33.507
That's going to get me

00:04:33.548 --> 00:04:35.228
through a long winter.

00:04:35.889 --> 00:04:37.290
Whenever I'm feeling low,

00:04:37.350 --> 00:04:38.610
I'm going to check that out.

00:04:38.750 --> 00:04:39.630
They seem like good lads.

00:04:40.790 --> 00:04:41.151
So there you go.

00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:41.610
Big plug.

00:04:41.732 --> 00:04:42.711
If you're into that kind of shit.

00:04:43.788 --> 00:04:44.428
Link in the show notes.

00:04:45.310 --> 00:04:46.490
There will be a link in the show notes.

00:04:46.829 --> 00:04:48.331
So it looks like it ran for

00:04:48.370 --> 00:04:49.812
like over 100 episodes and

00:04:49.831 --> 00:04:50.951
then they ran out of steam.

00:04:51.492 --> 00:04:52.593
And their final episode was

00:04:52.612 --> 00:04:53.593
they actually just did a

00:04:53.632 --> 00:04:56.233
commentary track for Wizard

00:04:56.254 --> 00:04:56.975
of Oz Pink Floyd.

00:04:57.675 --> 00:04:58.495
And then they were like, that's it.

00:04:58.516 --> 00:04:58.896
We're done.

00:04:59.355 --> 00:04:59.696
We're done.

00:04:59.815 --> 00:04:59.915
Yeah.

00:04:59.956 --> 00:05:00.956
I mean, that's how you end, right?

00:05:01.497 --> 00:05:02.557
We're done.

00:05:02.776 --> 00:05:03.737
We can't.

00:05:04.358 --> 00:05:05.017
Moonfall.

00:05:05.077 --> 00:05:05.218
Well,

00:05:05.237 --> 00:05:06.538
they really went deep on some of these.

00:05:06.579 --> 00:05:08.420
The Princess Bride sync with Pink Floyd.

00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:11.500
I think I think I think the

00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:13.161
premise of it is they watch it.

00:05:14.004 --> 00:05:14.846
on the podcast but

00:05:14.886 --> 00:05:16.065
presumably turn down the

00:05:16.086 --> 00:05:17.487
floyd so that you don't

00:05:17.786 --> 00:05:18.468
hear it and they don't get

00:05:18.507 --> 00:05:19.507
demonetized or whatever

00:05:19.528 --> 00:05:21.329
yeah and then they review

00:05:21.389 --> 00:05:22.709
the sync as you go like

00:05:23.571 --> 00:05:25.151
they react to it I think I

00:05:25.172 --> 00:05:27.153
think that's how it works I

00:05:27.173 --> 00:05:28.494
mean eventually I mean okay

00:05:29.134 --> 00:05:29.994
thousand monkeys thousand

00:05:30.014 --> 00:05:30.795
typewriters type of thing

00:05:30.834 --> 00:05:32.076
right like what I've

00:05:32.136 --> 00:05:32.915
noticed about the whole

00:05:32.956 --> 00:05:34.117
pink floyd sinking thing is

00:05:34.177 --> 00:05:35.757
that if you just watch a

00:05:35.778 --> 00:05:37.459
film with with dark side

00:05:37.499 --> 00:05:38.579
playing at some point

00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:39.620
something entertaining will

00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:40.920
happen if you have the patience

00:05:42.982 --> 00:05:45.723
agreed but very few films

00:05:45.783 --> 00:05:47.324
are paul blart more cop so

00:05:48.805 --> 00:05:49.867
that's the one where is

00:05:49.906 --> 00:05:50.607
that the one that you think

00:05:50.627 --> 00:05:51.708
that's the one that sings

00:05:51.728 --> 00:05:54.110
the best it's the best one

00:05:54.129 --> 00:05:54.949
it's one of the best ones

00:05:54.970 --> 00:05:56.170
that I've seen like it

00:05:56.190 --> 00:05:58.312
really like when breathe

00:05:58.372 --> 00:06:00.074
comes in uh somebody gets

00:06:00.113 --> 00:06:01.995
hit by a fucking car where

00:06:02.035 --> 00:06:05.697
the first chord plays in breathe and it's

00:06:07.379 --> 00:06:08.980
kind of pivotal to setting

00:06:09.081 --> 00:06:10.641
up the rest of the film.

00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:11.862
This person just gets

00:06:11.982 --> 00:06:13.862
fucking nailed by a car.

00:06:14.322 --> 00:06:17.423
There's a scene where Paul

00:06:17.483 --> 00:06:18.923
Blart or somebody else in

00:06:18.944 --> 00:06:20.805
the thing is shooting a gun

00:06:21.404 --> 00:06:25.906
and it happens in sync to the guitar.

00:06:27.726 --> 00:06:29.206
There's like a decrescendo in

00:06:32.583 --> 00:06:35.225
money where it goes dun, dun, dun, dun,

00:06:35.245 --> 00:06:38.168
dun, dun, dun, dun, that,

00:06:38.209 --> 00:06:39.670
that descending chromatic

00:06:39.730 --> 00:06:41.072
figure chromatic, isn't it?

00:06:41.091 --> 00:06:42.132
I think it's chromatic.

00:06:42.913 --> 00:06:46.718
Um, somebody shoots a series of targets in,

00:06:46.877 --> 00:06:48.339
in, in time to that.

00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:48.600
I mean,

00:06:52.242 --> 00:06:56.745
okay I think there's like a

00:06:56.785 --> 00:06:57.564
seat I think there's like a

00:06:57.625 --> 00:06:59.545
scene where he's like doing

00:06:59.584 --> 00:07:01.026
a weird dance on a segway

00:07:01.086 --> 00:07:02.586
scooter and it's like it's

00:07:02.625 --> 00:07:03.305
like at the point where

00:07:03.365 --> 00:07:04.326
great gig in the sky is

00:07:04.367 --> 00:07:05.987
playing or maybe it's brain

00:07:06.007 --> 00:07:07.127
damage is playing I can't

00:07:07.146 --> 00:07:09.387
remember but it's one of

00:07:09.427 --> 00:07:10.348
the kind of quite mellow

00:07:10.408 --> 00:07:11.288
tracks and there's just

00:07:11.348 --> 00:07:13.249
like what's his face the

00:07:13.348 --> 00:07:14.629
actor just on a fucking

00:07:14.668 --> 00:07:16.350
segway spinning around there's it's

00:07:18.153 --> 00:07:21.656
It's Paul Blart 2, isn't it?

00:07:21.755 --> 00:07:22.836
It's not even Paul Blart 1,

00:07:22.836 --> 00:07:24.617
it's Paul Blart 2 that syncs up.

00:07:25.699 --> 00:07:25.798
Yeah,

00:07:25.819 --> 00:07:27.661
I think Paul Blart 1 is a non-starter,

00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:29.221
but it's Paul Blart 2.

00:07:29.221 --> 00:07:30.322
They made two of those fucking things?

00:07:30.913 --> 00:07:32.353
apparently so I guess so

00:07:32.673 --> 00:07:33.673
I've never actually seen it

00:07:33.713 --> 00:07:35.134
I've only ever seen it with

00:07:35.173 --> 00:07:36.533
the volume off and no

00:07:36.574 --> 00:07:37.694
subtitles and Pink Floyd

00:07:37.733 --> 00:07:39.675
playing so I actually don't

00:07:39.714 --> 00:07:40.615
know what happens in that

00:07:40.654 --> 00:07:43.035
film just had to kind of

00:07:43.095 --> 00:07:44.875
guess based on context

00:07:45.456 --> 00:07:46.235
something about an arms

00:07:46.295 --> 00:07:48.216
fair I assume it I assume

00:07:48.276 --> 00:07:49.096
it's like a subtle

00:07:49.137 --> 00:07:49.817
commentary on the

00:07:49.857 --> 00:07:51.057
militarization of the

00:07:51.096 --> 00:07:52.656
American police force as

00:07:52.716 --> 00:07:54.017
expressed through more

00:07:54.057 --> 00:07:57.117
police but hey you know

00:07:57.358 --> 00:07:59.119
that's just a guess based on that

00:08:01.038 --> 00:08:02.420
I'm sure that's what that

00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:03.980
fucking film I'm sure

00:08:04.021 --> 00:08:04.860
that's what I'm sure that's

00:08:04.880 --> 00:08:05.641
what they're going for I

00:08:06.362 --> 00:08:06.843
don't even know what the

00:08:06.882 --> 00:08:07.723
actor's name is what's the

00:08:07.742 --> 00:08:09.704
name kevin uh kevin james

00:08:10.305 --> 00:08:12.065
kevin james I was like it's

00:08:12.105 --> 00:08:13.185
not kevin bridges it's not

00:08:13.225 --> 00:08:15.026
kevin spacey I'm all out of

00:08:15.067 --> 00:08:18.428
kevin's so what's up fella

00:08:18.488 --> 00:08:20.430
two weeks a week off I

00:08:20.451 --> 00:08:21.190
don't know I felt naked

00:08:24.963 --> 00:08:25.564
I mean,

00:08:25.584 --> 00:08:26.865
he's just been growing that fucking

00:08:26.886 --> 00:08:27.166
beard.

00:08:27.187 --> 00:08:28.208
Yeah, I know.

00:08:28.228 --> 00:08:29.410
He's just looking more and

00:08:29.430 --> 00:08:31.093
more like Hugh Jackman every day, man.

00:08:31.112 --> 00:08:31.754
You're looking good.

00:08:33.517 --> 00:08:33.756
What?

00:08:33.777 --> 00:08:35.659
Man, I need a haircut.

00:08:35.721 --> 00:08:36.461
Shaggy as fuck.

00:08:38.535 --> 00:08:38.995
Just like,

00:08:39.015 --> 00:08:41.576
did you grow all that in this old thing?

00:08:41.616 --> 00:08:45.057
This old thing?

00:08:45.937 --> 00:08:46.298
No, man.

00:08:46.317 --> 00:08:48.138
Just being like ultra busy.

00:08:48.857 --> 00:08:52.119
Lots of stuff going on in life and work.

00:08:53.739 --> 00:08:55.239
It's hard to get a moment.

00:08:55.359 --> 00:08:59.080
But yeah, here this week,

00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:00.500
I tried to weasel out of it

00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:01.520
to go and build my fence,

00:09:01.841 --> 00:09:03.081
but no one would have a bar of it.

00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.961
Dude, not two weeks in a row.

00:09:05.981 --> 00:09:06.481
Are you kidding me?

00:09:06.581 --> 00:09:08.042
You don't get a fucking pass on that.

00:09:08.777 --> 00:09:10.779
I've totally got like 15

00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:12.942
enormous holes with people

00:09:12.962 --> 00:09:14.485
walking past at my house.

00:09:14.585 --> 00:09:16.187
So, you know,

00:09:16.748 --> 00:09:17.849
they kind of do need to be

00:09:17.889 --> 00:09:19.030
filled in with fence posts,

00:09:19.652 --> 00:09:22.075
but I can spare 90 minutes

00:09:22.134 --> 00:09:24.818
of my day before meeting the guy,

00:09:24.839 --> 00:09:25.759
I suppose.

00:09:25.779 --> 00:09:26.100
Amazing.

00:09:27.148 --> 00:09:27.967
What did everybody else do

00:09:28.008 --> 00:09:30.068
on their week off?

00:09:30.448 --> 00:09:31.729
What's a week off?

00:09:33.690 --> 00:09:33.870
Yeah,

00:09:33.889 --> 00:09:35.610
you're 90 minutes off from last week.

00:09:35.630 --> 00:09:38.711
It was just one evening off, wasn't it?

00:09:38.812 --> 00:09:40.091
None of us could physically

00:09:40.272 --> 00:09:45.354
actually do... Somebody was sick.

00:09:45.514 --> 00:09:46.634
Somebody just didn't want to do it.

00:09:48.053 --> 00:09:52.735
I was dead on the couch last

00:09:52.796 --> 00:09:54.735
week with just a flu.

00:09:55.317 --> 00:09:55.496
Yeah.

00:09:57.546 --> 00:09:58.385
It was not pleasant,

00:09:58.506 --> 00:10:00.086
but it was nice in that it

00:10:00.126 --> 00:10:04.068
just sort of disappeared as well.

00:10:04.750 --> 00:10:07.250
I did this fucking podcast

00:10:07.291 --> 00:10:08.491
all through the winter just

00:10:08.631 --> 00:10:09.711
after the baby had gone to

00:10:09.772 --> 00:10:10.793
nursery for the first time.

00:10:10.832 --> 00:10:12.052
I'm not having that as an excuse.

00:10:13.173 --> 00:10:13.854
What, being sick?

00:10:14.654 --> 00:10:14.875
Yeah.

00:10:15.855 --> 00:10:18.476
Yeah, well, I'm not Superman.

00:10:18.736 --> 00:10:20.317
Have some paracetamol and get on with it.

00:10:20.898 --> 00:10:23.019
I'm not Superman Frey.

00:10:23.836 --> 00:10:25.019
Hager duty waits for nobody.

00:10:25.458 --> 00:10:26.019
I think you just,

00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:27.562
I still respond to PD though.

00:10:28.001 --> 00:10:30.745
You just, you just live in a warm country.

00:10:30.765 --> 00:10:32.508
You're like, Oh, the flu,

00:10:32.567 --> 00:10:35.392
I must faint like a 19th century dandy.

00:10:37.414 --> 00:10:38.375
Bet your ass I was still

00:10:38.414 --> 00:10:39.395
getting up at 2 o'clock in

00:10:39.436 --> 00:10:40.716
the morning to respond to

00:10:40.755 --> 00:10:41.975
PagerDuty alerts, though.

00:10:42.255 --> 00:10:43.556
Why the fuck is PagerDuty

00:10:43.677 --> 00:10:45.096
pinging you at 2 in the morning?

00:10:45.136 --> 00:10:45.256
Like,

00:10:45.277 --> 00:10:46.836
what the fuck was possibly happening

00:10:47.456 --> 00:10:48.717
in Cosmos that needed you

00:10:48.738 --> 00:10:49.798
to get up at 2 in the morning?

00:10:49.817 --> 00:10:50.918
All kinds of shit happen.

00:10:51.437 --> 00:10:52.999
Well, 2 in the morning, his time is, like,

00:10:53.119 --> 00:10:53.458
regular.

00:10:54.479 --> 00:10:55.158
Oh, yeah.

00:10:55.219 --> 00:10:55.359
Like,

00:10:55.418 --> 00:10:56.940
when all the shit is going down in

00:10:56.980 --> 00:10:57.840
the States.

00:10:58.159 --> 00:10:59.259
I mean, shit, to be fair,

00:10:59.299 --> 00:11:01.400
we did nearly lose a validator on Monday.

00:11:01.461 --> 00:11:02.020
That was funny.

00:11:03.522 --> 00:11:03.822
With what?

00:11:04.604 --> 00:11:06.385
The disk issue thing.

00:11:06.426 --> 00:11:07.246
That was crazy.

00:11:08.808 --> 00:11:09.950
The disk issue thing?

00:11:10.110 --> 00:11:11.491
Oh, you're on Aptos, you mean.

00:11:11.552 --> 00:11:13.274
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:13.313 --> 00:11:15.697
The fact that the... I guess

00:11:15.716 --> 00:11:16.437
we can't talk about

00:11:16.477 --> 00:11:17.339
specifics of that yet

00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:19.761
because there's no release or whatever.

00:11:20.043 --> 00:11:20.562
But there...

00:11:21.812 --> 00:11:22.734
It looks like a thing that

00:11:22.774 --> 00:11:24.336
was in test resulted in a

00:11:24.716 --> 00:11:26.597
massive comical log bloat.

00:11:28.941 --> 00:11:29.160
Well,

00:11:29.961 --> 00:11:33.284
that was just the load balancer logging,

00:11:33.345 --> 00:11:33.524
right?

00:11:33.544 --> 00:11:34.186
It has nothing to do with

00:11:34.225 --> 00:11:35.587
what was going on in the actual chain.

00:11:35.707 --> 00:11:36.207
Yeah,

00:11:36.248 --> 00:11:38.610
but it's logging errors on the val node,

00:11:38.671 --> 00:11:38.870
I think.

00:11:40.404 --> 00:11:42.206
Oh, or RPC requests or something.

00:11:42.527 --> 00:11:43.948
Or it's doing some goofy ass thing.

00:11:43.969 --> 00:11:44.750
Something screwy.

00:11:44.830 --> 00:11:45.951
But, like, look,

00:11:46.071 --> 00:11:47.532
any log growing by 50 gig a

00:11:47.552 --> 00:11:49.374
day is doing something screwy, right?

00:11:49.995 --> 00:11:50.355
Yeah.

00:11:50.635 --> 00:11:51.296
Yeah, for sure.

00:11:52.057 --> 00:11:52.437
Fair enough.

00:11:52.538 --> 00:11:53.458
It's one of those, like, you know,

00:11:53.499 --> 00:11:55.120
if you've got your alerting, like,

00:11:55.581 --> 00:11:56.662
pings you, it's been like, hey,

00:11:57.101 --> 00:11:57.562
by the way,

00:11:57.722 --> 00:11:58.744
you should just be aware this

00:11:58.803 --> 00:12:00.285
motherfucker be growing, like,

00:12:00.285 --> 00:12:01.246
50 gig a day.

00:12:01.386 --> 00:12:01.787
And you're like...

00:12:02.827 --> 00:12:04.408
that sounds implausible I'm

00:12:04.428 --> 00:12:05.309
going to go check that out

00:12:05.350 --> 00:12:06.110
and then you go look at it

00:12:06.130 --> 00:12:06.791
the first time and you're

00:12:06.811 --> 00:12:07.871
like the problem is I

00:12:07.892 --> 00:12:08.552
didn't know what it was

00:12:08.591 --> 00:12:10.052
yesterday so now I have

00:12:10.173 --> 00:12:11.254
nothing to go off and I

00:12:11.293 --> 00:12:12.735
just think that my

00:12:12.774 --> 00:12:15.136
monitoring is is right

00:12:15.277 --> 00:12:16.018
tomorrow we're going to

00:12:16.038 --> 00:12:16.817
look into this and you

00:12:16.837 --> 00:12:17.678
write down the number on

00:12:17.698 --> 00:12:19.320
your pad right and the next

00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:20.480
day like something happens

00:12:21.020 --> 00:12:21.841
and then you're like can't

00:12:22.201 --> 00:12:23.102
make it into the office

00:12:23.143 --> 00:12:24.524
today what was the number I wrote down

00:12:25.168 --> 00:12:27.008
This is my system being shown.

00:12:27.568 --> 00:12:27.828
Anyway,

00:12:27.849 --> 00:12:29.328
it was a couple of days before I was like,

00:12:29.389 --> 00:12:29.729
no, no, no,

00:12:29.788 --> 00:12:30.668
this shit is definitely

00:12:30.708 --> 00:12:32.090
growing at 50 gig a day.

00:12:32.309 --> 00:12:32.870
Shit's broken.

00:12:33.429 --> 00:12:33.870
Yeah, yeah.

00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:38.030
And then actually just

00:12:38.071 --> 00:12:39.410
dealing with it was like, hmm,

00:12:41.111 --> 00:12:42.572
it looks like it's this thing,

00:12:42.611 --> 00:12:43.731
but surely it's not.

00:12:45.432 --> 00:12:46.692
That's really fucking naughty.

00:12:47.773 --> 00:12:49.153
And then I realized that the

00:12:49.214 --> 00:12:51.014
numbers were way off in terms of

00:12:52.336 --> 00:12:53.397
what the basically the

00:12:53.437 --> 00:12:54.836
alerting was slightly wrong

00:12:54.856 --> 00:12:56.798
um it was alerting

00:12:56.817 --> 00:12:57.817
correctly about the

00:12:58.118 --> 00:12:59.099
unexpected size of the

00:12:59.158 --> 00:13:00.278
growth but it was not

00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:01.320
alerting correctly about

00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:02.500
how much disk space was

00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.000
left and our the actual

00:13:05.061 --> 00:13:06.542
partition that was being

00:13:06.741 --> 00:13:07.501
used by the docker

00:13:07.542 --> 00:13:09.123
containers in question so

00:13:09.182 --> 00:13:10.123
not the overall disk the

00:13:10.202 --> 00:13:11.004
overall disk was like

00:13:11.912 --> 00:13:13.072
whatever, 50% used,

00:13:13.173 --> 00:13:14.994
but the space available

00:13:15.595 --> 00:13:16.855
before the containers would

00:13:16.875 --> 00:13:19.277
fail was like 94%.

00:13:19.277 --> 00:13:21.599
And it was growing by a

00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.480
percent every 60 minutes by that point.

00:13:24.961 --> 00:13:25.981
And I was like, oh, right.

00:13:26.042 --> 00:13:27.042
This is going to fail in

00:13:27.082 --> 00:13:28.363
like 90 minutes time.

00:13:30.562 --> 00:13:31.962
I mean, you make it sound pretty glamorous,

00:13:32.003 --> 00:13:32.682
but all it was was an

00:13:32.823 --> 00:13:33.964
HAProxy log that was going.

00:13:33.984 --> 00:13:37.325
Yeah, it was just garbage.

00:13:37.365 --> 00:13:38.504
But it just so happened that

00:13:38.924 --> 00:13:41.085
at the point where I was like, hmm,

00:13:41.284 --> 00:13:42.426
I've got a bad feeling about this.

00:13:42.525 --> 00:13:43.625
I think actually that disk

00:13:43.686 --> 00:13:44.785
is way smaller than I think

00:13:44.806 --> 00:13:45.605
it is because of the way

00:13:45.645 --> 00:13:47.886
it's partitioned on that particular node.

00:13:47.907 --> 00:13:48.787
I was like,

00:13:49.506 --> 00:13:50.648
I think that node's actually

00:13:50.687 --> 00:13:51.827
going to fail today.

00:13:52.687 --> 00:13:54.609
and I don't have time to not look at this.

00:13:54.629 --> 00:13:57.010
Because normally, whatever,

00:13:57.091 --> 00:14:00.052
a log is growing on a reverse proxy.

00:14:01.114 --> 00:14:01.695
What's it going to do?

00:14:01.875 --> 00:14:04.716
I can deal with this tomorrow, whatever.

00:14:05.136 --> 00:14:08.038
It's not a no down.

00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:10.640
Until you're like, oh, no, no,

00:14:10.701 --> 00:14:11.822
it's going to take down itself,

00:14:11.961 --> 00:14:13.322
and it's going to take down the validator,

00:14:13.363 --> 00:14:14.024
and it's going to happen

00:14:14.063 --> 00:14:14.644
within 90 minutes.

00:14:14.703 --> 00:14:15.945
And then you look at it,

00:14:15.965 --> 00:14:17.166
it's like 98% full, and you're like...

00:14:19.325 --> 00:14:20.066
Ah, okay.

00:14:20.086 --> 00:14:20.746
Yep.

00:14:21.287 --> 00:14:23.629
And you're like, yeah, just, I mean,

00:14:23.669 --> 00:14:24.610
all of the classic,

00:14:24.630 --> 00:14:26.032
because also like the way

00:14:26.052 --> 00:14:27.113
the file lock works and

00:14:27.134 --> 00:14:28.053
stuff is that the Docker

00:14:28.094 --> 00:14:29.655
daemon is going to have the file lock.

00:14:29.716 --> 00:14:31.077
So you need to remember to,

00:14:32.119 --> 00:14:33.039
to like hold the,

00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:34.961
to do the config change so

00:14:35.001 --> 00:14:36.283
that you can basically

00:14:36.322 --> 00:14:37.703
cycle the daemon while the

00:14:37.744 --> 00:14:39.986
containers stay up and all that.

00:14:40.870 --> 00:14:41.833
Just make sure you don't

00:14:41.933 --> 00:14:43.096
actually nuke it yourself

00:14:43.216 --> 00:14:44.119
or nuke the volumes.

00:14:44.178 --> 00:14:46.225
There's just like... You

00:14:46.264 --> 00:14:47.027
never like to pull the

00:14:47.047 --> 00:14:48.711
switcheroo on a production service,

00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:48.991
do you?

00:14:49.231 --> 00:14:49.413
Right?

00:14:49.432 --> 00:14:49.793
That's just...

00:14:51.106 --> 00:14:52.386
yeah unless that's what I

00:14:52.407 --> 00:14:54.207
want unless if I know it's

00:14:54.227 --> 00:14:55.567
going to be you know two

00:14:55.587 --> 00:14:56.668
percent to full and it's

00:14:56.688 --> 00:14:57.668
heading that way and fuck

00:14:57.708 --> 00:14:58.528
it I don't give a shit like

00:14:58.668 --> 00:15:00.229
we're gonna miss to solve

00:15:00.249 --> 00:15:01.590
this problem right yeah

00:15:01.610 --> 00:15:04.791
yeah yeah so um anyway that

00:15:04.811 --> 00:15:05.850
was that was shenanigans

00:15:06.211 --> 00:15:08.731
that was kind of so moving

00:15:08.792 --> 00:15:09.971
right along before everyone

00:15:10.052 --> 00:15:11.373
fucking falls asleep with

00:15:11.413 --> 00:15:14.673
your huge problem of having

00:15:14.692 --> 00:15:16.734
a full disc uh

00:15:17.826 --> 00:15:19.087
That is the essential

00:15:19.148 --> 00:15:21.208
validator problem though.

00:15:22.168 --> 00:15:23.409
I don't know anyone who

00:15:23.450 --> 00:15:24.370
could go on with so many

00:15:24.409 --> 00:15:25.910
fucking words about having

00:15:25.931 --> 00:15:27.691
a full disc as you just did

00:15:28.772 --> 00:15:29.731
for the last five minutes.

00:15:30.493 --> 00:15:32.933
But, um, we do have a guest this week.

00:15:32.953 --> 00:15:33.933
It was pretty rare.

00:15:33.974 --> 00:15:35.274
We have guests, uh,

00:15:36.839 --> 00:15:39.701
There's few and far between.

00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:40.522
Maybe no one wants to come

00:15:40.581 --> 00:15:41.883
on anymore because you guys

00:15:41.903 --> 00:15:42.943
just sit here and talk shit

00:15:42.964 --> 00:15:43.563
for 90 minutes.

00:15:44.985 --> 00:15:46.046
What's this you guys shit?

00:15:47.106 --> 00:15:48.648
I haven't said anything for

00:15:48.668 --> 00:15:49.969
the last fucking four podcasts.

00:15:50.048 --> 00:15:51.309
I just sat here and did work.

00:15:53.186 --> 00:15:54.606
So anyway,

00:15:55.746 --> 00:15:58.488
Schultz or Serp being the guys

00:15:58.508 --> 00:16:00.629
who are validating on White Whale,

00:16:00.749 --> 00:16:02.710
did either one of you guys

00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:04.270
want to introduce Sancom

00:16:05.051 --> 00:16:08.072
and then Sancom give us a

00:16:08.212 --> 00:16:09.332
bit of information about himself,

00:16:09.352 --> 00:16:10.033
et cetera, et cetera?

00:16:12.375 --> 00:16:12.534
Yeah.

00:16:12.934 --> 00:16:13.075
Sancom,

00:16:13.095 --> 00:16:13.815
why don't you give us a little

00:16:13.835 --> 00:16:14.635
background on yourself and

00:16:14.655 --> 00:16:16.056
talk about White Whale a little bit.

00:16:21.118 --> 00:16:21.437
All right.

00:16:22.198 --> 00:16:23.399
So real quick, I'm Sencom,

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:24.880
CTO of White Whale.

00:16:25.020 --> 00:16:26.302
Now, big name, you know,

00:16:26.721 --> 00:16:27.602
big name in crypto.

00:16:28.504 --> 00:16:29.524
So I'm the lead dev.

00:16:30.404 --> 00:16:37.029
And White Whale is OG Terra, but things,

00:16:37.110 --> 00:16:37.370
you know,

00:16:38.551 --> 00:16:40.572
didn't work out so well on Terra Classic.

00:16:40.613 --> 00:16:43.075
So team continued to build.

00:16:44.316 --> 00:16:46.517
You know, we birthed Megaloo, the chain,

00:16:47.298 --> 00:16:48.639
which is, you know,

00:16:49.403 --> 00:16:50.942
yet another CosmWasm chain.

00:16:50.982 --> 00:16:52.283
It has a couple of, you know,

00:16:52.403 --> 00:16:54.004
interesting tweaks here and there.

00:16:54.423 --> 00:16:57.163
For example, restaking, you know,

00:16:57.203 --> 00:16:57.864
that's one of the most

00:16:57.903 --> 00:16:58.585
interesting things.

00:16:59.085 --> 00:16:59.985
Live in production,

00:17:00.004 --> 00:17:01.345
we can talk about that later.

00:17:01.365 --> 00:17:05.726
We have a cross-chain protocol, DEX,

00:17:06.046 --> 00:17:06.726
Flash Loans,

00:17:07.306 --> 00:17:10.007
live on a couple of cool chains, Osmosis,

00:17:10.047 --> 00:17:10.686
for example.

00:17:11.047 --> 00:17:12.946
You probably saw the Mad Scientist, so,

00:17:12.967 --> 00:17:13.207
you know,

00:17:13.807 --> 00:17:15.767
we had our fingers in that as well.

00:17:16.847 --> 00:17:18.508
And then, you know,

00:17:19.377 --> 00:17:20.679
you probably know you know

00:17:20.919 --> 00:17:23.260
bob blah blah I can never

00:17:23.320 --> 00:17:25.903
pronounce this show yeah I

00:17:25.923 --> 00:17:28.044
don't know never saw it but

00:17:28.984 --> 00:17:30.506
you know he's running our

00:17:30.546 --> 00:17:32.907
validators so we were doing

00:17:32.948 --> 00:17:35.769
that as well and yeah

00:17:35.789 --> 00:17:36.431
that's pretty much what

00:17:36.471 --> 00:17:37.612
we're doing over at

00:17:37.652 --> 00:17:39.553
whiteville and I gotta ask

00:17:39.593 --> 00:17:41.894
you a question guys how can

00:17:41.934 --> 00:17:45.176
you have such you know your

00:17:45.217 --> 00:17:47.358
cameras are so good in your setup

00:17:48.528 --> 00:17:49.307
Do you have some kind of

00:17:49.367 --> 00:17:51.009
side hustle besides validators?

00:17:51.048 --> 00:17:52.308
I know validating in the

00:17:52.328 --> 00:17:53.669
bear market is not profitable.

00:17:53.828 --> 00:17:54.949
It's fucking profitable.

00:17:55.048 --> 00:17:56.589
I mean, this is a professional show.

00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:00.611
I have my iPhone taped to my monitor.

00:18:00.671 --> 00:18:02.070
So do I actually.

00:18:02.090 --> 00:18:06.571
It's the same thing.

00:18:07.372 --> 00:18:08.471
We've tried many different

00:18:08.531 --> 00:18:09.992
things and it turns out

00:18:10.073 --> 00:18:11.992
that the good shit is just

00:18:12.373 --> 00:18:14.574
sticky taping your phone to your monitor.

00:18:16.465 --> 00:18:17.846
You mean something like this?

00:18:18.146 --> 00:18:19.907
Oh, look at that.

00:18:19.928 --> 00:18:22.348
That's far more than we have.

00:18:23.210 --> 00:18:24.190
I notice that's not on too.

00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:25.050
That's good.

00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:26.711
I do have a ring light over here,

00:18:27.751 --> 00:18:29.212
which is why I've got like, you know,

00:18:29.252 --> 00:18:31.134
it's about the two tone face situation,

00:18:31.173 --> 00:18:35.537
but we do have good mics, all of us,

00:18:35.797 --> 00:18:36.396
I'm pretty sure.

00:18:38.977 --> 00:18:40.198
And cameras,

00:18:40.878 --> 00:18:42.259
the Frey has a piece of shit

00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.342
eBay-like camera.

00:18:44.362 --> 00:18:47.284
Schiltzy, I'm not sure.

00:18:47.324 --> 00:18:49.226
His camera's looking all right these days.

00:18:50.086 --> 00:18:52.788
And Serp and me use our iPhones, I believe,

00:18:52.848 --> 00:18:53.549
taped to the monitor.

00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:54.569
Well,

00:18:54.589 --> 00:18:56.731
maybe Serp's got a better situation

00:18:56.771 --> 00:18:58.574
for holding his, but I had...

00:18:59.425 --> 00:19:01.247
a tripod that I would put it on.

00:19:01.267 --> 00:19:01.307
Um,

00:19:02.508 --> 00:19:05.009
except I left it on the plane many

00:19:05.068 --> 00:19:06.109
months ago and haven't

00:19:06.150 --> 00:19:07.290
replaced it yet because I

00:19:07.391 --> 00:19:09.172
don't want to pay $6 for shipping.

00:19:09.991 --> 00:19:13.653
So, you know, a roll of duct tape was $12.

00:19:13.653 --> 00:19:14.193
So I use it.

00:19:15.634 --> 00:19:16.135
Smart.

00:19:18.977 --> 00:19:20.198
But Schultz's microphone

00:19:20.218 --> 00:19:22.078
looks like he's doing this ASMR shit.

00:19:23.217 --> 00:19:26.420
you guys ever saw well you

00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:28.060
saw it well you saw it you

00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:28.882
know these girls were

00:19:28.961 --> 00:19:30.303
eating like carrots you

00:19:30.343 --> 00:19:33.105
know really loud weird

00:19:33.164 --> 00:19:36.488
stuff mercedes really I

00:19:36.508 --> 00:19:37.608
just haven't got a boom and

00:19:37.648 --> 00:19:39.990
so I'm actually my my my

00:19:40.030 --> 00:19:42.853
microphone is on my uh my

00:19:42.932 --> 00:19:44.734
role-playing dice box

00:19:44.875 --> 00:19:48.577
actually to lift it up get

00:19:48.617 --> 00:19:50.098
the right height oh you

00:19:50.138 --> 00:19:52.221
don't have the you don't have the thing

00:19:53.007 --> 00:19:53.787
No, I don't have a boom.

00:19:53.886 --> 00:19:54.106
No.

00:19:55.106 --> 00:19:55.647
Oh shit.

00:19:55.708 --> 00:19:56.208
No boom.

00:19:57.748 --> 00:19:59.828
How long, how long we,

00:19:59.929 --> 00:20:00.769
how I was actually just

00:20:00.909 --> 00:20:02.249
pulling up a Genesis file from,

00:20:03.048 --> 00:20:03.628
from mega Luke.

00:20:03.648 --> 00:20:05.150
Cause it feels like it's been a year,

00:20:05.170 --> 00:20:05.990
a little bit more.

00:20:07.089 --> 00:20:07.690
When did we launch?

00:20:08.529 --> 00:20:12.371
I think it was February something 2023.

00:20:13.090 --> 00:20:17.291
How's the, how's the first year been?

00:20:19.653 --> 00:20:19.752
Um,

00:20:21.121 --> 00:20:23.182
You know, from the chain perspective,

00:20:24.162 --> 00:20:24.422
you know,

00:20:25.402 --> 00:20:27.042
maintaining a chain is a lot of work.

00:20:28.343 --> 00:20:29.722
I can tell you that you probably know,

00:20:30.983 --> 00:20:33.403
and what a lot of people in the, you know,

00:20:33.644 --> 00:20:35.025
users mostly in the Cosmos

00:20:35.065 --> 00:20:38.145
don't see is there's a lot,

00:20:39.246 --> 00:20:40.526
lot going on behind the

00:20:40.625 --> 00:20:42.307
scenes in terms of development,

00:20:42.406 --> 00:20:44.186
but there is, you know,

00:20:44.386 --> 00:20:45.827
more than just one, you know,

00:20:45.847 --> 00:20:49.429
no emergency upgrade.

00:20:49.449 --> 00:20:50.429
You could call it, you know,

00:20:51.075 --> 00:20:52.234
Everybody's just scrambling,

00:20:52.355 --> 00:20:53.576
trying to fix things together.

00:20:54.016 --> 00:20:55.056
These things are usually a

00:20:55.076 --> 00:20:56.836
little bit tense.

00:20:58.258 --> 00:21:00.959
So it's been all right until today.

00:21:01.398 --> 00:21:02.898
But so far, you know,

00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.280
we're quite happy with the

00:21:06.300 --> 00:21:06.980
whole situation.

00:21:11.103 --> 00:21:14.145
I guess that's one of the considerations,

00:21:14.205 --> 00:21:14.445
I guess,

00:21:14.465 --> 00:21:15.666
that every network has to make

00:21:15.707 --> 00:21:16.867
when they start adding shit

00:21:16.907 --> 00:21:17.788
into the stack.

00:21:19.190 --> 00:21:21.131
Like, you know, there's Vanilla Cosmos,

00:21:21.151 --> 00:21:22.873
which is pretty safe for

00:21:22.893 --> 00:21:23.853
who there's not really much

00:21:24.653 --> 00:21:26.335
that can happen but once you

00:21:26.434 --> 00:21:28.395
like start adding in I

00:21:28.415 --> 00:21:29.757
guess the main one is cosm

00:21:29.777 --> 00:21:31.258
wasm once you add it in

00:21:31.877 --> 00:21:32.638
like you know you're just

00:21:32.659 --> 00:21:33.660
going to be doing security

00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.480
patches for the rest of

00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:37.321
your life so and but it

00:21:37.342 --> 00:21:38.221
kind of depends on whether

00:21:38.241 --> 00:21:39.682
you've got a permissioned

00:21:39.742 --> 00:21:41.003
or permissionless cosm wasm

00:21:41.044 --> 00:21:42.805
implementation as well you

00:21:42.825 --> 00:21:45.226
can sort of uh you know gate the

00:21:46.146 --> 00:21:47.948
the problems with permission.

00:21:48.768 --> 00:21:49.769
But when you're permissionless,

00:21:49.868 --> 00:21:50.828
you sort of have to be on

00:21:50.888 --> 00:21:53.931
top of all the patches, yeah?

00:21:54.431 --> 00:21:55.612
Whitewell is, you know,

00:21:55.692 --> 00:21:56.612
on the unique position to

00:21:56.652 --> 00:21:57.772
be on both sides of the

00:21:57.833 --> 00:21:59.153
fence because we have, you know,

00:21:59.192 --> 00:22:01.134
a cross-chain protocol, Cosmosm.

00:22:01.173 --> 00:22:02.994
So we're in a lot of places,

00:22:03.015 --> 00:22:03.715
and at the same time,

00:22:03.756 --> 00:22:05.195
we have our own Cosmosm chain.

00:22:06.317 --> 00:22:07.798
Certainly gives you a very

00:22:07.837 --> 00:22:08.877
interesting perspective on

00:22:08.897 --> 00:22:10.519
the whole process.

00:22:12.579 --> 00:22:14.401
But you're right, Cosmosm is...

00:22:16.442 --> 00:22:19.423
You know, we're lucky nothing broke so far,

00:22:19.483 --> 00:22:19.763
I think.

00:22:19.784 --> 00:22:22.425
Or, you know, there's good devs out there.

00:22:22.727 --> 00:22:24.448
So they're doing a good job.

00:22:25.929 --> 00:22:28.490
I guess from a developer perspective,

00:22:28.510 --> 00:22:31.272
it adds some amount of...

00:22:32.753 --> 00:22:34.253
workload I guess is what I

00:22:34.314 --> 00:22:35.634
was getting to um in

00:22:35.654 --> 00:22:36.994
comparison to a chain that

00:22:37.035 --> 00:22:38.895
wouldn't have cosmism for

00:22:38.935 --> 00:22:40.115
example something that just

00:22:40.135 --> 00:22:41.957
sort of used to you know

00:22:41.997 --> 00:22:43.616
their own custom modules or

00:22:43.636 --> 00:22:45.057
their own modules yeah but

00:22:45.097 --> 00:22:46.057
then again you know when

00:22:46.097 --> 00:22:47.278
you start doing you know

00:22:47.337 --> 00:22:49.719
custom stuff you know

00:22:50.058 --> 00:22:51.398
what's better open source

00:22:51.419 --> 00:22:52.680
with hundreds of eyes on it

00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:53.619
or your custom

00:22:54.286 --> 00:22:55.727
you know, five-team thing.

00:22:56.909 --> 00:22:59.230
Well, you can open source your own thing.

00:22:59.510 --> 00:23:00.672
But, you know,

00:23:01.051 --> 00:23:04.134
I guess what I'm referring to there,

00:23:04.174 --> 00:23:06.978
though, is that your own module is, like,

00:23:07.458 --> 00:23:08.859
it's not susceptible so

00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:11.642
much to outside people, you know,

00:23:11.682 --> 00:23:13.983
trying to exploit holes in it because...

00:23:15.232 --> 00:23:15.472
you know,

00:23:15.893 --> 00:23:18.134
Cosmos is like a whole virtual

00:23:18.174 --> 00:23:18.755
machine thing.

00:23:18.775 --> 00:23:20.316
There's tons and tons of

00:23:20.336 --> 00:23:22.337
stuff that can go wrong with determinism.

00:23:23.719 --> 00:23:24.638
Whereas like, you know,

00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:26.660
your custom module or your

00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:28.461
own module might just do a

00:23:28.481 --> 00:23:30.563
handful of things well and

00:23:30.603 --> 00:23:31.523
not really take too much

00:23:32.324 --> 00:23:35.086
input from outside to be able to balk it.

00:23:35.185 --> 00:23:36.446
So, you know,

00:23:36.467 --> 00:23:38.127
I was just sort of referring

00:23:38.167 --> 00:23:39.628
to the workload and maintenance, I guess.

00:23:40.724 --> 00:23:42.626
that's true well I think you

00:23:42.646 --> 00:23:43.468
guys have I mean you've had

00:23:43.847 --> 00:23:46.029
obviously from ibc go and I

00:23:46.049 --> 00:23:46.971
think a couple other like

00:23:47.671 --> 00:23:48.791
oh shit releases that came

00:23:48.832 --> 00:23:51.075
up through through those

00:23:51.355 --> 00:23:52.035
libraries everything else

00:23:52.055 --> 00:23:53.155
but outside of that it's

00:23:53.277 --> 00:23:54.897
been pretty quiet in terms

00:23:54.958 --> 00:23:55.959
of upgrades right like I

00:23:55.999 --> 00:23:57.079
don't it's only been maybe

00:23:57.380 --> 00:23:58.221
two or three for the year

00:23:58.260 --> 00:23:59.162
or something three or four

00:23:59.782 --> 00:24:00.542
like it's not doesn't seem

00:24:00.563 --> 00:24:02.025
like it's that you know

00:24:02.065 --> 00:24:03.006
there's not that much so

00:24:03.026 --> 00:24:05.548
that which has been really nice too um

00:24:06.885 --> 00:24:09.826
So anyway, like, I don't remember, like,

00:24:09.866 --> 00:24:10.448
Whitewell doesn't come

00:24:10.488 --> 00:24:11.488
across as a chain that we

00:24:11.528 --> 00:24:12.489
run that seems like it

00:24:12.689 --> 00:24:13.628
needs constant maintenance,

00:24:13.929 --> 00:24:14.429
if you know what I mean.

00:24:16.349 --> 00:24:17.671
Yeah, that's obviously true, you know?

00:24:17.691 --> 00:24:17.931
Yeah.

00:24:18.191 --> 00:24:20.112
And, you know, the Megaloo chain, you know,

00:24:20.251 --> 00:24:21.633
we had the exact same, you know,

00:24:21.673 --> 00:24:22.893
thought process as you guys had.

00:24:24.134 --> 00:24:25.914
You know, the tech stack is new.

00:24:26.194 --> 00:24:27.494
So if you try to be smart

00:24:27.555 --> 00:24:29.556
and go cute and fancy, you know,

00:24:29.615 --> 00:24:30.997
you're going to run into issues.

00:24:31.057 --> 00:24:32.718
So, you know,

00:24:33.278 --> 00:24:34.577
sometimes simple is better

00:24:34.818 --> 00:24:35.638
because simple is safe.

00:24:37.522 --> 00:24:37.702
Yeah.

00:24:39.243 --> 00:24:39.984
How's it been like growing

00:24:40.005 --> 00:24:43.166
the user base and trying to, you know,

00:24:43.346 --> 00:24:45.348
acquire users in the Cosmos

00:24:45.608 --> 00:24:47.089
and how much has the Cosmos

00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:48.290
ecosystem helped you in that?

00:24:48.351 --> 00:24:51.574
Or has it been, like,

00:24:51.594 --> 00:24:52.753
how's that been as being

00:24:53.115 --> 00:24:54.375
somebody who is involved in

00:24:54.415 --> 00:24:54.875
running a chain?

00:24:57.057 --> 00:25:00.579
So Whitewell had it or had

00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:02.942
some community already, you know,

00:25:03.082 --> 00:25:05.044
back in the Terra days, you know, they,

00:25:05.144 --> 00:25:05.344
you know,

00:25:06.124 --> 00:25:08.585
They followed us to our new chain.

00:25:08.684 --> 00:25:10.865
So it wasn't a cold start.

00:25:10.925 --> 00:25:12.506
It was a very warm start.

00:25:12.645 --> 00:25:15.686
And we had the fortune of

00:25:15.727 --> 00:25:16.567
building through the bear

00:25:16.606 --> 00:25:18.948
market with a lot of people

00:25:19.107 --> 00:25:21.969
that stayed through during

00:25:21.989 --> 00:25:22.648
the bear market.

00:25:23.469 --> 00:25:25.609
So I'd say we have a quite

00:25:26.109 --> 00:25:29.050
engaged and pretty cool

00:25:29.611 --> 00:25:31.491
core community that's

00:25:31.531 --> 00:25:34.012
really all over what we're doing,

00:25:34.173 --> 00:25:34.512
working.

00:25:35.156 --> 00:25:40.882
with us in DAOs and their

00:25:40.981 --> 00:25:43.304
own little ecosystems of

00:25:43.463 --> 00:25:44.605
whatever they can build.

00:25:44.625 --> 00:25:46.506
So that's pretty cool.

00:25:46.625 --> 00:25:48.008
So we have a really tightly

00:25:48.028 --> 00:25:49.328
knit group of people here,

00:25:49.769 --> 00:25:51.170
tightly knit group of

00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:52.971
protocols that built with us.

00:25:53.771 --> 00:25:57.295
But in general, during the bear,

00:25:57.634 --> 00:25:59.317
it was really silent.

00:26:00.071 --> 00:26:01.373
there wasn't much going on I

00:26:01.593 --> 00:26:02.534
i think you know if the

00:26:02.554 --> 00:26:03.255
bear market would have

00:26:03.275 --> 00:26:05.056
continued for another half

00:26:05.155 --> 00:26:07.077
year you know we'd probably

00:26:07.137 --> 00:26:08.018
see more than just one

00:26:08.057 --> 00:26:10.339
chain shut down um but

00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.442
luckily it didn't so um now

00:26:13.762 --> 00:26:14.603
you know users are coming

00:26:14.663 --> 00:26:16.944
back you can see the kpis

00:26:16.984 --> 00:26:18.226
going up so more daily

00:26:18.286 --> 00:26:19.267
active users more

00:26:19.287 --> 00:26:21.249
transactions and so on so

00:26:21.269 --> 00:26:22.730
that's fantastic but I

00:26:22.750 --> 00:26:23.609
don't know about you guys

00:26:23.810 --> 00:26:25.652
um you know bitcoins at you

00:26:25.672 --> 00:26:27.834
know flirting with all-time high but it

00:26:28.532 --> 00:26:28.972
To me,

00:26:29.012 --> 00:26:31.034
it doesn't feel like full-blown bull

00:26:31.074 --> 00:26:31.775
market yet.

00:26:33.474 --> 00:26:34.796
Is that just me or how do

00:26:34.816 --> 00:26:35.496
you guys feel it?

00:26:37.176 --> 00:26:39.778
Yeah, I'd say there's a... Well,

00:26:39.817 --> 00:26:41.078
historically, the bull market,

00:26:41.898 --> 00:26:44.300
if you believe the Bitcoin cycle,

00:26:44.340 --> 00:26:45.181
like historically,

00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:47.981
we haven't really hit what

00:26:48.041 --> 00:26:49.583
is the bull market territory.

00:26:49.603 --> 00:26:51.844
You know,

00:26:52.223 --> 00:26:54.005
it usually happens a good time

00:26:54.144 --> 00:26:55.286
after the halvening, so...

00:26:57.338 --> 00:26:57.838
But, you know,

00:26:58.219 --> 00:27:01.741
it's just because it's been

00:27:01.781 --> 00:27:02.803
that way in the past, I guess,

00:27:02.843 --> 00:27:03.983
doesn't necessarily mean

00:27:04.003 --> 00:27:05.765
it's going to be this way now.

00:27:06.405 --> 00:27:07.967
And the last time we had a bull market,

00:27:08.007 --> 00:27:08.827
there was a catalyst,

00:27:08.887 --> 00:27:10.348
which was the COVID

00:27:11.088 --> 00:27:12.691
pandemic where everybody was at home.

00:27:13.490 --> 00:27:14.932
So they needed something to do.

00:27:15.452 --> 00:27:17.535
So buy shit coins and be a degen.

00:27:18.255 --> 00:27:19.816
It was like top of everyone's radar.

00:27:19.855 --> 00:27:19.935
Yeah.

00:27:20.977 --> 00:27:22.720
um so you know this this

00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:23.820
part of the cycle is not

00:27:23.861 --> 00:27:25.443
really like a massive

00:27:25.483 --> 00:27:27.226
catalyst at the moment so I

00:27:28.307 --> 00:27:29.869
don't know we might might

00:27:29.930 --> 00:27:31.090
not have hit a bull market

00:27:31.131 --> 00:27:33.575
yet really um I don't think that

00:27:35.454 --> 00:27:36.815
I don't think that the last

00:27:36.855 --> 00:27:37.755
six months has really

00:27:38.655 --> 00:27:40.375
pushed the market up that

00:27:40.415 --> 00:27:43.096
much in comparison to like

00:27:43.156 --> 00:27:44.636
previous bull markets,

00:27:44.696 --> 00:27:47.237
but definitely it is doing better.

00:27:49.397 --> 00:27:51.117
And it is certainly become

00:27:51.337 --> 00:27:52.638
more profitable to be a

00:27:52.699 --> 00:27:54.439
validator or less

00:27:55.179 --> 00:27:56.878
detrimental to your bank account.

00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.619
You know, go back half a year, you know,

00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:02.480
or, you know, November last year,

00:28:02.500 --> 00:28:04.040
you know, peak or, you know,

00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:05.480
bottom bear market,

00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:06.980
how many of your validators

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:08.501
were profitable and how

00:28:08.541 --> 00:28:10.821
many were in the reds?

00:28:12.002 --> 00:28:12.363
Oh, shit.

00:28:12.383 --> 00:28:15.784
We were losing money for a year.

00:28:17.025 --> 00:28:18.384
That's a terrible metric to think about,

00:28:18.404 --> 00:28:18.565
dude.

00:28:19.405 --> 00:28:20.546
Don't bring that shit up.

00:28:21.445 --> 00:28:23.626
Don't bring that shit up.

00:28:23.666 --> 00:28:26.107
We're head in the sand, guys, man.

00:28:27.489 --> 00:28:28.769
We're validators for life

00:28:28.808 --> 00:28:29.709
until we run out of money.

00:28:31.190 --> 00:28:32.830
You've been in the trenches too, I see.

00:28:32.851 --> 00:28:33.570
That's good to see.

00:28:34.073 --> 00:28:34.993
well I mean running a

00:28:35.013 --> 00:28:35.973
validator is like running a

00:28:35.993 --> 00:28:37.875
vc meaning you you invest

00:28:37.914 --> 00:28:38.875
in a shitload of things and

00:28:39.016 --> 00:28:40.217
one or two do really well

00:28:40.916 --> 00:28:43.117
and one or two are pretty

00:28:43.238 --> 00:28:44.739
even and eight of them are

00:28:44.858 --> 00:28:46.119
fucking massively negative

00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:47.480
it's basically what it is

00:28:47.560 --> 00:28:48.881
right your hope like then

00:28:49.741 --> 00:28:51.143
the law of averages you you

00:28:51.163 --> 00:28:52.383
know you can play try to be

00:28:52.423 --> 00:28:54.124
smart in terms of trying to

00:28:54.163 --> 00:28:56.244
reduce uh the number of

00:28:56.465 --> 00:28:57.405
chains that you're running

00:28:57.566 --> 00:29:00.067
to be able to you know try to

00:29:00.967 --> 00:29:01.586
be a little bit smarter

00:29:01.606 --> 00:29:03.188
around picking winners or

00:29:03.307 --> 00:29:04.189
some folks take the,

00:29:04.288 --> 00:29:05.209
I'm just going to validate

00:29:05.249 --> 00:29:06.589
every damn thing and build

00:29:06.630 --> 00:29:07.490
automation around that and

00:29:07.550 --> 00:29:08.691
just play the averages.

00:29:08.810 --> 00:29:08.971
Right.

00:29:09.131 --> 00:29:10.711
Which is also, those are good strategies.

00:29:10.731 --> 00:29:11.272
There's nothing wrong with

00:29:11.292 --> 00:29:11.792
those strategies,

00:29:12.153 --> 00:29:12.813
especially when you drive

00:29:12.853 --> 00:29:13.814
the cost down of actually

00:29:13.834 --> 00:29:14.554
supporting chains that,

00:29:15.035 --> 00:29:15.974
that don't make any money

00:29:16.255 --> 00:29:17.155
or that you just ignore.

00:29:17.776 --> 00:29:19.636
Launch a token for stakers

00:29:19.696 --> 00:29:20.597
on your validator.

00:29:21.657 --> 00:29:22.137
Big money.

00:29:22.878 --> 00:29:24.359
Launch a token for staker.

00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:24.700
Yeah.

00:29:24.740 --> 00:29:25.619
Well, yeah.

00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:26.260
I mean,

00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:27.500
you've been around in the last bear

00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:28.922
market, bull market, I believe.

00:29:31.502 --> 00:29:32.845
That whole logic token thing.

00:29:33.065 --> 00:29:33.306
Yeah.

00:29:34.086 --> 00:29:35.448
Defund was going to try and do that,

00:29:35.508 --> 00:29:35.689
right?

00:29:35.729 --> 00:29:36.430
They're going to create like

00:29:36.470 --> 00:29:37.510
a validator ETF.

00:29:39.413 --> 00:29:40.273
Yeah, I think.

00:29:41.015 --> 00:29:41.476
Well, they.

00:29:42.537 --> 00:29:43.699
Yeah, I don't think that.

00:29:45.432 --> 00:29:47.074
is going ahead is it I saw

00:29:47.094 --> 00:29:48.234
some news from defund

00:29:49.256 --> 00:29:52.678
recently actually no maybe

00:29:55.059 --> 00:29:56.259
well I mean mystic is still

00:29:56.380 --> 00:29:57.000
they're still building a

00:29:57.020 --> 00:29:58.402
ton of stuff so but I'm not

00:29:58.422 --> 00:29:59.201
sure what the what the

00:29:59.221 --> 00:30:00.343
status is a defund but the

00:30:00.383 --> 00:30:02.525
idea but yeah I agreed I

00:30:02.565 --> 00:30:03.345
mean launching a toke I

00:30:03.365 --> 00:30:05.365
mean I don't know I don't

00:30:05.385 --> 00:30:06.007
know if the world needs

00:30:06.047 --> 00:30:06.886
more tokens I don't know if

00:30:06.907 --> 00:30:07.788
the world needs validator

00:30:07.807 --> 00:30:10.549
tokens either but yeah I'm

00:30:10.589 --> 00:30:11.611
not a massive fan of

00:30:11.651 --> 00:30:13.471
validator tokens don't you have one

00:30:14.884 --> 00:30:16.726
I've got a shit coin that I gave out,

00:30:17.067 --> 00:30:20.289
but I wouldn't call it a validated token.

00:30:20.369 --> 00:30:21.352
I was hoping you're going to

00:30:21.372 --> 00:30:22.112
walk into that one.

00:30:22.192 --> 00:30:28.579
I literally said, I'm a King holder.

00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:29.059
What the hell?

00:30:30.461 --> 00:30:30.862
Yeah, man.

00:30:30.882 --> 00:30:32.084
I have a ill-conceived

00:30:32.183 --> 00:30:33.885
marketing gimmick before it was cool.

00:30:33.905 --> 00:30:34.567
And, uh,

00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:39.201
no it is cool I like that

00:30:39.362 --> 00:30:41.624
token in mind yeah now

00:30:41.683 --> 00:30:42.944
people just like to remind

00:30:43.005 --> 00:30:44.566
me of my fucking misgivings

00:30:44.665 --> 00:30:46.548
of yesteryear thank you I

00:30:46.567 --> 00:30:48.048
sell this thing you fucking

00:30:48.068 --> 00:30:51.151
prick hilarious the king

00:30:51.230 --> 00:30:53.153
token yeah every now and

00:30:53.192 --> 00:30:54.133
then people come into my

00:30:54.173 --> 00:30:54.913
discord and they're like

00:30:54.933 --> 00:30:55.614
when are you going to list

00:30:55.673 --> 00:30:56.954
king I'm like fuck man I

00:30:56.994 --> 00:30:59.096
thought we were over this like never

00:31:01.576 --> 00:31:03.397
when king when king when

00:31:03.458 --> 00:31:05.058
king that was what find it

00:31:05.138 --> 00:31:06.180
on dow dow and then I'm

00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.980
gonna post on twitter and

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.382
be like oh right now so um

00:31:12.182 --> 00:31:13.042
yeah I mean there was a lot

00:31:13.063 --> 00:31:14.183
of disappointment around

00:31:14.203 --> 00:31:15.605
the king token because it

00:31:15.644 --> 00:31:16.825
was just meant to be like a

00:31:16.865 --> 00:31:18.125
fun thing and we're gonna

00:31:18.165 --> 00:31:19.406
do some fun shit with the dow

00:31:20.467 --> 00:31:22.768
And then, you know, everyone's like, oh,

00:31:22.788 --> 00:31:23.769
fucking, you know,

00:31:23.868 --> 00:31:24.910
how much is it going to list for?

00:31:24.990 --> 00:31:25.309
I'm like, list?

00:31:25.329 --> 00:31:26.891
What are you talking about?

00:31:28.271 --> 00:31:29.873
And I'm like, this isn't meant to list,

00:31:29.913 --> 00:31:29.992
man.

00:31:30.012 --> 00:31:31.054
This is just fun.

00:31:31.114 --> 00:31:31.874
And people are like, what?

00:31:32.034 --> 00:31:34.015
We fucking delegated you to get this shit.

00:31:34.035 --> 00:31:35.375
And I'm like, oh, fuck.

00:31:35.717 --> 00:31:38.999
Yeah, I was like,

00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:42.661
luckily overshadowed by

00:31:42.721 --> 00:31:44.541
like more drama or elsewhere.

00:31:44.561 --> 00:31:45.682
I mean,

00:31:45.702 --> 00:31:47.104
there's no shortage of drama in the

00:31:47.124 --> 00:31:47.503
cosmos.

00:31:48.894 --> 00:31:50.557
but we don't really intend

00:31:50.576 --> 00:31:51.458
to do anything with that

00:31:51.518 --> 00:31:53.400
token ever unless we I

00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:55.041
don't know maybe in like

00:31:55.362 --> 00:31:57.744
five years time if we still

00:31:57.785 --> 00:31:59.287
have delegators from like

00:31:59.326 --> 00:32:00.448
that airdrop maybe we'll

00:32:00.488 --> 00:32:02.089
like I don't know ship them

00:32:02.109 --> 00:32:02.871
a jumper or something

00:32:06.913 --> 00:32:09.413
Back to the bull conversation from before.

00:32:09.953 --> 00:32:12.795
I think it's weird, actually, excuse me,

00:32:12.815 --> 00:32:14.565
to see Bitcoin still in the $64,000,

00:32:14.565 --> 00:32:15.954
$65,000 range.

00:32:16.055 --> 00:32:18.536
It really hasn't shed the

00:32:18.576 --> 00:32:20.455
way Ethereum or a lot of

00:32:20.476 --> 00:32:21.817
the alts have over the last

00:32:21.856 --> 00:32:22.336
couple months.

00:32:22.656 --> 00:32:23.596
I'm sure that's related to

00:32:23.656 --> 00:32:24.698
maybe just the dollars in

00:32:24.738 --> 00:32:26.837
the ETF and just that

00:32:27.357 --> 00:32:29.858
aspect of financial help coming in.

00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:32.078
But it's done far better

00:32:32.118 --> 00:32:33.220
than the other shit that we track.

00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:33.819
That's for sure.

00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:34.859
Yeah.

00:32:35.717 --> 00:32:36.397
And my impression,

00:32:36.577 --> 00:32:37.939
my impression with that though, which is,

00:32:37.959 --> 00:32:38.219
I mean,

00:32:38.259 --> 00:32:39.579
obviously it must be like the ETF

00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:40.221
pressure, right?

00:32:40.280 --> 00:32:42.501
Because I would think like, just,

00:32:42.903 --> 00:32:44.144
I guess like kind of anecdotally,

00:32:44.183 --> 00:32:45.345
like fucking sample size of

00:32:45.424 --> 00:32:46.265
very fucking tiny,

00:32:46.365 --> 00:32:48.247
but like a lot of the stuff

00:32:48.267 --> 00:32:48.928
that I've seen,

00:32:49.867 --> 00:32:52.250
which is like narrow

00:32:52.390 --> 00:32:54.672
windowed lens on perspective,

00:32:54.751 --> 00:32:56.394
future stuff coming out of

00:32:56.493 --> 00:32:57.513
primarily the city of

00:32:57.595 --> 00:32:58.694
London that I've heard

00:32:58.734 --> 00:33:00.317
about in any respect is like,

00:33:01.181 --> 00:33:05.502
very heavy on random fucking

00:33:05.563 --> 00:33:07.644
shit on ETH and L2s of

00:33:07.703 --> 00:33:10.684
various stripes of one kind or another,

00:33:10.704 --> 00:33:12.445
a lot of asset tokenization type stuff.

00:33:13.086 --> 00:33:13.405
So like,

00:33:15.386 --> 00:33:17.587
like it's interesting because like a lot,

00:33:17.768 --> 00:33:19.347
all of the noise that I see about like,

00:33:19.528 --> 00:33:21.249
Oh, future stuff that's coming.

00:33:21.308 --> 00:33:22.289
That's like kind of

00:33:23.369 --> 00:33:26.191
institutional boomers is like, but,

00:33:26.270 --> 00:33:27.731
but like where the money will be,

00:33:28.729 --> 00:33:29.809
ultimately as much as I'm

00:33:29.869 --> 00:33:30.730
like it's just

00:33:30.770 --> 00:33:32.051
institutional boomerism and

00:33:32.152 --> 00:33:33.333
whatever like I mean that's

00:33:33.432 --> 00:33:34.193
that's where the money will

00:33:34.213 --> 00:33:36.155
come from like no fucking

00:33:36.296 --> 00:33:39.719
use of money I like that

00:33:39.739 --> 00:33:41.520
term you know but this is

00:33:41.540 --> 00:33:42.181
the kind of shit where it's

00:33:42.221 --> 00:33:43.461
like oh right well we have

00:33:43.541 --> 00:33:45.384
assets right and obviously

00:33:45.463 --> 00:33:46.724
assets should be tokenized

00:33:46.884 --> 00:33:50.107
because reasons and then we

00:33:50.147 --> 00:33:51.148
can do that and sell it for

00:33:51.189 --> 00:33:52.170
a markup because that's

00:33:52.230 --> 00:33:55.192
financial services right like you just

00:33:57.042 --> 00:33:59.023
smoke smoke bomb and we're

00:33:59.064 --> 00:34:00.164
in a it's a whole new thing

00:34:00.365 --> 00:34:02.946
you know um and and

00:34:03.007 --> 00:34:03.988
whatever we can just like

00:34:04.807 --> 00:34:05.929
and yeah even better we can

00:34:05.969 --> 00:34:06.950
probably make even riskier

00:34:06.970 --> 00:34:08.391
derivatives like by you

00:34:08.431 --> 00:34:09.570
know doing it in a

00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:10.572
unregulated casino or

00:34:10.612 --> 00:34:12.893
whatever I look I look

00:34:13.313 --> 00:34:14.253
we're validators we're the

00:34:14.273 --> 00:34:16.036
biggest we're the biggest

00:34:16.056 --> 00:34:16.896
scumbags on the fucking

00:34:16.916 --> 00:34:19.018
planet so look I I'm not

00:34:19.077 --> 00:34:20.818
saying I'm just saying this

00:34:20.838 --> 00:34:23.000
from like a jaded point of

00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:24.101
view not from a judgmental

00:34:24.121 --> 00:34:24.800
point of view I'm just

00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:25.561
saying that that is

00:34:26.567 --> 00:34:27.226
Like,

00:34:27.588 --> 00:34:29.568
why are you tokenizing an asset

00:34:29.648 --> 00:34:31.650
unless you plan on exposing it to DeFi?

00:34:31.670 --> 00:34:33.030
Why are you exposing it?

00:34:33.751 --> 00:34:33.992
You know,

00:34:36.452 --> 00:34:40.516
the only thing that the crypto

00:34:40.536 --> 00:34:42.677
assets have over the

00:34:42.777 --> 00:34:44.137
already existing financial

00:34:44.177 --> 00:34:46.539
services casino is further degeneracy.

00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:48.280
So you must conclude, logically,

00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:49.981
that that's the purpose of the endeavor,

00:34:50.041 --> 00:34:50.222
right?

00:34:54.371 --> 00:34:56.873
for the degens yeah more

00:34:56.893 --> 00:35:01.793
degeneracy I mean at this

00:35:01.893 --> 00:35:04.134
point fucking like 80 of

00:35:04.893 --> 00:35:08.235
crypto is degens so you

00:35:08.275 --> 00:35:10.615
think it's that little yeah

00:35:10.635 --> 00:35:11.536
I mean it's way higher than

00:35:11.556 --> 00:35:13.056
that man it's like 99

00:35:13.056 --> 00:35:14.115
actually as I was saying

00:35:14.155 --> 00:35:14.956
that I was just trying to

00:35:15.416 --> 00:35:16.617
in my mind fill the other

00:35:16.617 --> 00:35:18.556
20 I was like and the

00:35:18.597 --> 00:35:19.318
remaining 10 stemmers

00:35:22.264 --> 00:35:23.344
Yeah.

00:35:23.585 --> 00:35:26.246
The only reason it might not

00:35:26.306 --> 00:35:27.588
be 99.9% degens is because

00:35:27.608 --> 00:35:29.789
there's probably a good 10% of scammers.

00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:31.371
Maybe.

00:35:33.132 --> 00:35:34.695
Maybe it's higher than 10% scammers,

00:35:34.775 --> 00:35:35.054
actually.

00:35:35.094 --> 00:35:36.456
There's a lot of scammers in crypto.

00:35:37.476 --> 00:35:39.077
Why do these halvings always drop price?

00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:41.619
Because it goes up.

00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:42.681
At least lose faith.

00:35:43.681 --> 00:35:44.722
Yeah, I guess so.

00:35:49.753 --> 00:35:50.494
I have a theory,

00:35:51.034 --> 00:35:52.114
and that is that the market

00:35:52.235 --> 00:35:54.876
always does what inflicts most pain.

00:35:57.038 --> 00:35:58.938
And when everybody thinks it goes up,

00:35:59.259 --> 00:36:00.659
it crashes into oblivion.

00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:02.641
No,

00:36:02.661 --> 00:36:04.282
that's just when I'm trying to sell my

00:36:04.342 --> 00:36:04.601
shit.

00:36:06.702 --> 00:36:07.543
Afterwards, we pump.

00:36:07.603 --> 00:36:09.184
So please do the needful,

00:36:09.804 --> 00:36:11.186
and then we can go up finally.

00:36:14.447 --> 00:36:15.007
Yeah, you know,

00:36:15.027 --> 00:36:16.568
you got to shake out the paper hands.

00:36:18.065 --> 00:36:20.666
that what it is and then and

00:36:20.867 --> 00:36:22.527
then we can go up then we

00:36:22.568 --> 00:36:26.048
go up yeah unfortunately

00:36:26.088 --> 00:36:27.309
number don't always just go

00:36:27.409 --> 00:36:29.791
up no well but also like

00:36:29.831 --> 00:36:30.831
bitcoin is already at the

00:36:30.871 --> 00:36:33.132
point where surely bitcoin

00:36:33.172 --> 00:36:34.931
is big enough now where any

00:36:34.992 --> 00:36:36.112
movement from the halving

00:36:36.172 --> 00:36:39.634
is priced in oh yeah and

00:36:39.653 --> 00:36:40.994
clearly it doesn't reduce

00:36:41.114 --> 00:36:42.094
that much bitcoin at this

00:36:42.155 --> 00:36:43.356
point it's yeah 30 less than

00:36:45.050 --> 00:36:46.451
30 fewer Bitcoin per block now.

00:36:46.510 --> 00:36:48.711
So what is that six per hour?

00:36:48.851 --> 00:36:48.932
Yeah.

00:36:48.952 --> 00:36:53.155
200 fewer Bitcoin per day being sold.

00:36:53.195 --> 00:36:55.396
Maybe it's really not that much,

00:36:55.836 --> 00:36:57.378
which like you can see how

00:36:57.458 --> 00:36:58.297
like a constriction,

00:36:58.418 --> 00:36:59.239
but this is back to like

00:36:59.259 --> 00:37:00.498
the constriction and supply

00:37:00.940 --> 00:37:01.860
where it's kind of going to

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:05.021
present an actual liquidity

00:37:05.061 --> 00:37:05.862
of Bitcoin problem.

00:37:06.786 --> 00:37:08.327
will work itself out over time,

00:37:08.387 --> 00:37:10.128
which is why you see the price trend up,

00:37:10.208 --> 00:37:11.150
but it's why you're not

00:37:11.170 --> 00:37:12.610
going to see an immediate impact.

00:37:12.670 --> 00:37:14.713
It's just a slow thing.

00:37:14.813 --> 00:37:17.054
And the problem is it's been oversold,

00:37:17.094 --> 00:37:17.293
right?

00:37:17.875 --> 00:37:19.695
So when the thing happens,

00:37:19.755 --> 00:37:20.215
everybody's like,

00:37:20.335 --> 00:37:21.516
and now I'm going to be rich.

00:37:21.677 --> 00:37:22.617
And then that doesn't happen

00:37:22.657 --> 00:37:23.599
because it's already priced in.

00:37:24.766 --> 00:37:25.806
So it's just like,

00:37:26.106 --> 00:37:28.788
I guess we're selling them?

00:37:28.867 --> 00:37:29.909
Is that why burning tokens

00:37:29.929 --> 00:37:31.668
never does anything for price as well?

00:37:33.030 --> 00:37:33.289
I mean,

00:37:33.329 --> 00:37:35.510
burning tokens for price probably

00:37:35.570 --> 00:37:36.471
doesn't do anything because

00:37:36.490 --> 00:37:37.530
the tokens are a shitcoin.

00:37:38.530 --> 00:37:39.931
That's the problem.

00:37:42.552 --> 00:37:43.733
Yeah, I mean, kind of.

00:37:44.568 --> 00:37:45.989
like a long enough time

00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:47.130
scale every token's a shit

00:37:47.170 --> 00:37:48.211
coin except for maybe

00:37:48.251 --> 00:37:49.833
bitcoin but that's only

00:37:49.853 --> 00:37:50.873
because like the boomers

00:37:50.893 --> 00:37:51.873
have got in on it now and

00:37:52.355 --> 00:37:53.775
you can't can't fight city

00:37:53.795 --> 00:37:55.797
hall not everybody who has

00:37:55.836 --> 00:37:59.179
an etf is a boomer I i have

00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:00.701
an etf I'm just saying if

00:38:00.740 --> 00:38:02.041
you still think bitcoin is

00:38:02.262 --> 00:38:03.802
is great you are a fucking

00:38:03.822 --> 00:38:05.344
boomer that is what I that

00:38:05.384 --> 00:38:06.525
is all I mean by the phrase

00:38:06.585 --> 00:38:07.465
or a holder yeah or or

00:38:10.307 --> 00:38:11.788
Or, you know, your diamond hands,

00:38:11.847 --> 00:38:12.188
whatever.

00:38:12.248 --> 00:38:13.469
Like, I spent mine on pizza.

00:38:13.929 --> 00:38:14.489
No regrets.

00:38:14.588 --> 00:38:15.548
No regrets.

00:38:15.969 --> 00:38:16.289
Whatever.

00:38:16.309 --> 00:38:20.550
What do you think about the ETH ETF?

00:38:20.871 --> 00:38:21.811
Coming or not coming?

00:38:22.851 --> 00:38:24.472
I mean, inevitably, yes, right?

00:38:24.532 --> 00:38:25.211
It'll come now.

00:38:25.552 --> 00:38:26.052
Yeah, for sure.

00:38:26.092 --> 00:38:26.512
It'll come now.

00:38:26.532 --> 00:38:27.172
May?

00:38:28.693 --> 00:38:29.112
Or when?

00:38:29.132 --> 00:38:30.132
Oh, I don't know.

00:38:30.152 --> 00:38:30.913
Fucking three years?

00:38:30.932 --> 00:38:31.813
Yeah.

00:38:31.833 --> 00:38:32.673
Three years?

00:38:33.114 --> 00:38:34.014
Depends on different...

00:38:34.134 --> 00:38:34.833
It'll be different territory.

00:38:34.853 --> 00:38:35.855
I would put down within a year.

00:38:35.875 --> 00:38:36.815
Yeah.

00:38:38.222 --> 00:38:40.744
Yeah, I would guess that within this year,

00:38:40.923 --> 00:38:42.085
and again,

00:38:42.105 --> 00:38:44.525
different territories and whatnot,

00:38:45.365 --> 00:38:46.346
it will already exist in

00:38:46.405 --> 00:38:47.306
other places other than the

00:38:47.387 --> 00:38:48.427
US before it exists in the

00:38:48.487 --> 00:38:49.568
US would be my guess.

00:38:49.588 --> 00:38:52.349
I don't know, man.

00:38:52.369 --> 00:38:53.489
I think ETH fundamentally is

00:38:53.509 --> 00:38:54.610
quite a different coin to...

00:39:02.007 --> 00:39:05.170
bitcoin so is that your I

00:39:05.190 --> 00:39:05.929
don't think they're going

00:39:05.949 --> 00:39:07.210
to go with the analog and

00:39:07.231 --> 00:39:09.773
say well oh well bitcoin is

00:39:09.813 --> 00:39:11.233
a is a crypto and this

00:39:11.273 --> 00:39:12.755
other thing is a crypto so

00:39:13.155 --> 00:39:15.096
it let's let's start doing

00:39:15.135 --> 00:39:17.056
it I think they'll go back

00:39:17.097 --> 00:39:18.197
to the drawing board and go

00:39:18.358 --> 00:39:21.000
okay well how does ethereum

00:39:21.099 --> 00:39:23.081
differ to bitcoin and how

00:39:23.101 --> 00:39:26.043
does that propose a risk to consumers

00:39:27.545 --> 00:39:28.326
then there'll be a whole

00:39:28.786 --> 00:39:29.967
thing for like another long

00:39:30.007 --> 00:39:31.246
time I i don't think that

00:39:31.286 --> 00:39:32.007
it's going to be a straight

00:39:32.027 --> 00:39:33.507
away thing I mean that's

00:39:33.527 --> 00:39:34.409
already happened in the

00:39:34.429 --> 00:39:35.289
well that's really happened

00:39:35.309 --> 00:39:36.048
to some extent in the uk

00:39:36.128 --> 00:39:37.349
anyway which is that the

00:39:37.409 --> 00:39:38.590
way the crypto assets are

00:39:38.630 --> 00:39:39.931
regulated is derived

00:39:40.210 --> 00:39:41.670
primarily off of um

00:39:43.012 --> 00:39:44.132
perceived consumer risk so

00:39:44.152 --> 00:39:45.652
that's why I like uh

00:39:45.733 --> 00:39:47.052
creating coin and marketing

00:39:47.112 --> 00:39:48.634
it is like a regulated

00:39:48.713 --> 00:39:50.954
activity activity whereas like

00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.623
You know, running nodes isn't because,

00:39:55.585 --> 00:39:55.786
like,

00:39:56.266 --> 00:39:57.688
you just created some random fucking

00:39:58.168 --> 00:39:59.291
ELC 20.

00:39:59.291 --> 00:40:00.271
Propensity for harm.

00:40:00.913 --> 00:40:00.952
Hi.

00:40:02.755 --> 00:40:04.297
You know, just shuffling around some ETH.

00:40:04.918 --> 00:40:05.139
You know,

00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:05.719
they're going to be worth

00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.320
something tomorrow.

00:40:07.402 --> 00:40:08.103
Boys will be boys.

00:40:08.547 --> 00:40:09.246
Boys be boys.

00:40:12.548 --> 00:40:15.751
I think from an ETF perspective, though,

00:40:16.791 --> 00:40:18.112
those types of decisions

00:40:18.231 --> 00:40:23.715
are made on how is a mass

00:40:23.735 --> 00:40:24.655
adoption of this thing

00:40:24.695 --> 00:40:27.275
going to affect the mums

00:40:27.335 --> 00:40:29.016
and dads of investors.

00:40:29.336 --> 00:40:32.358
And I think that they will

00:40:33.139 --> 00:40:35.219
not be too keen to just say, well,

00:40:35.721 --> 00:40:37.442
it's another crypto, let's go type thing.

00:40:38.588 --> 00:40:38.797
But,

00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:42.400
I mean, on a personal level,

00:40:42.740 --> 00:40:43.601
I would definitely,

00:40:44.661 --> 00:40:46.262
if I was going to be investing in crypto,

00:40:46.322 --> 00:40:49.744
I'd much prefer to do it through an ETF.

00:40:50.324 --> 00:40:52.144
Sorry, in my own name, not in business.

00:40:52.284 --> 00:40:53.826
Like if I was personally

00:40:53.925 --> 00:40:54.987
going to buy crypto,

00:40:55.007 --> 00:40:56.646
I would rather do it

00:40:56.706 --> 00:40:58.148
through an ETF like

00:40:58.188 --> 00:41:00.028
structure simply because it

00:41:00.088 --> 00:41:01.009
reduces admin.

00:41:01.829 --> 00:41:03.510
And it is just,

00:41:03.690 --> 00:41:05.610
there's existing tooling in

00:41:05.650 --> 00:41:07.132
TradFi that makes that type

00:41:07.172 --> 00:41:08.373
of thing and tax easier.

00:41:09.172 --> 00:41:10.614
Whereas when you start

00:41:10.693 --> 00:41:12.416
buying the shit and moving

00:41:12.436 --> 00:41:13.436
it around in accounts,

00:41:14.217 --> 00:41:15.798
it just becomes a nightmare.

00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:21.362
So, I mean, if there was an Ethereum ETF,

00:41:21.724 --> 00:41:22.844
I might be inclined to buy it.

00:41:24.565 --> 00:41:26.688
So you're not a proponent of not your keys,

00:41:26.708 --> 00:41:27.427
not your coin?

00:41:28.929 --> 00:41:31.871
Man, it's fucking... As a validator?

00:41:31.891 --> 00:41:34.273
It depends, like...

00:41:36.217 --> 00:41:36.838
Yes and no,

00:41:36.878 --> 00:41:42.338
but it depends on like... I

00:41:42.398 --> 00:41:45.480
think that there is a space

00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.601
for like custodial crypto

00:41:48.621 --> 00:41:55.081
and it's just from a purely

00:41:55.161 --> 00:41:57.802
like tax perspective and I

00:41:57.822 --> 00:41:59.003
don't have fucking time to

00:41:59.043 --> 00:42:00.143
deal with all the admin of...

00:42:03.626 --> 00:42:04.887
like finding out where all

00:42:04.907 --> 00:42:06.188
the transactions go and the

00:42:06.248 --> 00:42:07.849
buy prices and sell prices

00:42:07.909 --> 00:42:09.108
and tracking capital gains

00:42:09.148 --> 00:42:09.769
and all that type of

00:42:09.789 --> 00:42:12.371
bullshit it is just easier

00:42:12.751 --> 00:42:13.791
and for the type of

00:42:13.871 --> 00:42:14.771
investment and the amount

00:42:14.791 --> 00:42:16.092
of investment I would say

00:42:16.112 --> 00:42:19.454
yeah don't hold the keys

00:42:19.514 --> 00:42:22.295
but you know I think that's

00:42:22.335 --> 00:42:24.456
a whole different um thing

00:42:24.476 --> 00:42:25.576
when you're talking about

00:42:25.657 --> 00:42:28.478
like a regulated body black

00:42:28.557 --> 00:42:30.898
rock type situation with

00:42:32.092 --> 00:42:36.434
presumably a robust security regime.

00:42:37.974 --> 00:42:38.855
I think that's a completely

00:42:38.875 --> 00:42:41.175
different scenario than

00:42:41.315 --> 00:42:44.336
some random ass sex in a

00:42:44.456 --> 00:42:45.496
jurisdiction that's

00:42:45.577 --> 00:42:49.039
skirting the law and a high

00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:50.739
target for hacking.

00:42:51.699 --> 00:42:52.400
I think like...

00:42:53.461 --> 00:42:54.443
you know, not your keys,

00:42:54.503 --> 00:42:55.722
not your crypto applies a

00:42:55.762 --> 00:42:56.704
lot more there and that

00:42:56.764 --> 00:42:58.264
it's at higher risk than if

00:42:58.304 --> 00:43:01.987
you are investing through a

00:43:02.847 --> 00:43:03.688
highly regulated.

00:43:03.867 --> 00:43:05.128
Well, that's not strictly true.

00:43:05.228 --> 00:43:06.688
That's not strictly true, right?

00:43:06.768 --> 00:43:09.951
Because if you, fuck it, name a,

00:43:11.992 --> 00:43:12.652
Kraken, right.

00:43:13.052 --> 00:43:15.193
Uh, for, for, for just sake of argument,

00:43:15.213 --> 00:43:15.393
right.

00:43:15.474 --> 00:43:18.376
If you had some custodial, uh,

00:43:18.836 --> 00:43:21.039
at Kraken run on the hub, right.

00:43:21.139 --> 00:43:22.719
They've got a valve valve there.

00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:23.760
So if you ran, uh,

00:43:24.541 --> 00:43:26.003
if you had some custodial

00:43:26.083 --> 00:43:28.605
atom with Kraken, right, they've got,

00:43:29.686 --> 00:43:30.505
I'm going to guess if

00:43:30.565 --> 00:43:33.849
they've got like 3% or

00:43:33.889 --> 00:43:34.570
something of the hub,

00:43:34.889 --> 00:43:35.851
like they'll have some

00:43:36.010 --> 00:43:38.813
quite large number is publicly visible.

00:43:39.324 --> 00:43:41.364
So somebody knows, right?

00:43:41.425 --> 00:43:45.307
If you can own... If you can

00:43:45.347 --> 00:43:46.929
take down the Kraken validator,

00:43:46.949 --> 00:43:48.329
you're going to stop 3% of

00:43:48.409 --> 00:43:49.831
the hub's voting power

00:43:49.931 --> 00:43:51.351
getting staking rewards.

00:43:51.431 --> 00:43:52.652
If you can take it down, keep it down,

00:43:52.713 --> 00:43:52.932
right?

00:43:53.532 --> 00:43:55.414
So it's a big target.

00:43:55.735 --> 00:43:57.916
And by not... Although I

00:43:57.936 --> 00:43:58.657
suppose that's true of any

00:43:58.697 --> 00:44:01.318
validator you actually pick.

00:44:01.338 --> 00:44:02.318
So validation maybe is the

00:44:02.358 --> 00:44:04.119
bad... Validation is not

00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:05.121
the weak point in that.

00:44:05.201 --> 00:44:06.822
I think the weak point is that

00:44:07.603 --> 00:44:09.204
how a custodial service

00:44:09.284 --> 00:44:10.764
actually does their wallet management,

00:44:10.784 --> 00:44:12.525
I suppose, is the actual weak point.

00:44:13.286 --> 00:44:14.547
If for some reason they were

00:44:14.847 --> 00:44:16.146
running a small number of wallets,

00:44:16.206 --> 00:44:17.168
then you're in a position

00:44:17.248 --> 00:44:19.688
where you're effectively

00:44:19.869 --> 00:44:21.349
just part of a massive pot

00:44:21.389 --> 00:44:23.891
of honey for a potential hacker.

00:44:24.632 --> 00:44:26.452
And the way that hack will

00:44:26.472 --> 00:44:27.373
happen to a big company is

00:44:27.413 --> 00:44:28.193
social engineering.

00:44:28.253 --> 00:44:29.173
It's not going to be like

00:44:30.077 --> 00:44:31.518
elite fucking quantum

00:44:31.538 --> 00:44:32.798
computing it's going to be

00:44:32.838 --> 00:44:33.800
a combination of social

00:44:33.860 --> 00:44:35.802
engineering and like a

00:44:35.842 --> 00:44:36.983
strip club and then a

00:44:37.043 --> 00:44:40.684
blackmail photo right to

00:44:40.885 --> 00:44:42.567
some devops engineer and

00:44:42.606 --> 00:44:44.507
then you just happen to be

00:44:44.668 --> 00:44:45.208
one of a number of

00:44:45.248 --> 00:44:46.090
consumers who lose your

00:44:46.130 --> 00:44:51.193
money that day you know I

00:44:51.213 --> 00:44:54.275
just got distracted yeah I

00:44:54.295 --> 00:44:55.836
could see that in your eyes you just

00:44:57.733 --> 00:44:59.253
It's like, I'm fine, whatever.

00:44:59.454 --> 00:45:02.414
Rhys just sent me some link to my DAO,

00:45:02.894 --> 00:45:03.574
KingDAO,

00:45:03.614 --> 00:45:05.996
to fucking gamble the treasury on

00:45:06.056 --> 00:45:06.436
something.

00:45:08.235 --> 00:45:08.896
Of King tokens?

00:45:10.137 --> 00:45:10.496
No,

00:45:10.617 --> 00:45:12.237
of the Juno tokens that are in the

00:45:12.277 --> 00:45:12.717
KingDAO.

00:45:13.717 --> 00:45:16.018
It's like, just gamble entire treasury.

00:45:16.077 --> 00:45:17.838
I'm not even sure where to.

00:45:17.858 --> 00:45:22.659
Oh, it's a... A coin flip?

00:45:23.347 --> 00:45:24.228
Yeah, it's coin flip.

00:45:25.528 --> 00:45:26.949
It's always a coin flip.

00:45:26.969 --> 00:45:27.768
100-sided dice.

00:45:28.809 --> 00:45:29.849
You put it all on 10.

00:45:30.389 --> 00:45:30.750
Perfect.

00:45:32.409 --> 00:45:33.650
Perfect.

00:45:34.389 --> 00:45:39.592
Yes, Rhys, I will sign the multi-sig.

00:45:45.313 --> 00:45:45.753
So sorry,

00:45:45.793 --> 00:45:46.972
that's why I was distracted and

00:45:46.992 --> 00:45:47.693
I've got no idea what you

00:45:47.713 --> 00:45:48.253
were talking about.

00:45:49.713 --> 00:45:49.994
Lovely.

00:45:56.052 --> 00:45:57.012
How do you feel about that?

00:45:57.652 --> 00:46:00.896
Ah, it's fine.

00:46:01.096 --> 00:46:01.536
It's fine.

00:46:01.996 --> 00:46:05.239
You know, I appreciate this.

00:46:05.318 --> 00:46:06.219
Oh, for fuck's sake.

00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:12.023
Whatever, man.

00:46:12.565 --> 00:46:13.184
Whatever, man.

00:46:15.025 --> 00:46:16.027
The better, right?

00:46:16.086 --> 00:46:17.228
That's how it works.

00:46:17.268 --> 00:46:18.268
Sometimes I make a good point,

00:46:18.289 --> 00:46:20.130
sometimes I make a bad point.

00:46:20.751 --> 00:46:22.092
More importantly, dog with hat.

00:46:23.682 --> 00:46:24.764
Has passed Pepe.

00:46:24.784 --> 00:46:25.425
Yeah.

00:46:25.684 --> 00:46:26.907
It's like the... Now it's

00:46:26.987 --> 00:46:28.528
the... Where are we in

00:46:28.568 --> 00:46:32.452
the... Where are we in

00:46:35.556 --> 00:46:36.637
the... The 30... Number 38

00:46:36.637 --> 00:46:37.978
on the CoinGecko list.

00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:39.320
It has passed Pepe.

00:46:40.262 --> 00:46:41.003
Passed Arbitrum.

00:46:41.182 --> 00:46:41.643
Passed...

00:46:42.385 --> 00:46:44.967
Is that because what was the thing?

00:46:45.128 --> 00:46:46.449
Is that the effect of the halving?

00:46:47.489 --> 00:46:47.829
Do you think?

00:46:48.409 --> 00:46:50.431
I don't think it is.

00:46:50.452 --> 00:46:50.871
I think it is.

00:46:50.972 --> 00:46:52.313
I think that must be directly related.

00:46:52.353 --> 00:46:52.932
Taking profits,

00:46:53.032 --> 00:46:57.155
put it right in the dog whiff hat.

00:46:57.175 --> 00:46:57.155
$3.27.

00:46:57.695 --> 00:46:59.418
It's working on, what's next?

00:46:59.737 --> 00:47:00.538
What's it working on now?

00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:03.740
Heading towards OKB,

00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:05.661
then head towards Filecoin,

00:47:06.101 --> 00:47:06.882
heading towards Adam.

00:47:06.902 --> 00:47:08.304
It's going to pass Adam here soon.

00:47:08.324 --> 00:47:09.885
It'll pass Adam soon.

00:47:10.862 --> 00:47:11.222
I mean,

00:47:11.481 --> 00:47:12.943
Elkwood's hat might have more

00:47:13.023 --> 00:47:13.902
utility than Atom.

00:47:14.603 --> 00:47:14.862
It might.

00:47:15.302 --> 00:47:15.543
It might.

00:47:15.943 --> 00:47:16.382
There's that.

00:47:16.864 --> 00:47:18.083
Because, I mean, it does have a hat.

00:47:18.963 --> 00:47:20.543
And Atom doesn't even have Cosmwasm,

00:47:20.684 --> 00:47:22.304
so... Not yet.

00:47:22.965 --> 00:47:24.025
Wasn't that voted in?

00:47:24.605 --> 00:47:27.465
Fuck this.

00:47:27.485 --> 00:47:28.166
That passed, right?

00:47:28.945 --> 00:47:29.646
Well, yeah,

00:47:29.666 --> 00:47:31.126
but that was just a signaling proposal.

00:47:31.306 --> 00:47:32.306
So, sure, it passed,

00:47:32.327 --> 00:47:33.307
but it doesn't really mean anything.

00:47:33.327 --> 00:47:34.148
No, I know.

00:47:34.168 --> 00:47:34.668
It means, like,

00:47:34.788 --> 00:47:36.168
there's demand that

00:47:36.188 --> 00:47:38.989
somebody... What's your sense on this?

00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:41.440
Is it a good move?

00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:42.201
Is it a bad move?

00:47:44.101 --> 00:47:44.501
What do you think?

00:47:46.563 --> 00:47:47.583
I think it's a bad move

00:47:48.123 --> 00:47:51.146
because to a certain degree,

00:47:51.346 --> 00:47:56.148
Adam is a meme coin for nerds.

00:48:00.791 --> 00:48:02.052
And the thing with meme

00:48:02.112 --> 00:48:05.474
coins is that as soon as

00:48:05.514 --> 00:48:07.536
you give them utility, they die.

00:48:11.144 --> 00:48:13.947
And if you put Cosmo on the hub,

00:48:14.288 --> 00:48:15.688
then it's not a meme coin

00:48:15.869 --> 00:48:16.969
for nerds anymore.

00:48:17.750 --> 00:48:19.851
It is a smart contract platform.

00:48:20.112 --> 00:48:23.114
And then it's in the same, you know,

00:48:24.375 --> 00:48:28.217
mental bucket as Osmosis, as Neutron,

00:48:28.358 --> 00:48:29.259
as Kuji.

00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:32.961
And then you place the two

00:48:33.001 --> 00:48:34.422
next to each other and you see, all right,

00:48:34.443 --> 00:48:35.963
Osmosis is doing that much volume.

00:48:35.983 --> 00:48:36.985
How much is the hub doing?

00:48:37.005 --> 00:48:37.965
And you see, all right,

00:48:38.666 --> 00:48:39.786
there isn't even a DEX on the hub.

00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:41.820
All right, you go to Kuji,

00:48:41.860 --> 00:48:43.021
how much is lending volume?

00:48:43.882 --> 00:48:44.181
Nothing.

00:48:44.902 --> 00:48:47.123
Then you see, man, this chain sucks.

00:48:48.905 --> 00:48:52.226
So the hub's picking a fight.

00:48:52.847 --> 00:48:53.907
It needs to be very careful.

00:48:54.608 --> 00:48:55.829
It should be careful which

00:48:55.889 --> 00:48:57.849
fight it should pick, I believe.

00:48:57.929 --> 00:49:01.512
And this is a fight it could lose,

00:49:02.152 --> 00:49:04.695
unless it's able to attract

00:49:04.735 --> 00:49:07.195
top tier devs and build

00:49:07.235 --> 00:49:10.117
next level shit that shadows everything.

00:49:11.251 --> 00:49:12.873
Isn't it already losing the fight though?

00:49:13.052 --> 00:49:14.514
Like the price has gone down,

00:49:14.594 --> 00:49:16.135
hasn't really recovered and

00:49:16.175 --> 00:49:16.735
people don't really have a

00:49:16.755 --> 00:49:18.516
lot of reason to buy at this point.

00:49:18.637 --> 00:49:18.918
Right.

00:49:19.777 --> 00:49:20.938
So sure.

00:49:20.978 --> 00:49:22.380
That's an argument that it is losing,

00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:26.083
but if they don't do anything,

00:49:26.103 --> 00:49:26.882
then they're just going to

00:49:26.922 --> 00:49:28.945
continue doing nothing.

00:49:29.784 --> 00:49:31.467
But, but to that point, I think,

00:49:31.646 --> 00:49:32.487
I think some comics are good.

00:49:32.646 --> 00:49:33.047
Good point.

00:49:33.947 --> 00:49:35.869
It's easy to invest in the,

00:49:36.630 --> 00:49:37.550
in the potential of,

00:49:39.076 --> 00:49:40.396
And it's easy to hold tokens

00:49:40.456 --> 00:49:42.418
because of potential and,

00:49:42.818 --> 00:49:43.559
and those types of things

00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.061
versus the reality.

00:49:46.081 --> 00:49:46.282
Right.

00:49:46.762 --> 00:49:46.983
And,

00:49:47.543 --> 00:49:49.324
and the reality comes and then that

00:49:49.764 --> 00:49:50.485
doesn't, and like,

00:49:50.525 --> 00:49:51.766
wouldn't this go against like,

00:49:52.487 --> 00:49:53.447
like interchange security

00:49:53.467 --> 00:49:54.148
and those types of things,

00:49:54.208 --> 00:49:55.168
because now you have chains

00:49:55.188 --> 00:49:56.010
that interchange, but they,

00:49:56.269 --> 00:49:57.150
they could be competing

00:49:57.190 --> 00:49:57.992
against the chain that's

00:49:58.032 --> 00:49:59.012
providing that security.

00:49:59.693 --> 00:49:59.853
Right.

00:49:59.873 --> 00:50:00.253
Like why,

00:50:00.293 --> 00:50:01.193
why would I be an intricate

00:50:01.213 --> 00:50:03.356
security piece and like launch, uh,

00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:05.681
like launch a,

00:50:06.081 --> 00:50:07.362
a permissionless Cosmos

00:50:07.402 --> 00:50:08.621
chain or do something that,

00:50:08.942 --> 00:50:10.141
that I think that the chain

00:50:10.181 --> 00:50:13.023
is providing security is going to usurp,

00:50:13.262 --> 00:50:13.443
right.

00:50:13.523 --> 00:50:14.443
Or just take over and just

00:50:14.483 --> 00:50:15.762
do themselves like with somebody else.

00:50:15.822 --> 00:50:16.842
Or they decide that they're

00:50:16.862 --> 00:50:17.503
going to deliver that,

00:50:17.583 --> 00:50:18.583
that same liquidity or that

00:50:18.603 --> 00:50:19.123
same structure.

00:50:19.903 --> 00:50:21.143
Like I, this is a good point.

00:50:21.184 --> 00:50:22.364
Like, I do think that like,

00:50:23.123 --> 00:50:25.364
like if you're going to be a chain,

00:50:25.385 --> 00:50:26.585
like you'd be a security provider,

00:50:26.605 --> 00:50:27.664
then be a security provider.

00:50:27.704 --> 00:50:29.244
But once you provide these

00:50:29.324 --> 00:50:30.786
other like actual utility,

00:50:31.206 --> 00:50:32.246
if those things are garbage,

00:50:32.346 --> 00:50:33.106
people leave the,

00:50:33.882 --> 00:50:36.164
Does that impact interchange security?

00:50:36.384 --> 00:50:37.644
People leave like,

00:50:37.965 --> 00:50:39.226
like it does create the

00:50:39.266 --> 00:50:41.407
opportunity for like a mass exodus to say,

00:50:41.427 --> 00:50:42.489
this isn't going anywhere

00:50:42.528 --> 00:50:43.728
where before it was just like,

00:50:44.190 --> 00:50:45.831
it was always like tomorrow, right?

00:50:45.851 --> 00:50:47.351
Like this will be great in a

00:50:47.391 --> 00:50:47.873
couple of years,

00:50:47.893 --> 00:50:48.472
or we're going to find

00:50:48.492 --> 00:50:49.554
what's going to be next or blah, blah,

00:50:49.574 --> 00:50:49.893
blah.

00:50:50.434 --> 00:50:51.514
And now you're in a position

00:50:51.554 --> 00:50:52.615
where like you're now

00:50:52.635 --> 00:50:53.516
you're battling reality.

00:50:54.329 --> 00:50:55.869
That's I mean,

00:50:55.889 --> 00:50:57.670
I asked him really is like

00:50:57.791 --> 00:50:59.492
the chain that needs to die.

00:50:59.711 --> 00:50:59.992
Really?

00:51:00.632 --> 00:51:00.831
Right.

00:51:00.931 --> 00:51:02.432
Well, because,

00:51:02.452 --> 00:51:03.494
because the whole point is like,

00:51:03.514 --> 00:51:04.373
as some got launched,

00:51:04.393 --> 00:51:05.835
cause you need to launch a

00:51:05.894 --> 00:51:07.996
chain with the SDK to prove

00:51:08.036 --> 00:51:09.077
that the SDK worked.

00:51:09.197 --> 00:51:10.637
That was the purpose of that.

00:51:11.117 --> 00:51:12.978
And having fulfilled that purpose,

00:51:13.378 --> 00:51:14.880
it has no purpose because

00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:16.400
the whole point of the SDK

00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:18.201
is to facilitate an ecosystem of chains.

00:51:18.742 --> 00:51:19.461
Every time the hub.

00:51:20.306 --> 00:51:21.409
tries to go like, oh,

00:51:21.429 --> 00:51:22.309
we can do this other thing.

00:51:22.409 --> 00:51:23.652
Well, there's already a chain doing that,

00:51:23.711 --> 00:51:23.913
right?

00:51:25.635 --> 00:51:27.478
And all the hub has is like

00:51:27.818 --> 00:51:30.742
liquidity and often a higher token price,

00:51:30.802 --> 00:51:31.003
right?

00:51:31.563 --> 00:51:31.764
So

00:51:34.036 --> 00:51:34.836
Yeah, I mean,

00:51:34.876 --> 00:51:35.817
all that's going to happen is

00:51:35.896 --> 00:51:38.418
Atom halts more than it used to,

00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:40.581
and it probably won't do a

00:51:40.601 --> 00:51:41.362
whole lot more.

00:51:42.202 --> 00:51:43.103
I think they'll copy and

00:51:43.163 --> 00:51:44.923
paste every bit of smart

00:51:44.983 --> 00:51:46.405
contract code that exists

00:51:46.746 --> 00:51:49.226
publicly out there from all

00:51:49.246 --> 00:51:50.909
the other Cosmos and chains,

00:51:50.929 --> 00:51:51.628
because that's not an

00:51:51.648 --> 00:51:52.710
advantage in any way,

00:51:52.750 --> 00:51:55.032
as long as your code is open source.

00:51:55.592 --> 00:51:57.233
And they'll copy and paste it onto the hub,

00:51:57.793 --> 00:51:59.534
and that will happen.

00:52:00.014 --> 00:52:01.757
And very little of it will

00:52:01.817 --> 00:52:03.117
get much TVL attraction.

00:52:04.018 --> 00:52:05.458
um because unless you have

00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:08.539
unless you have a very well

00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:10.181
thought out product um

00:52:10.340 --> 00:52:12.481
roadmap for how you're

00:52:12.501 --> 00:52:13.563
going to put stuff together

00:52:13.663 --> 00:52:16.503
in a in an order that

00:52:16.603 --> 00:52:18.025
results in a compelling

00:52:18.844 --> 00:52:20.726
narrative then you just end

00:52:20.786 --> 00:52:23.007
up with juno right in the

00:52:23.047 --> 00:52:24.668
end I mean it's an

00:52:24.708 --> 00:52:26.528
interesting thing right because

00:52:28.543 --> 00:52:30.023
There's so much dependent on

00:52:30.083 --> 00:52:31.324
a changed life as to what

00:52:31.364 --> 00:52:32.744
happens in the first, like six months,

00:52:33.224 --> 00:52:33.985
Adam, at this point,

00:52:34.146 --> 00:52:35.365
it still has a pretty big treasury,

00:52:35.806 --> 00:52:37.567
but it gets reduced more

00:52:37.606 --> 00:52:38.327
and more every year.

00:52:38.907 --> 00:52:40.427
And they don't have like a

00:52:40.447 --> 00:52:42.608
strategic fund for paying

00:52:42.648 --> 00:52:43.887
for devs to come in at this point.

00:52:43.907 --> 00:52:45.849
I mean, they do, but not,

00:52:46.048 --> 00:52:46.949
not a meaningful one.

00:52:47.128 --> 00:52:47.590
Like,

00:52:48.269 --> 00:52:49.429
like I mentioned has like half a

00:52:49.469 --> 00:52:50.269
billion dollars in

00:52:50.369 --> 00:52:51.490
strategic fund because they

00:52:51.510 --> 00:52:52.070
just launched.

00:52:52.090 --> 00:52:52.490
Right.

00:52:53.282 --> 00:52:55.144
So dimension in theory would

00:52:55.164 --> 00:52:57.827
be able to outpace Cosmos

00:52:57.847 --> 00:52:59.887
Hub and finding devs and finding products,

00:53:00.509 --> 00:53:03.150
even though their value add

00:53:03.170 --> 00:53:07.114
is still in question, I think.

00:53:09.396 --> 00:53:12.137
And so even if Cosmos Hub does add Cosmos,

00:53:12.157 --> 00:53:13.338
then they're still going to

00:53:13.358 --> 00:53:14.300
have the issue of, well,

00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:15.061
do we have enough money to

00:53:15.121 --> 00:53:15.960
actually fund teams to

00:53:16.001 --> 00:53:16.762
start building here?

00:53:16.782 --> 00:53:17.342
Because people aren't going

00:53:17.362 --> 00:53:17.782
to want to just start

00:53:17.802 --> 00:53:19.003
building there for no reason, right?

00:53:19.063 --> 00:53:20.164
We need some reason.

00:53:20.525 --> 00:53:22.646
Well, also, I mean, like,

00:53:26.454 --> 00:53:28.054
Like Stargaze and Judo and

00:53:28.094 --> 00:53:28.755
all those other chains,

00:53:28.775 --> 00:53:30.916
they launched in 2021, right?

00:53:31.635 --> 00:53:32.615
That was a long time ago.

00:53:32.637 --> 00:53:34.197
That was nearly three years ago now,

00:53:34.336 --> 00:53:34.536
right?

00:53:36.398 --> 00:53:38.599
That was when Colton Wasm was hot.

00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:41.039
Three years ago.

00:53:42.740 --> 00:53:45.922
And the technology has moved

00:53:46.001 --> 00:53:47.161
on a long way.

00:53:47.322 --> 00:53:48.302
Like Tendermint was already

00:53:48.422 --> 00:53:51.063
not hot in 2021.

00:53:51.063 --> 00:53:52.523
Like the SDK was already

00:53:52.625 --> 00:53:53.704
showing the cracks, right?

00:53:56.144 --> 00:53:57.746
the whole of the stack now

00:53:58.567 --> 00:54:02.829
in crypto terms is prehistoric.

00:54:04.331 --> 00:54:05.632
And even the Cosmos and bit,

00:54:05.652 --> 00:54:06.833
it's not quite prehistoric,

00:54:06.893 --> 00:54:13.277
but it's like turning up in

00:54:13.336 --> 00:54:14.717
the Korean War with a jet

00:54:14.757 --> 00:54:15.739
fighter that was built at

00:54:15.778 --> 00:54:17.239
the tail end of the Second World War.

00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:19.440
It's only four years difference,

00:54:19.561 --> 00:54:20.121
but you're going to get

00:54:20.141 --> 00:54:21.382
shot down in a one-to-one

00:54:21.422 --> 00:54:22.242
dogfight every time.

00:54:25.454 --> 00:54:27.195
That was quite the reference.

00:54:27.496 --> 00:54:29.556
You need somebody to develop

00:54:29.577 --> 00:54:30.697
the Super Saber, right?

00:54:30.717 --> 00:54:31.398
You need somebody to develop

00:54:31.418 --> 00:54:32.677
the Super Saber, otherwise you're fucked,

00:54:32.737 --> 00:54:32.898
right?

00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:37.561
Yeah, I don't know.

00:54:37.740 --> 00:54:38.380
I think it's going to be

00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:39.561
interesting to see.

00:54:39.681 --> 00:54:40.942
Is that permissionless?

00:54:41.001 --> 00:54:41.583
It's permissionless.

00:54:41.643 --> 00:54:42.003
Is that right?

00:54:42.862 --> 00:54:43.603
I think it's permissioned.

00:54:44.224 --> 00:54:44.543
Oh, is it?

00:54:44.603 --> 00:54:44.864
Okay.

00:54:44.983 --> 00:54:45.224
All right.

00:54:45.625 --> 00:54:46.184
That's better.

00:54:46.704 --> 00:54:47.666
Calling on Reese.

00:54:47.905 --> 00:54:48.445
Is it permissioned?

00:54:49.184 --> 00:54:50.643
I would assume it would be permission,

00:54:50.664 --> 00:54:51.585
because then you would have

00:54:51.625 --> 00:54:54.184
the ability to... I'm sure

00:54:54.204 --> 00:54:55.585
the DAO still... AADAO

00:54:55.605 --> 00:54:56.405
wants to be involved and

00:54:56.425 --> 00:54:57.826
build that strategically

00:54:57.846 --> 00:54:58.445
and all that kind of stuff.

00:54:59.286 --> 00:55:00.465
I feel suspicious about

00:55:00.766 --> 00:55:01.927
permissioned versus permissionless,

00:55:01.967 --> 00:55:02.887
though.

00:55:04.047 --> 00:55:05.527
Injective's permissionless, right?

00:55:05.827 --> 00:55:10.168
And we'll get a wave of five to ten props,

00:55:10.329 --> 00:55:11.028
and then what?

00:55:11.048 --> 00:55:11.688
Are we supposed to just

00:55:11.728 --> 00:55:12.568
review all the code?

00:55:14.108 --> 00:55:15.150
Injective's permissioned.

00:55:15.909 --> 00:55:16.750
You said permissioned, right?

00:55:17.762 --> 00:55:19.141
Oh, well, that was, that was an accident.

00:55:19.161 --> 00:55:20.483
We get, we have a bunch of props saying,

00:55:20.523 --> 00:55:22.023
Hey, we want to deploy these contracts.

00:55:23.063 --> 00:55:24.103
I've looked at a couple of them,

00:55:24.503 --> 00:55:27.284
but most of them provide no information.

00:55:27.583 --> 00:55:28.085
And so whether it's

00:55:28.125 --> 00:55:29.005
permission to permission list,

00:55:29.224 --> 00:55:31.085
we still just mostly their vote.

00:55:31.105 --> 00:55:31.284
Yes.

00:55:31.324 --> 00:55:33.146
Or abstain, which is in effect a yes.

00:55:34.085 --> 00:55:34.686
And it goes in.

00:55:34.945 --> 00:55:36.547
So the people that are

00:55:36.567 --> 00:55:38.007
voting are validators who

00:55:38.047 --> 00:55:40.186
may not be Russ devs and roster,

00:55:40.266 --> 00:55:41.288
even if they were Russ devs,

00:55:41.307 --> 00:55:42.507
they might've because Muslim devs.

00:55:44.349 --> 00:55:46.268
Yeah, I think as a permission to chain,

00:55:46.349 --> 00:55:46.570
like,

00:55:46.690 --> 00:55:48.309
Injective really should be having

00:55:48.690 --> 00:55:50.210
some dedicated people going

00:55:50.309 --> 00:55:52.291
over these proposed

00:55:52.371 --> 00:55:54.090
contracts and providing advice.

00:55:54.851 --> 00:55:58.172
But, you know, on that,

00:55:59.052 --> 00:56:01.032
the voting period is just

00:56:01.092 --> 00:56:03.673
not long enough on Injective for...

00:56:04.947 --> 00:56:06.047
items like that it needs to

00:56:06.088 --> 00:56:07.989
be like you know to give

00:56:08.050 --> 00:56:09.552
people time to a get to it

00:56:09.891 --> 00:56:11.753
and b do some kind of due

00:56:11.773 --> 00:56:13.775
diligence on the code or or

00:56:13.835 --> 00:56:14.677
anything like that that's

00:56:14.717 --> 00:56:16.057
coming through or organize

00:56:16.097 --> 00:56:17.239
some due diligence with the

00:56:17.300 --> 00:56:18.400
injective team or something

00:56:19.141 --> 00:56:20.922
then you know those voting

00:56:20.943 --> 00:56:21.844
periods need to be more

00:56:21.903 --> 00:56:25.387
like a week not fucking two days

00:56:26.485 --> 00:56:27.885
which was the same issue with Kujira.

00:56:27.905 --> 00:56:29.405
Kujira has permissioned as well.

00:56:29.887 --> 00:56:31.766
And so because they come through so often,

00:56:31.927 --> 00:56:32.788
everyone just votes yes.

00:56:33.668 --> 00:56:34.128
Well, yeah,

00:56:34.208 --> 00:56:36.389
like there's voting fatigue in Kujira.

00:56:36.769 --> 00:56:36.949
I mean,

00:56:37.750 --> 00:56:40.630
I just don't think the permission

00:56:40.652 --> 00:56:41.532
model works at all.

00:56:44.338 --> 00:56:47.360
It's just fucking bullshit.

00:56:47.521 --> 00:56:48.661
It's complete shit.

00:56:49.242 --> 00:56:50.083
Either you're running a

00:56:50.123 --> 00:56:51.063
world computer or you're

00:56:51.103 --> 00:56:52.646
running a permission chain.

00:56:52.846 --> 00:56:54.047
No, I don't agree with that.

00:56:55.268 --> 00:56:57.969
You are to some extent

00:56:58.010 --> 00:57:00.391
saying we have strong

00:57:00.431 --> 00:57:02.132
opinions or we have some

00:57:02.193 --> 00:57:03.393
kind of opinion about what

00:57:03.414 --> 00:57:05.054
should be run here.

00:57:05.335 --> 00:57:06.476
The question is who?

00:57:06.496 --> 00:57:08.177
Initially, that's the core dev team.

00:57:08.557 --> 00:57:09.057
Great.

00:57:09.097 --> 00:57:11.079
That is a bunch of nerds in a room.

00:57:12.661 --> 00:57:13.342
Okay, great.

00:57:13.422 --> 00:57:14.804
I don't think it's like

00:57:14.824 --> 00:57:17.246
gatekeeping on what kind of

00:57:17.326 --> 00:57:19.648
stuff they want run there.

00:57:19.708 --> 00:57:24.032
I think it's more protection of the chain.

00:57:24.052 --> 00:57:25.253
I'm not making a moral judgment.

00:57:25.273 --> 00:57:26.974
I don't give a fuck about gatekeeping.

00:57:27.074 --> 00:57:28.576
It's really smart in a bunch of cases,

00:57:28.615 --> 00:57:28.836
right?

00:57:28.876 --> 00:57:29.516
If you want to have a really

00:57:29.556 --> 00:57:30.617
coherent product roadmap,

00:57:30.657 --> 00:57:33.039
gatekeeping is smart, smart, smart.

00:57:33.521 --> 00:57:36.402
But if you're like the core

00:57:36.422 --> 00:57:38.025
dev team has this view, right?

00:57:38.974 --> 00:57:39.835
The only thing you need to

00:57:39.896 --> 00:57:41.476
do with that then team is

00:57:41.516 --> 00:57:43.358
give them a multi-sig and then say,

00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:44.659
validators don't need to

00:57:44.699 --> 00:57:45.639
fucking vote on this.

00:57:46.240 --> 00:57:47.461
We will audit the code

00:57:47.481 --> 00:57:48.682
because we are the core dev

00:57:48.702 --> 00:57:49.643
team running this chain,

00:57:49.663 --> 00:57:51.224
which only has 100 validators.

00:57:51.344 --> 00:57:53.445
It's all decentralization theater anyway.

00:57:53.746 --> 00:57:55.268
This is not fucking decentralized.

00:57:55.748 --> 00:57:57.108
So we're running a

00:57:57.188 --> 00:57:59.811
non-decentralized permissioned chain.

00:58:00.170 --> 00:58:01.552
So we are running enterprise

00:58:01.572 --> 00:58:02.253
grade software.

00:58:02.612 --> 00:58:03.454
So let's just have a

00:58:03.474 --> 00:58:04.554
cryptographic structure

00:58:04.635 --> 00:58:06.036
that vets the fucking code

00:58:06.255 --> 00:58:07.396
rather than pretending that

00:58:08.007 --> 00:58:09.186
pretending that somebody

00:58:09.246 --> 00:58:10.188
else is going to fucking do

00:58:10.228 --> 00:58:11.128
this because they're not

00:58:12.528 --> 00:58:13.668
and it's our responsibility

00:58:13.708 --> 00:58:15.289
as the core dev team to do

00:58:15.329 --> 00:58:18.471
that because what are we

00:58:18.490 --> 00:58:19.731
doing here right is this

00:58:19.811 --> 00:58:20.831
our software or is this

00:58:20.871 --> 00:58:22.152
like mickey mouse land and

00:58:22.172 --> 00:58:22.992
the answer is like it's

00:58:23.012 --> 00:58:24.112
their software so it's

00:58:24.132 --> 00:58:25.152
their responsibility to vet

00:58:25.172 --> 00:58:27.152
the fucking code there you

00:58:27.173 --> 00:58:29.213
go I think that's also the

00:58:29.574 --> 00:58:30.514
like that's kind of tying

00:58:30.574 --> 00:58:31.715
in the shitty cosmos

00:58:32.034 --> 00:58:33.335
governance structure into

00:58:33.436 --> 00:58:34.135
the idea of permission

00:58:34.175 --> 00:58:35.115
versus permissionless like

00:58:35.596 --> 00:58:36.956
I think it does work on stargaze

00:58:38.036 --> 00:58:38.818
It works there because

00:58:38.858 --> 00:58:40.099
there's a very strong team

00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:41.159
that defines what

00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:42.161
functionality that they

00:58:42.181 --> 00:58:43.422
want to be able to provide on chain.

00:58:43.782 --> 00:58:44.503
And that's really,

00:58:44.764 --> 00:58:45.384
if anybody else puts

00:58:45.445 --> 00:58:46.425
anything else forward to that,

00:58:46.445 --> 00:58:47.606
it usually gets shot down, right?

00:58:47.626 --> 00:58:48.146
Because there's a lot of

00:58:48.166 --> 00:58:48.967
communication around that.

00:58:49.068 --> 00:58:49.347
Exactly,

00:58:49.367 --> 00:58:51.329
but they functionally pre-vet what

00:58:51.389 --> 00:58:53.311
they think should even be put forward.

00:58:53.672 --> 00:58:53.311
100%.

00:58:53.811 --> 00:58:55.594
And so they're doing exactly

00:58:55.614 --> 00:58:57.335
what I described as totally fine.

00:58:57.376 --> 00:58:58.677
Like that stargaze, you're right,

00:58:58.856 --> 00:59:00.458
is a good example of how to do this.

00:59:00.878 --> 00:59:02.139
But they get around the fact

00:59:02.179 --> 00:59:03.139
that the validators are

00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:04.239
voting on something that, frankly,

00:59:04.260 --> 00:59:05.360
that generally validates to

00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:07.362
not qualify for or do not have the time,

00:59:07.402 --> 00:59:08.222
which is why that should be,

00:59:08.262 --> 00:59:09.362
which is why what's going

00:59:09.382 --> 00:59:12.043
back to the SDK piece should 100% go away,

00:59:12.103 --> 00:59:12.284
right?

00:59:12.324 --> 00:59:13.583
Like if that was Dow focused

00:59:13.623 --> 00:59:15.025
and you had a you had small

00:59:15.065 --> 00:59:15.565
groups that were

00:59:15.585 --> 00:59:16.885
responsible for defining what

00:59:17.485 --> 00:59:19.206
Cosmos and structures were

00:59:19.286 --> 00:59:19.887
on chain and you had

00:59:19.907 --> 00:59:20.827
another DAO that's a

00:59:20.887 --> 00:59:21.708
business group in another

00:59:21.748 --> 00:59:23.108
bow that's responsible for

00:59:23.188 --> 00:59:24.748
technical validation and they approve it.

00:59:25.048 --> 00:59:25.528
And you have another one

00:59:25.548 --> 00:59:26.449
that's responsible for

00:59:26.489 --> 00:59:27.570
tokenomics and they approve it.

00:59:27.869 --> 00:59:29.309
And you actually build from you.

00:59:29.550 --> 00:59:32.030
That is right.

00:59:32.130 --> 00:59:33.572
The problem you see there is

00:59:33.612 --> 00:59:35.193
that you're now talking

00:59:35.253 --> 00:59:37.934
about sort of minimum

00:59:37.934 --> 00:59:40.065
10 employees or something to

00:59:40.125 --> 00:59:43.786
run a cosmos yeah yeah you

00:59:43.806 --> 00:59:44.686
can afford to have 10

00:59:44.686 --> 00:59:46.186
employees it doesn't have

00:59:46.206 --> 00:59:47.286
to be employees I mean

00:59:47.306 --> 00:59:49.586
honestly you could you know

00:59:49.606 --> 00:59:50.367
what I mean like doubt

00:59:51.108 --> 00:59:52.608
people on down memberships

00:59:52.648 --> 00:59:53.628
that will even actually

00:59:53.668 --> 00:59:54.849
pick up their ledger like

00:59:54.909 --> 00:59:56.329
need to be paid ultimately

00:59:56.369 --> 00:59:57.188
there's a period of time

00:59:57.228 --> 00:59:58.068
where you get grace and

00:59:58.108 --> 00:59:59.929
then after like a year or

00:59:59.969 --> 01:00:00.730
whatever people stop

01:00:00.750 --> 01:00:02.510
responding yeah it doesn't

01:00:02.550 --> 01:00:03.471
need to be it doesn't mean

01:00:03.510 --> 01:00:04.590
insane though like I don't

01:00:05.405 --> 01:00:06.545
there's also this paid like

01:00:06.605 --> 01:00:07.726
paid means they're like

01:00:07.746 --> 01:00:08.505
somebody's making a million

01:00:08.525 --> 01:00:09.706
dollars off of off a

01:00:09.746 --> 01:00:10.726
fucking multi-sig which is

01:00:10.786 --> 01:00:12.327
ridiculous to me but like

01:00:12.527 --> 01:00:13.447
but if you want if they

01:00:13.487 --> 01:00:14.086
wanted to be able to do

01:00:14.106 --> 01:00:14.666
that and they want to be

01:00:14.686 --> 01:00:15.688
able to build a structure

01:00:15.728 --> 01:00:16.648
do that I i agree that

01:00:16.688 --> 01:00:17.568
permissionless or

01:00:17.588 --> 01:00:18.788
permission is when you have

01:00:18.807 --> 01:00:20.028
validators to to null's

01:00:20.088 --> 01:00:21.668
point that are inundated

01:00:21.728 --> 01:00:22.969
with proposals and they're

01:00:23.028 --> 01:00:24.269
just seeing shit fly by and

01:00:24.289 --> 01:00:25.190
they're hitting yes because

01:00:25.570 --> 01:00:26.809
if they hit abstain

01:00:26.869 --> 01:00:27.610
everybody fucking comes

01:00:27.650 --> 01:00:28.351
down their throat or if

01:00:28.411 --> 01:00:29.791
they don't vote it turns into like

01:00:31.090 --> 01:00:32.251
a dashboard item because

01:00:32.271 --> 01:00:33.231
validators invoke but they

01:00:33.251 --> 01:00:33.972
don't have time to look at

01:00:34.012 --> 01:00:34.532
it or they don't have the

01:00:34.572 --> 01:00:35.373
skills to look at it they

01:00:35.393 --> 01:00:35.952
shouldn't be looking in the

01:00:35.972 --> 01:00:37.492
first place like that that

01:00:37.532 --> 01:00:39.034
is a that is a governance

01:00:39.074 --> 01:00:40.153
issue that should be solved

01:00:40.594 --> 01:00:41.534
and I think that that's

01:00:41.574 --> 01:00:42.574
probably the biggest issue

01:00:42.594 --> 01:00:44.335
I mean it's kind of I think

01:00:44.355 --> 01:00:45.295
it's back to the thing I

01:00:45.315 --> 01:00:46.275
think about a lot right is

01:00:46.536 --> 01:00:47.576
it's fucking telling in

01:00:47.615 --> 01:00:52.777
cosmos that a lot depends

01:00:52.838 --> 01:00:55.458
on validators voting

01:00:55.798 --> 01:00:56.619
because people won't vote

01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:58.500
their own shares at which point you go

01:00:59.992 --> 01:01:02.432
If people are not going to vote,

01:01:02.472 --> 01:01:03.773
if it's not in their interest,

01:01:03.813 --> 01:01:06.313
like what are all these systems, right?

01:01:06.353 --> 01:01:07.673
These systems are supposedly

01:01:07.733 --> 01:01:08.873
systems to build economic

01:01:08.914 --> 01:01:11.034
incentives in a decentralized way, right?

01:01:11.735 --> 01:01:12.414
Don't really buy the

01:01:12.434 --> 01:01:13.494
decentralization thing,

01:01:13.514 --> 01:01:15.916
but let's say that let's take on board,

01:01:15.936 --> 01:01:17.416
we're building economic

01:01:17.436 --> 01:01:19.137
incentive systems on the

01:01:19.177 --> 01:01:20.956
internet in a secure way, right?

01:01:21.356 --> 01:01:22.077
Fold tolerant way.

01:01:22.398 --> 01:01:22.818
Cool.

01:01:23.237 --> 01:01:23.518
Okay.

01:01:24.338 --> 01:01:25.278
one of those incentives

01:01:25.338 --> 01:01:26.778
apparently involves voting

01:01:27.219 --> 01:01:28.840
people don't do it well our

01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:30.260
incentive system is broken

01:01:30.860 --> 01:01:31.842
yeah like it's just it's

01:01:31.922 --> 01:01:33.081
yeah it's just and it's the

01:01:33.101 --> 01:01:34.623
same and we go on about

01:01:34.643 --> 01:01:35.762
this as validators you know

01:01:35.842 --> 01:01:37.463
that well let's add one

01:01:37.483 --> 01:01:38.804
more step to that cosmos

01:01:38.824 --> 01:01:40.364
hubs voting period is 14

01:01:40.364 --> 01:01:42.146
days let's say you you

01:01:42.166 --> 01:01:42.927
figure out your product and

01:01:42.947 --> 01:01:43.766
then you have to wait 14

01:01:43.766 --> 01:01:45.588
days for to actually deploy it that's

01:01:46.414 --> 01:01:47.333
kind of an eternity.

01:01:47.353 --> 01:01:48.554
That's a long time.

01:01:48.894 --> 01:01:49.054
Now,

01:01:49.074 --> 01:01:50.454
I actually like that Cosmos Hub's

01:01:50.574 --> 01:01:51.496
voting period is 14 days,

01:01:51.896 --> 01:01:53.396
but for permission Cosmos wasn't,

01:01:53.456 --> 01:01:56.277
that just seems really bad.

01:01:56.317 --> 01:01:57.317
Yeah, every push, right?

01:01:57.637 --> 01:01:58.657
It's going to take a long

01:01:58.737 --> 01:02:00.057
time to get through

01:02:01.059 --> 01:02:01.898
convincing the community

01:02:01.918 --> 01:02:02.599
and all that kind of stuff

01:02:02.619 --> 01:02:04.380
and convincing the validator set, I think,

01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:06.199
on top of that 14 days as well, though.

01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:07.440
So, in the end,

01:02:07.601 --> 01:02:08.840
the 14 days might not matter so much.

01:02:09.081 --> 01:02:09.201
Yeah,

01:02:09.240 --> 01:02:10.621
it took them three years to approve

01:02:11.061 --> 01:02:11.641
Cosmos.

01:02:11.661 --> 01:02:13.663
14 days sounds like a fucking...

01:02:15.259 --> 01:02:17.340
We've been in the unique

01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:19.039
position to experience this

01:02:19.059 --> 01:02:20.800
from both sides because we

01:02:21.021 --> 01:02:22.501
are a cross-chain protocol.

01:02:23.702 --> 01:02:31.045
And back in 2020, two years ago,

01:02:32.445 --> 01:02:35.306
we deployed our first set

01:02:35.347 --> 01:02:36.746
of smart contracts or DEX

01:02:36.806 --> 01:02:38.507
on multiple permission chains.

01:02:39.778 --> 01:02:43.661
and it's not usable it's

01:02:43.702 --> 01:02:46.344
completely broken so you

01:02:46.463 --> 01:02:48.126
can use it permission

01:02:48.166 --> 01:02:50.246
causing wasn't if you have

01:02:50.286 --> 01:02:51.708
a single smart contract

01:02:51.748 --> 01:02:53.190
that you want to upload but

01:02:53.750 --> 01:02:55.331
if you you have a product

01:02:55.610 --> 01:02:56.351
you know that that's

01:02:56.891 --> 01:02:58.494
developed that's maintained

01:02:58.934 --> 01:03:01.195
that's more than just a single contract

01:03:02.934 --> 01:03:03.835
It's not usable.

01:03:06.697 --> 01:03:08.219
Adam would be a platform,

01:03:08.659 --> 01:03:10.822
and so permission becomes a challenge,

01:03:10.842 --> 01:03:11.682
like we were talking about, right?

01:03:11.902 --> 01:03:15.306
Stargate is its own product,

01:03:15.346 --> 01:03:16.547
so therefore that makes a lot more sense.

01:03:16.927 --> 01:03:18.268
It becomes impossible.

01:03:19.670 --> 01:03:20.731
Just to give you an idea,

01:03:21.092 --> 01:03:23.494
we have smart contracts in

01:03:23.594 --> 01:03:25.096
our initial version of the product.

01:03:25.096 --> 01:03:28.891
14 of them, which is a DEX,

01:03:29.353 --> 01:03:30.474
it's flash loan vaults,

01:03:30.653 --> 01:03:32.976
it's fee aggregation, buybacks,

01:03:33.315 --> 01:03:34.757
staking and distribution.

01:03:34.916 --> 01:03:36.478
So 14 contracts.

01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:39.521
So that means 14 proposals.

01:03:40.382 --> 01:03:41.543
Now you want to migrate

01:03:41.583 --> 01:03:43.565
something because there is

01:03:43.605 --> 01:03:46.327
a Cosmos bug like today.

01:03:48.262 --> 01:03:48.682
Impossible.

01:03:49.483 --> 01:03:50.284
It's it's just, you,

01:03:50.304 --> 01:03:51.704
you kind of run an application that way.

01:03:52.063 --> 01:03:54.605
Now then some smarter apps like osmosis,

01:03:54.625 --> 01:03:55.264
they just said, all right,

01:03:55.724 --> 01:03:57.204
then let's just white list

01:03:57.764 --> 01:03:58.565
some addresses.

01:03:58.965 --> 01:04:00.385
So now we're white listed on

01:04:00.445 --> 01:04:02.847
osmosis and we can deploy stuff there.

01:04:04.146 --> 01:04:05.967
So for us, it's wait, wait, wait, wait,

01:04:05.987 --> 01:04:06.268
hold on.

01:04:06.288 --> 01:04:07.367
Let me stop you there for a second.

01:04:08.447 --> 01:04:09.487
Osmosis was the original

01:04:09.547 --> 01:04:11.128
permission chain and they

01:04:11.168 --> 01:04:12.028
saw that it didn't work.

01:04:12.088 --> 01:04:12.849
And so they added like a

01:04:12.889 --> 01:04:14.309
white list system to it.

01:04:15.389 --> 01:04:15.530
Yeah.

01:04:18.496 --> 01:04:19.476
It's completely broken.

01:04:20.157 --> 01:04:21.338
You cannot use permission.

01:04:21.798 --> 01:04:24.001
And this experience has led

01:04:24.181 --> 01:04:26.284
to our decision to make

01:04:26.344 --> 01:04:27.565
Megaloo permissionless.

01:04:27.786 --> 01:04:28.827
Because if we have cause of

01:04:28.847 --> 01:04:30.489
wasm and we want to,

01:04:31.210 --> 01:04:31.951
we need to make it

01:04:31.990 --> 01:04:33.072
permissionless because we

01:04:33.092 --> 01:04:34.213
might as well not add it if

01:04:34.233 --> 01:04:34.994
we make it permissioned.

01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:37.101
Unless, you know,

01:04:37.161 --> 01:04:38.601
if you want other people to build there,

01:04:38.641 --> 01:04:39.523
if it's just, you know,

01:04:39.603 --> 01:04:40.543
your core team building

01:04:40.583 --> 01:04:43.103
stuff for your very niche specific chain,

01:04:43.143 --> 01:04:43.284
then,

01:04:44.003 --> 01:04:45.844
and you need to control the app space,

01:04:46.686 --> 01:04:48.085
the block space, then, you know,

01:04:48.286 --> 01:04:49.706
there might be reason to do it,

01:04:49.746 --> 01:04:51.168
but why limit it?

01:04:51.188 --> 01:04:51.527
You know,

01:04:51.568 --> 01:04:53.168
maybe there's a dev out there who's,

01:04:53.489 --> 01:04:54.228
who just wants to build

01:04:54.268 --> 01:04:55.289
something smart and deployed.

01:04:56.230 --> 01:05:00.891
So osmosis, injective, have whitelists.

01:05:03.661 --> 01:05:05.423
And yeah, we use them.

01:05:06.264 --> 01:05:07.045
And this makes it,

01:05:07.505 --> 01:05:08.867
once you're through governance,

01:05:08.947 --> 01:05:10.750
it makes it usable.

01:05:11.030 --> 01:05:11.230
Yeah.

01:05:11.891 --> 01:05:14.032
Because for us, it's now like a permission,

01:05:14.253 --> 01:05:15.014
permissionless chain.

01:05:15.034 --> 01:05:17.277
I mean, obviously, you know,

01:05:17.297 --> 01:05:18.797
there's oversight from governance and,

01:05:18.818 --> 01:05:19.039
you know,

01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:20.860
we made a prop to get the

01:05:20.900 --> 01:05:22.802
whitelist so we can start, you know,

01:05:22.842 --> 01:05:23.063
doing.

01:05:23.746 --> 01:05:24.668
random shit there now.

01:05:25.027 --> 01:05:26.228
Otherwise, it gets revoked.

01:05:26.748 --> 01:05:29.150
But for all means and purposes,

01:05:29.231 --> 01:05:30.110
it's permissionless for us.

01:05:30.490 --> 01:05:32.432
So we can do security migrations.

01:05:32.472 --> 01:05:33.733
We can do upgrades.

01:05:34.393 --> 01:05:37.655
We can add features to the product.

01:05:39.597 --> 01:05:42.338
But it's still a roadblocker for

01:05:44.900 --> 01:05:47.641
not offer smaller teams, you know,

01:05:47.802 --> 01:05:50.322
if you and your, your buddy, you know,

01:05:50.362 --> 01:05:51.943
from high school just decided to,

01:05:52.722 --> 01:05:55.204
you know, dive into Cosmos and react,

01:05:55.423 --> 01:05:57.304
build a cool little app, you know,

01:05:57.324 --> 01:05:58.684
you're not going through governance.

01:05:59.744 --> 01:05:59.905
Right.

01:06:00.465 --> 01:06:00.786
Right.

01:06:00.865 --> 01:06:03.565
Which, I mean, I don't, does the ad, does,

01:06:03.967 --> 01:06:05.567
does the hub need that type

01:06:05.666 --> 01:06:08.827
of project or not?

01:06:11.876 --> 01:06:12.097
Well,

01:06:12.137 --> 01:06:13.498
it's a question of what the hub wants

01:06:13.538 --> 01:06:13.759
to do.

01:06:13.778 --> 01:06:15.159
Yeah, good point.

01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:16.701
Oh, you got some balloons going on there.

01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:21.385
Well, if the hub wants Cosmos, implicitly,

01:06:21.644 --> 01:06:22.826
yes, right?

01:06:23.907 --> 01:06:26.289
If they're just... I don't know.

01:06:26.309 --> 01:06:26.909
It's back to, like,

01:06:26.949 --> 01:06:28.210
do they have a plan with all this?

01:06:28.309 --> 01:06:29.931
I assume somebody does.

01:06:30.871 --> 01:06:32.653
That's the whole Atom 2.0 thing,

01:06:32.733 --> 01:06:36.076
but... Well, yeah, I...

01:06:37.141 --> 01:06:38.483
because it wasn't adam 2.0

01:06:38.483 --> 01:06:39.882
and then this governance

01:06:39.922 --> 01:06:40.682
keeps coming up every I

01:06:41.164 --> 01:06:41.623
can't believe we talked

01:06:41.643 --> 01:06:42.304
about this topic for this

01:06:42.324 --> 01:06:43.463
song but that

01:06:43.505 --> 01:06:45.264
notwithstanding this just it

01:06:45.284 --> 01:06:46.045
keeps coming up every once

01:06:46.085 --> 01:06:46.786
in a while right and they

01:06:46.806 --> 01:06:48.146
just this last one like all

01:06:48.166 --> 01:06:49.067
right let's get this going

01:06:49.746 --> 01:06:50.947
I think it was jake coming

01:06:50.967 --> 01:06:51.728
on game and nodes and then

01:06:51.788 --> 01:06:52.827
obviously the push here

01:06:52.987 --> 01:06:53.809
that really probably pushed

01:06:53.829 --> 01:06:55.628
it over the edge we can

01:06:55.648 --> 01:06:59.931
agree on that yeah um so that that

01:07:00.427 --> 01:07:01.847
we helped with that tipping point.

01:07:01.947 --> 01:07:04.148
So now I guess there's a

01:07:04.188 --> 01:07:06.668
demand for that functionality.

01:07:07.248 --> 01:07:08.068
And now the question is

01:07:08.228 --> 01:07:09.568
what's the implementation plan, right?

01:07:09.668 --> 01:07:11.409
So Reese did say that it is

01:07:11.489 --> 01:07:14.449
permissioned to lead off, right?

01:07:17.409 --> 01:07:19.170
And so, I don't know,

01:07:19.610 --> 01:07:20.610
I guess from now there's a

01:07:20.670 --> 01:07:22.871
team that's defining what does that mean,

01:07:23.032 --> 01:07:23.192
right?

01:07:23.271 --> 01:07:24.411
And what types of projects and...

01:07:25.298 --> 01:07:26.139
kind of what goes forward.

01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:27.340
You also said Informa has a

01:07:27.380 --> 01:07:28.041
group with Neutron to

01:07:28.101 --> 01:07:29.461
ensure toes are not stepped on.

01:07:30.003 --> 01:07:32.003
And Neutron is one of those,

01:07:32.043 --> 01:07:32.744
but I wasn't even talking

01:07:32.764 --> 01:07:35.467
about that change that exists today.

01:07:35.487 --> 01:07:36.266
I was really talking about like,

01:07:36.327 --> 01:07:37.407
what does that really mean

01:07:37.447 --> 01:07:38.469
for interchange security down?

01:07:38.568 --> 01:07:38.728
Like,

01:07:39.869 --> 01:07:42.411
why would a new group that's building,

01:07:42.911 --> 01:07:43.172
you know,

01:07:43.273 --> 01:07:44.193
raising money to be able to

01:07:44.233 --> 01:07:45.213
build some functionality

01:07:45.373 --> 01:07:48.757
use ICS if there is this concern around,

01:07:50.257 --> 01:07:51.139
you know, competition or like...

01:07:54.331 --> 01:07:56.434
Now you're both the bank and you're,

01:07:57.134 --> 01:07:57.635
it's like getting a,

01:07:58.414 --> 01:07:59.396
it's not getting a loan.

01:07:59.956 --> 01:08:02.077
I think that's a weak argument though.

01:08:02.097 --> 01:08:02.958
I don't see this

01:08:02.998 --> 01:08:04.420
toe-stipping thing as being

01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:04.981
an issue at all.

01:08:05.380 --> 01:08:06.802
I mean, if it were an issue,

01:08:06.842 --> 01:08:07.742
then we wouldn't be seeing

01:08:07.762 --> 01:08:10.445
Eigen layer blow up on Ethereum, right?

01:08:10.485 --> 01:08:12.887
Ethereum is in effect a

01:08:12.987 --> 01:08:14.407
general smart contract platform.

01:08:15.009 --> 01:08:15.809
And yet there's still a

01:08:15.849 --> 01:08:17.490
bunch of things being built on it.

01:08:17.551 --> 01:08:18.511
There's still, you know,

01:08:18.631 --> 01:08:20.212
Arbitrum and stuff that are,

01:08:20.747 --> 01:08:21.448
working off of it.

01:08:21.469 --> 01:08:23.029
I don't see an issue with

01:08:23.550 --> 01:08:24.230
toes being stepped on

01:08:24.270 --> 01:08:24.952
unless we're talking about

01:08:24.971 --> 01:08:26.813
such a small user base that

01:08:27.654 --> 01:08:31.277
is vanishingly small value, which yeah.

01:08:34.739 --> 01:08:35.539
Yeah, that's a good point.

01:08:35.980 --> 01:08:36.201
I mean,

01:08:37.521 --> 01:08:42.605
Adam had $220 million of 24 hour volume,

01:08:43.067 --> 01:08:45.748
which is, which is really impressive,

01:08:45.809 --> 01:08:46.770
even though it's it's one

01:08:46.890 --> 01:08:49.032
fifth of dog with hat, but still,

01:08:51.015 --> 01:08:52.015
I mean, baby steps.

01:08:52.034 --> 01:08:52.796
We're getting towards it.

01:08:53.676 --> 01:08:55.936
Dog with hat moved 1.1

01:08:55.936 --> 01:08:58.177
billion USD in the last 24 hours.

01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:02.078
It's popular, man.

01:09:02.599 --> 01:09:04.579
I think half of that is null, right?

01:09:04.899 --> 01:09:07.560
Fucking arbitrage bots or

01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:08.581
some shit going on over there.

01:09:08.881 --> 01:09:10.221
I'm still diamond fisting my

01:09:10.261 --> 01:09:10.862
fucking whiff.

01:09:14.842 --> 01:09:15.384
It's so funny.

01:09:16.203 --> 01:09:16.423
Yeah.

01:09:18.394 --> 01:09:19.274
anything else you want to

01:09:19.295 --> 01:09:20.296
talk about for white whale

01:09:20.416 --> 01:09:21.497
anything before anything

01:09:22.717 --> 01:09:23.979
what's coming up next and

01:09:24.059 --> 01:09:24.779
all that kind of stuff your

01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.060
posts said uh lots of lots

01:09:27.100 --> 01:09:29.002
of information about uh

01:09:29.182 --> 01:09:32.525
alpha right alpha yeah

01:09:32.565 --> 01:09:33.386
there's always a lot lots

01:09:33.506 --> 01:09:35.287
of alpha going on airdrops

01:09:35.307 --> 01:09:39.452
you know free money nfts

01:09:39.511 --> 01:09:42.094
never free someone pays for it

01:09:44.970 --> 01:09:45.951
That's really bear mark

01:09:46.011 --> 01:09:47.873
vibes you're giving off here.

01:09:47.894 --> 01:09:48.694
I can't have that.

01:09:49.074 --> 01:09:50.796
Someone always pays for it.

01:09:50.856 --> 01:09:52.418
Where's the king token, man?

01:09:52.599 --> 01:09:53.581
Yeah, exactly.

01:09:53.701 --> 01:09:54.100
What the hell?

01:09:55.762 --> 01:09:55.983
Well,

01:09:56.023 --> 01:09:58.046
we've put it all on fucking number 10,

01:09:58.046 --> 01:09:59.868
so come back in three days.

01:09:59.988 --> 01:10:00.529
And now it's gone.

01:10:02.324 --> 01:10:05.907
and it's gone um yeah well

01:10:07.108 --> 01:10:09.470
any anything yeah as as sir

01:10:09.489 --> 01:10:09.989
was saying is there

01:10:10.109 --> 01:10:10.871
anything else you want to

01:10:10.930 --> 01:10:12.292
share about the chain or

01:10:12.332 --> 01:10:14.412
the future or the anything

01:10:14.453 --> 01:10:17.755
specific sure um so if you

01:10:17.774 --> 01:10:18.615
want to you know we've been

01:10:18.655 --> 01:10:20.197
building for for years now

01:10:20.716 --> 01:10:23.679
um built through the bear so um

01:10:24.688 --> 01:10:25.368
If you want to know what

01:10:25.408 --> 01:10:27.529
we've been building all

01:10:27.588 --> 01:10:28.948
over these years and how

01:10:29.149 --> 01:10:31.789
cross-chain protocols, the mad scientists,

01:10:32.750 --> 01:10:36.011
restaking, how that all works together,

01:10:36.490 --> 01:10:38.671
just go to our Twitter page, Discord,

01:10:39.372 --> 01:10:40.131
and start there.

01:10:40.271 --> 01:10:40.832
Have some fun.

01:10:41.212 --> 01:10:42.632
There's all the information you need.

01:10:46.234 --> 01:10:47.055
Are you closing this?

01:10:47.274 --> 01:10:49.096
Shall I start thanking everybody?

01:10:49.296 --> 01:10:51.479
No, we've got time.

01:10:51.498 --> 01:10:52.661
I just wanted to see if you

01:10:52.701 --> 01:10:54.903
had anything to say before

01:10:55.302 --> 01:10:56.305
the phrase starts talking

01:10:56.324 --> 01:10:57.725
about a fucking Docker hard drive again.

01:11:01.914 --> 01:11:03.354
I have another question.

01:11:03.375 --> 01:11:05.576
Would you consider

01:11:05.595 --> 01:11:08.997
interchain security now

01:11:09.037 --> 01:11:11.337
with the emergence of Layer

01:11:11.737 --> 01:11:14.478
2s and Layer 3s and whatever,

01:11:15.238 --> 01:11:16.819
would you just call it obsolete?

01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:21.439
Like just too slow?

01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:24.280
I think it was obsolete when it happened.

01:11:24.661 --> 01:11:25.940
Oh, agreed.

01:11:26.618 --> 01:11:28.279
But that's not to say that I

01:11:28.319 --> 01:11:29.380
think EigenLayer is any better.

01:11:30.001 --> 01:11:31.962
I think EigenLayer is going

01:11:32.002 --> 01:11:32.762
to basically go through

01:11:32.783 --> 01:11:33.503
what we went through in the

01:11:33.524 --> 01:11:34.685
Cosmos a couple of years ago,

01:11:34.864 --> 01:11:35.626
and that there's going to

01:11:35.645 --> 01:11:36.386
be an insane amount of

01:11:36.407 --> 01:11:37.346
change that launch.

01:11:38.148 --> 01:11:40.550
And then people are going to realize, oh,

01:11:40.710 --> 01:11:42.372
I've got, let's say,

01:11:42.372 --> 01:11:45.675
10 Ethereum restaked using EigenLayer.

01:11:45.715 --> 01:11:46.314
And then they realize

01:11:46.335 --> 01:11:46.775
they're actually not

01:11:46.796 --> 01:11:47.896
getting anything because

01:11:48.237 --> 01:11:48.936
these platforms aren't

01:11:49.257 --> 01:11:50.559
providing any sort of income.

01:11:51.277 --> 01:11:53.918
like not enough usage to be worth it.

01:11:53.979 --> 01:11:56.039
Yeah, and they have like a PVL of like $5.

01:11:56.039 --> 01:11:58.381
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

01:11:58.442 --> 01:12:01.663
So I'm very skeptical of it

01:12:02.345 --> 01:12:02.984
from the start.

01:12:04.126 --> 01:12:05.926
I think mesh security is way

01:12:05.966 --> 01:12:07.547
more exciting where it's kind of,

01:12:09.289 --> 01:12:10.751
for lack of a better word, incestuous.

01:12:20.393 --> 01:12:21.753
Jeez, that was quite the pause there.

01:12:21.774 --> 01:12:22.213
That was good.

01:12:22.234 --> 01:12:23.354
I mean, what else are you going to say?

01:12:24.015 --> 01:12:25.076
We've got nothing to add to it.

01:12:25.596 --> 01:12:27.457
That was a tense pause here, man.

01:12:27.837 --> 01:12:30.000
No, no tense.

01:12:30.220 --> 01:12:32.140
I think we talked about it early on,

01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:34.882
it being kind of worthless at the go.

01:12:34.943 --> 01:12:36.163
But yeah, I agree.

01:12:36.944 --> 01:12:38.345
What's going on with mesh security anyway?

01:12:39.166 --> 01:12:39.565
What's the latest?

01:12:39.586 --> 01:12:39.865
I don't know.

01:12:40.426 --> 01:12:42.007
Jake keeps saying that it's still going.

01:12:42.307 --> 01:12:43.609
So I trust Jake.

01:12:44.917 --> 01:12:47.862
that's all I got I thought

01:12:47.881 --> 01:12:48.743
there wasn't there wasn't

01:12:48.764 --> 01:12:50.206
there some uh there was a

01:12:50.246 --> 01:12:51.608
test net I thought right

01:12:51.809 --> 01:12:52.750
like with osmosis or

01:12:52.770 --> 01:12:53.490
something else like that

01:12:54.152 --> 01:12:55.033
and sunny you know something

01:12:55.805 --> 01:12:57.527
yeah there's some stuff

01:12:57.567 --> 01:12:59.469
going on I think I don't

01:12:59.488 --> 01:13:02.292
know I i uh I I've yeah I

01:13:02.332 --> 01:13:06.996
mean yeah whatever man well

01:13:07.195 --> 01:13:08.277
so well obviously like you

01:13:08.296 --> 01:13:09.439
know I have I have like I

01:13:10.059 --> 01:13:11.541
I've gone a completely

01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:12.381
different way where now

01:13:12.421 --> 01:13:13.983
like I just spent a lot of

01:13:14.023 --> 01:13:15.664
my week thinking about digital cash and

01:13:17.037 --> 01:13:18.319
And thinking about how you

01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:20.680
actually spend money

01:13:20.921 --> 01:13:23.262
securely without exposing a

01:13:23.302 --> 01:13:28.287
bunch of shit about yourself and whatnot.

01:13:28.408 --> 01:13:29.849
I just think the interrupt

01:13:29.868 --> 01:13:31.189
layer is the protocol.

01:13:31.229 --> 01:13:32.011
I think that's actually

01:13:32.051 --> 01:13:33.072
the... I think everything

01:13:33.152 --> 01:13:34.131
actually you need to do

01:13:34.432 --> 01:13:35.412
with all these networks,

01:13:36.293 --> 01:13:37.555
you can literally just do

01:13:37.574 --> 01:13:40.618
the absolute majority of

01:13:40.637 --> 01:13:43.739
the work at the edge.

01:13:44.461 --> 01:13:45.341
And actually the...

01:13:46.470 --> 01:13:47.612
The only thing you really

01:13:48.072 --> 01:13:49.073
need to use a blockchain

01:13:49.113 --> 01:13:49.953
for is settlement.

01:13:50.734 --> 01:13:51.314
Hold on.

01:13:51.375 --> 01:13:52.194
What do you mean when you

01:13:52.234 --> 01:13:53.475
say the edge in this context?

01:13:53.756 --> 01:13:56.899
So you have, okay.

01:13:56.918 --> 01:13:59.940
So like IBC is a stateful,

01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:01.761
a stateful protocol,

01:14:01.921 --> 01:14:03.802
which ultimately results in

01:14:04.024 --> 01:14:06.484
an asset coming to rest on a blockchain.

01:14:07.326 --> 01:14:08.447
It just so happens that you

01:14:08.527 --> 01:14:09.908
probably fired it in from a

01:14:09.948 --> 01:14:10.688
different blockchain.

01:14:11.069 --> 01:14:11.229
Right.

01:14:13.934 --> 01:14:14.595
But actually,

01:14:14.614 --> 01:14:18.056
and this gets into complexities of like,

01:14:18.938 --> 01:14:20.699
what data representation do you want?

01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:21.720
Where does state live?

01:14:21.801 --> 01:14:22.720
How do you model it?

01:14:22.801 --> 01:14:24.882
How, what cryptography are you using?

01:14:24.962 --> 01:14:28.326
But like that layer actually

01:14:28.386 --> 01:14:30.568
is semi-stateful and you don't actually

01:14:33.552 --> 01:14:35.898
you don't, it all comes down to finality,

01:14:35.997 --> 01:14:36.238
right?

01:14:37.820 --> 01:14:39.184
And how you settle finality.

01:14:39.224 --> 01:14:40.246
But if in that layer,

01:14:40.326 --> 01:14:41.627
you don't assume that your

01:14:41.667 --> 01:14:42.990
input is a blockchain and

01:14:43.872 --> 01:14:45.314
you assume that your input is

01:14:46.444 --> 01:14:47.706
itself, right?

01:14:48.326 --> 01:14:49.908
And it's just an API or whatever,

01:14:49.948 --> 01:14:50.828
and it's just a protocol

01:14:50.847 --> 01:14:52.389
layer that will ultimately

01:14:52.449 --> 01:14:53.350
settle something on a

01:14:53.369 --> 01:14:55.271
blockchain as a proof.

01:14:55.292 --> 01:14:55.652
I mean,

01:14:55.671 --> 01:14:57.252
this is basically how all Ethereum

01:14:57.353 --> 01:14:58.373
L2s work, right?

01:14:58.913 --> 01:14:59.314
Ultimately,

01:14:59.354 --> 01:15:01.456
they aggregate some hashes or

01:15:01.555 --> 01:15:03.917
whatever the meme word is, rollups,

01:15:04.158 --> 01:15:04.377
right?

01:15:04.779 --> 01:15:05.198
Or whatever.

01:15:06.372 --> 01:15:07.654
They aggregate some hashes.

01:15:08.293 --> 01:15:09.274
They aggregate a directed

01:15:09.335 --> 01:15:11.315
acyclical graph or something like that,

01:15:12.076 --> 01:15:14.016
or a Merkle root or something like that,

01:15:14.176 --> 01:15:15.158
all the way up to Ethereum.

01:15:16.018 --> 01:15:17.738
And they settle it on a much

01:15:17.798 --> 01:15:19.640
slower rate of finality

01:15:20.420 --> 01:15:21.560
than their actual system.

01:15:23.822 --> 01:15:26.023
So this is already very well understood.

01:15:26.162 --> 01:15:27.564
That's how a lot of L2s work.

01:15:27.743 --> 01:15:29.064
And essentially,

01:15:29.385 --> 01:15:30.926
your interchange protocol can actually

01:15:31.720 --> 01:15:32.443
do a lot of that work.

01:15:32.483 --> 01:15:33.164
And I think that's kind of

01:15:33.204 --> 01:15:34.828
how Arbitrum works, right?

01:15:34.988 --> 01:15:36.332
Under the hood, it's something like that.

01:15:39.229 --> 01:15:41.211
But yeah, I don't know.

01:15:41.411 --> 01:15:42.371
I'm kind of just bearish

01:15:42.411 --> 01:15:45.112
completely on... I'm actually just really,

01:15:45.152 --> 01:15:46.091
really bearish in general

01:15:46.171 --> 01:15:47.391
on actually sharing

01:15:47.471 --> 01:15:48.832
anything on blockchains, really.

01:15:49.332 --> 01:15:51.393
I think the technology... I

01:15:51.412 --> 01:15:53.594
would say it's because I've

01:15:53.613 --> 01:15:54.474
spent the last two months

01:15:54.514 --> 01:15:55.814
reading consensus papers, right?

01:15:56.213 --> 01:15:57.854
But I've come back around to

01:15:57.875 --> 01:15:59.015
the idea that the thing

01:15:59.034 --> 01:15:59.555
that's really exciting

01:15:59.574 --> 01:16:00.336
about blockchains is the

01:16:00.376 --> 01:16:01.515
consensus engine stuff.

01:16:02.475 --> 01:16:04.838
And the state stuff is like, wait, wait,

01:16:04.859 --> 01:16:04.979
wait,

01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:06.461
why am I sharing the contents of the

01:16:06.501 --> 01:16:08.002
database with the entire world?

01:16:08.063 --> 01:16:08.844
This is madness.

01:16:08.904 --> 01:16:10.105
Like it just doesn't need to happen.

01:16:10.605 --> 01:16:11.787
Like the state can be done

01:16:11.828 --> 01:16:12.868
in a different way and you

01:16:12.908 --> 01:16:14.270
can still do defy and loads

01:16:14.310 --> 01:16:14.792
of other stuff.

01:16:14.811 --> 01:16:15.051
It's just,

01:16:15.091 --> 01:16:16.212
you won't get front run every

01:16:16.252 --> 01:16:17.956
time you want to scratch your balls.

01:16:18.055 --> 01:16:18.216
Like

01:16:18.828 --> 01:16:20.529
You can just not broadcast

01:16:20.548 --> 01:16:21.829
that data and not broadcast

01:16:21.850 --> 01:16:23.449
your bank balance while you're doing it.

01:16:23.529 --> 01:16:25.189
Christ.

01:16:25.449 --> 01:16:26.131
Your excitement about

01:16:26.171 --> 01:16:27.171
blockchain is exactly what

01:16:27.190 --> 01:16:27.951
we're talking about with Adam.

01:16:28.770 --> 01:16:30.832
You're excited about the potential,

01:16:31.492 --> 01:16:32.851
not actually the reality.

01:16:33.891 --> 01:16:35.672
Yeah.

01:16:35.693 --> 01:16:37.592
My excitement comes back

01:16:37.613 --> 01:16:38.653
down to- Holy shit.

01:16:38.672 --> 01:16:39.832
Have you seen this technology?

01:16:39.872 --> 01:16:40.533
It's amazing.

01:16:40.573 --> 01:16:41.654
The state, it's incredible.

01:16:41.673 --> 01:16:42.493
What are you going to do with it?

01:16:42.702 --> 01:16:43.981
consensus engines are

01:16:44.002 --> 01:16:45.203
fucking really cool and the

01:16:45.222 --> 01:16:46.162
technology that's gone into

01:16:46.203 --> 01:16:46.922
them over the last few

01:16:46.962 --> 01:16:47.863
years as a result of

01:16:47.903 --> 01:16:49.243
blockchain interest is

01:16:49.344 --> 01:16:51.884
insane it's so so powerful

01:16:51.923 --> 01:16:53.284
and interesting and the

01:16:53.345 --> 01:16:54.604
power to do like you know

01:16:54.784 --> 01:16:56.104
build economic systems and

01:16:56.685 --> 01:16:57.485
smart contracts and all

01:16:57.506 --> 01:16:59.265
that sort of stuff and like

01:16:59.305 --> 01:17:00.246
currently what we're doing

01:17:00.305 --> 01:17:01.365
is we're broadcasting all

01:17:01.386 --> 01:17:02.306
of our financial data

01:17:02.346 --> 01:17:04.567
online in a way that's not

01:17:04.606 --> 01:17:06.307
secure in a way that is

01:17:07.127 --> 01:17:08.188
radically detrimental to

01:17:08.247 --> 01:17:09.648
our economic our personal

01:17:09.688 --> 01:17:11.628
financial health um

01:17:13.917 --> 01:17:15.317
it's baffling like the more

01:17:15.337 --> 01:17:16.278
you step back and think

01:17:16.318 --> 01:17:17.578
about what we did what we

01:17:17.597 --> 01:17:18.557
built here with this really

01:17:18.597 --> 01:17:20.099
cool technology the more

01:17:20.139 --> 01:17:21.798
and more baffling it is and

01:17:22.939 --> 01:17:24.500
um yeah yeah so I don't

01:17:24.539 --> 01:17:25.659
know like I i think I think

01:17:25.819 --> 01:17:26.940
I think the one thing that

01:17:27.001 --> 01:17:28.440
that mesh and eigen layer

01:17:28.461 --> 01:17:29.140
and all these guys get

01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:31.841
right is that tvl needs to

01:17:31.881 --> 01:17:33.341
be in the interop layer

01:17:33.402 --> 01:17:35.443
that's like my my tldr like

01:17:36.403 --> 01:17:37.162
a couple of months of

01:17:37.203 --> 01:17:38.144
thinking about this quite

01:17:38.163 --> 01:17:39.564
intensely and reading too

01:17:39.604 --> 01:17:40.724
many papers on consensus

01:17:40.804 --> 01:17:42.444
and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

01:17:43.555 --> 01:17:44.657
I'm like, no, they are right.

01:17:44.716 --> 01:17:45.337
They are right.

01:17:45.377 --> 01:17:45.856
They are right.

01:17:45.877 --> 01:17:47.217
From an operational perspective.

01:17:47.257 --> 01:17:47.698
They're right.

01:17:47.738 --> 01:17:48.958
As far as I understand the

01:17:48.998 --> 01:17:50.220
research in this area.

01:17:50.319 --> 01:17:51.159
And I think they're right on

01:17:51.199 --> 01:17:52.161
an economic basis.

01:17:52.261 --> 01:17:53.841
I just think there's a bunch of other,

01:17:55.322 --> 01:17:57.002
that's a very emerging design space.

01:17:57.063 --> 01:17:57.262
Right.

01:17:57.804 --> 01:17:58.484
It is essentially,

01:17:58.524 --> 01:18:00.744
I think where I would come down on it.

01:18:00.885 --> 01:18:04.027
And I think it's quite

01:18:04.046 --> 01:18:05.007
difficult to iterate in

01:18:05.028 --> 01:18:05.768
that direction from,

01:18:05.927 --> 01:18:07.109
I already have a blockchain

01:18:07.149 --> 01:18:08.269
and I want to do a protocol

01:18:08.288 --> 01:18:09.489
like I can layer or mesh.

01:18:10.046 --> 01:18:11.326
Whereas if you start from the space of,

01:18:11.345 --> 01:18:13.726
I don't want to have the

01:18:13.787 --> 01:18:15.087
requirement of a blockchain,

01:18:15.368 --> 01:18:18.269
but I want to settle finality somewhere.

01:18:19.488 --> 01:18:21.090
And it could be a blockchain.

01:18:21.949 --> 01:18:22.350
You then,

01:18:22.530 --> 01:18:23.990
you're in a very different design

01:18:24.030 --> 01:18:26.091
space where you're having

01:18:26.112 --> 01:18:27.853
to build something very general purpose.

01:18:28.512 --> 01:18:31.253
And it's really hard, right?

01:18:32.253 --> 01:18:33.234
Like, you know,

01:18:33.414 --> 01:18:34.454
I'm just fucking sitting on

01:18:34.515 --> 01:18:36.076
a beanbag thinking about this bullshit,

01:18:36.136 --> 01:18:36.695
right, at the moment.

01:18:36.756 --> 01:18:36.916
Like,

01:18:39.189 --> 01:18:40.451
Like, do I have the answers?

01:18:40.490 --> 01:18:40.911
Do I fuck?

01:18:40.970 --> 01:18:41.532
If I had the answers,

01:18:41.591 --> 01:18:42.752
I'd be on a beach right now, man.

01:18:42.912 --> 01:18:43.613
Like, of course.

01:18:43.632 --> 01:18:45.814
Sitting out on beanbags.

01:18:46.756 --> 01:18:47.877
Yeah.

01:18:47.896 --> 01:18:48.717
That's where you do your thinking,

01:18:48.757 --> 01:18:51.000
isn't it?

01:18:51.579 --> 01:18:52.400
Humanities degree.

01:18:52.520 --> 01:18:53.141
At least that's what my

01:18:53.162 --> 01:18:54.643
humanities degree was like 15 years ago.

01:18:54.662 --> 01:18:56.043
Where does the TVL sit?

01:18:58.667 --> 01:18:59.327
Don't even know.

01:19:00.347 --> 01:19:01.448
So when are we launching a

01:19:01.469 --> 01:19:02.489
robot jocks meme coin?

01:19:02.970 --> 01:19:03.890
That's the real question, right?

01:19:04.110 --> 01:19:04.511
I don't know.

01:19:05.512 --> 01:19:05.872
With Hap?

01:19:08.145 --> 01:19:10.226
Everybody killed you right here.

01:19:10.247 --> 01:19:16.529
Can we launch a mean coin

01:19:16.550 --> 01:19:17.850
that is worth $2 billion?

01:19:17.970 --> 01:19:19.490
I don't know.

01:19:19.511 --> 01:19:20.110
That's easy.

01:19:20.131 --> 01:19:22.131
You can just win 2 billion

01:19:22.192 --> 01:19:25.073
tokens and list one token for $1.

01:19:25.073 --> 01:19:25.552
There you go.

01:19:26.474 --> 01:19:27.173
TVL set.

01:19:28.293 --> 01:19:28.975
Master plan.

01:19:29.034 --> 01:19:29.795
Let's do that with King.

01:19:32.815 --> 01:19:35.377
The first trillion dollar asset in Cosmos.

01:19:36.078 --> 01:19:38.920
There's only one for sale.

01:19:40.981 --> 01:19:41.761
Liquidity won.

01:19:41.782 --> 01:19:41.761
$100.

01:19:43.583 --> 01:19:50.287
Anything else in the news

01:19:50.307 --> 01:19:50.849
you want to talk about?

01:19:50.868 --> 01:19:53.631
The stride prop and stargaze?

01:19:53.650 --> 01:19:54.792
You guys want to talk about anything else?

01:19:55.551 --> 01:19:55.752
I mean,

01:19:55.771 --> 01:19:56.832
the stride prop and stargaze is

01:19:56.872 --> 01:19:57.533
interesting, isn't it?

01:19:57.552 --> 01:19:59.774
I thought it was a little bit interesting.

01:20:00.496 --> 01:20:01.195
What's happening there?

01:20:01.235 --> 01:20:01.936
Can you give the TLDR?

01:20:03.908 --> 01:20:07.512
Proposal 267, which finalized last week.

01:20:07.552 --> 01:20:08.555
I think when we were going

01:20:08.574 --> 01:20:09.136
to meet last week,

01:20:09.155 --> 01:20:10.497
I think it was still in the middle of it.

01:20:12.619 --> 01:20:14.680
It is the community.

01:20:14.820 --> 01:20:18.042
So the community actually rejected it.

01:20:18.063 --> 01:20:19.764
52%, 399 million stars.

01:20:21.043 --> 01:20:23.765
The stride request 10% of

01:20:23.786 --> 01:20:24.386
the community pool,

01:20:24.426 --> 01:20:26.707
about $1.8 million to

01:20:26.747 --> 01:20:29.389
liquid stake and stars for

01:20:29.529 --> 01:20:31.550
ST stars to use a quote in

01:20:31.569 --> 01:20:33.890
DeFi and allow NFT minting

01:20:34.171 --> 01:20:35.452
as all stars are staked.

01:20:36.993 --> 01:20:37.993
The interesting part, I think,

01:20:38.854 --> 01:20:40.175
that came out of this was

01:20:40.435 --> 01:20:42.657
the kind of vote breakdown was,

01:20:43.136 --> 01:20:44.578
at least from the validator side, which,

01:20:44.698 --> 01:20:44.979
again,

01:20:45.418 --> 01:20:47.159
is stupid fucking metric for any

01:20:47.260 --> 01:20:48.621
sort of governance breakdown.

01:20:48.782 --> 01:20:49.662
Let's just get that straight.

01:20:50.943 --> 01:20:52.885
It was primarily validators

01:20:52.904 --> 01:20:55.206
that were part of the stride group.

01:20:57.568 --> 01:20:58.389
Some might say cartel.

01:20:59.359 --> 01:21:02.145
that are in that that voted

01:21:02.164 --> 01:21:05.050
yes and everybody else voted no for this.

01:21:05.069 --> 01:21:08.395
Proof of lobbying here, right?

01:21:09.037 --> 01:21:09.918
Proof of lobby.

01:21:11.128 --> 01:21:12.670
It is a, I think that's a,

01:21:12.829 --> 01:21:13.729
that's a way of saying it.

01:21:13.789 --> 01:21:13.990
Yeah.

01:21:14.331 --> 01:21:14.551
Yeah.

01:21:14.730 --> 01:21:15.912
So I think it's just,

01:21:16.051 --> 01:21:17.231
it goes back to governance,

01:21:17.311 --> 01:21:18.233
which is one of the

01:21:18.292 --> 01:21:19.332
underlying things in here.

01:21:19.372 --> 01:21:20.854
It's tough to, it's tough to have.

01:21:20.873 --> 01:21:23.315
And again, I think this was a,

01:21:23.536 --> 01:21:24.555
I don't think this was a great proposal.

01:21:24.576 --> 01:21:25.837
I think there's way too much money and I,

01:21:26.096 --> 01:21:26.777
it just seemed to be a

01:21:26.796 --> 01:21:27.497
little bit ridiculous to me,

01:21:27.537 --> 01:21:27.978
but whatever.

01:21:28.578 --> 01:21:29.319
We're way too many stars.

01:21:29.519 --> 01:21:32.661
And, but the idea that, that,

01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:35.481
that validators are voting

01:21:35.601 --> 01:21:38.484
on items that affect their own, their,

01:21:39.403 --> 01:21:40.503
their own ability to make

01:21:40.703 --> 01:21:42.545
and earn is fucking stupid.

01:21:43.045 --> 01:21:44.645
I've literally just realized

01:21:44.685 --> 01:21:47.186
that this is a citable

01:21:47.247 --> 01:21:48.988
example for a thing that I

01:21:49.047 --> 01:21:50.849
predicted would happen in my paper.

01:21:51.948 --> 01:21:54.010
And I'm going to put it in

01:21:54.090 --> 01:21:55.591
my paper that's currently

01:21:55.610 --> 01:21:57.671
at the second draft stage.

01:21:58.929 --> 01:21:59.988
I'm not sure exactly what

01:22:00.009 --> 01:22:01.248
that star group is on Stargaze,

01:22:01.328 --> 01:22:01.750
to be honest,

01:22:01.770 --> 01:22:03.090
so I'm not sure how well it

01:22:03.130 --> 01:22:04.909
aligns or what the percentages are,

01:22:04.949 --> 01:22:05.770
but I'm sure you'll do that.

01:22:05.810 --> 01:22:07.671
I'm going to pull the data and have a look,

01:22:07.751 --> 01:22:09.791
because if this does line up,

01:22:10.230 --> 01:22:12.171
it's just a fucking slam dunk.

01:22:12.190 --> 01:22:12.411
Hey,

01:22:12.551 --> 01:22:15.572
here's an example of... Because if

01:22:15.612 --> 01:22:16.952
you... One of the things

01:22:16.971 --> 01:22:17.712
that's interesting about,

01:22:17.731 --> 01:22:18.811
at least my understanding

01:22:18.851 --> 01:22:20.052
of a lot of people I've

01:22:20.092 --> 01:22:21.993
talked to in the academic world,

01:22:22.113 --> 01:22:23.512
is that a lot of people's

01:22:23.552 --> 01:22:25.052
examples are Ethereum.

01:22:25.092 --> 01:22:25.974
People aren't really aware

01:22:25.993 --> 01:22:27.613
of alts other than Ethereum.

01:22:28.555 --> 01:22:31.177
So people will theorize, well,

01:22:31.677 --> 01:22:35.039
at least people, the general people,

01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:36.399
like this is not strictly true.

01:22:36.420 --> 01:22:37.041
There are loads of people

01:22:37.081 --> 01:22:38.341
working on loads of different things,

01:22:38.542 --> 01:22:39.181
like whatever.

01:22:40.143 --> 01:22:41.243
The tiny little window into

01:22:41.302 --> 01:22:42.404
academia that I have,

01:22:44.064 --> 01:22:45.404
people are often not aware

01:22:45.626 --> 01:22:47.506
of other alts on Ethereum.

01:22:47.546 --> 01:22:48.447
And so they'll say like, oh,

01:22:50.148 --> 01:22:51.248
I think this will happen.

01:22:52.118 --> 01:22:53.139
And there's quite a lot of

01:22:53.179 --> 01:22:55.439
times genuinely where you go like, dude,

01:22:55.460 --> 01:22:56.840
that has happened in Cosmos.

01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:57.461
They were like, what?

01:22:57.720 --> 01:22:59.820
And you're like, ah, let me dig out.

01:22:59.881 --> 01:23:01.181
I'll dig out a proposal for you.

01:23:01.221 --> 01:23:03.082
I'll show you.

01:23:03.101 --> 01:23:04.783
And especially where it's

01:23:04.823 --> 01:23:06.243
like non-technical stuff,

01:23:06.283 --> 01:23:06.622
where it's like

01:23:06.682 --> 01:23:08.043
organizational design stuff

01:23:08.083 --> 01:23:09.783
or business school stuff or whatever.

01:23:09.823 --> 01:23:10.684
And they're kind of from

01:23:10.724 --> 01:23:11.864
that end of the pond where they're like,

01:23:11.965 --> 01:23:12.564
oh, yeah, you know,

01:23:12.604 --> 01:23:13.904
you can see a conflict of interest.

01:23:13.925 --> 01:23:16.006
You're like, conflict of interest, is it?

01:23:16.677 --> 01:23:17.878
Let me tell you.

01:23:19.139 --> 01:23:19.960
Or whatever it might be.

01:23:20.060 --> 01:23:21.060
So, but anyway.

01:23:22.081 --> 01:23:22.301
Yeah.

01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:24.462
This one could do me well.

01:23:24.641 --> 01:23:26.722
Thank you, Rama.

01:23:27.783 --> 01:23:28.904
2,500 voted accounts.

01:23:29.265 --> 01:23:30.265
I'm not sure how many wallet

01:23:30.284 --> 01:23:31.365
holders there are in Stargaze,

01:23:31.405 --> 01:23:32.126
but I know it's

01:23:32.326 --> 01:23:33.546
significantly higher than 2,500.

01:23:33.546 --> 01:23:34.067
Yeah.

01:23:36.387 --> 01:23:37.868
So, I don't know.

01:23:38.850 --> 01:23:40.230
This, well,

01:23:40.251 --> 01:23:41.470
I'm tired of talking about

01:23:41.490 --> 01:23:42.332
Cosmos governance, but...

01:23:43.868 --> 01:23:47.288
This is the Cosmos Governance podcast.

01:23:47.609 --> 01:23:48.390
It don't work, yo.

01:23:48.510 --> 01:23:49.090
I mean,

01:23:49.109 --> 01:23:50.730
this is historically the Cosmos

01:23:50.751 --> 01:23:51.770
Governance podcast.

01:23:52.452 --> 01:23:54.091
Now on our 110th episode.

01:23:54.431 --> 01:23:54.612
Yeah.

01:23:56.393 --> 01:23:58.413
And Tax Advice podcast.

01:23:59.354 --> 01:23:59.694
Of course.

01:23:59.954 --> 01:24:00.114
I mean,

01:24:00.135 --> 01:24:01.895
that was really the subtitle of

01:24:01.914 --> 01:24:02.355
this whole thing.

01:24:02.395 --> 01:24:03.916
The only tax advice is to

01:24:03.956 --> 01:24:05.516
get tax advice and don't

01:24:05.556 --> 01:24:06.737
trust our tax advice.

01:24:07.837 --> 01:24:08.518
Yeah.

01:24:08.578 --> 01:24:09.998
I'm just happy to be past April.

01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:12.979
Are they reviewing your tax year now?

01:24:13.737 --> 01:24:15.439
Well, April 15th, well, I mean,

01:24:15.458 --> 01:24:16.560
tax year is calendar year,

01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:19.962
but for business taxes,

01:24:20.002 --> 01:24:21.364
we're due in middle of

01:24:21.385 --> 01:24:22.466
March here in the U.S.,

01:24:22.546 --> 01:24:23.787
and then personal taxes are

01:24:24.568 --> 01:24:25.408
in the middle of April.

01:24:25.909 --> 01:24:27.891
And so those went out.

01:24:29.512 --> 01:24:32.036
So that's always painful,

01:24:32.076 --> 01:24:33.516
depending on what you do in terms of...

01:24:34.594 --> 01:24:35.594
And you're not in jail yet.

01:24:36.394 --> 01:24:36.654
Not yet.

01:24:36.894 --> 01:24:37.073
Well,

01:24:37.134 --> 01:24:38.435
usually a couple of months behind or

01:24:38.454 --> 01:24:39.475
a couple of years behind CENTCOM.

01:24:39.494 --> 01:24:42.735
So in 2026, I assume we'll do a lot.

01:24:42.756 --> 01:24:43.756
Government only comes after

01:24:43.796 --> 01:24:44.756
you in the bear market when

01:24:44.796 --> 01:24:45.716
you stop paying tax.

01:24:45.756 --> 01:24:46.956
And they're like, hang on a minute,

01:24:47.015 --> 01:24:47.515
motherfucker.

01:24:47.595 --> 01:24:49.237
Well, I'm getting deal.

01:24:49.737 --> 01:24:50.417
I'm getting notices.

01:24:50.577 --> 01:24:52.716
I'm getting notices of true ups for 2022.

01:24:53.296 --> 01:24:54.057
So that's like,

01:24:54.118 --> 01:24:55.898
so basically here in April of 2024,

01:24:55.898 --> 01:24:56.497
they're,

01:24:56.597 --> 01:24:58.438
they're finalizing 2022 tax year.

01:24:59.099 --> 01:25:00.958
So it's usually about, that's about right.

01:25:01.578 --> 01:25:02.940
figure 16 18 months behind

01:25:02.961 --> 01:25:04.462
until they do whatever so I

01:25:04.502 --> 01:25:05.662
just got a pa notice for

01:25:05.703 --> 01:25:06.463
something and some other

01:25:06.484 --> 01:25:07.786
shit nothing nothing crazy

01:25:07.826 --> 01:25:10.108
just like just is that like

01:25:10.167 --> 01:25:11.729
an audit some sort of audit

01:25:12.090 --> 01:25:14.492
no I mean the taxes in the

01:25:14.551 --> 01:25:16.373
us are like like it's a

01:25:16.413 --> 01:25:18.115
really difficult game of

01:25:18.155 --> 01:25:19.377
really complicated rules

01:25:19.457 --> 01:25:20.418
right so you end up hiring

01:25:20.458 --> 01:25:21.539
professionals to do that or

01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:22.360
if you do it on your own

01:25:22.961 --> 01:25:24.805
And then then those entities

01:25:24.885 --> 01:25:26.347
have the same data, right?

01:25:26.408 --> 01:25:27.570
So like any anybody,

01:25:28.332 --> 01:25:29.375
crypto obviously is a

01:25:29.716 --> 01:25:31.099
pretty large blind spot for them.

01:25:31.139 --> 01:25:32.480
So that's the reason why there's so much

01:25:33.364 --> 01:25:34.324
so much consternation but

01:25:34.744 --> 01:25:36.025
but um if you're getting

01:25:36.105 --> 01:25:38.546
you know from um k1s here

01:25:38.565 --> 01:25:39.706
in the u.s which is like a

01:25:39.905 --> 01:25:40.905
you know a distribution

01:25:40.926 --> 01:25:41.606
that's coming in from a

01:25:41.726 --> 01:25:42.867
private entity of some sort

01:25:43.067 --> 01:25:44.686
or if you're getting uh you

01:25:44.707 --> 01:25:46.587
know 1099s or anything

01:25:46.606 --> 01:25:48.427
coming in from w2s they get

01:25:48.448 --> 01:25:49.488
a copy of all that shit and

01:25:49.547 --> 01:25:50.908
so at some point the

01:25:50.927 --> 01:25:52.149
computers run and they say

01:25:52.189 --> 01:25:53.328
oh this is what this person

01:25:53.349 --> 01:25:54.248
submitted and this is what

01:25:54.288 --> 01:25:56.189
the data that we have and

01:25:56.229 --> 01:25:57.770
they say this is a this is

01:25:58.130 --> 01:25:59.449
off so therefore you owe us

01:26:00.449 --> 01:26:01.591
money or we owe you money

01:26:01.690 --> 01:26:03.171
and it's sometimes the

01:26:03.212 --> 01:26:03.992
latter but mostly the

01:26:04.032 --> 01:26:05.753
former right and and it's

01:26:05.873 --> 01:26:07.154
up to you as the individual

01:26:07.215 --> 01:26:08.175
to be able to go fight that

01:26:08.475 --> 01:26:10.337
right so even though you're

01:26:10.516 --> 01:26:12.257
presenting data they have

01:26:12.278 --> 01:26:13.259
their own data and that is

01:26:13.298 --> 01:26:14.418
the accurate information

01:26:14.920 --> 01:26:15.939
and so therefore you're in

01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:17.140
this position of and then

01:26:17.240 --> 01:26:18.202
if you're wrong by that

01:26:18.242 --> 01:26:19.542
amount then it you go back

01:26:19.582 --> 01:26:20.243
and you end up paying

01:26:20.363 --> 01:26:21.524
penalties from the point of

01:26:21.583 --> 01:26:22.324
when that was due

01:26:22.925 --> 01:26:23.786
And so it ends up becoming

01:26:23.826 --> 01:26:25.326
this very vicious cycle around,

01:26:25.827 --> 01:26:26.367
around whatever.

01:26:26.426 --> 01:26:26.987
So I think there's a,

01:26:27.287 --> 01:26:28.047
there's some famous quote.

01:26:28.068 --> 01:26:29.288
I've never, somebody came up with it,

01:26:29.328 --> 01:26:30.309
but the idea of it is basically,

01:26:30.328 --> 01:26:30.628
it's like a,

01:26:30.649 --> 01:26:31.949
it's like a rig game where

01:26:31.970 --> 01:26:33.951
you're in this mire of

01:26:34.030 --> 01:26:35.011
complexity and then they

01:26:35.051 --> 01:26:35.952
have the actual answer.

01:26:35.992 --> 01:26:36.693
But if you're wrong,

01:26:36.712 --> 01:26:37.712
then you get fucking charged.

01:26:37.993 --> 01:26:38.474
It's basically,

01:26:38.654 --> 01:26:39.213
it's basically how the

01:26:39.253 --> 01:26:40.015
Texas and the U S were.

01:26:40.774 --> 01:26:42.155
I wish it wasn't so adversarial.

01:26:42.195 --> 01:26:42.775
Cause every time I've

01:26:42.796 --> 01:26:44.237
actually interacted with the IRS,

01:26:44.296 --> 01:26:45.898
they've been like super pleasant,

01:26:45.997 --> 01:26:46.597
very clear.

01:26:46.618 --> 01:26:47.878
They knew what was going on.

01:26:47.899 --> 01:26:49.340
Yeah.

01:26:49.439 --> 01:26:51.400
And yet they just get shit on.

01:26:52.136 --> 01:26:53.256
Like the IRS isn't the one

01:26:53.277 --> 01:26:54.056
that's doing this.

01:26:54.096 --> 01:26:54.738
Come on, guys.

01:26:55.377 --> 01:26:56.019
No, they're doing it.

01:26:56.038 --> 01:26:57.720
What are you talking about?

01:26:57.739 --> 01:26:57.939
Well,

01:26:57.960 --> 01:26:58.739
it's the difference between the

01:26:58.920 --> 01:27:01.561
computer and the thing

01:27:01.601 --> 01:27:02.323
sending out the

01:27:02.363 --> 01:27:03.563
notifications and the

01:27:03.603 --> 01:27:04.963
people you talk to who work there.

01:27:04.984 --> 01:27:06.204
The people you talk to who work there,

01:27:06.404 --> 01:27:08.726
if their job is to talk to people all day,

01:27:08.766 --> 01:27:10.587
they're just like, man,

01:27:10.988 --> 01:27:11.969
I just hope I have a day

01:27:12.009 --> 01:27:12.588
where somebody doesn't

01:27:12.628 --> 01:27:15.230
shout at me and I can go home and enjoy,

01:27:15.251 --> 01:27:18.233
insert name of TV show I'm watching.

01:27:19.900 --> 01:27:21.688
Or robot jocks, if they have any taste,

01:27:22.109 --> 01:27:22.972
when I get home.

01:27:23.375 --> 01:27:23.775
Exactly.

01:27:23.837 --> 01:27:25.020
They're definitely going to do...

01:27:25.793 --> 01:27:27.534
a few occasions where I've

01:27:27.574 --> 01:27:28.755
like gone into a customer

01:27:28.774 --> 01:27:30.315
service call and been like, listen,

01:27:30.836 --> 01:27:31.895
I'm really fired up.

01:27:31.956 --> 01:27:32.556
So there might be some

01:27:32.697 --> 01:27:33.756
F-bombs flying around.

01:27:34.197 --> 01:27:35.438
Know that they're not pointed towards you.

01:27:35.658 --> 01:27:36.818
They're pointed at the situation.

01:27:36.837 --> 01:27:39.238
And then almost universally,

01:27:39.619 --> 01:27:40.819
the rep is like all fired

01:27:40.859 --> 01:27:41.600
up and ready to go.

01:27:41.619 --> 01:27:43.041
They're like, all right, let's do this.

01:27:43.421 --> 01:27:43.640
Yeah.

01:27:43.761 --> 01:27:44.721
Like in a positive way.

01:27:45.261 --> 01:27:45.801
Like, yeah.

01:27:45.942 --> 01:27:47.962
I mean, again, go ahead.

01:27:47.983 --> 01:27:48.222
You're right.

01:27:48.243 --> 01:27:49.002
It's like separating the

01:27:49.042 --> 01:27:50.564
entity from the individual, right?

01:27:50.604 --> 01:27:52.064
Like when you call and bitch

01:27:52.104 --> 01:27:53.145
about something in the

01:27:53.185 --> 01:27:54.244
retail space or whatever else,

01:27:54.284 --> 01:27:55.046
it's not that person.

01:27:55.822 --> 01:27:56.823
It's just the rules

01:27:56.882 --> 01:27:57.682
structure and the

01:27:57.804 --> 01:27:59.545
governance and everything

01:28:00.445 --> 01:28:02.146
else that goes around that.

01:28:02.207 --> 01:28:03.068
It's like the king token.

01:28:06.029 --> 01:28:07.631
You could fucking hate king token,

01:28:07.930 --> 01:28:11.293
but you can't hate null.

01:28:11.413 --> 01:28:12.234
You got to separate the

01:28:12.274 --> 01:28:13.274
individual from the

01:28:13.314 --> 01:28:14.176
situation that's there.

01:28:14.195 --> 01:28:14.837
It's not his fault.

01:28:14.856 --> 01:28:17.578
From the situation.

01:28:17.599 --> 01:28:20.000
I don't think I've never

01:28:20.060 --> 01:28:22.802
interacted with the

01:28:22.863 --> 01:28:24.163
Australian revenue people.

01:28:26.087 --> 01:28:26.307
here,

01:28:26.328 --> 01:28:27.408
I think you just do it all with your

01:28:27.429 --> 01:28:28.509
accountant.

01:28:29.248 --> 01:28:29.929
If you get a problem,

01:28:30.270 --> 01:28:31.710
your accountant rings you up and is like,

01:28:31.729 --> 01:28:32.789
hey, man, we've got a problem.

01:28:33.409 --> 01:28:35.951
Are they in the hook for anything, though?

01:28:36.030 --> 01:28:36.951
If that person fucks up,

01:28:37.212 --> 01:28:37.992
is that on you or on them?

01:28:39.792 --> 01:28:42.512
Well, it depends.

01:28:42.533 --> 01:28:43.573
I had an accountant that

01:28:43.613 --> 01:28:45.594
would not fucking do things

01:28:45.634 --> 01:28:46.413
the way I wanted them

01:28:46.474 --> 01:28:48.154
because they were too scared.

01:28:48.175 --> 01:28:48.595
They're like,

01:28:50.055 --> 01:28:50.876
we don't want to get audited.

01:28:51.475 --> 01:28:51.855
I'm like,

01:28:53.041 --> 01:28:55.641
It's me getting audited, not you.

01:28:56.381 --> 01:28:56.761
And they're like,

01:28:56.801 --> 01:28:57.261
we don't want to be

01:28:57.282 --> 01:28:58.283
associated with an audit.

01:28:59.523 --> 01:29:00.262
Can you go somewhere else?

01:29:03.264 --> 01:29:06.104
So, I mean, I wasn't getting audited.

01:29:06.125 --> 01:29:07.104
That's also what happens

01:29:07.145 --> 01:29:08.145
when you call your company

01:29:08.244 --> 01:29:10.746
Big Balls Blockchain, isn't it?

01:29:10.765 --> 01:29:11.966
Yeah, bigswinganddick.com.