WEBVTT

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mean are you even an adult

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if you only have one cable

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box and not cable boxes

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have you seen have you seen

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that uh there's uh there's

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like this I don't know it's

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a youtube short or

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something like that with a

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guy and his son and and the

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son's like we need this

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piece of two by four it's

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like exactly this size and

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goes like this and the dad

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goes oh and he runs

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downstairs he piles through

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all these fucking boxes and

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pulls out the exact right

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thing he brings it up he's

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like I got it it's my life 100%

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Hello and welcome to the

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Game of Nodes Milan-San Remo recap.

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I'm here with Usurper and

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Schultze and we're going to

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be talking about the

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fastest Milan-San Remo in

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history as well as that finale,

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which I'm sure people have

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a lot of thoughts about why

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Bagaccia and UAE did not go

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on the Cipressa as many had

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suspected they would.

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But first, a word from our sponsor.

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until Paris-Roubaix,

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and you're going to be

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hearing a lot more from them.

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They are obviously working

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in the Pro Peloton very,

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very closely with some of

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your favorite riders to

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make their performance

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How are you fellas doing?

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Thank you, Big Balls, for sponsoring.

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Thank you, Big Balls, as always,

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for sponsoring the podcast.

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Your ability to just kind of

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spat out nonsense that

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actually sounds like

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something that's happening, it's just,

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I can't even fathom it.

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I can't even take,

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I can't bring the words

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together to express my

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appreciation for your

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ability to put words together.

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It's like your wife sitting

00:02:02.078 --> 00:02:02.778
next to you in bed, like,

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I wonder what he's thinking about.

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He's thinking about another woman.

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Big Balls sponsoring.

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but what kind of big balls

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isotonic sports drink would

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sponsor a podcast it's just

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so I live I lived I live

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for a long time with

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several people that I even

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much better than than me it

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just off the cuff coming up

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with fake stuff that sounds

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plausible um so like I

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think people entering that

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environment and I've I've

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heard this from like

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partners who uh I guess

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everybody's old now so

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everybody's been together

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like 15 years but at the

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time people were like do

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when does any of this

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actually mean anything does this

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does it reference are you

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all referencing a film or

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something oh it's like no

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no no it's just it's just

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just nonsense it's kind of

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I mean if you've seen the

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simpsons it's kind of you

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know maybe some more of it

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will make sense if you've

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seen x or y or z but it's

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it's all just all just

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garbage isn't it it's just

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it's just noise anyway how

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are you fellas doing like legit like

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legit what's happening I'm

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feeling old serp service

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where you I drink white

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wine like what the hell is

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your little subtitle

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there's a little bit of a

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cry for help that's what I

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was like I've been bouncing

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through lyrics and all this

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stuff I was like I'm not

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gonna do that tonight I

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just yeah just wouldn't

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even do it up ah okay yeah

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fair enough I was just like

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we're just chasing issues

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like we're just chasing

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issues all day it was just

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an exhausting day and stuff

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I didn't even want to do like we were

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say upgrade had a bunch of issues for me,

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but not anybody else,

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which is always awesome.

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That's always amazing.

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No, it was, it was an,

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it was an actual blossom issue, but,

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but I think it was

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something that affected us

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a little bit more for some reason.

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and uh it was like that

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happened and like

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everything just went to

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shit because it was it was

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a well now we want to get

00:03:59.723 --> 00:04:00.746
into it but it was a wasm

00:04:00.786 --> 00:04:01.667
issue that looks like it

00:04:01.706 --> 00:04:03.209
was identified it took some

00:04:03.229 --> 00:04:03.729
while to figure out what

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was going on but what was

00:04:04.971 --> 00:04:08.716
happening that um that they have uh

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it was like a wasm vm

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version that when you got a

00:04:13.079 --> 00:04:14.038
bunch of contract calls

00:04:14.079 --> 00:04:14.859
like it wouldn't release

00:04:14.878 --> 00:04:15.639
some sort of memory thing

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and so all my sad nodes

00:04:17.300 --> 00:04:18.240
were going from like

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basically a gig of ram up

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to 128 gigs of ram running

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in process and then it

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would all oom and the

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machine would the bed

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and it would have a huge

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problem in terms of it take

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forever for it to actually

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clear out that memory for

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some reason and then

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finally come back like 10

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minutes later and the thing

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would hold happen again

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like would but the whole

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thing would like that whole

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process was like 30 minutes

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so like the node you could

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actually watch the

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percentage increase in

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terms of ram go up like one

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percent every 30 seconds

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and it would just sit there

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and just continue to go on

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so so really fully shitting

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the bed not like fully

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shitting like not not in

00:04:48.975 --> 00:04:50.035
all nodes but on like a

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couple that I had um

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here in the US,

00:04:53.197 --> 00:04:55.098
like they were so bad that like,

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like it would block me out of SSH.

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I couldn't even get into it

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through like a terminal.

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And then IPMI wasn't

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responding in terms of

00:05:02.185 --> 00:05:03.245
being able to force reboot it.

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So I actually,

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I think somebody literally

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had to go there and hit a

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button on a couple notes.

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That's how bad it was,

00:05:07.589 --> 00:05:08.629
which I've never really had

00:05:08.649 --> 00:05:09.310
that issue before.

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Like even, or IPMI was being a bitch.

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So, um, once before in like, you know,

00:05:17.016 --> 00:05:17.798
when I'm like, oh,

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there's a reason I stopped

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doing bare metal, um,

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and went to cloud stuff like

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at the job where that

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happened where we it was

00:05:25.547 --> 00:05:26.987
literally similar situation

00:05:27.007 --> 00:05:27.930
the thing didn't respond

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it's like let's try all the

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different ways of making

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the server respond and um

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In the end, I think it was Hesner.

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They literally sent the bloke.

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They sent the bloke with the key card,

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because this was a long time ago.

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Ivo hit the button.

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And like,

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Ivo hits the button and got to the thing.

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It's just like, unfortunately,

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your server is making a big smoke.

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Make a big smoke, big red,

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lots of red lights.

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That's not really a Hesner accent.

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That's more of a... I was

00:05:59.509 --> 00:06:01.050
trying to go for Finland,

00:06:01.091 --> 00:06:01.872
and I realized I have

00:06:01.891 --> 00:06:03.213
literally no fucking idea.

00:06:03.769 --> 00:06:05.951
It would be Scandinavian, I would get.

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But then Finland is so far north.

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Is it that Scandian accent?

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I don't know.

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I'm going to look it up

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after this podcast.

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Is any Finnish people...

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watching.

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We love your data centers.

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They're great.

00:06:22.151 --> 00:06:24.774
But yeah, the box was toast.

00:06:24.834 --> 00:06:26.576
That was the actual thing.

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Starting that motherfucker

00:06:28.517 --> 00:06:29.639
was going to bring it back to life.

00:06:31.339 --> 00:06:32.961
Yeah, so anyway, they sent some dude,

00:06:32.982 --> 00:06:35.043
or it could be anybody.

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It could be a dude.

00:06:36.165 --> 00:06:37.925
And yeah, so anyway,

00:06:37.966 --> 00:06:39.226
so then it turned out they

00:06:39.326 --> 00:06:41.608
were doing a bunch of stuff with tracing,

00:06:41.649 --> 00:06:42.449
or not tracing,

00:06:42.468 --> 00:06:43.329
but profiling and trying to

00:06:43.350 --> 00:06:43.990
see what was going on.

00:06:44.149 --> 00:06:45.350
Profiler wasn't really showing anything.

00:06:45.951 --> 00:06:47.052
And then I was just looking at,

00:06:47.072 --> 00:06:48.093
I think we determined it

00:06:48.112 --> 00:06:48.872
was contract-based.

00:06:48.913 --> 00:06:49.874
Like it was clearly

00:06:49.913 --> 00:06:50.634
something based on number

00:06:50.653 --> 00:06:52.115
of calls because other

00:06:52.154 --> 00:06:53.375
validator nodes did not have the issue.

00:06:53.396 --> 00:06:54.416
It was only when we were getting calls,

00:06:54.456 --> 00:06:55.437
which made me thought it was...

00:06:56.298 --> 00:06:57.418
something related to um

00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:00.021
contract calls and then and

00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:00.701
then we started looking at

00:07:00.721 --> 00:07:02.682
the you know wasn't vm type

00:07:03.302 --> 00:07:04.242
um and realized that there

00:07:04.283 --> 00:07:06.225
was a huge issue that was

00:07:06.524 --> 00:07:07.846
that was solved in the

00:07:08.125 --> 00:07:09.367
point point version after

00:07:09.387 --> 00:07:09.987
the one that they were

00:07:10.067 --> 00:07:11.947
using and so they quickly

00:07:12.088 --> 00:07:13.309
created a little wasn't

00:07:13.329 --> 00:07:14.329
non-breaking it's just a

00:07:14.449 --> 00:07:15.571
hot fix and so we pushed

00:07:15.591 --> 00:07:16.752
that out and totally solved

00:07:17.817 --> 00:07:18.898
And then it took me another

00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:19.860
two hours to actually get

00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:20.639
the other nodes that were

00:07:20.860 --> 00:07:22.942
so completely fucked to

00:07:23.023 --> 00:07:23.723
unfuck themselves.

00:07:24.564 --> 00:07:25.786
And then there we are.

00:07:25.966 --> 00:07:26.367
Now we're back.

00:07:26.627 --> 00:07:30.290
Now we have 13 nodes rocking and rolling.

00:07:30.411 --> 00:07:31.271
Actually, we have another.

00:07:31.533 --> 00:07:33.014
Now you're ready to start the day.

00:07:33.694 --> 00:07:34.475
We're ready to start the day.

00:07:34.495 --> 00:07:36.338
Ready to start the day.

00:07:36.358 --> 00:07:37.358
Ready to do something.

00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:37.839
Yeah.

00:07:38.341 --> 00:07:39.161
We did have a node,

00:07:39.341 --> 00:07:40.742
a say node go down as well.

00:07:40.963 --> 00:07:41.903
And what was nice about it

00:07:41.942 --> 00:07:42.983
was it did the same thing you did.

00:07:43.343 --> 00:07:43.644
However,

00:07:43.684 --> 00:07:45.425
apparently we had a kernel update queued.

00:07:45.944 --> 00:07:47.725
And so when it shut down,

00:07:47.846 --> 00:07:48.665
it then went to the kernel

00:07:48.745 --> 00:07:50.766
update and that worked.

00:07:51.086 --> 00:07:52.648
And so then James had to go

00:07:52.728 --> 00:07:54.228
in and actually roll back the kernel.

00:07:54.249 --> 00:07:54.848
Like multiple things?

00:07:55.528 --> 00:07:56.569
Yeah.

00:07:56.769 --> 00:07:58.149
Like fucking problem layered

00:07:58.209 --> 00:07:58.949
on top of problems.

00:07:59.490 --> 00:07:59.670
Yeah.

00:07:59.870 --> 00:08:00.750
That sounds about right too.

00:08:00.951 --> 00:08:01.170
Yeah.

00:08:01.992 --> 00:08:03.172
OVHcloud was like, yeah,

00:08:03.192 --> 00:08:04.312
this sounds like a you issue.

00:08:04.333 --> 00:08:06.494
And I was like, probably isn't the issue,

00:08:06.553 --> 00:08:06.814
isn't it?

00:08:07.754 --> 00:08:09.754
Well, when the first node did it, like,

00:08:09.875 --> 00:08:10.675
after the upgrade,

00:08:10.956 --> 00:08:12.076
everything else looked fine, actually.

00:08:12.096 --> 00:08:12.877
It wasn't, like, that bad.

00:08:12.896 --> 00:08:13.456
And then there was, like,

00:08:13.637 --> 00:08:14.697
one node in the U.S.

00:08:14.737 --> 00:08:15.577
was not responding.

00:08:15.617 --> 00:08:16.317
It was really weird.

00:08:16.398 --> 00:08:17.699
But it was pinging, but, like,

00:08:17.718 --> 00:08:18.540
you couldn't get SSH.

00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:19.519
Everything was, like, kind of screwed up.

00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:20.740
And it kind of had that

00:08:20.821 --> 00:08:22.261
smelling of... It had that smell of, like,

00:08:22.300 --> 00:08:22.882
bad hardware.

00:08:22.901 --> 00:08:24.622
Like, a drive died or something like that.

00:08:24.642 --> 00:08:25.442
So that was my first thing.

00:08:25.483 --> 00:08:25.742
It was, like,

00:08:25.762 --> 00:08:26.382
I think this thing might

00:08:26.403 --> 00:08:28.824
have... It could be a drive or maybe just,

00:08:28.964 --> 00:08:29.485
like, screwed up.

00:08:29.524 --> 00:08:31.286
And then everything else started failing.

00:08:31.326 --> 00:08:33.086
Like, fucking Zabbix.

00:08:33.886 --> 00:08:35.148
Like, I almost turned off all alerts.

00:08:35.248 --> 00:08:35.368
I was,

00:08:35.388 --> 00:08:36.688
like... Because you get... At some

00:08:36.749 --> 00:08:36.948
point...

00:08:37.998 --> 00:08:38.357
Like when,

00:08:38.457 --> 00:08:40.178
when you get like 75 Xanax

00:08:40.219 --> 00:08:40.879
alerts on a row,

00:08:40.958 --> 00:08:42.339
like you started to get decentralized,

00:08:42.359 --> 00:08:42.558
he's like,

00:08:42.578 --> 00:08:43.359
I'm gonna stand up and walk

00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:46.059
away from this word.

00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:47.100
How do I trace this back to

00:08:47.139 --> 00:08:47.799
what the issue is?

00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:48.799
So,

00:08:48.961 --> 00:08:50.321
but somehow like there was always like

00:08:50.341 --> 00:08:50.520
what,

00:08:50.541 --> 00:08:51.701
at least one or two nodes that are up.

00:08:51.721 --> 00:08:52.640
So I don't think we even had

00:08:52.701 --> 00:08:54.221
any outages during that process.

00:08:54.282 --> 00:08:56.741
It was just, it was just a bunch of, uh,

00:08:56.841 --> 00:08:58.302
you know, it's just, it's just painful.

00:08:58.322 --> 00:08:59.403
Cause it's not, you just,

00:08:59.523 --> 00:09:00.423
everything else has to stop.

00:09:00.462 --> 00:09:00.582
Right.

00:09:00.602 --> 00:09:01.082
You're just kind of,

00:09:01.942 --> 00:09:02.604
you're a hundred percent of

00:09:02.624 --> 00:09:04.083
your attention is devoted to this thing.

00:09:04.950 --> 00:09:05.649
And you really can't do

00:09:05.690 --> 00:09:06.350
anything else until that

00:09:06.370 --> 00:09:07.030
thing is resolved.

00:09:07.071 --> 00:09:09.272
And that can be sometimes

00:09:09.672 --> 00:09:11.212
pretty frustrating because

00:09:11.232 --> 00:09:11.812
everything else is like

00:09:11.852 --> 00:09:13.094
sitting on the side type of idea.

00:09:14.193 --> 00:09:15.014
So does that mean that's

00:09:15.034 --> 00:09:16.235
what you were doing while I

00:09:16.274 --> 00:09:17.796
was messaging you about drop share?

00:09:18.596 --> 00:09:18.796
Yeah.

00:09:19.216 --> 00:09:19.355
Yeah.

00:09:19.836 --> 00:09:22.077
Well, it was a nice diversion.

00:09:22.097 --> 00:09:23.477
It was a nice diversion, though.

00:09:23.957 --> 00:09:24.119
Yeah.

00:09:24.139 --> 00:09:24.899
I was like, here, do this.

00:09:26.152 --> 00:09:28.232
yeah drop share is a little

00:09:28.573 --> 00:09:30.075
mac os tool that allows you

00:09:30.174 --> 00:09:31.676
to take screenshots and

00:09:31.716 --> 00:09:32.517
then upload them to

00:09:32.537 --> 00:09:33.657
different locations so I've

00:09:33.697 --> 00:09:34.378
used something like this

00:09:34.717 --> 00:09:35.278
there's been a couple of

00:09:35.298 --> 00:09:35.958
these but it usually is

00:09:35.979 --> 00:09:36.960
like for like 10 or 15

00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.500
years and um and this one

00:09:39.542 --> 00:09:40.381
is actually drop share is

00:09:40.442 --> 00:09:41.462
quite good I'll put a link

00:09:41.482 --> 00:09:42.182
in the show notes for it

00:09:42.583 --> 00:09:43.825
but if you're on mac os it

00:09:43.904 --> 00:09:44.504
allows you to create a

00:09:44.524 --> 00:09:45.405
little key combo and then

00:09:45.426 --> 00:09:46.326
you then you basically take

00:09:46.346 --> 00:09:47.126
a little screenshot you can

00:09:47.167 --> 00:09:48.187
do like a window screenshot

00:09:48.207 --> 00:09:49.148
with a little drop shadow

00:09:49.207 --> 00:09:49.849
or you can even do little

00:09:49.889 --> 00:09:51.330
pre screenshots where it puts like a

00:09:51.769 --> 00:09:52.630
puts a background behind it

00:09:52.650 --> 00:09:53.172
and all this type shit.

00:09:53.652 --> 00:09:54.352
And then you can upload

00:09:54.393 --> 00:09:56.375
those to like a SFTP server

00:09:56.394 --> 00:09:58.596
or to S3 or a Minio server

00:09:58.616 --> 00:09:59.317
or like anything,

00:09:59.398 --> 00:10:00.418
like really you can put it anywhere.

00:10:01.019 --> 00:10:02.360
And then it gives you, then once you,

00:10:02.541 --> 00:10:03.261
once you put that screenshot up,

00:10:03.302 --> 00:10:04.923
it puts a link in like in your clipboard.

00:10:05.543 --> 00:10:07.245
And so that's been,

00:10:07.365 --> 00:10:08.027
it's like really handy.

00:10:08.047 --> 00:10:08.648
Cause you just want to take

00:10:08.668 --> 00:10:09.307
a quick screenshot of

00:10:09.327 --> 00:10:10.408
something and then dump it somewhere.

00:10:10.448 --> 00:10:12.010
Then it uses mnemonics in the name,

00:10:12.051 --> 00:10:12.692
which is really nice.

00:10:13.272 --> 00:10:14.374
because you can use a GUID

00:10:14.394 --> 00:10:15.796
or a mnemonic or something else.

00:10:16.297 --> 00:10:17.759
So you can't go and discover them,

00:10:17.778 --> 00:10:18.440
because sometimes you might

00:10:18.460 --> 00:10:20.022
have some sensitive information there,

00:10:20.042 --> 00:10:21.625
although I try to not do that.

00:10:21.725 --> 00:10:24.428
I did wonder why whenever the...

00:10:26.567 --> 00:10:27.326
Yeah,

00:10:27.467 --> 00:10:29.408
whenever you shitpost memes on any

00:10:29.469 --> 00:10:29.948
channel,

00:10:29.969 --> 00:10:33.051
it does that thing on a mobile

00:10:33.071 --> 00:10:34.091
device where it shows you

00:10:34.111 --> 00:10:36.893
the file name just before it loads.

00:10:36.913 --> 00:10:38.714
It always says, like, Usurper is typing,

00:10:38.734 --> 00:10:40.274
and then it says something like,

00:10:40.836 --> 00:10:44.837
accidentally houseplant Rottweiler.

00:10:45.057 --> 00:10:46.178
That's exactly what it is, yeah.

00:10:46.359 --> 00:10:46.658
I'm like,

00:10:46.698 --> 00:10:49.600
has he finally had a nervous breakdown?

00:10:49.801 --> 00:10:51.562
I was hand-crafting those.

00:10:52.042 --> 00:10:53.643
Yeah, an image of the Simpsons appears.

00:10:53.702 --> 00:10:54.083
Housefly.

00:10:54.104 --> 00:10:54.244
Yeah.

00:10:56.544 --> 00:10:57.445
Yeah, no, it's cool.

00:10:57.544 --> 00:10:58.265
And then, then you can,

00:10:58.346 --> 00:10:59.846
then that link can be anywhere and it's,

00:11:00.067 --> 00:11:01.006
it's nice because you can,

00:11:01.886 --> 00:11:02.327
it's nice that it's

00:11:02.368 --> 00:11:03.768
non-discoverable and you, you know,

00:11:03.788 --> 00:11:04.187
there's something

00:11:04.227 --> 00:11:05.208
associated to that where you can,

00:11:05.729 --> 00:11:07.210
it's only four mnemonics, but, but still,

00:11:07.350 --> 00:11:08.649
or five or something like that, but like,

00:11:08.669 --> 00:11:09.270
you're not going to figure

00:11:09.291 --> 00:11:09.750
those things out.

00:11:10.643 --> 00:11:10.783
Well,

00:11:10.822 --> 00:11:12.464
Dropship now has an AI thing where

00:11:12.543 --> 00:11:13.663
it'll analyze the

00:11:13.764 --> 00:11:15.365
screenshot and give you...

00:11:15.384 --> 00:11:16.845
That sounds like the worst idea ever,

00:11:16.905 --> 00:11:17.105
right?

00:11:17.426 --> 00:11:18.046
I know.

00:11:18.426 --> 00:11:20.346
It's like... How about a pay

00:11:20.667 --> 00:11:22.927
number dash 421 to not

00:11:23.028 --> 00:11:25.129
fucking analyze anything on

00:11:25.168 --> 00:11:26.629
your bullshit-ass service?

00:11:27.289 --> 00:11:28.730
Don't collect any data.

00:11:29.149 --> 00:11:30.350
Don't store that data.

00:11:30.390 --> 00:11:31.410
Certainly do not fucking

00:11:31.431 --> 00:11:32.552
store that data on your

00:11:32.611 --> 00:11:34.412
broken-ass Postgres server

00:11:34.432 --> 00:11:35.692
with bad security.

00:11:35.753 --> 00:11:36.033
I don't know.

00:11:36.133 --> 00:11:37.354
I mean, I saw that functionality.

00:11:37.374 --> 00:11:37.874
I'm like, I can't...

00:11:38.254 --> 00:11:39.833
I don't know why somebody would use that.

00:11:39.994 --> 00:11:40.615
I don't know where you would

00:11:40.634 --> 00:11:41.815
take screenshots of that

00:11:41.835 --> 00:11:43.654
you want the description of

00:11:43.715 --> 00:11:44.836
the item in the name.

00:11:44.916 --> 00:11:45.956
I guess maybe I don't know.

00:11:45.975 --> 00:11:47.096
Maybe if you just really

00:11:47.135 --> 00:11:47.775
want to get owned.

00:11:48.777 --> 00:11:49.596
Oh, now I'm curious.

00:11:49.657 --> 00:11:50.236
I'm going to I'm going to

00:11:50.256 --> 00:11:52.077
turn it on the AI and then

00:11:52.118 --> 00:11:54.077
I'm going to screenshot our

00:11:55.018 --> 00:11:55.918
our image here with all

00:11:55.938 --> 00:11:57.019
previous in it and see what it says.

00:11:59.225 --> 00:12:01.006
It's going to say three tired guys,

00:12:01.327 --> 00:12:04.109
aging man, plus three angry men,

00:12:05.289 --> 00:12:06.691
three massive nerds,

00:12:07.711 --> 00:12:08.572
three massive nerds with

00:12:08.633 --> 00:12:11.014
mid mid tier headsets, uh,

00:12:11.073 --> 00:12:12.475
is what I was going to say.

00:12:13.576 --> 00:12:13.816
I'm sorry.

00:12:13.875 --> 00:12:16.538
Two, two massive nerds with mid tier, uh,

00:12:16.618 --> 00:12:17.879
headsets and one massive

00:12:17.938 --> 00:12:21.142
nerd with unnecessarily good headset.

00:12:21.422 --> 00:12:21.961
I think that's you.

00:12:21.981 --> 00:12:22.903
Um,

00:12:23.751 --> 00:12:24.552
Yeah, I don't know.

00:12:24.633 --> 00:12:25.673
I assume this is a better one.

00:12:25.692 --> 00:12:27.553
You need an open AI key in order to do it.

00:12:27.653 --> 00:12:29.014
So I'm not that committed.

00:12:29.355 --> 00:12:30.275
It's V4 too, right?

00:12:30.316 --> 00:12:30.515
Isn't it?

00:12:30.535 --> 00:12:33.157
I think it's open AI V4.

00:12:33.857 --> 00:12:34.418
I think so.

00:12:34.538 --> 00:12:34.817
Yeah.

00:12:34.878 --> 00:12:36.139
So I'm definitely not that committed.

00:12:38.232 --> 00:12:39.413
It sounds like a lot of hassle.

00:12:39.833 --> 00:12:40.934
It does.

00:12:41.215 --> 00:12:41.595
It does.

00:12:41.615 --> 00:12:44.076
But anyway, it's good to be here.

00:12:44.777 --> 00:12:45.777
It's good to be at Game of Nodes.

00:12:46.158 --> 00:12:47.899
It's good to be at Game of Nodes.

00:12:48.158 --> 00:12:48.479
It is.

00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:49.600
It is.

00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:50.419
We have no news.

00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:51.620
We have no guests.

00:12:52.201 --> 00:12:52.801
We do have some news.

00:12:52.821 --> 00:12:53.601
We can talk about whatever

00:12:53.621 --> 00:12:54.182
the hell we want.

00:12:54.241 --> 00:12:54.903
Oh, we do have some news.

00:12:55.263 --> 00:12:56.604
We do have some news.

00:12:56.783 --> 00:12:57.024
I mean,

00:12:57.043 --> 00:12:58.784
I think we need to give you a break

00:12:58.825 --> 00:13:01.166
from guests, Usurper.

00:13:01.186 --> 00:13:01.865
A gift to you.

00:13:02.447 --> 00:13:02.626
After...

00:13:03.027 --> 00:13:04.106
we only had one in six weeks

00:13:04.168 --> 00:13:05.707
or something so yeah we

00:13:05.748 --> 00:13:06.748
have one a month and every

00:13:06.768 --> 00:13:09.889
time it gives you ptsd or

00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:11.169
especially sometimes it

00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:15.011
gives you ptsd um yeah I so

00:13:15.052 --> 00:13:17.633
I mean I've um I'm I'm just

00:13:17.653 --> 00:13:18.592
fucking stoked today

00:13:18.812 --> 00:13:22.494
because uh uh yeah there's

00:13:22.514 --> 00:13:23.414
just been I've just had a

00:13:23.455 --> 00:13:24.134
day where there's been

00:13:25.427 --> 00:13:28.528
uh no teething no illness no

00:13:28.548 --> 00:13:29.750
whatever I just had like

00:13:29.809 --> 00:13:31.270
quite happy just a good

00:13:31.311 --> 00:13:33.451
baby day yes a happy small

00:13:33.491 --> 00:13:34.753
human who's kind of at the

00:13:34.893 --> 00:13:36.134
edge of toddling so sort of

00:13:36.173 --> 00:13:37.634
just crawling around the

00:13:37.654 --> 00:13:38.816
house like following you

00:13:39.316 --> 00:13:40.136
and every time you turn

00:13:40.177 --> 00:13:41.538
around and pull a face that

00:13:41.618 --> 00:13:43.239
just you are the funniest

00:13:43.318 --> 00:13:44.460
person in the universe

00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.000
they're just like tackling

00:13:46.061 --> 00:13:47.360
like a little comedy witch

00:13:47.562 --> 00:13:47.942
and you're like

00:13:48.481 --> 00:13:49.363
this is great why doesn't

00:13:49.383 --> 00:13:50.503
everybody have children you

00:13:50.523 --> 00:13:51.884
remember like the broken

00:13:51.943 --> 00:13:52.804
night all of this that

00:13:52.825 --> 00:13:54.046
you're like you're like

00:13:54.586 --> 00:13:55.366
this is what this is what

00:13:55.386 --> 00:13:56.126
people mean when they say

00:13:56.187 --> 00:13:57.707
cherish the moment so isn't

00:13:57.788 --> 00:14:00.129
it that's it yeah yeah so

00:14:00.169 --> 00:14:01.671
that was pretty good and uh

00:14:01.791 --> 00:14:03.052
you know perhaps a stress

00:14:03.111 --> 00:14:04.352
that's come to an end um

00:14:04.373 --> 00:14:05.953
obviously we don't we don't

00:14:05.974 --> 00:14:06.894
know so much about like

00:14:06.994 --> 00:14:08.635
what was it seemed like the

00:14:08.696 --> 00:14:11.236
networking stuff did not no

00:14:11.277 --> 00:14:13.038
bueno so it would be

00:14:13.058 --> 00:14:13.798
interesting to see the

00:14:13.839 --> 00:14:15.340
write-up when they do it of

00:14:15.460 --> 00:14:16.240
what kind of is going to

00:14:16.280 --> 00:14:17.662
come out of that but um

00:14:18.601 --> 00:14:20.264
yeah I i thought I was I was

00:14:20.283 --> 00:14:21.865
a hundred percent assured

00:14:21.884 --> 00:14:23.066
that or thought that that

00:14:23.265 --> 00:14:24.246
that thing was extended

00:14:24.346 --> 00:14:25.687
because it just seemed like

00:14:26.288 --> 00:14:27.009
like there was some

00:14:27.068 --> 00:14:28.289
positive like we had a we

00:14:28.309 --> 00:14:29.291
had a what we had a halt

00:14:29.311 --> 00:14:29.991
for what it was must have

00:14:30.011 --> 00:14:30.831
been like two or three days

00:14:31.113 --> 00:14:32.514
out of the two weeks right

00:14:32.693 --> 00:14:34.075
it's nearly 72 hours there

00:14:34.115 --> 00:14:35.436
was a halt for because of

00:14:35.456 --> 00:14:36.897
the networking thing so uh

00:14:37.717 --> 00:14:38.678
yeah I mean I was to say I

00:14:38.739 --> 00:14:40.639
thought uh we cut it quite

00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:41.780
fine to the beginning um

00:14:42.761 --> 00:14:44.264
to see if we could only pay

00:14:44.303 --> 00:14:45.225
for a month of high

00:14:45.265 --> 00:14:46.488
performance servers and of

00:14:46.528 --> 00:14:48.169
course it ended like two

00:14:48.210 --> 00:14:49.871
days after when all the

00:14:49.912 --> 00:14:51.073
servers got renewed and we

00:14:51.114 --> 00:14:51.835
had to pay for them for

00:14:51.875 --> 00:14:53.857
another month so uh yeah

00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:56.322
maybe maybe you just need

00:14:56.341 --> 00:14:57.823
to run those things and just and just

00:14:59.072 --> 00:15:00.114
put it on a yearly lease and

00:15:00.153 --> 00:15:00.914
just forget about it.

00:15:00.995 --> 00:15:01.976
I don't know.

00:15:02.017 --> 00:15:02.417
Yeah.

00:15:03.479 --> 00:15:04.779
But I, I just canceled them all.

00:15:06.101 --> 00:15:06.942
It felt so good.

00:15:06.982 --> 00:15:08.065
I've been canceling so many things.

00:15:08.085 --> 00:15:09.547
It does feel good to cancel service.

00:15:09.606 --> 00:15:09.706
Oh,

00:15:10.047 --> 00:15:11.629
like when you hit that cancel button

00:15:11.649 --> 00:15:11.990
and you're like,

00:15:13.331 --> 00:15:14.373
it feels so fucking good.

00:15:14.812 --> 00:15:15.114
It does.

00:15:15.193 --> 00:15:15.855
It really feels good.

00:15:17.432 --> 00:15:18.953
We finished moving offices as well,

00:15:19.033 --> 00:15:19.315
actually.

00:15:19.355 --> 00:15:19.914
That's the other thing.

00:15:20.475 --> 00:15:22.376
We finished moving offices as well.

00:15:22.417 --> 00:15:23.937
I think I sent you fellas a

00:15:23.957 --> 00:15:26.259
picture of the... I think I

00:15:26.278 --> 00:15:27.159
sent you a picture of just

00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:29.282
I was the keenest and got there,

00:15:29.381 --> 00:15:30.081
sat at my desk,

00:15:30.142 --> 00:15:30.982
and then didn't fucking

00:15:31.023 --> 00:15:31.903
help anybody else.

00:15:31.942 --> 00:15:33.224
I just set my desk up,

00:15:33.323 --> 00:15:34.764
plugged in the power strip, and was like,

00:15:35.306 --> 00:15:36.647
see you fellas next week.

00:15:37.707 --> 00:15:39.948
It's like a completely empty room.

00:15:39.989 --> 00:15:40.690
I'm like, I'm out.

00:15:40.730 --> 00:15:41.909
I've got actual work to do,

00:15:41.990 --> 00:15:43.370
and this looks like a building site,

00:15:43.432 --> 00:15:44.371
so I'm going to go

00:15:44.491 --> 00:15:45.613
somewhere else and do that work.

00:15:47.471 --> 00:15:50.453
But yeah, like, yeah, it's been a good,

00:15:50.474 --> 00:15:51.514
it's been a good, it's been all right.

00:15:51.695 --> 00:15:52.695
We moved offices.

00:15:52.715 --> 00:15:55.356
I handed in a first draft of my paper.

00:15:55.376 --> 00:15:56.778
So you fellas.

00:15:56.817 --> 00:15:57.197
You did?

00:15:57.977 --> 00:15:58.519
Yeah.

00:15:58.558 --> 00:15:58.798
Really?

00:15:59.259 --> 00:15:59.479
Yeah.

00:15:59.499 --> 00:16:00.179
So you fellas,

00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:01.679
I probably need to put you

00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:03.020
in the acknowledgements or some shit.

00:16:03.081 --> 00:16:03.341
Like,

00:16:04.481 --> 00:16:06.763
this paper could not have happened

00:16:06.984 --> 00:16:11.605
without the emotional support of Schultz.

00:16:11.625 --> 00:16:12.706
No other explanation.

00:16:12.726 --> 00:16:15.729
This is, which one is this one about?

00:16:17.436 --> 00:16:20.980
So it's a paper basically

00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.663
about how anybody who works

00:16:24.705 --> 00:16:26.005
in the space knows that

00:16:26.245 --> 00:16:28.089
ledgers are just fancy

00:16:28.109 --> 00:16:29.690
databases and they're not immutable.

00:16:31.552 --> 00:16:32.394
People have been saying this

00:16:34.494 --> 00:16:35.554
for a very long time.

00:16:35.615 --> 00:16:37.035
You can dredge up Vitalik

00:16:37.115 --> 00:16:38.496
articles from early

00:16:38.517 --> 00:16:39.597
Ethereum days that go on

00:16:39.618 --> 00:16:43.720
and on about all finality

00:16:43.780 --> 00:16:46.042
is probabilistic and stuff like that.

00:16:46.121 --> 00:16:47.283
His big quote.

00:16:49.163 --> 00:16:50.504
And it's basically a

00:16:50.725 --> 00:16:52.667
demonstration that there's

00:16:53.366 --> 00:16:55.408
game theoretic work that

00:16:55.448 --> 00:16:56.589
was done before

00:16:56.668 --> 00:16:57.570
cryptocurrencies were even

00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:00.312
a thing that demonstrates a

00:17:00.392 --> 00:17:02.493
number of different risk factors for when

00:17:03.717 --> 00:17:04.858
actors in a system would be

00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:09.103
incentivized to change balances, to steal,

00:17:09.202 --> 00:17:10.223
to do things like that.

00:17:11.605 --> 00:17:12.685
And so it sort of applies

00:17:12.726 --> 00:17:14.547
some of that logic to a

00:17:14.887 --> 00:17:17.029
ledger and says... And just

00:17:17.069 --> 00:17:18.490
sort of like war games, like, okay,

00:17:18.530 --> 00:17:20.132
here's a bunch of scenarios where...

00:17:21.272 --> 00:17:22.513
an address constitutes an

00:17:22.574 --> 00:17:23.815
identity and identity

00:17:23.855 --> 00:17:26.518
constitutes a threat, a threat, you know,

00:17:26.538 --> 00:17:27.377
cybersecurity threat.

00:17:28.578 --> 00:17:29.500
Are there any examples where

00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:30.181
these things have been

00:17:30.681 --> 00:17:33.182
exploited and kind of like

00:17:33.303 --> 00:17:34.163
takes that sort of thread

00:17:34.223 --> 00:17:35.164
and then offers some

00:17:37.084 --> 00:17:39.105
some systemic solutions that

00:17:39.404 --> 00:17:42.805
make use economic

00:17:42.845 --> 00:17:44.685
incentives to make that not

00:17:44.746 --> 00:17:48.606
worth doing basically so

00:17:48.666 --> 00:17:51.126
like maybe a good example

00:17:51.146 --> 00:17:51.666
would be something like

00:17:51.707 --> 00:17:54.048
secret where like for all

00:17:54.067 --> 00:17:55.468
the flaws in secret like

00:17:55.548 --> 00:17:56.367
the fact that it is a

00:17:56.729 --> 00:17:58.189
privacy first network means that

00:17:58.888 --> 00:18:00.730
you either targeting an

00:18:00.769 --> 00:18:03.711
individual or um targeting

00:18:03.830 --> 00:18:04.730
certain parts of the

00:18:04.770 --> 00:18:06.711
network very very hard to

00:18:07.031 --> 00:18:09.112
actually uh work out ahead

00:18:09.132 --> 00:18:10.252
of time what your expected

00:18:10.292 --> 00:18:12.432
gain would be from actually

00:18:12.452 --> 00:18:13.673
trying to exploit something

00:18:13.693 --> 00:18:14.413
which would be a very

00:18:14.473 --> 00:18:17.295
non-trivial you know effort and

00:18:18.191 --> 00:18:19.432
When you try and attack

00:18:19.471 --> 00:18:22.115
something where it's sort

00:18:22.154 --> 00:18:23.576
of privacy by design,

00:18:24.336 --> 00:18:25.438
especially something where

00:18:25.458 --> 00:18:26.959
it has a similar export mechanism,

00:18:26.979 --> 00:18:30.863
something like Cosmos Chain, you just go,

00:18:30.883 --> 00:18:31.604
okay, well,

00:18:31.644 --> 00:18:32.845
they've just fucked the state

00:18:32.865 --> 00:18:33.325
of the ledger.

00:18:33.365 --> 00:18:34.105
It's exactly the same as a

00:18:34.145 --> 00:18:35.527
hard fork upgrade.

00:18:35.567 --> 00:18:36.428
You'd just be like, well, okay,

00:18:36.448 --> 00:18:37.769
we're just going to restart the ledger.

00:18:37.990 --> 00:18:39.411
Kind of like Juno did after

00:18:39.451 --> 00:18:40.152
its cyber attack.

00:18:40.172 --> 00:18:41.093
Yeah.

00:18:42.724 --> 00:18:43.705
but I mean but actually to

00:18:43.726 --> 00:18:44.846
be fair even that is an

00:18:44.885 --> 00:18:45.787
interesting example of

00:18:45.826 --> 00:18:47.607
where everybody's like okay

00:18:47.627 --> 00:18:48.688
this isn't this is not

00:18:48.728 --> 00:18:50.229
byzantine we've all agreed

00:18:50.249 --> 00:18:52.069
this is not byzantine but

00:18:52.089 --> 00:18:53.810
we are also going to the

00:18:53.830 --> 00:18:54.671
ledger is stopped we're

00:18:54.691 --> 00:18:55.592
going to skip a block and

00:18:55.612 --> 00:18:56.211
we're going to start it

00:18:56.271 --> 00:18:58.492
again um that is a

00:18:58.512 --> 00:18:59.413
byzantine fault like

00:18:59.453 --> 00:19:00.574
classic definition of one

00:19:01.054 --> 00:19:02.315
classic break of actual

00:19:02.355 --> 00:19:03.576
immutability break in

00:19:03.615 --> 00:19:06.076
history full disjoint um

00:19:06.957 --> 00:19:08.258
and and again what's

00:19:08.298 --> 00:19:09.459
interesting is actually from a

00:19:10.358 --> 00:19:12.079
from an academic standpoint

00:19:12.099 --> 00:19:14.321
there is purely technically

00:19:14.382 --> 00:19:15.663
that is a byzantine fault

00:19:15.682 --> 00:19:17.084
but like there is a

00:19:17.124 --> 00:19:17.903
difference of opinion as to

00:19:17.944 --> 00:19:20.046
whether that matters um and

00:19:20.066 --> 00:19:20.787
there's obviously a

00:19:20.826 --> 00:19:21.967
difference of opinion as to

00:19:21.987 --> 00:19:24.068
whether that matters in um

00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:26.550
you know discourse of

00:19:26.570 --> 00:19:28.912
people who actually stake

00:19:28.991 --> 00:19:30.192
and buy cryptocurrencies

00:19:30.232 --> 00:19:30.993
and trade cryptocurrencies

00:19:31.013 --> 00:19:31.994
and all sorts of stuff so

00:19:32.015 --> 00:19:33.075
anyway it's just exploring

00:19:33.095 --> 00:19:33.816
some of these things and

00:19:33.855 --> 00:19:35.076
like what the sliders are

00:19:35.257 --> 00:19:36.317
essentially but the

00:19:37.403 --> 00:19:38.482
The purpose of it is to

00:19:38.522 --> 00:19:40.284
build a case that if you

00:19:40.324 --> 00:19:41.424
have privacy by default and

00:19:41.464 --> 00:19:43.306
it needs to be from the Genesis block,

00:19:44.125 --> 00:19:46.807
you can reveal people, agents,

00:19:47.146 --> 00:19:48.208
applications can reveal

00:19:48.248 --> 00:19:49.407
more from that point.

00:19:50.107 --> 00:19:51.128
That's up to the individual

00:19:51.169 --> 00:19:51.888
agents in the system.

00:19:51.949 --> 00:19:53.509
But privacy by default has

00:19:53.549 --> 00:19:54.650
these powerful systemic

00:19:54.690 --> 00:19:56.971
guarantees or it sets up

00:19:57.090 --> 00:19:58.112
economic incentives that

00:19:58.231 --> 00:20:00.653
make your system more safe.

00:20:03.003 --> 00:20:03.865
given the assumption that

00:20:03.944 --> 00:20:05.266
you don't have as much tvl

00:20:05.346 --> 00:20:06.407
as say ethereum if you have

00:20:06.468 --> 00:20:07.308
like as much tvl as

00:20:07.348 --> 00:20:08.829
ethereum then it's all

00:20:08.910 --> 00:20:09.830
academic anyway because

00:20:10.332 --> 00:20:10.951
even if people are

00:20:10.991 --> 00:20:11.913
incentivized to attack your

00:20:11.952 --> 00:20:12.993
network they'll attack it

00:20:13.054 --> 00:20:14.195
with something like mev

00:20:14.695 --> 00:20:15.777
fucking around with mev or

00:20:15.817 --> 00:20:16.597
flashlines or something

00:20:16.978 --> 00:20:17.898
because they don't want the

00:20:17.939 --> 00:20:18.940
party to stop and they

00:20:18.980 --> 00:20:21.982
don't want they were

00:20:22.003 --> 00:20:22.804
general I mean you could

00:20:22.844 --> 00:20:23.986
generally assume that very

00:20:24.066 --> 00:20:25.207
few are going to actually

00:20:25.247 --> 00:20:26.327
try and do anything like

00:20:27.739 --> 00:20:29.200
directed attacks at a

00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.201
systemic level because it's

00:20:31.261 --> 00:20:32.242
just not worth it.

00:20:32.343 --> 00:20:33.442
Although a completely

00:20:33.462 --> 00:20:35.365
irrational actor or a troll still might.

00:20:35.444 --> 00:20:36.384
I mean, obviously that's a given,

00:20:36.486 --> 00:20:37.625
but it's much harder and

00:20:37.665 --> 00:20:39.708
much more complex.

00:20:40.127 --> 00:20:43.830
So I'm curious, not just this paper,

00:20:43.851 --> 00:20:46.813
but overall, in something like this where

00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:48.830
It is relatively,

00:20:49.632 --> 00:20:51.354
it's relatively a very new technology,

00:20:51.594 --> 00:20:51.815
right?

00:20:52.295 --> 00:20:54.017
And you have a huge cultural

00:20:54.117 --> 00:20:54.897
aspect of these things,

00:20:54.939 --> 00:20:56.440
not just like the core

00:20:57.320 --> 00:20:58.603
block creation type shit, right?

00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:01.641
when when you're going after

00:21:01.681 --> 00:21:03.602
like a like a doctorate in

00:21:03.642 --> 00:21:05.021
this area and you have like

00:21:05.162 --> 00:21:06.061
these types of things is it

00:21:06.102 --> 00:21:08.083
a traditional paper where

00:21:08.163 --> 00:21:09.583
you have hey these are some

00:21:09.643 --> 00:21:10.742
observations I have a

00:21:10.843 --> 00:21:12.703
thesis I want to go defend

00:21:12.723 --> 00:21:13.644
that thesis because it

00:21:13.763 --> 00:21:15.423
seems like this industry I

00:21:16.003 --> 00:21:17.424
mean no no offense the

00:21:17.464 --> 00:21:18.865
industry is so fucking

00:21:18.924 --> 00:21:20.846
weird in terms of cultural

00:21:20.905 --> 00:21:23.006
movement and like and like

00:21:23.803 --> 00:21:25.482
like it impacts like the

00:21:25.522 --> 00:21:26.584
technology is such a small

00:21:26.844 --> 00:21:28.203
piece of what you just said.

00:21:28.544 --> 00:21:28.743
Right.

00:21:28.943 --> 00:21:29.263
Yeah.

00:21:29.683 --> 00:21:30.345
Like the human,

00:21:30.444 --> 00:21:31.865
the human capability of that,

00:21:31.984 --> 00:21:32.845
like you're much more of a

00:21:32.924 --> 00:21:33.865
psychologist than you are.

00:21:34.945 --> 00:21:35.705
Yeah.

00:21:36.205 --> 00:21:38.366
So like, exactly that.

00:21:38.386 --> 00:21:38.686
Yeah.

00:21:38.727 --> 00:21:40.106
So, so, so when this paper,

00:21:40.146 --> 00:21:41.186
so this paper is a paper of

00:21:41.207 --> 00:21:42.407
a conclusion or it's just like, wow,

00:21:42.448 --> 00:21:43.167
this is fascinating.

00:21:43.208 --> 00:21:43.948
How fucked is this?

00:21:44.028 --> 00:21:44.667
And then you move on.

00:21:44.788 --> 00:21:45.488
Like you go on to the next

00:21:45.528 --> 00:21:47.588
topic and you say, this is what I saw.

00:21:47.648 --> 00:21:49.388
And like, wow, this is really weird.

00:21:49.449 --> 00:21:51.170
And maybe if this happens and this happens,

00:21:51.210 --> 00:21:51.470
but like,

00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:55.911
What do you defend, though?

00:21:55.951 --> 00:21:58.250
So typically, as I understand it anyway,

00:21:58.290 --> 00:22:01.092
a PhD is several papers

00:22:01.132 --> 00:22:02.672
that together form a body of work,

00:22:02.711 --> 00:22:03.652
which you then put a

00:22:03.692 --> 00:22:05.813
capstone paper on to make your thesis,

00:22:05.952 --> 00:22:07.673
and then you defend the body of work.

00:22:07.732 --> 00:22:10.313
So this should have been a

00:22:11.834 --> 00:22:16.555
four-page position paper saying, hey,

00:22:16.894 --> 00:22:18.434
here's some problems with public ledgers.

00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.039
here is here are some ideas

00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:22.840
of what to do about it and

00:22:22.881 --> 00:22:23.980
here's the conclusion and

00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:25.840
watch this space um but

00:22:25.881 --> 00:22:29.561
because if you work in the

00:22:29.582 --> 00:22:30.241
space you actually have

00:22:30.261 --> 00:22:30.961
seen a lot of this stuff in

00:22:30.981 --> 00:22:32.222
the wild you just have in

00:22:32.242 --> 00:22:33.742
your back pocket loads of

00:22:33.782 --> 00:22:35.242
examples of rollbacks and

00:22:35.282 --> 00:22:37.203
rewrites and operational

00:22:37.243 --> 00:22:40.805
issues and you know dirty

00:22:40.825 --> 00:22:41.785
secrets and all that sort

00:22:41.805 --> 00:22:42.704
of stuff and a lot of you

00:22:42.765 --> 00:22:43.865
can't use because it's

00:22:43.924 --> 00:22:45.766
compromised right um what

00:22:46.185 --> 00:22:46.925
do you mean it's compromised

00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:49.782
Uh, like you have a, well,

00:22:49.803 --> 00:22:50.986
you might have a conflict of interest.

00:22:51.205 --> 00:22:52.568
You might be the primary source.

00:22:52.588 --> 00:22:53.611
Like I literally tried to

00:22:53.651 --> 00:22:55.074
find one thing where, um,

00:22:55.213 --> 00:22:55.915
I was just talking about

00:22:55.955 --> 00:22:57.117
something relatively

00:22:57.137 --> 00:22:58.300
unrelated and I was talking about how.

00:23:00.464 --> 00:23:03.147
um trust works when people

00:23:03.268 --> 00:23:05.549
are like a cat emoji right

00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:07.270
and they are running a

00:23:07.310 --> 00:23:08.291
production blockchain worth

00:23:08.311 --> 00:23:08.952
hundreds of millions of

00:23:08.972 --> 00:23:11.615
dollars um and I just like

00:23:11.654 --> 00:23:13.876
made this aside and carried

00:23:13.977 --> 00:23:14.758
on because it wasn't the

00:23:14.778 --> 00:23:15.818
main point it was just like

00:23:15.858 --> 00:23:17.660
it was just a setup for

00:23:17.721 --> 00:23:18.800
something that was talking

00:23:18.842 --> 00:23:20.242
about a technical aspect of a ledger

00:23:20.982 --> 00:23:22.125
and I got pulled up and I

00:23:22.144 --> 00:23:22.924
was like and they were like

00:23:23.286 --> 00:23:24.866
well okay that we know you

00:23:24.967 --> 00:23:26.087
go on here to reference

00:23:26.127 --> 00:23:27.690
like the pbft paper and

00:23:27.730 --> 00:23:28.470
that's really what you want

00:23:28.490 --> 00:23:29.811
to talk about but like you

00:23:29.832 --> 00:23:31.252
need to you need to justify

00:23:31.292 --> 00:23:32.673
this thing here and I was

00:23:32.693 --> 00:23:35.196
like well I have I don't

00:23:35.217 --> 00:23:36.617
know whatever and they were

00:23:36.637 --> 00:23:38.839
like well is it written in

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.280
documentation anywhere like

00:23:40.582 --> 00:23:41.563
how would you know

00:23:42.412 --> 00:23:43.332
who that person is,

00:23:43.412 --> 00:23:44.532
how to approach that person.

00:23:44.633 --> 00:23:45.212
I was like, oh, well,

00:23:45.232 --> 00:23:46.032
somebody would tell you.

00:23:46.133 --> 00:23:46.794
And they're like... Is it in

00:23:46.834 --> 00:23:47.814
documentation anywhere?

00:23:49.335 --> 00:23:50.255
Who would tell you?

00:23:50.734 --> 00:23:51.635
And you're like, oh, well,

00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:52.375
you would ask around.

00:23:52.395 --> 00:23:52.796
They're like, well,

00:23:52.875 --> 00:23:53.915
who would you ask around?

00:23:53.935 --> 00:23:54.517
I was like, well,

00:23:55.017 --> 00:23:56.156
you'd probably go on

00:23:56.596 --> 00:23:57.657
Discord and ask some node

00:23:57.698 --> 00:23:58.417
operators you know.

00:23:58.438 --> 00:23:59.218
And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:23:59.298 --> 00:24:00.259
So all the node operators

00:24:00.318 --> 00:24:00.919
talk to each other?

00:24:00.959 --> 00:24:02.180
And I was like, yeah, well...

00:24:04.020 --> 00:24:04.661
Yeah,

00:24:04.800 --> 00:24:06.021
it's not like there's... How else can

00:24:06.041 --> 00:24:07.363
we collaborate and collude?

00:24:09.025 --> 00:24:09.585
Of course they do.

00:24:10.306 --> 00:24:11.405
It's not exactly like a car town.

00:24:11.425 --> 00:24:15.430
We all live together.

00:24:15.470 --> 00:24:18.571
We all live in a big tree house.

00:24:19.353 --> 00:24:20.313
We're like those three

00:24:20.373 --> 00:24:23.256
skaters in Slapshot.

00:24:23.935 --> 00:24:24.856
The Hansons?

00:24:25.317 --> 00:24:26.657
Yeah, the Hansons, the violent guys.

00:24:26.678 --> 00:24:29.319
And it was just one of those

00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:30.240
where they were like, oh right,

00:24:30.260 --> 00:24:30.882
so this is all...

00:24:32.085 --> 00:24:32.806
And how do you know this?

00:24:32.826 --> 00:24:34.267
And you're like, well, it's, you know,

00:24:34.287 --> 00:24:34.807
there's just a bunch of

00:24:34.846 --> 00:24:36.708
private discord channels and you just,

00:24:36.887 --> 00:24:37.469
you just keep,

00:24:37.608 --> 00:24:38.608
you keep flicking through

00:24:38.648 --> 00:24:39.410
discord channels.

00:24:39.430 --> 00:24:40.810
So you find the person you're looking for.

00:24:41.471 --> 00:24:42.971
And then if you can't find that person,

00:24:42.991 --> 00:24:43.913
you're asking a few of them

00:24:43.952 --> 00:24:45.253
and somebody will hook you up together.

00:24:45.273 --> 00:24:46.375
And they're like,

00:24:46.515 --> 00:24:48.256
this is incredibly prone to

00:24:48.455 --> 00:24:49.477
potential failure.

00:24:49.557 --> 00:24:50.237
And you're like, yeah,

00:24:50.277 --> 00:24:51.097
almost everything has a

00:24:51.117 --> 00:24:51.817
plus factor of one.

00:24:51.917 --> 00:24:52.979
And they're like,

00:24:53.098 --> 00:24:54.259
and none of this is written down.

00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:55.480
And you're like, no.

00:24:55.881 --> 00:24:56.480
Written down where?

00:24:57.061 --> 00:24:57.281
Yeah.

00:24:57.342 --> 00:24:57.862
And so,

00:24:57.961 --> 00:24:59.804
and so basically I had to try and I

00:24:59.824 --> 00:25:01.464
had to try and find any reference.

00:25:02.164 --> 00:25:03.205
for how a typical

00:25:03.306 --> 00:25:04.907
communication process would

00:25:04.968 --> 00:25:07.891
work in a crypto foundation

00:25:08.392 --> 00:25:10.232
and literally go look like

00:25:10.314 --> 00:25:12.496
cosmos um documentation

00:25:12.556 --> 00:25:14.657
github repo this stuff you

00:25:14.718 --> 00:25:16.799
are it is assumed that you

00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:18.561
it's just assumed that you

00:25:18.622 --> 00:25:19.482
know you've got to go to a

00:25:19.522 --> 00:25:21.265
discord and start asking around

00:25:22.526 --> 00:25:22.645
Now,

00:25:22.685 --> 00:25:24.027
try putting that in academic paper

00:25:24.047 --> 00:25:25.267
where you're like, hey, look,

00:25:25.326 --> 00:25:26.607
basically how this works is

00:25:26.647 --> 00:25:28.008
you go to Discord and ask around.

00:25:28.048 --> 00:25:29.628
They're like, okay, can you cite that?

00:25:29.729 --> 00:25:31.990
You're like, you literally can't.

00:25:32.049 --> 00:25:33.790
It's at a private Discord server.

00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:36.751
That you cannot see.

00:25:36.771 --> 00:25:37.692
Yeah, exactly.

00:25:37.811 --> 00:25:40.133
So that was why there's a fun aside,

00:25:40.192 --> 00:25:40.834
one of the things that was

00:25:40.913 --> 00:25:41.473
weighing to it.

00:25:42.074 --> 00:25:44.215
be done for this is that in

00:25:44.256 --> 00:25:46.037
order to prove a couple of

00:25:46.076 --> 00:25:47.557
bits just just as a setup

00:25:47.597 --> 00:25:49.199
for this other point it's I

00:25:49.298 --> 00:25:51.500
think three lines in a

00:25:51.560 --> 00:25:52.862
paper that should bear in

00:25:52.882 --> 00:25:53.281
mind it should have

00:25:53.301 --> 00:25:54.323
originally been four pages

00:25:54.762 --> 00:25:56.463
this paper is now 30 pages

00:25:56.483 --> 00:25:57.404
it's longer than my

00:25:57.464 --> 00:25:58.586
undergraduate dissertation

00:25:58.665 --> 00:26:01.288
is huge um but for four

00:26:01.347 --> 00:26:02.989
lines in that I have been

00:26:03.048 --> 00:26:03.929
asked to prove it

00:26:04.849 --> 00:26:06.250
The only reference I could

00:26:06.290 --> 00:26:07.132
find was a bit of

00:26:07.172 --> 00:26:08.873
documentation that I wrote

00:26:09.252 --> 00:26:10.894
and it is compromised as a result.

00:26:10.953 --> 00:26:11.875
I cannot use it.

00:26:12.555 --> 00:26:14.615
I am the only person that

00:26:14.695 --> 00:26:16.237
bloody wrote down.

00:26:16.698 --> 00:26:19.640
You go on Discord and you tag the Frey,

00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:24.282
Demi, Meow, or Jabby, I think.

00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:27.219
And it was just like, at one of us,

00:26:27.439 --> 00:26:28.500
we'll tell you who you need

00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:29.900
to fucking talk to.

00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:31.180
And that was the only

00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:32.181
reference I could find.

00:26:33.181 --> 00:26:37.021
And so I asked somebody else

00:26:37.041 --> 00:26:37.922
in the computer science department,

00:26:37.942 --> 00:26:38.882
I was like, what do you normally do?

00:26:38.922 --> 00:26:40.702
And they were just like, you know,

00:26:40.722 --> 00:26:42.242
it's a bit social science-y,

00:26:42.262 --> 00:26:44.044
but maybe just like a questionnaire.

00:26:44.084 --> 00:26:44.243
Like,

00:26:44.364 --> 00:26:45.844
do you reckon you could get some node

00:26:45.884 --> 00:26:47.684
operators to answer a question?

00:26:47.704 --> 00:26:48.924
Like, yes, no.

00:26:49.265 --> 00:26:50.685
Do you have to join a Discord?

00:26:50.705 --> 00:26:51.986
And I was like...

00:26:52.506 --> 00:26:52.685
yeah,

00:26:52.705 --> 00:26:54.186
I could probably get people to do that.

00:26:54.247 --> 00:26:55.627
And they were like, okay, right.

00:26:56.028 --> 00:26:56.949
So that's cool.

00:26:57.269 --> 00:26:58.130
So you should do that.

00:26:58.470 --> 00:26:59.770
But you will have to go

00:26:59.830 --> 00:27:01.951
through the legal and ethical board.

00:27:03.692 --> 00:27:04.233
And you're like, what?

00:27:05.554 --> 00:27:06.015
I'm sorry?

00:27:06.835 --> 00:27:08.276
And so it turns out, right,

00:27:08.375 --> 00:27:10.057
that talking to validators,

00:27:10.136 --> 00:27:11.038
I think I mentioned this on

00:27:11.057 --> 00:27:11.718
the pod over before,

00:27:11.758 --> 00:27:12.919
but talking to validators,

00:27:13.239 --> 00:27:14.259
I have to treat this

00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.760
process as if I'm going to

00:27:16.401 --> 00:27:19.884
contact some previously uncontacted

00:27:20.624 --> 00:27:22.724
like tribe of people or like

00:27:22.825 --> 00:27:24.164
village in a really remote

00:27:24.204 --> 00:27:25.085
place or something like

00:27:25.125 --> 00:27:27.665
that um and I feel

00:27:27.705 --> 00:27:29.106
sometimes I had to do like

00:27:29.126 --> 00:27:30.747
a 25 page risk assessment

00:27:30.787 --> 00:27:31.988
of why what the impact

00:27:32.008 --> 00:27:32.988
would be of the

00:27:33.028 --> 00:27:33.928
participants in this

00:27:33.988 --> 00:27:35.769
questionnaire and study and

00:27:35.788 --> 00:27:37.328
it was just like oh I mean

00:27:37.409 --> 00:27:38.349
I'll probably give them

00:27:38.650 --> 00:27:39.789
five minutes break from

00:27:39.869 --> 00:27:41.310
staring at logs and tearing

00:27:41.351 --> 00:27:42.431
their hair out or just you

00:27:42.471 --> 00:27:44.932
know the constant dread of

00:27:44.991 --> 00:27:48.133
being a validator um I don't know man

00:27:51.031 --> 00:27:51.712
but yeah so I had to

00:27:52.073 --> 00:27:54.276
basically go through I've

00:27:54.435 --> 00:27:56.357
still I've finished all the

00:27:56.377 --> 00:27:58.220
data protection stuff and

00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:00.663
I'm waiting you did do it I

00:28:00.702 --> 00:28:01.523
had to yeah because I've

00:28:01.544 --> 00:28:03.425
got to prove this holy shit

00:28:03.445 --> 00:28:05.867
I didn't get this survey

00:28:05.887 --> 00:28:07.349
yeah who the hell did you

00:28:07.390 --> 00:28:07.990
ask for the survey

00:28:08.816 --> 00:28:09.395
I'm waiting.

00:28:09.516 --> 00:28:12.457
I haven't got proof from the

00:28:12.477 --> 00:28:13.738
ethics board yet.

00:28:14.018 --> 00:28:14.698
How are the ethics board...

00:28:14.738 --> 00:28:16.038
Are you going to ask us

00:28:16.077 --> 00:28:16.898
since we've talked about

00:28:16.919 --> 00:28:19.239
this on a podcast forever on YouTube?

00:28:19.679 --> 00:28:23.039
Probably not.

00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:24.020
But one of the funnier

00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:24.980
questions was it was

00:28:25.040 --> 00:28:26.821
like... The question I'm

00:28:26.842 --> 00:28:28.041
trying to answer is...

00:28:28.642 --> 00:28:29.482
I'm just trying to prove

00:28:29.563 --> 00:28:31.544
that a lot of these communications happen,

00:28:31.644 --> 00:28:33.484
single point failure in a closed channel,

00:28:33.545 --> 00:28:33.704
right?

00:28:34.125 --> 00:28:34.526
That's it.

00:28:34.665 --> 00:28:35.487
That's the only statement.

00:28:35.527 --> 00:28:37.248
It's an aside leading on to

00:28:37.268 --> 00:28:40.210
a point about software

00:28:40.250 --> 00:28:42.030
reliability and disaster recovery, right?

00:28:42.310 --> 00:28:42.872
Which is made from a

00:28:42.971 --> 00:28:44.051
technical perspective with

00:28:44.071 --> 00:28:45.032
a reference to other

00:28:45.113 --> 00:28:46.134
distributed systems and

00:28:46.173 --> 00:28:47.054
software practices, right?

00:28:47.074 --> 00:28:49.715
So this is a computer science course.

00:28:49.776 --> 00:28:50.977
It's not a blockchain thing.

00:28:51.958 --> 00:28:54.078
It's a computer science PhD, right?

00:28:54.098 --> 00:28:55.299
So I have to do the technical thing.

00:28:55.819 --> 00:28:57.019
But in the run-up to it, I just go, okay,

00:28:57.060 --> 00:28:57.540
point failure.

00:28:57.961 --> 00:28:58.260
Anyway,

00:29:00.082 --> 00:29:04.143
so in order to actually prove that point,

00:29:04.363 --> 00:29:06.104
I need to also say, well,

00:29:06.124 --> 00:29:06.983
how are you going to find

00:29:07.023 --> 00:29:07.763
your participants?

00:29:08.244 --> 00:29:09.664
And so in the original

00:29:09.724 --> 00:29:10.664
version of the ethics form

00:29:10.684 --> 00:29:11.486
that I was submitting, I was like,

00:29:11.846 --> 00:29:12.685
I'll probably just post it

00:29:12.705 --> 00:29:14.106
to a closed forum on Discord.

00:29:14.126 --> 00:29:16.267
And they were like,

00:29:17.667 --> 00:29:18.627
fucking bell's gone off.

00:29:18.968 --> 00:29:21.808
And I was like, no, but hang on a minute.

00:29:22.009 --> 00:29:22.869
And I was like, well, yeah, but...

00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:25.310
where like this is where

00:29:25.371 --> 00:29:26.132
people are and they're like

00:29:26.352 --> 00:29:27.192
well no but you must know

00:29:27.231 --> 00:29:28.093
how to get a hold of people

00:29:28.153 --> 00:29:29.133
otherwise I was like that's

00:29:29.192 --> 00:29:30.473
literally the point I'm

00:29:30.534 --> 00:29:33.195
trying to prove I've got

00:29:34.356 --> 00:29:35.176
I've got an actual answer

00:29:35.196 --> 00:29:36.698
to this you control the

00:29:36.738 --> 00:29:37.838
blockchain for validation

00:29:37.858 --> 00:29:39.058
get their security contact

00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.320
and cold call their security email

00:29:42.887 --> 00:29:44.308
Ah, yes, that's definitely,

00:29:44.368 --> 00:29:45.690
definitely maintained, isn't it?

00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:46.090
That is.

00:29:46.611 --> 00:29:47.511
Actually, it probably is.

00:29:47.791 --> 00:29:49.252
To be fair,

00:29:49.593 --> 00:29:50.673
I would say that I think

00:29:50.814 --> 00:29:52.536
filling out security

00:29:52.796 --> 00:29:54.237
contact within Cosmos

00:29:54.356 --> 00:29:55.998
validator metadata has

00:29:56.117 --> 00:29:59.141
become a lot more common

00:29:59.320 --> 00:30:03.344
now than it was 2021-22, for sure.

00:30:04.484 --> 00:30:06.625
Validators love the docs and email.

00:30:07.926 --> 00:30:09.648
But is your scope limited to Cosmos or no?

00:30:13.788 --> 00:30:15.290
Almost all of the case

00:30:15.330 --> 00:30:16.211
studies will be Cosmos

00:30:16.231 --> 00:30:17.714
because it's just what I know the best.

00:30:17.734 --> 00:30:20.137
There is some stuff about Aptos,

00:30:20.178 --> 00:30:21.881
but the stuff about Aptos

00:30:22.121 --> 00:30:24.023
is about slashing...

00:30:26.710 --> 00:30:27.451
It's about slashing

00:30:27.510 --> 00:30:29.394
mechanics and theoretical attacks.

00:30:29.413 --> 00:30:30.435
Is there slashing in Aptos?

00:30:30.476 --> 00:30:30.997
There is, right?

00:30:31.017 --> 00:30:31.917
No.

00:30:32.278 --> 00:30:32.719
Oh, there isn't.

00:30:33.220 --> 00:30:34.721
Is there slashing for anything in Aptos?

00:30:36.444 --> 00:30:36.704
Obviously,

00:30:36.724 --> 00:30:37.425
there is double signing and

00:30:37.445 --> 00:30:37.826
things like that.

00:30:37.846 --> 00:30:38.448
But is there anything else?

00:30:38.468 --> 00:30:39.308
There's a page basically

00:30:39.348 --> 00:30:41.152
saying that this will probably happen.

00:30:42.472 --> 00:30:43.614
But it hasn't been implemented yet.

00:30:43.693 --> 00:30:46.035
So I don't know.

00:30:46.076 --> 00:30:47.096
I'd have to talk to somebody

00:30:47.155 --> 00:30:48.916
from the Aptos team to establish this.

00:30:48.977 --> 00:30:50.818
But my understanding would

00:30:50.858 --> 00:30:51.838
be that because they're

00:30:51.999 --> 00:30:52.920
obviously proof of stake,

00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:54.381
so very heavily leveraged

00:30:54.441 --> 00:30:56.021
into economic finality.

00:30:56.041 --> 00:30:56.882
Must be something, yeah.

00:30:57.762 --> 00:31:00.704
Well, the minimum stake is 1 million Aptos,

00:31:00.765 --> 00:31:00.924
right?

00:31:01.005 --> 00:31:03.767
And they're backed by market

00:31:03.787 --> 00:31:04.326
makers and venture

00:31:04.346 --> 00:31:05.307
capitalists to try and

00:31:05.367 --> 00:31:06.769
maintain a kind of price peg.

00:31:07.739 --> 00:31:09.961
The floor for Aptos, not financial advice,

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.182
appears to be about $4, $3 to $4.

00:31:11.182 --> 00:31:12.462
So the security of their

00:31:12.502 --> 00:31:14.444
finality on their

00:31:14.724 --> 00:31:15.826
blockchain is $4 million.

00:31:20.355 --> 00:31:22.517
like at a bare minimum for one validator.

00:31:22.876 --> 00:31:23.136
Yes.

00:31:24.057 --> 00:31:26.397
So multiply that by, I mean,

00:31:27.057 --> 00:31:28.077
it's about 100 validators.

00:31:28.137 --> 00:31:31.759
I know it's more than that, but, you know,

00:31:31.798 --> 00:31:32.499
the number's big.

00:31:32.578 --> 00:31:34.599
We're talking like whatever that is,

00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.381
three times, what's three times four?

00:31:40.767 --> 00:31:44.790
So it's like $120 million or so,

00:31:44.830 --> 00:31:46.132
like a minimum to attack

00:31:46.251 --> 00:31:48.054
Aptos purely in economic terms.

00:31:49.234 --> 00:31:52.017
So what they've done there is,

00:31:53.018 --> 00:31:54.419
I assume anyway,

00:31:56.821 --> 00:31:58.363
because they have all of

00:31:58.383 --> 00:31:59.263
that other stuff going on

00:31:59.324 --> 00:32:01.385
and finality is only ever

00:32:01.465 --> 00:32:02.646
determined by incentives.

00:32:02.666 --> 00:32:04.248
They've decided $120 million

00:32:04.268 --> 00:32:05.690
for the moment is good enough.

00:32:07.446 --> 00:32:09.969
Um, and I mean,

00:32:10.209 --> 00:32:11.589
there is an entire other argument,

00:32:11.630 --> 00:32:12.411
which we've been having on

00:32:12.431 --> 00:32:17.233
this podcast for years over

00:32:17.413 --> 00:32:18.974
whether or not, um,

00:32:19.355 --> 00:32:21.096
tombstoning as designed in

00:32:21.155 --> 00:32:23.958
cosmos actually does do the

00:32:23.978 --> 00:32:25.157
job it's supposed to,

00:32:25.919 --> 00:32:26.980
which I would argue it doesn't.

00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:28.180
And I think from having

00:32:28.800 --> 00:32:30.761
assembled a bunch of scenarios where.

00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:35.071
tombstoning has rolled back successfully,

00:32:35.251 --> 00:32:35.912
unsuccessfully.

00:32:36.112 --> 00:32:37.173
We see it all the time.

00:32:37.333 --> 00:32:38.913
We've seen it in the last couple of weeks.

00:32:40.433 --> 00:32:42.194
We might see it again coming up.

00:32:42.974 --> 00:32:43.375
That's right.

00:32:43.414 --> 00:32:44.375
There were two tombstones

00:32:44.435 --> 00:32:45.576
today on the Cosmos Hub.

00:32:45.596 --> 00:32:49.097
So who's going to hit the button?

00:32:51.179 --> 00:32:51.959
Bray's looking for it.

00:32:52.098 --> 00:32:52.740
I can't find it.

00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:53.440
Where is it?

00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:54.140
Be my guest.

00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:54.400
Tombstone!

00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:55.161
No way!

00:32:57.491 --> 00:33:00.236
So there was a Cosmos Hub upgrade today,

00:33:00.256 --> 00:33:02.058
because I know that it

00:33:02.098 --> 00:33:02.980
stalled for a little bit.

00:33:03.080 --> 00:33:05.724
But they didn't do a new

00:33:05.765 --> 00:33:06.425
binary or something.

00:33:06.445 --> 00:33:07.528
So what happened, Chelsea?

00:33:07.548 --> 00:33:08.829
We're not a hub validator.

00:33:09.732 --> 00:33:11.193
No, no, it was a new binary.

00:33:11.213 --> 00:33:13.056
It was upgraded to v15, I think.

00:33:13.355 --> 00:33:15.096
And it was stopped for over two hours.

00:33:15.657 --> 00:33:15.817
Right,

00:33:15.837 --> 00:33:16.939
but so why were they tombstone

00:33:16.979 --> 00:33:17.719
during that piece?

00:33:17.739 --> 00:33:22.222
They were just like trying to state sync.

00:33:22.603 --> 00:33:24.044
Was it like a governance

00:33:24.084 --> 00:33:25.144
gated upgrade or was it

00:33:25.184 --> 00:33:26.346
just like a yellow upgrade?

00:33:26.566 --> 00:33:27.727
No, it's governance gated.

00:33:29.367 --> 00:33:30.788
No, so I think what the issue was,

00:33:31.048 --> 00:33:32.109
I can't speak to what

00:33:32.150 --> 00:33:32.971
actually happened to them,

00:33:33.090 --> 00:33:35.231
but the upgrade actually took...

00:33:36.299 --> 00:33:37.019
A long time.

00:33:37.461 --> 00:33:38.381
And part of the issue with

00:33:38.401 --> 00:33:39.541
that was you needed a

00:33:39.561 --> 00:33:40.942
minimum of 128 gigabytes of

00:33:41.022 --> 00:33:42.403
Ram slash swap.

00:33:42.963 --> 00:33:43.865
And most people didn't.

00:33:43.984 --> 00:33:45.025
And so I think those two

00:33:45.085 --> 00:33:46.145
specifically what happened

00:33:46.185 --> 00:33:48.007
was they ran up their machine,

00:33:48.047 --> 00:33:49.307
their machine probably shut down.

00:33:49.367 --> 00:33:51.209
And so they probably moved

00:33:51.229 --> 00:33:51.828
their key over to a

00:33:51.848 --> 00:33:52.509
different thing and tried

00:33:52.529 --> 00:33:53.609
to finish upgrade somewhere

00:33:53.711 --> 00:33:55.951
else and then didn't fix it.

00:33:56.817 --> 00:33:57.759
That's what I would guess,

00:33:57.798 --> 00:33:58.979
because that's what a lot

00:33:58.999 --> 00:33:59.660
of the chat kind of

00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.441
suggested from what people were saying.

00:34:01.840 --> 00:34:03.000
Or they never made the upgrade.

00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:04.862
They removed the state file.

00:34:05.603 --> 00:34:06.883
And then, oh, but the block,

00:34:06.923 --> 00:34:07.983
but they would have, well,

00:34:08.003 --> 00:34:08.784
the blocks would have moved forward,

00:34:08.824 --> 00:34:08.963
right?

00:34:08.985 --> 00:34:09.505
So it wouldn't matter.

00:34:09.545 --> 00:34:10.244
If the blocks moved forward,

00:34:10.264 --> 00:34:11.766
they were just nullvoted in the move.

00:34:11.786 --> 00:34:12.425
Yeah, it wouldn't matter.

00:34:13.286 --> 00:34:13.907
So yeah, they must have.

00:34:14.527 --> 00:34:15.547
So do you know how much

00:34:15.827 --> 00:34:16.547
stake do those guys have?

00:34:16.568 --> 00:34:16.829
Do you know?

00:34:18.469 --> 00:34:18.909
I'm not sure.

00:34:18.929 --> 00:34:20.070
Although it was sucked off

00:34:20.110 --> 00:34:20.851
of them really quick.

00:34:21.851 --> 00:34:24.014
Right now they're at zero and like 2,000.

00:34:24.375 --> 00:34:25.335
But they were in the active set,

00:34:25.356 --> 00:34:26.077
which means they had like

00:34:26.077 --> 00:34:26.637
100,000 each before.

00:34:26.657 --> 00:34:29.181
Yeah, because the floor is pretty high,

00:34:29.221 --> 00:34:29.400
right?

00:34:29.420 --> 00:34:30.882
The floor is like... Yeah, yeah.

00:34:31.023 --> 00:34:32.023
So I don't know.

00:34:32.585 --> 00:34:33.246
Because I was looking at...

00:34:33.686 --> 00:34:34.327
What's that Twitter...

00:34:36.929 --> 00:34:38.532
What's the Twitter account

00:34:38.612 --> 00:34:39.753
for... Slashbot?

00:34:39.952 --> 00:34:41.514
Cosmos underscore slashbot.

00:34:41.534 --> 00:34:41.856
I'll put it...

00:34:43.297 --> 00:34:44.518
a link in the show notes as well.

00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:44.679
Yeah.

00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:45.458
They still don't have it updated.

00:34:45.518 --> 00:34:46.539
It still hasn't updated

00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:48.059
since 18 hours ago.

00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:49.199
I need to put, I need to put,

00:34:49.219 --> 00:34:50.081
I need to put Cosmos.

00:34:50.101 --> 00:34:50.860
I need to put a reference to

00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.222
Cosmos slash board in my paper.

00:34:52.262 --> 00:34:55.382
That would be, this is a, it's a,

00:34:55.443 --> 00:34:57.302
it's a good, I love it.

00:34:57.563 --> 00:34:59.423
You asked me what a paper

00:34:59.463 --> 00:35:00.125
looks like when you're

00:35:00.144 --> 00:35:02.144
trying to do a serious CS paper,

00:35:02.644 --> 00:35:03.726
but on this bullshit,

00:35:03.786 --> 00:35:05.005
literally half of the

00:35:05.045 --> 00:35:06.086
references are like,

00:35:06.847 --> 00:35:08.429
like practical byzantine

00:35:08.449 --> 00:35:09.411
fault tolerance a new

00:35:09.471 --> 00:35:10.572
approach to blah blah blah

00:35:10.612 --> 00:35:12.536
like you serious sounding

00:35:12.576 --> 00:35:14.759
papers I only fucking half

00:35:14.818 --> 00:35:17.623
understand and then and

00:35:17.664 --> 00:35:18.945
then it's literally just like

00:35:19.815 --> 00:35:21.496
just like billy big balls on

00:35:21.577 --> 00:35:23.896
twitter oh this chain's

00:35:23.956 --> 00:35:26.277
fucking dead with the

00:35:26.338 --> 00:35:28.278
double sword icon things

00:35:28.298 --> 00:35:29.599
like that I wish I could

00:35:29.619 --> 00:35:30.360
filter this out I need to

00:35:30.380 --> 00:35:31.300
filter this out because

00:35:31.340 --> 00:35:33.059
half this shit is injective

00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:34.800
you know whatever I mean to

00:35:35.161 --> 00:35:36.300
be fair joking aside though

00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:37.541
so there are some suspect

00:35:37.702 --> 00:35:38.581
references that I was just

00:35:38.601 --> 00:35:39.402
like I can't find another

00:35:39.422 --> 00:35:40.282
reference so it's just

00:35:40.302 --> 00:35:42.583
gonna be fucking minscan again yolo um

00:35:44.423 --> 00:35:46.385
I did actually use a

00:35:46.465 --> 00:35:48.925
reference to a friend of the podcast,

00:35:49.125 --> 00:35:49.565
Asaf.

00:35:51.425 --> 00:35:52.186
Asaf's Twitter.

00:35:52.485 --> 00:35:56.347
Because there were a couple of incidents.

00:35:56.407 --> 00:35:57.648
I think it might have been

00:35:57.788 --> 00:35:59.527
one of the secret halts,

00:35:59.628 --> 00:36:01.668
plus maybe the first Juno cyber attack,

00:36:01.708 --> 00:36:02.309
something like that.

00:36:03.228 --> 00:36:04.210
He wrote threads on.

00:36:04.869 --> 00:36:05.809
And so I was just like, oh,

00:36:06.590 --> 00:36:07.751
this is actually a more

00:36:07.831 --> 00:36:09.291
concise explanation of

00:36:10.722 --> 00:36:12.262
of anything I wanted to say.

00:36:12.722 --> 00:36:14.724
So I just don't have to say it.

00:36:14.983 --> 00:36:19.744
I can just cite Mirami a

00:36:19.744 --> 00:36:22.905
2022 brackets open Twitter or whatever,

00:36:23.545 --> 00:36:24.644
and then just stated as

00:36:25.085 --> 00:36:27.005
bold fact and then move on

00:36:27.045 --> 00:36:28.286
and make the actual argument.

00:36:28.306 --> 00:36:30.606
I want to, it's just like, great.

00:36:31.067 --> 00:36:31.427
Awesome.

00:36:32.547 --> 00:36:35.266
So, so back to, just really quick.

00:36:35.286 --> 00:36:37.867
So back to, back to the jailings today,

00:36:38.108 --> 00:36:39.387
who, who got jailed?

00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:41.300
They're out of the set.

00:36:41.481 --> 00:36:43.202
Yeah, they're out of the set.

00:36:43.262 --> 00:36:46.224
Cosmos Pool and... Let me

00:36:46.244 --> 00:36:46.865
scroll up and find them.

00:36:49.829 --> 00:36:50.869
I'm trying to find them on the top.

00:36:50.909 --> 00:36:51.911
They're not even at the top

00:36:52.010 --> 00:36:54.572
of the jailed list.

00:36:55.474 --> 00:36:56.275
No, like I said,

00:36:56.894 --> 00:36:57.795
their delegation got sucked

00:36:57.835 --> 00:36:59.378
away immediately.

00:36:59.617 --> 00:37:00.458
That's really weird because

00:37:00.518 --> 00:37:01.760
Certus 1 has 286,000 still sitting there.

00:37:04.297 --> 00:37:06.440
in uh in the jail list which

00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:08.041
is a fuckload of money like

00:37:08.061 --> 00:37:09.541
I'm I'm really surprised

00:37:09.561 --> 00:37:12.224
how fast that moved must

00:37:12.244 --> 00:37:12.864
have been a whale

00:37:12.884 --> 00:37:13.684
delegation or something

00:37:13.704 --> 00:37:15.505
like that oh yeah it could

00:37:15.525 --> 00:37:16.106
have been yeah it could

00:37:16.126 --> 00:37:17.487
have been one one giant

00:37:17.927 --> 00:37:18.809
it's not state capital

00:37:18.849 --> 00:37:19.869
right somebody else you

00:37:19.909 --> 00:37:22.411
said capital capital and

00:37:22.451 --> 00:37:24.932
cosmos pool what if you

00:37:24.952 --> 00:37:26.815
capital state capitals in

00:37:26.855 --> 00:37:28.036
here with only 2 000 adam left

00:37:30.202 --> 00:37:31.862
Yeah, that must be like... One second.

00:37:31.882 --> 00:37:34.043
Somebody's either just

00:37:34.103 --> 00:37:35.704
broken into my house or my

00:37:35.744 --> 00:37:36.625
partner has returned.

00:37:36.644 --> 00:37:38.686
I'm guessing probably the...

00:37:40.027 --> 00:37:40.686
Probably the latter,

00:37:40.726 --> 00:37:41.608
but I should probably check

00:37:41.668 --> 00:37:42.728
given there's a baby here.

00:37:42.748 --> 00:37:44.009
Yeah, you probably should.

00:37:44.809 --> 00:37:45.650
Who the hell's coming in?

00:37:46.550 --> 00:37:47.150
That's amazing.

00:37:47.451 --> 00:37:49.612
And then what's the

00:37:50.512 --> 00:37:52.893
tombstone slashing penalty on Cosmos?

00:37:52.954 --> 00:37:55.074
I have no idea.

00:37:55.094 --> 00:37:55.494
5%, I think.

00:37:56.094 --> 00:37:56.376
Is it?

00:37:56.556 --> 00:37:57.076
Is it that high?

00:37:57.983 --> 00:37:59.184
I'm pretty sure that's the standard,

00:37:59.204 --> 00:37:59.485
right?

00:37:59.545 --> 00:38:01.365
So I would expect them to be the same.

00:38:01.686 --> 00:38:02.106
Downtime is 0.01.

00:38:02.646 --> 00:38:02.847
Yeah.

00:38:03.027 --> 00:38:05.148
Slash double sign is 5%.

00:38:06.068 --> 00:38:09.090
So that's gotta be a decent dollar amount,

00:38:09.150 --> 00:38:09.329
right?

00:38:10.371 --> 00:38:11.630
At least a couple hundred thousand,

00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:12.112
no matter what.

00:38:13.132 --> 00:38:13.371
Yeah.

00:38:13.512 --> 00:38:14.373
I mean, well, yeah.

00:38:14.652 --> 00:38:15.413
And I mean,

00:38:15.452 --> 00:38:16.454
even if they just have a 2000

00:38:16.454 --> 00:38:18.195
that they have right now, right.

00:38:18.195 --> 00:38:20.936
5% of 2000 is still, you know,

00:38:21.617 --> 00:38:21.996
what is that?

00:38:22.617 --> 00:38:23.398
A hundred Adam,

00:38:23.478 --> 00:38:24.518
which is still a thousand dollars,

00:38:24.538 --> 00:38:25.239
like a thousand dollars at

00:38:25.259 --> 00:38:25.699
the very minimum,

00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:26.980
but it has to be above that.

00:38:27.625 --> 00:38:27.784
Yeah.

00:38:28.385 --> 00:38:29.166
So I don't know.

00:38:30.067 --> 00:38:30.706
And do they,

00:38:30.867 --> 00:38:32.768
do they rebond into it as a new valve?

00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:34.030
They must've, huh?

00:38:35.351 --> 00:38:35.871
I don't think so.

00:38:35.931 --> 00:38:37.192
And they also went very quiet.

00:38:37.913 --> 00:38:38.152
Yeah.

00:38:38.172 --> 00:38:39.693
Well, you don't have a, as I would,

00:38:39.713 --> 00:38:42.396
I didn't come on Twitter with the, Oh,

00:38:43.556 --> 00:38:44.318
it's not our fault.

00:38:46.139 --> 00:38:46.780
Something happened.

00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.541
It was our DevOps.

00:38:51.684 --> 00:38:52.724
We're so fucking automated

00:38:52.764 --> 00:38:54.786
that we just absolutely ran

00:38:54.826 --> 00:38:55.786
automations too many times.

00:38:57.264 --> 00:38:57.364
Yeah,

00:38:57.384 --> 00:38:58.184
I don't even see them actually

00:38:58.224 --> 00:38:59.045
anymore in there.

00:38:59.485 --> 00:39:00.925
But they must have a couple

00:39:00.945 --> 00:39:02.965
hundred thousand at 5%.

00:39:02.965 --> 00:39:04.706
So you got to figure at

00:39:04.726 --> 00:39:06.907
least at the very minute.

00:39:06.927 --> 00:39:08.367
Well, I mean,

00:39:08.387 --> 00:39:10.188
the bottom of the set here is 51,000.

00:39:10.188 --> 00:39:13.869
So at 5% of that, you're talking 2,500,

00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:17.210
which is 25,000 at least

00:39:17.311 --> 00:39:19.931
dollars plus or minus.

00:39:20.431 --> 00:39:20.911
It's got to be.

00:39:21.092 --> 00:39:21.291
I mean,

00:39:21.311 --> 00:39:22.632
I'm guessing they're much more than

00:39:22.652 --> 00:39:23.793
that in terms of where they were.

00:39:25.583 --> 00:39:28.224
I mean, $25,000 is a pretty good amount.

00:39:29.724 --> 00:39:30.445
Not, not for,

00:39:30.485 --> 00:39:31.666
not for a hub slashing though,

00:39:31.706 --> 00:39:32.525
a double sign on the hub.

00:39:32.585 --> 00:39:36.086
Like, I mean, you might be able, I mean,

00:39:36.106 --> 00:39:37.228
there's good possibility to

00:39:37.268 --> 00:39:37.827
get in the millions,

00:39:37.867 --> 00:39:38.768
depending on who you are.

00:39:38.929 --> 00:39:39.128
Right.

00:39:39.309 --> 00:39:40.568
Like in this area,

00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:42.329
I was about to say like the

00:39:42.369 --> 00:39:43.090
injective ones,

00:39:44.731 --> 00:39:45.710
they're crazy compared to that.

00:39:45.791 --> 00:39:48.411
Like they're way more impressive word,

00:39:48.753 --> 00:39:49.333
but impressive.

00:39:50.356 --> 00:39:51.697
You mean like, well,

00:39:51.717 --> 00:39:53.719
do you mean the slash

00:39:53.739 --> 00:39:56.081
amounts or you just mean like the,

00:39:56.822 --> 00:39:57.682
just the value of it?

00:39:58.623 --> 00:39:58.943
TVL.

00:39:58.963 --> 00:39:59.804
The value of it.

00:40:00.005 --> 00:40:00.365
Yeah.

00:40:00.485 --> 00:40:00.666
I mean,

00:40:00.686 --> 00:40:01.726
there have been three or $400,000

00:40:01.726 --> 00:40:03.748
plus slashes in the last

00:40:03.809 --> 00:40:04.829
like quarter now.

00:40:05.451 --> 00:40:06.552
That's pretty good.

00:40:06.771 --> 00:40:07.192
Now granted,

00:40:07.231 --> 00:40:08.213
I think two of them are Binance,

00:40:08.233 --> 00:40:08.534
but still.

00:40:09.365 --> 00:40:10.347
Are they making those up or no?

00:40:10.887 --> 00:40:11.166
Oh, they don't.

00:40:11.306 --> 00:40:12.068
Binance doesn't care, right?

00:40:12.088 --> 00:40:12.628
They don't give a shit.

00:40:12.847 --> 00:40:13.708
Yeah, Binance doesn't care.

00:40:14.068 --> 00:40:15.349
They just relaunched their

00:40:15.369 --> 00:40:16.150
validator and call it good.

00:40:16.170 --> 00:40:17.210
And it's not double signing.

00:40:17.251 --> 00:40:18.771
I think it's generally Pego for them.

00:40:19.652 --> 00:40:20.934
Yeah, 0.01% or whatever the hell that is.

00:40:22.014 --> 00:40:23.956
And didn't all say that

00:40:23.976 --> 00:40:26.197
they're changing the structure of that?

00:40:26.657 --> 00:40:27.978
What are they doing with Pego?

00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:29.179
Are they changing the slash

00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:30.860
amount or they're launching

00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:31.601
a new version or something?

00:40:31.641 --> 00:40:32.461
What happened with that?

00:40:33.518 --> 00:40:33.818
No,

00:40:34.539 --> 00:40:35.860
there's just a proposal to make the

00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:36.780
window larger.

00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:39.141
So it's going to be like

00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:41.561
eight hours of missed blocks instead of,

00:40:41.621 --> 00:40:42.681
I think, three.

00:40:42.702 --> 00:40:43.902
Oh, OK.

00:40:43.961 --> 00:40:44.563
All right.

00:40:44.663 --> 00:40:45.463
That seems reasonable.

00:40:46.282 --> 00:40:46.623
Granted,

00:40:46.682 --> 00:40:47.903
if you're not if you don't monitoring,

00:40:47.923 --> 00:40:48.483
that's not really going to

00:40:48.503 --> 00:40:49.264
help you regardless.

00:40:49.403 --> 00:40:50.344
But still,

00:40:50.844 --> 00:40:52.025
one eight hours is way better

00:40:52.045 --> 00:40:53.625
than one would fucking hope

00:40:53.664 --> 00:40:54.166
that somebody has

00:40:54.206 --> 00:40:55.146
monitoring is to see to it.

00:40:57.306 --> 00:40:58.226
Yeah, one would hope.

00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:02.782
Oh man, that's fun.

00:41:02.804 --> 00:41:04.568
I love a good slashing.

00:41:06.311 --> 00:41:07.952
I mean, not with me, but whatever.

00:41:08.052 --> 00:41:08.733
Yeah, I was going to say,

00:41:08.753 --> 00:41:11.195
I like it far less now that

00:41:11.295 --> 00:41:12.675
we've been slashed on Pego.

00:41:13.456 --> 00:41:14.878
Now I'm far less entertained by it.

00:41:15.137 --> 00:41:15.838
Still entertained,

00:41:15.858 --> 00:41:17.300
because then I can really

00:41:17.420 --> 00:41:18.581
bask in how horrible people

00:41:18.601 --> 00:41:19.402
are feeling right now.

00:41:21.063 --> 00:41:22.884
Yeah, but .01, I mean, honestly.

00:41:23.905 --> 00:41:24.565
The question is,

00:41:24.865 --> 00:41:28.048
the .01 slashing on Pego is

00:41:28.369 --> 00:41:28.969
a bit bullshit.

00:41:28.989 --> 00:41:28.969
.01.

00:41:29.028 --> 00:41:29.210
Is it .01 or .01?

00:41:29.269 --> 00:41:29.469
No, it's .01.

00:41:29.550 --> 00:41:29.670
It's .01.

00:41:29.949 --> 00:41:30.931
I assure you, it's .01.

00:41:37.284 --> 00:41:37.585
really?

00:41:37.804 --> 00:41:38.425
I thought, wait,

00:41:38.465 --> 00:41:39.565
what can that in terms of

00:41:39.585 --> 00:41:41.085
the Cosmos slash bot?

00:41:41.365 --> 00:41:42.346
I see a shitload of

00:41:42.405 --> 00:41:43.525
injective slashes on there.

00:41:44.545 --> 00:41:45.246
What are they showing there?

00:41:45.326 --> 00:41:46.706
Oh, no, they're showing 0.01.

00:41:47.467 --> 00:41:47.987
Well, that might be,

00:41:48.106 --> 00:41:48.847
maybe that's a different slash.

00:41:48.867 --> 00:41:49.987
Maybe that's a downtime slash then.

00:41:50.746 --> 00:41:52.188
Downtime slash is 0.01.

00:41:52.768 --> 00:41:53.188
Pago is 0.1.

00:41:53.588 --> 00:41:55.228
Oh, then why are all these,

00:41:55.847 --> 00:41:56.688
why are all these fucking

00:41:56.708 --> 00:41:58.548
people missing downtime slashes?

00:41:58.568 --> 00:41:59.449
There's a shitload of

00:41:59.509 --> 00:42:00.548
injective associated to that.

00:42:01.568 --> 00:42:03.108
Well, it's a bunch too.

00:42:04.389 --> 00:42:04.510
Ah,

00:42:04.570 --> 00:42:06.369
Romer said that slash bot doesn't show

00:42:06.489 --> 00:42:06.789
Pago.

00:42:08.432 --> 00:42:08.693
Oh, really?

00:42:08.713 --> 00:42:09.273
Oh, that's interesting.

00:42:09.614 --> 00:42:10.275
Well,

00:42:10.295 --> 00:42:12.697
maybe it's just monitoring the RPC of

00:42:12.737 --> 00:42:13.717
the node itself, right?

00:42:13.797 --> 00:42:15.818
Because Pego is a separate service,

00:42:15.878 --> 00:42:16.099
isn't it?

00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:17.601
That's true.

00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:18.561
It's a separate thing you'd

00:42:18.581 --> 00:42:19.202
have to monitor for.

00:42:19.242 --> 00:42:20.943
You're right.

00:42:21.043 --> 00:42:21.222
Well,

00:42:21.242 --> 00:42:22.945
you can get that information from Pego.

00:42:22.965 --> 00:42:23.865
It's just that you'd have to

00:42:23.925 --> 00:42:24.626
monitor a different

00:42:24.666 --> 00:42:25.646
endpoint rather than your

00:42:25.726 --> 00:42:26.427
standard slashing.

00:42:26.987 --> 00:42:28.208
I would imagine the Slashbot

00:42:28.268 --> 00:42:29.170
isn't a particularly

00:42:29.630 --> 00:42:30.751
complex piece of software.

00:42:30.831 --> 00:42:32.612
It's just some DEO load.

00:42:33.032 --> 00:42:34.393
Don't be dissing Slashbot.

00:42:34.673 --> 00:42:36.135
Oh, so you wrote the Slashbot?

00:42:37.666 --> 00:42:39.128
I wish that was a really good thing.

00:42:39.847 --> 00:42:41.349
Prism's stake dropped slash

00:42:41.409 --> 00:42:43.251
an objective by 0.1% or a

00:42:43.391 --> 00:42:44.371
thousand injective.

00:42:45.472 --> 00:42:50.257
So $40,000, right?

00:42:50.556 --> 00:42:51.117
Plus or minus.

00:42:51.137 --> 00:42:52.458
So that one was fun because

00:42:52.518 --> 00:42:54.739
it was like three days after they, um,

00:42:55.831 --> 00:42:56.871
they did the whole steak for

00:42:56.911 --> 00:42:57.632
airdrop thing.

00:42:57.891 --> 00:42:58.652
And then they went up to

00:42:58.672 --> 00:43:00.054
like top 10 and then they

00:43:00.094 --> 00:43:01.114
immediately got slashed.

00:43:01.574 --> 00:43:05.998
I was like, Rufus steak is so fucking good,

00:43:06.038 --> 00:43:06.137
dude.

00:43:06.157 --> 00:43:06.358
These are,

00:43:06.498 --> 00:43:07.259
these are the papers you should

00:43:07.278 --> 00:43:07.639
be writing.

00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:08.739
I mean,

00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:10.561
actually I need to go revisit one

00:43:10.581 --> 00:43:11.862
of my chapters and say, look,

00:43:12.543 --> 00:43:13.523
Although this might not

00:43:13.623 --> 00:43:14.824
actually be a good way of

00:43:14.884 --> 00:43:15.905
securing finality.

00:43:16.684 --> 00:43:18.626
It does give my colleague

00:43:18.706 --> 00:43:22.648
usurper a real good chuckle on the way.

00:43:23.047 --> 00:43:23.447
You know what?

00:43:23.487 --> 00:43:25.088
This is fine.

00:43:25.108 --> 00:43:25.690
This is fine.

00:43:25.710 --> 00:43:27.449
We should use it for all stable coins.

00:43:27.510 --> 00:43:29.050
Put every national currency.

00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:30.172
Let's go.

00:43:30.192 --> 00:43:32.373
Let's start getting slashed.

00:43:32.873 --> 00:43:35.313
Just the idea of like a

00:43:35.494 --> 00:43:37.175
brand setting like a 0% to

00:43:37.175 --> 00:43:39.217
2025 or whatever the fuck

00:43:39.336 --> 00:43:42.057
stupid bullshit boost drop TM, TM,

00:43:42.117 --> 00:43:43.679
TM type of thing.

00:43:43.798 --> 00:43:46.521
And then rocketing up to the

00:43:46.581 --> 00:43:47.820
top based on some sort of

00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:49.422
0% commission type of thing

00:43:49.461 --> 00:43:50.443
or some zero give back.

00:43:50.623 --> 00:43:53.844
And then getting slashed is just like, oh,

00:43:54.324 --> 00:43:56.545
that is so it's fucking perfect.

00:43:56.585 --> 00:43:56.766
Right?

00:43:56.927 --> 00:43:57.746
It's a stake.

00:43:57.806 --> 00:43:59.168
It's a stake like most situation,

00:43:59.208 --> 00:43:59.487
isn't it?

00:43:59.889 --> 00:44:02.110
It is just, yeah.

00:44:02.269 --> 00:44:05.951
Slash like Mo.

00:44:05.990 --> 00:44:07.070
There's something beautiful about it.

00:44:07.170 --> 00:44:10.612
It's like the Web3 version

00:44:10.672 --> 00:44:12.452
of the Mona Lisa.

00:44:12.572 --> 00:44:13.612
I don't know what it is.

00:44:15.293 --> 00:44:18.112
In the UK, slash is slang for piss.

00:44:19.092 --> 00:44:20.414
So whenever everybody's

00:44:20.454 --> 00:44:22.114
talking about slashing, you're just like,

00:44:23.373 --> 00:44:25.574
all your brain can hear is pissing.

00:44:25.594 --> 00:44:27.215
People are just like, oh,

00:44:27.235 --> 00:44:27.954
somebody got slashed.

00:44:28.014 --> 00:44:28.335
It's like,

00:44:29.465 --> 00:44:31.005
they're pissing pissing

00:44:31.045 --> 00:44:32.728
willingly there's something

00:44:32.947 --> 00:44:34.949
somebody's urinating is

00:44:34.969 --> 00:44:36.592
there urination happening

00:44:36.711 --> 00:44:38.552
like there's always just

00:44:38.592 --> 00:44:39.454
like a split second where

00:44:39.474 --> 00:44:41.016
your brain's like you don't

00:44:41.056 --> 00:44:42.516
normally conjugate the word

00:44:42.577 --> 00:44:45.940
slash like that um but yeah

00:44:46.621 --> 00:44:47.902
why is injected 40 dollars

00:44:49.043 --> 00:44:50.364
good question that is a

00:44:50.384 --> 00:44:54.867
very good question and that's the answer

00:44:55.717 --> 00:44:57.077
Yeah.

00:44:57.398 --> 00:44:57.677
Okay.

00:44:58.137 --> 00:44:58.438
It's good.

00:44:58.617 --> 00:44:59.797
I'm glad you guys are in it, but.

00:45:01.378 --> 00:45:01.798
We don't run.

00:45:01.878 --> 00:45:02.278
We don't run.

00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:02.960
We don't run.

00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:04.360
Well, I think it's the Schultz.

00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:05.460
Schultz does.

00:45:05.860 --> 00:45:06.201
Null does.

00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:07.760
Oh, look at.

00:45:08.121 --> 00:45:08.300
Yeah.

00:45:08.380 --> 00:45:10.902
Oni for stake for bootstrap TM, TM, TM.

00:45:12.123 --> 00:45:13.043
Fucking perfect.

00:45:13.123 --> 00:45:13.563
I love it.

00:45:15.143 --> 00:45:15.364
Yeah.

00:45:16.003 --> 00:45:16.304
I mean.

00:45:16.844 --> 00:45:17.804
I got to register TM.

00:45:17.905 --> 00:45:18.864
I got to register bootstrap.

00:45:19.085 --> 00:45:19.625
How much is that?

00:45:19.644 --> 00:45:20.525
I can do that right now.

00:45:21.670 --> 00:45:23.510
And then really aggressively

00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:25.672
pursue litigation.

00:45:25.893 --> 00:45:29.715
Oh, hang on.

00:45:30.657 --> 00:45:31.056
Hello.

00:45:31.277 --> 00:45:31.717
Hello.

00:45:31.737 --> 00:45:33.739
You might as well trademark airdrop,

00:45:33.759 --> 00:45:34.039
right?

00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:35.701
Oh, that has to be true.

00:45:35.740 --> 00:45:36.641
Really pursue people.

00:45:36.681 --> 00:45:38.161
Wouldn't that be amazing?

00:45:38.202 --> 00:45:39.362
That'd be, that's like perfect.

00:45:40.023 --> 00:45:41.625
Just making enemies everywhere.

00:45:43.065 --> 00:45:43.206
Well,

00:45:43.226 --> 00:45:44.626
then you could be like the airdrop

00:45:44.666 --> 00:45:45.827
was invented by Rhino.

00:45:47.228 --> 00:45:47.389
Yeah.

00:45:49.896 --> 00:45:51.097
uh that's like three pete

00:45:51.137 --> 00:45:52.159
right that's who owns that

00:45:52.219 --> 00:45:55.621
cuban no uh who's a coach

00:45:55.641 --> 00:46:00.146
for the lakers um pat riley

00:46:00.186 --> 00:46:02.086
owns that right he so when

00:46:02.106 --> 00:46:03.068
three when the bulls won

00:46:03.088 --> 00:46:04.128
three in a row back in the

00:46:04.148 --> 00:46:05.530
90s and then pat I think

00:46:05.550 --> 00:46:06.550
it's pat riley somebody can

00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:08.072
correct me but I'm sure in

00:46:08.112 --> 00:46:09.393
a chat we'll do this but

00:46:09.413 --> 00:46:10.753
the pat riley then then I

00:46:10.795 --> 00:46:11.735
think the three pete word

00:46:11.775 --> 00:46:12.576
came out and then he

00:46:12.655 --> 00:46:13.597
trademarked three pete

00:46:14.382 --> 00:46:15.083
Like when the Bulls run

00:46:15.103 --> 00:46:15.804
three in a row and he

00:46:15.864 --> 00:46:16.643
trademarked three feet and

00:46:16.664 --> 00:46:17.505
then he owns like and then

00:46:17.525 --> 00:46:18.686
he took like a fucking ton

00:46:18.726 --> 00:46:19.585
of rewards off that,

00:46:19.626 --> 00:46:21.907
like just from licensing of

00:46:21.927 --> 00:46:24.009
all these fucking bullshit

00:46:24.088 --> 00:46:24.969
shirts and whatever else.

00:46:26.710 --> 00:46:27.150
Gotta love it.

00:46:27.771 --> 00:46:28.992
Hey, the game of the player.

00:46:29.012 --> 00:46:29.932
It's smart.

00:46:31.666 --> 00:46:34.289
Hey, speaking of copyright trolling,

00:46:34.309 --> 00:46:36.550
I don't know if you saw,

00:46:36.650 --> 00:46:39.432
but a man in a wig in

00:46:39.512 --> 00:46:43.076
England has handed down a verdict that,

00:46:43.577 --> 00:46:44.056
what's his name?

00:46:44.097 --> 00:46:45.858
Craig Wright is not fucking Satoshi.

00:46:47.059 --> 00:46:50.420
Um, so because he's,

00:46:50.581 --> 00:46:52.481
he's been really litigious, right?

00:46:52.501 --> 00:46:54.943
So he, because of the British libel law,

00:46:55.003 --> 00:46:55.963
he's been basically using

00:46:56.284 --> 00:46:58.346
the British courts to go

00:46:58.445 --> 00:46:59.887
after people and then to

00:46:59.947 --> 00:47:03.108
assert his right to, um, you know,

00:47:03.128 --> 00:47:04.409
the software to, uh,

00:47:05.050 --> 00:47:06.469
licensing to all sorts of other shit.

00:47:06.530 --> 00:47:06.670
Right.

00:47:07.990 --> 00:47:11.373
um and uh yeah a judge here

00:47:11.413 --> 00:47:12.594
has just basically thrown

00:47:12.634 --> 00:47:13.833
it all out that's what

00:47:13.853 --> 00:47:14.675
happened in the last week

00:47:15.375 --> 00:47:17.376
he's just gone look okay uh

00:47:17.635 --> 00:47:19.237
the statement is is worth

00:47:19.317 --> 00:47:20.878
reading actually just that

00:47:20.938 --> 00:47:21.818
just the headline of it

00:47:21.858 --> 00:47:23.119
because it's quite it's

00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:24.340
like as larry as a judge

00:47:24.380 --> 00:47:25.860
can get when they're they

00:47:25.900 --> 00:47:28.001
basically want to say off

00:47:28.061 --> 00:47:28.862
mate we know you're not

00:47:28.902 --> 00:47:30.844
satoshi but they are

00:47:31.704 --> 00:47:33.585
a judge of some standing and

00:47:33.646 --> 00:47:35.248
so they have to say

00:47:35.307 --> 00:47:36.610
something in in kind of

00:47:36.690 --> 00:47:40.152
legalese um but I'll go

00:47:40.213 --> 00:47:41.014
find it I'll go find it

00:47:41.054 --> 00:47:43.516
it's worth it is there a

00:47:43.536 --> 00:47:44.237
powder wig involved

00:47:47.653 --> 00:47:49.193
I think the judges have wigs.

00:47:49.353 --> 00:47:50.094
There has to be, right?

00:47:50.135 --> 00:47:52.315
It's powdered.

00:47:52.474 --> 00:47:55.275
I know the Queen's Councils have wigs,

00:47:55.335 --> 00:47:55.795
obviously.

00:47:56.056 --> 00:47:57.496
That's like a given.

00:47:57.637 --> 00:47:59.577
But I think it's only normal

00:47:59.597 --> 00:48:00.976
solicitors that don't have wigs.

00:48:03.097 --> 00:48:06.518
But I assume judges in the UK wear wigs,

00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:08.139
but I need to double check.

00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.260
I do not know that.

00:48:15.403 --> 00:48:15.983
And don't say the word

00:48:16.103 --> 00:48:16.923
obviously when it comes to

00:48:16.963 --> 00:48:17.965
who's wearing wigs or not

00:48:18.005 --> 00:48:20.324
in the judicial structure of the UK.

00:48:21.284 --> 00:48:22.065
Yeah, okay, fair enough.

00:48:22.804 --> 00:48:24.065
The reason I don't know is

00:48:24.146 --> 00:48:25.706
because I've never been up

00:48:25.746 --> 00:48:26.925
in front of a judge, you said,

00:48:26.945 --> 00:48:29.547
but because contrary to our

00:48:29.567 --> 00:48:30.586
stickers and t-shirts,

00:48:30.626 --> 00:48:32.746
we're not going to jail yet.

00:48:33.288 --> 00:48:35.708
Depends on how long you're

00:48:35.728 --> 00:48:36.367
in that elevator.

00:48:37.347 --> 00:48:39.148
I took you for way more punk than you are,

00:48:39.168 --> 00:48:39.648
apparently.

00:48:41.048 --> 00:48:42.708
You and Jake Wolf.

00:48:42.809 --> 00:48:43.710
Not a drunken church?

00:48:43.789 --> 00:48:44.030
Nothing?

00:48:44.050 --> 00:48:44.570
I didn't.

00:48:45.918 --> 00:48:46.701
You don't get caught.

00:48:46.740 --> 00:48:47.202
Graffiti?

00:48:47.222 --> 00:48:49.425
You don't get caught.

00:48:49.445 --> 00:48:51.289
You don't get caught.

00:48:51.309 --> 00:48:52.813
I've never had a caution, even.

00:48:53.835 --> 00:48:54.195
I've been stopped.

00:48:54.215 --> 00:48:54.797
Never been arrested?

00:48:55.018 --> 00:48:55.980
No, never in cuffs.

00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:56.740
Have you ever been in cuffs?

00:48:59.152 --> 00:49:00.472
I have been stopped in the

00:49:00.512 --> 00:49:01.434
middle of the night and

00:49:01.653 --> 00:49:03.355
asked why I had a muddy

00:49:03.394 --> 00:49:09.219
shovel by the police.

00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:12.641
And I can only conclude that

00:49:12.681 --> 00:49:13.822
my answer was good enough

00:49:14.222 --> 00:49:16.143
that there was nothing

00:49:16.224 --> 00:49:17.824
suspicious about my behavior.

00:49:17.844 --> 00:49:18.525
Just burying some shit.

00:49:20.206 --> 00:49:20.706
I don't know, man.

00:49:20.726 --> 00:49:22.128
Why don't you have a muddy shovel?

00:49:23.128 --> 00:49:23.409
Yeah.

00:49:24.806 --> 00:49:26.407
Let's do so around Robin,

00:49:26.447 --> 00:49:28.389
like of other folks that we know,

00:49:28.510 --> 00:49:29.431
like in the cosmos,

00:49:29.490 --> 00:49:31.112
who's been in cuffs at least one time.

00:49:35.376 --> 00:49:35.735
Rama.

00:49:37.157 --> 00:49:37.476
Hmm.

00:49:38.818 --> 00:49:39.259
I think so.

00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:42.061
Jake.

00:49:44.762 --> 00:49:45.724
I think a block pain.

00:49:49.387 --> 00:49:49.766
I might be.

00:49:49.806 --> 00:49:50.407
I've been in once.

00:49:51.007 --> 00:49:51.387
Just once.

00:49:53.590 --> 00:49:53.951
I haven't.

00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:54.490
I haven't.

00:49:55.460 --> 00:49:55.659
No.

00:49:56.021 --> 00:49:56.280
No?

00:49:57.101 --> 00:49:57.661
Definitely, right?

00:49:57.940 --> 00:49:58.521
At least one time.

00:49:59.181 --> 00:50:00.041
Bar fight or something.

00:50:00.422 --> 00:50:00.842
Bar fight?

00:50:01.902 --> 00:50:02.744
Throwing a bottle out in the

00:50:02.764 --> 00:50:03.664
yabba something?

00:50:04.563 --> 00:50:05.244
Out in the yabba.

00:50:07.565 --> 00:50:08.987
Wait, so when were you in cuffs?

00:50:10.266 --> 00:50:11.027
That's a different story.

00:50:11.047 --> 00:50:11.907
That's a different podcast.

00:50:15.530 --> 00:50:17.349
That's a different podcast.

00:50:17.389 --> 00:50:18.110
That's the getting pissed

00:50:18.130 --> 00:50:18.831
with you circle podcast.

00:50:18.891 --> 00:50:19.972
It was a long time ago.

00:50:20.692 --> 00:50:21.692
He's just taking a slash

00:50:21.733 --> 00:50:22.512
against the cop car.

00:50:23.021 --> 00:50:24.882
Just a little, just a little something.

00:50:24.902 --> 00:50:26.581
Just taking a little slash of Rooney.

00:50:27.742 --> 00:50:31.463
Jake says, I know how to talk to cops.

00:50:32.844 --> 00:50:33.905
That means you know how to get out of it.

00:50:33.965 --> 00:50:34.304
That's right.

00:50:34.704 --> 00:50:36.065
That's an important skill, actually,

00:50:36.806 --> 00:50:37.925
is to know exactly how to

00:50:38.226 --> 00:50:39.126
get out of that situation.

00:50:39.626 --> 00:50:40.106
What to say.

00:50:40.367 --> 00:50:41.726
Why you have a muddy shovel

00:50:41.766 --> 00:50:42.427
in the middle of the night

00:50:42.748 --> 00:50:43.628
standing next to a hole.

00:50:44.588 --> 00:50:45.969
I mean, in the UK,

00:50:45.989 --> 00:50:47.550
I think your ability to get

00:50:47.610 --> 00:50:49.072
out of a situation is very

00:50:49.152 --> 00:50:52.213
positively correlated with

00:50:52.713 --> 00:50:57.797
how posh you can sound on demand,

00:50:59.036 --> 00:51:00.958
no matter the situation that you're in.

00:51:01.179 --> 00:51:04.099
Like if you are in the

00:51:04.139 --> 00:51:05.240
middle of the countryside

00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:06.402
with a shovel on your way

00:51:06.442 --> 00:51:08.222
back into a city covered in mud.

00:51:08.242 --> 00:51:08.422
Yeah.

00:51:11.626 --> 00:51:13.307
if you can come up with a

00:51:13.367 --> 00:51:15.088
kind of befuddled Hugh

00:51:15.108 --> 00:51:20.951
Grant noise and then a vaguely officer,

00:51:23.791 --> 00:51:26.632
you know, well, and then, and then,

00:51:26.652 --> 00:51:28.213
you know, on the way back from the pub,

00:51:28.554 --> 00:51:30.815
it's just, oh dear.

00:51:31.476 --> 00:51:33.135
It's just all terribly confusing,

00:51:33.155 --> 00:51:34.416
but I shouldn't keep you any longer.

00:51:35.317 --> 00:51:36.297
uh you I'm sure you've got

00:51:36.318 --> 00:51:37.057
I'm sure you've got

00:51:37.097 --> 00:51:38.438
retrobates to be chasing

00:51:38.478 --> 00:51:40.701
down to be chasing down um

00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:41.802
but I'll just be I'll just

00:51:41.822 --> 00:51:43.242
be taking my myself home to

00:51:43.282 --> 00:51:44.943
bed now if that's what you

00:51:47.224 --> 00:51:48.146
just make noise you just

00:51:48.186 --> 00:51:49.827
make noise make noise you

00:51:49.847 --> 00:51:52.568
see you see officer there

00:51:52.648 --> 00:51:53.929
there was a bat that was

00:51:54.030 --> 00:51:55.951
flying around and so I ran

00:51:56.010 --> 00:51:57.012
over and grabbed the shovel

00:51:57.052 --> 00:51:58.313
and now I must defend myself

00:51:59.655 --> 00:52:01.197
A friend of mine actually

00:52:01.817 --> 00:52:04.117
essentially did that when

00:52:04.838 --> 00:52:06.199
we were at a gig in London

00:52:06.579 --> 00:52:10.280
and we ran into outside.

00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:11.541
The band was just smoking

00:52:11.581 --> 00:52:12.981
outside while the headliner played.

00:52:13.001 --> 00:52:18.204
And one of my friends, his favorite band,

00:52:19.525 --> 00:52:22.005
just saw an urban fox run

00:52:22.045 --> 00:52:23.226
across the road at the end

00:52:23.266 --> 00:52:24.206
of the road and just

00:52:24.286 --> 00:52:27.248
fucking ran off to chase the fox.

00:52:28.208 --> 00:52:29.108
while his favorite band were

00:52:29.128 --> 00:52:30.108
just there and we just

00:52:30.188 --> 00:52:30.989
asked them about how they'd

00:52:31.028 --> 00:52:32.050
written like this song on

00:52:32.070 --> 00:52:32.710
their new album and they're

00:52:32.730 --> 00:52:33.771
like oh yeah fucking nobody

00:52:33.811 --> 00:52:34.510
asked about the song that's

00:52:34.530 --> 00:52:35.692
great man and then they

00:52:35.711 --> 00:52:36.452
were just talking and

00:52:36.731 --> 00:52:38.253
they're just like you met

00:52:38.313 --> 00:52:39.393
your mates just fucking

00:52:39.594 --> 00:52:41.253
he's just fucking he's just

00:52:41.293 --> 00:52:43.215
fucking liked it lads is he

00:52:43.275 --> 00:52:45.436
all right and you're like I

00:52:45.476 --> 00:52:48.137
have no fucking clue what

00:52:48.177 --> 00:52:49.257
he's doing he loves your

00:52:49.277 --> 00:52:51.039
band and they're like he

00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:52.199
looks like he's chasing a fox

00:52:53.755 --> 00:52:56.016
It's like an oddly spider's app.

00:52:58.496 --> 00:52:59.976
I think he's chasing a fox.

00:53:00.237 --> 00:53:00.856
It's just a fox.

00:53:01.677 --> 00:53:02.597
It's just a fox.

00:53:03.358 --> 00:53:03.998
What would you do if you

00:53:04.038 --> 00:53:04.679
weren't in a band?

00:53:05.298 --> 00:53:06.579
I think I'd be a fox catcher.

00:53:06.898 --> 00:53:07.159
No.

00:53:07.739 --> 00:53:08.099
What is it?

00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:10.639
I think I'd work in haberdashers,

00:53:10.780 --> 00:53:11.101
isn't it?

00:53:11.161 --> 00:53:11.740
That's the other one.

00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:12.161
Haberdasher.

00:53:12.221 --> 00:53:12.541
I think.

00:53:14.202 --> 00:53:14.742
Would you like that?

00:53:14.862 --> 00:53:15.222
I don't know.

00:53:15.262 --> 00:53:15.922
What are the hours?

00:53:16.342 --> 00:53:17.402
What are the hours?

00:53:18.262 --> 00:53:18.922
What size are you?

00:53:19.543 --> 00:53:20.184
What size are you?

00:53:20.724 --> 00:53:21.483
I think we have that.

00:53:22.244 --> 00:53:23.525
I think we have that at your size.

00:53:23.764 --> 00:53:24.465
I think we have that.

00:53:25.246 --> 00:53:25.947
Would you like to do that?

00:53:26.186 --> 00:53:26.527
I don't know.

00:53:26.567 --> 00:53:27.128
What are the hours?

00:53:28.568 --> 00:53:28.768
God.

00:53:28.789 --> 00:53:31.411
I'm a bit worried about Spinal Tap 2.

00:53:31.570 --> 00:53:32.331
I don't think anything good

00:53:32.351 --> 00:53:32.851
can come of it.

00:53:33.253 --> 00:53:34.753
Wait, is there a Spinal Tap 2 coming?

00:53:34.994 --> 00:53:36.014
Is a Spinal Tap 2 coming?

00:53:36.534 --> 00:53:37.936
No.

00:53:38.295 --> 00:53:38.677
Really?

00:53:38.697 --> 00:53:39.737
The thing is, there is.

00:53:40.177 --> 00:53:40.757
Who's involved?

00:53:40.777 --> 00:53:42.539
It's the original cast.

00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:43.721
Oh, it is?

00:53:43.740 --> 00:53:44.581
Yeah.

00:53:44.721 --> 00:53:44.942
Really?

00:53:44.961 --> 00:53:46.623
No shit.

00:53:46.682 --> 00:53:47.744
Is Meathead involved?

00:53:48.621 --> 00:53:50.001
The thing that makes me

00:53:50.181 --> 00:53:51.222
think it might not be a

00:53:51.262 --> 00:53:56.206
total disaster is that, um, uh,

00:53:56.306 --> 00:53:57.186
Christopher guest has

00:53:57.246 --> 00:53:58.588
written a lot of good films

00:53:58.809 --> 00:53:59.389
over the years.

00:54:00.570 --> 00:54:00.849
Yeah.

00:54:00.889 --> 00:54:04.452
Like, like best show, uh, mighty wind,

00:54:04.733 --> 00:54:06.054
you know, and mighty wind.

00:54:06.313 --> 00:54:10.237
Um, uh, what's the, uh, best in show.

00:54:10.277 --> 00:54:10.456
Yeah.

00:54:10.496 --> 00:54:10.697
Sorry.

00:54:10.717 --> 00:54:11.378
You said that.

00:54:11.418 --> 00:54:11.657
Yeah.

00:54:11.677 --> 00:54:12.559
So, but mighty wind,

00:54:12.579 --> 00:54:13.559
which is much more recent

00:54:13.579 --> 00:54:14.179
for government app.

00:54:14.969 --> 00:54:16.389
Yeah, but Mighty Women,

00:54:16.409 --> 00:54:17.731
which is much more recent than Spinal Tap,

00:54:17.791 --> 00:54:19.172
was also about music and

00:54:19.291 --> 00:54:20.291
also had the three of them

00:54:20.333 --> 00:54:22.293
in it playing a folk band,

00:54:22.414 --> 00:54:23.173
and they were brilliant.

00:54:23.855 --> 00:54:25.175
And they were just like a befuddled,

00:54:25.275 --> 00:54:27.137
retired folk musicians who

00:54:27.177 --> 00:54:30.059
were just like doing that standard, like,

00:54:30.139 --> 00:54:30.338
oh, yeah,

00:54:30.358 --> 00:54:31.340
and of course in the village in

00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:32.981
those days, you know,

00:54:33.001 --> 00:54:34.702
we hung out a lot with Dylan.

00:54:35.041 --> 00:54:36.083
And it was just like, you were like,

00:54:36.422 --> 00:54:37.342
these guys have still got it.

00:54:37.403 --> 00:54:39.204
They're just effortlessly hilarious.

00:54:39.724 --> 00:54:42.126
So, oh, so Rob Reiner is involved.

00:54:43.057 --> 00:54:44.338
So is Harry, Michael, and Christopher.

00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:45.599
Paul McCartney's in it.

00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:46.579
Elton John is in it.

00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:48.981
Garth Brooks and Questlove.

00:54:50.161 --> 00:54:51.083
I love Questlove, by the way.

00:54:52.282 --> 00:54:52.463
Yeah.

00:54:53.344 --> 00:54:54.585
That's actually, okay.

00:54:55.085 --> 00:54:56.846
I mean, if Christopher Guest is writing,

00:54:57.365 --> 00:54:58.146
it might be okay.

00:54:58.407 --> 00:54:59.027
It might be okay.

00:54:59.927 --> 00:55:00.088
Right?

00:55:00.128 --> 00:55:00.688
Like they're like,

00:55:01.836 --> 00:55:03.099
They're not going to do it to do it.

00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:04.300
They're going to do it right.

00:55:05.501 --> 00:55:06.063
It would be very,

00:55:06.123 --> 00:55:07.043
very funny if it's

00:55:07.103 --> 00:55:09.967
basically like 60-year-old rockers.

00:55:09.987 --> 00:55:11.329
They're completely,

00:55:11.550 --> 00:55:13.032
utterly irrelevant at this point.

00:55:13.693 --> 00:55:14.454
Because that was already the

00:55:14.514 --> 00:55:15.476
joke in the first one.

00:55:15.496 --> 00:55:16.657
I don't know.

00:55:16.677 --> 00:55:17.518
Where are they going to take it?

00:55:17.579 --> 00:55:17.659
They...

00:55:19.121 --> 00:55:21.601
ah I don't know when is this

00:55:21.663 --> 00:55:24.204
coming out um rama says I

00:55:24.244 --> 00:55:25.644
haven't been in cuffs but I

00:55:25.684 --> 00:55:27.246
would rejoinder that your

00:55:27.286 --> 00:55:28.286
grandparents might have

00:55:28.327 --> 00:55:35.391
been oh wow um hey look in

00:55:35.411 --> 00:55:36.652
fairness most of the people

00:55:36.672 --> 00:55:38.293
that were transported to

00:55:38.532 --> 00:55:40.554
australia were transported

00:55:40.733 --> 00:55:42.215
on quite spurious grounds

00:55:42.434 --> 00:55:44.195
for minor crimes and

00:55:44.215 --> 00:55:45.157
infractions that were

00:55:45.197 --> 00:55:47.057
largely about I don't know

00:55:47.097 --> 00:55:48.838
just arbitrary kind of um

00:55:50.646 --> 00:55:51.047
Yeah, you know,

00:55:51.067 --> 00:55:52.889
like rustle a sheep or poach something.

00:55:52.949 --> 00:55:54.711
It's like transportation for you.

00:55:54.731 --> 00:55:59.360
It doesn't really make a lot

00:55:59.380 --> 00:55:59.960
of sense to me.

00:56:00.001 --> 00:56:01.001
Transportation is just such

00:56:01.021 --> 00:56:02.525
a baffling punishment.

00:56:04.570 --> 00:56:05.751
god damn it I'm sure

00:56:05.791 --> 00:56:06.753
somebody needs to write it

00:56:06.932 --> 00:56:07.974
right I'm sure there are a

00:56:08.014 --> 00:56:08.974
thousand papers that have

00:56:08.994 --> 00:56:10.135
been written on what the

00:56:10.175 --> 00:56:11.115
was going on with that but

00:56:11.175 --> 00:56:11.996
it's such a baffling

00:56:12.036 --> 00:56:13.577
punishment it's like yeah

00:56:13.597 --> 00:56:14.157
just we're just going to

00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:16.039
take you to the other side

00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:17.139
of the planet and you're

00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:18.641
somebody else's problem I

00:56:18.661 --> 00:56:19.661
kind of went from pure

00:56:19.722 --> 00:56:21.804
dread to actual looking

00:56:21.864 --> 00:56:26.686
forward to this well it's

00:56:26.726 --> 00:56:27.407
got the right people

00:56:27.447 --> 00:56:29.289
involved reiner's writing

00:56:29.329 --> 00:56:30.269
it and he's directing it

00:56:30.429 --> 00:56:32.271
like it has the makings of

00:56:33.188 --> 00:56:34.688
doing something fun, right.

00:56:34.748 --> 00:56:35.710
And doing something right.

00:56:36.329 --> 00:56:38.391
And so I'm kind of excited about that.

00:56:38.411 --> 00:56:40.532
You know what I mean?

00:56:40.954 --> 00:56:42.195
I guess it's a bit, I guess it's like,

00:56:42.215 --> 00:56:43.074
what's the hook though?

00:56:43.155 --> 00:56:43.516
Cause the,

00:56:43.556 --> 00:56:45.056
the hook of the original was the

00:56:45.117 --> 00:56:46.378
band was over and they

00:56:46.418 --> 00:56:47.818
didn't even know it was over.

00:56:48.259 --> 00:56:50.960
And that, that gave it a really like,

00:56:51.601 --> 00:56:52.541
it's a very funny film.

00:56:52.561 --> 00:56:53.822
It's a very daft residing in

00:56:53.882 --> 00:56:55.244
the where are they now file.

00:56:56.025 --> 00:56:57.144
Like it's like,

00:56:57.164 --> 00:56:58.827
it's given that you're not

00:56:58.867 --> 00:57:00.268
even supposed to really like them.

00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:03.681
you or you're not supposed I

00:57:04.240 --> 00:57:05.181
don't know you are supposed

00:57:05.222 --> 00:57:06.021
to like them but you're

00:57:06.041 --> 00:57:06.983
also not supposed to like

00:57:07.043 --> 00:57:08.523
them but there is like an

00:57:08.583 --> 00:57:12.045
emotional arc to it you

00:57:12.085 --> 00:57:13.945
know and I and that would

00:57:13.965 --> 00:57:15.186
be my question like I i

00:57:15.867 --> 00:57:16.927
they could so easily screw

00:57:16.967 --> 00:57:18.188
that up and then you just

00:57:18.228 --> 00:57:19.248
be like but I love these

00:57:19.288 --> 00:57:20.588
characters in there but you

00:57:20.608 --> 00:57:21.728
still love I mean you still

00:57:21.748 --> 00:57:22.710
love the original one so it

00:57:22.730 --> 00:57:23.650
doesn't take anything away

00:57:23.670 --> 00:57:24.791
from that I mean there's

00:57:24.851 --> 00:57:25.710
there's plenty of sequels

00:57:25.731 --> 00:57:27.371
that have so fucked up that

00:57:27.552 --> 00:57:29.353
you still enjoy the original right so

00:57:30.117 --> 00:57:30.197
Hey,

00:57:30.237 --> 00:57:32.177
do you know how many sequels there are

00:57:32.197 --> 00:57:33.277
to Starship Troopers?

00:57:35.438 --> 00:57:35.617
Wait,

00:57:35.637 --> 00:57:37.278
there are sequels to Starship Troopers?

00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:38.619
A lot, yes.

00:57:39.998 --> 00:57:40.418
Really?

00:57:40.438 --> 00:57:42.900
Yep.

00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:44.159
I'm not sure how many of the

00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:46.081
actual named actors

00:57:46.201 --> 00:57:47.860
returned in any of those sequels,

00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:48.740
but I think there's like

00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:51.561
two or three sequels to the film,

00:57:53.402 --> 00:57:55.382
like direct-to-DVD type situations.

00:57:57.793 --> 00:57:58.954
I mean, actually, to be fair,

00:57:59.775 --> 00:58:00.655
even really recently,

00:58:00.675 --> 00:58:01.996
I think about something like Pacific Rim.

00:58:02.257 --> 00:58:05.458
Pacific Rim was like Guillermo del Toro,

00:58:05.498 --> 00:58:05.739
wasn't it?

00:58:05.780 --> 00:58:07.760
Like, real serious director.

00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.443
It's like, I want to make the best film

00:58:11.327 --> 00:58:13.128
that I can make about a big

00:58:13.188 --> 00:58:14.889
robot punching a big

00:58:14.969 --> 00:58:17.110
monster and I am an

00:58:17.170 --> 00:58:19.670
artistic genius so this is

00:58:19.710 --> 00:58:21.471
going to be a genius robot

00:58:22.072 --> 00:58:24.271
punching a genius monster

00:58:24.893 --> 00:58:26.152
with great cinematography

00:58:26.452 --> 00:58:27.152
that's what I'm going to do

00:58:27.172 --> 00:58:28.673
that's my vision to you and

00:58:28.693 --> 00:58:29.693
then like the silence in

00:58:29.713 --> 00:58:30.474
the pitch room and they're

00:58:30.494 --> 00:58:34.016
just like you you want to

00:58:34.255 --> 00:58:35.115
you want to do a punchy

00:58:35.155 --> 00:58:37.476
robot film yeah you want you you want

00:58:38.860 --> 00:58:40.882
seven out of ten on imdb

00:58:41.643 --> 00:58:42.485
because the thing is it

00:58:42.505 --> 00:58:43.786
works I've never seen this

00:58:43.806 --> 00:58:45.327
it was it was fun I enjoyed

00:58:45.387 --> 00:58:46.588
it you've not seen it sir

00:58:46.728 --> 00:58:47.789
I've not seen I've not seen

00:58:47.809 --> 00:58:49.130
pacific right now you show

00:58:49.150 --> 00:58:49.751
it show it to your boys

00:58:49.771 --> 00:58:51.271
they'll love it it's giant

00:58:51.311 --> 00:58:52.233
robots the size of

00:58:52.273 --> 00:58:54.335
skyscrapers punch is it as

00:58:54.355 --> 00:58:56.476
good as robot jocks it's

00:58:56.516 --> 00:58:57.538
just it's have you ever

00:58:57.557 --> 00:58:59.159
seen robot jocks it's just

00:58:59.219 --> 00:59:00.300
it's just a great punching

00:59:00.340 --> 00:59:02.141
robot movie I don't want to

00:59:02.161 --> 00:59:03.704
tell you have you ever seen robot jocks

00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:05.681
from the 1980s.

00:59:06.141 --> 00:59:06.382
No.

00:59:06.443 --> 00:59:06.762
Really?

00:59:06.902 --> 00:59:08.364
Oh, shit.

00:59:08.385 --> 00:59:09.867
That is a fucking movie.

00:59:10.568 --> 00:59:10.809
Huh?

00:59:11.208 --> 00:59:11.809
Is this like one of those

00:59:11.849 --> 00:59:14.253
weird science type, you know, like... No,

00:59:14.534 --> 00:59:16.536
it's Robot J-O-X.

00:59:17.670 --> 00:59:19.413
And it's futuristic movie

00:59:19.432 --> 00:59:20.954
about huge giant robots

00:59:21.074 --> 00:59:26.318
that are that are put on this 1989.

00:59:26.318 --> 00:59:26.739
And like,

00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:27.800
I think it's different countries

00:59:27.860 --> 00:59:29.041
or I forget how it actually works,

00:59:29.161 --> 00:59:30.003
like what it's involved.

00:59:30.503 --> 00:59:30.884
And there's like,

00:59:31.264 --> 00:59:32.445
they go like huge

00:59:32.485 --> 00:59:33.686
backstories of the actual

00:59:33.786 --> 00:59:34.847
drivers of the robots.

00:59:35.248 --> 00:59:36.929
And then this is Pacific Rim.

00:59:37.389 --> 00:59:38.570
You're describing Pacific Rim.

00:59:38.958 --> 00:59:40.059
I think maybe it's a remake

00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:41.699
of Robot Shocks.

00:59:41.739 --> 00:59:42.641
Watching the trailer,

00:59:42.780 --> 00:59:46.382
it looks very Pacific Rim.

00:59:46.422 --> 00:59:47.862
Robot Shocks is like, alright,

00:59:47.963 --> 00:59:48.722
that's homework for you guys.

00:59:48.742 --> 00:59:49.923
You have to watch Robot Shocks.

00:59:50.043 --> 00:59:52.864
Literally, amazingly good movie.

00:59:54.045 --> 00:59:55.186
What I mean is horrible,

00:59:55.385 --> 00:59:56.987
but horribly good.

00:59:57.206 --> 00:59:58.286
Great quotes out of that.

00:59:58.306 --> 01:00:01.289
Then we can actually have a

01:00:01.668 --> 01:00:02.688
dialogue around some

01:00:02.728 --> 01:00:03.670
specific Robot Shocks

01:00:03.690 --> 01:00:06.570
specific components.

01:00:07.692 --> 01:00:08.411
I'll put the

01:00:09.139 --> 01:00:09.659
Oh, my God.

01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:11.880
Some of these stills just

01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:12.880
looking at the Google.

01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:13.460
They're amazing.

01:00:13.820 --> 01:00:16.641
Hey, is that thingy in it?

01:00:16.922 --> 01:00:17.222
No.

01:00:18.141 --> 01:00:19.722
That's not Hugo Weaving in it, is it?

01:00:19.742 --> 01:00:22.043
I don't know who that is.

01:00:22.463 --> 01:00:23.204
Surely not.

01:00:23.224 --> 01:00:23.923
I'm going to look it up.

01:00:24.103 --> 01:00:24.844
Do you make that up?

01:00:24.864 --> 01:00:26.465
Speaking of Guillermo del

01:00:26.485 --> 01:00:27.085
Toro and Hugo Weaving.

01:00:30.682 --> 01:00:31.862
I wish that Guillermo Del

01:00:31.882 --> 01:00:33.744
Toro actually went through

01:00:33.784 --> 01:00:34.784
with doing The Hobbit.

01:00:35.204 --> 01:00:36.083
I bet that would have been

01:00:36.143 --> 01:00:38.184
just an absolutely fascinating film.

01:00:38.264 --> 01:00:40.605
But I don't see Hugo Weaving in IMDb.

01:00:41.605 --> 01:00:42.505
No, I don't think so.

01:00:44.905 --> 01:00:45.945
You both have to watch it

01:00:45.965 --> 01:00:47.206
because then we can start

01:00:47.266 --> 01:00:48.286
using some really Robot

01:00:48.465 --> 01:00:49.945
Jocks specific communication.

01:00:49.965 --> 01:00:51.226
Wait a fucking second.

01:00:51.487 --> 01:00:53.226
Robot Jocks was co-written

01:00:53.427 --> 01:00:54.686
by Joe Haldeman.

01:00:55.186 --> 01:00:55.367
Yeah.

01:00:56.487 --> 01:00:56.728
Correct.

01:00:56.768 --> 01:00:58.248
Fucking Joe Haldeman.

01:00:58.268 --> 01:00:59.427
Yeah.

01:01:00.244 --> 01:01:03.949
from joe haldeman one of the

01:01:04.088 --> 01:01:07.012
most important science

01:01:07.052 --> 01:01:09.614
fiction writers of of the

01:01:09.815 --> 01:01:12.297
post war american period he

01:01:12.358 --> 01:01:14.400
wrote he wrote like one

01:01:14.500 --> 01:01:16.983
book and it was 120 pages

01:01:17.063 --> 01:01:18.063
long you can read it in

01:01:18.103 --> 01:01:19.025
like an hour and it's one

01:01:19.045 --> 01:01:19.905
of the best science fiction

01:01:19.925 --> 01:01:21.387
books ever written he wrote

01:01:21.407 --> 01:01:22.048
the forever war

01:01:23.021 --> 01:01:27.204
which is the beginning, along with Henlein,

01:01:27.244 --> 01:01:28.405
with Starship Troopers.

01:01:28.445 --> 01:01:30.927
It's one of the key texts of

01:01:31.728 --> 01:01:32.588
science fiction,

01:01:33.349 --> 01:01:34.550
like military science fiction,

01:01:34.610 --> 01:01:35.492
but also about...

01:01:38.396 --> 01:01:39.076
Because it's obviously about

01:01:39.096 --> 01:01:40.077
the Vietnam War, right?

01:01:40.376 --> 01:01:42.077
It's a story about how a

01:01:42.137 --> 01:01:43.378
soldier goes off to war,

01:01:43.498 --> 01:01:46.418
and because of the effects of relativity,

01:01:46.978 --> 01:01:48.360
when he comes back from the war zone,

01:01:48.380 --> 01:01:49.880
because they use faster-than-light travel,

01:01:50.501 --> 01:01:51.920
the whole of society has moved on,

01:01:51.940 --> 01:01:53.422
and his battle is irrelevant.

01:01:54.663 --> 01:01:55.663
And nobody gives a fuck.

01:01:56.163 --> 01:01:57.784
That sounds like Interstellar.

01:01:59.164 --> 01:01:59.523
Yeah, I mean,

01:01:59.545 --> 01:02:01.644
it's referenced literally everywhere,

01:02:01.844 --> 01:02:02.525
constantly.

01:02:02.545 --> 01:02:05.567
Because he was a physics teacher, I think,

01:02:05.726 --> 01:02:06.447
at a high school,

01:02:06.547 --> 01:02:07.967
and he got conscripted to Vietnam.

01:02:08.755 --> 01:02:11.197
went to Vietnam, did not have a good time,

01:02:11.577 --> 01:02:13.340
came back, wrote The Forever War.

01:02:13.820 --> 01:02:15.782
And it's obviously an

01:02:15.882 --> 01:02:17.083
allegory about Vietnam.

01:02:18.652 --> 01:02:20.675
um it's very short it's very

01:02:20.735 --> 01:02:23.157
brutal um it doesn't waste

01:02:23.217 --> 01:02:24.418
any time it's just an

01:02:24.438 --> 01:02:25.659
incredible incredible book

01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:28.242
but he did write he wrote

01:02:28.302 --> 01:02:29.945
two other books one of them

01:02:30.184 --> 01:02:32.947
was um a slightly strange

01:02:33.047 --> 01:02:34.829
book um which is a sequel

01:02:34.849 --> 01:02:35.570
to the forever war it's

01:02:35.590 --> 01:02:36.632
basically about how what

01:02:36.652 --> 01:02:37.972
they did because all the

01:02:37.992 --> 01:02:39.775
people who there's like a

01:02:39.914 --> 01:02:40.476
there's like a whole

01:02:42.126 --> 01:02:43.847
it's basically, I don't want to spoil it,

01:02:43.867 --> 01:02:46.690
but like it, it's a, okay.

01:02:46.791 --> 01:02:48.813
So it's just basically like the,

01:02:48.873 --> 01:02:50.134
the whole universe is a simulation,

01:02:50.213 --> 01:02:50.373
right?

01:02:50.773 --> 01:02:52.916
That's the sequel to the forever war.

01:02:52.976 --> 01:02:54.097
It's just a thought experiment,

01:02:54.637 --> 01:02:56.159
presumably because he was a

01:02:56.199 --> 01:02:57.621
physicist and he was pretty well read.

01:02:57.661 --> 01:02:58.181
And he was just like,

01:02:58.300 --> 01:02:58.961
I'm just going to write a

01:02:59.001 --> 01:03:00.463
science fiction book based

01:03:00.503 --> 01:03:01.344
in the same universe that

01:03:01.403 --> 01:03:03.005
has that concept.

01:03:03.025 --> 01:03:03.065
Um,

01:03:03.731 --> 01:03:04.913
And then he wrote one more,

01:03:05.032 --> 01:03:06.454
which was about robots

01:03:06.614 --> 01:03:08.195
fighting America's wars,

01:03:08.697 --> 01:03:10.038
which I don't even think

01:03:10.177 --> 01:03:13.221
was published until really recently.

01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:14.621
Like as in they were digging up,

01:03:15.242 --> 01:03:15.742
I think they were doing

01:03:15.782 --> 01:03:17.483
like a 40th anniversary of

01:03:17.503 --> 01:03:18.706
the forever war or something like that.

01:03:18.726 --> 01:03:19.726
I don't even know that that

01:03:19.766 --> 01:03:20.507
was published at the time,

01:03:20.527 --> 01:03:21.887
but then they published

01:03:21.927 --> 01:03:23.369
that book in an anthology with it.

01:03:24.110 --> 01:03:25.652
So I wonder if this is like,

01:03:26.612 --> 01:03:27.873
if this film is like the

01:03:27.934 --> 01:03:28.974
other half of that,

01:03:30.028 --> 01:03:31.250
period where haldeman was

01:03:31.289 --> 01:03:32.329
obviously thinking about

01:03:32.849 --> 01:03:35.271
robots and pilots piloting

01:03:35.331 --> 01:03:36.572
like drone type robots and

01:03:36.612 --> 01:03:38.693
stuff like that it could be

01:03:38.713 --> 01:03:40.114
I also think that it's a

01:03:40.213 --> 01:03:46.556
bit um it's a bit more

01:03:46.657 --> 01:03:47.617
dumbed down than what you

01:03:47.657 --> 01:03:50.438
just mentioned well he's

01:03:50.478 --> 01:03:52.780
only the co-writer I suppose it's a fun

01:03:54.230 --> 01:03:56.012
Oh, yeah, second paragraph,

01:03:56.052 --> 01:03:57.153
Wikipedia article.

01:03:57.635 --> 01:03:59.356
Gordon and Haldeman clashed

01:03:59.476 --> 01:04:00.978
frequently over the

01:04:00.998 --> 01:04:02.780
prospective film's tone and

01:04:02.860 --> 01:04:04.083
its intended audience.

01:04:05.833 --> 01:04:08.175
yeah I'm sure so I think

01:04:08.295 --> 01:04:09.715
possibly possibly you'll be

01:04:09.735 --> 01:04:10.737
able to tell which bits

01:04:10.797 --> 01:04:12.318
were charles which bits

01:04:12.398 --> 01:04:15.199
were that's right so joe

01:04:15.219 --> 01:04:16.340
built this beautiful world

01:04:16.380 --> 01:04:17.019
and then stewart's like

01:04:17.059 --> 01:04:17.661
let's just have these

01:04:17.701 --> 01:04:18.820
robots punch themselves in

01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:19.782
the nuts and we're like all

01:04:19.802 --> 01:04:20.641
right let's do that and

01:04:20.681 --> 01:04:21.702
then like then somebody

01:04:21.742 --> 01:04:23.744
falls out and yeah it's

01:04:23.764 --> 01:04:24.985
kind of it's a fun movie

01:04:25.204 --> 01:04:27.706
actually james from uh

01:04:28.365 --> 01:04:29.447
lavender five robot shots

01:04:29.467 --> 01:04:29.947
is one of my favorite

01:04:29.967 --> 01:04:32.969
movies there you go that's a good

01:04:34.860 --> 01:04:36.320
Shout out from Jake in the

01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:37.601
comments to Forever War.

01:04:37.780 --> 01:04:38.240
It's great.

01:04:38.300 --> 01:04:39.121
There's also a comic.

01:04:39.820 --> 01:04:40.760
I think it's long out of print,

01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:42.461
but there are ways on the

01:04:42.501 --> 01:04:43.601
internet to finding things

01:04:43.641 --> 01:04:44.501
that are out of print and

01:04:44.521 --> 01:04:45.302
getting them for free.

01:04:46.782 --> 01:04:47.001
Really?

01:04:47.842 --> 01:04:50.663
I have placed the Forever

01:04:50.702 --> 01:04:51.902
War on hold on Libby,

01:04:52.282 --> 01:04:53.063
so I'll have it on Kindle

01:04:53.083 --> 01:04:54.623
within the next four weeks.

01:04:56.403 --> 01:04:57.925
There's a backlog even on Forever War?

01:04:58.965 --> 01:04:59.844
There is, yeah.

01:05:01.885 --> 01:05:03.226
fucking backlogs audiobook

01:05:03.286 --> 01:05:04.706
or like or the actual book

01:05:05.927 --> 01:05:07.068
I'm going with actual book

01:05:07.168 --> 01:05:09.309
audiobooks I listen to on

01:05:09.630 --> 01:05:10.829
bike rides but that's about

01:05:10.869 --> 01:05:13.492
it and it's a nine hour

01:05:13.572 --> 01:05:14.711
audiobook and if it's 100

01:05:14.711 --> 01:05:15.873
and some odd pages that's

01:05:15.893 --> 01:05:17.733
too long I haven't read a

01:05:17.773 --> 01:05:19.454
book and it's got to be

01:05:19.494 --> 01:05:20.934
nine hours I'm just I'm

01:05:20.994 --> 01:05:22.155
just listening audio big

01:05:22.195 --> 01:05:24.956
words big text too like I

01:05:24.976 --> 01:05:25.898
mean literally I think

01:05:26.710 --> 01:05:27.650
If you were super pushed,

01:05:27.690 --> 01:05:28.411
you could maybe read The

01:05:28.452 --> 01:05:29.653
Forever War on a lunch break.

01:05:31.235 --> 01:05:32.938
Like, it's not a big book.

01:05:33.798 --> 01:05:34.619
Yeah, if you were just, like,

01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:36.342
really... If you didn't eat your lunch,

01:05:36.402 --> 01:05:37.744
basically, you just sat there going...

01:05:39.672 --> 01:05:39.992
James says,

01:05:40.032 --> 01:05:40.994
you know what doesn't have a backlog?

01:05:41.014 --> 01:05:41.434
Robot Jax.

01:05:41.454 --> 01:05:41.914
That's true.

01:05:42.014 --> 01:05:42.715
It's 100%.

01:05:43.054 --> 01:05:44.775
It's available today on your

01:05:44.795 --> 01:05:46.277
streaming system of choice.

01:05:47.137 --> 01:05:48.677
Great fucking movie.

01:05:48.697 --> 01:05:49.257
Can I say as well,

01:05:49.277 --> 01:05:51.498
we actually slandered Rama earlier,

01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:52.199
apparently.

01:05:52.219 --> 01:05:53.079
I hope so.

01:05:53.739 --> 01:05:55.240
My grandfather escaped

01:05:55.300 --> 01:05:56.121
Hungary when the war

01:05:56.161 --> 01:05:57.882
started and migrated through Italy.

01:05:58.563 --> 01:05:59.402
He's a good boy.

01:06:01.784 --> 01:06:02.324
Which war?

01:06:02.764 --> 01:06:03.606
Grandpa Rama.

01:06:03.985 --> 01:06:04.346
Sorry.

01:06:04.485 --> 01:06:05.106
Which war?

01:06:07.659 --> 01:06:08.721
Presumably the Second World War.

01:06:09.101 --> 01:06:11.422
I would assume so, yeah.

01:06:11.643 --> 01:06:12.905
You know, pretty safe bet.

01:06:14.286 --> 01:06:15.606
Pretty safe bet.

01:06:17.068 --> 01:06:17.527
Well, I mean,

01:06:17.568 --> 01:06:19.150
it could have been the First World War,

01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:19.969
because then, you know,

01:06:19.989 --> 01:06:22.992
that would... But in the First World War,

01:06:23.032 --> 01:06:23.552
you would have had the

01:06:23.612 --> 01:06:25.275
Austro-Hungarian Empire that were quite

01:06:26.255 --> 01:06:29.257
quite cocky and now I think

01:06:29.297 --> 01:06:30.318
about it actually the

01:06:30.418 --> 01:06:31.539
austro-hungarian empire

01:06:31.579 --> 01:06:33.101
were obviously at war with

01:06:33.201 --> 01:06:34.362
italy and there was a very

01:06:34.541 --> 01:06:35.503
fierce fighting on that

01:06:35.583 --> 01:06:36.744
front so you wouldn't have

01:06:36.784 --> 01:06:39.726
escaped from hungary via

01:06:39.827 --> 01:06:40.987
italy because they would

01:06:41.007 --> 01:06:42.248
have been your com your

01:06:42.349 --> 01:06:43.869
enemy in the first world

01:06:43.889 --> 01:06:45.472
war so that probably makes

01:06:45.512 --> 01:06:46.152
it the second world war

01:06:46.512 --> 01:06:47.733
it's so fucking good to not

01:06:47.793 --> 01:06:49.114
talk about the korean war

01:06:49.255 --> 01:06:51.456
maybe the korean war

01:06:52.262 --> 01:06:52.902
That's right.

01:06:53.681 --> 01:06:54.202
The war.

01:06:54.782 --> 01:06:55.222
The war.

01:06:55.302 --> 01:06:56.603
Oh, yes, the Korean War.

01:06:56.643 --> 01:06:58.322
Yes, I know as well.

01:06:58.963 --> 01:06:59.682
What's the film?

01:07:00.704 --> 01:07:01.304
What's the film?

01:07:02.043 --> 01:07:04.304
It's quite old where it's

01:07:04.324 --> 01:07:05.824
about a soldier that gets

01:07:05.884 --> 01:07:07.164
captured in the Korean War

01:07:07.204 --> 01:07:08.304
and they get brainwashed

01:07:09.085 --> 01:07:11.224
and then they're going to

01:07:11.244 --> 01:07:12.126
become the president.

01:07:13.846 --> 01:07:15.025
The Manchurian Candidate.

01:07:15.065 --> 01:07:15.826
That's a good film.

01:07:16.606 --> 01:07:16.965
Oh, yeah.

01:07:17.306 --> 01:07:18.487
There was a remake, I think,

01:07:18.527 --> 01:07:19.246
where it was like

01:07:20.356 --> 01:07:22.958
more recently and it's like

01:07:23.878 --> 01:07:24.878
something something

01:07:24.918 --> 01:07:27.820
something it doesn't really

01:07:27.860 --> 01:07:28.981
make sense I'm not sure it

01:07:29.362 --> 01:07:30.402
makes make I don't think

01:07:30.521 --> 01:07:31.463
the remake made a lot of

01:07:31.503 --> 01:07:32.204
sense I can't really

01:07:32.244 --> 01:07:33.704
remember it but um I think

01:07:33.744 --> 01:07:34.925
denzel washington is in it

01:07:35.065 --> 01:07:37.047
and the problem with denzel

01:07:37.086 --> 01:07:38.086
washington is he's quite a

01:07:38.106 --> 01:07:39.208
good actor and he can paper

01:07:39.268 --> 01:07:40.329
over a lot of cracks in

01:07:40.369 --> 01:07:41.009
something where you're just

01:07:41.048 --> 01:07:43.471
like this is kind of an

01:07:43.570 --> 01:07:45.211
action film and at the end you're like

01:07:46.197 --> 01:07:46.318
No,

01:07:46.358 --> 01:07:47.800
but Denzel was just looking stressed

01:07:47.840 --> 01:07:49.021
for two hours and then

01:07:49.081 --> 01:07:50.282
trying to tell people to listen to him.

01:07:50.322 --> 01:07:50.762
And at the end,

01:07:50.782 --> 01:07:52.443
they finally listened to him.

01:07:54.467 --> 01:07:55.668
But I don't think any of

01:07:55.688 --> 01:07:57.009
that made a lick of sense, actually.

01:07:57.068 --> 01:07:58.329
Now Denzel's off screen,

01:07:58.690 --> 01:07:59.711
sanity has returned.

01:08:02.574 --> 01:08:03.416
Although Denzel Washington

01:08:03.436 --> 01:08:04.536
films are worth seeing that

01:08:04.577 --> 01:08:06.097
I think didn't get seen a huge amount.

01:08:06.137 --> 01:08:07.659
That Flight one, have you seen that?

01:08:08.039 --> 01:08:09.322
Yeah, that's a good fucking movie.

01:08:09.875 --> 01:08:11.237
that, that I saw,

01:08:11.277 --> 01:08:11.978
I think I might've seen it

01:08:11.998 --> 01:08:13.099
on a plate of all places.

01:08:13.139 --> 01:08:13.739
I think I did too.

01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:14.041
Actually.

01:08:14.161 --> 01:08:16.925
You know, when you just like, you know,

01:08:17.045 --> 01:08:17.746
when you have zero

01:08:17.786 --> 01:08:19.608
expectation and you were like,

01:08:20.309 --> 01:08:22.112
this is actually a fucking great movie.

01:08:22.152 --> 01:08:23.073
This is really good.

01:08:23.153 --> 01:08:23.252
Yeah.

01:08:23.273 --> 01:08:23.412
Yeah.

01:08:25.074 --> 01:08:27.055
You know the bit where you

01:08:27.095 --> 01:08:28.095
think he's cleaned up his

01:08:28.235 --> 01:08:29.155
act and the whole of the

01:08:29.176 --> 01:08:30.676
film's story arc has led

01:08:30.695 --> 01:08:31.756
you to believe that this is

01:08:31.796 --> 01:08:34.096
the moment of redemption.

01:08:34.476 --> 01:08:34.896
Hold on.

01:08:34.997 --> 01:08:35.657
I haven't seen it yet.

01:08:35.676 --> 01:08:36.797
I've wanted to see that film.

01:08:37.018 --> 01:08:38.557
If you have any spoilers coming,

01:08:38.677 --> 01:08:39.438
just back off.

01:08:39.938 --> 01:08:41.137
Seven years old.

01:08:41.819 --> 01:08:42.918
Just watch the film.

01:08:42.939 --> 01:08:43.798
There's a couple of

01:08:43.819 --> 01:08:44.779
fantastic scenes that are

01:08:49.039 --> 01:08:51.042
both tragic but also made me

01:08:51.122 --> 01:08:52.623
laugh out loud and you will

01:08:52.663 --> 01:08:54.164
know them you will know

01:08:54.225 --> 01:08:55.086
them because I have a six

01:08:55.105 --> 01:08:57.708
heads of humor um it's a

01:08:57.748 --> 01:08:58.470
great but it's also a great

01:08:58.489 --> 01:08:58.989
film it's really well

01:08:59.010 --> 01:09:00.731
that's it whatever and also

01:09:00.752 --> 01:09:01.412
you know one of those ones

01:09:01.432 --> 01:09:02.394
where weirdly all of the

01:09:02.434 --> 01:09:04.135
minor actors are also like

01:09:04.615 --> 01:09:05.737
at that point basically

01:09:05.777 --> 01:09:06.837
unknown but they go on to

01:09:06.858 --> 01:09:07.798
do a lot of stuff and

01:09:07.819 --> 01:09:08.439
you're like oh that's

01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:09.359
because they're good actors

01:09:09.380 --> 01:09:11.603
like oh yeah good supporting cast

01:09:12.092 --> 01:09:14.753
Who do you think of in that movie, though?

01:09:14.974 --> 01:09:16.094
The guy from Narcos,

01:09:16.113 --> 01:09:16.713
who's also been

01:09:16.774 --> 01:09:18.055
subsequently in a whole bunch of stuff.

01:09:19.314 --> 01:09:22.555
He's the co-pilot, isn't he?

01:09:22.996 --> 01:09:23.176
Who?

01:09:23.536 --> 01:09:23.916
Pablo?

01:09:24.836 --> 01:09:25.457
No.

01:09:26.796 --> 01:09:27.216
Escobar?

01:09:27.617 --> 01:09:27.796
No.

01:09:28.117 --> 01:09:29.238
No, the DEA guy.

01:09:29.257 --> 01:09:32.979
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:33.099 --> 01:09:34.319
You know who I'm talking about.

01:09:34.458 --> 01:09:35.698
Like I said, surprisingly good,

01:09:35.738 --> 01:09:36.399
but you don't always

01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:39.359
remember what he's been in.

01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:40.900
Don Cheadle's in that movie?

01:09:40.940 --> 01:09:41.501
I don't remember that.

01:09:42.681 --> 01:09:43.202
And Goodman?

01:09:43.542 --> 01:09:44.783
I'm going to watch this again, actually.

01:09:47.064 --> 01:09:47.385
It's good.

01:09:48.786 --> 01:09:49.746
And Kelly Reilly.

01:09:50.567 --> 01:09:50.667
Wait,

01:09:50.686 --> 01:09:52.127
there's a new Alien movie coming out

01:09:52.467 --> 01:09:53.569
called Alien Romulus?

01:09:54.069 --> 01:09:56.170
Oh, damn it.

01:09:56.189 --> 01:09:58.492
We had to screw it up.

01:09:58.511 --> 01:10:00.552
It was released today.

01:10:00.632 --> 01:10:02.253
The trailer was released today.

01:10:02.274 --> 01:10:05.456
I know what I'm doing after the podcast.

01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:09.381
Link in the show notes said,

01:10:09.421 --> 01:10:10.743
this is just a film podcast

01:10:10.823 --> 01:10:11.682
at this point.

01:10:11.703 --> 01:10:12.944
As all of them tap away to

01:10:12.984 --> 01:10:14.286
put it in a tab.

01:10:15.466 --> 01:10:17.228
So many movie times.

01:10:17.247 --> 01:10:18.988
Well, I put it in our actual chat,

01:10:19.029 --> 01:10:22.112
so then we can all see it.

01:10:22.131 --> 01:10:23.233
Wait, who directed this song?

01:10:25.154 --> 01:10:27.336
Is it a Ridley Scott one, or is it?

01:10:27.435 --> 01:10:28.237
It can't be, right?

01:10:29.757 --> 01:10:30.319
It's a... Oh, dear.

01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:32.260
Oh, dear.

01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:34.381
Oh, dear.

01:10:38.103 --> 01:10:39.144
I don't know anybody in this movie.

01:10:39.645 --> 01:10:43.167
It's produced by Ridley Scott's company.

01:10:43.188 --> 01:10:45.551
Oh, that means like, yeah,

01:10:47.231 --> 01:10:49.734
that's not the director

01:10:49.755 --> 01:10:50.876
that it's doing this.

01:10:50.895 --> 01:10:52.117
I actually really enjoy.

01:10:52.518 --> 01:10:56.381
So well, no, he was a writer.

01:10:56.402 --> 01:10:58.184
Apparently that Alvarez.

01:10:59.792 --> 01:11:01.333
So I've watched the movies he's written.

01:11:01.354 --> 01:11:02.836
He hasn't directed anything before.

01:11:03.296 --> 01:11:04.657
Fed showed Ridley Scott a

01:11:04.777 --> 01:11:06.479
rough cut of the film and Scott said, Fed,

01:11:06.519 --> 01:11:07.118
what can I say?

01:11:07.238 --> 01:11:08.079
It's fucking great.

01:11:11.002 --> 01:11:12.804
I'm sorry, Ridley.

01:11:13.144 --> 01:11:14.045
I don't trust you.

01:11:14.104 --> 01:11:15.886
You're just a bad Denivial nerve.

01:11:16.067 --> 01:11:16.907
Don't believe that.

01:11:18.328 --> 01:11:19.088
No, that's not fair.

01:11:19.810 --> 01:11:21.390
Ridley Scott has had some absolute bangers,

01:11:21.551 --> 01:11:22.332
but he has had some

01:11:22.452 --> 01:11:23.552
absolute duds as well.

01:11:24.554 --> 01:11:24.953
True enough.

01:11:25.734 --> 01:11:26.895
When is this coming out soon?

01:11:28.569 --> 01:11:29.029
Interesting.

01:11:29.050 --> 01:11:31.372
I think it said August this year.

01:11:31.452 --> 01:11:32.353
Oh, okay.

01:11:34.654 --> 01:11:35.194
Not good.

01:11:36.275 --> 01:11:37.617
Yeah, we'll see about that.

01:11:38.256 --> 01:11:39.417
Coming soon to a Game of

01:11:39.457 --> 01:11:42.279
Nodes review show near you.

01:11:43.220 --> 01:11:46.483
But let's hope it's more

01:11:46.804 --> 01:11:49.586
Pacific Rim than it is The Hobbit.

01:11:50.065 --> 01:11:50.966
all right I'm gonna my

01:11:50.987 --> 01:11:51.926
homework this week is I'm

01:11:51.947 --> 01:11:53.207
gonna I'm gonna watch

01:11:53.228 --> 01:11:54.868
pacific rim and then we can

01:11:54.889 --> 01:11:56.029
talk about next week your

01:11:56.069 --> 01:11:57.069
homework next week is to

01:11:57.109 --> 01:11:58.930
watch robot shocks so we

01:11:58.951 --> 01:11:59.791
can talk about robot shocks

01:11:59.810 --> 01:12:00.671
for 90 fucking minutes

01:12:00.712 --> 01:12:01.231
because that would be

01:12:01.252 --> 01:12:03.913
fucking great I need to

01:12:03.953 --> 01:12:05.014
find a way of downloading

01:12:05.033 --> 01:12:05.795
it so I can watch all the

01:12:05.835 --> 01:12:06.814
train tomorrow I've got a

01:12:06.835 --> 01:12:08.036
long train journey I can

01:12:08.055 --> 01:12:09.537
help you with that yes yes

01:12:09.716 --> 01:12:10.396
if I'm sure it's on the

01:12:10.417 --> 01:12:11.078
blockchain somewhere

01:12:11.920 --> 01:12:12.980
Do you think it might be on

01:12:13.001 --> 01:12:14.681
a special Plex server somewhere as well?

01:12:14.782 --> 01:12:15.921
It might be on a special Plex server.

01:12:15.981 --> 01:12:16.743
Yeah, it's possible.

01:12:17.063 --> 01:12:18.644
I mean, I'm going to need it offline.

01:12:20.904 --> 01:12:21.605
You can do that too?

01:12:22.326 --> 01:12:22.525
What?

01:12:22.546 --> 01:12:23.346
You can do it on Plex?

01:12:23.386 --> 01:12:23.806
Yeah, Plex.

01:12:23.827 --> 01:12:25.007
You can do a download and

01:12:25.028 --> 01:12:25.807
you can just grab it

01:12:25.847 --> 01:12:27.328
locally and it'll play locally.

01:12:27.389 --> 01:12:28.090
Sweet Jesus.

01:12:28.729 --> 01:12:29.671
Sweet Jesus.

01:12:29.730 --> 01:12:29.871
It's 2024.

01:12:29.911 --> 01:12:34.092
They have these technologies.

01:12:34.252 --> 01:12:36.694
Okay, look.

01:12:36.774 --> 01:12:37.895
I'm still cranking up the

01:12:37.954 --> 01:12:41.395
BitTorrent client like it's 2021.

01:12:41.395 --> 01:12:42.537
why won't this limewire

01:12:42.657 --> 01:12:44.997
client I can't find

01:12:45.078 --> 01:12:46.498
anything going on here it's

01:12:46.918 --> 01:12:49.539
um I need my britney yeah

01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:50.460
just still trying to

01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:52.680
download toxic from 2001

01:12:52.680 --> 01:12:55.063
and then it finally

01:12:55.103 --> 01:12:57.463
downloads it's just the

01:12:57.524 --> 01:12:58.844
demo version of command and

01:12:58.863 --> 01:13:00.664
conquer you're like ah oh

01:13:00.925 --> 01:13:02.166
fuck the direct the

01:13:02.206 --> 01:13:03.466
shareware version it's not

01:13:03.506 --> 01:13:04.567
even the free version

01:13:05.827 --> 01:13:07.688
Although in fucking Command

01:13:07.688 --> 01:13:09.328
& Conquer adjacent news,

01:13:09.948 --> 01:13:12.251
have you seen Homeworld 3

01:13:12.251 --> 01:13:13.350
is finally about to come out?

01:13:13.992 --> 01:13:15.672
I was like, oh my God.

01:13:15.693 --> 01:13:16.872
I'm so detuned.

01:13:16.912 --> 01:13:18.493
I thought you said Master Commander.

01:13:18.734 --> 01:13:19.494
Command & Conquer.

01:13:21.716 --> 01:13:22.435
Homeworld 3.

01:13:22.615 --> 01:13:24.117
Homeworld 3 is about to come out.

01:13:24.556 --> 01:13:25.037
Homeworld 3.

01:13:25.097 --> 01:13:28.038
The sequel to the greatest

01:13:28.059 --> 01:13:29.180
real-time strategy game of

01:13:29.380 --> 01:13:30.780
all time that fans have

01:13:30.820 --> 01:13:33.082
been waiting for for 21 years, I think.

01:13:35.338 --> 01:13:35.779
Is that true?

01:13:36.059 --> 01:13:36.680
I thought it would never

01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:37.760
happen in my lifetime.

01:13:37.960 --> 01:13:39.341
I thought we were done with Homeworld.

01:13:39.701 --> 01:13:41.240
I've never played this game.

01:13:41.962 --> 01:13:45.002
It's like a 3D in space real

01:13:45.023 --> 01:13:45.943
time strategy game.

01:13:45.962 --> 01:13:47.663
And it just had a lot of

01:13:47.724 --> 01:13:48.844
attention to detail.

01:13:48.863 --> 01:13:49.645
Like back in the day,

01:13:49.704 --> 01:13:52.126
like the concept art was amazing.

01:13:52.185 --> 01:13:53.246
The world was amazing.

01:13:53.286 --> 01:13:54.947
All the backdrops were really well done.

01:13:55.667 --> 01:13:56.667
like you would occasionally

01:13:56.728 --> 01:13:58.408
like you would do like a

01:13:58.469 --> 01:13:59.069
mission where you have to

01:13:59.109 --> 01:14:00.251
investigate something and

01:14:00.291 --> 01:14:00.951
then they would just have

01:14:00.990 --> 01:14:02.551
like animated this huge

01:14:02.613 --> 01:14:04.453
like obviously non-natural

01:14:04.514 --> 01:14:05.534
thing in the background

01:14:06.074 --> 01:14:07.076
like way off in the

01:14:07.095 --> 01:14:08.516
distance and it wouldn't be

01:14:08.556 --> 01:14:09.337
a part of what you were

01:14:09.358 --> 01:14:10.318
doing and you just be like

01:14:10.458 --> 01:14:13.161
well that's unsettling and

01:14:14.041 --> 01:14:14.981
they just did a lot of

01:14:15.122 --> 01:14:16.342
stuff with what like they

01:14:16.382 --> 01:14:17.283
only had the technology at

01:14:17.304 --> 01:14:17.963
the time but they

01:14:17.984 --> 01:14:18.864
understood they would like

01:14:18.904 --> 01:14:19.404
trying to do something

01:14:19.465 --> 01:14:21.106
narrative and like they they

01:14:21.952 --> 01:14:22.853
spend a lot of time on all

01:14:22.872 --> 01:14:23.974
of the radio chatter.

01:14:23.993 --> 01:14:25.574
So like when your ships are moving,

01:14:25.614 --> 01:14:27.277
they're like, yeah, Roger, whatever.

01:14:27.377 --> 01:14:28.438
And then they just talk.

01:14:28.497 --> 01:14:29.377
There's like little bits of

01:14:29.417 --> 01:14:30.739
dialogue when things are

01:14:30.779 --> 01:14:31.800
happening and stuff like that.

01:14:32.201 --> 01:14:34.363
And it was just an

01:14:34.422 --> 01:14:36.363
incredibly immersive experience for,

01:14:36.505 --> 01:14:37.786
if you were into sci-fi,

01:14:37.805 --> 01:14:39.527
especially if you were in a

01:14:39.587 --> 01:14:40.568
impressionable age.

01:14:41.509 --> 01:14:41.588
Um,

01:14:42.386 --> 01:14:44.368
And they were like, oh,

01:14:44.408 --> 01:14:44.948
here's all the things we

01:14:44.967 --> 01:14:45.688
want to do with it.

01:14:46.408 --> 01:14:48.289
They wanted to have it so

01:14:48.329 --> 01:14:49.810
you could explore all these

01:14:50.149 --> 01:14:51.251
ancient megastructures and

01:14:51.270 --> 01:14:52.171
all this other kind of stuff.

01:14:52.190 --> 01:14:53.792
And they were just unable to

01:14:53.912 --> 01:14:54.292
because of the

01:14:54.332 --> 01:14:55.912
technological limitations at the time.

01:14:57.225 --> 01:14:58.606
So they basically baked

01:14:58.766 --> 01:14:59.908
everything they wanted to

01:14:59.927 --> 01:15:01.149
do into the world and just

01:15:01.229 --> 01:15:01.969
made it so you had to

01:15:02.029 --> 01:15:02.769
imagine it yourself.

01:15:02.788 --> 01:15:03.649
And it was very effective.

01:15:04.250 --> 01:15:05.831
And then Homeworld 3,

01:15:05.831 --> 01:15:06.752
they basically spent five

01:15:06.771 --> 01:15:08.393
years with an actual budget

01:15:08.613 --> 01:15:09.873
and an actual studio.

01:15:09.974 --> 01:15:10.493
And they've gone, hey,

01:15:10.514 --> 01:15:11.134
we're just going to build

01:15:11.154 --> 01:15:11.734
all the stuff that we

01:15:11.755 --> 01:15:12.215
couldn't build in 2003.

01:15:12.215 --> 01:15:13.895
We've got the IP.

01:15:14.336 --> 01:15:16.256
We've got the original concept designers.

01:15:17.518 --> 01:15:18.759
We're just fucking doing the

01:15:18.798 --> 01:15:19.658
Homeworld that you all

01:15:19.859 --> 01:15:20.920
wanted for 20 years.

01:15:20.939 --> 01:15:24.082
But it's a strategy game.

01:15:24.202 --> 01:15:24.881
Is it more like a...

01:15:26.448 --> 01:15:28.149
like a board game where

01:15:28.189 --> 01:15:29.109
you're taking specific

01:15:29.149 --> 01:15:30.069
steps or is it more like a

01:15:30.109 --> 01:15:31.829
first person shooter like destiny two?

01:15:32.490 --> 01:15:33.270
It's a real, real,

01:15:33.511 --> 01:15:34.412
real time strategy game.

01:15:34.652 --> 01:15:37.273
So everything, although you can,

01:15:37.573 --> 01:15:38.792
in the original game, you could,

01:15:39.413 --> 01:15:40.373
you could pause and then

01:15:40.413 --> 01:15:41.213
zoom all the way out.

01:15:41.494 --> 01:15:43.154
So you've got all your units

01:15:43.194 --> 01:15:43.916
and then you zoom all the

01:15:43.935 --> 01:15:44.636
way out to this like

01:15:44.716 --> 01:15:46.016
expanded sense of you where

01:15:46.056 --> 01:15:47.716
you have like a big sphere

01:15:48.297 --> 01:15:49.177
and you basically can see

01:15:49.217 --> 01:15:50.418
in three dimensional space

01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:52.158
where everything is and what's happening.

01:15:52.599 --> 01:15:52.779
Yeah.

01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:53.180
Yeah.

01:15:54.322 --> 01:15:55.203
Because obviously everything

01:15:55.323 --> 01:15:56.545
is limited by your sensor

01:15:56.585 --> 01:15:57.466
ranges and where you have

01:15:57.546 --> 01:15:58.747
probes and stuff like that.

01:15:58.766 --> 01:16:00.750
It has a little bit of the

01:16:00.770 --> 01:16:04.113
feel of a submarine game.

01:16:04.234 --> 01:16:05.375
I think that's kind of what they're in.

01:16:05.454 --> 01:16:05.734
It's like a

01:16:05.835 --> 01:16:08.018
three-dimensional submarine

01:16:08.057 --> 01:16:09.319
game in some ways in that...

01:16:10.921 --> 01:16:11.903
things are a bit tankier

01:16:11.943 --> 01:16:13.585
than this but like if you

01:16:13.604 --> 01:16:14.746
get the first shot that is

01:16:14.805 --> 01:16:15.867
like obviously beneficial

01:16:16.146 --> 01:16:20.570
you know yeah um so I'm

01:16:20.591 --> 01:16:21.612
pretty nice about that but

01:16:21.631 --> 01:16:22.353
it doesn't write something

01:16:22.372 --> 01:16:23.654
they're not gonna run on

01:16:23.694 --> 01:16:24.994
fucking mac is it so

01:16:25.576 --> 01:16:28.118
nothing runs on mac no the

01:16:28.137 --> 01:16:30.079
mac 21 years it's been 21

01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:30.800
years since the last one

01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:32.521
came out sitting around

01:16:33.519 --> 01:16:35.819
i so true fact I got into

01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:36.960
programming the first

01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:38.039
computer programming I did

01:16:38.060 --> 01:16:40.220
was modding homeworld uh

01:16:40.260 --> 01:16:41.480
homeworld 2 because you it

01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:42.921
was you could decompile the

01:16:42.940 --> 01:16:46.082
game and then change um the

01:16:46.122 --> 01:16:47.322
core of the game engine was

01:16:47.402 --> 01:16:49.502
in c but all of the assets

01:16:49.561 --> 01:16:50.502
and the ships and their

01:16:50.542 --> 01:16:52.023
behavior was coded up in a

01:16:52.042 --> 01:16:52.922
scripting language called

01:16:52.983 --> 01:16:54.563
lure which is sort of like

01:16:54.622 --> 01:16:57.944
python python like small talk like um and

01:16:58.663 --> 01:17:00.284
and there's some really

01:17:00.324 --> 01:17:01.145
interesting stuff you could

01:17:01.166 --> 01:17:02.407
do it's like all of a lot

01:17:02.426 --> 01:17:03.587
of the path detection

01:17:03.646 --> 01:17:06.168
detection um was designed

01:17:06.208 --> 01:17:07.189
so that things would move

01:17:07.270 --> 01:17:10.351
like planes kind of so a

01:17:10.712 --> 01:17:12.912
really classic baby's first

01:17:13.012 --> 01:17:14.875
mod was to just delete a

01:17:14.895 --> 01:17:15.515
whole bunch of the

01:17:15.574 --> 01:17:16.996
pathfinding and instead

01:17:17.055 --> 01:17:18.237
just introduce like um

01:17:19.792 --> 01:17:21.113
essentially a bump distance

01:17:21.154 --> 01:17:22.534
like don't go closer than

01:17:22.595 --> 01:17:24.056
this distance to any other

01:17:24.216 --> 01:17:26.257
asset in the game instead

01:17:26.278 --> 01:17:27.659
of doing any pathfinding

01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:29.400
like logic just like don't

01:17:29.440 --> 01:17:30.962
bump into things and what

01:17:31.002 --> 01:17:32.604
it meant was that sounds

01:17:32.623 --> 01:17:33.725
really abstract but what it

01:17:33.744 --> 01:17:34.425
meant was rather than

01:17:34.465 --> 01:17:35.605
trying to like fly around

01:17:35.666 --> 01:17:38.068
things they would like in

01:17:38.347 --> 01:17:39.189
you know the battlestar

01:17:39.208 --> 01:17:40.449
galactica tv show that was

01:17:40.489 --> 01:17:41.251
contemporary at the time

01:17:41.570 --> 01:17:42.912
they would go along and

01:17:42.952 --> 01:17:43.893
then ignore the physics

01:17:43.972 --> 01:17:44.573
engine and just go

01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:48.841
over an object and then just

01:17:48.881 --> 01:17:49.921
continue on to their

01:17:49.962 --> 01:17:52.002
intended direction and then

01:17:52.162 --> 01:17:53.222
always just be oriented

01:17:53.262 --> 01:17:53.802
where they were going to

01:17:53.842 --> 01:17:57.444
shoot and it looked super

01:17:57.484 --> 01:17:58.564
weird right which is why

01:17:58.625 --> 01:18:00.025
obviously they they didn't

01:18:00.126 --> 01:18:00.926
do that in the finished

01:18:00.945 --> 01:18:01.666
game they did all this

01:18:01.685 --> 01:18:02.707
pathfinding stuff to make

01:18:02.726 --> 01:18:03.766
sure they moved and they

01:18:04.027 --> 01:18:04.867
looked like planes and

01:18:04.886 --> 01:18:06.028
stuff but loads of players

01:18:06.688 --> 01:18:07.748
were like oh actually no it

01:18:07.788 --> 01:18:08.569
makes more sense that they

01:18:08.588 --> 01:18:09.389
would just point themselves

01:18:09.429 --> 01:18:11.170
towards their target blast off towards it

01:18:12.110 --> 01:18:12.831
move out of the way of a

01:18:12.871 --> 01:18:14.912
thing and then just like coast basically.

01:18:14.931 --> 01:18:15.172
And so,

01:18:15.292 --> 01:18:17.054
and it would look visually really weird,

01:18:17.073 --> 01:18:17.554
but that's the most

01:18:17.613 --> 01:18:18.434
efficient thing to do.

01:18:18.453 --> 01:18:19.914
You've got limited propellant, right?

01:18:21.716 --> 01:18:23.197
And if you attack something in 3D,

01:18:23.216 --> 01:18:23.856
you're not going to like

01:18:23.997 --> 01:18:25.337
fly past it and then turn

01:18:25.377 --> 01:18:27.819
around and fly back unless you have to.

01:18:28.418 --> 01:18:29.180
You're going to like try and

01:18:29.220 --> 01:18:30.800
coast to a hole or coast

01:18:30.859 --> 01:18:31.900
past it and then shoot.

01:18:32.041 --> 01:18:32.440
And you could,

01:18:33.021 --> 01:18:34.502
you could modify all that

01:18:34.521 --> 01:18:35.542
sort of stuff to try and do,

01:18:36.262 --> 01:18:36.904
have your kind of

01:18:36.944 --> 01:18:37.804
Battlestar Galactica

01:18:37.844 --> 01:18:38.703
simulator that you always

01:18:38.743 --> 01:18:39.505
want to basically.

01:18:39.564 --> 01:18:40.385
It was great.

01:18:40.905 --> 01:18:41.746
Good fucking show, by the way.

01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:43.881
Oh, the remake.

01:18:44.421 --> 01:18:44.761
Amazing.

01:18:44.782 --> 01:18:44.902
Yeah.

01:18:45.622 --> 01:18:45.842
Yeah.

01:18:46.582 --> 01:18:47.344
The original was good too,

01:18:47.363 --> 01:18:48.845
but like the original was good,

01:18:49.225 --> 01:18:50.626
but like the remake was

01:18:50.666 --> 01:18:52.448
just a different caliber entirely.

01:18:52.467 --> 01:18:53.028
It was good, man.

01:18:53.969 --> 01:18:54.909
I was watching it.

01:18:57.251 --> 01:18:57.511
I have.

01:18:57.832 --> 01:18:58.051
Yeah.

01:18:58.152 --> 01:18:59.172
It's been a long time though.

01:18:59.353 --> 01:19:00.314
I don't know if I've seen the new one.

01:19:02.135 --> 01:19:04.077
Oh, that like, it was like, what,

01:19:04.157 --> 01:19:04.817
what year was that?

01:19:04.957 --> 01:19:05.417
Maybe 2003.

01:19:05.717 --> 01:19:06.358
Yeah.

01:19:06.377 --> 01:19:08.760
It was early two thousands, right?

01:19:09.360 --> 01:19:09.520
Yeah.

01:19:11.127 --> 01:19:13.895
with Edward James Olmos, right?

01:19:15.060 --> 01:19:17.889
Who was... Jamie Bamber played Apollo.

01:19:19.570 --> 01:19:20.150
Is that what it was?

01:19:20.310 --> 01:19:20.530
Yeah.

01:19:20.730 --> 01:19:21.532
Yeah.

01:19:21.652 --> 01:19:22.712
So fun fact,

01:19:22.731 --> 01:19:24.112
he was like a British TV actor.

01:19:24.252 --> 01:19:25.613
He was a British TV actor before that,

01:19:25.693 --> 01:19:26.372
like young guy.

01:19:27.332 --> 01:19:29.474
I'm currently re-watching Hornblower,

01:19:30.154 --> 01:19:32.515
nautical nonsense, as it's known.

01:19:32.574 --> 01:19:33.395
I'm a fan of that stuff.

01:19:33.954 --> 01:19:35.456
And a minor character in

01:19:35.515 --> 01:19:37.435
Hornblower is played by Jamie Bamber.

01:19:37.475 --> 01:19:38.536
He walked on screen.

01:19:38.555 --> 01:19:39.037
I was actually like,

01:19:39.396 --> 01:19:40.997
it's fucking Jamie Bamber.

01:19:41.796 --> 01:19:43.037
Nobody else in the room had

01:19:43.118 --> 01:19:44.398
seen Battlestar Galactica.

01:19:45.198 --> 01:19:46.118
There was just like dead silence.

01:19:46.139 --> 01:19:47.399
I was like, Apollo, Apollo.

01:19:48.176 --> 01:19:48.756
Apollo!

01:19:49.077 --> 01:19:50.078
Still dead silence.

01:19:50.158 --> 01:19:54.019
I was like... Bowser Gladio?

01:19:54.078 --> 01:19:54.560
Yeah, exactly.

01:19:54.579 --> 01:19:55.539
I was just like, oh,

01:19:55.899 --> 01:19:58.001
I guess we all just see

01:19:58.820 --> 01:20:00.442
ship nerds in this room?

01:20:01.082 --> 01:20:03.823
There's no crossover with spaceship nerds,

01:20:03.884 --> 01:20:04.144
is it?

01:20:04.724 --> 01:20:05.923
Is that what we're doing here?

01:20:05.944 --> 01:20:07.864
Oh, yeah.

01:20:07.925 --> 01:20:08.244
That's right.

01:20:08.305 --> 01:20:09.405
And Starbuck was...

01:20:10.659 --> 01:20:12.801
Katie Sackhoff.

01:20:13.100 --> 01:20:15.023
She voiced a lot of the stuff in Halo,

01:20:15.042 --> 01:20:15.462
didn't she?

01:20:15.662 --> 01:20:17.923
That was a great part.

01:20:17.984 --> 01:20:20.645
I thought she was Cortana.

01:20:21.046 --> 01:20:21.466
Is she not?

01:20:22.587 --> 01:20:24.587
Oh, is she?

01:20:24.648 --> 01:20:26.069
I could be wrong, but I thought she was.

01:20:26.710 --> 01:20:30.712
Of course, she is one of the Mandalorians.

01:20:30.771 --> 01:20:33.113
I can't remember her name right now.

01:20:34.194 --> 01:20:34.514
That's right.

01:20:35.095 --> 01:20:36.555
I'm going to go back and

01:20:36.576 --> 01:20:37.315
watch part of that, too.

01:20:37.395 --> 01:20:38.377
That was a great fucking series,

01:20:38.417 --> 01:20:38.676
I remember.

01:20:40.494 --> 01:20:41.335
And like the president,

01:20:41.414 --> 01:20:42.555
I remember what that was.

01:20:42.595 --> 01:20:43.837
That was a really good series.

01:20:43.856 --> 01:20:45.157
How many seasons of that shit was there?

01:20:45.237 --> 01:20:45.818
Is it Laura?

01:20:46.037 --> 01:20:47.018
It wasn't Laura Linney who

01:20:47.057 --> 01:20:48.038
was the president, was it?

01:20:48.118 --> 01:20:48.338
No.

01:20:48.399 --> 01:20:50.060
Laura something sounds very familiar,

01:20:50.100 --> 01:20:50.300
though.

01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:50.939
Yeah.

01:20:51.720 --> 01:20:52.581
No, it wasn't Laura.

01:20:52.841 --> 01:20:53.640
I think it was Laura Linney.

01:20:53.780 --> 01:20:56.603
Or maybe that was her actual, I don't know,

01:20:56.863 --> 01:20:57.122
whatever.

01:20:58.182 --> 01:20:58.422
I think,

01:20:58.502 --> 01:20:59.604
I feel like the person who played

01:20:59.623 --> 01:21:00.005
the president.

01:21:00.024 --> 01:21:01.586
Laura Roslin was the name of

01:21:01.606 --> 01:21:02.146
the president.

01:21:02.426 --> 01:21:03.247
Laura Roslin was the name of

01:21:03.268 --> 01:21:03.547
the president.

01:21:03.569 --> 01:21:04.248
Mary McDonald.

01:21:04.509 --> 01:21:05.990
Mary McDonald, yeah, yeah, that's right.

01:21:06.430 --> 01:21:08.372
And I think she plays the

01:21:08.533 --> 01:21:10.916
mum in Donnie Darko, you know.

01:21:10.935 --> 01:21:12.197
I feel like that.

01:21:12.237 --> 01:21:13.658
Yeah, she's been around for, yeah.

01:21:13.918 --> 01:21:14.800
She's been in a few things.

01:21:15.461 --> 01:21:16.121
Another good film.

01:21:16.301 --> 01:21:17.483
Grey's Anatomy, I remember, yeah,

01:21:17.523 --> 01:21:18.703
there's a couple things I remember.

01:21:19.345 --> 01:21:20.305
Yeah, Donnie Darko, you're right.

01:21:20.546 --> 01:21:21.025
Rose Darko.

01:21:22.011 --> 01:21:22.390
Good call.

01:21:23.353 --> 01:21:24.012
That's a good movie.

01:21:25.113 --> 01:21:25.835
I don't remember anything

01:21:25.935 --> 01:21:26.855
useful half the time,

01:21:26.895 --> 01:21:28.217
but I can remember some.

01:21:28.318 --> 01:21:29.458
Six degrees of separation.

01:21:30.579 --> 01:21:31.962
Some movie facts.

01:21:32.021 --> 01:21:35.405
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:36.466 --> 01:21:38.047
So do you want to do any

01:21:38.109 --> 01:21:40.070
news other than news about

01:21:40.110 --> 01:21:40.791
stuff that's coming up?

01:21:41.712 --> 01:21:42.913
Fuck the blockchain this week or what?

01:21:43.880 --> 01:21:46.581
Well, I mean, I think there's... Okay,

01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:47.301
we're going to rattle

01:21:47.320 --> 01:21:48.322
through it because there's

01:21:48.341 --> 01:21:49.181
a couple of funny things.

01:21:49.242 --> 01:21:50.641
So Strider asking for

01:21:50.681 --> 01:21:51.703
community pool funds.

01:21:52.662 --> 01:21:54.463
They want 20 million DYDX.

01:21:54.503 --> 01:21:56.623
You guys do DYDX, right?

01:21:56.663 --> 01:21:57.024
We're out.

01:21:57.225 --> 01:21:58.425
We got pushed out.

01:21:58.704 --> 01:21:59.845
I get pushed out.

01:22:01.046 --> 01:22:02.586
Yeah, I do DYDX.

01:22:03.606 --> 01:22:04.726
So what do you think of the short C?

01:22:09.229 --> 01:22:09.729
I'm fine with it.

01:22:11.123 --> 01:22:12.565
I think the strides positive

01:22:12.586 --> 01:22:13.287
for the ecosystem.

01:22:13.867 --> 01:22:14.207
I don't know.

01:22:14.528 --> 01:22:14.988
I think it's fine.

01:22:16.670 --> 01:22:17.110
There you go.

01:22:17.451 --> 01:22:19.533
In conclusion, there you go.

01:22:20.975 --> 01:22:21.456
Why do they want?

01:22:21.536 --> 01:22:22.015
What do they need?

01:22:22.176 --> 01:22:22.917
What do they need this for?

01:22:24.099 --> 01:22:25.039
Strides already active, right?

01:22:26.560 --> 01:22:27.181
And do you IDX?

01:22:27.882 --> 01:22:29.104
Stride is already active.

01:22:29.203 --> 01:22:29.505
Yes.

01:22:30.645 --> 01:22:31.327
I'm sure it's just.

01:22:33.371 --> 01:22:35.152
secure their foothold in the cosmos.

01:22:35.792 --> 01:22:36.894
The rate of DYDX being

01:22:36.934 --> 01:22:37.713
staked to validators has

01:22:37.793 --> 01:22:38.835
plateaued and deposits of

01:22:38.854 --> 01:22:39.716
the exchange are growing at

01:22:39.735 --> 01:22:40.475
a tremendous pace.

01:22:40.536 --> 01:22:42.578
Over $150 million USDC is

01:22:42.618 --> 01:22:44.538
held in DYDX before,

01:22:44.618 --> 01:22:45.500
of which $100 million

01:22:45.539 --> 01:22:47.041
arrived in the past week,

01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:48.681
given the growing adoption

01:22:48.702 --> 01:22:50.503
of DYDX before and the recent adoption.

01:22:50.524 --> 01:22:50.743
I mean,

01:22:50.783 --> 01:22:52.225
I also think it's a concern to have

01:22:52.265 --> 01:22:53.666
too much stake through DYDX,

01:22:53.865 --> 01:22:56.528
or through Stride, so no.

01:22:57.929 --> 01:22:59.750
Like, I think it's a positive, but I think,

01:23:00.470 --> 01:23:00.751
I don't know.

01:23:01.220 --> 01:23:03.323
think also this this

01:23:03.582 --> 01:23:04.684
juggernaut needs some

01:23:05.104 --> 01:23:07.064
serious competition because

01:23:07.104 --> 01:23:08.886
this is it's turning into a

01:23:08.907 --> 01:23:10.728
thing stride where it's

01:23:10.768 --> 01:23:12.309
tries just yes blessed

01:23:12.609 --> 01:23:14.070
proof of authority cartel

01:23:14.190 --> 01:23:16.431
it is a totally blessed by

01:23:16.452 --> 01:23:17.453
the foundation proof of

01:23:17.512 --> 01:23:19.154
authority type structure it

01:23:19.175 --> 01:23:21.076
goes to this it goes to the

01:23:21.136 --> 01:23:22.176
same validator structures

01:23:22.237 --> 01:23:23.537
across all stride chains if

01:23:23.557 --> 01:23:24.198
you're in that group it's

01:23:24.217 --> 01:23:25.059
great if you're not man

01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:27.159
If I had the energy,

01:23:27.220 --> 01:23:28.421
I could add another chapter

01:23:28.520 --> 01:23:31.344
to my paper on liquid staking cartels.

01:23:31.863 --> 01:23:34.627
Fucking Stride is a paper in itself.

01:23:34.686 --> 01:23:36.128
Honestly,

01:23:36.168 --> 01:23:37.229
I think this is probably the most

01:23:37.350 --> 01:23:39.051
powerful team in the cosmos.

01:23:41.594 --> 01:23:39.051
100%.

01:23:41.613 --> 01:23:41.873
What,

01:23:41.913 --> 01:23:44.396
purely because of the Kingmaker effect?

01:23:44.936 --> 01:23:45.297
Totally.

01:23:46.123 --> 01:23:47.503
like they make deals like

01:23:47.583 --> 01:23:48.345
this type of structure

01:23:48.564 --> 01:23:49.545
teams want that liquid

01:23:49.564 --> 01:23:50.505
staking piece they're

01:23:50.625 --> 01:23:51.444
they're really the only

01:23:51.505 --> 01:23:52.525
liquid staking structure in

01:23:52.546 --> 01:23:54.365
town they control a

01:23:55.065 --> 01:23:56.386
tremendous amount of the of

01:23:56.407 --> 01:23:57.466
the delegation structure of

01:23:57.506 --> 01:23:58.707
this right like I think

01:23:58.827 --> 01:24:00.068
it's a really powerful team

01:24:00.087 --> 01:24:01.427
within the cosmos which is

01:24:01.467 --> 01:24:02.347
not necessarily a bad thing

01:24:02.368 --> 01:24:03.429
like I understand powerful

01:24:03.488 --> 01:24:04.828
also like within the cosmos

01:24:04.868 --> 01:24:06.208
that's like that's like I

01:24:06.229 --> 01:24:07.229
know right that's like

01:24:07.270 --> 01:24:08.350
saying you're the only guy

01:24:08.390 --> 01:24:09.489
in the car park with a

01:24:09.569 --> 01:24:10.369
knife it's like well

01:24:10.390 --> 01:24:11.251
somebody can just like not

01:24:11.270 --> 01:24:12.310
go into that car park

01:24:12.650 --> 01:24:13.692
that's like uh what is that

01:24:13.971 --> 01:24:15.914
yeah that's right that's 16

01:24:15.914 --> 01:24:16.715
candles like I'm king of

01:24:16.734 --> 01:24:17.456
the dipshits and like

01:24:17.496 --> 01:24:19.238
holding up ladies underwear

01:24:20.279 --> 01:24:21.841
um yeah no I understand

01:24:21.940 --> 01:24:23.903
anyway so enough about

01:24:23.922 --> 01:24:25.645
stride I think I mean what

01:24:25.765 --> 01:24:26.865
are you gonna do I mean I i

01:24:26.886 --> 01:24:28.608
think and where's all this

01:24:29.849 --> 01:24:31.591
aren't they or quicksilver

01:24:31.631 --> 01:24:32.351
like what happened what

01:24:32.372 --> 01:24:33.011
happened these teams

01:24:33.172 --> 01:24:35.454
quicksilver's dead like what happened

01:24:35.831 --> 01:24:36.430
Completely out?

01:24:36.572 --> 01:24:37.851
There's no competition?

01:24:38.412 --> 01:24:41.074
Quicksilver is owned by Notional,

01:24:41.414 --> 01:24:42.515
if I remember correctly.

01:24:42.536 --> 01:24:43.636
Really?

01:24:44.716 --> 01:24:45.037
Yeah.

01:24:47.099 --> 01:24:47.939
Owned?

01:24:48.380 --> 01:24:50.001
Or like... Yeah?

01:24:50.900 --> 01:24:51.962
Well, I think they're the core devs,

01:24:52.002 --> 01:24:53.182
I guess is what I should say,

01:24:53.302 --> 01:24:54.283
because it's a blockchain,

01:24:54.323 --> 01:24:55.123
and blockchains can't be

01:24:55.203 --> 01:24:56.324
owned by one specific

01:24:56.364 --> 01:24:57.466
individual and entity.

01:24:58.305 --> 01:24:58.586
But yeah.

01:24:59.346 --> 01:25:01.087
But there's no devs left at Notional.

01:25:01.628 --> 01:25:01.969
So...

01:25:07.296 --> 01:25:08.997
right well there's also

01:25:09.037 --> 01:25:11.037
persistence and actually um

01:25:11.278 --> 01:25:13.078
we kind of fought pushback

01:25:13.298 --> 01:25:16.039
on the dydx proposal for um

01:25:16.100 --> 01:25:16.881
splitting some of that with

01:25:16.940 --> 01:25:18.201
persistence so persistence

01:25:18.240 --> 01:25:21.903
can have part of the um I

01:25:21.922 --> 01:25:22.863
don't know the the stake

01:25:22.903 --> 01:25:24.363
amount as well just to help

01:25:24.423 --> 01:25:26.244
distribute it more yeah

01:25:27.765 --> 01:25:28.645
This, this threat,

01:25:28.666 --> 01:25:29.725
I'll put this thread in the show notes.

01:25:29.746 --> 01:25:30.166
This is the,

01:25:30.667 --> 01:25:33.047
the thread related to this type of thing.

01:25:33.528 --> 01:25:33.667
And,

01:25:33.967 --> 01:25:35.529
and really only people chiming in this

01:25:35.588 --> 01:25:37.930
red are, are, are the stride validators.

01:25:39.712 --> 01:25:40.912
So, or,

01:25:41.252 --> 01:25:43.132
or individuals who are in charge of

01:25:43.172 --> 01:25:44.314
stride, um,

01:25:44.573 --> 01:25:46.975
or like involved in that team decision.

01:25:47.155 --> 01:25:49.237
So maybe I'll shit out this a little bit,

01:25:49.296 --> 01:25:51.198
but this is too much of the

01:25:51.257 --> 01:25:52.439
liquid staking stuff.

01:25:52.538 --> 01:25:54.680
And I'm just like, action, please.

01:25:56.927 --> 01:25:59.010
this this thread this this

01:25:59.090 --> 01:26:01.992
thread is a is a uh closed

01:26:02.032 --> 01:26:03.613
discord group that that has

01:26:03.893 --> 01:26:04.913
one public thread where

01:26:04.934 --> 01:26:06.375
everybody like gets

01:26:06.414 --> 01:26:08.275
involved in it but whatever

01:26:09.817 --> 01:26:11.738
it'll pass great congrats

01:26:15.140 --> 01:26:22.046
enjoy ah be nice I mean too negative

01:26:23.609 --> 01:26:24.310
I don't think.

01:26:25.190 --> 01:26:26.390
Jake says, you know, Anjuna,

01:26:26.411 --> 01:26:26.990
we had this thought that

01:26:27.310 --> 01:26:28.051
liquid-staking solutions

01:26:28.070 --> 01:26:28.731
should live on the same

01:26:28.771 --> 01:26:29.692
chain as you know the chain.

01:26:29.872 --> 01:26:30.572
Fucking A, brother.

01:26:30.591 --> 01:26:31.773
Totally agree.

01:26:32.712 --> 01:26:33.033
I mean.

01:26:35.054 --> 01:26:35.873
Totally fucking agree.

01:26:35.974 --> 01:26:38.454
It's crazy.

01:26:38.534 --> 01:26:39.475
I think this is it.

01:26:39.734 --> 01:26:40.375
Now it's going to turn into

01:26:40.395 --> 01:26:41.136
a juggernaut that's going

01:26:41.155 --> 01:26:42.095
to be difficult to unwrap.

01:26:43.206 --> 01:26:43.405
I mean,

01:26:43.426 --> 01:26:45.269
you look at what Lido and stuff

01:26:45.288 --> 01:26:46.551
have done in Ethereum, and you're like,

01:26:46.990 --> 01:26:48.632
the answer is nothing good.

01:26:49.595 --> 01:26:49.814
Like,

01:26:50.515 --> 01:26:52.479
nothing good from the perspective...

01:26:52.538 --> 01:26:53.579
Right, it's back to...

01:26:55.386 --> 01:26:56.807
do you want decentralization

01:26:56.847 --> 01:26:57.247
or do you want

01:26:57.287 --> 01:26:58.429
decentralization theater

01:26:58.668 --> 01:27:00.650
right and I accept that for

01:27:00.671 --> 01:27:02.452
the majority of people we

01:27:02.532 --> 01:27:03.393
need to go with rama's

01:27:03.412 --> 01:27:04.292
definition of what people

01:27:04.313 --> 01:27:05.173
want from crypto which they

01:27:05.194 --> 01:27:05.774
want to have a bit of a

01:27:05.793 --> 01:27:06.454
laugh they want to forget

01:27:06.494 --> 01:27:07.274
about their day job and

01:27:07.295 --> 01:27:08.015
they want to gamble in the

01:27:08.055 --> 01:27:09.917
big funny internet casino

01:27:10.578 --> 01:27:12.259
happy days cool if we want

01:27:12.298 --> 01:27:14.820
to do that liquid staking let's go

01:27:16.225 --> 01:27:17.386
public blockchains forever,

01:27:17.466 --> 01:27:18.528
give away all your data,

01:27:18.988 --> 01:27:21.489
allow Palantir to mine your

01:27:21.590 --> 01:27:23.011
financial data for the rest of the time,

01:27:23.270 --> 01:27:24.811
and let's all just be serfs

01:27:25.051 --> 01:27:26.073
and we can scrabble around

01:27:26.113 --> 01:27:26.813
in the mud on the

01:27:26.832 --> 01:27:28.033
blockchain while all of the

01:27:28.094 --> 01:27:29.875
lords sit in a tower and laugh at us.

01:27:30.456 --> 01:27:30.735
Cool.

01:27:31.176 --> 01:27:32.037
If that's what you want to do,

01:27:32.096 --> 01:27:33.278
that's fucking fantastic.

01:27:33.877 --> 01:27:35.179
Or we could just do like

01:27:35.359 --> 01:27:36.520
anything other than that

01:27:36.659 --> 01:27:37.541
and actually try and

01:27:37.600 --> 01:27:40.322
deliver on the promise of a more useful,

01:27:40.523 --> 01:27:42.163
better economically aligned

01:27:42.243 --> 01:27:43.324
structure for how we do

01:27:43.404 --> 01:27:45.225
things on the interchain of the internet.

01:27:45.826 --> 01:27:47.707
And I don't at the moment

01:27:48.007 --> 01:27:50.310
see how any of these large

01:27:50.470 --> 01:27:51.810
multi-chain liquid staking

01:27:51.850 --> 01:27:53.171
constructs fucking deliver

01:27:53.212 --> 01:27:54.432
on that or help deliver on that.

01:27:54.493 --> 01:27:54.813
In any way,

01:27:54.832 --> 01:27:56.594
they're just centralizing on a

01:27:56.713 --> 01:27:58.074
slightly different adjacent

01:27:58.095 --> 01:27:58.676
group of people

01:27:59.641 --> 01:28:00.242
And it's just the same

01:28:00.282 --> 01:28:01.302
fucking problem repeating.

01:28:01.323 --> 01:28:05.003
It's the same fucking problem repeating.

01:28:05.684 --> 01:28:05.003
100%.

01:28:05.904 --> 01:28:06.845
What the fuck does this do?

01:28:07.425 --> 01:28:08.505
Other than allow people to

01:28:08.564 --> 01:28:10.105
gamble the same money over and over again,

01:28:10.426 --> 01:28:13.627
which has never ever worked, by the way,

01:28:13.787 --> 01:28:15.568
in the history of economic systems.

01:28:15.728 --> 01:28:16.507
Creating more and more

01:28:16.528 --> 01:28:17.809
derivatives has never led

01:28:17.828 --> 01:28:18.668
to more stability.

01:28:19.368 --> 01:28:20.909
It's just not a fucking good idea.

01:28:20.930 --> 01:28:23.270
And people never learn, obviously.

01:28:23.711 --> 01:28:24.631
This is a cartel.

01:28:26.192 --> 01:28:26.971
This is a cartel.

01:28:27.944 --> 01:28:28.623
It's what this is.

01:28:28.804 --> 01:28:30.145
It's a group of individuals

01:28:30.625 --> 01:28:32.426
that that drive a

01:28:32.586 --> 01:28:33.246
significant amount of

01:28:33.326 --> 01:28:34.346
economic benefit to a

01:28:34.487 --> 01:28:36.307
smaller subgroup through

01:28:36.328 --> 01:28:37.268
the use of this structure.

01:28:37.287 --> 01:28:38.889
This is not decentralization.

01:28:38.948 --> 01:28:40.149
This is a fucking cartel.

01:28:40.708 --> 01:28:42.729
So like I like.

01:28:43.930 --> 01:28:44.190
And like.

01:28:45.457 --> 01:28:47.059
what are you gonna do right

01:28:47.298 --> 01:28:48.298
it's a cart there's there's

01:28:48.338 --> 01:28:49.199
a shitload of cartels not

01:28:49.220 --> 01:28:50.199
the only cartel there's a

01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:51.341
fucking ton of cartels

01:28:51.360 --> 01:28:52.681
there's a fucking ton of

01:28:52.702 --> 01:28:53.641
cartels like I'm gonna say

01:28:53.662 --> 01:28:54.402
there's like this is the

01:28:54.481 --> 01:28:56.783
only one um but this this

01:28:56.863 --> 01:28:59.085
is a fucking cartel and so

01:28:59.664 --> 01:29:01.666
it it sounds great this is a

01:29:01.945 --> 01:29:03.265
fucking cartel.

01:29:03.646 --> 01:29:05.367
And that cartel is a small

01:29:05.407 --> 01:29:06.907
number of people making those decisions.

01:29:07.226 --> 01:29:09.608
So recognize, please,

01:29:10.047 --> 01:29:11.509
that through this structure,

01:29:11.849 --> 01:29:13.088
this is an extremely

01:29:13.168 --> 01:29:14.569
centralized set of decision

01:29:14.609 --> 01:29:15.850
makers that control a

01:29:15.949 --> 01:29:17.210
significant amount of funds

01:29:17.270 --> 01:29:18.711
to a significant amount of people.

01:29:19.570 --> 01:29:19.970
It's a cartel.

01:29:22.297 --> 01:29:22.578
Whatever.

01:29:23.819 --> 01:29:25.300
DYDX has two validators that control 33%.

01:29:25.340 --> 01:29:25.920
What the fuck?

01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:27.121
Who cares?

01:29:27.381 --> 01:29:28.261
It doesn't really matter.

01:29:28.742 --> 01:29:29.261
And this is not

01:29:29.301 --> 01:29:30.703
decentralizing that in any sort of way,

01:29:30.783 --> 01:29:31.944
but this is a fucking cartel.