1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,100 Yeah. Game of Newt. 2 00:00:01,100 --> 00:00:02,880 You think that'll actually address some viewership? 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:06,600 Absolutely. 4 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,400 Well, it's like, yeah. 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:19,140 Welcome to Game of Modes, a weekly podcast from independent validated teams. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,480 Welcome to Game of Newts and independent podcast on something by validators, 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:29,640 except for not me. 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,720 I've got no idea what the intro is anymore. 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,040 Oh, it's just as good as I could do. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:35,680 Yeah, exactly. 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:36,360 I didn't know what it was. 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,280 That's how I was hoping you would do it. 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,720 When it was the long, I can do the original one. 14 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,000 Welcome to Game of Nodes podcast on the Cosmos by independent validated teams. 15 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,840 When it was the long, complicated one, I could do that. 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:53,640 Then it kind of just became we're a podcast and I lost all track of what it is. 17 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,640 Well, I think it's just dropped the Cosmos bit and it's exactly the same, right? 18 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,880 Podcast by independent validated teams. 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:01,720 Fine. 20 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,160 Nothing from shade since, you know, we volunteer to say it. 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,920 I just find it odd as someone who's just independent and not a validated team 22 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,520 to even be claiming it's from validated teams at this stage. 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,400 Seeing as I'm pretty much, you know, 50% of the phrase time, I would say now. 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,520 Yeah, that's true. 25 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,680 Yeah, and our content doesn't exactly come from validators either. 26 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,600 We're like, Hey, what? 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,080 What happened? 28 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:28,080 That's interesting. 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,440 Exactly. 30 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,960 And then we talk about validator stuff and people are like, can we not talk 31 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:32,960 about validator stuff? 32 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:34,800 Fine. 33 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,280 Well, that's mainly that's mainly me complaining about Null. 34 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,200 When he starts talking about his nodes at the data center, I just kind of snooze 35 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,760 20 minutes. 36 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,000 I know that was a shit show this week. 37 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,120 I was hoping he was here so we could talk about it. 38 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,960 It was like all the perfect data center stuff. 39 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,400 Like he got in late and then didn't ship and then he planned his time and then 40 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,440 he was missing cables and he had to go to the store. 41 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,040 Then he got on a plane and the guy said, Oh yeah, it's ready to go. 42 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:58,480 You ready? 43 00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:59,920 And he's like, No, I've got another plane. 44 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,760 It was all perfect data center story stuff, which we'll have to hear about next year. 45 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,560 It makes me really excited that he's going through it for the first time so I can 46 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,240 watch and really double down on me not wanting to host my own metal. 47 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,920 I'm perfectly happy with like letting the experts deal with it and let the experts 48 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:17,160 take care of the hardware places. 49 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,120 We've had like six hard drive replacements in the last two months. 50 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,840 Yeah, or that's six times. 51 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,240 I didn't have to go to the data center this month. 52 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,040 That's exactly right. 53 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,240 That makes me feel so good. 54 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:28,080 That's exactly right. 55 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:28,880 Yeah. 56 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:29,160 Yeah. 57 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,520 Or even if like, even if you have, I mean, you pay for it, but if there's a good 58 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,480 team on some DCs, like, see, we're writing a conversation that Benny does want to have. 59 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,760 But even if we're in some good DCs, like have really, like really capable people 60 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,920 on site that will get involved, right? 61 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:47,840 And like you send them new stuff and you just give them a window and they handle 62 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,200 it, right? 63 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:49,240 Or they'll do whatever. 64 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,680 And other ones are like, listen, here's a key. 65 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,520 You go over there and if you want to do something, you have to have somebody 66 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:55,400 come in and do it for you. 67 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:57,480 And those are miserable. 68 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:58,640 Like that's what we're in. 69 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,920 And so everything is like, it depends on like one of us are out of town or that's 70 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:04,400 going on or those types of things. 71 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,680 It's just, oh, it's brutal. 72 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,400 You don't want that. 73 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,040 You want, you want just like maybe Sips sent some hardware there. 74 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,720 And if a drive fails, like you have like six more sitting in a case that the guy 75 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,720 just can swap in when you talk to him type of thing, like, you don't want to be in 76 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:16,920 there. 77 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,480 It makes me kind of wonder about artifacts since he hosts his stuff, but not 78 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,000 locally, is he paying someone to do a place? 79 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,360 Since if that happened, he is. 80 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:26,640 Okay. 81 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:26,920 Yeah. 82 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:27,160 Okay. 83 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:27,400 Yeah. 84 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Cause I know that he also like hires his son to some extent, but that would be 85 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,320 expensive flying them all over the world as he does. 86 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:33,760 Yeah. 87 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,480 No, I think you like, that's what you do. 88 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,520 Like you, you get to deal with a DC that has like really good remote hands and then 89 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,080 you just send them machines and you deal with like that structure of it and then 90 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,480 you give them some spares and, you know, they'll, they might even have logins in 91 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,120 certain situations, which you may or may not want. 92 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,880 Um, cause they might have to do something on the OS or maybe something in IPMI to 93 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,520 change something. 94 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,200 So those are things you don't want to have, but I mean, you might have to, 95 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,200 depending on what's going on, right? 96 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,200 So, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's brutal. 97 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,520 There's something kind of romantic about owning your hardware to me, but the 98 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,800 reality, I think it's one of those things where I really have to let my, 99 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,720 let the reality sink in over and over. 100 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:14,880 I have to remind it yearly. 101 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Cause yearly are every six months. 102 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,840 Someone talks to me and he's like, Hey, have you thought about this? 103 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:20,080 And I'm like, I love the idea. 104 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:20,680 I love it. 105 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,480 And I have to like go talk to John about him doing proxmox or whatever. 106 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,360 And I remember, oh yeah. 107 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,440 No, no, no, I hate this idea. 108 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:27,920 No, I'm out. 109 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:29,160 Well, it's nice. 110 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,040 So like we have a couple, like we have a couple of glamour shots. 111 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,760 I have, I have some more glamour shots coming of our stuff too, because those 112 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:36,600 are nice to be able to show what it looks good, right? 113 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,560 It's kind of like a, it's a little bit of a penis measuring thing, to be honest. 114 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,040 Like, unfortunately, cause it's like, oh, you got a stack and there's like 115 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,280 led lights on it and shit, which is cool. 116 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:49,000 And maybe sometimes that works, but, but if you're in that business and you look 117 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,760 at a stack of hardware and you see no battery backup units and you see no 118 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,240 switches and you see like no, all this type of stuff, what you actually see is 119 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,600 like just hardware racked. 120 00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:59,440 And then you look at all I see is like problems. 121 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,840 Like I, like how much redundancies are there and like what's the fiber look like 122 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:07,520 and who has controlled those routes and wants to fail over on the switch that's 123 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,520 sitting at the top of the rack. 124 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,760 And then like, what does the BGP routes go for? 125 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,200 And like, like you start getting these types of things where you just like, 126 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:14,120 you just depress yourself. 127 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,520 You're like, oh, I don't want to deal with this shit. 128 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:17,520 Yeah, exactly. 129 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,160 That's that this is the kind of conversation that reminds me that I have 130 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,880 so little interest in the reality of running, like operating. 131 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:25,680 It looks good. 132 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,360 Yes. 133 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:26,840 Yeah. 134 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:27,880 It looks good. 135 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,280 But right, Bendy, is that what you're, this is what you're really excited about? 136 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:34,720 Yeah, I mean, yeah, sure. 137 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Like when I'm picking my, when I'm picking my validator, I just want. 138 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:40,800 Ah, perfect. 139 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:41,920 See, that's the perfect. 140 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,440 I have some twinkly lights. 141 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,040 Have a bare metal validator. 142 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,280 You know, you cut out there for a second, but you like twinkly likes. 143 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:49,440 I'm guessing that's what you like. 144 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,200 You want to see some, you want to see some like some sexy flashing LEDs. 145 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,680 That's what also induced me to delegate. 146 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,200 You know, nothing else. 147 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,640 That's just, you know, good to know when you get really professional and you put 148 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,840 a sticker of the logo of the network on the machine. 149 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,560 That's how you know you've truly made it as valid or when you can do that. 150 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:12,960 It's true. 151 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,440 Well, I assume that's what gets you a foundation delegation, right? 152 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,720 Like that's how you get a foundation delegation. 153 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:19,920 I think that's one step. 154 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,600 What that's one step above tattoo, right? 155 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:23,240 That's what I was going to say. 156 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:23,480 Yeah. 157 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,880 So tattoo is like where the station delegation goes in. 158 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:33,640 And then hardware sticker on hardware is one, one clearly more commitment than tattoo. 159 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,280 It's clearly what's going on. 160 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,000 Yeah. 161 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,320 I've not got access to the spreadsheets. 162 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:44,920 I don't know what the topics are meant to be. 163 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,880 So I mean, it doesn't really matter. 164 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:48,560 That's good. 165 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,160 I'll just carry on drinking then. 166 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,560 And you can, you can talk about hardware if you really want to. 167 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,080 And I'll wonder why I'm here. 168 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:55,240 I don't. 169 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,280 So what, so what is happening this week? 170 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:58,280 Benny, what have you got? 171 00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:01,160 I'm, I'm basking the LaVonna thing right now. 172 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,520 If we want to start talking about that, I find that utterly fascinating. 173 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:10,520 How LaVonna, so LaVonna has been like the most touted air, like what native 174 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,680 Airdrop Cosmos Airdrop launch in the last six months. 175 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,200 And the fact that it like pumped and then the market makers immediately tanked 176 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,120 it is just absolutely outrageous to me. 177 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,520 But, Ben, you probably know more about that than I do. 178 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,880 Well, I think you pretty much described it. 179 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:33,480 So it launches, I think, I think you could buy it to about 60 cents or something 180 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:34,360 pretty much immediately. 181 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,520 And then it went up to over a dollar fifty. 182 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:44,200 And then it listed on GMEC, I want to say it was something like that. 183 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:51,000 And went and then basically the market maker with a sledgehammer fist. 184 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,080 Oh, pause it up. 185 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,880 So I did to close the. 186 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:58,440 You're breaking up, dude. 187 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,840 Gap between like 170 and 30 cents. 188 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,440 And just send tips there. 189 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,200 And Sonny himself was tweeting about it and all sorts of stuff. 190 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,240 So pretty rough. 191 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,080 But I think the whole sequence thing is weird. 192 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,280 Certainly if you compare it to like what Tia did, Tia obviously have market makers 193 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,320 doing stuff for them. 194 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,880 That seems pretty straight off. 195 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,720 Bendy, I wonder if you should turn your video camera off to like spare some of the 196 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,640 bandwidth because you're cutting out pretty good. 197 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:32,880 Yeah, I think so. 198 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:34,200 It might be a good idea. 199 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,200 We're doing that. 200 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,600 Whereas like, look, I think that's probably the issue. 201 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,200 So so catching up on that. 202 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,040 So so it started like varnoid. 203 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,040 Here, I'll make it up. 204 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,360 So it started like 60 cents, right? 205 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,920 Like it's it started at like 60 cents or something similar to that, right? 206 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,760 And then you said it was pumping up to like a dollar 50 because I only saw it when it 207 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:56,760 actually hit coin get go. 208 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,880 Coin get go, I think didn't get listed till after launch, right? 209 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,160 It was like, I think it started like 80 cents or something because I think it was on the 210 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,680 way down because you said it was already in the over a dollar or something. 211 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,200 So yeah, yeah, it went up quite a bit. 212 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,480 So I, if I remember correctly, it launched at 50 or 60 cents. 213 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:19,480 And then due to the hype, due to the excitement, it pushed all the way up to like a dollar 214 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,720 50, two dollars. 215 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,240 Yeah. 216 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Oh, really? 217 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:23,720 And then, yeah. 218 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:29,120 And then suddenly it didn't like the day candle or the 15 minute candle is like, it 219 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:35,440 suddenly goes from that that number to like 40 cents or 50 cents in one fell swoop. 220 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,720 Yeah, right now it's that it's listed. 221 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,640 I think it's 32 right now. 222 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,360 It's down 64% in 24 hours. 223 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Oh, it's listed at 32 cents right now. 224 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:47,760 32 right now. 225 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,760 And at least that coin got go towards showing. 226 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:50,800 Wow. 227 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,920 So 32 and nine, actually 33. 228 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,760 So yeah, it looks like it was pretty, pretty brutal. 229 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:03,120 I mean, this is, it's so, but what, what I don't understand is what, why would market 230 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,440 makers be forcing down? 231 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,400 Like what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, 232 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,160 what, do you know what actions are taking that would force this amount? 233 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,080 I thought usually they were there to be able to be able to obviously prop up through 234 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:20,760 through actions, not necessarily take profits. 235 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:21,560 Yeah. 236 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:25,480 So it sounds like it was an odd situation gone wrong. 237 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:26,080 Right. 238 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,600 There's a currency between a dollar 70 and somewhere else. 239 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,640 I think I was most it seems like a dollar 70. 240 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,160 And then I see a different exchange, different decentralized exchange 241 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,160 were launched at the same time was like 30 or 40 cents. 242 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,080 And so rather than trying to like equalize them, they decided that the 30 cents 243 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,080 or whatever it was was the correct number. 244 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:49,760 And then did a single sell to try and drive it all the way down to the other side. 245 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:50,360 Right. 246 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:50,880 Right. 247 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,440 Which is like that's something I would pull as like, if not a trading, not a 248 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,120 market maker expert, I'd be like, I don't know. 249 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,480 Let's just like do a big like, seems like times right. 250 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:00,880 I don't know. 251 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:01,160 Yeah. 252 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:03,320 Like, oh shit. 253 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,120 But I'm also not an expert. 254 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,240 People don't pay me a market make, right? 255 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,520 They pay me to run servers. 256 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,080 That's so fun. 257 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,360 So like, even me, even me, I don't think that I would see, you know, the, 258 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,320 the slippage at like 80% and feel I would be like, I should probably not make 259 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,600 this move right now. 260 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Like you don't necessarily need to be an expert to recognize to not hit the button. 261 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:28,920 Yeah. 262 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:29,280 Yeah. 263 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:29,920 Exactly. 264 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:30,400 All right. 265 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:31,440 All right. 266 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:37,040 All right, Bendy's back much more festive situation, still no lampshades, better 267 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:37,840 wifi signal. 268 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,120 Hopefully. 269 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:43,320 So we'll see. 270 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,080 I mean, I probably need more blinking lights on my hardware. 271 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,040 Otherwise, connection last right. 272 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:51,120 Exactly. 273 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Yeah. 274 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,560 There's not too much of a lag between your lips and your sound. 275 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:54,560 That's good. 276 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:55,760 Yeah. 277 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,120 So, so that's, that's a hell of a, I mean, it really sucks for a team like that 278 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:01,240 too. 279 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,360 Like they've been working so hard on that. 280 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,200 And then what, I mean, say it went through a similar situation, right? 281 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,640 When, when the tokenomics came out, like right at launch, like there's, I guess 282 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,080 everybody, every new chain has a, it never starts 100% positively, right? 283 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,040 But, but shit like this always like leaves a, that's such a bad taste in people's 284 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:17,520 mouths for it. 285 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,080 Like they kind of, then they, then you start questioning the whole situation. 286 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:20,280 All right. 287 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Yeah. 288 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,320 And I think LaVanna obviously has a slightly troubled history dating back to 289 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:35,040 their NFT collection that essentially was considered at the time to be a bit of a 290 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,000 rug turns out, obviously not to be a new, you've got a bit of an air drop in 291 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,720 exchange for that early sport and stuff. 292 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:49,560 But it, it's a, it's a really good product, but absolutely terrible launch. 293 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:56,680 And, uh, you know, ultimately I'm probably bullish on the token because I 294 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:01,600 think that the protocol makes, it actually makes a revenue and it hasn't 295 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:07,480 even, you know, it's not been live very long, but would I buy anything right now? 296 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,680 We don't give financial advice on this podcast. 297 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:11,800 So I'm not going to say. 298 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:14,800 Well, yeah, that's an interesting thing, right? 299 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,400 Is that if you kind of look at it from more holistic perspective, so the 300 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,120 original, originally it was the dev wall, I think was accused of selling, if I 301 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,840 remember correctly, and that's where the Twitter was really focused on. 302 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,560 But if you kind of look at it from the dev's perspective, they make something 303 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:36,640 like $50,000 per week in trading fees, I think $50 per, $50,000 per week or per day. 304 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,720 It's some pretty decent number, honestly. 305 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,200 And so to drop the market, I think it's weak. 306 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:43,280 Okay. 307 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,640 So to drop the market so drastically for a $400,000 profit, it would just be 308 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:49,760 insane, right? 309 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:52,680 So I don't know, I feel bad for the devs as well. 310 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:54,960 Like that, assuming it wasn't them. 311 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,640 I don't think that we do know that it was the market maker that caused it to happen 312 00:13:58,640 --> 00:13:59,520 versus the dev wall. 313 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,040 They, Lovanna have said it was a market maker. 314 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,400 So Lovanna gave the market maker the tokens. 315 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,840 That's why it looks like a Lovanna foundation wallet. 316 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,760 I guess because basically it is, but they've given that to the market maker. 317 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,360 The market maker's off doing whatever they're kind of instructed to do, I guess. 318 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:27,480 Which is, I assume that it looks like they're targeting 30 cents as they're kind 319 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,880 of like, this is roughly what we think the price of Lovanna should be. 320 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,920 I don't know enough about how people do token launch as well. 321 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,800 But the whole sequencing of this and the way it's been done. 322 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,880 And, you know, Lovanna, there was a lot of stuff they didn't do brilliantly. 323 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,480 Like they didn't publish breakdowns on how the airdrop work. 324 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,040 So like some people are saying, I did do trading and I did register and you've 325 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,120 not given me an airdrop and people don't really know why because they don't know 326 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,760 how much volume they were meant to have done. 327 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Yeah. 328 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,880 And, you know, like I, I got the airdrop because I've been doing some leverage 329 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,080 trading, which previous, like, which I did to get the airdrop, right? 330 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,320 So that as a piece of marketing, it's worked. 331 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,040 And I've used the protocol and it's really good. 332 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,640 But like, I think in the end I've done like, because it's all leveraged, right? 333 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:28,240 But like 90,000 or something like that in terms of volume, which is, which 334 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,200 is seems like a lot of money to me, but I wouldn't know whether I just scraped in 335 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,840 or was like way over the threshold. 336 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,240 And if you don't tell people that kind of stuff, I can understand why people 337 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,240 get frustrated. 338 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,840 But you can tell it when they can just get it. 339 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,560 Right, like some sort of, like some sort of guidance, right? 340 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,520 If you tell everyone, then they can game it, right? 341 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:48,520 That's the problem. 342 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:49,520 Right. 343 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,520 I think you should tell it, at least when you make the airdrop, you should say 344 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,720 what the criteria was. 345 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,560 So even if it's perspective, so that you can at least know, oh, I missed out 346 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,960 by five cents or whatever it is. 347 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:00,800 Right. 348 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,800 I don't know. 349 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,840 I think the concept of airdrops are so fascinating. 350 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,560 I almost don't think that there should be any announcement. 351 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,560 There shouldn't be an explanation of where it came from. 352 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,800 Part of the point of an airdrop, my understanding is for proof 353 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:18,520 of stake chains is to get liquidity away so that the SEC has less of a claim 354 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,360 or some entity has less of a claim of it being a security. 355 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,360 Right. 356 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,160 Like you're trying to distribute it that way the market can kind of make itself. 357 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,600 And so are people entitled to an answer for where this airdrop came from that 358 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:38,760 they were like, why should they justify every single ounce of support for 359 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:40,680 like the airdrop? 360 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,760 I think it's useful for community. 361 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,760 Community building. 362 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,840 I think you can I suppose that's the problem. 363 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,480 There is cultures start to build up. 364 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,480 So we're used to transparency about what these things are. 365 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:52,720 So people expect it. 366 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,880 And then if you don't do it, the team gets shit. 367 00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:00,320 But I think it's interesting because there's no actual reason like Lovano 368 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,000 isn't a proof of stake token, right? 369 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,840 It's just a token doesn't do it literally does nothing right now. 370 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:19,640 It is just as much use as Cerberus or puppy or newt, all of which are, you know, hold 371 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,640 on now, you can't be thrown shade at newt right now. 372 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:23,640 All right. 373 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,160 I have a financial invested interest in the success of newt. 374 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:30,240 So you can hold off on that. 375 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,880 I mean, I I I love newt too. 376 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,640 But what I'm saying is Lovano is doing Lovano is just a mean point right now. 377 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,280 It doesn't secure a chain. 378 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:42,600 It doesn't give you revenue. 379 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,520 You can't vote. 380 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,040 It gives you nothing. 381 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:50,520 There's the future possibility of governance and other stuff after that. 382 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,800 But, you know, newt's going to do far more than that. 383 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:56,040 It's going to secure the hub as far as I can tell. 384 00:17:58,360 --> 00:17:59,240 So next step. 385 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:05,240 So I thought that Lovano actually was going to do revenue sharing in it. 386 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,720 If not, then I guess kind of what's what's what's I think that's what they're 387 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,080 saying they're going to do. 388 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,720 But they they aren't like there's nowhere for me to stay right now. 389 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,640 Unless I've missed it, there's nowhere for me to state my Lovano to earn revenue. 390 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,800 And there's no governance that's going to enforce that. 391 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,400 So like when Stride launched, if you remember, everyone was 392 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,840 shitty about it because it's just another farming token. 393 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,280 Everyone's just going to dump it. 394 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,280 Dada, Dada, Dada. 395 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,160 And actually what happened is governance passed a proposal when 396 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,760 see that money that goes to the foundation. 397 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,240 Just could you direct that over to Stakers? 398 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,040 And that's what happened because that was governance, right? 399 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,680 But if you don't turn governance on, the community can't take the money away 400 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,640 from your foundation and you can keep telling them that you're 401 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:57,960 going to give them revenue in the future. 402 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,800 It's a cunning, cunning plan. 403 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,360 I'm I'm I'm flooding a bit there, but like they haven't worked it out yet. 404 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,960 They were that seemed quite clear from the spaces I listened to. 405 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,680 They don't know what they're doing in the like immediate steps. 406 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,400 They have a plan, but they haven't worked out what the steps to that dance are yet. 407 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,040 I mean, that's the way to do it, right? 408 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,160 Like that was the entire NFT craze of 2021 is you say, hey, we're going to 409 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,120 get these NFTs and these these NFTs, they're going to you're going to play games with them. 410 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,360 You are going to look at them in the metaverse. 411 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,680 But listen, you can't do that right now. 412 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,120 That's this is this is like six years down the line. 413 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,200 Just meant the next NFT series that comes out next. 414 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,000 And then once that happens, OK, well, just meant the next one. 415 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,120 That seems a bit funny as well. 416 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:42,840 I'm not I'm not quite that jaded. 417 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,000 I'm just growing parallels. 418 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,240 The thing the thing here is, is that what I suppose I am saying is 419 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,000 that I don't buy Lovanna by Newt because 420 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,520 Lava and the five's future hinges on it. 421 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,080 And from my point of view, as I delegate a lot of stuff to Lava and the five, 422 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,880 I want to have more Twinkly lights on their on their hardware. 423 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,000 Full circle, baby. 424 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,720 All comes back around to more Twinkly lights on hardware. 425 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,160 That means more newt. 426 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,880 Yes. 427 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,080 It's called it's called Game of Newt for a reason. 428 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,880 That's right. 429 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,880 But I think it's interesting, actually, because newt got a lot of fud 430 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,960 for launching in the way that it did, which was there's just a load of newt in an LP. 431 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,800 No airdrop, no, no, nothing, just buy it if you like it. 432 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,880 And obviously, that's really different from the way that the majority of tokens 433 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,680 in Cosmos are distributed. 434 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:41,680 And so 435 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,240 golden ratio is getting is getting a load of abuse for being a whale 436 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,600 who's going to dump on everyone and, you know, 437 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,640 bug them for however much their stack of newt is worth. 438 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,680 And this was one of the things they published a rich list of all the big 439 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,200 wallets that had all of these huge numbers of tokens. 440 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,440 But they included things like the tokens that are in the LP and the tokens 441 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,840 that are in the IBC addresses, because the PIC is the biggest 442 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,400 IBC addresses, because the people posting the list haven't got a clue 443 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,160 what what that list actually means. 444 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,400 So they've just posted a list of stuff and got 445 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,360 it's my favorite kind of fud is the fud with zero evidence. 446 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,280 It's the same as the people saying that it was the LaVanna Foundation, 447 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:34,320 like five minutes research is before you post that solves that problem for you. 448 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:40,480 I saw that that that complaint as well with newt that it had no airdrop. 449 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,360 It was just stick in the LP and then who wants to buy it by. 450 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,960 I like it. I'm fond of that. 451 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:46,800 I think that's awesome. 452 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,600 Now, I think the big downside of that, of course, is that, you know, 453 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,800 whoever makes it is going to go, oh, I put it in the LP and then I bought 454 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,160 a thousand dollars worth and that thousand dollars because it was worth 455 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,520 basically nothing originally. 456 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,400 Now you have like 10 million coins or whatever. 457 00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,760 Right. That's lame. 458 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:05,120 But otherwise, this kind of make turns into an organic price discovery. 459 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,160 Well, I think also, like, I mean, again, it's, you know, 460 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,800 but I think the person, as far as I understand it, I think it was 461 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,120 eight thousand dollars worth of atom or something. 462 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,320 They they burnt they burnt their LP shares, right? 463 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,040 So that person's already invested an amount of money. 464 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,960 I don't see why they shouldn't see some upside on that. 465 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,760 I think the challenge with a lot of this is about 466 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,600 how are you as the person that creates that meme coin and the people that get 467 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:40,440 in early and the community as a whole able to have fun and not love your fun? 468 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,120 Because, yeah, you could you can do it. 469 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,480 And people to this algorithm 470 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,240 during the bull run, there was this really easy 471 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:55,400 UI that allowed you to mint a shit coin, distribute it, set up an LP, 472 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,640 do all this stuff and it's like five button clicks. 473 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,600 It's brilliant. 474 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,200 But essentially, it was just a way for people with the best shit coin name 475 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,880 and a bit of liquidity to make real tokens off their shit coin. 476 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,640 Excellent, excellent thing. 477 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,760 And I guess the project that had the, you know, the minty button 478 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,000 probably made a bit of money off that. 479 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:20,760 But if you actually want this to be a fun thing, then you're not that. 480 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,960 Even if you get in early, you're not going to just dump on the community 481 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,240 because otherwise the fun thing is over. 482 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,760 And I think that's what what's been interesting for me is the fact that the idea 483 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,600 that you could have fun and make profit in Cosmos seem to bring a lot of new users 484 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,720 and volume to Astroport to the point where it needed more blinky lights on its hardware. 485 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:41,800 Right. 486 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,520 It certainly has need a lot of blinky lights on its hardware. 487 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,000 Yeah. Yeah, I know. 488 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,720 I feel bad for what? 489 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:48,560 No, go ahead. 490 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,720 I was that kind of feel bad because I was I was in the new telegram pretty early on 491 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,280 and I was throwing them shade because they were like going down. 492 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,840 I was like, listen, I've got all these notes back to have just just pointed out 493 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,600 my hardware for a while and like, it'll be fine. 494 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:02,200 Yeah. 495 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,840 So for a couple of days, they were like, no, no, we got bolted down. 496 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,080 We're good. 497 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,360 But yeah, I threw them quite a bit of shade for that. 498 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,520 Like I have notes. 499 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,560 I've gotten a ray of notes that you can point out. 500 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,240 It'll work fine. 501 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,160 You don't need to use public stuff. 502 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,840 But I'm just going. 503 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,360 I guess they were I think they were using they had their own notes initially. 504 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:25,040 And then and then in the bear, like it was expensive notes, right? 505 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,840 So so I understand that they wanted to go public or at least or at least I think it 506 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,680 was probably a mix of different types of node structures that were supplying that data. 507 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,760 But just recently, so we took over some mass report 508 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,920 traffic this week and even in the last like like literally the last two days is 509 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:46,720 really what it started. 510 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,080 But yesterday on the 18th, I guess, was Wednesday. 511 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,240 I'm sorry, Monday night. 512 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,480 So Monday night, like even on injective, 513 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,800 they were doing a lot of catch up because the indexers were catching up and things 514 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,440 like that. And like we were still getting 20, like 2000 to 4000 requests a second 515 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:09,880 on injective and another another six or 700 on different chains. 516 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,240 And then today, which was fine, like everything was great, like things were 517 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,600 catching up and then say had some. 518 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,200 Is there some meme stuff going on and say today too or yesterday? 519 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,640 Say has inscriptions right now going on. 520 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,560 Oh, there's something else. 521 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,120 I think there's something else on Astroport too, let's say. 522 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,400 Because we we we provide some endpoints there. 523 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,040 And then there was a huge amount of say traffic for a little bit too. 524 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:38,360 And then today on Astroport, we we started to feel that the real wrath of of of shit coins. 525 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,280 So like on injective, it went from which was totally fine, like two, three, four 526 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:49,200 thousand a second, and we had a couple spikes of eight and 11,000 transactions a second 527 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,560 or 11,000 requests a second. 528 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,000 And injective does not do well with that. 529 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,560 So with a with a small handful of nodes at 11,000, like they were struggling. 530 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,920 So we set up another one today. 531 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,320 And then and then I guess it was also a significant amount of requests coming from 532 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:07,400 a specific region. 533 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,840 And so the Astroport teams to put a little bit of a little bit of breaks on a 534 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,280 specific region that was like overly doing requests. 535 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,600 And so that really helped out. 536 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,360 And so now now we're sitting right here actually as we're talking, it's at seventy 537 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,840 eight hundred a second. 538 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,600 And I have some breaks built in on the back end to like just so the point where 539 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,120 the node doesn't shit the bed, which it was like it was like it was just it would 540 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:33,640 just give it up. I mean, you know that too, right? 541 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,640 They would just stop responding. 542 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,960 It would just sit there and it would it would move the blocks any forward. 543 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,080 It would it wouldn't respond to anything. 544 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,800 It wouldn't even say that it wasn't sinking anymore. 545 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,600 It would just like and so. 546 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:45,960 So yeah, so that was fun. 547 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,120 So that was kind of a firefight this morning because we were I think living 548 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:51,080 out as we're starting to it's like crazy, trying to get them to stay at least 549 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,960 close to the head and and and we had a couple of times when they're all of them 550 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,880 were down at the same time for like 30 seconds. 551 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,960 So it was ugly for a couple of times today, but now it's actually started to 552 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,080 lay down and then it also I think the other thing I know that team is working on 553 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,280 right now, it's not a very efficient site. 554 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,920 Like there's a lot of requests per page view where 555 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,360 where there's there's a lot of things there to like move that away from 556 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,400 straight RPC calls and sense over G RPC, which is obviously 557 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,760 a little bit less taxing and less open ports and that kind of stuff and 558 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:30,360 and our open connections and then and I think just the efficiency of using 559 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,720 indexes more for when you can use those types of things and and what can come 560 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,840 out of the back end versus what can go out of the client. 561 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:36,560 So yeah. 562 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,280 So anyway, 11,000 injective RPC requests a second is just too much. 563 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,480 Like it's just like you can't have that's like five or six nodes to actually 564 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,360 make that thing deal with it. 565 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:48,160 And that's just too much. 566 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:57,920 So if the actual ball market came back, you know, tomorrow, how screwed 567 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,240 would all of Cosmos's infrastructure be? 568 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,760 Because I assume everyone has scaled down, right? 569 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,920 Like what you're describing with Astroport, they've scaled down for the bear. 570 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:06,640 Save money. 571 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:07,520 Very sensible. 572 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,080 If everyone suddenly went, wow, this is shit. 573 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:18,440 And, you know, we saw the mean point season times three happening. 574 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,240 How screwed how screwed would we be? 575 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,080 I mean, I don't know. 576 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,640 You I mean, Schultz again, just to I think you'd have some you'd have some 577 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,440 not great user experiences for a short period of time and how fast those 578 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,120 teams react to that and understand it. 579 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,240 I think you can solve that problem pretty quick. 580 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,360 Like this stuff today, I mean, stuff like this injective stuff. 581 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:40,240 I mean, it's ugly this morning, but that I mean, that was for a very good reason 582 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,920 that I think is very solvable and trying to separate what's good traffic from bad 583 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,040 traffic, I think also helps. 584 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,080 So I think the other piece, we were talking about this with the it's not 585 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,800 only just that, but it's also like liquidity makes a big deal here too. 586 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,880 Because like that Stargaze stuff that was going on with people buying bad kids, 587 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,800 I think you probably saw a bunch of stories on Twitter this week. 588 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,440 And that was an infrastructure base. 589 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,840 That was purely like, you know, we I transferred in this much 590 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,080 ethernet and we had a huge amount of slippage or something else happened 591 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,960 because there's enough liquidity in the pools, like all those types of things 592 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:13,640 kind of happen too. 593 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:13,880 Right. 594 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,200 So I don't know. 595 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,960 It depends on also, also I think some of the stuff. 596 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,360 The other thing is like, like each of these sites, I think it's quite different 597 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,880 in terms of efficiency, right? 598 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,360 And not it's just because just because it was 11,000 RPC requests to 599 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,400 injective today, doesn't necessarily mean that that's that's probably 600 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,840 only 5,600 concurrent users. 601 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,240 So, so at 500 users, it's not a big deal. 602 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,000 Right. 603 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,720 And so this is just like this, this is just a blockchain is a really 604 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,720 inefficient database and it's a, it's a poor solution for these types of things. 605 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,600 And so there has to be a balance of like showing data that's slightly old 606 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,920 because it's indexed and cash versus literally hitting hundreds of contracts 607 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,440 43 times in every single pull or equal every single page view. 608 00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:58,640 Right. 609 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,600 Like it's just not, there has to be, there has to be a balance between those. 610 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,360 And some of the data has to be real time and I get that, but some of that stuff, 611 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,200 like it has to be better solutions for that, right? 612 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,000 Or smarter architectures for that. 613 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:08,760 Yeah. 614 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,920 Um, to, to answer your question a little bit as well around what it'll look like 615 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,000 for, um, for, for people that if, if the know what hardware can keep up secret, 616 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,560 I think is a really good example of this. 617 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,120 Um, secret. 618 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,840 I think was really set up to be very successful early on. 619 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,840 Um, and what ended up happening was NFTs started to become big and secret NFTs are 620 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,560 actually really cool because there's all sorts of metadata and stuff you can hide. 621 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,480 Um, because, you know, they're all encrypted and everything. 622 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,360 So you can, you're like, you can choose what's available to see and what's not. 623 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,960 But anyway, I'm getting off topic. 624 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,800 Um, so when these men started happening, all men team was happening behind five 625 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:57,440 nodes provided by a, a node provider and it would go down inevitably. 626 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,440 And it's just like a minute. 627 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,560 And then it would take them 12, 16, 20 hours to get it back up and then immediately 628 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:03,200 go down again. 629 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,800 And so if I remember early on, there were tens of thousands of users are secret 630 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,280 and in 2021. 631 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,200 And after every single NFT mint, you would see just a colossal drop off of users 632 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,280 because they'd be like, Hey, I got on this. 633 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,560 I'm all excited about this mint. 634 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,440 And I can't actually do it because the infrastructure is too bad. 635 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:30,040 Um, and it was unfortunate because the provider that was, was giving the nodes 636 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,840 or was being paid for the, for the nodes, they just wouldn't scale up. 637 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,120 They, they were kind of unresponsive and that's just not going to happen. 638 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:44,960 If, if, if one of our teams that are actually like supporting hardware is involved, right? 639 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,160 Like if I start seeing a bunch of five or three's pop up, even though my, even 640 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,520 though the person that I'm, you know, providing nodes for might not be paying 641 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,640 more, like I'm going to do something to at least make it more efficient to make it work. 642 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,200 Like I'm trying to provide a good product. 643 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,920 Um, this sounds like I'm kind of throwing some shade at the provider that was doing 644 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,000 it and I kind of am, but I'm not going to name names. 645 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,840 Uh, but it's a great example of what will happen. 646 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,280 I would, if we don't, I would much prefer it if you did name names. 647 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,000 I think this, you know, let's have, let's have a culture of transparency for people 648 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:19,160 that do a shitty job because like, because the problem is, is that, and this is the 649 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,840 thing, right for you, this is a professional thing. 650 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,880 You don't want to throw shade at people there. 651 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:31,520 But for me, I remember secret is so shit it can't be 10 FT's. 652 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,240 And that damages everyone. 653 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,400 That damages every project on secret. 654 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,200 It damages every token holder on secret. 655 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,080 And that's because someone's running five nodes. 656 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,240 They can't be bothered to upgrade. 657 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,880 And I think after getting paid a hundred thousand dollars. 658 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:54,800 That, and this is the thing where like, I'm not huge for professionally flaming people. 659 00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:02,280 But I also think that is this, like, if you are in a position of responsibility, then 660 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:07,920 you have to deal with the consequences of when you are in dereliction of your duty. 661 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,040 And I think that that's probably unfair to then just say that you as a competitor 662 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:13,880 should out them. 663 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:21,320 But I think that's a space where the foundation, the protocol, whoever it is needs to step 664 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,040 up and actually say, this supplier has let us down. 665 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,720 And I think that's very difficult. 666 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,800 And I've been in that position in the real world of chain. 667 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,840 But in that position, ultimately, that's relatively private. 668 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,560 The problem on blockchains is, as I say, every single person that has a secret token 669 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,560 suffers from it. 670 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,600 Every single person that has a secret token suffers because that person or that company 671 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,160 isn't doing a good job as a provider. 672 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:55,160 So I used to work in concerts and ticketing and that kind of stuff. 673 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,680 And obviously, as you know, you'll have all tried to buy tickets to gigs where the website 674 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:00,360 crashes, right? 675 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,480 You know, that's completely normal. 676 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:10,960 But like, there's only so much you can scale up your website to cope with Taylor Swift 677 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,080 for about an hour and the rest of the time, you don't need it. 678 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,320 So that's really awkward. 679 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,440 And you have frank and open conversations, but ultimately, you don't throw anyone under 680 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,320 the bus afterwards because you all know it's hard. 681 00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:26,360 Like, that's fair. 682 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,040 But there's no long term damage. 683 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,160 Or if there is, that's when you do start to see the names of the companies involved 684 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,440 because an artist like Taylor Swift, like the incident that happened with Ticketmaster, 685 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,680 she does not want that reputational damage coming on her. 686 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,120 So artist management speak to the promoters, the promoters speak to all the ticketing providers 687 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,400 and they just throw them under the bus. 688 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,720 And that's kind of the price you're paying, right? 689 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,600 But I think this look, yeah, sorry, go ahead. 690 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:58,680 To add what you're saying, I'll definitely give, okay, I'll give Kepler some props here 691 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,760 because early on, I don't think most people understood kind of how Kepler worked. 692 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,320 You know, Kepler is an interface basically for the RPCs, right? 693 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,040 That's all it is. 694 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,720 It's a wallet. 695 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,680 And people understand that. 696 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,800 But a lot of people kind of think that, or I would say that most people think that Kepler, 697 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,360 for secret, they thought that Kepler was running the notes. 698 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:24,000 And so Kepler got so much flack for whenever the notes would go to sync, right? 699 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,440 And they were always very gracious about it, like, hey, they never named names, 700 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,920 even though like I checked their GitHub and I could see that they knew who it was and everything. 701 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,320 I don't know. 702 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,400 So I guess it's an example of Kepler was always very gracious about like things going down. 703 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,920 They're like, hey, it's out of our control. 704 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,560 But then I don't, as far as more, they never named names. 705 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,000 And I think there's a balance, right? 706 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,160 Like you have to be professional. 707 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:56,160 But I think the example you're talking about where it starts to damage the reputation of 708 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,280 a whole load of associated stuff is much harder. 709 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,040 And I think it's really difficult if you're a L1. 710 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:09,760 So if the poor performance of Astroport starts to damage people's perception of neutron, 711 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:15,120 as neutron, would you start to be like, that's concerning for you, right? 712 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,120 You can't control what RPCs these guys, you know, what notes these guys are using, 713 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,600 what they're connecting to and who they're being supplied by. 714 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,280 But it's having brand damage to you. 715 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,600 And I think that's one of the really interesting structural challenges of blockchains compared 716 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:33,280 to what I'm describing in the kind of Web 2 world where it's just like, well, I employ 717 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,080 these people, they employ their subcontractors and that's it. 718 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,400 Like that isn't kind of how we work. 719 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,440 The reputation of damage can spread out quite quickly to all sorts of other things, you know, 720 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,040 slippage on stars is too high, cosmos is shit. 721 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,240 While we're talking, we're back up to 11,000 transactions a second. 722 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:52,000 I already request a second. 723 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,440 So I'm just watching these do-its. 724 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,200 They're holding on though, doing a little bit of secret shit. 725 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,840 I'm just queuing requests is all I'm doing. 726 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,000 Which I think is the best I can do is just when that request comes in from the client, 727 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:12,640 just hold on to it until it, there's an open slot and then be able to pass it to you. 728 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,920 I mean, these nodes are not, I don't think they're really architected for really high RPC usage. 729 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:23,280 Like I could think we probably say the same thing on any Web or any blockchain node. 730 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,480 I can't think of maybe, I mean, I don't even know, Schultz, if you can think of one. 731 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:32,480 I can't think of one that like is architected around as like a web server handling 20,000 732 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:33,840 requests a second, right? 733 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,360 Like, I don't know, I don't know. 734 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,240 I don't know. 735 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:37,040 I don't know. 736 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:37,760 I don't know. 737 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:38,320 I don't know. 738 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:38,720 I don't know. 739 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:39,200 I don't know. 740 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:39,760 I don't know. 741 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,240 I don't know. 742 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:40,720 I don't know. 743 00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:41,360 I don't know. 744 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,560 I don't know how to request a second, right? 745 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,600 Like that doesn't exist. 746 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:50,640 Oh, you know that I'm going to take any opportunity I can to be an absolute stand for NIR. 747 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,960 NIR didn't strip inscriptions recently. 748 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,360 We didn't even realize because they handle it so well. 749 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,640 So they had an insane amount of transactions running for like three days straight. 750 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:01,520 Didn't even realize. 751 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,000 I mean, I think that's pretty good because we saw it on AppTose like the same thing, 752 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,160 right? 753 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,800 Because even the, we saw the full node struggling with the amount of API calls. 754 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:11,920 And those are even that wasn't that much. 755 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,640 It was like a couple hundred a second coming in in each node, right? 756 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,280 And it was struggling. 757 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,040 Although I'm not sure if that much of it was API based, but right now, 758 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,920 like other things we've seen, unlike Stargaze, we've seen more. 759 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,160 But I think BlockTime has a big thing to do too. 760 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,760 I saw Reese commented in the structure around caching the request. 761 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,160 Some of these are just not cashable. 762 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,920 I mean, this is a, you have a blockchain with 600 millisecond BlockTimes 763 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,840 that are calling wasm contract calls. 764 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,680 Like that, that, that is a very difficult response to be able to cash in any sort of 765 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,920 realistic perspective, especially since you have a wide variety of contract calls that 766 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:46,960 are being happening. 767 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,760 And I don't have the metrics in terms of what that repeatability is in there. 768 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,200 And there might be some in there, but it's not massive. 769 00:38:53,760 --> 00:39:00,560 So I think, I mean, caching this in a, in a, and maybe, and what we've been told is like 770 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,120 that data needs to be 100% up to date on the latest block, which again, 771 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,240 we can make a decision on whether how much that really needs to have happen, 772 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,480 or if, if that can be cashed for 10 seconds or something similar that it's very easy to be able 773 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,440 to do. So, so, but up to this point, we haven't. 774 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,200 So that's, I think that might be working with that team to architect what's, 775 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,320 what's kind of next, but whether that's front end or whether that's back end. 776 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,600 I would rather have it be, to be honest. 777 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,960 I would push back a little bit there. 778 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,480 I think there's quite a bit that could be cashed. 779 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,200 So I don't, I don't know what as report is using, but I know that the Python API, 780 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,680 anything you do has, I think five, four or five transactions with it. 781 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,600 And the first two are always exactly the same. 782 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,920 The first one's always to, it checks the status of the node, 783 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:47,680 and then there's something else. 784 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,960 And those are things that I think probably should be cashed. 785 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,600 Like if it's on a purse, like per block base of 1000 to people, 786 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,040 then it's like, if it's just checking the status endpoint, then who cares? 787 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,960 Like, that doesn't actually mean anything. 788 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,400 That doesn't actually mean anything. 789 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:00,800 Right? 790 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,680 So that would be 20% kicked off right off the top. 791 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,680 I don't know. 792 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,400 Nothing pushing back and saying you're wrong, just that I think that there is a lot of cash 793 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,320 because there's a lot of inefficiencies. 794 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,720 Because I got kind of deep into this early on whenever I was, 795 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:14,880 I started writing the back end for live under five and I was like, 796 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,720 how am I rate limiting myself? 797 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,600 And I was like, okay, because this doesn't make any sense. 798 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:20,080 That's why. 799 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:20,800 All right, got it. 800 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:21,680 Perfect. 801 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:21,920 Yeah. 802 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,920 I mean, none of these are like status hits. 803 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,280 There's no, that's in here. 804 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,640 This is all contract balances. 805 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:28,160 Okay. 806 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:28,560 Interesting. 807 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,360 That's quite different. 808 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:29,600 Yeah. 809 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,720 They're probably using CosmJS or something, which is more efficient. 810 00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:32,800 Yeah. 811 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,720 CosmPy, not to throw too much shade at it. 812 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:36,480 It's simply not used as frequently. 813 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,240 And so it doesn't have the same resources. 814 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:38,960 Yeah. 815 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:39,600 Yeah. 816 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,280 That's a, that's a, it's a good question. 817 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:47,600 So anyway, I think now that, now that these numbers are not going down, 818 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,320 and maybe they will over time, it actually, these like this, 819 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:51,520 everything here is holding on. 820 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,760 Like it's not that big of a, I mean, it's not awful. 821 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,360 It's just like, I think the, the binary just depending on what, what's actually being, 822 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,480 what's actually being pulled, you can kind of see, 823 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,200 you can see some of these nodes struggling after a period of time when, 824 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,480 when they're just under that amount of stress for that long, 825 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,040 with those maybe more complicated calls that are coming in. 826 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:16,160 So, yeah, I think there's, right now it's a little bit brute force. 827 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,040 And I think over time it'll get, it'll get better. 828 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,400 It seems like there is a something of a, like a, 829 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:29,040 like a inverse correlation of block speed to how much each actual node can handle. 830 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,760 Like say, it doesn't seem like it can handle a lot of input per node from what I could tell. 831 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,480 Like it does great. 832 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,320 It goes fast and everything, but it seems like Stargaze handles 833 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,200 attention, node attention better than, than say nodes do, if that makes sense. 834 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,160 They require more, more requests per second for Stargaze than it does for say. 835 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,920 I think it might be inverse to block time a little bit. 836 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:53,120 So like it takes longer to process or because it's expected to take less time to process it. 837 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,480 Or more blocks. 838 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,720 I mean, it sounds like it has a, a, 839 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:00,480 it's not a snapshot of the whole chain in time, right? 840 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,880 Or maybe more blocks to be able to create the output or I don't know exactly how that is, 841 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,480 but it seems like they're somehow related there. 842 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,720 Or maybe the nodes is too busy dealing with P2P and all this other shit, right? 843 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,320 And then it, then it has time for in terms of producing the result that's required. 844 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,880 But, but yeah, I definitely, I would, I agree with you. 845 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:27,040 Like over time, faster block time and does, does seem to limit then just the, the pure number, 846 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,000 although in SAVE, actually, I mean, actually these numbers are higher than SAVE. 847 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,440 So I can't really talk about it. 848 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,880 SAVE, I think we've, we usually structure like two or 3000 a second, which is still, 849 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,880 I mean, honestly, it's a decent amount of traffic. 850 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,400 Like it's, it's a lot of data. 851 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,000 So right now I'm just, I'm just taking a look and see as long as the nodes are staying active, 852 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,440 which they are, they're, they're right at the top within, I mean, I'm just, 853 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,640 I'm just watching the head here and they're all within two blocks and I'm updating every two 854 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:57,280 seconds. So it seems like they're fine. And I am, I am stalling some requests out. 855 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:03,440 So I just, I basically limit how many connections per node concurrently. 856 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,320 And then depending on, it's weird because it's like 400 connections per node. 857 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,800 It can't have more than 400, 400 actual TCP connections per node actually times two, 858 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:20,480 it's 800 per node. And that equates to about 2000 to 3000 requests a second. 859 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,320 Because the requests are obviously, 860 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:25,600 Why, why does it times two? 861 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,960 I'm sorry. Cause I have two balancers. Sorry. 862 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:30,480 I'm limiting each balance. 863 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:31,360 Okay, I was like, yeah, yeah. 864 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:32,560 Sorry. 865 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:33,280 Got it. 866 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,960 Inside baseball there. Yeah. Sorry. 867 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,120 Two balancers. So each of those is, each of those is cut in half. So yes, that's right. 868 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:39,680 Sorry about that. 869 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,040 I have 100% glazed over at this point. 870 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,080 Sorry. 871 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:49,120 You can, no, this is why me coming on a validators podcast is no use. Cause like, 872 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,520 I know all the other stuff, but the actual bits of like, how the blinking lights work is, 873 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,520 you know, gobbledygook to me, but you know, I'm sure if Gray and Null were here, 874 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,840 they would just think very excited. 875 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:07,600 Just think of a really inefficient global database with, with like tons of issues. 876 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,720 That's mutable. That's mute. That can be changed. 877 00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:13,280 That can be changed. 878 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,880 That requires a lot more power. 879 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:16,720 Like those everywhere. 880 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:18,880 And it's significantly slower. 881 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,960 Significantly slower. 882 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,560 And that's very secret for a lot of these assumptions. 883 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:26,320 Yeah. 884 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,600 The dirty secret for a lot of these is a lot of these apps will be running with like postgres in the 885 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,760 background. It's like, don't say anything. 886 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,120 So like if you hear like someone's using an indexer, yeah, they're probably using 887 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,680 postgres or something, which is, you know, an actual reasonable database rather than, 888 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,160 I mean, that's what I'm doing. That's what I do with my backend is I consume the database and 889 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,560 then I put it into postgres so I can consume it faster. 890 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,560 That's right. It's one indexer. That's what they are. 891 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,360 I mean, honestly, like, I'm actually thinking the actual web hits here, 892 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,400 like these numbers are nothing. Like these are, these are like, these are, these are nothing, 893 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:03,120 right? But the amount of power that requires to actually get that data to return it compared 894 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:08,080 to other methods is, you know, whatever, but it is, you know, it's on chain. It's right there. 895 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,320 It's just a matter of, I guess it goes back to, back to the UI and back to the front end. 896 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,640 Like it's not just, it has to be more than just throwing requests at a, at a backend. 897 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,320 Like it has to be some engineering there and trying to really identify what's important, 898 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,240 what's not, which going back to Stargate is not to keep bringing them up, but like kudos to that 899 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,640 team. Cause like Hori and that team, they have done so much work over the time we've been working 900 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:33,040 together the last three years that the number of requests that even our nodes see, like we've 901 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:39,520 we've continued to loot, to remove nodes from the balancers because it is so efficient that 902 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,440 it requires less and less hardware to be able to keep that, that site common. 903 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,960 And that's, that's really a testament to them, right? Stargate strikes me as like, 904 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,640 when I asked the question about like, how bad will it be when the bull market comes in terms of 905 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:57,200 infrastructure, Stargate strikes me as an outsider. Like, yeah, I remember like it occasionally had 906 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:04,880 issues, but for the most part, like super popular mint, fine, not a problem. Can cope. The problems 907 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:12,880 for Stargaze are all around liquidity, right? So I was listening to a friend of the podcast, 908 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:19,440 Rama was, he's got a prop up or coming on chain very soon. So this liquidity dial for Stargaze, 909 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:25,120 where they're going to take some of the community pool and use it as kind of protocol on liquidity 910 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:33,600 to deepen the pools on various chains. And, you know, that that seems like more of an issue for 911 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:40,800 how Stargaze will perform in the, you know, bull than actually how the tech will hold up. The tech 912 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:47,920 seems very robust, but I don't like I was talking to him about when after the filter minted, I think 913 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:54,320 they sort of went, oh, the mint price will be like 30 bucks or something. And probably by the time 914 00:46:54,320 --> 00:47:01,120 the mint roll around, the mint price was like 45 bucks. And that's one of those things where 915 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,960 people are excited, they're buying the token, the token price is going up token price comes 916 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,760 straight back down after the mint bike because everyone's right, right. But and there's not 917 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,440 a lot of reason to hold stars other than in those moments. Right. But it shouldn't be that a one 918 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,640 collection moves the price that much that team can't plan what price they want to launch at it 919 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,200 roughly. You know, obviously things fluctuate, but for it to go up 50% or something like that's 920 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,800 just not, it's not helpful to the team when they're trying to plan. So I think, but I think like 921 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:37,600 actually tech wise, it looks like stars has no obvious, you know, like it's held up to anything 922 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,840 that's been popular. Yeah. Yeah, it's done pretty well. Like, I think again, back to that team, 923 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:47,840 like we are weekly months, jump to only about maybe two or 3000 requests a second, 924 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:54,400 which is not that big of a deal. And then just recently, we brought all the image manipulation 925 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,840 in house, which has been really cool. So they, they used to use a third party site for that that 926 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:04,400 would pull data out of like IPFS and then that would restructure that for different sizes. 927 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,840 But that now that's now internally within our infrastructure, which is really cool. 928 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:14,400 Oh, it really said, yeah, we pulled all that in. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So that that's using a, 929 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:19,120 so, so if there's like a new, so if you actually go to the site and bring up any collection, 930 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:24,240 and you'll see like, you'll see some images that like fuzzy load, that's all Vercell doing that. 931 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:28,240 But those images are being served off of the Stargates array, the array that we built. 932 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,480 And then those get cash within cloudflare and distribute globally and those types of things. 933 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,760 So it's something that Stargates dot zone in case anyone is listening. That's right. Exactly. 934 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,680 If you haven't yet mentioned something. So that that's really good to be in site. So really, 935 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:47,440 like right now, there's no part of this infrastructure. I think that's not within the team, 936 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:54,720 including the indexers, obviously constellations through Penso, all the images, IPFS, 937 00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,480 all the RPC and everything else is all internally. And then obviously that with the stuff that's 938 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,080 going on with swaps and all that other kind of things, those services keep growing, right? 939 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,000 And that's all using the same kind of baseline. So I would agree with you like that that 940 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,760 infrastructure that that team has built has been has been awesome. Like there's, 941 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,160 it's just a really well engineered thing in the site. I think the site is actually really fast. 942 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,560 It's very responsive. The images are very responsive now. We're in the past, so things 943 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,200 took a little bit longer. Everything's edge, like it's all cash locally. And you know, 944 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,800 there's a lot of data on the site too. Like if you look at it, there's just like each, 945 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,640 go to it. I mean, you go to like a collection page or say a shitload of data, right? You have 946 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,640 all these prices and when it was listed and when it was listed for and like, you know, 947 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,000 all the filter on the metadata and the images themselves, there's just a shitload there. So 948 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,680 I mean, that's all the front end team doing all that work, which is pretty cool. Yeah. So I don't 949 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:53,840 know. The Stargaze conversations, again, going like circle back around to the secret stuff, 950 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,320 just for a little bit, the conversation around Stargaze, I think is really interesting because 951 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:07,120 I'm going to post a link to Stash in the chat. Stash was Secret's big NFT playground, right? 952 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:12,160 And it has a lot of really cool features. And by rights, it should, 953 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:19,120 like Secret should have just skyrocketed with how cool this site, less so now, was. Like now, 954 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:23,200 they require email to sign up on a couple of other things. And so I understand why they would do that, 955 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:30,960 but this is just, this is a great example of going like coming full circle of Stargaze has always 956 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:37,280 operated really well. They, I'm pretty sure they launched after Secret's NFT marketplace, right? 957 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,040 If Secret had done well, why would Stargaze have like it shouldn't, nothing should have happened 958 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:46,480 to Stargaze, but Stargaze, I was always really reliable. It always had a good user experience. 959 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,560 And so people stayed there and they continue minting there and continues usage. Stash, 960 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:55,040 can't say the same. Yeah, I remember heard of it. Well, I remember the, 961 00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:02,320 because there was the Tarantino NFT, right? Like this was like, that was, was that on Stash? 962 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,920 Was that Stash? That was on Stash. Yes, it was. Yeah. So like, 963 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:14,560 like that was like huge news. And I remember thinking, oh, shit, Secret's absolutely going 964 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:20,240 to explode. It's going to be the only place for NFTs because the ability to do these kind of 965 00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:25,600 like hidden metadata, and then you can share who can, you can choose who can see it and 966 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,560 the kind of that kind of model for collective ownership of NFTs and stuff like that. And 967 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:36,480 all of these really interesting things you can do when you have privacy. And then 968 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:44,960 somehow it was a huge humble, right? And like, but you know, you land the single most iconic 969 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:54,000 film director of all time, I would argue, and you don't make money. I like it's breathtaking. 970 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:59,600 And also, and also to the point where they don't even, they, they did one, I think he was signed 971 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,840 up to two, and they just came to the second one because it didn't, it didn't, it didn't, 972 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:09,680 the bids weren't high enough, right? Like no one, no one wanted it. That was, or not high, 973 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,920 not high enough price. It's sold for one and a half million, if I remember correctly. 974 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,160 So it's pretty decent, but 975 00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:23,360 but he, but to be fair, he could have sold that at a real option in real life for a lot more. 976 00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:31,120 And the time the NFT, and the time the NFT market was crazily overheated. And I suspect 977 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:36,720 had it gone, had there been an equivalent version on Ethereum, he'd have done 10 times that amount, 978 00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:42,160 right? Like it's just that, you know, it was a Cosmos J. That wasn't great. Yeah. So 979 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:51,840 I think this is the problem is that like, I think this is my fear about the bull market. It's like, 980 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,960 are we really ready? And like, certainly one of the conversations that I had a lot 981 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,880 during my stint at AADOW, which I do like to mention from time to time, 982 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,440 was, was around bull market preparedness. It's like, 983 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,280 who is producing the content that's going to help us on board new users? Who is producing 984 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:17,920 those guides? Who is producing these things? Who is providing the infrastructure? How is, 985 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:23,600 how are we abstracting away IBC so that when you decide you want to come into Cosmos, 986 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,640 you don't have to figure out how to flip to get your tokens over these places. Like 987 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,080 IBC is wonderful, but it is probably also our biggest barrier to adoption. 988 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,120 Because people think of bridges in a completely different way to the way that IBC is. 989 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:46,720 Universal gas tokens, right? Probably one of the more controversial takes in the interchain, 990 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:51,200 because every type chain will want their token to be the gas token. That's a use case and 991 00:53:53,200 --> 00:54:00,000 awful, awful, awful user experience. So, you know, while it's working on this kind of thing, 992 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,200 some chains are doing bits, you know, as Moses has this bit that plugs into their, their 993 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:12,720 decks where you can pay with any token. We, well, I say we, but Robo Magobo got that onto the hub. 994 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:18,320 We advocated for it and basically, well, I, yes, this, this is what everyone should be doing, 995 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,280 because it makes better user experience, regardless of which decks gets the volume, 996 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,800 because I think we got a bit of a pushback from there. It should be Astroport. It's like, 997 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,640 Astroport need to build the code then. Like, I'm not waiting for perfect 998 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,800 when it's about user experience. User experience just has to be better than it is today. 999 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,800 And I hope, you know, I hope that that's what my ex colleagues will continue to push for, 1000 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:49,440 is like better user experience and being user focused rather than being token focused. 1001 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:57,120 Like, allow the app developers, chain developers to worry about the tokenomics of what they're 1002 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,600 doing and things like that harder on the hub because there isn't anyone actually in charge. But 1003 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:08,240 in the wider area of cosmos, my big thing is if you're issuing grants, what you really, 1004 00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:15,280 really need to be doing is pushing everyone to make UX better and not just better than it is today, 1005 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,240 but better than it needs to be today, because in three months time, you're not going to be able 1006 00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:27,840 to ship the updates you need to catch up. Like, no one uses something in web two and goes, oh, 1007 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:32,080 well, I'll come back to that in a few months once I've got it working. That product dies. 1008 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,480 And like, no one's willing to sacrifice that to go and use a 1009 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:45,360 bigger, slower, less usable thing today. So why should that be the same in blockchain? 1010 00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:54,160 You know, I totally agree. The noble USD thing, the USDC experience has really surprised me. 1011 00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:58,480 Not the experience, that's not a real phrasing. How much has flowed into the ecosystem? 1012 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:05,360 I didn't realize that cosmos's ecosystem was bigger than so many other ones, like Arbitrum. 1013 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,880 The fact that there's more native USDC in the cosmos ecosystem right now, 1014 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:16,960 then, and almost every other, completely force me. And that's not even including, you know, 1015 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:23,680 AxlR USDC, which is where most of the USDC still is. It's crazy to me, which means that we need 1016 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:30,000 to be, you're right, we need to be ready like three days ago. Yeah. And like, you know, the noble team 1017 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:38,480 don't get as half as much credit as what they should get. And, you know, equally the wider 1018 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:43,840 team that were involved in the onboarding of DYDX, because, and this is where it's really 1019 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:51,840 interesting, DYDX are such a user experience focused team that they forced, like, if cosmos 1020 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:58,080 wanted them, cosmos had to up its user experience in order to make it happen. And that's fascinating 1021 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,200 to me, is that like, if you want this golden, like, and that's when cosmos learned that lesson, 1022 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,720 where you've got OGs suddenly turning their attention to these problems, 1023 00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:13,600 rather than worrying about particularly fancy forms of cryptography concept too many Baileys. 1024 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:20,320 But it's just that thing where it's like, getting back down to a user level and having a product 1025 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:28,160 that people really want, and solving for that, it needs to drive stuff. I used noble USDC properly 1026 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:33,920 to off-ramp for the first time today. And it was bloody brilliant. Like, I just had a super seamless 1027 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:41,360 experience, lower fees on my centralized exchange than if I'd have had to bring Atom into there. 1028 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:48,240 So I saved myself a few pounds. So, you know, like, great for my point of view. And the few 1029 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:54,320 pence that it cost me in terms of some revenue to noble as the kind of, with the way that their 1030 00:57:54,320 --> 00:58:00,560 routing works, didn't didn't touch the sides compared to what I saved. Oh, yeah, versus bridge 1031 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:05,040 fees and those types of things you mean? Yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, even if I've done it, 1032 00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,360 even if I've even if I'd have just done it in Atom, right? Because that's how you used to have to do 1033 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:14,240 it where you just want things to Atom, and then I would just send and then selling and then I would 1034 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:21,280 sell that token on the set centralized exchange. Right. There's no, there's no selling cost to 1035 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:28,080 SDC online. So, yeah, and even in or transfer cost, even who's coming out of the out of the 1036 00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:33,120 CXE would mean might have some and those types of things. But yeah, I know we always talked about 1037 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:40,160 like, what's the new hub and like, and that idea of being able to bridge USDC without fees across 1038 00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:45,680 any of these type structures is a huge fucking advantage. Huge, right? Like, it's a total wall 1039 00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,840 garden situation where like people wouldn't like that. Like, you don't necessarily like it because 1040 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,680 it you know, it's very quote unquote centralized from a single chain and all that kind or a single 1041 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,520 a single asset and there's risk associated that asset and it puts in like false securities 1042 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,040 associated that I totally agree. But from a user experience perspective, it's fucking great. 1043 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:06,720 Right. So and I thought that, you know, there's their current business model where they charge 1044 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:14,400 a few, few points on the IBC transfers and all all your so even if you're moving your noble from 1045 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:21,200 osmosis to neutron, it actually roots by noble and it charges you that way. You can't root 1046 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:27,200 you can't root directly. Except obviously you can because IBC is permissionless. But and it was 1047 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,080 interesting. So I asked them this and I was like, well, why, why would anyone pay you? And they were 1048 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:38,080 like, well, why wouldn't you? Ultimately, why would you go like some decks eventually will 1049 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:44,720 set up a thing and it will just cut us out fine. But like, who like in terms of the network effects, 1050 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,600 you're going to have a different version of the token, all of those problems that we have with 1051 00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:54,000 IBC in general. And I think that actually when we talk about the hub, 1052 00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:01,760 that's really what the hub should have been is to go all of these user, all of these use case 1053 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,560 problems that we have with tokens are solved by routing, where you just route via another thing. 1054 01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,880 So packet forward, middleware and all of these things have been fantastic because it means that 1055 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:20,240 this mess that IBC will become in its current model, if you have 10,000 IBC chains and everything 1056 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:27,280 has to talk to everything, that's just absolute chaos, right? Yeah. If you actually start to put 1057 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:34,800 more sensible structures in place, and you go, yeah, that's going to cost fractions of a token 1058 01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:39,920 to move it, you know, as an additional bit, there should be something in there for relays as well. 1059 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:45,680 Like that becomes a more obvious relay thing. And one of my frustrations is everyone goes, 1060 01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:52,240 oh, well, that's not how it works. As if it working badly today means we shouldn't try to change it, 1061 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:57,360 or just go, you know what, yeah, we're going to leave all we're going to leave and support all 1062 01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,040 of these old channels. They'll continue to work as they are. But if we genuinely believe there's 1063 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:06,160 going to be 10,000 chains, what's it matter what the first 50 or 100 did, right, then maybe 1064 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,800 it's going to be in the same sense of scale. Like it really what precedent is nonsense here, 1065 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,520 and we need to come up with structures that are more efficient and workable. 1066 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:19,200 I think it's back a little bit here. I don't think the cosmos could handle 1067 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:24,800 even the current amount of traffic that's an IBC, right? And that becomes such a liability 1068 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:29,040 where if someone attacks cosmos, you take down the entire, what would effectively become the 1069 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,120 economic zone, that puts a lot of fear in me. I think that the way we're currently doing it 1070 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:38,960 isn't awesome because of how convoluted it is. But if we only had one single hub that manages 1071 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:46,400 so much traffic, but I think that you could have, you could have alternatives, right? Like, 1072 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,800 I'm not saying you just have one, I think that you could totally have different like different 1073 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:55,680 hubs. That was the whole vision of the original model, right? But this is the thing is IBC was 1074 01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:59,920 designed to work with the original model. And then we haven't delivered the original model, 1075 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:06,000 but expect IBC to work. And that's my problem is like the hub should have done hub relaying, 1076 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,520 and I think it should still do that. But I also think that if really, if you're osmosis, 1077 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:16,000 you'd probably have this argument for why, why wouldn't you do it? You're a dex, 1078 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,680 everyone's going to be moving their tokens in and out of you anyway, just make it part for 1079 01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:24,640 the feature you offer, right? And then you can compete on price and relays can do different 1080 01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:29,600 things. And you can actually create markets around this. And then you will decide what works and 1081 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:35,360 how we balance security risk, economics. So I'm not dismissing what you're saying, Chelsea, but I 1082 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:41,760 feel like what we're what we're doing at the moment is we're at like, we've done 1083 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:47,760 half of the step. And then we can't work out why it doesn't work. Because what we've done is as 1084 01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:53,440 typically, we've done the hard technical bit. And then we've just given up, or we've moved on to the 1085 01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,880 next interesting technical problem. And I think this is really what the straights me at times in 1086 01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:03,120 cosmos is like, if it isn't a big, hard technical problem, there isn't a lot of interest in doing 1087 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:09,120 it. And I think that that's where the reputation of cosmos is being like, super clever, great tech, 1088 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:14,880 no one actually uses it comes from. Because actually a lot of the people solving for these 1089 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:19,280 problems, that is what they're not interested in making the chains usable or having volume. 1090 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:25,040 Yeah, I mean, I'll agree with that for sure. I've had several hour plus long meetings with 1091 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,360 people trying to figure out like the best way you can unwind IBC transactions just to kind of work 1092 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:36,800 around the horrible use case of the way IBC tokens function, right? If if we had just done the hub 1093 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:42,320 system, then we would just know how things work. Well, that that token that signed here and came 1094 01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,240 through here done, rather than okay, well, it bounced around and how are we going to handle that? 1095 01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,200 It would definitely handle a lot of overhead. 1096 01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:57,920 What's Josh from Cap, had this it's on Twitter, people should look up or I might even try and 1097 01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,600 find it and I'll give it to you, sir, point in the show notes. He's got this really great 1098 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:09,360 explanation of why IBC works the way it does in terms of by having the path that it's been on, 1099 01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:15,840 you can know the trust assumptions behind that token. So if there's an exploit on a given chain 1100 01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:21,280 within the IBC network, you could know if a token comes from somewhere where something dodgy's 1101 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:27,120 happened. So for example, let's say on a network, they suddenly come up with the ability to clone 1102 01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:35,760 the tokens. Rather than the system being a wash with forged coins, as it were, you can actually 1103 01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,560 go well, actually, we're just going to say all of these coins can't be trusted anymore. And you 1104 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,480 just pass a governance proposal that says it and you can check it in the code and it's there. 1105 01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:53,120 And there's a kind of like that ability to have that audit trail is really useful because it 1106 01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:59,440 gives you some additional security, but you lose usability because of it. And how that plays out over 1107 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:04,720 time will be really interesting because what we haven't really seen is the need for that yet. 1108 01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:10,480 We haven't had that kind of exploiting cosmos thus far, I'm sure it will happen, where we get 1109 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:19,280 bogus tokens, but that's the kind of thing that the original thinking was designed to protect us 1110 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:25,760 from. And I think it's easy for Johnny Cumm-Late, like me, to shit on people that did a lot of 1111 01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:30,080 hard work and a lot of hard thinking early on and say, oh, you came up with something that doesn't 1112 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:34,880 work. So I'll find the explanation from Josh because it's really, really good and people should 1113 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:39,280 read it because if you're worried about the way IBC works, it will just challenge some of the 1114 01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:45,120 assumptions you make about why is it so shit. Was there anything else Rama wants us to talk about? 1115 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,360 I say Rama because he's really in charge of the show now, right? That's the way this is actually 1116 01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:57,520 worked. Well, he is the director. Is he? Would he be the producer? No, I don't know. 1117 01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:02,880 No, don't say that. I think technically he's only the researcher, but I feel like he exerts the 1118 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:08,880 authority for producer. Now we talked about all the ash report and the kind of aping and every 1119 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:14,560 as he said, aping into every goddamn token that exists on Astro point. It's probably right. 1120 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,600 And we talked about Lavan a little bit. We talked about the node structure associated 1121 01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:23,200 with those. Yeah, I don't know. Those are all the kind of current highlights, I think. 1122 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:29,360 Should we move on to Christmas party kind of stuff? Yeah, I guess. 1123 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:36,800 That sounds amazing. If I can get, go ahead. No, I wasn't sure whether there was, you know, 1124 01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:42,800 sure he had any sort of Christmas party games lined up or, you know, his review of the year, 1125 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:51,440 his quiz. Oh, review of the year. And I have to come up. It's on the spot. Oh, no. 1126 01:06:52,640 --> 01:07:00,400 Can't do it. Not happening. What? 20? What? Give me 20 words on 2023 for L five. 1127 01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:08,960 20 words on 2023 for L five. You know, I don't know if this really counts, but I think that 1128 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,640 one thing I'm really proud of for this year is, you know, there at one point there was six of us 1129 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:19,920 in lab number five, right? And now there are three. And one thing that was a crowning achievement 1130 01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:26,800 of this year is having like clear verticals, having clear responsibilities. And early on, 1131 01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:31,760 my philosophy as a leader was kind of like, Hey, we're all part of this. This is a startup. You 1132 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,520 know, if you want to work on a certain thing, then just work on that. I'm not going to tell you 1133 01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:43,520 what to do. And I think that's a good idea in theory. But the more that we as a team have grown, 1134 01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:49,360 the more I've learned that there's, there's a lot to be said about just like, once someone 1135 01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:54,080 has decided like what they want to work on, like you kind of declare that like, okay, 1136 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:59,280 you've been working on this, you like working on this, this is your responsibility. Like you own 1137 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:04,320 it. If there's decisions, it's your decision to make and I can help you decide on it or whatever. 1138 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,800 But this is your decision. And there's a lot of power to be had there. And I'm really proud 1139 01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:14,720 that this year we've kind of reached the point where we now have our different ownership positions. 1140 01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:21,200 I of course still kind of working all of them because lab under five kind of I am the representation 1141 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:25,920 of it, but ultimately everyone has a responsibility and it makes this work so much smoother. If there's 1142 01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:30,480 a question around nodes, then more often than not, people are going to go to go to James because 1143 01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:34,000 James is the one managing them a lot of the time. I rate like the automation behind them, 1144 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,640 the monitoring, things like that. But James is the day to day. He knows them better. Like I'm 1145 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:43,600 working on software, Erdemans doing the business stuff, and things just work so smooth. It's so 1146 01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:49,440 nice to just have that. I think next year should learn how to count to 20. Well, 1147 01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:56,240 so I was just kind of rounding a little bit. You know what I mean? If you squint a little bit, it was 20. 1148 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,960 That's good, man. It's tough to be able, especially in a small team and things like that. 1149 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:07,520 I think it's a tough business to kind of work out in terms of delegation and roles and responsibilities 1150 01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:13,840 because it's not only just, because you have a lot of repeatable pieces here in terms of knowledge, 1151 01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:18,800 but there's a lot of intricacies within those chains, right? And obviously you guys are getting 1152 01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:23,200 involved in new things. And it's not just a cookie cutter thing over and over, which is tough. Plus 1153 01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:27,360 you have the time zone issues, right? And all of the type of thing that fits into that. And just 1154 01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:31,520 because somebody has expertise in something doesn't mean that they can be available to solve that 1155 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:35,440 problem, right? So you have a lot of overlapping of skill sets. It's a tough business to scale, to 1156 01:09:35,440 --> 01:09:42,720 be honest. And I always, always, always been like in the past, like where, where it's a, it's always, 1157 01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:46,160 the comment was like every time that you double in terms of employees, that's really 1158 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:51,360 becomes like one to two is really hard, right? And two to four is hard. And then they get together 1159 01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:56,640 and you get the four to eight and things like that. And, and kind of getting into those groups 1160 01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:01,920 because everybody's kind of roles change and you have a bunch of responsibilities change. And then 1161 01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,680 obviously you guys are getting involved in more different, different things. So yeah, that's good. 1162 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:10,400 I'm glad you guys are getting into a group with that. It was tough. That, that doubling, it, it's 1163 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:15,840 true. It going from one to two doesn't sound like a big deal. Like one plus one is really simple. 1164 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:23,280 But it is because before you just communicated with yourself, right? If there was something 1165 01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:28,160 that needed done, you knew that, well, like I hadn't done it. Therefore it needs doing, right? 1166 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:32,400 However, going from two people, now there's potential like outlier of, Hey, you know, 1167 01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:37,280 I woke up at six a.m. and they're probably not even up yet. But sometimes they got up early. So, 1168 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:41,760 hey, I'm, I just have to message them and say, Hey, like, did you already do this? Right? 1169 01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:46,960 We use notion for that in order to track, you know, what's been done. But even that, that's 1170 01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,720 now an extra piece of software that you have to have in mind to be like, Hey, okay, now I need to 1171 01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,880 check the tickets. Has this data chain been upgraded happened yet? Oh, I guess it has. I just 1172 01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:59,360 checked the, the status of it. But that's still, that adds, you know, let's say a minute overhead 1173 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:07,920 and that adds up without being flippant. Was it harder to double in size or to have in size? 1174 01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:16,880 It's a great question. I guess there's kind of two aspects of it, right? From an emotional 1175 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:24,800 perspective, it was far more difficult to have in size. Really, really tough. And now I operate 1176 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:32,800 way more conservatively. Yeah. But in terms of delegation responsibilities, I'm far more discerning 1177 01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:39,600 about what a hiring is for and what need it serves. And so it's, it's kind of more stressful to double 1178 01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:44,800 in size in that way. But emotionally, far more stressful to have far, far more stressful. 1179 01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,480 Yeah, you're affecting people's lives. It's always, that's always tough, right? But, but 1180 01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:52,960 taking on the responsibilities is usually easier. It's just that's different type of stress, right? 1181 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,360 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. Yeah. 1182 01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,880 I think, I think what interest, I think that's what interests me from, 1183 01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:07,120 I mean, my experience of this year is very different. But this year, for like you guys, 1184 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:12,480 from a viewer perspective, there were points in this year where like, as a viewer, I just want 1185 01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:16,880 to put my arm around you guys, because you could see all sorts of things going on for different 1186 01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,880 ones of you over the course of the bear that's just like, there were just some leaks where I was 1187 01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:25,760 like, Oh, I really don't even know that I want to chew in because the guys will be suffering. 1188 01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:32,400 And, you know, like, I just did tune in because I enjoy giving you a shit in the chat. But like, 1189 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:36,880 it's that thing where, you know, yeah, but, but it's, it's that thing where you kind of go, 1190 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:42,720 what, the reason that I always advocate that people should watch the show is because it really 1191 01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:48,080 takes away the kind of moonboy culture because I think, you know, what Shortsey's describing there 1192 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:55,120 with that kind of having to try and figure out how to be responsible in terms of, you know, 1193 01:12:55,120 --> 01:13:00,880 scaling up and scaling down and how, you know, the bull runs coming, probably going to scale up 1194 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:05,600 again, might need to scale down again in the bear, how you approach that this time around, 1195 01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:10,720 you've got a bunch of experience in the bank, right? But I think that that's where this kind 1196 01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:15,280 of program's been really interesting because it's like, it's quite good to just talk about how you 1197 01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:21,200 assess risk and how you manage that emotionally because I think for a lot of the assumption is, 1198 01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:26,160 oh, well, you know, you just huddle and you're diamond handed and if you sell your week or 1199 01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:31,680 whatever, like there's loads of just all of this sort of Twitter nonsense versus the emotional 1200 01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:37,120 reality of what this show has shown over this year. And I think that's probably my game of notes 1201 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:43,600 thing is that this year has been a pretty raw one in some ways, you know, more ruled on like 1202 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:48,880 Prop 16 and the chainholt and all of that kind of stuff, which felt like it happened live on the 1203 01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,880 show, but it felt like it was good times. Whereas this year's just been like some really, 1204 01:13:55,280 --> 01:14:01,680 really bleak weeks. I think that's a totally valid take. I think that's fair. Yeah, no, I totally 1205 01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:08,720 agree. I think that that our 20 words this year, I think similar to that, I guess, 1206 01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:16,240 it allowed us to spend some more time on focusing on what's important versus trying to go after 1207 01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:20,480 everything, which I think was really beneficial for us this year. And I think Betty, your point is 1208 01:14:20,480 --> 01:14:33,040 right. Like, it focuses you on identifying where you're going to spend time and maybe what is the 1209 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:37,920 outcome of that. And then things that are, you know, in the past, you kind of go after anything 1210 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:44,000 you could hopefully get. And now you be a little bit more cautious about those types of things. 1211 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:49,840 I thought we were incredibly lucky this year with some things. And that's what this business is, 1212 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:54,640 honestly. There's a lot of experience in there and there's a lot of that. And there's just a 1213 01:14:54,640 --> 01:15:00,240 shit load of fucking luck in some things. And we were lucky last year at the end of last year in 1214 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:04,960 2022. And then some of that stuff carried over into this year. And we missed out a bunch of shit too. 1215 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,960 So like, you know, like anything else, like there's things that we ignored because we didn't 1216 01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:12,800 think we were going to go anywhere. We just didn't have time or, you know, those types of things. And 1217 01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:16,880 then they turn into something great that you're not part of and, you know, whatever you move on. 1218 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:24,000 Right. But, but yeah, I don't know. It's been, it's been a pretty raw year. I think I especially 1219 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,760 gave me notes like to your point, like, just talking about some of the challenges and you 1220 01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,280 got to have a sense of humor around it too, because otherwise, like, what the hell can't 1221 01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:35,040 sit there and like, you know, like you got to, you got to have a sense of humor, especially with 1222 01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:39,360 people shit talking in the comments. That's like the best part. So it was, it was, it was a weird 1223 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:44,880 year. It was a very strange year. I think the year started a lot really strong. And something about 1224 01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:50,480 it just, it felt like everyone started just getting worn down. And it, I can't even put my finger on 1225 01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:55,440 why that is because if I remember correctly, a lot of the market was down further at the beginning 1226 01:15:55,440 --> 01:16:01,120 of the year than it is now. Right. And so I don't know why, like what happened that caused such a 1227 01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:07,440 a bleak perspective for so many people. I think just the time to write, like, it just, like, it 1228 01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:13,120 just builds because I mean, it's really started what March of last year. Yeah. So terror was last 1229 01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:20,240 year, right? That was, that was around April and April 22 or something. Yeah. But FTX was this year. 1230 01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:25,760 So I think that that's kind of the thing is that you've had by the time you're at 1231 01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:34,080 the end of Q1, Q2 this year, you've already had the year of almost perpetual Black Swan events. 1232 01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:41,360 Right. And then if you're me and you've cared about the Cosmos Hub, then you've had things like, 1233 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:51,680 I think prop 69 rejection, prop 82 rejection. You know, these big sort of like, from my point of 1234 01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:57,440 view, just taking the wrong direction and not doing things and, you know, a lot of division in 1235 01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:03,680 the community. And it's all super draining every time you go through one of those. And, you know, 1236 01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:11,520 yeah. And then, like, it feels like the we're on an upward curve at the moment, I would say, 1237 01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:16,160 sort of since November. Don't think that's got anything to do with anything particularly 1238 01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:20,480 happening. It's almost like the absence of anything shit happening has just given people a bit of 1239 01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:28,960 a relief. And obviously, there's the the coming Bitcoin ETF and all of that stuff that's giving 1240 01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:34,080 people a bit of hope in the future. So there's a bit more ethory, and it makes things a bit easier 1241 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:39,200 to deal with because everyone's a little bit nicer. But I definitely find that uncomfortable. I 1242 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:44,320 realized a couple of weeks ago that I definitely preferred the bear market from like, I had got 1243 01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:52,720 psychologically comfortable in that space. I felt far less comfortable with people making money. And 1244 01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:59,520 everyone's been nice. And, you know, just like, what is this? I don't know where I stand anymore. 1245 01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:09,520 I think it's really good. Yeah, and the bull market really brings a different level of stress, 1246 01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:14,480 which I don't think a lot of people talk about. I mean, if we come full circle back to the game of 1247 01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:20,320 Newt's, I put in, you know, a couple hundred dollars at the start, right? And I had more liquid 1248 01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:24,800 that I could have put more into, right? And so I could have gotten more gains if I put more in. 1249 01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:30,560 I typically don't think too much along that effect because, okay, whatever. But when the bull 1250 01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:36,160 market starts hitting, that becomes really tough, really toxic, like, hey, I know my friend talked 1251 01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:40,400 about this two weeks ago, and I should have done it. And I didn't. I didn't for no reason, but I had 1252 01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:46,320 no good reason why didn't. But I'd be rich now if I had, you know, bought Shiba Inu Doge, Obama 1253 01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:56,560 clips or whatever. Right. That's my, my, my new story is that I, so I basically flew over the 1254 01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:03,280 weekend and was in bed. And it was nighttime, my time. And I saw something in Telegram with someone 1255 01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:11,760 saying, Hey, new this new token market cap 30k. And I was like, that's going to pop off. I can't 1256 01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:16,960 be to use Astroport. I can't be in the UK. So I would have had to have left my bed. 1257 01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:24,960 Plus you can't use it on your mobile. So I couldn't be bothered to get my laptop 1258 01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:33,040 because I didn't want to get out of bed. And I could have made 100x, you know, and that's 1259 01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:37,520 like, there is a stress with that, right? Like I had a friend that was willing to give me a heads 1260 01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:45,280 up. I didn't take an opportunity. They made some money. I didn't like, all of that stuff is stressful. 1261 01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:51,200 It's more, it's more stressful than the slow grind down than I'd had, because I'd kind of 1262 01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,640 price that in, right? I was like, Oh, well, it would just come back up when the bet bull happens. 1263 01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:59,120 So I'm just going to hold and I kind of, you know, and I've made sensible decisions. And now 1264 01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:05,280 what you have to do is like make completely crazy decisions and then figure out when you're meant 1265 01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:10,160 to sell and when you're not and all of this stuff. And like, yes, I think what I'll do 1266 01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:14,880 over Christmas is I'm just going to write down some numbers on pieces of paper. And I'm going to 1267 01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:20,160 stick to those, whether they're right or wrong, just so that I don't have to think when the time 1268 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:26,640 comes, because I can't trust my emotions. But it's like, so the LaVanna airdrop, I sold some of it. 1269 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:31,200 I helped eat some of it. I've held some of it in a kind of ratio that I think is 1270 01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:37,120 conservative, because that's what I'll do just to preserve my sanity, because I'm definitely not 1271 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:42,720 going to sit there and go, Oh, I find me either sold or hardwood or whatever. Like you just, 1272 01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:51,200 you can be an accident, teret yourself in this market. And yet another great example is Celestia. 1273 01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:57,920 Most of the LaVanna 5 teams sold the vast majority of our tokens at $2. We were like, 1274 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:03,120 hey, we made profit. This is awesome. Like feeling good. And it crested $15 for a minute there. 1275 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:10,720 Right? It's really easy to see that and be like, yeah, we're relayers. We could have, you know, 1276 01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:13,840 got to really increase that emergency phone with that. 1277 01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:22,560 That, that thinking is why I own one billion Chihuahua. Exactly why. 1278 01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:30,000 Chihuahua was flying at the moment. You should be, you must be making bank now. 1279 01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:36,320 It turns out that the key thing is to, to FOMO in three years and that's fine. 1280 01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,800 Ignore it. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's it. That's the plan. That's my long-term plan. 1281 01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:45,600 Hold on for 10 years. Forget about the wallet. Think about it later. Just don't just use the 1282 01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,840 keys. You'll become one of those people, right? Where it's like, oh, there's this wallet and 1283 01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:54,480 it's dead and it's in, you know, dormant. And then one day it'll be like bang back to life and a 1284 01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:59,600 whale alert will go off. I do have Bitcoin somewhere. I know there's wall keys on some sort of spinning 1285 01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,360 hard drive that's in the cabinet behind me. I know there is. I know there is. I know there is. 1286 01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:09,040 Because I remember minting it. I remember running it. It's probably dust, but I know it's on there. 1287 01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:12,720 It's on there somewhere, which I'm never going to go look. It's gone forever. 1288 01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:18,960 I've talked about this before, but I have, I had like 20 Bitcoin that I used to trade with 1289 01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,720 Diablo 2. I got scammed out of something, some small amount, like a quarter of a Bitcoin or 1290 01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:29,040 something at that point. I just toasted the wallet. So somewhere in, in reality, 1291 01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:34,320 it's 20 Bitcoin just sitting there because as a college student, I was like, screw this stupid 1292 01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:38,640 token money. Is it real? PayPal is not going to help me out. I'm out of here. 1293 01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,000 I'm out. I'm done. That's what they said. Like the amount of Bitcoin they thought 1294 01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:47,280 is lost is like a huge percentage, right? Of, of outstanding. It's a massive number. Yeah. 1295 01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:52,400 Yeah. One day that will be nuked too, because there's a finite amount of it. No more is coming. 1296 01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:58,480 Uh-huh. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Don't pump. Listen, don't chill on here. 1297 01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:03,520 Keep your fucking new talk out here. How's my net at doing, by the way? 1298 01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:09,680 I think it hit like $40 recently. Did it really? Get out of here. I think so. 1299 01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:15,600 Where's that? Are those sites still exist? Golden ratio again. 1300 01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,680 I'm sure. Made. They, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, 1301 01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:26,080 I'm sure like two months ago and we're just like, if you know, go out, goes up, surely 1302 01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:30,880 net will pump at some point. So they probably own enough to like take all the, all the liquidity 1303 01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:37,200 at some point. I do not. I mean, that guy, he's on top of it. He really is. He calls each and 1304 01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:42,720 everyone, which makes you wonder, like at some point of his influence, does, does coins start 1305 01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:48,160 becoming a thing because he's influencing them or is he, who's influencing them? 1306 01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:57,200 As soon as, as soon as intense are a thing, right? Like I just want to tell, tell contract 1307 01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:03,120 just to copy trade him just to be like, you know, at like a thousand of his size, because 1308 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:08,560 I don't have his money, but just to be like, because like he hits everything. It's amazing. 1309 01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:12,560 Yeah. There was, there was this. Yeah. That's what you need. You need it. That's an intense site. 1310 01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:15,680 That's a good, that's actually a good idea. Those exist in the market where the East is 1311 01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:20,000 exist in the market as well, where you could like, somebody would actually have a portfolio, 1312 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:23,120 right? And you would just mirror that portfolio and then you, you provide, 1313 01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:27,120 you would have a set this up and they would just mirror trades at the same exact time. 1314 01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,800 That's what we should do. He could take 2% out of whatever crap coins I have in there. 1315 01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:31,760 That's perfect. Let's do that. 1316 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:37,440 This is another game of nodes product that isn't going to ship in 2024. 1317 01:24:38,480 --> 01:24:40,880 For sure. But we bring the ideas. I mean, that's a good idea. 1318 01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:47,120 Those shirts are coming any day now, by the way, almost there. We did actually, no, never mind. 1319 01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:54,240 It doesn't matter. Why, why you bring it up? Doesn't make a difference. That's right. 1320 01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:58,480 Why, why not even say, well, I literally was going to be like, Oh yeah. On the, 1321 01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:02,320 by the way, on the shirts, we have huge news. We do not, we do not have huge news. 1322 01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,440 No, we don't. There's no huge news. 1323 01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:09,920 So really that's the summary of the year. Another year, no game with notes shirt. 1324 01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:25,840 Merry Christmas, everyone.