was the project like what what what would we actually do to fund this fucker like what is acceptable
and you're like because this has all got a bit real i was kind of hoping we get a bit more time
sitting around on beanbags talking about crypto cryptographic primitives but it's all become a
job real quick you know welcome to game of nodes a weekly podcast from independent validated teams
hello welcome to game of nodes a weekly podcast from independent validated teams and i don't
actually know when that started so i can only assume that it was it was it was after anything
hard we were saying horrible things in the pre show so i can only assume it was after then
and and don't worry like if you did hear any of what happened before that no kittens were actually
harmed in the making of usurpers thanksgiving meal don't worry about that it's not happened that was
a joke there's an inside joke between friends no kittens you obviously have no idea when that started
it isn't done about when you join i'm guessing yeah it's like immediately after i joined immediately
let's go so um for those of you tuning in um yet we're back to full force disappointingly i i was
listening back to last week's poddo and i have to conclude that the ad hoc panel assembled
avengers assemble style um from from the wreckage of miscommunication uh was was a stronger panel
than than the usual one so so well done null um that was a test um i'm glad to see you passed um
that was fair i contributed very little to the conversation it was the final part of your
of your fault tolerant and resilience module for your um node operations uh uh uh uh course so
your your certificate is in the post you you're now an official operations guy you may now grow
your neck beard at least three times that length um you must grow your neck beard at least two times
that length so i was you say a length do you mean the hair itself or do you mean just further down
is that is that what you mean so so so i'm uh yeah we were talking about sort of i guess with gravity
right ah yes but if you do love about the neck beard is presumably the beard also just extends
like passed down your adam's apple and just all the way down itself not the hair length but just
where it grows it starts talking about the migrates it's this bit here isn't it so like i think specifically
when you're working in operations this bit here could be clean shaven but this bit this bit requires
this bit i mean that makes sense ultimately it would join up with my chest here i was i was
literally about to say that i'm like it really should not be joining dear joseph i feel like they
used to be i feel like they used to be a mode emoji for a neck beard and i'm not sure there is anymore
maybe maybe i just hallucinated that in a fever dream um i i am prone to getting hallucinations
when i get really ill so maybe maybe there never was a unicode emoji for neck beard but i feel like
there was it was like a i was about to say it was like a guy with a big neck beard who looked like
he worked in them oh it exists it exists for sure i'll link it yeah no you're gonna get you're gonna
get a little treasure trail up there like great from here so big shout out to you guys for for
coming on board last week because i didn't invite them they invited themselves so you know it wasn't
necessarily me assembling them it was them assembling themselves and then you know getting me back out
of ops to do the thing to hit the button already made it clear that we had cancelled it that it
was not gonna fly so uh you know lots of twitter confusion later there we were and even urtima
made an appearance for something like 10 minutes which is pretty cool that's new yeah one thing
which was to mock the fact that we never let our guests speak and then and then left after that
and then yeah i didn't need to talk and then he left so hey no worries but yeah that obviously
inspired the the title of the title of today's show and you know honestly in terms of content i'm
not sure we can offer you the same quality as last week we can offer you a drill tweet which will
be coming up shortly um and my one disappointment actually uh if i was going to give you notes on
uh last week now since i know that you must have been the rugger um was that right at the end there
i felt like rama was really getting on to a good thread of how rama's get rich strategy works and
maybe if we all followed it we were going to get rich and i was getting quite excited about his
financial advice that he was giving lots of um because it was definitely financial advice um
and i noticed he didn't qualify it is not financial advice so it definitely counts you know legally
it's financial advice and i was looking forward to following that financial advice when presumably you
uh cut him off and and i never found out what the um what the four week rama get rich strategy
ultimately entailed when distilled how unfortunate i mean i couldn't i couldn't let him share his
secrets then they might not be then relevant to him anymore after you know the market is saturated
with little ramas running around doing the same strategy you're priced in right and it's no longer
no longer alpha i love it there's um i i feel like shortsy also listens occasionally to like
financial youtube or whatever there's like a um there's like i think it's a newsletter called
like seeking alpha or something like that it's like a digest newsletter and um surely if like
15 000 other people are more receiving the same alpha every day it ceased to be alpha no
no sorry are we talking to me just back to our regular regular schedule program
i should the shit i just call sorry i was uh just thinking about alpha so to give you some
background on why i'm distracted i was uh sending some messages to code hands i have a really uh
uh bit of an issue now with a validator that i run so talked about it a couple of weeks ago i got
slashed on um kujira right it's like my only mainnet slashing and the way the kujira staking
interface works is they put this big mark next to your validator name that's like this validator
has been slashed before so people have been like you know running from the ship like rats on a sinking
ship and i just don't think that it's really any point us running a validator there anymore because
of that mark we're never going to accumulate any stake again so um there's a there's a mark like
like that like in in the blue dot kujira staking interface they give you the black on a piece of
paper you got the scarlet letter yeah it's like just this big square next to your name and i'm like
you know saying the code hands like that was a mistake and a pretty fair one like i miscalculated
the amount of signatures we could miss right yeah and and to carry that like forever now is just
it's not reflective of our operations so i was asking code hands if they would consider
um you know holding that mark for a certain amount of time and then letting it fade off
rather than just keeping it forever because if it's going to be there forever there's no point
validating that network anymore unless we start a new validator so um yeah uh there's a so there's
a link there in the in the chat blue dot kujira dot network forward slash stake so we've already
lost probably a third of our um stake since um since we got slashed and we are like right down the
bottom the funny thing is on kujira the slash is next to nothing like most people would have lost
sense and you know well that's a total injury that they're added to the bottom of the list right
so now you're now slash now you're like truly the black sheep and they're like under a line yeah
it's like yeah exactly and then there's no accounting for like if you paid everyone back
it's just a number were you slashed yes now grand doesn't say did you pay people back yes like you
don't get any you know it's just you're you're marked and i just don't see any point being there
anymore once you're marked and it's like it's a bad look for our brand to have that next to our name
so i don't oh i see slashes right down the bottom yeah yeah yeah look at that i'm amongst people with
like nine and ten slashes you are otter sink and pressure and magic team and kingnotes crypto crew
look at them they're there they must have just done that they have it no they've been slashed for a
long time they they must have like some big delegators that are just like um committed to them because
they look like they've been slashed for a fair while but they still have a fair amount of stake
from memory well you just need to DDoS everybody else to make sure that they all slash or
fuck them all up and then everybody's on the list yeah yeah i don't i'm sure she'll take one for
the team for you to be down that bottomless with you having just gone slash absolutely not
not doing it so kujira's always been labor intensive and and um running at a loss so
you know to be labor intensive running at a loss and under the line yeah maybe it's time
yeah too much of a headwind so yeah no parod is down here too with two damn damn yeah damn so i don't
know what you guys think but that's that's kind of my opinion and um yeah i guess i'll see what
coden says if there's no no way to make that you know more i agree it probably it probably should
at least roll off like make it for six months or something but i i kind of agree with that
or maybe a year i don't know i do i wish i wish i wish more teams would would utilize an interface
like maybe not this exactly the slash thing which isn't bad actually i mean you got slash for kind
of a shit reason because has nothing to do with actual producing blocks it's just the pegio thing
but but um i do like this interface guy like i wish the min scan team would take a look and
try to understand what it looks like to be able to try to create a distributed devalidator set
min scan well i mean they only want an interface that makes themselves look good which they do
they put themselves in that in that little box here's your top three somehow they're always in there
yeah um i think it's also interesting they don't talk about what kind of slashing i would guarantee
that all of the slashing events that happen there have been due to the price veiter which yeah okay
that is a type of slashing but it's not the same as downtime slashing and kizhira's handling of
oracle votes kind of sucks anyway right so it's like it's situations where go ahead if sorry if
you look at uptime like we have probably the best uptime on there it's uh we don't we hardly miss a
block there everyone else is sort of a couple hundred blocks in the window all the time um
well it's also back to mechanism design isn't it we've talked about this before like if you're
uh there's no slashing on on various other networks like aptos where some of us are there's no
slashing there's no downs the point is you're not making money when you're down so you have a pretty
strong incentive to not be fucking down right besides the fact that obviously people will get on you
pretty quick if you're down as i'm sure anybody who's been down has discovered via the medium of
twitter but there's like there are a variety of other solutions to this problem that don't involve
slashing and also like i think that the slashing thing from a regulatory point of view is going
to become more pertinent because the second people start looking at this as assets under management
and then they go fuck wait people can lose money because you configure shit wrong oh dude right
you're fucking kidding me like slashing is the fucking stupidest thing we could possibly do as
a mechanism and it's really fucking stupid from the point of view of validated risk because
what you want to do is say look we don't manage shit it is decentralized it is distributed proof
of stake number one number two this is a high risk to generate activity right which is akin to gambling
like raman said on the pottoe last week people are here just to fucking forget about their day job a
bit yo those some coins see line go up right that's where you want to be from the point of view of
regulation is you say look at the end of the day we're professionals running organizations
which have experience in in building out distributed systems we run this infrastructure
things go wrong but it's within the context of you know people need to understand their risk
in this space right that's an even tougher sell when you're going not only they manage their own
risk from like price volatility and whatnot they're also managing their risk because we're
going to fucking get them slashed like it that's the one that really like slashing is is the only
reason we're totally okay and it's totally fine because no regulator has a fucking clue what the
cosmos ecosystem is right um that is funny though yeah i mean i mean the you know you guys
center which the center which nobody has a fucking clue what the cosmos ecosystem we have no custody
we're not we don't hold tokens we don't do anything with that so you can't affect anybody well
a little bit there's one thing there's one thing if i if i close my eyes a bunch of people lose money
but other than that i have no custody whatsoever like another whatsoever so i had a bunch of
neat things last week last week this week fuck i don't even know i'm i'm tired man but uh and as
you can probably hear from you coughing i've been very very all recently but the i was having some
conversation with some people i won't dox who or what but whatever like it's always it's always
always an account to me isn't it anyway but dox um there was a conversation about staking and like
the extent to which the regulators do and don't understand it which is like in the uk the tax
authority actually has you know a pretty comprehensive document on this right the extent
to which the regulators understand it is much more fluid especially all the different types of
staking considerations in different ecosystems right and so i had a number of meetings on a
single day and there were it was really funny that in in between all these bits and there was a
whole conversation about risks of staking and possible regulation coming down the pipeline
and blah blah blah and and you know everybody else that was more informed than i was but the
extent to which cosmos isn't even known about is i think it was block demon came up in the
conversation and somebody was just like well you know like the risk that some an operator like a
large player like block demon is taking on and i was kind of like oh yeah but they got slashed twice
in cosmos and everybody was like huh yeah yeah they lost consumer funds because of this slashing
event and there was like a sorry what's um you have to remind which which one's cosmos again i was
like oh it's a whole ecosystem of blockchain it's like oh right okay sorry well that's him
and i was like oh but also but also yeah no um but but yeah i guess kind of i mean that's the
anyone you've heard of so um so on slashings and losing money there have been a spate of slashings
in injective recently well like you know pretty regularly so but the like in the last week i
would say maybe like i still so decent dot com on that one yeah very decent dot com that's um
that's so like probably it's probably like truth and rate slashings and it's all pago it's all
pago related pago here's my take on that all right hey i go to my team has to come out and say hey
you guys are getting slashed a lot that kind of shows a problem with that's a that's a team issue
right that there's a great occasion there like that seems like a you problem yeah if you're if you
your configs are like your explanation is so bad that people are getting slashed seven times in one
day i mean that's a my my argument is right like the odf the um open defi foundation has a lot of
like you know staked coins in in injective why not make a bounty to fix it like you know if you
don't want to do it yourself just like you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars from
from slashings just like make make a ten thousand dollar bounty or fifty thousand
dollar and you know have someone improve it like i don't get it it's so easy to get someone to do
that with a bounty and the problem with it is it's it's i'm sure it's not a difficult problem to fix
it doesn't persistently um retry the the rpc after it gets a disconnect it'll like try a couple of
times and then hang like why not just keep persist you know to try it like what operators have to do
is just keep restarting the thing all the time so that you know if it does get a disconnect it'll
come back like they still monitor successes and failures right no different than any other price
meter so they could they should be able to be alerted other than yeah i mean the way i monitor it
is to you know you monitor the network now it's in your own now it's and if they're different
then you've got a problem but um you know you still then have to go and find out why and then fix it
but if you just constantly restart the process then it'll fix itself anyway so instead of like
i'll just say that i love the way you pronounced and once now i know every time i'm like oh
how do you guys say and once what really oh because it stands for number once right that's what
yeah i thought was i always pronounce nuns though oh because nuns in the uk nuns really specific thing
what nuns means pedophile in the uk why is no it means it means it doesn't oh what no so there's
a lot there were like there was a thing in a i swear to god we've had like four different
conversations where you've said oh yeah that word meets pedophile in the uk like i thought like
it like a board different terms like there are a lot of words for pedo in the uk
they're they're they're gonna have a way different where i was like we're always bumping up some
sort of pedophile definition there was obviously a big there was like a big pedophilia freak out in
like the early 2000s like to the extent like the peak of it was when this this uh pediatrician
like got attacked in the street or something by like a gang like a mob um it was it got super weird
all the all the rig big stupid newspapers were like being big and stupid about being stupid
but nuns is a really old word anyway um from memory but um but there was a thing in the papers
right where i think there's like a hacker house in south korea called like nuns house um and somebody
had just literally taken a photo they just walked past it on holiday taken a photo and sold it to the
sun or something like that i've been like all right that's pretty funny um and then they were like
nuns house in korea they're like what are they doing in there kind of thing and you're like oh
it's crypto brothers jeez what are they doing there bring it down the economic order by with
poorly tested code don't worry it's just economic terrorism it's not pedophilia
relax folks relax folks it's not that bad um yeah but that's why i would pronounce it nuns but
obviously then not you you have to you can't uh yeah so you just have to say i had once because
yeah pedos once again sport by pedophilia um should we do drill sweet of the week yeah
letting i'll do it i feel like it's nulls turn i'm getting a strong now learn stop give me that
neck get that neck beard it's well now you've got your diploma your neck be a diploma okay ready
stop right hand page third one okay be warned america first they get us fired from amtrack for
saying jacking off in the control car is good next they start poisoning our wendy's okay moving on
why do we we try
yeah they're not all they're not all hits they're not all hits um do we have any news
yeah so notional stuff what's going on yes 11 11 devs well you know initially the
the time that all i read was 11 but this little update that long's put out says 13 now so i don't
know if some more have left as well i thought in that first tweet it was nine keeps going up i think
it does keep going up yeah number go up bullish it's bullish i like a lot of subversion of how many
how many devs do notional even have i mean 14 14 now well there's one noisy crazy person and then
13 devs there was a great tweet with obviously i had no idea sorry i'm gonna try and find the
sweet so there's a treat that has like their their organization structure i'm gonna try and
find it real quick because it actually showed how many devs and employees in marketing they had
before and it was a lot it was at least 30 yeah i do recall um so i think notional might have made
a tweet or i definitely do recall seeing something that said that they had like 30 or so devs or people
at that company that's a lot of devs yeah like if you look on the notional ventures website
you do scroll for a while to get through all of the people that work there i mean it's not even
worth it's just it's it's like throwing a cat in a bin isn't it it's like it's like kicking a puppy
at this point to be like i wonder what project management structure you have for hiring 30 devs
in three in two years you know it's really hard to grow a team quickly even with really solid
structures in a tech organization yeah so the news is is that now 13 devs have left uh notional and
you know that represents some challenges for example uh the key rotations or the inability
to do key rotations on cosmos chains so long was the infrastructure lead and holds a lot of the keys
for the notional validators so um well and other things too right there was a bunch of grant related
distributions and a bunch of shit that yeah i wouldn't mind betting that a lot of those people who
have departed are on multi six as well so yeah well and i thought there was a tweet from
him long as well around being able to somebody posted i think a screenshot which i can grab and
throw in the notes but about being able to say he's been touched with his attorneys or something
else is in to give those keys back and whatever else which means you kind of get to a point where
those multi six are now a single sink because they're all in the same hands which they nothing
doesn't mean that they were in the past either because right so i think we've we've complained
maybe a bunch of times about about having multi six where the majority is on the same damn team
and like what's the point like what are we doing and is a good example of that
so what's the right way to say that long owns 13 percent of the stock in the company i thought it
was 30 percent i thought it was 30 sorry that's what i meant to say 30 percent yeah which it sounds
like he's giving that back as well um so i'm not sure if that is if it's actually stock i mean that's
a transfer which means there'd be a it's cost of that hey tax discussion um but maybe not there
and uh but yeah it sounds like he's he said he's giving that back so i'm not sure if there's a
payment for that or what because that would have value of some sort yeah i don't think you can just
give stuff away i don't know i don't know how that works for tax i only see three
devs on there on their website oh it says it says made up of 30 plus dedicated members
is that going down website eats an update oh you're counting the ones that actually have the title
of dev well there's only there's only like 10 pictures on there about last page of which only
three are engineers yeah so i mean does this does this matter at all it matters from i guess
notional having a bunch of grants for a bunch of work that needs to be done and payments either
influx or matters to that right because the hop has a an outstanding thing well quick silver
quick silver posted something about it today i forget there was other teams too um that came out
and had something like yeah it's not going to affect us type of thing so i think what i
ain't got any any project that they're involved in um i didn't really see i didn't really look for
jake and stuff but i didn't really see anything come back with his comments related to it um
but it seems like being quiet is probably the best idea at least to start with till you have a
bit more of a plan so what's interesting is that um since the departure of these employees
notional have been jailed on several um networks as well yeah i saw i also saw that they were
yeah they're missing in a bunch of stuff i saw like say i think they're they're they're involved
in a bunch of stuff and say as well both with wormhole yeah yeah yeah like relaying wormhole
yeah a bunch of stuff there i think they've been jailed on e-money injective i don't know about
other ones but i'm not sure if that's a key issue or hopefully there's no like sabotage that would be
that that'd be a little bit ridiculous but well it definitely wasn't they were they were jailed on
pego yeah f***ing pego it's like just the worst everyone getting f***ing jake it's a big slash too
yeah it's expensive just king nodes and notional everyone getting packed by pego everyone getting
pegged yeah um so yeah i guess this i guess this isn't too surprising right i mean from a news
perspective or well yeah i mean well well i guess i had never heard from like i talked along uh
occasionally yeah and some of the other guys there and no one ever really indicated that they were
discontent or whatever looking to leave yeah but um so a bit of a surprise in that regard but um
you know people leave companies yeah usually not 13 at a time but yes they do well i mean steakfish
had a bunch of people leave and start another company you tsugi yeah he did i think uh dimmy
might have even gone there as well yep so there's dan and dimmy and a bunch of other people at uh
utsugi i think is how you say it from memory i mean generally when you see like a masterparch or it
usually means that an organization is in some degree of trouble just let's be honest yes yeah um
either from a leadership perspective or financial or something else but yeah well it's there would
it be evidently there is a disagreement on some sort of principled thing there to have that many
people leave being paid i mean it could be it and i don't know yeah it's all just speculation
no one said why they're leaving yeah yeah i mean i think i yeah like validator income is i don't know
what the what the dev market's like in vietnam but validator income is likely not going to sustain a
team of 30 um although they take a ton of money from the hub don't they so um plus other stuff
so maybe that lads up to it to enough to cover it i don't know yeah i like that um people call it the
notional hard fork hard fork yep nice there um yeah but anyway so maybe the root of the dispute
was on a proper code comment etiquette or something whether or not you can commit um go mod tidy
go mod tidy go mod tidy and on its own is not to commit that is a tidy up is um i mean to us your
your linter should just so but on rust builds you it just does that essentially that for
the build system does that should be a classic
oh fuck no it's not going to be called notional classic great great comment from the chat there
um yeah um so i mean there is other news that we yeah should we move on to other news because
who gives a shit really um i'm sure to be honest i i guess what what would probably happen is all
the devs that we're doing like the lion share of the work will will just pick up the maintenance
contracts in the future um from the places that notional previously had them i guess and uh
yeah and and the and the party will continue uh as it as it was always going to um maybe with
a really good drama i mean we've left out kind of in my opinion one of the more interesting
takes on it right what's going to happen with the what is 150 000 atom that was given to them that's
now kind of sitting is there like that that was given to them over the next five years knowing
that they would be doing some sort of development if they're going to do that development is there
going to be a clawback prop coming up like how is that going to resolve itself because is it
animal really fascinating is there a multi yeah and was there a contract like what was how was
that given to them or was that matter this is the cosmos right prop 16 there was no contract
and so we clawed well i don't even i don't even know the correct state of prop 16 funds let's just
say that somebody is currently writing a paper right and and that whatever whatever happened
to the situation you're describing will be watched closely by the person that is writing this paper
to see what happens because it's interesting isn't it um it's yeah i mean i i actually i
to be fair i don't remember it's far enough in the past i don't actually remember the terms of
that but from what i remember the the tokens were given wholly too notional essentially as an advance
on work right so yeah if i remember correctly yeah a legal perspective those assets now belong to that
organization and i don't think there's in any enforceable contracts in any court now that
could say that there anything other than a down payment on work essentially a retainer it will
be the cosmos kangaroo court that is governance what have something to say about it oh boy i think
this is this is one of those where um yeah the split the difference in a fudge uh is is probably
the actual outcome um as it's the only thing that is kind of defensible to a mob and also
potentially defensible to a legal authority but it's interesting isn't it like possession is
nine-tenths of the law unless you're on a proof of state chain right well yeah and then if you take
into account that jay would might vote yes on a prop to clausland's back just for the sake of
watching the world burn and to make adam look worse like that's like what is it 12 of the entire
voting power right there so fascinating stuff fascinating stuff well yeah well i mean it's
interesting because right most validators whatever they think are going to vote no right on the principle
of like this is prop 16 but it i guess the thing that's different now is we're in a bear market
there's less attention from kind of rank and file like djens and also the proportion of people
staked through a custodial staking provider like kraken or whatever it might be on the hub is that
much higher so and those wallets aren't voting right and those validators wouldn't vote on something
like this so it would be interesting to like academically interesting to know what like how
differently the voting would break down versus what we've seen elsewhere in the cosmos where
there are more active individual wallets and inverted commas because obviously you know we
they're individual wallets but they could also be the micro whale you know just to reheat that
conspiracy theory which is definitely not conspiracy theory in the micro whale definitely
exists the micro whale absolutely the micro game of notes has been party to to decent information
on the possibility of the micro whale actually existing so i am a firm i'm a firm believer
that's real i don't believe in ghost stories but i do believe in the micro whale of course there's a
micro whale god damn but yeah so that's my take i'm curious what's gonna end up with that with that
funds um yeah uh bed davis there's no way the hub goes beyond the signaling prop well as you might
recall technically prop 16 was a signaling prop so it only takes a signaling prop to get everybody
said to jail anyway yeah i might just you know hold off on finishing up this paper until we see how
that one thrashes out because that that could be some that could be a really great case study anyway
um oh wait hang on somebody's added another line to this spreadsheet since i last looked at it
that usually happens there's another line there's another line about about crypto
regulation coming for us node operators oh that wasn't there that wasn't when we started doing the news
maybe maybe rama's on here expanding the news section as we speak maybe i just hallucinated
that it it wasn't what um okay um so one thing actually so before we move on to the next news
news item uh i know it came up last week the rama's concerns with usdc um something something
that i noticed i don't know if this is true of i don't know which state which central bank digital
currencies this is true of i think it's true of the perspective swiss design and i think it's true of
the bank of england's uh tech working document but the blocked wallets is explicitly because it
okay like it came up last last week when ben and rama were talking about it in the light of usdc
which i think is the next new news item on the list the idea of having um like a block.go or
similar sort of thing um is explicitly out of scope of the design like you should always be able to
spend the funds but the regulate as i understand the regulatory um stress is on the is on the
essentially the recipient at the point that they then withdraw funds so you know it's obviously a
very very different uh case like because there's obviously fully centralized and they are cbdc's
in the truest sense but um it's kind of kind of an interesting thing that like a lot of these
sort of decentralized versions of the stablecoin are likely to have like exactly the same um restrictions
on spending but like implemented in a really different place in the in the technology stack
and it's just a bit of a shower for anyway so um i'm going to read rama's title in full cosmos
welcomes the uscbdc with open arms how long until the first blacklist event oh he does love that
comment it's just weird to me he does that comments weird to me anyway because osmosis already has a
blacklist so the blacklist event has already happened and now we're just going to get expanded
like who cares maybe that's maybe that's the hot take yeah like i think rama is a decentralization
maxi and doesn't like the ability to freeze funds but what about usd t does it have also the ability
to freeze funds on carver i think maybe i think it's no isn't it that it can stop you actually
sending like it anti-handlers out the send my question is osmosis did it my question is is
if you have a blacklisted wallet on noble does that stop you from using tokens on other networks
that have been i bc'd so if half your bag was on osmosis and it gets blacklisted from noble like
i don't think it would matter because the the the ability to transact is done locally at chain
level right 100 it's it's conceptually the same it is conceptually the same as um it as an aside
right this is my understanding of why the swiss design works the way it does is because they have
offline like a notion of offline access to um the the currency right and in that world you can't
ever know that somebody who shouldn't like let's put aside whether or not you think some people
should be able to transact or not right if if you actually do want to implement any kind of a
block list ultimately the place you have to do it is at the ingress and an egress from the system
because it's the only place you know that they're they are connected at all times and it's the only
point it's the only single point of passage where you know somebody has to come in and out
which is why the question of whether or not you can move in out of cbdc's via permissionless
network is so interesting because as you've identified now that guarantee breaks down
because you can just move to another blockchain then another blockchain then to a centralized
exchange and then it's up to the centralized exchange to work out whether or not you are a
great guy or not which is primarily i suppose can be like i guess if you're like a business or
something it's never going to affect one of us because we're just businesses right they're just
going to assume that if you have a business account everything's above board you've done your kyc you
probably fine right so i don't know if it's maybe it's being flipping as somebody who kind of represents
a business working in the space but it seems like a bit of a nothing burger you know yeah 100% i think
it's entirely unenforceable because unless you have your tokens on noble and they've
have blacklisted your wallet or frozen it that you can't use those tokens anymore i mean in reality
95% of the usdc is going to live in the bloody escrow wallet anyway so you know people aren't
going to hold it there they're going to be using it elsewhere in defy so i mean and so easily like
can be mitigated even if you wanted to send it back out through noble you could like just swap it
send it to another address on osmosis and then straight back out before they would even have
time to blacklist that address so i don't know i'm also curious what the blacklist mechanism
looks like because surely it doesn't require an upgrade to add something to the blacklist
so now i think it's done by admin i feel like i'd have to look at the code to make a more educated
comment then because obviously i'm pretty sure rama posted something about this way back when
they did the launch about the admin being able to um blacklist addresses
so there's a contract admin on noble but so this is obviously very different than from the osmosis
implementation if it's some kind of a hash map of blocked addresses that can be added to there is a
question i suppose of whether or not that should be a dowl um at the risk of like you know summoning
jake um the if it if there's some kind of element of um of decision but then but then
fuck the like who wants to be on that dowl like the sticking your neck out to be absolutely
hammered by law enforcement dowl yeah no thanks i think it would only be like it's not catching
it it'd be some sort of corporate entity for us dc i would say that if they were ordered to
blacklist something by the government they could do it yeah i guess you kind of need like an auditor
or a kyc i mean this is kind of the fucking this is literally back to what circle do this is this is
literally circle a circle or an auditor slash kyc company that happened to run a sht I stablecoin
i need to say sht coin i meant stablecoin but maybe i mean sht coin um so maybe your circle
does easy to add that as a service on their website like we will for a percentage of tokens will
will be on the dowl that are definitely going to go to prison please adopt usdc um where are they
based they're based in the states aren't they circle usdc law they're based in the states yeah
yeah how do they get away with that it's well eventually it won't i'm sure it's a matter of
time like all things it's all it's just they haven't got to that part of the list yeah it's
just it's coming down in their way down stuff yeah we've got this like they're like something
something something something something something something validator something something stablecoin
yeah like rhinos on the list you know the meme the meme of the guy like behind the tree like
clicking this chops going like that's them when they see stablecoin on their list that's right
nature of business they're like stablecoin they're like oh yes depends on the dpegs are they profitable
so ben ben davis says he's going back to ust and there's been a recent resurgence in the price of
ust so it was up to five cents at some point so it's substantially below a dollar isn't it
hey it's moving in the right direction yeah as long as you buy that point zero zero zero five cents
you're fucking making well didn't didn't you have a large bag of oh no it was uh the the luna classic
that you bought up on the on the way down yeah yeah yeah we bouncing for sure artifact well i think i
dumped like a bunch of chihuahua and it was like that whatever yeah one for the other i think i sold
uh our holdings of kerb um yeah or maybe that's what it was it was servers it wasn't sure yeah we
we just dumped it all the way down just like it was it was like i don't know five hundred dollars
worth of kerb it was like 28 million luna exactly on osmosis because obviously the i bc stuff was
totally locked already and now and then there was a period of time where it still was on osmosis but
had like an exclamation mark where it was it was sort of frowning at you it's like look you fucker
we know that the only people that bought this on the way down a disaster tourist and you're one of
them and we are not fucking unlocking this and we are not going to let you trade it even it is only
worth a fraction of what you bought it for even then even though you lost money on this degenerate
activity we are not happy about you having done it when you get the osmosis 2d gen flag you know
you're in some fucking deep waters there they even got a frontier right like that's all fine
yeah we don't need that shit just what what all right but this one stay away from this one
2d gen that's the one 2 2 gm for osmosis um as you fact two out of four of the panel as well i think
that technically makes game of notes 2d genera for osmosis um too funny i just read ben
but in the chat ben's last comment and my brain just fully exited the building on account of it
being a complex football analogy and it's just like football i'll put them in time out time out
it put them in time out for that one uh come on it's getting late we don't do that here right so
completely unrelated the uh oh no all right different tangent off you go oh yeah the new
fargo uh series is is yet another banger just in case you were wondering okay sorry i get distracted
i'll shoot i'll shoot if we if we're doing if we're doing tangents uh we didn't we didn't talk
about so no you can if you want to go think about fargo for a second this is this is your time um
fargo is brilliant all right the the apto stress net uh wrapped up last time just before
thanksgiving um what was learned vfm's nothing in the new world they're totally toast
they learned i think they learned stuff i think they learned stuff um we i don't think we can
talk about some of the specifics but yeah something you chain go burr you know yeah actually the
interesting piece of that was them talking about doing it again in february which is pretty short
here like i'm like well maybe i'll just hold on to these machines it's only i think i'm i'm paying
through them through mid december it's only an extra month we've already cancelled us yeah i i cancel
up why the it was just like yeah it's a vital friend another week and also it's beyond like um
we were using a company called hostkey uh to get hold of those epics and the experience of using
them was not it was fine but it was not great um yeah yeah we had one of our vfm's was on there
yeah the vfm's we had just like the fact that they were like clocking like 70 degrees or something
so i don't think they had that they were not like the cooling was not top-notch and whatnot they
were they were totally fucked so um i think our ovh contacts were saying that they should have some
epic nine they do have epics available in any three years of entry as of this month um or early
december so i think if there is another another preview network we they are the the scale series
scale scale sixes or whatever they call the new new ones i believe not too expensive either
yeah they're comparatively priced given how powerful they are um so i think if we were our main takeaway
for that is we would not have if we're gonna do that again wouldn't spec vfm's really much lower
than the the vows at all like maybe slightly lower but they they seem to be really having
trouble with with that pruning and it seemed to be pretty resource intensive well they also
they also said they had some vfm code issues as well so i don't even know at the end i thought
i think the last couple runs they they were fine uh on that last build so i i think you're right i
i hate to do two times what we had because that would be just really pricey yeah well i mean
it's new we might have to do that right because the other the other thing we're hearing now is that
main net spec uh recommended spec is increasing but you know the there is a question here of like
you know not being too facetious about it but uh if a foundation is like well we think the base spec
for this chain should be this but it you know if the main net is not doing the numbers to require
that then you know that's a that's to to there but yeah like this this is where we want to be but
realistically this is where you need to be like yeah but but to the to their point like when we do
have spikes of like a thousand tps or something that like i don't know some mint or something else
there's like 10 10 12 that drop like i just fall out of the set like every time like you can actually
monitor it and so so i i don't think i mean i'm guessing even some people are running way low
specs on there like we run 73 13s i think is what we run um and uh and which is which is fine for
right now um but but i could see like but again and also that that new consensus engine and some
of the stuff they're doing in the sharding piece i thought it was using a little bit more resources
than the old way um so maybe the base is about the size of the discs for sure yeah it there's
there there's definitely something because we were monitoring like the actual disc usage and no
where no time at any point did we really come up anywhere near one terabyte right yeah used space
and yet a one terabyte drive which had plenty of headroom performed so much worse than the two
terabyte drive than a four terabyte drive yeah and you know looking at the pure spec sheet
those drives should have been functionally identical same manufacturer same iops and everything
but there's obviously something about the amount of headroom you have and i'm too much of cloud weenie
so a couple of rando rando ask questions how big is like this database on aptos is it like over
it's down to like no it proves down to like 300 gigs something like that so like have any of you
guys just tried running it in ram uh i haven't we talked about that actually i talked about that in
preview night actually we were i was talking to somebody because i had one machine with like
768 we talked about that actually just run the whole thing in ram seeing what would happen
the the a6 can have a terabyte of ram scale a6 terabyte yeah that's a pretty interesting idea
you could also raid zero like six nvmes on that thing that's that's what i did yeah yeah we had
actually we had a pretty big issue with it i think we talked about last week but we had a big issue with
five drives raid raid zeroed and and had like a really weird epic like it was really weird where
we'd have like really high latency on some drives it was like really funky and once i got rid of
md80m and just went to lvm then then actually it all kind of cleared up it was really kind of
strange i think it's just like new chip new bios like too early type stuff but so this this scale a6
you can also get an unmeted 10 gig line which is pretty decent i know i just actually i just
stood up five machines in this data center that we use in new york and they're all on 10 gigs and i
had to grab a bore snapshot it was like 5.4 terabytes was like fucking just blasted in there i love it
that was crazy is that in uh in your racks did you end up getting a 10 gig no no i'm at we're
we're talking a lot about what we're gonna do with those racks like just because i'm running
less and less and less there and so i'm trying to figure out what what the long-term plans
anyway i like you might sunset the old uh i'm just gonna i might i might shrink them i might just
because we have like i think like total 20 machines running and i might try to get that down to like
six i think we like king nodes is still considering operating some some of your rack space so yeah
you can yeah there's space is fine running hardwares with fucking pain yes i tell everybody don't do
it like we had an nvme drive burn out today which is just a pain and like it's just it's just it's
it's exhausting like it's just shit like i don't want to be you don't want to be on it you always
want to run it hey before i gotta i gotta run quickly but um one thing i did want to say is we
are going to been talking to the omniflux team get actually reached out to us and so we're going to
be publishing uh game of nodes at least the youtube piece on omniflux tv every week we're
going to add that to our structure so the only thing i can't do without actually talking to them
about a little bit was it'd be nice if we could create uh if jake's here actually it would be nice
if we could create because you can create like a creator account and then you can create like
uploader accounts through that which is really cool it'd be really great if the creator account
was through the was through the doubt yeah um and then after that we could create a um a uh
then i could upload right or any of us could upload uh associated that but the creator account
would be cool because then we can set like just the overall logo and also the kind of shit and
then um from there it the be uploaded everything else just through ipfs which we're very familiar
with um and setting the metadata and all that kind of stuff so i think we're going to start with
this one which is episode 90 uh and that one will be the first one up there and i've been talking to
them is also and then we're going to come up with a way to be able to then talk about how we're going
to get the other 89 up there and i want to do it in a way that looks good and is sorted the right
way and not fucked up right so we've been talking about that as well um no fucking crazy right yeah
so um so anyway that first one i'm going to try to do um maybe tonight or tomorrow and um and then
i see jake reaching out that would be cool if we could do that um and really all we need i think
it's just us it's just through the omniflux ui and it's just a creator i think we'd need like
basically two transactions to be able to create the creator account and then to be able to create
i think an uploader to start um and then from there i think i can upload everything and create
metadata for it and everything else but it looks i mean like like we've been talking about before
with the omniflux ui's it's pretty slick it's pretty cool it'd be nice to be able to have that at least
somewhere um within the cosmos ecosystem and then we can link out to that directly um and we can
capture views and if we want to do like other silly stuff in there which which is and that's not
silly it's silly for us it's actually cool functionality but like doing polls in there
are other types of things would be fun um and so uh but yeah we're gonna we're gonna start doing that
just adding a little bit more workload for us you know it's all good and uh it'd be it'd be great
um it'd be great to be able to find a way to uh auto upload those or find a way to at least
kind of make that easier and so i'll um we'll work on that and see what happens eventually
i'd like i mean a long-term plan what i really like to do which i think would be really cool
is for the podcast right now we use a third party to host that and it's all they're doing is hosting
the metadata right it's just an rss feed it's totally available us for us to be able to do
but it'd be great to put those podcast episodes and ipfs as well for us to run our own hosting site
build our own rss feed and then we can link that to ipfs um and it have that be distributed as well
that's on the plan we just need to come up with like a website design and podcast rss feeds are
just not very different hold holding you consensus engine and blockchain just do if we back up from
there you're right we need a new chain we need l one we just think about this but yeah then we got
to back up from there so i guess we have to talk about the tokenomics of the podcast i guess is
what we need to first start with i get to the u.s all that done then we're going to begin actually
news just in the dowes broke the dowes broke you break it broke this month we're broke after we pay
rama um as luck would have it i anticipated this in advance and i left some money in a
in an exchange ready to put into atom center osmosis by usdc piss off rama and put it into our doubt
well maybe you can be helped by the new cctp cctp pretty cool yep pretty cool man that
fucking that's uh cctp.money is is money what is this right that is the implementation of
circles um transfer protocol which is basically a non-bridge bridge of usdc between l ones
and like there's a bunch of those like wormhole portal and a bunch of the ones use that same
cctcctp protocol and then noble just enabled it and so none of the other i don't at least i haven't
seen any of the other quote unquote bridges or cctp portals have noble in there yet but cctp.money
does which we think is uh i forget who we found it was who was it i forget who it was it's somebody
from the strange love team and um so that allows basically free or free zero dollar bridge because
you're really just bridging usdc between smart contracts on two different chains um and noble
can go right now between ethereum uh dydx terra persistence cosmos hub juno and stargaze are all
on there which is pretty cool i mean some of those seem like i i b i bc versus an actual bridge but
whatever right if you have dollar eds in a centralized exchange you're still like it has to be
in a personal wallet this doesn't mean it doesn't help you you can you can move it to a you can move
it to a centralized exchange assuming that there's no memo fields that's where the dollar eds are
if they're if they're coming out of a personalized exchange yes you would not be able to do that you
have to basically move out to it we have some apt ready to pay uh pay the kanga dude you have money
coming in uh one of those in it's left everything here right now is slowing the other way yeah so
but yeah pretty cool it's it's um there's no code for this out i didn't see anything in the source
code available um you know take a look for what you will it is using cctp um and uh which has
been pretty tested here but maybe not with uh you know with noble uh no ledger support yet
i tried it last night failed but uh but yeah pretty cool rama's asked whether he can instead be
paying kanga bucks um unfortunately rama rm our roadmap for implementing a uh blind proof based
cbdc that we could pay you in anonymously uh it's about three years so if you're prepared to
wait and accrue a bit of interest um then i can furnish you uh i maybe a bit less if you're
prepared to use the command line we could make we can maybe work something out i can i can i could
issue some some proofs and you can redeem them with your central bank if they agree the most
genuine kanga bucks available is actually beer so that's probably more of a versatile currency in
australia so technically i could could take you to the pub rama and pay you in schooners
except i don't know how the rest of the the squad is going to contribute to that that's a lot of
beers as well i mean i've seen waking fruit really not in australia i'll see you sir i
well i don't know like what's what's the going rate for a schooner of beer wow pints like a pint
of the good shit is like i don't know 15 bucks and what's 15 bucks in in freedom bucks
10 bucks that's still quite a lot of beers well they met a good a good weekend's drinking
you could maybe you can maybe sink that out i don't know like we it's yeah i don't know you
can easily spend 200 bucks in a night though 200 us is 300 bucks maybe yeah i mean you can
give it a stab those they they they rack up quick man it doesn't take much to have like at least 10
pints you can tell that you can tell that that i don't leave the house very much anymore because
i'm just like but but but in between getting the baby to bed and then when i run out of energy and
i just want to be asleep myself there's only enough time to physically drink two liters of
liquid which is four pints like how how could you have 10 that would involve being up later
or not in your house for longer mm it's our bizarre concept although i have noticed now that the one
beer at lunch time when you're in the office has become we can have one more because i only tell
me around the house you're like this is fucking great let's have another beer with lunch and then
you wonder why it's like 2 30 in the afternoon you've done fuck since you got back and you're like
yes because i don't drink anymore and i've just had two beers so i'm fucking drunk and just wasted
an afternoon let's go before being full-time crypto the only bar to me not getting wanker during
the day was the fact that i had to drive home at some point so yeah i've noticed that you see
that's the thing like you can you can trick yourself when you ride when you you get on the bike
but i've noticed there's definitely a limit about four pints and you start to go
hmm this might not be safe i probably should have got literally any other can you not get a
dui riding your bike while drinking in the uk and you can't in australia you can't you get a
dui you can't get your license revoked kind of thing riding a bike has nothing to do with driving
a car they're different activities yeah i think in australia you would only get you get a wine
riding a bicycle drunk you get fine if you hit somebody and you're drunk you go to prison on a
bike okay and the us you can get your license revoked if you're riding your bike and drinking
i think if you like i think i genuinely own somebody can correct me on this i think if you
hit somebody with your bike because you were drunk while riding your bike you would go to
prison but you would keep your driving license because they are separate data points you're like
you're an idiot cyclist but you might be a very very very sensible car driver and vice versa although
of course you lose your driving license and you just continue to cycle so you know yo though i think
our system is more archaic and that if you're riding a bike similarly if you're riding a skateboard
and you're drinking you can get your driver's license revoked because if you're on something
that's not feet then you are driving a vehicle and that it's just it's black and very black and
white with that so anything that applies to vehicles if you're on a skateboard technically
you're supposed to be on the road it's illegal for you to be on the sidewalk because you are on
yes well no it's it's no you know here it's super it's super complicated i think skateboards and
roller skates you should be on the pavement but you give way to other pedestrians if you are
in a bike on a bike you're supposed to be in the road anything over 25 kilometers an hour you have
to be in the road legally and you're not so on a bike you could like hop onto the pavement
just to walk to like like cut off a corner or because the road wasn't safe you could like ride
on the pavement for like i don't know 50 meters or something and that people were probably like
you're not supposed to but it would be kind of fine but like i think as soon as you can go over
25 kilometers an hour so like i guess some e-bikes then as soon as you if you took it on the pavement
at all that would like instant fine points on your license although it wouldn't be points on
your license because i don't think you have to have a license plate for a scooter below 150 ccs
but anyway it's by the bike the uk system is complex except that it's kind of not you basically
it's boys would be boys it's complex as soon as you try and work out whether anybody should be
punished if you just assume boys would be boys but if you do anything with a car moped or motorcycle
you're going to lose your license then that's the way to think about it so it is not sound boys
will be boys yeah um you know the but the the but the thing is the american system makes kind of
lots and there's a lot of places which extend that to other stuff too like i think in the check
republic like gun ownerships like that if you like a court like do anything done with a gun
they're like yeah we're just going to take your driving license as well because you're obviously
a fucking idiot um like this is a privilege you get it you're going to have it but like you know
all these things are contingent the car the gun the big guys get to work a contingent are you not
being a fuck up so but um yeah as always citation needed on that one go go go go we compete that for
yourself uh listeners i apologize i think probably the safest way to get home via your own transport
drunk would be a horse yep horses pretty wow taking hot takes out here yeah you just get on there and
fucking sit and then they'll get home eventually because they wouldn't know where the food is yeah
i i as somebody who doesn't own a horse or ride a horse i could go along with that i base my opinion
on absolutely no practical experience of horses well i mean you don't have to operate it it's got
its own brain hey uh and then you just it'll go home and eat the grass it's all good so more news
shall we news i never can get the emojis a trigger um yes let's do it so the next news
point actually is related to a friend of the poddo it's in she was you can trigger it no effort
any wider anyway i'm over it um what do you mean even shortly implying that i'm a sub citizen
no no but like like like like so nulls webcam is actually quite good right i think you're no
offense shorts but yours is like a little bit below the general quality of nulls webcam so i'm
just like it's not a it's not a webcam thing it's a i'm in the wrong ass place and this this shit
doesn't like me um probably has a hard time distinguishing between you and all of the crap in the
background there is a lot of crap in here at the moment do you see well as as you may be aware i do
multiple things for a living and let's just say that i have a bunch of stuff that is current is
not actually mine and somebody needs to fucking come here and pick it up because it is now taking
over my entire office to the extent that i'm just like i need to cycle into the office in order to
get any work done because it's just it's kind of like you just know there's all these boxes
like creeping up on you when you're working you just typing away at the desk and you're like
like this yeah there's a couple kind of cosmic horror element to what's going on behind me so
i appreciate it god it's bad isn't it um but so next news item uh a adow after a successful
first year proposes an improved structure and atom allocation it is only putting 14 people on the
payroll and one and one million dollars in atom bonuses that's where i'm as headline although i will
say that i don't 14 are those 14 people full time there's something weird with this um so
the hot tag is like it one million for 14 people i don't think is really asking too much if they're
doing it even part time right like ideally be full time but there'll also be contracts you
got to like round up whatever blah blah blah but i think the emphasis is really on the bonuses
they have a salary and i believe they're receiving bonuses um if i'm reading the the prop correctly
so it's more like like 2.4 million i think in total compensation for the 14 people okay that is
quite a lot of money um i'm just rereading the uh you can probably tell i'm rereading the uh the
the statement on the the hub forum okay so rama corrected me it is 1.2 million in salaries
and then one million in bonuses yeah so 2.2 million going towards 14 people which seems
excessive so with the caveat here that so a adow is transitioning to being predominantly full time
25 the workforce full time moving to 60 being full time so i mean 60 being full time it's
still not it's just majority but it's not um so the difficulty here right is that i don't think
anybody saying should take money from a dow like a a dow or backstantion atom
to quit their job and go full time unless they are guaranteeing you two years of salary up front
are they giving it to you in your hand like to quit an actual job in the real world and come do this
shit so sounds like a lot of money but you're just like the the risk of just getting rugged in six months
and then being like well this money's gonna last me till i find a new job um and and you know maybe
that's being overly paranoid because it'd be easy to find a new job i don't know but i guess you're
kind of looking at the worst-case scenario where this is a risky thing that didn't work out it somehow
looks bad to prospective future employers and you just have a gap on your CV um i don't know like it
it it is it is higher it's still is still quite a lot of money though isn't it? What amounts to
$160,000 or so each in compensation for the year which isn't absurd like it's not crazy
it's not crazy but also 60 and it was 60% of them full this full time now which means somewhere yes
which means yeah so you've got to assume that skewed upwards for the people that are full time and
skewed downwards for the people that are part of time i guess so i don't know like in any case what
like isn't their job just to like give grants? Yeah and then get fucking shit on twitter
but why do they need 14 people like that seems excessive in itself? Maybe we should
invite someone from the AADOW on here and explain it to us. Yeah bendy we could have
asked bendy's left. No bendy bendy left i wasn't being facetious i wasn't i mean actually we
should invite someone like yusef i've talked with him before he might be someone we could
bring on like hey what so what's the search exactly? What's the search yeah i'm cool i'm
cool with that we could do that. Yeah i mean like yeah i just i look at what have they actually
and look i'm no AADOW authority but like reading through their proposal and
them articulating what the like the value that they've actually provided back to Adam Holders
wasn't evident to me. I don't think that's fair though what do you mean? I think it only existed
for one year and the runway to see the the change in value of Adam or for the products to be fully
delivered i think it's too quick to really know. I mean so i did say that you know i feel like they
struggled to articulate the value that they had provided. I see i see i see. For example like
the only thing that i saw them cite was that they had some coin in the treasury that was part of a
deal that was worth 22 million dollars so arguably you could not realize that for 22 million dollars
but that's what they cite as their big win but you know. And they're asking for 10 million dollars
which obviously reduces that amount to. Well i don't think you could hit me anyway but they
they didn't really you know say but we have all of these other things in the pipeline that we've
done deals with with expected returns of you know whatever i think would have been a way to phrase
their effectiveness in the role at least if that makes sense. Yeah and there's quite a lot to be
honest a lot of these partnerships are fucking okay deep hot takes time here but like who gives
fuck about some of these partnerships. Oh like oh community focus web 3 coalition stanford blockchain
club oh blockchain at Berkeley oh how original i don't think anybody's ever talked to blockchain
about blockchain at Berkeley University before yeah you need to spend like loads of money on that.
You can just fucking turn up in a pirate hat and say who wants to work in crypto at 100
fucking guys will start a blockchain company like i don't know i'm being a prick there's
actually some also some good names the the partnerships list that are those ones i'll just
focus not being a prick because that is my job right here. Here might be a little bit of a
prick move on my part why would you go with onker for rpc provisioning within the cosmos
why not go with like known providers like rhino as an example we know he had has excellent
provisioning for rpc services why would you go with onker some some some completely outside of
ecosystem rather than someone internal that yeah and there's also like a bunch of like
like oracles super oracles okay fine security audits are like you know whatever man like
yeah and then also like the whole the the trustee thing there's like oh we interviewed a few
companies and we decided to go with this british law firm that's going to cost 50 000 pounds a year
and you're like okay they're going to cost 50 000 pounds a year what else did they bring
into that table because like i'm also not being a total fucking prick here when i say that like the
there are a lot of problems with the way crypto is done and regulated in the UK but there's also a
lot of expert there is actually a lot of legal expertise in terms of how you actually negotiate
negotiate that within the context of the UK and specifically the city of london which is
one of the largest financial hubs on the fucking planet so that trustee what are they bringing
oh yeah i'm not an expert in every chartered accountancy in the UK despite the amount we
talk about accountancy on this podcast but like you know these these folks like safari whatever
they're called what are they bringing to the to the table in terms of additional expertise
they took there's a lot of stuff here about institutional investors if if that is the goal the
state of goal that is one of the yeah it says trad five partnerships is a big pillar here
your choice of legal firm trustee all that kind of stuff you're doing it in the UK
is that is that a city firm what are their connections what are their partnerships what
are you getting for your 50 000 pounds which is quite a lot of money there's i mean i'm actually
not against this proposal to be honest i think in general terms it needs to be done the number
seems a bit high there's some specifics where you can nitpick amni in the room helping with who knows
who and whatnot so you know what the fuck do i know you know as always but it's kind of back to
the difficulty is it's kind of a little bit back to the trust us and see right which is
and that always boils down to like who do you know that you recognize on that committee to
actually trust because the if you don't actually know somebody on it it's very hard to make that
leap of trust that is being looked at like you know we we know bendy we've spoken to bendy a lot
if bendy said to me oh you know actually you know his don't worry we've actually thought about a bunch
of this stuff it's all super well worked out but like you know actually a bendy's professional trust
and you know whatever fine but then we're back to like all these thousand things they just rely on
the politics of personality and they rely on you knowing people and being an insider to make an
informed decision and you're like i mean well fuck that's every human system right i shouldn't be
complaining about that that's just obvious come on fray well i think i think i think so while it's
fun to shit on this proposal i think it's really easy to also make the argument for the price right
so if we look at you know the market cap of adam let's see it is currently almost three billion
and this is 10 million for a year's worth of accelerators effectively right i know as most
this is going for their their grants dow here soon and they are at 400 million and it's a six the
size i want to say so i mean that's kind of in line with other networks and what they're spending
at least other cosmos based networks the the request of the salaries i think is is is quite high
but other than that like we're being critical but it's not it's not unreasonable or if you
didn't feel like a terra terra before they stuff happened to them uh they want to put i think it
was 100 million that they are going to try and put towards grants 100 million and they were they were
granted granted above above what adam is right now but not enough to justify a 10x difference so
there's there's i mean there's some comments in the chat about a variety of subjects related to
this like uh you know legal structure ridiculous incorporate down the martial islands i would say
the like we're not experts this is not legal advice we don't give financial advice we don't
give legal advice but we do have legal and financial opinions on this podcast um don't
forget to like and subscribe and join our patreon to get exclusive access to the game of nodes discord
including merch and t-shirts you're gonna get used only to get a bit more because we don't have a
we don't have a game of nodes discord or a patreon only game of nodes merch is exclusively
available to subscribers and our youtube membership um and you should get your orders in the next two
weeks so that they arrive before christmas anyway um on the subject of legal advice the general tone
of everything i've ever been told is that uh whatever you whatever and wherever you incorporate
the fact the the jurisdiction that you live in and you put your feet on that soil
is where you are going to go to prison if you fuck up badly enough so um i don't know why they
picked the uk for the trusty stuff i don't know how many people in a a doubt have any relationship
with the uk i it that's super weird but i guess at least one person must have done because they've
gone well fuck it i'm going to prison here if i fuck up so may as well incorporate some of the
legal structure here um i don't know also the city of london's really good for money laundering
historically so maybe that's the other reason um not that a a dow is about money laundering
just want to make that clear that that was a joke about money laundering and criminality anyway cool
sorry keep talking i'm just sitting here reading the comments i like the one by uh jake so jake
says for the for the listeners uh hot take a a dow has been more effective than a i b and the icf
how much money do those organizations spend on stuff uh admin and stuff quite a bit yeah
i should really go look at the icf uh grant cycle i'm really curious about it they get so much
heat that i i just i want to know more i feel like me not knowing is a disservice to my constituents
because as a my constituents i have to be constituent you're the mayor of fucking 11 to 10
that's right baby i hope it comes with a real fucking kickass hat like um sadly none of my
comedic hats are available within easy reach um somewhere in this room this very very messy
office there is a sombrero um which i don't know is can you get counsel for in sombrero these days
possibly uh there's also a pith hat like from the film zulu there's one of those um but i don't see
it around so um on the news on the news a football the on the news items i noticed okay now everybody's
got a cool hat apart from me um it's fine i'm not a hat guy i can live with it so um i don't even
have rhinos i don't even have rhinos baseball cap i have only my own baseball cap which is a bit lame
uh to i absolutely lost my rhino cap i have no idea what happened to it um so the the the one
that popped into the the spreadsheet that really threw me was uh the us regulators are coming
for kryptonite operators right which i swear wasn't in there at the beginning of the episode has
you know appeared at some point oh hey none's got a hat too this might be the biggest hat i've ever
put on my head it's a big hat that is adjustable i have a very big head though so that's why i think
i had to buy you know big big hats and want to for them to even reasonably for those listening
everybody's wearing hats all the null stuff take his off so um the uh the us regulators are coming
for kryptonite operators point is um mostly about the the us uh dollars um anti money laundering stuff
so like the o-fac and everything that's come off of the back of the tornado cash thing i don't
actually understand i don't understand enough to understand fully where this has come from i guess
this is this is like a working document um from who uh but so there's a legislative proposal
for a new type of sanction which applies to stablecoins trading in us dollars i think is my
understanding of this news item that rama has hopefully thrown in at some point um and the
the specific wording i think at the end of one of the the bits of of background fluff is um
uh essentially people can say are we just run stuff we we don't run it we don't know what it is
smart contracts yada yada yada um to resolve this issue um legislation could explicitly
authorize o-fac to designate particular blockchain nodes or networks rather than requiring they be
a designated person's property or interest in property so my my my take my take away from that
is rather than having a block list you could effectively um pursue node operators specifically
or entire networks um which you know is just back to the thing of like you know if you have a publicly
auditable blockchain your funds are not fungible um in the long run because if you don't have privacy
uh spend you don't you don't have shit ready do you um but apparently we'll we'll all the u.s
node operators are in trouble when they finally decide what to do about this and pass legislation
and then decide how they're going to actually chase down node operators which is probably
about half past never i would guess yeah means no trouble at all means we're doing good
shortly looks really worried very worried very worried this is definitely going to be affecting
us within the the next quarter we're going to have to bring on board another 29 staff mostly
in marketing and legal affairs to to to head this off at the pass right yes my panties are
officially in a bunch i knew they would be um i mean this is going to look really really fucking
funny uh while wearing his privacy-coated hat happy days um yeah this is going to look really
really funny when it turns out they do move really really quickly and then we're all we're all out
business in about six months time