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ending. But here we go. I found it now.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent

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Validator teams.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to Game of Nodes, the Validator

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podcast. This week, we're abandoned by the rest of the

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crew. Shilty, Frey and Uncle Dad won't be joining us. They're

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all partying or preparing for partying, apparently. However,

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the day has been saved by Rama and Bendy, both putting up their

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hands and saying, fuck it, the show must go on, sub me and coach.

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So here they are. Welcome, guys. And thanks for coming on to save

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the stream. And thanks for ruining my morning. I had deleted

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the stream schedule and gone on to do other work. But now,

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I postponed that to run back for all the fans. Thank you two

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guys for joining in the comments, Lil D. So we could

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like the one or two viewers that watch religiously every

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single week. I think it would be unfair. They wouldn't have

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anything to do for their hour and a half. Well, to be fair,

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they're now on the stream. So

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well, you're right. I wouldn't have had anything to do for an

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hour. Yeah. So this is this is my first week of unemployment at

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this time of night for a while. So this I can actually join the

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stream.

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Can you elaborate on the whole unemployment situation,

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Bendy?

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I mean, like I said, unemployment, I have a full time job, I'm

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employed, but I have left the, well, no, actually, I haven't

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because it doesn't exist in certain sort of, so I used to

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work for Atomic Delirator now. And I was part time there. They've

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come to the end of the nine month mandate. And I have decided

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not to continue that. They will be definitely looking for a

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second term. And to be honest, trying to do two, you know, a

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full time job and a part time crypto job that was becoming

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increasingly full time wasn't great for my work life balance.

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Because it was just turning into a sort of work work balance.

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So yeah, I think, and look, they were very good. And they tried

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to do some, I know they tried to accommodate me and my lack of

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time. But then I was like, well, to be honest, if I'm doing

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that, a, it might not be fun for me and be probably isn't the

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value for the community. So now I can just ship post on Twitter

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and enjoy trying to find air drops. Because I think that's a

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way to make it.

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Look, all anyone really wants to do in crypto is mine air drops

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and shitpost on Twitter. So, you know, in that respect, I think

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you've made the right choice.

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Yeah, why do I want to think productive, right?

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You're missing one. You have to join a cult.

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If you if you try to do anything productive, then

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inevitably people are gonna take issue with the things that

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you've done. So, you know, and then shitpost about you and

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then they're having all the funds. So yeah, flip the script,

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quit the job, shitpost everyone else.

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I mean, like one of the first things I did was I took up took

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on a bet with polkajew intern, which is definitely a mistake on

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my part.

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Yeah, well, what was the bet?

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So he posted that he would bet anyone that noble would not

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become an ICS chain. And we have now bet a hundred atom on

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whether it will or won't before the end of next year.

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So which side of that bet do you have?

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I'm saying it will be an ICS chain. And he's yeah, well, and he

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wrote a very long and detailed explanation for lots of good

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reasons why it won't be. And I went and you just had, oh,

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Jelena loves Adam.

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Pretty much. And also like, you know,

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Yelena. Yeah, I'd say Jelena, because I know if she was to

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ever watch, she would get really upset that I said, let's let's

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let's say Yelena is not watching this fucking show. Probably

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got much better shit to do.

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I mean, the only thing better than yeah, being on the show is

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watching it and, you know, heck, going from the comments. Yeah,

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but yeah, my rationale was, they said they're going to assume

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that therefore, circle kind of signed off on this and I'm signing

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off on it's probably more effort than migrating to ICS.

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Like they can unsign off your access to your ward anytime I

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highly doubt like just not moving is an issue.

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Little step. Maybe.

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I just love that Cosmos is like, we went, oh, you know, we can't

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have a terror lunar, but let's let the government in. Like, hey,

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let's make our primary back token something that's centrally

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controlled and overly regulated. Like that's not going to be an

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issue in like a year's time after what's happened in the last

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few days has been really adopted to like quickly 20 mil so far.

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Right. And it's like it's being pushed down everyone's

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throats. Like, hey, let's use, you know, this natively issued

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centralized currency that is going to apply to every single

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regulation that the US puts in. And if you touch it, they will

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blacklist your wallet whenever they want. And we think that's

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not going to be an issue. Come on, guys.

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So I guess we already were really using it though, right? And

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like there is that for any, any alternative like we're already

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using USDC axel or USDT, which is now carver anyway. So I mean,

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but you need a safe haven and they're like the really only

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ones that you can

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extra through.

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Well, it's more like that, you know, you can have decentralized

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finance, right? Like you can have alternate stablecoins. None of

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them will allow you to like exit through into a bank. Like so it's

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it's okay if you happen to keep your currency in crypto. But if

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you want to go into your bank account, you have to go through

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circle. If they're one of the only issues that will let you take

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money out that you can reliably back. So I get that.

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I never felt comfortable with the the Terra stablecoin USD. But I

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kind of do feel comfortable even though it's a centralized

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to shit USDC and USDT like it depends on what kind of level

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of crypto maxi you are, I suppose. The concern is more like

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after you know, we'll talk about CZ later, but like they're not

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going to stop at central exchanges. Like the next 12 to 18

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months will be they will be coming down hard on decentralized

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finance and dexers and any team that runs it and any currency

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that is run on it will be next target. I can guarantee you,

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they're not going to stop at centralized exchanges. If you are

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a dex team and you're based in America, you're next. They made

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that very clear in their announcement and they'll do that

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for all three. They're all based in Panama, bro. They're all

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based in Panama.

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It's more than islands.

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For sure. It's based in America.

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Well, the devs are there. I don't know.

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They're not going to come after like that. They're not going to

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come after osmosis. They're going to come after the devs that

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built osmosis that are based in America. And like, if you're

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not on this, right?

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If you're not, if you're not on a non and they know that you're a US

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citizen, doesn't really matter where the company is registered,

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I don't believe. I mean, like my view is I really don't care

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too much about centralized stablecoins in the sense that

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pretty much if the government hates crypto, I won't be able to

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get any of my money back into a bank account that I can use.

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Like if in the UK, if they do that, they can draw up all the

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fiat on ramps and off ramps and I won't be, I'll be screwed.

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So I kind of, the thing for me is that I sort of assume that

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the government will do whatever it wants to do and it won't

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really matter whether that's on chain or off chain and that

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ultimately crypto will need to interface with centralized things

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like governments and need to be able to be compliant.

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And I think that that's where someone like we're jumping ahead

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to CZ but like that's where Coinbase, I think are basically

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right where they are trying to be compliant and they're trying

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to be law abiding as much as anyone can tell in that kind

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of regulatory environment. How that relates to the kind of

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wild west of what happens on chain where things are

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decentralized, like there's no bloody case law, nobody knows.

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I've got no idea if what I'm doing is correct or not.

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All I know is that if I pay my taxes, I probably won't go to prison.

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That's kind of our philosophy. We just pay as much tax as we get

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and hopefully they leave us alone.

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I actually reviewed the Australian crypto regulations and laws

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and a lot of it doesn't apply to like businesses that aren't

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offering solutions or like ICOs. It's like if you're a business

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or an entity pay your tax and you can do whatever you want.

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It's like the Australian or currently like unless you're

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like offering, unless you're like offering a centralized

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exchange or an ICO type solution, then there's additional

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regulations that if you're just a business that's like mining

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or validating or that sort of stuff or doing solutions, it's

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basically like do it, report it, do whatever you want.

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I was like, I'll just check. I was like, oh, you know,

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bitch shit posting a lot. Are there any marketing regulations

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in Australia about crypto? And there's not. It's like, just

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pay your tax, bitch, and continue. You're fine.

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You're fine. Well, there are still things that would kind of

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apply to shit posting and marketing in that if you, and

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it's the same as it states, if you buy up a heap of something

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and then promote the shit out of it and then dump it, that's

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inside a trading still. So deceptive marketing is like what

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I read. So it's like the only thing that I could read.

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Yeah, they don't take kindly to people who do insider trading

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here.

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Right, Zach.

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Yeah, what's the other one?

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If you go to like $5 or it could go to negative $5.

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Bullsack?

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Bullsack.

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Yeah, not second.

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Yeah, like telling people when you buy something and that

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you bought it here and that it's a good product is not

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inside a trading. I'm publicly telling them it's not like I

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bought it, sat on it for six months and then went come and

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buy this thing and now pump my bags.

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So if you tell them like do you tell them the price that you

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bought it at and then do you tell them when you dump it or?

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Do I have to?

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I don't know.

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No.

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I'm not a marketer.

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It's like I have the laws.

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Because the name is nutsack and it's hilarious.

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I think there's also a thing right which is like so it's not

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quite crypto low but in the UK there are things around

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reviews. So if you review a product and you are associated

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with it then your review is technically in breach of the

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rules even if you are genuinely revealing it.

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So when I worked for a marketing agency we couldn't put

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reviews on pages of shows that we've been to see or anything

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like that because we were connected to it and that's

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considered to be deceptive even if you gave it a ship review

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and invaded it from the start.

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You're shorting it.

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So that's.

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Yeah, it doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter.

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You just can't touch it.

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I'm going to have to go and answer the door.

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So this is what happens when we jump in on the slide.

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I'll be back in a minute.

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I'm leaving it to two Australians to run the show.

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Okay.

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Now fuck, look at.

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What else is being going on this week, Rama?

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We've got, I see you've populated some items in the

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spreadsheet. I notice you're not in the spreadsheet.

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Weirdly though, the fray has just appeared in the

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spreadsheet.

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So that is.

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Oh, okay.

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Getting in on the show while he's at a party, huh?

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Well, yeah, he's at a gig.

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I don't know what gig he's at, but he's at a gig.

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His way can't be on the premises.

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So yeah.

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And Uncle Dad has taken the family on a trip.

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So they're out enjoying themselves as well.

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And Shiltsie is preparing for a party.

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There is Thanksgiving coming up soon in America.

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Yeah.

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When's that scheduled?

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No, my problem is the American thing.

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Yeah.

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It's within the next week.

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I know a few people have been putting Turkey Movies here

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and there.

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All right, cool.

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Turkey Death Day.

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Yeah, Turkey Death Day.

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I thought Shiltsie wasn't here because he's on strike.

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He's on strike?

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Yeah.

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Well, he's on Relang Strike, right?

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Yeah.

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First one.

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So you meant?

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Yep.

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00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:49,280
Yep.

244
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:50,640
Yeah.

245
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:51,040
Okay.

246
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,040
Well, let's dive a little bit further into that.

247
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,320
So my understanding of this whole situation is,

248
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,320
and it's not just 11 to 5, and they're not quitting Relang.

249
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:03,920
Or not.

250
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:04,720
That's just quitting.

251
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:05,360
I said strike.

252
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:06,720
Yeah.

253
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,680
So he's in the comments.

254
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:09,920
Hi.

255
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,320
It seems like probably the higher than usual

256
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,080
live view account today is probably because the regular attendees

257
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,520
are probably watching it, even though they said they're doing something else.

258
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,240
So on the bench while you're stuffing the Turkey up the arse.

259
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:29,040
Right, gotcha.

260
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,160
So the recent Cosmos prop, what is it, 848 or 843 or something like that?

261
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,320
It's like, yeah, it's one of the earlier ones, 848s.

262
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:44,080
The, you know, oh, let's change a parameter from 0.01 to 0.005

263
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,000
because everyone gets a shit about that, don't they?

264
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:53,360
So 847 something, which is the reduction in inflation on the inflation one.

265
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:53,680
What is it?

266
00:13:53,680 --> 00:14:03,360
What we're talking about is proposed by Notional to increase the global fee

267
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:04,400
minimum gas price.

268
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:07,360
So there's two.

269
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:15,680
There's a reduction in inflation plus a increase in gas pricing.

270
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:16,960
There's more.

271
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:24,240
So update global fee params to clear the minimum fee message types to avoid peer to

272
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,240
peer spams described in an issue.

273
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:33,520
So the hub step back, the hub is like quite poorly configured in terms of,

274
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,880
Erdeman, hello, is quite poorly configured.

275
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:38,960
Just to interrupt Rama.

276
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:45,040
So for those who don't know Ertaman, who has just joined for those listening,

277
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,920
Ertaman, he is part of the crew at 11 to 5 sent in here to defend themselves.

278
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,440
Probably I'm assuming.

279
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,760
Yeah, I was just saying, it's right.

280
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,720
Thrown into the gauntlet by the, by the boss man.

281
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,480
It's so sorry.

282
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,160
Yeah, please continue, Rama.

283
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:00,640
Yeah.

284
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,760
So the hub is like quite poorly configured, right?

285
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,160
There's a thing called like the global fee module.

286
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:14,160
And essentially when it was introduced, they said that everything except for maybe

287
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,280
one message type can have zero gas.

288
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:22,160
And what that does is open up the hub to like multiple attack vectors via spam and peer to

289
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,280
peer kind of dosing.

290
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,280
So to remediate that, three proposals were put up.

291
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:34,880
The first one was to like clear out the bypass minimum fee types to make it so there were

292
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,880
no, no message types would be free.

293
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:46,880
The next one was to update the minimum gas price to 0.005 atoms, which I believe that

294
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,880
one's the issue.

295
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:56,880
And then the third one was to change the block size from 200 kilobytes to two meg.

296
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:02,560
And these three proposals were intended to reduce the attack vectors on the hub based

297
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,560
on kind of spam transactions.

298
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:12,240
The unintended impact of this or unintended, the impact of this is the hub does thousands

299
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:20,560
of transactions a day because of ICS and routing between various chains that relays went from

300
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:27,120
paying, I think it was like 0.0002, maybe three atom per transaction to like a 10x or

301
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,120
more increase to 005 atom.

302
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,600
So, you know, your average relay was probably paying five to seven atom a day.

303
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,600
Now they're paying 50.

304
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,080
So like a substantial increase in price and commissions can't cover that.

305
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,960
Profits on the hub don't come anywhere near covering that.

306
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,160
And no one thought to like put in a plan to like maybe create a doubt to fund relays due

307
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,160
to this increased cost.

308
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,240
And the relays just had to bear the brunt of it in the short term.

309
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,560
And for a lot of the teams, like that meant scaling back the amount of transactions they

310
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,600
relay, you know, let some of the bigger relays who have more funding kind of bear the brunt

311
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,000
until other solutions can come in, which, you know, minimum they're going to take two to

312
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,000
three weeks, right?

313
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,640
Because you have to put a prop up on the forum.

314
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:11,640
It has to pass.

315
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:12,640
People have to get funded.

316
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,400
AADOW doesn't exist.

317
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,560
So, you know, I think the last time I saw it, there was like thousands of transactions

318
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:24,000
that were pending for ICS because no one was like willing to relay them, which is not good.

319
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,680
Like you need the transactions to be relayed for ICS.

320
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,360
So yeah, that's like the summary of it.

321
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,760
I just like tongue in cheek of, you know, short see goes on strike because I thought

322
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,240
he would be on the show and it'd be funny for him to come in and have to defend himself.

323
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:43,120
But we've got Erdeman here instead to try and, you know, protect the business.

324
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,320
So Erdeman, please chime in.

325
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,800
Tell us why I'm wrong and why Lavender 5 is the greatest validating and relaying business

326
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,280
known to man.

327
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,080
And you're not actually going on strike.

328
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,800
You're actually doubling down.

329
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,840
You are going to take over the number one relaying spot of the hub just out of pride

330
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:00,840
alone.

331
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,640
Yeah, we're on strike forever, probably.

332
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:09,800
No, I don't think we'll ever take number one spots, basically.

333
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,800
I don't think it makes sense to do, to be honest.

334
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:19,080
No, we've been sort of focusing or like doubling down on networks and channels that don't have

335
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,520
enough support, sort of like relaying the most obscure channels known to man because

336
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,640
we can bear the infrastructure costs.

337
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,440
Means you do less transactions, but at least the random users on these channels that are

338
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,720
actually very dedicated to either those networks or to using those funds in that specific route

339
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,720
are not stuck.

340
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:45,920
So it's like more support costs and like hours for random people coming into your Discord

341
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,120
or Telegram DM saying, hey, my funds are stuck.

342
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:56,120
Please help me and less like optimizing your configuration to relay like 100,000 of packets

343
00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:00,360
between Cosmos Hub and Osmosis or ICS chains.

344
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:05,840
But yeah, I just checked the balance sheet on that SmartStake dashboard, which it has

345
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,240
a lot of shitty data, but it also has like some good data.

346
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,320
At least it's helpful in many ways because you can quickly check who is like operating

347
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,400
specific channels at least to a certain degree.

348
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:25,440
And besides like Pocachu, who for some reason has 180 atom in his wallet and crypto crew

349
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:31,000
who gets paid, it seems like basically everybody shut off their relay or like almost everybody

350
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:36,080
has like a few atom in there, probably just like flush some channels and then fuck off

351
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,080
again.

352
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:43,280
But at least like Crohn's Nest, I heard stop the relay or we like let our wallet run out.

353
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,920
Basically I probably fund it back up again today or tomorrow for doing some items.

354
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,600
Cosmos Spaces is out, who is one of the biggest relayers.

355
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:58,680
ICS Hero is out, who is normally transferring 150,000 packets a month on Cosmos.

356
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,920
He's like the biggest hub relayer besides Crypto Crew who has like a grant.

357
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:10,120
So yeah, but anyway, we're all chatting in back channels and like creating our coop

358
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:19,840
are really proper cartel, stop IBC and then the cartel can really play.

359
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,040
Actually having a cartel would probably be quite good for performance.

360
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:29,440
I mean, if it actually was a cartel, things would be a lot better.

361
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:36,600
You know, a benevolent cartel is what we need or a cult depending on you know, I think

362
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,680
cartels won't make you rich, cults will make you rich.

363
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,360
I think you know, cults will make you pretty rich and it will make you like, oh, like

364
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:48,760
I'm happy but a cult, you know, that's fucking money, you know.

365
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,880
Hey guys, I just need to drop out here for a second and come back.

366
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,040
Hopefully that doesn't mean that this stream ends.

367
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,120
Don't need to announce your exit mate, we're fine here.

368
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,120
Thank you.

369
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,600
If it does, it's the shortest appearance of any guest ever.

370
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,800
Well, at least they let you speak, I mean, well, we let you speak.

371
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:15,040
I mean, normally the standoff is on the background just waiting for like 40 minutes.

372
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:24,280
Actually, if you're there listening, can you just jump into the stream for a second so

373
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,040
I can leave and come back and hopefully it won't disconnect everyone.

374
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,680
You don't have to go up live, just get in the waiting room so I can leave.

375
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:37,400
I think what the relayers should do is they should petition Notional because Notional

376
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:43,160
did this without any consultation with the relays and the impact and the intended costs.

377
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:48,920
They should petition Notional to fund your relaying services for the period of time until

378
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:56,240
you get your proposal up to fund you a million dollars a year to relay for the hub as a collective.

379
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,720
The other side of it is of course, Notional is being paid by the hub.

380
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:00,720
They should be relaying.

381
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:01,720
Yeah, they're relayers.

382
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:02,720
They're going to be relaying.

383
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,360
You know, they're busy doing other things, working on other projects.

384
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:09,360
Some chains need linting.

385
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,240
You can say things now, Nae Nae Dao.

386
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,240
Wow.

387
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,240
Okay.

388
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,920
Yeah, I mean, the punches are, I can stop pulling now that I'm not actually connected to anything

389
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,560
and can just say what I think.

390
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,680
So basically, I think this whole thing is really shit.

391
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:30,080
I think that it is shocking the way the whole security risk to the hub has been handled.

392
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:36,160
I think Notional have been typically awful in their approach to handling it too.

393
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:42,440
And they're kind of overly aggressive approach to fixing stuff has obviously broken something

394
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,680
to a much worse degree.

395
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,760
And the collateral damage is just terrible.

396
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:54,560
The idea that consumer chains and ICS just break under there, like is just shocking.

397
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,320
The fact that nobody thought this through from any team.

398
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,320
So I include here informal.

399
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:04,360
Everyone who voted yes on this proposal, which I guess includes the relays that are now crying

400
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:09,360
about this, everyone's done a bad job and everyone should be upset and ashamed of themselves

401
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,920
because it is a complete fuck up.

402
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,400
I will push back here just a little bit.

403
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,800
There needed to be something that caused everyone.

404
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,200
He's been having this all week with his headset.

405
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,200
It's been expensive.

406
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,200
I love it.

407
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:23,200
I love it.

408
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,320
He comes in, he's got like his really punchy point to make.

409
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,320
He's like, I agree, but and then.

410
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,120
So I'm going to guess that he's going to say that it needed a moment like this to make

411
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:38,320
everyone realize how fucked up the whole situation was with relays and their costs.

412
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,960
And this is ultimately going to be a good thing because it's going to mean we fix a

413
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,600
problem that we've been kind of getting away with for a while.

414
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,600
And I do agree with that.

415
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,760
But I also think that unless we fundamentally fix the way that these kind of approaches

416
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,840
are done and the kind of approach to decentralized sort of upgrades on the hub and kind of making

417
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,440
it work properly, it's shocking the amateur.

418
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,200
And that needs to not, it can't happen like that.

419
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,320
I absolutely agree with that, that it's totally amateur for sure.

420
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,320
But yeah, collective bargaining needed to happen.

421
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,600
And the only way we can make it happen is by kind of forcing everyone's hand, right?

422
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:13,600
Yeah.

423
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:19,440
And I think that we are just quickly, I totally understand.

424
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,360
I understand relaying like I've known like how, you know, who pays for it and how it

425
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,000
works for a while now.

426
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:31,040
I think what, you know, let's get to the root of this is fundamentally the people that

427
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:37,320
build and manage IBC have dropped the ball on this for what, like two, three years now.

428
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,200
Like let's introduce Packet Forward Middleware and these other IBC features that the devs

429
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:47,280
want to build rather than focusing on the thing that should be built, which is self-relaying.

430
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Right?

431
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:55,240
And why are relayers and like validators who are relaying and controlling the channels

432
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,360
responsible for paying the ship that is a service that users use, right?

433
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:06,560
Every single chain pays some relayer thousands of dollars every single month to manage like

434
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:07,920
a relaying channel.

435
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,720
Like Osmosis does it, Cosmos Hub does it.

436
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,200
I'm sure like, you know, Kajira through the Senate and all that.

437
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,000
So someone's paying for these relayers to be open and for the transactions to occur.

438
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,000
Users aren't paying it.

439
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,000
No chance.

440
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,840
Like they're paying it out of their token value.

441
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:22,840
No doubt.

442
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:28,040
Like why isn't the number one priority taking this service away from centralized hands in

443
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,080
validators and putting it in wallets and UIs that users can relay their own packets and

444
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,480
pay their own transaction fees?

445
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,840
That should be the number one thing to make IBC actually decentralized and a service that

446
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,880
is actually a public good rather than a service that's managed by individuals at their own

447
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:51,640
cost and expense and like something that's critical to the entire existence of IBC reliant

448
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,320
upon individuals paying for it.

449
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,320
Like out of their pocket.

450
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,320
It's dumb.

451
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,440
Like it just shows like how Cosmos has a development organization and entity and not just the hub

452
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,440
like a whole thing.

453
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,480
It's just like so backwards in their approach to let's bring in all these features instead

454
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,360
of fixing the fundamental core thing that is if I want to relay a packet, I could I

455
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,840
should be able to do that in my wallet.

456
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,320
And like apparently we're supposed to have this functionality like years ago, but it's

457
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,560
just fundamentally broken the thing that they built.

458
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,360
You can't upgrade IBC channels like it doesn't work from what I hear.

459
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,680
But let's move forward and build this other shit instead of fixing something that you

460
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,760
know is core to the infrastructure that we use every single day.

461
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,160
I think that's a pretty hard take and I don't know what I necessarily agree.

462
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,440
I agree that a lot of that function need to be there.

463
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,560
I don't agree that the team is distracted with other things.

464
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,920
I think there's there's so much push for like for relayers wanting to be able to use

465
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,640
it as a profitable business venture that it would just be a low priority to use it as

466
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,640
a wallet.

467
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,720
That's what I've heard many times from from several different teams is that that's the

468
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:57,720
goal.

469
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:58,720
Right.

470
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,120
And so like I see what you're saying and that it should be a wall should should relay

471
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:02,480
for itself.

472
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,040
But if there's a lot of pressure.

473
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,080
Yeah, I get what you're saying right.

474
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,880
Like IBC as a protocol should not be pressured by teams who want to make money.

475
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,880
Like that is so fucking dumb.

476
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,120
Like I'm a relaying service provider.

477
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,560
I get paid thousands of tens of thousands of dollars a month for providing relaying services

478
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,640
for a handful of chance.

479
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,120
I'm pressuring the IBC team to not implement features because I want to line my pockets.

480
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:26,920
What the fuck are we doing?

481
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,720
I just think you know what he gets paid that amount.

482
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,720
If they do.

483
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,720
Yeah, they do.

484
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,720
They must.

485
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,240
I know teams that get paid tens of thousands of dollars a month to really have a very nice

486
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,240
agreement.

487
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,320
But I wouldn't say that standard.

488
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,320
Like maybe.

489
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:41,320
I don't know.

490
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,320
Appliers for sure.

491
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,320
Right.

492
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,840
But I think it's a service, right?

493
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:45,840
And I get it.

494
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,120
But it's a service that's not needed if the tech was built, how it should be built.

495
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,760
It sort of doesn't matter whether someone's doing this and being paid a lot of money and

496
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,000
making a profit or whether someone's doing this and making a big loss on it and that's

497
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,120
enhancing their validated reputation and therefore they get delegations and whatever.

498
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:08,280
And you know, the fundamental thing is that this is core to making our techs at work.

499
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:15,920
And there is no obvious sustainable route for it to be there other than altruism from

500
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,920
someone.

501
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,920
Someone should, someone is paying who isn't the person using that service.

502
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,000
And we haven't figured out a way to make that work.

503
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,640
And then we have, I've forgotten the exact prop number, but obviously the hub passed

504
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,120
a prop ages ago.

505
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:36,920
So it'll be in sub 100 prop on being a melting hub, right?

506
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,480
And I know, that's my dear close to your heart as well.

507
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,680
And you've tried to get some energy behind it.

508
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:48,880
But like, actually, that kind of thing is where once you have 1000 IBC chains with,

509
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,360
you know, you're not going to like the thing that Erdemen was talking about, like, you

510
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,320
know, Erdemen was talking about connecting unusual chains to each other, right?

511
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,720
Because someone wants to move some lump to Desmos or something, you know, like, like

512
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,560
take two ghost chains and move some tokens between them, right?

513
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,120
So there is no reason for that for a relay to exist there.

514
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,320
We can route that and just, that can be okay.

515
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,080
And there's lots of this kind of stuff and it would make the thing more efficient, but

516
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,080
fundamentally there needs to be a business model underneath it that makes it sustainable

517
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,200
so that someone is, it's built in or you're paying it out, you know, it's paid out of

518
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,840
taxation or it's paid from your TXV or whatever it is, but it needs to be sustainable.

519
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,840
And then it becomes a market where relays compete and the person who can optimize the

520
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,280
best and do it, you know, for the cheapest is going to make the much money or whatever

521
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,360
it is, right?

522
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,400
Like that's how IBC can scale.

523
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:48,240
But what we have at the moment is some sort of weird mix of like subsidy from foundations,

524
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:54,120
subsidy from, let's say, in pockets and kind of marketing costs or genuine altruism because

525
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,080
they believe in IBC.

526
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,520
Because that's what a lot of people did in the early days, right?

527
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,760
Like it's not, it's not a good place to be in.

528
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,000
Yeah, so I'm not sure what solutions seem like just to kind of...

529
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Oh, no, I've got no idea of the solution.

530
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,200
I'm just saying the peculiar news article.

531
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,720
The minimum fee is now like across the board.

532
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:19,040
So to do a transaction on the hub, you've got to pay a minimum of 0.05 Adam regardless

533
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,040
of the transaction type, which is great because it addresses, you know, to an extent, you

534
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,320
know, your pockets now have to be, you know, 10 times bigger to attack the hub, which is

535
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,320
good.

536
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:35,160
But in terms of the relays outside of like large delegations from ICF or, you know, direct

537
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,680
funding from the community pool for the relays, there's no real solution for this.

538
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,200
And you know, then you get into like collective bargaining, you know, if someone's providing

539
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,760
the relaying service, but not part of that group, how do they get paid?

540
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,760
Who gets paid how much?

541
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,960
You know, is there now competition because, you know, someone's relaying more transactions

542
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,360
than the other so they should get paid more, etc.

543
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:55,360
Right?

544
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,280
You just kind of get into that kettle of fish and it's all great until someone's

545
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,320
else is making potentially more money than the other person and then whatever.

546
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:09,520
But again, kind of comes back to relays shouldn't be so reliant for the service to work.

547
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:14,000
Like if relays actually went on strike, which I think would be quite hilarious, watch how

548
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,560
quickly people jump up and down to like get that service fixed.

549
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:23,240
Well, when when conflict threatened to go on strike, I don't think they ever actually

550
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,240
went on strike.

551
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,600
They got paid pretty quick and they got paid by the hub that isn't even a direct beneficiary

552
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:36,640
of Cosmos and directly relaying the hub, the hub massively benefits from IBC as does every

553
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:37,640
chain.

554
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,680
Like the whole the whole reason that we're all in Cosmos, I imagine is IBC and I know

555
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,640
that I checked, you know, this show is talked about IBC is the only thing in Cosmos that

556
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,440
you can pretty much bet on, except that you can't because there's no way to monetize it.

557
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,080
So it's interesting thought that I just had and you know, always, you know, looking on

558
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,840
the positive side of things like I do, relays go on strike, all of them.

559
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,160
ICS packets aren't relayed.

560
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,880
You would get splashing events on consumer chains because the only way that they do IBC

561
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,160
like how you do uptime for the consumer chains in the hub is via IBC.

562
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,360
And if you don't receive those packets in time, it would determine that that's a you

563
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,360
have a need to go for it.

564
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,560
So you'd still need a governance proposal to pass to slash them.

565
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,560
Yeah, that's that's fine.

566
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:28,360
No, we've not decided because we haven't bargaining because we haven't got to the point where

567
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,040
that becomes automated yet, but we will get there.

568
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,040
So there's a link.

569
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,960
So for the collective bargaining people, there is a limited window where you can do this

570
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,640
without getting slash yourself.

571
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:43,280
Wait, wait, it requires I didn't realize that it requires IBC in order to run providers.

572
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,280
All that's communicated to IBC.

573
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:51,080
The entire way that ICS works is you your your client update, IBC transactions determines

574
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,760
your uptime on the consumer and provider chain.

575
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,440
So if that packet's not relayed, then I don't know fundamentally like if there was a delay

576
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,400
in IBC, would it just relay the transactions and then determine that you had uptime?

577
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,960
But that's how it works is every block it sends like every block there's a transaction

578
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:15,480
in there for provider consumer update, and it has like the corresponding block height

579
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,040
to say that you've got uptime on the consumer chain.

580
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:23,560
I think you might be saying the quiet part out loud about the real costs of ICS.

581
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:30,680
It isn't about running one additional shitty node under your desk so that you can have

582
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,720
neutron there is the relays yet again, who are getting screwed and nobody's talking about

583
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:36,720
it.

584
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:37,720
Yeah, I didn't realize that.

585
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,000
I think that kind of really twists the knife in a bit.

586
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,400
Yeah, so and they were free before.

587
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,400
So you could do you could IBC transfer those consumer provider updates with zero gas because

588
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,080
they were as part of the exceptions.

589
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:58,240
The fundamental issue is that everything except for like maybe one or two transactions was

590
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,160
set in the bypass.

591
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,920
So when they configured it was just like everything but this is bypassed.

592
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:12,000
Now that that list has been cleared everything has a cost rather than IBC client updates

593
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,040
or you know, whatever they are provider consumer client updates being free.

594
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,360
And the reason for that is like even those are an attack vector.

595
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:25,400
So if a particular validator wanted to go rogue, they could spam client updates and take

596
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,400
down the network.

597
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,240
So had to introduce a fee there, but you know, is the fee too high for people who have supposedly

598
00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:34,400
trusted and have their reputation and atoms on the line?

599
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,680
I think the other thing that's interesting here is whether you do actually need to get

600
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,600
to the point where you just have permissioned IBC channels so that you actually have a permissioned

601
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,600
IBC channel to do that particular thing.

602
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,880
And you're saying, look, this is this is how it works.

603
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,360
And there is a cut as what you're kind of saying, Ram is obviously between slashing and social

604
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,360
consensus.

605
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,600
There is a sort of there's a sort of solution to the attack vector because one of the things

606
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,720
that I think people like to think of security in absolute terms things are secure or they're

607
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:04,600
not secure and actually it's very much a spectrum.

608
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,000
Attacks just get more expensive or they just require you to be more powerful.

609
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:14,840
And I think a lot of proof of stake is based around kind of economic game theory and it

610
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,760
kind of just ignores the social consensus side of it, which is ultimately probably more

611
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,800
powerful and then overlaps into legal in the real world, right?

612
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:29,320
And I think that, you know, actually thinking these things through pragmatically will let

613
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,840
us get to better solutions, we don't have to be perfect solutions.

614
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,360
And I think often one of the failings that we have is either things are not through

615
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,280
the walkthrough at all, and then they happen, or things are thought through quite a lot

616
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,280
and then people pick holes in them.

617
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,720
And then they don't happen.

618
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,520
And I would rather have the second where you have something with a few holes in it that's

619
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,160
been scrutinized somewhat and the risks are known and people can make an informed decision

620
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,360
as opposed to what we have at the moment, which is you throw something up, it sounds

621
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,560
common sense, everyone just fights for it.

622
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,320
All right, I think we covered that one off pretty well.

623
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:08,200
It sounds like IBC, the lifeblood, the core of Cosmos is not without its challenges too.

624
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,160
Schiltzee, how's the chicken stuffing going?

625
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,560
The rooster, the kettle, what do they call those fucking ducks?

626
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,560
Turkeys.

627
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:18,560
Turkey, yeah.

628
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,560
Yeah, how's the turkey stuffing going?

629
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,080
Did you shove a beer can up there?

630
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,000
So I'm not doing that part of the party prep.

631
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,640
I'm making other things like I'm a big fan of cookies, so I make a huge batch of cookies

632
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:32,640
for everyone.

633
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,240
Oh, I need to make good cookies too.

634
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,280
Did you have some of my cookies?

635
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,280
You did.

636
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,000
Yeah, so I'm making a lot of those cookies and it's not happening at my house, so like

637
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000
I have to prep for the travel bits and yeah.

638
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,480
Oh, I want to make hash cookies inside your own home so we can make it someone else's

639
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,480
house.

640
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,600
Yes, exactly.

641
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:58,280
When I visited Schiltzee, I was just handed with coffee and cookies the whole time and

642
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,280
jerky.

643
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:06,200
He lives just around the corner from a jerky factory, which is delightful.

644
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,600
A turkey's not a thing in Australia.

645
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,600
Sorry, I think I just did some kind of doxing.

646
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,600
Oops.

647
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,160
A turkey's not a thing in Australia, so I was just wondering why you didn't know the

648
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,160
name of the bird.

649
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,680
Look, they're not very common, like you certainly won't see one on the street.

650
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Really?

651
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,680
Yeah.

652
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,280
You don't see one on the street in the UK, but I still know what they call it.

653
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:34,400
You infrequently see one at a large wood or forestry type park.

654
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:39,080
There's one near me where there's a bunch of birds around and you can go and sit and you

655
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,000
will occasionally see a little turkey walking around with its little napsack on its chin.

656
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,200
But if you go into the bush, you're not just going to see a bunch of turkeys cruising around.

657
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,160
We don't go out there and don't have a turkey hanging over your shoulder walking home, ready

658
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,000
to stuff it and eat it.

659
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,920
Well, there are bush turkeys, though.

660
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:56,920
Those are weird looking.

661
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,920
They have a yellow scrotum around their neck.

662
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,520
Your shit just went off again.

663
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:03,520
All right.

664
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:04,520
Do we move on?

665
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaking of yellow scrotums, do we move on to CZ?

666
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,560
Okay.

667
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,920
Do you want to announce the news?

668
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:13,920
Yeah.

669
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,400
So our big boy, Four, steps down as the CEO after pleading guilty.

670
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,400
Hang on.

671
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,600
Why do you have Four in there?

672
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,600
I don't get that.

673
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:23,600
Is that some sort of joke?

674
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,600
Have you not seen all of the images of CZ?

675
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:27,600
Oh, right.

676
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:28,600
Because he does the thing.

677
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:29,600
He already tweets where he's like, Yeah.

678
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,600
Yeah.

679
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,600
Yeah.

680
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:32,600
Is that supposed to mean Four?

681
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,040
Well, I tweeted yesterday because I thought it was kind of funny.

682
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,400
Like he's always been talking about Four, right?

683
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,400
We've now had the Four.

684
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:44,400
We've had Dope One, Sam, Bankman, Fried, Suzu, and now CZ.

685
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,400
Four.

686
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,600
All of them go on a jail and hang out with each other.

687
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,160
All sued, all gone to jail, all took down their great products.

688
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,160
The Four's done.

689
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,160
That's it.

690
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,160
The bull market begins.

691
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,160
I wonder where that prison is.

692
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,160
Is that in the Caimans?

693
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,160
They're all indifferent.

694
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,080
Well, Dope One's in Montenegro or something where he tried to like use a fake passport.

695
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,320
So some of them are in prison at the moment, are they?

696
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,320
Do is.

697
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:07,320
Yep.

698
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,320
Do definitely is.

699
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,040
They're in prison, I think in Singapore, for memory.

700
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:17,600
Sam's been like house arrest inside a mansion somewhere.

701
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,000
One of them got out, right?

702
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,440
And then CZ's not going to prison.

703
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,800
CZ will go to prison just not for a while.

704
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:25,800
Yeah.

705
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,840
He paid a big fine and stepped down as CEO.

706
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,800
It's like a bargaining agreement with the government.

707
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,520
Yeah, but then wouldn't he, it wasn't that so he didn't go to prison?

708
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,280
Well, yeah, that's the agreement now until they find more charges that they can send

709
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,280
into prison for.

710
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,280
Well, it depends.

711
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,680
It depends on how much you think BlackRock are just, you know, clearing it, clearing

712
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,120
out the market so they can have their Bitcoin.

713
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:54,320
I reckon if that bird that was in with the bloody old mate, Cialty.

714
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,320
Caroline.

715
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,320
Caroline, yeah, she got off.

716
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,200
I reckon CZ can manage it.

717
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,200
Maybe.

718
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,200
Maybe.

719
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,200
They didn't seem to have anything.

720
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,720
It depends if he can implicate anyone like she got off because of the intel she's got.

721
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:13,240
So if CZ decides to throw Brian from Cornbase under the bus, I'm sure he'll get off.

722
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,000
I think they're like different scenarios though, right?

723
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,960
Like Doquan and your man fucking what's his name?

724
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,520
The funny looking one.

725
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,520
They like had.

726
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,520
Bankman fried.

727
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,560
Yeah, bankman fried.

728
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,320
They all had things that just felt like, you know, they were running Ponzi's basically

729
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,160
that collapsed.

730
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,760
Like Binance weren't really doing that.

731
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,360
The key here is that if so long as your Ponzi doesn't collapse, you're fine.

732
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,680
If your Ponzi collapses, Bernie made off, etc.

733
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:44,680
Then you're screwed.

734
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,680
Yeah, as long as USDT doesn't tank, it's all good.

735
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:54,520
I mean, that's the thing if Justin Tron goes to prison, then that's five and Rama's whole

736
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,520
joke is ruined.

737
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:56,520
Yeah, it's over.

738
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,520
Yeah, like back to the bear market we go.

739
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,160
So we've got one over between four and five.

740
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,160
That's it.

741
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,160
It's just protect our boy Justin.

742
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,160
All right.

743
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,920
All of our bags.

744
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,560
When did we exit the bear market Rama?

745
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,680
Oh, like two, three months ago.

746
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,680
No, we're still flatline.

747
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:17,680
We're not.

748
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,240
I think as soon as you started paying Rama, he exited the bear market.

749
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:24,520
Because of our riveting news.

750
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,520
Yeah.

751
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:26,520
Yeah.

752
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,120
That was the turning point.

753
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:29,120
You might be right.

754
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,200
You heard it here first folks.

755
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,560
We front run the bull market.

756
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:43,160
So I mean, like, you know, certainly I'm getting bull market vibes with the amount of airdrops

757
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,440
that have been thrown around in the last week.

758
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:54,120
Notably, Pith, some bull stack that I found in my wallet randomly.

759
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,120
What else was there?

760
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,120
There was another TIA.

761
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,120
Yeah.

762
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,040
So TIA was a big one as well.

763
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:08,280
And I, you know, back on relays, some of those relays did pretty darn well out of that TIA

764
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:13,920
airdrop reading some of the comments on Twitter and getting at my calculator, like to the

765
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,760
tune of two to 300,000 US dollars.

766
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,600
So I think like the TIA airdrop has been pretty good for those guys, you know, shooting

767
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:24,600
that.

768
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,240
Also, if you had a lot of commits on get on in the right get hubs, regardless of the quality

769
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:30,080
of those commits, you may have done quite well.

770
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,080
Oh yeah.

771
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,520
I'm going around doing, I'm doing linting, I'm doing spell checks.

772
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,240
Go more study everywhere.

773
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:41,360
But if you're doing that, right, I'm just doing it.

774
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,160
But if you're doing that, what's notional doing?

775
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:50,640
Front run the run run run just run around the the the get hubs and then find the the

776
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:58,400
go file and then just start adding point zero point zero point one to everything that you

777
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,400
see and then just try to build this.

778
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,600
If it builds, if it builds, then I can send it.

779
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:11,680
Yeah, start adding copy chat GPT, add comments for what this does, merge it on everything.

780
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,440
Like you need comments on your code boys.

781
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,360
You can't, you know, really, this is the real alpha for airdrop farming, right?

782
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:24,560
Is that as airdrocks, you can't you can't just stake out them anymore.

783
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,640
You have to you have to, you know, get in the get hub and really, really knuckle down.

784
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:35,320
Rama, I'm of the firm belief that commenting code is pandering to champs who can't code.

785
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,280
I think the fray would disagree with you, right?

786
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:43,280
He's talked a lot about his love of commenting and it's almost like his notes to himself,

787
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:44,280
right?

788
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:45,520
Well, he charges by the hour too.

789
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:50,520
Well, I wonder, he was either that he's on an hourly rate or he's a chump who can't

790
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:51,520
code.

791
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,520
It's one or the other, right?

792
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,040
Well, I mean, presumably you can understand your own code or is he like hammering the

793
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,880
chumps to to put in a comment so that he can understand their shit?

794
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,960
No, I think he's commenting on his own stuff so that he can understand it later.

795
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,760
But what I would say is how is still not working.

796
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,320
So, you know, probably a chump.

797
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:19,400
I mean, just commenting code that doesn't work with this doesn't work yet is like one

798
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,600
way of going about it, I suppose.

799
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:22,600
Yeah.

800
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:27,720
So, PIF, on PIF, like kind of crazy, huh?

801
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:34,000
Like it's just a useless oracle token launched at like five billion fully diluted value,

802
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,320
like not listed on any reasonably sized exchange and it is on Binance and goes up like 50%.

803
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,440
Oh, so it did get listed on Binance, did it?

804
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,520
Yeah, they're on Binance Curbs now.

805
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:50,760
Because I noticed it had gone up today in my little walleye here.

806
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,720
So yeah, I mean, did we even know this was coming?

807
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,760
It would have been nice to have known so I could have farmed it.

808
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:05,800
But luckily, I used that Lovanna on a couple of different wallets for various different

809
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:06,800
reasons.

810
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,920
And I got a couple of little airdrops from PIF, which was nice.

811
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:10,920
Yeah.

812
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,040
And Rama, I know you've been doing a bit of playing with the Lovanna as well, right?

813
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,960
Yeah, I got three wallets.

814
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,920
Just from trading on Lovanna, like I use like my public Commonwealth wallet that I always

815
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,720
like test and play around with.

816
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,400
I always like do that first because if there's ever anything like Dom or whatever, it just

817
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,960
like takes a couple of hundred dollars at most that I have on that wallet.

818
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,920
So I test everything with that.

819
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:37,120
I got like a couple of thousand PIF just from minor trading and testing on Mars.

820
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,280
And then I was trading on Lovanna with my ledger, which I found to be a real pain in

821
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,800
the ass because it's like 26 clicks to approve a transaction.

822
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,880
So then I moved that funds into a hot wallet to trade with because the ledger was too annoying.

823
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,280
So I ended up getting it on that wallet too.

824
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,640
And then I think I just had, it was like, I was mucking around with like a bot or something

825
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,120
to like open and close positions on Lovanna.

826
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,960
So I moved some like a small amount of funds to another wallet just to test if I could

827
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,880
do it via CLI and execute the smart contract.

828
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,800
And I got a couple of thousand just for testing it there.

829
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,800
But like the other wallets that I actually traded with, it was like 4.1K PIF or something

830
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:13,800
like that.

831
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:20,240
I was like, yeah, I got it on Neutron as well from doing some Mars stuff on Neutron because

832
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:26,320
it was, there was a period of time where it was profitable to, oh, how did it work?

833
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,120
You deposited the SD atom on Osmosis.

834
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:35,120
You borrowed some USDC and then you could lend that on Neutron.

835
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:41,520
And for some reason that just printed money for you because the ratios were just way out.

836
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,840
And so I did that for a bit.

837
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:48,360
And then I made a lot more from the PIF air drop than that little bit of farming did for

838
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:49,360
me.

839
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,920
So, but I made, I made a mistake of telling my wife just how much the air drop was worth.

840
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,640
So all of that's come straight out of crypto and into the app.

841
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,680
I basically fell off the sofa when I was like, because I was just like trying to, I went,

842
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,320
oh, you know, fire up a VPN and claim this, claimed it.

843
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:10,520
And then I was like, that, these 30, it was like 31 cents a token or whatever.

844
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,280
And I kind of just said it out loud and then was like, oh, shit.

845
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,800
Now I have, now all of this has to come out of the app.

846
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,280
And but it's gone on Black Friday stuff and I'm going to be very comfortable.

847
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,920
So you're serious when you replied to my tweet that you just went to Black Friday, lingerie?

848
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,560
I mean, some of it will go, some of it will be Christmas presents.

849
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:27,920
Black Friday lingerie.

850
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,320
I got mine.

851
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,360
It was my first experience in exposure to Solana.

852
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,920
It was actually a really good experience.

853
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,280
I could never had a wallet or anything.

854
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,000
Creating a web wallet was really easy, straightforward.

855
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,520
I just got a friend to send me like a tiny bit of gas to claim it and send it.

856
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,360
The transaction speeds, he was like sent.

857
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:52,360
I checked my wallet.

858
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:53,360
It was there.

859
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:54,360
There was like almost no delay.

860
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,760
It was basically incident.

861
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,640
And then I claimed it, it was already in my wallet.

862
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,920
And then I sent it to Maxi.

863
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:01,920
And even that was quick.

864
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,600
It was like maybe a minute or two to get to Maxi.

865
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:05,600
It was really quick.

866
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:06,600
It was really quick.

867
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:07,600
It was a minute to coinbase.

868
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:08,600
Yeah.

869
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:09,600
Really quick.

870
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,600
Yeah.

871
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:11,800
It's like, it was, you know, maybe a minute or two to confirm 100, you know, whatever

872
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,800
they, however they do it, 100 confirmations.

873
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:15,800
And then it was there.

874
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,880
And then I just instant dumped it and bought Zephyr.

875
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:19,880
I bought Zephyr.

876
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:25,120
But the, I think the thing for me with it was, yeah, so I had to, it took a bit long because

877
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,840
I had to go and get some Solana for gas and do that.

878
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,400
But I had a good experience.

879
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,480
How did you get your gas?

880
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,920
I bought it on a, I had a bit of money on a sex and just swapped it and sent it to the

881
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:37,920
wallet address.

882
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,640
How much was the fee to like send your Solana to your pennies?

883
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,320
But the minimum I could send was like five bucks.

884
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:46,320
So yeah.

885
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,520
So I spent five bucks and then was just like, no, it's fine.

886
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:50,600
And now I'm going to get back.

887
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,600
It's not a problem.

888
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,520
I think the mixy withdrawal fees are quite high, Rama.

889
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:01,880
Not if you withdraw, yeah, but I just withdraw like Adam or whatever and then I borrowed

890
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,800
some gas from Uncle Badd.

891
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,320
I was in bed, right?

892
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,400
I was, you know, winding down ready to go to sleep at like 1.30 AM or something.

893
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,120
And I just got a DM from a friend though, like, did you claim your pit there?

894
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,720
Drop it's trading at like 34 cents.

895
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:19,120
I was like, I claimed it.

896
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,880
I said, my, the only reason I got it, because I wasn't, I wasn't going to be bothered.

897
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:28,960
I was like, because in, yeah, you need to, they can't distribute to the UK.

898
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:34,000
So fortunately I was in Rome very briefly at the time that I claimed it.

899
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:41,200
So, but that happened because my dad sent me a message asking about a VPN for when they're

900
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,680
going away in a few weeks and he wants to watch some television while he's away, watch

901
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:46,680
a bit of football.

902
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,720
And they want to VPN and I asked a friend just for a recommendation for him.

903
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,200
And while I was doing that, I was like, Oh, by the way, can I just borrow your login for

904
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:56,200
something briefly?

905
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,880
And if it hadn't been for my dad, what's up in here, I probably wouldn't have been bothered

906
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,480
and then I wouldn't have had a couple of thousand dollars for nothing.

907
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:09,680
I did, I did contemplate holding some Solana, but as I say, I told my wife what the amount

908
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:10,680
was.

909
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:11,680
So there we go.

910
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,320
I need to start using multiple wallets though.

911
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,160
That's the reality rather than just one.

912
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:16,880
Yeah, you got to spread it around, man.

913
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,880
It's just so much admin.

914
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,800
You got to write down 24 words so many times.

915
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,360
Can I really be bothered?

916
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,520
I just used hot wallets.

917
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:33,360
I figured out the trick to make them without having to remember the, you know, seed trays.

918
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,520
You just create a new wallet and then, no, yeah.

919
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:42,280
So you create a new wallet, you copy all of the, like, you know how it makes you like

920
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,600
pick out words and then put it in?

921
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,200
So you just create a new wallet, copy all those words that come up and then get out

922
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,040
of that and restore a wallet and just paste them in there.

923
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,080
Then you don't have to do like that picking out the word thing.

924
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:56,080
So I've got all these wallets.

925
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,520
I don't know the seed phrase to.

926
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,960
I think it's an interesting approach to Opset, right?

927
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,920
Where as long as you don't have a lot of money in any of them, it doesn't really matter.

928
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:05,920
Yeah.

929
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,680
Well, I mean, they're just like burners that you're like, you need to do something and

930
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,840
you're like, I don't, that seems a bit sketchy.

931
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,880
I might not use that with my wallet.

932
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,760
So you have a little burn wallet, you do the thing, then you like delete it and then.

933
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:24,040
I just have a, I've got a Python script and I just change like whatever chain I want and

934
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,200
then I just go generate me 10 wallets and then it spits it out to a text file with the

935
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,200
memos.

936
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,880
Sorry, the mnemonics and then I just copy pasted it into Kepler.

937
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,600
So you are a developer of some description, right?

938
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,600
Rama?

939
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,400
I developed just not blockchain.

940
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:41,400
Yeah.

941
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,960
So what, what, like what languages do you know?

942
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:45,960
Obviously Python.

943
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,880
JavaScript, C, HTML, enough.

944
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,880
Oh yeah?

945
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:51,880
So like web dev type stuff.

946
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:52,880
Oh, wow.

947
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,280
I can get myself into and out of trouble for the most part.

948
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,480
I can get myself into trouble and can't get myself out.

949
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,880
Like I know enough just to be dangerous enough to break all my stuff.

950
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:08,320
I've done, you know, I've done development for, you know, various types of development

951
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:14,840
for 15 or years, just haven't got into like Rust and go so far.

952
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,080
JavaScript I can get, you know, course and pain.

953
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:22,040
I understand languages that is don't, I haven't spent the time to fundamentally learn them.

954
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:27,640
So whenever I review the code, I can kind of see what it does and how it's structured.

955
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,680
But yeah, just have no care to actually get in and do a hardcore dev rather focus on like

956
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:33,680
process and advice.

957
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,920
Go, like go is just, well, in Rust.

958
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,240
Like those ones that just have tons of files for like and pointing to themselves all over

959
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:43,240
the place.

960
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:48,360
They're a little bit painful for me to go through and try to glean what they do.

961
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:53,920
But anyway, so what's the Sam Altman news, Rama?

962
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:54,920
Yeah.

963
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:59,760
So I thought I saw how much Frey had about Sam last week.

964
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:07,360
I don't know if they got touched on, but Mr. Altman, the CEO, ex CEO and CEO of Open

965
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:15,280
AI, he was unanimously fired by the board over the weekend, unceremoniously shafted from

966
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,600
his own organization from the board because of whatever reasons.

967
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:24,520
And then there was like massive outrage and their share prices tanked by the looks of

968
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,600
things and employees were like exiting left, right and center because he was like the visionary

969
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,400
right.

970
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,200
And then within like hours of sacking him and publicly announcing it, like all of the

971
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,760
board were like apologizing, you know, Oh, we love the company.

972
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,800
We didn't mean to cause this much harm.

973
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,920
And then a day or two later, like Microsoft announces Sam as like the head of the new

974
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,800
O AI department of Microsoft, basically giving him like unlimited budget and like hiring

975
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,760
a bunch of the people that were leaving open AI.

976
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,260
Wow.

977
00:53:59,260 --> 00:54:01,280
And then how much of Open AI?

978
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:05,080
So much of my open AI to Microsoft own because they're a big investor in it, right?

979
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:06,360
Like 50% or something.

980
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,040
Yeah, very, very large holder.

981
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,560
And then, yeah, so they announced that Microsoft is like putting him in.

982
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,680
And the funny thing is like in the Microsoft position, he would basically be like the liaison

983
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,120
between the Microsoft AI team and open AI.

984
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:27,160
He would be in charge of open AI and the interactions between Microsoft anyway.

985
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:32,520
And then yesterday, the board, a bunch of the board stepped down.

986
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:37,040
There's a new board appointed of like three people and they've rehired Sam as the CEO.

987
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,440
It's like everyone's like coming back and Microsoft are happy with it.

988
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:46,800
Do we know how much the Twitch guy got paid for his 24 hours as Chief Exec?

989
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:47,800
Yeah.

990
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:48,800
Did they even sign the paper?

991
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,320
He must have made bank on a day's work.

992
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,520
Like if they were in the contract there for money, right?

993
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:01,960
And it was actually signed with no like termination or, you know, a cooldown period.

994
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,280
This has made millions of dollars just for rocking up like the shortest CEO in almost

995
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,720
history, not even 24 hours.

996
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:11,120
Probably didn't even get into the office.

997
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,960
Probably just signed and then got asked immediately.

998
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:14,960
Yeah.

999
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,040
I mean, the whole thing is so funny.

1000
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:23,360
But what's also funny is I was saying there's a telegram chat I'm in and there's a few notable

1001
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,240
Cosmos personalities in there.

1002
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:32,400
And what was funny is they were comparing it to the outsting of Jake one and how that

1003
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:38,480
was and kind of assigning each other roles as to who they were in this, you know, which

1004
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,160
of the players in this they were.

1005
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:48,840
And it was, it's very funny because yeah, I mean, but like I get it because they were

1006
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:54,320
they all like it's a big part of their lives and they obviously a lot of trauma in something

1007
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,840
like that, I guess would be the point where putting it so it colors a lot of what they

1008
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:58,840
see everywhere.

1009
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:06,280
But I think like it just goes to show like because the question I've got is what was

1010
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,280
he sacked for?

1011
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,400
Because basically they said, he didn't really tell us the truth.

1012
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,120
And so we sacked him.

1013
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,680
And then he's been reinstated and you just think what are these skeletons that are there

1014
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,600
that caused them to sack him in the first place?

1015
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,200
Because at some point they'll come out.

1016
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:20,200
Yeah.

1017
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,280
He's probably done something that was not very woke or something like that.

1018
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,480
I don't know.

1019
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:26,480
We don't actually know.

1020
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,640
There was like allegations around like, you know, his sister and all these weird things.

1021
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:32,640
Yeah, like legit.

1022
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:33,640
Yeah.

1023
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,600
There's people saying like she's posted like tweets and stuff like asserting that, you

1024
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,880
know, her brothers or other people have like done bad things.

1025
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,440
And obviously, you know, what coach everyone just jumped to the conclusion that of course

1026
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:50,640
she's right and it's true, you know, guilty before proven innocent, etc.

1027
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,480
But then like the board obviously can't come out and say that.

1028
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,920
So they're like, you know, we've lost confidence in his, you know, approach and vision.

1029
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:02,240
The board was very much of the opinion that they should like take a step back and like

1030
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:08,720
slow down on AI rather than like pushing forward and being as adventurous as they currently

1031
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:09,720
are.

1032
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:11,240
Who knows what the truth is.

1033
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:17,320
But like, I always refer back to Lord Elon's tweet of like the most entertaining outcome

1034
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:18,840
is the most likely.

1035
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,560
And that was literally the most entertaining outcome.

1036
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:26,640
Like, so I didn't, I did enjoy the whole thing about he will go to any lengths to avoid using

1037
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,640
Microsoft Teams.

1038
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:34,080
Yeah, man, I hate Microsoft Teams as well.

1039
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,080
It sucks.

1040
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,080
I use it daily.

1041
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,080
I like it though.

1042
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:39,080
No.

1043
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,920
So the daily part of my life as well.

1044
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,200
And it's used a lot more at my current employer than it was used at my previous employer.

1045
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,840
This one just used it to cause and this one's like calls plus tap like messaging nonstop.

1046
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:51,840
Yeah.

1047
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:57,120
This is like a document repository to like integrates with like file hosting solutions

1048
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:02,520
where you integrate with customers and like have collaborative chats and teams and that

1049
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,320
sounds like such pain.

1050
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,600
The like, it should be just a chat only thing.

1051
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:13,880
Like I don't see why it needs to have like files and stuff integrated it, not even chat,

1052
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,400
just have a video thing.

1053
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,360
Like I like meat is the best one out of all of them.

1054
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,240
It does its job and it does its job well.

1055
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,040
You know, you can just jump in, jump out.

1056
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:26,040
No problems.

1057
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:32,000
You can, it's not a frigging app and you can just share your screen on different tabs

1058
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,120
that you have open all that stuff.

1059
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,560
It's, it just works.

1060
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:40,520
And like the Microsoft one, I just have problems with no end, especially if I don't want to

1061
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:45,760
install the app in trying to like actually share documents and tabs and stuff that I'm

1062
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:52,720
working on or like what I do a lot in meetings is have meeting minutes on the screen and

1063
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,440
do the meeting minutes as we have the meetings saves the whole rigmarole afterwards where

1064
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,840
you do the back and forth.

1065
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:05,120
Can't do that a lot of the time with Microsoft teams because on Mac it just doesn't really

1066
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,120
work that very well.

1067
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:07,120
So yeah.

1068
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:12,000
Although like Word and Excel are getting better and better on Mac.

1069
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:17,680
I don't really, I used to have to run two laptops to have one running bloody windows

1070
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:23,240
just to use Office and another one with Mac because it works better for everything else

1071
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,160
other than Office or CAD if you need to use that.

1072
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,040
But like, yeah, that was a huge pain.

1073
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,840
So then I just pulled the trigger and just went full time Mac.

1074
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:40,200
And I say that's my last thing that is just doesn't work very well is meat.

1075
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:46,600
But I also noticed that the Outlook version of, I'm sorry, the Mac version of Outlook

1076
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:53,200
when you drag and drop messages out of there, it saves it in a with a different extension.

1077
00:59:53,200 --> 01:00:00,160
So if you send, like if you drag an email outright to a file and then drop it into an

1078
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,680
email and send it to someone on Windows, they can't open the bloody thing because it's a

1079
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:04,680
different extension.

1080
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:05,680
It's a different format.

1081
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,560
Like why not use the same format?

1082
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:08,560
Makes no sense.

1083
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:13,760
This is as interesting as when we do the episode about spinning up a holiday.

1084
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,760
So nothing wishing you wrong.

1085
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:16,760
All right.

1086
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:17,760
Sorry.

1087
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,760
No one cares about my office problems.

1088
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,680
Oh, you didn't like the Mac.

1089
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:27,280
You didn't like the episode of the, I mean, I watched the whole thing because I'm the

1090
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,000
most dedicated viewer, but, but like, you know, it was a struggle.

1091
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,000
Yeah.

1092
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,200
I think the way I did a struggle to set up a validator was pretty funny.

1093
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,840
Doing it that way is definitely the slow way of doing it.

1094
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:43,320
Like ordinarily you just press go on Ansible and then come back in five minutes and it's

1095
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:44,320
done.

1096
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,560
That, that would have been a better episode.

1097
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:48,560
Thank you for your feedback.

1098
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,520
I have 18 months later.

1099
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:57,800
I think I gave the feedback pretty directly at the time as well to be fair.

1100
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,400
But you know, we haven't, you guys haven't done it since.

1101
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,160
So I take it that the thing can take on board.

1102
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,760
Well, we were going to do a refresher and do a consumer chain.

1103
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,880
Well, it would be interesting because Shonsi doesn't know how they work.

1104
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,560
No, I didn't do it.

1105
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:19,000
It's a, I tell you what, it's been, it's been nice avoiding all of the Adam drama, never

1106
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:24,800
having spun up a Adam validator, not having to care about any of that at all has been

1107
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,280
just probably the highlight of my career in Devils.

1108
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:34,320
848 was a contributing factor to me just thinking, oh fuck it and leaving.

1109
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:39,560
I'm, I'm, you know, the last news topic we can avoid if we like, the only thing I will

1110
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:44,840
raise is like the last week and a half of not being involved in Cosmos and governance

1111
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:51,760
drama and focusing on changing a parameter from point one to point two or the inverse

1112
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:59,680
is, is exactly what epitomizes summarizes why Cosmos tokens severely lag behind anything

1113
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,080
else in the crypto sphere in terms of price appreciation.

1114
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:09,160
And it's because people legitimately do not give a fuck about governance and the parameters

1115
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,520
on the chain and funding people out of the community pool.

1116
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:17,000
What they want to do is they want to get away from the fucking nine to five feet job, come

1117
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:21,360
into crypto and have some fun and invest in tokens that are going to go up and not have

1118
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:22,360
to deal with all the drama.

1119
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,040
It's taken me a while to realize, but that's like fundamentally what it is like Cosmos

1120
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:28,560
has good tech.

1121
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:29,560
Don't talk about the tech.

1122
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,840
Don't talk about the governance in the drama.

1123
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:37,240
Talk about how the tech is going to make people fucking rich and people will come and invest.

1124
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:43,360
The ideal thing is that like, if you could align it so that 25% of people in Devsyn Cosmos

1125
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:52,680
built fun casinos and roulette wheels and then pumped that money into the 75% that are building

1126
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:58,040
functioning tech and IBC and doing all the interesting nerd stuff, but they weren't allowed

1127
01:02:58,040 --> 01:02:59,520
to speak to anyone.

1128
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,680
That would be the ideal scenario.

1129
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,600
And to be honest, that's how Web 2 works.

1130
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,160
Every employment contract needs a gag clause.

1131
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:15,200
I'm almost aligning with Jay more and more every day, like more NDAs are needed for employees,

1132
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:19,760
like to the point where it's literally a gag order if you are employed by any development

1133
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:20,760
team in Cosmos.

1134
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,440
You're just not allowed to have a social media account, not allowed to have alt accounts.

1135
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,160
If you're caught, you don't get fired.

1136
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:33,720
You get locked into a dungeon where you only have access to GitHub and no other websites.

1137
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:37,640
Introduce the great firewall of China inside development organizations.

1138
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:42,640
You get locked into a dungeon where you only have access to BFOT to try and survive.

1139
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:49,520
You can escape your way out of that financially and you can open a Twitter account.

1140
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:55,560
I genuinely, let's just crack open that GitHub, move it over from Juno to Neutron and have

1141
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:56,560
some fun.

1142
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:57,560
What?

1143
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:58,560
It's closed source.

1144
01:03:58,560 --> 01:03:59,560
I don't think they open sourced it.

1145
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,080
Did they not open source it?

1146
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:02,080
Damn it.

1147
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:03,080
I could message him.

1148
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:04,080
He's still on Discord.

1149
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,080
I could message him to open source it.

1150
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,080
Oh, the console thing?

1151
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,080
Yeah.

1152
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,360
Just play with it again on Neutron.

1153
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,040
It's going to be different this time.

1154
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,240
Well, it's been on Chihuahua since then.

1155
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,240
It's never stopped.

1156
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:19,240
It was like a subset.

1157
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:24,080
It was like a Fortis light.

1158
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:28,920
Then they introduced the Ash thing that White Whale forked and introduced on their chain

1159
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:37,000
as the furnace on a whale-oriented chain, which makes a lot of sense.

1160
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,040
Yeah, but I spoke to him.

1161
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,880
I'm pretty certain that he's moved on from Cosmos.

1162
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:49,360
He's doing other languages and helping out with other chains because it was an experiment.

1163
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,000
It was fun.

1164
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:55,480
Maybe he got the data that he wanted from it.

1165
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,720
I think that obviously now you look back and you just go, well, that was all very silly.

1166
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:01,720
But at the time it was a lot of fun.

1167
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:06,080
I think it speaks to what you were talking about, where people want to enjoy their experience

1168
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,720
and try to make a bit of money.

1169
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,560
Or at least enjoy losing money.

1170
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:18,000
I'm always, maybe, but I'm really shocked that anyone is able to lose money in blockchain.

1171
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:23,040
It seems really easy if you're not greedy just to profit.

1172
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:28,600
I don't know if that's just me being vanilla as a friend of mine or to me the other day.

1173
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,680
You're definitely vanilla.

1174
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,480
Somehow, somehow, somehow.

1175
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:39,280
You either want to get your money rich or you just want to be here for 10 years.

1176
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:42,360
I don't think that the being here for 10 years is great for your mental health.

1177
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,320
The only way to make your money is to gamble.

1178
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:49,520
To gamble, you've got to do dumb shit, put a bunch of money into a shit coin that you

1179
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:56,680
have no idea about like Fortis or like fucking Zephyr or Harry Potter or Osama, Barma, Hancock,

1180
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:57,680
Innu.

1181
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,200
That's how you get fucking rich.

1182
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:01,440
It's literally gambling.

1183
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,360
Everyone knows it, but that's the way to do it.

1184
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,080
You've only got so much time to do it, the longer you're here, the less chances of you

1185
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:11,880
actually making it are and the more your mental health can be impacted.

1186
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:17,960
I think that's an interesting take because I feel like personally I'm probably up 5,

1187
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,720
6x, something like that.

1188
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,840
Yeah, it depends how much you're invested.

1189
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:30,480
Yeah, I never put a lot in and I'm not counting the salary that I took out.

1190
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:39,480
But just in terms of, yeah, I mean, airdrops and not being dumb and selling Juno for Atom

1191
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:46,120
and things like that, just sensible moves and not being greedy.

1192
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:51,800
I think, so like the AI data stuff, I count very differently because that was like me trying

1193
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:56,200
to do something positive and trying to help.

1194
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,800
Maybe it did or didn't, I'm not entirely sure.

1195
01:06:58,800 --> 01:06:59,800
Probably did.

1196
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:07,840
But I think that like the money side of it, for me, it's like, I suppose it's like, if

1197
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:10,880
I can be sensible enough, then my mental health won't suffer.

1198
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:16,080
Suffer more with doing AADL and trying to actually like work and make things happen and

1199
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:20,600
deal with people being, you know, they weren't too bad with me to be honest, but there's

1200
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:25,040
an element of aggression and unpleasantness and you get criticized entirely.

1201
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,320
But you know, I knew I was getting into that.

1202
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:32,320
So, but I think that like, you know, to stay in that ring for a long time and work there

1203
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:33,720
is really hard.

1204
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,040
And then I think that if you're gambling a lot, then that's not going to be great for

1205
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:38,040
your mental health.

1206
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,480
And for me, it's like, if I could do, if I can do three or four acts every year, then

1207
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,880
I'll still be, you know, I'll still do really well.

1208
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,280
If you can do three or four acts each year, can you manage my portfolio?

1209
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:50,280
Yeah, sure.

1210
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:56,320
But this, but I just think it's like, love it has been paying attention and not being

1211
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:57,960
as greedy as other people.

1212
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,720
Like it's, and just, you know, and kind of going, oh, I've made some profit and maybe

1213
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:06,080
I will take that profit and let a little bit of it run.

1214
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:11,520
So like as an example, I'm currently up like 1200% on a particular token and I haven't

1215
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,160
taken any profits yet.

1216
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,360
Whereas I would already have just like some random arbitrem shitcoins and stuff like easily

1217
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:20,720
like, oh, over 10 acts and I haven't touched it.

1218
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:21,720
And that's the thing.

1219
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,520
Like that's why you will become a millionaire before I would.

1220
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:25,520
Or zero.

1221
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:26,520
Like, right?

1222
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:27,520
I realize profits.

1223
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,760
That's how much you willing to gamble.

1224
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:35,040
Whereas when I get a two acts, I just go, oh, right, I'll take the initial capital out.

1225
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:36,040
Cool.

1226
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:37,040
Yeah.

1227
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:39,160
And it's all like the way I do it is like, look at market cap, right?

1228
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:40,360
Like what's the narrative?

1229
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:41,680
What's the, you know, what is the token?

1230
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:42,680
Does it have utility?

1231
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:43,680
Does it have community?

1232
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,640
What's, you know, what's the market cap in comparison to something similar to it?

1233
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:47,640
Right.

1234
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:52,360
And if those things make sense, like as an example, like, you know, I own some neutron.

1235
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:56,160
I'm holding neutron long term because I like the product and I think that they're doing

1236
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:57,160
good things.

1237
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:58,760
But like, I'm not going to take out profits from neutral.

1238
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,000
Not like a two X as an example, right?

1239
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,520
Because I think that it's market cap can go like substantially higher in a real bull market

1240
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:06,520
up into the billions.

1241
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:10,960
Why would I take profit on it when it's like 220 million or something, right?

1242
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:15,120
Whereas like some arbitrage and shit coin that I buy at like two or five million, I'm

1243
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,200
not going to hold that to like 200 million, right?

1244
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,720
Like, I'm going to take some profits on it at like, you know, two, three, five X when

1245
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,800
it becomes like, apparently obvious that it's market caps too high.

1246
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:30,400
This is sort of what a really smart guy was talking to me about at Cosmoverse where he

1247
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,200
was like, why are you so like, this was around after the leaves.

1248
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,600
Like, you don't believe that and it's worth this price, do you?

1249
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:37,080
I was like, no, I think it's worth more.

1250
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:38,560
And he was like, so why are you selling any?

1251
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:42,280
And I was like, because I kind of want to, you know, treat the family and do some stuff

1252
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:43,680
and it was just like, well, you're an idiot.

1253
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,320
And I was like, okay, fair point.

1254
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,600
Like, yeah, let's let's hold Adam while like ICS and AIB.

1255
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:54,120
Well, you know, I mean, you could swap it for something else, right?

1256
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:55,120
You totally could.

1257
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,400
But like, he was just talking to the choice was between that and the app.

1258
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,800
So yeah, so I haven't taken like, I take very little money out of crypto into like actual

1259
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,080
fiat.

1260
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,560
The reason is that I don't want to pay the tax man.

1261
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,600
And so I'll just like rotate it and just like record my transactions.

1262
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:17,640
And then I'll get like pre-rich or like unrealized profits rich with the goal of like compounding

1263
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,880
up where my portfolio is a good amount where if I do a 10%, like it's a substantial amount

1264
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:22,880
of money.

1265
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:23,880
That's the goal, right?

1266
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,280
Rather than like, oh, let's take a few thousand here because, you know, I did a 5x or whatever

1267
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:28,280
or 2x.

1268
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:34,000
I'm of the opinion that like now when like we're actually moving towards a bull market,

1269
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,200
like there's substantial money to be made if you are smart about it.

1270
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:39,280
And I don't need to take fiat money, right?

1271
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,480
Like, you know, wife and I have got pretty good jobs.

1272
01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:43,440
I certainly could and it would make life easier.

1273
01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:48,080
But I think there's substantial upside in the next kind of six to nine months.

1274
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,080
So rather do that instead.

1275
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:54,400
I think what's fascinating to me is how that it kind of just purges on psychology, right?

1276
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,080
Some of it's to do with your own personal circumstances and whatever.

1277
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:00,360
And then there's just this amount which is to do with why is it you're looking to do

1278
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,440
and how much how much are you looking to make?

1279
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:08,160
And like to me, it's like, I know that by being less greedy than Rama, I will outperform

1280
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,920
him consistently, but he might beat me overall.

1281
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:15,680
Like that's the thing because I will I will slowly chip away and I will take profits more

1282
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:16,920
consistently than him.

1283
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,320
But actually he might hit the jackpot and suddenly walk away a million and I'll be there going

1284
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,520
now, well, I made a few thousand.

1285
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:27,040
Yeah, like, yeah, you know, I guess people get seduced by that million.

1286
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:33,000
They're like, oh, if I bought this, you know, I bought I could have bought Bitcoin in 2000

1287
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,000
and whatever.

1288
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,720
And if I had just held it till now, it's like, yeah, but no one's got that kind of ability

1289
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,480
to hold it like that.

1290
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:44,000
Most of the people who like forgot about it would go rich.

1291
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,160
Yeah, it depends what it is, right?

1292
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,880
Like, you're not going to like leave it in some fucking random meme coin.

1293
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,320
You know, that's one in a thousand or one in 10,000 chance that that particular thing

1294
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,600
like goes parabolic, right?

1295
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:59,320
My big thing is like, I do crypto for fun and it's a hobby and part of that fun and

1296
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:05,440
hobby is like gambling on whether or not like I actually have money that I can eventually

1297
01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:09,000
take that were substantially more than what I put in.

1298
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:14,840
In terms of like actual dollars, time wise, I'm fucking, I mean, debt, I'm dirt poor for

1299
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:15,840
crypto.

1300
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:19,600
But like, you know, money wise, like I'm substantially in profit in terms of my portfolio,

1301
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,000
which is great or unrealized.

1302
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,000
And it's all part of the gamble and the fun and the hobby side of things, right?

1303
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,240
Like, which is my goal.

1304
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,880
So like I can still go on holidays and do things with the family because, you know, we're reasonably

1305
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,840
well fed like off because of our feet, mind jobs.

1306
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,120
So while I can continue to do that, I will.

1307
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:42,080
And if I need to, I can just instantly cash out and take the profits where I need to.

1308
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,640
So the moral of the story is don't be a validator.

1309
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:50,480
Yeah, I think they probably spend substantially more time than I do, but also probably profit

1310
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:52,120
a lot more than I did.

1311
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,840
Validators definitely work 24 hours a day.

1312
01:12:54,840 --> 01:13:00,040
As an example, not last night, but the night before I got woken up eight times during the

1313
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:04,080
night and probably three of those times was necessary to wake up.

1314
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:08,840
But I, and, you know, the fall out of that is yesterday was a terrible day for me because

1315
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,680
I was just tired and had a headache the entire day.

1316
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,120
But last night, nothing.

1317
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:19,160
So, but like, you know, overall, if you're a validator and have like people working for

1318
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:23,320
you and stuff like that, you just, you spend all your time on it.

1319
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,360
And it's very hard to get away.

1320
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,360
Yeah, definitely.

1321
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,600
Like, and I don't like that.

1322
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:33,040
That's part of the reason why, you know, everyone was like, run up and start a validator, start

1323
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:34,800
a validator, like, you know, we'll support you.

1324
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,720
And, you know, I was like, when I really thought about it, I was like, I have to manage this

1325
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,200
shit fucking ever.

1326
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:47,840
And if I decide to like, spit down or whatever, it's like substantial, like social impact

1327
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:50,200
and effort to like manage and maintain this shit.

1328
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,760
I was just like, no, no way.

1329
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:58,880
Like am I getting involved in something that was like perpetually effort and time for like

1330
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:03,720
probably little value where I would be in like the validator set in income wise?

1331
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:05,280
Well, we've said it here before.

1332
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:09,560
And like the expectation is once you spin something up, you keep it running.

1333
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,520
And like, because, you know, once people state to it, they, people want to stake and

1334
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:16,480
forget they don't want to be like checking back every day to see if you're still there.

1335
01:14:16,480 --> 01:14:22,360
So it's not fair to like your delegators, if you just all of a sudden pop smoke, which,

1336
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:27,680
you know, I have done on a couple of networks that were probably net bad for the users anyway.

1337
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:33,600
So we gave plenty of notice to leave, but you still cop heaps of problems when you do

1338
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:34,600
that.

1339
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,600
And then people will actually leave you on other networks as well.

1340
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:37,600
So, Bendy.

1341
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:42,520
Well, I was just going to say, I think there was some chat about having a button that you

1342
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:47,160
press, but when I'm spinning down, undeligate all my people, so they go redelec- you know,

1343
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:51,680
like this should be a piece of functionality that would like, it wouldn't be difficult

1344
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,160
to come up with something like-

1345
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:54,880
It'd be nice if there was like-

1346
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:55,880
Particularly with the LSD.

1347
01:14:55,880 --> 01:15:02,240
Some sort of function that if a validator could say, I'm going, but I trust this other

1348
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:07,640
validator, you could do a spin down transaction and transfer all of your stake to another

1349
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:08,640
one.

1350
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:09,640
Yeah.

1351
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:10,640
That'd be great.

1352
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,320
If they trust you, then they should trust you.

1353
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:18,360
Or if it's like, has to be waited so that you can't like screw the network by being

1354
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:23,000
too centralized or whatever, you know, there's going to be some technical, you know, that

1355
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,800
you go, yeah, okay, you have to distribute it across 10 people or whatever.

1356
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,520
It doesn't really matter.

1357
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:33,160
It's kind of more that what shouldn't happen is you stop validating and the user just doesn't

1358
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,320
know and then they're not getting the stake in order to expect it.

1359
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:40,080
Most of the time, I don't think the, I'm sorry to say this, no, but I don't think the users

1360
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,480
really care who they're delegating to.

1361
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:48,760
I think they, you know, I get sure I delegate to, so principally, if there's a game of nodes

1362
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:53,240
validator on a chain, I will delegate to them because I enjoy this show and that's kind

1363
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:55,600
of like my little like, oh, there you go.

1364
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:57,440
You can have a little bit of commission.

1365
01:15:57,440 --> 01:15:59,160
Like, that's it.

1366
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:05,480
Like, you know, I don't, I have no idea which of you is a good validator or a bad validator

1367
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:07,280
or well, we're all good validators.

1368
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,280
Well, obviously, that clear right now.

1369
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:14,880
Well, obviously, and probably King knows is probably the best, but that's not, you know,

1370
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,920
because you're the only one that turns up for this.

1371
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:17,920
Yeah, exactly.

1372
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:18,920
Yeah.

1373
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:20,400
The only one that consistently turns up.

1374
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:21,400
Yeah.

1375
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:23,400
Has it missed an episode away?

1376
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:24,400
I have.

1377
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,800
Well, I've definitely been away for episodes that I may have came to anyway.

1378
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:34,040
Like, I'm just glad that we didn't, we didn't miss an episode and the show went on regardless.

1379
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:35,040
That's the main thing.

1380
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:36,040
That's my takeaway.

1381
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:40,520
Someone indicated to me in the group chat that we may have already missed an episode

1382
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:43,400
at some point, but I don't recall when this might have been.

1383
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:48,440
This is called cause less harm also believes we've missed one back in March.

1384
01:16:48,440 --> 01:16:50,480
And I think that everyone was at a conference.

1385
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:53,480
I think is what it was.

1386
01:16:53,480 --> 01:16:55,480
We all were at a conference in March.

1387
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:56,480
Yes.

1388
01:16:56,480 --> 01:17:03,440
So that I think yet it was a conference and nobody thought to give Rama and I a bell then

1389
01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:10,960
for today or today, you know, the fray has my actual mobile number.

1390
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,120
He can definitely sub me in at any point.

1391
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:18,080
Oh, now I feel like, you know, well, in the cold, I didn't have your mobile phone.

1392
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:19,720
If you really want to go there, no.

1393
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:20,720
All right.

1394
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:21,720
Rama has mine.

1395
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:22,720
Yeah.

1396
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:23,720
Yeah.

1397
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,720
I think the next thing we need to organize probably is when he called me.

1398
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:28,120
But it's not the other way.

1399
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:29,120
Oh yeah.

1400
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,520
I actually called Rama the other day.

1401
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:33,960
And he's like, who the fuck are you?

1402
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:34,960
He's like, hello.

1403
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:36,680
He's like, caught my name.

1404
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,160
He's this, like a barely hearing.

1405
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:40,160
So it's blood.

1406
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,160
I was like, who?

1407
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:43,160
It's not like, oh.

1408
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:44,160
Yeah.

1409
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:46,520
I'm like using my name and I'm using null.

1410
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:47,520
I'm using my name.

1411
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:48,520
I'm using null.

1412
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:49,520
I'm using my name.

1413
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:50,520
I'm using null.

1414
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:51,520
He's like, who the fuck are you talking about?

1415
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:52,520
What?

1416
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:53,520
What are you calling me?

1417
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:54,920
I'm like, fuck man.

1418
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,520
Just like you think.

1419
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,520
Look at your phone.

1420
01:17:58,520 --> 01:17:59,520
Yeah.

1421
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,000
But anyway, sort of that out.

1422
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:03,000
Can we source out the Christmas party, please?

1423
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:04,000
What Christmas party?

1424
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,000
Like the gone Christmas party?

1425
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:07,000
Yeah.

1426
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,000
An online Christmas party or?

1427
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:12,320
I think I don't like, you know, Tray and I live close enough together in the UK that

1428
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:13,920
we could get together for a beer.

1429
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:14,920
You're Australian.

1430
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:15,920
So you can have a good morning drink.

1431
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:17,760
You guys could meet up.

1432
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,760
You know, I think you're like.

1433
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:19,760
You're going to do a live.

1434
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:20,760
Yeah.

1435
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:23,000
We get in Rio to hang out.

1436
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:24,000
Yeah.

1437
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,000
Yeah.

1438
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:26,000
I mean, I guess so.

1439
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,000
We could do like.

1440
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:28,000
I can totally do it.

1441
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,000
I mean, I think we're friends have gone like meet up, I suppose.

1442
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:32,000
Yeah.

1443
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:36,000
It's entirely possible, I would say entirely.

1444
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:43,000
I do feel like I'm going to cop shade from my misses for drinking whiskey at 6am.

1445
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:46,000
But you know, whatever.

1446
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:47,000
What does she?

1447
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,000
But does she watch the show?

1448
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:52,000
She definitely does not watch the show.

1449
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,000
She is not a friend of the show.

1450
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,000
She's not my friend while I'm doing the show.

1451
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:01,000
She thinks I'm a dumb fucking nerd on the internet talking to other idiots.

1452
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,000
So sounds like she might dance.

1453
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,000
Sounds like she might know you were drinking whiskey at 6am.

1454
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:08,000
Yeah.

1455
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,000
Like I don't think that's going to improve the situation.

1456
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:16,000
She really going to care when you become a multimillionaire.

1457
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,000
That's the key.

1458
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,000
She does not care about my pre-rich.

1459
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:27,000
She thinks that internet tokens are dumb and not worth anything.

1460
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:32,000
So, and I mean, you know, that's the sentiment that a lot of people have.

1461
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,000
Just wait till it's Chihuahua season, right?

1462
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,000
And those jerks might come back to life.

1463
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,000
Man, I have got a lot of those.

1464
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:45,000
And I should not have kept.

1465
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,000
Yeah.

1466
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:48,000
My degening was hard back in the bull market.

1467
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,000
And yeah, I watched this.

1468
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,000
I need to let the dogs out for sure.

1469
01:19:54,000 --> 01:20:00,000
I mean, you know, you just you need to employ some paid shills and that token will run.

1470
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,000
Because it has, you know, it's got great utility and it's a dog.

1471
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,000
I mean, the best paid shill that I've been seeing lately is Rama.

1472
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,000
And it is it is a dog.

1473
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,000
It's been going hard on the shilling lately.

1474
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:13,000
It's been fun.

1475
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:14,000
Yeah.

1476
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:20,000
You've you know, when there's a brand to a paid shill, I've been observing a lot

1477
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:25,000
and how much Cosmos people see when you make money and they missed out after you told them.

1478
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,000
It's been quite hilarious.

1479
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,000
Well, that's a that's a guaranteed follow.

1480
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:34,000
Isn't it when you tell people that they missed out on making money because you made it and they didn't.

1481
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:44,000
It's literally it's been like a week and a half and we're like this thing's like 10, 5 mil market cap.