I can watch some YouTube.
So it is.
Yeah.
Welcome to Game of Modes, a weekly podcast from Independent Validator Teams.
Hello, welcome to Game of Modes, a weekly podcast from Independent Validator Teams.
Um, uh, you said we'll be doing.
I mean, at this point, you could almost just stop at it at weekly podcast.
Yeah.
I mean, we're still all Validator Teams.
I mean, we are still Validators, yes.
But I mean, it would be just as valid if you went a weekly podcast.
It is technically.
Yeah.
I mean, whatever.
Um, so.
And what is an independent Validator Team?
I still don't really know what that is.
Well, we're not like Figment or somebody who's like propped up by dead loads of VC money.
Wait, are you saying if I accept VC money, the
money I have to exit the potto?
I mean, it means this is definitely banned from saying the second part.
I think we need to say.
No, let's say we can't take the second part off.
Yeah.
But it's kind of lying through it on the fucking, on the.
I mean, I'm still super confused as to how you can even get VC money for being a Validator,
given that you have nothing, your company has nothing to sell other than your delegations,
which can go up as well as down.
Like, do they have a token?
They can sell a token.
I guess it must be like the scam must be that VCs want to invest in Validator company,
like big ones, so they can get that Validator Team a big delegation from a chain that they
invest in and then they're making money at both ends.
Even, even if the chain goes to zero, they'll make money in the interim, I guess.
So do you think, do you think then when they're investing in them, they're like, like investing
in a traditional sense and then taking part of the revenue?
I would guess so.
Yeah.
I would be very surprised if those real big Validator shops don't have some kind of a
revenue share agreement with their investors.
Because, well, I mean, like, you know, if they don't, my big question is why do they,
why do they need investors?
Like why, why do they, is it for runway?
Like how, you know, how many fucking people do they have working for them?
That they need that much runway?
I can certainly see some investors.
Like there's a couple of products that I've wanted to build where, like, it might take
me a year to build it, right?
And it would like prop up the Validator business.
But how does it enhance?
Like, is it going to have a significant return?
Is it going to improve your business that much that you're going to have a significant
return on that money?
Like if a VC handed me tomorrow $3 million and said, here, make your business better,
I'd be like, I can give you $1.
I can't, well, either.
It doesn't matter.
It was a made up number.
But I mean, I could not extract more value out of my business with an extra $3 million
of...
Yeah, I like money, though.
Of capital.
Like, you know, a capital injection for me would do fucking nothing except for like,
let me be able to sleep at night when I just offload that work to someone else.
I wonder what, like, what are the actual stipulations on taking cash, right?
Like if they give you $3 million, what's the stuff you from being like, and $1 million
is being dispersed to me?
Can you do that?
I assume not, right?
No, because it goes to the company, right?
You're not the company.
Right.
You could just take a dividend.
Yeah.
Well, it's not income either.
But like, a capital raising is when you sell part of the company and it's not income.
Like if you distributed a dividend, you'd have to distribute it back to the person you
get it back.
You just didn't have a problem, yeah.
Yeah.
You could pay yourself directus fees, but you'd have to get...
You'd have to take a vote.
I mean, if you're like, got the biggest share, then you win anyway.
So...
Yeah.
So yes, you could.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
It looks like you had a $3 million directus fee this year.
And I was 90% holder.
So that means I get.
It doesn't go with that.
If all you're doing is expanding to expand, it feels like a very, very strange reason
to raise capital really.
I know some of the big valve shops are big, like big, big, big.
Like I don't know if they must have reduced in size, whatever we are now, 18 months into
a bear market.
But like chorus one has like 80 staff or something crazy.
Like of which like maybe 40 were technical.
Jesus Christ.
I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that in Gateway.
Gateway Conf last year.
And 80 staff.
Who was it?
Someone the other day told me they had fucking 60 devs.
And I was like, are you fucking serious?
60 devs.
60 devs in which country?
Oh, well, I think it was India, but...
Right.
Like that's a lot.
60 devs in the valley, isn't it?
That's a lot of mouths and feet though.
I mean, it probably just is effective, like whether you're in the valley or India, it doesn't
really matter as long as you can do the typing right.
As long as you hit the right buttons.
A little reductive.
I will just say this is no shade on the developers themselves, but the process is almost always
broken for either near or far show outsourcing.
And I make quite a bit of consultancy dollar ado every year by going into organizations,
doing an audit and discovering that the problem is the...
Essentially it's not even about quality of developers.
It's just about if you have people around the same desk, virtual or real, in the same
country, in the same time zone, productivity is higher.
I've never seen a situation where that wasn't the case.
And your management team is usually in...
Well, obviously there are a lot of career Japanese, et cetera, start up.
So not in this space anyway.
So it's not just Europe, America, Oceana, et cetera.
But there is an element of that, I think.
Yeah.
Ben Davis says you could get into the active set on something profitable.
I mean, yes.
But then you would also have to hold that risk of the particular coin.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe I can get it again.
Like if there are some chains that are totally big balls where there's loads of investor
money sloshing around and how you get in is by having the same investors.
I mean, look at...
Do I have a DYDX is like that, right?
They have the 41% centralized...
Oh, yeah.
Like I could spend $3 million on DYDX coin, but then I would have spent $3 million on
DYDX coin.
No, no, no, that's what I mean.
The investors have $3 million worth of DYDX coin.
They stake it to your validator.
Yeah, but that's not the same as investing in your company.
Well, it kind of is.
Like it means that you're in the set on a bunch of chains and you have a very stable
delegation.
Yeah, but that's a partnership.
That's not a direct...
No, no, but what I mean is they also invest in your companies.
They give you money to hire people and then they go invest in DYDX.
They get a bunch of tokens.
They stake it to your validator.
And then they also say to the DYDX foundation or whoever, like, I mean, it could be an insurance.
There isn't one.
They just go, yo, hey, you guys also give a delegation to our boys here because we're
also investing them.
And then the whole fucking, you know, the whole thing continues.
That's been really, really interesting actually with the DYDX chain is the foundation doesn't
do any delegation of any kind.
There is like no big foundation or DAO or anything that does any of that.
They just like, they got tokens.
They just don't use them for staking.
So that'd be interesting.
I mean, I would have thought as the DAO, they would want to use their treasury to like gain
a stable income for the DAO.
But maybe that's later on.
They'll think about that.
Is it just that for a lot of these, these orgs, once they've, once they've listed on
an exchange and they can start liquidating?
Yeah, you know, yeah, but I mean, then you have, then you diminish your capital.
Whereas if you had a stake, you'd be earning some of those trading fees.
Even if you just staked enough to get the amount that you need to cover off your operating
expenses, at least then you're not diminishing the capital of a DAO or even if you wanted
to build a war chest so you could actually, you know, if something happened and you needed
to bring on 10 more devs for six months, you could, without having to liquidate your capital.
More typing required, you mean?
Yeah, if you needed more typists.
If you needed more fucking typing.
So cause less harm in the chat was just reflecting with the amusement on the fact that for now
developers equals typing.
That's that.
I mean, that is what they do.
They type.
I wish I had prepared in advance the clip from Garth Marengi where he's talking about
writing horror novels and he says, I just hit the keys and the letters come out and getting
them in the right order.
That's the difficult best.
That's the key.
I was like, that is so relatable to so many things in life.
Cause less harm also says that most VCs have terms on how the capital is used.
That makes more sense.
You obviously know it's more than us.
Yeah.
Maybe cause less harm should be happy.
I think the last startup I worked for it was like very explicitly.
They raise.
No Lambos.
No subway.
Well, I think that from memory, like the, what's it called the founders, like the CTO
and CEO basically or COO, whatever, you know, all these Cs.
Order, they, they didn't, they, I think they basically have to take, take minimum wage
during the period, the runoff period of the investment, like the two years that they were
given runway for.
And the money like was stipulated to be for like hiring, hiring devs, hiring devs, hiring
a sales team.
That was like the condition of getting the, the fund raise.
So as a director, I am on minimum wage.
Yeah, but that's for tax efficiency because you got, you know, have you sorted out your
accountants yet?
Found new ones?
Yeah.
I've had that sorted for years now.
I just did my tax the other day.
It took two days.
Oh, I mean, it's easy to do your taxes when you're not making money, isn't it?
I've noticed that.
We, last financial year, we got money back from the government.
We just did it the other day and I got money back from the government.
Can you believe it?
We have like, we got that during one of the VAT periods because of the amount we spent
on AWS.
Like we spent so much money like with sales tax on AWS services that it was like we did
the maths of everything that we owed for the AT for sales.
It was very much now like, well, we owe you quite a bit of money because you guys have
spunked it all on on EKS clusters.
We get the same thing every, well, every month we get money back from, we call it GST, but
it's similar VAT because all of our costs in Australia, we deal with all mostly Australian
companies and most of the overseas companies charges GST as well, the bigger companies.
But none of the income we make as GST.
So because they're all overseas companies, we can't charge GST to overseas companies.
So basically every month we get all of our GST back, but don't pay any because we're
not charging any.
We, one of the things that really caused us problems back in the day with like the name
service and whatnot was that if you sell NFTs, you have to charge sales tax and you have
to establish technically like what country.
So if you know they're not in a country where you have to charge sales tax, you don't have
to charge sales tax.
But if you don't know, because for example, you're on a blockchain, you, and it's just
loads of nons with wallets, you have to basically do a best estimate.
And they're quite on it about this stuff.
So in the end, we basically just had to say like, we honestly don't know except that the
vast majority is not in the UK.
So we're just going to have to write in the larger percentage of it.
I can't remember what percentage it was high.
We assume it's from Ireland.
So like our sales return is like in absence of any other evidence, we sell a lot of NFTs
in Ireland and therefore have to pay sales tax because, you know, it's back to the like,
it's better to overpay than it is to get caught with your pants down.
But it, you know, it was like, it's like 20% of every sale, right?
So like,
I'm still I'm stuck.
Did you say that you have to pay sales tax?
We have to charge sales tax on an NFT.
Yep.
So this is the thing like, which was quite funny, like, you know, when we did the name
service thing, they were like, any number of DJs coming up in the chat being like, you
guys are like printing millions of dollars, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And also it was nowhere near that amount.
But the it was like, no, no, it was the first of all, we're not putting anywhere near that
amount.
But also second of all, straight off the bat, 20% of every sale is going to the government.
And also, and I think this is something that people weren't necessarily aware of.
But I think especially at that point, it probably drove some of the price action with Juno to
a lesser or greater extent, because it was so early in the chain, but 25% of every sale
was burnt, of the Juno paid.
So there was at least in the first few days, there were a lot of minutes, right?
I actually don't know, maybe a couple of thousands, something like that.
But that was like a non-trivial amount of Juno, right?
But like a huge, well, huge proportionate quarter of it got burnt or whatever, maybe
the quarter or third, I can't remember.
Wait, why did it get burnt?
Because in hindsight, we should have just not done that and just pocketed the cash as
a business, right?
Because why not?
But at the time, obviously working very, very closely with the core team and whatnot, it
was like, well, this is kind of giving something back to early stakers because it's going to
move, if the project's successful, it's going to move the price, right?
And you can never know whether it did have an impact or not.
I think it was very early in the chain, but maybe it did.
Hard to say.
Okay.
So part of the contract was 25% of all Juno went into the staking module.
Is that what you're saying?
No, no.
So this was the smart contracts for the name service.
Like when you minted an NFT, it just burnt part of the fee.
Straight up.
Okay, so you meant it literally, okay.
Got it.
So you were being figurative and hyperbole, which I'm all about hyperbole.
I will stand behind the fish getting bigger every story.
But no, you were being literal.
Okay, got it.
So were you having to pay tax on that 25% that was getting burned?
No.
So we were paying tax on the 75% that remained.
So we paid 20% tax on that and then 19% corporation tax on top of that.
Is that of the pre 20% amount or the post 20% amount?
Pre-sales tax or post sales tax?
Post sales tax.
Yeah.
So you calculated it at the end of your corporation tax.
So all up about 33% or something like that.
So yeah, so straight off the bat, it would have been like 25% of the original number
and then 33% of the remaining numbers.
So whatever that is, just a math manorts, but I would guess all up about 40% maybe more
of the mint cost evaporated into the ether somewhere.
But the moral of that story, by the way, for business people listening to the podcast is,
you know, burning tokens is cool, but putting tokens on your balance sheet might be a smarter
bet.
So don't cave to community pressure and restake loads of the income because this was long
before we had any decent accountancy on this.
So what we didn't realize, and I've mentioned this before on the poddo is that like the
second you receive it, you pay tax on it at that price.
So we had a huge tax bill for Juno at peak because that was around when the thing was
launched.
And then by the time we actually did anything with the tokens, restakes and sold them, it
was just like it was a massive pain in terms of the accounting.
And we also like we restaked a lot and then had to pay, we were like restaking X amount,
we were paying the tax on double that.
And of course, all those tokens are worthless now.
So yeah, lesson learned, right?
And don't forget, dear listeners, that validators are the biggest DGENs.
So it's true.
It is to be fair, that is actually the other lesson is that is that validators masquerade
as businesses, but in fact, I've noticed that sometimes you know, when you go to like a
tech meter up of some kind where it's like not really Web 3 and you meet the other founder,
right?
And we'll, I certainly think of my risk tolerance is relatively low for this space.
And then you talk to somebody who doesn't work in the space and you're like, oh yeah,
no, we're all G-Juns.
We're complete and have to D-Juns.
Hey, Uncle Devin.
Hey.
What's up?
Do you have those cigarettes?
I am, my phone's lower is yours high.
That's good.
I think it's just good diction probably.
Yeah.
Not a dick dick.
I need a mic that filters out mumbling.
Minor yours.
Mine.
What does cause less harm do?
Well, don't dox him, but is he a dev?
Seems butt hurt by my typist content.
He just said he's not a dev.
So I would guess not.
No, he's not a typist.
He said, forgive the spelling mistakes.
Period.
Not a dev.
Yeah.
So we're continually carrying on the joke of I said that devs are typists.
Words are hard on the internet.
So he's saying he's not a dev.
He's not a typist.
That's why he's spelling shit.
Got it.
All right.
This is, this is a deep, deep plot.
But like, what do I, what do I take from that is that he's butt hurt.
So potentially a dev.
I don't know.
We'll find out.
I don't mean any, I meant nothing about my typist comment.
All right.
It's just what came out.
It's just what happened.
So who wants to do the drill to it for the week?
Oh, Uncle Dad, he's late.
I'll take it.
Okay.
You ready?
Yeah.
What are we doing?
About there.
It's kind of a tough guy.
You're going to take into account the delay.
Yeah, I know.
Left and left and right.
Left or right.
Left halfway.
This one genuinely is the most nonsense clone on both pages.
I'm sorry.
Are you going in on me?
Am I being gone in upon just for posting my time tested opinions about girls holding
forks incorrectly?
I can pick them.
What category was this?
Tough guys.
What category?
Okay.
So this is actually a very good page.
I'm just going to read a couple more from the page.
Just going to break the format a little bit to show you how you manage to.
Hang on.
Was that last one constituted as a very good one as well?
No.
Okay.
So the one below it says, go ahead, keep screaming, shut the fuck up at me.
It only makes my opinions worse.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
A man does a wheelie past you on a motorcycle.
The back of his jacket says, take down the fucking posts.
There's a lot of good ones here.
Everyone loves dank Woolies is the thing.
Like anytime you see a squid going down the road, you just know something good's going
to happen.
I love the name of honor more than I fear death.
Me to my boss after he found a picture of me with a big shit stain on my sweatpants.
There's some good ones on there.
Anyway, I've taken my shirt off over 10 million times.
Right.
I feel like you could just sit there and read that book one after the like just, you know,
he used to be in our bathroom and it was always told to take it away because it was distracting.
We also had a copy of a couple of copies of a very niche publication for all the Glaswegians
out there called the digger, which is essentially like, it's like a totally insane.
How would you even describe the digger?
It's kind of like court transcripts from the Glaswegian organized crime underworld, but
it's like written by presumably one guy who's like a hysterical kind of moralist, but also
kind of morbidly obsessed with the organized crime.
Like so it's all done in publisher, Microsoft publisher.
And the template is so lazily done that sometimes the words just go off one page and onto the
next page and just go straight into the title on the next page and then just continue.
Like it's really poorly done.
It's just this kind of hysterical stream of thought about everything that's happened in
criminality in Glasgow with like a really intense energy, but also like everybody in the criminal
underworld reads it because they get kind of shout outs for their infamy.
But the tone of it is like, we should fucking shooting is too good for these people.
It's just like one of the most insane things that you will ever see in your life.
And the best bit is there's a letters page right at the back, right?
And people right in in Glasgow dialect like to threaten each other and shit.
They like read something in the digger and they're just like, oh, fucking, you said this
about me.
I'm going to come around your house.
I'm going to kill you.
And there's there's a statement at the bottom of the page where it says like, if you're going
to submit anything to the digger, you have to provide your full name and like contact
number so that if other people are slandered, they could respond to you with legal action.
And it's just all of these like absolute nut jobs like just threatening each other on
the back page, but like in full eye dialect.
So just like completely dense and incomprehensible.
It's amazing.
And also kind of disturbing, but also amazing.
It's an acquired taste of the point that I've been thrown out of a news agent in Glasgow
for asking for a copy of the digger.
I was like, can I get a four pack copy of the digger?
And they're like, it's not a kind of fucking place.
Get out.
Like, okay, what I miss nothing.
Okay.
I called the abster.
I have food poisoning.
So I've been in a terrible state.
We're already like, we're what four days or something away from the end of the Apto stress
now, which has been really, really stressful.
And then also getting this level of ill.
I mean, I think I could summarize my current mood as this action, please.
Classic, classic drunk, drunk tired, elderly as well.
That's where that's where I am right now.
Where did you queue up all of these little video snippets?
He's laying in bed.
No, I haven't.
Yeah.
Today's been bad.
What's that?
What's Ken Brock's old YouTube thing?
The Hoonigan Hoonigan Hoonigan Hoonigan Hoonigan.
Yeah.
They do that in their videos all the time.
They have like, is it all snippets of like, you know, TV shows and stuff.
I reckon the Friday great editor for them.
I don't know if this after seeing is actually going to end on time.
I have a feeling it's going to go into extra things to extra time.
I'm not too far broken because I just paid all the bills, like two days ago.
So I was just kind of fuming that there's going to be a month of the machines doing absolutely nothing.
So as far as I'm concerned, it can go towards like December 10th or so.
I have totally satisfied.
I have one ending on the 18th on Saturday.
So I'm trying to think if I can, that's, that's when it gets shut off on the end of the 18th.
I was like, well, we done by Saturday, maybe.
If it's one of the VFNs, you can just let it fail because they're failing anyway.
No, it's a, it's a valid air.
It's valid air.
No.
Our VFNs have just been total, total trash.
Yeah.
It's, well, I think that's VN, VFN, that's, it's validator full nodes.
So it's the full node, not the validator, but I think it's the validator full node, I guess code within that structure.
That's, I think they're looking at.
So yeah.
Well, the hard disks were like red hot as well.
Like when we, yeah, going to like 60, one was like, one of the sensors was like 60 degrees down.
I was 79.
And I was, I was doing something else.
And then I actually had the one valid air that actually has done great during this sustained 25,000 TPS for 20 days.
And then it just, they just finished up.
It just stopped literally, it just like, it just, it load went down to three.
And then it went, huh, it did that same thing that like the Orson Walls thing.
And then it just, I'm going to head out.
It's like, I'm going to head out.
I don't get head out.
So, and what I, what I was on three calls while it was happening, but I guess what, there's a, there's some sort of LVM bug that I guess are a MD, the MD array, a raid bug that, that I think for some reason after that, I think that for some reason, it was kind of like,
a raid bug that, that I think for some reason after a huge sustained load and you, that sounds filthy, but after a huge load and then after it, I guess the, I guess the raid tries to catch up or something.
And it goes into a hard deadlock.
And so Aptos would get stuck to one core.
Everything would take forever to write.
And the only way you really get out of it for me was to reboot it.
And it happened to somebody else we work with in the test net on the same architecture during this, during like the preview piece of it.
And it just, it, like literally, the thing was like dead.
And then I, I was trying to figure out the hell's going on and it took like a couple minutes to figure that and finally just rebooted the damn thing after like half an hour, then it's back and it's fine.
So it's a really weird, it's so anyway, I gotta get rid of these MD arrays, I think on these, on these things, but not for this stress net.
I mean, next time.
I mean, I think our learning is basically just massively to overspec both on disk size and on Ram, because as soon as we're doing fine to 13 k TPS 15 k TPS and then
In the validator in the, in the VFN, VFN, I don't think that's a fair.
Yeah, I don't think it's a fair thing right now because I think the VFNs are really kind of fucked on me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, both of ours bagged out and then, and then the one validator I had, which was doing well, I had pruning off and so the disk filled up and I was waiting until like last possible minute.
And then I finally had to kill it and try to have it state sync up in it and you can't state sync under load and this network doesn't work.
And so that thing basically was out for 24 hours out of that, but my other one was doing great.
Didn't drop a single one.
It was just cranking.
We have one of those right.
It shot the bed.
Like literally, yeah, it filled, even though pruning should have kicked in, it just filled the whole of a terabyte disk and then just shot the bed.
That's weird.
Yeah.
And you're just like, what the fuck?
Like, and I was looking at the configuration, it was like, there was nothing that should have allowed it to get that big.
Yeah.
But I think there must have been something to do with, so the memory was like maxed, like the RAM was totally maxed.
So even though there was, I don't know, there was like fuck or swap configured like 32 meg or something like some tiny amount.
There's got to be something happening there was spilling to disk or something because I just don't have a smoking gun for why the disk would fill up like that.
It was like, it wouldn't be swap.
It wouldn't be swap in that situation.
No, exactly.
But somehow the disk just filled up to like 98% and then RAM utilization was like, yeah, like 100%.
And it was completely locked up.
Like, you know, we want those, you know, when you know something's in trouble, when the monitoring drops off and you go check it out.
And then you have to say, John, and it takes ages to connect and then you connect and when you type, there's like a big gap.
That's what happened.
That's what, yeah.
That's not good.
Something bad has happened. Let's open H top and then H top takes like eight minutes to load.
You're like, okay, bad things are happening.
Yeah, it's like kind of good.
It's like an old, I want those teen slasher films when you enter the house and they've blood everywhere.
You're just like, oh dear, here we go again.
So I'm hoping we get a new version here.
Maybe tonight I heard or tomorrow or something.
And I think they're going to push through.
I don't know, like to our point before whether it's going to end on Friday, I'm not really sure.
But if they keep that timeline, I think that would be great to hold on to Friday because I have some machines on Saturday just by luck.
I think ours end tomorrow, unfortunately.
So we're going to have to renew for another month.
Yeah.
And they've not been, well, the epics have been really good.
The 7, 950s have been trash.
Well, I think, again, I think that might be more related to the VFN than the actual, because somebody, our friend of the show at Republic,
he's running one of his validators is on a 7, 950x and that thing does great.
Kicks ass.
Like does a really good job.
Actually, been in the Republic.
Yeah.
One of his two is on a 7, 950 because it passed.
So he's like, well, let's give it a shot because then he has the same thing I had, which is that 90, that big dog that we were talking about last week.
And that thing is done really, I mean, it's not okay, but it's not pretty poorly up until this last bill.
Like it is not executing the way that, like it's not executing the way that it should based on what's going on, which I assume is software, right?
Like not really.
7, 950 you'd have a way faster clock speed there, right?
No, actually not that much more than these.
It does.
It's like 4, 4, 1 versus 3, 8 or something like that.
It's not as big as you think.
Yeah, it's not as well.
What is it up to though?
Is it like, I think this one boosts up to a look.
I would have thought it'd be up like 4800.
I can look really quick.
I know this is usually exciting topics.
The other thing that several people said was people who are racking their own nodes rather than relying on a third party provider were saying that the cooling was also a big, big issue.
Yeah, like sustained load.
Yeah, we've just purchased them straight off the shelf from Data Center provider.
And so I don't know what their setup for cooling is, but back to the...
Some of the others are doing all kinds of water cooling shit now.
Yeah, well, it's back to like the sensors when we look to the sensors on the box.
You know, fine, you don't know how accurate they are, but the fact that some of it's over 60, 70 degrees and that's not...
SSDs are always cooking.
Well, sure.
Well, no, not the validators one.
The fucking VFNs were.
The validators were chilling.
It wasn't even like a couple hundred meg right per second.
Like it wasn't...
I mean, it's a lot.
I mean, in the old days, it's a lot, but like compared to what these things can do, it's really not much.
70 plus degrees.
That is warm.
Yeah, but on NVMe, it's warm.
Yeah, but the other thing, like some of those you can just like, I do that and I've done it in situations where you just go into like LLM sensors and just force all the fans to 100.
Like don't even don't even let the temperature sensors work.
Just fucking jack them up.
Like jack every fan to 100 and just force it.
Yeah, like no fan curve.
Yeah, just just force them all to 100 at all times.
Like there's nothing wrong with that.
Because sometimes what you actually get is you get those fan curves.
Like you might be on an edge where it like the fans are constantly ramping up and ramping down.
And so you have this like wave that's going on with like, within NVMe spec, like temperatures and things like that.
And sometimes you just want to force it to 100 because you get more airflow and, you know, just kind of keep it.
Doesn't matter.
It's not you're not listening to it.
I was going to say, especially like on other people's hardware, it's not bad.
Yeah, especially for something like this.
It's for a couple of months.
Well, we just had to pay you another month as well.
When we really needed it for one more day.
So pure spite, I'm going to wreck fucking wreck this server.
So to answer your question on boost, no, this is a this epic is a 3264 with a base of 3.9 and a max boost of 4.3.
And the 7950X3D is a 1632 with a base of 4.2 with a with a boost up to 5.7.
So that's a pretty big difference within there.
But also, I mean, PCI lanes and all that kind of stuff is vastly different the size of the L2 cache.
And like, like that makes a difference.
But but you don't need shit loads of PCI lanes like here on the run.
You don't see where it's this days.
Well, we're in five.
But yeah, even with that, it's only one 16.
It's one, well, I guess it's one 16 plus a little bit more.
But yeah, some much.
Have you, have you seen the, the new fourth gen epic?
The the game.
Oh, the game.
Oh, see thing it's got 128 cores.
That is that's the same one is that's still 99X, right?
That's the same series as this.
Yeah.
Yeah, the bigger one.
Yeah, the one that the other one that we run is that 9474, which is six, which is 4896.
But those are the F's, which are like the really high clock speed ones.
The other ones are those other ones are just they're not like good for this type stuff.
No, they're like three triggers.
Yeah.
256 cores though.
Like that's, that's like a big fucking dinner on it too.
It's like huge.
But if you're running like vSphere or something like that, where you have like, you know,
a shitload of nodes that are running and sharing time and all that kind of stuff that would do really well.
Yeah.
Anyway, so I just had dual CPU on those bad boys.
But this, this test, I mean, the stress net to its, I guess it ran for what 25,000 sustained TPS, right?
24, 25 somewhere in there.
I think for what?
For like 30 hours, 28 hours?
I think they said it pumped in 2 billion transactions.
Yeah.
2 billion transactions is over 24 hours or whatever.
It was pretty cool.
Yeah.
I mean, and that was with like 25% of the network offline as well.
Yeah.
It was down to 70.
The lowest I saw was like 72 or something like that.
2 billion sends.
Woo.
I think, I don't know if they're all, were they all sends?
I thought it was pretty simple transactions though, wasn't it?
I don't think it was like.
I think there's some NFTs and things.
Yeah.
I don't remember what, I don't remember what Alden's or what they said Alden said about the, the transaction mix.
But we did see like our, I, I, we had about, I think 50 or they were sustaining about 50 or 60s requests a second on our VFNs.
So I guess at 20,000 there's seven, they must have been distributing that out to a ton of nodes to, to add it in.
What's the, what's the data growth on something like that?
It prunes pretty hard.
So I think the pruning on this is, was it 300 million versions?
What was that guys?
Do you know?
I think it was 300 million versions.
I think the, I think the desk utilization on the valve never got over about 300 gig.
Yeah.
It prunes pretty, it prunes and it's continuously pruning, right?
So every time, if you're getting 20,000 transactions a second, I think it's pruning that in the back end too, which was some of the issues I think they were showing on the VFN or on the, on the full notice is it wasn't pretty fast enough for the number of pruners and, and then this version also they moved from like straight file based storage to RocksDB and sharded RocksDB.
So there's like 16 separate RocksDB databases for each of these different data stores and they, they open them all up.
And so there's like a, so if you actually look at the number of concurrent writes and the processes that are writing, it's a really long process list because it's writing concurrently to all these different shards and then also printing across those shards as well.
They really are just pushing the limits of something nobody needs, right?
Yeah. Well, the interesting thing is that they got to like 18,000 in the last one. And so there's a lot of code changes required to add that additional four, four, five K, maybe six K extra transactions, which we've got 24 K was peak.
Like it's a huge amount of work to have added that additional TPS and still a lot of things have fallen over, you know.
Yeah, I show 27,000 as peak. That's pretty good.
That's pretty decent. Even if they are sent and like, you know, some men's and those types of things like that's per second, that's a lot of, that's a lot of defy.
I mean, never the Celestia, I was noticing, they picked it like 12 transactions per second.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I was also just totally brought to its knees with that.
Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, these are real transactions. Like it's not like that bullshit stuff that you saw in the SUI side, what they're saying.
It's like 600,000 or whatever the hell it was.
But yeah, it's a it's a big number and like, and like these things were humming, like they're doing pretty good too.
But well, 600 K is the is the number in the original NARWAL paper, isn't it? The NARWAL task paper.
So we mentioned on the bottle last week, but that's that's probably psychologically why Siri felt comfortable bullshitting their way to 600 K because
it might have been 100 K now that I'm thinking about it. In a very, very limited sense that has already been benchmarked in a kind of lab setting, but not in a production setting, I suppose.
So, yeah. Hey, Nold, to celebrate your lack of alcohol, I went out and picked up some specific. Oh, Penfolds, baby. Oh, is that Canungra Hill?
It is. Yeah. Absolutely. It's will.
I hate Shiraz too, but I bought it just for you. I saw it on the shelf. I was like, oh, look at, I mean, had such a goofy name.
I'm like, look at the Kunununu noon. Good nose in here.
And I was like, oh, I'm getting it just for you.
Can get angry.
I literally. I have.
I have.
15 dollar fucking podcast joke.
I only drink Shiraz, man. It's the best.
Do you?
Yeah.
I was trying to.
Shiraz is not bad.
Shiraz?
Shiraz.
What's that? We say it.
Shiraz.
That is up.
Sure.
Well, yeah, I mean, that's the other thing in my stable is beer, whiskey and Shiraz pussy.
The trifecta of gout.
I tried to get some stuff in there.
What was that trifecta of gout?
I knew a guy.
A guy that like a friend of mine and he he was a bit of a useless bloke kind of living
off mommy and daddy.
And you know, just like, you know, one of those people that's like, yeah, people need to get
a job and stuff.
And it was like, yeah, what do you do, man?
It's like, oh, I trade antiques.
And it was like, do you now?
And you live in the center of London.
You're like 23 and you trade antiques.
So in other words, mommy and daddy are propping up the party.
And that guy completely on this will not surprise anybody that's had even that slight bit of
intro.
That guy got gout.
One of my favorite stories was that he he bought he bought a like some fancy like Bavarian
cigarette case, silver cigarette case or something to resell.
She's like, oh, shit, it's super cheap.
What it is like even just the silver cost, it's massively cheaper than it should be.
It's collection only in like, okay, the city in Bavaria, I don't know, my German geography
is so hot.
So he got an easy jet flight over there when I picked it up, brought it home and then it's
just like, yeah, it's just kind of cool.
I'm going to keep it.
Oh, that's not really good business sense.
Yeah, exactly.
When validators are calling your business sense bad.
That's bad news.
Yeah.
Okay.
I guess you have a point.
On something like a little bit off off off topic.
Any of you boys a omniflicks validator, both of you both of you boys.
I'm not even talking to the fray.
It's one network.
Well, anything like strike you as a little bit fucking suspect last night with that.
What the whole thing upgrade.
Yeah, I mean, that was some shit.
But as soon as they hit the whole height, people were like upgraded.
I can't type and my fucking compiler is not that quick.
Like I had pre compiled my thing before the upgrade height, but someone typed in their
upgraded literally within five seconds of the whole height.
What's your point?
How is that possible?
Also, the network was running again in like no seconds.
Did it even stop?
It did stop.
Because I got I didn't even I even see that notification.
So I didn't see it until after I think it halted is really how I got notified about it.
But I was sitting here and it went like right away.
And as soon as I as soon as I actually ran that it started right away.
It was only been down like five minutes, right?
Which is like less than a minute.
No, it was.
Oh, well, I didn't even know actually because as soon as mine was starting, I was seeing
blocks.
So I actually thought that I might have pushed it over.
Well, no, well, it was going when as soon as I restarted my nodes.
So I had pre-compiled right.
So I watched my log.
I saw the halt.
You watched your log.
I watched my log.
I stopped.
I stopped the system D and then I like pasted the copy command that I'd pre-copied.
Right.
And then I started it again and the network was running.
So I'm thinking that it could have been a like upgrade in place thing.
I don't think it was state breaking because I think all those other nodes that didn't
upgrade were still running.
So maybe that maybe.
So in that case, there, the halt height wasn't really a halt height, right?
Cause not enough people cause I didn't even see it in the location.
It was very short, right?
I don't think it was a state breaking thing.
I think it must not have been because otherwise it wouldn't have, it wouldn't have started
that quickly.
Like it would have been impossible for 67% that on any network that would have happened within
that short of a time, right?
On a state state and change on a manual halt height non-governance.
Yeah.
Like a manual hold.
You'd expect it to take like six hours.
Yeah.
I was thinking to myself like how, how you could do it without having to wake up and get
out of bed.
And I came up with this process of how, how was it?
So you stop your node.
You copy the existing binary into a different place, not in your, your go bin or whatever.
Or you can leave it in probably in your go bin.
You compile the new node in just into the build directory, like without installing it.
Yeah.
Copy that across into the Cosmovisor directory where it needs to be.
Oh, hey.
And, and then manually start it, your node, right?
So in this, in this case, OmniFleek sub D start with the halt height flag and then the or
operator, the, the double pipe to then start the system D.
I think that would work.
So it had exit with a code one, once it hits the halt height and then it would hit your
system D start again, which would pick up the new binary.
Yeah.
You could work.
You could replace, I mean, you could replace the binary in place, even in the Cosmovisor
directory.
And it would replace the running binary.
The running binary is.
You can't replace the running binary in Cosmovisor.
Sure you can.
Well, you can.
You have to force it.
So I mean, normally when you do a normal copy of this, CP dash F, like you can force replace
that binary.
It doesn't replace the running actual binary.
Like, like the process is continuing to run.
Right.
If it goes back to the binary for something, maybe it fucks up, but I've, we've done this
before and other for some other reason.
And then when that thing, when that process restarts, it would, it would use the new one.
Yeah, but you need to be able to set a hold height that's not in your.
For sure.
Yeah.
So it says, I don't matter our manage.
God's even the comment says, I don't manage our OmniFleek snow, but it sounds like this
might be a case of restart always flag on the, on the unifile.
That's another issue too.
Cause like manual halftights doesn't do anything.
It does a binary, but usually system defires it right back up.
And so you end up moving past, we had that issue like every time, right?
Cause people just move right past it.
And so there's enough there.
It just moves right past the whole.
Well, it actually pushes through the hold height.
Like, yeah, it would just keep going.
Yeah.
Well, it doesn't keep going.
Yeah.
It pushes through and then it errors out and then, but it does sometimes advance round.
It does.
It would have it.
Yeah.
It does usually just keep breaking it and restarting.
Yeah.
But this is back to the, how you can end up with random teams stands and whatnot.
Well, no, I'm, well, as long as you know, fuck with the state file shouldn't.
That's why I just had it quite interesting that the network was back up so quick on a
manual.
Right.
My guess is actually to your point, it probably didn't halt.
Right.
You probably had 67% that continued forward.
And it was a non state breaking change that people randomly updated binaries throughout
there.
And who knows if even if the state is correct based on the updated binaries.
I mean, I just don't understand why they didn't just do a governance upgrade.
Yeah.
What was, do you know what, was this like a security thing or something?
Like, why does it even happen?
It must have been a security thing.
Yeah.
Some description.
Like, I didn't even really say they just said do this upgrade.
Right.
They've been a couple of late.
So maybe they realized they were still exposed.
Yeah.
I mean, it was like what 12 hours notice maybe less than a day.
I missed it.
I mean, I missed it until after the halt.
That's for sure.
When you got the notification notification.
Hey, do you remember I was telling you the other day's about the, that stalling problem
with my osmosis RPCs.
Yes.
And I made a script to just like constantly poll the, the height and then just restart
the system D if it gets stalled out.
That does not work so good around epoch.
Oh yes.
So we said it's sad at epoch and then you just, you just started rebooting it.
Yeah.
And then he keeps trying to do the epoch.
So, yeah.
So there was another four AM wake up this morning.
That's pretty funny.
Yeah.
But it, it's a, it was a simple change like in the, in the part of the statement that
actually does the restart.
So now it polls on one minute, but if it does a restart, it just waits five minutes before
it polls again.
So yeah, that was a, I mean, I didn't put any error handling in that at all.
It's like the dirtiest script, but it works sort of.
So that's, that's fun.
Um, crypto prices are crazy today.
It was like down, it was down 10% earlier like yesterday you're messaging me.
Party's over.
Everything's done.
Everything's like red.
It's all going down.
Yeah.
Today things are bouncing back a little bit.
Yeah.
Well, it's that they bang up that 20% right?
Is say performing or is it say is it 16 cents again?
Oh baby.
Yeah.
It was, it's up 25% this week.
The UIDX is $4, which is pretty crazy since.
So the word on the street is people think that that's because of validators buying.
I don't think that's small numbers, right?
Overall.
Yeah.
I mean, this, it's not like it's in the context of the liquidity of like D Y DX.
Less than a million dollars, right?
Easily.
So, so you're not like really pushing anything related to that market cap is huge over several
weeks as well.
Yeah.
But it is like, it's a, it's a pretty nice drive at the price.
Like I told you guys before, if all of the trading action was on V for my estimate is
about six bucks a token is what it's worth, but no financial advice.
We're good.
Yeah.
We're going to remind you of that every time.
But it's nice that, you know, ask D Janning to get into the validator set has like been
a reasonable investment thus far.
Yeah, which is, which is actually one of the reasons that I did it is, is because I, you
know, obviously just a little bit less risk with a, with a somewhat stable token that I
didn't think we actually would even have this much price movement.
Like I didn't really, I wasn't expecting anything to grow here.
I was hoping it wasn't going to turn into four cents, you know?
Yeah.
I wouldn't have expected like more than, you know, 20% price action.
Well, there's a, I mean, there's a lot over the, over the, I suppose this is up 30% this
week, Stargaze 50%, which is whatever small numbers, but whatever start, maybe 25%.
Maybe there's more people than we know watch this podcast and like everyone's buying on
my valuation.
It could be.
That's exactly what it is.
So what it is.
I'm sure that's what it is.
Yeah.
Cosney also says apparently circle benches invested in say we did see that as well, that
there was some sort of announcement from the say team that circle made an investment.
We were trying to find some news or information from circle related to that or any more details
of what that is, but we didn't really see much run.
There was certainly a one liner from the say Twitter account.
Right.
That's right.
With a, with a cool graphic.
So this was some time of the graphic.
Yeah.
It was like the circle balls and everything.
Yeah.
The hell is this?
No, it's not.
Investment was more than a graphic cost.
I know that.
Yeah.
Well, I must.
Well, maybe they just got someone really good at graphics.
So you just bang that out and.
I don't know.
I don't even know how you'd make that.
What about some news?
Have we covered any of the news with our rambling?
Oh, D Y DX enables trading.
Are we rich with that sweet, sweet centralized US DC yet?
So funny, funny about that.
The trading has commenced on the D Y DX.
You heard it here last folks.
Trading has commenced on D Y DX.
Believe the grand total of volume today is $20 last I checked.
Is that your $20?
Yeah, it wasn't mine yesterday.
It was a, it was like 25 grand yesterday or something like that.
Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's brand new.
It's fresh.
People still haven't really bridged that much across in the big scheme of things.
You also can use it in the US.
Yeah.
No US, right?
You can't do that in V three either.
Right.
You can.
I think you can.
I, I went and checked.
With the check.
I swear I tried it a while ago, but it wouldn't work, but I, there might be a while ago.
So when D Y DX was telling us to run nodes around the Asia region, because that's where
the customers are, I was skeptical.
I was like, really?
And you know, didn't quite believe that.
Yeah.
Um, that appears to be where the customers are looking at the traffic status.
Lots of Singapore, Japan, uh, yeah, type areas.
So that's pretty common and say too, like we've saw that, like we talked about the before
on a previous show and say launch too, that, that we were surprised about the amount of
like traffic coming out of Asia Pacific.
So, so that's moved a little bit for us.
Like now it's like balanced out a little bit more, but, but it was definitely very Asia
focused.
The, um, the traffic is definitely increasing on, um, D Y DX.
So, and that's a good sign.
People are coming over.
Um, but yeah, if I'm looking at like country, there are still like us, like the US is still
got traffic.
So I don't know.
It is very little though, like in the last 24 hours is like, it doesn't even show on
the country's list.
It's that, that little, but yeah, I think it's all for the UI and Hong Kong.
I'm suspect that the France traffic is a thoughts and some of that stuff in the US might be,
we've had this, I've seen this before too, where it's like, Oh, is Canada's probably
not blocked, right?
From, from D Y DX.
I don't know if it is or not.
I'm not seeing much traffic from those.
So like Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Australia, Russia.
We have seen like, uh, even though the residents are in those countries that they hit, uh,
either clough or end points or edge end points that might sit in the US.
And so sometimes I get registered there, even though their IP is coming from another country.
So you might, you might get some of that type of stuff too, um, which shows up in the stats
from clough or coming from countries that are just nearby where the actual user is not
initially where they're in.
Yeah.
But that's good.
I'm glad, I'm glad it's growing.
Um, I mean.
I think, oh, I think everybody, everybody who's a validator involved in D Y DX, I think
at least on the Cosmos side wants feed forward to grow quickly, right?
And you want users to migrate and you want them to take advantage of the lower costs
and you want them to move cash over and bring more stability to this validator set, especially
around validator number 45.
Um, and, uh,
Um,
45 on the list, number one in your hearts.
Yeah.
God, it is like, it's tough out there, man.
It is the, the, yeah.
I mean, there are whales coming in and just starting their own validators as well.
Sure.
Um, I think we've talked about before, right?
I think you're going to get Ethereum validators showing up.
You're going to get massive whales and D Y DX holders.
You're going to get, it's so easy to join this.
It's not like Ethereum, right?
It's so easy to join this set.
And if you're holding, yeah, you have, you hold the half a million D Y DX.
Right.
So I said, like this validator set, I think is going to change significantly.
I have to wonder though, like if you're a whale, is it really worth the hassle and the
like sleepless nights to run your own shit?
Like, even if you're paying someone to do it, like, is it really worth it?
Just for 5% or something?
There's no tombstone.
Maybe.
Yes.
I don't think, yeah.
That's the other thing is like, that's what we, we talked before in some other chain,
right?
Where people didn't understand like the slashing piece, like, like, like pure just standing
up nodes and they didn't realize it could get slashed or get tombstone or anything else.
But the, but don't, didn't you just get rid of that?
So D Y DX is reasonably safe.
Who, because there is no slashing amount yet.
Um, it's slashing zero, but I, in test net, the double sign was turned off.
I'm not sure if it's turned off on main net.
Yeah.
I didn't even know you could turn it off.
It is turned off.
Yes, it is turned off.
Oh, so like, so.
I mean, you use Horcrux.
Yeah, what the fuck, you just fucking YOLO at it and gives a shit, right?
Curious.
Fuck.
Seriously.
Who gives a shit?
I mean, it's just not even double sign.
Can't even submit.
Put on a raspberry pie and fuck it.
Cares can miss all the blocks you want.
Mail your raspberry pie to Japan.
Some of these big, some of these big, like the, the blocks misses on D Y DX is pretty
brutal on a lot of these upper nodes, like 72% active and things like that.
There's some shit numbers in there.
Yeah.
It's the, the, the uptime has been a little bit weird.
Like, I think the network center of mass is getting dragged around when, yeah, like
big, big delegations come and drop in.
All right.
So.
Yeah, we've actually held pretty, we've held pretty decent uptime even though, I mean,
we're in Singapore, but it seems like the mass is being dragged towards.
Take a guess Finland and West Germany.
I wonder why that could be.
I don't know.
Maybe $100 a month, 7950s.
But yeah, but we've still held pretty decent signature, like pretty decent signing.
But but yeah, like some of these numbers are pretty, pretty poor on some of these groups.
Pretty pit.
Well, I think the best, the best uptime I was seeing is from crows nest, right?
And they just got bumped out.
Yeah.
Someone redelegated, redelegated off them and they actually had the best uptime.
Who did they say they, the someone redelegated to is someone dumb.
I can't remember.
Someone dumb.
I think he was that firefly guy, the dry flyer, flyer, whatever it's called.
That's a really who's already got like all the fucking steak anyway.
That's number one, right?
Yeah.
That's a, I mean, that's clearly a civil, right?
There's three or four that are very similar named with like three words and no.
I don't think so.
They probably know each other, but I don't think it's a civil.
They like I was talking to some guys about it yesterday and apparently they do know
who the number one is.
They know those operators.
Yeah, they know.
All right.
That's good.
Yeah.
That's good.
I mean, that's very hearsay and conjecture, but it is.
I mean, they're all kind of similar in nature and structure and I don't know.
It seems a little shady, but whatever.
Totally legit.
DPOS man.
I guess they don't want to be like identifiable as someone if I don't know, like they're shit
or something.
I don't know who does.
Like, you know, we have, that's how we use our brand or I would like, look at us.
This is us here.
It's is our brand.
We're not shit.
And then like, I guess if you're just running one network, like maybe it doesn't matter
the dislike.
Yeah, who gives a shit?
We've got shit loads of token, we're going to go to the top anyway.
So who cares?
Right.
And there's no, people delegate with this call.
And there's no, there's no penalty for shit performance.
So who cares?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's like you build a system with loads of economic incentives to cover particular
education and you just take all of those away without replacing with anything.
And there are, you know, consequences side effects.
Yeah.
I was, this kind of, this is not on the news list, but we were talking, there's a friend
of the show and validator whisper node that we were talking about this, Rithik related
to Brendan put up a Twitter post, which I'll put in the show notes.
And I think she'll see you reply this on this as well.
And it was related to D Y DX and just Bretton and whisper nodes, kind of was it did not
give out large foundation deliations to validators and thus created a frenzy of competition
to remain in the set.
So I did personally funding operations by buying large amounts of D Y DX without rewards
at launch and little self pressure.
This seems to create high demand for D Y DX lead to an increase in price as teams scrambled
to buy more.
I think we said that we don't think this is validator focus.
I think this is just the larger marketing related to moving from V three to V four,
I think would create buy in, right?
And then value, value teams are getting kicked out of the set and frantically trying to find
ways to remain active.
I got several DMs from teams looking to form partnerships, AKA to delegate from their validators
to keep them active.
Everyone's, you know, have the cloud for the brand, which I agree with.
How do you think that would work?
I don't understand what they mean by partnership.
Also, you delegate to us and what?
Yeah, also, what the fuck?
Like from a legal perspective, from an accounting perspective, like there's a whole bunch of
unknowns there.
I mean, literally what you would do is, I mean, the only thing I understood that to
be would be, Hey, we have 20,000 D Y DX, we're gonna, we can't be in the set.
I'm going to delegate null to you, but I want that, I want that number and I want that commission
back.
That's basically what the email said.
That's what it would be.
Right.
Oh yeah.
Did you get the same thing?
She'll see.
Uh, yeah.
Let me go find it.
And I just said that that would give you your.
Yay.
In so many words.
Yeah.
It was by Futura Meridian.
Um, I had, I had those like an osmosis and early days and those types of things like,
Hey, you know, I have this.
This will help you, but I want, you know, and even it's 5% like who gives a shit.
Like it's fucking small numbers.
Like it's such a pain to ask.
And there's doing the math on that.
If I've failed my attempts to get in the, the set and the, and the fucking, and the
price is high, I'm selling them.
Yeah.
Allegedly to someone else like, you know, you shot, you shoot, you shot.
And if it doesn't work out, well, I mean, that's a serious, you have to seriously consider
whether you're going to still hang around with, with that investment.
Anyway, I mean, this, this idea, um, and this comment, I honestly just don't think.
They literally just fishing for delegations to try and stay in.
So yeah.
No, no, no, no, no, no, I mean, whoever these people are.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
They're like, yeah, they're trying to find ways to whatever, right?
Like work together or find some way, but you're truly not.
And honestly, I think this idea.
It's not sustainable either.
Like, like it's like you take a, it's like a kind of, um, you know, when you're trying
to buy something on eBay and people bid it up over the price of the thing new because
they all get carried away and you're like, fuck, have you done?
That's so dumb.
I think it's kind of a little bit like that frenzy.
Like we had a little bit of that in chain winter where people competing to stay in the
set, like the floor is lava and all that.
But, uh, it, it, it seems to be a.
It seems to me to be a weird thing to do in the current market because we just don't know
what will have momentum coming out of, uh, coming out of whenever this bear begins to
wind down.
And also like, I think the narrative of a lot of this stuff is like, it's essentially
get rich quick.
Let's not like fucking sugarcoat it.
I don't think most people give two fucks about DeFi other than you juggle some coins around
a tin and you get more coins out, you can sell them.
Like that's the utility, right?
Most people don't give a fuck about derivatives and it's not real demand, right?
So there, I think there's like a big question there about, um, I wrote in the, in the show
notes, real trans versus fake trends because I was rewatching the Sam Altman, um, you know,
good startups, uh, YouTube video.
And I was like, I was like, yeah, I think the real trends versus fake trends thing is
so pertinent for, for this space where you're like, the example he gives in his talk is
iPhone, iPhone jumps on top of trends that were in flight, right?
And it, it then launches an ecosystem of things like apps and, you know, all these things
that you can do via compute in your pocket, whereas like AR and VR have been very, very
slow to take off because there's a lot of interest in the industry, but there's not
a lot of interest from consumers because what people are actually trying to do with them
is like totally different, like in terms of level of essentialness to their day to day
life.
And that's like a lot of these chains to be honest, right?
Um, especially the DeFi ones.
So I mean, I mean, to Brendan's point here, I also think that at fundamental, fundamentally
teams don't give a shit on who validates for them.
Um, I think there's not much loyalty associated with this stuff, which I think is fine.
Like I think it's there, probably to be able to do that.
This is a, a, it's a vendor client relationship, but even in that perspective, they're not
even vendors that you're courting and doing those types of things away from like other
types of services, like you're doing private RPC or doing XYZ.
Like that's a more personal relationship.
You're like doing something.
So you want to support that.
So I think if you're a general validator, which a lot of us are in some of those types
of situations, they don't care.
Like they don't care.
And there's not much loyalty to that because their loyalty, their loyalty goes to end users,
their loyalty goes to investors.
There's a long list of loyalty and, and that idea that you provided some sort of infrastructure
and, you know, helped out in some sort of testing type of thing is pretty low on that
list.
Um, and then you can look at the delegator side.
The delegator side is very similar where like there might, there's some good brand, clearly
there's good brand recognition and, and, and delegates that are loyalty to specific brands.
If they're on those chains, I think they'll probably use them or like mix them into a,
into that thing.
But like, I mean, look at the set here.
I mean, you have like massive, you know, large scale validators.
Um, that maybe those are community delegates or maybe those are just all internal tokens,
but you have the figments of the world and those types of things that regardless of where,
where they end up, they're going to have a significant amount of delegates associated
to that.
So like, I understand Brandon's point here.
I also think that like you're just shouting into the wind.
Like I don't know who's coming to this.
There's somebody coming to this rescue, right?
Like those teams don't care.
Well, but also I don't think I think that for the, for the whole party to actually work,
I think the validators need to be fungible.
Like they really shouldn't be any favorites because, you know, if you've got uptime, you
got, if you're all your metrics are the same as the next company, you should be exchangeable
with one another.
That's like the basis of decentralization.
And I think what sticks in the core about the bigger validators that are backed by VCs
or whatever is that they are the least fungible.
They are not fungible.
And it is one of those things like foundation unlocks, like fucker inflation, you know,
bonds, you know, mix and whatnot that kind of is a little bit emperor's new clothes about,
you know, like you can say whatever you want about how you revolutionizing, revolutionizing
finance and this and that for the people or whatever.
But it's just shit here populism, like the technical implementation speaks volumes as
does who is actually, you know, a top, a top validator on that chain.
And that shows you whether or not it's theater, I suppose.
And I should say as well, like Robert just jumped in the chat and was like, Frey is sick.
Frey is very sick.
And that's why this is like, I think I sound even more negative than you just because I
am so fucking croaky.
But you definitely don't stand as regal with this fucking nasal like stuff.
On the related note, I actually genuinely as I exhausted, I'm going to fall asleep in
my chair.
So I am going to peace out and catch your lads later.
But I literally cannot, cannot stay awake for another 10 minutes.
You can stay away for 10 minutes.
Maybe.
Yeah, Dr. Frey.
I don't think it does anything if you flip me off.
I'm trying.
It doesn't work.
I think I have to look at the camera, right?
Is that how it doesn't work?
It doesn't work.
It is a MacBook thing, too, by the way.
It's not.
It's a MacBook Mac thing.
It's a Mac thing.
Yeah.
Oh, it's a Mac thing.
Yeah.
I'm a genius.
I'm a fucking one because you'll never see me again.
He's gone.
Wow.
Perfect.
That was that was perfect.
Oh, man.
To the comments, Ryan, funky, you prick.
Why did you could you know?
Get slash null.
I lost point zero, probably zero to Kujira.
Damn it.
Yeah.
I'm not afraid to say I fucked up there because I calculated the amount of signatures we could
miss wrong.
So as a validator with a lot of workloads, sometimes you need to prioritize the things
in your workload.
And I had a customer who was having a lot of we were having a lot of problems with an
RPC service.
And with their customers using that service, we prioritized trying to work with them to
find the problems and fix that service, which was not us, by the way.
It's a protocol level thing.
But we were concentrating on that and I knew that we were having missed signatures for
the for the Oracle on Kujira.
But I also thought that we could miss something like 270,000 of them.
However, it was more like 20,000.
So my bad.
Now I know I've fixed my monitoring to calculate this the missed slash percentage.
Sorry, the missed fraction percentage accurately now.
So lesson learned.
And yeah, it's going to cost me probably $100 to reimburse everybody.
So that was what that was.
There you go.
Hey, that was Oracle signing.
Is that what that was?
Yeah, it was Oracle.
So the way my monitoring works is for Oracle's I pull the slash window and I thought that
the slash window was like the and it makes more sense now that I have been slashed and
are going back and thinking about it.
I didn't realize there was like another parameter of like, you have to make a signature every
so many blocks.
It's 14 for Kujira or you know, out of that 274 blocks, there are, you know, divide that
by 14 or 274,000 divide that by 14.
That's the amount of blocks signatures there are in that time.
So when I was looking at my missed signatures of like, you know, 15,000, I was like, well,
I've got a month before I'm actually going to get slashed.
But you know, it was actually 15,000 of like 19,500.
So then then we were working on this other problem for days.
And I was missing all my sleep for days.
And then yeah, got slashed.
And I was like, had to investigate it further than to figure out why and that's, that's why.
So there was a bunch.
I think I saw there was a bunch of, it's a pretty tight slashing window on that.
It seems like for the for the Pego or whatever that.
No, no, not injecting.
So this is Kujira.
What's talking about?
Oh, okay.
Injective is fucking expensive if you get slashed, do not get slashed.
Same thing though, right?
Like maybe I thought it was same windows, but, but that's all Oracle slashing, right?
That you guys are worried about with Pego or whatever.
Pego is actually an orchestrator for a bridge.
It's not an Oracle.
Oh, but yeah.
So Pego is really like finicky.
And if you don't have your monitoring dialed, you're fucked.
So it's a bridges to like L twos and L ones and other ecosystems that you're somehow
Ethereum from Ethereum, basically.
Oh, it's all it's all Ethereum.
Yeah.
So the, the, the, the Damon though, like the Pego Damon, it, it, like, it, it just stalls
a lot.
Hmm.
So if you like restart your node that it's attached to, like sometimes it'll stall.
Sometimes it won't.
If the network has a problem, it'll like stall out after some retries.
If there's like any number of things where there's like a disconnection between it and
other processes.
Yeah.
It'll, it'll.
It'll break.
Hmm.
And so then you start missing, um, Nounce rounds.
Like you, you're missing, um, announced, like what do they call it?
Um, sure.
See there's like Valset announced and Nonsense.
Yeah.
Nonsense.
Yeah.
So there's, yeah, there's not Nonsense, Nonsense that you have to, uh, so there's a network
one and then there's one, like your own validated one.
If you're not caught up, if there's a lag between them, like you're, you're marching towards
the slashing.
So the way our, we don't, all those announcers and stuff, like for the Valset and that we
don't monitor, we only monitor our Nounce and the network Nounce.
And if they have a lag more than five, um, we get a very alert, very, very persistent
alert.
You know, shit.
Well, it's on a different, um, so our, our Pego alert is actually on a different channel
in, um, PagerDuty than everything else.
And it is persistent.
It like, it'll, it'll send you the message in the app and then it'll text, it'll call
somebody, somebody comes to your house and shit.
Yeah.
Because, um, I mean that, that is our highest risk, uh, element of our entire operation at
the moment is a slashing from.
Injective.
And it's amazing that that's tied to a service that is, is unstable, but not of your doing.
Oh yeah.
We have it on, it's in restarts just so that if it does stop, then it'll just take itself
back on at some point.
Right.
Rather just restart every hour and fuck with it.
Oh yeah.
Like why, like why fuck with it, right?
Just restart every hour.
Who gives a shit?
Like you'd rather, rather do more poorly on, on those types of things and then deal with
a possible slash.
Literally exactly it.
Yes.
I mean that makes sense, right?
That kind of doesn't fix all of the problems though.
Like if you, if there's an actual problem with the RPC that it's attached to or something,
then it's not going to fix that.
But, but it does fix the stalling problem.
It doesn't replace monitoring.
Yeah.
We have monitoring as well, but if you restart your node, then you also have to restart Pego
with it, right?
And if you don't, then Pego starts missing.
So if the node happens to restart for whatever reason, like Cosmobis, like an upgrade, if
an upgrade happens, then Pego doesn't have to restart.
You have to do that manually, right?
And so if you just have a looping restart, then you just don't have to think about Pego
anymore so long as you have that node still operating.
Yeah, man, it makes sense.
The games we play baby.
So do you have that then on, do you use a system D timer for that or are you just got
the old, uh, cron tab?
Uh, I don't remember.
It's one of the two.
Yeah.
Probably cron.
If I had to guess.
That's pretty funny.
Ron baby.
I try not to use cron now.
I try to use like system D timers and, um, dirty, dirty scripts.
Uh, you know, I probably have 50 50.
Uh, oh, James, uh, just corrected me.
We are using system D for it for that runtime max.
Oh yeah.
Runtime max is a good example.
Yeah.
So runs two hours and it automatically kicks it off or whatever.
Yeah.
That's good.
So it's not a timer.
It's just runtime max in your system D management.
Yeah.
Uh, I can't keep up.
Uh, he's like, or, or cron, or cron job.
Okay.
Yeah.
It was interesting.
I just, I don't want to keep banging on about, um, dydx, but just some other, uh, interesting
and funny observations in dydx, uh, and other networks as well.
This is, this is not just the dydx.
Well, this particular observation, people who put little messages next to their validator
name, right?
Uh, so I saw one in here.
I don't think they're in the active set, but I saw one in here, um, that has their validator
name and then they've got, and then they've got, um, 100% slashing refund when there's
no, when there's no slashing.
And then they've got, um, auto compound when there's no warthee.
So that's, uh, you're forgetting one of them.
You're forgetting the 0% commission guy, even though.
Yeah.
The 0% commission with a minimum 5.5% commission.
It's a fucking sewer.
Like that is shit that, that is shit that the team should fucking stand up on.
Like, yeah, but I mean, how, how, what are you going to do?
And it's like, like there's, those should be like those delegations should come out
that, that anyway, there's, there's lots of ways to be able to do that.
Right.
Like there's even reaching out.
There's, there's personal communication related to that.
Like it's, it's dishonest.
So either you're going to support, like this is a small validator set.
There's only 60 individuals.
So either you're going to protect your delegates or you're going to sit in your hand and say,
this is permissionless.
Yeah.
It's permissionless, but you have fucking power to like fix this problem.
And that is being, like you have 60 names in that set.
It's being decevious.
If you're going to sit in your hands and do nothing, then like, what the hell is that?
You're not even protecting your, you're not protecting people who hold the token.
And I think that's a bunch of bullshit.
Yeah.
Right.
Like I know that's permissionless, but like you, they do have, there's clearly powers
that they have and to be able to do this on with that.
Really what you're saying is we need strive, strive to come in and save us.
That's what you're saying.
Yeah.
We need as a third party policing to reduce the 60 down to maybe how, what do we say,
32 validator sound good to you guys?
That sounds like a lot to me.
Maybe 16 validators.
Let's get down to 16 validators.
And let's make sure that, that the same eight are in there at least.
Wow.
Top eight across the, the whole week.
Yeah.
Another thing that was surprising to me is stake Cito is not in the active set.
They were.
I thought they were pretty high up there.
He just was.
No, he's like, what?
He was.
He was like pretty high actually.
Well, maybe he's got two.
Does he have two?
I would hope not.
Oh, you're just looking at who got kicked out.
Are you looking at the, at the boot list?
I was just looking at the inactive list.
Yeah.
He's not in them.
He's not in the active list.
That's weird.
Right.
I thought they worked.
They get, maybe they get jailed and something.
No, I didn't get jailed.
Oh, hey, we're down one.
We're down 46.
So if you look at, if you're going to stake a D Y DX validators, don't use 45.
That's Lugan nodes, which very low respect for.
So try to go to one more.
You're right.
I said one more down the list.
Go one more down the list.
Yeah, I swear.
Oh, a 41's in this list now too.
They're going to move up fast.
Yeah.
So look at 55.
55 also needs a little bit of help.
We could use a little bit of love and attention.
Oh, you guys are side by side 55 and six?
No, or 46.
Yeah.
We're 46.
Give, give Schultz the, the delegate first.
He needs to keep it away from us a little bit.
Yeah.
So let's see.
Oh, we have a Nakamoto of two and what four validators own the governance structure and
the whole chain of which are unidentified and two of which don't vote.
So that's interesting.
That's great.
Very cool.
It should be great.
Imagine if they just turned on the.
Turn on where the fuck they want.
Yeah.
Where's our, where's our, where's our Tara.de boys?
Where aren't they spamming this shit?
They not figure out that the D Y DX is a cosmos chain yet.
Who's Tara.de?
The fucking, the fucking spammers that keep putting up bullshit proposals on every guy
in the cosmos.
The hardest working team in all the cosmos.
What's that?
I didn't, I didn't, I'm a Tara.de.
I've never looked at it.
Tara V2, Tara this, Tara that.
Like it's obviously something, right?
The airdrop spam problem with the diamond.
If I see the diamond, I just know a fetus so hard.
I don't even look at what's going on.
If you have an emoji in your props, I'd be a diamond.
I don't care what it is.
Stay away from the diamond everybody.
I'll tell you why they're not spamming it because the minimum deposit is 10,000 D Y DX.
Oh, is it?
If you want to lose 40 grand real quick.
No shit.
Is it, is it 10,000?
Yeah.
That doesn't fucking around.
That doesn't seem very.
They're like, if you're not rich, you can fuck off.
That doesn't seem very permissionless to me.
It's a bit high, isn't it?
For a cosmos?
You don't have a lazy 40 grand usurper, you can't make a good decision.
Clearly.
I love when everybody argues about what like, I think what was Stargaze or something that
bumped it up and it was, it went from like $150 to 500.
Everybody freaked out that was totally non-commit.
Like it wasn't.
Yeah.
It was like, it was not, it was, everybody hates the community and like, you know, bad
governance and all this kind of shit.
40,000 is pretty up there.
It is.
Yeah, it's a long way up there.
And Figment's running at 10% flash cat at 6%.
Look at this shit.
Figment not messing around, man.
Yeah.
Figment's like.
Fuck yinz.
Did you see they say validators?
Their commission is 33%.
What?
Amazing.
And they're ranked.
Google three or something.
That's amazing.
But they, they must be investors in these chains, right?
So I asked the team, I said, what, what about this 33% and they, I think they are their
own tokens.
I don't think the team can do anything.
They have 500,000 tokens in their commission pool right now.
Wow.
Yeah.
They don't, they don't pull very often.
I saw that too.
Are you talking about say or where?
Yeah.
They, they vary really.
I have seen that too where like they'll have large amounts coming in and then like
they'll sit on it and not really do anything.
So which is always interesting to me.
So I don't think they have like a foundation delegation.
I think it's all their own customers.
Unsafe.
Yeah.
But I mean, if it's their own customers, like their own VCs, you know, big institutionals,
they are fleecing the fuck out of them.
I assume that's what this is, right?
Like this is like, I know they had like large scale investment coming in.
So this must be using VC investment, which I don't know why you would have to be a figment
shareholder to be able to do that.
Cause you could just take those and stake them yourself, I guess.
But I guess, you know, those extra fleecing rewards, right?
Like you can't just lose 33% to anyone.
You have to choose who you lose 33% to.
That's right.
That is, that's right.
I ain't right.
You can't just pick a 5% validator.
You have to purposefully lose 33% and then stake yourself with a 10% validator.
Yeah, exactly.
And then not pull rewards and just let them sit there.
They're learning nothing.
Let them sit there.
Oh, God.
We're in the wrong fucking business.
I'm wondering if during the daylight savings, we should change our showtime.
We seem to get more, at least two or three more viewers come in later, like an hour later.
What are you talking about?
We're doing pretty well.
10?
Yeah, it's like, that's what I'm saying.
We've got big numbers now that we're like near the end.
This is earlier for Shultz.
You know.
So, just want to click through these comments.
No, there's nothing worth talking about.
Oh, sorry.
Combiners.
Fucking hammer dropped.
Is there anything else in the news you want to talk about before we run out of time?
No.
I mean, thank you to those concerned in the comments.
Rama, I feel much better this week.
I was like, yeah, a bit of a fucking turd last week, but feel great this week.
We should have talked about the Cosmos Hub reducing inflation because that has been an
absolute shit storm.
SG1 has gone a lot of flak because they vote.