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Yeah, your mic's fucked.

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It's clearly fucked.

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You're fucked.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent validated teams.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, the most rapidly demonetized podcast on YouTube.

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And, yeah, we're like independent validates or whatever.

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You serve it as the editing for the podcast version.

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So I know this bit sounds much slicker on the playback than I ever do it live.

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I take out all the...

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You play the recording and then you just drop us right in it when something actually starts getting said.

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Yeah, I take all your rambling, I just kind of cut all that out.

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So usually, like we talk...

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It's like 22 minutes long.

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It's really...

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It's like one piece of toast or maybe two pieces of toast with exactly the right amount of butter and marmalade on them.

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I could tell that you're googling for the webpage word exist to look at the times right now.

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I could see it in your eyes.

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Is he right?

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Is he actually delete by amazing words?

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You're so professional.

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Oh, Mike sounds professional indeed.

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So we have a bunch...

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There's a bunch of news this week, there's a bunch of stuff going on.

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Main thing is our sponsorship of NFT Nashville, right?

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Yeah, this coming Saturday.

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The fourth, go look at it at...

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Why are you giving me...

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NFTNashville.io, sorry.

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It's coming this fourth.

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Our sponsor, even though our logo is not correct still, even though I brought it up like four times, that's okay.

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It doesn't matter.

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But yeah, it's out there.

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So we're talking about...

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I really wasn't planning... I'm the closest to this.

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I wasn't planning on going...

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By quite a long way.

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By a long way.

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And there's not really great directs for us there, but I was looking around.

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I might try to make a...

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I might try to get down there.

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There's both Shane and Jorge are coming up, which is pretty exciting.

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I haven't seen those guys in a couple of years, and so that would be nice to see everybody else at NFT Nashville.

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So show play, it's a really good event.

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And good sponsors, great town.

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It's only a day.

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I'm gonna try to see if I can do it.

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There is one great sponsor.

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One super great sponsor.

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Yeah.

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Agreed.

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I assume you're talking about Gelato?

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Yeah, Jalopy.

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Yeah, so we'll see what happens.

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Real S tier sponsor that we're competing with.

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So the Frey has brought back his Mariner jumper for another go.

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Still cold there, bud.

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This is what I wear from like...

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Because of the academia?

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Because of future Dr. Frey?

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I mean, okay.

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The great thing about this very not landing joke you're making is that you can go black.

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52 episodes to like this time last year or something, and you'll see this jumper come out on the podcast, which happens every week Wednesday.

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2100 UTC, Game of Nodes.

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Don't forget to like and subscribe.

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We have a corpus, a body of work at this point in all.

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Yeah, but you are always going to be the future Dr. Frey.

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No one's convinced that you weren't ever going to do a doctorate.

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Me? Maybe? I mean, okay.

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I think you serve as tagline of drink every time you hear PhD.

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I think that we need to actually...

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We need to institute that one because this is going to be a very long five years.

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It's already going to be a long five years because five years is a long time.

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I hate to tell you.

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To be honest, I think the future Dr. Frey is a lot less a beauty than the future.

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Dr. Frey is a lot less abusive to me than saying the Frey all the time.

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Well, the artist formerly known as Prince.

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Yeah, sure.

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Or the artist in the future known as Prince.

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I don't even know what's going on here. This will get a bit of a future armor.

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So, big week of yorping for everybody.

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Big week of yorping.

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The launches are the launches man. We got the DX and the Celestia and probably some other stuff that no one cares about.

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But yeah, the big ones everyone's been waiting for.

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Staking is going great.

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The people still have not realized to not just click the first thing in the list.

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So, I'm not sure how the Celestia one went because we're not validating there.

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But I can tell you in the in the DYDX launch, victory goes to those with platforms and easy one clicks with their thing at the top.

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Yeah, and Minsk and worse as well.

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Yeah, I can say maybe the staking UIs like Jan's Alex's one during App Chain Winter where just everybody just went, oh, that's an alternate staking UI.

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Bum bum bum bum bum mistake to their infra.

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Well, there's also the utmost one where what's his face got basically all the delegations because he's the only one who had the active staking interface.

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Well, he had, he actually had the ledger working on his.

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That was a was that imperative?

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No, that was.

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I had like the actual only working interface between Cosmos and ETH.

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I know exactly.

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It still exists, right?

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It's still out there.

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Yeah, it does.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I want to say his name is Jean Carlo something from his GitHub, but Jan's Alex was his handle.

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So, can we take a moment just to talk about this, this chorus one bridge interface?

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Yeah, I guess.

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So, so one of the first bridges to go up before any of the official bridge.

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So you understand that that, okay, to the listeners, you know, we're talking about stuff that we know about.

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So just a little bit of background.

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There is a bridge that's required to get your dydx from the Ethereum chain to the new dydx chain.

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Dydx is in their initial phase, their alpha phase, which is the staking phase.

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So basically they're trying to get people to bring across their dydx onto dydx chain so that they can, you know, get the staking happening on the chain and increase the security before they decide to put up the proposal to bring across and make live the trading platform, which is going to run concurrently with v4.

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So v4 and v3 are going to run concurrently. They'll have both trading platforms going until there's a clear winner and then they'll hopefully switch over to dydx chain in the future when everyone realizes that it's the best.

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Now, they are in the meantime, there was the launch phase, which was basically when a few validators bought up the chain and then the other validators had an opportunity to join the chain.

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And then the staking phase. So during the point between where the chain launched and when there were official bridge interface launched, a couple of validators had a bridging interface.

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So the bridging contracts are created by the dydx DAO or their, you know, sub-DAOs. And those contracts are vetted, they've been through the security rigmarole, but they're also open source and they are free for anybody to create a user interface for.

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So a couple of savvy validators created some bridging interfaces ready to go for launch, the ones with validators and money to spend on stuff like that.

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So what one of the validators did was create a bridging interface that to complete the bridge, you had to do a stake at the end. And basically they were the only validator that you could stake to for the bridge.

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So being one of two staking interfaces that were available, if anyone used that interface, then they were going to end up staked to that validator. And I don't know that it was highly used, but certainly used by some people and potentially some bigger wallets, which ended up with at one point, you know, that validator being at the top of the list with basically like a good chunk of the stake.

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So their argument was that, well, you can just delegate one token to us and then you can like delegate to other people with the rest of the bridged stuff. But you know, it was obvious that it was like the delegation staked to them.

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But now there's a competition, they thought of the thing, they did the thing, they made the money.

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No, it's, it's fucking underhanded though, like call it what it is, like that that interface does not state that until the third step. Like I didn't go through it. I didn't finish the transaction. I didn't see if it was actually two transactions either.

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So I didn't go through the whole thing. But when you actually go through that, it does state that it's a bridge, it does state that it that it's easy yada yada, blah, blah, blah. And the third thing it says, now after you do these two things, I think one was like enter the address maybe or you connect both wallets, I think is what you do.

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I don't know, or you just enter the, the, or if you enter the d I did, I forget exactly how it works. But then the third step basically it says, hey, we're going to bridge it, we're going to validate, we're going to bridge it and we're going to stake it.

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Now, whether that's one transaction, or multiple, I don't know, or if maybe we should, I could, I could run it if we want to run it.

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But I mean, there, there's a, I mean, min scan is a little bit screwed right now. But there is a significant number of small value, d y dx transactions, stake to that validator. So the question is, did they understand that number two, the unbunding period is 30 days, which is a little bit

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different than in other chains where, where I'm not sure if people come across like recognize that and I understood what that means and all that kind of stuff. And is there any other utility and d y dx other than staking? Like why would you hold it?

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At the moment, it's a staking phase. So the only thing you can do is stay.

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What else would you do with it?

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Nothing. It's the they're encouraging people to bring across their d y dx to secure the network.

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And then they're going to launch their services. Yeah. And then in the future, in the future, what would you do with it?

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So d y dx is a staking coin basically, it's a governance coin. You stake it to get the fees from trading. So you don't do anything with it. You stake it.

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You stake it.

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It's a passive income. It's like some passive income like QG. Yeah, it's an investment, I suppose, in the, in the chain.

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Whoa, investment. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Not financial advice. Wait, don't regulate. Don't regulate people with something, something, something.

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It's not an investment. We're going to be saying investment. We meant highly volatile shit coin.

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So at the moment, so at the moment, Cosmo station is the number one validator. And I suspect that that's because they're a more highly used platform.

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They've launched their, their bridge and they have their validator at the top.

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So who is the validator that front run the front run the interface then?

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Corus one.

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Corus one. And Mary, Mary had a more equitable interface. I don't believe you had to stake with their validator to be able to bridge it.

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So Corus one, Cosmo station or at the top, there's between the top three validators, there is like, what's that 3040, about 50% of the stake in the top three.

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I mean, the numbers are very low so far. The, the amount of state token is basically nothing.

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And other than the top few validators that appear to have delegations outside of the from, from, you know, users, the rest of the set, I'm pretty sure is all self stake by validators just desperately trying to stay in the active set.

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So we have self-stake.

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We're still staked about five grand and steadily going down the list. We're five grand.

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Hey, is that 5k dy dx tokens or Kanga bucks or us no, no, it's 5000 USD, probably more than that.

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About 2300 dy dx. I mean, I didn't want to, but it looks like we're going to have to invest more in the dy dx just to stay in this competitive list.

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So, you know, if any of you all are whales, come drop some number was number.

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There's 60 valves, there's 60 validators in the set and there is another 37 in the inactive.

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So, yeah, the floor is fucking lava right here. There's 60 in the set. There's 60 in the set. The floor right now is basically 1050 tokens, which is basically I think what you guys launched at Genesis, right?

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About $2,000.

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Sometimes I think it's about $2.40 something like that.

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So it's $1400.

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Yeah, it's something like that.

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So yeah, we did this game like we 10,000 dollar investment buy into secure your spot.

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So what happens if dy dx decide that the chain is not valuable and they sunset in a year?

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I dare say that there would be some sort of snapshot and then a bridge back into the area.

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Yeah, yeah, because yeah, because it's kind of interesting if like from just from a, just from an incentive perspective, like whether or not people are incentivized to move their tokens out of the ferium into

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to do.

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So there is actually, they just they just put it out to right there.

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They probably they probably are just marketing it as that so that normal users don't give a shit.

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We're calling it the ydx chain and they do have it seems some sort of staking incentive that there is it's not an inflation, but there is an admission of some kind because there is rewards accumulating.

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So staking rewards or just some kind of passive accumulation of something.

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No, no, no, it's it's a it's too big to be gas.

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So I do believe that they passed a vote at some point to have an incentive program during this staking phase, which is actually coming out of a, you know, treasury of some kind from somewhere.

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This is a little bit like Mars Mars did a similar thing, didn't it, like the first short period that was like an accelerated that was like a run in of staking and then some kind of change.

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I can't maybe maybe I've remembered that wrong.

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So the the draw card for D ydx is the is the trading fees.

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That's that's where the draw card is for the token and D ydx chain.

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And in the meantime, there is nothing. So I guess that this was a way of incentive people to use some of the treasury as staking rewards in the meantime to reward the people who were early adopters to bring across their stake.

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I think they're having you know, I don't think they're having a good reach to the D ydx token holders just yet getting them to bring across their tokens.

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So well, if you can't read yet, I don't know why they would write.

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Well, I mean, D ydx token does nothing for trading on Ethereum.

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Anyway, nothing's paired with that. Everything's paired with like usdc or whatever.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, or the D ydx token is basically just a governance token over there, I think.

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So, but it still has value.

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So I'm surprised that that has held, you know what I mean?

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Like if it's not part of a trading structure and there's like, and there's no rewards that are being distributed based off that.

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And if there is, you know, if those.

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Well, I don't know how it works on the Ethereum, but presumably it's a similar situation to the D ydx chain where there is a distribution to the token holders, I would assume, but I could be wrong.

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I haven't researched it at all.

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So yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.

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You're right. I do.

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I do see them reward there. I see about 1% actually is what I'm seeing both between reward and commission from when we bonded this, I guess, Friday or Thursday or something like that.

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So you're right. There is something showing up there.

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I don't know where that's coming from.

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And it's definitely too much to be a gas thing because there's only very few transactions going through.

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Yeah, like I mean, you're telling, I mean, honestly, the number, you can look at the number of trans, I mean, the number of transactions is still quite low, right?

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And the number of individual delegators is still extremely low.

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I mean, min scans reporting the Cosmos station is seven delegates, which I think is that could be, I'm not sure.

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Because stations balked at the moment.

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There would be a few hundred delegators, I would say.

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I don't know. I mean, I do see a lot of transaction hashes and the numbers there obviously don't necessarily line up with the delegators.

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So there's clearly a discrepancy there.

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And that might be an index job that's broken because of the fire or whatever the hell it was happening in the in the.

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Power.

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Yeah, no, it was Cosmos station.

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I think, yeah, I mean, they've only really had one delegation that's of any significance, which someone just dropped 150 grand on the well, $300,000 on that.

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Validated a bit.

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00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,000
Anyway, it'd be interesting to see how it pans out in the meantime.

201
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:57,000
It looks like we're going to be putting our treasury into trying to stay in the set, which, you know, there could be, I don't know, in token terms, whether that's a good investment.

202
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:08,000
But certainly, like trying to stay in this set, I think is a good investment for the long run, particularly like when when delegations actually start to flow into it.

203
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:14,000
So I also think that you're going to like right now, I think most of these names here minus a few are mostly Cosmos names.

204
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:22,000
Once you see that once you get like real large Ethereum validators looking at this and recognizing that and they have they have the assets that Cosmos validators do not have.

205
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,000
I think the set changes dramatically.

206
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:43,000
So we'll see of like that's really what happens in those type of situations when you have a large amount of Ethereum users using another chain, like something like this, like those you start getting the chain layers, you start getting like, you know, you start getting the much larger organizations that have 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 million under management.

207
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
And then you start seeing some some some movement in here.

208
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,000
You know what I mean?

209
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:53,000
So I don't think I don't think the set is going to end up like if you look two years from now, it's not it's not a typical Cosmos validator set.

210
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000
It might look at it from a VP percentage.

211
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,000
You might have a still very broken for VP percentage, which I would expect to have here.

212
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,000
But I think you'll have some very different names in here too.

213
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,000
Yeah, I think I think you're going to be pretty accurate there for the for the mid-term.

214
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,000
And even course one, I would put the course one in that in that in that list too, right?

215
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,000
They're they're definitely.

216
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:23,000
I think they definitely didn't get the traction they're expecting with their their state while they're they're bridging interface.

217
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:38,000
Yeah, it's it's a tall order to ask people to get something to get people to use some of this, not official and be, you know, something very new for the D Y DX token holders anyway.

218
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,000
So yeah, I'd be interested in this.

219
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000
It'd be interesting to see.

220
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Yeah.

221
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,000
Yeah, I think I mean, like you said before, like it's worthwhile probably trying to stay in the set, like what we're trying to do as well.

222
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,000
And it's an existing token.

223
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,000
It's not like we're throwing money out the window at something that has an extremely unfu uncertain future, right?

224
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:01,000
So the knowing that there is there's years here of history in terms of token price helps significantly.

225
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Like you're not just buying like something that's just getting minted, right?

226
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:10,000
So as far as as far as the D Y DX token is concerned, right?

227
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000
And so anyone listening, this is not financial advice.

228
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:19,000
This is just my back of the envelope bullshit that I did to decide whether I wanted to actually invest in the coin.

229
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
And I'm not telling anybody to go and invest in this coin.

230
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,000
It's just my musings, right?

231
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:39,000
So I did some back of the envelope shit and assuming that all of the token was on D Y DX chain and assuming that all of the current trading volume was on D Y DX chain, which you would not expect.

232
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:46,000
To happen for a good long time because of, you know, people have invested in bots and all that type of shit for V3.

233
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:52,000
So there's going to be some time for them to migrate over when they got them well good and ready.

234
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:59,000
But my back of the envelope fair value was based on those factors was about six bucks a token.

235
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:06,000
And that's in this bear ass market with pretty thin trading volume across the whole of crypto.

236
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:12,000
And the way I worked that out was basically taking the expected revenue, which is in a stable coin.

237
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:20,000
So it makes it a lot easier to actually make a calculation on and just predicting what the revenue per token would be.

238
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:28,000
And then what you would expect to pay for an asset in the real world, given that kind of return of about 10%.

239
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:35,000
So typically you would expect a return in the current market in the, you know, IRL probably less than that.

240
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Like somewhere between five and seven would be what an investor would be looking for on their capital at the moment, maybe up to 10.

241
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:52,000
But because of the risk that you would associate with having it in this ecosystem, I attributed just a little bit more risk to that.

242
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,000
So which you expect a higher return, higher risk.

243
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,000
So based on about 10% return, I came up with about six bucks a token.

244
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:08,000
But, you know, that's that's an ideal factors with everything operating on DYDX chain, which probably won't happen for a long time.

245
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:25,000
So but if you imagine in the future, like once the markets actually pick up and if the DYDX chain gains traction, then they could actually be, you know, like an argument for a much higher token price based on an increase in revenue from trading fees.

246
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,000
I do the same for Juneau.

247
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000
Do the same for Juneau.

248
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000
I want to hear that level of analysis on Juneau.

249
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
What's the target price?

250
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,000
Because we're up 107% this week.

251
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,000
I can't actually make, you know, an hour.

252
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
Is that a comm listing?

253
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,000
I don't know. Yeah, we'll get to that.

254
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:58,000
But so I'm like, you know, I do calculations in for investments in the traditional, you know, finance area like, you know, stocks and property and stuff, just to see if we want to do any kind of investment.

255
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:05,000
And I'll tell you what, man, it is fucking much easier IRL to come up with a capital value of something.

256
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:22,000
And DYDX is literally the only thing that I've been able to apply my IRL knowledge to actually come up with something that might represent what the value of that thing might be under certain conditions.

257
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,000
So it's, it's been great.

258
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,000
So even then it can still go to zero. I mean, it's like back to the...

259
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:36,000
It's like getting in as fucking crypto, like, you know, chain could fall apart, think we get hacked, there could be no adoption of the chain.

260
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,000
You know, it might be really hard to get people to coax people across from that Ethereum ecosystem.

261
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,000
So, you know, who knows what's going to happen with DYDX chain?

262
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Who knows what's going to happen with DYDX token?

263
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:54,000
But in any case, I done did some calculations and they don't look too terrible.

264
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Do not invest based off those calculations, please.

265
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Do not fucking invest based on anything we say.

266
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:08,000
DYOR, we do not provide any financial advice whatsoever.

267
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,000
This is the ramblings of mad people.

268
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,000
So take from it nothing.

269
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Take nothing from this.

270
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,000
Take nothing from this podcast.

271
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,000
It will not benefit you IRL at all.

272
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,000
So anyway, in the other launch was Celestia.

273
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,000
Now, I know nothing of Celestia.

274
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:36,000
I was looking at the test net at one point and then was distracted by shiny things elsewhere.

275
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,000
So, I don't know, either of you guys shed some light on what's going on over there.

276
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000
Shorty?

277
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,000
I know it's claimed to fame as modularity.

278
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:53,000
So, the way it's supposed to work is kind of like a,

279
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,000
anybody who knows anything is going to hate me for any way I describe this.

280
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:04,000
Think of it like a roll up for its own chain.

281
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,000
That's weird.

282
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,000
And then it uses other chains to create that data availability.

283
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:16,000
So, like, Kyve and Celestia would work hand in hand to create modular chains.

284
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,000
That's kind of the best I can describe it.

285
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,000
And I can't go into a night because I've only read through it like once or twice.

286
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,000
I think you're a little light as well.

287
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000
How was the launch situation?

288
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000
Let's get some info on the launch situation.

289
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,000
Like how did that?

290
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,000
Was it smooth?

291
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Was there any bullshit?

292
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,000
There's always bullshit.

293
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,000
It was actually quite smooth.

294
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000
It launched and things went.

295
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:48,000
So, wait, are any of us validating Celestia?

296
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000
I joined.

297
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,000
Yeah.

298
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Did you join after?

299
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:01,000
So, Chelsea, were you involved like prior to main net or you just joined after main net?

300
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Yeah.

301
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,000
So, I was involved prior to main net.

302
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:11,000
I missed the call for the latest test net, which meant that I missed the genus,

303
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
but ultimately missed the genesis.

304
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:23,000
But whenever it dropped, I basically bought into the set and yopped like hell to get some delegations.

305
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,000
What we do.

306
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Yep.

307
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Yeah.

308
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
It's a game.

309
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,000
That's how business model across the...

310
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,000
Was that your thing to the foundation or was that shilling to the clubs?

311
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000
A little bit of both.

312
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000
A little bit of yopping and shilling.

313
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,000
You can't yop to them.

314
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,000
You can't.

315
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Really?

316
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,000
That doesn't really work though, does it?

317
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,000
Well, I ended up getting a foundation delegation.

318
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Yeah.

319
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
It was a yop.

320
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Yop's work.

321
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,000
But you're probably doing both.

322
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000
It's just that the yelp paid off.

323
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,000
Yes.

324
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,000
Yeah.

325
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
I mean, the shill very rarely pays off.

326
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,000
Yeah.

327
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,000
It's true.

328
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000
I mean, it's paid off kind of a little bit.

329
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:04,000
It helps fill in the gaps, but the big blocks, the big blocks are foundation or well or...

330
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
Right.

331
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000
It's always outside.

332
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,000
So, Rama's going to kill me here.

333
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,000
The big news of the week is the Juno temporary reversal.

334
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Temporary reversal?

335
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Yeah.

336
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000
What is the re-crypto.com thing?

337
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,000
Well, yeah.

338
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,000
Well, I don't know why it is, but they've...

339
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,000
That has to be the reason.

340
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,000
It tokens up.

341
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000
Number go up.

342
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,000
Happy days.

343
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,000
Number go up by 100% to a very small number.

344
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000
50%?

345
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
Well, actually, no.

346
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Number...

347
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,000
So, the ATL's around like...

348
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,000
I get out my fucking...

349
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000
I think it's up 100%.

350
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
It's over 100% from ATL.

351
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,000
No, it's up...

352
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Well, it was up.

353
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,000
It was up at least 200%.

354
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000
It was 60 cents.

355
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,000
It was down...

356
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
300%.

357
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
It was down to like 14 cents or up to 60 cents.

358
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,000
I thought it was like 22.

359
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Yeah, it's down to 10 cents, I think at one point.

360
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,000
It was pretty low.

361
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,000
So, it was down to 12 cents.

362
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Right now, it's up to 316%.

363
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,000
But it has to say, it had at least doubled like a value, but I hadn't realized it tripled.

364
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,000
By the way, there's so much fucking Twitter talk around everybody talking in percentages.

365
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,000
It's such...

366
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Percentages are a funny thing.

367
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000
They don't really work the way you think they work.

368
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,000
So, just to talk only...

369
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000
I know half the percentages work.

370
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,000
But everybody just talks in percentages and doesn't talk in actuals.

371
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,000
And I think it's such a misleading type of thing when you only talk in...

372
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Yeah, it would be good to...

373
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,000
It's better to just do multiples, isn't it?

374
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,000
It's like two times or three times.

375
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,000
Two times?

376
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,000
Yeah.

377
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,000
But like...

378
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,000
There's a very easy numbers to work with.

379
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Yeah.

380
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:46,000
I mean, in the last four months, it's done a 0.05x.

381
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
Yeah, I mean, right.

382
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Like 99%.

383
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,000
Related question in the...

384
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:00,000
Yeah, Juno's up about a million percent and is now only 89% down, says Ben Davis in the chat.

385
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,000
Yeah.

386
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,000
And also pointedly asked, is how working it seems broken on my laptop?

387
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,000
It is...

388
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Well, for some definition of working, it is working.

389
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,000
It's just that the UI is still disabled.

390
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Because after working out what was going on with the bug that happened when Juno BlockTimes halved,

391
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:27,000
we haven't worked out what the best way is to actually fix that.

392
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000
So, the working...

393
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Basically, you need to change it, give people the ability to...

394
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Oh, God, there's two ways of doing it.

395
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,000
It's basically a configuration change, rug pulling.

396
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,000
It doesn't even rug pull.

397
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,000
It just makes...

398
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
It just orphan steak in a weird way.

399
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:54,000
And no funds actually have been touched like it's a blockchain, right?

400
00:30:54,000 --> 00:31:03,000
But the way you get back into a recoverable state and then ensure that everybody gets their steak back,

401
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:11,000
there's a more manual way and there's a less manual way, and there's also a little bit of a problem in that the Dow itself has been...

402
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:18,000
So, the Dow controls the contracts, which are how you change this and fix it and do migrations and stuff like that.

403
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:27,000
The other problem is that in order to make the Dow quarry, some of the founders have to stake.

404
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:34,000
And we were the ones who had our steak locked when the bug triggered.

405
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:42,000
So, there's a whole bunch of intersecting annoying things that mean that coordinating getting it back running is actually quite hard.

406
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Although AS Weaver actually wrote some code to automate a big portion of that, which is on my pile to review.

407
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:59,000
But at the moment, there is an Aptes Preview Net going on, which is absorbing all of my non-research time.

408
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
So, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on.

409
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,000
It would be my TLDR.

410
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,000
And Ben Davis provides a chat GPT summary of that diatribe with his So No.

411
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,000
Small contracts are hard.

412
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,000
It's not working.

413
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Simple No would have been fine.

414
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:23,000
So, some other fun stuff this week.

415
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Robert Kelly-ya has...

416
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Robert Kelly-ya, I don't know.

417
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Kelly-ya?

418
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,000
Kelly-ya.

419
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,000
Kelly-ya?

420
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,000
Kelly-ya?

421
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,000
Well, I don't know.

422
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,000
It's kind of fun because he's got ya at the end of his name.

423
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000
Thanks for the memes, Robert.

424
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Has done a psychoanalysis of the cosmos ecosystem, which is kind of fun.

425
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,000
Now, I'm not the authority on this particular topic.

426
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:59,000
I did read through the very lengthy synopsis on the cosmos ecosystem about a week ago.

427
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Most of it slipped my mind to now.

428
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:12,000
But basically, it just outlines this gentleman, and he is a qualified professional, I believe.

429
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:18,000
His observations of the culture and the...

430
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,000
What would you say?

431
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Like, it's the culture and like a few of the main personalities.

432
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:31,000
And how that reflects on the cosmos ecosystem as a whole.

433
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,000
And it's not a glowing review.

434
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,000
He does say at one point, however, that cosmos is not a cult.

435
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:45,000
And you know, the thing that I've noticed about things that are definitely not cults

436
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:52,000
is that you have to say they're not a cult unless somebody might get the wrong idea that they are a cult.

437
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:59,000
For example, I'm a member of a racing bicycle club.

438
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,000
And I think often when we're in the pub, we just sort of...

439
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,000
There would just be a lull in the conversation and somebody would be like,

440
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000
but this is not a cult.

441
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,000
This is not a cult.

442
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:16,000
And everybody just nods, laughs, and they go back to their bit because that's a normal thing to do when you're in a not a cult.

443
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,000
I read that as well.

444
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,000
That was part of his Robert's initial comment.

445
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,000
That must have been since...

446
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,000
That's a weird comment to come with, like walking into this and having those conversations,

447
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,000
it must have been repeated to him.

448
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000
He must have heard that it's a cult multiple times in his conversations.

449
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,000
For them to him to regurgitate and say it's not a cult.

450
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,000
That's not usually something he would just start out with.

451
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Why would he think in those things?

452
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,000
There are two things, and I don't know which one is funnier, right?

453
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Is that people repeatedly said to him, this is a cult.

454
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,000
Or people repeatedly said to him, this isn't a cult.

455
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,000
Both of which are very, very normal behavior as I've established.

456
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Those things definitely happen.

457
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,000
There's no doubt about it.

458
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:07,000
I go into a shared office two days a week and I sit down at my desk with my coffee that I've got from the coffee shop along the road.

459
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,000
I open the paper for you.

460
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,000
Just while I'm drinking the coffee for a couple of minutes before I start my working day.

461
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,000
One of the not my coworkers, because obviously it's a shared working space,

462
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,000
somebody will drift in and as they pass my desk, they'll say, morning,

463
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,000
they'll look around and say, it's not a cult.

464
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,000
Then they'll go to their desk and start their working day.

465
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,000
These are very normal social interactions that you just have throughout your working day, throughout your everyday life.

466
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:39,000
I go to drop my baby off at a swimming group and they're just like, come pick him up at three.

467
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,000
It's not a cult.

468
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,000
I want to take my baby back, please.

469
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,000
I originally found this, I think on the day he posted it, on the 24th, I got linked to it or something similar to that.

470
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:56,000
Then there was some Bendy and No Man, whatever that is, and there's Tricky and even Zaki's in there and things like that.

471
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,000
There were some nice reasonable replies to it and everything else.

472
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,000
Then I forgot it, like you, I forgot about it.

473
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Then I came back to him, I should go back and look at that thread and of course, completely off the fucking rails.

474
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Of course, it went the cosmos way, which was just fucking drunk driving directly into a tree.

475
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:18,000
You can see the fucking, there's a link in there.

476
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,000
Jay made a post on the 28th and it's fucking huge.

477
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:31,000
Jay's post is it's so good that I struggle to believe that Chris Morris didn't write it.

478
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:38,000
It feels like the sort of shit that you would get in one of those dark early 2000s British comedies.

479
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:48,000
Like the one where there's a completely deadpan news segment where a pedophile dresses as a school, bear with me, and a bunch of kids go to school.

480
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:54,000
Then they interview a local authority member and they're like, this is the one thing we didn't want to happen.

481
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,000
And you're just like, this is so bizarre and whatever.

482
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,000
But he has this whole, the post, if you've not seen it, is amazing.

483
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,000
It's like it's scripted.

484
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:09,000
He has maybe 300 to 400 words and a whole bunch of bullet points on the history of cosmos.

485
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,000
And we're talking going back to pre-tendament, right?

486
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:25,000
So like all of the all in bits stuff, Ethan's bookman, his original involvement and how he started working on it as part of his thesis to describe it and test it when tendermate came along.

487
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:35,000
And then after like a sort of a number of bullet points, 400 words, maybe like a long piece of the history of the ecosystem.

488
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,000
There's this paragraph.

489
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,000
I've actually got to read it out.

490
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:46,000
It's definitely not libelous to just read out what somebody's put on the internet publicly, is it?

491
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,000
So there is this paragraph, right?

492
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:58,000
So before this, it's just a technical person describing the formation of an organization and the technical hurdles to overcome to get there.

493
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000
It's very, very normal for technical people.

494
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:07,000
Before you read the paragraph, describe how far into the fucking post.

495
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,000
It's a lot of bullet points, right?

496
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,000
And it's several years of history.

497
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,000
I mean, it's going from I think 2012 is when that description of history starts.

498
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:22,000
We're now at like 2016, 2017, maybe 2018, right, in the history of what would become the cosmos.

499
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:33,000
When this paragraph appears, during this time, I learned that Chris Harbin self-admittedly saved George Soros in Thailand during the IMF incident that he is ex-MI6,

500
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,000
laundered money for Obama using jet fuel.

501
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,000
I later learned that he is also the lead funder for Brexit.

502
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,000
He is also clearly a major funder of Ethereum.

503
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:50,000
He also apparently had a major role in Tether, the project that was founded by the infamous Brock Pierce.

504
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,000
I'm not even going to talk about the string of deaths of my friends around that fellow.

505
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,000
The first half of it reads like a drill tweet.

506
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,000
Like just the first censor you do, it reads like a jima plot lines.

507
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:07,000
And then the Patriots were actually the shadow Patriots.

508
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,000
200 meters below Hudson Bay and they were running a shadow New York.

509
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:17,000
It wasn't the real New York, but it looked like normal New York, but it had robots in it.

510
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,000
You know, like, whoa, Kajima, calm down, calm down.

511
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,000
It's okay to like not fill the entire game with words.

512
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,000
You can have some gameplay.

513
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000
But then, and then the best thing about this paragraph, right, that paragraph comes in.

514
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,000
No judgments anyway.

515
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:45,000
And then he just segues without missing a beat back into the history of the formation of his energy tendermint foundation, ICF, all that kind of stuff.

516
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,000
And you're like, did I imagine?

517
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,000
Did I hallucinate that other bit?

518
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,000
And then it's okay because he does several follow up posts, including just quoting an extensive piece of scripture.

519
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,000
So, you know, the wheels come off again after a little while.

520
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,000
But just for that one moment, you're like, did I really read that?

521
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Did I mention that?

522
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,000
It's in there.

523
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,000
I also like how later he talks about, he like, he has this very small admission of insanity.

524
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:17,000
He goes after I resigned from AIB by popular demand in friends, though nobody saying would have agreed if they were in my shoes.

525
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,000
Like, well,

526
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,000
You said the quiet bit out loud.

527
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,000
Yeah, exactly.

528
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:31,000
There is one line in here that just says, Jesus is king of kings.

529
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,000
Yeah, you've seen his rap.

530
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,000
There's a three point wrap up right at the bottom where it says something like those.

531
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Yeah, there's like those that walk, that tolerate evil are evil.

532
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,000
Jesus is the king of kings, something, something, something.

533
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,000
And you're like, cool.

534
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,000
And then the best thing is that the post directly after it just just treats.

535
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,000
It's like several posts in a row, right?

536
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,000
The post directly after that just treat just treats that like it didn't happen.

537
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,000
And it's just like, hmm, some interesting organizational points.

538
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,000
However, I'm going to take your, your OPE to pieces and they just like basically just slate the guy.

539
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,000
They're like, I've crawled through your LinkedIn and I have some questions about your professional like credibility.

540
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:18,000
And it's like, wow, okay, somebody, somebody in crypto is questioning credentials.

541
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
Let's get the popcorn lads.

542
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:28,000
It's funny that the, well, the last word in his original post is checkmate.

543
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,000
Yeah.

544
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,000
I saw that.

545
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,000
Yeah.

546
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,000
Anyway, this is the red.

547
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,000
And then there's Ferris C. at 30s.

548
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:44,000
Like who this guy, not, not J, but Robert, like where do you come from and who's paying this and why is this now?

549
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:50,000
And then of course you have like today I saw all the posts around, like, do you know what the hell you're talking about?

550
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,000
And like, wow, would I trust you?

551
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,000
And it seems like your career is kind of a shit show, like all that kind of thing.

552
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Like, well, they're not those, these conclusions are correct or not.

553
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:06,000
But, and then like, to this guy's credit, man, when he, when he responds to things, he, he doesn't lose his temporary keeps a pretty even keel on it.

554
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:13,000
And he's actually given a lot more personal information than I would in these situations related to background and other types of things that were asked.

555
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,000
Yeah, I saw that.

556
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,000
I was like, you really shouldn't have.

557
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,000
Yeah.

558
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Like you should read the room, dude.

559
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:26,000
You should, you should take heed from Prop 16 and, you know, listen to game of notes and learn some of the mistakes that we're making.

560
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,000
Jacob's in here now.

561
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,000
Yeah, this is a, this is a hell of a thread.

562
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,000
So take it back to like, yeah, we're doing, we're doing the news, right?

563
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,000
And we have opinions on these.

564
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,000
What, what, what's your, what's your take on the, the OP that kicked off that thread?

565
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,000
Like what's your take on that, that post?

566
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,000
I know we've all read it.

567
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,000
I, you know, I thought that, I mean, I don't know how much history this guy has.

568
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,000
I mean, he says he doesn't have that much.

569
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:59,000
I mean, some of the things related to pain and trauma in the community, the fact that there's a lack of leadership and there's, but there's an incredible amount of hard work going on.

570
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,000
Like a huge amount of fatigue with the bear.

571
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,000
Like, I think all his points are directly on, right?

572
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,000
And I think he makes excellent points through all those.

573
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:13,000
I think, I think the idea of, I think the idea of like this leadership needs to come together.

574
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:23,000
I mean, I would agree with that, but it just seems like the people in these roles are, are, are not wired for that type of communication.

575
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,000
I think their egos are very large, but their skins are very thin.

576
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:39,000
And so it turns into like a, he said, she said, yada, yada, I'm carrying this baggage and like, and like people who you think are adults in those situations, even in this thread come across as extremely.

577
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,000
Like, just very childish, I think, in terms of doing some of these types of things.

578
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:51,000
So is it broken enough or that like, if this is the original eight or whatever the fuck it is related to that, is that going to fix itself?

579
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,000
I would probably say no, but, but I don't think that.

580
00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:01,000
But on the other hand, I don't think, I don't think necessarily that the cosmos future has anything to do with this shit show.

581
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Like there'll be other ways that this technology continues, whether or not this group figures it out or if they give a shit or if they blow themselves up or whatever else.

582
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:23,000
So, but I thought, I thought his points are right on, I think from a being from a positive perspective, hey, this, these are things that happen and, you know, we need to like use communication and collaboration and well-being and all types of, I think is probably correct.

583
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:29,000
I don't think this, this group here, like these names that are on this list have any possibility of doing that.

584
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,000
And then even when you talk about like trying to pull that together, everybody screams the centralization.

585
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:38,000
And I also don't think that having 10,000 names in that, in that meeting makes sense either.

586
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,000
I think that's probably the wrong way.

587
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,000
And I don't think I get solved through governance of like the whole community.

588
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,000
I don't think you can figure it out either.

589
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,000
So, yeah, I don't know.

590
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,000
I'm curious what you guys think.

591
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Don't leave me out of fucking living here.

592
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:58,000
It's just would have been a perfect time to hit the fucking rug.

593
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,000
And that's the end of the podcast, folks.

594
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,000
And there we go.

595
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Well, I don't know.

596
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:11,000
So, my take would be like, I read that and I thought, yeah, like, like CERP did, there were some pretty spot on points.

597
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:22,000
I think that like there have been every single generation of leaders in the cosmos or even just people who work in the cosmos have like a variety of trauma points that are not actually resolved.

598
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,000
Like, like as in quit your job, trauma points.

599
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:36,000
You know, there's like, you have everybody has at some point like, okay, most people have maybe maybe not everybody like work to job where something so bad happened that you were like, fuck, I need to quit this job.

600
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,000
I didn't see literally get any other job than this job.

601
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,000
And until you're out and done.

602
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:54,000
And it's in the rearview mirror, you're just like, and like that combination of burnout and trauma that he kind of identifies like, I think is very common to a number of different people and a number of different teams for a number of different reasons.

603
00:45:54,000 --> 00:46:08,000
Like, and you can see it whether it's just, you know, founders falling out and like bad conflict negotiation conflict resolution, or, you know, like, I think there was a lot of trauma in the atom community because of the the 2.0.

604
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:14,000
Obviously, you know, there was all the stuff with proper 16 June and hope stuff around that.

605
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:22,000
And that's the one it's like very close to my heart, I suppose, because you know, speaking frankly, I think that what happened.

606
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:39,000
Like Juno is a really good example of something that looks like it looks like a down looks like a community, but the reality is, it was run by a very small group of people of which within that group of people there were even fewer people that were actually doing the majority of the work.

607
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:52,000
But the people who benefited most from, let's be real, the people who benefit most in the cosmos from most of these chains are the founding teams and specifically the founders, right?

608
00:46:52,000 --> 00:47:01,000
So there's two things here, which is like number one, do you even think that so he's like, like, get all the funds to get to go to a wellness retreat, whatever, like, I'm very, very, very oversimplifying.

609
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:10,000
But like the real problem is actually that if you're serious about the cosmos being a new type of economic system, right?

610
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:19,000
The problem we have in the UK, right? Historically, is that we grandfathered in the land rights of the people that conquered in 1066, right?

611
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:30,000
And the country can't move on. You can't move on when the people that were there right at the very beginning own the whole party, like own a huge portion of the land and by extension own the wealth, own the policies.

612
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:36,000
Own the national consensus, all that sort of stuff. That is the problem in the cosmos, right?

613
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:49,000
And the fact that this guy can speak to such a small group of people for what is ostensibly a very large ecosystem and say, these people need to sort it out because they're having an outsize impact on the ecosystem is just like saying,

614
00:47:49,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Rupert Murdoch controls too much of the media. It's the same problem in a completely new context or it's a variation on the same problem. So I think I kind of read all of his points and go, oh, yeah, but the remedy is different, right?

615
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:18,000
Which is that you need to get it to the point, like the chango thing we discussed the other week about Jack, which I thought was actually a less fair take down, is that you need to like get to the ecosystem will be healthy when you get to a point where you're

616
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:34,000
not always looking over your shoulder at the small group of original people that were there. Unless you can move past that the whole ecosystem and GMI. And to some extent, the more economic power they have as well, the more the ecosystem is completely, it's just centralization, right?

617
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:54,000
It's just centralization. And the fact that you can even speak to this group of people are having an outsize influence is evidence. It's a bearish indicator of centralization in the ecosystem. And that's the thing I took away from it. Amongst other things, which is that, you know, I think also a lot of the stuff with the incentives and the who's getting hurt and all that

618
00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:11,000
sort of stuff is very, very, very lopsided. It was the other thing I was thinking. So yeah, I don't know. It said a lot of things that I guess I knew and I've been thinking about. But you know, when somebody just collects a lot of thoughts into one place and you're like, that's put very well.

619
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,000
Yes, I agree with it.

620
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:29,000
I thought it was. And he's pretty positive around how he feels like he's very positive. I think throughout that whole thing around and also related to how he thinks it can be fixed. I mean, I don't know these individuals really at all, right?

621
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:47,000
A couple, like just casually and things like that. But being an outside individual looking at it, I really struggle with it being fixed. And to your point, like, should it be fixed? Or is it important for it to be fixed? Right? And is that a preset that has to happen for this to move forward?

622
00:49:47,000 --> 00:50:01,000
Or is it just better that, you know, honestly, that some of the bigger chains today with what we're talking about the IDX coming in and I have Celestia and, you know, we're gonna have these other kind of large rollouts coming in. Maybe there's a new guard, you know, and the informals will always be there and

623
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:15,000
there's gonna have those spots and we're joking about that as well in terms of, you know, there's gonna be certain names that are always at the dance and in terms of validation and other types of things. But maybe they'll maybe the how those groups set direction is not the same team that's setting direction anymore.

624
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:32,000
I certainly have that hope. Like if you look at the skip team, or Kajira, or, I guess even D.Y.D. at DX, like those are really strong teams that don't have that baggage that all the Cosmos OGs do like skip. I always love interacting with the skip.

625
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:55,000
They're such friendly folks. They're wicked smart. Same goes for like code hands, even though he won't join the podcast. Like they're just good folks to work with. And there's competition between them. Absolutely. D.Y.D.X. and Kajira are directly competitors. But there is an enmity, right? It's healthy competition. And there is outright enmity between the Cosmos OGs.

626
00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:12,000
Yeah, sure. It was you do wonder if it's just like one of those things where you have toxicity at the top and it begets toxicity in an organization and then that that organization, you know, most of the other the kind of OG orgs and validates and a lot of that stuff was the proliferation of people from that.

627
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:19,000
That environment, right? And it's that classic thing, right? You know, people always say the people who are bullied become bullies, right?

628
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:42,000
I think as like as the ecosystem, and you know, this is sort of following on from points that you guys have been making, but as the secret ecosystem matures, I think those crazy voices will get less and less and orgs and, you know, well organized money will come in and things will be a lot more sane in like another couple of years.

629
00:51:42,000 --> 00:52:04,000
The whole way that the ecosystem works is just there is a lot of small teams. There's a lot of strong personalities. There's a lot of fucking crazy people. But I think as time goes by, like those voices are going to get diluted by others that people actually want to fucking listen to.

630
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:15,000
I mean, the drama is still be there. There will still be like an outlet for those who like to punish themselves with drama to engage with.

631
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:41,000
Yeah. There's also another thing which is just like a personality thing. I think the ecosystem overwhelmingly has privileged founders or like personalities who are representatives who are essentially the marketer. So there's like a very strong connection between fucking shilling, I suppose, like, and so leadership and shilling and being loud.

632
00:52:41,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Those three things have all been conflated, right? And the thing you don't see, what's striking to me is on very few of the teams do you see servant leaders, right? Which is, I know it's a dull fucking corporate meme organization or design word, right?

633
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,000
But you would expect to see that, right? Like I've-

634
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,000
I don't even know that term. What is that term?

635
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:17,000
I've worked for literal psychopaths who could see that it was in their best interest to lead in that style and so adopted it.

636
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,000
Well, servant leadership is like when you sort of-

637
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,000
Is it by example, you mean? Like from a perspective or something?

638
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:45,000
It's like leading from the middle of a group. Yes, by example, but not by being like, I am the leader, we're going to do this thing. It's like consensus leadership. And when you look at- there's like a really good description of the servant leader was like quite often if you go to a team in an engineering org.

639
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:53,000
And this person should, by the way, probably be like the lead engineer or something, but if it's not, then you have a problem with that team.

640
00:53:53,000 --> 00:54:05,000
You go to the team and you basically just like watch them working and you see essentially who is the one who's keeping the group dynamics functioning and everybody's sort of knocking along.

641
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:12,000
And there's loads and loads and loads of different ways that people try and like automate this or put right books about it or whatever, whatever, whatever.

642
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:17,000
But it's just a personality thing. Some people are good at it, right? They're good at motivating people, they're good at looking after people.

643
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:23,000
They're good at essentially like looking after people around them. Servant leadership is really kind of in the name, right?

644
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,000
At least that's how I define it and that's how I've seen it acted out, right?

645
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:34,000
But those people are quite often not the ones when people go to that team and they're like who is like the main person talked to on this team.

646
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:42,000
It wouldn't necessarily be that person, even though they are the key person, they are the leader, they are the one that's making the whole party happen.

647
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:49,000
And I think like you do, but then I have seen another place where that person specifically is the CFO or is the COO.

648
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,000
Sure.

649
00:54:50,000 --> 00:55:03,000
And they've made a conscious decision despite the fact they could be very alpha, they could be whatever to be like, no, I need to actually like kind of, yeah, even if it's just self-interested, like nurture this group of people and make sure that this whole thing is happening.

650
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:11,000
Rather than just being like kind of in it for the ego, you know, like in it because my balls are big on the leader.

651
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,000
Interesting.

652
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:23,000
Interesting thing about here is that like, I would assume I actually feel that that most of the individuals that are involved in this thing are tried to be that servant leader.

653
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:33,000
Like they're all, I think for the most part, I think they're all technically capable, they're all either in the engineering side or are leading engineering, obviously.

654
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:39,000
It's not so much that, but and I don't know if they all play that, hey, I'm in the massive role.

655
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,000
I actually don't think that's necessarily the case.

656
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:48,000
Like I don't think they have that ego where they have to be viewed as being a leader, at least at least the ones in these names that I've seen in here.

657
00:55:48,000 --> 00:56:07,000
But the interesting part of that is, is it seems like whenever there's a disagreement, it constantly goes back to that person is being decevious or they're either being, they're either being, they're either being like unfair or they're doing something sneaky or they're doing something behind the scenes.

658
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:18,000
Like it kind of seems like it automatically instantly goes to a bad place or they don't feel like their contributions are noticed or somebody puts their name on something even though we developed it as a team.

659
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,000
Like it all becomes that type of thing.

660
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:35,000
And I'm not sure if that is, if that is, if those things are true number one, or if it's more about they want to, that somebody wants to be, wants to be viewed as an individual versus as part of this group that's creating those types of things.

661
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:44,000
But man, it sure seems like it fucking devolves into name calling and bullshit pretty quick, at least, at least in the conversations that I've seen.

662
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,000
Like it sure seems to fall apart fast, right?

663
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:51,000
Like if somebody's name is like not on a GitHub thing, it's not like, hey, can you add my name because I was involved.

664
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:57,000
It seems like it fucking turns into a, like they're having a parade on the fucking street and everybody's burning torches.

665
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,000
I've seen that happen more than once.

666
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,000
It just goes absolutely out of control.

667
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,000
And you just, I don't know.

668
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,000
A lot of that is how people talk to each other.

669
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:12,000
I think like it's just kind of, there's probably a better way of putting it, but it's like a lack of respect.

670
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:17,000
Like it's people being very online and especially over text as well.

671
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:28,000
The fact that a lot of the communications via text and people don't like take five to, you know, you're like, text is really hard to get across nuance and almost nobody's talking over voice.

672
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:43,000
And although, you know, some, when the chips are down, some voice calls do happen and I can remember some when people were just screaming till the mic distorted down the, down the virtual phone at each other.

673
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:53,000
So, you know, these, and this is like, like, I've never seen like the level of bad behavior, but then you just like in any organization I work for, but then, you know, this is a bunch of nerds on the internet, right?

674
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,000
These are all dolls, whatever.

675
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:00,000
And I, by the way, I Googled the definition of servant leadership just to check myself, right?

676
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:15,000
And the one liner summary is a leader who prioritizes achieving concrete objectives as a team rather than accumulating power or organizational power, or like not to riot if you like.

677
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:24,000
So it's that thing of like, somebody might not even be aware of who they are as a leader, but they would be able to say, oh, that organization ship that thing.

678
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,000
That's pretty cool.

679
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,000
Yeah, the CTO.

680
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,000
Right.

681
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,000
Literally, don't know.

682
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,000
Like, I think, like, to Schultz's point, like, I would put like skipping that in that case.

683
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,000
Skipper like that.

684
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,000
Yeah.

685
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,000
Like, seems like that.

686
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,000
And I'm just seeing like that.

687
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,000
The secret team kind of seems like that.

688
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,000
I don't know that team very well enough, but like,

689
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,000
We know and love us off basically.

690
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:47,000
Like that, like his vibe to me is always like, we're, we're executing this as a team, right?

691
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,000
Like, it's never about him.

692
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,000
Like, there's obviously worked a lot of teams like that, right?

693
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,000
So.

694
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:57,000
Which is interesting, isn't it? Because as soon as you like, we sort of looked at that post me like, oh, yeah, you know, blah, blah, blah.

695
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:03,000
And then as soon as we stopped to think about it, we actually have thought of a number of teams who maybe don't in any way play.

696
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:14,000
And I know we've only listed a few there, but it just, it does go to show you though, in terms of mental space, how much of the air in the room is being sucked up by a few people and like the drama.

697
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,000
Yeah.

698
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,000
And you are like, like this story is, I mean, honestly, this, I was being nice.

699
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,000
This story is a fucking disaster.

700
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,000
Like this is, it's a goddamn embarrassment.

701
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,000
It really is like, like, like.

702
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,000
I thought it was a great read.

703
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,000
It reminded me of that.

704
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,000
Oh, yeah.

705
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,000
This is a really niche into that deep cut.

706
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:38,000
I don't even know if this made it out of the UK, but there was a band back in the early 2000s called my virtual, right?

707
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,000
And they were very one, they were very like flash in the pan.

708
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,000
They did one album.

709
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,000
It was like, like quite big rock album then disappeared.

710
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,000
Like 10 years later, they came back and they were going to crowdfund an album.

711
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,000
And it was just a shit show.

712
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,000
And it was a shit show that went on for years.

713
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,000
They just didn't get it together.

714
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,000
Maybe they used the money for drugs.

715
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:57,000
It was all this other stuff.

716
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,000
And there was this one thread on a music forum called drowned and sound, right?

717
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:08,000
And it was just somebody originally started it was just like, I'm just trying to get a handle on what the fuck has happened here.

718
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,000
Here is my bullet point list of what I think has happened so far.

719
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,000
And it was like, you know, this date CD is supposed to ship.

720
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,000
Don't ship.

721
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,000
Blah, blah, blah.

722
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,000
This thread ended up becoming its own like driver magnet.

723
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,000
It went on for multiple years.

724
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,000
The band were ostensibly creating sock puppet accounts to post.

725
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,000
And then people were threatened with libel.

726
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:29,000
It was amazing.

727
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,000
It was like the most fucked up thread on a forum ever.

728
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,000
And it was hilarious, like deeply hilarious.

729
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:41,000
And there were just too many personalities all just talking across each other.

730
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,000
It was mad.

731
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,000
And it was, it went on for years.

732
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,000
This reminds me of that.

733
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:51,000
Just like it reminds me of opening up that thread after a long time and just being like, huh, wow, they're still doing this.

734
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,000
Huh.

735
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,000
Well, it's got a 14 day timeout.

736
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:59,000
I already set a reminder to make sure at 13 days I'm going back in there and make sure if anybody keeping the sucker alive.

737
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,000
This thing's not getting archive.

738
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,000
We got to go stir the pot.

739
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,000
Ask some bad question.

740
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:06,000
Yeah.

741
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,000
What about this?

742
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,000
Well, I mean, that's kind of an interesting part of him posting in the Cosmos Hope forum specifically, right?

743
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:18,000
It feels like if you wasn't expecting a bad reaction like that, he would have posted it like somewhere that wasn't the Cosmos Hope forum.

744
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,000
Like that obviously is the best place to put it.

745
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,000
But it could have been like on medium or something posted to Twitter.

746
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,000
He got good feedback though, right?

747
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,000
Don't you think?

748
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:27,000
I mean, he did.

749
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,000
He went off the rails.

750
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,000
I should say.

751
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,000
Yes.

752
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,000
Before he got off the rails, he had great feedback.

753
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:33,000
Yeah.

754
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,000
But posting there means that he, it had to go off the rails.

755
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,000
There wasn't any other option, right?

756
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,000
True.

757
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,000
Yeah.

758
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,000
So I think, yeah, it was inevitable.

759
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,000
Yeah.

760
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,000
I think, I mean, Robert, we never met you.

761
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,000
If you're looking for a follow on business, dude, I would look elsewhere.

762
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,000
Like, I don't, I don't know.

763
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,000
I don't know if he, I don't know if this is a really a workshop.

764
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,000
Let's go rent a, let's go rent a house somewhere and figure this out.

765
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,000
I think I agreed.

766
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,000
I was a little salty about this topic as well.

767
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,000
Even in the show notes, I called it out, but, but like, I agree.

768
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,000
Like he's, he's trying to find if there's, if there's business here, which is like, who is it?

769
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,000
Right.

770
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,000
Um, but I mean, geez, can you imagine facilitating this fucking conversation?

771
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,000
Good God, what?

772
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,000
It would be like Dr. Phil, it would be worse.

773
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,000
It would be like Jerry Springer.

774
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,000
They'd be punching each other.

775
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:25,000
You'd have to like Robert, Robert, you'd have to like, you'd have to like the

776
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,000
knives out of the drawers and everything.

777
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,000
Like you'd really have to, yeah.

778
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,000
It'd be madness.

779
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:37,000
I'd bring out like a midget or a hooker or some fucking devs.

780
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,000
It's like, you know, again, oh my goodness.

781
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,000
Yeah.

782
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,000
Yeah.

783
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:47,000
It'll, I mean, I think there's a lot of things to reflect on, but I guess the

784
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:52,000
conclusion is like, at least I'm like, you know, you could give those people all the

785
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,000
therapy in the world.

786
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,000
And I would imagine some of them aren't getting therapy independently because of

787
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,000
the amount of, as we mentioned, trauma and bullshit that's happened.

788
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:06,000
Um, but it's not like, if that helps the ecosystem, then that is just a sign that

789
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,000
the ecosystem and GMI.

790
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:13,000
So, you know, a better solution would be to try and ship some more stuff and

791
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:18,000
maybe like break the old, old guards grip on the eco really.

792
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,000
That'd be kind of cool.

793
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,000
Remember, says he wants to get funded.

794
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:22,000
It's very clear.

795
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,000
Well, no shit, dude.

796
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,000
Like the guy is out there to try to solve problems like this.

797
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,000
And this is a fucking, fucking problem.

798
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:29,000
So yeah, of course.

799
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,000
Yeah.

800
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,000
He wants to, yeah, no shit.

801
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,000
He's not doing it for, yeah, that's a problem.

802
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,000
The next few problems like this.

803
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,000
He'll be wearing the T shirt on the Cosmos forum guy and like candy.

804
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:45,000
So have any of you seen the Metallica documentary, some kind of monster?

805
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,000
No.

806
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,000
Maybe I have.

807
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,000
It's a while ago.

808
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,000
Okay.

809
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:53,000
So the premise of it is that they're going to make an album.

810
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,000
And then things just fall off the rails.

811
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:01,000
And astonishingly, they already have the documentary makers in, right?

812
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,000
And then they have a six month gap.

813
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,000
This happens to like 10 minutes into the film, right?

814
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,000
Because Hetfield is just like, no, actually need to go to rehab.

815
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,000
Can't do this fucking album.

816
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,000
And then they come back in and they have essentially like, he's in rehab.

817
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,000
He's like, I can only work four hours a day on the album.

818
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,000
Here are my terms.

819
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,000
We're going to have to make it work this way.

820
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,000
And astonishingly, they have this even film it.

821
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,000
They talk to the documentary maker and the documentary makers are like, dudes, this is fucked up.

822
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,000
We can just fucking ice this.

823
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,000
We can come back next album cycle.

824
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,000
And Lars Orri is like, no, man, no, man, we got to do this.

825
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,000
We got to be honest, man, we got to do this.

826
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:41,000
And you're like, this is the dumbest thing you have ever said, Lars.

827
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:46,000
But thank you for allowing this car crash to continue for another fucking 60 minutes.

828
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,000
Amazing.

829
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,000
It is literally like, it is kind of like spinal tap, but real.

830
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,000
It's just a complete shit show.

831
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:58,000
But the best bit of it is that they get a essentially like an organizational psychologist, right?

832
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,000
To come in for the band.

833
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,000
And there's a bunch of intensely awkward scenes that happen as a result.

834
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:09,000
Like he tries to get them together with Dave Mustaine, who they fired in the 80s.

835
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:13,000
And there's this scene where Dave Mustaine is talking like,

836
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,000
he's a massively successful artist in his own right, right?

837
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,000
Big four of thrash, all this stuff.

838
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:23,000
And it's like these grown men trying to like have a conversation about the way they've hurt each other.

839
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,000
And he's just like, yeah, man, I guess I've never really got over it on this kind of shit.

840
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,000
What the fuck?

841
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,000
This is fucking insanity.

842
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,000
Like it's the whole thing is totally insanity.

843
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,000
And this guy feels a little bit like that guy, Phil.

844
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,000
He's called Phil in the, in some kind of monster.

845
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:43,000
You're just like, you sure, you sure you know what you're getting into when you take this gig?

846
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,000
Do you really want this?

847
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,000
Do you really want, I mean, the buddy's good, but do you really want this?

848
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:53,000
By the way, if you've not seen some kind of monster, hard recommend, like just get that on, get it on.

849
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,000
It's madness.

850
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:59,000
All right, we done with this stupid thing.

851
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:03,000
Shall we do a drill tweet of the week as a Palak Clanser?

852
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,000
Who wants to go?

853
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,000
No, we've been talking over him for an hour.

854
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:13,000
You've been talking about, stop, stop, stop.

855
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,000
You're in the special thanks section.

856
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:22,000
And my thumb was lying on a Twitter user called come boy.

857
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,000
See you on me, right?

858
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,000
I wonder if that user still exists.

859
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,000
Okay, let's try that again.

860
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,000
Stop.

861
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:34,000
Oh, we're in this section marked racism left page or right page.

862
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:40,000
Oh, is there any posts by Jake one?

863
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:45,000
Well, there's a, there's a very famous one on this page, actually.

864
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:46,000
Let's do it.

865
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,000
Pick that one.

866
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:48,000
Yeah.

867
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,000
Well, no, but if you know anything about drill, you already know this tweet.

868
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,000
So I want that one.

869
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:56,000
I want that one.

870
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,000
It's the, for those that know, it's the dial tweet, right?

871
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:04,000
If you know drills corpus, you'll know the dial tweet, the racism dial tweet.

872
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,000
Yeah, but none of us know that one.

873
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,000
Yeah, just no one knows the corpus.

874
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,000
Stop beating around the bush.

875
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:15,000
All right, whatever. So, okay, turning a big dial that says racism on it and

876
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,000
constantly looking back at the audience for approval, like a contestant on the

877
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,000
price is right.

878
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,000
That's a good one.

879
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:28,000
That is used a lot on, on the internet or was at least, I guess, in the, in the

880
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,000
mid 2010s.

881
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,000
Happy days.

882
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,000
Seems like a lot of the comedy acts these days.

883
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,000
And not necessarily just racism, but general outrageous things.

884
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:44,000
And they're like, you can see the sort of testing the audience to see how far

885
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,000
they can go until they sort of get a little bit of pushback.

886
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,000
You know what I'm saying?

887
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:50,000
Yeah.

888
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:56,000
I mean, well, yeah, people start standing up and walking out.

889
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:01,000
I mean, I guess there's been a period of time where like, okay, there's been a bit

890
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,000
of a cultural war going on for a variety of reasons, I guess.

891
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:10,000
And I think the liberal arts consensus of which comedians kind of broadly fall

892
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:14,000
into has been at least, at least my impression of comedy is somebody who goes

893
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,000
to a comedy festival every year.

894
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,000
The biggest one in the world, I think the Edinburgh fringe is that like people

895
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:27,000
have decided to punch up, not punch down with the way they talk in their comedy

896
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,000
on the whole.

897
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,000
So it would also make sense that like, you know, culture is a pendulum, right?

898
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,000
It swings one way, it swings the other.

899
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,000
It would kind of make sense to maybe the generation below are just like, yeah,

900
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:40,000
fuck disabled people.

901
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,000
And then they look around and wait to see if anybody leaves the room.

902
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,000
They're like, right, nailed it.

903
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:46,000
I'm funny.

904
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,000
Not knowing that not knowing that that was literally like every joke in the

905
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,000
1970s, right?

906
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:55,000
But yeah, I don't know.

907
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,000
I don't know.

908
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,000
Don't know.

909
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,000
So yeah, that was drill tweet of the week.

910
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,000
Do you want to?

911
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,000
That wasn't much of a pal of cleanser.

912
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,000
Still thinking about that stupid thing.

913
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,000
I could do another one.

914
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,000
That's all right.

915
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:14,000
That's all right.

916
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,000
You asked, you asked, so here we are, right?

917
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,000
Say when?

918
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,000
Stop.

919
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,000
We're in the trolls section.

920
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,000
Left page or right page?

921
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:25,000
Left.

922
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,000
Readers choice.

923
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,000
All the trolls talk shit about my profession as an artisanal ass wiper.

924
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:36,000
But when they see my fine selection of towels, they beg for my services.

925
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,000
There you go.

926
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:43,000
That's kind of like that cosmos, a cosmos forward post, isn't it?

927
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:44,000
It's a little bit.

928
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:45,000
Yeah.

929
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,000
This is why me, the drill tweets, they're kind of relevant.

930
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,000
They're oddly relevant.

931
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,000
So, all right, let's move on.

932
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:56,000
Does anyone here know what in the fuck the snow trace dot io is?

933
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,000
So Avalanche, sea chain explorer.

934
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,000
But like, so the news is, is that they're shutting down, right?

935
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,000
And this is because of licensing fees from EtherScan,

936
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:16,000
of which they do look pretty similar, of wait for it, $2 million.

937
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,000
Is that a year?

938
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,000
Do you know?

939
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,000
Is that what that is?

940
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,000
That, wow.

941
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,000
Apparently per year.

942
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,000
It's a denominated in per year around here.

943
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,000
How is this even monetized?

944
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:27,000
It's not, right?

945
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,000
I don't know.

946
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,000
How it's no trace, monetize.

947
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:35,000
Well, maybe they would look to get institutions to pay for it.

948
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,000
I would assume so, right?

949
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,000
I don't have to come from Avalanche or something.

950
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,000
That's got to be there.

951
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,000
I just want like, I mean, there's 100 copies of this.

952
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:49,000
There's same thing for, I think, optimism, arbitrum base uses it, I think.

953
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,000
I think BNB chain uses it.

954
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:54,000
There's a million copies of the same structure, right?

955
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:58,000
Anything at the ERC 20 is somehow taking that and repurposing it for their needs.

956
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:02,000
Who in the world is selling licensing fees of $2 million?

957
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:07,000
It's, I mean, again, I don't know where, I mean, if they think that there's $5 million

958
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,500
of revenue that they're generating off this and they want to charge two for the use of

959
01:11:10,500 --> 01:11:12,000
it, I can understand that.

960
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,000
I just don't see where the hell the revenue side comes in.

961
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,000
So where is the, like, you know, what do you do?

962
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:19,000
Business with usurper.

963
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:26,000
A weekly podcast on doing elementary maths to reveal that a company is unprofitable and

964
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:27,000
has no revenue stream.

965
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,000
Yeah.

966
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,000
Well, what the hell?

967
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,000
Like, what do they get for their $2 million?

968
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:32,000
This is what I'm referring to.

969
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,000
Like, yeah, okay, they've built the thing, they license the code base.

970
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:45,000
But like, in what reality would that kind of like licensing fee be required to maintain

971
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,000
the software plus profit?

972
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:54,000
Like that is, you know, I feel like that's a markup of about, I can 20 X on expenses.

973
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,000
I mean, it's huge.

974
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,000
I don't know anything about it.

975
01:11:58,000 --> 01:11:59,000
I mean, look at enterprise software.

976
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:04,000
I mean, for Jesus Christ, like if you want to get in that situation, like look at SAP

977
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,000
revenues or look at those types of things, like they charge massive numbers for those

978
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:08,000
licenses, but they're not.

979
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,000
SAP charge astonishing amounts of money.

980
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:16,000
But again, like so hard to have costs that are so small years of running.

981
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:20,000
And organizations literally fail trying to institute it.

982
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,000
So, you know, as soon as we start comparing to, yeah.

983
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,000
Yeah.

984
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:29,500
I mean, if you're questioning ETH scan, if they feel that, if they think that they can

985
01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:32,000
charge that, they can charge whatever the hell they want, right?

986
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,000
And if they're the highest most used tool set, you can say like they're gouging.

987
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:37,000
But okay, it's there to slow.

988
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,000
They really have a grip on that market.

989
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,000
It's back to like everything about, well, okay, not everything.

990
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:47,000
A lot of things about ETH are just like mad centralized, right?

991
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,000
That's why it's easy to use.

992
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,000
That's why it has the user base at the moment.

993
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,000
What does MintScan license for?

994
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,000
Do you know?

995
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,000
Do they license that up?

996
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:55,000
APIs, I guess.

997
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,000
No, they actually license to UI though.

998
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,000
Oh, no.

999
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:00,000
So, all right.

1000
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:06,500
So, Ram has clarified that it's all the underlying infrastructure indexing hosting and all that

1001
01:13:06,500 --> 01:13:07,500
type of stuff.

1002
01:13:07,500 --> 01:13:08,500
So, that means the software.

1003
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:09,500
It's a solution.

1004
01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:10,500
Yeah, that makes a little bit more sense.

1005
01:13:10,500 --> 01:13:16,000
I read that as being the software licensing fee to use that code base.

1006
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,800
No, no, because the code isn't open.

1007
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:19,500
They have a whole platform.

1008
01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:21,500
Like it's the ETH scan.

1009
01:13:21,500 --> 01:13:22,500
So, it's a...

1010
01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:28,500
They deliver a bespoke version for Avalach, right?

1011
01:13:28,500 --> 01:13:31,500
Yeah, Explorer as a service.

1012
01:13:31,500 --> 01:13:33,500
Yeah, it's Explorer as a service.

1013
01:13:33,500 --> 01:13:34,500
Yeah.

1014
01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:40,500
So, you guys, there are two guys about the guy I met over here in Australia, and he was

1015
01:13:40,500 --> 01:13:44,500
like telling me about the exchange as a service.

1016
01:13:44,500 --> 01:13:46,500
Do you guys know about that?

1017
01:13:46,500 --> 01:13:47,500
No.

1018
01:13:47,500 --> 01:13:52,000
Basically, you just pay them money and they spin up a fucking exchange for you and you

1019
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,500
put your badge on it.

1020
01:13:53,500 --> 01:13:55,500
Stands the reason that that exists, yeah?

1021
01:13:55,500 --> 01:13:56,500
Yeah.

1022
01:13:56,500 --> 01:13:57,500
Yeah.

1023
01:13:57,500 --> 01:13:58,500
I was like, you what now?

1024
01:13:58,500 --> 01:13:59,500
Fuck, all right.

1025
01:13:59,500 --> 01:14:00,500
Fair enough.

1026
01:14:00,500 --> 01:14:01,500
That'll work.

1027
01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:02,500
Sounds good.

1028
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:03,500
Yeah.

1029
01:14:03,500 --> 01:14:07,500
But anyway, they kind of blew me out a little bit.

1030
01:14:07,500 --> 01:14:10,500
We need a DYDX bridge as a service.

1031
01:14:10,500 --> 01:14:12,500
Why don't we do that?

1032
01:14:12,500 --> 01:14:13,500
Yeah.

1033
01:14:13,500 --> 01:14:15,500
Stay great to the Avalachs.

1034
01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:19,500
Yeah, like bridge as a service, but backhandedly...

1035
01:14:19,500 --> 01:14:21,500
It's just bridges straight to one wallet.

1036
01:14:21,500 --> 01:14:24,500
Yeah, you can select anyone you want to wallet.

1037
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:25,500
From the fucking...

1038
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:27,500
From the list of validators, but it's just...

1039
01:14:27,500 --> 01:14:28,500
From the one validator.

1040
01:14:28,500 --> 01:14:32,000
Okay, like just being facetious, this is not financial advice.

1041
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,000
This is definitely not financial crime advice.

1042
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:44,000
But if you just made a drop down on a UI and it says, hey, you're going to bridge to this

1043
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:49,620
wallet and the drop down allows them to select their wallets on the other end of the counterparty

1044
01:14:49,620 --> 01:14:54,740
bridge and they click it and then they hit the button and then the wallet says, hey,

1045
01:14:54,740 --> 01:14:57,100
you're about to do this transaction.

1046
01:14:57,100 --> 01:15:03,260
What percentage of users do you think would actually look in that code, that payload,

1047
01:15:03,260 --> 01:15:13,100
to verify that what they had selected in the UI was definitely the same as the payload?

1048
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:14,100
At least a handful.

1049
01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:15,100
I reckon...

1050
01:15:15,100 --> 01:15:20,100
I like the blind signing in Metamask better because that doesn't tell you shit.

1051
01:15:20,100 --> 01:15:21,100
That's right.

1052
01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:24,100
So you do a platform turn on blind signing.

1053
01:15:24,100 --> 01:15:25,100
Okay.

1054
01:15:25,100 --> 01:15:26,100
Okay.

1055
01:15:26,100 --> 01:15:27,100
I'm not worried.

1056
01:15:27,100 --> 01:15:31,100
Because I haven't used Metamask in literally years.

1057
01:15:31,100 --> 01:15:33,500
I don't hold anything on ETH anymore.

1058
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:35,100
I don't really do anything on ETH.

1059
01:15:35,100 --> 01:15:36,100
I don't care.

1060
01:15:36,100 --> 01:15:37,100
Whatever.

1061
01:15:37,100 --> 01:15:38,100
I'm kind of an anti-Boomer.

1062
01:15:38,100 --> 01:15:39,100
I'm an anti-ETH Boomer.

1063
01:15:39,100 --> 01:15:40,100
Anyway.

1064
01:15:40,100 --> 01:15:41,100
You don't like money?

1065
01:15:41,100 --> 01:15:44,100
I don't like making money, which is why I don't get involved in Ethereum.

1066
01:15:44,100 --> 01:15:45,100
No, no.

1067
01:15:45,100 --> 01:15:48,100
I made money in Ethereum and then I was like, this technology is boring.

1068
01:15:48,100 --> 01:15:50,100
I want to go work on it.

1069
01:15:50,100 --> 01:15:51,100
I don't want to go...

1070
01:15:51,100 --> 01:15:52,100
Who gives a fuck?

1071
01:15:52,100 --> 01:15:54,100
Anyway, it's boring, not interested.

1072
01:15:54,100 --> 01:15:57,100
Made some money trying to get the fuck out.

1073
01:15:57,100 --> 01:15:58,740
Ethereum, that was that.

1074
01:15:58,740 --> 01:16:02,100
Do you really not see the payload in Metamask?

1075
01:16:02,100 --> 01:16:04,100
Because I remember seeing...

1076
01:16:04,100 --> 01:16:12,900
There is a setting on your ledger that says to enable blind signing.

1077
01:16:12,900 --> 01:16:17,100
What that is is that it just does not tell you all of the crap in the transaction.

1078
01:16:17,100 --> 01:16:20,100
It's just a much shorter message encoded.

1079
01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:26,100
It's two clicks instead of 45, but a lot of things don't work.

1080
01:16:26,100 --> 01:16:31,100
A lot of these dodgy ass platforms that people just fucking click their buttons on, have

1081
01:16:31,100 --> 01:16:36,100
got this thing called blind signing and you just don't see what the transaction is really.

1082
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:38,100
You see them in Metamask, but you don't see the details.

1083
01:16:38,100 --> 01:16:42,100
You can't verify addresses within ledger.

1084
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:44,100
Especially for Spark.

1085
01:16:44,100 --> 01:16:45,100
It's mostly...

1086
01:16:45,100 --> 01:16:46,100
It's all small contract type of things.

1087
01:16:46,100 --> 01:16:48,100
It's not so much like just simple staking or...

1088
01:16:48,100 --> 01:16:50,100
It's horrifying.

1089
01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:56,100
It's funny that it's the option of blind signing.

1090
01:16:56,100 --> 01:16:58,100
That sounds perfectly safe.

1091
01:16:58,100 --> 01:17:01,100
There will be millions of people out there doing it.

1092
01:17:01,100 --> 01:17:06,100
I have a new idea for a business strategy for Game of Nodes.

1093
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:11,100
I'll tell you guys off the stream though because you're going to like it.

1094
01:17:11,100 --> 01:17:13,100
Do any of you know how to...

1095
01:17:13,100 --> 01:17:15,100
No, we're not going to do that.

1096
01:17:15,100 --> 01:17:18,100
We get front run all the time without fucking ideas.

1097
01:17:18,100 --> 01:17:23,100
Even our financial crime ideas get front run.

1098
01:17:23,100 --> 01:17:26,100
Our TYDX bridge idea.

1099
01:17:26,100 --> 01:17:29,100
Yeah, we're talking about that just like three months ago.

1100
01:17:29,100 --> 01:17:33,100
We'll find the clue.

1101
01:17:33,100 --> 01:17:36,100
Yeah, we can be like the Simpsons of financial crime.

1102
01:17:36,100 --> 01:17:40,100
Where you go back in time and you find the Simpsons already predicted something that

1103
01:17:40,100 --> 01:17:43,100
actually then has come to pass in the 2000s.

1104
01:17:43,100 --> 01:17:45,100
We'll be like the Game of Nodes.

1105
01:17:45,100 --> 01:17:48,100
We'll just have thought of all the different iterations.

1106
01:17:48,100 --> 01:17:54,100
No mention of the billions of plot scenarios that didn't occur though.

1107
01:17:54,100 --> 01:17:56,100
Well, yeah, I mean, it's...

1108
01:17:56,100 --> 01:17:58,100
What's the one with the plane?

1109
01:17:58,100 --> 01:18:00,100
Survivorship bias, isn't it?

1110
01:18:00,100 --> 01:18:02,100
Yeah, that's survivorship bias.

1111
01:18:02,100 --> 01:18:03,100
Is that one?

1112
01:18:03,100 --> 01:18:05,100
Yep. Speaking of survivorship bias, the...

1113
01:18:05,100 --> 01:18:07,100
That was like cool.

1114
01:18:07,100 --> 01:18:09,100
Anyway, speaking of survivorship bias...

1115
01:18:09,100 --> 01:18:11,100
After the Aptos Prevented is starting to kick up again.

1116
01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:13,100
Yeah, we'll send it again.

1117
01:18:13,100 --> 01:18:15,100
1000 transactions a second.

1118
01:18:15,100 --> 01:18:17,100
Starting to pick up a little bit.

1119
01:18:17,100 --> 01:18:21,100
Well, we have to run two full rigs for this one.

1120
01:18:21,100 --> 01:18:24,100
There's a lot of locking.

1121
01:18:24,100 --> 01:18:29,100
What would you say the average spend rate is per validator for this test net?

1122
01:18:29,100 --> 01:18:33,100
And how many validators are there and how long does the test net go?

1123
01:18:33,100 --> 01:18:37,100
Test net is two weeks of testing plus probably...

1124
01:18:37,100 --> 01:18:40,100
We probably spent at least two weeks standing shit up, right?

1125
01:18:40,100 --> 01:18:41,100
Plus...

1126
01:18:41,100 --> 01:18:42,100
Yeah.

1127
01:18:42,100 --> 01:18:43,100
So probably...

1128
01:18:43,100 --> 01:18:44,100
Cool as six weeks total.

1129
01:18:44,100 --> 01:18:48,100
Yeah, I think I'll end up spending for two months of machine time.

1130
01:18:48,100 --> 01:18:49,100
Yeah.

1131
01:18:49,100 --> 01:18:54,100
Both a validator and a validator full node.

1132
01:18:54,100 --> 01:19:01,100
My guess average spend is probably for both of those a grand a month each.

1133
01:19:01,100 --> 01:19:04,100
I would say maybe a little bit less, 900 bucks a month each.

1134
01:19:04,100 --> 01:19:09,100
Some of the cloud-based vendors are probably spending five times that.

1135
01:19:09,100 --> 01:19:11,100
Maybe four or five grand a month each.

1136
01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:13,100
A ballpark number.

1137
01:19:13,100 --> 01:19:15,100
I mean, each validator.

1138
01:19:15,100 --> 01:19:20,100
So I costed a rough back of the packet estimate for AWS.

1139
01:19:20,100 --> 01:19:27,100
And my estimate for monthly spend per validator rig for the specs required for this one,

1140
01:19:27,100 --> 01:19:31,100
which is very high spec, would be about $20,000.

1141
01:19:31,100 --> 01:19:34,100
So you would have to spend...

1142
01:19:34,100 --> 01:19:36,100
So for bear in mind that you can bring it up...

1143
01:19:36,100 --> 01:19:37,100
Both or for one?

1144
01:19:37,100 --> 01:19:38,100
One.

1145
01:19:38,100 --> 01:19:41,100
So that's automating everything.

1146
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:47,100
So the plus side of that is that you could literally stand it up the day before it was required.

1147
01:19:47,100 --> 01:19:48,100
There's no run-in.

1148
01:19:48,100 --> 01:19:49,100
Sure.

1149
01:19:49,100 --> 01:19:52,100
And you could spin it down at day 16, 17, 18, whatever.

1150
01:19:52,100 --> 01:19:53,100
Right?

1151
01:19:53,100 --> 01:19:54,100
Yeah.

1152
01:19:54,100 --> 01:20:01,100
So the reality is it wouldn't be the full $20,000, but it would also be probably $12,000 times

1153
01:20:01,100 --> 01:20:06,100
two, something like that, probably about $24,000 with the spend.

1154
01:20:06,100 --> 01:20:10,100
So I noticed that there are a number of validators running on AWS.

1155
01:20:10,100 --> 01:20:15,100
I don't know what their level of automation is, what the level of services they're paying

1156
01:20:15,100 --> 01:20:20,100
are, because you could also spin up EC2 instances, which are also very expensive, but not to

1157
01:20:20,100 --> 01:20:21,100
that extent expensive.

1158
01:20:21,100 --> 01:20:22,100
Right?

1159
01:20:22,100 --> 01:20:26,100
So there's a variety of levels in that rabbit hole.

1160
01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:31,100
And then to answer your question on the number of valves, I think in terms of the number

1161
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:35,100
of Genesis valves or the ones that are partner validations, there are 40 of them.

1162
01:20:35,100 --> 01:20:36,100
There are 40 of those.

1163
01:20:36,100 --> 01:20:37,980
So there's 80 total nodes.

1164
01:20:37,980 --> 01:20:45,100
So 40 times, let's use an average of 2,500 to 4,000 each.

1165
01:20:45,100 --> 01:20:46,100
Right?

1166
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:47,100
Maybe.

1167
01:20:47,100 --> 01:20:51,700
When you average the cloud vendors out plus bare metal, two validators each, maybe say

1168
01:20:51,700 --> 01:20:52,700
three grand each.

1169
01:20:52,700 --> 01:20:53,700
Just a few.

1170
01:20:53,700 --> 01:20:55,700
Infrastructure costs, labor costs.

1171
01:20:55,700 --> 01:20:56,700
I think 4,000.

1172
01:20:56,700 --> 01:20:57,700
Correct.

1173
01:20:57,700 --> 01:20:59,700
It's at least a quarter million.

1174
01:20:59,700 --> 01:21:03,100
I would think it's somewhere between $150,000 and $50,000.

1175
01:21:03,100 --> 01:21:05,600
Yes, for a six-week type of thing.

1176
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:08,000
Plus, you also have community validators.

1177
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:12,620
Community validators is another 30 that I think are running just one node, if I'm understanding

1178
01:21:12,620 --> 01:21:13,620
that correctly.

1179
01:21:13,620 --> 01:21:19,820
And so figure, I think your guess of $200,000 to $250,000 is probably in the ballpark all

1180
01:21:19,820 --> 01:21:20,820
in.

1181
01:21:20,820 --> 01:21:22,100
And that's probably just infrastructure.

1182
01:21:22,100 --> 01:21:26,540
If you add time in there, if you actually put in time, it would probably double.

1183
01:21:26,540 --> 01:21:28,540
Yeah, at least half.

1184
01:21:28,540 --> 01:21:29,540
Wow.

1185
01:21:29,540 --> 01:21:30,540
Probably more than double.

1186
01:21:30,540 --> 01:21:33,540
It's fucking good.

1187
01:21:33,540 --> 01:21:41,700
There's a ton of time involved.

1188
01:21:41,700 --> 01:21:43,780
But I mean, there's a lot of time set up and everything else.

1189
01:21:43,780 --> 01:21:49,380
But yeah, there's probably close to $400,000 or $500,000.

1190
01:21:49,380 --> 01:21:52,660
So that's a lot of money.

1191
01:21:52,660 --> 01:21:55,180
What is the spec?

1192
01:21:55,180 --> 01:21:58,500
What is the required spec for that?

1193
01:21:58,500 --> 01:22:03,900
Their goal is between 48 and 64, they call it cores, but really what they mean is threads.

1194
01:22:03,900 --> 01:22:08,140
Because in the version, you're really talking a thread as a core.

1195
01:22:08,140 --> 01:22:14,740
But probably what you're thinking is 48 to 60, they're called 48 to 64 threads.

1196
01:22:14,740 --> 01:22:19,300
I would say 128 to 36 gigs or more.

1197
01:22:19,300 --> 01:22:24,340
Plus, in the VFN side is probably another 32 core, 32 thread.

1198
01:22:24,340 --> 01:22:25,340
And then...

1199
01:22:25,340 --> 01:22:28,660
Even the VFN had to be pretty beefy, right?

1200
01:22:28,660 --> 01:22:31,860
Yeah, I'm using all 7950s.

1201
01:22:31,860 --> 01:22:42,700
And then it's like we have a 9730, a 9374F, and a 9474F, which is a 64 core box and a

1202
01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:45,500
96 core box or 96 thread box.

1203
01:22:45,500 --> 01:22:46,700
The new Epics.

1204
01:22:46,700 --> 01:22:47,700
So those are...

1205
01:22:47,700 --> 01:22:49,220
They're freaking pricey, man.

1206
01:22:49,220 --> 01:22:50,380
They're big boys.

1207
01:22:50,380 --> 01:22:54,500
So yeah, plus there's a lot of 9254s out there, which Volter runs.

1208
01:22:54,500 --> 01:22:57,220
The next two runs, which is the new...

1209
01:22:57,220 --> 01:23:04,100
At the bottom of the new Epic structure, and then you have a bunch of...

1210
01:23:04,100 --> 01:23:06,980
Try like 9700s or 7...

1211
01:23:06,980 --> 01:23:10,900
No, 7300s, what the one previous synthesis.

1212
01:23:10,900 --> 01:23:13,180
So it's a part of a mix.

1213
01:23:13,180 --> 01:23:17,180
So the Aleo, or Aleo, or however it's...

1214
01:23:17,180 --> 01:23:18,180
Aleo?

1215
01:23:18,180 --> 01:23:19,180
Aleo.

1216
01:23:19,180 --> 01:23:20,180
The Aleo...

1217
01:23:20,180 --> 01:23:21,180
Is that it?

1218
01:23:21,180 --> 01:23:22,180
Aleo?

1219
01:23:22,180 --> 01:23:23,180
I don't know.

1220
01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:25,180
I don't know.

1221
01:23:25,180 --> 01:23:27,180
It's something I think.

1222
01:23:27,180 --> 01:23:33,660
So the Aleo testnet is actually...

1223
01:23:33,660 --> 01:23:36,900
It's a pretty high spec testnet as well for the ZK stuff.

1224
01:23:36,900 --> 01:23:41,300
So I think they were recommending 64 threads.

1225
01:23:41,300 --> 01:23:42,300
Are they?

1226
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:47,340
I mean, these new Epics, man, they are fucking badass.

1227
01:23:47,340 --> 01:23:48,900
They are so much fun to run.

1228
01:23:48,900 --> 01:23:50,900
Like, they are just nuts.

1229
01:23:50,900 --> 01:23:54,500
I can just imagine you're bringing up H top and it's just like fucking filling the screen

1230
01:23:54,500 --> 01:23:55,500
with threads.

1231
01:23:55,500 --> 01:24:00,660
96 across and then three quarters of a terabyte of RAM and then like, you know, like it's just

1232
01:24:00,660 --> 01:24:03,180
the amount of parallelization, the resistance, the sanity, right?

1233
01:24:03,180 --> 01:24:06,220
And plus each individual thread is like really fast.

1234
01:24:06,220 --> 01:24:10,180
I mean, it's not like a 7, like 50 fast, but like they're really fast on the thread side.

1235
01:24:10,180 --> 01:24:15,860
I was going to mention like that those high thread count CPUs to date have been like actually

1236
01:24:15,860 --> 01:24:20,980
pretty slow threads.

1237
01:24:20,980 --> 01:24:21,980
So like what type of...

1238
01:24:21,980 --> 01:24:22,980
It's still called, you mean?

1239
01:24:22,980 --> 01:24:23,980
Yeah.

1240
01:24:23,980 --> 01:24:28,620
Well, you know, all the threads are not taking in the turbo, but a lot of them around like,

1241
01:24:28,620 --> 01:24:35,220
you know, two, 2.2 gigahertz where, you know, that doesn't necessarily work very well for

1242
01:24:35,220 --> 01:24:36,220
some applications.

1243
01:24:36,220 --> 01:24:37,220
Correct.

1244
01:24:37,220 --> 01:24:43,660
No matter how many threads you got, if your parallelization is not fantastic in your application,

1245
01:24:43,660 --> 01:24:46,340
correct, then it can be a huge bottleneck.

1246
01:24:46,340 --> 01:24:49,420
So like these new epics, what kind of...

1247
01:24:49,420 --> 01:25:00,620
My 93.74F is a 32 core 64 thread that runs at 3.85 gigahertz that boosts to 4.5.

1248
01:25:00,620 --> 01:25:01,620
That is impressive.

1249
01:25:01,620 --> 01:25:02,620
Yeah, that's nice.

1250
01:25:02,620 --> 01:25:14,700
Well, what do you guys think about funk?

1251
01:25:14,700 --> 01:25:25,860
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