Yeah, your mic's fucked.
It's clearly fucked.
You're fucked.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent validated teams.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, the most rapidly demonetized podcast on YouTube.
And, yeah, we're like independent validates or whatever.
You serve it as the editing for the podcast version.
So I know this bit sounds much slicker on the playback than I ever do it live.
I take out all the...
You play the recording and then you just drop us right in it when something actually starts getting said.
Yeah, I take all your rambling, I just kind of cut all that out.
So usually, like we talk...
It's like 22 minutes long.
It's really...
It's like one piece of toast or maybe two pieces of toast with exactly the right amount of butter and marmalade on them.
I could tell that you're googling for the webpage word exist to look at the times right now.
I could see it in your eyes.
Is he right?
Is he actually delete by amazing words?
You're so professional.
Oh, Mike sounds professional indeed.
So we have a bunch...
There's a bunch of news this week, there's a bunch of stuff going on.
Main thing is our sponsorship of NFT Nashville, right?
Yeah, this coming Saturday.
The fourth, go look at it at...
Why are you giving me...
NFTNashville.io, sorry.
It's coming this fourth.
Our sponsor, even though our logo is not correct still, even though I brought it up like four times, that's okay.
It doesn't matter.
But yeah, it's out there.
So we're talking about...
I really wasn't planning... I'm the closest to this.
I wasn't planning on going...
By quite a long way.
By a long way.
And there's not really great directs for us there, but I was looking around.
I might try to make a...
I might try to get down there.
There's both Shane and Jorge are coming up, which is pretty exciting.
I haven't seen those guys in a couple of years, and so that would be nice to see everybody else at NFT Nashville.
So show play, it's a really good event.
And good sponsors, great town.
It's only a day.
I'm gonna try to see if I can do it.
There is one great sponsor.
One super great sponsor.
Yeah.
Agreed.
I assume you're talking about Gelato?
Yeah, Jalopy.
Yeah, so we'll see what happens.
Real S tier sponsor that we're competing with.
So the Frey has brought back his Mariner jumper for another go.
Still cold there, bud.
This is what I wear from like...
Because of the academia?
Because of future Dr. Frey?
I mean, okay.
The great thing about this very not landing joke you're making is that you can go black.
52 episodes to like this time last year or something, and you'll see this jumper come out on the podcast, which happens every week Wednesday.
2100 UTC, Game of Nodes.
Don't forget to like and subscribe.
We have a corpus, a body of work at this point in all.
Yeah, but you are always going to be the future Dr. Frey.
No one's convinced that you weren't ever going to do a doctorate.
Me? Maybe? I mean, okay.
I think you serve as tagline of drink every time you hear PhD.
I think that we need to actually...
We need to institute that one because this is going to be a very long five years.
It's already going to be a long five years because five years is a long time.
I hate to tell you.
To be honest, I think the future Dr. Frey is a lot less a beauty than the future.
Dr. Frey is a lot less abusive to me than saying the Frey all the time.
Well, the artist formerly known as Prince.
Yeah, sure.
Or the artist in the future known as Prince.
I don't even know what's going on here. This will get a bit of a future armor.
So, big week of yorping for everybody.
Big week of yorping.
The launches are the launches man. We got the DX and the Celestia and probably some other stuff that no one cares about.
But yeah, the big ones everyone's been waiting for.
Staking is going great.
The people still have not realized to not just click the first thing in the list.
So, I'm not sure how the Celestia one went because we're not validating there.
But I can tell you in the in the DYDX launch, victory goes to those with platforms and easy one clicks with their thing at the top.
Yeah, and Minsk and worse as well.
Yeah, I can say maybe the staking UIs like Jan's Alex's one during App Chain Winter where just everybody just went, oh, that's an alternate staking UI.
Bum bum bum bum bum mistake to their infra.
Well, there's also the utmost one where what's his face got basically all the delegations because he's the only one who had the active staking interface.
Well, he had, he actually had the ledger working on his.
That was a was that imperative?
No, that was.
I had like the actual only working interface between Cosmos and ETH.
I know exactly.
It still exists, right?
It's still out there.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah, yeah.
I want to say his name is Jean Carlo something from his GitHub, but Jan's Alex was his handle.
So, can we take a moment just to talk about this, this chorus one bridge interface?
Yeah, I guess.
So, so one of the first bridges to go up before any of the official bridge.
So you understand that that, okay, to the listeners, you know, we're talking about stuff that we know about.
So just a little bit of background.
There is a bridge that's required to get your dydx from the Ethereum chain to the new dydx chain.
Dydx is in their initial phase, their alpha phase, which is the staking phase.
So basically they're trying to get people to bring across their dydx onto dydx chain so that they can, you know, get the staking happening on the chain and increase the security before they decide to put up the proposal to bring across and make live the trading platform, which is going to run concurrently with v4.
So v4 and v3 are going to run concurrently. They'll have both trading platforms going until there's a clear winner and then they'll hopefully switch over to dydx chain in the future when everyone realizes that it's the best.
Now, they are in the meantime, there was the launch phase, which was basically when a few validators bought up the chain and then the other validators had an opportunity to join the chain.
And then the staking phase. So during the point between where the chain launched and when there were official bridge interface launched, a couple of validators had a bridging interface.
So the bridging contracts are created by the dydx DAO or their, you know, sub-DAOs. And those contracts are vetted, they've been through the security rigmarole, but they're also open source and they are free for anybody to create a user interface for.
So a couple of savvy validators created some bridging interfaces ready to go for launch, the ones with validators and money to spend on stuff like that.
So what one of the validators did was create a bridging interface that to complete the bridge, you had to do a stake at the end. And basically they were the only validator that you could stake to for the bridge.
So being one of two staking interfaces that were available, if anyone used that interface, then they were going to end up staked to that validator. And I don't know that it was highly used, but certainly used by some people and potentially some bigger wallets, which ended up with at one point, you know, that validator being at the top of the list with basically like a good chunk of the stake.
So their argument was that, well, you can just delegate one token to us and then you can like delegate to other people with the rest of the bridged stuff. But you know, it was obvious that it was like the delegation staked to them.
But now there's a competition, they thought of the thing, they did the thing, they made the money.
No, it's, it's fucking underhanded though, like call it what it is, like that that interface does not state that until the third step. Like I didn't go through it. I didn't finish the transaction. I didn't see if it was actually two transactions either.
So I didn't go through the whole thing. But when you actually go through that, it does state that it's a bridge, it does state that it that it's easy yada yada, blah, blah, blah. And the third thing it says, now after you do these two things, I think one was like enter the address maybe or you connect both wallets, I think is what you do.
I don't know, or you just enter the, the, or if you enter the d I did, I forget exactly how it works. But then the third step basically it says, hey, we're going to bridge it, we're going to validate, we're going to bridge it and we're going to stake it.
Now, whether that's one transaction, or multiple, I don't know, or if maybe we should, I could, I could run it if we want to run it.
But I mean, there, there's a, I mean, min scan is a little bit screwed right now. But there is a significant number of small value, d y dx transactions, stake to that validator. So the question is, did they understand that number two, the unbunding period is 30 days, which is a little bit
different than in other chains where, where I'm not sure if people come across like recognize that and I understood what that means and all that kind of stuff. And is there any other utility and d y dx other than staking? Like why would you hold it?
At the moment, it's a staking phase. So the only thing you can do is stay.
What else would you do with it?
Nothing. It's the they're encouraging people to bring across their d y dx to secure the network.
And then they're going to launch their services. Yeah. And then in the future, in the future, what would you do with it?
So d y dx is a staking coin basically, it's a governance coin. You stake it to get the fees from trading. So you don't do anything with it. You stake it.
You stake it.
It's a passive income. It's like some passive income like QG. Yeah, it's an investment, I suppose, in the, in the chain.
Whoa, investment. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Not financial advice. Wait, don't regulate. Don't regulate people with something, something, something.
It's not an investment. We're going to be saying investment. We meant highly volatile shit coin.
So at the moment, so at the moment, Cosmo station is the number one validator. And I suspect that that's because they're a more highly used platform.
They've launched their, their bridge and they have their validator at the top.
So who is the validator that front run the front run the interface then?
Corus one.
Corus one. And Mary, Mary had a more equitable interface. I don't believe you had to stake with their validator to be able to bridge it.
So Corus one, Cosmo station or at the top, there's between the top three validators, there is like, what's that 3040, about 50% of the stake in the top three.
I mean, the numbers are very low so far. The, the amount of state token is basically nothing.
And other than the top few validators that appear to have delegations outside of the from, from, you know, users, the rest of the set, I'm pretty sure is all self stake by validators just desperately trying to stay in the active set.
So we have self-stake.
We're still staked about five grand and steadily going down the list. We're five grand.
Hey, is that 5k dy dx tokens or Kanga bucks or us no, no, it's 5000 USD, probably more than that.
About 2300 dy dx. I mean, I didn't want to, but it looks like we're going to have to invest more in the dy dx just to stay in this competitive list.
So, you know, if any of you all are whales, come drop some number was number.
There's 60 valves, there's 60 validators in the set and there is another 37 in the inactive.
So, yeah, the floor is fucking lava right here. There's 60 in the set. There's 60 in the set. The floor right now is basically 1050 tokens, which is basically I think what you guys launched at Genesis, right?
About $2,000.
Sometimes I think it's about $2.40 something like that.
So it's $1400.
Yeah, it's something like that.
So yeah, we did this game like we 10,000 dollar investment buy into secure your spot.
So what happens if dy dx decide that the chain is not valuable and they sunset in a year?
I dare say that there would be some sort of snapshot and then a bridge back into the area.
Yeah, yeah, because yeah, because it's kind of interesting if like from just from a, just from an incentive perspective, like whether or not people are incentivized to move their tokens out of the ferium into
to do.
So there is actually, they just they just put it out to right there.
They probably they probably are just marketing it as that so that normal users don't give a shit.
We're calling it the ydx chain and they do have it seems some sort of staking incentive that there is it's not an inflation, but there is an admission of some kind because there is rewards accumulating.
So staking rewards or just some kind of passive accumulation of something.
No, no, no, it's it's a it's too big to be gas.
So I do believe that they passed a vote at some point to have an incentive program during this staking phase, which is actually coming out of a, you know, treasury of some kind from somewhere.
This is a little bit like Mars Mars did a similar thing, didn't it, like the first short period that was like an accelerated that was like a run in of staking and then some kind of change.
I can't maybe maybe I've remembered that wrong.
So the the draw card for D ydx is the is the trading fees.
That's that's where the draw card is for the token and D ydx chain.
And in the meantime, there is nothing. So I guess that this was a way of incentive people to use some of the treasury as staking rewards in the meantime to reward the people who were early adopters to bring across their stake.
I think they're having you know, I don't think they're having a good reach to the D ydx token holders just yet getting them to bring across their tokens.
So well, if you can't read yet, I don't know why they would write.
Well, I mean, D ydx token does nothing for trading on Ethereum.
Anyway, nothing's paired with that. Everything's paired with like usdc or whatever.
Yeah.
So, you know, or the D ydx token is basically just a governance token over there, I think.
So, but it still has value.
So I'm surprised that that has held, you know what I mean?
Like if it's not part of a trading structure and there's like, and there's no rewards that are being distributed based off that.
And if there is, you know, if those.
Well, I don't know how it works on the Ethereum, but presumably it's a similar situation to the D ydx chain where there is a distribution to the token holders, I would assume, but I could be wrong.
I haven't researched it at all.
So yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
You're right. I do.
I do see them reward there. I see about 1% actually is what I'm seeing both between reward and commission from when we bonded this, I guess, Friday or Thursday or something like that.
So you're right. There is something showing up there.
I don't know where that's coming from.
And it's definitely too much to be a gas thing because there's only very few transactions going through.
Yeah, like I mean, you're telling, I mean, honestly, the number, you can look at the number of trans, I mean, the number of transactions is still quite low, right?
And the number of individual delegators is still extremely low.
I mean, min scans reporting the Cosmos station is seven delegates, which I think is that could be, I'm not sure.
Because stations balked at the moment.
There would be a few hundred delegators, I would say.
I don't know. I mean, I do see a lot of transaction hashes and the numbers there obviously don't necessarily line up with the delegators.
So there's clearly a discrepancy there.
And that might be an index job that's broken because of the fire or whatever the hell it was happening in the in the.
Power.
Yeah, no, it was Cosmos station.
I think, yeah, I mean, they've only really had one delegation that's of any significance, which someone just dropped 150 grand on the well, $300,000 on that.
Validated a bit.
Anyway, it'd be interesting to see how it pans out in the meantime.
It looks like we're going to be putting our treasury into trying to stay in the set, which, you know, there could be, I don't know, in token terms, whether that's a good investment.
But certainly, like trying to stay in this set, I think is a good investment for the long run, particularly like when when delegations actually start to flow into it.
So I also think that you're going to like right now, I think most of these names here minus a few are mostly Cosmos names.
Once you see that once you get like real large Ethereum validators looking at this and recognizing that and they have they have the assets that Cosmos validators do not have.
I think the set changes dramatically.
So we'll see of like that's really what happens in those type of situations when you have a large amount of Ethereum users using another chain, like something like this, like those you start getting the chain layers, you start getting like, you know, you start getting the much larger organizations that have 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 million under management.
And then you start seeing some some some movement in here.
You know what I mean?
So I don't think I don't think the set is going to end up like if you look two years from now, it's not it's not a typical Cosmos validator set.
It might look at it from a VP percentage.
You might have a still very broken for VP percentage, which I would expect to have here.
But I think you'll have some very different names in here too.
Yeah, I think I think you're going to be pretty accurate there for the for the mid-term.
And even course one, I would put the course one in that in that in that list too, right?
They're they're definitely.
I think they definitely didn't get the traction they're expecting with their their state while they're they're bridging interface.
Yeah, it's it's a tall order to ask people to get something to get people to use some of this, not official and be, you know, something very new for the D Y DX token holders anyway.
So yeah, I'd be interested in this.
It'd be interesting to see.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think I mean, like you said before, like it's worthwhile probably trying to stay in the set, like what we're trying to do as well.
And it's an existing token.
It's not like we're throwing money out the window at something that has an extremely unfu uncertain future, right?
So the knowing that there is there's years here of history in terms of token price helps significantly.
Like you're not just buying like something that's just getting minted, right?
So as far as as far as the D Y DX token is concerned, right?
And so anyone listening, this is not financial advice.
This is just my back of the envelope bullshit that I did to decide whether I wanted to actually invest in the coin.
And I'm not telling anybody to go and invest in this coin.
It's just my musings, right?
So I did some back of the envelope shit and assuming that all of the token was on D Y DX chain and assuming that all of the current trading volume was on D Y DX chain, which you would not expect.
To happen for a good long time because of, you know, people have invested in bots and all that type of shit for V3.
So there's going to be some time for them to migrate over when they got them well good and ready.
But my back of the envelope fair value was based on those factors was about six bucks a token.
And that's in this bear ass market with pretty thin trading volume across the whole of crypto.
And the way I worked that out was basically taking the expected revenue, which is in a stable coin.
So it makes it a lot easier to actually make a calculation on and just predicting what the revenue per token would be.
And then what you would expect to pay for an asset in the real world, given that kind of return of about 10%.
So typically you would expect a return in the current market in the, you know, IRL probably less than that.
Like somewhere between five and seven would be what an investor would be looking for on their capital at the moment, maybe up to 10.
But because of the risk that you would associate with having it in this ecosystem, I attributed just a little bit more risk to that.
So which you expect a higher return, higher risk.
So based on about 10% return, I came up with about six bucks a token.
But, you know, that's that's an ideal factors with everything operating on DYDX chain, which probably won't happen for a long time.
So but if you imagine in the future, like once the markets actually pick up and if the DYDX chain gains traction, then they could actually be, you know, like an argument for a much higher token price based on an increase in revenue from trading fees.
I do the same for Juneau.
Do the same for Juneau.
I want to hear that level of analysis on Juneau.
What's the target price?
Because we're up 107% this week.
I can't actually make, you know, an hour.
Is that a comm listing?
I don't know. Yeah, we'll get to that.
But so I'm like, you know, I do calculations in for investments in the traditional, you know, finance area like, you know, stocks and property and stuff, just to see if we want to do any kind of investment.
And I'll tell you what, man, it is fucking much easier IRL to come up with a capital value of something.
And DYDX is literally the only thing that I've been able to apply my IRL knowledge to actually come up with something that might represent what the value of that thing might be under certain conditions.
So it's, it's been great.
So even then it can still go to zero. I mean, it's like back to the...
It's like getting in as fucking crypto, like, you know, chain could fall apart, think we get hacked, there could be no adoption of the chain.
You know, it might be really hard to get people to coax people across from that Ethereum ecosystem.
So, you know, who knows what's going to happen with DYDX chain?
Who knows what's going to happen with DYDX token?
But in any case, I done did some calculations and they don't look too terrible.
Do not invest based off those calculations, please.
Do not fucking invest based on anything we say.
DYOR, we do not provide any financial advice whatsoever.
This is the ramblings of mad people.
So take from it nothing.
Take nothing from this.
Take nothing from this podcast.
It will not benefit you IRL at all.
So anyway, in the other launch was Celestia.
Now, I know nothing of Celestia.
I was looking at the test net at one point and then was distracted by shiny things elsewhere.
So, I don't know, either of you guys shed some light on what's going on over there.
Shorty?
I know it's claimed to fame as modularity.
So, the way it's supposed to work is kind of like a,
anybody who knows anything is going to hate me for any way I describe this.
Think of it like a roll up for its own chain.
That's weird.
And then it uses other chains to create that data availability.
So, like, Kyve and Celestia would work hand in hand to create modular chains.
That's kind of the best I can describe it.
And I can't go into a night because I've only read through it like once or twice.
I think you're a little light as well.
How was the launch situation?
Let's get some info on the launch situation.
Like how did that?
Was it smooth?
Was there any bullshit?
There's always bullshit.
It was actually quite smooth.
It launched and things went.
So, wait, are any of us validating Celestia?
I joined.
Yeah.
Did you join after?
So, Chelsea, were you involved like prior to main net or you just joined after main net?
Yeah.
So, I was involved prior to main net.
I missed the call for the latest test net, which meant that I missed the genus,
but ultimately missed the genesis.
But whenever it dropped, I basically bought into the set and yopped like hell to get some delegations.
What we do.
Yep.
Yeah.
It's a game.
That's how business model across the...
Was that your thing to the foundation or was that shilling to the clubs?
A little bit of both.
A little bit of yopping and shilling.
You can't yop to them.
You can't.
Really?
That doesn't really work though, does it?
Well, I ended up getting a foundation delegation.
Yeah.
It was a yop.
Yop's work.
But you're probably doing both.
It's just that the yelp paid off.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, the shill very rarely pays off.
Yeah.
It's true.
I mean, it's paid off kind of a little bit.
It helps fill in the gaps, but the big blocks, the big blocks are foundation or well or...
Right.
It's always outside.
So, Rama's going to kill me here.
The big news of the week is the Juno temporary reversal.
Temporary reversal?
Yeah.
What is the re-crypto.com thing?
Well, yeah.
Well, I don't know why it is, but they've...
That has to be the reason.
It tokens up.
Number go up.
Happy days.
Number go up by 100% to a very small number.
50%?
Well, actually, no.
Number...
So, the ATL's around like...
I get out my fucking...
I think it's up 100%.
It's over 100% from ATL.
No, it's up...
Well, it was up.
It was up at least 200%.
It was 60 cents.
It was down...
300%.
It was down to like 14 cents or up to 60 cents.
I thought it was like 22.
Yeah, it's down to 10 cents, I think at one point.
It was pretty low.
So, it was down to 12 cents.
Right now, it's up to 316%.
But it has to say, it had at least doubled like a value, but I hadn't realized it tripled.
By the way, there's so much fucking Twitter talk around everybody talking in percentages.
It's such...
Percentages are a funny thing.
They don't really work the way you think they work.
So, just to talk only...
I know half the percentages work.
But everybody just talks in percentages and doesn't talk in actuals.
And I think it's such a misleading type of thing when you only talk in...
Yeah, it would be good to...
It's better to just do multiples, isn't it?
It's like two times or three times.
Two times?
Yeah.
But like...
There's a very easy numbers to work with.
Yeah.
I mean, in the last four months, it's done a 0.05x.
Yeah, I mean, right.
Like 99%.
Related question in the...
Yeah, Juno's up about a million percent and is now only 89% down, says Ben Davis in the chat.
Yeah.
And also pointedly asked, is how working it seems broken on my laptop?
It is...
Well, for some definition of working, it is working.
It's just that the UI is still disabled.
Because after working out what was going on with the bug that happened when Juno BlockTimes halved,
we haven't worked out what the best way is to actually fix that.
So, the working...
Basically, you need to change it, give people the ability to...
Oh, God, there's two ways of doing it.
It's basically a configuration change, rug pulling.
It doesn't even rug pull.
It just makes...
It just orphan steak in a weird way.
And no funds actually have been touched like it's a blockchain, right?
But the way you get back into a recoverable state and then ensure that everybody gets their steak back,
there's a more manual way and there's a less manual way, and there's also a little bit of a problem in that the Dow itself has been...
So, the Dow controls the contracts, which are how you change this and fix it and do migrations and stuff like that.
The other problem is that in order to make the Dow quarry, some of the founders have to stake.
And we were the ones who had our steak locked when the bug triggered.
So, there's a whole bunch of intersecting annoying things that mean that coordinating getting it back running is actually quite hard.
Although AS Weaver actually wrote some code to automate a big portion of that, which is on my pile to review.
But at the moment, there is an Aptes Preview Net going on, which is absorbing all of my non-research time.
So, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on.
It would be my TLDR.
And Ben Davis provides a chat GPT summary of that diatribe with his So No.
Small contracts are hard.
It's not working.
Simple No would have been fine.
So, some other fun stuff this week.
Robert Kelly-ya has...
Robert Kelly-ya, I don't know.
Kelly-ya?
Kelly-ya.
Kelly-ya?
Well, I don't know.
It's kind of fun because he's got ya at the end of his name.
Thanks for the memes, Robert.
Has done a psychoanalysis of the cosmos ecosystem, which is kind of fun.
Now, I'm not the authority on this particular topic.
I did read through the very lengthy synopsis on the cosmos ecosystem about a week ago.
Most of it slipped my mind to now.
But basically, it just outlines this gentleman, and he is a qualified professional, I believe.
His observations of the culture and the...
What would you say?
Like, it's the culture and like a few of the main personalities.
And how that reflects on the cosmos ecosystem as a whole.
And it's not a glowing review.
He does say at one point, however, that cosmos is not a cult.
And you know, the thing that I've noticed about things that are definitely not cults
is that you have to say they're not a cult unless somebody might get the wrong idea that they are a cult.
For example, I'm a member of a racing bicycle club.
And I think often when we're in the pub, we just sort of...
There would just be a lull in the conversation and somebody would be like,
but this is not a cult.
This is not a cult.
And everybody just nods, laughs, and they go back to their bit because that's a normal thing to do when you're in a not a cult.
I read that as well.
That was part of his Robert's initial comment.
That must have been since...
That's a weird comment to come with, like walking into this and having those conversations,
it must have been repeated to him.
He must have heard that it's a cult multiple times in his conversations.
For them to him to regurgitate and say it's not a cult.
That's not usually something he would just start out with.
Why would he think in those things?
There are two things, and I don't know which one is funnier, right?
Is that people repeatedly said to him, this is a cult.
Or people repeatedly said to him, this isn't a cult.
Both of which are very, very normal behavior as I've established.
Those things definitely happen.
There's no doubt about it.
I go into a shared office two days a week and I sit down at my desk with my coffee that I've got from the coffee shop along the road.
I open the paper for you.
Just while I'm drinking the coffee for a couple of minutes before I start my working day.
One of the not my coworkers, because obviously it's a shared working space,
somebody will drift in and as they pass my desk, they'll say, morning,
they'll look around and say, it's not a cult.
Then they'll go to their desk and start their working day.
These are very normal social interactions that you just have throughout your working day, throughout your everyday life.
I go to drop my baby off at a swimming group and they're just like, come pick him up at three.
It's not a cult.
I want to take my baby back, please.
I originally found this, I think on the day he posted it, on the 24th, I got linked to it or something similar to that.
Then there was some Bendy and No Man, whatever that is, and there's Tricky and even Zaki's in there and things like that.
There were some nice reasonable replies to it and everything else.
Then I forgot it, like you, I forgot about it.
Then I came back to him, I should go back and look at that thread and of course, completely off the fucking rails.
Of course, it went the cosmos way, which was just fucking drunk driving directly into a tree.
You can see the fucking, there's a link in there.
Jay made a post on the 28th and it's fucking huge.
Jay's post is it's so good that I struggle to believe that Chris Morris didn't write it.
It feels like the sort of shit that you would get in one of those dark early 2000s British comedies.
Like the one where there's a completely deadpan news segment where a pedophile dresses as a school, bear with me, and a bunch of kids go to school.
Then they interview a local authority member and they're like, this is the one thing we didn't want to happen.
And you're just like, this is so bizarre and whatever.
But he has this whole, the post, if you've not seen it, is amazing.
It's like it's scripted.
He has maybe 300 to 400 words and a whole bunch of bullet points on the history of cosmos.
And we're talking going back to pre-tendament, right?
So like all of the all in bits stuff, Ethan's bookman, his original involvement and how he started working on it as part of his thesis to describe it and test it when tendermate came along.
And then after like a sort of a number of bullet points, 400 words, maybe like a long piece of the history of the ecosystem.
There's this paragraph.
I've actually got to read it out.
It's definitely not libelous to just read out what somebody's put on the internet publicly, is it?
So there is this paragraph, right?
So before this, it's just a technical person describing the formation of an organization and the technical hurdles to overcome to get there.
It's very, very normal for technical people.
Before you read the paragraph, describe how far into the fucking post.
It's a lot of bullet points, right?
And it's several years of history.
I mean, it's going from I think 2012 is when that description of history starts.
We're now at like 2016, 2017, maybe 2018, right, in the history of what would become the cosmos.
When this paragraph appears, during this time, I learned that Chris Harbin self-admittedly saved George Soros in Thailand during the IMF incident that he is ex-MI6,
laundered money for Obama using jet fuel.
I later learned that he is also the lead funder for Brexit.
He is also clearly a major funder of Ethereum.
He also apparently had a major role in Tether, the project that was founded by the infamous Brock Pierce.
I'm not even going to talk about the string of deaths of my friends around that fellow.
The first half of it reads like a drill tweet.
Like just the first censor you do, it reads like a jima plot lines.
And then the Patriots were actually the shadow Patriots.
200 meters below Hudson Bay and they were running a shadow New York.
It wasn't the real New York, but it looked like normal New York, but it had robots in it.
You know, like, whoa, Kajima, calm down, calm down.
It's okay to like not fill the entire game with words.
You can have some gameplay.
But then, and then the best thing about this paragraph, right, that paragraph comes in.
No judgments anyway.
And then he just segues without missing a beat back into the history of the formation of his energy tendermint foundation, ICF, all that kind of stuff.
And you're like, did I imagine?
Did I hallucinate that other bit?
And then it's okay because he does several follow up posts, including just quoting an extensive piece of scripture.
So, you know, the wheels come off again after a little while.
But just for that one moment, you're like, did I really read that?
Did I mention that?
It's in there.
I also like how later he talks about, he like, he has this very small admission of insanity.
He goes after I resigned from AIB by popular demand in friends, though nobody saying would have agreed if they were in my shoes.
Like, well,
You said the quiet bit out loud.
Yeah, exactly.
There is one line in here that just says, Jesus is king of kings.
Yeah, you've seen his rap.
There's a three point wrap up right at the bottom where it says something like those.
Yeah, there's like those that walk, that tolerate evil are evil.
Jesus is the king of kings, something, something, something.
And you're like, cool.
And then the best thing is that the post directly after it just just treats.
It's like several posts in a row, right?
The post directly after that just treat just treats that like it didn't happen.
And it's just like, hmm, some interesting organizational points.
However, I'm going to take your, your OPE to pieces and they just like basically just slate the guy.
They're like, I've crawled through your LinkedIn and I have some questions about your professional like credibility.
And it's like, wow, okay, somebody, somebody in crypto is questioning credentials.
Let's get the popcorn lads.
It's funny that the, well, the last word in his original post is checkmate.
Yeah.
I saw that.
Yeah.
Anyway, this is the red.
And then there's Ferris C. at 30s.
Like who this guy, not, not J, but Robert, like where do you come from and who's paying this and why is this now?
And then of course you have like today I saw all the posts around, like, do you know what the hell you're talking about?
And like, wow, would I trust you?
And it seems like your career is kind of a shit show, like all that kind of thing.
Like, well, they're not those, these conclusions are correct or not.
But, and then like, to this guy's credit, man, when he, when he responds to things, he, he doesn't lose his temporary keeps a pretty even keel on it.
And he's actually given a lot more personal information than I would in these situations related to background and other types of things that were asked.
Yeah, I saw that.
I was like, you really shouldn't have.
Yeah.
Like you should read the room, dude.
You should, you should take heed from Prop 16 and, you know, listen to game of notes and learn some of the mistakes that we're making.
Jacob's in here now.
Yeah, this is a, this is a hell of a thread.
So take it back to like, yeah, we're doing, we're doing the news, right?
And we have opinions on these.
What, what, what's your, what's your take on the, the OP that kicked off that thread?
Like what's your take on that, that post?
I know we've all read it.
I, you know, I thought that, I mean, I don't know how much history this guy has.
I mean, he says he doesn't have that much.
I mean, some of the things related to pain and trauma in the community, the fact that there's a lack of leadership and there's, but there's an incredible amount of hard work going on.
Like a huge amount of fatigue with the bear.
Like, I think all his points are directly on, right?
And I think he makes excellent points through all those.
I think, I think the idea of, I think the idea of like this leadership needs to come together.
I mean, I would agree with that, but it just seems like the people in these roles are, are, are not wired for that type of communication.
I think their egos are very large, but their skins are very thin.
And so it turns into like a, he said, she said, yada, yada, I'm carrying this baggage and like, and like people who you think are adults in those situations, even in this thread come across as extremely.
Like, just very childish, I think, in terms of doing some of these types of things.
So is it broken enough or that like, if this is the original eight or whatever the fuck it is related to that, is that going to fix itself?
I would probably say no, but, but I don't think that.
But on the other hand, I don't think, I don't think necessarily that the cosmos future has anything to do with this shit show.
Like there'll be other ways that this technology continues, whether or not this group figures it out or if they give a shit or if they blow themselves up or whatever else.
So, but I thought, I thought his points are right on, I think from a being from a positive perspective, hey, this, these are things that happen and, you know, we need to like use communication and collaboration and well-being and all types of, I think is probably correct.
I don't think this, this group here, like these names that are on this list have any possibility of doing that.
And then even when you talk about like trying to pull that together, everybody screams the centralization.
And I also don't think that having 10,000 names in that, in that meeting makes sense either.
I think that's probably the wrong way.
And I don't think I get solved through governance of like the whole community.
I don't think you can figure it out either.
So, yeah, I don't know.
I'm curious what you guys think.
Don't leave me out of fucking living here.
It's just would have been a perfect time to hit the fucking rug.
And that's the end of the podcast, folks.
And there we go.
Well, I don't know.
So, my take would be like, I read that and I thought, yeah, like, like CERP did, there were some pretty spot on points.
I think that like there have been every single generation of leaders in the cosmos or even just people who work in the cosmos have like a variety of trauma points that are not actually resolved.
Like, like as in quit your job, trauma points.
You know, there's like, you have everybody has at some point like, okay, most people have maybe maybe not everybody like work to job where something so bad happened that you were like, fuck, I need to quit this job.
I didn't see literally get any other job than this job.
And until you're out and done.
And it's in the rearview mirror, you're just like, and like that combination of burnout and trauma that he kind of identifies like, I think is very common to a number of different people and a number of different teams for a number of different reasons.
Like, and you can see it whether it's just, you know, founders falling out and like bad conflict negotiation conflict resolution, or, you know, like, I think there was a lot of trauma in the atom community because of the the 2.0.
Obviously, you know, there was all the stuff with proper 16 June and hope stuff around that.
And that's the one it's like very close to my heart, I suppose, because you know, speaking frankly, I think that what happened.
Like Juno is a really good example of something that looks like it looks like a down looks like a community, but the reality is, it was run by a very small group of people of which within that group of people there were even fewer people that were actually doing the majority of the work.
But the people who benefited most from, let's be real, the people who benefit most in the cosmos from most of these chains are the founding teams and specifically the founders, right?
So there's two things here, which is like number one, do you even think that so he's like, like, get all the funds to get to go to a wellness retreat, whatever, like, I'm very, very, very oversimplifying.
But like the real problem is actually that if you're serious about the cosmos being a new type of economic system, right?
The problem we have in the UK, right? Historically, is that we grandfathered in the land rights of the people that conquered in 1066, right?
And the country can't move on. You can't move on when the people that were there right at the very beginning own the whole party, like own a huge portion of the land and by extension own the wealth, own the policies.
Own the national consensus, all that sort of stuff. That is the problem in the cosmos, right?
And the fact that this guy can speak to such a small group of people for what is ostensibly a very large ecosystem and say, these people need to sort it out because they're having an outsize impact on the ecosystem is just like saying,
Rupert Murdoch controls too much of the media. It's the same problem in a completely new context or it's a variation on the same problem. So I think I kind of read all of his points and go, oh, yeah, but the remedy is different, right?
Which is that you need to get it to the point, like the chango thing we discussed the other week about Jack, which I thought was actually a less fair take down, is that you need to like get to the ecosystem will be healthy when you get to a point where you're
not always looking over your shoulder at the small group of original people that were there. Unless you can move past that the whole ecosystem and GMI. And to some extent, the more economic power they have as well, the more the ecosystem is completely, it's just centralization, right?
It's just centralization. And the fact that you can even speak to this group of people are having an outsize influence is evidence. It's a bearish indicator of centralization in the ecosystem. And that's the thing I took away from it. Amongst other things, which is that, you know, I think also a lot of the stuff with the incentives and the who's getting hurt and all that
sort of stuff is very, very, very lopsided. It was the other thing I was thinking. So yeah, I don't know. It said a lot of things that I guess I knew and I've been thinking about. But you know, when somebody just collects a lot of thoughts into one place and you're like, that's put very well.
Yes, I agree with it.
I thought it was. And he's pretty positive around how he feels like he's very positive. I think throughout that whole thing around and also related to how he thinks it can be fixed. I mean, I don't know these individuals really at all, right?
A couple, like just casually and things like that. But being an outside individual looking at it, I really struggle with it being fixed. And to your point, like, should it be fixed? Or is it important for it to be fixed? Right? And is that a preset that has to happen for this to move forward?
Or is it just better that, you know, honestly, that some of the bigger chains today with what we're talking about the IDX coming in and I have Celestia and, you know, we're gonna have these other kind of large rollouts coming in. Maybe there's a new guard, you know, and the informals will always be there and
there's gonna have those spots and we're joking about that as well in terms of, you know, there's gonna be certain names that are always at the dance and in terms of validation and other types of things. But maybe they'll maybe the how those groups set direction is not the same team that's setting direction anymore.
I certainly have that hope. Like if you look at the skip team, or Kajira, or, I guess even D.Y.D. at DX, like those are really strong teams that don't have that baggage that all the Cosmos OGs do like skip. I always love interacting with the skip.
They're such friendly folks. They're wicked smart. Same goes for like code hands, even though he won't join the podcast. Like they're just good folks to work with. And there's competition between them. Absolutely. D.Y.D.X. and Kajira are directly competitors. But there is an enmity, right? It's healthy competition. And there is outright enmity between the Cosmos OGs.
Yeah, sure. It was you do wonder if it's just like one of those things where you have toxicity at the top and it begets toxicity in an organization and then that that organization, you know, most of the other the kind of OG orgs and validates and a lot of that stuff was the proliferation of people from that.
That environment, right? And it's that classic thing, right? You know, people always say the people who are bullied become bullies, right?
I think as like as the ecosystem, and you know, this is sort of following on from points that you guys have been making, but as the secret ecosystem matures, I think those crazy voices will get less and less and orgs and, you know, well organized money will come in and things will be a lot more sane in like another couple of years.
The whole way that the ecosystem works is just there is a lot of small teams. There's a lot of strong personalities. There's a lot of fucking crazy people. But I think as time goes by, like those voices are going to get diluted by others that people actually want to fucking listen to.
I mean, the drama is still be there. There will still be like an outlet for those who like to punish themselves with drama to engage with.
Yeah. There's also another thing which is just like a personality thing. I think the ecosystem overwhelmingly has privileged founders or like personalities who are representatives who are essentially the marketer. So there's like a very strong connection between fucking shilling, I suppose, like, and so leadership and shilling and being loud.
Those three things have all been conflated, right? And the thing you don't see, what's striking to me is on very few of the teams do you see servant leaders, right? Which is, I know it's a dull fucking corporate meme organization or design word, right?
But you would expect to see that, right? Like I've-
I don't even know that term. What is that term?
I've worked for literal psychopaths who could see that it was in their best interest to lead in that style and so adopted it.
Well, servant leadership is like when you sort of-
Is it by example, you mean? Like from a perspective or something?
It's like leading from the middle of a group. Yes, by example, but not by being like, I am the leader, we're going to do this thing. It's like consensus leadership. And when you look at- there's like a really good description of the servant leader was like quite often if you go to a team in an engineering org.
And this person should, by the way, probably be like the lead engineer or something, but if it's not, then you have a problem with that team.
You go to the team and you basically just like watch them working and you see essentially who is the one who's keeping the group dynamics functioning and everybody's sort of knocking along.
And there's loads and loads and loads of different ways that people try and like automate this or put right books about it or whatever, whatever, whatever.
But it's just a personality thing. Some people are good at it, right? They're good at motivating people, they're good at looking after people.
They're good at essentially like looking after people around them. Servant leadership is really kind of in the name, right?
At least that's how I define it and that's how I've seen it acted out, right?
But those people are quite often not the ones when people go to that team and they're like who is like the main person talked to on this team.
It wouldn't necessarily be that person, even though they are the key person, they are the leader, they are the one that's making the whole party happen.
And I think like you do, but then I have seen another place where that person specifically is the CFO or is the COO.
Sure.
And they've made a conscious decision despite the fact they could be very alpha, they could be whatever to be like, no, I need to actually like kind of, yeah, even if it's just self-interested, like nurture this group of people and make sure that this whole thing is happening.
Rather than just being like kind of in it for the ego, you know, like in it because my balls are big on the leader.
Interesting.
Interesting thing about here is that like, I would assume I actually feel that that most of the individuals that are involved in this thing are tried to be that servant leader.
Like they're all, I think for the most part, I think they're all technically capable, they're all either in the engineering side or are leading engineering, obviously.
It's not so much that, but and I don't know if they all play that, hey, I'm in the massive role.
I actually don't think that's necessarily the case.
Like I don't think they have that ego where they have to be viewed as being a leader, at least at least the ones in these names that I've seen in here.
But the interesting part of that is, is it seems like whenever there's a disagreement, it constantly goes back to that person is being decevious or they're either being, they're either being, they're either being like unfair or they're doing something sneaky or they're doing something behind the scenes.
Like it kind of seems like it automatically instantly goes to a bad place or they don't feel like their contributions are noticed or somebody puts their name on something even though we developed it as a team.
Like it all becomes that type of thing.
And I'm not sure if that is, if that is, if those things are true number one, or if it's more about they want to, that somebody wants to be, wants to be viewed as an individual versus as part of this group that's creating those types of things.
But man, it sure seems like it fucking devolves into name calling and bullshit pretty quick, at least, at least in the conversations that I've seen.
Like it sure seems to fall apart fast, right?
Like if somebody's name is like not on a GitHub thing, it's not like, hey, can you add my name because I was involved.
It seems like it fucking turns into a, like they're having a parade on the fucking street and everybody's burning torches.
I've seen that happen more than once.
It just goes absolutely out of control.
And you just, I don't know.
A lot of that is how people talk to each other.
I think like it's just kind of, there's probably a better way of putting it, but it's like a lack of respect.
Like it's people being very online and especially over text as well.
The fact that a lot of the communications via text and people don't like take five to, you know, you're like, text is really hard to get across nuance and almost nobody's talking over voice.
And although, you know, some, when the chips are down, some voice calls do happen and I can remember some when people were just screaming till the mic distorted down the, down the virtual phone at each other.
So, you know, these, and this is like, like, I've never seen like the level of bad behavior, but then you just like in any organization I work for, but then, you know, this is a bunch of nerds on the internet, right?
These are all dolls, whatever.
And I, by the way, I Googled the definition of servant leadership just to check myself, right?
And the one liner summary is a leader who prioritizes achieving concrete objectives as a team rather than accumulating power or organizational power, or like not to riot if you like.
So it's that thing of like, somebody might not even be aware of who they are as a leader, but they would be able to say, oh, that organization ship that thing.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, the CTO.
Right.
Literally, don't know.
Like, I think, like, to Schultz's point, like, I would put like skipping that in that case.
Skipper like that.
Yeah.
Like, seems like that.
And I'm just seeing like that.
The secret team kind of seems like that.
I don't know that team very well enough, but like,
We know and love us off basically.
Like that, like his vibe to me is always like, we're, we're executing this as a team, right?
Like, it's never about him.
Like, there's obviously worked a lot of teams like that, right?
So.
Which is interesting, isn't it? Because as soon as you like, we sort of looked at that post me like, oh, yeah, you know, blah, blah, blah.
And then as soon as we stopped to think about it, we actually have thought of a number of teams who maybe don't in any way play.
And I know we've only listed a few there, but it just, it does go to show you though, in terms of mental space, how much of the air in the room is being sucked up by a few people and like the drama.
Yeah.
And you are like, like this story is, I mean, honestly, this, I was being nice.
This story is a fucking disaster.
Like this is, it's a goddamn embarrassment.
It really is like, like, like.
I thought it was a great read.
It reminded me of that.
Oh, yeah.
This is a really niche into that deep cut.
I don't even know if this made it out of the UK, but there was a band back in the early 2000s called my virtual, right?
And they were very one, they were very like flash in the pan.
They did one album.
It was like, like quite big rock album then disappeared.
Like 10 years later, they came back and they were going to crowdfund an album.
And it was just a shit show.
And it was a shit show that went on for years.
They just didn't get it together.
Maybe they used the money for drugs.
It was all this other stuff.
And there was this one thread on a music forum called drowned and sound, right?
And it was just somebody originally started it was just like, I'm just trying to get a handle on what the fuck has happened here.
Here is my bullet point list of what I think has happened so far.
And it was like, you know, this date CD is supposed to ship.
Don't ship.
Blah, blah, blah.
This thread ended up becoming its own like driver magnet.
It went on for multiple years.
The band were ostensibly creating sock puppet accounts to post.
And then people were threatened with libel.
It was amazing.
It was like the most fucked up thread on a forum ever.
And it was hilarious, like deeply hilarious.
And there were just too many personalities all just talking across each other.
It was mad.
And it was, it went on for years.
This reminds me of that.
Just like it reminds me of opening up that thread after a long time and just being like, huh, wow, they're still doing this.
Huh.
Well, it's got a 14 day timeout.
I already set a reminder to make sure at 13 days I'm going back in there and make sure if anybody keeping the sucker alive.
This thing's not getting archive.
We got to go stir the pot.
Ask some bad question.
Yeah.
What about this?
Well, I mean, that's kind of an interesting part of him posting in the Cosmos Hope forum specifically, right?
It feels like if you wasn't expecting a bad reaction like that, he would have posted it like somewhere that wasn't the Cosmos Hope forum.
Like that obviously is the best place to put it.
But it could have been like on medium or something posted to Twitter.
He got good feedback though, right?
Don't you think?
I mean, he did.
He went off the rails.
I should say.
Yes.
Before he got off the rails, he had great feedback.
Yeah.
But posting there means that he, it had to go off the rails.
There wasn't any other option, right?
True.
Yeah.
So I think, yeah, it was inevitable.
Yeah.
I think, I mean, Robert, we never met you.
If you're looking for a follow on business, dude, I would look elsewhere.
Like, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know if he, I don't know if this is a really a workshop.
Let's go rent a, let's go rent a house somewhere and figure this out.
I think I agreed.
I was a little salty about this topic as well.
Even in the show notes, I called it out, but, but like, I agree.
Like he's, he's trying to find if there's, if there's business here, which is like, who is it?
Right.
Um, but I mean, geez, can you imagine facilitating this fucking conversation?
Good God, what?
It would be like Dr. Phil, it would be worse.
It would be like Jerry Springer.
They'd be punching each other.
You'd have to like Robert, Robert, you'd have to like, you'd have to like the
knives out of the drawers and everything.
Like you'd really have to, yeah.
It'd be madness.
I'd bring out like a midget or a hooker or some fucking devs.
It's like, you know, again, oh my goodness.
Yeah.
It'll, I mean, I think there's a lot of things to reflect on, but I guess the
conclusion is like, at least I'm like, you know, you could give those people all the
therapy in the world.
And I would imagine some of them aren't getting therapy independently because of
the amount of, as we mentioned, trauma and bullshit that's happened.
Um, but it's not like, if that helps the ecosystem, then that is just a sign that
the ecosystem and GMI.
So, you know, a better solution would be to try and ship some more stuff and
maybe like break the old, old guards grip on the eco really.
That'd be kind of cool.
Remember, says he wants to get funded.
It's very clear.
Well, no shit, dude.
Like the guy is out there to try to solve problems like this.
And this is a fucking, fucking problem.
So yeah, of course.
Yeah.
He wants to, yeah, no shit.
He's not doing it for, yeah, that's a problem.
The next few problems like this.
He'll be wearing the T shirt on the Cosmos forum guy and like candy.
So have any of you seen the Metallica documentary, some kind of monster?
No.
Maybe I have.
It's a while ago.
Okay.
So the premise of it is that they're going to make an album.
And then things just fall off the rails.
And astonishingly, they already have the documentary makers in, right?
And then they have a six month gap.
This happens to like 10 minutes into the film, right?
Because Hetfield is just like, no, actually need to go to rehab.
Can't do this fucking album.
And then they come back in and they have essentially like, he's in rehab.
He's like, I can only work four hours a day on the album.
Here are my terms.
We're going to have to make it work this way.
And astonishingly, they have this even film it.
They talk to the documentary maker and the documentary makers are like, dudes, this is fucked up.
We can just fucking ice this.
We can come back next album cycle.
And Lars Orri is like, no, man, no, man, we got to do this.
We got to be honest, man, we got to do this.
And you're like, this is the dumbest thing you have ever said, Lars.
But thank you for allowing this car crash to continue for another fucking 60 minutes.
Amazing.
It is literally like, it is kind of like spinal tap, but real.
It's just a complete shit show.
But the best bit of it is that they get a essentially like an organizational psychologist, right?
To come in for the band.
And there's a bunch of intensely awkward scenes that happen as a result.
Like he tries to get them together with Dave Mustaine, who they fired in the 80s.
And there's this scene where Dave Mustaine is talking like,
he's a massively successful artist in his own right, right?
Big four of thrash, all this stuff.
And it's like these grown men trying to like have a conversation about the way they've hurt each other.
And he's just like, yeah, man, I guess I've never really got over it on this kind of shit.
What the fuck?
This is fucking insanity.
Like it's the whole thing is totally insanity.
And this guy feels a little bit like that guy, Phil.
He's called Phil in the, in some kind of monster.
You're just like, you sure, you sure you know what you're getting into when you take this gig?
Do you really want this?
Do you really want, I mean, the buddy's good, but do you really want this?
By the way, if you've not seen some kind of monster, hard recommend, like just get that on, get it on.
It's madness.
All right, we done with this stupid thing.
Shall we do a drill tweet of the week as a Palak Clanser?
Who wants to go?
No, we've been talking over him for an hour.
You've been talking about, stop, stop, stop.
You're in the special thanks section.
And my thumb was lying on a Twitter user called come boy.
See you on me, right?
I wonder if that user still exists.
Okay, let's try that again.
Stop.
Oh, we're in this section marked racism left page or right page.
Oh, is there any posts by Jake one?
Well, there's a, there's a very famous one on this page, actually.
Let's do it.
Pick that one.
Yeah.
Well, no, but if you know anything about drill, you already know this tweet.
So I want that one.
I want that one.
It's the, for those that know, it's the dial tweet, right?
If you know drills corpus, you'll know the dial tweet, the racism dial tweet.
Yeah, but none of us know that one.
Yeah, just no one knows the corpus.
Stop beating around the bush.
All right, whatever. So, okay, turning a big dial that says racism on it and
constantly looking back at the audience for approval, like a contestant on the
price is right.
That's a good one.
That is used a lot on, on the internet or was at least, I guess, in the, in the
mid 2010s.
Happy days.
Seems like a lot of the comedy acts these days.
And not necessarily just racism, but general outrageous things.
And they're like, you can see the sort of testing the audience to see how far
they can go until they sort of get a little bit of pushback.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I mean, well, yeah, people start standing up and walking out.
I mean, I guess there's been a period of time where like, okay, there's been a bit
of a cultural war going on for a variety of reasons, I guess.
And I think the liberal arts consensus of which comedians kind of broadly fall
into has been at least, at least my impression of comedy is somebody who goes
to a comedy festival every year.
The biggest one in the world, I think the Edinburgh fringe is that like people
have decided to punch up, not punch down with the way they talk in their comedy
on the whole.
So it would also make sense that like, you know, culture is a pendulum, right?
It swings one way, it swings the other.
It would kind of make sense to maybe the generation below are just like, yeah,
fuck disabled people.
And then they look around and wait to see if anybody leaves the room.
They're like, right, nailed it.
I'm funny.
Not knowing that not knowing that that was literally like every joke in the
1970s, right?
But yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
Don't know.
So yeah, that was drill tweet of the week.
Do you want to?
That wasn't much of a pal of cleanser.
Still thinking about that stupid thing.
I could do another one.
That's all right.
You asked, you asked, so here we are, right?
Say when?
Stop.
We're in the trolls section.
Left page or right page?
Left.
Readers choice.
All the trolls talk shit about my profession as an artisanal ass wiper.
But when they see my fine selection of towels, they beg for my services.
There you go.
That's kind of like that cosmos, a cosmos forward post, isn't it?
It's a little bit.
Yeah.
This is why me, the drill tweets, they're kind of relevant.
They're oddly relevant.
So, all right, let's move on.
Does anyone here know what in the fuck the snow trace dot io is?
So Avalanche, sea chain explorer.
But like, so the news is, is that they're shutting down, right?
And this is because of licensing fees from EtherScan,
of which they do look pretty similar, of wait for it, $2 million.
Is that a year?
Do you know?
Is that what that is?
That, wow.
Apparently per year.
It's a denominated in per year around here.
How is this even monetized?
It's not, right?
I don't know.
How it's no trace, monetize.
Well, maybe they would look to get institutions to pay for it.
I would assume so, right?
I don't have to come from Avalanche or something.
That's got to be there.
I just want like, I mean, there's 100 copies of this.
There's same thing for, I think, optimism, arbitrum base uses it, I think.
I think BNB chain uses it.
There's a million copies of the same structure, right?
Anything at the ERC 20 is somehow taking that and repurposing it for their needs.
Who in the world is selling licensing fees of $2 million?
It's, I mean, again, I don't know where, I mean, if they think that there's $5 million
of revenue that they're generating off this and they want to charge two for the use of
it, I can understand that.
I just don't see where the hell the revenue side comes in.
So where is the, like, you know, what do you do?
Business with usurper.
A weekly podcast on doing elementary maths to reveal that a company is unprofitable and
has no revenue stream.
Yeah.
Well, what the hell?
Like, what do they get for their $2 million?
This is what I'm referring to.
Like, yeah, okay, they've built the thing, they license the code base.
But like, in what reality would that kind of like licensing fee be required to maintain
the software plus profit?
Like that is, you know, I feel like that's a markup of about, I can 20 X on expenses.
I mean, it's huge.
I don't know anything about it.
I mean, look at enterprise software.
I mean, for Jesus Christ, like if you want to get in that situation, like look at SAP
revenues or look at those types of things, like they charge massive numbers for those
licenses, but they're not.
SAP charge astonishing amounts of money.
But again, like so hard to have costs that are so small years of running.
And organizations literally fail trying to institute it.
So, you know, as soon as we start comparing to, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, if you're questioning ETH scan, if they feel that, if they think that they can
charge that, they can charge whatever the hell they want, right?
And if they're the highest most used tool set, you can say like they're gouging.
But okay, it's there to slow.
They really have a grip on that market.
It's back to like everything about, well, okay, not everything.
A lot of things about ETH are just like mad centralized, right?
That's why it's easy to use.
That's why it has the user base at the moment.
What does MintScan license for?
Do you know?
Do they license that up?
APIs, I guess.
No, they actually license to UI though.
Oh, no.
So, all right.
So, Ram has clarified that it's all the underlying infrastructure indexing hosting and all that
type of stuff.
So, that means the software.
It's a solution.
Yeah, that makes a little bit more sense.
I read that as being the software licensing fee to use that code base.
No, no, because the code isn't open.
They have a whole platform.
Like it's the ETH scan.
So, it's a...
They deliver a bespoke version for Avalach, right?
Yeah, Explorer as a service.
Yeah, it's Explorer as a service.
Yeah.
So, you guys, there are two guys about the guy I met over here in Australia, and he was
like telling me about the exchange as a service.
Do you guys know about that?
No.
Basically, you just pay them money and they spin up a fucking exchange for you and you
put your badge on it.
Stands the reason that that exists, yeah?
Yeah.
I was like, you what now?
Fuck, all right.
Fair enough.
That'll work.
Sounds good.
Yeah.
But anyway, they kind of blew me out a little bit.
We need a DYDX bridge as a service.
Why don't we do that?
Yeah.
Stay great to the Avalachs.
Yeah, like bridge as a service, but backhandedly...
It's just bridges straight to one wallet.
Yeah, you can select anyone you want to wallet.
From the fucking...
From the list of validators, but it's just...
From the one validator.
Okay, like just being facetious, this is not financial advice.
This is definitely not financial crime advice.
But if you just made a drop down on a UI and it says, hey, you're going to bridge to this
wallet and the drop down allows them to select their wallets on the other end of the counterparty
bridge and they click it and then they hit the button and then the wallet says, hey,
you're about to do this transaction.
What percentage of users do you think would actually look in that code, that payload,
to verify that what they had selected in the UI was definitely the same as the payload?
At least a handful.
I reckon...
I like the blind signing in Metamask better because that doesn't tell you shit.
That's right.
So you do a platform turn on blind signing.
Okay.
I'm not worried.
Because I haven't used Metamask in literally years.
I don't hold anything on ETH anymore.
I don't really do anything on ETH.
I don't care.
Whatever.
I'm kind of an anti-Boomer.
I'm an anti-ETH Boomer.
Anyway.
You don't like money?
I don't like making money, which is why I don't get involved in Ethereum.
No, no.
I made money in Ethereum and then I was like, this technology is boring.
I want to go work on it.
I don't want to go...
Who gives a fuck?
Anyway, it's boring, not interested.
Made some money trying to get the fuck out.
Ethereum, that was that.
Do you really not see the payload in Metamask?
Because I remember seeing...
There is a setting on your ledger that says to enable blind signing.
What that is is that it just does not tell you all of the crap in the transaction.
It's just a much shorter message encoded.
It's two clicks instead of 45, but a lot of things don't work.
A lot of these dodgy ass platforms that people just fucking click their buttons on, have
got this thing called blind signing and you just don't see what the transaction is really.
You see them in Metamask, but you don't see the details.
You can't verify addresses within ledger.
Especially for Spark.
It's mostly...
It's all small contract type of things.
It's not so much like just simple staking or...
It's horrifying.
It's funny that it's the option of blind signing.
That sounds perfectly safe.
There will be millions of people out there doing it.
I have a new idea for a business strategy for Game of Nodes.
I'll tell you guys off the stream though because you're going to like it.
Do any of you know how to...
No, we're not going to do that.
We get front run all the time without fucking ideas.
Even our financial crime ideas get front run.
Our TYDX bridge idea.
Yeah, we're talking about that just like three months ago.
We'll find the clue.
Yeah, we can be like the Simpsons of financial crime.
Where you go back in time and you find the Simpsons already predicted something that
actually then has come to pass in the 2000s.
We'll be like the Game of Nodes.
We'll just have thought of all the different iterations.
No mention of the billions of plot scenarios that didn't occur though.
Well, yeah, I mean, it's...
What's the one with the plane?
Survivorship bias, isn't it?
Yeah, that's survivorship bias.
Is that one?
Yep. Speaking of survivorship bias, the...
That was like cool.
Anyway, speaking of survivorship bias...
After the Aptos Prevented is starting to kick up again.
Yeah, we'll send it again.
1000 transactions a second.
Starting to pick up a little bit.
Well, we have to run two full rigs for this one.
There's a lot of locking.
What would you say the average spend rate is per validator for this test net?
And how many validators are there and how long does the test net go?
Test net is two weeks of testing plus probably...
We probably spent at least two weeks standing shit up, right?
Plus...
Yeah.
So probably...
Cool as six weeks total.
Yeah, I think I'll end up spending for two months of machine time.
Yeah.
Both a validator and a validator full node.
My guess average spend is probably for both of those a grand a month each.
I would say maybe a little bit less, 900 bucks a month each.
Some of the cloud-based vendors are probably spending five times that.
Maybe four or five grand a month each.
A ballpark number.
I mean, each validator.
So I costed a rough back of the packet estimate for AWS.
And my estimate for monthly spend per validator rig for the specs required for this one,
which is very high spec, would be about $20,000.
So you would have to spend...
So for bear in mind that you can bring it up...
Both or for one?
One.
So that's automating everything.
So the plus side of that is that you could literally stand it up the day before it was required.
There's no run-in.
Sure.
And you could spin it down at day 16, 17, 18, whatever.
Right?
Yeah.
So the reality is it wouldn't be the full $20,000, but it would also be probably $12,000 times
two, something like that, probably about $24,000 with the spend.
So I noticed that there are a number of validators running on AWS.
I don't know what their level of automation is, what the level of services they're paying
are, because you could also spin up EC2 instances, which are also very expensive, but not to
that extent expensive.
Right?
So there's a variety of levels in that rabbit hole.
And then to answer your question on the number of valves, I think in terms of the number
of Genesis valves or the ones that are partner validations, there are 40 of them.
There are 40 of those.
So there's 80 total nodes.
So 40 times, let's use an average of 2,500 to 4,000 each.
Right?
Maybe.
When you average the cloud vendors out plus bare metal, two validators each, maybe say
three grand each.
Just a few.
Infrastructure costs, labor costs.
I think 4,000.
Correct.
It's at least a quarter million.
I would think it's somewhere between $150,000 and $50,000.
Yes, for a six-week type of thing.
Plus, you also have community validators.
Community validators is another 30 that I think are running just one node, if I'm understanding
that correctly.
And so figure, I think your guess of $200,000 to $250,000 is probably in the ballpark all
in.
And that's probably just infrastructure.
If you add time in there, if you actually put in time, it would probably double.
Yeah, at least half.
Wow.
Probably more than double.
It's fucking good.
There's a ton of time involved.
But I mean, there's a lot of time set up and everything else.
But yeah, there's probably close to $400,000 or $500,000.
So that's a lot of money.
What is the spec?
What is the required spec for that?
Their goal is between 48 and 64, they call it cores, but really what they mean is threads.
Because in the version, you're really talking a thread as a core.
But probably what you're thinking is 48 to 60, they're called 48 to 64 threads.
I would say 128 to 36 gigs or more.
Plus, in the VFN side is probably another 32 core, 32 thread.
And then...
Even the VFN had to be pretty beefy, right?
Yeah, I'm using all 7950s.
And then it's like we have a 9730, a 9374F, and a 9474F, which is a 64 core box and a
96 core box or 96 thread box.
The new Epics.
So those are...
They're freaking pricey, man.
They're big boys.
So yeah, plus there's a lot of 9254s out there, which Volter runs.
The next two runs, which is the new...
At the bottom of the new Epic structure, and then you have a bunch of...
Try like 9700s or 7...
No, 7300s, what the one previous synthesis.
So it's a part of a mix.
So the Aleo, or Aleo, or however it's...
Aleo?
Aleo.
The Aleo...
Is that it?
Aleo?
I don't know.
It's something I think.
So the Aleo testnet is actually...
It's a pretty high spec testnet as well for the ZK stuff.
So I think they were recommending 64 threads.
Are they?
I mean, these new Epics, man, they are fucking badass.
They are so much fun to run.
Like, they are just nuts.
I can just imagine you're bringing up H top and it's just like fucking filling the screen
with threads.
96 across and then three quarters of a terabyte of RAM and then like, you know, like it's just
the amount of parallelization, the resistance, the sanity, right?
And plus each individual thread is like really fast.
I mean, it's not like a 7, like 50 fast, but like they're really fast on the thread side.
I was going to mention like that those high thread count CPUs to date have been like actually
pretty slow threads.
So like what type of...
It's still called, you mean?
Yeah.
Well, you know, all the threads are not taking in the turbo, but a lot of them around like,
you know, two, 2.2 gigahertz where, you know, that doesn't necessarily work very well for
some applications.
Correct.
No matter how many threads you got, if your parallelization is not fantastic in your application,
correct, then it can be a huge bottleneck.
So like these new epics, what kind of...
My 93.74F is a 32 core 64 thread that runs at 3.85 gigahertz that boosts to 4.5.
That is impressive.
Yeah, that's nice.
Well, what do you guys think about funk?
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