1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,160 But it's only 20 more than what we have, right? 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:04,580 104 active or something like that? 3 00:00:04,580 --> 00:00:05,220 110 active? 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,500 Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent 5 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:14,580 validated teams. 6 00:00:18,420 --> 00:00:21,640 Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:22,860 validated teams. 8 00:00:23,300 --> 00:00:29,820 And we're discussing expansion of validator sets again, or at 9 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:33,100 least is it expansion of validator sets or is it expansion of 10 00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:34,080 business opportunities? 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:34,580 I don't know. 12 00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:36,740 But there's quite a few launches. 13 00:00:37,140 --> 00:00:39,740 Can we talk about, can we talk about launchers tomorrow? 14 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:41,620 Are we going to be here tomorrow? 15 00:00:44,580 --> 00:00:46,620 That was a poorly phrased question. 16 00:00:47,580 --> 00:00:49,320 We talked about launches that are occurring tomorrow. 17 00:00:49,340 --> 00:00:49,980 Is that what you're talking about? 18 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:50,300 Yeah. 19 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:50,700 Yeah. 20 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:50,900 No. 21 00:00:52,020 --> 00:00:55,020 I thought that was implicit in the word. 22 00:00:55,020 --> 00:00:56,460 We only had this show once a week. 23 00:00:56,860 --> 00:00:59,260 Well, the wording was ambiguous, but I thought the meaning 24 00:00:59,260 --> 00:01:00,220 was clear. 25 00:01:00,220 --> 00:01:02,980 It could only really be one of the lists. 26 00:01:02,980 --> 00:01:06,340 So you didn't want to instantly, I don't worry about drinking. 27 00:01:06,340 --> 00:01:08,060 It just leave the potty. 28 00:01:08,420 --> 00:01:09,340 Semantics matter. 29 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:09,700 Okay. 30 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:12,380 This is a podcast that is, is, is, all right. 31 00:01:12,380 --> 00:01:14,860 It's dreamily accurate in all aspects. 32 00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:18,140 So wait, before we get onto that point, I do want to, so she'll 33 00:01:18,140 --> 00:01:18,900 see this correct. 34 00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:21,420 And you're, we were talking about the Aptos stress net that's 35 00:01:21,420 --> 00:01:23,260 coming up starting Monday. 36 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:26,660 And we, we're all running multiple nodes for that. 37 00:01:26,660 --> 00:01:28,540 And I thought that they were going to, I thought that might 38 00:01:28,540 --> 00:01:31,500 be because they're expanding the set, which would allow someone 39 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:33,060 on this call to be able to get into that set. 40 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:38,220 But now I'm realizing, but, but now I'm realizing that, that, 41 00:01:38,260 --> 00:01:41,020 that he's correct that we're running that because there's 113 42 00:01:41,020 --> 00:01:44,180 validators in the set today, but some of those are much smaller 43 00:01:44,180 --> 00:01:45,180 in terms of stake. 44 00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:48,620 And so it's the larger stake Genesis valves that are performing 45 00:01:48,620 --> 00:01:50,900 two nodes apiece to be able to make up that total number, which is 46 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:53,820 about a 10 more than what's currently in Genesis, which means 47 00:01:53,820 --> 00:01:57,500 the door that I thought was open for our fourth colleague is 48 00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:59,980 actually much smaller. 49 00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:01,660 Maybe it's just a sliver of a crack. 50 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:04,140 I thought it was why I don't, I really did. 51 00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:06,380 I, I totally misread what was going on here. 52 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:11,780 So after a year, I am, I am pretty used to being ignored by the 53 00:02:11,780 --> 00:02:12,980 Aptos Foundation. 54 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:14,020 You're beat down. 55 00:02:16,260 --> 00:02:19,940 I mean, I think that's the life of an Aptos validator to some extent. 56 00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:22,500 I mean, honestly, it's a life, it's a life of any validator. 57 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:23,780 It's a life of any validator. 58 00:02:23,780 --> 00:02:27,980 Yeah, when you're not being ignored, when you got problems really, I've 59 00:02:27,980 --> 00:02:31,700 noticed that when I'm being ignored, I have a quite easy life. 60 00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:37,820 And when we're not being ignored, it's usually because there's 61 00:02:37,820 --> 00:02:39,580 something new about to happen. 62 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:44,860 And because we're relatively on the ball with things, we've, you 63 00:02:44,860 --> 00:02:47,700 know, just, just need a bit of help testing something that's 64 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:51,380 going to involve a hairy operation in production. 65 00:02:51,380 --> 00:02:53,380 And you're like, listen, I mean, 66 00:02:53,380 --> 00:02:57,340 that the, this, in this job, you can't fall in love. 67 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:02,140 So you can't fall in love with like a chain or the idea of a chain or 68 00:03:02,140 --> 00:03:08,180 being in a specific set because we are colleagues or you can't fall in 69 00:03:08,180 --> 00:03:11,660 love because it's all fleeting, right? 70 00:03:11,660 --> 00:03:12,980 Like you could get pushed out of that set. 71 00:03:12,980 --> 00:03:15,020 Like we've been pushed out of osmosis like three times, right? 72 00:03:15,020 --> 00:03:16,540 Like I really want to be in that set. 73 00:03:16,540 --> 00:03:19,140 Do I have the capability of holding onto that and wanting to do that and 74 00:03:19,140 --> 00:03:22,900 blah, blah, blah and investing that not necessarily, but you can't fall in 75 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:23,620 love with that, right? 76 00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:26,220 You just have to move on to the next one and see who takes you to the 77 00:03:26,220 --> 00:03:26,580 dance. 78 00:03:26,580 --> 00:03:29,740 And even if you're in the dance, hell, like you still might have the 79 00:03:29,740 --> 00:03:32,700 opp, you still might get, uh, I don't know. 80 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:35,660 So it's kind of like, you go home with somebody else. 81 00:03:38,140 --> 00:03:42,180 Nation of what artifacts says when he says, oh, you got to kiss a thousand 82 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:43,540 frogs, you do. 83 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:45,660 I was going to bring up artifacts as well. 84 00:03:46,780 --> 00:03:52,060 And I would say combining it with the wisdom of punk, uh, mastermind, 85 00:03:52,060 --> 00:03:55,940 genius man, Jeff Rosenstock, nothing's forever, dude. 86 00:03:56,340 --> 00:03:57,220 Nothing is forever. 87 00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:58,380 Nothing's forever, dude. 88 00:03:58,380 --> 00:04:01,340 It's what's spray painted on the back of a guitar that is within my 89 00:04:01,580 --> 00:04:02,140 eye line. 90 00:04:02,780 --> 00:04:06,820 And it may be pithy, but it is one of those quotes where you're just like, 91 00:04:07,020 --> 00:04:08,780 as the chorus to a song, you're just like, 92 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:15,620 devastatingly accurate and infinitely quotable because it's just true. 93 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:17,820 Anyway, thanks, Jeff, for that one. 94 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:18,460 Brutal. 95 00:04:19,060 --> 00:04:21,620 That, that's like one of my, my favorite things that artifact taught 96 00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:25,300 me when we were out in East Denver, he was like, all right, when you get a good 97 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:28,740 business contract, here's the most important thing I can teach you. 98 00:04:29,220 --> 00:04:30,540 Sit down and shut up. 99 00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:34,020 Don't even let them know that you exist because once you exist, they 100 00:04:34,020 --> 00:04:35,460 realize they have to pay you still. 101 00:04:35,620 --> 00:04:40,060 So just sit down, shut up, make sure they don't ever have to contact you and 102 00:04:40,060 --> 00:04:41,140 try not to contact them. 103 00:04:41,620 --> 00:04:43,300 She'll see this like, wow. 104 00:04:43,380 --> 00:04:44,860 Wait, wait, wait, but that's funny. 105 00:04:44,860 --> 00:04:45,740 Hold up, hold up. 106 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:47,100 That means no, you're paying. 107 00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:50,940 That is like, that's the antithesis to everything we teach on the game of 108 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:52,260 Windows, get rich seminar. 109 00:04:52,460 --> 00:04:53,100 That is true. 110 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:55,820 But once you've already up to the top, then where do you go? 111 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:57,460 Once you've got to the top, you're like, all right, I'm done. 112 00:04:57,460 --> 00:04:57,860 I'm here. 113 00:04:57,900 --> 00:05:01,220 I'm just going to play the problem from the jungle book. 114 00:05:02,260 --> 00:05:04,460 You've you're up to the top and you've had to stop. 115 00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:06,420 And that's what's bothering you, man. 116 00:05:07,860 --> 00:05:10,860 She'll say, did, did John tell you that specific story? 117 00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:13,500 Yes, it's related to a specific network too. 118 00:05:13,540 --> 00:05:14,180 Yeah, but. 119 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:17,020 Oh, as soon as you open your mouth and like, oh yeah, we're paying you. 120 00:05:17,460 --> 00:05:18,900 I heard that story as well. 121 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:19,500 I know exactly. 122 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:22,860 I think we were together actually when we might have heard that story. 123 00:05:22,980 --> 00:05:26,020 Yeah, this story, so I'll have to ask. 124 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:26,740 Yeah, I see. 125 00:05:26,740 --> 00:05:29,060 Yeah, well, you didn't come to the thing, but motherfucker. 126 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:30,220 Right. 127 00:05:30,740 --> 00:05:34,220 You didn't come to fucking smart, calm Barcelona, motherfucker. 128 00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:36,060 So what do I, what do I got a private plane? 129 00:05:36,060 --> 00:05:37,340 I can just fly around everywhere. 130 00:05:38,140 --> 00:05:39,780 Why being next May? 131 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:42,220 Yeah, booked in next May. 132 00:05:42,220 --> 00:05:45,220 I got a book flights in a con, but I'll be sleeping on someone's couch 133 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:47,180 because I'll be poor by the time I get there, paying for the. 134 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:49,220 Full consensus, consensus. 135 00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:50,020 Yeah, consensus. 136 00:05:50,020 --> 00:05:50,380 Yeah. 137 00:05:50,380 --> 00:05:51,860 Oh, I have my ticket for that. 138 00:05:51,860 --> 00:05:52,380 I've got. 139 00:05:52,380 --> 00:05:53,180 Oh, did they come through? 140 00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:53,580 Oh, good. 141 00:05:53,580 --> 00:05:54,700 They came through today. 142 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:55,540 Oh, sweet. 143 00:05:55,860 --> 00:05:56,060 All right. 144 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:57,060 Yeah, I'm going to. 145 00:05:57,060 --> 00:05:57,180 I'm going to. 146 00:05:57,180 --> 00:05:57,460 I'm going to. 147 00:05:57,460 --> 00:06:00,180 But I don't know if I will actually be able to come. 148 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:01,180 Oh, my God. 149 00:06:01,180 --> 00:06:01,820 It's fucking. 150 00:06:01,820 --> 00:06:03,020 I got a dev ticket. 151 00:06:03,020 --> 00:06:05,180 I got a dev ticket, so I was just like. 152 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:05,980 Figure it out. 153 00:06:05,980 --> 00:06:06,980 He's got important. 154 00:06:06,980 --> 00:06:08,580 He's got important shit going on though. 155 00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:09,580 Yeah. 156 00:06:09,580 --> 00:06:13,580 I mean, if I get my Viva out the way, I don't know. 157 00:06:13,580 --> 00:06:15,180 It's also time away from family, isn't it? 158 00:06:15,580 --> 00:06:16,380 It's fucking ball. 159 00:06:16,380 --> 00:06:17,380 Like to go. 160 00:06:17,380 --> 00:06:21,180 I can't wait to get away from my unborn child to go to Texas. 161 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:21,580 No less. 162 00:06:21,580 --> 00:06:22,180 That's like. 163 00:06:22,540 --> 00:06:23,580 It's in Texas. 164 00:06:23,980 --> 00:06:24,580 It's in Texas. 165 00:06:24,580 --> 00:06:26,780 Maybe I thought it was in Denver. 166 00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:27,180 At least. 167 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:27,780 No, it's not. 168 00:06:27,780 --> 00:06:28,180 I'm not. 169 00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:28,780 I'm not. 170 00:06:28,780 --> 00:06:29,580 I'm not. 171 00:06:29,580 --> 00:06:34,380 I don't know that good low altitude open carry state, baby. 172 00:06:34,380 --> 00:06:36,380 Open carry barbecue. 173 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:37,380 This is getting less exciting. 174 00:06:37,380 --> 00:06:38,580 No abortions. 175 00:06:40,580 --> 00:06:42,580 You've got to keep Arizona's. 176 00:06:42,580 --> 00:06:43,580 Arizona's all right. 177 00:06:43,580 --> 00:06:44,580 It's been to Arizona. 178 00:06:44,580 --> 00:06:45,180 I like that. 179 00:06:45,180 --> 00:06:47,980 That fucking hot though, like hot. 180 00:06:47,980 --> 00:06:48,580 I haven't noticed. 181 00:06:48,980 --> 00:06:55,180 Oh, like it was like Morocco hot, you know, when you're like, why is anybody out during the daytime? 182 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:58,980 Because that's the thing that's like Phoenix, Arizona, right? 183 00:06:59,380 --> 00:07:01,580 So that you can work normal hours. 184 00:07:01,580 --> 00:07:04,180 They just missed water everywhere. 185 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:14,980 So you just always walking around in a mist of water and you're like, the solution to this has been worked out in every other hot country, which is you just don't fucking go to work till five 186 00:07:14,980 --> 00:07:17,380 p.m. and you work till like 11 p.m. 187 00:07:17,780 --> 00:07:20,980 And then you sleep and you sleep through the hot bit of the day. 188 00:07:21,180 --> 00:07:26,580 Like go around Morocco in the summer, like go anywhere at lunchtime. 189 00:07:26,780 --> 00:07:29,380 You'll see no come because people are smarter than that. 190 00:07:29,780 --> 00:07:30,980 But here's the thing, though. 191 00:07:30,980 --> 00:07:32,980 Americans think that they're better than nature. 192 00:07:33,180 --> 00:07:38,980 That's why you read about hikers that died because they were like in flip flops and no water all the time. 193 00:07:38,980 --> 00:07:40,580 You read out all the time. 194 00:07:40,580 --> 00:07:40,980 Yeah. 195 00:07:41,980 --> 00:07:43,980 Isn't that always a guy in Florida, though? 196 00:07:43,980 --> 00:07:45,180 I read this story. 197 00:07:45,380 --> 00:07:54,180 Oh, God, no, no, no happens in Oregon like three or four times a year where they're like, yeah, we sent the National Guard and National Guard's all pissy about it. 198 00:07:54,180 --> 00:07:59,780 Because they're like this this guy, he came out here and flip flops and no water or a backpack. 199 00:07:59,780 --> 00:08:00,780 His phone's dead. 200 00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:02,180 Why did he do this? 201 00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:03,580 His phone's dead. 202 00:08:03,980 --> 00:08:06,780 And while he is when camping without a tent. 203 00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:09,780 Yeah. 204 00:08:11,180 --> 00:08:20,380 To be fair, though, like I think the only reason that doesn't happen in the UK is because nowhere is really further than about an hour away from anywhere else. 205 00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:21,380 Like, right, right. 206 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:27,380 We like like the greatest wilderness we have is like you could get there in a helicopter in 45. 207 00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:28,180 Right. 208 00:08:28,180 --> 00:08:33,380 Like little you could you could just point in any direction and walk and you hit a pub like within two hours, right? 209 00:08:33,580 --> 00:08:34,380 Like, yeah. 210 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:35,380 Yeah. 211 00:08:35,980 --> 00:08:36,980 I died out there. 212 00:08:37,580 --> 00:08:38,580 I'm not even kidding. 213 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:43,580 Like you can be in the middle of nowhere and you're you'd be like, fuck, I'm actually a bit lost. 214 00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:45,580 Yeah, this is pre-mode off lines or whatever. 215 00:08:45,580 --> 00:08:49,180 And you can actually walk up a hill and then just be like, oh, yeah. 216 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:57,180 Because every valley has a village like there's there's this thing you do called Duke of Edinburgh where you it's basically like hiking and outdoors stuff. 217 00:08:57,180 --> 00:09:05,380 The long and short of it is at some point when you're about 16, they just dump you in the peak district for like three or four days. 218 00:09:05,380 --> 00:09:11,380 And every night you have to be in a certain place and you have to carry all your food with you in your tent and blah, blah, blah. 219 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:13,780 But but during the day, whatever. 220 00:09:13,780 --> 00:09:15,380 And that's literally what happens. 221 00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:18,180 You just walk up a hill and you're like, there's a town there. 222 00:09:18,180 --> 00:09:18,980 Should we go to the pub? 223 00:09:18,980 --> 00:09:19,180 Yeah. 224 00:09:19,180 --> 00:09:19,580 Right. 225 00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:19,780 Yeah. 226 00:09:19,780 --> 00:09:22,980 I can see how many hours we got before the checkpoint. 227 00:09:22,980 --> 00:09:25,180 Like, we're going to get served. 228 00:09:25,180 --> 00:09:25,580 Yeah. 229 00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:26,980 It's the middle of the peak district. 230 00:09:26,980 --> 00:09:28,380 I think we'll get served. 231 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:33,380 The only thing is you're not supposed to they because they because they obviously they think about this. 232 00:09:33,380 --> 00:09:35,380 You're not supposed to carry any cash on you. 233 00:09:35,380 --> 00:09:39,580 You specifically get given I think it's like granted this was when I was a kid, right? 234 00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:46,380 So a long time ago, you're allowed to take a couple of quid for the phone like for a phone box as like emergency money. 235 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:53,980 But you weren't allowed to take, you know, enough money to buy a meal because then they were like, obviously you'll find a town and then you just buy some food. 236 00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:57,380 You know, you'll find a lot of food on you. 237 00:09:57,380 --> 00:09:59,380 You know, you'll find a lot of food on you. 238 00:09:59,380 --> 00:10:00,980 You'll find a lot of food on you. 239 00:10:00,980 --> 00:10:02,980 You'll find a lot of food on you. 240 00:10:02,980 --> 00:10:04,980 You'll find a lot of food on you. 241 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:08,180 So you just like put put 20 quid in your sock. 242 00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:09,980 They don't give a shit. 243 00:10:09,980 --> 00:10:11,980 They're just like, where you got your pockets? 244 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:13,380 You're like, nothing. 245 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:14,980 And I like checks out off you go. 246 00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:17,980 They'd like just go up a hill and be like, there's the nearest village. 247 00:10:17,980 --> 00:10:21,980 Well, the Rose and Crown looks like it looks like a goer. 248 00:10:21,980 --> 00:10:22,980 I thought he's tied a fucking iPhone to his. 249 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:23,980 I thought he was tying a fucking iPhone to his fucking bokeh. 250 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:24,980 And then like, I was just like, he's the fucking bokeh. 251 00:10:24,980 --> 00:10:26,980 And then like, I didn't even know what to do with my iPhone. 252 00:10:26,980 --> 00:10:28,980 I wanted to take an extra iPhone like, like, literally sticky taped an iPhone to my way to my screen here. 253 00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:30,980 I tried to do the same with an Android phone. 254 00:10:30,980 --> 00:10:34,980 And it doesn't like it technically can work, but it's a huge hassle. 255 00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:39,980 You got to download apps on both sides and jump through hoops and sacrifice a lamb. 256 00:10:39,980 --> 00:10:41,980 It's pretty bad. 257 00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:47,980 So the only way I can get better image than that is to actually have my DSLR up there, but there's a lag 258 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:49,980 and it's annoying. 259 00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:52,380 Yeah, I was just shopping like what other options are there? 260 00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:54,900 Cause I don't even have an old iPhone sent around. 261 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:58,180 So, and they're all DSLRs, but you get that whole bunch of issues with that, right? 262 00:10:58,580 --> 00:11:02,260 The other problem I've noticed is a lot of these devices that aimed at gamers. 263 00:11:02,260 --> 00:11:05,140 And so they're just like all the drivers of windows and actually don't work 264 00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:06,420 super well on my Mac. 265 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:06,900 Yeah. 266 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:14,020 So like this camera on the windows partition of my Linux box is actually much better 267 00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:14,660 quality. 268 00:11:14,660 --> 00:11:15,980 Like it works way better. 269 00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:17,700 It's like, I think it's a 4k camera. 270 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:20,740 Um, and on the Mac it's like, I'll try my best. 271 00:11:21,740 --> 00:11:27,780 Did you ever do a call with Jake when he had like Linux installed on like an IBM or something? 272 00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:30,020 Oh yeah, on ThinkPad. 273 00:11:30,020 --> 00:11:31,820 Yeah, it was like a top of the line ThinkPad as well. 274 00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:37,580 It's all, it was like, it looks like he's like, you know, um, what's the matrix when 275 00:11:37,580 --> 00:11:41,940 they're like outside of the matrix and contacting people and like screens always like fudgy. 276 00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:44,180 There's a game of nodes episode with him like that. 277 00:11:44,180 --> 00:11:46,820 It's like, there's like blue lines cutting across sideways and everything. 278 00:11:46,820 --> 00:11:47,820 Yeah. 279 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:50,180 That's very par for the course really. 280 00:11:50,180 --> 00:11:52,340 Um, yeah. 281 00:11:55,340 --> 00:12:04,420 Um, my, uh, one of the academics that I've been working with, uh, is like where you go 282 00:12:04,420 --> 00:12:05,260 during the week. 283 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:07,380 Yeah. 284 00:12:08,140 --> 00:12:08,340 Yeah. 285 00:12:08,340 --> 00:12:08,660 Is it? 286 00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:11,820 When you talk about school, same thing. 287 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,420 When you get, when you talk about school, you have to put breaks in so we can get our, 288 00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:16,060 we can have time to put our jabs in there. 289 00:12:16,060 --> 00:12:16,620 Yeah. 290 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:19,340 You have to put that fucking square hat on when you start looking. 291 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:22,740 The little bingley bit. 292 00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:26,940 What are you going to do when you're actually Dr. 293 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,260 Frey, because then it's like, we've already been calling you Dr. 294 00:12:29,260 --> 00:12:29,700 Frey. 295 00:12:30,020 --> 00:12:31,580 It's going to be worn out by that point. 296 00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:32,820 Are you going to be Mr. 297 00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:33,500 Dr. Frey? 298 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:34,300 I don't know. 299 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:38,820 I imagine I'll probably just go like, I have a doctor at fuck off. 300 00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:39,700 Yeah. 301 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,860 You'll be, you'll be too distinguished for this fucking show. 302 00:12:42,860 --> 00:12:43,420 Let me tell you that. 303 00:12:43,420 --> 00:12:44,260 Yeah. 304 00:12:45,380 --> 00:12:46,500 I am the doctor now. 305 00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:48,340 Yeah, exactly. 306 00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:49,060 Look at me. 307 00:12:49,740 --> 00:12:50,180 Look at me. 308 00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:52,100 I'm the doctor now. 309 00:12:52,340 --> 00:12:52,660 Yeah. 310 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:53,380 I don't know. 311 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:55,340 I don't know. 312 00:12:57,620 --> 00:13:00,340 Ben Davis says, in fact, that no, no idea what the hat is called is excellent. 313 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:02,020 What's that square one with the dangly bit? 314 00:13:02,740 --> 00:13:04,380 Look, I'm a graduate motherfucker. 315 00:13:04,580 --> 00:13:08,540 I mean, it's a bit rich of, it's a bit rich of an old to be going on about school 316 00:13:08,540 --> 00:13:10,260 when he could barely find the word in the dictionary. 317 00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:10,860 But anyway. 318 00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:11,700 Yeah. 319 00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:13,460 Hey, man. 320 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:14,740 Fuck you. 321 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:17,660 We don't have dictionaries here. 322 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:19,140 I don't get on with books. 323 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:24,540 Yeah, I've got a fucking big stack of books over there that I've never read. 324 00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:30,740 Do you know, like the answer is always just in a book. 325 00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:32,820 It's a question of whether you read the right one. 326 00:13:34,860 --> 00:13:36,940 Yeah, that's kind of shut the fuck up. 327 00:13:37,740 --> 00:13:38,660 Shut the fuck up. 328 00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:43,300 Yeah, this, this is out is 9% and it goes down very smooth. 329 00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:45,140 What is it? 330 00:13:45,140 --> 00:13:46,180 Guinness that I'm not sure. 331 00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:48,260 Oh, Guinness is about 5.2. 332 00:13:48,260 --> 00:13:48,740 I think. 333 00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:49,140 Yes. 334 00:13:49,140 --> 00:13:49,980 I think it's quite low. 335 00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:51,980 It's actually really low calorie as well. 336 00:13:51,980 --> 00:13:55,340 Relatively speaking, 125 calories for a big old can like this. 337 00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:57,620 That's like half of what a cider would be. 338 00:13:58,140 --> 00:14:00,500 Well, he gives us a shot of sugar. 339 00:14:01,940 --> 00:14:02,540 Wow. 340 00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:03,980 You guys are kind of harsh there. 341 00:14:05,980 --> 00:14:06,980 I got a drink. 342 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:07,380 Sorry. 343 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:10,260 It gives me the indigestion because I'm old. 344 00:14:10,260 --> 00:14:12,300 So yeah, it's quite acidic cider. 345 00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:13,700 Yeah, it is. 346 00:14:14,580 --> 00:14:19,460 The Frey, are you are you taking your beer piss warm in tradition or? 347 00:14:19,860 --> 00:14:21,620 Oh, no, it's not bitter. 348 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:23,460 You only have bitter at room temperature. 349 00:14:23,460 --> 00:14:24,620 Oh, OK. 350 00:14:24,620 --> 00:14:26,620 Sorry, I didn't know. 351 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:27,700 Come on. 352 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,020 I thought you all just did all your. 353 00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:29,380 Fuck it. 354 00:14:29,380 --> 00:14:30,020 Idiot. 355 00:14:30,860 --> 00:14:34,380 No, like Cass, there's this difference between. 356 00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:36,540 I think what's it called? 357 00:14:36,540 --> 00:14:39,180 Keck, Keck temperature and cask temperature and stuff. 358 00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:43,260 Like there's like room and then there's a fucking. 359 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:44,740 Yeah, do you know Ben Davison's in the chat? 360 00:14:44,740 --> 00:14:47,100 He'll remember the the correct word and the thing. 361 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:50,180 There's like room temperature and then there's like cellar temperature 362 00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:52,900 for for kegs and casks like it shouldn't ever be. 363 00:14:53,380 --> 00:14:57,660 It's the warm beer thing is is like not a thing. 364 00:14:57,980 --> 00:14:59,820 Like they're always below room temperature. 365 00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:01,700 It's just that they're not cold. 366 00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:04,740 I'm a firm believer in all drinks are better colder. 367 00:15:05,020 --> 00:15:05,860 Like red wine. 368 00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:06,420 Don't care. 369 00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:07,980 I want to cold really. 370 00:15:07,980 --> 00:15:08,540 55. 371 00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:09,100 Oh, yeah. 372 00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:09,860 55 degrees. 373 00:15:09,860 --> 00:15:13,100 Oh, we can drink red wine together. 374 00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:13,660 Wait, how? 375 00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:14,420 Like you need to. 376 00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:14,860 Fuck. 377 00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:16,260 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 378 00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:18,140 I don't know what I do it up into Oregon, but. 379 00:15:18,140 --> 00:15:20,940 Like ref, like refrigerated cold. 380 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:23,540 Refridgerated cold or like red wine cold. 381 00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:25,060 Yeah, refrigerator cold. 382 00:15:25,060 --> 00:15:27,660 Like 30 like 37 degree cold like that. 383 00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:28,020 Yes. 384 00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:28,740 Yes. 385 00:15:28,740 --> 00:15:29,380 Yes. 386 00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:30,500 That's wrong. 387 00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:31,860 That's right. 388 00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:32,620 That's right. 389 00:15:32,620 --> 00:15:33,540 That's right. 390 00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:34,260 The word. 391 00:15:35,060 --> 00:15:35,780 I do put on. 392 00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:37,180 I am not happy. 393 00:15:37,180 --> 00:15:38,300 They're not happy. 394 00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:39,380 She'll see. 395 00:15:39,380 --> 00:15:41,820 They have very angry. 396 00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:42,980 Vintners. 397 00:15:42,980 --> 00:15:44,300 Look, I'm not going to lie. 398 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:49,340 I know people who get their box of wine into their plastic cup 399 00:15:49,340 --> 00:15:51,020 and throw some ice cubes in there. 400 00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:53,700 And I almost like throw up at the whole situation. 401 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:55,700 For a box of. 402 00:15:58,420 --> 00:15:59,300 Do you have a box of? 403 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:00,620 Over there. 404 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:02,100 It's got a great name, hasn't it? 405 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:04,140 Is it it's like a goon? 406 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:06,820 No, there's all kinds of names. 407 00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:09,660 What was it begins with a G, doesn't it? 408 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:13,020 Like the kinds of people who are buying that call it like lady in a boat 409 00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:16,340 because it's got a picture of a lady in a boat on it. 410 00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:19,460 I thought there was like a one word like lady in a boat. 411 00:16:20,020 --> 00:16:23,100 Like like Aussieism for the bag of wine. 412 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:23,820 Oh, yeah. 413 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:25,780 Goonsack. Goonsack. 414 00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:28,900 You are so close to the fact that he didn't just take that. 415 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:30,940 Your gas ridiculous. 416 00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:33,740 He said a goona. 417 00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:36,660 I think goon which probably is because I think of Bundy. 418 00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:38,580 Yeah, but it's like cheese. 419 00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:41,220 Well, it is a cheese. 420 00:16:41,220 --> 00:16:42,940 Gooders, gooders of touch cheese. 421 00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:45,580 Yeah. Yeah. No, they call it a goon bag. 422 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:47,660 Quite popular. 423 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:51,340 Yeah. And in the young crowd at the parties with you, 424 00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:56,060 your goonsack of like just cheap white wine. 425 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:57,420 Yeah. 426 00:16:57,420 --> 00:17:00,300 Thing is, though, there's enough deep, like really pretty decent 427 00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:03,660 Australian wine that you can probably buy bullshit cheap wine 428 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:07,300 in Australia that's actually like reasonably good. 429 00:17:08,260 --> 00:17:08,980 Yeah. Yeah. 430 00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:12,020 I mean, like, I don't know, you can get like 20 bucks one 431 00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:14,220 that's half decent here, I guess. 432 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:17,740 But, you know, for for something that's actually tastes good 433 00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:23,300 and has a good like finish and texture, it's like maybe 50 to 80 bucks. 434 00:17:23,820 --> 00:17:25,300 Australian, I suppose. 435 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:28,580 So it's not like France where it's like three euros and you're like fucking hell. 436 00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:30,140 Yeah. 437 00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:31,540 What is that? 438 00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:33,420 Is that like a good fucking hill or a bad fucking? 439 00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:34,140 Yeah, good. 440 00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:35,740 I could. OK. No, yeah, it's expensive. 441 00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:37,900 Yeah. I mean, they're good as early wines, 442 00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:40,140 but so are we buying those cheaper than you are? 443 00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:41,420 Maybe. 444 00:17:41,420 --> 00:17:44,700 Well, the the labor in Australia is fucking expensive. 445 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:47,860 I don't know if you get like a good bulk rate to get it out. 446 00:17:47,860 --> 00:17:49,660 I don't know if they got like some sort of trade deal. 447 00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:52,460 We have like all kinds of alcohol tax. 448 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:53,540 So you probably get it. 449 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:55,060 We do without the tax. 450 00:17:55,060 --> 00:17:58,820 Yeah. But to be honest, like when I was in the states last, 451 00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:02,180 I went and looked at the liquor stores and I'm buying, 452 00:18:03,220 --> 00:18:06,180 you know, like good whiskeys for cheaper here than what you are. 453 00:18:06,580 --> 00:18:07,740 Well, I fair my. 454 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:09,660 Liquor is pretty expensive here. 455 00:18:09,660 --> 00:18:11,660 Actually, we talk about dependent as well. 456 00:18:11,660 --> 00:18:14,460 It is it is extremely state dependent because because the overlying tax, 457 00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:17,060 similar to gasoline, things like that. 458 00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:19,300 I just want to say from the chat, 459 00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:23,300 Ben Davis says the poshest person I know has their red wine cold. 460 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,020 However, from memory. 461 00:18:26,020 --> 00:18:30,180 OK, I'm not going to dox the area of the country that Ben, I believe, 462 00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:33,540 lives in, but I will just say that the poshest person that lives there 463 00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:34,820 probably isn't very posh. 464 00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:36,540 Shots. 465 00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:40,780 Jeez. 466 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:46,180 I would ideally then made a joke in the accent and then I realized 467 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:47,300 that is also doxing. 468 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,980 So out of respect, I'm just going to mute my mic, have a little juggle to 469 00:18:50,980 --> 00:18:57,140 myself and then yeah, we have done alcohol tax chat before, though. 470 00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:01,340 So unless you want me to get the banner, the totally tax time banner out. 471 00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,500 I'm trying to remember what what I can do. 472 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,540 Oh, Jacobs Creek and what? 473 00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:07,540 No, not Jacobs Creek. 474 00:19:07,540 --> 00:19:09,020 That's like a cheap. 475 00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:09,620 Penfolds. 476 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:10,220 Penfolds. 477 00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:11,540 I have some Penfolds here. 478 00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:12,940 That's a that's a damn good wine. 479 00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:14,500 Well, Jacobs Creek is the cheap one. 480 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:15,020 Yeah. 481 00:19:15,020 --> 00:19:15,540 Yeah. 482 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:17,940 And I think the other two hands is that another one? 483 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:19,180 I think that's Australian. 484 00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:20,180 It was real good. 485 00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:22,580 But those are probably those are hands. 486 00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:24,100 Those are probably 80 bucks here. 487 00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:26,500 Did you just sneak a reference into something there? 488 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:27,060 No. 489 00:19:27,060 --> 00:19:28,060 No. 490 00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:29,060 I did not. 491 00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:30,060 Okay. 492 00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:35,900 So back to the question that kicked off this entire meander. 493 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:38,700 Can we talk about the chain launch that is tomorrow? 494 00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:39,700 Oh, that is one. 495 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:40,700 Let's talk about it. 496 00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:42,220 Do I DX? 497 00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:44,260 Yeah, it will see other one. 498 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:45,260 Celestia. 499 00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:47,260 Do I DX and Celestia? 500 00:19:47,260 --> 00:19:49,060 Well, Celestia is watching tomorrow. 501 00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:50,460 I don't think it's tomorrow. 502 00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:52,460 Celestia is soon, isn't it? 503 00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:54,620 Well, I mean, what is Celestia? 504 00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:56,340 Well, the airdrops already happens. 505 00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:57,460 I guess the chain must be running. 506 00:19:57,460 --> 00:19:57,780 Hang on. 507 00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:58,860 Wait, what the fuck? 508 00:19:58,860 --> 00:20:03,300 No, so the airdrop, the way that worked was you had to register it on test net 509 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:05,460 that you wanted it for main net. 510 00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:06,460 Kind of weird. 511 00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:08,820 OK, what the fuck? 512 00:20:08,820 --> 00:20:10,660 So they would have had a contract and then snap, 513 00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:13,300 showed the contract and then put that in the Genesis. 514 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:17,140 Yeah, I mean, well, except the state. 515 00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:19,700 Well, yeah, the state will work, but only if you do some fucking. 516 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:21,340 OK, fine, whatever. 517 00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:23,700 But I thought Celestia wasn't Cosmos I'm enabled. 518 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:24,700 So how? 519 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:29,980 No, I guess they could have a custom module, couldn't they? 520 00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:31,060 That would make more sense. 521 00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:33,060 They have custom module, they snapshot the state of it, 522 00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:35,740 and they throw in the Genesis. 523 00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:37,540 And then when the chain initializes, 524 00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:40,380 you can have five fucking tokens worth nothing. 525 00:20:40,820 --> 00:20:42,860 You know, I think you're overthinking it. 526 00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:46,940 The snapshot thing could have just been like them accepting a transaction 527 00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:49,460 and then exporting it to a CSV that they manually upload 528 00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:51,540 via ScriptLator into the Genesis. 529 00:20:51,540 --> 00:20:52,540 Like. 530 00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:55,180 I mean, you could also do that. 531 00:20:55,180 --> 00:20:58,540 Yeah, actually, I think I have a rough script that does that. 532 00:20:58,740 --> 00:21:00,820 Yeah, I mean, if I were to do it, that's basically what I would do. 533 00:21:00,820 --> 00:21:04,420 It'd be so much easier than like relying on actual Cosmos SDK stuff. 534 00:21:04,420 --> 00:21:07,740 I'd be like, OK, they hit yes, pop into the CSV. 535 00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:08,780 Let's go. 536 00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:14,460 I've seen quite a few no JS Jason Wrangling scripts. 537 00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:16,660 Is that one of the few times when you're like, oh, yeah, 538 00:21:16,660 --> 00:21:19,900 parsing a massive JSON file is not ideal. 539 00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:22,540 Back to CSV is the fucking best. 540 00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:23,860 CSV is great. 541 00:21:23,860 --> 00:21:27,580 Line by line format that you can lazily read. 542 00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:29,540 You never run out of memory. 543 00:21:29,540 --> 00:21:32,300 You can parse an infinite CSV, folks. 544 00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:34,020 Do yourself a favor. 545 00:21:34,020 --> 00:21:35,580 Just use CSV. 546 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:36,780 It's a text file. 547 00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:38,140 It's widely understood. 548 00:21:38,140 --> 00:21:40,140 You can serve it over a web browser. 549 00:21:40,620 --> 00:21:42,740 Every browser understands it. 550 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:45,620 Every web server understands it because of the HTTP. 551 00:21:45,620 --> 00:21:49,020 The headers, it's just supported everywhere by everything. 552 00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:51,940 What happens if you need to use a comma in your data? 553 00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:53,940 You have to escape it. 554 00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:56,140 Mm hmm. That sounds annoying. 555 00:21:56,140 --> 00:21:59,340 I mean, anything that would be exporting it, but just do it automatically. 556 00:21:59,340 --> 00:22:01,300 So exactly. 557 00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:03,660 You should just write better software if you have a problem with that. 558 00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:10,100 It's yeah. 559 00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:13,140 So yeah. 560 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:14,780 So that's that. 561 00:22:14,780 --> 00:22:17,820 The idea is tomorrow before the four. 562 00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:19,180 The yeah. 563 00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:20,620 V4. Yeah. So D. 564 00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:21,820 D. Y. D. X. 565 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:26,860 Man, I am pretty like I don't want to say excited, but I'm pretty interested 566 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:30,060 in the whole situation, the whole show. 567 00:22:31,460 --> 00:22:35,100 Mainly because it is the only while it's the first chain to launch 568 00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:38,020 with significantly different tokenomics. 569 00:22:38,380 --> 00:22:42,220 And it's going to be operating on V3, which is on Ethereum 570 00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:47,180 and the new D. Y. D. X. chain simultaneously for a while. 571 00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:49,300 So people don't have to like go straight over. 572 00:22:49,660 --> 00:22:53,540 But I think it indefinitely was the word I heard until they figured out. 573 00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:54,460 So I think it's got a long while. 574 00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:55,140 Really? 575 00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:55,540 Really? 576 00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:59,580 Well, they said they said, I mean, a long while, meaning like, I think 577 00:22:59,580 --> 00:23:03,740 there's so many people who've written kind of trading type of structures 578 00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:04,940 on V3. 579 00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:05,620 Yes. 580 00:23:05,860 --> 00:23:09,540 That and large traders that they said, we're not messing with any of that. 581 00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:17,420 So there's a bridge which is built into the new chain, which is kind of cool. 582 00:23:17,420 --> 00:23:21,820 It's got the Oracle, which is built into the new chain, which is also kind of cool. 583 00:23:21,820 --> 00:23:26,820 Because everybody knows how much of a fucking pain it is to maintain an Oracle. 584 00:23:28,620 --> 00:23:33,620 And also, but on the tokenomics, besides all the token unlocks 585 00:23:33,620 --> 00:23:38,420 and all the regular bullshit, the rev like there's no inflation. 586 00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:45,300 So once the token launches, the supply is the supply and all of the supply 587 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:46,980 comes from Ethereum. 588 00:23:46,980 --> 00:23:51,140 So if you want to have tokens on the DYDX chain, you got to bridge it 589 00:23:51,140 --> 00:23:56,340 and nothing is created or destroyed on the DYDX chain itself. 590 00:23:56,820 --> 00:23:59,140 So all of the tokens already exist. 591 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:00,500 You have to bridge them over. 592 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:04,820 There's a bunch of token unlocks on Ethereum very soon, like in, what is it? 593 00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:05,660 November sometime? 594 00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:07,380 What is it? November sometime? 595 00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:12,340 But all of the revenue is paid in USDC. 596 00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:17,620 So all the revenue on the chain, it's all from trading on the chain 597 00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:20,060 and it's all paid in USDC to the stakers. 598 00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,980 So well, I knew that it was all in USD or all paid to the stakers. 599 00:24:23,980 --> 00:24:26,420 I just didn't realize that it was denominated USDC. 600 00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:27,020 Yeah. 601 00:24:27,020 --> 00:24:31,340 So if you have a look at your your test net validator, you'll see that you have 602 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:37,820 no commission in that IBC denomination, which is the 603 00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:45,740 DYDX, but you will have just like a bunch of USDC from the trading fees. 604 00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:47,780 So pretty awesome. 605 00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:51,500 To me, that means that you can actually value that chain traditionally, 606 00:24:51,820 --> 00:24:57,060 like where you would use a discounting plus return method 607 00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:03,260 to actually value what that coin should be worth based on an expected return 608 00:25:03,420 --> 00:25:04,420 plus some risk. 609 00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:12,940 So I think I calculated it this week that and this is not financial 610 00:25:12,940 --> 00:25:15,100 advice for anyone and my math is pretty bad. 611 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:16,380 It's on the back of an envelope. 612 00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:23,380 But my my grew to mentally calculation was fair value of about six bucks 613 00:25:23,380 --> 00:25:27,100 based on a 10 percent return in stable coins. 614 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:28,500 So where is that? 615 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,260 Where's that USDC liquidity coming from? 616 00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:31,860 Like, is that how are they minting that? 617 00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:33,260 Is that like native? 618 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,660 They've already been minting it in Genesis. 619 00:25:35,660 --> 00:25:40,780 So it's it's already in a like a module controlled account from Genesis. 620 00:25:40,780 --> 00:25:43,100 So as people bridge, it comes out of that account. 621 00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:45,100 But what's supposed to come from Noble? 622 00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:46,580 Oh, so they're buying Noble. 623 00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:49,100 Oh, sorry, USDC, not the DYDX. 624 00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:50,180 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 625 00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:51,700 Are they buying that? 626 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:54,820 They probably they probably have a deal with Noble. 627 00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:58,020 I mean, they have to purchase it because Noble is basically buying it from 628 00:25:58,020 --> 00:26:00,180 Circle or however they fucking works. 629 00:26:00,180 --> 00:26:01,180 Probably. Yeah. 630 00:26:01,180 --> 00:26:06,860 And so so they're so and then they are there pools associated that or no? 631 00:26:07,780 --> 00:26:10,260 Like how like it's a mark. 632 00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:12,340 Yeah, like the trading platforms. 633 00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:14,300 So it's a book. 634 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:15,620 So you know, it's an order book, right? 635 00:26:15,620 --> 00:26:18,180 So there's a straight order book for that for so there. 636 00:26:18,540 --> 00:26:21,620 So those reserves on USDC, those are DYDX. 637 00:26:21,620 --> 00:26:23,060 DYDX owned reserves. 638 00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:26,500 And so based on staking and other types of things, that's basically 639 00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:28,100 coming out of that that structure. 640 00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:29,780 Well, then why? 641 00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:30,660 Why reserves? 642 00:26:30,660 --> 00:26:32,140 Why do they need reserves? 643 00:26:32,140 --> 00:26:33,060 Where's USDC coming? 644 00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:33,820 Who? 645 00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:35,140 It comes from the traders. 646 00:26:35,140 --> 00:26:38,420 So when the traders trade, they have to have USDC balance. 647 00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:39,540 Oh, I see. 648 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,180 So that's a fee that's coming in from the traders on the USDC side. 649 00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:42,420 Yeah. 650 00:26:42,420 --> 00:26:46,540 So when you trade, it takes a fee and that's instantly distributed to the stakers. 651 00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:47,580 I got you. 652 00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:48,020 I got you. 653 00:26:48,020 --> 00:26:50,100 Instantly or is that a epic based? 654 00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:52,900 Oh, I couldn't tell you that, but I would assume it was. 655 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:54,660 I'm assuming it's by block. 656 00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:56,700 Wow. OK. Cool. 657 00:26:56,700 --> 00:27:00,420 So so you have to have USDC to trade and that gets basically distributed based on. 658 00:27:00,420 --> 00:27:02,140 Oh, there goes the tape. 659 00:27:02,140 --> 00:27:03,620 Oh, no. 660 00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:06,020 Oh, no. 661 00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:08,140 My FOMO has kind of disappeared a little bit. 662 00:27:08,620 --> 00:27:09,220 That's expensive. 663 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:12,300 I mean, someone just needs to make a fucking bracket for these things 664 00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,620 that doesn't only attach to a fucking Apple monitor. 665 00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:20,300 They do get a really good one, man. 666 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:21,060 Yeah. 667 00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:23,820 It's due to also the gorilla mount where you strap in your phone 668 00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:26,980 and then it's got the three legs and you can just attach it to fucking anything. 669 00:27:28,020 --> 00:27:30,420 Oh, I know you're talking about the one that can like anchor over. 670 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:31,580 Yeah, that's one. 671 00:27:31,580 --> 00:27:33,980 I'm going to lose in a box somewhere around here. 672 00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:36,780 It's super useful. 673 00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:39,140 Just that is fucking hilarious. 674 00:27:39,140 --> 00:27:40,900 So they but there's a shit. 675 00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:42,340 Go look at just Google. 676 00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:43,420 Go on Amazon. 677 00:27:43,420 --> 00:27:45,340 Look for like a iPhone monitor. 678 00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:47,420 There's like a thousand of them. 679 00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:50,740 So for those of you listening on the podcast players, we know you do exist. 680 00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:56,060 What has just happened here is Null's iPhone has fallen off his monitor, 681 00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:58,420 whacked into the table and he's now fiddling with it. 682 00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:02,060 If you're wondering what we're talking about, that is it. 683 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,220 And if you're thinking we're 30 minutes in and we haven't talked about the news yet, 684 00:28:05,780 --> 00:28:06,660 you'd be right. 685 00:28:06,660 --> 00:28:08,420 So. 686 00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:09,660 Well, hold on. 687 00:28:09,660 --> 00:28:10,700 We deserve a little credit. 688 00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:11,940 We talked about DYDS. 689 00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:12,940 I mean, we've talked about DYDS. 690 00:28:12,940 --> 00:28:14,220 The active conversation. 691 00:28:14,220 --> 00:28:15,540 To be fair, it's pretty it's pretty active. 692 00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:18,820 And it was actually interrupted, if anything, quite a flowing conversation 693 00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:20,620 by the demise of the iPhone. 694 00:28:20,660 --> 00:28:24,700 So, you know, I shouldn't be so down on what's happened so far. 695 00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,020 I do see it sliding down the monitor 696 00:28:27,020 --> 00:28:30,260 because your head keeps going up in the frame. 697 00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:33,780 So so the freight, I don't think we're finished on DYDS 698 00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:37,940 because I saw you put up the the CircleStake logo 699 00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:40,100 even for just a brief second. 700 00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:45,260 But I think this I think this spits in the face of the CircleStake narrative. 701 00:28:45,620 --> 00:28:47,620 And I would like to hear your opinion on that. 702 00:28:48,140 --> 00:28:49,980 I mean, they're basically doing what Kajira is doing, right? 703 00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:51,740 Except for Kajira. 704 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:54,340 Kajira's got no inflation. 705 00:28:54,340 --> 00:28:57,140 So and their fees are paid in trading. 706 00:28:57,540 --> 00:29:00,300 Yeah, that's our own stable, though, right? 707 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:04,500 No. So the way that Kajira does it is they basically all trading 708 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:07,180 like probably Taker and Maker fees go to Stakers as well. 709 00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:10,740 And so you end up with just an insane amount of tokens in your commissions. 710 00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:14,900 I think it would be more sense to probably do it. 711 00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:17,700 DIYDX is doing this where it probably goes into some sort of escrow. 712 00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:21,780 And then it converts it to USDC and then pumps it to the Stakers. 713 00:29:21,780 --> 00:29:23,940 I think that's a smart idea. 714 00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:26,900 I think that they should just change their system 715 00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:31,060 so that all fees are paid in IST or USK or whatever the fuck. 716 00:29:31,060 --> 00:29:31,700 USK. 717 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:32,340 USK. 718 00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:36,580 So I was going to say, I think actually the fact that they are trying 719 00:29:36,580 --> 00:29:41,380 to make a system that pays for itself is admirable. 720 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:45,740 And as Noel says, I will give credit for I don't think it is. 721 00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:48,580 I think it does fly in the face of the circle state narrative. 722 00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:52,700 So heavily pushed by the cynical Mr. Frey. 723 00:29:53,020 --> 00:29:57,460 However, the Honourable Future Dr. Frey. 724 00:29:57,820 --> 00:29:59,140 So fucking. 725 00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:02,380 So I started writing my first paper, right? 726 00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:08,140 And it is on systemic risk and very heavily influenced 727 00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:11,340 by a certain prop that you may have seen in the Cosmos 728 00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:13,900 causing some drama in the last couple of years. 729 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,780 But there's essentially there's a narrative that says that a lot of the stuff 730 00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:24,780 that privacy nerds care about is like future problems. 731 00:30:24,780 --> 00:30:30,380 Like nobody is going to de-anonymise you anytime soon. 732 00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:33,500 You money is as good as anybody's public ledgers are great. 733 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:38,540 That's the kind of general consensus in. 734 00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:40,380 Well, the general consensus. 735 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,300 That's arguably the general consensus. 736 00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:46,500 Contention here is very much overtaken by events. 737 00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:47,980 That is not the case. 738 00:30:47,980 --> 00:30:52,740 And, you know, oh, actually, I was going to say, you know, and I remember 739 00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:56,380 that you Serpa was not in fact at the conference in Amsterdam 740 00:30:56,380 --> 00:31:01,940 where I saw artifact where on the trade floor, every single company 741 00:31:01,940 --> 00:31:05,500 that went to this FinTech conference that was anything to do with blockchain 742 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:10,100 was all about scraping a blockchain and trying to work out who the fuck all the people were. 743 00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:14,500 And it was a bit embarrassing that obviously a bunch of VCs had thrown 744 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:18,380 a load of money at these companies, and then they'd all turned up at the FinTech 745 00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:21,100 conference with 20 of the same fucking product. 746 00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:25,500 But what it does tell you is that a lot of money is being spent 747 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:32,540 a lot of money is being spunked up the wall in the bear market on how can we find out 748 00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:35,900 who the fuck you are and what the fuck you're doing on open ledgers. 749 00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:37,660 That is the big game in town. 750 00:31:37,660 --> 00:31:42,420 The last two physical blockchain meetups I've been to a company has been 751 00:31:42,420 --> 00:31:44,740 presenting on that being like, hey, we're not the enemy. 752 00:31:44,740 --> 00:31:45,700 We want to work with you. 753 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,100 We have all these reasons that we care about your privacy, but we are also 754 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:54,140 systematically working to undermine your financial privacy. 755 00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:55,460 Fucking assholes. 756 00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:55,980 Anyway. 757 00:31:57,180 --> 00:32:01,580 Well, see, the thing is, all you need is some sort of like scan for your eyes 758 00:32:01,580 --> 00:32:06,540 so you can like identify yourself on the chain privately and then be 759 00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:08,060 stored in a central database. 760 00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:09,300 It's very, very sensible, really. 761 00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:12,500 And the AI involved with this somehow. 762 00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:16,460 So anyway, the long and short of it is I'm writing a paper that says 763 00:32:16,460 --> 00:32:21,500 if you have a public ledger, token fungibility is fundamentally a myth. 764 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:25,100 It's a myth that relies only on the good grace of the system and granted. 765 00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:29,780 A lot of economic systems basically rely on the system continuing as if 766 00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:31,420 all of the failure modes don't exist. 767 00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:31,780 Right. 768 00:32:32,140 --> 00:32:33,060 That's a given. 769 00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:37,980 But every time we talk about all these systems that rely on stable coins, 770 00:32:37,980 --> 00:32:41,900 I look at a stable coin and I look at the fact it is an account based 771 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:48,340 abstraction and I go, that is fucking massive systemic risk. 772 00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:52,540 So the whole thing kind of seems fucking doomed by design to me now. 773 00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:54,060 Maybe I've been thinking about it too much. 774 00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:59,100 But stable coins are like the absolute one area where, you know, 775 00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:05,020 you could have like shit coins and not be not have any privacy because 776 00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:08,780 most shit coins, you don't have many of them and you use them for really 777 00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:11,260 specific things like trading or doing something. 778 00:33:11,260 --> 00:33:13,780 And then you trade out of them back into a stable coin. 779 00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:16,580 But the fact that my stable coins are still in the stable coins, 780 00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:20,740 but the fact that my stable coins are still using account based 781 00:33:20,740 --> 00:33:24,580 abstractions is, I don't know if I'll say that like, even whether or not, 782 00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:26,900 like there's obviously people spending hundreds of millions of dollars 783 00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:28,140 trying to de-anonymize you. 784 00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:31,140 I mean, it's all a bit of a mess. 785 00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:32,100 So I don't know. 786 00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:38,660 The least compelling part of the entire party is the USDC thing for me. 787 00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:41,780 And I know I'm a fucking prick about USDC being shit anyway. 788 00:33:41,780 --> 00:33:42,780 So sorry. 789 00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:44,300 But yeah. 790 00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:49,420 So wait, hold on, you're saying that USDC then is less trustworthy than USDT? 791 00:33:49,420 --> 00:33:50,420 Is that what you're saying? 792 00:33:50,420 --> 00:33:52,940 No, I'm saying they're all kind of potentially a bit fucked. 793 00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:53,940 Okay. 794 00:33:53,940 --> 00:34:01,700 But from DYDX standpoint, because it's systemic risk, 795 00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:05,300 it's like the 2008 financial crisis, like it's not real until it's real. 796 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,300 Like, MBSs aren't going to collapse until they collapse. 797 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:13,460 So YOLO, right, would be my summary of all of that. 798 00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:18,940 Like, I think the DYDX model is sound, but the stablecoins aren't sound. 799 00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:22,620 So my beef is with stablecoin, not with their general approach. 800 00:34:22,620 --> 00:34:28,460 And actually, I think what Noel described is, yeah, is reasonable. 801 00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:31,380 I think actually, both of what you guys were saying, 802 00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:35,660 we'll see what you were saying about escrow and presumably that's related to 803 00:34:35,660 --> 00:34:36,420 taxable events. 804 00:34:36,420 --> 00:34:40,300 I think that is like, that's a, to be honest, a programming model 805 00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:43,860 that we need to think about more as programmers, I think, in smart contracts 806 00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:48,260 and on blockchains, which is, you know, rather than, you can calculate 807 00:34:48,260 --> 00:34:52,820 stuff in shorter epochs or even at block length, but actually batching up 808 00:34:54,100 --> 00:35:00,340 largest operations into like longer timeframes, I think is eminently fucking sensible. 809 00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:05,100 And it has been happening as like, you know, loads of protocols in the cosmos, 810 00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:07,900 especially ones used to cause them, that can be changed more quickly, 811 00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,500 have been changing the way that they work on that respect to cause fewer taxable 812 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:14,500 events, which I think is a good thing to do. 813 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:18,700 And then like Noel says, like in general, like the more we talked about this a lot 814 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:19,500 with Tara, didn't we? 815 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:23,180 Like back in the day, like the closer you are to something comprehensible 816 00:35:23,180 --> 00:35:26,540 to a user like a stablecoin, the more successful your protocol is going to be, 817 00:35:26,540 --> 00:35:27,300 probably. 818 00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:31,380 So Noel's 100% on the money with that too, I guess. 819 00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:37,980 Well, I am pretty like just interested to see how it plays out. 820 00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:42,900 And to be honest, like, we're not talking small potatoes here either. 821 00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:45,860 Like that platform does a lot of... 822 00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:50,980 Well, so Ben Davis in the chat said the interesting thing, he said a few things, 823 00:35:50,980 --> 00:35:55,140 but one of the interesting things is that it has a Kajira like model, 824 00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:58,580 but with volume, right? 825 00:35:58,580 --> 00:35:59,100 Yeah. 826 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:01,420 And that, I think, is the interesting thing. 827 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:05,580 It's like, okay, what if we don't do a circle stake, but we also have volume? 828 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:10,140 That is, it's fucking mad to say that hasn't been tried in the cosmos yet, 829 00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:12,620 but it's been tried, but not with volume. 830 00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:19,380 Yeah, but in S, it's also the trading pairs are far outside the cosmos. 831 00:36:19,380 --> 00:36:24,700 Like it's using Tendermint, but this is not a Cosmos order book. 832 00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:25,820 No, it's not. 833 00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:30,460 Bitcoin, Ethereum, like Chainlink, like all the big boys from Ethereum, 834 00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:31,700 they're not really trading. 835 00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:35,980 And I think they like the thing with DYDX is that they're going to, 836 00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:41,940 as much as possible, abstract away the fact that you're on a DYDX, 837 00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:44,060 on a Cosmos SDK chain. 838 00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:45,300 It doesn't matter, right? 839 00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:49,740 Yeah, to the users, it will be the same experience except faster. 840 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:51,260 And I think that's the point. 841 00:36:51,260 --> 00:36:55,900 Right, yeah, to the users, it will be the same experience except faster. 842 00:36:57,060 --> 00:36:57,940 And cheaper. 843 00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:59,300 And cheaper, yeah. 844 00:36:59,300 --> 00:36:59,820 Right. 845 00:36:59,820 --> 00:37:02,740 So with all this said, the interesting thing here about talking about 846 00:37:02,740 --> 00:37:07,780 between Kajir and DYDX and Osmosis is Kajir actually just flipping DOSMO. 847 00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:12,700 It is now above Osmosis's market cap, which might be some sort of 848 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:17,260 representation of people seeing, oh, well, DYDX has this model. 849 00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:20,900 Kajir has a very similar thing, maybe be worthwhile to, you know, 850 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:23,420 in market cap, is that right? 851 00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:24,140 Yeah, yeah. 852 00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:25,820 But aren't you, go ahead. 853 00:37:25,820 --> 00:37:28,300 But aren't they, they're generating, what does that mean exactly? 854 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,100 They're generating their own token, right? 855 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:33,700 So is it, it's not trading volume because I just saw some stat that like 856 00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:36,900 Osmosis has like 93% of the trading volume in Cosmos. 857 00:37:37,420 --> 00:37:40,060 So what does market cap mean in that? 858 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:42,260 And do you know what that, what they're defining that as? 859 00:37:42,620 --> 00:37:44,580 Like just a value of the tokens that are underneath, right? 860 00:37:44,580 --> 00:37:50,060 Like purely, purely, there's so much koojee is and here's the total volume 861 00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:51,500 and it's out there and this is what the price is. 862 00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:52,180 Yeah. 863 00:37:52,540 --> 00:37:52,820 Yeah. 864 00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:57,660 So like it's above Osmo and CoinGecko right now, which is interesting. 865 00:37:57,660 --> 00:38:00,700 It used to be, you know, a hundred places behind it, or not a hundred. 866 00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:01,580 Yeah. 867 00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:03,340 Several hundred places behind it. 868 00:38:03,620 --> 00:38:05,940 I'd be interested in the actual volume moving. 869 00:38:06,340 --> 00:38:09,740 Like that, that, that, I mean, in the number of like daily users and those 870 00:38:09,740 --> 00:38:12,380 types of things, like, because the other stuff is kind of manufactured, isn't it? 871 00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:14,020 Like it's not many. 872 00:38:14,260 --> 00:38:15,780 I mean, it's all manufactured, right? 873 00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:18,060 Like we all, like, come on. 874 00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:18,860 Yeah. 875 00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:22,620 I don't want to burn the whole house down, but yeah, but like, yeah, you're right. 876 00:38:24,060 --> 00:38:24,380 Okay. 877 00:38:24,940 --> 00:38:26,340 Yes, it all means nothing. 878 00:38:26,380 --> 00:38:26,820 You're right. 879 00:38:26,940 --> 00:38:27,660 If we bear it up. 880 00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:31,980 I have actually realized, I just, I was just listening to you guys talking 881 00:38:31,980 --> 00:38:37,620 about this and an intrusive thought pops into my head, which is I think the rebuttal, 882 00:38:38,020 --> 00:38:43,100 the rebuttal of my paper is actually that you can defeat the systemic risk 883 00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:45,220 with a circle stake, right? 884 00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:50,060 So I feel like every time you say circle stake, it takes on a different meaning. 885 00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:53,020 It's a very useful term. 886 00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:53,460 Yes. 887 00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:54,820 But right. 888 00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:55,540 So, okay. 889 00:38:55,540 --> 00:38:58,500 So, so you know how the financial crash in 2008 happened, right? 890 00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:03,140 Which was that people kept going, oh shit, we've just uncovered all the systemic risk. 891 00:39:03,660 --> 00:39:09,820 But what if we made another derivative that would then just amortize our risk into 892 00:39:09,820 --> 00:39:13,460 a higher order derivative and then we could sell that even more? 893 00:39:13,460 --> 00:39:18,900 I think that the problem I'm describing is a amortized in crypto in the same way, 894 00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:23,220 which is that you're like, wow, shit, there's loads of systemic risk with USDC. 895 00:39:23,740 --> 00:39:30,180 But hey, if we put it into noble in cosmos and fucking any other ecosystem, whatever, 896 00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:36,300 just keep fucking spaffing it into more ecosystems, then like eventually the 897 00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:41,300 token is so widespread that even if it goes to shit in its original incarnation, 898 00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:43,740 like even if Ethereum halted, obviously not going to happen. 899 00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:46,420 But the bridge died at the other end. 900 00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:49,580 There's still noble USDC fucking floating around. 901 00:39:50,020 --> 00:39:54,100 You've just created so many different representations of the same fucking thing 902 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:56,420 that it's too big to fail, right? 903 00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:58,300 The circle stake wins. 904 00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:04,380 I'm so distracted by your fucking like academia look now with your 905 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:05,940 toxic hair and your fucking turtleneck. 906 00:40:06,940 --> 00:40:07,700 I had this. 907 00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:08,100 I had this. 908 00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:11,380 I had this stuff like, oh, yeah, you fuck with. 909 00:40:11,380 --> 00:40:12,420 Yeah, but now you're wearing it. 910 00:40:12,860 --> 00:40:14,620 So I was wearing it last year. 911 00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:18,340 You just hang in the club and look at it and think to yourself one day, 912 00:40:18,340 --> 00:40:20,540 Dr. Fray, one day, that fucking day's come. 913 00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:22,700 And now you've got it out here. 914 00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:25,540 You got that turtleneck almost touching your fucking ears. 915 00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:29,220 You got like this tough to shit going over your head now with your. 916 00:40:30,020 --> 00:40:31,260 It's pretty good hair. 917 00:40:31,540 --> 00:40:31,940 Yeah. 918 00:40:32,580 --> 00:40:33,140 Don't be hate. 919 00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:34,260 Just because I got more of it. 920 00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:37,780 And this is a Submarinus jumper. 921 00:40:37,780 --> 00:40:42,020 It's a very practical item of clothing for the cold and old and winter. 922 00:40:42,020 --> 00:40:43,380 It's look like I'll come to your defense. 923 00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:44,660 I remember that turtleneck. 924 00:40:46,140 --> 00:40:46,860 Oh, thank you. 925 00:40:46,860 --> 00:40:47,340 Thank you. 926 00:40:47,820 --> 00:40:51,580 Just remember hanging on the shelf in the background with all the other 927 00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:51,740 shit. 928 00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:52,020 Great. 929 00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:53,420 It's great fucking jumper. 930 00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:56,860 You're you're kind of slowly morphling into Matt Damon and good 931 00:40:56,860 --> 00:40:57,420 wheel hunting. 932 00:40:57,860 --> 00:41:01,820 And I feel like I feel like the rest of us are just morphling into a janitor. 933 00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:05,380 No, the rest of us are Ben Affleck just trying to be like, go, dude. 934 00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:06,260 Yeah, make it happen. 935 00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:06,460 Yeah. 936 00:41:06,460 --> 00:41:08,020 Yeah, yeah. 937 00:41:08,660 --> 00:41:10,420 Don't talk to us like you're talking about Williams. 938 00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:11,700 Like a chucky. 939 00:41:12,540 --> 00:41:17,540 Like the way I see the rest of us is like a non player character just sort of 940 00:41:17,540 --> 00:41:20,900 backing up and walking into a door, backing up and walking into a door. 941 00:41:21,540 --> 00:41:25,180 Unlike the phrase just drives the spaceship over the top of the door. 942 00:41:25,420 --> 00:41:26,220 I'm fucking. 943 00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:30,180 I you know, I wish I had actually made a meme of it. 944 00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:34,740 I could pre preload it into our into our slick podcasting software. 945 00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:39,380 One of my favorite memes, which is not really a meme because only I fucking use 946 00:41:39,380 --> 00:41:39,620 it. 947 00:41:39,940 --> 00:41:44,020 But you know, in Goodwill Hunting, when there's that scene where Chucky goes 948 00:41:44,380 --> 00:41:49,940 to the job interview that I literally can't even remember what Ben Ben, Ben Damon, 949 00:41:50,660 --> 00:41:54,860 Matt Damon, Ben Damon, Matt Damon. 950 00:41:54,860 --> 00:41:56,420 I can't remember what his fucking character is called. 951 00:41:56,420 --> 00:41:57,780 Who gives a shit doesn't matter. 952 00:41:58,220 --> 00:42:01,860 Ben, Ben Damon is supposed to go to that job interview. 953 00:42:01,860 --> 00:42:04,540 And then Chucky goes to it instead. 954 00:42:04,740 --> 00:42:09,660 And he's just like, Ritz Heiner, you know, with his arms wide and he just 955 00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:13,620 leads back in the chair and they're just like, who the fuck is this Joker? 956 00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:14,660 But look on his face. 957 00:42:14,660 --> 00:42:16,460 He's so certain it will work. 958 00:42:16,860 --> 00:42:17,860 And of course it does. 959 00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:21,220 That is the single best moment in the film. 960 00:42:21,580 --> 00:42:25,940 And I have a screen grab of that and occasionally just add a word on top of it. 961 00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,940 But that's the that's the don't ask, don't get that moment. 962 00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:31,740 I was like, Hey, no. 963 00:42:31,740 --> 00:42:33,820 And next week, the word's going to be circle stick. 964 00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:36,100 Circle stick. 965 00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:38,220 Yeah, something like that. 966 00:42:38,220 --> 00:42:39,220 You saw it. 967 00:42:39,220 --> 00:42:40,220 You saw right here. 968 00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:42,220 First folks, the Frey Maming. 969 00:42:42,740 --> 00:42:44,540 I mean, fuck, we should just. 970 00:42:44,860 --> 00:42:45,540 You know what? 971 00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:51,100 So to the title of this podcast, right, we did the whole validators of the real 972 00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:51,900 heroes things. 973 00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:54,380 I made the fucking t-shirt design, right? 974 00:42:54,660 --> 00:42:55,660 That happened. 975 00:42:55,940 --> 00:42:57,140 You Serpa vetoed it. 976 00:42:57,140 --> 00:42:59,860 So the t-shirt saga. 977 00:42:59,860 --> 00:43:00,860 Oh, really? 978 00:43:00,860 --> 00:43:01,860 I didn't veto. 979 00:43:01,860 --> 00:43:03,460 I just didn't think it was that funny. 980 00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:04,460 Was there a vote? 981 00:43:04,460 --> 00:43:05,460 Okay. 982 00:43:05,460 --> 00:43:06,460 There was no vote. 983 00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:08,460 Do we need a prop? 984 00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:10,460 We didn't put a prop in the dial to be fair. 985 00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:12,860 I mean, did it really happen if it wasn't voted on? 986 00:43:13,860 --> 00:43:17,700 If it didn't happen on a public ledger, was it really even a thing? 987 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:19,500 Much like much like paying our news game. 988 00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:24,860 Yeah, like it just, you know, the super the super had a fucking an opinion. 989 00:43:24,860 --> 00:43:28,500 But I mean, there's two other people in this now, like maybe we had a differing 990 00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:30,500 opinion could have written in fucking comment. 991 00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:32,900 No, so I fucking hated it. 992 00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:34,380 I didn't want to hurt your feelings. 993 00:43:36,380 --> 00:43:38,980 You think my feelings would be hurt by that? 994 00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:43,020 I have much thinner skin than I actually have. 995 00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:45,580 I don't give a fuck with that fucking light. 996 00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:48,220 I can see through your skin into your fucking bone. 997 00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:49,220 That's true. 998 00:43:49,220 --> 00:43:50,220 That's true. 999 00:43:50,220 --> 00:43:53,740 Weird lighting in here for a while. 1000 00:43:53,740 --> 00:43:56,780 Lighting in here for a guy that's quite brown as well. 1001 00:43:56,780 --> 00:44:01,060 Although maybe I look more brown than you right now. 1002 00:44:01,060 --> 00:44:02,700 I'm not this brown in real life. 1003 00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:03,700 This is all the camera. 1004 00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:07,580 Yeah, this is probably more the massively over exposed to be fair. 1005 00:44:07,580 --> 00:44:09,820 It's also the camera has like a lighting ring on it. 1006 00:44:09,820 --> 00:44:15,140 So I'm getting like blasted in the face by really helpful white light. 1007 00:44:15,140 --> 00:44:16,780 You're right. 1008 00:44:16,780 --> 00:44:19,780 Cheek is so fucking overexposed. 1009 00:44:19,780 --> 00:44:20,780 It's not funny. 1010 00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:21,980 Like there is not. 1011 00:44:21,980 --> 00:44:23,140 Yeah, that one. 1012 00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:25,740 Oh, is it reverse camera? 1013 00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:31,540 That cheek is like got so much overexposure that it's just part half of your face is white. 1014 00:44:31,540 --> 00:44:32,540 There you go. 1015 00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:36,300 It's even that way without the reading light. 1016 00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:37,300 Weird. 1017 00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:38,300 Weird. 1018 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:39,300 Weird. 1019 00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:40,300 Weird. 1020 00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:41,300 Yeah. 1021 00:44:41,300 --> 00:44:46,540 And the weird thing is that this light, I think, yeah, it's kind of more on that side. 1022 00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:47,860 Fucking it is, mate. 1023 00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:50,740 Like literally the only thing that's here is a wall. 1024 00:44:50,740 --> 00:44:52,860 There's a wall there where my hand is. 1025 00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:53,860 But I don't know. 1026 00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:56,580 Maybe it's reflecting off the wall. 1027 00:44:56,580 --> 00:44:59,700 Anyway, it's not important. 1028 00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:01,900 I mean, should we continue with the news? 1029 00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:04,340 So paint your room black, get some softboxes. 1030 00:45:04,340 --> 00:45:05,340 Okay. 1031 00:45:05,340 --> 00:45:06,340 So here's the thing. 1032 00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:08,460 We've tried a bunch of t-shirt ideas. 1033 00:45:08,460 --> 00:45:10,020 We tried the iDump shitcoins. 1034 00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:12,340 We tried the GoMod tidy. 1035 00:45:12,340 --> 00:45:14,060 None of these things have happened. 1036 00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:18,620 The one t-shirt design that does exist, it actually exists. 1037 00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:24,180 We fucking, those of you who are a Cosmiverse may have seen this guy. 1038 00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:25,180 They do exist. 1039 00:45:25,180 --> 00:45:26,180 All these exist. 1040 00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:28,780 It's not that it's anybody can. 1041 00:45:28,780 --> 00:45:30,380 This one exists. 1042 00:45:30,380 --> 00:45:31,900 Anyone can create a t-shirt. 1043 00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:33,460 It's the actual building of them. 1044 00:45:33,460 --> 00:45:34,460 They're making up the t-shirt. 1045 00:45:34,460 --> 00:45:35,860 This is where it's all falling apart. 1046 00:45:35,860 --> 00:45:40,940 I think at this point, our most iconic contribution is this. 1047 00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:41,940 Yeah. 1048 00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:43,820 And I think that's the t-shirt. 1049 00:45:43,820 --> 00:45:50,180 I think by default, by a sheer grinding down, an evolutionary process, a battle to the death, 1050 00:45:50,180 --> 00:45:58,100 a thunderdome of t-shirt apathy has led us to the only survivor being circle steak, the 1051 00:45:58,100 --> 00:45:59,620 only logical conclusion. 1052 00:45:59,620 --> 00:46:00,620 Okay. 1053 00:46:00,620 --> 00:46:01,620 I have to step in here. 1054 00:46:01,620 --> 00:46:07,540 I feel like you feel like that our only contribution to society is the circle steak 1055 00:46:07,540 --> 00:46:08,540 sign. 1056 00:46:08,540 --> 00:46:11,420 I mean, I still really like the North Vido shirt. 1057 00:46:11,420 --> 00:46:13,660 The North Vido shirt really did it for me. 1058 00:46:13,660 --> 00:46:14,660 That's a good shirt. 1059 00:46:14,660 --> 00:46:15,660 That one was fantastic. 1060 00:46:15,660 --> 00:46:16,660 Did someone design that one? 1061 00:46:16,660 --> 00:46:17,660 No, it was great. 1062 00:46:17,660 --> 00:46:18,660 Yeah. 1063 00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:19,660 I think, I think, right? 1064 00:46:19,660 --> 00:46:20,660 You ignored that too. 1065 00:46:20,660 --> 00:46:21,660 Who made it? 1066 00:46:21,660 --> 00:46:23,660 I said, I said, let's go. 1067 00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:24,660 I don't know. 1068 00:46:24,660 --> 00:46:26,460 We have plenty of good ideas. 1069 00:46:26,460 --> 00:46:30,060 It's the actual creation. 1070 00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:32,340 It's the, we just, we all have a problem with finishing. 1071 00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:33,340 Literally all of these. 1072 00:46:33,340 --> 00:46:37,980 But like, we do have a problem with finishing. 1073 00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:39,860 I fucking don't. 1074 00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:42,300 I got a quote for t-shirt printing. 1075 00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:47,740 I just need to know how many, because you need to know how many colors dipshits. 1076 00:46:47,740 --> 00:46:50,420 It seems like you have a problem with finishing. 1077 00:46:50,420 --> 00:46:55,100 Sorry, your t-shirt is a legendarily bullshit. 1078 00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:59,460 Our t-shirts with fucking legendarily legendary. 1079 00:46:59,460 --> 00:47:08,020 So I have actually engaged a artist for a new shirt to draw a picture of your balls. 1080 00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:12,180 Look, the content is not important at this point. 1081 00:47:12,180 --> 00:47:15,220 We're still spitballing ideas, but. 1082 00:47:15,220 --> 00:47:19,180 So you hired somebody to redo the King's t-shirt. 1083 00:47:19,180 --> 00:47:27,660 I have made a hire for an artist and given them more ideas than you can poke a fucking 1084 00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:28,660 stick at. 1085 00:47:28,660 --> 00:47:30,660 This is going to look like Picasso soup. 1086 00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:36,100 I don't think that paying someone on five recounts is hiring is the thing. 1087 00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:39,340 Do you think your ideas are the direction that person needs? 1088 00:47:39,340 --> 00:47:49,300 I think they should take my ideas, put them in a box, come up with their own ideas, which 1089 00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:58,300 is why I'm paying them five bucks and then present those ideas to me and convince me 1090 00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:01,100 that I need them. 1091 00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:06,940 And I'll proceed to give them another five bucks. 1092 00:48:06,940 --> 00:48:09,900 Will your shirts be printed before consensus 2024? 1093 00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:13,500 I believe in our collective issues with finishing. 1094 00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:14,500 I don't know. 1095 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:17,220 Don't mind fucking issues, mate. 1096 00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:18,220 He does. 1097 00:48:18,220 --> 00:48:19,220 He did have. 1098 00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:20,220 I do have a needle cash shirt. 1099 00:48:20,220 --> 00:48:21,220 So it doesn't exist. 1100 00:48:21,220 --> 00:48:23,620 I mean, I have a shirt. 1101 00:48:23,620 --> 00:48:24,620 Like we all have a shirt. 1102 00:48:24,620 --> 00:48:26,340 I do have a King knows shirt. 1103 00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:28,500 I don't have a shirt. 1104 00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:30,500 But you do have a sticker that's on my laptop. 1105 00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:35,300 Wait, no, I'm pretty sure you do have a fucking shirt because I saw one and oh, no, was that 1106 00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:36,300 sticker? 1107 00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:37,300 I had a shirt. 1108 00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:38,300 You know what? 1109 00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:39,300 No. 1110 00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:41,860 Highs actually had shirts and hoodies and stuff printed. 1111 00:48:41,860 --> 00:48:44,300 So there are actually shirts that exist of five under five. 1112 00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:45,300 So I take that back. 1113 00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:46,300 Yeah. 1114 00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:47,300 I have a problem finishing, but high. 1115 00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:52,780 Pretty sure I saw one in Amsterdam, but that wasn't one of my size. 1116 00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:54,980 I was like, ah, damn. 1117 00:48:54,980 --> 00:48:59,500 What if what if I made patches and people can make their own fucking shit? 1118 00:48:59,500 --> 00:49:02,100 You just give them the patches and they sew it on there like grandma. 1119 00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:04,100 Well, you could just do that on Redbubble. 1120 00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:07,500 Again, actually good shirt rather than a shit. 1121 00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:08,500 Yeah, they're pretty shit. 1122 00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:12,500 You know that redbubble ones are good. 1123 00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:17,940 I still make a few quid every year from some shit Emax puns that I put on Redbubble a few 1124 00:49:17,940 --> 00:49:18,940 years ago. 1125 00:49:18,940 --> 00:49:24,060 And every time there's a conference with Emax users, somebody buys like 50 fucking stickers 1126 00:49:24,060 --> 00:49:25,500 and I get two points of beer. 1127 00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:26,500 It's great. 1128 00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:27,500 Really? 1129 00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:28,500 For an Emax? 1130 00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:29,500 Yeah. 1131 00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:30,700 You're not the one that makes. 1132 00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:32,500 So one of them, I actually did an illustration. 1133 00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:37,300 I think it's the only illustration I've ever done as like an actual illustration. 1134 00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:38,300 I drew it. 1135 00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:39,300 I fucking drew it. 1136 00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:44,140 It took ages and then I then, because I didn't really know what I was doing, I scanned it 1137 00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:52,140 into the computer and then I rewent over it with like essentially brushes in illustrator 1138 00:49:52,140 --> 00:49:53,140 or Photoshop. 1139 00:49:53,140 --> 00:49:55,500 I can't remember one or two to actually then draw out the design. 1140 00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:58,900 It took fucking ages, definitely not how illustrators would actually do it. 1141 00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:03,780 And I made this design and I thought it was really proud of it and it occasionally sells 1142 00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:06,220 a t-shirt or some stickers or whatever. 1143 00:50:06,220 --> 00:50:08,060 And I was like, hey, that's kind of cool. 1144 00:50:08,060 --> 00:50:14,140 And then I was cycling home from work one day and I was like, huh, the word Emax is 1145 00:50:14,140 --> 00:50:16,820 the same number of letters as back. 1146 00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:21,780 And I was like, what if you put the back to the future logo, but you put the word Emax 1147 00:50:21,780 --> 00:50:23,220 instead of back? 1148 00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:25,580 It doesn't even really make sense. 1149 00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:28,780 Do you have a shirt that says Emax to the future? 1150 00:50:28,780 --> 00:50:32,340 I don't own it because the joke doesn't really work for me. 1151 00:50:32,340 --> 00:50:37,300 Like it's sort of adjacent to a joke, but it's not really a joke. 1152 00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:38,980 But I just made that. 1153 00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:40,220 It took five minutes. 1154 00:50:40,220 --> 00:50:44,780 I put it on Redbubble and I think it's made me about $400 at this point. 1155 00:50:44,780 --> 00:50:45,780 Wow. 1156 00:50:45,780 --> 00:50:46,780 Yeah, I know. 1157 00:50:46,780 --> 00:50:48,580 Like, I'm not even kidding. 1158 00:50:48,580 --> 00:50:52,300 When there is a conference where there are a bunch of Emax users, some guy will be like, 1159 00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:55,460 that's kind of, is that funny? 1160 00:50:55,460 --> 00:50:56,460 I don't know. 1161 00:50:56,460 --> 00:50:57,460 I think it's funny. 1162 00:50:57,460 --> 00:50:58,460 Whatever. 1163 00:50:58,460 --> 00:51:02,940 And then they buy 50 stickers and then I'm like, cool. 1164 00:51:02,940 --> 00:51:03,940 Whatever, man. 1165 00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:09,060 That's really a testament to the quality of Emax user. 1166 00:51:09,060 --> 00:51:10,060 Yeah. 1167 00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:17,220 I mean, what can I tell you other than, I think there are things that take loads of time and 1168 00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:19,900 effort and not the ones that ever make you money. 1169 00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:24,700 The things you're proud of are not the ones anybody else ever proud of. 1170 00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:30,820 As a project, you know, our project here, the potty, I think the only product we've 1171 00:51:30,820 --> 00:51:38,020 made or someone here made, fucking wasn't me, that is any good is the Wagtag sticker. 1172 00:51:38,020 --> 00:51:39,020 We should just sell those. 1173 00:51:39,020 --> 00:51:40,020 That's a great sticker. 1174 00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:41,020 We could sell those. 1175 00:51:41,020 --> 00:51:43,380 We could sell those as a pin. 1176 00:51:43,380 --> 00:51:45,380 Yeah, it's just the delivery. 1177 00:51:45,380 --> 00:51:46,380 Yeah. 1178 00:51:46,380 --> 00:51:47,380 But we could do that. 1179 00:51:47,380 --> 00:51:48,380 We have those. 1180 00:51:48,380 --> 00:51:51,060 We have those game of note stickers, which I think are pretty good. 1181 00:51:51,060 --> 00:51:52,060 We could just issue this. 1182 00:51:52,060 --> 00:51:57,780 So in the chat, Bandei has said, is the is the jumper secret game of notes merch? 1183 00:51:57,780 --> 00:51:59,500 Yeah, we can. 1184 00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:04,300 We can sell you a Submarine is jumper with Wagtag on it. 1185 00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:06,460 No, no, no, no, just classic. 1186 00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:08,900 Just the classic maybe blue. 1187 00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:12,260 So you just want to become an apparel company now and not put anything on it. 1188 00:52:12,260 --> 00:52:14,420 You just want to sell the fucking shit. 1189 00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:15,420 And let's see. 1190 00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:16,420 That's right. 1191 00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:18,540 Well, I was one of them. 1192 00:52:18,540 --> 00:52:19,540 That's right. 1193 00:52:19,540 --> 00:52:23,420 Yeah, we never got the shout out in the in the picture as far as I can tell. 1194 00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:24,420 That's right. 1195 00:52:24,420 --> 00:52:25,420 We did. 1196 00:52:25,420 --> 00:52:26,420 We do. 1197 00:52:26,420 --> 00:52:28,420 We did do a second one to one NFT baby baby onesie. 1198 00:52:28,420 --> 00:52:29,420 The onesie is amazing. 1199 00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:31,420 That was a good onesie is framed. 1200 00:52:31,420 --> 00:52:33,100 Yeah, that was good. 1201 00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:41,020 Yeah, I I pressed the button and had that produced IRL after after provided. 1202 00:52:41,020 --> 00:52:45,700 It took many of us to really make that happen. 1203 00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:50,540 I had to create the graphic and do all the work of that and like get it all correct and 1204 00:52:50,540 --> 00:52:53,700 right size it and then I had to send to you and you had to click one button. 1205 00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:56,580 I was really it was definitely a team effort on that one. 1206 00:52:56,580 --> 00:52:58,580 There was more than one button. 1207 00:52:58,580 --> 00:53:00,460 I had to fucking upload it. 1208 00:53:00,460 --> 00:53:01,700 I had to size it. 1209 00:53:01,700 --> 00:53:06,020 I had to painfully sit there and decided if I wanted to pay the money or not. 1210 00:53:06,020 --> 00:53:08,460 And then I had to fucking press the button. 1211 00:53:08,460 --> 00:53:10,060 Rema says, well, the baby grew and it didn't fit. 1212 00:53:10,060 --> 00:53:12,020 Yeah, that's what happens with those. 1213 00:53:12,020 --> 00:53:13,340 That's the yeah. 1214 00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:14,860 So part of the fun. 1215 00:53:14,860 --> 00:53:21,700 I think, OK, so I've just OK, as a side business that might actually be profitable, I think 1216 00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:25,980 you probably could sell these jumpers in America, right? 1217 00:53:25,980 --> 00:53:30,940 Because these are really cheap because they produce a load of them for the Royal Navy and 1218 00:53:30,940 --> 00:53:33,140 they have they have a specification. 1219 00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:35,420 They have an MOD specification. 1220 00:53:35,420 --> 00:53:39,420 They have to be made with British wool and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, anyway. 1221 00:53:39,420 --> 00:53:41,180 And they have to be like particularly hard wearing. 1222 00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:42,540 Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. 1223 00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:50,780 I don't think there is just a lineup of people wanting to wear British wool, robbing a bank. 1224 00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:52,140 Hold up. 1225 00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:55,460 So the thing is, they're actually really durable. 1226 00:53:55,460 --> 00:53:56,580 They're really warm. 1227 00:53:56,580 --> 00:54:00,940 They're really good and they're really cheap because they have to make fucking loads of 1228 00:54:00,940 --> 00:54:02,820 them for the Royal Navy, right? 1229 00:54:02,820 --> 00:54:08,140 So why could you not just buy them in England? 1230 00:54:08,140 --> 00:54:11,940 Because I don't think you can buy them elsewhere because they're military surplus, but you 1231 00:54:11,940 --> 00:54:18,380 can buy them bulk here, then put a new fucking label on them saying fucking Billy Big Bulls, 1232 00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:21,900 Fancy, Jumper, B. Steve Jobs. 1233 00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:22,900 You're a twat. 1234 00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:24,220 You want to be Steve Jobs. 1235 00:54:24,220 --> 00:54:25,220 Let's fucking go. 1236 00:54:25,220 --> 00:54:29,220 That might be a long name to put on the on the neck. 1237 00:54:29,220 --> 00:54:31,220 Is that the URL? 1238 00:54:31,220 --> 00:54:32,300 Yeah, whatever. 1239 00:54:32,300 --> 00:54:36,420 You guys, you guys understand marketing better than I do. 1240 00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:37,860 You fucking tell me, right? 1241 00:54:37,860 --> 00:54:42,620 So then you put your own fucking thing in the neck of Rue, right? 1242 00:54:42,620 --> 00:54:48,060 And then put a fancy swing tag on it and then wrap it up in brown fucking paper, right? 1243 00:54:48,060 --> 00:54:52,820 Which you can get a warehouse, just get a bunch of people to do that. 1244 00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:57,460 And then you fucking sell that shit for $200. 1245 00:54:57,460 --> 00:55:03,660 And believe me, that would be, you would be getting a very healthy margin on that. 1246 00:55:03,660 --> 00:55:06,020 Nobody wears turtlenecks is the problem. 1247 00:55:06,020 --> 00:55:11,900 Okay, so we have that's a very, that's like peak hipster. 1248 00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:17,100 You could stand at the front of your local college and flog them and at a pop up stand, 1249 00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:18,100 maybe. 1250 00:55:18,100 --> 00:55:21,180 I mean, if it was 19, I mean, it's very more profitable than being a Cosmos father. 1251 00:55:21,180 --> 00:55:24,420 They tell us fucking face it academia is all over that look. 1252 00:55:24,420 --> 00:55:28,380 You could sell them like the whole tough week. 1253 00:55:28,380 --> 00:55:34,380 No, no, no, you need to paraphrase it is one of those like beanies that don't go over your 1254 00:55:34,380 --> 00:55:36,740 ear, the ones that are like itsy bitsy. 1255 00:55:36,740 --> 00:55:41,740 Yeah, like rolled up thing that the silo's way that with a year. 1256 00:55:41,740 --> 00:55:42,740 Exactly. 1257 00:55:42,740 --> 00:55:43,740 Yeah. 1258 00:55:43,740 --> 00:55:46,380 Or we should we should brand that square hat with the dangly thing. 1259 00:55:46,380 --> 00:55:47,380 Oh, yeah. 1260 00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:49,380 Yeah, that's true. 1261 00:55:49,380 --> 00:55:50,380 Yeah. 1262 00:55:50,380 --> 00:55:52,380 Maybe we should. 1263 00:55:52,380 --> 00:55:58,860 If you were a game and nodes square hat with a dangly thing at graduation, that that would 1264 00:55:58,860 --> 00:55:59,860 be respect. 1265 00:55:59,860 --> 00:56:04,860 I don't think I'm not sure you graduate and do you graduate from a postgraduate? 1266 00:56:04,860 --> 00:56:09,380 No, I think you just up on stage and then you got to wear robes and then did it. 1267 00:56:09,380 --> 00:56:10,380 I don't know. 1268 00:56:10,380 --> 00:56:11,380 You could get one of those. 1269 00:56:11,380 --> 00:56:15,340 You could get like a giant gold medallion with the chain and put that over your. 1270 00:56:15,340 --> 00:56:17,580 Even they just say thanks for the cash, Egypt. 1271 00:56:17,580 --> 00:56:19,700 And then they tell you fuck off. 1272 00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:20,700 Fuck off. 1273 00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:23,940 Enjoy your that would be funny to do with your watching bullshit. 1274 00:56:23,940 --> 00:56:30,180 Good luck out there. 1275 00:56:30,180 --> 00:56:33,940 The world's moved down while you've been in here. 1276 00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:36,420 Fucking idiot. 1277 00:56:36,420 --> 00:56:37,420 I am. 1278 00:56:37,420 --> 00:56:42,820 Yeah, I had a whole thing where I was I needed to debug some stuff on the server the other 1279 00:56:42,820 --> 00:56:46,100 day very urgently. 1280 00:56:46,100 --> 00:56:50,780 And it was literally like the only place I could. 1281 00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:54,540 Well luckily there's the fucking loads of buildings now in central London that are owned 1282 00:56:54,540 --> 00:56:59,020 by University College London that I can swipe a pass go into and there's free fucking Wi-Fi, 1283 00:56:59,020 --> 00:57:00,180 which is great. 1284 00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:06,220 Actually very high strongly recommend a PhD is a very expensive way of getting free Wi-Fi 1285 00:57:06,220 --> 00:57:09,180 throughout London. 1286 00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:12,340 And then you just like sat there with all these like you're just like fuck, fuck, fuck, 1287 00:57:12,340 --> 00:57:14,700 fuck, fuck, like in the corner of like essentially a library. 1288 00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:15,700 They're all libraries. 1289 00:57:15,700 --> 00:57:16,700 There's just loads of loads. 1290 00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:19,580 You see how it has like fucking 19 libraries or the fuck anyway. 1291 00:57:19,580 --> 00:57:21,820 That's probably more than it has whatever anyway. 1292 00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:27,060 And you're just like, there's no like what the fuck am I doing with my life more than 1293 00:57:27,060 --> 00:57:30,780 being my age in the like huddling the corner of a library. 1294 00:57:30,780 --> 00:57:35,460 Well there's all these fucking kids sorry with their lives ahead of them. 1295 00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:39,620 And you're just like, why aren't the fucking ports mapping properly? 1296 00:57:39,620 --> 00:57:42,700 And you're like the life of a validator man. 1297 00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:43,700 Fucking. 1298 00:57:43,700 --> 00:57:46,380 It's like I'm actually 24. 1299 00:57:46,380 --> 00:57:50,180 This is just how it's aged me, you know, fucking. 1300 00:57:50,180 --> 00:57:52,180 I'm actually 20. 1301 00:57:52,180 --> 00:57:53,980 I'm actually 20. 1302 00:57:53,980 --> 00:57:56,420 Do you know what it's really weird as well? 1303 00:57:56,420 --> 00:58:01,340 You talk to undergraduates and they're talking about like, like, like I can remember it and 1304 00:58:01,340 --> 00:58:02,340 it is very real. 1305 00:58:02,340 --> 00:58:05,100 Like I don't want to diminish it like it's fucking stressful being a student in your 1306 00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:09,300 final year and whatnot and looking at the world of work and being like fuck, what am 1307 00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:10,300 I going to do? 1308 00:58:10,300 --> 00:58:12,980 I need to fucking pay my rent and shit. 1309 00:58:12,980 --> 00:58:18,580 But like it feels baffling, you know, when you've been doing this shit for too long. 1310 00:58:18,580 --> 00:58:25,820 And you're just like, oh yeah, yeah, imagine not having to just buy default fucking work 1311 00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:28,180 like that it's this new thing that you're worried about. 1312 00:58:28,180 --> 00:58:29,900 You definitely want to do. 1313 00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:30,900 Fuck. 1314 00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:32,900 I don't know. 1315 00:58:32,900 --> 00:58:33,900 Yeah. 1316 00:58:33,900 --> 00:58:39,820 Like do you ever like look back at your misspent career in tech and be like and then you like 1317 00:58:39,820 --> 00:58:43,020 I guess is what you do when you see somebody who's on a different point of their career, 1318 00:58:43,020 --> 00:58:44,020 right? 1319 00:58:44,020 --> 00:58:48,420 They haven't even started their career in tech and you're just like, you should do it, obviously, 1320 00:58:48,420 --> 00:58:50,340 but it is a Faustian bargain. 1321 00:58:50,340 --> 00:58:51,340 Young Padawan. 1322 00:58:51,340 --> 00:58:52,340 Only in blockchain. 1323 00:58:52,340 --> 00:58:53,340 Don't watch your blockchain. 1324 00:58:53,340 --> 00:58:54,340 Don't watch your blockchain. 1325 00:58:54,340 --> 00:58:55,340 Whatever you do, don't watch your blockchain. 1326 00:58:55,340 --> 00:58:56,340 Just stay away from that. 1327 00:58:56,340 --> 00:59:03,340 Just stay the fuck away from that basically would be my recommendation. 1328 00:59:03,340 --> 00:59:08,420 I was coming back to Schultz's comment on Kujira and Asposys and market caps and all 1329 00:59:08,420 --> 00:59:09,420 that kind of stuff. 1330 00:59:09,420 --> 00:59:12,220 I was just back on CoinGecko looking at that data. 1331 00:59:12,220 --> 00:59:13,220 That's actually you're right. 1332 00:59:13,220 --> 00:59:20,700 They definitely flip position in terms of market cap with Kujira at 168 million and 1333 00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:22,700 Osmo at 166. 1334 00:59:22,700 --> 00:59:29,740 But the trading volume per day is almost 20x on Osmo. 1335 00:59:29,740 --> 00:59:31,820 I got 4x from what I was looking at. 1336 00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:36,420 I got Kujira looks like it's about 1 million and Osmosis is about 4 million per day. 1337 00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:43,180 Kujira and CoinGecko shows Kujira at 600,000 and Osmo at 10 million. 1338 00:59:43,180 --> 00:59:44,180 Interesting. 1339 00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:45,660 I looked at the different websites. 1340 00:59:45,660 --> 00:59:47,460 I went straight to the source. 1341 00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:48,460 There must be different. 1342 00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:49,460 I don't know. 1343 00:59:49,460 --> 00:59:51,900 CoinGecko might be getting from God knows where they get their... 1344 00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:52,900 It's fine. 1345 00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:53,900 Research, showdown. 1346 00:59:53,900 --> 00:59:58,580 I'm just restating what's on CoinGecko. 1347 00:59:58,580 --> 01:00:00,700 Yeah, it's interesting. 1348 01:00:00,700 --> 01:00:04,820 I'm really curious on the actual volume on each thing. 1349 01:00:04,820 --> 01:00:08,900 I know Osmosis drives the majority of actual moves. 1350 01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:12,500 But because it actually goes back into one of the news items, which I don't really want 1351 01:00:12,500 --> 01:00:17,540 to talk about, but one of the news items this week was that something comes to the realization 1352 01:00:17,540 --> 01:00:19,980 that Osmo isn't the real hub. 1353 01:00:19,980 --> 01:00:21,540 This is Rama's. 1354 01:00:21,540 --> 01:00:25,180 Rama says that bots trade on Osmo only. 1355 01:00:25,180 --> 01:00:26,180 Sure. 1356 01:00:26,180 --> 01:00:30,220 No, but there's no doubt about it. 1357 01:00:30,220 --> 01:00:32,700 You make that case for any of these. 1358 01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:35,020 You're doing that bots trade on Kujira as well. 1359 01:00:35,020 --> 01:00:37,220 You know, at this point, I am all of... 1360 01:00:37,220 --> 01:00:38,860 Crypto is just one big bottom. 1361 01:00:38,860 --> 01:00:42,900 It's always just like a circle stake. 1362 01:00:42,900 --> 01:00:48,220 I also am like, at this point, when we have a kind of, we're all drinking beer fireside 1363 01:00:48,220 --> 01:00:51,300 chat, we really should just have Rama and Ben on. 1364 01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:55,500 Because all we're doing is talking to the chat, which is Rama and Ben. 1365 01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:56,500 Yeah. 1366 01:00:56,500 --> 01:00:57,500 Yeah. 1367 01:00:57,500 --> 01:00:58,500 That's not a bad idea, honestly. 1368 01:00:58,500 --> 01:01:00,260 And reading their news, which... 1369 01:01:00,260 --> 01:01:04,180 Anyway, so I guess, Sunny, he's coming back. 1370 01:01:04,180 --> 01:01:05,180 There's a... 1371 01:01:05,180 --> 01:01:11,980 I'll put a link in the show notes to both his tweet as well as there's a link to the 1372 01:01:11,980 --> 01:01:13,340 Commonwealth, or not Commonwealth. 1373 01:01:13,340 --> 01:01:15,780 It's on the Adam Cosmos... 1374 01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:17,420 Did we mention that? 1375 01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:18,420 What the hack chat is? 1376 01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:20,140 That's what I'm doing right now. 1377 01:01:20,140 --> 01:01:21,140 900,000. 1378 01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:22,140 That's what I'm doing right now. 1379 01:01:22,140 --> 01:01:23,140 You pay attention. 1380 01:01:23,140 --> 01:01:24,140 So you said... 1381 01:01:24,140 --> 01:01:25,140 Get in there. 1382 01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:26,940 You said that kind of has sort of... 1383 01:01:26,940 --> 01:01:28,420 I'm trying to bring it back on Rails. 1384 01:01:28,420 --> 01:01:29,420 Smoothly, smoothly. 1385 01:01:29,420 --> 01:01:30,420 Yeah. 1386 01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:31,780 And to the news segment. 1387 01:01:31,780 --> 01:01:33,780 So smoothly, in fact. 1388 01:01:33,780 --> 01:01:34,780 That Noel fell asleep. 1389 01:01:34,780 --> 01:01:35,780 Yeah. 1390 01:01:35,780 --> 01:01:36,780 Noel certainly... 1391 01:01:36,780 --> 01:01:38,780 Should we talk about the news? 1392 01:01:38,780 --> 01:01:39,780 Yeah. 1393 01:01:39,780 --> 01:01:40,780 I made that presentation. 1394 01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:41,780 That's how smooth it is. 1395 01:01:41,780 --> 01:01:43,020 So the fun thing about this piece of news, right? 1396 01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:45,420 So the piece of news is that... 1397 01:01:45,420 --> 01:01:50,420 Why do we have to derail everything of progress on this episode? 1398 01:01:50,420 --> 01:01:52,100 I didn't realize that you're doing this. 1399 01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:54,100 It was very smooth, very smooth. 1400 01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:56,820 So Noel's kind of cocked us up. 1401 01:01:56,820 --> 01:01:58,820 Let's shit on it now. 1402 01:01:58,820 --> 01:02:01,580 Osmosis, right? 1403 01:02:01,580 --> 01:02:03,860 Isn't part of the Atomic Economic Zone. 1404 01:02:03,860 --> 01:02:06,260 Once a bit of the pie, Rama's words there. 1405 01:02:06,260 --> 01:02:07,540 I'm using them verbatim. 1406 01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:10,060 Thank you, Rama. 1407 01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:12,820 Requesting 900K atoms to use as protocol and liquidity. 1408 01:02:12,820 --> 01:02:13,820 Osmosis. 1409 01:02:13,820 --> 01:02:18,340 The fun thing about reading this news item in particular is that when I... 1410 01:02:18,340 --> 01:02:22,860 Back to the previous point about people we should just have on the podcast. 1411 01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:28,780 When I was reading the links that Rama had posted to this piece, I just discovered... 1412 01:02:28,780 --> 01:02:33,780 Ben Davis' thoughts on this exact piece of news on the thread. 1413 01:02:33,780 --> 01:02:35,780 And was like, that's interesting. 1414 01:02:35,780 --> 01:02:37,780 Thank you, Ben. 1415 01:02:37,780 --> 01:02:42,780 Maybe the real circle of stake was the viewers we discovered along the way. 1416 01:02:42,780 --> 01:02:44,780 What was his piece of news on this? 1417 01:02:44,780 --> 01:02:54,780 Oh, just that Ben wrote a quite substantial write-up on the post that Sonny had posted on the atom forum. 1418 01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:55,780 Oh, yeah. 1419 01:02:55,780 --> 01:02:56,780 I do see Bendy one. 1420 01:02:56,780 --> 01:03:00,780 Anyway, so I'll put a link to that prop. 1421 01:03:00,780 --> 01:03:01,780 So, yeah. 1422 01:03:01,780 --> 01:03:03,780 So anyway, I mean, also increase... 1423 01:03:03,780 --> 01:03:07,780 The comment was increase Osmos TVL by 10% increase the atom. 1424 01:03:07,780 --> 01:03:11,780 And ST atom stride atom liquidity by 50%. 1425 01:03:11,780 --> 01:03:12,780 I thought that the... 1426 01:03:12,780 --> 01:03:18,780 I read through a bunch of the comments associated to this and both stride supporting this. 1427 01:03:18,780 --> 01:03:23,780 And I saw Bendy's and Robo's comment associated this. 1428 01:03:23,780 --> 01:03:30,780 There's so many people that in this thread culling out that the idea that Osmos has become a consumer chain as a part of this prop. 1429 01:03:30,780 --> 01:03:36,780 And I thought that was just fascinating that that had like that came up where that any... 1430 01:03:36,780 --> 01:03:45,780 So the AES or this idea that we're trying to be able to take this source of wealth within the cosmos. 1431 01:03:45,780 --> 01:03:52,780 And so therefore anything that gets used to that source of wealth has to be a consumer chain. 1432 01:03:52,780 --> 01:03:56,780 And I think in my eyes defeats the whole fucking purpose of this ecosystem. 1433 01:03:56,780 --> 01:03:59,780 Well, and like, sorry, continue with your talk. 1434 01:03:59,780 --> 01:04:00,780 No, that was it. 1435 01:04:00,780 --> 01:04:05,780 It's just fascinating that like, if you went back two years, I know the baron, all this type of stuff, 1436 01:04:05,780 --> 01:04:11,780 but if you went back two years, this idea that if anybody wants to take a liquidity or therefore they have to be a consumer chain 1437 01:04:11,780 --> 01:04:13,780 and we have one validator set, it goes like... 1438 01:04:13,780 --> 01:04:17,780 I would never would have thought that conversation would have happened 18 months ago. 1439 01:04:17,780 --> 01:04:19,780 It's just interesting what drives that. 1440 01:04:19,780 --> 01:04:22,780 Yeah, it's driven by DJs rather than by... 1441 01:04:22,780 --> 01:04:24,780 Well, it's kind of... 1442 01:04:24,780 --> 01:04:29,780 Yeah, well, it's a bit like, I don't know, it's a bit Lord of the Rings where I have my precious. 1443 01:04:29,780 --> 01:04:37,780 And precious, like this precious is that we have this huge amount of like, we have this huge value that we've created in this thing 1444 01:04:37,780 --> 01:04:39,780 and we're trying to figure out how to protect it. 1445 01:04:39,780 --> 01:04:45,780 And so anybody who wants to come and take a piece of that, like, then we instantly clam up and that we have to... 1446 01:04:45,780 --> 01:04:52,780 We have a method with ICS to be able to use a position to take advantage of those consumer chains, right? 1447 01:04:52,780 --> 01:04:57,780 Or to be able to make them an income generating type of source for my precious. 1448 01:04:57,780 --> 01:05:00,780 I believe you're actually talking about rent. 1449 01:05:00,780 --> 01:05:03,780 I believe you're talking about becoming a rentier class. 1450 01:05:03,780 --> 01:05:04,780 Was that me? 1451 01:05:04,780 --> 01:05:07,780 Well, so it's essentially rent seeking behavior, isn't it? 1452 01:05:07,780 --> 01:05:13,780 Where you say, I have capital, I would like rent for my capital. 1453 01:05:13,780 --> 01:05:22,780 You want my capital, so I'm going to demand rent in exchange for any marginal benefit extracted from my capital. 1454 01:05:22,780 --> 01:05:24,780 But that exists anyway, right? 1455 01:05:24,780 --> 01:05:27,780 You could do that just by having LPs and having... 1456 01:05:27,780 --> 01:05:29,780 There's processes to be able to do that. 1457 01:05:29,780 --> 01:05:41,780 What this really is, is not that I'm taking rent for that capital, but I'm taking ownership of your home and renting it back to you from an ICS perspective. 1458 01:05:41,780 --> 01:05:46,780 So it's like a traditional bag kick, actually, isn't it? 1459 01:05:46,780 --> 01:05:49,780 But ICS doesn't take ownership. 1460 01:05:49,780 --> 01:05:50,780 I don't agree. 1461 01:05:50,780 --> 01:05:52,780 They don't take ownership? 1462 01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:54,780 No, they just provide the security, right? 1463 01:05:54,780 --> 01:05:55,780 They still... 1464 01:05:55,780 --> 01:05:56,780 Well, you're a lot... 1465 01:05:56,780 --> 01:05:58,780 It still has all of its own token. 1466 01:05:58,780 --> 01:06:04,780 If anything, I think ICS chains are taking advantage of Adam. 1467 01:06:04,780 --> 01:06:08,780 They're basically getting free fucking validating. 1468 01:06:08,780 --> 01:06:10,780 So they're having their cake and eating it too. 1469 01:06:10,780 --> 01:06:11,780 I don't agree. 1470 01:06:11,780 --> 01:06:13,780 They're taking advantage. 1471 01:06:13,780 --> 01:06:15,780 Except their cake's a shit cake. 1472 01:06:15,780 --> 01:06:17,780 Well, but it's not that... 1473 01:06:17,780 --> 01:06:18,780 Yeah. 1474 01:06:18,780 --> 01:06:19,780 There is no cake. 1475 01:06:19,780 --> 01:06:20,780 That's the point. 1476 01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:21,780 They have no... 1477 01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:22,780 Fucking gummy bear. 1478 01:06:22,780 --> 01:06:23,780 I don't know, but... 1479 01:06:23,780 --> 01:06:25,780 Well, it's not a fucking gummy bear either, no. 1480 01:06:25,780 --> 01:06:26,780 It's nothing. 1481 01:06:26,780 --> 01:06:27,780 They have nothing. 1482 01:06:27,780 --> 01:06:31,780 Well, they have their nothing and it gets to exist for free, basically. 1483 01:06:31,780 --> 01:06:32,780 Yeah, but that's the point. 1484 01:06:32,780 --> 01:06:33,780 It's nothing. 1485 01:06:33,780 --> 01:06:34,780 If you have... 1486 01:06:34,780 --> 01:06:35,780 No, that's... 1487 01:06:35,780 --> 01:06:36,780 If that stops... 1488 01:06:36,780 --> 01:06:37,780 No. 1489 01:06:37,780 --> 01:06:39,780 If that stops, their party stops. 1490 01:06:39,780 --> 01:06:40,780 What do they owe? 1491 01:06:40,780 --> 01:06:41,780 What do they owe? 1492 01:06:41,780 --> 01:06:48,340 What you were just saying is that Adam was taking ownership and thus reaping the benefit 1493 01:06:48,340 --> 01:06:49,780 in a rentier-like behavior. 1494 01:06:49,780 --> 01:06:51,780 Yeah, I'm pretty solidator-safe. 1495 01:06:51,780 --> 01:06:54,780 I'm saying that Adam doesn't get fucking anything out of it. 1496 01:06:54,780 --> 01:06:57,780 They get to provide security basically for free. 1497 01:06:57,780 --> 01:06:58,780 True. 1498 01:06:58,780 --> 01:07:00,780 No, they do get something out of it because they can... 1499 01:07:00,780 --> 01:07:01,780 They get to say, oh, we've got an... 1500 01:07:01,780 --> 01:07:04,780 They can stop their chain and then you go to zero. 1501 01:07:04,780 --> 01:07:05,780 What? 1502 01:07:05,780 --> 01:07:08,780 How much closer to zero can some of those things get? 1503 01:07:08,780 --> 01:07:10,780 Okay, fair point. 1504 01:07:10,780 --> 01:07:13,780 That's like near at the bottom of the long term. 1505 01:07:13,780 --> 01:07:20,280 Okay, my point is, look, I don't give a shit that much about all of this complete libertarian 1506 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:26,880 stuff, as you know, but a big portion of this entire fucking circle stake is supposed to 1507 01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,780 be against the idea that somebody can tell you what to do. 1508 01:07:30,780 --> 01:07:37,220 And fundamentally, although it would result in a systemic collapse of Adam, when you 1509 01:07:37,220 --> 01:07:42,220 agree to ICS, you are under the cosh of the Adam economic zone. 1510 01:07:42,220 --> 01:07:43,220 Right? 1511 01:07:43,220 --> 01:07:48,220 It is like being a state in the US and saying, we will accept federal jurisdiction. 1512 01:07:48,220 --> 01:07:49,580 It is conceptually similar. 1513 01:07:49,580 --> 01:07:54,660 You have like, okay, I'm fucking really mixing metaphors here, but whatever. 1514 01:07:54,660 --> 01:07:57,580 Some stuff you get to work out for yourself, some stuff you don't. 1515 01:07:57,580 --> 01:08:02,140 Fundamentally, if you fuck up enough, the US Army comes knocking at your door, right? 1516 01:08:02,140 --> 01:08:07,340 And in the case of permissionless blockchains, which are primarily economic in nature, the 1517 01:08:07,340 --> 01:08:11,140 only thing they can really fucking do is shut you down, right? 1518 01:08:11,140 --> 01:08:16,600 But fundamentally, on a really serious level, you don't own anything, right? 1519 01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:21,040 So long as you're renting your security, you are a renter, right? 1520 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,780 It is like renting a flat versus owning a flat, something like that. 1521 01:08:24,780 --> 01:08:30,980 At the end of the day, your landlord can, under certain situations, perhaps ruinously 1522 01:08:30,980 --> 01:08:38,900 for themselves because of some economic circumstance around throwing you out, right? 1523 01:08:38,900 --> 01:08:42,580 And it might be economically ruinous for them to do so for whatever reason. 1524 01:08:42,580 --> 01:08:43,580 You might sue them. 1525 01:08:43,580 --> 01:08:44,580 Who knows? 1526 01:08:44,580 --> 01:08:46,420 But they can throw you out, right? 1527 01:08:46,420 --> 01:08:47,500 That is always a risk. 1528 01:08:47,500 --> 01:08:48,500 And that's like... 1529 01:08:48,500 --> 01:08:57,300 I don't agree with that analogy at all because there has to be an exchange of something to 1530 01:08:57,300 --> 01:09:02,420 be a renter like handing you a fucking empty envelope is not renting anything. 1531 01:09:02,420 --> 01:09:04,060 Well, so I think you're correct. 1532 01:09:04,060 --> 01:09:07,060 I think the problem is people are... 1533 01:09:07,060 --> 01:09:09,260 They're saying that they're going to pay rent, right? 1534 01:09:09,260 --> 01:09:12,700 Like, that's the big argument that they're saying, all right, so by taking us on, you're 1535 01:09:12,700 --> 01:09:14,620 going to earn all this rent. 1536 01:09:14,620 --> 01:09:16,820 And the reality is they're not actually fulfilling it, right? 1537 01:09:16,820 --> 01:09:19,060 Okay, but doesn't that make my point... 1538 01:09:19,060 --> 01:09:25,140 Certificate a renting analogy, but doesn't that make my concern about risk even more 1539 01:09:25,140 --> 01:09:26,140 about it? 1540 01:09:26,140 --> 01:09:30,780 You're in the position of being a renter and you're a deadbeat, right? 1541 01:09:30,780 --> 01:09:35,660 So not only are you in the weak asymmetric power position of being a renter of the thing 1542 01:09:35,660 --> 01:09:40,020 that keeps the party going, but you're also a deadbeat renter who isn't paying any fucking 1543 01:09:40,020 --> 01:09:41,020 rent. 1544 01:09:41,020 --> 01:09:42,020 I think that's a risk. 1545 01:09:42,020 --> 01:09:46,060 That's what you're saying is that they're hostages to Adam. 1546 01:09:46,060 --> 01:09:47,380 I don't think they're renting. 1547 01:09:47,380 --> 01:09:48,380 Yeah, 100%. 1548 01:09:48,380 --> 01:09:49,380 Yeah. 1549 01:09:49,380 --> 01:09:52,460 But a renter is a hostage to a landlord. 1550 01:09:52,460 --> 01:09:57,420 I don't know if that's fair though, because I don't actually see a reality in which the 1551 01:09:57,420 --> 01:09:59,980 validators go, you know what, neutron hasn't paid us. 1552 01:09:59,980 --> 01:10:01,860 We're running on this extra hardware. 1553 01:10:01,860 --> 01:10:02,860 Fuck them. 1554 01:10:02,860 --> 01:10:04,540 Let's vote them out and then kick neutron out. 1555 01:10:04,540 --> 01:10:06,540 I would probably vote on that. 1556 01:10:06,540 --> 01:10:08,380 I'd be like, I'm ready to rock. 1557 01:10:08,380 --> 01:10:11,740 Well, not necessarily against neutron, but like... 1558 01:10:11,740 --> 01:10:16,380 I mean, eventually, if it continued the way it was going, it would happen, right? 1559 01:10:16,380 --> 01:10:19,060 Yeah, so you think that would happen? 1560 01:10:19,060 --> 01:10:20,060 There would be such... 1561 01:10:20,060 --> 01:10:22,500 People tend to shut down Chihuahua like three times. 1562 01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:26,180 The only chain that I'm aware of that's been shut down is Cerberus, Kerberus, whatever. 1563 01:10:26,180 --> 01:10:27,180 Yeah. 1564 01:10:27,180 --> 01:10:28,860 And that even shut down was contentious. 1565 01:10:28,860 --> 01:10:30,540 That wasn't even 100% voting. 1566 01:10:30,540 --> 01:10:31,540 Shut down is being... 1567 01:10:31,540 --> 01:10:33,660 Shut down is separate being kicked out of the ICS. 1568 01:10:33,660 --> 01:10:35,660 Like, you would... 1569 01:10:35,660 --> 01:10:40,140 Because back to the Adam validators set, I know that we've made... 1570 01:10:40,140 --> 01:10:47,820 There's a ton of rules and I guess provisions around what validators have to participate 1571 01:10:47,820 --> 01:10:49,700 and how much ownership they have. 1572 01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:50,700 There's... 1573 01:10:50,700 --> 01:10:54,420 They've broken the kind of the idea of having a validator set to be able to make this structure 1574 01:10:54,420 --> 01:10:55,780 fit, right? 1575 01:10:55,780 --> 01:10:57,100 Because the incentives aren't there. 1576 01:10:57,100 --> 01:11:02,340 Now, eventually, not saying it's where we are, but if those pressure gets higher and 1577 01:11:02,340 --> 01:11:07,060 higher and the number of ICS chains grow and the losses keep going, then those rules would 1578 01:11:07,060 --> 01:11:08,260 change again. 1579 01:11:08,260 --> 01:11:12,180 And at some point, is it possible that they say, fuck this chain, get this chain out of 1580 01:11:12,180 --> 01:11:13,180 here? 1581 01:11:13,180 --> 01:11:14,180 And they have to move off? 1582 01:11:14,180 --> 01:11:15,180 Yeah, of course they would, right? 1583 01:11:15,180 --> 01:11:16,180 Like, I mean, that's... 1584 01:11:16,180 --> 01:11:17,660 I would think, why wouldn't that happen? 1585 01:11:17,660 --> 01:11:20,940 Like, they would... somebody would find that and say, we're going to get this out of here. 1586 01:11:20,940 --> 01:11:21,940 It's not valuable. 1587 01:11:21,940 --> 01:11:23,580 It doesn't mean the chain stops. 1588 01:11:23,580 --> 01:11:24,580 It just means that export... 1589 01:11:24,580 --> 01:11:27,060 It just gets kicked out of the renting situation. 1590 01:11:27,060 --> 01:11:28,220 I don't like that analogy. 1591 01:11:28,220 --> 01:11:31,020 Ben, I just say anything at this whole conversation. 1592 01:11:31,020 --> 01:11:33,580 He is fucking walking around in circles in his room. 1593 01:11:33,580 --> 01:11:34,580 I just can't fucking understand. 1594 01:11:34,580 --> 01:11:35,580 You still embed them, so it doesn't matter. 1595 01:11:35,580 --> 01:11:40,300 I just can't fucking understand why people understand your keys, your crypto, but somehow 1596 01:11:40,300 --> 01:11:47,140 people in Cosmos have got this fucking idea into their heads that, you know, not your 1597 01:11:47,140 --> 01:11:48,140 ledger. 1598 01:11:48,140 --> 01:11:49,140 Yeah, totally fine. 1599 01:11:49,140 --> 01:11:50,140 Your crypto. 1600 01:11:50,140 --> 01:11:53,980 It's like, no, you run the ledger or you don't fucking run the ledger. 1601 01:11:53,980 --> 01:11:57,780 150, 200 validators is already not decentralized. 1602 01:11:57,780 --> 01:11:59,660 It's already fucking theater. 1603 01:11:59,660 --> 01:12:01,380 It's a complete joke. 1604 01:12:01,380 --> 01:12:05,140 It is massively vulnerable. 1605 01:12:05,140 --> 01:12:09,820 The only reason that, you know, is that luckily 200 people can never agree on anything, ever. 1606 01:12:09,820 --> 01:12:15,620 That's the only reason that there isn't any major risk factor from a 200 validator set. 1607 01:12:15,620 --> 01:12:19,220 And then it's like, okay, we're going to centralize all the remaining chains into this and this 1608 01:12:19,220 --> 01:12:20,660 big basket of risk. 1609 01:12:20,660 --> 01:12:21,660 And that's totally cool. 1610 01:12:21,660 --> 01:12:24,860 It's like, yeah, okay, at that point, let's just fucking give up. 1611 01:12:24,860 --> 01:12:26,540 Like IBC is the party. 1612 01:12:26,540 --> 01:12:29,740 The entire party in the Cosmos ecosystem is IBC. 1613 01:12:29,740 --> 01:12:36,740 And ICS is just fundamentally, it takes IBC and it just makes a mockery of it. 1614 01:12:36,740 --> 01:12:37,740 I don't know. 1615 01:12:37,740 --> 01:12:38,980 I just don't know how to put it any better than that. 1616 01:12:38,980 --> 01:12:39,980 Like I think it's a joke. 1617 01:12:39,980 --> 01:12:46,300 The two technologies are fundamentally antithetical to one another. 1618 01:12:46,300 --> 01:12:47,540 I think that's a bit of a stretch. 1619 01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:51,860 I don't want to consider them antithetical, but I do think it kind of like makes you squint 1620 01:12:51,860 --> 01:12:52,860 a little bit, right? 1621 01:12:52,860 --> 01:12:56,300 Like mesh security, I think fits pretty well within the IBC narrative. 1622 01:12:56,300 --> 01:12:57,300 It does. 1623 01:12:57,300 --> 01:12:58,300 Sure. 1624 01:12:58,300 --> 01:12:59,700 ICS doesn't hit that. 1625 01:12:59,700 --> 01:13:00,700 Harder and more difficult. 1626 01:13:00,700 --> 01:13:01,700 But yeah, I agree. 1627 01:13:01,700 --> 01:13:02,700 I love Sonny's comment. 1628 01:13:02,700 --> 01:13:06,620 So he's going to, what would be a suitable form of alignment that doesn't involve adopting 1629 01:13:06,620 --> 01:13:10,900 an immature technology like ICS v1? 1630 01:13:10,900 --> 01:13:12,620 Working blockchain. 1631 01:13:12,620 --> 01:13:16,300 We deal with it. 1632 01:13:16,300 --> 01:13:18,620 We're sure technologies, my man. 1633 01:13:18,620 --> 01:13:22,220 Gold ratio said, why in the earth would the hub give us most of $6 million more in liquidity 1634 01:13:22,220 --> 01:13:25,700 when they can keep it in house on neutron and duality? 1635 01:13:25,700 --> 01:13:30,700 Well, part of the reason is that osmosis is 93% of the actual transient. 1636 01:13:30,700 --> 01:13:33,100 I don't even know how to use neutron. 1637 01:13:33,100 --> 01:13:34,100 Yeah. 1638 01:13:34,100 --> 01:13:37,780 Actually, I had a look, I had a Google duality after that comment because I was like, what 1639 01:13:37,780 --> 01:13:38,780 the hell is that? 1640 01:13:38,780 --> 01:13:40,780 It's a slipknot album, isn't it? 1641 01:13:40,780 --> 01:13:41,780 I don't know. 1642 01:13:41,780 --> 01:13:44,780 I don't really know a slipknot. 1643 01:13:44,780 --> 01:13:49,980 I mean, I literally, I know that one song that always comes on when you go to a metal 1644 01:13:49,980 --> 01:13:57,020 silent disco at a festival, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, that one. 1645 01:13:57,020 --> 01:13:58,020 That's a slipknot, isn't it? 1646 01:13:58,020 --> 01:13:59,580 I quite like slipknot to be honest. 1647 01:13:59,580 --> 01:14:04,060 I haven't listened to it in a very long time, but in like high school, that was my jam. 1648 01:14:04,060 --> 01:14:08,140 I was more of a system of a down kind of guy. 1649 01:14:08,140 --> 01:14:09,300 I know what you got. 1650 01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:12,260 What is actually launched on neutron? 1651 01:14:12,260 --> 01:14:15,540 I am not aware of anything other than like Astroport. 1652 01:14:15,540 --> 01:14:17,100 Do they, do they do anything else? 1653 01:14:17,100 --> 01:14:18,100 Does anyone know? 1654 01:14:18,100 --> 01:14:20,500 I don't, I'm looking to do it right now. 1655 01:14:20,500 --> 01:14:22,500 I'm not a validator there. 1656 01:14:22,500 --> 01:14:26,500 So because I ain't on the old at home on the old at home. 1657 01:14:26,500 --> 01:14:27,500 Tom. 1658 01:14:27,500 --> 01:14:29,820 Hey, what the fuck is this bathroom incident about? 1659 01:14:29,820 --> 01:14:33,900 I read the thing and it's, it's just looks like someone's memeing hard. 1660 01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:34,900 The old coach. 1661 01:14:34,900 --> 01:14:35,900 Yeah. 1662 01:14:35,900 --> 01:14:42,500 I, so the news item here is that there is a Twitter link and then shown us from Oxdow, 1663 01:14:42,500 --> 01:14:44,100 which I don't know who this person is. 1664 01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:45,980 I don't know if he knows who this is. 1665 01:14:45,980 --> 01:14:46,980 Yeah. 1666 01:14:46,980 --> 01:14:52,780 It isn't, isn't it is the name of the, of grandpa sister, grandpa Simpson's squadmate 1667 01:14:52,780 --> 01:14:57,780 who died while taking the, when you don't have to, you know, when they have the top 1668 01:14:57,780 --> 01:14:59,820 team in the Simpsons. 1669 01:14:59,820 --> 01:15:00,820 To obscure. 1670 01:15:00,820 --> 01:15:01,820 So yeah. 1671 01:15:01,820 --> 01:15:02,820 Coach. 1672 01:15:02,820 --> 01:15:03,820 He died. 1673 01:15:03,820 --> 01:15:08,620 He got her near carrying the art out of the, out of the Chateau, right? 1674 01:15:08,620 --> 01:15:09,620 Fuck. 1675 01:15:09,620 --> 01:15:13,220 I want to eat your own Simpsons fans. 1676 01:15:13,220 --> 01:15:18,460 Coach does a, a spaces like on, I think it's like a Friday night thing in the States. 1677 01:15:18,460 --> 01:15:21,220 It's like, it's like on Saturday here. 1678 01:15:21,220 --> 01:15:24,180 And I don't, I'm not sure if he still does it, man, but I used to listen to it sometimes 1679 01:15:24,180 --> 01:15:27,460 and I was driving places and it was fucking funny. 1680 01:15:27,460 --> 01:15:31,620 But it's, yeah, but it's, it's like the whole thing's fucking satire. 1681 01:15:31,620 --> 01:15:36,820 So I can only assume that this is satire as well, but, you know, it does. 1682 01:15:36,820 --> 01:15:39,140 I really like that there. 1683 01:15:39,140 --> 01:15:40,140 Conversation starter. 1684 01:15:40,140 --> 01:15:42,740 What, what goes on in the bathroom at Osmo con? 1685 01:15:42,740 --> 01:15:43,740 Yeah. 1686 01:15:43,740 --> 01:15:46,140 It was a little bit, it was a little bit direct, I thought. 1687 01:15:46,140 --> 01:15:49,340 Well, it's not direct cause it doesn't even talk about the hell happened or who it is. 1688 01:15:49,340 --> 01:15:54,340 But, but anyway, I feel like it's one of those scenes where there's like, you know, there's 1689 01:15:54,340 --> 01:15:58,940 a whole scene and then like everybody leaves and then someone comes out of the store and 1690 01:15:58,940 --> 01:16:01,580 it's like, it's coach. 1691 01:16:01,580 --> 01:16:05,340 I had to leave a comment, of course. 1692 01:16:05,340 --> 01:16:10,020 So what's the, sorry, I just keep going back to cause it mentioned Osmo again. 1693 01:16:10,020 --> 01:16:14,700 I was just like, I can't stop thinking about that rent, man. 1694 01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:17,500 I'm going to make this analogy work for fuck's sake. 1695 01:16:17,500 --> 01:16:18,860 No, fuck the analogy. 1696 01:16:18,860 --> 01:16:19,860 The analogy. 1697 01:16:19,860 --> 01:16:23,140 If I could just make them understand my point of view. 1698 01:16:23,140 --> 01:16:24,140 The analogy. 1699 01:16:24,140 --> 01:16:25,140 Fuck the analogy. 1700 01:16:25,140 --> 01:16:30,620 Anyway, we're okay now, but we're in a position now where like the during, during the, even 1701 01:16:30,620 --> 01:16:37,900 the tail end of the bull, even a while ago, you know, the Osmo was the real hub was like 1702 01:16:37,900 --> 01:16:42,340 a meme, but also like, you know, don't let your memes just be dreams. 1703 01:16:42,340 --> 01:16:59,300 You know, but I would say that the, the, you know, the Osmo is Osmo's relevance, right? 1704 01:16:59,300 --> 01:17:03,340 Not to say it's market, not to mention it's market cap was so heavily correlated with 1705 01:17:03,340 --> 01:17:09,660 the success of the wider ecosystem that, you know, is, is like, I think it's a very bearish 1706 01:17:09,660 --> 01:17:11,140 indicator, isn't it? 1707 01:17:11,140 --> 01:17:13,940 That this is where Osmo is right now. 1708 01:17:13,940 --> 01:17:19,500 And like, obviously there are newer dexism, what not coming in the space and all that 1709 01:17:19,500 --> 01:17:22,660 kind of thing that, that's all sort of happened in the meantime. 1710 01:17:22,660 --> 01:17:27,820 So if a bear, if a bull market rolled around tomorrow, would we expect to see Osmo back 1711 01:17:27,820 --> 01:17:33,420 in that conversation of like the hub or do you think other things have taken its place 1712 01:17:33,420 --> 01:17:34,820 now at this point? 1713 01:17:34,820 --> 01:17:39,060 To be clear, like, I don't, I don't think that was considered in terms of ICS. 1714 01:17:39,060 --> 01:17:43,940 I think that was one of the, that was just a commentary from, from individuals on that 1715 01:17:43,940 --> 01:17:44,940 group. 1716 01:17:44,940 --> 01:17:49,340 I don't think I would not think that the Osmo team would consider that at all. 1717 01:17:49,340 --> 01:17:50,340 Well, of course not. 1718 01:17:50,340 --> 01:17:54,780 No, but, but, but like, you know, the fact that the fact that smart assets will even 1719 01:17:54,780 --> 01:17:59,660 raise that I think is a very, I think is a bearish indicator on Osmo, but it's also 1720 01:17:59,660 --> 01:18:02,540 I think a bearish indicator on the whole cosmos. 1721 01:18:02,540 --> 01:18:03,540 What, which part? 1722 01:18:03,540 --> 01:18:04,620 I don't know that I agree. 1723 01:18:04,620 --> 01:18:09,180 So yeah, like all, all dexes aren't doing well right now, right? 1724 01:18:09,180 --> 01:18:15,980 So of course Osmo going down, whereas Adam, like, I think Osmo is still mostly known within 1725 01:18:15,980 --> 01:18:18,620 like cosmos active users, right? 1726 01:18:18,620 --> 01:18:19,860 Whereas Adam is not. 1727 01:18:19,860 --> 01:18:23,620 Adam has like coin bureau that talks about it and like coin telegraph. 1728 01:18:23,620 --> 01:18:25,220 This isn't in that scene. 1729 01:18:25,220 --> 01:18:30,420 So without that marketing branch and without like the central exchanges allowing the trading. 1730 01:18:30,420 --> 01:18:34,940 And so like people understand the narrative of Adam, but they, they won't be able to see 1731 01:18:34,940 --> 01:18:38,300 it for Osmo as much for the people who actually, you know, used it. 1732 01:18:38,300 --> 01:18:41,620 I think it's true that Osmo felt like the actual hub. 1733 01:18:41,620 --> 01:18:48,020 I think that what could have saved Osmo is actually instituting some sort of IBC fees 1734 01:18:48,020 --> 01:18:51,100 earlier or at all as it were. 1735 01:18:51,100 --> 01:18:57,780 And then like, like in my mind, what should be happening is IBC should be getting fees 1736 01:18:57,780 --> 01:19:03,820 and that should go split between like validators and relays themselves. 1737 01:19:03,820 --> 01:19:07,700 The blind share, in my opinion, towards relays because relays are the ones actually paying 1738 01:19:07,700 --> 01:19:08,700 them. 1739 01:19:08,700 --> 01:19:12,420 But like if Osmo is doing, I don't remember the exact number, let's say a hundred thousand 1740 01:19:12,420 --> 01:19:17,220 IBC transactions a day, which I think is reasonable for what they're doing. 1741 01:19:17,220 --> 01:19:23,420 And it was, you know, one cent each, that's still what, $10,000, I guess $1,000 of real 1742 01:19:23,420 --> 01:19:26,740 quote unquote real yield per day. 1743 01:19:26,740 --> 01:19:28,860 Shilty thousand dollars a day. 1744 01:19:28,860 --> 01:19:31,740 I know, like I shot pretty low there. 1745 01:19:31,740 --> 01:19:34,220 I was just doing spitballing numbers, but still. 1746 01:19:34,220 --> 01:19:38,300 Shilts, I was having similar thoughts earlier on in the POTO. 1747 01:19:38,300 --> 01:19:39,300 They were controversial. 1748 01:19:39,300 --> 01:19:40,300 I didn't raise them. 1749 01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:49,900 So what I think would be like a cool proposition would be if they eliminated like trade fees 1750 01:19:49,900 --> 01:19:50,900 altogether. 1751 01:19:50,900 --> 01:19:56,940 Obviously, this, this is like, so that affects LP and stuff like that. 1752 01:19:56,940 --> 01:20:07,580 But if you eliminated trade fees and had no deposit fees, but had withdrawal fees, sort 1753 01:20:07,580 --> 01:20:15,220 of like what, or maybe have, you know, some, some lower make, I found another one, some 1754 01:20:15,220 --> 01:20:22,180 maker and taker fees, but basically like encouraging people to bring token in and discouraging 1755 01:20:22,180 --> 01:20:24,460 them to take it out. 1756 01:20:24,460 --> 01:20:27,780 So having to do something with it was, and get rid of the fucking inflation, man, like 1757 01:20:27,780 --> 01:20:30,140 get, just chop that inflation up. 1758 01:20:30,140 --> 01:20:33,140 Like there's so much pressure on that token from inflation. 1759 01:20:33,140 --> 01:20:34,140 It's not funny. 1760 01:20:34,140 --> 01:20:35,140 I mean, okay. 1761 01:20:35,140 --> 01:20:38,140 So they already kind of have that, right? 1762 01:20:38,140 --> 01:20:41,980 I think that the big reason why, I think if you were to, if I were to have to make an 1763 01:20:41,980 --> 01:20:46,620 argument for the one reason why Osmo's prices tank so much, it's because of their 14 day 1764 01:20:46,620 --> 01:20:47,860 withdrawal, right? 1765 01:20:47,860 --> 01:20:51,740 Like after Tara went down and I saw what, cause I was directly affected by it. 1766 01:20:51,740 --> 01:20:56,460 And I couldn't withdraw for 14 days after UST went under, haven't used Osmo since, like 1767 01:20:56,460 --> 01:20:58,340 that's way too much risk. 1768 01:20:58,340 --> 01:21:00,940 Like if they need to, they need to figure something out better with that. 1769 01:21:00,940 --> 01:21:02,140 Cause that's basically what they're doing, right? 1770 01:21:02,140 --> 01:21:03,740 They're instituting a form of. 1771 01:21:03,740 --> 01:21:05,900 You can, you can deposit so easy. 1772 01:21:05,900 --> 01:21:07,460 You'll get rewards every epoch. 1773 01:21:07,460 --> 01:21:11,820 Oh, but yeah, but if you, if you undo, then yeah, you get four, you, you lose the yield 1774 01:21:11,820 --> 01:21:16,980 for 14 days and it could take 14 days to withdraw. 1775 01:21:16,980 --> 01:21:18,780 It's just not the same as good staking staking. 1776 01:21:18,780 --> 01:21:24,100 I mean, yeah, Osmo has super fluid staking or whatever it's called, um, which, which 1777 01:21:24,100 --> 01:21:27,260 is you, you stake whenever you're doing LPing, right? 1778 01:21:27,260 --> 01:21:32,940 But that's such a big ask compared to, I, I'm not aware of really any other ecosystem 1779 01:21:32,940 --> 01:21:37,140 that has that, where you're kind of required to be in there if you deposit. 1780 01:21:40,140 --> 01:21:44,540 Also in general, like back to your point, like LPing is like relatively high risk and 1781 01:21:44,540 --> 01:21:45,940 the reward has to be there. 1782 01:21:45,940 --> 01:21:50,620 And it's like that much less attractive in the current market. 1783 01:21:50,740 --> 01:21:58,300 So that kind of needs to be, yeah, back to the, when you have inflation, like running 1784 01:21:58,300 --> 01:22:00,460 roughshod over your token value. 1785 01:22:00,460 --> 01:22:09,580 There's just this colossal internal disincentives to LPing within your system even before, even 1786 01:22:09,580 --> 01:22:16,380 if the, the, the period was five days, three days, you're still just like, well, fundamentally, 1787 01:22:16,380 --> 01:22:19,100 if you're not making money, he gives a shit how many days it is. 1788 01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:20,820 Like, what's the point? 1789 01:22:22,060 --> 01:22:25,740 You know, there are other safer ways of, of, of making money. 1790 01:22:26,100 --> 01:22:26,500 Okay. 1791 01:22:26,740 --> 01:22:29,220 Not loads, but there are, they exist. 1792 01:22:29,220 --> 01:22:33,300 Well, the irony of course is that the L paid because of that fucking risk. 1793 01:22:33,660 --> 01:22:34,380 Yeah, exactly. 1794 01:22:34,380 --> 01:22:40,500 The irony of course is that, you know, crypto is supposed to be saving, like making things 1795 01:22:40,500 --> 01:22:41,100 faster, right? 1796 01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:44,100 Like, oh, we want to use crypto instead of banks, because banks will take three to five 1797 01:22:44,100 --> 01:22:45,340 days to actually do a transfer. 1798 01:22:45,580 --> 01:22:50,980 And then it takes 14 days to withdraw your money from, let's just call it a high yield 1799 01:22:50,980 --> 01:22:51,420 savings account. 1800 01:22:51,420 --> 01:22:53,700 It's not obviously, but like the comparison. 1801 01:22:53,940 --> 01:22:55,100 No, absolutely not. 1802 01:22:55,460 --> 01:22:55,940 No. 1803 01:22:55,940 --> 01:23:00,620 Well, but also the, the, the idea that there's this crypto idea, right? 1804 01:23:00,980 --> 01:23:08,340 Which is that nobody, this is so different to the existing financial system. 1805 01:23:08,580 --> 01:23:12,060 You know, it's only comparable to itself. 1806 01:23:12,260 --> 01:23:17,700 Is it fuck everybody who is investing money in things like LPs and they do see 1807 01:23:17,700 --> 01:23:21,580 themselves as investors, you know, albeit with a higher risk thing. 1808 01:23:21,580 --> 01:23:25,620 Of course, they're comparing it to government bonds, to savings accounts, all 1809 01:23:25,620 --> 01:23:30,260 these other things like, like, and so yeah, it's a complete, it is a bit of a 1810 01:23:30,260 --> 01:23:31,020 fantasy, isn't it? 1811 01:23:31,020 --> 01:23:35,420 I think it is back to that lack of under, it's back to the kind of believing 1812 01:23:35,420 --> 01:23:39,300 your own hype and not understanding like where everybody else is at, like the, 1813 01:23:39,340 --> 01:23:41,060 the macro, I suppose, maybe. 1814 01:23:41,700 --> 01:23:42,220 Yeah. 1815 01:23:43,700 --> 01:23:44,300 I don't know. 1816 01:23:44,820 --> 01:23:49,780 I, we, we, I L paid some of, of what I made really, really early on. 1817 01:23:49,780 --> 01:23:52,660 In the cosmos and fuck me. 1818 01:23:53,020 --> 01:23:59,260 I had to write a bunch of code to work out the tax burden on what I ended up 1819 01:23:59,260 --> 01:24:01,740 making, which was like a couple hundred pounds. 1820 01:24:02,260 --> 01:24:06,020 And it took me like three days to write the code and to come up with a number. 1821 01:24:06,340 --> 01:24:08,180 And I was like, I'm never doing this shit again. 1822 01:24:08,180 --> 01:24:09,860 It's just not worth it. 1823 01:24:10,420 --> 01:24:10,860 Yeah. 1824 01:24:10,860 --> 01:24:11,420 Yeah. 1825 01:24:11,420 --> 01:24:12,620 It was the same for me. 1826 01:24:12,620 --> 01:24:17,020 Whenever I put it through, I think coin tracker, it was like, you made like 1827 01:24:17,020 --> 01:24:22,500 $1.2 million and I was like, okay, so I'm down like many thousands of dollars 1828 01:24:22,500 --> 01:24:23,060 this year. 1829 01:24:23,060 --> 01:24:26,740 I'm pretty sure I'm not up $1.2 million just because of the way that the LPs 1830 01:24:26,740 --> 01:24:28,740 would adjust and it didn't know to account for it. 1831 01:24:28,740 --> 01:24:30,260 And I was just like, oh, Jesus God. 1832 01:24:30,260 --> 01:24:31,260 That was exactly it. 1833 01:24:31,260 --> 01:24:36,300 I handed it, I handed like our, our coinly account like, and I just like, 1834 01:24:36,300 --> 01:24:36,820 that sounds right. 1835 01:24:36,820 --> 01:24:37,660 I think that's the one. 1836 01:24:37,660 --> 01:24:38,180 Yeah. 1837 01:24:38,180 --> 01:24:43,180 And then my accounts were like, Hey, so it says, you made $700,000. 1838 01:24:43,180 --> 01:24:48,460 And I was like, no, I think I made about $290. 1839 01:24:48,460 --> 01:24:50,060 And they're like, but it says all these. 1840 01:24:50,060 --> 01:24:54,260 And I'm like, I think those are just all of the transactions that made up all 1841 01:24:54,260 --> 01:24:56,180 the things that gave me fees. 1842 01:24:57,900 --> 01:24:58,460 Yeah. 1843 01:24:58,460 --> 01:25:01,500 We didn't make, it was a complete waste of time. 1844 01:25:01,500 --> 01:25:05,140 But, and then I had to write, yeah, I think to work it out. 1845 01:25:05,140 --> 01:25:07,500 And it was like, yep, it's like $290. 1846 01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:08,540 Cool. 1847 01:25:08,540 --> 01:25:09,100 Yeah. 1848 01:25:09,100 --> 01:25:09,980 Yeah, exactly. 1849 01:25:09,980 --> 01:25:10,620 Massive. 1850 01:25:10,620 --> 01:25:15,620 But, yeah, everybody watching the clock, I can see it. 1851 01:25:15,620 --> 01:25:20,060 So can anyone explain to me what in the fuck is going on with MantaDow? 1852 01:25:20,060 --> 01:25:21,940 Is something going on with it? 1853 01:25:21,940 --> 01:25:27,020 With the, so look, it's very hard to understand. 1854 01:25:27,020 --> 01:25:45,020 There's