My needle cast would be to where to pretend to be afraid.
To pretend to be afraid? We're actually lucky that we've even got any news subjects this week,
she'll see, given that we didn't pay the newsman on time he was upset.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent validated teams.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos brought to you by independent validated
teams. I nearly got away with it, I nearly managed to set it.
We're actually, we're not just the Cosmos anymore, we changed a little bit that we're
independent validated teams, Ditto. Very good impression of Dr. Frey.
Hotel room's not messy enough.
What, your hotel room's not messy enough?
Well, I mean the phrase room is backdrops always quite messy.
Yeah, you need to hang shit around the place, couple of guitar amps.
I've got a load of conference maps all over my bed.
You need some floor lighting. Can you just like ignite a nuclear fuse right next to your face?
Just for the correct effect?
No, the lighting in this hotel room doesn't allow me to do that.
Yeah, so I'm live from Istanbul and Cosmos.
Well, I know nothing that's gone on because I've basically been busy doing some like AI
artwork. So you guys will have to tell me what's happened here. So for the viewers and the listeners,
we're joined today with Bendy and Funky and Chilty and myself for the regular team.
And we have Dr. Frey and Uncle Dad are on their way back to their respective places from the,
were they smart, Colin?
Yeah, they could smart car and over in Barcelona, right?
Yeah, sounds nice. So it's been a week of conferences for everyone who can get to them,
not anyone from over this side of the planet because they're too far away.
So Chilty, what was your excuse?
Well, I had Erdeman go to Istanbul. So if Erdeman's going to go, I don't want to go as well.
That's I mean, and I just got back from my honeymoon. So flying right back like what,
a week after I got, not even a week after I got back, that's unacceptable. Not working with that,
no way. No, you'll just get in trouble for that type of malarkey. I'm going to say this last week,
my partner's been trying to get us to go away on the weekend and I'm like, hold the phone. We just
went elsewhere like for a week. So you're going to have to wait a month. There's no way that I am
putting on weekend shit again for like at least a month.
I've been, man, I've been exhausted. It has been about a week since I've been back.
And I'm having a hard time recovering. I think it's like I just crested 31, right?
Which means I think I no longer recover from jet lag as well. 30, you can still do it. 31,
I think is when that turnover happens and I'm feeling it.
Yeah, definitely. I think I've only really started to experience the jet lag like recently,
like in the last five years or so. But I mean, jet lag is on a different level when you're Australian
because you're on a plane for 17 hours that is going to get you exactly in the place you don't
need to be for a time was. So it's always a big adjustment. Last time I came, when I came back
from March when I was over there, it took me like a week to come back to normal. I was just
shocked to shit. It was terrible.
Yeah. I'm at the point where I'm still waking up at like four or five in the morning each night
and it was only a nine hour changeover. Four or five hours.
Oh man, I'm riding with it. That's a great time to wake up.
Yeah, I was going to say four or five a.m. isn't too bad. So like, you know, I've been using the
time to do work early because, you know, most of my team is either in central Europe or on the
East Coast. So, you know, we are always way far off in time. So this has been good for like,
are able to work together. But also like my wife wakes up then like five hours later and she's
like, wow, like you've already been up like your entire day. And so then like, like 3 p.m. I'm like
winding down and that's that's the tough bit right now. On the weekends, unless we have a plan to
do something, I'm like getting up at four or five a.m. And then the missus gets up at like midday.
I'm like half the fucking day is gone. Like, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But then I'll go to bed at
like eight o'clock and she'll come to bed at like one a.m. Like what are you doing? It's night
time. You can't do anything. Can't work. So yeah, I mean, because life is just working and sleeping,
right? So exactly what I believe it is. So, Bendy has just come back from Cosmo versus
to his hotel room. He was partying at an after party and he was telling us that he was going to
get into his mini bar, but it looks like he's opted for the water. Probably already had a few
Bruce keys. So hopefully he's like half charged for some hot takes while we roll through the news
a little bit later on. Yeah. Whenever we hit your news corner, I'm ready with like under formed
over opinionated views. The news corner does not exist in that form anymore. I've vetoed it.
How was Cosmo versus empty as like the photo showed because a lot of people are talking
about how Cosmo versus was like the keynote. There's only like half the seats full or fewer
and a lot of people are talking about it not seeming very full. Was it was it actually that empty?
It the auditorium was, but like we I've forgotten the exact number. I want to say it's 1300, 1400
people were actually in attendance. But what it is is there's like all sorts of different rooms.
So most people aren't bothering with the keynotes because they're going to workshops. There's like
there was just like a load of food and drink out in the kind of Osmosis networking area.
People are kind of like it's more like yeah, I don't know like it's kind of conference where
people are in about eight, nine different rooms loads of hallways like everywhere you went it was
chocked with people. Did that feel like a feature or a bug do you think? Do you think maybe they
could have scheduled those other like you know other types of things like maybe if they broke
out the keynotes into like a few hours here and a few hours there and then schedule those other
things in between? I think that the kind of venue we were in was challenging because I think the
ballroom that the main talk room was massive as if you were going to do the whole event in there.
And then you also had the loads of these breakout rooms and the breakout rooms were probably the
most successful things like we had so as there was an AES specific room we had Neutron and
slide at the AA DAO at the hub and then we also had Noble in there despite the fact they're not
quite in the AES yet. But like we had like some sort of giga-brain round table things in there
with like 30, 40, 50 people and it's like and then everyone's trying to get into that because
they suddenly hear that like oh, Jihan and Sunny and Spade and whoever are all having this kind of
like really intense thing and you can't put that on stage it's not going to work in that way it's like
this you know more organic thing. Like a controlled thing? Yeah so I think like what you really
probably need is a venue with like breakout rooms that are a little bit closer to the main room and
the main room to be able to be a bit more like to be sized down so that it always feels full
because actually like you probably have four or five, six hundred people in there and it still
feels quite empty because I like so I was moderating a panel by side chat whatever you want to call it
with two of the tokenomics guys today and I was like oh there's not a lot of people here and then
I kind of was like well actually there's like 50 rows of chairs however many people on each row
there's quite a lot of people in this room but they're very spaced out it doesn't look great on
camera I think there's kind of optics thing with that where if you can just do a better seating
plan then it works a bit better but that was kind of yeah that was one of those where we
that tokenomics panel was a fun one because it got moved in terms of its time to accommodate the
stride news which I guess will come to at some point and we yeah we got moved for that and then
CTO couldn't do it which was the original plan because he was having a prep for the stride stuff
and so I had to do it and then I had to fill another 15-20 minutes of time because you know
that was meant to be on in that time slot didn't happen and I was just kind of told could you
just stall for a bit it's like yeah I can chat and then you know as you as you guys know I just
talk a lot so it sounds like that the cameras looked kind of so-called empty was almost a feature
in the sense that what people were doing is they were going and doing things that were more active
and more they were less passive they're going to the keynote that's passive consumption right
but if they're going to the side rooms it sounds like they're they're actively engaging and so
while the appearance was at the throne room if you will was empty what that actually means is
people were off doing things that like would actively better the situation the area the the
conference I think so that's something I take my sense my sense of things as someone in one of
those rules for most of the time because it was like it was pretty consistently busy a lot of
people came up to me to kind of like just talk to me about what they're building how they can get
money from me which you know is inevitable because I'm like one of the you know 10 people in the
conference with actual cash but you know it was kind of cool because actually you had like it's
much better to be doing that kind of whether it's yorping or shilling depending on which way you
want to go you up up she'll down but it's better it's better that like the those people are doing
that then they're just sitting there listening to a keynote right so I think that kind of what's
happening and certainly my experience from having worked in a kind of conference in venue is that
this has reached a period of maturity where the majority of work needs to be done at the bar or
in the or you know over coffee and that the actual program of events is almost meaningless
but really what people want to do is engage with individuals they want to have the conversations
they want to have they want to do the workshops they want to do the hackathons they want to do all
of that and then not very interested in being lectured to for 20 minutes half an hour were you
at the previous uh cosmoverse or no no this is my first ever critco event this is my first time
meeting people in real life ah that's cool awesome it is cool yeah i had a great time like i like um
yeah and it's kind of it's kind of fun because um you know i hadn't met any of my colleagues from
the doubt in real life so that was kind of awesome um we all went for dinners night and you know that
was really nice it was really nice to have time with people and like actually kind of you know
see how tall some people are right like but um but also like yeah i've worked really closely with
uh some of the people involved in neutron uh some of the guys on stride and then we're in a room
together and we're actually like able to just you know shoot the shit and uh kind of get a real
sense of who people are and you know like yeah i mean it did nothing for my imposter syndrome
where i've suddenly i'm like oh shit i'm at a thing where oh so yeah my my big imposter syndrome
moment was um because the so the hub's the lead sponsor um beat through us and uh so there's the
kind of like speakers and sponsors dinner on the first night which uh and they were like oh
could someone from the dallas speak and you said was like oh bendy would do it he's good at talking
and i was like i've now got to do like a three minute chat to like every single significant
person in this ecosystem uh and like what the what do i who like i'm like i'm just you know
community member pleb uh what do i what do i say so that was quite fun is this the drop chains moment
yeah well i saw i saw a raw mug break you over the coals for it well i i mean like i i i i i
put the video i was like imagine if i could say the word blockchain but yeah um my opening line
in that was uh ladies and gentlemen we're welcome to the annual gathering of the cartel um perfect i
was really interested to see uh what percentage of cosmos had a sense of humor how many people did
because i imagine like that would be very divisive i would say 10 had a sense of humor
okay yeah okay so yeah um but like by the end it was fine it was only three minutes it's fine
um you know if a a down now doesn't get a second mandate it's basically because of me i think
all these guys would be like don't talk about the cartel
but that was quite fun but yeah like it did not like i was just like oh shit like i'm meant to
present pretend that i'm like significant in fact all it is is that i'm english and therefore you
know the one that's put up to speak so okay so you just say this is your
yeah you sound you're english therefore you sound so smart um so what what did you do previously
so if you hadn't been to conference before how long have you been in the cosmos ecosystem
because obviously you've been you know you've been in chats we've seen you for the longest time
but it surprises me since cosmos has events in europe fairly frequently probably two or three
a year right so i'm curious what why wasn't my job before uh yeah that's good okay so was a
dive the first thing you do that did that brought you into like as a uh really i didn't know that
yeah so so my background is um i got into crypto like so yeah like early like right like january
21 right uh and then sort of was on coinbase and was like oh just look at some of these other
things that aren't bitcoin because you know maybe bitcoin maybe there's other value elsewhere right
you know other things are going to be a bit more risk but then i go up and i was kind of just
reading like their little synopsis and i was like oh this cosmos thing is like kind of interesting
because it talks about the fact that not one chain specifically is going to win and i was like well
that makes sense to me like you know why in the history of like everything in the world nothing
has ever had just like one winner you know in a kind of form of things getting advanced right
there's always been like multiples and i was like okay this makes sense so i brought some atom and then
i saw wolf um tweeting about uh make sure you get it off centralized exchanges put it in a thing
nudge nudge wink wink right self custody and i was like oh i better do this because there's
some sort of thing and people are talking about the word airdrop is being thrown around
and so i got some june hoa and i got some osmosis because of doing that and i was kind of like oh
and i like and i got progressively more interested in stuff and just like watch this show follow
people on twitter that was the most air drop show that was a mistake yeah that was most
airdrop i'll say was was a really great airdrop i remember i had i want to say like like 10
atom staked and i am getting like 800 with the osmosis and that made me so excited to join the
ecosystem um now i was in it before but go ahead no no all i was gonna say is like yeah i got over
a thousand dollars the less than like i must have maybe i had a hundred in there like i don't
i can't do the quadratic the quadratic curve thing was a good idea um with that yeah but yeah and
then all that happened after that is that i continued to do kind of what i do in the chat on the show
where i just talked at people and then eventually they recognize me allow me to talk at you yes
well you're in public form i'm just gonna shout at you until you acknowledge my existence um
and then one one day i got really pissed off with something in cosmos and uh dm zaki and just like
i'm really pissed off about this is there any like my backgrounds in marketing and comms is there
anything i can do to help and he was like oh weirdly i was just setting up a telegram group
let me drop you into that and i was suddenly in this weird telegram group with like again a lot of
serious players and it kind of was like oh and then like i did you know i tried to be helpful
and what then came out of that eventually was when usuf was setting up the accelerator he was like
i need a marketing comms person uh do you want to talk and i could do it on top of my day job
because it's kind of part time role and i was like oh this is brilliant because now all the time that
i already spend doing crypto stuff i actually get some money for and monetize your knowledge yeah
like i you know i've i've i've got i've been working in marketing and comms for like 16 17 years
i know you know i know my stuff to an extent as much as anyone does it's a it's a great story
bennie it's very similar to mine like it's it's it's wonderful how on web3 you can jump in and if
you just are a curious person you ask lots of questions you want to be helpful you provide
value to others like somebody's going to offer you a job and it's only a matter of time so that's
really cool hearing your backstory very similar to mine i think if you have like some personal
motivation and just get involved there's a place for you somewhere like yeah and it's it's not all
developers like there's you know bennie's marketing and there's any number of different jobs for
different kinds of industries in this industry it's just a matter of being active hunting people
down expressing your point of view you know getting in there i mean she'll see and you're
validated too funky and i probably all you know you get nowhere in this industry if you don't ask
the question and if you if you're not persistent and looking for the right connections and if you
just and it's a it's definitely i think one of the one of the things in the validator space and
sorry bendy i know you're not a validator is that i think some operators think that you know they
this is a a mountain to conquer rather than like a better together thing so you know i know shilty
and i um subscribe to the you know teamwork makes the dream work type situation we um you know there's
a group of us that help each other out um in the in the stack and make sure that um you know we're
all performing um and sometimes that's like you know giving other other people a reality check and
saying hey look you're fucking up over here maybe have a look at that um yeah or even some encouragement
oh you're doing a great job over there um how can we sort of do better like you and uh you know that
that type of environment rather than like adding the cold by yourself behind the gates
trying to just conquer everything by yourself i feel like i've had this conversation multiple
times this week because um trying to work out why i can say i'm what i can't without kind of just
being like saying that certain people are ourselves uh but basically um a lot of the hot topic here
was what is the aec to do with like is it just the change that's uh on replicated security
or is it anything that interacts with atom because obviously um uh yeah there's the
osmosis one amount of liquidity uh but i had a conversation with um dean uh from agaric where he
sort of saying you know ist is obviously in the act of the economic zone because it has
atom as a you know thing that you can class from his ist with and like and he was getting more and
more aggrieved about this i think because i think that he felt that the resistance to
acknowledging that was people kind of wanting to be behind the gates um and he was like you know
where where's the reciprocal nature and where's the cooperation and kind of that's a really
interesting take though that's not one that i've really heard of the one i've i've always heard is
you know you're in the atom economic zone if you are like ics but it makes sense that if you are
directly relating like like stride pre ics like under under that definition you could argue was
part of the atom economic zone and that also wouldn't be wrong but anyway continue so i
so i've got a series of slightly uh wobbly thoughts that are definitely not helped by the beers but
uh the the kind of the main thing with me was like my thought around this was just like it
the reality is is that atom will do better if ist gets some adoption and ist you know will
do better if atom does well like that there's a you know the the the alignment is there and if
everyone just spends their time shouting each other and sort of whether that's on the ist side
feeling like they're being neglected and therefore being annoyed about that or on the atom side of
like putting up walls that's not actually going to help anyone and this you know if everyone gets
defensive or or aggressive either way actually uh then it kind of doesn't help so what i was saying
is look i think there's the reality is is that the chains that i consider to be in the atom
economic zone are the ones that have some sort of social consensus that says they are and that
means that they've passed a vote on governance so that at the moment is around replicated security
but if that was around protocol and liquidity or um some sort of loan or some sort of other
uh uh financially structured deal where you do a token swap you do something else i would argue
that that is indicated that you're in the easy at the moment we're just so early in it that it has
a narrow meaning and if we are rigid with that i think we just lose a lot of opportunity for
everyone and that kind of was one of the things i was saying in my three minutes on stage at the
very beginning of the conference where i was saying like one of the things people talk about at
Cosmosverse is the good vibes but then like they just they just go away after like a month
after the honeymoon period so can we keep them going for like two months instead and that would
be like twice as twice as much value out of Cosmosverse as we currently get so further to the um
you know the AEZ stuff i i think that if people understand that the AEZ is not an organization
that you get inducted into it's just a term that people use to describe you know the the closely
related entities that are working in the same direction as Adam then you know it becomes more
evident then that you don't necessarily need to be in the ICS to be part of the AEZ you just need
to be contributing to that ecosystem in a way or in in partnership in a way with that community
to better both of your protocols and then you then you're like de facto part of the AEZ i mean it's
not like a organization where you have to like gain membership or anything no it's like the
AEZ is more of a feeling than a contract it's a vibe man it's a vibe it's those good vibes yep
but it's like but i what i would say is that i really distinguish between um say so IST or USK
where there's just some use for atom that people can choose to do or not do that is completely
different from if the atom uh governance had a vote where it went okay we're going to give
we're going to use a million atom to do this with them and they're going to do this with it and here's
a kind of agreement because that is saying like it's not just because otherwise it's like the
null zone and all this schultz zone where you've just chosen to do something as a user with your
tokens with someone who gave you the option to do it so when that they've been chats there about
like osmosis is obviously in the AEZ because it's the thing that's done all this stuff with atom
liquidity it's like no that's all osmosis and osmosis chose to do that and osmo and people
chose to do it on osmosis and that's fine like that i'm not dismissing what they've done they're
brilliant protocol they are like they have been the biggest thing for IBC totally but does that
make them part of the AEZ no it doesn't but if their proposal that's currently on the forum for like
you know a bajillion uh atom for protocol and liquidity uh were to pass then i would say yeah
i would for me that's what i would say is like enough of a signal that i would include them in
an AEZ thing if i was organizing it as the marketer i think the other interesting thing about the
AEZ is simply creating the term has created so much demand for having it people are like i want to
be in because you've closed the club and like nine months ago no one wanted to touch out on
with a shitty stick that's a really interesting point yeah like now that people now that it's
become a thing people want to be part of the thing i mean in effect the and the imagining of it was
Adam 2.0 but i'm 2.0 was not nearly as catchy as the AEZ right like it didn't have a good enough
marketer apparently it's it's like they uh took the non-shitty bits of the uh Adam 2.0 and called
it something else yeah i mean imagine it's imagine it's a good brain you have to be to do that let
me ask you guys this what does this mean like with with the AEZ and obviously more chains starting to
wanting like to like signal for ICS and wanting to make that transition what does this mean for
mesh security because i think it's funny that like you know sonny had his little graphic with like
osmosis being part of this AEZ but he was also the one kind of pitching mesh security at like the
shared security summit back in Denver like is is mesh security starting to fall to the wayside and
now more just pushing toward like the ICS idea i i think that mesh security is still definitely
coming um okay the more so uh quite a topic so with the way we've currently seen ICS roll out
you're gonna see us vote no on most chains that join in so for example composable is going to try
and become ICS here soon and i guarantee you are voting no and the reason for that is there's so much
reliance on individual team output on the performance of that addition and composable is
wild land stable just wild land stable and it's not easy to keep track of what's happening with it
it's not easy to like interact with in general um there's there's a variety of reasons for that
but what that leads to is if they tried to become an ICS chain um that burden then falls on every
single validator and that shouldn't happen with mesh security it's opt in and that's that i think
is is the really big difference okay um yeah so uh we as a adow um have confunded some of the mesh
mesh stuff because it's definitely part of the future picture um i think the other thing that's
likely being slept on because um it's not really made a lot of progress is the opt in replicated
security um as far as i know there have been some particular issues about how uh you solve
the security problems of if only a certain number of people opt in how is that chain actually secure
how does it reach consensus but i believe uh that one of the teams working on the tokenomics
research for us um proposed the solution of around that to johan who is now going to kind of
investigate it further but thinks there's the responsibility of solving that and that's kind
of interesting because then you kind of you could do mesh and you could connect with loads of people
but if you just want to get security from the hub and you can be convincing to particular validators
then you can still get that security and that means that someone like lavender five don't have to
secure composable if they think that that risk doesn't suit them but composable could still get
hub security uh from people that are willing to take that choice and then becomes a market where
for me as a delegator i can look at who are these chain supporting and do i want to be in
receipt of those staking rewards and fees etc and i think that's kind of interesting because i think
at the moment there's not a lot of ways to distinguish validators unless you're really deep
in the game um so i think icsv2 is i i was i think the last time i spoke on here or maybe
the time before that i was like i think this is pointless i've slightly been talked around into
thinking it has has purpose but ultimately i think that mesh is probably going to be the future for a
loss of cosmos and i think that item will be the primary beneficiary of mesh because it is the thing
that most people want to connect to just purely because of this market um so yeah really like i
think that's brilliant i also think that atom and because of stride uh will become super desirable
like it will get we'll have skin in the game with a lot of tokens even if they're not meshing to it
because of the way that liquid staking tokens will you know are so pervasive at the moment
so i think that's kind of interesting too can you talk a little bit about the stride and atom
um yeah i was curious image like is it i haven't looked too much at the proposal and i haven't seen
to me talks about it i've just kind of like seen second hand people's thoughts is their idea to
completely take down the chain and just push all of that to atom or is the idea to continue doing
stride as a chain but move over to only using atom and basically burn all stride in favor of
just using atom so i missed some of the talk so and i haven't read the proposal so i will be talking
from a complete picture of ignorance other than a bit of a chat that i had with someone
yesterday uh was because i needed to talk like when they wanted to take our slot i was like well
you need to tell me why so uh which then give me like 24 hours where i was like i know the biggest
news in the ecosystem and i literally can't tell anyone because they will know it's me
so as i understand it it's to move to a tokenless chain which i think is better personally than
moving it on to uh the hub uh you be okay so you mean because wow this is a lot to unpack
like how would that work for people that are currently staking to governors right um you get
you get more atom well whatever price that deal got structured you would your your your
stride would become atoms interesting okay i think there's a lot that i i haven't got into
the detail of it um uh i know that like riley and adin are like just like this is very early
in conversation and we want to get as much feedback as possible and i think one of the
problems with that is i think it's completely genuine knowing those guys but i also think
that the community wants to be told something concrete so that they have something to work
with and i think navigating this kind of like merger and acquisition stuff in a on-chain governed
world is as far as i know breaking new ground and i think that makes it really hard to do it well
and i've got a lot of sympathy and patience for everyone involved in it because i think that it's
whatever you do people are going to be finding it difficult and i think that like how you negotiate
a price for this kind of stuff is difficult um the the yeah i like i don't have a strong
opinion yet other than i really really really love stride i think it's a phenomenal team that
have done a great job they've had some of the best product market in the ecosystem i think they're
one of the strongest teams best shippers and you know my asset bag is bigger than my stride bag so
maybe an acquisition is good from my point of view because i get more exposure but so here's
what i'll add to that stride is one of the few tokens that i've um really bought into because
of basically what you said it's a really fantastic team such an amazing product market
fits secret another one but there's so much secret difficulty i'm not gonna get into that
well i'll continue stride uh i think that with stride moving to ics they devalued their stride
token and i think that quote-unquote being bought out by adam and almost any vision it turns into
would be a good thing i probably agree and i probably agree it's good on both sides i think
the key thing that has to happen is that at the moment uh stride's biggest kind of customers
are atom stakeholders and i don't see how that really works once you are owned by active as it were
i think that there's some sort of weird circle stake thing going on uh that's even weird and then
it is at the moment uh so i'm not quite sure how that works but i think that in reality
i think there's one two significant chain launches coming up where i believe that stride
are going to be involved very early i think there's going to be huge amounts of these tokens
going to be liquid staked and i think that that's going to be super bullish for people that hold
stride or stride is atom at that point i think there's genuine revenue to be made and revenue
is like nothing makes revenue at the moment i guess my question right now would be so if they were
bought out by adam would it then be that all of the stride tokens would then go straight to the
validators and stakers like so there wouldn't be stride stakers anymore like governors i'm sure
would go away because i don't think it would make too much sense for them not to go away
does that mean that all atom holders would then effectively become i imagine stride is like an
etf right you buy stride you stake stride and you get a bunch of other tokens so it's like it's
an effect on etf so would that then make it as each atom staker and even larger etf holder in a sense
if so i mean that just that's awesome that would be super cool so so at the moment i think it's 15%
of stride's revenue goes to atom stakers i think i think it's that it might be 20 but i think it's
15 and i think then what would happen is that 100% of revenue would go to atom stakers now i'm not
super keen on that in that i think that some of the revenue should actually go directly to the team
because i think that creates incentivization for the team to continue working i thought it was
really dumb when the on stride when we voted to give 100% of revenue to stride stakers i thought
that was stupid i thought no they like how do you grow your treasury how do you continue to fund
future development uh i like i understand why stakers should be paid i'm not saying that but
i also think like you could have taken you know 95% and still left the team you know the treasury
growing and the foundation getting some incomes that you continue to fund it i think the this is
a wider issue within the atom and therefore for stride and to an extent neutron uh is how do you
pay developers and uh known from binary is working on some stuff as part of our type of economic stuff
where you basically have a kind of allocated budget across the year and it's kind of topped up
block by block and you kind of as as governance you decide where you want to allocate that to
and that makes a lot of sense from my point of view but i think that the revenue models are kind
of really interesting around that and again i think that uh as just a staker you need to take
a kind of longer term vision because there is no point you extracting all the liquidity so that
you can't fund teams for long term because the main value added that the stride has for atom
is that phenomenal team now i'm barely certain that there will be people who will say well devs
make loads of money at fine but they are also the future of that protocol so what you do and
if you can't get the alignment of interest right then what we're actually going to do is buy stride
these guys become multimillionaires and they walk away like that that's not great i guess it's a
mic drop moment right there do you do you think that's part of the um motivation for that uh
proposal is you know to monetize their holdings quickly to something that's pretty stable or
stable i mean they still have a huge amount of stride right like most of the delegations right
now are from the stride treasury so they're still getting a huge amount of income i so i
can't imagine it's it's so one-sided as they are looking to get liquidity quickly as what
happened a couple weeks ago so the thing with like the thing with the app chains seems to be
seems to be that you know they have their day for a while and then it is to date like pretty uh
like most of the chain and this is partly a function of the uh the bear market but you know
after after their day is passed the the value of that token goes down a lot because at the end
of the day like how much value is there in in most app chains if you know they got a lot of tokens
they got a platforms that generate not much revenue so like at the end of the day what's that worth
and in terms of stride well i i guess it's it's value to its holders is more or less based on the
uh tokens of which they get revenue from right um in terms of like that little that little bit from
the top when they do the um you know when they they take the the inflation from all the chains
that they're running on and then they take their little bit of cream off the top and then distribute
that to um the holders of the token and that's basically the revenue model but like how will
that play out in the long term like for a chain that has i think i've saw somewhere that at the
moment they've got a revenue of maybe 700 grand i think that was in some of the um comments on
that Commonwealth Schultz so like you know that's trading at 10 times the the revenue at the moment
that's probably not too unreasonable if that's coming out to the um stakers but you know given
the long-term trends of most other app chains maybe i'm not saying it it's a cash grab but maybe it's a
way to like solidify that value into something a little bit more stable that makes sense yeah sure
i mean of all things in the cosmos adam has proven itself to be the most stable um the next best
thing is probably osmosis and it's down 35 times from its all-time high whereas adam is down four
maybe the reality is at go ahead about five five okay five um the reality is adam is
adam is similar to like a lot of the other bigger l ones you know those top those top 50 l ones are
like traded well actually the top 50 is not even all l ones but like the l ones within that top 50
are all traded as if they are like more or less you know the cream of the l ones right which
arguably most of them probably are um and i think that just i think they're traded like on on um
you know on the basis of like signals and stuff rather than their actual worth as a as a chain
if if that makes sense i think in my mind they're they're more they hold their value better because
people are like signal trading from charts and stuff like that rather than saying well what's the
revenue of this thing and what's the what's the um you know long-term value proposition for this
they're like oh okay well we're getting down to like the 30 for again it's over five days of
and it's in the in the green it's a buy line or it's gonna hit its defense whatever those traders
do so i feel like a lot of that um resistance is from traders trading charts not like people's
belief in those chains um as a contrary view to probably what other people might think
i think the reason that after this has not gone down to nothing else is because of Ben you're
it's really hard to hear you right now sorry yes i can bring it really close to my face i've had to
kind of like put my phone in place okay um can you hear me okay it's still a bit you might have had
your hand like over your microphone or something is that still the case yeah can you hear me all right
yeah that's better for sure i can't believe you don't take a tripod for your to conferences for
you for like um you know ad hoc fucking podcast the hotel stuff i think it was the only fans
fill me your feet baby oh you have one i didn't realize you had no new fans
thank you um so so that that was do we do we want to keep uh on this topic or do you want to
change it up into some some news can i tell you one typically cosmos funny story
sure yes just to derail things for a little bit so we had a um round table in the az room and uh it
was meant to be kind of known talking about some of the work the binary are doing around
tokenomics and it sort of was but also sonny came in there to uh talk smack about what the az is uh
jihan uh was very robustly defending it in relation to ics uh spade was in there the duality guys were
in there like loads of giga brains and at the end of the session this uh like completely random bloke
put his hand up and was like can i just give an outsider's perspective um i run this company uh
we're valued at like 11 billion dollars i own about 0.2 percent of all atom and here's what i think
i'm just some thoughts right and literally everyone kind of goes oh okay interesting and nobody not
one person at the end of this thing thought i'll just follow him out the room and have a chat with him
i'll just like this guy is literally worth billions of dollars and atom is like the community that
that everyone in that room is more concerned with having a row than like getting the giga whale
jeez sorry he can't taste that do you have the room what atom or if you i would have slapped
erdeman if he didn't go say hi them if he was in there like go get him get some staking man yeah
absolutely yeah i mean like he yeah so that he owns not not 0.2 percent of all atom of adam
now like but he also has an 11 billion dollar company okay yeah that's an instant go talk to the man
yeah no doubt here he would have been like he would have been walking out with me like holding
under his coat but no yeah like it's just i was like this is crazy this is so crazy like um i did
eventually i did see some people like uh he ended up at the end of that i was at and like yeah people
were trying to tap him up uh but you know he like when i introduced myself to him he was like i was
like oh i'm benny from the atom mix other rate of you know grant program and he was like oh how
much money can you give me i was like well i kind of wanted you to give me some really uh
but um but i just like i just thought it typified cosmos i just thought it typified cosmos where
it's more about the row than the money yeah i tend to like agree with that sentiment 100
so anyway that i think i think that sums up everything from cosmoverse and we can move on
to something else okay well all right shilty and i had the only ones with access to the news so you
don't get the preview um hot i've got the spreadsheet i can put yeah yeah i got it sent it i got i've
still got access to it rama doesn't let me though he complains i'm messing up with his business
model when i delete his comments so well i mean the hot news for this week is uh the news researcher
strike so um rama has put an on-chain transaction to our dow that says if you don't pay me within 24 hours
we were on strike so really that's when you did that did actually says that i just voted yes oh
my the memo on this transaction says you have 24 hours to pay your new release to pay your new
researchers or we go on strike now i think i don't know how rama became multiple people can you form
a union as a single person because it sounds like that's what's going on here he has formed the
researchers union of cosmos single-handedly and probably the only person who cares about the
outcome so this was made on the second of this month which is october now that i'm just looking
um at 1851 i'm assuming that's my time zone so three days later still no pays
shit i'm surprised he didn't delete the news wait hold on a second where is this at i can't see it
on dow dow uh look at the while it's in the spreadsheet there's a link oh yeah yeah but it
was sent to the dow dow address i don't know how we do research like a memo field yeah he sent us a
ransom email in the memo field i think anyone reads their memo fields like you know like when
the fuck is someone going to implement messaging in the wallets well leap wallet on has hey leap
wallet has i believe leap wallet yeah yeah i think this is leap wallet i mean i like that
i like their interface i've never used the wallet it's it's a great wallet is it popular should i
be changing from uh keppelow yeah keppel is dead we have to leap san j even his team are incredible
and leap is definitely the future oh the leap wallet team really kills it like they're really
responsive to feedback they are very in tune with like what people want it it's a great team
really enjoyable to work with but i think they haven't integrated and the hub is buying them out
pretty soon i believe is that true i know that i'm just talking shit what is the fate then of
that other snaps who's the snap mystic labs that's still going that's going strong they're doing
all right but it's like but they're trying to achieve different things these guys right so
um mystic labs is sort of the canonical metamask net from metamask's point of view
whether that means that they will achieve you know market share or whether people do leap i
don't know wow i mean leaps first to market right they all went at the same time oh so um
are the other ones live the yeah yeah yeah yeah so i think it was go ahead and they're gone well i
think that metamask like they whitelisted or like had a prep period and then everything was released
at once right so like they all got ready and then they were all the floodgates were open
effectively yeah leap leap uh while it's slightly front run the kind of end of the like the moment
you could go in terms of their announcement and they got a lot of traction at that um i will say
secret had it going over a year ago like they had a metamask working over a year ago i think what's
what was interesting what's interesting certainly with the mystic labs one it's the one i know the
most about is the fact that it is universal so that you whereas they you know they were like oh
yeah there are other ones that are just on one chain but then you kind of it's what's the use of that
like yeah it's cool if you if your chain has a very specific connection with like ethereum
and you know that that's cool but if you're trying to bring some eth into cosmos and you don't want
people to change metamask you want them to go and buy a bad kid then it needs to be one snap for
everything makes sense um so moving oh actually this is uh this is conference related so the nomic
founder got uh sim swapped and doxxed any uh can you from a man on the ground what so that was well
i mean that had nothing really to do with the conference was it was just he got sim swapped
which is yeah but it was a relief to see here in security that like sim passcode it was great to see
him like live and while at the cos at the event though because i genuinely had this moment where
i was like has he just been kidnapped you just don't know right like at the point that all of his
id and stuff was just put out it's quite scary wow that's uh and then and then a particular validator
decided to uh create take the that tweet and put it in a github reprocess so that it could stay there
forever would this be a validator that we all know because it kind of sounds like such a
fucking jake of thing to do well i mean the man's also currently d dosing the uh the test net of
asma believe oh that's what's happening right now i believe that's him yeah because he's trying to
prove his point right i mean it's testing i think i suppose technically but whatever so
so there's there's jake of news in the news is uh jake of goes on a roundabout max block size bug
puts up a proposal to fix it by increasing hub blocks by five times the current block size
sticks to his guns by saying that one meg blocks is better than 200 kilobyte blocks
even after the advisory from amulet in binary builders yeah like oh there's so much i can't say
because it's like reaching other no because it's other people's opinions and i can i'll tell you
my opinion my opinion is that this is fucking ludicrous right but it's their entire business model
yeah i mean but imagine winning this model as it turns out imagine being a
it's better yeah doing better than being holistically wholesome doing better than most
people right now i i just i don't know how long it lasts i feel like i feel like i mean i just
cannot imagine a world in which that icf delegation stays for example can you speak to the icf
president thing that happened so what exactly happened there so jake of wanted to be like the
icf president right like we're going for council like well okay yeah that's why i need to explain
because i say yeah i mean i'm sure jake would love to be the president of the icf but uh so
brian crane is now the president of the icf he used to be one of the vice presidents i think
and ethan is no longer the president but they have also decided to kind of create or expand
this council and they've kind of publicly kind of opened for recruitment with that and there are
a number of candidates ranging from the sort of sublime to the ridiculous uh you know uh
rama is has put his hat in the ring um jake has put his hat in the ring jake one has put his
hat in the ring jake quattens perhaps has been thrown back out of the ring uh i'm not quite so
sure about the other two um but like so there's this range of people that kind of think that they
they're going to save save the interchange um you know and and and i'm not entirely sure what that
group of people do uh within the icf but then i'm yeah i'm not entirely sure what anyone does at the
icf other than rob who is a f***ing legend and does the kind of twitter stuff he's great um but
there's a lot of other people i don't know what they do there i did meet a very nice person who's
like the new product manager for ibc she seemed really nice don't really know what that means
i shouldn't have come on this part after having so many drinks but you're getting a lot of
if i don't work in cosmos after anymore like then this is this i will know why the cartel have got
me well now you can blame this instead of your three minute speech right i can 100 guarantee you
that the cartel does not watch this nor does like any degrees of friends who know the cartel watch this
so you probably i mean i'm the closest right yeah i mean unless unless you're gonna go and send them
clips you're probably safe technically i'm now cto's boss so i think that definitely makes me like
the head of the mafia that's scary that's uh it's an interesting take on a uh on a grant yeah well
it's you know it basically is me that decides whether we continue paying him each month right
yeah can you pay us like we do stuff we talk occasionally yeah sure i like genuinely i i
mean i don't like yeah i think like i have personally i've had tremendous value out of this
podcast uh oh i i met like seven other people who watch it i met i met one i met the other
person from chat i met um uh less harm really um it doesn't look like that it really confused me
oh that's a shame what did you say his name was less on yeah do less harm i think do
do less harm yeah i'm like no i met yeah no call us harm make this thing yeah yeah
cause no meditations yeah he's super nice he's he's awesome um yeah yeah so we tried
to church for stickers um i don't know what i'll do with the stickers but i was delighted to give him
a shirt uh but he he's yeah and um yeah uh he and i may meet in future for a beer which is very exciting
oh he's local to you well local enough that's very yeah okay yeah local enough that we could
consider meeting for a beer if we plan it we might even persuade um dr fray to join us for a beer
that would be cool so here's what i'll say about dr fray speaking of people like meeting people in
person i expected him to be way shorter than he is he's like he's like a hundred yeah he's like a
goliath i might in my head he's six two he might be six two he might be i think he is like six two
yeah maybe even a little bit tall so like he he sent us a like it was a self mile wasn't a selfie
it was like a photo of him like holding the bean out in like the bush somewhere and he made the trees
look small so yeah yeah but i think giant standing next to this pond that i think was a lake
yeah you just expect him to like carrying a club dragging a club behind him as well for sure
so just a kid by the scruff of the neck dragon and fucking club yeah exactly right so i think once
we've got once we've kind of it'd be nice if we can try and get you know maybe there could be like
a game of notes christmas party where we all kind of just run like meet our respective uh
like like host or people from the chat that are near us and we kind of get together and then try
and do one where we're all drunk that'd be kind of fun so that sounds like me and bandy at the pub
and then me causeless harm dr fray that would work i'd have no idea if you have a local listener
i mean not super local i would probably just head over to pittsburgh and dr uncle dad and i would
have a beer um i wonder where neils and uh story two uh they said probably the state so i guess
do we yeah we're sorry from so so we could meet me for a beer i'm literally taking a um
it's some neutron stuff because he works for neutron so i'm literally taking him some neutron
stuff back from the conference to give to him so i'm already an interesting story he works for
neutron is that is that a similar story to yours just being active in the community and then yeah
yeah yeah so i told his story on a on a space one day and he basically the same thing like was
just super active in the community and then like i think spade reached out to him and and asked if
he would get involved i heard his story on one of like the neutron uh x spaces or twitter spaces
whatever probably some months ago very similar yeah just a community member highly involved
pretty sure my first time i saw soy and this might be wrong because this is a lot of people
um i'm pretty sure they were just shit talking my validator on twitter that sounds like soy
which i say affectionately my first interaction with soy was all he was just shitting on polka
dot and he's like all these guys these polka dot maxis going on about the nakamoto coefficient like
and i was like and i just started like answering him i'm like i'm not the technical guy who can
tell you these things but i was just like writing back and we kind of had a little tiff and then
like i got i talked to him on a space and now like i feel like we're buddies but yeah he was uh i love
soy he's he's he's always got a great take every time i talk to him on a space it happens like
that a lot people are like you know aggressively fucking forcing their opinion in some fashion and
then like you know some the person who's like you know the target of that sometimes you know
engages with them you know on a more level thing like the ams or something and say hey man like
you know this is this this is the deal and then i think a lot of friendships are born out of that
initial like um aggression i know that a lot of mine are um i know that like when i and you know
i've done this at the pub as well and sometimes people just don't like you and they you know
don't like to cut of your jib for some reason and then and then if you just like i don't know i've
i've i've spent like you know you clearly don't like me like why it is the jib they're like no your
jib is just not pleasant your jib is fucking weird very strange i mean it's on one occasion
this dude i was talking to and he so he he worked with my partner and and he just did not
fucking like me and i was like well why don't you like me it's like i don't know and i'm like well
can't really work for you now for a reason yeah and then we like uh you know we talk some more and
then we sort of left on reasonable terms i guess so that was nice but um a good friend of mine the
first time i met him i thought he was a complete asshole because he was being an asshole just
turns out he was a bit drunk a bit more drunk than i was and actually when he like went like if you're
the same amount of drunk or sober like it's fine but you know he was just being a bit of a dick
that night by like i was just like i you know when like you meet someone through some friends i'm
just like i don't get why your friends with this guy he's a dickhead and then it is like and then
it turned out that actually he's really sad yeah so my best friend is actually the same story uh in
college he and i like actively conflicted in almost every single class for the first two or three
years of college and then seen your real your world around and we're like hey do you want to play games
yeah all right and we've basically either lived together or seen each other on a regular basis
since like he lives a five minute drive from me it's funny how that works out yeah yeah and you get
this you get the same thing with romantic stuff as well right whereas sometimes it's just yeah
some form of tension there so speaking of tension uh and i don't know how to say this but
this word i'm pretty sure it's long yeah i'm pretty sure it's chango right chango goes after jack z
in or jack xanpaulin in a video with all his collaborations in calling him a weed which
has embedded his roots into the ecosystem and he needs to be pulled i that just makes me so angry
like say what you all about jack and strangelove the one thing they're not is like a weed and
the ecosystem they have done so much good and they're like they're like the one team that i've seen
actively trying to push you know effective things forward in the ecosystem it's just i
it's just i i don't know why jack's been like has received a decent amount of hate over the last
couple months it just it really bugs me so i feel like yeah over the years like jack has been a net
positive he's like a he's a nice figure for the ecosystem as well like he's well spoken and he's
polite and um he seems to you know try to uh at least in a public forum like try to take on criticism
and then provide like you know answers to that responses to that um other than that i don't
really know the dude too much i don't know a lot of his like specific contributions i know that he
gives a lot of contribution to i b c how much of that's like paid for i don't know um but i mean
he seems to be a net positive contributor i haven't seen the video um so i don't i can't really
comment on what's in it don't know if anyone else has i haven't seen the video either but
i'm more of just speaking about on twitter in general like i've seen a lot of conflict
and vitriol pointed towards jack not so much strange love just specifically jack and it just
i have no place to like be his defender or whatever i'm just like peon number seven
whereas jack is like a beacon in the ecosystem so like what am i really doing nothing sometimes
people just like to shit on success to make themselves feel better like but it's there's more
yeah i don't know but i you know if this was you know if you can infer that maybe this video was
supported by you know maybe another contributor the ecosystem there's a bit of a hit piece or
something like that then maybe you can see where that's coming from i guess um but you know you
don't believe everything you watch on twitter know that a lot of people who say shit on twitter
are paid to say shit on twitter because they've got a little number under their name so
yeah because they have a number under their name what you know followers man followers
followers okay got it i'm picking up what you're putting down yeah um i mean page
shills are everywhere these day and age and you have to like really you know consider what you're
taking to be gospel when you're when you're looking at things on the internet um that news story has
been so hard for me because i've literally had it all my time and uh yeah like i so i saw jack
after that video came out uh you know i don't like i think he knows where it's come from and i think
he has a good idea about it i don't think he's actually bothered uh but it can't be nice to have
what certainly he considers to be a paid hit piece put out about him you know and i think and i
think it's a shame for the i just think it's a shame for the ecosystem that we can't like act a
bit more adult than that that's what i was gonna say um there was a couple years back i had a couple
developer friends that were looking to join the ecosystem and we were going to develop a product
which jack actually knows about jack um he and i actually had a conversation around this and
the after seeing like the twitter activity even back then there was so much angst and
anger and conflict that they were like i'm i'm not going to be a part of this this is this
isn't what i want to be a part of that so i just i don't know even more of it coming out and i feel
like we should just be past this at this point like i know that all mature things will have some
level of conflict but why does it have to be so public and also so i think condescending is really
the word i want to choose here why does it have to be so condescending bear market but this was
before the bear market it started before the bear market like we were deep in the bull market
whenever i was trying to get some friends and okay and even then they were like no i'm out it just
seems like it's bringing out the worst of everybody my this point my take broadly is that i think that
first generation cosmos people have a lot of um for one to a better word trauma from that aib
explosion and diaspora and unresolved issues towards each other and lack of trust and it's
not just like a j versus ethan versus zaki thing i think it goes through all levels within that
company i think that's part of it and i think that's infused the same culture i think they're a kind
of second generation cosmos people that don't give off that energy and i think that over time that
will permeate through um i think you know so if you look at the duality lads if you look at spade
at neutron if you look at um uh the stride guys that these are the teams i know the most and you
know closest to so just because i've worked with them or the guys at leak wallet like they're just
not doing that and they're not interested in it and they're they're shipping good work and things
are happening and ultimately they're going to be the ones who win um and they're going to be the one
like and that but it makes me insanely bullish on the ecosystem as a whole because more people coming
are that mentality and what will happen is the people you know those og's just get effectively
diluted over time um so that's not to shit on some of those og's some of those are kind of like you
know cosmos heroes and i feel like a total arpa when i'm in front of them like you know that's fine
but i just mean that like there's a culture that they have because of what happened that these other
people don't have and i think that that really helps i think there's still some stuff that
needs to permeate through the community but i'm really hope but you know i think loads of that
does happen i think it is maybe i'm just naive but i think it's getting better despite the bmr
you know what i think that i would agree i think that it has gotten better um it doesn't see it
seemed like like what drama was on twitter recently was one of our core components of this show
for a long time like what's the new drama this week right that was easy to say and it's much
more difficult to say now generally if there's drama happening like there's a few core players and
we're like that's kind of played out i don't really want to talk about it so yeah i'm not
to agree i'm so glad we can be you know a bit of hope here the beacon of hopeium that's right i should be
that should be our new shield so we might have to drop the wholesome tag and become the beacon of
hope it is pretty good um so all right let's let's let's fucking go to some other drama-ish type
of shit um dps hey dps yeah more more dps someone had to explain that to me i was like what's dps
my trauma per second i was like oh okay do you know who do you know who claims to court who coined that
phrase no it's jack jack yeah it was definitely us he claims to have come up with it years ago because
he did like uh lots of like uh rpg kind of stuff where you have the damage per second is a is a stat
you just turned it but yeah that's he claims to have it but i first heard it on game i like that i
coined a term a term shield so you have you coined a term uh i would say i have coined a term i coined
djenn hawk rucks you did you did coin djenn hawk rucks and that is like the canonical calling of it
now it proliferated i coined a term i'm quite proud although like you know my my system gets quite a
lot of criticism there's a lot of warnings in that fucking guy
there is there weren't that many warnings prior to that double sign on say and then they're like uh oh
you've read my original guide that i wrote though right for djenn hawk rucks i don't know if i have
on my github oh man it is fucking full of warnings you told us about it when we when we talked like
when lucky friday when we had that meeting with you you were like djenn hawk rucks and you told us
about like the get up and everything yeah yeah i just think the word djenn at the start of a like uh
you know system it's like is it warning itself you really don't need much more than that right
so that's a great point so we have we have another remaining item
well too in the news so um okay i'm reading this because it's long uh the only dot dot
dot dot user on cosmos was wrecked by the canonical dot due to composable bridge being down for maintenance
for 10 days and people buying dot without the ability to orbit the composable team didn't inform
the community their bridge was down let alone been uh minimum viable product in beta stage
is that you funky are you the are you the user of dots on cosmos no well let me say this is
interesting this is really interesting so if you guys saw we did something where like jessica
cosmos you guys may know her she used to work for flip side she now works for us at lucky friday
she's our senior software ninja so she and i basically wanted to do something where we were
gonna for teddy dowell like we're gonna give to charity and so we we did a double thing she donated
a bad kid i donated my one bad kid and we were gonna do it for charity so i even brought this to the
attention of the composable labs team i'm like yo like there's a significant like problem between
like if i try to switch to the cosmo dot instead of the axle dot like it's way off like a massive
arbitrage opportunity so like i even pointed this out to them and and that's what i don't understand
like then i started seeing this stuff about levana and how they like wanted to force people to use
the cosmo dot or though i guess like i was told it's i bc dot for whatever reason instead of the
axle dot which is much more liquid and i'm like why are they forcing people to use it and i didn't
even know that the bridge was down until like i started seeing all the posts about on x so um no
i admittedly i just used the stuff the axle dot from axelar because i can just like pour it right
over to moonbeam and then i just bought i donated to the teddy uh that louis he ended up winning so
i i probably would be the one person using dot in the ecosystem because i mean i'm not gonna lie as
as a fan of both i would wouldn't mind like doing some kind of lp with adam and dot but yeah this
whole like thing was a bad it was a black eye really i think on on the cl team to that they
hadn't told anybody that the bridge was down and i've had friends who have tried to use it
and said it's like 15 clicks and then this their shit just gets stuck like they don't
know what to do so you know like as someone who want who just is i if i'm a maxi on anything
that's an interoperability maxi like and i feel like that's where this is all heading right like
to your point benny where you sang much earlier in the episode like not one pain is going to win i
feel like it's just going to be a bunch of chains talking to each other and i don't care if it's i bc
or whatever it is that connects us all i don't care like just make it happen and so that's why
like i was personally still i guess kind of bullish but it's interesting seeing sort of the
cosmos landscape become more leery about the composable team because the dot like side of the
fence has always held them at like an arms length after all the zack xpt stuff and everything else
and then now it seems like the few x spaces i've been on like i was did one with don
kryptonium and we kind of like co-hosted it and asked a lot of tough questions of omar and
everything else and so it's yeah this whole thing is just being it is really interesting right now
for me as someone who likes both ecosystems but i'm curious what you guys like what's your take on
all this and how this is played out and like what's your take on the bridge being down and not being
able to do the arbitrage and everything else i mean so i don't think that the we knew too much
about the composable team because like we're not part of the polka dot ecosystem right so all we
knew was there was this team now granted like i kind of know the history of that bridge right that
bridge started being written by sheldon from octopus and the composable team took into credit for it
and so i was already kind of leery about it there is that sheldon who's now at lochland
sheldon's like the big near guy he like octopus is somehow related to substrate like there's a kind
of close connection or kinship with like some of this stuff that's been written on polka dot like
i don't understand all the intricacies of it but yeah there's well so so octopus kind of turns
near into polka dot in the sense that okay you can create substrate chains off of near like doing
kind of using using polka dots kind of system of security and so sheldon had developed basically
ibc for that to kind of the cosmos and then the composable team found it and then used it
oh you don't know that but i don't think that it is sheldon that joint notional i'd be very surprised
if that were the case they seem to have quite a few people now um but yeah i mean the the bridge
the bridge being down is not like in my opinion such an issue because like all this well all the
stuff that hopefully they should be communicating when stuff's like mvp and beta um but yeah i mean
the the biggest issue i see there and that news is that they didn't communicate it to anyone um and it
sounds like they didn't you know make an effort on the bridging site to make it known that it is down
so like you know if i was the product manager for that um and your product was down i would have
this flash page just blurred out with a sign on it that says the bridge is currently down for
maintenance or whatever it is we'll we'll be back uh check again in like fucking three weeks yeah i
like my view is that someone got wrecked because they're shit at that like basic customer care
someone got someone someone's lost money because they haven't done their job properly
and they you know like there was a really nice guy from the composable team doing the rounds kind of
kind of you know see what the support was and kind of spoke to me not that my matter but he
doesn't know that right he just walks in and under and the guy wrapping the hub uh but he was like oh
are you you know supportive and like as a Brit it's really hard to just sort of pull you know i'm
just basically want to politely say go away don't come back like please don't like i i i've been
terrified of composable uh for a long time um i remember speaking i was on a call with um
um Rama and someone else and we were like weird that jack's like willing to trust his baby with
the with this team like and and like at the time i just thought oh well if jack thinks that this is
a good idea he must be seeing something that i don't and he's you know must think they're great
builders right like that's that's where i my head was at i'm less certain now and you know the and
this isn't a dig at all but like the bridge is obviously that everyone's most interested in with
ibc is the east stuff and we've got three teams working on that composable is one of them there
are two others um an interesting thing with um with user experience in bridging is that um i'm
pretty sure dydx is close to their v4 chain launch and i read somewhere hey really close so i read
somewhere that um that they have like a bunch of ecosystems with like one click bridge um straight
into their platform which i think is pretty cool and i don't know if that will like make them a
bit of a hub for um you know bridging assets i don't know what bridges they're using but um yeah i
mean if there's just like a one click bridge solution you click your button and it appears
on on their chick because you know one one thing for dydx that's crucial is user experience and
you don't want to materially change it from what people know and like at the moment and it's already
going to be like a pill to swallow for people to know that they're sending their stuff away from
you know the ethereum or wherever the fuck they've got it arbitram but the fact that i'm pretty sure
and i could just be spouting bullshit now but i'm pretty sure they're integrated with a bunch of
wallets and that you know you don't have to change your experience at all you just one click bridge
over into the their ecosystem still just the way you do it now it's just that it's you know they've
abstracted away the bridging yeah like i mean i'll just say this like squid router i think it does a
fantastic job of being able to pull stuff from cosmos polka dot whatever like it just you might
have to manipulate a little bit more like i'm going to go from this chain i want i'm using this asset
to this chain and this asset you might have to wait for a few minutes but like this it seems as if
these things are becoming more common in terms of how easy they they already use and it may be more
than one click but like when you're actually like the one signature you're giving in your metamask
or whatever it seems like it's becoming easier and easier by the day to to bridge over stuff to
another ecosystem like that's what happened when luis won the thing for the bad kids to send them
money like even though i couldn't use the cosmo dot and i use the axelar dot it was super easy
like i was just like okay i'm coming from this chain i'm coming here and then just like i would
drew it and it was right there and i could swap the glimmer and it was it was very easy so you
know i i think that some of the apprehensions that we all have about bridges are eventually going
to disappear especially if they become more ibc focused just with just knowing how that system
is set up to be for the most part trustless so i don't know i i'm i'm very like hopeful i guess
for lack of a better word about just some of these bridging solutions and the way that we'll be able
to connect ecosystems together do do you know what i think is probably like some of the biggest
untapped bridging uh liquidity is sexes like what if binance created a bridge that just natively
like i mean you had one everywhere right they do because if they used to they brought it down like
two years ago well i mean that that would make a lot of sense if they had like you know the ability
in their api to do that somehow with different interfaces just send you fucking um like even
if if they're using zero or something like that through a wallet and you can just send your your
usdc from an ethereum wallet address to like a noble wallet address and it just appears there
in a very short amount of time it was sweet it was really cool to use i wonder why that i guess
they weren't making any money out of it yeah probably not i think i think people started using it for
um the problem was people started using it using it as a way to get it off of their exchange and using
decentralized uh oh yeah makers yeah so they're like yeah i bc right like they don't want i bc
exactly yeah exactly isn't um binance smart change joining i bc so they can't be that far against it
yeah which is going to be interesting because then there will be two uh native usdcs available
on cosmos because there's a native dc on um binance smart chain
we see wait this minus isn't the binance smart chain like fork of the cosmos chain like the sdk
yeah it's built on the sdk like a very early version of it yeah i don't know if it's just
fucking grinding gears here it's like working through this yeah i didn't know they were either
i thought that they were like so far behind that it'd be really difficult for them to do and their
developers my understanding aren't exactly um yeah thank you all right uh blog dot cosmos dot network
um i bc is finally landing on bsc interesting okay i read it yeah i mean i suppose a blog isn't
you know from the horse's mouth but it's as close as it's going to get well cosmos dot network that's
like more or less official right bendy i think that might be the ic ad so you know who knows
five days ago by toky so yeah i mean it seems right i'm not a member of of cosmos here's a comment
about our work from jack zampolin trust a minimized interoperability across blockchain's ecosystem is
greatly needed and i'm fucking nothing about the oh hang on uh so from jack which i'm greatly excited
about the contributions from toky and data chain which are expanding i bc's reach to non-cosmos sdk
chains such as ethereum and bsc i'm looking forward to seeing their ongoing contributions to i bc
yeah the only thing is i think bsc was built on the sdk but like i said a very old version
well so bsc and the binance chain are different bsc is a fork of ethereum so this is
yeah so this is entirely different thing interesting interesting interesting okay okay yeah b and b
smart chain but is this the um the guys that left composable i don't know i don't know who toky is
i don't know if this is union i wonder if it is i'm not sure it says toky and data chain i don't
know i don't know who data chains uh today toky is excited to announce that i bc is finally landing
on bsc as many of you might know according to defy lama bsc is the third largest blockchain
network in the world by tbl so this represents a significant milestone for i bc but yeah i mean
the the thing is i'm pretty sure that you see let me let me look up the um usdc i'm so glad we've all
got our finger on the pulse here that's good i know i'm kind of blown away and second that
tron is apparently the second biggest chain for defy that seems like that's just because just
ends like mint and fake shit that's what i was going to say that doesn't seem usd debacle yeah yeah
yeah we'll only know that the bear market is over once that's it's you know unwound there's a lot
more pain to come don't bendy don't be so british dammit well what do you want me to say no i expect
you to say that just the the uber pessimists well look i mean i mean i mean i'm in a crazy little
spot i have to basically say look boys will be boys but it's all going you know we're all f***lads
so looking at this um so looking at the the circle uh multi-chain um listing of where they have
native usdc it does not appear that bsc is on the list but i 100 percent um was on a centralized
exchange the other day and saw it as an option for