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What am I doing? Yeah, I am attempting to unfuck something with super glue before we go live because I probably won't have a chance to do it

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before tomorrow and then I'll be thinking about it all of tomorrow. So that's why I was like, I'll just quickly fix this. I can

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I can finally get some rest, eh?

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from Independent Validator Teams.

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Hello and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from Independent Validator Teams. And this week we're going to be talking about the final couple of stages in the world to

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Spain. What ultimately happened with SEPCUS, spoiler alert, he won the GC, taking it out above his teammates, Yonas Vingogod and Primoz Roglic, who slipped down to third after Vingogod's attack, which we discussed in the last podcast.

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So what did you guys think on the final GC standings in the Vuelta? It turned out it was all a bit of a nothing burger, really, the internal politics of Jumbo Visma.

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Do you think it's going to have some impact on them as we kind of moved into the mid-season, like the end of the season, Italian classics, and then, you know, next season, what they might, we might be thinking of in terms of GC and the Grand Tours?

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I have no idea what in the fuck you're talking about.

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I swear to God, you made up every one of those terms in there. Those are not real names.

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Are they even real words?

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Real words is all the real sport. It's all actually kind of, yeah, it's not, I don't think any of that was, there were no takes. There were no takes in bowl.

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But no, it's just kind of the end of the Vuelta, as many was not as exciting as it could have been, although.

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Are you talking about football?

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Cycling. Cycling, yeah.

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SEPCUS football.

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Football? I mean, I say football a lot, but I don't actually watch football.

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What is that?

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Is it train spotting where the girls come out there?

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What are you all talking about?

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Bo.

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What are you all talking about?

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Sharpen.

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Yeah.

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That's the one.

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Yeah, somebody I know basically came, he was going to visit his cousin, right?

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So he came up to, he went up to the city where he lived and he knew he was going to have like a few hours before he saw him and he wouldn't have anything to do.

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And he was like, fuck what do I do?

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And so he went and bought a football on his way to the train station and then went like 300 miles across the country with this football under one arm.

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And then when he got there, just got, went near to the place where he's meeting his mate, saw a park and then just started like kicking a football round on his own.

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And then a group of lads were like, man, you just, we just, I just went for some guys, but yeah, we can have a kick around while, you know, fucking always late, aren't they?

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And then he just started a big game of football in the park.

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It was like football.

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And then was ages late to meet his actual cousin who was there to meet.

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And then when he came, he turned up, barged his way into this place.

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His, his cousin was not there yet, by the way.

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Everybody was late in the story.

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And this guy just knocks on the door.

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They open the door.

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He kicks a football through the door and goes football.

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And they're like, sorry, what?

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And he just like goes, kind of conga lines his way into the house, cracking a beer as he goes.

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And they're like, is that so and so's mate?

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Is that his cousin?

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Who are we expecting today?

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And he's like football.

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What are you doing?

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What have you been doing?

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And then his cousin arrives and he's like, all right, mate, what we've been doing the last few hours.

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It's like football.

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So yeah, that's a story about football.

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Where football was said a lot.

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And then there was a big house party there and everybody was saying football.

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And then a bunch of those lads went to Glastonbury Festival with a massive flag.

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They got a flag made up six by four foot that said football.

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And then it ended up on in the B on the BBC in the UK.

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They show the festival footage and they just kept panning to this flag and being like, hmm, some football fans in the audience.

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It's a story about football.

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Was that held by Seb Coose?

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Seb Coose, as it turned out, was the guy with the football.

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That's the answer.

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What's that?

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The American cousin.

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He was the American cousin.

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He was over from, where is he from?

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Colorado?

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No, I think, yeah, I think we said we thought it was Wyoming, but it wasn't Wyoming.

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I think it was Colorado.

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Yeah, Schultz got really excited about Wyoming.

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Then it did.

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I said Wyoming.

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I get really excited because there was somebody somewhat famous, although that's a stretch.

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He'll be famous.

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He'll be famous now, though.

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Is he?

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Because, you know, you're lackluster.

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When his, how he got the time gap initially was a cracking, cracking piece of cycling.

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Oh, I don't want to hear about it.

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You just go watch the stage.

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And also a board.

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He blurred himself out.

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He's really good at how he can have wank.

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What the fuck's going on?

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This can't.

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Lovely.

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So I had, well, I will, I also have it.

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Yes.

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So for those, so do you want to go straight into Nell's News Corner?

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And in the meantime, I'm going to troll the chat.

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We fucking discuss that there is no new Nell's News Corner.

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Robin did a really good job last week.

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Sprinkle the news during the episode.

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Fucking.

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I'm going to.

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Not the fucking banner, please.

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Fuck.

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The banner.

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I'm exhausted.

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The omniflex team.

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Actually, your boy, Joseph, who I think works on your team, right?

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But Joe, Joe, is he part of omniflex as well?

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Does he do work for both?

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Or is he kind of like an ambassador there?

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Or is that part of King Nils or what's the story?

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No, he, he like, he does some work for them as well.

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So he asked, they're doing an omniflex chat today, which was really cool.

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Like, then they want to do like, they do like validate around tables and just ask

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some questions and things like that.

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That was on a Twitter space this morning, East Coast time.

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And I was thinking it was like a half an hour.

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I think we were on that thing went on for like two hours.

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And so I'm a little bit spent.

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It was good though.

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Like we talked a lot about governance and I shed on that a little bit.

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They talk about validator operations.

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There were a lot of good questions from community members around different types

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of things.

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And somebody, an NFT collection holder was asking a bunch of questions around

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whether NFT teams should start validators and what that means.

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So I had some opinion.

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What was the, like, what was the general gist of those?

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Like, so, okay, a couple of things with omniflex.

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First of all, I assume that the validator expansion was an item of discussion.

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It was actually it wasn't early on.

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And then Cislik hop hop down.

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And that's, I guess, that's omniflex prop 16.

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And so we collectively said that every change should now probably just skip

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number 16 props.

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16's of video.

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Yeah.

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It's like an auto veto.

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It's kind of like, like hotel level, you know, floor 13, you just skip it.

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And so from prop 15 to 17.

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But prop 16 omniflex.

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I voted abstain.

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Usually I would vote no on these.

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And so they were just like, you first, somebody else said Bill, talk about it.

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I had voted abstain and then I changed it to no.

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Yeah, I probably will as well.

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I'm not sure if the votes still open.

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I said, I said, I probably would too.

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So I, you know, I was very open around, you know, Cislik brought up because I think,

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I think they're in a tough spot.

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I think most change are tough spot about this because I think ultimately they

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don't want to expand the set because just those block times, there's really no

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benefit, but they want to be able to support what the community wants.

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And I was just saying it was, you know, a little bit of theater and it's better

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to kind of really work more around changing the Nakamoto and, you know, getting

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that getting that number higher and try to try to work on the top of the chain,

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not the bottom of the chain, because who gives a shit about five validators

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joining it.3% total?

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Like, it doesn't fucking matter.

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Like it's not doing anything.

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And so, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So anyway, but I mean, like, sorry, just something you said, like the, the slower

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block times and like, I don't think that the effect on like block time ends.

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It's a small overhead really.

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It's a bit of a hummingbird.

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But it's a, it's an overhead you can't fucking get rid of.

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You can't, I mean, you can lower it, right?

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I mean, you can lower it.

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Yeah.

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You do so.

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You, well, it's not, you just lower it.

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Well, like, I mean, put in a fucking proposal.

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It's culturally difficult to do so.

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Technically, it's easy.

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You just fucking put the perv holes on it and people vote on it.

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And it's, it's done.

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But yeah.

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But people get fucking.

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Well, it's like, it's like, it's like convergence on zero, isn't it?

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Basically, you're just like, well, eventually.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, it does, it does increase the overhead.

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I mean, I mean, like, like say, I mean, say wouldn't, I don't think say would be able

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to do it at 50, much less 75.

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It clearly wouldn't be able to do it at 100 validators, right?

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Like, what do you mean?

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Oh, it would be a fucking function.

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Yeah.

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Like it would, like they would never get, they would never keep that block time.

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They would never like it.

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Just, there's just, there's just a speed of light issue here.

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They would some of these types of things.

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They would, but the, the, so the shittiest performing validators would always be getting jailed.

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They would just, yeah, they would just get completely messed every time.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Well, it depends on light and he's too low.

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Not just shitty performing, but if, if everyone was in Germany and two data centers, then you

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probably, you could probably make it work.

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But, but even that, it ended up like really centralized because people would be like fighting

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to make sure they're in that top fucking 67% that does the signing and people who don't

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make it in time.

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So it would be like the network would wait for 67% and then sign and then whoever didn't

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make it would get fucking eventually jailed because they're obviously running the shitty

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hardware.

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So that's right.

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So it'd be like people would have to, people would be jacking up their hardware to like

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be first and then.

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That's what we do on say.

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That's what we do on say.

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Like, like not, not from a validated perspective, but like our ability to keep a zero lag.

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If, if the farther you move away from Germany, the harder it is for that node to stay active

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or to stay, to stay on lag zero because, or to stay at the, at the height, because you

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can actually watch, like I can watch logs coming across and there's a, there's a speed

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of light issue here as well on my logs, right?

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Because I'm getting logs from halfway across the earth, which is 200 milliseconds no matter

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what.

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And, and you have block times of 387 milliseconds.

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So by the time I see them, it's kind of fucked.

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But I've noticed that I need to have stronger hardware the farther I am, I am away from

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Germany.

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Like the node needs to be faster because the blocks are coming in delayed.

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Right.

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So I can run that quick to get it back in time.

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You got it.

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So I can, I have to run like, like 79, like 70, like 50s or those types of things in the

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US where in Germany, I can run 2388s because I think the node actually needs a process

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to block somewhat faster to be able to do that.

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Now, how scientific that is, I don't, I don't really know.

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I've just, I'm just kind of watching it.

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And frankly, those are the cost difference of those is not a big deal.

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So it's not really that big of a deal.

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But, but because we were talking to like other, because I was working with a bunch of, I don't

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know how we get in the stomach, but we were with a bunch of CEX's that are on say, and

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they're all running at AWS.

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And, and some of those are having real trouble like staying on, on, on the, on the, on the

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head, and part of that is because there, there's a lot of bad peers and say, because I think

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people run lower nodes and then they're in the peer book and then you start peering against

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nodes that are lagged way out, right?

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And those types of issues.

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But also they're, they need to really bump the specs and their specs are like ridiculously

237
00:12:00,580 --> 00:12:01,580
high at AWS.

238
00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:07,080
Like they're crazy expensive because they, they need to have fast processing time.

239
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,080
Crazy expensive on AWS and was like, hold on.

240
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,080
I'm talking to semi scripts.

241
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:21,080
They're running, they're running nodes that are $1.75 an hour plus, plus egress on say,

242
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,080
which is like fucking crazy, right?

243
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,080
There's a lot of data depending on how many, how many, and there are purely like 200 peers.

244
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,080
So it's probably,

245
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,080
You're, you're nodes are $1.77 an hour, bro.

246
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,080
Yeah.

247
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,080
I can also, it's probably a five to $7,000 a month node.

248
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,080
Like it probably is like when you get into it, like it's, it's crazy.

249
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,080
That's what we were spending on app today.

250
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,080
I know.

251
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,080
Well, you, but you actually had, well, all right.

252
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,080
You had two nodes.

253
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,080
We had dedicated IOPS as well.

254
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,080
I like reserved.

255
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,080
Yeah.

256
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,080
Yeah.

257
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,080
Well, because the disc was the big bottleneck.

258
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,080
So I kind of, I kind of, I'd have to look back in our configuration in the Terraform,

259
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,080
but I think we were, I think something like 64,000.

260
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,080
I would say a hundred, but no, I think it might be thousand IOPS.

261
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,080
It was a huge number.

262
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,080
I think I like IO one, I think it's 64,000.

263
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,080
It's like 64,000.

264
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,080
That's all sand based.

265
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,080
I don't even know what the hell that is.

266
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,080
That has to be like, I don't even know, I don't even know what that storage looks like.

267
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,080
Like it's all cash and RAM.

268
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,080
And then like, I don't even know what the connection is.

269
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:25,080
What like over like a hundred gig between the EC2 instances and the actual drives.

270
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,080
Like I don't even know how that works.

271
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,080
But I mean, it's all, it's all just their own virtualization mesh.

272
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,080
Isn't it?

273
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,080
It's like their own.

274
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,080
It's not so, yeah.

275
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,080
So I'm back to, back to Omiflex.

276
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,080
So, so basically I was just kind of, I think I might change my vote as well or to see what

277
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,080
I'm going to change my vote as well or to say no, but I was just kind of pooping on the,

278
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,080
the idea that it actually makes any sort of, any sort of difference.

279
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,080
And I don't even know what the buy-in and the buy-in actually was, I thought pretty high.

280
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,080
It wasn't like, it wasn't like, no, it's like, fuck all.

281
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,080
No, I thought it was like, I thought it was like $13,000 or something like that.

282
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,080
It counts.

283
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,080
Like I am like the number six.

284
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,080
I mean, I'm thinking of a different one.

285
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,080
The, the TVL of my validator is like 20 grand.

286
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,080
Oh, okay.

287
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:06,080
All right.

288
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:07,080
All right.

289
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,080
So, yeah.

290
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,080
So, and the other thing I was saying is like, I'm like, and even I was saying this to the

291
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,080
NFT holder as well, like, or the NFT group, because they were talking about, is it worthwhile?

292
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,080
I'm like, just assume you're, if you're going to, like, if you're going to, it's okay to

293
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,080
run a node, but are you going to run a node for the rest of your life?

294
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,080
Like, is this what you want to do?

295
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,080
Like, do you want to be able to support this?

296
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,080
Running a node is easy.

297
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:31,080
Running operations that are resilient and, and you're saying, I'm going to do this forever.

298
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,080
Being on page duty is fucking exhausting.

299
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:35,080
It's exhausting, right?

300
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,080
And then like, if this is what you want to do, I think that the thing, sorry to cut it

301
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:46,080
a little bit, but I think the thing that we perhaps have not done well, now a little bit.

302
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,080
Of course.

303
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,080
Because I was making good points here and, and I, what do I know?

304
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,080
I'm a tired idiot, right?

305
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,080
But I think one of the things we've, we've, we've talked about on the podcast before we

306
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,080
talked about burnout, we talked about a few other different things that kind of relate

307
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:00,080
it.

308
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,080
And like, obviously if you run a small business, which is inherently what all of us do, it's

309
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,080
quite hard to take holiday.

310
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,080
And you know, that's, you know, I literally in the last week or two, I've taken my first

311
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,080
sort of 10 day, just like I had, I had a holiday a little bit earlier in the summer for five

312
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,080
days.

313
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,080
And then I've just taken another 10 days off.

314
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,080
And this is like the most holiday I've taken in years and years and years and years and

315
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:22,080
years and years.

316
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,080
Yeah.

317
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,080
It's been a time of the sun and whatnot.

318
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,080
It's been great.

319
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,080
But like we're number one, you're bad at that when you're a small business to you're bad

320
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,080
at it when you're a validator.

321
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,080
And you're super, super bad at it when you're constantly on page duty and via page duty,

322
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:43,080
I know that I'm probably one of the only ones here that is relies very heavily on sort of

323
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,080
contract for the odd bits of additional stuff.

324
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:51,080
Like we, we, that's basically how we expand our resource base with how we work.

325
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:56,080
And the very last thing you can get people to pay, you can pay them to do is on calls.

326
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,080
Right.

327
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,080
Because anybody who's a contractor who's an infrastructure engineer is doing that so they

328
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,080
can get paid more for doing nine to five and never having to do fucking page duty again.

329
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,080
Right.

330
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:12,480
So, so inherently you end up taking almost all of, you know, that that stress and it

331
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,580
means that even when you do take time off to your surface point, do you want to do this

332
00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:17,580
for the rest of your life?

333
00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:18,580
Okay.

334
00:16:18,580 --> 00:16:21,080
Maybe the rest of your life is a stretch, but you know, a lot of networks we've we'll

335
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,160
value 10 years, five years, 15 years, a lot of networks we validate right now have been

336
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,080
in production for two years now.

337
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,080
Right.

338
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,080
So, you know, this is nearly on its first birthday.

339
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,080
Juno's second birthday is in what, 10 days?

340
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,080
Ditto Stargaze.

341
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,200
You know, these are networks that we've been, all of us running for a couple of years in

342
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,200
production now.

343
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,440
And even if you're on holiday, even when you do decide to take a holiday, which as I kind

344
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:52,320
of got was going through there, and you need to do this, by the way, otherwise you will

345
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,080
eventually crash your note out because you're too tired and you're too burnt out.

346
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,080
So, you know, blah, blah, blah.

347
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,280
You don't have to mention on chains that are all losing money.

348
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,200
On chains that are all losing money yet.

349
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:08,680
It's not like it's like, oh, shit, I got to be up at 2am because, but I'm making, you

350
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,080
know, 20,000 a month or something like that.

351
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:12,080
Yeah, yeah.

352
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:13,080
Right.

353
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,080
But that's the thing.

354
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,040
Even when you're on holiday, you're still checking, you know, even if you are like, ah, this

355
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,600
week I'm off, I'm not going to do any work work.

356
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,240
You're still checking your page.

357
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,560
You're still, you know, checking at various times.

358
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:25,560
Sure.

359
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,840
So I told the story of when the first Juno cyber attack happened.

360
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:35,440
That was like in that year, I only took about four or five days off and it was basically

361
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,400
just immediately post COVID when we could travel.

362
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,080
I went spend some time with my dad and I had to cut the holiday short because of the Juno

363
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,080
cyber attack.

364
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,080
Oh yeah, I remember that.

365
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,080
Happen when I was off a mountain with him.

366
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:54,080
And it's just like, well, I literally had, I looked at my, we were just like, but we

367
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,080
was like, oh, do you want to stop and get a coffee or something?

368
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,440
I was like, that's a great idea.

369
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,280
Just pick something, you know, as you do when you stop somewhere and you're just like, oh,

370
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,480
just take out my phone and see what's happening.

371
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,200
Shouldn't have looked, shouldn't have looked.

372
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,400
I had it on vibrate and I was like, ah, I think it's been vibrating in my pocket.

373
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,400
There's a lot going on here.

374
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,400
A hundred messages, messages from max, all this sort of thing.

375
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,200
I was like, right, we need to leave.

376
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,700
This is done.

377
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,360
This shit is, we're done.

378
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,880
But like that's the thing, isn't it?

379
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,160
And, and, and, you know, back to your point as well about like talking to teams about

380
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,640
should we run a valovator to make money?

381
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,520
Well, at the moment to make money, no, because you're not going to make money.

382
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,360
Number one, a number two, do you have the skill?

383
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:36,800
I mean, some networks are much harder to run than others.

384
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,960
Aptos, much harder to run, say much harder to run, do you know, Stargaze, et cetera,

385
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,160
relatively well understood at this point, been production a long time.

386
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,800
Do you, do you want to A, can you, A, can you run it?

387
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,200
B, are you going to make any money and C, can you run it for the long term?

388
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,920
Because that's, it's tough logistically, it's tough on a mental health perspective.

389
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,400
It's tough on a financial perspective because you're not going to find people to help you

390
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,200
or it's very difficult to find people to help you.

391
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,000
And you're kind of on your own.

392
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,560
You're a bit of a, yeah.

393
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,840
The Valovator Life is like, it's much more glamorous in a bull market, let's say.

394
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,280
At the moment, I don't know.

395
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,960
But then the question is, how are those teams going to make money?

396
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,040
I mean, back to the perennial question we ask every week on this podcast, right?

397
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,920
How do you make money in this industry if we knew we'd be doing it, right?

398
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,400
I mean, you go from chain to chain and you find opportunity to opportunity and you get

399
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,320
lucky in some areas and you miss some, you win some, that's it, right?

400
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,040
But I think it's, and then you run the ghost chains for the rest of your life.

401
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,120
And then you carry, you carry.

402
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,600
You carry so many losers with you.

403
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,240
You carry all these things for it because getting out of chains, I think, is the real

404
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:48,240
challenge too.

405
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,240
We've talked about that before.

406
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,080
But like, getting, and the other thing I was telling you in this city, it's not just

407
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,200
running the Valovator, but like, I mean, you're running it.

408
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,560
And even if you, you want to use a third party and those types of things, if you're going

409
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,800
to, if you don't know what you're doing because you're not only worrying about your piece,

410
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,360
but you're also carrying the tokens of others, right?

411
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:09,120
So if you're double signed, if you get slashed or something else, you're carrying the burden

412
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,960
of others gains or whatever.

413
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,680
And so if you're going to take that seriously, there's some responsibility there with that.

414
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,680
And I think people get into this, not thinking about that part of it, right?

415
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,240
Like the ability to lose value for others and what you do about that.

416
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,440
So yeah, I think it's, I think it's, so anyway, that was my point on the omnivorex call.

417
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,560
And for that group, I said, you know, I'm like, if you want to use it as a marketing,

418
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,160
I mean, there's a lot of marketers that are out there that use, that run validators, right?

419
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:45,800
And even Liam from Stake Cita was one of the, one of the, one of the kind of, I guess,

420
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,040
moderators of that call.

421
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,360
And I mean, Stake Cita, they're, I mean, they know what they're doing, right?

422
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:54,480
So I think, I think they've built some decent, a good team there in terms of being able to

423
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,480
run.

424
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,680
And they've had, they tombstone somewhere else, right?

425
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,840
Didn't they get slashed on something?

426
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,560
I forget, we were talking about a while back, it was like last summer or something.

427
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,840
They got, they got, they got, maybe not tombstone, but they got slashed on something.

428
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,440
No, actually, I think they got tombstone somewhere else.

429
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,480
It reminded me of what, what chain that was.

430
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,560
But it happens, it can happen, right?

431
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:19,000
And depending on the operator and, and if you want to get in this game, like you have

432
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,600
to be, you have to be pretty on top of it for, for like a long time.

433
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,960
And so I was, my advice to them was like, if you want to pay $500 a month for the ability

434
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,000
to have a validator on that piece and you want to use it as a marketing tool, then partner

435
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,280
with somebody and recognize that you're not going to make money on it and recognize that

436
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,160
you're going to keep it going for a very, very long time.

437
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,520
And I think that probably turned that person off.

438
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,120
Cause it wasn't, it wasn't a great thing.

439
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:48,120
So wow, yeah.

440
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:52,320
I mean, the, the point of like running it for a very, very, very long time really depends

441
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:53,320
on like,

442
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,480
Just kind of beyond our control, isn't it?

443
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,200
Well, no, yes and no.

444
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,640
So whether the network runs is whether or not everyone runs it or not, but whether or

445
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:09,840
not you continue there is like a decision based on, you know, you respect for your delegators,

446
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,840
I guess.

447
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:11,840
Yeah.

448
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,080
And, and so, you know, the considerations when you're shutting down is like, is there

449
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,040
any token value at all left?

450
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,720
And we'll like, what's the net effect to your delegators and how does that affect your brand

451
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,280
and your community?

452
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:33,320
And if, if you don't make any money, but your delegators are still making money, then, you

453
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,440
know, it would be a business decision on your side to turn it off.

454
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,040
It would be a morality decision otherwise to keep it running for, for them.

455
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,120
I mean, do you make an inherent commitment to just run it no matter what?

456
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,240
Once you start a network, I think you do.

457
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,360
But we have also shut down particular networks.

458
00:22:52,360 --> 00:23:00,080
So we, I'm considering shutting down our T grade validated because there's a lot going

459
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,080
on there.

460
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,080
Yeah.

461
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:08,080
I thought that was your, I thought you were really up on, on T grade and the, and the possibilities

462
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,080
there.

463
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,080
Yeah.

464
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,760
But, so they, but they launched it and it just hasn't had any real adoption whatsoever.

465
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:20,160
So, you know, they, they've had recent things that they've said that, you know, they're

466
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,520
working on this and that for this year.

467
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,240
I'm giving it a bit longer to see how it goes.

468
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,560
I have to check whether we're still under contracts.

469
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,720
Have never made money out of it.

470
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,760
It's always been loser for us.

471
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,320
We haven't really sold any of the token or anything.

472
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:41,040
So we've been running that network for probably over maybe even two years now, at least a

473
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,440
year, maybe a year and a half.

474
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,840
But it doesn't, that particular network, it doesn't affect anyone if you finally leave

475
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,760
because that network's not based on delegated proof of stake.

476
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,200
It's, it's fee based, right?

477
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,360
Sorry.

478
00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:59,640
Is it more fee based in terms of?

479
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,240
No, it's, it's, so the, is a different model that doesn't involve staking.

480
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:11,560
It's a whole different staking model and, and your, your voting weight and your, you

481
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:18,720
know, the return is, your return of the inflate inflation is based on engagement and engagement

482
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,440
points, which you can then have staked to your validator.

483
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,000
So basically if I leave, it only affects me.

484
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:32,840
Like there's no one else that have, they potentially have, is people with engagement points delegated

485
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:39,080
to my validator, but nine times out of 10, the validators are the ones with the engagement

486
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,080
points anyway.

487
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,560
So I got you.

488
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:42,560
Yeah.

489
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,880
I mean, you can always join later.

490
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,680
Like at the moment, it's just we're printing empty block after empty block.

491
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,160
So well, I mean, there's, I mean, that's pretty common.

492
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,160
Yeah.

493
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,160
A lot, a lot of chains, right?

494
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,880
So, I mean, I think, yeah, I don't know.

495
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,640
It's a, it's a, and the other thing is like, if you're thinking longterm is, all right,

496
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,920
do we have the opportunity to, like, are we going to hold off on some of these types

497
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,920
of things?

498
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,560
And we have the opportunity for it to, to be in a good position later.

499
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,240
But you know, I, I kind of have a little of a negative opinion towards some of those

500
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,240
types of things.

501
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,880
Things that have already peaked and you're down, you know, 90% or 95% or 98% from some

502
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,800
sort of all time high, it's really difficult for those to actually come back, not to that

503
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,120
all time high, but even, even to come back at all.

504
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,960
Cause there's, there's so many opportunities for somebody to fork a chain and come up with

505
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:32,960
a similar idea.

506
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,960
And, yeah.

507
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,960
And the next thing is shiny.

508
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,160
Again, in the next bull market, right?

509
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,160
Yeah.

510
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,800
And then the tokenomics and whatnot, like you can, you can, you can, you can, you can

511
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:48,000
you go like, okay, well, if the all time high was a dollar, right?

512
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,880
And I expect it to recover in three years to 20 cents, right?

513
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,280
You go like, well, by then the tokenomics will probably radically change, right?

514
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,680
So minting will be less profitable.

515
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:07,040
And then a commission, which may be between five and 10%, right?

516
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,320
Is going to nas X amount, right?

517
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,600
It's now X amount, which is let's say it probably like we're talking by the time the

518
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,920
bull runs, comes back around, we're probably talking another year, maybe longer.

519
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,720
Don't know.

520
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,560
Not, not financial advice.

521
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:29,880
But like on a lot of chains with kind of the early cosmos Ponziomics, you're going to see

522
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,320
that you'll be making like a quarter, maybe less in terms of like minting like inflation

523
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:41,400
rewards, which anyway, when the price starts going up, it's going to cause its own problems

524
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,240
because everybody's going to get the same idea, they're all going to run for the exit.

525
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,120
So the price is going to have a choppy way to get back up.

526
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,720
And then the other problem you're going to have is that let's say the price even does

527
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,560
recover, you're as validator, reliant because we don't have another economic model other

528
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:01,080
than inflation rewards, which we've talked about at length on this podcast in the past.

529
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:07,640
You know, you're making a much smaller absolute number from your previous percentage, right?

530
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:13,920
Both in terms of any tokens yourself delegating, but also in terms of anything that is delegated

531
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:14,920
to you.

532
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,320
So it's even like there's even less incentive.

533
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:23,560
Like if you're going to make money, probably any thing that you as a company would make

534
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,080
would be from your existing tokens you've already staked or compounded that that's going

535
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,200
to far outstrip anything that comes into your validator.

536
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,680
I would have thought anyway.

537
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,000
So there's a very weird, like, this is back again, I guess there's more a question of

538
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,960
tokenomics really in a lot of ways than it is about market forces, which is that there's

539
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,520
actually like a pretty heavy disincentive if you're a genesis validator on one of these

540
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:55,080
high inflation in the first year type chains to actually keep running your validator past

541
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,920
a year or two or three, because at that point you will have extracted the maximum value you

542
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,080
can mathematically ever extract from that chain.

543
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,840
So your best bet is actually to just withdraw and stake your tokens with another validator.

544
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,280
The only reason you might not want to do so is jurisdictional reasons or if you don't trust,

545
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,200
if there's not another validator you trust and to stay up.

546
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,120
But there are a lot of good validates that continue running.

547
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:21,960
So I know it's an interesting question.

548
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,440
I know Niles talked about it quite a lot, that particular question of where you're actually

549
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,480
getting, like, where would you?

550
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,440
Obviously, we're not really making money at the moment, but in the cosmos anyway, but

551
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,040
like, where would you be hypothetically making money for them?

552
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,200
Is it tokens that you've got at Genesis or near Genesis from inflation or is it future

553
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,200
tokens?

554
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Almost always the former.

555
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,600
So the only thing I would add to that is the morality.

556
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,600
You're talking purely from a profitability perspective, but you also have to consider

557
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,160
your users.

558
00:28:54,160 --> 00:29:01,560
And I think it's probably like the worst time, the worst time you could shut down your validator

559
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:07,720
is in the depth of a bear market when no one's paying attention because then, you know, they

560
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:13,960
might have picked your brand because they trust you and then you shut down your validator

561
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,520
while no one's paying attention and you're down bad.

562
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:23,160
But then, you know, they come back when the enthusiasm returns to the market and find

563
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,960
that they haven't received rewards for the last six months because they fucking, you

564
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,160
know, you fucked them.

565
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,160
So right.

566
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,160
There's no one's watching.

567
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,160
I don't know.

568
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:37,920
Like, you know, things like Juno, Stargaze, even Chihuahua, like during the bull market

569
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:46,160
and when they launched, you know, I feel like we did well enough out of those and took profits

570
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:54,040
off the table enough that we can at least give them a chance for a long time.

571
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:59,480
You know, I kind of have a bit of a limit to where I'm willing to see things go.

572
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:06,640
And my limit is if my TVL gets below like 10 grand, yeah, that when I'm sort of looking

573
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,920
at turning it off, like we're not making money after at the inflation rates at the moment,

574
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:18,280
like, you know, a lot of them are sort of between say seven and 30%.

575
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:25,400
And if there's a TVL below like 200,000, you're already not making money.

576
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,400
Right.

577
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,400
That's five percent.

578
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,040
We probably haven't been making money for a while.

579
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,040
That's five percent.

580
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Yeah.

581
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,040
Yeah.

582
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,040
At five percent.

583
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,560
And, you know, we won't go over five percent for the most part.

584
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,200
So like all of our validators are five percent.

585
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,200
That's also a decision, right?

586
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:47,200
To say to say at 200,000 at five percent, that's my that's my limit.

587
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,160
And I would rather leave the chain than up than increase my commission.

588
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,160
Yeah.

589
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,560
So let me quick math this.

590
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,560
So safe.

591
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,320
We've got 200,000 and there's give it a generous amount.

592
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,160
15% of inflation.

593
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,160
Yeah.

594
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:08,160
This is an accounting for like dilution and it fucking going down five percent of that

595
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,600
1500 bucks a year, 125 bucks a month.

596
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,960
That's actually probably at what at what at what dollar amount.

597
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,440
So that's just taking the TVL.

598
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,320
So if you're yeah, if you're validator has 200 grand and then the inflation on that,

599
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,480
assuming that the price is static inflation or 15% gives you X and then you take five

600
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:29,480
percent.

601
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,400
It's about 1500 bucks for a year.

602
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,360
That's not worth the cost of the.

603
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,680
That doesn't cover an hour of my time.

604
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,600
Like no, yeah, it doesn't.

605
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,600
Yeah.

606
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,360
But again, if it's if it's a low hour, you bill $1500 an hour.

607
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,280
I'm not on a monthly basis.

608
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,280
Yeah.

609
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:52,280
Yeah.

610
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,280
25 bucks a month.

611
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,080
I definitely bill more than 125 bucks.

612
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,080
Yes.

613
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,080
Absolutely.

614
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:58,080
Yeah.

615
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,080
Yeah.

616
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,680
I think that's that's a good that's a good actually set of math.

617
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,360
And then I think you make a decision from there whether or not it's is this what's the

618
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,000
propensity for growth and what's the value of the chain?

619
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,880
Do we think it's undervalued or is it overvalued?

620
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:11,880
Right.

621
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:12,880
And those types of things.

622
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,880
I think you're based on that.

623
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:14,880
Let let.

624
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,000
Well, it's to be fair for just to cut in again.

625
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,320
Sorry, no, but like your your math just there where you're like, oh, actually, no, 125 dollars

626
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:23,320
an hour.

627
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,560
Like that's another one of those numbers that sounds like a lot on paper.

628
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,000
And then if you've ever had to try if you've ever had to pay a freelance infrastructure

629
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,200
engineer and because you're doing Kanga Bucks as well on you.

630
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,200
No, that's not.

631
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,200
Okay.

632
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,200
Yeah.

633
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,200
USD.

634
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,800
There's I would think a slim chance you can get a decent infra person for 125 dollars

635
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,720
an hour, much less one who understands the cosmos.

636
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:47,720
Yeah.

637
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,560
But you have to pay that person for fucking 40 hours a week.

638
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:52,560
Yeah.

639
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,920
That's what I mean.

640
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,880
That's why even if you could you can't and even if you could it would be more than that.

641
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,440
And so like your math is if anything like on the face of it, you're like 125 dollars

642
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,440
an hour sounds high.

643
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,680
It's like, no, if anything, that's actually pretty low.

644
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,440
That's actually well, it's also for one hour.

645
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,080
So it's not like it's not 125 times 160 a month.

646
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,680
It's it's we do the taxes slash accountancy discussion.

647
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:20,920
I can nothing.

648
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,440
It's the not worth it.

649
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,240
It's six months into the year now.

650
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,800
I pretty much was it's just coming up to it.

651
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,400
So I was doing our running accounting.

652
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,720
I was trying to work out where like it's really interesting, I guess I was observing like just

653
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,760
how those small incremental costs that you just go, oh, that's cost of running the business.

654
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:40,760
We have to do it.

655
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,600
Servers AWS, whatever it might be.

656
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,600
Yeah.

657
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,600
How quickly that stuff adds up.

658
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,600
Holy shit.

659
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,600
Holy shit.

660
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:47,680
Like I canceled.

661
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:53,240
I think I canceled seven bare metal machines this week because I've been I was just on a

662
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,880
I was trying to work.

663
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,920
Well, I was I was on a well, this this this makes sense.

664
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,920
Let's do this.

665
00:33:58,920 --> 00:33:59,920
And then I was doing things.

666
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Well, this is going to expire in November.

667
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,120
I might as well just do it now and bring up a separate one.

668
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,120
And this is a better deal.

669
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,760
And I'm trying to change providers on some shit and like all these types of things.

670
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,080
And I realized that like that I have a, you know, $12,000 a month infrastructure cost.

671
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,240
And I'm looking at this going, what the fuck is going on?

672
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:16,680
Like where the hell did this come from?

673
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,440
And I'm just not being smart about it, right?

674
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Because you get in that situation where where you're making decisions based off of long

675
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,360
term, but you look short term and you realize that like, what the hell is this?

676
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,360
Right.

677
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,480
But yeah, it's very easy.

678
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,680
Those little things like, hey, this, the servers on a discount in this area, it's only 200 bucks

679
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,440
a month in Singapore, which is a really cheap thing.

680
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,600
You're like, I'll get two because I could use them.

681
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,880
And then you realize, oh, shit, that's 400 bucks a month, like another $400 a month.

682
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,880
Right.

683
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:42,880
Yeah.

684
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,480
Or any network where you always have to run a test net, like you sometimes forget again.

685
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:46,480
Oh, yeah.

686
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Right.

687
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:48,480
Right.

688
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,440
And I mean, I don't obviously, I know I bag on about it, but like it one of the big

689
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,520
things that we've moved off, you know, in the last three, four months was running a very

690
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,560
large AWS rig for Aptos.

691
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,280
And we had to run that for a test net as well.

692
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,080
So that was, that's one thing that because our cost basis for that has changed.

693
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,520
Like you said, short term and long term, like when you're like long term, we need to be

694
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,520
up.

695
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Like as long as it's, we know that above this dollar value, it's profitable.

696
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,640
So you may as well do it.

697
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,320
Don't worry about the cost basis too much.

698
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,280
And then you like, when you change that and you see how it changes the numbers, you're

699
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,280
like, well, yes and no.

700
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,840
Yes and no.

701
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:26,840
Right.

702
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:27,840
Right.

703
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,720
You know, yes, you're still making money.

704
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:36,480
But when you aggregate like, whatever it is, like a 5k difference, four months after

705
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,120
your company has 20 grand more in the bank.

706
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:44,960
And you're like, oh, that's potentially the difference between seeing out another X months,

707
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,000
you know, when, if and when this ends or changes or whatever, that's runway.

708
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,000
Right.

709
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,080
And that's a huge difference.

710
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,920
Like, and you just, yeah, like you say, with your running around killing a service off,

711
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,080
like you multiply that by a bunch of stuff and it is really surprising.

712
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,440
But you know, like the second you've done it, right, you're just going to, as a business

713
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,760
go out the next day and start accruing more of those costs again.

714
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,760
No.

715
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,760
No, never again.

716
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:08,760
If I could know.

717
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,040
So let me hit you with some more quick math, right?

718
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,320
Just back on profitability.

719
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,720
So let's say, for example, I run 13 networks at the moment, right?

720
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:21,440
I conservatively run networks.

721
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,280
I don't just jump on them all.

722
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,800
So I resemble that a murder mark.

723
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,800
Yeah.

724
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,000
I'm middle of the road, to be honest.

725
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,680
So I have 13.

726
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:38,120
There is four networks that have a TVL above 200,000.

727
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:45,400
But let's make a assumption that they all have a TVL of 200,000, right?

728
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,720
Which they don't.

729
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,920
So say we're making 125 bucks per validator.

730
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,840
That's 1625 bucks a month, right?

731
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:56,840
My U.S.D.

732
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,840
This is all U.S.D.

733
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:00,840
Okay.

734
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,000
My infrastructure cost is probably $10 an hour.

735
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,280
Plus my infrastructure cost is five and a half grand a month.

736
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,920
So it's a loss of $4 grand a month.

737
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:20,320
I was looking at my TVL because I've been using behind the scenes.

738
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,560
So this is kind of embarrassing to admit, to be honest.

739
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,520
But I'm turning into a little of a Zabix person.

740
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,120
You use it once and you're hooked.

741
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,120
Oh, fucking.

742
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,760
Well, we use Grafana per meters for everything, right?

743
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,800
And we use Grafana very heavily for trending and analysis and other types of things, which

744
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:39,800
is really good.

745
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,000
I know what thing it gets those tools.

746
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,280
I love it.

747
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,360
And I love the timeline-based stuff and all that stuff.

748
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,000
But for server-meat management, I want to know the distempts.

749
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,800
And I want to be able to get alerts based off of things dropping out of H&A proxy.

750
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:59,480
To write each of those in Grafana and the alerting there is a bit of a pain in the ass.

751
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,560
And it's kind of shit.

752
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,840
And so Null is part of his, can I say this?

753
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:05,840
Is that okay?

754
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:13,360
That part of his holiday, a couple of us jumped in to be able to monitor some of King Node's

755
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,120
infrastructure to make sure that if something exploded while he was gone, which nothing

756
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,320
did because why would it?

757
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,520
But if something exploded while he was gone, there was at least another eye on it because

758
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,760
he's going to be out of pocket.

759
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,760
It's fair, right?

760
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,840
And we'll just step in like last minute to say this whatever.

761
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,960
And the signing infrastructure was separate, we were talking about nodes to be able to,

762
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,640
you know, last minute upgrade, something happens, blah, blah, blah.

763
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,880
Like what we talked about before is a 24-7 job, right?

764
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,240
It's pain in the fucking ass.

765
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:42,760
And so you can't go on a walkabout in the middle of an island in the winter for some

766
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:43,760
reason.

767
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:44,760
For a week.

768
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:50,240
For a week, you literally cannot do that and be 100% disconnected without some help.

769
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:51,440
Like it's impossible to do.

770
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:56,160
Like I have a go bag that goes with me everywhere because I got a fucking just in case, right?

771
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,680
Everybody, the holiday is carried go bags.

772
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,800
Anyway, so I'm watching all of Null's Zabax infrastructure and I was like, all right,

773
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,200
some of this is pretty cool.

774
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,880
Like some of it's very 1980s, like in terms of management, but some of that you need.

775
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,200
Like I want to be able to look at distempts and I want to be able to look at smart information

776
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,480
and I want to be able to, those types of things.

777
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,080
And so I'm looking at one of his structures here, which is a TVL piece and I'm recognizing

778
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,800
that I think I have one Cosmos chain that's above your number.

779
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,600
Like, why am I an Evamos?

780
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,040
I'm a number 100.

781
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080
My TVL says $2,800 on this dashboard.

782
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,640
What the fuck am I doing in that chain?

783
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,280
That chain is a pain in the ass.

784
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,640
Oh, is this you pulled in my template?

785
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:35,640
Yeah.

786
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:36,640
Yeah.

787
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:37,640
Like why the fuck am I in this?

788
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:38,840
Like what am I doing with this chain?

789
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:39,920
Like it's not going anywhere.

790
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,120
Like it's missing like crazy.

791
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,880
I just had a like, there's no, you can't state sync it.

792
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,160
There's a 300 gig snapshot.

793
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,600
Like it's just losing money every month.

794
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,360
Like what am I doing with this thing?

795
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,760
And it fucking destroys drives too.

796
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:56,760
It does.

797
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,640
There's a couple of networks in here that just fucking destroy drives.

798
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,480
I had actually, I had to cancel that drive because both drives had a 200% on the utilization

799
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,560
number and they're both overheating like crazy.

800
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,840
It was a fucking mess of literally zero transaction blocks.

801
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,200
Someone running a website can have that server now.

802
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,200
Fuck them.

803
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,200
Yeah, they're gonna get it.

804
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:21,440
They're gonna look at what the hell this is going to be like in 2014 when probably

805
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:27,240
the last time I ran any bare metal like turn off the last box in 2014 and it was after

806
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:32,280
I think 2013 was where we had some drive failures on stuff that I was like, I've just brought

807
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:37,000
up these bare metal rack stuff literally just ordered them from the provider Bitcoin minus

808
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,000
that was it.

809
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,000
I bet I was getting fucking sure it was.

810
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,000
Yeah.

811
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:45,200
It was just DJs, but just a different generation of DJs and I'm just there trying to run some

812
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,800
data pipelines for the government.

813
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,640
It's like, well, everything's fucking failing.

814
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,960
The hard drives are failing, the fucking things going down and we need to run the website

815
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:53,960
on a different box.

816
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:54,960
It won't run.

817
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:55,960
What is this?

818
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,920
I don't want to enjoy some of this stuff.

819
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,640
We have like time traveled in the validated stack.

820
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,920
We have like multiple levels of redundancy right?

821
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:12,080
And when my drives get the nuke stage, I just let them eat until they go, but I haven't

822
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,960
lost the drive yet and some of them have gotten pretty fucking bad.

823
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,680
So I just want also I want to get rid of this server, I had another one that was like kind

824
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,680
of had some room.

825
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,680
I was like, I want to get rid of this thing.

826
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,000
I guess I want to get the cost out of it too.

827
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,600
Like I think I was spending $200 a month on it most or something.

828
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,040
Like what am I doing?

829
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:33,680
Yeah, what we run a so our free Evmos RPC just gets beat the fuck up as well.

830
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,520
I don't know what people are doing with that thing, but it gets beat up and it like resets

831
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:39,520
a lot.

832
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,520
I don't know why.

833
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,840
I mean, I don't care because it's a free RPC.

834
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,760
Would it be like it like the like the service reboots?

835
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,280
Yeah, the service reboots.

836
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,640
Because you know, you would have seen like from my monitoring there, you get like a restart

837
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:53,640
alone.

838
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:54,640
Yeah.

839
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:55,640
Yeah.

840
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,000
So usually get a restart and then kind of catching up alert in like early in the morning.

841
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,200
Yeah, but it doesn't.

842
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,720
I turn that off to come through to page duty.

843
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,360
Yeah, who cares?

844
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,360
Right.

845
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:06,360
Yeah.

846
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,360
Yeah.

847
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,640
It's like page duty is like send everything except free RPC.

848
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:15,600
It's free baby.

849
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,600
Deal with it.

850
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,400
Hey, so let's let's let's have a topic swing.

851
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,360
Hey, yeah, enough about that.

852
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:30,320
Our two our two viewers are here for the news.

853
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,440
So thanks, Rama again for the news topics for the week.

854
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,440
I know you've been chomping at the bit waiting for us to get to them and stop talking about

855
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,880
stupid validators.

856
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:41,880
Shit.

857
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,680
Before we get to the news, I was born in the chat.

858
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,240
Name the classic meme for those of you listening later on podcast players.

859
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:54,360
You're gonna have to go to YouTube to participate in this particular game.

860
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,440
So name the classic meme and about to throw up an emoji.

861
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:58,440
Oh, sorry.

862
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:05,360
Was that old website that used to send people when you didn't like them?

863
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,360
All right.

864
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,360
Yeah.

865
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,360
I can't.

866
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,040
I don't remember.

867
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,560
Don't name it because then other people can't play along.

868
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,000
No, if you got it, it was an awful it was an awful thing.

869
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,000
Is it still around?

870
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,000
It must be still around.

871
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Oh, yeah.

872
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,000
Is it?

873
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,280
So I can mirror it's different different website.

874
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,800
Where did that come from?

875
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,800
Why?

876
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,480
Did you just randomly think of that?

877
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:30,480
You're like, I have a donut.

878
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,880
I quite see defy anyway.

879
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,280
So we'll come back to that later.

880
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,280
Yeah.

881
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:36,600
It's now time for the drill of the week.

882
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,600
Oh, yeah.

883
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:38,600
What was that?

884
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,680
Not the answer in the right answer.

885
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,800
So no, is your turn this week?

886
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:43,800
Say when?

887
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,920
Nope, that is not the answer.

888
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:46,920
That is the other one.

889
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,200
I was thinking of when, when, when, when, when, when you are in the middle, you're in

890
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,080
the section, I know that's where a toilet.

891
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,080
Perfect.

892
00:43:55,080 --> 00:44:02,720
The left page or right page, right hand page middle, middle, the third one, the third one.

893
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:06,040
Okay.

894
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:11,280
The toilet feeler ruins another public restroom with his grubby hands.

895
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,280
The toilet feeler.

896
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,280
Is that an implement?

897
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,280
Maybe it's a person.

898
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,440
I think it's a person because he has grubby hands apparently.

899
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:20,920
Why do they have grubby hands?

900
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,160
Who's a toilet feeling?

901
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,240
Toilets, I suppose.

902
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,400
That's just simply in the Stray Joe pile.

903
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,400
Love it.

904
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:29,400
Yeah.

905
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,120
Did I ever send you that, that video where it's like from the drill book?

906
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:39,040
Like, I come up with the second drill book where it's like Mr. Awesome King of the Universe

907
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,040
or whatever it's called.

908
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:47,400
Somebody's got the AI M&M to read out one of the stories from the book.

909
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,320
It's fucking great because they've just put the, they've just got the AI M&M to read it

910
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,960
out and they've just kind of loosely put it on the grid of, I think it might be on the

911
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,840
real Slim Shady.

912
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,360
Because some of the one-liners are so stupid, it just sort of has this brilliant elegance

913
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,960
to it where it's just like this man saw that I was not to be fucking taken seriously and

914
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,000
stuff but it's like an M&M's voice.

915
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,960
It's just, I try and find the link for the YouTube.

916
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,400
Anyway, so, no, you can go back to the news now.

917
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,200
I'm sorry for interrupting you.

918
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,280
I mean, it is like the seventh time you've interrupted me.

919
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,080
I didn't feel like you're sorry at all.

920
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,320
If it makes you feel better, one day.

921
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,320
They regrets.

922
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,760
When Rama was on last week, we interrupted the shit out of him too.

923
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:38,760
Oh, yeah.

924
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:39,760
Yeah, we did.

925
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:40,760
Yeah, yeah.

926
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,560
Had it wrong ago.

927
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,480
He's like one of three listening now.

928
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,000
Yeah, he's not really, he doesn't really take care of plants at all, but other than

929
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,600
that, like it was a pretty good episode.

930
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,160
He doesn't take care of what?

931
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,720
His plants are all dead.

932
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:53,720
Oh, right.

933
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:57,600
Behind him, it's all like just empty flower pots everywhere.

934
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,960
He does, however, take exceptional care of.

935
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,960
He's a little one.

936
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,480
We talked about that.

937
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,400
We did talk.

938
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,800
I can tell you the close to the show.

939
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,640
But he did, we did talk about that.

940
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:18,640
I think only part of the law, actually, I think we determined it was only like the front.

941
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,600
If you're just in it, representing, you don't have to care about the fucking back.

942
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,600
Yeah, you fucked the back.

943
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:25,600
I agree.

944
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,600
Doesn't matter.

945
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,760
You got to cut the checker pattern and everything in the front lawn.

946
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,240
Like I've seen photos of it.

947
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:33,520
It'll give you like a dad job for sure.

948
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:34,520
That's what he said.

949
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:35,520
He didn't show us.

950
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,880
Well, he was going to actually walk around the house, but then I think we got distracted

951
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,200
by reading the news.

952
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,600
But please go ahead.

953
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,240
Oh, you made Rama read the news last night?

954
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:46,680
Yeah, that's why we had him on because we don't want to, because we don't understand

955
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,680
any of it.

956
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,440
So that was kind of the idea.

957
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,560
That's why he said good luck on this one because honestly, this news item, this isn't

958
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,560
the second one here, that row number three.

959
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,560
I read it four times.

960
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,320
I have no idea what the fuck he's talking about.

961
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,320
It was like us.

962
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,720
It was a sepcus type of situation where I had no idea.

963
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:04,720
The first one is a good one though.

964
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:05,720
You should read that one.

965
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:06,720
Okay.

966
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:07,720
Yeah.

967
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:08,720
Well, here we go.

968
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:15,720
In Rama's words, sad day for Cosmos as its largest public commons chain, Kanto, announces

969
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,560
its migrating to a polygon valideum.

970
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,440
Not surprisingly, the token pumps 13% on the announcement they're leaving Cosmos.

971
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,760
Is this one of the, I mean, we've had a lot of chains that have been migrating to Tenor

972
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:29,760
Mint, right?

973
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,480
Like DYDX and we've had all these different types of things that are moving towards this

974
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:34,480
tool set.

975
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,280
Is this one of the first ones that's moving away?

976
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,440
I can't think of any other ones that have been really migrating away from Tenor Mint.

977
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,480
I think some NFT projects have, but not necessarily chains.

978
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,560
But L ones as it was.

979
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:47,560
Yeah.

980
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,720
I mean, I assume this is, I didn't really, I didn't read much about this.

981
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:53,440
I assume this is investment based.

982
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,840
Like, is it technology based or is it like somebody rolled up and said, hey, we want

983
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,280
this, we want this project.

984
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,760
So therefore we're going to back up.

985
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:05,520
I would suspect that their token is not going great.

986
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:13,320
And I would suspect that they have inferred that that is due to the ecosystem, not because

987
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,320
they've got a network with a shit token.

988
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,320
So this is, and Romer says, this is the first chain they're leaving because Evmo's close

989
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,200
source licensed their product.

990
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,640
I do remember this being pretty much like a fork out of Evmo.

991
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:32,280
So that means that this team is now responsible for basically rebuilding Kanto as an EVM compatible

992
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,480
chain on Polygon.

993
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,000
Or maybe they're for which is already an EVM L2.

994
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,000
Right.

995
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:44,600
Well, presumably they're just basically going to fucking either fork or launch on that.

996
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,720
Well, it's just a contract thing.

997
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:47,720
Right.

998
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:48,720
Exactly.

999
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:49,720
Yeah.

1000
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:50,720
Well, it'll be an L2.

1001
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,560
So it is a chain, but it's a chain that then talks, that then rolls the transactions back

1002
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:55,560
up.

1003
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:56,560
Right.

1004
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,960
So they are presumably going to run that chain just so they can tell everybody to redeploy

1005
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,520
their smart contracts.

1006
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:08,960
Or I guess they'll work out a way of translating the state into a Genesis state and then just

1007
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,480
start the party up again on a chain.

1008
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,840
Kanto is just a general purpose EVM chain.

1009
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:15,840
Right.

1010
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:16,840
Yeah, exactly.

1011
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,340
So they're just looking for an EVM basically.

1012
00:49:18,340 --> 00:49:24,120
They're looking for a token they control on a thing that's making blocks that is EVM.

1013
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,920
So both of them need to make sense.

1014
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:34,680
So both Rama and Ryan Sean Adams said the largest public commons chain from Cosmos.

1015
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,880
Do you know what that definition means?

1016
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,280
What is a public commons chain?

1017
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:45,600
That means that that's what is at the top of their website and it's what they put in

1018
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:54,080
the email when they email people and nobody has fact checked that Kanto is a shit chain.

1019
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,080
How is it a public comm...

1020
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,800
Wouldn't Juno be the largest public commons chain?

1021
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:02,600
Juno would be the only public commons chain because it actually doesn't have an ownership

1022
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,040
structure around it or a foundation.

1023
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,760
Rama says I stole Ryan's words for the meme.

1024
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:07,760
See, that's why...

1025
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,560
I'm actually here.

1026
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,040
It's a very large public commons chain.

1027
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,960
It's really not the largest public commons chain in the Cosmos, right?

1028
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:18,960
There's a...

1029
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,600
I'd say it's a very common chain, maybe.

1030
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:32,080
$200 million of Juno lost TVL would disagree about the idea that that is the largest public

1031
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:33,080
commons chain.

1032
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:38,440
Is there a chain even public commons if it hasn't had a full fucking...

1033
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:39,600
Plus you forked it.

1034
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:40,600
How do you fork...

1035
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:50,120
Yeah, if you haven't had a proletarian uprising, even a commons chain, bro.

1036
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:56,880
We've had an entire political cycle of destruction, like actual politics.

1037
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:05,640
If you haven't had a smart contract to remove funds from a maybe exchange, maybe whale stealing

1038
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,320
airdrop wallet, then is it really a public commons chain?

1039
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:10,320
This is Juno.

1040
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,800
I'm just trying to figure out what a fucking proletarian is.

1041
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,200
I'm going to be starting to write next month, you said, but so...

1042
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,200
You just need to come up with a...

1043
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:19,680
I just need a pithy title.

1044
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,560
I'll work on it.

1045
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:22,560
Hey, your thesis...

1046
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:23,560
We're going to work out together.

1047
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,080
Your thesis says I'm reading ahead to the next items.

1048
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,080
I'm not doing that.

1049
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,480
I'm still trying to figure out what a volidium is.

1050
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,120
It's not it.

1051
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,680
So it looks like...

1052
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,200
I don't know.

1053
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,440
I shouldn't have gone down there.

1054
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:45,240
Like the first thing I come across is like Polygon wants to go ZK and they're transitioning

1055
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:50,400
the chain to ZK EVM volidium.

1056
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,040
I'm just going to back out and read the next...

1057
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,200
Reverse, reverse, reverse.

1058
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,760
I'm going to get the brakes on that shit.

1059
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,280
Well, Adios can't tell.

1060
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,280
I guess...

1061
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,200
Did EVMOS start go up because now that...

1062
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,200
No, still down 6% today.

1063
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,200
Never mind.

1064
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,400
EVMOS is in a firm downward trend, I would say.

1065
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,440
It actually had a little bit of a pump this week or last week.

1066
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:15,440
I think it was...

1067
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,800
I think everything fucked the trend a little bit this week.

1068
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,280
Yeah, Juno too, right?

1069
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:20,280
Don't let them do it.

1070
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:27,120
Folks excited that Juno went up 60% from 1 cent per stop this week.

1071
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,120
1.5 cents.

1072
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,120
Now it's 1.9.

1073
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,120
Heal.

1074
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,120
No, 19 cents.

1075
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,120
Heal.

1076
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,120
19 cents.

1077
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:34,120
Heal.

1078
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:35,120
It's $44.

1079
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:36,120
That's okay.

1080
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,120
Heal it.

1081
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,120
Heal it.

1082
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,640
So I did a little bit of quick math before as you guys were talking about something completely

1083
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,280
fucking useless.

1084
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:52,560
And for Juno to ATH again at $40, it would be about a market cap of $4.5 billion.

1085
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:53,920
That should be fine.

1086
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,080
Which is like a top 20 fucking change.

1087
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,080
So that's the problem.

1088
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:01,720
What you're saying, could you do the same math for Stargaze, please?

1089
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:06,360
Because these two questions, I think, would determine whether or not we are on bond.

1090
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,360
Hold on.

1091
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:08,360
Stargaze.

1092
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:09,360
$0.50 was it?

1093
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:10,360
$0.50?

1094
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:11,360
Yes.

1095
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:12,360
$0.50?

1096
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,760
It hit $0.52 for a day or something like that.

1097
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,120
But I think I thought the real estate all the time high was like $0.45 or $0.44.

1098
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,000
We sold a bit of Stargaze at $0.50.

1099
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,000
Did you?

1100
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,000
Yeah.

1101
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,000
I held that in my hands.

1102
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,000
We sold more.

1103
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,520
I was holding on for $1.

1104
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:28,520
That was my thing.

1105
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,520
I was like, I'm selling all that stuff.

1106
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:30,520
I thought I was going to get $1.

1107
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:31,920
You know, it just goes to show what I fucking did.

1108
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,280
I was like, whoa, let's sell a bit.

1109
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:35,280
I was like, let's sell a bit.

1110
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,760
Cover our AWS bill for the first few months.

1111
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,960
But I think this has got runway.

1112
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,680
And then it starts to go down and I was just like, maybe we should sell a bit more because

1113
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,680
there's AWS bill that gets smaller.

1114
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,680
Maybe a little bit more.

1115
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:48,680
Maybe a little bit more.

1116
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:49,680
Maybe a bit more.

1117
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:50,680
Maybe a bit more.

1118
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,200
Maybe we're the reason it's going down.

1119
00:53:53,200 --> 00:54:00,280
I remember the phrase talking with you while I was getting a coffee on a Saturday morning

1120
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:06,520
about the half a million dollar airdrop problem that we had with the accountant.

1121
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,680
Which is no longer a problem.

1122
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,680
Well, yeah, the problem was it was all vested.

1123
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,120
So we weren't going to get it for whatever it was, X years.

1124
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,680
It was like, fuck, if we have to pay today's value, it's like half a million dollars.

1125
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,440
But what's it going to be worth in five years?

1126
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,480
It's like, well, it could be worth millions of dollars.

1127
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,520
It's like narrator.

1128
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:24,800
It was going to be worth.

1129
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:25,800
It was not.

1130
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,960
I guess it would be worth about $1,000 now.

1131
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,280
I don't even want to think about what we paid on that in tax.

1132
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,280
Best not to.

1133
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:35,760
You went some?

1134
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:43,040
It seems to be mainly the thing I've learned from going back through the books as I did

1135
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,960
them this week was the paper value.

1136
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,040
No, I've said that before.

1137
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,160
The paper value versus what's in the bank account at any given time in crypto is a widely

1138
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,160
divergent story.

1139
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,640
Like if the government ever came knocking and went, says that you've got four million

1140
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:04,400
dollars in assets, you'd be like, yes, which of our many shitcoins would you like?

1141
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,400
You can have a mole.

1142
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,080
Stargate would be about $1.2 billion at ATH again.

1143
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,080
Yeah.

1144
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:17,600
That thing with the shitcoin is that like, yeah, they're like, oh, you've got all this

1145
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,760
money and they're like, if you can sell it, you're going to have it.

1146
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:22,760
That's just it.

1147
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:23,760
I was trying.

1148
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:24,760
Okay.

1149
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,640
Hang on a second.

1150
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,720
Before I say this, I need to just...

1151
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:38,200
So I was talking to our accountants about this and I was like, well, hang on, doesn't

1152
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,480
liquidity come into it, right?

1153
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,760
Because there's no way we can actually sell any of this stuff.

1154
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,160
Even in this market, absolutely not.

1155
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,880
But even in the bull market, it will be really hard now in the cosmos to shift any serious

1156
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:52,880
number of tokens.

1157
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:59,080
Even the majority of positions where we have vested or compounded or anything like that,

1158
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:04,280
it's just like absolute fantasy to think that some of those tokens are going to get

1159
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:09,320
back to, especially some of the shitcoins that ended up at like $5, $10 or something

1160
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:10,320
like that.

1161
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:11,320
You're like, really?

1162
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,520
But hey, that's how it works anyway.

1163
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,280
So that's how it works.

1164
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:25,760
There is apparently a stress test going on at the moment on one of my tests.

1165
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,920
Secret chain number five.

1166
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:28,920
Yeah.

1167
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,440
Secret experiment number five.

1168
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,440
Secret experiment.

1169
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,480
Our other stress test, I think I canceled actually when we were getting prepped for.

1170
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,680
Everyone's like, ah, we're losing all the blocks on the chain that makes money.

1171
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:41,680
It's not that bad.

1172
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:42,680
Keeps us to maybe...

1173
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,120
Yeah, we realized that the other day, I was just like, oh, it's nearly time to do the

1174
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,920
really, really stressful thing where we all have to commission a bunch of servers and

1175
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,920
fuck around for four weeks.

1176
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:57,320
I was literally, I was researching for like three weeks on some fat daddy fucking bare

1177
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:02,200
metal, which I found a couple and then had some help in finding some other ones and had

1178
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,480
a plan for it something month to month.

1179
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:14,360
And I'm looking at those big old Epic 73, 73, 93, 74 EPs and 95, 74 EPs, which are basically

1180
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:20,560
like two or three AMD 7950s like joined together with like a terabyte of RAM.

1181
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:21,560
Yeah, maybe.

1182
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,560
This big dog type of things.

1183
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:24,560
Just for the hell of it.

1184
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,320
And that's about what I realized.

1185
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:34,880
It's just all PCI five and like just badass, like really fast things to really...

1186
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,280
For no reason, right?

1187
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,960
Like for no reason, for absolutely no...

1188
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,480
The thing is, you look at that, like in the last one of those stress tests, right, we

1189
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,800
spent in one month, we spent something like $16,000.

1190
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:52,600
We spent a huge amount on one rig on AWS to do that because we had to push the hardware

1191
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:53,600
requirements way up.

1192
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,320
It might even been more than $16,000.

1193
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:56,320
Mistake.

1194
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,760
So for this one, literally, I was trying to work out what to do and I was like, oh, we're

1195
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,360
going to have to do like a benchmarking, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1196
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:10,160
And then I went to our provider and looked through their bare metal catalog and went

1197
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:16,120
from the box that we're currently using for mainnet and then looked up a generation and

1198
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,000
then looked up the spec sheet and went, that one's four times as expensive.

1199
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,000
That would do.

1200
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:22,000
That'll be fine.

1201
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,000
No problem.

1202
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,600
It'll be fine because it's bare metal, it's going to be ready for one month.

1203
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,880
It doesn't matter how much you've crashed the hard drive.

1204
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,240
Bring it up, set it down.

1205
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,640
Turn that bad boy off.

1206
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:32,640
That's it.

1207
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:33,640
Tending everything.

1208
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:35,640
And then saying, thank you very much.

1209
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,000
12 drives and read zero.

1210
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:44,600
So, sir, I've been talking, well, I've actually mentioned to you that I'm looking at building

1211
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,600
some servers at the moment, right?

1212
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:47,600
Yes.

1213
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,440
And they're going to be Epic servers.

1214
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,440
And EPIC, EPYC.

1215
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,440
Or both.

1216
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:53,440
Really?

1217
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:54,440
Right?

1218
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,440
They'll be Epic as well.

1219
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,040
9004 series chips.

1220
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:04,840
And the drives I've been looking at for those, because this one needs quite a bit of NVME

1221
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:05,840
storage.

1222
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:06,840
Yes.

1223
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:11,360
And those 15 terabyte drives have a million IOPS, which is...

1224
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,000
They have a million IOPS?

1225
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,000
A million IOPS.

1226
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,120
Is that like, what is that?

1227
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,560
Like the speed of light on every single fucking thing?

1228
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,840
That is, you can write the whole drive and unwrite the whole drive real quick.

1229
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,520
Like just as many times as you want.

1230
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,680
How much is one of those drives?

1231
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:29,680
A few grand.

1232
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:31,680
Is it really a million IOPS?

1233
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:32,680
A million IOPS.

1234
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:38,120
Hey, and then when that chain goes to zero, you can have a really fucking clock.

1235
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,280
Your game might be really fast drives.

1236
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,320
Play Counter Strike at like a million FPS.

1237
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:48,480
Hey, I was talking the other day about how it'd be kind of cool to get back into, what's

1238
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,680
the online first person she is.

1239
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,680
I've got a game back right there.

1240
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,560
Yeah, I still do some shit.

1241
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,360
So let's do some quick calc.

1242
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:58,360
What?

1243
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,640
The most expensive thing in this server is drive drive.

1244
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:06,480
So if I get 15 of the 15 terabyte drives.

1245
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,680
15 of the 15 terabyte drives.

1246
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,680
Sorry, 12 of the...

1247
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:11,680
Holy shit.

1248
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:17,440
Oh, sorry, 15 is too many, but 12, that's a reasonable number.

1249
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,240
So that's a lot of money.

1250
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,000
I guess that's about, I guess, it's 18 grand a drive.

1251
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:29,880
So the server is going to be about 20 grand right?

1252
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:39,240
So at $125 a month, it'd only take 160 months for a...

1253
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:43,400
To recoup the cost of one of those drives or all those drives?

1254
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:48,960
One of those of the server to recoup the cost of the server at the current tick of a 200K

1255
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:49,960
TVL.

1256
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:56,840
So really, if I can summarize the last hour, Nile has spent an hour very vigorously and

1257
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:02,440
morally stably defending the position of why you need to keep a server on to basically

1258
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:08,040
present an hour of conclusions that suggest you should be turning off every validator

1259
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:13,560
that you currently run not shopping for $20,000 service.

1260
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:19,920
I do think that your idea of being able to move validators to the down under, that idea

1261
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:29,480
is a cool idea and there's not a lot of infrastructure that's run out of Australia.

1262
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:34,200
And I think in the grand scheme of things, it will make you absolutely nothing more and

1263
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,640
will probably make you lose more.

1264
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,720
It'll definitely make me lose more money.

1265
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:44,000
I think people love to talk that game and we have other partners who...

1266
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,360
And you have chains who really want to push towards decentralization.

1267
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:53,440
They want these nodes in Central Africa or they want it in South America or they want

1268
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,760
it in Central America or they want it in Australia.

1269
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,320
Difficult places to be able to host because of either infrastructure or just the speed

1270
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:01,960
of light.

1271
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:07,600
And I think those gains probably are less than the cost associated with those, unfortunately.

1272
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:17,480
So to match the bandwidth of all of my current dedicated bare metal, at an Australian data

1273
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:22,280
center would cost me about fucking eight grand a month.

1274
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,320
They have to run new fiber just for you.

1275
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:32,840
Like, well, no, we're gonna have to run a boat and drop this piece of glass.

1276
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:39,080
Double the fucking subterranean bandwidth.

1277
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:45,560
40% is going to Kig nodes and the other percent is going to Team Station.

1278
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:46,560
Okay.

1279
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:47,560
I'm not gonna advocate for AWS.

1280
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,520
We've been there, we've done that, I was wrong, whatever.

1281
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:51,520
Let's move on.

1282
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,880
Well, we still run AWS for some stuff to be fair.

1283
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,440
Actually, for things like signers, really good idea still.

1284
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,600
Anyway, I would run AWS if I could figure it out at all.

1285
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:02,600
We run one signer.

1286
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,320
We run one signer at AWS too.

1287
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:05,320
There's nothing wrong with that.

1288
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,360
I think it's redundant.

1289
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:09,680
Somebody else is standing up all night watching that shit, right?

1290
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:10,680
Exactly.

1291
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:17,400
I think if Cosmos were making more money, we'd basically complete our move from, like, TMK

1292
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,920
has worked for us, so whatever, man.

1293
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:27,440
But I think in a super ideal Cosmos is absolutely smashing it set up, we'd finish our migration

1294
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,400
to, we've played around with Horcrux but never migrated to it fully.

1295
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:37,160
We just have three signers in different AWS regions, maybe one in GCP, YOLO, and then

1296
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,320
just never worry about it again, right?

1297
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:44,160
Just bring out the odd one, bin the odd one, just on a rolling basis, right?

1298
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:53,520
But there's a big gap of options, the gulf of different options between fully AWS and

1299
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,480
this insanity that Niles talking about with having to run your own undecided cables, and

1300
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:03,360
I know a bit of exaggeration, but even so, like, the reason that this whole business

1301
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,120
is difficult is because you can't ever plan as a business your income, right?

1302
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:12,400
You have no idea what you'll be making in a month, two months, three months, six months,

1303
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:13,600
a year, right?

1304
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,720
And we've all had the thing where people try to market their chain to you, right, as a

1305
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:26,600
validator that has some notion of professionalism around them or some whatever it is that means

1306
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:30,720
that people sometimes will approach you and be like, we're interested in you guys being

1307
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:31,720
part of our genesis.

1308
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:36,520
You know, all of that marketing and everything, like you get that as a validator too, where

1309
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:41,960
everybody is, especially at the moment, to a certain extent for a lot of chains, like

1310
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,640
it's shilling them to you, right?

1311
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:49,640
But in amongst all of this, like, there's this question of like, well, yeah, back to

1312
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:55,080
I get Nile, you know, you've got an ongoing, you know, never turn off, especially not in

1313
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,080
a bear market.

1314
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:00,760
So you can just ignore this bit because you obviously hate making money.

1315
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:07,200
So there's a question of like, well, you should probably actually optimize for infrastructure

1316
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:12,920
providers and infrastructure and build your entire stack as a business in such a way that,

1317
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:18,440
look, if you do find that everything does actually pretty much go to zero, and you really are

1318
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:24,800
like, it ain't getting up lads that you can on a three month time scale, sort of reduce

1319
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:29,560
your infrastructure costs and your core business costs as close to zero yourself as possible,

1320
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,280
apart from, you know, totally fixed costs.

1321
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:36,200
I don't know if you have like phone contracts and offices and stuff, you know, that kind

1322
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,520
of normal stuff, right?

1323
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:42,840
But that's the big attraction, I think, always was for us to a certain extent for AWS was

1324
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:47,080
like, well, look, if everything does prove to be very, very ephemeral, well, we're not

1325
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,720
sitting here, right, right.

1326
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,080
I mean, in America, you can write down the servers in a different way.

1327
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,200
So it's very tax and advantage, right?

1328
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:56,200
But you can't.

1329
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,200
I don't want to be sitting around, I mean, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody.

1330
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,280
Where we're going back to doing more traditional corporate consulting, and we're just got loads

1331
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:07,640
of loads of tin sitting around that we're having to do asset reconciliation or we'll

1332
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,640
be like, this tin is useless to us.

1333
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:10,640
What the fuck?

1334
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,120
Well, you really need to be making money to be able to write something.

1335
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,080
I was going to say, you don't run a business.

1336
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,520
You really don't run a business based off of like, I've said this past, you know, you

1337
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:24,040
try not to run a business based off of tax consequences associated to losses.

1338
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:29,080
Like, like that's not really the way it's more carrying forward losses than what is

1339
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,480
getting a tax write off.

1340
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,040
So I write down the cost of servers.

1341
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,840
Yeah, but writing them down is a cost.

1342
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,720
I mean, the depreciation is against your balance sheet.

1343
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,280
But if your balance sheet is already negative, it just makes it more negative.

1344
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:43,280
It doesn't fuck it.

1345
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:44,280
It doesn't matter.

1346
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,280
Yeah, you have to make money and then you can write it.

1347
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:47,280
Yeah.

1348
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:52,440
Well, because we're a business, we still actually astonishingly do make money.

1349
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:58,880
But you know, honestly, to that point, like we used to run, like I used to have like 12

1350
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,320
month contracts at a bunch of different agreements for servers and things like that.

1351
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,840
And all those are month, month to month.

1352
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,400
Like I'm trying to get, I'm even willing to pay more month to month just to try to get

1353
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:14,520
out of long term contracts because you have no, without that visibility and without any

1354
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:19,000
sort of before when we had like some sign, we had growth and you had like, at least

1355
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,800
things were moving at a decent positive.

1356
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,400
If you look, if you step back, right, it was obviously ups and downs, but you had like

1357
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:30,000
at least a general growth aspect of things you would say, this is willing to, I'm willing

1358
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:35,080
to take a 20% discount on this, the set of this infrastructure because of this, because

1359
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,280
of the contract, but I'm away from all that.

1360
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:41,000
It's all now, everything, everything can go away tomorrow and I'm willing for it to

1361
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,960
go away tomorrow.

1362
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:50,080
So just, just for the listeners though, we're not crying poor, all of us here run at a profit,

1363
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:58,520
probably not from validating, but you know, we're not going to go away tomorrow.

1364
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,280
So don't be worried about that.

1365
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:01,280
The listener.

1366
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:07,760
Well, I think it's that thing of like, you're all, a lot of what you have to do in any market

1367
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:13,000
or any kind of field is to find, you do a thing initially, right?

1368
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:17,520
To learn the market and to network and meet people and, you know, get your feet under

1369
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:22,800
the table and then eventually you find out what your actual value add is or the thing

1370
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,600
people actually need and you do that instead.

1371
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:32,320
And yeah, to some extent, I think, yeah, less so now because I think for us that certainly

1372
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:38,280
became smart contract engineering, which unfortunately now is not, there's nothing really that's profitable

1373
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:44,280
about that for us and the way we operate, which is a bit of a shame.

1374
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,960
And so we're in a bit of an impasse with that, I suppose, where I've been at whatever.

1375
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:53,160
But for other people, the example would be getting to validating sell RPCs, right, which

1376
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:57,880
can be pretty profitable if you have people who want to pay for that.

1377
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,480
Well, it's another thing you can do.

1378
01:09:01,480 --> 01:09:07,240
That's you learn validation network markets of different people, run institutional nodes.

1379
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,680
That's a perfectly valid different market strategy, I suppose.

1380
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:19,440
The King blockchain PTYLTD, we supplement our validate losses by selling feet picks

1381
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:26,200
on only fans.

1382
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,080
I hope of your significant other.

1383
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:36,040
We found our value in our product markets.

1384
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:37,040
Validatorfeatpicks.com.

1385
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:42,040
Actually, what?

1386
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:43,040
Yeah.

1387
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:44,040
Yeah.

1388
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:48,960
We've done all right with RPC nodes and other types of things.

1389
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:55,880
But even that, I don't consider that a revenue that keeps the lights on.

1390
01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:00,000
It's not revenue that I think is, it's not life changing revenue in any sort of way.

1391
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,720
And it's not even a revenue that I would look at like an executive type role and say, this

1392
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:07,720
is worth it.

1393
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:08,720
That's not worth it.

1394
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:09,720
Let me rephrase that.

1395
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:16,440
It's not an executive type of role where you would say, it's a crazy amount of revenue

1396
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:19,680
that makes it a slam dunk.

1397
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,840
It's still like anything else.

1398
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,800
And even with some of those types of projects, like we talked about Validator, some of the

1399
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:31,680
stress associated RPC is even higher because you are providing a service that really can

1400
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:36,440
have very little or zero downtime.

1401
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:37,440
So Validator can miss blocks.

1402
01:10:37,440 --> 01:10:38,440
It's not the end of the world.

1403
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:41,160
There's redundancy built in this network.

1404
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:46,600
RPC is going down that chain is like depending on what that RPC is used for and the importance

1405
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:50,480
of that and kind of the project, that chain is dead.

1406
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:53,760
And that means that that's a user experience issue.

1407
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,920
That means people get frustrated with that.

1408
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:00,560
And that has a lot, honestly, has a lot more impact, I think, than a single Validator missing

1409
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:02,760
blocks like Google's this shit.

1410
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:06,320
And so some of the stress associated to that, like I feel more stress from the RPC side than

1411
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:07,320
doing the Validator side.

1412
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:08,320
There's no doubt about it.

1413
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:10,640
Yeah, you don't want to let your customers down.

1414
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:11,640
Fuck no.

1415
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:17,160
Let's, let's, let's, and Ram is getting upset and I don't want to lose him.

1416
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,440
So he works for us.

1417
01:11:20,440 --> 01:11:21,440
Yeah.

1418
01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:24,760
I feel like we work for him now.

1419
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:25,760
This is another one of those.

1420
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,400
Actually, have we paid him yet?

1421
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:28,920
Somebody more than they need you.

1422
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:30,920
We haven't really paid him yet.

1423
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:31,920
Yeah, I know.

1424
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,840
I don't really mean to be like he spends time writing this stuff.

1425
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:36,840
That's a partnership.

1426
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:37,840
Yeah, it's a partnership.

1427
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:38,840
Yeah, no, I agree.

1428
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:39,840
Okay.

1429
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,440
He feels like I can feel the vibe in the room.

1430
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:45,360
That's what that emoji was earlier.

1431
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:46,360
Is he DM?

1432
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:51,040
He's not the ring of partnership.

1433
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,280
So I'm going to start shit, you asshole.

1434
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,920
I'm going to go all the way to the bottom to something that I can actually fucking understand

1435
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,840
more than what the other two are.

1436
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:00,880
The other one is an idea.

1437
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:07,040
So CircleRug's noble by launching their native stable coin issuance on a polka dot parachain

1438
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:12,360
asset hub, which can be transferred to other parachains via its XCM protocol.

1439
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,800
I don't see how that's a total rug.

1440
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,560
Isn't that a different ecosystem?

1441
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:18,560
I thought so too.

1442
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:19,560
Yeah, I read that.

1443
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:20,560
That's one you didn't understand.

1444
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,360
That was the one I didn't understand.

1445
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:29,640
Injective announces the launch of in EVM, hoping to tap into eq liquidity and developers

1446
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:35,600
by enabling them to deploy applications on injective rollups.

1447
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:40,200
This will enable ETH, the Cosmos Composability via IBC.

1448
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:41,200
Isn't that composable?

1449
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:42,200
I don't know.

1450
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:43,200
Is it?

1451
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:44,200
I know.

1452
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:47,200
Well, composable is polka dot.

1453
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,200
I don't know.

1454
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,480
I just want to observe that.

1455
01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:59,200
I don't think we have it on anymore, but the Rainier Wolf Castle, that's the joke.

1456
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:07,000
The thing with the CircleRug's Noble, isn't it a different ecosystem?

1457
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,520
That's the joke.

1458
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,560
It's a joke.

1459
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:18,640
Something else that happened in injective this week that I, you know, is another talking

1460
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:19,960
point.

1461
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,880
So they have a government's proposal at the moment.

1462
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:29,240
Okay, let me start, they have a trade and earn program, right?

1463
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:33,360
And it's like something to do with, you know, you do some trading, you earn points, and

1464
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:38,800
then you get like, you know, rewarded based on the amount of points you accrue over the

1465
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:39,800
month.

1466
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:46,720
And then there are some wallets that are just like wash trading with each other to accrue

1467
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,840
all the points and then get paid the rewards.

1468
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:57,520
Which when you read that there's a program to incentivize trading, you would assume that

1469
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,320
that's exactly what people are going to do.

1470
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:01,320
It's just Steve.

1471
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:02,320
It's all Steve.

1472
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:09,480
But anyway, there's a proposal out to nullify the points on those addresses, which I found

1473
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:12,640
quite interesting.

1474
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:20,160
Anyway, so this number two, have you like, does it make any sense to you at all?

1475
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,840
No, I read it a fucking lot in here at times.

1476
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:24,840
I read this.

1477
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:25,840
I can read it.

1478
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:26,840
I can go for this one.

1479
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:27,840
Good.

1480
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:28,840
Do you get it?

1481
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:33,160
Eclipse FND announces they've managed to get the power ranges together and have morphed

1482
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:39,680
into Dino Megazord, utilizing as much of the crypto technology as possible to ensure it

1483
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,360
is as hard as possible to build.

1484
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:47,120
So they're using Ether's settlement layer, execution via Solana's VM, Celestia for data

1485
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:52,240
availability, whatever the fuck that means, and risk ZK proofs.

1486
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:58,880
And additionally, for all to the Spaniard winner, Sepkus will be marketing, will be

1487
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:04,760
the spokesperson for the protocol because winners use Eclipse FND.

1488
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,520
That's going to be there.

1489
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:10,960
So I feel like this is the one.

1490
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:15,080
The question, sorry, but I think you're having is, am I a winner?

1491
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:20,760
You feel insecure about whether or not you can even use Eclipse FND.

1492
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:22,440
No matter what it is, that's not important.

1493
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:23,440
You want to be a part of this.

1494
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:26,360
You're already sold, but you're like, am I cool enough?

1495
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:27,360
Am I a winner?

1496
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:33,280
And no, you need to go into the bathroom, look into the mirror and say, I am a winner.

1497
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:38,120
And then immediately get your credit out and go and buy some fucking tokens as shit as

1498
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:39,120
it is.

1499
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:43,120
And then you're going to take a video of what you just said and take it into the mirror

1500
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,120
and you telling me that I'm a winner.

1501
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,960
It feels more like endearing.

1502
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:52,240
Now this Eclipse FND sounds to me like somebody sitting in the back.

1503
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:53,240
No, you know this.

1504
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,720
What's the, what's the, we're already winners of this podcast.

1505
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,080
What's the line for Wolf of Wall Street?

1506
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,840
I don't ask you to judge me on my winners.

1507
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:07,280
I ask you to judge me on my losers because there are so few.

1508
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,360
My account is wish that was true of our fucking business strategy.

1509
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,480
I just saw a few of them.

1510
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:18,880
So Eclipse FND seems to me like one guy sitting in a very large warehouse on a seat in the

1511
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:25,880
middle of said warehouse, making like one of those quilted fucking blankets, like sewing

1512
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:29,200
it together with all the little squares of pictures of houses and shit.

1513
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,200
Hey, a quilt you mean?

1514
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:34,960
Like a quilt blanket also does a quilt.

1515
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:35,960
Like a quilt.

1516
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:40,240
You know, a quilt could just be like a big piece of fabric, right?

1517
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,760
I'm talking about the little square ones where they take like a little square of a house

1518
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,800
and a little square of a dog and a little square of a fucking garden.

1519
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,960
And then they sew it all together and that's your life.

1520
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:51,600
I think that is a definition of a quilt.

1521
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:52,600
Yeah, a quilt.

1522
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:53,600
Yeah.

1523
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:54,600
They're quilting.

1524
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:55,600
Eclipse FND.

1525
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,000
I think quilt might be combined actually by the, by the shape, by the triangle.

1526
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,240
Cause if you buy one from a shop, right, it obviously doesn't have like your grandma's

1527
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,240
sewn in a bunch of stuff to it.

1528
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,040
But it still has those triangular pockets, doesn't it?

1529
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:08,040
Not triangular square.

1530
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,040
They're fucking squares on there.

1531
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:11,040
They just on there too.

1532
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:12,040
What the fuck?

1533
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:13,040
What the fuck?

1534
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:14,040
What is this?

1535
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:15,040
What is this?

1536
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:16,040
What does this shape?

1537
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:17,040
What does it look like?

1538
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:18,040
It looks like that.

1539
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:22,280
This is, this is going to be in six months time when I have my, my, my transition Viva.

1540
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:24,800
They're going to be like, final question.

1541
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,880
Good, good job on the cryptography.

1542
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:28,880
What is this?

1543
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:29,880
What is this?

1544
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,520
We're wearing our quilt this morning when we were just thinking about getting up and

1545
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,440
coming into the, doing your Viva.

1546
01:17:34,440 --> 01:17:37,800
We were like, let's just ask somebody who should know about that.

1547
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,360
It's a, it's a fucking, it's a rhombus.

1548
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:41,360
It's a rhombus.

1549
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:46,600
I remember this from the Eclipse FND fucking white paper.

1550
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:49,880
It's a two dimensional Tesseract.

1551
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:50,880
It's a rhombus.

1552
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,680
It is actually a two dimensional Tesseract.

1553
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,560
Well, that's true.

1554
01:17:57,560 --> 01:17:58,560
I read this X, Y, Z.

1555
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,880
Three men, David, says not, not all quilts are patchwork.

1556
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:02,880
The CEO's right.

1557
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:03,880
Is that true?

1558
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:05,880
Anyway, I read this.

1559
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,560
The thing is like the squares put all together.

1560
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:09,560
That's quilt.

1561
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:10,560
I think that's a quilt.

1562
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:11,560
All right.

1563
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:12,560
I did read this.

1564
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:17,760
I did really have to be like a fucking scrapbook is what I'm saying.

1565
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:28,080
I did read this, this tweet and also the follow on mirror.xyz long 25 page kind of poster on

1566
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:29,080
this.

1567
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:30,080
And I, it was so fucking degen.

1568
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,480
I felt like I need to take a shower after reading this.

1569
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:34,720
Like it was, it was.

1570
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:39,240
Can you, can you believe that we're up to episode 80 of this shit?

1571
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,840
What are we going to do episode 100?

1572
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:42,960
That's the big question.

1573
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:43,960
Shut it down.

1574
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:44,960
Turn it around.

1575
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,080
Go on to 99.

1576
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:48,080
Straight to the end.

1577
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:49,080
Straight to the zero.

1578
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:50,080
Straight in the wooden crate.

1579
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,280
Straight to the end of the house.

1580
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:53,280
We should.

1581
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:54,280
We should.

1582
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:58,400
At what point do we start to hit like that parabolic curve like followers and shit?

1583
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:02,520
Because they say like your first couple of years, you know, your first year you have like,

1584
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,920
you know, 10 viewers and your second year you have like 20 viewers and your fourth year

1585
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:08,640
you've got like 7 million viewers.

1586
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:09,640
When do we get the 7 million?

1587
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:10,640
Is that the fourth year?

1588
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:15,240
I think you have to hit the algorithm which requires not getting demonetized every single

1589
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:21,840
episode or swearing or any of the other many things that we do like fucking constantly.

1590
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:22,840
Fuck man.

1591
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:24,520
I don't know about any of that shit.

1592
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:26,200
That is like, that sounds technical.

1593
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:27,200
Sorry.

1594
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:28,320
We were talking about the news.

1595
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:34,280
We just had a comment about winners from Ben Davis saying, did Coos really win when his

1596
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:35,800
teammates gifted it to him?

1597
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:42,840
Well, Ben, if his teammates gifted it to him, then A, they would have, well, they, well,

1598
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,920
they, look, he opened the gap.

1599
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:47,160
He opened the gap.

1600
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:51,080
They didn't open the gap to take red and he held red.

1601
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:56,240
Whether or not Jonas Vingard could have taken the red off him is another question.

1602
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:57,240
I don't know.

1603
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:02,040
I don't think, I don't think, I think gifted would be a bit strong anyway.

1604
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:05,520
I honestly do not know what in the fuck you're talking about.

1605
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:07,040
Is this football again?

1606
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:08,040
Football.

1607
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:09,040
Football.

1608
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:10,040
Football.

1609
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:12,160
I went to an Aussie rules game once.

1610
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:16,360
It was totally baffling and I was like, this is what happens when you just let a bunch

1611
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,600
of lads in the sunshine with beer just do their own thing.

1612
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:25,200
And then I looked it up and the rules for Aussie football have been standardized for longer

1613
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,920
than the rules of like association football.

1614
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:29,720
And I was like, what?

1615
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:31,440
My, I am shooketh.

1616
01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:34,000
We're organized over here, man.

1617
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:39,320
The good thing about AFL, if you'd kindly stop saying Aussie rules, that's fucking something

1618
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:40,320
else.

1619
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:44,000
Is that, wait, what's, what's, what's there's, you know, the rules in AFL?

1620
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:45,000
We call it AFL.

1621
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:46,000
It's AFL.

1622
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,320
Australian Football League.

1623
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:48,320
That's the footy.

1624
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:49,320
Right.

1625
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:50,320
But that's Aussie rules.

1626
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:51,320
No.

1627
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:52,320
No, it's like different rules.

1628
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,320
We call it the one where it's not rugby and it's not football.

1629
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:55,320
It's not.

1630
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,320
AFL, but also Aussie rules.

1631
01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:58,320
Yeah, right.

1632
01:20:58,320 --> 01:20:59,320
It's rugby, but you can kick it.

1633
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:00,320
The footy.

1634
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:01,320
Yeah.

1635
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:02,320
Yeah.

1636
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:04,320
So anyway, the rules are boys and boys.

1637
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:08,200
Those are the rules that were standardized 150 years ago.

1638
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:12,280
So I find AFL quite fucking boring on the TV.

1639
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:15,680
But if you go and see it live, it's great.

1640
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:16,680
I've been to a foot game.

1641
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:20,240
I've been beating each other up in the, like on the outfield and everything.

1642
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:21,240
Yeah.

1643
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:23,120
I've been to see it a couple of times.

1644
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:24,680
I've been to a couple of things.

1645
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,400
I've been to a lot of them.

1646
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:28,400
Baseball is the shit.

1647
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,400
Baseball is the one that makes sense live.

1648
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,400
I've tried to watch on the TV and it is the dire shit ever.

1649
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:37,680
Baseball, you go, you go, you drink and you hang out and you're like, and the game is

1650
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:38,680
there.

1651
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:39,680
Yeah.

1652
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:42,880
And the TV is dreadful, but like any time I get a chance to go and see a baseball game

1653
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,400
in person, I will go because it is fucking great.

1654
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:46,400
Yeah.

1655
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:50,560
It's like, I think it seemed like a couple of Arizona and a couple of Giants games and

1656
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,040
SF and that's like, that's like an American football.

1657
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:54,920
American football, you actually go to go to the game.

1658
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,680
Like you're watching like, because it's exciting.

1659
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,000
Baseball you're going to drink and hang out and then there's something that's going on.

1660
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:05,200
That's how I remember the footy too, because I remember getting, we were, we were watching,

1661
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:08,480
but we were, there was a lot of beer flowing and things like that there too.

1662
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:12,040
That fucking American football seems so fucking lazy.

1663
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,320
They really like, fuck man.

1664
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:19,680
They just like, they hike and then they like do one minute, one, well 30 seconds of work

1665
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:23,240
and then they like have a break for five minutes while they find their line.

1666
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:25,840
It's the slowest, most down shit ever.

1667
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,160
It's just like, you're in carry on that.

1668
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:30,520
It's like, you just push the people over.

1669
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:31,680
Grab the bowling boys.

1670
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:32,680
It's crazy.

1671
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:35,680
That would never be, that wouldn't survive in rugby fucking hell.

1672
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:36,680
Yeah.

1673
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:37,680
It's too big.

1674
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:38,760
Crazy athleticism though.

1675
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,560
More than I think any other sports seriously.

1676
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:45,080
But I mean, look at, look at the athleticism in there more than rugby.

1677
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:47,880
You're just, I mean, there's some athleticism there, but you're.

1678
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:49,880
They wear all that shit.

1679
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:55,320
Joe Loamoo cap hat nearly as fast as an Olympic sprinter whilst being a tank.

1680
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:59,840
I mean, there's, there is a lot of, anyway, I don't know, I'm not even that into rugby.

1681
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,760
I don't even know why I'm, why I'm standing for it.

1682
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,880
I don't know what, I don't even know.

1683
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:06,880
Game of notes.

1684
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:08,880
I don't know why I'm doing this.

1685
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,880
Like, I'm sort of hitting everything.

1686
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:17,880
That would be, that would be one of the t-shirts of all time.

1687
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:18,880
So yeah.

1688
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:19,880
Holy shit.

1689
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:20,880
Cosmo versus coming in a couple of weeks.

1690
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:21,880
Sorry.

1691
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:27,880
Do you think that like the casual punter, do you think the casual punter who happens

1692
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:31,720
upon our little, little group chat here?

1693
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:38,120
Like, do you think that this would discourage or encourage people from crypto?

1694
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:39,120
I hope this skirt.

1695
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:42,360
Do we like provide any belly?

1696
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:46,000
I talked to, I talked back to that omniflex thing we were talking about this morning.

1697
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,280
I talked a ton about gaming notes today.

1698
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,200
And, and Cisleback from omniflex backed me up as well.

1699
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:56,400
Cause I was talking about like, like, we're not chilling and all this type of stuff and,

1700
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:57,520
and kind of what's going into it.

1701
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:12,480
But I think, I think we're running a certain.