They forget about the thing growing up and then like it
essentially blows up and just you just hear like a bang.
And then next time you open the cupboard to get shit out of
the cupboard, fucking cider everywhere, man, sucks.
I've done that with key for it.
Right.
I used to store it right behind my couch.
Why behind my couch?
Because I was in college.
And so the back of my couch was covered in like milk key for
just everywhere.
So that couch had to go because it was coming out.
Steps where it takes step back.
Sorry, what the fuck?
Wait, did you actually brew cider or was it just like a sink full
of like unclean dishes that was this was just fermenting at its own?
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent
validated teams.
Hello, and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from
independent validator teams.
And on this week's episode, we want to kick off and immediately
start talking about the bizarre team tactics from team Yumbo
Visma in the last two stages of the world to Spain.
What was Jonas Fingegard doing on stage 16 when he started
opening up a gap with three kilometers to go?
Is GC Coos a meme or is it a dream?
Shorty, what do you think is happening in the DS camp at
Yumbo Visma right now?
Well, I assume these are all words.
But I can't quite identify.
No idea what the fuck you're talking about.
Like none.
Is that the title?
Prescripted.
Okay, so that I just assumed was real.
I have no idea.
Of course, the the Fuelta, which is currently happening.
But yeah, a little bit of internecine warfare looks like
it's taking hold.
It'd be interesting to see what happens there.
You guys kind of have a dog in the fight, right?
Because the current Red Jersey race leader is Sepp Coos,
Yankee Doodle, you know, the Durango kid.
What are we talking about?
Durango, that's a place in America somewhere.
What are we talking about?
Are we talking about a sport?
Are we talking about?
I have a feeling this is a cycling reference.
Is it a cycling reference?
It has to be.
For some reason, I feel like it was F1.
I don't know why.
No, F1, some people know about.
Like there was actually recognizable names on F1.
You said the word Sepp Coos.
Sepp Coos, the name you said?
Sepp Coos, yeah.
See that one's that one's actually Googleable.
I had to figure that one.
I had to figure out it was going to be like Bob Smith or something.
Sepp Coos. Yeah.
That's the name. He's a cyclist.
OK, that's quite the name.
Sepp Coos and Sepp SEPP.
Double P. SEPP.
So close to that.
C USS K USS.
K USS so close to piss spilled backwards.
Almost.
Piss.
It's sup.
Sup piss.
I'm not sure that that.
Oh, yeah.
You're close enough with that you can say that, right?
Yeah, just go down to the cafe.
Hey, Sepp.
Yeah, Sepp Coos.
I assume he lives in Andorra, like most professional cyclists
for tax and altitude reasons.
But but yeah, he's American.
Yeah, yeah, that's why I said he's from Derango.
Yeah.
I see somewhere high in America.
It's in Wyoming.
I think is what we're talking about.
Yeah. Wyoming.
That's is Wyoming a high state.
I mean, it can be.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's quite high because in the Rockies,
it's definitely the rockies.
He's known as a climber.
So that would be if you'd grown up an altitude that would.
6500 feet.
So yeah, it's up to you.
So yeah, it's up there.
What's that real money?
2000 meters.
A little bit more.
Yeah.
Okay. 2000.
That's pretty fucking high.
That's like top of an Alp high.
Okay. So no wonder he's quite a good climber if you fucking grew
up in the in the bloody mountains.
Yeah, literally with no accident.
Just going up.
Yeah.
He's just used to having no oxygen at all any of the time.
Anyway, Drango's in Colorado, though.
Is it?
Is there Durango, Wyoming as well?
I looked up Durango, Wyoming, because I didn't recognize it.
I'm from Wyoming, you know, and.
Oh, no, you're right.
Colorado.
My bad.
You're right.
It's Colorado.
I got excited for a moment there.
I was like, wow, someone that's actually from Wyoming.
No, you're from Wyoming.
Somebody's from Wyoming doing something.
I got excited for a moment.
I was like, wow, my people.
It's just out there in the world.
Not a bear or something.
Yeah.
All our stories are about bears.
My, although this is not relevant, we should move on to the news in a second.
My favorite thing that's happened in cycling in the last couple of years was with in the
Olympics, right?
The British coverage is super strange, right?
We only ever get medals in a couple of sports, but cycling is one of them.
One of the ones that we won was Cross Mountain Biking.
The guy that won that thing is about 20 years old, something like that.
His name's Tom Pickock.
He happens to be a road cyclist and he's very good despite being very, very young, but
he's not really like a household name.
They had this interview with his parents where they were obviously pissed with their friends
at a pub in Yorkshire, right?
They were very Yorkshire people.
They're very, very plain spoken.
They're just like shenanigans going on in the background and stuff like this.
Halfway through the interview, something just falls over in back of shot.
It was amazing.
The best thing was the interviewers obviously were just knocking through whenever a British
person won a medal.
They were just like, oh, quickly, interview the family.
They had none of the background.
They just figured out this guy's 19 years old.
He probably lives with his parents.
This is a real shock.
They have no idea that he's probably on a 2 million euro contract.
Lives in Andorra, is a professional cyclist, has done a couple of seasons, has won some
pretty major one day races.
They interview his parents who all of their children are really sporty in some way.
They're like rowers or they're on the development team for gymnastics, for Team GB or something.
All of the kids are.
There's these two parents.
They're just like, oh, so it's very hot in Japan.
Did Tom have the heat training tents that Team GB gave out?
Did he put it up in the garden?
Then his mum's just like, oh, I expected to put it up in his flat in Andorra where he
bloody lives kind of thing.
It was great.
Then there's obviously between shots.
You could tell the dad was just surreptitiously swinging for a bite of beer.
At the end of the interview, somebody had put some flowers and stuff in the edge of
the shot.
There's like a congratulations, I guess, while they were talking.
Then everything just tipped over really slowly like that.
Just as they were saying goodbye, it was a shambles.
It was great.
Speaking of shambles, our new section, courtesy of Rama, was supposed to be live delivered
by Rama today, but I gather he's having technical issues, which is why I'm having to hastily
cover with some phrase favorite cycling moments for the last three years.
My screen keeps going blue.
I can share some cycling moments too.
The world record for racing the Great Divide, which is a 2700 mile bike route from Canada
to Mexico, just got beat.
It's 12 days and 12 hours.
Like 17 minutes is the new record.
So he averaged like 250 miles per day.
That's what from the border of the border, is that what we said?
It's from Banff, Canada to the border of Mexico.
Yeah.
Going down the Rockies.
That's a true.
How many miles a day?
250 miles a day.
And insane amount.
I mean, you're going.
Mostly downhill, right?
No.
So you're starting off at Banff, which means you are.
You're pretty high.
You're quite high.
Yeah.
And you climb over the Rockies in Wyoming, come back down, climb over the Rockies in
Colorado, come back down, New Mexico, come back down.
That's what it's.
I think, wait, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico.
Insane amount of climbing.
12 days, 12 hours.
Absolutely outrageous.
That's like the new cannonball, huh?
That's like the.
It's the cyclist cannonball.
Yeah.
That's totally crazy.
It is crazy.
And the way he did it, here's how he did it.
He didn't think he'd win the record, but he was like, I figured I'd try this new thing
where I would ride my bike for 48 hours straight and then I would sleep for 12 hours.
And then I'd just repeated that a couple of times.
Perfect.
Because he did good.
Yeah.
It's pretty straightforward.
Yeah.
I was like, I'm going to ride a lot and then I'm going to sleep.
Yeah.
There's a pretty devastating.
It's the interesting documentary.
It's kind of low key.
It's like very low budget.
It's called something like, oh, what's it called?
On board the transcontinental race, I think, which is despite.
I was on the edge of my seat.
I was on the edge of the continent of Europe, say three day, 4,000 mile.
I think it's three days.
It's something like three or four days.
Oh, no, no, it's got to be more than that.
I think three or four days is the quickest time people do it.
I think it's about 4,000 kilometers.
But there's really hard cut off time.
And if you're just a bit not fit enough to really be doing it, the cut off time is such
that you will probably do it on that day and you'll probably arrive on that day, but you
will miss the cut because the cut is like early evening.
So on that final day, if you've paced it badly, you will be like 50 kilometers too slow.
And it happens to loads of people who are just not quite fit enough to do it in the
time cut.
And this documentary covers like three years of it, just following some riders and following
like because I think the founder had died shortly before, had been hit by a car and
died.
And that's why they sort of crowdfunded this film about this DIY race, basically, because
they were like, yeah, maybe look left before you turn in case there's a cyclist.
And also here's a cool event in his documentary in honor of the guy that died.
But yeah, they cover about three years of it because of COVID.
I think they were going to do two years of it and then they ended up having like a big
gap or something like that.
But every time people miss the time gap by like a really small amount after being on
their bike nonstop for a week and sleeping like three hours a night and stuff.
It's brutal.
I don't know why it's, it's paced.
It must be like, it must be like if you can ride like 200 watts or like whatever that
is in watts per kilo for most people, like I don't know if you can ride like 2.4 watts
per kilo constantly forever, you won't make the time cut.
But if you ride 2.5 or it must be like something like they've just, there's something about
the average.
It just means that it, like if you're pretty fit, you'll fail.
But if you're, you've trained your, your, your proverbials off, then you'll be fine.
I don't know.
But it's really sad.
Like when you, the great divides a heck of a lot of fun to watch because, you know, they're
in the mountains most times, you don't have reception.
And so they, everyone has like the garment and reach, which tracks them the entire time.
And then you get on a, they're on a webpage that you can see.
And from like day one, you'll start seeing people flip from orange where like they're
active to gray where now they're just a tourer, they're no longer a race.
Just toast.
Yeah.
There was a documentary about the great divide on Netflix, wasn't there?
I don't know about Netflix, but yeah, there was one that followed Lauren, I believe.
Is that ride the divide?
Yeah.
I'll put a link.
They're crazy.
They'll, they'll, the people that do the great divide, they'll prep by riding from like
wherever they came from, so a lot of people will ride from like Juneau, Alaska down to
BAM for like Florida to BAM.
And you're like, okay, so you're just going to do like a 3000 mile warmup ride?
Great.
Perfect.
Smart.
I mean, that sounds like fun, man.
It would, but Jesus God, that means like you're riding for two months.
I mean, yeah, if that bull market had gone a bit better, where would Brady now?
Yeah.
I would have been riding in the mountains with a, with a Garmin and a bike in a packet
of Chris probably.
Although probably not actually because I ended up having a baby, so it'd be really
irresponsible.
Just to sort out some things.
No, you probably can't, you can't just, you can't just lash a baby to the back of the
bike.
That's not a sensible thing.
Well, you could do a cargo bike.
Like one guy, he raced the great divide with his dog.
Get this dog out of here, really?
I, I, let me pull it up.
I swear to God.
So I know for a fact that there, somebody has completed.
So there's a nine day event in the UK called the lands and to John a growth.
It's like not too bad.
It's like whatever 130 kilometers a day and Britain's not that hilly.
But I know I'm pretty certain that somebody a couple of years ago rode it on a tandem where
their young child was on the back as a non peddling tandem rider.
And then there was a trailer behind, I think with their baby.
And then their wife was, I think maybe also with the trailer, I think they had three kids.
It was insane.
This whole family like did it.
Citation needed on that one.
But I think they also got their own.
So one of somebody I know rode a hill climb race.
They were a hill climber before they became a mom.
And they rode a hill climb race when their daughter was a year old with their daughter
in a buggy behind the race, behind the bike.
And in time trials and regulated time trials, most of them whimsically as a relic from when
this was a thing and like the 1910s or whatever, they have a separate category that you automatically
get put in if you turn up on a tandem.
A lot of regulation time trials can't technically stop you from lining up if you line up on
a tandem.
On the second of the day, it was a thing, right?
You just get put into your own category.
So if you turn up with your baby daughter in a pulley thing and it's got wheels, they
just go, I guess it's a tandem.
And then you end up winning the tandem category as the only entrance.
So there's a time trial out in the Peak District that has like a standing record for the tandem
and it's been set by this lady and a daughter, which is quite funny.
That's pretty fun.
That's cool.
Yeah, they're like.
They're like, I'm not tired of my resume.
Yeah.
I was just looking at you brought up this.
I was looking up.
I remember like some other story similar that with the dog on the back of the bike.
I remember somebody doing the same thing with like walking across the United States.
Forest gum.
No, it wasn't forest.
Forest did that too, right?
But it wasn't that a plot point.
That's a good point.
That was I was looking at Subway Sean, which I think was like around the, I remember this
guy from, I think it was around the pandemic who walked from New York to LA, but only ate
at Subway sandwich locations like the whole way.
It was 176 days of just walking and subway.
I remember this because he was live streaming like every day because he just walked literally
like down.
I mean, so Subway is one of my go to meals for when I do like long bike packing rides
that and Taco Bell.
Taco Bell is like the best.
Oh yeah.
Cause it has a really little glycemic index.
So like if you need energy now, you eat some Taco Bell and like you're ready to rock right
now.
But Subway is actually great like value for money for like calories.
Yeah.
That's fun.
Yeah, but you need like the right calories as well.
I mean, yeah, I'm not saying it's part of this complete breakfast, right?
I'm just saying like going on.
Yeah.
But this is why Belgium is the best place to do long distance cycling because weirdly
they have a big expat Italian community.
And so everywhere like not because of Italian people everywhere will serve you a carbonara
in Belgium like almost all of Wallonia.
They're just like everywhere just serve spaghetti carbonara, right?
And then the beer is bottle conditioned.
So it actually does have some nutrients in it and it's isotonic because it's beer, right?
So it's okay.
It's a little bit dehydrating.
Let's just put a pin in that one.
Yes, it is 9% which is not good for your hand like coordination, but one or two at lunchtime.
I mean, come on.
Come on.
Again, you're burning that off.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I'm just saying, you know.
Seems like a good time.
Where'd you do it?
Stop for chocolate.
I mean, that's great to chocolate.
I mean, chocolate is just legit straight up.
Super good for the long rides.
I mean, just sugar.
You just want carbohydrate, right?
On a super long ride, you just the closer it is to raw sugar.
Actually if you make your own flapjacks, that's the winning because you can put multiple
types of sugar in, so you put like brown sugar and then muscovado sugar and then one of them
will act differently from the other, I guess.
For pancakes?
Wait, what?
What are you saying to me, right?
Is that different from a flapjack and a pancake?
I thought those were the same thing.
No, wait, what?
No, flapjack is a cake made of oats.
Oh, not here.
Yeah, not here.
Same thing here.
Flapjack is like you get oats and you get golden syrup and then you add sugar and then
whatever you want to it and then you bake it.
That's a flapjack.
It's an oat paste.
That sounds awesome.
I'm going to look at the recipe for that right now.
I can give you mine, my man, although I think they're about 800 calories per flapjack because
they're for long distance cycling.
I normally go with oatmeal scotchies for that.
You go for what?
Oatmeal scotchies.
It's like an oatmeal cookie with butter scotch chips in them.
Oh, it's so good.
Okay, so basically the same thing because you can make it because flapjack is oats, right?
And you can actually do flapjacks with oatmeal, which makes it kind of cakey and consistency.
Although I don't know for the purposes of the conversation the other week about the
whole cake lawsuit thing.
I don't know whether flapjacks with oatmeal and biscuits or cake.
I think they're still biscuits legally, probably.
We are off the fucking rails here.
Yeah.
So I think we need to conclude that Rama is dead.
He's dead.
Long live the Rama and we're going to have to continue without him.
As like, yeah, but first.
Huge disappointment.
Huge.
Yeah, it's nice to let the interns have a crack at the prize and like come out from behind
the curtain, but you know, not going to happen on this occasion.
So.
Oh yeah, dig the book out.
Let's get moving.
Let's get the win on this.
Right.
Short seat.
You're up this week.
Say when?
Oh, we are in the section marked police.
Would you like the left page or the right page?
Right page fourth from the bottom.
Fourth from the bottom.
So the counting up.
Yep.
A man on a mountaintop won't stop yelling wanker.
The cops cannot reach him because of falling rocks.
Sounds like one.
That's a good one.
I kind of have the suspicion that the drill guy might be English just because almost everything
in it, every single reference is like American stuff, except for there's a few of them that
use bloody and there's a few use wanker and you're just like, you guys don't really say
one.
Not at all.
Can't Canadians do, but I use a wanker because I think it's hilarious and I almost always
get like a look from people of like, what is he saying to me?
Should I be offended?
And I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to move on from right there.
It's just the greatest.
It's just the greatest insult.
It rose off the tongue.
It's like, by the way, he's from New Jersey.
The farthest place from both culturally.
Yeah, from New Jersey.
I thought so too.
I remember because I know they know who he is and like who that person is.
Oh, he's from New Jersey.
He's from New Jersey.
He's been in something awful forms, which I used to like put out 20 years ago.
Oh, really?
Yeah, he was on SA.
Yeah, I remember that.
I remember that name too, because I think it was like something else drill, but it was
like, yeah, I forget what the hell it was.
And he's been with FYAD.
If you guys were on that shit.
Yeah.
Huh.
SA used to be awesome.
I loved it like the early 2000s or all that kind of maybe it wasn't that far ago.
Maybe 2005, maybe after that.
That was a lot of fun.
I mean, the internet was better back in the day, wasn't it?
It was.
It was a lot less shitty.
Yeah.
I mean, it was like objectively a lot more effort.
Like everything was more effort.
Yeah.
But it was like, oh, I don't know.
It was very interestingly atomized, just by default, I think.
When I think about the number of random people over the years that I've known or met,
via random forums and stuff like that.
But then I guess it's probably the same, I don't know, Zoomers chip in.
I guess it's probably the same these days.
There'll be a vector that's similar, but it would just be different, I don't know, influences,
fees or something like that.
Reddit feels like one of the only places that's very like the Internet of old, but it's still
very centralized, I guess, which is like.
Yeah.
It's very, I mean, I mean, I remember pre-Google when you were basically looking things up
on Yahoo, right?
Because it was basically a listing, right?
It wasn't search.
It was just, it was just you applied to have a site listed on a location.
And then that would, that was a very small list, right?
I mean, it was large at the time, but whatever, say it was 50,000 sites or something.
Did you have OSG's?
That was the thing that came out before Google?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Alta Vista, OSG's, Netscape had their own search, I think, early on, like based in those
days.
You know, Yahoo is like a massive conglomerate in Japan.
Like everyone uses Yahoo.
Like they don't use eBay, they use Yahoo.
They don't use Craigslist, they use Yahoo.
And a bunch of other things.
It's wild.
It's crazy that they're still around, yeah.
But like, but.
Wild.
Genuinely wild.
But you had like a small list of sites and then there, you basically branch that off to
find other ones.
And then you, then you shared those things, right?
You'd bookmark them and then you, then you would, you'd really, you'd share that with
something.
Yeah, I found this.
Yeah.
And then, and then you started getting the.
And then you send all your for agents an email that happened ever virus in it and they were
like, fucking hell, man, you send me this thing and now my computer is worth, my family
computers are worth this piece of crap.
And then you're like, well, you should have used Linux and then, you know, your friends
start to stop, stop talking to you in the playground and then you decide to become a
cosmos validated 10 years later.
I mean, it's just like.
So you call somebody an asshole and use some sort of use net group, but then, but your
names on it and you didn't realize that they track you down and come to your door.
That'd be one thing, right?
Cause like it wasn't no ennemy, ennemy, ennemy back then, or like you, then you do like a
finger command on the UNIX.
Like you try to figure out who that person is.
Remember that?
Remember like, you should be able to do a finger, like where it was like a finger command where
you could finger at a specific address, like a, like a, basically a name at a server that
would bring back like what your full name is and all that kind of stuff.
Cause they didn't really lock those ports down back in the old finger days.
And yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like, look, they used to be crazy because back in college, I'm where you could like,
if you had an email from anybody, you could just like do fingers and see like, it would
show like what their office is and like their office hours.
Like you basically use it as like a Rolodex, right?
And pull that data back.
Totally.
Yeah.
That was crazy.
Yeah.
That was a thing different in the UK.
So let's just, let's what else was early days?
Yeah.
Those are good.
Yeah, that's what I was like, that when Google showed up like that, and then, then you like,
I don't know, just the, I remember like early days of like all these like MSN or maybe it
was MSN, who like some of your MSN and Yahoo, maybe some of the original big properties
that just had like started pulling together like weather and sports and news and shit under
one domain, which was never like that before.
Right.
It was always like, oh, this is my local news site or this is something else.
And like it was very compartmentalized and they start getting bigger and bigger and all
that kind of shit.
And yeah, it started, it started to get less fun.
That's for sure.
And now we have Twitter.
And now we have X.
But not for much longer at current, at current rate of play.
So I don't know.
It's a losing.
Imagine my surprise.
It turns out it's still losing money because the leadership at the top is garbage.
So in the absence of our glorious intern, shall we do a bit of a bit of news corner without
null null is gone walk about.
He's gone to belong to null.
And he's he's he's like the point.
Right.
So he went to Cosmoverse last year and he pissed off the cartel and Medine and we all
know what happens from Australian person that pisses off an American drug dealer or drug
cartel.
Eventually they're in the bush, engaging in shenanigans, trying to lead them on walk
about so they can via series of convoluted but non-lethal means disarm all the henchmen
and eventually bring them to the justice of the Australian police system because they
you know, doing that in America, it's difficult.
There's regulations and laws and stuff.
So instead, you know, it's just crocodile hats on out into the bush.
That's how it works.
Right.
I think machete is also required.
But I could be machete required.
Maybe crocodile skin vests.
Yeah.
It kind of like it sort of makes sense, right, to break the break the meme for a second,
break the fourth wall and go.
It's interesting, of course, that film is an American film, right?
Is no it's not.
Is it really?
You're yeah, like crocodile done.
Yeah, you guys, you guys love that meme, that Australian meme as much if not more than the
American.
That's a true story.
That was a documentary.
Steve Irwin is bigger than America's in Australia.
Rest in peace.
Yeah.
Noel had to break that gently to me whenever he was staying over here that to Australians,
he wasn't anything and then for like Americans, it was.
We talked about late night.
What's wrong with you people?
I was like, what?
You can't say that.
I follow his son on Instagram.
What do you mean?
I think he made fun of us for that and Mr. Rogers and one there was one other personality
forget what it was, but it was like Steve Irwin and Mr. Rogers like, yeah.
And she'll say never like, fuck you, man.
Like, Mr. Rogers is the weird, like I thought that that was a joke and then like I realized
it was a real thing.
I will cut you.
You do a little bit of looking around and you're just like, don't you bad talk, Fred?
You're like, this guy can't be real.
He was real.
God damn it.
Well, so the thing is we had people like that in the UK, right?
And then we had this thing called Operation U-Tree, which was a wide-ranging investigation
into historical wrongdoing.
And now we don't have any beloved children.
Everybody's gone.
There are none left.
It turned out that it was all too good to be true.
Yeah.
That's like, that's like Peewee Herman.
Like you get one blowjob and then your whole life's work is down the train.
Ridiculous.
Peewee didn't wait, compared to like other things.
I mean, Peewee didn't do nothing.
Then he got shit on that for a long time.
It's like all it was.
Yeah.
Well, I thought it was a, I thought it was a, I could be wrong.
I thought it was like a, um, a call girl in a public movie theater or something like
that, something like that.
I forget.
And what about Hugh Grant?
Same thing.
Yeah.
Pulled up.
Yeah.
He's like Teflon down though.
Like it just, it just rolled off.
He's like, yeah.
It's got it sucked.
Everybody would have had it done.
No, but Fred, no stories came out about Fred.
Yeah.
Keep your, keep your, what, what is that group called that goes back and shits on everybody's
history?
Storyans?
No.
Investigative journalists?
The one that you just mentioned.
Police detectives?
Yeah.
I, I, I honestly don't know where we're going with this.
But, oh my God.
Anyway, back to Steve Irwin.
Oh, there we go.
Let's get Steve Irwin.
Finally, somebody can do the news.
Finally.
Well, I'm a, hello.
I made it.
I've got, I'm on makeshift here.
Pulled out the old portable computer.
Those are called like mobile tops, right?
Is that what those are called?
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's this new fend angle technology we just got here in Australia.
Usually it's like this bulb.
Burst looking device with the corded keyboard and mouse, but this one, like you can move
it around and stuff like, whoa.
Yeah.
Look at that.
That latest technology.
Yeah.
It's pretty cool.
You're looking well.
Congrats.
You're looking good.
The bear market, bear market plus children seem to be doing well for you.
The lightings, I don't, I had the room light on and then it was flickering.
I guess that, you know, it's new fend angle technology.
Can't keep up with my 60 Hertz.
Light bulb or something like that.
Just wait till the capacitors get to Australia.
Things have changed.
It's going to be amazing.
Yeah.
Is that, is that the bucket used to take water from the well behind, hanging behind
you?
Is that what you guys use?
Yeah.
I think the wife decided that it would be really nice to put a plant in the office.
That was the plant.
It did not survive.
I don't know why it's providing.
It's not bad.
In our shared office, somebody had the same idea where they were like, man, this place
is, it's bleak.
We keep saying we're going to repaint the walls, but not because it's a shared office
and all of us work for different companies.
You know, we never seem to get around to it.
So I'm going to take the initiative.
I'm going to buy some pots, you know, some hanging fancy pots because we have like these
big steel I beams.
We're in like a loft.
We'll put the pots, we'll hang them down.
It's going to be great.
It's going to be like hanging garden vibe and predictably, right?
What happens?
They get like four.
All dead.
The plants die quickly.
And then the taller people in the office start hitting their heads on the pots and then the
pots start falling until there was just one mesh, you know, like the rope bag that the
pot came in with no pot in it hanging down from the middle, but middle beam in the room.
That was all that was left.
It's one sad, empty scrotum of a pot holder.
And it was quite a good metaphor for like the tragedy of the commons if you're into
economics.
It was like one person putting all the effort, the rest of us did nothing.
And now we can't have nice things.
Though what we should, I mean, the actual solution probably was just like taxation.
Somebody should have said, hey, can everybody just chip in a hundred?
We're all too lazy.
We're all too busy.
Can everybody just chip in a hundred quid?
We're just getting a painter and paint the fucking place.
That's what we should do.
Okay.
Here's what I'll say to that.
The biggest, one of the biggest life changing things I've had was paying someone to mow my
lawn.
They come out twice a month, $70 a month.
And it's like life changing.
No longer have any of that stress.
It looks better than is if I'm going to do it.
That's an American and Australian problem.
Let me tell you.
My line is like eight inches because it just stresses the shit out of me too.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, exactly.
I don't think my garden is three, four foot by six foot or something like that.
The lawn is about that big.
Yeah.
I have a manual mower.
Just like this is the thing that's the actual.
Wow.
You haven't got new, you know, motors either.
Interesting.
We had them and then we did it.
And now there's a shortage of motors.
So we've just gone back to, you know, it was good enough for your granddad.
In fact, this was your granddad's.
There's no new motors.
So we're just going to have to resharpen the old ones.
That's split spirit.
I think this is like a fundamental issue with the modern mail.
It's like, I'm just going to get someone else to come in and cut my grass.
I can't handle this.
I can't do it.
It's, you know, have pride in your property and your lawn.
All right.
If you can't trim your lawn, then how are you going to hold a wife?
All right.
So the man with the empty hanging flower pod behind them, at least at least take the
dead plant out of here, man.
This is like the most Australian thing.
This thing can't do shit about my grass outside.
Fucking awesome.
Like, it's very Australian to come on.
The problem is that you Americans are getting cocked by your lawn.
Mike drop.
Yep.
Exactly.
All right.
Do some news.
We're excited for a real, like a real news.
Real news.
Okay.
Game face shit.
Brushes on.
So is all your keeping up?
Is it always negative?
We mean no.
Is there positive here?
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
No, no.
First off the rank, the big news, the big shelling point of Cosmos now, no more when
USDC.
It's here.
I don't know.
No one knows how to get it.
I think businesses have to get it first.
You have to buy it.
Right.
Yeah, this is the problem with circle, right?
Is that circle at the gateway is garbage because if you're in the UK, you can't fucking use
it with a business account.
You can't use.
News spray.
All right.
So USDC is here.
Okay.
It's here.
I feel blessed.
I feel absolutely generally in the area.
It's near.
It's here adjacent.
Exactly.
If you are able to and you are a business, you can buy it and then put it in your D app.
That's what I got from the circle website, but it's here and it's native and you're going
to be able to IBC it when someone buys it.
And then adding to that, this part I think is really cool.
It's here.
That's kind of nice.
What they're looking to do though is like bridging between, oh, I'm about to run out
of battery.
So I'm in all sorts of chambers.
Fucking hurry up.
They're going to be using a squid router circles transfer protocol and IBC to enable one to
one, ETH to DYDX swaps in one click.
So ETH USDC to DYDX USDC, one click, one transaction.
Like okay, it's cool.
Yeah.
Kind of similar to where USDC works on a sex across multiple different Ethereum based
chains, right?
Same type of thing.
Like it's just USDC.
Yeah.
And you only pay like 40 cents per dollar to do it.
Object.
Object to the tax.
Good.
Do you feel it?
No.
Wow.
Sorry.
Oh, do we just wandering through the house?
You can get the live view of wandering through the house to get the power cord.
This is the live news, breaking news right here.
The news reporter is about to run out of battery.
That is the most Australian hat I've ever seen in my life.
That's what I was just about to say.
Where's your sneak vest, man?
Do you get that?
It's the Australian hat.
Do you get that like at birth?
Did they give you that?
Like is that given away?
That one was birthday present.
So you don't have to have a subscription for it.
When he was born, it was literally put on the baby.
They're like, it's big for you now, Nipper, but you grow into it.
Here's your birth certificate.
Here's your hat.
Never get this to me, though.
That would never give you a walkthrough from through his house, ever.
Well, that's because the news reporter, he walked through that door at the end of the
room.
It would be up a flight of stairs into his parents' house.
So they'd probably tell him off, right?
Mom.
We can make fun of him all you want, because he never goes back to the show.
So it doesn't matter.
You can say whatever you want.
I'll never hear any of this.
So it doesn't make a difference.
I once, once Noel called me to ask me about something and I heard somebody shouting at
him in the background.
I was like, what's all that?
And he was just like, oh, I'm going out of the house to get a coffee.
And that's my, that's my mom shouting at me to get a coffee.
It's like, actually, context is not important here because it's just obviously more of my
evidence that he lives in the basement.
That's the important thing.
Of a customer's bill.
Yeah.
Why do you have corks on hand?
So USDC here, but we need some big, big regulated US based company to go buy a bunch of it,
exchange it for shitcoins on Osmosis so that the rest of us can buy it permissionlessly
and then we can have, then we can finally have the thing we're after.
We can always lose money together.
Yeah.
So the way I see it is right.
Osmosis Foundation's got like 1.5 million USDC on Mars supplying USDC.
They can just one to one swap it, you know, get some, sell it, get some circle.
And now, you know, we can fight amongst ourselves for the 1.5 million USDC on Osmosis.
But it looks like there has been $1.8 million in USDC minted, but a grand total of $4,
IBC it out.
So that's nice.
I'm not sure if you, I don't think IBC is enabled just yet.
You can buy it.
Get inflated, but now, hey, it's stop, stop yucking my yum, you know, bringing the mood
down.
I'm not bringing the mood down.
I'm just saying it's funny that only $4 have been IBCed out.
I bet it has been IBCed out because they would have needed to get the Denon from Osmosis
somehow.
I suppose they probably could have built it manually, but it probably would have been
easier to be like, I'll just shoot over.
Right.
Here it is.
Yeah.
I know Kooji and stuff do this.
I don't know how they do it, but they like pre, they pre seed it or something and be like,
hey, look, we're ready for native USDC.
All the wallets apparently too already.
So I don't know how you do that when you don't have the Denon.
Well, you can build the Denon because it's a function of like the originating Denon and
like the chain ID and something else.
It's pretty easy to build.
Like I did on and yeah, yeah, I guess they just build it and then put it in their day
up.
There you go.
Anyway, you know, I just like to quickly, you know, I think people that are very important
to this around USDC, we've got to thank them all, all of their hard work, all of their
building incredible feet.
Can't wait for all of that liquidity to flow in.
It's going to happen.
So, you know, you can build a DYDX, going to be a catalyst, you see.
Next news agenda, Metamask snaps open beta.
It is here.
Got a little bit of front run by Leap a couple of times and shade on their own announcement,
but officially Metamask snaps betas here.
Multiple chains and wallets have already announced it.
As I said, Leap, shade, but now Cosmos has got it.
So I believe over the next few days, we'll start to see, you know, more apps like Osmosis,
et cetera.
I think Cosmos kit, we look to adopt it and get it.
At the moment, there's only like a handful of chains or Dapps using it.
Stargaze used it the other day to buy an NFT.
Yeah, it's kind of cool.
Or he did it.
Yeah, saw that.
It's cool.
Yeah.
And it doesn't support ledger though, right?
Not to, wait, hold on.
Are we still in the positive section of the podcast?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's true, yeah, it does.
So there are a couple of limitations.
So within the native wallet itself, you can't do like send transactions.
So you can, you have your, yeah.
So you need the Dapp to have a send function.
The wallet doesn't send function.
So there are a couple of limitations.
And I think, you know, there wasn't officially announced, but if you check like Sam Hart,
who is kind of leading it from a biz depth side, he said that the first iteration is
going to be quite limited.
And to be clear, this is the, it's a snap beta that got released, right?
So it's not like it's a cosmos.
So there's a ton of add-ins or snaps that got released on the same day because MetaMask
released it, right?
So it's new for everybody.
It's new for every, for every ecosystem.
So yeah, that makes sense.
So it's going to take time to mature and all that kind of good stuff.
Exactly.
And I think the big kind of news story here for me is like, you know, we're going to
have MetaMask, it's going to, you know, 35 million users.
I think, you know, not to be too negative, but you need to have some form of like go-to-market
strategy to attract new users.
They're not just going to come because cosmos.
And I haven't seen anyone have a plan for its release.
I think that's kind of the biggest disappointment in a sense for me.
It's like, hey, it's here.
We've got some functionality.
Let's have a plan where we can onboard some users.
Who are they going to be?
How are we going to do that?
Why do I agree?
I do think that the MetaMask integration itself is a huge deal.
Whenever I have to like go to Solana and download Phantom, I'm always like, you know what?
I don't know if I'm really that interested in this network.
So I don't know.
I absolutely see the criticism for sure that like there needs to be more holistic approach
to like completing the picture for people that want to come over.
But even just getting this step, I think is pretty incredible.
Oh, definitely.
Right.
And it's going to remove a massive blocker, which is if people don't like to touch other
wallets and they're not going to create a new wallet.
So it's a good news there.
I think it was because if users are basically Windows users in like 1998 and they just want
to use IE.
You know, I would accept that criticism, except how many wallets now have had exploits
where people lost their mnemonic because they started using the other wallet.
I don't know.
It's just unfortunate.
Yeah.
I mean, fair.
Like MetaMOS, it doesn't feel like the safest either.
Like I don't, I don't trust it anymore than.
I agree.
And the interface of it, I think kind of sucks.
Yeah.
It's basically the same as it was when it launched.
I mean, there's a few small differences, but it's not, it's not super fun to use.
It's similar to Kepler 1, which was, it was clunky, but once you learned how it thought,
it was very straightforward.
Like, oh, I know exactly what's going on here.
And then I think Kepler 2 lost that a little bit because there's, you have to like kind
of relearn how they're thinking about the chain structure and, and, you know, like
the idea of being able to, to allow specific coins on each individual wallet that you have
and all that kind of shit, which is kind of pain in the ass.
I think that, sorry, go ahead.
No, it's it.
No, it's going to say so, so I think that'll happen here as well.
Because I mean, I, I've talked with it a little bit.
I didn't do any transactions, which I was supposed to do with the ledger, but I was
able to at least log into some sites and see some stuff.
And I think you had a note here also, Remer, about like the, the scary kind of warnings
that come up with that.
And there was, there was a shitload too was like, Hey, this, like the wording, the wording
was not great.
Like the wording was like, I should have taken a screenshot of it, but, but maybe we can
take control of your cosmos assets.
I think it's exactly what it was.
Like this, you are going to get allows that allows you to take control of like Adam and
allows you to take control of this.
And there was a list of like 75 of them, right?
And the launch chains in that, in that first integration were not, not what I thought actually
it was, I think it was cosmos and osmosis and a couple other ones, but there was a couple
like, like meta block was in there and a bunch of like old school stuff in there as well.
But some other newer ones like stride was in there.
We wasn't in there by all the shit chains.
You said, yeah, I mean, I mean, use your own definitions, but, but yeah, like the wording
was a little bit weird.
It was like, we'll take control of your Adam and all that kind of stuff.
But, but I mean, at least it logged in and, and I also don't, you can't see your, you
can't see those tokens within the wallet right yet.
I don't think so it's still, it still takes a, there's, it's, it's got a ways to go,
right?
But it's very out focused, right?
So it's not very wallet focused.
It's very DAP focused.
So if the, if the DAP doesn't provide the functionality of, you know, mint NFT, send TX, etc.
You're likely not going to see it within the metamask wallet.
Yeah.
Essentially, all it's doing is signing the transaction.
Yeah.
It's, it's, you're right.
It's a, it's a signing interface is really what it is, right?
So which I guess also non ledger.
So it kind of limits it as well, but hopefully those things will be.
I think that Pontum is a great iteration on metamask.
Like it was Pontum is a, as a wallet on the Apto's ecosystem and they kind of start their
interface with the metamask interface and they kind of iterate on it just a little bit.
And in my opinion, their interface is really like the final form.
Like if you want to do metamax, right?
You do Pontum.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
I agree.
Even, even with, I mean, they also don't deal with the multi chain thing as much, right?
They deal with multi wallet, but like the whole thing, like it's a tough UI experience when
you're talking about multiple different chains and you have the same wallet, which might have
the same key structure, but slightly different across those.
And like it's not, it's not the easiest UI challenge to solve, but, and especially in
Cosmos, like, I don't know how they're going to do that, but if, if, like they granted
access to whatever this 20 chains are, if all those things show up as tokens in the
metamask wallet, people are going to hate that shit, right?
Like they don't want to see that because right now it's really permission to be able
to add a token within there.
And I think you have to have a, you know, you don't have to have balance, but at least
you have to have a, like you have to have something to be able to initiate that structure
where that gets shown or to, or to go out and search and see if you have a balance on
it on a different ERC 20.
And so maybe that would have to be the same because you wouldn't want to see this big
long list of, which I think metamask or Kepler does right now, right?
So I think the reason they hide some of those types of things is they don't want to show
75 or 100 different chains with zero balances on them.
Anyway, yeah, but anyway, it's good stuff, right?
I think it's a, it's a starting point and we'll see what comes next.
Yeah.
I think it's cool.
It was, it was always fun, like jumping in and being like, Hey, like I'm using metamask
to buy an NFT and, you know, play around with it.
That was, that was cool.
So hopefully we, we get some adoption from it and let's see version two.
So if you think that who owns the go to market there, like, is that, is that a, I mean, there's
a, a Dow did some sponsoring of this to be able to help build some of these.
Leap has their own, the Stargaze, is it, is it like say an NFT, it's Stargaze obviously
has a, now they have a, not the most beautiful, but a in road to a tremendous more of amount
of users.
So each chain has their own GDM go to market around each of each of that, right?
Or is there, do you think there's a centralized entity that does a larger go to market around
being able to show metamask users that this world has opened?
I think it should be both.
I think something like either a Dow or, you know, even ICF should be leading a broader
go to market strategy for cosmos.
You know, you can, you know, now using your metamask, well, you can connect to cosmos.
You know, his, how to do it, his various apps that are supported, et cetera.
I think that should be what they're doing from a holistic approach.
But then individually, I think whoever's trying to capture some of that liquidity that's coming
across should have their own go to market strategies, right?
So, you know, neutron, osmosis, Stargaze as, as examples or shade as examples, they should
be having a plan to onboard users.
And I suggest that this to the Stargaze team is bring back the original Starz air drop,
modify it for metamask users and wallets and specifically target your audience, right?
Who is your audience?
It's going to be NFT whales, right?
You don't want to airdrop to the plebs.
That's very obvious that it's going to farm your stars and leave.
So some things that you could do as examples would be the original airdrop was like task
and claim base.
So first thing is like bridge $500 from ETH to Starz, right?
If you do that, you're eligible to collect some stars, mint an open edition, mint for
free, you can claim some stars LP, some stars, USDC, you know, pool, you can claim some stars
like locking it up so that you're incentivizing them and bringing them across and getting
them involved in both the token and the platform and things like, you know, listing an NFT
or buying an NFT, you can then claim some stars, whether it's vested or not, whatever.
There's obviously a risk there, but at least you're attempting to bring across liquidity
over the bridges and getting those NFT whales involved.
And, you know, he's had to buy a bad kid, come and do it and claim some stars as an example.
You don't want to shield bad kids all the time.
I think it's played out.
Yeah, agreed.
They're the only blue chip.
They're the only real blue chip in our hearts.
But the tooling is there.
That idea, it's basically like a Stargaze welcome pack, right?
Like you build some structure around some specific activities that you want to be able
to have and those types of things, which I think makes sense.
Like then I guess the benefit is, I mean, I'm just so disappointed with the Stargaze
price because under a cent, I think it's anything that's under, I think a cent in the
USD is still, I think people look down on that as a project, even though I think that
is one of the best projects in the ecosystem.
Like, I think it's one of the best projects in crypto.
And I think that really undermines the value and the quality of the tooling, the quality
of some of the projects on there and everything else that's coming behind that.
That's the only part that really disappoints me, but I guess that's a mix of things that
create that.
But I think that makes sense.
There's some challenges, right?
Like I think the pools, NFT pools are coming out soon.
I think pairing your NFTs against stars, I think utilizing liquid state stars across
the marketplace would be a lot better.
So rather than just using native stars, you can use liquid state stars, you can list and
buy against liquid state stars.
And again, I harp on this for days and days and weeks and weeks.
Getting their own pair against USDC will support and strengthen the token rather than being
only paired against Osmosis.
It's obviously not the issue, but it's one of the issues that they face.
Does DYDX single-handedly solve that problem or that's like, could you do that as well?
Does DYDX, you talk about like in terms of like one click across from Ethereum, USDC
to Cosmos, USDC and like really making that seamless associated.
Are you relating that idea back to the DYDX thing or just in general?
That's just squid router and I think it's either GMP or CCTP, the axilar, et cetera,
the bridges are making that one click experience and pack it forward middleware from my understanding.
So it doesn't, that's just the bridging.
Pooling against USDC for your sovereign 01 is critical.
Getting away from other tokens that are having downward pressure and then obviously Stargaze
itself needs to figure out its token.
Like you're minting everything in stars, you're selling on secondary in stars, people are going
to take their profits in stars and it's going to put down on pressure on the token.
So you need to solve that problem, either burn more tokens or enable people to list
in other tokens that don't put pressure on the token.
Which I think is coming right?
That was also a good thing that USDC has just entered, has just entered player two.
Yeah.
I mean, and I think now that Cosmos hubs deployed the liquid staking module, I think we'll probably
see other chains start to do it soon.
So I think it would make sense for stars to put LSM on there and then all that stake
stars you can now have liquid, you can pair it against your NFTs, still staking, increase
the staking amount on the chain and then use it in Defy and LP, et cetera.
So wasn't there already stride liquid staking module exists?
Like what's different?
Yeah, instant unbond.
So the liquid staking module takes your state stars or Adam and enables you to instantly
unbond it into a liquid stake derivative that you can use elsewhere.
So the only difference between that and ST Adam is what?
Just the unbonding period to be able to...
Oh, okay.
All right.
So it bypasses unbonding period to be able to turn that into liquid staking.
Yeah.
Okay.
Which we're about to get to.
So a nice little segue there.
The Cosmos hub exit liquidity module is now live.
Private little groups will know why that one's funny.
I'll read the headline.
Sorry.
Exit.
Can we just...
I think it's very important to bring up that we've had two headlines in a row, which
you've not read your own snippy headline.
Well, let's be honest, you would give Nala a lot of stick if he did not read that verbatim.
I read it.
It's Cosmos hub exit liquidity module is live.
Enabling all previous back holders to convert their state data into a receipt token, which
they can use to obtain ST Adam by a stride.
A little bit of...
Sorry.
You could also do it via persistence if you wanted to, but we all know that 90% of it's
going to be stride.
Little bit of tech talk here, which is rather interesting.
I was listening into the liquid stake module call with stride and informal.
And when you tokenize your items from your state data into your tokenized Adam, which
is your unbonded Adam, you then move it to stride and get state data.
You can then use that wherever and however you want.
Stride then has an obligation to stake items back into the validator set.
The way that that's currently operating is that there's one interchange account for all
state Adam, 3.5 million items.
And there's a limitation within, I believe, the SDK module where you can only do seven
redelegations per month.
So what they do is they actually hold that on Adam, the unstaked Adams as an NFT until
they hit their monthly redelegation cycle.
That word for word, please confirm it from the space that I linked in the recording.
So that seems like a limitation that could be, that could be a governance change, right,
in terms of changing the...
I don't think that's a problem.
Yeah, I don't think it's a problem.
I think it's a code side limitation.
Yeah, there's a lot of limit there, quite a lot of limitations with interchange accounts
because they're still quite early days.
And there's a lot of hereby dragons type stuff in the code.
Well, that's not a limitation in ICA though.
That's just a staking limitation.
You can only undeligate seven times per month or maybe a period per account.
Yeah, so the interaction between the machine and the staking.
The challenge is the way that Stride is doing their delegations.
And this isn't...
Right.
Other Dapps have had this.
So Cosmos Millions, what are they called?
The Vaults on Osmosis, Quasar had the same issue.
Oh, Quasar, yeah.
So both of those using interchange accounts faced the same issue after the fact.
So they went live, realized that they hit their redelegation or undeligation cap and
users accounts funds were just locked.
So the solution that they've come up with is to use multiple accounts and do batching
to handle it.
It seems like Stride just wants to have one account and they'll just do their delegation
once a month.
So there is a...
What's the expectation of loss with that sitting on the sideline?
Because, I mean, while it sits in that structure, it's not earning, right?
So there's a loss in terms of APR.
So they just do the math to figure out and lower that expectation based off this weird
NFT monthly staking structure?
Yeah, I didn't...
I was listening to it.
It was like 2 a.m. or something.
I fell asleep, but I listened to that part and I thought it was noteworthy.
And yeah, essentially they handled their delegations and redelegations once a month.
The Delta is sitting there waiting in between and probably just suffer a small hit.
What happens if there's a slashing event with the Validate that they're delegated
to that's going to cause them a pretty big economic problem?
They do a governance proposal and everybody just forgives it and they move on.
Of course, yeah, we just rewrite the ledger.
I think that's what we do.
We just ignore the rules.
But wait, they're a fucking silly balls chain now, aren't they?
ICS.
The rewriting the ledger just got a lot harder, right?
Because you stop your ledger, you stop consensus for that other chain, the one they're...
And they brought up with it.
Neutron?
No.
Yes.
Yeah.
They don't have to fork that, right?
I thought they just governance, prop that out and figure out a way...
Oh, maybe...
I don't know how they do that actually.
So, if you get slashed on Adam, you just get slashed.
If you get slashed on a consumer chain, you've got to go through the slashing prop.
That's right.
But that's the thing.
If you get slashed on Adam and then you have to do shenanigans on Adam, then you're in
trouble.
Yeah.
So, your point being that if an Adam validator gets slashed, that holds a significant amount
of these stride bonded tokens.
Copy it to that.
You're forgetting that one of the greatest features of the liquid state module is that
we centralize all this state Adam into 32 validators' hands.
So the select 32, the cream of the crop, primo validators that we don't slash, they just
fundamentally don't get slashed.
All of the other validators who offer liquid staking, their stake and their liquid tokens
for their delegators go to these other 32 to centralize the chain.
So, proper solved.
Perfect.
I hope it's taken in there.
Right, those 32 can still be slashed.
Technically, yes, but they're the best.
That's why they're getting all the best.
I mean, I used to give them the best where we're obviously not disagreeing with that.
I'm sure that there are some names in there that we all think are the most professional
outfits to ever grace this earth.
But let's imagine here a narrative where one of those guys gets slashed, then that's going
to cause all hell of problems when you're looking at downstream economic effects.
It's like an actual economy, but an economy only built on derivatives.
I mean, I can't think of a time this has ever gone wrong in human history, so it's probably
going to be fine.
It should be fine.
But hey, it's all right because we've got fear in the ecosystem now, finally.
So, we can build some derivatives on top of that, which would be cool.
We've got all this additional economic stimulus through the ecosystem now that we'll be able
to recover from it really easy because all that previously staked out and that was securing
the hub is now liquid and we can use it and generate some inflation elsewhere.
Lots of inflation.
Yeah.
I mean, it's all really, really good news before America goes into an election cycle
that could cause them to fall into a civil war.
So, I for one am looking forward.
I don't know what you're talking about.
I mean, America's like, I'm not stockpiling baby in style.
That would be bad.
It should be fine.
Yeah.
I'm not putting a bunker in the backyard.
It's fine.
I'm just buying up a supply of NATO flags to sellers like Souvenirs when day one, you
know, Levin had withdraws from NATO and it becomes a footnote in history books.
I'll be like, I'll be that guy in eBay.
Get underscore your underscore NATO underscore flags underscore 1985 selling NATO flags historic
replica historic memorabilia, 100 euro piece niche market.
He's cornered it.
He bought them all.
He bought them all before the guy even got elected.
He knew it was coming inside of trading to know what other flags, what other flags would
be consigned to the history books.
The Ukrainian one probably because he'll just sell out, sell them out to the Russians.
So buy up your Ukrainian flags too.
That's a dark one.
Sorry about that.
Ukrainian listeners, Slava Ukraine.
We have one.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe two had had one.
Yeah.
Hey, look, if it was my call, you know, we'd be spending, we'd, Raytheon would be spending
a lot more time producing javelin missiles for Ukraine.
That's that's what I'm saying.
Anyway, back to you.
That's a great segue into our next news topic, which is all about friends.
So there's two things that I wanted to talk to Stargaze looks like they're shipping lots
of features related to community.
One of the devs released a new on-chain community chat.
So it's tied to your, you know, Star's wallet.
IBC.chat is where it is.
And you can go in there, you can DM other wallets, you can create groups and you can
chat without transactions.
But it's, you know, your ID is your star name.
Do you know who did that?
That's kind of cool.
Yeah.
The tweet is in the spreadsheet.
I don't know the gentleman's name.
I haven't heard of him too much before, but they ship that which is cool.
Fabian Penzo is the Twitter account.
So was it?
Oh, is it Fabian?
So it leads me to conclude it may well be Fabian Penzo.
It is Fabian Penzo.
Okay.
Yeah.
We work with him because he does a lot of the stuff behind the scenes of Stargaze and
I think he's part of Stargaze team now.
Or is he part of Stargaze team now?
Maybe it may be Tenshenshul.
I don't know.
I know he handles a lot of the stuff related to consolation and some of the market behind
the scene marketplace.
I know he's a dev.
I met him in the early days.
We talk all the time actually just because he uses some RPC stuff and we pin all the
IPFS stuff for Stargaze.
So he provides a link or a feed for that based on what's coming through testnet, domainnet
and all that kind of good stuff.
So that's really cool.
I didn't know that 49 people waiting to be let in on the invite code.
It's really cool to work behind the scenes of Stargaze.
I got to be the one to work the back chat.
Is this similar to the one on Secret, what's it called?
I don't remember.
I'm losing track.
They had this on Secret, right?
So I think the intention is to have this for the interchange or for whatever chain you
wanted.
One of the comments of the news article here was I thought was quite hilarious.
to the replies and he's just like, can we make this token gated and only access for
a certain amount of staked atoms so we can use it for governance?
So I had to take the opportunity to quote retweet and ship post on it.
So I was like, the poor and the new are not allowed to speak to governance.
You will listen to the rich and the old God.
I jumped in there. I'm like, isn't that exactly the current Cosmos governance?
This is exactly what it is. This is fucking, it's all validators voting.
What do you want? How much more is centralize going to be than elected officials?
Come on now. It's exactly what it is.
Yeah. So it's like, Hey, here's this fun community thing.
You know, you can get involved in chat with the NFT community.
No, we will token gate this and this is for us to discuss official governance business.
And if you're a pleb, you are not allowed in.
But no, it's fine.
Song off the wall or something.
Yeah, I swear it's a Pink Floyd song just exactly about built on that.
Yeah. And then the second one, which was kind of subtly released was Shane from stars.
He's done like a 400 line Cosmos version of friends.tech.
So I think he's looking to kind of get that into beta and start testing that,
which would be interesting.
So I looked at the community.
After you posted, I look at the repo is all like three or four weeks ago.
That that's, I don't know, Shane, worry well, but I know well enough to at least,
I think he probably looked at that saw the hyper on his like, I could build that and just,
it's just maybe pulled in all night or just built the whole damn thing.
Because it's all like, it looked like it was one push like three weeks ago.
So it was, it's pretty cool.
Hopefully he does it.
Yeah. I'm sorry.
I'm battling tech support over here still.
Yeah. It's, I think it's really cool.
Like the, especially for stars in particular, like shipping community based features like that,
right? Like they're very community orientated.
So it makes sense for them to kind of ship those kind of community chats.
And if you can get done chain and it's away from, you know, web to type social,
then I think we're making good steps, especially if it's not using transactions,
but it's using your on chain identity.
I think those are kind of cool.
Yep. Very cool.
So Jake, Jake's lurking in the chat and I said,
was actually in the first version of stargaze, which, which I remember steak, steak bird,
which was the state.
Pretty sure that was the name of it.
Is that the chat part or which part?
That was the, well, it was like, it was like, there are a bunch of stuff with,
like, yeah, sort of like a delegate staking and social staking and stuff.
So it's something obviously that Shane's thought a lot about and the rest of the stargaze
he even thought a lot about over the years.
So it's no surprise that obviously they've got some thoughts about how that would,
how that would work.
And therefore, you know, I think there's that back to the thing that we've talked about with
stargaze before when we had Shane on the Jorge on and we've also talked to Jake about it too,
one point or another.
Like everybody knows the whole NFT thing is basically a social thing and that's the way it
works.
So I think they, from, you know, the team very much started on the social side, pivoted to the NFT
side because that had a bigger community than Web3Social and now heading back in that sort of
direction, which again kind of makes sense as a kind of roadmap. Yeah.
And to your point, you say, like, it's back to the thing of like the reason that stargaze is a
pretty good project in CosmosTurbs, is there a project that probably actually have a roadmap
unlike most others, to be honest?
Well, I think it, I mean, other than getting away from derivatives and swapping tokens and
everything else, like there's a real product here that is a very early that can grow into a
tremendous amount of different things, right? And I think the power of NFTs or
power of NFT is still, I think there's a lot of use cases still left to be defined.
I mean, I had to point to the thought of that on which one of the many random Cosmos coins that
we as a company hold from being early, I guess, that is likely to be worth anything in the future,
that would probably be on stargaze, to be honest.
Yeah. And I think like one time, I remember, I thought about this a few weeks ago, but I think
one time I hear, I might have said that stargaze is undervalued in Cosmos. And like that's a true
statement, but not a very fair statement because it is extremely valuable and valued in Cosmos.
And I think it's nowhere near what it should be. Like, so it's both valued and undervalued,
but I really, I mean, that team, the way that they ship and I think what's coming and the
attention though, because you don't want like, if you want that stuff to actually work like in a
mass scale, like it can't be like ETH prices for NFTs, like that shit's fucking insane.
Yeah, I agree. Or at least, well, so you, well, it's, it's all relative, right?
Because yeah, so the problem is actually that you have multiple, and this is why Fiat currency
works for what it works for, right? Is that you have one token trying to be all things to all men,
whereas it's actually not just one product, but it's an ecosystem of products that actually have
orthogonal use cases back to the thing of like, essentially validators, ideally always,
they need to have money, right? They need to have money to sell, right? But you don't want
downward pressure on your token. And you also don't want validator selling to affect NFC prices,
but it will do if you, you know, it's all of these kind of everything is kind of all interconnected
and it's all, right? Yeah, in this bear market, it's back to the, I don't know why Australian
contingent is always the most down with DeFi, but it's back down to what our Australian contingent
always talk about with, you know, LSM and all this stuff to reduce that kind of pressure or to change
it. And a lot of that is just because of the app chain model is still, the entire ecosystem has to
be built on that new coin, right? And then when you get away from that and you go, well, we can just
spin up any number of coins, you end up going back to the proliferation of shitcoins of Ethereum,
but with like just a tiny, a tiny footprint, because each app chain in Cosmos is like chicken
feed compared to other than maybe atom, this chicken feed to a lot of the size of ecosystems
that you need to be in order to have that proliferation of all coins that people like.
But, but it's all relative. Like, I mean, even you never know how good you have it, because
like we do a lot of transactions in the Ethereum world too. And if I can do an actual transfer,
if I can do some things for under five bucks, a transaction, I'm pretty happy.
Like, I'm like, all right, this is a good deal. Like it's only $3.40 for me to send this, this
token token. So like, it's like maybe under 20, 25 quay, something similar to that, right? I'm
pretty ecstatic. And you go on Twitter and everybody's fucking bitching about less than one cent
transaction fees in Cosmos. Like, yeah, I know it's not much, but I'm going to do a million of
these. So therefore, that really adds up, folks. Like, like, I get it. But at the same time, like,
there has to be some balance there, right? So, and we want to get, I think we all want to get to
the point of trying to reduce mint and we try to reduce inflation and be able to work off fees.
And like, there has to your point, I think there's going to be a balance there. And some
change will find that balance and others will not. Like, I think, I think, Ramez said the same
thing, right? Like, like, and whether or not that's all, if all the pressure's on just the native
token, that's a tough spot to be in because like, we get usually paid in the native token, right?
That's our, that's our, that's the way that we, that we have to eat. And so therefore, that we're
automatically putting down a pressure on. So what are this? And I think the infinity swaps that's
coming out very soon from what I hear will be, will be quite a catalyst, right? Like, you know,
the previous marketplace experience where it is nice for Stargaze, it's just replicating,
you know, very basic features that we have on kind of ETH and have had for a very long time.
So having something new from a Cosmos perspective with, you know, being able to LP your own tokens,
reducing or removing royalties for creators and then minting, you know, 10% of the collection
for themselves and pairing it against either stars or USDC, it kind of opens up a lot more of those
kind of defy options. And you will hopefully see kind of less direct sell pressure on the token,
because, you know, rather than going to the marketplace and going, oh, do I want to buy
that NFT, you can just do a straight swap. Hey, I want to swap, you know, this amount of X token,
and I receive five of the related NFTs because the floor price is determined by how many are paired
in the pool against said token. So I think with secondary with different tokens,
you know, Adam, USDC, whatever you want to do, whilst also using something like Osmosis's
fee abstraction module, as an example, where you can buy a token, buy an NFT with Adam off
the secondary, the portion of that that's supposed to be burnt is swapped into stars and burnt
with the fee abstraction module as an example. So the community is still getting what it's,
you know, promised by governance, you're not putting downward sell pressure on the token,
because it's the secondary is in a different token. And perhaps, you know, you send a small
percentage to the foundation or the community pool to start accruing value back into the chain itself
to continue development and diversify the community pool, etc. So there's lots of options
there. It's just a matter of how you implement it and how long it takes to do it. One of my
criticisms of Cosmos is things take too long, right? Like, you know, six months to deliver
infinity swaps on Stargaze, for example, small teams on Ethereum deliver that in a few weeks,
right, with a very basic website. And now we're in the position where we're releasing
infinity swaps on Stargaze, but they've already got curved pools on Ethereum, right? And we're
already getting, they're already moving on from, you know, these basic pooling mechanisms to
different new mechanisms that they've invented on Ethereum. So we just need to kind of find that
balance between delivering features and providing a good user experience to make sure we're staying
relevant. If we're not staying relevant in terms of features and functionality of either DeFi or,
you know, NFTs, we're not going to attract new users. You know, we need to be innovating and
bringing new features that other people don't have and attracting users that way.
The same thing about money and everything, isn't it? Like, it's a little bit where we are.
Oh, I would say that it's the development cycle, right? Like, I think that Cosmos Prides
itself, especially our like blue chip chains, pride ourselves on delivering these incredibly
good user experience, you know, concentrated liquidity and infinity swaps as two examples,
right? They're going to be very nice features, but they've taken a year to deliver.
But is that purely development or is that more just risk adverse because it's early and we want
to make, like those teams don't want to make incorrect steps or like, is that just being cautious
or because it's early for the ecosystem or is that truly like we're all agreement,
this is where we want to be, it just takes forever to be able to build?
I think it's probably cautious and also shows the lack of, you know, basic developer that we have
in Cosmos. So, you know, in the bull market, we use Fortis as the example, right? Absolute crazy
ride, DGen. But the innovation that that opened up with, you know, pairing liquid,
pairing LPs against other base tokens, that's a cool feature that other chains could use.
And they're probably featured in their code that other chains could use. If we had DGen's
building alternative marketplace of stars where they shipped, you know, these like for like features
on Ethereum very quick and dirty. And then Stargaze goes, oh, that's kind of cool. Let's, you know,
add that as part of our DApp or an additional feature. I just think it's we're relying on these
core devs to build these core platform features. So they take their time with it.
To make sure it's right. But that development cycle means that, you know, we miss out on
other innovation opportunities. But Fortis also didn't work, right? It didn't stick. So
you're also relay, you're relaying it to something that fizzled. And so, and these,
these teams are building for a decade. So they're not going to like just step into something that
like from a, from a consumer perspective, there might be 10 chains that could do this job. So
that like we want to, we want to see things happen fast and before, but from a team perspective,
they're trying to hold on to the value and grow it at a, at a sustainable rate, right? So they
don't want to take that amount of risk and, and risk something that could destroy the chain as well.
Right. For sure. Right. And that's why I said, you know, the two blue chip examples take the,
the slower, less risk adverse approach. You know, having something like, you know, these crazy
features built on like who or something, right? Is a perfect example of like based on what they
say, Chihuahua, like that's where this DGN stuff should be built, right? And then you have your
chips go, oh, is that, is that nice? Let's leverage off that and bring that feature in.
So that's fair. That's fair. And let, and yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. And to your point, like
Fortis was, you're right, like, like what they were, maybe not the full package, but you're
right. Is there a reasonable components in there we could look at and say, this is something that
we want to, we want to cherry pick out of this and be able to use somewhere else, right? Yeah.
Last news item, which is funnily enough, the news now takes up the whole show.
Composable finance, the first chain to bring us an IBC connection to dots is requesting to join
the atom economic zone. In their original proposal, they asked for 450,000 atoms for protocol and
liquidity, which is very swiftly removed after some basic questions from the community.
Their plan is to make the hub, the IBC router for the interch, for the interconnected network of
blockchains. And they're, you know, they've pitched a bunch of revenue through IBC transactions.
And they're going to provide 8 million Pica tokens, which is their, their chains token per day for
the validator set from inflation's. And the Pica tokens got a bunch of zeros in front of its
price and it's down 80% since May. So I think there's probably some questions around economic
sustainability there and transaction volumes. But yes, put it up. Yeah. It's, it's a little bit more
price pressure on the atom validator set. It's fine. We okay. So that's an interesting one. I think
initially there was some, you know, scrutiny around the founder, which is always going to happen. But
I'm more interested in the economic model, right? Like currently there's been about 5000 volume
across their decks in dollars. So I count much IBC volume that we had from dot to cosmos.
5000 USD. Yeah. Not 5000 transactions, $5000 straight up across the entire thing.
From what I can see, it's very difficult to see because they, they're on ping pub and I think the
IBC client was on byte codes don't decode very well. So like actually tracking transaction
volumes very difficult. So I can only use their decks as like a catalyst of how much has been
swapped through as an example, which is quite low, which gives me an indication that there's
probably not a whole lot of IBC transaction on top. The main thing is like, I would have thought
that if people were interested in being cross ecosystem, we would have seen like a decent uptick
in, you know, dot being LP on osmosis as an example. What is going to be the catalyst for this?
Was the dot from composable ever marked as like the canonical dot? Because you can also get dot
through axler, right? So I believe because it's now through IBC, it's going to be,
I don't know if it's actually gone through on chain as the canonical dot. But the composable
chain Centuri will be basically it's going to hold all the denoms for everything that comes from dot.
And they plan to do that for like abax and eth and they want it to be an easy chain and provide
20% of the revenue back to the hub. So my biggest thing is like the transaction volume, right? Like
why would people bring their dot to cosmos other than being long on dot and then using it in defy
to earn some cosmos assets? I just don't see the big catalyst here. And it's the same for like
abax and stuff, right? Like you're just going to swap. Yeah, well, this was about the size of the
ecosystem. Like and what you can do and what can you do in cosmos that you can't do in polka dot?
I mean, there's quite a few things, but they mainly are, I mean, they're mainly technical
really, like as a developer, there's a lot of reasons for being in the cosmos ecosystem rather
than the polka dot one. But the end user way, maybe you don't care. You're just a shit coin investor.
You know, potato with toe, no? And the biggest thing is, which is why I think
Composal has been going around asking for protocol and liquidity from a bunch of
Dex's and neutron atom, I assume they'll ask for Osmo as well, is that you'll bring your dot across,
you might use it in something, but at the end of the day, you're going to most likely need to
want to swap it at some point. And if you don't have liquidity along that path, then it's essentially
useless bridging it across. Right. Answer your question. And she'll team that is coming across
through Moonbeam, not XLR, but that's coming through Moonbeam on Osmo. I thought Moonbeam was
through XLR. Is it? Yeah. Oh, it's just a front end. Yeah. Oh, my bad. There's other dot that's
not visible or usable anywhere. Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Anyway, you know, out of
Mechanomics Zone, props are always fun. So we'll see if it gets on chain and how that plays out.
You got to work on your order of these. You kind of left a download. You got to work on the order
of these. Yeah. I think that's a great news. More chains wanting to join the AES, it's bullish,
don't you think? Even though you said, it's not going to happen, but yeah, it's bullish.
I'm not an atom validator. I'm not gifted the opportunity to vote to change the world.
This feels a little bit like quantity is a quality all of its own.
You know, whenever there's like another one of these projects coming along, you're a little bit
like, hmm, I mean, it might do something, but it might not. And I've been wrong before. So now I'm
just like, yeah, it's kind of, I guess it's all kind of back to the bullish or bullshitt from
Ben Davis in the chat. Yes, indeed. It's kind of all back to the match. I think impossibly,
this is like the vestiges of half an economic degree poking through. But I guess I look at
some of that stuff and I go, well, the user base isn't significantly different. And what can we
offer like the average user that they could do their own eco? And it's definitely bullish to have it,
right? May as well. Why not? But you're also just like, it's not enough to turn the needle on anything
significant. That's like a macro question. That's like a macro question of where we are
with inflation, the wider economy, access to liquidity, access to fear,
what people have in their own pockets, right? And I'm not sure we can just create derivatives to
get ourselves out of that problem. Because fundamentally, somewhere somebody's getting
paid for their day job and eventually that money ends up as liquidity somewhere,
you know, as shitcoins, right? But the vector for all the party all happening is somewhere
far away from where we are for the majority of users. Like nobody's getting paid in.