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Right. So you just use the headers.

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So you write a little ACF as, Hey, I'm looking for this header or this one or this one or

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this one or this one. And you can write it to different back ends to support that.

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That makes sense.

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Does it?

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent Validator teams.

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Oh, welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from increasingly tired and

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beardy Validator teams. At least in my case, there's been a lot of culture going on this week.

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Yeah, a lot of culture, actually.

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Yeah, a lot of culture. Well, I mean, mainly from one third of the current trifecta, although I

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suppose one, one could assume that shortsies on vacation won't dox wear.

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Oh, is he's not coming?

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Might be more beach based than museum based, but presumably some, some culture will be

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happening there as well. So actually, I guess half of the show has been engaging in

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culture where half of the show has engaged in degeneracy, presumably for the remaining

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for the seven days since the last show. So yeah.

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Nothing like building a new deck for 12 weeks of your life and then celebrating by leaving the

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house. Going on vacation.

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Yeah. Well, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm not saying that I'm like, yeah.

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Maybe you just.

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Yeah. No, it wasn't like a reference to something else. No, that was literally, I does say that the

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light is very weird where you are. And then I've just realized that's probably sunrise, isn't

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that?

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Yeah, I've got the window open and there's actually a ray of light directly in front of my

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face. So if I like put my face into it, I just get that fucking.

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August here, which is supposedly summer, but in reality, it's like autumn.

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It's starting to cool a little bit.

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Oh, autumn is August. It's usually fucked.

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How the shit here still?

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So it's pretty different. The UK is not like a big country.

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I guess it's quite long, but it's not like massive.

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But in the south of England, towards the coast, it's definitely the case

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that you get a proper summer that August is summer.

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Everywhere and the further you go north of the country,

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but some of you are in Scotland, it's like 15 degrees and you might get some sunshine.

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Okay. So one of Scotland's summers, it doesn't start in the early rates,

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which is short of mid-G. It gets mid-G in May, April-May.

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That's my understanding.

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But I'm pretty sure, so if you, somebody maybe before we will get into Null's

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News Corner in a second, but... There is no News Corner.

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Yeah, well, that itself is news.

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That itself is news, we'll talk about that.

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Yeah. So somebody with better knowledge of Gaelic folklore can like,

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correct me on this one, but my understanding is that essentially two

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seasons in traditional, I guess, Gaelic storytelling tradition,

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which is like winter and summer. And my understanding is summer essentially

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begins on the 1st of May.

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But I'm not well versed enough to remember exactly when fucking winter begins.

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So I know for a fact...

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First of June.

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I mean, that's also why May Day in the UK, I guess, do you guys have May Day in the US?

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We don't.

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Okay, so May Day is traditionally the beginning of summer.

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It's like the end of the spring festivals, although I suppose it's considered

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the spring festival weirdly, although it's fucking obviously going into summer,

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given it's the fifth month.

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But anyway, Scotland basically has, as far as I can tell, as well as the north

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of England, basically two seasons.

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You're basically descending into winter or you're coming out of winter into summer.

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So you get a little chunk of summer, but then the rest of it is just, you know...

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Yeah, that was another word for winter.

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Whatever, man.

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I like to say, it feels like a very, very distant, very, very distant time that I

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saw some sunshine in the south of France.

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So, yeah, is that an artifact shirt?

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This is an artifact shirt.

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I do like a rainbow.

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Yeah, I think it was a Pride Month one, but it's very cool.

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I really like the color.

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I like it too.

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I really have t-shirts that have been given to me at conferences or around t-shirts.

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Artifact, even recognizing the public, like, you know, hotness, the events.

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Pride Week.

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Well, like the zeitgeist.

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What?

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The word you're looking for is zeitgeist.

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Oh, is it?

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Yes.

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Sure.

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Cool.

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Yeah.

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Good job, artifacts.

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Good job.

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Mergekings.

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Perfect.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, it's a great t-shirt.

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Love the color.

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Don't have any other t-shirts in this color.

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So, wear this fucking t-shirt all the time.

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It's great to show that artifacts are, once again, much better at branding and...

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Oh, and all of us.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Really, all of it, to be honest.

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We actually do have a point on this on the agenda for today, but I'm aware that we have

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a new... we have an adherence to format is required.

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That's what we are.

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So, no, take away the news.

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The news is that our news researcher quit after one week.

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Did he quit or are we just... do we just not receive our deliverable?

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I believe that... so this is a two-pronged attack.

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I believe that, A, we didn't pay our invoice and B...

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But it's not even a month.

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We received no deliverable.

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At the end of the month, what was the agreed upon...

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What was the agreed upon cadence of said point?

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Well, there's no contract written.

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Oh, well then, what the hell?

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Geez.

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Short views on the...

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Round of angry.

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Maybe.

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In anticipation...

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I can't find it.

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In anticipation of the fact that we singularly failed to actually get our asses together on

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Doudow, you may notice the title of this podcast.

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True.

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We are going to...

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By the end of 90 minutes, we can knock this on the headlads.

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In true cosmos...

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Orama is here saying that we're wrong, but in true cosmos fashion, we should ignore all

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the facts and just continue down this diatribe of just him running on a second.

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Well, I mean, I'm on the spreadsheet and I don't see shit in here.

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We're being called out.

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Is there a clone of the spreadsheet?

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Or more...

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Is the agenda what he's referring to?

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Did one of you do that?

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No, but it says also...

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I thought that was all shit that we had left over.

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But wait, is he on the spreadsheet?

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I don't know.

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Has Rama...

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Wait, is Harba protocol hack was that two weeks ago?

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Which one?

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Was the Harba protocol hack two weeks ago?

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Yeah.

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Well, last week is last week, right?

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Because it has the friends.txt up that we talked about, which is already fucked, right?

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That tree's got that in the mysterious agenda that's not here.

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So there are some points on the sheet for two weeks ago.

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So now I'm wondering whether Rama has actually delivered the news.

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No, we're true.

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They drew the day-to-day fashion.

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Peter, you've lost the news.

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Actually, he's counted, rather than counting one forward for the week after last week,

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he's counted one backward.

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So it's not a failure of basic maths, but actually in Australia, obviously, being on

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the other side, being in the southern hemisphere, the spreadsheet moves backwards.

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We had done seven with NL in the early days because we, in the northern hemisphere, so

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we're on episode 76.

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But in the southern hemisphere, they would be, strictly speaking, on episode 74, we

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ought not to use the northern hemisphere classification.

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Another theory is Rama wants to go back down to one, and then we end this fucking show.

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I mean, that's what it is.

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The joke was 75, and then he goes 74 down to one, and then at one, that's it.

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We're done.

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But the joke would still be on listeners because that's still 18 months worth of content.

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At least there's an end in sight.

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Yeah, I mean, at least there's a defined ending.

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It's better than, I mean, what else can you do?

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In the words of Jeff Rose and stock, nothing's forever, dude.

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So I really like remembering one-liners from people that nobody will actually have any

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frame reference for.

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So you can just say, oh, and the words are, and it's like a name, just like un-googleable

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random name.

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It's like, oh my goodness.

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That part's not important.

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But if you put the button.

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I see we're all clicking around the 74th.

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So Rama, he didn't pick up on the whole friends.tech Twitter logins to whatever you got posted as a

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get-in message.

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Oh yeah, actually, I've put that in my notes.

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Yeah.

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You did?

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Yeah.

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Well, I've bookmarked a, I have this little notes thing here with the, you know, the notes

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app on Apple, you know, I could just share shit to it.

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Well, from your, from Twitter.

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00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:30,480
Yeah.

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00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,480
So I make like a little, you can share it from Twitter.

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Share directly to notes.

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00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:35,480
Yeah.

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On the iPhone.

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Thanks, Apple, whoever's in charge of that these days.

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I guess that's called X.

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Can we just, no, we can't.

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X.com they have now.

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Yeah.

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So mommy Laura on Twitter has, has made a post regarding all of the, all of the pitfalls of friend tech and it has a

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graphic on there called not friend.tech.

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So yeah.

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Flash.

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But the headline is unmasking the truth behind friend tech.

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F T.

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F T operates like a Ponzi scheme under the guise of a social experiment capitalizing on the recklessness of influences buckle up.

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00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,480
This is going to be a long one.

200
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,480
And she goes through just a bunch of shit.

201
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:35,480
The first thing being that the founders have launched other social experiments that don't really last very long on Twitter and

202
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,480
Twitter related things.

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00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:45,480
So the three projects that would be their two previous failed experiments in this project have a couple of things in common.

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They all call themselves social experiments.

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00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:54,480
They all have a pyramid structure and they were all operated for a short amount of time before being shut down.

206
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,480
So that would be the previous two.

207
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,480
But yeah, there is.

208
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,480
It's, man, it's, it's hard to find.

209
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,480
But obviously there is the privacy issues.

210
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,480
I think last week we were saying, I forget what we had in the notes, but it was you could log in via like social network, right?

211
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:15,480
But is this the one that they would they were asking for the mnemonic like in the wallet or was that something else?

212
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,480
No, it wasn't that.

213
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,480
It wasn't that.

214
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:19,480
Say airdrop.

215
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:20,480
Oh yeah.

216
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,480
No, no, no, no, it wasn't say airdrop.

217
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,480
No, no, no, they weren't asking for it.

218
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,480
Desmos.

219
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:25,480
Desmos.

220
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:26,480
Oh, Desmos.

221
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:27,480
That's right.

222
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,480
Do you remember like it was like a shit how that never shipped.

223
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:30,480
Yeah.

224
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,480
Well, that was a while ago, but I thought there was another one.

225
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,480
I thought there was another one recently and there was there was something else.

226
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,480
But anyway.

227
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,480
So, so, right.

228
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:42,480
So it's always good that this research comes out after everybody puts in, you know, all the information of these fucking apps.

229
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:49,480
Well, I never used it because I opened the page and it told me I had to connect to something and then I was like, fuck, there's a man.

230
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:50,480
Yeah.

231
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,480
Yeah.

232
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,480
And like, you know, what is it based on Ethereum?

233
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:54,480
I don't know.

234
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,480
It sounded like expensive fees.

235
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:57,480
No, it's on base, right?

236
00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:58,480
It's on Coinbase.

237
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,480
It's on Coinbase's base.

238
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,480
Oh, right.

239
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:02,480
Is it?

240
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,480
Yeah, it's on Coinbase's base chain.

241
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:05,480
Yeah.

242
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,480
Yeah, I don't know.

243
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:13,480
I opened up the, and it was like web only, like mobile only, and I opened up the page and then it all seemed very difficult.

244
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,480
And then I had other things to do.

245
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,480
But, but the, so that was just the, she was a shitting on, or whoever that was, they were just shitting on the overall thing.

246
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:31,480
But, but I think what happened was somehow somebody pulled something off where they ended up tying Twitter user names down to actual wallet addresses, which is like, I mean, it's a, it's a breach.

247
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,480
It's not the most end of the world type of thing, but whatever it's not like.

248
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,480
Yeah.

249
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,480
Well, I think they pulled like the whole, the whole database.

250
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:39,480
Yeah.

251
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:40,480
It was like 150,000 or something like that.

252
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:41,480
Yeah.

253
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,480
Which is a significant number by the way.

254
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:53,480
But then the flip side of that is like most of these, most of these networks that are currently working on chain, you know, you're already tying an identity to a wallet.

255
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,480
So, yeah, no, I'm with you.

256
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:56,480
Yeah.

257
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,480
Especially like we're tying a IPF or IPNS and whatever else to a wallet, right?

258
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,480
There's always like a couple of this kind of, it's kind of like,

259
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:05,480
Oh yeah.

260
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:06,480
shock revelation.

261
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,480
It turns out this stuff was on the blockchain all along.

262
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,480
There was one of those in June or two, if I remember.

263
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,480
Yeah.

264
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,480
Some fucking idiots that decided to be unprofitable by launching it.

265
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,480
Should have, should have, should have had a Twitter integration.

266
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:20,480
They would have been there.

267
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,480
Well, they changed their API.

268
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:23,480
Didn't they?

269
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:24,480
And start charging you for it.

270
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,480
Like again, we launched.

271
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:33,480
So like if we had launched, well, if we'd launched earlier, we would have put in the integration and then got rugged by Twitter.

272
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:34,480
So it wouldn't have fucking mattered.

273
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,480
And yeah.

274
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:39,480
Yeah.

275
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,480
So anyway, so can we, can we agree to not pay Rama since you put it in the wrong tab?

276
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,480
Is that good enough?

277
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:50,480
I'm pretty sure that 25% probably wouldn't be in the spirit of things.

278
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,480
I got to look after my ferret Aussie fellow.

279
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:56,480
I'm kidding.

280
00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,480
All right.

281
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:58,480
What else we got?

282
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,480
Well, time machine to 74.

283
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:07,480
First on the list, we've got the Harbor protocol exploited for 250 K of collateral.

284
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:19,480
This would be their Comdex stablecoin, CMS T currently about 200,000 less collateral has been provided than CMS T minted 300 K versus 500 K minted.

285
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,480
This is previously over collateralized coin.

286
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,480
Isn't anymore.

287
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,480
Yeah.

288
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480
I mean, fuck man, it's like a hack every day, right?

289
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:31,480
There is.

290
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:32,480
Yeah.

291
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:41,480
We don't, we don't really see like, so Comdex is a, what's interestingly different about this is that Comdex is in the cosmos ecosystem.

292
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:47,480
And it's pretty rare that we see like actually an exploit in the cosmos ecosystem.

293
00:14:47,480 --> 00:15:01,480
So I'd be wondering, I'd be interested to know what the actual details are behind this being exploited if it was, you know, like a vulnerability somewhere or one of those dumb ones where someone just gave out the admin key.

294
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:02,480
Right.

295
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,480
Or there was a shared key set somewhere, right?

296
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,480
Yeah.

297
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:07,480
That's so funny.

298
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,480
I can't even see, if you actually go to the heart, like I see the tweet, the tweet is there.

299
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:17,480
If I go to the actual Harbor protocol Twitter account, I don't see that in the timeline.

300
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,480
Is it because I'm stupid fucking, did they get rid of like time based timelines and Twitter completely?

301
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:24,480
Is that gone?

302
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,480
Is it now like, is it now all about this stupid algorithm or whatever the fuck they're doing?

303
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,480
I mean, I think that's been the case for many years.

304
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,480
Well, you used to be able to switch back and forth, right?

305
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,480
After Elon got it, did he, did he remove the whole regular, I just want to see a fucking time based timeline.

306
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:39,480
Like why do I?

307
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,480
It wasn't a time based timeline.

308
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,480
You had to do that in tweet deck.

309
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:44,480
Yeah.

310
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:45,480
Scroll down the time.

311
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,480
You could, but in the actual Twitter account, you could, it was always like, it was defaulted back, but you could always select it.

312
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,480
It was a painting house, but you could do it.

313
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:57,480
So anyway, I can't, I can't even find that tweet in the, in their whole history here, which is crazy going back to September of last year.

314
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,480
So was there, was this like, did they say why?

315
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,480
I don't see the follow up on this.

316
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:03,480
They say it like it exploded.

317
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,480
Like, do they know how?

318
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:12,480
It doesn't say it just says from what we've gathered so far, the exploiters have used the following address to perform all actions.

319
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,480
Are they, are they, is this a contract that sits on Comdex?

320
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:16,480
Is that what it is?

321
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,480
Oh, wait, I'm sorry.

322
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,480
Oh, I had, I'm sorry, I was in a browser that was logged in.

323
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,480
And that's why this was all fucked up.

324
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:23,480
Okay.

325
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:24,480
All right.

326
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,480
I see.

327
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,480
So they're, they're in lossing.

328
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,480
They have a couple of addresses about where this came from.

329
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:29,480
Yeah.

330
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:30,480
Yeah.

331
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:41,480
So this, you know, in the, in the, um, harbor protocol tweet, there is not a lot of information, but they say that they'll follow up with a, you know, post mortem.

332
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:42,480
Yeah.

333
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:43,480
So yeah.

334
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,480
A detailed incident report.

335
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:46,480
Dang it.

336
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:47,480
That sucks.

337
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:48,480
What was the value?

338
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:49,480
What'd they say?

339
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,480
200.

340
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,480
Is it already gone?

341
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,480
Like they, it's out of the pools, everything else?

342
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,480
Like, is it a value that they stole and just sitting around or are they, it's already flushed out?

343
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,480
I guess they've sucked out the, uh, that collateral through.

344
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,480
Nice.

345
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:09,480
So what was it they had the, uh, so it was in the ST Adam, Luna and wrapped Matic vaults.

346
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:10,480
I see.

347
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,480
I got you.

348
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:12,480
Yeah.

349
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,480
Okay.

350
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:19,480
And Ramas does not probably say like 250k like this is sounds big in a bad market money.

351
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,480
Isn't it like fucking definition of.

352
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,480
Well, I mean, not compared to other Ecos and another other, I mean, it's small in the grand scheme of things.

353
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,480
You're right.

354
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:28,480
But still $1 million.

355
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,480
Like what the fuck?

356
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,480
Well, I mean, fucking like, do you ever like with this podcast I had fucking Tara, like,

357
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,480
like UST, how much went up in smoke?

358
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,480
That was billions.

359
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:38,480
Yeah, for sure.

360
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,480
That was, that was.

361
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,480
This would have been two if it wasn't for Tara.

362
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:43,480
Well, yeah.

363
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,480
Yeah, man.

364
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,480
But those billions were fuck you money.

365
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,480
This is like fucking paying for your noodle.

366
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:50,480
It's all related, man.

367
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,480
It's all related.

368
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,480
This one was like as an ecosystem of shit coins.

369
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:55,480
Cosmos.

370
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:56,480
Almost.

371
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,480
Oh my.

372
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,480
You're very negative on coins these last few weeks, I gotta say.

373
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,480
You can't just say that.

374
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,480
Even the ones that earn it zero.

375
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:13,480
Even the ones that do pin the bills are going to zero like an extra going to zero.

376
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,480
They're there.

377
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,480
It's up 5% today.

378
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,480
Zero.

379
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,480
Well, I mean, it's a magic number that we wanted to be.

380
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,480
These are our beloved small caps you're talking about sir.

381
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,480
What I'm saying is that after a year of losing money as a validator business, I think like

382
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,480
on a number of the assets that we validate, it is understandable to get a little bit crabby

383
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,480
about some of the assets, perhaps not being.

384
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,480
Hey, so a fun thing happened.

385
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:44,480
We finally deactivated.

386
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,480
It turned out we were running a passage validator.

387
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,480
I thought that we had deactivated some time ago.

388
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,480
Yeah, I know, right?

389
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,480
You're just like, what the fuck?

390
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,480
It turned out it was just running like a zombie.

391
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,480
It had read the account.

392
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,480
It wasn't in.

393
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,480
It was it was in different.

394
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,480
Maybe that was that 16 bucks on AWS.

395
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,480
You got invoiced.

396
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,480
Yeah.

397
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,480
I mean, essentially, yeah, we had we had a song we had because everything's segregated

398
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,480
by by various different projects and whatnot.

399
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:21,480
It was just in a different account and we were paying for it because it was but we have a

400
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,480
corporate account.

401
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,480
We pay by invoicing, right?

402
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:32,480
Convoluted, but for smaller amounts of money, they can they just bill your card still.

403
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,480
If you don't pay it like within a period of this, we're auto-invoiced it.

404
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,480
Fuck it.

405
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,480
And that's been happening because you just get you get like a deluge of invoices in PDF

406
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,480
form at the end of the month and you go like, oh, and just escape notice basically for

407
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,480
a few months and turn out we'd been paying a few bucks every month for the server.

408
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,480
So finally turned it off and then page duty and everything goes totally mental.

409
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:56,480
Yeah.

410
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:01,480
And still actually haven't been able to silence all of the alerts because one of them is written

411
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,480
written badly.

412
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,480
We have like this absolutely everything's fucked alert.

413
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,480
But the way it's written is really bad.

414
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,480
And essentially the passage box going has dropped it below a threshold.

415
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:20,480
And it's just it's just erroring and it's revealed that that alert was written wrong all along.

416
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,480
As well as a bunch of other alerts that just obviously went off when we turned this box

417
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,480
off and had just been again, just not triggering because I had wondered to be fair.

418
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,480
I thought, you know, I thought we had turned it off like months and months and months ago,

419
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,480
but I was thinking like, I don't remember disconnecting any of the data sources to our

420
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:39,480
monitoring box.

421
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:44,480
I don't remember turning off any of the alerts, but I'm not getting any alerts.

422
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,480
That's probably fine.

423
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,480
The answer was it was still just just going away.

424
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,480
Just sign in sign in sign in trolling away in a corner doing nothing.

425
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,480
The big question is, is did you unbond your?

426
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,480
No, he's got nine banded.

427
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:01,480
100% self-bond.

428
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,480
You would you would show up really well on these validator ranking scenarios.

429
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,480
Yeah, it didn't unbond because I would involve syncing and anywhere they're doing a new chain

430
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:11,480
on me or something.

431
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,480
I ain't who fucking cares.

432
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:14,480
No, no, no.

433
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,480
So that I assume they've relaunched the chain again.

434
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,480
They did.

435
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,480
I missed an upgrade today.

436
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,480
The funny thing is, is that what is, did you say the upgrades today?

437
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:26,480
There was today.

438
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,480
I got, I was in the car for four hours and I got an alert that was down.

439
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,480
I actually, I thought I staged that, but I guess I, then I realized that wasn't staged

440
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:39,480
because they ran, I guess it was a non-breaking change at a block height.

441
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,480
It was a non-breaking change at a block height.

442
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,480
So they wanted a new version of the binary in the current folder.

443
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,480
Right.

444
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,480
And so at that height, it would move forward, but anyone who was not in, I guess they didn't

445
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,480
have that binary basically stopped peering and I couldn't, I couldn't actually.

446
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,480
So my issue was that I got to the, I got to the upgrade height, quote unquote.

447
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,760
Um, the binary would, it was peering, but it couldn't get actually moved beyond that

448
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,280
block, which is understandable.

449
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,600
I upgraded the binary, but then I couldn't find, then it app hashed on every, every block

450
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,480
on the, cause maybe it was the last block.

451
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,880
I don't know who the fuck knows, but I couldn't actually get through it.

452
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,200
So I ended up, I ended up actually pulling a snapshot and just getting it back going.

453
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480
So, but it was in the car for four hours and I'm looking at him like, and I was like, oh,

454
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:23,480
shit.

455
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,000
Cause I got the, cause my fucking Yakety sacks went off.

456
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,360
I told you this before, but my paid your duty call number is the Yakety sacks.

457
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,480
And so the Yakety sacks went off in the car and I was like, oh fuck, what is this?

458
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,800
And I was passing it like, oh, it's fine.

459
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,280
Like I could drive for four more hours.

460
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:36,280
It's fine.

461
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,280
It's a big deal.

462
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,280
Give a shit.

463
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,280
Yeah.

464
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,800
So anyway, so when I got home, I couldn't fix it.

465
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,160
I think similar thing on monitoring is about to go off for Mars because I think we are

466
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,560
literally bottom of the barrel, 75th in the Mars active set.

467
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,560
Yeah.

468
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:50,560
Not long left lads.

469
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:51,560
I'm going to draw.

470
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:52,560
We're going to draw.

471
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,560
No, he pulled out and then I got pulled in.

472
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,760
This was last week and I was in there for like two days.

473
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,600
I'm like, somebody's going to take this over some.

474
00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:59,600
I'm going to mess with it.

475
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:00,600
Like I was pulling keys.

476
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:01,600
I was like, I don't want to be in this fucking thing.

477
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,600
I don't even care.

478
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,160
Like literally I had, it was like $9 on the thing, right?

479
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,520
Like who gives a shit?

480
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:07,520
So I let it go.

481
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,040
And then somebody actually, somebody actually bonded above me.

482
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,040
So that worked out.

483
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,040
Yeah.

484
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,040
Somebody bonded above us as well.

485
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,840
I mean, again, it's not much to bond above us.

486
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:14,840
I don't know.

487
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,520
I don't know what 20,000 on Mars is worth now.

488
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,520
200 bucks.

489
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,520
Probably less than that.

490
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:23,520
Seven bucks.

491
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,120
I don't know what is actually I should.

492
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,920
20,000 miles.

493
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,960
By the way, am I the only one that fucking hates Minsky on 2.0?

494
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:30,960
I hate this.

495
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:31,960
We've already covered this.

496
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,960
This three steps.

497
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,480
I may be your way that week.

498
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,480
We'll be back.

499
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:37,480
I might have been.

500
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,280
I think it's, I think it's fucking awful.

501
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,280
You just go to dev dot min scan that I.

502
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,360
Oh, let's see.

503
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,640
I think I honestly, I am such not a fan.

504
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,800
I think it's, I think it's, I think it's a horrible.

505
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,680
Just go to dev dot min scan dot IO.

506
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:59,520
You have a 4400 Mars, which is fuck all 228 bucks.

507
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,520
Yeah, you're right.

508
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:01,520
$225.

509
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:02,520
Congrats.

510
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:03,520
Nice.

511
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,000
That server was on AWS for a while at 5%.

512
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,040
It was a R5 a Excel.

513
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,760
That seems like a bit over 5a Excel.

514
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,640
So for those of you AWS nerds, you're starting to do the mass in your head.

515
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,080
You're thinking Ram for a chain that doesn't have many transactions.

516
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,920
Well, yes, as it turns out, you're also thinking, ah, but Frey, hang on a minute.

517
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,840
The thing that's really expensive, it's not necessarily the RAM.

518
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,560
It's not necessarily the compute.

519
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,040
It's the storage.

520
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,040
How much storage is the egress, right?

521
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,920
You're playing being more niggas, aren't you?

522
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:40,920
No, no, no, no.

523
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,920
That work out.

524
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,880
I thought was the most expensive thing that you would, you would actually have.

525
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,320
No, we do.

526
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,800
It does cost, but much.

527
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,800
Which is cheap, right?

528
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:49,800
It's not that much.

529
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,840
No, not on AWS.

530
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,320
Because we're also not, we're not like doing fucking virtual boxes.

531
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:05,200
We're doing attach hosts, SSD volumes in elastic block store, snap shot it, backed up, archived

532
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,840
to Glacier.

533
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,480
Lots of in hindsight, additional redundancy that was not needed for shit.

534
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,480
Unnecessary.

535
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,480
Yeah.

536
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,480
Yeah.

537
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,040
Like massive over engineering for three nines, four nines, five nines, uptime for corporate

538
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,400
clients that really care about this stuff.

539
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,240
Per percent of the change doesn't really matter.

540
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,640
Well, because the thing is, like actually it turns out that like obviously, obviously,

541
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:35,840
any downtime you have is because of fuck ups, wrangles, bookage, around upgrades.

542
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,040
It's not storage, right?

543
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,040
It's not hard drives on the whole, you know, using SSDs.

544
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,240
So you don't get magnetic disks failing and stuff in the same way that like I remember

545
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,320
in the bad old days.

546
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,440
So I don't know, spend a lot of money on that kind of stuff.

547
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:56,000
So anyway, in conclusion, yeah, like spending, I think the drives on that were 500 gig.

548
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:01,880
Yeah, EBS blocks, possibly bigger, maybe a TV.

549
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,880
Or one out.

550
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,640
Honestly, at that, what happened to my focus?

551
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,920
At that range for a whole year, you might be able to afford a Raspberry Pi to run it.

552
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:11,920
Yeah.

553
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,160
So I mean, this is also part of the grumpiness, I think, is, you know, you're trying to, you

554
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,520
like, you're like, they're not all winners.

555
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,520
All right.

556
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:21,520
Where's my burn rate here?

557
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,840
And you're like, ah, well, that passage box will be one of the, one of the burn.

558
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,560
I do need to, I do need to go back and I need to, I need to take the access and stuff.

559
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,560
I really do.

560
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:32,560
Yeah.

561
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:38,360
So the funny thing, the funny thing and why I was laughing my ass off at shutting down

562
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:43,400
passages that just today, the email came out that active validators will get an end drop

563
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:51,640
of 55,555 passage 55,555 package each package.

564
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,640
Yeah.

565
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,640
Each that's $2,800.

566
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:55,640
Is that right?

567
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,640
I don't know.

568
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,640
What's that?

569
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,640
That's what is it.

570
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,440
A nickel, but I got to say when all those drop, it's not going to be a nickel anymore.

571
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,120
What's a, is a passage worth something?

572
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,600
It was a nickel, wasn't it?

573
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,600
Is that what I said?

574
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,600
Yeah.

575
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:07,600
It was five cents or something.

576
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,600
When it goes on stream, swap like at the end of the week.

577
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,120
Oh, wait, what the fuck was that?

578
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:13,520
Oh, I was talking about Mars.

579
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:14,520
My bad.

580
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,520
I was talking about Mars.

581
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,800
I think it was on 55,555 PAS.

582
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:25,760
And it gets on Osmosis so the investors could liquidate previously.

583
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,240
No, did I imagine that?

584
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,880
Passage will be listed on Osmosis.

585
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:30,880
You're right.

586
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,880
It's answering.

587
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:32,880
It's going to be following the launch.

588
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,880
That's right.

589
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:34,880
Yeah.

590
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:35,880
Yeah.

591
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:36,880
I was getting confused.

592
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,880
Stream swap on the hour 29th.

593
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,640
Have any of you guys done a stream swap yet?

594
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,360
I keep missing them.

595
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:44,840
They're pretty fucking brief.

596
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:45,920
Yeah, me too.

597
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,920
I tried it on.

598
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,400
It was it's not say it was oh and then in power I tried an Osmo enclosure.

599
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,480
I could I really had missed a, I missed a fucking boat.

600
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,960
And what was the stream swap like?

601
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Feel like the omniflex one happened while I was asleep.

602
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,960
Stream swap is like it's the new hotness when it comes to price discovery.

603
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:13,040
So instead of like just, you know, the old, come on, what they call the old mechanism

604
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,240
where you basically they have a big pool of tokens and just buy them out of the pool.

605
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:25,120
And the more you buy, the more the price goes up or down up and then, but it sort of also

606
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:28,520
had a time varying curve to it as well.

607
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:35,840
Whereas stream swap is you all basically pool your, your money into the stream swap and you

608
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,400
don't get the token straight away, but there is still like a price varying mechanism based

609
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,400
on time, I think.

610
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:49,440
This sounds like exactly the kind of DeFi shit that you love and I like not going to

611
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,440
use it.

612
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,440
Yeah.

613
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,440
Wow.

614
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,320
I mean, your basic, your basic is, I thought it was kind of like you were pledging one

615
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,120
token to help to find the liquidity pools upfront, right?

616
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,200
So there's who like, you know, they'll, they can do it against the different token like

617
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,880
Adam or, but you're not defining the pool like it doesn't, all the fun right?

618
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,360
Just go straight to whoever the fuck put all the tokens in the pool to begin with.

619
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,360
Okay.

620
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,960
It was like a one sided pool and people buy tokens out of it essentially over a period

621
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:22,960
of time.

622
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,160
And then, but I'm, so I'm not sure.

623
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,960
I think at the end of it, everybody gets the tokens at the same value, but you put money

624
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,480
into it over time and that sort of determines the end value.

625
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,200
But that's an interesting mechanism.

626
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,520
It's busy though.

627
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,840
Like to your point, like I, within minutes it's done, right?

628
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Like they get to that, I guess it's a volume target, right?

629
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,960
They're trying to get to in terms of number of locked and that's it.

630
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,280
Well, I thought it was a time target.

631
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,640
It's right in that case.

632
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,920
So people are just bidding on the asset and then averaging, then shipping.

633
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,960
No, like, you know, it's like.

634
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,400
I've probably, but.

635
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,160
So say they put a million tokens in there, right?

636
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:08,600
Of token X, then, and then set the time period at an hour.

637
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:15,240
If in an hour, someone only puts in like one USDC and no one else puts anything in, then

638
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,240
I'm pretty sure the one person gets the million tokens for one USDC.

639
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:20,240
I see.

640
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Yeah.

641
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:27,640
If two people put in a USDC each, then, you know, they get 500,000 tokens for one USDC

642
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,640
each.

643
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:29,640
Yeah, that's great.

644
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,600
Like somebody's like, Coizar Adam was 12 hours, Coizar Osmo was 12 hours, Flix was both, like

645
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,800
Flix Osmo was an hour and so was Empower Osmo was an hour.

646
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,640
And they were, like, they were gone like five minutes, right?

647
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,880
Which I guess is the, the vine or, or no, it's not, it's, so you're saying your point

648
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,560
is that it's open for the hour.

649
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,920
So the more that goes in there, it just gets split.

650
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,920
Yeah.

651
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:50,920
Okay.

652
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,920
All right.

653
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,840
So it's just determined by the total amount of like the lateral, let's put, no, well,

654
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,440
total amount of, you know, token two that's put in.

655
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,200
Oh, there's a StreamSwap Telegram bot.

656
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,840
How DJ does that?

657
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,200
I mean, give me a there.

658
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,200
Yo, let's get this.

659
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,200
See you on the go.

660
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:15,160
Anyway, the next on the list from our news researcher, Ramah.

661
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,760
So rain.

662
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:22,880
This is one of the, we haven't, we haven't really talked about this before other than

663
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,720
briefly mentioned it and then just cringed and walked away.

664
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,720
But this is the UI that we were talking about.

665
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:37,400
Everyone was sort of tweeting about a little bit on Twitter a while ago where you can put

666
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,880
in like an address, like Cosmos address.

667
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,560
I think that they've only got a limited number of networks at the moment.

668
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,000
You got Osmosis, Cosmos Hub and Celestia testnet.

669
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,160
And basically you, you enter, well, it's got a couple of different functions, but the one

670
00:31:54,160 --> 00:32:02,400
that everyone's talking about is the trail and it creates like a map of transfer addresses

671
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:09,280
in and transfer addresses out of a particular account in the IBC multi chain world.

672
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:15,080
So you can see like, you know, if you say there's an Osmosis account that someone uses

673
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:22,800
for just general transactions, but you can see like, all right, so they're sending in

674
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:30,440
tokens from Axelar and Juno and Chuaua from these other particular addresses.

675
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,160
And then you can, you know, click on those on where they're getting them.

676
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,160
Who built this, you know?

677
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,160
I don't know.

678
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,160
It's called range.

679
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,400
I don't know who has made it.

680
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,040
It's range security at Twitter.

681
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,040
This looks like Todd built something like this too, right?

682
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,840
Remember, remember blockchain built?

683
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,280
If this was you, Todd, fuck you.

684
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,280
It could be.

685
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,160
No, I remember he built the same type of tool, but I forget he built it like an app.

686
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,800
It was like a specific, I forget what it was, like an analytics app, but basically allowed

687
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,760
him to be able to show a, his was more about the branching aspect of things like I started

688
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,760
a wallet and I looked at like a transaction between different wallets.

689
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,000
I could trail things back.

690
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,200
I think he kind of brought that out when we were going through the Prop 16 bullshit.

691
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,680
Javi did it in a spreadsheet as well.

692
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,560
And then just, that's right.

693
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,240
And then, and then Todd had like this, I forget what the app is.

694
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,160
I could hold if he's watching, I hope he'll probably tell us, but it was like a pretty

695
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,920
cool thing where he basically brought a bunch of data in and it just kind of, it built a

696
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,200
visual around where things were going from X to Y to Z.

697
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,440
So this is kind of the same idea, right?

698
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,360
It's basically a trail of transactions across accounts to be able to tie ownership or try

699
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,960
or maybe not ownership, but at least tie some sort of relationship between different types

700
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:40,960
of wallets.

701
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,280
And I was going to meet up the other week or like a talk and one of the people that was

702
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:51,240
talking was just like some salesperson effectively from one of these on chain analytics, chain

703
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,760
analytics, you know, they've all got crap names, companies and they're like, I know

704
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,720
what you're thinking.

705
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,120
This is terrible for privacy.

706
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:06,920
Well, we're a member of the like insert bullshit privacy alliance certification here.

707
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:12,640
And so we actually care, we spend 20% of our dev time working on privacy related initiatives

708
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,080
and you're just like, great, go fuck yourself.

709
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,280
What do you want to fucking gold stuff?

710
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,280
Fuck off.

711
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,400
Like what is the purpose of what you're doing?

712
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:28,200
It's you just fucking wanking off to make a few bucks from like scared people that want

713
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,680
to comply with AML.

714
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,240
Like it's just fucking garbage.

715
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:41,080
You know, so the fucking half of London's owned by fucking Russian oligarchs and like,

716
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,840
you know, Saudi princes that like cutting up people that disagree with them.

717
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:51,600
Like, do you really think that the blockchain is the fucking, you know, the real money

718
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,640
laundering is happening elsewhere lads and the air cover for it is at a political and

719
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,240
institutional level.

720
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:58,240
Let's be real.

721
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:02,280
Although speaking of air cover and speaking of oligarchs and speaking of people who like

722
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:09,440
to launder money, as of a couple of hours ago, I believe pregosin has had a sudden engine

723
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:16,040
failure courtesy of the Russian state and is now an ex-dissident of the Russian regime.

724
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:22,560
So, you know, in the words of Omar from the wire, in the words of Omar from the wire,

725
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,280
if you come at the king, your best not miss.

726
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,280
Yeah, okay.

727
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,480
In the words of Bill Clinton, no.

728
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:30,480
Who's that?

729
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,200
I think it's the little guy with the gray hair who is the president.

730
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:34,200
We got him.

731
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,200
George Bush.

732
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,200
Yeah.

733
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,200
It was a bomb.

734
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:38,200
It was a bomb.

735
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,200
We got him.

736
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,200
Yeah.

737
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,200
Yeah.

738
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,840
It was a stomach bin Laden and then a bomb was like, oh, I was the only say we got him.

739
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,840
That was the one.

740
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,840
Oh, is it Obama?

741
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:47,840
Yeah.

742
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,680
When they went into the compound, that was Obama.

743
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,520
But like George was standing on the fucking mission accomplished with the, you know, we're

744
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:55,520
done.

745
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,480
I said, my daddy couldn't pee pee pee.

746
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,400
I did 80s video.

747
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,200
Pew, pew, pew.

748
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:09,000
Me, while he was shooting somebody and then that person's apologizing to jet, you know,

749
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,320
run all over this range Twitter account.

750
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,320
Why?

751
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,280
I don't like I don't like teams like this that have a product they joined eight months

752
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,320
ago that have no path to profitability and no team page.

753
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,640
Are we still talking about precautions playing being shot down?

754
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,640
Because I'm confused.

755
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,640
No, I'm back on range.

756
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,640
Crypto.

757
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:36,880
And that has a part is this ability and it's it's providing mercenaries to unstable African

758
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,360
regimes and then acquiring their mineral wealth and then laundering that money through

759
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,800
the city of London.

760
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,480
It's really effective actually as a profit generating engine.

761
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,960
Wagner group.

762
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:51,960
Yeah.

763
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:52,960
Yeah.

764
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,840
So you have a lot of South African business going on there.

765
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,840
Exactly.

766
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,320
Well, you know, like one of the most successful private military firms of all time was executive

767
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,080
outcomes, which was the it was basically the South African special forces that were in

768
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,120
the bush wars in like Angola and stuff.

769
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,280
And then after the end of apartheid, a lot of the military got reformed and they just

770
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:23,640
went, well, we'll just go be a massive paramilitary force all over Africa and get loads of mineral

771
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,640
wealth.

772
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:25,640
And they did that.

773
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,680
And well, I mean, yeah, that's what Wagner's doing.

774
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,160
So they go and help governments in coups.

775
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:39,240
They go and they go and step in with governments in coups and protect assets from being taken

776
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:46,400
by the people and then get contracts with the coup government and then sometimes topple

777
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,560
that government if there's better offer.

778
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,560
Money's good.

779
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,560
Yeah.

780
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,560
Why not?

781
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,560
As long as you get to keep the resource, right?

782
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Yeah.

783
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,720
I mean, it's basically the plotline of Mount Gif four ish.

784
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:04,000
I mean, Hideo Kojima once again, predicting that life will be stranger than a Hideo Kojima

785
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,000
game.

786
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:13,000
But yeah, I really recommend if you're interested in the history of private military organizations,

787
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,840
the book Corporate Warriors by PW Singer, I've recommended on this podcast before.

788
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,200
Genuinely fascinating was written at the end of the 90s, pre 911.

789
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,280
And literally every single thing in it came true.

790
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,680
It's just like, hey, if we see these trends continue, a load of things are going to happen

791
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,880
about in geopolitics that are going to be really complex.

792
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,240
And like literally all of them happen.

793
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,400
And you just like, yeah, I guess he did his research.

794
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,160
All right.

795
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,120
So back on range.

796
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,520
So one last thing I'll mention on range, some of these things that are on here is I would

797
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,520
never use.

798
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,920
So the alerting looks pretty handy.

799
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:59,040
So there's things in the alerting where you can set alerts for state change of a contract

800
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,320
which is like pretty interesting.

801
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,560
Yeah, I signed in, they've got my details now.

802
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:05,560
You deets.

803
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:15,880
My deets, they can they can they can now email me at a block chain.

804
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:16,880
Big balls.

805
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:17,880
Like Google.

806
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,880
Dick knows blockchain.

807
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:20,880
Any.

808
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:21,880
Org.

809
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:22,880
Yeah.

810
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:23,880
Yeah.

811
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,200
That's enough on that's enough on range.

812
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:34,200
But I called that run before so he was actually pulling up the the wall that came out from

813
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,960
that convex exploit that we were talking about an hour and a half ago.

814
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,840
So he was pulling the details of the age of that wallet, which is the Osmos wallet, and

815
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,640
then came basically on ramp through secret and what came through there as well as axelar.

816
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:48,640
That's kind of cool, I guess.

817
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,640
I mean, it's good.

818
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,720
I guess it's good from an exploit perspective from a from a general, hey, let's go figure

819
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:55,960
out who the fucks got what.

820
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,880
I kind of don't like it, but you know, it is what it is.

821
00:39:58,880 --> 00:39:59,880
That was range.

822
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:00,880
Yeah.

823
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:01,880
Yeah.

824
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:02,880
So I'll put a link in the I have a share.

825
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,840
I'm not capturing links for shit because, you know, typical, but I'll I'll try to put

826
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,840
I have a link in the show that's a Romer's tweet or related to the Osmos wallet associated

827
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:16,640
to to this convex exploit that we were talking about for our harbor exploit, I should say

828
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,040
not context.

829
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:26,480
So the next item of news is the neutron eats duality and Adam Maxie's are not pleased is

830
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,240
the headline here.

831
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:29,360
So I haven't read ahead on this one.

832
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,360
I did.

833
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:37,240
I did see it in Twitter, but I haven't read ahead in, you know, the explanation in the

834
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:40,560
spreadsheet because I didn't know where it was.

835
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:48,160
So I couldn't do that when I got up at four o'clock this morning to discord as a sir,

836
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,160
but it's usually do.

837
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,160
Oh, right.

838
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,440
Oh, it's been Davis on the panel.

839
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,440
Is that it?

840
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,360
Is that a is that a Adam Dow?

841
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,560
Well, for folks who are listening at Ben Davis said we funded range or last batch.

842
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,560
I think it's Osmosis.

843
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:07,560
Okay.

844
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,040
I thought it was that I thought it was Adam.

845
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,040
It was cosmos.

846
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,280
The a double thing.

847
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,280
The Adam.

848
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,040
After some accelerators, isn't it?

849
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,040
It is.

850
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,040
Right.

851
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,040
Okay.

852
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,040
Ben, can we get paid?

853
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,560
Can we get a donation to the day?

854
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:24,560
Yeah, I do.

855
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:25,560
It's a lot of eight out.

856
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Yeah.

857
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,560
All right.

858
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:28,560
So eight out funded, funded part of range.

859
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,560
That's cool.

860
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:30,560
All right.

861
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,560
I mean, it looks like a good tool.

862
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:32,960
I mean, it should stuff like that.

863
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:40,240
It'd be nice to know who's behind it and, you know, like what's the what's the what's

864
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:43,440
the long term to answer your question about can we get paid?

865
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,880
Ben Davis says for this question mark.

866
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:46,880
Absolutely.

867
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,880
Fuckin' nut.

868
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,280
Hey, man, we provide value to service at entertaining.

869
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,280
I know I was thinking about it.

870
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,280
Wednesday night.

871
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,840
So, so, so in that tweet, it said that this was the first acquisition.

872
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,280
Well, this has Cosmos protocol merger.

873
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,680
How do you want to say if this is the first acquisition of merger in the cosmos?

874
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,680
That seems.

875
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Well, let me go on the, wow, I mean, I don't know.

876
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:11,560
Hang on.

877
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,480
Let me, let me go on the full, the full blurb here.

878
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:22,920
So, neutron and duality have proposed a merger of the two protocols on the neutron.

879
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,160
This would mean the features of duality will be implemented on neutron, enabling synergies

880
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:35,080
between neutron, duality and Astroport LPs to bring more value to neutron and fees to

881
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,680
the Cosmos hub.

882
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:42,840
Adam Maxey's a seething as this means they only get 25% of fees instead of the previously

883
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,040
announced 100% from duality's initial proposal.

884
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,400
So Adam gets fucked again.

885
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,920
I'm supposed to laugh when you say that.

886
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,400
Hey, I don't have any atoms.

887
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:56,400
So I'm good.

888
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:57,400
Me either.

889
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,400
Yeah.

890
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,640
I've never held Adam like me either.

891
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,000
Everyone in this fucking system is an Adam Maxey.

892
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,880
I'm just like, they do nothing.

893
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,760
I wasn't, I wasn't early enough for it.

894
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,080
I just didn't, I didn't get it when I joined.

895
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,640
I'm like, give me that sweet shit coin, son.

896
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:21,400
Stupidly cashed out a load of Juno when Juno was higher than Adam into, wait, is this

897
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,400
way round?

898
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:23,400
Wait, which way did you do it?

899
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:24,400
Yeah.

900
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,200
When Juno was higher than Adam, I cashed out Juno into Adam, but Adam was doing really

901
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,200
well anyway.

902
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,480
So it wasn't like a big, great play.

903
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,600
And then obviously Juno went even higher.

904
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,440
And I was like, oh, but I should have kept it there and then sold it.

905
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:43,200
And then both crashed and it just tanked the value because we held it too long and it ended

906
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:48,280
up being, and we had to pay tax obviously on the, the Juno that we held.

907
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,560
And then when you do the trade, it's a forex trade.

908
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,080
So you pay, there's a taxable event.

909
00:43:54,080 --> 00:44:00,920
So we locked in that price to, to pay the tax on the atom when it was super valuable.

910
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:06,560
And then when we had to sell the atom to pay the tax bill on the trade, the atom sell like

911
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,560
covered the tax bill.

912
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,000
It was like nothing left or something like that.

913
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,360
It was amazing.

914
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:18,600
I really think you need to like get a worse accountant.

915
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,840
You know, there probably is an element of truth to this.

916
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,200
Someone who doesn't understand the law quite as well.

917
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,200
Yeah.

918
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,960
Someone who's like a little less like, a little plausible deniability situation going on,

919
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:30,960
right?

920
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,200
You know, like, I don't know how that works.

921
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:33,680
Let's just go with this.

922
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,800
He's less detail oriented, but has a very good insurance.

923
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:37,800
Exactly.

924
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:38,800
Yeah.

925
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,800
He's a good insurance.

926
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:40,800
He's a good insurance.

927
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,800
A good yellow attitude.

928
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,800
You know.

929
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,040
Who has the paperwork, right?

930
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,680
He has the certifications.

931
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:46,680
Well intentioned.

932
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,240
Maybe not so much upstairs.

933
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:49,240
Yeah.

934
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:54,120
Maybe just like, kind of like, just a really, people go like, he's a really nice guy.

935
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,120
He's a great guy.

936
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,040
Someone who, someone who only understands the concept of cash basis.

937
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,040
Exactly.

938
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:07,480
If, if I only understood the call, if, if, if you could just do all the stuff on cash

939
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:08,480
basis.

940
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,480
I mean, yeah, that would be great.

941
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:12,480
That'd be great.

942
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,480
That'd be great.

943
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,480
Yeah.

944
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:15,480
I just, most of the US, come on, maybe.

945
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,480
The days are longer.

946
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,480
It doesn't turn into fall and August.

947
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:21,480
Come on over.

948
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:22,480
Come on over.

949
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:23,480
Cash based accounting.

950
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:31,000
We have a range of like, between the three of us, we have like the full range of strategies

951
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,640
is like, SERP is just full cash basis.

952
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:42,120
I'm like cash basis plus like a trading stock type of thing, which kind of.

953
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,760
I would rather have what you have to be honest, but yeah, go ahead.

954
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,240
Oh, you've got the same as me.

955
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:48,280
No, I would rather have what you like.

956
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,880
That option that you run, I think is pretty good.

957
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,080
I'm not sure if that works here, but.

958
00:45:53,080 --> 00:46:00,480
And then Dr. Frey is just fucking full compliance with the most bullshit part of the law.

959
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,680
Paying tax on every teabag and shit.

960
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:05,680
Yeah.

961
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:06,680
I don't know.

962
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:07,680
I've, I've.

963
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:08,680
I've seen that.

964
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,680
I've won the health service.

965
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,680
12 cents, but you drank it when it was worth 13 cents.

966
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,280
So you're the penny you can't.

967
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,480
You can't fuck off.

968
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,000
I mean, the thing is, yeah.

969
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,000
So okay.

970
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,360
So obviously the company has paid shitloads tax, you know, whatever.

971
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,640
But I think even possibly possibly because I don't really trade crypto, I don't really

972
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:36,520
get paid in crypto because, you know, work for this company.

973
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,760
I think actually just because of the sheer cost of having a baby in any other country

974
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,080
and the fact that it costs you nothing here.

975
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:51,760
I think personally I am quits in for the last like two tax years, like all the prenatal

976
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:58,240
care plus postnatal care plus, you know, surgery, a bunch of other shit that's gone down.

977
00:46:58,240 --> 00:46:59,240
Yeah.

978
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:01,840
I think we must be seriously quits in on that.

979
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,920
So you know, swings and roundabouts, right?

980
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,920
Although the reality is in this country right now, if you're paying taxes, you're actually

981
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,960
paying taxes for Starbucks and Amazon to not pay fucking tax and the government to, you

982
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,840
know, plug the whole of Brexit where they fuck the economy.

983
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,080
So you know, there's actually no point in paying taxes because the NHS isn't going to

984
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:26,560
get the money. It's going to go to fucking six toad pony fucking aristocrats, bad decisions,

985
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,080
you know, paying off the bill on that.

986
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,520
So fucking great one.

987
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:31,520
Cheers, everybody.

988
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:32,520
Yeah.

989
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,320
Like I definitely feel like I could do better with my tax money than what the government

990
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,320
can.

991
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:46,000
The only thing is, is that like, you know, to effectively like help the country in, you

992
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:52,160
know, in some sort of capacity by through, you know, public goods, which is kind of what

993
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,920
taxes for like, I would have to go and form a coalition with all of my neighbors or something

994
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,240
to all, you know, you know, form a local Dow.

995
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,920
So form like a real life.

996
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:09,600
I mean, I think we point to like, you know, fucking fill the potholes and shit.

997
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,520
It'd be kind of annoying.

998
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:12,520
It sounds time consuming.

999
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,020
I'd rather pay the government.

1000
00:48:14,020 --> 00:48:19,720
Quickly you end up with kind of anarcho-syndicalism, and then you end up with a government and

1001
00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:21,840
then you're like, well, we're back to square one.

1002
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:28,440
The universe brain play is probably actually to just go into politics and then you become

1003
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:29,440
the house, right?

1004
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,440
House always wins.

1005
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,080
Just become a house or a launch chain or launch a chain.

1006
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,240
And then you go directly to prison.

1007
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:42,600
You just speed run going to prison.

1008
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,560
That is actually one of those things that was in this country anyway, boys would be

1009
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:50,360
boys, very boys would be boys until about a few months ago.

1010
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,320
And we mentioned on the podcast last week, there's a regulation change happening in the

1011
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:54,320
UK.

1012
00:48:54,320 --> 00:49:00,320
My understanding is that that would mean as of the 3rd of October, it's no longer boys

1013
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,320
would be boys.

1014
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:06,920
It's pay the 10,000 pounds to be regulated plus do all your paperwork or you go to prison

1015
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:07,920
for two years.

1016
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,200
So I think it has literally become for what?

1017
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:18,200
For launching some sort of security type of structure on a blockchain?

1018
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,400
Crucially marketing actually, I think is where they get you.

1019
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,480
What marketing for what?

1020
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,480
For investment?

1021
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:25,480
Represent the asset.

1022
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,920
I think it's the representation, like the marketing of the asset, which bear in mind,

1023
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,960
my understanding, I'm not a lawyer.

1024
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,920
Go and get a lawyer, regulation lawyer if you are in the UK and you think this affects

1025
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,200
you.

1026
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,560
I think the definition for marketing is quite broad.

1027
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,000
If you're like, I am launching a chain that could be construed as marketing.

1028
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,080
This is my understanding if you say it publicly.

1029
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,080
So who knows?

1030
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:50,080
Fuck it.

1031
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,080
I'll put it in the notes.

1032
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,080
NFTs uncovered though.

1033
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,160
NFTs uncovered meant all the NFTs you fucking like.

1034
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,400
I'm not a lawyer.

1035
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,560
Definitely double check that before you start an NFT project in the UK.

1036
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,480
I'm going to hold comment on that.

1037
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:09,320
This draft, I'll link a show notes of this duality protocol merger document or forum,

1038
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,960
I guess on the neutron.org forums.

1039
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,600
This thing reads like a fucking, this is a three legged race situation.

1040
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:25,280
There was a Dan Lyons who was a reporter in the US famously back in the early 2000s started

1041
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,760
a blog where it was called fake Steve Jobs.

1042
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,200
I hope you guys heard about this.

1043
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,560
This might be before your time a little bit.

1044
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,840
But there was a, when Steve came back to Apple and it was like kind of the early days of

1045
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:42,680
the iPod and like the growth and like whatever, he started this fake Steve Jobs blog, which

1046
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:43,680
is hilarious.

1047
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,000
Like just kind of like fuck all this and blah, blah, blah.

1048
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,920
I'm on the mission and all this type of stuff.

1049
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,640
And he wrote, there's this famous article, I'll link it as well, which I think is still

1050
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,480
on the web actually around this three legged the race when I think Microsoft was talking

1051
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,200
about buying, I think when they were talking about buying Blackberry.

1052
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:05,000
So back in the early days when the iPhone was taking off and Blackberry was getting

1053
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,040
crushed and Microsoft had no fucking idea what was going on.

1054
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,120
Balmer was shitting on the iPhone about not having keys and all this type stuff right

1055
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,000
in the early like 2007, 2008 days.

1056
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,920
And then there was a rumor that Microsoft I think was going to buy Blackberry or no,

1057
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:18,920
no, I'm sorry.

1058
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:20,880
It was Microsoft was going to buy, that's right.

1059
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,800
Balmer was going to buy Yahoo.

1060
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:23,800
That's right.

1061
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:24,800
That's what it was.

1062
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,400
It was going to buy Yahoo because they had no like internet structure and they were like

1063
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,440
worried about like all this type of stuff related to email accounts and all this type

1064
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:32,600
of things.

1065
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,560
And there's a great three legged.

1066
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:39,200
And so Dan Lyons as posting as like a fake Steve Jobs wrote this type of thing around

1067
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,360
when two losers get together and when they're getting beaten by something else or they're

1068
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,400
getting beat by the market or they're getting beat by a third party or competitor, they

1069
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,000
start buying each other to try to like whatever.

1070
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,160
And it's called like the three legged race where like you tie this other shit to you

1071
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,040
and you keep tying more shit to you because you're just pushing off the inevitable that

1072
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,360
there's no value here.

1073
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,080
But you keep buying things to be able to show the shareholders and show other people that

1074
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,080
there's something.

1075
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:04,080
Hey, there's something here.

1076
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,080
There's no one shit.

1077
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,080
Like look at us.

1078
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:11,200
Like we're making some case and this duality proposal reads 100% like a three legged race.

1079
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,480
Like it totally it totally has that same type of like tone to it.

1080
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,480
So anyway, it looks like I just think slipknot.

1081
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,480
I can't I bet you can't.

1082
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,480
So now I will.

1083
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,480
I don't know.

1084
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:23,480
I've not very well.

1085
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,400
It's there weren't my thing growing up.

1086
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:32,560
But like, you know, you hit a certain age and you just like sometimes I want to go to

1087
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:39,680
a metal night at a club and just get pissed and just listen to loud guitar music, right?

1088
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:45,520
And you have to lower your standards a bit because it has to be mainstream enough that

1089
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:51,480
everybody who owns a black t-shirt in the metropolitan area you live closest to will

1090
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,520
recognize that song immediately.

1091
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:00,560
So it's like, you know, it's to be fair, I was about to say it's like fucking chop suey

1092
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:04,720
versus some of the doubt, but actually that's a fucking smashing song massive banger.

1093
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:06,160
But it has to be like that.

1094
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,560
Like you know, so there's a slipknot is kind of part of the course as soon as you hit that

1095
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:17,800
kind of, you know, you go to one of those nights a few times a year or go to the the

1096
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,680
scientists go at a festival where they're playing where there's a rock channel, you

1097
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,240
know, again, that's a really niche.

1098
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:28,560
I feel like an alienated both of you with the idea of going to a go to rock.

1099
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,600
So it's like, I can't go to the fucking side of disco at a festival.

1100
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:37,360
It's just like number one, the festival part number two, the side of disco part.

1101
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,960
It's just like a saying it chief is what I saw.

1102
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,120
Niles got really nice late.

1103
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,280
You have a nice late any right now.

1104
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,280
Golden hour baby.

1105
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,840
It's like early golden hour.

1106
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:48,840
Yeah.

1107
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,480
It's like a reflection of light off some dirty tiles hitting your dirty window.

1108
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,280
You got to ruin it there.

1109
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,720
Yeah, this is pretty.

1110
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,560
We don't have the news.

1111
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:02,560
Is that it?

1112
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,800
Yeah, we were the bits and pieces that all this.

1113
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,520
Yeah, we'll fuck all this.

1114
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:14,720
But so I gather because we've so we've been trying to obviously pay our invoices this

1115
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,680
week as a Dow because we're a Dow, Dow, Dow now.

1116
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:25,760
We are gay gay gay gay Gio and Gio and Gio and Gio.

1117
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,960
Gio and Gio and Gio and Dow.

1118
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:29,960
Yeah, go down.

1119
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:30,960
Go down.

1120
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:31,960
Go down.

1121
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:32,960
Yeah, exactly.

1122
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:33,960
Go down.

1123
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:34,960
Time and saying it.

1124
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,760
Just got to say it very quickly.

1125
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:42,080
We've been trying to pay our invoices and having admittedly we've got our multi chain

1126
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:47,600
accounts set up on Osmosis now so we can try and actually get some stable coins into our

1127
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,200
Dow in order to actually I think we have seven days until that happens.

1128
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,320
But no, no, I don't do it during the show.

1129
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,920
Like, oh, you did execute it.

1130
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:56,920
Boom.

1131
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:57,920
How the fuck did you do that?

1132
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,040
Just I am I see into the matrix.

1133
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,440
I am to do it.

1134
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,400
We do have an Osmo address.

1135
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,400
Oh, it's Axel USDC.

1136
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:07,400
All right.

1137
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,040
Wait, does it mean I have to use axel or or at least something else that turns an axle

1138
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,040
you.

1139
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,040
So it's USDC versus.

1140
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:16,200
Yeah, yeah.

1141
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,240
But it's USDC and Juno.

1142
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:19,600
Where the fuck does that come from then?

1143
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,200
And then but it's Axel USDC on Osmosis.

1144
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,200
And look, here's the situation.

1145
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,760
Okay, here's the situation either way.

1146
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:28,760
Right.

1147
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,680
In I don't know how business accounts work in the States, right?

1148
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:36,800
But in the UK, right, you get an app on your phone and you can just send international

1149
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,560
payments as a business from your phone.

1150
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,040
You just get their I-Band number.

1151
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:42,040
You send it.

1152
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,000
It takes about two minutes, right?

1153
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,840
And then it gets automatically sent in the bank feed to my accountants to the company

1154
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:49,840
accountants, right?

1155
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,360
Yeah, I'll still at the web three way.

1156
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:53,360
Right.

1157
00:55:53,360 --> 00:56:00,960
So this entire process, I am just like, if somebody can provide even a one line invoice,

1158
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,840
it can be done within 10 minutes.

1159
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:12,720
And then all I have to do as as as the CTO company got its ridiculous when you like,

1160
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,800
you know, you know, when you have an early career thing where you go in and do for a

1161
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,600
job and you're like, this job title sounds really senior.

1162
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,520
I don't know why this job title sounds so senior.

1163
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:25,000
And you find out there's like three technical people in the entire company and they're just

1164
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,560
like, yeah, holy fuck, this place is fucked.

1165
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,440
And you're like, that's why they're interviewing a senior engineer and they don't know what

1166
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:32,440
that is.

1167
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,800
Anyway, whatever you just have to do, go do like the clearance of the payments at the

1168
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:36,800
end of the month.

1169
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,760
So the whole process is probably four to five minutes worth of work, right?

1170
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,480
Since with payment.

1171
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:48,480
So already the USDC and Dow thing is a little bit of overhead in order to do a payment.

1172
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,520
I would say, but it is the future.

1173
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:51,520
So we're going to do it.

1174
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:52,720
We're going to do it.

1175
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:55,560
We believe in the glorious Dow future.

1176
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,400
I don't know how the fuck to do it.

1177
00:56:58,400 --> 00:56:59,400
I know.

1178
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,560
So we have so there's an axle.

1179
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,400
So we have an Osmo address that Osmo addresses is the address of the Dow, right?

1180
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:07,920
Okay, that makes sense.

1181
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:08,920
So I have a deposit.

1182
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,240
So there's a deposit.

1183
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:17,800
Oh, why to be able to deposit actually USDC, but I'm adding myself as the I guess this

1184
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:18,800
makes sense actually.

1185
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,720
So I'm adding myself as my yeah, yeah, yeah.

1186
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,320
Okay, I'm joining from that.

1187
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,800
So if I get actually USDC on this address, I should be able to send it.

1188
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:28,800
Okay.

1189
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:33,400
The real pain in the ass is that you have to send it to the other address is the fucking

1190
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,240
but how does well, I would use it.

1191
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,360
I would use a deposit.

1192
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,240
I would use a token deposit from the webpage, right?

1193
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,920
Like I can't use the deposit.

1194
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:47,360
Like you have like, I'm sure you can send it to the address directly, but using the

1195
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:53,880
deposit on the page, it looks like it actually has to be in your account that is correct.

1196
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,480
Your account that's on the Dow.

1197
00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:00,000
I mean, obviously, whatever the fucking wallet is that you've got opening Kepler at the

1198
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,000
time because it wouldn't know who to assign it to, right?

1199
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,560
Because I assume what is it has to a song?

1200
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:05,920
It goes into the Dow.

1201
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,000
It's not Nulls coins in the Dow.

1202
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,000
It's the Dow.

1203
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,000
You're probably right.

1204
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,000
It probably doesn't matter.

1205
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,000
You're probably right.

1206
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,000
It probably doesn't matter.

1207
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,360
Abstract that away.

1208
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:15,360
Abstraction.

1209
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,360
Throw a grand and see what happens.

1210
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,040
The bigger issue is I don't have $1,000 on anything related to Cosmos.

1211
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:28,720
I was thinking as well, like as a company, we either stay or every issue is in, you

1212
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:35,360
know, currency that we can pay because Jeff Bezos does not fucking accept Juno.

1213
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,360
How is that unbelievable?

1214
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:38,360
I know.

1215
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:39,360
How much do we...

1216
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,400
Who's Jimmy Smallballs?

1217
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,400
How much do we need to put in?

1218
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:43,400
It's you, isn't it?

1219
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:44,400
No, it's not me.

1220
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,400
It has to be you, Jimmy Smallballs.

1221
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,320
Dude, it fucking has to be because I know...

1222
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:50,320
You are Jimmy Smallballs.

1223
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:51,320
And we have to...

1224
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,320
It must be Schultz.

1225
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:53,320
No, no.

1226
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:54,320
No, no.

1227
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,440
Because Schultz, I wasn't sure who it was.

1228
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,160
And then I saw Jimmy Smallballs vote on the...

1229
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:02,160
Oh, you're right.

1230
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,880
No, no, no.

1231
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:08,840
The non-Jimmy Smallballs voted on the proposal, which I thought was Schultz, which means the

1232
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,640
only one that left was you.

1233
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:11,640
Are you sure it's not...

1234
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:12,640
Who's Jimmy Smallballs?

1235
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,640
It's Jimmy Smallballs.

1236
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,400
I don't see the osmosis address in the treasury anymore.

1237
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:18,400
This is all very hard.

1238
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:19,400
Thank you.

1239
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:20,400
I gave it back.

1240
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:21,400
I'm just going to copy that address.

1241
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:22,400
Here we go.

1242
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,440
I'm going to send a dollar and see what happens.

1243
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:25,440
Let's do...

1244
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,400
How much were we putting in into the...

1245
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,400
8.25 USD.

1246
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,400
8.25.

1247
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:31,400
Yeah.

1248
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:32,400
8.25 USD.

1249
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:33,400
Correct.

1250
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:34,400
Which is...

1251
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:40,560
So, everybody listening back later, the title of this podcast was Game of No It's

1252
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,800
Pay Their Invoices.

1253
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:47,760
It should have been Game of No It's Pay Their Invoices or Your Money Back because...

1254
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,360
It should have been Game of No It's...

1255
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,760
We delivered that content.

1256
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:57,920
We're not like one of these bullshit projects that just endlessly...

1257
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:58,920
Okay, granted.

1258
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,360
Let's not talk about the t-shirts in the merch.

1259
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,360
We did say we're going to be...

1260
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,200
We do not talk about the Game of No It's merch.

1261
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,200
I thought we were making a go more tidy t-shirt.

1262
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:08,200
That didn't happen.

1263
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:15,800
Okay, so that was relatively painless and it has come up as a USDC, not an Axelar USDC.

1264
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,280
So I don't know how that works.

1265
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,280
Oh, what the fuck?

1266
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,280
Oh, yeah, you're right.

1267
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,280
Oh, it sure does.

1268
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:22,280
Oh, that's cool.

1269
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,760
Okay, so that wasn't the only tokens that could be deposited there.

1270
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,360
So did you just buy them on Osmosis and then send them to the Dow?

1271
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,200
I already had some in the King Nodes Treasury.

1272
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:35,200
So that is...

1273
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,200
Okay, all right, cool.

1274
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,040
I forgot where I'm going to pull the grant from, but...

1275
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,200
So it was to get money into crypto.

1276
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,200
How do you get money into crypto?

1277
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,200
You don't.

1278
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:47,200
You only take money away from crypto.

1279
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:53,120
Well, yeah, but in the event that you need to pay an $825 bill and you need $800...

1280
01:00:53,120 --> 01:01:00,120
I mean, we could unbond some of our validators and it wouldn't add up to $825.

1281
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,240
So that's UTC and Ethereum.

1282
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:11,040
Like, you could buy Cosmos, sorry, buy Atom on Kraken, send it to Osmosis and then that's

1283
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,800
probably the easiest way, isn't it?

1284
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,760
That's so weird that it's shut up as USDC because it has to be actually USDC, right?

1285
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:19,760
Doesn't it?

1286
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,920
Isn't there native USDC floating around now?

1287
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:23,920
Is that through...

1288
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,840
Not through Neutron, through the other one, right?

1289
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:34,280
Look, maybe they've just... maybe in the map for the denoms, they've just fucked it up.

1290
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:35,280
I don't know.

1291
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,280
No, because on the smokes, actually, I see USDC...

1292
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,680
I see USDC, USDC slash Ethereum.

1293
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,800
I don't see actually USDC anymore in this list, which is really weird.

1294
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,400
Do Osmos use a different USDC?

1295
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,920
Well, maybe now it's native.

1296
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:56,480
But what the fuck does native mean in this context?

1297
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,480
Well, what the fuck is it?

1298
01:01:58,480 --> 01:01:59,480
What change?

1299
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,480
Like, natively issued.

1300
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:02,480
It's native.

1301
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:03,480
It's native.

1302
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:04,480
Natively issued.

1303
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:05,480
Natively issued through...

1304
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:06,480
What's USDC?

1305
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,080
Why can't I think of... what the fuck are we talking about?

1306
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:11,680
What change are we talking about here?

1307
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:16,840
So there's native USDC all over the place, right, on a bunch of different networks and

1308
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,960
that is just issued and redeemable by circle.

1309
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,720
So, what about in Britain and then say... it's all you... actually USDC, it's just abstracted

1310
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:26,720
the bridge away.

1311
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,760
So basically it's USDC regardless of what bridges involved it within that.

1312
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:31,760
Well, why does it say...

1313
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,560
For fuck's sake, I hate you.

1314
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:37,560
Listen.

1315
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:42,320
There's an easy solution, right?

1316
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,400
The hot... okay, so you're in the UK band.

1317
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:49,000
Listen, I can tell you the whole of the pick of it is back on BBC iPlayer.

1318
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:50,520
There's an easy solution.

1319
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,840
You can turn off this podcast and go watch The Rise and The Nutters episode or Spinners

1320
01:02:55,840 --> 01:03:01,440
and Losers classic, classic one, two, two of the finest pieces of British comedy ever

1321
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:08,040
written on BBC iPlayer free to all British residents or anybody with a VPN.

1322
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,880
So this is the best... this is the best coming out of overhead.

1323
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,600
It's very relatable actually.

1324
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,680
Even as a panelist, it's incredibly relatable.

1325
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:26,160
So I feel like Ben Davis has a punching bag in his viewing room with like the little logo.

1326
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:27,160
Viewing room, yes.

1327
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:28,160
For viewing room.

1328
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:29,160
Just for a game of notes.

1329
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,160
For a game of notes on a Wednesday evening.

1330
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:37,520
Okay, he's got that logo for a game of notes on his... it's stitched intricately stitched

1331
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:38,520
into his punching bag.

1332
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:39,520
You idiots.

1333
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:45,720
You know, as an aside, we should actually put more than USD$825 into the Dow and we

1334
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:47,360
should actually print T-shirts.

1335
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:48,360
We should print T-shirts.

1336
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:49,360
It's too late.

1337
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:50,360
I fucking know I've done it.

1338
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:51,360
Okay, if I...

1339
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:52,360
I'm practically bankrupt now so...

1340
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:53,360
Yeah, I mean that's...

1341
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:54,360
I see 825.

1342
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,360
...2 years.

1343
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:02,480
So it doesn't show who... it doesn't show where they came from, right?

1344
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:03,480
It does not.

1345
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:04,480
But I can send it...

1346
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:05,480
Oh, okay.

1347
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:06,480
So I can send it for anywhere though.

1348
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:07,480
All right.

1349
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:14,760
Related to this in a final piece of news, the Dow Dow UI is going to go open source again.

1350
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:15,760
Why?

1351
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:16,760
Why?

1352
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:17,760
Fuck me.

1353
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:23,800
I might have some thoughts on whether or not that was a good idea you said.

1354
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,280
Why is it going open source?

1355
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:26,840
Why?

1356
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:31,440
My understanding is because obviously they already open sourced it in the past.

1357
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:36,800
So there are some old versions flowing around and one, they want to get more contributors

1358
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:42,160
and it's easier when it's open source and especially to patch minor issues and stuff

1359
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,920
and two, to grow off to ground funding from other chains.

1360
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,880
So what they call neutron already used Dow Dow, right?

1361
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:55,440
They've got all the contracts and then there's that one on Terra which is also a Dow Dow

1362
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,560
clone, isn't it?

1363
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,360
I don't know if the plan is to go after funding from everybody, but I think Archway also maybe

1364
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:07,280
used Dow Dow or have it obviously because contracts are open source.

1365
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,920
So I think it's about getting funding from other chains.

1366
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,360
I understand this very well.

1367
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:19,040
So we're talking about the future of Juno and this project and Dow Dow and the idea

1368
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:24,520
of decentralized autonomous organizations is a huge output of Juno, right?

1369
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:31,280
So if this goes open source and all these chains can use it, then what is the role of

1370
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,120
Dow Dow on Juno?

1371
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:34,720
What's the role of Dow Dow zone?

1372
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:40,320
Is it just a single instance of this idea and everyone can use the idea?

1373
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:45,000
And so you're saving on hosting and costs associated that?

1374
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,560
Cross-chain Dow, I guess.

1375
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,760
But if that exists today, right, we created an autonomous services address and that will

1376
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:52,760
go to other types of chains, right?

1377
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:57,960
So if I'm open sourcing it and we're getting grants to pay developer, I'm not saying that's

1378
01:05:57,960 --> 01:05:58,960
a bad idea.

1379
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,240
I'm just asking a real question.

1380
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,520
So I understand the need to pay people and to be able to survive.

1381
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,240
I clearly understand that.

1382
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:12,080
So is this a, hey, we'd like to have it work a different way, but we can't because the

1383
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,560
market is shit and so therefore we need cash or we're going to open source it to be able

1384
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:21,480
to yada yada or is this a strategic type structure to be able to do this?

1385
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,640
Because I don't understand.

1386
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,800
If Dow Dow can't be used like this website and what we're doing here today with this

1387
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:32,280
or an ability to figure this out to pay bills, but this can't be used across the Cosmo

1388
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,960
ecosystem or across IBC, right?

1389
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,840
If it's just open source and anybody can use it, then what's the point of this?

1390
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,280
I honestly don't know.

1391
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,680
Like, do you guys know the answer to that?

1392
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,040
What's the point of which of Dow Dow?

1393
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:49,680
Like if it's just, if it's a frame, is it a framework or is it a solution?

1394
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:53,320
Because if it's a framework that anyone can use and then we can be able to bring it to

1395
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,360
their own chain, then okay, that's a framework.

1396
01:06:55,360 --> 01:07:00,240
Then that team gets paid based on other teams using it as a framework and there's no structure.

1397
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:01,240
It's just the same.

1398
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,920
I guess it's the same funding.

1399
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,920
If you open source the front end, then the funding model becomes fundamentally the same

1400
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:13,440
as every piece of Web 2 open source software where you are begging people for money.

1401
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,160
Then it's a framework.

1402
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:19,240
I'm building a framework that I'm asking for people who use the framework to be able to

1403
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,640
contribute back to their framework.

1404
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:29,520
So if it's a framework, then Juno's future as a home of Dow Dow makes no sense because

1405
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:30,520
then it's not a solution.

1406
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,200
It's not a solution that all these teams are using.

1407
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,320
This is a, like Dow Dow is a solution.

1408
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,400
The solution exists on this chain that we're using right now.

1409
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:39,400
We're using Juno.

1410
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,000
We have to have Juno be able to do this.

1411
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:48,720
But if it's a framework that anyone can use, then what's the value of Dow Dow itself as

1412
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:50,720
a site that's hosted on Juno?

1413
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,000
Then what is the value of Juno associated with that?

1414
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:59,880
Well, I think the reality is as soon as the front end is open source, the idea that there's

1415
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:05,160
any direct high to Juno is factually incorrect.

1416
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:06,160
Right.

1417
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:11,320
Well, but we talked about before, like a while ago was that the future of Juno was Dow Dow,

1418
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:12,320
right?

1419
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:18,000
Like that was one of the core one tenants to say that we want to make sure that like the

1420
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,880
idea of decentralized governance is extremely important.

1421
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,480
This is the best toolset that's out there, which we all agree, right?

1422
01:08:23,480 --> 01:08:24,480
But they exist.

1423
01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:30,120
And so this was like one of the huge carrots that we could use from a Juno perspective to

1424
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,560
say, hey, across IBC and as IBC grows across other ecosystems and all the type of stuff

1425
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:36,160
that Dow is a home for that.

1426
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,320
But if that's all open source and like it can just give it away and then we're getting

1427
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:45,440
grants for it, then basically we're trading the project for the chain.

1428
01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:47,760
So the project receives revenue associated.

1429
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:49,800
No, I'm just trying to figure it out.

1430
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,680
So the project receives revenue for that because they've done the work, but the chain basically

1431
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,120
loses value because anybody can use it, right?

1432
01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:58,120
Yeah.

1433
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:04,160
So I think there's two things that like one is obviously Juno's entire model was protocols

1434
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,320
come here, protocols eventually move on, right?

1435
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,960
And then the chain has more protocols.

1436
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:14,280
However, Juno has singularly failed to attract protocols to it.

1437
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:15,280
Yes.

1438
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:16,280
Like that's been a complete failure.

1439
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:18,680
Let's be honest, like viable protocols.

1440
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:19,680
It's been challenging.

1441
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:20,680
Yes.

1442
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:21,680
Almost none.

1443
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,520
So, but things that do exist in the future.

1444
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:29,160
So there are some things obviously for Dow-Dow that are going to happen on Juno.

1445
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,720
A lot of the stuff that's in Juno Evo is still planned, which is essentially all the stuff

1446
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:40,120
around hooks, governance, moving to Dow-Dow, all that stuff which is like first in the

1447
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,480
Cosmos ecosystem.

1448
01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:49,400
The issue I think you would have, which is the question of like what benefit?

1449
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:55,720
So it means that Juno has like governance that is better than anywhere else in the ecosystem.

1450
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:02,360
But if Juno is losing its fundamental value proposition, then why do people want to participate

1451
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,360
in governance for something that becomes valueless?

1452
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:10,240
It is like, I think there's a little bit of a, there is a lot of attention there.

1453
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:15,240
And the other problem you have, I think, is that the implementation of it, you know, Juno

1454
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:16,800
is fundamentally open source, right?

1455
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:22,240
So all of the hooks and all the stuff that has been, that will be built for Juno, you

1456
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,800
know, can just be lifted and shifted to another chain that already has Dow-Dow and then they

1457
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,640
have the same tech as Juno again.

1458
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:35,440
So, you know, look, we have a big brain hat on and, you know, stepping away for a minute

1459
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:40,800
from somebody who's been involved in Juno since way before Genesis has a lot of skin

1460
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:41,800
in the game.

1461
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:46,440
But take a step back from all of that and say like, okay, complete bystander view is

1462
01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:48,960
that a good outcome?

1463
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:55,080
And I actually spicy take would say it is a good outcome to have Dow-Dow open source,

1464
01:10:55,080 --> 01:11:01,240
potentially even the UI and have all the work for Juno EVO done open source.

1465
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,840
That is really good for Dow tooling.

1466
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,240
It's really good for the Cosmos.

1467
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:11,120
And it's really, really good for Dow-Dow with a caveat.

1468
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:15,920
So the best thing for Dow-Dow would actually be to work out, you know, full product model

1469
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,880
and become self-sustaining, right?

1470
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,640
Use tokenomics their advantage, become fully self-sustaining.

1471
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:25,440
Now, we're in a ecosystem, we're in a world where we can build economic incentive systems,

1472
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:26,440
right?

1473
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:27,840
That's the novel thing about crypto.

1474
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,880
Do that rather than going after grant money or whatever.

1475
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,840
And I know there's a bunch of stuff that Dow-Dow are doing around token swaps and all that

1476
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:35,840
stuff.

1477
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:37,800
There's a bunch of different avenues for funding that are possible.

1478
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,200
I'm not like just shitting on them because I know they are doing a bunch of different

1479
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:42,200
things.

1480
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,920
So, yeah, with that caveat.

1481
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:49,920
But for Dow-Dow, like if they're not going to do the product thing, then this makes sense

1482
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:50,920
for them.

1483
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:56,360
It's the right decision to go and look for the grant funding to do the open source thing.

1484
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,040
So I think there's two interesting things there.

1485
01:11:58,040 --> 01:11:59,920
This may well be the right decision for Dow-Dow.

1486
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:04,440
It's almost certainly, like with a kind of squinty way, the best thing for the Cosmos

1487
01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:08,480
ecosystem and it's almost definitely the best thing for Dow tooling, right?

1488
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:12,440
Just to get good Dow tooling out there and let anybody use it.

1489
01:12:12,440 --> 01:12:14,520
However, is it bad for Juno?

1490
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:15,520
Yes.

1491
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:16,520
Right.

1492
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:17,520
Right.

1493
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:18,520
That was my point, right?

1494
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:19,520
Holding the bag.

1495
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:20,520
Who's left them?

1496
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:21,520
Because Juno backholders.

1497
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:22,520
Correct.

1498
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:28,200
They're left holding the bag of a, there's a great loss of revenue or there's a great

1499
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:32,000
loss of value to be able to create a product that will benefit others and the team, but

1500
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,240
not necessarily the people who created the opportunity.

1501
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:42,720
So that's not entirely true because what's good for Dow-Dow is actually still good for

1502
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:47,760
Juno in that Juno has a lot of Dow token in the Treasury.

1503
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:49,480
So if they can actually...

1504
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:54,720
Yeah, but they're moving to a funding model that is potentially a thoggen or to the Dow

1505
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:55,720
token.

1506
01:12:55,720 --> 01:13:01,840
So what I was going to say is if they can make the Dow token successful, then that is

1507
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:05,680
a success for Juno in itself.

1508
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:06,680
So I mean...

1509
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:07,680
And there's also an argument...

1510
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:08,680
There's a problem.

1511
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:14,200
Well, there's also an argument to add to your point, Noel, about the success of the token.

1512
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:18,920
Even if the token isn't a success, actually, the success of the protocol and moving on

1513
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:23,120
is a project success, like in terms of adoption for Juno.

1514
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:29,880
And you could say, well, look, this project was incubated, developed, with grant money,

1515
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:34,520
has moved on from Juno, has become bigger, is now core to the interchange, is used across

1516
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:40,200
the interchange, is used on this chain, that chain, the other chain, because it's chained

1517
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,200
out, right?

1518
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:46,440
And projects looking to find a chain where they can get that funding and then move on

1519
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:49,840
or whatever will go, okay, cool, I can use Juno.

1520
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:58,000
And maybe one of those other projects will have a better mechanism for returning value

1521
01:13:58,000 --> 01:13:59,240
to Juno stakers.

1522
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:06,040
However, you are then in a weird situation where essentially the core chain infrastructure,

1523
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:12,080
so the Juno security of the chain, which is from Juno stakers, they are relying on the

1524
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:18,440
charity of the projects on the chain to see a return themselves of value.

1525
01:14:18,440 --> 01:14:22,840
Now that has always been the case, actually, when you think about it.

1526
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,680
It's always the case that without protocols, the token is worthless.

1527
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:27,440
And so they've always been in that position.

1528
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:33,400
This just makes that very explicit, and it's maybe an uncomfortable situation to be in,

1529
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:34,400
potentially.

1530
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:35,400
I don't know.

1531
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,880
I think it's a complicated question, really, this.

1532
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:40,800
So too complicated for the show.

1533
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:47,240
I think that no matter what Daudau do with open sourcing, et cetera, I think that the

1534
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:52,200
latest and the greatest features will probably always ship on Juno first.

1535
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:58,320
And I think there's a good opportunity, even if it is open sourced for other projects to

1536
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:06,200
contract Daudau team to have outposts like native outposts on their own chains of Daudau,

1537
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:10,640
which I think would help it proliferate in the ecosystem as well.

1538
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,040
But I mean, they just have to be a little bit smart about how they do that and what they

1539
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,840
actually, you know, you can open source or be done after open source, like all of the

1540
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:18,840
branches, right?

1541
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:22,760
And they can have like a development branch which has better features and just not have

1542
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:28,400
that open source than only have like an LTS or something that's open sourced.

1543
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:33,520
But you know, I think the way it stands at the moment, they're never going to get a foothold

1544
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,400
in anything just by being on Juno.

1545
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:41,080
Because, I mean, as much as I still like Juno, Juno has just slanted the fuck out of all

1546
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:42,800
over the place.

1547
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:49,680
And you have to be present elsewhere if you want to get the brand out there and be recognised.

1548
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:55,280
But at the same time, you can still help Juno get a leg up by keeping your core features

1549
01:15:55,280 --> 01:16:04,880
or the next features always released on Juno first and have like the main base of Daudau

1550
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:10,600
still on Juno, but abstract everything else away anyway, so that our purse works seamlessly.

1551
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:15,280
I guess my fundamental question is maybe more about Juno than it is about Daudau in some

1552
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:20,520
ways, which is that, you know, if there aren't more protocols on Juno back in the first place,

1553
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:27,080
like Juno doesn't need a lot of the advanced governance features and people's Daudaus,

1554
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:32,600
let's be real, if and when Daudau goes fully just super-entertained, right?

1555
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:38,240
A lot of that work, that heavy lifting is going to be on other chains and a lot of the

1556
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,440
transactions are going to be in either natives on other chains or they're going to be in

1557
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:45,160
USDC or something similar, right?

1558
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,920
So it is that thing of like, oh, technically, it will live on Juno.

1559
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:50,920
That doesn't matter.

1560
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:55,200
But you know, I guess that's the interchain mesh security type world, right?

1561
01:16:55,200 --> 01:17:00,560
Moving forward, the chains themselves are going to master a little bit less, but I guess

1562
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,880
it's more to the heart of like, what is the USP of Juno, right?

1563
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:10,080
Juno could never be successful with just Daudau on its own anyway.

1564
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:18,800
The only path for success for Juno is to make a friendly, full-featured development environment

1565
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:21,520
for teams to want to build here.

1566
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,800
And the whole incentivized environment, I think, is bullshit.

1567
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:31,640
And you're never going to get like quality projects by having incentivization to come

1568
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:33,200
and build on your chain.

1569
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:38,280
I think like people have to want to build it and you have to provide an environment that

1570
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,240
makes people want to build it.

1571
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:45,280
And if you can attract people that way, you might be successful, but you have to have

1572
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:53,480
like a very friendly environment with all of the resources that you need, as well as

1573
01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:58,480
like all of the latest features and always be on top of those features.

1574
01:17:58,480 --> 01:18:02,600
Everything that's the latest in the ecosystem, you have to support.

1575
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:07,240
And if you can have that and then for some stroke of luck, teams want to come and build

1576
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,680
here, then it could potentially be successful.

1577
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:11,880
Otherwise, it's probably fucked anyway.

1578
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:12,880
Yeah.

1579
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,080
No matter what Daudau does, it's fucking Daudau's good and all, but it's never going

1580
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:20,520
to be the sole road to success of Juno.

1581
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:28,840
I don't want to show in this conversation, but I can't find a way to send nulls $825

1582
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:29,840
out via proposal.

1583
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,960
You do a new proposal and send.

1584
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,160
All I can see is the Juno side.

1585
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:36,920
I can't see the Asmosis side.

1586
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:38,840
Don't you just tick the box?

1587
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:45,320
So you go to like actions and then you tick the radio button for Osmosis and it should

1588
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:46,320
give you the...

1589
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:47,760
I see proposal.

1590
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,360
I see spend.

1591
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,560
I can see the Juno and USDC associate the Juno.

1592
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:56,920
I'm trying to figure out how to get to being able to send an action from the Asmosis chain.

1593
01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:03,520
I'm hoping that $825 is locked up forever is really what I'm thinking about.

1594
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:07,280
So before I send $825, I just want to make sure.

1595
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:11,160
So like a final cheery question.

1596
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:12,160
Yeah.

1597
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:18,840
So I think we've covered like, wait and see on the Daudau Juno thing.

1598
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:20,840
But how...

1599
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:26,440
Because obviously we're primarily engaged in the Cosmos ecosystem, although all of us

1600
01:19:26,440 --> 01:19:27,440
do...

1601
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:31,320
All of our companies are like are active in other ecosystems.

1602
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:32,320
Like how...

1603
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:35,960
In the context of where we are currently, we're still deep in a bed.

1604
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,840
It's not getting better any time soon.

1605
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:45,480
Like I put this in the spreadsheet, the discussion point is, are any of us GMI?

1606
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:49,200
But I think it's actually partly putting on this T-shirt that made me think about it.

1607
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:56,040
The amount of work a team like Artifact do on marketing promotions, outreach to new protocols,

1608
01:19:56,040 --> 01:20:04,520
like it's a multi-person just on the research and marketing and hand pressing and conferences

1609
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:05,520
and whatever.

1610
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,960
It's a really big coordinated effort to stay on top of everything.

1611
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:09,960
Yeah.

1612
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,560
It's a huge amount of work to do that sort of stuff.

1613
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:19,160
And I guess I have this niggling feeling at the moment with like how we've ended up in

1614
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:23,600
these ecosystems that we have as much by luck as by judgment.

1615
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:28,440
And I think that's probably true of a lot of devs, a lot of even investors, whatever.

1616
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:31,560
Like how repeatable is what we do as a business?

1617
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,320
Like I'm thinking about this purely in a business strategy perspective.

1618
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:39,600
We've just done our tax return for the end of the year, boom, tax mention again, drink.

1619
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,760
And we're getting these questions like, oh, what's your forecast for next year?

1620
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:43,760
What are your business initiatives?

1621
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,400
What are your plans from the finance guys?

1622
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,760
And you go like, well, any of the stuff we've done in the last three years as a business,

1623
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:55,680
I don't know how you could pull off again, even if we put in the work that our fact do,

1624
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,920
even they don't always manage to find repeatable.

1625
01:20:58,920 --> 01:20:59,920
Of course, that's the space.

1626
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:02,440
Yeah, no, you can say a thousand frogs, right?

1627
01:21:02,440 --> 01:21:03,440
Yeah.

1628
01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:07,720
We've talked about it before, like you have to get a lot of frogs actually, like to build

1629
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:08,880
something and turn into a prince.

1630
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,240
Like you really do.

1631
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:11,760
Like, and you're right.

1632
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,400
Like half of it is, half of it is hard work and being in the right place at the right

1633
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:16,400
time.

1634
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:17,400
There's two different things.

1635
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,240
One is who you know, I think makes a big difference, right?

1636
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:24,280
And your reputation, you also who you up to, like and your reputation, reputation makes

1637
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:27,640
I think makes a big difference within that and your ability to execute makes a big difference

1638
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,640
on that.

1639
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:33,360
And then there's a huge piece of luck and there's a huge piece of luck in every part

1640
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:34,360
of business, right?

1641
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:36,640
Like, that's not related to crypto.

1642
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:41,280
But I think within crypto, either you're placing bets on everything, which I think is probably

1643
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:42,360
the wrong.

1644
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:50,680
I think in long term, I think that's the wrong strategy or you are lucky enough to find and

1645
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:57,600
get into the right groove of either projects or owners that have the right that basically

1646
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:03,120
change the percentage of success versus failure, right?

1647
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:08,640
And like, like we, like we put a lot of money into projects, but we invest in teams, not

1648
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,160
our, like we don't invest in projects.

1649
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:12,160
We invest in teams.

1650
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,880
We look at who's involved in that, what their history is.

1651
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:18,760
Do they have an interest, like, like their history, not in web three business, but just

1652
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:25,520
like their ability to be able to run and execute on engagements and be able to be able to deliver

1653
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:26,520
something.

1654
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:31,600
And if they have success in that in the past or if they have history of that in the past,

1655
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:35,120
that kind of you then you use that as a way to determine whether there's something in

1656
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:36,640
the future.

1657
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:43,640
But it's still like, but even with, even if you had like a great visibility to all of

1658
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:46,960
that and you had a good understanding of those teams, you had the right introductions, the

1659
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:51,360
percentage of success is still like, it's still a crap shoot, right?

1660
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,920
Because you don't really know what's going to make and what's not going to make.

1661
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:59,840
I suppose it's just like you look at the traditional like, you know, model of like what we might

1662
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:01,720
do is small tech companies, right?

1663
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:05,120
And you could look at, oh, we're going to pitch for eight projects.

1664
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,440
Like going back to like pure project work, like engineering work, infrastructure work,

1665
01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:12,280
like we're going to pitch eight projects, 10 projects to clients and you can kind of

1666
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:17,160
come up with, okay, well, we'll get two of them, we'll get one to two of them.

1667
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,960
It will bring in this amount, it'll be at this PNL.

1668
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:26,160
There's some element of predictability, even though it's not de-risk, right?

1669
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:30,160
And I get this is the argument for doing infra, I suppose, rather than just pure validation,

1670
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:31,160
right?

1671
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:36,280
And so that sort of model, but it's the, it's the all or nothing nature of the winners or

1672
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:41,600
losers, I think, which is the interesting part of this, because it's just, it adds

1673
01:23:41,600 --> 01:24:00,560
that extra variable that takes it from normal business to being something completely unknowable.