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I mean, I'm just happy if this becomes a dial because then we're finally actually a

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dial and you know, then the meme is complete.

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Don't let your memes be dreams.

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We can answer the big question.

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Is it a down?

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast for independent validated teams.

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Hello, and welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent validated teams.

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We have Sporthy with us this week to tell us everything we missed at the recent slew

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of European conferences that we were not at.

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Obviously we had sneaking up from behind me last week, a friend of the show, Jake, who

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could have told us a lot more about awesome wasm other than the mesh demo.

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But essentially the osmosis cape was I think too much of a fun prop to actually be able

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to get any reasonable discussion about those conferences, which I'm assured were very good.

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So we reached out to Spoo because we thought Spoo actually will be able to sort of present

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a reasonable summary and digest of what actually happened.

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But first in the true spirit of ignoring the guest for the first period of the show, we

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have a slightly edited from last week Null's News Corner, which I'm not going to update,

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but I will for next week.

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Null, do you want to take it away?

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What's happened this week?

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First of all, I fucking hate the Ben Amen.

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I just, I hate banners.

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You know, it's funny that Spoo was actually here before we went live and we haven't said

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anything to her or whatsoever because we were talking about something else.

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Anyway, first the news.

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So I have a few items that I have collected whilst what was the term the fray doing Twitter

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on the shitter, zitting on zitter on the shitter.

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I'm not relevant.

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I don't know how what the kids are saying.

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Spoo, do you know?

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Do we see now?

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Is it zitter?

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Is it just X?

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What's the deal?

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No, no, you just moved to Blue Sky or how?

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Probably Blue Sky there, let's be honest.

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So there you are.

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And you tried threads.

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What's that?

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Threads.

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It's the meta's alternative to Twitter.

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I thought threads wasn't threads the film about the what happens after World War Three.

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It's really, so this is again, phrase film corner, but I'm pretty sure threads is the

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name of this super fucking dark BBC or like British TV thing that's like really harrowing

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from like 1985 all about what happens if England gets bombed with a nuclear weapon during World

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War Three.

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And nothing good is the answer.

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It's really horrible.

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But I feel like it feels like a thing we were shown in school, you know, like water ship

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down, you know, just to fucking make the kids have like PTSD.

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This is 100% Rogentamutos.

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100%.

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There you go.

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It's good.

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It's certified fresh, certified harrowing.

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It's a British Australian sci-fi movie, a Pulitzer War.

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Hitting all of our demographics here.

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Okay.

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So what happened?

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Okay.

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So, this week has been like just a shit show of exploits and rugs.

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And apologies if my internet goes out.

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I'm seeing a little connection issue thing come up in the corner so it could die at any

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time.

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So the first one I have on my list is the White Whale DeFi.

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I don't know what you'd call this.

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A rug, a hack.

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It's not really like it was an exploit of a hot wallet, but it wasn't really an exploit

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because it was just like an old employee or something that had the mnemonic for a hot

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wallet.

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So, I guess you would put this down to like poor security practice.

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But anyway, what happened was that there was a hot wallet for Osmo incentives.

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So from the main multi-seg, 3 million whales were transferred to the hot wallet and then

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someone who had access to the hot wallet noticed, I guess they were watching that wallet.

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So I guess they were probably waiting for an opportunity for this for a while.

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They transferred it and dumped it and tanked the price 25%.

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So for somebody that's not on White Whale, do you say 3 million?

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3 million tokens.

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So it's like 7 million tokens.

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What was the value here we're talking?

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Because we're a bear market, right?

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Yeah, yeah, it's 70 grand.

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It's still, you know, it's half a land cruiser.

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All this day's work.

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So it's no laughing matter.

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It's a fair amount of money.

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And you know, the users, I guess, ultimately pay for that.

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So, yeah, that is item one.

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Any comments on that?

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There is lack of dowification.

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I mean, so the fact that they just reused an old wallet with shared mnemonics, I think

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is not the greatest.

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Man, take the banner down.

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It's just, it's annoying to people.

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I'm sure if you did a survey of people that this is annoying to, it would be 100%.

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You know very well now that we have more listeners on podcast players than we do on the live

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show.

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And so repeatedly referring to the banner that is annoying you is just alienating those

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people listening later who are wondering, what is this?

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What are you talking about?

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Those people who are listening later are going to be so chuffed that they don't have to look

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at that fucking banner.

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That's may as be, but the banner stays.

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Okay, yeah, everyone's like, yeah, keep the banner.

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Right.

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Okay, so I mean that I was hoping for some discussion on that.

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You seem to just be like listening, spook or nothing to say.

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So I guess I'll move on to the next thing seen as my panelists don't give a fuck.

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What?

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I mean, like, you know, it's a rug.

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We've seen a rug before.

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What was the first episode of this was baby's first rug pool, right?

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Yeah, I don't know.

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Maybe you could be like, oh, this is how they could improve their security or why would

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they do that?

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Or I don't know, shit on them?

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Well, I mean, the irony here, right?

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I suppose if you go like do, but you go do like some corporate contracts or whatever,

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like, which is what I've been doing recently.

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And like everybody's fucking obsessed with like JML, you know, like join those movers

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levers and that stuff.

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They're like, oh my God, if somebody leaves, then like, we need to immediately get them

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off our systems.

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It was five minutes later, they're going to access our GitLab and they're going to take

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down our middle market e-commerce site.

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And you're like, I mean, yeah, you should have a policy in place, but it's probably

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not your number one.

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Don't procure software just to worry about that one problem.

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Just hire people that are not going to, you know, and don't fire people like for no fucking

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reason so they'll have a grievance against you.

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Like would be my advice to you rather than making a big deal out of this.

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But then, you know, the irony here is like we're actually in a space where that shit

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really, really matters.

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And of course, everybody's just like, yo, yo, yo, yo.

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I mean, yeah, it's like the fact that that is a thing that they have to just rug them

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from all of the systems as they're firing people is just, I don't know, it really says

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something about the character of people these days, doesn't it?

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That there's that many people who would be willing to just be malicious upon being fired.

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It's no, it's a very old.

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I mean, first of all, the whole malicious thing like walk out, burning the castle.

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Like, yeah, I mean, I mean, fuck the system.

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Right.

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I mean, you know, there's two types of people in the world, right?

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There's masters and there's workers.

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But I don't know, like, you know, in the back, there's a great interview with the guy who

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wrote Fight Club where he basically talked about after he wrote the book everywhere he

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went in the world, people were like, oh, yeah, you know, the scene when like people like

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the waiters fuck with the food and stuff like that.

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People would just come to him and be like, oh, yeah, man, when when I work this job,

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I used to fuck with the people that ate there all the time by doing this or that.

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Or, oh, yeah, I used to work at this company and we built like this kind of software and

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we just put in this bug that crashed it every four hours because fucking why not?

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Nobody would ever find that bug.

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And like he had this whole like fucking binder of random malicious shit people just did because

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they fucking hated their jobs.

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And it was kind of funny, you know, whatever.

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So but I mean, this is like this is criminality, I think is the thing.

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It's not just like, you know, being like, I'm going to change some of these passwords

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on my way out the door because they haven't.

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You know, it's like slash the bosses tires shit on the windscreen.

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Yeah, like it's not like smashing the printer in office space is it?

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It's like quite a different.

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It's $70,000 worth of criminality.

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That is also one of my favorite movies, by the way, office space.

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Um, OK, well, moving on to an exploit.

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Well, I mean, so this is this one's kind of funny.

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This was on the Ethereum network and there was an exploit and some MeV happening at the

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same time, which I found quite hilarious.

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So firstly, there were some exploits in the curve pools, I believe, not 100 percent on

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what happened there with the exploits.

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Maybe someone in the comments actually knows exactly what happened with the exploits.

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But when they were being executed, I think someone had some bots running, which noticed

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the transactions were going to result in like an exploit and then front run those transactions

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in the same block, which I'm not sure if they were like multiple people trying to front

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run each other or if they just wanted to be absolutely fucking sure that I get coffee

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babe, eat bots.

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So I tried to look up that coffee babe, eat and could not find anything like it's not

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a Twitter handle and the domain does nothing.

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So I guess that's just, I don't know, is that like a Reddit Twitter account or something?

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Anyway, so what it basically resulted in was just massive, like gas fees being paid to

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make sure that they 100 percent front run the transactions.

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So like the highest one was 584 ETH paid as a fee.

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So the person who actually produced that block got the 584 ETH for that transaction.

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So there's 584 for one block, 343 for another, 247 for another and 51 for another that were

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all paid as fees.

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So that's like what, about a thousand ETH paid in fees, 1100 paid in fees.

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So that's somebody who, so I am not 100 percent sure how the whole MEV party works in that

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particular scenario.

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So some validator just netted a thousand ETH for that block.

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A couple, like it was subsequent blocks, so it'd be various validators, but yeah, validators

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netted a thousand ETH in fees over the duration of the exploit.

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So there was a conversation earlier about why lawyers in this space are expensive.

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And I believe I said to you, it's not worth having cheap lawyers if you work in crypto.

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This is a prime example of why, right?

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If you ever have to fucking explain that, yeah, so why did your company process those

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blocks that were massive criminality and like handle the exploit and made a bunch of people

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a load of money and ripped off a bunch of people?

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And it seems like you also profited and you're like, ah, well, so it's not conspiracy because

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we had no idea.

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We were just fucking signing blocks, yo, though, but you also made like a hundred grand.

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Yeah.

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So the thing is like, yeah, I mean, it's proceeds of a hacker, right?

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It's literally criminal proceeds.

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But you're like, yeah, what the fuck?

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I mean, I like, it's an interesting precedent.

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What the fuck would you have to, what?

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What?

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's not like you can give it back.

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Is it?

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I guess you're like somebody would maybe make you try.

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So it's easy to get back off you than as the hacker.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I read through like a lot of comments regarding this and people, I mean, people were

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shitty that the validator got that.

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I don't know if it's just like, ah, could have been me type thing, but people are definitely

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shitty that the validator took home, for example, 584, Ethan one block.

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So yeah, lucky that validators are pretty in on right in ETH.

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They might be getting some hate mail.

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Yeah.

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Maybe more than more than hate mail.

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Yeah.

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Um, so anyway, uh, I'm not sure what the actual maybe I don't.

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So Reese says that rain trancy attack.

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So I guess that's some sort of known attack for the, for the re-entry, re-entry.

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What is what happens if you don't have atomicity in a block?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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That's above my pay grade, but definitely, I guess, makes it possible to steal lots of

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ETH and then get it taken away by the validator.

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So I think I did read.

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I'm not sure if it was related, but I read something.

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It's basically the summary is like, if you, if you have a hook in a con, let's say you

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have like a hook in a contract and it means that another contract can effectively call

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into that contract and do additional behavior, you then have a potential loop there, don't

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you?

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So there's, there's a whole bunch of conditional additional stuff you could do.

238
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:57,040
Um, kind of as a kind of side effect of the original is the best way to explain it.

239
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:03,720
Whereas like, if you have like, like a more atomic model, you have a set of calls that

240
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,200
succeed or fail and the site, well, so the difficulty here, right, is that there's a

241
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,760
thing called the halting problem.

242
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,800
So like kind of fundamentally in computer science, you can't actually know that a computer

243
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,360
program will succeed, fail, halt, or run forever, whatever.

244
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,360
Like you just can't know.

245
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,520
It's not actually possible to know.

246
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:30,960
Um, but you can very heavily limit down the chance of bad stuff happening by design to

247
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:38,520
only a space where it's the possibility of like, um, I guess like a VM level bug.

248
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,680
So only a bug could elicit the behavior where you could do out of bound behavior that isn't

249
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:44,680
defined.

250
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,800
Um, so cause and was it, what I think Reese is referring to is that kind of cause and

251
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,680
was and by design has an actor model.

252
00:15:52,680 --> 00:16:00,160
So this kind of attack, um, is significantly harder to do because it's been designed out

253
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,680
of the system.

254
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:08,960
However, there are still callback based out of, there are still callback based attacks

255
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:16,520
that can happen and have happened because the July 27th, Juneau attack, which was last

256
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:24,040
year over a year ago now, um, was in fact an example of that behavior because, or it

257
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:32,240
wasn't a re-entrancy attack exactly, but it was, um, it was used to callback into a contract

258
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,600
to do undefined behavior and then trigger behavior that wasn't expected as a result

259
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:43,760
of bugs in the FFI, well, in the kind of interface between, um, Rust and go, I've probably explained

260
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,200
that really badly, um, but I don't see a spoo-shaking head.

261
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:54,000
So we'll assume that as a reasonable, reasonably digestible explanation, um, of what happened

262
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000
now.

263
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000
I did tune out a little bit.

264
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:03,160
So, well, I'm going to say you're the, you're the, you're the, you're the superior authority

265
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,480
on the go side of that, of that system boundary.

266
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,200
So I'm going to say that Spoo agreed with my rough summary and that's,

267
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,960
it's like, if you ain't going to talk to me, I ain't going to fucking listen.

268
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:20,160
Um, yeah, but it's a big, like there's a few things in the solidity, in the design

269
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,600
of solidity that essentially do mean that you can rug yourself more easily and they've

270
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,640
been designed out in Cosmoism.

271
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,840
They've been designed out in move.

272
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,760
Um, so mo, a lot of smart contracting systems, VMs, runtimes that have happened since are

273
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:42,160
kind of aware of that as like an attack vector in a big way, um, which is why, yeah, these

274
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,440
attacks are going to keep happening in one way, like various types of re-entrances,

275
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,640
the attack are going to happen in solidity because it's just, yeah, it's possible.

276
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,120
It's much more trivial than that system.

277
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:54,120
Okay.

278
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,120
So back to the news.

279
00:17:55,120 --> 00:18:00,400
I think in the Cosmoism website, there's an entire page dedicated to why re-entrances

280
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,400
is not possible.

281
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,400
An entire page of docs dedicated to this because it's such a big problem in solidity.

282
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,320
I'll go and find them and put them in the show notes.

283
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,920
I know the page, I know the page of which you speak.

284
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,720
I'm sure people are going to find that riveting.

285
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,960
Um, all right.

286
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,920
So in other news and coincidentally, it's Ethereum six birthday this week.

287
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,640
So happy birthday, Ethereum.

288
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,840
I wish I had like a party pop or something.

289
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,120
Anyway, moving on.

290
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:38,520
The fray for all those listening to this podcast is now deep in search for this page so that

291
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,560
you can add it to the, the show notes.

292
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:49,640
So in other news, the apparently coinbase has their own chain now called base.

293
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,320
Spook, do you know?

294
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:52,320
Is it called base?

295
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,320
I think it's called base.

296
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,240
I think this was announced a couple of months ago.

297
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,240
Oh yeah.

298
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,240
It's not.

299
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:05,760
But this is due to me, I now know that they have a chain called base, which I'm sure is

300
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,280
just a repository of shit coins.

301
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:16,280
And anyway, there was a shit coin that launched on base called bald.

302
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:23,440
I'm surprised that Rama was not onto this straightaway.

303
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:29,800
But this coin was listed and everybody was very excited about it because of the depth

304
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:35,160
of liquidity that this coin had in comparison to other shit coins.

305
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,880
And so ultimately it was a rug, but it was a pretty like, you know, it was a pretty well

306
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:48,000
executed rug where the person who created it, you know, hyped it, added a heap of liquidity

307
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:54,000
and then was buying it themselves to pump up the price and then let it have a pretty

308
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:59,040
good run up on price and then gave it a little bit and then added more liquidity and then

309
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:04,040
bought more of it, debate more people into buying it as another pump where it doubled

310
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,840
and then immediately rugged out all of the liquidity.

311
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:12,560
So I think they put in like a fair amount of capital for this particular rug.

312
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,400
I think it was something like $12 million worth of capital to actually perform the rug.

313
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,840
And I think they made maybe like half a million dollars or something like that.

314
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:28,520
But if that seems like to me $12.5 million in Reese's, I mean, maybe Reese should do

315
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,520
Null's News Corner.

316
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,080
He seems to know all the news far better than me.

317
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,120
But in any case, I think he walked away with maybe, oh, okay.

318
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,360
So Reese says they made 20 million profit.

319
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,360
That is pretty good in terms of profit.

320
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,840
But I thought that only made like half a million or something like that.

321
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,840
But I was going to say, is it really worth the capital if you're only making sort of

322
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,560
like half a million dollars with that amount of capital, with that amount of risk?

323
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,720
But I mean, if they made that much, then yeah, worth it for them.

324
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:02,880
Not so much for the users they rugged.

325
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,840
Reese says he's the intern.

326
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,440
Maybe you should like give me a summary before the potty.

327
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,480
To some extent, we're all the intern.

328
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,640
We are all the intern.

329
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:14,880
All right.

330
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,760
So once again, the week of rugs.

331
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,000
And I do have another piece of news here that I made a note about.

332
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:28,480
However, I'm going to have to just quickly review this if you want to say a few words

333
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,040
in the meantime, because I forgot what it was about.

334
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,280
I can talk about further about re-entrances tax, if you like.

335
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:41,600
No, this was exactly about the, this was just more info on that particular rug in this little

336
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,520
what, no, there was, I don't know what's going on here.

337
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,520
I'm not very good at the internet.

338
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:48,520
Okay.

339
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,520
Oh yeah.

340
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,560
So I mean, this one's not like anything really new.

341
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,360
So this was more about the SEC telling Coinbase that they need to delist everything other

342
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:06,000
than Bitcoin, because you know, everything's a security unless it's Bitcoin.

343
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,000
But that's old news.

344
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,000
They've been doing that for years.

345
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,000
Yeah.

346
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,160
I mean, that's been for a while.

347
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,320
And that is all the items of interest that I put together this week.

348
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,280
So over to you, Defray.

349
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,280
So I've come up with a more succinct explanation for the re-entrancy thing.

350
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,800
And it is simply that solidity allows you to call into another contract and trigger execution.

351
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:36,960
Whereas the way that Russ essentially in Cosmos, everything's modeled as Russ results, kind

352
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,760
of a chain of monads, but that's not really important.

353
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,320
Each execution succeeds or fails, but they are all chained together.

354
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,120
So when you call another contract, it's actually just another thing stuck on the chain.

355
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:53,240
And then they all, all those, all those things have to succeed together, although they occur

356
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,960
in a sequence, in a chain.

357
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,320
So it's less likely that you will have outbound behavior.

358
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,640
And in addition, when contracts call into your contract, you have to provide a hook for

359
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,040
it where you define the behavior in a really specific way.

360
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,680
So it's less likely that you get caught in some really random way because you have to

361
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:16,160
be called with a payload that's serialized and then validated by your contract within

362
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,160
certain bounds.

363
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,000
Now, of course, you could have like a bug in your serialization library and then you're

364
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,480
still kind of be fucked potentially without bound behavior.

365
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,120
But it makes it less likely again.

366
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:31,360
So it's this, it's this kind of putting guard rails in by design, but you're still you claiming

367
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:35,920
anything is 100% safe is obviously just like not correct because there's always bugs.

368
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:36,920
And that's the summary.

369
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:46,160
Actually, I heard this really simple ELI five about reentry, reentry attacks.

370
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,960
So this is an example in which let's say you want to throw a basketball into the basket

371
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,960
and you clearly don't know how to do it.

372
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,640
So there is like a professional basketball player in front of you.

373
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,640
So in traditional way, you just possible to that person and they throw it and then succeed

374
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,840
success.

375
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:09,840
But the way solidity does it is instead of you passing it to them, you kind of borrow

376
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,240
their skill set for a while so that you can show it.

377
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,440
I mean, this is you might be on the you might be on the laptop and not on the thing or the

378
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,440
other way around.

379
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,960
I'll check your robot in a tiny bit.

380
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:24,960
Well, okay.

381
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,960
Yeah.

382
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,600
So the way solidity does it is you want to throw the basket into the hoop, but you don't

383
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:37,160
have the skill set, so you just kind of borrow the skill set of this professional player.

384
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,840
But in that case, you don't actually need to give them the ball.

385
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,760
You can just borrow the skill set and throw it yourself.

386
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,000
But what solidity does is you aim to borrow the skill set, but you're also giving them

387
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,360
the ball in the process.

388
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,560
So now they can do whatever they want with that.

389
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,960
So even though that's the flaw of the architecture that you only need to borrow their skill, you

390
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,280
don't need to give them the ball to actually do it.

391
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,480
Because you're handing them the power of execution in the runtime, essentially.

392
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,480
Yeah.

393
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,000
So if they do out of bound behavior, you don't have control over it.

394
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,040
Whereas what you want to do is have as much control as you can have over out of bound

395
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,040
behavior.

396
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Yeah.

397
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,040
Okay.

398
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,040
Your explanation is a lot better than mine.

399
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,040
Yeah.

400
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,040
This was like E.L.

401
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,040
Like I went island.

402
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,640
How re-intensive was because there's so much jargon you get into it, especially Ethereum

403
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,680
specific jargon.

404
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,720
Do you understand it now, Nell?

405
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,720
No.

406
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,720
Okay.

407
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,720
Spook, have another go.

408
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,800
I didn't get it.

409
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:30,800
I believe.

410
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,800
I get it.

411
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,800
So hang on.

412
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:33,800
Well, maybe.

413
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:39,600
So what you're saying is that basically your contracts give some control to another contract

414
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,080
to do something for them, but they give them too much control and then they can do stuff

415
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,080
with it.

416
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,080
Is that what you're saying?

417
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:52,280
For the audience that can't see this, Spook is nodding that I sort of get it, but not

418
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,280
really.

419
00:25:53,280 --> 00:26:00,600
Like her head's nodding, but the look on her face is like, who is this guy?

420
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,840
So that's the entrancey covered, done, done and dusted.

421
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,040
We've got a couple of important items before proceeding.

422
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,760
One of them involves Spook.

423
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:12,760
The other one doesn't.

424
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,480
We'll do the non-Spook one first because then we can actually just like actually go on to

425
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,480
Spook section.

426
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:25,360
The first one is Draw Tweet of the Week, which this week comes from the Tough Guys section

427
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,520
and I'm sorry, I can't, I can't replicate JX energy.

428
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,960
But I've taken off my shirt over a thousand times, sorry, over 10,000 times.

429
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:35,960
There you go.

430
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:36,960
That's the tweet.

431
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,440
I mean, that's a lot of times to count.

432
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,320
So you said that was from the Tough Guys section.

433
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,320
From the Tough Guys section.

434
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,440
There's a whole section dedicated to Tough Guys.

435
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,160
That must be a Tough Guy thing to do to take off your shirt a lot.

436
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:57,720
I feel like you have moved away from the random Draw Tweet of the Week into a curated Draw

437
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,760
Tweet of the Week seeing as though you went straight to that.

438
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,000
I mean, it wasn't particularly random, I guess in a sense, because I just flicked through

439
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,640
the book and I guess if I was going to be completely random about it, I would know how

440
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,560
many pages were there and I would use a random number generator to generate the page, right?

441
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,920
And then just where would you get your entropy?

442
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,920
Noise network.

443
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:19,920
Noise.

444
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,520
The League of Entropy would furnish me with the entropy required.

445
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,600
No, I would go to the fucking console and type RAND.

446
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,600
RAND.

447
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:30,600
Like, yeah, though.

448
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,240
Move your mouse around a little bit.

449
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,320
Every single programming language has a random function, but a lot of them call out to the

450
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,640
system clock and other random bullshit, so they're not like...

451
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,880
I mean, randomness as we've established is a pretty complicated concept.

452
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:54,560
I defer to Simon Water on this and the many, many books and whatnot.

453
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,520
I don't like to pretend I understand randomness particularly well, although I have read a

454
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,080
book on the subject called The Drunkard's Walk, which I'd recommend.

455
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,200
I like when you used to generate some keys, some SSH keys, you'd have to move your mouse

456
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,360
around to generate some entropy.

457
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:12,400
That was always fun.

458
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,400
But I don't know, they moved away from that, right?

459
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,400
I haven't done that in a while.

460
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,400
I can't even remember the last time that happened.

461
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,160
I don't know if that's just particular systems or...

462
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,160
It's probably Windows.

463
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,160
Maybe.

464
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,160
Yeah, it can confirm it's how it works on Windows.

465
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,360
Oh, it's a Windows thing.

466
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,840
Because there's no other available source of randomness, I guess.

467
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,440
You've got to move your mouse around.

468
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:41,240
Maybe it's just like time since last fucking crash would be pretty random for Windows.

469
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:48,040
Well, it'd be pretty low number.

470
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:55,800
So a piece of non-use, but also non why we got Spoo on the show this week, is when Spoo

471
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:01,120
was last on, which was I think a couple of months ago, maybe a bit longer actually, in

472
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,440
the after show, we were talking about keyboards because obviously there's a lot of interest

473
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,800
in the thing you use all day every day.

474
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,840
And Spoo was talking about getting a...

475
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,280
I was like, can I dock Spoo's keyboard?

476
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,280
I've gotten so fucking paranoid.

477
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,280
This is what crypto does, you know?

478
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,520
I'm like, oh, I can't say the name of the keyboard.

479
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,440
What the hell, man?

480
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,200
So this is a...

481
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,200
What is your keyboard speed?

482
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,200
I think it's called Charabdis.

483
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,280
But I have two right now because this is too bulky to move with me.

484
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,120
I have a portable one.

485
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,000
That is also from the same guy as the bussard keyboard.

486
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,440
So you've got a portable one too.

487
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,440
Is it the same model?

488
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,440
No, no, no.

489
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,440
That's the dilemma.

490
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,440
Oh, wow.

491
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,440
I've not seen that.

492
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,440
That's a little bit like a KRKBD.

493
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,440
Well, what's that?

494
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:51,440
Hang on.

495
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,440
Sorry, we've got to go.

496
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,440
You've got to do...

497
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,000
What are those pad things?

498
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Is that a...

499
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,000
This is a trackpad.

500
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Like a mouse.

501
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,000
It's got a trackpad.

502
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,000
Yes.

503
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,000
That's why I got this.

504
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Oh, that's cool.

505
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,000
Yeah.

506
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Damn.

507
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,640
So that's what, like a 38 key or something?

508
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,640
Split Ergo?

509
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,640
Yeah, 38.

510
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,640
Damn.

511
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,640
Okay.

512
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,440
That's really fucking cool.

513
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:23,240
It, getting that small, it's, you know, when you lose the control key on the outside, that

514
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:29,560
as soon as I lose control and escape, that's when suddenly I can't fucking function anymore.

515
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,920
My control is actually what is S in the traditional keyboard.

516
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,440
So I just tap and hold for control.

517
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,320
Because my fingers are always there.

518
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,320
So you have like a mod?

519
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,320
Yeah.

520
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,320
Yeah.

521
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Like I use a custom key map.

522
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,800
So my S and my K from a traditional keyboard would be my control.

523
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,800
Interesting.

524
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,800
That's cool.

525
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,640
But I'm also a fucking dickhead who likes to have, I like to have a different key switch

526
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:57,640
on shift.

527
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,200
I like it to be really heavy.

528
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,360
It's like a 90 gram linear.

529
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,720
Just like, ooh.

530
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:08,280
You know, you've really got to move that key, whereas all the others are like speedy boys.

531
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,560
So that's another thing you can do when you have like dedicated...

532
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,560
Yeah.

533
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,640
I do have a heavier Kale goal for the cube.

534
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,240
Because I keep pressing it by mistake when I'm playing Overwatch and I keep ulting when

535
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,240
I don't intend to.

536
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,840
You're gaming with it too.

537
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:26,840
That's pretty hardcore.

538
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:27,840
Oh, so that is...

539
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:28,840
Okay.

540
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:29,840
So I'm currently not on that.

541
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,840
Currently I am still on my moon lander.

542
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,960
Of course, moon lander.

543
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:36,960
Super cool as well.

544
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:37,960
Yeah.

545
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,880
I actually reached out to the CEO and he responded to my email.

546
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,720
Like, can you stop making Dactyl keyboards?

547
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,200
Because I really love your build qualities.

548
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,560
And then they were like, oh, we don't think there's enough market for that.

549
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:51,560
What for Dactyls?

550
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:52,560
Yeah.

551
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,680
Loads of people make Dactyls.

552
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,560
And you know, Kinesis have just released a new one.

553
00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:59,560
Yeah.

554
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,560
Yeah.

555
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,560
Yeah.

556
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,560
Yeah, I saw that.

557
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,000
But I think all the people who are into these things would rather customize it to completely

558
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,000
for themselves.

559
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,360
And even this is not exactly end game for me, this is going to be like an ultimate end

560
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,360
game.

561
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,520
And then I'm going to do like the full nerd where I track my fingers and see how long

562
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,280
and the texture of movement and custom design the case.

563
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,720
I already...

564
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,920
So I also got a keyboard from the same place.

565
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:35,680
I got the TBK mini, which is essentially a KRKBD like this.

566
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:36,680
Oh, that, yeah.

567
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,400
This is a custom one I built myself.

568
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,800
But it's essentially this, but in tented bowl form.

569
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,280
So similar to Spooey's.

570
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,240
I have stubby little fingers though, like real stubby little boys and stubby little thumbs.

571
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:57,760
It's hard to tell on the camera, but I can't fucking reach the bottom key on this.

572
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,440
On this is like tented and fancy.

573
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,000
And you're like, oh, this is very ergonomic.

574
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,480
And I can't fucking hit the answer button because my thumbs are too small.

575
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:11,920
I'm like, oh, the same happened with Moomender, the most furthest away keys.

576
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,360
So I just use them for things I don't normally do like print screen because I might just

577
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,600
take my hand off of the keyboard for that.

578
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,600
Yeah.

579
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,040
It kind of makes me think that maybe I kind of already peaked with because the KRKBD just

580
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,240
flat on the table.

581
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,240
I have it set up.

582
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,440
So it's very slightly angled.

583
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,920
It just has legs that just made me slightly angle this way.

584
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,800
And for whatever reason, it's just the right size for my hands.

585
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,600
It's super crowded together, but like have stubby little hands.

586
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,120
And I think that actually maybe over-optimizing beyond this point is not going to work unless

587
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,640
I go like full measure my fucking hand, learn 3D printing, learn just...

588
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:57,440
I think it's quite easy because the place where you got it from, all the 3D printing

589
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,040
files, everything is open source.

590
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,880
So you just have to like move things around.

591
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:02,880
That is true.

592
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,560
I mean, originally I was thinking I should do it for the Dactyl because it's all written

593
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,560
in closure.

594
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:13,320
And like I'm one of the few fucking weirdos that's actually worked many years of their

595
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,160
life in that programming language.

596
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,800
So could totally modify it and build my own keyboard.

597
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,640
But I got to a point of laziness with it.

598
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:22,640
I built, I think...

599
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,640
One, two...

600
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,640
I don't know.

601
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,160
I want to say there's about six or seven keyboards knocking around here on the shelves

602
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,160
and whatnot.

603
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,040
And you kind of get... you know, you get to like 90% there.

604
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:40,280
I think like maybe 90, 95% there is the point where I get off on the over-optimization train.

605
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,280
I don't know.

606
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,880
It sounds like you're prepared to go a lot deeper than I am.

607
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:44,880
That's kind of my feeling.

608
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,680
I can see it in your eyes.

609
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,680
You're not going to take no for an answer on that final 10%.

610
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,520
No, I'm just like...

611
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:57,280
I'm just going to try it as long as my mental malleability hasn't died off.

612
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,440
So however long that takes.

613
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:06,480
Because I moved from Korty to Colmack about one and a half years ago and that felt...

614
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,680
That is the toughest thing in my life that I've done.

615
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,760
The way you feel when your fingers are doing not what you want them to do, your brain and

616
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,800
your body are doing completely different things.

617
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,800
It was a weirdo.

618
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,920
And I feel like it was kind of fun though.

619
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,160
So maybe I should try more.

620
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:30,280
How do you deal when you're just having to type on a regular laptop?

621
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,320
Oh, that's actually easy.

622
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,760
Somehow my brain is like, oh, if you're on a split keyboard, you're on Colmack.

623
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,960
If you're on a membrane keyboard, it's Korty.

624
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,640
So it works both ways.

625
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,160
Okay, that's great.

626
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,880
Because this is going back a few years when I first got into building my own keyboards,

627
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,360
I was like, do I switch?

628
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,920
And I was just like, I spend half of my week on just like, no...

629
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,000
I'm not going to have a choice, I'm going to have to be on a Korty keyboard.

630
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,760
And I bustled it, but you're telling me that I could have just changed years ago and I've

631
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,480
just wasted five years of my life.

632
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,480
Cool.

633
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:05,480
I think it's still possible.

634
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,160
I asked one of my colleagues who's like 45, I think, and he was able to switch to Colmack

635
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,160
and...

636
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,160
Hey, come on, I'm not 45, what do I look like?

637
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:18,160
I'm just saying, like, a person older than you could do it easily in two weeks, so it

638
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,160
should be fine.

639
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,720
I like the vote of support, but maybe I don't know.

640
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:26,720
I fear it now.

641
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:27,720
I mean, it's cool.

642
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:28,720
Colmack is easy.

643
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:33,640
Colmack is easy because your shortcuts almost all stay the same.

644
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:39,280
So your control C, all that stays, Dwarak might be too much.

645
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,000
But also, I don't think it's very useful.

646
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,600
They're working with programmers.

647
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,200
Null over here is still trying to figure out how to use a Korty keyboard.

648
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,640
I mean, we only got to control an R last week, didn't we?

649
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,040
Control an A, control an E.

650
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,840
Yeah, all very handy.

651
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:56,840
Thank you.

652
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:02,440
I'm guessing that your workload this week took probably 20 minutes compared to the week

653
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,440
before.

654
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,600
Now you know control R.

655
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,120
You're just like, this validator shit's easy.

656
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,480
Why is everybody complaining about it being loads of work?

657
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,840
I mean, I forgot about the control R.

658
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,240
I was thought I had to go back and look up the show notes.

659
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,600
It did save you time, right?

660
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:24,520
Like it was pretty marginal.

661
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,800
To be honest, my history gripping was reasonably good to begin with.

662
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,880
So does it save time?

663
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:34,880
Yes.

664
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,600
Is it world changing for me?

665
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,600
No.

666
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,720
I mean, the control A is handy, though.

667
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,240
That is definitely handy.

668
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,240
Fair enough.

669
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:44,320
Like, wait till you learn about regular expressions.

670
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,480
Although to be fair, again, it's very, I pretty much only use regular expressions when I'm

671
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,400
manipulating data to do my taxes.

672
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,600
So you know.

673
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,760
I mean, I already know about regular expressions.

674
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,760
I use them.

675
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:55,760
I fucking hate them.

676
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,760
You hate them.

677
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,480
Well, I hate how they're implemented into software as a regular expression.

678
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,640
You're going to have to expand on that a bit.

679
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:05,640
For example.

680
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,200
That's a weak statement.

681
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:13,040
Well, I just, for example, like in Xabix, right, you can use, you know, how do you know

682
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,440
a guy who uses Xabix if I can talk about it all the time.

683
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,120
If I can tell you.

684
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,960
You know, you can have filtering with regular expression, but it doesn't seem to be like

685
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,680
there's different kinds of regular expression like how you use it.

686
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:35,760
So I think the way Xabix uses it is more like how you would use it in Perl or something

687
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:36,760
like that.

688
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,880
So I don't know.

689
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,680
It's confusing to me because if I go to like one of those websites where you can just put

690
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:51,840
in your regex, regex, like your, your data and then your regex expression and it'll like,

691
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,160
you know, filter the data live.

692
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,840
So you can see if your expression works or not.

693
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,760
And then, you know, I can't just copy paste that into, you know, the other thing.

694
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,840
It's like, no, that's not a regex expression.

695
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,000
So I don't know.

696
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,000
I need to.

697
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,120
It's not a regex.

698
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,720
It's a regex.

699
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:14,360
So that's, it's regular expressions.

700
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,520
Sorry.

701
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,840
I say regula.

702
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,000
Reg X.

703
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,000
Yeah.

704
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,520
So I don't know.

705
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,960
I'm dumb with reg X.

706
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,520
I'm going to, I'm going to try and say that properly for you now, Spoo.

707
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,920
So it's very much a me thing probably, but I find it frustrating.

708
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,720
I mean, you could just look up a poll where I get tester on online and they could test

709
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,680
you reg X is like easy peasy.

710
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:49,040
Reg X sometimes one, sometimes the other spice of life.

711
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:54,800
So have Spoo and I convince you to get an ergonomic ortho linear?

712
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,760
Oh, what's the, what's the third category?

713
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,040
Because they're bold as well.

714
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,040
Aren't they?

715
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,040
Tented?

716
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,040
No.

717
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,160
There's the stagger, the column there was a star.

718
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:18,120
It's columnar staggered ortho linear ergonomic 10 keyless with a thumb cluster, thumb cluster

719
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,360
keyboard.

720
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,640
How we convince you to get one now.

721
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,160
So all the buzzwords are there pretty much.

722
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:29,280
There may be more keyboard buzz, keyboard buzzwords, but I'm not certain there are.

723
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:37,440
I feel like whilst this gentleman that Spoo is referring to was able to make the transition.

724
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,840
I've, I, I also like, I feel like there's quite a lot of work involved in that.

725
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,320
Um, like not just using it.

726
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,640
Like I feel like if he was able to make the transition, he probably spent a fair amount

727
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,600
of time sitting there practicing.

728
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,560
And I don't really have time for practice on things.

729
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:05,280
Like I've, you know, gotten out the, the typing, uh, you know, practice thing to try and improve

730
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:12,080
my typing, but then at pretty short point after that, realized that in reality, do I

731
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,400
really sit there and bash out 10,000 words?

732
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,440
Do I really need to be able to type that quick?

733
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:25,440
And then so I decided that the investment of time for the benefit of that time use was

734
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,800
not really worth it.

735
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,520
Uh, do I need an ergonomic?

736
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:29,520
Keyboard?

737
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,520
I don't think so.

738
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,520
I don't really like, you can keep a normal key map though.

739
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,520
You can just customize a key map to what you use most often.

740
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,800
I mean, yeah, I just, I don't, I don't feel like it's going to benefit me that much that

741
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,000
I would bother.

742
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,000
That's not the shit on.

743
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:53,440
So without lead just or totally near there is one called plank by ZSA, which is, which

744
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,320
is like a normal keyboard is just awfully near instead of real staggers.

745
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:04,240
So linear is the hardest individual trans thing to get used to, I think probably.

746
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:08,160
I don't know what you think, but like, it's so weird the first time you're like, because

747
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:16,600
you're used to just doing that slight normal keyboard and you're like, I think for me,

748
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,680
the split was the hardest part because I did not learn typing the right way.

749
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:26,400
So I was using the wrong fingers for like B and, you know, G and I would try to type

750
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,640
it, but it's on the other half of the keyboard when I split it.

751
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:36,200
So, so if you are not accurately typing that would be the most difficult part, I think.

752
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,720
I mean, I use this piece of shit.

753
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:42,320
So, you know, so, 20 bucks.

754
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:47,520
One of the big things that is genuinely useful, right, is that you are at your desk all day

755
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,480
and you are interacting with the computer in some way.

756
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:51,880
And yes, we are cold.

757
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,720
We are selling you keyboards.

758
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:56,480
And not that Jehovah's Witnesses, we're worse.

759
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,680
We are the custom keyboard club.

760
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,680
Sorry, no.

761
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:07,200
But like, for example, just looking at my desk here, I have my keyboard spaced like that,

762
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,960
like pretty much sort of together and that far apart when they're on the tabletop.

763
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,680
So and facing in like that.

764
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,640
So my hands are, what would it be like that?

765
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,080
That's how I type with a split keyboard.

766
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,120
Whereas on a normal keyboard, you have to kind of type like that.

767
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,120
I don't know.

768
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,200
It's just like that's how your body wants to have your hands sat on the table.

769
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,080
And it's really, until you have it, you don't know you need it.

770
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,400
And then you're just like, oh, it's just like one less thing you're straining your body with

771
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,160
throughout the course of the working day.

772
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,960
You're just like, my hands are in a place that makes sense to me while I'm typing.

773
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,880
Like which in my case is like fingers almost touching, but still sort of separate on two

774
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:49,880
different pieces.

775
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,880
I don't know.

776
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,880
Do you set yours up?

777
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,520
Like, like that, Spear?

778
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,800
Or are you like, so I've seen some people with them out, which is crazy to me, but, or are

779
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,440
you kind of inward?

780
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,160
Mine is like this, but like this.

781
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,120
So it's, oh, you're tending as well, aren't you?

782
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,120
Yeah.

783
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:12,400
But I go into every keyboard because I developed RSI and that was, that got so bad.

784
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,560
I couldn't even use a keyboard for two weeks because the pain over here was too bad.

785
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,960
And I had to do like a bunch of physiotherapy to fix that.

786
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,120
So I was like, I need to get into this for health's sake.

787
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:31,040
So I'm not like, I'm not shitting on people who do use like these types of keyboards.

788
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,720
All I'm saying is that I think the time cost to benefit from me in particular is not really

789
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:40,400
like worth it at the moment.

790
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,440
Maybe if I get RSI, it might be worth it at that point.

791
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:49,800
But like I said, I don't really sit there bashing out like heaps on my keyboard anyway.

792
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,360
More of a thinker.

793
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:54,360
Think about doing that.

794
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,360
And then don't.

795
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:01,520
I mean, to be fair, I guess like one of the things I do is write reports and write stuff.

796
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,160
And yeah, I mean, I write, I guess I, in fact, I know I can look at the word count of what

797
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,280
I've typed today, which is 3,840 words.

798
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:15,800
So I, I guess like I'm going to be more on it because like, I like Spoo, I got, I got

799
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:16,800
a really bad RSI.

800
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,160
I got my thumb from actually from cycling, so cycle a lot.

801
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,840
And it meant I couldn't type super well.

802
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,160
It was kind of like this whole, this hand was just a bit, got a bit weird.

803
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,640
Like it just didn't have much like, it sounds really weird to be like, yeah, you kind of

804
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,240
felt like it was hard to type.

805
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:36,280
Like it was functionally hard to type.

806
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,760
It wasn't like I was dropping stuff on the floor like an old person, but just like certain

807
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:41,920
skill activities.

808
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,160
My hand was just like not really 100%.

809
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,240
Anyway, we've talked about keyboards a lot.

810
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:48,240
Well, hang on it.

811
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:55,760
One final thought is that, you know, while I'm thinking about it, I think that maybe

812
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:03,200
if typing was like typing fast and ergonomics was a big issue for me, I think that I might

813
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:11,960
like probably spend time learning how to dictate to like an AI interpreter better than actually

814
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:12,960
type.

815
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,840
I don't have to use my hands at all.

816
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,360
And then just do the amendments that I need with the keyboard.

817
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,480
I think that would be a better way for me than trying to learn some crazy bullshit.

818
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,760
So I think that's fine for language, but both codes that might be very difficult.

819
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,840
I'll have you know, Sporthy, that I don't do that much coding.

820
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:39,080
Well, but the flip side of that, I guess, is that, you know, to your point now, I can

821
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:46,440
think of probably only three times in my career where my speed of typing had really any meaningful

822
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,720
impact on my work as a programmer.

823
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,680
Yeah, I mean, very rarely need to type super fast as a programmer.

824
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,880
You need to type accurately.

825
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:02,200
And yeah, specifically for me doing any type of code, my hand speed is not the problem.

826
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,720
Like it's more for most people writing code.

827
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:10,880
I mean, like even if you crank out a thousand lines in a day or more, like a lot of what

828
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,720
you're doing, you're like type, type, type, type, type, type, type, type, type, type,

829
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,840
you know, there's lots of like the number of words you're right to write a thousand

830
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,880
lines of code is probably only 2000 words or something that's like substantially less

831
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,120
than the equivalent natural language.

832
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:33,680
So I would like a day in the seat for me of trying to like, I'm air quoting to those

833
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:39,040
who can't see this code would be me like scribbling on a piece of paper to work out what I want

834
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,320
to do and then sort of just doing that slowly.

835
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:47,160
I don't really like have any reason to be able to type code fast because anything that

836
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,000
I'm doing is not like a complex program.

837
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,760
It's just something small that is more of like me figuring out how to do the small thing

838
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,000
than actually typing the small thing.

839
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,880
So yeah, code wise, I don't need to, I don't need to be fast at all.

840
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,960
So actually my speed has gone down.

841
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:10,920
My peak was when I was on a normal keyboard using QWERTY two years ago.

842
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,000
I have never actually reached that yet, but it's about comfort.

843
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,760
Your hands are just happier now.

844
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:17,760
Even if you're not comfortable.

845
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,080
Yeah, it's gonna save, but you're more comfortable, Spoo.

846
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,960
And that's the important thing.

847
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,160
My comfort's not important to me.

848
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:34,080
Now I think the things that improved my office life the most is buying a decent chair.

849
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:39,320
So that has probably been the biggest impact on my office ergonomics.

850
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,080
A decent chair and a decent desk is sort of...

851
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,720
Actually this keyboard that I have, you see the holes in the back?

852
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,280
You can attach it to armchairs of your keyboard.

853
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,000
So the two split hops are on your hand.

854
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,760
That would work well with my chair because I've got one of the ones where those armrest

855
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,120
things, they move around absolutely everywhere.

856
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,720
Oh, have you got one of the super fancy ones?

857
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:05,520
Yeah, I invested in a chair.

858
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:10,720
I spent enough on a chair that you could say I invested in a chair.

859
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:15,480
Okay, so to be fair, a really, really big thing that I think makes a massive difference

860
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,320
to working life is, and this is again one of those things where if you...

861
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:24,720
I think really good during COVID and stuff is people got a control over this though.

862
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:25,720
I'm not sure.

863
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:29,320
I think a lot of people probably didn't think as much about it.

864
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,440
Probably I thought about it too much.

865
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:35,760
But having a good chair with decent lower back support is obviously super important.

866
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:41,120
But I have the cheapest desk chair you can get from IKEA that's got a really firm back.

867
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,320
It's like $100 and it's perfect.

868
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,320
It's really supportive.

869
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:46,320
I love it.

870
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,360
The thing for me that is really helpful for comfort of the desk is desk height because

871
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,720
if you have a slightly lower desk, everything goes out of whack really quickly.

872
00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:01,240
So I just need like literally it's like five or 10 centimeters higher than the average

873
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:02,240
desk height.

874
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,360
So I just bought a desk that I could...

875
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,800
It's not even a movable desk.

876
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:10,680
I could just make it slightly higher when I built it, when I screwed it together.

877
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:11,680
That's it.

878
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:18,240
I got a custom desk at the office for the company.

879
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:19,240
They replaced some desks in there.

880
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:21,440
I was like, I don't want the desk that you guys are getting.

881
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,400
I'm just going to get a custom desk to a custom height.

882
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,000
And I literally just went measured this desk to the floor.

883
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,240
It was like, yeah, that's the correct height.

884
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,240
And again, you're like, oh, thank fuck.

885
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:37,440
It's so good to just have your arms at the right height when you're typing, when you're

886
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:38,440
working, whatever.

887
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,960
That's just... I'll tell you, 10 centimeters really matters.

888
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,200
I don't know if I'm being crazy, but it feels like such...

889
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,240
No, no, it's...

890
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:47,480
It makes a difference.

891
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,600
The game changer for me in particular, like...

892
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:56,640
And this is a combination of desk and chair, is actually being able to have the armrests

893
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,680
just go under the edge of my desk so that my elbows, when I'm...

894
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:06,600
When I have my hands on my keyboard, my elbows are just resting on my chair.

895
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,720
That makes a big... At the right height, so I'm not slouched or hunched.

896
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:12,840
It's just sat there at the right height.

897
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,760
I can get a full width of my keyboard.

898
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:16,760
Yeah.

899
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:22,040
And that kind of actually makes me want to use shortcuts and stuff a lot more as well

900
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,200
rather than reaching for the mouse.

901
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,960
So I've started using Mac shortcuts a lot more to jump around windows and stuff rather

902
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,240
than reaching for the mouse all the time.

903
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:36,480
I mean, once you get really comfortable keyboard, you'll just learn all that shit.

904
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:43,080
Because you'll be like, why would I ever use anything but control left, right to shift

905
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,080
around?

906
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:45,080
Well, you know what?

907
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:46,080
It's not... Is it control?

908
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,080
What is it?

909
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,000
It's so in my muscle memory that I can't even think what it is because it's just...

910
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,760
Yeah, well, yeah.

911
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:53,760
Yeah.

912
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,640
No, it's control and left and right.

913
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:56,640
Yes.

914
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,200
I had to think about it a second because my arrow keys are on the lower layer.

915
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,800
So I'm using the lower layer of the keyboard to get to the arrow keys, but not because

916
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,840
the control key is different.

917
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,960
Spoo's probably sitting down there thinking...

918
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,680
He's not got an optimized layout.

919
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,680
Clearly.

920
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:14,680
None of this is Linux.

921
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,240
It's on this fucking layout.

922
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:20,200
Do you use Linux day-to-day Spoo?

923
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,440
Are you like on a Mac or...?

924
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,680
And on Windows, I use WSL.

925
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,280
Oh, oh, you use WSL, do you?

926
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:29,280
Yeah.

927
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:36,640
I'm not rich enough to have two computers, so I need Windows.

928
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,120
I had to just make the change at one point.

929
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:46,920
I used to use Windows for certain things and Mac for certain things, and it was just annoying.

930
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,160
And so I just had to rip the Band-Aid off and go like just to one or the other.

931
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:57,960
The problem I found for DevOps with Windows is just that it feels so much more native

932
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:03,240
in Linux or Mac than in Windows.

933
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:11,480
And specifically when you need to have access to USB via a Linux console, it doesn't really

934
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,280
work with WSL.

935
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,280
So that was more or less...

936
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,120
Yeah, I think that ringing was the next release of WSL.

937
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:26,040
I'm sure they're going to keep constantly improving it, but I did like the isolation of it a little

938
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:27,040
bit.

939
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,480
I found it annoying to get to the files.

940
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,240
You can dual boot.

941
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:33,720
That's always there.

942
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:34,720
A what?

943
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:35,720
Dual boot.

944
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:36,720
Oh, dual boot, yeah.

945
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:38,080
Yeah, I guess, yeah.

946
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,720
You could dual boot in a Linux.

947
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:41,800
There's always that option.

948
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:49,040
I have just found though that the tools available and stuff on Mac are pretty far ahead of what

949
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,520
you can do in Windows for my specific use case.

950
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:59,320
So I guess it's probably not that different, I guess.

951
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,920
If you're coding, I guess it's probably not that much of an issue.

952
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,480
There's go for Windows, right?

953
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,920
And then your Visual Studio and everything.

954
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,720
You've been WSL anyway, so...

955
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:18,200
Yeah, I guess you can just connect Visual Studio Code straight to WSL too, right?

956
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,200
Yeah, yeah.

957
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:24,680
I used WSL just to build the binaries because it's hard to build stuff for Windows, but

958
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,480
everything else I do, I have Windows, so this code runs from Windows itself.

959
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:29,480
I see.

960
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,480
All right, okay.

961
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,920
So here, why did you do that?

962
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:33,920
Not dual boot.

963
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:40,400
Out of pure curiosity, because I used to run Linux dual booted off a Windows machine,

964
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:45,680
and I literally had Windows just in case like work sent me a fucking PowerPoint or something.

965
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:54,960
Like I'd just be in Linux 90% of the time, and it was like a secondhand refurb Lenovo,

966
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,840
Carbon, one of the Ultrabooks, like the ThinkPads, the fucking rad.

967
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:07,040
And it was like an 8GB RAM machine, but it was still on fucking even a bunty.

968
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,040
It was just so fast.

969
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:15,480
And I got given a work machine in the end that was like 16GB or maybe even more RAM

970
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:21,720
Mac, and the Mac wasn't as fast as the Windows machine with the Linux machine with 8GB RAM,

971
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:24,280
because it was just so fucking efficient.

972
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,480
It's just such a light OS by comparison.

973
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:33,840
Yeah, I don't do dual boot because I usually use Windows just for like entertainment reasons,

974
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:38,840
so it's like, and it's not like I work continuously, like I work from home, so it's like switching

975
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:39,840
back and forth.

976
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,280
You're doing it for gaming.

977
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,480
I did it specifically just for Overwatch and Dota, but it's nothing else.

978
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:47,480
No, okay.

979
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,960
Now I understand it because there is nothing more frustrating than being a Mac user who

980
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,400
wants to kind of goof off for about half an hour a day while you're at your desk, and

981
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,400
you go, you open up Steam and you're like, oh, shit, isn't there a new home world coming

982
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:02,400
out?

983
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,040
You're not for fucking Mac users, it's not.

984
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:10,080
Like there's certain games you can play on Mac, and as a result, I have put way too

985
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,080
many.

986
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:17,400
I've put on works on Mac into the breach works on Mac, FTL works on Mac, very fucking little

987
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:18,400
else works on Mac.

988
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:19,400
High flee.

989
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,000
I really wanted to play that fucking.

990
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,520
No, you don't get that.

991
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:28,120
That new fucking space sim that's like home world, whether that's called falling frontier,

992
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:29,160
that look really fucking sick.

993
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:30,160
Is it for Mac?

994
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,160
Is it fuck?

995
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:37,040
I got a switch thinking maybe that would be my gaming device, but I don't like controllers.

996
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,680
I prefer keyboards.

997
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:44,200
So that was a waste.

998
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,600
So I actually don't game at all.

999
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,160
But that's because you're a beeman.

1000
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,400
No, it's because I'm too addictive.

1001
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:58,240
So when I was at college, I used to be stuck on Dota 2.

1002
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:03,120
I'd just play that shit every day, and it ruined about two years of my life.

1003
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:10,440
So I had to actually just cut off gaming and never game again.

1004
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,240
You have such an addictive personality that you cannot fucking game anymore.

1005
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,000
And you thought it was a good idea to get into crypto.

1006
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,000
Yeah, it's.

1007
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:24,160
Yeah, I do have like, you know, I get really into things.

1008
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,680
And like, it was a big problem for me.

1009
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:34,520
Like getting off Dota was like breaking that routine kind of really fucked me for a little

1010
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:35,520
bit.

1011
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,840
And I just don't want to experience that again.

1012
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:39,840
So I just stay right the fuck away from games.

1013
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,000
There's plenty of other shit for me to do anyway.

1014
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:47,560
Like I kind of feel like I'm pretty time poor and I feel like if I played games, I'd be

1015
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,320
really time poor because they're like really fun.

1016
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:56,120
So I sometimes put on let's plays in the background when I'm working.

1017
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:01,240
So I feel like I still have video games my life, but I realistically don't have time

1018
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:02,240
to play them anymore.

1019
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:07,720
And it makes me really like, I really wanted to get involved in Battlefield 2042.

1020
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:12,600
When that came out, I was like, I love a love big online arena shooters with loads of vehicles,

1021
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:13,600
even though I'm shit at them.

1022
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:17,480
And I was just like, this is not a thing I can actually do in my life anymore.

1023
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:22,520
So I'm just going to have to put on let's plays while I'm fucking around on the command

1024
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,880
line on remote servers, and I'm going to have to pretend that I got to play that game.

1025
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:28,880
It's quite sad.

1026
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,000
Actually, now I've said it out loud, it sounds really fucking sad, doesn't it?

1027
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,000
What a first world problem.

1028
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:38,600
You just have to wait a couple of years and you can do it with your child in college,

1029
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,800
call it Father London.

1030
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,160
Lego Star Wars.

1031
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:48,400
I've realized the only reason Lego Star Wars exists is because parents want an excuse to

1032
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:49,520
play video games.

1033
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:55,320
Like every bloke I've worked with who is like a few years old, and he's been like, fucking,

1034
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,080
let me tell you, I don't get to play Call of Duty, but Lego Star Wars.

1035
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,320
And I'm like, and now I see it.

1036
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:05,080
And I'm like, I see, I see this is in my future.

1037
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,080
It's looking enticing now.

1038
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:08,080
But yeah, 100%.

1039
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,080
Either that or just go straight to cod with like a three year old.

1040
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,680
Be like, so we need to make the bad people go away.

1041
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,680
I feel like having kids is just...

1042
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:20,360
Bomb their village and then the surrounding villages just to be certain.

1043
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,240
And then it's not a war crime.

1044
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,520
It's going to be a police action.

1045
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,240
And this is called International Relations, little one.

1046
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,640
Anyway, now it's time for your bath.

1047
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:37,040
Do you think dads enjoy being dads so much just because of all of the shit they get to

1048
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:41,440
do that they couldn't do before without being like, why are you doing that?

1049
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:46,000
For example, play games or even just like go outside?

1050
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,760
I think there's probably a tipping point.

1051
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:48,760
I mean, I don't know.

1052
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,080
I haven't got there yet.

1053
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,040
But like when they're a bit older and you can be like, we're going to go ride a bike

1054
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,120
or play around in a sandpit.

1055
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:01,040
I'm fucking looking forward to making sandcastles for starters.

1056
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:02,480
Lego Star Wars already mentioned that.

1057
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,400
Board games, fucking big like board.

1058
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,120
I don't, you know, there's only three of us in the house.

1059
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:08,880
So like, you know, we got a lot of board games.

1060
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,560
There aren't enough people to play.

1061
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,440
But when the little one could play board games, there's three of us that unlocks a lot of

1062
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:15,880
other board games.

1063
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,160
You know, my partner loves playing board games.

1064
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:20,160
Shit.

1065
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:21,160
You own wingspan yet?

1066
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,800
I mean, speaking of like, we're trying to sell you fucking, fucking ergonomic keyboards,

1067
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:26,800
right?

1068
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:28,680
I feel like me and Spoo have maybe done a hard sell.

1069
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,800
It hasn't been fully successful, but wingspan.

1070
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,600
So you didn't let me finish.

1071
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:34,600
Correct.

1072
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,600
I fucking hate board games.

1073
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:45,480
But my partner, every year when we go to like Christmas and shit with my partner's family,

1074
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,360
they're all like big into board games.

1075
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,920
And I'm like the grouch that doesn't want to play the fucking things.

1076
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,840
I'm like, I just want to get drunk and relax.

1077
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:52,840
What was the trauma?

1078
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,360
What was the trauma in your childhood?

1079
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:55,360
Nothing.

1080
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,520
I'm just bad at board games, especially like, you know, the ones where the general knowledge

1081
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,520
like trivia and stuff.

1082
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,680
We're talking about good board games here.

1083
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:05,680
Come on.

1084
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,160
They love that one.

1085
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,160
What's that one?

1086
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,800
We've got like all the numbers and you have to, oh, no, letters.

1087
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:12,800
What?

1088
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:13,800
Not Scrabble?

1089
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:14,800
Scrabble?

1090
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:15,800
I don't know.

1091
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:16,800
No, I think it's numbers.

1092
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:22,280
There's another version of Scrabble as well, where you put in like plus sign, minus sign

1093
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,080
to make the numbers match.

1094
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:28,280
No, this one's like, you've got like a little panel, you're like all these numbers.

1095
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,000
There's a lot of math involved.

1096
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,400
There's sequences you have to make.

1097
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:32,400
I don't know.

1098
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:40,520
It sounds like you're getting pissed off about games that aren't like fun board games like

1099
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:47,160
Catan or fucking pandemic or wingspan or whatever that have actually been designed with a lot

1100
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,360
of thought and care into their mechanics.

1101
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:54,160
I've never heard of any of those, but I mean, yeah, I feel it's Spoo.

1102
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:55,160
Do you play board games?

1103
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:56,160
Do you ever play board games?

1104
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,040
Do you have opinions on board games?

1105
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,040
Not a lot.

1106
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,040
I have played wingspan and what do you think of wingspan?

1107
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:03,040
I can't see myself.

1108
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:04,040
I played it twice.

1109
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,040
I played it twice.

1110
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:10,480
I'm the first time I was the last one.

1111
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:15,600
I was the last one because it is very complicated and learning which to prioritize.

1112
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,920
The second time I came in late third and I was like, okay, I can see myself getting into

1113
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:20,920
this.

1114
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,800
I just haven't been able to play it again.

1115
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:29,840
So for a game for me, like what I'm safe, if I'm in a social environment and there's

1116
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:35,720
a game playing going on, yeah, like I really lean towards things that require me to not

1117
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,080
think like Jenga is great.

1118
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,120
I just like pulling out the little bits.

1119
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:41,800
I can get on board with that.

1120
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:47,880
For those listening later, Jacket P Potato has said in the chat, Jenga is the only game

1121
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:48,880
you need.

1122
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,200
Yeah, I mean, it's maybe true.

1123
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:52,200
It's fun.

1124
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:53,200
You get drunk.

1125
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:54,200
You pull bars out.

1126
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,200
It's for a very long time.

1127
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:00,040
Like if I'm there and I have to read the fucking rules of something, you know, the fun's already

1128
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:01,040
gone.

1129
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,280
Like I should send you like a copy of Deepsea Adventure.

1130
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:09,120
That's a pretty simple game and it's funny because you're sending interns to the bottom

1131
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,600
of the sea to collect treasure.

1132
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:16,400
And if they fuck it up, they drown and the kind of drowning interns mechanic humours

1133
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:17,400
me, humours me.

1134
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,920
God, I'm tired.

1135
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:20,920
Pleases me.

1136
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,120
If it pleases you.

1137
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:24,920
It pleases me.

1138
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,680
Sometimes the interns don't make it back now.

1139
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,280
Sometimes the interns don't make it back.

1140
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:34,720
I feel like a lot of cool little German board games.

1141
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:40,640
But that's a really weird sanding game, by the way.

1142
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,200
You have a submarine, right?

1143
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:48,840
And then you each have to send down a little sucker to go collect some treasure for you.

1144
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,240
But everybody shares the same air supply, right?

1145
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,680
So if one person gets greedy, everybody drowns.

1146
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,400
But you're still safe in the submarine telling your interns what to do.

1147
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:58,400
It's great.

1148
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,000
It's actually like CardiCaptainless because you've, I guess, bankrolled the expedition.

1149
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,960
You're just like, yeah, let's maybe dive a little deeper, see if there's some more

1150
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:06,960
treasure down there.

1151
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,880
It doesn't always work out for them.

1152
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,120
Is this a board game?

1153
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:12,120
Yeah.

1154
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:17,280
It's a little like, is I think what's called a cafe board game.

1155
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:18,280
It's like very small.

1156
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:22,920
So you can play it on like a small table with like four to four players, something like

1157
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:23,920
that.

1158
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,480
I mean, it sounds quite complex.

1159
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,600
Like it takes about five minutes to learn it.

1160
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:33,520
And then like, you know, for about 15 minutes to play the three rounds is pretty quick.

1161
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:38,280
What I mean is like the, what you're explaining here seems like you would need all this.

1162
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,800
I don't know how you represent that on a little board game.

1163
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,280
Oh, we have a little, little gubbins for, for treasure.

1164
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,200
And then you have some meeples for the interns.

1165
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,640
And you're obviously like just sitting in the submarine, there's little card submarine.

1166
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:51,640
It's kind of.

1167
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,800
It's always baffled me as like dice based board games.

1168
01:04:55,800 --> 01:05:01,320
It's like there's absolutely no, like, I mean, the whole thing's just the game of

1169
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,320
luck, right?

1170
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:08,960
Well, no, the dice is to take, is to level, partly level the playing field.

1171
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:09,960
Isn't that?

1172
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,280
I'm talking about like things like snakes and ladders.

1173
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,480
Like you throw the fucking dice and you move your bit.

1174
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,480
Like, you know, snakes and ladders.

1175
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,920
Yeah, there's no strategy in that.

1176
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,640
It's, it's, it's a representative of life.

1177
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,360
You know, you can just get fucked and there's nothing you can do about it.

1178
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:25,920
You start from scratch.

1179
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,880
Did you just say it's the game of life?

1180
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,880
You just fucking roll the dice.

1181
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:31,880
Yeah.

1182
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:32,880
I mean, that's it.

1183
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:38,200
I think like it's important to teach children that you only have very little control over

1184
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:39,200
your life.

1185
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:45,200
Now, children, no matter what you do, so no, you go today, you're fucked anyway.

1186
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:46,720
You're going down that ladder.

1187
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:52,800
You stumbled onto a point of, of you sir have obviously not looked up the historical context

1188
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,040
of snakes and ladders.

1189
01:05:54,040 --> 01:06:02,160
Snakes and ladders is based off of essentially like, like Spoo says, it is a, it is a teaching

1190
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:10,040
mechanism from the Indian subcontinent to teach about the, like the kind of circular,

1191
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:15,400
circular nature of luck and fate and that you always end up back at the bottom.

1192
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,200
It's, what's the thing about, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know,

1193
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:24,000
the famous thing from, for, there's the Latin story about, you know, don't step on my, you

1194
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,120
know, you can step on my wheel and I'll raise you up on my shoulders, but don't be surprised

1195
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:29,400
when I cast you down again.

1196
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,360
It's the same thing, but the whole point is it's a morality tale, right?

1197
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:34,720
Snakes and ladders.

1198
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,200
And then somebody just went, oh yeah, we can probably just package this and sell it.

1199
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,760
Even though it's literally the, you lose.

1200
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:42,560
That's literally the point of the game.

1201
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,280
It's an incredibly boring fucking game.

1202
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:45,280
I'll tell you that.

1203
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:46,280
Well, it's not, it's not a game.

1204
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,280
That's, it's been packaged as a game for children, but it's actually not a game.

1205
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:53,960
The same way, you know, Monopoly is, we know Monopoly is not a game.

1206
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:59,080
Either it was, it was a, I think from memory, it's Quakers.

1207
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:04,400
It's a satire of capitalism designed to show that everybody loses and even when you win,

1208
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,120
you get upset and everybody hates you.

1209
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:11,200
And when you lose, you just feel miserable and you never want to play the game again.

1210
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:15,040
And somebody thought, oh, this, this game is good.

1211
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,920
We should sell it and they packaged it and sold it.

1212
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:22,680
And everybody wonders why Monopoly causes arguments and families because it's literally

1213
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:27,880
by design, it is supposed to show that the behavior required to win Monopoly is not desirable

1214
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:28,880
in society.

1215
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:34,200
Do you know what I love about Monopoly is that it's such a good analog for the real

1216
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:42,520
world that when the bank runs out of money, it's in the rules to just write IO usershit.

1217
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:49,640
There's an amazing game called Market Meltdown, which the aim of that game is to model the

1218
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,360
2008 financial crisis.

1219
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:57,200
And it models a liquidity crisis by every time you go around the board, liquidity is

1220
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,280
taken out of the game.

1221
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,640
So everybody's dealing with less money, but you can't write IO us.

1222
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:09,360
So you just see the liquidity collapsing, but your obligations remain the same.

1223
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,800
And the, that you have to roll the dice to move, but every other mechanic is via a roulette

1224
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:15,800
wheel.

1225
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,880
So you have to place a bet and then roll a roulette, a ball or a roulette wheel.

1226
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,160
And that determines the outcome of everything that's happening to you.

1227
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:28,440
So from your point of view, all that's happening is a roulette wheel is randomly causing you

1228
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:32,720
to own money, win money, lose money, whatever, as you go around the board.

1229
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:37,520
But all that's happening is liquidity is coming out of the system because of a bank run, essentially

1230
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:38,720
it's happening in the background.

1231
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,160
And so no matter what you do, you're just like, oh God, how do I get more money?

1232
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:45,200
There's only so much liquidity left in the system.

1233
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:49,280
It's actually very, very relevant for crypto now, I think about it.

1234
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:54,560
But all that happens is like, you're just trying to survive longer than the opponents

1235
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:58,520
because everybody knows their toast in the long run because you know the capital flight

1236
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,960
is happening.

1237
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:06,640
It's complete is one of the most fun and degenerate board games in existence because by the end,

1238
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:11,760
you have such huge accumulated debts, like after only a few turns that you cannot survive

1239
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:16,560
other than by putting it all on red and just being like, roll the roulette wheel.

1240
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,560
And it's, it's great.

1241
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,040
And you're like, oh, this is why people were like, they're like, oh, shit, we've got

1242
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,440
loads of mortgage backed securities that are going fuckery over here.

1243
01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:30,280
We better go buy insurance on mortgage backed securities so that we could try and ensure

1244
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,600
ourselves against them blowing up when they inevitably blow up.

1245
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,840
You're like, oh, right, that's how that behavior actually happens.

1246
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,960
Like, so in that sense.

1247
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:41,560
Link in the show notes, folks.

1248
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:46,440
Yeah, I think I think it might sound like it's linked to Amazon.

1249
01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:47,440
I should do.

1250
01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:48,440
Shouldn't I?

1251
01:09:48,440 --> 01:09:51,240
I think I'm recommending board games that are mostly out of print.

1252
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,280
You definitely can get deep sea adventure.

1253
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:54,280
That's definitely still in print.

1254
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,800
I think market meltdown might be out of print and the even better game that the same designers

1255
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:02,760
did called war on terror is also sadly out of print.

1256
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,800
That was just the best game, which I'm not going to explain.

1257
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:06,800
Sorry.

1258
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:07,800
War on terror.

1259
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:08,800
It sounds interesting.

1260
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:15,800
It was basically like an much more sophisticated version of risk where you could model asymmetrically

1261
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:21,520
just turning to be a failed state and then do asymmetric warfare against the imperial

1262
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:22,520
powers.

1263
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,440
And it was really clever in terms of its mechanics was really cool.

1264
01:10:26,440 --> 01:10:27,440
Cool.

1265
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:28,440
So there you go.

1266
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:33,560
Whilst we have included Spoo in the show, we actually didn't talk about the conferences

1267
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:34,560
yet.

1268
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:40,480
I was going to bring that up as someone who was unable to attend any of these things

1269
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:42,000
on the other side of the planet.

1270
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:48,560
I am interested to hear so I can live vicariously through the participants eyes.

1271
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,120
Please go ahead.

1272
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:52,120
Which was okay.

1273
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:53,800
So straight up, which was the best conference?

1274
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:54,960
Let's just hit a straight.

1275
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,560
What did you go to?

1276
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:57,880
Which was the best one?

1277
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,000
Tell us the list and then tell us the best.

1278
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,360
I learned to awesome awesome and nebula.

1279
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:09,920
And I guess the more than eight CC and nebula.

1280
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:10,920
Okay.

1281
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:11,920
Yeah.

1282
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:17,320
And the other two in Paris.

1283
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,360
What about the Osmo con?

1284
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:20,360
Did you go there?

1285
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:26,520
No, I took a vacation from conference and I went to I'm strong for a weekend.

1286
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:27,520
So good.

1287
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:31,480
So what was your favorite and why?

1288
01:11:31,480 --> 01:11:36,760
Well, I'm not going to say easy because you know, this is a cosmos validator.

1289
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,320
This is not a cosmos validator.

1290
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:40,320
Anything.

1291
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,440
This is just a general crypto shit.

1292
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:46,800
Actually, I've been meaning to bring that up because the intro of the show is like

1293
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:53,240
Broadway independent validators in the cosmos and no validator news are even in the video.

1294
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:57,880
Like if I were to delegate to like where I would I know?

1295
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,560
We have changed to just a general.

1296
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:07,320
So we're we're trying to like be just more generally crypto and less like specifically

1297
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:11,400
cosmos, but also like, you know, we're just shit at marketing really.

1298
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:17,400
And that's why we don't have any kind of reference to our validators anywhere really on this

1299
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:18,400
show.

1300
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:21,400
I think for us, we kind of just like doing it for fun anyways.

1301
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:25,320
So it's not really about trying to get delegations or anything.

1302
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:26,320
Yeah.

1303
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:27,320
Okay.

1304
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:28,320
Yeah.

1305
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,280
So that said, you're saying ECC was your favorite.

1306
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:33,800
You just don't want to say that.

1307
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:38,560
No, I only attended one talk in ATC by a normal team.

1308
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:45,320
They they had a privacy focus talk called size matters about the privacy side, the anonymity

1309
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,320
set and stuff.

1310
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:51,520
But one thing I've noticed is like a lot of the ETC talks have become more and more

1311
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,680
marketing rather than teaching anybody anything.

1312
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,240
So yeah, but they are really good.

1313
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,800
So it's like they had gelato right inside the venue.

1314
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,800
Oh, yeah.

1315
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:10,720
So even at ETH just meetups, there's a lot of shilling vaporware that will never get

1316
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:11,720
built.

1317
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:17,840
Whereas like, at least in Cosmos, like people generally stand up after they've built something,

1318
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:22,200
even if it might not be viable and it's Cosmos, so there's a good chance it's not viable because

1319
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:26,080
it's not Ethereum ironically.

1320
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,040
Imagine all like, okay, we shouldn't do this because it would be lame, but imagine if all

1321
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:35,240
the Cosmos builders who actually do ship stuff went and shipped non vaporware in another ecosystem,

1322
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:39,120
people would be like, wow, that particular group of people are really productive at shipping

1323
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:40,120
actual code.

1324
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,000
Maybe like, oh, yeah, they all used to work in Cosmos.

1325
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,240
They used to having to work for money.

1326
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:50,760
But then they would be forced to write solidity and get exploited.

1327
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:51,760
Fate worse than death.

1328
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:52,760
I know.

1329
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:53,760
I know.

1330
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:54,760
Yeah.

1331
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,600
So gelato ECC.

1332
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,040
So that's why it's your favorite.

1333
01:13:58,040 --> 01:13:59,040
Gotcha.

1334
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,040
Okay.

1335
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,680
So you can bribe Spoo.

1336
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,880
If you're a conference organizer listening to this podcast, you can bribe Spoo for her

1337
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:10,720
conference review blog, which obviously has many thousands of subscribers.

1338
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:17,120
I'm publishing a book on that coming down next week and this is my promo for the book.

1339
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:18,920
There you go.

1340
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:20,160
That's how you do it.

1341
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:24,880
So my like, there's not a lot of opportunity on this side of the planet to go to these

1342
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,400
bloody conferences.

1343
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:31,960
However, there is one in Korea soon for Korea Blockchain Week.

1344
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,160
Well, not really soon, but it's in a month or so.

1345
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:40,280
I was wanting to go to that one, but my partner vetoed it because we have to go walk across

1346
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,360
a fucking mountain for six days.

1347
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:47,240
So I think my only other opportunity is a bit later in the year again with Singapore.

1348
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,480
So maybe, maybe I'll get there.

1349
01:14:49,480 --> 01:14:52,600
Is that token, token 2049?

1350
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:53,600
Token 2049.

1351
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:54,600
Yes.

1352
01:14:54,600 --> 01:15:00,080
And anyone to the London one last year, but then I just thought it'd be like fucking

1353
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,760
layman for the FinTech people to say, I bend it off.

1354
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:09,680
And Artifact, who's of course the master of marketing, was like, you're a fucking idiot.

1355
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:10,680
You should have gone to that.

1356
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:11,680
It's on your doorstep.

1357
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:16,080
And then ended up going to a fucking FinTech conference this year anyway.

1358
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:17,600
So shows what I fucking know.

1359
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,240
So you should go to it in conclusion.

1360
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:25,840
I definitely will if the time slot suits and if the budget allows.

1361
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:27,040
So there you go.

1362
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:32,080
So if CC cover that one off, how was Nebula?

1363
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:33,880
How was Awesome Wasum?

1364
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:35,120
What do we miss?

1365
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:36,120
Make us jealous here.

1366
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:41,640
Well, Awesome Wasum, do you know about CWsCREP?

1367
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:43,880
That was like the most interesting part for me.

1368
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:50,080
So the Terran one team, they've built like a superset language, which compiles down to

1369
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:51,240
Rust Cosmism.

1370
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:57,120
So the typical counter contract is like 10 lines of code in CWscript.

1371
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,600
And you just compile it and it turns into the Rust code.

1372
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,920
And as a person who's not really into Rust, that sounds interesting.

1373
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,040
It's very easy to understand language.

1374
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,520
I think it's more like Rubyesque where it actually looks nice as well.

1375
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,520
It doesn't look complicated.

1376
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,640
So yeah, that was like the best thing.

1377
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:22,240
And I think in the last episode, you mentioned Ethan Brace, sabbatical.

1378
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,320
He mentioned that it was just from the end of the year.

1379
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,320
So he's going to be back next year.

1380
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:27,320
Oh, it's the end of the year.

1381
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:28,800
I thought it was just for the summer.

1382
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:30,920
He said to the end of the year.

1383
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:31,920
Wow.

1384
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:32,920
Okay.

1385
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,040
That's a long, I mean, I'm jealous.

1386
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:40,640
That face is more, I think he deserves it, but this is the face of somebody who's jealous

1387
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:42,600
of the sabbatical of that land.

1388
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:44,920
Bears hibernate in the winter, right?

1389
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:50,120
Yeah, I guess so.

1390
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:52,560
And what's Nebula?

1391
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:53,560
What's that about?

1392
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:58,120
I don't know if there's any team in Nebula, exactly.

1393
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:01,520
There was a nice talk on Evo's feature direction, Evo's 2.0.

1394
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,720
Apparently, they want to be more like a canary change Ethereum.

1395
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:09,320
They're going to implement the EIP rate quicker so people can test that out.

1396
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:11,320
How the fuck would that work?

1397
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:15,520
I mean, Ethereum is kind of slow with building out features, right?

1398
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:19,080
So Evo's wants to do it quicker.

1399
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:21,520
But it's completely different, right?

1400
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,640
No, I think stuff like the EVM stuff is...

1401
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:30,000
Well, the VM, I think what Spear is talking about is implementing VM level features ahead

1402
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:31,240
of Ethereum.

1403
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:37,520
So the features that Ethereum want to implement, they want to recreate into Evo's initially.

1404
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:40,800
I think they're just going to ship them before.

1405
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:45,920
So if they're not yet live beneath, they're going to be shipped ahead of time.

1406
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:51,200
I mean, what I mean is, is it directly compatible?

1407
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,320
Do they not have to rewrite it to suit?

1408
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:57,920
I think the whole point is you can cross deploy the contracts, right?

1409
01:17:57,920 --> 01:17:58,920
Yeah.

1410
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,640
Okay, if they contract based, yeah.

1411
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:05,840
But I mean, it's perhaps the thing of like, like, Evermorth's is an interesting idea.

1412
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:10,880
If they're shipped six months earlier, eight months earlier, then there'd have been maybe

1413
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,480
more likely to get like...

1414
01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:18,760
For one of that word, like a survivable level of traction, whereas...

1415
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:24,400
Well, I'd see that they have a USP anymore, really.

1416
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:29,000
Like being a bit faster than Ethereum, being substantially cheaper, fair enough.

1417
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,360
But that cuts both ways.

1418
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,960
Like Ethereum has deep liquidity and then VCs and all the other shit.

1419
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:35,360
Not that VCs are necessarily a good thing.

1420
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,600
I mean, I actually tend to think they're a super bad thing, but the reality is a lot

1421
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:42,720
of teams don't have a product that makes money for a long time.

1422
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:47,000
So they look to VCs and people to pay their salaries in the interim and like, you can

1423
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,200
do all of that stuff, you know, over and ETH.

1424
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,800
The gas fees and stuff are like just part of the other side of that equation.

1425
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,560
But without all that, then, you know, that's the value of the token, right?

1426
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:00,920
So it's all part of the economic system.

1427
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:05,280
Maybe a bit of a broken economic system, but at least it's like...

1428
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:10,960
So it seems to me then that like as far as the economics of the blockchain is concerned,

1429
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,680
I think they've probably concentrated on the wrong ecosystem.

1430
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,800
If they're compatible in both, like maybe they should have put some marketing power into

1431
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:23,480
the Ethereum area, you know, trying to sort of...

1432
01:19:23,480 --> 01:19:24,880
I think that's it to be fair.

1433
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:30,840
Like it's just that they kind of missed the end of the last bull, really, which is when

1434
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:32,720
you have the most eyeballs on you.

1435
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:36,360
But then I guess, you know, that still doesn't help when you're a year and a bit into a bear

1436
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:37,360
market, does it?

1437
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:38,360
Because you're still fucked.

1438
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:43,080
But I mean, when you think of ETHMOS, you don't really think Ethereum, do you?

1439
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:46,840
You still sort of consider it to be a Cosmos chain.

1440
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:47,840
Yeah.

1441
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:48,840
Yeah.

1442
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:54,240
Well, maybe that's just from our perspective being more involved in that particular ecosystem.

1443
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:56,400
I don't know if...

1444
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:01,640
Like I don't really have a perspective from an Ethereum ecosystem participant.

1445
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,080
Maybe they are known and popular.

1446
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:33,000
I don't know.