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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast from independent Valorantia teams.

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Hello everybody and welcome to the Game of Nodes, the Valorantia podcast.

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Today it is just the two of us so far.

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We're expecting additional member later on, the Frey, not sure where he is at the moment, seems to have 100% disappeared.

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Hence the name of this particular episode is MIA apparently.

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Right, so what we have planned today, Shilty, not much, just regular chats.

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Wait, hold on a second. Are we not doing the news?

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Well, we are doing the news except I haven't prepared any news because it's been an incredibly busy week for me.

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However, I did this morning get up nice and early, attach my phone to my monitor for the webcam,

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seen as though I'm back at my other office which has no camera facilities here right now.

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So actually I'm still sort of like part way through attaching it to my monitor so I'm trying not to cut myself while we're talking.

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Was that electrical tape?

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Yeah, it's like gaffer tape.

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I'm just trying to make sure this doesn't fall down because it's like, yeah.

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Well, like the monitor's hot so I'm fully anticipating that this tape's going to get warm and then the whole shit is just going to fall off my monitor at some point.

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Or even better, since it's electrical tape, that's intended to melt when it gets warm.

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So you might just melt it onto your monitor.

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I don't think it's going to get that warm.

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Hopefully not, Jesus Christ.

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So my situation is that the Apple in all of their wisdom has created this thing where you can use your iPhone as a webcam for your MacBook.

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And I have to say it is pretty handy in a pinch, except there are no available brackets for you to be able to buy.

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Well, there is at the Apple store, but they only attach to the other Apple products like the Pro monitor and the MacBooks and stuff.

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So kind of up shit creek in that regard.

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So my solution is when I need to use it, I just carry around with me in my bag some tape.

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It's really cool though, like when you move and it rotates with you, that's such a cool effect.

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I remember the first time I saw that at work and someone did that, they're like making breakfast or something during our stand up and the camera moved and I was like, oh my God, what kind of setup does he have?

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He's like, no, this is just my iPad or something.

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And I was like, this is the future.

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The future is now.

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It's right now.

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Oh, you can do it with an iPad as well.

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Yeah, you can do it as well.

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Could you imagine taping that shit to your monitor?

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Well, he would just have it sitting on its stand.

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So who'd get the full no shot going?

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The what?

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The no shots.

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Yeah, cause it would be like aiming up because he'd be standing and then be looking up his nose.

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Yeah, right.

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Okay, so I did manage to funnel out a little bit of news.

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Look, I don't think it's exciting news.

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It's been like, I've had a busy ass week, but I don't think I've really done much.

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And I think as far as the eco goes, I don't think there's been too much going on this week.

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I mean, today was the stride joining the atom economics on that's pretty exciting just by itself.

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So that was on my list.

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Now you're a Cosmos hub validator, right?

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Yeah.

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So you will be, well, you did have to do the stride upgrade this morning.

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James did it.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah, I mean, all things considered, it went quite well.

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It took a little bit of time to get everyone actually up and signing as it always takes for upgrades.

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I remember correctly, it was like, that a part of an hour for everyone to actually get precommittee and stuff.

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But for such a complicated thing, like in order to actually get signing, you had to have actually stride note fully synced.

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You had to like, there's another genesis file basically that you needed to add.

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There was a lot of overhead for it.

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So I think within the context of the difficulty, they did really well.

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The stride team always kills it.

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So that's not surprising.

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Yeah.

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I think I'm pretty impressed with those devs there over the last three to six months of like, I'm not on stride, but I'm always hearing that they're sort of killing it when they do the upgrades and even their, you know, general development features, that type of stuff.

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So yeah, I don't know if I'm like, I don't know if I'm fully like on board with going to ICS, like they seem like they probably could have been a decent thing on their own, but I totally understand it as well.

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I don't really see a lot of benefit in it either.

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I still have a hard time conceptualizing what the merit of a token is whenever you're using like ICS.

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Like why even have a stride token at that point?

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Yeah, tend to agree.

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So how, like what happens with the existing validators and delegations when you change over to ICS?

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I'm pretty ignorant on ICS.

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I haven't like really taken it much time to learn about it.

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I wasn't in the test nets and stuff because I'm not a Cosmos hub validator.

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So explain to me if you will a little bit about how that mechanism works when they change over.

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Yeah.

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So the way it works is kind of strange.

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You become what are called governors.

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Some people call it governators, but I think that that's considered.

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Those gubernators in the chat.

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Yeah, yeah, governators.

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So basically the stakes still stays with where they were staking before.

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So nothing changes there.

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And then what that effectively means is that you are voting like you're basically using the voting power of.

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The people that were delegated to you.

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So the validators just become gubernators.

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That's exactly right.

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Yeah.

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And so purpose now is.

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But they no longer have to run hardware.

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And the only thing they do is vote.

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Is that so?

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I mean, if they're Cosmos hub validator, obviously they'd still have to run hardware, I guess.

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But in terms of like the actual like, you know, function of the of the gubernator, like can anyone be a gubernator or.

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That's a really good question that I don't know the answer to James says gubs don't need to run nodes.

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Okay, so I guess I don't really understand how you would delegate to them really then because I mean the question came out today, you know, as soon as I see us when as soon as we went through.

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I was like, should I pull my commissions beforehand, because technically you're not a validator there anymore, right you're validator for Cosmos sub, which it was fine.

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Like I ran my withdrawal commissions just to see what would happen and it worked.

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But there are a lot of unanswered questions like that.

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That I think.

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Go ahead.

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Do do do like gubernators get a commission on their stake.

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I think so.

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Let me let me run my withdraw again and see if it pulls out more tokens.

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It should right like I can thin.

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Well, I mean, maybe it should only if you make a vote or not.

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I mean, I don't know.

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I think it's really weird.

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I kind of like on the one hand, I appreciate that the validators that worked hard to be at the top of the set for stride earlier, like they maintaining their delegation so they continue to be rewarded for lack of better term for that for that hard work.

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But also it's such a strange system to me.

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And it doesn't match up with anything else right like nothing else has governators now suddenly there's this concept of gubernators in the cosmos.

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Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing that like it's it's ironic that that's the thing that validators hate most about the cosmos is having to vote on shit.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so I still can withdraw commissions.

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But interestingly, it didn't come with any like staked atom or staked at most or anything like that.

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It just came with the normal stride commissions.

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That's really interesting.

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Maybe all that shit now just goes to the atom validators.

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It was supposed to be 15%.

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So whenever I did it earlier, I think because I had some like in the tank already, it did come with the staked atom and the staked, you know, Osmo, Luna, whatever.

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But this isn't so so the hub has to take on all of the responsibility of validating and providing arguably like way more security for 15%.

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15%.

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Yeah.

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And yeah, to add insult to injury.

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That's 15% of, I think, 0.5% now, because stride reduced their commissions, it used to be 10%. But with the last upgrade, they reduced it.

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And so now it's even even less of a portion.

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Now, to me, I have to say, man, that's a fucking stitch up.

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It is.

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It is.

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And I don't know the whole Adam economic zone thing kind of weirds me out, because if someone wants to join as a new cosmos validator, suddenly they need to run, you know, a multitude of nodes, which is a huge part of the process.

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And so it's a multitude of nodes, which, okay, you have to do that for axar as well.

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But for axar, my understanding is you don't get slashed if you're not running, you know, an Avax node.

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Like you're supposed to, but you don't have to.

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Where for cosmos like, you have to, that's really interesting to me.

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That's really interesting how I don't want to say regressive, but it kind of regressive it is for for the new validators that want to join in.

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So sorry, you're saying, sorry, I was just retweeting the, the fucking thing for the episode, because we didn't put one out.

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But anyway, so I just caught the last bit of that.

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So what you're saying is that if you want to end like say you buy yourself into the cosmos, or they expand the set or whatever, the people at the bottom have to run.

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Is that what you just said?

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Yeah.

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Oh my God.

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So you're saying the cosmos that right now you have to run neutron and stride and soon duality.

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Neutron was, didn't they have the bottom 5% or 10% or something didn't need to run?

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Yeah, you're correct.

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But the kind of the point still stands like, okay, technically they don't.

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But also, like if you're joining as a new validator, are you going to risk that?

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Like, where's that information for you to find?

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Is there going to be a table in the cosmos, you know, node set up that says, okay, so if you're in the bottom 5%, just don't run this.

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No, they're going to set up every single one because they're going to be like, well, there aren't different requirements that that requirement is set by each chain and there's no standard for it.

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So, you know, I don't buy that.

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Do you think that like, really this is raising the barrier to entry to, to validate on the cosmos hub now?

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Yeah, without a doubt, has literally three times the hardware requirements now.

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And if not more times, yeah, two or four times.

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Yeah.

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I mean, to be fair, like, I don't know about neutron, but stride presumably is a reasonably light chain.

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But neutron being a general wasm chain, right?

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Is it permissionless?

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It'll no doubt get pretty heavy if it gets used.

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Yeah, it is permissionless.

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Yeah, that is like the problem about.

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So one of the things with permissionless cause and wasm is that, you know, there's no one like, there's no gatekeepers to those contracts.

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And if they're like, terribly inefficient and huge, they can still go up to just expensive to use and they just fucking hard on the hardware.

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And especially if they're like, ultra inefficient, you know, can affect block times and all kinds of shit.

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So that'll be interesting.

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I think that's a really interesting part of like, go ahead.

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The funny part is, is that sorry, I just had a thought.

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The funny part is, is that I'm sure Adam validators are very used to getting away with like, you know, a Raspberry Pi because, well, like the hub is probably one of the lightest chains in the ecosystem because it doesn't do anything.

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Yeah, it secures value.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it also causes consensus, right, and do transactions.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah, that is probably the lightest chain in the whole ecosystem.

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And now they're like, having to run all this other stuff.

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I think it'll be a shock when, you know, neutron gets busy and everyone's like Jesus Christ.

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I have to like, get decent hardware now.

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Mm hmm.

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I've actually been impressed by the engagement of the validators on the Cosmos Hub.

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In previous upgrades, let's say a year ago, an upgrade would take like up to two hours because it just took people so long, validators so long to get engaged.

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And that's what the month long voting period, right?

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Oh, yeah.

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It's terrible.

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Yeah.

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Whereas so far the ICS chains have just gone up.

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Like, yeah, we have some people that aren't signing immediately, fine, whatever.

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But all in all, like things are moving.

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Like even, I think that even Coinbase was one of the first ones that started signing.

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Like they might have even pre-signed this one.

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Yeah, because they were like, you know, those like those like sex based validators were always like absent previously, right?

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They would always be late to the party because, you know, it's not between nine to five or whatever.

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Oh yeah, they killed it.

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So Coinbase is up, Kraken's up, Binance is up.

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SG1, the number two validator in the Cosmos is not up.

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Multi-chain is not up.

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Ledger is not up.

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Wait, Ledger doesn't know Stiklab doesn't run, Figment runs Ledger, right?

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No fucking clue.

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I think it's Figment.

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So that is funny.

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But they are up.

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Figment's up.

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But interesting.

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I think it's really interesting.

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So it doesn't seem like too much of a burden on the big boys, but it definitely seems like a burden on anyone lower in that set.

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Because I imagine even, even though like Adam's probably the most economical of all the chains, well, it is.

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And even though they still have like quite a few validators in the set, right?

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So I'd imagine those validators at the bottom are probably still just barely profitable as it is.

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They, I think they're still quite profitable.

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So the bottom one has, well, maybe not has 45,000 Adam on them, which means what is that?

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That's like 50 Adam per month or so.

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Give or take, which, well, they're also running a 1%.

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So 10 Adam per month.

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You do that in your head.

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So say they were, say they were at 5%.

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I'd say the bottom is about 50,000.

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Yeah.

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So just the commission per year is like, say 15%.

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I mean, like the APR.

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Yeah.

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I think it's like 19%.

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It's on its way down there.

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Yeah, you're probably right.

220
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Oh, let's just say 19 if it's 19.

221
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000
Yeah.

222
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000
So let's say they're at 5%.

223
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:11,000
It's 475 Adam a year, which is about 40.

224
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:17,000
About 40 a month, which is 350 bucks.

225
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,000
Fuck this.

226
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,000
Not too bad.

227
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,000
Why did I never get into Adam?

228
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,000
Well, I mean, the buy-in right now is still, you know, 450,000 dollars.

229
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Not 5 million.

230
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Oh, sorry.

231
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,000
500,000.

232
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,000
Yeah.

233
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,000
Well, if you look at the set though, most of the people not signing are at the bottom.

234
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,000
So there's got to be something to say about how low you are on the set to like how you

235
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,000
can handle that increase in cost, both the top almost everyone signing.

236
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,000
Well, it also might be that, you know, I think like engagement sort of goes to shit when

237
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:55,000
you're not really making like when it's not, when there's no big economic incentive, like

238
00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:03,000
engagement can go to shit, you know, it's like, you know, I'm going like a lot of those

239
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,000
smaller operators would all be single person operators, right?

240
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:13,000
And it might come down to, you know, I'm going to go to dinner with the wife or fucking do

241
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,000
this stride upgrade that I've technically got half a day to do.

242
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:22,000
So I'm going to go to dinner with the wife, drink some piss, take it easy, come back and

243
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:27,000
slap an upgrade in when it suits me rather than like, you know, being one of the top

244
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,000
guys expected to perform, but getting paid very good money to do it.

245
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,000
Yeah, I can see it.

246
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,000
Yeah.

247
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,000
It's interesting.

248
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,000
I mean, I don't know.

249
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,000
I'm not a economics guy.

250
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,000
I don't really know that stuff super well, but well, I mean, it's what I mean is that

251
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000
your own like, if you're getting paid, say you work at Taco Bell, right?

252
00:17:50,000 --> 00:18:00,000
And there's one guy getting paid $5 a day and another guy getting paid $700 a day for

253
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,000
the same job, right?

254
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,000
All you have to do is keep showing up and doing the work.

255
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,000
The guy who's getting $5 a day might be like, you know, I don't really want to go to work

256
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,000
today.

257
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:16,000
If I get fired or done matter, I can get another $5 job somewhere, but the guy who's getting

258
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,000
$700 a day to do the same job might be like, well, I don't really want to go to work today,

259
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,000
but I'm getting paid $700 a day to fucking just show up and, you know, flip burgers or

260
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000
whatever.

261
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,000
So I'm going to go.

262
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,000
You know what I mean?

263
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,000
Oh yeah, I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.

264
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,000
Yeah.

265
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,000
I mean, I just like, I meant more in the global scope of the Adam economic zone, right?

266
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,000
Like, when does it start kind of rolling over where it's more cumbersome than it is beneficial,

267
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,000
right?

268
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:47,000
Like Stride is now setting the pace for, hey, we are now going to, you know, become of the

269
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,000
outcome.

270
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,000
I mean, what if Gravity Bridge decides to do the same, right?

271
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,000
First of all, that'd be really funny since they were funded by Adam.

272
00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:00,000
But when, when does the snowball like go too far, I guess?

273
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,000
When do they take on enough junk that people start to get pissed off?

274
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,000
Yeah.

275
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000
Yeah.

276
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Cause it's definitely going to end up like that because they take like Stride 5% and

277
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000
then 15%.

278
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,000
So hang on, if I were to do some math again, need to calculate it though.

279
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,000
So 15 times, sorry, 0.15 times 0.05.

280
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:33,000
So they're literally getting like, that can't be right.

281
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:39,000
Oh, cause the state, well, the stake is, no, what'd you say is, you said it was 5% right

282
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,000
that the, that the current APR is.

283
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,000
Yeah.

284
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,000
So, so 15% of fire, it's less than 1%.

285
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000
It's 0.75%.

286
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,000
Yeah.

287
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000
Of like APR.

288
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Like what's the fucking point?

289
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,000
I mean, that's the thing, right?

290
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,000
That, and for neutron, I don't think, are we even getting rewards?

291
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000
Let me check.

292
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:12,000
Like, why wouldn't you be paying 75% of your inflation because it's your, it's your security.

293
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,000
Like they're getting security for free.

294
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,000
For free.

295
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,000
Yeah.

296
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:24,000
But the funny thing is, is that it's not, it doesn't make any less, like, like it's,

297
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,000
it's no, it's no less resources or anything.

298
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000
Like there's still all those validators out there have to run it.

299
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
And now they're just running it for free.

300
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Yeah.

301
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,000
Jesus.

302
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,000
And it's, yeah.

303
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,000
And Rama says, why would you own stride token?

304
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Because it's like, yeah, what's the point now?

305
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,000
Why do you even want that?

306
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Is it, is it now a shit coin?

307
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000
That's what I was saying earlier, right?

308
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
Like, yeah, exactly.

309
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000
It may complete sense whenever stride has its own token.

310
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,000
Now I think it still does make sense because if you stake your stride, you're getting

311
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:01,000
far more in returns than like you're still gaining value from having it because you,

312
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,000
in theory, are still getting like your stake to admin stuff, right?

313
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,000
Like that's, that's how it kind of feeds back in.

314
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,000
What is the actual purpose of the stride token now though?

315
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,000
Like other than so you can stake it.

316
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,000
So my vision of what it was, and this being someone who has bought quite a bit of it,

317
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:23,000
was that it's almost like an atom ETF where like you buy stride and you stake it.

318
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:29,000
And by doing that, you are effectively getting dividends in all the tokens that use stride,

319
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,000
right?

320
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:40,000
So if you look at like my stride address so far, I've gained 22 Adam, 54 Osmo, seven

321
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:49,000
Staked Luna, 300 stars, 10 Juno, 100 Umi, one Staked Injective, 110 Staked Edmos, and

322
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000
nine Staked Comdex, right?

323
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Like that's not insignificant.

324
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,000
Okay.

325
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,000
So it's kind of like, you know, Koogee when you, when you have Koogee staked and you

326
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,000
just get this grab bag of shit.

327
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,000
Yes.

328
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,000
Yeah.

329
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,000
Which is a really, which is really compelling to me.

330
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000
I think for me, I find that really exciting.

331
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,000
I think that that.

332
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,000
That makes me never want to claim my fucking rewards.

333
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,000
Yeah.

334
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,000
For Koogee.

335
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,000
Yeah.

336
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,000
That's a lot of taxable events.

337
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
Yeah.

338
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,000
You just get exploded with this whole bag of shit.

339
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,000
And it's like, God, can I just claim the Koogee in the USK?

340
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Yeah.

341
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:30,000
But now I have a hard time with like what the value at it is.

342
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,000
Which is unfortunate.

343
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,000
So what's little days?

344
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000
I'm going to look at the comments here.

345
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,000
So Gizje's van.

346
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Sorry for butchering your name.

347
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Hi.

348
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,000
It's lower, like half a percent odd.

349
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000
Is that right?

350
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000
I think that is right.

351
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,000
No, I think that's, I think it's a fraction of a fraction.

352
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,000
That's the right fraction, but I don't think it's 0.005%.

353
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000
I think it's 0.5%.

354
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,000
Well, so.

355
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,000
0.75%.

356
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,000
So we need to get the fraction.

357
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000
If you times 0.15 by 0.05, right?

358
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,000
Which are the fractions you end up with 0.0075, but that's not percent.

359
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,000
That's a fraction.

360
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,000
So it's 0.75% times by 100.

361
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,000
So I think that we, he's, so the way straight does is weird, right?

362
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:21,000
So the way you're earning that, that yield is through stride takes a 5% cut from the

363
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000
stake Adam, right?

364
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,000
From your yields from that, right?

365
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000
So that's just from stride.

366
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,000
And then as a validator, then you are distributed that difference.

367
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000
So like, it's like 0.05% again.

368
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,000
Yes.

369
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,000
0.05 again.

370
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000
Yes, exactly.

371
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,000
That, I think that's what the point he's coming to is that like it really reduces.

372
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,000
And so like the point is 0.15 is that's after you take into the calculations of, oh, strides

373
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:50,000
only getting 0.5% of yield versus 0.5% of the validator commission versus 0.15% for, or

374
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000
15% for cost of validators.

375
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,000
It's 0.0375%.

376
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,000
That is fucking stupid.

377
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Yeah.

378
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Yeah.

379
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000
It's 0.0375%.

380
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Yeah.

381
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Yeah.

382
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Anyone do the math on that before they voted?

383
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,000
Yes.

384
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,000
Like it's the validators that vote, right?

385
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Yeah.

386
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000
I wonder if I put that in the proposal if anyone would have voted for it.

387
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,000
They'd be like, fuck no.

388
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,000
Well, and this is another thing, right?

389
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,000
That they didn't announce, they didn't say in the proposal that the commission was actually

390
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,000
going to be reduced in the same proposal if they were joining ICS.

391
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,000
So a lot of us voted yes.

392
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,000
And then after it went through, they're like, oh yeah, also this is a 50% reduction.

393
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,000
And I was like, okay, great.

394
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000
I mean, like two times fuck all still fuck all, right?

395
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Well, it was pretty good before, like not for Cosmos, but for like Stride validators.

396
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000
It wasn't amazing.

397
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,000
Like we didn't get amazing yield, but I still think it was a really compelling case.

398
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,000
I think Stride was one of the, was one of the better app chain stories, right?

399
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,000
And now it going to Cosmos, like then why wasn't it just on Cosmos?

400
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Like, why are we now creating it into a separate chain rather than it, why are people just not

401
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000
building on the Cosmos hub, right?

402
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,000
That teams can then get tokens that they can sell and make money, so fund the development

403
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000
is just, ah.

404
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:05,000
So I would say that this is good for stakers, but not good for validators.

405
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:13,000
The reason I say that is because, well, actually not even so much stakers, this is good for

406
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000
big bag holders.

407
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,000
And the reason I say that is because the inflation now is very low.

408
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,000
So there's not a massive incentive for the thing to pump.

409
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:30,000
However, over the longer term, like people are going to want to use it, I suppose, for

410
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,000
the Stride's features, right?

411
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000
But you're not going to have this constant dumping of rewards.

412
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:41,000
So I think over time, it's at least going to steady the price a lot or even potentially

413
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000
increase it.

414
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000
We're not giving financial advice here and I'm a peanut, so don't go buy Stride just

415
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,000
because I said that.

416
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,000
But on the validator side of things, it is a fucking bad deal, especially for the Cosmos.

417
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000
Especially for the Cosmos of validators.

418
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Yeah.

419
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,000
I mean, it's doubly true for neutron.

420
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:01,000
For neutron, if I'm remembering correctly, and I may not be, so don't hold me to this.

421
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
I'm pretty sure it was also like region gated.

422
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:09,000
So their value add was like, hey, like you as a validator, we're going to give you this

423
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,000
initial airdrop for running neutron and then there's not going to be any inflation.

424
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
You're running it, you're not getting any rewards for it.

425
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000
And I don't think I got to claim any neutron.

426
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,000
Like, okay, so we're running it and we literally have no rewards for doing this.

427
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,000
We're literally just paying extra to run this.

428
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
That's not very cool.

429
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,000
That's super not Raven.

430
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:38,000
It's seriously going to be like, like we were saying before, it's going to be a lot more

431
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,000
to run than the hub.

432
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:46,000
And these like, I have to wonder, like the atom validators are probably very used to

433
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000
not doing upgrades and maintenance as well.

434
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:57,000
And these being newish chains with features, I could imagine are going to have a lot more

435
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:02,000
burden in that respect as well in upgrades and attention.

436
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,000
You know what, I actually didn't even think about that aspect of it.

437
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,000
Yeah, like it's suddenly just an order of magnitude.

438
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:15,000
Well, not literally since there's not 10 chains yet, but it's suddenly like the amount of upkeep

439
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000
each one has just gets significantly more difficult.

440
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:24,000
I guess if any of the Cosmos hub validators watch this particular podcast, they're now going to say

441
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000
suddenly, fuck.

442
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,000
Oh, there's poor bastards.

443
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,000
Yeah, I mean, sure it gets, yeah, I mean, it gets more value for Adam, I suppose, in a sense,

444
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,000
in that it's, Adam's now, Adam now has a use case.

445
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,000
But like, I just want to know why, why would stride have like, in my mind, this is like,

446
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,000
it wasn't a wise choice.

447
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
What did, what did they get paid?

448
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000
What did they do?

449
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:54,000
Like, what kind of deal was struck such that stride decided it was a good idea to go ICS,

450
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,000
especially whenever the set was really stable, like it was reliable.

451
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:04,000
I don't think there is any fear of like an attack, like where they needed that market cap.

452
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,000
Like, it feels to me like he was doing really well.

453
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000
So what was the deal struck that made them do that?

454
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,000
That's a really cynical take.

455
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,000
And I'll take that cynicism.

456
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000
But what happened?

457
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000
I think you're right.

458
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,000
I think stride was doing just fine on its own.

459
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:25,000
It wasn't like, it wasn't at a point where there was a security issue.

460
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:45,000
So, you know, and that's to me like, resorting to the hub for security is something you would do if you were a new chain and wanting to go that route or having a security issue because your token price has gone to shit and it's highly distributed or can be bought up.

461
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,000
You know what I mean?

462
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,000
That's what made me think of Gravity Bridge, which I mean nothing bad about Gravity Bridge.

463
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:56,000
In my opinion, they are criminally underpriced in comparison to like Axolar.

464
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Like Gravity Bridge actually has a lot of usage and yet their price is a hundredth of Axolar.

465
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,000
To me, it doesn't make any sense.

466
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:10,000
But that's why I brought them up because like their price to value ratio is completely out of whack.

467
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,000
So it would almost make sense for them.

468
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:35,000
It gets scary when there's a lot of TVL on a chain and their market cap doesn't reflect that, which gets scary when you start looking at it and you go, well, if someone was doing the slow burn here and just buying these up slowly, slowly, there's every chance that at some point they could under the radar get enough token to actually do some damage to this chain.

469
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:45,000
And at some point, you know, you can't even, you can't, it's irreversible because they've got enough voting power to make sure it doesn't go to, you know, an ICS chain or something like that.

470
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:54,000
But well, Gravity Bridge, the TVL is something like 10% of, excuse me, the TVL is I think 10X what their market cap is.

471
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Yeah, that's pretty dangerous.

472
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Yeah.

473
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,000
Yeah.

474
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:15,000
So again, like I can see the value in chains like, you know, the, what's the one called that has Circle, USDC, I always get it in Neutron mixed up Neuron.

475
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,000
Neutron?

476
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Neutron?

477
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Which we're talking about.

478
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:28,000
The one that's having the stable coin USDC, it's not Neutron, isn't Neutron the ICS wasm chain?

479
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Yeah.

480
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,000
Yeah.

481
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Which one's getting Circle?

482
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,000
The one with Yelena?

483
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Oh, Noble.

484
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,000
Noble's getting Circle.

485
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Noble, yeah, yeah, Noble.

486
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,000
So Noble's getting the USDC.

487
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,000
So I could see like why you would want it as an ICS chain, but it is just a private chain anyway, basically.

488
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:53,000
The validators on there all have the same stake, they're just, I don't think that'll ever be, well, you know, I don't know.

489
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,000
They are intending, they are intending to change it to do token launch and stuff.

490
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,000
So while that's true now, yeah, it's not permanently true.

491
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:13,000
I always kind of just assumed that that chain would be strictly controlled by the foundation and that there'd be like just a separate staking token so that they could control who is in the set.

492
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,000
That's what I kind of assumed as well.

493
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,000
But from what I've heard, that's not true.

494
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:30,000
Like they just had a $20 million valuation token sale recently in order to like get their tokens into start actually staking and stuff.

495
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Is that chain, is it sole purpose for USDC?

496
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,000
That's my understanding, yeah, to be a vehicle for USDC.

497
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:42,000
So I mean, why, like why even have a staking token and sell it?

498
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,000
It makes no sense to me.

499
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,000
You would think that the token would be USDC in that, but you don't want it to be inflationary.

500
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:59,000
I thought you would just pay your validators and have the ones that you want that are reliable and then just have it as USDC for IBC.

501
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,000
I mean, that's kind of a existential question, right?

502
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,000
Like, why are a lot of these chains on blockchain?

503
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,000
Like, why are there validators?

504
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,000
If you have a bunch of validators with one stake, therefore they all have 10% vote, like, does it matter?

505
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,000
No, it really kind of doesn't.

506
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,000
Why are you on blockchain?

507
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Well, I mean, in this instance, you would want to be, it makes sense to me for circle because you would want that blockchain just for the IBC functionality, right?

508
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:37,000
So you want to be able to say that these are, you know, USDC that are native to the ecosystem.

509
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:48,000
We might run the thing like, and this is, I guess, not the case, but, you know, if they were completely just running it with selected validators the way they want it, I don't see a problem with that.

510
00:32:48,000 --> 00:33:03,000
I mean, it's a little bit more decentralized in terms of fault tolerance and not being run entirely by, you know, circle having 20 validators run by themselves by the same DevOps team.

511
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:09,000
So it's a little bit more reliable in that sense, I think, but you still have the control over it that you want.

512
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:17,000
And I think you should, because of the economic value of bringing, like, there could be a billion dollars in USDC.

513
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:29,000
I would absolutely want to control that fucking chain and not have any risk of it being like, they did a $20 million valuation, you say, is that a valuation or they sold $20 million?

514
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000
That was a valuation. They did a token sale at a $20 million valuation.

515
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,000
Okay, so you've got a $20 million valuation and potentially a billion dollars worth of tokens come across.

516
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:48,000
Yes, so naturally people were like, yeah, I'll buy in like a Barrett chain. Barrett chain has a $690 million valuation if I remember correctly.

517
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:55,000
And it's not to make a lot of EVM chains because I've gone on record on Game of Nose many times being in favor of Evmos.

518
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,000
It's just an EVM chain, right? $690 million seems like a lot.

519
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Well, I mean, say where I think they lost valuation was like $800 million or something, right?

520
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,000
But they're not just another EVM chain, right? Like, they're pushing the envelope in a lot of ways.

521
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,000
They are, yeah.

522
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,000
They're going faster. I think they're doing a lot of really cool things.

523
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:24,000
Grant, I guess you can say the same thing about Barrett chain. I don't know about Barrett chain, but $690 just seems outrageous in this market, right?

524
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Like you're saying that in the next bull market, they're going to be at $7 billion when they launch? I don't know.

525
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000
It seems outrageous when the functionality already exists.

526
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,000
Yeah. I mean, maybe that's a better way to put it, right?

527
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:48,000
So let's see. If there are $700 million valuation, that puts them at around the level of injective or phantom in terms of market cap, that is.

528
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000
An injective's EVM, right?

529
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:58,000
Yes, it is. It's heavily, heavily modified just as Barrett chain will be, but it is EVM, yeah.

530
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:05,000
And I don't know. The only thing I've seen from it right now is that it has like sick memes, right?

531
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Which it's like has big DJ energy.

532
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,000
Yeah. I mean, that works for some people.

533
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,000
Yeah.

534
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
Yeah.

535
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,000
Oh man, in other news, it's fucking cold here at the moment.

536
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,000
Nice frost this morning. I've just come back to like, Temworth for a little bit.

537
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:33,000
And I was going through throwing out some old shit from the shed that I've been told I need to organize and clean up and throw stuff away.

538
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,000
And I found all these old jumpers.

539
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,000
This hoodie I bought when I was 14.

540
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,000
I need a better look of it then. You got to stand up.

541
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,000
Like, I just got to have some crazy graphic on it. That just is really embarrassing.

542
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:56,000
No, it's so there's an old skate brand in Australia called Juice Clothing, but it's like an extra large or 2 XL or something.

543
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:05,000
It's huge. So you could imagine like 14 year old Null walking around the streets in this thing and it would have just been like a garbage bag draped over him.

544
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Yeah.

545
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,000
Well, I wore a trench coat when I was 14. It makes me feel any better.

546
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,000
Yeah, never seen that logo before. Almost like the Quicksilver logo.

547
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,000
I can stand far enough back for it to lie.

548
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000
No, yeah, I can see it for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

549
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000
But it's huge and I love it.

550
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:28,000
So I'm going to be wearing this again. It's back in rotation.

551
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:40,000
Actually, you know, this is completely unrelated to the to the potty, but I lost this other hooded jacket and I've been looking for it for two years and it was in this bag of shit.

552
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Yeah, just talk amongst yourself if you will talk to myself.

553
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,000
Yeah, for just 30 seconds. I'll go chuck this thing on you. I love it.

554
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Okay.

555
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,000
Well, I guess I will talk amongst myself.

556
00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:00,000
And so I live in Portland. Portland is not cold. Portland has been going through a what's called a heat dome.

557
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,000
And so it's been over 90 for the last, I think, three weeks.

558
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,000
That's a great one.

559
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:13,000
Yeah, I've had friends that had that one or looked similar to that where it's like, is it the kind of cake that tweed feel?

560
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Yeah, it's like really it's it's pretty thick and and just like just a nice material and it's my partner calls it my hobo jacket.

561
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,000
And I had actually thought that she threw it away on the sly.

562
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:33,000
But no, I found it gave it a wash and it's good as new. Feels great. Can't wait to wear it around Melbourne.

563
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:40,000
That is like that takes me back to high school where like all the stone would wear a jacket look just like that.

564
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:51,000
Yeah, 100%. But it's a man, it's just like, I reckon it's the logo there. It's like it has a male and female sign intertwined.

565
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's like the they're like joined up, I suppose.

566
00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,000
Oh, God, the camera keeps going high.

567
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000
But I don't know, kind of makes me it hides my my fat as well. So it kind of makes me look a little bit better.

568
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Right.

569
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:18,000
All right, so I did have like that wasn't my only news. The the story starts 42 minutes on on news item one.

570
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Okay, here we go.

571
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:25,000
Thank God we haven't had the phrase banner running along the bottom.

572
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:40,000
That's cool. Yeah, so I mean, like my notes were pretty skint on that as well, by the way, they they my notes consisted of stride on Cosmos Hub, the second consumer chain to use.

573
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:48,000
No issues reported on the transition will now most likely have a shiny mint scan banner.

574
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Well, so for mincecam, what's interesting right now is that they actually don't show the governators first right.

575
00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:00,000
So for neutron, the way they show their validators is oh, they don't know they do show validators.

576
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Okay, so they're my first right and neutron they showed the same but for stride since they have this concept of governators.

577
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,000
It's, I don't know, I want that to pop up and show because right now I.

578
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:17,000
Oh, they so they've already got the ICS little cheerleader banner, but they're not at the top right.

579
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:23,000
Yeah, that's that was immediately what I noticed they weren't shoved up the top there so.

580
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:29,000
I mean, what does that mean? Is that is that mincecam trying to flex some other shit on them?

581
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,000
That implies a certain level of coordination that I'm not confident in.

582
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:39,000
I feel like everything mincecam does mean something like in the background.

583
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:46,000
There's there's some, you know, there's some deals being done every time something happens on mincecam.

584
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,000
I feel like.

585
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,000
I don't know, like I'm still in the minority with saying like.

586
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,000
Mints can kind of defines.

587
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:05,000
What a tender man or cosmos chain is at this point. Yeah, you can show up on ping dot pub, but nobody knows how to find you if you're on there and peanut pub.

588
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,000
I absolutely love peanut, peanut pub. Absolutely love peanut pub.

589
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:15,000
But like conto they don't consider it so it cosmos chain however they're on peanut pub.

590
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Right, they have IBC enabled.

591
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:22,000
They're not on mincecam. Wait, they are on mincecam. Never mind. I take that back. I don't know.

592
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,000
There are some chains that are actually doing fine economically that aren't on mincecam.

593
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,000
And I think that they do fine because they're not on mincecam.

594
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,000
Ooh, that's an interesting take. What what chains are you thinking of?

595
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,000
I don't want to I don't want to mention it because I don't want to draw attention to.

596
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,000
Now, I mean, you're on firm a chain, right? It does fine.

597
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:50,000
It does fine. It's in the Korean market and it's not on mincecam and it does just fine.

598
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,000
That's actually a really good point. It like it's very market dependent.

599
00:40:54,000 --> 00:41:06,000
So we are also on aura, which I don't believe is on mincecam. It is not and they are in I think the Korean market as well and they're doing just fine as well.

600
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:16,000
So I think they mainly sort of, you know, because they market to their own market, right? And then I don't think they particularly give too much of a shit about the rest of it.

601
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:30,000
And the for Korean based chains, there are some very strict rules in Korea around KYC for operations on on the chains.

602
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:41,000
So I believe that firmer chain haven't put it on Osmosis or anything like that themselves because of the Korean requirements by the government.

603
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:51,000
So I don't think they know how to tackle that or care. So why would that stop them from putting it on Osmosis, but it's on a bunch of other exchanges?

604
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,000
It's only on sexes as far as I know. Yeah. Yeah.

605
00:41:54,000 --> 00:42:02,000
Yeah. So why would the customers, the customers on sex chains are KYC'd.

606
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,000
Okay. I'm picking up what you're putting down now. All right.

607
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:11,000
Yeah. Whereas like, you know, the dex is just open slather to anyone.

608
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:25,000
What else did I have? So Lovanna launched this week on Osmosis. And the reason I know this is because I got temporarily addicted to it.

609
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:32,000
Weren't they originally like in an exclusivity clause with Juno following terrorist demise?

610
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:49,000
I do not know about that. I don't know if they had any growth funds stuff, but I mean, it makes no sense for them to just do Juno stuff because the Juno ecosystem is struggling and there's still a company that needs to make money.

611
00:42:49,000 --> 00:43:03,000
I don't know what the scope of stuff that they were delivering on Juno was either. From memory, it was something more around NFTs. I don't know if it had, if it was their perp's product.

612
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:09,000
Wait, they don't do it. I just thought they just did like dragon NFTs. They do more than that?

613
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:19,000
No, so there are perpetuals on Osmosis now. So like leveraged trading.

614
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:28,000
Oh, I don't know. Osmosis needed that. Now for me, mind you, I'm way too risk averse for that, which I say as a DGN validator.

615
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:41,000
Well, I took my 10 bucks of Adam over there and had a good old run for a couple of days playing around with it until I inevitably got liquidated because I'm not a good trader.

616
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,000
How did you find it? Where can I find it at?

617
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:53,000
It's trade.lavana.onense. So it's actually unsupported region, classic.

618
00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Oh, yeah, they are geo blocking the shit out of the US. Everyone's scared to do business in the US now in blockchain.

619
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:07,000
And I mean, he might as well geo block it and just let the diehards use the VPN, right?

620
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:22,000
I wouldn't say it's just now. Like we were on the axlar test nets, but didn't get to be validators because they decided that only what is it called, certified investors of the US can actually be in it.

621
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,000
And I'm not a certified investor, whatever it's called. And so couldn't be. So that's been happening a long time.

622
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:47,000
Certified investor. So yeah, I mean, it's not new and it's still very, very present. Like for example, dydx, they don't want anybody who's affiliated in the US just because of the issues that comes with it.

623
00:44:47,000 --> 00:45:01,000
So which is totally fair. Like, yeah, I can put a lot of heat towards the British government like the UK government, but at least they have some sort of like rulebook for crypto.

624
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:11,000
The fact that the US is crypto system is fine and we will sue you even though it's a big shrug. That's not cool. That's no work for anyone.

625
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:23,000
The laws are undefined and when we decide what we want to do retrospectively, we will sue your ass. So yeah, I mean, that's that is not a very fair or a good way to do business.

626
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:32,000
But I don't know. It's interesting. I'm sure I'm sure that a lot of people will get sued that will take the fight to them.

627
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:43,000
Similar to XRP, but I don't know about XRP, but similar to what they did, I guess in fighting the good fight.

628
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:48,000
I mean, that's a decent thing to bring up. Do you have that new news list, the XRP thing?

629
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
No, probably should be though.

630
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,000
It should. Yes.

631
00:45:52,000 --> 00:46:05,000
As a whole in the ecosystem. So did you want to explain that one, Shilty? I've barely followed it over the last five years. Do you know more about it than me?

632
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:16,000
So I know a decent amount, but I feel like I'm not in a good place to explain what it's about because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

633
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:23,000
Like people. So the ruling came out. So so XRP, let me let me back up a bit.

634
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:31,000
Ripple, they had printed a ton of coins and then sold them a bunch of them. Right.

635
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:36,000
Actually, that's not true. So Ripple. Go ahead.

636
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:48,000
Ripple actually bought all of the coins off the person who created what originally was called Ripple and then was changed to XRP.

637
00:46:48,000 --> 00:47:01,000
So the token used to actually be called Ripple when it was first created. The guy, there was a couple of founders and and Ripple bought the lot, the technology, all of the stuff.

638
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:09,000
So. OK, so that's why that guy is like for a very brief period was the number one richest man in the world because they bought from him.

639
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:17,000
That's the CEO, Brad Garlinghouse. He's the CEO of Ripple, but he owns a lot himself.

640
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,000
Oh, or is it sorry, he owns a lot of shares in Ripple, right?

641
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:34,000
So 60% or at least back in 2017 or whatever, 60% of all of the Ripples are on rolling unlock schedules that is all owned by Ripple.

642
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:43,000
Right. So there's 60 billion tokens last time I looked into it that were out of 100 billion that were owned by Ripple themselves.

643
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Right. So back in the 2000 and oh, and sorry, how this works is every month.

644
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,000
Why were you trying to get me to explain this whenever you apparently know way more than me?

645
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:58,000
Well, I thought you might have known more about the SEC shit. I'll get to that. OK.

646
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:10,000
So there's there's 60 billion locked up. There's one billion per month that unlock and it's on its there's 60 of these contracts that unlock each month.

647
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,000
Right. So a billion, a billion per month unlocked. So five year unlocked period.

648
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:27,000
Yep. And a billion unlock every month. But what they do is that it unlocks, they take out what they need and sell for operations and then lock up the rest.

649
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:34,000
At least that's what they used to do last time I looked into it in like 2018 or 17 or whatever.

650
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:41,000
So presumably that's still what they're doing. But it's like a pretty slow rug on the on the other owners.

651
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:54,000
But anyway, so during that bull run where it went up to like three dollars or whatever, momentarily, Brad Garlinghouse was the richest person in the world.

652
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,000
Because Ripple was worth a shitload and he owns a lot of the company.

653
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,000
So that's just an interesting tidbit.

654
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:13,000
But so the for the longest time they were selling their products to banks, right, and other institutions and stuff.

655
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:20,000
But these are products that are built that don't actually even use XRP, like all these settlement products and stuff.

656
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,000
So there's only a certain amount of things.

657
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,000
They don't actually use XRP.

658
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:41,000
So there's they have a bunch of products, right? I can't remember the names of them at the moment. But one of them, for example, is like a settlement protocol between, you know, financial institutions and and big business and whatever.

659
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,000
But it doesn't use XRP.

660
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,000
But then there's like other general products that do use XRP.

661
00:49:47,000 --> 00:50:00,000
So it was a little bit gray when at some points they were flogging XRP by promoting these other products, which had nothing to do with them with XRP.

662
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,000
So that was interesting.

663
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:12,000
So the original founder, I can't remember his name, but he was just basically selling most of his Ripple for years.

664
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,000
And I think he's mostly out of them.

665
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,000
But I do believe he had a pretty big percentage and is now probably a rich as fuck.

666
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,000
What else can I tell you about them?

667
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,000
So XLM is a fork of Ripple.

668
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,000
Really? That I did not know.

669
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,000
Lumens are a fork of Ripple.

670
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,000
They were or maybe Ripple is a fork of Lumens.

671
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:40,000
So I think the original project, I can't really quite remember what happened.

672
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:58,000
I don't remember which one was the original one, but I remember that I think maybe the community continued on with Lumens as an open source project after Ripple bought the main project or something like that, or after the Ripple company took over Ripple, the blockchain.

673
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:11,000
If I remember correctly, Ripple's big value add is they marketed for international bank-to-bank transfers and remittance payments. Is that correct?

674
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,000
Yeah.

675
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,000
I think remittance was a big thing.

676
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:29,000
They were marketing XRP as cross-border remittance, but I think it was still more to be peer-to-peer not to do with banks. They've got other products that for end-of-day settlement and stuff on banks.

677
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:42,000
So for the record, in college, I actually began building a remittance or like a blockchain for, not a blockchain, but you try to use a blockchain to create an app for remittance because remittance is actually really interesting.

678
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,000
This is more for users than for you know, or for people that are listening.

679
00:51:47,000 --> 00:52:01,000
Because remittance, in my opinion, is one of the better use cases for blockchain. Not necessarily because blockchain is so efficient or whatever, but because the current institutions that run remittance programs like Western Union are so inefficient.

680
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:22,000
So Western Union, the last I checked, they had a 35% base fee, I think, and like a 9% transfer fee. So remittance is like say you're an Indian worker and they go work for Intel and they make $100,000 a year.

681
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:35,000
They frequently, like their family will stay in India and they will send back, you know, let's say $50,000 a year back to India for their family to live on. That's their wife, that's the kids, that's their parents.

682
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:45,000
And so if they're sending back $50,000 a year, let's say they're doing it every month. So if they're doing it every month, that is $400 a year just in the base fee.

683
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:58,000
And then, you know, another $5,000 a year in the remittance payment to Western Union for like allowing that transfer, right? So we're talking almost $6,000 out of $50,000 to send back to their family.

684
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,000
Absolutely ridiculous.

685
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,000
That is insane.

686
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:12,000
So, and that's such a common thing, like that is the main GDP of many countries is remittance payments, which sounds outrageous, but like that's the way it is.

687
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:21,000
So that is such an incredible use case for blockchain to make it easy to go border to go across border and like get payments through really awesome use case.

688
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,000
So I can see why Ripple blew up. But anyway, continue.

689
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,000
I forgot what I was saying.

690
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,000
I kind of did too. I rambled there a little bit.

691
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:34,000
So, okay, so we're talking about Ripple and the founder, he was selling a bunch.

692
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:42,000
The technology behind Ripple, like it's not even about the Ripple token necessarily, and we were leading up to why the SEC sued them.

693
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:48,000
I actually don't know why the SEC, SEC originally focused on Ripple as opposed to like ETH in the beginning.

694
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,000
I think it was an easy target.

695
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,000
Like XRP is primarily owned by one company.

696
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:59,000
And then that company has sold off tokens in various like raising events, right?

697
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,000
Back in the early day when you could buy it for a tenth of a penny.

698
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:11,000
And now, you know, I guess they so and I really wish Eric was here this week.

699
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:28,000
Oh, sorry, you server, because he knows a lot more about the issues that the SEC were taking with blockchain in general as securities.

700
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:47,000
But I believe that they were trying to argue that they were selling a stake in the company or like you're investing in the company, not the token, which I mean, it doesn't even seem right that you could even try to claim that.

701
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,000
But that's, that's what they did.

702
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:55,000
So let's fast forward a little bit to the statement on like Friday, I think it was.

703
00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:01,000
So the SEC sues Ripple and they, I guess, don't even go to court.

704
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,000
I think this is kind of where this ends up.

705
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,000
Friday, I think it's Friday.

706
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,000
The statement comes out that this can go into like a further court.

707
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,000
This is this is where my confusion with it is.

708
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:24,000
And is that the statement itself, like of by the court didn't actually say that like Ripple won, they're just saying, like, yeah, you can continue, which is kind of what confused me about why this was such a big deal.

709
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,000
But there were some interesting points in it.

710
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:39,000
So one was that Ripple selling their tokens was not like Ripple the company, not Ripple like the token selling their tokens was not there's a clear distinction.

711
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,000
The token is called XRP, not Ripple.

712
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,000
Okay, fair.

713
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,000
Yeah.

714
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,000
XRP.

715
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:52,000
So Ripple the company was sold XRP, but that was not considered a security because they were selling it to people who's not considered an investment vehicle that they were selling.

716
00:55:52,000 --> 00:56:03,000
However, exchanges that listed XRP, them selling it without clear regulatory regulatory ruling, I guess I'm not really sure how to word it.

717
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:12,000
They might be in trouble for having sold it because it could have been a an unregulated unregulated unregulated security.

718
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,000
Thank you.

719
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:23,000
Unregulated security and therefore they might have been breaking rules, whereas Ripple itself because it wasn't and then some kinds of investment vehicle, totally fine.

720
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,000
That's the really interesting bit to me.

721
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:31,000
They just make shit up.

722
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,000
It is make shit up.

723
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,000
Yeah.

724
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,000
Yeah.

725
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,000
I don't know.

726
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:45,000
I mean, I guess that's probably why the market isn't doing as well over the last few days because people actually read it and were like, oh, this doesn't actually mean too much.

727
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,000
We still have a long ways to go.

728
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,000
But I remember reading it and being like, does this mean anything for us?

729
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,000
Not really other than the price.

730
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,000
XRP got a great pump.

731
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,000
It got like a 50% or 100% pump.

732
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,000
Sweet.

733
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,000
Everything else got a couple percent pump.

734
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,000
Cool.

735
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:02,000
But now it's back down.

736
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,000
Like what?

737
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,000
I mean, that's what the crypto does, right?

738
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,000
I mean, I guess it's good.

739
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,000
Yeah.

740
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,000
I mean, I guess it's good that things are moving forward, right?

741
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:17,000
Like this isn't just being in the purgatory for lack of a better term of the core system.

742
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:22,000
This is saying like we need to actively move this forward.

743
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:32,000
So let's get off XRP because I don't think that either of us know like enough about it to have a good in depth conversation.

744
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,000
Yeah.

745
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,000
That's fair.

746
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:35,000
That's a good idea for sure.

747
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:46,000
I think we're just like, I appreciate your comments, but I don't think that either of us know like enough about that whole situation to like, I mean, I'd love that.

748
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,000
I'd actually love to have someone come on who actually knows a lot about it.

749
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,000
I think it's interesting.

750
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,000
I think it's important for the ecosystem.

751
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:01,000
Don't particularly care too much about XRP itself.

752
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,000
Yeah, I agree.

753
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:15,000
So something else interesting that happened this week was a massive opportunity between the Dex's and Coinbase with Osmo.

754
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,000
Did you see that?

755
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,000
No, I didn't.

756
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:25,000
So Osmo was trading on Coinbase for $1.65 for many hours.

757
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,000
Really?

758
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,000
Well, it's not a $1.55 for many hours.

759
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,000
No, I don't use Coinbase.

760
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,000
But yeah, so who, I can't remember who actually put this.

761
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,000
I got this off Twitter.

762
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,000
What was it listed?

763
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,000
When?

764
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,000
I don't know.

765
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:52,000
But it was between two and four times higher than the price of Osmo elsewhere for a few hours.

766
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:57,000
And someone estimated that there was about $5 million in ARB captured.

767
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Wow.

768
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,000
That's outrageous.

769
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,000
That's an outrageous sum.

770
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:02,000
Yeah.

771
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:10,000
I think people are having a lot of trouble actually making deposits onto Coinbase to try and capture that.

772
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:15,000
So maybe the lucky few actually were able to get a profit out of it.

773
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,000
But still, that's a pretty incredible ARB.

774
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:23,000
I don't think we see much like that around the place.

775
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:29,000
Arbitrage gets a really interesting, bad rap in my opinion.

776
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:38,000
You say ARB and from what I've seen, the people I've interacted with, they've always kind of given me this weird look of like you're taking advantage of something.

777
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,000
And you are.

778
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,000
But it's not like a malicious thing.

779
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,000
Arbitrage is just trying to create that equilibrium.

780
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,000
Exactly.

781
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:54,000
Arbitrage is one of the most important functions of traders across platforms because it keeps the price similar across all the platforms.

782
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:55,000
And that's what you want.

783
00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:00,000
You don't want, well, you do want wild gaps so you can make arbitrage.

784
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:08,000
But then as a consumer or a normal person, you just want the price to be the same everywhere.

785
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:27,000
But, you know, they're important for the ecosystem, especially DEXs because you need to like, you can just bid up a price or bid down a price on a centralized exchange.

786
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:32,000
Take something with a bit more liquidity like Ethereum or something.

787
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:47,000
If there is a thinly traded exchange somewhere in Ethereum, so say there's like a new exchange, they don't have shitloads of users, but, you know, ETH traded on there all the same.

788
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:59,000
If they don't have ARB bots or people arbing and people can just bid up or down that price ridiculously because there's like thin makers and takers, right?

789
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:03,000
There's not much depth in the order book.

790
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:16,000
So the advantage there of like people arbing with ARB bots is that they will actually utilize the order books and the liquidity depth in DEXs and other sexes to stabilize that price.

791
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,000
So I think that's really important for so that people don't get burnt.

792
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:27,000
And particularly like in countries where there's only limited access to centralized exchanges as well.

793
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:46,000
So I remember for a while in Australia, before they had stable coins, you could only buy certain cryptos in Australia and you could only use the Australian exchanges because the other ones hadn't broadened their business to Australia yet.

794
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,000
There was no Binance.

795
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:48,000
There was no Kraken.

796
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,000
There was no Coinbase.

797
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:54,000
There was only like Australian created and run exchanges.

798
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,000
So and there were ARB opportunities there.

799
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:10,000
I remember BTC markets just between BTC markets and Binance, I think you could get like probably I think it was like seven or eight percent pretty constantly.

800
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,000
Well, that's how FTX began.

801
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:23,000
If I remember correctly, Sam Bankman freed and I guess a couple of people, they had an in with the Japanese Regulatory Commission.

802
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:33,000
I guess let's call it that, where they could ARB off the Japanese market, which is always higher because they were so limited and then like sell the difference in the US.

803
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:40,000
And so the way they got the original money was exactly through that was arbing Japan versus like worldwide exchanges.

804
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:44,000
And then they kind of employed that with an FTX itself.

805
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,000
And then just stole everyone's money.

806
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Yeah.

807
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,000
Yeah.

808
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:53,000
Rama says doxed and gone.

809
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,000
I don't know.

810
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,000
Did I dox someone?

811
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,000
Well, maybe someone knows you're on a group from Australia.

812
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,000
Pretty sure that's obvious by now.

813
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:07,000
Try not to like use people's names, but I do fuck up sometimes.

814
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,000
So sorry about that.

815
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:13,000
Whoever I doxed or me if I doxed myself.

816
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:21,000
All right, man. Well, that is like, that's actually the end of my, my news for the week.

817
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,000
I can add a couple of things to that.

818
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:24,000
All right.

819
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,000
That's good.

820
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,000
So my researcher hasn't started yet.

821
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:29,000
Really?

822
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,000
What a slacker.

823
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,000
My researcher has begun.

824
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:47,000
So this is kind of more of a general statement, but I think it's really interesting how so many projects are transitioning from, you know, like Eigen layer or an or a layer to into cosmos chains.

825
01:03:47,000 --> 01:04:03,000
So, um, doyx is one example wormholes, another example of chains where they decided that the best move was actually to exit the ethereum ecosystem and going to the cosmos and hyperlands.

826
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,000
Another state is another.

827
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,000
I find that really surprising.

828
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,000
Maybe I shouldn't say that.

829
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,000
I'm like a cosmos ecosystem podcast.

830
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,000
We are not any longer.

831
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:11,000
That's true.

832
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:12,000
We're not any more.

833
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,000
We are a general blockchain.

834
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,000
Yes.

835
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:16,000
You are right.

836
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:22,000
So I've got a couple of like thoughts, I guess, on that type of situation.

837
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:31,000
One thing that is really difficult for new cosmos chains is that they need to market to an audience.

838
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,000
Right.

839
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:39,000
And what happens is if you start a blockchain in the cosmos ecosystem, you inevitably market to the cosmos ecosystem.

840
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:45,000
I think that the technology is good with the cosmos SDK.

841
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,000
I think it's really accessible to teams and very powerful.

842
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:56,000
IBC, I'm a maxi on IBC, not vocally, but, you know, inside, I've got high hopes for IBC.

843
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,000
You did just say you're an IBC maxi.

844
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:14,000
So inside to well, it's the only way I could let you know, you know, but I'm not out there like talking about my fucking gluten free bread that I eat every morning or whatever the vegans do.

845
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,000
All the people I'm not telling you about my yoga I do four times a day.

846
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,000
Anyway, what was I saying?

847
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:32,000
So these particular protocols, dydx, wormhole, they already have a robust user base and are very good at marketing.

848
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:40,000
And I don't think that they would be moving over to cosmos unless it had a clear advantage for their protocol.

849
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:47,000
So I think because they already have an established brand that they can do that comfortably.

850
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:53,000
And I think it only benefits the cosmos ecosystem, even if it steps on toes of people who are already here.

851
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,000
Oh, I agree for sure.

852
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,000
Like this is a huge boom to the cosmos ecosystem.

853
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:14,000
But it makes it to me it's it's utterly fascinating because it kind of it makes true Juno or I guess a any permissionless cosmos and chains like value add right like a theorem is permissionless.

854
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,000
This is where this really is project started.

855
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:21,000
And then they got their audience they got their product built and they're like, hey, we need a different scaling solution.

856
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:27,000
And so then they're coming and creating a chain in the cosmos because they see that that is the best solution.

857
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,000
And I find that utterly fascinating.

858
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,000
And I'm of course also an IBC maxi.

859
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:35,000
You can see our reeling stats to prove that.

860
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,000
And I think it's really cool.

861
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:48,000
I do still find it surprising because they are such wildly different ecosystems like going from, well, I guess probably dy dx is running is going to be like an EVM or an MOS for kind of deal.

862
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:56,000
But using go to develop your, your, your blockchain is a huge change.

863
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,000
Go ahead.

864
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:05,000
I was just, I was just thinking I was actually just thinking whether dy dx is a fork of a MOS.

865
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,000
I guess they probably probably is.

866
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,000
Yeah, well, they're there EVM right.

867
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:20,000
So, yeah, I mean, I guess they didn't necessarily mean they're a fork of MOS, but they certainly would like deploy their contracts on like an EVM chain as opposed to rewriting them and cousin wasm.

868
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,000
I guess was the point I was trying to make.

869
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:35,000
I think the killer feature like just sort of off topic a little bit for the cosmos ecosystem will be when they crack IBC connection to EVMOS, to Ethereum.

870
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Like that's when they have like a pure native built in IBC with Ethereum, like that's when the cosmos will really take off.

871
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,000
I'm not sure I entirely agree.

872
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:58,000
I almost wonder if it'll do the opposite where the cosmos will be forgotten because Ethereum adopted it, right?

873
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:01,000
Like it'll have some interchange like interconnection obviously because it's IBC.

874
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:17,000
But once Ethereum gathers, like is attached to IBC, then you know for a fact that like the next day, Solana is going to have it and then near is going to have it and then Aptos is going to have it, which is awesome.

875
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:22,000
But that doesn't mean that the cosmos is also going to be raised up when Ethereum gets IBC.

876
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:26,000
I think for me it comes down to the ease of liquidity flow.

877
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:33,000
So at the moment like say if there is something that you want to use in the cosmos ecosystem, right?

878
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:41,000
So say if let's say Lovanna has some killer feature on their perps platform that everyone wants to use.

879
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:54,000
At the moment you either have to use a sketchy arse bridge or you have to like buy into something that's in the cosmos ecosystem on a sex and you can get it in that way.

880
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,000
A lot of people don't want to deal with a centralized exchange at all.

881
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:06,000
There's a lot of like whales out there from the early days who don't really want to be tracked like the early days of Ethereum and Bitcoin.

882
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:12,000
They don't want to be through a centralized exchange at all.

883
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:29,000
I think getting liquidity from the Ethereum ecosystem for those people to the cosmos ecosystem requires the use of a bridge, which is sketchy as shit because they're just trust based on those two contracts, right?

884
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,000
And you see them getting exploited all the time.

885
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:39,000
I think if there was like a way more highly secure way of doing it, it happened more often.

886
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,000
That's a good point.

887
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,000
So I lose me in the chat.

888
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,000
It is IBC.fun.

889
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,000
It's a new, this is relevant, I promise.

890
01:09:48,000 --> 01:10:00,000
It's a new product by Skip that is you can use this website IBC.fun and do a swap from, let's say you want Adam on the Cosmos Hub and swap it to

891
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:05,000
Umi on Axelar.

892
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,000
You can do that one click.

893
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,000
That's crazy.

894
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,000
That's insane, right?

895
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,000
And adding it to Ethereum like enables that.

896
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,000
That is really cool.

897
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:20,000
And if you if you could integrate that and you can make all that work, that's super cool.

898
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,000
Can you do that with satellite as well?

899
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,000
Like Axelar satellite?

900
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,000
Can you swap doing that?

901
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,000
Because this is a swap.

902
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:36,000
This is going to find the most efficient decks to go through to say I want this and I want Juno over on stars all in one transaction.

903
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,000
Yeah, I think so.

904
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:48,000
It'd be interesting to know how that actually like what the functionality on the back end of that is because there is a new protocol that's been

905
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:55,000
worked on by, I've probably talked about this before, Ping.pub's the main developer and it's called.

906
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,000
Oh, that's right.

907
01:10:58,000 --> 01:10:59,000
Side, that's the one.

908
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:00,000
Yeah.

909
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:01,000
Yeah.

910
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,000
So they've got the ICS.

911
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,000
What are the I think it's called ICS?

912
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,000
It's not copy ICS.

913
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,000
The thing is ICS 100 101.

914
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:15,000
What do they call them the interchain standards?

915
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,000
What are they called?

916
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,000
It's ICS, right?

917
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,000
That sounds right, but I'm not certain.

918
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:23,000
Because isn't that what interchain security is called?

919
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:24,000
ICS?

920
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,000
Yeah.

921
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,000
I was talking about like Cosmos.

922
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,000
Yeah.

923
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,000
Like ADR type of things.

924
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,000
Yeah, there's ADRs, but there's also like the actual standards.

925
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,000
Yeah, ICS.

926
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,000
Yeah, I think it's like, okay, yeah, ICS.

927
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:37,000
Yeah.

928
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,000
Why would they call two things the same thing?

929
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,000
I'm sure interchain security is called ICS.

930
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:48,000
I mean, you're pretty limited on your acronyms when everything starts with fucking interchain, right?

931
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,000
Well, but the point stands, right?

932
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,000
So like, IBC.fun.

933
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,000
That's really cool that you can do a swap like that.

934
01:11:55,000 --> 01:12:02,000
As far as I know, I don't know of anything that could do like a swap from Ethereum onto NIR, right?

935
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,000
I don't know if anything can do that.

936
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,000
So I promised I wasn't getting off topic.

937
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:20,000
The two standards that they've, side protocol have actually, I think they've had one incorporated into the GitHub and they're working on the other one.

938
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,000
And by now they might have both of them in there.

939
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:31,000
But one is for, so they've got into, one of the protocols that they're getting a standard for, they've been working on a standard for is interchain swapping.

940
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,000
So it actually has liquidity on both chains.

941
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:41,000
And you can do like, oh, I can't remember the exact details, but it was pretty interesting.

942
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,000
And it's similar is what I was, is the point I was getting to.

943
01:12:44,000 --> 01:13:02,000
But the idea is that, you know, you can, you can swap your atom for Juno, but just as an interchain transaction using liquidity on both sides, rather than actually sending your atom to Juno.

944
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:07,000
So, yeah, sending your sending, it eliminates like a bunch of steps.

945
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:08,000
I sound like a peanut.

946
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:09,000
It's early.

947
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:10,000
No, no, no.

948
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:11,000
That makes sense.

949
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:23,000
What you're saying is if there's a lot of liquidity on one side and one on the other, then rather than bothering with the extensional steps of like using relays and stuff, you can just do an immediate swap to atomic swap effectively, right?

950
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:24,000
Yeah.

951
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:25,000
So that's, yeah, atomic swaps.

952
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,000
Yeah.

953
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:27,000
It was interesting.

954
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:35,000
I'll have to go back and read it so I can talk about it more in depth probably on a later episode because like those guys are working hard on that.

955
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,000
They've got a bunch of developers now as well.

956
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,000
I've seen some mockups of the interface and that's coming along.

957
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,000
Well, I mean, that's the superpower of, of IBC, right?

958
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:49,000
It's that there's all these different chains, which we as validators are aware they're all different chains.

959
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:58,000
But as we get further and further along, like on osmosis, you're no longer going to have to say deposit atom or whatever, which like to us, that's really simple.

960
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:03,000
I've tried to explain it to people why you're depositing it and they have a hard time grasping it, right?

961
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:09,000
Whenever it becomes more and more seamless where you're no longer even having to worry about the fact that I'm into the chains, that's incredibly cool.

962
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,000
I think that is just, that's brilliant.

963
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:25,000
And I think to your point that that like, if Ethereum is such a leverage cosmos contracts through doing that, yeah, that would be like if Doudaou suddenly ends up on Ethereum because they're able to use it through interchain contracts.

964
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:27,000
Amazing.

965
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:35,000
There's definitely people working on that type of stuff and the is very much a user experience improvement.

966
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:47,000
And that's the, the nut that they need to crack to really make like reduce the friction of using the cosmos ecosystem is that user experience.

967
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:52,000
And I think that I think a lot of people know that and I think a lot of people are working on that.

968
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:58,000
So, did you have, did you have anything else on your list of news?

969
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:09,000
No, I kind of aggregated everything together in that statement, just the fact that I think it's really exciting and surprising that so many projects are transitioning from Ethereum to the cosmos.

970
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:14,000
In a lot of ways, it really makes sense and a lot of ways it makes less sense to me.

971
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:18,000
But regardless of my opinion on it, I think it's really cool and it's really exciting.

972
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:29,000
I think the success of these projects that are trying to come across will really sort of pave the way for whether or not other projects come across.

973
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:42,000
So, if DYDX makes the transaction and just falls on their face, sorry, the transition and just falls on their face and loses all the users, I don't think we'll see a lot of other projects trying the same thing.

974
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,000
I have a hard time seeing how they would fall on their face, right?

975
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:58,000
So, if they've already got their current users, the way that the cosmos is really kind of functions, short of the tendermint falling down and not being able to support it, which would be deeply surprising considering it worked on Ethereum.

976
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,000
I don't really see what could go wrong.

977
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,000
Like they're not even using Kepler.

978
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:10,000
Like they basically have all of the same things they currently have, but on a faster blockchain. I think it's really exciting.

979
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:18,000
So, I don't think it's, I think the DYDX blockchain at the moment is, what is the, so at the moment they're on Ethereum, right? They're not on L2.

980
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,000
No, they just, I think so. I believe that's correct.

981
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:26,000
Yeah. So what the blockchain time on Ethereum is 12 seconds, is it?

982
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,000
Block time.

983
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,000
That sounds about right. Yeah.

984
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:34,000
I think it's about 12. At least it was when it was proof of work. I assume it's still pretty similar.

985
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:43,000
So I guess there's two things, is the actual throughput capacity as well as the actual block speed.

986
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:51,000
And I think at the moment, the DYDX block speed is probably around two or three seconds, which is a 6x improvement.

987
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:52,000
So, it's,

988
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:59,000
Well, there's also finality. I think at 12 seconds doesn't guarantee that finality for Ethereum.

989
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:03,000
Is there, I'm going to be brutally honest here.

990
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:15,000
I don't know too much about the differences now that they're a proof of stake chain, but I would imagine that the finality element has changed since they've become proof of stake.

991
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:22,000
So, I think, I think it has changed from being for being proof of work, but I don't think it has the same finality as Cosmos.

992
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,000
I think there's still like confirmations and stuff.

993
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:31,000
I'm not certain of that by any stretch of the imagination because I don't use ETH too much, but I believe so.

994
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:36,000
Ghanzi says, as far as I know, they are L3 on stockware.

995
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:37,000
DYDX is?

996
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,000
Is he talking about DYDX?

997
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,000
I'm like three.

998
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:45,000
Fuck me, we need to learn more about like the wider ecosystem.

999
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:50,000
We're like fucking just beating our dicks against the wall here.

1000
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,000
It's nice to see Ghanzi here. Good day, mate.

1001
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,000
Yeah, I feel like I haven't seen him here in a while.

1002
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,000
Yeah.

1003
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:01,000
No, it looks like DYDX is a layer two.

1004
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:05,000
DYDX layer two decentralized trading platform.

1005
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,000
I don't think it's layer three.

1006
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,000
Yeah, it's a layer two.

1007
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,000
Oh, yeah, it's layer two powered by stockware.

1008
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:12,000
Okay, yeah.

1009
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,000
So, I don't know if that's considered a layer three.

1010
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,000
I don't know.

1011
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,000
Can you tell me what in the fuck stockware is?

1012
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,000
No, no, I cannot.

1013
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:24,000
I assume it is a method for creating layer twos.

1014
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:31,000
So, if I remember correctly, layer two is effective like ICS versus like a roll up is actually a smart contract.

1015
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:38,000
And so I imagine stockware would be the equivalent of like the Cosmos SDK.

1016
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,000
All right. Okay.

1017
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:47,000
Well, yeah, I mean, I guess that's something to do some like research on.

1018
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,000
Stockware is an L2 of Ethereum.

1019
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:51,000
Okay.

1020
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,000
So, where does L3 come from?

1021
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,000
I guess that means that they've sort of built their protocol on stockware.

1022
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,000
That sounds right.

1023
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,000
Yes.

1024
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,000
Well, so different layers are like different ways of like getting back to the layer.

1025
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,000
The layer one is Ethereum.

1026
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:11,000
Layer twos are leveraging the validator ecosystem, but they have like their own kind of validator set to confirm the boss that goes up.

1027
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:15,000
The layer three, I assume is just one more layer below that.

1028
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,000
But does that make sense?

1029
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:32,000
For anyone who's watching, listening to this, yeah, we're both here scratching our heads and you can physically see cogs turning trying to like figure this out on the fly.

1030
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:38,000
So, I honestly don't think we're doing a very good job of trying to figure it out.

1031
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,000
I mean, I think it's all just terminology, right?

1032
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:42,000
It's all lingo.

1033
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,000
Like stride, I think it's now technically a layer two.

1034
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:48,000
Neutron, I think is technically a layer two.

1035
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,000
Geez, don't say that.

1036
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,000
Cosmos is a layer one, right?

1037
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:53,000
Like people call it a layer zero.

1038
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:54,000
No, it's a layer one.

1039
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,000
Yeah, but they don't have their own validators.

1040
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:04,000
Like, like ones that sort of have their own validator set and then roll up transactions and flick them up to the L1.

1041
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:05,000
Like, I don't really think that.

1042
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:06,000
Hold on.

1043
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:07,000
You're mixing up terminology.

1044
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,000
Roll up some layer twos are different.

1045
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,000
So, keep that terminology separate.

1046
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:12,000
Oh, sorry.

1047
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,000
Oh, man, this is fucking.

1048
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,000
What happened?

1049
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:28,000
I'm 99% that stride and neutron would now be considered layer twos because they are using the security of the top level validators to secure their blockchains, right?

1050
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:34,000
And you are still running the nodes as a validator for the lower level networks, right?

1051
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:39,000
So, like, it's different in that for stride, technically, they're still validators.

1052
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:47,000
We're still a validator for stride and then it rolls up to the Cosmos and Cosmos finalizes it quote unquote.

1053
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,000
Like, there's a lot of quotes here, right?

1054
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,000
Because like the terminology here is very unclear.

1055
01:20:51,000 --> 01:21:09,000
So, I think that stride and neutron are just layer twos now.