I had no idea.
And they had the they had the board.
They're doing like the dick to floor number and all that stuff.
You know, it's like DTF.
Yeah.
I thought about it.
I think it would be one king.
That's sort of everybody by height.
Well, technically, you got to sort everybody from
sort everybody from dick to floor by height.
Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast
from Independent Validator Teens.
Hello, welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast
from Independent Validator Teens.
And that was well done.
Two in a row.
Good job.
Well done. Good intro.
Peace in our time, says Noel.
So, given that you've obviously prepared very,
very carefully for rugging us into the intro,
would you like to take it away with Noel's News Corner for this week?
Oh, I'll have you know that I spent five minutes on Twitter this week.
Oh, congrats. Nice.
Wait, is that the news?
Or you mean you were on five minutes for Twitter to find the news?
That is the news.
Oh, shit.
No, no.
So actually, look, I did write down some things,
but I did literally spend five minutes on Twitter.
So I don't know if it's the most important things that happened this week.
But I had a feeling that, you know, this news corner wasn't going away just yet,
even though we haven't got any researchers on the job yet.
So I'll take it away.
So I mean, one thing I did notice, to be fair,
your research amount has increased by over 10,000 percent.
Yes.
Five minutes.
Like if you stay away from the actuals,
you just focus on the percentages.
Huge jump in research this week, dude.
Congrats.
It's technically it's an infinity.
In research point.
One thing that's really funny about this is I talked to Erdeman about it
and he was like, I don't know how I can help you guys
because you hit all the right topics.
None of you just know what you're talking about.
None of you know what you're talking about.
I was like, oh, no.
Exactly.
That hurts.
So I mean, I mean, that that is literally something that he could help with.
It's just that we would be stealing his homework.
That's the right because then we'd be looking knowledgeable.
We might not always disclose our sources.
So, no, I think we had the other issue, right?
We'd read it off and then it'd be like us.
It'd be like me stealing a professor's notes and trying to read it
and somebody'd ask you a question.
Be like, oh, that's a great question.
Do you want me to come back and read that part again to you?
This week on Quasar.
So I do feel like it is kind of my responsibility to do like at least five minutes of research
because like when we look at the inputs into this podcast, we've got the Frey who presses the button each week to create the new podcast.
You, Serpa, he does a lot.
He downloads and then re-uploads the podcast and then Shiltsy shows up and then.
Wow.
I make highly contextual short video memes at a rate of about one every eight episodes as well.
Let's just be clear.
I do feel like you might sit there for at least 30 minutes pondering what the name of the potty might be for this week and try to come up with some smart pun.
Let's pretend that it takes me five seconds because that would be less embarrassing than the truth.
Anyway, I've gone back to 1994 and found paper.
I thought you're going to say that you draw the deck or the piece of paper.
I found paper.
And that was the use of a site.
We found this raggedy ass notepad in the corner for posting the drill of the week.
Yeah.
And a pen and Twitter.
Anyway, it's got in here a heading that says game of nodes notes on my paper and not on the spreadsheet where it should be.
But anyway, the news.
So all in bits drops the lawsuit against Grace.
I noticed any comments on that.
Anybody about fucking time.
They went so far as to make it hub about it and then actually this was at the days ago that I read this, but I'm going to try to remember some shit.
So get ready.
They they had the GitHub article about it where they went on to say that yes, yes, they've dropped the lawsuit.
We're going to go public about it on GitHub and then said that they're creating a public project to be able to arbitrate issues like this in a decentralized manner.
So we're getting some more software, maybe.
And software would have prevented this problem, which was essentially bullying by a rich person or a powerful person to a less powerful person software would have 100% stop that.
So it is an open source as well.
So do not contribute.
You might be in trouble later.
Okay.
Amazing.
So so if as long as you contribute, you can be part of the penopticon.
I mean, the solution, sorry, rather than one of the people being oppressed by that, right?
Cool.
Good thing I know Rust.
Except it probably being in it'll be in a no lang, won't it?
So I feel like you said something really smart when you said that pinopticon thing like that might have been some sort of really smart panel.
I don't know what that means.
So we'll put in the show notes.
Yeah.
Maybe a link to like a dictionary.
Okay.
So the other thing that I happened to cross was a lunar whale accounts just going mad on on Luna.
There's a bunch of what people are speculating to be civil validated showing up probably not the first time this has happened.
But one of the the Twitter sleuths traced it back to Binance accounts.
So I think there was like three validators that started overnight and rocketed to the top 10 with the help of like two or three wallets and potentially Binance wallets.
So Binance pulling a big civil.
I mean Binance owned managed accounts to think Binance wallets.
Okay.
Not just like accounts that Binance that could be fake news because I didn't check that at all.
I didn't fact check that one bit.
But someone said it on Twitter.
So it's probably on Twitter.
But wasn't on threads.
If it wasn't on threads, I don't care that much.
That statement is the cornerstone of Nulls news in the corner.
Probably true.
Can we just be clear?
It's actually a silent and very common.
No.
Literary device.
Yeah.
In corner.
Nulls news in corner.
Yeah.
Okay.
I saw that before and I didn't even question it.
I'm like, that seems perfectly normal.
The corner.
This is how much do this podcast has warped your sets of reality.
Everything's fine.
That's a thing.
That's obviously a thing.
I'm just going to trust the process.
So I misspell things so prolifically that that seems completely normal to me.
Spell prolifically.
No.
So, and we, we heard about some validators getting pushed out of the Luna set.
So there, is it just three that started or was it more than that?
Cause I thought there was a bunch that got kicked out or something.
Well, it's more than just that though.
I think it was the three big ones that just sort of blew up.
They might have made more.
So, so it wasn't just that people fell out of the active set.
The interesting bit was, was that there were delegations that were moved around.
So, oh, yeah, whisper node was in the active set and they were above,
us and we're like still pretty solidly in the set,
but our delegations didn't get moved around.
Whereas theirs did.
So it wasn't that like doubt that the floor has risen.
It's that things are in a very larger way getting moved.
Was that like a couple of like whale wallets got moved off whisper or into someone else?
Or was it like a bunch of people moved off?
Whale wallets.
Yeah.
But it happened for others as well.
It wasn't just whisper, but yeah.
All those moved to these new validators.
Not to the new validators.
No.
Oh, really?
Just around.
Correct.
Yeah.
Interesting.
That is interesting.
So I'm not on Luna, but is it like, is that token predominantly owned by whales?
Is there just like 20 whale, Luna whales and then like,
This is Luna classic we're talking about, right?
No, Luna 2.
New Coke.
Which I'm about New Coke.
Yes.
New Coke.
Okay.
Right.
Must be a joke.
What is the whole thing was like a resus for the institutions.
What do you mean?
What's a new Coke?
How old are you?
So that make it down there in the 80s, 90s.
Was it 90s?
I don't even know.
But they had they branded Coke as new Coke.
No, they came up with a new formula because I don't know, whatever.
And they branded as new Coke and then they were going to switch to it.
And they ran it as new Coke.
I think it was a story.
They ran it as new Coke and everybody fucking revolted against it.
So they left it Coke, a classic.
They used to have cans called Coke classic.
Do they still do that?
I don't think they do.
I don't think they do either.
But he used to be used to be Coke and Coke classic.
I think it was what they did, but it was always called new Coke.
And I think they eventually dumped it.
There's got to be a story.
There's got to be somebody had to do a documentary on this.
I've done this now.
I only know two formulas, right?
The formula that you get at the shop and the formula that you get at Mac is.
You mean out of the five?
What did you just say?
I don't know.
Who knows?
One of them is a syrup.
What you're getting at is one of them is a syrup and one is already pre-bottled, right?
Yeah.
You get the fucking, you get the brain brew and the home brew.
That means you don't get to appreciate the Mexican Coke then because that's all the rage right now.
It has real sugar.
So you get the Mexican Coke for that one.
Just to be clear, like in a lot of the rest of the world where they have food standards
goes, Mexican Coke is Coke.
It is Coke.
Yeah.
So the Coke you get here is just Mexican Coke.
Right.
We just have sugar.
So like what's interesting, okay, not maybe not interesting, but whatever.
In the UK, they decided that because kids were fat, they were like, we're going to ban a load of stuff
and we're going to increase the price of sugar in a bunch of stuff, especially fizzy drinks, right?
Sugar tax.
Yeah, sugar tax.
Right.
So overwhelmingly, the reason that you have childhood obesity is obviously early years
nutrition.
The underlying cause is actually poverty.
The underlying reason is 30 years of like massively increasing wealth and income inequality,
static incomes.
But that actually requires a government to tackle it and some ideas.
So instead they ban sugar.
And so like literally every single soft drink was like, right, fuck it.
We don't want to touch this.
We don't want to spend any more money.
So we're going to basically shadow move to like you guys have Coke zero, right?
Yeah, that's still Coke zero.
It's really new Coke, right?
Cause people are like, oh, I don't like Coke zero.
It doesn't fucking taste like Coke.
What's the point of even drinking it?
No, but new Coke wasn't sugar free or anything like that.
Well, no, no, I know, but like people, people, like the thing is like there are, there are new
Oh, versions.
Yeah.
Super popular.
Like Coke zero.
So what's now happened is that in the UK Coke zero is in a red can.
So it used to be a black can and then it was a black can with black writing.
And now it's red can with white.
It has white writing, but it says zero in black.
So it's quite hard to see the zero.
Okay.
And classic Coke, because they is the only, so every single company, literally every single
thing I've found to Sprite, you name it, only Coke and Pepsi said, oh, we'll eat the cost
of keeping the sugar in and just can size.
So now the only way you can tell apart really, glards Coke zero and classic Coke is that
the can is smaller for classic Coke.
10 ounces or something instead of whatever.
Yeah.
It's, it's have 330 mil.
It's 260 mil for the same price.
But weirdly, some places have the same old 330 mil cans, but they just charge you slightly
more.
So it means that you can't even bank on like identifying the shape of the can.
So some, so quite often you're literally going to a store, pick up a can of Coke, walk towards
the counter with it and then be like, this is bullshit Coke zero, you heave it into the
sun and then you go back and get something with actual sugar.
And you just peel off more dollars for it.
Yeah.
You just like, look, I like to know the cast and the gens that I'm ingesting.
Right.
I thought you were going to say they do like, like what Canada does with cigarette packs
where they put like horrible pictures of mutilated babies and whatever else they put like this
thing kills or whatever else.
Well, I thought maybe for new Coke, they put just big, big American kids on the side of
it.
No, we have pictures of overweight American kids is plastered on the side of the high
sugar Coke in the UK.
So we have, uh, yeah, we have Coke zero and Coke no sugar.
What the fuck is Coke no sugar?
Diet Coke or is Diet Coke a third thing?
So there's like, they call it Coke.
Yeah.
There's diet.
There's diet, which says no sugar and then zero, which is zero sugar, but they both got
no sugar in them.
But which one is Doquan's current project?
Both.
One might be a caffeine free shirt.
He is the franchisee in Australia.
That's what he did with all those loon of dollars.
Yeah.
So Ben Davis says that, um, you know, glass bottle Coke is the best Coke, which I tend
to agree with.
I don't know how the flavor changes, but you also end up with a weapon at the end.
So you defend yourself for the bush.
I can give you a fact on this.
There is the way that you taste things, uh, differs depending on the pattern of bubbles
in the liquid, because we, we actually taste like our senses.
For whatever reason, we can taste the pattern of bars or bubbles and what's in them.
And so they've done scientific studies.
If you put like, say champagne in a different shape glass, it literally tastes different.
So there is some evidence, I guess that that would hold true for any carbonated drink,
right?
I think wine is more about the oxygenation.
So it's about, you're saying about the oxygenation as it comes up rather than the shape of the
vessel.
Yeah.
Like that's why they have decanters.
So that's, that's, that's like non carbonated.
So we're talking about only carbonated.
So like, no, but present would have it.
So what I'm saying is that the shape of the container matters for carbonated things.
So like Prosecco champagne, not wine, Prosecco champagne, but that would also hold true for
carbonated soft drinks, right?
I think, oh, like what the fuck is Prosecco champagne like that?
Prosecco and champagne.
They're two different types of sparkling.
You know, bubblies.
Bubbly.
They're lovely bubbly.
And now here's, here's a, here's one for you.
So Coke better out of a bottle, right?
Like a glass bottle in my opinion.
Can I get a show of hands?
Yeah.
So I think that is Mexican Coke over here.
That's what they consider Mexican Coke is like it's in the bottle of sugar.
The fucking Mexican Coke over here is like goes up your nose, not your mouth.
So.
So the, but on the conversely beer better in a tin.
I hate drinking beer out of a can.
Really?
I think the aluminum taste does side them though.
I poured it out.
I poured it into a glass.
I fucking hate this.
I do.
I do I do.
I do.
I do so.
Do.
I do.
I kid you, there is.
Before that, that's it.
There's what they're crappy wallet.
Mm. So I do have one more news.
I I endeavored to have three items of news.
So I've got one more.
What do you think is a good number of items like three?
I mean, it seems like a lot.
Yeah, all right.
Five. I would say there could be small news nuggets.
Yeah, they could be news units.
This one's for the operators out there.
The operators are warriors.
Shout out.
The ladies.
Obal, has anyone heard of Obal?
Yes. So DVT distributed, validated technology.
I watched an entire podcast on it,
and it is more or less Horcrux competition sort of.
There's a tenement like is it for.
So it started out as a project for Ethereum.
Uh-huh.
But they are going to migrate it to Cosmos based chains.
I don't know.
It seemed to be more based around like a
validator that's distributed by organizations.
So, for example, if you had like,
say 20 for argument's sake,
smaller validators who wanted to get into the hub, for example,
then they might pull their resources.
I mean, in some ways, this seems like a really inefficient
like model for a validator in terms of like resource use,
but him yeah.
So they could pull their resources to create a distributed validator
in a similar way to how Horcrux would do it,
except they would all have ownership of a shard of the key.
And then they could raise that validator as a group
and delegate to it as a group to bring it up.
So it's a Daueron validator, but with extra steps.
Well, potentially, but it could also just be a B2B,
like business to business.
I assume you need a certain percentage of that
available to sign.
Is that right?
Yeah.
So you need two thirds of the,
and I guess you break the key down in whatever percentage
is based on ownership and then you had a 66% they signed type of thing.
Mm hmm.
Huh.
Yeah.
So they designed it for Ethereum,
but they're planning to port it over to the Cosmos.
So there was question time at the end,
and question time seemed to go on longer than the presentation time,
which is irritating to me.
But anyway, so there were questions around the governance problem.
And like, it doesn't seem like they had really solved the whole operator key
is different to the signing key issue.
Oh, I see.
Yeah.
So they can sign blocks, but the idea of like actually voting on something
probably doesn't work.
Yeah.
And also like, I don't think they had,
maybe they thought about it, but I don't think they had like,
well, they certainly didn't articulate very well
how the mechanism would work for like a shared,
right, like operator key, like whether that would be some sort of multi-seg or,
yeah.
Get rid of it all.
I mean, just fucking you flush Cosmos validated.
Down the toilet, start over.
Yeah, that's good.
Go to an incredible amount of effort to fucking.
So what you're saying is that instead of just A, running a validator,
B, running a Dow run validator, you could see,
run a slightly more complex Dow run validator and split one 20th of nothing.
Yeah.
Basically, you get one of those shiny new codes.
Let's get the, let's get the montage music on.
And I want to run up the steps like Rocky.
At some point validators will have to do this because all the
the actual validator set will just be filled with the validators that are run by the other chain,
chain owners.
So you'll have in 150 different chains running validators on all the other 150 different chains.
So there's no room for anybody else.
That's what's going to happen.
Does that happen?
Yeah, sure.
There's tons of them.
Well, we got Chihuahua.
They bounced around a bunch, right?
Chihuahua does it.
Yes.
Shane does it at Stargaze and Juno's talking about doing it.
And it's going to happen more and more, right?
Juno isn't owned by anyone.
I mean, you could have, you could have, yeah, you can have mesh security or you can just run
validator on other chains or, I mean, yeah.
I like my street.
It's kind of surprising it didn't happen more actually.
Like given the amount of money some people made in App Chain Winter, like just at that
point, the hub wasn't doing so well, but it's actually like in hindsight held up surprisingly
well given market conditions.
Like the IQ 9000 move it turned out was to exchange your second tier
Cosmos coins for atom, right?
Basement.
You know, your non hub tokens for hub tokens and then run a validator and that would have
probably generated more money than your entire chain potentially.
So.
So, you know what news?
Because there's, Ben keeps bringing news point number four up like five or six times.
This is a metamask coming to Cosmos, right?
Well, it's kind of coming to, this is the metamask API piece, right?
Yes.
I think snaps is the ability for individuals to write a plugin snap that adds in the metamask
to be able to extend to other L1s and L2s and whatever else.
So now when there's a lot of security for in metamask, every single ecosystem gets rocked.
Well, there.
Sure.
Right.
One to rule them all.
But yeah, I think there's a few groups that are, I know one that's working on the, obviously
the Cosmos integration or I should say, tenement IBC integration for metamask.
And I think there's a couple, right?
There's like at least two I know of that are that are starting to write snaps for tenement
for tenement, just dreams.
So secret how this running like 18 months ago.
The DIY.
This isn't new, is it?
The DIY DX test net has every other wallet except Kepler.
So is it like EVM or?
It is.
It is EVM, I believe.
Yeah.
I did have one more item of news.
I mean, it's not on the list, but it's been talked about a lot.
So I could probably mention it.
If you want to go on, please, what do you want to invite?
Go on.
I was waiting for the vindication.
So it has been the talk of the town, the feasibility of reducing set sizes.
Okay.
For networks.
It's extremely feasible, right?
Is this also known as Nulls I was right all along corner?
Sorry, I would have prepared a tech ref I'd known.
It is Nulls I was right all along.
I was fiercely against raising set sizes during the bull market just for the sake of people being able to fucking get in at the bottom because it creates an overhead that you have to deal with later.
And here we are.
So did it benefit anyone in that fucking year and a half's time?
I don't think so.
People who are down there barely have any delegation compared to the rest of the chain and have now been running hardware for a year with fucking negative revenue.
But nonetheless, look, some people are cutters and just want to do that anyway.
So now the question is whether they should be trying to reduce the size of the set to stem the losses, I guess, from those people down the bottom.
What's the point?
Unless they want to.
I don't see the point.
The overhead to the chain is not that severe on something that's slow anyway.
You can still make the blocks on time.
It's not that much data overhead.
I'd prefer to have 50 better for my hard disk, but it doesn't really matter too much in the big scheme of things.
I'll recycle nodes quick enough that I don't kill the hard drives.
But that's the number of connections, right?
You could just reduce that anyway.
There's nothing to the set size.
The set size adds an overhead in terms of data. Every block you record information about every single validator on the network.
So there is some extra storage overhead, but it's not like things like Stargaze and Juno and Evmorsen.
It's not enough to really care about.
Yeah, in some sense, I think, or we've seen ones that are not even filled out all the way.
So it's starting to happen naturally on its own.
And I would assume that you're going to see more and more people just walking away.
The floors have changed a lot.
Even on networks that still pay, the floors sometimes you can get in for virtually nothing.
And I think it's up to everyone wanted those set sizes.
I think they should just stay there.
And if people are making a loss, it's up to them to close down and walk away.
Well, I think one of the tools that I was thinking about, like it's really, I'm trying to come up with something, but I think one tool that will be really valuable would be an ROI metric on chains that is extremely easy to use.
Meaning to pick a spot, pick a chain, pick the returns are known at a specific commission rate at a specific spot within a set.
And then you can put it, say, I think it's going to cost me $300, $400 a month of just hardware costs plus my time and everything else in terms of being able to support a new chain and then do the math on a chain that exists.
Because I think people have no idea.
Like I don't think it does the math.
And a tool actually that would help them look at, yeah, you're down 190 out of $200 a month.
And this is where your break even is.
Your break even is as at Juno at a buck or $2.
And so you look at it and actually make a reasonable decision because I think everybody runs into it, but I don't think I may have actually done the math.
Like I don't think I mean, it's not really easy to kind of figure out what the actual commission amount is based off of a mint and everything else.
It'd be a nice tool to build.
So one thing that I think would be handy is like an exit strategy built into the protocol.
So one thing that happens when, so say, you know, big balls blockchain validator wasn't that popular and they're sitting down there with like, they're, you know, on the floor, they've got 27 different delegators delegating seven Juno.
Yeah.
And you don't want to fuck those.
I thought they were really big balls that Jimmy Small Bulls got you.
Okay.
You're just your own terminology here.
They don't want to fuck over their 27 delegators when they leave, right?
Yeah.
So they're just hanging in there paying their $300 a month for their server so that they don't fuck over these guys in their seven cents.
Maybe if they moved to Hetzner, they would break even in.
That's like higher because they're breaking terms of service.
And then we all know.
I mean, at that point you're looking at a Raspberry Pi that's already amortized.
Yeah.
So what would be handy is some sort of function in the blockchain that doesn't have to be an upgrade handler where you could say, all right, I'm going to exit.
I run this transaction and it just sprays your delegations across the fucking the rest of the set.
Right.
I actually built a proof of concept for that tool and couldn't get funding for it.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
You're on the same page.
Like, just to be able to automatically re-delegate delegators that are delegated to me, right?
I should have that.
Exactly.
So you just fucking put it below them.
Sure.
So it was a code x forward slash I am going to head out.
Yeah, that's what it was called.
Yeah, it was more generalized than what I built.
But yeah, I approached the ICF about it and they were like, well, we actually don't fund things that are less than like $500,000.
And I was like, it is $500,000.
It can be.
Yeah, I was like, I can make this awesome.
I'm afraid if you like.
I think I forgot to carry it.
I'm emotional why I charged that.
Yeah, I was right.
Yeah, they probably would have or more.
Yeah.
Go more tidy.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
That's it.
Because there's no way to communicate today and you can't like even I thought about like doing that.
Like you could do a message to everybody, but they always got to see that shit in the memo.
It's like, like there's no visibility to it.
So you really blasting it out on Twitter, you're trying to go into, you know, community discord conversations or something else.
Like there's no way to communicate that.
So somebody's going to be surprised eventually when they come back a month later or two months later.
Could I just throw a regulatory curveball in there and just say maybe it's better that people can get rugged by the validator going away because of hardware failure, getting hit by a bus, whatever it might be with no communication.
Because then that increases consumer risk in the general case.
And it means that number one, if you're validating has a plan to communicate something like that, you know, showing some due diligence and maybe it's like a differentiator for trust.
But also number two, you know, it's decentralized baby, you know, the shits of Wild West.
It is.
But I do agree with Mel's point that I think validators hold on because the exit is not clean.
And actually, this brings us to an actual show note transition.
I don't know if you meant to do this.
But friend of the show, Bosco from Silk Notes was talking about this just recently because they were talking about leaving.
And this is a point that we could talk about, but they were talking about leaving some chains.
And he brought up the question that we are not leaving some chains that we think do not have a future because we're concerned that it...
We're kind of afraid that I'll use his words.
We're kind of afraid that it might lose us delegations on quote unquote better chains or another chains.
And so the idea is that is leaving a chain or leaving something that is not, you know, not earning or doesn't seem like it's going anywhere or whatever else.
Is that a brand negative or do delegators actually even give a shit?
I think it's... I think it can be brand negative, especially if you have people that delegate to you across a bunch of networks.
But like, you know, I think that people jump into being a validator without putting too much forethought into it.
And I believe that if you're going to start validating a network, then you should be committed to that network
until it goes into the dirt, no matter how much money it loses you.
Why?
The thing is like...
Why?
That's insane.
Yeah, so you didn't hear me out. You didn't hear me out.
So if the chain is bad for users, yes.
Define bad for users.
You know, that needs definition.
But yeah, you know, something like maybe SIF chain or...
I wasn't asking for examples.
I was not saying that the site is bad for users, by the power vested in me by the users.
I am going to find this painless...
That's a constantly changing policy.
Like, I could look... Like, I judge things based off of a... Like, what are the ones that would be the number of actual upgrades or code that's being pushed?
Yeah.
Like, our dev team is actually working on it.
If the developer is being abandoned and the chain has no hope, then it's done.
But the other part of it is that... Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there.
But the other part of that is that...
What are you taking?
I know, I love it.
It's like, it's the only reason I show up.
But the other piece of it is that the chain itself might not need changes for the dApps that use that to be able to take advantage of that.
Like, a good example of this is...
It's like, it's perfectly functional, but you still want the developers to be there.
Like, a good example is OmniFlex.
Like, there's very... I think we've had like maybe one breaking chain change upgrade in two years or something.
And there's like, Cicela rolls out very slow changes in that.
But on the app side, there's tons of work that's being done, right?
So I don't really count that.
But it is very evident that they are still there.
Oh, huge.
Oh, yeah, huge.
So you can't really look at it just at that.
But the other hand, like something like Constellation or even like Nomic.
Like, what are we doing?
Like, what's happening with these?
It's funny that you bring up Nomic because there was just an upgrade today about it with it.
What upgrade?
If I can just finish my thought.
Wait, what?
If I can just finish my thought.
So, you know, what I mean is that if you are going to commit to a blockchain, I think in the first place, you should believe in that particular blockchain or what they're trying to do.
And I think you should at least be making a commitment to see it through some tough time.
Like, if you, you know, I don't agree with just soaking up the good times and then fucking popping smoke and then coming back in the good good times.
Like, I think that if you're going to commit to that chain, you should bring it up even, you know, maybe soak up a bit of good time.
But if there's a deep bear market like we're in now, I think you should be like willing to to bear through that.
Yeah, I think.
At least, you know, a certain amount of time, like, I don't think it's like, okay, well, I'm not making money this week.
I'm just going to fuck off now.
No, I don't think that's I don't think that there's there's those are two different extremes, right?
There's one is just running it forever without anything happening and nobody's using the chain.
It's just producing zero transaction blocks for years and years.
Versus at the first sign of challenge.
I'm dumping it.
Like there's there's areas.
I mean, is like you should be making a commitment to it and have that have that in mind like know that when you join this blockchain, it may not make you money for a while or it may make you money for a while and then not make you money.
And how how you handle that as a business or an individual is is, you know, you need to plan for that.
You can't just I can't really be making money.
Right.
At the same point, it's a business.
So yeah, and if if you look at teams that are not executing and you look at founders that have left or you look at users that are not there, you're wasting your you're wasting your fucking time and money and you should go spend that somewhere else in the category of well, this this chain is not going to make it.
I'm not supporting a chain that has a good chance.
I'm supporting a fucking dead camel.
Sure.
Yeah.
And the challenge is it's difficult.
It's sometimes the determining the difference between those two is is really difficult, especially in a bear market, right?
Because it's difficult to see is it's just something that's sitting in a lull and it takes it needs time or is that is that it's never coming out?
Right.
So and we've had we have a good number of chains that have had good times that we still run that are in the doldrums like everybody else.
And we've had we have a lot of chains that we run that have never had the good times.
Right.
So so you have both those.
I think the ones that had the good times can you extend it longer because you think has a possibility of of of of regrowth maybe.
And but the ones that you you run that have never done anything or maybe maybe don't even have tokens that are liquid.
You look at and say, you know, is there a time light on this?
And if there's not a time limit, you gotta make some decisions.
So there are chains that we run that are relatively new that and I'll name some that don't make money and probably never will.
One of them is Kujira and that may be a function of our we've got 1% commission on there.
But I think even at 5% is pretty good chance.
I thought it was fee based, isn't it?
It's fee based, but you do also get a stipend for Kujira.
You should be getting $75 a month as a validator, which might not be covering your costs, but at least goes somewhere.
So it's hard to say that.
But we're net loss on that for sure.
100% I would think right because you also have to run those other unsupporting chains for the Kujira too.
Or no, no, no, you know, by the time you run a couple of century nodes, fucking mate, the time is I'd be losing $3,000 a month in fucking time.
Yeah, the price theater changes are quite a lot for sure.
The governance and price feed is I don't vote the price feeder changes are fucking insane.
Why is that?
Like it should be automated.
It should be automated from Kujira.
I mean, like, yeah, it is just it takes fucking time.
It takes fucking way too much time for what it is.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, knowledge just started, but you know, it's we're right next to you on that shield.
So I don't think we're going to turn a profit on that for which one?
A long time.
No, no, no, no, noise isn't listed.
But it's always I was really expecting.
No, it's always I was never I never had like huge expectations of profit there. It's just really more support.
I like the to me noise is more of a public good.
Yeah, I agree.
That's I agree.
And it's relatively light and I don't think that there needs to be much maintenance on it and they purposely kept the set small right so that it's, you know, manageable.
Right.
Exactly.
I'm happy to run that indefinitely. You can run that on your fucking.
Yeah, agreed.
Like it's a it's a very reasonable. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Mars is like, I don't know about Mars.
Like we we don't well, I think we rank in the mid there somewhere, but it seems like really top heavy.
And so how long has that been running for?
Shields see maybe like three or four months longer than that.
I've been out for three or four months.
So I think we've made a total commission of about fucking 60 bucks.
It's probably more like 68 months at this point.
Yeah.
So 10 bucks a month.
That doesn't seem very sustainable to me.
I think that the people like high up in the in the set might be able to like cover their costs make a little bit of profit.
I have been considering pulling out of Mars.
I don't think that I have a lot of actual delegators there.
I think it might just be a whale that's got someone way.
So maybe I'll just like jack the commission up and wait for them to leave rather than them getting nothing.
Yeah, but that is, you know, just one that like even even if you're like top 20, I don't don't think you're going to make money on Mars.
It's a pretty high profile chain too.
It is, but it doesn't like it doesn't.
No, I understand.
I'm just saying it's disappointing.
Yeah, it's just not economically incentivizing validators very well.
So going back to to Bosco structure, do we think that we can't talk through like if should we leave or not a certain thing?
But do we think that leaving chains that that fall under the criteria of bad chain definition to be fine later?
That if leaving does that have an impact defined in this podcast?
Absolutely not.
No.
I think that I think we could know that this this won't have a resolution this entire conversation.
No, absolutely.
No, this is we can bring it back up seven or eight times and just beat the fuck out of the dead cat over the next six months.
Perfect.
Okay, so what I think is that could it be bad for your brand?
Yeah, possibly.
But I think what you can do to reduce the damage is to be is to have a plan and communicate it effectively as you can to the decentralized world.
Just fucking Twitter.
And you know, give people ample run time to undeligate, give many updates, warnings.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Right.
Put it into your moniker.
Do not delegate.
Yeah.
And leave it there for a couple of months.
Getting set out.
Yeah, yeah, like all the things you can do to at least try and get the delegators to leave and re delegate.
I think that's a responsible way to do it rather than just popping smoke and fucking unbonding.
Yeah.
And honestly, I mean, for the most part, if it's community based, there are delegators that are on there.
And if we're leaving a specific chain, there's no value in it.
So like, it doesn't fucking matter.
Like, like, honestly, like, I understand the ability of like, not like turning off of restake and other types of things, but whatever's in there, it's worthless.
So the ones that we're talking about that in this situation, it's like, I agree with everything you're saying, like, we want to do these things.
But if you step back, right, it's there's nothing there.
So it's, it's a, you want to act professionally around it, you want to be able to write the thing, obviously, but at the same point, it's not like we're not going to the situation we're causing anybody money.
I would caution everyone from being a chain whore.
What does that mean?
Like just fucking whoring around the chains, joining everything.
Oh, as a validator as a delegator as a validator.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, like, you know, that is some people's strategy, though, like I know Schultz is on about 400 billion fucking chains.
500 billion, actually, you never know.
I mean, to the point you never know what the hell's going to happen.
Right.
Like you never know what's going to win her.
Either you, right.
Some of the most profitable chains in App Chain win to we didn't get on because we were just like, we're good with Stargaze and Juno.
There are two big bets.
Yeah.
What was profitable?
I mean, fucking everything was profitable.
Do you not remember?
Oh, you mean, oh, okay.
A year ago.
Yeah, that's six, that five, six month period before it, the wheels came off with prop 16 and then UST drove everything into the dirt.
Like there was a period where, you know, fucking Chihuahua could make you $100,000 a month.
I think that even like with with, I mean, Chihuahua was not profitable anymore, but you know, we'll keep running that.
So I think we would be where we are now anyway, without prop 16 and without UST would still be here.
There's, I think such a, it would be something else.
I think the timing might have been different.
I think Cosmos went down heavily before the rest of crypto or maybe they all tanked at the same.
Well, they all had a slide at the same time.
It's a slide maybe.
It moves, it moves with the greater market rate.
There's nothing, I mean, it moved farther than the greater market, but still.
But it also went up more than the greater market as well.
So yeah, true.
But again, around about so suppose.
So my question would be on this, right?
And we are going to find the bad chains thing, but my question would be, is the answer this question different depending on who your delegates are?
Because I think if your goal is mainly retail, then I think the more visibility, the better, right?
You want to be everywhere.
Whereas if your goal is maybe some retail, but like maybe retail with a bit more, a bit more of a bag or, you know, people who are going to do a bit more due diligence.
The discerning investor, shall we say, plus potentially like foundation delegations, team delegations, those sort of like actual kind of big bag holders.
You're more likely to go quality over quantity, right?
And so coming off chains that you perceive as bad quality, as long as your definition is sound might actually mean that those bag holders, if you're in the latter camp, might trust you more on the chains that you do retain, right?
And certainly, unless you're the size of some of these like, you know, big, big bulls companies that love double signing like Block Demon, like you're not just going to get auto enviroment.
You're going to get auto invited to every massive VC circle jerk that's going to make you loads of money.
So those guys are going to run every chain they can get their hands on, because they do that.
And then they'll drop them like hot trash as soon as they don't want to look at what figment do.
But unless you're figment, there's a really serious danger to that strategy because just doing that strategy isn't necessarily going to get you invite to the big brand new hot VC chain that might actually be really valuable.
Whereas being more discerning, you might there's still a chance you can network your way into that.
And you won't have to have all the heartache of running garbage.
So I don't know. I don't know.
But then I guess, you know, we're only in sort of two main ecosystems, plus some additional L ones that we've kind of been invited to or whatever.
So I guess maybe we're not the best one. I'm certainly not the best person to be a spokesperson for that strategy of being hyper discerning, but across multiple ecosystems because we're still very heavily exposed to two or three main ones.
Whereas like Schultz maybe, the thing is like Schultz, you know, lavender five spread across like a small number of ecosystems, we're quite discerning, but you also do run fucking loads of random ass chains as well.
Yeah, we do.
Schultz, would you be like negative across cosmos then or
Well, I guess it depends on if you count salaries or not.
I do count salaries and commission.
Then as a business, as a profit and loss business, so you net negative across the cosmos.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we take in a decent amount of commissions, but like for like infrastructure. Yeah, we're positive for sure.
But for salaries, no question.
So what you mean by that is by when you balance the commissions you're receiving directly against like the outgoings from just the infrastructure costs.
Yes, you make potentially a profit, small profit. But when you take into account that you actually have to pay people because you need people to run this shit or yourself and you're making a loss.
And myself. Yeah, and myself. And relay relaying is still expensive.
So so last year without paying myself a salary for the year, the way we do accounting, we lost 30 grand last year.
Yeah.
Yeah. So and we don't we don't cover that many chains like we're now on 14 chains.
So, you know, you have multiple employees, I imagine potentially a lot worse for you.
Yeah. Well, you know, you know what I mean, across the cosmos anyway.
There's a pure, there's a pure like cosmos operation, like just the validator side of things. I think that would be the same position for us, especially because we only actually did off AWS re platform like four months into this tax year.
So that was already when the bear was rolling. We were like, shit, we need to start decommissioning AWS stuff.
So even we're bringing that cost right down, I think we'd be in the same boat where maybe we paid a good we were probably paying our info costs until about last September, I would guess.
And that was the point where I think the token price dip below our ability to cover it from our delegations to cover infrastructure costs.
And that's obviously not taking time into account. But because we do additional stuff like, especially until like last September, when my availability changed quite heavily because of life events.
We are still doing some software development here and there and that was also like bringing in some income.
So those two things combined meant we are still turning a profit. But I think from that point on, I'm not even sure we've created a taxable event like a cash out event since last September is the validator because it gets to a point where like,
at this price, it's not worth creating that event. It's not really, I mean, it could be worth compounding, but you are increasing your risk position potentially.
I don't know, like, is it better to just like sit on the commission and wait for it and trust that you're going to keep, because like you say now, if you're going to keep running the networks, you've, you're making a bet already that they're going to become profitable in the future, right?
So do you just sit on them and then wait for that commission to come back around but not create any taxable events in the meantime and just say, infra is a straight right off.
That's kind of been our position. And then, you know, we're washing our faces of business by doing regular consulting. That's kind of what we're doing.
And that now is actually to be fair, after replatforming almost everything that we run off of AWS, the great replatforming finishing last month.
Nice.
We now cover all our infrastructure costs just off of our consulting. So we actually do turn, we are, we're actually turning like a net profit just on that line of business again, which is.
Do you not only delegate like two chains on Cosmos?
We run about four chains because we're on Mars, Stargaze, Juno.
Oh, you're in Mars.
Yeah.
Yeah, you'll get some.
Genesis and Mars.
Stargaze, Juno.
Yeah.
I think we've now come off the other chains that we were in on Cosmos. I think we're just on those three now.
Yeah.
Although they did get a weird bill from Hexen the other day that suggests that we still do run a passage box.
That's halted, I think.
Has it?
I think so.
I think it halted a few months ago, right? Is that right?
Yeah.
I thought we was giving you exit.
I thought we did, yeah, but maybe.
Kill it.
Maybe I haven't renamed that, maybe I haven't renamed that box, but I thought, I thought we had like a couple of monitoring boxes in Hexen, but then there's this weird line item that sort of looked like a coded way of saying that it was a server involved in passage in some way, but not trying to, you know.
Get the ear up of the Hexen police, you know.
So that is one example, right, that we left passage, but we didn't have any delegations whatsoever, so I had no problem leaving that.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
Yeah.
I mean, it's halted right now anyway, so it's been halted for, I don't know, three or four months or something like that.
I mean, you have also reminded me to go and fucking double check that before I go on holiday.
You should get rid of that thing.
That's 45 years old.
Same thing.
Save the private key, dump everything else.
Leave the cannolis.
Yeah, blow the, blow the, send the private key into the solid.
Scrub that hard drive.
Exactly.
All right.
So we, do we determine, do we answer Bosco's question or no?
Probably not.
The answer is yes, you can do it.
I think, I don't think it has an effect on other delegations.
I think it's partly, responsibly, even if they're, even if it's, everything's worth nothing and whatever, whatever.
What we, I think the conclusion is it depends on your definition of a good chain.
Luckily, we will give you that definition.
Episode 71.
34 minutes time.
So,
So speaking of profitability, like I, I reckon there are like some chains where take Stargaze, for example, right?
Like we got pretty heavy Stargaze bags as a validator.
We make three times the amount in rewards than what we do in commission.
We could probably happily fucking leave that and still have good exposure to that chain without taking up a slot.
But I mean, I wouldn't because it's also a similar to noise.
It's also a pretty, it's a low stress chain, right?
Like a lot of work.
And I think like contrary to some opinions in this fucking chat, the, I think that that chain will probably make it.
Oh, I think so too.
There's a pessimist amongst us who thinks that all the chains will fail.
Well, no, I think the, the, so back to the MetaMask thing.
And so we could talk a little bit more about what that means, but that idea and that plugin, I don't think anything defy that integration makes any sort of fucking difference.
I really don't.
Like those products exist elsewhere on also on low cost chains.
There's lots of options for that.
NFT marketplaces that have low costs and the ability to, like I could see that MetaMask integration actually really turning into something very positive for Stargaze and OmniFlex for that matter, but primarily Stargaze.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think you're right.
It makes a lot of sense for Stargaze.
It does.
Like it, it has a real benefit there, especially with the gas structure and the speed of transaction.
I mean, the site looks, the site is hollow and ass.
I really think that that integration has a good possibility, especially if NFTs show up in the app or in the, in the actual extension, I can see my NFTs, I can see Cosmos NFTs in the MetaMask extension, things like that, like that, that you're starting to get some cool stuff in that.
So I'm excited about that and see if that happens.
You know, I think, I think OmniFlex will also do well once they find their stride.
Like, I think they need to do better with marketing to the target audience.
I don't think users are their target audience.
I think like media outlets and stuff like that are their target audience that they need to target better and, and market to better.
But I think if they can actually like bring the right users to their platform, they will probably do well in the long run as well.
And there's a,
I'm just committed to it.
Yeah, and there's such a ton of functionality there too.
I have a harder time seeing the value out of OmniFlex versus Stargaze, not that I've anything against OmniFlex, but if they're like, what is their marketing to like media agencies, right?
They're not marketing that they're like a federated YouTube.
Like, so, so what's the value that they're really adding to being a platform?
Yeah, well, that's it.
They're not marketing the actual functionality, which is like a federated YouTube, right?
Is that what it is though?
If everything's an NFT and the ability to claim ownership and commission and structure around that, and you extend that to these other types of media things, I think that OmniFlex is building the ability to do that.
To Null's point, how they market that and people understanding just how to be able to take advantage of it and use it.
I think that's probably the gap, right?
Like, like, what is that?
Okay, that's cool.
Now, realistically, other than me buying and selling NFT and having a marketplace, how do I use that?
Like, what do I do with that?
Right, like even from a video clip perspective, like who uses that and what's the structure around it?
Because now you're dealing with like transactions, not between NFT holders, but your transactions between organizations or between individuals and organizations or broadcasters and all that type of stuff.
And I think you start opening this Pandora's box of complexity, right?
There is 100% of gap between the market and the product.
Oh, yeah.
Which is, I mean, you can say that for all of Web3, right?
I mean, there's a lot of that, right?
But I think in that area, they're early for sure.
But the functionality is there and it's cool, especially like cross-chain FTs and all this type of shit.
There's a lot of cool stuff there.
It's just a matter of like what's going to be the compelling event that like really wakes people up and go, oh, shit, I can see, you know.
I mean, OmniFlix, they contribute to other things as well.
They more or less developed like StreamSort wrote with Osmosis.
Yeah, don't get me wrong.
I'm not speaking poorly on them.
I just, I guess.
Sounds like we're shitting on them, she'll say.
Yeah, exactly.
I just want to know more, right?
So if I think of the most popular apps for videos like TikTok, right?
Could OmniFlix be able to compete with TikTok in any way?
Like, would they be able to stream their videos like TikTok can?
Do they have it stored in such a way?
Do they have the same level of replication?
Can they do that?
I don't know.
Yeah, good question.
Like, could they build a mobile app that has the user experience of TikTok and then allow the ability for people to tip in Flix?
Like, that's a good question.
Could I stake on a video?
Because this guy is, right?
Could I stake Flix on a video knowing that the more views come happen, the more views that that person gets.
I take a piece of that.
Exactly.
The staking also raises where they are in the app, like, because they have more visibility.
The answer to the question is, do they have $50 to $60 million in the bank?
That's right.
Because I don't know.
Then the answer is NGMI.
Well, yes.
Or that somebody who does have that flexibility, somebody who has a vision for that looks at that and says,
I could totally see how this works like long term, right?
Sure.
But that is a big engine.
Like, that task there, that's a huge engineering thing.
For sure.
No, I'm trivial on that.
Like, it is, not really.
That's really hot.
Here's another example.
Awesome wasm is happening today and tomorrow, right?
Because we're not there.
But who's doing the ticketing?
OmniFlix does the ticketing, right?
And they did the same thing, I think, for Cosmo versus last year, right?
I didn't know that.
That's really cool.
So OmniFlix does the ticketing for that.
So you buy a ticket.
It's an NFT, blah, blah, blah.
It's a QR code, the whole thing.
Like, they run that whole thing.
That's fucking awesome.
Like, that's a great use case.
And we talked about ticketing as a great Web3 use case, because it's like a really good
use case of proving ownership and proving identity, number one, and number two.
And then being able to do transfers and all that stuff.
Like, it's a really good Web3 use case that they're executing on.
If you search, like, everybody, like, go search for Web, like, go search for, like,
ticketmaster competitors and tell me if OmniFlix shows up anywhere there.
Right?
Like, like, how do you do that?
That's a difficult one.
There's a ticketing platform on Ethereum.
They're doing a pretty good job of marketing.
And, like, if OmniFlix have that product and it's functional and comparable, you know,
that's something they should market.
And that's something that you don't need a huge build out of a CDN and everything in
an app to be able to do.
Like, that's well within their wheelhouse to be able to make a good UX on that type of
product.
And maybe they won't like, I mean, can you compete and beat Ticketmaster at this?
I mean, fuck, probably not.
But can you?
No, like you can, because, you know, there's, there might be a industry whale, right?
But it doesn't mean they're not beatable.
It just means that you need to fucking muscle your way in there.
So what makes Ticketmaster successful is partnerships and agreements, right?
So you have to stop thinking about this product as a decentralized thing that's just going
to happen.
And you need to start thinking about it as a project that you need to aggressively market
and form partnerships with IRL companies.
To evangelize.
And yeah, you need to take your product and fucking stick it where it needs to be used
and talk to the people who need to use it and make an agreement with them that's more,
you know, that's competitive with the industry stalwarts.
You can't just be like, we've got the thing, come use it.
Not denying that.
I agree.
It's just, it's a, it's a, that is a hard road, right?
When you have, when you have an organization that might have agreements with every single
property owner in this country for an event venue that might own multiple venues, which
means that you're, and those agreements might be five, 10 years in length, right?
Like, I totally agree with you in that fair market type situation.
I'm just saying, like, some of these things are, you're working so negative, but again,
that's have to start with like.
They do have one thing going for them, right?
Which is the typically like large incumbents like Ticketmaster, they buy their competitors,
right?
And that's how they stay the incumbent, right?
And in the, in a lot of cases where these incumbents are like, why does every fucking company in
the world use Oracle MyHR even though it's the worst piece of shit in the universe?
Because they buy all their competitors, right?
So there's no alternative MyHR, right?
I worked for a large cooperative ones and I was, I was like, Hey, look, if you want to
IQ 9000 play, build an alternative to MyHR, like, like re, re, re, reca, re-restruct,
re-structure yourselves as a software company, build a competitor to MyHR.
Oracle can't buy you.
And Oracle know they can't compete with you, which is why they would try and buy you.
But you are a cooperative, so you are not purchasable in the traditional sense.
So you could just take that market, you could take a significant chunk of that market if
you executed well, because everybody hates MyHR.
Your big problem is it's going to take five years for people's commercial agreements with
Oracle to run out.
And you're going to have a hard sales road.
But hey, good news, you're a cooperative.
You don't answer to shareholders.
You can literally wait out that time as long as you keep the costs under control and you
have that roadmap in place for how you're going to do the sales.
You need to really think about this as a sales process.
Obviously, this was literally me spitballing in the fucking, in the cafeteria.
Like it never went anywhere.
There's no, no business leader would have the vision to, to bank millions of pounds on this
suggestion.
I am right, by the way, that this would have 100.
I reckon, I reckon literally you want, you want a two million pound idea, a two billion
pound idea.
Sorry.
There it is, which is that a major cooperative should reconfigure themselves as a software
cooperative and compete with MyHR.
There you go.
It's free.
It's just on this podcast.
Thanks for listening to Game of Nodes.
Don't forget like and subscribe.
But ticketing is a really good example where you don't, it's like a similar thing from
a different approach, which is it's a direct consumer use case.
Yes.
Where Shorthy's rugging us.
Enjoy your tree cutting.
Yep.
See you folks.
Have fun.
We're because it's direct to consumer.
Actually, the, the, the model that you, that maybe is most relevant to a chain in that
space or a product in this space is not that it's decentralized.
I think that's garbage anywhere.
I don't think, what is the definition decentralized in our current market anyway, whatever, but
maybe it's more like a consumer cooperative whereby holding the token.
Yeah, you are an owner.
You know, what is, what is literally number one of the cooperative principles.
Member economic participation.
And then, and then if you think about it, it's like, okay, this is actually a ticketing cooperative
that won't be bought out or intimidated by a ticketmaster.
And once then go as a cooperative with some spokespeople and negotiate with the venues
to say, hey, you also need to work with us too.
We have a million members in four different countries, 40 different countries, 100 different
countries, whatever.
And then that narrative is a lot more understandable, I think, to a traditional business venture.
People know what cooperatives are.
People know what those kind of organizational structures are.
If you just go, you know, a bunch of nerds on the internet is the Sadao, is a venue going to take you seriously?
It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's how you communicate that those venues that are bricks
and mortar that run a very traditional business model, but the, you know, ticketing doesn't
have those venues, they're the key to the whole party, right?
How should people in a very legacy industry treat you in a very new industry, like you're not a joke
given that a lot of people in our industry are a joke?
How do you bridge that gap?
Right?
It's all, it's all communication.
It's not the tech, all that stuff.
I think like, like anything else has to start small and it works up.
So you start with smaller venues, you start with stuff like this, you get involved in other types of groups that put together events
and you start working it in small areas, not made out of venue perspective, but more of a platform that people use to get together.
And you find ways that, that software moves forward and forward and you build up, you don't take, you don't try to take over, you know, a massive event or a venue with that.
You have to start with years and years of smaller events and keep growing and keep growing.
It has to start with a set of, with a, with marketing, I mean, that's a product.
I mean, that is a product company, right?
That's a company itself, much less what everything else at OmniFlix is trying to do.
Like that ticketing piece, that's a product that could get funded, that could have its own marketing and name and everything else.
And it's blah, blah, blah, like there's a whole thing there.
But again, are you building a product or are you building tools for people to be able to use?
And those are two different strategies, I think, right?
So, I mean, it's a tool that anybody can use and OmniFlix built it and it works great and it's run by Web3.
And there's a, I mean, to be able to say that, I mean, the idea of having a ticketing thing is pretty cool.
But the proof of either having tickets to an event or viewing an event or other types of things, like there's a, you can extend that out to a lot of other use cases too.
So, but again, that's a whole product business in itself that I think you could go fund and try to build a whole organization around.
But again, I don't know how, does somebody doing that or is it just a tool set that's out there?
I don't know.
I built an event system once for a contract, so I could do it again, but...
There you go.
There you go, bud.
Events on Twitter.
You should do it on the Twitter.
Yeah, well, yeah, but if we're going for like, yeah, things that we built once but could build again, we've got ticketing system, we've got a lot of...
A long and set list.
Yeah, I worked on a WhatsApp competitor once, so you know, like WhatsApp on the blockchain, we could do that.
Except we can't because blockchain's way too slow, but then you shouldn't put your data on the blockchain anyway.
It's really bad use case for that.
But economic system, like, so it's basically, whatever, you know, fuck it.
Fuck it.
Hey.
Fuck it.
The problem is...
Is this a very negative episode?
I feel like it's a little bit negative.
Are we negative?
Or is it just...
I think I was looking back, like, we've got to episode 70.
That's kind of cool.
It is cool.
But I am kind of aware that we are a full year on from when we really started having...
Because we got over the shock of Luna and I think we'd really started having the, oh shit, this is a bear, it's going to be around for a long time.
Conversations on the poddo.
It really has been a year.
So it's...
Yeah, maybe there's a bit of that energy in the air.
I don't know.
For what it's worth, I feel fucking pretty alright.
Because I'm fucking taking a holiday tomorrow.
So we're working 14-hour days to clear the fucking decks and set up all the monitoring.
And...
Exciting.
It's going to be fucking great.
I am pretty excited to touch some grass in September.
With a...
That's too long away, sir.
Six-day fucking hiking trek in the mountains of Tasmania.
God, it's Tasmania.
I've been there once.
I like that.
Carry your house on your back.
Eat more.
Sounds worse when you say it like that.
Oh yeah, I guess you've got to wait a bit.
Because it's presumably really fucking cold right now.
Yeah, I think September it's still cold.
It's not as snowy.
We actually just bought snow shoes from fucking Spain of all places.
Because we intend to do some war.
You know there's a lot of mountains in Spain, right?
Spain?
Yeah, it's just that buying snow shoes in Spain.
And I think that it is potentially...
Well, it must be off season now, right?
It's fucking Spain right now.
Yes.
So when you're looking at...
We looked at the local stores in Melbourne.
And it was like 500 kangabugs to buy a pair of snow shoes, right?
It's fucking insane.
And then...
Wait, 500 kangabugs.
That's like still $300?
I don't know man, I don't work in freedom bucks.
Well, the rest of the world and all of crypto does.
So to buy them and ship the fucking things to Australia from Spain was like 200 bucks.
Jesus.
How special are these boots?
Exactly the same fucking things.
Well, they're like, you know, they're things you walk on fucking snow with.
So I don't know.
You don't have any of those there?
I think you said there was some snow there.
Yeah, there is.
So they've got boots in the shop.
They're just fucking insanely expensive.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So we bought them in Spain less than half the price.
Only took like a week to get here.
So...
What's that about?
Anyway, the point is we bought them.
And so we're going to go do a hiking and camping in the snow around the Alps here, around Melbourne.
And then we're also going to do some back country snowboarding.
So that'll be interesting.
Back country snowboarding.
Yeah.
Yeah, you stick your snowboard on your back, you fucking walk up the hill and then you ride your snowboard back down.
That's cool.
Yeah.
I think like the proper way to do it is with a split board.
You like actually split it in half and put the...
Is that called skis?
...skins on them.
So you just fucking up the hill.
Oh, okay.
I got you.
I didn't really realize you could do that with anything other than telemarked skis, but...
Yeah, they got like special bindings, which you're... is attached around your toes.
So your heel lifts and then you just kick your skis up the hill or your snowboard.
So it's exactly like back country skiing because you just...
Yeah, so a telemark.
...snap your board in half.
That's telemarked skis, but weirdly for a snowboard.
Yeah, so your snowboard's got a joint down the guts of it and it's like...
But I'm sure it's got two different bindings because the snowboard bindings are like there and there, whereas the telemark...
Yeah, so you...
You clip your bindings off the way you're using them for cross country and then you clip them back on to use them as a snowboard.
Will that get enough perch?
Oh, I guess, yeah, because they kind of go around the bottom, don't they, for telemark?
They put the gut clip, don't they?
The gut?
Yeah, it used to be animal gut or something, didn't it?
You know the thing that you put around the bottom of the ski when you're going uphill, where it's like...
Yeah, the skins, you put them on and they grip backwards.
So every time you put the thing down, it catches like a claw, like a spike, like a barb, a barb.
The word I'm looking for is barb, barb.
You know, like you'd have a barb, so it's unidirectional.
You know, like some mammals have like a barb penis.
Just a shoe form.
It's just...
I've been working really long days to get my shit together.
So whatever.
It's like an animal's penis, but on your feet.
It's like an animal's penis, but on your feet, yeah.
You know what? Why not? Let's go with that.
Why not?
I too am going hiking, but not in the snow, in the sunshine.
Is that like something you do often?
We do it all the time. I fucking love hiking.
It is something that my other half, my better half's family do more of, and she is a big proponent of.
But I think the hills and mountains in the UK are a bit boring and small.
So you've got insane fucking mountains in Europe just across the way.
So that is where I am going, is to go to the French Alps where they have Billy Big Bull's mountains.
Did you get a little infant backpack thing?
Yeah, baby strats.
Oh, on the front.
Rucky on the back. So I already did. We went to a conference.
This is probably too small still for the back, actually.
Yeah, we went to it. He's still got to go on the front.
Went to a conference with the lads from Artifact and obviously met Earthman as well from Lavi.
Lavi Sanko and did that trip as well.
Ben on the front, Dag on the back, Barlman in my hand, you know, Classico.
So doing that again tomorrow.
It's gonna be interesting.
Like, you've got some time off.
I guess you're gonna stay at home, right?
Because you've got the small one and I'm like, no, I'm gonna travel 1100 miles tomorrow.
And they're like, oh, right, you flying.
Okay, that's, you know, there can be a point of pain on the plane that age.
And I'm like, no, mate, getting four trains across two countries.
A train on the sea.
And I'm gonna be carrying him.
And people are like, are you, how are you carrying the buggy?
And you're like, I don't own a buggy, mate.
I am the buggy.
I am.
I am the buggy now.
I am the buggy.
I am the saddle.
So the way I like to think about this is, you know, the old cavalry thing where it's like the horse, the saddle, the man.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
I'm the fucking horse now.
I am the horse.
You are the horse.
Finally.
Yes.
Finally in life, I have.
You are.
Eventually they will be the horse, but right now you are the horse.
Yes, that's correct.
You are the donkey.
You're the donkey.
Okay, but right now I am the most important piece of logistical equipment in the pyramid
and will be respected as such.
I mean, you're creating a situation where you are the most important piece in the pyramid,
but yes, that's correct.
I mean, ultimately you're now the most important piece in the pyramid.
But yes, the system is rigged.
Then of course, if there's one thing I've learned from crypto is yes, the system is rigged,
but you need to rig it in your favor.
Actually, one thing when the little man does get older, we had like those, the backpack
ones where he could sit, where he could sit like up here.
So they backpack, but like his ass is like right at your bottom of your shoulder.
Minimum heights.
Yeah.
He's like, I think, I mean, you get strapped in there pretty good.
I would say probably 18 months, maybe two years, something like that.
I'm hoping next year we'll be there, but then I'm going to get my shit over.
Oh, there's a bag.
Well, sure.
At the moment, I've got like, I've got like, because I'm carrying a bunch of other shit.
I'm carrying.
Well, you could put that in your front, but like, but when he gets older, he's not going
to want to sit facing you and he's going to be like, right?
Or you have one where they spin around where he's like underneath you, but facing up.
The last trip I did it where he was in, you know, looking at one, but facing out.
Yeah.
And this one, hoping to get him to sleep more.
So actually, they face a man.
Yeah.
In one of those, you know, ones with the almost like, you know, the mummy hood where it's like.
Yeah.
But the backpack ones are a ton of fun.
Like those, we had, we, I shit, we sold it like a bunch of years ago, but we did tons
of hikes with those things.
And like, I even had two kids stacked in there at one time just to get on a horrible hill.
But, but like they loved it.
They're extremely comfortable.
And then it's like the weights off you.
And you want to go like, if you're going hiking, you have both hands for you and they're not
in front of you.
So, and you can even if you fell forward or something like that, it's not like, you know,
there's less danger there and those types of things.
But yeah, highly recommend it.
That's in my future.
Yeah.
Highly recommended.
Yeah.
Gonna have to work on the logistics of that one.
So anyway, whatever my exciting fucking holiday trains involved, there will be train chat
when I get back after a miss next week's show.
Hey, so we didn't talk about awesome wisdom at all.
Yeah, it was supposed to be awesome.
Yes, today and today.
And I was gonna, I was gonna join from, from hip and happening Berlin.
What happened?
But the, at the moment, I kind of have a day job.
So it just like the logistics of I like, I like money.
And it looked pretty good.
There's a lot of people there.
I saw the busy.
I was kind of bummed out.
And we had, we had, I had a few people messaging being like, at the game of nerds boys, going
to be awesome.
Okay.
A couple of people.
I didn't hear about until today.
So no friends of the show were like, are you, you guys actually here?
And I was like, sorry, we're not here.
But maybe we can get friend of the show that is there.
I think off top of my head, I know that Spoo, I'm just gonna dox a bunch of people there.
So I think Spoo's there.
Heart now it's there.
Jake's there.
Shane's there.
Yeah.
Son is there.
I mean, you can find without me next week, you could just do a fucking mega chads episode.
Do a run down, break it down.
Break it down.
Dude, get the straight dope from good idea from Berlin.
There probably is a straight dope probably is a drug smuggling hotspot.
Actually.
So that's maybe not the correct.
Yeah.
It would, it would really make it.
I wouldn't surprise it because you think about the geographical location of Berlin.
As you know, wait, Rotterdam is the big one, isn't it?
Is it Rotterdam?
That's the big one for drugs?
Rotterdam and Antwerp are the big ones for drugs.
I don't know.
Could be.
Yeah.
I think so.
Anyway, I've just realized we haven't yet done the draw tweet the week.
So good timing.
Oh, we forget.
Excellent.
The section is the boys.
Okay.
Me and some extremely crude boys in a pickup truck scream hipster at some kids lemonade stand,
then crash into a turtle and eat shit hard.
Turtle.
Yeah.
The turtle, I didn't see the turtle coming.
And neither did they, I think, which is the story.
I thought we got rid of the surprise.
There's, I mean, there's, there's just every.
Why do we keep doing this?
Coming back from war.
So were you talking about the drill tweets?
Overall, we're talking about.
Drinking always touch an awkward moment like there's at least a minute of silence afterwards
where there is trying to contemplate or just happened.
What the fuck just happened?
Wow.
Just happened.
What happened?
We're just hanging out here.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
So it's good to just, to just, you know, introduce a bit of, in a bit of awkward silence into
the conversation.
So yeah, in conclusion, baby carriers stock riding high.
Currently every chain we validate on stock, not riding so high, but that's, that's also
good.
I mean, obviously other than like apps, they're still doing pretty well.
So, you know, can't complain.
Can't complain.
Can complain.
I've been, I've been fighting with, uh, been setting up a bunch of nodes for other networks.
So this week I've worked on optimism, avalanche, polygon, arbitrum.
What are you setting up nodes there for?
Despite the fact that optimism is not actually that bad a network.
The fact is called optimism every time I say it, I'm just like, hope you.
It's all hope you.
Optimism.
Yeah.
I mean, they're all very, they're not all that straightforward and they don't really
prune and so they're a bit unwieldy.
Um, like for instance, like polygon has both a tendermint chain and EVM chain or like,
which I didn't really recognize before I really got into it.
And the tenement chain, like there was like, you can, I think they have some default structure.
Like it's really, it's extremely modified.
But I think the, the, I think the chain there's like 300 gigs or something like that to be
able to get going on the EVM side that, that, that, um, which, which is, I said this morning
I, I fat fingered a fucking command and fucked up 40 hours of, of work.
And that, that thing that I did is that there is a 1.5 terabyte snapshot.
Um, and that 1.5 terabyte snapshot comes down and then gets extracted to like 8 million
fucking files at like three, three and a half, four terabytes or something like that.
And I thought it was doing a, I have a script that runs that basically pulls that down and
extracts it on the stuff.
Shit, I thought it was just doing a Shaw check on the files before it extract and I accidentally
I meant to hit a key command that I used to jump between screens and I hit command C and it killed it.
And so I had to go back and like the extraction itself is a 12 hour job.
Like just a, I'm fucking do two terabytes or three terabytes of fucking shit.
So anyway, I don't know all that stuff is, it's all history, right?
So what you're saying is if you hadn't scripted it, but you were copy and pasting individual commands,
it might have actually been quicker.
I really set out, I was looking at it.
I was like, why the fuck is this doing this?
And then I was going to jump into the screen and look at it and I fucked it up and then that was it.
So now I had to restart it.
Now it's extracting again.
So you are trying to join these other networks as well.
No, this one, uh, these are, um, uh, we're a chain link operator.
Yeah.
So chain link things.
So, so, uh, chain link is launching it for folks to know that there's a, they're launching
something called CCIP, which is basically a chain link, a bridge between networks that
is going to get, it's got picked up by Swift and a couple other, couple other ones, which
looks very positive.
And we're not a CCIP member.
We're not running the bridge, but we're running a structure that allows for the...