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I don't know. We haven't seen like major names disappear yet, but.

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Welcome to Game of Notes, a weekly podcast on the cosmos from independent

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validator teams.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to Game of Notes, the podcast about the cosmos.

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Hosted by individual validators.

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Thank you very much.

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I missed 68 episodes.

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I don't have the words in front of me.

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So welcome to the potty.

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We were just musing about what in the hell we're going to talk about today,

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because it has been pretty done quiet on most fronts.

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And yeah, so I guess, guys, we were talking about potentially

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it being quiet enough and people bleeding cash for long enough

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that maybe people are starting to leave.

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It's it's pretty quiet out there.

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The the discords are fucking ghost towns.

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Yeah. The I don't have Twitter.

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I deleted it. So I don't know what's going on over there.

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Ah, yeah, man. I really good for you.

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I for I like for what for?

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Can you know they're for normal?

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I still have the accounts.

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I only post if I need to go in there and post and then get the fuck out

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because reading Twitter for me is like pretty depressing these days.

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Yeah, I have a habit of just like walking away from things that I don't like.

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So yeah, yeah, yeah, I decided back in 2010 that I didn't like the news.

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So I ripped the antenna off my house and I haven't watched three to wear TV since.

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You're not missing much there.

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Now, I do the same thing.

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Like if I get pinged on something, maybe I'll check in.

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But like if I go back and just like scroll through,

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I'm instantly turned off in like two seconds. So well, I found that

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while I was at the gym, I was scrolling through Twitter in between sets

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and it was making me angry.

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So I had the app.

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Yeah, I mean, granted, it was particular people that were making me angry.

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But, you know, as a whole, it didn't seem to be healthy for the old noggin.

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So I said, ah, fuck it. Let's get let's get rid of this.

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Yeah, there's some that still follow like a lot.

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Like I still get like for some reason I have golden ratio.

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Like I love that guy's Twitter account.

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It always it always makes me laugh.

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And like, I think that this commentary is like right on.

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And so I he's I only get pinged on a few different few different things.

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So he's always one I get pinged on just because it always makes me laugh.

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But yeah, but you got to stay away from the side of it.

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You just have to stay away from the just the constant shit show.

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Yeah, I mean, I always go ahead.

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Well, I always tried to like avoid blocking and muting people as well.

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Like so you'd have the full picture.

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But then I realized that there's just so many fucking knobs out there

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that are just being knobs for engagement and ruining my day at the same time.

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So yeah, I mean, yeah.

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Just get out of the room, I guess, and then go out and get fresh air

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and and spend more time doing work.

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My my favorite Twitter to follow is the lady that did

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it, but does what is it? Web three is going great.

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Yeah, there it is. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

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I Molly White Molly White.

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I follow her and I think she has I don't entirely agree with her, obviously,

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because, you know, I run a validator, but I think that she has very acute observations.

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She does that for me.

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It's like she gets 90 percent of the way there.

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And I'm like that last 10 percent.

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She just kind of doesn't quite sell it on for me.

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But right. Yeah, Reese says I only have no block to my stomach.

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It's somewhat true. Yeah. Oh, shit.

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We've got a we've got a celebrity in the house.

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You know, slow.

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Yeah, that website's great.

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I'll put it like the shelves for folks who don't know it,

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but it is a bit depressing.

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I will say that.

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But if you Google like Web three is going great, there's it's just basically

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just news about, you know, not the not the positive side of this.

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Oh, yeah. Is it is it set to Iro?

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No, oh, it's no.

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It just calls out like like either breaches,

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things going out of business scams like all basic.

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The Web three is going great.

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That part, that title definitely starts.

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That's that part's definitely sarcasm, but it's good site.

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Couple of things for it are finance order to halt operations in Belgium.

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That talks about a little bit.

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One point two five million stolen in two months in polygon and fishing scheme.

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Prime trust halts withdrawals as acquisition falls through and then

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it's just put into a receivership.

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So it's like a lot of it is actual things that are going on that show that Web three is like.

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It's worth to do.

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Bookmarking.

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This is I like the way they've got to light out like a like a little time one.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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And that little total in the bottom of a total dollars lost about.

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0.642 billion at this point.

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Yeah. I think it's a lot lower than it should be.

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I wonder if that includes Mt.

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Gulks, I don't know how far back it's not that.

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I mean, it's only a couple of years. Right.

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Yeah. Isn't that bad?

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But you can you can also search like you can you could focus it down just to Cosmos if you want,

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which is pretty cool.

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So you can throw it up.

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Oh, I didn't know you could do that.

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Yeah, it's under blocking.

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It's not that it's actually not that much under there because.

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Because cosmos is one chain.

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No, I think it's ecosystem ecosystem.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Monero holders plan a bank run. What?

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Terra accidentally transfers 36 million of incised funds to inaccessible wallet.

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Yeah. Right.

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It's just it's just a yeah.

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They get to have it under the news.

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Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, it's worthy.

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This is yeah, I stopped.

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I stopped watching this actually.

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It gets to be a little bit too much.

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Oh, God. Too funny.

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Uh, yeah.

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So on the on the plus side, though, there is there is some pretty promising.

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Well, I mean, bigger type networks, I guess, coming to and test netting

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in the cosmos at the moment.

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Like who know who you saying who's testing coming up?

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Well, Alio is talked about.

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Alio. There's like Diddy X or something like that.

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Diddy X.

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Alio and Diddy.

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Alio, Alio, Alio, Alio.

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Alio.

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Alio. I don't know how to pronounce it.

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I I have a habit of pronouncing things wrong.

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I've noticed I'm I'm getting corrected a lot.

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You put the process on the on the wrong syllable.

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Yeah, definitely.

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I'm fastest on the wrong syllables. Mm hmm.

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Well, saying that say, say, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

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Yeah. Alio isn't cosmos.

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No, that's that's that's Evian.

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Yeah. It's a new L01.

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Is it L1? Yeah.

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Oh, yeah, that's right.

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It is. It's not tenor.

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It based. Yeah. Yeah.

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It's different.

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Alio.

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Alio.

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Alio.

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Pronounced with a long M.

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Thanks, funky.

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So that that Diddy X one is, I guess,

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testing very soon or has tested it, right?

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That's so that's just moving across

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because they're getting moving to their own

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tenor base chain.

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That's pretty cool.

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Launched last night, I believe.

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And it already has some some big players in there.

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The big names and some small ones in the couple.

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Most of the ones people know about.

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The ones with Twitter accounts and shit.

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Yeah, that's pretty cool.

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So then what else is going on?

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Oh, man, you know what?

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Like, I haven't really been keeping up with

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all of the test nets that I mean,

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you know, I saw a poker to mentioned one the other day

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that was a newie.

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If I can find to the dang chat.

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So to to to.

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No, no idea.

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Yeah.

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Well, what else we talk about?

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So tenant is tenor, mid based,

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but an EBM compatible chain that that's gone to test net

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recently just in the last few weeks,

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maybe a month, a little bit more than that.

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Obviously, we talked about LAO that that's L1

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on the VM side.

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DYDX just launched her test net.

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That's pretty exciting, actually.

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Say he's been in test net for obviously a long time, right?

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But we hear that there's rum links about maybe getting closer

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to some sort of thing that may resemble main net

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at some point in the year in 2023, we hope.

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Yeah, it's time for an announcement.

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There's a lot.

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I mean, that's two major.

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I mean, both say and DYDX is two major exchanges launching

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with tenor mid based chains in one year, which is,

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which is maybe not great for both of them,

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but but still good for the ecosystem

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and good for the technology.

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So.

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So it is.

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It's two big boys and they're both like in the same category,

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I would say, like pretty, pretty firmly in the same category.

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Even like even maybe in the same category as,

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injective as well.

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So that could be an interesting shake up.

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Hey, it might just bring more attention to that, you know.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And yeah.

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DYDX is also bringing, I mean, they're,

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they're replatforming.

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So they're bringing across a pretty massive user base, right?

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Where say is say is basically launching fresh.

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So they're trying to attract projects and other types of things

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that be able to take advantage of that.

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So, I mean, it is pretty exciting with DYDX

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because there's now native US,

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native US DC through noble,

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which they can IDC directly to,

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and they've already got a massive, massive user base.

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So, and they're going to expose all of those users through IDC.

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Then immediately they'll be IDC with noble anyway for US DC.

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Is say doing that, I would assume, right?

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I'm not sure.

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I don't know how that works.

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I mean, obviously it's IDC.

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I mean, obviously they can IDC no different than anything else.

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Just don't know how it would be,

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if it would, what the UI would be on, within the app for that.

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Yeah. Well, I mean, they're,

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I'd say don't have their own UI, right?

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It's all like launch partners.

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So I guess anyone can implement it.

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It's permissionless wasm.

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So anyone can start a protocol, but sorry,

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I just stopped while I was thinking there

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because anyone can open IBC channels anyway, right?

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The IBC channels aren't permissioned.

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So it's easy enough to do.

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Right. And the other thing to think about,

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and I'm not sure, like, I think this has buzzed past a lot of people,

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but Kava is, did I say that right?

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Kava? Kava? Kava?

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Kava. Kava. Kava.

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Kava is being native USDT.

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So that's going to be launching.

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I think like in the first week of July.

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It's also a hell of a thing to do.

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Like to choose Kava over basically anything else is just outrageous to me.

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Yeah. I love to hear the backstory on that, right?

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Like, they must have, how did that,

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do they put off that to bid or something?

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Or like, are they, like, how did that work in terms of USDT

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actually selecting a, a IBC-enabled chain in the cosmos?

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And anybody know?

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Like that would be, that would be curious what that story looks like.

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Because I agree. Like, out of nowhere, right?

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It seems like it probably went like this.

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The Kava Foundation went to USDT people.

253
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,800
Hey, do you know USDCs coming to cosmos?

254
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,840
Natively, do you want to do the same? Hey, we've got a chain.

255
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,080
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it was proactive, right?

256
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,040
We should make blocks.

257
00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:59,840
Right.

258
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,000
And they're like, to be fair, they are one of the higher cosmos chains up there.

259
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,960
They're like, what, a hundred or something versus, you know, secret,

260
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,640
like 250, I think. For TVL, you mean?

261
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,400
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

262
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,280
I guess that's kind of a,

263
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,600
I'd be interested in what the IBC numbers are with that.

264
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,920
But is that just a benefit of being early?

265
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:22,520
A bit? I don't know.

266
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,240
I'd say it's like, injectives above it.

267
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,680
So you think injective might be better, but, you know, whatever.

268
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,600
Yeah.

269
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,240
I don't know. I wonder how many active users are on Kava.

270
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,160
It just comes up so infrequently with other validators that we talk to.

271
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,840
But that happens out of a bunch of cosmos chains, right?

272
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,960
Like it's kind of like different ecosystems within the ecosystem type of idea.

273
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,080
Like MediBlock has a pretty decent TVL,

274
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,760
well, not TVL, what is it?

275
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:52,880
Market cap.

276
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,840
And it's it's not very heard of.

277
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,040
So can you guys hear me all right?

278
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,440
My microphone is like further away than what it usually is.

279
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,320
Yeah, it's fine.

280
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,800
Well, you have an answer voice on because you're in the you're in the upper left.

281
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,520
So that makes a big difference.

282
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,520
That activates a Nouns of Voice.

283
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,000
It does. It does, I think when you're in the upper left, you have to.

284
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,200
Yeah, damn, you got to step up.

285
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:13,680
Come on from the closet.

286
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,680
I do it for the ladies.

287
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,920
Yeah.

288
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,680
So like to me, though, you know, maybe, I don't know,

289
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:29,240
I would have thought something more like injective would have been a better place

290
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,160
or maybe even jam it on noble with the USTC.

291
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,280
At least at least for your ex, you're in one basket then.

292
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,000
Nothing could possibly go wrong.

293
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,040
I'm sure it'd be fine. Yeah, it was surprising.

294
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,880
Like, I'm glad. I mean, again, we've always talked about the

295
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,760
the importance of like native stablecoins and the seaco system to actually have

296
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,960
something as a way to encourage growth.

297
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,600
And so having both one native as a chain and one come in, however,

298
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,640
it's happening through Kva, I think is a positive thing.

299
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,120
So, you know, we can't no matter how they get here, I think it doesn't have to be set in stone.

300
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,520
That's to be the only way that that USDT shows up here as well.

301
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,560
So but but the idea that you have some stable showing up here,

302
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,360
I think that's that's positive.

303
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,240
Right. Can't can't complain about that.

304
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,440
It's funny that if you go back like maybe five or six years

305
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,800
and mentioned stablecoins, they're all like, you know, they're

306
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,400
everyone hated stables, especially USDT, like everyone.

307
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,920
The the the the line was about the auditing.

308
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,600
And, you know, that they're just going to fold and steal all your money.

309
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,560
And same with USDC in audits.

310
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,480
And the sentiment around stablecoins,

311
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,840
although everybody used them, the sentiment around them was like, not great.

312
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,240
And now we're all like sitting here fucking begging for them.

313
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,320
No, don't give me wrong.

314
00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,920
I still think they could fold and take all our money.

315
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:05,400
Like that risk is still there, but our bar is much lower now in terms of

316
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,560
in terms of desire.

317
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,520
So I think it's it is what it is.

318
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,400
But yeah, it was the previous USDC.

319
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:12,600
Sorry, go ahead.

320
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:13,440
No, go ahead.

321
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,080
So after the previous USDC, deep-paking for, you know, the weekend,

322
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,840
it puts such a different light on USDT.

323
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,320
I had USDC and I ended up selling a bit of it at like 97 cents.

324
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,720
Because like I've already lost out on Terra.

325
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,080
Like I'm not I'm not taking this again.

326
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,640
Yeah. So like even at a three percent three percent loss,

327
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,560
like there was no question that I was selling it.

328
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:37,240
So got rid of it.

329
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,040
But Terra didn't or not Terra, Tether didn't Tether didn't deep-pag.

330
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,200
And that's such an interesting thing that like we were we, the greater we

331
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,720
like have this idea that because USDC was like somewhat backed by like banks

332
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,120
more officially, but that also means it's it's it's super

333
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,720
like taking out the knees because of it.

334
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,000
Yeah. Maybe maybe that's a little bit too dramatic.

335
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,280
But it put a different light on on USDT for me.

336
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:02,840
Yep. Yeah.

337
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,280
Well, yeah, I think I think the the deep-paggings

338
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,240
are like more a function of the AMMs.

339
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,880
So like USDC has deep-pagged a bunch of times and so is USDT.

340
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:24,640
And it's mostly because I think like when you get like USDC

341
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,000
was trading above a dollar when everyone was freaking out

342
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,960
a couple of weeks ago with the SEC crap when everybody was like selling

343
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,360
their shit into stablecoins.

344
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,360
And I guess like fast forward a week or so, then we're going the other way.

345
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,760
Everyone's like selling off the USDC to get back in.

346
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,840
So if you do that in a in a like CEX, then I think the mechanisms

347
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,240
work a little bit better there to keep it pegged at a dollar.

348
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:58,880
Because of the speed of those speed of those databases and all the arbitrage

349
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,280
arbitrage in there and market makers.

350
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,040
So I mean, it may like if you're if you're savvy and can program,

351
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,880
it makes sense just to sit there and take all of the action

352
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,480
where a coin is not at its proper value.

353
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:18,840
So like I would if if I if I if I if I if I if I if I if I if I if I

354
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:24,440
if I had the time and the know how I would make a bot and buy it up

355
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,480
anywhere it was outside a dollar and then sell it off any time it was above a dollar.

356
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,480
Because it makes sense.

357
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,000
It's a stablecoin, right?

358
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,040
And that's a pretty easy like in the one ecosystem.

359
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,040
You can do that.

360
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:43,840
But because of AMMs, I think that that's like unless you've got

361
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:49,240
some pretty effective MEV, then they can like temporarily DPEG.

362
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:56,040
And I guess that proliferates through to like coin get going in that type of stuff as well.

363
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,240
So what do you mean proliferates through?

364
00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,840
That's probably the wrong word.

365
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:06,240
Like filters through like if it's yeah, propagates through the databases up to just

366
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,240
to showing that.

367
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,040
Yeah, like chose that.

368
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,040
Yeah.

369
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,600
But if you look at the history of the

370
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,400
But if you look at the history of I might just do it now.

371
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,400
Have a look at coin get go and look at the history of USDC.

372
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,400
It's going to be all over the place.

373
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,400
You know, I just checked and it's not as over the places you'd expect.

374
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:33,800
It doesn't really show like USDC went down to I think 89 cents and it's not showing that anymore.

375
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,000
It shows 96 cents.

376
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,400
So it might be it might be at the granularity too.

377
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:45,800
Because I think I remember that that tool set also depending on what the time frame is, it'll it rounds things off pretty hard.

378
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,000
So if it went down to 89 for like, you know, half a day or something, I might just actually just average it out to whatever.

379
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,400
Yeah, that's what it seems like it did.

380
00:18:52,400 --> 00:19:00,200
But yeah, during that day when it was in the 80s, it didn't feel like, you know, 96 and a half cents, which is right.

381
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,200
Like the biggest that had ever reached.

382
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,800
So even in March, it definitely had a fucking stumble this year.

383
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:12,600
Yeah, the March was whenever it went down to 89 cents or 88 cents.

384
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:22,400
Yeah, so if you can tighten it up to that time frame in the little bar down the bottom and you can see there's definitely like for whatever reason, there was a shit load of volume around that time.

385
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:29,200
So well, that was whenever SVB went down Silicon Valley Bank and so people were freaking out and they're trying to get out.

386
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,800
And then we realized that like we couldn't redeem USDC right now.

387
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,400
Like Coinbase had closed it, so that kind of became a vessel, I suppose.

388
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,200
Man, that is low too.

389
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,600
That is 86 cents.

390
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,400
That's a big discount.

391
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,200
It went down to 86.

392
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,200
Oh, sorry.

393
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,400
Yeah, it looks about about 87.

394
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,800
I can't get right in that 89.

395
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,200
Hang on.

396
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,600
Let me tighten it up a bit more.

397
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,900
I gotta say, that's a that's a big balls blockchain move to buy USDC at 87 cents.

398
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:02,900
Yeah.

399
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,000
I did not have that in here.

400
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,000
Like in big volume too.

401
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,200
Like if you're like, I got a hundred thousand.

402
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,000
I got a half a million.

403
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,700
I'm gonna throw it in my bite USDC at 87.

404
00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:14,200
It got out to about 88.

405
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,300
87.8.

406
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:17,200
That's a big balls blockchain move right there.

407
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,400
You can do that.

408
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:25,800
I don't like the I don't like the the coin gecko interface and charting.

409
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,900
I don't know where the do you know the list?

410
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:30,500
What exchanges are pulling that from?

411
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:31,000
I don't know.

412
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,000
Yeah, absolutely.

413
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:32,700
Yeah.

414
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,000
If you scroll down, it shows you all the exchanges they're talking.

415
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,400
They are using.

416
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,500
And usually they would weight those as well because like we pull we we pulled coin gecko

417
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,400
prices for on the chain link side.

418
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,300
But but I know it's like a mix of different types of you know, different exchanges.

419
00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:52,000
I'm just curious because like there's from markets, right?

420
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,500
Well, no, there could be massive discrepancies between exchanges on some of these types of things.

421
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:57,000
Yes.

422
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,300
Depends on reserves are what the trading is and everything else like you could have a

423
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:05,300
wide wide wide gap between exchanges on on what for something like that.

424
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:08,500
So it looks like that's an interesting pool.

425
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:14,300
It looks like the biggest guy far is by an inch that they're pulling.

426
00:21:14,300 --> 00:21:16,900
Yeah, the biggest finance.

427
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:18,000
Yeah, it makes sense.

428
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,400
So it's the biggest buy bit.

429
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,900
And I think they must weight those somehow.

430
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,200
I don't know what the hook they do there, but they must weight that based on the volume

431
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:24,800
or something like that.

432
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,300
They actually get a reasonable price.

433
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:31,100
So if like if Kraken has 10, you know, 5% of the volume, but but the price moves much

434
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,000
farther, I'm guessing it's not equally weighted across everything else.

435
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,900
They must look at volume or something similar that I must admit, I've never heard of buy

436
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:41,700
bit and it's got the second highest volume and it's a lot of volume.

437
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:42,600
I have heard of that.

438
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,600
Isn't that I don't think we can use it here in the US.

439
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:53,200
Remember, actually, but the the biggest pool is the USD seed USDT pool.

440
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,500
Really trading pair.

441
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:55,000
Yeah.

442
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:55,700
Yeah.

443
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:58,000
Just fucking arbitrage all day on that shit.

444
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,500
Yeah, just up those minus 0.0001.

445
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:02,000
Yeah.

446
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:02,900
Yeah.

447
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:08,300
Um, well, I mean, yeah, that's well, yeah, I mean, what do you like if you are arbing

448
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:08,500
it?

449
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:09,600
What do you what do you have it with?

450
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,700
Like it's either going to be US dollars or some other stable, right?

451
00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:15,300
Yeah.

452
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:19,000
No, you're between those two and you're just you're just you're probably just yeah, you've

453
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,200
taken half a million dollars and throwing it back and forth between those two as a fluctuate

454
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,800
up and down and just trying to keep growing it.

455
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:31,400
Yeah, taking into account the maker and taker fee though, you'd have to have a pretty decent

456
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,100
spread.

457
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:32,800
You would?

458
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:33,200
Yeah.

459
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:33,900
Yeah.

460
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:37,000
Or you're on the exchange like, yeah, well, I know you have to be.

461
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:37,500
Yeah.

462
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:38,100
Good point.

463
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:38,600
I don't know.

464
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,600
So I'm not I'm not a code.

465
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:41,200
All right.

466
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:50,600
I wrote my own Arbot back in 2017 for shits and giggles in Python when I was just learning

467
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:57,200
how to use Python and it was fun, man, trying to like it was more fun working out how to

468
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,900
do it like effectively than actually like using it.

469
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:03,400
Yeah.

470
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:11,100
So there was like a bunch of problems back then and one of them was that like the stable

471
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:12,600
coins weren't so prolific, right?

472
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:18,900
And they weren't like in Australian exchanges specifically mostly.

473
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:19,500
Yeah.

474
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:27,900
And so when you're arbing, you would have to have like a pool of coins on both or a

475
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:32,400
bunch of exchanges that you wanted to arm between because at the moment at that time,

476
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,900
right, there was like a lot of by pressure coming from Australia with people trying to

477
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,500
get into the to the market, right?

478
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:44,700
And like they didn't have access to Binance.

479
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:47,400
They didn't have access to Kraken and everything back then.

480
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,700
It was only like a handful of exchanges in Australia.

481
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:56,700
Unless you like once you had gotten your fee out and then you could go and do like DGEN

482
00:23:56,700 --> 00:24:03,100
shit anonymously on other CXs where you just need an email address type thing.

483
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:08,100
But the Australian ones, yeah, there was the only entry point was through our exchanges

484
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:11,300
and they were expensive.

485
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:16,500
And so what you had to do if you wanted to arbit is you'd have to do Forex as well.

486
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:24,400
So you would have to like calculate risk based on, you know, sort of a range in Forex of

487
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,500
how much it could move over a couple of weeks historically or a couple of days or whatever

488
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:37,600
the it takes to actually do a Forex transfer from Australia to like a US bank account.

489
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:43,100
Getting a US bank account was the other thing or being able to like put in Australian dollars

490
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:52,300
into a US exchange or like a USD supported exchange or any other fucking exchange anywhere

491
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:53,300
else.

492
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:59,180
So then you had to like look at getting foreign bank accounts in Australia with USD currency

493
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:01,800
that could transfer to those.

494
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:08,500
A lot of banks were like blacklisting exchanges and any transfers to exchanges.

495
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:12,500
They were like debanking people as well.

496
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:18,780
But yeah, then it was like the other thing was the depth of pools.

497
00:25:18,780 --> 00:25:23,180
So you couldn't just take the headline value like the last traded, you would have to like

498
00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:29,820
look into the book and see like what kind of volume you could push up and down the book

499
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:34,180
before you lose your spread, which was kind of interesting as well.

500
00:25:34,180 --> 00:25:39,980
And like all these different factors in the end, like I never finished it and it was too

501
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:43,180
scary to press go on.

502
00:25:43,180 --> 00:25:50,380
But I did well, it was the Forex was too hard to reliably like there's too much risk in

503
00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:57,700
that time because it wasn't like sending sending a USDC from your wallet in the Australian

504
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:02,860
exchange over to like your own wallet and then into like Binance or something like that.

505
00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:07,140
It's like two days in the ether or three days in the ether while it's transferring over.

506
00:26:07,140 --> 00:26:12,940
So you got you got all this like Forex risk and at the same time, like during that period,

507
00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:17,980
you've got like the risk of your assets in these pools as well or like in this other

508
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:21,900
currency because you sort of have to hold both.

509
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:27,340
You have to buy in and sell out of both at the same time and then whichever ones are becoming

510
00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:32,500
depleted, you have to like send token over there or Fiat depending on what's getting

511
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:33,500
depleted.

512
00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:41,300
I actually wrote a bot in 2020 and did something like between four and eight million dollars

513
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:44,620
in volume over the course of about six months.

514
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:47,500
I made like $10,000 off of it.

515
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:53,980
So I was like, nah, and it was like many hundreds of thousands of transactions.

516
00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:58,180
So the tax man shows up at your fucking door with a pipe.

517
00:26:58,180 --> 00:27:00,660
I want to talk about the transactions.

518
00:27:00,660 --> 00:27:06,260
I had to print off all the transactions and it was literally like this thick of paper

519
00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:10,940
because like they wanted like every single line item and then I had to pay like $6,000

520
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:15,900
to maybe crypto coin tracker or something in order to process all of them.

521
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:20,020
Like it ended up being like super like it was fun.

522
00:27:20,020 --> 00:27:21,300
Yeah, it was good.

523
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,900
I enjoyed writing it, but man, the payoff was not there.

524
00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:28,540
I'm obviously not a good data scientist to pull that off.

525
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:29,540
But yeah.

526
00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:36,180
So as far as mine went was I would run it and just log all of the opportunity like over

527
00:27:36,180 --> 00:27:41,340
weeks just to see that it wasn't freaking out and doing like random stuff.

528
00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:43,220
And then the market sort of fell apart.

529
00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:47,700
And then I was like, yeah, enough.

530
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:48,700
Back to the day job.

531
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:50,580
I don't know why everything's shit in the bed today.

532
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:56,220
Like the US market has had a pretty flat day, but like coins today are just taking a bit

533
00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:57,220
of a shit.

534
00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:00,940
Ethereum's down 3% and Aptos at 8% today.

535
00:28:00,940 --> 00:28:02,940
Ethereum's down.

536
00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:03,940
Cosmos is down.

537
00:28:03,940 --> 00:28:05,140
Osmosis is down.

538
00:28:05,140 --> 00:28:06,140
Juno's down.

539
00:28:06,140 --> 00:28:08,300
Stargate's taking a real dump today.

540
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:09,300
Juno's down.

541
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:10,300
Jesus.

542
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:11,300
Can you believe it?

543
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:12,300
Bad sign.

544
00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:13,300
ATL after ATL.

545
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:18,860
The slow, yeah, 25 and a half cents.

546
00:28:18,860 --> 00:28:21,860
Like why wouldn't you be shorting Juno?

547
00:28:21,860 --> 00:28:23,820
Like was there money in shorting it?

548
00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:26,780
You can short it on Max C, I think.

549
00:28:26,780 --> 00:28:27,780
He's their money.

550
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:31,300
It goes down religiously.

551
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:32,300
That's gotta be it.

552
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:33,300
That's gotta be it.

553
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:34,300
Yeah.

554
00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:36,300
Anyway, maybe race knows race should be short.

555
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:37,300
Juno.

556
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:38,300
No.

557
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:39,300
Don't do that.

558
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:42,700
Bitcoin just about getting back underneath $30,000 again.

559
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:45,220
Yeah, I don't know.

560
00:28:45,220 --> 00:28:46,420
Everything was looking good.

561
00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:52,340
Of course, anytime I put a sell order in, even if it's a limit at.0001 more than what

562
00:28:52,340 --> 00:28:55,860
the current price is, no matter what it fucking retreats from there.

563
00:28:55,860 --> 00:29:02,780
It's like my ability to pick the high for that week is a thousand for a thousand.

564
00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:03,780
It's a mess.

565
00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:07,100
Yeah, everything is down.

566
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:09,580
I can't sell anything at the moment anyway.

567
00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:10,820
Yeah, agreed.

568
00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:14,740
Yeah, it's just too painful to sell anything that's cheap.

569
00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:19,900
Honestly, this is awful, but at least in the Cosmos chains that we run, I haven't even

570
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:20,900
pulled rewards.

571
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:22,860
I haven't really been compounding that much.

572
00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:25,100
I haven't done too much in anything in terms of.

573
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:30,820
I have left all of my rewards for sitting probably a couple of months.

574
00:29:30,820 --> 00:29:31,820
Yeah.

575
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:37,380
I mean, that's well, most of them, but that's mostly a function of tax time is coming up.

576
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:38,380
Yeah.

577
00:29:38,380 --> 00:29:40,380
The liability transaction.

578
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:41,380
Yeah.

579
00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:42,380
Yeah.

580
00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:45,340
So let's leave it till next financial year.

581
00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:46,340
Yeah.

582
00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:51,980
Oh man, everything like the stock market took a fucking fat dump last week here, like a

583
00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:52,980
real big fatty.

584
00:29:52,980 --> 00:29:54,980
What are the big stocks in Australia?

585
00:29:54,980 --> 00:29:57,660
What do you, what do you follow like banking?

586
00:29:57,660 --> 00:29:58,660
BHP.

587
00:29:58,660 --> 00:29:59,660
Yeah.

588
00:29:59,660 --> 00:30:03,700
Yeah, mine isn't banks over here a big bit.

589
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,540
I'm not really invested in any of them.

590
00:30:06,540 --> 00:30:14,620
My stocks are more like medical stocks, some, some tech stuff, supermarkets, blue chips,

591
00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:15,740
that type of shit.

592
00:30:15,740 --> 00:30:16,740
Retail shit.

593
00:30:16,740 --> 00:30:17,740
Yeah.

594
00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:18,740
Oh yeah.

595
00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:19,740
What about breaking rocks?

596
00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:21,220
Is there no breaking rock stock?

597
00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:22,860
I thought that was the thing.

598
00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:23,860
Breaking rock.

599
00:30:23,860 --> 00:30:24,860
Breaking rocks.

600
00:30:24,860 --> 00:30:25,860
Yeah.

601
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:28,060
You said that that was like the biggest export is that you take rocks, you break them down,

602
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:29,380
you ship them to other places.

603
00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:30,540
That's literally what you said.

604
00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:31,540
Oh yeah.

605
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:33,540
We ship out dirt with iron ore.

606
00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:36,740
So can you invest in that?

607
00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:37,740
What the hell?

608
00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:38,740
Stocks in dirt.

609
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:39,740
Yeah.

610
00:30:39,740 --> 00:30:42,420
I don't, I don't invest in miners.

611
00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:48,580
I had like a bad experience about 10 years ago and that was enough for me.

612
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:49,580
Yeah.

613
00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:50,580
Yeah.

614
00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:51,580
What was it?

615
00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:52,580
I can't remember.

616
00:30:52,580 --> 00:30:53,580
I bought.

617
00:30:53,580 --> 00:30:56,660
I bought, honestly, a very good experience and a very bad one at the same time.

618
00:30:56,660 --> 00:31:03,820
I think I bought like a bunch of mining contractors or something or, and then they took a fat

619
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:09,600
dump at the end of 2013 or something, which kind of like shook my boat a little bit.

620
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,260
But at the same time, I made all that backup almost exactly with one that went well.

621
00:31:15,260 --> 00:31:17,780
So it's like the VC mentality, right?

622
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:20,060
You just sort of fucking throw them out there to come up.

623
00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:22,580
You only need one to come good.

624
00:31:22,580 --> 00:31:23,580
That's right.

625
00:31:23,580 --> 00:31:28,660
And when you, and the biggest piece of that is you have to know when it's good and take

626
00:31:28,660 --> 00:31:29,660
advantage of when it's good.

627
00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:30,660
That's, that's a harder part too.

628
00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:33,020
I know you guys were talking about that a little bit last week when, when funky was

629
00:31:33,020 --> 00:31:39,300
on too around, around, I think you guys had a conversation around the, you know, like

630
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:42,860
the winners that you had or like when you got lucky on specific type of things or when

631
00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:45,420
you sold it 200% or 400%, right?

632
00:31:45,420 --> 00:31:50,540
And I think there was a combination of comments around either did not sell at the right time

633
00:31:50,540 --> 00:31:53,420
or sold too early, right?

634
00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:57,420
Like you sold Ethereum at up 100% or 200%, but honestly, that's a huge win.

635
00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:59,180
You just got to go find the next one, right?

636
00:31:59,180 --> 00:32:00,180
Or go do it again.

637
00:32:00,180 --> 00:32:03,860
And so I did the same thing in Treadfly.

638
00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:06,900
Like me too, me too.

639
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:09,700
Buying low is really easy.

640
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:12,980
Knowing when to sell is extremely hard.

641
00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:15,020
Like apocalypticly hard.

642
00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:19,780
Like it's extremely hard to figure out what is the right time to get, to get, to get rid

643
00:32:19,780 --> 00:32:22,700
of something because you don't want to be missing out, right?

644
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:27,700
And if you find the right time and like you're DCAing up and something and everything else,

645
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:33,900
but again, like anytime that you sell something for 100%, 100% of profit on something or you

646
00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:37,180
double your money, fucking put your feet up on the desk, right?

647
00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:39,900
And go down to the next one and you can't look back at them and be like, oh, fuck, I

648
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:40,900
missed on Bitcoin.

649
00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:44,500
But if you bought it 400 and sold 800, that's still a good goddamn trade, right?

650
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:51,860
So the part I struggle with when investing in like my own entity, my personal entity,

651
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:58,380
my own name is, and it's similar with validating and shit.

652
00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:03,380
You incur like a tax liability when you sell your shares, right?

653
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:04,380
Sure.

654
00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:06,420
So strictly talking about Treadfly.

655
00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:14,380
So, you know, I sort of start thinking to myself like, okay, it's up 300% or 400% or

656
00:33:14,380 --> 00:33:20,860
whatever, but if I sell it, then I'm going to be sacrificing 15% to the, because after

657
00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:24,860
you've owned something for 12 months in Australia, you get like a 50% capital gains discount.

658
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:29,540
So you're like, all right, I'm going to be sacrificing like half of whatever your non-tax

659
00:33:29,540 --> 00:33:30,540
rate is.

660
00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:35,580
So say if you're paying 30 cents in tax, you're going to be paying 15 cents in the dollar.

661
00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:37,620
When you sell it, you incur that tax liability.

662
00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:42,780
You're like, can I recycle this in the meantime and make another meaningful gain?

663
00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:47,700
Or on the flip side, what is the chances that this is actually going to go down 15% and

664
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:49,060
not keep going up?

665
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:55,020
So, you know, because you instantly lose 15% of it when you fuck it off.

666
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:58,740
Yeah, you lose, correct, correct.

667
00:33:58,740 --> 00:34:02,980
You lose 15% on the profit of what you gain, not on the whole amount.

668
00:34:02,980 --> 00:34:07,500
Well, if you're going at multiples, then the initial outlay becomes insignificant.

669
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:09,100
You might as well just count the whole thing as profit.

670
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:12,500
Yeah, but if you were going at multiples and 15%, who gives a fuck?

671
00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:13,500
Right?

672
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:14,500
That's the whole thing.

673
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:15,940
It's like you get in a situation where, oh, there he is.

674
00:34:15,940 --> 00:34:22,580
So you get in situations where you're saying like, you know, like you'd rather hold on

675
00:34:22,580 --> 00:34:28,380
to it where it drops 100% and you go, fuck versus taking a 15% tax hit on something that's

676
00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:29,500
a major gain.

677
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:30,500
So I agree.

678
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:34,660
And it's also, you're not taking 100%, you're not taking 100% of the 15%.

679
00:34:34,660 --> 00:34:37,220
That amount goes into the overall thing of what you're doing.

680
00:34:37,220 --> 00:34:40,300
So if you're selling and buying on a couple of different things, if you have some losers

681
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:42,660
or whatever else, it all evens out, right?

682
00:34:42,660 --> 00:34:43,660
Or it doesn't even out, but you know what I mean?

683
00:34:43,660 --> 00:34:44,860
Like it all goes into the mix.

684
00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:47,180
So it's not like you're just making 15%, like whatever.

685
00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:52,140
I definitely harvest those fucking losers right before tax time too.

686
00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:53,140
Everybody does, right?

687
00:34:53,140 --> 00:34:56,660
Like same thing in Tradfire, even like in this business too, you want to be able to take

688
00:34:56,660 --> 00:34:57,660
advantage of that, right?

689
00:34:57,660 --> 00:35:01,820
I'm pretty sure that's why our stock market took a fucking huge dump last week.

690
00:35:01,820 --> 00:35:02,820
What?

691
00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:04,940
Oh, well, yeah, that's interesting actually.

692
00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:08,100
Well, that's why it happens in the US too is because people, there's a little bit, there's

693
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:11,380
some rules around that here in the traditional finance area with those rules do not exist

694
00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:13,140
within crypto here.

695
00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:16,980
No rules exist within crypto here, but there's nothing around the idea of being able to sell

696
00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:18,940
losers and then buying them the next day.

697
00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:25,340
I think there is some rules around that here in that you're not supposed to do it.

698
00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:28,460
You're not supposed to sell them and immediately buy them back or even the next day.

699
00:35:28,460 --> 00:35:32,380
I'm sure that exists here too, but like what does immediate mean and like does it mean?

700
00:35:32,380 --> 00:35:37,500
Who is fucking going to like go through all the ledges and go, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,

701
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:42,020
or if I sell it here and I buy it someplace else, like no, no, we're back.

702
00:35:42,020 --> 00:35:43,100
Well, you're not here.

703
00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:44,100
So what the fuck?

704
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:48,340
Well, yeah, you weren't here to keep the shit one track.

705
00:35:48,340 --> 00:35:50,500
Isn't this the reason that you have asset pools?

706
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:57,740
So if you have like a pool of X shit coin and a pool of Y shit coin, then if you reduce

707
00:35:57,740 --> 00:36:03,980
the pool of your X shit coin like the day before tax day and then you were then to buy

708
00:36:03,980 --> 00:36:09,780
them back a couple of days later because you're only dealing with that the delta on that pool,

709
00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:13,660
you would then just immediately, but you would know about, I guess, things you'd still harvest

710
00:36:13,660 --> 00:36:15,580
a capital gain.

711
00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:16,580
You would harvest the capital gain.

712
00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:19,540
No, you would create a capital gain loss for the year before, but then you would pick it

713
00:36:19,540 --> 00:36:20,540
up.

714
00:36:20,540 --> 00:36:23,980
So if then if it went back up, you would just be recording a different delta against the

715
00:36:23,980 --> 00:36:24,980
same pool, right?

716
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:26,820
So you have a new, you have a new cost basis.

717
00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:32,620
I mean, if I, if I sell it, only the delta matters for working out your taxes in an individual

718
00:36:32,620 --> 00:36:33,620
year.

719
00:36:33,620 --> 00:36:34,620
Yeah.

720
00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:38,100
So yeah, you have a different cost basis, but the government is always going to get

721
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:39,980
paid, whatever.

722
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:43,060
If you actually take dollars off the table and you're making money, yes, that's the

723
00:36:43,060 --> 00:36:44,060
idea.

724
00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:49,060
But the other thing is like, I can't believe we're back on tax, but like, what I've always,

725
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:52,980
what I've always, like you want to be smarter on tax, but I would never make financial decisions

726
00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:57,300
based on the tax consequences associated that in those types of situations.

727
00:36:57,300 --> 00:36:58,300
Like that's the same thing.

728
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,940
Like people say like selling a business or like we're making too much money.

729
00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:06,700
And yes, you're taking down, but you're also taking dollars off the table and paying a percentage

730
00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:12,260
of that and trying to avoid that and, and, and bypassing the ability to make a profit

731
00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:16,100
for the purposes of tax is to me, a bit ridiculous.

732
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,340
Like, like you want to be tax smart.

733
00:37:18,340 --> 00:37:19,340
Don't get me wrong.

734
00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:24,420
Like there, there are clearly strategies around reducing tax tax structure around that.

735
00:37:24,420 --> 00:37:30,020
But the idea of like making my investment decisions based on the tax consequences where

736
00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:37,100
I am putting myself at more risk or I am reducing my rewards because of that is different.

737
00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:42,900
So I think you absolutely, I think you absolutely should include tax in your consideration,

738
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:44,700
whether you're taking profits.

739
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:48,340
Like it's a part of the conversation in your head.

740
00:37:48,340 --> 00:37:49,380
It's a part of conversation.

741
00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:50,380
That's true.

742
00:37:50,380 --> 00:37:51,380
Yeah.

743
00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:53,820
Like it's, you know, one is the, you know, how is the company doing?

744
00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:55,500
Like what is its future prospects?

745
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:59,980
Has it, is it mooning and you should get out or, you know, all these other things.

746
00:37:59,980 --> 00:38:03,940
The things that you, you like think about when you, when you're doing your math on their

747
00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:10,980
revenue and, you know, their market, how that market's going, et cetera, et cetera.

748
00:38:10,980 --> 00:38:14,100
One of the things is tax, you know, you got to consider it.

749
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:18,060
It is, but, but like to say, like to say to like, Hey, this thing is at 400% but I don't

750
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:20,260
want to sell it because I'm worried about tax consequence.

751
00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:21,260
That's fucking ridiculous, dude.

752
00:38:21,260 --> 00:38:25,100
No, but yeah, it's definitely not the only part of the conversation.

753
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:26,100
But it is 15%.

754
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:27,100
Right.

755
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:28,100
Like that.

756
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:30,780
It's time to, it's time to get the fuck off.

757
00:38:30,780 --> 00:38:35,940
But like, but selling is selling is really, is really fucking challenging because that

758
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:42,620
15% is sometimes 35%, you know, 40% depends on, on where your bracket sits.

759
00:38:42,620 --> 00:38:49,220
But from a quick Google, by the way, the reason that there probably is no rule around crypto

760
00:38:49,220 --> 00:38:52,980
is because of the holding period thing, right?

761
00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:56,300
Which doesn't, there's no rule around that.

762
00:38:56,300 --> 00:39:00,380
To my understanding of US hacks law in this area, which means it's slightly different.

763
00:39:00,380 --> 00:39:05,860
And the, the wash trading rules from a, again, from a quick look are different in different

764
00:39:05,860 --> 00:39:08,740
countries based on a capital gains tax.

765
00:39:08,740 --> 00:39:09,740
Right.

766
00:39:09,740 --> 00:39:10,740
Right.

767
00:39:10,740 --> 00:39:13,860
If they don't have something like, you know, distinction based on period that you hold

768
00:39:13,860 --> 00:39:18,700
it, which a lot of countries don't, then as long as you don't literally, a lot of countries

769
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:23,380
do seem to have like a 30 day cooldown, just so you can't do like blatant stock market

770
00:39:23,380 --> 00:39:25,100
manipulation would be my assumption.

771
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:29,220
Because you could be a really big company deep in your own stock and you could do really

772
00:39:29,220 --> 00:39:33,140
bad stuff, I guess, like, but that's inside a trading.

773
00:39:33,140 --> 00:39:37,420
And like, but inside it is inside a trading illegal in every country.

774
00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:38,420
My guess is no.

775
00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:40,020
No, I think it would.

776
00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:41,020
Yeah.

777
00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:42,020
I think it is.

778
00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:45,220
Well, most, most, most first world established economies.

779
00:39:45,220 --> 00:39:51,420
I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to get Google says I've got a quite one would hope curious.

780
00:39:51,420 --> 00:39:57,380
Like in Australia, if you, if you hold stocks in a company, even if you're a fucking employee,

781
00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:59,260
you can only trade them in windows.

782
00:39:59,260 --> 00:40:04,140
There's only certain windows you can trade them in to avoid like insider trading.

783
00:40:04,140 --> 00:40:07,820
And that's because of like reporting season and what people know coming up to reporting

784
00:40:07,820 --> 00:40:09,820
season.

785
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:15,220
If there's like any merger acquisition or anything like that, like corporate actions,

786
00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:19,780
they actually have to announce a window that you can like buy and sell the shares in.

787
00:40:19,780 --> 00:40:23,740
I had to Google if Australia was first world, but it is.

788
00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:25,300
We had a developer man.

789
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:26,300
We sell fucking raw.

790
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:30,180
Isn't that like a weirdly not PC statement or something?

791
00:40:30,180 --> 00:40:31,180
What first world?

792
00:40:31,180 --> 00:40:32,180
Yeah.

793
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:37,140
No, I mean, it's like a very established economy and financial system.

794
00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:38,140
No, I know, I know, I know.

795
00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:39,140
I don't know.

796
00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:43,580
But it's like first world's like Western country, second world's like influence.

797
00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:49,380
Third country is so it turns out the rules on a company doing.

798
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:52,020
Weird stuff with its own shares.

799
00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:53,540
It's a lot more complicated.

800
00:40:53,540 --> 00:40:55,900
Like what is legal and what isn't legal?

801
00:40:55,900 --> 00:41:02,820
And this looks like definitely some stuff that's borderline, but not quite inside a

802
00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:04,820
trading that a company can do.

803
00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:09,380
And it's just like, well, hmm, they might have a good reason for doing it.

804
00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:13,140
It kind of seems like in general, like the rules are all about like systemic stability.

805
00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:19,180
Like if a company starts doing something that's obviously just to mess with the merger rules

806
00:41:19,180 --> 00:41:23,580
or competition rules or whatever, then it's probably it's probably maybe illegal.

807
00:41:23,580 --> 00:41:29,340
But I think it usually depends if in the countries where the leadership is doing the same thing

808
00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:31,140
and if they've gotten caught in that same thing.

809
00:41:31,140 --> 00:41:34,060
And so if they have gotten caught, then therefore it's illegal.

810
00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:37,740
If they haven't got caught, then usually they, you know, kind of work through it.

811
00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:38,740
Yeah.

812
00:41:38,740 --> 00:41:44,140
To be fair, that's why money laundering is so crazy legal and easy in the UK because

813
00:41:44,140 --> 00:41:51,180
it's like anything that the upper class might need to do to shuffle around money or manipulate

814
00:41:51,180 --> 00:41:55,580
elections using, you know, money and influence.

815
00:41:55,580 --> 00:42:01,780
It's just like, well, you know, City of London, dodgy company in the British Virgin Islands,

816
00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:03,780
totally legit.

817
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:05,060
You can do that shit.

818
00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:06,060
You can do whatever you want.

819
00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:08,060
Hey, Ross and Oligox, you want to do the same thing?

820
00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:10,740
Yeah, come on, City of London, be our fucking guest.

821
00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:14,300
But once they don't need it, then it's like, oh, what the fuck are you guys doing?

822
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:15,300
Like this is bullshit.

823
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:18,260
Yeah, it's like, it's like, well, hold on a second.

824
00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:19,620
Hold on a second, people.

825
00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:21,300
Hold on a second trade unions.

826
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:23,900
Wait, you want to not be fired without cause?

827
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:25,420
Whoa, that's definitely illegal.

828
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:27,460
Let's let's try and outlaw that shit.

829
00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:32,220
You're like, hey, you guys are literally selling the company to Russian gang, the country to

830
00:42:32,220 --> 00:42:34,620
Russian gangsters and somehow that's legal.

831
00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:36,700
But over here, you can't protest.

832
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:40,700
So you have no right to protest or something like, what the hell?

833
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:43,980
It's like you have one rule for the super rich and whatever.

834
00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:44,980
It's crazy.

835
00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:47,140
Anyway, who the thunk it?

836
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:51,660
But so you know, we had Knowles News Corner last week.

837
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:57,060
I'm wondering if you guys covered the fact that between the last episode and this episode,

838
00:42:57,060 --> 00:43:00,180
there was a coup in Russia and then a counter coup.

839
00:43:00,180 --> 00:43:01,700
By the way, I was listening to that live.

840
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:03,460
I was fucking laughing my ass off.

841
00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:05,380
He's like, Knowles News Corner.

842
00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:07,060
I was expecting this Cosmos news.

843
00:43:07,060 --> 00:43:09,220
He's like, no, let me tell you about the supermarket story.

844
00:43:09,220 --> 00:43:10,900
I was like, what the fuck?

845
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:13,380
And Schultz is like, oh, you mean like the news?

846
00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:16,340
Like I was laughing my ass off.

847
00:43:16,340 --> 00:43:21,020
I was like, holy shit, we're going through Australian fucking supermarket news of somebody

848
00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:22,940
throwing cans of peas at somebody else.

849
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:23,940
I know.

850
00:43:23,940 --> 00:43:29,180
I was like, holy shit, how bad, how bad is the fucking bear that?

851
00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:33,820
Of course, going forward, we will start doing some crypto news.

852
00:43:33,820 --> 00:43:35,820
But you know, I was on the spot last week.

853
00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:36,820
It's all I could think about.

854
00:43:36,820 --> 00:43:39,620
Let me tell you about this lady.

855
00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:44,420
I was looking in newspapers from like 100 years ago.

856
00:43:44,420 --> 00:43:47,420
And man, newspapers back then were amazing.

857
00:43:47,420 --> 00:43:53,220
Like half of the newspaper is Johnny Silver came to town last week, one line and the next

858
00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:56,260
line, David visited his mother.

859
00:43:56,260 --> 00:43:57,260
It's amazing.

860
00:43:57,260 --> 00:43:59,260
I love newspapers.

861
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:00,260
Old school, early Twitter.

862
00:44:00,260 --> 00:44:01,260
Yeah.

863
00:44:01,260 --> 00:44:03,580
Early Twitter was the same thing.

864
00:44:03,580 --> 00:44:04,980
My brother came to see me.

865
00:44:04,980 --> 00:44:06,980
I had corn for dinner, right?

866
00:44:06,980 --> 00:44:07,980
Yeah.

867
00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:09,660
It was such a nice, such a nice innocent time before.

868
00:44:09,660 --> 00:44:13,420
Now it's like, fuck you, you fucking open source motherfucker.

869
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:16,940
I remember Twitter in like 2010.

870
00:44:16,940 --> 00:44:17,940
It was amazing.

871
00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:20,220
Like actually genuinely really good.

872
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:26,500
I met like there were loads of people on the music scene in Manchester that I didn't know

873
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:29,860
particularly well because I was studying there at the time.

874
00:44:29,860 --> 00:44:35,220
And I just followed people who I vaguely was aware of their band or like maybe would

875
00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:36,740
play with ones or something like that.

876
00:44:36,740 --> 00:44:41,420
And suddenly I had like all of these people that kind of, I guess like your one step of

877
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:43,580
removed from on the same music scene.

878
00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:45,580
And then suddenly you just like know everybody.

879
00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:49,220
And then you go to a gig and you're like, hey, we all know each other from Twitter.

880
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:50,220
And everybody's like, hey.

881
00:44:50,220 --> 00:44:53,300
And it was like, oh my God, we've actually made real life friends on the internet.

882
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:55,700
This is amazing.

883
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:58,780
And then you like flash forward a few years and it's like this ruined hellscape.

884
00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:04,900
And you're like, I mean, like, like I literally, I met people that I went and lived with for

885
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:06,460
like a period of time.

886
00:45:06,460 --> 00:45:11,020
Like I knew them from Twitter and ended up living with them when I needed a place to

887
00:45:11,020 --> 00:45:12,020
stay.

888
00:45:12,020 --> 00:45:15,020
Like I can't emphasize how wholesome and useful it was in my life.

889
00:45:15,020 --> 00:45:18,580
And they were really, they were a bit older than me and they were like super helpful.

890
00:45:18,580 --> 00:45:23,380
I had a really shit job and was going through a tough time and they were like mad supportive,

891
00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:27,220
cool guys who are a bit older and were like playing an abandoned stuff.

892
00:45:27,220 --> 00:45:29,100
It's like really inspirational.

893
00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:30,780
And like that all happened from Twitter.

894
00:45:30,780 --> 00:45:32,660
And I was like, this is life changing shit.

895
00:45:32,660 --> 00:45:34,540
It was so wholesome.

896
00:45:34,540 --> 00:45:39,740
And then this tour is awesome for a few years and I'm getting, and I'm just like, this is

897
00:45:39,740 --> 00:45:40,740
the worst website.

898
00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:42,740
I fucking hate this.

899
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:45,740
I fucking hate this is really bad for my mental health.

900
00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:47,620
And I'm like, this is literally this shit.

901
00:45:47,620 --> 00:45:48,980
This is a website.

902
00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:49,980
Save my ass.

903
00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:53,700
So, you know, I needed a place to live and I found a place to live here.

904
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:54,700
I fucking hate this.

905
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:58,420
I fucking hate this so much I want to build a web three version.

906
00:45:58,420 --> 00:46:05,620
I think we should put this on the blockchain.

907
00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:07,420
I hated so much.

908
00:46:07,420 --> 00:46:13,220
Hey, look, if there was a more wholesome web three version, unfortunately made a more

909
00:46:13,220 --> 00:46:16,180
degenerate version, which didn't solve the fundamental.

910
00:46:16,180 --> 00:46:19,660
See, you should, you should put it in where if you post something and people fucking down

911
00:46:19,660 --> 00:46:25,420
about you, you get slashed, that's what a shit, hey, social fucking slash.

912
00:46:25,420 --> 00:46:33,060
It's like Prop 16, but on the blockchain, I guess we really need more prop 16.

913
00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:36,980
It's like prop 16 or if we all came up in your asshole, then you just get your funds

914
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:38,100
get slashed and that's it.

915
00:46:38,100 --> 00:46:41,940
You can't post anymore than you got to like, you know, whatever you got to get back to

916
00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:42,940
your job.

917
00:46:42,940 --> 00:46:46,420
You got to go get more howl tokens and then come back in.

918
00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:50,100
You could shitpost more, but it just costs you so much to shitpost.

919
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:54,660
And then based on that, as you get slash, then the cost of post is not the gas fee.

920
00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:55,660
It keeps going up.

921
00:46:55,660 --> 00:46:57,060
It gets exponentially higher.

922
00:46:57,060 --> 00:47:02,500
So you can shitpost, but instead of it costing me half a nickel to shitpost, it costs no

923
00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:04,500
$8.50 to shitpost.

924
00:47:04,500 --> 00:47:06,980
And he can make that decision if he wants to do that or not.

925
00:47:06,980 --> 00:47:09,300
I think that's what it is anyway for the exchange rate, right?

926
00:47:09,300 --> 00:47:10,660
It's like a public good.

927
00:47:10,660 --> 00:47:11,660
Yeah, right there.

928
00:47:11,660 --> 00:47:12,660
Holy fuck, it's getting bad.

929
00:47:12,660 --> 00:47:13,660
You fucking solved it.

930
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:14,660
Wait, what's the exchange rate?

931
00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:19,580
What is the exchange rates bad enough that you need like 50 bucks to get a beer in the

932
00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:20,580
US?

933
00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:22,580
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah.

934
00:47:22,580 --> 00:47:25,860
That's what you're talking about, right?

935
00:47:25,860 --> 00:47:27,420
The kangabuck exchange rate.

936
00:47:27,420 --> 00:47:28,420
No, yeah.

937
00:47:28,420 --> 00:47:31,260
We're not talking about that all.

938
00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:34,780
Some shit for it out of there.

939
00:47:34,780 --> 00:47:38,460
Same, same, same, same, same, same.

940
00:47:38,460 --> 00:47:46,060
I met up with a former colleague in the week and just in trying to like, they're like,

941
00:47:46,060 --> 00:47:49,020
oh, you're weeping in like last couple of months.

942
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:52,740
And just in order to explain like one anecdote, I was like, oh, this thing happened the other

943
00:47:52,740 --> 00:47:53,740
week.

944
00:47:53,740 --> 00:47:57,220
And you know when you like, then say a thing and then they have none of the context.

945
00:47:57,220 --> 00:48:00,220
And they're like, you're going to need to back up and explain what half of those words

946
00:48:00,220 --> 00:48:01,220
mean.

947
00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:03,980
And then you do and they're like, I don't understand why any of that is important.

948
00:48:03,980 --> 00:48:04,980
And then you explain it.

949
00:48:04,980 --> 00:48:07,260
And they're like, so, but why is that a big deal?

950
00:48:07,260 --> 00:48:10,500
And then you go, okay, so there was this drama.

951
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:12,100
And then they're like, but why does the drama matter?

952
00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:16,260
And you're like, okay, so the people involved in the drama and they're like, why are these

953
00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:17,260
people so angry?

954
00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:19,140
And you're like, well, number one, I don't know.

955
00:48:19,140 --> 00:48:21,500
But number two, there was this other drama.

956
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:25,460
And then they're just like, wow, this really just sounds awful.

957
00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:27,580
And you're like, hmm, yep.

958
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:28,580
Yeah.

959
00:48:28,580 --> 00:48:32,540
It's just lots of people shouting about at each other on Twitter now, I think about it.

960
00:48:32,540 --> 00:48:35,140
And they're just like, do you, do you still write code?

961
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:40,500
And I was like, I mean, I think I mostly hide under a rock to avoid Twitter drama and I

962
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:43,780
very occasionally open Emacs and write some rust.

963
00:48:43,780 --> 00:48:46,340
But, but it's hard to say actually.

964
00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:50,540
And they were just like, wow, it just sounds like it's, it's a while west, but not in the

965
00:48:50,540 --> 00:48:51,540
exciting way.

966
00:48:51,540 --> 00:48:52,540
Right.

967
00:48:52,540 --> 00:48:53,540
And I was like, what's the other way?

968
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:55,900
And they're like, the one way you just get shot for the reason.

969
00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:57,740
You just die of dysentery, right?

970
00:48:57,740 --> 00:48:58,740
That that way.

971
00:48:58,740 --> 00:48:59,740
It's more of an Oregon trail.

972
00:48:59,740 --> 00:49:04,980
You're trying to get rid of shit coins, but you died of dysentery.

973
00:49:04,980 --> 00:49:05,980
Exactly.

974
00:49:05,980 --> 00:49:06,980
Yeah.

975
00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:12,460
That's exactly what it is.

976
00:49:12,460 --> 00:49:13,460
Who is it?

977
00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:14,460
All right.

978
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:15,460
Are we doing the drill tweet?

979
00:49:15,460 --> 00:49:16,460
Um, yes.

980
00:49:16,460 --> 00:49:24,660
I, so I, uh, look at, I created an, I will fucking his name to like insane something.

981
00:49:24,660 --> 00:49:25,660
Hold on.

982
00:49:25,660 --> 00:49:26,660
I created a new marketing for this.

983
00:49:26,660 --> 00:49:27,660
Yes.

984
00:49:27,660 --> 00:49:32,180
I didn't even know you could do that.

985
00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:33,180
I know.

986
00:49:33,180 --> 00:49:34,180
I know.

987
00:49:34,180 --> 00:49:35,180
I know.

988
00:49:35,180 --> 00:49:37,160
I know I, I know every person they're off.

989
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,120
I know every person they're out and they out and they know, I never, never, I've ever

990
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,600
wanted to know, no, I do.

991
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,960
I think it's why it's horrible.

992
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,100
You're like, that wastest.

993
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:49,420
I love, that.

994
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:54,780
It's like, like maybe I was talking to a phone like, well, sure, but it's just obvious to

995
00:49:54,780 --> 00:49:55,780
me.

996
00:49:55,780 --> 00:49:57,420
hubby is, Hey, this is unreal.

997
00:49:57,420 --> 00:49:58,420
It's this.

998
00:49:58,420 --> 00:49:59,420
Dude.

999
00:49:59,420 --> 00:50:00,420
That was poison.

1000
00:50:00,420 --> 00:50:01,420
Good.

1001
00:50:01,420 --> 00:50:02,420
It's insane.

1002
00:50:02,420 --> 00:50:03,420
Yeah.

1003
00:50:03,420 --> 00:50:08,500
It's like the perfect, a section is God and religion.

1004
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:09,500
Perfect.

1005
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:17,100
And the one I put my finger on is I've narrowed it down to the Church of Scientology or the

1006
00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:22,620
United States Marines, whichever one allows me to jerk off more in this flybreaker.

1007
00:50:22,620 --> 00:50:23,620
I would say you.

1008
00:50:23,620 --> 00:50:31,380
Honestly, if you are following along at home and you have the drill work driven and wild

1009
00:50:31,380 --> 00:50:38,340
since 2008, page 162 and 163, there's some bangers there if you want to have a look at

1010
00:50:38,340 --> 00:50:39,340
home.

1011
00:50:39,340 --> 00:50:40,340
Perfect.

1012
00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:41,700
I thought we got rid of this segment actually.

1013
00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:48,180
But also just while we're on the air as well, I did a classic thing last night.

1014
00:50:48,180 --> 00:50:53,540
We had a production migration of a load of infrastructure to do.

1015
00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:58,980
So like smart people, we scheduled it in for 11 o'clock at night UK time.

1016
00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:01,220
Should have waited till Friday too.

1017
00:51:01,220 --> 00:51:02,460
Fucking great idea.

1018
00:51:02,460 --> 00:51:07,340
It was a smashing idea because obviously things went wrong and obviously it then blew over

1019
00:51:07,340 --> 00:51:10,900
into early hours of the morning with page G going off.

1020
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:12,860
It was magic, absolutely sensational.

1021
00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:17,020
That's why today was such a productive day.

1022
00:51:17,020 --> 00:51:26,340
But both you, both usurper and shortcy fully fucking saved our chestnuts.

1023
00:51:26,340 --> 00:51:28,380
Particularly particularly as well actually.

1024
00:51:28,380 --> 00:51:34,380
So you surfer plenty of sensible advice into the run up to fucking nuking all the shit

1025
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:39,500
because we had to bring down all of our old infrastructure in this case to do what we,

1026
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:42,940
I guess we should probably call the switcheroo according to phrase rule of thumb that if

1027
00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:47,220
you do anything super dodgy, anything super dodgy necessitates the switcheroo.

1028
00:51:47,220 --> 00:51:51,620
And as soon as you call something a switcheroo, you know you're doing something that you

1029
00:51:51,620 --> 00:51:52,620
shouldn't.

1030
00:51:52,620 --> 00:51:55,260
So anyway, we did the switcheroo.

1031
00:51:55,260 --> 00:52:01,740
It blew up as these things are want to do as it turned out for reasons that were obvious

1032
00:52:01,740 --> 00:52:05,220
in hindsight, they always are.

1033
00:52:05,220 --> 00:52:10,340
And we had a situation where basically needed to manually re-sink a blockchain like while

1034
00:52:10,340 --> 00:52:12,460
we were down in production.

1035
00:52:12,460 --> 00:52:18,500
And honestly was at the point of just like, just like, there's a way of like sinking this

1036
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:20,540
thing in like maybe 2003 hours.

1037
00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:22,420
There's a way of sinking in 13 hours.

1038
00:52:22,420 --> 00:52:24,260
Obviously you don't want to do a 13 hour one.

1039
00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:28,100
And I was completely resigned to the three hours of downtime.

1040
00:52:28,100 --> 00:52:31,660
And Schultz was literally like, Hey, wait, don't you already have a copy of this data?

1041
00:52:31,660 --> 00:52:35,420
You could with some jiggery poetry, essentially, it's actually like you could just rename some

1042
00:52:35,420 --> 00:52:39,700
stuff, turn off some stuff, turn it back on again, cross your fingers, and it will probably

1043
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:41,300
sort itself out.

1044
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:43,580
And Schultz was 100% right.

1045
00:52:43,580 --> 00:52:44,660
Fully saved our chestnuts.

1046
00:52:44,660 --> 00:52:47,380
We were back online in 30 minutes, not three hours.

1047
00:52:47,380 --> 00:52:52,740
I'll be honest, if I couldn't, if it weren't for the diff thing and discord, which KJ nodes

1048
00:52:52,740 --> 00:52:54,660
showed to me, I wouldn't even message.

1049
00:52:54,660 --> 00:52:55,860
I would have just totally left it out.

1050
00:52:55,860 --> 00:52:57,020
Wait, what the thing?

1051
00:52:57,020 --> 00:52:59,220
Is there a discord?

1052
00:52:59,220 --> 00:53:00,220
There is.

1053
00:53:00,220 --> 00:53:01,220
Yeah, absolutely.

1054
00:53:01,220 --> 00:53:02,220
Yeah.

1055
00:53:02,220 --> 00:53:04,700
So if you look at the chat, if you scroll up a bit, you can see that you can do a different

1056
00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:05,700
discord.

1057
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:06,700
It's so cool.

1058
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:07,700
Not on your phone.

1059
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:08,700
Yeah.

1060
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:13,420
So thank KJ nodes because I wanted to use that because I just learned about it.

1061
00:53:13,420 --> 00:53:14,420
That's pretty cool.

1062
00:53:14,420 --> 00:53:15,420
I didn't even know you could do it.

1063
00:53:15,420 --> 00:53:17,780
I thought that was a screenshot of a get diff.

1064
00:53:17,780 --> 00:53:20,340
That's pretty, that's no, no, isn't that awesome?

1065
00:53:20,340 --> 00:53:25,500
I mean, that was a really long explanation to really explain operator error.

1066
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:26,500
Yeah.

1067
00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:29,620
I mean, let's, let's, let's place the blame where the blame should be.

1068
00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:31,620
That was, yeah.

1069
00:53:31,620 --> 00:53:37,300
So, so essentially what happened here, right, is that we were running a node on a testnet

1070
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:40,580
using Docker and some volumes.

1071
00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:46,340
And on our previous version of the configuration there, we had changed it so that there was,

1072
00:53:46,340 --> 00:53:51,220
no matter what type of node you're running, conceptually think of it like RPC, full node,

1073
00:53:51,220 --> 00:53:54,380
archive node, validator, right?

1074
00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:57,620
The data volume would always be called the same thing, which would be called like main

1075
00:53:57,620 --> 00:54:00,460
net or something like that.

1076
00:54:00,460 --> 00:54:08,540
And we had changed that because reasons were just got a new configuration file and not

1077
00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:13,060
paid too much attention to the working of it, resulting in a Docker volume that wasn't

1078
00:54:13,060 --> 00:54:16,420
called what we thought, which meant there was no data available, which meant that when

1079
00:54:16,420 --> 00:54:23,060
the validator initialized, it was like, I guess I've got to re-sync this chain, big shenanigans.

1080
00:54:23,060 --> 00:54:27,540
And it would just like try to work out what was going on.

1081
00:54:27,540 --> 00:54:29,660
And sure as he was like, it's fucking wrong name lads.

1082
00:54:29,660 --> 00:54:30,660
It's wrong name.

1083
00:54:30,660 --> 00:54:34,100
Pretty sure you can just, just change that name thing.

1084
00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:37,740
And then it's probably going to maybe work, you know, or, or, you know, might not work,

1085
00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:39,260
but you know, Yolo and

1086
00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:44,060
I think it's a good chance it might work.

1087
00:54:44,060 --> 00:54:48,580
I also do recognize like no fancy rules, but it's very easy to recommend that you just

1088
00:54:48,580 --> 00:54:51,940
just restart it and hope for the best when it's not your node and it's not you down in

1089
00:54:51,940 --> 00:54:52,940
production.

1090
00:54:52,940 --> 00:54:55,700
Yeah, I was going to say like, you're giving me a lot of credit here when really all I

1091
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:58,180
said was, have you tried like renaming it?

1092
00:54:58,180 --> 00:55:02,860
Hey, have you looked at the actual Docker volumes to make sure you're using everything?

1093
00:55:02,860 --> 00:55:07,860
But, but saying, essentially saying, have you tried turning off and turning on again?

1094
00:55:07,860 --> 00:55:12,660
We named it in between saved two and a half hours of downtime, which

1095
00:55:12,660 --> 00:55:16,540
I was probably more, those probably more like, I'm guessing was more like six.

1096
00:55:16,540 --> 00:55:23,620
Well, so the bit that you didn't see in the up between me typing, oh, fuck lads.

1097
00:55:23,620 --> 00:55:27,420
And then the short see being like, is a container.

1098
00:55:27,420 --> 00:55:28,420
Yeah.

1099
00:55:28,420 --> 00:55:30,540
Have you considered the church of Scientology?

1100
00:55:30,540 --> 00:55:33,780
I mean, have you considered renaming it?

1101
00:55:33,780 --> 00:55:39,700
Because that we had actually rechanged the additional states in config and then restart

1102
00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:43,140
resyncing and it was syncing a lot faster.

1103
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:47,340
So it was it was syncing a lot faster than like whatever it was transaction outputs a

1104
00:55:47,340 --> 00:55:48,340
second.

1105
00:55:48,340 --> 00:55:49,340
Okay.

1106
00:55:49,340 --> 00:55:55,860
So it was on track for more like three hours and 13, which is is closer to the correct number

1107
00:55:55,860 --> 00:55:56,860
one would expect.

1108
00:55:56,860 --> 00:55:57,860
That's not bad.

1109
00:55:57,860 --> 00:56:02,220
I mean, honestly, you're think that that is a sinking of a blockchain that has been running

1110
00:56:02,220 --> 00:56:06,140
for what nine months, right?

1111
00:56:06,140 --> 00:56:07,140
From Genesis.

1112
00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:08,140
Jesus, that hasn't been that long.

1113
00:56:08,140 --> 00:56:09,140
Has it?

1114
00:56:09,140 --> 00:56:10,140
It's October.

1115
00:56:10,140 --> 00:56:11,140
Yeah.

1116
00:56:11,140 --> 00:56:12,140
It was like early October, right?

1117
00:56:12,140 --> 00:56:13,140
So it's been fucking nine months.

1118
00:56:13,140 --> 00:56:14,140
Yeah.

1119
00:56:14,140 --> 00:56:15,140
It's like one.

1120
00:56:15,140 --> 00:56:16,140
Yeah.

1121
00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:17,140
Am I right?

1122
00:56:17,140 --> 00:56:18,140
I think it's like 1,600,000.

1123
00:56:18,140 --> 00:56:19,140
No, no, no, no.

1124
00:56:19,140 --> 00:56:24,780
It was, no, we just we just passed 150 million or 160 160 million versions, which is based

1125
00:56:24,780 --> 00:56:25,780
on transactions.

1126
00:56:25,780 --> 00:56:26,780
Which is not quite.

1127
00:56:26,780 --> 00:56:27,780
Yeah.

1128
00:56:27,780 --> 00:56:28,780
Which is a transaction, I think is really what that is.

1129
00:56:28,780 --> 00:56:29,780
But yeah.

1130
00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:32,180
But but I mean, honestly, that thinks it seems pretty cool.

1131
00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:38,420
It's like 4,000, 4,000 trans or 4,000 blocks or 4,000 versions a second or something like

1132
00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:39,420
that.

1133
00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:40,420
It's it was thinking.

1134
00:56:40,420 --> 00:56:41,420
Yeah.

1135
00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:47,580
Like even in slow sync, it was thinking 400,000 every two minutes.

1136
00:56:47,580 --> 00:56:48,580
4,000.

1137
00:56:48,580 --> 00:56:49,820
Oh, oh, every two minutes.

1138
00:56:49,820 --> 00:56:50,820
Oh, okay.

1139
00:56:50,820 --> 00:56:51,820
Yeah.

1140
00:56:51,820 --> 00:56:52,820
That's not bad.

1141
00:56:52,820 --> 00:56:53,820
That's slow.

1142
00:56:53,820 --> 00:56:58,220
When I was when it was slowly sinking, which means I think when it's slow sinking, it's

1143
00:56:58,220 --> 00:57:00,100
not applying the transaction outputs.

1144
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:01,100
It's executing them.

1145
00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:02,260
I think it's grabbing the headers, right?

1146
00:57:02,260 --> 00:57:04,100
It's really what's doing is grabbing the it's just grabbing.

1147
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:05,100
It's not grabbing.

1148
00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:06,100
Yeah.

1149
00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:09,980
The fast the fast sync distinction is the applying the transaction outputs rather than

1150
00:57:09,980 --> 00:57:10,980
executing.

1151
00:57:10,980 --> 00:57:11,980
Right.

1152
00:57:11,980 --> 00:57:16,260
I think I would kill for this and have most by the way, since every time I need to sink

1153
00:57:16,260 --> 00:57:23,740
that it's like you're moving at 1.1% or 1.1 times the actual block time.

1154
00:57:23,740 --> 00:57:27,660
So if you're back by 10 blocks, you got to wait like two minutes type of thing.

1155
00:57:27,660 --> 00:57:28,660
Well, yeah.

1156
00:57:28,660 --> 00:57:31,940
I was heartbreaking when they put out an announcement that it was suddenly fixed and I was like,

1157
00:57:31,940 --> 00:57:32,940
yes.

1158
00:57:32,940 --> 00:57:33,940
And it was not fixed.

1159
00:57:33,940 --> 00:57:38,540
And if anything is worse, which is so emblematic.

1160
00:57:38,540 --> 00:57:39,540
Right.

1161
00:57:39,540 --> 00:57:40,540
Yeah.

1162
00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:41,540
Yeah.

1163
00:57:41,540 --> 00:57:42,540
Yep.

1164
00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:43,540
Yep.

1165
00:57:43,540 --> 00:57:44,540
Yep.

1166
00:57:44,540 --> 00:57:45,540
Yep.

1167
00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:46,940
Well, the good news is that it's on a little bit of a slow slide.

1168
00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:50,220
So, oh, it's at 9.3 cents.

1169
00:57:50,220 --> 00:57:51,220
Shit.

1170
00:57:51,220 --> 00:57:52,220
Shit.

1171
00:57:52,220 --> 00:57:53,220
Shit.

1172
00:57:53,220 --> 00:57:54,220
Shit.

1173
00:57:54,220 --> 00:57:55,220
Yeah.

1174
00:57:55,220 --> 00:57:56,980
So, Edmonds did keep us alive last year.

1175
00:57:56,980 --> 00:58:01,020
That was the only thing keeping us sustainable for like three months.

1176
00:58:01,020 --> 00:58:02,020
Yeah.

1177
00:58:02,020 --> 00:58:04,060
I mean, that's how it works in this business, right?

1178
00:58:04,060 --> 00:58:10,100
Like you have bumps of like different chains that take that end up becoming like the.

1179
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:11,380
But it is a treadmill, isn't it?

1180
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:18,220
You have to as a as a validator, you have to basically constantly be chasing the new

1181
00:58:18,220 --> 00:58:19,220
fad.

1182
00:58:19,220 --> 00:58:23,540
Otherwise, eventually you're going to get a rug by time.

1183
00:58:23,540 --> 00:58:25,620
Time rugs all in the end.

1184
00:58:25,620 --> 00:58:31,340
So, I feel like though, like say, she'll see your situation, right?

1185
00:58:31,340 --> 00:58:36,020
And probably mine for a little bit as well with Edmonds is that you take some off the

1186
00:58:36,020 --> 00:58:37,020
table right there.

1187
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:38,620
They keep you afloat.

1188
00:58:38,620 --> 00:58:43,820
Are you now not obligated to run that chain until it fucking goes into the dirt?

1189
00:58:43,820 --> 00:58:44,820
Yeah.

1190
00:58:44,820 --> 00:58:45,820
Yeah.

1191
00:58:45,820 --> 00:58:47,340
I would say to a certain extent, yeah.

1192
00:58:47,340 --> 00:58:53,900
And to Edmonds' defense, I'm more bullish on Edmonds still than I am on many Cosmos chains.

1193
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:55,780
Like they've had issues.

1194
00:58:55,780 --> 00:58:56,780
Yeah, fine.

1195
00:58:56,780 --> 00:58:58,860
But I think that the team is still doing good things.

1196
00:58:58,860 --> 00:59:00,180
I think that they're still pushing forward.

1197
00:59:00,180 --> 00:59:05,820
I think they're still, they're a very clearly, in my opinion, positive impact on the wider

1198
00:59:05,820 --> 00:59:06,820
ecosystem.

1199
00:59:06,820 --> 00:59:07,820
Yeah.

1200
00:59:07,820 --> 00:59:10,540
I think Nolan and I were talking about this earlier this week.

1201
00:59:10,540 --> 00:59:11,540
We can bring it up.

1202
00:59:11,540 --> 00:59:15,820
But like we do, we will see more validators disappearing.

1203
00:59:15,820 --> 00:59:22,420
So based on the time and effort that goes into the chains or based on the amount of dollars

1204
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:25,660
that they have, like we call it, like the nut, right?

1205
00:59:25,660 --> 00:59:28,660
How much they actually have to make to be able to cover salaries and other types of things,

1206
00:59:28,660 --> 00:59:29,660
right?

1207
00:59:29,660 --> 00:59:31,740
So either, you know, they'll shed those people or they'll shed hardware.

1208
00:59:31,740 --> 00:59:36,660
They'll do whatever they need to get down to a very, as low as they feel, excuse me,

1209
00:59:36,660 --> 00:59:40,860
they can go, that they can run a set of chains, right?

1210
00:59:40,860 --> 00:59:44,860
And then what I also think is that there is an endless supply of validators behind that.

1211
00:59:44,860 --> 00:59:45,860
I think an endless supply.

1212
00:59:45,860 --> 00:59:50,820
Because somebody will say, hey, I want to run this at a loss for six months until this chain

1213
00:59:50,820 --> 00:59:51,820
rebounces.

1214
00:59:51,820 --> 00:59:57,100
And I think there is literally hundreds or thousands of people or companies that will

1215
00:59:57,100 --> 01:00:02,060
run validators at a loss for six to 12 months waiting for a chain to pop back up, right?

1216
01:00:02,060 --> 01:00:04,900
So if I, you don't think?

1217
01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:08,380
I mean, continue, please, but I don't agree so much anymore.

1218
01:00:08,380 --> 01:00:12,260
And the reason why I think that that number, that number is getting lower, right?

1219
01:00:12,260 --> 01:00:14,020
I think I agree with that.

1220
01:00:14,020 --> 01:00:20,140
So as for example, axelar, like the buy-in amount right now is like $1,000, right?

1221
01:00:20,140 --> 01:00:24,060
Like an axelar is a, I mean, granted, it's a big chain to run.

1222
01:00:24,060 --> 01:00:25,060
You have to run other things as well.

1223
01:00:25,060 --> 01:00:26,060
There's a lot of stuff, right?

1224
01:00:26,060 --> 01:00:28,260
But it's a really important chain.

1225
01:00:28,260 --> 01:00:35,980
And I would consider it one of the name recognition chains where you join that chain and people

1226
01:00:35,980 --> 01:00:38,260
are like, oh, well, they're on this big chain, right?

1227
01:00:38,260 --> 01:00:39,260
Like that's important.

1228
01:00:39,260 --> 01:00:41,740
Do you know, I would say, used to be one of those?

1229
01:00:41,740 --> 01:00:43,380
I don't know if it's so much as anymore.

1230
01:00:43,380 --> 01:00:46,220
True, unfortunately.

1231
01:00:46,220 --> 01:00:47,900
And $1,000 isn't that much.

1232
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:48,900
I don't know that.

1233
01:00:48,900 --> 01:00:49,900
I don't know.

1234
01:00:49,900 --> 01:00:53,540
But I still see like a long list of valid, even on new chains that come up, you still

1235
01:00:53,540 --> 01:00:57,300
see like a long list of teams you've never seen before, right?

1236
01:00:57,300 --> 01:01:06,180
So I think there is a pretty long runway of individuals or groups that are willing to

1237
01:01:06,180 --> 01:01:12,780
lose some money in the hope that they're getting in early on something that will hopefully

1238
01:01:12,780 --> 01:01:14,780
turn around, right?

1239
01:01:14,780 --> 01:01:19,220
What I don't believe is that the project teams have the same stamina.

1240
01:01:19,220 --> 01:01:22,820
So project teams need to pay employees or they will go somewhere else.

1241
01:01:22,820 --> 01:01:27,740
Project teams need to be able to pay and be able to grow.

1242
01:01:27,740 --> 01:01:30,260
And they need to be able to market.

1243
01:01:30,260 --> 01:01:34,740
And they need to be able to, like those are costs that even in a really bad market actually

1244
01:01:34,740 --> 01:01:38,900
grow because they're doing more marketing, they're doing more education, they're trying

1245
01:01:38,900 --> 01:01:41,480
to be able to do more from a community perspective.

1246
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,940
And so what I would expect is that you'll see project teams start to deteriorate and

1247
01:01:45,940 --> 01:01:46,940
eventually fall.

1248
01:01:46,940 --> 01:01:51,020
Not to put it on servers, but servers was an example of that early on where you had,

1249
01:01:51,020 --> 01:01:53,100
I think it was like one or two people, right?

1250
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:54,100
And they just fucking disappeared.

1251
01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:57,340
Like they just buried it all because they had no value to it.

1252
01:01:57,340 --> 01:02:02,460
And I do think that you will see over time that there are specific project teams that

1253
01:02:02,460 --> 01:02:04,280
will have to crumble.

1254
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,020
And if that happens, then it turns into, okay, there's some value in this chain.

1255
01:02:08,020 --> 01:02:10,140
Is that who takes this forward?

1256
01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:11,140
Is there a path forward?

1257
01:02:11,140 --> 01:02:15,180
And then people try to make it happen and somebody maybe steps in or whatever the hell

1258
01:02:15,180 --> 01:02:16,300
happens.

1259
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:18,540
But at some point, there's a reckoning, right?

1260
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:21,140
So that's my concern on some of these that really work.

1261
01:02:21,140 --> 01:02:27,540
I think you're just gonna see how not decentralized in any way any of these proof of state chains

1262
01:02:27,540 --> 01:02:29,620
are through that process.

1263
01:02:29,620 --> 01:02:30,620
Yeah, sure.

1264
01:02:30,620 --> 01:02:35,700
Because you're gonna see that none of them survive the loss of, let's say, two thirds.

1265
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:45,260
Let's say 66.67% of the core team is probably the magic number that need to stay before

1266
01:02:45,260 --> 01:02:50,860
the project no longer has any viability.

1267
01:02:50,860 --> 01:02:56,500
But yeah, I mean, and this is the thing with especially with the current generation of

1268
01:02:56,500 --> 01:03:03,380
proof of state chains, it's hard to, you know, like fucking full, full, this is now the brutality

1269
01:03:03,380 --> 01:03:04,380
hat.

1270
01:03:04,380 --> 01:03:06,380
Let's put the brutality hat on.

1271
01:03:06,380 --> 01:03:07,380
What is that?

1272
01:03:07,380 --> 01:03:08,380
Brutality hat on.

1273
01:03:08,380 --> 01:03:09,380
I have one of those.

1274
01:03:09,380 --> 01:03:14,580
It's hard to feel that sorry for the current generation of proof of state chains because

1275
01:03:14,580 --> 01:03:21,100
they are NGMI when the core team leaves, they have no succession planning and no ability

1276
01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:31,100
to which you would think would be a core technical necessity for any truly decentralized project.

1277
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:34,820
So the interesting thing about Cosmos, I suppose, is that all the chains are a DAO or

1278
01:03:34,820 --> 01:03:39,460
a DAO in inverted commas at the heart of them, but it's a broken DAO.

1279
01:03:39,460 --> 01:03:41,100
It doesn't work.

1280
01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:49,100
And the interesting thing will be, okay, there's essentially two future models, I think, for

1281
01:03:49,100 --> 01:03:50,100
these chains.

1282
01:03:50,100 --> 01:03:54,420
There might be more because we're still early, but at the moment, it seems like a better,

1283
01:03:54,420 --> 01:03:57,260
more functional DAO is one option.

1284
01:03:57,260 --> 01:04:03,340
And another option is going completely trustless, going fully the other direction where you no

1285
01:04:03,340 --> 01:04:11,060
longer are taking finality as the most important part of that trio of distributed system records.

1286
01:04:11,060 --> 01:04:14,300
And then you have to go back to the requirements and instead go back to liveness like proof

1287
01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:15,300
of work.

1288
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:20,300
And where there's another model like proof of work that can survive not only adversarial

1289
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:26,020
actors outside of the network, but also essentially getting rugged by your own founders.

1290
01:04:26,020 --> 01:04:27,020
Can you launch a chain?

1291
01:04:27,020 --> 01:04:28,060
It will just continue.

1292
01:04:28,060 --> 01:04:30,260
That's an interesting problem.

1293
01:04:30,260 --> 01:04:32,780
It hasn't been solved yet.

1294
01:04:32,780 --> 01:04:38,860
And I completely agree with you that actually the number of validators, some of these chains

1295
01:04:38,860 --> 01:04:41,740
are going to become zombie chains just because of Hopium.

1296
01:04:41,740 --> 01:04:44,020
Yeah, I would think so.

1297
01:04:44,020 --> 01:04:49,580
Because the validator set is so small, like, yeah, when you think about it, like, if a

1298
01:04:49,580 --> 01:04:53,180
name recognition chain becomes completely unprofitable, like you're never going to make

1299
01:04:53,180 --> 01:04:57,140
any money on again, let's say that eventually the coin does converge on zero, you would

1300
01:04:57,140 --> 01:05:04,140
still get people joining as it is riding its final death spiral purely out of Hopium because

1301
01:05:04,140 --> 01:05:06,580
you've got like 150 validators.

1302
01:05:06,580 --> 01:05:12,940
You can find 150 suckers walking down the end of the road to the post office.

1303
01:05:12,940 --> 01:05:15,060
It just spends on the cost to run, right?

1304
01:05:15,060 --> 01:05:17,380
And tenement chains don't have a huge cost to run.

1305
01:05:17,380 --> 01:05:22,700
So if you can do that in some sort of sense, then I think you can, yeah, you can have zombie

1306
01:05:22,700 --> 01:05:24,060
chains run for a long time.

1307
01:05:24,060 --> 01:05:27,220
But that doesn't necessarily mean the users are there or this is there.

1308
01:05:27,220 --> 01:05:33,540
People have dollars or they have investment in that idea or they have a vision of what

1309
01:05:33,540 --> 01:05:34,540
that could be.

1310
01:05:34,540 --> 01:05:36,780
And therefore, it's very difficult to give that up, right?

1311
01:05:36,780 --> 01:05:38,100
Do you know what's interesting, though?

1312
01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:41,140
I was thinking this about, like, you know, when you say like cosmos chains are quite

1313
01:05:41,140 --> 01:05:42,140
easy to run.

1314
01:05:42,140 --> 01:05:43,660
I think they both are and they aren't.

1315
01:05:43,660 --> 01:05:47,900
Like there's some things about them that are very easy to run, like 13 hour downtime

1316
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:50,540
window on most chains.

1317
01:05:50,540 --> 01:05:51,540
That's super easy.

1318
01:05:51,540 --> 01:05:56,980
Like you can literally turn off all your monitoring except for 10 o'clock in the morning, 10 o'clock

1319
01:05:56,980 --> 01:05:59,580
in the evening, right?

1320
01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:02,740
So in fact, actually one of the things we literally have on our company phones is we

1321
01:06:02,740 --> 01:06:06,340
have a round robin that does text you every morning at six.

1322
01:06:06,340 --> 01:06:11,540
So that when you start the working day, you have a text message form, a summary of what

1323
01:06:11,540 --> 01:06:15,580
all the servers, what all the networks that we run are doing, right?

1324
01:06:15,580 --> 01:06:18,260
And for cosmos, that's completely viable.

1325
01:06:18,260 --> 01:06:22,740
Like you don't have to check again for the rest of the working day until there's another

1326
01:06:22,740 --> 01:06:27,700
text at the end of the working day, because it's less than 30 hours.

1327
01:06:27,700 --> 01:06:33,580
So like no matter what happens, you can't, if you're up at that first text and you're

1328
01:06:33,580 --> 01:06:38,580
up at the second text, you can sleep, you can do whatever you need.

1329
01:06:38,580 --> 01:06:42,860
But then the flip side of that is that you can also double sign relatively easily through

1330
01:06:42,860 --> 01:06:44,340
operator error through.

1331
01:06:44,340 --> 01:06:50,220
So like last night was a prime example, the operation that we did where we did some prep

1332
01:06:50,220 --> 01:06:51,980
for it ahead of time.

1333
01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:57,100
We had actually already done the same operation before on a test net and had a pretty high

1334
01:06:57,100 --> 01:07:01,100
confidence that we could pull it off and it went completely to shit.

1335
01:07:01,100 --> 01:07:06,980
And actually, if that had been a cosmos chain, we would have been able to be a lot less decisive

1336
01:07:06,980 --> 01:07:10,740
in trying to solve it because there would have been a really high risk of double signing.

1337
01:07:10,740 --> 01:07:15,980
We were running two full rigs of infrastructure in order to try and minimize the downtime

1338
01:07:15,980 --> 01:07:20,380
when we did the switcheroo, which as it turned out, actually caused more problems than it

1339
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:21,460
solved in the end.

1340
01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:25,740
But I guess it's that thing of like, it's sort of deceptively easy.

1341
01:07:25,740 --> 01:07:32,860
There's definitely a lot of deep gotchas, I think, like any, maybe like any infrastructure.

1342
01:07:32,860 --> 01:07:33,860
Maybe it is easy.

1343
01:07:33,860 --> 01:07:35,860
I guess maybe it is easy to branch things.

1344
01:07:35,860 --> 01:07:41,220
I don't know if it's easier, but at least it's not, I mean, it's not Solana, right?

1345
01:07:41,220 --> 01:07:45,020
You're not spending $3,000 or $4,000 on my feed, right?

1346
01:07:45,020 --> 01:07:46,580
That's a fat boy.

1347
01:07:46,580 --> 01:07:48,700
Like Solana is really hard.

1348
01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:51,380
And even if you're running bare metal, it's really demanding.

1349
01:07:51,380 --> 01:07:56,820
It's like, yeah, or any other like similar to that where you're having a pretty high

1350
01:07:56,820 --> 01:07:58,020
outlay and cost.

1351
01:07:58,020 --> 01:07:59,380
And so you could do it pretty cheap.

1352
01:07:59,380 --> 01:08:02,020
I don't think you can do it well, but you can do it, right?

1353
01:08:02,020 --> 01:08:07,140
So and again, you have a pretty wide window of incompetence.

1354
01:08:07,140 --> 01:08:12,380
And so therefore, you can have 150 validators with different levels of incompetence who

1355
01:08:12,380 --> 01:08:13,380
can keep a chain moving.

1356
01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:15,780
Like there's no issue with that, right?

1357
01:08:15,780 --> 01:08:20,700
And I think my point is this, like you said before, like just the...

1358
01:08:20,700 --> 01:08:23,460
It depends on what the community involvement is on a specific chain.

1359
01:08:23,460 --> 01:08:28,580
It depends on how much motivation there is to be able to keep something going.

1360
01:08:28,580 --> 01:08:34,940
But I do think that the bigger concern here, at least in terms of bear market bullshit,

1361
01:08:34,940 --> 01:08:36,300
it's not the validators.

1362
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:37,540
It's the project teams.

1363
01:08:37,540 --> 01:08:40,860
It is like, can you keep a team together that it's actually going to do something that's

1364
01:08:40,860 --> 01:08:43,900
going to build and grow?

1365
01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:46,980
Or is it always going to be whatever's coming next?

1366
01:08:46,980 --> 01:08:48,860
And there's always a lot of what's coming next, right?

1367
01:08:48,860 --> 01:08:50,740
There's a lot of repeat of ideas.

1368
01:08:50,740 --> 01:08:52,340
There's a lot of EVM compatible chains.

1369
01:08:52,340 --> 01:08:54,620
There's a lot of Cosmos and permission lists.

1370
01:08:54,620 --> 01:08:55,620
There's a lot...

1371
01:08:55,620 --> 01:08:56,860
All these same things exist.

1372
01:08:56,860 --> 01:08:59,900
So it's just like a wave of whatever the hell is coming next.

1373
01:08:59,900 --> 01:09:02,940
And if you're on the backside of that wave, you're kind of fucked, right?

1374
01:09:02,940 --> 01:09:05,980
Because you have projects that are there that can move or you have projects that are not

1375
01:09:05,980 --> 01:09:11,300
going to go anywhere or people put money in and that's a real issue.

1376
01:09:11,300 --> 01:09:12,580
That's kind of the same for every...

1377
01:09:12,580 --> 01:09:13,580
Oh, yeah.

1378
01:09:13,580 --> 01:09:14,580
For sure.

1379
01:09:14,580 --> 01:09:15,580
Yeah.

1380
01:09:15,580 --> 01:09:16,580
It's not...

1381
01:09:16,580 --> 01:09:17,580
I don't think that's Cosmos specific for sure.

1382
01:09:17,580 --> 01:09:18,580
Yeah, absolutely.

1383
01:09:18,580 --> 01:09:24,820
It does make you wonder if this bear market does go on for another year, how many of the

1384
01:09:24,820 --> 01:09:27,180
alt ecosystems will actually...

1385
01:09:27,180 --> 01:09:32,220
I don't know about you guys, but I found the other day I had some Tezos knocking around

1386
01:09:32,220 --> 01:09:33,220
from...

1387
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:36,340
God, maybe it was the 2017 run.

1388
01:09:36,340 --> 01:09:37,340
I don't even know.

1389
01:09:37,340 --> 01:09:41,700
It was some time ago and I was like, did that even recover in the last...

1390
01:09:41,700 --> 01:09:44,140
Okay, somebody in the comments will know.

1391
01:09:44,140 --> 01:09:46,540
Did that even recover in the last bull run?

1392
01:09:46,540 --> 01:09:48,180
I think so, maybe.

1393
01:09:48,180 --> 01:09:49,180
I can't remember.

1394
01:09:49,180 --> 01:09:50,180
No clue.

1395
01:09:50,180 --> 01:09:51,740
Wasn't paying too much attention.

1396
01:09:51,740 --> 01:09:52,740
Yeah.

1397
01:09:52,740 --> 01:09:53,740
No, yeah.

1398
01:09:53,740 --> 01:09:58,340
It'd be interesting to know if the Gen 1 alt coins did recover in the last bull run and

1399
01:09:58,340 --> 01:10:04,100
I guess maybe that will give us an indication on where the chains and projects that survive.

1400
01:10:04,100 --> 01:10:08,940
Because the interesting thing about your thesis, you said, or is that obviously that some core

1401
01:10:08,940 --> 01:10:12,980
teams will collapse and not survive and I think you're right.

1402
01:10:12,980 --> 01:10:18,380
The question will be whether projects that are essentially by that point zombie projects

1403
01:10:18,380 --> 01:10:22,220
still get an uptick in the next bull, sorry.

1404
01:10:22,220 --> 01:10:24,500
Because I don't think the average person...

1405
01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:28,660
I don't know, do people really do that much due diligence even on project teams?

1406
01:10:28,660 --> 01:10:34,340
It feels like in Cosmos, certainly during the season in App Chain Winter, didn't do

1407
01:10:34,340 --> 01:10:39,740
any due diligence, getting airdrops and then aping in further or whatever.

1408
01:10:39,740 --> 01:10:41,740
It didn't feel like there was a lot of...

1409
01:10:41,740 --> 01:10:44,580
I think there's momentum investing.

1410
01:10:44,580 --> 01:10:48,260
Momentum investing means shit's going up and I want to catch that so I'm going to put

1411
01:10:48,260 --> 01:10:50,140
money into something hoping it comes up.

1412
01:10:50,140 --> 01:10:51,140
That's momentum investing.

1413
01:10:51,140 --> 01:10:53,980
I like that there's actually a proper word for moving the investment.

1414
01:10:53,980 --> 01:10:54,980
That's what it is.

1415
01:10:54,980 --> 01:10:55,980
It's momentum investing.

1416
01:10:55,980 --> 01:10:56,980
I'm not thinking about it.

1417
01:10:56,980 --> 01:11:00,900
I'm not looking at what the price is now and what the potential is.

1418
01:11:00,900 --> 01:11:02,100
Shit is going up.

1419
01:11:02,100 --> 01:11:03,100
It's moving fast.

1420
01:11:03,100 --> 01:11:06,060
I can buy something now I can sell tomorrow.

1421
01:11:06,060 --> 01:11:07,260
I feel like there's less risk there.

1422
01:11:07,260 --> 01:11:08,740
It's momentum investing.

1423
01:11:08,740 --> 01:11:13,420
Or that it's an airdrop situation where I'm strategically thinking about what's coming

1424
01:11:13,420 --> 01:11:15,780
next and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1425
01:11:15,780 --> 01:11:17,500
I think there is a...

1426
01:11:17,500 --> 01:11:22,580
In that momentum, you feel a lot in this Cosmos, in the crypto space, I think you have a lot

1427
01:11:22,580 --> 01:11:26,660
of momentum investors, meaning if somebody's going up, then they write it out and they try

1428
01:11:26,660 --> 01:11:30,260
to figure out where to sell.

1429
01:11:30,260 --> 01:11:34,380
The issue which works, but the issue with that is that it's usually early in a chain's

1430
01:11:34,380 --> 01:11:35,700
life when that's happening.

1431
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:43,300
To get something now, it has to be a pretty significant event or some thing that happens

1432
01:11:43,300 --> 01:11:47,260
that really gets people involved back into a specific chain.

1433
01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:51,500
We're seeing now with Bitcoin and ETH and some of the other things that are going on

1434
01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:54,260
because of the conversations related to that.

1435
01:11:54,260 --> 01:12:00,620
I wonder if there'd be some dead man switch for upcoming Cosmos chains.

1436
01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:06,540
I'd say there isn't a commit to their GitHub or a new smart contract in three months.

1437
01:12:06,540 --> 01:12:10,300
Should a prop just pop up being like, let's close it down, boys.

1438
01:12:10,300 --> 01:12:14,300
I feel like something that should exist.

1439
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:15,300
Everything might be seized off.

1440
01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:16,300
Why would that be a piece of?

1441
01:12:16,300 --> 01:12:18,500
It's a piece of everybody we're done here.

1442
01:12:18,500 --> 01:12:19,500
Yeah, exactly.

1443
01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:23,860
They put all the validators into a big wooden crate.

1444
01:12:23,860 --> 01:12:30,020
An old guy in a long thing and a flat cat bangs the nails in.

1445
01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:32,660
And then it's just the end scene from Raiders of the Lost Star.

1446
01:12:32,660 --> 01:12:34,540
You push down a long aisle somewhere.

1447
01:12:34,540 --> 01:12:35,540
Exactly.

1448
01:12:35,540 --> 01:12:36,820
And I don't just mean the servers.

1449
01:12:36,820 --> 01:12:38,220
I mean the validators.

1450
01:12:38,220 --> 01:12:44,780
I mean, they just like a guy comes to a Schultz's bunker, 200 floors below sea level, bag over

1451
01:12:44,780 --> 01:12:46,660
the head, extraordinary rendition.

1452
01:12:46,660 --> 01:12:48,380
You're going to the government facility.

1453
01:12:48,380 --> 01:12:49,380
Everybody's in the crate.

1454
01:12:49,380 --> 01:12:52,060
You're headed to the Titanic, son.

1455
01:12:52,060 --> 01:12:54,460
Here you go in a carbon fiber tube.

1456
01:12:54,460 --> 01:12:59,660
Yeah, you're in this ten foot by eight foot box with 100 other validators.

1457
01:12:59,660 --> 01:13:02,460
Jacob G. Yes, but who's looking at Juno right now?

1458
01:13:02,460 --> 01:13:03,820
Who's looking at it?

1459
01:13:03,820 --> 01:13:07,300
Top men know who top men.

1460
01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:08,300
Sorry.

1461
01:13:08,300 --> 01:13:09,300
That's how she that's how she facts.

1462
01:13:09,300 --> 01:13:11,100
That's a great that's a really what the Juno is.

1463
01:13:11,100 --> 01:13:13,100
I'm a big raider.

1464
01:13:13,100 --> 01:13:14,620
But yeah, it's pushing down.

1465
01:13:14,620 --> 01:13:16,620
That is actually Rama.

1466
01:13:16,620 --> 01:13:19,020
Who's looking at it?

1467
01:13:19,020 --> 01:13:20,020
And in race, right?

1468
01:13:20,020 --> 01:13:21,020
Yeah, exactly.

1469
01:13:21,020 --> 01:13:22,020
I did real life.

1470
01:13:22,020 --> 01:13:23,020
I did Juno.

1471
01:13:23,020 --> 01:13:24,020
Yeah.

1472
01:13:24,020 --> 01:13:29,900
Standing over the over the over the wood box going, ah, fuck this.

1473
01:13:29,900 --> 01:13:34,740
Yeah, maybe just maybe just let's just let the sleepy dogs lie on this one.

1474
01:13:34,740 --> 01:13:38,020
One of them is holding the nail and the other one's hammering it in.

1475
01:13:38,020 --> 01:13:44,140
I think that you know what the only thing that could be I don't know, is it too soon

1476
01:13:44,140 --> 01:13:45,660
to make jokes about the submarine?

1477
01:13:45,660 --> 01:13:47,540
Yeah, I mean, I did.

1478
01:13:47,540 --> 01:13:53,860
So I mean, yeah, I mean, something, something.

1479
01:13:53,860 --> 01:13:57,260
Something sponsored by something something old coins.

1480
01:13:57,260 --> 01:14:03,700
Something like you can feel you can assemble your own joke around that.

1481
01:14:03,700 --> 01:14:06,780
So yeah, is it just me?

1482
01:14:06,780 --> 01:14:11,940
Was it like hard to feel that sorry for a bunch of billionaires going down in the submarine?

1483
01:14:11,940 --> 01:14:14,980
I felt sorry for the pilot, I guess.

1484
01:14:14,980 --> 01:14:17,060
Yeah, just I felt sorry for the submarine.

1485
01:14:17,060 --> 01:14:19,660
I was like, man, that thing was probably kind of well engineered.

1486
01:14:19,660 --> 01:14:21,660
Like I didn't deserve that.

1487
01:14:21,660 --> 01:14:24,060
I could have been like like that.

1488
01:14:24,060 --> 01:14:25,060
Exactly.

1489
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:26,220
The submarine perhaps.

1490
01:14:26,220 --> 01:14:33,780
I did watch a couple of like videos post that whole saga and there was one of with there

1491
01:14:33,780 --> 01:14:38,340
was one with the guy talking about like constructing it and there was like a few short clips of

1492
01:14:38,340 --> 01:14:40,380
like him talking about it.

1493
01:14:40,380 --> 01:14:43,180
And he's like, yeah.

1494
01:14:43,180 --> 01:14:46,780
Yeah, we've broken a few rules to build this.

1495
01:14:46,780 --> 01:14:50,380
And yeah, he also go down with the ship as well.

1496
01:14:50,380 --> 01:14:52,940
Yeah, he went down with it.

1497
01:14:52,940 --> 01:14:54,940
The designer was on it.

1498
01:14:54,940 --> 01:14:55,940
Yeah.

1499
01:14:55,940 --> 01:15:01,220
But so people usually make this Titanium, but we didn't have it on the Titanic as well.

1500
01:15:01,220 --> 01:15:03,220
Didn't the designer literally go on?

1501
01:15:03,220 --> 01:15:05,220
I'm going to Google this now.

1502
01:15:05,220 --> 01:15:06,220
I'm not sure.

1503
01:15:06,220 --> 01:15:07,220
I'm not sure about that actually.

1504
01:15:07,220 --> 01:15:08,220
That's a good question.

1505
01:15:08,220 --> 01:15:13,220
Well, so like this piece I bought this at Walmart.

1506
01:15:13,220 --> 01:15:14,220
He did.

1507
01:15:14,220 --> 01:15:15,220
He did.

1508
01:15:15,220 --> 01:15:16,220
Yeah.

1509
01:15:16,220 --> 01:15:19,500
The sum itself though, it had gone down several times before.

1510
01:15:19,500 --> 01:15:21,420
So like fatigue.

1511
01:15:21,420 --> 01:15:22,420
It did.

1512
01:15:22,420 --> 01:15:23,420
Yes, it did.

1513
01:15:23,420 --> 01:15:24,420
Yeah.

1514
01:15:24,420 --> 01:15:25,420
And that's the problem with carbon fiber.

1515
01:15:25,420 --> 01:15:30,420
Like for people that ride bikes know that carbon fiber, like it gets destroyed catastrophically.

1516
01:15:30,420 --> 01:15:31,940
Like it doesn't just break.

1517
01:15:31,940 --> 01:15:32,940
It goes brittle.

1518
01:15:32,940 --> 01:15:33,940
Plus, yeah, exactly.

1519
01:15:33,940 --> 01:15:35,940
Plus it had like a glue joint and shit.

1520
01:15:35,940 --> 01:15:40,380
Oh, that's again, that's super common for carbon fiber and the bonds can be really, really

1521
01:15:40,380 --> 01:15:41,380
strong.

1522
01:15:41,380 --> 01:15:45,060
But the point is that carbon fiber flexes like hundreds of thousands of times, like loads

1523
01:15:45,060 --> 01:15:46,540
of times and it's fatigue life.

1524
01:15:46,540 --> 01:15:49,180
And then it goes bam and catastrophically fails.

1525
01:15:49,180 --> 01:15:50,180
Yeah.

1526
01:15:50,180 --> 01:15:56,260
And this is the reason that Russian nuclear submarine hulls are made out of titanium,

1527
01:15:56,260 --> 01:15:57,260
not carbon fiber.

1528
01:15:57,260 --> 01:15:58,260
Sounds pretty sure.

1529
01:15:58,260 --> 01:16:04,700
And why also the bike behind me is made out of titanium coincidentally sold off from Russian

1530
01:16:04,700 --> 01:16:09,380
stocks at the end of the Cold War and not carbon fiber because I don't fucking trust

1531
01:16:09,380 --> 01:16:13,500
things that might catastrophically fail when I'm doing 70 kilometers an hour downhill.

1532
01:16:13,500 --> 01:16:14,500
That's not a...

1533
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:16,300
I thought CF was like the bike material now.

1534
01:16:16,300 --> 01:16:17,300
It is.

1535
01:16:17,300 --> 01:16:18,300
Oh, it is.

1536
01:16:18,300 --> 01:16:19,860
And your lifespan is what they say.

1537
01:16:19,860 --> 01:16:20,860
Oh, really?

1538
01:16:20,860 --> 01:16:22,580
After five years, you're just supposed to get rid of your frame.

1539
01:16:22,580 --> 01:16:23,580
Oh, shit.

1540
01:16:23,580 --> 01:16:24,580
Yeah.

1541
01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:28,220
And five years is a lot when you've just dumped fucking like what, 10 grand into a frame.

1542
01:16:28,220 --> 01:16:29,220
Yeah, probably.

1543
01:16:29,220 --> 01:16:30,220
Yeah.

1544
01:16:30,220 --> 01:16:31,220
Well, you can get a carbon fiber frame.

1545
01:16:31,220 --> 01:16:33,220
You can get a veggie $2,000 or so.

1546
01:16:33,220 --> 01:16:34,220
But yeah, the principle holds.

1547
01:16:34,220 --> 01:16:41,900
I mean, the frame behind me is 24 years old and literally made out of Russian aerospace

1548
01:16:41,900 --> 01:16:42,900
titanium.

1549
01:16:42,900 --> 01:16:46,540
And I imagine it will probably outlast me.

1550
01:16:46,540 --> 01:16:54,340
So I had a friend who actually designed his own frame and had it made in China out of titanium.

1551
01:16:54,340 --> 01:16:56,260
And yeah, yeah, you can do that.

1552
01:16:56,260 --> 01:16:59,180
Dulcy is currently planning on doing this, I believe.

1553
01:16:59,180 --> 01:17:02,780
I'm curbing my own enthusiasm, but yeah, I'm trying not to.

1554
01:17:02,780 --> 01:17:04,260
I even bought tires for it.

1555
01:17:04,260 --> 01:17:07,460
I just bought some, some Chris King carbon rims.

1556
01:17:07,460 --> 01:17:08,460
You're really curbing it.

1557
01:17:08,460 --> 01:17:09,460
I can see.

1558
01:17:09,460 --> 01:17:10,460
I know exactly.

1559
01:17:10,460 --> 01:17:14,260
I bought tires for a bike that I haven't even sent to China to be made.

1560
01:17:14,260 --> 01:17:17,180
Chris King, that's classy shit.

1561
01:17:17,180 --> 01:17:18,180
Poorland local.

1562
01:17:18,180 --> 01:17:19,380
So I was like, I should probably support that.

1563
01:17:19,380 --> 01:17:20,380
Is it really?

1564
01:17:20,380 --> 01:17:21,380
Yes, it is.

1565
01:17:21,380 --> 01:17:22,380
Yeah.

1566
01:17:22,380 --> 01:17:23,380
I have a Chris King headset.

1567
01:17:23,380 --> 01:17:24,380
It's very good.

1568
01:17:24,380 --> 01:17:25,380
Oh, nice.

1569
01:17:25,380 --> 01:17:26,380
It stands up to bad weather.

1570
01:17:26,380 --> 01:17:29,220
Well, which makes sense now I know Pacific Northwest.

1571
01:17:29,220 --> 01:17:30,220
I'm like, oh, okay.

1572
01:17:30,220 --> 01:17:31,220
Yeah.

1573
01:17:31,220 --> 01:17:32,220
Fucking wet as hell.

1574
01:17:32,220 --> 01:17:33,620
I haven't even opened the box yet.

1575
01:17:33,620 --> 01:17:38,260
It's in my garage and I'm just, every time I walk through, I'm like, I shouldn't go buy

1576
01:17:38,260 --> 01:17:39,260
more components.

1577
01:17:39,260 --> 01:17:42,100
And then I'm like, I should start checking for more components.

1578
01:17:42,100 --> 01:17:43,180
It's part of the process.

1579
01:17:43,180 --> 01:17:47,460
You just collect them for a long period of time and then eventually you suddenly have

1580
01:17:47,460 --> 01:17:50,660
all the components and you're just like, well, this is happening.

1581
01:17:50,660 --> 01:17:57,940
So what my mates did was he bought a donor bike.

1582
01:17:57,940 --> 01:18:02,380
He bought a good bike that he liked with all the shit on it, all the fruit.

1583
01:18:02,380 --> 01:18:07,300
And then he just got the frame made by his own design.

1584
01:18:07,300 --> 01:18:13,180
He even had like even cut out like his own logo that he designed and had it welded to

1585
01:18:13,180 --> 01:18:14,660
the front as well.

1586
01:18:14,660 --> 01:18:15,660
That's pretty cool.

1587
01:18:15,660 --> 01:18:16,660
Yeah.

1588
01:18:16,660 --> 01:18:19,460
It went pretty baller on it.

1589
01:18:19,460 --> 01:18:24,420
But yeah, so he just bought this like good donor bike second hand, took all the fucking

1590
01:18:24,420 --> 01:18:31,020
fruit off it and put it onto the, the, the new one that he designed and fucking loves

1591
01:18:31,020 --> 01:18:32,020
it.

1592
01:18:32,020 --> 01:18:33,020
It looks pretty sweet too.

1593
01:18:33,020 --> 01:18:34,020
It's light as fuck.

1594
01:18:34,020 --> 01:18:35,020
Yeah.

1595
01:18:35,020 --> 01:18:36,020
Yeah.

1596
01:18:36,020 --> 01:18:37,020
Tatan is pretty cool.

1597
01:18:37,020 --> 01:18:38,020
Yeah.

1598
01:18:38,020 --> 01:18:39,020
He's pretty cool.

1599
01:18:39,020 --> 01:18:40,020
Yeah.

1600
01:18:40,020 --> 01:18:42,820
Of the eight million YouTube videos on this fucking disaster.

1601
01:18:42,820 --> 01:18:46,460
You should, the ones I would watch, James Cameron, you guys watch any of those, him

1602
01:18:46,460 --> 01:18:50,780
actually talking about it because he, he, because he's a big kind of deep huge, right?

1603
01:18:50,780 --> 01:18:57,060
Like he, he built like a carbon steel sphere that went down to, I think he's gone like

1604
01:18:57,060 --> 01:18:59,540
two or three times X this distance, right?

1605
01:18:59,540 --> 01:19:00,540
He went down to what?

1606
01:19:00,540 --> 01:19:01,540
Yeah.

1607
01:19:01,540 --> 01:19:04,140
He went down to like, he's been down to, he's been down to the Mariana.

1608
01:19:04,140 --> 01:19:05,140
The Mariana trench, right?

1609
01:19:05,140 --> 01:19:08,860
Which I think is like really ocean, which is why he wrote this.

1610
01:19:08,860 --> 01:19:14,860
So he's been to the Titanic because before Titanic, when they did the film, wait.

1611
01:19:14,860 --> 01:19:15,860
Yeah.

1612
01:19:15,860 --> 01:19:20,180
No, he, because I think he built, he built one of those for that expedition after they

1613
01:19:20,180 --> 01:19:21,180
found it or whatever.

1614
01:19:21,180 --> 01:19:22,180
Yeah.

1615
01:19:22,180 --> 01:19:24,780
He's been to the Titanic and then he's also been to the, the Mariana trench and that's

1616
01:19:24,780 --> 01:19:26,140
where the abyss comes from.

1617
01:19:26,140 --> 01:19:28,380
You know, the film, the abyss.

1618
01:19:28,380 --> 01:19:29,820
A pretty good movie till the ending.

1619
01:19:29,820 --> 01:19:30,820
Yeah.

1620
01:19:30,820 --> 01:19:31,820
Well, there's two endings on there.

1621
01:19:31,820 --> 01:19:32,820
There are.

1622
01:19:32,820 --> 01:19:33,820
There are.

1623
01:19:33,820 --> 01:19:34,820
What?

1624
01:19:34,820 --> 01:19:35,820
There's a second ending.

1625
01:19:35,820 --> 01:19:36,820
There is.

1626
01:19:36,820 --> 01:19:38,820
There's an alternative ending that they made.

1627
01:19:38,820 --> 01:19:39,820
No, they're okay.

1628
01:19:39,820 --> 01:19:40,820
Yeah.

1629
01:19:40,820 --> 01:19:41,820
Yeah.

1630
01:19:41,820 --> 01:19:42,820
So, but okay.

1631
01:19:42,820 --> 01:19:43,820
All right.

1632
01:19:43,820 --> 01:19:44,820
So, okay.

1633
01:19:44,820 --> 01:19:51,260
So before, before we go on, it's just very important that I fact check the Titanic thing.

1634
01:19:51,260 --> 01:19:53,940
The designer of the Titanic did go down with the Titanic.

1635
01:19:53,940 --> 01:19:55,380
So that's another way.

1636
01:19:55,380 --> 01:19:56,380
No shit.

1637
01:19:56,380 --> 01:19:58,060
I had to remember that correctly.

1638
01:19:58,060 --> 01:20:04,420
So it is actually a way in which the, the, the, the submarine going to the Titanic.

1639
01:20:04,420 --> 01:20:10,900
It has a weird circular version of the, a little bit, which has the hubris of the designer

1640
01:20:10,900 --> 01:20:16,340
resulting in the designer's own untimely death, which is, is kind of yeah.

1641
01:20:16,340 --> 01:20:20,140
History doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes, right?

1642
01:20:20,140 --> 01:20:21,540
So that's funny.

1643
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:25,700
But the other thing as well as one of the guys on, it was just described as like this,

1644
01:20:25,700 --> 01:20:27,060
like an explorer or an adventurer.

1645
01:20:27,060 --> 01:20:33,580
And he's basically like a nobody until like in 2017, he shows up in the, I think the UAE

1646
01:20:33,580 --> 01:20:34,580
very wealthy.

1647
01:20:34,580 --> 01:20:35,580
Yeah.

1648
01:20:35,580 --> 01:20:39,660
And there's a Wikipedia page and it literally has this citation saying like, some expansion

1649
01:20:39,660 --> 01:20:42,460
is needed to understand the source of his wealth.

1650
01:20:42,460 --> 01:20:49,300
And I'm like, I like you add the HMRC are both asking the same question.

1651
01:20:49,300 --> 01:20:56,260
Both the Wikipedia mods and the tax authority are both 100% aligned on that one.

1652
01:20:56,260 --> 01:20:59,580
They all have a lot of interest in where that wealth came from.

1653
01:20:59,580 --> 01:21:00,580
That's funny.

1654
01:21:00,580 --> 01:21:04,260
So my entrance is 36,000 feet.

1655
01:21:04,260 --> 01:21:05,420
It's a deep way.

1656
01:21:05,420 --> 01:21:11,020
And the, I think Titanic says a 12,000 or 12,500 feet or something like that.

1657
01:21:11,020 --> 01:21:16,060
And I think they found that the remains of this vehicle at 13,000 maybe.

1658
01:21:16,060 --> 01:21:18,220
So it's about three X depth.

1659
01:21:18,220 --> 01:21:22,420
I'm saying, are you saying that he went down there or he built a vest?

1660
01:21:22,420 --> 01:21:23,940
No, no, he built a vessel.

1661
01:21:23,940 --> 01:21:24,940
Yeah.

1662
01:21:24,940 --> 01:21:26,980
The vessel you could actually, there's a good YouTube video on this too.

1663
01:21:26,980 --> 01:21:29,700
So he built like a, I don't know what the, what the material is, but he basically built

1664
01:21:29,700 --> 01:21:34,100
a sphere and that sphere is contained within a larger vehicle.

1665
01:21:34,100 --> 01:21:37,260
And they went down to the bottom of the area and trench with that.

1666
01:21:37,260 --> 01:21:42,060
So like, it's a pretty, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a difference between dollar.

1667
01:21:42,060 --> 01:21:44,180
This is a, this is a dollars conversation.

1668
01:21:44,180 --> 01:21:47,900
So Cameron's showing up with like $1,000 bills falling out of his pockets.

1669
01:21:47,900 --> 01:21:48,900
Right.

1670
01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:49,900
And we want to build something to go down to this.

1671
01:21:49,900 --> 01:21:52,780
And so they, they build like a real structure on it.

1672
01:21:52,780 --> 01:21:57,020
This other one that this thing that just, that just imploded was not at that same budget.

1673
01:21:57,020 --> 01:21:58,020
Right.

1674
01:21:58,020 --> 01:21:59,020
Like they were trying to do it in a way because like they were like, hey, I'm gonna go get

1675
01:21:59,020 --> 01:22:00,020
a job.

1676
01:22:00,020 --> 01:22:02,020
Like they were like, Hey, we want to hire kids out of college and all this type of stuff.

1677
01:22:02,020 --> 01:22:06,460
And we don't hire these, we don't want to hire, you know, naval experts and we don't

1678
01:22:06,460 --> 01:22:08,060
want to hire submarine experts.

1679
01:22:08,060 --> 01:22:09,780
And that's, that's a nice thing to say.

1680
01:22:09,780 --> 01:22:12,340
We want to get out of these old ways of thinking about it.

1681
01:22:12,340 --> 01:22:13,340
That's true.

1682
01:22:13,340 --> 01:22:14,340
That's one way of saying it.

1683
01:22:14,340 --> 01:22:18,220
The other way of saying is I can't afford those people because, you know, because there's

1684
01:22:18,220 --> 01:22:19,220
dollars there.

1685
01:22:19,220 --> 01:22:21,340
So yeah, but yeah, 36,000.

1686
01:22:21,340 --> 01:22:27,060
And so like, you know, put this perspective like Marion Trench is like 10,000 meters deep.

1687
01:22:27,060 --> 01:22:28,060
Right.

1688
01:22:28,060 --> 01:22:28,900
Yes.

1689
01:22:28,900 --> 01:22:33,180
So the depth of most nuclear submarines is like a thousand meters.

1690
01:22:33,180 --> 01:22:34,700
No, it's way less than that.

1691
01:22:34,700 --> 01:22:35,700
Right.

1692
01:22:35,700 --> 01:22:40,340
I thought, I thought the deepest subject goes to like 400 meters or something like that.

1693
01:22:40,340 --> 01:22:41,340
That's what I was thinking too about a thousand meters.

1694
01:22:41,340 --> 01:22:42,340
That's like the operating depth.

1695
01:22:42,340 --> 01:22:43,340
Oh yeah.

1696
01:22:43,340 --> 01:22:44,340
I'm sorry.

1697
01:22:44,340 --> 01:22:45,340
Yeah.

1698
01:22:45,340 --> 01:22:46,340
It's like substantially deeper.

1699
01:22:46,340 --> 01:22:49,660
In fact, it might be deeper than a thousand meters because it's one of those things that

1700
01:22:49,660 --> 01:22:51,620
people haven't really tested.

1701
01:22:51,620 --> 01:22:55,380
But obviously the Americans lost a couple of submarines that way.

1702
01:22:55,380 --> 01:22:56,380
Yeah.

1703
01:22:56,380 --> 01:23:00,500
All the Russian sublosses were in shallow water like Kersk and stuff like that.

1704
01:23:00,500 --> 01:23:01,500
They're in relatively shallow water.

1705
01:23:01,500 --> 01:23:04,860
So they just bottomed out like 400 meters or whatever on the seabed.

1706
01:23:04,860 --> 01:23:10,660
But I think was it Thresher and Skipjack with the two American ones that were lost and they

1707
01:23:10,660 --> 01:23:13,940
both imploded catastrophically.

1708
01:23:13,940 --> 01:23:18,260
And then there was the Gomar Explorer one, which was, do you remember that was that one

1709
01:23:18,260 --> 01:23:22,580
that the Russians lost and it landed on the seabed during the Cold War?

1710
01:23:22,580 --> 01:23:28,220
And then the American, the CIA got like an external gas exploration ship and tried to

1711
01:23:28,220 --> 01:23:32,300
pick it up off the seabed and they actually managed to get about half of it.

1712
01:23:32,300 --> 01:23:33,300
No, I didn't see that.

1713
01:23:33,300 --> 01:23:35,020
I do a little story of them.

1714
01:23:35,020 --> 01:23:37,660
It's super illegal as well because that's a maritime grave.

1715
01:23:37,660 --> 01:23:41,500
So it's kind of not, the interesting thing is at the moment there's a whole bunch of

1716
01:23:41,500 --> 01:23:45,940
stuff about international salvage because there's a bunch of World War II ships that

1717
01:23:45,940 --> 01:23:51,220
are obviously huge battleships, loads and loads of steel, useful for salvage, right?

1718
01:23:51,220 --> 01:23:57,500
And they're being hoovered up off the seabed primarily by kind of dodgy actors from countries

1719
01:23:57,500 --> 01:24:01,020
that aren't necessarily that interested in international maritime salvage law they're

1720
01:24:01,020 --> 01:24:02,660
doing on the sly.

1721
01:24:02,660 --> 01:24:08,500
And then like, you know, the Americans and the British and like mainly the kind of larger

1722
01:24:08,500 --> 01:24:12,940
colonial style nations that were involved in World War II, were all a bit like, ooh,

1723
01:24:12,940 --> 01:24:13,940
they're war graves.

1724
01:24:13,940 --> 01:24:15,980
And to be fair, they are war graves and they should be undisturbed.

1725
01:24:15,980 --> 01:24:17,300
I'm not disputing that.

1726
01:24:17,300 --> 01:24:21,820
It is also just like, you know, you guys have disturbed a few war graves in your time as

1727
01:24:21,820 --> 01:24:23,260
well when it suited you to.

1728
01:24:23,260 --> 01:24:27,220
So I guess it's commercial companies doing it this time.

1729
01:24:27,220 --> 01:24:28,900
So that's kind of fucking lame.

1730
01:24:28,900 --> 01:24:30,900
I don't know.

1731
01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:35,500
That makes it even more better because capitalism is really the only way to go and full fledged

1732
01:24:35,500 --> 01:24:36,500
capitalists.

1733
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:39,020
We need to get rid of all of these regulations.

1734
01:24:39,020 --> 01:24:43,500
We just, we just the type of 4th of July baby flakes about these war graves are just

1735
01:24:43,500 --> 01:24:47,700
right, yeah, fuck it, it's still taking the salvage, still tickets.

1736
01:24:47,700 --> 01:24:48,980
If they don't sell it's bad.

1737
01:24:48,980 --> 01:24:49,980
If they do sell it's good.

1738
01:24:49,980 --> 01:24:53,540
What about we tokenize the dis-urgent?

1739
01:24:53,540 --> 01:24:54,540
We don't even need it.

1740
01:24:54,540 --> 01:25:00,620
We could just use both of Iota and build like this came from this geolocation beauty.

1741
01:25:00,620 --> 01:25:03,500
Or two things.

1742
01:25:03,500 --> 01:25:07,340
If nobody's seen Das Boot, fucking awesome movie, you guys should watch that movie.

1743
01:25:07,340 --> 01:25:10,540
You guys are doing that fucking great movie.

1744
01:25:10,540 --> 01:25:12,740
Also about submarines that are beyond their crush.

1745
01:25:12,740 --> 01:25:15,260
Is it better than the hunt for red October?

1746
01:25:15,260 --> 01:25:16,860
Way better than hunt for red October.

1747
01:25:16,860 --> 01:25:19,460
Dude, fucking Sean Connery doing that goddamn Russian accent.

1748
01:25:19,460 --> 01:25:20,460
Are you kidding me?

1749
01:25:20,460 --> 01:25:21,460
Ah, Tashkivana.

1750
01:25:21,460 --> 01:25:22,460
That's insane.

1751
01:25:22,460 --> 01:25:28,460
I used to fish off that island right there.

1752
01:25:28,460 --> 01:25:33,260
I would have liked to have seen Montana.

1753
01:25:33,260 --> 01:25:34,260
Sam Neal, right?

1754
01:25:34,260 --> 01:25:35,260
Yeah.

1755
01:25:35,260 --> 01:25:39,820
Yeah, we managed to convince for a very long time my wife back when we were dating that

1756
01:25:39,820 --> 01:25:40,820
Das Boot.

1757
01:25:40,820 --> 01:25:45,300
We just kept referring to it as a comedy, like a German comedy.

1758
01:25:45,300 --> 01:25:48,460
One day she put two and two together and was like, wait, wait, wait.

1759
01:25:48,460 --> 01:25:53,980
That's the film, that's the harrowing film about the young German submariners.

1760
01:25:53,980 --> 01:25:54,980
Fuck, I love that movie.

1761
01:25:54,980 --> 01:25:58,540
It's super controversial because it humanized the enemy.

1762
01:25:58,540 --> 01:26:13,940
You guys are treating it like it's some kind of like a...