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What the spreadsheet? Yeah.

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The calendar.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from

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independent validator teams.

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Welcome to Game of Nodes, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos from

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independent validators. And now sponsored by Coca Cola. We're

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here with the uptown funk, the funky drummer,

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funky. And we're going to be talking, we're going to be talking

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a little bit about polka dot, obviously, as well as our usual

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subject, the Cosmos as I mean, I literally actually said that

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like, it was in the title of the podcast. So that shouldn't be a

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surprise for anybody that Cosmos can come up. And yeah, apparently

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the spreadsheet is mess. And usurper is in Key West and

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somehow I actually make that rhyme. So doxxed. If you want to

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go meet usurper face to face to get some rhino swag, you need

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to get your ass down to Key West right now.

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What do you think he's like, got a trunk full trunk full swag?

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I know, having now got this fine, fine, needle cast apparel is

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that the American word that I carry, I carry swag on me at all

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times, just in case there is an opportunity for your ping to a

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key stakeholder, you know, and expanding our burgeoning.

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Are you being legitimately serious right now?

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And does it include a shirt cannon? Like is it handing or is

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it like?

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It's not going to kill more than I'm not interested. That would

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be my policy or merchandise. I am actually, I'm closer to

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serious than I should be in that. Yes, I do carry stuff around

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with me. Do I carry like a hoodie in every adult size? No, that

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would be that would be like an extra rucksack to carry it all

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times. usurper has a stack of hats with him from the chat. So

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there you go. Also, the question is he's in the chat. So he

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literally isn't a bar. He's literally in a bar with probably

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maybe like one Apple Airport in while he's just doing something

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much more enjoyable like drinking beer.

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Pretending to listen to the misses. He said he was like doing

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a jet ski tour around Key West. So I guess that's finished.

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That sounds ridiculous and fun and a completely legitimate

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reason for not being on the podcast this week. It's more

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legit than being at the pub. Commodore's Boathouse usurper.

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Go check that place out. Great happy hour. Good food. Awesome

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drinks. So this is happy hour now too, I think, isn't it?

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This week's episode of the podcast also sponsored by

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Commodore's Boathouse.

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Look, we are allowed to say we're having now just Shield Coca

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Cola and Commodore's Boathouse. I think we could actually get

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sponsored. Be picked up by the algorithm. Yeah, I mean, I think

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maybe we're missing a trick on doing actual sponsorship

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sharing at a more semi-professional level. We just need

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there's just I think one thing missing that sponsors will be

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looking for. It's viewers. It's viewers. The answer is viewers.

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So can you get in trouble for saying someone's a sponsor if

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they're not? Because like what if they're like embarrassed and

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they're like, whoa, whoa, we do not sponsor them.

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I'm almost certain. I'm almost certain that sounds like sort of

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shit that somebody could sue you for in America. That sounds

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really fucking likely. I think you're covered by parody. I

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would think you're covered by parody in the UK. Is parody a

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law now? Well, we don't have it like you do freedom of

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speech, but you do have like the boys would be boys. We don't

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have freedom of speech. In the UK, we literally do not have

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legally enshrined freedom of speech, but we do have that if

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somebody tries to do something particularly fucking stupid.

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It will it kind of depends. Like sometimes you would get it

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depends on the judge, I guess that's the problem of not

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having these things enshrined right in a constitution is

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that yeah, a judge will probably be like this is fucking

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idiotic. I'm gonna throw this out. And then like you on a

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different day might get a different judge and they might

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go, ah, but the person who made the complaint is super rich

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Russian oligarch and I happen to be given money by or have

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political sympathies that leave me in that direction and then

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I am actually going to fucking charge you with a crime and

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then you'd be like, what the fuck? So that's why you need a

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constitution and Bill of Rights folks that is written down

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rather than implicit like the British one. Wait, wait, what?

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Hold on. Well done America. The British don't have an actual

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constitution like a Bill of Rights. It's implicit. Of

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course not. It's it's there's an entirely but this is the

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thing like about all all this British political process is

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basically based on an imagined set of this is how we

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conduct ourselves to the extent that there's like this to the

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height of government, right? So there's this idea of things

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like parliament collective responsibility, which is that

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essentially like the cabinet makes decisions for the

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country and they need to own those decisions collectively

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and if there's a mistake made on your watch, you're the

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minister of constable, you resign like over pretty minor

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things historically like embarrassment and what it turns

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out that because that's just like you know, it's just an

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honor code like what happened in the last 15 years with all

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the insane political stuff that we've had just like you folks

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have had is that ministers went, yeah, I fucked up but I was

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just checks notes thinking about the will of the people and

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I don't feel that embarrassed. I'm not going to resign and

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then it turned out that you know, people can just it basically

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turns out people do whatever the fuck they want because there's

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no rules about anything and then people have gone, oh, fuck.

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Yeah, actually it turns out writing stuff down has some value

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and we've also seen that the like, you know, right to protest

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is the big one in the UK where essentially like the government

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did loads of really unpopular shit. So people protested and

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then like, yeah, we're just going to say you can't protest

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within like 500 minutes of parliament, then a mile of

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parliament, then blah, blah, blah, blah and that's why like

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you know, stuff like the fucking the toad pony fuckers

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that they've just you know, the new guy the fucking valent

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yeah, King Charles fucking. Thank you for the fucking history

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of not laws that exist. Your microphone has an issue by the

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way. So sure, most of us only caught about fuck all of that.

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Yeah, it's like, yes, it's it keeps cutting out

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micro cut ads. I want it known that history time with the fray

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is like my favorite time of Game of Nose and this half the

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reason why I sign on at least half the reason why I sign on.

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Now you're muted so can't help I mean half the reason that's

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that's very, very generous, you'll see but but yeah, okay, I mean I

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would I would I think I think might be working anyway, we've

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got we've got the real funk here. Let's let's let's stop talking

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about British political process because it's really depressing

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and the fact that we don't have a bill of rights. So we did have

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the only okay it's the only bit bill of rights we did have we

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had like the European one and the European Human Rights Act

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and then we brexit and now they're just trying to throw it

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out. So we we we don't we don't got shit. No shit. Yeah. Have

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you even brexit it yet? It's like yeah, it's a whip right?

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Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's just fucking yeah fuck those guys.

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People want to break so fucking stupid. That's the TRDR. But

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a lot of people who wanted things like that basically wanted to

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erode personal rights and liberties and freedoms because

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the only place they were written down was in European law.

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So they go like oh well we can just we we don't want workers

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rights. We don't want working time directive. We don't want

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that stuff. We just leave Europe and then we can just

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abolish those laws. Environmental standards being

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another one food standards and other one that people get

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pissed off about because they have mates that run big

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multinationals where the food standards are shit. You know,

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it's it's always key bono, right? You know, not the guy from

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the YouTube but anyway, the YouTube the YouTube and then

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hey, aside, but the story of the construction of the YouTube

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very, very interesting recommend looking up. I'm going to

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drill through the week and that's talk to funky when we're

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still less than 10 minutes in. So if we can get to talking to

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our guests before 10 minutes are up, then Bendy won't won't

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give me loads of shit via via. We haven't even done the news.

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I'll say what? I'll do drill to the week. You can do news now.

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Then we'll talk to funk deal. Let's do it. All right. Okay.

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Okay. The tweet of the week is from the section marked sorrow

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and it just says belittle me call me shit throw hair at me.

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I mean that's like a way of life. Did you know that the what's

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it called the furry con in Pittsburgh had like 50,000

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people there this year? That's kind of unrelated but

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throwing something about throwing hair and belittling me

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like those two connected for me. Is that your persona?

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Furry con is like we're a bunch of furries go to you know a

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conference and have like orgies and stuff. So this year in

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Pittsburgh, there was like 50,000 attendees. For those of us

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who don't know, can you just like explain just a little bit

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what a furry is like? So you have no context for what a

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furry is. Oh my god. Okay. So I'm the people who don't know.

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People know. Surely. Surely. The real question now is what is

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your first owner? Ferry persona. Now I'm making some guesses

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here as to what a furry actually is but if anything I

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would have to say I'm probably like

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what are those like rat looking things with the long beaks but

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they're pretty cute and they fucking roll over when you pat

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them? A possum? No. It's like a capoeira. A capoeira? That's

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like a Japanese thing. No. No. No. Capoeira is like South

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America and they have quite a blunt snout. There's in fact one

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in the end in the end title card again. No, it's the capoeira

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that's the capoeira. There is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be a

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capoeira. But but but you'd also be like you're

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incised right because the the the outfits. Yeah. They're not

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particularly they're not really like supposed to be like

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um what's the what's the word that I'm looking for about

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accurate to a to the morphism of a creature anatomical

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anatomically correct. They're very impressionistic. That's

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that's a way of putting it. So, liberties have been taken

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with regards to design. Yeah, would you not like I don't mean

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this is like a route that is not a rude hot take now but do

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you not think that you would be more of like a bird than a

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mammal? Or maybe a marsupial? Why a bird? That might be a

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bird. I'm sure we see that last one there. Australia.

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I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing the context of what

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furry is. I don't I don't fucking know what a furry is.

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Okay. So, a furry is someone who basically like dresses up

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like an animal to because they're like sexually attracted

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to them. I guess. I don't know. It's necessarily like

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they're attracted to animals so much as like the idea of

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like having sex with a anamorphic or yeah, looking

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fox. So, if you look up like a furry costume, they're

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basically like in cosplay but intended to be like

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semi-sexualized. It's super fascinating like subculture.

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And the fray you think I would be a fucking

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bird? Yeah, maybe. I could see that. Okay. All right. I mean

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it's very common. Fox is very popular. I don't know how to

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reflect this conversation in the spreadsheet. Good luck. I've

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actually lost the spreadsheet this week. It's it's been

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it's been it's been renamed to something absolutely

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ridiculous. It took a little bit to find it. It still says

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game of nodes but it's podcast corporate goals in okay arts.

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I don't know what a fucking okay I read. Oh, that's thanks to

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Rama. Oh, an okay. It's an objective key result, I believe.

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Oh, I feel like we may have also been on the end of some

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okay ours in this time. Oh, you better believe it at acorns.

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Like every literally every week we talk about okay ours at

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null hands every week. So my answer is easy. I'd be a quaka

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because that's what Rama said my animal would be for the

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corporation. So if I'm going to be a furry, I figure a quaka might

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be what a perfect one. That's an Australian Google it. So

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like actually it was a first a friend that suggested it and

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he said just something about the way you constantly smiling and

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laughing. You remind me of a quaka and I was like what the

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hell's a quaka? It says you Google wow see the image you're

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going to laugh and then so Rama made the quaka for me for my

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corporation PFP my first time the corporation as a lowly

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intern. That's glorious. Those are those are some good

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animals. Wait, is this this is like a little marsupial?

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I think I think it is a marsupial but I'm not 100% sure.

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It's yeah it's a marsupial from Australia right that's the

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this is such an Australian word as well. It's the Q.

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Q is a small macro pod about the size of a cat. It's a

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marsupial. It's just like that Simpson's episode isn't it?

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Where they go to I think they go to Australia don't they and

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they say like they're trying to like Bart or Lisa sees like a

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bird or something goes oh that's a you know a name's the bird

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what it actually is a sparrow whatever and this Australian

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person goes like you call that a sparrow I called it a

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chas was a and you're like that's about right. No, okay,

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now this I see dollars tiring with this. Would you like to do

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the news now? Oh yeah. So, uh well, I mean, we've never we've

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never done the news before but you know, I feel like I feel

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like you know people might want to know about the news. I

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mean, I don't have any like news that's really don't have any

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news but like I'm extremely irrelevant to like anything but

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so in the supermarket last night, a local resident went crazy

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and just started assaulting people. Oh, we mean the news.

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You know, someone said I think it was I can't remember who it

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was the other day. Someone sent me a a video like you know,

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just to my my messenger and they sent me a link to a video of

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like some woman just going fucking batshit nuts in like a

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local supermarket from my hometown and they're like, is

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this what people are like in your town? I'm like, so people

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like everywhere man. Everyone be crazy these days. But I know

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so I mean the the the big news in crypto in like the last

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day is that Bitcoin breaks $30,000. Yeah, I just learned

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about that. Juno bags in the slide. Are we are we rich again?

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No, no shitcoins are still worth. We're still in the poor

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house. Yeah, yeah. But I believe that you know, after Gary

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Gensler fucking took a nuclear bomb to everything, there are

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now like some what do they call them like investment houses?

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What do they call like BlackRock and that really called

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just hedge funds hedge funds hedge funds. Yeah. So they are you

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know, what's I don't know what the word is like quietly

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confident about getting through their Bitcoin ETF because

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apparently they've got a pretty good hit rate. So anyway,

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everyone got excited about that. And so ETH and Bitcoin are

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up, which is handy. So I think I think ETH's back to about

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where it was before the Gary Gensler bullshit. What is that

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because Gensler basically said the one the one thing you

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literally can't regulate is Bitcoin. So everybody went

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Bitcoin's YOLO. Full YOLO. Like let's speculate. The whole

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casino's back on the whole market. The whole market. The whole

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market sort of went up with it sort of like a lot of things

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did. Even ETH went up with it. So I think that answer

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specifically called Bitcoin a commodity, which is easier to

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get through as an ETF than you know, security. So if the head

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of the SEC says, Hey, it's a commodity that you can just be

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like, Oh, well, funny thing. I go for an ETF for that. And so

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then that pumped that which put everything else up with it,

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I think. So there is like I've got a friend who's a Bitcoin

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miner and like he likened it to cows. He said like, you know,

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a Bitcoin's like when you've got cattle and then you get a new

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cattle born. It's like not out of anything. It's just new. And

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I didn't quite understand what he was talking about. But

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apparently there's a lot of farms out there making Bitcoin.

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So I've just been to a bunch of I'm going to say altcoins rather

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than shitcoins. Oops, I said it anyway. You're right now,

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almost everything is positive because everything's positive

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you correlated to a Bitcoin anyway. But like actually almost

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everything is, you know, even if it's 2%, 3%, 1%, lots and lots

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of things have had a good 24 hours actually. Like literally

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if you go in your trading, not that you should trade, not

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financial advice, whatever, but like in whatever you use to

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look at crypto prices, if you have a view that sees all of

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them and you flick it to seven days, you'll see, and then a

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little sign of life at the end. So no, you're right. Fair play.

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Yes, but you know, this happens occasionally and it'll

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probably be short lived. There's the pessimism we needed.

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I think it's going to give us some footing. I mean, BlackRock is

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the largest asset manager in the world. They got like 9 trillion.

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Their hit rate on ETF approvals is like 570 something to one.

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And I think that's why you immediately saw all the others following

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their lead. Like there's a bunch of fast follows from other ETF

294
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companies piling in trying to get in on the action. So

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whether or not this is, I'm not saying we can't go lower, but I just see it as a

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sign of a new higher low and maybe beginning an uptrend.

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I mean, if they do get one through, I feel like it would be

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great. It'd be like a pretty good step forward into

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crypto becoming more mainstream with investors, I guess.

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Or like, you know, seen as something a little bit more legitimate than

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nerds playing with imaginary money. So what you're saying is,

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buy Bitcoin, not financial advice. I'm not saying anything of the

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like.

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Welcome to Game of Thrones, a weekly podcast on how to speedrun going to jail.

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Imagineer a narrative with me here,

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short C. If it's a commodity, can you still go to jail for saying on the

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podcast that you should buy Bitcoin? Hypothetically, not financial advice.

308
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,960
Well, I mean, I think there's different levels of going to jail, right?

309
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There's you're an enemy of the state and we don't like you. So we're going to put

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you in jail and not give you charges yet so that you kind of aren't on the books.

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Like we have a large history of that in the US. And I think you could still fill

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under that category if you pushed Bitcoin enough. They'd be like, all right, well,

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he's trying to like undermine the dominance of US dollar

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in the world. So... So do you think that's what happened to CZ then? CZ?

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If they could get their hands on him, it would not surprise me if that happened.

316
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But they generally do that for more cases that are less public. So maybe they wouldn't. Hard to say.

317
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Toborra aligned from Monty Python. Nobody expects the extraordinary rendition.

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That was quite a niche war on terror joke, I guess. So Bitcoin, $30,000 happy days.

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We're maybe not in the poor house forever, but still are in the poor house now.

320
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Still firmly, firmly in the poor house. Good to know. I mean, to be fair,

321
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I'm also looking at this chart. And then if you zoom out to one year,

322
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and that percentage is not in... It's a big L, fellas.

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CB All right. Did not register?

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CZ Yeah. I think in general, across the assets that we have some exposure to as a company,

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it looks like we're down 99% in value over the last year, give or take. So...

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CB No, none of you guys hold any Bitcoin at all personally?

327
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CZ Cosmos. I sold my Bitcoin years ago. So almost all of my ETH as well.

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CB Oh, wow. Funky, do you hold coins in the bigger ecosystems?

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CZ Yeah. I'm still a Bitcoiner, I guess. I mean,

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primarily Bitcoin and ETH that makes up the majority of our portfolio. I used to get teased

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a lot during the bull run because I'm grandpa and I have like, oh, you have Bitcoin Ethereum,

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and I'm like, who's laughing now? I mean, you're shit melted down completely. Mine's

333
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:57,400
melted down a little less. CB Yeah. Some people have melted to the ground.

334
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:03,960
Yours is like, you know, like one of those toys that sort of melted, but it's still like vaguely

335
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a shape of some description. You're like at that stage as it's just a pile of goo on the ground.

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CZ I mean, I guess the thing is, it's worth, I always think of this as like, when I first bought

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Bitcoin, well, I first got paid in Bitcoin actually for some work. Bitcoin was £145,

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which at the time would have been about $200, right? I had like a Bitcoin, something like that,

339
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I don't know. And then when I next bought it, it was about $1700, I think. And then

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sold that some time later, blah, blah, blah, blah. But no, but like, if you look at the macro,

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there's obviously, so if you look at the micro, there's obviously times when it was below each

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of those prices after I had that asset. But like, if you look at the long-term chart, like it just

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the interest in the asset, because it is just the name, so like, even like, it was around that time,

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around 2013, I bought a bunch of Dogecoin because I was like, ah, I've got cracked this crypto thing.

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The asset doesn't matter, it's just about brand recognition. And I bought like 10,

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20,000 Doge, something like that for like about three quid when I was drunk. And then,

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but then it's all about holding it to the right fucking time, right? Because years later, I was

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like, this does thing really, it really isn't moving. And then of course, fucking it did.

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I have never traded into a winner ever. In my life, I have not ever made a trade

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on crypto that has like yielded me any kind of profit.

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And as a company, every time we've shifted from one cryptocurrency to another to change our risk

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profile, we have in fact, in the long term, made our situation worse. Every single time we've tried

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to calculate something. But on an individual level, I have only made money from crypto

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and including trading. But then I'm not a trader, I am like,

355
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get a thing, hold on to it for three, five years. It's just some of those trades like,

356
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I sold my Doge for a profit, obviously easy when you bought it for three quid.

357
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Did I sell it for the whatever thousands of pounds it would have eventually been? No, no, I did not.

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So partial match says, look at pay pay and pay pay is up 57%.

359
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Is it?

360
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Wow, that's a huge leap.

361
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,760
It's the top performer out of the big 100, pay pay.

362
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Here come the memes.

363
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I mean, yeah, we have done notoriously bad in crypto trading. But I am at the moment

364
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:51,400
trying to build like a little bit of an ETH bag because we've never really held any of the top

365
00:25:52,520 --> 00:26:01,080
cryptos as a company. So sort of just like DCA-ing into some ETH at the moment.

366
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But maybe you like, we'll look at some Bitcoin. I don't know.

367
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:13,240
So Jesus, ETH at the moment, the price is like the price I sold it for in like 2019 or something.

368
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Or something when I got rid of most of my ETH.

369
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So I bought ETH back in like the last bull before the last one.

370
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So it was like 2000 and I don't know, 17 around there or something like that for like two grand.

371
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And then I held it all the way through the bear market and just sort of forgot about it.

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And then I do this, I used to do this thing where like every month I would just like add up

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the total equity of each of my investments and house and retirement fund and everything just to

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like keep an eye on my position that I'm trying to grow, see if I'm going backwards or not.

375
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And yeah, like around when COVID was around like 2020, I noticed that like my XRP and ETH was like

376
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starting to come back up again. And I think I actually sold them both at a profit,

377
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which the government was really happy about. But anyway, I did get out of them and then only

378
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,040
just recently decided to get back in. Seems like we're like a fairly way into a bear market now.

379
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,280
So it might be sort of around, you know, an area where it might be okay to buy it.

380
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:33,480
Yeah, but I did almost buy Bitcoin like back in 2000 and I want to say 15, 16,

381
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:41,240
17 when I'd just gone back to like my hometown and I was just, you know, meeting up with some

382
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people. This is like I came back from the mines and I went back to my hometown. It was like just

383
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about the time when... Yeah, hey, the Yabba. The Yabba. First time in the Yabba. The Yabba.

384
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:58,840
Anyway, I was working in the mines over in Western Australia and I came back home and I was just

385
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:05,080
meeting up with friends that I hadn't seen in ages. And one of my mates at the time, more still is,

386
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was a Bitcoin miner. And I met up with him at the pub and we were just having a yarn about

387
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,720
investment and stuff. He's like, oh, you should look into Bitcoin. And I'm like, I don't know about

388
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:27,880
that. And anyway, he convinced me to make an investment into Bitcoin. And with the exchange

389
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,760
over here in Australia, like there wasn't many at the time. And probably the bigger one was

390
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:39,560
BTC markets. And at the time you had to like sign up and then they would send you a thing in the

391
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,440
mail with a code on it. And then you had to enter the code. And then you could make your account.

392
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I guess it's like some sort of proof of address bullshit. And so I did that process. And then

393
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I signed up and then I went away to Queensland for a little bit. And I came back and I got the

394
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:05,720
code. And at the time, I think Bitcoin was like $200 Australian. And I put the code in. And then

395
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:11,560
it's like, your code's expired, you got to do it again. So I went through the fucking. So I'd

396
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:19,880
committed to make like a like a $50,000 Australian investment at the time. It was like a probably,

397
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:26,120
you know, a good portion of like my portfolio, not half, but like a good portfolio portion at the

398
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time. And anyway, so I was pissed off about that. I did the account thing again. I waited for the

399
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,880
fucking thing to come in the mail. I put it in again. By that time, Bitcoin was like $2,000.

400
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:47,640
And I'm like, ah, missed the boat. And so I left it. And then that's if you've got those at $200

401
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,960
right now, you wouldn't need this. You wouldn't need this validate a bullshit. And we wouldn't be here.

402
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:58,360
Look, let's face it. So in some senses, right, the validator thing is you missing the boat on not

403
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:06,280
only Bitcoin, but also Bitcoin mining. And it's the FOMO that drives you now. So let's face it.

404
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:12,120
You up first thing in the morning with a fiery tight heat in your belly. You're like, if I had

405
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:19,640
bought that Bitcoin at $200, I would almost certainly have sold it at $400. Yep. No, that's

406
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,800
what I did with my Ethereum that I bought for about £100, something like that. I had a bunch.

407
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:32,520
It got, I saw it go up to £1,000 that first time in like 2016, 2017, which ran up like crazy and

408
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,280
then like crashed overnight. And then it was like four years or something until it went up again.

409
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,520
And the second it went back past that marker where I was like, that's as high as it got last time.

410
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:48,520
I'm like, I let it go up a bit more and was like, we're at the edge of my risk here. Dump this

411
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,880
shit coin. And then obviously it went up to four times that amount. So you're like, well,

412
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:06,120
but you're like, it's still a fucking 100% 1000% return 1000% return. So yeah. Yeah. So 1000%

413
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,320
because 100% would be if you've made it had $100 and you got $200 that'd be 100%.

414
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:17,320
Right? Yeah. I feel like the plebs have a hard time conceptualizing 1000% though.

415
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,560
Yeah. It's much easier to say 10X for them. Yep. 10X if you like.

416
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,440
I got some, the best one I got though is, you know, did you ever use Keybase back in the day?

417
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,200
They just air dropped you like a few thousand stellar years ago. I didn't know.

418
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,800
Yeah. Like like like 2018 maybe something like that. Just totally for free. You just had to

419
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:43,240
claim it. You just had to have a wallet. And then I literally just immediately threw it over into

420
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Kraken and was just like price notification on my phone. Maybe we were worth something someday.

421
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,800
And then that was one where I did actually sell it at a profit. I think, yeah, I mean,

422
00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:01,320
yeah, obviously it's from zero, but the based on where the price was when I got it to when I sold

423
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:09,720
it, I think that would have been 100, maybe even 1000X. Partially, I remember the Keybase claim.

424
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,600
The only airdrop I've ever gotten in the like, you know, big crypto sphere.

425
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,480
When I say big crypto sphere, I mean, you know, basically everything else other than Cosmos.

426
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:28,360
Even Tina had Miss London Dame from Mad Max. Yeah. So I did get an optimism airdrop.

427
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:34,840
So here's a funny story. I used to listen to this podcast called

428
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,920
fuck. What was it? Game of Nose, a weekly podcast on the Cosmos by independent validated teams.

429
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,760
Don't forget to like and subscribe. Plug. So this was a daily, right? This was a daily podcast.

430
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,840
And I honestly can't remember what the fuck it was called anymore. But I used to really like it.

431
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:58,840
It was just like a little bit of a snapshot of, you know, the previous day really in crypto and

432
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:09,640
what was happening in the big crypto sphere. And it was actually Yuri from friends validator was

433
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:17,880
like the person who did this every day and his business partner, who I can't remember the name

434
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:29,080
of right now. But it was really good. And one day is like, so optimism got released. And he's like,

435
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:35,880
optimism is released. And if it's like anything, like anything else in that sort of sphere, there's

436
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:41,560
a good chance that if you use it at some point, you probably get an airdrop if they ever create

437
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,960
a token. And I was like, huh, that's a good idea. So I pulled over in my car, which I was driving.

438
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:52,200
So I always listen to this in the car and got out my laptop and like sent across a dollar in

439
00:33:53,080 --> 00:34:00,360
from ETH to optimism, which cost me like $10 and then made a trade and then couldn't send it back

440
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:07,000
because I didn't have enough money to send it back to like Ethereum anyway. And fast forward,

441
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:15,080
like a year and a half. And optimism had a token that they launched. And we got an airdrop of like,

442
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,360
I think it's worth like $3,000 now. US. So I mean, that was cool. Thanks, Yuri.

443
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:26,600
So wait, that's like, that is literally like a hundred extra 10,000 extra 10,000 extra 10,000

444
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:33,880
extra 10,000. That would be like a 3000 extra 10. Right. But it wasn't based on the dollar value.

445
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,840
It was more based on like, Oh, you used it here. Have some, it was like, I think it was a function

446
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,040
based thing. Like he got a certain amount for like, having token on there, you got like a

447
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,200
certain amount for making a swap, you got like a certain amount for providing liquidity, etc.

448
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:55,960
One of those type type ones. And I just got, I got pretty much the base, but I've still got it.

449
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,600
I don't know what's worth. I guess it was the interesting thing that you kind of realize,

450
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,840
like if you've been in crypto for a while, like, you know, I've been holding various since like

451
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,520
2011. So I was like, you've been in it for a long time. I think, I think everybody in this

452
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,320
podcast has like had some touchpoint with with the stuff for quite a long period of time is you

453
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:20,760
realize like, you know, no matter how much, say Bitcoin goes up, right? It's you if you have one

454
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:27,000
Bitcoin, you're not only in terms of follow this. So I guess people in TradFi have traditionally gone,

455
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,040
Oh, well, you know, it's super, super volatile. But like I saw when I was buying in, you know,

456
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,360
with no real strategy over the course of like seven, eight years, and never really seemed to lose

457
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:43,640
money as long as I didn't sell it emotionally. You're upside, you're so you're downside risk is

458
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,600
actually pretty, pretty capped like it never seems to get like as long as you as long as you assume

459
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,320
it will eventually recover, which eventually after every bear cycle it does based on name,

460
00:35:53,320 --> 00:36:00,600
recognition alone, this is not financial advice. The the problem is the upside risk is also so the

461
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,200
upside bonus is also like super, super capped because you're only ever going to hold like one or two

462
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Bitcoin at most. And even when you even when you bought in in like 2012 or whatever, I mean,

463
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,840
at that point, I was fucking broke because, you know, junior engineer, like what was it gonna do

464
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,600
with didn't have any any profits profit, right? You're like, I need this to fucking beer and toast.

465
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:26,520
Yeah, I need to fucking, I could have my fucking, I've only got a PS2 and it's bloody 2020, whatever

466
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:32,600
it was, 2020, 2012, I need a PS4 or whatever was the latest there, I probably still only have a PS4,

467
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,680
but whatever. Anyway, not important. Like you look at Bitcoin, you're just like the Bitcoin is

468
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,960
less important than PS4 or gaming PC or whatever, clearly. Well, that's that's kind of relevant to

469
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,520
me. Well, you can finish storing, then I'll I'll tag in. Well, so what I was gonna say, but this is

470
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:52,280
the thing you realize when you get more into the alt Z ecosystem. And like the thing Noel was saying,

471
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,880
with these air drops or like stellar, which was the air drop of a very, very low value token,

472
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,680
that ends you end up getting these returns that are like, yeah, 3000 X or something like that.

473
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,960
And you make a couple thousand dollars, but it does make you realize that in order to replicate

474
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:15,880
that success, you would have had to go very big on an incredibly risky altcoin very early and hold

475
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,640
like 30,000 40,000 or something to get to the point where it's because there's like a very big

476
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:28,520
difference between like life changing money is like really cool. Like, like, bear in mind,

477
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,720
I think 10 pounds is quite a lot of money because that's still just about two points of beer in

478
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:38,440
the part of the country I live in. If I see 10 pounds on the ground, that is my week fucking

479
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,960
made. That's the caveat, right? That's that's a lot of money to me. I am a fucking stingy bastard.

480
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:50,600
But like a lot of money is like if some if you if you were able to earn with a trade or like

481
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:56,040
holdings and coins, your yearly salary, that's insane. But what's when you start looking at

482
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,360
like what's actually life changing money in terms of like what real estate costs near to you if you

483
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,080
want to like buy a house or something like that. It's crazy how quickly you get from like where

484
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,240
Bitcoin was in 2012 where you could just like buy because there was only one or 2010, you could

485
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:17,480
have only one coin, you had to buy that and then hold that versus like now the incredible

486
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:24,040
unlikelihood of you being able to pick a token, buy it early enough, buy in the quantity enough,

487
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,920
and then actually like Null says, not sell it, not sell it when it doubled in value and be like,

488
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:34,760
fuck, fuck, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out, I'm done. That's the thing that always like the level of

489
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:42,200
optimism of retail investors in crypto always astonishes me whenever I reflect on that pattern

490
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,760
that I've seen and like how big those bets would have to be. I mean, I guess I'm also projecting

491
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,840
a very like living in an expensive country viewpoint onto it as well. But I think if you had a bot

492
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:02,280
that just bought like $100 of every new token that went into like the shitcoin reactor

493
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:09,800
and then never looked at it, never even looked at what the bot was buying and then just had like

494
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:15,400
notifications set up for the bot when those balances exceeded a million dollars,

495
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,600
I reckon you'd hit one at some point. So like the million monkeys, million typewriters approach.

496
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,400
Yeah, exactly. But they're just automated monkeys.

497
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,440
Shit, I think you've basically described venture capital investment and that shit works.

498
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:37,960
That shit works. Yeah, but we're throwing fucking bananas. This is financial advice from Null.

499
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:46,280
It's deaf. That sounded like ring that set off the financial advice klaxon,

500
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:53,560
it's financial advice. That was using by Null. So I'm just entering an entry here,

501
00:39:54,360 --> 00:40:01,480
4100 financial advice. Oh, right. So you're updating the spreadsheet to make it clear

502
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:09,720
that was in fact financial advice. That's a break for you, sir, but I have to deal with Paul

503
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:15,560
Bastad. So, what were you saying? Funky with my, oh, sorry, she'll see you go. Then I'll ask Funky

504
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:21,000
the question. Oh, I was going to say the description of like the comparison to like a

505
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,600
PlayStation is super apt for me. I don't know if I've really talked about this on air before,

506
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:31,560
but I've actually been in Bitcoin since like 2010. I used to trade it on for Diablo 2 items. So

507
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,680
there was like, there's like this, this forum called D2JSP, which had like internet gold basically,

508
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,200
but it wasn't like Bitcoin. It was like all in this one form. Wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry.

509
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,960
I didn't, I'm not going to jump ahead. I got super excited. I made a connection with things I know

510
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,800
about you. And I was just like, Oh my God, is this going to be a block list? And now I've realized

511
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,960
that that might be the plot to it. So I'm going to shut up. Okay. So it goes D2JSP. And through

512
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,120
that is how it kind of got into software. Cause I used to be like one of the like people who would

513
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:03,400
write bots for Diablo. And then there was like the cyberpunk version of these guys, which would

514
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:09,960
use Bitcoin. And I was one of those. And so at one point I'm in college for this. And I think I got,

515
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,680
I got scammed out of like, like three or four Bitcoin, which at the time was like a dollar.

516
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,560
But in college, that's like, that was like, that was like, you know, a quarter hour of work or

517
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,320
whatever. And I was like, this is some bullshit. Like I should be better than this. I've been playing

518
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,320
this game for so long. I can't believe I got scammed. And like I scrapped my wallet and I've

519
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,640
actually looked back on it before. I don't even know what it is now. And like it's got like 150

520
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,760
Bitcoin on there. So like my history of Bitcoin actually went really far back. And then that

521
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:43,320
led me to, I mined Doge in 2014 and I had a little over a million of that and sold that in 2017 for

522
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:50,040
like $600 or something. So my history of Bitcoin is actually quite far and goes, rolls back into

523
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,840
gaming and is kind of in a way like the start of the trajectory of my career.

524
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,280
I thought you were going to say, I thought you were going to say something about,

525
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,360
because I know you're into collectibles. I thought this was going to be a plot twist

526
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,720
around magic, the gathering and Mount Gox. And I was going to be like,

527
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:13,320
no, no, I got out before then I got out before then no. And I never was into magic, the gathering.

528
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,200
I have Pokemon cards, not magic cards. But that's a whole other.

529
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,400
Do you have a shiny Charizard? I'm sure I've asked this question before.

530
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:27,960
So yes, I have. I got rid of all of that stuff. I actually have like, I'm one of the few people

531
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,760
with a couple of complete sets. So like there's kind of two versions of Pokemon cards. There's

532
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,960
the Wizards of the Coast ones, which are the original ones. And then there's the lake after

533
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:41,160
second generation. There's later ones. And afterwards the Coast soul, they made like one set

534
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:46,440
and printed a very limited printing. So I have this one set that's like obscenely rare. I've only

535
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,600
ever talked to one other person. I used to be super active in like Pokemon card forms of like

536
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:57,560
this one set of cards that is basically impossible to find. So is that set of Pokemon cards worth

537
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:04,040
more than all of your collective crypto holdings? No, but it is quite close.

538
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:10,440
You did have to think about it though. Yeah. And I get offers on it on eBay very frequently,

539
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,880
even though it's quite expensive. What you get offers on eBay? What?

540
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,680
Yeah, because I sold through eBay. It's not listed anymore, but I had it listed like two years ago

541
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,760
and people still have it like somehow saved or something. So they'll still send me messages

542
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:32,600
like, Hey, I know you had this posted. I know you didn't sell it. So yeah. So we're we've hit the

543
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,800
45 minute mark and I haven't talked to funky yet. So I mean, sort of following on from the

544
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,640
conversations we've already been having funky. I mean, you haven't interjected, which is kind

545
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:47,720
of what you have to do to get a word in edgewise on this podcast. I would like to ask you so that

546
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:53,320
you have the opportunity to speak. What was your entry point into crypto? How was there a sad story

547
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,440
like the rest of us? Or did you actually nail it first up? Yeah, I have two sad stories because

548
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,240
Frank clearly was a Magic the Gathering player. And in 1998, when I moved to Florida, I basically

549
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:08,600
financed my move by selling all of my magic cards. And I'm talking I had Mox's Black Lotus,

550
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:16,760
Forge's Amps, you know, like, I mean, that is sad for sure. Ponds of money now. I found a library

551
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,160
of Alexander one day in a deck that I didn't even think I still had. And I went and sold it for like

552
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:27,320
800 bucks to a dealer that was near me. But anyhow, yeah, my crypto story was one of the smartest

553
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,520
kids I was a teacher for like 20 years before I came to my full time role in the Web three. And

554
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,880
one of the smartest kids ever taught he was chosen out of a dozen students in the United States to

555
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:43,000
go it was like a state department estate sponsor of these 12 kids go to China full immersion for a

556
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,400
whole year. He was speaking Mandarin in ninth grade, like he was on the second semester. He came back.

557
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:53,320
This is like circa 2012. Maybe comes back in the spring of 2013, which is probably like that first

558
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,840
real big bull run for Bitcoin. And he tells me he's like, Have you heard of the Bitcoin thing?

559
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,000
And I had just started investing like open Roth IRAs, maybe like a couple years earlier. So I'm

560
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,840
like, I tried five kind of like, I don't know anything. I look up stuff. I see Silbrode, I see

561
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:10,680
drug dealing on the dark web and like, Nope, not for me. So then in 2016, when I was teaching

562
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,080
different group of kids and everything else, and this one kid who was explaining, he wanted to open

563
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,960
a nonprofit and he wanted to do micro loans for people who didn't have any kind of money. He

564
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,520
hated like, am Scott and all these services that are just do this predatory lending. And so he

565
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,520
wanted to do something on the blockchain. He explains to me blockchain, he explains distributed

566
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,280
ledger technology and I like the concept immediately clicks with me. That's really cool. Like, you know,

567
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,880
you're taking away all of the, you know, just having these nodes all over the place where the

568
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:41,880
data can be found and whatnot. And he tells me about it. And so I help him set up his 501 3C

569
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,360
here in Florida. It's called, it's called Fair Pact. And he wants to set up the nodes and stuff

570
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,880
with him and his friends. Well, then in springtime of his graduating year 2017, now we're well into

571
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,200
the bull run. And he comes up to me, he's like, Hey, have you seen the price of Bitcoin? And I

572
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,000
was like, No, what's why do you care about Bitcoin? He said Bitcoin, like that is the original,

573
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,000
you know, distributed ledger technology that is like the original working blockchain. And it was

574
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,840
like, that's when it clicked. And I was like, Okay, I understood sort of this powerful tech and this

575
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,560
idea of decentralization, that was really cool. But I didn't have the connection that it was Bitcoin.

576
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:19,080
And so I just, you know, typical pleb bought some Bitcoin, bought some Ethereum, just kind of

577
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:24,040
FOMO it in, you know, like everybody else, just the euphoria takes over you're like, Ah, yeah,

578
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,720
I'm making so much money. I'm never going to sell my buddy. So like the day at the peak and went and

579
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:32,120
bought a boat, he was smart. He's like a Bank of America vice president. So he's the trad buy guy

580
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,840
who's like, I don't trust this shit. Like, I made a ton. I'm buying a boat. And so

581
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:43,320
I had a similar friend who I worked for like one of the big American tech companies, did math and

582
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:49,080
physics at university, real big brain guy. And literally, he bought on the way in on the FOMO

583
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:55,000
cycle. And then literally, like within two weeks, was like, this shit's going to collapse again,

584
00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:00,360
like like like your man got out like bridge at the top of his like, shit, I can take two

585
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,760
big ass holidays this year. I'm a fucking legend. And he has never touched crypto since.

586
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:09,720
Like it's just like, he's like, what are all your kids doing over there? And you're like,

587
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:13,560
we're busy making money. He's like, you're busy making L's and I know it.

588
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:20,200
I think I bought XRP at the peak, like for a three something and I even had to trade some

589
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:25,800
Bitcoin to get XRP at the time. So and then I just hobbled it into the ground, didn't really pay

590
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,480
attention. And I would randomly, it's funny, I go back and look at my Coinbase history and I

591
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,160
would just must be bored at school or something. I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna buy a couple ETH.

592
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:38,120
It looks cheap. Like, I mean, you know, I find these random buys in 2019 and 2020. And then I

593
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,960
just kind of knew a little bit about, you know, COVID comes and I start having, you know, just

594
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,800
like everybody else on board, there's a lot of time on our hands. So I start really researching,

595
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,840
like, what doesn't Bitcoin have this having thing? And so I knew the cycle was coming. So then we

596
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:56,120
started to seriously invest and we were buying, like I would say probably our average buy for ETH

597
00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,920
is, you know, our cost basis might be like 400 bucks or something like across all time, just

598
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:06,520
because of we did a lot of accumulation in 2020. Same thing for Bitcoin. And then the biggest genius

599
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:12,920
play was buying options for all the Bitcoin miners in the summer of 2020 for like pennies.

600
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:18,200
And just watching that shit absolutely explode in a Roth tax free. And it's like, oh, okay, 50

601
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:23,560
grand. Thanks. Like just breaking money off the table is kind of insane. So getting ahead of the

602
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,720
curve. And then I was just getting to Polkadot for that same reason, because I was just doing research.

603
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:32,680
And I just happened to find sort of like this video, what is Polkadot with Dan Reeser and Bill

604
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:38,440
Labune. And I read Gavin's like vision of interoperability. And that's kind of what drew me to,

605
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,440
and this is why like cosmos right at the end of the day, I feel like we're all hurtling toward a

606
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,880
multi chain future where like all this stuff's not talking to each other, right? And people are

607
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,400
probably even going to know the names in 10 years about like what does what. And so I just started

608
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:57,560
with dot. And then I actually had I started buying cosmos when I was like four or five bucks. But then

609
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,720
I sold it all in the bullrod because I was married to my bags, like because I was just like, oh,

610
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:06,200
oh, never I locked up most of the crowd loans. And, you know, now it's like I'm gonna get staking

611
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:11,960
rewards. It's done and unlocked. So now then when the bear came again, we just started like DCing

612
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,280
into Bitcoin and Ethereum for the most part. And then when Bitcoin got past like 25k, we just started

613
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:22,280
putting our DCA dollars to Adam and now a vax and getting a little bit because the subnet's

614
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,720
are coming. So anything that offers interoperability is kind of I'm a big fan of placing small bets

615
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:32,280
knowing that one of them is going to have an asymmetric payoff, right? Like I would still

616
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:37,640
say that in the bull run previously, the two best bags that we had, which were not big allocations in

617
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:45,480
terms of money. In the winter of 2020, I bought Matic for like two cents. And I bought Solana for

618
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:53,560
like two bucks. And those ripped well above anything else that we held through the bull.

619
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,200
And then of course, to do stupid things to like the mistake that I learned a lot during the most

620
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,560
recent bull run was by the dip because of being a Bitcoin or my wife's like, we need the next full

621
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:08,360
coin. And so like it would dip and I would just be like, and I had been peeling profits into stables.

622
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,440
And then it's like, oh, buy the dip. And you know, you spend like five grand to buy like a tenth of a

623
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,600
Bitcoin. And I was like, I was dumb. Like I look back on my now, I was like, that was dumb. But then

624
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,440
there's also like this really funny disconnect when it's magic internet money, like when you have

625
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:26,200
stable coins and the same thing explains my NFT degeneracy, because it's like, it's not real money.

626
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,400
Like if you said, oh, this costs X and I was going to take it on my checking account, I'd be like,

627
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,160
you're fucking kidding. Like you must be insane. But if it's magic internet money, like your brain

628
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,920
is just like your reptilian brains, the only thing that plugged in is like, okay, that works. You

629
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,560
know, it's just I'm just like, if you found like 50, if you found like 50 bucks on the floor, you'd

630
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:46,200
be like, holy shit, this is the best day. And if somebody was like, hey, you can, you can spend that

631
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:52,440
50 bucks on this NFT, you'd be like, go fuck yourself. Yeah, I'm going to the pub. Yeah.

632
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:59,080
If it's Fiat, yes, I pretty much and that's why like, so my even I was bad and I was guilty,

633
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:04,200
like when I first came to Cosmos back in January and started like watching you guys and just like

634
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,600
meeting people and I got to Stargaze and it was game over because I was like, I'm in the coffee,

635
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,280
the Cosmos coffee house. I love that little social group. They're a great group of folks.

636
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:18,760
And like every time I would DCA into Adam, I just kept converting it to stars and buying NFTs.

637
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:24,360
Like it was terrible for the first few months. And I finally like, just like, okay, I got to stop

638
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:29,400
like buying NFTs, have my little wallet, and I'm just going to put this Adam on the stake and let

639
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:34,680
it do its thing over, you know, the course of time. So there's my story as condensed as possible.

640
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:40,680
So when you say you're like, and sorry, I don't actually know much about you, funky. I haven't

641
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:48,360
like researched you or anything. But so when you say you're like full time in crypto now,

642
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:53,480
what does that look like? Are you like, are you a full time investor or are you like you work for

643
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:59,560
actually some crypto company somewhere? Yeah. So I'm the director of fellowship and protocol

644
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:04,040
relations with Lucky Friday Labs. And Lucky Friday, we're an infrastructure provider like you guys.

645
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:11,480
So we run their metal that we own in SOC2 data centers. Like we have a secondary brand that's

646
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:16,440
kind of more positioned toward institutional investors. And now when we run a lot of ETH validators

647
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:22,680
and we're starting to test out Eigenlayer and stuff like that. And so the Lucky Friday brand

648
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,400
is more like just community support. So we started in the Polkadot ecosystem because our co founder

649
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,920
same thing, we're very bullish on the whole idea of interoperability. And then we just thought like,

650
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:37,880
okay, cosmos is the next most logical step. So let's go over there. And so part of like my interest

651
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:42,760
in cosmos is both personal and professional because like that's my job like, oh, go meet like all

652
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:47,320
like, if I were to sum up my job, it's like, I'm the super friendly dude who shows up realizing

653
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,760
I'm the dumbest guy in the room and just likes to ask tons of questions. Because like, I am the

654
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:57,480
least technical person on the team, but I'm a self profess nerd, I cannot tell you how much joy

655
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,320
it brought me to know that I was going to be on episode number 67, because it's a prime number.

656
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:07,080
And I taught math, I'm just fucking weird like that. So I mean, you're too off, you're too off the

657
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,640
one that everybody wants though. But I don't even care, because that's not prime. It's a dirt

658
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:18,840
composite. Like I just, but yeah, I just think at the end of the day, like that's kind of what I do

659
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:24,280
is just go in meet a lot of people. I mean, I was a teacher for 20 years. So I'm just very much like

660
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:29,960
a people person. You know, I do a morning meditation. So Ramra can fall asleep to my soft

661
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:34,200
quack of voice. You know, so I was a yoga teacher, I don't think guys can see it. There's like,

662
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:40,360
pads and blocks there. So and, you know, we're doing a lot of other things like we just launched

663
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,200
our first NFT. So like the hat I'm wearing is called Teddy Dow. We actually got covered in

664
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:49,080
coin desk yesterday was a big day. And so it's strictly for charity. Like if you guys have heard

665
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:53,080
of Just Giving, it's a big online platform. It's the second biggest online donation platform. We've

666
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,400
been partnered with them for almost a year. And it's just so time consuming to and just the little

667
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,480
things that they want all the eyes dot and the T's cross and you're dealing with a web two company

668
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,120
to kind of integrate all this where so now we have it's kind of like a pilot, we're going to launch

669
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,960
on Friday where people can bid on the teddy bear, they can choose the charity of their choice and

670
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,960
the Just Giving network. If they win the bear, all the money, we don't take anything, all the money

671
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:20,600
goes to the charity with the exception of like a 1.9% cut for Just Giving because they, you know,

672
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,320
for the B2B feet have run their network and whatnot. So we're just trying to do things where

673
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:30,680
like our my co founders, Rich and Tom, the two guys who started the company, they've been,

674
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:36,680
they run a small VC fund. So Lucky Friday is like the operating company of the VC fund. And they

675
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,400
started like when the dot com bubble burst, these guys met in the late 90s together. Super

676
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:46,600
interesting guys, great mentors, little older than me. And they basically a big thing for them is

677
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:53,000
just giving back. That's why we did this first NFT project as charity focused, like one of the

678
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:58,040
co founders loves digging walls and developing countries and he's a big proponent of education.

679
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,920
He runs a couple of charter schools here in Florida that do language. So yeah, I mean, my job is now

680
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:09,560
to just sit on discord and telegram and all these other things all day. And I get to hang out every

681
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,080
Wednesday. I mean, as you guys have seen me laughing, like that's me like every Wednesday

682
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,520
when I'm watching this show, I'm like cracking up to myself commenting. And sometimes I wonder,

683
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:21,560
like, am I annoying them? Because I'm commenting so much. But you know, it's been, you guys have

684
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,400
been such a huge, you go enough, you go on the show. That's that's pretty much how it works.

685
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:33,000
It's just we the thing is, right? You live the York. Okay. You know, we, what we're doing is

686
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:38,520
your ping. If other people are your ping, we, yeah, where is our York merch? I'm pretty sure

687
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:43,080
this was on speaking of okay, ours. I'm pretty sure this is one of usurpers okay ours for this

688
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:50,760
quarter. I think you're right. I literally I saw a mock up as well. I fucking it looks so good. I

689
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:57,400
saw it was like I'd buy that right now. I'm like, I'm like, literally, we clearly have t-shirt

690
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,960
peep. We have t-shirt organization. We have places we can buy this shit now. It's the question of how

691
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,120
a mock up exists. You surfaced other work and yet we still haven't got it printed. I don't know.

692
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,680
There must be a breakdown in our process here. We should get in some management consultants to

693
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,800
work out where the blockages are in our organization here. You know, really fucking

694
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:21,400
streamline that guy. So funky. We need more stand ups for sure. We just need more stand ups or the

695
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:28,120
gamer nodes. Maybe, maybe, maybe Hartnell's right. If game of nodes was a doubt, we could just put

696
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:33,400
up a prop and get this all resolved. Get some, get some, do you know what actually, I hate to say

697
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:38,600
about it, but actually if we had some stablecoin and treasury and all, if it was possible for us

698
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:44,680
to get to the point of laziness of just firing over a few stablecoins to print.com or whatever to

699
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,760
get the t-shirt, we could probably just about all sign with a ledger in a week or so, can we,

700
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,240
to get that shit printed. I feel like we should do it just for the fun of it.

701
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:59,080
It feels like, it feels like this should be a thing. Is this the dump shit coins mock up? Is

702
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:04,200
that what we're talking about? No, the Yop-up shill down. Yeah, there was like a Yop-up shit down.

703
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:10,200
There was, you've set up a posted a thing where it's like an old school, almost like an Olympic,

704
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:18,040
like a 1980s American Olympic style t-shirt with a bunch of shit. It was very fun. It was like,

705
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:23,560
was it just like Yop-yop? Was it just like Yop in multiple colors or was it like, and I had some

706
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:28,360
other, I don't know, I can't do it justice. I can't do it justice. It looked fucking cool.

707
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,480
There is Game of Nones Verge. The shit does exist somehow. We've not finished it and printed it.

708
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:38,360
So apologies to those that do. It exists in conceptualization only.

709
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:45,800
It exists in, in Adobe, what's it called? What's the one that's not in design, not photoshop?

710
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:52,440
Illustrator. Illustrator for vectors. Yeah, it exists in a usurper's copy of Adobe Creative Cloud

711
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:59,160
Illustrator and thus could be. No with Veto. No with, usurper's just jumped in the chat.

712
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,440
It says no with Veto. That's what the t-shirt says.

713
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,480
So, but back to my question. I got very excited about the merch and then

714
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,280
forgot the question that I was going to ask Funky. So Funky, from a business

715
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,960
perspective, there's like business development and stuff is like a big part of kind of what

716
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:21,560
you're doing. So what, when you look at the Cosmos as an organization, like what, what do you see as

717
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:28,440
the primary opportunity for yourself as a business? Is it the, you need to evaluate further to work

718
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:34,040
out what the angle is and what the value add here is? Is it more about knowledge of the

719
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,720
of the ecosystem so that you can guide the institutional side of the business? Like what,

720
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:45,400
what part is it that you, I mean, if it's not like privileged business. No, it's not. It's not.

721
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,760
It's not at all. What is that? What is the kind of thing that you guys, you folks are seeing kind

722
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,920
of as the opportunity or like the thing that you're most interested from that side of things?

723
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:58,120
I mean, ultimately, I think it's going to be big picture, just a marketing opportunity, right?

724
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,680
Like the more chains that we can demonstrate to clients that we're on, we're active in,

725
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,840
we're participating. I'm a huge like governance nerd. And so like that's why I went,

726
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:11,800
Schultz brought up the stuff about Aptos and, you know, separating the validator. And that's

727
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:19,080
something that I've talked about, like Jake was on a space. So you guys would acquire a bag on a

728
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:25,320
chain to participate in governance, like to be there or would you run infrastructure as well?

729
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:30,600
No, run infrastructure. So like, but that's the one thing that I think I like about Cosmos is just

730
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:36,120
that much like Polkadot, like governance is a serious issue. And I think that our co-founders see

731
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,000
on chain governance as something going to be very important in the future. So like a future

732
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:47,000
business unit that I think they want to develop is having sort of a consultancy for institutional

733
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:52,680
players who don't have the time, right? Just like we delegate votes now to people. If you're an

734
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,080
inactive person, but you want to kind of take part in governance, like in Polkadot, you can

735
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:02,120
delegate to certain groups or individuals, you kind of do it by default, by just staking with a

736
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:07,720
particular, you're delegating your stake to the validator, which you can still go of course and

737
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,800
override, you know, the validators, but with your own, but most people don't even pay attention,

738
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,080
right? Like if it's something like it's a hot issue, I'll sometimes go on Kepler and like,

739
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,320
oh, you know, I'll read about it. And then I'll maybe sometimes go against the validator, but

740
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:26,760
it's very rare when I do. So I think it's just for us getting our name out there. And we're not on

741
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,400
many chains. And I, you know, and I actually really want to kind of just say thank you to

742
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:35,960
Schultz, like he bailed us out one time when we fell out of the active set on stride. And I was

743
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:40,520
just like beating the bushes, looking for delegations. And so does anybody have any to help? And I

744
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:45,320
know stride is eventually going to be an ICS chain. And so like the validators aren't going to be,

745
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:50,360
they're going to be called governors or something else, right? I think so. But you know, and I emailed

746
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:54,840
Schultz, that was another thing too, like we're just looking, we always try to go into any ecosystem

747
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:59,640
and add value however we can. And so like, we're still trying to wrap our heads around that in

748
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,040
terms of like, what can we do to help the cosmos? Like you guys, for instance, we're talking about

749
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,600
an episode way back, probably around the time that all the stuff like the confio stuff was

750
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,520
happening is one of the first episodes I was listening to. And you guys were talking about how

751
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:17,400
like, Pocotu is the only one that has like, all the snapshots for like, the different chains and

752
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:22,040
stuff like that. And RCTO, you know, and Pocotu, you guys probably know this, you kind of, I think

753
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:28,840
got to start in Polkadot and it's the polka. And RCTO will, he actually wrote like the polkadot

754
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,920
wiki for best validation practices, like how to avoid slashing and everything else. So like,

755
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:38,360
he sat on the Kusama Council, he knows Pocotu. And so like, I said, why don't we do something

756
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,200
like that? Like have a redundancy, like let's create some kind of repository where we can have

757
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,960
snapshots for people just, you know, we want to do something. And that's why I was asking Schultzie,

758
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,160
like, how do we run relayers? That seems to be sort of an important piece of the infrastructure

759
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:55,640
that people kind of ignore, you know, and I just picked that up from a few tweets that I had seen

760
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:01,160
on, you know, my TL from Schultzie, you know, that people that not everybody who runs validators

761
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,880
runs relayers because it's not directly incentivized. And of course, then you're having to spend your

762
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:09,800
own money, which eats into your own business, of course, because, you know, I mean, just look at

763
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:15,320
the state of the market. And I think what's tough for you guys to swallow, you know, is just like,

764
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,800
how like, I don't know if it's because the tokens are so inflationary, but just some of them just

765
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:25,880
continue to bleed and bleed and bleed and bleed. And so, you know, like we're not on many chains,

766
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:31,080
you know, we have aspirations for the hub, of course, but like, we know that that's a big,

767
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:37,800
like we try as much as possible not to do too much delta risk, not to like buy our way into a set.

768
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,560
A few times we got really lucky, like where I pointed out things ahead of time, like stride,

769
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,800
when it was still relatively cheap, I'm like, get in this one, like we could. So we, you know,

770
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:51,240
I think they bought like $6,000 worth of stride when it was whatever it was, 30, 40 cents or

771
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:55,320
something like that. And so we got into the act of set. But, you know, if you look on any of the

772
01:02:55,320 --> 01:03:00,200
ones that we're running, we're tend to be lower down in the set, right? Like so quick silver,

773
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:05,400
persistence one, I think that was like the first one we were on stride, we're not very high up in

774
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:11,640
the set. Canto for some reason, like somebody plunked down a ton on us, like we were low in the

775
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:17,080
set and then we went up to like 30 something on Canto for some reason. So, but at the end of the

776
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,080
day, that's what the Lucky Friday brand is all about. It's just, I think, so we can kind of

777
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:26,840
support an ecosystem in a way by giving them, you know, I mean, there's tons of cloud providers,

778
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,400
it seems like that's sort of a differentiator just offering like a bare metal service and then

779
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:35,640
just trying to have that institutional grade hardware where we're running in those SOC2 data

780
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,800
compliant setters. Like that's kind of, we just hired a guy from Coinbase, you know, a few months

781
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,960
back who's our institutional strategist. So he has all these relationships with custodians.

782
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:49,240
And so he's organizing deals with us and we're having conversations with custodians. And then,

783
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:53,960
you know, to become a preferred staking provider, we're about to open like another data center in

784
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:59,080
Phoenix, like on the West side. So we have Phoenix, we have more on the East Coast, Amsterdam's coming

785
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:05,160
online soon. Our mission is to, of course, be global, you know, just decentralized from a geolocation

786
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:10,920
standpoint, but then have everything like, and the guys who because of the legacy of the co-founders,

787
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,240
like the people who run our infrastructure, these dudes are no joke. Like they've done stuff for the

788
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:21,560
Department of Defense, for the FBI, these guys are like, I just feel like, how did I get here?

789
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:28,040
That's like every day I wake up and I'm like, how did I get this job? Why am I here? So, yeah,

790
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:32,920
I guess that's the big picture is just trying to get in to kind of get on other chains. And that way,

791
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:37,640
we can turn around and market to larger players like, hey, we run on X chains, you know, we've had a

792
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:43,480
ton of growth, we run on more than half the parachains in Polkadot, we have Polkadot validators,

793
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:50,600
Qusama validators. Yeah. So you also said that you've got like institutional stuff as a part of the

794
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:55,080
business model and that's like, ETH as well and stuff. Like what do you reckon is like the rough

795
01:04:55,080 --> 01:05:04,520
like percentage split of like, of ecosystems is it like 80% Polkadot and then 20% ETH and then like,

796
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:11,160
wait, that would be 100% already, like 10% ETH and then like 5% miscellaneous stuff and then by

797
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:18,360
the sound of things like 1% Cosmos or something or? Are we talking like in terms of just market cap

798
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:23,240
value, like the actual amount staked, for instance? Good question, actually. I guess like

799
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:29,400
a change of percentage. Yeah, probably like a number of chains slash parachains. But actually,

800
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:33,240
yeah, I mean, I guess a more indicative business metric would be like what the

801
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,560
custodianship or what the assets would like staked are, I suppose, by ecosystem, I guess

802
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,120
overwhelmingly Polkadot. I mean, if we're going numbers wise, it's probably ETH. If we're talking

803
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:51,000
the number of validators, it still might be ETH because that the global state brand is it's got

804
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:57,000
its own website and stuff like that. So that's the other name global state. And but if we're talking

805
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:03,720
about just like, I would say breaking down like in terms of just number of projects, instead of

806
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,840
like as if you just count ETH as one, for instance, then it's Polkadot, then Cosmos, then Ethereum.

807
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:13,720
And then they're trying to think if there are any other like one off projects or there are some

808
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:20,840
things that we're being invited to to become part of like Genesis validator set stuff for projects

809
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:25,400
that I don't know if I should say or not say, you know, but like we have things that are coming

810
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:31,160
online soon, I guess, that are outside any of these ecosystems or standalone L1s, if you will.

811
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:36,520
Right. Yeah. So when you like, I'm guessing as well, in your role, you do like some aspect to

812
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:42,120
the due diligence side of this stuff. What do you use like metrics for like, you know, within the

813
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:47,000
Cosmos outside of the cosmos? Like, what's your feeling on how you look at something to evaluate

814
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:51,000
it as whether it's worth time and energy, because this is something like, I mean, we've talked about

815
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:57,080
a lot on the podcast, as you know, because we, you know, a lot of us kind of just aped into

816
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:03,720
everything in terms of running it during the last during App Chain Winter, particularly in Cosmos.

817
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,800
And to varying degrees have pulled back our involvement from certain chains. I know that's

818
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:15,080
I think all three of us currently on the school. And in fact, everybody in the kind of wider

819
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,800
validator circle that we were in, I think almost everybody apart from Polkachu maybe

820
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,240
has has sunset their involvement on certain chains.

821
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:29,720
And it's funny that you bring that up because I was just updating a sheet of potential like targets

822
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:34,360
for us. And I was saying to them in our meeting today, because Wednesday is our weekly cadence

823
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:39,480
call. And I was like, I don't know if we want to pursue running infra for these chains, because

824
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:45,000
it's clear that validators are leaving. And some of them, because now like I was shocked when I was

825
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:49,320
looking at the bottom of active sets, just to kind of get a number so I could say like, hey, we could

826
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:55,160
buy in and spend X amount of money and get on active in the set. And a good example of this is

827
01:07:55,160 --> 01:08:01,400
Axelar, right? Like right now, we could probably buy in for like under $2,000, right? And you could

828
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:07,080
be the lowest validator on the set right now. Now, one of our co founders loves Axelar, right?

829
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:13,400
Because I mean, it's sort of this original GMP kind of bridging solution. And again, being bullish

830
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:19,720
on interoperability long term, like I think that's one that he does want to run. But at the same time,

831
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,840
because we're waiting for these new data centers to come online, like our NVMe apparently is like

832
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,800
reaching saturation with how many VMs we can spin up on them and whatnot. So like we're running into

833
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:35,480
those kind of challenges where we're having to because we've been onboarding so much ETH. And

834
01:08:35,480 --> 01:08:39,800
though you can run a lot of nodes on like a single one, at least again, this is just what I'm told

835
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:44,520
because I'm not the least technical person on the team. We're just starting to get saturated on some

836
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,280
of the servers that we've got up and running. So it looks like July, we're going to start getting

837
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:52,120
some more servers online and everything else. So we're kind of trying to pick them. I think at

838
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:59,240
the end of the day, though, we really look for, you know, like what seems to have a viable community,

839
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:04,040
like a support system, you know, that they offer something that people are going to use. Like we

840
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,720
got into Juno, for instance, by default, for instance, like this is another one where people

841
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:12,600
were bailing and we had like a small self-stake and we were like hanging out at like 106 or something.

842
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:16,600
And then one day I looked and I was like, oh, hey, we're like the bottom or second to bottom on Juno,

843
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:22,680
we're live. So, you know, some of the ones that we, and it was when you guys were talking about

844
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,440
EvMOS, for instance, I think two weeks ago, and you're talking about how much of a pain in the

845
01:09:26,440 --> 01:09:30,360
asset is like we finally got live with EvMOS with the help of Notionall, they gave us the

846
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:37,800
delegation to like get us live. But then we keep missing blocks. And like it's just so like difficult

847
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,960
will constantly complain. It's like this chain is a nightmare. Like we just keep adding more

848
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:46,360
resources to it, thinking it was going to fix it. And then I was talking to one of the Cosmos

849
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:50,680
Spaces guys, and it's probably just even latency. If you're running this out of the U.S. and you're

850
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:54,200
running on bare metal, like it could be just a latency issue. Like we got it down to where

851
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:59,960
our uptime is maybe like 94, 95%. But it's still like you'd see those white spaces on MintScan,

852
01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:05,640
every once in a while. And so I think at the end of the day, we try to stick to the bigger chains

853
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:11,240
that are well established. We're also very big into LSTs, hence running persistence one. And

854
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:15,400
because we know that like LSTs are probably going to be a strong narrative for DeFi going into the

855
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:22,200
next couple of years. So it seems like stride, persistence one, Quicksilver, Neutron obviously,

856
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:26,520
but being an ICS chain, it's in a different boat because it doesn't have like its own token. But

857
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:32,440
you know, I mean, that's P2P, right, that is doing stride, I mean, Neutron. So you know that the

858
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:36,360
Lido folks and everything else are going to do a lot of LST stuff, I would assume on Neutron.

859
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:41,720
So I think it's just looking at what are the narratives, what is going to probably hold up

860
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:47,400
and be durable for the next, you know, say the medium term, maybe three to four or five years.

861
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:53,240
And at the end of the day, too, I think part of it is that our company, like our co-founders, excel

862
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:58,840
at building great companies and then selling them off too. So I mean, that's like, that's what they

863
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:03,240
did from when the dot com bubble burst for the last 20 years. And when they sold like this big

864
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,640
podcast company to iHeartMedia, one of the co-founders said, because he was a telecom

865
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,320
infrastructure guy, and when Fiverr was being rolled out in the 90s, he was saying like,

866
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:16,360
this is the future. And people are like, we have telephone lines, like when we get on the internet,

867
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,280
we don't need Fiverr, that stuff's crazy expensive. And then the markets collapse,

868
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:24,120
and they rush in and they bought some Fiverr companies for like he said, the Fiverr alone

869
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:28,520
is worth more than the company. And so that's how they started like this process of building

870
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:33,160
and flipping companies coming in. So he kind of specializes in distressed assets. And so,

871
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:37,720
you know, I think the end game for us ultimately is probably to build up the company and then

872
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:44,040
possibly sell it off because this is kind of what they do. But we want to, you know, that's not going

873
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,640
to happen tomorrow, right? Like this is something that's a long term vision that might be, you know,

874
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:52,360
by 2030, if we grow this company into something that's sizable, we're a very small team, right?

875
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:57,640
Those just literally a few of us and all wear different hats, you know, like one of our guys

876
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:03,000
who's a principal at the VC fund, he actually was a Goldman Sachs guy, and he was Deloitte before that.

877
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:08,040
So he's got this, his name's David, he's probably one of the most savvy financial minds I've ever

878
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,640
seen, like I would say something like I'm a D gen, right? Like, and he's like, oh, I wouldn't do

879
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:16,040
that. That's a terrible idea. You just like the fees you've paid on Ethereum, you've lost your yield

880
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:20,840
for the next three months. I'm like, I don't think that way, right? It's just like, oh, steak, you

881
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:26,840
know, like, so it's just, we have a lot of different people and a lot of wear different things. And so

882
01:12:27,480 --> 01:12:32,040
we have someone who's coming on board soon that I think is going to also help bolster our relationships

883
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:38,280
in the cosmos. And I'll just leave that at that. The intrigue. Sorry, I've been having my whiskey,

884
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:46,760
so probably a little too loose. No worries. I mean, it's kind of the dream, isn't it, to build a company

885
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:51,880
and then get it profitable enough that others are so, see it so desirable as to buy it. I don't

886
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,880
know if it's true for everyone, right? Like it's been what it is. If I built a coffee shop, as I

887
01:12:55,880 --> 01:13:02,840
intend to do one day, my goal is not to sell it, right? My goal is to, you know, heart create community

888
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:08,280
around it and, you know, get back everything. But for a tech company, I think that is traditionally

889
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:15,960
the dream. I think it is kind of funny how a short sees like, it's all just like a trojan

890
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:21,960
horse fat. Actually, I just want to really run a cozy coffee shop. But in order to get the capital

891
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:27,160
to run my cozy coffee shop, I'm going to have to spend 15 years doing something completely unrelated.

892
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:33,080
Yeah. I mean, well, so turning back to Artifact for a moment, since we talk about him often,

893
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,560
he's always like, hey, have you reconsidered now because crypto is not really in a great spot right

894
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:41,400
now. And I'm like, you need to shove off before you start making sense to me.

895
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:47,080
Yeah. I mean, at the same time, Artifact is still around. They're still running operations. But

896
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:53,320
yeah, I definitely feel like it's like funky description of like somebody telling you, hey,

897
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:58,360
do you realize like you've just shot your yield? That's like every time I speak to Artifact,

898
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:04,120
like anybody from Artifact, the way they think about business is you just like, wait, what?

899
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:09,960
It's also like, I think the journey that I know I've been on, and I think you've been on

900
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:16,440
Chelsea too, which is as more of like a business owner, I guess, and taking that, doing that journey

901
01:14:16,440 --> 01:14:21,240
from being I am an engineer and what I do is write code to realize that you've made a series of

902
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:26,760
decisions that mean you now run a company. And sometimes the most profitable thing to do,

903
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:32,040
the very, very least profitable thing you could do is to stretch yourself by writing code. And

904
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:38,040
when it's like such a strong part of your identity, it's very hard to stop doing the thing that got

905
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:41,880
you into doing the thing that you currently do because you're like, ah, but this is why I'm here.

906
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:47,480
And it's like, no, no, no, we run infrastructure now. That's primarily what we do as a company.

907
01:14:47,480 --> 01:14:52,760
It's not like, we've obviously launched a couple of dApps, but it's a very small part of what we do.

908
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:58,360
That's the thing like you talk to somebody like the Artifact folks and they're just like,

909
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:04,040
why are you spending your time worrying about this thing where the maximum upside is like,

910
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:11,960
let's say your time costs $10 an hour, you'll spend $3,000 of time on this thing. And the

911
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:18,760
maximum you'll earn on that is three times a return. You'll make $10,000. Great. If you

912
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:23,880
wound down the company tomorrow and when it got a contract at a bank, you could make that in two

913
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:31,320
months and do a nine to five. And you're like, fuck, that's a good point. Why am I working seven

914
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:35,880
days a week to do this thing that's orthogonal to our address as a company? And they're like,

915
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:43,640
yeah. You're like, I see why you guys are good at this, huh? Yeah, talking with them, I'm like,

916
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:50,200
yeah, there's a reason why they're so up and coming. I will say though, for the first time in

917
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:55,080
a while, I've been writing actual software to help some of our systems work better. And man,

918
01:15:55,080 --> 01:16:01,080
the last two weeks, I've been the most fun last two weeks because I'm back to actually doing

919
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:05,640
what I've been trained and spent the last decade doing. And I am loving every minute.

920
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,960
Well, not every minute. I had some crap with Docker and the right image and everything,

921
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:14,360
but that's not the human there. That's tooling. Other than that, God, I've loved it.

922
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:21,480
I'm very jealous. Very jealous. The closest I got to that recently was I rebuilt our company website,

923
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:25,560
which is basically just wrangling a bunch of fucking JavaScript. But it was one of those

924
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:30,200
where we were waiting with all these, you know how you try and get something like that done and

925
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,880
you get some designers and you get some people and you get some clients. And it was just taken

926
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,840
so long. And in the end, to just woke up one morning and was like, I can just have this done

927
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:41,720
by the end of the day if I just do it. And then did it. And you're like, that's why you get,

928
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:45,400
because that's the way you get into tech in the first place, isn't it? You find a thing you need

929
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,440
done and you're like, well, nobody else is going to do it. I can't afford to pay anybody. So I'll

930
01:16:48,440 --> 01:16:53,800
work out how to do it, right? It all comes back around. I'm working on that right now doing a

931
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:59,960
Resight redesign. Well, I should say, Erdeman is heading it and I'm paying for it. And I'm really

932
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:03,720
excited for like what happens because I haven't really been seeing incremental progress

933
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:08,600
and like what the vision will be. Because I'll get all persnickety and like, oh, we should

934
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:12,600
change this color or whatever. And I'm like, I know that I shouldn't be in persnickety. Yeah,

935
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:16,680
I'll get all persnickety about it. Could you define, could you use it in a sentence that's

936
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:21,240
not that sentence? I'm not sure this is admissible in Scrabble. That's what I'm saying.

937
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:28,600
Is it not an actual word? I think it is an actual word. I'm 99% sure it is. Persnickety would be

938
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:35,640
like being overly, I am persnickety about the correct temperature of my coffee in the morning.

939
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,760
It's like needlessly precise. I can test that. Yeah.

940
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:49,960
Oh, so informal North American, the equivalent I think in English, English is just

941
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:56,360
picky. We just say picky. Yeah, that's fair. Like picky to an extreme. Yeah. Yeah, persnickety is like

942
01:17:56,360 --> 01:18:03,400
almost needlessly so. It's almost like you have an itch, right? It's like a pet peeve kind of thing,

943
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:09,320
but not. Okay, I feel like we've deprived the viewers of Cosmos Drama this entire episode.

944
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:14,440
And I have to ask you guys, because I see it all over my TL this week, what the hell's up with

945
01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:19,720
this Cosmos millions thing? I just see people talking about it. It's something where you can

946
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:26,280
deposit tokens somewhere and win a lottery or something. And everybody's up in arms about

947
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:31,320
it, or at least the things I'm seeing people are upset. I have no idea what it is. Like it's

948
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:34,440
because we've been like in our final spring with Teddy Dow. So like I feel like I'm really

949
01:18:34,440 --> 01:18:37,080
out of touch right now with some of the stuff that's been happening in Cosmos.

950
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:46,040
When everything goes to shit, they turn to gambling. Fair enough. I guess that's a good

951
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:51,800
summation. Actually, when the Australian economy turns to shit always by stocks in gambling companies.

952
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:58,600
But yeah, I've never heard of Cosmos millions. No idea. So I think Cosmos millions is on

953
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:03,000
Lum network, right? And I think it is. I think it's basically that network has something happening

954
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:07,480
on it. You know, they've actually never stopped doing development as far as I could tell. I think

955
01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:11,960
they've always been doing stuff now has there been a lot of adoption? No, but I think they have been

956
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:17,560
developing basically since it launched. They're like one of the few in the proud. So they've but

957
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:22,840
are they the only chain that has more developers and they have users then because they they launched

958
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:29,000
in like Lisbon 2021. I feel like they literally launched at the conference. It was like what

959
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:33,800
fucking hell I almost certainly have a Lum Air drop. In fact, as a result,

960
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:39,240
Keychain big investor in Lum. Oh yeah, that's right. So it was a big thing because they were

961
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:44,440
that they were like 20% voting power for a while. I forgot about that. Do you remember Desmos?

962
01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:48,760
That was okay. See in Rama said something about it. And I think Rama, I think I saw a tweet

963
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:53,720
from Rama this morning about this stuff. Yeah, I honestly don't know. I know that there's

964
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:59,560
validators involved in somehow like lavender five apparently is like being voted in as one of the

965
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:06,360
select validators, but I don't really know why or how chill is another one. Do you want to be voted in?

966
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:16,120
I don't know whether you like it or not. Once like the Hotel California, once you check it,

967
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:22,600
wait, you can check out. Yeah, I feel like in some of the real wheel sitting around here with

968
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:30,520
their fingers crossed hoping to be voted out. To be fair, actually Cosmos is the definition of you

969
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:35,080
could check out, but you could never leave no matter how much you try to ignore that shit.

970
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:40,520
You still get the counter tech notification to your phone and you're like, well, it's like,

971
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:45,320
you know, the Grand Theft Auto meme where it's CJ from Grand Theft Auto San Andreas and it says,

972
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:54,760
oh, shit, here we go again. Every time, every time I was talking earlier today though about how

973
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:59,000
the thing about in the rearview mirror of like all the stuff would you know, like,

974
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:04,680
which is now over a year ago is that the volume on literally everything else has turned way down.

975
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:10,680
You're just like, at the moment, we're doing a bunch of other stuff that's outside of Web 3

976
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,240
just to fucking do something that's a bit less insane for a little while.

977
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:22,280
And it's funny how you can go into meetings that are like quite consequential for these quite large

978
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:27,560
businesses as like a consultant. And like because people are like doxing each other on Twitter and

979
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:32,520
screaming at each other, you're like, this is very calm. This is very orderly. And somebody at the

980
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,200
table is like, what would happen if we just eliminated this entire business department?

981
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:41,400
And you're just daydreaming being like, it's so nice. It's so harmless. The stakes are so low.

982
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:46,280
And they're like, that's quite. Yeah, there'll be 120 job losses. And you're like, yes,

983
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:52,120
how quaint job losses, like not physical threats of harm not addresses posted on the Internet.

984
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,120
And you're like, you're like, I've just been away too long from the real world.

985
01:21:56,120 --> 01:22:02,600
Wait, there's a real world? Yes, you've been there. We met one day.

986
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:09,080
I hide behind this this blind here. I got a fucking like a roll up blind that takes up the

987
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:14,760
entire wall. It never gets opened. I think there's a world out there. Wait, hold on a second. Aren't

988
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:21,560
you in closet? Your closet has a blind? Your closet has windows. I'm in the closet right now.

989
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:30,120
And it has windows. So this is like the room layout here is a bit weird that's on that side.

990
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:36,600
It's like the whole wall is a closet. And on this side, the whole wall is a window.

991
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:42,120
But it is like a route. It's like a spare bedroom, right? Yeah, it's like an actual bedroom.

992
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:50,360
No, isn't like Zeke just ripping bong hits in a closet. No, I thought it was like a walk-in

993
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,720
closet that's like kind of narrow because like you have the mirror on the side there. So I was

994
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:58,680
like, okay, so it's like pretty narrow. Yeah, it's like three and a half meters by three and a half

995
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:03,640
meters, I suppose. I don't know what that is in feet. So about the size of an entire flat in San

996
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:12,920
Francisco, probably. Yeah, in New York. I once went to view a flat like in a British city where it

997
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:17,880
was like, you know, obviously super crammed in. And I was like, it was like two bedrooms and I

998
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:22,200
like walked in and like this is the first bedroom. And then I was like, okay, cool. I was just like

999
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:26,200
the estate agent went to go and check something in the kitchen and I was just wandering around.

1000
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:31,240
And I walked into this like really small, what I thought was a built-in closet, essentially,

1001
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:35,640
like it looked like a closet. And there are these two kind of weird mirror walls. And I was like,

1002
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:40,600
oh, these mirrors must slide. There must be a closet behind these mirrors because this room

1003
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:44,920
is super fucking weird. And there was like this weird chair at the end as well. And I was like,

1004
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,600
this is a very strange room. But I guess, you know, some people are really into walking closets.

1005
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:53,160
And then the estate agent walks in behind me, is like, ah, I see you found the second bedroom. And

1006
01:23:53,160 --> 01:24:00,280
I was like, that's like, you fucking what, mate? And they were like, yeah. And I was like,

1007
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:08,520
there's like a John Travolta gift. And they were like, oh yeah, they turned out one of, not both,

1008
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:14,360
one of them slid back. And there wasn't a true bed behind it, like a single bed. And then the other

1009
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:19,240
one had this weird semi-opening thing where part of it was actually like an old chimney breast. So

1010
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:22,920
it wasn't even, there was nothing behind it. And then there was like a tiny bit where you could

1011
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:27,720
put some, you know, like a little cupboard for t-shirts and shit. It was tiny. I can't even describe

1012
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:33,160
it. It was probably like from here to here, I guess, like just slightly out of shot. It was just

1013
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:41,000
enough for a single bed, then space to walk. And then this weird semi-cubby hole cupboard. It was

1014
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:46,600
the smallest one, the smallest ribs I've ever seen in my life. It was wild.