1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Hello everybody and welcome to this week's edition of Your Mortgage Process. 2 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,880 I of course am your host Greg Wareham. 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:18,880 Thanks for joining the show today. 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,480 We're going to talk a little bit about 2008 and what happened during the crash. 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:28,560 And I think the best way to illustrate that for you is to talk to you about how everything 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:35,120 got built up to 2008, what happened, how the market got reestablished and then correlate 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,200 it back to what's going on in the market today in 2023. 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,920 So I'm going to give you a little bit of my background. 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,720 So I originally got into the mortgage industry in 1998 and I worked for a company, Champion 10 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,080 Mortgage, which is no longer in business. 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Now when I was hired by Champion, what Champion did is they wrote what were considered nonconforming 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,000 subprime mortgages. 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,560 And it was really their niche in the marketplace. 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,640 And they were able to provide financing for people that didn't qualify for what would 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,160 be considered a conventional mortgage. 16 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:12,240 And it was a product that was important to the market at the time. 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,720 And as Champion was in it, household finance was in that business, and then slowly the 18 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,480 banking industry got into that business as well. 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,780 And what did the product line look like? 20 00:01:23,780 --> 00:01:29,600 So we did home equity lines that typically had a higher interest rate than a bank would 21 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,440 have because the people didn't have a stronger credit. 22 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,560 And then the other thing that we wrote a lot of back then were what were called 228s. 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Those are two year adjustable rate mortgages. 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,080 So you'd be fixed for the first two years. 25 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,320 And after that point in time, your interest rate would go up or could go up. 26 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:49,040 And it almost always went up. 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,720 And the market, I mean, that was such a big product at the time in the marketplace, not 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,120 for where I was working, but in the industry as a whole. 29 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:04,520 And it created some challenges when those mortgages started to adjust, right? 30 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:10,040 So if you had a mortgage at an interest rate of 6% and it was a $300,000 mortgage back 31 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:16,120 then, by year three, that interest rate could potentially be at 8% or 9% or even higher. 32 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:22,640 And it created a slightly significant hardship for people if they didn't refinance out of 33 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:23,640 the loan. 34 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,720 Now, the common term used at the time was a band aid loan, right? 35 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,880 So you had someone who had credit where they couldn't qualify for a conventional mortgage. 36 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,920 How do I put them in a situation where we can consolidate all their debt, pay off their 37 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:41,620 existing mortgage, and save them money monthly and rehabilitate their credit for the purpose 38 00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:44,480 of refinancing them out into more of a conventional mortgage? 39 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,120 And that was kind of the thought process behind the scenes. 40 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,480 You know, unfortunately, a lot of these people that hopped into that program, they never 41 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,020 rehabilitated their credit. 42 00:02:53,020 --> 00:02:55,840 So they weren't able to go into that conventional mortgage. 43 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,560 And then that adjustable rate really impacted them. 44 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,280 Most of the time, these weren't loans for people that were looking to refinance. 45 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:08,800 They were people that were looking to pay off 30, 40, $50,000 in credit card debt. 46 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,480 So what would happen is when you consolidated everything for them, they would be saving 47 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,880 on paper $1,000 a month, $1,500 a month. 48 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,320 So it was a good loan for the consumer. 49 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,520 Where the industry really fell short on it is two years wasn't long enough to rehabilitate 50 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:25,520 the credit. 51 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,440 And the borrowers that we were lending to weren't doing the right things to rehabilitate 52 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,840 their credit over the course of time. 53 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,060 So there's a lot of that going on. 54 00:03:33,060 --> 00:03:37,560 So when we do these transactions for people, the goal would be to refinance their existing 55 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,740 mortgage, pay off 30, $40,000, $50,000 in credit card debt to save them more money on 56 00:03:43,740 --> 00:03:45,480 an overall basis. 57 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,360 Because the reality is their credit scores were lower because they had too much revolving 58 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,320 debt, they had too much credit card debt. 59 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,160 So we consolidate everything for them and we put them in a position where we're saving 60 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,760 them about, let's call it $1,500 a month. 61 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Sometimes you see a thousand, sometimes you see several thousand a month. 62 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,760 All right, so now you're in this mortgage transaction. 63 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,840 The role for the consumer then is to always pay on time. 64 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,720 After that two year timeframe or right before the interest rate adjust, we're going to go 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,560 into a conventional mortgage and kind of secure this thing for you long term because you've 66 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,680 been properly rehabilitated. 67 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,280 Well, unfortunately, part of the problem there is when you're doing mortgages for someone 68 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:28,200 that say has a 550 credit score in that example, a lot of times there's a reason why they have 69 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,160 that credit score to begin with. 70 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,240 So what we saw at some times when we would pay off all this debt, they'd rack up the 71 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:35,240 debt again. 72 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,980 And when you rack up the debt again, your credit doesn't rehabilitate. 73 00:04:38,980 --> 00:04:43,760 Now your interest rate adjusts, your mortgage payment goes up and you're in far significantly 74 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,360 worse shape than you were when you took the loan out originally. 75 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,520 So that was certainly part of the challenge that was going on in the industry that eventually 76 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,900 led to 2008. 77 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:59,580 The other thing that was happening is even for conventional mortgages, for loans going 78 00:04:59,580 --> 00:05:06,180 to Fannie Mae as an example, there was a period of time where you didn't verify any income. 79 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:08,700 So you would let her picture this for a second, right? 80 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:13,860 So you're behind your desk and you're completing an application for someone. 81 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:17,120 And someone tells you that they make $20,000 a month in income. 82 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:22,420 You put that in, you hit the button to see whether or not they're approved for the loan. 83 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:27,320 The system could literally come back to you and say, you're essentially cleared for closing 84 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,400 with no income verification required. 85 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,920 So it obviously seems absurd at this time. 86 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,760 But back then, if somebody said they made $20,000 a month and the system recognized 87 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,560 that, we wouldn't even ask for verification because it wasn't required. 88 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,840 Again, not because they're trying to put them in a bad situation. 89 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:51,120 It just wasn't required for the purposes of doing the loan and it became an industry standard. 90 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,180 So now you think about that, now you have people that were purchasing homes where income 91 00:05:55,180 --> 00:05:57,240 was never verified. 92 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,520 And when you run into that situation where you've done loans for folks that have less 93 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,880 than perfect credit that are adjustable rate mortgages that are going to adjust, and you 94 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,280 couple that with all these conventional loans that you did where you never verified any 95 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:15,560 income, it creates a really, really bad situation. 96 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,960 The other thing that I would say is there were programs that were out there where you 97 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,340 could lend a very high percentage of the value of the property to someone looking to purchase 98 00:06:25,340 --> 00:06:27,280 a home as an investment property. 99 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:29,100 Now picture this, right? 100 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:33,020 So you're purchasing an investment property. 101 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:34,880 You only have to put down 5%. 102 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:40,920 And what was happening is everyone could come up with 5% for the investment property. 103 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:47,840 In the market got so busy after like 2003, four, five, property values were going up 104 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:54,460 and up and up, some people would get into the practice of putting the least amount of 105 00:06:54,460 --> 00:06:58,540 money possible they could put down for an investment property with really the hopes 106 00:06:58,540 --> 00:07:02,600 that they're going to flip that property in a three month, six month timeframe and make 107 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:09,080 it easy 20, 30, 40, $50,000, which in an appreciating market where it's going up every month, all 108 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,320 right, there's some validity to that. 109 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,040 But what happens is when the market starts to come down, you can't sell the house, you 110 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,000 have no equity, and even worse, you have no skin in the game, right? 111 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,480 I mean, if you didn't put any real money into the transaction, if everything goes south, 112 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,240 well, you're going to walk away from that. 113 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,440 And that's another thing that we saw happening in the industry. 114 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:37,520 So I never felt as though what was going on in the industry was, no one felt that it was 115 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,800 going to result in what happened in 2008. 116 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,480 We thought we were following the rules, we were following the guidelines that were required 117 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,600 at that time and trying to give people the product that they wanted and trying to give 118 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,540 the market what it was demanding at that time. 119 00:07:51,540 --> 00:07:55,600 So that's kind of what was going on behind the scenes in the industry. 120 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,720 Now I'm going to fast forward to 2008. 121 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,080 And actually, before I get there, I want to just go back to those adjustable rate mortgages 122 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,320 again. 123 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:13,160 So behind the scenes in the mortgage industry, you would take these big groups of loans, 124 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,120 so not a couple loans, you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars of loans, you would 125 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:22,800 get them rated by a rating agency, and then you'd be able to sell them to a third party, 126 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,320 to Wall Street, you could securitarize them. 127 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,680 You'd sell them somewhere else. 128 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:36,040 And the rating companies were evaluating some of these packages that were sold at times 129 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,040 as essentially AAA rated packages. 130 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,560 And I'm not blaming anybody or not blaming the rating agencies, but if you have people 131 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:52,280 that have a combined average credit score of a 650, is that really truly a AAA rated 132 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,360 security that you're trying to sell? 133 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,840 And it turned out really not to be, right? 134 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,320 Where it should have been maybe rated BBB or whatever the rating should have been. 135 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,800 So the investors in the marketplace that is buying all of these, they're looking at the 136 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,560 rating on these portfolios and they're thinking it's a pretty low risk. 137 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:13,760 And that compounded the problem from a financial market standpoint when things started to fall 138 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,760 apart. 139 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,960 All right, so now we're into 2008. 140 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:24,040 2008, what happened? 141 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,840 Construction is still was just winding down. 142 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,000 We had all these new homes that were built. 143 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,980 As the market started to deteriorate, all the buyers went away. 144 00:09:34,980 --> 00:09:42,320 So what we found ourselves in was a situation where we had all of this inventory and all 145 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,280 of this construction because there was such a huge amount of demand. 146 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,580 When that started to falter and the buyers went away, we were left with a ridiculous 147 00:09:51,580 --> 00:09:53,400 amount of inventory. 148 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,400 And anyone that has some sort of basic, you ever been in a basic economics class, supply 149 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,700 and demand. 150 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:05,560 So if you have this huge supply of properties and your demand was matching it and at times 151 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:11,380 exceeding it and now there's no demand, what happens to the price or the price drops? 152 00:10:11,380 --> 00:10:15,280 And the analogy that I like to use with that, if you ever walk into Costco and you see tuna 153 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,680 fish is on sale, I love tuna fish, I eat it every day. 154 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:23,080 And you go, oh, hey, this is $5 a box off. 155 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,120 Well, they're not doing it to do you any favors as a consumer. 156 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,040 The reality is they have too much supply. 157 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,040 They ordered too much tuna fish. 158 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,920 All right, we got to get rid of this tuna fish. 159 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:31,920 So what are we going to do? 160 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,320 We're going to drop the price to move it out the door. 161 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,160 And that basic logic really transfers over to real estate. 162 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,500 You have too much supply with no demand, prices start to plummet. 163 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:47,240 And we saw in some markets that properties went down 20, 30, 40%. 164 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,880 There's parts of the country where they went down 50%. 165 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,540 And one thing I want to clarify with the builders. 166 00:10:52,540 --> 00:11:00,440 So behind the scenes, you have a bank lending to the builder to build these projects. 167 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:06,080 And when the builder now is stuck with this inventory, the value is obviously dropping. 168 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,040 Well, who holds the note on these properties? 169 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,440 The bank still. 170 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,200 So the banks were getting hit from a couple of different directions. 171 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,160 Your money you had out there in the street with the builders, you're financing these 172 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:18,160 projects. 173 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:23,040 And now you have people as we entered into a recession, they can't pay their mortgage. 174 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,080 And they're also having default rates as a result of that. 175 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:32,640 I just want to walk through with you a personal story with how bad, how quickly the market 176 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:33,640 changed. 177 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,680 So I purchased a house at the top of the market. 178 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:41,120 I bought a house in March of 2008. 179 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,800 When I had to sell that house because I was relocating, years later, four years later, 180 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:54,400 I sold that house, I had to sell that property for 30% under what I paid for it. 181 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,760 Actually about 35% under what I had to pay for it. 182 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,880 And that shows you as that market started to deteriorate in 2009, 2010, values kept 183 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,040 going down. 184 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,380 The only way to get out of a property was to sell it for less than you paid. 185 00:12:08,380 --> 00:12:12,000 Now in retrospect, would it have made more sense to have rented the property out? 186 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,000 You know, hindsight's 2020. 187 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,480 I'm older, I'm more seasoned. 188 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,840 I probably would have retained the property, but I had to sell that property at the time 189 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,900 and take a pretty big loss on it. 190 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:25,080 Now the positive side of that is I bought another house. 191 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:30,880 And when I purchased that house, I probably got that house for 35% less than what it would 192 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,200 have cost had I purchased it in 2008. 193 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,880 So in a lot of ways, the money kind of washed out on everything. 194 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:42,220 You know, we had something when I was at the time, I was still selling subprime mortgages 195 00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:44,920 were part of what I was selling. 196 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,840 And there was a site that was out there was called the implodometer. 197 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,200 And it was built for mortgages. 198 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,760 And what it did is every day it would update the list of mortgage companies that went out 199 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:55,760 of business. 200 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:01,200 And it would literally be hundreds would go out of business day after day. 201 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,960 And I worked for a really big bank at that at that time, one of the biggest banks in 202 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:05,960 the country. 203 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,080 And we were still hanging on where all these other companies were going out of business. 204 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,400 And one day, it happened. 205 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,360 One day they eliminated my division virtually overnight. 206 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:23,080 And a business channel that I was very successful at went away. 207 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,920 And I find my found myself in a position where I really had to reinvent myself in trying 208 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,580 to attack other markets and do new things to have the same level of success. 209 00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:41,640 Now to kind of quantify that for you, in 2008, I took a 70% pay cut. 210 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,840 Now I was just having this conversation today with someone on the team, because as this 211 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,480 market is starting to change and income starts to drop a little bit, like you're prepared 212 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,900 in the sales world to take a 25% hit, maybe a 30% hit. 213 00:13:55,900 --> 00:14:01,200 But I don't think there's anybody out there that's prepared to take a 70% hit to your 214 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,200 income. 215 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,200 And that's what happened. 216 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:08,600 And I use myself as an example, but it happened to everybody. 217 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,960 And if you didn't plan accordingly, which thank God we had planned accordingly, maybe 218 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,720 it's just by dumb luck, I don't know, but we were able to withstand all of that. 219 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,640 But what you saw then is everybody leaving the mortgage industry and a lot of people 220 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,480 leaving the real estate industry. 221 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,920 The joyride was over. 222 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,920 The bubble, the proverbial bubble had burst and the mortgage industry just started to 223 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,160 hemorrhage people. 224 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,960 Everybody was leaving it, and most of which never came back into the industry. 225 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,200 And some of these people were in the industry that I knew had been in it for 15 years. 226 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,500 And they just didn't recover from it and kind of moved on, got more of a traditional type 227 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,000 of job. 228 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:52,400 So I want to talk a little bit about between 2008 and 2009, what was going on. 229 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,000 As I mentioned, everyone took a severe pay cut. 230 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:01,320 The inventory was, I mean, it's such a surplus. 231 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,980 You would drive, I can remember driving by builder sites and they were literally builder 232 00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:08,160 sites that had been abandoned. 233 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,880 Now these were big sites where people were building a bunch of single family homes. 234 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:13,880 They were there. 235 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,640 They were still the backhoes on the property. 236 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,360 Sometimes there was already curbs and different things put into the community. 237 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,240 Gone, ghost town. 238 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,440 They just shut down and a lot of them went bankrupt at the time. 239 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,240 And that lasted for quite some time. 240 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,640 And I really look at it from the middle of 2008 until the end of 2009. 241 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:40,800 I mean, it was between the recession that we had going on in this country, led by the 242 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,080 real estate, the mortgage market. 243 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,460 They were really tough times for us in this industry and any of you that were working 244 00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:49,100 at that time. 245 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:54,640 Now the other thing that we saw going on behind the scenes were then the bailouts for the 246 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:55,640 banks. 247 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:02,320 The banks were so heavily entrenched in mortgage type products, different products and different 248 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,480 hedges they had going on behind the scenes within the mortgage industry. 249 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,680 And I'll title it a real estate as well, that as you know, the government started bailing 250 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,320 out banks. 251 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,560 And what a lot of people do not know is once the government started to bail out any of 252 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,480 the big banks, they made all the banks get a bailout. 253 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,800 So even if you were a bank that didn't feel as though you needed it, everybody got the 254 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,320 money. 255 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,560 And I think that was really to not create a panic in the marketplace as to, oh my gosh, 256 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,960 this bank I've been banking with forever just took all this money from the government and 257 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,280 this bank over there didn't. 258 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,760 And what's going on with our financial system to the credit of the government, they just 259 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,440 made it uniform across the board, all of which have money's long since been paid back. 260 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,360 But they were scary times. 261 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,400 We saw our stock market crashing. 262 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,680 We saw a lot of challenges in the economy as a whole. 263 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,720 Where I was going in 2009, at the end of 2009, the decision was made by the Federal Reserve 264 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,160 to start to cut rates, interest rates dropped significantly. 265 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,640 And they dropped, I even remember where I was. 266 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,640 Like the market was so bad. 267 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:14,400 I was in Atlantic City at a meeting and I got the phone call that interest rates had 268 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,400 dropped significantly. 269 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:20,400 I was like, oh my gosh, I got to get back up and get back to work, get back to my desk. 270 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,080 And it really, it breathes some life back into the mortgage industry and it breathed 271 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:31,420 life back into the economy because what it did is it helped the consumer as well refinance 272 00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:34,560 their mortgage into a lower rate. 273 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,300 And with some government programs, they have programs like HARP that allowed you to refinance 274 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:43,880 that mortgage even if you were in an upside equity position on the property. 275 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,760 And the goal really is how do we get people's payments down to put them in a situation to 276 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,000 survive the storm? 277 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,560 And things started to change then to get everything under control. 278 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:01,000 Now another thing I would say about at least my industry and the real estate industry is 279 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:07,000 as everybody left the business, man, it took a long time for this business to recuperate. 280 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,080 So there was always a farming system in our industry. 281 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,240 There's new people coming in at all times that you're coaching, you're developing, and 282 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,840 that you're trying to show them how to or lead them down the path of success in the 283 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,240 business. 284 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,760 After 2008, 2009, nobody came into the business. 285 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:29,520 And they literally did not come in the business again in like 2013 and 2014. 286 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,040 And it was the darkest time in the industry from that standpoint. 287 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:39,240 I would say from an overall business standpoint, as the interest rates stayed low, it certainly 288 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:44,000 helped the American consumer to refinance their mortgage and get their payments down. 289 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:50,200 And it also did a lot to support the mortgage industry to keep that churning in conjunction 290 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:55,680 with the real estate industry because low rates just increases the demand again for 291 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:56,680 properties. 292 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,360 You know, one other thing that I would mention is because people were starting to default 293 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:05,200 on their mortgages, foreclosures were starting to hit the marketplace. 294 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,640 Now there's always been a certain level of foreclosures that you anticipate from a lending 295 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:10,640 standpoint, right? 296 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,480 You know, not everyone in the country is going to always be able to pay their mortgage. 297 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:15,960 There is some default rate. 298 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,060 But you build that into algorithms as to what you're prepared for. 299 00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:25,580 And what we saw in that 2008, 9, 10 marketplace, the banks weren't prepared for it. 300 00:19:25,580 --> 00:19:30,840 They had never seen this type of onslaught of people not paying their mortgage. 301 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,440 And a new term really came into the industry. 302 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,000 It was an old term, but it was something that resurfaced. 303 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,720 And it was the concept of short sale. 304 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:45,720 How do I sell my house for less money than it's worth and have the bank forgive the difference? 305 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,160 And there were no real processes in place for this, right? 306 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:54,980 So the banks never they had a like this convoluted, let me pull it out of the filing cabinet process, 307 00:19:54,980 --> 00:19:58,020 but they weren't prepared for the thousands and thousands of phone calls that were going 308 00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:01,400 to come in for people that were in this situation. 309 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:07,960 And you saw people short selling their properties to try to get out from under. 310 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,880 Now one thing that was also going on in the industry is if you were short selling your 311 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,520 property for more than a certain dollar amount than what it was worth, that loss, like that 312 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,080 $50,000 loss that the bank was taken, that was looked as income in a lot of situations 313 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,080 for people as well. 314 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,880 So it was kind of claimable income at the end of the tax year. 315 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,880 Now I'm not a tax expert. 316 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,140 It was just my understanding of what was going on. 317 00:20:31,140 --> 00:20:35,440 But you can see why everything got so dire at that time. 318 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,600 The other shift that I saw in the industry then is back in the late 90s and even early 319 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:49,880 2000s, about 80% of this business was really driven by the lender and then 20% was direct 320 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:50,880 to the bank. 321 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,360 And let me kind of clarify that. 322 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:56,820 So if you're a lender, you might be selling these mortgages over to the bank, but the 323 00:20:56,820 --> 00:21:01,120 retail person that's taking that transaction, they don't work directly for the bank. 324 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:08,320 They work for a third party company, big lender, small lender, broker, a lot of different things. 325 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,760 After the market changed, it completely inverted. 326 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,360 And it really became the time of the big bank because so many of these companies went out 327 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:16,560 of business. 328 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:22,280 And then it became 80% plus of the market became direct to the bank with much smaller 329 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,400 amounts of that business coming from the lenders. 330 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,600 Well, why? 331 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,180 The banks wouldn't buy it anymore. 332 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:33,640 So if you're a bank and now you're trying to preserve what you have going on and you 333 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:41,760 have a line of credit, let's say with a third party company lender for $100 million, well, 334 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:42,760 maybe you're not in... 335 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,040 They call that correspondent lending. 336 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,740 Maybe you have to look at that and say, maybe we shouldn't correspond lend anymore because 337 00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:50,460 we can't control the quality. 338 00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:52,040 We have to maintain our customer base. 339 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,320 We've got to focus internally. 340 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,580 And you saw a lot of that going on. 341 00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:58,300 So this business got really, really tight. 342 00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:03,680 So the guidelines to be approved for a mortgage changed significantly overnight. 343 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,320 They went from giving money out to everybody, tighten up. 344 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,560 Man, you have got to fit into that box and it's got to be very specific for someone to 345 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,440 qualify for a mortgage. 346 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,240 So there was certainly, again, there was certainly the dark times of the industry. 347 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:25,040 And in retrospect on it, there were a lot of things that we could have done as an industry, 348 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:32,360 as organizationally educating the consumer and all of that. 349 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,480 But sometimes you just don't know until you go through something like that. 350 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,920 And I'll give you an example. 351 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,600 When you look at credit, there was no such thing as one of these credit monitoring companies 352 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,040 back then. 353 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,200 Nobody knew. 354 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,360 So you knew maybe you weren't paying your bills on time, but you really didn't get any 355 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:53,340 real time evaluation as to what was going on in your credit world. 356 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:59,160 That came after the recession and after that crash where people looked at it and said, 357 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,160 you know what, there's really an opportunity here for people to become more educated in 358 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,880 the field of credit and how can they have access to real time credit updates so they 359 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,920 can stay on top of those things. 360 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,960 But prior to that, I mean, there was nothing that existed like that. 361 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:20,440 Prior to that, the concept of a foreclosure or a short sale was like super taboo, right? 362 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,440 Foreclosed on, oh my gosh. 363 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,040 And when we're going through that time, it became almost commonplace. 364 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:32,600 And it was, again, these were times that you learn from and they're times that you grow 365 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,240 from. 366 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,500 So I'm going to fast forward a little bit and start to tie this in into today's market, 367 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:42,680 but I'm going to look at the timeframe from 2014 to 2019. 368 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,680 So what was going on there? 369 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,080 All right, people are coming back into the industry, right? 370 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,800 So you got mortgage people saying, all right, maybe it's a good career path for me. 371 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,000 You have more real estate agents coming back in the industry. 372 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,680 And it started to become a slightly more balanced market again. 373 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:02,040 And you started to see the stabilization and even the slight appreciation of homes again, 374 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,600 where you saw such a significant dip prior to that. 375 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,400 And it was really it was a healthy time in the marketplace for everyone to be able to 376 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,200 build and grow normalization of interest rates, right? 377 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,360 So interest rates weren't at 3%. 378 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:17,560 They weren't at 10%. 379 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,920 They were in that healthy, you know, five, six percent range, which is going to that's 380 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,080 more of a balanced market. 381 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,280 And you're starting to equal out that supply and that demand. 382 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,120 The other thing that happened in the industry is there was a bill passed in 2010 called 383 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:33,280 the Dodd-Frank Act. 384 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,200 And that started to regulate the mortgage industry. 385 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:42,940 So prior to that act being released, there was in the mortgage industry, there were some 386 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:48,880 lenders that would pay their employees based on how much they were charging the buyer or 387 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,640 the borrower. 388 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,120 And I'm not going to qualify it one way or the other. 389 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:59,480 You know, they're salespeople and that spread on that loan could make you more money. 390 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,640 You sell a higher rate, you're making more money on it. 391 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,800 I never worked for an organization that allowed that. 392 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,600 So I can't relate to it directly. 393 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,560 I just know what was going on in the industry at the time. 394 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,400 And when this act was passed, it basically said, you can't do that. 395 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,680 So you can no longer pay a mortgage person based on the product that they're selling, 396 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,560 based on interest rate, premium that they may be selling, the type of loan that they 397 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:25,920 may be selling. 398 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,920 And that's good for the consumer and that's good for the marketplace. 399 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,700 So it's now a very even playing field. 400 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:38,240 So there's no incentive in my industry if the interest rate is at six percent to sell 401 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,600 you six and a half percent because there's no financial incentive for the loan officer, 402 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,560 the salesperson that's involved with it. 403 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,100 You go back 20 years ago, that was the case. 404 00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:50,460 So that should be reassuring to the to the consumer. 405 00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:55,040 So there was also a lot of different there was a an organization put in place called 406 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,900 the Consumer Protection Finance Bureau that governs more than just the mortgage industry. 407 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:04,480 But it's really just a consumer, a federal consumer watchdog to try and help and regulate 408 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,480 everything. 409 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,200 So all of these things are good for the industry and they still promote healthy competition 410 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,760 between lenders. 411 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,840 But it also provides significantly more clarity to the consumer, which is important because 412 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:22,880 when you go back to the late 90s or the earlier 2000s, it's that clarity didn't necessarily 413 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,880 exist. 414 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,440 And even if you try to explain something to the consumer to the best of your ability, 415 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,960 were they still really clear about it? 416 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:29,960 Right. 417 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,960 Did they really understand what would happen in an adjustable rate when that rate does 418 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,660 adjust if they can't refinance? 419 00:26:34,660 --> 00:26:38,720 So all of these things are good for our industry. 420 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040 Now I'm going to fast forward to 2020. 421 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,040 What happened in 2020? 422 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,040 Well, you get covid. 423 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,640 If the business shut down. 424 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,960 I mean, as all of our businesses did, so did the real estate market. 425 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:58,260 And when they started to pull back in March of 2020, the industry shut down essentially 426 00:26:58,260 --> 00:27:01,040 for for a couple of months. 427 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:07,160 And what sent everybody a lifeline on that, at least in the real estate and mortgage industry, 428 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,400 was a significant reduction to interest rates. 429 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,400 Right. 430 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,460 We had cut interest rates so low and that wasn't a United States thing. 431 00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:16,300 That was a world thing. 432 00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:20,000 Everyone cut the interest rates and that created opportunity. 433 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:27,160 Another opportunity for people that may be purchased between 2013 and 2020 and were in 434 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,080 an interest rate of five, six, seven percent gave the afforded them the ability to refinance 435 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,860 and save money monthly. 436 00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:37,680 The other thing that it did is it stimulated the housing economy. 437 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,360 So when interest rates dropped to three percent in some stages, even under that. 438 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:47,040 Well, that creates a lot of opportunity because it makes it much more appealing from a home 439 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,320 buyer standpoint to purchase the house. 440 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,320 Right. 441 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,320 It keeps your payment really, really low. 442 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:57,360 And as we all know, the I don't want to say the downside of that, but the result of that 443 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,840 is what do you see happen to values? 444 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,640 More people want to buy kind of going back to our supply and demand. 445 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,400 There's a limited amount of houses that can be sold in that increases the pricing. 446 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,400 Right. 447 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,300 More people want it increases the pricing when there's not enough supply for it. 448 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:15,960 And we saw that happen. 449 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,560 Now, a lot of things that or something that I hear from people is look at how much the 450 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,480 market value has went up. 451 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,280 And that is true when you look at the three year window of what's happened with property 452 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,280 values. 453 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,920 You know, they've went up significantly. 454 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,980 Double digit returns. 455 00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:38,800 But the bigger picture on that is how much did they go down by? 456 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:39,800 Right. 457 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:45,840 There were some markets that it took until 2020 for them to recover what they lost, even 458 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:52,760 in 2021 for them to recover the value that they lost from 2008, nine and 10. 459 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:58,240 So when you look at the overall 10 year time frame, the values haven't skyrocketed at the 460 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,320 level that it feels over the course of the past couple few years. 461 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,320 Another question I get a lot is I'm going to wait. 462 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,320 Right. 463 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,560 I'm going to wait until this market crashes and you know, then I'm going to capitalize 464 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,640 on an opportunity from a real estate standpoint. 465 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,720 The challenge is it's a completely different market. 466 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,600 And when we look at 2008, that's 15 years ago. 467 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,240 And as I had said before, what happened there is you got all this supply and you got no 468 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,960 demand and that crashes the pricing. 469 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:33,940 What we see now in this market, even with interest rates going up, there's no supply. 470 00:29:33,940 --> 00:29:38,140 So now you still have all these these people looking to buy. 471 00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:43,120 In a lot of ways, we have more people looking to buy today than we did two years ago because 472 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,960 those people weren't able to purchase a house over the course of the past couple of years 473 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,760 and you still have limited supply. 474 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:50,880 So what happens? 475 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,520 That keeps the prices stable. 476 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,640 In some markets, you can even see prices continue to increase. 477 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,920 So you see people that are waiting for an opportunity for prices to go down. 478 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,040 And the simple reality of the matter is there's no supply. 479 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Right. 480 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,320 And as supply stays here and demand continues to go up on everything, you're not going to 481 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,320 see prices plummet. 482 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,400 Unlike the 2008 where prices plummeted because there was too much supply and not enough demand. 483 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,960 The other thing that's happened is we have a pent up demand of people looking to buy 484 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,320 homes from the first time home buyer market. 485 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,680 And the reason for that, the past three years, they couldn't touch a house. 486 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,680 Those people who organically would have purchased a home in their early 30s weren't able to 487 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:39,040 compete with people that are maybe selling their existing home and purchasing a new home. 488 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,480 They were termed out of the market. 489 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,480 Right. 490 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,280 They didn't have huge money to put down. 491 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,000 So they weren't able to get into a home. 492 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,200 So now you got three years of pent up demand from first time home buyers that are carrying 493 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:55,200 forward into 2023, which should maintain the stability in the pricing. 494 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,900 The other thing I would mention is when you look at things nationally, depending on what 495 00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:03,520 you read or who you listen to, the housing shortage in this country is about four million 496 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,400 units, four million units. 497 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,340 It's going to take a decade to try to start to match that demand. 498 00:31:10,340 --> 00:31:14,880 So point being, I don't think we're going to see any type of a crash moving forward. 499 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,400 So I just want to land the plane on this a little bit and talk about 2008 in this current 500 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,400 market. 501 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,200 2008 was an anomaly. 502 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:31,040 It was an anomaly with a housing market, with a lending market, all of which was backed 503 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,320 by the banking in the stock market. 504 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,200 It just caused this massive collapse that we all saw. 505 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,520 And there's been so many provisions put into place since then to make sure that that type 506 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,780 of significant event doesn't happen moving forward. 507 00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:51,160 And then you couple that with the fact that we have this continued limited supply, which 508 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,900 we all know about if we're trying to buy a house right now. 509 00:31:54,900 --> 00:32:00,280 You just don't see the property value shifting that much and certainly not going to see any 510 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,800 type of crash in the immediate future. 511 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,440 Interest rates are going to be what they're going to be. 512 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,160 They've returned to something that's a little bit more normal historically. 513 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,000 And we'll see some ebbs and flows associated with it. 514 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,600 If you're sitting around waiting for interest rates to drop into the threes, you might be 515 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:20,840 waiting a really long time, maybe decades, maybe forever, because that was the one time 516 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,160 that I've ever seen something like that in the 25 years that I've been doing it. 517 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,860 It's the only time I've ever even heard of something like that. 518 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:30,400 So with that all being said, if you have any questions at all about it, you can feel free 519 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,360 to reach out to me directly. 520 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,280 Greg at your mortgage process dot com. 521 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,520 I obviously I like talking about this stuff. 522 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,800 So anything you need or anything I can do to help just reach out to me. 523 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,920 And I appreciate everyone listening to the show again. 524 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,880 Greg Wareham at your mortgage process. 525 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,880 I'll catch up with you soon. 526 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,880 Bye guys. 527 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:54,120 Thank you for tuning in to this week's edition of your mortgage process hosted by Greg Wareham 528 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:59,120 produced by Greg Wareham and Nick Pavese at the social rift and executively produced by 529 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,680 the social rift. 530 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,480 Thank you again for tuning in and we look forward to catching up with you next week.