Hello everybody and welcome to this week's edition of Your Mortgage Process.
I am of course your host, Greg Wareham.
We got a great guest for you today, Mr. Terry Darling.
Terry, how you doing?
Hey, Greg.
Good morning and thanks for having me on to talk today.
It's great to be here.
No, pleasure having you on.
So Terry owns Home Safe Inspections and you're in the home inspection business.
That's right.
We're full service home inspectors and we cover from Monmouth all the way to Bergen
County all over New Jersey.
That's great, Terry.
And I want everyone to hear this out for a second.
So we're going to, Terry and I are doing the podcast today, but this is going to be followed
up by an on-site inspection that you're going to be able to view on YouTube and online.
So it's going to be really great.
We're going to talk about a lot of things that we're going to do for that home inspection
today, and then everyone's going to get to see it in video because it's kind of an unknown
for someone that hasn't bought a house before, what the process is like.
Yeah, that's great.
And setting expectation and making sure that the buyer, especially the first time buyer,
sort of knows what to expect on inspection and the type of information they're going
to get.
Sure.
So before we start getting into it, Terry, tell us about you.
How did you get into this business?
We chatted a little off air, so I know the answer.
Go ahead.
My real estate career actually began on the appraisal side.
I'm also a certified residential appraiser, and I have been for a long time.
So I started in the business that way.
I learned as an independent fee appraiser.
I worked for Bank of America and LandSafe and CoreLogic as a staff appraiser for about
12 years here in New Jersey.
And a lot of changes with that industry, like every industry, I knew that I wanted to go
into business for myself again, but I wanted to be in a business that was serving the client,
the person.
Sure.
You know, I wanted to be in a business that the client in the real estate transaction
found value in and also gave us a chance to really be in direct contact with that client.
So that's really what led me into home inspection.
And we founded HomeSafe in 2019.
We're growing every year.
We're adding services every year.
And we're trying to add value to the client experience all the time.
That's great.
Congratulations, Terry.
And you know, I have a fondness for people in the appraisal business.
Terry and I were talking off air.
I met my wife, Rachel, because she was a staff appraiser for Champion Mortgage at the time.
And I think Terry may have handled some transactions for Champion back in the late 90s.
So you may have been on some other.
We may have been on some deals together and didn't even know it.
Yeah.
And here we come full circle.
That's it.
So so you got into the business.
It was a natural segue from coming from an appraisal background.
So when you look at making that transition, right, so you understand houses because you
were an appraiser.
How do you get into the technical aspect of it when you're going to start to inspect homes?
Well, the classroom side, the training for a home inspector is is pretty significant.
You're looking at one hundred and forty hours in the classroom, plus your apprenticeship
time.
So and I was very, very blessed to have some terrific mentors to work with me directly
here in New Jersey and also on the national level, too.
So that was terrific.
You know, there's a lot to learn.
I've taken a lot of exams over my life.
There's probably not anyone that's more comprehensive than the home inspector exam, because really
you're looking at building material and design and concepts from eighteen fifty to the present
day.
Right.
For the entire country.
So you're looking at, you know, the way we build homes, the way we cool homes and say
Arizona isn't the same as the way we cool a home here.
Sure.
Right.
So there's just this vast amount of knowledge.
But you know, you commit to that and the training and so when you so you get that hundred and
forty hours of classroom time, excuse me, and then we're we have an apprenticeship.
Now does that class time include parts from all over the country or do they focus specifically
on kind of our tri-state area?
Well, you focus more primarily on the northeast, right, in the building styles and designs
here.
But you really you are touching on everything, you know, to some degree, too.
So you're touching on, you know, things that exist in the southwest like swamp coolers
for air conditioning that, you know, we're never going to see.
What the heck is a swamp cooler?
Something you're never going to see, right?
Makes me uncomfortable.
I know.
It just sounds strange, right?
So you do have to touch on some of those things, too.
But OK.
But yeah, your focus really was mostly here.
So and that's good.
So as a home inspector, what do you what do you think your primary job is?
Like, how do you see your role in the process?
So, you know, in sort of everything I do, I always think about purpose, right?
Like what's the purpose?
What drives you in the big things and the little things in life?
And as a home inspector, the purpose of the inspector is a little bit different than the
client's purpose.
The purpose of a home inspection really is to find defects in the home, report them to
the client, and then also teach the client how to operate that house, how to live in
that house and operate it going forward so that it's healthy and safe for them, not just
right now, but in years to come, too.
And that's really like our why.
But the client side is a little different because a client looks at a home inspection
and why does anybody ever hire a home inspector?
And this really kind of goes back to why I got into this this line of the business in
the first place.
When you think about a real estate transaction, you think about all the things that have to
happen, you're well versed in all those things, right?
From the agent to the mortgage title, appraisal, flood insurance on some properties, right?
All of these things, they're all required, right?
I mean, with some exceptions, if you're a cash buyer, you can eliminate the mortgage
piece, but for the most part, they're all required pieces of the transaction.
Correct.
Like if you're getting a loan like a traditional home buyer, all those things are needed to
be done.
The home inspection, it's not.
It's an option, right?
For essentially all mortgage products, right?
Optional.
I mean, the lender doesn't even usually see the home inspection.
We don't want to see it.
Right.
Matter of fact, it'd be super taboo to receive it because it's too granular for an underwriter
to say, yes.
Oh, my gosh, what's wrong with everything?
Right.
Well, hands up, right?
Exactly.
This is the one line of business that nobody needs, but if you're delivering value, everybody
should want.
Right.
It's well put.
And that's one of the reasons that really drove me to it and kind of pushed me away
from the appraisal end because clients don't see value in that, right?
But in this, if you're delivering the kind of customer service experience, even if there
are no defects or very few defects in a house, if you're giving someone that customer service
experience, this is something they should find value in and want to have done.
And it's kind of curious because during the pandemic, you saw people passing on inspection
because it made their offer more attractive, you know, for one thing.
And so I felt like it made us sort of raise our game even more because here, a lot of
clients are passing on this.
You may not be asking for things on an inspection contingency for a repair anyway or a credit
anyway.
Why do you still want to have this done?
Because you're going to learn so much about that house that it's going to be a value to
have a home inspection.
You know, it was one of the downfalls of that covid market, in my opinion, where the home
inspection got eliminated in a lot of situations.
And it's absolutely critical that people understand the house.
I've owned several houses over the course of time.
I don't understand how to operate it.
I still put, you know, it's fine even in my house now.
Where's that water shut off again?
Like, right.
And it's I love what you hit on with the educational end of it, because, yes, you have to go through
the house.
We're looking for technical issues.
But so much of that as well as the education to the potential buyer of understanding how
they operate everything.
And for someone like me, they can't hang a picture on the wall.
You know, I need that.
Yeah, right.
I need that.
And had you inspected my house, I'd probably still be calling.
Where is this theory?
But but anyway, that's that's fantastic.
So we're looking at the educational end of it, the technical end of it.
I just want to drill down a little bit on the technical end of it.
So when you go into a house, what are you looking for?
Like, what's the process look like?
Well, there are four major components, you know, really of every home, the structure,
and foundation, plumbing and heating, electrical.
You know, those are the main things that obviously you're looking at.
But the home inspection is more comprehensive than that, of course.
We look at it, you know, when we're on inspection, we always like to sort of overlap.
We like to go over things more than once every time you see a house.
You know, you remember, like the first time you see a house, you know, you're there for
a couple of minutes is like a first date.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh, it's great.
And then you make an offer and you're like, oh, you're going to, you know, marry this
house for 30 years after a first date.
The second time you're there, I hate the shoes.
That second time you're there, you're spending more time, you're seeing different things
every time.
And then after you move in, you're like, oh, I didn't notice that.
You know, so you're always seeing more and more things, which is why on inspection we
have a we formulate our policy or protocol so that we overlap, you know, at least two
times on every section of the house.
But as far as a buyer and what they need to understand, like what's included, you brought
up the water main, where the shutoff is.
Those things are vital on every inspection.
You need to know that as a homeowner, the gas shutoff, where that's located as well.
The electric main panel and shutoff and then any sub panels are obviously important.
I can't wait to have you at my house inspecting it.
Yeah, you write it on the wall for me.
But anyway, I interrupted.
All good.
Electrical heating, plumbing, we're looking at structural.
What are some so when you go in and those are all major concerns.
So I know part of an inspection will be some other things as well, just identify to the
potential homeowner.
So when you go in and look at structural, what are some red flags that you may see?
Well, with structural in the foundation, you're always looking for cracks, especially lateral
cracks and movement in the foundation.
OK.
Prior repairs.
I just want to clarify that.
So lateral, what do you mean by that?
So the audience understands.
Yeah.
So, you know, lateral cracks versus horizontal.
There can be a real significant difference in what's actually happening and what's kind
of moving.
OK.
So you know, so lateral is going to be that's kind of the vertical.
Right.
And then you have horizontal.
If lateral is more important, why?
What's happening?
It's actually really not.
Lateral cracks are more common, but oftentimes they're not really too big of a red flag.
It's that horizontal or that step crack that can be showing movement, which can be a bigger
concern.
Now, is there a certain size of a crack that's a big alarm?
You know, hairline, quarter in it.
I've heard all sorts of different things.
Yeah.
Usually if you can get your fingertip in there, it's a little more of a concern.
I mean, most my home has foundational cracks, too, that have been sealed up.
So you take a look at them over time.
That's why keeping your inspection reports important as well.
And because you can look back at your photos and say, because how are you going to know?
Did that really change over a year or not?
You know, like so that's a good reference point to go back and look at with structure.
We always look at prior repairs.
Sometimes we've seen trusses cut in the attic structure where somebody's added air conditioning
and air handler.
Later, they've cut trusses and all this.
And that means kind of the actual wood, the two by fours that support the roof.
Yeah.
And if those are cut, you know, yikes, that's yeah, that doesn't seem like a good idea.
No, right.
It's not typically not.
So foundation structure is definitely a big one.
You know, roofing, of course, everybody wants to know, right.
You know, how long is your roof going to last?
I wish I could tell everybody, you know, there's no crystal ball to know exactly how long it's
going to last.
I want to come back to roofing in one second, but one more question on structural because
it's really important.
So if we've identified something that that it's not necessarily an issue, but it could
be a potential concern.
And kind of my experience with that is most things you can fix, correct?
If it was really felt it was a big deal.
Yeah.
Right.
So I don't know that anything's always necessarily a deal killer.
It's just trying to understand what needs to get done.
And do we need a structural engineer or do we need to take it to the next level?
Correct.
Yeah.
And even with structure, almost everything can be fixed.
There are very few homes that, you know, there's nothing you can do here.
Right.
In fact, we've never really had anything like that.
But a client, a buyer can hear a structure and, you know, it's an alarm.
It's a red flag.
Exactly.
Oh, my God, the structure, it's going to collapse while I'm sleeping.
But a lot of times it's, you know, a cracked or broken joist.
Right.
And it's pretty easy to just sister that and fix it.
It's really not even all that expensive and pretty easy to do.
So you know, whatever the information is, how you give it to the client, how you explain
it to them, it really goes a long way because you just tell someone, hey, broken joist needs
to be replaced.
You know, you can have somebody run it for the hills when really, if they understand
how it's corrected and know that it's really not that big a deal, you know, the repairs
is nothing that can't be overcome.
Right.
So you have to have a good communication with it.
Yeah.
And coming back to the roof, because that's going to be a common one.
That's what the average person like myself would say.
Yeah.
Hey, how long is this roof going to be good for?
How long is the HVAC system good for?
Right.
We want to know that.
So when you look at a roof, what are some of the telltale signs of longevity of that
roof, remaining longevity?
Well, with a roof, we always try to find out in a disclosure, you know, when it was replaced
last.
But again, some people don't always know.
Some people may not be, you know, completely forthcoming.
Yeah.
Right.
So there is that architectural shingle roofs, you know, the modern day asphalt shingle roof,
they do show their age really well.
You know, it's hard to tell if one's five years old or 15 years old as opposed to the
old three tab roof.
You kind of had a better idea because of the way they aged.
The good news with the architectural shingle roof is it's a 30 year roof, you know, if
it's installed correctly.
So you do usually get a lot of life out of them.
You know, with a roof inspection, we either walk it or we fly it or we do both.
You know, if we can do both, we'll certainly do that as well.
I always like to walk a roof if we can, because you learn, you know, you just you're on it.
You know, you're going to learn more about it.
But you're a braver man than me.
So you're walking around on the roof.
I had to change the floodlights that are up in my roof.
And I shimmied off up on that roof and I changed them.
And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to die.
I'm going to get off and I got it down on my belly trying to get out.
Anyway, I don't mean to digress.
So but it's common, though, for you to use a drone to look at the roofing.
Yeah, the drone's been great.
You know, it lets us go places that we just normally couldn't go for safety reasons and,
you know, different things like that.
So it's terrific.
And, you know, clients love it because you get great footage from all angles.
Yeah, that's great.
Now, how about from an electrical standpoint?
What are some of the main things that we're looking at?
Yeah.
So with the electrical portion of the home inspection, obviously, we're going to operate
all the fixtures, switches, you know, everything we can operate in the home we will.
But we look at the electrical system at the panel at the service entry and then also at
the panel, too.
So we take the panel cover off.
We're going to inspect the inside of it to make sure it was wired properly.
Some of the most common defects we find are double tap breakers, double tap neutrals where
a breaker has two wires attached to it where it should only have one.
Things like that that, you know, a homeowner is just not going to see.
And also, you know, if you bring, you know, dad or Uncle Joe, who's a contractor, they're
not going to take the panel cover off for you.
You know, they're not licensed and insured as an inspector to do things like that.
So those are things that you're going to miss if you're going to, you know, choose to skip
on the inspection.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Do you see any fuse boxes anymore?
Very rarely.
Sometimes they're left over very rarely.
But you know what we see often in New Jersey still are the Federal Pacific panels.
So what's that mean?
So the Federal Pacific panels were in use from the 50s to about the 80s.
They were made right here in Newark, New Jersey, which is why you see so many here.
And they have a really high failure rate.
Their failure rate is about 25 percent.
Oh, my goodness.
So which failure mean?
So Federal Pacific panels utilize stab lock breakers.
If you ever see a stab lock breaker, it has red on the tip on the end of it.
You'll see they can overheat for really no reason.
And so that's why they're not in use anymore.
And it used to be and I think it still is where FHA would not loan on a home with a
Federal Pacific panel.
So any time we see a Federal Pacific panel, we immediately call for for it to be replaced.
And as far as I know, every home inspector in New Jersey does.
You just they're dangerous.
Yeah, they're too high a failure rate.
So that's something that you know, that's something if you bring over Uncle Bob or Aunt
Sally that's going to inspect it, they don't know.
They may not know.
Yeah.
I mean, it's unless that's what you do.
Right.
And that's one thing, too, that our realtor friends, too, when they're looking at a listing
appointment, you know, to take a listing as you're kind of walking through the house.
If you see something like a Federal Pacific panel, that's something you can, you know,
counsel that client on and say, listen, we're going to have to look to either replace this
or a seller or buyer is going to look for a credit for this.
So, you know, keep that in mind as you're getting ready to list the house.
It wouldn't be a terrible idea with permission to be able to take a picture of it and send
it to you.
Yeah, right.
Absolutely.
You can kind of take a quick look at it.
And if they have a question or a doubt, then, you know, we can help out without even having
to make a site visit.
Sure.
So I wanted something else popped into my mind with that.
So as a home seller, is it a good idea for me to get an inspection done prior to listing
my house for sale?
That's a good question.
And just yesterday, we got a call from from a client who booked us for his mother's house.
She will eventually be going into a health care situation or, you know, assisted living.
Yeah, assisted living situation.
And so he's looking down the road to do that later this year.
House was built in 1860.
It was a cider mill.
It was used as a cider mill when it was built and it's been converted to a house.
He lives in Connecticut.
So he's not the everyday user of the house.
And those are the typical client for a pre-listing inspection is someone who's not the everyday
user.
So someone who's inheriting or a landlord who had a tenant occupant who's not there
every day.
You may not really have the kind of understanding of what issues the house may have.
And pre-listing inspections are good really for anybody to get an idea like that.
But especially those people that don't use the house every day.
So that as you're looking to market it, you're kind of going in with your eyes wide open
on what the typical buyer is going to expect either have fixed or have a credit.
It almost seems critical to have it done if you're not familiar with the house at all.
You got to at least understand what's going on in the house.
Yeah, I think it is really helpful.
Okay.
Now, I want to jump back over to like heating and plumbing and all of that.
So what do we look for?
How long is my air conditioning unit good for?
Yeah.
So we do look at all those things.
We'll test and operate everything we can.
And we'll also report on the age.
You can never guess.
You can't look in the future and go, oh, this is going to last however long.
It's going to be five more years.
Because some units, I bought a house in 2007 and the water heater was 29 years old.
It was working great.
It shouldn't have been working anymore.
Right.
And it was the first thing I replaced before it went out.
But a water heater typically lasts about 10 years and that was going on 30.
So with proper maintenance and a little bit of luck, things can last a lot longer than
they should.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared to replace it.
And so that's kind of how we counsel people.
Your air conditioning unit, you can expect it to last about 15 years or so.
But if it's 13 years old and it goes out next year, you shouldn't be overly surprised because
it's getting to be of that age.
So that's really how we counsel people because you can't tell anybody, oh, this is going
to last another year or whatever.
You just need to say, be prepared to replace this because it's getting to be around that
time.
Information, you just need to know if you're going to buy the house.
All right.
This may have a five year shelf life.
You could have a two year, a 10 year.
But just understanding what you're getting into when you're purchasing the home.
And then sometimes there's other information available.
So sometimes you have that seller who's been a little bit OCD or just a really very maintenance
savvy seller.
And you see they've got records where an HVAC technician has been here every year for the
last 10 years and they're taking really good care of that furnace.
Well, I would expect that furnace is probably going to last, right?
As opposed to somebody who hasn't changed the filter in three years and it's got dust
hanging all over it.
That person probably isn't.
Have you been to my house?
No secrets here.
No secrets, Greg.
But yeah, sometimes you learn things too that feel like this component or system has a better
shot at a longer life than another one.
It's also important when they come in, there's different types of systems.
So there's that forced hot air system.
There's like the boiler.
Yeah.
I've been down that road before, but it's you know, there's so many different options,
right?
And they have different functionality, different maintenance, different lifespans.
You know, I don't know if this is true or not just my personal experience, but I feel
like the forced hot air system seems to last longer than something that has water pumping
through it.
That's not my personal experience.
And you know, the teaching part of teaching a client like what to do and what to expect
on things like that's really important because maintenance on a furnace, right?
It's a hot air system is completely different.
And if you have a steam boiler system, there are different things.
You may have a system you need to bleed it out, you know, to bleed the water out of it
on a weekly basis.
And the hot air system is a little different.
If it's split, you know, the air is running through that air handler all year through
your air conditioning and your heating.
And so you need to know, you need to change that filter throughout the year, not just
in the wintertime.
And have some bad order ahead of time, everybody.
That's make sure you have them ready to go.
And you know, I tell people that too.
And the other thing people like to do now is you can set up Amazon to just send you
something, you know, periodically, right?
If you need that filter every three months, all of a sudden, boom, it just shows up on
the porch.
That's a great idea.
Right.
Because you never remember.
No, people don't.
You know, you're caught up in your own life.
You don't think about changing that.
Yeah, especially if you don't see it.
If it's not somewhere you're walking by it every day.
Right.
Yeah.
So those are some of the major things that that we're looking at.
What are some of the other things that we want to look at when we're going through our
house?
Well, the high level, the kitchen, the kitchen is big.
Yeah.
Right.
So the kitchen, we operate everything in the kitchen from the cabinets, windows, all the
fixtures, electric and plumbing fixtures, and then all the appliances.
So you know, you want to know your appliances work.
And then we also document those for age.
OK, because you need to know, you know, how old is something and when can you expect it
to to, you know, go out?
Do you find certain brands have a longer lifespan than other brands?
You know, I don't think so, Greg.
I mean, I've seen certain things go out, you know.
And even myself, like I had a great dishwasher.
I have a Bosch dishwasher versus GE.
I mean, what the heck's the difference?
I don't know, but I spent a lot of money on a dishwasher once and it lasted 18 months.
And so I bought a brand that I thought was probably inferior and it's still going strong.
OK, so I don't know.
I think it's probably the anecdotal a little bit.
And just, you know, sometimes you get a car that's great.
One brand and sometimes, you know, same brand and it's a lemon.
And sometimes even the individual unit that you buy.
Right.
So you get up two of the same brand and one's a lemon, one's not right.
Yeah.
But the appliance thing, that's one thing that even makes a new construction inspection
of value.
These technicians typically put an appliance in, leave all the packing in it and never
test it.
And people, I think, who are buying new construction don't realize that.
But one of the things we usually do is we take apart all the packing in the stove and
we take apart the dishwasher and run it.
Because I mean, who would think you're going to put something in and not test it?
But technicians just really don't.
It's pretty, pretty common.
That's a great point.
I can't think of anything that make your head blow up more than you buy new construction.
It's brand new.
You turn on it doesn't work.
Right.
And you can kind of see the spiral there.
Yeah.
And it happens all the time.
We had a trainee out with us two weeks ago and he was on three jobs in a row.
And funny enough, every dishwasher was a problem and two of them were new construction.
And so we've nicknamed him dishwasher now because he's got some luck with dishwashers.
But yeah, that happens more often than you think.
And I want to come to your team for a second because I know you have a team of inspectors
that work for your company.
Do you have people that specialize in particular areas or can everyone do the full inspection?
Our inspectors can do a full inspection.
However, we do specialize a little bit.
We do have inspectors who are sewer inspection certified.
We have inspectors who are FAA drone licensed pilots because you have to be a licensed pilot
to operate the drone professionally.
So yeah, we do specialize as well.
We have radon technicians.
So our inspectors have opportunity to expand their professional expertise within the company.
And we always encourage people to do that.
Before we come back to the interior of the house, I want to talk about the sewer inspection
that you just brought up.
So my thought on is, okay, well, it's a sewer system.
I don't even own the sewer system.
What could potentially be the problem there?
Yeah.
What do you say?
So the sewer line inspection, really what it does is it gives you an opportunity to
visually see the lateral sewer line that runs from the house all the way to the municipal
sewer line in the street or the septic tank if you happen to be on septic.
And why is that important?
Well, if you can't see it, you don't know what's happening.
We have a lot of older housing stock in New Jersey, and cast iron sewer pipes are common.
That's what I have in my home, too.
My home was built in the 20s.
Cast iron lines have a typical life of about 75 years or so.
And they deteriorate.
But other lines as well, even PVC lines, we find issues with.
We had a four-year-old house earlier this past fall that had pretty severe blockage
in it.
And that one had a snub-nosed screwdriver stuck in it.
How do you get that down the toilet?
Who flushed a screwdriver down the toilet?
So this could have been a construction guy.
It could have been when it was open still.
Like during construction, if someone dropped it, it fell in.
That's probably more likely with that one.
We had a squirrel.
We had a squirrel in the line just this last fall, too.
That was a bad day for that squirrel.
But you do see odd things.
The most common thing with lines are root penetrations, so tree roots will get in, especially
where the lines connect at the offsets.
That can cause a blockage.
If a line can have a belly or be sunken, so if it's not properly supported underneath
it, you can get a dip in it.
It can cause backups.
There's a lot of issues with sewer lines because you just don't really know what's happening
underneath.
Whose responsibility is that?
Is it the responsibility of the homeowner?
It is.
If it's on your property from where it runs to the home out to the municipal line, it
is your responsibility.
Oh my God.
What a disaster, right?
You got to tear up your yard.
You got to replace the pipe.
Incredibly expensive to replace sewer lines.
So that was one of the things that we talked a little bit before about the pandemic time
and clients skipping on the inspection.
That was something that more and more clients were adding on because even when a buyer's
negotiating power was softer on the inspection front, that was something that they felt strongly.
If there was an issue with the sewer line, they could push the seller to fix it because
it's so significant.
So we ended up doing more sewer scopes in 21 than ever because of that reason.
That makes sense.
If anyone's ever been there and had backed up, I remember the first house that we ever
bought, it was a septic system and the distribution box collapsed.
We'll talk about septic in a second.
You flush the toilet.
Started with you flush the toilet.
I'd lived in the house for a week.
Oh no.
Yeah.
And you know what?
The inspector, I just don't feel like he did a good job.
And maybe there wasn't a way to figure it out, but that's another story.
Started with first I flushed the toilet.
About five seconds later, I saw water coming onto the lawn.
I was like, huh, boy.
And then of course, I think I'm seeing things.
I'm like, honey, can you flush the toilet, please?
Tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle.
We got a problem.
And then eventually it just backed up.
Then you flush the toilet and the water starts coming into your house, into the bathroom.
It was a disaster.
And we didn't know.
And did it collapse in a week?
I don't know that it did, but I don't think anyone ever inspected it properly.
So kind of shifting gears on that, when you look at septic inspections, what do you look
for in those?
Well, you're looking for the same sort of things in the line as it runs out to the septic
and where it connects.
And with septic, I mean, the condition of the line, the material of the line is very
important.
And then when you say material, like PVC pipe, what it's really made of.
And then with a septic system, we always recommend to have the whole system looked at too, which
really you're going to open it up and look at the septic itself.
Leech field, all those things.
And I mean, a lot of times if you have a seller who's done a good job with their maintenance
and their records, sometimes that can make a buyer feel confident too.
I mean, really, that's what the inspection process is for, right?
To help a buyer feel more confident about the purchase that they're going to make or
to learn if there's something else here that either needs to be corrected or in those rare
circumstances too that maybe this is too much for me and I want to take a pass.
But really it's informational so that a buyer can be more confident in their decision.
Sure.
So when you're looking at the septic portion of it, you're looking at the leech field and
all of that, making sure everything's absorbing properly.
Yeah.
And there's no water coming out.
Baffles off.
Yeah.
I mean, people that have been there know what I'm talking about.
But yeah, I mean, you got to know that's another very expensive job.
Yeah.
I mean, you have to replace your septic system, big money.
That's right.
And unfortunately, if there's a smaller issue and sludge gets into the leech field, it's
a mess.
It can be.
You know, fortunately, I know from personal experience.
Sorry.
It's rough, especially after a week.
Hey, do you ever...
Oh, it's awful.
The oil, the boiler went within a couple of, within a month.
And we didn't have any money.
I had to borrow money from my parents to get it fixed at the time.
I had to pay them back too.
They didn't just let me skate on it.
So do you see any cesspools at all anymore?
Not really in most of our areas in Jersey, no.
Okay.
So we were up in Sussex County at the time.
So you probably see more of them up there.
All right.
So Nick's question is, how about oil tanks?
Do you do an oil tank sweep or do you recommend it for everything?
Yeah, we really do.
In New Jersey, oil tanks were really common.
And even with a new construction property, if you're not sure what was on that property
before, an oil tank sweep to indicate anything that might be an underground storage tank is
the best way to protect yourself and your investment.
What's it like a metal detector?
It really is.
It's like, yeah, it's a big time metal detector.
The oil tank inspectors also look for other things too, as far as like lines that were
cut where they penetrate into the basement, through the wall, things like that.
And then our inspectors can test for leaks if they find a tank as well.
A lot of tanks, we just had one in Jersey City where we found the tank.
They had filled it with sand in the 90s.
That seemed to be common, right?
It was common.
You just cut it and fill it.
That's right.
But the typical buyer now, that's not really adequate enough because you still want to
make sure you're protected.
I tell people you want to protect that investment.
A home inspection is a good way.
The oil tank sweep is really even a better way.
If you have an oil tank that's leaking, it gets into the groundwater, it's carried to
neighboring properties.
That homeowner is responsible for the contamination on any of those properties.
It's potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
So I mean, an oil tank sweep is the best thing you can do to protect yourself.
I wouldn't buy a property in Jersey without a tank sweep.
Yeah, no, makes sense, Terry.
We're going to go to a quick break.
Greg Wareham, Terry Darling.
He has a fantastic name, by the way.
We're going to come right back at you and wrap up.
Sounds good.
All right.
Thanks, Terry.
Hey, welcome back to your mortgage process, everybody.
I'm Greg Wareham.
We have Terry Darling with us today.
You know, Terry, I'm going to spare you the Ja Ja Gabor thing.
And you must have gotten that a million times.
Yeah, definitely.
So listen, when people remember your name, it's a good thing.
So you'll take it.
You know, it's funny when I told Rachel that I was talking to you, she goes, I know Terry
Darling.
I love his name.
So I want to talk a little bit about the radon inspection.
So what's that process look like?
And why is it important?
Yeah.
So really, I mean, that's good.
You get back to the why there.
So radon is a naturally occurring radioactive gas.
And it's everywhere.
It's everywhere all over the country.
You know, even outside, you're on the sidewalk, you're going to inhale some level of radon.
So when a seller says, oh, you're not going to find radon in our house, there's radon
in every house.
The reason we test is you want to know if it's at a level that is dangerous to your
lung health or not.
Sure.
Behind cigarette smoke, radon is the leading cause of lung cancer.
Really?
And, you know, I was in radon class two weeks ago.
I learned that if it weren't for gun deaths and cigarette deaths, radon would be the largest
killer of human beings in the United States.
Oh, my goodness.
So, you know, radon is important.
And that's not to scare everyone.
It's just to understand.
Yeah.
So about 25% of homes in New Jersey have high radon level, meaning above 4.0 picocuries
per liter, which is what the EPA says we should mitigate at.
OK.
How to make it easy to understand.
Four point 0 picocuries per liter.
If you're living in a house with that level of radon is about equivalent to smoking about
eight cigarettes a day.
OK.
Right.
So imagine, you know, if you're three year old, we're living in that house.
That's not what you want.
Right.
So you want to test for that and know the other things with radon to are, you know,
how you use the house.
We were just talking before I have a basement office in my house.
Right.
I heard it has great drywall.
The drywall guy was questionable for sure.
Don't do it yourself, everybody.
Anyway, sorry.
But there were days where that was my everyday office.
So I was in there, you know, hours and hours a day.
And a lot of people are like that in their basement.
So if you're in a space for a long time with exposure, it might be something that's, you
know, a bigger issue.
Or if you have previous lung issues.
Right.
If you have someone who had lung cancer, emphysema or maybe even long covid lives in the home,
you know, maybe you want to consider a system.
But it's one of the things that we usually test for with a real estate transaction.
So you know if the level is high or not.
The good news with radon is it's always I've never seen it where it couldn't be mitigated
to a level that's safe.
And mitigation usually isn't all that expensive.
Usually it's less than about four or five thousand dollars to mitigate a system.
So you're not a fan, a fan blowing it out of the house.
Pretty much.
That's it, Greg.
You have a little bit as far as plumbing goes, you're going to have almost looks like a sump
pump pit.
It's secured in the basement floor and the foundation floor.
And then the plumbing is attached to that with a fan.
Right.
And it's just going to dispel those gases up and out of the house.
So you know, radon is important.
It's good to know what your level is.
You know, it's safe or not.
But it should never be something that kills the deal on a house anyway, because it's like
everything else.
It can be fixed.
Yeah, it can be fixed and it occurs everywhere.
Yeah.
And it would accumulate in the basement because it's in the earth.
Right.
So really it's coming up through the ground and it's coming through cracks and holes in
the foundation floor, sump pump pits, things like that.
You know, that's why it's different everywhere.
The radon in my house is about one point two.
I tested every other year and I've tested about eight houses on my block.
I live in Union County.
They've all been between point eight and one point three or four.
There's one house.
It's four doors down from us.
It's three point nine.
Just the randomness of where they are in the earth.
That's it.
Radon doesn't know where your property line begins and ends.
It doesn't care.
Yeah.
So hey, Terry, what's the most common problem that you see?
Probably the most significant issues we see are with roofs and with structure, because
those are things that can be very expensive.
As far as the most common problem, it's probably just routine maintenance things like a loose
handrail or a missing handrail or something like that.
And we see a lot of electrical deficiencies because people can do some of their own electric.
They'll put in their own outlets, things like that.
You know, maybe electric hasn't been updated in a long time, so it's not up to code anymore.
I think electrical deficiencies are really common.
You find them on almost any home.
And again, they're not deal killers.
It's just understanding what the issue is and does it need remediated.
Correct.
Right?
That's it.
And understand what you're getting into.
Right.
So when you look at doing the overall inspection, what kind of time is associated with it?
You come in for 20 minutes or you're there for two days?
That's a really good question, especially for a first time buyer who doesn't really
have their expectations set right on time.
But time, we counsel people budget about an hour per thousand square feet of the home.
So a three thousand square foot home, you're looking at about three hours for the home
inspection.
Now, if you're going to add additional services, if we're going to do a sewer inspection for
you as well, that's going to take a little more time.
Right.
So you add time for that.
But about three hours for your typical home, two and a half to three hours.
And we always encourage people to be there for the inspection.
You can learn more that way.
It's also probably your biggest chance as a buyer or your first chance to spend significant
time in the house.
Right.
You go to that first showing or you go to an open house and it's like you're there for
15 minutes.
Right.
So you go on that first date and you're like, hey, let's get married after 15 minutes.
So at the home inspection, you're there a little longer, which is nice.
We always encourage people to be there, but we encourage our clients, you know, if you
can be there for the second half of the inspection, it's more important if you can be there for
the entire time.
That first part of the inspection, you can take that time and spend some time with the
house.
Right.
You've got a chance to maybe spend a little more time than you have.
You can think about where your furniture can go or what new furniture maybe you need.
Yeah.
We're not going to have all that much information to give you originally anyway, until we test
the components in the house.
You know, we can't just show up at a house, pull up and look at it and tell you everything
wrong with it.
We've got to test it.
We've got to go through the things.
So what we do is we start in the basement, really we start on the outside, but once we
go inside, we start in the basement where the major components are.
Right.
And then we work our way up throughout the house, inspecting it.
And then what we like to do is bring the client in with us and go over everything backwards.
Okay.
We'll start at the top of the house and we'll go back down through the house together, explain
everything, answer questions, talk about maintenance things.
We do it that way for a couple of reasons, Greg, and one is it does give the client a
chance to go through the house, right?
And spend some time on their own.
Sure.
But the other thing is it puts our eyes as inspectors on everything at least two times
that way.
And you're a lot less likely to miss something significant if you're looking at it a second
time.
So, uh, so we do like to do it that way.
And that way, you know, the client has a really stellar customer experience as well.
Yeah, you know, cause I'm thinking, I think three hours as someone that has a, I have
a relatively short attention span.
I like what you said about, you know, you're spending some time to get to know the house.
I'm thinking like you do your job for a little bit, getting ideas to getting familiar with
the house.
So then you can come back and explain it to me.
Right?
Yeah.
And I'm not going to be necessarily attached to your hip the whole time, even though I
can see some people would be.
Some people would be and some people are, but the inspection usually is more efficient and
it's also more thorough.
Right.
So imagine, like, imagine you go to your mechanic and you give them the keys and they put the
car up on the lift and you're asking him questions all the time and he forgets something because
he's trying to give you his focus to you while he's doing his job too.
Yeah.
Great point.
You know, that's why when we have a client who wants to be with us the whole time, especially
when we're in the electrical panel, I always tell them, listen, this is the most dangerous
part of my job.
And it's the part where I need to be most focused.
So I know this is safe for you.
So I'm going to need a few minutes here.
Sure.
So if it's like a parrot on your shoulder, usually it's dad.
It's usually not the client.
Right.
And I understand I'm a dad too.
But we want to give the most thorough job we can.
And sometimes that means really being focused on the job at hand and then teaching back
our findings.
And that's usually usually the best way.
No, that makes that makes a ton of sense.
And what's the worst thing that you've ever seen?
Probably the hoarding situations are some of the worst because, you know, there's there's
like there's significant mental illness there too.
It causes things like that.
Those are some of the worst.
You really can't inspect the house that's in that current condition.
Like, how could you possibly do it?
It's difficult.
And so I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, part of for for our real estate
agents in our on the listing side, part of having a positive and quality inspection experience
is setting the expectation for the occupant of the house, which is often the seller, but
sometimes it's not.
And usually the hoarding issues, it's often with tenants.
But you can only inspect what you could see and touch.
Right.
You know, and if you can't get to certain things, then you can't be as thorough as you
would like to be.
So, you know, setting those expectations and saying, you know, have the house prepared
for inspection, making sure that the vehicles are off the driveway so the oil tank sweep
guy can, you know, can scan the whole property, making sure you can get to that electric panel
because you don't have things up in front of it.
And, you know, those things make an inspection more thorough.
A more thorough inspection makes for a more confident buyer.
Confident buyers close.
Right.
It's a great way to put it.
Definitely.
Is there any such thing as a perfect house?
I haven't seen it yet.
Right.
I've seen a lot of beautiful homes, a lot of new construction.
It's terrific.
You almost always find something.
But even if you don't find a defect, talking that buyer through what your life experience
is going to be like and what does this house need from you to keep it as healthy and safe
as it is today?
Even if you don't find significant defects, we always try to deliver value for people.
And I think that's one thing we do.
You know, when you're there in the summertime, a house is maybe going to perform a little
differently than it's going to perform in February unless it's 70 degrees in February
like it's been this year.
But you know, teaching people is a big part of this job.
We talked about different heating systems before.
A lot of times clients are leaving, say, the city or Hudson County.
They're leaving condo life.
They're not a first time home owner per se, but they're a first time detached homeowner.
Yeah.
And it's different.
Huge difference.
Right.
And they're like all these things I didn't know.
So there's always things to learn.
Even with that sort of perfect house, I think there are valuable things to the inspection.
That's a great perspective on it.
And it's kind of just reinforcing again the coaching that's associated with it.
Right.
It's half the inspection.
Understanding the house that you're buying, what you're getting into.
It is.
Right.
And one of the things that we also stress with clients is this is an inspection, but
this is not a we don't look at it as a transaction.
We look at it as the beginning of a relationship.
So if you need us after you get the report, after you close on the loan, after the seasons
change, you know, you could always reach out to us.
We're not a home inspection firm that doesn't answer the phone.
We want to hear from our past clients with the things that they need.
We want to make sure that we're there for them.
We're going to trade up to that next house or buy that vacation home or whatever it is.
And that means this is a relationship that we want to continue going forward.
What are your feelings on a home warranty?
Buying one from a warranty company for everything.
You need to be careful.
They don't all of them cover quite as much as you might think.
Right.
And that's why I like the worry free warranty through the service provider, because you
can choose which appliances you're going to cover.
So for instance, if you have a home buyer who's buying a home that's 15 years old, relatively
young, right.
But the appliances are all of them getting near the end of their expected life.
Sure.
But, you know, the seller is going to say, hey, listen, they tested all of these things
during the inspection.
Everything worked.
I'm not going to replace it for you.
And quite frankly, like I wouldn't replace it if I lived in the house either.
Right.
That worry free warranty can give you a bit of peace of mind to say, all right, if the
furnace goes out next year, you know, for a few dollars.
You can limit your exposure on it.
Exactly.
Pay the deductible and they fix it or replace it, whatever it is.
That's it.
And you have to expect that all of these appliances in the house aren't going to last for the
next 10 or 15 years.
Some of them are going to go out because of their age.
So it really kind of covers you there.
And you know, that's that's a big thing for people to understand, too, especially if you're
coming from condo life or your first time home buyer.
You have to be prepared, excuse me, prepared to invest in your house.
They just don't run.
That's right.
No different than getting your oil change, have your car run for a long period of time.
Like houses cost money and there's maintenance and they need care just like children.
Like they need you to invest in them.
You're right.
They do.
I like that.
Just like children.
Kids do need that.
God love them.
What do you have for right?
I have four.
Yeah.
So we're 21, 21, 19, 16 and 14.
OK.
How many kids you have, Terry?
I have two boys.
Go ahead.
14 year old girl and 11 year old boy.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Aren't they great?
They're terrific.
But they do need a lot.
They need time.
They need care.
Just like they just they need money.
They need love.
They need a lot of.
So I'm going to go back to my experience when I purchased my first home and I had all these
things blow up on the house after I bought it.
What kind of liability does a home inspector have?
Yeah.
So a home inspector, you know, just like any professional who's in the home, does have
liability.
And that's why from a real estate perspective, you always have an agent with you at the inspection.
And we also try to limit the number of people on the inspection.
Because if you have if you have a if you have a family reunion at the home inspection, there's
always people walking around, testing things, trying things.
And we've had issues with that.
Like I had a couple of things that were broken by other people on home inspections.
So really?
Yeah.
And but and we were responsible while we're in the building.
I'm responsible for the building.
So there's that.
But also we have liability, of course, after the fact for things we miss.
And that's why we talk about dad.
We don't encourage clients to typically bring dad.
I know I'm a dad.
You always want to take care of your kids.
And I get that.
But we want to focus on our clients during the inspection and giving them information.
And some one of the things we often say is dad hunts for mice.
Home inspectors hunt for elephants.
And the elephants are the things that could potentially cost you a lot of money or kill
you.
Right.
And so we want to focus on those things.
It doesn't mean we won't find the mice along the way.
But we have a different perspective on things.
And sometimes it can be distracting to have too many people there.
No, that's a good point, because it's not emotional either.
Like anytime you have when you're buying houses, emotional process, then you put the parents
in there.
That's even more emotional.
You make sure everything's perfect for my kids, which you can both relate to.
But you're doing it from a professional paradigm.
And I love that you're hunting for elephants, not for mice.
Not that you don't point all that out, but you really got to look at the things that
are dangerous or could be a potential money sucker down the line.
Right.
So Terry, you had mentioned that you had to go back and do some radon training.
Is that regular?
Is it continuing education associated with what you do?
Yes, absolutely.
So the the radon training from last week is something we do on an annual basis.
And it's part of our overall continuing ed that's required.
As a home inspector, you're required to complete 40 hours of continuing education every cycle.
So it's every two years.
So it kind of feels like I'm in school every week.
And you know, on this job, they tell you, you finish your schooling and then you really
start to learn when you start to work.
And that's true.
But with building, things change all the time, too.
You know, building code change, practices change.
So we're constantly learning new things.
And you know, I get another question has popped into my head was, I know, you know everything.
But if there's something you were gray on, what kind of resource would you go to to get
the answer?
Yeah.
So there are and there are certain areas where I'm looking to improve my expertise this year.
And our inspectors are the same way we've got.
We really encourage the inspectors to look at the different things where they want to
improve as an expert.
So we're members of the American Society of Home Inspectors.
And through that, they offer specific certifications and classes where you can become an expert
on decking, per se, or really any of the components of the home.
So yeah, those are some of the ways you go from general practitioner to surgeon and in
particular areas.
Yeah, there you go.
That's well put, Greg.
Yeah.
What's different about your company versus other companies?
Well, one of the things is we do look at it like this is a relationship, not a transaction.
And we try to build what is a customer service experience.
We look at it like this is not a home inspection company.
This is a real estate services company.
How do we do that?
A couple of different ways.
We try to give the client the top notch experience from start to finish.
So when they call or click to book their home inspection, from booking to availability to
inspection process, report delivery, and everything along the way.
One of the things we do is we try to build a company that can serve all your needs in
one place.
So you may need multiple inspections beyond the home inspection, you may need sewer scope
inspection, oil tank sweep, radon testing, all of those kind of things too.
So we try to make it convenient for the client and for the real estate agent so you don't
have multiple inspectors coming in to schedule over multiple dates.
And you can book everything with us with just one call or click.
That's great.
Just a one stop shop.
Yeah.
A high level of concierge service to deal with everybody.
That's it.
Yeah.
Could you give us a couple of tips?
Whether it's the consumer or if it's real estate agents, what are some tips about home
inspection?
What should people be looking out for?
So a couple of tips for the inspection for inspection day is make sure the house is ready.
Make sure it's ready for inspection.
It's better if the seller can vacate for the inspection time usually.
Not that sellers can't be helpful too.
Sometimes they can point out things that are hidden that make it go faster.
But overall, it's better not to have the seller on site.
There's nothing wrong with that, Terry.
Go ahead.
You know what's funny?
Sometimes I had a seller once, he kept turning the heat off and I'm like, I got to test the
heat.
But he kept turning it off and I was chasing him around the whole house.
So some of that.
Make sure the vehicles are off the site so the oil tank sweep can cover the entire property.
Make sure animals are off the site.
Dogs can be a little distracting to home inspectors sometimes.
Whether there is that and then also clutter.
You want to be able to reach everything.
A home inspection is what's visible and accessible.
And so if you can't reach the electric panel, you're not going to be able to get to it.
Obviously, those are things you want to learn.
So making sure the house is ready for inspection is definitely one thing.
And then setting the buyer expectation is really important.
That's some of the things we talked about today.
How long is it going to take?
If I can't be there at the beginning, does it really matter?
Is that okay?
Are you going to be there to answer my questions later?
Can we have a face time?
During the pandemic, we had buyers that didn't show up to inspection a lot of times.
And so we'd face time with them during the inspection.
So those things are all really important.
How to conduct a radon test.
What are the conditions of the house for radon?
So those are some of the things we always counsel with people too.
And then clients often want to know, should I buy the house?
That's a question for your real estate professional, not something that the home inspector is going
to answer for you.
And why is that?
Well, there's so many factors when you buy a house.
How much are you putting down?
What's your interest rate?
What's driving you to buy this house as opposed to a house down the block?
What are you paying?
These are all things.
You could buy any house.
That's way too big of a conversation.
Absolutely.
And so we counsel all of our inspectors.
You're going to be asked that question by clients.
You get asked that all the time.
A lot.
It's often.
But you have to know how to handle it.
And that's a question we don't really answer.
They have a real estate professional.
Our job is to give them information and help them have a level of confidence in the house
or in the things that need to be repaired in the house.
And then they're going to make those decisions based on all the information that they have
that we don't.
Right.
Makes sense, Terry.
Now, if someone needed a home inspection in their consumer or a real estate agent needed
to call you to talk about the home inspection process, what's the best way to reach out
to you, Terry?
So a couple of different ways.
One is our office line.
We've got staff available seven days a week.
And that number is 908-325-3600.
And then you can always follow us on Instagram at home safe inspectors and Jay.
And you can order your inspection any time at home safe inspectors dot com.
Oh, that's great.
So you go right there.
Home safe inspectors dot com.
And if someone went to that site, they'd be able to reach out to you or someone on the
team as well.
Yeah, sure.
You can contact there's contact, you know, availability through that site.
Great.
You can also see our availability.
So if you're looking for an inspection on a certain day, you can go in and see when
we've got availability, if it's on the day you need and book us.
That'd be handy for a real estate agent trying to work in conjunction with with the buyer.
Correct.
If you have a buyer who only has one day off a week or they're flying in to see a property,
you know, and they only have one day.
Sure.
Check it out and see what our availability is.
And, you know, we can line it up.
That's great, Terry.
It's a pleasure having you on the show today.
Thanks, Greg.
Yeah, it sure was.
It was a great conversation.
Great.
Look forward to doing that inspection with you in the future.
Me too.
Coming down the pipe.
Pay attention.
And thank you, everyone, for listening to us today.
Greg Wareham with your mortgage process, along with Terry Darling.
Look forward to catching up with you next week.
Thank you for tuning in to this week's edition of Your Mortgage Process, hosted by Greg Wareham,
produced by Greg Wareham and Nick Pavese at The Social Rift and executively produced by
The Social Rift.
Thank you again for tuning in and we look forward to catching up with you next week.