Hey there everybody Scott Durfey here with another podcast of Redeemed Through His Blood
as always joined by David Durfey.
What's up Dave?
Fired up to be here Scott.
This is awesome.
This is what we're going to talk about today is one of my, maybe I say this every week,
and if I do it's true.
It's one of my favorite topics that we're going to be talking about today.
We had a great podcast that will come out, the one right before this last week's podcast.
Talked about twin bullies.
We started Fear and Pride.
We started talking a little bit about repentance Dave, and I think that's where we're going
to kind of...
Well Fear and Pride Scott are the, you know, Elder Anderson chose to call those the twin
bullies.
Twin bullies.
I used to call them the roadblocks to repentance, but that's what those two things, I mean of
all the reasons, all the excuses people give for not repenting, those two are by far the
major, the major two that are kind of the real source of our excuses and reasons not
to repent is fear.
An irrational fear really.
Fear sometimes I think prompted from evil sources.
Yeah.
Satan himself I think controls and manipulates us through fear and pride, which is also how
Satan controls us.
I think too, you know, it's interesting how those two things will show up in disguise
of other emotions and other experiences in our lives, right?
So for example, you know, I'm on the phone this morning, early this morning, and it was
almost like I was having a mirror experience because I had this experience with my sponsor,
you know, 10 or 12, maybe 15 years ago when I was dealing with this.
But I, one of the guys that I sponsor and Alcoholics Anonymous called me this morning,
and he's just dealing with some real anger.
This is a great man too.
He's got a lot of years sober.
He's has a beautiful family.
He's silled in the temple.
He's just a great, great man.
Not that all those things are, you know, what qualifies you to be a great man, but he does
have those things in addition to be a great man.
And he's dealing with these anger issues that are just so heavy.
And it was like I had that same thought come to my head that my sponsor told me, he says,
you're not angry.
You know, we got some fear that we need to deal with here.
And man, he was really embracing of that idea.
He's going to do a fourth and a fifth step on it, which means he's going to write it
out and see, you know, where those things come up and assume his own responsibility towards
him.
And then we then we can start healing him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ because
we recognize that, hey, anger can sometimes be fear and other things can come up as pride
and said, you know, those things can really disguise themselves sometimes almost all the
time.
Scott, when I went through my experience and experimented, studied fear in the scriptures,
looked up every scripture and did all of that.
I've told that story before, but but I noticed that almost all of my anger was the result
of my of my fear.
And I believe that fear and pride actually are so closely knitted together.
Yep.
I mean, they are kind of linked in almost every case because both of them are the result
of insecurities.
Right.
And I think that's a lack of faith and insecurities.
Pride really is the that trying to cover up for something that we think we are that we
know we're not.
And fear is a result of really not not having that perfect brightness of hope and assurance
and confidence in God that things are going to work out that there's a that there's a
purpose and that knowing who we are.
So I don't know, I hope our listeners will you read me an email just a little while ago
about a response we got from a listener who identity is everything.
You know, once they know that who they are and that they they are not only God's son
or daughter, but that they're also a son or daughter of the covenant.
They belong to Jesus Christ and the most important purpose of this life is to have a relationship
with deity and, you know, it makes all the difference.
So as we as we go further into repentance, and this is I think I referred last time to
this as being the heart of the course.
You know, this I saw.
I saw a one of the leaders of church education worldwide.
He's over.
He's over the worldwide program of church education.
One of the one of the administrators and he gave me a hug.
We're close friends.
I I love him very much and we're close and have been for several years and he saw me over
at the open house of the Saratoga Springs Temple and he said to me whispered in my ear,
you'll be happy to know that the course that you designed is the most popular course worldwide
Institute.
And that made me, you know, made me really just feel humble and grateful and happy that
so many are enjoying the blessings of Elder Anderson's book, which is the student manual
of that course.
And that so many are feeling a need to develop a stronger closer relationship with Deity,
Jesus Christ as their savior and redeemer and trying to repent.
So as we continue on this course, I think this the next few weeks are kind of the heart
of the course.
And we've talked about the twin bullies of repentance, fear and pride.
We introduced a little bit what repentance is not.
I want to say something before we we get much further into this about what the Lord thinks
about repentance.
God, that seems to be maybe the starting point and the most important point.
It's it's it came to my attention several years ago that in the book of the Gospel of
Matthew that when Jesus comes out of the 40 days in the wilderness, which is all recorded,
in Matthew chapter four, that when he comes out of that experience, Scott, the first thing
as he begins his mortal, divine mission, the first word out of his mouth recorded in Matthew
is the word repent.
The first thing that Jesus teaches what he begins his ministry is repent.
I think that's in verse 17, Matthew four verse 17.
Maybe we should turn turn there and and read it and share it with our listeners and and
maybe read a verse before to kind of set it up.
But I just think that's extremely significant.
And I don't think that Matthew did that by just coincidence.
I think Matthew as an apostle knew that that was the central message of Jesus Christ and
his ministry and the central message, Scott, as we've learned from President Nelson of
all the apostles and prophets, right, is to declare repentance in the name of the Lord
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, that's there.
That's I think they would tell you that's the heart of their ministry.
Yeah.
Anyway, so you want to read that?
Yeah, yeah, let's let's start with verse 16.
The people so the people this is talking about is right after he comes out of the 40 days
in the wilderness.
And it says by the way, the sea beyond Jordan, Galilee, the Gentiles.
And so they're kind of in that area.
And then in 16, so Matthew 416, the people which sat in darkness saw great light.
And to them which sat in the region and the shadow of death, light is sprung up.
Now this is 17.
And and from that time, Jesus began to preach and say, repent for the kingdom of heaven is
at hand.
First word, right?
Yeah.
And right after that in 18, put that in quotes.
He did.
Yeah, those are his words.
Exactly.
Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
And then at 18, this is where he begins in Jesus walking by the sea of Galilee.
He saw two brothers in Simon called Peter and Andrew his brother casting a net and and
we know how that goes.
You know, he says, says, follow me and I will make you fishers of men.
And so he declares repentance.
And then he begins to build those special witnesses of his name to kind of help carry
that out.
I just don't think it's possible to overstate how important that verse is that the first
word out of his mouth and his mortal ministry is repent.
Yeah.
Anyway, Scott and the doctrine.
Okay, so I looked up every word or every scripture with the word repent and repentance
in it several years ago in the book of Mormon.
I don't know the exact number I counted them all and it's well over 300.
It's almost 400 times in the book of Mormon alone and just the book of Mormon.
I mean, the book of Mormon, I think the reason the book of Mormon is is so powerful, Scott,
is because of the message of repentance that's contained in there.
All the examples and all the Christ centered sermons that lead individuals to repent and
change in the book of Mormon.
Repentance is in the Old Testament, in the New Testament, and all the standard works,
but not hundreds of times like it is in the book of Mormon.
The book of Mormon is the book of repentance.
And I know it had that effect on me.
I mean, reading the book of Mormon on my mission really for the first time, going through it
carefully and getting up really early and then reading that, trying to work out my salvation
on my mission, not feeling that I was forgiven of my own sins.
And I know the effect it had on me personally and so many others who I've seen throughout
my life.
It humbles us.
It teaches us the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
It just covers all of the bases of repentance, Scott, that we need in order to really feel
forgiven, to be able to forgive ourselves and to rely in great faith upon our Savior.
So Dr. Incovenants, in the first, as some of the first sections of the Dr. Incovenants,
got, the Lord declares that one thing that's more important than them all, to declare nothing
but repentance under this generation.
That's significant.
Can you believe that he said that?
Declare nothing but repentance.
That's in the Dr. Incovenants section 6, verse 9, section 11, verse 9, section 19.
And anyway, maybe just read one of those in Dr. Incovenants section 6, verse 9, I think.
Okay, so section 6, verse 9, and so I'm going to do 8 and 9 just to keep it in context.
Very, very, very, very, I say unto you, even as you desire of me, so it shall be unto you,
and if you desire, you shall be means of doing much good in this generation.
And then he tells them how that can come about.
Say nothing but repentance under this generation.
Keep my commandments and assist to bring forth my work according to my commandments, and
you shall be blessed.
Say nothing but repentance.
And he repeats that four times.
He repeats that four times in the Dr. Incovenants, Scott.
That's significant.
That gets my attention.
And then to the Whitmer brothers, right, and this is section 15, verse 6, and section 16,
verse 6, and the Lord repeats, these revelations are like word perfect except the two names
that are in the first verse.
These are the Whitmer brothers.
And let's read what 15 verse 6 says in section 16, verse 6 says the same thing.
So the Lord again repeats himself, which is, I think, in the mouth of witnesses, two or
more, right?
Yeah.
All right, here we go.
And verse section 15 of the Dr. Incovenants, verse 6, and now behold, I say unto you, that
the thing which will be of the most worth unto you will be to declare repentance unto
this people, that you may bring souls unto me, that you may rest with them in the kingdom
of my Father.
So what's the thing of most worth?
Repentance.
Wow, that's, can you believe that?
There's so many things of great worth that we should be teaching, preaching, but it's
repentance.
Now, as we jump into this, Scott, I have in my studies of the principle of repentance.
I hate to think of it in terms of steps.
I like to think of it more as a process, and I think there are kind of four parts of a
process, and I even hate to use the word for because then people immediately try to put
it in a checklist or steps.
But I want to, as we go into this now in the next several weeks, I want to talk about which
we have already done to some degree, the foundations of repentance, the foundations of repentance,
the conditions of repentance, the manifest, sorry, the actions of repentance, and then
the manifestations of our repentance.
So that's foundations, conditions, the actions, and manifestations of repentance.
And we'll talk about the first part today, which is the foundations of repentance, and
much of this has already been covered in this course and this podcast, because one of those
foundations, or foundations, sorry, one of those foundations is to doctrinally understand
the plan of redemption and where we fit in that plan.
Okay?
And we've talked a lot about identity.
We've talked a lot about that plan of redemption, that perfect plan of happiness.
And then faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and faith in His name, and to understand and have
faith in His atoning sacrifice, to really understand the atonement of Jesus Christ God seems to
me to be a foundation upon which one must build their repentance.
Next is to really understand what repentance is, and maybe especially what it's not.
We started talking about that last time, we'll talk more about that today.
And then one of the foundations of repentance, and I will never forget Elder Anderson's
our meeting when we spoke about this, and it was very touching and too personal for
me to repeat to really anybody.
But he shared some very personal experiences about individuals in his family and who he
loves and he wanted to make sure that in the book that we covered the importance of honesty.
Being true to oneself, especially.
Being honest with oneself, seeing things as they really are, and not trying to hide our
sins.
That's a foundation of repentance.
And I just really think that's uncompromising.
That's what he calls it.
Uncompromising honesty.
So anyway, those are I think what make up the foundations of repentance.
And we've talked again about some of those, but let's finish talking about what repentance
is nuts, Scott.
Before we do that, David, is it okay if we, and there's a reason I'm about to ask this.
You know, a lot of times I think when we approach this topic of repentance, there just can be,
and it's entirely dependent upon where I am in my spiritual process or my spiritual progress.
If I'm doing great spiritually, then I may not have this experience.
But if I'm not, you know, there may be a time, there may be times when the word repentance
gets brought up and some of us think, oh my gosh, here we are going to display all my
wrongs, going to take a look at everything that's wrong with me.
And that can be sometimes that can be, I don't know, off-putting is probably not the right
word.
But it can be that we can find some, maybe some reluctance to kind of approach repentance
because of the fear or maybe even the pride in getting back to those two twin bullies,
right, that we may have about our misunderstanding of what it means when we say repent.
Well, when we understand what it's not.
That'll help us, right?
That will answer that question and help us overcome that problem.
Because we can start with there.
We don't, there's no, there's no necessarily starting point here.
Repentance is not suffering.
Let's just get that out of the way right now.
Repentance is not suffering.
There may be some suffering in the process of repentance, but that's not because of
repentance.
That's because of the consequences of the choices that we made.
That's because of the sin.
Exactly.
But, but, but my, my, I think what I'm kind of driving out here is that repentance, you
know, when we talk about repentance, we're not talking about just sin.
We're talking about any, and I guess, I guess it's kind of a semantics here because anything
that drives us away or separates us from the spirit of our Heavenly Father, I guess
we could call that sin.
Sure.
You know, and, but, but, but, you know, that can, that's not just, you know, immorality.
That's not just being dishonest.
That's not great point.
That can also be anything, for example, and it's not a sin to fill this way.
Don't misunderstand me.
But if people have anxiety or depressive disorders, things of those natures, you know, when we
talk, when we use the word repent, we're really just talking about turning away from things
that separate us from the spirit and turning and facing and embracing those things that
draw me to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through the spirit.
All true.
When we talk about repentance, Scott, it's, it's really about how can we get the powers
there you go and the blessings of Jesus Christ through His Atonement into our life, including
the enabling power to help us even keep the commandments.
So there's almost a whole chapter in Elder Anderson's book on this that, that repentance
is not to just cover sins of commission, but sins of omission.
And every day, Scott, we commit those sins.
Every day we omit or we just don't get around to or we fail to do something we should have
done.
Repentance is not just covering the things, all the shall nots, commandments that we break.
That's what I'm talking about right there.
That's right.
Repentance is to strengthen us and enable us, enable us and compensate us.
All of that.
So repentance, I guess we're defining what it is now.
Repentance is the process of getting all of the powers and blessings of the Lord Jesus
Christ through His Atoning Blood into our life.
That's right.
You can't ever think of that about that as being suffering.
No, that's an invitation to joy.
That's an invitation to peace, freedom.
I mean, think of the freedom that comes to us when those things leave our lives.
That's one of the great blessings that I get to see among recovering alcoholics and addicts
is the freedom that comes as we turn and turn away from all that's wrong in our lives and
turn towards Him who is everything right in our lives.
There is not one negative aspect of any degree in the process of repentance.
It is completely 100% positive.
And it's so important we understand that because that hasn't necessarily been everybody's
experience or maybe not even their experience, but just what they have come to believe because
of what they think, what we think we've been taught.
I don't think we've ever been led astray on this.
I just don't think that we've understood the things that have been intended to be taught
to us about this.
Well, you know, I don't want to give a whole history of why I think we have in the past
kind of had a culture of believing, kind of throwing up our hands in front of our face
and when seeing when we hear the word repent.
Yeah.
I don't want to there is kind of a history there and I think it has been taught perhaps
by some in the church to be somewhat of a negative.
But I just I just love President Nelson who is trying to correct those false traditions
and misunderstandings.
Most of them have been misunderstandings really.
But you know, he just has come out and said, which the scriptures teach that repentance
is a positive, not a negative.
In fact, the scholars just turned doctrine comes section 19 and and let's start with
verse four here.
Since we're we're on this and read verse four.
This is a revelation given through Joseph Smith, the Martin Harris and listen what he
says in verse four and surely every man must repent or suffer for I God am endless.
So you would say listening to that scripture that repentance and suffering are what?
Antonyms.
Absolute opposite.
That's right.
They're absolute opposite.
They do not mean the same thing.
You could choose to repent or suffer, suffer.
They're not this they're just complete opposite and our suffering comes from so many different
places.
You know, much of it may be most of it sin, but there's a lot of suffering that we wouldn't
necessarily put in quotation marks.
I'm doing quotation marks here as sin, even though, you know, we would perhaps define
anything that separates us from the spirit of our Heavenly Father as sin.
We don't necessarily see it that way sometimes.
But when we when we read that, you know, we must repent or suffer.
So anything that's causing a suffering, if we will just turn to him who descended below
all things and suffered that he might know how to sucker us, then we know that repentance
is just a turning away from anything that's making us suffer.
Yeah, right.
We're absolutely.
Repentance is not suffering.
Now I know it's been stated in the church, even even by one of my favorite prophets.
I don't you shouldn't have a favorite prophet, but he certainly one of my favorites.
They're all my favorites, I guess, right?
Because President Kimball in the miracle of forgiveness, who said, if you haven't suffered,
you haven't repented in essence.
And so many in the church and even bishops and others thought, OK, so we got to make
people suffer when they repent.
That's not what he said.
What he said is if you haven't suffered.
Well, hey, Scott, we have all suffered because of our sins.
A broken heart is not easy to go through.
That's right.
And that's an essential part of repentance, but that's not caused by repentance.
It's that's caused by the sin, the suffering.
Yeah, the suffering.
I think that we all to some degree suffer when we think of the suffering that we've
caused Christ.
That's not easy to go through, right?
But it's because of our sins and because of the human nature in all of us that Jesus
suffered for, and that's not easy for us to accept or realize.
But that repentance doesn't cause that.
Repentance is the process of using that in order to obtain the beauty and peace and joy
that comes in the wake of repentance.
So if we stick to section 19, you know, and this is, I think, been so misunderstood by
the church, by members of the church individually, some collectively.
Let's start in verse 13.
Wherefore I command you to repent and keep the commandments which you have received by
the hand of my servant, Joseph Smith, Jr. in my name.
So these commandments, these covenants, these things that have been restored.
And in 14, it is by my almighty power that you have received them.
Where I command you to repent, repent lest I smite you with a rod, by the rod of my
mouth and by my wrath and by my anger and your sufferings be sore.
How sore you know not, how exquisite you not, know not.
Yea, how hard to bear you know not.
For behold, I God have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they
would repent, but if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I, which suffering
caused myself, even God, the greatest of all to tremble because of pain and to bleed at
every pore and to suffer both body and spirit and would that I might not drink the bitter
cup and shrink.
So Scott, this, that by the way, that precious revelation right there, I think about John
Taylor what he wrote in his tribute to Joseph Smith and the patriarch Hiram Smith when they
were both martyred.
And the reason he says they were, well he doesn't give necessarily a reason, but he
says that the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants cost the best blood of the 19th
century.
And that passage right there that you read is worth the blood of two prophets, Joseph
and Hiram Smith.
I just, I just think that's, I mean that's like a thousand lights should go on for us,
the Lord crying out about what repentance is and how he suffered, that we might not
have to suffer.
But so many have taken that passage to mean that if we don't suffer, that we don't repent.
So read verse, is it 15 again?
Read verse 15 again.
Therefore, I command you to repent, repent lest I smite you with my wrath and by my anger
and your suffering be sore.
How sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, how hard to bear you know not.
And then 16.
For behold, I God have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they
would repent.
And then 17, but if they would not repent, they must suffer even.
Yes, I am.
So many have kind of I think misunderstood that, that if we don't repent that we're going
to suffer like Jesus suffered.
Well I, I just don't believe that's what the Lord is teaching there.
We will suffer, but our suffering won't be anything.
I mean we'll suffer not for our sins, Scott.
But because of them.
Because exactly Jesus Christ paid for all of the sins of all the world.
And we don't have time in this podcast to go through every verse where he says that.
I was crucified for all the sins of all the world.
And he repeats that over and over again.
We believe Jesus Christ suffered for all sin, whether repented of or not.
Now if you do, if you choose not to repent, you'll suffer, but not for the sin.
And it doesn't say that in there, but we will suffer because of it.
And I just want to read one paragraph from Elder Anderson's book.
He writes.
What page, what page are you on in the book?
We do have a lot of listeners that have the book.
I know all the kids that come to our institute class have this.
Well I think, I think these are, these, this is a precious paragraph in the, in the few
paragraphs that follow it.
We have no ability to pay for our own sins.
Repentance is exactly the opposite of punishment.
Repentance relieves the guilt and pain and suffering caused by sin.
Jesus Christ paid for all the sins of the world.
Our repentance is not paid for one ounce of the sins we have committed.
I think I had written when we were working on this and I was kind of quoting brother
Matthews, Robert J. Matthews, because he had told me, David, we can't pay back for one
tenth of one percent of any sin we've ever committed.
But Elder Anderson says we can't pay for one ounce of any sin we've committed.
The atonement of Jesus Christ fulfilled all the demands of justice perfectly, exactly.
Our attention must be on him and our appreciation for his suffering, not to be self martyrs,
cutting ourselves, I'm not quoting him that right now, but we should focus on his suffering.
Scott, we shouldn't be martyr, self martyrs and think that we're going to suffer and that,
that's repentance.
Then he goes on.
If we worry whether we have paid back or suffered enough for our sins, such a great sentence.
If we worry whether we have paid back or suffered enough for our own sins, it will impede, and
I think in some cases even shut down, our ability to repent and feel forgiven, bringing
painful discouragement with it.
Then in the next paragraph he says, a person cannot suffer for his sins, but he will suffer
because of his sins.
There is always a punishment in sinning, but the punishment, the suffering and the pain
are caused by the sin, not by the repentance, when someone has cancer and surgery is required,
it is not the surgery or the doctor that is causing the suffering, it's the cancer.
The surgery is temporarily difficult, but the cancer is the villain, not the surgery.
Sin causes the suffering, not the repentance.
Repentance is not the punishment, it's not the penalty, it's not the payment, it's not
the suffering or the pain caused by sin.
It's none of that.
Repentance is not that.
I think that's really critical because once someone really understands that, then they
can begin to think what repentance is.
The application of the power of Jesus Christ in our lives.
Because Jesus has already suffered it, I don't have to.
That completely motivates one to repent.
Darrell Bock Yeah, and it removes one of the big
barriers.
We did talk about fear and pride, being twin bullies.
Not understanding what repentance really is and how it really works and to have the
misunderstanding, the suffering comes to us as a part or because of the suffering of Christ
and is part of our repentance.
To remove that barrier really frees us and it actually extends a warm welcoming invitation
when he says come unto me.
We just got done reading part of section 19.
I'm going to go down here to verse 23 of section 19 in the Doctrine and Covenants.
This is really kind of the promise or the release, the relief, the freedom that we get
if we do begin to enter into this repentant process.
He says in 23, learn of me and listen to my words.
Walk in the makeness of my spirit and here's the promise and you shall have peace in me.
Darrell Bock That's the theme for the church history
tour.
I'm just getting ready to embark upon.
Is that very verse, it's one of my favorite verses.
Learn of me and you shall have peace in me.
Learn of me invites us to learn of the price that he paid so that we don't have to pay.
Darrell Bock And like we talked about last week when
we say, when he says come to me, he's inviting us to come to the Garden of Gethsemane and
to the cross where he's suffered, where we worship him, the suffering Christ.
Christ suffered for, and maybe we should say here, we'll talk more about this later, but
when we talk about the, I think one of the actions of our repentance or manifestations
to our repentance is the ability, the gift to be able to forgive others.
But I don't think you can even do that on your own without the blood, atonement, sacrifice
of Jesus Christ in our life.
I mean Jesus Christ and his suffering and what he did in Gethsemane and again on the
cross where it was even worse as he suffered for our sins, not only helps us Scott to be
forgiven, work out our repentance and be forgiven, it gives us the power to forgive.
If we really understand that and Elder Holland has done a beautiful job teaching that before.
So repentance is not suffering, punishment, penalty, payment, pain of sin.
It's the release, the joy, the healing, the cleansing, it's all of that.
Another thing that repentance is not, it's not a checklist.
I can't believe how many times when I was growing up and I think people are still teaching
it.
Well I just Googled it and it still popped up, five steps to repentance right here.
So I, and most of them, so many of them put them in Rs, right?
The five Rs, the six Rs, the seven Rs, the eight Rs.
So many Rs of repentance, right?
And I'm so sad that I tried to do that myself and I couldn't figure out why I was not feeling
forgiven even though I had checked everything off my list.
You know I had gone through and pretty much done my own checklist and I couldn't figure
out after I had checked them all off.
Why wasn't I feeling forgiven, Scott?
Because it's not a checklist, repentance is a condition of the heart.
It's a, we'll talk more about the conditions of repentance a little later, but I love though
in our discussion Elder Anderson was so sweet and inspired that he told me, you know David,
some people work better when they have a checklist.
Some people they need a checklist and he understood and he put in the book how they can have a
checklist if they need one, but here's the key.
The checklist is focused in Christ, not in our actions, but how can I have a checklist
that focus my efforts in Jesus Christ?
And so I love how he did that and he put down recognize, so here's a checklist if you need
a checklist.
Recognize what I have done wrong in offending Jesus Christ.
Feel remorse that my actions have offended God and caused Jesus Christ to suffer.
Resolve to change my behavior realizing that my own willpower is not enough and that without
the help of Jesus Christ I am powerless to repent.
Notice how all of these are focused and centered in Christ.
Reform, there's the fourth R, reform, so we've got recognize remorse, resolve, reform, change,
repent, appealing for the grace of Jesus Christ, his mercy, his power to help me never repeat
the offense.
And the fifth R in his list is make restitution to those I have hurt and offended.
It's importantly the Savior.
We'll talk all about a whole podcast maybe on restitution and what it means.
Who suffered the pain of all in this way he says I am repenting.
Well here's the problem with those who try to have a checklist, Scott.
Here's the problem and this is also in the book.
A most egregious example of a checklist repentance was told by Elder David A. Bednar.
He said when I was president of BYU Idaho, he actually said this Scott in a mission president
seminar.
I don't know if that footnotes in the book but when I was a president of BYU Idaho I
spoke with a bishop and he shared this experience.
He had received a confession from a young person who said I was involved in immorality
Friday night.
You are the last thing on my list.
Now that I have confessed to you, I feel great.
Then Elder Bednar explained to all the mission presidents.
That's not repentance.
It cannot really be repentance unless it involves the redeemer.
Even if a person confesses, this was a confession with no regard for the redeemer.
So Scott, of all the Rs you can mention, right?
There's only one that really matters, right?
Redeemer.
That's right.
And I would add, rely on the redeemer.
On your redeemer.
Rely on your redeemer.
That's what repentance is.
It's not relying on a checklist or going through the motions or doing things that you think
somehow causes you to earn forgiveness because that's not the way it works.
And that was my major mistake on my mission.
I learned the hard way.
That doesn't work.
So there's a second thing that it's not.
I think a third thing that it's not, which we talked about a little bit last time, especially
as kind of a follow up to faith is that repentance doesn't, it doesn't save us.
There's no in and of itself.
There's no redemptive power in repentance.
The power behind repentance is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ is who re is who saves us.
So I think that maybe that's all we need to say there is that all the power is not in
our actions.
All of the power is not in what I do.
And there's even no power at all in confessing to the bishop or in my own crying or in any
of that.
That doesn't save me unless I have adequate faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
And I believe in my heart of hearts that he really did suffer for my sins and that he
is full of mercy and grace and is quick and anxious to speedily forgive me.
Only when I have that kind of faith and understanding of Jesus Christ will I receive the power of
forgiveness and repentance in my life.
So and then the final thing that repentance is not and this one, this one would always
when I would teach this, my students would, it would always kind of wake them up.
You know how they, you get their attention, they kind of look up at you and they go, what?
Yeah, yeah.
I would, I love teaching it because there was, it really hit a nerve with so many of
my students.
Repentance is not stopping a behavior.
Repentance is not changing.
I mean, I know President Nelson says that it is and it is ultimately that's the results
of it.
And ultimately we need to change.
But in and of itself.
Repentance is not merely stopping a wrong behavior.
It's not changing a behavior.
Why is that not?
Repentance?
Well, even atheists and agnostics can do that.
Anybody can change a behavior, but there's no redemption in just stopping a behavior
or changing a behavior.
There's no redemption in that if Jesus Christ is not the center of it.
And I love this quote, which I've used for so many years and it's in the, it's in the
book.
This is elder Ezra Taft Benson who said, what page, what page are you on there?
Page 138.
Even the most just and upright man cannot save himself solely on his own merits.
If it were not for Jesus Christ, there could be no remission of sins.
Stopping a behavior doesn't bring a remission of sins.
Changing a behavior doesn't bring a remission of sins.
But through Jesus Christ, he can bring a remission of sin, which causes the change of heart.
So what repentance is not, Scott, it's not just change.
It's a change of nature.
In Jesus Christ.
It's not just change of behavior.
It's a change of nature.
That's what Elder per President Nelson really means when he says repentance is change.
It's a change of nature.
It's a change of heart.
It may even be to some degree a change of personality and character.
It changes our life, not just our behaviors.
That's true repentance.
So I, I think that that's maybe all we need to say about what repentance is not.
And that helps us to understand what it is.
Maybe just one more quote from the book, President Joseph F. Smith.
I love his, uh, right.
His book called gospel doctrine.
Men cannot forgive their own sins.
They cannot cleanse themselves from their own consequences of sin.
Men can can stop sinning and they can do right in the future.
And so far as their acts are acceptable before the Lord, they are worthy of consideration.
But who shall repair the wrongs?
That have been done to themselves and to others, which it seems impossible for them to repair
themselves by through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
The sins of the repentant shall be washed away.
Though they be crimson, they shall be made white as wool.
According Isaiah 118, this is the promise of repentance given to you.
So I, I, the atonement of Jesus Christ, it made the breach it covered it covered it.
It was a ransom, Scott.
It paid the full demands of justice.
We can't do that.
We can't begin to do that.
We can never do that.
It's without end.
Even if we don't repent of our sins, we'll never, we'll never be able to fully pay the
demands.
And why would God, I remember having this brief conversation, do we believe Jesus Christ
suffered for all the sins of the world?
Yes.
So if, if anyone believes that if you don't repent, that you're going to suffer again
for the sins, ransom demands of justice, then you have to ask yourself, would a kind, merciful
God demand a double payment?
Our repentance is not to pay back, be punished for our sins.
It is to receive the receive the gift of Christ atoning sacrifice in our life.
Scott, that's what repentance is.
And that's how we receive it.
And it should be so joyful to participate in that process.
Whatever it takes, whatever it takes, repentance is not easy.
I don't want to give any wrong impression that we're saying
that it's easy, breezy and takes a little effort.
It takes great effort to really understand what Jesus suffered, not only for us, but
because of us.
And to have that broken heart and contrite spirit and to, to become so humbled that
we, we would confess to those that we have, and we'll talk more about that.
That's a whole other podcast confession and the process of repentance.
I really think that's a manifestation of repentance.
We'll read about that.
But to go to the bishop, to go to those that we've heard, to ask for forgiveness of others,
that's not easy.
There's nothing easy about that.
But that's part of the process that helps us to tap into the full redemptive cleansing,
healing power of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
So I think another thing that we need to understand before we finish today in understanding what
repentance is not and what it is.
There are so many Scott who misunderstand repentance and think of it as an institutional
activity.
Right.
That was my experience teaching young adults in the church.
And I think so many youth in the church see repentance as an institutional activity or
event that it is through the church.
Repentance is not through the church.
It's not.
It's not through the bishop.
It's not through the priesthood.
I'm not making light or lessening the effect of going to those with keys and repenting
and the power of the priesthood to bless us and to help us through the process.
I am saying forgiveness is never, never through the church or an institution.
It's through one individual, the Lord Jesus Christ who suffered for our sins.
Repentance is through him.
It is an activity that centers and focuses on him.
Then any priesthood leader or individual who doesn't understand that will be trying to
cause a shortcut of repentance.
And that shortcut will actually short circuit the entire process.
It will backfire.
It will totally backfire and be counterproductive.
Yeah.
I think that's one of the things that's really important for us to understand.
All of this is.
But that one there can also be another huge roadblock.
I mean, you just shared the experience that Elder Bednar shared with others.
You know, well, I feel so much better now that I've done this.
This is the last thing on my checklist, the last thing I had to do.
That last thing was the institutional act.
Right.
And once that confession, I felt this and I know many of us probably have and probably
have felt like that we've been taught this.
But I know that I have been in that situation.
And once the confession and once I felt like, you know, I received the good back and the
good graces from the church that all was well.
And that created for me actually in some cases more sense ensue.
Because I totally misunderstood it.
Yeah.
Right.
And I had to get it short circuited, as you said.
And you thought you were done.
Yeah.
And you weren't done at all.
No.
The work that that's that's the real work is one of the most right with Jesus Christ.
One of the most dangerous forms of self deception, in my opinion, is to think that because we
have gone through that institutional process that we have been forgiven of our sins.
That's a different process.
That's a different activity.
Let's say more come unto me, experience the peace, learn of me.
Those are the things that bring that not sitting in the Bishops or State Presidents office.
Those are important.
You mentioned that.
And I don't I do not want to diminish the importance of that.
In fact, they can play.
They can place God a critical role.
They do play in the process because they are common judges.
We have judges in Israel.
Right.
And they have keys that that help us and to reconnect us and they have the power to determine
ordinances and our worthiness.
They they have the judgment and the spirit to determine worthiness to participate in
the ordinances, which then help us to receive the full power and forgiveness of the Lord
Jesus Christ in our life.
You know, we can't overstate again how important priesthood is in in the process.
But if you think that's repentance, you will never be able to repent or feel forgiven.
And to be clear, it's our job to make sure we understand that no matter what our experience
has been or will be in the future.
It's our job.
We are responsible to own and to execute our behavior with Jesus Christ.
It's not their job.
Their job is to help us and to help assimilate that.
And and and as you mentioned, to invoke ordinances and priesthood and all of those things, which
gets back to what we talked about a couple of weeks ago when we talked about faith in
his name.
That's why we do this.
Our godliness is manifest in the ordinances.
Power of the atonement of Jesus Christ is manifest in the ordinances.
It's all important.
And that's all a not just important.
It's a critical component to this repent process.
Repentance process.
Yes.
But the repentance.
But it's not repentance.
It's not.
The repentance comes as we develop our relationship with Jesus Christ and qualify for the blessings,
the blessings, the unconditional and conditional effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ as
we become qualified for those.
That's when the repentance takes place.
Amen.
And we'll talk more about what should be confessed and what shouldn't be confessed to the church
when we get to that part of repentance in a few weeks.
Scott, thank you so much.
I've enjoyed our discussion today about what repentance is not, which should help us then
understand what repentance is.
And I am just so grateful.
So, so, so thankful for the gift of repentance in my own life and hope all of our listeners
will understand.
You know, maybe this institutional thing, maybe we should end on a scripture.
Scott in Dr. Inc. section 10, a revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith when
he lost 116 pages.
And I've always found this to be a really interesting verse on repentance and the church
and how the Lord does tie them together.
Don't you read 66 and 67, Scott?
Yeah, if they will come, they may and partake of the waters of life freely.
Behold, this is my doctrine.
Whoever repenteth and cometh unto me the same is my church.
Who's the church?
Whoever cometh to me and repenteth.
I think that's an interesting definition of the church.
Yeah, that is an interesting definition for sure.
So even though it's repentance is not an institutional activity, right?
Amen, hallelujah.
If you don't repent, you're not of Christ's church.
You're not part of the body of Christ.
You're really not part of the body of Christ and enjoying all the blessings and ordinances
and powers of Christ through His Atonement which can flow into our lives.
I think the next verse is really interesting too.
Verse 68, whosoever declareeth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against
me.
Therefore, He is not of my church.
So again, the thing that's most critical and this podcast, How We Begin, the Lord has told
us over and over again, the thing that's most critical and greatest worth is to repent.
And I hope that we can all enjoy that blessing, that freeing blessing in each of our lives.
Me too.
Great discussion.
I really look forward to what's to come next and next and next after all of that.
This process is such a fun experience for me as we begin to open up and allow the spirit
of our Heavenly Father to testify to us the truths of the things that we've talked about
today, there's just such great freedom and such great joy and maybe above all of that,
the peace that comes to us because of His Atonement.
Thanks for being with us.
Remember, you have been redeemed through His blood and we look forward to being with
you again next week.
Have a great week, everybody.
Thank you.