Hey there everybody and welcome back. Another podcast redeemed through his blood. This is
Scott Durfey here. Joined as always by my great friend, our teacher, David Durfey.
It's a great time of the year, Scott. I think one of my favorites, spring and fall, I think,
are my two favorite seasons and this is a great time. We've enjoyed General Conference and Easter
and the Masters Golf Tournament. Oh, that's right. I forget. There's a holiday for you. Yeah. It's
always a little sad to me when it's on Easter weekend because I'm really torn though. Just kind
of troublesome for me. But what a great time of the year and good to be with you and I'm really
excited to talk about the different aspects and effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ today.
We've spent the last several, I guess a couple of months now again talking about the events of
the Atonement of Jesus Christ and it was really kind of great timing to talk about the resurrection
and all of that real close to Easter like we were able to. It was awesome that we've had such a
wonderful experience prior to Easter with General Conference. It wasn't that great. Oh my gosh,
I'm still reeling with just absolute enthusiasm. Awesome Easter centered General Conference focused
on the Savior and his last week and just really, really grateful for first presidency in the
Cormorant 12 and their emphasis on the yeah, I am too on this past Holy Week. You know,
that a lot of the benefits, a lot of the things that come as a benefit from what we do here is
our opportunity to talk to people. People will approach me and I know people will approach you
often too about questions or comments or, Hey, I hear you do a podcast and you know, one of the
things that it's been a minute since I kind of mentioned this, but or in any kind of detail,
we allude to it, I believe every podcast, but in any kind of detail at least, you know,
one of the things that really brought David and I together to work on this is not just our
family relationship. I mean, that's important above all things probably to us, but but it's also
our perspectives. You know, David comes with a 40 year church education system perspective and I'm
telling you that his perspective began way prior to that. Dave's been kind of like a big brother
to me actually all my life here and a really great example and it's been fun to watch him in his
relationship with the Savior develop and his understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ
and the power that comes from that develop over the years. Well, and now my perspective is, you
know, I came from a I kind of jumped off the tracks at a point in my life. And and because of that
jumping off of the tracks and the point at a point in my life, there's been a lot of, you know,
negative experiences, I guess, is kind of a outcome of that. A lot of relationships affected,
a lot of just a lot of a lot of, I don't know, a lot of damage, a lot of wake, you know, there's
just in the wake of my addiction and so forth. I'm a recovering alcoholic. I'll have 25 years sober,
clean and sober, completely off of drugs and alcohol this coming October. I'm currently
sponsoring several men in, I'll just say it in Alcoholics Anonymous, and maybe a couple of other
programs as well, the addiction recovery program from the LDS Church and so forth. But, you know,
Dave, I have a couple of listeners, we have a couple of listeners who aren't members of the
church per se, or don't identify as such, and and they listen to our podcast. They're also
participate in recovery programs. And one of them said to me, you haven't really talked much about
recovery lately. And I think, you know, and that's okay, it hasn't necessarily been by design, but
are but the things that we've talked about haven't really lent themselves to that type of discussion
in the kind of detail that we will be able to going forward now. You know, when we talk about
the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, this is where the healing begins. You know,
it's important to understand what happened to precipitate and facilitate the healing, etc.
The effects is where we see Jesus Christ power come into our lives and help us in all aspects of
our lives. And so, you know, I think that as we go through our discussion today, and you know,
more subsequent discussions as we continue on this topic, I think that it'll be important for those
of us who are seeking to have a deeper relationship with the Savior. And that's that's one of the
most important things in recovery to focus on. That's step number two, you know, step number one
is came to believe Eric step number one is admitted to we were powerless over alcohol or
whatever, and that our lives have become unmanageable. But then step two, we get right into
hope. We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Well,
that power that can restore us to sanity from our perspective is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
the Atonement, His Atonement, and the power that comes through it, His power that comes through
it. And it's important, I think that as we start talking about, and we start diving into this,
that we let our minds be drawn to the healing powers, let our hearts be drawn to the healing hope
that can come as we deepen that relationship. Yeah, well, recovery and repentance, Scott, are
her so intertwined, they're inextricably, I think, connected and hard to separate. And I don't want
to minimize or take away from from the word recovery, as it's used by you and others with
addictions. But we, we all repentance is is really a system of recovery. You know, repentance is
recovering our lost relationship with the Savior, our lost identity, knowing who's we are, who we
belong to. You know, repentance is recovery and recovery, whatever your religious leanings are,
or beliefs or tenants that you believe in, recovery is a process of of turning around. Yeah,
of changing. Yeah, exactly. And whatever higher power you believe in. But we're so grateful, as
members of the Church of Jesus Christ, we already say, it's to know that that higher power for us
is a Savior and Redeemer who not only gives us the power to do that, but who suffered for it. And
that that suffering in the in the deepest level, Scott, when we talk, we talked all about the
Atonement of Jesus Christ, that infinite, intimate Atonement of Jesus Christ. But ultimately, it
brings us when you understand the suffering of Jesus Christ, it brings you a level of gratitude.
And that gratitude, Scott, I don't know where gratitude is in the 12 steps, but gratitude is
the beginning of desire. And gratitude is what changes us in our relationship with Him. And if
you want to not even getting into the divine relationship with Savior, with our Heavenly
Father, with the Holy Spirit, I was thinking about this the other day with my eternal companion
in sweetheart Chris, that my love for her, and the desire that I have for her, as an eternal
companion, that desire of love that I have for her is based upon my gratitude for her, the
sacrifice near death experiences that she went through to give us five biological children,
one adopted child who has lots of challenges and problems, and then to give birth to three
stillborns. And the suffering that she has been through, the sacrifice that she has made for
me and for our family gives me a level of gratitude that connects us forever. My desires are to
her. But honestly, there are so many who, if they don't have sufficient gratitude, they lose that
feeling of need for, appreciation for, love for, they're not drawn towards.
Or dependence on.
Yeah, gratitude for Jesus Christ who paid the price of my sins, who suffered for me,
not only suffered for me, but suffered because of me. It gives me a level of gratitude which
brings me desire, Scott, to do what's right and to stop doing what's wrong.
This idea of gratitude is so important. And it's universally important. I'll be bold enough to say
that. Right? Yeah, no, it is. It doesn't matter what your religion is. And it doesn't matter if you
acknowledge or don't acknowledge the power by which all these things come. It's still Jesus Christ.
You know, I mean, and I get that and I don't mean to sound arrogant about that or, you know,
off-putting about that because and hopefully it's not. But my belief literally is that even if you
don't believe in Jesus Christ, any good that you're getting is still coming from him anyway.
Well, you know, and he's the Creator because he's the Creator, the Redeemer, the Savior,
the Redeemer, the Advocate, all of those things and all of that. And that gratitude part of it
deepens our desires, sure. And because that's such a true principle, that principle is one of the
overarching principles in any recovery program that really helps to people to get sober,
to stay sober, and to, you know, continue on. One of the first things I'll do, well,
actually, let me put it this way. I called a sponsor yesterday. I was a little bit troubled
about some things that's going on with my family. You know, I want to go Scott Durfey on it and
take control of everything and make everybody toe the line and, you know, do this and do that.
And what's your problem? If you could just see it the way I could see it, you know,
and those types of things. And in this, well, Mike, he said to me, he says,
Scott, what are you grateful for right now? Really? Yeah. Yeah. And this is a situation where we,
you know, and for me, you know, he helped me to remember the deep gratitude I have for Deb,
my wife, you know, and that she's really my family, you know, and everything builds around that.
And in this gratitude, it's not only helps focus our minds, David, on things that are more positive
than they would be otherwise, our minds focused on otherwise. But it also invites the spirit
because out because when we're acknowledging from whence these blessings come, or even if we're
just seeking from whence these blessings come, and we're not 100% sure even maybe,
you know, I still invite the spirit, the spirit of confirmation, the comforter, the all of the
blessings that come to us as and we've talked and we'll continue to talk, we'll get into this in a
lot more detail upcoming here. But the the effects, and that's what we're going to be getting into,
the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that come through His Atonement, the power that
comes through His Atonement, they're administered to us by the spirit of the Holy Ghost. The
administration of the Atonement is one of the main principle. He is the messenger and the
administrator of the powers of Christ and the Atonement in our life. And when we feel that, it
helps us. No doubt. Okay, so you've told me before, Scott, you keep a I keep a gratitude
journal. You keep a gratitude journal and you've got that from the 12 steps. Yeah, well, that's
actually step 10. And it's not a gratitude journal per se. I mean, I use a gratitude journal as an
extension of and so do the guys that, you know, I use me for sponsorship, kind of do this same
thing, you know, so step 10, step 10, we're getting way ahead here. But step 10 simply says, I
continue to take personal inventory. In other words, I continue to inspect my life. And when I'm
wrong, I promptly admit it, you know, and who do I promptly admit it to? Well, that depends, you
know, this is again, part of that repentance process, that recovery process that you're talking
about here, that's made available to us through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. But but as a part of
that, you know, sometimes, and we'll talk about this eventually. And I know we did earlier in the
year to what focus is so important and what we focus on expands. And so if I'm only always focusing
on everything I'm doing wrong, you know, that just doesn't suit that doesn't just a lot that doesn't
align with I think the spirit, right? I mean, it's important for me to acknowledge it. It's
important for me to admit it. It's important for me to repent of it. That's all part of my
prop repentance process, not steps, but process, we'll get to that too. But but but but because
of that, I do always make a list of what I'm grateful for that day. And I try not to duplicate.
It's so easy to duplicate. But well, I it's it's a power, it's gratitude itself is a power. There's
an energy about it that that changes our desires and changes what we love and changes what we
focus what we choose to focus on. I how cool was it? How many times did they quote the scripture
in general conference? Look unto me. Yeah, in every thought. I started to keep track of that.
That's your that's one of your favorites. I know I love that so many times in this
podcast. I every time I heard it in general conference, which was multiple times my ears
perked up and I smiled and thought, oh, thank you. I'm so thankful. Yeah. So Scott, I all of our
listeners need to consider their all of their relationships relationship with the and if it
is insufficient, if it's not what you would like it to be, my testimony and invitation to you is to
consider where you're at in your level of understanding for and gratitude for
what what our Heavenly Father has sacrificed for us in giving us his son. I hope I hope during
Easter last week I was thinking a lot about the sacrifice of the father Abraham sacrificing, you
know, the metaphor of Abraham and Isaac and and the father sacrificing giving us his only begotten
beloved son as a sacrifice for all of us. That should that should increase our gratitude for
him, our father and then to understand the excruciating suffering and the loving
willingness of the Savior to suffer for us. My goodness, if you understand the Atom of Jesus
Christ, you will be filled with gratitude and in the wake of that gratitude Elder Scott says,
it will provide the highest motivation or desire to do what's right and to be a follower
or disciple of Jesus Christ. And as we as we think about our relationships with our families,
why is it that sometimes we let these little things ruin our relationships with our
family when we have so much to be thankful for if we could see the the sacrifice that our parents
make for us. They're not perfect. None of us are. And if people could just understand and
feel more gratitude for those who they should be close to, I think it would turn their hearts
towards those individuals and be life changing. So just that one principle. I remember President
Faust said that gratitude is is not just a good principle to live by, but it's a
principle of salvation and exaltation. Oh, yeah, you can't be exalted without without having gratitude.
Well, of course, I agree with that, but I hadn't thought of that before you do you want to expand
on that a little bit. It's a if you don't have if you don't have gratitude, you're not going to have
the sufficient relationship or humility, meekness or dependence upon our Heavenly Father, our Savior,
the Holy Spirit that you need in order to go live with them to be become like them. Yeah.
It's it's really gratitude is the power, I think, behind our desires to become like them. Yeah.
Yeah. It's the it's the power behind our feeling of love, right, that we have for them. It's
the highest form and level of love. You know, it's, you know, what divine love. Yeah. You know,
what I've noticed gratitude also does is it deepens my desire to get to know him.
Yeah. You know what I mean? I often our hearts. It does. Yeah. And I just find myself. I was
telling Deb last night, I said, I think I'm going to go get a degree in religious studies.
And she's like, well, okay, you know, because I just I'm probably not going to do that. I mean,
that's a bold statement to put out there and everything like that. But but what I but what
I do love is I just can't get enough of learning about him. Last night, I was studying Romans 5
again. And I just love so much to learn about the Savior and all that he is not all that he was,
but all that he is and still to me in my life. And that's really sweet. I was I was I'd actually
applied and was going to get a doctor of doctor of theology back in Minnesota. Yeah. University of
St. Thomas private Catholic school in St. Paul, Minnesota. And then I was asked by Salt Lake
to be an area director over some reason institutes which required so much traveling covering 10
states of I had 10 states in my area and I was gone 99 a year and it was just more than I could
have. I couldn't have done both. So I I've always wanted yeah, well, it's just that is theology
from from really another another university, right? Yeah, something like right. Yeah.
St. Thomas or yeah, go to the these. I think Yale and Harvard may have actually they do have
Divinity schools. Yeah, schools of theology. Yeah, it's cool. And so anyway, we're a lot of like that
way, Scott. And we share a lot of things even though you were talking about our different paths,
you know, I've thankfully I haven't had this some of the experiences that you've had to go through.
And yet how awesome the lessons that you've learned that have blessed so many. And as you were
talking about your experiences with addiction and recovery, I was thinking of the Scripture in
Isaiah 61 verse three, you know, beauty for ashes. You're an example of that Scott, that's the work
of the Savior and the Holy Ghost in your life administering the atonement in your life. But
that's that's what we're really talking about is receiving beauty out of ashes. And as we as we
move into the different aspects and effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, my prayer is and hope
is for all of us to increase our gratitude, our understanding. I think maybe understanding
precedes gratitude, our understanding and level of gratitude for Jesus Christ and the gift,
the infinite intimate gift of the atonement in our life. Yeah, you say I think understanding
precedes gratitude, I think it does to a degree. But then I think the more gratitude we have the
deeper it's like it's a helix, right? Yeah, talk about the power of faith is similar to that, you
know, like the helix. Yeah. So it just keeps continuing upward. Yeah, absolutely. I'm still
trying to understand it. And my gratitude I know is still growing. Pray it always will. Yeah. Well,
so Scott, there are conditional and unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
You know, almost all the powers that are available to us through Jesus through because of Jesus Christ
through his atonement, there are conditional and unconditional aspects of it. There are some things
that we absolutely have to do in order to receive the powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ in
our life. And there are other things that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, powers,
mercies, grace and gifts just flow into our lives unconditionally. And it is the atonement of Jesus
Christ perfected the plan of redemption of the Father, the plan of happiness, the plan of mercy.
There are 13 different titles of the plan in the Book of Mormon alone. And and the atonement of Jesus
Christ perfected that perfect plan so that all things would be in equilibrium. All things would
be fair. And so as we as we get into this, I think that it's it's probably necessary that in
general conference and in Sunday school classes and in seminary and institute courses,
they spend about 80% of the time talking about the conditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus
Christ, how we need faith in him, that's a choice, and that's conditional how we need to repent.
That's obviously a choice and optional and something that we have to take responsibility
and requires action on our part right participating in the ordinances. That's a choice that we make
receiving whether you receive the Holy Ghost or you don't receive it is all all those are options
that we have to make conscious choices in order to receive the blessings. But there are so many
other blessings that come into our life because of the atonement of Jesus Christ without us doing
anything. I remember Brother Robert J. Matthews who wrote the Bible dictionary telling a group of us
that he had heard a man recently in a testimony meeting, which he attended say,
if we don't repent, the atonement of Jesus Christ does nothing for us.
And Brother Matthews said, I wanted to stand up and scream. Yeah, I wanted to run up to the
pulpit and say that's not true. But so many people I think in the church think or don't appreciate
or understand or have sufficient gratitude for all of the unconditional aspects of the atonement
of Jesus Christ in our life. And I honestly believe Scott that the most important aspects
of the atonement of Jesus Christ are the unconditional ones. Because when I consider the
unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, Scott, I am filled with gratitude and
desire, which then help me to go through and fulfill my role and my responsibilities in
receiving the conditional blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ in my life. So I think we should
begin if it's okay talking about the unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Yeah, I think that's a great place to start. And as we do this, I'll invite us all, ourselves, David,
and our listeners, I'll invite us all to search, even though maybe we've had this experience before,
maybe we already know everything that we're grateful for about the atonement of Jesus Christ.
But as we talked about these unconditional parts, these unconditional blessings that come to us as
from the atonement of Jesus Christ and Christ's power through that, I invite us all to reconsider,
you know, maybe have a fresh look at how great is that blessing in my life and where do I see it.
Let's not just take for granted that our past experience will suffice us through this. If we
really want to get out of this discussion, what I think is available for us to get out of this
discussion, I would invite us all to kind of take that approach. Yeah, thank you. And maybe a few
journal entries would be helpful, right? You know, for people to write down and take a moment at least
and pause, consider and meditate upon where they have seen and where they have received the
unconditional blessings. You know what, I would have Christ in their life. I would love it if we
could get a couple of emails, maybe. Oh, yeah, those lines, you know, we if you're so inclined to
share and if you'd like us to not share it on air here or what have you, just to make sure you
include that. But you can reach us at he redeems us at gmail.com still. Yeah, thank you.
Before I jump right into the unconditional aspects of the atonement of Christ,
I want to just say that as we talk about this, that there are, I think, basically
three or four basic powers. When we talk about the powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ,
I think we're think we're really describing three or four different specific powers that can be
described. One of those is the redemptive powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ. One of them,
second one is the enabling powers. We'll describe these in more detail. The enabling powers
of the atonement of Christ. Third, the compensatory blessings, the compensating powers of the atonement
of Jesus Christ in our life. And the fourth one, I would say, are the healing and cleansing powers
of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. And Scott, I think it's just really helpful for us.
And there are probably more. I don't want to, I'm sure there are many more infinite powers
that flow into our lives. Well, those are four pretty, pretty good categories. Yeah,
categories and many, many blessings under each of those. But as we talk about the unconditional
and conditional aspects, I think we're mostly speaking here, the unconditional aspects at
least of the atonement are the redemptive powers of the atonement in our life category. Number one,
the redemptive powers are overcoming unconditionally the two deaths that we have described that came
into the world because of the fall of Adam and Eve. And unconditionally, Scott, those are covered
by the atonement of Jesus Christ. The first negative was that Adam and Eve and all of us are cut off
from God. We're out of the presence of God when we come to mortality, celestial world, fallen earth.
That will be unconditionally overcome when we return to their presence to be judged. And all
will return to their presence to be judged. I know the scriptures that say no unclean thing can dwell
in the presence of God, but all of Heavenly Father's children will return to His presence to be judged.
We'll look at scriptures on that in a minute. The second, the second unconditional universal
consequence of Christ's suffering is the resurrection of all mankind, that all mankind would overcome
physical death. So Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice unconditionally overcame death and
hell. Death meaning the death of physical death, separation of body and spirit and hell, which is
spiritual death or cut off from righteousness, cut off from God. We're all going to be resurrected,
all mankind, and we're all going to return to their presence to be judged. I think as
Latter-day Saints we're pretty clear on the idea of a universal resurrection. I think my favorites
versus on that are in Alma chapter 11, verses 40 through 44. There are many other passages, but
that's my favorite. If our readers want to want to read that and ponder that, it's also taught,
I think, in the Bible, even though we're pretty unique as members of the Church of Jesus Christ
Latter-day Saints among Christians to believe in a universal resurrection, I think it's taught in
the Bible in 1 Corinthians 15 through 22 as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all
be made alive. But we're not so clear in our church or any other church about this doctrine that all
will return to the presence of God. So we've read this before, but let's turn to Helaman.
In the Book of Mormon, Scott, in Helaman chapter 14, the teachings and prophesies of Samuel the
Lamanite, powerful witness of the Savior who, gratefully, the Savior told the compilers of the
Book of Mormon that they'd left his teachings out and that they needed to be in there. And I
think one of the reasons that he wanted them in there so bad is because of chapter 14.
Because chapter 14, Samuel gives a very powerful discourse on the atonement of Jesus Christ.
So let's, I don't know, Scott, let's pick up with 13. Okay, would you? And let's start reading
Helaman 14 verse 13. And if you believe on his name, you will repent of all your sins,
that thereby you may have a remission of them through his merits. Okay, so
number one, you got to believe in his name. You got to repent of your sins. This is all
conditional stuff. Well, and I think it's important and we'll come back to this, but it's important
that the remission of those sins come through his merits, not ours, no meritocracy on our part.
Yeah, everyone should circle the word his little pronouns really important, his merits, not ours.
Now skip to 15. For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come. Yea, it behoove with him
and becomeeth expedient that he dyeth to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby
man may be brought into the presence of the Lord. Okay, so there's a resurrection,
a resurrection, unconditional, and because of the resurrection, all mankind will be brought into the
presence of the Lord. He clarifies verse 16. Yea, behold, his death bringeth to pass the resurrection
and redeemeth all mankind from the first death, that spiritual death. For all mankind by the
fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord are considered as dead, both as to things
temporal and think spiritual. And in 17, but behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth
mankind. Yea, even all mankind and bringeth him back to the presence of the Lord.
Wow. I mean, that's really, this is taught in many places in the Book of Mormon. It's got about
10 times in the Book of Mormon. And yet it's just so crystal clear here in Helman chapter 14. It just
can't get more clear than that, right? Christ redeemeth all mankind and bringeth them back into
the presence of the Lord. So if someone were to ask you, Scott, are you redeemed? Yea, absolutely.
Yea, we're all redeemed. Jesus Christ redeemed all mankind. Not just because of the resurrection,
but we will go back into the presence of our Heavenly Father. Verse 18, just maybe,
let's read verse 18. Alright. Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance. So that's
conditional. That's whosoever repenteth, the same as not hewn down and cast into the fire.
But whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire. And there cometh upon them,
again a spiritual death. Yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining
to righteousness. So even though we're all redeemed, all mankind, through the atonement of Jesus
Christ are redeemed. Unconditionally, if we haven't repented, if we haven't taken care of the things
that we can take care of, that we have control over, if we're still unwilling to repent, if we're
not willing or don't have the desire to follow Jesus Christ, then we will again experience
spiritual death. And we will go to either a lesser kingdom of glory, even then we'll be in the presence
of a member of the Godhead. If you go to the terrestrial kingdom, Jesus Christ reigns over
the terrestrial kingdom, the Holy Ghost reigns over the terrestrial kingdom. Those only those,
Scott, who suffer complete spiritual death will be sons of perdition. I mean, they go to a place
called Alder Darkness, where they become the children of Satan. And so, I mean, think of the
mercy and the grace in all of that. Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice, having through his sacrifice,
met all of the demands of justice, having suffered for all the sins of all mankind,
whether repented of or not, Scott, Jesus Christ has redeemed us. That's unconditional.
Whether we receive it or not, and are exalted by it or not, that's that's on us. That's our
choice. It depends on our qualification for that. Yeah, can earn it. I like that word,
qualification. We qualify for it. We can never in this life or the next earn it. So that's the
redemptive powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I wish all of us when we would think
of the question, am I redeemed? We would see a big in caps. Why E s exclamation mark, exclamation
mark, exclamation mark, the enemy, right? It's his job to cloud our vision to cloud our judgment to
help and accuser at a great accuser. We have been greatly accused in the church and out of the church.
And we sometimes like to complicate this. And I think that we I think that we do the Atonement of
Jesus Christ to disservice when we do that. This is not meant to be anything but a loving invitation
and an acknowledgement of our redemption. I mean, that there's some qualification and we'll get into
that. You know, the qualification part will come to the conditional parts of the Atonement of Jesus
Christ and they come through repentance. But even that word, David, and we'll talk about this, I know
in another podcast in the future, but even that word is extremely misunderstood. Right. You know,
sometimes I hear the word and in the past, especially I see that word repentance and it would be
just like, Oh my goodness, there's no possible way I have so much to repent from because I didn't
understand the process by which that meant. And, you know, so hang with us as we start to take on
some of these ideas that may be, you know, maybe not completely comfortable. But as we as we start
talking and as we actually continue talking about these things, fill the spirit, don't fill the
resistance, fill the spirit. I think most of our listeners, Scott, think of Jesus as their redeemer,
but they don't feel redeemed. Yeah. That's just, if he's our redeemer, yeah, if you, if you believe
Jesus Christ is your redeemer, yeah, then why in the heck would you not think that you're redeemed?
Yeah. If you're not redeemed, then he ain't your redeemer. That's right. I just, oh,
it, and we think of him as our savior. Is Jesus Christ your savior or not? Yeah. But then we think,
but have I been saved? It's kind of the same thing, right? Definitely. Yeah. Now, again,
being exalted or what kingdom of glory we end up in. That's a different conversation. That's a
totally different thing. That gets down to the conditional aspects. We're focusing right now
on the unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ who has redeemed and saved all of
God's children in overcoming the spiritual, the first death, spiritual death,
brought into the world by Adam and Eve and their transgression, and the second death,
which is the physical death. There is a, are we saved from death? Yes. Are we saved from hell?
Yes. Unconditionally. After that, there's some choices you need to make, which will affect where
you maybe spend the rest of your eternity. So that's number one, the redemptive powers
of our Redeemer, the enabling powers. Wait, just a second. Before we get to the enabling powers,
I want to talk just one more thing about the redemptive powers as specifically as it relates to
the physical death. Okay. So, you know, we think of these powers and blessings coming to us in a
life after this one. I can't wait till I can participate in that blessing. I can't wait till
I can feel the fullness of that blessing in my life. I can't wait and we see that as some maybe
future event. Yeah. Anytime, and I'm going to specifically talk about the physical death
redemption here right now. Anytime we're healed from any kind of physical malady. Anytime we have
a sickness and we're healed from that. Anytime we break a bone and we're healed from that. Anytime
we have any kind of mental illness and we feel relief or reprieve from that. Anytime, and the
list goes on ad nauseam, I get that. But anytime any of those healings come, that's because of the
redemptive powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Yes. And I would, and this gets into a little
bit, Scott, I think the compensatory powers of Jesus Christ, someone who is born with physical
ailments and maybe they're not completely healed from them. But in the next life, they will receive
compensatory blessings because of them. Even in this life, they'll probably receive, for sure they
will. Even in this life, they receive compensatory blessings and powers from it. I saw a documentary
about this unbelievable Japanese pianist, Noku, as he goes by, and won the prestigious world
championship like when he was 18 years old, and he's totally blind. And it was so interesting to
watch this documentary on him and the compensatory powers and blessings of light, even though he's
blind, that he received in his life, because he was blind, how he could see things that we,
that we who can see, will never see. I mean, those are some of the compensatory blessings
that I think those who have physical ailments receive in this life before they're ever resurrected.
But in this life or the next, there will be these healings and compensatory powers that
unconditionally flow into our lives. Maybe Scott, there are some cases, probably more than not,
where some people are healed because of their faith, which is a choice, and that's conditional.
It's conditional whether people receive blessings and have faith to receive those blessings, and
have faith or the power of faith to be able to really tap in to those healing powers through
the Atom of Christ. So some of that's conditional. But much of it is unconditional.
And I said that, talking about the redemptive powers, but now that I think about it, and you
bring it to my attention, the compensatory blessings come through that too, but we're
going to talk about the enabling blessings. Well, those two can come as part of that.
Yes. Some of those are no and unconditional, right? Yep. No doubt. I think of the all of the
examples in the Book of Mormon of individuals, Nephi, and you have a Limheine is group,
Baalman is group. There's there's many examples of this. And you can look up, you can look up
the phrase in the strength of the Lord, and follow the enabling powers, which is really
also associated with the term grace. We use the term grace to describe the enabling powers
of Christ in our life to be able to do things that we would not have the strength to do alone.
And many examples of that in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and in church history and
in our own personal life, Scott, of how Christ has strengthened us and how we are able to do
things in the strength of the Lord, how we are able to carry burdens. Maybe the burdens won't be
less, but our backs will be strengthened. That great example in the Book of Mormon,
how they their their backs were strengthened to carry their burdens. That that's the that's the the
grace or the enabling powers of Christ that are available to us in our life. And I know some of
those are unconditional, and some are conditional as well, depending upon our faith in asking for them.
Or sometimes people who don't know who to ask or don't even know that maybe there is a God
or other people who've never heard of Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father takes all of that into
consideration. And many of those individuals are blessed with grace every day to carry to carry
their burdens. Heavenly Father doesn't have, you know, really Scott, he gives grace to every all of
his children. Sometimes conditional, sometimes unconditional. So that's right, the physical,
all the physical elements and healings and all of that are part of the powers and blessings of
the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. One of my other favorite unconditional aspects of the
Atonement of Jesus Christ, Scott, which is somewhat connected to the to the resurrection and to this
redemptive power is all little children who die before the age of accountability. And I don't think
that's a chronological number or in years, but is is associated with their their mental and
intellectual and other abilities. All little children or all children, they could be not even
little, they could be adult children, all children who die before the age of accountability,
are unconditionally alive in Christ and are not only redeemed, not only saved, but are exalted,
Scott. Yeah, not just little children, but all that were without the law. Yeah. Well, yeah, who were
not accountable in the law and who will after this life receive the law with full purpose of
heart. Yeah, we find that actually in Moroni chapter 8 verse 22. Let me just read it for behold,
that all little children are alive in Christ, and also that they are without they that are
without the law for the power of redemption, comeeth to all them that have no law, wherefore,
he that is not condemned or he that is under no condemnation cannot repent and into such baptism
availeth nothing. Yeah. And verse 12, Scott, I I've told this experience before, so I'll just
tell it real briefly here, but I was a teacher at the old missionary home in Salt Lake City years
ago, having been called to do that right after my mission by by then elder Thomas S. Monson,
and I taught with a companion elder Hanson from Salt Lake City every Tuesday morning,
and I heard this experience for I don't know how many. Well, I was there for over two years, so
they and tell they moved the old missionary home down to Provo and called it the missionary training
center. Anyway, I heard the story of him as a missionary in Canada, going to a little white
house down some dark lane last house before it got dark, knocked on the door. And as he's
he's only been out a short time, and he hears a voice come into his mind as this impression,
like a voice into his mind, read Moroni 8 10 through 12. So he says I didn't know what that
what I didn't know what that said. So he said I unzip my scripture covers his old missionary
scripture cover and he turns to Moroni here and finds it. And a young woman opens the door and
he says ma'am, I have a scripture to read to you. And he reads Moroni 8 10 through 12 you want to
read that sky. Yep, you bet. Moroni 8 10 through 12 starting in 10. Behold, I say unto you that this
thing you shall ye teach repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of
committing sin. Ye teach parents that they must repent and be baptized and humble themselves as
their little children. And they shall all be saved with their little children. And their little
children need no repentance neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling
of the commandments and to the remission of sins. But little children are alive in Christ,
even from the foundation of the world. If not so, God is a partial God and also a change in
God and a respecter to persons for how many little children have died without baptism.
Alive in Christ. And anyway, he reads that scripture and he never looks up until he reads
all three verses and he finally looks up and tears her streaming down her cheeks. And she said,
how did you know who sent you here? Who told you? And he said, know what? No, we're sent here by
the Lord Jesus Christ. He said, I'm from Salt Lake City in the Lord Jesus. And she wept and she
said, I've been praying for two weeks that somebody would come and tell me where my baby is.
Oh, had she lost a baby? Her baby had just two weeks before had lived for just a few hours after
birth and died. And then she had gone to her Catholic priest. And you know, this is like 40
years ago now. She went to her Catholic priest and he told her that her baby was in purgatory
because he he hadn't been baptized. Right. And she said, I knew that couldn't be true.
Now in fairness to the Catholic Church, they've softened their stance and position on that.
But she said, I knew that couldn't be true. And here are these two elders
sent by the Lord tell her where her baby is that he's alive in Christ and that he's with the Savior.
And she they set up a timer husband wasn't home and they set up a time went back and
went back and taught that young couple and baptized them. And I just think this is one of the great
doctrines of the Restoration. Yeah, yeah. No one else no one else believes what we believe about
this. I mean, they I know individuals do everybody believes that if their babies die,
that they're with Jesus, of course, makes sense. Absolutely. That's just the light of Christ.
Exactly. Screaming at us. That's the light of Christ. Right. Not screaming and a still small
voice. He whispers that's true. Yeah. But but honestly, Scott, it is so clear in the doctrine
of the Restoration of the fullness of the gospel. It is taught over and over and over again.
I'm just so grateful. Now we should also make it really clear. Children are fallen and they are
lost even though they're alive in Christ. Right. And even though they're unconditionally redeemed,
saved and even exalted in the celestial kingdom, it's really important that we understand that
they're fallen. So let's just read that scripture, Scott. That's that's in Mosiah.
Mosiah chapter three, great discourse on King Benjamin on the fall and the atonement
of Christ. And let's read verse 16. And even if it were possible, the little children could sin,
they could not be saved. So we know that little children can't sin.
But they're still fallen. Read it. Start over. And even if it were possible that little children
could sin, they could not be saved. But I say unto you, they are blessed for behold, as in Adam,
or by nature they fall, even so the blood of Christ atoneth for their sins.
Unconditionally unconditionally. Children are fallen. But they're unconditionally saved.
Alive in Christ. That is what I think about Scott. How many little children have died? Oh my gosh,
you know, more than have probably made it. I mean, over the years, maybe not. Well,
really the over over 300 years ago, the infant mortality rate, meaning, meaning children who
died before they reached the age of eight was like 50%. That's the statistics I've seen. Over 50%
of God's children never made it to the age of eight. So how many people are going to be in the
celestial kingdom? They're going to be more people in the celestial kingdom than in any other kingdom,
just based on that fact alone, based on that fact, that truth, that doctrine alone, right?
It's amazing. Think about the mercy, the grace, the power, the redemptive powers of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ. Oh man, most of Heavenly Father's children are going to be exalted. Yeah, not just
saved exalted. Even though we're all redeemed, most of them even are going to be exalted. And
that's that's why, because all little children are unconditionally not only redeemed but exalted.
Well, another one, Scott, that I think is really important. And this has this has to do with maybe
a story that I think we're about out of time. Maybe I'll wait and share that story next time, Scott,
about another aspect of the unconditional powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that I heard from
a general authority and experienced for myself on an Indian reservation in Hardin, Montana,
the Crow, the great, powerful Crow Indian reservation. I had an experience there with Elder Hugh Pinnock
and he shared a scripture and then taught doctrine that changed my life in not only
regards to how I how I see the Atonement of Jesus Christ, but also in how I see my human family,
my spirit, brothers and sisters. And when we understand all of the unconditional blessings
and powers that flow into our life and did the life of all of God's children because of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ, Scott, how can we not be filled with more gratitude and greater desire to follow,
follow Jesus? It answers so many, so many questions, Scott, that are that our families are our loved
ones are the world, so many questions that they wrestle with and understanding the powers and
blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ really answers most of those questions. And so I'm really
thankful for the couple of podcasts, this one and maybe a few more to follow in which we'll really
explore all of the effects and different aspects of the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus Christ in
our life. And I'm glad that we're doing that. I think that this is not a study that should be rushed.
This is something that we should contemplate and maybe even wrestle with on our own as we
reconcile the spirit as it bears witness to us as we can contemplate and consider where maybe our
judgment of ourselves has been off because of maybe influences that were inaccurate to our
understandings that have been a little bit inaccurate around the Atonement of Jesus Christ
and the redemptive and enabling and compensatory powers that come to us from those. This is where
for me and I'm going to be bold here again and say, you know, and I believe for all recovering
addicts and alcoholics, this is where the rubber starts to meet the road because it's good for us
to know it's interesting to have an academic experience with anything. But this is where we
start to have that experiential experience, you know, with the Atonement of Jesus Christ. This is
where we fill those powers in our own lives. This is where through our own gratitude, we begin to
magnify our desire and as that desire magnifies, we begin to create even a more enticing invitation
of the Spirit to come and bowed with us and be with us and to administer to us the things in this
life that are so evasive for so many. And you know, we're in a critical time. This is a critical
time in the world. We listened to a conference a couple of weeks ago. We celebrate Easter last
week or this past week and we consider and contemplate and deepen our gratitude and desire
for things that are eternally important by doing this. I'm grateful for you, Dave. I'm grateful
for the opportunity that we have to share this with others that I get to learn from you and that
maybe hopefully by the Spirit that somebody's lives can be touched. Well, thank you so much, Scotty.
I'm really grateful, so grateful. And my gratitude continues to grow as my understanding increases
as to the Father's plan of redemption or plan of salvation or plan of happiness.
I'm just so, so grateful that we have the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ
in our lives and pray that our listeners will search the word, search the scriptures and
and come to receive the greater understanding and gratitude that they need to strengthen their
relationships with each other and with deity. It all comes down to that, Scot. Now, I think that
was taught in general conference by a few speakers. It all comes down to our relationship.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is not a checklist of do's and don'ts or even a checklist of
commandments. It's more so much more than even ordinances and covenants. And the only reason
there are ordinances and covenants and commandments are to strengthen our relationship
with with Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father and to receive the Holy Ghost. So I pray that in
all that we're doing in sharing will somehow strengthen our relationships.
Because that's that's the one needful thing that we all have is to have a relationship with Jesus
Christ and a relationship with our loved ones that is accompanied by the spirit influence the
Holy Ghost in our life. So Lord bless all of us. I pray that he'll bless all of us to come to a
deeper understanding and gratitude for the doctrine of Christ and in his atoning sacrifice.
And that that person that you really don't like or the meanest most wicked person that you see today,
he or she has been redeemed to and it changes how you see others. When you understand this
doctrine, Scott, they have a savior. They may not know their savior. They have a redeemer. They
maybe haven't ever heard of him or have rejected him. But that doesn't mean they have not been saved
or redeemed because they that's unconditional. They have been saved. They have been redeemed.
They will be resurrected. Christ suffered for them to and they will return to the presence of God.
And then it will be their choice. And they have choices here too. I understand all of that.
I understand that. I am not a universalist. I don't believe I don't believe everyone's going to be
exalted. But Jesus Christ did the work of the Father and because of the Father's love for his
children, he is Jesus Christ, all of our redeemer and all of our savior. And that should change how
we see others. Yeah. And it's our prayer that you feel that about yourself and others. May God
make it so in all of our lives. It's our prayer. We'll see you next week. Thanks everybody.