1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,360 Hey there everybody and welcome back. Another podcast redeemed through his blood. This is 2 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:28,200 Scott Durfey here. Joined as always by my great friend, our teacher, David Durfey. 3 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:36,000 It's a great time of the year, Scott. I think one of my favorites, spring and fall, I think, 4 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:44,040 are my two favorite seasons and this is a great time. We've enjoyed General Conference and Easter 5 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:53,120 and the Masters Golf Tournament. Oh, that's right. I forget. There's a holiday for you. Yeah. It's 6 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,720 always a little sad to me when it's on Easter weekend because I'm really torn though. Just kind 7 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:04,960 of troublesome for me. But what a great time of the year and good to be with you and I'm really 8 00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:14,480 excited to talk about the different aspects and effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ today. 9 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:21,360 We've spent the last several, I guess a couple of months now again talking about the events of 10 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:27,600 the Atonement of Jesus Christ and it was really kind of great timing to talk about the resurrection 11 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:34,200 and all of that real close to Easter like we were able to. It was awesome that we've had such a 12 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:40,240 wonderful experience prior to Easter with General Conference. It wasn't that great. Oh my gosh, 13 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:47,600 I'm still reeling with just absolute enthusiasm. Awesome Easter centered General Conference focused 14 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:55,840 on the Savior and his last week and just really, really grateful for first presidency in the 15 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:01,560 Cormorant 12 and their emphasis on the yeah, I am too on this past Holy Week. You know, 16 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,680 that a lot of the benefits, a lot of the things that come as a benefit from what we do here is 17 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,320 our opportunity to talk to people. People will approach me and I know people will approach you 18 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,880 often too about questions or comments or, Hey, I hear you do a podcast and you know, one of the 19 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:22,280 things that it's been a minute since I kind of mentioned this, but or in any kind of detail, 20 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:27,560 we allude to it, I believe every podcast, but in any kind of detail at least, you know, 21 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:34,680 one of the things that really brought David and I together to work on this is not just our 22 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,800 family relationship. I mean, that's important above all things probably to us, but but it's also 23 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:46,680 our perspectives. You know, David comes with a 40 year church education system perspective and I'm 24 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:52,840 telling you that his perspective began way prior to that. Dave's been kind of like a big brother 25 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:58,760 to me actually all my life here and a really great example and it's been fun to watch him in his 26 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,960 relationship with the Savior develop and his understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ 27 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:08,320 and the power that comes from that develop over the years. Well, and now my perspective is, you 28 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:15,360 know, I came from a I kind of jumped off the tracks at a point in my life. And and because of that 29 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,040 jumping off of the tracks and the point at a point in my life, there's been a lot of, you know, 30 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:26,360 negative experiences, I guess, is kind of a outcome of that. A lot of relationships affected, 31 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:33,640 a lot of just a lot of a lot of, I don't know, a lot of damage, a lot of wake, you know, there's 32 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:41,400 just in the wake of my addiction and so forth. I'm a recovering alcoholic. I'll have 25 years sober, 33 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:48,160 clean and sober, completely off of drugs and alcohol this coming October. I'm currently 34 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:55,280 sponsoring several men in, I'll just say it in Alcoholics Anonymous, and maybe a couple of other 35 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:01,600 programs as well, the addiction recovery program from the LDS Church and so forth. But, you know, 36 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:07,480 Dave, I have a couple of listeners, we have a couple of listeners who aren't members of the 37 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:16,000 church per se, or don't identify as such, and and they listen to our podcast. They're also 38 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,520 participate in recovery programs. And one of them said to me, you haven't really talked much about 39 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:28,560 recovery lately. And I think, you know, and that's okay, it hasn't necessarily been by design, but 40 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,200 are but the things that we've talked about haven't really lent themselves to that type of discussion 41 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,880 in the kind of detail that we will be able to going forward now. You know, when we talk about 42 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,560 the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, this is where the healing begins. You know, 43 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,920 it's important to understand what happened to precipitate and facilitate the healing, etc. 44 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:57,040 The effects is where we see Jesus Christ power come into our lives and help us in all aspects of 45 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:02,800 our lives. And so, you know, I think that as we go through our discussion today, and you know, 46 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:10,480 more subsequent discussions as we continue on this topic, I think that it'll be important for those 47 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,200 of us who are seeking to have a deeper relationship with the Savior. And that's that's one of the 48 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,320 most important things in recovery to focus on. That's step number two, you know, step number one 49 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,920 is came to believe Eric step number one is admitted to we were powerless over alcohol or 50 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,840 whatever, and that our lives have become unmanageable. But then step two, we get right into 51 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:34,000 hope. We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Well, 52 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,440 that power that can restore us to sanity from our perspective is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, 53 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,400 the Atonement, His Atonement, and the power that comes through it, His power that comes through 54 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:50,600 it. And it's important, I think that as we start talking about, and we start diving into this, 55 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:56,880 that we let our minds be drawn to the healing powers, let our hearts be drawn to the healing hope 56 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:05,200 that can come as we deepen that relationship. Yeah, well, recovery and repentance, Scott, are 57 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:15,120 her so intertwined, they're inextricably, I think, connected and hard to separate. And I don't want 58 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:23,960 to minimize or take away from from the word recovery, as it's used by you and others with 59 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:32,840 addictions. But we, we all repentance is is really a system of recovery. You know, repentance is 60 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:41,880 recovering our lost relationship with the Savior, our lost identity, knowing who's we are, who we 61 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:54,560 belong to. You know, repentance is recovery and recovery, whatever your religious leanings are, 62 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:03,080 or beliefs or tenants that you believe in, recovery is a process of of turning around. Yeah, 63 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:12,360 of changing. Yeah, exactly. And whatever higher power you believe in. But we're so grateful, as 64 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,760 members of the Church of Jesus Christ, we already say, it's to know that that higher power for us 65 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:26,840 is a Savior and Redeemer who not only gives us the power to do that, but who suffered for it. And 66 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:33,400 that that suffering in the in the deepest level, Scott, when we talk, we talked all about the 67 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:40,880 Atonement of Jesus Christ, that infinite, intimate Atonement of Jesus Christ. But ultimately, it 68 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:47,600 brings us when you understand the suffering of Jesus Christ, it brings you a level of gratitude. 69 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:56,560 And that gratitude, Scott, I don't know where gratitude is in the 12 steps, but gratitude is 70 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:04,440 the beginning of desire. And gratitude is what changes us in our relationship with Him. And if 71 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:10,440 you want to not even getting into the divine relationship with Savior, with our Heavenly 72 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:16,520 Father, with the Holy Spirit, I was thinking about this the other day with my eternal companion 73 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:25,160 in sweetheart Chris, that my love for her, and the desire that I have for her, as an eternal 74 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:33,520 companion, that desire of love that I have for her is based upon my gratitude for her, the 75 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:43,400 sacrifice near death experiences that she went through to give us five biological children, 76 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:50,480 one adopted child who has lots of challenges and problems, and then to give birth to three 77 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:58,920 stillborns. And the suffering that she has been through, the sacrifice that she has made for 78 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:09,240 me and for our family gives me a level of gratitude that connects us forever. My desires are to 79 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:18,920 her. But honestly, there are so many who, if they don't have sufficient gratitude, they lose that 80 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:26,920 feeling of need for, appreciation for, love for, they're not drawn towards. 81 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,160 Or dependence on. 82 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:38,520 Yeah, gratitude for Jesus Christ who paid the price of my sins, who suffered for me, 83 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:46,840 not only suffered for me, but suffered because of me. It gives me a level of gratitude which 84 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:52,640 brings me desire, Scott, to do what's right and to stop doing what's wrong. 85 00:09:52,640 --> 00:10:02,120 This idea of gratitude is so important. And it's universally important. I'll be bold enough to say 86 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,440 that. Right? Yeah, no, it is. It doesn't matter what your religion is. And it doesn't matter if you 87 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:14,640 acknowledge or don't acknowledge the power by which all these things come. It's still Jesus Christ. 88 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:20,840 You know, I mean, and I get that and I don't mean to sound arrogant about that or, you know, 89 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:27,360 off-putting about that because and hopefully it's not. But my belief literally is that even if you 90 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,440 don't believe in Jesus Christ, any good that you're getting is still coming from him anyway. 91 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:38,440 Well, you know, and he's the Creator because he's the Creator, the Redeemer, the Savior, 92 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:44,880 the Redeemer, the Advocate, all of those things and all of that. And that gratitude part of it 93 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:52,240 deepens our desires, sure. And because that's such a true principle, that principle is one of the 94 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:59,280 overarching principles in any recovery program that really helps to people to get sober, 95 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,080 to stay sober, and to, you know, continue on. One of the first things I'll do, well, 96 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:09,280 actually, let me put it this way. I called a sponsor yesterday. I was a little bit troubled 97 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,080 about some things that's going on with my family. You know, I want to go Scott Durfey on it and 98 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:19,280 take control of everything and make everybody toe the line and, you know, do this and do that. 99 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,320 And what's your problem? If you could just see it the way I could see it, you know, 100 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,800 and those types of things. And in this, well, Mike, he said to me, he says, 101 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:35,480 Scott, what are you grateful for right now? Really? Yeah. Yeah. And this is a situation where we, 102 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,320 you know, and for me, you know, he helped me to remember the deep gratitude I have for Deb, 103 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:46,640 my wife, you know, and that she's really my family, you know, and everything builds around that. 104 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:54,760 And in this gratitude, it's not only helps focus our minds, David, on things that are more positive 105 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:00,120 than they would be otherwise, our minds focused on otherwise. But it also invites the spirit 106 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:06,280 because out because when we're acknowledging from whence these blessings come, or even if we're 107 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,920 just seeking from whence these blessings come, and we're not 100% sure even maybe, 108 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,440 you know, I still invite the spirit, the spirit of confirmation, the comforter, the all of the 109 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,760 blessings that come to us as and we've talked and we'll continue to talk, we'll get into this in a 110 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:28,160 lot more detail upcoming here. But the the effects, and that's what we're going to be getting into, 111 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,440 the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that come through His Atonement, the power that 112 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,160 comes through His Atonement, they're administered to us by the spirit of the Holy Ghost. The 113 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:44,360 administration of the Atonement is one of the main principle. He is the messenger and the 114 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:52,160 administrator of the powers of Christ and the Atonement in our life. And when we feel that, it 115 00:12:52,160 --> 00:13:00,000 helps us. No doubt. Okay, so you've told me before, Scott, you keep a I keep a gratitude 116 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,160 journal. You keep a gratitude journal and you've got that from the 12 steps. Yeah, well, that's 117 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:10,520 actually step 10. And it's not a gratitude journal per se. I mean, I use a gratitude journal as an 118 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:17,240 extension of and so do the guys that, you know, I use me for sponsorship, kind of do this same 119 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:23,480 thing, you know, so step 10, step 10, we're getting way ahead here. But step 10 simply says, I 120 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:30,160 continue to take personal inventory. In other words, I continue to inspect my life. And when I'm 121 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,280 wrong, I promptly admit it, you know, and who do I promptly admit it to? Well, that depends, you 122 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,040 know, this is again, part of that repentance process, that recovery process that you're talking 123 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,280 about here, that's made available to us through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. But but as a part of 124 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,040 that, you know, sometimes, and we'll talk about this eventually. And I know we did earlier in the 125 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:54,400 year to what focus is so important and what we focus on expands. And so if I'm only always focusing 126 00:13:54,400 --> 00:14:00,960 on everything I'm doing wrong, you know, that just doesn't suit that doesn't just a lot that doesn't 127 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,600 align with I think the spirit, right? I mean, it's important for me to acknowledge it. It's 128 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,920 important for me to admit it. It's important for me to repent of it. That's all part of my 129 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:16,160 prop repentance process, not steps, but process, we'll get to that too. But but but but because 130 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:22,440 of that, I do always make a list of what I'm grateful for that day. And I try not to duplicate. 131 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:29,440 It's so easy to duplicate. But well, I it's it's a power, it's gratitude itself is a power. There's 132 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:38,800 an energy about it that that changes our desires and changes what we love and changes what we 133 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:46,080 focus what we choose to focus on. I how cool was it? How many times did they quote the scripture 134 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:52,880 in general conference? Look unto me. Yeah, in every thought. I started to keep track of that. 135 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,600 That's your that's one of your favorites. I know I love that so many times in this 136 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,480 podcast. I every time I heard it in general conference, which was multiple times my ears 137 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:10,040 perked up and I smiled and thought, oh, thank you. I'm so thankful. Yeah. So Scott, I all of our 138 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:17,480 listeners need to consider their all of their relationships relationship with the and if it 139 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:27,560 is insufficient, if it's not what you would like it to be, my testimony and invitation to you is to 140 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:35,320 consider where you're at in your level of understanding for and gratitude for 141 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:44,280 what what our Heavenly Father has sacrificed for us in giving us his son. I hope I hope during 142 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:50,520 Easter last week I was thinking a lot about the sacrifice of the father Abraham sacrificing, you 143 00:15:50,520 --> 00:16:00,120 know, the metaphor of Abraham and Isaac and and the father sacrificing giving us his only begotten 144 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:08,600 beloved son as a sacrifice for all of us. That should that should increase our gratitude for 145 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:19,400 him, our father and then to understand the excruciating suffering and the loving 146 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:27,240 willingness of the Savior to suffer for us. My goodness, if you understand the Atom of Jesus 147 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:34,360 Christ, you will be filled with gratitude and in the wake of that gratitude Elder Scott says, 148 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:43,720 it will provide the highest motivation or desire to do what's right and to be a follower 149 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:52,680 or disciple of Jesus Christ. And as we as we think about our relationships with our families, 150 00:16:53,720 --> 00:17:00,520 why is it that sometimes we let these little things ruin our relationships with our 151 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:11,960 family when we have so much to be thankful for if we could see the the sacrifice that our parents 152 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:19,720 make for us. They're not perfect. None of us are. And if people could just understand and 153 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:26,360 feel more gratitude for those who they should be close to, I think it would turn their hearts 154 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:33,160 towards those individuals and be life changing. So just that one principle. I remember President 155 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:40,040 Faust said that gratitude is is not just a good principle to live by, but it's a 156 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:49,560 principle of salvation and exaltation. Oh, yeah, you can't be exalted without without having gratitude. 157 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,160 Well, of course, I agree with that, but I hadn't thought of that before you do you want to expand 158 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:58,520 on that a little bit. It's a if you don't have if you don't have gratitude, you're not going to have 159 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:06,280 the sufficient relationship or humility, meekness or dependence upon our Heavenly Father, our Savior, 160 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:11,720 the Holy Spirit that you need in order to go live with them to be become like them. Yeah. 161 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:22,760 It's it's really gratitude is the power, I think, behind our desires to become like them. Yeah. 162 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:29,320 Yeah. It's the it's the power behind our feeling of love, right, that we have for them. It's 163 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:39,400 the highest form and level of love. You know, it's, you know, what divine love. Yeah. You know, 164 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,240 what I've noticed gratitude also does is it deepens my desire to get to know him. 165 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:53,080 Yeah. You know what I mean? I often our hearts. It does. Yeah. And I just find myself. I was 166 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,880 telling Deb last night, I said, I think I'm going to go get a degree in religious studies. 167 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:04,920 And she's like, well, okay, you know, because I just I'm probably not going to do that. I mean, 168 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,160 that's a bold statement to put out there and everything like that. But but what I but what 169 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:17,240 I do love is I just can't get enough of learning about him. Last night, I was studying Romans 5 170 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:26,440 again. And I just love so much to learn about the Savior and all that he is not all that he was, 171 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:33,960 but all that he is and still to me in my life. And that's really sweet. I was I was I'd actually 172 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:40,760 applied and was going to get a doctor of doctor of theology back in Minnesota. Yeah. University of 173 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:49,240 St. Thomas private Catholic school in St. Paul, Minnesota. And then I was asked by Salt Lake 174 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:54,520 to be an area director over some reason institutes which required so much traveling covering 10 175 00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:02,360 states of I had 10 states in my area and I was gone 99 a year and it was just more than I could 176 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:11,000 have. I couldn't have done both. So I I've always wanted yeah, well, it's just that is theology 177 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:17,080 from from really another another university, right? Yeah, something like right. Yeah. 178 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:25,000 St. Thomas or yeah, go to the these. I think Yale and Harvard may have actually they do have 179 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:32,440 Divinity schools. Yeah, schools of theology. Yeah, it's cool. And so anyway, we're a lot of like that 180 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:38,600 way, Scott. And we share a lot of things even though you were talking about our different paths, 181 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:46,200 you know, I've thankfully I haven't had this some of the experiences that you've had to go through. 182 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:54,120 And yet how awesome the lessons that you've learned that have blessed so many. And as you were 183 00:20:54,120 --> 00:21:00,280 talking about your experiences with addiction and recovery, I was thinking of the Scripture in 184 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:07,320 Isaiah 61 verse three, you know, beauty for ashes. You're an example of that Scott, that's the work 185 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:14,440 of the Savior and the Holy Ghost in your life administering the atonement in your life. But 186 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:22,600 that's that's what we're really talking about is receiving beauty out of ashes. And as we as we 187 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:30,520 move into the different aspects and effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, my prayer is and hope 188 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,800 is for all of us to increase our gratitude, our understanding. I think maybe understanding 189 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:47,160 precedes gratitude, our understanding and level of gratitude for Jesus Christ and the gift, 190 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:54,520 the infinite intimate gift of the atonement in our life. Yeah, you say I think understanding 191 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:59,560 precedes gratitude, I think it does to a degree. But then I think the more gratitude we have the 192 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,360 deeper it's like it's a helix, right? Yeah, talk about the power of faith is similar to that, you 193 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:09,880 know, like the helix. Yeah. So it just keeps continuing upward. Yeah, absolutely. I'm still 194 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:18,760 trying to understand it. And my gratitude I know is still growing. Pray it always will. Yeah. Well, 195 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:28,360 so Scott, there are conditional and unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 196 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:36,440 You know, almost all the powers that are available to us through Jesus through because of Jesus Christ 197 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,600 through his atonement, there are conditional and unconditional aspects of it. There are some things 198 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:50,200 that we absolutely have to do in order to receive the powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ in 199 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:56,680 our life. And there are other things that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, powers, 200 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:09,560 mercies, grace and gifts just flow into our lives unconditionally. And it is the atonement of Jesus 201 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:17,800 Christ perfected the plan of redemption of the Father, the plan of happiness, the plan of mercy. 202 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:24,520 There are 13 different titles of the plan in the Book of Mormon alone. And and the atonement of Jesus 203 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:32,440 Christ perfected that perfect plan so that all things would be in equilibrium. All things would 204 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:44,200 be fair. And so as we as we get into this, I think that it's it's probably necessary that in 205 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:52,200 general conference and in Sunday school classes and in seminary and institute courses, 206 00:23:52,200 --> 00:24:00,200 they spend about 80% of the time talking about the conditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus 207 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:07,240 Christ, how we need faith in him, that's a choice, and that's conditional how we need to repent. 208 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:14,440 That's obviously a choice and optional and something that we have to take responsibility 209 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:23,160 and requires action on our part right participating in the ordinances. That's a choice that we make 210 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:32,040 receiving whether you receive the Holy Ghost or you don't receive it is all all those are options 211 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:40,200 that we have to make conscious choices in order to receive the blessings. But there are so many 212 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,800 other blessings that come into our life because of the atonement of Jesus Christ without us doing 213 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:54,040 anything. I remember Brother Robert J. Matthews who wrote the Bible dictionary telling a group of us 214 00:24:54,040 --> 00:25:00,520 that he had heard a man recently in a testimony meeting, which he attended say, 215 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,520 if we don't repent, the atonement of Jesus Christ does nothing for us. 216 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:13,640 And Brother Matthews said, I wanted to stand up and scream. Yeah, I wanted to run up to the 217 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:23,240 pulpit and say that's not true. But so many people I think in the church think or don't appreciate 218 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:31,960 or understand or have sufficient gratitude for all of the unconditional aspects of the atonement 219 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:38,360 of Jesus Christ in our life. And I honestly believe Scott that the most important aspects 220 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:43,000 of the atonement of Jesus Christ are the unconditional ones. Because when I consider the 221 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:52,920 unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, Scott, I am filled with gratitude and 222 00:25:52,920 --> 00:26:02,680 desire, which then help me to go through and fulfill my role and my responsibilities in 223 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:11,400 receiving the conditional blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ in my life. So I think we should 224 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:18,680 begin if it's okay talking about the unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 225 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,680 Yeah, I think that's a great place to start. And as we do this, I'll invite us all, ourselves, David, 226 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:30,600 and our listeners, I'll invite us all to search, even though maybe we've had this experience before, 227 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,760 maybe we already know everything that we're grateful for about the atonement of Jesus Christ. 228 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,920 But as we talked about these unconditional parts, these unconditional blessings that come to us as 229 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:48,200 from the atonement of Jesus Christ and Christ's power through that, I invite us all to reconsider, 230 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,360 you know, maybe have a fresh look at how great is that blessing in my life and where do I see it. 231 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,800 Let's not just take for granted that our past experience will suffice us through this. If we 232 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,440 really want to get out of this discussion, what I think is available for us to get out of this 233 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,120 discussion, I would invite us all to kind of take that approach. Yeah, thank you. And maybe a few 234 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:16,920 journal entries would be helpful, right? You know, for people to write down and take a moment at least 235 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:25,720 and pause, consider and meditate upon where they have seen and where they have received the 236 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,880 unconditional blessings. You know what, I would have Christ in their life. I would love it if we 237 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,480 could get a couple of emails, maybe. Oh, yeah, those lines, you know, we if you're so inclined to 238 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:44,600 share and if you'd like us to not share it on air here or what have you, just to make sure you 239 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:50,520 include that. But you can reach us at he redeems us at gmail.com still. Yeah, thank you. 240 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:59,480 Before I jump right into the unconditional aspects of the atonement of Christ, 241 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:08,280 I want to just say that as we talk about this, that there are, I think, basically 242 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:15,160 three or four basic powers. When we talk about the powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ, 243 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:21,160 I think we're think we're really describing three or four different specific powers that can be 244 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:29,640 described. One of those is the redemptive powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ. One of them, 245 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:37,400 second one is the enabling powers. We'll describe these in more detail. The enabling powers 246 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:48,200 of the atonement of Christ. Third, the compensatory blessings, the compensating powers of the atonement 247 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:55,240 of Jesus Christ in our life. And the fourth one, I would say, are the healing and cleansing powers 248 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:03,480 of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. And Scott, I think it's just really helpful for us. 249 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:09,320 And there are probably more. I don't want to, I'm sure there are many more infinite powers 250 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,200 that flow into our lives. Well, those are four pretty, pretty good categories. Yeah, 251 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:21,240 categories and many, many blessings under each of those. But as we talk about the unconditional 252 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:27,320 and conditional aspects, I think we're mostly speaking here, the unconditional aspects at 253 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:35,720 least of the atonement are the redemptive powers of the atonement in our life category. Number one, 254 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:46,360 the redemptive powers are overcoming unconditionally the two deaths that we have described that came 255 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:53,560 into the world because of the fall of Adam and Eve. And unconditionally, Scott, those are covered 256 00:29:53,560 --> 00:30:03,480 by the atonement of Jesus Christ. The first negative was that Adam and Eve and all of us are cut off 257 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:11,320 from God. We're out of the presence of God when we come to mortality, celestial world, fallen earth. 258 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:22,840 That will be unconditionally overcome when we return to their presence to be judged. And all 259 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:31,720 will return to their presence to be judged. I know the scriptures that say no unclean thing can dwell 260 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:41,000 in the presence of God, but all of Heavenly Father's children will return to His presence to be judged. 261 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:46,760 We'll look at scriptures on that in a minute. The second, the second unconditional universal 262 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:57,880 consequence of Christ's suffering is the resurrection of all mankind, that all mankind would overcome 263 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:10,360 physical death. So Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice unconditionally overcame death and 264 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:18,760 hell. Death meaning the death of physical death, separation of body and spirit and hell, which is 265 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:26,360 spiritual death or cut off from righteousness, cut off from God. We're all going to be resurrected, 266 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:35,240 all mankind, and we're all going to return to their presence to be judged. I think as 267 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:41,160 Latter-day Saints we're pretty clear on the idea of a universal resurrection. I think my favorites 268 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:50,120 versus on that are in Alma chapter 11, verses 40 through 44. There are many other passages, but 269 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:56,040 that's my favorite. If our readers want to want to read that and ponder that, it's also taught, 270 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,240 I think, in the Bible, even though we're pretty unique as members of the Church of Jesus Christ 271 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,200 Latter-day Saints among Christians to believe in a universal resurrection, I think it's taught in 272 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:15,480 the Bible in 1 Corinthians 15 through 22 as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all 273 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:26,440 be made alive. But we're not so clear in our church or any other church about this doctrine that all 274 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:32,520 will return to the presence of God. So we've read this before, but let's turn to Helaman. 275 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:45,720 In the Book of Mormon, Scott, in Helaman chapter 14, the teachings and prophesies of Samuel the 276 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:55,080 Lamanite, powerful witness of the Savior who, gratefully, the Savior told the compilers of the 277 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,960 Book of Mormon that they'd left his teachings out and that they needed to be in there. And I 278 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:04,360 think one of the reasons that he wanted them in there so bad is because of chapter 14. 279 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:14,440 Because chapter 14, Samuel gives a very powerful discourse on the atonement of Jesus Christ. 280 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:21,880 So let's, I don't know, Scott, let's pick up with 13. Okay, would you? And let's start reading 281 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,880 Helaman 14 verse 13. And if you believe on his name, you will repent of all your sins, 282 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,760 that thereby you may have a remission of them through his merits. Okay, so 283 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,360 number one, you got to believe in his name. You got to repent of your sins. This is all 284 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,440 conditional stuff. Well, and I think it's important and we'll come back to this, but it's important 285 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,720 that the remission of those sins come through his merits, not ours, no meritocracy on our part. 286 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:53,720 Yeah, everyone should circle the word his little pronouns really important, his merits, not ours. 287 00:33:53,720 --> 00:34:01,480 Now skip to 15. For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come. Yea, it behoove with him 288 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:08,040 and becomeeth expedient that he dyeth to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby 289 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:13,240 man may be brought into the presence of the Lord. Okay, so there's a resurrection, 290 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:19,720 a resurrection, unconditional, and because of the resurrection, all mankind will be brought into the 291 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:27,000 presence of the Lord. He clarifies verse 16. Yea, behold, his death bringeth to pass the resurrection 292 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:34,280 and redeemeth all mankind from the first death, that spiritual death. For all mankind by the 293 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:40,120 fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord are considered as dead, both as to things 294 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:46,840 temporal and think spiritual. And in 17, but behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth 295 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:52,840 mankind. Yea, even all mankind and bringeth him back to the presence of the Lord. 296 00:34:52,840 --> 00:35:01,320 Wow. I mean, that's really, this is taught in many places in the Book of Mormon. It's got about 297 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:10,920 10 times in the Book of Mormon. And yet it's just so crystal clear here in Helman chapter 14. It just 298 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:17,480 can't get more clear than that, right? Christ redeemeth all mankind and bringeth them back into 299 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,000 the presence of the Lord. So if someone were to ask you, Scott, are you redeemed? Yea, absolutely. 300 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:33,160 Yea, we're all redeemed. Jesus Christ redeemed all mankind. Not just because of the resurrection, 301 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:41,640 but we will go back into the presence of our Heavenly Father. Verse 18, just maybe, 302 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,720 let's read verse 18. Alright. Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance. So that's 303 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:53,800 conditional. That's whosoever repenteth, the same as not hewn down and cast into the fire. 304 00:35:53,800 --> 00:36:00,120 But whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire. And there cometh upon them, 305 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:08,760 again a spiritual death. Yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining 306 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:15,320 to righteousness. So even though we're all redeemed, all mankind, through the atonement of Jesus 307 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:24,440 Christ are redeemed. Unconditionally, if we haven't repented, if we haven't taken care of the things 308 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:31,160 that we can take care of, that we have control over, if we're still unwilling to repent, if we're 309 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:41,160 not willing or don't have the desire to follow Jesus Christ, then we will again experience 310 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:48,600 spiritual death. And we will go to either a lesser kingdom of glory, even then we'll be in the presence 311 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:54,280 of a member of the Godhead. If you go to the terrestrial kingdom, Jesus Christ reigns over 312 00:36:54,280 --> 00:37:00,920 the terrestrial kingdom, the Holy Ghost reigns over the terrestrial kingdom. Those only those, 313 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:10,120 Scott, who suffer complete spiritual death will be sons of perdition. I mean, they go to a place 314 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:17,880 called Alder Darkness, where they become the children of Satan. And so, I mean, think of the 315 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:26,920 mercy and the grace in all of that. Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice, having through his sacrifice, 316 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:37,720 met all of the demands of justice, having suffered for all the sins of all mankind, 317 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:46,680 whether repented of or not, Scott, Jesus Christ has redeemed us. That's unconditional. 318 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:57,000 Whether we receive it or not, and are exalted by it or not, that's that's on us. That's our 319 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,440 choice. It depends on our qualification for that. Yeah, can earn it. I like that word, 320 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:09,560 qualification. We qualify for it. We can never in this life or the next earn it. So that's the 321 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:16,680 redemptive powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I wish all of us when we would think 322 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:26,680 of the question, am I redeemed? We would see a big in caps. Why E s exclamation mark, exclamation 323 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:34,920 mark, exclamation mark, the enemy, right? It's his job to cloud our vision to cloud our judgment to 324 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:42,200 help and accuser at a great accuser. We have been greatly accused in the church and out of the church. 325 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,840 And we sometimes like to complicate this. And I think that we I think that we do the Atonement of 326 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:55,720 Jesus Christ to disservice when we do that. This is not meant to be anything but a loving invitation 327 00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:01,080 and an acknowledgement of our redemption. I mean, that there's some qualification and we'll get into 328 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,800 that. You know, the qualification part will come to the conditional parts of the Atonement of Jesus 329 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,360 Christ and they come through repentance. But even that word, David, and we'll talk about this, I know 330 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,800 in another podcast in the future, but even that word is extremely misunderstood. Right. You know, 331 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,680 sometimes I hear the word and in the past, especially I see that word repentance and it would be 332 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,480 just like, Oh my goodness, there's no possible way I have so much to repent from because I didn't 333 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:32,280 understand the process by which that meant. And, you know, so hang with us as we start to take on 334 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:40,360 some of these ideas that may be, you know, maybe not completely comfortable. But as we as we start 335 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:46,760 talking and as we actually continue talking about these things, fill the spirit, don't fill the 336 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,640 resistance, fill the spirit. I think most of our listeners, Scott, think of Jesus as their redeemer, 337 00:39:51,640 --> 00:40:01,880 but they don't feel redeemed. Yeah. That's just, if he's our redeemer, yeah, if you, if you believe 338 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:09,080 Jesus Christ is your redeemer, yeah, then why in the heck would you not think that you're redeemed? 339 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:15,160 Yeah. If you're not redeemed, then he ain't your redeemer. That's right. I just, oh, 340 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:23,960 it, and we think of him as our savior. Is Jesus Christ your savior or not? Yeah. But then we think, 341 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:30,680 but have I been saved? It's kind of the same thing, right? Definitely. Yeah. Now, again, 342 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,880 being exalted or what kingdom of glory we end up in. That's a different conversation. That's a 343 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:42,600 totally different thing. That gets down to the conditional aspects. We're focusing right now 344 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:51,480 on the unconditional aspects of the atonement of Jesus Christ who has redeemed and saved all of 345 00:40:52,360 --> 00:41:00,120 God's children in overcoming the spiritual, the first death, spiritual death, 346 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,680 brought into the world by Adam and Eve and their transgression, and the second death, 347 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:14,200 which is the physical death. There is a, are we saved from death? Yes. Are we saved from hell? 348 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:24,360 Yes. Unconditionally. After that, there's some choices you need to make, which will affect where 349 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:32,520 you maybe spend the rest of your eternity. So that's number one, the redemptive powers 350 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:38,920 of our Redeemer, the enabling powers. Wait, just a second. Before we get to the enabling powers, 351 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:44,920 I want to talk just one more thing about the redemptive powers as specifically as it relates to 352 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:54,600 the physical death. Okay. So, you know, we think of these powers and blessings coming to us in a 353 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,480 life after this one. I can't wait till I can participate in that blessing. I can't wait till 354 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:05,560 I can feel the fullness of that blessing in my life. I can't wait and we see that as some maybe 355 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:12,600 future event. Yeah. Anytime, and I'm going to specifically talk about the physical death 356 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:18,760 redemption here right now. Anytime we're healed from any kind of physical malady. Anytime we have 357 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,680 a sickness and we're healed from that. Anytime we break a bone and we're healed from that. Anytime 358 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:31,080 we have any kind of mental illness and we feel relief or reprieve from that. Anytime, and the 359 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:36,840 list goes on ad nauseam, I get that. But anytime any of those healings come, that's because of the 360 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:42,760 redemptive powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Yes. And I would, and this gets into a little 361 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:50,120 bit, Scott, I think the compensatory powers of Jesus Christ, someone who is born with physical 362 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:57,320 ailments and maybe they're not completely healed from them. But in the next life, they will receive 363 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:03,720 compensatory blessings because of them. Even in this life, they'll probably receive, for sure they 364 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:11,080 will. Even in this life, they receive compensatory blessings and powers from it. I saw a documentary 365 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:24,280 about this unbelievable Japanese pianist, Noku, as he goes by, and won the prestigious world 366 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:30,840 championship like when he was 18 years old, and he's totally blind. And it was so interesting to 367 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:39,640 watch this documentary on him and the compensatory powers and blessings of light, even though he's 368 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:50,360 blind, that he received in his life, because he was blind, how he could see things that we, 369 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:58,600 that we who can see, will never see. I mean, those are some of the compensatory blessings 370 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:04,600 that I think those who have physical ailments receive in this life before they're ever resurrected. 371 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:12,280 But in this life or the next, there will be these healings and compensatory powers that 372 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:20,440 unconditionally flow into our lives. Maybe Scott, there are some cases, probably more than not, 373 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:27,320 where some people are healed because of their faith, which is a choice, and that's conditional. 374 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:34,040 It's conditional whether people receive blessings and have faith to receive those blessings, and 375 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:42,760 have faith or the power of faith to be able to really tap in to those healing powers through 376 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:49,560 the Atom of Christ. So some of that's conditional. But much of it is unconditional. 377 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:55,080 And I said that, talking about the redemptive powers, but now that I think about it, and you 378 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,680 bring it to my attention, the compensatory blessings come through that too, but we're 379 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:03,240 going to talk about the enabling blessings. Well, those two can come as part of that. 380 00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:10,280 Yes. Some of those are no and unconditional, right? Yep. No doubt. I think of the all of the 381 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:16,520 examples in the Book of Mormon of individuals, Nephi, and you have a Limheine is group, 382 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:24,040 Baalman is group. There's there's many examples of this. And you can look up, you can look up 383 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:31,000 the phrase in the strength of the Lord, and follow the enabling powers, which is really 384 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:38,760 also associated with the term grace. We use the term grace to describe the enabling powers 385 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:46,040 of Christ in our life to be able to do things that we would not have the strength to do alone. 386 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:54,040 And many examples of that in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and in church history and 387 00:45:54,040 --> 00:46:01,640 in our own personal life, Scott, of how Christ has strengthened us and how we are able to do 388 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:09,320 things in the strength of the Lord, how we are able to carry burdens. Maybe the burdens won't be 389 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:16,920 less, but our backs will be strengthened. That great example in the Book of Mormon, 390 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:23,960 how they their their backs were strengthened to carry their burdens. That that's the that's the the 391 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:30,200 grace or the enabling powers of Christ that are available to us in our life. And I know some of 392 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:38,760 those are unconditional, and some are conditional as well, depending upon our faith in asking for them. 393 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:46,760 Or sometimes people who don't know who to ask or don't even know that maybe there is a God 394 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:52,520 or other people who've never heard of Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father takes all of that into 395 00:46:52,520 --> 00:47:00,680 consideration. And many of those individuals are blessed with grace every day to carry to carry 396 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:06,920 their burdens. Heavenly Father doesn't have, you know, really Scott, he gives grace to every all of 397 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:17,000 his children. Sometimes conditional, sometimes unconditional. So that's right, the physical, 398 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:24,680 all the physical elements and healings and all of that are part of the powers and blessings of 399 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:31,240 the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. One of my other favorite unconditional aspects of the 400 00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:38,200 Atonement of Jesus Christ, Scott, which is somewhat connected to the to the resurrection and to this 401 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:52,760 redemptive power is all little children who die before the age of accountability. And I don't think 402 00:47:52,760 --> 00:48:01,080 that's a chronological number or in years, but is is associated with their their mental and 403 00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:10,440 intellectual and other abilities. All little children or all children, they could be not even 404 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,960 little, they could be adult children, all children who die before the age of accountability, 405 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:26,360 are unconditionally alive in Christ and are not only redeemed, not only saved, but are exalted, 406 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:33,080 Scott. Yeah, not just little children, but all that were without the law. Yeah. Well, yeah, who were 407 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:40,120 not accountable in the law and who will after this life receive the law with full purpose of 408 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:47,000 heart. Yeah, we find that actually in Moroni chapter 8 verse 22. Let me just read it for behold, 409 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:53,160 that all little children are alive in Christ, and also that they are without they that are 410 00:48:53,160 --> 00:49:00,520 without the law for the power of redemption, comeeth to all them that have no law, wherefore, 411 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:08,120 he that is not condemned or he that is under no condemnation cannot repent and into such baptism 412 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:14,120 availeth nothing. Yeah. And verse 12, Scott, I I've told this experience before, so I'll just 413 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:20,920 tell it real briefly here, but I was a teacher at the old missionary home in Salt Lake City years 414 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:27,080 ago, having been called to do that right after my mission by by then elder Thomas S. Monson, 415 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:32,200 and I taught with a companion elder Hanson from Salt Lake City every Tuesday morning, 416 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:38,680 and I heard this experience for I don't know how many. Well, I was there for over two years, so 417 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:44,680 they and tell they moved the old missionary home down to Provo and called it the missionary training 418 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:52,520 center. Anyway, I heard the story of him as a missionary in Canada, going to a little white 419 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:59,720 house down some dark lane last house before it got dark, knocked on the door. And as he's 420 00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:06,920 he's only been out a short time, and he hears a voice come into his mind as this impression, 421 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:18,680 like a voice into his mind, read Moroni 8 10 through 12. So he says I didn't know what that 422 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:24,360 what I didn't know what that said. So he said I unzip my scripture covers his old missionary 423 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:30,840 scripture cover and he turns to Moroni here and finds it. And a young woman opens the door and 424 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,520 he says ma'am, I have a scripture to read to you. And he reads Moroni 8 10 through 12 you want to 425 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:42,600 read that sky. Yep, you bet. Moroni 8 10 through 12 starting in 10. Behold, I say unto you that this 426 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:49,080 thing you shall ye teach repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of 427 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:54,600 committing sin. Ye teach parents that they must repent and be baptized and humble themselves as 428 00:50:54,600 --> 00:51:00,520 their little children. And they shall all be saved with their little children. And their little 429 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:06,840 children need no repentance neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling 430 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,480 of the commandments and to the remission of sins. But little children are alive in Christ, 431 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:17,880 even from the foundation of the world. If not so, God is a partial God and also a change in 432 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:25,240 God and a respecter to persons for how many little children have died without baptism. 433 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:32,840 Alive in Christ. And anyway, he reads that scripture and he never looks up until he reads 434 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:39,480 all three verses and he finally looks up and tears her streaming down her cheeks. And she said, 435 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:48,760 how did you know who sent you here? Who told you? And he said, know what? No, we're sent here by 436 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:58,840 the Lord Jesus Christ. He said, I'm from Salt Lake City in the Lord Jesus. And she wept and she 437 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:06,600 said, I've been praying for two weeks that somebody would come and tell me where my baby is. 438 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:14,440 Oh, had she lost a baby? Her baby had just two weeks before had lived for just a few hours after 439 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:21,480 birth and died. And then she had gone to her Catholic priest. And you know, this is like 40 440 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:27,720 years ago now. She went to her Catholic priest and he told her that her baby was in purgatory 441 00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:32,680 because he he hadn't been baptized. Right. And she said, I knew that couldn't be true. 442 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,400 Now in fairness to the Catholic Church, they've softened their stance and position on that. 443 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:44,200 But she said, I knew that couldn't be true. And here are these two elders 444 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:50,920 sent by the Lord tell her where her baby is that he's alive in Christ and that he's with the Savior. 445 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:58,520 And she they set up a timer husband wasn't home and they set up a time went back and 446 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:04,520 went back and taught that young couple and baptized them. And I just think this is one of the great 447 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:11,240 doctrines of the Restoration. Yeah, yeah. No one else no one else believes what we believe about 448 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:16,840 this. I mean, they I know individuals do everybody believes that if their babies die, 449 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:22,440 that they're with Jesus, of course, makes sense. Absolutely. That's just the light of Christ. 450 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:29,000 Exactly. Screaming at us. That's the light of Christ. Right. Not screaming and a still small 451 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:37,560 voice. He whispers that's true. Yeah. But but honestly, Scott, it is so clear in the doctrine 452 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:42,920 of the Restoration of the fullness of the gospel. It is taught over and over and over again. 453 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:50,280 I'm just so grateful. Now we should also make it really clear. Children are fallen and they are 454 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:57,000 lost even though they're alive in Christ. Right. And even though they're unconditionally redeemed, 455 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:03,320 saved and even exalted in the celestial kingdom, it's really important that we understand that 456 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,880 they're fallen. So let's just read that scripture, Scott. That's that's in Mosiah. 457 00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,840 Mosiah chapter three, great discourse on King Benjamin on the fall and the atonement 458 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:20,840 of Christ. And let's read verse 16. And even if it were possible, the little children could sin, 459 00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:24,760 they could not be saved. So we know that little children can't sin. 460 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:32,840 But they're still fallen. Read it. Start over. And even if it were possible that little children 461 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:39,560 could sin, they could not be saved. But I say unto you, they are blessed for behold, as in Adam, 462 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:44,840 or by nature they fall, even so the blood of Christ atoneth for their sins. 463 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:51,560 Unconditionally unconditionally. Children are fallen. But they're unconditionally saved. 464 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:59,320 Alive in Christ. That is what I think about Scott. How many little children have died? Oh my gosh, 465 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,480 you know, more than have probably made it. I mean, over the years, maybe not. Well, 466 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:11,560 really the over over 300 years ago, the infant mortality rate, meaning, meaning children who 467 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:19,960 died before they reached the age of eight was like 50%. That's the statistics I've seen. Over 50% 468 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:26,840 of God's children never made it to the age of eight. So how many people are going to be in the 469 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:31,080 celestial kingdom? They're going to be more people in the celestial kingdom than in any other kingdom, 470 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:36,840 just based on that fact alone, based on that fact, that truth, that doctrine alone, right? 471 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:45,480 It's amazing. Think about the mercy, the grace, the power, the redemptive powers of the Atonement 472 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:52,440 of Jesus Christ. Oh man, most of Heavenly Father's children are going to be exalted. Yeah, not just 473 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:59,640 saved exalted. Even though we're all redeemed, most of them even are going to be exalted. And 474 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:06,680 that's that's why, because all little children are unconditionally not only redeemed but exalted. 475 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:17,240 Well, another one, Scott, that I think is really important. And this has this has to do with maybe 476 00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:24,040 a story that I think we're about out of time. Maybe I'll wait and share that story next time, Scott, 477 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:33,080 about another aspect of the unconditional powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that I heard from 478 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:41,240 a general authority and experienced for myself on an Indian reservation in Hardin, Montana, 479 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:51,080 the Crow, the great, powerful Crow Indian reservation. I had an experience there with Elder Hugh Pinnock 480 00:56:51,080 --> 00:57:01,480 and he shared a scripture and then taught doctrine that changed my life in not only 481 00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:10,840 regards to how I how I see the Atonement of Jesus Christ, but also in how I see my human family, 482 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:21,800 my spirit, brothers and sisters. And when we understand all of the unconditional blessings 483 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:29,160 and powers that flow into our life and did the life of all of God's children because of the Atonement 484 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:40,600 of Jesus Christ, Scott, how can we not be filled with more gratitude and greater desire to follow, 485 00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:50,920 follow Jesus? It answers so many, so many questions, Scott, that are that our families are our loved 486 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:59,320 ones are the world, so many questions that they wrestle with and understanding the powers and 487 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:08,280 blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ really answers most of those questions. And so I'm really 488 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:15,960 thankful for the couple of podcasts, this one and maybe a few more to follow in which we'll really 489 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:24,760 explore all of the effects and different aspects of the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus Christ in 490 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:30,840 our life. And I'm glad that we're doing that. I think that this is not a study that should be rushed. 491 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:36,440 This is something that we should contemplate and maybe even wrestle with on our own as we 492 00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:44,520 reconcile the spirit as it bears witness to us as we can contemplate and consider where maybe our 493 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:50,760 judgment of ourselves has been off because of maybe influences that were inaccurate to our 494 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,480 understandings that have been a little bit inaccurate around the Atonement of Jesus Christ 495 00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:02,280 and the redemptive and enabling and compensatory powers that come to us from those. This is where 496 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:07,720 for me and I'm going to be bold here again and say, you know, and I believe for all recovering 497 00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,680 addicts and alcoholics, this is where the rubber starts to meet the road because it's good for us 498 00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:18,440 to know it's interesting to have an academic experience with anything. But this is where we 499 00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:24,680 start to have that experiential experience, you know, with the Atonement of Jesus Christ. This is 500 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:29,400 where we fill those powers in our own lives. This is where through our own gratitude, we begin to 501 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:36,280 magnify our desire and as that desire magnifies, we begin to create even a more enticing invitation 502 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:43,480 of the Spirit to come and bowed with us and be with us and to administer to us the things in this 503 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:51,160 life that are so evasive for so many. And you know, we're in a critical time. This is a critical 504 00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:57,080 time in the world. We listened to a conference a couple of weeks ago. We celebrate Easter last 505 00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:04,920 week or this past week and we consider and contemplate and deepen our gratitude and desire 506 01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:09,720 for things that are eternally important by doing this. I'm grateful for you, Dave. I'm grateful 507 01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:15,480 for the opportunity that we have to share this with others that I get to learn from you and that 508 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:23,080 maybe hopefully by the Spirit that somebody's lives can be touched. Well, thank you so much, Scotty. 509 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:32,040 I'm really grateful, so grateful. And my gratitude continues to grow as my understanding increases 510 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:41,240 as to the Father's plan of redemption or plan of salvation or plan of happiness. 511 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:50,040 I'm just so, so grateful that we have the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ 512 01:00:50,040 --> 01:01:01,000 in our lives and pray that our listeners will search the word, search the scriptures and 513 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:08,600 and come to receive the greater understanding and gratitude that they need to strengthen their 514 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:17,720 relationships with each other and with deity. It all comes down to that, Scot. Now, I think that 515 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:22,920 was taught in general conference by a few speakers. It all comes down to our relationship. 516 01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:30,760 The gospel of Jesus Christ is not a checklist of do's and don'ts or even a checklist of 517 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:37,800 commandments. It's more so much more than even ordinances and covenants. And the only reason 518 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:43,400 there are ordinances and covenants and commandments are to strengthen our relationship 519 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:52,360 with with Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father and to receive the Holy Ghost. So I pray that in 520 01:01:53,080 --> 01:02:00,440 all that we're doing in sharing will somehow strengthen our relationships. 521 01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:07,320 Because that's that's the one needful thing that we all have is to have a relationship with Jesus 522 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:14,680 Christ and a relationship with our loved ones that is accompanied by the spirit influence the 523 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:22,920 Holy Ghost in our life. So Lord bless all of us. I pray that he'll bless all of us to come to a 524 01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:31,160 deeper understanding and gratitude for the doctrine of Christ and in his atoning sacrifice. 525 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:41,640 And that that person that you really don't like or the meanest most wicked person that you see today, 526 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:50,200 he or she has been redeemed to and it changes how you see others. When you understand this 527 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:56,680 doctrine, Scott, they have a savior. They may not know their savior. They have a redeemer. They 528 01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:03,880 maybe haven't ever heard of him or have rejected him. But that doesn't mean they have not been saved 529 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:13,560 or redeemed because they that's unconditional. They have been saved. They have been redeemed. 530 01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:21,080 They will be resurrected. Christ suffered for them to and they will return to the presence of God. 531 01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:27,240 And then it will be their choice. And they have choices here too. I understand all of that. 532 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:34,200 I understand that. I am not a universalist. I don't believe I don't believe everyone's going to be 533 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:40,680 exalted. But Jesus Christ did the work of the Father and because of the Father's love for his 534 01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:50,200 children, he is Jesus Christ, all of our redeemer and all of our savior. And that should change how 535 01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:55,800 we see others. Yeah. And it's our prayer that you feel that about yourself and others. May God 536 01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:21,560 make it so in all of our lives. It's our prayer. We'll see you next week. Thanks everybody.