Here we are again, another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
Welcome everybody, my name's Scott Durfey joined as always by my uncle and good friend,
partner in this project here, brother David Durfey. Say hey Dave.
Hey, good to be here. So, listen everybody, it was great to have Doug and Emily Page as our
guests on as we did an interview last week. Another great example of overcoming the effects
of the fall through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. If you haven't already done so,
make sure you tune in and listen to that. And one more time, a big thank you to Doug and Emily
Page for participating in that with us, Dave. Before we jump in, Scott, a couple of things
on my mind. We talked so much about sin last time that it was funny or maybe sad. I don't know
if it was funny or sad that our podcast was labeled explicit. Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of an
interesting, I don't know if that's because we talked so much, you used the word sin so much
or no, that's because I accidentally clicked explicit. Okay, that was on your part. That was
on my side. Well, it kind of was explicit because we talked so much about sin. And as I listen back
to it, you know, I don't make any apologies for anything that we said. But I did feel bad that
I didn't say quote, Dr. In Covenants section one, you know, God cannot look upon sin with the
least degree of allowance. And we could have quoted, we could have quoted Alma, that he abhor
sin, and Nephi says the same thing. And maybe we didn't make the point strong enough as I listen
to it, as I listen back to it, that we hate sin, even though we know that was part of God's plan,
we hate it, and we should never become desensitized by it. But you know, Scott,
it's so easy to say and so hard to do, to hate sin, but love the sinner. And that includes
ourselves. Yeah. I mean, we just have to be more kind, more merciful, more, more loving towards
ourselves and others, even those who are unrepentant, even ourselves when we're unrepentant.
But we have to hate the sin and never become desensitized by it. God doesn't become ever
desensitized by it, and we shouldn't either. So we have to reach a point where we abhor it,
but we always should understand it, and that it was part of mortality, and it will always be
part of our mortality. And yet, we love the sinners. We love Christ, loved the sinners. You
know, that parable that we read, again, I think it doesn't get read enough about the publican who
beats up on his chest and, you know, cries out to God how unworthy he is. And then that Pharisee
who says, I'm glad I'm not like that. Yeah, I'm glad I'm not like that public. I'm glad I'm not
like that sinner. Yeah. That homeless man, drug addict or whatever. I mean, there are just so
many places you can go with that. But and Jesus says, well, the great lesson is that if you have
to base yourself, you become exalted. If you exalt yourself, you become a base. You will be a
based. And I think we just really need to think about that. And if there's one thing we need to be
perfect that it's seek to be perfected in our humility and meekness and our dependence, interdependence
upon Jesus Christ and in his Atonement, which I'm so excited we get to talk about today. And the
other thing is, I got a call interesting Saturday night from a former student several years ago,
but I remembered him. And he called me from Idaho and not Idaho, Ohio, and he's working on a medical
degree. He's going to be a doctor. And he called me and wanted to review some of the principles of
the class and talked about how much that course had influenced him and influence his thinking. And
now as a medical student, you know, he's in a in a ward and he's he was given an assignment to
teach the youth and he wanted to to remember and capture some of the things that he had learned in
that course about the importance of identity, knowing who and who's we are and the need that we
have for the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the powers of Christ. So it was fun to have a long
conversation with a former student. And I just want to remind all of our listeners that this is a
course. It's it's, we call it a podcast, but I hope that others will kind of see it as a course
that was taught and designed several years ago and and is now an Institute course that is taught
throughout the world and Institutes of Religion and kind of follows along the Elder Anderson's
book called the Divine Gift of Forgiveness, which has become the student manual for the course.
And as we've talked about sin, and I'm ready to put that behind a scot and talk about the Atonement
of Jesus Christ today. Interesting that you said you had that student call you. I think that's so
cool. I bet I bet it takes courage maybe from some of those guys think oh I got a call Brother
Durfee. I don't know if he'll because you know, let's let's be honest these guys, you know,
been some of them have been to your classes on multiple for multiple. Yeah, I'm gonna take
a five or six times. Yeah, and it wasn't easy for him to find me. He had to call several other
teachers to kind of get my number and they had to do some work to chase me down. And I know you've
had that experience too. You're teaching that course. Well, yeah, yeah. Well, as a matter of fact,
I you said Idaho because I actually had a student call me just yesterday from Idaho from Idaho. Yeah,
yeah. And we had a very, very sweet conversation around things too. You know, one of the this
it wasn't this one. But it does happen because of the transparency that Deb and I when we teach
that class about our own lives and about how the Atonement of Jesus Christ has had its effects
in our own lives and changing it completely. We're fairly transparent. We talk about that. We
talk about our stories a little bit, you know, as so so far as it's appropriate to do so in
that class, etc. And I think by and we give our we give our phone number, we put it on the board,
and and we extend an invitation and I've literally said, Listen, my phone rings in the
middle of the night, and I've received phone calls in the middle of the night from students
from that class as well as alcoholics and drug addicts that I sponsor in a like I have called
my sponsor in the middle of the night at times when I'm just battling with the effects of the
fall, right? Well, we talk about that and it was a really fun conversation that I had with the
the student that I had taught yesterday, he called mostly to find out if I knew about wiring for
his motorcycle, but we had we had some other really tender conversation around some other
things that were topical to the class for sure. I love though, in Deb and I taught last night,
our Institute class and we were about where we are in terms of our podcast. And we were talking
about the effects, we were talking of the fall. And because we had a lot of new students with
this last night. And so we couldn't just dive straight into the blessings of the atonement or
the events and the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, we had to kind of make that
applicable in our lives by revisiting the fall. And as we did so, man, we just had some sweet
experiences, testimonies and tears and just people are being influenced for the better because of
the because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. And to know that, you know, we talked about sin
last week, we talked about how it can tip us over you. I'm so grateful that you said what you just
said this morning about how we should we're not proponents of sin. I mean, we understand sin and
we understand that, you know, it is part of our mortal existence, but we're not here to propagate
sin. We're here to propagate the the anecdote to sin, the atonement of Jesus Christ. But I so
I'm glad you brought that up this morning. And how important that is because I love now, and we'll
do that right now. I love now that we're moving into the most important eternal doctrine that
anyone has ever known. The doctrine of Christ and and you know, there's no greater needs,
God, no greater need in the world. And I know you you could sense that in your students. And I
sensed it in you describing your class last night. There's no greater need that young adults have in
the church that older adults have in the church, and everybody in between, then to understand who
they are, who's they are. And when I when I say that, I mean, sons and daughters of God and sons
and daughters of Adam and Eve. And no greater need than to understand their need for the atonement
of Jesus Christ, and then to increase their faith and their understanding knowledge in the
atonement of Jesus Christ and learn how to access the powers available to us through the atonement
of Jesus Christ. That is singular, the greatest need in the church and in the world, really. And
and you can tell you can tell as you teach it, right, that they just their spirits just are like
sponges. And they just soak it up. And it's not just because they need it here. It's because we
had learned the importance of it in the pre existence before we were ever born. Yeah. And it's
a remembering Deb talked about that to our kids last our kids. We really seem that way. I know
you used to too. But we really seem that way. But Deb talked that talked about that to our kids
last night that you know what we are going to be talking about is really not a learning so much as
it is a remembering. Yeah, because we know this doctrine and this doctrine not only did we know
it. We subscribe to it fully as we've talked about as is evidenced by our existence in mortality,
right? Yeah, absolutely. And it's it's such an exciting time, really, a time of the year right
now that we're in Scott to be able to talk about this because we just started the lense season.
Anyway, it's exciting time of the year. Scott were the great Christian traditions that lead up to
Easter. I've always loved when I moved back to Minnesota and got close to so many great people
who were good Lutherans and Catholics and and this is such a special time for them. And I wish
that we would make it a little more special in our own traditions. In fact, I'm so excited, Scott,
about the church's announcement to have a special Easter sacrament meeting and to just have sacrament
meeting and it's always kind of been as as I don't know, it's kind of been hard for me to think that
we make such a big deal and we do so great celebrating Christmas, but we don't do so great
celebrating Easter. And it's just really exciting that the first present scene, the core of the
12th, has announced that that Easter Sunday will be a little more significant and that we'll just
have a special Easter program that day and go home and be able to spend it with our families and
think about Jesus and celebrate it in Easter. And I hope that as we get closer to that, we'll talk
more about that event and the resurrection and maybe traditions that families can have to make
the most of that. But Lent is a time, you know, it started, they don't know exactly when it started,
but around 400 AD, they start this tradition of 40 days before Easter, really 40 days before
Gethsemane, the night of Gethsemane, when the atonement begins, that 40 days before that,
they have what they call Ash Wednesday, which was recently and they put ashes, they'll
palm leaves, they burn them and they get some ashes and put them on their forehead and
and oftentimes in the symbol of the cross. And I think it's such a great tradition because there's
sacrifice involved in that, you know, they're not supposed to eat meat, they're not supposed to drink
wine, they're supposed to fast, pay tidings and sacrifice and whatever sacrifices they can make
to be able to prepare themselves for Easter week, not just Easter, Easter week. And I think this is
such a great time for us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ to do the same thing and to begin
to think now about about Easter and what we can do to prepare for Easter. And so our podcast today
will certainly lend itself to that. We started this podcast a year ago on Easter week.
Dr. Reagan.
And now it's so exciting that we're doing a second season and can talk about events leading up to
Easter week. And anyway, that's what that's what I hope that we can accomplish today.
I'm just so excited about all that Easter is that we are really coming into it. You know,
we can see the earth around us is going through its process its season. There will be a rebirth of
two four planet earth here pretty soon, especially, you know, if you live in areas like we live.
Yeah, we're covered. We are covered. We have a huge blanket of snow. We got another 14 inches or
more last night, not last night, the night before here. And just so but we'll see that
rebirth coming. And as we see that rebirth coming to the earth, that's a good reminder to me, you
know, as I see those little buds pop out as I start to smell the smell of fresh cut hay,
which is just so special to me, you know, and and all of those other barn smells that start coming
with with, you know, this time of year is just I just am so grateful for that and for that
association. But what makes that association so deep is the things that we're going to talk about.
Yeah, starting today. Well, let's let's jump in understanding understanding the fall
and understanding our need for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. There are two major aspects of the
Atonement of Jesus Christ that we'll discuss in our course. The first is the events of the Atonement
and the second are the effects is the effects of the Atonement. There are there are four events
that I would like to talk about first will this may take a week or two for us to talk about this and
and kind of pre prelude to Easter and Easter season. And then we'll talk about the effects
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the powers that flow out of his Atonement. And before we
jump into the actual four events, I just want to draw on a few quotes from the brother in
in regards to the Atonement itself and how central it is not only to God's plan, but how
central it should be in our worship and in our own personal lives. One of my favorites is elder
Boyd K. Packer, who said the Atonement of Jesus Christ is the very root of Christian doctrine.
You may know much about the gospel as it branches out from there. But if you only know the branches
and those branches do not touch that root of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, if they have been cut
free from that truth, there will be no life nor substance nor redemption in them.
Well, I really love that, Scott. And if I can just kind of paraphrase it, if we if we don't
understand the doctrine of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and it's not the center of everything that
we do. And if we if we teach or do things, and it's not somehow connected, any doctrine or
anything that we teach, if it's not connected to the Atonement of Jesus Christ, it's dead.
There's no substance. There's no redemption. We're probably wasting our time teaching it.
I used to tell when I was the director of the Institute at Utah Valley University,
I would I would tell our teachers, if if you teach any lesson that is not tied to the Atonement of
Jesus Christ or the Atonement of Jesus Christ cannot be attached to your lesson, and it's not
an important part of your lesson, then why are you teaching it? It'll be dead. There's no life.
There's no substance. There's no redemption. Even if you know we had this great class on the restoration
and there was a lesson in there to help help our students to understand some some of the
challenges and problems of our history. And one of those is the Mountain Meadows Massacre. And
I would use that as an example. If you teach the Mount Meadows Massacre and you can't figure out
how to attach the Atonement of Jesus Christ to that lesson, then maybe you shouldn't teach it.
The Atonement of Jesus Christ should be part of everything that we teach in the church. It should
be part of everything we teach in our homes. It should be a part of our daily lives. Look under
me in every thought, doubt not, fear not, behold the wounds. He implores us anyway. Scott, the Atonement
of Jesus Christ has to be attached to everything that's important to our life or it will die.
And if it's not attached to anything that we do or if it's not attached to the Atonement of Jesus
Christ, then there will be no eternity in it. There will be no substance, no redemption. So I
just think it's critical that we begin by understanding the centrality and the importance
of the focus on the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our personal lives and church life and our everyday
life. The Atonement of Jesus Christ can literally permeate every part of our lives if we make
that our focus and if we allow that to. And if we do anything different from that, then we will not
have the administration of the Atonement of Jesus Christ at work in our lives to the degree. It's
at work in all of our lives without effort to a degree, without effort. But to the degree that
we want it to be effective in our lives, to free us from sin, to free us from the bondage of self,
to free us from the effects of the physical death, our mental problems, our physical problems,
our emotional problems, to be free from all of that then. It sounds like we really should be
focusing on the Atonement of Jesus Christ and allow it and in fact encourage it to permeate every
aspect of our lives. Amen. Amen, Scott. And I just don't think you can exaggerate that.
You know, President David Oman Kaye used to always say, and this is kind of a paraphrase,
whatever you sincerely in your heart think of Christ, Jesus Christ, and I'm going to add,
and his Atonement, his birth, his life, his death, and the Atonement, it will ultimately
determine who you are, what you do, and how you live. I believe that. I believe that is literal.
Therefore, I hope that in our discussion we can help ourselves, our families, and others
to make it more of a forefront thought in our minds, in our prayers, in our lives.
One of my favorite quotes from Preach My Gospels, Scott, is the, right on page two,
of Preach My Gospel, as your understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ grows,
your desire to share the Gospel will increase. And if you'll allow me just to tweak that,
I want to repeat that quote and just make one small change. So this from Preach My Gospel page two,
with one word change, as your understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ grows,
your desire to live the Gospel will increase. I know that's true from my personal experience,
and from all the experiences I've had in any positions that I've served in the church,
in my own family, in their lives. I know that's true. And one last quote before we get into the
events of the Atonement and the events that lead up to it is Elder Richard G. Scott, who said,
pondering the grandeur of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, evokes the most profound feelings of awe,
immense gratitude, and deep humility. Those impressions can provide you powerful motivation
to keep His commandments and consistently repent of errors for greater peace and happiness.
I know that the greatest motivation, the greatest source of motivation in our lives,
to live a life of a disciple of Jesus Christ, the greatest motivation is to understand His sacrifice,
to understand what the Father sacrificed in giving us His Son, and to understand the love of Christ
in keeping the commandments of His Father, His love for His Father, His obedience,
and His love for us to be willing to lay down His life. I think my favorite scripture,
the New Testament, Scott, is John 3, 16, and 17, which says, For God so loved the world
that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,
but have everlasting life. And then verse 17 says, For God sent His Son into the world,
not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved or redeemed.
And I just know that if we would focus on that truth, we would have greater hope,
we would have greater peace, we would have greater joy in our lives. There was a time when we were
having, when I was serving as the branch president at the MTC, and we had this rash of disobedience,
and some missionaries, unfortunately, were being sent home because of some of the
things that were going on. And anyway, it wasn't very many, but it was more than should have been.
And I remember our MTC president sharing this story about him being troubled by this, and he
started to make it a matter of fasting and prayer. And so he was fasting, and he was praying, and
it was, he said on Christmas Eve early in the morning, when he was awakened by a voice or a
prompting, and he, and he wakes up and he hears like a voice in his mind, a thought, an impression.
Gratitude is the beginning of desire. You see, Scott, his great question was that he was praying
and fasting about was, why do some missionaries have the desire to be obedient? And why do some
not have the desire to be obedient and live the gospel? What is the difference? Desire is the
difference. How can I help these missionaries to have the desire to live the gospel, to be obedient?
And this was his answer. Gratitude is the beginning of desire. And he went to grab a pen and a paper
to write this down. He's sitting on the edge of his bed. And as he writes it down, gratitude is
the beginning of desire. He thinks gratitude for what? And his mind is then filled with a vision
of the atonement of Jesus Christ and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And from that point on,
we witnessed miracles at the missionary training center because he gave us instructions that we
needed to, the number one thing we were to do in the branch was to help missionaries to understand,
appreciate, and feel greater gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ. And we not only saw
increased repentance, but we saw increased obedience. And probably motivation and attitude
and everything that comes along with it. I think that if we were going to
approach today's podcast with our own question, our own question might be similar. How do we
increase our desire? And then we've received now a revelation to that question. So now,
how do we increase our gratitude if we pay attention to not just what we're hearing,
definitely more importantly than what we're hearing if we'll pay attention to what we're
feeling as we're hearing these things. Our gratitude will grow our desire along with it.
And as we do so, we'll just recognize our own sense of increased peace and faith in our own
lives as we do it. Yeah, so thank you, Scott. And I used to tell my students that if you ever
find yourself waning in your desire to live the gospel, if you find that you're kind of weak or
that the motivation isn't quite there to keep the commandments or to repent of our sins and
mistakes and errors, I can without exception tell you that what is missing in your life is
the level of gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ that you need in order to make those changes
happen. I mean, Scott, gratitude, this is President James E. Faust, a talk that he gave many years
ago, which I'll never forget. Gratitude is a principle of salvation. And without it, you cannot
be saved. So I as we as we launch into the atonement of Jesus Christ, the number one result we hope
for is not just to know the events or the effects or the what happened here and what happened there
and find an interesting new idea or two. The number one result of this should be that we are more
grateful that we understand a little bit more about the reality of what was given. And as we
as we experienced as we experienced that that gift of the atonement of Jesus Christ and receive it
that we are that we be filled with more gratitude than we've ever been filled with before.
So let's let's talk about the four events of the atonement of Jesus Christ. And I'll list them
and this will kind of be our outline and we'll see how far we get today and what we don't finish
today will we'll do next week. The first is the sinless life. The second is Gethsemane,
the Garden of Gethsemane. The third is the cross and the crucifixion what happens on the cross.
And the fourth is his death and his resurrection, the empty tomb. So again, one is sinless life,
two is Gethsemane, three is Golgotha, and four is the empty tomb. Those are the four events and places
that the atonement of Jesus Christ is fulfilled. The center of the whole plan of the whole plan of
the Father and the plan of redemption. I think one of the greatest events that we under appreciate is
the sinless life that he led and how difficult that was and what a sacrifice he made in never
sinning, Scott. He never sinned. He never gave heed to temptations. It's astounding to me and
he did not don his bulletproof vests of Godhood to reduce or lighten or to deflect
any temptation in his life. He felt greater temptation than any of us will feel and he felt all
temptation. And to its largest degree. To a greater degree than any of us ever will. And I love this
quote by by C.S. Lewis on that idea. He says, this is in mere Christianity, page 142. No man knows
how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good. A silly idea is current that good people
do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation
know how strong it can be. After all, you find out the strength of the German army by fighting
against it, not by giving in. You find out the strength of a wind by trying to walk against it,
not by lying down. A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it
would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people in one sense know very little about
badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in. We never find out the strength
of the evil impulse inside us. And I'll just add or the full extent of the fall in all of us.
Until we try to fight it. And Christ, because he was the only man who never yielded to temptation,
is the only man who knows to the full extent what temptation means.
He is the only complete realist. Well, I love that and I believe that. I believe that Jesus Christ felt
to the nth degree more temptation than any of us will ever experience. And I love how the scriptures
teach. One of my favorites in Doctrine and Covenants section 20 where it talks about,
and he never gave he he was tempted and he never gave he'd.
Wow. But not giving he doesn't necessarily always stop the temptation. I mean, I know that
after the 40 days in the wilderness being with God, that Satan came in full force.
And that Satan was allowed to tempt him and to try him and and probably Satan personally. I know
that there's lots of devils in our lives. And some are even in the the the form of friends and
other mortals. I don't sometimes I don't even think I need a devil to tempt me to do wrong.
I need a suggestion from a good friend to do wrong and I'm all over it. And so I
I Satan directly personally attacked him and had others evil men attack him all in the effort
to try to get him to just commit one little sin, dwell on one little thought too long.
I know he had he would have had evil thoughts. Temptations come to us in many forms, right?
But he never gave he to it. He never gave attention to it. He never he never dwelt on it. He never
gave into it. I know he would have felt all of the temptations of fear and and lust and pride and
all the inappropriate emotions that we feel and and all of the direct actions that he could have
he could have taken to sin to be unkind to to to do you know to do all of the bad that we know.
And he sacrificed that Scott. That was that was perhaps I mean
that was an amazing sacrifice and it would have been extremely difficult and he did not use his
Godhood to deflect it or to lessen it. We have to understand that. I think so many people think
well he was Jesus. Yeah. Well he was a God. If we really contemplate and consider it gives us
even deeper gratitude for what he did. You know we don't often talk about. I mean I don't ever
remember in a Sunday school class or in a seminary class or you know anything like that talking about
the temptations that Jesus faced. You know and we know sinless and we know that his perfection
came as with the resurrection and all those other things. We've kind of alluded to that in the past
and that's a bit of a semantics. But but to live a sinless life. You know we I think I've thought
and I think so often many of us take so for granted. Well he was Jesus. That would be easy for a guy
like Jesus. But I don't think there was anything easy about that. I think that there was definitely
some some some power that he gained that he drew from from his father and some power and the ability
that he actually had to overcome that was because of his innate divine ship his innate Godship
Godhood. But I don't I think that you know we shouldn't and I'm challenging our listeners. Don't
just gloss over this. Don't just listen and think oh yeah that's cool. Really contemplate. I think
it's important that we really contemplate this aspect of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Well I
don't think we can begin to imagine how badly Satan attacked him knowing that if he committed one sin
then the rest of his sacrifice in life is not to redeem us. It will only be to redeem him.
The vicarious aspect of the atonement of Jesus Christ would have been destroyed if he would
have sinned. It took a sinless lamb a sinless person a lamb without blemish. Only he could pay the
penalty make the punishment ransom us because he never sinned. He could offer his works and his life
in behalf of us and become our mediator and our advocate because he never sinned.
And Satan knew that. Satan realized that and Satan knew if I can just get him to sin if I can just
get him to ponder or desire to do this or to do that. I turn to the Doctrine and Covenants section
20 verse 22. He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them. Paul wrote in Hebrews that he
suffered temptations of all kinds of all kinds. So he suffered temptations.
I just don't think we can really understand the atonement of Jesus Christ and appreciate it
if we don't more fully appreciate this aspect of his sacrifice. The effort that he made and the
suffering that he experienced in the temptations of his life. This sinless holy being being
thrown into a world of hell and of all places among the people who were the most hellish and
the most wicked as Brigham Young and others have taught. The most wicked of all people who have
ever been on the earth. The only people who would ever crucify him not only on this world but all
worlds and Jesus was thrown into that place and would have experienced directly and indirectly.
All of the temptations but never sinned. I think that when we think about sinless life,
when we think about Gethsemane, Golgotha and the resurrection, it's easy for all of us. I honestly
think probably most of us if not all of us to be super grateful for what happened in Gethsemane,
to be super grateful for what happened on the cross, to be very grateful for what happened
because of the resurrection. But I don't know, Dave, that we've spent much contemplation around
our gratitude of that sinless life. That was difficult. That was beyond human capacity. So
was Gethsemane, so was the cross, and so was the resurrection. And as much as those other three
were impossible beyond human capacity to achieve, so also was the sinless life. And our gratitude
for that wasn't easy. You think that's easy? Try living a sinless hour. Right? And it would be
impossible for us. We don't have that divine father ship like he did directly. I mean, we have it,
but not directly like he did. And it did help him. But it was nonetheless difficult, I think,
that our appreciation and our gratitude for that alone, that sinless life alone. I just honestly
don't think that there's ever been a time when I've sat at the sacrament table and really contemplated
and was grateful for that sinless life. Until we started studying this. Yeah, I hope that we'll
think about that when we next time we predict the sacrament, is that we'll appreciate his sinless life.
The fact that he never gave heed to it, Scott, did not lessen it or make it just go away. No.
He felt it all, all temptation. And that leads us up. We'll review maybe the week of Easter,
all of the events of his last week. But the second now event of the Atonement of Jesus Christ
is what happens in Gethsemane. And Gethsemane, I think that in some some ways we sing of it in our
church. We certainly understand it better because of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ
God. I know that as a people that we are really that we really do a great job focusing on what
happened in Gethsemane. And I think that's wonderful that we do all of that. But I think sometimes
we don't. We think that he suffered for all of our sins in Gethsemane and that all of the suffering
in Gethsemane, that was it. Well, that wasn't it. You know, it was the suffering to not sin
going into Gethsemane. And it was the suffering coming out of Gethsemane that continued and
actually reoccurred on the cross, which we'll talk about. That's the third event. But
so he goes into Gethsemane and I nobody really understands other churches or religions, Scott,
what happened in Gethsemane. In fact, if you if you have a good friend who's a member of another
church, and if you were to get into this conversation, and if you were to say something like this,
I used to tell my students to fill in the blank in a conversation with a friend, if you were to say,
I am so grateful for Jesus Christ as my Savior Redeemer, who was willing to bleed from
fill in the blank. And they just rolls off their tongue, you know, my students.
Every poor every poor for my sins. And I would say, Where did you get that?
Where do you learn that? It's not in the Bible. We're so we're so blessed, Scott. There's only
two places in the scriptures where it describes in more detail what happens in Gethsemane. And
that's in King Benjamin's vision given to him by an angel. Angel walks him through it. And we have
that precious scripture in Mosiah chapter three, verse seven. And maybe maybe Scott, maybe we
should go there and read it. I as we get into some of these events. Now, I think it's really helpful
for us to just read the word and not to just paraphrase it. So in Mosiah chapter three, verse seven,
got it right here and low, he shall suffer temptations and pain. Did you hear that? Yeah. Yeah.
There is again, I know, right? Suffer temptations. And it says suffer temptations. It doesn't say
he experienced them. We forget that that's part of his suffering too. Yeah, right. Right. Okay.
Seven, Mosiah three, seven and low, he shall suffer temptations and pain of body and hunger,
thirst and fatigue, even more than man can suffer except it be unto death. For behold,
blood cometh from every poor, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and abominations
of his people. That I believe is the first place where Joseph Smith learned that he bled from every
poor. Now, there is a scripture in the Bible in Luke. Luke comes the closest to describing what
happened in Gethsemane. It's interesting that John doesn't say really much about it. Matthew and Mark
give us an account, which we'll look at in a here in a moment. But Luke comes probably the closest
to giving us some detail. And it's in Luke 22, Scott, verses 40 through 44. This is obviously
when they had gotten to the garden. And he says, And when he and when he was at the place, he said
unto them, pray that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn withdrawn from them about a
stone's cast and kneeled down and prayed. So he's withdrawn from Peter, James and John about a
stone's cast, takes them into the garden with him and continue saying, Father, if thou be willing,
remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done. And there appeared an angel
unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an being in agony, he prayed more earnestly.
And his sweat was as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Okay, so note
verse 44, it says his sweat was as it were, like great drops of blood falling to the ground.
Well, one day in Minneapolis, Minnesota, I had a little time one afternoon. And I had been pondering
this verse. And I wanted to kind of know how what other how other Christians saw it or how they
would interpret it. And I know there are there are different interpretations of it out there.
And anyway, so I I'm just reporting my experience. We had yellow pages back then,
the phone book. And I went to the churches and I started to call all these different churches,
major Christian churches in the Minneapolis, St. Paul, metropolitan area. And I must have called
about 30 that afternoon. And I just said, this is what I said. So I have a theological question.
Is there a pastor, minister, priest that I could visit with about a theological question? And
the secretary would usually transfer me if the minister was in. And, and I would say, hey,
I'm reading Luke 22. What is going on in verse 44? What's happening in verse 44? Then I would read
it from the King James version, they may have the King James version or another version, and we would
have a little discussion about it. And, and they would say, usually, that Jesus was suffering so
great that that the pressure of paying for our sins was so great that there were a few drops of blood
that appeared on his forehead, or that they would say that his sweat. And this was the majority of
them, Scott, that he was sweating profusely, and that his sweat was symbolic of the blood that he
would shed on the cross. The majority of them answered that way. Some of them recognized that
there was maybe a few drops of blood. And you know, there have been some medical cases. I know that
the male clinic actually reports a couple of these of medical cases where pain is so great
that in individuals may actually sweat a few drops of blood. They call it hematidrosis is the medical
the medical term for that bleeding from your poor. But no, no one understands.
No one understands that Jesus bled from every poor that basically his circulatory system somehow
collapsed and literally his burst and blood oozed from every poor the constriction of
the vessels and the veins and capillaries in his body, the pain, the anguish, the pressure.
I know that he chose Gethsemane because of the meaning of the word, which is the press,
the oil press. And this is where they would, you know, take olives and they would press them and
they would crush the olives and including the pit of the olive with these stones and oil would ooze.
And it was a perfect symbolic place of the suffering that would be pressed, the pain that would be
pressed, the stress and pressure that would be put upon Jesus Christ as he began to experience
complete spiritual death as he began to experience all of the consequences of sin in the world,
in the worlds, all of this and for three hours, for three hours, this goes on and he cries out,
of course, you know, if it be willing, let this cup pass from me. And an angel is sent,
an angel is sent and I love William and Conkies belief that that was Adam and Michael, the archangel
who was sent to Jesus to strengthen him. And so interesting that here we have the individual
who brought the fall and sin into the world, Adam and he appears to strengthen Jesus in paying
for all of the sin of the world and for all the consequences of all the sin of the world
and to pay for his spiritual death, to feel it and overcome it and to feel, you know, begin to feel
the physical pains and sicknesses and death that would eventually come to him on the cross.
Anyway, Adam comes as an angel to strengthen him. So I know it's incomprehensible, we can't begin
to comprehend really the suffering that he went through there, Scott. But I don't know, it's
overcoming to me really the when I think of it, the humility, the meekness that comes over me,
thinking that I contributed to that. You know, like again, President Faust would say he asked
in a conference talk, I wonder how many drops he bled for me. And then he wrote a whole song on that.
And anyway, Scott, I don't, I know we can't comprehend, we don't have all the all the answers
to the questions about how was it possible or how did he do it or, or, you know, we don't know
everything. But we do know that he bled from every pore and the other place in the scriptures where
we learned that, which is a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, actually a revelation to
Martin Harris through the Prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants section 19,
verses 16 through 19. For behold, I God have suffered these things for all
that they might not suffer if they would repent. But if they would not repent, they must suffer
even as I, which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all to tremble because of pain
and to bleed at every pore and to suffer both body and spirit and wood that I might not drink the
bitter cup and shrink. Nevertheless, glory be to the Father and I partook and finished my
preparations under the children of men. Wow. Those verses right there, Scott, are worth a
whole doctrine, Covenants and all the revelations received by the Prophet Joseph Smith. I love the
phrase, you know, bleed at every pore to suffer body and spirit. I believe his greatest suffering
was spiritual. Even as terrible, as awful as you can, you can't even imagine the physical to bleed
from every pore. But the real pain was, I think, in the spirit for this sinless
God to feel all of the sins. Scott, I know we're sinners, but just think of all the sins of all
the world, repented of or not, Scott, pressing upon him, him feeling the effects of all of the sins
committed in this world and others. Think of that, pressing upon this sinless being.
I mean, I think most of his physical suffering would have been caused by his spiritual suffering.
And then he says, and I would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink.
The bitter cup. Think about that a lot when I go to the temple. You know, when I go to the temple,
to places where we should be thinking about that. And there are two different times in the
endowment. And I think about that. And I look at that. And I think, wow, the cup, the bitter cup.
And glory be to the Father. He gives all the glory to the Father.
And this humility is meekness. And then he just simply says, and I per took and finished my preparations.
Well, I'm just so grateful, Scott, that for, well, I'm grateful for Jesus mostly. But I'm also
really grateful for the restoration that we can understand to a greater degree more specifically
with greater power. What really happened in Gethsemane before he ever gets to the cross and
suffers again on the cross, which we'll talk about next time.
I love that you pointed out suffered both body and spirit, and that really comes full circle to
where we were last week. And even at the beginning of this week, when we talked about the effects of
the fall, the effects of the fall affected us both body and spirit. We have a spirit separation,
and we have a body separation. And because of that separation, both become imperfect.
Because of Christ's sinless life, his life had not become unperfect. It was still had it remained
pure. It had remained godlike in all ways. Again, the perfection came later as the resurrection
took place. But however, his preparation through his sinless life so that he could answer the call
of our separation, body and spirit. And he suffered that too. Last night in our institute
class, we spend a great deal of time talking about the effects of the fall, bodily and spiritual.
And he suffered those things, both body and spirit for us. I am so grateful. I can't even begin to
express words will never in my life be able to express the gratitude and the appreciation that I
have for what he did there that day, among all the other things that we're going to talk about,
and all the other things that we've already talked about. But what he did there then, you know,
I've often, and I think maybe prompted by Elder Faust many, many years ago. But I often remember,
even in my not so sinless life, especially when my life was anything but sinless,
I often even contemplated even in my sin, Dave, when I was in my full blown addiction and my full
blown alcoholism, we've talked about how our covenants can be so strong that sometimes they can
even provide pull on us even in those times. And it did on me. And I often thought about that.
I often thought, you know, and great guilt would come with it, which was fine. And sometimes even
shame, which isn't fine. But the guilt would come sometimes because I would contemplate that. I
wonder how much of his blood was because of me. I wonder how much of his suffering was ultimately
because of me because I know he suffered the sins and the pains of the world. But he suffered them
for us individually. And I think we it's hard for us sometimes to remember that I think it's easy
for us to just think, well, he just paid for sin. He paid for sin categorically. He paid for sin
systemically. He paid for sin in all of these ways. No, he paid for sin for Scott Durfey
individually. He paid for sin and all of the troubles that come up with that for David Durfey
individually and all of our brothers and sisters and everybody else that that was done individually
for some grateful to know that today. Well, the phrase that I love, which is again unique to
restoration scripture is we refer to it, Nephi does and then Amulet. It is an infinite right
atonement. All time. All worlds. All sins by an infinite being repented of or not. It's infinite,
but I love Elder Maxwell's including the word. It is infinite and intimate. Yeah.
Yeah. The atonement of Jesus Christ. You're right, Scott is very intimate. You know, I've been impressed
and have studied multiple times throughout my life. The phrase sins of all the world. And it's
it's it's in the New Testament once and in the Book of Mormon several times and in the Doctrine
Covenants as well. Sins of all the world. I asked Brother Matthews about that and said, does that
include sins unrepentant of and he believed that it did. I believe that as well that even the sons
of perdition will someday all the sins of all the world someday, even if they have no desire to repent,
they'll they'll know every knee will bow and every tunnel confess that Jesus is the Christ
and that he suffered for them. And then they'll it's up to them if they reject it and refuse
him and refuse to receive the price that he paid the ransom he made. But I agree with you. It is
intimate. It is also infinite and grateful that we've had the opportunity today to talk to talk
about it. I think next week there's some more things about Gethsemane that we will talk about
and conclude that part that event and then we'll get into the the cross death and resurrection
for next week. And Scott, I just want to say, you know, even talking about it, you and me being
here talking about it, it brings it always affects my spirit and humbles me and it just
it just brings me this deep humility and and I know that's, you know, the spirit
humility is a gift to the spirit. And I'm thankful that I felt that today and pray that
that myself, my family and others will not not just acknowledge it and not just be disciples of
Jesus, but be deeply grateful, deeply grateful for these events of the Atonement of Jesus Christ,
which I'm so thankful for. We started our podcast today talking about how gratitude
is the beginning of desire. And I think that we I think that as we contemplate this, as we listen
to the things that we've talked about, as we feel typically we extend invitations. And I think we've
extended one or two invitations through this podcast, you know, for example, to contemplate next
time you're your gratitude next time you're sitting at the sacrament table, for example.
But I think that the spirit is the one that will provide invitations this week. I have felt that
too. And I have felt him, I have felt invited by the spirit to do certain things in my life,
because of my gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It increases my desire. And the more
gratitude I have, the more desire seems to come, more desire I have, the more grateful I am. And
I feel this helix says it lifts me closer and closer to him, because my desire is to serve him to do
what he would do to have that contrite spirit, where my will is swallowed up by his. And it's
because of his great love for each of us that that desire and that gratitude comes. Hey, I'm
grateful to be here today. I above all things above literally all things, I'm grateful for the
Atonement of Jesus Christ in my life. And I'm grateful for the Atonement of Jesus Christ in
the lives of those that I love. And I'm grateful for the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and even the
lives of those that I find difficult to love, because it is through that and through him that
even that can be reconciled in my life through my effort, because of the constant companionship
and the administration of the Holy Spirit as it is, it brings the Atonement to my life into the
lives of others. Thanks for being with us today. We are so grateful for this opportunity. We hope
that you sense, we hope that you feel, and we hope that you have been uplifted and benefited by our
efforts in being here today. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you again next week.