1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,440 Here we are again, another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,200 Welcome everybody, my name's Scott Durfey joined as always by my uncle and good friend, 3 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,200 partner in this project here, brother David Durfey. Say hey Dave. 4 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:37,040 Hey, good to be here. So, listen everybody, it was great to have Doug and Emily Page as our 5 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:43,480 guests on as we did an interview last week. Another great example of overcoming the effects 6 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:48,040 of the fall through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. If you haven't already done so, 7 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,520 make sure you tune in and listen to that. And one more time, a big thank you to Doug and Emily 8 00:00:53,520 --> 00:01:01,680 Page for participating in that with us, Dave. Before we jump in, Scott, a couple of things 9 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:12,120 on my mind. We talked so much about sin last time that it was funny or maybe sad. I don't know 10 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:23,080 if it was funny or sad that our podcast was labeled explicit. Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of an 11 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,480 interesting, I don't know if that's because we talked so much, you used the word sin so much 12 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,080 or no, that's because I accidentally clicked explicit. Okay, that was on your part. That was 13 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,360 on my side. Well, it kind of was explicit because we talked so much about sin. And as I listen back 14 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:43,960 to it, you know, I don't make any apologies for anything that we said. But I did feel bad that 15 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:52,160 I didn't say quote, Dr. In Covenants section one, you know, God cannot look upon sin with the 16 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:59,640 least degree of allowance. And we could have quoted, we could have quoted Alma, that he abhor 17 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:05,960 sin, and Nephi says the same thing. And maybe we didn't make the point strong enough as I listen 18 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:16,280 to it, as I listen back to it, that we hate sin, even though we know that was part of God's plan, 19 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:23,040 we hate it, and we should never become desensitized by it. But you know, Scott, 20 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:33,280 it's so easy to say and so hard to do, to hate sin, but love the sinner. And that includes 21 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:43,080 ourselves. Yeah. I mean, we just have to be more kind, more merciful, more, more loving towards 22 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:49,080 ourselves and others, even those who are unrepentant, even ourselves when we're unrepentant. 23 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:57,760 But we have to hate the sin and never become desensitized by it. God doesn't become ever 24 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:06,160 desensitized by it, and we shouldn't either. So we have to reach a point where we abhor it, 25 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:14,480 but we always should understand it, and that it was part of mortality, and it will always be 26 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:26,200 part of our mortality. And yet, we love the sinners. We love Christ, loved the sinners. You 27 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:32,680 know, that parable that we read, again, I think it doesn't get read enough about the publican who 28 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:41,920 beats up on his chest and, you know, cries out to God how unworthy he is. And then that Pharisee 29 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,680 who says, I'm glad I'm not like that. Yeah, I'm glad I'm not like that public. I'm glad I'm not 30 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:54,840 like that sinner. Yeah. That homeless man, drug addict or whatever. I mean, there are just so 31 00:03:54,840 --> 00:04:02,360 many places you can go with that. But and Jesus says, well, the great lesson is that if you have 32 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:09,520 to base yourself, you become exalted. If you exalt yourself, you become a base. You will be a 33 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:15,360 based. And I think we just really need to think about that. And if there's one thing we need to be 34 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:26,720 perfect that it's seek to be perfected in our humility and meekness and our dependence, interdependence 35 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:34,240 upon Jesus Christ and in his Atonement, which I'm so excited we get to talk about today. And the 36 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:42,720 other thing is, I got a call interesting Saturday night from a former student several years ago, 37 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:51,160 but I remembered him. And he called me from Idaho and not Idaho, Ohio, and he's working on a medical 38 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:58,840 degree. He's going to be a doctor. And he called me and wanted to review some of the principles of 39 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:06,400 the class and talked about how much that course had influenced him and influence his thinking. And 40 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:12,680 now as a medical student, you know, he's in a in a ward and he's he was given an assignment to 41 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:18,800 teach the youth and he wanted to to remember and capture some of the things that he had learned in 42 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:26,520 that course about the importance of identity, knowing who and who's we are and the need that we 43 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:33,880 have for the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the powers of Christ. So it was fun to have a long 44 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:40,040 conversation with a former student. And I just want to remind all of our listeners that this is a 45 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:47,600 course. It's it's, we call it a podcast, but I hope that others will kind of see it as a course 46 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:56,080 that was taught and designed several years ago and and is now an Institute course that is taught 47 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:01,200 throughout the world and Institutes of Religion and kind of follows along the Elder Anderson's 48 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:08,440 book called the Divine Gift of Forgiveness, which has become the student manual for the course. 49 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:17,320 And as we've talked about sin, and I'm ready to put that behind a scot and talk about the Atonement 50 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:22,280 of Jesus Christ today. Interesting that you said you had that student call you. I think that's so 51 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:29,520 cool. I bet I bet it takes courage maybe from some of those guys think oh I got a call Brother 52 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,600 Durfee. I don't know if he'll because you know, let's let's be honest these guys, you know, 53 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,640 been some of them have been to your classes on multiple for multiple. Yeah, I'm gonna take 54 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,560 a five or six times. Yeah, and it wasn't easy for him to find me. He had to call several other 55 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:52,840 teachers to kind of get my number and they had to do some work to chase me down. And I know you've 56 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:56,680 had that experience too. You're teaching that course. Well, yeah, yeah. Well, as a matter of fact, 57 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:02,800 I you said Idaho because I actually had a student call me just yesterday from Idaho from Idaho. Yeah, 58 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:08,200 yeah. And we had a very, very sweet conversation around things too. You know, one of the this 59 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:15,640 it wasn't this one. But it does happen because of the transparency that Deb and I when we teach 60 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,960 that class about our own lives and about how the Atonement of Jesus Christ has had its effects 61 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:27,320 in our own lives and changing it completely. We're fairly transparent. We talk about that. We 62 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:32,280 talk about our stories a little bit, you know, as so so far as it's appropriate to do so in 63 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,840 that class, etc. And I think by and we give our we give our phone number, we put it on the board, 64 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:43,360 and and we extend an invitation and I've literally said, Listen, my phone rings in the 65 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,000 middle of the night, and I've received phone calls in the middle of the night from students 66 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,400 from that class as well as alcoholics and drug addicts that I sponsor in a like I have called 67 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,120 my sponsor in the middle of the night at times when I'm just battling with the effects of the 68 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:03,200 fall, right? Well, we talk about that and it was a really fun conversation that I had with the 69 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:09,480 the student that I had taught yesterday, he called mostly to find out if I knew about wiring for 70 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:15,880 his motorcycle, but we had we had some other really tender conversation around some other 71 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:23,440 things that were topical to the class for sure. I love though, in Deb and I taught last night, 72 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:29,560 our Institute class and we were about where we are in terms of our podcast. And we were talking 73 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,680 about the effects, we were talking of the fall. And because we had a lot of new students with 74 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:40,080 this last night. And so we couldn't just dive straight into the blessings of the atonement or 75 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:45,640 the events and the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, we had to kind of make that 76 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:51,920 applicable in our lives by revisiting the fall. And as we did so, man, we just had some sweet 77 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:58,520 experiences, testimonies and tears and just people are being influenced for the better because of 78 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,840 the because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. And to know that, you know, we talked about sin 79 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:08,360 last week, we talked about how it can tip us over you. I'm so grateful that you said what you just 80 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:15,000 said this morning about how we should we're not proponents of sin. I mean, we understand sin and 81 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,240 we understand that, you know, it is part of our mortal existence, but we're not here to propagate 82 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:26,720 sin. We're here to propagate the the anecdote to sin, the atonement of Jesus Christ. But I so 83 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,640 I'm glad you brought that up this morning. And how important that is because I love now, and we'll 84 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:38,320 do that right now. I love now that we're moving into the most important eternal doctrine that 85 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:44,520 anyone has ever known. The doctrine of Christ and and you know, there's no greater needs, 86 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:51,120 God, no greater need in the world. And I know you you could sense that in your students. And I 87 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:57,560 sensed it in you describing your class last night. There's no greater need that young adults have in 88 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:05,440 the church that older adults have in the church, and everybody in between, then to understand who 89 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:12,280 they are, who's they are. And when I when I say that, I mean, sons and daughters of God and sons 90 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:21,960 and daughters of Adam and Eve. And no greater need than to understand their need for the atonement 91 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:28,560 of Jesus Christ, and then to increase their faith and their understanding knowledge in the 92 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:38,000 atonement of Jesus Christ and learn how to access the powers available to us through the atonement 93 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:46,400 of Jesus Christ. That is singular, the greatest need in the church and in the world, really. And 94 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:55,000 and you can tell you can tell as you teach it, right, that they just their spirits just are like 95 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:04,160 sponges. And they just soak it up. And it's not just because they need it here. It's because we 96 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:11,960 had learned the importance of it in the pre existence before we were ever born. Yeah. And it's 97 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:17,640 a remembering Deb talked about that to our kids last our kids. We really seem that way. I know 98 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,840 you used to too. But we really seem that way. But Deb talked that talked about that to our kids 99 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,800 last night that you know what we are going to be talking about is really not a learning so much as 100 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:32,080 it is a remembering. Yeah, because we know this doctrine and this doctrine not only did we know 101 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,440 it. We subscribe to it fully as we've talked about as is evidenced by our existence in mortality, 102 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:44,800 right? Yeah, absolutely. And it's it's such an exciting time, really, a time of the year right 103 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:54,160 now that we're in Scott to be able to talk about this because we just started the lense season. 104 00:11:54,160 --> 00:12:03,360 Anyway, it's exciting time of the year. Scott were the great Christian traditions that lead up to 105 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:12,320 Easter. I've always loved when I moved back to Minnesota and got close to so many great people 106 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:20,720 who were good Lutherans and Catholics and and this is such a special time for them. And I wish 107 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:26,240 that we would make it a little more special in our own traditions. In fact, I'm so excited, Scott, 108 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:36,080 about the church's announcement to have a special Easter sacrament meeting and to just have sacrament 109 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:45,280 meeting and it's always kind of been as as I don't know, it's kind of been hard for me to think that 110 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:51,920 we make such a big deal and we do so great celebrating Christmas, but we don't do so great 111 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:58,000 celebrating Easter. And it's just really exciting that the first present scene, the core of the 112 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:05,840 12th, has announced that that Easter Sunday will be a little more significant and that we'll just 113 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:11,520 have a special Easter program that day and go home and be able to spend it with our families and 114 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:19,040 think about Jesus and celebrate it in Easter. And I hope that as we get closer to that, we'll talk 115 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:26,400 more about that event and the resurrection and maybe traditions that families can have to make 116 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:34,000 the most of that. But Lent is a time, you know, it started, they don't know exactly when it started, 117 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:42,240 but around 400 AD, they start this tradition of 40 days before Easter, really 40 days before 118 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,200 Gethsemane, the night of Gethsemane, when the atonement begins, that 40 days before that, 119 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:53,440 they have what they call Ash Wednesday, which was recently and they put ashes, they'll 120 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,120 palm leaves, they burn them and they get some ashes and put them on their forehead and 121 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:08,400 and oftentimes in the symbol of the cross. And I think it's such a great tradition because there's 122 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:15,440 sacrifice involved in that, you know, they're not supposed to eat meat, they're not supposed to drink 123 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:24,400 wine, they're supposed to fast, pay tidings and sacrifice and whatever sacrifices they can make 124 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:34,560 to be able to prepare themselves for Easter week, not just Easter, Easter week. And I think this is 125 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:44,000 such a great time for us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ to do the same thing and to begin 126 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:52,560 to think now about about Easter and what we can do to prepare for Easter. And so our podcast today 127 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:59,920 will certainly lend itself to that. We started this podcast a year ago on Easter week. 128 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:00,480 Dr. Reagan. 129 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:09,120 And now it's so exciting that we're doing a second season and can talk about events leading up to 130 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:15,600 Easter week. And anyway, that's what that's what I hope that we can accomplish today. 131 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:23,200 I'm just so excited about all that Easter is that we are really coming into it. You know, 132 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:29,600 we can see the earth around us is going through its process its season. There will be a rebirth of 133 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,920 two four planet earth here pretty soon, especially, you know, if you live in areas like we live. 134 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:42,400 Yeah, we're covered. We are covered. We have a huge blanket of snow. We got another 14 inches or 135 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:48,160 more last night, not last night, the night before here. And just so but we'll see that 136 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,000 rebirth coming. And as we see that rebirth coming to the earth, that's a good reminder to me, you 137 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:57,040 know, as I see those little buds pop out as I start to smell the smell of fresh cut hay, 138 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:03,280 which is just so special to me, you know, and and all of those other barn smells that start coming 139 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:10,320 with with, you know, this time of year is just I just am so grateful for that and for that 140 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:17,840 association. But what makes that association so deep is the things that we're going to talk about. 141 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:25,040 Yeah, starting today. Well, let's let's jump in understanding understanding the fall 142 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:33,600 and understanding our need for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. There are two major aspects of the 143 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:41,920 Atonement of Jesus Christ that we'll discuss in our course. The first is the events of the Atonement 144 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:50,720 and the second are the effects is the effects of the Atonement. There are there are four events 145 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,680 that I would like to talk about first will this may take a week or two for us to talk about this and 146 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:07,520 and kind of pre prelude to Easter and Easter season. And then we'll talk about the effects 147 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:15,680 of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the powers that flow out of his Atonement. And before we 148 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:23,600 jump into the actual four events, I just want to draw on a few quotes from the brother in 149 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:31,680 in regards to the Atonement itself and how central it is not only to God's plan, but how 150 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:39,840 central it should be in our worship and in our own personal lives. One of my favorites is elder 151 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:49,760 Boyd K. Packer, who said the Atonement of Jesus Christ is the very root of Christian doctrine. 152 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:57,120 You may know much about the gospel as it branches out from there. But if you only know the branches 153 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:06,400 and those branches do not touch that root of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, if they have been cut 154 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:15,280 free from that truth, there will be no life nor substance nor redemption in them. 155 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:24,560 Well, I really love that, Scott. And if I can just kind of paraphrase it, if we if we don't 156 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,760 understand the doctrine of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and it's not the center of everything that 157 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:38,720 we do. And if we if we teach or do things, and it's not somehow connected, any doctrine or 158 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:45,680 anything that we teach, if it's not connected to the Atonement of Jesus Christ, it's dead. 159 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:52,560 There's no substance. There's no redemption. We're probably wasting our time teaching it. 160 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:59,280 I used to tell when I was the director of the Institute at Utah Valley University, 161 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:09,520 I would I would tell our teachers, if if you teach any lesson that is not tied to the Atonement of 162 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:16,320 Jesus Christ or the Atonement of Jesus Christ cannot be attached to your lesson, and it's not 163 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:24,880 an important part of your lesson, then why are you teaching it? It'll be dead. There's no life. 164 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:31,360 There's no substance. There's no redemption. Even if you know we had this great class on the restoration 165 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,440 and there was a lesson in there to help help our students to understand some some of the 166 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,400 challenges and problems of our history. And one of those is the Mountain Meadows Massacre. And 167 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:49,600 I would use that as an example. If you teach the Mount Meadows Massacre and you can't figure out 168 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:55,200 how to attach the Atonement of Jesus Christ to that lesson, then maybe you shouldn't teach it. 169 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:04,880 The Atonement of Jesus Christ should be part of everything that we teach in the church. It should 170 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:11,280 be part of everything we teach in our homes. It should be a part of our daily lives. Look under 171 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:20,960 me in every thought, doubt not, fear not, behold the wounds. He implores us anyway. Scott, the Atonement 172 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:27,280 of Jesus Christ has to be attached to everything that's important to our life or it will die. 173 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:34,720 And if it's not attached to anything that we do or if it's not attached to the Atonement of Jesus 174 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:42,720 Christ, then there will be no eternity in it. There will be no substance, no redemption. So I 175 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:49,600 just think it's critical that we begin by understanding the centrality and the importance 176 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:55,360 of the focus on the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our personal lives and church life and our everyday 177 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:04,640 life. The Atonement of Jesus Christ can literally permeate every part of our lives if we make 178 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:11,840 that our focus and if we allow that to. And if we do anything different from that, then we will not 179 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,280 have the administration of the Atonement of Jesus Christ at work in our lives to the degree. It's 180 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,960 at work in all of our lives without effort to a degree, without effort. But to the degree that 181 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:29,280 we want it to be effective in our lives, to free us from sin, to free us from the bondage of self, 182 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:35,600 to free us from the effects of the physical death, our mental problems, our physical problems, 183 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:42,640 our emotional problems, to be free from all of that then. It sounds like we really should be 184 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,880 focusing on the Atonement of Jesus Christ and allow it and in fact encourage it to permeate every 185 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:56,400 aspect of our lives. Amen. Amen, Scott. And I just don't think you can exaggerate that. 186 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,920 You know, President David Oman Kaye used to always say, and this is kind of a paraphrase, 187 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:09,600 whatever you sincerely in your heart think of Christ, Jesus Christ, and I'm going to add, 188 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:17,920 and his Atonement, his birth, his life, his death, and the Atonement, it will ultimately 189 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:28,400 determine who you are, what you do, and how you live. I believe that. I believe that is literal. 190 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:36,880 Therefore, I hope that in our discussion we can help ourselves, our families, and others 191 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:48,400 to make it more of a forefront thought in our minds, in our prayers, in our lives. 192 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:57,120 One of my favorite quotes from Preach My Gospels, Scott, is the, right on page two, 193 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:03,680 of Preach My Gospel, as your understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ grows, 194 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:13,600 your desire to share the Gospel will increase. And if you'll allow me just to tweak that, 195 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:20,960 I want to repeat that quote and just make one small change. So this from Preach My Gospel page two, 196 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:27,360 with one word change, as your understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ grows, 197 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:39,120 your desire to live the Gospel will increase. I know that's true from my personal experience, 198 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:45,440 and from all the experiences I've had in any positions that I've served in the church, 199 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:55,760 in my own family, in their lives. I know that's true. And one last quote before we get into the 200 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:03,840 events of the Atonement and the events that lead up to it is Elder Richard G. Scott, who said, 201 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:15,120 pondering the grandeur of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, evokes the most profound feelings of awe, 202 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:24,800 immense gratitude, and deep humility. Those impressions can provide you powerful motivation 203 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:33,520 to keep His commandments and consistently repent of errors for greater peace and happiness. 204 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:44,640 I know that the greatest motivation, the greatest source of motivation in our lives, 205 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:55,040 to live a life of a disciple of Jesus Christ, the greatest motivation is to understand His sacrifice, 206 00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:06,480 to understand what the Father sacrificed in giving us His Son, and to understand the love of Christ 207 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,560 in keeping the commandments of His Father, His love for His Father, His obedience, 208 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:21,600 and His love for us to be willing to lay down His life. I think my favorite scripture, 209 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:30,080 the New Testament, Scott, is John 3, 16, and 17, which says, For God so loved the world 210 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:38,000 that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, 211 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:47,520 but have everlasting life. And then verse 17 says, For God sent His Son into the world, 212 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:55,440 not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved or redeemed. 213 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:05,280 And I just know that if we would focus on that truth, we would have greater hope, 214 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:14,240 we would have greater peace, we would have greater joy in our lives. There was a time when we were 215 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:20,320 having, when I was serving as the branch president at the MTC, and we had this rash of disobedience, 216 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:28,000 and some missionaries, unfortunately, were being sent home because of some of the 217 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:34,960 things that were going on. And anyway, it wasn't very many, but it was more than should have been. 218 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:48,000 And I remember our MTC president sharing this story about him being troubled by this, and he 219 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:54,160 started to make it a matter of fasting and prayer. And so he was fasting, and he was praying, and 220 00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:02,400 it was, he said on Christmas Eve early in the morning, when he was awakened by a voice or a 221 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:09,040 prompting, and he, and he wakes up and he hears like a voice in his mind, a thought, an impression. 222 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:19,120 Gratitude is the beginning of desire. You see, Scott, his great question was that he was praying 223 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:27,520 and fasting about was, why do some missionaries have the desire to be obedient? And why do some 224 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:33,520 not have the desire to be obedient and live the gospel? What is the difference? Desire is the 225 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:42,080 difference. How can I help these missionaries to have the desire to live the gospel, to be obedient? 226 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:55,840 And this was his answer. Gratitude is the beginning of desire. And he went to grab a pen and a paper 227 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,880 to write this down. He's sitting on the edge of his bed. And as he writes it down, gratitude is 228 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:11,920 the beginning of desire. He thinks gratitude for what? And his mind is then filled with a vision 229 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:22,080 of the atonement of Jesus Christ and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And from that point on, 230 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:29,120 we witnessed miracles at the missionary training center because he gave us instructions that we 231 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:38,160 needed to, the number one thing we were to do in the branch was to help missionaries to understand, 232 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,800 appreciate, and feel greater gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ. And we not only saw 233 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:52,240 increased repentance, but we saw increased obedience. And probably motivation and attitude 234 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,040 and everything that comes along with it. I think that if we were going to 235 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:03,600 approach today's podcast with our own question, our own question might be similar. How do we 236 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:09,920 increase our desire? And then we've received now a revelation to that question. So now, 237 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,880 how do we increase our gratitude if we pay attention to not just what we're hearing, 238 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,440 definitely more importantly than what we're hearing if we'll pay attention to what we're 239 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:25,760 feeling as we're hearing these things. Our gratitude will grow our desire along with it. 240 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:32,880 And as we do so, we'll just recognize our own sense of increased peace and faith in our own 241 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:40,800 lives as we do it. Yeah, so thank you, Scott. And I used to tell my students that if you ever 242 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:50,240 find yourself waning in your desire to live the gospel, if you find that you're kind of weak or 243 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:58,080 that the motivation isn't quite there to keep the commandments or to repent of our sins and 244 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:07,360 mistakes and errors, I can without exception tell you that what is missing in your life is 245 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:18,720 the level of gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ that you need in order to make those changes 246 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:28,160 happen. I mean, Scott, gratitude, this is President James E. Faust, a talk that he gave many years 247 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:38,320 ago, which I'll never forget. Gratitude is a principle of salvation. And without it, you cannot 248 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:51,120 be saved. So I as we as we launch into the atonement of Jesus Christ, the number one result we hope 249 00:30:51,120 --> 00:31:01,040 for is not just to know the events or the effects or the what happened here and what happened there 250 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:12,080 and find an interesting new idea or two. The number one result of this should be that we are more 251 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:23,440 grateful that we understand a little bit more about the reality of what was given. And as we 252 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:33,760 as we experienced as we experienced that that gift of the atonement of Jesus Christ and receive it 253 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:42,160 that we are that we be filled with more gratitude than we've ever been filled with before. 254 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:54,240 So let's let's talk about the four events of the atonement of Jesus Christ. And I'll list them 255 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,920 and this will kind of be our outline and we'll see how far we get today and what we don't finish 256 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:08,880 today will we'll do next week. The first is the sinless life. The second is Gethsemane, 257 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:16,240 the Garden of Gethsemane. The third is the cross and the crucifixion what happens on the cross. 258 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:28,320 And the fourth is his death and his resurrection, the empty tomb. So again, one is sinless life, 259 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:40,560 two is Gethsemane, three is Golgotha, and four is the empty tomb. Those are the four events and places 260 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:48,960 that the atonement of Jesus Christ is fulfilled. The center of the whole plan of the whole plan of 261 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:59,280 the Father and the plan of redemption. I think one of the greatest events that we under appreciate is 262 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:12,960 the sinless life that he led and how difficult that was and what a sacrifice he made in never 263 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:25,120 sinning, Scott. He never sinned. He never gave heed to temptations. It's astounding to me and 264 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:38,160 he did not don his bulletproof vests of Godhood to reduce or lighten or to deflect 265 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:50,400 any temptation in his life. He felt greater temptation than any of us will feel and he felt all 266 00:33:50,400 --> 00:34:01,200 temptation. And to its largest degree. To a greater degree than any of us ever will. And I love this 267 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:13,520 quote by by C.S. Lewis on that idea. He says, this is in mere Christianity, page 142. No man knows 268 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:22,320 how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good. A silly idea is current that good people 269 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:30,960 do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation 270 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:40,720 know how strong it can be. After all, you find out the strength of the German army by fighting 271 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:49,200 against it, not by giving in. You find out the strength of a wind by trying to walk against it, 272 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:58,320 not by lying down. A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it 273 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:06,000 would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people in one sense know very little about 274 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:14,960 badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in. We never find out the strength 275 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:22,560 of the evil impulse inside us. And I'll just add or the full extent of the fall in all of us. 276 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:33,760 Until we try to fight it. And Christ, because he was the only man who never yielded to temptation, 277 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,720 is the only man who knows to the full extent what temptation means. 278 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:53,680 He is the only complete realist. Well, I love that and I believe that. I believe that Jesus Christ felt 279 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:03,040 to the nth degree more temptation than any of us will ever experience. And I love how the scriptures 280 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,320 teach. One of my favorites in Doctrine and Covenants section 20 where it talks about, 281 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:14,480 and he never gave he he was tempted and he never gave he'd. 282 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:27,040 Wow. But not giving he doesn't necessarily always stop the temptation. I mean, I know that 283 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:32,960 after the 40 days in the wilderness being with God, that Satan came in full force. 284 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:41,280 And that Satan was allowed to tempt him and to try him and and probably Satan personally. I know 285 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:48,800 that there's lots of devils in our lives. And some are even in the the the form of friends and 286 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,840 other mortals. I don't sometimes I don't even think I need a devil to tempt me to do wrong. 287 00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:01,360 I need a suggestion from a good friend to do wrong and I'm all over it. And so I 288 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:12,080 I Satan directly personally attacked him and had others evil men attack him all in the effort 289 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:20,240 to try to get him to just commit one little sin, dwell on one little thought too long. 290 00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:27,280 I know he had he would have had evil thoughts. Temptations come to us in many forms, right? 291 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:33,680 But he never gave he to it. He never gave attention to it. He never he never dwelt on it. He never 292 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:43,680 gave into it. I know he would have felt all of the temptations of fear and and lust and pride and 293 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:50,640 all the inappropriate emotions that we feel and and all of the direct actions that he could have 294 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:59,520 he could have taken to sin to be unkind to to to do you know to do all of the bad that we know. 295 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:09,600 And he sacrificed that Scott. That was that was perhaps I mean 296 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:18,720 that was an amazing sacrifice and it would have been extremely difficult and he did not use his 297 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:28,480 Godhood to deflect it or to lessen it. We have to understand that. I think so many people think 298 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:35,600 well he was Jesus. Yeah. Well he was a God. If we really contemplate and consider it gives us 299 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,840 even deeper gratitude for what he did. You know we don't often talk about. I mean I don't ever 300 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:46,480 remember in a Sunday school class or in a seminary class or you know anything like that talking about 301 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,480 the temptations that Jesus faced. You know and we know sinless and we know that his perfection 302 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,680 came as with the resurrection and all those other things. We've kind of alluded to that in the past 303 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,880 and that's a bit of a semantics. But but to live a sinless life. You know we I think I've thought 304 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:10,480 and I think so often many of us take so for granted. Well he was Jesus. That would be easy for a guy 305 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:18,080 like Jesus. But I don't think there was anything easy about that. I think that there was definitely 306 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:26,720 some some some power that he gained that he drew from from his father and some power and the ability 307 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:34,240 that he actually had to overcome that was because of his innate divine ship his innate Godship 308 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:41,280 Godhood. But I don't I think that you know we shouldn't and I'm challenging our listeners. Don't 309 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,480 just gloss over this. Don't just listen and think oh yeah that's cool. Really contemplate. I think 310 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:53,120 it's important that we really contemplate this aspect of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Well I 311 00:39:53,120 --> 00:40:02,640 don't think we can begin to imagine how badly Satan attacked him knowing that if he committed one sin 312 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:10,800 then the rest of his sacrifice in life is not to redeem us. It will only be to redeem him. 313 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:18,880 The vicarious aspect of the atonement of Jesus Christ would have been destroyed if he would 314 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:32,320 have sinned. It took a sinless lamb a sinless person a lamb without blemish. Only he could pay the 315 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:45,520 penalty make the punishment ransom us because he never sinned. He could offer his works and his life 316 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:52,880 in behalf of us and become our mediator and our advocate because he never sinned. 317 00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:04,400 And Satan knew that. Satan realized that and Satan knew if I can just get him to sin if I can just 318 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:13,600 get him to ponder or desire to do this or to do that. I turn to the Doctrine and Covenants section 319 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:26,320 20 verse 22. He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them. Paul wrote in Hebrews that he 320 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:37,200 suffered temptations of all kinds of all kinds. So he suffered temptations. 321 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:48,240 I just don't think we can really understand the atonement of Jesus Christ and appreciate it 322 00:41:48,960 --> 00:42:02,880 if we don't more fully appreciate this aspect of his sacrifice. The effort that he made and the 323 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:13,200 suffering that he experienced in the temptations of his life. This sinless holy being being 324 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:21,360 thrown into a world of hell and of all places among the people who were the most hellish and 325 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:29,200 the most wicked as Brigham Young and others have taught. The most wicked of all people who have 326 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:37,280 ever been on the earth. The only people who would ever crucify him not only on this world but all 327 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:49,520 worlds and Jesus was thrown into that place and would have experienced directly and indirectly. 328 00:42:49,520 --> 00:43:00,160 All of the temptations but never sinned. I think that when we think about sinless life, 329 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:06,160 when we think about Gethsemane, Golgotha and the resurrection, it's easy for all of us. I honestly 330 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:12,400 think probably most of us if not all of us to be super grateful for what happened in Gethsemane, 331 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,880 to be super grateful for what happened on the cross, to be very grateful for what happened 332 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,960 because of the resurrection. But I don't know, Dave, that we've spent much contemplation around 333 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:31,200 our gratitude of that sinless life. That was difficult. That was beyond human capacity. So 334 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:37,520 was Gethsemane, so was the cross, and so was the resurrection. And as much as those other three 335 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:46,800 were impossible beyond human capacity to achieve, so also was the sinless life. And our gratitude 336 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:54,000 for that wasn't easy. You think that's easy? Try living a sinless hour. Right? And it would be 337 00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:02,240 impossible for us. We don't have that divine father ship like he did directly. I mean, we have it, 338 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:08,160 but not directly like he did. And it did help him. But it was nonetheless difficult, I think, 339 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:15,440 that our appreciation and our gratitude for that alone, that sinless life alone. I just honestly 340 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:21,280 don't think that there's ever been a time when I've sat at the sacrament table and really contemplated 341 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:27,920 and was grateful for that sinless life. Until we started studying this. Yeah, I hope that we'll 342 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,920 think about that when we next time we predict the sacrament, is that we'll appreciate his sinless life. 343 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:46,720 The fact that he never gave heed to it, Scott, did not lessen it or make it just go away. No. 344 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:58,480 He felt it all, all temptation. And that leads us up. We'll review maybe the week of Easter, 345 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:08,080 all of the events of his last week. But the second now event of the Atonement of Jesus Christ 346 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:20,320 is what happens in Gethsemane. And Gethsemane, I think that in some some ways we sing of it in our 347 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:29,040 church. We certainly understand it better because of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ 348 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:38,400 God. I know that as a people that we are really that we really do a great job focusing on what 349 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:47,760 happened in Gethsemane. And I think that's wonderful that we do all of that. But I think sometimes 350 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:55,920 we don't. We think that he suffered for all of our sins in Gethsemane and that all of the suffering 351 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:03,680 in Gethsemane, that was it. Well, that wasn't it. You know, it was the suffering to not sin 352 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:10,400 going into Gethsemane. And it was the suffering coming out of Gethsemane that continued and 353 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,040 actually reoccurred on the cross, which we'll talk about. That's the third event. But 354 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:26,160 so he goes into Gethsemane and I nobody really understands other churches or religions, Scott, 355 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:32,000 what happened in Gethsemane. In fact, if you if you have a good friend who's a member of another 356 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:38,160 church, and if you were to get into this conversation, and if you were to say something like this, 357 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:46,160 I used to tell my students to fill in the blank in a conversation with a friend, if you were to say, 358 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:55,040 I am so grateful for Jesus Christ as my Savior Redeemer, who was willing to bleed from 359 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:04,160 fill in the blank. And they just rolls off their tongue, you know, my students. 360 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:12,160 Every poor every poor for my sins. And I would say, Where did you get that? 361 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:23,040 Where do you learn that? It's not in the Bible. We're so we're so blessed, Scott. There's only 362 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:33,680 two places in the scriptures where it describes in more detail what happens in Gethsemane. And 363 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:40,960 that's in King Benjamin's vision given to him by an angel. Angel walks him through it. And we have 364 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:47,360 that precious scripture in Mosiah chapter three, verse seven. And maybe maybe Scott, maybe we 365 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:53,680 should go there and read it. I as we get into some of these events. Now, I think it's really helpful 366 00:47:53,680 --> 00:48:03,760 for us to just read the word and not to just paraphrase it. So in Mosiah chapter three, verse seven, 367 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:09,680 got it right here and low, he shall suffer temptations and pain. Did you hear that? Yeah. Yeah. 368 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:15,120 There is again, I know, right? Suffer temptations. And it says suffer temptations. It doesn't say 369 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:19,840 he experienced them. We forget that that's part of his suffering too. Yeah, right. Right. Okay. 370 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:26,960 Seven, Mosiah three, seven and low, he shall suffer temptations and pain of body and hunger, 371 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:33,360 thirst and fatigue, even more than man can suffer except it be unto death. For behold, 372 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:40,560 blood cometh from every poor, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and abominations 373 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:47,760 of his people. That I believe is the first place where Joseph Smith learned that he bled from every 374 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:55,120 poor. Now, there is a scripture in the Bible in Luke. Luke comes the closest to describing what 375 00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:03,760 happened in Gethsemane. It's interesting that John doesn't say really much about it. Matthew and Mark 376 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:10,160 give us an account, which we'll look at in a here in a moment. But Luke comes probably the closest 377 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:20,720 to giving us some detail. And it's in Luke 22, Scott, verses 40 through 44. This is obviously 378 00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:26,080 when they had gotten to the garden. And he says, And when he and when he was at the place, he said 379 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:32,480 unto them, pray that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn withdrawn from them about a 380 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,120 stone's cast and kneeled down and prayed. So he's withdrawn from Peter, James and John about a 381 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:45,360 stone's cast, takes them into the garden with him and continue saying, Father, if thou be willing, 382 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:52,880 remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done. And there appeared an angel 383 00:49:52,880 --> 00:50:00,640 unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an being in agony, he prayed more earnestly. 384 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:07,520 And his sweat was as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Okay, so note 385 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:16,240 verse 44, it says his sweat was as it were, like great drops of blood falling to the ground. 386 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:24,400 Well, one day in Minneapolis, Minnesota, I had a little time one afternoon. And I had been pondering 387 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:31,520 this verse. And I wanted to kind of know how what other how other Christians saw it or how they 388 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:36,880 would interpret it. And I know there are there are different interpretations of it out there. 389 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:44,720 And anyway, so I I'm just reporting my experience. We had yellow pages back then, 390 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:51,680 the phone book. And I went to the churches and I started to call all these different churches, 391 00:50:51,680 --> 00:51:01,600 major Christian churches in the Minneapolis, St. Paul, metropolitan area. And I must have called 392 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:07,440 about 30 that afternoon. And I just said, this is what I said. So I have a theological question. 393 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:13,600 Is there a pastor, minister, priest that I could visit with about a theological question? And 394 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:20,720 the secretary would usually transfer me if the minister was in. And, and I would say, hey, 395 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:29,200 I'm reading Luke 22. What is going on in verse 44? What's happening in verse 44? Then I would read 396 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:34,480 it from the King James version, they may have the King James version or another version, and we would 397 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:46,000 have a little discussion about it. And, and they would say, usually, that Jesus was suffering so 398 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:59,200 great that that the pressure of paying for our sins was so great that there were a few drops of blood 399 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:10,320 that appeared on his forehead, or that they would say that his sweat. And this was the majority of 400 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:20,640 them, Scott, that he was sweating profusely, and that his sweat was symbolic of the blood that he 401 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:27,520 would shed on the cross. The majority of them answered that way. Some of them recognized that 402 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:34,800 there was maybe a few drops of blood. And you know, there have been some medical cases. I know that 403 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:41,760 the male clinic actually reports a couple of these of medical cases where pain is so great 404 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:50,560 that in individuals may actually sweat a few drops of blood. They call it hematidrosis is the medical 405 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:59,440 the medical term for that bleeding from your poor. But no, no one understands. 406 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:10,640 No one understands that Jesus bled from every poor that basically his circulatory system somehow 407 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:21,200 collapsed and literally his burst and blood oozed from every poor the constriction of 408 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:29,200 the vessels and the veins and capillaries in his body, the pain, the anguish, the pressure. 409 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:36,320 I know that he chose Gethsemane because of the meaning of the word, which is the press, 410 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:43,920 the oil press. And this is where they would, you know, take olives and they would press them and 411 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:51,840 they would crush the olives and including the pit of the olive with these stones and oil would ooze. 412 00:53:52,880 --> 00:54:02,640 And it was a perfect symbolic place of the suffering that would be pressed, the pain that would be 413 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:11,840 pressed, the stress and pressure that would be put upon Jesus Christ as he began to experience 414 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:21,840 complete spiritual death as he began to experience all of the consequences of sin in the world, 415 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:35,840 in the worlds, all of this and for three hours, for three hours, this goes on and he cries out, 416 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:45,840 of course, you know, if it be willing, let this cup pass from me. And an angel is sent, 417 00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:54,800 an angel is sent and I love William and Conkies belief that that was Adam and Michael, the archangel 418 00:54:54,800 --> 00:55:01,120 who was sent to Jesus to strengthen him. And so interesting that here we have the individual 419 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:12,320 who brought the fall and sin into the world, Adam and he appears to strengthen Jesus in paying 420 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:20,480 for all of the sin of the world and for all the consequences of all the sin of the world 421 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:29,600 and to pay for his spiritual death, to feel it and overcome it and to feel, you know, begin to feel 422 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:37,600 the physical pains and sicknesses and death that would eventually come to him on the cross. 423 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:49,600 Anyway, Adam comes as an angel to strengthen him. So I know it's incomprehensible, we can't begin 424 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:59,840 to comprehend really the suffering that he went through there, Scott. But I don't know, it's 425 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:06,720 overcoming to me really the when I think of it, the humility, the meekness that comes over me, 426 00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:19,760 thinking that I contributed to that. You know, like again, President Faust would say he asked 427 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:28,320 in a conference talk, I wonder how many drops he bled for me. And then he wrote a whole song on that. 428 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:37,200 And anyway, Scott, I don't, I know we can't comprehend, we don't have all the all the answers 429 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:45,520 to the questions about how was it possible or how did he do it or, or, you know, we don't know 430 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:52,880 everything. But we do know that he bled from every pore and the other place in the scriptures where 431 00:56:52,880 --> 00:57:00,960 we learned that, which is a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, actually a revelation to 432 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,920 Martin Harris through the Prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants section 19, 433 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:17,600 verses 16 through 19. For behold, I God have suffered these things for all 434 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:27,440 that they might not suffer if they would repent. But if they would not repent, they must suffer 435 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:36,640 even as I, which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all to tremble because of pain 436 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:50,160 and to bleed at every pore and to suffer both body and spirit and wood that I might not drink the 437 00:57:50,160 --> 00:58:00,080 bitter cup and shrink. Nevertheless, glory be to the Father and I partook and finished my 438 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:10,720 preparations under the children of men. Wow. Those verses right there, Scott, are worth a 439 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:19,440 whole doctrine, Covenants and all the revelations received by the Prophet Joseph Smith. I love the 440 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:28,240 phrase, you know, bleed at every pore to suffer body and spirit. I believe his greatest suffering 441 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:36,000 was spiritual. Even as terrible, as awful as you can, you can't even imagine the physical to bleed 442 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:44,160 from every pore. But the real pain was, I think, in the spirit for this sinless 443 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:57,200 God to feel all of the sins. Scott, I know we're sinners, but just think of all the sins of all 444 00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:09,520 the world, repented of or not, Scott, pressing upon him, him feeling the effects of all of the sins 445 00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:19,120 committed in this world and others. Think of that, pressing upon this sinless being. 446 00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:28,880 I mean, I think most of his physical suffering would have been caused by his spiritual suffering. 447 00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:36,320 And then he says, and I would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink. 448 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:45,200 The bitter cup. Think about that a lot when I go to the temple. You know, when I go to the temple, 449 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:53,520 to places where we should be thinking about that. And there are two different times in the 450 00:59:54,400 --> 01:00:02,400 endowment. And I think about that. And I look at that. And I think, wow, the cup, the bitter cup. 451 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:09,520 And glory be to the Father. He gives all the glory to the Father. 452 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:20,240 And this humility is meekness. And then he just simply says, and I per took and finished my preparations. 453 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:31,760 Well, I'm just so grateful, Scott, that for, well, I'm grateful for Jesus mostly. But I'm also 454 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:39,200 really grateful for the restoration that we can understand to a greater degree more specifically 455 01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:48,160 with greater power. What really happened in Gethsemane before he ever gets to the cross and 456 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:52,880 suffers again on the cross, which we'll talk about next time. 457 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:59,680 I love that you pointed out suffered both body and spirit, and that really comes full circle to 458 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:04,160 where we were last week. And even at the beginning of this week, when we talked about the effects of 459 01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:10,240 the fall, the effects of the fall affected us both body and spirit. We have a spirit separation, 460 01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:14,560 and we have a body separation. And because of that separation, both become imperfect. 461 01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:22,080 Because of Christ's sinless life, his life had not become unperfect. It was still had it remained 462 01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:30,160 pure. It had remained godlike in all ways. Again, the perfection came later as the resurrection 463 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:38,640 took place. But however, his preparation through his sinless life so that he could answer the call 464 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:46,720 of our separation, body and spirit. And he suffered that too. Last night in our institute 465 01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:53,600 class, we spend a great deal of time talking about the effects of the fall, bodily and spiritual. 466 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:58,880 And he suffered those things, both body and spirit for us. I am so grateful. I can't even begin to 467 01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:07,200 express words will never in my life be able to express the gratitude and the appreciation that I 468 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:12,640 have for what he did there that day, among all the other things that we're going to talk about, 469 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:18,240 and all the other things that we've already talked about. But what he did there then, you know, 470 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:24,960 I've often, and I think maybe prompted by Elder Faust many, many years ago. But I often remember, 471 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:30,320 even in my not so sinless life, especially when my life was anything but sinless, 472 01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:36,880 I often even contemplated even in my sin, Dave, when I was in my full blown addiction and my full 473 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:44,080 blown alcoholism, we've talked about how our covenants can be so strong that sometimes they can 474 01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:50,400 even provide pull on us even in those times. And it did on me. And I often thought about that. 475 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:57,520 I often thought, you know, and great guilt would come with it, which was fine. And sometimes even 476 01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:03,280 shame, which isn't fine. But the guilt would come sometimes because I would contemplate that. I 477 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:09,760 wonder how much of his blood was because of me. I wonder how much of his suffering was ultimately 478 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:14,800 because of me because I know he suffered the sins and the pains of the world. But he suffered them 479 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:21,120 for us individually. And I think we it's hard for us sometimes to remember that I think it's easy 480 01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:26,800 for us to just think, well, he just paid for sin. He paid for sin categorically. He paid for sin 481 01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:33,760 systemically. He paid for sin in all of these ways. No, he paid for sin for Scott Durfey 482 01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:39,440 individually. He paid for sin and all of the troubles that come up with that for David Durfey 483 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:45,840 individually and all of our brothers and sisters and everybody else that that was done individually 484 01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:52,000 for some grateful to know that today. Well, the phrase that I love, which is again unique to 485 01:03:52,000 --> 01:04:04,240 restoration scripture is we refer to it, Nephi does and then Amulet. It is an infinite right 486 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:17,360 atonement. All time. All worlds. All sins by an infinite being repented of or not. It's infinite, 487 01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:26,320 but I love Elder Maxwell's including the word. It is infinite and intimate. Yeah. 488 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:35,440 Yeah. The atonement of Jesus Christ. You're right, Scott is very intimate. You know, I've been impressed 489 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:44,560 and have studied multiple times throughout my life. The phrase sins of all the world. And it's 490 01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:51,680 it's it's in the New Testament once and in the Book of Mormon several times and in the Doctrine 491 01:04:51,680 --> 01:05:01,920 Covenants as well. Sins of all the world. I asked Brother Matthews about that and said, does that 492 01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:11,200 include sins unrepentant of and he believed that it did. I believe that as well that even the sons 493 01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:19,360 of perdition will someday all the sins of all the world someday, even if they have no desire to repent, 494 01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:26,800 they'll they'll know every knee will bow and every tunnel confess that Jesus is the Christ 495 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:35,440 and that he suffered for them. And then they'll it's up to them if they reject it and refuse 496 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:44,480 him and refuse to receive the price that he paid the ransom he made. But I agree with you. It is 497 01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:53,040 intimate. It is also infinite and grateful that we've had the opportunity today to talk to talk 498 01:05:53,040 --> 01:06:00,480 about it. I think next week there's some more things about Gethsemane that we will talk about 499 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:08,960 and conclude that part that event and then we'll get into the the cross death and resurrection 500 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:14,960 for next week. And Scott, I just want to say, you know, even talking about it, you and me being 501 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:23,680 here talking about it, it brings it always affects my spirit and humbles me and it just 502 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:31,280 it just brings me this deep humility and and I know that's, you know, the spirit 503 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:37,680 humility is a gift to the spirit. And I'm thankful that I felt that today and pray that 504 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:46,160 that myself, my family and others will not not just acknowledge it and not just be disciples of 505 01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:54,960 Jesus, but be deeply grateful, deeply grateful for these events of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, 506 01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:01,200 which I'm so thankful for. We started our podcast today talking about how gratitude 507 01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:08,560 is the beginning of desire. And I think that we I think that as we contemplate this, as we listen 508 01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:13,680 to the things that we've talked about, as we feel typically we extend invitations. And I think we've 509 01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:19,680 extended one or two invitations through this podcast, you know, for example, to contemplate next 510 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:24,000 time you're your gratitude next time you're sitting at the sacrament table, for example. 511 01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:30,800 But I think that the spirit is the one that will provide invitations this week. I have felt that 512 01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:38,160 too. And I have felt him, I have felt invited by the spirit to do certain things in my life, 513 01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:44,480 because of my gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It increases my desire. And the more 514 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:50,320 gratitude I have, the more desire seems to come, more desire I have, the more grateful I am. And 515 01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:57,760 I feel this helix says it lifts me closer and closer to him, because my desire is to serve him to do 516 01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:05,280 what he would do to have that contrite spirit, where my will is swallowed up by his. And it's 517 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,920 because of his great love for each of us that that desire and that gratitude comes. Hey, I'm 518 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:15,440 grateful to be here today. I above all things above literally all things, I'm grateful for the 519 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,240 Atonement of Jesus Christ in my life. And I'm grateful for the Atonement of Jesus Christ in 520 01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:26,160 the lives of those that I love. And I'm grateful for the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and even the 521 01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:32,640 lives of those that I find difficult to love, because it is through that and through him that 522 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:40,000 even that can be reconciled in my life through my effort, because of the constant companionship 523 01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,600 and the administration of the Holy Spirit as it is, it brings the Atonement to my life into the 524 01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:50,720 lives of others. Thanks for being with us today. We are so grateful for this opportunity. We hope 525 01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:56,080 that you sense, we hope that you feel, and we hope that you have been uplifted and benefited by our 526 01:08:56,080 --> 01:09:12,000 efforts in being here today. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you again next week.