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Hey there everybody and welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.

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My name is Scott Durfey and joined as always by Uncle David.

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Hi Dave.

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Hey Scott, you're looking good with your makeup on.

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Scott's got makeup on and his face doesn't show all the blemishes.

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This is a face for radio for sure.

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Yeah, radio for sure but he just got through getting off of TV.

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Where they make me wear that stuff.

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What do they call that TV channel you're on?

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I'm on the TD Ameritrade Network.

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Yeah, so if you want to get to Scott's take on investments and technical analysis of the

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market you can see him on there and he looks really good with his makeup.

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Yeah, once again a face for radio.

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I feel like we digress though so I do look forward to today's topic.

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Last week we had a great discussion.

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I think we kind of ended on five blessings that come from understanding the doctrine

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of the fall of Adam and Eve.

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Again if you haven't heard that yet I encourage you to go back and listen to that and maybe

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even revisit that.

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David and I have been actually discussing the effects of the fall in our own lives as

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we've been sitting here this morning.

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I should say specifically the effects of the fall in my own life.

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Oh, all of our lives Scott.

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We all are affected by it.

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Every day.

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And aren't we grateful to know that?

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That's the solution.

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I was left to my own devices to just try and figure it out with no solution.

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It would just be hellish insanity I think.

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So we just had a little short discussion but before that discussion Scott what were you

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feeling versus once you acknowledge the fall in your life you understand that it's part

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of mortality.

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You kind of know that that's who I am.

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I'm just human.

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I'm just a human but then you remember as soon as you say that, hopefully you remember,

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that however I am a son of God.

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I did come from the premortal realms of eternity fathered by a heavenly father and a heavenly

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mother Jesus Christ.

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I mean once you acknowledge and celebrate your humanness the very next thought should

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be however.

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And it should allow you to accept the bad thoughts, bad feelings, bad things that happen

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in our life and to quickly, quickly maybe sometimes not so quickly, maybe moments, maybe

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hours or days, but that you come back to the truth of who we truly are eternally.

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We're only humans for a little while but eternally we are sons and daughters of God and Jesus

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Christ to get us through this short probationary period, this period in which we suffer all

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the negative effects of the fall, we should just be really grateful for that knowing that

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because of the atonement of Jesus Christ we don't have to accept all of those negatives

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and that we can act and not be acted upon over and over and over again and that we can

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choose because of the atonement of Jesus Christ not to accept those bad feelings in our hearts,

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inappropriate emotions, not accept the inappropriate thoughts and weakness of mind that we all

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go through every day, but that through the atonement of Jesus Christ I can overcome that,

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I don't have to accept it and that with His help that He can even change that.

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What a blessing to know that too and we know that but also because we're human it's easy

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for us to sometimes forget it, for it to become clouded or whatever.

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I was actually talking to my sponsor about this, I mentioned this to you, but I sponsor

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guys in recovery, well I need to be sponsored too and I was talking to him about it and

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I was like, his name's Dave too.

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I said, you know Dave, I just struggle because I do this podcast, we try and teach people

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who they are and all of that and then I struggle with my own fears, my own insecurities and

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I feel like such a hypocrite because here we are trying to help people to understand

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the importance of these things.

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We're all hypocrites Scott.

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You reminded me of that this morning which I'm grateful for.

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We're all hypocrites.

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We never live up to our full potential and we never would.

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To do that would mean that we have become perfect, complete, totally finished.

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We're not, we're a project here.

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This is an experiment, not an experiment in God's eyes, but this is part of His plan and

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it's a project and the important thing is that we're learning.

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That we're growing through our oppositions and temptations and that we're progressing.

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Now before I got here and you said yesterday you were kind of struggling with this and

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that's when you talked to your sponsor and maybe you've been feeling a little off spiritually.

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Maybe a lot off.

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But when we talk about these things Scott and it comes back to your mind and you remember.

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It makes a difference.

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It does.

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It makes a big difference because it's been different Dave.

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After having sat here and counseled with you for several, well for about an hour or more

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this morning, that's the thing that's relieving to me.

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I know that you're all fallen.

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I know that we talk, I haven't felt very celebratory about the fall this week, but we should celebrate

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the fall.

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That's right.

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You don't when you're given into it.

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Yeah, thank you.

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I just got called out by Uncle Dave when you're given into it.

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I know it is and I'm okay with that.

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I have been given into the effects of the fall in my life for whatever reason.

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I've been listening to, I've been believing the accusations of the accuser to some degree.

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Now it's not bad.

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I mean it's all relative.

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It's bad enough that it's been an uncomfortable week for me.

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Not an entire week, but the last few days.

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Anyway.

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Well, your pride comes into that.

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Our ego comes into that.

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False traditions that we've learned from our fathers and our mothers.

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False ideas.

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The world that we live in.

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Comparing ourselves to others.

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Seeking the wrong things in the wrong places at the wrong time.

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It's just all part of mortality, Scott.

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Right.

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I wonder how hard it's going to be.

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Well, maybe I should rephrase that.

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I wonder how hard it is for some people, myself included, to ever be okay with it's okay that

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we're falling.

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I don't think I'm really articulating that the way that I'd really like to, but to get

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to that point where I think I see other people, that they'll have that feeling, they'll have

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that fear, they'll have that inadequate feeling or insecurity or whatever.

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And to just be accepting of it.

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Now I know that the process to get to that is to understand who I am and just as important,

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probably way more important, is to know Him.

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And I do know Him.

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I do know Him.

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And I know that it's through His merits and it's through His sacrifice and it's through

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His suffering.

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Not my own.

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I don't have to suffer through His.

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Through His righteousness.

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Yeah, not my own.

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Through His merits.

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Again, not my own.

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And I have to be okay with that.

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And I have to be okay with what I perceive the world to think of me because of those

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things.

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And that's sometimes where I get a little tripped up.

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Scott, I'm sure in the last 24 hours I've had a multiple number of false thoughts, inappropriate

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emotions.

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We swim.

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We swim continually like fish in a sea of mortality.

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We're never going to be free from it.

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But the moment I am aware of it, and I think it's really important that we become more

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mindful and aware that what we are feeling is not coming from me.

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It's not who I really am, but it's because of the mortality that I've been placed in.

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It's the conditions that I live in.

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It's the temptations that Satan is free to place in my path.

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The afflictions, everything that goes with the false, Scott, if we're aware of it, number

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one.

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And then number two, we immediately remember that it was part of the plan, that part of

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the plan was that we would experience sin, afflictions, and all the inappropriates that

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we experience daily.

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That's part of the plan, Scott.

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And then that we have a Savior who felt it all, suffered for it, who has redeemed us.

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And it goes back to that quote that we several times redeemed humanity is greater, more glorious

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than unfallen humanity.

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Would have ever been.

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Would have or could have ever been.

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I don't know.

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I just think so many times we just, we drift in the rivers of mortality without ever giving

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thought of what the plan was, really what the plan of redemption means, and then to

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remember immediately when we have our inappropriate thoughts, feelings, emotions, or even when

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we act out on those, that we should immediately bow our head and we should say thank you.

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And we should think about the Father's plan, His sacrifice of His Son, and the Son's sacrifice

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of purchasing us, suffering for us, redeeming us through His blood.

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Right.

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And I think that's exactly the reason that we're doing this, this podcast.

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I think that's one of the reasons that I'm so adamant about learning this and teaching

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it in our Institute class that we'll teach again tonight.

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Yeah.

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And helping others in recovery that are somewhat inclined to these types of thoughts and feelings

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as well.

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Well, I know it blesses us.

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Yeah, it does.

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My real prayer and motive is that it will bless my children and my children's children

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and my family, extended and immediate, and others who may accidentally find out about

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the podcast and those who are enjoying it.

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And I'm grateful for, again, the positive response that we've had.

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But let us rejoice, let us thank God for all of the inappropriate things we feel every

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day, remembering that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I can choose not to feel

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those things every day.

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Right.

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I may feel them, but I don't have to linger in them.

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I don't have to be controlled by them.

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I can choose to change them or have them changed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

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You know, I think I trick my, I don't trick myself.

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I have this belief that's erroneous.

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It's inaccurate.

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And I'm becoming aware of this belief as part of my inventory that I try and take on a pretty

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consistent basis.

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But that belief is that I have to fill it all the way through.

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You have to suffer it for yourself.

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All the way through.

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I have to suffer it until I'm done suffering or until it goes away.

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Or that I have to control it.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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What's wrong with me that I can't control this?

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Exactly.

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Instead of turning to Christ, and as I mentioned to you specifically about some of the fears

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and anxieties that you've been feeling lately, Scott, that you immediately pray with all

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energy of heart for love.

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And that's the point.

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And He, He will change the fear to love.

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And perfect love, or the love of Christ, is what replaces our fear.

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Perfect love casteth out all fear.

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Yeah.

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Now, I can't do that on my own.

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I can't do that on my own.

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I don't even, I don't know.

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I'm like you, Scott.

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I'm mortal, natural man fallen.

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And I probably do sometimes still try to do that on my own.

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I'm sure I do.

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But I don't have to do it on my own.

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And that's what we forget.

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Instead of immediately when we feel fear, you gotta, number one, you have to acknowledge

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it.

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You have to be aware of it.

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You have to be mindful.

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I cannot believe how many times I feel fear every day.

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But I have learned that most of the time, I'm not perfect at this, most of the time,

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I can then pray with all energy of heart, Moroni 748, pray with all energy of heart,

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which is the emotional center of our being, symbol of the emotional center of our being,

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pray with all energy of heart, that He change it to love, that I pray for His love, charity,

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the pure love of Christ.

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And immediately my heart will flip and my thoughts flip and my life has been changed.

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You just went through the first three steps again.

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And it's interesting how that really does kind of work its way into all of these conversations.

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You just said, you know, I have to admit it.

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I have to recognize it right out of the gate.

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You can't change it if you don't.

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Or it can't be changed.

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I keep saying you can't change it.

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I don't believe that I can change it.

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I don't believe I do change it.

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I know that comes from a higher power.

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And then the second two parts of that or the second two steps are what does change it.

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I came to believe that a power greater than me could restore me to sanity, could get rid

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of my fear, could get rid of my insecurities, could get rid of all those crazy things I'm

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feeling.

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He can do that.

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Jesus Christ, my Savior.

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And then the third step is broken heart and contrite spirit.

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Made a decision to turn my will and my life over the care of God as I understand Him.

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And it really is pretty much that simple.

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That's the gospel of Jesus Christ as I understand it, Scott.

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I agree.

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And that's addiction recovery as you understand it.

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Yeah.

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And they don't seem to be all that different.

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Interesting how that works, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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And the power that can flow into our lives, whether you're a member of the church or not.

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Right?

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Right.

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Exactly.

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I mean, I see absolute truth.

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It's not relative.

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And it doesn't matter which organization you belong to.

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The only thing that matters is who you trust.

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That's right.

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But you got to know Him.

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And where's your heart?

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And then you got to make a decision to turn your will and your life over to Him.

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And that's the process.

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Well, I got Sunday, I just went off on that heart thing.

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Yeah.

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Why don't you talk about that for a minute?

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Well, it was Valentine's recently, right?

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Yeah.

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I'm not sure when we're going to publish this podcast, but it was Valentine's recently.

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And I've always, I don't know why, but I've always, I think because of some of the statements

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of the brethren and just over the years and a long life, I've come to believe that Valentine's

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Day is one of the most sacred holidays of the year because it focuses on the heart.

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And the heart is everywhere in the Word of God, in the Holy Scriptures.

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It's everywhere.

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And it seems to me like the bottom line is, what's the condition or the desires or the

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thoughts and the intents of your heart?

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And so I just went off on my children and grandchildren Sunday thinking, Hey, when you

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see hearts on Valentine's Day, I just don't want you to think about romance and sexual

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relationships.

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I want you to think about where is my heart?

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Who have I given my heart to?

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Where does, where does my heart belong?

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Have I given my heart to God or to other gods?

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Who do I love?

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Who do I truly love?

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That's what we should think about.

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And nobody believes in romantic love, by the way, Scott, more than we do, because we believe

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that it's eternal and that it's sacred.

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And I just think it's, it's all about your heart.

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And I don't think that I can change fear from coming into my heart, but I know that perfect

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love in Christ can, and that comes to us as a gift because we have prayed with all energy

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of heart for that gift and that it can be bestowed upon us as a gift.

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Moroni 748 says it's bestowed upon those who are true followers of Jesus Christ.

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But I just, I'm grateful, Scott, for the fall.

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I'm sorry that it causes all of us such consternation when we forget that it was part of the plan

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and when we forget that the atonement of Jesus Christ has redeemed us from it.

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And when we forget that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, we can choose to act and

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not just be acted upon by mortality in the fall.

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And when we forget that we agreed to the conditions of mortality before we came here, because

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of at that point, at least at that point, we knew where our hearts were.

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And we've talked about this before, Dave, recently, the war in heaven continues.

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The war in heaven knows no boundaries, right?

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We call it the war in heaven, which seems to give it boundaries, but it knows no boundaries.

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It's alive and well here.

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And that's still what we're fighting today.

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But we knew that those conditions of mortality would be here.

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We also knew that those conditions of mortality would be satisfied in every way by Jesus Christ.

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Covered, covered, overcome.

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We can overcome the world because Christ overcame the fall.

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And I just I hope and pray that I can remember that you can remember that Scott and our listeners

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can remember that that we can thank God for the plan of redemption and salvation, which

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includes the creation, the fall and the atonement.

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There's another thing that comes up when we think about the fall, and it's also a condition

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of our mortality.

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And we didn't talk much about it last week or even the week before when we talked about

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fall.

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We may have alluded to it a little bit, but I'd like to talk about it in some detail,

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if you don't mind, Dave.

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And that's this concept of sin.

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You know, what about sin?

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You know, we we we know that sin is part of our our mortal experience.

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We know that it affects us.

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We know that none of us can sin in a bubble.

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And that means that we're also affected by the sins of others.

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Talk about that a little bit.

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Well, first of all, Scott, I sin gets a bad rap and it should because it because it can

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keep us from God.

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But but listen to this scripture.

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And if I too, if there is no sin, there is no righteousness.

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What does that mean, Scott?

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If there's no sin, there's no righteousness.

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If there be no righteousness, there be no happiness.

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And if there be no righteousness or happiness, there be no punishment or misery.

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And if these things are not, there is no God.

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I just the plan of God demands that there be sin and that there be opposition.

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And if there weren't sin and there weren't opposition, there would not be righteousness

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and there would not be exaltation.

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So I number one, I think we have to just understand that sin is not just the I mean, I know Satan

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is the source of all sin, but that sin was part of the Father's plan and and it's not

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that he created it.

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God didn't create evil.

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OK, I know that's a whole long philosophical thing that has been written about and books

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and and plays and everything else been written on.

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Is God the the author of of evil?

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Well, God is not the author of evil, but it is part of this universe because people will

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always have their agency and there will always be a choice between good and evil.

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God did not create agency.

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That is part of that's the ultimate thing that he tried to protect.

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And if it were not for agency and if we were not for good and for evil, then there would

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not be righteousness.

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There wouldn't be happiness, ultimately.

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So I just think that we again need to understand that sin is part of the plan, that we all

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understand that we're going to experience it, either that we're going to act out and

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sin ourselves, of course, and we do every day, and that we're going to experience the

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effects of sin from others every day in in some way, minor or major, but that we we just

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understand the plan.

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I like you know, you're reading from Second Nephi, chapter two.

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I'm going to read verse eleven there, too.

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That that one.

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Yeah, opposition in all for there must needs be that there is opposition in all things

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and then skipping down.

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If not so, righteousness not could could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither

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holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad.

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Therefore all things must be a compound in one.

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Wherefore if we should be one body, it must needs remain as dead, having no life, neither

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death nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

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So yeah, I love that the doctrine that we get from Restoration Scripture and others

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as well, Dave, in this topic, but just really help us to understand our relationship with

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mortality and sin.

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You know, where this is kind of I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's it's kind of

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funny and it's true that when I when I moved to Minnesota, I became and that was in my

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thirties and and moving from Utah and our culture and moving back to Minnesota, I moved

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back among a wonderful group of people who are Lutheran.

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I mean, a large part of Minnesota, they're Norwegians and Swedes and and they're it's

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heavy Lutheran country.

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And I loved listen to Garrison Keeler.

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And I even went to a few of his shows.

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And if you don't know Garrison Keeler, you ought to you ought to look him up and listen

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to his stories about Lake Wobegon.

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These are fictional stories, but stories that I think that he to some degree lived through.

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He grew up in Minnesota and then he became a great playwright and author.

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And anyway, he ends up back in Minnesota and he does this this.

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00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,840
It used to be on public radio every week.

377
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,840
Yeah.

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00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,480
Lake Wobegon, Garrison Keeler.

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And I found it delightful the way he would talk about sin because Lutherans know their

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00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,800
sinners, Scott.

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Yeah.

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Lutherans know their sinners and they have accepted that in their life.

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And I found that to be somewhat healthy to to see myself as living in a place of sin

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as a sinner.

385
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,460
I you might you're probably going to have to cut this, Scott.

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But he tells the story of he says, you know, Lutherans, we we all know that we're sinners.

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We all know that we're sinners.

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But he said, my my cousin didn't believe that she she didn't believe she was a sinner.

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So she went to California.

390
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,300
She went to California and she became a stripper.

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And that was because she didn't she didn't think of herself as being a sinner.

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00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:45,600
Well, there were so many stories just and anecdotes about sin that Garrison Keeler would

393
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:46,600
share.

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And I began to kind of think about it.

395
00:27:50,340 --> 00:27:52,120
And it's scriptural, Scott.

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00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:53,120
Yeah.

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The Paul identifies it in Romans that we're all sinners and they've come short of the

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glory of God and John in his letters in the epistles of John that anyone who says that

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00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,880
they're not a sinner is a liar.

400
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,880
I mean, we're we just have to accept that fact.

401
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:18,280
And then as soon as we accept it, acknowledge it, we just talked about this, then we need

402
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:26,480
to remember we need to remember that the atonement of Jesus Christ allows us to choose not to

403
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:35,200
be acted upon, but to act and to choose not to sin and to quickly speedily love that term

404
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,880
in the scriptures, speedily repent when we do sin.

405
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,040
So I think it's it's a critical that we acknowledge.

406
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,920
I think there's a parable in Luke 18, 9 through 14, Scott.

407
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,920
And I want to I want to read this in terms of this discussion for just a moment.

408
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,240
Luke 18, verses nine through 14.

409
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,800
Why don't you read it, Scott?

410
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:02,960
I've been talking too much.

411
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:09,160
You read it to nine through 14 of Luke, chapter 18.

412
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And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous

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and despised others.

414
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,640
Now, just let that set in.

415
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,160
What's he saying?

416
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,840
We all I don't know if I can speak for everybody, but I think I probably can.

417
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,080
But I'm pretty sure a few people just had a few faces go in front of them.

418
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,800
We've all had this experience, right?

419
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,160
So start over.

420
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,520
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous

421
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,280
and despised others.

422
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,440
Two men went up to the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, the other a publican.

423
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,800
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself.

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God, I thank thee that I am not as other men are extortioners, unjust adulterers, or even

425
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as this publican.

426
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I fast twice in the week.

427
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I give tithes of all that I possess.

428
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And the publican standing afar off would not lift up so much of his eyes unto heaven, but

429
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:12,680
smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me, a sinner.

430
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,800
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other.

431
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:23,180
For everyone that exalted himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall

432
00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:25,360
be exalted.

433
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,160
What do you get out of that?

434
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,800
Well, I get a lot out of that.

435
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,720
I remember back, I'm looking at my old missionary scriptures right now, but I remember back

436
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,760
at a time having this discussion with a couple of missionaries.

437
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,080
What does that mean to humble yourself?

438
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,000
And what does it mean to be abased if we don't?

439
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:54,680
And I think that wisdom through age, through living life, gives us meaning to that scripture.

440
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,600
I think that we all pretty well know, or we should know, kind of what that means.

441
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,160
I know that when I am humble, when I'm humble, I'm inviting the Spirit of my Heavenly Father

442
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,500
to be with me.

443
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:07,500
My heart's open.

444
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:08,520
You're talking about heart.

445
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:14,980
We're talking about the effects of Valentine's Day and the representation of the heart.

446
00:31:14,980 --> 00:31:19,160
If my heart's open, then I have that, and I feel humble.

447
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:25,280
But if I make myself prideful, which is, you know, I experience this, and maybe I've experienced

448
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,580
some of this lately.

449
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:32,360
If I become prideful, if I become the guru, if I become the expert in my own mind, so

450
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,360
to speak, then eventually I become abased.

451
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,760
Now what does abased mean to me?

452
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,360
That means just knocked right off my horse, Dave.

453
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,360
Yeah, it just sets you up for failure.

454
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:51,040
I mean, I just think it's so interesting the way Jesus in this parable compares these two

455
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,960
individuals, you know, the one who fasts twice a week.

456
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,160
Come on, some of us don't have our time fasting once a month.

457
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,760
This guy fasted twice a week.

458
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,680
And he says, and I give tithes of all I possess.

459
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:04,680
I pay my tithing.

460
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,680
I'm doing all this stuff.

461
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:11,280
And then he says, and the publican standing afar off, he would not lift up so much as

462
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,280
his eyes to heaven.

463
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,040
I mean, he doesn't think he's going to make it to heaven.

464
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,120
And he smokes upon his breasts and he's kind of sackcloth and ashes.

465
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,240
And he's saying, God be merciful to me, a sinner.

466
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:31,160
And Jesus says, I tell you this man, the sinner, he went down to his house justified rather

467
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:37,280
than the good guy who fast twice a week and pays his tithing for everyone that exalted

468
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,400
himself shall be abased.

469
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,560
And he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

470
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:51,480
I just I'm so grateful that in the scriptures, the doctrine is very clear that without Jesus

471
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,280
Christ and his atonement, none of us have a shot.

472
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,880
And I heard the I heard the individual who wrote the Bible dictionary say this got in

473
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,880
a in a meeting.

474
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,360
I don't think he ever wrote this.

475
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,840
I've never I've never seen it in writing of all the writings of Brother Robert J. Matthews.

476
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,800
If somebody can find that for me in writing, I would love to have it as a source.

477
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,240
But I heard him say this and I think multiple times.

478
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:25,800
And he said, you know, even if it were possible that we could keep all the commandments without

479
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,680
Jesus Christ, we'd still go to hell.

480
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,740
Even if you never sinned, you would still go to hell.

481
00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:39,360
And then his reference for that, of course, the second Nephi nine.

482
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,920
And he talks about the fact that without Christ and the atonement, because we're all tainted

483
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,560
by sin and we all spiritually die and we all physically die, that there would be no hope

484
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,480
for us because there would be no resurrection.

485
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,860
And if there's no resurrection, none of us have a shot.

486
00:33:56,860 --> 00:34:04,720
We would all not just we would all not go to heaven, but we would all become the sons

487
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,120
of perdition of perdition.

488
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,680
We would sons and daughters subject to the devil, subject to the devil.

489
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,440
Yeah, I think that's Reverend Emerson.

490
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,440
Exactly.

491
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,880
I just think it's critical that we appreciate our sins.

492
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,480
I remember President Faust many years ago.

493
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,080
In fact, I love this so much.

494
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:28,640
I've kept it over the years in in some of my notes, but President Faust and I remember

495
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,360
how humble he used to be, how humble he was.

496
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:36,840
I remember the story he told about not cutting wood for his grandma.

497
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,480
He watched his grandma.

498
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:45,840
He tells the story and he cried when he told this story of watching his grandma cut firewood

499
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:52,880
as a young man and him not going out to help her and how bad he felt about that for so

500
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:53,880
many years.

501
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,240
I mean, that was the humility of President James E. Faust, an attorney, a prominent attorney

502
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:00,720
and so much.

503
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:04,440
He had so much going for him from a worldly view.

504
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,360
Yet he was still in the depths of humility.

505
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,600
But he grew up in Delta.

506
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:10,600
That's it.

507
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:16,560
Delta rabbits and humble, humble circumstances.

508
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,920
Anyway, he wrote this is in the April 1991 conference.

509
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:32,120
The denial of our own sins, of our own selfishness, of our own fall and weakness is like a crown

510
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:40,080
of thorns, which keeps us from moving up one more step in our personal growth, perhaps

511
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:47,480
worse than sin is the denial of sin in our lives.

512
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,720
Think of that, Scott.

513
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:57,520
Perhaps worse than sin is the denial of our own personal sins.

514
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,120
I think that's what Jesus was teaching in that in that parable.

515
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:09,440
So as we think about sin, it's, I think, really important that we that we talk a little bit

516
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:10,720
more about it.

517
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:18,400
And I love this this quote from President Brigham Young.

518
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,080
I think we quoted this before.

519
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:26,840
The spirits that live in these tabernacles were as pure as the heavens when they entered

520
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,140
them.

521
00:36:28,140 --> 00:36:33,560
They came to tabernacles that are contaminated by the fall.

522
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:39,120
We're kind of wired, really, kind of as fallen mortal beings, Scott.

523
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,160
I think it's kind of in our physical DNA that we will sin.

524
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,080
We're contaminated in the flesh.

525
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,800
We're not totally depraved, but we're contaminated.

526
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:58,080
And then he says this scripture from Psalms, which says that in sin did my mother conceive

527
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,080
me.

528
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:04,920
OK, we don't believe we're conceived in sin, but we do believe that we are conceived in

529
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:12,200
a world of sin by sinners, mortal parents.

530
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:17,400
This scripture has established in the minds of some the doctrine of total depravity, that

531
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,300
it is impossible for them to have one good thought, that they are altogether sinful,

532
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:25,680
that there is no good, no soundness, no spiritual health in them.

533
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,640
Well, this is not correct.

534
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,640
Yet we do have a warfare continually within us.

535
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:37,160
We have to contend against evil passions and thoughts or the seeds of iniquity that are

536
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,600
sown into the flesh through the fall.

537
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:47,200
Elder Bednar said, in mortality we are all tempted by the flesh.

538
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,200
The very elements out of which our bodies were created are by nature fallen and ever

539
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,040
subject to the pull of sin, corruption and death.

540
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:03,440
But we can, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, increase our capacity to overcome

541
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,960
the desires of the flesh and temptations.

542
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:14,160
When we make mistakes, as we transgress in sin, we can repent and become clean, even

543
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:21,120
changed through the redeeming power of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

544
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:31,040
So when I think of sin, Scott, I think of darn it, I did it again, but I don't flog

545
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,100
myself, beat myself up, condemn myself.

546
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:45,260
There should be no condemnation or contempt towards ourselves or others because we sin.

547
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:47,440
And we shouldn't identify with it either.

548
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,520
And we shouldn't identify with it.

549
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:55,200
We talked about that several episodes ago as well, that our identity should not be attached

550
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,160
to these mortal experiences, sin or otherwise.

551
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:07,480
You know, because of the fall and because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, Elder Bruce

552
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:14,000
Hafen used to love it when he would teach, because of these doctrines, the doctrine of

553
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,720
the fall and the atonement, we may learn from our experience without ever being condemned

554
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,520
by it.

555
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,960
We can learn from sin without being condemned by it.

556
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,800
And I think that's just a really healthy way to see it.

557
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:35,880
Now, it's always better, of course, this is at President Benson, it's always better

558
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:45,800
to prepare and prevent than to repair and repent.

559
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,440
We need to remember that, Scott.

560
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,440
I like that.

561
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:58,320
It is always better to prepare and prevent rather than repair and repent.

562
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:05,960
So, please, we shouldn't use the doctrine of the fall as any excuse or justification,

563
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,920
self justification to sin.

564
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,680
However, it is part of our daily life.

565
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,480
And elders Richard G. Scott, we shared a lot of quotes today on this doctrine because I

566
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,720
think the brother taught it so well.

567
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:26,600
But Elder Richard G. Scott said years ago in conference, you must know that Saint can

568
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:34,560
have no power over you, even though we may sin, Saint can have no power over you except

569
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,680
as permitted.

570
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:48,640
Get this, by fear, by your indolence, your disobedience and your natural man appetites.

571
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:58,880
As you remember, you are an eternal being with latent capacities derived from divine

572
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,760
parentage.

573
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:07,680
You will not allow yourself to be limited by the confining world, mortal fallen world,

574
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,240
that Satan would have you believe is all that exists.

575
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:17,840
If you think it's too hard and that you are too imperfect and you will not be able to

576
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:24,160
do it, you are slipping into Satan's world.

577
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:32,840
Garner strength by remembering that you can do anything the Lord asks you to do through

578
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,280
the power and grace of His atoning sacrifice.

579
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:45,620
When needed, He will see that you get the required help as you do all you are capable

580
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:46,620
of doing.

581
00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:53,800
And sometimes all we are capable of doing Scott is to cry out for help.

582
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:59,440
Sometimes all we can do is to pray and to repent.

583
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:06,480
And even sometimes that crying out will require just a ton of effort and energy on our parts.

584
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,280
I see that as I see people come in to the rooms of recovery.

585
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:17,560
I know of a couple of individuals right now and at any given time I could make this comment,

586
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,520
but I know of a couple of individuals right now that are struggling with their addictions.

587
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,460
You know, which we could call sin, call it what you want it to call it, but it's because

588
00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:29,440
of the fall that we struggle with that.

589
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,440
For sure.

590
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,600
But until we really understand and getting back to some of the things that we've talked

591
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,280
about until we really understand who we are and whose we are and that relationship and

592
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:45,560
how it all comes together for us, this doctrine can be difficult.

593
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,480
And that's why that's and I don't know maybe difficult is the right word to use, but it

594
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,200
can be difficult for some to swallow or to embrace.

595
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,280
But I think that's why we talk about the things that we've talked about before we talk about

596
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,720
this for that very reason.

597
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:05,280
Once we've established that and know who we are, know who He is, know whose we are, know

598
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:15,800
that His redeeming blood has purchased us, then that is a more smooth transition.

599
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:22,240
As I transition out of those mortal experiences, some of those we talked about this morning,

600
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:30,480
as I transition out of those mortal experiences and into the love of Jesus Christ and His

601
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,040
redeeming sacrifice.

602
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:41,360
And as I transition into that, it's less, it requires less effort if I have that understanding

603
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,360
before.

604
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,480
Yeah, no doubt about it.

605
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,880
You know, the problem with sin and the reason we condemn sin and the reason God condemns

606
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:59,240
sin, right, is because it leads to spiritual death and it takes us away from God and it

607
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:03,440
destroys relationships on so many levels.

608
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,160
It destroys relationships.

609
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:14,680
Elder Scott said in his description of sin in the General Conference 2009, he said, sin

610
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,760
is addictive.

611
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,640
I think that's probably true, Scott.

612
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,640
I do too.

613
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:28,080
Because of the natural man mortality, how we're wired, it seems like all sin is addictive.

614
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,220
And he says, he goes on to say, it is self degenerating.

615
00:44:33,220 --> 00:44:36,980
It is conducive to other strains of corruption.

616
00:44:36,980 --> 00:44:40,740
It is deadening to our spirituality.

617
00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:44,760
It destroys our conscience and our reason.

618
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,360
It is blinding to reality.

619
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,600
It is contagious.

620
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,540
It is destructive to mind, to body and spirit.

621
00:44:54,540 --> 00:44:59,840
It is spiritually sin, he says, is spiritually corrosive.

622
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:06,540
Unrestrained sin becomes all consuming.

623
00:45:06,540 --> 00:45:14,640
It is only overcome through Jesus Christ and our repentance.

624
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:23,960
That's quite a damning list of the effects of sin and what sin, the definition of sin.

625
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,440
Well, that's one way to look at it, is damning.

626
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,360
The other way to look at it is because of the way that Elder Scott, is that who?

627
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:39,240
Because of the way that he positions that, is an understanding of that doctrinal truth

628
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,760
becomes freeing also.

629
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,480
Yeah, right.

630
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:48,440
Freezes from all of those things that we talk about that do so easily beset us.

631
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,680
We read Nephi, just last week, we talked about how Nephi and these things that do so easily

632
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:54,680
beset me.

633
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:55,680
Right.

634
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,680
Yeah.

635
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,680
Yeah.

636
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:58,680
Just drifting.

637
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:59,680
Yeah.

638
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:00,680
Going with the flow.

639
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:09,880
You know, James in the Bible, he defines sin as doing knowingly, doing wrong when you know

640
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:10,880
what is right.

641
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:11,880
Right.

642
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:12,880
Right.

643
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:17,400
You know, there's so many people I think who don't have the law or don't have the commandments

644
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,160
or don't have, they're not sinning because they don't know.

645
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,640
They haven't, no one's given them the law or the commandments.

646
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:32,040
On the other hand, Scott, all mankind has the light of Christ and all mankind has a

647
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:38,160
conscience and if they would listen to their conscience, they would know the basic principles

648
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,600
of right between wrong.

649
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:48,360
And Elder Uchtdorf, President Uchtdorf on this kind of, in this same vein, his definition

650
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:57,320
of sin is quote, sin is the willful transgression of divine law.

651
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:02,640
The atonement of Jesus Christ is the gift of God to his children to correct and overcome

652
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,400
the consequences of sin.

653
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:12,080
God loves all of his children and he will never cease to love and to hope for us.

654
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,880
Christ came to save us, to redeem us.

655
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:21,320
If we have taken a wrong course, the atonement of Jesus Christ can give us the assurance

656
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:27,360
that sin is not a point of no return.

657
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:36,880
A safe return is possible if we will follow God's plan for our salvation and redemption.

658
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,600
I love that he makes this point.

659
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,640
I think that was kind of the title of his talk, the point of no return.

660
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,840
Sin is not.

661
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:51,080
It never will be a point of no return because of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

662
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,560
You know, I used to get asked the question a lot, Scott, about this may be a good place

663
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,240
to answer it and address it.

664
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:02,800
Maybe some of our listeners have asked this question.

665
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,680
What about the sons of perdition?

666
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:09,160
Will they ever be able to repent?

667
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,240
Will they ever be able to come back?

668
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:15,280
Can you progress from kingdom to kingdom?

669
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,280
What about murderers?

670
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:22,520
Okay, I asked that question to Brother Matthews.

671
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,440
We were actually in the car one day.

672
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:32,240
He had come back, flown back to Minnesota, staying in my home and was teaching our…

673
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:38,320
I was the area director and we had all the coordinators come in from all over the Midwest.

674
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,200
Brother Matthews was teaching us about the fall and the atonement for one whole week,

675
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,200
eight hours a day.

676
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,120
Oh my goodness, that was a week I'll never forget.

677
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:53,400
And then staying in our home and I would stay up late with him asking him questions, get

678
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,720
up in the morning and study the scriptures with him.

679
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:57,320
Anyway, we were right in the car.

680
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:58,920
This was in the car.

681
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,400
And we were coming back to my home from having eight hours of instruction from him.

682
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,040
And I just asked him, I get asked the question a lot, Brother Matthews, about sons of perdition.

683
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:13,640
Will they ever be able to repent?

684
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:19,400
And I think I had probably taught over and over again that no, where I am…

685
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,200
I mean this is right, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 and many other places where God

686
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,320
says no, where I am they cannot come, world's without end.

687
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,080
And it sounds pretty final.

688
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:36,280
So I was a little surprised by his answer and he turned to Doctrine and Covenants section

689
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,480
29, Scott.

690
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,240
Let's just go there real quickly and take us a minute to turn to it.

691
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:47,720
But let's go to Doctrine and Covenants section 29 and this is a description of the sons of

692
00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:49,160
perdition.

693
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:55,400
I love this revelation given through the Prophet Joseph Smith in Fayette, New York about six

694
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,240
months after the church had been organized in 1830.

695
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:06,880
And in describing, let's start with verse 28 Scott and he's talking about sons of perdition

696
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,000
here, verse 28.

697
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:15,160
Wherefore I will say unto them, Depart from me ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared

698
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,480
for the devil and his angels.

699
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,760
Everlasting fire, it sounds pretty permanent.

700
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:21,760
Sounds everlasting.

701
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,280
And verse 29.

702
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,760
And now behold I say unto you, Never at any time have I declared from mine own mouth that

703
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:35,280
they should return, for where I am they cannot come, for they have no power.

704
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,280
Right.

705
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,760
So they have no power.

706
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,860
Again that sounds pretty final.

707
00:50:40,860 --> 00:50:48,760
But Brother Matthews emphasized the first line of verse 30.

708
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:55,280
But remember that all my judgments are not given unto men.

709
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:01,400
So Brother Matthews just in his personal commentary, this was to me, just him and me, and so I

710
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,080
don't even know if I should be sharing this story.

711
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:13,240
But he said, so I don't know David, the Lord says to remember he hasn't given us all his

712
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:14,460
judgments.

713
00:51:14,460 --> 00:51:16,440
He hasn't told us everything.

714
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,780
He hasn't told us from the beginning to the end.

715
00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:26,040
We don't know everything and all his judgments have been kept by him and not shared with

716
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,600
us.

717
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:33,720
And he said, I hope, I hope that there's still maybe a chance for them.

718
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:36,320
Well we just, we don't know.

719
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:41,040
But I know I don't want to have to experience outer darkness.

720
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:46,780
And maybe some, it'll be, right, it'll ultimately depend on individuals and choices that they

721
00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:52,000
make and who they want to give their heart to and where their heart is.

722
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,600
But we need to not condemn the worst of sinners.

723
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,360
We don't, we don't know.

724
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,520
We condemn sin.

725
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:06,760
But if Jesus can't condemn a woman caught in the very act of adultery, who am I to condemn

726
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:08,460
me?

727
00:52:08,460 --> 00:52:10,280
Who am I to condemn you?

728
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,320
Who am I to condemn anybody else?

729
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:17,800
We hate sin, but we love sinners.

730
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,280
I've always thought this was interesting.

731
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:24,360
I don't know who said this, but I heard this once and I wrote it down and I'm sorry I don't

732
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,960
have a source.

733
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:31,880
But someone once said, we cannot break the commandments.

734
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,480
We break ourselves against them.

735
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,840
Sin is a gross form of self-deception.

736
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,240
Will you read that again?

737
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:45,480
We cannot break the commandments.

738
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:52,320
We break ourselves against them.

739
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,360
And then again, the self-deception?

740
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,800
It's self-deception.

741
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,960
Sin is a form of self-deception.

742
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:00,960
What do you mean by that?

743
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,040
What does that mean?

744
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,200
We know what's right or wrong, you know?

745
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:11,720
Terry Warner's written about this, Arbinger and others, you know, which I've loved.

746
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:22,040
I think sin is to blame and to blame ourselves, to blame others, and to not sin means that's

747
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,360
what it means to be blameless.

748
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:31,120
But we are always, when we are sinning, we are deceiving ourselves.

749
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:36,200
Again, if we don't know what the truth is and we don't know what the commandments are,

750
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,480
that's a different deal.

751
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:44,200
But we do have the light of Christ, and if we go against our conscience, that's self-deception.

752
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:50,200
If we ignore the light and we go against the light, that's self-deception.

753
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:58,160
And really, Scott, it's as simple as we feel prompted to do something good, and if we don't

754
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,760
do it, we are sinning.

755
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,920
There's two kinds of sin, Scott.

756
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:11,200
There's the sins of commission, where we break ourselves against the commandments, or we

757
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:19,760
break the commandments, or to omission, the sins of omission, where we don't do what we

758
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,640
know is right.

759
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:29,400
And I think that can be as simple, I mean, there's every degree of sin possible, and

760
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:38,120
I think it can be as simple as I feel impressed to go to do something for my wife, to go get

761
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:39,120
something.

762
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,360
This is so silly.

763
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:47,920
But this morning I was going downstairs and I noticed my wife had left her plate and her

764
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:53,200
McDonald's cup and her stuff upstairs in our little loft, you know.

765
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,480
And I thought, I should go get that and throw that away for her.

766
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:58,480
And did you?

767
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,800
And I thought, well, no, she did that, you know, that's her trash.

768
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,360
That sounds like an example straight out of the book.

769
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,720
I'm just saying, it's this simple, it's simple little things.

770
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:17,960
And then I caught myself, Scott, and I thought, no, follow your conscience, do what you know

771
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,920
is right, do good here, do some good.

772
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:28,000
I had gone down the stairs about three stairs, three steps, when I thought all that through

773
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,560
in a flash.

774
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:35,880
And believe me, I am so imperfect at this and so many times I sin, every day I sin because

775
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,760
I go against the light of my conscience.

776
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:46,760
But this time, this one time, I stopped, I went back up the three steps, went into our

777
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:54,920
loft, got the paper plate and the wrapper and the McDonald's cup and trash and took

778
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,520
it downstairs and threw it away.

779
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:57,560
Well, you did right.

780
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,000
And I thought, she'll probably never know that, she'll probably not notice that or know

781
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,840
that or think about it.

782
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,760
But I did what I knew was right.

783
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,000
If I wouldn't have done that, Scott, I would have sinned.

784
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,200
And you would be feeling like I feel right now.

785
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,960
Well, I feel like that.

786
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,720
I'll feel like that later today.

787
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:21,980
Right, because I have, well, yeah, and I say that somewhat flippantly because I have an

788
00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:24,000
experience very similar to that.

789
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,040
I was in the grocery store just this past week, and I'm in a hurry.

790
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,720
I had to run in and grab something and hurry back because I had to teach a class online

791
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:38,000
and I only had a short window to in which to do this and it was snowing and cold and

792
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,420
it was just terrible.

793
00:56:40,420 --> 00:56:46,600
And so I come running out, oh, and I had worn my running shoes and so my feet are wet now,

794
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,840
and I'm cold and I didn't bring a coat.

795
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,040
And so here I am, classic example.

796
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,160
I'm extolling all of my own virtues.

797
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:55,480
I'm such a hard worker.

798
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,560
I'm just, I'm running this errand probably for my wife or whatever.

799
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,160
I come out and there's this guy with his hood up.

800
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,200
He's parked right next to me.

801
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:07,240
Parked right next to me.

802
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:12,920
He's got his hood up and he's trying to make this battery thing work to charge his battery

803
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:13,920
to start his car.

804
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,560
I have jumper cables in my truck.

805
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,760
I had the thought, I know you're feeling bad for me now.

806
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,520
I had the thought, Scott, you should really help that guy.

807
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:23,680
You definitely should.

808
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,440
I ignored that.

809
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:26,440
I saw that.

810
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:27,440
You ignored that prompting.

811
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:28,440
I did.

812
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:29,440
I ignored that.

813
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,360
And that was a week or so.

814
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,720
That was the last week since our last podcast, but I have been haunted by that.

815
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,640
I wish I could find that guy, right?

816
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,960
But it is self-deception because I'm deceiving myself to thinking I am too busy.

817
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,240
What the heck's wrong with him?

818
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,940
Why won't his car run right?

819
00:57:47,940 --> 00:57:49,420
Why isn't he keeping it maintained?

820
00:57:49,420 --> 00:57:53,920
And I start going through all these justification things in my head while I get in my truck.

821
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:59,240
Lights are flashing on my dashboard because I need something fixed and I drive home.

822
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,760
Well that reminds me of the story that's told.

823
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:07,720
I don't know the source or the exact context of this, but there's a teacher.

824
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,120
He's teaching a religion course.

825
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,920
This may have been BYU religion or institute or even some other church at some other seminary.

826
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:14,920
I don't know.

827
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:21,240
But there's a course taught on religion and they've been studying the New Testament and

828
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:26,520
they're going to take a test on the Sermon on the Mount.

829
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:27,960
And this is an important test.

830
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,240
It's going to make a difference in their grade, right?

831
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:37,120
And the teacher plants on the way they can only come to his class a few ways.

832
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:42,600
And he plants in all the ways that they can come, the way they can access the classroom.

833
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:48,800
He puts in these people, these individuals who are asking for help, who are, I don't

834
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,960
know if they're begging, but they're definitely in trouble.

835
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:52,960
And it's obvious.

836
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,000
And they need help and it's obvious.

837
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:05,280
And all of these children, all of these students come into class to take a test on how they've

838
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:13,160
mastered the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes and yet they have ignored on their way.

839
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,440
It's one thing to know it.

840
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,040
And they all fail the test.

841
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:22,840
The teacher tells them the test was how many of you helped these individuals who came in

842
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:23,840
today?

843
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,600
And if you didn't, you haven't mastered it.

844
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:35,240
Anyway, so true, Scott, that we all, when we ignore the promptings or the light of Christ,

845
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:43,720
it's amazing how we all do that multiple times, probably a day.

846
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:49,600
Someone said this, sin is a shortcut gone bad.

847
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,960
Sin is a shortcut gone bad.

848
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,120
Now, I don't know, do you know what that means?

849
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,960
I've had some bad shortcuts.

850
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,240
There's no question about that.

851
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,640
I think some of those I could possibly.

852
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:08,360
I think for many people, Scott, sin is a shortcut to try to find happiness.

853
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:13,440
Sin is a shortcut to try to get something that they want without it, without the timing

854
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:18,740
being right or without the place or the person or all of that.

855
01:00:18,740 --> 01:00:25,760
So I think that this is really appropriate that I think sin is usually don't know that's

856
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,480
perfect definition of it, but I think it's usually some sort of shortcut.

857
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:31,480
Right?

858
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:32,480
What?

859
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:33,480
What's what's my outcome?

860
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:34,480
What's my pain?

861
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,120
What's the word they use in the in the dictionary?

862
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:38,120
Recovery?

863
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:39,120
What's my payoff?

864
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:40,120
What's my payoff?

865
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,120
Yeah, yeah, they're looking for a payoff.

866
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,120
Yeah.

867
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,080
And they're looking for it in a shortcut sort of way.

868
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,040
Oh, yeah.

869
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,080
That leads to sin.

870
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:51,080
Yeah.

871
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:52,080
Yeah.

872
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,080
That they're looking.

873
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:54,760
They're looking for a payoff.

874
01:00:54,760 --> 01:01:02,480
And and heavens, I've had people I've had students tell me that, wow, alcohol.

875
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,080
Drugs, those kinds of things.

876
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:07,080
Wow.

877
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,680
They really have a great payoff.

878
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:09,680
Yeah.

879
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,680
Until until they don't anymore.

880
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:13,680
Truth.

881
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,680
I mean, and that really is the truth until they don't anymore.

882
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,280
Sin has its appeal, Scott.

883
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:21,280
Yeah.

884
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,600
Sin has its appeal.

885
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,440
It is a shortcut.

886
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:30,880
And when you bring that up, you know, in a rediction addiction recovery kind of lens,

887
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,760
so to speak, that's it's it's all about that.

888
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,200
It's all about that there.

889
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,760
It's how do I change the way I feel?

890
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:38,760
We all know.

891
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:39,760
Well, we don't know.

892
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,200
But we know that we can change the way we feel.

893
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,600
We talked about that at the beginning of the podcast by simply praying with all earnestness

894
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:52,680
of heart to ask for Christ's love to be in our lives or in the lives of those that we're

895
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,480
struggling with.

896
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,320
And that takes some effort.

897
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:58,560
That takes some humility.

898
01:01:58,560 --> 01:01:59,560
That takes some work.

899
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:01,200
And it seems easy.

900
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:07,400
You know, the accuser or the saint has made it look a lot easier for us if we can just

901
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:14,040
change the way we feel through drugs or alcohol than we have accomplished seemingly and erroneously

902
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:15,040
to think this.

903
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:19,120
But we think seeming seemingly that we've changed the way we felt.

904
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,360
Well, there's no shortcut to redemption.

905
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:28,440
No, I know that there there are probably lots of shortcuts to hell.

906
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,400
But there's there's no shortcut to redemption.

907
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:37,600
And and yet it's not difficult and it's not confusing.

908
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:42,840
It really is simple and it's not always easy, but it is simple.

909
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:50,440
And I know that all sin, all sin can be forgiven.

910
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:51,440
All sin.

911
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:59,360
I mean, that's if we're teaching doctrine, there's two sins that cannot be forgiven.

912
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,660
And one of those sins cannot even be pardoned.

913
01:03:03,660 --> 01:03:08,400
You know, first degree murder, I think there's many different degrees of murder, but certain

914
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:17,720
degrees of murder are unforgiven, unforgivable and denying the Holy Ghost is unpardonable.

915
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,960
But all other sins are forgivable.

916
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:29,400
Sin is forgivable and sin can be overcome because of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

917
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:34,020
And there's no shortcut to what he did for us.

918
01:03:34,020 --> 01:03:39,160
The price he paid, there was no shortcutting that he went through it all.

919
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,420
He felt it all.

920
01:03:40,420 --> 01:03:42,860
He felt all sin.

921
01:03:42,860 --> 01:03:45,800
He felt all spiritual death.

922
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,820
He suffered it all and for it all.

923
01:03:49,820 --> 01:03:59,760
And there's no shortcut in us receiving that gift or that sacrifice by receiving him and

924
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:07,920
repenting of our sins and becoming a true follower and disciple of Jesus Christ.

925
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:15,620
And I pray that we might acknowledge sin, we might understand it, what it is, how it

926
01:04:15,620 --> 01:04:20,840
presents itself to us in our lives, that we'll understand that it's part of the plan, the

927
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:28,880
plan demanded, it will always be, always be a part of our mortality, and yet through the

928
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:35,920
atonement of Jesus Christ, we can overcome it, be free from it.

929
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:42,440
Not always, not continually, not forever, but be forgiven of it and free from it as

930
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,920
we repent and are forgiven.

931
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,280
And we can overcome through the atonement of Jesus Christ, which we're going to, such

932
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,280
an important part of the course, we're going to start talking about the atonement of Jesus

933
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,440
Christ in the next few weeks.

934
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:03,440
And we can not only overcome our own sins, but we can overcome the sins that have been

935
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:13,880
committed against us, carried out upon us through the atonement of Jesus Christ by forgiving,

936
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:19,840
which is also a gift of the atonement of Jesus Christ, to be able to have the power to forgive

937
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:23,300
others as we forgive.

938
01:05:23,300 --> 01:05:33,400
And so I look forward to moving on from the fall and sin and the negative effects of mortality

939
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:41,640
and to talk about in the coming weeks the power and the blessings, the gifts of mercy,

940
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:46,840
grace in our life through the atonement of Christ.

941
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:54,680
Today we have focused on the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve, the effects of the fall

942
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:56,360
of us all.

943
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,060
And as we've done that, we've focused quite a bit on sin.

944
01:05:59,060 --> 01:06:06,300
We focused also on our own deception in various ways and so on.

945
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:12,120
Next week we will have a guest on, we've already recorded this and it's a wonderful recording

946
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:19,480
of some friends of ours who have also experienced the effects of the fall in ways that we haven't

947
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:20,480
talked about.

948
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,880
Well, I guess we talked quite a bit about it when we had Jorian Mandy on it earlier

949
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,880
this season as well.

950
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:34,020
But this next episode we're going to be looking into the effects of the fall in a way that

951
01:06:34,020 --> 01:06:38,100
I think many will also be able to relate to.

952
01:06:38,100 --> 01:06:40,820
So we invite you to join us next week as we do that.

953
01:06:40,820 --> 01:06:48,000
This week we invite you to consider and take a look in our own lives where maybe self-deception

954
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:56,380
has entered in, where maybe sin is finding its way into our lives in ways that keep us

955
01:06:56,380 --> 01:06:58,240
from the spirit of our Heavenly Father.

956
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:02,280
And I promise that as we do that and as we rely on the merits of Him who's mighty to

957
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:07,740
save even Jesus Christ our Savior through the power of His Atonement, I promise us that

958
01:07:07,740 --> 01:07:13,820
we will all be able to feel the effects of the Atonement rather than the effects of the

959
01:07:13,820 --> 01:07:14,820
fall.

960
01:07:14,820 --> 01:07:15,880
And that's our prayer.

961
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,080
We're grateful to be with you.

962
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:18,520
Thanks for being with us today.

963
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:23,620
And for all of your support, please remember that you can send us emails and suggestions

964
01:07:23,620 --> 01:07:27,140
to heredeemsus at gmail.com.

965
01:07:27,140 --> 01:07:28,140
Thanks for being with us, everybody.

966
01:07:28,140 --> 01:07:54,140
We'll see you next week.