Well hello there everybody and welcome to another podcast of Redeemed Through His Blood.
My name is Scott Durfey, I want to be the first to welcome you out today, but I have
David Durfey here with me as well as always and he'd also like to welcome you all here.
To be back Scott, I was in Orlando, man that was so fun, so fun to go to Orlando in this
time of year and see some things, a few things I hadn't seen before.
I'll touch on that today a little bit with our subject continuing our discussion of who
are we?
It's been a good week, great podcast last week, we've already had a few people reach
out in response to that and as we sort of wrapped up, and I know we never wrap up the
discussion about who we really are, that's probably a theme that just kind of looms throughout
the entirety of the podcast, right, is just a remembrance of who we are.
I know we'll talk a little bit about that today too as we begin to move into the fall
of Adam and Eve and the fall of us all and all of those things, Dave, but I've been reflecting
a lot and I've actually had an opportunity twice this week to share with a couple in
one situation that we were really kind of struggling with their own spiritual identity
and I think that through our Heavenly Father's Spirit, we've been able to maybe grasp a remembrance
of who we are there and a couple other places.
There's just great blessings that come from that, right?
Yeah, no doubt about it.
I've always loved the truth, the thought that has been shared by lots of different people
in lots of different ways is that we are what we think.
I think there was Alan many years ago, over a hundred years ago, wrote a book about that,
that you're the sum of your thoughts.
Some people say that you are the sum of your habits and all of that I think is to some
degree true, but you know, quite a while ago, early in the morning, I was thinking about
that and I actually wrote this down, Scott.
More than your thoughts and actions determine who you are, knowing who you are determines
your thoughts and actions and that just rings true to me that I know that none of us are
perfect in our thoughts or in our actions, but if we were perfect in our knowledge and
understanding or if we could, I don't know whether we'll ever be perfect in our understanding
in this life of that either, but if we can truly know who we are, it definitely influences
our thoughts and our actions.
I think even more than our thoughts and actions determining who we are.
So I think this is such an important topic, you know, we ended the last podcast saying
of all the questions of life, so many questions that begin with where or what or how, I think
the most important is the question that starts with who.
You know, who are we and who is God?
So maybe just following up on that just a little bit, Scott, we can talk other than
being sons and daughters of God, who else are we?
And not just who are we, but whose are we?
I know we talked about that about a year ago in our first season.
And that's always resonated with me is not just knowing who, but whose we are.
Yeah.
Knowing whose we are, I believe really makes a big, very significant difference in our
lives, right?
When members of Recovery start coming into rooms and they've been through their various
demoralizing and desperation type of battles and so forth, and finally make a decision.
And that's really the first three steps.
First step is we came to believe that we were powerless over our lives, you know, and specifically
alcohol or drugs or sexual addictions or whatever the addictions are that our lives have become
unmanageable because we're powerless over that stuff.
And then as we move into the second step, which is really, really speaks to what you're
talking about here, as we move into that second step is we came to believe that a power greater
than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
From our lens, we see that higher power that can restore us to sanity is Jesus Christ and
His power through His atonement.
But we need to know that.
And as we know Him and as we know that He can do that, then it moves us into that third
step.
And the third step is we make a decision to turn our will and our life over to Him, which
is repentance, right?
And so as we begin to do those things, move from step one to two to three where we actually
have the ability to make that decision, that can't be made.
That decision cannot be made without that knowing, David.
Yeah.
And those three steps are all supported by doctrine taught in the Book of Mormon, Scott.
You know, that man is nothing.
That's actually in Moses.
Man is nothing.
It's also in King Benjamin's address.
Man is nothing.
Remember your nothingness.
It's also taught by Aaron and Moroni and others throughout the Book of Mormon that man can
merit nothing of himself.
Right?
We're powerless.
Yeah.
Even if we could keep all the commandments, Scott, we would still go to hell because we
are fallen.
We're going to talk about the fall today, and we'll get into that.
But we are, when it comes to our progression and our eternal life, we are meritless.
And that is only through the merits and power and redemption of Jesus Christ that we are
saved and can return to our heavenly homes.
So and what was the third step, Scott?
We make a decision to turn our will and our life over.
Yeah.
So when we know that Christ has purchased us, that we're purchased by his blood taught
by, you know, Paul and others in the New Testament, that when we are, when we know that we are
purchased or ransomed, then we have a desire that gives us the motivation and the desire
to turn our will over to God.
So knowing who we are and whose we are, again, I believe gives us all the motivation we need
to do those things that we should do, need to do to return to our heavenly home.
Not just motivation, but I believe there's power in that knowing.
Definitely.
I believe there's a great deal of power in knowing who I am, just in and of itself.
But then I believe that power is compounded exponentially beyond our comprehension when
we really have a understanding of whose we are.
And if we really understand, and you said, you know, some of the most important questions
we have to ask is who are we and who is he?
Who is God?
And if we know that, if we know who God is, man, that, the empowerment that comes from
understanding that, and it's important that once we experience that empowerment, which
we will, and we can, and we do if we ask for it and work for it and qualify for it, study
for it, work to have the spirit in our lives, et cetera, but as we do that, then it's important
that we remember that experience.
Because so often times, and we see this, and I've seen it in my own life and we've seen
it in others' lives as well, of those we love and many, many others, that sometimes we don't
hang on to that memory, that remembrance, I should say.
We need a little spiritual deja vu, you know, and get a little glimpse of who we were in
the premoral existence, valiant, faithful, exceedingly faithful.
We talked all about that last week.
We need to get a, we just need to get a glimpse of that, Scott.
And when we say whose we are, it kind of denotes that we belong to someone.
And when we talk about belonging, we all want to belong.
We have a need to belong.
That is the essence, I think, of the human spirit, is we want to belong, and knowing
whose we are, instead of just saying that we are sons and daughters of God, knowing
that we belong to Him, that He feels that we belong to Him, it just becomes a little
more intimate.
And knowing that we are the spiritual, I didn't say spirit, we are the spirit sons and daughters
of God, but we are also the spiritual sons and daughters of Jesus Christ.
You know, that through making covenants, really through repentance and being redeemed and
becoming born again and becoming clean, you know, the best scripture on that, I'll just
turn to it real quick, is in Mosiah chapter 5, as King Benjamin has completed his amazing
address at the temple, and as he's giving them a name in chapter 1, he talks about,
I'm going to give you a new name, and they come to the temple, and he teaches them about
the atonement of Jesus Christ, the coming of Christ, that Jesus is going to bleed from
every poor, all of that.
And then he says in verse 7, And now because of the covenant which ye have made, ye shall
be called the children of Christ, his sons and his daughters.
For behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you.
For ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name.
Therefore, ye are born of him, and have become his sons and his daughters.
Well, so we are the sons and daughters of Jesus Christ.
You know, we can have a relationship with brothers and sisters, Scott, that's always
a sweet relationship, I know you have a sweet relationship with brothers and sisters, I
do too.
But it's a more intimate relationship to have a relationship with a child or parent relationship,
that's just more intimate.
And I know Jesus is our elder brother, but I know that, but I like to think of him more
as being my spiritual father, the father of my spiritual, born again covenant life.
When I think of him that way, and I think of how he purchased me, how I belong to him,
whose I am, meaning a son of Christ, not just a son of Heavenly Father, it strengthens my
relationship with Jesus Christ.
So whose we are is an important question to also answer.
And I think that another important, it's not really a question, but an important experience
to go through that helps us to understand whose we are, and who we are for that matter,
is to really know him, to really have that experience of coming to know him.
There's a song, I Walk Today Where Jesus Walked, Along the Shores of Galilee, and all of that.
And I love that song because it reminds me to ask myself the question, Scott, are you
walking where Jesus walks?
And I need to know him in order to know the answers to those questions, and we've talked
about this.
But we have, and I got this experience the other night as I was in a home of a family,
and they're struggling with who they are and whose they are.
And the struggle is in remembering those experiences, remembering I really do know him, and he really
does know me, and going back and having those memories of those experiences that can help
put our feet back on the ground in terms of all of that are so important.
It's just so important that we really work, for Scott, for me, it's just important that
I work daily to constantly come to know him even better.
Right?
Yeah, for sure, Scott.
And Satan is constantly whispering and lying to us.
And accusing us.
And accusing us about who we are, and he is the master when it comes to identity theft.
By the way, I read a while back ago, I think it was 22,000 people a day have their identity
stolen.
Really?
22,000 a day.
In the world?
In the United States?
In the world.
Oh my goodness, yeah.
Hundreds a minute, millions a year have their identities stolen.
Wait, you said 22,000 a day.
Right.
Oh my gosh.
A day.
That's crazy.
But I know where you're going with this.
Satan is more successful than that.
Millions.
Every day he's deceiving and accusing and lying about who we are.
And if we don't take control of answering that question for ourselves using the word
of the Lord, then he's going to answer it for us.
The world's going to answer it for us, really.
I mean, he convinces us who we are because of the world.
And you know, on that note, Scott, I just think it's so critical that we are just galvanized
in our hearts and minds on knowing that we are sons and daughters of God and not allowing
our tendencies to determine our identities, not allowing our culture to determine our
identities.
Our experiences even, especially those that we had no control of as little ones.
There's so much.
You know, my heart, Scott, really goes out to the LGBTQ community.
And you know, as a father of a son who identifies with the gay community and knowing something
about that and the struggles, my heart just really sincerely goes out to them.
And I love those people and I'm troubled about how the world misunderstands them, really.
But sometimes they make that identity greater or even give it more priority, their sexual
identity, than they do giving their spiritual identity the priority.
Right.
Yeah.
That's not true with just that community.
That's true with folks in addiction.
That's true with folks who need to, and I really tread lightly around this, but folks
who need to, and I say that very carefully, but folks who need to remain in their victimization.
There's so much of our identity that is really distorted, really clouded by our experiences
that we sometimes have in life.
Remaining, I want you to follow up on that.
Remaining in their victimization.
What does that mean?
Well, and like I said, Dave's-
You and I have briefly talked about this and I really love what you taught me about this.
And I know that it's true because I've seen it in my own life, the life of my family.
What does that mean, Scott?
Well, okay, so I can explain it best if first I qualify myself by saying I am about to describe
who I once was.
And I struggle still to stay out of this.
I think we all do, Scott.
I agree.
I just don't want to come across as somebody who-
At times in our life, we all see ourselves as victims and somehow we take, in some twisted,
distorted way, we take pride in that.
We sometimes wear it as a badge of honor.
And that's wrong.
It's a mistake to do that.
So I only say that because I don't want to come across as an expert in any way on anything
when it comes to this.
I just know my own experience and my experience has been expanded as I have through the last
25 almost years now been sponsoring men in recovery because this is a common theme, I
think, among humans.
We really find it to be pretty prevalent in the rooms of recovery or any place where people
are struggling with their mental and emotional and other things, identity.
And so what I mean by that is oftentimes, and we've talked about it, if you go back
in season one, we really spend a lot of time, and we'll do it again here in the next few
weeks, but we really spend a lot of time on the enabling powers and the compensating powers
along with the redeeming powers that come from the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Well, those enabling, which also can be, you can also use the word strengthening.
So enabling, strengthening, if I can be enabled, I can be strengthened through the atonement
of Jesus Christ.
And I can also be compensated.
And we've talked about that not only am I a victim, but I have victims, right?
And so they can be-
We sin and people sin against us.
And they can be compensated.
Oftentimes though, we'll have a situation where, honestly, David, for me, sometimes
it was just easier to be a victim.
It was just easier for me to be able to point my finger at a lot of different things.
You know, Joe Walsh, one of the Eagles, they have a song, you get over it.
And one of the stanzas in the song is you point your crooked little finger at everybody
else, never willing to take responsibility.
Three fingers pointing back at you.
Yeah, exactly, at least, right?
And so oftentimes, and I had this conversation again just recently with another person, but
oftentimes because of our experiences, we let those experiences identify us.
Rather than letting those experiences identify our relationship with him, with the Savior,
we let them identify us because it's easier.
It's easier for us to stay stuck than to make progress and move on.
It takes less work.
It takes way less work.
Not only does it take less work, but now we're justified in our ridiculous, and maybe not
ridiculous isn't the right word, but then we're justified in our behaviors that keep
us stuck, that keep me from growing, that keep me from being what he would want me to
be.
And that staying stuck really serves us sometimes.
You know, I wonder, and I hesitate to say this, but I've said it before, and I've heard
it said that, you know, really in Heavenly Father's world, there's probably really no
victims.
The price has been paid, the compensation's being made, or will be.
The enabling process is in process.
All we have to do is embrace it and qualify for it.
But yeah, I think that, I hope I did that justice, but I think that's what I mean.
I don't want to sound accusatory.
This is not an indictment on anybody, but maybe myself.
But I think it's important that we understand that.
Those are thoughts to think, Scott.
Those are thoughts to think.
And you and I have talked about that before in the past, off the air, so to speak.
It's really run true with me personally.
There's many times when I feel like I'm a victim, and we all do.
And we are, we are, okay?
We are.
But if that becomes our identity, then that's a problem.
If being straight becomes our identity, or being gay becomes our identity, that's a problem.
Yeah.
You know, that, because we are, I mean, that can be part of our identity.
No doubt, no doubt.
But if that becomes, if that takes precedence.
Yes.
If that takes precedence over whose we are.
And really even who we are to the core.
And who we are.
Right.
And who we really truly belong to.
Right.
You know, and we take deity out of it.
Wow.
It's kind of, it kind of goes to the C.S. Lewis discussion of putting first things first.
If you don't put first things first, and you put second things first, then you not only
lose the first things, but you're going to lose the second things.
And everything else behind that.
And everything behind that.
I mean, it's really a fascinating philosophical discussion that C.S. Lewis presents in one
of his books.
But anyway, you've got to put first things first.
And the first, primary, most important, sacred identity that we have to be focused on every
day throughout the day, constantly, is that we are sons and daughters, spirit, sons and
daughters of God, and spiritual, redeemed sons and daughters of Jesus Christ that He
has purchased us.
Right.
And then there's Adam and Eve, and there's Abraham and Sarah, and we'll talk more about
those.
We have some great examples of both sides of this, right?
I don't want to use any examples of people who want to stay stuck.
We all know who we are in that case, and we're all that person to a degree.
But we have some really good examples of those who have been through really difficult things,
who could hang on to the victimization of what they've gone through, but they have come
through the other side singing the song of redeeming love because they know they have
been redeemed, and they know that the enabling and compensatory powers of the atonement have
also been alive and well in their life.
And we've had that example just recently with Jorie and Mandy Norton, right?
Here's a couple, David, that have been through just all kinds of challenges that are beyond
me.
I mean, you can relate to a lot of the challenges that they had because they were just struggling
to bring children into their family.
Well, they finally get one eight months later while they're in the temple, dies when a babysitter's
with it.
And if anybody could be better, if anybody could be a victim.
And so I guess the question is what makes the difference?
And I think the answer is our relationship.
Our relationship, and we're going to, as you say, get into this later in this podcast weeks
from now, is really truly understanding.
Understanding, that means with our hearts, not just our minds.
Understanding the atonement of Jesus Christ and the plan of redemption and what He actually
did for us and the powers that are available to us.
So we'll get into that.
But maybe for the rest of today, I want to read this scripture from 3rd Nephi chapter
20.
We read this, and this is Christ speaking.
Behold, ye are the children of the prophets, children of the prophets, and ye are of the
house of Israel.
And ye are of the covenant which the Father made with your fathers, saying unto Abraham,
and in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
And then it goes on, verse 26, ye are the children of the covenant.
Well I think that's an essential part of our identity in knowing whose we are, that we
are sons and daughters of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, and Rebekah, Jacob, and whichever tribe
that we may be from.
You know, as a functioning patriarch, it's such an important part of a patriarchal blessing
that is underappreciated, I think, by most people in their patriarchal blessings that
by revelation, by revelation, we can know that we are sons and daughters of Israel.
And I believe in most cases, that's literal, there may be a few cases where it may be by
adoption, which doesn't matter, it's as though they were born into the covenant.
But I think that's really important if we understood the Abrahamic covenant, Scott,
and so many don't, they don't understand the promises and the responsibilities that
are associated with the Abrahamic covenant.
I know Elder Bednar many years ago said that if he was a missionary preparing to go on
a mission, that the most important missionary prep that he feels that anyone could make
would be to understand two things.
The Abrahamic covenant and the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And I've thought a lot about that over the years and have concluded that he's right.
I would just add that in connection with the atonement of Jesus Christ, they need to understand
the fall of Adam and Eve as well in order to appreciate the atonement of Jesus Christ,
so I would just say those three things.
But three events.
I think that knowing that we are Abrahams, that knowing who Father Abraham, that's what
he's called in the Scriptures, Father Abraham, there's even one place in the Scriptures,
Scott, where the reference is made the Gospel of Abraham.
You know, we always thank God for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but there's been a few times
in my prayers where I've thanked God for the Gospel of Abraham, which I believe is about
families.
The Gospel of Abraham to me, as I've concluded, is that families can be together forever.
That they're in a covenant.
And that no matter what happens, no matter how bad things may be, no matter how bad things
may go, that if parents keep their covenants, that they will have an eternal family.
Now, children can choose, all of that I understand, children cannot want that, can go away from
that, but they'll still be sealed if that's the desire of the parents and if the parents
are worthy.
I asked Brother Matthews once about some of the promises given by the prophets.
Joseph Smith, I won't take time to read all these, these are all probably well-known and
have been repeated in general conference talks about Orson F. Whitney quoting what Joseph
Smith said about being sealed and about wayward children and, you know, Brigham Young made
this Lorenzo Snow, that's I think one of my favorites is Lorenzo Snow where he says,
As sure as the sun comes over yonder mountains, parents will be sealed to their children for
time and eternity if parents keep their covenants.
I just had a sweet couple in my home a few nights ago, Scott.
Wow, it was tender, it was just really pulled at my heartstrings, it's kind of a yours-mine-and-ours,
they had both been previously married and divorced, then they have been married and
sealed and they have these children from previous partners, they've been sealed and some of
those children have been sealed to them and things are unraveling a bit in their family
and the mother was weeping about the fact that she's losing her children and we had
a discussion about the importance of the covenant, which I think is again the Gospel of Abraham,
the covenant of Abraham, families being sealed for time and all eternity, and gave her a
blessing and just told her, you're an eternal mother, you're going to be an eternal mother
to your children if that's the desire of your heart and you walk the covenant path.
So I just know that that's a really important part of what we're talking about is knowing
that we are the children of prophets and patriarchs and that we participate fully in the Gospel
or covenant of Abraham, that we can have seed forever and ever and ever.
I think it's about having the priesthood forever and ever and ever, we have a responsibility
to bless the world with the Gospel forever and ever and ever.
Anyway, there's so many great promises that have been given to us as a result of knowing
whose we are as sons and daughters of prophets and patriarchs.
You know, Deb and I are one of those families, we are a blended family and we have hers and
mine and ours, but the ours came by way of grandchildren, right?
And so we relate to that and I also relate to that, you know, I knew that covenant when
I was on my wayward path.
And even though, and I've said this before and you know, many of you are like, how could
you with a testimony be so wayward?
And well, I was and I did have a testimony the whole time, I knew.
But because I had that testimony, I kept praying, not praying really, but you know, of sorts
thinking, man, I hope my mom and dad are keeping their covenants.
That's sweet.
You know?
And they were.
And they were and they are and they have been faithful from the beginning that way.
And I know that that has not just provided me power in the eternities, but that it helped
me here too, Dave.
Not just my covenants, but their covenants have helped me too.
But then, you know, we struggle with that.
You know, we have, I have four children from a previous marriage and Deb has three children
from a previous marriage.
And we, we have battled, not really because we have an understanding, but there are times
when it gets a little struggle.
And some of our children have made choices to walk a different path.
And that's OK for them.
That's OK.
But I love it when I go to the temple and they're towards the very end.
I get reminded of that promise.
I sometimes just weep as that promise comes to me because not just the, not just the words,
not just falling in my ears, but the spirit falling on me and, and just absolutely bearing
witness in my soul that that's true.
And man, I love that promise.
It's so beautiful.
That story of Abraham and Sarah is just to me one of the greatest stories that's been
preserved in the Holy Scriptures about all they wanted, Scott, all they wanted was an
eternal family.
You know, Abraham cries out, you know, in Abraham, chapter one, the Pearl of Great Price,
that all he wants is happiness, the desires and the anyway.
And you can just hear that he just they want to have a family.
He wants to be a dad.
He wants to be a father.
She wants to be a mom and a mother.
And they don't have kids until she's like 90 years old.
I mean, think how long they waited.
And I love the description that Paul gives them in Hebrews where he says, you know, that
they they could see things afar off.
But there must have been some days where they wondered, are we ever going to have an eternal
family?
But that that promise was fulfilled in every word, in every wit of the promise.
And it will be for us.
And it's continuously being fulfilled continually.
Yeah, continually.
So anyway, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, another great love story.
And Jacob and all of the tribes of Israel.
And another day we'll talk about the importance of the tribes.
And I think I've shared a story about that before.
But let's talk.
Let's talk now about what it means to be that we belong to Adam and Eve and knowing that
who we are and whose we are as fallen sons and daughters of Adam and Eve and that we
have experienced the this the fallen nature that they brought into the world.
And I think these two individuals are Adam, we know to be Michael, the great archangel
who helped Jesus Christ create the world, who was chosen to come down and Eve, who would
have been foredained one of the greatest women ever, pre mortally, mortally, right there
with Mary, the mother of Jesus and other great women like that, Soraya, Sarah and so many
others, so many living today like them.
But these two individuals come down, having learned the plan of redemption in the pre
mortal existence, and they come down and there is a veil of forgetfulness.
They've been told that they need to multiply and replenish the earth.
That's the commandment they've been given.
And then they've also been commanded that if you partake of that fruit, nevertheless
it says in the scriptures, nevertheless you may choose for yourself.
But God has to give it as a commandment because if he doesn't there won't be consequences.
So it has to be a commandment that if you partake of that fruit, the fruit, the knowledge
of the tree of good and evil, you will die.
You will die.
So you can choose for yourself, but I'm telling you not to partake of it or you will die.
So this gives Adam and Eve agency.
All commandments do give us agency.
We can make a choice.
God honors that.
And yet they have this first commandment given to them to multiply and replenish the earth.
And Eve understands that in their innocent state, and we don't know if it's that they
couldn't or that they wouldn't have children, you know, the difference, and we don't know
which it was, but that she finally decided that after being beguiled, deceived by Satan,
maybe because the timing wasn't right or because of other factors that were beguiled as used
in the scriptures and in the Holy Temple, that Satan tells her the great lie.
He tells her about six truths and then hits her with the great lie.
You shall not surely die, but shall become as the gods, knowing good and evil.
Well, so there's a lie mixed with the truth.
In the same sentence.
And that's the way he usually deceives us.
So she partakes and then she gets Adam to partake and we know that story.
But I love, just really love, and so grateful they've included this in the endowment the
last few years of Eve and what she says.
This is, keep in mind, this is after they have fallen.
And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying, were it not for our
transgression, we, number one, never should have had seed.
And number two, never should have known good and evil.
And number three, and never should have known the joy of our redemption.
And four, the eternal life which God giveth unto the obedient.
And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God and they made all these things known unto their
sons and their daughters.
What's the reference on that?
That's Moses 5, 11 and 12.
Even Moses in verse 10, or I'm sorry, Adam, Adam in verse 10, blesses God and was filled
and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying, blessed be the name
of God, for because of my transgression, Adam, thanking God for the fall, because of my transgression
my eyes are opened and in this life I shall have joy and again in the flesh I shall see
God.
Well, it just really strikes me, Scott, that we should all be so grateful and rejoicing
that we are fallen sons and daughters of Adam and Eve and that because of their transgression
we have come to a mortal earth with flesh and blood and that we are corruptible and
that we are powerless, back to your three steps, and that we are completely dependent
upon a savior and a redeemer and understanding the fall ultimately and knowing who we are
as fallen beings, as sinners or sinners who keep on trying the definition of a saint,
that we are all lost sheep, as Isaiah, all we like sheep have gone astray, it's Isaiah
quoted by Amulek, and that we are all prodigals and knowing that we are all of that, we're
lost sheep, we're lost coins, we are prodigals, the three parables in Luke 15, that then we
can come to know of our complete, total, absolute dependence upon Jesus Christ and His atonement.
So if it hadn't have been for that transgression then we wouldn't, are you saying, be able
to have that experience of being so close to Him?
We would not appreciate our dependence upon Him.
We would not have the opportunity to have a savior and a redeemer, which was absolutely
necessary for us to progress and become like God by overcoming the world and overcoming
the flesh through a savior and redeemer, through the blood, through the blood of Christ.
So knowing who we are and whose we are includes knowing that we're sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve, that we're all carnal, that we're all sensual, that we're all devilish.
And to, I don't know, I talked about this a year ago, but when's the last time you thanked
God for the fall?
When's the last time we heard that in a prayer in church, that we're thankful for the fall?
Adam and Eve felt thankful for it.
I think we should feel thankful for it.
I've tried to thank Him for it.
I tried to thank Him for it this morning.
And I'm thankful that I'm immortal.
I'm thankful that I've fallen.
And I'm sorry that I've sinned, but so, so, so grateful for a savior and redeemer who can
heal and lift and forgive.
So knowing that we're fallen and that we'll always be fallen, Scott, we talk about, you
know, we keep seeking, we keep seeking, I think, in the church.
We have this problem of perfectionism, and I think we have a problem that's called meritocracy,
where we seek to have merits, to rise above, to get into the leadership positions and rise
above and be more righteous.
And I don't know, it can be kind of a ferris ache, really, like the Jews, where we think
that positions somehow make us more righteous.
I mean, really, even in our righteousness, Scott, we still have no merits.
Our righteousness or keeping the commandments or being obedient doesn't earn us more merits.
No, but it does begin to qualify us for His merits.
Yes, absolutely.
And that's-
Having church position or leadership doesn't give us more merits.
No, no.
But you're right.
Yeah, and that's important for us to understand.
It's important for us to do our best, but for the right reason too, right?
Because I think that's where sometimes it can get a little cloudy.
I think so often times, we think, oh, what a great guy.
Yeah, he's been a bishop.
Oh, what a great guy.
Yeah, he was such a great missionary.
Oh, what a great sister she is.
Oh my gosh, she was the most wonderful, stake young women's president.
And we begin to pin these little honorary badges.
But where in reality, much of who we are and much of that stuff that gets us close to Him,
it can be seen by others, but it can't really be seen sometimes by others.
In other words, people can see it because of the way we live our lives, because of the
way we react or don't react in certain situations.
But it really has nothing to do with our, should we call it, religiosity resume, for
example.
Yeah.
It's important too, Scott, that we understand the universal nature of this fall.
I mean, I used to ask my students, are babies falling?
And honestly, 90% of the class would say no.
Only about 10% of my students would say babies are falling.
Now babies are falling.
They come into a fallen world.
They feel they are absolutely fallen sons and daughters of God.
However, the atonement of Jesus Christ covers them unconditionally.
And when we talk about the atonement of Jesus Christ, we'll get into the conditional and
the unconditional effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
But look at Mosiah chapter 3, verse 16.
It says, this is King Benjamin again, his amazing address, and talking about the atonement,
the need we have for the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Verse 16, and even if it were possible that little children could sin, they could not
be saved.
So he's saying, okay, we don't believe little children can sin because we learn in Doctrine
and Covenants, actually, section 29, that Satan doesn't have power to tempt them.
Well the reason Satan doesn't have power to tempt them is because the atonement of Jesus
Christ has covered them.
This is one of the laws, or one of the boundaries, that is put on Satan that he cannot tempt
little children before they're accountable.
Okay?
And then it goes on, so let me start over.
Even if it were possible that little children could sin, they could not be saved.
But I say unto you, they are blessed.
For behold, as in Adam, or by nature they fall, we're speaking children here, as in
Adam, or by nature they fall, even so the blood of Christ atoneth for their sins.
For their sins, it talks about, I don't know, it's a difference really, it's all semantics
to me, difference between sins and transgressions, but here he says that Christ covers little
children's sins.
Well maybe they have the light of Christ too, then maybe they're not tempted, but maybe
they do sin because they go against the light of Christ, or whatever.
I don't know, that's a philosophical discussion for another time.
But little children are fallen, and Christ's atonement unconditionally covers them.
Prophets are fallen.
We're all natural men.
We're all at times enemies to God.
That's also in King Benjamin's address, verse 19 says, for the natural man is an enemy to
God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever, unless he yields
to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and puts off the natural man and becomeeth a saint
through the atonement of Christ the Lord and becomeeth as a child, submissive, meek, humble,
patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict
upon him even as a child does submit to his Father.
Well the truth is, none of us are perfect in yielding to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.
And as a result, we all sin every day.
We're all sinners.
I was listening to a golf thing the other day, Scott, and the commentator was describing
this great golfer who's really made a lot of progress and they were talking about the
progress that he's made and they said, you know, he no longer is chasing perfection.
And that just kind of struck me.
And now I know what they meant.
This golfer had become so obsessed with his swing that instead of just going with the
flow and playing by feel and, you know, working hard at improving his game, but he was no
longer chasing perfection or so hung up or obsessed with every little single detail of
his swing that it freed him up.
It had just totally freed up his swing.
And it had become more intuitive and more smooth, more powerful.
I think our lives are a little bit like that.
What a great analogy.
I agree.
We don't need to stress out about our imperfections.
We should celebrate that we're human.
And we should remember to have fun while we're doing it.
That's one of those things that sometimes professional athletes, I've heard it complained
about a lot, professional.
I heard a skier from the US ski team talking about that.
It just wasn't fun anymore.
And until I learned to have fun again and just ski, then I began to love it.
But our lives are like that too, right?
I think I have a great example of that.
My own family with my sweetheart, how life had become so miserable for her because she
just was trying so hard to chase perfection and could never come close to reaching it.
And I came home one day from work and the children are running around and things are
all chaotic, which was a little unusual and no sight of their mother.
And I said, hey guys, where's mom?
And I think it was Taylor who said, oh, she's upstairs crying.
He was kind of proud to tell me that.
Oh, she's upstairs crying.
I said, okay.
I walk carefully walk upstairs and quietly open the door to our bedroom and she's face
down in a pillow weeping.
And I, sweetheart, sweetheart, what's wrong?
And I remember her sad, defeated face turning around and looking at me and saying, David,
I will never be good enough.
I sat there and thought about what she was saying for a minute and I wasn't trying to
be cavalier or casual about it.
And I just, I just put out my arms and I said, well, sweetheart, welcome to the club.
Welcome to the club.
None of us will ever be good enough in this life.
That's why we needed a savior.
We, we should sometimes have her share hers, her side of this story.
She, she told me later that it was like when she heard that welcome to the club.
I don't think that that part impressed her too much.
Yeah.
But when she heard we will never be good enough in this life.
Right.
And that's why we needed a savior.
It can, it completely flipped her.
I mean, she said it was like a thousand lights came on Scott.
And all of a sudden she said, Oh, Oh, and the thought came into her mind.
You never will be good enough, but because I was good enough, you are good enough.
And it totally changed her perspective on life.
It totally Scott freed her up and she began to find more joy in life.
Not, not, not in, not in her imperfection, not in her sins, but that she knew that that
was all just part of life that that God's not surprised that we sin.
It was part of the plan that we would transgress that we would be fallen, that we would sin
and be sinners.
That was all part of life than the plan.
So get over it.
But, but you know what Chris was feeling, that's pretty prominent.
And I don't know if it's anecdotally, I will say it may be more even prominent in our culture
within the church because of our standards and sometimes because of our misunderstanding
of where our emphasis emphasis should be laid.
Right.
And so often we, I know we've been taught it and it's important and you know, but we
have focused so much on doing, doing, doing, doing, and not so much on being, you know,
I loved it when president Hinckley many years ago came out with the book.
I don't know if he called it the B attitudes, but it was talking about who to be, how we
should be, you know, and really I can't do enough.
But I can be enough.
We had a great, we had a great example of this in our stake.
We had word conference just a couple of weeks ago and it was such a wonderful state president.
We have a fairly new state presidency and president abuse in our state presidency stood
up and you know what his overriding message was to the entire ward.
You're good enough.
You are good enough.
We beat ourselves up so bad because I think that we mistakenly have these bellwethers
that we measure ourselves against that they're not accurate.
Right.
We, none of us will ever do enough or do good enough, but we can be the right person as
we begin to qualify for the atonement and the power of it in our lives.
Yes.
Through the spirit of the Holy Ghost.
Yes.
Yeah, it's really sad Scott, how some people in the church have become so obsessed with
meritocracy and perfectionism that they have really lost sight of who and whose they are.
I mean they become like Pharisees and Sadducees who believe that there are 613 commandments
that they have to keep and if they break any one of them, they have to be flogged and so
they flog or shame themselves, beat themselves up and thus goes their miserable life day
after day after day.
Well I love the title of the book, you know, by President Nelson, Perfection is Pending.
We have to stop chasing perfection in this life.
It's not possible.
Brigham Young came out and said, we will never be free from the fall in this life.
We will never be free from sin in this life.
Sin taints our life every day.
If we're not sinning, people are sinning around us and it affects us every day.
And I just, that's mortality and we should rejoice in a Savior and Redeemer who covers
us who God has provided for us as Adam and Eve, you know, as they rejoiced because they
knew that the redemption was only possible because of God providing a Savior.
So I think that Scott, we should celebrate our humanness.
We should celebrate our fall, even our fall in nature.
We should continually daily be repenting through the atonement of Jesus Christ of our sins.
We should have great godly sorrow and remorse when we sin and there's every kind of degree
of sin possible from our thoughts in our hearts to actions and terrible things that are done
in this world.
But if we'll just understand again that we are sons and daughters of Adam and Eve and
that through the flesh that we are carnal, that we are sensual and that we are devilish.
Anyway, knowing and celebrating our fall in nature, Scott, is critical to our identity
because I think people who don't understand and think every day and appreciate their fall
in nature, that they make this critical mistake that they believe that even their tendencies
and their temptations are who they are.
They mistranslate, make this mistake of believing that if they have inappropriate thoughts,
if they feel inappropriate emotions, if they look at somebody and have bad thoughts or
they mean thoughts or whatever, if they don't understand that's the result of living in
a fallen world and being a fallen natural man or woman, all of a sudden Satan will come
in and accuse them and say, see, you're not celestial material.
You're not good enough and you never will be good enough and that's who you are.
You're just a mean, out of control, dirty, filthy human being.
And that's just all a lie.
We all have bad thoughts.
We all feel inappropriate emotions.
We all feel fear and we all experience anger and we experience lust and we experience pride
and we experience all these inappropriate things as a result of the carnal state that
we live in.
And I think there's a difference between state and traits.
I believe, like Elder Holland taught, it is critical that we understand the difference
between the natural man and our fallen natures and state that we live in and knowing that
we are inherently, inherently sons and daughters of God with traits and talents and gifts that
we came down to this earth with, bringing them from the presence of God with us.
I mean, we have to understand that we are this kind of dual being because we live in
now a fallen world.
We have all of these things, okay?
When we feel temptation, we have bad thoughts and inappropriate emotions, we should understand,
okay, that's the result of the fall.
But we should also understand that we are inherently sons and daughters of God and that
we have power over those things, especially because we are the children of Jesus Christ
who died for us, purchased us, and gives us the strength and enabling powers and compensatory
powers to overcome all of that.
So it's really critical we understand and appreciate the fall so we don't mistake our
identity for who we are.
I think this is one of the biggest problems I had as a teacher, as an MTC branch president,
as a bishop, as a priesthood leader, in stake presidency, Scott, was just people who can't
get over their mistakes or their sins.
And then they think once they've repented of them, the temptation, or in some cases
addictions and the pull, the pull of the flesh, addictions and temptations and tendencies
come back to them again and they think to themselves, because Satan is whispering to
them, they buy into it and they think, see, that's just who I am.
That's just who I am.
I'm no better than that.
I deserve nothing better than that.
We believe the accusation of the accuser.
And they give up because they don't know their identity.
So I hope that we can all do better.
What's an invitation we can give our listeners, Scott, that we can all do better.
Every day we should thank God for the fallen state and nature of man, that this is all
part of God's plan and that He has provided us a Savior and Redeemer and that through
Him and knowing that we belong to Him, that we can experience all of the sins and frustrations
and failures and mistakes and all the stuff that goes on in this life, Scott, that we
can experience it and grow from it because of the atonement of Jesus Christ instead of
giving up, thinking that's just who I am and it's never going to get better than that.
Well, for those of our listeners who are feeling a little extra ambitious perhaps this week,
I might just provide an invitation because I've done this.
I have men that I sponsor do this and my sponsor had me do this again fairly recently.
I have a sponsor too and he had me do this again fairly recently.
So I would just take an 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper and I would just draw a line right down
the middle of it, a vertical line right from top to bottom right down the middle of it.
And then on one side I would write down all of the things that I identify myself as.
I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm a priesthood holder, I would identify with my work there,
I would identify with my relationships there.
But then those all come a little bit, well maybe not for everybody, a little bit easier
but then when we get into the other things, the lies that we tell about ourselves, some
of those could be for me.
I'm an alcoholic, recovering alcoholic who still struggles with whatever.
Or I am a, someone might say, not me but someone might say, I am a victim of abuse, I am a
victim of neglect, I am a victim of being taken, my family's been taken away from me
through various different reasons.
And so I could list all these things of who I am but then I would set that down and then
I would have time with my Heavenly Father whether that means I go to the temple or I
just have a prayer or I get on my horse and go on the mountain and commune there or whatever
or go skiing, whatever the case may be and it would be different for all of us.
Then I would come back and revisit that list and I would cross all of the lies off.
And the lies would be those things that the accuser is wanting me to believe about myself.
I'm not that person.
Who am I?
I'm a child of Heavenly Parents who love me and who show that love to me daily through
the tender mercies that I get to witness if I focus on seeing those tender mercies.
If I focus on the victimhood or the victimization then I can be a victim but if I focus on the
tender mercies, if I focus on all of the blessings which are so abundantly in all of our lives
and that's another exercise that we often go through is to create that gratitude list.
But if our listeners and if we will accept that invitation and do that prayerfully that
can be a powerful, powerful experience because if we do it prayerfully and some have even
fasted in approaching this because it's that important.
This is not just an exercise that could be that I'm just throwing out there flippantly.
This is a really important experience for us to go through whether we go through it
the way I just suggested it or whether we go through it in another means which we can,
it's possible.
It's so important that we do know who we are.
If we don't really have that grasp and understanding of who we are and whose we are which would
also mean that we need to know Him so we know ourselves, we know Him, that relationship's
intact then everything else David as we begin to, then everything else while we're moving
through the podcast, while we're moving through a continual study of Christ's atonement and
the power that can come into our lives but while we're doing that then we're setting
ourselves up, we're qualifying ourselves I should say to have a sweeter experience with
Him.
So, back to how I kind of started, if we think that what we think and what we do determines
who we are instead of knowing who we are and allowing that to determine what we think and
what we do, it makes, it just makes a huge difference.
It's so important that we have a grasp on this understanding.
Yeah, and I hope that I can do better helping my children and my grandchildren understand
the difference.
I hope that we'll all rejoice in the fall and that instead of seeing ourselves as victims
of a fallen world or living in a wicked world which is all true, that we'll see it as part
of God's plan, that we'll rejoice in it as Adam and Eve did and as we should and especially
rely more upon and be more grateful for the atonement of Jesus Christ and redemption and
salvation and the great plan of happiness that He made available to us.
And it's our promise and it's been the promise of men and others way more important and with
more authority than us but it's our promise that as we do so, His Spirit will be in our
lives and as we take His Spirit upon us, as we qualify for that and as we participate
in that remembrance each week as we partake of the sacrament, our lives just become sweeter,
we become closer to Him.
As we become closer to Him, all things change.
Thanks for being with us.
We're so grateful for your listening.
We also appreciate your feedback and your responses.
You can always send those at heredeemsus.gmail.com.