1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,480 Hello there everybody and welcome out to another podcast of redeemed through his blood. 2 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,240 My name is Scott Durfey joined again as always by David Durfey, my uncle here. 3 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:27,240 Say hi Dave. 4 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:32,520 Hi Dave, good to be here Scott with you and talk about some important things today. 5 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,920 Yeah, I'm excited about it too. 6 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:40,120 Beautiful day here on the Wasatch front, just a tad bit cold, but you know that's how it 7 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,000 goes in January. 8 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,840 I just got back David from a weekend in Atlanta. 9 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,800 I know you're headed to Orlando in a few days, but you know the cool thing is when I was 10 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:57,400 in Atlanta I was on a business trip and was able to actually have a conversation with 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:07,520 a couple of non-member folks about the podcast and about the atonement and what a sweet experience. 12 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:13,640 I think all of Heavenly Father's children just have a natural propensity to hopefully 13 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,800 search and belong and feel his presence. 14 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:23,800 Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many, well the kind of people or who if we could 15 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:30,920 see Scott, those who are listening to the podcast, I think you track all this that we 16 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,120 have people in how many countries. 17 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,760 Yeah, 40 to 45 countries, it's kind of hard to count at this point. 18 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Who have listened or who are listening. 19 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:50,000 And it would be so fun to get a glimpse of those individuals and who they are and maybe 20 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,800 we should have a conference sometime. 21 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:53,800 Have a reunion. 22 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,800 I guess it can't really. 23 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:02,080 We won't do that, but it would just be fun to meet people that are listening to it like 24 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,080 that. 25 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,080 Yeah, yeah, I agree. 26 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,080 It would be fun. 27 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,160 It would be fun to just kind of get together somewhere, do a little workshop. 28 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,160 Yeah. 29 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,080 We've had a couple of really great episodes over the last couple of releases, over the 30 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,000 last couple of weeks in talking about our identity. 31 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,760 We've talked about how our identity determines our eternity. 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:26,160 We talk about how important it is that we really see ourselves for who we are. 33 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:32,820 We understand based on a quote from Joseph Smith that was given in the King Follett discourse, 34 00:02:32,820 --> 00:02:37,400 we made reference to that at least I think either the last episode or maybe the episode 35 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,760 even prior to that, where we just know we can't really understand the character of ourselves 36 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,600 if we don't understand the character of God or have a true understanding of ourselves 37 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:52,400 if we don't understand Him and all of His attributes and characteristics. 38 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,000 And I think that we've talked quite a little bit about that. 39 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,160 We still have some to go. 40 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:03,840 Great story last week by the way of that young lady who received her patriarchal blessing 41 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:09,440 and was revealed to her that she was actually one of Heavenly Father's favorites. 42 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:10,600 I love that story. 43 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:17,360 That was life changing for her and just as much of a life changing experience for me 44 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,080 Scott to be able to get a glimpse. 45 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:28,780 There is no doubt in my mind that we existed before this world was ever created, not just 46 00:03:28,780 --> 00:03:32,800 before we were born, but we existed before the world was created. 47 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:38,360 And we knew about the creation and we knew who was involved in that creation, that it 48 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:44,480 was Jesus Christ and it would be Michael who were delegated the power of creation by the 49 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:53,000 Father and we mingled and we were taught our first lessons in the pre-mortal existence 50 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:59,200 concerning the plan of redemption and we all loved the plan of redemption and we knew what 51 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:05,160 would be required and what was being asked and we were all willing to participate in 52 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:13,480 that until Satan who was in some authority, certainly I don't think he was as high up 53 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:19,360 as some people give him credit, but he broke out among the ranks in the rebellion and we 54 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:26,320 talked about that and the accuser of our brethren started to accuse us that we would never be 55 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:34,680 good enough, that it was too much risk, that Jesus might not have the strength or the power 56 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:42,520 or the will to do what he knew he needed to do in the pre-mortal existence which was to 57 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:48,520 come to the earth and to live a sinless life. 58 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,240 I don't think he was perfect until after he was resurrected and that's just semantics 59 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,640 between what perfect means and what sinless means, but he lived a sinless life. 60 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,160 I don't think Satan believed he could pull that off because of the character that Satan 61 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:10,880 was and that he would not go through with the suffering and the bleeding of every poor 62 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:20,200 and that he would, Satan believed Jesus would shrink because of his lack of faith in Jesus 63 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:30,400 Christ our elder brother and because of his desire to be the one who would save us and 64 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:38,560 because the father had chosen Jesus over him and because Satan I think had a propensity 65 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:52,400 to, because of his pride to be in charge or to be the one who would save us. 66 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:58,760 Then he comes up with this fake, I don't know how much he really believed in himself, but 67 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:07,920 he comes up with this fake idea, this apostate philosophy that, let's just go down there 68 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:18,440 and no risk, no risk, let's do your thing and whatever you want to do is fine, we won't 69 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:26,680 have covenants or commandments or ordinances and there won't be order, just do your thing 70 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:34,080 and enjoy life and I'll save you and I'll get the credit, I'll get the glory. 71 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:41,360 And for many of our brothers and sisters in the pre-mortal existence who believed that 72 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:49,120 their risk was maybe greater than they were willing to take, bought into that Scott. 73 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:55,920 And I think it's just really important that we try to better understand what was at stake 74 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,300 in the pre-mortal existence. 75 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:07,200 We understand our existence and what we knew and who we were and what we defended in the 76 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:14,560 pre-mortal existence and through every means possible, the scriptures, the teachings of 77 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:21,720 living, latter-day prophets and ancient prophets in the scriptures, that we really seek to 78 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,440 understand our pre-mortal existence because I believe Scott that if one can get a glimpse 79 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:32,320 of their pre-mortal existence and we'll share a story about that today, if you can get a 80 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:39,720 glimpse of your pre-moral existence, it changes your whole life here in mortality. 81 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,880 Yeah, it does. 82 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:47,920 I think of all the thousands and hundreds of thousands of people and actually millions 83 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:54,040 of people that have walked and are yet to walk the face of the earth and I think that 84 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,120 for some of us and I'm going to share a little something here in just a second that kind 85 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:07,160 of cooperates what I'm about to submit here, but I think that a lot of us, even though 86 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:15,160 we may not know, kind of feel a draw, a pull to something bigger, something more. 87 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:22,920 There's a poet, a pretty famous poet actually, William Wordsworth, who penned the lines and 88 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,760 I'm just going to read the first part of this poem. 89 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,160 There's two, I don't know what they're called, but there's two sections to it. 90 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,840 And this is what he says, he says, our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting. 91 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:39,480 The soul that rises with us, our life star, hath had elsewhere a setting and cometh from 92 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:40,840 afar. 93 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:46,180 Not in entire forgetfulness and not in utter nakedness, but trailing clouds of glory do 94 00:08:46,180 --> 00:08:49,760 we come from God, who is our home. 95 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:58,000 I think that there's just a natural pull for some of us, David, to that belonging to Heavenly 96 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:05,560 Father from before we took breath in this life and as we begin to understand, as we 97 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:10,800 talk about the things that took place there, like we've done over the last couple of weeks, 98 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:16,960 the last couple of episodes and we'll continue to do so today, that as we see how the atonement 99 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:23,800 of Jesus Christ had its effect there and how the blood of Christ even began to redeem us 100 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,320 and enable us and to give us the strength and even to compensate for some of the buffeting 101 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,920 that we felt in what we call the war in heaven. 102 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,680 I don't know that it was hand to hand combat, we haven't talked about it, I mean, we've 103 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,360 mentioned that, but we call it the war in heaven. 104 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:46,080 But I believe that we filled that pole back to Him because that's our home. 105 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,560 Our home is where we began. 106 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:58,080 Well English poets like William Wordsworth and others, I think even most people, Scott, 107 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:06,640 feel in there the depths of their soul that they existed before this life. 108 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,840 I mean, that's been my experience throughout my life, I became acutely aware of that on 109 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,640 my mission, that you teach that principle, right, as a missionary. 110 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:16,640 That's right. 111 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,960 And people just accepted that, like they already believed it, and yet we're the only Christian 112 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,760 religion that teaches it. 113 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:32,400 There's no other religion that I'm aware of, Christian religion or church, that believes 114 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,320 that we existed in the premoral existence. 115 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:45,920 I mean, since Augustine and others in the early history of the Catholicism, it was ex 116 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,840 nihilo, that we were created out of nothing. 117 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:57,800 Well, I don't think anybody really, in the depths of their soul, believes that. 118 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:04,520 There must be, but the normal average person, and I think it's because of the light of Christ 119 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:14,120 and because of the seeds of the Spirit that whisper to us that there's more to this life 120 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:21,400 than just this life, that we existed before and that we will surely exist after. 121 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:27,880 And yet there's no other Christian church or religion that teaches about a premoral 122 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:28,880 existence. 123 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,360 And the Scriptures make it pretty clear, not just English poets, but even more important, 124 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,640 the authority of the Holy Scriptures, you know, whether it's Jeremiah, before I formed 125 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:45,040 thee in the belly I knew thee, whether it's Jesus himself, who's talking about the man 126 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:50,960 that he heals who is blind, and the apostles ask, well, who sinned before this life, this 127 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,120 man or his parents? 128 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:59,240 Jesus says nobody did that before, you know, this is not something that is the result of 129 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,400 his prior existence. 130 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:09,960 I mean, there's so many examples in the Scriptures about the foreknowledge of God and before 131 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,440 the foundation of the world. 132 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,560 There's so many examples in the Scriptures that I don't know really how people and other 133 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,200 religions have missed that truth. 134 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:27,200 The one that you just shared about the guy, well, the person that was born blind. 135 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,320 John chapter 9. 136 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,680 Who did sin first, his parents or before he was born. 137 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:32,680 Yeah. 138 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,320 It just speaks to them because they didn't explain it. 139 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,320 Right. 140 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:38,320 Right? 141 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,200 There was no teaching to that. 142 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,040 There was just an assumption, hey, everybody just knows this. 143 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,040 Yeah, yeah. 144 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,040 They knew that was true. 145 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,040 Yeah. 146 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,040 Yeah, there was no- 147 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,600 There was a prior existence before this life and they were asking a simple question because 148 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,360 that's what they already believed. 149 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:02,160 I mean, there's just so much evidence of that, but through the apostasy and the lost truths 150 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,840 and understandings and loss of authority and priesthood- 151 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,400 Well, and the intent to confuse us from the adversary and- 152 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:20,640 Oh, it's such an important doctrine for him to distort because if he can distort that 153 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:26,280 you followed Jesus in the pre-mortal existence, you're not nearly as apt to follow him here. 154 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,560 I've learned that throughout my life. 155 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:29,560 I have felt that. 156 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:36,920 I think all of us feel as though we were born for a purpose, that we were born to complete 157 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,920 a certain mission, that we were foreordained, important word in the scriptures and the teachings 158 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:49,200 of the prophets, that we've been all foreordained to accomplish certain things in this life. 159 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,600 And I hope that all of our listeners feel that and will identify that. 160 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,200 I don't think it has to be in your patriarchal blessing. 161 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:02,880 I think many patriarchal blessings include some sort of reference to a prior life or 162 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,160 pre-mortal existence, but mine didn't. 163 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:07,880 My blessing didn't. 164 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,080 And I know many other blessings don't. 165 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,920 Many of the prophets who had blessings, patriarchal blessings, you know, President Faust used 166 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:22,000 to talk about his patriarchal blessing and how it was two short paragraphs on a half 167 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,400 sheet of paper, I think. 168 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,680 And yet he said, it told me everything I needed to know. 169 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,680 But there are so many patriarchal blessings that don't necessarily describe pre-mortal 170 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,880 existence. 171 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,360 So if yours happens to not, you shouldn't be discouraged by that. 172 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:46,160 But you can get a vision of yourself in the pre-mortal existence as you ponder and as 173 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:52,400 you meditate and as you pray, because I think Heavenly Father would love us to get a glimpse 174 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:57,340 of who we really are, because it would strengthen us so much in this life. 175 00:14:57,340 --> 00:15:02,320 And especially what He would love us to know, which He has taught in Revelation. 176 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:08,740 We read that scripture about how we overcame Satan, the great dragon in the war in heaven. 177 00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:16,680 This is Revelation 12, 9 through 11, that we overcame Satan in the pre-mortal existence 178 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:24,340 through the blood of the Lamb, that it was because of our testimony of Jesus and our 179 00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:27,000 willingness to even die for Him there. 180 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,360 That's all in Revelation 12 verse 11, that we overcame Satan there, and that's the way 181 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,020 we'll overcome him here. 182 00:15:35,020 --> 00:15:42,240 And I learned this, I think, acutely from an experience I had with my son before I launched 183 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,680 into that story, Scott. 184 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,500 What are your thoughts about that? 185 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,520 It's important that we understand it, and that's probably all I want to say, that the 186 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:58,280 importance behind this grasping an understanding of what we're talking about here is so important, 187 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:03,180 because this is really foundationally, if we can start our foundation in our approach 188 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:08,400 to putting on the atonement of Jesus Christ, which is what this whole podcast is about, 189 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:14,800 and how we find relief from our mortal existence and our mortality through the power of the 190 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,840 atonement of Jesus Christ. 191 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:23,080 Foundationally, we do need to understand how it's affected ahead on us pre-mortally. 192 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,480 And so, I think that's enough, but I am really anxious to talk about this story that you 193 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:29,480 have. 194 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,160 And it really kind of illustrates in a great way what we're talking about. 195 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,160 Yeah. 196 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Well, thank you. 197 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,760 And before we maybe launch into that, let me get your thoughts on this scripture in 198 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,220 Alma chapter 13, Scott. 199 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:48,560 You know, this talks about the fact, the truth, that we were all prepared from before the 200 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:54,640 foundation of the world—I think this is an important part of the story—that we were 201 00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:01,960 all prepared from before the foundation of the world to do here what we were willing 202 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:10,240 to do there to defend the plan of redemption and the mission of Jesus Christ as our Savior 203 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,240 and Redeemer. 204 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:20,680 And this is Alma in Alma chapter 13, verses 2 and 3. 205 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:27,560 And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son in a manner that thereby 206 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:35,840 the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption. 207 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:41,560 And then this great verse 3 and maybe a little bit of verse 4. 208 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,280 And this is the manner after which they were ordained. 209 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:51,280 And we could say—we're not just talking maybe priesthood here—but we could say foreordained, 210 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,600 which would include men or women. 211 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:02,120 This is the manner after which they were foreordained, being called and prepared from before the 212 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:11,400 foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, who knows all things, on account of 213 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,600 their exceeding faith in good works in the first place. 214 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:23,120 And we could say, Scott, there, or in other words, in the first estate or our pre-moral 215 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,120 existence. 216 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,240 It's called the first estate in Abraham chapter 3. 217 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:34,560 So Alma's teaching that we were all foreordained and prepared from before the foundation of 218 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,640 the world based upon the foreknowledge of God. 219 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,520 He knew us so well. 220 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:40,680 He knew us there. 221 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,480 He knew how things would go here. 222 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,720 He sees the past. 223 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,880 He sees the present and the future all at once. 224 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,640 There is no past or really future to God. 225 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,560 He lives in an eternal now. 226 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:02,920 And because of his knowledge and because of our exceeding faith—exceeding faith, Scott—and 227 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:11,040 works in our first estate or in the first place, being left to choose good or evil—so 228 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,160 we could choose good or evil there, Scott. 229 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,600 There was good or evil in our pre-moral existence. 230 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,680 There was a war. 231 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,200 There would have been sin. 232 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,160 At least one-third committed the unpardonable, unforgivable sin. 233 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:30,920 Therefore, they having chosen good—this is in the pre-moral existence—and exercising 234 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:37,000 exceedingly great faith in the pre-moral existence, they are called with a holy calling. 235 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:45,200 Yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with and according to a preparatory redemption 236 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,200 for such. 237 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,480 Scott, I believe we've all been called. 238 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:55,440 Men, women, and children on this earth have been called to accomplish certain things, 239 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:01,280 been prepared by the Lord, and all according to our exceeding faith in good works and the 240 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:08,840 choices that we made in our pre-moral existence or in the first place or in our first estate. 241 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:15,200 Well, and then just the first sentence of verse 4, and thus they have been called to 242 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,240 this holy calling on account of their faith. 243 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,640 Exactly. 244 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:20,640 On account of their faith. 245 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,160 So we had faith there, too. 246 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,000 That we exercised. 247 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,280 And we had faith in what? 248 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,360 Did we have faith in Jesus? 249 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,400 Did we have faith in our Heavenly Father? 250 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,040 And we're not talking about faith that they existed at this point. 251 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:40,760 We're not talking about faith that they're real or that they love us or that their best 252 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,300 interest is for us. 253 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:46,360 We already know that at this point in our pre-moral life. 254 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,680 But what that faith is in is that faith is actually in the atonement of Jesus Christ 255 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:56,320 and the power of that to our redemption and to our returning home to Him by being made 256 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:03,120 holy through the blood of the Lamb that will be yet to still happen, which is yet to still 257 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,320 happen in that part of our existence, right? 258 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,600 Yeah, absolutely. 259 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,000 Faith that we would succeed. 260 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,000 Yeah. 261 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,220 And return to our heavenly home. 262 00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:14,160 And faith that He would do what He said. 263 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,160 Exactly. 264 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:20,560 The faith in Jesus Christ that He would live a sinless life, that He was willing to bleed 265 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,360 from every poor and do all that He was commanded to do. 266 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:29,120 I believe, David, that that faith, having that faith there, we probably weren't just 267 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:30,120 born with that faith. 268 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:35,320 I mean, there was probably some establishment of some experiences in a relationship that 269 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:36,600 was established there. 270 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,680 We can't just say, okay, I have faith, and that comes from nothing. 271 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,480 That faith had to come from a relationship with Him there, too. 272 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,840 So as important as our relationship is here, as important as our relationship is in eternity 273 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:49,840 with Him. 274 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,600 So our relationship with Him there was really quite solid, as is evidenced by our existence 275 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,000 here in mortality. 276 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:04,640 Well, in several weeks, we'll do another podcast just on faith and what faith is and what it's 277 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:05,680 based on. 278 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:13,120 But according to the lectures on faith, faith is knowing the character, attributes, and 279 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,720 perfections of God or of Jesus Christ. 280 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:23,120 When we would have known Him there, Scott, we could exercise great faith in Him because 281 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,240 we knew Him there. 282 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,360 We knew His character. 283 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:27,480 We knew His attributes. 284 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,040 We knew His perfections. 285 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,080 Well, and then it contrasts, though. 286 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,440 It says, while others would reject the Spirit of God on account of the heart. 287 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,360 Now, this is important because we need to understand that when we feel distance from 288 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:43,240 God, there can be a rejection there. 289 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,980 And if we understand what can prevent us from entering into that rejection, I think we have 290 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,000 a little bit of the recipe for that right here. 291 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,880 This is Alma 13-4. 292 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,600 While others, and it's, so I'll just start at the beginning. 293 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:03,080 And thus, they have been called to this holy calling on account of their faith. 294 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,760 Okay, now this is the new part. 295 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,240 Well, not new, but this is the part that I'm adding now. 296 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,180 While others would reject the Spirit of God on account of the hardness of their hearts. 297 00:23:13,180 --> 00:23:16,520 So what's the first thing that to kind of, you know, one of the things that we really 298 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,600 need to look for is the hardness of our hearts. 299 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,320 And that hardness of our hearts can come about by so many ways, usually neglect to the things 300 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,020 that are righteous and sacred. 301 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:33,240 But then, and it says, and blindness of their minds, while if it had not been for this, 302 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,700 the hardness of their heart and the blindness of their minds, and we can put that into so 303 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:40,300 many terms that are relevant today. 304 00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:44,260 But had it not been for this, they might have been, they might have had as great a privilege 305 00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:46,320 as their brother, meaning us. 306 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,320 Yeah. 307 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,320 Yeah. 308 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,880 Which is describing Satan and the one third that chose to follow him. 309 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,880 Right. 310 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,840 That they were deceived because, and this is true for Satan as well as it is for them, 311 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,700 it began from a hardness of heart and blindness of mind. 312 00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:06,160 They couldn't see it. 313 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,880 They couldn't, they didn't have the eye of faith, Scott. 314 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,880 Yeah. 315 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:17,160 They didn't have the eye of faith and their hearts became hard because of their pride. 316 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:26,880 So many years ago this happened and I was grateful to participate in a small way in 317 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:33,920 this, but well, it's been quite a thing and it's affected me in many ways. 318 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,680 It still does as a patriarch. 319 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:46,400 When we lived in Minnesota, Scott, my second son, Devin, was just always such a great young 320 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:53,400 man, very loving, loved his family, loved his parents, loved the church, but we couldn't 321 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,760 quite get him all the way connected. 322 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,840 He just kind of held back a little bit on some things. 323 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:07,440 Temple trips, you know, to Chicago and they didn't this before we had a St. Paul temple, 324 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:14,440 but temple trips, he was reluctant to participate in that. 325 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:21,280 He was reluctant to sit at the sacrament table when he was a priest and he was just, he was 326 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,360 more into basketball than he was into the church. 327 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:31,280 I mean his identity, this was his identity, was he saw himself as a basketball player 328 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160 and he was very successful at it. 329 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:44,320 And was captain of, this was a 6A power basketball league and team that he participated in in 330 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:50,440 the Lake Conference and he was the captain of his basketball team in point guard and 331 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:59,760 he was all conference and he got a lot of attention from it and he was successful. 332 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:06,280 And he went on and played a little college basketball and was captain of his college 333 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:13,600 basketball team and broke a record for most assists on his college basketball team. 334 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:21,520 Anyway, you know I was concerned about him, he had a non-member girlfriend from high school 335 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:28,600 who was, whose parents were actually anti-Mormon and I was just really concerned about, you 336 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:37,480 know, the future of my son and knew that if that relationship continued any further that 337 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,120 maybe I would have grandchildren who wouldn't be members of the church or be in the covenant 338 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:48,760 and that was a great concern to me so I was always praying, Chris and I, my wife and I 339 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:55,240 were always praying that please change Devin, please change Devin and one night I was somewhat 340 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:01,480 chastised, stop praying for me to change Devin, I learned a great lesson about prayer and 341 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:08,600 the importance of words in our prayers because one night praying again for God to change 342 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,400 Devin, the Spirit chastised me and said quit praying for Devin and start praying for you, 343 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,000 that you'll be a better dad for Devin. 344 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:26,560 So that changed kind of the course of my prayers and my behaviours towards him and so I started 345 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,680 to pray that I would be inspired to know how I could help him. 346 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:40,340 One day I was driving down I-35 in Minneapolis, Minnesota and I was prompted to call him. 347 00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:49,480 Obviously he wouldn't answer my calls always, he was busy and probably knew he would get 348 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,940 another gospel lecture and would turn into that possibly and so he was somewhat reluctant 349 00:27:55,940 --> 00:28:04,280 to do that and I called him and he picked up right away and I said hey Devin, I've been 350 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:11,720 thinking about you and thinking about maybe we need a change and what would you think 351 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,720 about maybe considering about moving out to Utah. 352 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:23,000 Mom and I, we've been asked to move out to Utah and we're going to go but how would you 353 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,940 feel about that and he said that he would. 354 00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:32,280 He said that he would and that he needed a change. 355 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,120 He said I need a change and I just felt like I don't know what the events were in his life 356 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:41,040 at the time but what was going on or the specifics but I felt like he had been prepared for this 357 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,840 phone call. 358 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,500 And this is after, this happens after Scott. 359 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:53,000 One time when I picked him up from college and I was driving back to college, I was talking 360 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,840 to him about the church and the gospel and I said so son, do you go to church once in 361 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:00,840 a while? 362 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,280 And he said yeah dad, I go once in a while. 363 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,240 I don't know what that meant but yeah I go once in a while, little branch they had up 364 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:17,760 where his college team was in northern Minnesota and I said so son, are you still thinking 365 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,760 about a mission? 366 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,360 Because we talked a lot about that before he left home right? 367 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:30,680 And he said, this was kind of crushing for me, dad, I'm not ever going to go on a mission 368 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:36,160 again, I'm not a missionary and please don't talk to me anymore about that, don't use the 369 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,480 M word anymore around me. 370 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,920 That was really hard for me Scott but Chris and I still hadn't given up on that idea, 371 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,720 we still prayed that maybe that would be a possibility for him and on this particular 372 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:54,680 back to the conversation about moving out to Utah, he said dad, I think I'd like to, 373 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,780 I need a change, I need to make a change, I think I'd be willing to do that. 374 00:29:58,780 --> 00:30:04,760 So we made arrangements right then and there, I know that was so timely and thankful for 375 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:11,940 the spirit prompting that phone call that I would drive him out to Utah, even before 376 00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:14,720 we moved, this was like in June or May or June. 377 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,600 Did you want to get him out there before he changed his mind? 378 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:18,600 Yes. 379 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:19,600 I bet. 380 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:26,360 Like immediately, so I put everything off in my work and within a week or two I drove 381 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,040 him out to Utah, left him at my mother's house. 382 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,600 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 383 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,080 What a great place to be left. 384 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:41,320 And I got a flight home and he was in Utah and anyway, and then he met or was lined up 385 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:47,800 with the sweetest girl from Alpine and they started to date him and Brittany. 386 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,000 Wow, he really was impressed by her, loved her. 387 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,000 As well he should. 388 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,640 I know Brittany, I know her mom quite well and he should. 389 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,480 Yeah, you do, good friends, you went to school with her mother and I love her mother and 390 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,280 dad and all of her family and Devin did too early on. 391 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,600 They actually came back to Minnesota within a few months after him moving out here and 392 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,900 before we moved out to Utah from Minnesota. 393 00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:21,640 So she spent a week in her home in Minnesota and I was so grateful and was hopeful that 394 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:27,560 that would work out and was also hopeful that Brittany would maybe be an influence on him 395 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,680 to help him go on a mission. 396 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:38,040 But anyway, we moved back to Utah in I think August and they came to us, Brittany and Devin, 397 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,960 in October after moving back a few months later. 398 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:49,360 So they've been dating for like four or five months and they say, dad, Devin, this Devin 399 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:55,720 talking to mom and me, we've decided that we're gonna be married sometime in the spring 400 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,680 and we wanted you to be the first to know. 401 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:04,280 And I said, oh, that's, congratulations, that's really great, really happy for you. 402 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:13,440 And I asked kind of while I held my breath, in the temple, and he said, dad, we're gonna 403 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,000 work towards that, we want that. 404 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,400 I said, that's awesome, son. 405 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:24,080 That's the bottom line, really, get married in the temple and that's awesome. 406 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:33,600 And then I felt impressed to say, Devin, will you just do me one favor? 407 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,200 Get your patriarchal blessing before you get married. 408 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,600 I've been trying to get you to do that since you were 16. 409 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:47,440 Will you please get your patriarchal blessing before you get married? 410 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,560 And he said, I'll think about it. 411 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,800 Now, I was not a patriarch at the time, this was before I was ever ordained a patriarch, 412 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,920 but I just felt impressed to tell him that. 413 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:03,040 And a few weeks later, I was driving home from work, I was teaching at the Institute 414 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:10,160 of Religion in Orem and UVU and Devin calls me on the phone about six o'clock at night. 415 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,640 Hey, dad, where does the patriarch in our stake live? 416 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:21,000 And I said, hey, son, you can't just show up, bud. 417 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,880 You gotta make an appointment before that, you have to see the bishop, you have to have 418 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,480 an interview, be worthy, get a recommend. 419 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,320 You know, it takes some preparation. 420 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:38,900 And he says, hey, dad, I've seen the bishop, I have a recommend, I have an appointment 421 00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:43,400 at seven o'clock tonight, I've been fasting and praying all day. 422 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,000 Will you just tell me where he lives? 423 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,200 I was so grateful, but so surprised. 424 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,600 I said, oh, son, that's so great. 425 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,280 Mom and I are invited, right, I asked? 426 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:03,080 No, he said, if it's okay, I just want this to be between me and the patriarch. 427 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:04,080 I said, what about Brittany? 428 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,080 Is she gonna go? 429 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:11,320 Because I thought if she's gonna go, I'm gonna go. 430 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,360 And he said, no, she's not gonna go with me either. 431 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:21,500 But if it's okay, would it be okay if she came over to the house while I go get my blessing, 432 00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:25,520 and then I'll come home and see you all after my blessing. 433 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,120 And I said, oh, yeah, absolutely, of course. 434 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,880 So Brittany came to our home, and Devin went to get his blessing, and we're sitting there 435 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:40,960 talking, and about an hour goes by, and Devin drives up, and Devin comes into our home after 436 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,040 receiving his blessing. 437 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,080 And I don't know why, but this left such an impression on me, and one of my favorite parts 438 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,960 of the whole story is he opens the door, and he looks kind of white. 439 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,320 He just has a different look about him. 440 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,200 I mean, he looks kind of flushed or nervous. 441 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,920 And he opens the door, and he won't let go of the doorknob. 442 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,720 He just opens the, swings the door open, and he's holding the doorknob, clutching the doorknob. 443 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:18,120 He's holding fast, and he won't let go, and he says, hey, Brittany, I have to talk to 444 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,120 you outside. 445 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,120 And she- 446 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,240 How is dad feeling right now? 447 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:25,240 Oh, man. 448 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,240 I thought, what? 449 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:30,360 I, you know, it was just abrupt like that. 450 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,720 She gets up and kind of shrugs, and we don't know how to, we're surprised, and she walks 451 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:35,720 out. 452 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,040 And I think, what is going on? 453 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:43,040 And I run upstairs to look out our bedroom window to see what's going on. 454 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,600 Like any good dad would. 455 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,600 Peeking through the blinds. 456 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,520 Yeah, that's right. 457 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:55,040 They're leaning against his car, and there's, I think they're crying, and I could see him 458 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,080 kind of pushing tears and wiping tears. 459 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:07,760 And anyway, so a while later, I go back downstairs, and a while later, they come back in the house. 460 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:15,000 Devin says, we're gonna go, we're gonna go, and I'll tell you about it tomorrow. 461 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,280 I go, oh, man. 462 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,280 So they left. 463 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,280 They left. 464 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,960 And my wife and I are sitting there thinking, oh, no, you know, we've been through a lot 465 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:33,120 with this sweet boy, this precious son, and wonder what's really going on, and we're kind 466 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,080 of worried. 467 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:42,160 But we didn't wait up, and I, well, I didn't sleep much, but he came home sometime a little 468 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,400 after midnight, and I made sure I got up early the next morning, and I was downstairs waiting 469 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,000 in the kitchen when he came up to go to work about 6 a.m. 470 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:57,920 I said, son, please, please, can you tell me what happened last night? 471 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:04,160 This is a boy who's been so great in so many ways, but I've never heard him bear his testimony, 472 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,680 Scott, even though I believed, I always believed he was born with a testimony, like I believe 473 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:10,800 most are. 474 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,800 Like we talked about last week, I think, actually. 475 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,520 Right, by the word of their testimony. 476 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:22,360 I always believed he had one, and I always knew there was a spiritual depth to him. 477 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,640 And yeah, I've never heard him bear his testimony, and I say, so, son, please, tell me, can you 478 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,980 tell me, please, what happened last night? 479 00:37:30,980 --> 00:37:37,600 He kind of looks at me and he says, so, dad, I had a vision. 480 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,920 And I said, you what? 481 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,840 He said, I had a vision. 482 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,360 I got a glimpse of who I am. 483 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,680 And I said, what does that mean, son? 484 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,960 Explain, please. 485 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:57,880 And he said, well, when the patriarch laid his hands on my head, he mentioned my premortal 486 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:04,080 existence, and I saw myself in the premortal existence. 487 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:13,120 And I was, this is a quote, I think, I was very influential in helping people to follow 488 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,200 Jesus Christ and not follow Satan. 489 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:23,880 And I heard a voice, dad, this is all while the patriarch's giving him his blessing, and 490 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:31,720 I heard a voice, dad, and it said, if you did that there, you have to do it here. 491 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:39,680 And he looks at me and he stretches out his arms and he says, so, I gotta go on a mission, 492 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,680 and the engagement's off. 493 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,480 Well, it was miraculous. 494 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,720 It was amazing, Scott. 495 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:52,680 Once he got a glimpse of who he was and of his premoral existence and who he was there, 496 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,920 influential in getting people to follow Jesus Christ. 497 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:02,040 It completely changed, like immediately. 498 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:09,240 It was simultaneous, immediate, that he completely changed how he saw himself and his purpose 499 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:11,440 in his life. 500 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,160 It changed how he saw everything. 501 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,560 Anyway, and Brittany was so great about this. 502 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,840 Brittany, they had actually gone to a park that night, I later found out, and Brittany 503 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:32,720 was so encouraging and so happy and committed to wait for him even though they decided to 504 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:35,320 not be engaged while he served. 505 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:41,920 But he told her that he had to go on a mission and she was like his biggest cheerleader. 506 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,640 And yet, I know that it was really hard for her too. 507 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:54,040 And she supported him, and they were amazing during that two-year period. 508 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,040 He was such a great missionary. 509 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:05,840 Went in the MTC in Provo on his 23rd birthday to serve in Florida and served a really successful 510 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:13,000 mission and came home, and three weeks later, him and Brittany were married in the temple. 511 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:20,840 I'll never forget that picture of him coming home, Scott, in the airport, and him and Brittany 512 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:28,840 falling into one another's arms after both having made that sacrifice. 513 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:36,320 And their relationship had become consecrated because of his sacrifice. 514 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,480 And they have such a sweet family. 515 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:48,560 They just have four beautiful children, and Devin and Brittany are doing very well. 516 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,160 And I pray that they'll endure the end and the covenants that they've made. 517 00:40:53,160 --> 00:41:01,200 But the point of that story is that if we could all just get a glimpse and see who we 518 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:08,920 were there, how it would change us here and now, immediately. 519 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,300 That's the point. 520 00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:19,080 And I know that if we would, again, I haven't seen myself in the pre-immortal existence, 521 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:24,700 and again, my patriarchal blessing says nothing about it, and I think many maybe don't. 522 00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:26,800 But we can get that glimpse. 523 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:36,240 When you read, for example, when we read Abraham chapter 3, Scott, I hope that based on the 524 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:42,680 testimony of prophets who have read this and the commentary that have been given over the 525 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:50,000 many years, this is one of the most, I think, quoted scriptures in general conference. 526 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,320 You read Abraham chapter 3, verse 22, starting with verse 22. 527 00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:02,540 Now, the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized. 528 00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:09,160 So before we were spirits and organized as spirits, we were intelligences in the pre-immortal 529 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,940 existence, and unfortunately, we have a lot to learn about what that means and our eternal 530 00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:18,640 existence even before we were created as spirits. 531 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,640 And I'm anxious to learn more about that in the next life because we don't know—not 532 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,520 much has been revealed to us about that in this life. 533 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:26,940 So let me start over. 534 00:42:26,940 --> 00:42:32,520 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the 535 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:42,240 world was, and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones. 536 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:48,200 And God saw these souls that they were good, and He stood in the midst of them, and He 537 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:55,320 said, These I will make my rulers, for He stood among those that were spirits, and He 538 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,640 saw that they were good. 539 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,700 And He said unto me, Abraham, Thou art one of them. 540 00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:08,560 Thou wast chosen before thou wast born. 541 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:16,040 And if we skip down to verse 26, And they who keep their first estate, or our pre-immortal 542 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:22,080 existence, or the first place, as Alma called it, they shall be added upon, and they who 543 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:30,160 keep not their first estate, that's the one-third, shall not have glory in the same kingdom with 544 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,320 those who keep their first estate. 545 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:39,160 And those who keep their second estate, which is here in mortality, shall have glory added 546 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,760 upon their heads forever and ever. 547 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:52,400 Well, I think if we carefully, prayerfully ponder and meditate upon those verses and 548 00:43:52,400 --> 00:44:00,200 that truth, Scott, we could all maybe get a glimpse of who we were, how we've been taught 549 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:07,520 this by prophets, that we participated in the Grand Council of Heaven, we all sustained 550 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:16,040 Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, we had gifts and talents and responsibilities 551 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:24,640 and for ordinations that we received there, responsibilities that we had there. 552 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:31,080 I think we could get something of a glimpse of all of that as we ponder the truths of 553 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,600 the Scriptures and the words and teachings of the prophets. 554 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:39,880 Well, I think that that's one of the reasons that Heavenly Father has given us the teachings 555 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,080 and the words of the prophets, is so that we can get that glimpse of who we are. 556 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,200 He really desires for us to have that glimpse, and he's gone to great lengths to help us 557 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,400 to achieve that here in mortality through the Scriptures, through the prophets, even 558 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,000 through our temple experience and our covenant paths. 559 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:05,780 I know that he has provided all of that for us, not just so that we will ultimately become 560 00:45:05,780 --> 00:45:11,760 heirs and joint heirs, but to give us sustenance and sustaining and strength in our efforts 561 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:18,480 to do so while we're here, because the enemy, the adversary, the accuser that we read about 562 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,960 last week, he will try to distort our testimonies. 563 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,440 He will try to make us believe that the blood of the lamb has no effect. 564 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,400 And he's been successful. 565 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,400 We see success all around us. 566 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,440 Yeah, pre-mortally and mortally. 567 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,980 Yeah, pre-mortally and maybe even more than two-thirds here, or a third here. 568 00:45:39,980 --> 00:45:42,160 I don't know. 569 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:50,040 But just to have that glimpse of who we are, that remembering of some sort, to pray, to 570 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:56,320 go to the temple, when we fast, when we do whatever it is that we do to make a connection 571 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,480 with Heavenly Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, and to enable the Spirit of the Holy 572 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,420 Ghost to be in our lives. 573 00:46:02,420 --> 00:46:07,840 As we catch that glimpse, it makes more solid our efforts and our commitment and our desire 574 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:14,800 becomes deeper and greater to serve and to be able to, through the blood of the lamb, 575 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,480 through the atonement of Jesus Christ, to return home. 576 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:18,480 Right. 577 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,480 That's our home. 578 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:20,480 Absolutely. 579 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:26,640 And it's important that we understand, Scott, you couldn't be neutral there. 580 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,080 You couldn't sit on the fence there. 581 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:30,960 You had to choose there. 582 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:36,800 And one-third chose to follow Satan, and the two-thirds followed Jesus Christ. 583 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:42,400 And all those who followed Jesus Christ received bodies and are on this earth. 584 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,960 We all follow Jesus Christ there. 585 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:54,000 I think that's such an important truth to know that we were His disciples and that we, 586 00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:00,960 I mean, I think it may make people feel uncomfortable when they think of themselves as being noble 587 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,720 and great in the pre-mortal existence. 588 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:03,720 I don't know why that is. 589 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:04,720 It's something— 590 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:09,960 Well, that's part of the confusion that the adversary's trying to put upon us. 591 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,720 The accuser does not want us to believe that we were noble and great. 592 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:16,160 That's one of his accusations. 593 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,160 You're nobody. 594 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,280 In the pre-mortal existence. 595 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,280 Right. 596 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:26,240 And if he can get us to believe that we were nobody there and our existence before this 597 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:31,960 life didn't matter and that we were probably weak and losers there, then we're gonna be 598 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,240 weak and losers here. 599 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:37,460 Or even worse, that it never existed and it's all just by happenstance that we're here by 600 00:47:37,460 --> 00:47:44,000 some ex nihilo phenomenon. 601 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,000 Exactly. 602 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:52,720 Anyway, this truth, this doctrine can be life-changing. 603 00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:57,760 And another example I have of that is when I was a bishop in Minnesota and there was 604 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:05,960 another sweet bishop, you know, who I was close to and he and I would often commiserate 605 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,120 with one another and counsel with one another. 606 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:13,720 I mean, sometimes it's hard to—there are some things you can't even tell your counselors, 607 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:19,440 but sometimes you have to just talk to another bishop about it. 608 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,360 And he and I would sometimes have those conversations and one day we were having a conversation 609 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:33,320 about his own son and his son who was struggling, who was charismatic, good-looking, handsome, 610 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:40,720 you know, very influential in his high school and not keeping the commandments, not doing 611 00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,000 the things that were right. 612 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:49,000 And this sweet bishop is sharing with me his concerns and fears, frustrations about that. 613 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,600 And as we were talking about that, you know, it came back into my mind what President Boyd 614 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,240 K. Packer had taught over and over again. 615 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:04,400 True doctrine understood changes behavior. 616 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:09,360 More than a discussion of behavior changes behavior. 617 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:10,400 This is really important. 618 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:19,320 True doctrine understood—not just true doctrine, but true doctrine understood changes behavior. 619 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:27,000 Well, so in our conversation we were counseling together and I suggested, so instead of talking 620 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:36,600 about his behaviors every time he gets in trouble, why don't you try teaching him doctrine? 621 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,560 Focus on doctrine. 622 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:46,080 Well, it was the weekend after that or the few weeks after that that his son had come 623 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:52,440 home and he again had been drinking or doing things that he shouldn't have been doing, 624 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:53,440 not keeping the commandments. 625 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:58,080 And he comes home and his dad, the bishop, is waiting up for him. 626 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:07,520 And he comes in and this time instead of getting upset or focusing on his behaviors, he just 627 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:13,920 —I don't want to use his real name, so we'll just use the name of Sam—and he says to 628 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:21,040 him, Sam, what do you believe about your premortal existence? 629 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,360 I don't know. 630 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,600 Do you believe you sat on the fence there? 631 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,480 I don't know. 632 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,240 Well, I know you didn't. 633 00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:39,960 You followed Jesus Christ in the premortal existence. 634 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:47,960 You are among the noble and great ones, Sam, and if you were that there, why are you not 635 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,880 doing it here? 636 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,440 That was in the essence of the message of his father, the bishop. 637 00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:03,880 Sam later told his dad how he could not get that off his mind, and he didn't sleep well 638 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:08,040 that night, and he could not forget. 639 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:13,880 The words were accompanied not just the truth, but the words, the truth, was accompanied 640 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:21,880 by the Spirit, and Sam understood he was not neutral in the premortal existence. 641 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:30,800 Why was he not being more committed in living the gospel here and that he had to change? 642 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,560 And he did, Scott. 643 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,680 And he became a powerful missionary as well. 644 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:41,880 He put in his papers shortly after he got out of high school, so you can go until you 645 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:47,800 were 19 then, but he changed, and that was the turning point in his life. 646 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,280 Now, I know it doesn't always work that way. 647 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:51,620 I know that. 648 00:51:51,620 --> 00:51:54,120 But true doctrine understood changes of behavior. 649 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:55,480 I know that. 650 00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:04,760 And I believe one of the most powerful points of doctrine that we can teach is our premortal 651 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:14,320 existence, and how noble and great and valiant and true and exceedingly faithful we were 652 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,000 there. 653 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:23,200 Next week and in subsequent episodes, we're going to begin talking about, we'll start 654 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:28,640 talking about the fall, and we'll start talking about the conditions of the fall and the effects 655 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:35,640 of the fall and how in this life we are living in the effects of the fall. 656 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,040 And one of the effects of the fall is that we have that forgetting, right? 657 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,040 We have that veil. 658 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,040 Yeah. 659 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,040 These noble and great ones come down and they become nothing. 660 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:45,640 Yeah, and they're like, who am I? 661 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,120 I just don't understand. 662 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:55,440 And, you know, but as we talk about how the Spirit of the Holy Ghost is the administrator 663 00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:00,680 of the atonement of Jesus Christ, well, that's the beginning of that administration of the 664 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,480 atonement. 665 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,520 Even the witness from the Holy Spirit of who we are, that's the beginning of the administration 666 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,960 of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives, David. 667 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:10,960 No, absolutely. 668 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:17,100 In fact, I'm glad you said that because really, I think, to really feel the full effects of 669 00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:24,400 the atonement of Jesus Christ, to really understand the mission and the atonement of Jesus Christ, 670 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:32,760 we have to better understand the true doctrine of His premortal existence and our own premortal 671 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:40,200 existence and the role of Jesus Christ and His atonement even before we were born, and 672 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,200 our role in defending it. 673 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:48,920 And then as we begin to understand our role there and we defended it, how we defended 674 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:55,520 it and as we filled those poles back to home, our heavenly home, suddenly then, and maybe 675 00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:00,560 not suddenly, but maybe over time and maybe line upon line and precept upon precept, and 676 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:06,340 I'm sure for some it does come suddenly, but then we find ourselves, we find our feet walking 677 00:54:06,340 --> 00:54:08,120 the covenant path. 678 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:14,360 And as we do that, as we continue and begin to walk that covenant path, the atonement 679 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,560 of Jesus Christ just takes care of everything in our lives. 680 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:18,560 Amen. 681 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:19,560 And that's why. 682 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:26,320 I mean, ultimately, bottom line, why we need to know is because as we know, then the power 683 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:31,360 of Jesus Christ through His atonement can start to work in our lives. 684 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,840 And with a little bit of effort, and it takes effort, and with a little bit of daily effort 685 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,880 and a little bit of constant effort and enduring to the end effort, and that's all enduring 686 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,160 to the end is just a constant effort. 687 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:44,160 And as we- 688 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,240 And that effort, Scott, is part of the exceeding faith. 689 00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:51,520 I mean, faith is action for effort. 690 00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,060 And it's also a demonstration of love. 691 00:54:55,060 --> 00:54:56,800 Love is a verb. 692 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:04,240 And we show our love to Him by following Him and by putting on His atonement. 693 00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:08,780 First off, beginning to know who we are and remembering who we are. 694 00:55:08,780 --> 00:55:13,360 And with that, not listening to the buffeting of the adversary- 695 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,080 The accusations. 696 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,200 The accusations, even better. 697 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:22,000 The accusations of the adversary yelling in our spiritual ears, you're nothing. 698 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,000 You're nothing. 699 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,000 You never existed there. 700 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,000 It's just a big hoax. 701 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,080 What are you doing? 702 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,320 All you got to do is be a good person. 703 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:29,920 All you have, there is, in fact- 704 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,160 What if it's not true? 705 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:33,160 Yeah. 706 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:34,160 Yeah. 707 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,160 And that's the biggest part. 708 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:40,800 We talked a couple weeks ago about that whole relative truth, but that's where it starts. 709 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:41,980 That's where it starts. 710 00:55:41,980 --> 00:55:49,480 And if He can get us to forget or not remember who we are, then His work is just a heck of 711 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,480 a lot easier. 712 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,460 Identity is everything. 713 00:55:53,460 --> 00:55:56,560 Identity determines eternity. 714 00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,120 Yeah. 715 00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,600 I know that we have listeners, and I know this firsthand. 716 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,120 I'm not speculating on this. 717 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,800 I know this because of conversations I've had, because of communication that I've received, 718 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:09,800 and so forth. 719 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:16,080 But there's many among us who sometimes forget who we are, that sometimes don't understand 720 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:24,760 our own greatness, that we are indeed children of divinity. 721 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:33,120 We have a heritage, a spiritual heritage that qualifies us to be heirs, joined heirs of 722 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,720 all that the Father has. 723 00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:42,480 And we have promised to us the ability to feel His love, to receive His direction through 724 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,760 our own sacrifice and determination and work. 725 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:52,840 It takes a little work on our part, too, to stay on the covenant path and to follow Him 726 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,120 as we remember who we are. 727 00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,800 You know, as we partake of the sacrament, we covenant to remember Him. 728 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:03,240 And I think before we can honestly remember Him, we do need to remember who we are. 729 00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:10,160 And there's something, you know, for some, they may be thinking, well, it sounds prideful. 730 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:11,160 Yeah. 731 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:12,160 Right. 732 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:13,160 Yeah. 733 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:19,320 Actually, when I think about who I really am, and I get a glimpse of that, Scott, it 734 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,080 actually humbles me. 735 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:22,120 Oh, yeah. 736 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:29,720 It's the humility that comes in the wake of knowing who you are that is so powerful. 737 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:40,960 The humility to know of the faithfulness and the gifts and talents of testimony and faith 738 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:47,880 and all of that that we had in the pre-mortal existence actually has effect of complete 739 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:48,880 humility and meekness. 740 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:49,880 Right. 741 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:50,880 Yeah, it does. 742 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,880 It rushes over me. 743 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,140 And so there's no pride in that. 744 00:57:55,140 --> 00:58:01,320 And I think it's one of the keys, really, of our humility is to know who we are. 745 00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,440 And I'll just say this in closing as a final thought. 746 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:10,200 But I experienced this because of my involvement in recovery rooms. 747 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,000 You've experienced it for many, many reasons. 748 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,660 Classrooms. 749 00:58:14,660 --> 00:58:19,400 Not the least of which would be your classrooms and all of your leadership service that you've 750 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:26,440 been blessed to be able to participate in and others have been blessed by that. 751 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,880 But there are those probably who are thinking, you know, it's easy for you guys to say this. 752 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:31,880 It's really easy. 753 00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:37,200 You're sitting there behind some microphones and you're in a nice place and you're on the 754 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,760 other end of a lot of the difficulties in your life. 755 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,480 Not that there aren't some still looming, perhaps, but a lot of your difficulties in 756 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:44,480 your life. 757 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:49,360 But if you knew what I was going through, it may not be as easy for you, Scott and David, 758 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:50,840 to say the things that you're saying. 759 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:51,960 And I get that. 760 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:52,960 I get that. 761 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,400 I remember feeling that myself. 762 00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:00,680 Not all that long ago, you know, but I didn't really catch that glimpse until a few years 763 00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,920 into, I mean, really catch that glimpse. 764 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,560 I was getting little tiny glimpses, but really catch that glimpse until a few years into 765 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:08,560 recovery. 766 00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:14,320 I had had to go through some disciplinary councils and some reckonings and some reconciliations 767 00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,680 of my own, which was really important. 768 00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:22,280 But as I did that, and I struggled with my own spiritual identity from time to time, 769 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,880 and if I were to be honest, I maybe sometimes still do. 770 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:33,560 I think we're all susceptible, perhaps, to feeling down about ourselves and all of that. 771 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,420 This is my witness and maybe even my invitation. 772 00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:42,560 My witness is that if you draw nigh unto me, he said, I will draw nigh unto you. 773 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,840 And as I made effort to do that, I would get these little glimpses. 774 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:51,280 And then the accuser would come in and say, you're not worthy to get this glimpse. 775 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,500 Look at all the garbage you've done and accuse me again of all the stuff in my past. 776 00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:56,720 And I wouldn't feel worthy. 777 00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,480 And I would think, I'm just tricking myself, you know. 778 01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,480 But don't listen to that. 779 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,960 Listen only to the warm feelings that come as we make an effort. 780 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,280 And that's my invitation. 781 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:13,240 For those of us, and it might be all of us, for those of us who could use some help in 782 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:20,000 understanding deeper and greater who we are, I invite us over this next week to make a 783 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:26,980 lot of effort in doing that through scripture study, through prayer, through studying the 784 01:00:26,980 --> 01:00:33,720 words of the apostles and prophets, and then culminating that Sunday, that's a sacrament 785 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:34,780 table. 786 01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:39,500 And as we renew covenants that we've made, and if we are not partaking of the sacrament 787 01:00:39,500 --> 01:00:45,360 for whatever reason at this time, we can still sit there and we can still think about Him 788 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,880 and His importance and effect in our life. 789 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:53,680 And as we do that, I believe that I can, without fear of successful contradiction, believe 790 01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,520 that we will, at least at some level. 791 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,880 And it will be varying depending on our own levels of commitment and righteousness. 792 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,440 That we can and will receive a witness of who we are. 793 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:06,440 That's His intent. 794 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:07,440 He wants us. 795 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:08,680 He doesn't want to withhold that stuff from us. 796 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,920 He wants us to know. 797 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,920 If we seek, we will. 798 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,400 Yeah, Scott, thank you so much. 799 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,680 And just a final thought. 800 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,120 There's lots of questions that we need to answer in this life. 801 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,120 We need to answer how. 802 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,120 How can I? 803 01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:28,680 How do we? 804 01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:34,640 We need to answer questions like, what am I supposed to do, the what's of life, right? 805 01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,400 The how's and the what's. 806 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,520 And we need to answer the why questions. 807 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,360 You know, why am I here? 808 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,080 All those questions. 809 01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:44,640 Where am I going? 810 01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,640 So many questions. 811 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:55,280 But I believe the single most important question that has to be answered by us in the deepest 812 01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:02,840 realms of our heart and soul is, who am I? 813 01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,080 And who is God? 814 01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:16,880 If we can answer the who questions, Scott, it gives us the motivating powers that we 815 01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:25,040 need to be able to then search and receive answers to all of the other important questions 816 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:26,040 of life. 817 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:33,880 But the single most important questions in this life begin with who. 818 01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:41,340 And I hope that our listeners will read, go search the topical guide under man, anti-mortal 819 01:02:41,340 --> 01:02:42,340 existence of. 820 01:02:42,340 --> 01:02:46,360 You'll find that in the topical guide of the Bible. 821 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,620 Go read about who we are. 822 01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:49,880 Look it up. 823 01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,340 Study the pre-mortal existence. 824 01:02:52,340 --> 01:02:57,740 Study what prophets have said about us participating in the Grand Council of Heaven, being noble 825 01:02:57,740 --> 01:02:59,520 and great. 826 01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:04,640 Use the conference reports and the citation indexes that are available. 827 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:05,640 Go search. 828 01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:15,280 And as you search and pay that price and ponder and meditate and pray, we can all get a glimpse 829 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,320 of who we are. 830 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:23,640 And once we know who we are and who God is, it changes everything. 831 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:29,080 And it's our prayer that each of us will experience that and participate in that. 832 01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,080 Thanks for being with us. 833 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,240 We look forward to being with you again next week. 834 01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,640 And until then, may God bless you and may you always remember that you have been redeemed 835 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:37,640 through His blood. 836 01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,120 Thanks for being with us. 837 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:52,880 See you next week.