1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,080 Hey there everybody and welcome out. 2 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:20,880 We have another podcast here today. 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,960 My name is Scott Durfey joined as always by my partner David Durfee. 4 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:25,960 Say hi Dave. 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:26,960 See you Scott everybody. 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:33,640 Have a beautiful winter morning and hope that you're all doing well. 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:43,400 I've been thinking Scott about life and sometimes you know we're thankful for life. 8 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:50,360 But I was thinking this week that I need to be more thankful for my life. 9 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,840 Even in our trials you know we all have different trials. 10 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:58,760 And not all of our lives are even close to being the same. 11 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,400 And I was just thinking the other day and the spirit kind of washed over me. 12 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,640 You need to be more thankful for your life. 13 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:15,400 Find joy in your life not just in life in general. 14 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:22,560 Well there's a load of wisdom in that and an indictment for me. 15 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,640 Because I'm in the exact same boat. 16 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:32,080 I've actually had in fact you know I talk often about how I do a 10th step inventory. 17 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,840 Which those of you who are unfamiliar with that you'll get familiar with it as we go 18 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:36,840 along. 19 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,200 But each night most nights and I've been pretty good at it since the first of the year. 20 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:46,920 Each night I take a personal inventory of my character defects and even some of the 21 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,880 things that are going right just so that I can keep this ship on track right. 22 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,280 It's kind of like the daily repentance right. 23 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:54,280 Yeah. 24 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,400 That's all it really is. 25 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,200 It's a conscious effort of daily repentance. 26 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:06,800 And then you know as part of that we're encouraged to when we're wrong or when we're amiss or 27 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,720 things aren't in sort to just kind of promptly fix that. 28 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,960 But I need to be more thankful for my life too. 29 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:15,840 And so this is. 30 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,440 I need to not just be thankful but find joy in my life. 31 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,440 In my life. 32 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:27,200 In what God has given me even in my trials and my tribulations. 33 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:28,200 Yeah joy. 34 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:34,760 I don't know again I can't quit thinking about that scripture that President Nelson used 35 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:42,480 several conferences ago describing how did Jesus how did how did he do the atonement. 36 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:48,040 How did he have the power or strength to do the atonement. 37 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,080 And he quotes that scripture in Hebrews right. 38 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,480 That it was for the joy. 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:53,480 Yeah. 40 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,960 And he's saying wow he really stresses that that for the joy. 41 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,000 Do you have it there. 42 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,400 Yeah you have it right here in Hebrews 12 chapter 12 verse 2 actually. 43 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,720 It says looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that 44 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:15,440 was set before him endured the cross despising the shame and is set down at the right hand 45 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:16,600 of the throne of God. 46 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,520 So who for the joy. 47 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,640 For the joy set before him. 48 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,160 So what was the joy. 49 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,880 What do you think that joy was. 50 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:30,600 The joy set before him was that the joy of him seeing the end. 51 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:36,720 Was it the joy of I mean when I say mean the end I mean eternity that he could see the 52 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:43,960 effects of his sacrifice the effects of his suffering that he could see his his becoming 53 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,800 glorified becoming like his father. 54 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:55,320 Was that the joy that was set before him or or was it that the this the the healing and 55 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:02,680 the the balm of Gilead and and the strength and mercy and grace that it provided me and 56 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,560 you and all of us. 57 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:11,360 What what was the joy that was set before him that gave him the motivation. 58 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,520 To endure the cross to endure it. 59 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:19,560 Yeah I don't know I think that joy it's probably a culmination of many things right. 60 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,480 But for me I think maybe that joy would come through our redemption. 61 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,760 How seeing us redeemed seeing us redeemed seeing us enabled seeing us compensated for 62 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,680 because of through the atonement through his atonement seeing those things but especially 63 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,400 the redemption which enables us to become heirs joined heirs with Christ in the kingdom 64 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,400 of God right. 65 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,720 I wish we could all all see that. 66 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,720 Yeah me too. 67 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:51,640 We you know see the joy that was set before him and see the joy that is set before us 68 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:52,640 in our life. 69 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,440 I you know I was feeling kind of sorry for myself actually this week you know with my 70 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:04,640 with my son who's who's messed up on his parole and probation then he's gone back to a halfway 71 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:12,760 house I mean he was headed back to prison but we were us talking to his the authorities 72 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,480 we were able to get him in a halfway house. 73 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:22,080 But I don't know why this time it's different because this is a battle we've been kind of 74 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:27,760 engaged in and a trial that's over several years now. 75 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:33,400 But for some reason it just it just really kind of put me in a hole. 76 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:38,360 I was trying to think about it and wondering why why is this time different and what is 77 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:46,880 this I'm actually feeling because I just I wasn't I just so kind of down about it maybe 78 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:53,280 even a little angry about it mostly because he wasn't being honest about it. 79 00:05:53,280 --> 00:06:00,320 But anyway a lot of different parts to this and I'll just get to the point I was trying 80 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:07,800 to verbalize what I was feeling to my sweetheart the other day as we were driving. 81 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:14,760 I'd really thought about this and I said so Chris I just need to verbalize how I'm feeling 82 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,920 and then please just listen. 83 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:25,240 I started out by saying you know I don't feel any condemnation for our son. 84 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,440 I don't feel any condemnation. 85 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,440 I'm his dad. 86 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,120 I'm not his judge. 87 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,880 So I there's no condemnation. 88 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:39,920 What I am feeling is complete devastation. 89 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:48,400 And you know as I was talking it through and I said I don't even feel desperation. 90 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,400 There's no despair. 91 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,760 I was actually thinking of scripture in Moroni I think it's 1022 that despair cometh because 92 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,400 of iniquity and I didn't want to be guilty of that. 93 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:07,280 I think really all desperation, despair is the result of sin and iniquity or the lack 94 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:14,400 of faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement or not receiving in our lives the grace and 95 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,040 mercy compensatory blessings that are available to us. 96 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,360 So I understand despair was not something that I wanted to feel either and I wasn't 97 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:29,200 really when I thought about it consciously but I was feeling devastation and then I said 98 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,000 and I'm feeling frustration. 99 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,360 I'm feeling devastation. 100 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,400 I mean we were we'd bought him a new car. 101 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,640 We were going to get him in a in a in a condo or buy him a trailer or we were going to do 102 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:49,040 all these things Scott to get him on his two feet again and help him to be independent 103 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:56,120 believing that he had surely learned his lesson and that he wouldn't do those things again 104 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:06,400 ever and then I just realized wow it's not he's not fixed and it was just devastating 105 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:14,640 to me and so I've just been thinking about this a lot this week about so I went through 106 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:25,240 this pity party kind of right and something of a you know feeling sorry for myself I guess 107 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:33,840 to some degree as well as frustration in his lack of accountability and lack of honesty 108 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:40,560 but I think it's important for us as individuals and as parents to understand the difference 109 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:43,600 between these terms. 110 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,760 Frustration is really not appropriate. 111 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:58,960 Devastation is I think part of life because of expectations and no condemnation no condemnation 112 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,840 and however lots of frustration. 113 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:02,840 Yeah. 114 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,280 So I don't know I've been trying to deal with all those emotions this week and then it then 115 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:14,960 it hit me you need to be you need to find joy in your life and I had a dear friend who 116 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:22,720 who was really down this week they have a youth a young man in their family a son who 117 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,760 was going to go on a mission he's had lots of problems right and he was going to go on 118 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:33,480 a mission and he yeah he was ready to go and it was some great miracle right and then this 119 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:42,040 week he I saw them and the father said he's not going to go and I could see just the father 120 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:51,600 was so devastated so down and and I was going through this too right but then it came into 121 00:09:51,600 --> 00:10:02,480 my mind Scott this amazing talk that given by Elder Rasband he gave us talk to seminaries 122 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:08,720 and institute teachers evening with the General Authority you can find it on a broadcast on 123 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:16,440 the church website and I think it was back in 2019 darn it I didn't put down the year 124 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,960 but it's an evening with General Authority Elder Rasband and he talks about the the challenges 125 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:28,160 of our youth and even suicide that he was on a commission appointed by President Nelson 126 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:35,920 to be on this state commission representing the church on how to help our youth who who 127 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:45,920 struggle with suicide and he talked about Jesus is always the answer Jesus is always 128 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:55,480 the answer and not just for our children Scott but when we feel devastated when we feel frustrated 129 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:01,080 it Jesus we we always we know Jesus is there for our children if they would just take advantage 130 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,440 of it right yeah that's right and then we're all depressed because of our children and 131 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,400 we're not feeling any joy in my life because of my children or because of others who I 132 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:16,800 love who are making bad choices and so they're killing my joy in my life circumstances in 133 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:22,840 my life and we should all we should all remember but it's hard to remember when you're so close 134 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:29,240 to it you know and this this good friend of mine was was a bishop and he knows and I turned 135 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:35,320 to him I said so you need to read this talk Jesus is the answer and I said and it's not 136 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:40,920 just for your son you need to read the talk because Jesus is the answer for what you're 137 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:48,000 feeling right now and then it hit me that that was really for me and since I have thought 138 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,920 about the atonement of Jesus Christ more the latter half of the week than I did the first 139 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:59,440 half of the week my prayers are more meaningful I feel more joy I feel more spirit my spirits 140 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:06,800 are being more lifted I just we just have to really remember and exercise our faith 141 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:16,060 in that Scott that because of the joy set before him and we need to exercise that in 142 00:12:16,060 --> 00:12:24,080 our lives as well so find joy in your life and understand the difference between desperation 143 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:31,080 and devastation and condemnation and frustration so let's take a second first off that's a 144 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:36,720 great talk Jesus Christ is the answer that's a February of 2019 you can find that just 145 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:43,480 Google it or go to the church website great great broadcast yeah so let's talk just a 146 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:52,360 second Dave what is devastation look like how does that feel to you when you say I recognize 147 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:58,160 I'm devastated I want to know what does that mean it's it kind of puts you in a hole just 148 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:05,800 a feeling then it's just it's just a cloudy like foreboding feeling yeah I didn't feel 149 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:12,640 like I was in darkness but I felt like I was in a fog yeah and I was just oh man you lose 150 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:18,440 some hope really yeah you know you're I didn't I don't think I lost complete hope I think 151 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:29,720 that's desperation yeah but but I lost some hope and you just really feel this sadness 152 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:36,120 yes yeah yeah I and there's a reason I ask that you know because of my involvement in 153 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:42,760 recovery groups for the last 24 years helping myself not others I don't want anybody to 154 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:47,840 misunderstand I'm going there for me I'm not a professional counselor or anything like 155 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:54,260 that I'm a professional drinker who hasn't drank since 1998 because of that but I go 156 00:13:54,260 --> 00:14:00,440 there and I and I see even though you're sponsoring yeah what eight guys yeah something like that 157 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:07,000 and you know but I still go I even do that for me I don't sponsor I mean I do for them 158 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,360 but it's my program you know I'm getting a little tiny bit off track here but I do need 159 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,000 to clarify that when I sponsor somebody that's me working my program that's not me working 160 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,720 their service the joy set before you step 12 in Alcoholics Anonymous is really an emphasis 161 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:29,040 on helping others right yeah but it's my step 12 it's not their step 12 it's my step 12 162 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:36,720 that I'm doing but as I do this I hear desperation I see desperation and I hear devastation and 163 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:44,820 I see devastation and in to me is I'm working and as I'm observing and as you know not just 164 00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:51,120 in my own life but observing these concepts and phenomenon and other people's lives the 165 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:59,760 difference to me between those two is devastation there is still hope if it's just this devastation 166 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,720 you know if you can combine that that's what I've concluded this yeah if you can if you 167 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:11,360 can combine that devastation with and that's why you know when when we work the 12 steps 168 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,880 about Alcoholics Anonymous that's why the first step is is just an admission that I can't 169 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,880 right came to I am not I'm powerless over alcohol my life's become a manageable and 170 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,280 the second one is is I come to believe that there's somebody who can yeah Jesus Christ 171 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,720 that's what this whole podcast is about for me and for many other Christian alcoholics 172 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,920 across the world that's what it is and then the third one is is we turn our will in our 173 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:41,800 life over to the care of God as we understand him which is what that is then those devastations 174 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:48,040 have hope desperation not much but we do consider often desperation is one of the four horsemen 175 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:54,980 in Alcoholics Anonymous which can through the right lens also be a gift can also be 176 00:15:54,980 --> 00:16:00,120 a gift because you know we we often refer to it as the gift of desperation and they 177 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:06,320 and the key to understanding the gift of desperation and how that can become a gift is really and 178 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:13,880 will transition now into our topic but it's really it really pivots on the success behind 179 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:19,200 that if that can be a gift or not really pivots on beginning to see ourselves for who we really 180 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:26,480 are well and and rely not on our own strength or the arm of the flesh but rely wholly on 181 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:35,320 the merits of he who is mighty to save correct well I I have learned in the past Scott with 182 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:42,160 all that I've been through with with being a dad and and having children which we'll 183 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,800 all have in this world just well and you have other experiences that go beyond that too 184 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,600 because of your service and leadership positions in the yeah absolutely I've seen it so much 185 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:58,240 in the church and in church councils and other other means and other other friends and loved 186 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:08,480 ones but anyway I've just come to the conclusion really that that I know from experience that 187 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:15,760 you can have joy in sorrow if you're focused on Jesus Christ that's right and you can even 188 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:23,800 have peace in tribulation and turmoil if you're focused on Jesus Christ you can even have 189 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:32,640 peace in devastation Dave well that's what I forgot yeah well I I just you know we're 190 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:39,360 just all sinners helping sinners here right and the fall and all of that kind of got the 191 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:48,620 best of me the fall of others and my own personal fall and I just I do think it's okay to feel 192 00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:54,040 devastation that's nice right it's natural and it's motivating well like or and it can 193 00:17:54,040 --> 00:18:01,400 be motivated without condemnation so I just thought it was kind of interesting for me 194 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:10,120 that as I communicated that to my sweetheart what I kind of learned from all of that and 195 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:16,120 I don't want to forget what I've learned what a gift what a gift sometimes our greatest 196 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:22,240 gifts come through work through things that may be a little uncomfortable through you 197 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,280 know what I mean it well for sure the greatest lessons we'll ever learn in this life come 198 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:32,720 to us from trials and tribulations and that's how we that's how we grow and that's how we 199 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,160 progress and that's just part of mortality right yeah well and it's a testament to that 200 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,560 we're all human we're all mortal you've been teaching the atonement of Jesus Christ and 201 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,280 the power from it for over 30 years you've lived it and I've been a witness to you living 202 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:52,240 it for your whole life or at least my whole life and you know we just never quite arrive 203 00:18:52,240 --> 00:19:02,520 in this life do we even the even the prophets yeah right can for a moment have a little 204 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:11,240 bit of a forgetting and I love that I actually we don't believe anybody's infallible in this 205 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:19,920 life and everybody church leaders and others and I guess everybody except the Savior himself 206 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:27,100 right you know yeah probably have had a pity party in their life and Scott the greatest 207 00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:33,640 lessons we learned in our pre mortality were the result of adversity yeah the war in heaven 208 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:39,840 that's right that's what we talked about last week that adversity there and how it affected 209 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:47,200 us and how we chose to follow him we began to establish our identity as sons of and daughters 210 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:55,600 of Christ even in pre in our pre mortal life we began to commit to looking for and searching 211 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:01,220 out to remembrance of our testimony which we talked about last week we all of these 212 00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:07,920 things that are just part of the grand plan of happiness David that you know that makes 213 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:14,560 that makes compensation and makes room for our pity parties that makes room for our devastation 214 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:20,400 and all the other trials that we feel think how sad that must have been for us and the 215 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:28,800 tears that must have been shed in heaven when one third of the host of heaven our spirit 216 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:36,360 brothers and sisters God's spirit sons and daughters one third of them who rejected him 217 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:46,520 as their father and followed an evil person who wanted to overthrow God eventually I think 218 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,760 that was I don't know that that he actually came out and said that but I believe in his 219 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:58,400 heart of hearts that was his motive and intent was to overthrow the plan of God thus overthrowing 220 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,200 God himself and him replacing him as the God of the universe now even though that was a 221 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:11,280 philosophical impossibility I believe that Satan who was a liar from the beginning father 222 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,840 of all eyes that he you know and this is what happens right when you when you lie enough 223 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:22,960 you end up believing your lies and I believe he believed he could do it even though it 224 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:30,040 was all a lie everything about him was a lie but he was so persuasive and one third of 225 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,920 the host followed him and I as I thought over the years Scott about how could how why would 226 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:44,240 one third follow him well other than his his what's his flattery which he must have used 227 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,040 there because he we know he uses it here his deception which he used there because we know 228 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:56,080 he uses it here that his his ability to get others to follow him must have been based 229 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:04,880 to some degree upon the fears that maybe some people had there that some had allowed fear 230 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,640 to enter their hearts because they wondered if they could really make it in mortality 231 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,400 they knew it was going to be hard we must have had a glimpse of some of our adversities 232 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:24,400 and tribulations and the the the war that would actually be continued here up on earth 233 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:30,920 and we must have had some fears and doubts perhaps over there and those who he influenced 234 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:37,520 the most were those who had the most fear and doubt and he told this whether it was 235 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,160 about force and coercion and keeping commandments maybe there was a group that believed that 236 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,520 and he knew they would believe that and they would like that and that's what he did I don't 237 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:53,360 know because I hear that word taught often in the church but I prefer to believe that 238 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:59,160 he persuaded most people over there in the pre-mortal existence to follow him because 239 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:06,600 he told them that they didn't need a savior they didn't need a redeemer there wouldn't 240 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:13,760 be any commandments there would be no accountability they could do anything they wanted short of 241 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:21,760 a mortal free for all the church of what's happening now yeah do your own thing and I'll 242 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:32,420 save you yeah and I'll get the glory and others looked at that as a very appealing opportunity 243 00:23:32,420 --> 00:23:40,000 and so they followed him that he made it look easy he made it look like that would be the 244 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:47,240 easy road and it seems like to me most of his temptations and the sins and addictions 245 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:53,540 here are based upon that same lie so anyway that war in heaven continues and we talked 246 00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:59,680 a little bit about that and how we overcame him there through the blood of the lamb the 247 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:05,120 atonement of Jesus Christ our Savior through the word of their testimony and they love 248 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:11,920 not their lives under the death that's Revelation chapter 12 verse 11 and and if we're going 249 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:18,120 to overcome him here the way we overcame him there if we're going to be victorious in this 250 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:26,640 war that continues in mortality that all started in pre-mortal existence then we need to focus 251 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,440 on those three things and I think the first one's the most important actually is through 252 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:38,240 the blood of the lamb through the word of our testimony and then to be so committed 253 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:45,280 that for the joy that set before us that we're willing to go to the wall or even die for 254 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:53,200 what we know to be true if we'll do that we can flourish in this life Scott the pre-moral 255 00:24:53,200 --> 00:25:01,280 existence is is real to me and I think it's such an important part of our identity and 256 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:09,080 I had an experience some time ago with that giving a patriarchal blessing to a young woman 257 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:17,120 but before I jump into that story any thoughts yeah I do you mentioned that you know in the 258 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:24,400 in the war in heaven it was a philosophical impossibility what Satan was proposing and 259 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,000 under religious and a spiritual impossibility and all those other things it was an impossibility 260 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:37,200 well the the same tactic he uses today and he's getting a second chance at some of us 261 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:44,200 you know we were all there and you know some of us and it and I get I get sick when I think 262 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:50,440 about I wonder if any of my pre-mortal friends went the other way I you know and it's silly 263 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,920 to think about that but it's a realistic it's a I think about those things you know I wonder 264 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,960 if I had friends and if I did did they know me and if I did are they still trying to get 265 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:05,240 me to come their way you know and and and I think that that philosophical impossibility 266 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:11,640 that religious that that spiritual impossibility that we were that was that was propagated 267 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,820 and perpetuated there is being perpetuated here today in mortality as well and because 268 00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:22,040 of the fall that is allowed to continue to take place we're going to get into the fall 269 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:27,840 and its effects in a in a upcoming episode and we'll talk about that in in more detail 270 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:34,480 later but that that philosophical impossibility that religious and spiritual impossibility 271 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,720 that so many of our brothers and sisters bought into their still being bought into today it 272 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:46,240 is yeah and it's just all lie yeah and you know I think Alma kind of said this right 273 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:53,600 in Alma chapter 42 verse 10 there's there's no there's no happiness and wickedness you 274 00:26:53,600 --> 00:27:00,800 can't sin and be happy you can't do wrong and feel right you you will never find joy 275 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:09,320 true joy in in the pleasures of sin and it's just so important I think that we distinguish 276 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:19,280 between joy and pleasure in this life and Satan's just so smooth so sophisticated on 277 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:26,120 trying to get us to to find pleasure comfort and ease you know it's the eat drink and be 278 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:32,040 merry with no responsibility and yeah God will beat us with abuse drives and there's 279 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,280 no big deal and we really talked a lot about it you know last week I believe or maybe it 280 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,720 was the week before when we talked about an intentional life but either way you know there's 281 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,320 so much spiritual relativity now that you know is and I think that's what I think that's 282 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:53,480 an example of a philosophical religious spiritual impossibility yeah anyway yeah I wanted to 283 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,720 I just wanted to touch on that because I felt like those were things that stood out to me 284 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,840 and I just wanted to kind of emphasize that further but I'm anxious to hear about your 285 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:09,000 story well identity as we talked about last week I think determines eternity and it's 286 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:15,000 such an important part of the plan of redemption to know who we are to know that we are sons 287 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:23,840 and daughters of God and that he loves us just a thousand thousand times a thousand 288 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:33,400 more than mortal parents good mortal parents can love their children here I mean God is 289 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:44,000 he is intentional and intense in his love for us I know that and I know it all started 290 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:52,040 in the pre-mortal existence and everything that he's done to carry out the plan of redemption 291 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:59,920 even the plot the whole plan of redemption itself is is is done and carried out because 292 00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:08,400 of his love for us it's amazing the giving the gift of his son you know as John wrote 293 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:19,880 it so eloquently in John 3 16 for God so loved the world so loved the world each of us that 294 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:30,560 he gave his only begotten son sacrificed him that whosoever believed in him would have 295 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:38,440 everlasting life who they would not perish and they would have everlasting life anyway 296 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:45,120 I am really thankful for that plan of redemption and to know who we are and that we lived with 297 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:52,560 him and that we experienced what the atonement of Jesus Christ and the love of God even in 298 00:29:52,560 --> 00:30:00,480 the pre-mortal existence I think just really an important part to strengthen us here that 299 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:06,720 we that we fought this war in heaven and that we were warriors and defenders of the faith 300 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,440 I've used that term quite a bit in some patriarchal blessings I've given I gave a blessing not 301 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:19,040 very long ago and told this young woman that she was an organizer in the pre-mortal existence 302 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:25,520 and that she should or be an organizer here in righteousness and organize individuals 303 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:35,240 here to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ but this is early on when many years ago when 304 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,640 I was first called to be a patriarch fairly early within the first year or two I had a 305 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,760 young woman call me up one Sunday afternoon she said I need to schedule get a patriarchal 306 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:52,480 blessing and she sounded a little bit older so I was just asking about her and wanting 307 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:58,040 to get to know her a little bit and in our phone interview and she told me explained 308 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:07,920 to me that she had not been church in 16 years that she had had two children out of wedlock 309 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:13,440 after leaving the church it's the age of 16 and that one of her children was now eight 310 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:22,280 years old she wanted to get her baptized and so she went back to church and she this young 311 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:30,280 woman was 32 years old and she said I was so I went to church today took my two daughters 312 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:36,080 for the first time and the bishop came down and talked to me I told her that I wanted 313 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,240 to get my little girl baptized and he called me in the office and in our conversation he 314 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,160 said have you received your have you ever received a patriarchal blessing and she said 315 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:53,040 no and he said well I think you should get one and after visiting with her he gave her 316 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,840 a recommend to get a patriarchal blessing and she calls me and so we schedule it a few 317 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:08,880 weeks out and the day arrived and she came and I wasn't shocked but when I opened the 318 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:17,760 door there stood this beautiful young woman covered with tattoos and piercings wearing 319 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:25,960 her hair in dreadlocks and I invited her in and we went into my office and we talked some 320 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:35,160 more and and I felt impressed that today was the day that God wanted to give her a blessing 321 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:44,280 and felt was filled with God's love for her as soon as I put my hands on her head and 322 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:52,400 this doesn't always happen Scott it's happened a few other times but not to the same detail 323 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:59,200 as this as this one I could see her in her pre-mortal existence as a young as a young 324 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:12,080 girl dressed in a white dress playing she was playing in the pre-mortal existence and 325 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:18,920 just running around playing and I could I could see her characteristics and get a glimpse 326 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:27,880 of her personality there and then I became aware off to the off to the side her heavenly 327 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:40,880 parents looking upon her and smiling then all of this vision came to me as I am in the 328 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:48,880 beginning of her patriarchal blessing and I'm trying to describe it and I keep using 329 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:58,360 the word delight how her heavenly parents delighted in her in her pre-mortal existence 330 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:06,520 and then at one point I just really felt impressed that God had a message for her and I had to 331 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:16,760 say it in this way and I never said it since that I had never said it before and I said 332 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:26,680 Heavenly Father wants you to know that you are one of his favorites and that he has never 333 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:38,520 been mad at you and at that point her head just fell into her lap I mean my my hands 334 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:47,800 were suspended in midair because she she was overcome by the spirit and she just fell into 335 00:34:47,800 --> 00:35:01,400 a heap and just wept and I remember thinking oh oh the love of God for his children we 336 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:10,560 were both overcome by that the feeling of his love for his children and I remember thinking 337 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:18,600 even Scott in those few moments you know when she was weeping I remember thinking wow if 338 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:25,480 he's never been mad at her he's probably never been mad at me if he hasn't been mad at her 339 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:31,360 he's probably never been I know he hasn't been mad at my wife I he hasn't been mad at 340 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:42,400 any of my kids and I just this this vision and this experience gave me a taste of the 341 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:53,680 love and the character of God how fiercely he loves his children in all their different 342 00:35:53,680 --> 00:36:02,280 conditions and circumstances and anyway I was thinking all of those thoughts in those 343 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:08,480 few moments of silence and she sat back up and the blessing continued and it was a beautiful 344 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:16,520 blessing and I know her I don't know where she is now but I know that she will never 345 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:26,800 forget what we both shared and felt that day and on a sunny Sunday afternoon many years 346 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:27,800 ago. 347 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:34,800 What a great experience for you and her right and actually you know for all of us because 348 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:44,280 I think that's not a uncommon worry for those of us who have sinned which includes all of 349 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:51,920 us I know some of us feel like maybe we have to a greater degree than others and find it 350 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,560 kind of difficult to understand or believe that how can I be one of his favorites and 351 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:03,040 how could he not be mad at me I mean I have literally intentionally even in some cases 352 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:10,840 you know been so disobedient and yeah what a great experience I'm glad you had that so 353 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,560 that the truth is we're all his favorites yeah and I think the truth is Scott that he's 354 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:21,720 never been mad at us individually I've come to the conclusion personally as I read and 355 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:26,920 understand the scriptures that the divine wrath of God which we read about in the scriptures 356 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,840 especially the Old Testament and other places the divine wrath of God or sometimes even 357 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:43,280 maybe described as God's anger is never about an individual or one of his children it's 358 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:54,880 about a whole society or a whole large group of people who are not taking care of his children 359 00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:02,800 the divine wrath of God is totally out of love for his children when when the earth 360 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:11,100 became so wicked that he had destroyed it by a flood it was it was it wasn't because 361 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:17,720 he was mad at them or lost control it was because he couldn't take away their agency 362 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:25,720 and they had become so wicked that children born on the earth in those days never would 363 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:34,040 have a shot idolatry had completely covered the earth and they had become so wicked in 364 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:43,560 their human children sacrifice and abuse that God cannot send children to this earth without 365 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:53,000 them being hurt that's when his anger or divine wrath takes over is because or out of the 366 00:38:53,000 --> 00:39:00,960 love for his children and when you understand that that characteristic of God like we talked 367 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:08,040 about last time when you comprehend when you begin to comprehend the character of God you 368 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:14,120 should begin to comprehend yourself right when you when you understand how fiercely 369 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:22,240 he loves you that should tell you something about who you are as a child of God so I just 370 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:29,240 think is it really important that we all of us try to understand you know his character 371 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:37,880 and how much he loves us I think that oftentimes it's easy for individuals myself included often 372 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:45,360 to see God's love and other people to have somebody for example come to me and has you 373 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:51,680 know just had a horrible life their life has been so full of conditions that has been so 374 00:39:51,680 --> 00:40:00,120 stacked against them abuse and all kinds of other things and yet they they can as we start 375 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,800 talking about this these kinds of things in recovery because it's important for us to 376 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,560 understand God and have that concept otherwise that's third step where we turn our will in 377 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,960 our life over them him will be incomplete if we don't understand him at least a little 378 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,560 bit properly but it's so easy for us to see for me in the past and sometimes still how 379 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,760 much God loves you or how much God would even though even though I know all this garbage 380 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:32,800 about you it's easy for me oftentimes to see how much God loves you but Satan still is 381 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,280 working that you know working user Scott the accuser is accusing me and so I can see it 382 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:45,760 in you so to speak but it becomes so so much more difficult sometimes Dave for me to see 383 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:52,520 it in me why would you why is that I know it's so it's so sad I've heard individuals 384 00:40:52,520 --> 00:41:00,600 in the church one who was served in a presidency of Relief Society years ago when I was in 385 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:14,320 a bishopric and you know and and this sweet woman said to my wife and I I have never felt 386 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:25,680 the love of God I that just it just it really hit me hard that some people for whatever 387 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:32,080 reason and I don't know Scott the I think it gets kind of complicated because I think 388 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:41,360 sometimes out of abuse manipulation relationships other relationships they have with their father 389 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:47,360 or their husband or men in general or I can get kind of complicated it can and there's 390 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,180 about why people don't feel the love God I had a friend in Japan who would always call 391 00:41:52,180 --> 00:41:57,040 me up and say now tell me again how much God loves me because he was raised by a Shinto 392 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:07,880 father who was so authoritative and so manipulative that he he had kind of what's the psychological 393 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:14,480 term that that he had kind of transplanted his feelings for his father earthly father 394 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:21,800 towards his heavenly father and it was really hard for him to see a father as one who was 395 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:28,120 kind and loving and compassionate towards him as a son and I think because of the fall 396 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,960 of Adam and Eve that we all maybe have a tendency to have that we are cut off but because of 397 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:38,560 the spiritual death were cut off from his presence and a remembering is in our future 398 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,860 hopefully if we don't have that remembering in our future then we unfortunately will live 399 00:42:43,860 --> 00:42:50,040 a life that is untethered in without direction which will bring nothing but devastation like 400 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:55,840 we talked about earlier to us that's right Scott and the accuser of our brethren that 401 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:02,920 amazing title given to Satan by John in the book of Revelation you know Satan the accuser 402 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:08,260 is always telling accusing us God doesn't love you you're not worthy of his love you'll 403 00:43:08,260 --> 00:43:14,280 never be worthy of his love who do you think you are and he always accuses us yeah and 404 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,880 you know and for some of us you know this is so this is where for me this is where I 405 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:26,160 really struggle with the accuser often still is if they only knew if those that you serve 406 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:32,880 really knew about you or or you know you're I'm called to a position I wonder if my stake 407 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:39,040 president really knows about me I wonder we've all had those yeah yeah yeah I mean I'll be 408 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,840 going I'm going to the temple this afternoon it's our work conference this week and we've 409 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,400 all committed as a war council to do that but there will be time and I go out of town 410 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,400 this weekend so I won't be able to attend with the rest of them but there will be times 411 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:56,200 when I'm sitting in the temple David and and I can hear the accuser when I'm sitting in 412 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,440 the temple Scott you don't belong here yeah sometimes you carry those thoughts in there 413 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:09,720 with you yeah yeah it's so so hard and sad because of the experiences that we have here 414 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:16,560 in mortality all of us have our own little secrets right our own dirty secrets that we 415 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:24,320 put in the closet yeah and and they keep us a little bit sad ours ours our sins yeah often 416 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:30,480 we shame ourselves over and over and over again we'll talk later in this course since 417 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,400 this is a course on repentance and forgiveness I I'm anxious to have that discussion the 418 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:43,720 difference between guilt godly sorrow and guilt and shame you know shame is from Satan 419 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:49,040 and guilt is from God and guilt's positive and shame is negative but it's amazing how 420 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:55,600 he shames us yeah and keeps us from feeling the love of God well furthermore it's amazing 421 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:01,360 how we're we allow that to take place in ourselves even with our testimonies even with the knowledge 422 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:08,120 that we do have you know yeah and he any masks our identity Scott I mean he is the great 423 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:14,600 we we have a problem in this country in the world as far as identity theft it's a major 424 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:23,520 problem right now right and he's the master thief of identity and if he can get us to 425 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:31,320 not understand who we are meaning including meaning and including our pre-mortal existence 426 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:38,080 who we were there and how we defeated him there and how fierce we were there on accepting 427 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:44,880 and following and defending the plan of redemption and our savior and redeemer if he can get us 428 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:54,440 to to never see that to never believe that and to just go based upon the fallen mortal 429 00:45:54,440 --> 00:46:00,000 experiences we have here then he's already stolen our identity it's just so important 430 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:07,720 that we try to understand who we were in the pre-mortal existence and how valiant and true 431 00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:15,320 and noble and faithful we were there I hadn't planned to talk about this but I read an article 432 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:21,200 this morning I sent you a copy of it to you know in 1990 something I can't quote exactly 433 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:29,320 but in 1990 something that opiate opioid pandemic started and white man that's this cross section 434 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,800 I'm not I'm not differentiating but that was the article the cross section that was studied 435 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:41,560 was white men between the ages of 45 and 65 I believe and what we have seen happen is 436 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:49,200 an increase in what they call deaths of desperation and this is what's the source this was from 437 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:57,600 so I got this from market watch which is I it's market watch I had to do some financial 438 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,840 research this morning for a thing I had to do but then this is based on a study yeah 439 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,120 a study this is just reporting on that study and and and what they have found you know 440 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,960 to kind of summarize their summarizing but what I'll do is even further summarize but 441 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:18,200 what what it boils down to is we have seen an exit from religion or in a conscientious 442 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:24,880 effort to separate ourselves from anything godlike including religion and things of that 443 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,680 nature and since that has happened to see they they they noticed that during this period 444 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:35,920 of time there was an increase in mortality of that cross section white men 45 to 65 I 445 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:42,360 believe and but what they went back and further studied is because this phenomenon that we 446 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,720 are experiencing now with people leaving religion like crazy we're calling it the great exit 447 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:54,440 right I mean people are leaving religion completely and we see it a lot in in our church we do 448 00:47:54,440 --> 00:48:03,560 but it's not just our church but I mean I read the reports too and and though not just 449 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,680 relieving religion yeah but leaving behind their belief in God yeah that and that's it 450 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,040 that's the main thing that's the main thing is you know that their belief in God the religion 451 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:20,080 helps us create a relationship with God but a belief in God it just at the core is missing 452 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:26,160 and what they have found is is those deaths that have been spiking and I can't tell you 453 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:32,080 exactly the percentage increase but it's devastating the percentage increase in what we call deaths 454 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:37,880 of desperation and so a death of desperation is a suicide it's a death that's been propagated 455 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:44,840 because of a an addiction you know alcoholism abuse all of those things you know spousal 456 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:52,200 abuse all desperation deaths of desperation well they've gone up since we've noticed or 457 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:58,160 since they've noticed in this paper the exit from religion and so as men in that cross 458 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:05,480 section we're exiting religion exiting a relationship with God so to speak their the mortality rate 459 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:13,360 in what we call deaths of desperation we're going up and Satan laughs yeah like he does 460 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:20,640 in Moses yeah right we read in Moses yeah that he when when the world is being destroyed 461 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:28,600 by a flood yeah Satan's got a chain in his hand and he laughs yeah but he doesn't win 462 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:36,120 Scott no he can win now he doesn't know that because he's such a liar that he he somehow 463 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,760 again believes he can pull it off here even though he failed there and he's gonna fail 464 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:50,000 here that even all of those who are involved in deaths of desperation they're gonna they're 465 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:56,080 redeemed they're redeemed they're gonna be resurrected they're gonna have the opportunity 466 00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:02,280 to repent in the spirit world they're gonna have experiences there that it's not over 467 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:10,520 it's not over Scott until it's over and when Jesus Christ said my work is not over until 468 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:17,480 I have saved all of God's children Wow you know that's that's a quote I don't have it 469 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:24,520 right here in front of me but that's a quote from Joseph F Smith who was who I loved the 470 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:33,320 story told by Boyd K Packer quoting Harold B Lee quoting Joseph F Smith and this is the 471 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:39,520 story Boyd K Packer said he was a new general authority he was with Harold B Lee who wasn't 472 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,760 at the time president of the church but was an apostle training Boyd K Packer the new 473 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:50,280 newest general authority and there they've gone to visit some stakes and they're in a 474 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,800 motel room and Boyd K Packer says his phone rings and he answers the phone and it's Elder 475 00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:02,720 Elder Lee Harold B Lee and Elder Lee says Boyd Boyd come in come over here come over 476 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:10,960 to my room and so Boyd goes over to his room and he described Elder Harold B Lee in his 477 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:21,960 in his robe he's wearing this big night robe and he says listen to this Boyd listen and 478 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:28,240 Harold B Lee reads from Gospel Doctrine the book which is a compilation of all of Joseph 479 00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:37,000 F Smith's writings and teachings and he quotes that amazing quote which is one of my favorite 480 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:46,000 that Jesus's work will not be finished until all of God's children are saved now Scott 481 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,800 I don't know what that means and I know that even those in the T. Luscious Kingdom are 482 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:58,160 saved even they get some glory those who go to outer darkness I wouldn't consider their 483 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:03,960 saved but they they are saved from death they are redeemed from death and who knows what 484 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:11,040 will be their end we don't really know Scott I once asked the brother Matthews who wrote 485 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:17,440 the Bible dictionary what's the end result of sons of perdition and he quoted the scripture 486 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:25,080 in Doctrine and Covenants section 29 why don't you turn there and we should read this because 487 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:31,800 he is section 29 is actually these verses are describing the sons of perdition then he said 488 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,840 well this is this is what the all the Lord has said about it I mean we do we really don't 489 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:45,160 know you know the the final judgment or when it's or when it is all going to be over we 490 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:57,160 don't really know and so this is verse 29 or sorry section 29 verse 28 28 yeah yeah 491 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:01,600 it says wherefore I will say unto them and that's those who go to outer darkness right 492 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:08,720 okay wherefore I will say unto them depart from me you cursed it you curse it into everlasting 493 00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:14,760 fire prepared for the devil and his angels and now behold I say unto you never at any 494 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:22,280 time have I declared from mine own mouth that they should return for where I am they cannot 495 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:28,880 come for they have no power okay so they have no power they keep they keep he says I have 496 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:34,040 never I've never declared from my mouth that they should return but he doesn't say that 497 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:41,900 they shouldn't either right and then look at verse 30 but remember that all my judgments 498 00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:49,360 are not given unto man there you go and as that was brother Matthew's answer to me yeah 499 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:56,920 David he said the Lord has not given us all his judgments for obviously a wise purpose 500 00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:04,000 he has not told us everything we don't know the whole story we don't know really how it 501 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:12,280 ends and I just I just find hope in that that that Jesus Christ is is not going to be finished 502 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:18,400 with his work until all the children of men all of God's sons and daughters have had every 503 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:26,720 opportunity every possible chance of turning back to him as their father that's how much 504 00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:34,200 God loves his children Scott that's and he is so intentional about that sending his son 505 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,840 sending the gospel I think sometimes people are born in this world who don't enjoy all 506 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:43,560 the blessings of the gospel because God loves them and he doesn't want to hold them to a 507 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:50,180 higher level of accountability everything that God does for his children is because 508 00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:57,640 he loves them and that that leads us to that amazing scripture in 2nd Nephi Scott chapter 509 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:09,480 28 I believe I this is always my go-to scripture that so many things that we don't understand 510 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:17,320 even sometimes policies and practices in the in the church and and events world events 511 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:23,800 and world scripture so many difficult questions that we can't answer and yet I think that 512 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:31,320 this this scripture answers it so in in 2nd Nephi chapter 26 verse 24 kind of my go-to 513 00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:38,040 scripture to answer some of my own questions and sometimes problems and questions of others 514 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:45,960 and there are so many circumstances and situations that we don't know why it's that way but here's 515 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:53,960 here's the principle and the pattern and the absolute truth so 2nd Nephi 26 verse 24 516 00:55:53,960 --> 00:56:01,000 he doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world for he loveth the world even 517 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:08,360 that he layeth down his own life that he may draw all men unto him wherefore he commandeth 518 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,720 none that they shall not partake of his salvation 519 00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:19,320 think of that yeah that's uh quite remarkable think of that Scott yeah quite remarkable 520 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:31,320 God doesn't do anything nothing nothing save it be for the benefit of Scott Durfee David 521 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:45,480 Durfee my children your children the world because he loved he loves us we sure get spiritual 522 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:50,960 amnesia don't we we talked about that last week a little bit remember right if we could 523 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:56,480 just remember who we are if we could just not take ourselves so doggone serious you 524 00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:01,600 know now Golic's anonymous we have a rule rule number 64 don't take yourself so darn 525 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:07,000 serious you know and I think that that's um I think that's important for us I I you know 526 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:11,560 you started this podcast today talking about some feelings that you had been having about 527 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:19,160 Isaac uh your son yeah and you used the word devastation and I think we can all to some 528 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:26,880 level or some degree relate to that and it occurs to me David that oftentimes we feel 529 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:32,240 that in our lives not because necessarily we sometimes do because of what's happening 530 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,520 in our own lives but the devastation that a parent feels because of what's happening 531 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:42,240 in a child's life is pretty much undescribable and it's because of love I wonder if when 532 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:50,240 we fully embrace the atonement of Jesus Christ and all that it is I and we begin to work 533 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:56,720 it in our own lives first and as an example another thing that I learn in alcoholics anonymous 534 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:03,560 is so important for me is that we um put principles before personalities you know so I'm not worried 535 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:11,360 so much about learning um or or the personalities or what's happening with other people so much 536 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:16,260 as what's happening in my own life you know and if I apply the principles of the atonement 537 00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:24,400 of Jesus Christ in my own life then the devastation that I I I believe that I'm perceiving among 538 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:29,160 his children which may include my own children uh you know it might be just a little bit 539 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:38,200 differently viewed yeah and I'm grateful for that today yeah well um we are sons and daughters 540 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:47,400 of God Scott and he loved us so much that he gave us a plan not only a general plan 541 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:53,560 of happiness or the great plan of happiness or the plan of salvation or the plan of redemption 542 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:58,520 or the plan of mercy but he gave you a plan he gave me a plan all of his children have 543 00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:06,000 a plan and the atonement of Jesus Christ I mean that's the objective of this course the 544 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:14,320 objective of this course is how can we draw on the power of Jesus Christ through his redeeming 545 00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:24,640 blood his entire plan was based upon that event we were able to conquer Satan in the 546 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:30,880 pre-mortal existence through the blood of the lamb we will conquer him here in this 547 00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:38,080 life because of the blood of the lamb and it will go on and on in infinite atonement 548 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:49,160 but what's really motivating and the power behind all of this is God so loved the world 549 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:57,280 he gave his only begotten son think of it I mean and and the great prototype in the 550 00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:06,440 scriptures is right Abraham Abraham when he was asked to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice 551 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:13,520 I mean I think anybody who reads those chapters in Genesis they have father kind of puts themselves 552 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,720 or a mother I think Sarah knew about that by the way and I I think Sarah went along 553 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:22,480 with that and I did believe mother in heaven went along with all of this plan of course 554 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:29,760 that their firstborn in the spirit world he who was more intelligent than them all Jesus 555 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:38,280 Christ they would sacrifice him on an altar for us for us for all of the rest of us individually 556 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:44,880 infinitely and intimately for us right and the sacrifice was done for us regardless of 557 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:52,820 what and who we are absolutely but knowing who we are and knowing our worth that begins 558 01:00:52,820 --> 01:00:58,400 to qualify us so we all know this scripture in the doctrine covenant section 18 verse 559 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:06,720 10 Scott if if you want to just just turn there and it says for the worth of souls is 560 01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:13,560 great in the sight of God we all know that scripture for the worth of souls is great 561 01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:20,320 in the sight of God but nobody everybody can quote I think that or we are we're all aware 562 01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:26,680 of that but what does verse 11 say Scott for behold the Lord your Redeemer suffered death 563 01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:32,600 in the flesh wherefore he suffered the pain of all men that all men might repent and come 564 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:43,520 unto him so what's our worth it's immeasurable because a God gave his life for you and he 565 01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:52,400 gave his life for me my life was worth the life of a God the worth of souls is great 566 01:01:52,400 --> 01:02:02,560 because he was willing to sacrifice and die and give his life for me when we begin to 567 01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:12,280 understand that part of our identity and our infinite worth it it really changes everything 568 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:23,880 that's that's the motivation I think the the power that we need to be able to continue 569 01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:32,560 to to love him because we know he loved us first and to follow him and to repent and 570 01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:39,120 to strive to keep his commandments which I hope we can all do and it all boils down to 571 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:47,000 our identity our identity will determine our eternity you know we've we have so many tools 572 01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,880 in front of us and I really hesitate to use the word tools but I don't know what else 573 01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:58,880 to use in place of that because you know we have the we have the the spirit that you know 574 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,960 as we partake of the sacrament and we renew covenants and we're going to talk about so 575 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,560 important not we're going to not talk about not just his name but how do we take his name 576 01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,600 upon us how do we enter those covenant relationships and what all does that entail and what does 577 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:17,400 that mean and as we begin to build gift on gift and precept on precept and and mercy 578 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:25,840 on mercy and merit his merit on merit not our own man I think that it's difficult once 579 01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:30,880 we begin to understand those things and really take them in and be honest about a relationship 580 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:36,200 with those ideas it's difficult for us to look in the mirror and see anything but you 581 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:43,080 know absolute divinity yeah and and going to the house of the Lord going to the house 582 01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:49,000 of the Lord I think the great motivation for me when I go to the house of the Lord is I 583 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:54,440 get to hear the voice of God right I hear the voice of the son I get a glimpse into 584 01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:59,860 their love for me that they were willing to send Adam and Eve down here and that Adam 585 01:03:59,860 --> 01:04:05,400 and Eve were willing to sacrifice that they were willing to leave the garden for me so 586 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:10,880 that we could experience mortality so that we could experience the trials and tribulations 587 01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:19,800 and all that mortality provides us and a Redeemer and everything everything in the temple is 588 01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:25,560 centered around the atonement of Jesus Christ we spend a lot of time on the fall which we'll 589 01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:32,160 spend a whole podcast on in the coming weeks but when I when I go to the temple and hear 590 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:38,840 the voice of God and consider all that he's done for me and the great plan of redemption 591 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:45,560 a man it is a that's why President Nelson right tells us about this spiritual momentum 592 01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:52,200 and the blessings that we receive when we go to the house of the Lord so tools that's 593 01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:58,760 just another tool he's given us so many tools to feel his love the word of the Lord we can 594 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:04,880 feel his love when we read the scriptures prayer we can feel his spirit when we serve 595 01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:11,240 and and serve in the church and magnify calling so all that music inspired music can help 596 01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:17,480 us to feel the love of God and the power of Christ in our life so you're right about that 597 01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:24,700 and everything Scott is to help us man is Adam failed that men might be and men are 598 01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:37,360 that they might have joy in my life Scott I love my life yeah because I know God loves 599 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:43,760 me and has a plan for me I got it I got a cute little story maybe then I'll be done 600 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:51,640 I love this little story I heard Joseph Philly McConkie tell this story and he was a great 601 01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:59,680 he was the son of Bruce R McConkie who was the son-in-law of Joseph Fielding Smith Bruce 602 01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:07,240 R McConkie's wife was the daughter of the president of the church and Joseph F McJoseph 603 01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:20,720 F McConkie was the oldest son of Bruce R McConkie and he was giving a primary talk one day and 604 01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:25,440 you'd have to kind of know his personality he was kind of he was a lot like elder McConkie 605 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:32,000 he was strong and bold and came off as being kind of sometimes a little brash which they 606 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:38,480 weren't they're very loving and humble but anyway he stands up to give a primary talk 607 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:49,320 when he was like eight or nine years old then he stands up and he says my granddad is the 608 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:56,400 president of the church I'm the grandson of the president of the church and he went on 609 01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:02,360 and gave his talk you know his little primary talk he said the girl that got up to give 610 01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:07,720 the talk after me the two and a little half two and a half minute talk she got up and 611 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:18,920 she said well I'm a child of God wow yeah there's some perspective for you and he 612 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:28,080 it totally just really even as a young child it really affected him wow I am a child of 613 01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:37,060 God Scott I know that's true in my in my heart and spirit and I just I know that's true we 614 01:07:37,060 --> 01:07:46,280 are sons and daughters of loving heavenly parents and and it makes all the difference 615 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:55,440 knowing that that they love me even in my extremities in my sins in my deficiencies 616 01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:06,600 in all of the the the phoniness and fake things that I go through in this life and the hard 617 01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:14,280 things and the bad things and they still love me I know they love me I know it's universal 618 01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:22,280 I know it's eternal and that they're intentional and they're intense in their love for me and 619 01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:30,280 that that gives me the motivation I need to repent and to seek the power of Christ in 620 01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:38,080 my life so that I can return and live with them and my family right I love that and you 621 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,900 know you say them that gives you the motivation and I and I love that too and for me it actually 622 01:08:42,900 --> 01:08:49,440 empowers me to right to know who I am gives me the power that is lacking that you know 623 01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:53,640 we hear about of the sons of perditions they don't have the power to come where I am and 624 01:08:53,640 --> 01:09:00,120 and I'm grateful for that today I'm grateful to as I as my identity becomes more clear 625 01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:06,000 and it's easier for me to to align myself with my heavenly father's will when my identity 626 01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,760 becomes more clear to me I'm grateful that we've had a I'm grateful that we've had this 627 01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:16,400 opportunity to talk about these so important things our identity and and really find a 628 01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:22,640 joy in our own life and and how do we how do we deal with devastation and the difference 629 01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,360 between that and desperation and you know I think I might just extend an invitation 630 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:32,480 right here to our listeners David as we go through this week particularly after and in 631 01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:39,680 preparation for taking the sacrament this week as we do that I invite us all to have 632 01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:45,560 a notebook or or maybe somewhere on our phone where we can record it's an interesting exercise 633 01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:51,160 I've done this before and I ask others to do it oftentimes in recovery as well but just 634 01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:58,280 for this week if we would just take a minute and record the the opportunities that we have 635 01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:03,680 had during a day or during the week to feel Heavenly Father's love for us to have a glimpse 636 01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:09,360 of who we are and we start writing those things down that I find that the more I focus on 637 01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:15,640 those there's a there's real power and focus the more I focus on those the more real they 638 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:21,920 become to me thank you Scott that's a great invitation thank you yeah let's do it all 639 01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:26,040 right gang thanks for being with us this week we look forward as always to being with you 640 01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:32,580 again next week as well just another invitation if you will for those of you who have suggestions 641 01:10:32,580 --> 01:10:37,640 or questions please don't hesitate to send those to us you can do it at he redeems us 642 01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,640 at gmail.com thanks for being with us