Hey there everybody, Scott Durfey here back with yet another podcast here with my uncle
David.
Say hey, Dave.
Hey, everybody.
It's good to be with you.
Today is going to be a very special podcast, a very special episode.
We have two special guests with us today, good friends of mine and about to become good
friends of y'all's too.
We have Jory Norton.
Say hi, Jory.
Hello.
And we have Mandy Norton, Jory's sweet, beautiful wife.
Say hi, Mandy.
Hi.
That's correct.
Sweet and beautiful.
Yeah.
Which is proof that Jory is just a fantastic salesman.
There's truth to that too.
At least in that case.
Yeah, for sure.
So listen, over the past several episodes, I mean, we have nearly 40 out now.
Our focus the entire time has been one thing, and that's been hope, healing, and redemption
through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And today, the reason we've brought Mandy and Jory as special guests with us today is
they have some experience that I think can help all of us in gaining that and establishing
or even enhancing our relationship that we have with Jesus, our Savior, through the administration
of the Holy Ghost because of some experiences that they've gone through.
So I'm gonna let David just kind of take it for a minute and maybe start asking some questions
and we'll just kind of follow the Spirit, follow the flow.
So here we go.
Well, we've talked before, Scott and Mandy and Jory, about the atonement of Jesus Christ
and what the atonement of Jesus Christ covers.
We know that Jesus Christ died for our sins.
Sometimes we don't focus enough upon how He died for sins committed against us, for the
suffering that we suffer innocently, for the suffering that we suffer through our children
or through the sins or mistakes or failures of others.
We don't talk enough sometimes about the compensatory blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ,
how He compensates us in our losses, how this is twice in the Scriptures, right?
Lehi said this to Jacob, Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants, section 98 talking about the
Saints in Jackson County when they lost everything, even some lives, and the Lord says that through
the atonement of Jesus Christ, He would consecrate, consecrate all their afflictions for their
gain, that somehow even in their losses, they would be consecrated.
You know, we think about Isaiah, that there would be beauty for ashes through the atonement
of Jesus Christ, that there would be a garment of praise for a spirit of heaviness.
All of the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ is not to just redeem us in the next
life, in the afterlife, but how it compensates us because of the fall of Adam and Eve and
not just our sins, but our death and suffering and pain that we experience in here in mortality,
which is all part of our mortal experiences.
But the Norton's, brother and sister Norton, we're so thankful that you're here, and you've
had some experiences that have been so difficult that I think our listeners can just gain so
much strength from hearing your experiences and the things that you've learned from these
experiences.
So, Mandy, you went on a mission.
Yes, I did.
South Africa, Cape Town, South Africa.
And had some success there?
I think.
I had a lot of fun.
It was a great experience.
Learn about the atonement of Jesus Christ, teach the restored gospel, come home.
You enjoy getting married how long after you're home?
Almost three years.
You get married three years after you've returned home because one of your companions was his
sister and that's how you met and that's how you got married, so sweet.
You had all these great spiritual experiences, but there's no way you could anticipate what
would soon happen after you returned home and got married.
And so why don't you just share with us a little bit about getting married and the experiences
that you had early on in your marriage and the loss of your child.
Let's see, we got married in 2002.
He's the one that knows that kind of stuff.
Hey, that's good.
I'll take that one.
I don't get very many.
We got married in 2002 and quickly were pregnant with our first baby and we lost that baby
early on in a miscarriage and quickly had another baby three months early.
So we had two babies in the span of a year, basically a year and one month.
And this was our sweet Kinley.
She was born three pounds, 12 ounces.
It's just a teeny little thing, but was a fighter and still holds the record at Utah
Valley Hospital for making it out of the ICU as quickly as she did.
She was there for 10 days.
So we were able to, which I see as a really big blessing also, it allowed more time with
her.
But she required a lot of care so we never really left her and then Jorie's sister was
getting married and was going to the temple to have her endowments taken out.
And we decided that we would leave her for the first time with a babysitter that was
known and trusted around in our community.
Our family members had used her a few times and I had no reservations at all about leaving
her with her.
And we went to the temple and had a really great experience that day with Jorie's whole
family.
In fact, I think Jorie, you said just getting to know you this morning that it was one of
the most powerful spiritual experiences that you had in the temple that day.
Do you want to share that?
Yes, absolutely.
So we, just to backtrack a little bit, but Mandy had come back from the mission and met
me and at the time I was coming through some of my own struggles and actually in the process
of a divorce from a first marriage and coming out of some decisions and choices in my life
that I was trying to crawl out of a little bit.
And so to me, she kind of came in at a time in my life where one, being a salesman is
an understatement.
I don't know what she thought or what she was thinking coming into the situation to
look at me and say, yeah, there's potential there.
When I could look...
She saw you as an investigator.
Yeah, so Jorie, I'm going to push pause on you right now because you're misleading our
listeners to a slight degree.
Jorie is a wonderful person and always has been.
I've known Jorie for about 20 years now.
Jorie and I met where I meet a lot of people that we have on here and his mom and dad were
actually very instrumental early on in my recovery from drugs and alcohol.
Don and Rhonda Norton will forever...
Their names will forever be sung with a lot of praises in this household because I love
them so much.
I remember actually about this time of year, Christmas time, going to their home for Christmas
parties with several of us.
John was there and Patrick, remember Patrick that played the guitar and all that.
It was just a great time.
So Jorie's a little bit self-abasing here, which is fine, but he is just a wonderful,
wonderful person.
He's extremely successful in the community.
He has all kinds of...
He's one of the best looking men, wouldn't you agree, Mandy?
I agree.
He's aging well.
Yeah, like fine wine they say, I think.
I'll take it.
So anyway, I had to call you out on that right early, Jorie.
So go ahead and continue.
No, I appreciate that Scott.
The feeling's mutual.
It's been great to know Scott and have the experiences we've had together.
But I was at a point in my life, I guess the perspective was I honestly looking in the
mirror at that point, I did not like what I saw.
And fortunately, when I looked at her, she saw something better and she saw something
different.
And so I...
She saw you with the eyes of faith.
Yeah, she was a blessing and a miracle for sure in my life.
And she may agree with this, may not, but she always wondered why she served a mission.
It was kind of this last minute, literally what, two or three weeks, you kind of decided
I guess I should go, got the papers in and she had a call and turned around.
And the MTC two weeks later.
And said, what?
In Africa, three days later.
How did I get here?
Kind of scenario.
And so it's kind of one of those things as you have experience in life and you look back,
at least I look up and again, give credit to the man above for the opportunity that
I was able to cross paths with her through her mission, her getting to serve with my
sister and come back and that's the way that we were able to meet.
But again, at that time, I'll give myself some credit, as Scott mentioned, I definitely
was striving for something better.
I knew I didn't want to be living the way that I had and some of the things that had
taken place.
And she came in just at the moment where it was another motivation to say, okay, yeah,
you know, you hear that story a lot, but those women that kind of helped save us or help
pull us in a better direction and she definitely was that for me.
But as we went that time to the temple, we were fortunate enough, we were able to get
married in the temple through our time together, we dated for quite some time.
But as she mentioned, you know, with everything going on after Kinley was born, our daughter,
you know, we hadn't been really back to the temple much and left her until that time when
my sister was going through.
So I will never forget the experience I had that day at the temple.
It was just something that I've never felt or experienced since.
But the power I felt that day in the temple was something now that I definitely look back
on and recognize the Lord's hand in that.
He was preparing me and I think preparing both of us for what was about to take place.
So after the temple, I called the babysitter.
Our daughter's name is Kinley and she was almost eight months old, about a week away
from being eight months old.
And I called to check on her and as soon as we got out of the temple and the babysitter
said she's fine, you know, everything's fine.
And so we went to lunch and then we went straight home and I walked in the door and the babysitter
was rocking our Kinley who was cold and gray and obviously not alive.
But the babysitter said that she had fallen off the of a trundle bed.
And at the time, you just believe what you're told, you know, we just how in the world this
happened but okay, we got it, you know, let's do what we have to do.
So I grabbed her and I, Jorie was outside in the car getting it warm for us.
I grabbed her and I ran outside and I screamed, you know, take us, we got to go to the hospital.
But then I realized her neck was broken and I needed to put her down so that I didn't
paralyze her.
And so we, because I thought going to the hospital in our car was going to be way faster
than getting an ambulance to us.
But in the meantime, I took her in later on the floor and started CPR on her.
And in about 30 seconds, a man that we have no idea who he is stopped and came in, in
his suit and tie and he was on his way.
I think he said a baptism to a baptism.
He left his whole family sitting out in the car and he just had heard on the radio and
he was helping me do CPR within probably 30 seconds of us calling 911.
And he was a professional and he immediately knew we needed a helicopter and had everything
in the works for us that we were able to have help, which we were pretty far away from help.
And we were able to get help immediately.
And I don't know how maybe five minutes.
This guy was a, when you say he was a professional, he was a medical professional.
Yeah, medical, paramedic.
And the radio that he heard it on was his radio for work.
Yeah, yes.
Yeah.
And he happened to have a radio on him that he just called right in for a helicopter.
And I recognized the signal that he called.
They try to not tell you in front of, you know, and I just said, why, why do we need
a helicopter?
She's okay.
She's going to be okay.
It's still, it didn't process yet what was going on.
She just fell off of a small bed.
You know, we later learned that that's not what happened and we don't know what happened
to her.
We've never been told.
The babysitter's never told the truth.
She's told a few stories, but we were able to, to get her to the hospital.
And they, by the time we got to primary children's hospital, they were already doing
brain surgery and removing her skull so she could, her brain could swell.
And we still had, would you say we still had some hope at that point?
I think we were still pretty naive.
We had gone from Salt Lake temple home, which was at this point, you know, Eagle Mountain
area and the ranches.
And from that point, the helicopter landed in the street and took our daughter, whisked
her away back up to primary children's.
They said, that's where we're headed.
So we hop back in the car driving back up that same direction.
And I guess at this point it was just this utter, you know, just, well, you can't even
comprehend or understand or process or have time to even believe what had happened.
What was that drive like?
It was, it's super surreal when you think about it.
Like I remember watching the helicopter.
I kept just watching the helicopter and I remember Joy's sister talking to him about
how he was going to do this without falling off the wagon, drugs and alcohol.
And just saying, you've got something big ahead of you.
How are you going to do this?
And that's all I really remember about the drive there.
Do you remember anything else?
Even at that point, as I think back now, I feel, you know, my grandpa once shared an
experience of when he was in this horrible scenario on a plane that was going down and
he felt kind of this overwhelming, almost like honey just kind of draped over him that,
you know, he could take a breath and he felt this peace that he, you know, at that time
didn't even know or understand, but it's later expressed what he felt like that was.
And I think even from the beginning, you know, as I look back on that drive, one, we, it
was such a whirlwind and we still, we had a reason to hope.
We didn't really know for sure what had happened.
We hadn't heard any definite medical determinations or of what had taken place, but it was almost
like already kind of in this cloud of protection of like, you know, kind of what I felt in
the temple that day.
And just this, this power beyond me that was aware and not even knowing at that point what
I was, what we were driving to other than something not good had happened.
So kind of in hindsight, you would look back at your experience in the temple.
You said it was one of the most spiritual experiences you had had.
And you were being prepared.
And so the administration of the Holy Ghost had been with you throughout that day and
was continuing with you, it sounds like.
Would you say that's accurate?
For sure.
And we've talked about in the, on this podcast several times, Mandy and Jory, that the Holy
Ghost, the really one of the major roles of the Holy Ghost is to administer the atonement
of Jesus Christ in our life.
So looking back on it now, but maybe not really knowing at the time, the atonement of Jesus
Christ was being administered into your life really right from the very beginning, even
before, even before you even knew what had happened.
Yeah, for sure.
And through that whole process, right?
Yep.
And Mandy, you're going to tell us more about what happened at the hospital.
We got, when we got there, they took us, I was a little bit of a crazy lady.
I can chime in if you need to.
The ER was chuck full and I just barged my way right to the front desk and said, my baby
just came in on life flight.
Where is she?
And immediately they had us whisked off to a room, a white room.
And I'm in the medical profession and I know what that white room means.
And it was a good hour maybe or two that we sat there and waiting for an update.
And they came down and told us that she was, well, actually in that time, we might want
to add that we, there were detectives up there and we didn't know why they had come to interview
us and took us to separate rooms to make sure our story, they didn't know we weren't home.
And it was called in as a child abuse case by the helicopter, from the helicopter.
So they took us to separate areas and interviewed us to make sure our stories matched.
And then when they realized we weren't there, we really don't know what happened to her.
They came and told us she had some serious fractures to her skull and a broken neck and
had been shaken very hard.
Her, her, I can't think of the right word, torn.
And you know that there's, we're just going to see there's a chance.
There's not much of a chance, but there's a chance.
And so we waited for a long time and family members started to come and help us.
And we spent that so that this was probably by the evening, Saturday night, and nothing
had really happened besides, you know, she was being kept alive on machines, tons of
visitors.
We were just really overwhelmed.
And then the next morning they just told us, you know, she, she declined during the night
and she's a vegetable basically.
And I can remember on the drive, on the drive up there also praying, saying, I will take
care of any condition she's in, just save her.
But so then we were Sunday morning, Jordan, I were there alone.
And actually I think, I think my parents slept in a waiting room somewhere around the hospital.
But there was a lot of that going on.
Yeah, people were hiding out around for waiting for us.
When I went in and Jordan was able to fall asleep for a few minutes, but I was able,
I went and got him and just said, you know, she's not doing well.
And the team of doctors that had been working on her came and took us to a private room
and sat us down and just said, you know, we have machines that can keep her alive, keep
her body alive for as long as possible or as long as you want.
But you know, you need to think about taking her off of life support.
And they were interested in donation.
That was a part of their trying to get us to quickly, you know, make some decisions.
And they just stared at us like we were supposed to just have that answer right away.
And so we asked if it was okay if we would pray about it.
And they were respectful and left us there in the room.
And Jordan and I knelt down together, just offered a simple prayer.
And we stood up and we didn't say a word to each other.
We just hugged each other and said, we can do this.
And at that point, we walked out and just got the doctor's attention and said, we're
going to take her off.
It was time for her to go.
There was no doubt in our mind that experience of in that little waiting room.
I'll never forget again.
You know, I look back on the temple or the drive or these little experiences now.
And that is one that has been foundational for us as we know.
And I mean, literally, we stood up and we looked at each other and as we can look at
each other now, and we did not have to say a word.
We never had to question.
I can imagine, you know, we stood up and she said, well, I think we should do this.
And I said, oh, no, I think we should do this.
What a tender mercy without even words spoken, just solidified in our hearts that we knew
that this it was her time.
It was her time to go throughout this whole experience to I've had a lot of people.
I think a lot more people come to me than to Jory.
Probably I have a lot of other people that have lost kids and that kind of stuff that
talk to me and say, how, how are you not angry?
How are you not?
How did you ever go back to the temple?
How did you go back to church?
How did you know any and still have people ask those questions?
And it's never been a question in our mind that it was a punishment.
You know, it has always been we've just we've had that experience really has gotten us through
a lot of really hard times by referring back to those feelings of she was supposed to go.
And unfortunately, we had waited too long that her brain had been gone too long that
she couldn't donate much.
But her eyes, we were able to donate her eyes and give beautiful blue eyes, give somebody
else the chance to see, you know, and honestly, I think through, you know, we waited for we
waited for our family members to all get there to be able to say goodbye to her.
And we rocked her until she passed and driving the hardest part, I will say, right for me
was leaving the hospital without my baby and handing her body over to somebody else.
You know, but I will say the the amount of people that have asked questions and asked
how we did this and how all of it we could we always just we have no other nothing else
we could refer to of how we did this other than through the atonement and through somebody
taking our pain for us.
Obviously, we still feel a lot of pain.
And I miss my daughter.
But the collateral beauty that we have seen come out from it, from being able to help
other people.
And I honestly can't can't give you a number on how many people have called and asked,
you know, how do I help my family member, how do I help my sister, they just lost their
child this, you know, what could I do or I've I've reached out when I hear of anyone that's
lost a child, I always reach out to them.
I feel like that's been more my part of filling her close to me is to help other people through
it.
I haven't had a lot of spiritual experiences with her, other than knowing where she is
and knowing that that I get to be with her again.
But I think Heavenly Father's way of helping me is I'm a fixer, obviously, I, I'm somebody
that wants to help heal.
I think that's something that Heavenly Father's blessed me with is the ability to not be super
emotional when I'm doing that and to just help.
You can't fix it, you know, but you can tell them that they're going to be okay in ways
that we've been okay.
Where did you where did you kind of learn this, Mandy?
I mean, it's listening to your story.
It's amazing to me.
You were how old at the time?
I was 26.
You were 26 years old at the time.
That's been, I think you said 19, she'd be 19 years old.
Yeah, on February, or let's see, February 1st, she'll have been gone for 19 years.
Yeah, wow.
So you were 26 years old, Mandy, and you were able to process all this as hard as it was
and as difficult and the grief and the mourning and all that that you went through.
But somehow your faith never wavered.
Never.
Your testimony was never shaken.
You somehow knew that God was in control.
Where did that come from?
Where did that strength come from?
I don't know.
I had to dig deep, I think.
I think we both did, but.
Was it something on your mission?
Was it something in your youth?
What was it that was it just a gift?
Was it something that was, were you born with this?
Is this pre-mortal?
I mean, where did you get this spiritual strength or understanding of the atonement of Jesus
Christ?
Where did you get that at 26?
I honestly don't know, but I think probably my mission is where I started to kind of understand
that.
I still don't understand the atonement fully and don't utilize it as much as I should and
could.
But I don't know, honestly.
I can't tell you.
I know it's a gift, whether you can identify the source or not.
This is a gift from God that somehow you were blessed to receive and that you received it
early in your life.
And can you imagine trying to go through what you went through without having that gift?
People ask all the time, how did you do that?
I could never do what you did.
People say that.
And I don't like comparing trials.
I think our trials are relative to our own situations.
I don't like people saying, oh, I could never do what you did because you never know how
strong you're going to be until you have to be.
Exactly.
And I don't know where it came from, but I know that I have quite a few moms and quite
a few people that have been able to get strength from my testimony of it.
It doesn't mean that I don't love her and don't miss her and would give anything to
have her back.
I would love to not have to help these people.
I would love to not know what they're feeling.
But a huge part of me is to try to take some of their pain away.
And I feel like that's been my calling since she passed.
I think we've grieved and mourned in completely different ways.
And I think mine has been more through other people, helping and talking to other people
and just the hardest part is not having an answer of what happened to our child to say,
I don't know what happened to my baby, but this is how we got through it.
And we're still getting through it.
It's not something that you just get over ever.
So two things.
So you were given a gift.
You received it.
26 years old.
And God has used you as a gift.
I mean, literally, He's used you as a gift and an instrument to bless the lives of so
many more for the last 19 years.
I do feel like that's been my way of honoring her and just keeping her alive in our home
and around us.
We don't sugarcoat any of it.
We don't.
But everyone that knows us knows about our daughter because she's still in our family.
She's still a part of our family.
And yeah, I just think that that was my own personal blessing and still is.
And like I said, the beauty that we've been able to see the ripple effect of what our
testimonies have done for other people.
That doesn't mean that I haven't questioned or it doesn't mean that I haven't, but I could
always go back to my testimony and knowing that I get to be with her again.
And I would never...
I don't think I could do this without the gospel and knowing that I get to be with her
again.
I mean, I guess other people do it, but I don't know how I would without that.
So not only the power and the grace and the mercy and all of that from the atonement of
Jesus Christ, not only the Holy Ghost and having the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Comforter
to be with you and all of that, but what I'm hearing you say is your firm witness and testimony
of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine that families can be together
forever and the unconditional redemption of Jesus Christ and knowing that as parents having
been sealed in the Holy Temple for time and all eternity, that that child is yours forever
and ever to be raised by you in the millennium.
That's given you a lot of strength too.
Yeah, it gives me a lot of hope and it keeps me going a lot.
I mean, I'll admit, you know, I feel sometimes I feel like I have one foot there and one
foot here and want to be on both sides.
You know, I want to be with her, but I, you know, I have my kids here.
But yeah, I feel like we've I've been given some kind of strength that only can be explained
to me through our Savior.
And this angel, Kinley, has you haven't had any you've said told told me earlier that
you have any really personal experiences with her you haven't felt, but how is she as an
angel blessing your family?
Do you think now?
I think she's with my kids a lot.
I know she's with our oldest daughter.
She talks about her a lot and she she actually writes in a journal that she writes to her.
She's how that's how much she wants her sister, you know, so she's she writes letters to her.
This is your 17 year old daughter.
Yeah.
And she's always since she was could talk, she's always had a very spiritual relationship
with her, which has really helped also to, you know, know that she's watching out for
our kids.
And and I know that Joy's had some experiences with her.
I even know of, you know, some neighbor kids that have said some things about her that
they really shouldn't know her.
Yeah.
So, you know, she's around.
She's our little angel.
We do.
We love her, our angel, and I know she's around and I and I know that she's helping
me more than I recognize.
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught the doctrine that those who have passed on, our loved ones
who have passed on, are more aware of us than we are of them.
And they feel after us and they feel our emotions.
I think that's so interesting that that he taught that and I believe that that we have
we all have people who love us on the other side of the veil and who watch over us and
who who definitely feel after us and are involved in our lives without us maybe being aware
of them.
Yeah.
I prayed for years for some big experience.
You know, I wanted to see her.
I wanted to see that she was OK and that that hasn't been what Heavenly Father's wanted
me to see.
So I've had to find sometimes I have to think of, you know, how can I do today and how can
I get, you know, but I can.
We always do.
In fact, you mentioned that you feel like that's almost been a protection to you.
Yeah.
That you haven't had like personal experiences maybe with her.
Yeah.
I just feel like it might be too.
I'm really emotional when it comes to her and I feel like it would maybe be too hard
for me.
And I think that's Heavenly Father's way of protecting me.
Well, Jorie, on the other hand, when this all happened and your sister, was it your
sister who warned you who warned you about this is going to be heavy.
It's going to be hard.
Why don't you just catch us up a little bit, Jorie, without getting into a ton of detail
about maybe a few of the challenges and so forth that you had faced and through the help
of a 12 step program and your Heavenly Father and Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was able
to work into some recovery time and stuff like that.
Why don't you just kind of give us that perspective?
So I kind of alluded to how we met, Andy and I, and where I had gotten myself to a place
of a little better footing and overcome through 12 steps where we met Scott and in those experiences
there had gotten to a place where I had started experiencing the atonement, where I had been
in places of overwhelming despair, you know, that hole that we dig and not knowing any
other way that I could get out.
I actually had a front row seat to this watching Jorie go through the trials and stuff that
he went through, not just during this time, but prior to it and even after it.
And to watch Jorie walk hand in hand with the Spirit has been a wonderful thing through
all of this, even right from the very start when that relationship with the Spirit may
have been just a little bit strange, Jorie.
Yeah.
It was.
It was those...
You know, I kind of in this experience and all of it, it interrelates to just, I guess,
the natural man and in our finite mind trying to figure it out, you know, how do I get through
this?
Whether it was my challenges with addiction and substances and overcoming those things
from decisions that I'd made.
You know, you get to a point where you try anything and everything of your own power
to say, I don't want to do this.
You know, I don't want to live like this.
But I knew I would make that commitment and promise to myself every night, you know, after
another day of, man, I don't want to be living this way.
I don't want to be doing this.
But yet that next day would come after every fiber of my being committing that I don't
want to be there.
I'm not going to do this again.
And the next morning I knew I would wake up and I knew exactly where I was going to be
and what I was going to be doing because I didn't know any other way.
You know, I couldn't fix some of these challenges and problems that I'd got myself into.
And that was the beginning stages of my understanding of, you know, what do I need to do to find
something in power greater than myself to restore me and help me to get out of this
hole that I've dug.
And my last experience was six years of that cycle of every day, you know, just not wanting
to do the things I was doing, not want to live that way, even recognizing that, you
know, the wreckage and the things I was, you know, doing to people around me that loved
me.
And I did not want that.
My desires, my wants were good.
But until I understood that I needed to look beyond my own self and willpower to find a
way out of this, I couldn't six years.
And I remember the day when I, what we call surrendered that day of complete desperation
and pleading and, you know, call it that you dug that hole.
And I remember one phrase that stuck with me is, you know, if you want to get out of
this hole, because I was digging it, trying to dig myself out.
And that was just creating tunnels all over the place to nowhere.
But the simple phrase, drop the shovel, stop digging, and look up.
And
Can I interrupt you really fast?
I think it's, well, I think it's really important for for you to say that you were able to be
clean and sober through Kinley's entire life, which the six years came after that.
But before that, he also struggled for years.
So you know, with this huge, how you know, with addiction and recovery, it's not just
a one day thing and you're better.
And he was able, we feel like it was such a blessing from heaven that he was able to
be clean for her whole life.
Yeah.
How come?
Why?
As long as Kinley was here, what was the saving grace about Kinley?
What was it about this baby?
This angel already.
Yeah.
How did she save your life for a year?
Yeah, you've raised the term gift.
And that's kind of resounding in my mind.
We talked about my angel wife, the gift of the timing and when she came into my life.
And then we talked about this gift of our angel daughter and, you know, my true desires,
you know, and I think through all of that, it's just it's understanding of the perspective.
You know, we think things in our own mind and and try to solve it, but not understanding
that the the Lord is always there.
He's mindful.
He's aware of us.
He waits patiently, very patiently in some cases like mine.
But she definitely, you know, was a gift at that time, and as Mandy mentioned, one of
the greatest tender mercies now that I recognize and we've mentioned a few of these is the
fact that her life, I was in a place where I was there and I was present and I was able
to love her with everything I had up until her last day.
And now I continue to and I feel her close and I know she's there.
But for me, I think perspective is is really something that's changed everything in my
life.
It's perspective and through the Spirit, we're actually able to see a true infinite perspective
where naturally we just get caught up in, you know, this and that and the things that,
you know, we have to do here, we have to accomplish, but we don't see the bigger picture or understand
it or even comprehend it.
And through these experiences and my experiences through the perspective of the Spirit, I've
learned what the atonement of Jesus Christ is for me, for myself, for our angel daughter,
for our family.
And I'm so grateful for that.
There's days now, like I said, we're in different places.
You know, all of us were doing different things and the world will throw something across
our bow, you know, any given day that's going to take us for a loop or a ride.
But I know through my experiences in the sure foundation I have on the rock of our Redeemer
Jesus Christ, through my experiences, what a gift it is to have that perspective.
And no matter what, as long as I have that foundation, I can come back to that same perspective,
whether it's with my own challenges, with our family, our daughter, our 17-year-old
teenage daughter now.
What an incredible gift we learn through these experiences if we are able to see them through
the lens of the Spirit in that perspective.
The eternal perspective that the gospel gives us, right?
So Joria, I love this phrase, put down the shovel.
Put down the shovel and look up.
Wow.
Is that a thought or like a voice in your mind?
And tell me what happened right after that.
How did that come to you?
It's interesting.
You mentioned it even now and you can call it a thought.
You can call it, you can kind of picture it or whatever, but it is a physical experience
of relief, of lifting off these weights of years of just wondering how did I get here?
How do I get to a better place?
Even though I want it with all my heart and soul, I can't figure this out.
For me now, it's a daily event.
You can look at that picture, but I feel that in my things.
There's things that I do every single day now that I've learned through my experience
in life and recovery that I know I start my day every single day with that type of visual.
In my studies, in my prayer and meditation that I know each day I got to do that almost
in a way, feel that burn lifted and say, Lord, I need your help and I'm ready and I'm willing.
Guide me today in the things that you'd have me do.
This is like President Nelson describes, the daily, the joy of daily repentance.
Basically you feel that, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for reminding me because we take it for granted and it doesn't take long for
me to think back and that's the gift too.
We're reminded and have gratitude which in tune keeps in line with our humility and our
ability to recognize and feel and see the tender mercies of the Lord, feel the Spirit
and have the strength we need to push forward and for me to support and love my amazing
life through these experiences.
I think that's part of the perspective I see.
There's things I went through that helped prepare me.
It doesn't seem like that was a good thing for me to go through or have to experience
or live with but now when we see things through the lens of that perspective in the Spirit,
we recognize it for what it is and it's the truth that I was here, I'm always here and
all these things will work together for your good.
And that all these things will be consecrated for your gain as an elders quorum president,
right?
Is that your serving?
Of your brother, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
You're in my brother's ward.
I'm sorry for him, I apologize.
You're his elders quorum president.
I mean through opportunities like that, really, Jory, because of your experience, how are
you able to administer the atonement of Jesus Christ into the lives of others because of
your experience?
Yeah, that is, I'm still learning but what an amazing blessing.
I have opportunities and if anything I've learned in my experience of callings or whatever,
it's about the one.
I've had opportunities to really experience that, the people that I can really understand
and relate and share my faith and hope with through those experiences.
Jory's not going to be the kind of person that's going to really tout himself much,
which is great and we wouldn't want that anyway but I feel like it's important that I say
something about that.
You know, Dave, you ask a question, how do you help administer the atonement of Jesus
Christ, Jory, to those among whom you serve, your ward members?
Virtually all of the adults in your ward are under your stewardship, at least all of the
men and the answer to that is obvious to those of us who know you and it may not be obvious
to you because to those of us who know you, the way we administer, the best way anything
or anybody could administer the atonement of Jesus Christ into the lives of others is
to be Christ-like and Jory is Christ-like and in order for that to be accomplished there's
really a few things that need to happen too.
The scriptures tell us that this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God
in Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent, Jory knows Jesus, he knows him, he knows him.
And then there's another commandment, be therefore perfect even as I or your father in heaven,
which is, even as I or your father who is in heaven is perfect.
Jory's not perfect but Jory is inviting and qualifying for perfection through the atonement
of Jesus Christ by supplicating himself every single day, right Mandy?
I mean on a pretty regular basis at least to the will of our heavenly Father turning
his will and his life, O to the care of God as we understand him, which is the third step
of Alcoholics Anonymous.
And then Jory also talked about when you asked him about putting down the shovel and Jory
said it's just something I have to do every day.
In the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous we read, and I don't know if I'm quoting it
verbatim, I think I am, but we read what we really have is just a daily reprieve based
on our spiritual condition.
Oftentimes some of the greatest gifts in our lives, beauty for ashes, you know, can come
from some of the most seemingly tragic to the rest of the world seemingly tragic experiences.
There's no doubt that the two of you and your entire family, because this stuff doesn't
happen in a bubble.
This has affected everyone who loves you.
This affected Deb and I.
We cried, literally cried multiple times as we prayed by the side of our bed for you while
this was going on.
This stuff doesn't just happen in a bubble.
It happens to all of us.
When it happens to one of us, it happens to all of us.
The thing that we've been able to see and I've appreciated, and Jory you've had your
struggles through it.
We all have struggles through it, but because you have been able to exercise a broken heart,
right?
I can't.
He can.
I think I'll let him.
That's how we kind of define that in recovery.
And a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and you already talked about that.
You know, the contrite spirit is just turning to him every day, finding joy in daily repentance.
And you talked about that.
And your example to not just those around you, not just those in your ward, not just
those in your family, not just those that you have stewardship over in your own family
too, but many, many others, Jory and Mandy, because of the things that you've gone through,
we all, we all get to feel and witness the effects of the atonement as well.
Well, I feel, really Mandy and Jory, I feel like Kinley has blessed my life today.
Thanks.
You know, just getting to know you and to know your story, I feel like your experience
and her, that she's blessed my life today.
I want to read to you a quote from Elder Anderson's book called The Divine Gift of Forgiveness.
And I want you to just comment on this because there's kind of another aspect of this story,
I think, which is not just how the atonement covered you, compensated you, how the atonement
of Jesus Christ allowed you to consecrate your loss for gain, but how you were able
to forgive, how you were able to forgive and not allow any sort of resentment to come into
your life as a result of this experience.
So let me read this quote and ask you to respond to this quote, Mandy, and just give me your
thoughts about it.
Our faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ not only includes faith in the Savior's ability
to pay for our sins, but also His ability to heal our wounds when others sin against
us.
Christ paid for all the sins of all the world, including the effects of those sins.
Forgiveness is not excusing sin.
It is trusting in the atonement of Jesus Christ.
I like that last part so much because, can you read that last sentence one more time?
Yeah, I love it too, Mandy.
Forgiveness is not excusing sin or the mistakes of others.
Forgiveness is not excusing sin.
It is trusting in the atonement of Jesus Christ.
That's exactly what we've had to do.
I've had to do.
Because I can tell you honestly, my feelings, and I think we've talked about this quite
a bit, but at the beginning I just knew I needed, I couldn't do it being angry.
I couldn't live that way.
I couldn't live being mad at this babysitter.
I couldn't live with that resentment inside of me and be happy.
It was pretty fast that I just felt like, okay, we just need to forgive her and move
on with that part.
It's not going to work.
She's not going to tell us what happened.
She's never really apologized, never apologized really.
It's just been, but I felt it pretty immediately that it was essential to forgive her so that
we could really grieve for our daughter.
I want to be honest in saying that as the years go by, I do have a lot of moments of
anger towards the babysitter who sinned against us, but it's always usually taken away from
me pretty fast.
The only anger I feel about it is I just want her to say she's sorry.
But I know that I'm not going to know what happens until my daughter tells me what happened
to her.
Holding resentment and hatred and holding those feelings inside, it's too heavy.
It's too much, so we have to give it up.
That's a choice.
It's a daily choice, several times a day sometimes.
That's a choice you made from the very beginning, was that your focus would not be on the babysitter.
Your focus was going to be on Kenley and the Atonement of Jesus Christ and being in an
eternal family.
The only way that I could have survived it, I didn't want to be here anymore after she
left and that copy through.
For 19 years, that's been a daily choice.
It's definitely a choice.
That's amazing.
But I also feel like it's been a huge gift from Heavenly Father to give that to us because
I've had so many people say, you were in the temple, how could a loving Heavenly Father
do this to you?
And that was said to us a lot.
I can honestly say I never felt anger towards my Heavenly Father for it.
I never felt like I was getting punished or that I don't know.
It was just a gift.
The Atonement of Jesus Christ is there for all of us.
The gift is for all of us.
But it must be received and that's the choice.
That is the choice and you have chosen daily to choose Him and to choose the Atonement
of Jesus Christ and redemption and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, all of that.
And others who don't focus on that but choose to focus on the negative, it's amazing how
that goes to two different places.
And I don't want to sound like I'm this saint that never has hard feelings or I don't want
to sound like that.
We're just sinners helping sinners.
Right.
Yes, I do plenty of things that aren't right.
But I do feel like through the last 20 years that I've been guided and directed and I've
been carried 100%.
Yeah, I think it's important for us to, we've thought about this a lot, but in honoring
her and through this experience, we've had discussions of nothing else.
What can we do from this and learn from this experience and share hope?
I'm sure there's listeners and my hope is that they recognize that this is, no matter
where you're at, there is that hope and there is that gift.
And we, through our experiences, that's all we have to share.
Not a perfect way of how we got there, how we did it.
We all have our roundabout way, but that hope is there, that gift is there.
And as we have chosen, as you mentioned, to accept that gift, you can't even express the
gratitude that we have to our loving Heavenly Father and to our Savior for His atonement
and sacrifice that has brought us here.
Yeah, the next, for us to, I don't want to say the word celebrate, but when the anniversary
of the date came of her death, we were wondering, how do we do get through this day?
And we decided we go to the temple, show Heavenly, you know, it was kind of our way of thanking
Heavenly Father for the gifts that He's given us.
And we went to the temple and the temple president came and talked to us for a while before and
told us that we had a baby girl coming.
And I sure enough had a baby girl in my tummy.
And it just was a really special experience that being in the same place on the anniversary
that she died was healing for us.
And we did it for quite a few years with that and invited family members and stuff.
And it just, to me, that was our way of just telling Heavenly Father, we're still here.
Thank you and keep helping us.
Well, thank you for sharing your story and the blessing of hope and the healing that
that offers to so many of our listeners, myself included.
I'm really, really thankful that you came and shared your experience with us today.
And you know, Scott will kind of help us conclude this, but I'd like to maybe just invite them,
Scott, when you're finished to maybe just share by, it just seems appropriate, the Spirit's
really strong here to end with something of a testimony in the name of Jesus Christ and
so grateful for Him and for all that He has given us, that He was so willing to come down
and knowing that we would have these experiences, no doubt knowing even before you had that
experience that you would have that experience and that He suffered it.
And grateful that you've been able to receive it.
It's there, but it has to be received.
And those who reject the gift, as we've talked about, not only reject the gift, they reject
the giver of the gift, Christ Himself.
And you're an amazing example of receiving that gift and the blessing that's been in
your life and in all of our lives who know you.
So thank you so much, Scott.
Thanks for being with us, you guys.
I hope you know how much I love you.
And thanks for being here and sharing with us something that can't be easy to share,
something that can't even be easy to relive like you must have to do even sometimes in
the quiet chambers of your own soul, you know, and to deal with the things that you've had
to deal with.
I appreciate our relationship.
I appreciate the experiences that we have had over the years.
Some of my most spiritual experiences have been in the same room with Jory and I appreciate
that.
Love you both.
Thanks for being with us today.
I know that you will have touched.
So we're going to conclude.
First we'll hear from Jory, then we'll hear from Andy if that's okay.
And upon conclusion, may you just know how much our listeners, how much we love you,
how much we appreciate your being a part of this with us today and always.
And we invite you to always remember that you have always been also been redeemed through
His blood.
If you'd like to get ahold of Mandy and Jory for whatever reason, we'd invite you to just
reach out to me or to David and I here at he redeems us at gmail.com and we will go
ahead and filter those through as is appropriate to them.
Okay, with that, Jory.
I first just express my gratitude for the opportunity to be here and be with you.
And as Scott mentioned, it is it is a lot to consider when asked, because we know every
time the roller coaster we're about to jump on of emotion and reliving experiences and
challenges.
But my testimony is one just ultimately of gratitude, because my next emotion right after
oh, you know, am I going to be able to do that again, and along with my sweet wife and
seen and knowing the emotion it brings up in her to share these experiences.
Immediately I go to gratitude for what the Lord has given me for the gift of the atonement
for the redeeming power I truly have been rescued.
I've truly been redeemed through his grace.
I've seen it directly in my day to day life and an overcoming challenges and given the
enabling power through our struggles and trials and this experience of losing our daughter
that we shared with you today.
But if nothing else, I just want to share ultimately my testimony of hope through him.
No matter where you're at and anyone listening, if there's nothing else I could give today,
it would be that gift of hope that knowing that through my experience with the Savior
and the atonement, he has given me the strength to overcome things that I never thought I
could overcome to get through trials that I never could have comprehended.
And in turn, taking me to places where I look at now and you mentioned, you know, elders
corn president and to me, I still like look at the point.
Wait, what you're talking to me, you know, that's that's me.
I look back and and there's no doubt in my mind, every fiber of my being knows why and
how.
I used to ask the question, how did I get here?
And that was one of beaten, bruised, torn through trials and decisions and challenges
and one of frustration.
Today my testimony is complete opposite of how did I get here?
And looking up and thanking my heavenly father for his son and for his grace and for the
joy I have each day and living with that and accepting that gift that he offers each and
every one of us.
And I just share that with you and in my testimony and gratitude for this opportunity and and
love of my sweet, incredible wife and the gift that she is to me.
And I do that in the name of Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Joy is much better at this than I am.
He's more of the he would like to shout his testimony from the rooftops and and he does
as much as he can.
And I'm more quiet about about it and a little bit more reserved.
But I'll admit it took a lot for me to get here.
Took a lot of joy, coercing me to get here.
I didn't I was scared to relive it.
But I've always been reminded that if I can help one person, it's worth it.
And I truly believe with all of my heart that we don't go through our trials to keep quiet
about them.
We go through our trials to help people.
And otherwise, what what is it worth?
You know, we we didn't go through this to hide and be quiet.
We went through it to be able to be there for other people.
And I'm grateful that I can see that perspective.
And I think, you know, Heavenly Father, I it's more subtle and inside of me, my testimony.
But there's nothing that I there's nothing I hold more dear to my heart than my testimony
to our Savior.
And I'm so grateful that He is there for me and gets me through a lot of hard days.
It doesn't go away.
People always ask, you know, how long does it take to get over?
You don't it doesn't you don't get over it.
And I just know that my Heavenly Father has helped me every day and he helps me to know
the right thing to say to other people that are struggling.
And if I could help one person through this, it's all worth it.
And I just want to share that I know my Savior and Heavenly Father are aware of me and I
might not feel my daughter physically close to me, but I know she's around.
I know that she is cheering us on and I just want you to know that that we're here to help
each other through our trials.
We're not here to go through this alone.
And that's the Savior proved that to us.
And I'm just really grateful for that.
They say that the name of Jesus Christ, the name of Jesus Christ.