1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,200 Alright, hey everybody. Here we are again. This is Scott. Got David here with me. Hey, Dave. 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:18,240 Yeah, so good to be here, Scott. What a great time of the year, huh? Yeah, such a great time of the 3 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:26,000 year. Right in the holiday season. So much to be grateful for and look forward to and celebrate. 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:34,480 Let's try to finish off the year strong and look forward to a new year and all the great things 5 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:41,440 that goes with that. And I also, my heart really goes out, Scott, to those who have such a hard time 6 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:48,640 this time of year. I always think about that. I guess I learned that really intimately, 7 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:58,320 you know, being a bishop and some of the lonely people and for those who have those challenges 8 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:09,360 or who are alone or it just seems like this season can also magnify any loneliness or adversity 9 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:17,280 that individuals are going through. So it's the best of times and it's the worst of times, I guess. 10 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:23,360 Yeah, it really is. You know, this time of year, and I begin to see it already, it's probably not 11 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:28,080 early. It feels like it's early to be seeing this. But this time of year in the rooms of Recovery, 12 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:36,000 Dave, we see a lot of just intense despair, you know, coming through. Like you said, it seems to 13 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,600 just kind of amplify what's going on. And so if things are good, it can amplify that. But if things 14 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:48,640 are just really kind of bad for people, that can seem amplified as well. And that amplification can 15 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:57,200 cause a lot of despair, a lot of discouragement, a lot of sadness this time, a lot of loneliness. 16 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:05,920 So many, so many sad things too, even in the world this time of year, you know. 17 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:14,720 But Scott, and I don't want to minimize the loneliness and despair others feel at all. But 18 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:23,680 oh, if we could all just know that wherever we go, or whatever condition in life we're at, 19 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:31,040 or place it in life we're at, that the Savior is with us. The Savior is cheering for us. 20 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:44,880 He's advocating for us. That He's with us. I just wish that myself and all of us could just really 21 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:53,360 deepen our relationship with Jesus Christ. And this is the perfect time of the year to really do 22 00:02:53,360 --> 00:03:01,920 that, you know, to contemplate His birth and His life and His death. Remembering President Hinckley 23 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:09,520 said there'd be no Christmas. If it were not for Easter, we should think about Easter in Christmas, 24 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:15,760 in the season of Christmas. We should think about Christmas at the time of Easter. We should always 25 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:24,240 be thinking about Jesus Christ. And if we have a relationship with Him, Scott, and we have the 26 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:34,240 Holy Ghost with us, a Comforter, companion, administering the gifts, blessings, mercy, grace, 27 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:41,680 of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. Again, I can't ever judge and wouldn't want to 28 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:52,160 trade places with anybody. But wow, it could really be a season of light, a season of warmth, 29 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:59,440 a season of joy and peace. It would seem like for anybody who had a relationship with Jesus Christ. 30 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I mean, it is a time when ultimately, you know, we'll be 31 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:14,080 celebrating His birth. And I'm with you. I love Christmas for all that it is and all that it means, 32 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,320 especially as it relates to the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. 33 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:28,400 At Easter, that's it for me. That's really where I feel that, and I'm grateful that we have Christmas 34 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:36,480 again. But you know, that Easter season, when we really celebrate the sacrifice, the bitter cup, 35 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,720 the descending below all things, you know, that's really what gives Christmas, because I've had those 36 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Christmases. I've had those Christmases that were lonely. I remember my first Christmas, 37 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:58,160 recently divorced. My kids were not with me. I was drinking like crazy. And I just remember that 38 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:05,680 I ate Christmas Eve, sitting in my home alone, my apartment alone, and just being super sad. 39 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,680 But the very next Christmas, my conditions hadn't changed much except that I was in recovery now. 40 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:18,560 And I was working on a relationship with my higher power as a second step in recovery. I was 41 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:24,240 working on that relationship with Jesus. And it was a different Christmas. You know, I was still 42 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:30,800 alone. Yeah, I wasn't drinking anymore, but I was still alone. I nothing in my life had changed much, 43 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:36,240 except for now I had the spirit in my life a little more. Yeah, and it made a huge difference. 44 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,760 So yeah, we're looking forward to that. Encourage everybody to do what you need to do to walk with 45 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:48,320 him during this period of time. Even those of us who are celebrating wonderful things in our lives, 46 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:54,320 and few challenges, relatively speaking. Christmas is never really Christmas if we don't walk with 47 00:05:54,320 --> 00:06:00,240 the Savior through Christmas. Yeah. I think we should, you know, we started this podcast, Scott, 48 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:07,040 doing Easter. I think we should do a podcast. I was going to say maybe we should end it with 49 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:15,040 Christmas, but I think we'll continue through the new year. But we should do a special podcast 50 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:25,200 in the next week or so on Christmas and really look at the events of Christmas and the application of 51 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:31,040 some of those Christmas stories in our life here now. I think that'd be wonderful. People have asked 52 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,600 for that already. As I've talked to people, they've asked, are you going to be doing that? And I've 53 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,800 kind of told them, yeah, I think tentatively we will be. So let's also talk about what we talked 54 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:47,600 about earlier, Dave. Beginning in January, I think we're going to plan on doing sort of a series, 55 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,920 a seminar almost, if you will. And, you know, we can call it whatever we want, but it'll be, 56 00:06:53,920 --> 00:07:01,120 it's sort of focused on living our lives more intentionally. Yeah, living a life of intention, 57 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:10,080 or in other words, living a intentional life of purpose. Yeah. You know, we need to talk about 58 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:17,440 that. That's been on my heart a lot lately is how can I be more intentional in my life, living 59 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:24,160 an intention. It seems like that's a word that the prophets are using a lot these days. President 60 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:32,560 Nelson, I read a talk recently again by Elder Renland. Others are using that word and I love it. 61 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,920 I think I first really honed in on it when President Nelson talked about what it means to pray with 62 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:46,400 real intent. And I think that prayer is really kind of the key to living an intentional life. 63 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:56,160 And so I think it would be fun for us to do a prayer seminar and to talk about how a intentional 64 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:04,240 life is centered in our prayer life. And how is our prayer life? What can we do to improve our 65 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:12,080 prayer life? And, you know, do some things on that that would help us to strengthen our relationship 66 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:18,480 with Jesus Christ. So listeners, this would be a great time to get input from you. If you have 67 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,200 questions along those lines, or if you have thoughts or ideas or something that you would 68 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:28,720 like for us to address along the lines of prayer or living our lives with more intention, 69 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:34,960 don't hesitate to send us your requests or your comments. He redeems us at gmail.com, 70 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,480 still our email address. So don't hesitate to send us those if you like. 71 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:47,360 Well, so as let's talk today, Scott, about how I use the word advocate. And I've been thinking about, 72 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:55,280 you know, discussing with with you and sharing with our listeners what it kind of means 73 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:05,200 that that title, there's over a hundred titles, right, of Jesus, Lord, Redeemer, Savior, 74 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:13,600 friend. I love that title. I love the title of righteous is one of his titles. I love how 75 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:19,360 that's capitalized in a few places in the scriptures. I love all the titles of Jesus, 76 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:26,960 but I really, I really love the title advocate. And it's in the New Testament one time, it's in 77 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:34,480 the Doctrine and Covenants five times in the Book of Mormon once. So that's that's seven times in 78 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:41,920 the standard works, which I think is really sweet. I think it's also once not describing Jesus, but 79 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:49,840 it's also once in the Old Testament Deuteronomy. But I want to I want to just talk about Doctrine 80 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:58,160 Covenants section 45 today, verses three through five, and verse eight, talk about this for a minute, 81 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:05,040 and maybe break this down a little bit. I think this is really one of the real profound revelations 82 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:16,080 in the Doctrine and Covenants and one of the real gems of the Restoration. This section 45 is so 83 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:23,600 amazing. The prophet Joseph Smith, who has this revelation and Jesus is speaking in first person 84 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:31,920 to the Father, and it's in the present and then later he the prophet sees Joseph Smith or Joseph 85 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:41,840 Smith sees Jesus on the Mount of Olives with his disciples and he he envisions all of these things 86 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:49,360 in this section. I just think it's an amazing revelation and it's one of my favorite sections, 87 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:56,560 I think in the Doctrine and Covenants. So verse verses three through five, Scott, if you want to 88 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:03,840 read those please. You got it. So this is Doctrine and Covenants section 45. This is verse three, 89 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:10,960 beginning with verse three. Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father. Yeah, notice the word 90 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:18,080 with Scott. So right off the bat, I just want to say that, you know, sometimes people read this and 91 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:24,560 you get this wrong picture that Jesus is the good guy and the Father is kind of the hard guy, 92 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:32,560 good cop, bad cop here, and that Jesus is the merciful one and God is the God of justice. 93 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:40,480 Well, they're the same, right? He's advocating with the Father. They're having this conversation, 94 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:46,880 which I just think is so sweet that we get a glimpse of this and that they're both cheering us on. 95 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:53,680 They're both cheering for us. Jesus paid the price. Jesus is the one that suffered for our 96 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:59,120 sins. So of course, he's advocating with the Father. But I think it's significant and doesn't say 97 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:06,400 that he's advocating to the Father in our behalf. He's advocating with him. Yeah, you know, sometimes, 98 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:12,720 David, when you think of an advocate, I, most of what we do, we associate to what we relate to 99 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:18,640 and what we relate to in our culture as an advocate sometimes as an attorney and a law, 100 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:25,280 exactly, an attorney and a judge relationship. So when we think of Jesus in that way, 101 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:32,080 advocating for us, then we think he's like an attorney pleading our case to God who, 102 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:38,560 you know, in that scenario would be looking at reasons not to. But here, they're working together, 103 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:45,120 advocating together. It's a partnership in our behalf. I love that. Have you ever had to be 104 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:52,560 an advocate for somebody in court? I have. So have I. Yeah. My son. I had to, the attorney, 105 00:12:52,560 --> 00:13:01,200 his prosecuting or his defense attorney, he was being prosecuted and his defense attorney, 106 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:08,960 who was a public defender, right, came to me and said, Mr. Durfey, I really think 107 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:17,600 that Isaac would be blessed if you would advocate for him in court to the judge. And I remember 108 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:28,240 me thinking, wow, wow, what a responsibility to advocate for my son in front of the judge. 109 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,840 And I remember writing it out. Actually, I wrote it out because I didn't want to get all emotional 110 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:40,720 or lose my thought. And I put so much effort into that. Right. And it was really, it was really 111 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:47,920 kind of a life changing experience for me, Scott. And as I was advocating for my son 112 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:55,200 and saying things from my heart in the, in about the middle of it, I said something 113 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:03,600 about Isaac and he, Isaac was standing next to me with the defender on the other side of him. 114 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:14,400 And Isaac just fell down. He was so overcome by what I was saying about him. 115 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:24,480 Yeah. And so brokenhearted, you know, probably on his way to prison. And he just, literally, 116 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,280 he just fell down. Just collapsed. Yeah. Just collapsed. Yeah. Yeah. Fell down on the floor, 117 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:39,680 weeping. Overcome. And the, the, the suite happened to be a woman, public defender, reaching, 118 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:52,480 going down with him and helping him to stand back up. It was, it was, it was really an unbelievable 119 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:59,920 experience. So when I think of, of this experience that we get a glimpse of here of Jesus advocating 120 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:09,280 with the father, that's, that's kind of how I, yeah, advocating before the law or before the 121 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:19,520 court of justice, you know, that, hey, look, the father saying, I have a plan and he fulfilled it. 122 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:29,680 And he has suffered it. And the son saying, I've given everything I gave my all. I gave 123 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:38,000 blood for him that he doesn't have to perish. It's quite a picture. I mean, I've been there. 124 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,800 There's, there's something about that. I've done it twice, both times with people that I sponsor 125 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,960 in recovery. And both times went very well. But it, but it's interesting because it's like, 126 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:55,440 as that advocate, you know, the judge wanted to talk to me too, you know, wanted to know has so 127 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:01,520 and so, I mean, can you give me an overall feeling and, you know, talk, let's talk about their 128 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,560 doings, what has happened, what have they done? And it was almost, you know, being that advocate, 129 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:12,720 I almost felt a sense of responsibility as well. I mean, in fact, a huge sense of responsibility 130 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:19,760 to make sure that my advocation was accurate, was correct, was thorough, you know, and all of those 131 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,560 other things. Me being imperfect, I'm sure it wasn't any of those things to perfection. 132 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:31,280 But, you know, what a sweet experience we have to have that, you know, with our savior, but not, 133 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:36,400 but it's different because that judge that I was advocating for to that judge that you were 134 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:42,000 advocating to, right, it's a different scenario. You know, totally, totally. They're there, they're, 135 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:48,000 they're in partnership with the law. Yeah, my judge actually started to cry when I was advocating 136 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:57,040 for tears. He was wiping away his tears. And so was I and I collapsed on the floor. And 137 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,600 the sentence was three to five years because Isaac cannot repent it. 138 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,240 You know, I was advocating for him. It's a total different experience than what we're 139 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:16,480 reading about here in Dr. and Co. in section 45, is that all that he, all that Jesus did for us, 140 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,840 unless we receive it, which we're going to read about here in just a minute, 141 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:30,480 unless we receive it, it can't redeem us. So even though I was an advocate, 142 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:41,520 I, I, I want it, I would have been willing to try to suffer for Isaac, but I just, I couldn't. 143 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:49,680 Or all the suffering in the world wouldn't be enough because he had not done the things that he 144 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,520 knew that he should do. I mean, I mean, you know, this isn't the first time when you're going to 145 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,120 prison. Yeah, it's not the first time you've messed up, right? Right. Yeah. And he had been in jail 146 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:04,800 a couple of times before that. And so, you know, it was a totally different experience. But 147 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:12,000 anyway, whenever I read this about Jesus and the Father advocating, I think of that experience. 148 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,120 Well, let's go back to it. And I'll start at the very beginning again. And this is again, 149 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:23,600 Dr. and Co. in section 45, we're starting in verse three. Listen to him, who is the advocate with 150 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:30,240 the Father who is pleading your cause before him saying, Father, behold the suffering and the death 151 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:37,200 of him who did no sin, in whom now was well pleased, behold the blood of thy Son, which was shed, 152 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:43,600 the blood of him whom now gave us that thyself might be glorified. So let's, let's focus on the 153 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:52,400 blood here again, Scott. Twice, twice he mentions the blood. You know, our whole podcast has been 154 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:59,920 based upon redemption through the blood. We did a whole podcast, I think, on the significance 155 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:08,160 of blood and what blood means and the bleeding from every pore and the recurrence of that on the 156 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:16,240 cross. If there's any blood left. And all that that means this cleansing, the blood, which is 157 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:24,400 cleansing, which is healing and all the symbolism of the blood, it's so interesting that the Savior 158 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:32,240 uses that word twice to be an advocate for us, that it's through, it's through my blood, behold. 159 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:42,400 He says, look, look at my blood. He's, look at my blood, which was shed, the blood of him whom 160 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:54,880 now gave us to us, that he, the Father, may be glorified, meaning that he progresses as we progress. 161 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:04,480 That's the whole plan. So I just, it's the sufferings and death of him who did no sin. 162 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:11,920 The testimony, I mean, Jesus, I feel like when Jesus is saying that, he said, it wasn't easy, Father. 163 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:23,440 It was not easy for me. I suffered, I died, and I didn't sin. Now, again, we've made a whole big 164 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:30,480 deal out of that in a podcast, many podcasts ago, about the suffering of not sinning, how hard that 165 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:37,200 was for Jesus, not to sin, that no man knows temptation more than Jesus, because he never gave 166 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:44,800 into it. We always cut it short by giving into it. Nobody was tempted harder or longer or more 167 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:53,280 intensely than Jesus. And it's interesting that he focuses on that here. I suffered, I died, and I 168 00:20:53,280 --> 00:21:01,440 didn't sin. Now, of course, not just because that was hard for him and difficult for him, 169 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:10,000 and a sacrifice for him, but that it was a requirement of him to not sin, so that his 170 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:19,600 sacrifice could be a vicarious sacrifice for us, meaning, in other words, meeting all of the demands 171 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:25,920 of justice in our behalf. If he would have committed one little sin, it would have been done. 172 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:32,080 Commission or omission, then he would have been suffering for himself, and not for you, not for 173 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,240 me. And then we can go to 2 Nephi 7 through 9 to see what would have happened. Everything would have 174 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:42,640 just gone back to its original state, and we as spirit entities at that point, because our body 175 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:49,280 would have just gone back to its original state, ashes per ashes, dust per dust. We would become 176 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:54,960 subject to the devil. And we would then become subject to the devil, the father of lies. 177 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:04,160 Anyway, and then we go verse 5, verse 5, wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on 178 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:10,320 my name. Now, that's different, David, than we've talked about this. Believing on my name, we're 179 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:18,560 talking about a covenant relationship now. Yes, yes. Faith in Christ is one thing. Faith in the name 180 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:26,400 of Jesus Christ is another. It's deeper. Faith, we know faith is action. We know faith is power. 181 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:35,520 But faith in the name of Jesus Christ is a covenant. We are taking upon ourselves a covenant 182 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:43,440 in his name. And we have faith and trust in that covenant. And we have a relationship. We not only 183 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:49,760 have faith in him, we have a relationship with him. That's what faith in the name means. That's 184 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,800 what it means to believe in his name. We believe in this covenant relationship. 185 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,320 I think this is interesting, this next part of that sentence. I'm going to read the whole thing 186 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:06,880 again, but then I'll point it out. Wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on my name, 187 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:13,120 that they may come unto me and have everlasting life. You know, so often we say, in fact, 188 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,640 we've made the invitation multiple times in the course of this podcast, David, where we say, you 189 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,440 know, that's really what he wants us to do. Just come to me. Just come to me. And there's so many 190 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,480 different ways we can come to him. We don't have to have entered into a covenant relationship 191 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:35,680 in order for us to initiate coming to him. But it seems to me that he's saying here that to fully 192 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:41,280 come unto me, faith in my name is really important. To have a relationship with him. In order to have 193 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:48,480 that relationship, which also extends into eternal or will have everlasting life with him, 194 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:56,800 in order for us to fully come to him, to fully receive the blessings, the relief, all of that. 195 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:04,400 And to become a joint heir with him. Then that relationship must be a covenant relationship. 196 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:13,440 That requires a covenant, which is faith in his name. We have taken upon ourselves his name. 197 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:24,080 And faith in that process means we have received ordinances and covenants that tie us to him. 198 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:32,160 And every Sunday we get that beautiful reminder as we partake of the sacrament and renew that 199 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:38,160 covenant. All covenants then are renewed. Correct. Are renewed. I had an interesting 200 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,080 conversation. I'm in a side track for just a second here, but I had a really interesting 201 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:48,080 conversation with the person in recovery. For whatever reason, I started talking to this person 202 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:55,680 and we were talking about recovery. And it was female and she said to me, she said, 203 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:02,880 are you LDS? And I said, yeah. And she said, so am I. She grew up in the area and I asked her to 204 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:08,960 what degree her participation was at this point and various things and not. But she had been 205 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,160 through the temple. She had entered into a covenant relationship and but was going through some really 206 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:20,000 difficult times by decisions that she made and others that she didn't, but really difficult 207 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,760 times. And I asked her, so how does that work with you? I know how it worked with me. I'm interested 208 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,720 always to know with other people because much of my problems had come after I had been to the temple, 209 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,720 after I had entered into multiple covenants with my Heavenly Father, as had she. And I asked her 210 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,160 about that. And I said, how did that reconcile you when you were going through those darkest of 211 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,480 times? And she said, Scott, you know what? I could fill my covenants pulling me through. 212 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:54,320 She said, I broke my covenants. Heavenly Father didn't break his. I broke my covenants. And I 213 00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:00,320 know, and she said this, and I know that because of the redemption of Jesus, this is in an AA meeting. 214 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,560 After, not in the meeting, but after the meeting, she says, I know that because of my covenant 215 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:12,800 relationship with my Heavenly Father and because of the law of repentance and all of that I get 216 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,040 to participate in, I know that my covenants were pulling me through. That's faith in the name of 217 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,800 Jesus Christ right there, David. That's really sweet. Thanks, Scott, for sharing it. And I just 218 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:30,880 think so many people who are in the church and that are church centered and not Christ centered, 219 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:40,880 that they see covenants as tying themselves to the church or another list of things that they 220 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:48,160 have to do in order to earn eternal life. Well, on one side, and yet on the other side, a list of 221 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:57,040 things that I can do that other people will see that I'm living my life the way. Yeah. And I just 222 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:04,480 think that's the wrong way to see it. I know that covenants are not another checklist of things to 223 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:14,800 do. That covenants are a gift, are a blessing that ties us to Jesus Christ, and that by participating 224 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:22,960 fully in those ordinances and covenants, we do come unto Him. We have a personal relationship with Him, 225 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:31,360 and we can't ever earn that or earn eternal life, but it puts us in a place to receive 226 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:39,600 the power of godliness in our life because of the relationship, not because of another 227 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,120 long list of things I have to do. You just said something that might slide by people, 228 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:51,920 and I'm going to call it back. You said we need to receive. Talk about receiving. 229 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:58,080 Well, okay, we got to read verse eight. This is verse eight, Scott. You want to read it or 230 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:05,680 you want me to read it? Go ahead. Verse eight, same section, section 45. I came unto my own, 231 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:15,120 and my own received me not, but unto as many as received me gave I power to do many miracles 232 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:22,960 and to become the sons of God. That means, we all know we're sons and daughters of God, 233 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:30,800 but to be the sons of God means that you're redeemed, that you go home to God, that you 234 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:38,960 live in your heavenly home as a family. That's what it means to believe on His name 235 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:45,360 and to become the sons of God means that we're redeemed. And even unto them that believed on 236 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:55,680 my name gave I power to obtain eternal life. That's a gift that is given to us. It is not 237 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:03,920 something that we earn. And we're not talking about living forever here. Eternal life does not mean 238 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,640 that we become immortalized. That's a gift that all men will receive because of the resurrection. 239 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:15,280 Right. Eternal life means that we have been become joint heirs. God's life. His life. 240 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:21,120 Celestial life. And we know. Yeah, that's right. DNC, Doctrine and Covenants 14-7. 241 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:28,480 Eternal life is the greatest gift of all the gifts. It's not something you earn. It must be 242 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:38,720 received as a gift. You know, Scott, I had an experience many years ago. It was actually given 243 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:46,640 to me. I want to kind of teach it today, maybe as a parable, but it was given to me as a dream. 244 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:56,240 And it was on the night of my birthday, the night after my birthday. So it was on March 4th, 1994. 245 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:04,880 I had been searching and praying. And I was really trying at that point in time in my life 246 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:12,480 to really connect to the Savior, to understand how the gospel works. More specifically, 247 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,440 to understand how repentance works. To understand how the Atonement of Jesus Christ 248 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,560 worked in my life, in the life of my family, and in all of those that I taught. And we were living 249 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,440 in Minnesota at the time. And I was coordinating seminaries and institutes and traveling throughout 250 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:38,000 the state of Minnesota. And I had in mind my prison brother, David, who we had kind of adopted. 251 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,440 I told this story in an earlier podcast. And I wanted to understand that the Atonement was there 252 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:51,840 for David. And I was just really wrestling with this and had been for months, if not years. 253 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,600 Yeah. I've watched you wrestle with this for years. So it really is. Yeah. Yeah. I think it, 254 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:05,280 that whole wrestle really started on my mission. I think that wrestle started on Parker Mountain. 255 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Well, probably on Parker Mountain. Yeah. Yeah, you're probably right. 256 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,800 Right before my mission, trying to work out my own repentance. Yeah. Yeah. 257 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:23,360 Yeah. Anyway, this is, this was given to me as a gift, as a birthday gift, 258 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:35,200 on March 4, 1994. And in this, in this experience, I was given a, I was given some tickets. 259 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:43,760 They were free to an event that I knew that I could never afford to purchase these tickets 260 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:54,160 to this event because I was, you know, in a seminary salary, I was, I was just, I was overcome with, 261 00:31:54,160 --> 00:32:01,840 with the just gratitude by this individual who gave me these gifts, these, these tickets. 262 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:10,720 And we were so excited and we looked forward for weeks to go to this event as a family. And 263 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:18,560 the day came and I, I loaded all of my family in our little white van and we were driving over to 264 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:25,280 the event and I, I told my sweetheart, I'm going to drop you and the kids off at the, at the venue. 265 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:35,360 And you go in, I gave them each their ticket and you, you go in and, and, and I'll, I'll get back 266 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,600 here as soon as I can. I'll go park the car and I'll come back as soon as I can. And I, I watched 267 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:47,600 them as my wife gave them their tickets, the children and they're going into the event and 268 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:56,000 they disappear. And then I, I go to find a place to park. And I'm really discouraged pretty quickly 269 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:02,320 because I can't find a place to park anywhere. The parking lot is completely full, which is 270 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:08,400 shocking to me because we went way early. I wanted to enjoy the whole event and go way early, get 271 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,960 there early. And I couldn't find, I, it was packed. It was already packed. I couldn't find a parking 272 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:21,600 space anywhere. And I went outside the parking lot and I started to go down all the side streets. 273 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:28,080 It was kind of like spokes of a wheel. And I, I kept going down all these side streets and that, 274 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:34,240 and there was nothing Scott. There was no place where I could park my car. And I finally decided, 275 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,160 okay, I'm just going to have to go to the four lane highway. Then I'm just going to have to go as 276 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:44,240 far as I have to go to get to park my car, which was a long ways away from where I dropped off my 277 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:50,480 family. And I started to go down this and I was, I couldn't believe it. There were cars parked on 278 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:57,520 both sides of the road. I couldn't find a parking place and I was going 55 miles an hour to try to 279 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:07,040 get to the end of these lines, these, these, this line of cars that were parked. And so discouraged 280 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:18,000 and going further and further and further away. And finally a man came out of nowhere, appeared on 281 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:25,520 the island in, in the middle of the road and got my attention was waving me down with his arms. 282 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:32,720 I was on the inside lane and he waved me down and I slowed down and he pointed across the street to a 283 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:40,960 parking spot, which I would have completely missed. And he went like this with his, he motioned with 284 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:49,840 his hand. To do like a U turn, to do a U turn, turn around, turn around. And so I turned around, 285 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:56,640 and so I turned around, found the nearest place where I could flip a U turn and went back and he 286 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:03,760 helped me park my car. I parked my car. I got out. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I couldn't 287 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:09,520 thank him enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I started to run to be back with my family. 288 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:15,600 I was afraid I was already going to be late and I started to run and I thought, okay, I don't know 289 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,440 if I'm going to get there in time. Maybe I can take a shortcut. There were these, this was kind of a 290 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:27,520 strange part of the, the dream for me, but there were these white, steep hills, nothing growing on 291 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:33,280 them. It was like white dust on these hills. And I thought, if I just go up over these hills, 292 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:40,800 I can take a shortcut. I can get there quicker. So I tried to run up this hill and I slipped and I 293 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:48,640 slid face down all the way to the bottom. And I tried walking up it and I slipped and I slid 294 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:57,360 face down all the way to the bottom. Scott, I tried last time to crawl up this hill and I slipped 295 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:07,360 and I slid face down to the bottom. I was, I was so discouraged and I thought, oh no, 296 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:17,280 I'm not going to make it. I kind of leaned over and was, had my hands standing but had my hands on 297 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:24,560 my knees leaning over and felt impressed to look up and I looked up down the road. And I could see 298 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:32,320 down the road a man who about two blocks away walked right up the hill. And I think, how did he do 299 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:40,560 that? How did he do that? And I took off on the run and as I got closer to where I had seen this 300 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:52,800 man go up the hill, I, I saw it. I saw it and there was an iron rod on the hill. And all of a 301 00:36:52,800 --> 00:37:02,720 sudden I started to think about what this was all about. And I took hold of the iron rod and I 302 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:10,000 walked up the hill. And as soon as I got up the hill, I saw the place where I had dropped off my 303 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:17,440 family. And it was like I was there. I could see it and it was like I was transported there. 304 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:28,960 And as I'm approaching the gate where I had seen my family go in and there's nobody around, 305 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:39,680 I know I'm late. And as I approached the gate, I reached for my ticket in my back pocket 306 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:54,560 where I placed it. And the ticket is gone. There's no ticket. I reach, I check all my pockets. 307 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:02,240 I'm reaching for, I'm reaching for all of my, you know, looking for my ticket. 308 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:11,680 And it's gone. I look, I look back, try to look back where I've walked, can't see it. 309 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:20,240 I know I can't go back. The one thing that is clear in my mind is you can't go back to where you were. 310 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:29,440 You can't go back. And as I'm thinking that thought looks still 311 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:37,520 desperate, I see two individuals walking towards me. Quite a ways off, 312 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:46,880 a thousand feet or more. And as they get closer to me, I can, I can tell it's a father and a son. 313 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:56,000 And as they come closer to me, I see the father holding all these tickets. 314 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,120 He's got, he's got a handful of tickets and they're kind of in fan shape in his hand, 315 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:08,000 the shape of a fan. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm just going to stand here really quiet. 316 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,680 And as soon as he gets close to me, I'm going to, I'm going to try to grab one of those tickets. 317 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:21,920 That's how desperate I was. And as, as they approached me, 318 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:37,520 I lunged, literally lunged, jumped to try to grab a ticket. And the father just kind of moved his hand 319 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:44,320 to the side like he was anticipating this. And I fell flat on my face. 320 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:55,040 And there on the ground, laid out flat. I hear this is the most, this was the most 321 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:03,680 sacred and reverent part of the whole experience for me was that I hear the voice of the sun. 322 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:17,440 And I can't begin to duplicate it, but it was just so meek. It was just so mild. 323 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,720 And the, the, the sun said, 324 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:42,400 dad, we have enough. We have enough. Would they, would they give me one? Would they give me a ticket? 325 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:53,440 And I turned and I looked up and I saw the father take a ticket and hand it to the sun. 326 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,600 And the son reached it down to me. 327 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:10,160 I took the ticket. The son helped me up. He lifted me up face to face. Now 328 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:20,400 I look into his eyes. I know there's nothing I can say. There is no words that can express 329 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,040 the gratitude and feelings of my heart. Scott, 330 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,880 I take the ticket. I turn and I walk through the gate. 331 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:43,440 I woke up. It was four or something AM and I woke up my sweetheart next to me. 332 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:50,480 And I said, Chris, I've just had a really significant experience. 333 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,320 And I had to tell her the whole experience and I told her my dream. 334 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:09,040 And as I continued to ponder it that morning, there were, there were things that I won't share today. 335 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:22,800 Or really publicly that, that I learned in that dream about myself or about how it really works, 336 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:35,680 how it all works. But this, this is what I knew. It's a gift. The ticket was free. 337 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:47,040 There was nothing I could do, no price I could pay, not enough I could give to earn that gift. 338 00:42:47,040 --> 00:43:01,040 What I had to do was I had to get myself back to a place where I could receive it after I had lost it. 339 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:08,720 I think we've all been redeemed from children on up, but we lose it as we sin. And when we sin, 340 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:14,160 we're going 55 miles an hour down a four lane highway to who knows where, 341 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:23,440 away from the presence of God, away from being with him and our families. That's what we do when we sin. 342 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:31,440 And our desired destination. And a man comes out. I don't know who that man was. I have, 343 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:38,560 I have some thoughts about who that man was who came out and got my attention and told me to turn 344 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:48,000 around. Might have been a bishop, a teacher, a parent, somebody who had been placed there by God 345 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:55,440 to help me turn around. Then I turned around and I faced the other direction. 346 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:08,400 Help me to park. And I learned there are no shortcuts, but a man showed me the iron rod. 347 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:18,240 I think I know who that man was who showed me the iron rod, the word of God. And as soon as I took 348 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:28,480 hold of it and went up the hill, there it was, like the tree of life. There it was where I needed 349 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:36,000 to be, where I wanted to be the love of God and to be with my family. And I was there. 350 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:49,200 There was grace and mercy all along the way. And I get there and it's still not enough. 351 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:59,680 I've lost my ticket. There is nothing I can do to earn my way. 352 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:06,880 And you worked hard to get up that hill to no avail, to run. I mean, all of the, 353 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:12,960 all of the, all of the descriptors that you've used, David, to kind of talk about your arriving. 354 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,440 And this isn't the first time I've heard this experience, but every time I hear it, it's, 355 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:23,520 it impacts me so much because you worked your tail off to get there. Even all that work. 356 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:32,720 It was not easy. You couldn't work it. And it wasn't enough. And the father holding the tickets. 357 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:47,040 And so sweet when I heard that voice, we have enough. We have enough 358 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:57,840 as a suggestion or advocating for me to the father and the father so willing and happy 359 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:07,680 to hand the son the ticket and him reach it down to me, pick me up and me to fill his love. 360 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:23,600 I, I, Scott, we, all we can do is qualify ourselves to receive the gift by repenting 361 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:35,040 by exercising our faith in Christ, the desires of our hearts and receiving the ticket and having this, 362 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:45,280 having this relationship with him that he gives us the gift. I, I was, I wanted to make sure that, 363 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:54,320 that this wasn't just a dream. I wanted to, I shared this with a couple of people before I 364 00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,320 ever shared it with anyone else. And that was a stake president who I really loved, 365 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:06,800 President Brown in Minnesota. And he, he encouraged me. He says, well, you're friends with, 366 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,240 with Robert Matthews. Why don't you, why don't you talk to brother Matthews about it? 367 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,600 And so I called brother Matthews, you know, brother Matthews. We've talked about, I think, 368 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:21,200 on these podcasts who wrote the Bible dictionary and I had this sweet little relationship with him. 369 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:28,720 And I called him up and I said, brother Matthews, I had this experience. And can I share it with you? 370 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:34,960 And then you just tell me your thoughts and make sure that I'm doctrinally not off. 371 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,800 And I shared it with him and it was kind of really emotional for me then. And, 372 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:50,640 and he just listened the whole time. And when I was through, I said, so is there, 373 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,920 doctrinally, how do you feel about this? And, and he's, he just said to me, 374 00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:05,520 thank you very much, David, for sharing that with me. That is how I have always seen it. 375 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:13,520 That's how I have always seen it. He said, and then he said, it reminds me of this scripture. 376 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:21,520 So I'm going to turn to Dr. and Covenant section 88, Scott. And we've talked about, 377 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:28,480 you have to receive it. It's free, but you have to receive it. You have to get yourself, 378 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,760 qualify yourself to be in a position to receive it. And that takes effort. 379 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:44,160 So section 88, Scott, and I'd like to read it, verses 32 and 33. And brother Matthews read this to 380 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:54,000 me over the phone. And they who this is describing the resurrections, different levels of resurrection. 381 00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:06,400 And this is describing those who are resurrected last, actually, the, the individuals who will go to 382 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:15,360 a place of no glory, outer darkness. Verse 32, and they who remain shall also be quickened. 383 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:21,520 They'll be resurrected. Nevertheless, they, these are the sons and daughters of perdition, 384 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:28,160 they shall return again to their own place to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, 385 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:37,440 because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received. And brother Matthews, 386 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:44,160 when he read that, I remember him telling me, so, so David, sons of perdition are going 55 miles an 387 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:51,280 hour away from you, from God, and they won't turn back. It's not that they can't. And it's not that 388 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:59,440 God doesn't try to help them turn back. They won't turn back. They won't turn around. They won't 389 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:06,320 make their way back. They want nothing to do with it. And they go 55 miles an hour for hundreds of 390 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:17,840 miles away from God. And then verse 33, this, this is, I don't know, maybe one of the most significant 391 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:26,800 scriptures in my life. For what does it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he 392 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:38,800 receive not the gift? Or in my case in dream, or he lose the gift? I lost the ticket. Behold, he 393 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:48,560 rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift. 394 00:50:50,800 --> 00:51:01,600 It's not so much the gifts, God. It's the giver of the gift that we reject. We don't just reject 395 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:13,040 the gift. We reject the giver of the gift. That is the greatest sin of all. And what we do in the 396 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:20,880 gospel of Jesus Christ is we try to have a relationship with that giver of the gift to try 397 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:27,520 to qualify and put ourselves in a position, a place, where we can have that relationship, 398 00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:39,600 where we can hear the voice of the advocate. Dad, we have enough, and we look to him, 399 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:49,120 to the Son who receives from the Father all the power, all of the gift of mercy and grace, 400 00:51:49,120 --> 00:52:04,000 because of his sacrifice and suffering to offer it to us. And he helps us all along the way. 401 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:16,560 It's not easy, Scott, obtaining redemption to experience salvation and eternal life, 402 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:29,680 but it really is simple. It really is simple. And I'm really thankful for the gift of God's Son 403 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:40,240 and the gift that the Son has offered us, the gift of redemption. And if we don't receive 404 00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:49,280 redemption, Scott, here and now, I don't think you have to die to have this experience. That was 405 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:57,440 one of the parts of the dream. That wasn't just a depiction of eternal life. That was a parable 406 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:07,360 for me to know that I could receive it now. And if we don't receive it and qualify ourselves to 407 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:20,960 receive the gift, we reject the giver of the gift. And that's the great sin. So I hope that 408 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:32,640 our listeners will, in the spirit that I'm feeling, sharing it, a sacred experience for me, that I 409 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:43,520 offer that as a gift to you who are listening. It's something of a gift that you might be able to 410 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:54,800 see the gospel system, the gospel of Jesus Christ as a system of receiving gifts. The plan of redemption 411 00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:02,800 is the process of just receiving the gift of redemption and eternal life in our life. That's 412 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:08,960 how it works, Scott. That's how repentance and the Atonement work. That's the kind of relationship 413 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:14,720 they have with each other, that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is there for us. But we have to place 414 00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:21,920 ourselves in a position through repentance to receive it. And that repentance in that story 415 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:28,720 was the turning around the car. It was turning around the car with the aid of somebody to do 416 00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:35,840 that. You know, what a gift, Dave. That the gift that you received was beyond measure for you. 417 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:44,400 That was life-changing for me, Scott. It answered all of my questions that I had been wrestling with. 418 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:51,200 And through that gift, we can also be gifted. So thank you for sharing that. 419 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:58,720 Here's going to be my invitation. I invite us all to listen again or revisit some of the important 420 00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:05,920 points of David's story. My first exposure to that was that he has this written and I was able to 421 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:12,800 read that. And you know, there are lessons. There are things in this dream, in this story that Dave 422 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:18,560 has just shared with us that can be life-changing if we allow them to be. You know, we began our 423 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:25,360 podcast today talking about and reading from the Scripture. And one of the invitations or comments 424 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:31,840 in that was they that come unto me and have everlasting life. Wherefore, Father, spare these, 425 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:38,240 my brethren, that believe on my name, that they may come unto me and have everlasting life. 426 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:45,200 And I think that for all of us, there may be more. In fact, there's definitely sure to be more for 427 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:51,600 us individually. But for all of us collectively, we can take a look at this and ask ourselves some 428 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:58,800 important questions. And those questions can include, what am I doing to move towards? What am I doing 429 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:06,240 to come unto him? And in my which directions, which direction am I facing? Yeah, am I going, 430 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:11,760 am I going 55 miles an hour down a four-lane highway? Am I going maybe 10 miles an hour down 431 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:18,960 one of the cross streets? Which which direction am I going? And how fast am I going? And what's it 432 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:25,680 going to take? Or who's it going to take to help me to turn around? And then when I'm coming to him, 433 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,640 and in the dream, you didn't know you were coming to him, we have that vantage point from our from 434 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:38,400 where we sit and seeing this dream. But in coming to him, it was difficult until you followed the 435 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:47,840 right person to the right path. And so often in our own lives, we try to just pick our own path 436 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:54,240 for various reasons. And I won't get into all of those, you can, you know what they are. 437 00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:58,960 Well, and that path Scott, thank you for bringing that up because there was a little path, it was a 438 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:07,040 green. By the rod. I didn't add this, but there was a green little path, grassy little path. 439 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:16,080 Up the powdery mountain. Up this weird, strange, white powdered, dusty mountain. And it was, 440 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:23,120 that was the covenant path. Yeah. And taking hold of that iron rod. Yeah. And that cup walking on 441 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:32,800 that covenant path almost transported me to the place where I needed to be. So your your desire 442 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:40,880 in this dream was to get somewhere to be with my family forever. And and in order for you to receive 443 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:48,960 that gift, receive that gift, you had to do certain things. It wasn't those things that gave you the 444 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:56,080 gift. It weren't though. It wasn't those things that made that gift available to you in and of 445 00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:02,160 themselves. But they were a part of a process that you went through to receive that gift in this 446 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:09,440 dream, the gift above all gifts. And that's how this is for us. That gift is for us. It's free. 447 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:18,800 We qualify for it, which enables us and requires us effort from us in many ways. And we won't get 448 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:26,320 into all that now for the sake of time. But but I think David, if we focus on and I think this 449 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:32,400 for me is what I'm going to take from what we talked about this week as we end our podcast now, 450 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:40,320 I'm going to take what am I doing to come to him? And what am I doing? And we read this, you know, 451 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:46,640 to believe on my name that they may come to me. What am I doing in my covenants? How's my covenant 452 00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:52,640 path? Yeah, what am I doing to enhance my covenants? What am I doing to separate me from them? What am 453 00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:59,600 I not doing that I need to do a better job? What is the level of my faith in Christ? Or 454 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:06,000 what is the level of my faith in the name of Christ? Yeah. 455 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:14,080 There there is a difference. And before we conclude, Scott, you know, I usually would not share my 456 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,920 experience with all my students over the many years I taught after having that experience. 457 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:27,440 And I would usually try to teach the same the same principle about receiving the gift and that 458 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:35,360 that redemption is free. By the way, Lehi says that in second Nephi chapter two, he says salvation is 459 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:43,920 free. Or redemption is free. It's not just talking about the resurrection. That's talking about being 460 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:50,640 born again. That talks about spiritual and physical redemption. Anyway, to teach this to my students, 461 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:59,680 I would often use this analogy. I would say, so I'm going to give you a completely paid, 462 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:12,160 paid free gift for a full all expenses paid trip to Hawaii. What will you do to get there? 463 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:21,440 What it's all paid for the airlines, whatever you whatever vehicle you want to use a ship, 464 01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,720 if you want to go on a cruise, if you want to take the the flight, I'm going to pay for it. 465 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:32,240 It's all paid for. But I got some stuff to do to get ready for that. Even though it's free, 466 01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:37,040 even though that trip is free, that gift is free, I still have sacrifices I need to make. 467 01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,960 I need to make arrangements at work. So that's what I would ask my students. This is the discussion 468 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:46,560 we'd have. You're going to you're going right where I would want my students to go is I would 469 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:55,280 ask them so so what are you going to do? What are you going to do to receive the gift? And they 470 01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:00,240 would say, well, I got to get time squared away with work. I'm going to have to figure out a 471 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:05,200 luggage situation. I'm going to have to figure out how to get to the airport or wherever I'm 472 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:10,000 going to transport me to there. I'm going to have to make arrangements to feed my horses. 473 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:16,640 You know, and on and on and on it goes. There's some work. There's some sacrifice. It's free. 474 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:23,440 But I have to do things in order to qualify to receive that free trip. Exactly. 475 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:30,000 That's it. Scott. And that's how this goes. That's how it is. That's how this goes. That's the plan 476 01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:39,120 or system of redemption. Sure changes things. It sure changes things for for us. It's not easy. 477 01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:46,480 It's not easy, but it's sure simple. And it's and it's not just even if it wasn't completely simple, 478 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:51,520 which it is, I agree. But even if it wasn't, it'd still be worth a little work to get to that 479 01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:59,040 freedom. Who wouldn't receive the gifts? God, I know. I know. Well, who wouldn't receive this gift? 480 01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,160 Yeah. Well, there's been times in my life, David, when I wasn't receiving that gift. 481 01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,280 And there's been times in a lot of our lives when we just don't receive that gift. And I think we 482 01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:14,560 get confused. We let the enemy into our lives and and on and on. And we could, you know, I could go 483 01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:20,400 on and on a lot longer about that as well. But the point is, is that the gift is there. It's free 484 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:26,480 for all of us. We do need to receive it. And and ultimately, this is the point. 485 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:37,920 Who especially think about this this time of year, right? Who is there out there? Who is not willing 486 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:46,240 to put themselves in a position to qualify so that they can rejoice? 487 01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:58,000 I'm 88 verse 33. So that they can rejoice in him. Who is the giver of the gift? 488 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:07,360 Scott, that experience of looking into the eyes of the Savior, of hearing his voice, 489 01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:20,480 of being in their presence completely, completely changed me. I could never forever be the same 490 01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:27,760 after that. Who is who is there? It's it's not just about the gift. It's about the giver 491 01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:36,960 of the gift. And who is there who is not willing to rejoice in the giver of the gift and have that 492 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:46,960 relationship with him? That's the ultimate question that I think we should all ponder. 493 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:54,480 And I agree. Let that be our charge this week. Let us consider, you know, what we're doing and 494 01:03:54,480 --> 01:04:00,800 what we're not doing that can help us get it or that is keeping us away from it. But that gift 495 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:07,440 is ours. It's there for us to receive. And may we rejoice in him who is the giver of the gift 496 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:14,000 this week. You know, this is a time when we think a lot about gifts, Scott. It's Christmas, 497 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,680 time of the year, and gifts seem to be the center of it. And the gift of God's Son, 498 01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:29,040 the gift that the Father offers us. Really, is he's the ultimate giver of the gift, 499 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:41,360 which is the Son who gifts us eternal life? What a marvelous time of the year 500 01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:52,640 in season in our life, wherever we're at in our life to ponder, have I received the gift? And 501 01:04:52,640 --> 01:05:01,680 do I rejoice in the givers, Father and Son and Holy Ghost of the gift in my life? And I hope 502 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,120 that this Christmas season, we can all rejoice in that. 503 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:10,400 Me too. Hey, thanks for being with us, everybody. Another great podcast. We've got a lot of great 504 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:16,320 things coming up. We you probably heard already an interview. We've got a couple more coming up. 505 01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:22,000 And then as we mentioned, we do have that focus that we plan to do at the beginning of the year. 506 01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:27,760 Beginning with kind of a focus on prayer. Hey, Dave, thanks for being with us again. As always, 507 01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:34,320 it's great to be together and do this. Thank you. Merry Christmas to everybody. And happy new year. 508 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:44,240 And thank you for the blessing that I know that this is for me and my life, Scott, to be able to 509 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:51,120 share these experiences with my family and others through this process and means. And 510 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:57,760 I'm really grateful for that. And maybe just feel like it's appropriate today to express my love for 511 01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:05,760 my Heavenly Father and for Jesus Christ and to testify that I know that they live and that 512 01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:16,800 they have done everything, everything and then some to provide us with eternal life and redemption 513 01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:26,000 in this life. And I testify that I know that's true by the experiences that I've had, but especially 514 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:34,080 because of the power and the gift of the Holy Ghost in my life. I knew that that dream 515 01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:41,600 and experience had come to me as a gift from the Holy Ghost, that the Holy Ghost had provided that 516 01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:48,880 experience for me, something as a birthday gift as a result of many years of a personal 517 01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:59,360 wrestle. And I praise and thank God for that and say all of that in the holy name of Jesus Christ. 518 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:06,640 Amen. Thanks, David. Have a great week, everybody. Remember, you have been redeemed through his 519 01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:12,560 blood. Do all that you can to receive this gift through the gift of the Holy Ghost, a gift providing 520 01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:18,800 a gift and what a gift that will be for all of us. One opportunity that we all have to receive 521 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:23,760 the gift that's choice above all other gifts. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next week. 522 01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:40,880 Have a great week, everybody.