Alright, hey everybody. Here we are again. This is Scott. Got David here with me. Hey, Dave.
Yeah, so good to be here, Scott. What a great time of the year, huh? Yeah, such a great time of the
year. Right in the holiday season. So much to be grateful for and look forward to and celebrate.
Let's try to finish off the year strong and look forward to a new year and all the great things
that goes with that. And I also, my heart really goes out, Scott, to those who have such a hard time
this time of year. I always think about that. I guess I learned that really intimately,
you know, being a bishop and some of the lonely people and for those who have those challenges
or who are alone or it just seems like this season can also magnify any loneliness or adversity
that individuals are going through. So it's the best of times and it's the worst of times, I guess.
Yeah, it really is. You know, this time of year, and I begin to see it already, it's probably not
early. It feels like it's early to be seeing this. But this time of year in the rooms of Recovery,
Dave, we see a lot of just intense despair, you know, coming through. Like you said, it seems to
just kind of amplify what's going on. And so if things are good, it can amplify that. But if things
are just really kind of bad for people, that can seem amplified as well. And that amplification can
cause a lot of despair, a lot of discouragement, a lot of sadness this time, a lot of loneliness.
So many, so many sad things too, even in the world this time of year, you know.
But Scott, and I don't want to minimize the loneliness and despair others feel at all. But
oh, if we could all just know that wherever we go, or whatever condition in life we're at,
or place it in life we're at, that the Savior is with us. The Savior is cheering for us.
He's advocating for us. That He's with us. I just wish that myself and all of us could just really
deepen our relationship with Jesus Christ. And this is the perfect time of the year to really do
that, you know, to contemplate His birth and His life and His death. Remembering President Hinckley
said there'd be no Christmas. If it were not for Easter, we should think about Easter in Christmas,
in the season of Christmas. We should think about Christmas at the time of Easter. We should always
be thinking about Jesus Christ. And if we have a relationship with Him, Scott, and we have the
Holy Ghost with us, a Comforter, companion, administering the gifts, blessings, mercy, grace,
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. Again, I can't ever judge and wouldn't want to
trade places with anybody. But wow, it could really be a season of light, a season of warmth,
a season of joy and peace. It would seem like for anybody who had a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I mean, it is a time when ultimately, you know, we'll be
celebrating His birth. And I'm with you. I love Christmas for all that it is and all that it means,
especially as it relates to the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
At Easter, that's it for me. That's really where I feel that, and I'm grateful that we have Christmas
again. But you know, that Easter season, when we really celebrate the sacrifice, the bitter cup,
the descending below all things, you know, that's really what gives Christmas, because I've had those
Christmases. I've had those Christmases that were lonely. I remember my first Christmas,
recently divorced. My kids were not with me. I was drinking like crazy. And I just remember that
I ate Christmas Eve, sitting in my home alone, my apartment alone, and just being super sad.
But the very next Christmas, my conditions hadn't changed much except that I was in recovery now.
And I was working on a relationship with my higher power as a second step in recovery. I was
working on that relationship with Jesus. And it was a different Christmas. You know, I was still
alone. Yeah, I wasn't drinking anymore, but I was still alone. I nothing in my life had changed much,
except for now I had the spirit in my life a little more. Yeah, and it made a huge difference.
So yeah, we're looking forward to that. Encourage everybody to do what you need to do to walk with
him during this period of time. Even those of us who are celebrating wonderful things in our lives,
and few challenges, relatively speaking. Christmas is never really Christmas if we don't walk with
the Savior through Christmas. Yeah. I think we should, you know, we started this podcast, Scott,
doing Easter. I think we should do a podcast. I was going to say maybe we should end it with
Christmas, but I think we'll continue through the new year. But we should do a special podcast
in the next week or so on Christmas and really look at the events of Christmas and the application of
some of those Christmas stories in our life here now. I think that'd be wonderful. People have asked
for that already. As I've talked to people, they've asked, are you going to be doing that? And I've
kind of told them, yeah, I think tentatively we will be. So let's also talk about what we talked
about earlier, Dave. Beginning in January, I think we're going to plan on doing sort of a series,
a seminar almost, if you will. And, you know, we can call it whatever we want, but it'll be,
it's sort of focused on living our lives more intentionally. Yeah, living a life of intention,
or in other words, living a intentional life of purpose. Yeah. You know, we need to talk about
that. That's been on my heart a lot lately is how can I be more intentional in my life, living
an intention. It seems like that's a word that the prophets are using a lot these days. President
Nelson, I read a talk recently again by Elder Renland. Others are using that word and I love it.
I think I first really honed in on it when President Nelson talked about what it means to pray with
real intent. And I think that prayer is really kind of the key to living an intentional life.
And so I think it would be fun for us to do a prayer seminar and to talk about how a intentional
life is centered in our prayer life. And how is our prayer life? What can we do to improve our
prayer life? And, you know, do some things on that that would help us to strengthen our relationship
with Jesus Christ. So listeners, this would be a great time to get input from you. If you have
questions along those lines, or if you have thoughts or ideas or something that you would
like for us to address along the lines of prayer or living our lives with more intention,
don't hesitate to send us your requests or your comments. He redeems us at gmail.com,
still our email address. So don't hesitate to send us those if you like.
Well, so as let's talk today, Scott, about how I use the word advocate. And I've been thinking about,
you know, discussing with with you and sharing with our listeners what it kind of means
that that title, there's over a hundred titles, right, of Jesus, Lord, Redeemer, Savior,
friend. I love that title. I love the title of righteous is one of his titles. I love how
that's capitalized in a few places in the scriptures. I love all the titles of Jesus,
but I really, I really love the title advocate. And it's in the New Testament one time, it's in
the Doctrine and Covenants five times in the Book of Mormon once. So that's that's seven times in
the standard works, which I think is really sweet. I think it's also once not describing Jesus, but
it's also once in the Old Testament Deuteronomy. But I want to I want to just talk about Doctrine
Covenants section 45 today, verses three through five, and verse eight, talk about this for a minute,
and maybe break this down a little bit. I think this is really one of the real profound revelations
in the Doctrine and Covenants and one of the real gems of the Restoration. This section 45 is so
amazing. The prophet Joseph Smith, who has this revelation and Jesus is speaking in first person
to the Father, and it's in the present and then later he the prophet sees Joseph Smith or Joseph
Smith sees Jesus on the Mount of Olives with his disciples and he he envisions all of these things
in this section. I just think it's an amazing revelation and it's one of my favorite sections,
I think in the Doctrine and Covenants. So verse verses three through five, Scott, if you want to
read those please. You got it. So this is Doctrine and Covenants section 45. This is verse three,
beginning with verse three. Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father. Yeah, notice the word
with Scott. So right off the bat, I just want to say that, you know, sometimes people read this and
you get this wrong picture that Jesus is the good guy and the Father is kind of the hard guy,
good cop, bad cop here, and that Jesus is the merciful one and God is the God of justice.
Well, they're the same, right? He's advocating with the Father. They're having this conversation,
which I just think is so sweet that we get a glimpse of this and that they're both cheering us on.
They're both cheering for us. Jesus paid the price. Jesus is the one that suffered for our
sins. So of course, he's advocating with the Father. But I think it's significant and doesn't say
that he's advocating to the Father in our behalf. He's advocating with him. Yeah, you know, sometimes,
David, when you think of an advocate, I, most of what we do, we associate to what we relate to
and what we relate to in our culture as an advocate sometimes as an attorney and a law,
exactly, an attorney and a judge relationship. So when we think of Jesus in that way,
advocating for us, then we think he's like an attorney pleading our case to God who,
you know, in that scenario would be looking at reasons not to. But here, they're working together,
advocating together. It's a partnership in our behalf. I love that. Have you ever had to be
an advocate for somebody in court? I have. So have I. Yeah. My son. I had to, the attorney,
his prosecuting or his defense attorney, he was being prosecuted and his defense attorney,
who was a public defender, right, came to me and said, Mr. Durfey, I really think
that Isaac would be blessed if you would advocate for him in court to the judge. And I remember
me thinking, wow, wow, what a responsibility to advocate for my son in front of the judge.
And I remember writing it out. Actually, I wrote it out because I didn't want to get all emotional
or lose my thought. And I put so much effort into that. Right. And it was really, it was really
kind of a life changing experience for me, Scott. And as I was advocating for my son
and saying things from my heart in the, in about the middle of it, I said something
about Isaac and he, Isaac was standing next to me with the defender on the other side of him.
And Isaac just fell down. He was so overcome by what I was saying about him.
Yeah. And so brokenhearted, you know, probably on his way to prison. And he just, literally,
he just fell down. Just collapsed. Yeah. Just collapsed. Yeah. Yeah. Fell down on the floor,
weeping. Overcome. And the, the, the suite happened to be a woman, public defender, reaching,
going down with him and helping him to stand back up. It was, it was, it was really an unbelievable
experience. So when I think of, of this experience that we get a glimpse of here of Jesus advocating
with the father, that's, that's kind of how I, yeah, advocating before the law or before the
court of justice, you know, that, hey, look, the father saying, I have a plan and he fulfilled it.
And he has suffered it. And the son saying, I've given everything I gave my all. I gave
blood for him that he doesn't have to perish. It's quite a picture. I mean, I've been there.
There's, there's something about that. I've done it twice, both times with people that I sponsor
in recovery. And both times went very well. But it, but it's interesting because it's like,
as that advocate, you know, the judge wanted to talk to me too, you know, wanted to know has so
and so, I mean, can you give me an overall feeling and, you know, talk, let's talk about their
doings, what has happened, what have they done? And it was almost, you know, being that advocate,
I almost felt a sense of responsibility as well. I mean, in fact, a huge sense of responsibility
to make sure that my advocation was accurate, was correct, was thorough, you know, and all of those
other things. Me being imperfect, I'm sure it wasn't any of those things to perfection.
But, you know, what a sweet experience we have to have that, you know, with our savior, but not,
but it's different because that judge that I was advocating for to that judge that you were
advocating to, right, it's a different scenario. You know, totally, totally. They're there, they're,
they're in partnership with the law. Yeah, my judge actually started to cry when I was advocating
for tears. He was wiping away his tears. And so was I and I collapsed on the floor. And
the sentence was three to five years because Isaac cannot repent it.
You know, I was advocating for him. It's a total different experience than what we're
reading about here in Dr. and Co. in section 45, is that all that he, all that Jesus did for us,
unless we receive it, which we're going to read about here in just a minute,
unless we receive it, it can't redeem us. So even though I was an advocate,
I, I, I want it, I would have been willing to try to suffer for Isaac, but I just, I couldn't.
Or all the suffering in the world wouldn't be enough because he had not done the things that he
knew that he should do. I mean, I mean, you know, this isn't the first time when you're going to
prison. Yeah, it's not the first time you've messed up, right? Right. Yeah. And he had been in jail
a couple of times before that. And so, you know, it was a totally different experience. But
anyway, whenever I read this about Jesus and the Father advocating, I think of that experience.
Well, let's go back to it. And I'll start at the very beginning again. And this is again,
Dr. and Co. in section 45, we're starting in verse three. Listen to him, who is the advocate with
the Father who is pleading your cause before him saying, Father, behold the suffering and the death
of him who did no sin, in whom now was well pleased, behold the blood of thy Son, which was shed,
the blood of him whom now gave us that thyself might be glorified. So let's, let's focus on the
blood here again, Scott. Twice, twice he mentions the blood. You know, our whole podcast has been
based upon redemption through the blood. We did a whole podcast, I think, on the significance
of blood and what blood means and the bleeding from every pore and the recurrence of that on the
cross. If there's any blood left. And all that that means this cleansing, the blood, which is
cleansing, which is healing and all the symbolism of the blood, it's so interesting that the Savior
uses that word twice to be an advocate for us, that it's through, it's through my blood, behold.
He says, look, look at my blood. He's, look at my blood, which was shed, the blood of him whom
now gave us to us, that he, the Father, may be glorified, meaning that he progresses as we progress.
That's the whole plan. So I just, it's the sufferings and death of him who did no sin.
The testimony, I mean, Jesus, I feel like when Jesus is saying that, he said, it wasn't easy, Father.
It was not easy for me. I suffered, I died, and I didn't sin. Now, again, we've made a whole big
deal out of that in a podcast, many podcasts ago, about the suffering of not sinning, how hard that
was for Jesus, not to sin, that no man knows temptation more than Jesus, because he never gave
into it. We always cut it short by giving into it. Nobody was tempted harder or longer or more
intensely than Jesus. And it's interesting that he focuses on that here. I suffered, I died, and I
didn't sin. Now, of course, not just because that was hard for him and difficult for him,
and a sacrifice for him, but that it was a requirement of him to not sin, so that his
sacrifice could be a vicarious sacrifice for us, meaning, in other words, meeting all of the demands
of justice in our behalf. If he would have committed one little sin, it would have been done.
Commission or omission, then he would have been suffering for himself, and not for you, not for
me. And then we can go to 2 Nephi 7 through 9 to see what would have happened. Everything would have
just gone back to its original state, and we as spirit entities at that point, because our body
would have just gone back to its original state, ashes per ashes, dust per dust. We would become
subject to the devil. And we would then become subject to the devil, the father of lies.
Anyway, and then we go verse 5, verse 5, wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on
my name. Now, that's different, David, than we've talked about this. Believing on my name, we're
talking about a covenant relationship now. Yes, yes. Faith in Christ is one thing. Faith in the name
of Jesus Christ is another. It's deeper. Faith, we know faith is action. We know faith is power.
But faith in the name of Jesus Christ is a covenant. We are taking upon ourselves a covenant
in his name. And we have faith and trust in that covenant. And we have a relationship. We not only
have faith in him, we have a relationship with him. That's what faith in the name means. That's
what it means to believe in his name. We believe in this covenant relationship.
I think this is interesting, this next part of that sentence. I'm going to read the whole thing
again, but then I'll point it out. Wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on my name,
that they may come unto me and have everlasting life. You know, so often we say, in fact,
we've made the invitation multiple times in the course of this podcast, David, where we say, you
know, that's really what he wants us to do. Just come to me. Just come to me. And there's so many
different ways we can come to him. We don't have to have entered into a covenant relationship
in order for us to initiate coming to him. But it seems to me that he's saying here that to fully
come unto me, faith in my name is really important. To have a relationship with him. In order to have
that relationship, which also extends into eternal or will have everlasting life with him,
in order for us to fully come to him, to fully receive the blessings, the relief, all of that.
And to become a joint heir with him. Then that relationship must be a covenant relationship.
That requires a covenant, which is faith in his name. We have taken upon ourselves his name.
And faith in that process means we have received ordinances and covenants that tie us to him.
And every Sunday we get that beautiful reminder as we partake of the sacrament and renew that
covenant. All covenants then are renewed. Correct. Are renewed. I had an interesting
conversation. I'm in a side track for just a second here, but I had a really interesting
conversation with the person in recovery. For whatever reason, I started talking to this person
and we were talking about recovery. And it was female and she said to me, she said,
are you LDS? And I said, yeah. And she said, so am I. She grew up in the area and I asked her to
what degree her participation was at this point and various things and not. But she had been
through the temple. She had entered into a covenant relationship and but was going through some really
difficult times by decisions that she made and others that she didn't, but really difficult
times. And I asked her, so how does that work with you? I know how it worked with me. I'm interested
always to know with other people because much of my problems had come after I had been to the temple,
after I had entered into multiple covenants with my Heavenly Father, as had she. And I asked her
about that. And I said, how did that reconcile you when you were going through those darkest of
times? And she said, Scott, you know what? I could fill my covenants pulling me through.
She said, I broke my covenants. Heavenly Father didn't break his. I broke my covenants. And I
know, and she said this, and I know that because of the redemption of Jesus, this is in an AA meeting.
After, not in the meeting, but after the meeting, she says, I know that because of my covenant
relationship with my Heavenly Father and because of the law of repentance and all of that I get
to participate in, I know that my covenants were pulling me through. That's faith in the name of
Jesus Christ right there, David. That's really sweet. Thanks, Scott, for sharing it. And I just
think so many people who are in the church and that are church centered and not Christ centered,
that they see covenants as tying themselves to the church or another list of things that they
have to do in order to earn eternal life. Well, on one side, and yet on the other side, a list of
things that I can do that other people will see that I'm living my life the way. Yeah. And I just
think that's the wrong way to see it. I know that covenants are not another checklist of things to
do. That covenants are a gift, are a blessing that ties us to Jesus Christ, and that by participating
fully in those ordinances and covenants, we do come unto Him. We have a personal relationship with Him,
and we can't ever earn that or earn eternal life, but it puts us in a place to receive
the power of godliness in our life because of the relationship, not because of another
long list of things I have to do. You just said something that might slide by people,
and I'm going to call it back. You said we need to receive. Talk about receiving.
Well, okay, we got to read verse eight. This is verse eight, Scott. You want to read it or
you want me to read it? Go ahead. Verse eight, same section, section 45. I came unto my own,
and my own received me not, but unto as many as received me gave I power to do many miracles
and to become the sons of God. That means, we all know we're sons and daughters of God,
but to be the sons of God means that you're redeemed, that you go home to God, that you
live in your heavenly home as a family. That's what it means to believe on His name
and to become the sons of God means that we're redeemed. And even unto them that believed on
my name gave I power to obtain eternal life. That's a gift that is given to us. It is not
something that we earn. And we're not talking about living forever here. Eternal life does not mean
that we become immortalized. That's a gift that all men will receive because of the resurrection.
Right. Eternal life means that we have been become joint heirs. God's life. His life.
Celestial life. And we know. Yeah, that's right. DNC, Doctrine and Covenants 14-7.
Eternal life is the greatest gift of all the gifts. It's not something you earn. It must be
received as a gift. You know, Scott, I had an experience many years ago. It was actually given
to me. I want to kind of teach it today, maybe as a parable, but it was given to me as a dream.
And it was on the night of my birthday, the night after my birthday. So it was on March 4th, 1994.
I had been searching and praying. And I was really trying at that point in time in my life
to really connect to the Savior, to understand how the gospel works. More specifically,
to understand how repentance works. To understand how the Atonement of Jesus Christ
worked in my life, in the life of my family, and in all of those that I taught. And we were living
in Minnesota at the time. And I was coordinating seminaries and institutes and traveling throughout
the state of Minnesota. And I had in mind my prison brother, David, who we had kind of adopted.
I told this story in an earlier podcast. And I wanted to understand that the Atonement was there
for David. And I was just really wrestling with this and had been for months, if not years.
Yeah. I've watched you wrestle with this for years. So it really is. Yeah. Yeah. I think it,
that whole wrestle really started on my mission. I think that wrestle started on Parker Mountain.
Well, probably on Parker Mountain. Yeah. Yeah, you're probably right.
Right before my mission, trying to work out my own repentance. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Anyway, this is, this was given to me as a gift, as a birthday gift,
on March 4, 1994. And in this, in this experience, I was given a, I was given some tickets.
They were free to an event that I knew that I could never afford to purchase these tickets
to this event because I was, you know, in a seminary salary, I was, I was just, I was overcome with,
with the just gratitude by this individual who gave me these gifts, these, these tickets.
And we were so excited and we looked forward for weeks to go to this event as a family. And
the day came and I, I loaded all of my family in our little white van and we were driving over to
the event and I, I told my sweetheart, I'm going to drop you and the kids off at the, at the venue.
And you go in, I gave them each their ticket and you, you go in and, and, and I'll, I'll get back
here as soon as I can. I'll go park the car and I'll come back as soon as I can. And I, I watched
them as my wife gave them their tickets, the children and they're going into the event and
they disappear. And then I, I go to find a place to park. And I'm really discouraged pretty quickly
because I can't find a place to park anywhere. The parking lot is completely full, which is
shocking to me because we went way early. I wanted to enjoy the whole event and go way early, get
there early. And I couldn't find, I, it was packed. It was already packed. I couldn't find a parking
space anywhere. And I went outside the parking lot and I started to go down all the side streets.
It was kind of like spokes of a wheel. And I, I kept going down all these side streets and that,
and there was nothing Scott. There was no place where I could park my car. And I finally decided,
okay, I'm just going to have to go to the four lane highway. Then I'm just going to have to go as
far as I have to go to get to park my car, which was a long ways away from where I dropped off my
family. And I started to go down this and I was, I couldn't believe it. There were cars parked on
both sides of the road. I couldn't find a parking place and I was going 55 miles an hour to try to
get to the end of these lines, these, these, this line of cars that were parked. And so discouraged
and going further and further and further away. And finally a man came out of nowhere, appeared on
the island in, in the middle of the road and got my attention was waving me down with his arms.
I was on the inside lane and he waved me down and I slowed down and he pointed across the street to a
parking spot, which I would have completely missed. And he went like this with his, he motioned with
his hand. To do like a U turn, to do a U turn, turn around, turn around. And so I turned around,
and so I turned around, found the nearest place where I could flip a U turn and went back and he
helped me park my car. I parked my car. I got out. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I couldn't
thank him enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I started to run to be back with my family.
I was afraid I was already going to be late and I started to run and I thought, okay, I don't know
if I'm going to get there in time. Maybe I can take a shortcut. There were these, this was kind of a
strange part of the, the dream for me, but there were these white, steep hills, nothing growing on
them. It was like white dust on these hills. And I thought, if I just go up over these hills,
I can take a shortcut. I can get there quicker. So I tried to run up this hill and I slipped and I
slid face down all the way to the bottom. And I tried walking up it and I slipped and I slid
face down all the way to the bottom. Scott, I tried last time to crawl up this hill and I slipped
and I slid face down to the bottom. I was, I was so discouraged and I thought, oh no,
I'm not going to make it. I kind of leaned over and was, had my hands standing but had my hands on
my knees leaning over and felt impressed to look up and I looked up down the road. And I could see
down the road a man who about two blocks away walked right up the hill. And I think, how did he do
that? How did he do that? And I took off on the run and as I got closer to where I had seen this
man go up the hill, I, I saw it. I saw it and there was an iron rod on the hill. And all of a
sudden I started to think about what this was all about. And I took hold of the iron rod and I
walked up the hill. And as soon as I got up the hill, I saw the place where I had dropped off my
family. And it was like I was there. I could see it and it was like I was transported there.
And as I'm approaching the gate where I had seen my family go in and there's nobody around,
I know I'm late. And as I approached the gate, I reached for my ticket in my back pocket
where I placed it. And the ticket is gone. There's no ticket. I reach, I check all my pockets.
I'm reaching for, I'm reaching for all of my, you know, looking for my ticket.
And it's gone. I look, I look back, try to look back where I've walked, can't see it.
I know I can't go back. The one thing that is clear in my mind is you can't go back to where you were.
You can't go back. And as I'm thinking that thought looks still
desperate, I see two individuals walking towards me. Quite a ways off,
a thousand feet or more. And as they get closer to me, I can, I can tell it's a father and a son.
And as they come closer to me, I see the father holding all these tickets.
He's got, he's got a handful of tickets and they're kind of in fan shape in his hand,
the shape of a fan. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm just going to stand here really quiet.
And as soon as he gets close to me, I'm going to, I'm going to try to grab one of those tickets.
That's how desperate I was. And as, as they approached me,
I lunged, literally lunged, jumped to try to grab a ticket. And the father just kind of moved his hand
to the side like he was anticipating this. And I fell flat on my face.
And there on the ground, laid out flat. I hear this is the most, this was the most
sacred and reverent part of the whole experience for me was that I hear the voice of the sun.
And I can't begin to duplicate it, but it was just so meek. It was just so mild.
And the, the, the sun said,
dad, we have enough. We have enough. Would they, would they give me one? Would they give me a ticket?
And I turned and I looked up and I saw the father take a ticket and hand it to the sun.
And the son reached it down to me.
I took the ticket. The son helped me up. He lifted me up face to face. Now
I look into his eyes. I know there's nothing I can say. There is no words that can express
the gratitude and feelings of my heart. Scott,
I take the ticket. I turn and I walk through the gate.
I woke up. It was four or something AM and I woke up my sweetheart next to me.
And I said, Chris, I've just had a really significant experience.
And I had to tell her the whole experience and I told her my dream.
And as I continued to ponder it that morning, there were, there were things that I won't share today.
Or really publicly that, that I learned in that dream about myself or about how it really works,
how it all works. But this, this is what I knew. It's a gift. The ticket was free.
There was nothing I could do, no price I could pay, not enough I could give to earn that gift.
What I had to do was I had to get myself back to a place where I could receive it after I had lost it.
I think we've all been redeemed from children on up, but we lose it as we sin. And when we sin,
we're going 55 miles an hour down a four lane highway to who knows where,
away from the presence of God, away from being with him and our families. That's what we do when we sin.
And our desired destination. And a man comes out. I don't know who that man was. I have,
I have some thoughts about who that man was who came out and got my attention and told me to turn
around. Might have been a bishop, a teacher, a parent, somebody who had been placed there by God
to help me turn around. Then I turned around and I faced the other direction.
Help me to park. And I learned there are no shortcuts, but a man showed me the iron rod.
I think I know who that man was who showed me the iron rod, the word of God. And as soon as I took
hold of it and went up the hill, there it was, like the tree of life. There it was where I needed
to be, where I wanted to be the love of God and to be with my family. And I was there.
There was grace and mercy all along the way. And I get there and it's still not enough.
I've lost my ticket. There is nothing I can do to earn my way.
And you worked hard to get up that hill to no avail, to run. I mean, all of the,
all of the, all of the descriptors that you've used, David, to kind of talk about your arriving.
And this isn't the first time I've heard this experience, but every time I hear it, it's,
it impacts me so much because you worked your tail off to get there. Even all that work.
It was not easy. You couldn't work it. And it wasn't enough. And the father holding the tickets.
And so sweet when I heard that voice, we have enough. We have enough
as a suggestion or advocating for me to the father and the father so willing and happy
to hand the son the ticket and him reach it down to me, pick me up and me to fill his love.
I, I, Scott, we, all we can do is qualify ourselves to receive the gift by repenting
by exercising our faith in Christ, the desires of our hearts and receiving the ticket and having this,
having this relationship with him that he gives us the gift. I, I was, I wanted to make sure that,
that this wasn't just a dream. I wanted to, I shared this with a couple of people before I
ever shared it with anyone else. And that was a stake president who I really loved,
President Brown in Minnesota. And he, he encouraged me. He says, well, you're friends with,
with Robert Matthews. Why don't you, why don't you talk to brother Matthews about it?
And so I called brother Matthews, you know, brother Matthews. We've talked about, I think,
on these podcasts who wrote the Bible dictionary and I had this sweet little relationship with him.
And I called him up and I said, brother Matthews, I had this experience. And can I share it with you?
And then you just tell me your thoughts and make sure that I'm doctrinally not off.
And I shared it with him and it was kind of really emotional for me then. And,
and he just listened the whole time. And when I was through, I said, so is there,
doctrinally, how do you feel about this? And, and he's, he just said to me,
thank you very much, David, for sharing that with me. That is how I have always seen it.
That's how I have always seen it. He said, and then he said, it reminds me of this scripture.
So I'm going to turn to Dr. and Covenant section 88, Scott. And we've talked about,
you have to receive it. It's free, but you have to receive it. You have to get yourself,
qualify yourself to be in a position to receive it. And that takes effort.
So section 88, Scott, and I'd like to read it, verses 32 and 33. And brother Matthews read this to
me over the phone. And they who this is describing the resurrections, different levels of resurrection.
And this is describing those who are resurrected last, actually, the, the individuals who will go to
a place of no glory, outer darkness. Verse 32, and they who remain shall also be quickened.
They'll be resurrected. Nevertheless, they, these are the sons and daughters of perdition,
they shall return again to their own place to enjoy that which they are willing to receive,
because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received. And brother Matthews,
when he read that, I remember him telling me, so, so David, sons of perdition are going 55 miles an
hour away from you, from God, and they won't turn back. It's not that they can't. And it's not that
God doesn't try to help them turn back. They won't turn back. They won't turn around. They won't
make their way back. They want nothing to do with it. And they go 55 miles an hour for hundreds of
miles away from God. And then verse 33, this, this is, I don't know, maybe one of the most significant
scriptures in my life. For what does it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he
receive not the gift? Or in my case in dream, or he lose the gift? I lost the ticket. Behold, he
rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.
It's not so much the gifts, God. It's the giver of the gift that we reject. We don't just reject
the gift. We reject the giver of the gift. That is the greatest sin of all. And what we do in the
gospel of Jesus Christ is we try to have a relationship with that giver of the gift to try
to qualify and put ourselves in a position, a place, where we can have that relationship,
where we can hear the voice of the advocate. Dad, we have enough, and we look to him,
to the Son who receives from the Father all the power, all of the gift of mercy and grace,
because of his sacrifice and suffering to offer it to us. And he helps us all along the way.
It's not easy, Scott, obtaining redemption to experience salvation and eternal life,
but it really is simple. It really is simple. And I'm really thankful for the gift of God's Son
and the gift that the Son has offered us, the gift of redemption. And if we don't receive
redemption, Scott, here and now, I don't think you have to die to have this experience. That was
one of the parts of the dream. That wasn't just a depiction of eternal life. That was a parable
for me to know that I could receive it now. And if we don't receive it and qualify ourselves to
receive the gift, we reject the giver of the gift. And that's the great sin. So I hope that
our listeners will, in the spirit that I'm feeling, sharing it, a sacred experience for me, that I
offer that as a gift to you who are listening. It's something of a gift that you might be able to
see the gospel system, the gospel of Jesus Christ as a system of receiving gifts. The plan of redemption
is the process of just receiving the gift of redemption and eternal life in our life. That's
how it works, Scott. That's how repentance and the Atonement work. That's the kind of relationship
they have with each other, that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is there for us. But we have to place
ourselves in a position through repentance to receive it. And that repentance in that story
was the turning around the car. It was turning around the car with the aid of somebody to do
that. You know, what a gift, Dave. That the gift that you received was beyond measure for you.
That was life-changing for me, Scott. It answered all of my questions that I had been wrestling with.
And through that gift, we can also be gifted. So thank you for sharing that.
Here's going to be my invitation. I invite us all to listen again or revisit some of the important
points of David's story. My first exposure to that was that he has this written and I was able to
read that. And you know, there are lessons. There are things in this dream, in this story that Dave
has just shared with us that can be life-changing if we allow them to be. You know, we began our
podcast today talking about and reading from the Scripture. And one of the invitations or comments
in that was they that come unto me and have everlasting life. Wherefore, Father, spare these,
my brethren, that believe on my name, that they may come unto me and have everlasting life.
And I think that for all of us, there may be more. In fact, there's definitely sure to be more for
us individually. But for all of us collectively, we can take a look at this and ask ourselves some
important questions. And those questions can include, what am I doing to move towards? What am I doing
to come unto him? And in my which directions, which direction am I facing? Yeah, am I going,
am I going 55 miles an hour down a four-lane highway? Am I going maybe 10 miles an hour down
one of the cross streets? Which which direction am I going? And how fast am I going? And what's it
going to take? Or who's it going to take to help me to turn around? And then when I'm coming to him,
and in the dream, you didn't know you were coming to him, we have that vantage point from our from
where we sit and seeing this dream. But in coming to him, it was difficult until you followed the
right person to the right path. And so often in our own lives, we try to just pick our own path
for various reasons. And I won't get into all of those, you can, you know what they are.
Well, and that path Scott, thank you for bringing that up because there was a little path, it was a
green. By the rod. I didn't add this, but there was a green little path, grassy little path.
Up the powdery mountain. Up this weird, strange, white powdered, dusty mountain. And it was,
that was the covenant path. Yeah. And taking hold of that iron rod. Yeah. And that cup walking on
that covenant path almost transported me to the place where I needed to be. So your your desire
in this dream was to get somewhere to be with my family forever. And and in order for you to receive
that gift, receive that gift, you had to do certain things. It wasn't those things that gave you the
gift. It weren't though. It wasn't those things that made that gift available to you in and of
themselves. But they were a part of a process that you went through to receive that gift in this
dream, the gift above all gifts. And that's how this is for us. That gift is for us. It's free.
We qualify for it, which enables us and requires us effort from us in many ways. And we won't get
into all that now for the sake of time. But but I think David, if we focus on and I think this
for me is what I'm going to take from what we talked about this week as we end our podcast now,
I'm going to take what am I doing to come to him? And what am I doing? And we read this, you know,
to believe on my name that they may come to me. What am I doing in my covenants? How's my covenant
path? Yeah, what am I doing to enhance my covenants? What am I doing to separate me from them? What am
I not doing that I need to do a better job? What is the level of my faith in Christ? Or
what is the level of my faith in the name of Christ? Yeah.
There there is a difference. And before we conclude, Scott, you know, I usually would not share my
experience with all my students over the many years I taught after having that experience.
And I would usually try to teach the same the same principle about receiving the gift and that
that redemption is free. By the way, Lehi says that in second Nephi chapter two, he says salvation is
free. Or redemption is free. It's not just talking about the resurrection. That's talking about being
born again. That talks about spiritual and physical redemption. Anyway, to teach this to my students,
I would often use this analogy. I would say, so I'm going to give you a completely paid,
paid free gift for a full all expenses paid trip to Hawaii. What will you do to get there?
What it's all paid for the airlines, whatever you whatever vehicle you want to use a ship,
if you want to go on a cruise, if you want to take the the flight, I'm going to pay for it.
It's all paid for. But I got some stuff to do to get ready for that. Even though it's free,
even though that trip is free, that gift is free, I still have sacrifices I need to make.
I need to make arrangements at work. So that's what I would ask my students. This is the discussion
we'd have. You're going to you're going right where I would want my students to go is I would
ask them so so what are you going to do? What are you going to do to receive the gift? And they
would say, well, I got to get time squared away with work. I'm going to have to figure out a
luggage situation. I'm going to have to figure out how to get to the airport or wherever I'm
going to transport me to there. I'm going to have to make arrangements to feed my horses.
You know, and on and on and on it goes. There's some work. There's some sacrifice. It's free.
But I have to do things in order to qualify to receive that free trip. Exactly.
That's it. Scott. And that's how this goes. That's how it is. That's how this goes. That's the plan
or system of redemption. Sure changes things. It sure changes things for for us. It's not easy.
It's not easy, but it's sure simple. And it's and it's not just even if it wasn't completely simple,
which it is, I agree. But even if it wasn't, it'd still be worth a little work to get to that
freedom. Who wouldn't receive the gifts? God, I know. I know. Well, who wouldn't receive this gift?
Yeah. Well, there's been times in my life, David, when I wasn't receiving that gift.
And there's been times in a lot of our lives when we just don't receive that gift. And I think we
get confused. We let the enemy into our lives and and on and on. And we could, you know, I could go
on and on a lot longer about that as well. But the point is, is that the gift is there. It's free
for all of us. We do need to receive it. And and ultimately, this is the point.
Who especially think about this this time of year, right? Who is there out there? Who is not willing
to put themselves in a position to qualify so that they can rejoice?
I'm 88 verse 33. So that they can rejoice in him. Who is the giver of the gift?
Scott, that experience of looking into the eyes of the Savior, of hearing his voice,
of being in their presence completely, completely changed me. I could never forever be the same
after that. Who is who is there? It's it's not just about the gift. It's about the giver
of the gift. And who is there who is not willing to rejoice in the giver of the gift and have that
relationship with him? That's the ultimate question that I think we should all ponder.
And I agree. Let that be our charge this week. Let us consider, you know, what we're doing and
what we're not doing that can help us get it or that is keeping us away from it. But that gift
is ours. It's there for us to receive. And may we rejoice in him who is the giver of the gift
this week. You know, this is a time when we think a lot about gifts, Scott. It's Christmas,
time of the year, and gifts seem to be the center of it. And the gift of God's Son,
the gift that the Father offers us. Really, is he's the ultimate giver of the gift,
which is the Son who gifts us eternal life? What a marvelous time of the year
in season in our life, wherever we're at in our life to ponder, have I received the gift? And
do I rejoice in the givers, Father and Son and Holy Ghost of the gift in my life? And I hope
that this Christmas season, we can all rejoice in that.
Me too. Hey, thanks for being with us, everybody. Another great podcast. We've got a lot of great
things coming up. We you probably heard already an interview. We've got a couple more coming up.
And then as we mentioned, we do have that focus that we plan to do at the beginning of the year.
Beginning with kind of a focus on prayer. Hey, Dave, thanks for being with us again. As always,
it's great to be together and do this. Thank you. Merry Christmas to everybody. And happy new year.
And thank you for the blessing that I know that this is for me and my life, Scott, to be able to
share these experiences with my family and others through this process and means. And
I'm really grateful for that. And maybe just feel like it's appropriate today to express my love for
my Heavenly Father and for Jesus Christ and to testify that I know that they live and that
they have done everything, everything and then some to provide us with eternal life and redemption
in this life. And I testify that I know that's true by the experiences that I've had, but especially
because of the power and the gift of the Holy Ghost in my life. I knew that that dream
and experience had come to me as a gift from the Holy Ghost, that the Holy Ghost had provided that
experience for me, something as a birthday gift as a result of many years of a personal
wrestle. And I praise and thank God for that and say all of that in the holy name of Jesus Christ.
Amen. Thanks, David. Have a great week, everybody. Remember, you have been redeemed through his
blood. Do all that you can to receive this gift through the gift of the Holy Ghost, a gift providing
a gift and what a gift that will be for all of us. One opportunity that we all have to receive
the gift that's choice above all other gifts. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next week.
Have a great week, everybody.