1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,480 Well, all right, everybody. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:08,480 Welcome back. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,640 Here we are another day. 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,440 Dave and I are ready to roll with another podcast. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:15,440 How are you today, David? 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,440 I'm good. 7 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,120 I'm good, Scott. 8 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,160 You're looking good. 9 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,080 We had a great experience this past week in Institute David. 10 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:29,980 We kind of took a little spin off of past podcasts and we spent the entire day almost 11 00:00:29,980 --> 00:00:37,200 through the entire class talking about the ordinance of the sacrament. 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,080 After that talk or that discussion we had, boy, I sure had a sacred experience this week 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,080 taking the sacrament. 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,080 What a sweet time to rejoice in the things that we learn here. 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:57,480 We're able to set aside the effects of the fall in our lives, the spiritual and the physical 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:58,480 death both. 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,480 Yeah, for sure, Scott. 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,480 We're really blessed. 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:10,320 This is a great time of the year to feel thankful and be filled with gratitude. 20 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:13,160 That's so important. 21 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:22,600 I hope my gratitude is really focused this holiday season towards the Savior, the Atonement. 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,000 That's where we really need to keep our focus. 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,960 If we do, we'll really feel the joy and peace of the season no matter what happens. 24 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:32,960 Yeah, right. 25 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:33,960 Yeah, no matter what happens. 26 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:36,640 You know, my son just went back to jail. 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:45,000 Oh, it's so sad and it's so hard and so discouraging, you know, in some ways, Scott, and hard to 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,000 believe. 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,040 But, you know, it's hard. 30 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,720 He has so many challenges. 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:59,680 And yet he messed up on his parole and he's probably back there for a few months. 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:09,440 But I am just so grateful for the Atonement of Jesus Christ that gives us peace and gives 33 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:19,160 us greater understanding about our purpose here and the mercy and grace and compensatory 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:26,840 powers and redemptive and enabling powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in each of 35 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:27,840 our lives. 36 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:35,400 And, you know, one thing I've learned, Scott, is that even in great sorrow, you can have 37 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,400 great peace. 38 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:43,280 And, you know, I experienced that again this weekend. 39 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:54,200 Great sorrow, but great peace and gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ and family 40 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:59,520 and all that we've been blessed with because of the restoration of the fullness of the 41 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:00,520 gospel. 42 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,960 You know, I have a question for you, David. 43 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,840 As a parent, and I, you know, not all my kids are... 44 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:13,880 Anyway, as a parent with a son that's going through the types of things that, you know, 45 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:19,520 your son is going through, which consequently means that you and your sweetheart, Chris, 46 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,000 will be going through things too. 47 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,480 Somebody once told me you're only as happy as your saddest kid. 48 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:30,480 I think there's some truth to that, but I don't think that it has to be that way because 49 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,000 you just said, you know, we have peace even in this. 50 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,320 So as a parent, how do we develop that peace? 51 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,640 I know that, because I know you and I aren't the only ones. 52 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:43,240 A lot of our listeners are in situations with family members that, you know, may or may 53 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:49,480 not be participating in things that are bringing peace in that individual's life, which consequently, 54 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,760 you know, kind of bleeds over into families, especially parents' lives. 55 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,440 Dave, how do you deal with that? 56 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,160 What's some advice maybe? 57 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:09,280 Well, you know, I've had lots of close friends who have not stayed active in the church because 58 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:19,440 they had a wayward son or daughter, and I've never understood really that relationship 59 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:27,160 or connection that someone feels that if they have a wayward son or daughter that they can't 60 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,000 stay active in the church. 61 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:40,800 And the only way I think I can understand it is that their conversion is more into the 62 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,800 church—I'm not being critical, this is just an observation—their conversion is more 63 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:52,560 into the church than it is into the gospel of Jesus Christ. 64 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:59,280 And there are some people—I mean, my son identifies with being gay, and I have some 65 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:05,680 friends who have children who have identified as being gay, and they feel like they can't 66 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:14,720 be active in the church because of the church standards or the church policy on being gay. 67 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:24,160 And I'm going, the focus should be on Jesus Christ and the love of Jesus Christ for each 68 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:30,840 of our children, that they are sons and daughters of God, and that's where our focus should 69 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:31,840 be. 70 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:39,640 And my goodness, when I go to church, I learn about how Jesus is there for my children, 71 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:45,320 not how the church is there for my children, I learn how Jesus is there to redeem me, not 72 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,480 that the church is going to redeem me. 73 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:57,440 I just think that our focus when we're dealing with children has to be, again, in the Lord 74 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:08,200 Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice, and not upon the policies, procedures, or stance 75 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,720 of the church, or the members of the church. 76 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:19,200 It just has to really be on Jesus Christ, and I know from my witness of the Holy Ghost 77 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,800 that I've received that we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ, and our focus 78 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,840 has to be in Him. 79 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:32,280 And I've said so many times before the experience I had with President Packer that if we don't 80 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:40,040 do a better job of teaching and getting our children to focus on the atonement of Jesus 81 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:46,480 Christ, if we don't do a better job doing that, then we do teaching them just commandments 82 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:52,480 and a checklist gospel, we're going to lose our children. 83 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,760 And not only will we lose our children, but we'll lose our own testimonies when our children 84 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,720 are wayward. 85 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,720 If our focus is not on Jesus Christ and His atonement. 86 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:10,440 So that's not a great answer to your question, other than when our focus is where it needs 87 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:16,720 to be, it even gives purpose in this. 88 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,600 For example, Scott, all that my son has been through being a fetal alcohol baby, when we 89 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:28,360 adopted him when he was two months old, having been abused, quartered, taking him out, bipolar, 90 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,320 and Asperger's and everything else that he has. 91 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:41,720 And knowing that could be really make one feel hopeless and discouraged. 92 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,400 And some days it does. 93 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:49,240 Some days that is how we feel until we remember that through the atonement of Jesus Christ 94 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:57,920 He will be compensated for all of that, and that the Lord judges us and gives us mercy 95 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:05,040 based upon our conditions, and that He consecrates all our afflictions, whether we choose them 96 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,040 or not. 97 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:14,040 He can consecrate through the atonement of Jesus Christ all our afflictions for our gain, 98 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,560 whether that's talking about our children or the effects that our children have on us 99 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:19,560 or others. 100 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:27,200 And you know, when it comes to children, Scott, my gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ 101 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:35,680 is personal for what Jesus did for me, but I even think I feel greater gratitude when 102 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:41,600 I know what my Savior did for my kids. 103 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,520 And the same way, I am exactly that way. 104 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:52,000 That my kids are covered by Him. 105 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:59,320 And knowing that takes a lot of stress off my relationship with my children. 106 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:06,480 Instead of me trying to save them, instead of me trying them to get to fall in and keep 107 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:13,880 a standard, I feel such peace when I know that Jesus has them. 108 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:25,000 And instead of me talking about their behaviors, I just like to talk to them about Jesus and 109 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,320 how Jesus has got them. 110 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,840 You know, I had an experience a long time ago, Scott, when I was a bishop, the bishop 111 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:38,360 across the hall from me in our meeting house back in Minnesota had a son who was really 112 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:46,040 struggling, who was a little bit of an Alma, the younger, and not doing what was right 113 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:52,840 and getting into some trouble in high school and didn't have a great reputation. 114 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,600 And this bishop one day came into my office to talk to me about it. 115 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:04,280 You know, bishop to bishop sometimes is nobody else you can talk to, except the bishop across 116 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,280 the hall from you sometimes. 117 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:11,040 Anyway, and we had a sweet relationship, we were good friends, and he came into my office 118 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:19,280 and we talked, and we talked about the quote from President Boyd K. Packer years ago that 119 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:27,560 true doctrine understood changes behavior more than a discussion of behavior changes 120 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:30,000 behavior. 121 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,440 And so we talked about that. 122 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:41,080 And I remember we both decided that with our children that when they were in trouble or 123 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:48,520 they were misbehaving that we would choose to talk about doctrine and not behavior. 124 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:54,040 So it wasn't more than a few weeks later, he's back in my office, and he's telling me 125 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,580 about how his son came home drunk one night, just that weekend. 126 00:10:59,580 --> 00:11:02,920 He said, oh, bishop, it was amazing. 127 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:10,040 You know, he came home and instead of me getting all angry and mad and upset and yelling and 128 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:16,000 getting into a, you know, a yelling match or a fight with my son, and if he would have 129 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,960 gotten in a fight with his son he would have lost because his son was a big strong kid. 130 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:26,920 And he said, you know, when he came home and he was drunk, I just said to him, I'll name 131 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,920 him Chad. 132 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:35,920 And Chad, do you believe you lived before this life? 133 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,520 I don't know, his drunk son said. 134 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,760 I don't know. 135 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:47,900 And his dad said, well, I know you did. 136 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:52,440 And I know you didn't set on the fence there. 137 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:57,320 You were valiant and you were true and you were faithful. 138 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:03,080 Why are you setting on the fence here? 139 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:10,400 And I don't know why, but probably because the spirit that was there, the spirit really 140 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,880 touched that young man and he really thought about who he was. 141 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,960 And just that little discussion of doctrine that those two had that night and then his 142 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,920 son couldn't stop thinking about it. 143 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:32,400 It was a turning point in his life and I remember kind of the miraculous change that was. 144 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:39,080 And it wasn't probably too much unlike Alma the Younger, when Alma the Younger had that 145 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,600 experience when the angel appeared and the angel chastised him and said he was there 146 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,360 because of the prayer of his father. 147 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:53,400 And Alma says that when he had that experience, when he was kind of struck dumb, that he said 148 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,960 the first thing he thought of was about the teachings of his father. 149 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,600 Same with Enos, right? 150 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,320 When he repents and wrestles all day and all night and the Lord speaks to him. 151 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:12,360 You know, the thing that led up to that whole event is that he remembered his father teaching 152 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,960 about the joy of the saints. 153 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:25,400 I know that that joy of the saints and I know that our focus on Jesus Christ and His atoning 154 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:33,720 sacrifice is the most important thing we can centre on in our personal lives, in our homes, 155 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,480 and with our families. 156 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,600 Having a gay child, I don't talk about being gay. 157 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,200 I talk about the atonement of Jesus Christ. 158 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,120 I talk about God's love for His children. 159 00:13:51,120 --> 00:14:02,680 Yes, I teach the doctrine about families and identity and that gender is eternal and pre-mortal. 160 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:10,040 I know that and I can teach that, but I can also teach that Jesus Christ is there for 161 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:19,520 them and that through Jesus Christ that they not only can be forgiven of their sins, but 162 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:26,200 they can have the enabling strength and power in their life to keep the commandments and 163 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:33,000 they can have compensatory powers in their life to overcome any injustices or unfairness 164 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,680 that they feel that they have received in this life. 165 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:42,720 That's a different discussion, Scott, than just talking about behaviours and the standards 166 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,040 of the world and whether we keep those standards or not. 167 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:55,240 And I'll tell you as being one of those wayward in the past kids that if I was approached 168 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,480 in that way, it might be a little bit different story. 169 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:05,320 Maybe not, but it definitely would have felt different inside and that's not an indictment 170 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,520 on anybody in my life that may or may not have done those kinds of things. 171 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,360 But David, I think that we struggle as parents. 172 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,220 We feel a responsibility and we have a responsibility. 173 00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:26,000 It's an important and divine vested in responsibility that we have to teach our children. 174 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,720 But I know that I really made a lot of mistakes in teaching my children, but we all do to 175 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,240 a degree. 176 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:41,040 To varying degrees, we are all, you quoted Hope Floats a while back, what we're really 177 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:47,560 all doing in our adult life is learning how to get over our childhood. 178 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:54,200 But I think we especially, and to me it just seems like in recent months, maybe even years, 179 00:15:54,200 --> 00:16:00,280 I don't know, but there's been a real emphasis on learning to love those that may not be 180 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,920 in step with what we're doing. 181 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,280 And that especially goes to our kids. 182 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,760 In fact, we've received counsel from the pulpit and from the brethren that it's our job to 183 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,480 love, just to love those that struggle. 184 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,740 But as a parent, and I know I'm not alone in this, we've wondered, what does that look 185 00:16:20,740 --> 00:16:22,400 like exactly? 186 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,560 What does loving him or her look like exactly in a situation when they come home drunk? 187 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:28,560 How do I love that kid? 188 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,560 I mean, I know I love him in my heart, but how do I display that love, et cetera? 189 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,240 And I think you hit the nail on the head. 190 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:41,360 I think that was a nerve that I think potentially you hit with all of us that will be great 191 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,820 counsel to all of us is to teach doctrine. 192 00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:52,120 But to do it in a loving way to teach that doctrine, to teach who's you are, who you 193 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,400 are, who's you are. 194 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,080 I love that. 195 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,480 Do you know that you existed before this life? 196 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:58,480 Well, I don't know. 197 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,720 I know you did and you weren't on the fence there. 198 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,160 Why are you here? 199 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,160 Yeah. 200 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:10,080 And he said it was just a really sweet, tender discussion and experience. 201 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:17,480 And it's like my dear stake president friend, you know, whose daughter left the church and 202 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:23,480 he and his wife praying every night that she would come back, that God would change her 203 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:29,280 or that they could as parents help to change her. 204 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,640 And the strong impression they both had simultaneously while they were praying. 205 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,280 In fact, I think he told me they opened their eyes and they looked at one another and said, 206 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,440 did you hear that or did you feel that? 207 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,440 Yeah. 208 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:48,800 And the strong impression was. 209 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,640 Don't worry. 210 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,120 I will change her. 211 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:56,360 You love her. 212 00:17:56,360 --> 00:18:00,440 Your responsibility is to love her. 213 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:07,600 And I think we could add and teach her if we will just love our children and we'll just 214 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,880 strive to teach them. 215 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:15,880 Now, I believe in tough love and I believe there is a time where they may feel a little 216 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:23,640 divine anger and that sometimes there's I believe in discipline. 217 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:24,640 Believe me. 218 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:25,640 You're a Durfee. 219 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,320 Yeah, I believe in discipline and that straight as the gate narrows the way. 220 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:40,600 But what I have also learned, Scott, is unfortunately most of our anger is because of fear and not 221 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,720 because of love. 222 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,480 And whenever it's out of fear, it's a sin. 223 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,280 And we don't solve any problem doing that. 224 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:56,000 We just exponentially make it worse. 225 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,640 Perfect love cast it out all fear. 226 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:08,080 And yet, perfect love will sometimes be tough love. 227 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:15,960 And there has to be, I think, certain expectations and responsibilities and consequences and 228 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,840 accountability. 229 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,040 There's no agency, Scott, without accountability. 230 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,360 There has to be consequences and accountability. 231 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:29,040 I mean, that was the very essence of what we fought over in the pre-moral existence. 232 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,160 We've covered that before in another episode. 233 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:38,680 But I believe what the Bible Dictionary teaches, that the war in heaven was about accountability, 234 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,720 really. 235 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,280 Because if Satan could destroy accountability, meaning that there was no consequence for 236 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:53,920 sin, meaning that it was just whatever you feel, anything goes, the Church of what is 237 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,840 happening now and I'll save you, that was, I believe, Satan's proposal. 238 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,840 If there's no accountability and there's no consequences, then there's no agency. 239 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:11,640 So I believe in accountability, but I know that all of that has to be administered in 240 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,160 love. 241 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,880 And if love isn't there, and when I say love, I mean love of a parent, and even going higher 242 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:25,960 than that, the perfect love that casts out all fear is the love of Christ, which is charity, 243 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:33,360 which in my definition or way of looking at it, is charity is the ability or the gift 244 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:34,360 of the Spirit. 245 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,440 It is a gift of the Holy Ghost. 246 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:45,200 To have real charity is to get a glimpse of how God sees us, how God sees my son, how 247 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,320 God sees my daughter. 248 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,280 That's charity. 249 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:57,560 And then I'll use my parental love and the gift of charity to discipline my children, 250 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,400 to try to teach my children. 251 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,040 I think that's kind of the process, and again, none of us are perfect in it. 252 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,240 I'm a sinner, just raising sinners. 253 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,640 You're a sinner raising sinners. 254 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,680 None of us are perfect at this, and guess what? 255 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,760 God knew we wouldn't be. 256 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,020 It was part of the plan. 257 00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:20,960 It was part of the plan that we come to a celestial world, that we don't see everything 258 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:29,760 perfectly, we don't know everything, we walk by faith, we continue to learn and progress. 259 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:39,160 I think—I don't know, no study, no judgment here, but I know some suicides are the result 260 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:48,920 of Satan, individuals shaming themselves to such a point where they feel so worthless 261 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,800 and so trapped that they see no way out. 262 00:21:52,800 --> 00:22:02,200 And I think that's based on two doctrinal misunderstandings, or not knowing, ignorance, 263 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:09,000 not knowing these two doctrines, of the fall that we would all sin, God knew we would sin, 264 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:15,000 and that that was not only going to happen, but He meant for it to happen. 265 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,840 I mean, He doesn't want us to sin. 266 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,520 God doesn't, right? 267 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,760 No, but part of the plan is that we do sin, though. 268 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,120 We know He can't look upon sin with a least degree of allowance, amen, but He knew we 269 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:30,120 would. 270 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:35,060 And it was part of the plan, that we live in a hellish world, and that we have these 271 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:39,320 carnal bodies, and that we would sin. 272 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,960 Well, Dave, if we didn't sin, and if it wasn't possible, or if it was possible for us to 273 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,520 not sin, then where would the need of the Savior be in our lives? 274 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,000 Well, that's the second doctrine. 275 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,000 Exactly. 276 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:56,520 So the second doctrine is, if you really understand the fall, we shouldn't just shame ourselves 277 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,960 and beat ourselves up over and over again. 278 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,000 God knew that this would happen. 279 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:09,600 Second, we have a Savior and Redeemer there for us, who will, through His mercy and His 280 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:19,040 grace and His offering, and through His sacrifice and His suffering, that all is ransomed, all 281 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:28,840 is made up for, all is covered by the Atonement of Jesus Christ, if we will access the Atonement 282 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,520 of Jesus Christ in our lives through faith. 283 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,320 I know a lot of us have considered this. 284 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,320 I know a lot of us have thought about this. 285 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,000 I know some of us may have even worried about this. 286 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,920 And I think it's important that we address this, because this is something that I believe 287 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,680 every parent, every spouse, even every child, anybody in any relationship, you know, are 288 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,560 going to have these things to think about in their lives. 289 00:23:53,560 --> 00:24:01,600 And David, as we've taught over the last 30-some-odd episodes, we've really focused on the solution 290 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,600 of the fall. 291 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,400 And let's just summarize the fall. 292 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,580 There's two effects, basically general effects of the fall. 293 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:12,760 We have a spiritual death, we have a physical death that came because of the fall of Adam 294 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,800 and Eve, the fall of us all. 295 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:20,440 And everything that we have in this life that is uncomfortable or not aligned with our Heavenly 296 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,760 Father is a result of the fall. 297 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Yes. 298 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,560 Our sicknesses, physical death. 299 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,400 Our addictions, physical and spiritual. 300 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,520 Mostly spiritual. 301 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,080 And so many other things. 302 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,080 Emotional. 303 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,080 Emotional illnesses. 304 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,080 Yeah, that's all. 305 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:46,240 Mental illnesses, social injustices, social inequities. 306 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:52,480 All of those things are the result of the fall of Adam and Eve. 307 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,280 I think that's really, really critical. 308 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,880 I felt impressed to give a patriarchal blessing to a young woman who I felt like, in fact, 309 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:07,240 I warned her of her, I didn't know her, but her parents commented about it after the blessing 310 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:17,480 Sunday, was I warned her to, I can't remember the wording, not to get hung up on perfectionism. 311 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:25,840 And I said, you must understand that you are a daughter of Heavenly parents and a daughter 312 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,160 of Adam and Eve. 313 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:37,000 I think that's so important, Scott, that we understand that our spirits are so good and 314 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,760 inherently so pure. 315 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:50,160 That our physical bodies are, we're messed up and we have these challenges in our life 316 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:57,120 and they are all part of the plan of redemption and that we have to accept it and acknowledge 317 00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,120 it. 318 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,800 I think it's one of the keys of that, the whole repentance course. 319 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,800 I do too. 320 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,160 The first one, right? 321 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:11,180 The first key of the whole course, which we've tried to teach in this podcast, is to understand 322 00:26:11,180 --> 00:26:13,600 really who we are. 323 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,720 And that includes not just that we're sons and daughters of God, and that doesn't just 324 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,080 include whose we are, that we are really children of Christ because of his atonement and he 325 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:31,000 purchased us with his blood, but it means that we understand that we are all sons and 326 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:41,120 daughters of fallen parents, Adam and Eve, and that we were born with the seeds of sin 327 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,280 in all of us. 328 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:48,880 It runs in our blood and we have natural, we are all, when it says that we are the natural 329 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,680 man and enemies to God, it's true for all of us. 330 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,480 Now again, we can overcome that through the atonement of Jesus Christ and become as a 331 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,220 child and humble and meek and all of that. 332 00:27:00,220 --> 00:27:03,800 But that takes a lot of effort. 333 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:10,860 We are inherently righteous, quoting Elder Holland, but we are naturally evil. 334 00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:20,880 We are dual beings, spirit and body, and there is this continual battle that we all face 335 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:21,880 daily. 336 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:29,400 And we have to understand that, and that when we give in to the physical and we give in 337 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:40,680 to temptation and the carnal, there is no reason to just give up and throw our life 338 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:52,200 aside or waste it or shame ourselves and throw in the towel or quit trying because Jesus 339 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,920 suffered for that. 340 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,440 It's almost a mockery of His atonement if we don't, if we are not willing to not only 341 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:07,800 accept it, but apply His blood in our behalf by living the gospel, by participating in 342 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:13,760 ordinances, by receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost in our life. 343 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,080 Those are all part of it. 344 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,320 When we study the fallen, and I think the second thing will be our gratitude for Christ's 345 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,320 suffering for us. 346 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,400 Yeah, second key. 347 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,800 But before we get to that, as we study the fall, one of the first things, and this has 348 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,680 been something that's been in front of me because of the experiences of others who I'm 349 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:38,160 sponsoring and addiction recovery programs, or maybe even some that I may be working with 350 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,600 in my ward as part of a leadership position that I hold there, et cetera. 351 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:49,640 But I think so often when we're thinking of the fall, one of the main things that came 352 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:56,480 as a result of the fall, I think is our inherent desire to hide. 353 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,480 That was the first- 354 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,480 Like Adam and Eve. 355 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,020 Like Adam and Eve, one of the first things they did. 356 00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:04,360 They were encouraged by the enemy to hide. 357 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,840 I think we're often encouraged by the enemy to hide as well. 358 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,880 And I think that we look at that experience that Adam and Eve had, and to us it seems 359 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:13,880 silly. 360 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,720 It's like, what are you guys thinking? 361 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,760 He sees you. 362 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,520 He knows where you are. 363 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,040 You cannot hide from him. 364 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:26,880 But at the same time in our own lives, we take on, make decisions, we make mistakes, 365 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,280 we whatever. 366 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,960 We tend to sometimes hide too. 367 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,840 And we sometimes, I think, take on that same thinking that Adam and Eve took when they 368 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,280 were in the garden, hiding from Heavenly Father. 369 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,240 I think that that can be a problem for us sometimes. 370 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Isn't that such a great story, Scott? 371 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,000 And we don't know how literal that story is. 372 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,160 We don't know how literal it is, or symbolic it is, or how those events- 373 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,720 The principle remains though. 374 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,040 Yeah, oh, definitely. 375 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,040 Yeah. 376 00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:01,400 So, and I love it, because it's a story about not only how Satan shames us, but the other 377 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:07,080 part of that is he says, look, you're naked. 378 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,080 Yeah. 379 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,040 Meaning, you're exposed. 380 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,160 Truth is, Scott, we're all naked. 381 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,160 Yeah. 382 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,720 In this life, we are all naked. 383 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,200 And we are all exposed to the law. 384 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:30,600 And that without Jesus Christ and the atonement, which again, Kaffar covering- 385 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:31,640 Covering. 386 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,800 We have this covering. 387 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:41,160 And this whole story of Adam and Eve in the garden, and the coats of skin, or the garment 388 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,160 is the covering. 389 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:49,360 Do we, do you think we have any idea or understanding what we're putting on as covenant members 390 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,080 of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when we put on the holy garment? 391 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,640 We're putting on the atonement. 392 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,160 We're putting on the covering of the atonement. 393 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,000 I just think that's so sacred. 394 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:10,200 I don't know why anyone would not want to have that on them at all times, if possible. 395 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:17,720 And it's just such a great story right off the bat in the Garden of Eden about how we're 396 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:23,120 all exposed, we're all ashamed, we all seek to hide. 397 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,120 Think you're right. 398 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,680 That's the natural man in all of us. 399 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,800 But then God says, make coats of skin. 400 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,440 And cover them. 401 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,640 That's the atonement of Jesus Christ that He would provide for us, a Savior. 402 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,080 Well, and that brings us, I think, to the second point here, right, is our gratitude. 403 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,080 Second key. 404 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,080 Yep, the second key. 405 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:51,720 The whole course we've tried to teach is gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ, Scott. 406 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,880 Gratitude is the beginning of desire. 407 00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:03,480 I believe gratitude is that little seed that we plant in our heart in Alma 32, the Word. 408 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,540 That's the Word. 409 00:32:04,540 --> 00:32:10,040 And Alma says it's the Word in the next chapter, in chapter 33. 410 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:17,880 He says, plant this Word in your heart, which is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 411 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:25,960 If we plant that little Word or seed in our hearts, and we begin to feel gratitude for 412 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:32,560 what Jesus did for us, and we understand, and we go to the garden, we go to the foot 413 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:40,160 of the cross, and we get a glimpse of what Jesus suffered, not only for us, but what 414 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,200 He suffered because of us. 415 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:53,760 Oh, gratitude gives us all the desire and all the forward momentum that we need to be 416 00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:00,920 able to move on through the repentance process and the plan of redemption. 417 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:08,440 So number one, again, first key is knowing that we're children of Adam and Eve, fallen, 418 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:14,160 lost, carnal, sensual, and devilish, as the Book of Mormon teaches, all men have fallen. 419 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,400 And that was part of the plan, that God knew that would happen. 420 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:23,400 In fact, last week, I meant to say this week, last week we talked a lot about penal substitution 421 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,400 and how— 422 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,680 As one of the atonement theories. 423 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,880 Yeah, as one of the atonement theories and how some churches see that Jesus Christ fulfilled 424 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:39,680 the wrath of God, or that He had to somehow pay the price to appease the wrath of God. 425 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:46,880 We talked last time about how He wasn't appeasing the wrath of God, but He was making a propitiation 426 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:58,440 for the law, that He was fulfilling the law through His suffering, not the wrath of God. 427 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,920 And if you don't understand the fall, you'll totally miss that. 428 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,560 The reason He wasn't fulfilling the wrath of God is because God knew that we would sin. 429 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,900 It was part of the plan that we would sin. 430 00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:12,280 And it doesn't make Him mad. 431 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:19,400 That Adam and Eve was part of the plan, that He actually, by their agency and in their 432 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,500 own time, that they would fall. 433 00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:25,000 That was all part of the plan. 434 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,240 We're not mad at Adam and Eve because they fell, and yet I think we're the only Christian 435 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:36,400 church that believes that the fall of Adam and Eve was a good thing, and that that was 436 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:43,880 all part of the plan, not a mistake, and that God's still mad at them and mad at us because 437 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,880 of the fall and because we're all sinners. 438 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,000 He's not mad about that, and there's no wrath from God because of that, because that was 439 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,320 part of His plan. 440 00:34:53,320 --> 00:35:00,280 So, to understand the fall also helps us better understand the atonement theories and why we 441 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,720 believe a little differently than others believe about that. 442 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:12,920 But if we could just all understand the atonement of Jesus Christ as the second key, our hearts 443 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,720 would be broken, our spirits contrite, we would feel such love and joy for our Savior 444 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:24,560 and Redeemer that it would give us all the motivation we need, Elder Scott says, the 445 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:33,520 highest motivation is gratitude for Jesus Christ and His atonement to give us the motivation 446 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,760 that we need to work our way through the plan of redemption and repentance. 447 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,440 And even the desire to do it. 448 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,480 Right, from the beginning to the end. 449 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,480 Even the desire. 450 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:48,080 So, when we talk about gratitude, I know that a lot of our listeners over the course of 451 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:55,720 our podcasts have sent emails expressing a newfound or a deepened gratitude for the Savior 452 00:35:55,720 --> 00:36:00,680 and His power through His atonement for us. 453 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:01,680 And I feel that. 454 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,600 But you know, we talk about these things, the fall, that's the first key. 455 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:10,200 The second key is understanding the fall, not just the fall, but understanding the fall. 456 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,200 That's the key. 457 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,200 The doctrine of the fall. 458 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,200 The doctrine, understanding the doctrine of the fall. 459 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,920 And being thankful for that too. 460 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:15,920 Right. 461 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:22,680 And gratitude for that and for the suffering that came or that Jesus went through as He 462 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,800 enacted the atonement for us. 463 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,360 But in order for us to have that gratitude, David, we have to do what you said. 464 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,360 You know, you said at the foot of the cross, when we go to the foot of the cross. 465 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,040 We have to look unto Him in every thought. 466 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,040 Doubt not, fear not. 467 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,920 Behold the wounds that pierce my side. 468 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,520 Behold the prints of the nails of my hands and feet. 469 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:49,640 And Elder Holland, many several years ago now, gave this amazing talk about how he met 470 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,680 a few women in an airport and became familiar with these women. 471 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:59,480 And I think a couple of them out of the three were in the process of getting a divorce because 472 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:05,640 their husbands were addicted to pornography and some of the sadness of all that. 473 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:12,000 And Elder Holland gives this amazing talk about how to focus on Jesus Christ and how 474 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,880 to overcome lust, and talks about the ugly word of lust. 475 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:23,520 And he makes a statement kind of in that, what were those men thinking? 476 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,960 When they look at that stuff, what are they thinking? 477 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,080 Well, they're not thinking about their wives. 478 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,600 They're not thinking about their mothers. 479 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:39,000 They're not thinking especially about Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 480 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,560 Or they wouldn't look at that stuff. 481 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:46,360 They wouldn't have the—now again, we're all carnal—but they would have the desire 482 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,960 if they would think of Jesus Christ and His Atonement, and if they had sufficient gratitude 483 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:58,480 for it, Scott, they would have the desire to not look at that stuff. 484 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:05,520 They would have the desire to do what's right, to be more virtuous, to do good works. 485 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:13,480 Good is the beginning of desire, at least in, I think, in regards to living the law 486 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,160 of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 487 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,920 And if individuals—I know I've experimented with this through my life, tried to observe 488 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:30,120 this in my life—and I know that when sometimes I am not feeling the desire to go to church, 489 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:37,560 keep the commandments, to do what's right, whatever, I always think, okay, what's the 490 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,360 level of my gratitude? 491 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:47,560 And there's an inextricable link, Scott, I've learned, at least for me, there's an inextricable 492 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:55,000 link between the level of my gratitude for Jesus Christ and His Atonement and the level 493 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,760 of my desire to keep the commandments. 494 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,840 I think that's true with all things good. 495 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:08,440 In recovery, one of the things that, for example, I've had this experience with in the last 496 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:16,040 two weeks, I've had a Sponsy call me, not in a great spot, and seemingly hopeless. 497 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,720 And when that's the case, there's a little trick, it's not really a trick, but there's 498 00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:24,480 a little thing that we do in recovery, and that's to encourage each other to make a gratitude 499 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,480 list. 500 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:31,160 And, you know, as part of—I have a book that I do my nightly inventory in, and, you 501 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,760 know, I'm not 100% on it lately, but I do this nightly inventory, and as part of that, 502 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,960 I incorporate a gratitude list, just three or four things. 503 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,800 And I try to do those, and we encourage each other, actually, to do those on things that 504 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,580 maybe aren't as obvious, maybe just stretch ourselves a little bit. 505 00:39:49,580 --> 00:39:57,560 It's really interesting how despair and discouragement really find it difficult to coexist with gratitude. 506 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,520 Yes, yes. 507 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:05,320 And that's true—that's just a true principle throughout life, but it becomes divinely true. 508 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,240 Well, it's all divinely true, but it's especially divinely true when we're talking about our 509 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:14,920 gratitude for Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and everything that that means. 510 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,620 Not just the title, not just what we talk about in Sunday school class, not just what 511 00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:25,000 we talk about or hear about, you know, over the pulpit or from—even from the brethren. 512 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,000 That's all important. 513 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:31,760 But it's when we put the practice in our lives, when we actually start practicing those things, 514 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,080 those principles, where that gratitude becomes more than just something we talk about. 515 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,640 At that point, gratitude becomes almost ineffable. 516 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,160 There's not really words that can be used to describe the power behind that, because 517 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,100 it does shape our desire. 518 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:51,760 And once that desire is shaped, I believe the depth of our desire is equated also to 519 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,240 the depth of our gratitude. 520 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,040 Yes, no doubt about it. 521 00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:01,960 And when we have that deep desire, it moves us into the next key, David, I believe. 522 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,540 Okay, right. 523 00:41:03,540 --> 00:41:05,500 So that we're getting to the third key. 524 00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:13,120 But I remember President Eyring years ago, a prophet, encouraging us to make a list of 525 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:21,200 gratitude, where we see—where did you see the hand of God in your life every day? 526 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,040 So I think that we've been encouraged by the prophets to do that. 527 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:32,760 I know that it's—the Scriptures are full of it, that we should live in thanksgiving—thanksgiving 528 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,720 this month, Scott—that we should live in thanksgiving daily. 529 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:40,920 Oh, I love that in Alma. 530 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:48,160 And it's, you know, in the Doctrine and Covenants as well, the thanksgiving daily. 531 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:54,020 And especially, not all, you know, again, atheists and others can probably be thankful 532 00:41:54,020 --> 00:42:01,760 for people and other things, but really the gratitude that has, I think, the greatest 533 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:09,440 power and influence in our life is when we can focus our gratitude on Jesus Christ and 534 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:10,440 His suffering. 535 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,080 I had an interesting thought today, Scott, driving over here, thinking about Heavenly 536 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,280 Father and the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and some of the things we were going to talk 537 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,220 about today. 538 00:42:21,220 --> 00:42:30,480 And I had this sweet little thought that, you know, Heavenly Father, if He could have, 539 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,080 He would have come down here and died for us. 540 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:39,800 Now, I know for many other Christians who believe in the Holy Trinity that they believe 541 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:48,280 Jesus is the Father and the Father is the Son, and that they're all one. 542 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:53,400 But we know, as members of the Church Jesus Christ, Saturday Saints, that the Father is 543 00:42:53,400 --> 00:43:05,040 a resurrected, holy being, a God who once lived on an earth or wherever, and that He 544 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,100 is a resurrected, holy being. 545 00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:18,280 He couldn't come down here and die for us, but if He could have, He would have. 546 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:29,680 And I often think we don't ponder enough the sacrifice of the Father in offering His 547 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:41,500 holy, precious, only-begotten Son in the flesh, and how hard it would have been as a parent. 548 00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:42,600 We know, right? 549 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:48,680 As a parent, sometimes you'd just rather suffer it yourself. 550 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:54,800 It would just be easier for me to suffer it than to watch my children suffer it. 551 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,600 I know some parents have prayed for that. 552 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,120 Give me their sickness. 553 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,700 I wish I could die in their behalf. 554 00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:05,920 Some parents who have lost children. 555 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:06,920 I know that. 556 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,400 I understand that. 557 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:17,200 We should have one of those couples on our podcast soon who lost their son to brain cancer. 558 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:22,760 And parents have prayed, give me the affliction. 559 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:29,400 I believe the Father, if He could have, He would have taken that upon Himself. 560 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,960 But He couldn't, because He was a resurrected being. 561 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:42,120 But He had this precious Son who, from the very premortal council, grand council in heaven, 562 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,560 said, send me, and I will do it. 563 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,160 The will of the Son swallowed up in the will of the Father. 564 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,840 Not my will, but thine be done, He prayed. 565 00:44:53,840 --> 00:45:03,400 And I just thought, how grateful we should be, I should be, for the sacrifice of the Father, 566 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,400 not just the sacrifice for the Son. 567 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,680 And when I think that, Scott, it fills me with gratitude. 568 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,160 That is unmatched by any other gratitude I believe we could feel. 569 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,600 That's the pinnacle of gratitude in the mortal experience. 570 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,000 That's been my experience at least, right? 571 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,440 And I've experienced a pretty deep depth, I believe, of gratitude for what Heavenly 572 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,440 Father did. 573 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,200 I mean, and Elder Holland talked about, I believe it was Elder Holland talked about 574 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:37,860 how when Jesus hung there on the cross, that Heavenly Father, when He turned and left Him 575 00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:46,120 there alone, how He must have just felt the torments of eternity in that moment. 576 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:55,960 So anyway, gratitude and such a great time of the year for us to contemplate that principle. 577 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,640 That's something I think that we could invite our listeners this week. 578 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,220 It's probably appropriate anyway. 579 00:46:00,220 --> 00:46:03,560 We are in the month of November to kind of focus on gratitude. 580 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:04,560 Where's our gratitude? 581 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:05,960 Where's our level of gratitude? 582 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,560 And if it's not sufficient, and sometimes it's not, that's part of our inventory that 583 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,800 we take, right? 584 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,000 Sometimes my gratitude's lacking. 585 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:20,720 And oftentimes when there's things that are out of sorts or disconcerted in my life, I 586 00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:25,920 struggle sometimes to discover it, which is amazing because I have had experiences to 587 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,000 show me this truth. 588 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,120 Yet I still go back to the natural man and struggle with it. 589 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,160 But if I work on my gratitude, it's interesting how that can be the anecdote to so many other 590 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,760 things in my life that aren't well. 591 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:45,480 Well, since this has kind of become a Thanksgiving podcast, it sounds like, I want to say something 592 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,640 else about gratitude. 593 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,240 You know, Scott, I once heard this came from a student of mine. 594 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,720 And this sweet student raised her hand. 595 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:56,320 And I don't know where she got this. 596 00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,480 I know she gave me the source and I don't have it with me. 597 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,840 But she quoted this line, and I've never forgotten it. 598 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,640 It goes something like this. 599 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:18,200 The highest level of gratitude is to be grateful for blessings that you see but have not yet 600 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:19,200 received. 601 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,640 Now think about that for a minute. 602 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:30,720 The highest level of gratitude are for blessings you see but you have not yet received. 603 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:38,680 The people in the Book of Mormon who looked forward to Christ and His redemption were 604 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,440 so grateful for that. 605 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:47,480 And it gave them desire and motivation even before He had carried out, before He had gone 606 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,320 to the garden, before He. 607 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,960 They could see it because of the teachings of the prophets. 608 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,400 They could see it. 609 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:56,760 They knew about it. 610 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,040 But it hadn't even happened yet. 611 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,760 And yet they were filled with gratitude for that, Scott. 612 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:09,360 In our situation now, the atonement's in the past. 613 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:16,040 We have a pretty complete, more complete historical record of it in the Gospels, in the Book of 614 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,200 Mormon and other places. 615 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,820 Jesus has appeared with marks in His hands and feet. 616 00:48:22,820 --> 00:48:25,880 We know it's in the past. 617 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:34,000 It sometimes is easier, I think, to be grateful for past events and experiences. 618 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:40,680 But the highest level of gratitude is for the future events and experiences. 619 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,040 Now think about this for a minute. 620 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,560 Jesus is coming, Scott. 621 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:57,240 I've been in Adam on Diamond, and I have seen in my mind's eye and with an eye of faith 622 00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:00,520 the coming of Jesus Christ. 623 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,320 And I have been filled with gratitude. 624 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:12,560 And I don't know if it's daily, but I think about that every time I pray. 625 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,840 And I can see it. 626 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,360 I know it's coming. 627 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,640 I know it's real. 628 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:27,800 That level of gratitude for the coming events, of the coming of Jesus Christ, when all of 629 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:35,000 the earth will be changed, and when we'll come to this terrestrial state, and when a 630 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:43,600 resurrection will occur and loved ones reunited, and the Gospel go forth, the gathering continues 631 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,360 in a pace that's not possible here. 632 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,120 When I think about all those future events, Scott, I am filled with gratitude. 633 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:58,400 And further, when I contemplate going to my heavenly home, when I try to see and get a 634 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:10,520 glimpse of heaven and returning to the presence of my Heavenly Father with my children, seeing 635 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:21,640 Him, I think for our listeners it's so important to understand the power of gratitude, thinking 636 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:31,200 about past blessings, daily blessings, Jesus Christ and Him crucified and His atoning sacrifice 637 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:44,880 over almost now 2,000 years ago, but the highest level of gratitude is when we can see blessings 638 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,760 not yet received. 639 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:55,000 And when it comes to my son, Scott, when it comes to your son, when it comes to our children, 640 00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:05,160 since we started talking about that, I think one of the real sources of power in being 641 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:15,320 a parent is not seeing them as they are, but as seeing them as they will become. 642 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:26,440 And I can see my son, he'll have a lot of work to do, and he'll need to exercise faith 643 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:34,080 in Christ and obtain this level of gratitude and understand who he is and whose he is. 644 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:41,720 And I know, I know there's a lot of work here, but I see him. 645 00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:44,360 I see him in white. 646 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,040 I see him in the holy robes of the priesthood. 647 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,280 I see him there. 648 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,320 I know that he's covered. 649 00:51:54,320 --> 00:52:00,920 Now honestly, that is the highest level of gratitude. 650 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:08,760 And that level of gratitude, by my estimation, and I think I'm right on this, can only come 651 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:13,560 one way, and that is through a constant study of courtship. 652 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:18,200 It's a constant study of the atonement of Jesus Christ and a constant courtship of the 653 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,960 spirit of the Holy Ghost in our lives to administer the effects of the atonement in our lives 654 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,400 and in the lives of those that we love. 655 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,000 And even in the lives of those that we don't love. 656 00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,920 We talked about forgiveness and the importance behind that. 657 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,560 That can deepen our gratitude as well. 658 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:43,120 So all of these things, and we probably will just wrap with gratitude today, but all of 659 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:48,000 these things, I think David, we think about that and the gratitude of things that will 660 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,000 come. 661 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,760 Once we've done that, once we've tapped into that power, once we've tapped into that understanding, 662 00:52:53,760 --> 00:53:00,320 once we have courted and we have the spirit of the Holy Ghost in our lives as a constant 663 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,880 companion, that they may always have his spirit to be with them. 664 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,360 Once that's true in our lives, then it's not just the end. 665 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,840 I mean it's even effectively even things in this life. 666 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:18,800 For example, if a person comes that's struggling with an addiction problem, alcohol, drugs, 667 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:26,240 pornography, cutting, bulimia, anorexia, whatever that is, but to know and to have faith that 668 00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:33,680 that can be healed or at least the effects of can be healed only through the atonement 669 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:34,920 of Jesus Christ. 670 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:41,560 The only way that can happen is if we deepen our gratitude because as we learn about that, 671 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,880 that gratitude will just naturally deepen and as that gratitude deepens, that then turns 672 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,600 into faith or hope that those things will actually materialize in our lives. 673 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:57,080 Yes, and the third key, which we don't have time to talk about today, is faith. 674 00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,160 Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement. 675 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:08,840 But there is this connection between our level of gratitude and our level of faith in Jesus 676 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:15,960 Christ and his atonement and it's described perfectly in Hebrews chapter 11. 677 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:21,880 This is the great chapter in the New Testament, Paul's chapter on faith and he talks about 678 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:27,280 the faith of the ancients, the faith of the patriarchs, and he talks about the faith of 679 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,640 Abraham and Sarah. 680 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,680 And in the description that he gives in chapter 11, I don't have my Bible open right here, 681 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:43,680 but I think it's like verse 13 or 14, somewhere in there, it says, they saw from afar off 682 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:51,680 the promises not yet fulfilled. 683 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:59,600 That is the highest level of gratitude and I would say maybe the highest level of faith. 684 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:04,920 And those two things are connected, faith and gratitude, to be able to see things afar 685 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:13,360 off, not yet fulfilled, to have the gratitude of blessings we see with an eye of faith, 686 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,120 but have not yet received. 687 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:25,240 As members of the Church of Jesus Christ and as children of our heavenly parents, you know, 688 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:33,360 we should seek that eye of faith to be able to see the promises that he has in store for 689 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,400 each of us and for each of our children. 690 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,160 I'll just conclude with one quick story. 691 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:49,280 I have a really dear friend, such a sweet man and family, who had a son that was just 692 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:55,680 in all kinds of trouble with addiction and drugs and dealing drugs. 693 00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:00,320 And, you know, it was just really hard and heartbreaking. 694 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:06,200 And he traveled quite a bit in his business and once he was in Chicago and he felt this 695 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:11,840 desire to go to the Chicago temple and he was sad and praying for his son and he went 696 00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:19,140 through the veil and he's in the celestial room and he's praying and he's praying for 697 00:56:19,140 --> 00:56:20,140 his son. 698 00:56:20,140 --> 00:56:26,480 His heart and mind is old as son and he's praying for him. 699 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:34,600 Then he has this impression to look up and look towards the veil. 700 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:43,000 And he looks up and he sees his son dressed in the robes of the priesthood coming through 701 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:48,600 the veil into the celestial room. 702 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:57,160 It was like a vision, a dream, but he's wide awake and he sees this. 703 00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:06,680 We used to have some really difficult talks about his son, Scott, and after that experience 704 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,260 he never worried about his son. 705 00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:12,360 He continued to love him, tried to teach him. 706 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,680 All he worried about really was trying to always maintain a sweet relationship with 707 00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:23,280 him because he could see in the end how it was all going to turn out. 708 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:29,080 That doesn't mean there's not some sorrow and some pain when you see them suffer in 709 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:38,160 the present, but when you can see things so far off, the promise is not yet fulfilled. 710 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,080 Wow. 711 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:47,960 And as individuals who have made covenants and as we keep those covenants, we've been 712 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:56,640 promised that our children will be ours forever and ever. 713 00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:04,400 And I not only have faith in that, but I've received a glimpse of that and we should all 714 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,200 seek to have that experience. 715 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,080 Anyway, so happy Thanksgiving. 716 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,140 Happy Christmas this month. 717 00:58:13,140 --> 00:58:19,800 That's the two of the keys of this course, understanding the fall and increasing our 718 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,800 level of gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ. 719 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,960 Next week we'll talk about the other two keys. 720 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,140 Which are faith and the administration of the Holy Ghost in our lives. 721 00:58:29,140 --> 00:58:32,880 We spent quite a bit of time talking about the administration of the Holy Ghost, so I'm 722 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:38,840 anxious to continue that dialogue because there's so much, and it's so important, there's 723 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:44,920 not a more important topic that we can talk about. As I've lived my life and as I've gone 724 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:51,600 through, as I've chosen many of my challenges and not chosen some of my other challenges 725 00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:59,000 and have come to believe and have faith and gratitude that the atonement of Jesus Christ 726 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:03,360 can heal me of the effects of not just those things that happened to me, but those things 727 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:08,480 that I perpetuated against myself and maybe against other people, especially when it came 728 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:15,840 to and still comes to the separation of the spirit in my life, right? I'm just grateful 729 00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:21,000 since we're talking about gratitude. I'm grateful today to know, to have an understanding of 730 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:26,240 the fall of Adam and Eve, to understand that there is a spiritual death that we are all 731 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:33,480 still very much involved in, that there is a physical death, that we are all, and when 732 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:38,460 we say physical death, I think that just automatically we go to, well, I'm not dead yet, but we're 733 00:59:38,460 --> 00:59:45,240 dying every day, we're dying. We're all deteriorating so faster than others. And so many of our 734 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:51,720 earthly challenges come as a result, not so many, every single earthly challenge that 735 00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:56,240 we have comes as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve, whether that be spiritual or physical. 736 00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,240 I won't go back and say all the things I said at the beginning, but those are all important 737 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:05,880 and it's important for me to understand that because for so much of my life, David, I believed 738 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:10,040 that Heavenly Father was really disappointed in me, even mad at me, even disappointed to 739 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:17,080 the point where it would be like, Scott, don't even bother. But to come to know and understand 740 01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:23,080 that even those difficulties, even sometimes maybe my bad choices, Heavenly Father knew 741 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:30,000 that was happening, he planned for it, and that gratitude that I have for the atonement 742 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:37,400 of Jesus Christ becomes so deep, and I use the word ineffable, which means there are 743 01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:43,120 no words to describe it. My experience with the atonement of Jesus Christ and my gratitude 744 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:51,340 for it is literally ineffable. There are no mortal words to put that can describe the 745 01:00:51,340 --> 01:00:56,080 depth and the importance of that in my life. You know, as we go through the rest of this 746 01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:01,440 month, we are in November, we invite you all, we invite all of us actually to continue to 747 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:06,520 consider the things that we're grateful for. Consider making gratitude lists. Consider 748 01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:11,200 putting on that gratitude list the fall of Adam and Eve and where are the implications 749 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:16,400 and the benefits and the blessings in our lives that come as a result of that fall. 750 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:23,080 And next week as we move into the next two keys of this repentance and forgiveness experience 751 01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:27,520 that we go through, I think that we'll be better prepared to have those conversations 752 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:34,560 if we do that this week. So, hey everybody, have a great week. It's been great. Great 753 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:41,320 to be with you, David. And you as well. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody and look forward 754 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:46,880 to this great holiday season. We have a couple of great episodes that are planned and coming 755 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:52,480 up and in terms of guests. So we look forward to releasing those as they are done as well. 756 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,680 Hey everybody, take care. Remember that you are redeemed through his blood. Remember that 757 01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:02,520 there are very few things in this life that gratitude can't and understanding the fall 758 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,640 of Adam and gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ and for Jesus Christ himself 759 01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,560 and his suffering. There's very few things. There's not actually nothing in this life 760 01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:16,080 that can't be made better by having a deeper and a better understanding of that. God bless. 761 01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:23,080 Take care. We'll see you all next week.