1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,560 Hey everybody, welcome out. This is episode number 30 of our podcast, Redeemed Through 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:12,520 His Blood. I'm Scott Durfey joined by my uncle, our teacher, brother David Durfey 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:17,440 Good to be with you Scott this morning and excited about what we're going to talk about 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:23,040 today and follow up on some of the things that we talked about last time. 5 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,960 So yeah, excited to talk about it as well. Again, we committed that this week we would 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:34,560 talk a lot more about retaining, how to retain the gift of the Holy Ghost. The last couple 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,600 of weeks we've spent time on how to receive and how to recognize this week. We're going 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,720 to focus mostly on how to retain, how to keep that gift with us, Dave. So where do we go? 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:50,120 And what we're really saying, right Scott, is retaining the Holy Ghost, who is the messenger 10 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,240 and the administrator of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. What we're really 11 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:01,000 talking about is how to retain a remission of sins. So retaining the Holy Ghost helps 12 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,160 us to do that. Yeah. Let's talk about what it even means 13 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,840 to retain a remission of sins. I think sometimes when we say that immediately, just like repentance, 14 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:15,720 I think a lot of times people are like, oh, I'm just so reminded of my sins and everything 15 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:22,280 like that, that it kind of may create a little hesitancy in our approach, for example, or 16 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:28,480 something like that. But I think that as we come to know what it really means to repent 17 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,760 and what it really means to apply or be covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ, I think 18 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,880 it helps us to know that if we go back several episodes and we talk about what repentance 19 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,360 is, and it's really an attitude, it's not necessarily, and we should do this, we should 20 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,640 think of each thing in our lives that need to be better and make those better, sure. 21 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:54,760 But repentance is really an attitude. And so with that attitude, what we are trying to 22 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,680 retain is that relationship as we have turned away from our sins and turned and embraced 23 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,240 the Savior Jesus Christ through His atonement, through the Spirit of the Holy Ghost, so that 24 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,560 we can have that peace in our lives and that healing that comes with it. And that's really 25 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,760 what we're talking about here. Yeah, I would say repentance is an attitude, 26 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:19,280 Scott, you're right. It's more than that. It's a change of attitude. It's a change 27 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:29,360 of heart. It's a change of behavior. It's a change of perspective. It changes our life. 28 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:36,600 Repentance is change, and repentance means to be changed through the atonement of Jesus 29 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:43,200 Christ. And I'll just say this really quickly, Scott, but, you know, I had a discussion many 30 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:49,200 years ago back in the Midwest with an institute teacher who believed that retaining a remission 31 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:59,200 of sins was like receiving medical treatment that would put your cancer into remission. 32 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,600 And that's the way he thought about it. He and I had a long discussion about it. And 33 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:13,520 I kind of reject that, because I see repentance and a change in forgiveness that comes through 34 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:22,120 the Holy Ghost as being a complete change of life, the newness of life, a born-again 35 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:31,200 experience, an Alma experience, the Sons of Mosiah experience, and that retaining a remission 36 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:39,120 of sins keeps those—those sins are gone. Those sins are away from us. I really believe 37 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:44,440 the Lord, when He says He forgives us, He really forgives us. And as Doctrine and Covenants 38 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:55,640 58, 42, 43 says, that He remembers our sins no more. Remission of sins can't be compared, 39 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:03,800 I don't think, to remission of cancer or any other sort of disease. Maybe it's appropriate 40 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:10,440 when we're talking about remission and recovery to talk about addictions. And this is kind 41 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:16,400 of the idea. You and I talk about this, I think, a lot. Once an addict, always an addict. 42 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:22,440 Maybe you can explain that from your perspective. By the way, Scott, congratulations. 43 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,440 Thank you. 44 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:24,440 Today's the day, isn't it? 45 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:25,680 Today's the day. 46 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,920 We've been talking about that date since we started this podcast back in April. And it 47 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:38,640 just so happens, and I wasn't thinking about it until I came this morning, but we're doing 48 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:44,000 this podcast on your anniversary. So maybe you can explain that, and maybe you can talk 49 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,480 about once an addict, always an addict, and what that means in the sense of the atonement 50 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,760 of Jesus Christ in the Gospel. 51 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:56,600 Well, I think that's great, because that actually goes hand in hand, coincides quite neatly, 52 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:03,920 actually, with retaining. And so as we will get into that. Oftentimes it's said, and thanks, 53 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,960 by the way, for the acknowledgement. 54 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,960 Well, congratulations. How many years? 55 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:08,960 24 years today. 56 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:09,960 24 years. 57 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,960 24 years of continuous sobriety. 58 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:13,960 24 years. 59 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,320 Yep, yep, 24 years. It's been a great 24 years. 60 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:18,320 It's amazing. 61 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,960 Yeah, what a rebirth. 62 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,760 But you're so old, 24 years is nothing. 63 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,840 No, dropping the bucket. It's just a small fraction of my life. 64 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:28,760 Yeah, 24 years goes by pretty fast. 65 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:29,760 Yeah, and you would know being- 66 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,080 Doesn't seem like that long ago. 67 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,400 And someone being seven years older than me would have a great perspective on that. Anyway, 68 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,480 so we talk about once an addict, always an addict. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. 69 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:48,280 Obviously, those things can be debatable, and they are debatable among some. They don't 70 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:53,520 seem to be that debatable, though, in the rooms of recovery. In those rooms, when I'm 71 00:05:53,520 --> 00:06:01,240 there with other alcoholics, like-minded and all headed in the same direction, and to us, 72 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,880 that doesn't seem that strange. It doesn't seem debatable. We need to, as alcoholics 73 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:13,440 and addicts, and I will say we need to as human beings, we need to recognize that we 74 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:19,440 are just on a process in life where we move forward and we just keep moving forward. But 75 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,420 because of the human condition, which we talked about, came about because of the fall of Adam 76 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:29,080 and Eve, the fall of us all, we talked about that in very early episodes. And I think that 77 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:34,040 as we continue through and continue this on, we'll be bringing that up again here very 78 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,640 soon. But because of all of those things, it's not just a one and done kind of scenario. 79 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,400 And when we talk about a remission of sin, sometimes we think of it that way. But when 80 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:49,800 we compare that to being an alcoholic or an addict, an alcoholic is, this is a disease 81 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:57,840 that can be spiritual and physical. It's mostly spiritual. I mean, it is a disease of spirituality. 82 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:02,680 In the big book of alcoholics, Anonymous, for example, we read that, you know, one that's 83 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:09,800 in remission, okay, from their alcoholism in order to retain that. What it says is what 84 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:17,360 we really have is a daily reprieve based on our spiritual condition. And I think that's 85 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,920 true when it comes to, you know, I think that parallel can be drawn between what we do in 86 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,880 recovery and what we do in our relationship with our Heavenly Father through our Lord 87 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,640 and Savior Jesus Christ too. But that's, I think, Dave, what that, that's what that means. 88 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:31,920 And I think that's how it relates. 89 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:41,160 Well, in recent, right, findings and studies and scientific research, you know, addiction, 90 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:47,760 even being more than a disease, being more than physical is chemical and literally changes 91 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:48,760 the brain. 92 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,440 100% accurate. 93 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:56,560 So when we say addict, always an addict, that may be true until that brain is, I believe, 94 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,760 miraculously through the Atonement of Jesus Christ can be changed back to what it was 95 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:10,040 then, then there may be some truth to that. But I believe it's not a great model to compare 96 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:18,240 addictions or addicts to just sinners and sin. It is true, we're all sinners. Once a 97 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,480 sinner, always a sinner because of mortality and because we're tainted by sin every day 98 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:28,680 because of the world that we live in. All of us see it, all of us have thoughts of it, 99 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:35,280 all of us are affected by it every day. So all of that's true. But I know personally, 100 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:42,720 and I know many others, you and others, know as well that there are some sins that be through 101 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:48,800 the Atonement of Jesus Christ, they're not just in remission, they're gone. They can 102 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:55,120 absolutely be gone and they're far from us, never to be, never to be repeated. They've 103 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:02,680 been completely forsaken and if we forsake them and the Lord doesn't remember them, they're 104 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:03,680 gone. 105 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,600 Yeah, and that brings up a question. I don't know if we want to deal with this right now 106 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:13,560 or not, but that's true about the sin, but the effects of the sin can last for a lifetime. 107 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:18,280 For sure, for sure. But that's covered by the Atonement of Jesus Christ as well. 108 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:24,040 Yeah, I think it's so important that we learn to differentiate between the two because the 109 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:30,920 effects are still evident in my life. It doesn't mean that the sin is still in me. And I think 110 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,440 that sometimes we wrestle with that mentally. I think that that can be an academic or a 111 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,960 mental or even more an emotional wrestle that some of us go through sometimes because how 112 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:47,360 can I be forgiven of a sin when those effects are still so alive and well? I see that in 113 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,000 my own life. I mean, because of the sins that I've participated in throughout my life, there's 114 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,760 a lot of effects that I have to be witness to sometimes on a daily basis. So that differentiation 115 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:58,760 can be tricky. 116 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:04,640 Well, that's where faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement, that's where having an eye 117 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:14,200 of faith and being able to see the things as Christ and God sees them, that those effects 118 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:22,440 do have a limitation. They have a life expectancy and they'll die and there will be a newness 119 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:28,680 of life all because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. They'll be gone to any negative effects. 120 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:35,400 And that even now, even now, some of us suffer the effects of the sins of others and we receive 121 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:42,540 compensatory blessings through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that cover us until those 122 00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:47,600 effects can be completely removed from us. And maybe, I don't know how it works in the 123 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,440 next life, but maybe even in the next life we'll remember them no more too. I know it's 124 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,840 a gift and a blessing that we remember our sins and probably the sins of others so that 125 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,840 we don't make the same mistakes and we don't fall in the same traps as we have in the past. 126 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:10,560 It's good for us to remember. But I know that spiritually speaking, Scott, there have been 127 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:18,400 sins in my life that have been removed from me and that I still remember them, I still 128 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:27,120 have regret, but I feel no guilt. They are not a part of who I am. They are not a part 129 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:36,320 of my life. So, retain a remission of sins. Last time we spoke about what it means to 130 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:44,480 receive the Holy Ghost and I'm sorry, I need to apologize. I got a phone call from a good 131 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,600 friend of ours, family member even, who I made feel really guilty. 132 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,520 Who we love so much. 133 00:11:53,520 --> 00:12:00,560 And he was being half serious and half not and I love him. But I hope I didn't make anybody 134 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:07,640 feel like they needed to be perfect in order to have the Holy Ghost. Because of my recent 135 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:18,680 experience in participating again in giving patriarchal blessings and because of the experiences 136 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:28,760 that I've gone through recently and how I've had to increase my efforts to have, I think, 137 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:37,320 the Holy Ghost with me always. I didn't want anybody to feel guilty or have any expectations 138 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:43,920 of being perfect in this life. I don't think we have to be perfect, Scott, in this life 139 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:49,560 to retain a remission of sins or to retain the gift of the Holy Ghost in our life. I 140 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:58,680 really do take it seriously when we talk about having the Holy Ghost always to be with us. 141 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:06,160 In every sacrament prayer, I think about that, I ponder that. That if we will remember Him 142 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:13,640 and if we will keep His commandments to be with us, that we will always have His Spirit 143 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:20,780 to be with us. And I believe for the most part, Scott, the Holy Ghost does always want 144 00:13:20,780 --> 00:13:27,160 to be with us. I was, as a young missionary, I was really sensitive to the Spirit, as I 145 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:32,160 think most missionaries are, and I had kind of come to the conclusion as a missionary 146 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:38,280 that it's really hard to get the Spirit, at least that was my early experience as a missionary 147 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:47,080 because I probably wasn't worthy and I was struggling with my testimony and everything 148 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:57,080 else as an adolescent. Anyway, I found that it was difficult, a challenge to get the Spirit 149 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:04,800 and a challenge to retain it and really easy to lose it. That was kind of my experience 150 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:14,440 as a missionary. And yet now, all these years, some 50 years, almost 50 years later, I have 151 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:22,480 come to believe just the opposite, Scott. I believe it's pretty simple to get the Holy 152 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,880 Ghost. I know He wants to be with us and I know Heavenly Father wants Him to be with 153 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:35,520 us. And I believe, Scott, that it's pretty hard to lose Him. I mean, I know it's easy 154 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:44,960 not to feel Him. That's different. It's easy for us to maybe not receive Him, but I believe 155 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:53,360 He is always there, always present, always with us, and it's just up to us to qualify 156 00:14:53,360 --> 00:15:02,440 ourselves to feel Him, to ponder and listen and to receive Him in our lives. That's how 157 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:07,080 I think it works. So, I don't think we have to be perfect or sinless to have the Holy 158 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:13,640 Ghost with us, but we do have to be focused. We do have to be focused and we do have to 159 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:22,360 really desire His presence to be with us and then focus our lives on the things that will 160 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,560 help us to recognize Him in our life. 161 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,040 Yeah. Dave, there may be some, and you know, there may be some of our listeners that are 162 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,520 thinking and believing everything that we're saying about this, but there may be also others 163 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:41,120 that are wondering, why is this even so important? Why is it so important that I have the Spirit 164 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,400 of the Holy Ghost or the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost? That almost sounds like 165 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,480 a dumb question to even ask, but I think that it's important probably that we address that 166 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:59,060 to some degree, especially in light of the motive or the motivation behind our podcast 167 00:15:59,060 --> 00:16:00,060 in general. 168 00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:08,360 Absolutely. I have lots of friends, loved ones, you do too, who don't enjoy or have 169 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:17,640 not received the fullness of the Holy Ghost. Scott, really, wow. I heard Elder Bruce Harman 170 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:25,520 Conkey give a talk back in 1981, I think it was April 1981, devotional at BYU, and he 171 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,040 said, you know, if you're going to air, he was talking really about this idea that was 172 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:39,680 going around then about having a special relationship with Jesus, and it was kind of putting the 173 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:46,600 Father on the oust and the Holy Ghost on the oust, and a popular book had been written, 174 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,280 and there were some things about having this special relationship with Jesus that kind 175 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:56,520 of, I don't think, settled quite right with Elder Conkey because he was— 176 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:57,800 I actually remember that. 177 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:04,200 Okay, well, I still have the talk in my file, and I think it was something about being one. 178 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,320 And he says in that talk, I'll never forget this, which I thought was the most important 179 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,800 part of this whole talk, was, you know, if you're going to air in a relationship with 180 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:20,680 the Godhead, you should air in your relationship with the Holy Ghost, because the Holy Ghost 181 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,120 reveals to us the Father and the Son. 182 00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:27,840 The Holy Ghost is a testator of the Father and the Son. 183 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,640 The Holy Ghost will teach us all truth. 184 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,560 If you're going to air in your relationship with the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost, you should 185 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,780 probably focus more on having a relationship with the Holy Ghost. 186 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:44,160 And I think last week we mentioned, but I don't know if we did a good enough job, about 187 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,280 speaking about what it means to have faith in the Holy Ghost. 188 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:54,000 I really think that what that means, at the very least, is that we pray for the gift of 189 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,000 the Holy Ghost. 190 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,520 We think about the gift of the Holy Ghost. 191 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,700 We focus on receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. 192 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:08,160 Faith in the Holy Ghost is no different than obtaining faith in Jesus Christ, and that 193 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,600 is that we focus on Him, that we look unto Him in every thought. 194 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:21,200 I really know that if we are really sensitive, become sensitized by the Spirit and really 195 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:27,240 seek Him in our lives, that's how we exercise and that's how we obtain and increase our 196 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,560 faith in the Holy Ghost, is to live by the Spirit. 197 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:39,480 So as we do these things, Scott, we can retain a remission of our sins. 198 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:45,720 And it's interesting that that phrase, retaining a remission of our sins, is quite unique in 199 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:54,000 our restoration theology and unique in the writings of the prophets in the Book of Mormon. 200 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,240 It appears three or four times, I think, in the Book of Mormon, and maybe we can look 201 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,240 at those verses now, Scott. 202 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,360 Yeah, yeah. 203 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:06,320 So we have a couple of verses, right, in the Book of Mormon that talk about that. 204 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,400 Do you want to start with the one in Mosiah, Dave? 205 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,320 Yeah, let's go to Mosiah 4, 11 and 12. 206 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:13,320 I'll read it. 207 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,800 Mosiah 4, chapter 4, verses 11 and 12. 208 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,440 Now, there's a whole bunch around this. 209 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:25,840 If I were to sit down with this today, and after listening or doing this podcast, I would 210 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,400 probably just go through the entire chapter. 211 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,400 But this is where it begins in verse 9, where it says, Believe in God, believe that He is 212 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,480 and that He created all things, both in heaven and in earth. 213 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,440 And it goes on and talks about the importance behind that. 214 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:41,440 Now, we go to 11. 215 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:47,160 And again, I say unto you, as I have said before, that as ye have come to a knowledge 216 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:53,800 of the glory of God, or if ye have known of His goodness and have tasted of His love, 217 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:00,780 and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in 218 00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:04,400 your souls, even so, I would that you should remember. 219 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,320 Yeah, let's pause just a moment, Scott. 220 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,040 So you ask, why do I want the Holy Ghost? 221 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,840 Great joy. 222 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,160 It brings us a joy that we can't experience in any other way. 223 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,120 I'm not talking about pleasure. 224 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:21,600 I'm not even talking about happiness. 225 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:31,680 I'm talking about a deep, lasting joy, and exceedingly great joy in your souls. 226 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:38,280 That's what the Holy Ghost brings, and all of these things are possible, including the 227 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,120 Holy Ghost Himself, because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which is possible because 228 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,720 of the gift of Heavenly Father's Son to us. 229 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,200 So these three, the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, are inseparable. 230 00:20:52,200 --> 00:21:00,040 But as you begin to read now, you just read, I would that ye should remember. 231 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:07,720 That is the first qualification to retain the forgiveness of our sins, is to remember. 232 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,040 And remember what? 233 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:16,880 Well, always remember and always retain in remembrance the greatness of God and your 234 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:22,040 own nothingness and His goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures. 235 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:23,520 There's number one. 236 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Yeah. 237 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:25,520 Yeah. 238 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,000 And I think, you know, I'm going to pause right there for a second, too, because the 239 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,480 questions asked and have tasted of His love very early on in verse 11 there, and then 240 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,880 have received a remission of His sins. 241 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,960 How many of us, and I think that this is pretty common when I talk to people who are in dire 242 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:46,680 straits, you know, I'm currently working with several alcoholics as a sponsor in recovery 243 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:52,400 programs, and this is just one of the things I think that as humans we crave, without maybe 244 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,920 even sometimes knowing that, but that is to feel God's love for us. 245 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,280 And that can look like different things to each of us, but in anything positive in our 246 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:07,360 lives when we're feeling that, that's God's love being shown to us. 247 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,840 And so, tasted of His love, and I'm going to go back, and received a remission of your 248 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,200 sins which caused us such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that you 249 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,800 should remember. 250 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,340 And always retain in remembrance the greatness of God and your own nothingness and His goodness 251 00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:27,360 and long-suffering towards you unworthy creatures. 252 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:35,200 And humble yourselves, humble yourselves in the depths, even in the depths of humility, 253 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,080 calling on the name of the Lord daily. 254 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,840 Calling on the name of the Lord daily, that's number three. 255 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,080 Here comes number four. 256 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:53,920 And standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken of by the 257 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,440 mouth of the angel. 258 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,680 And that is the atonement of Jesus Christ, because this scripture, the context of this 259 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:07,640 chapter is it's looking forward to Christ and His atoning sacrifice. 260 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:14,940 So it's saying there, standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, well, 261 00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:24,480 we should stand steadfastly in those events that occurred when Christ in His last few hours, 262 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:33,880 days and week of His life suffered for all of our sins, paid the price, met the demands 263 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,840 of justice. 264 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,760 We need to stand steadfastly in the faith of those events. 265 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:45,600 Then, so that's four things, remember the greatness of God and our nothingness, right? 266 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:52,000 Humble ourselves in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, even 267 00:23:52,000 --> 00:24:00,760 multiple times maybe a day, and then standing steadfastly in the faith of Christ's atonement. 268 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,320 And then verse 12 says. 269 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,600 And 12 is a promise. 270 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:05,600 This is great. 271 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,600 This is the promise. 272 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,520 And behold, I say unto you, that if you do this, you shall always. 273 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,520 And I love that. 274 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:19,120 I love when I read the word always, and it's followed by a word like rejoice, especially 275 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,360 when it's in a promise from a prophet, from God. 276 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:23,360 I love that. 277 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:29,320 And if you, and behold, I say unto you that if you do this, you shall always rejoice and 278 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:35,200 be filled with the love of God and always retain a remission of your sins. 279 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:42,280 And you shall grow in the knowledge of the glory of Him that created you or in the knowledge 280 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,200 of that which is just and true. 281 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,000 Progression. 282 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,440 We can always rejoice and we always retain a remission of our sins if we do those four 283 00:24:53,440 --> 00:25:00,640 things that he talks about in verse 11, and yet we're still growing and in our understanding 284 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,280 and in our knowledge of the plan of redemption. 285 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,880 So I think Dave, too, also, if you go beyond just those two verses and you go to verses 286 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,880 13 through even, I don't know, for quite a while here through at least 16, it will tell 287 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,280 us and it shows us how that we can recognize that those things are happening in our life. 288 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:28,300 We can recognize by these few things that are that are taught here, whether or not we 289 00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:29,840 have that spirit. 290 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,720 And so, for example, in 14, he says, you will not suffer your children if they go hungry 291 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,880 or naked, neither will you suffer that they transgress any of the laws of God and then 292 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:38,880 going down to 15. 293 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,720 But you will teach them to walk and walk in the ways of truth and soberness. 294 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,720 And it goes on. 295 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,800 And so this is the effects when we have the when we have the spirit with us and we're 296 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:53,400 retaining that we can know that that's happening in our lives by the way our relationships 297 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,960 are working, by the way our behavior is, by especially our relationship with our Heavenly 298 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:58,960 Father. 299 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,800 Yeah, and our fellow men. 300 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,840 We don't love our brothers than we don't love God, according to John in First John. 301 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:13,520 I heard an apostle once many years ago, Scott, he is in kind of a priest leadership meeting 302 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,020 and he asked a question. 303 00:26:15,020 --> 00:26:16,020 How do you know? 304 00:26:16,020 --> 00:26:18,940 How do you really know if a person is converted? 305 00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:25,680 How do you really know if he's experienced the atonement of Jesus Christ in his life? 306 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,600 And how do you know if he's been forgiven and retaining a remission of his sins and 307 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,560 filling the Holy Ghost? 308 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,560 How do you know that? 309 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:39,680 And people raising their hands and giving all kinds of answers, Scott, and this went 310 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,640 on for, I don't know, several minutes. 311 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,520 And finally he said, well, I love all of your answers. 312 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,320 And they're all partially true. 313 00:26:51,320 --> 00:27:00,680 But he said for me, the number one evidence that a person has truly been converted to 314 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:07,280 the Lord Jesus Christ in his atonement has the Holy Ghost, has received a remission of 315 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:17,600 sins and retaining a remission of sins, it is how they treat their fellow men. 316 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:24,160 I think he based that on Mosiah chapter four here, because he talks about the beggar and 317 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,720 giving to the poor. 318 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,320 And you know, Scott, it's kind of the litmus test, as I've thought about that over the 319 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:40,460 years, is how do I really feel towards my fellow men and not just those that I get along 320 00:27:40,460 --> 00:27:42,760 with or that I have things in common with. 321 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,240 No, that's easy. 322 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,760 I'm talking about beggars. 323 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,600 I'm talking about the marginalized. 324 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,720 I'm talking about minorities. 325 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,320 I'm talking about majorities. 326 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,800 I'm talking about people who maybe I don't have anything in common with, including my 327 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:00,800 enemies. 328 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,120 Yeah, and that's the harder one right there, the enemies one. 329 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,080 I mean, it's not easy. 330 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,760 I won't probably go so far as to say it's easy. 331 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,480 For some it is, I think, to take care of those that are marginalized and take care of the 332 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,480 homeless and the poor and all that, but it's our enemy. 333 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,400 It's those that have offended us. 334 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:28,000 If we really have the love of God in us, which is what he just described, right? 335 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,800 That we will always retain, not only remission of our sins, but we'll retain the love of 336 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,240 God. 337 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,640 That's how we know we're retaining the remission of our sins. 338 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,080 What does that look like? 339 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:48,480 We will love others, and we will help others to feel the love of God through us. 340 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,960 That apostle, which happened to be Marvin J. Ashton, believed that that was the greatest 341 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,560 evidence in sign, and he was a great example of that. 342 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,320 Yeah, indeed he was. 343 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,760 Well there's another great scripture in Mosiah chapter 4, after describing the beggar and 344 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:09,640 do we impart our substance to others, he says in verse 26. 345 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,440 You want to read that one? 346 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,640 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you, that is, for the sake 347 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,840 of the retaining and remission of your sins from day to day, I think that's important. 348 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,840 From day to day. 349 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,520 From day to day, every day, every minute, every day. 350 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,400 This isn't just a one and done. 351 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,960 This isn't just, again, retaining and remission of sins, but retaining the gift of the Holy 352 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:35,960 Ghost. 353 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,960 And the love of God. 354 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:37,960 Okay. 355 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,520 For you may walk, let me just start over. 356 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,340 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you, that is, for the sake 357 00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:50,960 of retaining and remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before 358 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,880 God, I would, that ye should impart of your substance to the poor. 359 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:01,480 Every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, 360 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:09,400 visiting the sick, and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according 361 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,840 to their wants. 362 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,760 And then verse 27, see that all these things are done in wisdom and in order. 363 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:25,400 Well, I think that means we don't go around giving cash to everybody who's asking for 364 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:34,040 it, that we have to use wisdom, and it has to be done in order when we are giving to 365 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,320 the poor and giving of our substance. 366 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:42,600 I think that's a really important line, first line of the next verse. 367 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:49,400 But I think that we spoke about this some episodes ago, Scott, about this being an important 368 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,120 part of repentance, the very process of repentance. 369 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,200 And we talked about it in terms of making restitution, that the way we try to make restitution, 370 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,760 which is one of the really important parts of the process of repentance, is that we try 371 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:10,480 to give back to Jesus what He has done for us. 372 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:17,520 And the way we do that best is, inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, my 373 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:29,440 brethren, ye have done it unto me, Matthew 25, that amazing parable on feeding the hungry, 374 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,880 clothing the naked, visiting those in prison. 375 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:41,800 And that's how we make restitution, and we should be continually in a state of repentance, 376 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:49,880 continually making restitution, trying to serve Jesus by serving our fellow men. 377 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,960 This is an important part of the process. 378 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:58,800 This is not only how we receive a remission of sins, but how we retain a remission of 379 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,600 sins, a really important part of it. 380 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,600 Yeah, it is. 381 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:08,000 I'm going to take just a little bit of a diversion here, and we're going to go back into the 382 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,800 realms of recovery. 383 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:16,080 You know, when we have new folks, and I was new once 24 years ago, I was brand new. 384 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,320 But when we have new people come in, one of the things that is really important for us, 385 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,360 you know, first off, let me just say this. 386 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,480 The first three steps in Alcoholics Anonymous, or any recovery program, are the first one 387 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,080 is we recognize we can't, that we're powerless over whatever our addiction is. 388 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,440 The second one is that we believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity. 389 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,400 And there's an assumption there that we were once saved in order for something to be restored. 390 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,120 And for some of us, that may go all the way back to the pre-existence. 391 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:53,200 Well, you just described Mosiah 411, remember the greatness of God and remember your own 392 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,200 nothingness, you unworthy creatures. 393 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,200 Yep. 394 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,880 And then three, we make a decision to turn our will and our life over to the care of 395 00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:59,880 God. 396 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,120 Broken heart and contrite spirit encapsulated there. 397 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:08,400 But once that's taking place, and once somebody is in the rooms of recovery and in the 398 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,640 program and living this life, oftentimes it feels difficult because of the buffeting of 399 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:15,800 the enemy. 400 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,200 And for various other reasons. 401 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,280 A lot of it has to do with chemical, we talked about that, a lot of those things. 402 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,560 But what we have learned, what we have found early on, and we didn't find this, this is 403 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,880 an eternal truth, but what we discovered is an eternal truth early on. 404 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,920 And when I say we, I wasn't the one making the discovery, it was made many, many, many, 405 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,340 many decades ago. 406 00:33:34,340 --> 00:33:41,440 But this was, and it falls right in line with what we're saying here, service is the answer. 407 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:46,400 If somebody calls me, and it's not every time, but if somebody calls me and they're just 408 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,620 really struggling, a lot of times my directive will be go get in service, go find somebody 409 00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:56,480 to serve, go serve this person who needs that, go serve this person who needs this. 410 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:03,280 And what that does, we found, and it does, without fail, it will keep somebody, keep 411 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,440 their feet walking on the path of recovery. 412 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,720 But the reason it does that is because that aligns us with God's love for others. 413 00:34:09,720 --> 00:34:14,760 It puts us as an instrument in His hands to show His love to them. 414 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,520 Therefore, we're feeling that love ourselves. 415 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:23,040 When we're feeling that love ourselves, then we're feeling remission from whatever that 416 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,880 might be that has taken us off track, and we now have His Spirit in our lives. 417 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,340 And then we can really start focusing on what that means and what that is, which is nothing 418 00:34:32,340 --> 00:34:36,640 less than the Atonement of Jesus Christ at work in our lives, Dave. 419 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,760 Well, thank you, Scott. 420 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:46,680 Service is really important, and there's many ways and avenues and methods and means that 421 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,480 we can serve others. 422 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:53,640 But I'm thinking about all of the great born-again experiences and conversion stories that we 423 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:59,060 read in the Book of Mormon and in the New Testament and that we know about personally 424 00:34:59,060 --> 00:35:05,740 in our lives and others, is that when you really experience that love of God, that remission 425 00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:13,080 of sin, that forgiveness, and the gift of the—when you experience all of that, I think 426 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,440 the first desire you have is to share it with others. 427 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:25,480 And maybe the highest level or form of service is in the sharing of the Atonement of Jesus 428 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:32,460 Christ and ministering the Atonement of Jesus Christ in the lives of others, to be more 429 00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:35,640 effective in ministering. 430 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:43,000 And what I really believe ministering means is not just giving bread or cookies, even 431 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,240 though I think that's a great way to minister. 432 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:53,080 But ultimately, if ministering is not attached to the ministering of Jesus Christ into the 433 00:35:53,080 --> 00:36:00,960 lives of others or sharing the love of God into the lives of others, then it's not really 434 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,240 Christian ministering. 435 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:08,200 And so I love what you're saying, and I know that it's true when I think of Alma. 436 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:14,800 The first thing he wanted to do was to go preach the Word and share the gospel with 437 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,800 others. 438 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:16,800 And—sorry. 439 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,800 Enos. 440 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:29,120 And Enos, Scott, the first thing he wanted to do was pray for his brother in the Nephites, 441 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,520 and then he prayed for his enemies, the Lamanites. 442 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:38,720 Again, the greatest evidence that we have that somebody has really experienced this, 443 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:44,680 and perhaps not just the evidence or the sign of their conversion, Scott, but your saying 444 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:52,640 in what you just shared, the greatest way to retain that experience, remission, love 445 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,600 of God, is by giving it away and serving others. 446 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,240 That's exactly what I'm saying. 447 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:01,240 That's exactly it. 448 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:05,800 Because, you know, we were—you know, last—a couple weeks ago we said we can't do many 449 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,520 more things more Christ-like than forgiving others. 450 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,680 Well, maybe if there was one, it would be to serve others, right? 451 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,800 I mean, and that's—it's all part of service. 452 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,480 I mean, that's the whole purpose to which he was born, was to serve, to serve us, to 453 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:27,240 serve—and so I think that when we align our lives with his, when we strive to have 454 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:33,360 our will and our lives swallowed up by his will, their will, then I think that that's 455 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,960 how it manifests itself, is in the way—you know, the way we treat others and the way 456 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:38,960 that we serve others. 457 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,960 Yeah. 458 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,360 I don't want to embarrass you, but approximately, maybe you know, maybe there's a number. 459 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,840 How many people have you sponsored? 460 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:53,840 Because I think sponsoring in the right—the programs of recovery— 461 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:54,840 Yeah, yeah. 462 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:55,840 Yeah. 463 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:56,840 Is an important way to do that. 464 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,840 Yeah. 465 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:58,840 I don't know how many it is. 466 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,960 I know right now I'm currently sponsoring about 11 men who are very active and working 467 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:04,960 their program. 468 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,640 Over the years it's been—I don't know. 469 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,640 And what a blessing to those men, but more so almost what a blessing to you. 470 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:13,640 Yeah, and that's just it. 471 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,160 That's why you've got 24 years today. 472 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,120 That's exactly what I tell others. 473 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,360 You know, when I'm working with a new alcoholic—and when I say new, I don't mean to be demeaning 474 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,320 or condescending anyway, but just somebody who has less time. 475 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,680 For example, I'm working with a couple of gentlemen now who are sponsoring other people 476 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:34,680 themselves. 477 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,960 You know, they have six years, seven years, five years, I don't know, whatever. 478 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:43,040 But oftentimes they'll call me with discouragement around what's happening with one of their, 479 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,720 what we call, sponsees, somebody that they're sponsoring. 480 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:48,080 Oh, how do I handle this? 481 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,760 And I just say, time out for just a second. 482 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,760 You need to remember the reason you sponsor them is for you. 483 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,720 That's how we keep the program in our lives. 484 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:04,480 You know, so we can't put a lot of energy in the reception of our sponsorship. 485 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:10,120 We can't put—we can't decide, hey, I'm successful or I'm a failure. 486 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:16,280 First off, we don't use those words, but we can't determine that based on the way a sponsee, 487 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,840 for example, may be behaving or misbehaving, as it were. 488 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,640 But you know, I always teach that, that, you know, it's important that you remember the 489 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,720 reason you sponsor other people. 490 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:28,960 That's for your program. 491 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,480 Obviously, there's benefit. 492 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,200 Well, keeping the gospel of Jesus Christ in our life is the same, right? 493 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,120 Exactly the same. 494 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,080 If we want to keep it or we want to strengthen our testimonies, we have to share them. 495 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,080 We have to bear them. 496 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,760 We have to give them away. 497 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:52,120 This is my experience throughout my life in teaching the gospel, is the teacher is always 498 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,600 more benefited than the students. 499 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:04,680 And we bear our testimonies to find and strengthen and to receive more testimony. 500 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,520 So it's the same principle, whether we're talking about recovery or— 501 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,760 Or ministering in the gospel. 502 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:10,760 Or ministering in the gospel. 503 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,760 Yeah. 504 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,920 Yeah, part of my stewardship that I currently have is a calling is I'm over the ministering 505 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,280 in our ward, and it's the same principle. 506 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:23,200 You know, if I can get the elders in our quorum to realize that understanding ministering 507 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:30,560 is just another way of me being like Him, being like Jesus, the way it's received, 508 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,800 really, the outcome of the ministering, or the perceived outcome, I should say, of the 509 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,360 ministering is really not what's important. 510 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,960 What's important is the actual act and the actual behavior and relationship with our 511 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,040 Heavenly Father and Jesus as we're doing it. 512 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,120 That's what really matters. 513 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,280 That's what's important. 514 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:55,440 As we go through the process of repentance and seeking to access the power of Jesus Christ 515 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:02,840 and His Atonement in our life, Scott, if we do it right, you know, we feel the love of 516 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:08,240 the Father in the sacrificing of His Son. 517 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:15,560 We are filled with the love of the Savior for the suffering, the price that He paid 518 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:23,520 for us, that He carried out for us, and we feel the love from the Holy Ghost, Minister, 519 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,920 Mercy and Grace and love into our life. 520 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:36,400 There's this principle, this principle of reciprocity in the Gospel, which is if you 521 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,320 give it away, it comes back to you. 522 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,320 If I give grace, I get grace. 523 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,480 It's called grace for grace, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 93. 524 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:52,040 If I give mercy, sermon on the mount, then I receive mercy. 525 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:58,960 If I give love, Mosiah, Chapter 4, I get back love. 526 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,880 If I give forgiveness, I am forgiven. 527 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:12,920 There's this principle, the eternal principle of the Gospel that says if we will offer it 528 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,160 to others, it always comes back to us. 529 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:23,080 That's even taught, I think, in Ecclesiastes, you know, you cast your bread upon the water, 530 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,280 then it always comes back to you. 531 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,280 Yeah. 532 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:33,520 It's an eternal truth, and it's, you know, I hear men in the secular world talking about 533 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,640 that as well in the business world, you know, the law of the harvest and the law of reciprocity 534 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,900 and all those things, but it is an eternal truth. 535 00:42:41,900 --> 00:42:45,520 We put that good out, and it comes back. 536 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,960 It'll always come back to us some way or another. 537 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,980 Oftentimes, for me, Dave, oftentimes it comes back in tender mercies that I get to witness 538 00:42:51,980 --> 00:42:54,480 through members of my family. 539 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,200 Yeah, absolutely. 540 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:05,120 Well, let's turn to another passage on what it takes to retain a remission of sins, and 541 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,880 this is in, I think, Verse 13 and 14 of Alma, Chapter 4. 542 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,240 The church is kind of struggling. 543 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:20,920 Alma's about ready to give up his chief judgmanship to go out and to be a full-time high priest 544 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,120 and preach the Gospel, because the church has become very proud. 545 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:30,840 The church has become very rich, and now there's great inequality in the church and out of 546 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:37,800 the church, and Alma makes this interesting observation in Verse 13 and 14. 547 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,120 He says, Now this was a great cause for lamentations among the people. 548 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,000 In other words, the inequality and pride of the people. 549 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:53,680 Others were abasing themselves, suckering those who stood in need of their sucker, such 550 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:59,480 as imparting their substance to the poor and the needy, feeding the hungry and suffering 551 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:07,120 all manner of afflictions, for Christ's sake, who should come according to the spirit of 552 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,120 prophecy. 553 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,240 Now, get this, Verse 14. 554 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:22,480 Looking forward to that day, meaning Christ's day, the day of atonement, the week of atonement, 555 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:30,880 looking forward to that day, thus retaining a remission of their sins, being filled with 556 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:38,080 great joy because of the resurrection of the dead, which hadn't even happened yet, according 557 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:44,080 to the will and power and deliverance of Jesus Christ from the bands of death. 558 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:52,520 So I think here's another key to retaining the gift of the Holy Ghost and to retain a 559 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,460 remission of sins. 560 00:44:54,460 --> 00:45:02,440 We must look forward to the coming of Christ, His second coming I'm talking about now, and 561 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:11,680 we must look back and remember, always remember, the atonement of Jesus Christ to keep again 562 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:17,640 that commandment that He gives us in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 6. 563 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:26,740 Look unto me, He says, in every thought, doubt not, fear not, behold the wounds that pierce 564 00:45:26,740 --> 00:45:32,680 my side and the nails of the prince in my hands and feet. 565 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:43,160 Scott, as we remember, we retain, and as we look forward to the coming of Christ, the 566 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:52,640 resurrection and the judgment of God and of all men, we can retain. 567 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,400 It's where is our focus? 568 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,680 Is our focus on our sins? 569 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,520 We're to retain a remission of sins when you're focused on your sin. 570 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,160 Our focus should not be on our sin. 571 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:15,220 Our focus should be on Jesus Christ suffering for our sins. 572 00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:23,680 Our focus should be on helping others to be able to learn the principles of repentance 573 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,560 and the plan of redemption. 574 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:38,600 I think if we don't focus, then maybe we're being challenged in our ability to remember. 575 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:39,920 We're not remembering. 576 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,320 If we're not able to focus on those things, then we're really not probably remembering. 577 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:49,400 And then the other thing that comes into my mind, Dave, as we talk about this, to remember 578 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,440 that, there's a connotation there that we once knew. 579 00:46:53,440 --> 00:47:01,080 So sometimes for some of us, that might be an invitation to get to know even better, 580 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:06,640 to dive deeper into that remembering or into that knowledge so that when we say remember, 581 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:13,080 to have that remembering, to enjoy that, to have that well and alive in our lives, we 582 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,240 really need to know. 583 00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:20,260 We need to go back to and have that experience with, like you've often said, when we hit 584 00:47:20,260 --> 00:47:24,240 our rock bottom, we need to really visit Him in His rock bottom. 585 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:25,360 We need to get a glimpse. 586 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,360 We do. 587 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,360 We need to get a glimpse. 588 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:28,360 We need to cry out. 589 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,360 We need to invite. 590 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,760 We need to live our lives aligned with His so that we can have this remembering in our 591 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:34,760 lives. 592 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,080 What a sweet remembering it is though when we do. 593 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:44,000 When our focus is on Jesus Christ and His atonement, when we go to the Garden of Gethsemane 594 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,560 and we see Him there and we go stand at the foot of the cross and we see Him there, or 595 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:58,080 if we could, to get a glimpse of all that He has done for us, it really changes not 596 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:05,360 just how we think, not just how we feel, but it changes our behaviors. 597 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:11,880 So I think that this is a really important aspect that Alma brings up to all of the church 598 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:17,400 about how to retain the gift of the Holy Ghost and remission of sins. 599 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:24,280 And on that point, Scott, every Sunday, every Sunday when we gather around the sacrament 600 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:33,320 table and we partake of that sacred, holy ordinance of partaking of the sacrament, every 601 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:40,680 time that prayer is offered, I think about these principles that we promise that if we 602 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:49,200 will partake of the sacrament and we always make this covenant to always remember Him 603 00:48:49,200 --> 00:49:01,200 and to keep His commandments, then we will always have His Spirit, and that means forgiveness 604 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,840 of sin, to be with us. 605 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:12,240 When we have the Holy Ghost, we know the Atonement is working in our lives, so when we make a 606 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:18,240 covenant and receive the promise that if we will always remember Him and strive to keep 607 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:24,320 His commandments, that we will always have His Spirit to be with us. 608 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,080 And if you think about that, you know, a lot of times, and this is my experience as Deb 609 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:34,680 and I teach Institute at Young Single Adults' Stake at BYU each week, you know, one of the 610 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:41,840 things that comes up is, you know, the Atonement is great for my sin, but you talk about it, 611 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,600 they say this to Deb and I, you talk about this, Brother and Sister Durfee, like we can 612 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:51,440 use the Atonement to heal so much more in our lives, which is actually true, you know, 613 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:56,320 and so for those of us who are struggling with, and I'm not going to start listing them 614 00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:01,800 because there are so many reasons and so many things in this life that we struggle with 615 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:07,120 personally and as cultures and as families and as nations and everything else. 616 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,360 Well, the answer to all of those problems, Dave, is having His Spirit to be always to 617 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,720 be with us. 618 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:17,640 All of those problems, not just our sins, I mean, that's an extremely important component 619 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:24,060 of it, but we need to feel His Spirit with us always so that we can deal with the loss 620 00:50:24,060 --> 00:50:30,880 of a loved one, so we can deal with a child who may wander, so we can deal with some forms 621 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:38,080 of mental illnesses, depression, anxiety, loneliness, and I could go on. 622 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,680 Moment by moment. 623 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:40,680 That's it. 624 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:46,080 Every day of our life, we need the Holy Ghost to be with us. 625 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:47,340 Always to be with us. 626 00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:49,480 To always be with us. 627 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:55,680 And this partaking of the sacrament, Scott, which is, I think, I think the brethren have 628 00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:01,800 referred to it as the most sacred ordinance of the Church, you know, thinking back to, 629 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:10,800 I think it was the year 2000 or 2002, right after the turn of the 21st century, President 630 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,360 Nelson, who was then an apostle, gave a talk in a leadership, worldwide leadership training 631 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:24,480 meeting about the sacrament, and I enjoy reviewing that every once in a while, and he talked 632 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,800 about how to prepare to partake the sacrament. 633 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:32,720 I think Elder Holland also gave a conference talk on this not too long ago, a few years 634 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:43,560 ago, and they talked about being on time, going there prepared, looking, cleaning, cleaning 635 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:51,080 yourself physically, cleaning yourself spiritually through repentance, beginning Saturday night, 636 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:55,920 you know, and it seems like we used to do this better in the old days when I was a little 637 00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,800 boy about taking our Saturday night baths and preparing for Sunday, and there's a beautiful 638 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:02,800 little primary. 639 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,200 Saturday was a special day. 640 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:05,200 There you go. 641 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,880 A little primary, right, song. 642 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,620 The day we get ready for Sunday. 643 00:52:08,620 --> 00:52:14,160 About preparing for Sunday, and that we need to make preparation for it, and we need to 644 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:22,420 go to that meeting and that sacrament table, repentant and striving to be clean and to 645 00:52:22,420 --> 00:52:28,000 receive the elements of the Lord's flesh and blood. 646 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:33,840 I mean, Scott, we would never be late for that meeting if we really knew what we were 647 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:34,840 doing. 648 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:40,640 Now, I know there's challenges with that, with little ones and circumstances, and I 649 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:49,600 know that, but too often times it's not really understanding the sacred nature of that ordinance 650 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:59,640 that kind of takes away from our preparation, and if we would really prepare for it and 651 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:11,520 go there expecting to take into ourselves and remember His suffering and partake of His flesh, 652 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:18,560 and then partake of that little cup of water which represents and symbolizes His blood. 653 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:25,480 You know, I've always found these verses to be really, really sobering in St. John, chapter 654 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:31,280 6, Scott verse 53, starting with verse 53. 655 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:39,480 He says, then Jesus said unto them, so these are the words of Christ, Verily, verily, that's 656 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:47,720 big when there's two verilys, verily, verily I say unto you, accept ye eat the flesh of 657 00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:56,520 the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 658 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:03,840 Who so eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life? 659 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,200 Wow! 660 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:11,160 And I will raise him up at the last day, for my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink 661 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:22,920 indeed, he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me, and I in him. 662 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,720 That's amazing to me, that passage. 663 00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:30,440 That if we just, do you take that literally, Scott? 664 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:40,840 That if we worthily strive to worthily partake of the flesh and blood, the sacrament of Jesus 665 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:45,400 Christ weekly, that we'll have eternal life. 666 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,800 Yeah, I do take that literally. 667 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:54,520 And I haven't always perhaps, maybe I've approached the sacrament table with some casualness in 668 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,360 the past, you know, when I say in the past, I mean years past. 669 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:07,640 But recently, David, Deb and I both have just made a concerted, conscientious effort that 670 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,040 when the sacrament is passed, that we're prepared. 671 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:17,240 We be either fasted, and you know, we don't do that every week, and you know, and I hesitate 672 00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:21,440 to get into what we do, because I'm not laying a pattern of righteousness here. 673 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,400 I'm just laying a pattern of what Scott and Deb do to prepare, or what Scott, I should 674 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,440 just speak for myself, what Scott does to prepare for the sacrament. 675 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,680 But I do do that. 676 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:38,480 My prayer Saturday night is very much focused on what will be taking place the next day. 677 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,560 And I'm not talking about the many meetings that I'm going to be in the next day. 678 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:47,280 I'm talking about that sacred moment where we take of the blood and we partake of the 679 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:53,360 flesh of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, so that we can have this, so that He can be 680 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,880 with me, so that He can be with us. 681 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,200 And as we do that, boy, our lives are different. 682 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:05,400 In Malachi, you know, where the Lord says, you know, prove me now herewith, when He's 683 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,600 talking about tithing, and He's talking about paying tithing. 684 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,760 And you know, if you don't believe me, try me out. 685 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,720 That's what He means by prove me now herewith. 686 00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,740 You know, I would say that that invitation should be extended. 687 00:56:15,740 --> 00:56:18,840 In fact, I'm going to extend that right now to all of us. 688 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,600 You know, let's prove that out this week. 689 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,000 Let's, as we partake of the sacrament, let's go in just a little more conscientious of 690 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:26,160 what we're doing. 691 00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,120 Let's go in just a tiny bit more prepared. 692 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:35,400 Let's try and align our spirits in our lives completely to be more aligned with our Heavenly 693 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,160 Father's will for us. 694 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:42,320 And I promise, because it's happened for me, and you know, we heard you just quote President 695 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:47,360 Nelson say it might be the one of the most, the most sacred ordinance that we participate 696 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:48,360 in our church. 697 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,400 I promise that because of that, our lives will and are different when we approach the 698 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:57,600 sacrament table that way, all because, all because of the promises that are there, that 699 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,160 we will always have His Spirit to be with us. 700 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,840 That's what we're talking about, David. 701 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,920 That's the retaining of the remission. 702 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:06,240 And we'll have eternal life. 703 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:11,600 And eternal life, which we know to be celestial life, living with Him and our Father. 704 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:12,600 Living with God. 705 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:21,760 If we just will prepare and partake of the sacrament the way we should, we will obtain 706 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,240 eternal life. 707 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,320 I know Jesus meant that literally. 708 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,080 And I know there's conditions to that, and it must be done in faith. 709 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:32,480 And we must qualify. 710 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:39,320 But what an amazing, I think it's one of the most outstanding, amazing promises in all 711 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,080 the Scriptures. 712 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:49,320 I made a video for our stake on the importance of partaking the sacrament, Scott, a few years 713 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,640 ago. 714 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:58,440 And I wanted to make this video in the chapel, which the stake president allowed me to do, 715 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,400 and the sacrament table there was set. 716 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:07,720 And I pointed out, you know, that what does that look like to you, those linens? 717 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:12,400 What do those linens remind you of when you look at the sacrament table? 718 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:18,040 I wish that our sacrament table, this is a personal thing, in the old chapels, in most 719 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:23,240 of the really old pioneer chapels, Scott, the sacrament table was in the middle of the 720 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:31,360 room, and was really kind of the center of the room in which the saints met. 721 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:38,520 And I think sometimes that we would be better served if the sacrament table was right in 722 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:45,080 the front, and that you couldn't, everybody's attention had to be on that sacrament table, 723 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:50,240 even before the priests, and even before we sang, and if people would just look at that 724 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:56,720 sacrament table, and those linen cloths, you know, I picture the Savior. 725 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:57,720 I do too. 726 00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,320 Under those linen cloths. 727 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,120 The bread and the water under that linen is His flesh and blood. 728 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,600 It represents His burial. 729 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:05,600 Absolutely. 730 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,680 It represents Him, those linen cloths. 731 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:13,880 And then to hear those prayers, and one of the things that Elder Nelson said in this 732 00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:19,240 Worldwide Leadership Conference was he talked through, I think, three or four paragraphs 733 00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:29,080 on the importance of singing the sacrament hymn properly, with real worship and with 734 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,400 all your heart. 735 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:38,480 I don't know, but when I look around, I'm not being critical, this is just an observation, 736 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:48,480 but it seems like so many do not put all their heart and worship and effort into singing 737 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:56,680 and worshiping in our hymns, especially this is an opportunity for us in the future to 738 00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:02,920 do better in singing and worshiping through the sacrament hymns. 739 01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:04,680 I think that's really an important part. 740 01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:05,680 Well, it is. 741 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:06,680 Elder Nelson. 742 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:07,680 Yeah. 743 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,520 That's the important part that was in our preparation, is how we sing the sacrament 744 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:13,520 hymn. 745 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:19,760 And then as we partake, after the priests have offered those prayers and given the covenant 746 01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:24,080 and the promises of what we're doing, and I think it's important to point out that Elder 747 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:30,760 Perry, Elder Stapley, and others have said, you know, what are we renewing when we partake 748 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:31,760 of the sacrament? 749 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,680 We're renewing all of our covenants. 750 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,400 All of our covenants. 751 01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,400 That includes— 752 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,760 You renew your sealing and temple marriage. 753 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,480 You partake of the sacrament. 754 01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,120 How do you renew the covenant of the endowment, initiatory? 755 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,320 How do you renew those, by going back to the temple? 756 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:54,880 Well, you can certainly remember and recall and bless the others vicariously by going 757 01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:01,040 back to the temple and doing it again, but for us personally, individually, we renew 758 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,800 all our covenants, temple, baptism, and all covenants. 759 01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,400 At the sacrament table. 760 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:08,400 At the sacrament table. 761 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,400 Yeah, we— 762 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:10,400 That's what we do. 763 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:17,040 I think if people understood that, it would raise their level of worship when they partake 764 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,880 of the sacrament every Sunday. 765 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:30,480 So when we go and we're prepared and we participate in the sacrament, I was in a meeting with 766 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:38,760 Elder J Jansen, who was one of the presidents of the Seventy a few years ago, probably been 767 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:46,560 ten years ago now, and he told a group of young single adults in a special meeting that every 768 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:54,360 time he partakes of the sacrament, he quotes this scripture in his mind. 769 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,980 And I'd like to share it with everyone. 770 01:01:56,980 --> 01:02:02,040 It's in Doctrine and Covenants, section 110, verse 5. 771 01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:07,520 So this is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the 772 01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,640 Kirtland Temple, and he says in verse 5, 773 01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:16,000 Behold, your sins are forgiven you. 774 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,120 You are clean before me. 775 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:25,800 Therefore lift up your heads and rejoice. 776 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:32,200 Every time Elder J E Jansen, who I have so much love and respect for, would partake of 777 01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:41,800 the sacrament, he would quote that verse to remind himself and galvanize in his mind and 778 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:53,840 remember the power of that ordinance and the power and the efficacy of the atonement of 779 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,200 Jesus Christ in his personal life. 780 01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:03,600 I don't do it every time, but I think about this often and often time we'll turn to it 781 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,640 and read it while I partake of the sacrament. 782 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,480 Behold, your sins are forgiven you. 783 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,360 You are clean. 784 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,160 Therefore lift up your head and rejoice. 785 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:24,720 Think how that could change our lives and our relationship with the Father, the Son, 786 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,000 and the Holy Ghost. 787 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:35,000 If we really felt that exercised faith in that, believed that every time we partake 788 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:41,920 of the sacrament, we're not sinless, but we're worthy enough to participate in that 789 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:49,720 sacred ordinance that our sins were being forgiven and the atonement of Jesus Christ 790 01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:54,720 through the administration of the gift of the Holy Ghost was being administered into 791 01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:56,080 our life. 792 01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:02,000 That's how we retain the spirit and forgiveness to always be with us. 793 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,960 And that's actually the purpose of today's podcast is to help us to understand and to 794 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:07,960 know that. 795 01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:13,480 I'll just real quickly mention this in episodes past that there was a period of time when 796 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,640 I had my membership had been lifted and because of that I was restricted in being able to 797 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:19,640 partake of the sacrament. 798 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:27,480 And you talk about people singing and preparing for the sacrament. 799 01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:31,500 Some of the counsel that was given to me during that period of time as I was working so closely 800 01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:37,640 with leaders in my stake and in my ward was to prepare as though I was able to partake 801 01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:41,560 the sacrament, even though I wasn't, but to prepare as though I was. 802 01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:42,560 And I did. 803 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:51,080 That was something that became a very, I don't want to use the, don't mean to overuse a word 804 01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:55,680 like ritual, but it became almost ritualistic to me, David, the way that I prepared for 805 01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:56,680 it. 806 01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,600 There were certain things that I needed to do and I had to do and I wanted to do so that 807 01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,580 I could feel what portion of the spirit would be available to me. 808 01:05:04,580 --> 01:05:11,000 And I can tell you as you were talking about singing a hymn prior to partaking of the sacrament, 809 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:16,660 I don't remember very many Sundays and I tried to sit out of the view of most and I tried 810 01:05:16,660 --> 01:05:20,800 to be as discreet, but I'm an emotional kind of guy. 811 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,240 I cry at chick flicks. 812 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,120 I still do. 813 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:34,120 But when the hymn in preparation for and as the bread was being broken and the sacrament 814 01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:38,760 being prepared by those priesthood holders worthy and called and holding the keys to 815 01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:45,760 do that, whereas doing that, it was very, very, very frequently that stream tears would 816 01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,960 stream down my face as I felt my savior's love. 817 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,120 I just know that, you know, what you said in that council to be given that was given 818 01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,320 is just so important and so true. 819 01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:01,940 And you know, brothers and sisters, please take advantage, please grasp our invitation 820 01:06:01,940 --> 01:06:08,480 this week, employ whatever it is that you need to to make the sacrament experience, 821 01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,480 whether you're partaking of it or not. 822 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:17,940 That sacrament experience can be a sacred, holy, life-changing, and important component 823 01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:20,480 to our entire week and to our entire life. 824 01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:24,240 So we extend that to you and hope that you'll embrace it. 825 01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:33,000 God, it's so—it can be hard to really focus during the sacrament on the things that we 826 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,960 should focus on there. 827 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:42,280 Even in our sacrament meetings, as reverent as I think they are, even with the little 828 01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:47,320 children and everything else that's going on around us, it is just so important that 829 01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:56,660 we eliminate as many distractions as we possibly can for ourselves and for others around us. 830 01:06:56,660 --> 01:07:04,240 We be careful, really careful, how we use electronics or our phones, that we do everything 831 01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:14,680 that we can, again, not just for ourselves but for others, to not allow any distractions 832 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,080 taking place during that meeting. 833 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:24,680 I'll never forget, this is in the Answers to Gospel Questions, I think, volume 2. 834 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,520 I can't remember what page. 835 01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:28,200 This is Joseph Fielding Smith. 836 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:36,160 This is a quote, whispering during the sacrament is a sin. 837 01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:43,640 Joseph Fielding Smith really believed that and taught that and preached that, that whispering 838 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,640 during the sacrament is a sin. 839 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,600 I can remember that for many, many years. 840 01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:57,520 I remember with my little children trying to teach them that, that if we needed to communicate 841 01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:05,440 during the sacrament, we would maybe find other ways to do so without talking, without 842 01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,440 even whispering. 843 01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:15,200 And unfortunately, sometimes it's not something that we're going to be judged by or it's 844 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:20,960 not going to take away from the power of Christ's Atonement or the power of that ordinance, 845 01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:26,400 but it may be a distraction, if not for ourselves, for others. 846 01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:32,880 So leaders sitting on the stand, and mothers and fathers and children and all of us, in 847 01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:39,440 whatever our situation may be, we just need to really do the best we can to really focus 848 01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:47,680 on what the sacrament is about and to think about His last week and His suffering spiritually, 849 01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:52,680 physically, the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and all of the powers and 850 01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:59,360 blessings and grace and mercy and redemption and enabling powers and compensatory blessings 851 01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:04,400 and all that we receive in our life through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 852 01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:10,520 I even like to, now that I don't have children, I can bow my head and I can pray during the 853 01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:11,520 sacrament. 854 01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:19,820 You know, there's just so many things I think that can help us to really focus and to remember. 855 01:09:19,820 --> 01:09:26,520 If we can't focus and remember Jesus Christ during the passing of the sacrament, how well 856 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:34,200 are we going to do the rest of the week to remember and to focus as we just made a covenant 857 01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:40,760 to do in the sacrament prayer to remember Him always, that we may always have His Spirit 858 01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,360 to be with us? 859 01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,080 If we can't do that during the sacrament, the passing of the sacrament, how are we going 860 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:48,320 to do that the rest of the week? 861 01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,000 Yeah, that's the whole point. 862 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:55,280 There are 10,080 minutes in the seven days. 863 01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,480 10,080 minutes in a week. 864 01:09:58,480 --> 01:09:59,480 Okay? 865 01:09:59,480 --> 01:10:00,480 10,080. 866 01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:05,600 If the sacrament takes 20 minutes, and that might be on the heavy side, it may not take 867 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:12,200 that long sometimes, but if the sacrament takes 20 minutes, that's a very good return 868 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,280 on investment in my world. 869 01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:22,160 If I can invest 20 minutes so that the remaining 10,060 minutes of my week can be more, so 870 01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:28,320 that's 20 minutes, so that the remaining 10,060 minutes of my week can be more aligned and 871 01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:33,280 I can be more, I can be promised to have His Spirit always with me during that period of 872 01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:34,280 time. 873 01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,480 When you put it that way, Dave, it seems like an extremely small investment. 874 01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:39,480 Wow. 875 01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:40,480 Yep. 876 01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:41,480 What a return. 877 01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:47,040 I think maybe we should close soon, but I want to just remind all of us, because I always 878 01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:52,920 think about this when I talk about the sacrament, is what the Savior did when He visited the 879 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:59,360 Americas, and the very first day, the very first moment almost, He tells them, gives 880 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:07,640 them the power to baptize and encourages them to be baptized and that there be no disputation 881 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:13,760 among them, and shortly after that, He blesses the children, and after He's blessed the children 882 01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:21,960 and delivered some teachings, He institutes the sacrament among the Nephites in 3 Nephi 883 01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:32,360 chapter 18, and when He institutes the sacrament among the Nephites, this is what it says, 884 01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:40,040 He says, and this shall ye always do, the sacrament, to those who repent and are baptized 885 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:49,080 in My name, and ye shall always do it in remembrance of My blood, which I have shed for you, that 886 01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:57,920 ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember Me, and if ye do always remember 887 01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:06,080 Me, ye shall have My Spirit to be with you, and forgiveness, and the power of the Atonement 888 01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:15,240 in our life, and I give you a commandment that ye shall do these things, and if ye shall 889 01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:23,720 always do these things, blessed are ye, for ye are built upon My rock. 890 01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:30,040 When we speak of building our foundations upon the rock of Christ, you know what that 891 01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:31,860 really means? 892 01:12:31,860 --> 01:12:35,640 To partake of the sacrament. 893 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:44,240 Christ is the rock, but we build our foundations upon the rock of this sacred, holy ordinance 894 01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,540 we call the sacrament. 895 01:12:46,540 --> 01:12:55,520 This is the rock, this is the rock of Christ, to remember Him by partaking of His body and 896 01:12:55,520 --> 01:13:00,880 His blood, and I again go back to John 6, if we do these things, we'll not only have 897 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:07,360 eternal life, but He will dwell in us, and we will dwell in Him. 898 01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,800 That's the significance of the sacrament. 899 01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:17,000 So when we talk about retention and forgiveness of sin, the sacrament is really a central 900 01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,000 part of all of it. 901 01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,000 Yeah. 902 01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,520 We could go on for a long time today. 903 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:27,920 This is an awesome topic, obviously one that we both have a lot of passion around, a lot 904 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:35,520 of conviction, and honestly, even more importantly than all of that, a great depth of reverence 905 01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,040 for the ordinance of the sacrament. 906 01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:44,560 I'm so grateful for it, I'm so grateful for the opportunity that I get each week to retain 907 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:50,160 the remission of everything in my life that is not just exactly like our Heavenly Father 908 01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:56,400 and Jesus Christ, but to retain that remission through the atonement of Jesus Christ, administered 909 01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:02,200 to me through His Spirit, which I'm promised to always have with me if I keep His commandments 910 01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:03,640 and always remember Him. 911 01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,080 So great to be with you today, Dave. 912 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:07,080 Thank you, Scott. 913 01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:08,080 Thank you, everybody. 914 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,920 Do you have anything finally you'd like to impart to us? 915 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:17,680 No, thankful for the emails and any feedback that we get from our sweet listeners or any 916 01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,000 questions that you have. 917 01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:24,440 I know we're planning a podcast here in the near future to answer some of those questions 918 01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:30,720 about different aspects of the atonement, which we'll look forward to doing, but grateful 919 01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:37,400 for our relationship, Scott, and relationship with the listeners who have reached out to 920 01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:38,400 us. 921 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:39,400 Yeah, as am I. 922 01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,400 You can send those to heredeemsusatgmail.com. 923 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:43,480 Thanks for being with us. 924 01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:45,480 We appreciate it so much. 925 01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:49,000 Please share with your friends and others, and may God bless you. 926 01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:54,360 And as you partake of the sacrament this Sunday, please participate in our invitation. 927 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,200 Focus and remember. 928 01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:00,360 And remember that we may always have His Spirit to be with us. 929 01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:04,760 That is our greatest and deepest desire this week, and we're grateful for you. 930 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:05,760 We'll see you all next week. 931 01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:30,960 Thanks for being with us.