1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,460
Well, hey there everybody, welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood.

2
00:00:14,460 --> 00:00:18,920
In this podcast, we discuss hope, healing and redemption through the atonement of Jesus

3
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:19,920
Christ.

4
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:20,920
My name is Scott Durfey.

5
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,920
I want to be the first to welcome you out today and as always it's my honor to welcome

6
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:31,600
and introduce my partner in this project, our amazing teacher and friend, Brother David

7
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,600
Durfey.

8
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:33,600
Thank you, Scott.

9
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,600
Thank you.

10
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,600
Good to be here.

11
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:36,600
It's good to have you with us too, Dave.

12
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,160
I'm looking forward to a great podcast today.

13
00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:44,760
Listen, before we dive into that though, I want to just, as always, send out an appreciation,

14
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,240
thank you to all of those who have been sending emails to us.

15
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,520
We've received several over the last little while and again, want to just tell you thanks,

16
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,480
encourage you to share with us your insights.

17
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,160
Don't hesitate to ask questions.

18
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,680
If you'd like us to ask and include your questions as part of our podcast, mention that.

19
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:10,480
We try to incorporate that as we go and so, you know, just ask that you continue to do

20
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:11,480
that.

21
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,640
You can send those emails to us at he redeems us at gmail.com.

22
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,160
He redeems us at gmail.com.

23
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:25,680
So last week, Dave, last episode, we had the opportunity as we're beginning to talk about

24
00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,320
forgiveness as part of the repentance process.

25
00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:36,520
We were talked about the shared, we remembered the experience of the woman caught in adultery

26
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,120
in John chapter eight and Jesus's response to that.

27
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:48,420
We talked about how being forgiven brings us closer to him and in all things.

28
00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:54,480
We talked about mercy and it's kind of touched on that a little bit and how mercy, the mercy

29
00:01:54,480 --> 00:02:01,640
that I give does not rub justice, but it fulfills justice.

30
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,480
And we're reminded that we can't suffer enough for the pain that we've caused others.

31
00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,000
He suffered for all of that.

32
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:18,200
We talked about Cory Ten Boom and what a great example of forgiveness she gave us as she

33
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,800
had her experiences and so forth.

34
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:22,800
So here we are.

35
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:28,600
We're today going to continue a little bit in that same vein as we talk about forgiveness,

36
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:29,600
Dave.

37
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,800
So what do you, how do you want to get started today?

38
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:39,320
Well, let me just say something about your, your summary from our last podcast.

39
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:44,560
You know, I think it's not easy, Scott, to forgive others.

40
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:54,320
And we're really, we're really commanded to forgive everyone.

41
00:02:54,320 --> 00:03:00,320
I had somebody text me a question, listener to our podcast, member of our family, actually

42
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,480
Scott who texted me about, are we supposed to love Satan?

43
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,880
Are we supposed to forgive him?

44
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,320
Are we supposed to?

45
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:18,160
And I responded with, so Jesus said that we are to love our enemies.

46
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:24,400
But when, when we use the word love, even, even as it's used in the scriptures, Scott,

47
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,080
there's many different levels of love.

48
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:32,160
Like there are many different levels of faith, like there are many different levels of hope.

49
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:39,800
You can never describe any attribute or principle of the gospel and say you either have it or

50
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,600
you don't.

51
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:47,780
The question is at what level, at what level are we talking about?

52
00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:50,820
Or what definition of love are we talking about?

53
00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:55,240
The Greeks had five different levels of definition of love.

54
00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:01,680
You know, what, what are we talking about when we say we're to love our enemies?

55
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,160
And what are we talking about when we really say we are to forgive?

56
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,880
You know, I just think it's so important and we tried to explain this.

57
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,640
I don't know if we did a great job.

58
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,840
I always want to do better.

59
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,920
But forgiving doesn't mean hanging out.

60
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,480
Forgiving doesn't mean necessarily trusting.

61
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:33,480
Forgiving means that we're able to love them in a brotherly love sort of way.

62
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:40,760
Love is not unconditional in that case, but that we love them and that we're able to let

63
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,800
it go and move on.

64
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,200
I just think it's really important for people.

65
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:54,200
I don't know that we were strong enough in our last podcast to express our concern, empathy,

66
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,240
and love for those who have been abused.

67
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:03,640
And you know, earlier this month in conference, you know, there was some references to those

68
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:12,000
President Nelson's amazing talk, right, on how the Lord feels about those who have been

69
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:18,040
abused, and more important, those who have abused.

70
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:23,320
And the abomination that he feels towards those individuals.

71
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:29,120
Well, I know we've been commanded to forgive all, and God will forgive who we will forgive,

72
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,120
Doctrine and Covenants, section 64.

73
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:43,320
But we absolutely, I know for a fact, can forgive others and forgive them of their sin

74
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:52,200
and still feel abomination for what they've done and to not necessarily love them the

75
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:59,800
way that we deeply love our Savior or love our family or love others.

76
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:09,080
I just, forgiving others is a relative term when we say the command to forgive others.

77
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:17,480
It means really that we, while we don't forget what they've ever done, we may not ever be

78
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,280
able to trust them.

79
00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:23,600
We may not be able to even be around them.

80
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:32,480
So awesome that Kori Ten Boom was able to shake her prison guard's hand.

81
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,560
I don't know that I could have done that.

82
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:42,200
And the only way she did, right, was because she said Jesus gave her the strength to do

83
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,200
that.

84
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:49,240
And maybe that's the final thing in recapping this, is that we really don't have the power

85
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:56,520
to forgive and we really don't have the power to let some things go.

86
00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:03,280
But through the strength of Jesus Christ and through the mercy and grace of the Atonement

87
00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:11,240
of Jesus Christ and with the help of the gift of the Holy Ghost, we can feel the love of

88
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:17,120
God for His children, which is the gift of charity that we should pray for with all energy

89
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,600
of heart.

90
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:28,040
And in feeling His love and trying to see others as He sees them, we can let things

91
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,080
go and ultimately have the power and strength to forgive.

92
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:38,360
So I think before we move on and talk about forgiving ourselves, as we will today, and

93
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:49,600
how to recognize and receive and retain forgiveness, we need to make sure that we have forgiven

94
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:50,600
others.

95
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:51,600
Right.

96
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:57,760
So right in line with what you just said about forgiving and sometimes the challenges that

97
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:04,660
can come, because I shared in the previous episode about sitting in an Alcoholics Anonymous

98
00:08:04,660 --> 00:08:13,560
meeting and this guy walks in and had created a whole bunch of havoc and just evil among

99
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,720
some of the members of my immediate family.

100
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:25,960
And the direction that was given to me by the guy that I was sitting by there, you know,

101
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:26,960
on how to handle that.

102
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,440
And you know, when we get more...

103
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:30,700
Tell us again what he said.

104
00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:32,200
So what he said, what happened was...

105
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,200
I think it's so great.

106
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,800
Yeah, so what happened was it was about this time of year and we're sitting in a meeting

107
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,200
of Alcoholics Anonymous.

108
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,200
I had about six years, I believe, it could give or take a year or two, one way or the

109
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,800
other of sobriety.

110
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:50,920
But this guy walked in and this is a gentleman and it was really difficult for me to call

111
00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:56,240
him a gentleman then and I still find my tongue thickening up sometimes when I say it now.

112
00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:03,280
But even when he walked in, this guy had created so much havoc, so much evil among certain

113
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,320
members of my family without getting into any details.

114
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,280
If you can imagine something pretty rotten, well, that's pretty much in line with what

115
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,440
it is.

116
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,640
And as he walks in, I recognize him and the hair just stands up on the back of my neck.

117
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,560
You know, I had worked through all 12 steps and you know, it's not something that's a

118
00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:21,240
one and done in recovery.

119
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:27,240
You continually maintain a program of recovery by working those steps because you know, as

120
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,880
long as we're human, we need to continue to do that.

121
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,320
And as I was doing that, this guy walks in to this meeting, first time I'd seen him in

122
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,280
maybe 10 years.

123
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:43,880
The back of the hair on the back of my neck stands up, I get a little bristly and my sponsor

124
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,640
at the time, John, turns to me and he says, what the heck is wrong with you?

125
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,600
And I said, I'll just tell you later.

126
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,920
Anyway, when the meeting was over, John pulls me aside and he says, Scott, you got to tell

127
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:54,920
me what's going on.

128
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,400
I said, John, I already know what you're going to tell me.

129
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,720
But he was aware of the situation because I had to work through that as part of my step

130
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,220
work was the situation.

131
00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:08,520
And so I reminded him of the situation and he says, oh, that's the guy.

132
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:09,760
I said, that's the guy.

133
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,200
And I said, I already know what you're going to tell me.

134
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,760
You're going to tell me to go pray for him.

135
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,360
And he says, Scott, I'm not going to tell you to pray for him.

136
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,480
I'm going to tell you to pray for you.

137
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,760
He says, it's your relationship with your higher power.

138
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,840
And that's how it's referred to oftentimes in those places.

139
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,760
It's your relationship with your higher power.

140
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,780
So it's my relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that's important.

141
00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:33,480
He says, you're not going to be able to fix that.

142
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:39,360
It's your relationship there that will make that available at least to you.

143
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:40,720
And I thought that was great advice.

144
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:46,080
But Elder Anderson also on page 225 of his book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, and

145
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,080
I read this in the last episode, but I think it deserves revisiting.

146
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,200
This is exactly what he says.

147
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,960
Forgiveness is not excusing accountability or failing to protect ourselves, our families,

148
00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,160
and other innocent victims.

149
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:08,120
Forgiveness is not continuing in a relationship with someone who is not trustworthy.

150
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,720
Forgiveness is not condemning injustice.

151
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:18,240
Forgiveness is not dismissing the hurt or disgust we feel because of the actions of

152
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,600
others.

153
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:21,880
Let me read that again.

154
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:27,380
Forgiveness is not dismissing the hurt or the disgust we feel because of the action

155
00:11:27,380 --> 00:11:28,960
of others.

156
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,880
Forgiveness is not forgetting but remembering in peace.

157
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,120
And we added, but remembering in peace because of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

158
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,840
Yeah, because you may think back on some things that have happened in your life and you don't

159
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:48,720
feel peace when you think about those things, but you can feel peace as you focus your thoughts

160
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,560
on Jesus Christ.

161
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:58,300
And not only—this is really important, Scott—understanding the doctrine of the atonement of Jesus Christ,

162
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:08,480
that He suffered not only for all the sins of all the world, but He suffered for all

163
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:17,500
the negative consequences, pain, hurt, and suffering caused by the sins committed in

164
00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:20,560
all the world.

165
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:28,020
When people who have been hurt—and we have all been hurt, and again, my heart just goes

166
00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:38,920
out so much to those who have been abused—those individuals need to remember that Christ suffered

167
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:44,780
for the consequences of the abuse that they have suffered.

168
00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:56,280
And knowing that doctrine should help them to be healed and to be able to let it go.

169
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,880
I know that takes great faith.

170
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,820
That takes time.

171
00:13:00,820 --> 00:13:04,800
That takes great faith and work on their part.

172
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:12,520
But I know that that is one of the great miracles of the gospel of Jesus Christ, that through

173
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:19,080
Jesus Christ we can receive His power through the atonement, through His atonement, to be

174
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,840
able to not only let things go, but to move on.

175
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:24,840
Right.

176
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,460
And I carry that experience out, and I did not mention this in the last episode, so this

177
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:33,440
is kind of a continuation of that same story.

178
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,480
He kept coming around.

179
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,360
We'll call him Jim.

180
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,040
Jim kept coming around.

181
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,800
And eventually he approached me, and he extended his hand.

182
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:46,840
I took his hand.

183
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:47,840
We shook hands.

184
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:48,840
Not much was said.

185
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,400
But he apologized.

186
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:57,860
He says, I apologize for, and he went on to explain what he was apologizing for.

187
00:13:57,860 --> 00:14:03,520
And in that moment I felt a little bit of a change, and it didn't happen overnight,

188
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,440
and it didn't happen in an instant.

189
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:12,320
But eventually over the span of maybe two or three or four years, he and I were able

190
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,240
to sit by each other in meetings.

191
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,360
We were able to have pleasant and friendly conversations.

192
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:25,160
He would call me on occasion when he was struggling and suffering to stay sober because of the

193
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,240
conditions that he had been through.

194
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,720
And you know, David, this is one of the things that has been, became very enlightening to

195
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,340
me through that experience.

196
00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:39,940
And I've done a lot of study on this through things like the Arbinger Group, where we learn

197
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:46,200
to see people as people, and we understand and give them the benefit of the doubt, and

198
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:51,280
try to understand the reasons that they're suffering too.

199
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:58,200
And as I did that, I don't know why, but Heavenly Father was able to give me a glimpse into

200
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,240
the suffering of this guy.

201
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,440
And for whatever reason, that created a softening of my heart.

202
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,920
And I wouldn't say we became what I would call cruise-worthy buddies.

203
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,220
I wouldn't want to go hang out with him and go on a cruise with him.

204
00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:14,220
But I could sit by him.

205
00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:16,400
I could sit at lunch with him at a meeting.

206
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,280
We could have pleasant conversation even after the meeting.

207
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,600
He could, you know, tell me certain things that were going on in his life and ask for

208
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:24,800
assistance and help.

209
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,820
And I could do the same with him.

210
00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:32,560
And it was really quite a miracle that Heavenly Father was allowed to be constructed in our

211
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:38,720
lives, both of our lives, because of the power of forgiveness and repentance.

212
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:45,720
And I just want to—I know you know this, Scott, but I want to testify to you and to

213
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:51,600
listeners that that power is not humanly possible to just create on your own.

214
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,720
No it is not.

215
00:15:53,720 --> 00:16:00,800
That power or ability to forgive comes through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

216
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:08,040
At the very least, for those who are not Christian or believe in Christ, it comes through the

217
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,960
light of Christ.

218
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:21,360
That ability to love and to forgive and to have those feelings come through Christ.

219
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,680
I believe that in every instance.

220
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:33,720
And it takes great effort, I know, and sometimes time for that to—

221
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,240
Yeah, it definitely does.

222
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,240
Well—

223
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:37,660
Those things to be restored and healed.

224
00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:43,560
And then I found out just two years ago that that gentleman has since passed away.

225
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:50,840
And I'm so grateful for him and for me, but I'm grateful for him that he was able to get

226
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:56,880
right so many things before he passed to the other side.

227
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:03,680
And where it would be much more difficult to deal with and make restitution and fix

228
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:04,680
the things that—

229
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,960
I can do that with those who have offended us and those that we have offended.

230
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,920
Yeah, I do too.

231
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:20,960
Anyway, so I think again, before one can really forgive themselves and recognize, receive,

232
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:28,520
and retain forgiveness in their life, we need to make sure that we've forgiven others.

233
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,240
That grudges are gone.

234
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:41,840
And as we accomplish that through, again, the grace of Christ, we can begin to forgive

235
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,640
ourselves.

236
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:52,740
So let's talk about forgiving ourselves, which really means receiving, recognizing,

237
00:17:52,740 --> 00:17:59,080
and retaining forgiveness in our lives, Scott, those three Rs.

238
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,520
And let's start with receiving.

239
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:08,800
And I believe that receiving forgiveness, before we can even recognize it, that the

240
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,960
receiving is the work of repentance.

241
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,840
That's what it means to receive it.

242
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,560
And we've talked a lot about that now.

243
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:27,040
I hate describing the act of repentance in any sort of steps sort of way.

244
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,320
I don't think it's a checklist.

245
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,480
I know it's not a checklist.

246
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:37,520
And we've talked about the different elements that must be involved in the work of repentance,

247
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:44,440
even daily repentance, which should not be trivialized, that we have to recognize our

248
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:51,800
sins before we can ever recognize forgiveness for any sin, that we have to work it out with

249
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:59,040
the Lord by crying out to Him and confessing to Him and crying out and praying for forgiveness

250
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:06,460
and identifying our weakness and sins to Him, and to ask for His help in recognizing our

251
00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:08,800
sins and weakness.

252
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,200
We need to be able to make restitution.

253
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,880
We need to try to restore what was lost as a result of our sins, if humanly possible.

254
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,560
And we need to do all of those things that we've talked about.

255
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:34,280
And as we do those things, Scott, that's how we receive the gift of forgiveness.

256
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:39,440
Recognizing that forgiveness is almost the more difficult part.

257
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:46,200
I think of all the challenges in teaching the class on repentance and forgiveness that

258
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:54,240
I taught at Utah Valley University off and on for 10 years.

259
00:19:54,240 --> 00:20:02,800
The question that I probably received more than any other was, how can I recognize forgiveness?

260
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:12,000
And I heard this over and over again, was that many individuals in our class—and I've

261
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:18,720
heard this also from priesthood leaders—is they would say, trying to help out others,

262
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,960
they would say, well, you just have to forgive yourself.

263
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,040
You just have to forgive yourself.

264
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,280
You just have to forgive yourself.

265
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:38,600
Well, that may be true in some rare instances, but I think more often than not, Scott, that's

266
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:45,960
just the wrong focus and the wrong effort.

267
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:52,640
What we should be focused on is trying to recognize the Lord's forgiveness.

268
00:20:52,640 --> 00:21:00,620
Because I believe, Scott, without exception, that when we know the Lord has forgiven us,

269
00:21:00,620 --> 00:21:08,000
when we recognize His forgiveness in our life—which we'll talk more about how to do that in a

270
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:15,720
minute—when we recognize His forgiveness, it's so much easier to forgive ourselves.

271
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,280
Well, and it makes the receiving of the forgiveness so much easier, too, right?

272
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,120
I mean, oftentimes we think of receiving as a passive experience.

273
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,120
Well, it's not a passive experience, right?

274
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:28,120
True.

275
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:34,240
I played a little bit of wide receiver in high school football, you know, and to receive,

276
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:42,000
that's a pretty involved experience on my part or the receiver's part.

277
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,240
I have to be engaged.

278
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:45,480
I have to be looking.

279
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,080
I have to be adjusting my position.

280
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,480
I have to be fighting through adversity to make that reception.

281
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,600
Well, maybe the most important part of that, we love football, both of us.

282
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:55,920
We both played football.

283
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,440
I coached a little football.

284
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:05,500
You have to be precise in the pattern that you are given to follow.

285
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:07,840
And you have to follow the right pattern.

286
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:15,760
If you want to receive the pass, you have to be precise in the pattern.

287
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,200
That's right.

288
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,400
And your communication has to be accurate.

289
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:26,840
So if I have a pattern that the quarterback is going, expecting me to run, and I run just

290
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,880
the opposite, and he's going to throw the ball where I'm going to be running too, then

291
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:32,880
we're all in trouble.

292
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,440
And so it's the same kind of thing here.

293
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,040
Oftentimes we get confused on what that receiving looks like.

294
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,000
And receiving is not a passive experience.

295
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,480
It is something that we have to engage in.

296
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,040
It's something that we have to accept.

297
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:52,880
To receive a gift doesn't mean you set the gift on my doorstep and now it's my gift.

298
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,560
In order for me to receive it, I have to unwrap it.

299
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:55,600
I have to engage in it.

300
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,480
I have to play with it or whatever the case may be for that gift to actually take place.

301
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:08,360
And so receiving and recognizing tie into each other so much the way I view it, just

302
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:10,080
because of that fact alone.

303
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,080
And there can't be any shortcuts.

304
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:18,040
You can't cheat or take a shortcut.

305
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:25,680
I know that that is so many people try to cut it short, their repentance, or they try

306
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:31,600
to receive forgiveness and think it should come quickly.

307
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:37,200
And sometimes, depending on the situations, the seriousness and conditions of sin, it

308
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,360
may take longer for some than others.

309
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:41,800
I know the Lord is quick to forgive, Scott.

310
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:42,800
Yeah, absolutely.

311
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:51,200
I know He wants to forgive, and He is quick, so merciful, gracious, and quick to forgive.

312
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:58,440
But sometimes it takes time, and sometimes it's because of what we are doing or not doing.

313
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,120
Again, we think that, why am I not being forgiven?

314
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:07,840
I haven't done that anymore for this long.

315
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,920
I haven't recommitted the sin.

316
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,440
Why am I not being forgiven when they're not reading their scriptures, they're not saying

317
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:20,240
their prayers, they're not attending church, they're not running the pattern.

318
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:27,680
They're committing more sins of omission than they ever committed in sins of commission,

319
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,760
and they wonder why they're not being forgiven.

320
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,160
Anyway, there are patterns that have to be followed.

321
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:42,080
One has to live the gospel, the fullness of the gospel to the best of their ability to

322
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:51,520
be able to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, who is, as the third member of the Godhead,

323
00:24:51,520 --> 00:25:01,280
He is the messenger and the administrator of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives.

324
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:09,280
He is the one who brings us the gifts of grace and mercy and forgiveness ultimately.

325
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:16,320
Therefore, when we speak of receiving forgiveness, we are speaking about nothing more, nothing

326
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:24,660
less than receiving the gift and power of the Holy Ghost in our lives.

327
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:30,680
So if one wants to know, how do I receive forgiveness, one should ask themselves, how

328
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,680
can I receive the Holy Ghost in my life?

329
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,880
It's the same thing.

330
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:36,880
There you have it.

331
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:42,440
And it goes right back to, for many of us, at the age of accountability when we're baptized

332
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,240
and then we receive or we are blessed then...

333
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,400
Commanded to receive.

334
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,360
Commanded then to receive.

335
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:54,160
We're not given, we're commanded to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

336
00:25:54,160 --> 00:26:02,360
And so we should have already a pattern or some familiarity with this concept of receiving

337
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:07,180
the Holy Ghost and receiving the forgiveness of our sins, et cetera.

338
00:26:07,180 --> 00:26:14,320
But it's interesting how oftentimes the enemy, the accuser, will put in front of us evidence

339
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:21,800
to the contrary of our receiving or to put evidence in front of us to accuse us of being

340
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:27,600
unworthy or incapable of receiving those gifts.

341
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,920
Yeah, absolutely.

342
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:36,200
And there are so many great scriptures on how to receive the Holy Ghost, I think, in

343
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,280
our life, Scott.

344
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:43,680
Before we even talk about recognizing it, let's talk a little bit about receiving it.

345
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:50,320
And when I think about receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, one of the great passages

346
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:56,160
of Scripture, I think, for me is Alma chapter 5.

347
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,360
And I love Alma chapter 5.

348
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:04,040
I want to just share a little experience with Alma chapter 5, what it means to me.

349
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,360
It's had such a powerful effect in my life and I really invite our readers to read it

350
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,120
and to read it often.

351
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:21,320
It's such a great way for me personally to take kind of a spiritual temperature, it's

352
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,960
like a spiritual thermometer, on how I'm doing.

353
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:34,560
And it kind of gives me the pattern and it enlightens me and helps me to be able to receive

354
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,320
the Holy Ghost in my life.

355
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:43,240
I was watching, I had told my oldest daughter, Rachel, that, you know, how you are with your

356
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,680
oldest, and I was a little zealot about this.

357
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,720
I told her, before you get baptized, Rachel, I think you should read the Book of Mormon.

358
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,080
So I'm telling this seven-year-old to read the Book of Mormon before I'll baptize her.

359
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,440
And so she's trying hard to read the Book of Mormon.

360
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:11,880
In the home that we lived in at the time, I could see her bedroom and her bed from where

361
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,800
I was laying in my bed, you know, our bedrooms were just across the hall and I could see

362
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:17,800
her.

363
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:24,520
And it was always just, oh, it was so sweet to watch her at night to be reading the Book

364
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:25,520
of Mormon.

365
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:31,560
And this one night I was watching her and she was so into it, the way she was moving,

366
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,720
her eyes and her expressions and her face, she was so into this.

367
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:44,000
And I thought, oh, she must be reading about Ammon cutting off the arms, you know.

368
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,040
I didn't know what she was reading, but that's what I thought.

369
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,160
I knew she was in Alma and I thought she's probably reading about that.

370
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,600
And all of a sudden she got through, this had gone on for, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes,

371
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,600
and she gets through and she closes the book.

372
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:10,120
And she just extemporaneously yells out, Daddy, Daddy, come here.

373
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:18,480
And so I get up, I go in her bedroom and sit on her bed and she says, Daddy, have you ever

374
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,200
read Alma chapter 5?

375
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,840
And I'm going, wow, that's what she was reading?

376
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:34,680
Wow, what would a seven-year-old, what would they, yeah, Rachel, yeah, I've read Alma

377
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,600
chapter 5 a few times.

378
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,480
Yeah, what did you like about it?

379
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,640
Because you know, it's pretty much an interview.

380
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,020
There's 42 questions, I think, in Alma chapter 5.

381
00:29:46,020 --> 00:29:51,720
It's pretty much just a spiritual interview and him expounding to the people in the city

382
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,500
of Zarahemla, it's amazing, but it's doctrine and principles.

383
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:59,080
There's no storyline here.

384
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,280
And I said, wow, Rachel, that's awesome.

385
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,000
What did you like about Alma chapter 5?

386
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:13,060
And she paused and she kind of looked up and was pondering and after a few seconds she

387
00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:24,640
looked at me and she said, with the earnestness and love of a child, she said, I don't know,

388
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:31,120
I just love how it made me feel.

389
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,760
I love how it made me feel.

390
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:44,440
I'm thankful that the Holy Ghost prompted me to say to her, Rachel, what you're feeling

391
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,080
is the Holy Ghost.

392
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:58,680
And I want you to always remember that tonight you have felt the Holy Ghost, the power of

393
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:07,720
the Holy Ghost bear testimony to you that the Book of Mormon is the Word of God, that

394
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,360
you are a child of God, and that He loves you.

395
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Well, honestly, Scott, I feel that same way when I read Alma chapter 5.

396
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:27,200
I don't know if it's my favorite chapter in all the scriptures, there's so many, but

397
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,920
I know how it makes me feel when I read it.

398
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:38,680
And if our listeners want to kind of receive the gift and recognize the gift of the Holy

399
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:45,320
Ghost in their life, a careful reading of Alma chapter 5, because it is an interview.

400
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:51,680
I mean, if they didn't have temple interview questions back in Alma's day, this is about

401
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,160
as close as I think you can get.

402
00:31:54,160 --> 00:32:00,520
To be able to pause every time he asks a question, when I read it, this is the way I like to

403
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,600
read it, then it's not a quick read.

404
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:11,960
Every time he asks a question, I like to pause and answer the question for myself.

405
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,120
Can you feel so now?

406
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:24,860
Talking about the gift of redeeming love, and I like to answer that question for myself.

407
00:32:24,860 --> 00:32:33,960
It seems like in that process, it helps me to connect with the Holy Ghost and to recognize

408
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,760
the Holy Ghost in my life.

409
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,160
So I encourage us to do that.

410
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,360
I know there are some verses in there to read, some of the evidences, whether we're receiving

411
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,840
the Holy Ghost or not, Scott, if we're recognizing it in our life.

412
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,240
What are some of the questions in there that you love?

413
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,880
I know you and I talked about this before we began the podcast.

414
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:03,820
Well, one of the very first ones is in verse 6, where he asks, and have you sufficiently

415
00:33:03,820 --> 00:33:11,000
retained in remembrance his mercy and long suffering towards them?

416
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,680
Meaning towards all of us, right?

417
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,440
And moreover, have you sufficiently retained in remembrance that he has delivered their

418
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,480
souls from hell?

419
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,760
I think that's the key.

420
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,000
For us, that has to be the foundational question that we answer before we can move on to any

421
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,520
of this, because without that sure knowledge or without that deep faith, that that is indeed

422
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,920
the case, then the rest of it is all for not.

423
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:42,600
I think that if I can answer that when I read these, and I have similar experiences with

424
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,880
this chapter as you, but when I read this, that's the first question that I have to honestly,

425
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,720
it's so easy, I think, for us as we're reading this, that question, have you sufficiently

426
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,120
retained in remembrance his mercy and long suffering towards them?

427
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,480
You, all of us.

428
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,680
I think that's an easy one for us to just skip past.

429
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,280
Oh yeah, I know that.

430
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:07,000
But I think that if we take the time to spend a moment in contemplation and ponder that

431
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,240
question, there's insights that can come to us.

432
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:14,360
There's insights that come to me, even when I think my life is good.

433
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,520
Yea, all is well in Zion, yea, Zion prospereth in Scott Durfee's life.

434
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,840
But when I read that question, and if I again, going back to so many times we've talked about

435
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,280
this personal inventory, if I take personal inventory around that, that really sets the

436
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,200
foundation for the rest of them.

437
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,760
Well, and it's really the first question that we're asked by priesthood leaders.

438
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:35,760
That's right.

439
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,840
When we're given a temple recommend is, do you have faith in your Heavenly Father, in

440
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,960
the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost?

441
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,920
That's what he's really asking, Scott, is do we have faith?

442
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,240
Do we have faith in Jesus Christ?

443
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:56,880
And we should point out again, as we have several times, that the power of forgiveness

444
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:04,800
and the power of repentance in our life is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

445
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,640
There is no power in repentance.

446
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:15,440
The power behind, in, and through repentance to be forgiven of our sins comes through our

447
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,240
faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

448
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:19,920
That's the power behind all of this.

449
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:20,920
Exactly.

450
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:26,240
The next one I really like too is where he says, have you spiritually been born of God?

451
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,680
And I think that's another one that's easy for us to just skate right past sometimes

452
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,920
because we think, of course I've been spiritually born of God.

453
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,840
Okay, have we really?

454
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,400
And are we continuing to be?

455
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,280
This is not something that's a one and done.

456
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,960
None of this stuff is one and done for any of us.

457
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,240
That's my belief.

458
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:44,960
What I believe is, is if I don't-

459
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:45,960
It's a process.

460
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:46,960
Exactly.

461
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:53,120
And if I don't make it a daily repentance process, as our sweet president, Nelson, has

462
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:59,760
invited us to do and find joy in doing that, he added, I think that it's easy for me and

463
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,680
I'm human as much as anybody else.

464
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,860
It's easy for all of us to kind of become adrift away sometimes from these principles.

465
00:36:06,860 --> 00:36:11,480
So when he says that, have you been spiritually born of God?

466
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:12,480
What does that mean?

467
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,620
And what does that mean to me?

468
00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:15,800
And what does that mean to me today?

469
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:16,800
Right?

470
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,880
I mean, this is not something that I'm just born.

471
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,680
It's not like my mom gave birth to me and now I'm here to be spiritually born of God.

472
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,960
I need that to happen again and again.

473
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,040
And it gets back to what we've talked about in early episodes and throughout the entirety

474
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:38,440
of this process of putting this podcast together, we've talked about developing a relationship

475
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,360
with our heavenly father and his son, Jesus Christ.

476
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,360
And as we do that, we develop a relationship with the Holy Ghost too, Dave, because that's

477
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,000
where the administration of all of this comes.

478
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Yeah, right.

479
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,000
So that's another one.

480
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,000
I just love that.

481
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,160
And in that same verse, he asks two more questions.

482
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:03,480
Have ye received his image in your countenance?

483
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,040
You know, I've wondered a lot about that.

484
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,040
I know there's a great old hymn about that.

485
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,720
Sister Cap Perry wrote about that.

486
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,520
I love that song.

487
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,280
And I've often wondered, what does that mean?

488
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,080
Does that mean I look different?

489
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:25,560
Have I taken his image in your countenance?

490
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:32,120
You know, I think it means, Scott, that we are feeling more joyful in our life.

491
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,080
I think that's one way.

492
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,160
We choose to keep the commandment to be of good cheer.

493
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,560
We put aside fear.

494
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,600
We focus more on Jesus Christ.

495
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,560
We look unto Him in every thought.

496
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,920
Doubt not, fear not.

497
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,840
And that changes our countenance.

498
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:48,840
Yeah.

499
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,120
And we deal with adversity in a higher and holier way then, too.

500
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,120
Absolutely.

501
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,840
Our countenance has changed.

502
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,020
It really is different.

503
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:59,640
And it can mean the way we appear.

504
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,320
Doesn't necessarily have to, but it can.

505
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,920
There are people that, you know, I'll tell you this.

506
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:12,560
When I first got sober 24 years ago-ish, it'll be that 24 years ago, and 21 days from now,

507
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,680
or 19 days from now, rather, whatever.

508
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:16,680
My math's off.

509
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,960
I'm on the 26.

510
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,920
But when I first got sober, I ran into a person.

511
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,200
Actually it was my mission president.

512
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,040
And I got quite close to my mission president on my mission.

513
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,560
I served in the home with him.

514
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,080
I was an assistant to the president for the last bit of my mission, and we got quite close.

515
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,080
And I ran into him when I was in a dark spot in my life.

516
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,240
And he was very kind, and very Christ-like, and very loving, and didn't embarrass me,

517
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,480
and didn't any of that.

518
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:56,360
And I ran into him again after I had become sober, and after I had actually renewed covenants,

519
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,680
and all of that.

520
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,160
And he took me, and he put his hands on both sides of my shoulder, Dave, and he looked

521
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,720
me in the eye, and he says, I see you now.

522
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:08,240
I see you now.

523
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,880
And it was, so I think sometimes-

524
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:11,880
The real you.

525
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,920
I think that sometimes that image in our countenance can be physical.

526
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,920
And I know he was feeling my spirit too.

527
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,200
Oh, that's sweet, Scott.

528
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,200
Thank you.

529
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:29,280
And then the other question he asked in verse 14, have ye experienced this mighty change

530
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,920
in your hearts?

531
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,120
Oh, that's such a great question to ponder.

532
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:39,760
That's such a great question to ask ourselves, or search within ourselves.

533
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,920
Have we been changed?

534
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:48,360
We again have taught, what is the difference in this perspective, Scott?

535
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:55,160
That I want to change, or I want to be changed.

536
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:01,440
And I was really rejoicing in a conference earlier this month when Elder Johnson gave

537
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:08,760
that incredible talk about, and in essence to paraphrase him teaching us, we can't change

538
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,680
ourselves.

539
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,600
We have to be changed.

540
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:21,300
The power to have, to experience this change of heart is not something that we can just

541
00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:24,500
choose to do on our own.

542
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:27,960
We have to be changed.

543
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,920
And I think that that happens incrementally most of the time.

544
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:41,720
It can be quite profound, as in the case of Alma, or Paul, or Enos, or others.

545
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:48,320
But those, I think, are the exception to the rule, more than the rule.

546
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,440
I think it comes incrementally.

547
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:56,840
I think it comes just a drop of oil in our lamps here, and a drop of oil in our lamps

548
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:57,840
there.

549
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:04,080
And pretty soon, we're different, and we sometimes don't recognize it.

550
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:10,100
But if we could see ourselves six months before, or a year before, or if others who haven't

551
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:14,540
seen us, like your mission president, hasn't seen you for a while, boy, he could really

552
00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:18,680
recognize it, and we could recognize it even in ourselves.

553
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,560
But we have to ask ourselves that question.

554
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,740
Have we been changed in our hearts?

555
00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:33,920
And I think that's another way to begin to recognize, to receive and recognize forgiveness

556
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,120
in our lives.

557
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:41,840
And then, I think my favorite question in here, Scott, is the question he asked some

558
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,720
other great questions about faith, about the eye of faith.

559
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:48,000
Do you have the eye of faith?

560
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,480
Which is such a powerful thing, but I love verse 26.

561
00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:01,080
"'Now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart,

562
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:12,840
and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?'

563
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,280
Wow.

564
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:23,600
That reminds me of my sweetheart, Chris, when she sins, when she makes a mistake, when her

565
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:32,680
weaknesses, the weaknesses of the flesh get the best of her, and she recognizes it.

566
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:42,480
She immediately bows her head and says, thank you.

567
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:50,480
Thinking about the redeeming love of Jesus Christ.

568
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,740
It's not about our redeeming love.

569
00:42:55,740 --> 00:43:03,240
It's about can we recognize the redeeming love of Jesus Christ in our life?

570
00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:08,240
And if you have felt that, can you feel so now?

571
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:12,640
Well, I testify that you can.

572
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:19,580
If you have faith in Christ and His Atonement, if you understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ,

573
00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:25,320
if you can, with an eye of faith, picture Him in the Garden of Gethsemane, if you can

574
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:33,840
picture Him on the cross, if you can picture Christ inviting us continually to come unto

575
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:40,000
me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest, if we can picture

576
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:50,900
that with an eye of faith, Scott, that's really—you can feel the redeeming love, and you can want

577
00:43:50,900 --> 00:43:54,880
to sing the song of redeeming love continually.

578
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,880
Yeah.

579
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,200
Recently, and I don't know if it was last episode or a couple ago, these kind of all

580
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,600
run together a little bit for me, but we talked about rock bottoms, and we talked about how

581
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:10,360
we all, many of us that get to experience or have the opportunity to experience rock

582
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:11,360
bottom.

583
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,800
But then we talked about how the important rock bottom is not our own, but it's the

584
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,740
rock bottom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in Gethsemane on the cross and through that

585
00:44:20,740 --> 00:44:27,640
entire process, even prior to Gethsemane as He went through the cruelty that preamble

586
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,640
all of that.

587
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,240
And everything in between.

588
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:31,880
And everything in between.

589
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:39,160
And maybe, anyway, so as I think about to sing the song of redeeming love, right, to

590
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:45,440
know that even in my rock bottom, and many people are like this, Debs like this, my wife,

591
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,640
when life's great, she's singing.

592
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,320
And we all know people who are happy, and when they're happy, they sing, or they're

593
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,240
humming, or they're whistling, or whatever.

594
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:58,600
And I know metaphorically it's being expressed here, but that can also be a physical expression.

595
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:05,720
But as we take our rock bottom and meet our rock bottom with His rock bottom in the garden

596
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:12,560
and on the cross and through that entire process, and when we match our rock bottom or bring

597
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:20,400
our rock bottom to His rock bottom, and we experience the redeeming love that happened

598
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,960
because of His rock bottom, because of what He went through, even to the point where even

599
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,580
His own Father withdrew.

600
00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:36,500
As we go through that and as we go there, that becomes so evident in my life.

601
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:42,160
And I think others feel the same way, that as we go through, behold, I say unto you,

602
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,760
my brethren, if you have experienced that change of heart, that's where that change

603
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,840
of heart comes from me.

604
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,040
That's where that broken heart, that contrite spirit, that process begins.

605
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,040
Which is a gift.

606
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:58,320
And if you've experienced that, that gift, and if you have felt to sing the song of redeeming

607
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,280
love, I would ask, do you feel to do so now?

608
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,320
In other words, what He's saying there is that's not a one and done either.

609
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:12,480
We don't just feel that to have the desire to sing the song of redeeming love, that's

610
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,320
just not a one-time experience for us.

611
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,880
That can be something that we get to experience time and time again as we bring our rock bottoms

612
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,720
and whereas we bring our difficulties in any magnitude.

613
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:25,760
It should be daily, Scott.

614
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:26,760
Absolutely.

615
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,480
That's what the repentance is all about.

616
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,480
It should be daily.

617
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,440
It should be moment by moment.

618
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:38,200
It's again to look unto me in every thought, doubt not, fear not.

619
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:48,520
Anyway, so this question causes me such, I know this is ironical to say it this way,

620
00:46:48,520 --> 00:47:02,520
but it brings me such depth of sorrow for my sins, but such joy in my redemption.

621
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:10,880
To know that He has redeemed me through His blood brings such joy, it changes my countenance,

622
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,780
it makes me more humble, it makes me more meek.

623
00:47:15,780 --> 00:47:24,120
I do really believe this, Scott, with all my heart, that the way to recognize forgiveness

624
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:36,820
in our life is when our gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ is greater than

625
00:47:36,820 --> 00:47:39,440
our guilt.

626
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:48,360
When our gratitude for Jesus Christ in His atonement is greater than and supersedes our

627
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:58,140
guilt for our sins, we should recognize that we are being forgiven.

628
00:47:58,140 --> 00:48:07,280
When our focus is more on Him than on our sins, when our focus is more on Him than my

629
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:19,400
inadequacies or my sins, we should know that we are being forgiven, and that should bring

630
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,500
us great joy and peace.

631
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:29,160
One of the things that we try to do as we go through these ideas is talk about the why

632
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,200
and the how, right?

633
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:37,120
And I think we've been able to identify and establish the why that this is important,

634
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,280
but I think, Dave, you just really hit on something extremely critical, because many

635
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,320
people, you know, you told me earlier that that was one of the big questions that was

636
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:52,800
asked of you when you were teaching this at the university level, is how do we know?

637
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,960
How do we know we've been forgiven?

638
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:03,120
How do we recognize or how are we able to have that experience codified in our own lives,

639
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,860
in our own souls, in our own experience throughout our lives?

640
00:49:05,860 --> 00:49:07,280
And I think you just hit on it again.

641
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,360
Do you want to just kind of repeat that one more time?

642
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,920
Not only was it the number one question I was asked in that course on repentance and

643
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,080
forgiveness that I taught, but it was the number one question by far I was asked as

644
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:25,360
a branch president at the Missionary Training Center by missionaries, all of them trying

645
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:31,560
to repent and receive and recognize and retain forgiveness in their life.

646
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:38,160
The number one question was, how can I know or recognize that I'm forgiven?

647
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:46,300
Honestly, I don't want to oversimplify it, but my own experience and the experience of

648
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:53,680
others who've shared their experiences with me is that when your gratitude—and maybe

649
00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:02,680
I should include, when your understanding of and gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus

650
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:16,600
Christ is greater than the guilt of your sins, you'll know that you're forgiven.

651
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:25,200
And that has been my experience, Scott, and I rejoice in that experience.

652
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:35,440
And I should maybe also say that that is not something, again, that we just, by our own

653
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:45,600
willpower or our own mental or emotional or psychological powers that we do on our own,

654
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,380
it comes through the gift of the Holy Ghost.

655
00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:52,880
That gratitude I'm speaking of, that understanding that I'm speaking of that comes into our

656
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:57,600
heart and mind comes to us through the Holy Ghost.

657
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:05,700
The Holy Ghost is the messenger and the administrator of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

658
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:13,680
The Holy Ghost is the messenger and the administrator of mercy and grace and forgiveness in our

659
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:14,680
lives.

660
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:23,360
And as an eye ring, you have said in multiple times that whenever we recognize the Holy

661
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:32,000
Ghost in our life, that we should understand, know that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is

662
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,440
working in our life.

663
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,000
That's the key.

664
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,880
So when we learn to recognize the Holy Ghost, what should we know?

665
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,400
We should know that the Atonement is working in our lives.

666
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,200
And we're being forgiven if we're not forgiven already.

667
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,280
And we're being drawn nigh unto Him.

668
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,360
And when we're drawn nigh unto Him, Dave, that takes care of the anxiety, the pressure,

669
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:04,760
the sadness, the confusion, the fear, the pride, all of those things.

670
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,200
That's the antidote to all of those things in our lives.

671
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:11,200
And so based on what you just said, and I'm just going to recap this because I want us

672
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:17,840
to make sure that this is deeply ingrained within each one of us.

673
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:23,540
Because we will wonder, there will be times when we're wondering, am I receiving forgiveness?

674
00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:25,560
How do I recognize that forgiveness?

675
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,240
The key, not just to that, but even the key to having the Atonement of Jesus Christ and

676
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,480
the power from it at work in our lives to heal us from all things, including the things

677
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:40,140
that we're talking about right now, is through the administration of the Comforter, the Holy

678
00:52:40,140 --> 00:52:41,140
Ghost.

679
00:52:41,140 --> 00:52:47,040
And so the way, the thing that we should do, the takeaway here, or our action step here

680
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:53,760
should be, in order for us, or if we desire to have that comfort, that peace, those feelings

681
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:58,960
of forgiveness, the recognizing that it's there, and to also know the effects of the

682
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,940
sins that we've perhaps perpetuated against others.

683
00:53:03,940 --> 00:53:05,500
Those effects are being healed.

684
00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:09,400
In order for us to have that and receive that knowledge and the confirmation that that's

685
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,560
true, we should be working diligently through daily repentance, and that's where the joy

686
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,360
from the daily repentance comes from, that President Nelson talked about.

687
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:25,320
That joy comes from, because of that, we now have the Holy Ghost in our lives.

688
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,400
Right.

689
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:34,000
And that includes reading our Scriptures daily, saying our prayers, which is a form of work

690
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,960
and worship.

691
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:41,140
There is a form of work and worship, and we need to be engaged.

692
00:53:41,140 --> 00:53:44,240
We have to be participants in this process.

693
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:52,040
But that ultimately, it comes to us as a gift, and we are changed in our hearts, and we can

694
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,240
sing the song of redeeming love.

695
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:59,160
When we were speaking about that, Scott, I thought about years ago, the conference talk

696
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:08,160
that was given, that many of us are trying to dance without ever hearing the music.

697
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:14,640
And that's a funny picture, try to watch somebody dance without hearing the music.

698
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:24,440
When we sing the song of redeeming love, the music, the beautiful music, is the atonement

699
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,680
of Jesus Christ in our lives.

700
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:37,760
When we hear that music, when we can feel that, it's simple, really.

701
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:45,720
The process of being born again, of being converted to the Lord, of being forgiven of

702
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:51,160
our sins, is really quite a simple process.

703
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,040
And as we speak about all of this, Scott, I have thought about a talk that was given

704
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:01,720
many years ago, before even Elder Bednar was ordained an apostle while he was still president

705
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:02,720
at BYU-Idaho.

706
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:10,000
In fact, right after Rick's college became BYU-Idaho, he gave this amazing talk called

707
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,520
Line Upon Line, Precept Upon Precept.

708
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:18,660
And I just want to read a portion of this from his talk, and then compare receiving

709
00:55:18,660 --> 00:55:26,960
an answer to prayer, comparing it to receiving forgiveness from our sins.

710
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:34,040
He quotes 2 Nephi, chapter 28, line upon line, precept upon precept, and he says,

711
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:40,760
"'If you and I would learn to discern the difference between our own emotions and the

712
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:48,120
promptings of the Holy Ghost, then we must come to recognize the Lord's pattern'—there's

713
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:49,120
that word again—'pattern.'

714
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,960
You've got to run the pattern and process for giving us spiritual knowledge.'

715
00:55:53,960 --> 00:56:01,560
And the phrase line upon line, precept upon precept, describes a central feature of the

716
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:02,560
Lord's pattern.

717
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:10,960
I believe many of us unknowingly accept a faulty assumption about the Lord's pattern.

718
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:19,320
And this faulty assumption then produces erroneous expectations about how we receive spiritual

719
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:24,000
knowledge—and think again about receiving forgiveness.

720
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:31,840
And that faulty assumption and our misinformed expectations ultimately hinder our ability

721
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:38,760
to recognize and receive and respond to the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

722
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:49,760
Let me suggest that many of us typically assume we will receive an answer or a prompting to

723
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,640
our earnest prayers and pleadings.

724
00:56:52,640 --> 00:57:00,180
And we also frequently expect that such an answer or a prompting will come immediately

725
00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:02,280
and all at once.

726
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:11,920
Thus, we tend to believe the Lord will give us a big answer quickly and all at one time.

727
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:20,080
However, the pattern repeatedly described in the Scriptures suggests we receive line

728
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:30,200
upon line, precept upon precept, or in other words, many small answers or forgiveness over

729
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,140
a longer period of time.

730
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:39,640
Recognizing and understanding this pattern is an important key in obtaining inspiration

731
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:47,920
and help and forgiveness from the Holy Ghost.

732
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,200
That was so enlightening to me.

733
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,660
Read that so many years ago and it's always been in my mind and it's helped me in my

734
00:57:55,660 --> 00:58:01,280
relationship with my Heavenly Father not only in receiving answers to prayers, line upon

735
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:07,880
line, precept upon precept, or receiving revelation in my life, but also receiving forgiveness

736
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:08,880
in my life.

737
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:18,600
I mean, I recognize and the Scriptures have examples of individuals who have this traumatic,

738
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:24,920
dramatic experience in receiving forgiveness in their life when it does come all at once.

739
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:29,560
I can say that I have received that experience from time to time in my life.

740
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:36,760
But more often the pattern is that it comes line upon line, precept upon precept, here

741
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:42,400
a little, there a little, day by day, week by week, month by month.

742
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:50,360
But recognizing that Holy Ghost and receiving Him in our life is the key to that process

743
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:51,360
and pattern.

744
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,360
And that's enough.

745
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,920
Yes, it really is.

746
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:03,840
And I have to say that when I have faith in Jesus Christ that He will answer my prayers,

747
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:09,080
meaning I also have faith not only in Jesus Christ or faith in my Heavenly Father that

748
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:17,000
they will answer my prayers, but the timing of their answers.

749
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,720
That's really an important part of this, right?

750
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:27,040
That forgiveness comes in the timing of the Lord, not what we choose or demand in the

751
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,600
process.

752
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,640
So we have to have timing in the process.

753
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:37,600
However, when I have faith in Jesus Christ and faith in His timing, faith in my Heavenly

754
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:47,280
Father and His timing, faith in the Holy Ghost and His timing, then I can say, okay, it's

755
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:53,120
only a matter of time before I am forgiven.

756
00:59:53,120 --> 01:00:00,000
And even that, Scott, gives me great peace and joy when I understand that.

757
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,000
Yeah, me too.

758
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,640
In fact, I think there's a great deal of heavenly wisdom all wrapped up into all of that.

759
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,280
And I think those experiences are prescribed for us individually.

760
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:16,520
I believe that, you know, for example, when Joseph Smith had his experience, when Heavenly

761
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:21,040
Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him immediately, he'd been praying about this before.

762
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,840
We talked about that, perhaps.

763
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,080
But you know, he had that experience.

764
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,600
He started that two years before that happened.

765
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:32,920
And we've all had experiences, I can't say we all, I assume, I trust that we've all had

766
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:38,080
experiences where we have felt our Heavenly Father's immediate presence when we've needed

767
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:39,080
it.

768
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:43,640
But there's also been, and there's wisdom for Scott in this, at least, in making it

769
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:48,360
something that I, if it's not a daily effort for me, I get distracted.

770
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,480
I tend to forget.

771
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,480
I tend to.

772
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:52,480
Yeah, true.

773
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:53,480
You can really wander.

774
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:54,480
Exactly.

775
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:55,480
Be lost.

776
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:56,480
Exactly.

777
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:02,480
And so that daily rectifying my own life, that daily inventory, that daily coming to

778
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:08,600
Him, that daily repentance of turning away from all things that are not Him and turning

779
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:14,400
towards Him and embracing Him and inviting Him in my life, and even more importantly,

780
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,240
accepting His invitation to come unto me.

781
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,040
That's when all that starts happening.

782
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,040
And maybe we can conclude with a short story.

783
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,560
And there's lots more we'll talk about on our next episode, right?

784
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,760
Because we haven't really talked about how to recognize the Holy Ghost completely in

785
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:34,600
our lives like I think we should, and we need to talk about how to retain a remission of

786
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:35,960
sins as well.

787
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,760
And we can finish it up in the next episode.

788
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:43,960
But a quick story about a missionary at the MTC who had done some pretty awful things.

789
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,280
And this was an amazing young man.

790
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:53,360
His companion told me this, not him, but they were both, this companionship, both of them

791
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,320
were from Oregon.

792
01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:01,600
And his companion pointed out to me that this young man, who I'm going to describe in a

793
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:07,880
minute, it was the vote of the, he was Mr. Oregon or the greatest football player, the

794
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,720
most valuable football player in the high school in Oregon.

795
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:17,200
And he had a full ride scholarship to play for the Nebraska Cornhuskers.

796
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,560
And this is when they were national champions, the Nebraska Cornhuskers back in the day,

797
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,760
back in the late 80s.

798
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:30,880
And he had done some pretty, some pretty hard things, bad things.

799
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:36,760
And he was going to have to go home and take some time to repent.

800
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,800
And he went home and he worked hard and he read the Book of Mormon multiple times and

801
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:42,400
met with the stake president weekly.

802
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:47,320
And I called him weekly and he came back after about six months.

803
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:54,760
And he and I had a lot of personal conversations and lots of tears and spiritual experiences

804
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,800
together at the MTC before he left on his mission.

805
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:03,400
And I don't know if I recall this right, but I think he was going to South Africa.

806
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:07,040
Before he left, he said, I still don't know if I'm forgiven.

807
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:11,560
And I said, Elder, it will happen.

808
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:17,520
In fact, with an eye of faith, I can see that it's already happened.

809
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,240
But you'll know.

810
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:20,860
You will know.

811
01:03:20,860 --> 01:03:25,760
And when you know, I want you to send me that letter.

812
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,360
He went to South Africa on his mission.

813
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,200
And he sent me a letter.

814
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,640
And the letter, I was a little disappointed.

815
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,860
It said, do you think I need to get a new patriarchal blessing?

816
01:03:35,860 --> 01:03:39,040
Because when I got my old patriarchal blessing, I wasn't worthy.

817
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,880
Do you think I should get a new one?

818
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,040
That was his concern and still beating himself up.

819
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,360
And I wrote him and said, no, no, no.

820
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,020
The Lord saw you.

821
01:03:49,020 --> 01:03:50,280
He saw all your life.

822
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:55,280
And all these things are conditioned and conditional upon your faithfulness.

823
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,280
All these will be fulfilled.

824
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,960
Anyway, I wrote him a long letter back.

825
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:04,520
And then, I don't know, it was another month or two, he sent me another letter.

826
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:10,720
And I hesitantly opened the letter, wondering what his concern was now, because he was kind

827
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:16,480
of such a perfectionist and had such high expectations of himself and was really beating

828
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,520
himself up all this time.

829
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,040
And I opened the envelope.

830
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:27,840
And there was a single piece of paper, and I opened the, unfolded the paper, and there

831
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,480
were only three words.

832
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,800
Scott, I still have this.

833
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:38,680
It's one of the greatest, well, it is probably the greatest letter I ever received.

834
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:43,880
And it said in great, big, bold letters, these three words took up the entire page, 8 1

835
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:48,040
8 1 2 by 11 piece of paper.

836
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:54,760
I am clean!

837
01:04:54,760 --> 01:05:00,680
Exclamation mark, exclamation mark.

838
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,440
That's all it said.

839
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:03,440
And I wrote him a letter back.

840
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:08,000
And I said, hey, you got to tell me what happened.

841
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:14,320
He sent me a letter, and he described that one, he was being a good missionary and working

842
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:20,200
hard and being faithful and obedient.

843
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:28,320
And he said, I woke up one morning, and after I said my prayers, I went into the bathroom

844
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:38,040
to shave, and I looked in the mirror, and I was a different person.

845
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,640
I was a different person, he said.

846
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,840
My countenance was different.

847
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:57,200
I knew, he recognized finally, I knew the Lord had forgiven me.

848
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:06,400
That's a profound but simple, sweet experience, Scott, that I know can be true for all of

849
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:18,000
us, that as we exercise faith and endure and continue in faith in our understanding of

850
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:27,640
and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Atonement, that we can know that we are forgiven.

851
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:35,120
And it may be dramatic, and it may be profound, or it may be just really small, sweet, in

852
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:37,600
simple ways.

853
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:42,480
But our Heavenly Father, who loves us all perfectly and infinitely, extends those tender

854
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:48,640
mercies to us individually in ways that we are best suited to receive them, in the ways

855
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,440
that will best affect our lives.

856
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:55,880
And what a wonderful, wonderful testimony, what a wonderful tender mercy that that young

857
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:57,920
missionary got to experience.

858
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:07,840
Please be at the perfect time as we are prepared and qualify ourselves to receive it.

859
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:12,000
It is a gift that cannot be earned.

860
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,360
It must be received.

861
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:20,120
Maybe by way of invitation this week, we would invite you to go back to the Book of Mormon

862
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:25,380
and Alma, chapter 5, and go through and just review those questions and see which ones

863
01:07:25,380 --> 01:07:32,600
stand out to you, see which ones lend poignancy to your own life and the circumstances and

864
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,040
conditions around your life today.

865
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:41,880
And then do what we need to do to have the administration of the Atonement of Jesus Christ

866
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:47,880
through the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost, in our lives and working to have that presence

867
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,080
always in our lives.

868
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:56,120
The promise of healing and the promise of change and the promise of confidence in the

869
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,800
presence of our Heavenly Father and all things like Him is there.

870
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,840
Do you have any final thoughts before we say goodbye until next week?

871
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,000
I don't think so, Scott.

872
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:12,520
I'm sorry that we didn't answer all the questions about the receiving, recognizing, and retaining

873
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,280
the mission of sins, but we'll pick that up on the next one.

874
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:23,560
I'm grateful for the experience to be with you and the spirit that I know you and I feel

875
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,480
together as we talk about these things.

876
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:32,400
I know we'll have plenty of time to take on those other topics and those other commitments

877
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:33,440
that we've made to you.

878
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:39,200
I think it's important as we're led by the Spirit to follow down the things that we've

879
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,140
talked about today.

880
01:08:41,140 --> 01:08:46,640
These are surely important things in each of our lives as we do our best to draw onto

881
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,400
Him.

882
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,720
Remember that our Heavenly Father loves you perfectly.

883
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:58,480
He's completely and acutely aware of every little detail of your life, every little detail

884
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:01,280
in your life, and He cares about that.

885
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:06,560
If we will all work to have the Spirit of the Holy Ghost in our lives so that we can

886
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:11,920
feel the effects and the power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through His Atonement,

887
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,480
those things will be made for our benefit.

888
01:09:15,480 --> 01:09:17,480
They will bring us closer to Him.

889
01:09:17,480 --> 01:09:24,080
They will give us deeper testimonies, a deeper commitment, a more loving heart, and the ability

890
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:29,360
to navigate this life in the same way that He would, the Prince of Peace.

891
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:35,320
Hope we're all singing the song of redeeming love this week.

892
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,080
I hope we are too.

893
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:38,080
Thanks, Dave.

894
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:39,440
It's always great to be with you.

895
01:09:39,440 --> 01:09:41,040
It's great to be with you all.

896
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,760
Remember that you have been redeemed through His blood.

897
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:48,760
I hope that we are all in the process of accepting that redemption.

898
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:54,280
We look forward to being with you next week, and until then, everybody take care, and we

899
01:09:54,280 --> 01:10:20,680
will see you then.