1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,240 Hi everybody and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:23,600 In this podcast we discuss hope, healing and redemption through the atonement of Jesus 3 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:24,600 Christ. 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:25,600 I'm Scott Durfey. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,800 Let me introduce my partner in this project, our teacher, David Durfey. 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,920 Good morning everyone. 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,000 Nice to be with you. 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,760 As always, Dave's good to have you here looking forward to another great day of podcasts. 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:44,440 We want to thank everybody for your contributions through emails and suggestions and suggestions 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,240 on how maybe we can be better. 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,000 But most importantly, we're really grateful for the questions that we've been receiving. 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,600 We've received several questions. 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:58,280 We'll be addressing many of those throughout the course of our podcast series here. 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:04,360 So we want to just encourage you to continue to send those questions to us, make recommendations, 15 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,880 any suggestions you may have. 16 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,240 We're definitely open to those. 17 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,920 You can do that at our email. 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,760 Here's that address. 19 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,960 He redeems us at gmail.com. 20 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:17,600 Again, just encourage your questions, comments, etc. 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:24,280 So as we start today's podcast, Dave, what do you think is our best course of action 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:25,680 in moving forward? 23 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,360 Well, thank you, Scott. 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:35,680 By the way, to our listeners who have emailed us, we really are thankful for your questions 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,160 and comments. 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:45,920 We may not always directly reference your questions or your comments, but they do influence 27 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,360 us. 28 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,400 For example, I'm thinking of one right now who had a really great question about Luke 29 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,200 chapter seven. 30 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,960 We're going to answer that. 31 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,760 We're going to get to that where it kind of more appropriately fits into our outline. 32 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:12,760 We may not even reference the question directly, but it will influence what we say and how 33 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,360 we teach, recognizing forgiveness and the power of Christ's forgiveness and His love 34 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,280 in our life. 35 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:26,520 If you happen to ask a question and you need an immediate answer, maybe you need to tell 36 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,600 us that and tell us how we can reach out to you. 37 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:40,320 Or just thank you for being patient in us, getting around to answering those questions. 38 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:50,640 So last week we spoke about faith in Christ and faith in the name of Christ. 39 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:58,880 We have talked about the difference levels of faith generally and specifically in Christ. 40 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:05,800 And how can we obtain a little bit the faith of power, which is the highest level of faith, 41 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,560 the faith of power in our lives? 42 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:17,360 There's everything from faith of I believe, I hope, I know, and then the faith of power 43 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,520 described by President Nelson and others, the faith to move mountains, and the faith 44 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,320 to command, the faith to anything that you speak. 45 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:32,200 It will be according to the will of God and therefore it will be done. 46 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:38,200 Those are many great examples of the highest level of faith in the scriptures. 47 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:45,240 And we need to reiterate that even God performs miracles by His faith. 48 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,600 God creates worlds by faith. 49 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:54,480 That's all in, that's mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11 verse 1 and in the lectures of 50 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,240 faith that God has faith. 51 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:07,360 And someday as we progress in our levels of faith, someday we can only hope and aspire 52 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:13,400 in righteousness to have that level of faith and to become more like Him. 53 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:22,680 So we also talked about what it means to call upon the name, the difference between just 54 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:28,280 calling upon God and calling upon the name of the Lord. 55 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:33,600 It's just really interesting as you study your scriptures, if you'll just really pay 56 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:40,320 attention and your ears will kind of perk up and your eyes get a little larger when 57 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:47,200 you read in the name or on the name, faith in the name, calling upon the name. 58 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:55,680 I just think it can really inspire our listeners, it inspires me, it kind of helps me to just 59 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:06,920 really focus on Jesus Christ and the power in His name, the power in using His name. 60 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:15,440 And ultimately that exaltation in our progress in this life is based upon our relationship 61 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:26,160 with Him, which is a covenant relationship based upon us taking upon ourselves His name. 62 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:32,760 So in the scriptures, calling upon the name, when most people read that, they immediately 63 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,920 think of prayer, to call upon the name of the Lord. 64 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:42,080 Well I know that it means prayer, in the lowest level it means prayer. 65 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:48,640 In the highest level of that phrase in the scriptures, it means to participate in the 66 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,840 ordinances, the saving ordinances of the gospel. 67 00:05:53,840 --> 00:06:01,000 And I actually first became aware of that, reading a Protestant commentary of the Bible. 68 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:12,480 I was reading this commentary of the Bible in Acts chapter 22 and in the commentary on 69 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:19,560 verses 12 through 16 where Ananias is speaking to Paul and you get to verse 16 and Ananias 70 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,720 says to Paul, I'll read verse 16, this is chapter 22 of Acts. 71 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,440 So before you do that Dave, let's just recap real quick. 72 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,760 What's happened to Paul now? 73 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:35,800 Paul has been struck blind and now he's been led to this home of Ananias and so he's gone 74 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:42,280 through this experience and we know that Paul has had kind of a colored or checkered past 75 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,480 in terms of his relationship with Christians. 76 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,440 We know that he was there when Stephen the prophet was stoned. 77 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:55,520 We know that there was probably held his cloak and there was a lot of other things that Paul 78 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:03,640 had done that really was kind of against the grain of Christianity at that time. 79 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Yeah, yeah Paul has now been called by the Lord and as he is led to Ananias, a prophet, 80 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:23,880 he receives this counsel from Ananias and in verse 16 Ananias says to Paul who will soon 81 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,280 be to Saul who will soon become Paul. 82 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,760 Okay, this is what reference one more time. 83 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:41,880 Acts 22 verse 16 and now why terrius thou Ananias asks Saul arise and be baptized and 84 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:49,480 wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. 85 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:55,320 So in this Protestant commentary I read years ago they said calling upon the name of the 86 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:02,040 Lord means to take upon ourselves the name of the Lord to receive power in our lives 87 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:10,160 through the name of the Lord and receiving that name in our life by being baptized. 88 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,480 So through ordinances. 89 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,640 Yes, and we learn right. 90 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:21,760 We learn in Mosiah five that taking upon ourselves the name to be called after Christ's name 91 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:29,160 to become the children of Christ that is being baptized and then because of the restoration 92 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,880 of the fullness of the gospel we know that going to the temple we take upon ourselves 93 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,960 his name his holy name. 94 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,280 I think we read that in in doctrine comes section 109 that we go to the house of the 95 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,680 Lord to take upon ourselves his name and even a more sacred and even in a in a deeper sort 96 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:55,640 of way it's symbolic the temple of the of the Middle East marriage covenant and to become 97 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,280 joint heirs with Christ. 98 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:06,880 So calling upon the name as you read the scriptures really means to participate in the ordinances 99 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,240 of the gospel and before we participate in the ordinance of the gospel we are commanded 100 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:21,960 to repent and in Alma chapter 34 amulet teaches us that calling upon the name of the Lord means 101 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:30,680 to call upon his mercy and to call upon Christ and his atonement for his forgiveness. 102 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:38,440 So in verse 17 it reads of Alma chapter 34 I'll read 17 and 18. 103 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:43,600 Therefore may God grant unto you my brother and remember he's speaking to the Zora mites 104 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,280 and this is a follow up to Alma's incredible discourse on faith and how to how to plant 105 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:56,960 the seed in our hearts and obtain faith by looking to Christ. 106 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:03,280 Isaac says therefore may God grant unto you my brother and that you may begin to exercise 107 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:11,320 your faith unto repentance that you begin to call upon his holy name that he would have 108 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,160 mercy upon you. 109 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:19,560 Ye cry into him for mercy for he is mighty to save. 110 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:30,040 So we know that calling upon the name again means to pray but it's not just a common prayer 111 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,840 it's a prayer for mercy. 112 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:42,960 It's a prayer or crying out, crying out unto God for mercy for salvation for redemption 113 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:52,000 for forgiveness, calling upon the name upon his holy name is I believe the process described 114 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:58,000 in the scriptures to call upon Jesus Christ and the power of his atonement. 115 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:06,080 We can do that through prayer at the beginning and ultimately the highest order of calling 116 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:12,480 upon the name is to participate in the ordinances of the gospel and this is this takes us through 117 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:20,600 the process we call repentance which which we need to talk more about today is what repentance 118 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:26,720 is and we probably should begin our discussion of repentance Scott by describing what it's 119 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:27,720 not. 120 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,960 Yeah I agree with that. 121 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:36,880 I think I just want to I just want to kind of highlight one thing in chapter Alma 34 122 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,320 17 halfway down or through that verse I'll just read the whole verse actually. 123 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,560 Therefore may God grant unto you my brother in that you may get begin to exercise your 124 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:49,320 faith unto repentance. 125 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:56,360 So the way Amulet makes it sound here Dave is that this is a process this isn't a one 126 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:02,240 time event this isn't just something that we get to and we do we come to and we do for 127 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:10,600 example but it's actually a process that you may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance 128 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,960 that you begin to call upon his holy name that he would have mercy on you so you're asking 129 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:21,800 him to have mercy on you but also that this qualifies us for his mercy on us am I reading 130 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,800 that correctly. 131 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:29,240 Yeah absolutely you know crying unto God is an important part of that process we call 132 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:36,720 repentance crying out to him and we cry out to him to have the blood or the atonement 133 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,360 of Jesus Christ applied in our life. 134 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:46,840 We cry out to God to be able to access the power and the atonement of Jesus Christ and 135 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:53,160 how do we do it in the name of Jesus Christ. 136 00:12:53,160 --> 00:13:01,440 I don't know if we really understand fully or appreciate as much as we should what it 137 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:10,880 really means to pray in the name or to call upon the name of Jesus Christ so many times 138 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:17,920 when we pray we just it just rolls off our tongue and it just we just end our prayers 139 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:27,800 in the name and it doesn't it doesn't take upon it doesn't have the power upon us that 140 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,320 it should have upon us. 141 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,880 I think of you know when I think of this type of a prayer I automatically and for obvious 142 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:43,400 reasons my mind has been trained to go to these types of things but the 11th step of 143 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:51,400 our recovery programs says the sought sought through prayer and meditation to maintain 144 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:57,720 a conscious contact with God and I think of I think of when we're talking about praying 145 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,760 this way calling upon him that's what we're really doing is it's a communion it's a we're 146 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,320 putting effort into it we're listening and that's part of our effort we're listening 147 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,600 we're feeling we're listening with our hearts too so we're feeling and all of these things 148 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:19,720 that can help us bring us closer to him do really helps us to take upon us his name so 149 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,080 go right ahead. 150 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:30,800 So in in our religious tradition that calling upon the name is the name of Jesus Christ 151 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:39,400 and receiving that name not just invoking it in prayer but when we when we use it and 152 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:48,160 when we call upon it Scott we are invoking the power of Christ in his atonement in our 153 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:56,520 life and ultimately and I believe this an important part of repentance is to participate 154 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:03,720 in the ordinances of the gospel and the sacrament prayer we mentioned this before but it's right 155 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:10,080 in the sacrament prayer that the sacrament is evidence of our willingness to take upon 156 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:20,160 ourselves the name of Christ all of that is what it means to call upon the name of Christ 157 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:30,240 or to call upon the name of the Lord I used to strike me as being kind of odd that the 158 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:38,520 brother of Jared when before they got in their barges and before they were led to the promised 159 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:48,480 land that while setting on a beach right for for how many for a few years I think how long 160 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,920 were they there like three hours three years wasn't it four years they were there four 161 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:59,600 years setting on a beach for four years maybe being a little comfortable maybe this is a 162 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:07,840 nice place and and they call the place Moriankum or I'm in the ether chapter two and at the 163 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:13,560 end of four years that the Lord came again and did the brother of Jared and stood in 164 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:20,760 the cloud and talked with him this is verse 14 of ether two and this always struck me 165 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:29,120 as being kind of didn't didn't seem right to me and for the space of three hours did 166 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:36,520 the Lord talk with the brother of Jared and chastened him because he remembered not to 167 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:43,640 call upon the name of the Lord and the brother of Jared repented of the evil which he had 168 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:53,200 done and did call upon the name of the Lord well I did I thought that's that's odd he 169 00:16:53,200 --> 00:17:02,000 wouldn't pray for four years here's a prophet here is a prophet who who for four years didn't 170 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:11,640 pray you know I that this that really seemed just not even possible impossible impossible 171 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:18,720 and and so I think when he gets chastised for three hours here chasing because he remembered 172 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:26,000 not to call upon the name of the Lord I think it it means something more than just praying 173 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:32,440 I think that maybe he was too comfortable there that maybe he hadn't quite trusted in 174 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:39,320 the Lord like he should or hadn't maybe received the covenant that he was going to receive 175 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:45,200 or take upon himself really in chapter three when the Lord appears to him something is 176 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,840 going on here other than him not just saying his prayers morning and evening that there's 177 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:59,160 something missing besides just a omission of prayer praying he's not repenting he's not 178 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:05,880 he's not renewing or entering into the covenants perhaps that he's that he should have while 179 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:12,040 he was there and that maybe he shouldn't have been there as long as he had been there for 180 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,960 four years on the beach it's nice beach yeah night must have been a nice beach but that 181 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:25,400 he wasn't being proactive in calling upon the name of the Lord through repenting or participating 182 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:31,520 in the ordinance of the gospel perhaps like he should have so I just I believe that there's 183 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:39,200 there's power that we can receive in our life when we know what we're doing and what it means 184 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,880 to call upon the name of the Lord and when we invoke that name and when we when we use 185 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:53,480 that name there's power in that Scott and it it definitely does affect our relationship 186 00:18:53,480 --> 00:19:00,320 with with our heavenly Father as we call upon him in the name of Jesus Christ and it and 187 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:06,560 it is a reflection how we use his name it's a reflection of our relationship with Jesus 188 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:12,920 Christ himself I wonder how many of us have been on that proverbial beach ourselves I 189 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:18,880 think we all I know I have I know there's been times in my life I'm saying my prayers 190 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,640 I'm going through the motions and doing and you know and I when I say going through the 191 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:29,400 motions I'm not suggesting that my heart's not into it at least at some level but there's 192 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,880 there's a clear and concise difference the way you just put this to us there's a clear 193 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:41,160 and concise difference between being all in or calling upon his name and just being a 194 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:46,640 little bit in and I and I don't know that often in fact I know that in fact we don't 195 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:52,720 often make that cognizant choice or it's not something that's premeditated not something 196 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:58,240 but we just find ourselves there sometimes we just find ourselves because for whatever 197 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,040 reason and we can go back and talk about what those reasons would be but I don't think we 198 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:06,240 need to because I think that we can identify those in our own lives but some of them that 199 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:13,080 may be am I taking my my personal prayers to casual am I really communing and renewing 200 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:18,720 covenants when I'm sitting at the sacrament table on Sunday among many many many other 201 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,760 things how's my commitment to my covenants in the temple how's my commitment my covenants 202 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,720 to my family and and many many other things I wonder how many often how often many of 203 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,960 us and you know we read about this in the Book of Mormon where it says that oftentimes 204 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:41,000 Satan will help us to be lulled away into carnal security causing us to say all is well 205 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:47,600 in Zion ye Zion prospereth when it's not and we can sometimes deceive ourselves or become 206 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:53,480 deceived in believing that you know we're doing well and then we find ourselves like 207 00:20:53,480 --> 00:21:01,760 the brother of Jared Mahonri here right on the beach getting chastised and I bet he was 208 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:07,680 at like yeah you're right you know I don't think any one of us would be surprised if 209 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:13,080 we had something brought to our attention that maybe we're somewhat remiss in in terms 210 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,880 of making sure that we are following through to the nth degree in other words car we really 211 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:26,440 calling upon his name yeah and the sacred nature of all that that means can be really 212 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:35,360 a powerful motivating force in in our life heavenly father is really happy when anybody 213 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:43,160 will pray to him in any form absolutely in any way you know Christian or non-Christian 214 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:50,400 that I know our heavenly father is really grateful for any prayer even the prayer on 215 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:57,680 the food that we sometimes take for granted and even the prayer of a man falling off a 216 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:04,400 cliff oh God help me yeah yeah God hears every prayer and he's grateful and he's touched 217 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:18,400 by by every prayer but to call upon the name of the Lord is a deeper more sacred it's a 218 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:26,320 higher form or level of worship to call upon the name of the Lord to invoke that name and 219 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:33,600 to express our willingness to take upon ourselves his name and and to call upon Christ as our 220 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:41,280 advocate and mediator to the father and to receive covenants in his name that's all a 221 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:47,320 deeper part of our of our worship or at least it should be Scott yeah I agree I think too 222 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:54,320 Dave that we could safely say that when Jesus said come unto me all you that labor that this 223 00:22:54,320 --> 00:23:00,760 is part of that coming unto me this is a more complete coming unto our Lord the Savior Jesus 224 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,960 Christ is when we call upon his name and we're going to get into why that is indeed the case 225 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,880 as we start to talk about covenants and how those things you know work their way into 226 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:17,080 our lives or how we bring them into our lives by fully calling upon his name and right now 227 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:22,880 we're going to talk about it as we talk about the process we call repentance again everyone 228 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:30,720 we have we have we have said this and we'll continue to say this that redemption through 229 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:37,640 the blood of Christ and the power to be able to access the the atonement of Jesus Christ 230 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:50,120 in our life is following the doctrine of Christ that is that is the actions that allow us to 231 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:58,560 access the power and blood of Christ in our lives and again the doctrine of Christ is 232 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:08,240 faith in Christ its repentance its baptism receiving the Holy Ghost and enduring to the 233 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:16,000 end which includes our continual participation in the atonement of Jesus Christ through the 234 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:27,640 ordinances of the gospel including partaking of the sacrament so as we have as we move on 235 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:36,320 from faith in Christ we want to talk about repentance and what that means I think before 236 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:48,560 we talk about what it is we need to talk about what it is not so I want to offer maybe for 237 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:55,200 there's so many and I guess there's you could we could make a long list of a dozen or more 238 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:02,520 of what repentance is not but I think these four are really critical and the four that 239 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:09,440 often seem to grab the attention mostly of students that I taught in the repentance and 240 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:18,440 forgiveness class and the first one is I think maybe the most important one to understand 241 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:29,080 and so let me just kind of say it this way faith is not absolutely is not the punishment 242 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:39,920 for sin the payment for sin or the penalty for sin repentance is not punishment repentance 243 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:49,800 is not the penalty repentance is not the payment for any sin we cannot pay back in any form 244 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:58,120 or fashion in all of the suffering we go through because of our sins the consequences of our 245 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:07,560 sins nothing that we can do can pay back one millionth of one percent of any sin we ever 246 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:20,280 commit Jesus Christ paid the punishment all of it 100% of it not not 99.9 100% he met the 247 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:31,080 demands of justice for all of us he paid the penalty he suffered the consequences in the 248 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:40,240 payment penalty and punishment for our sins he suffered spiritual death all for us because 249 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:49,880 of our sins so Dave I believe that and I know that to be the case now but you know we read 250 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:56,480 we read in the scriptures for example in Dr. and Covenants section 19 verse 4 right and 251 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:03,800 it says and surely every man must repent or suffer for I God I'm endless and so if repentance 252 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:10,080 is not punishment and it says here that if we don't repent we must suffer it says their 253 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:19,540 antonyms read verse 4 again and surely every man must repent or suffer okay so repentance 254 00:27:19,540 --> 00:27:27,040 is an antonym to suffering right right so if you repent you won't suffer if you if you 255 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:36,240 repent you won't pay the price you won't you can't pay the punishment I just think I just 256 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:43,240 think we misread that yeah I do too now I know president Kimball president Oaks and 257 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:49,920 many others who have taught repentance teach that if we don't suffer then we can't fully 258 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:56,160 repent well I get that because I've experienced a broken heart and contrite spirit believe 259 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:04,520 me that's not that's not easy and they're suffering involved a broken heart hurts they're suffering 260 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:13,440 they're suffering as a result of our sins because of our sins but repentance is not the payment 261 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:20,360 for sins because Jesus did all of that repentance is actually the anecdote to sins because if 262 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:24,840 you think about it and we're going to talk about this here's a spoiler alert we're going 263 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,520 to talk about how repentance is actually a turning away from our sins and turning toward 264 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,640 the Savior and coming unto him that's what repentance really is and we're going to talk 265 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,520 about that I don't want to get into that in full right now but it's important that we 266 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:47,320 kind of know that going into this because in in verses 16 through 18 of that exact same 267 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,880 section in the Doctrine and Covenants 19 it reads for behold I God have suffered these 268 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:58,360 things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent but if they keep reading 269 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,360 so that means though that if they would turn to him then the suffering won't need to be 270 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,960 in other words put it put on the atonement of Jesus Christ but if they would not repent 271 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,960 they must suffer even as I which suffering caused myself even God the greatest of all 272 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,600 to tremble because of pain and to bleed at every poor and to suffer both body and spirit 273 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,920 and would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink and then you got to read verse 274 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,560 20 Scott and 19 actually this is this is what we're going to suffer if we don't repent 275 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,000 then this is what we're going to suffer but nowhere in the verses that you just read 276 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,920 does it say that we're going to suffer for our sins now that's that's important I know 277 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:49,600 that's been said but because the word because can be easily used in place of the word for 278 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:56,640 so when when others say and and I know it's in in some writings and teachings that that's 279 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,720 been taught in the church that people say that you that if you don't repent you will 280 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:09,200 suffer for your sins I believe that means that we will suffer because of our sins I 281 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,520 do too all right so let me read 19 never nevertheless glory be to the father and I 282 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:21,760 per took and I finished my preparations unto the children men where for this is verse 20 283 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:29,320 therefore I command you again to repent lest I humble you with my almighty power and that 284 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:36,440 you confess your sins lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken of which 285 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:44,000 in the smallest yay even in the least degree you have tasted at any time I withdrew when 286 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:50,520 I withdrew when I withdrew my spirit so losing the losing the spirit losing the Holy Ghost 287 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,480 and the Holy Ghost can't stay with us when we sin that's our punishment for sins that's 288 00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:02,920 it but there's nothing about that that that meets the demands of justice Christ paid for 289 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:09,960 all of our sins I want to read this is from Elder Anderson's book called the divine gift 290 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:19,000 of forgiveness we have no ability to pay for our own sins repentance is exactly the opposite 291 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:27,240 of punishment repentance relieves the guilt and pain and suffering caused by sin Jesus 292 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:35,640 Christ paid for all the sins of all the world a little pause here elder Anderson and I once 293 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:44,560 had a discussion about this and all of the times we read in the verses that talk about 294 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,680 Jesus Christ paying for all the sin and sometimes it's singular in the Bible it's singular 295 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:59,480 one time but most of the time it's plural paid for all the sins of all the world and 296 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:05,920 we could we even know worlds right worlds without number and then he goes on and says 297 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:12,320 our repentance does not pay for one ounce of the sins we have committed the Atonement 298 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:19,320 of Jesus Christ fulfilled all the demands of justice perfectly and exactly our attention 299 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:26,440 must be on him and our appreciation must be for his suffering if we worry this is so important 300 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:32,600 this sentence is one of my favorite in the book because I think it's it can really if 301 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:38,080 we don't understand what repentance is not that it's not the payment punishment or penalty 302 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:45,000 for sin people who don't understand that Scott it becomes a major hang up or stumbling block 303 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,960 for them to repent and that's why I want to talk about this so much because I believe 304 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,120 David and I've been I've been I've been this guy that guy and I know many others in the 305 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:59,440 church have also right and when we get stuck and hung up on this stuff we don't have a 306 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,560 clear and concise view of what the Atonement of Jesus Christ really is and how it works 307 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:12,360 in our lives right so go ahead so he he writes quote if we worry whether we have paid back 308 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:22,600 or suffered enough for our sins it will impede our ability to repent and to ever feel forgiven 309 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:29,880 bringing painful discouragement with it well there's so many in the church who are stuck 310 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:38,960 on trying to suffer enough I haven't suffered enough I haven't been punished enough and 311 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:46,760 they like want to flog themselves and self disparage themselves and beat themselves up 312 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:52,800 and shame themselves thinking that that's going to help them to feel forgiven I got 313 00:33:52,800 --> 00:34:00,520 a phone call this morning 6 a.m. from the county jail a man in the county jail and again 314 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:07,280 for you know again for a repeat violation actually this was a parole violation and his 315 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,160 comp and I said hey how you doing you're gonna be okay you know we get trying to encourage 316 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:18,640 and so on and his comment to me was well this is punishment and you know that's so often 317 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:24,640 why we feel that way is because we tend to take what we are familiar with our culture 318 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:32,960 our norms and more is here in our lives and we tend to personify that to a heavenly father 319 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,520 and we can't make God human in this and so I think that it's really easy for us to think 320 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,280 well I'm in jail today as punishment for what I did and I got a repent today as punishment 321 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:49,680 for what I did know what we are learning here is that the difference between punishment 322 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:56,840 and and saving is actually coming through this repentance and so this is a question 323 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,200 we taught this just two weeks ago in our institute class that Debonite my wife and I teach for 324 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:08,640 young single adults at BYU and UVU same course and this was a question that comes up and 325 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:14,720 here it's a question is what's the difference between suffering for your sins and suffering 326 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:23,880 because of your sins and and you know Christ has paid the price and so for us all of it 327 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:30,440 and it's and it's paid for whether we call on his name or not it doesn't change his experience 328 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:36,720 in the garden or on the cross whether we apply it or not what it changes is us that's already 329 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:42,400 been paid it's just us now turning to him and away from the other stuff in our lives 330 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:49,600 that keep us separated from his spirit we we can never suffer enough we can never be punished 331 00:35:49,600 --> 00:36:00,600 enough but because Christ is enough because Christ suffered enough we must learn to rely 332 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:08,160 on him and honestly Scott this is the center of repentance and this is the unfortunately 333 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:14,480 this is a part where so many people fell in their in their efforts and in the process 334 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:25,480 of repentance is they they do they do not know how or they've never been taught to rely 335 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:35,400 totally absolutely completely upon Jesus Christ and his atonement and upon his merits which 336 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:42,880 is the suffering and punishment which he experienced for our sins those are his merits that we 337 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:49,520 need to learn as the Book of Mormon clearly teaches over and over again we must rely upon 338 00:36:49,520 --> 00:37:00,080 his merits and not our own and I don't know why that is so hard for members of the church 339 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:06,160 and and others outside our church it's I guess it's a human nature thing where we where we 340 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:12,160 think we have to pay for it now I'm not saying that there's not suffering I'm not saying 341 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,920 that there isn't discipline I'm not saying that there's there there's it takes a lot 342 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:24,880 of effort on our part to be able to really receive the merits of Christ and the blessings 343 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:32,360 of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life it's not easy but it is repentance really 344 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:44,080 is that simple so again I just I want to restate and I can't do it strongly enough that we 345 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:51,040 will suffer because of our sins and there has to be suffering in repentance which is 346 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:58,600 the broken heart contrite spirit godly sorrow and maybe there'll even be some disciplinary 347 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:07,200 action maybe maybe if our sins are so serious God that it's hurt others it's gone beyond 348 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:15,840 just our own little bubble and it has damaged others then there may be some discipline not 349 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:22,520 just not just civilly on behalf in behalf of the government or our society but but in 350 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:28,680 behalf of the church you know we have membership councils there are consequences sometimes in 351 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:35,760 those councils one's membership may be taken away from them lifted privileges may be taken 352 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:41,960 away or lifted there's there's actions that can take place as a result of those memberships 353 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:51,280 councils but none of that is meant to be in any way shape or form the punishment payment 354 00:38:51,280 --> 00:39:00,120 or penalty for sin these these membership councils are councils of love to help the individual 355 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:06,680 to repent to help them to more speedily repent to help them to center their repentance and 356 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:13,960 their focus on Jesus Christ and the others who he has suffered for which may have been 357 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:20,720 the result of our sins yeah absolutely right I have been in one of those membership councils 358 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:27,960 that you read that you refer to and because of my sins there was a disciplinary my membership 359 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:35,040 was lifted for a time for a couple of years I was not of record a member of the church 360 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,760 of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and to some people and and for whatever reason I 361 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,960 feel like I should say this and so maybe somebody needs to hear this but for some reason in 362 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,320 fact my brother Brian who I was just released as a bishop in his ward not long ago was talking 363 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:57,440 to somebody in our family at a family gathering about this very thing and I heard him say 364 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:04,200 ask Scott and I said what are you talking about over there and he says well I am trying to 365 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,120 tell these guys that membership councils are a spiritual experience they're not a negative 366 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:14,720 thing and he said you told me one time Scott that your membership council was one of the 367 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:20,240 most spiritual experiences that you had ever experienced and he was accurate in that that 368 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:26,800 was absolutely true because there are things that you know in our lives that it feels like 369 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:32,400 even if we haven't damaged other people if or whatever but there are things in our lives 370 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:39,520 that sometimes there are there is a requirement of a deeper calling upon the name which it 371 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:47,400 requires some assistance some power priesthood power etc. and so you know what if we can 372 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:54,280 remember I never felt one time Dave and I mean this I never felt one time that being 373 00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:00,640 in that council was punishment for anything that I had done I saw that as a way to help 374 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:08,600 me turn more fully to calling upon the Savior his name which would prepare me again in the 375 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:16,240 future at that point to participate again in ordinances etc. that would allow the full 376 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:20,960 fullness of the atonement to be alive and well in my life now it was a full it was the fullness 377 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:26,520 of the atonement was alive and well in my life at that time to otherwise the the events 378 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:34,080 would not have been taking place but an important I think thing to note here is that even those 379 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:40,720 even those disciplinary membership I guess I call them even those membership councils 380 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:48,080 are not punishment but an assistance in turning more fully to the Savior Jesus Christ totally 381 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:57,800 and and thank you for sharing that Scott I know that's that's sacred and I've been involved 382 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:05,480 kind of on the ecclesiastical end of dozens of those each of those membership councils 383 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:14,720 and what you're describing your experience to be thank you is the result of your preparation 384 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:19,200 for those councils and where you were at at the time in your life if you would have had 385 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:24,680 that council maybe a year or two earlier you maybe wouldn't have felt that but because 386 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:32,560 you came to the council with a broken heart contrite spirit you did fill the Holy Ghost 387 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:41,080 and and you did receive the real intent of those councils which is to help an individual 388 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:51,880 to improve their relationship with Jesus Christ and to quickly speedily qualify them to be 389 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:58,240 able to make the restitution necessary we'll talk about what that means later to be able 390 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:03,080 to participate in the ordinances and covenants of the gospel to make sure that they're worthy 391 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:09,040 to do that and and I just am really grateful for the experiences I've had in all the membership 392 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:14,840 councils I participated in and almost all of them almost all of them have really been 393 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,760 spiritual experience in fact some of the greatest spiritual experiences of my life I think there 394 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,800 there is some of the most spiritual meetings I've ever had in the church but not always 395 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:33,120 true I've had some really hard ones some really sad ones where individuals were not ready 396 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:39,240 to do that where the church may be called them in where they didn't initiate it but because 397 00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:48,880 of things that they had done or especially in the cases of of of apostasy you know I've 398 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:54,720 unfortunately had the experience of being involved in the case of many individuals some of them 399 00:43:54,720 --> 00:44:04,160 of some no notoriety who who have done some pretty awful things and and the church is 400 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:10,280 required to do that by the Lord to help to help those individuals to protect innocent 401 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:15,720 victims and to protect the integrity of the church so none of that pays back anything 402 00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:24,160 in regards to what is required to meet the demands of justice to pay back or to be punished 403 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:31,320 for our sins Jesus did all that he did all that 100% anything that we do in the church 404 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:37,800 or individually should be to help an individual to understand the atonement of Jesus Christ 405 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:46,160 what he did suffer why he suffered who he suffered for and to help them to be able to 406 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:55,160 accept that to feel gratitude for that and to access that power in their life I I want 407 00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:01,560 to share if I can quickly the analogy the beautiful analogy that Elder Anderson writes 408 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:10,400 in his book about sin and suffering he he writes a person cannot suffer for his sins 409 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:17,240 but he will suffer because of his sins there is always a punishment in sinning but the 410 00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:25,680 punishment the suffering and the pain are caused by the sin not by the repentance when 411 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:32,960 someone has cancer and surgery is required it is not the surgery that is the cause of 412 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:40,240 the suffering it's the cancer the surgery is temporarily difficult but the cancer is 413 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:52,600 the villain not the surgery sin causes suffering not repentance well I really love that because 414 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:58,840 you know president Elton said repentance is joy repentance is joy it's synonymous with 415 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:08,000 joy it's not repentance is not the bad guy repentance is the good guy it's sin that 416 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:15,080 causes us pain and sadness and it's sin that robs us of our peace repentance is to help 417 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,840 us to restore all that but if you were the bad guy and you wanted to persuade people 418 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,760 to not believe that you would make repentance the bad guy yeah which Satan is that a pretty 419 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:31,600 good job has absolutely and especially the way he shames us yeah or especially the way 420 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:37,960 he gets us to shame ourselves and each other and each other and that's sad yeah yeah so 421 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:46,840 number one what is repentance not so so important it's not a punishment not a penalty but repentance 422 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:54,640 is what relieves the guilt and pain and suffering caused by sin exactly yeah so again let's ask 423 00:46:54,640 --> 00:47:00,160 ourselves the question what's the difference between suffering for our sins and suffering 424 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,200 because of our sins I think that would be a great meditation throughout this week for 425 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,880 us to consider that what's the difference between suffering for your sins and suffering 426 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,960 because of your sins Dave there's two others that we and Scott just we read that I want 427 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,880 to remind our readers we just read in doctrine comes section 19 I think verse 20 yeah that 428 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:27,520 the real suffering as the result of our sin the result this the suffering because of our 429 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:36,840 sin is the loss of the Holy Ghost and the spirit of the Lord in our life the loss of 430 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:42,840 the light of Christ in our life I think that's important that they understand that that is 431 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:48,240 most of the suffering is to lose the spirit yeah absolutely all right so we said that 432 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:54,280 there are four things that it is not we've talked about one we have about 10 or 15 it's 433 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,640 left I don't think we're going to get through all four and give them proper and give them 434 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:06,520 the do that they deserve so let's talk next about the second one Dave repentance is not 435 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:12,920 absolutely not a checklist so you're telling me that it's not a bunch of steps we take 436 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:19,680 and hoops we jump through we absolutely should not see it that way now I know in elder Anderson's 437 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:26,920 book we discussed this too you know maybe a checklist is helpful to some people maybe 438 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,960 some people that's their operating system well right they need a check I guess the way I'm 439 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,360 referring to a checklist here is you know I have a checklist in the morning I get up 440 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,240 and I say my prayers and then I shower you know and those kind of things but it's not 441 00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:43,880 part I guess maybe I should say it this way repentance is not part of a checklist well 442 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,880 so many people live their lives off of to-do lists and so to maybe to have a checklist 443 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:55,440 of things that they need to do might be helpful and I've heard I've heard three hours I've 444 00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:02,240 heard five hours I even remember to talk many many years ago in my life this individual 445 00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:07,520 really worked hard to come up with the eight hours of repentance but here was the tragedy 446 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:15,480 in that the tragedy in the checklist and the chat tragedy of trying to put all of repentance 447 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:22,240 listed by a word that begins with R and you have five or seven or eight or however many 448 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:30,240 you can come up with in all of those cases Scott when I've heard a checklist to describe 449 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:39,200 the process of repentance the R that never gets listed the I've never heard this are 450 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:52,360 in any of the great speeches and lectures on repentance is rely rely on your redeemer 451 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:58,560 that that's the essence of repentance yeah and no one ever no one ever uses that as part 452 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:04,880 of their checklist is to rely on their redeemer well that's because one thing does not make 453 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:10,360 a checklist because that's really all we need is just that rely on our savior and redeemer 454 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:19,440 that is repentance so in elder Anderson's list if those who need a list want to work 455 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:29,160 it's so cool how I think it's really beautiful how elder Anderson turned these five hours 456 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:35,440 into a list that's focused on Christ so he says so he says in essence if you need a 457 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:41,920 list okay then this is how you need to kind of see the list of repentance and he and 458 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:48,200 he goes and gives them one recognize that what I have done recognize recognize what 459 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:53,400 I've done is offended Jesus Christ okay so it's centered in Christ our recognition feel 460 00:50:53,400 --> 00:51:01,000 remorse remorse remorse that our actions have offended God and cause Jesus Christ to suffer 461 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:08,480 again focused in Jesus Christ resolve to change my behavior so resolve and realize that my 462 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:16,120 own willpower is not enough and without the help of Christ I am powerless to repent reform 463 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:24,160 okay if you need to reform then you need to appeal to the grace and for the grace of 464 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:31,400 Jesus Christ his mercy and power to help me not repent repeat the past then he says make 465 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:37,480 restitution to those I've hurt and offended especially and more importantly the savior 466 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:44,400 who suffered the pains of all my sins in this way I'm repenting so if we need an hour or 467 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:51,360 you need a list of ours or whatever your list may be all of those must be centered in and 468 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:59,160 focused on Jesus Christ in his atonement so repentance is not a checklist I think it's 469 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:06,840 really important that we see repentance as a process and more of a condition than it 470 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:14,240 is an action I know there's actions involved in repentance but it primarily is a condition 471 00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:20,160 of that we call a broken heart and contrite spirit in fact in the Book of Mormon it talks 472 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:28,400 five times about meeting the conditions of repentance not fulfilling the steps of repentance 473 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,960 and it's the conditions of repentance that we should focus on not so much the steps of 474 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,840 repentance at least I think that's how the Lord teaches it and the conditions of repentance 475 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:49,400 are primarily a broken heart and contrite spirit Paul describes it as being godly sorrow 476 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:57,080 godly sorrow not worldly sorrow when we when we have those conditions of repentance and 477 00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:04,160 we meet the conditions of repentance the steps of repentance just seem to take care of themselves 478 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:10,560 well I I do know this that as I've lived through my life and and I have a bit of a checkered 479 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:16,680 past all by my own choice and you know obviously influenced by some of the conditions in my 480 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:23,000 life maybe perhaps as well but I do know that as I've gone through and as I have been taught 481 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:29,600 and and chose to understand some of the things and I do take responsibility for my interpretation 482 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:35,920 of what I was taught and chose sometimes to interpret repentance as that checklist I 483 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,360 know that there were things on those did you say five hours I thought I remembered them 484 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:46,360 being seven but whatever the case may be that I would look through those things and I would 485 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:52,360 feel like I'm not doing so well on that one but I've got the other ones covered and so 486 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:57,640 you know maybe that's good enough and there's a big danger you know there is big danger 487 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:05,800 in looking at our our our repentance process as simply a checklist you know we what happened 488 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,920 for me and what I realized David it's not the process and it's not the churches and 489 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:17,080 it's not the teachers fault for my interpretation of this but I know I'm not alone because learning 490 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:22,880 and thinking about repentance I and I'm going to strike that not learning but my interpretation 491 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:30,200 of what I was taught thinking about repentance as a checklist it really actually delayed 492 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:38,880 my true repentance yeah in a law in a in a big way well for sure I as a as a new missionary 493 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:48,720 Scott trying to repent of my sins I just felt that I could not beat myself up enough right 494 00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:58,640 or be punished enough in order to be forgiven or to feel like I was worthy and I kept confessing 495 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:05,160 over and over and over again I kept writing letters home to my stake president which 496 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:10,880 he never responded to for the first six months of my mission he in fact I'll never forget 497 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,520 the letter I finally got from him I kept I kept writing home saying I don't feel really 498 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,920 to be here president I don't feel really to be here maybe I should come home and I was 499 00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:23,360 working out you know as hard as I could and being obedient as I could and finally I get 500 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:30,200 this letter back from my dear sweet stake president who I who I still love and who I 501 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:38,640 think actually gave me my patriarchal blessing yeah maybe this is initials SR yeah and anyway 502 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,840 he finally wrote me and he said oh David I'm so sorry I found your letter at the bottom 503 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:50,120 of pile of papers on my desk and you are worthy to be there in the view if you were honest 504 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,640 with me you're absolutely and anyway so I that's the kind of that's kind of what I was 505 00:55:54,640 --> 00:56:01,040 experiencing the first almost year of my mission yeah until finally after I think like the 506 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:07,080 fifth reading of the Book of Mormon I I finally got it I discovered what I was missing in 507 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:15,000 Enos amulet it was it was all through the Book of Mormon about what repentance is instead 508 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:22,160 of me being so focused on what repentance is not that I finally had an experience where 509 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:32,280 I knew I came to know in the in the early we morning hours after midnight in a little 510 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:40,240 boarding home in Pacific Grove California I knew that I had repented of my sins and 511 00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:47,600 that my efforts and especially the feelings and conditions of my heart were right and 512 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:54,720 he he had accepted and that I was that I was forgiven that I I would never be perfect or 513 00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:02,880 sinless but I was worthy enough and it totally changed the projection of my of my mission 514 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:08,760 and your life really and my life yeah yeah that's why this subject I think is so important 515 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:15,920 for me because I suffered over a year really if you take pre-mission to when I had that 516 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:29,440 experience I I suffered a lot trying to pay for my sins not realizing or accepting or 517 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:37,760 accessing the power of Christ his payment and his suffering for my sins well as we've 518 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:44,320 talked about calling upon the name of Jesus as we've talked about what that begins to 519 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:52,600 look like and motivates us and moves us into a more fulfilling a more complete coming unto 520 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:59,600 him as we've talked about and begin as we move into this repentance process we've talked 521 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:06,520 about two really important concepts of what repentance is not we have more to go and we're 522 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:11,880 going to cover those in upcoming podcasts obviously our next one we'll move into steps 523 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:18,360 erics not steps but number three and four of what repentance is not I'll give you a 524 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:23,760 little preview we're going to talk about how it is not changing be just changing behavior 525 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,880 and turning towards a savior and we're going to talk about how repentance alone repentance 526 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:34,160 alone does not redeem us and so we'll get into those things in next week and in following 527 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:41,400 weeks and so one other thing Scott is that we have to understand that repentance is not 528 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:50,680 an institutional activity there you go yeah repentance is through the Lord Jesus Christ 529 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:57,960 and him alone and the role of the church is to help members to understand that and help 530 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:07,760 them to activate the atonement and power of Jesus Christ in their lives it is not an institutional 531 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:16,240 activity through the church I read one of the brother and had saved all these stories 532 00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:21,840 about I mean it was the thickest loosely if you can think of hundreds of stories about 533 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:29,400 repentance and I went through and research those for a project and read all of those 534 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:38,520 and pulled out the few I mean there were there were several but in relative comparison 535 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:44,760 to all of these hundreds of stories that had been preserved over the years it was really 536 00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:51,880 surprising and a little saddening how many had really focused their repentance in and 537 00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:58,640 through Jesus Christ and his atonement so many so many talked about how they had received 538 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:03,120 forgiveness from the church and through the church and how how great they felt when they 539 01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:07,040 confessed their sins to their bishop and and I'm not saying that's not important I'm not 540 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:12,960 saying that's not part of the process I'm just saying that repentance is not just an 541 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:21,480 institutional activity through the church it is almost completely absolutely it has to 542 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:27,560 be centered in and focused on Jesus Christ and his atonement and that's the role of the 543 01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:33,080 church is to help individuals to learn that and to do that and to bring us unto him through 544 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:39,040 it and I think that that's sometimes often misunderstood we'll get more into that too 545 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:44,800 as we conclude or complete this discussion around repentance what's obviously is going 546 01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,360 to take more than a couple of podcasts to do this is super important stuff that we're 547 01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:56,040 talking about here because one of the things that makes is so important David is it's so 548 01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:03,320 easily misunderstood I know I have you know you talk about my my story if it were at that 549 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,280 time in that book that you just referenced I probably wouldn't have been one of those 550 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:13,000 that you would pull out as an example because that's my thinking that's my way and I know 551 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:18,120 that many of our listeners are in the same process have the same thought process and 552 01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:23,800 we're trying to reconcile what repentance really is and I know for me sometimes when 553 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:30,360 I look at these even when I teach these now in our Institute class that oftentimes I'll 554 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:37,720 look at these and I will even feel a tinge of I don't know guilt or like I'm not quite 555 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:42,240 there's there's got to be more to it and then I have to bring myself back to center through 556 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:46,760 a reminder a spiritual reminder typically sometimes that comes through my wife sometimes 557 01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:52,640 that comes through a thought or a feeling or in a prayer but I have to remind myself 558 01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:57,040 that these things are true that these things are actually accurate that what I have been 559 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:02,800 conditioned or chose to condition myself to in the past is inaccurate and furthermore 560 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:09,160 more importantly dangerous dangerous to my progression along the path of calling upon 561 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:17,760 his name there's unfortunately a lot of false traditions about what repentance is and what 562 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:23,280 it looks like and what it's not and president Elton described a little bit this that it 563 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:31,360 literally means right meto neho it means a metamorphosis it means a change and not just 564 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:36,600 change of behavior which we'll talk about atheists can change their behavior but repentance 565 01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:42,840 is a change of heart a change of mind a change of life a newness of life that that's what 566 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:49,960 repentance is but but unfortunately when the Bible was translated the word met neho was 567 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:57,200 changed in the Latin to poneteer poneteer I'm not sure if I'm by the way pronouncing 568 01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:03,760 those right I think it's perfect but but the Latin word they used in the early Latin 569 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:10,920 Vulgate of the Bible literally meant to be punished repentance meant punishment yeah and 570 01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:17,920 that's why Catholic inquisitions that's why there were other means where the Catholic 571 01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:25,280 church felt it was their role to punish sinners was because that's literally the word that 572 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:32,040 they had mistranslated it to mean right well that that was a false tradition that is in 573 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:39,480 some I guess religious traditions continues and unfortunately may maybe sometimes in our 574 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:46,600 own church right individuals or even some priesthood leaders have made that mistake sometimes 575 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:53,320 innocently to think that that it's our role to punish ourselves or to punish others in 576 01:03:53,320 --> 01:04:05,280 the church for their sins that that is a gross miscalculation and understanding of what the 577 01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:13,400 atonement of Jesus Christ is and who and what it covers I'm so glad to know that it's just 578 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:20,920 so hard the other way it's an impossibility for most humans to really turn to the Savior 579 01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:25,840 looking at things the way that I at least used to look at them and I'm grateful it's 580 01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:31,640 it's it's what's the word you used it's so hard yeah well it's not only hard it's it's 581 01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:39,320 damning yeah it is damning it's damning it stops our ability and progress to really repent 582 01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:45,680 and to rely upon Jesus Christ and when that happens where we are unable incapable of having 583 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:51,000 the spirit in its fullness in our lives which is the administrator of the atonement of Jesus 584 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:56,920 Christ which does heal and comfort and provide miracle to so much in our lives that's out 585 01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:07,600 of skew that this is the catalyst or the beginning or the the the kind of the center the hub 586 01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:15,680 if you will of where we begin to fully call upon him to fully take upon us his name to 587 01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:22,880 allow his spirit to be working and constant in our lives so that we can put on the atonement 588 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:29,120 of Jesus Christ which will affect every other aspect of our life wow what a great time it's 589 01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:34,120 been to be with you again Dave I learned so much but above all I'm so grateful for the 590 01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:39,720 spirit that attends us as we are here talking about these sacred things as we're here talking 591 01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:46,600 about a sacred solution to eternal life that invites us envelops us and in through our heavenly 592 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:52,640 Father's spirit and ultimately and most importantly through the power of our Lord and Savior Jesus 593 01:05:52,640 --> 01:06:00,080 Christ as was enacted through his atonement allows us to become joint heirs and to allow 594 01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:06,240 allows us to have peace in this life and eternal life in the life to come thanks for being 595 01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:11,400 with us it's been another great time to be together we look forward to many more of these 596 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:16,600 in the again in the future until then though may God bless you may you fill his love and 597 01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,800 constant companionship of the spirit of the Holy Ghost as you put on the atonement of 598 01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,320 Jesus Christ in your own lives thanks for being here.