Well, hello everybody and welcome to Redeem Through His Blood.
In this podcast we discuss hope healing and redemption through the atonement of Jesus
Christ.
I'm Scott Durfee and I want to introduce my partner in this project, our teacher, brother
David Durfee.
Good morning everybody.
So again, we want to just be mindful and thankful, let you know how thankful we are
for the emails and the questions that we're getting.
We appreciate the suggestions.
More than anything, we appreciate the questions that are coming and we have and will continue
to address many of these questions throughout our podcast.
We actually, Dave, received an email early on in our endeavor here from a great young
man who we have the opportunity of being with today.
We'll introduce Nate in just a few minutes, but look forward to having him here with us
today.
Before we get to that though, I just want to make sure that we encourage more questions.
We encourage your comments.
Please send any and all that you may have to this email.
It is, heredeemsusatgmail.com.
He redeemsusatgmail.com.
So this week we are going to take a bit of a break in the action and we're going to
to, as we've been talking about the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we're going
to move into the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and we're going to see that
alive and well in a young man who has struggled and fought his way through life to a point
where he's enjoying the full benefits of covenant keeping, of the spirit in his life and all
because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
So we're going to get into that here in just a second to do that.
I'm going to have Dave go ahead and introduce Nate.
Nate Moller will be our guest today.
So I'm going to go ahead and turn the time to Dave.
Let him take it from there for just a few minutes.
Well, Nathan and I met in an institute class.
Nathan, how long has that been?
I was thinking about that just yesterday.
I think it's been about 12 years.
12 years ago.
It was 10 minutes.
Yeah, it was pretty early when I had just, I think it'd only been a year or two that
I had designed the course on repentance and forgiveness.
And you saw the course on a class offering of Utah Valley University Institute of Religion
and came into the class, we met, I don't know, there was a feeling, I know on my part, towards
you immediately.
And we developed this relationship.
I think you actually took the course how many times?
It was so fun that you took it multiple times, two or three?
I don't remember.
I just know that that first time I took Institute, I walked into one class and I just didn't,
I just wasn't feeling it.
And then I went to another class and it was yours.
And then I just followed you around and took all your classes.
I don't, I don't know, but that was, that was a, some of your classes were repeats.
And I was old enough at that point that I don't even think I was allowed to be an institute,
but you let me keep coming.
So well, it was a lot.
So anyway, you took, you took some courses and, and I remember you, I still remember,
I have a vision of, of you sitting in the class absorbing all this.
And after a class or two, you, you kind of helped me teach some of these principles,
Nathan, to other students that were in the class, I remember.
You were, you were more than willing.
How, let's see, how, how old were you when you took that course?
Um, probably, well, 27, 28, 29 in there.
Yeah.
You were a little older than the other Utah Valley students, I remember.
And your experiences, I recall, were in a great blessing, extreme blessing to those who
were in the class and I just, I kind of saw you as help kind of being helping me to co-teach
that class.
You had to have those experiences.
You had related to it.
You had applied the principles the first time that you took the course.
And, and anyway, I, I had, you were, you were awesome the first time you took the course.
Your, your life was already well, pretty well established and you were well on your way to
a full conversion.
But I think there were things that happened in the class that helped to strengthen that,
wasn't there?
Yeah, I had, I had a lot of questions still during that class.
It was, I think the first time I took it, we were only a year out from going to the temple
the first time my wife and I.
And I still had a lot of questions about, you know, the repentance process that I had
gone through.
Like I was, I had been in a disciplinary council and all of those things.
And so like I had a lot of questions still about how it worked and if I really was worthy
to be where I was, and that class just helped connect a lot of dots and helped me to understand
things a lot more thoroughly.
I think that ultimately was a lot of what I was looking for was why I went to Institute
in the first place just because I, I had, you know, the information I had the gospel,
but I just didn't have enough understanding to go along with it.
So it definitely helped for sure.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, and we've had a sweet relationship and friendship ever, ever since the Nate,
why don't you just kind of help us to introduce you by telling us about your situation.
You're married with six children.
This is your second marriage, right?
Yep.
This is my second marriage to my two oldest kids are from my first marriage.
Okay.
Tell us, just tell us a little bit about your family.
Let's see.
My wife and I, we've been married.
We just celebrated 13 years, which isn't a lot, but it feels like a lot.
I've known her since I was nine and she was two.
That's a whole, that's a whole story in and of itself.
My oldest daughter will be, well, she's 19, she'll be 20 in November.
And then we have a 17 year old, a 14 year old, 12 year old, 10 year old and an eight
year old.
My wife and I are both teachers.
I don't know, we just, we love it.
We live in Spanish fork and that's in Utah and we just, I don't know, we just, we just
love it.
Our family and our life, it's just awesome.
So how, how long did your first marriage last, Nathan?
Uh, let's see.
About it lasted five years, four years.
I mean, we got separated after four years, I think it was.
And then our divorce wasn't final until two years after that.
So on paper it was six years, but.
Well, I, I know that, uh, we've talked a little bit about that in the past.
I remember and some of the lessons that you learned from that and maybe just a little
bit so our listeners can understand and appreciate this part of your life, Nathan, is that your
extended family is, I know, really important to you.
And just tell us a little bit about your, your parents and the situation there that has had
such a tremendous, uh, impact on your life.
Um, well, I think first off, like my parents, my, my birth parents, my mom, my dad, when
they got married, like my, my mom was 16 when I was born.
Um, and my dad was 18, 19.
So my parents were really young.
Um, and they did the best that they could, but they're, they got divorced when I was
in third grade and then my mom got remarried and then divorced again and then remarried
one last time.
Um, so my dad was always kind of there.
Um, but he worked a lot and was single for most of those teenage years for me.
When my mom married my, my latest and, and last, well, she's married again, but, um,
when she married, his name's Corey, when she married Corey, I was 12 and she was married
to him until I was 30.
And then he, uh, he died.
Um, he was killed.
Um, but that was, it was honestly, it was rough because him and I actually didn't get along
until after he died.
Now I feel like I'm closer to him now more than I ever was during in life.
So he was my dad, but I didn't realize how much of a dad he was to me until, um, until
he died.
But we're going to, we're going to talk about that too.
We're going to have you at not at this point, but at a point, we're going to have you talk
about that experience with your dad, Corey and the situation there.
But, um, you know, there, there's been just an awful lot so far that you've talked about,
you know, your family, everything seems like it was pretty standard, Nate.
Um, you know, except for a few divorces, I mean, you know, but that's not all that uncommon
in today's world, right?
My kids have gone through those experiences and you've gone through those experiences
as a kid.
Dave's had the experience from being able to counsel with and see a lot of this because
his leadership positions and so forth in the church, uh, which gives him a great perspective
on that front.
But you know, from a third grade kid, how old are you in third grade?
Eight, nine, somewhere in that neighborhood to have parents going through what they must
have been going through that had to create some kind of, uh, feelings of confusion, maybe
fear, maybe, I don't know.
How would you describe that at that time?
Well, so back then, um, I mean, everything seemed normal.
I mean, I remember thinking I knew that there were problems, but I didn't really know what
they were.
Um, but you start to get this sense of like, okay, it's mom versus dad.
I have to like mom over dad or I have to like dad over mom.
I don't know if my parents, I mean, I don't think they would intentionally play us against
each other or play us against one another, um, but that's what it was like.
And I was the oldest.
I'm still the oldest and I had two younger siblings and so my parents, you know, though
it seemed normal, my parents were always at work.
So I was often alone taking care of my siblings.
Um, like I said, they did the best that they could, but it was rough.
Like I, I don't know, I just kind of had the sense that I was like another parent, like
I was just a babysitter.
So, um, my parents wouldn't get home till late.
They would be in bed early in the morning or go to work early in the morning and I'd
get my siblings up and send them to school.
Um, and most of the time that's, at least that's how I remembered it.
So I remember being home in the summertime, you know, with my siblings, like we'd leave
my little brother home or my little brother would go to a sitter and my middle brother,
he's just a few years younger than I, we would walk to the Provo pool and just, we'd just
be there all day long.
Yeah.
Um, that's just where we lived.
Um, we didn't, you know, I'm sure to a lot of people, it just looked like we didn't,
we didn't have parents, but it was, it was hard, but it led to a lot of frustration.
It led to a lot of, uh, anger for me.
I used to take it out on my siblings.
Yeah.
Tell me, tell me about the frustration.
Talk to me about the frustration and the anger, maybe.
Um, and, and how that carried into not just so at eight and nine, I mean, you're getting
some of this going on.
Things couldn't have been perfect prior to that or mom and dad wouldn't have got a divorce
in the first place.
And there may have been some, some confusion that you weren't even able to articulate at
that young age, perhaps, but as things progressed for you and your life and you moved from,
you know, pre-adolescent to adolescent to your preteens to your teenage years, even
into high school and your early adulthood, kind of just give us an overview of what it
was like for you.
Uh, and emphasize those things that, um, really led to your wandering away from anything
that was, uh, like the atonement of Jesus Christ, for example.
Well, my parents were part of the church before they divorced.
I remember getting baptized.
Um, and so up until that point, I was part of the church after my parents divorced.
Um, my mom was remarried.
So let me, let me, let me pause you right there.
When you say I was part of the church at eight, what did that, what does that look like by
record only?
Or were you participating and going to primary and Sunday school and activities and all those
things?
So what was that like?
Yeah, I, I remember, I remember going.
I remember being there.
I remember, um, young, well, I would say young men, young women leaders, but that was what
they were yet, right?
They were primary leaders, um, bringing me, I still have a, I have a book that one of
my primary leaders wrote in when I got baptized.
So like I, there was enough of participation that they were trying, but now that I'm, you
know, in the church, you know, strongly now, maybe, maybe we were less active.
I don't know because I remember getting extra attention from them, which usually means they're
trying to get us to come back.
So I don't remember for sure.
Right.
But you did, you did grow up having some familiarity with the workings, with even the, the culture
and even the spirit around all of it.
It sounds like, yeah.
So it sounds like that you weren't just left wander, just left to wander spiritually, even
at that young age, there was some direction, obviously, probably very confusing because
it was a meeting against a home front that was incongruent with all of that.
And so what was happening inside of you when this was all going on?
Um, so after they got divorced, it was just more of like, well, we don't go to church
anymore.
That was just kind of the expectation.
I had friends that went and so I would go and hang out.
I remember being in scouts, but it wasn't, we didn't go to church.
My dad didn't go to church.
So that wasn't pushed.
So at the time of the divorce, my time without the church kind of began, um, because we,
we weren't a part of it.
Right.
Um, but I will say one of my earliest memories is actually being in primary and I remember
I was a sunbeam and I remember singing, I am a child of a God.
And I didn't really understand the impact of that, but having that song in my mind throughout
my those years and even knowing at some point somewhere I am a child of God, that was a
big, um, it focused me a lot.
It helped me to at least have some kind of semblance of something like I didn't, I didn't
understand it until later, but, um, that helped a ton.
But my whole teenage years, we didn't have any of that.
My mom, the guy she married, um, he, he drank a lot and for, and I know I'm not, I don't
want to like my mom did her best.
Like I said, I'm not trying to bad mouth her or anything, but in that, in that marriage,
I mean it was two years, roughly, you know, we would, my brothers and I would get beat
by him.
My, you know, my mom was getting abused by him as well.
And that's really where my anger and start and everything really started was, I mean,
I had siblings always following me around, but then after I was getting beat, um, that
would turn up a me showing anger and frustration at school and even more so to my brothers
and my neighborhood, um, things like that.
I was, I was a rough kid, um, those early years in school, fourth, fifth, sixth grade.
Um, I remember I, I taped a needle, like a sewing needle to my teacher's chair, um,
which to me as a teacher now it's like, oh, that's a scream for hell.
You know?
And I was, I was, I was screaming for help, but I didn't know it and I don't know if
anybody else knew it.
I was rough.
I was a rough kid because of that.
So as you were experiencing all of this and so far we're still in elementary school, it
sounds like, is your experience all of this?
And you move into your adolescent years, you know, and we go through changes in our body.
We go through changes in our association with other people, et cetera.
How were these things beginning to, and when I say these things, what I'm referring to
specifically is how did the dark things in your life, how were they becoming more and
more prevalent?
Why were they becoming more and more prevalent?
Were you at some point beginning to find ways to kind of cope with the feelings that you
were having?
And if so, what were the ways that you were doing that?
How were you coping with the confusion, the anger, the fear, the, the absolute, to be
abused and to be watching your mom or knowing that your mom's being abused, that's just
something nobody should ever have to go through.
But you nonetheless did.
And so how was that?
I mean, what were some of the ways that your frustration, your anxiety, all of the other
adjectives that I could use and none of them would be adequate, I get it.
But how were all of those things beginning to manifest themselves?
Really, I, I didn't know how, I just acted out.
I got in fights at school, I would steal things, I would, I mean, that went all the
way up until I was a young adult.
I mean, you know, meaning in my 20s, I had no idea, you know, what I was doing.
I just did things.
I had people around that were not good kids.
Like I remember in elementary school, I had a kid pull a gun on me in elementary school.
In elementary school?
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Because I was really mean to one of his friends.
So he brought a gun to school and put a gun to my head and said that if I wasn't nice
to his friend, he'd kill me.
I don't know if my mom knows that, but that happened just in Provo.
I just, I mean, it just shows.
Like I just, I just acted.
I just did whatever I wanted.
Right.
And I was like, to heck with what anybody thought or felt, I just, I just was what I
was.
And that was, that was a problem.
I was lightning without a rod, I guess, if you say like, I just, I wasn't focused.
I just did whatever I wanted.
Yeah.
I liked that analogy.
You were, you were how old when you got married, Nate?
We got married.
I was, I was 20 or 19.
Okay.
So almost 20.
Okay.
Married, married for a few years.
What was kind of the depth of darkness that you experienced in those years?
The depth of your darkness.
Where, how far?
Well, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is probably before my marriage, right
around that, you know, mission age time, you know, I, because when my mom married Corey,
I got to go back to church a little bit.
And so when I got to that mission age, there was always, there was a question.
I remember a bitch asking, are you going to go on a mission?
I think the depths of everything really started when I made the choice of, do I want to go
on a mission or do I want this girlfriend I have?
And for fear that she, well, I knew she wouldn't wait for me.
And I guess for my lack of understanding, I chose her instead of a mission.
That being said, I'm so glad I have my children and I wouldn't, I wouldn't give them up now.
But I chose, you know, my children basically, I chose my girlfriend over a mission.
And then we got married.
So that really, I think probably started a lot of things.
I tried, you know, I remember when we got married, we tried to go to church and it just
didn't work.
And so after about a year and a half, we stopped going.
And then from there, that's where it really fell apart.
I had drank alcohol and done a few drugs here and there throughout my teenage years.
And I didn't the first year and a half, but after the first year and a half of my marriage,
I just didn't, it just fell apart from there.
I became, I wasn't an alcoholic yet, I don't think, but I drank a lot recreationally for
fun, I guess.
She started doing that too.
And we just, you know, our marriage really just didn't have a focus.
We were just married.
And I guess maybe at that point the focus was we're married for our kids.
Like there wasn't anything else to it.
So your life, your life at that point really started to unravel and maybe even things in
your past and maybe hers as well began to kind of be exposed.
And so what was kind of your rock bottom and what got your attention to start coming back?
Well, my rock bottom didn't really happen until we were separated.
So I think that started me on the path to take me to rock bottom.
So when we were separated, you know, she left and we had bought a house and we were selling
it and the kids were at my house.
I mean, like she didn't have anywhere to go yet.
So she would come and sleep on the couch of that house and I would sleep upstairs until
we sold it.
And it was in the best we could before we had, but it was dysfunctional to say the
least and it made it hard.
So I just, that's when I really started drinking.
I remember spending, I was spending, spending probably $600 to $700 a month at least on alcohol
just for myself.
So just to be clear, Nate, at this point you have two children?
I have two.
They were both little.
Let's see how old.
Um, five and five and two, three under five.
Got it.
Yeah.
Um, so we sold the house.
I moved into an apartment and I just, I just drank and, and partied and I put the kids
to bed and then after the kids went to bed, I'd do whatever at nighttime.
So you know, almost two years of that, I came to a point where it was like, okay, I don't
like the way that my life is going.
I don't, I don't like, there were, there were two guys that were living in the same
areas, who were kind of in the same boat.
They were both, you know, drinking, partying, those kinds of things.
The one guy was really, really not doing well.
He was, you know, pretty dark and that kind of took my thoughts to some darker places.
Um, and right around that time I started to have these suicidal thoughts and tendencies
come around like, look, I'm not doing anything for anybody.
Like, what's the point?
What am I, what am I really doing here?
Um, I've, you know, basically I come to the realization that I had failed.
Like my life had failed the way that I was living wasn't a way to live.
So what's the point?
Why should I keep going?
And when I decided that I, you know what, I'm done.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna kill myself.
There's no reason to keep going.
That was really probably about the, as rock bottom as it got, well, as I was driving out
to my parents' house to go and get a gun that I knew my dad left in a, in a cupboard in the
garage.
So Nate, let me, that was probably about my arc bottom.
Let me have you.
I'll just go back as there's a couple of things that I want to emphasize about what you're
talking about.
I want to get to where you're headed with, you know, your rock bottom story, but prior
to that, were there, were there inklings?
Did you ever have ideologies prior to this date of perhaps ending your own life?
Was it a fleeting thought from time to time?
Was it something that you had seriously contemplated?
You just mentioned that you were going over to your dad's and there was a gun there and,
and we can all imagine where we're going with this, but to have these thoughts come to your
mind before or was this first time ever?
No, um, I, I had thought that from time to time when I was younger as well.
I mean, there were a lot of really hard times growing up.
So you were no stranger to despair at any point so far in your story here.
Ever had been throughout your life, it sounds like.
Well, I was, I was an angry, angry person.
Yeah.
Um, I, I mean, I was known for getting into fights at school.
So that's, that was my reputation.
Um, my dad, my, my stepdad, my dad was a cop.
So as you can imagine, those two things didn't go together very well.
Um, I was also larger than he was and had a, you know, inflammatory, you know, you know,
temporary, uh, temperament most of the time.
Um, so I spent a lot of time alone.
We also lived in the middle of nowhere.
We lived out in the farming community out west of Spanish Fork.
So nobody was coming to get me.
So I was on the farm alone a lot.
Um, I remember sleeping in cars when my parents were mad at me and things like that.
So like it was, yeah, I had, I was alone a lot.
And so because of that, I thought those things a lot.
Like, you know, what's the point?
I don't, nobody cares about me.
Um, so you're at your dad's, you pull up to your mom and dads and continue with that
part.
Yeah.
So I, I actually didn't quite get to my parents' house.
Um, I lived, I lived, um, I don't know, probably five, six miles away from where their house
was out, um, in the farm country.
And I got probably two thirds of the way there and I had this thought of like, wait,
if anything, I do have a reason to live and then it was about that moment that my kids'
images flashed in my mind and I knew I needed to hold on for at least them.
So I slowed my car down, turned around and drove back home.
And that was probably the moment where, you know, my parabola of being at the very bottom
started to come back up just, just a little bit because I decided to turn around.
So what do you think was the source of, of that thought?
As you look back on that, uh, now, Nathan, what, what was kind of the source of that?
Do you think?
Well, I know what the source was, but at that time it was just a, I've got to live for my
kids' moment, but as, as, you know, as I go along with this, I know the best way that
I can explain it is, you know, the savior reached into my soul and calm those stormy
seas.
He calmed the water.
He stopped it.
I don't know how else to explain it.
I, it was, I know that I had gone as far as I could go when I couldn't go anymore and
he stopped it.
He saved me.
So he gave me the perspective to continue on and hope for something more.
Nate, so many of our listeners, uh, have experienced or maybe even are experiencing something very
similar, maybe not in terms of the logistical details of what we're talking about here,
but the feelings are not unfamiliar.
The feelings of hopelessness, the feelings of despair, the feelings of I am done.
I just can't keep doing this.
And people want to know they're going to ask, why was Nate blessed?
Why was Nathan blessed so much that he was able to fill Christ's spirit, reach down and
your words, pull him out of what's going on here.
So how would you respond to that?
Why were you blessed in this way?
What choices had you made?
What things in your life kind of precipitated this?
Was there an event or just a series of events?
So what made you, what made this?
What made your heart available and open to the re, to be receptive to the spirit of our
Heavenly Father at that point?
The first thing that comes to mind is, um, throughout those years where I didn't have
the church in my life, um, there was still always part of me because of the foundation
that I didn't know was important.
It had been laid, I think even just from when I was a son beam, having that song, I tell
the God, um, there were moments where I had been, I remember one night I was really being
maybe a more like an Enos moment or I'm being really just or a Nephi moment where I'm, my
past is just wreaking havoc on me.
I don't have gospel in my life, but I just was just feeling so terrible about what I
knew to that point that I was guilty of.
And so I remember sitting in my car and I remember praying probably more fervently than
I ever have.
And I remember looking up and seeing the stars and just a feeling I had was I'm not alone.
So I had a few moments like that throughout those years where even though I was lost or
at least I think I was, I was still searching for something.
Um, so part of me had always, I think, I know part of me always believed, but it just wasn't
something that I had chosen to accept or give place for yet.
So in that moment when I'm driving out to my parents house and my kids images float in
my mind, I tap back into that, into those feelings of hoping for something more, I think
and that sliver of faith, that sliver of hope.
I mean, if you go to what is it?
Um, Alma 27, I'm a 32, 27, 28, that seed had grown enough, I think that the Lord was
like, okay, I can, I can help you now.
That's that's that's what I think.
Okay.
So, so you turned around, you know, you learned in the course that repentance literally means
to turn around.
So that was the beginning of you would say turning around your life.
And where did it go from there, Nathan?
So from there I drove home and I remember, um, my brother, well, he's my brother on the
now, but my friend at that point had had come over and I was trying to explain to him what
had happened and, um, in between, um, driving home and him coming over, I had this realization.
It was like, it was like God knew that I needed to have a carrot mangled before me.
And I mean, you know, being separated, I felt alone.
I felt all this despair.
This image came into my mind of a woman that I have a girl that I was supposed to be with.
And it was my best friend's sister.
And I just had this all encompassing feeling of she's home supposed to be with.
I know it.
I just, I just knew it.
And I then tried to explain that to him and he laughed, essentially laughed me to scorn.
And I had this impression, you know, let's open the scriptures.
And so I ended up going to ether 1227, which was when I wrote you guys that initial email.
Um, and we, well, we read part of ether and how it talks about faith and we got to 1227.
So the faith and then the making weak things become strong.
It was as if what I had known or been shown was then granted for him to be able to see
because he knew in that moment also that it was true.
And then from then, um, I just, I just had an upward trajectory.
The Lord was just guiding me beyond what I can understand.
I had something to hope for.
Even though I didn't know that I was going to get it, I believed it.
And I just kind of, you know, worked toward that.
I started going back to church.
I, you know, started hanging around my parents more.
I stopped hanging around bad friends.
Obviously I didn't drink anymore.
Um, and I just started that path of change because I knew it's like, look, I had tried
to live.
I had tried to do it my way and I failed.
I failed to live the way that I wanted to.
So there had to be something else.
There had to be a better way and the better way.
It wasn't my way.
It was his.
So I've long felt that the way that I live now, I'm on his errand.
I owe everything I am to him.
I failed.
And so now I am living a second life that was granted by him alone.
And so I just, I feel like I have to do the best that I can.
I'm still very flawed, but I try.
So,
Well, what's amazing as you're relating your story, Nathan, what, what I think is amazing
is that you were in a really bad place, but somehow, some way because of a child hearing
or feeling more than hearing the truth about being a child of God, that when the Lord gave
you an experience, you recognized it.
I'm not sure that you really knew the source of it, but, but that you knew that it was
God and that God knew you and that God was concerned about you and you recognize that
and received it.
I think so many times God gives people's experiences, but they felt either recognize the source of
it or felt to completely receive it.
Not only did you receive it by turning around, by going back to your children, but you turned
to the word of the Lord.
That's pretty amazing to me because I don't think you probably had a lot of experience
with the scriptures, but you were led into the, into the scriptures and there is a power
about the word, isn't there?
No, there is, but I would say there's a power about it, but there's an even greater power
about it when you choose it for yourself.
Up to that point, I had the church in my life on and off, but it wasn't something that I
had chosen for myself.
Therefore, I didn't understand what was really happening.
So, when I went to church as a teen on and off, I didn't want to go.
I didn't want to be there.
I didn't see a point.
I was going through the motions, but I never was converted to it.
So I say, you know, I was raised in the church, but I was converted when I was 27 because
I really didn't choose to be a part of it until I was about 27, 26, 27.
So, well, I think there's a difference to Nathan.
Maybe you can describe this of being converted to the church versus being converted to the
gospel of Jesus Christ.
And at that point, your conversion is more to God, to Jesus Christ.
You're beginning to fill the spirit, and your real conversion is in developing a relationship
with God and feeling that they know you and your desire to know them.
Is that right?
How would you put that?
No, I agree.
So, I mean, I think the church is wonderful, but the reality of it is, and this was said
in conference, and maybe you can tell me who said it, but I want to say it was like Ballard
or something, but the church is only created for imperfect people.
If we were perfect, we wouldn't need the church.
We would have an understanding and we would have, you know, the Lord, and we wouldn't
need to worry about it.
The church is amazing, but it's just a tool to help us get back to God.
And the connections that you can make with the Lord, especially which is really cool
with our church is, I mean, you said this in class once, we aren't all prophets, seers
and revelators, but we are all prophets because we can receive revelation.
I've received lots of different revelations for myself.
I seek out understanding and have questions all the time so that I can further my understanding.
And that has to do with my individual relationship with God.
And the more you grow to know Him, the more you become like Him and the closer you get
to Him.
I mean, like it becomes harder and harder and harder to fall.
You also brought up in that, and it was in conference two, the talk, the story about
the two wolves and which wolf wins, the one that you feed.
Well, I mean, the more I, you know, go down this path that I started years ago, the more
that I find myself close to Him.
That doesn't mean that I don't have moments where I feel like I've made an about face
and I'm going the wrong direction.
But ultimately my foundation is Christ.
And because my foundation is Christ, even when I have hard times, I know that I can't
fall because He's always there.
Yeah, that's really powerful, Nathan.
So skip a little bit further ahead from that night that you read, Ether 1227, and you started
to come back and you end up marrying your best friend's sister, who's now your wife.
And I know that story and I think it's so sacred and so sweet that God gave you that
vision and I know it's true and I know both of you know it's true.
And now you have these children and you're a school teacher, you're a football coach,
you're doing all of these things.
But so several years have been under the bridge since you took the course on repentance and
forgiveness.
Just to remind you, we begin that course as we did this podcast.
By the way, before I forget, you have your own podcast trying to help youth, some of
them maybe going through some of the things you went through to try to help adolescents.
Why don't you just, before I forget, say something about your podcast?
Well, ours is called, what do we even call it, Teen Advice Stuff You Really Want to
Hear.
Say it again?
We're doing it, Teen Advice Stuff You Really Want to Hear.
That's the name of the podcast.
We just, yeah, my wife and I do it just trying to take the perspective of teachers and I
mean, you know, my wife's story and her experiences in life, ironically enough, are very similar
to my own and the fact that she was even able to pray and get an answer that she was supposed
to marry me is a testament to the things that she'd been through and learned that God is
there.
Anyway, all of those things and the fact that we teach, we try to help kids get through
this time.
I'll be, we were really diligent with it for a while and then school started and we stopped
and we tried to start it again this summer and then, I mean, we've been so busy.
But I mean, it's still there.
We have about 20 episodes that are on it.
So for those who want to know, it's called Stuff You Really Want to Know, Teen Advice
and it's by, oh boy, I just started playing it.
And it's by, yeah, and it's by Nate and Jess Moller.
Okay.
So, so thank you for that.
I hope, I hope that parents will, will point their teens that direction and they'll be
able to find it.
So going back to our course, you remember back then as we began this podcast was to know
who you are as sons and daughters of God.
That was the beginning of the course on repentance and forgiveness.
And to also know that we are fallen beings, that we are all sinners and to recognize and
celebrate our mortal state.
And then we go from there to through a process of obtaining faith in Christ, repentance,
which is a process.
What kind of stands out to you that strengthened you?
Because you were in a pretty good place when you, when I first met you and you were taking
that course, you were coming back, you were, you were in a pretty good place.
What stood out to you that helped strengthen your resolve to continue in your conversion
to the gospel?
Um, I think the thing that helped me most was honestly, it was, it was pretty simple.
Um, at least, you know, easy thing to remember was just how you always told to endure to
the end, right?
I always just remember even now when things get really hard, just endure, just endure.
And then from there, my mind goes to various things that I've heard.
Like one of the things that I like to draw on is, um, Joseph Smith and knowing that
right before he had the first vision, you know, what happened to him, Satan did everything
he could to stop him from getting into that grove.
And I found that throughout my life, when things get really bad, it usually means that
Satan sees something good coming.
And if you can just hold on just for a little bit, that bad will pass and something good
follows.
Um, so I mean, really just, if you kind of take that for me, if you take that mindset,
I've just found myself growing and growing and growing and faith and testimony.
I mean, some days it feels like, you know, one step forward and two steps back, but I
would say overall, I don't even have to say, I would say, I know that I am better off now
than I was.
And that right there is repentance.
The desire to be on a path and grow and become better.
That really is repentance.
You're showing God that you're repentant through your actions.
Um, and this taken a long time and it's been hard.
And I know it's still going to continue to be, but my life is so blessed just because
I remember those few things and I don't give up hope.
Um, I think the other thing that I remember is the story that I've shared today.
Um, whenever things again get really hard, like I've had moments where Jess and I will
get in an argument and it'll be like, God, why am I, why are we even married?
And I say that, but I say it because it's normal.
Satan wants you to second guess things.
And for people to think, Oh, that's terrible.
You thought you shouldn't be married to your wife.
No, it's normal.
So he was going to do that.
Um, I remember, well, let's see, why are we married?
And then I remember that story again.
And it's like, I know I'm supposed to be with her.
I know it.
And it kind of erases the lies that he tells you.
It dispels those things that he wants to get you to believe so that you get off course
again.
Well, that's, that's, that's the importance of remembering Nathan, right?
I think we've, we've taught that, that President Kimball said the most important word in the
Book of Mormon is remember, but so many don't remember.
It's so easy to forget or to have something of a lapse, you know, of, we, we, we get this
spiritual amnesia sometimes and we forget who we are or we forget the experiences that
we've had, uh, besides just recalling them, what are you doing in your life now to be
continually moving forward on the path, strengthening your faith, continuing in your repentance
and to help yourself to remember these experiences that you've described.
And Nate, before you answer that question, maybe you could do it in light of another
experience that I know that's been difficult probably for you in your life.
You talk about a stepfather, in fact, you've talked about several stepfathers and you talked
about the blessing of your most recent, well, a stepfather, Corey, uh, who, um, went through
a pretty difficult situation or because of something that happened to him also created
difficult situation in your family.
Uh, that had to be hard for you as well.
Maybe you could describe that and then answer Dave's question around that, but apply it
not just to everything else in your life, but that experience specifically.
Maybe you could kind of tell us what happened there briefly and how you've been able to
through the Atonement of Jesus Christ make it through that experience.
Um, well, his, the story with him, um, he was, he was a Utah County Sheriff's deputy,
um, for long time.
It was what, eight months shy of 20 years, um, he's working out, Neagle Mountain.
Uh, he was a desk sergeant basically, and he was leaving his office in Neagle Mountain
one day to drive out to where my family lived to pick up my little brother, um, to take him
to lunch.
And it was January 30th, 2014.
Super crappy day.
Really snowy, crappy day.
Um, and as he's leaving and he gets on to, um, SR 70 out there, that's the main road
that used to go from out like Cedar Fort, Eagle Mountain into Lehigh.
Um, he saw a truck parked off to the side of the road.
He drove past the truck and realized, you know, I'm, I, we, we, we don't know necessarily
what he thought because we don't have any audio or video to know, but I would customize.
I thought about this a lot, but you see him and I've seen the dash cam video.
He does drive past the truck, stops, turns around, comes back behind the truck and then,
um, calls into dispatch and says that he's got a motorist assist with police.
A motorist assist is like the most low key of calls.
It's I'm helping somebody change a tire or they're stuck in the mud or something like
that.
Um, not something that dispatch really worries about.
Um, and for 18 minutes, he goes back and forth between that car and his car and tries to
find out, okay, why are they on the side of the road?
Why are there hazards on what can I do to remedy their situation?
Um, he finds that there's a 17 year old female driving an adult Hispanic male in the past
year, see, um, he finds that the truck belongs to her grandparents.
She gives him, you know, her information.
He gave, he gets information from the mail.
Um, and it turns out that that information is faulty.
So for really the 18 minutes, he goes back and forth between the two cars.
He's trying to find out who this male is.
He won't tell him how he is.
Um, after, you know, after about 18 minutes, the truck has a sliding back window on it
and did, uh, they, he shoots seven shots in the front of my dad's police car.
The first two bullets hit him.
Um, first one hits him up in the temple area on the side of his head and the second one
hits him in the jugular on the opposite side of his head and he is incapacitated on the
side of the road and they speed off and it turns into a county wide man hunt, trying
to find somebody who had shot this deputy and later shot another deputy, which was a
red sheer wood.
He was shot in the head in, in the Santa Quinn and then they sped on and got into a shoot
out and then that man died that day and the 17 year old is in prison for, um, you know,
aggravated murder, basically.
Um, that happened.
It goes back to that Joseph Smith analogy I mentioned earlier that happened about a week
after I had taken over the classroom in my student teaching assignment at Pleasant Grove
High School.
Um, in that moment it was like, holy crap, the world does not want me to be a teacher
and I already had doubts that I could do it.
I remember that first night when we were told that he was shot and killed, feeling anger
that first day at the hospital in Orm.
That's where our family was.
That's where the, the sheriff came and talked to us.
And then after that it was kind of like that initial experience that I explained when the
savior called my sees, it's like he did the same thing.
He took that angst, that frustration, that anger and he removed it and the outpouring
of community love and, um, help and acceptance and willing to suffer collectively replaced
that anger and that frustration.
It really started the healing process for us and it was interesting.
A lot of the times I remember going to things.
I remember being at his viewing.
I remember going to events that our family was invited to be at, consoling other people,
hugging people as they cried into my shoulder.
Um, it was rough, but it was very, very unique and very, a very sweet experience just because
I know at the end of the day, I think the thing that really gives us peace is I believe
that before we come to this earth, we're told what's going to happen.
I believe that we come knowing who we're going to be and what's going to happen.
And I know that Corey knew that that was going to happen to him that day, whether he realized
it in this life or not, but he knew and he chose to allow it.
So I know that he would have rather gone through that than make another family go through it,
which means that my family was positioned to have to go through such an experience.
And still to this day, it's hard.
I mean, I've mentioned not today, but I've realized this in my past.
Like when things happen like that, you don't, they don't go away.
They don't.
You really just learn to deal with it.
You learn to live with it.
You learn to either make it a positive or a negative.
And there are so many people that take things like that and let them become a negative and
it harbors on them.
What causes them to become these spiteful mean people because they just don't know how
to cope with it.
And in reality, we can't cope with it on our own.
We have to have a mediator.
And that's what the savior can do is he can allow you to get rid of all that negative
feeling and angst and everything else.
And now I'm able to take that story and among others and I use them in my classroom.
One of the coolest experiences I think and one of the things that helped me to become
the teacher I am is when I went back to finish teaching, first off, I would say I was teaching
with two teachers at Pleasant Grove High School, both of which had lost their fathers.
So both of which had a unique and they lost their fathers in unexpected ways.
So they both had a unique ability to understand me.
So their approach to me changed.
And then I remember first day taking over the class and it was just a ghost town.
The kids didn't know what to say.
They didn't know how to react.
It was so in everybody's face.
Everybody knew.
And so, you know what?
I pulled up a picture of my dad.
I explained the whole situation in explicit detail and I learned in that moment my testimony
changed because now I know that sharing my story, I don't have faith in anyone.
I know that sharing my story changes lives and can help people because I experienced
it firsthand in front of strangers.
My dad is still amazing.
I've grown to know him now more than ever.
I see him in dreams constantly.
He's always there.
My brother has had really personal experiences with him.
He's still around.
He still helps us.
I still get to feel him when I'm in situations that are hard.
I have an image of him come to my mind and he'll say, I'm here.
So it was a rough experience but it has straightened my testimony and the atonement and the plan
of salvation and of this gospel in ways that I just couldn't have had any other way.
It really almost to me seems like he was meant to do that so that I could be who I am because
without him going through what he went through, I would not be who I am today.
That's humbling to think that God planned for somebody to die, not just my savior but
somebody else to die so that I could become who I am.
It's crazy to think about but he knows what he's doing.
So Nathan, thank you for sharing that.
God has taken your experiences and through the atonement of Jesus Christ and his redemption
has consecrated those experiences for your gain and through you he has consecrated that
experience for others gain as he promised that he would in the scriptures.
But Nathan, that's not true for probably every member of your family.
I don't know.
So why has he, why you, why have, why has this experience helped to sanctify you, consecrated
this experience for your gain and through you been able to bless others?
What's the difference?
What, I mean, I don't think it just happened.
For something about you or something that you did to help the atonement of Jesus Christ
be activated in your life for you to access it to bring about all of the goodness to make
beauty so to speak out of ashes.
How come and what's the difference?
It's, you know, it goes back to that day when I was diving out to my parents' house to take
my life.
I decided to make a change that day and I decided to accept, even though I didn't necessarily
understand in that moment, I decided to accept my Savior.
And because I decided to accept him and his payment for me, for his bloodshed, for his
sacrifice, I made that choice.
And so when these other challenges come, I've already made that choice.
And so the Savior is still there.
And it's not that he's not readily available for other people, but it's just, it's not
everybody's accepted him.
They need to accept him.
And as soon as you accept him in your life, that sorrow, that pain, it ends.
I had this realization the other day.
I realized that you can take two people and you can give them the exact same experience.
And if one has the Savior and one doesn't, the paths are going to be very similar.
The one person that has a Savior is going to grow and learn from experience and the path
of the person that doesn't have the Savior is probably going to turn into alcohol and
sadness and frustration and anger.
The thing is, is the human body wants to find a way to cope.
But if we choose the world, we cope in a worldly way and we'll never find deliverance.
Once you make the choice to accept his sacrifice for the thing that makes up the difference,
you know, that bridge between you and heaven, once you accept the Savior, it takes you somewhere
else and you can't go there by yourself.
You just can't, but you have to at some point accept them.
I have family members that are still struggling from it.
And I'm not saying that they haven't, I guess, accepted the Savior to a greater or lesser
degree, but not in the same way.
And I mean, there's a couple that I can think of that, you know, are really still struggling.
And I know that the answer really just is the Savior.
If you can find him, if you can allow him to help you, it goes away.
The feelings don't, like you learn to live with it, but like that hatred, the anger,
the pit in your stomach because this terrible thing happened, all of that human emotion,
that goes away.
And all of the stuff that the world would have you harp on, that part goes away.
And you learn to, maybe the difference is instead of having worldly sorrow, you have
godly sorrow.
It's just different.
And it also has you hope for a better tomorrow.
And it's not even necessarily hope.
It's like, I know things are going to be hard, but I know that as long as I keep trying,
God won't forsake me because he's already saved me so many times.
So, but once you've tested that, once you've allowed him to help you, you can see it.
But until you have, it's really scary to take that step.
And that's why a lot of people, I honestly believe that's why a lot of people turn into
alcoholics, for example.
If I look at my experience, I used alcohol to cope because that's all I had to dull
the pain and to numb the feelings that I had.
I coped myself, but it didn't work, did it?
But when I accepted the Savior, the alcohol wasn't a need anymore.
I didn't need to cope anymore because the coping mechanism was the Savior.
I replaced it with something that was more than I could understand.
Well, Marona, Marona, he describes that faith in Christ must include hope in Christ.
So the hope that you're really describing, Nathan, is not just wishing.
You know, it doesn't mean that your hope is centered in Christ, hope in Christ.
And there's a power about that, right?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Without it, we've had this conversation about hope before.
And then I remember coming to your class one day, it was probably shortly before you retired.
And I asked you about hope before class, and then you changed your lesson and talked about
hope that whole class period, that whole timeframe, just about the importance of hope and what
hope really is and what hope can do for you.
Hope is an amazing thing.
And yeah, it turns into faith and knowledge and all these other things, but hope keeps
you going.
Yeah.
It's kind of like knowing that that sun's going to come up tomorrow.
It's hope that it's there.
I'll always have hope that he's there and faith that he's there and knowledge that he's there.
But hope is something really akin differently than faith and is, I think, so important.
And all centered in Jesus Christ.
And we really appreciate, Nathan, your sharing your story, but especially we're grateful
for your example of faith in Christ and his atonement, hope in Christ and his atonement,
and your example of being an individual who, knowing that they were a son of God, was willing
to receive.
I think it comes down to accepting it and receiving it, which is an action word.
It's not just a matter of choosing it, but you had to take some action, which you've
done, Nathan, throughout your life.
And I know that you're, we're all flawed.
None of us are perfect.
We're all sinners.
None of us go through this life unscathed, but that all things can be healed through
Christ and his blood.
And you're an amazing example of that, Nathan, and we're really grateful.
Maybe just in closing, you want to share any feeling of testimony or closing thoughts that
you have before we close, we'll give you the last word.
And Nate, as you're doing this, think about what advice you might give to parents who might
be struggling wondering, what could I do to help my son who might be going through something
like that?
If there's anything that loved ones or parents could do to influences, maybe you could include
that.
Yeah.
How can we point others to the Savior?
Well, I'd love to share my testimony.
I guess before I do that, I'll say I had a thought the other day and I write, you know,
that's part of the reason that I remember so many things.
I write lots of things.
And I was cleaning my, I was cleaning one day listening to a podcast and I had this
thought come to my mind of a story.
And so I wrote out this story and I won't share the whole thing, but if you're a parent
and you have somebody that's struggling, like I have my two older kids struggle with different
things.
My oldest daughter is really struggling with identity right now, whether she's a boy or
a girl or what she wants out of her life.
She's struggling.
And that's been hard for me to deal with too.
I just, I don't know how to handle it, right?
It's not an experience that I have to be able to draw on.
But one thing that this story helped me realize was, you know, if you think, you know, just
pretend like you're on a hiking trail and you're hiking and you stay on that path and
the path is clearly marked and you're on it with your family.
And one of your family members divert and go a different path.
There are a lot of things that can happen on the path and off the path, but off the path
it's scary.
Like if you send a kid, you don't know where they're at.
You don't know if they found a cliff.
You don't know if they got attacked by a bear or you don't know.
Like it's, it's a different path.
But one thing that you can take faith in is if you've taught your children to look for
the signs, to follow the path that's said before you, even if they leave it, eventually
they'll find their way back to it.
And that doesn't mean don't care.
That doesn't mean throw your arms up the air and have a Jesus take the wheel moment.
That's not what it means.
It means just have faith in the fact that you've done more than you realize and the person
that your kid is going to become, it can't happen unless they left the path in the first
place.
Sometimes you've got to let it happen and you've got to stand back and let them know
that you love them.
Let them know that you're there.
But really just make sure that they know that you're not angry at them for making a bad
choice.
Because if you, if you make them feel like you're angry, they're not going to come to
you anymore.
They've got to know that you're still there.
I think that's one of the most important things that you can do.
I've seen it with students and I've seen it with my own kids.
If anything, my kids will at least still come around.
They may not be doing things that I agree with, but I have hope just like with me and
just like with my wife that they may leave the path for a while, but in the wilderness
is where they find the Savior.
And in the wilderness, the Savior can guide them back to the path again.
And if you've done all you can to that point, there's not much else you can do other than
pray and hope and keep being diligent yourself.
I know that that's true.
As far as my testimony goes, this, I mean, the church is amazing.
The church is amazing because people look for answers.
They look for who am I and where do I come from and why does God do good things for bad
people and bad things for good people?
I mean, these are all the typical questions.
The gospel answers all of them.
And if you stop to look for the answers, he will give them to you and it doesn't have
to be answers that everyone's getting.
He'll answer you individually.
He'll answer you collectively and he answers you in ways that only you can understand.
He comes to you on your terms in so many different ways.
He talks to you in your language.
He makes it so that you can understand.
He isn't difficult.
The gospel is not difficult.
It is so blatantly easy.
It's us that complicates it.
I know that if you follow the gospel, if you listen, I mean, really listen to the prophet,
he's not going to lead you astray.
He's not.
And most of the time when he just says, um, three of the scriptures, it just means reading
the scriptures.
Like it just, it's basic.
Take it for the basic value that it is.
Because it is, it's basic.
God wants it to be simple and the gospel is simple.
Um, I know that if you follow it, it will make your life better.
I know it.
Um, if you doubt, I mean, you know, that's a different story, but try not to doubt because
look, it helped me.
It can help you.
Um, and it's helped so many other people.
The Lord cares about you.
He knows who you are.
He knows who you are, which is crazy to think.
He's built an entire universe with millions.
I don't even know how many different earths and sons and, but he knows me and he cares
about me.
He cares about if I lose my AirPods, he cares about if I'm doing good or bad in the class.
It's crazy to think, but he cares.
I mean, the scriptures, it says that a sparrow can fall and he will know.
He knows and he cares.
And if you take the time to talk to him, to really talk, not just, Hey, bless the food
or bless my day, bless that I can be happy named Jesus Christ, amen, kind of stuff, like
actually talk.
Like think about, you know, you parents think about what you would love your kids to sit
on and talk to you about.
If you just sit and talk to him, he'll answer.
He wants to give you blessings.
If you ask this gospel is amazing and he is there.
I love it and I don't know where I would be without it.
Um, I'm grateful for the temple.
I love the temple.
The pine of salvation is so amazing to know that my dad is there helping me and my other
family is there helping me is an amazing thing too.
I have a really tender testimony of that and I know that at the end of my life, I'll be
able to do the same thing for my family.
I know it.
There's life after this one.
We don't just close our eyes and never wake up again.
There's so much more than we just don't understand.
And you know what?
Listen to your, your leaders.
I love my church leaders, my the prophet and my state presidents and my bishop.
I love them.
They all just want to help you.
I've seen that in my life too.
Amen.
And Nathan, one more thing.
Just touch for a moment on your relationship with Jesus Christ.
You know, Jesus Christ is, he's in the boat with me.
And as they say, he's, he's hooked next to me, pulling these same weights.
And really honestly, he's pulling my weights and my challenges without me.
I know that he's there and I feel him there often.
It's more than, I mean, it really is like he's a big brother.
I'm the oldest in my family.
As far as siblings go, but I have an uncle who's like my brother.
And whenever I need help, I can call him and he'll talk to me.
He's only eight years older than I am.
And that brotherly relationship that I have between him and I is a lot what I feel with
the Savior.
Whenever I am really struggling or have a question or am frustrated about something,
it's like, you know, I can say, I really need you to help me with this.
Like I don't understand how did you handle it?
How did you do it?
How did you have images and thoughts or ideas come into my mind or I'll have, you know,
a thought to write something and I'll write it down, but answers come.
He is readily available there for me.
He ever since that day, I mean, really honestly, before that day, you know, I know that he
was there.
I just couldn't feel him.
It's, I think you said this, Dave, best when your wife feels bad about something when she
seeks for, to be forgiven about something she just, or she feels bad about something she's
done.
Well, she looks up into heaven and says, thank you, right?
That's how I feel.
His atonement is for me.
It's for you.
It's for everybody.
And whether or not you want to let him pay that price for you, it's already happened.
So you can accept it or you cannot, but if you accept it, at least you don't let it go
to waste.
I know it's hard sometimes to let people help you, but he's already done it and he wants
you to let him step in and he wants you to let him bridge the gap and he wants you to
let him make weak things strong.
And I hope and pray every day that I make him proud because he's done everything for
me.
Thank you so much, Nathan.
It's your love and appreciate you, brother, our friendship, you and your sweetheart, Jess,
and your family.
Been so amazing to have you here with us, Nate, just so you know, on August 21st from
Tent Parley Davidson right here in Oram, Utah, I will be mounting my Harley Davidson with
thousands of other riders and we will ride in honor of Corey Ride and other fallen officers
who have, who have given the ultimate sacrifice.
You've had a lot of tough stuff, brother.
You've been asked to face a lot of things in your young, moldable, shapeable life and
our Heavenly Father loves you.
And is using you.
What an instrument.
Oh my goodness.
What an instrument you are, Nathan.
I feel his great love overpowering all of us today for you as you've experienced your
strength and hope.
What a blessing you are to students.
Yeah, indeed.
And us, family.
And to our listeners.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what an example of the embodiment of Ether 1227.
Thank you for that.
It's been a great podcast.
It's been good to be with you all today.
We look forward to our next opportunity to be together next week.
Make sure that you tune in.
And until then, may God bless you.
May you fill his spirit continually to be with you and please do everything you can
to court the Spirit so that you may fill the Atonement of the Administration of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ to life and your life.
Thanks everybody.
Have a great week.