1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,120 Hi everybody and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,120 In this podcast we highlight the hope, healing and redemption that is available to all of 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,640 us through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,000 My name is Scott Durfee and it's my great pleasure today to also introduce my partner 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,000 in this project. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,920 My name is Brother David Durfee. 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Thanks Scott, nice to be here. 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,640 It's good to have you Dave. 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,520 We've got a lot of great fun things that we're going to be talking about today as we start 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:42,080 our approach into the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:47,280 But before we do that Dave, I wanted to get into a couple of real quick items of interest 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,280 here. 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,400 First off, there are a lot of listeners who are joining us along the way. 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,920 This will be podcast number seven. 15 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,160 I can't believe it's gone that fast but here we are podcast number seven. 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,880 If you haven't already listened to episodes one through six, that's okay. 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,520 Each of these podcasts are designed really to stand on their own with their own merits, 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,080 with their own value, with their own hope and healing, etc. 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:15,080 However, if you're able to combine them all and kind of put them together, we feel like 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,760 the experience might be more complete that way. 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:23,520 So if you haven't already done so, we invite you to at your leisure go back and listen 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,480 to episodes one through six as well. 23 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,200 This will be episode number seven and again, you don't have to go listen to one through 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,880 six before you listen to seven. 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,120 We're just inviting you to do that to complete the experience. 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,120 Also we want to just give a special thanks to all of you, our listeners, for listening, 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,240 for joining us here. 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,360 This has been a fantastic experience for both Dave and myself but we hope it has been for 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,720 you as well and through your emails. 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,520 And again, you can email us at heredeemsus.com. 31 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:58,200 We thank you for your emails, your comments, your questions. 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:59,400 We've had several. 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,280 A couple of those questions I have right here, Dave, let's just take a couple of minutes 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,680 and maybe address those. 35 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,600 Before I do, though, let's give a special shout out to Brent Saucer. 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,240 Thanks so much, Brent, for your words of encouragement. 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,320 We're excited to hear about your mission. 38 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,920 Brent's in Florida and we appreciate his feedback and comments. 39 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:24,960 Jeff Dillard in Washington, a father of a close friend of mine who I've served in leadership 40 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,400 positions within our ward. 41 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,640 Love your son, Jeff. 42 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:29,880 What a great man. 43 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,600 That means that you must be as well. 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,640 So thanks for your encouraging words from the two of you. 45 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:39,600 Among many others, there were others but we did want to pick a couple and just give a 46 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,800 special shout out. 47 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,240 Dave, I've got a couple of questions here. 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,440 These are important questions. 49 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:50,920 These are questions that probably a lot of parents, people have. 50 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:55,480 This first one has particular interest in the parental arena. 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,480 This comes from a concerned mom. 52 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:05,000 This sweet mom wants to know how to handle a situation with her son. 53 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,080 This mom and dad actually have a son who has struggled with many things. 54 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,440 There's a same sex attraction component that's attached to it as well, but he struggled with 55 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:20,480 many things and he's been in and out of his commitment to the gospel, to his commitment 56 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,480 to his covenants. 57 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:22,480 He's made covenants. 58 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:28,640 He's decided to set covenants aside and many things along those lines. 59 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:31,200 I'm going to read what the mom says. 60 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,760 I'm at a loss. 61 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,720 We've asked ourselves lately, why again? 62 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,320 Surely this is not how it's supposed to be and our hearts are broken. 63 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,640 What did we do wrong? 64 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,920 I want to say that again. 65 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,520 What did we do wrong? 66 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:54,400 That theme seems to be pretty constant with many folks in our society who are struggling 67 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,960 or who have other loved ones who may be struggling as well. 68 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,760 Surely, and I go back to the question here, surely this is not what our Heavenly Father 69 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:04,960 has planned. 70 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:10,920 How do we see our son the way Heavenly Father sees our son? 71 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:18,720 Dave, I think that's a question that we have the ability to maybe add some insight to. 72 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:24,080 Obviously, this is one that we'll be talking about as we go throughout each one of these 73 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,920 sessions and I think we'll get into more around these types of things as we go. 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:35,120 How would you initially start out counseling with or encouraging a mom in a situation like 75 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,120 this? 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:43,480 Well, it's really critical, Scott, to be able to see our children the way God sees them. 77 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,320 Certainly God isn't surprised by any of this. 78 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:54,120 The phrase, this isn't the way it's supposed to be kind of strikes me and I think, well, 79 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,280 what way is it supposed to be? 80 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:04,960 I don't think that we have any promises before we came here that things were going to be 81 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,320 easy, that things were going to be comfortable for us. 82 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:16,960 We've talked about that in past episodes and it strikes me that we all need to understand 83 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:26,320 that the scriptures are full of examples of great parents who had wayward children. 84 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,680 The father had lost one-third, right? 85 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:37,600 In the premortal existence, there was a war and one-third of his children were lost. 86 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:43,400 Nephi had some rebellious children. 87 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:48,440 Jacob had some sons who really struggled. 88 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:56,880 You can look throughout the scriptures, Joseph Smith, children didn't receive all the covenants 89 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:02,960 that they needed to have in this life to be an eternal family. 90 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:10,080 So I don't know quite how it's supposed to be, but the reality is that many of us are 91 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,600 going to struggle and that all families have problems and the great laboratory of life, 92 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,120 Scott, is a family. 93 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,760 This is where we experiment. 94 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,280 This is where we see failure. 95 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:26,240 This is where we try things over and over and over again. 96 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:34,760 This is a laboratory where we somehow learn by failure, where we can progress through 97 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:41,360 pain, where a family is a wonderful thing and it is supposed to be eternal. 98 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,320 I believe that they will be if we keep our covenants. 99 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:51,560 But I don't think we have to worry so much about our children and about our influence 100 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:59,000 on them as much as we need to remember that they are also God's children and that it is 101 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:04,080 God's responsibility, Scott, to change his children. 102 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:12,360 It is our responsibility as parents to love our children and to teach our children. 103 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,720 But ultimately, we cannot change them. 104 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:22,080 I had an experience years ago, a really close friend, a stake president in Iowa, who had 105 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:27,240 a daughter who really struggled with her faith, eventually lost her faith, and eventually 106 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,320 had her records removed from the church. 107 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:40,240 And he and his wife prayed for months, years, that God would change his daughter. 108 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,280 Please help us to change her. 109 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,600 This would be their prayer. 110 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:52,600 And one night, they were praying together and the same prayer helped us to change our 111 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,560 daughter. 112 00:07:54,560 --> 00:08:02,560 And both of them had an impression and an experience and in the middle of their prayer, they opened 113 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:10,720 their eyes and they looked at each other and they said, did you hear that? 114 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:17,560 And what they had heard after praying for this for a long time was that they had heard 115 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:24,360 an impression or like a voice to their minds simultaneously. 116 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,680 Our responsibility is to love her. 117 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,400 I will change her. 118 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:39,680 With that perspective and that promise, it completely changed their relationship with 119 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:41,960 their daughter. 120 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,760 They said to each other, we can love her. 121 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:46,760 We can love her. 122 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,400 And they still felt some responsibility to teach her. 123 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:56,080 But based on the promise that they heard that night, that God would change her, they knew 124 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,320 that it was now just a matter of time. 125 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,360 And they continued to have a really sweet relationship with that girl who has not yet 126 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,400 come back, but who they believe and know eventually will. 127 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,880 And that their responsibility isn't to change her, their responsibility is to love her. 128 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:16,880 Right. 129 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,120 A lot of this has to go back to our identity. 130 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:20,120 Right. 131 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,400 And this is understanding who we are. 132 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,480 If we understand who we are, if I am, then they are. 133 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,280 If I am His, they are His. 134 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,520 And whose we are? 135 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:30,880 And whose we are. 136 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,960 That they belong to the Father. 137 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,040 They're His children too. 138 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,160 They belong to Jesus Christ. 139 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,880 Jesus Christ died for Him or her too. 140 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:40,960 Right? 141 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,040 We need to remember whose we are. 142 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,040 They are of the covenant. 143 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:50,920 Whether they're baptized or not, because the parents have made covenants, that child is 144 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,040 in the covenant, born in the covenant. 145 00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:00,880 So we need to remember not just who we are, but again, going back to previous episodes, 146 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,440 whose we are. 147 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,920 And then going back to previous episodes, if we strive to have the administration of 148 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,600 the Atonement of Jesus Christ active in our lives through the Holy Spirit, who is the 149 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,800 administrator of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 150 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:21,240 If we strive to have that, then there seems to be a peace even in potentially that turmoil. 151 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:22,240 Right? 152 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,240 And I think that even that turmoil can be a matter of perception. 153 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Because there's nothing that's going on here that is permanently disqualifying anybody 154 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,600 at that point to go and be in Heavenly Father's presence forever. 155 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,320 I mean, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, this is a process. 156 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,680 This is a lifelong process that through the merits of Him, not our own, but through His 157 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:48,880 merits as we strive to have that His Spirit in our lives to reassure us, to reaffirm 158 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,280 our faith in that, then peace can come. 159 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,280 And I think that's a great advice. 160 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:54,280 Thanks, Dave. 161 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,280 Yeah. 162 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,280 Thank you, Scott. 163 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:04,760 So I know that if we will live by the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, allow the Spirit to administer 164 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:11,520 the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives, that we can have peace, no matter what our 165 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,720 children do or don't do. 166 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:21,000 And it's our responsibility to change, to allow God to change us. 167 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,680 Once I was praying for my son to be changed, help me to change my son. 168 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:33,000 I was saying the same prayer as my stake president friend because of my son's challenges. 169 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,840 And I was somewhat chastised by the Spirit in the middle of this prayer. 170 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:47,040 And the Spirit prompted me to, the impression was, you're praying for the wrong thing. 171 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:54,080 Stop praying that I change your son and start praying that I change you. 172 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:59,720 Well, I pause for a minute and then I change the language of my prayer. 173 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:05,240 And I believe that the language of prayer and the words that we use in prayer can really 174 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:06,240 make a difference. 175 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:13,160 My prayer after that was, please, help me to be a better dad. 176 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:18,520 Help me to see my son the way thou sees my son. 177 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:24,720 And when I began to offer that prayer, Scott, it not only changed me, but it changed my 178 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,400 relationship with my son. 179 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,800 And I was, I was, I know a better dad for him because I could see him differently and 180 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:39,960 because I trusted that God would had him and that God would change him. 181 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,400 And then as long as I was doing my responsibility to love him, it was, it was going to be fine. 182 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,200 I love that. 183 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,120 And it's only through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, through the hope and healing that comes 184 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,440 through the redemption of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we're able to facilitate 185 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:58,240 that and see that facilitation in our lives and in the lives of those that we love. 186 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,240 Another one. 187 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,680 And this will just be a brief, another quick question, email. 188 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:09,920 I'm going to edit this one a little bit just for the sake of its length. 189 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,840 I'm seeing that my Heavenly Father is aware of me. 190 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,240 This is what I need to hear. 191 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,800 There have been so many people that I've talked to in a struggle. 192 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Now this person's been struggling with a situation that's been happening over the course of decades 193 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,920 and is coming to grips and able to now start working through some of it, Dave. 194 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,080 And now I go back to what she says, and I wonder what's wrong with me. 195 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,800 Why can't I get past this? 196 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,400 Why am I so weak? 197 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,120 I don't know how to use the Atonement. 198 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,840 I don't know how to use the Atonement. 199 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,840 That's something that I think I hear a lot in the, so my sweetheart Deb and I teach an 200 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,760 Institute class at YSA Stake at BYU. 201 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,080 And that's something that we hear there also quite a bit. 202 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,040 I don't know how to use the Atonement. 203 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,240 He must be so disappointed in me because I'm such a failure. 204 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,520 But in this past episode, and I think this is referring back to episode number four, 205 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,720 in this past episode, it's helped me some. 206 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,800 What you said about, as long as I can feel the Holy Ghost, then the Atonement is helping 207 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,200 me. 208 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,760 That's what I'll focus on. 209 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:12,880 That's what I'll expand. 210 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,840 And that seems to be helping me so much. 211 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:20,080 So I'm so grateful that others are able to start seeing the hope and healing that can 212 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,640 come through this as well. 213 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:27,440 Let me make comment about that communication or email, Scott. 214 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,400 Too many of us see the Atonement as a thing in and of itself. 215 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:40,280 I'm thinking about President Eyring, who taught this in a face-to-face to youth many years 216 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,280 ago. 217 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,920 I remember it was a broadcast from Palmyra. 218 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,400 He was in Palmyra. 219 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:54,600 And Eyring and Elder Holland, and they made this course correction, doctrinal correction. 220 00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:00,560 Too many of us in the church see the Atonement as something in and of itself. 221 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,120 And this communication is, I don't know how the Atonement works, or I don't know how to 222 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,800 access the Atonement. 223 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,280 Well, that's not the way we should see it. 224 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,160 You can't separate the Atonement from Jesus Christ. 225 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:21,360 And the real question here is, how can I strengthen my relationship with Jesus Christ? 226 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:32,000 Jesus Christ is the power behind the Atonement, and the Holy Ghost is the messenger, the administrator 227 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,880 of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. 228 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:43,560 So really, instead of being focused on the Atonement, we should be focused on a relationship, 229 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,720 a relationship with Jesus Christ. 230 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,160 How can I have a closer relationship with Him? 231 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,040 How can I receive His power in my life? 232 00:15:54,040 --> 00:16:01,240 And how can I receive the Spirit to administer the effects of the Atonement, mercy, grace, 233 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,840 redemptive, and enabling powers in my life through the Holy Ghost? 234 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:13,360 So that's a course correction in a way of seeing the Atonement a little differently. 235 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,880 It doesn't stand alone. 236 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,280 It's not in and of itself a separate entity. 237 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,880 We shouldn't speak ever. 238 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,200 I know we still do sometimes, even you and me and others in the church. 239 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,480 We sometimes speak about the Atonement without attaching it to Jesus Christ. 240 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:31,760 And we need to do better. 241 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,600 President Nelson has told us that we need to do better with that. 242 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,240 There's no Atonement without Jesus Christ, and we shouldn't speak of it without it being 243 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:46,200 attached to Him and recognizing how it is administered into our lives through the Holy 244 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,200 Ghost. 245 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,360 Well, and that's the purpose. 246 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,280 I think, Dave, that's the reason that you and I decided as we were sitting at dinner 247 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,160 one night and you said to me, Scott, we should do a podcast. 248 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:02,360 I think that's what we had in mind was helping folks and ourselves understand that that is 249 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,080 the case and that is only through that the complete happiness and peace can come to the 250 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,800 hearts of men that can come to the hearts of those that we love, our children, our spouses, 251 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,520 and it can even come to the hearts of those that we may be in conflict with. 252 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,680 And that's the beauty of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, one of the many beauties of 253 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,360 the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 254 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:27,560 So Dave, we've gone through a lot of information, had a lot of really great experiences over 255 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,880 the last several episodes here. 256 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,120 Why don't you just take a second and kind of recap where we've been, kind of give us 257 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:39,440 an outline of or a lay of the land of where we are going today from here and then we'll 258 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,200 just take it from there. 259 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,920 Yeah, thank you, Scott. 260 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:49,560 So we spent quite a bit of time speaking about the premortal existence and about the plan 261 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:58,600 of redemption being presented there and the counter rebellion, the lies of Satan and how 262 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:05,040 he believed we didn't need redemption and the great war that broke out there. 263 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:10,000 We talked about that, I think, in one whole episode and it's really, I think, critical 264 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,760 in all that we talk about in all of these episodes is to understand that we lived as 265 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:21,840 spirits in a premortal existence as sons and daughters of God. 266 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,000 I know that doctrine is true. 267 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:31,280 Then we have spent several episodes up till today speaking about identity and who we are 268 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,320 and who's we are. 269 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:42,000 Not only are we sons and daughters of heavenly parents, but we are also children of Abraham 270 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,400 and Sarah, children of Adam and Eve. 271 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:53,080 And ultimately, we have been purchased through the blood of Christ and we belong to him. 272 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,880 Who's are we? 273 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,840 We belong to Jesus Christ who purchased us. 274 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,560 We belong to Abraham. 275 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,640 We belong to Adam and Eve. 276 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:09,600 The last few sessions we have talked about the fall of Adam and Eve and how that has 277 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,360 affected all of us. 278 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,520 Anyone that's born into this world is fallen. 279 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,120 And we talked about how we should celebrate that. 280 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:23,800 That was a critical piece of the plan of redemption that we be fallen, God knew that we would 281 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,040 be fallen. 282 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:33,000 That was part of his plan to help us to grow and to progress, to experience a celestial 283 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:41,600 experience, the pains and the sicknesses and sorrows of this world, to help us learn lessons, 284 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:49,040 to learn the lessons and to help us to rely on Jesus Christ. 285 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:56,920 So I hope that we are thanking Heavenly Father for the fall in our prayers that we're acknowledging 286 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:03,780 our weakness before him, which he has given us through the fall and that we're celebrating 287 00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:11,160 our humanists and that we're kind of getting over ourselves and our self-righteousness. 288 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,520 We're just sinners, helping sinners. 289 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,160 We sin every day. 290 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,600 We need to repent every day. 291 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,200 It's a process and part of the plan of redemption. 292 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:31,120 And if one understands the fall, really truly understands the doctrine of the fall, they 293 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:40,960 will begin to appreciate and desire to understand the atonement of Jesus Christ and the need 294 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:48,560 that we have for a redeemer and Savior. 295 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,560 And that's where we're at today. 296 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,840 Yeah, and I think it's that complete and utter need, right, that we from this point forward 297 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:00,120 that we'll really be starting to establish how important and how really foundational 298 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,320 to all of this that that is. 299 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,720 So Dave, from the fall of Adam and Eve, there are a couple of things that came about, right? 300 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,680 And we're going to talk about those a little bit today, maybe right now is the time to 301 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,680 do that. 302 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,520 But there's a couple of negatives that came because of the fall. 303 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,120 Both of those have to do with death, the spiritual death and the physical death. 304 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:23,120 Would this be an appropriate time to kind of move into some discussion around that? 305 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:24,440 Yes, absolutely. 306 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,640 The fall was part of the plan. 307 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:33,120 I told this story about my wife who couldn't fully appreciate the atonement of Jesus Christ 308 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:38,520 until she understood the fall and I think I shared that story in the last episode or 309 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,760 two. 310 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,680 Some great things came about. 311 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,200 Scott has a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. 312 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,320 We believe that they consciously chose to do that in order to fulfill God's plan in 313 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,760 order that we might have children in order that we might have joy. 314 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:03,040 Adam fell that men might be and man is that he might have joy that we might learn the 315 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,480 difference between the bitter and the sweet. 316 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,320 So there were some positives that came out of the fall for sure. 317 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,400 But there were two major negatives. 318 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,040 Spiritual death and physical death. 319 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:25,160 Spiritual death is the separation from God and physical death is the separation of the 320 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,760 spirit from the body. 321 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:35,160 These two deaths are the two great negatives of the fall. 322 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,560 Now the fall of Adam and Eve affects all of us. 323 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,360 All of us in our lifetime, we experience spiritual death. 324 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,360 We experience it when we sin. 325 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,960 We experience it when we separate ourselves from God. 326 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,440 We experience it every day really because we live in a celestial world. 327 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,480 We don't live in the constant presence of God. 328 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,480 We have been separated from him and our heavenly homes. 329 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:12,120 So this is a world where spiritual death predominates and we all will experience physical death. 330 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:20,080 It affects all of us directly and indirectly to see family members pass away and to see 331 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:28,400 loved ones and to see the tragedies that we witness on the news are all examples of spiritual 332 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,400 death and physical death. 333 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:47,480 Jesus Christ's atonement, Scott, unconditionally, I want to stress that word again, unconditionally, 334 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:59,520 the atonement of Jesus Christ overcame for all mankind spiritual death and physical death. 335 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:06,800 All of us will return to the presence of God after we have been resurrected and the spirit 336 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,440 and the body are joined together. 337 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,640 Well, if we're talking about these two deaths, spiritual death and physical death, that seems 338 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,360 to be sort of an abstract concept, right? 339 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,400 To a degree, I mean, not completely, but to a degree, a spiritual death, I understand. 340 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,720 I am separated from my heavenly Father. 341 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,080 I'm not living in his presence. 342 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,720 Physical death, I realize my spirit will someday separate from my body, return to my 343 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,360 Father in heaven and my body will be placed in the ground or whatever. 344 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:37,720 I mean, that's the physical death. 345 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,960 But so what? 346 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,000 You know, what does that even mean? 347 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,680 So the spiritual death, what are some of the effects that we feel from the spiritual death 348 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:50,320 and what are some of the effects that we have or we get to or we are asked to experience 349 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,600 in this life because of the physical death and the spiritual death. 350 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,240 So let's just kind of maybe, and this will be a super high level summarization of what 351 00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,760 maybe some of those things could be. 352 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,800 But for example, spiritual death, when we are feeling a lack of peace in our life and 353 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:11,960 anything in our life that's dark or anything that doesn't have to do with complete attachment 354 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,520 to and communion with our heavenly Father, we can attribute that to spiritual death. 355 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,880 So you know, those things can be like discouragement. 356 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,960 They could be lack of faith. 357 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,360 They could be a, I'm not sure about my future. 358 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,280 They can be fear. 359 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,040 You know, anytime that we're facing fear, that probably is because of our effects of 360 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,240 the spiritual death because fear and faith can't exist in the same place, right? 361 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,560 And so, you know, that's probably all coming from the spiritual death as well. 362 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,880 Well we live in a world of sin. 363 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,080 We're tainted by sin every day. 364 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Almost moment by moment, we see the effects of it either as other sin against us or they 365 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,720 sin against our loved ones or we have inappropriate thoughts. 366 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,640 We have inappropriate emotions. 367 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:10,840 All of these celestial experiences that we have daily separate us from the full presence 368 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840 of God. 369 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,880 We can enjoy the gift of the Holy Ghost. 370 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:19,320 We're so blessed and we should be so grateful that we have the gift of the Holy Ghost who 371 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:25,720 can be a constant companion for us, who can remind us, who can spiritually help us to 372 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:33,760 become more alive, but the fact is that we are separated from the presence of God because 373 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,360 of living in a celestial world and we are all tainted by sin daily. 374 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:43,720 And because of that separation, we experience those things that I mentioned among many, 375 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,720 many others. 376 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,400 Now we talk about the physical death, right? 377 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,600 So the physical death, so what about the physical death? 378 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,320 Well because of the physical death, we have anything that has to do with our body that's 379 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:00,920 messed up, that's not completely in alignment with health or whatever that comes from our 380 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,000 body, that is a direct result of our physical death that comes because of the fall of Adam 381 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,680 and Eve, the fall of us all. 382 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,000 And so what is attached to physical death? 383 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,360 Physical death can be anything like disease, any kind of cancer, any kind of deformity, 384 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:20,240 any kind of birth defect, any kind of anything that is physically challenging or creates 385 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,720 physical challenges, that is a direct result of the physical death. 386 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:33,760 And I would add not just physical, mental, mental illness, mental deficiencies, mental 387 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:43,840 challenges and emotional challenges, chemical imbalances, so many things associated with 388 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:53,200 the effects of the physical death, the blood, the corruptible part of us which carries disease 389 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,840 and sickness and some of those things, that's one of the negatives of the fall. 390 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:05,160 And the atonement of Jesus Christ God overcome these things that we did not choose which 391 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:11,840 are negative, spiritual death, meaning that we're all cut off from the presence of the 392 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:21,080 Lord and physical death, meaning we all experience physical, mental deficiencies. 393 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:30,640 All of that will be unconditionally overcome by the atonement of Jesus Christ as we are 394 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:39,400 resurrected to perfected bodies of flesh and bone, as we are resurrected and returned 395 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:45,320 to the presence of God, unconditionally we become spiritually alive when we return back 396 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,320 to His presence. 397 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,680 Now that doesn't mean that we'll stay there, that we'll live there, that we'll dwell there, 398 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,960 we know the scripture that says no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God. 399 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,520 That's true, amen. 400 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,840 You can't maybe dwell there if you've been wicked here, but you will return to the presence 401 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:11,800 of God and unconditionally because of Christ and His atonement all mankind will return 402 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,440 to His presence. 403 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,360 This is taught over and over again in the Book of Mormon. 404 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,400 It's taught really beautifully in one place in the Bible in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 405 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:27,040 which we have read before that as in Adam all die even so in Christ shall all be made 406 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,600 alive spiritually and physically. 407 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:37,040 I love the scripture that is in Helaman in the Book of Mormon. 408 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:43,720 Samuel the Lamanite teaches this so clearly that I would like to read a few verses if 409 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,320 I could because I think that it's important to understand that we're all going to return 410 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,680 to the presence of God, Scott. 411 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,520 Some people think that if I'm wicked enough I'll just go to hell, I won't pass go, I 412 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,320 won't collect $200 and I'll just go to jail. 413 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,760 It's not going to be that simple. 414 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:09,240 Those who choose to live a wicked life here are going to return to the presence of God. 415 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,200 Those who live a righteous life here, they're going to return to the presence of God all 416 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,800 to be judged. 417 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,400 I think that really changes my behaviors when I think about that. 418 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,960 I think about it when I sin. 419 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,880 I think about it when I'm doing good. 420 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:34,640 It's just I think critical that we give this more thought and think about the afterlife 421 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,840 and how Jesus Christ overcame these two deaths. 422 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,560 So this is Helaman chapter 14. 423 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,160 I'm going to read verses 15, 16, and 17. 424 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaking of Jesus Christ and his atonement. 425 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:55,320 For behold, he surely must die, that salvation may come. 426 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:04,040 Yea it behooveeth him, and becomeeth expedient, that he dyeth Jesus Christ, to bring to pass 427 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:12,040 the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought back into the presence 428 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,680 of the Lord. 429 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,840 Yea behold, this death of Jesus Christ. 430 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:25,400 Beingeth to pass, I'm going to add unconditionally, the resurrection and redeemeth all mankind 431 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,680 from the first death, that spiritual death, for all mankind by the fall of Adam, being 432 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:38,080 cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal 433 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,560 and to things spiritual. 434 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:47,800 But behold, verse 17, the resurrection of Christ, redeemeth mankind. 435 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:55,680 Yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord. 436 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,360 Sons of perdition, murders, anyone that's got a physical body, anyone that's been born 437 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:08,360 on this earth's gut, men, women, and children will return to the presence of God after the 438 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:15,120 resurrection, the universal resurrection, to be judged. 439 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,800 I used to ask my students, so what? 440 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,840 What does that matter? 441 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:26,280 And they would struggle a little bit to give really meaningful answers. 442 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,880 And my simple response to that was, well, how would it change your behavior if you thought 443 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,380 about that more often? 444 00:32:33,380 --> 00:32:36,940 How would that change your behavior? 445 00:32:36,940 --> 00:32:40,280 It changes mine. 446 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,560 Changes mine too. 447 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,120 The other thing too, I think that as we talk about this, and it's so important that we 448 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,440 understand that we will return to the presence of God, it's so important that we do understand 449 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,320 that our physical bodies will be made whole. 450 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,400 It's so important that those spiritual and physical deaths will ultimately be overcome. 451 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,480 But what about now? 452 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,440 How do these things affect us now? 453 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,440 How does so? 454 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,760 We talked about the physical death, we talked about the spiritual death, and a few of the 455 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,160 things that are attributed to that. 456 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,760 There are more, but a few of the things that are attributed to that. 457 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,120 There's another one that I want to talk about for just a second, and that has kind of a 458 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,800 combination of the spiritual and the physical death. 459 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,840 Any type of addiction falls into that. 460 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:29,040 Any type of addiction is a lack of spirit in a life and is obviously a physical death 461 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,120 phenomenon. 462 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:37,080 Because what is happening here is because of the physical body, the addiction, the craving 463 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,680 becomes alive and overrides everything spiritual in our lives. 464 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,000 And because of a spiritual lack, the physical body is allowed to do that. 465 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,160 So through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I see not just ultimately, not just when we 466 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:58,240 return to His presence, not just when that final judgment and assignment of our eternal 467 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:04,000 dwelling is handed out or that we participate in, rather. 468 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:10,120 The thing about those types of things is this is, the so what for me on this is, so what? 469 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,640 The physical death and the spiritual death will ultimately be overcome. 470 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:15,640 So what? 471 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:16,800 I want to know about right now. 472 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,400 And so many of us feel that way. 473 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,960 And I think we all feel that way to some extent or another. 474 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:21,960 So what about right now? 475 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,120 Well, we've already answered that. 476 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,440 We answered it in great detail last week. 477 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,160 We even answered it as we were addressing one of the questions that was sent to us today. 478 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,800 How does it have, how does this take effect in my life? 479 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,400 Well, the way that this takes effect in my life and I don't necessarily maybe overcome 480 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:42,640 or conquer the physical death, I may not overcome or conquer the spiritual death, but I get 481 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:49,360 relief from that sometimes more often than others, sometimes with more intensity or greater 482 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,680 magnitude than at other times. 483 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,720 But when I get relief from the results or the effects of the physical and the spiritual 484 00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,960 death, the Atonement is working in my life through the administration of it, through 485 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,200 the Comforter, the Holy Ghost. 486 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,360 Yeah. 487 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:12,840 And you know, Scott, what an amazing gift that we have a member of the Godhead, the 488 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:22,720 Holy Ghost as the third member of the Godhead who wants to be with us, who God has sent, 489 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:29,640 who doesn't have a body so that he can be present with us so that he can influence us 490 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,360 so that he can be our companion, our Comforter. 491 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,920 What an amazing gift. 492 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:42,680 And so for those who will receive the ordinances and covenants of the gospel, now I know everyone 493 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:49,840 on this earth can receive the power of the Holy Ghost, can receive answers to prayers, 494 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,560 inspiration, even revelation and direction in their life through the power of the Holy 495 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:04,120 Ghost, that those who are willing to make ordinances, receive ordinances and make covenants 496 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:10,560 with God can receive a third member of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost, to be their constant 497 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:11,560 companion. 498 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,720 Well, what a blessing. 499 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:24,880 But we still are affected by the things of this world and will not fully come back into 500 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,440 the presence of God until after this life. 501 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,240 There have been a few exceptions to that, like the brother of Jared in the Book of Mormon 502 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:39,800 who completely went back into the presence of the pre-mortal Jesus Christ and in that 503 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:48,240 great chapter in Ether chapter three where he went beyond the fall fully back into the 504 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,520 presence of the Lord. 505 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:57,480 That's a pretty unusual, rare, special experience that has been experienced by probably only 506 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,360 a few individuals on this earth. 507 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:10,560 But you're right, the spiritual and physical death are really connected in this life, Scott. 508 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:21,760 So much of our sins and the sins of others cause physical challenges. 509 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:27,720 We have the example of Zezram in the Book of Mormon who because of his sins and his lying 510 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:32,280 spirit becomes physically ill and sick. 511 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,320 I know that they are connected. 512 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,800 Those two deaths can oftentimes be connected in this life. 513 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,920 And addiction is a great example of that. 514 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,640 Yeah, well, and there are other things as well. 515 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,000 It just happens to be that's my experience. 516 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,120 That's my background. 517 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,960 That's my kind of vantage point, if you will. 518 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,920 But I know that I'm not the only one that has that vantage point. 519 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,840 And it's so vast, right? 520 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:03,560 I mean, my addiction is one thing, but the adict not is was, which is at bay now because 521 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:10,600 I get a spiritual reprieve, I mean a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition only. 522 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:16,120 But I know that that's the case because there's some steps. 523 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:21,360 Anytime we enter or anybody engages in a 12 step program, and it doesn't matter the type 524 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,200 of 12 step program, whether it's for chemicals, whether it's for behaviors. 525 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,200 And when I say behaviors, what kind of behaviors do you mean, Scott? 526 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:33,240 Like eating disorders or sexual behaviors or addictions or pornography addictions or 527 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:34,720 things along those lines. 528 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,320 And then we have chemical addictions. 529 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,960 We have alcohol, we have drugs, we have many, many other things. 530 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,840 Then we have other behavioral addictions. 531 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,600 One of the things that's really surprising me came to light, and I've been around addiction 532 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:52,120 recovery for 23 plus years involved, not just on the outskirts, but involved. 533 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:58,800 And this was a new one to me when in our YSA, our Young Single Adult Institute class that 534 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,680 Devon and I teach. 535 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,400 It's been brought to our attention that there are new behavioral addictions around gaming. 536 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,720 People are just spending so much time on their computer that they lose detachment or they 537 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,400 become detached rather from everything. 538 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,160 And that's one of the definitions of addiction is that it is a lack of connection and especially 539 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,200 a lack of connection to our Heavenly Father. 540 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,400 Any of the 12 step programs that use these 12 steps use basically the same 12 steps. 541 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,840 The first three steps really kind of speak to the things that we've been talking about. 542 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,160 The first step is that we admitted that we were powerless, that our lives have become 543 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:36,600 unmanageable. 544 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,600 Powerless over what? 545 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,480 Powerless over alcohol, powerless over sexual addictions, powerless over drugs, powerless 546 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,640 over whatever it may be. 547 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,520 Our lives have become unmanageable because of our addiction, because we can't control 548 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,640 that component of our lives. 549 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:52,640 That's number one. 550 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:53,760 Number two, we believed. 551 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,040 We came to believe that power greater than ourselves could restore us, could restore 552 00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,680 us to sanity. 553 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,040 And number three, we decided. 554 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,640 We made a decision to turn our will in our life over the care of God as we understand 555 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:06,640 Him. 556 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,760 So, you know, in the gospel of Jesus Christ, what I have just described is a broken heart 557 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,280 and a contrite spirit. 558 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,920 A broken heart and a contrite spirit. 559 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:20,640 Number one, I acknowledged my own nothingness, His greatness, His power, His all love, all 560 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,360 loving kindness. 561 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,720 Number two, I believed that He could make that restoration for me real. 562 00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:34,200 And as we come to make that belief, that obviously has to be based on a testimony of whatever. 563 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,480 It has to be based on our identity. 564 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,800 It has to be based on the things that we've talked about in coming to know Him, spending 565 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,480 time with Him. 566 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,120 That's how we come to that belief. 567 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,160 So number one, acknowledge number two, believe in number three, we make a decision to turn 568 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:55,080 our will in our life over the care of God and to understand Him. 569 00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:01,600 And as we understand Him and that understanding really does increase as we make that effort 570 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:02,600 to do so. 571 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:10,120 So, these three things are really kind of the reader's digest version of how we get 572 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,840 started in moving towards overcoming the effects of the spiritual and physical death. 573 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,920 And they're all laid out for us right there. 574 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,280 And heart, contract, spirit. 575 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:26,400 Yeah, well, it sounds like to me listening to you describe those things that it all comes 576 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,160 down to a relationship. 577 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,480 It all comes down to really knowing who we are, who's we are. 578 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:40,280 It comes down to a relationship with God, doing all those things and turning our will 579 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,240 over to Him is to me about a relationship. 580 00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:56,560 And this whole idea of the at one month, at one month of Jesus Christ overcomes the separation. 581 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,640 Separation is a lonely word. 582 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:06,920 And the at one month brings us back to ourselves. 583 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:12,800 It unites our spirit and our bodies here and now and will in the resurrection. 584 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,600 We become one. 585 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,040 You know, I think that that's, I think some people here, their spirits and their bodies 586 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:26,520 are in some ways couldn't be further apart and tell their dead. 587 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:33,240 I think it's important that we have this unity that we recognize the spirit and we try to 588 00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:37,040 have unity in the spirit and the body. 589 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:43,000 That we have unity with the Godhead that we try to overcome the separation from the Lord 590 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:49,120 by receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost in our life by, by focusing on what can I do 591 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:54,320 to have the spirit of the Holy Ghost in my life? 592 00:42:54,320 --> 00:43:00,880 What can I do to return and live eternally in the presence of God? 593 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,960 It all comes down to relationships and death is about separation. 594 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:15,760 And the at one month of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes spiritual separation and death and 595 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:22,320 it overcomes physical separation and death. 596 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,320 That's great news. 597 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,440 That's great news for us as individuals. 598 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:31,600 That's great news for us as sons and daughters of heavenly parents who love us and have given 599 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,240 us a way to come home. 600 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:44,160 But there's also relief and there's also comfort in this for the moms out there. 601 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,880 Like the question that we read earlier, my son's struggling. 602 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,160 How do I see him like Heavenly Father sees him? 603 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:57,280 Well, these types of understandings and these types of witnesses of the spirit that are 604 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,400 in hand with these understandings is the spirit witnesses unto us the truthfulness of the things 605 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,640 that we're talking about, which it will if we seek with pure intent and with a sincere 606 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,800 heart, which it will as the spirit witnesses those things to us, it should and does indeed 607 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:21,560 give us hope and ease in our life, especially as we find concerning, especially as we find 608 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:26,040 concerning the things with our kids and with those that we love so much. 609 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,400 We watch those that we love and sometimes I've said it, you've said it, I know you've 610 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,400 said it. 611 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:32,400 You've probably said it. 612 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,600 I wish I could take that from you. 613 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,660 Whatever it is that somebody's going through, I wish there was a way sometimes that I could 614 00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:39,200 take that from them. 615 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,040 And we say that in all sincerity. 616 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,680 Well, there is a way that we can support folks, our family and our friends, those that we 617 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,040 love, those that we have stewardship over, whatever the case may be. 618 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:54,480 There is a way and there are ways for us to show Heavenly Father's love and acceptance 619 00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:00,240 and accept it and what's happening in their lives to as acceptance in our own lives through 620 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,840 the Atonement of Jesus Christ, through the hope of the restoration of all things, through 621 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:11,440 the hope of the restoration of my relationship as it once was with my Heavenly Father, meaning 622 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,480 face to face, obviously deeper because of the experiences that I've gone through here, 623 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:23,760 but as it was in the beginning, face to face in a loving and a pure situation. 624 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:31,080 We're only beginning to touch on the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in this episode. 625 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,840 You know, unconditionally, it overcomes spiritual and physical death. 626 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:43,640 But there are other aspects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that are covered unconditionally. 627 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:51,880 For example, Scott, we adopted a son who was born with fetal alcoholism, who's bipolar, 628 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:57,920 who has Asperger's, and I don't think he chose that. 629 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,240 That was something that was the result of the fall. 630 00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:10,480 His mother, choosing to, his biological mother, choosing to sin, being a drug addict, had 631 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:17,520 consequences on my son's life that may be, even though we've prayed for a miracle, they 632 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:25,640 may be irreversible in this life because of the fall, and he has been terribly affected 633 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,160 because of the sins of another. 634 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:37,840 Well, as his father, I am so grateful for the understanding that I have of the Atonement 635 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:47,440 of Jesus Christ that unconditionally overcomes the negatives that he and you and me and all 636 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,760 of us didn't choose. 637 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,520 He didn't choose fetal alcoholism to live with that his whole life. 638 00:46:54,520 --> 00:47:01,960 It has had negative implications and effects on his life throughout his life. 639 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:10,840 He's now 31 years old, and choices and decisions and the judgments that he's made are sometimes 640 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:17,800 affected because of how he's wired or how his brain works. 641 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:27,000 Scott, any negatives that come out of the negatives of the fall of Adam and Eve, spiritual 642 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:36,240 and physical death, all negatives are unconditionally covered by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 643 00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:43,920 As a father, as his father, it is so comforting to me to know that he will return to the presence 644 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:55,800 of God, number one, and number two, that all of the physical ailments, deficiencies, mentally, 645 00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:02,200 physically that have affected him in this life will be taken into consideration when 646 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:07,560 he's judged and the things that he did not choose and any negatives that came out of 647 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,400 the things that he didn't choose are covered unconditionally. 648 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,400 That's amazing. 649 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,400 You just answered my question, right? 650 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:21,000 I mean, so that my whole thought process around that was, is, yeah, this has ultimate effect 651 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,000 for us in the long run, in eternity. 652 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,600 How does that have effect on us now? 653 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:31,160 You just said, and I'm quoting you, it's so comforting to me. 654 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,040 It's so comforting to me to in and Dave, I've watched this. 655 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:41,400 I mean, you can't, you can't put into words the struggle that you and Chris and our whole 656 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:47,520 family in your behalf has, has, has been through because of the challenges that came because 657 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:54,640 of a decision of a teen mother that gave birth to one of our family members who we love, 658 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,640 who is our own. 659 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,320 I was going to say like our own, who is our own. 660 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:04,640 But I've seen that and to hear you say it's so comforting to me in that conversation or 661 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:10,360 as you're making this description or describing all of the horrible and challenging things 662 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,880 that's happened to your son and to hear you say it's so comforting to me, you know what 663 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:15,880 that is? 664 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:22,000 That is the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ alive and well today. 665 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:29,040 And having that experience, Scott, as a father, all of the pressure, the stress, the, the, 666 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,720 the, can I say, sorrow that sometimes we have experienced because of his decisions and choices 667 00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:42,120 and his inadequacies and deficiencies and to watch him get bullied and to watch him make 668 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:49,320 bad decisions and choices and eventually end up in prison as, as sad as those things have 669 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:57,960 been, Scott, honestly, through this child, I have learned probably more about the blessings 670 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,160 and the unconditional effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ than any of my other children. 671 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:13,080 In fact, I, I was interviewed once by Elder Neil L. Anderson, who spent an hour with me 672 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:20,720 interviewing me about my life and about my family and my situation, eventually inviting 673 00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:23,960 me to help him with a project. 674 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:29,280 And I remember when I, when he asked me about my children and he wanted to know about each 675 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,720 of them individually by name and their situation. 676 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:38,720 And I remember when I got to this, this child and I told him that I, we had adopted a son 677 00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:44,440 and that he had been born with these issues and that he was in prison. 678 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:50,320 I remember Elder Anderson saying, Oh, Brother Durfee, that's really interesting. 679 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,840 I think it's that I think it's because of him. 680 00:50:54,840 --> 00:51:00,480 It's because of him that you have learned so much about the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 681 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:08,240 And it's because of him that the Lord has prepared you to help me with this project. 682 00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:09,680 What a gift. 683 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,680 What a gift that young man, now a man has been in your life and in the, and Dave, that, 684 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,760 that didn't just affect your life, but because of that project that you worked on. 685 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,840 It has ripple effect that you can't even measure. 686 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:28,200 You can't even look out into eternity or even into the next several years and see the ripple 687 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:29,960 effect that that has had. 688 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:35,000 It's so interesting to me how Heavenly Father is so much in the details of our lives and 689 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:40,480 orchestrates stuff so far out ahead of us even that, you know, into our futures. 690 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:46,280 And as long as we're living righteously and striving hard, striving hard to live righteously 691 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,200 and using the full effects of the Atonement in our, in our lives, then that's when we 692 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,000 get to see the effects of the Atonement here and now. 693 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,360 And I really appreciate your sharing that experience. 694 00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,840 Well, it kind of goes back to the questions that were asked by those two concerned parents 695 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,760 and it really does. 696 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:08,040 We began this episode with, you know, I've known some parents, Scott, who have had wayward 697 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:15,880 children where it has been more painful to stay in, this is from their perspective, right, 698 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:21,300 that they feel that it is more painful to stay in the church with a wayward child than 699 00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:23,520 to just leave the church. 700 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:28,320 They feel like that because of their child and decisions they're making or because of, 701 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:35,400 uh, their deficiencies or their tendencies or their sins or whatever, they feel it's 702 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,800 too painful to stay in the church. 703 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,280 I, I just don't understand that. 704 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:51,960 I, I try to, but it seems to me that without the gospel of Jesus Christ, without understanding 705 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:59,480 the full effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, it would be miserable. 706 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:00,480 Yeah. 707 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,640 It would be totally miserable. 708 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:09,320 But if we could understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ, if we could study the scriptures, 709 00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:14,560 understand what the prophets have taught, understand the unconditional and conditional 710 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,600 effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives, which I'm looking forward to talking 711 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:26,920 about in, in the next future episodes, it would, it would strengthen us. 712 00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,560 It would, it would teach us. 713 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:35,960 It would bring us closer to Christ, not, not in spite of our wayward children, but because 714 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,680 because of them, because of our wayward children. 715 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,600 We should learn lessons through them about the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we can 716 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:45,600 learn any other way. 717 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,200 And I don't take any credit for that. 718 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:54,400 I, I just am grateful that somehow, some way the Lord was kind enough, merciful, gracious 719 00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:02,760 enough with me and probably a lot to do with my sweetheart and her compassion and love. 720 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:09,200 And because I taught seminary and institute for so long, Scott, I was kind of forced to 721 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,600 learn some of these lessons being in the scriptures so often. 722 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:20,000 But I'm just so grateful that instead of it turning me away or weakening because of wayward 723 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:28,280 child, of a wayward child or decisions of others or the sins of others, that instead 724 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:39,120 of weakening me, they strengthened me through the understanding, the powers and blessings 725 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,440 of the great Atonement of Jesus Christ. 726 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,400 Yeah, what a great blessing. 727 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,000 You know, the thing is too, is that there's not one of us that aren't wayward in our own 728 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,000 right. 729 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,440 You know, we are all the prodigal son. 730 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:55,760 We are all in some level and because of the fall, because of the spiritual and physical 731 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,720 death, we are all that wayward. 732 00:54:57,720 --> 00:54:59,360 We are all that prodigal. 733 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,720 We are all that person waiting to come back. 734 00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:06,880 And what a, what a great lesson, lesson it is that we get to learn when we, you know, 735 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,040 I think life is a laboratory for us to come here and to learn how to be more like him 736 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,880 so that one day we can. 737 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,080 So when we go back, we will have patterns and experiences under our belt that will allow 738 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:22,520 us in eternities to be better at whatever it is that we are called there to do. 739 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:27,720 And so, you know, as we are here and go through these experiences, what you just described, 740 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:34,120 your fatherly love for your son, for the experiences because of it, because of it and made you 741 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:39,920 a better teacher, more empathy, have a greater handle and relationship with the Atonement 742 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,320 of Jesus Christ and ultimately a greater relationship with Jesus Christ. 743 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,800 Because of that, what I heard you just described is what I think Heavenly Father would the 744 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,680 same attitude that he would have towards any and all of us. 745 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,480 We have to see ourselves that way too. 746 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,680 We can't see ourselves as I have wayward children and that's my identity. 747 00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:02,440 You know, we have to see ourselves as for who we really are too because we are all really 748 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,640 wayward in one way or another. 749 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,920 Otherwise, the effects of the Atonement would not be necessary in our lives. 750 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:13,640 I think that's an important thing for us to remember that, you know, as much as one or 751 00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:21,040 any of our children or all of our children may be not exactly on the path that we would 752 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:25,480 want them to be on, imagine how Heavenly Father must feel. 753 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,400 He must look down here and say, God, I wish you weren't on that path sometimes or, you 754 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,960 know, or whatever. 755 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:37,880 But because he knows the end from the beginning, because he is the omnipotent, the omniscient, 756 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,600 because of all those things, it's different. 757 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:46,840 But as we move into developing those things in our own lives as well through the Atonement 758 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:54,320 of Jesus Christ, through the Restoration and Redemption and the perfection, the perfect 759 00:56:54,320 --> 00:57:01,360 eventuality that will come through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all of those things in eternity 760 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:10,280 and today, and today can be made to have peace and be peaceful things in my life. 761 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:15,720 Not only that, but it should affect our choices and decisions. 762 00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:18,200 It should give us peace for sure, Scott. 763 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,400 It should give us greater confidence. 764 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:21,840 It should give us comfort. 765 00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:26,960 It should give us hope and healing and purpose. 766 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:35,080 But even beyond all of that that you just described, it should affect our decisions and our choices. 767 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,640 It should influence our behaviors. 768 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:46,160 And I know that it does because of the level of gratitude that we have for the Atonement 769 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,640 of Jesus Christ. 770 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:53,440 Gratitude is the beginning of desire. 771 00:57:53,440 --> 00:58:02,560 And maybe to end my part in this episode today, Scott, I just want to testify that I know 772 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:07,560 that God loves me, that He gave me His Son. 773 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:12,920 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth 774 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,000 in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 775 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:25,040 And knowing that through the great gift and Atonement of Jesus Christ, that I will return 776 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:32,000 to my heavenly home and see my Heavenly Father, who President Benson taught, we will be surprised 777 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,000 how familiar He appears to us. 778 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,760 I look forward to that day. 779 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,360 I'm grateful to know that that will happen. 780 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,440 I know that is true. 781 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,920 Unconditionally, all of God's children will return to His presence to be judged. 782 00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:52,080 And I'm grateful to know that we will all be resurrected, that these bodies are sacred, 783 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:59,280 that the Spirit in the body will be reunited, and that we will become immortals. 784 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:06,400 And those unconditional blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ fill me with gratitude. 785 00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,120 And that gratitude affects my desires. 786 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:16,200 And my desires ultimately determine my decisions and choices. 787 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:23,760 And I hope that you and me and that all of our listeners can come to a deeper understanding 788 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:31,320 and feel greater gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we may become one with 789 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:37,080 each other, one with our loved ones, and ultimately one with God. 790 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,120 Thanks, Dave. 791 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:40,680 This has been another great day. 792 00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,600 I love that we talk about this. 793 00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,120 This is where hope really springs eternal, literally. 794 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:53,160 This is where the hope really begins to spring eternal as we study and learn about the effects 795 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,160 of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, as we study and learn about the effects of the fall through 796 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:04,920 the spiritual and physical and spiritual and physical death combined, that in this life 797 01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,800 and in eternity that we can have ultimately joy. 798 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:15,780 We can have ultimately peace that in spite of and sometimes even because of our challenges, 799 01:00:15,780 --> 01:00:20,600 we can become closer to Him, Him being our Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ through 800 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:27,640 the Holy Ghost, that as we do those things, that we begin to transcend the trials of this 801 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:34,920 life, that the way we see things changes, that our love, our relationships with our 802 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:41,520 children, with our friends, with those with whom we associate are more genuine, more rewarding, 803 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:46,160 and have a way to propel us towards He who loves us all. 804 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:47,520 May we fill His love. 805 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,680 May you fill His love this weekend always. 806 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:51,680 That's our prayer. 807 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:52,680 That's always our prayer. 808 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:54,280 This has been a great day. 809 01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:58,160 Another opportunity for us to talk about things that have been so important to us. 810 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,240 Remember, He redeems us at gmail.com. 811 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:02,320 We love your comments. 812 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:03,960 We love your questions. 813 01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:08,400 We'll do our best to entertain as many as we possibly can here. 814 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,040 Once again, thanks to those of you who have participated. 815 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,600 Please share this with others and know that our love for you is real. 816 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,720 But more importantly, know that His love for you is real. 817 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,240 We pray that you feel that today and always. 818 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:37,600 Thanks for being with us.