Hi everybody and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood.
In this podcast we highlight the hope, healing and redemption that is available to all of
us through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
My name is Scott Durfee and it's my great pleasure today to also introduce my partner
in this project.
My name is Brother David Durfee.
Thanks Scott, nice to be here.
It's good to have you Dave.
We've got a lot of great fun things that we're going to be talking about today as we start
our approach into the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
But before we do that Dave, I wanted to get into a couple of real quick items of interest
here.
First off, there are a lot of listeners who are joining us along the way.
This will be podcast number seven.
I can't believe it's gone that fast but here we are podcast number seven.
If you haven't already listened to episodes one through six, that's okay.
Each of these podcasts are designed really to stand on their own with their own merits,
with their own value, with their own hope and healing, etc.
However, if you're able to combine them all and kind of put them together, we feel like
the experience might be more complete that way.
So if you haven't already done so, we invite you to at your leisure go back and listen
to episodes one through six as well.
This will be episode number seven and again, you don't have to go listen to one through
six before you listen to seven.
We're just inviting you to do that to complete the experience.
Also we want to just give a special thanks to all of you, our listeners, for listening,
for joining us here.
This has been a fantastic experience for both Dave and myself but we hope it has been for
you as well and through your emails.
And again, you can email us at heredeemsus.com.
We thank you for your emails, your comments, your questions.
We've had several.
A couple of those questions I have right here, Dave, let's just take a couple of minutes
and maybe address those.
Before I do, though, let's give a special shout out to Brent Saucer.
Thanks so much, Brent, for your words of encouragement.
We're excited to hear about your mission.
Brent's in Florida and we appreciate his feedback and comments.
Jeff Dillard in Washington, a father of a close friend of mine who I've served in leadership
positions within our ward.
Love your son, Jeff.
What a great man.
That means that you must be as well.
So thanks for your encouraging words from the two of you.
Among many others, there were others but we did want to pick a couple and just give a
special shout out.
Dave, I've got a couple of questions here.
These are important questions.
These are questions that probably a lot of parents, people have.
This first one has particular interest in the parental arena.
This comes from a concerned mom.
This sweet mom wants to know how to handle a situation with her son.
This mom and dad actually have a son who has struggled with many things.
There's a same sex attraction component that's attached to it as well, but he struggled with
many things and he's been in and out of his commitment to the gospel, to his commitment
to his covenants.
He's made covenants.
He's decided to set covenants aside and many things along those lines.
I'm going to read what the mom says.
I'm at a loss.
We've asked ourselves lately, why again?
Surely this is not how it's supposed to be and our hearts are broken.
What did we do wrong?
I want to say that again.
What did we do wrong?
That theme seems to be pretty constant with many folks in our society who are struggling
or who have other loved ones who may be struggling as well.
Surely, and I go back to the question here, surely this is not what our Heavenly Father
has planned.
How do we see our son the way Heavenly Father sees our son?
Dave, I think that's a question that we have the ability to maybe add some insight to.
Obviously, this is one that we'll be talking about as we go throughout each one of these
sessions and I think we'll get into more around these types of things as we go.
How would you initially start out counseling with or encouraging a mom in a situation like
this?
Well, it's really critical, Scott, to be able to see our children the way God sees them.
Certainly God isn't surprised by any of this.
The phrase, this isn't the way it's supposed to be kind of strikes me and I think, well,
what way is it supposed to be?
I don't think that we have any promises before we came here that things were going to be
easy, that things were going to be comfortable for us.
We've talked about that in past episodes and it strikes me that we all need to understand
that the scriptures are full of examples of great parents who had wayward children.
The father had lost one-third, right?
In the premortal existence, there was a war and one-third of his children were lost.
Nephi had some rebellious children.
Jacob had some sons who really struggled.
You can look throughout the scriptures, Joseph Smith, children didn't receive all the covenants
that they needed to have in this life to be an eternal family.
So I don't know quite how it's supposed to be, but the reality is that many of us are
going to struggle and that all families have problems and the great laboratory of life,
Scott, is a family.
This is where we experiment.
This is where we see failure.
This is where we try things over and over and over again.
This is a laboratory where we somehow learn by failure, where we can progress through
pain, where a family is a wonderful thing and it is supposed to be eternal.
I believe that they will be if we keep our covenants.
But I don't think we have to worry so much about our children and about our influence
on them as much as we need to remember that they are also God's children and that it is
God's responsibility, Scott, to change his children.
It is our responsibility as parents to love our children and to teach our children.
But ultimately, we cannot change them.
I had an experience years ago, a really close friend, a stake president in Iowa, who had
a daughter who really struggled with her faith, eventually lost her faith, and eventually
had her records removed from the church.
And he and his wife prayed for months, years, that God would change his daughter.
Please help us to change her.
This would be their prayer.
And one night, they were praying together and the same prayer helped us to change our
daughter.
And both of them had an impression and an experience and in the middle of their prayer, they opened
their eyes and they looked at each other and they said, did you hear that?
And what they had heard after praying for this for a long time was that they had heard
an impression or like a voice to their minds simultaneously.
Our responsibility is to love her.
I will change her.
With that perspective and that promise, it completely changed their relationship with
their daughter.
They said to each other, we can love her.
We can love her.
And they still felt some responsibility to teach her.
But based on the promise that they heard that night, that God would change her, they knew
that it was now just a matter of time.
And they continued to have a really sweet relationship with that girl who has not yet
come back, but who they believe and know eventually will.
And that their responsibility isn't to change her, their responsibility is to love her.
Right.
A lot of this has to go back to our identity.
Right.
And this is understanding who we are.
If we understand who we are, if I am, then they are.
If I am His, they are His.
And whose we are?
And whose we are.
That they belong to the Father.
They're His children too.
They belong to Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ died for Him or her too.
Right?
We need to remember whose we are.
They are of the covenant.
Whether they're baptized or not, because the parents have made covenants, that child is
in the covenant, born in the covenant.
So we need to remember not just who we are, but again, going back to previous episodes,
whose we are.
And then going back to previous episodes, if we strive to have the administration of
the Atonement of Jesus Christ active in our lives through the Holy Spirit, who is the
administrator of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
If we strive to have that, then there seems to be a peace even in potentially that turmoil.
Right?
And I think that even that turmoil can be a matter of perception.
Because there's nothing that's going on here that is permanently disqualifying anybody
at that point to go and be in Heavenly Father's presence forever.
I mean, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, this is a process.
This is a lifelong process that through the merits of Him, not our own, but through His
merits as we strive to have that His Spirit in our lives to reassure us, to reaffirm
our faith in that, then peace can come.
And I think that's a great advice.
Thanks, Dave.
Yeah.
Thank you, Scott.
So I know that if we will live by the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, allow the Spirit to administer
the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives, that we can have peace, no matter what our
children do or don't do.
And it's our responsibility to change, to allow God to change us.
Once I was praying for my son to be changed, help me to change my son.
I was saying the same prayer as my stake president friend because of my son's challenges.
And I was somewhat chastised by the Spirit in the middle of this prayer.
And the Spirit prompted me to, the impression was, you're praying for the wrong thing.
Stop praying that I change your son and start praying that I change you.
Well, I pause for a minute and then I change the language of my prayer.
And I believe that the language of prayer and the words that we use in prayer can really
make a difference.
My prayer after that was, please, help me to be a better dad.
Help me to see my son the way thou sees my son.
And when I began to offer that prayer, Scott, it not only changed me, but it changed my
relationship with my son.
And I was, I was, I know a better dad for him because I could see him differently and
because I trusted that God would had him and that God would change him.
And then as long as I was doing my responsibility to love him, it was, it was going to be fine.
I love that.
And it's only through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, through the hope and healing that comes
through the redemption of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we're able to facilitate
that and see that facilitation in our lives and in the lives of those that we love.
Another one.
And this will just be a brief, another quick question, email.
I'm going to edit this one a little bit just for the sake of its length.
I'm seeing that my Heavenly Father is aware of me.
This is what I need to hear.
There have been so many people that I've talked to in a struggle.
Now this person's been struggling with a situation that's been happening over the course of decades
and is coming to grips and able to now start working through some of it, Dave.
And now I go back to what she says, and I wonder what's wrong with me.
Why can't I get past this?
Why am I so weak?
I don't know how to use the Atonement.
That's something that I think I hear a lot in the, so my sweetheart Deb and I teach an
Institute class at YSA Stake at BYU.
And that's something that we hear there also quite a bit.
I don't know how to use the Atonement.
He must be so disappointed in me because I'm such a failure.
But in this past episode, and I think this is referring back to episode number four,
in this past episode, it's helped me some.
What you said about, as long as I can feel the Holy Ghost, then the Atonement is helping
me.
That's what I'll focus on.
That's what I'll expand.
And that seems to be helping me so much.
So I'm so grateful that others are able to start seeing the hope and healing that can
come through this as well.
Let me make comment about that communication or email, Scott.
Too many of us see the Atonement as a thing in and of itself.
I'm thinking about President Eyring, who taught this in a face-to-face to youth many years
ago.
I remember it was a broadcast from Palmyra.
He was in Palmyra.
And Eyring and Elder Holland, and they made this course correction, doctrinal correction.
Too many of us in the church see the Atonement as something in and of itself.
And this communication is, I don't know how the Atonement works, or I don't know how to
access the Atonement.
Well, that's not the way we should see it.
You can't separate the Atonement from Jesus Christ.
And the real question here is, how can I strengthen my relationship with Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ is the power behind the Atonement, and the Holy Ghost is the messenger, the administrator
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life.
So really, instead of being focused on the Atonement, we should be focused on a relationship,
a relationship with Jesus Christ.
How can I have a closer relationship with Him?
How can I receive His power in my life?
And how can I receive the Spirit to administer the effects of the Atonement, mercy, grace,
redemptive, and enabling powers in my life through the Holy Ghost?
So that's a course correction in a way of seeing the Atonement a little differently.
It doesn't stand alone.
It's not in and of itself a separate entity.
We shouldn't speak ever.
I know we still do sometimes, even you and me and others in the church.
We sometimes speak about the Atonement without attaching it to Jesus Christ.
And we need to do better.
President Nelson has told us that we need to do better with that.
There's no Atonement without Jesus Christ, and we shouldn't speak of it without it being
attached to Him and recognizing how it is administered into our lives through the Holy
Ghost.
Well, and that's the purpose.
I think, Dave, that's the reason that you and I decided as we were sitting at dinner
one night and you said to me, Scott, we should do a podcast.
I think that's what we had in mind was helping folks and ourselves understand that that is
the case and that is only through that the complete happiness and peace can come to the
hearts of men that can come to the hearts of those that we love, our children, our spouses,
and it can even come to the hearts of those that we may be in conflict with.
And that's the beauty of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, one of the many beauties of
the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
So Dave, we've gone through a lot of information, had a lot of really great experiences over
the last several episodes here.
Why don't you just take a second and kind of recap where we've been, kind of give us
an outline of or a lay of the land of where we are going today from here and then we'll
just take it from there.
Yeah, thank you, Scott.
So we spent quite a bit of time speaking about the premortal existence and about the plan
of redemption being presented there and the counter rebellion, the lies of Satan and how
he believed we didn't need redemption and the great war that broke out there.
We talked about that, I think, in one whole episode and it's really, I think, critical
in all that we talk about in all of these episodes is to understand that we lived as
spirits in a premortal existence as sons and daughters of God.
I know that doctrine is true.
Then we have spent several episodes up till today speaking about identity and who we are
and who's we are.
Not only are we sons and daughters of heavenly parents, but we are also children of Abraham
and Sarah, children of Adam and Eve.
And ultimately, we have been purchased through the blood of Christ and we belong to him.
Who's are we?
We belong to Jesus Christ who purchased us.
We belong to Abraham.
We belong to Adam and Eve.
The last few sessions we have talked about the fall of Adam and Eve and how that has
affected all of us.
Anyone that's born into this world is fallen.
And we talked about how we should celebrate that.
That was a critical piece of the plan of redemption that we be fallen, God knew that we would
be fallen.
That was part of his plan to help us to grow and to progress, to experience a celestial
experience, the pains and the sicknesses and sorrows of this world, to help us learn lessons,
to learn the lessons and to help us to rely on Jesus Christ.
So I hope that we are thanking Heavenly Father for the fall in our prayers that we're acknowledging
our weakness before him, which he has given us through the fall and that we're celebrating
our humanists and that we're kind of getting over ourselves and our self-righteousness.
We're just sinners, helping sinners.
We sin every day.
We need to repent every day.
It's a process and part of the plan of redemption.
And if one understands the fall, really truly understands the doctrine of the fall, they
will begin to appreciate and desire to understand the atonement of Jesus Christ and the need
that we have for a redeemer and Savior.
And that's where we're at today.
Yeah, and I think it's that complete and utter need, right, that we from this point forward
that we'll really be starting to establish how important and how really foundational
to all of this that that is.
So Dave, from the fall of Adam and Eve, there are a couple of things that came about, right?
And we're going to talk about those a little bit today, maybe right now is the time to
do that.
But there's a couple of negatives that came because of the fall.
Both of those have to do with death, the spiritual death and the physical death.
Would this be an appropriate time to kind of move into some discussion around that?
Yes, absolutely.
The fall was part of the plan.
I told this story about my wife who couldn't fully appreciate the atonement of Jesus Christ
until she understood the fall and I think I shared that story in the last episode or
two.
Some great things came about.
Scott has a result of the fall of Adam and Eve.
We believe that they consciously chose to do that in order to fulfill God's plan in
order that we might have children in order that we might have joy.
Adam fell that men might be and man is that he might have joy that we might learn the
difference between the bitter and the sweet.
So there were some positives that came out of the fall for sure.
But there were two major negatives.
Spiritual death and physical death.
Spiritual death is the separation from God and physical death is the separation of the
spirit from the body.
These two deaths are the two great negatives of the fall.
Now the fall of Adam and Eve affects all of us.
All of us in our lifetime, we experience spiritual death.
We experience it when we sin.
We experience it when we separate ourselves from God.
We experience it every day really because we live in a celestial world.
We don't live in the constant presence of God.
We have been separated from him and our heavenly homes.
So this is a world where spiritual death predominates and we all will experience physical death.
It affects all of us directly and indirectly to see family members pass away and to see
loved ones and to see the tragedies that we witness on the news are all examples of spiritual
death and physical death.
Jesus Christ's atonement, Scott, unconditionally, I want to stress that word again, unconditionally,
the atonement of Jesus Christ overcame for all mankind spiritual death and physical death.
All of us will return to the presence of God after we have been resurrected and the spirit
and the body are joined together.
Well, if we're talking about these two deaths, spiritual death and physical death, that seems
to be sort of an abstract concept, right?
To a degree, I mean, not completely, but to a degree, a spiritual death, I understand.
I am separated from my heavenly Father.
I'm not living in his presence.
Physical death, I realize my spirit will someday separate from my body, return to my
Father in heaven and my body will be placed in the ground or whatever.
I mean, that's the physical death.
But so what?
You know, what does that even mean?
So the spiritual death, what are some of the effects that we feel from the spiritual death
and what are some of the effects that we have or we get to or we are asked to experience
in this life because of the physical death and the spiritual death.
So let's just kind of maybe, and this will be a super high level summarization of what
maybe some of those things could be.
But for example, spiritual death, when we are feeling a lack of peace in our life and
anything in our life that's dark or anything that doesn't have to do with complete attachment
to and communion with our heavenly Father, we can attribute that to spiritual death.
So you know, those things can be like discouragement.
They could be lack of faith.
They could be a, I'm not sure about my future.
They can be fear.
You know, anytime that we're facing fear, that probably is because of our effects of
the spiritual death because fear and faith can't exist in the same place, right?
And so, you know, that's probably all coming from the spiritual death as well.
Well we live in a world of sin.
We're tainted by sin every day.
Almost moment by moment, we see the effects of it either as other sin against us or they
sin against our loved ones or we have inappropriate thoughts.
We have inappropriate emotions.
All of these celestial experiences that we have daily separate us from the full presence
of God.
We can enjoy the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We're so blessed and we should be so grateful that we have the gift of the Holy Ghost who
can be a constant companion for us, who can remind us, who can spiritually help us to
become more alive, but the fact is that we are separated from the presence of God because
of living in a celestial world and we are all tainted by sin daily.
And because of that separation, we experience those things that I mentioned among many,
many others.
Now we talk about the physical death, right?
So the physical death, so what about the physical death?
Well because of the physical death, we have anything that has to do with our body that's
messed up, that's not completely in alignment with health or whatever that comes from our
body, that is a direct result of our physical death that comes because of the fall of Adam
and Eve, the fall of us all.
And so what is attached to physical death?
Physical death can be anything like disease, any kind of cancer, any kind of deformity,
any kind of birth defect, any kind of anything that is physically challenging or creates
physical challenges, that is a direct result of the physical death.
And I would add not just physical, mental, mental illness, mental deficiencies, mental
challenges and emotional challenges, chemical imbalances, so many things associated with
the effects of the physical death, the blood, the corruptible part of us which carries disease
and sickness and some of those things, that's one of the negatives of the fall.
And the atonement of Jesus Christ God overcome these things that we did not choose which
are negative, spiritual death, meaning that we're all cut off from the presence of the
Lord and physical death, meaning we all experience physical, mental deficiencies.
All of that will be unconditionally overcome by the atonement of Jesus Christ as we are
resurrected to perfected bodies of flesh and bone, as we are resurrected and returned
to the presence of God, unconditionally we become spiritually alive when we return back
to His presence.
Now that doesn't mean that we'll stay there, that we'll live there, that we'll dwell there,
we know the scripture that says no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God.
That's true, amen.
You can't maybe dwell there if you've been wicked here, but you will return to the presence
of God and unconditionally because of Christ and His atonement all mankind will return
to His presence.
This is taught over and over again in the Book of Mormon.
It's taught really beautifully in one place in the Bible in 1 Corinthians chapter 15
which we have read before that as in Adam all die even so in Christ shall all be made
alive spiritually and physically.
I love the scripture that is in Helaman in the Book of Mormon.
Samuel the Lamanite teaches this so clearly that I would like to read a few verses if
I could because I think that it's important to understand that we're all going to return
to the presence of God, Scott.
Some people think that if I'm wicked enough I'll just go to hell, I won't pass go, I
won't collect $200 and I'll just go to jail.
It's not going to be that simple.
Those who choose to live a wicked life here are going to return to the presence of God.
Those who live a righteous life here, they're going to return to the presence of God all
to be judged.
I think that really changes my behaviors when I think about that.
I think about it when I sin.
I think about it when I'm doing good.
It's just I think critical that we give this more thought and think about the afterlife
and how Jesus Christ overcame these two deaths.
So this is Helaman chapter 14.
I'm going to read verses 15, 16, and 17.
Speaking of Jesus Christ and his atonement.
For behold, he surely must die, that salvation may come.
Yea it behooveeth him, and becomeeth expedient, that he dyeth Jesus Christ, to bring to pass
the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought back into the presence
of the Lord.
Yea behold, this death of Jesus Christ.
Beingeth to pass, I'm going to add unconditionally, the resurrection and redeemeth all mankind
from the first death, that spiritual death, for all mankind by the fall of Adam, being
cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal
and to things spiritual.
But behold, verse 17, the resurrection of Christ, redeemeth mankind.
Yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
Sons of perdition, murders, anyone that's got a physical body, anyone that's been born
on this earth's gut, men, women, and children will return to the presence of God after the
resurrection, the universal resurrection, to be judged.
I used to ask my students, so what?
What does that matter?
And they would struggle a little bit to give really meaningful answers.
And my simple response to that was, well, how would it change your behavior if you thought
about that more often?
How would that change your behavior?
It changes mine.
Changes mine too.
The other thing too, I think that as we talk about this, and it's so important that we
understand that we will return to the presence of God, it's so important that we do understand
that our physical bodies will be made whole.
It's so important that those spiritual and physical deaths will ultimately be overcome.
But what about now?
How do these things affect us now?
How does so?
We talked about the physical death, we talked about the spiritual death, and a few of the
things that are attributed to that.
There are more, but a few of the things that are attributed to that.
There's another one that I want to talk about for just a second, and that has kind of a
combination of the spiritual and the physical death.
Any type of addiction falls into that.
Any type of addiction is a lack of spirit in a life and is obviously a physical death
phenomenon.
Because what is happening here is because of the physical body, the addiction, the craving
becomes alive and overrides everything spiritual in our lives.
And because of a spiritual lack, the physical body is allowed to do that.
So through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I see not just ultimately, not just when we
return to His presence, not just when that final judgment and assignment of our eternal
dwelling is handed out or that we participate in, rather.
The thing about those types of things is this is, the so what for me on this is, so what?
The physical death and the spiritual death will ultimately be overcome.
So what?
I want to know about right now.
And so many of us feel that way.
And I think we all feel that way to some extent or another.
So what about right now?
Well, we've already answered that.
We answered it in great detail last week.
We even answered it as we were addressing one of the questions that was sent to us today.
How does it have, how does this take effect in my life?
Well, the way that this takes effect in my life and I don't necessarily maybe overcome
or conquer the physical death, I may not overcome or conquer the spiritual death, but I get
relief from that sometimes more often than others, sometimes with more intensity or greater
magnitude than at other times.
But when I get relief from the results or the effects of the physical and the spiritual
death, the Atonement is working in my life through the administration of it, through
the Comforter, the Holy Ghost.
Yeah.
And you know, Scott, what an amazing gift that we have a member of the Godhead, the
Holy Ghost as the third member of the Godhead who wants to be with us, who God has sent,
who doesn't have a body so that he can be present with us so that he can influence us
so that he can be our companion, our Comforter.
What an amazing gift.
And so for those who will receive the ordinances and covenants of the gospel, now I know everyone
on this earth can receive the power of the Holy Ghost, can receive answers to prayers,
inspiration, even revelation and direction in their life through the power of the Holy
Ghost, that those who are willing to make ordinances, receive ordinances and make covenants
with God can receive a third member of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost, to be their constant
companion.
Well, what a blessing.
But we still are affected by the things of this world and will not fully come back into
the presence of God until after this life.
There have been a few exceptions to that, like the brother of Jared in the Book of Mormon
who completely went back into the presence of the pre-mortal Jesus Christ and in that
great chapter in Ether chapter three where he went beyond the fall fully back into the
presence of the Lord.
That's a pretty unusual, rare, special experience that has been experienced by probably only
a few individuals on this earth.
But you're right, the spiritual and physical death are really connected in this life, Scott.
So much of our sins and the sins of others cause physical challenges.
We have the example of Zezram in the Book of Mormon who because of his sins and his lying
spirit becomes physically ill and sick.
I know that they are connected.
Those two deaths can oftentimes be connected in this life.
And addiction is a great example of that.
Yeah, well, and there are other things as well.
It just happens to be that's my experience.
That's my background.
That's my kind of vantage point, if you will.
But I know that I'm not the only one that has that vantage point.
And it's so vast, right?
I mean, my addiction is one thing, but the adict not is was, which is at bay now because
I get a spiritual reprieve, I mean a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition only.
But I know that that's the case because there's some steps.
Anytime we enter or anybody engages in a 12 step program, and it doesn't matter the type
of 12 step program, whether it's for chemicals, whether it's for behaviors.
And when I say behaviors, what kind of behaviors do you mean, Scott?
Like eating disorders or sexual behaviors or addictions or pornography addictions or
things along those lines.
And then we have chemical addictions.
We have alcohol, we have drugs, we have many, many other things.
Then we have other behavioral addictions.
One of the things that's really surprising me came to light, and I've been around addiction
recovery for 23 plus years involved, not just on the outskirts, but involved.
And this was a new one to me when in our YSA, our Young Single Adult Institute class that
Devon and I teach.
It's been brought to our attention that there are new behavioral addictions around gaming.
People are just spending so much time on their computer that they lose detachment or they
become detached rather from everything.
And that's one of the definitions of addiction is that it is a lack of connection and especially
a lack of connection to our Heavenly Father.
Any of the 12 step programs that use these 12 steps use basically the same 12 steps.
The first three steps really kind of speak to the things that we've been talking about.
The first step is that we admitted that we were powerless, that our lives have become
unmanageable.
Powerless over what?
Powerless over alcohol, powerless over sexual addictions, powerless over drugs, powerless
over whatever it may be.
Our lives have become unmanageable because of our addiction, because we can't control
that component of our lives.
That's number one.
Number two, we believed.
We came to believe that power greater than ourselves could restore us, could restore
us to sanity.
And number three, we decided.
We made a decision to turn our will in our life over the care of God as we understand
Him.
So, you know, in the gospel of Jesus Christ, what I have just described is a broken heart
and a contrite spirit.
A broken heart and a contrite spirit.
Number one, I acknowledged my own nothingness, His greatness, His power, His all love, all
loving kindness.
Number two, I believed that He could make that restoration for me real.
And as we come to make that belief, that obviously has to be based on a testimony of whatever.
It has to be based on our identity.
It has to be based on the things that we've talked about in coming to know Him, spending
time with Him.
That's how we come to that belief.
So number one, acknowledge number two, believe in number three, we make a decision to turn
our will in our life over the care of God and to understand Him.
And as we understand Him and that understanding really does increase as we make that effort
to do so.
So, these three things are really kind of the reader's digest version of how we get
started in moving towards overcoming the effects of the spiritual and physical death.
And they're all laid out for us right there.
And heart, contract, spirit.
Yeah, well, it sounds like to me listening to you describe those things that it all comes
down to a relationship.
It all comes down to really knowing who we are, who's we are.
It comes down to a relationship with God, doing all those things and turning our will
over to Him is to me about a relationship.
And this whole idea of the at one month, at one month of Jesus Christ overcomes the separation.
Separation is a lonely word.
And the at one month brings us back to ourselves.
It unites our spirit and our bodies here and now and will in the resurrection.
We become one.
You know, I think that that's, I think some people here, their spirits and their bodies
are in some ways couldn't be further apart and tell their dead.
I think it's important that we have this unity that we recognize the spirit and we try to
have unity in the spirit and the body.
That we have unity with the Godhead that we try to overcome the separation from the Lord
by receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost in our life by, by focusing on what can I do
to have the spirit of the Holy Ghost in my life?
What can I do to return and live eternally in the presence of God?
It all comes down to relationships and death is about separation.
And the at one month of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes spiritual separation and death and
it overcomes physical separation and death.
That's great news.
That's great news for us as individuals.
That's great news for us as sons and daughters of heavenly parents who love us and have given
us a way to come home.
But there's also relief and there's also comfort in this for the moms out there.
Like the question that we read earlier, my son's struggling.
How do I see him like Heavenly Father sees him?
Well, these types of understandings and these types of witnesses of the spirit that are
in hand with these understandings is the spirit witnesses unto us the truthfulness of the things
that we're talking about, which it will if we seek with pure intent and with a sincere
heart, which it will as the spirit witnesses those things to us, it should and does indeed
give us hope and ease in our life, especially as we find concerning, especially as we find
concerning the things with our kids and with those that we love so much.
We watch those that we love and sometimes I've said it, you've said it, I know you've
said it.
You've probably said it.
I wish I could take that from you.
Whatever it is that somebody's going through, I wish there was a way sometimes that I could
take that from them.
And we say that in all sincerity.
Well, there is a way that we can support folks, our family and our friends, those that we
love, those that we have stewardship over, whatever the case may be.
There is a way and there are ways for us to show Heavenly Father's love and acceptance
and accept it and what's happening in their lives to as acceptance in our own lives through
the Atonement of Jesus Christ, through the hope of the restoration of all things, through
the hope of the restoration of my relationship as it once was with my Heavenly Father, meaning
face to face, obviously deeper because of the experiences that I've gone through here,
but as it was in the beginning, face to face in a loving and a pure situation.
We're only beginning to touch on the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in this episode.
You know, unconditionally, it overcomes spiritual and physical death.
But there are other aspects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ that are covered unconditionally.
For example, Scott, we adopted a son who was born with fetal alcoholism, who's bipolar,
who has Asperger's, and I don't think he chose that.
That was something that was the result of the fall.
His mother, choosing to, his biological mother, choosing to sin, being a drug addict, had
consequences on my son's life that may be, even though we've prayed for a miracle, they
may be irreversible in this life because of the fall, and he has been terribly affected
because of the sins of another.
Well, as his father, I am so grateful for the understanding that I have of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ that unconditionally overcomes the negatives that he and you and me and all
of us didn't choose.
He didn't choose fetal alcoholism to live with that his whole life.
It has had negative implications and effects on his life throughout his life.
He's now 31 years old, and choices and decisions and the judgments that he's made are sometimes
affected because of how he's wired or how his brain works.
Scott, any negatives that come out of the negatives of the fall of Adam and Eve, spiritual
and physical death, all negatives are unconditionally covered by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
As a father, as his father, it is so comforting to me to know that he will return to the presence
of God, number one, and number two, that all of the physical ailments, deficiencies, mentally,
physically that have affected him in this life will be taken into consideration when
he's judged and the things that he did not choose and any negatives that came out of
the things that he didn't choose are covered unconditionally.
That's amazing.
You just answered my question, right?
I mean, so that my whole thought process around that was, is, yeah, this has ultimate effect
for us in the long run, in eternity.
How does that have effect on us now?
You just said, and I'm quoting you, it's so comforting to me.
It's so comforting to me to in and Dave, I've watched this.
I mean, you can't, you can't put into words the struggle that you and Chris and our whole
family in your behalf has, has, has been through because of the challenges that came because
of a decision of a teen mother that gave birth to one of our family members who we love,
who is our own.
I was going to say like our own, who is our own.
But I've seen that and to hear you say it's so comforting to me in that conversation or
as you're making this description or describing all of the horrible and challenging things
that's happened to your son and to hear you say it's so comforting to me, you know what
that is?
That is the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ alive and well today.
And having that experience, Scott, as a father, all of the pressure, the stress, the, the,
the, can I say, sorrow that sometimes we have experienced because of his decisions and choices
and his inadequacies and deficiencies and to watch him get bullied and to watch him make
bad decisions and choices and eventually end up in prison as, as sad as those things have
been, Scott, honestly, through this child, I have learned probably more about the blessings
and the unconditional effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ than any of my other children.
In fact, I, I was interviewed once by Elder Neil L. Anderson, who spent an hour with me
interviewing me about my life and about my family and my situation, eventually inviting
me to help him with a project.
And I remember when I, when he asked me about my children and he wanted to know about each
of them individually by name and their situation.
And I remember when I got to this, this child and I told him that I, we had adopted a son
and that he had been born with these issues and that he was in prison.
I remember Elder Anderson saying, Oh, Brother Durfee, that's really interesting.
I think it's that I think it's because of him.
It's because of him that you have learned so much about the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
And it's because of him that the Lord has prepared you to help me with this project.
What a gift.
What a gift that young man, now a man has been in your life and in the, and Dave, that,
that didn't just affect your life, but because of that project that you worked on.
It has ripple effect that you can't even measure.
You can't even look out into eternity or even into the next several years and see the ripple
effect that that has had.
It's so interesting to me how Heavenly Father is so much in the details of our lives and
orchestrates stuff so far out ahead of us even that, you know, into our futures.
And as long as we're living righteously and striving hard, striving hard to live righteously
and using the full effects of the Atonement in our, in our lives, then that's when we
get to see the effects of the Atonement here and now.
And I really appreciate your sharing that experience.
Well, it kind of goes back to the questions that were asked by those two concerned parents
and it really does.
We began this episode with, you know, I've known some parents, Scott, who have had wayward
children where it has been more painful to stay in, this is from their perspective, right,
that they feel that it is more painful to stay in the church with a wayward child than
to just leave the church.
They feel like that because of their child and decisions they're making or because of,
uh, their deficiencies or their tendencies or their sins or whatever, they feel it's
too painful to stay in the church.
I, I just don't understand that.
I, I try to, but it seems to me that without the gospel of Jesus Christ, without understanding
the full effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, it would be miserable.
Yeah.
It would be totally miserable.
But if we could understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ, if we could study the scriptures,
understand what the prophets have taught, understand the unconditional and conditional
effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives, which I'm looking forward to talking
about in, in the next future episodes, it would, it would strengthen us.
It would, it would teach us.
It would bring us closer to Christ, not, not in spite of our wayward children, but because
because of them, because of our wayward children.
We should learn lessons through them about the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we can
learn any other way.
And I don't take any credit for that.
I, I just am grateful that somehow, some way the Lord was kind enough, merciful, gracious
enough with me and probably a lot to do with my sweetheart and her compassion and love.
And because I taught seminary and institute for so long, Scott, I was kind of forced to
learn some of these lessons being in the scriptures so often.
But I'm just so grateful that instead of it turning me away or weakening because of wayward
child, of a wayward child or decisions of others or the sins of others, that instead
of weakening me, they strengthened me through the understanding, the powers and blessings
of the great Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Yeah, what a great blessing.
You know, the thing is too, is that there's not one of us that aren't wayward in our own
right.
You know, we are all the prodigal son.
We are all in some level and because of the fall, because of the spiritual and physical
death, we are all that wayward.
We are all that prodigal.
We are all that person waiting to come back.
And what a, what a great lesson, lesson it is that we get to learn when we, you know,
I think life is a laboratory for us to come here and to learn how to be more like him
so that one day we can.
So when we go back, we will have patterns and experiences under our belt that will allow
us in eternities to be better at whatever it is that we are called there to do.
And so, you know, as we are here and go through these experiences, what you just described,
your fatherly love for your son, for the experiences because of it, because of it and made you
a better teacher, more empathy, have a greater handle and relationship with the Atonement
of Jesus Christ and ultimately a greater relationship with Jesus Christ.
Because of that, what I heard you just described is what I think Heavenly Father would the
same attitude that he would have towards any and all of us.
We have to see ourselves that way too.
We can't see ourselves as I have wayward children and that's my identity.
You know, we have to see ourselves as for who we really are too because we are all really
wayward in one way or another.
Otherwise, the effects of the Atonement would not be necessary in our lives.
I think that's an important thing for us to remember that, you know, as much as one or
any of our children or all of our children may be not exactly on the path that we would
want them to be on, imagine how Heavenly Father must feel.
He must look down here and say, God, I wish you weren't on that path sometimes or, you
know, or whatever.
But because he knows the end from the beginning, because he is the omnipotent, the omniscient,
because of all those things, it's different.
But as we move into developing those things in our own lives as well through the Atonement
of Jesus Christ, through the Restoration and Redemption and the perfection, the perfect
eventuality that will come through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all of those things in eternity
and today, and today can be made to have peace and be peaceful things in my life.
Not only that, but it should affect our choices and decisions.
It should give us peace for sure, Scott.
It should give us greater confidence.
It should give us comfort.
It should give us hope and healing and purpose.
But even beyond all of that that you just described, it should affect our decisions and our choices.
It should influence our behaviors.
And I know that it does because of the level of gratitude that we have for the Atonement
of Jesus Christ.
Gratitude is the beginning of desire.
And maybe to end my part in this episode today, Scott, I just want to testify that I know
that God loves me, that He gave me His Son.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth
in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
And knowing that through the great gift and Atonement of Jesus Christ, that I will return
to my heavenly home and see my Heavenly Father, who President Benson taught, we will be surprised
how familiar He appears to us.
I look forward to that day.
I'm grateful to know that that will happen.
I know that is true.
Unconditionally, all of God's children will return to His presence to be judged.
And I'm grateful to know that we will all be resurrected, that these bodies are sacred,
that the Spirit in the body will be reunited, and that we will become immortals.
And those unconditional blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ fill me with gratitude.
And that gratitude affects my desires.
And my desires ultimately determine my decisions and choices.
And I hope that you and me and that all of our listeners can come to a deeper understanding
and feel greater gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we may become one with
each other, one with our loved ones, and ultimately one with God.
Thanks, Dave.
This has been another great day.
I love that we talk about this.
This is where hope really springs eternal, literally.
This is where the hope really begins to spring eternal as we study and learn about the effects
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, as we study and learn about the effects of the fall through
the spiritual and physical and spiritual and physical death combined, that in this life
and in eternity that we can have ultimately joy.
We can have ultimately peace that in spite of and sometimes even because of our challenges,
we can become closer to Him, Him being our Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ through
the Holy Ghost, that as we do those things, that we begin to transcend the trials of this
life, that the way we see things changes, that our love, our relationships with our
children, with our friends, with those with whom we associate are more genuine, more rewarding,
and have a way to propel us towards He who loves us all.
May we fill His love.
May you fill His love this weekend always.
That's our prayer.
That's always our prayer.
This has been a great day.
Another opportunity for us to talk about things that have been so important to us.
Remember, He redeems us at gmail.com.
We love your comments.
We love your questions.
We'll do our best to entertain as many as we possibly can here.
Once again, thanks to those of you who have participated.
Please share this with others and know that our love for you is real.
But more importantly, know that His love for you is real.
We pray that you feel that today and always.
Thanks for being with us.