Hello, everybody, and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood, a podcast where we discuss
hope healing and redemption through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
My name is Scott Durfee and it's my pleasure to introduce my partner in this project,
Brother David Durfee.
Say hi, Dave.
Good morning, everyone.
Hope you're all doing well.
And I look forward to talking about this important subject today.
As am I.
Just so you know, I want to give a little background on David here.
David, of course, is my uncle, for those of you who don't know, kind of a big brother
figure for me, but that's not what qualifies him to do what we're doing here.
Dave's somebody obviously of great influence in my life and in the life of many, many,
many people.
He's spent many years, even actually decades, in many leadership positions in the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Currently is a ordained patriarch in the church.
He has served in stake presidencies and bishoprics and mission presidencies even and things along
those lines.
But in addition to that has spent, I think, the better part of four decades in the church
education system where he has absolutely influenced not just students, but other instructors.
And I might even go out on a limb here and say has influenced them in ways that very
few can, especially when it comes to understanding and covering ourselves with the Atonement
of Jesus Christ.
So we're excited about that today.
We just do a real quick couple of housekeeping items here.
Our email address is heredeemsusatgmail.com.
He redeemsusatgmail.com.
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We encourage you to send us emails, ask us questions.
If you have stories that may go along with the things that we're talking about here,
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All right, let's recap just real quick last week.
We began our discussion on the fall of Adam and Eve.
As we did that, we began to uncover some of the wonderful, wonderful blessings that are
extended to us because of the fall of Adam and Eve.
And of course, the most important blessing that is extended to us because of the fall
of Adam and Eve and the fall of us always the Atonement of Jesus Christ so that we can
be redeemed so that we can have all of the blessings that's been promised to us as we
go through this life in a mortal, go through this mortal life in the way that we do.
So I think to do that, what we're going to do, I want to just kind of ask us all, you
know, when was the last time?
I think David has asked this of me.
I know he's asked it and he may have asked it on the last.
I should know this may have asked it on the last podcast, but when was the last time?
And this is the question I want us to ask ourselves.
When was the last time we actually in prayer gave thanks to our Father in heaven for the
fall of Adam and Eve?
Now think that through.
When was the last time you're so you're saying, Scott, when was the last time I thanked him
for my difficulties?
When was the last time I thanked him for the things in this life that are keep me from
filling his spirit, etc.
And yeah, that is what I'm asking you to do.
Now if we turn in the Book of Mormon to the Book of Ether chapter 12 verse 27, and I'm
just going to read the verse and we'll take it from here.
And if men come on to me, I will show them their weakness.
I give unto men weakness that they may be humble and my grace is sufficient for all men that
humble themselves before me.
For if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things
become strong unto them.
So Dave, that poses a interesting concept and interesting take on, you know, the fall, the
difficulties that we're facing it almost looks like that Heavenly Father has given
us those things on purpose.
Dave, thank you, Scott.
When the Lord says in this scripture through Moroni, Moroni is the one writing this as
he gives a little documentary or commentary on the on the plates of ether.
And he says that I give unto men weakness, in other words, the Lord gives unto us weakness.
I think he's really talking about the fall.
And he's saying I give unto men the fall.
I, I'm grateful for your question, Scott, about when is the last time we thank God for
the fall?
I remember that when I did that several years ago now, I'd asked that question came to my
mind as I was teaching a class once, and I asked the students, when's the last time you
thank God for the fall?
When's the last time you thank God for the weakness he gave you?
And nobody raised their hands, of course.
And I thought to myself, and neither have I.
And it was within probably the next few days that I did that.
And it was an elaborating experience for me.
I say it opened up something in me.
It helped me to understand why I needed so badly to appreciate the fall, not not just
understand it, but to be grateful for it, and to express that openly to my Heavenly Father,
recognizing that that's part of the plan of redemption, that without the fall that there
would, that there would be no redemption.
And I'm thinking of a quote by C.S. Lewis right now who said that God is not merely
mending, not simply restoring a status quo.
He said that redeemed humanity is to be something more glorious than unfallen humanity would
have ever been.
Let me say that again, that last sentence.
Reemed humanity is to be something more glorious than unfallen humanity would have ever been.
And I hope that today we can discuss that question, Scott, how so?
How is it that redeemed humanity is greater or more glorious than unfallen humanity would
have ever been?
So maybe we can talk about that and help one another and help our listeners to understand
why that's true.
Well, so Dave, let's go back to that quote, for God is not merely mending, not simply
restoring a status quo.
So that's telling me then that he's, you know, and this is just an observation by a really
smart philosopher, C.S. Lewis, writer, author.
But this is an interesting observation that he's able to make here for he's not merely
mending, not simply restoring a status quo.
Redeemed humanity is something more glorious than fallen humanity.
Then unfallen.
Then unfallen, sorry, I read that wrong, then unfallen humanity could have ever been.
So by goodness, you know, I think that as we read that is, I know the first time that
I heard that or considered that concept per se.
And I know probably others have the same feeling was like, okay, that's a bit of a conundrum
here.
How does that, how can we shake that out and make any sense of that?
It wasn't part of the plan that we remain in the Garden of Eden that Adam and Eve remain
there or that we, that we go back to that state in, in mortality right away.
The earth will be restored to that paradicycle glory when it becomes a terrestrial kingdom
and when this after the Savior comes.
But up until then, for over 6000 years now, this mortal, telestial world has received
spirits from the pre-mortal existence.
And it was all part of the plan that as soon as they were born, that they experienced spiritual
death being separated from God and that the seeds of physical death were planted in them,
they became flesh and blood corruptible and that there would be spiritual and physical
death and all of the pains and sufferings and trials and tribulations and sins and sorrows
that accompany mortality.
I love the way, you know, it's amazing to me that C.S. Lewis, who is Anglican in his
faith, that he understood this by just using the New Testament.
And I think it's, it may be primarily based upon this scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter
15.
Paul taught this so clearly, Scott, for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall
all be made alive.
So Paul saying, because of Adam, all are going to die, death came into the world, he's speaking
spiritually and physically.
And because of Christ, all shall be made alive.
Because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, he unconditionally, Scott, overcame spiritual
death because after the resurrection, we are all going to return to the presence of God.
We'll talk more about that when we speak about the powers and blessings and effects of the
atonement of Jesus Christ in our life.
And he unconditionally overcame physical death because of the resurrection.
So the atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes the two negative, big negatives
of the fall of Adam and Eve, which is spiritual death and physical death.
And then there's one more verse, verse 1 Corinthians 15, this is verse 23.
But every man in his own order, Christ the firstfruits, afterward they are Christ at
his coming, then cometh the end when he shall be delivered up to God, even the Father, when
he shall put down all rule, all authority, and all power.
So I just think that it's amazing that using just the New Testament, that C.S. Lewis came
up with this idea that redeemed humanity is more glorious than unfallen humanity.
The Book of Mormon spends so much time, so many witnesses, so many verses on how important
the fall is in the plan of redemption, that we are all lost.
This is like a dozen times in the scriptures, Scott.
Starting with Lehi.
Lehi taught it, it's taught throughout the Book of Mormon that because of the fall of
Adam and Eve, all are lost, all are sinful, all are carnal, all have become in a state,
and I say state, not trait.
We are inherently, I think we said this last time, we are inherently good because we are
sons and daughters of God, but we are naturally evil, as the brother of Jared, we quoted that
scripture last time, that because of the fall, our natures are evil continually, but our
spirits are inherently good, righteous, we fought a war, we defended the Atonement of
Jesus Christ in the premortal existence, and that's the key to us overcoming mortality.
So I just think it's really important that our listeners and that each of us understand
that without the fall of Adam and Eve, and the fall of you and me, because we're all
fallen, we're all lost, we're all sinners, without really knowing that, and without being
grateful for it, without appreciating it, we may not fully appreciate the atonement
of Jesus Christ, and that makes all the difference.
Dave, I don't know, maybe 10 years or so ago, my sweetheart Deb and I were facilitating
addiction recovery meetings for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints addiction
recovery program, and we were at a building, it was a Sunday afternoon, this gentleman walks
in, big guy.
I mean, when he came through the door frame, the door frame just darkened, he was just
a big mountain of a man, and he didn't look all that refined.
He had tattoos all the way up his neck and even onto his face and behind his ears, all
down his arms.
He had on shorts that day, I remember, and his legs were covered with tattoos, piercings
everywhere.
What I have just described is obviously, by using those words like tattoos and piercings
and stuff, obviously a cultural norm, and I'm not making judgment on any of that, what
all I'm doing is trying to paint a picture and create a feeling and essence of what's
going on in this experience.
He starts sharing, it comes his turn to share, and I remember, and so does Deb, we talked
about it just the other day, we talk about it frequently, in fact, we bring this up when
either of us or both of us get an opportunity to share our experience, strength and hope
in that environment.
We share this story sometimes because it's so powerful, but this guy sitting in this
chair, it came his turn and he told us that he had just gotten out of prison, just released
from federal prison, and he began to cry.
He told us his name, told us a little bit of experience, told us that he had been incarcerated
for multiple decades, and that while he was there, that something had happened to him
where he began to get a glimpse of who he was.
And so he began to see himself behind all this mask, all of this stuff that was put
on the outside of his temple, his body temple, so to speak, to send a message or to whatever.
But as he did this, and he began to cry, the only thing I can really remember him saying
is, is I know my Heavenly Father loves me.
I know my Heavenly Father loves me.
And all of these experiences that I've been through, he says, if I told you that I didn't
regret them, then I wouldn't be rehabilitated because I do regret what I've done.
I regret all of it.
But I know that because of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and through Christ's atonement,
that those things are made right, and made right.
And what he said is, in that almost a born again experience, that when he felt that forgiveness,
he felt it.
It was, ah, I feel my Father's love.
I am not who I have thought I was all this time.
And he began to be grateful for the path that his life had taken him down, which was obviously
a result, direct result of the fall.
Well, thank you, Scott, for sharing that.
President Ezra Taft Benson used to say, I remember when he said this in a BYU devotional,
it is always better to prepare and prevent than to repair and repent.
Amen.
I believe that.
But the truth of it is, Scott, none of us can prepare enough, and none of us can prevent
sin from being a part of our life as mortals, either because of our personal sins, or because
of the sins of others having some effect on us, or others even sinning against us.
So while it's true that we need to do better, we always seek improvement, we don't want
to sin, we cannot eliminate sin from our lives.
We are tainted by it every day.
There's not a day that goes by that we don't need to repent.
And I'm so thankful for the brethren and President Nelson, who's continually teaching and, and
encouraging us to repent daily.
And every time they say it, I think of the Prophet Joseph Smith, who said daily repentance
is not to be trifled with, meaning not that we shouldn't repent daily, but that we shouldn't
take it casually.
The point of your story, I think, really though, is that without the fall of Adam and Eve, without
your fall, without my fall, we would not feel the need for Redeemer, or the love that we
have for Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, and the plan of redemption, our fathers, heavenly
fathers, plan of redemption and his sacrifice in giving us his Son.
Ultimately, we would not have the same degree of love and the same degree of faith in, and
the same degree of dependence upon Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer and the Father's
plan of redemption.
Yeah.
So then if you're putting it that way, then maybe just maybe understanding the fall was
part of the plan so that the Atonement of Jesus Christ could come about.
Maybe that should make us approach our humaneness, our natural man.
Maybe that can help us.
Well we need to celebrate our humaneness.
We need to celebrate it.
We need to accept our humaneness.
We need to accept the fact that we will never be good enough in this life, and that's the
point of this story about Chris that I'll share.
I came home from work, this one, we lived in Minnesota, and the kids were kind of running
around and our children were still quite young.
And I said, so where's Chris?
Where's mom?
And they said, she's upstairs crying.
So I went upstairs and carefully opened the door of our bedroom, and she's laying on the
bed face down, weeping.
And I said, sweetheart.
What's wrong?
And I remember the look on her face when she turned around and she looked at me and in
frustration and some despondency, she says, David, I will never be good enough.
Well, wow, I looked at this, I tried to feel what she was feeling and tried to hear what
she was saying, and I wasn't being cavalier or flippant about my response.
But I remember just standing there putting out my arms and saying, welcome to the club,
none of us will ever be good enough.
That's why we needed a redeemer, a savior.
And if she were here, and I wish she were, could tell her side of the story, it was like
a thousand lights went on in her mind.
Like a long prayer had been answered for her.
And she realized that it was part of the plan that in this life, she would never be good
enough.
But because the savior was good enough, because the savior did live a perfect life, a sinless
life that because of his atoning sacrifice, that she could be good enough, that it was
part of the plan that in this life, none of us will be good enough.
Like King Benjamin told those who had just been forgiven of their sins, scripture we
read last week, that remember you unworthy creatures, we're all unworthy, we're all sinners,
none of us will be good enough.
Recognizing that for Chris, and recognizing that for each of us as we come to know that,
feel that, wrestle with that, it automatically naturally leads us to Jesus Christ.
And my sweetheart now has a little mechanism she uses, Scott.
And I think she does it regularly, not daily, but regularly.
When she feels that she has messed up, made a mistake, committed those little sins that
in her case seems so large to her that would be so small to me.
But because of her sensitive nature and spirit, she feels like she's a terrible sinner, and
we all are.
But now when she feels that, and she gets a little maybe discouraged, she'll just bow
her head wherever she is, and she'll say, thank you.
And she's thanking Heavenly Father for Jesus Christ and His sacrifice.
And understanding that she's fallen helps her to rely upon Jesus Christ and His merits
and His sacrifice, knowing that without Him, none of us will ever be good enough.
And isn't that just great news to know that, but because of Him, all of us can now qualify
to inherit what He has.
And when I say that, as soon as I say inherit what He has, I think of worlds and without
number, blah, blah, blah.
But what I really crave that He has at this part of my life, what I really crave what
He has is peace.
I just want His peace.
My peace I live with you.
I want that peace.
Because I know that we've all had trials.
I have.
You have.
I don't know any of us who hasn't some to more degrees than others.
And most of that, well, some of that at least can be attributed to our own personal choices,
etc.
But we've all experienced those things and to know that even when there's stuff going
on, I can have peace inside of me.
So for example, this morning, really early this morning, I got a phone call from a recovering
alcoholic who is struggling. He is just a couple of days sober, which means I don't
you for those who don't know when somebody detoxes from alcohol, and I'm not going to
give you an medical explanation.
But for somebody who does detox from alcohol, their body's changing and it's quite painful.
And it can not just affect the body, but because a lack of sleep and a whole bunch of other
stuff that's going on there can also become some emotional and mental challenges that
come with that.
And this this gentleman today was really struggling with anxiety, something that I can relate
to.
And as he began to talk about his anxiety, he said, my ears are ringing, my heart is
pounding almost like throbbing, my throat is dry, and I feel so detached from everything.
And that's what happens.
That's also a part of the natural man, your depressions, anxieties, those types of things
that we do my sweetheart, Deb and I teach Institute BYU for young single adults. There's
a lot of folks there.
There's a lot of folks among all of us who deal with eating disorders who deal with all
kinds of maladies of the spirit and the mind and the body that are all a direct result
of the fall.
Doing that and knowing that the fall was there and created as actually planned to be part
of the plan so that we could feel the effect so that we could have an appreciation so that
the atonement of Jesus Christ could actually be put into our lives so that we could take
that upon us.
It occurs to me that as we see that the sin is obviously utmost importance. That's what
keeps us separated from God.
But God wants us happy. He wants us to be comfortable and at peace. Comfortable, maybe
not the word I want to use, but at peace. He wants us at peace because He said, I leave
my peace with you.
So having that understanding and watching Chris and others who have had this experience
in this aha moment, and now she has a mechanism that will take her through her life that will
take her back to that memory. Take her back to that she has a body learning. She has a
spirit learning and she can combine those two things by just bowing her head and saying,
thank you. That's profound.
And we should all be that way every day when we feel the effects of the fall every day.
Our mind should immediately go to the atonement of Jesus Christ. We should all bow our heads
either literally or spiritually and we should say thank you. That I think is one of the
major purposes of the fall and one of the major reasons why C.S. Lewis says redeemed
humanity is greater than unfallen humanity could have ever been more glorious.
So I think Scott that what you're bringing up is not just the spiritual negatives of
the fall, but the physical negatives of the fall and that the truth is, and this is one
of the great lessons we should learn from the fall is one of the great lessons that
we should take from that doctrine is that this life was not meant to be easy. Lehi
taught that there must be opposition in all things. There always has been pre mortal even
in heaven. There was a war mortal. We're experiencing all the effects of a celestial hellish world
and post mortal. There will always be opposition. It's like the law of opposition will always
be present. And then he says in that same chapter, second Nephi chapter two, speaking
really teaching Jacob, who becomes one of the great theologians of the Book of Mormon.
Anyway, Lehi says and Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy,
not easy, not comfort, not an easy way of life, but that it would it would be a process
of joy. And I'm thinking of a young man. I have a son who's in prison getting out soon.
And we can talk more about him later and all of the blessings and lessons that I have received
in my life because of him. However, this was experienced at several years ago before he
went to prison. And we I had to attend an addiction class with him because he was a
minor and this one addiction class that we attended. A new young man was there, very,
very handsome, good looking young man. And he confessed his kind of past to the group.
And he talked about prior to his mission, how he strived to keep every commandment,
the gospel perfectly, chose not to go on any dates because he didn't want to be tempted
before his mission, went on his mission believing based on what Alma was saying that if he was
good enough and he would repent and that he would keep the commandments that he could
baptize thousands. And then he goes to this mission in Europe. And he said that he lived
every rule, kept every rule and followed all the guidelines and worked so hard. And he came home
without a single baptism. And he said, I remember the day shortly after my mission. I remember
the day when I decided I deserved to be comfortable. And just never forget that's a quote.
Yeah. Yeah. The day I decided I deserved to be comfortable. And that put him on a really slippery
slope and he decided that he could try anything, put anything into his body that he desired,
that he could watch anything and he developed pornography addictions. He developed a drug
addiction. He acted out on some of his addictions and he lost his membership in the church. And
after hitting rock bottom and losing everything that was dear to him, he was finally on his way
back. And I I've never forgotten the lesson I learned from that, that we don't deserve to be
comfortable. That's not the purpose of this life. The purpose of this life would be that we would
be fallen, that we would experience adversity, that we would experience afflictions, trials and
tribulations. That's all part of the fall, that there would be awful opposition in this life,
so that we could learn to rely again upon Jesus Christ. And part of the plan of redemption was
that we would have these mortal experiences and that the goal should not to be come comfortable.
The goal should be that we seek our comforter, that we seek the Holy Ghost, that we rely upon
Jesus Christ and allow the comforter to comfort us in our trials and tribulations and apply
and administer the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives. That should be the goal of this life.
So then if that's the goal of this life and we live this life, we're taught as we grow up.
It's not just in the church. People are just taught this. This is our cultural norm for the most
part. There's some exceptions to this certainly, rare though. But we're mostly taught to try hard,
to be better. And in the Christian world, and specifically within the Church of Jesus Christ
Latter-day Saints, specifically within really any religion, we're always taught to be like Him.
Right? He said, be therefore perfect even as I or your Father in which is heaven is perfect.
We're taught always to try to become more like Him, to follow in His footsteps. And then when we
fall short, oftentimes, it gives us an opportunity to beat ourselves up because we just didn't get it.
You know, Chris had it. I think a lot of the same feelings that a lot of people in the church have
is just, I just, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying. I just can't try hard enough.
Well, in primary, Scott, in primary, we sing, the children sing, I'm trying to be like Jesus.
That's a wonderful thing to sing. It's a wonderful thing to believe.
And it's a wonderful thing to seek after. It's a wonderful thing to seek after. True. Amen.
And I remember when President Eyring read the words of that primary song and got really emotional
back in, I think, conference talk in 2009 or something. I'll never forget that. And feeling
the Spirit of the Lord as a prophet of God quoted the words, I'm trying to be like Jesus.
However, it has always struck me that being like Jesus is not just, it's just not going to be
possible in this life. And people like my dear saintly, my dear saintly wife, Chris, thinks that
she can be like Jesus in this life. And it can really lead to despondency. And I think there's
a lot of people in the church who are just throwing in the towel, throwing up their hands.
And some of them walking away because it's just too hard in this world of sin, as it even becomes
more and more sinful, it's just too hard to try to be like Jesus. And I was teaching a class
a few years ago to seminaries and institute teachers right before I retired. And I told the
teachers there, you know, I wish that we had another verse, an additional verse to the song I'm
trying to be like Jesus, that would recognize our fall because I was teaching about the fall,
the Vadim and Eve and how that affects all of us and our need to be thankful for it and recognize
it and accept it and celebrate our humanness. We needed a verse in that song to recognize that.
Well, I didn't think much more about it, but a few weeks later, my good friend Tucker Boyle came back
and he had taken kind of the challenge I had thrown out there seriously. And he had actually
written another verse for the song, I'm trying to be like Jesus. And here's how it goes. I give
Tucker Boyle all the recognition for this and gratitude for it. I'm trying to be like Jesus,
but stumbling along the way, I struggle to live as he did in all that I do and say.
But though I may falter and make the wrong choice, I find hope in forgiveness as the still small
voice whispers, trust in the Savior and know this is true. His grace is sufficient for mortals like
you. His love is still constant. Repent and fear not for these are the things Jesus taught.
Well, I really love that Scott, because I know in my own experience, my own family,
all the students that I've taught over all the years that there are just so many who get so
down on themselves. And in this church, Scott, there are some of the best people in this church
are trying way too hard to be perfect and believing that they can accomplish that in this life,
which prophets have told us is not a mortal thing that we're going to be able to pull off.
Perfection is pending, President Nelson has said. It's something that we'll only accomplish in the
next life. There are too many people who are are hung up in the church on perfectionism,
trying to be perfect and meritocracy, believing that they can be saved based on their own merits.
And I love all of the scriptures in the Book of Mormon that teach that man can merit nothing
of himself. That's in Alma 22, Aaron teaching King Lamona's father. Man can merit nothing of
himself. Maronite teaching that we are saved through Christ merits. We need we all need to
understand that because of the fall that we really are nothing as even Christ himself has thought.
If we really are to try to be like Jesus, if we do understand that there's just no way we're ever
going to be like Jesus, but we understand in this life, not in this life. Thanks for pointing that
out. Not in this life, not immortality. People were created to have joy. Men are that they might have
joy. But so much of humanity, so much of humanness seems to go contradictory to joy.
So what do we do with all of this? How does one take, okay, so you're telling me I'm going to
have joy, you're telling me that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all these things
are going to be made right, you're telling me that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that my
thoughts can be made pure, my actions can be modified, my choices, my reactions to stuff
that's happened to me in the past, stuff like that can all be made right. But I mean what do we do
with all through the Atonement of Jesus Christ as administered in our life through the gift of the
Holy Ghost, the Comforter and Scott, joy, peace, love, all of those feelings, all those emotions
are fruits of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5, the fruits of the Spirit are these, love, joy, peace.
So we need to understand what God has given us, recognize our need for it, be more grateful for
it. The Atonement of Jesus Christ and the gift of the Holy Ghost that administers all of the blessings,
all of the powers, all of the strength, all of the grace, all of the mercy
is administered in our life through the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And I think that probably answers another question. So one might ask, well if that's the case,
and why even try? If he's already paid for all of that, if he's already done all of that for me,
it's just a lot of work. And I hear this and I have actually felt this sometimes. It's a lot of
work to try and keep the commandments. It's a lot of work to follow the Savior. It's not often easy.
And I think you just answered that. You know, we put on the Atonement of Jesus Christ by keeping
the commandments. When we keep the commandments, we invite the Spirit of the whole, we invite the
Holy Spirit into our lives. When the Holy Spirit, who is the Comforter, right? Right. Who is the
Comforter? Right. When the Comforter is in our lives and we feel that comfort, that's maybe when
the culmination of turning my will to him, the broken heart, the contract spirit that we've
talked about so much. When I've done that, when I recognize I can't, he can, and I think I'll let
him, like we've talked about, are the first three steps of any addiction recovery program.
When we do that, that's when the effects of the Atonement take place. That's when in the face
of sometimes our darkest adversity, we can fill his love. I have felt that. I know you have felt
that. And I've been around multiple countless, countless people who have had that experience
in their life that just by keeping the commandments to the best of my ability and putting on the
Atonement through obedience to the commandments, to the best of my ability, through repentance,
this, the Comforter comes into my life. Man, I get peace. Yeah, that's right, Scott. I think
I've told you this before, but when I was young and probably there are still many members of the
church who feel this way, that if I'm good enough and I keep all the commandments that I don't,
then I won't need the Atonement. I won't have to call upon the suffering of Jesus. I won't need him.
Wow. That's almost evil to think that way. And I used to think that way. I used to think that
way through my mission. And it wasn't until experiences until I really understood the fall
and the Atonement of Jesus Christ that now instead of I keep, I don't, I, now I don't keep the
commandments so I won't need the Atonement. I've completely changed. It's just the opposite.
I keep the commandments so that I can put on the Atonement. That's why I keep the commandments.
That's why there are covenants and ordinances so that we can put on the Atonement. And we keep
using the phrase, Scott, you use that, I keep using it, put on the Atonement. The Hebrew word
for Atonement in the Old Testament means covering, that we put it on like a shawl, like a warm blanket,
that we put it on, that it can comfort us. I think it's interesting that we, you know, that we buy
a Comforter to put on our beds to keep us warm and comforted. That's like putting on the Atonement
in our life. The Atonement of Jesus Christ covers us. It covers us not only for the sins that we
commit and repent of, it covers us, Scott, for all the sins that are committed against us.
For all of, I believe this, Scott, this may be, I guess, my opinion, and I haven't heard anybody say
this, but I believe that all of the negatives in our life that we did not choose, that are the
result of Adam and Eve's fall, and because I live in a mortal world, all of the negatives that I don't
choose, sickness would be an example, disease, all of those things, mental illness, are all
unconditionally covered and compensated for through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I had an experience
years ago with a dear friend who was the Secretary of our Seminary, who was dying of cancer, had four
stage, stage four cancer, and was dying, and I was the last one in the building one particular day
with Mandy, and I went, saw her in the office, and I went in to have kind of a just a personal
moment, and I said, Mandy, how are you doing? And she says, I'm doing good, Brother Durfee,
knowing that she only had a few months to live, and I said, Mandy, no, really, how are you doing?
And she said, Brother Durfee, I'm doing really good, I'm doing good. She said, I can tell you this,
that if I had to give back the cancer, or give back the lessons I've learned as a result of the
cancer, I would keep the cancer. I wouldn't give back the lessons I've learned. I was amazed by
that response, and I said, then Mandy, please, tell me what great lessons you have learned,
and I will never forget that personal, private, spiritual moments, God, when she said,
and she had four children that she was going to leave, and her oldest child was in high school,
and I will never forget her saying, Brother Durfee, I've learned how completely, totally,
dependent I am, and my family is, upon Jesus Christ and his Atonement,
and I remember thinking, what greater lesson would there be to learn than that?
So until we understand the fall of us all, we can't really understand and appreciate
the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and until we understand the fall of all,
we can't allow ourselves to think that this life is going to be easy, or that it's going,
that you know, this mortality is not for Wimps, Scott, it's it's meant to be full of opposition,
it's meant to be tough, it's all part of the plan that we would sin and we would be sinned against,
but that because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, that we would have peace and joy and all of those
things, and I'm grateful for it. And so am I, to think that if we had to come to this earth and
live our life the way that I thought we needed to come to this earth and live our life, that would
be difficult. I just, and you know what, David, and that happened to me early on. There was a time
in my life when it was just, I just knew I couldn't keep it up, I couldn't keep up, I just couldn't
do it all. And you know, when that happens, a lot of a lot of crazy things happen in a person's life.
We sometimes live a double life, we sometimes do things that wouldn't, we wouldn't have done otherwise,
and I'm not going to get into a lot of great detail around that, but to know that, I'm not alone,
and to know that the struggle was part of the plan, and it wasn't something that we were encouraged to
avoid, it was something that we were encouraged to replace with the Atonement and the hope of our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. That's what we're encouraged to do. We are encouraged to avoid where we can,
of course, we're encouraged to keep the commandments. We're not always going to be 100% successful at
that. And so to know that, you know what, every time I've made a mistake, every time that I have
distanced myself from the administration of the Atonement of Jesus Christ by eliminating my ability
to have the comforter in my life, every time that that's happened, to know that, you know what,
even that might have been part of the plan, because now I am gaining a deeper, and this has been a
over a couple of decades for me, that I have been gaining a deeper appreciation of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ. I don't beat myself up for what I did. I'm careful about what I do, and when I
make a mistake now, there are times when I feel, especially if it's hard, if I hurt somebody's
feelings, or if it affects other people, sure it affects me, but it's not doom and gloom. It's hope.
It's radiant. It's the Son of God who is rising in the Ace to give us hope and healing, and as
with hope and healing in his wings, right, and he's coming forth and has come forth, has laid a
foundation, a pattern for us to be happy and successful here and forever. Yeah, amen, Scott.
That's the importance of understanding the Fall and the Atonement, is that we can experience the
true love of God in our lives and learn how to love our neighbors as ourselves. I think it should
definitely, as a result of our understanding of the Fall and the Atonement, it should make us more
merciful towards ourselves and others. It should make us more kind. It should allow us to be more
forgiving. It should allow us to just be more generous in how we offer and extend our love
to others around us, knowing that it was part of God's plan, and it's not part of God's plan that
we sin, but he knew that we would. It was part of the plan that there would be sin in this world,
that we would experience sin, and that we would experience it as a result of committing it and
receiving it in our lives. He knew what we would experience, and as a result of everything that
mankind, not just you and me, would experience, then the Atonement of Jesus Christ took all of that
into consideration, and when Jesus suffered in Gethsemane and on the cross, he suffered for
all of the sins, all of the sicknesses, all of the sorrows, all of the pains, all of the injustices,
all of the inequalities, all of the iniquities of us all. And if we would understand the plan of
redemption and how through Christ we can be restored not to a status quo, not to a status
quo of innocence, but that we could overcome the fall, then it goes back that the redeemed humanity
is greater, more glorious than unfallen humanity could have ever been. I'm grateful for mortality.
You know, it's amazing that God trusted us to go through hell since this is the celestial kingdom.
It's amazing that he not only trusted us, but he provided the means that we could go through hell
in order to return to heaven. And all we got to do is accept it. By accepting it, understanding it,
we have to understand it, be thankful for it, and it automatically, because of our love and our
seeking and our desire to emulate that which we love, then automatically it changes who we are.
It doesn't just change who we are on the inside too, it changes our behaviors, it changes our
behaviors, it changes our actions, it changes our, maybe most importantly, interactions with other
people. In the Book of Mormon, this doctrine of the fall and the need for Redeemer is brought up
as early as the 10th chapter in 1 Nephi chapter 10. Lehi says, Nephi quoting his father Lehi,
he says in chapter 10 verse 6, wherefore all mankind were in a lost and in a fallen state,
and ever would be saved, they should rely on this Redeemer. This is the essence, Scott, of mortality,
is learn how and why we need to rely on a Redeemer. And I'm looking forward to future podcasts when
we will begin soon to talk about that Atonement of Jesus Christ in great detail. Not only, we've kind
of talked about the last two podcasts, why we need the Redeemer. In the next, in the future podcast,
we'll talk about what is the Atonement of Jesus Christ and especially how can we access the power
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives. So I'm looking forward to those.
Yeah, a lot of great stuff to look forward to there. This has been an awesome day.
It's a great opportunity to be with you, Dave, to fill of your spirit, to learn from you what you
know, to experience and have experiences from other people as we've shared stories, etc. And if
man come unto me, I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may
be humble and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me. For if they
humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then hear this, then will I make weak things become
strong unto them. I know that's absolutely true. I've seen it. I've witnessed it, not just in my own
life, but in I can't tell you how many lives around me that weak things can become strong
unto us, unto them, unto us through through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Savior and Redeemer.
And that's the only way. That is exactly how and that's the only way. Great day. Do you have
anything else? Thank you so much. It's such an important topic. I just pray I had an experience
years ago, Scott, where the man that wrote the Bible dictionary, Robert J. Matthews, he came to
Minnesota. I was happened to be the area director at the time in the Midwest over seminaries and
institutes. And I had invited him to come and to teach us about the Old Testament because the
following year was going to be the Old Testament in seminaries. And I had all I had the several
Institute directors, coordinators there in this training. And he he wanted to stay in my home.
We had had a kind of a relationship before I had moved back to the Midwest. And I loved Brother
Matthews so much. And so he stayed in my home. And the night before this training was to begin,
I said, Brother Matthews, I wondered how you would feel about us tomorrow as we begin this
this week long seminar on the Old Testament. How would you feel tomorrow if we just talked about
the fall of Adam and Eve and the fall of all mankind? What if we spent six to eight hours
on the atonement or on the fall of Adam and Eve? And he looked at me like, really, are you serious?
And he said, David, all of my life, I have wanted to spend eight hours teaching about the fall of
Adam and Eve. He was so happy. And the next day, he was prepared and ready. And we went through all
of the scriptures in all of the standard works that talked about the necessity, the importance,
and the reasons why there needed to be a fall of Adam and Eve and what a blessing the fall is in
each of our lives. I pray that today, maybe besides other things that we've accomplished, that all of
our listeners will maybe offer that prayer to thank God for the fall of Adam and Eve, and to thank
God for their own personal fall and the mortal experiences that we have every day, which teach
us that the purpose of this life is to learn to rely upon a redeemer and savior and to feel the
love of God in our lives. As you do that, I would just cosign that challenge. As we do that,
you're definitely bound to have some sacred experiences. And I wouldn't want to encroach on
that. However, if you do have experiences that you felt would be shareable to us, please send
those to heredeemsusatgmail.com. If you would rather those not be talked about on air, we're
happy to do that. Just make that request as part of your email. This has been a great day, a great
opportunity once again to talk about things that are not just important, but literally life saving,
eternal life saving too. This is where the rubber hits the road in all things. This is exactly where
it takes place is through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Savior. Why did we need it? We need
it because of the fall. Why did we need the fall? We need the fall so that we could put on the Atonement
and it's a round and round it goes and what a blessing it is for us. I'm so grateful. Thanks
for the challenge, Dave, to pray for that. A couple of other things, folks, is we've been listening.
I'm sure that you've had an impression or two. Maybe go back, record that impression, look for
whether the Holy Spirit is talking to you, look for opportunities in your lives. And I'll extend
that invitation to David and myself as well. That as those things start to unfold and become
clear in our lives through the Holy Spirit, through the Comforter, I just pray that we'll have the
ability to follow through and maybe start to see an effect, a changing effect in our lives
through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Savior. Again, he redeems us at gmail.com. Please send us
your emails while you're in there. If you would like and leave reviews, we very much appreciate
that as well. This has been a great day for us. We hope it has for you as well. Take care, everybody,
and God bless.