1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:22,280 Hello, everybody, and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood, a podcast where we discuss 2 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,060 hope healing and redemption through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 3 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:30,800 My name is Scott Durfee and it's my pleasure to introduce my partner in this project, 4 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:31,880 Brother David Durfee. 5 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:32,880 Say hi, Dave. 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,500 Good morning, everyone. 7 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:37,400 Hope you're all doing well. 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,600 And I look forward to talking about this important subject today. 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:42,600 As am I. 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,200 Just so you know, I want to give a little background on David here. 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,920 David, of course, is my uncle, for those of you who don't know, kind of a big brother 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:56,360 figure for me, but that's not what qualifies him to do what we're doing here. 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,800 Dave's somebody obviously of great influence in my life and in the life of many, many, 14 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:01,800 many people. 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:07,640 He's spent many years, even actually decades, in many leadership positions in the Church 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,760 of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,320 Currently is a ordained patriarch in the church. 18 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:19,640 He has served in stake presidencies and bishoprics and mission presidencies even and things along 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:20,640 those lines. 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,320 But in addition to that has spent, I think, the better part of four decades in the church 21 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:32,880 education system where he has absolutely influenced not just students, but other instructors. 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,720 And I might even go out on a limb here and say has influenced them in ways that very 23 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:46,200 few can, especially when it comes to understanding and covering ourselves with the Atonement 24 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,200 of Jesus Christ. 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,200 So we're excited about that today. 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,040 We just do a real quick couple of housekeeping items here. 27 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,000 Our email address is heredeemsusatgmail.com. 28 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,920 He redeemsusatgmail.com. 29 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,840 Now why am I giving you our email address? 30 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,040 We encourage you to send us emails, ask us questions. 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,360 If you have stories that may go along with the things that we're talking about here, 32 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:17,200 we'd love to maybe even with your permission if it was appropriate to include those things 33 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:18,200 along those lines. 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,280 So he redeemsusatgmail.com. 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,680 Additionally, we're also looking for your feedback. 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,760 So if you have any criticisms, any encouragements, any ideas that you think might be helpful 37 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,280 in helping us put these things together, we welcome them. 38 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,200 Not only do we welcome them, but we're asking you for them if you don't mind. 39 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,640 While you are there and you are listening to our podcasts and downloading them, etc., 40 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:48,160 if you would do us a favor and just subscribe to whichever podcast outlet you're using, 41 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,360 subscribe to our podcast and encourage your friends, tell others. 42 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:53,960 We very much appreciate that. 43 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,140 All right, let's recap just real quick last week. 44 00:02:57,140 --> 00:03:01,960 We began our discussion on the fall of Adam and Eve. 45 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:08,760 As we did that, we began to uncover some of the wonderful, wonderful blessings that are 46 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,520 extended to us because of the fall of Adam and Eve. 47 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,880 And of course, the most important blessing that is extended to us because of the fall 48 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,400 of Adam and Eve and the fall of us always the Atonement of Jesus Christ so that we can 49 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:26,440 be redeemed so that we can have all of the blessings that's been promised to us as we 50 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:32,680 go through this life in a mortal, go through this mortal life in the way that we do. 51 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:39,040 So I think to do that, what we're going to do, I want to just kind of ask us all, you 52 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,840 know, when was the last time? 53 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,880 I think David has asked this of me. 54 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,240 I know he's asked it and he may have asked it on the last. 55 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,480 I should know this may have asked it on the last podcast, but when was the last time? 56 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,560 And this is the question I want us to ask ourselves. 57 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,280 When was the last time we actually in prayer gave thanks to our Father in heaven for the 58 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,280 fall of Adam and Eve? 59 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,600 Now think that through. 60 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,320 When was the last time you're so you're saying, Scott, when was the last time I thanked him 61 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:06,960 for my difficulties? 62 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,520 When was the last time I thanked him for the things in this life that are keep me from 63 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,520 filling his spirit, etc. 64 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,800 And yeah, that is what I'm asking you to do. 65 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,520 Now if we turn in the Book of Mormon to the Book of Ether chapter 12 verse 27, and I'm 66 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,440 just going to read the verse and we'll take it from here. 67 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,640 And if men come on to me, I will show them their weakness. 68 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:36,440 I give unto men weakness that they may be humble and my grace is sufficient for all men that 69 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,920 humble themselves before me. 70 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:45,760 For if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things 71 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,800 become strong unto them. 72 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:57,400 So Dave, that poses a interesting concept and interesting take on, you know, the fall, the 73 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:02,560 difficulties that we're facing it almost looks like that Heavenly Father has given 74 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,040 us those things on purpose. 75 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,040 Dave, thank you, Scott. 76 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:15,840 When the Lord says in this scripture through Moroni, Moroni is the one writing this as 77 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:21,600 he gives a little documentary or commentary on the on the plates of ether. 78 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:29,840 And he says that I give unto men weakness, in other words, the Lord gives unto us weakness. 79 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:33,040 I think he's really talking about the fall. 80 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,640 And he's saying I give unto men the fall. 81 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:43,000 I, I'm grateful for your question, Scott, about when is the last time we thank God for 82 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,560 the fall? 83 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:51,160 I remember that when I did that several years ago now, I'd asked that question came to my 84 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,880 mind as I was teaching a class once, and I asked the students, when's the last time you 85 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,200 thank God for the fall? 86 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,320 When's the last time you thank God for the weakness he gave you? 87 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,160 And nobody raised their hands, of course. 88 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,800 And I thought to myself, and neither have I. 89 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:15,680 And it was within probably the next few days that I did that. 90 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,440 And it was an elaborating experience for me. 91 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,040 I say it opened up something in me. 92 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:30,600 It helped me to understand why I needed so badly to appreciate the fall, not not just 93 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:37,840 understand it, but to be grateful for it, and to express that openly to my Heavenly Father, 94 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:43,120 recognizing that that's part of the plan of redemption, that without the fall that there 95 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,280 would, that there would be no redemption. 96 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:52,120 And I'm thinking of a quote by C.S. Lewis right now who said that God is not merely 97 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,480 mending, not simply restoring a status quo. 98 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:06,560 He said that redeemed humanity is to be something more glorious than unfallen humanity would 99 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,880 have ever been. 100 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,160 Let me say that again, that last sentence. 101 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:21,720 Reemed humanity is to be something more glorious than unfallen humanity would have ever been. 102 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,960 And I hope that today we can discuss that question, Scott, how so? 103 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:35,640 How is it that redeemed humanity is greater or more glorious than unfallen humanity would 104 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,320 have ever been? 105 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:44,560 So maybe we can talk about that and help one another and help our listeners to understand 106 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,360 why that's true. 107 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:53,120 Well, so Dave, let's go back to that quote, for God is not merely mending, not simply 108 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,080 restoring a status quo. 109 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:01,160 So that's telling me then that he's, you know, and this is just an observation by a really 110 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,680 smart philosopher, C.S. Lewis, writer, author. 111 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:11,160 But this is an interesting observation that he's able to make here for he's not merely 112 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,360 mending, not simply restoring a status quo. 113 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,480 Redeemed humanity is something more glorious than fallen humanity. 114 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:21,480 Then unfallen. 115 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Then unfallen, sorry, I read that wrong, then unfallen humanity could have ever been. 116 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:32,680 So by goodness, you know, I think that as we read that is, I know the first time that 117 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:36,920 I heard that or considered that concept per se. 118 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:43,320 And I know probably others have the same feeling was like, okay, that's a bit of a conundrum 119 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,320 here. 120 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,160 How does that, how can we shake that out and make any sense of that? 121 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,960 It wasn't part of the plan that we remain in the Garden of Eden that Adam and Eve remain 122 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:59,960 there or that we, that we go back to that state in, in mortality right away. 123 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:06,680 The earth will be restored to that paradicycle glory when it becomes a terrestrial kingdom 124 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,640 and when this after the Savior comes. 125 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:19,800 But up until then, for over 6000 years now, this mortal, telestial world has received 126 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,600 spirits from the pre-mortal existence. 127 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:29,080 And it was all part of the plan that as soon as they were born, that they experienced spiritual 128 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:36,360 death being separated from God and that the seeds of physical death were planted in them, 129 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:44,560 they became flesh and blood corruptible and that there would be spiritual and physical 130 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:53,720 death and all of the pains and sufferings and trials and tribulations and sins and sorrows 131 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,680 that accompany mortality. 132 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:03,240 I love the way, you know, it's amazing to me that C.S. Lewis, who is Anglican in his 133 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:10,240 faith, that he understood this by just using the New Testament. 134 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,920 And I think it's, it may be primarily based upon this scripture in 1 Corinthians chapter 135 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,560 15. 136 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:25,520 Paul taught this so clearly, Scott, for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall 137 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,600 all be made alive. 138 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:35,400 So Paul saying, because of Adam, all are going to die, death came into the world, he's speaking 139 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,760 spiritually and physically. 140 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,720 And because of Christ, all shall be made alive. 141 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:47,880 Because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, he unconditionally, Scott, overcame spiritual 142 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:53,600 death because after the resurrection, we are all going to return to the presence of God. 143 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,480 We'll talk more about that when we speak about the powers and blessings and effects of the 144 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,040 atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. 145 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,800 And he unconditionally overcame physical death because of the resurrection. 146 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:12,600 So the atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes the two negative, big negatives 147 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,480 of the fall of Adam and Eve, which is spiritual death and physical death. 148 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:22,720 And then there's one more verse, verse 1 Corinthians 15, this is verse 23. 149 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:28,240 But every man in his own order, Christ the firstfruits, afterward they are Christ at 150 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:34,080 his coming, then cometh the end when he shall be delivered up to God, even the Father, when 151 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,080 he shall put down all rule, all authority, and all power. 152 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:46,600 So I just think that it's amazing that using just the New Testament, that C.S. Lewis came 153 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:53,880 up with this idea that redeemed humanity is more glorious than unfallen humanity. 154 00:11:53,880 --> 00:12:02,640 The Book of Mormon spends so much time, so many witnesses, so many verses on how important 155 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,480 the fall is in the plan of redemption, that we are all lost. 156 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,040 This is like a dozen times in the scriptures, Scott. 157 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Starting with Lehi. 158 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:18,320 Lehi taught it, it's taught throughout the Book of Mormon that because of the fall of 159 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Adam and Eve, all are lost, all are sinful, all are carnal, all have become in a state, 160 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,560 and I say state, not trait. 161 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:38,960 We are inherently, I think we said this last time, we are inherently good because we are 162 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:46,840 sons and daughters of God, but we are naturally evil, as the brother of Jared, we quoted that 163 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,920 scripture last time, that because of the fall, our natures are evil continually, but our 164 00:12:52,920 --> 00:13:00,320 spirits are inherently good, righteous, we fought a war, we defended the Atonement of 165 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:06,500 Jesus Christ in the premortal existence, and that's the key to us overcoming mortality. 166 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:14,440 So I just think it's really important that our listeners and that each of us understand 167 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:20,840 that without the fall of Adam and Eve, and the fall of you and me, because we're all 168 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:28,080 fallen, we're all lost, we're all sinners, without really knowing that, and without being 169 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:35,040 grateful for it, without appreciating it, we may not fully appreciate the atonement 170 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,920 of Jesus Christ, and that makes all the difference. 171 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:48,760 Dave, I don't know, maybe 10 years or so ago, my sweetheart Deb and I were facilitating 172 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,800 addiction recovery meetings for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints addiction 173 00:13:53,800 --> 00:14:00,840 recovery program, and we were at a building, it was a Sunday afternoon, this gentleman walks 174 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,400 in, big guy. 175 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:08,800 I mean, when he came through the door frame, the door frame just darkened, he was just 176 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:15,880 a big mountain of a man, and he didn't look all that refined. 177 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,080 He had tattoos all the way up his neck and even onto his face and behind his ears, all 178 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,400 down his arms. 179 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:29,360 He had on shorts that day, I remember, and his legs were covered with tattoos, piercings 180 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:30,360 everywhere. 181 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:36,720 What I have just described is obviously, by using those words like tattoos and piercings 182 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,920 and stuff, obviously a cultural norm, and I'm not making judgment on any of that, what 183 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,960 all I'm doing is trying to paint a picture and create a feeling and essence of what's 184 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,280 going on in this experience. 185 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:55,000 He starts sharing, it comes his turn to share, and I remember, and so does Deb, we talked 186 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,720 about it just the other day, we talk about it frequently, in fact, we bring this up when 187 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:05,840 either of us or both of us get an opportunity to share our experience, strength and hope 188 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,640 in that environment. 189 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,600 We share this story sometimes because it's so powerful, but this guy sitting in this 190 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:20,120 chair, it came his turn and he told us that he had just gotten out of prison, just released 191 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,240 from federal prison, and he began to cry. 192 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:31,040 He told us his name, told us a little bit of experience, told us that he had been incarcerated 193 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:38,440 for multiple decades, and that while he was there, that something had happened to him 194 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,040 where he began to get a glimpse of who he was. 195 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:49,200 And so he began to see himself behind all this mask, all of this stuff that was put 196 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:56,640 on the outside of his temple, his body temple, so to speak, to send a message or to whatever. 197 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:02,560 But as he did this, and he began to cry, the only thing I can really remember him saying 198 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,400 is, is I know my Heavenly Father loves me. 199 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,980 I know my Heavenly Father loves me. 200 00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:13,320 And all of these experiences that I've been through, he says, if I told you that I didn't 201 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,200 regret them, then I wouldn't be rehabilitated because I do regret what I've done. 202 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,400 I regret all of it. 203 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:26,480 But I know that because of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and through Christ's atonement, 204 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,280 that those things are made right, and made right. 205 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:38,760 And what he said is, in that almost a born again experience, that when he felt that forgiveness, 206 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:39,760 he felt it. 207 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,880 It was, ah, I feel my Father's love. 208 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,280 I am not who I have thought I was all this time. 209 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:53,560 And he began to be grateful for the path that his life had taken him down, which was obviously 210 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,680 a result, direct result of the fall. 211 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,280 Well, thank you, Scott, for sharing that. 212 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:07,600 President Ezra Taft Benson used to say, I remember when he said this in a BYU devotional, 213 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:13,600 it is always better to prepare and prevent than to repair and repent. 214 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,600 Amen. 215 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:15,600 Amen. 216 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,200 I believe that. 217 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:24,920 But the truth of it is, Scott, none of us can prepare enough, and none of us can prevent 218 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:31,580 sin from being a part of our life as mortals, either because of our personal sins, or because 219 00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:38,520 of the sins of others having some effect on us, or others even sinning against us. 220 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:46,760 So while it's true that we need to do better, we always seek improvement, we don't want 221 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,480 to sin, we cannot eliminate sin from our lives. 222 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,880 We are tainted by it every day. 223 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,880 There's not a day that goes by that we don't need to repent. 224 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:06,080 And I'm so thankful for the brethren and President Nelson, who's continually teaching and, and 225 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,960 encouraging us to repent daily. 226 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,360 And every time they say it, I think of the Prophet Joseph Smith, who said daily repentance 227 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:20,560 is not to be trifled with, meaning not that we shouldn't repent daily, but that we shouldn't 228 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,440 take it casually. 229 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:29,880 The point of your story, I think, really though, is that without the fall of Adam and Eve, without 230 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:38,560 your fall, without my fall, we would not feel the need for Redeemer, or the love that we 231 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:44,240 have for Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, and the plan of redemption, our fathers, heavenly 232 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:50,640 fathers, plan of redemption and his sacrifice in giving us his Son. 233 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:57,640 Ultimately, we would not have the same degree of love and the same degree of faith in, and 234 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:07,440 the same degree of dependence upon Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer and the Father's 235 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:08,440 plan of redemption. 236 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,440 Yeah. 237 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:14,720 So then if you're putting it that way, then maybe just maybe understanding the fall was 238 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:20,280 part of the plan so that the Atonement of Jesus Christ could come about. 239 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:28,240 Maybe that should make us approach our humaneness, our natural man. 240 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,560 Maybe that can help us. 241 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,240 Well we need to celebrate our humaneness. 242 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:33,240 We need to celebrate it. 243 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,320 We need to accept our humaneness. 244 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:42,480 We need to accept the fact that we will never be good enough in this life, and that's the 245 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,240 point of this story about Chris that I'll share. 246 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,720 I came home from work, this one, we lived in Minnesota, and the kids were kind of running 247 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,160 around and our children were still quite young. 248 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,920 And I said, so where's Chris? 249 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,820 Where's mom? 250 00:19:58,820 --> 00:20:01,880 And they said, she's upstairs crying. 251 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:07,640 So I went upstairs and carefully opened the door of our bedroom, and she's laying on the 252 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:13,040 bed face down, weeping. 253 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,920 And I said, sweetheart. 254 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,440 What's wrong? 255 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:24,360 And I remember the look on her face when she turned around and she looked at me and in 256 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:36,240 frustration and some despondency, she says, David, I will never be good enough. 257 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:47,600 Well, wow, I looked at this, I tried to feel what she was feeling and tried to hear what 258 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:55,000 she was saying, and I wasn't being cavalier or flippant about my response. 259 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:02,000 But I remember just standing there putting out my arms and saying, welcome to the club, 260 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,600 none of us will ever be good enough. 261 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:14,480 That's why we needed a redeemer, a savior. 262 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,960 And if she were here, and I wish she were, could tell her side of the story, it was like 263 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,400 a thousand lights went on in her mind. 264 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,680 Like a long prayer had been answered for her. 265 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:34,240 And she realized that it was part of the plan that in this life, she would never be good 266 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,000 enough. 267 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:44,760 But because the savior was good enough, because the savior did live a perfect life, a sinless 268 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,560 life that because of his atoning sacrifice, that she could be good enough, that it was 269 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,400 part of the plan that in this life, none of us will be good enough. 270 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:00,120 Like King Benjamin told those who had just been forgiven of their sins, scripture we 271 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:12,160 read last week, that remember you unworthy creatures, we're all unworthy, we're all sinners, 272 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,680 none of us will be good enough. 273 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:21,680 Recognizing that for Chris, and recognizing that for each of us as we come to know that, 274 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:30,480 feel that, wrestle with that, it automatically naturally leads us to Jesus Christ. 275 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,760 And my sweetheart now has a little mechanism she uses, Scott. 276 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:41,440 And I think she does it regularly, not daily, but regularly. 277 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:48,240 When she feels that she has messed up, made a mistake, committed those little sins that 278 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,800 in her case seems so large to her that would be so small to me. 279 00:22:53,800 --> 00:23:00,280 But because of her sensitive nature and spirit, she feels like she's a terrible sinner, and 280 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,280 we all are. 281 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:08,160 But now when she feels that, and she gets a little maybe discouraged, she'll just bow 282 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:14,080 her head wherever she is, and she'll say, thank you. 283 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:20,240 And she's thanking Heavenly Father for Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. 284 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:29,040 And understanding that she's fallen helps her to rely upon Jesus Christ and His merits 285 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:36,240 and His sacrifice, knowing that without Him, none of us will ever be good enough. 286 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,760 And isn't that just great news to know that, but because of Him, all of us can now qualify 287 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,000 to inherit what He has. 288 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,960 And when I say that, as soon as I say inherit what He has, I think of worlds and without 289 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,320 number, blah, blah, blah. 290 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:58,120 But what I really crave that He has at this part of my life, what I really crave what 291 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,240 He has is peace. 292 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,760 I just want His peace. 293 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,000 My peace I live with you. 294 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,600 I want that peace. 295 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,840 Because I know that we've all had trials. 296 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,560 I have. 297 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,560 You have. 298 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,240 I don't know any of us who hasn't some to more degrees than others. 299 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:23,120 And most of that, well, some of that at least can be attributed to our own personal choices, 300 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:24,120 etc. 301 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:30,640 But we've all experienced those things and to know that even when there's stuff going 302 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,560 on, I can have peace inside of me. 303 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,760 So for example, this morning, really early this morning, I got a phone call from a recovering 304 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:45,480 alcoholic who is struggling. He is just a couple of days sober, which means I don't 305 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,280 you for those who don't know when somebody detoxes from alcohol, and I'm not going to 306 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,120 give you an medical explanation. 307 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:57,480 But for somebody who does detox from alcohol, their body's changing and it's quite painful. 308 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,160 And it can not just affect the body, but because a lack of sleep and a whole bunch of other 309 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,040 stuff that's going on there can also become some emotional and mental challenges that 310 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,040 come with that. 311 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,800 And this this gentleman today was really struggling with anxiety, something that I can relate 312 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:14,800 to. 313 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:21,640 And as he began to talk about his anxiety, he said, my ears are ringing, my heart is 314 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:29,480 pounding almost like throbbing, my throat is dry, and I feel so detached from everything. 315 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,600 And that's what happens. 316 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:37,400 That's also a part of the natural man, your depressions, anxieties, those types of things 317 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:43,560 that we do my sweetheart, Deb and I teach Institute BYU for young single adults. There's 318 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,400 a lot of folks there. 319 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,280 There's a lot of folks among all of us who deal with eating disorders who deal with all 320 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:57,800 kinds of maladies of the spirit and the mind and the body that are all a direct result 321 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,160 of the fall. 322 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:07,240 Doing that and knowing that the fall was there and created as actually planned to be part 323 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,240 of the plan so that we could feel the effect so that we could have an appreciation so that 324 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,600 the atonement of Jesus Christ could actually be put into our lives so that we could take 325 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,120 that upon us. 326 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:26,680 It occurs to me that as we see that the sin is obviously utmost importance. That's what 327 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,960 keeps us separated from God. 328 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:34,360 But God wants us happy. He wants us to be comfortable and at peace. Comfortable, maybe 329 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,880 not the word I want to use, but at peace. He wants us at peace because He said, I leave 330 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,760 my peace with you. 331 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:48,280 So having that understanding and watching Chris and others who have had this experience 332 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:54,520 in this aha moment, and now she has a mechanism that will take her through her life that will 333 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,040 take her back to that memory. Take her back to that she has a body learning. She has a 334 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,800 spirit learning and she can combine those two things by just bowing her head and saying, 335 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,200 thank you. That's profound. 336 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:13,280 And we should all be that way every day when we feel the effects of the fall every day. 337 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:20,840 Our mind should immediately go to the atonement of Jesus Christ. We should all bow our heads 338 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:28,160 either literally or spiritually and we should say thank you. That I think is one of the 339 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:34,200 major purposes of the fall and one of the major reasons why C.S. Lewis says redeemed 340 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,760 humanity is greater than unfallen humanity could have ever been more glorious. 341 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:46,360 So I think Scott that what you're bringing up is not just the spiritual negatives of 342 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:53,640 the fall, but the physical negatives of the fall and that the truth is, and this is one 343 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,120 of the great lessons we should learn from the fall is one of the great lessons that 344 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:04,040 we should take from that doctrine is that this life was not meant to be easy. Lehi 345 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:12,280 taught that there must be opposition in all things. There always has been pre mortal even 346 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:21,280 in heaven. There was a war mortal. We're experiencing all the effects of a celestial hellish world 347 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:27,360 and post mortal. There will always be opposition. It's like the law of opposition will always 348 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:34,760 be present. And then he says in that same chapter, second Nephi chapter two, speaking 349 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,840 really teaching Jacob, who becomes one of the great theologians of the Book of Mormon. 350 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:49,080 Anyway, Lehi says and Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy, 351 00:28:49,080 --> 00:29:01,520 not easy, not comfort, not an easy way of life, but that it would it would be a process 352 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:09,280 of joy. And I'm thinking of a young man. I have a son who's in prison getting out soon. 353 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:15,920 And we can talk more about him later and all of the blessings and lessons that I have received 354 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:25,520 in my life because of him. However, this was experienced at several years ago before he 355 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:31,080 went to prison. And we I had to attend an addiction class with him because he was a 356 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:39,720 minor and this one addiction class that we attended. A new young man was there, very, 357 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:49,080 very handsome, good looking young man. And he confessed his kind of past to the group. 358 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:56,520 And he talked about prior to his mission, how he strived to keep every commandment, 359 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:02,640 the gospel perfectly, chose not to go on any dates because he didn't want to be tempted 360 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:09,320 before his mission, went on his mission believing based on what Alma was saying that if he was 361 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,520 good enough and he would repent and that he would keep the commandments that he could 362 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:22,280 baptize thousands. And then he goes to this mission in Europe. And he said that he lived 363 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:30,760 every rule, kept every rule and followed all the guidelines and worked so hard. And he came home 364 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:39,640 without a single baptism. And he said, I remember the day shortly after my mission. I remember 365 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:50,280 the day when I decided I deserved to be comfortable. And just never forget that's a quote. 366 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:57,960 Yeah. Yeah. The day I decided I deserved to be comfortable. And that put him on a really slippery 367 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:06,760 slope and he decided that he could try anything, put anything into his body that he desired, 368 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:14,360 that he could watch anything and he developed pornography addictions. He developed a drug 369 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:22,600 addiction. He acted out on some of his addictions and he lost his membership in the church. And 370 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:28,520 after hitting rock bottom and losing everything that was dear to him, he was finally on his way 371 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:36,200 back. And I I've never forgotten the lesson I learned from that, that we don't deserve to be 372 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,400 comfortable. That's not the purpose of this life. The purpose of this life would be that we would 373 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:47,480 be fallen, that we would experience adversity, that we would experience afflictions, trials and 374 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:54,040 tribulations. That's all part of the fall, that there would be awful opposition in this life, 375 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:59,640 so that we could learn to rely again upon Jesus Christ. And part of the plan of redemption was 376 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:06,360 that we would have these mortal experiences and that the goal should not to be come comfortable. 377 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:16,920 The goal should be that we seek our comforter, that we seek the Holy Ghost, that we rely upon 378 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:24,760 Jesus Christ and allow the comforter to comfort us in our trials and tribulations and apply 379 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:33,560 and administer the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives. That should be the goal of this life. 380 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:40,840 So then if that's the goal of this life and we live this life, we're taught as we grow up. 381 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:46,520 It's not just in the church. People are just taught this. This is our cultural norm for the most 382 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:54,680 part. There's some exceptions to this certainly, rare though. But we're mostly taught to try hard, 383 00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:00,680 to be better. And in the Christian world, and specifically within the Church of Jesus Christ 384 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:07,800 Latter-day Saints, specifically within really any religion, we're always taught to be like Him. 385 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,640 Right? He said, be therefore perfect even as I or your Father in which is heaven is perfect. 386 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:19,800 We're taught always to try to become more like Him, to follow in His footsteps. And then when we 387 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:26,520 fall short, oftentimes, it gives us an opportunity to beat ourselves up because we just didn't get it. 388 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:33,400 You know, Chris had it. I think a lot of the same feelings that a lot of people in the church have 389 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,000 is just, I just, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying. I just can't try hard enough. 390 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:43,960 Well, in primary, Scott, in primary, we sing, the children sing, I'm trying to be like Jesus. 391 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,880 That's a wonderful thing to sing. It's a wonderful thing to believe. 392 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:55,400 And it's a wonderful thing to seek after. It's a wonderful thing to seek after. True. Amen. 393 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:02,680 And I remember when President Eyring read the words of that primary song and got really emotional 394 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:10,120 back in, I think, conference talk in 2009 or something. I'll never forget that. And feeling 395 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:17,000 the Spirit of the Lord as a prophet of God quoted the words, I'm trying to be like Jesus. 396 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,120 However, it has always struck me that being like Jesus is not just, it's just not going to be 397 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:29,400 possible in this life. And people like my dear saintly, my dear saintly wife, Chris, thinks that 398 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:35,080 she can be like Jesus in this life. And it can really lead to despondency. And I think there's 399 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:41,640 a lot of people in the church who are just throwing in the towel, throwing up their hands. 400 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:48,040 And some of them walking away because it's just too hard in this world of sin, as it even becomes 401 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:54,360 more and more sinful, it's just too hard to try to be like Jesus. And I was teaching a class 402 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:02,440 a few years ago to seminaries and institute teachers right before I retired. And I told the 403 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:10,520 teachers there, you know, I wish that we had another verse, an additional verse to the song I'm 404 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,480 trying to be like Jesus, that would recognize our fall because I was teaching about the fall, 405 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,920 the Vadim and Eve and how that affects all of us and our need to be thankful for it and recognize 406 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:28,600 it and accept it and celebrate our humanness. We needed a verse in that song to recognize that. 407 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,040 Well, I didn't think much more about it, but a few weeks later, my good friend Tucker Boyle came back 408 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,720 and he had taken kind of the challenge I had thrown out there seriously. And he had actually 409 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:49,400 written another verse for the song, I'm trying to be like Jesus. And here's how it goes. I give 410 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:55,720 Tucker Boyle all the recognition for this and gratitude for it. I'm trying to be like Jesus, 411 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:05,400 but stumbling along the way, I struggle to live as he did in all that I do and say. 412 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:16,040 But though I may falter and make the wrong choice, I find hope in forgiveness as the still small 413 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:27,080 voice whispers, trust in the Savior and know this is true. His grace is sufficient for mortals like 414 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:37,240 you. His love is still constant. Repent and fear not for these are the things Jesus taught. 415 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:46,440 Well, I really love that Scott, because I know in my own experience, my own family, 416 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:54,360 all the students that I've taught over all the years that there are just so many who get so 417 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,560 down on themselves. And in this church, Scott, there are some of the best people in this church 418 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:08,440 are trying way too hard to be perfect and believing that they can accomplish that in this life, 419 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,160 which prophets have told us is not a mortal thing that we're going to be able to pull off. 420 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:20,840 Perfection is pending, President Nelson has said. It's something that we'll only accomplish in the 421 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:29,560 next life. There are too many people who are are hung up in the church on perfectionism, 422 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:40,360 trying to be perfect and meritocracy, believing that they can be saved based on their own merits. 423 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:48,600 And I love all of the scriptures in the Book of Mormon that teach that man can merit nothing 424 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:57,000 of himself. That's in Alma 22, Aaron teaching King Lamona's father. Man can merit nothing of 425 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:05,000 himself. Maronite teaching that we are saved through Christ merits. We need we all need to 426 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:12,120 understand that because of the fall that we really are nothing as even Christ himself has thought. 427 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:19,960 If we really are to try to be like Jesus, if we do understand that there's just no way we're ever 428 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:25,800 going to be like Jesus, but we understand in this life, not in this life. Thanks for pointing that 429 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:34,120 out. Not in this life, not immortality. People were created to have joy. Men are that they might have 430 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:43,160 joy. But so much of humanity, so much of humanness seems to go contradictory to joy. 431 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,720 So what do we do with all of this? How does one take, okay, so you're telling me I'm going to 432 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:53,320 have joy, you're telling me that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all these things 433 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,880 are going to be made right, you're telling me that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that my 434 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:04,600 thoughts can be made pure, my actions can be modified, my choices, my reactions to stuff 435 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:11,960 that's happened to me in the past, stuff like that can all be made right. But I mean what do we do 436 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:19,480 with all through the Atonement of Jesus Christ as administered in our life through the gift of the 437 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:28,360 Holy Ghost, the Comforter and Scott, joy, peace, love, all of those feelings, all those emotions 438 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:39,400 are fruits of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5, the fruits of the Spirit are these, love, joy, peace. 439 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:47,960 So we need to understand what God has given us, recognize our need for it, be more grateful for 440 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:57,560 it. The Atonement of Jesus Christ and the gift of the Holy Ghost that administers all of the blessings, 441 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:07,160 all of the powers, all of the strength, all of the grace, all of the mercy 442 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,480 is administered in our life through the gift of the Holy Ghost. 443 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,680 And I think that probably answers another question. So one might ask, well if that's the case, 444 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,360 and why even try? If he's already paid for all of that, if he's already done all of that for me, 445 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,800 it's just a lot of work. And I hear this and I have actually felt this sometimes. It's a lot of 446 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:34,200 work to try and keep the commandments. It's a lot of work to follow the Savior. It's not often easy. 447 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,440 And I think you just answered that. You know, we put on the Atonement of Jesus Christ by keeping 448 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:44,360 the commandments. When we keep the commandments, we invite the Spirit of the whole, we invite the 449 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:51,000 Holy Spirit into our lives. When the Holy Spirit, who is the Comforter, right? Right. Who is the 450 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:58,440 Comforter? Right. When the Comforter is in our lives and we feel that comfort, that's maybe when 451 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:04,920 the culmination of turning my will to him, the broken heart, the contract spirit that we've 452 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:13,880 talked about so much. When I've done that, when I recognize I can't, he can, and I think I'll let 453 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:19,160 him, like we've talked about, are the first three steps of any addiction recovery program. 454 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:25,400 When we do that, that's when the effects of the Atonement take place. That's when in the face 455 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:32,760 of sometimes our darkest adversity, we can fill his love. I have felt that. I know you have felt 456 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,880 that. And I've been around multiple countless, countless people who have had that experience 457 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:44,360 in their life that just by keeping the commandments to the best of my ability and putting on the 458 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:50,600 Atonement through obedience to the commandments, to the best of my ability, through repentance, 459 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:57,320 this, the Comforter comes into my life. Man, I get peace. Yeah, that's right, Scott. I think 460 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:03,080 I've told you this before, but when I was young and probably there are still many members of the 461 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:10,280 church who feel this way, that if I'm good enough and I keep all the commandments that I don't, 462 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:16,680 then I won't need the Atonement. I won't have to call upon the suffering of Jesus. I won't need him. 463 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:28,200 Wow. That's almost evil to think that way. And I used to think that way. I used to think that 464 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,800 way through my mission. And it wasn't until experiences until I really understood the fall 465 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:42,360 and the Atonement of Jesus Christ that now instead of I keep, I don't, I, now I don't keep the 466 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,640 commandments so I won't need the Atonement. I've completely changed. It's just the opposite. 467 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:54,520 I keep the commandments so that I can put on the Atonement. That's why I keep the commandments. 468 00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:00,280 That's why there are covenants and ordinances so that we can put on the Atonement. And we keep 469 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:05,960 using the phrase, Scott, you use that, I keep using it, put on the Atonement. The Hebrew word 470 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:15,240 for Atonement in the Old Testament means covering, that we put it on like a shawl, like a warm blanket, 471 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:22,280 that we put it on, that it can comfort us. I think it's interesting that we, you know, that we buy 472 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:30,360 a Comforter to put on our beds to keep us warm and comforted. That's like putting on the Atonement 473 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:38,040 in our life. The Atonement of Jesus Christ covers us. It covers us not only for the sins that we 474 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:45,080 commit and repent of, it covers us, Scott, for all the sins that are committed against us. 475 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:52,200 For all of, I believe this, Scott, this may be, I guess, my opinion, and I haven't heard anybody say 476 00:43:52,200 --> 00:44:00,120 this, but I believe that all of the negatives in our life that we did not choose, that are the 477 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:07,000 result of Adam and Eve's fall, and because I live in a mortal world, all of the negatives that I don't 478 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:17,240 choose, sickness would be an example, disease, all of those things, mental illness, are all 479 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:27,960 unconditionally covered and compensated for through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I had an experience 480 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:35,560 years ago with a dear friend who was the Secretary of our Seminary, who was dying of cancer, had four 481 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:43,080 stage, stage four cancer, and was dying, and I was the last one in the building one particular day 482 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:50,440 with Mandy, and I went, saw her in the office, and I went in to have kind of a just a personal 483 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:56,360 moment, and I said, Mandy, how are you doing? And she says, I'm doing good, Brother Durfee, 484 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:06,600 knowing that she only had a few months to live, and I said, Mandy, no, really, how are you doing? 485 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:15,240 And she said, Brother Durfee, I'm doing really good, I'm doing good. She said, I can tell you this, 486 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:23,800 that if I had to give back the cancer, or give back the lessons I've learned as a result of the 487 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:35,000 cancer, I would keep the cancer. I wouldn't give back the lessons I've learned. I was amazed by 488 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:41,640 that response, and I said, then Mandy, please, tell me what great lessons you have learned, 489 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:49,400 and I will never forget that personal, private, spiritual moments, God, when she said, 490 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:55,720 and she had four children that she was going to leave, and her oldest child was in high school, 491 00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:06,920 and I will never forget her saying, Brother Durfee, I've learned how completely, totally, 492 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:15,880 dependent I am, and my family is, upon Jesus Christ and his Atonement, 493 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:22,760 and I remember thinking, what greater lesson would there be to learn than that? 494 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:33,000 So until we understand the fall of us all, we can't really understand and appreciate 495 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:39,080 the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and until we understand the fall of all, 496 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:47,800 we can't allow ourselves to think that this life is going to be easy, or that it's going, 497 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:55,960 that you know, this mortality is not for Wimps, Scott, it's it's meant to be full of opposition, 498 00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:01,640 it's meant to be tough, it's all part of the plan that we would sin and we would be sinned against, 499 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:09,960 but that because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, that we would have peace and joy and all of those 500 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:21,640 things, and I'm grateful for it. And so am I, to think that if we had to come to this earth and 501 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:28,040 live our life the way that I thought we needed to come to this earth and live our life, that would 502 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:33,720 be difficult. I just, and you know what, David, and that happened to me early on. There was a time 503 00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:39,480 in my life when it was just, I just knew I couldn't keep it up, I couldn't keep up, I just couldn't 504 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:47,320 do it all. And you know, when that happens, a lot of a lot of crazy things happen in a person's life. 505 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:53,560 We sometimes live a double life, we sometimes do things that wouldn't, we wouldn't have done otherwise, 506 00:47:53,560 --> 00:48:00,200 and I'm not going to get into a lot of great detail around that, but to know that, I'm not alone, 507 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:05,720 and to know that the struggle was part of the plan, and it wasn't something that we were encouraged to 508 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:11,320 avoid, it was something that we were encouraged to replace with the Atonement and the hope of our Lord 509 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,840 and Savior Jesus Christ. That's what we're encouraged to do. We are encouraged to avoid where we can, 510 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,960 of course, we're encouraged to keep the commandments. We're not always going to be 100% successful at 511 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:28,600 that. And so to know that, you know what, every time I've made a mistake, every time that I have 512 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:36,040 distanced myself from the administration of the Atonement of Jesus Christ by eliminating my ability 513 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:42,440 to have the comforter in my life, every time that that's happened, to know that, you know what, 514 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:49,080 even that might have been part of the plan, because now I am gaining a deeper, and this has been a 515 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:55,240 over a couple of decades for me, that I have been gaining a deeper appreciation of the Atonement 516 00:48:55,240 --> 00:49:02,520 of Jesus Christ. I don't beat myself up for what I did. I'm careful about what I do, and when I 517 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:08,520 make a mistake now, there are times when I feel, especially if it's hard, if I hurt somebody's 518 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:16,360 feelings, or if it affects other people, sure it affects me, but it's not doom and gloom. It's hope. 519 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:25,400 It's radiant. It's the Son of God who is rising in the Ace to give us hope and healing, and as 520 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:30,280 with hope and healing in his wings, right, and he's coming forth and has come forth, has laid a 521 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:37,960 foundation, a pattern for us to be happy and successful here and forever. Yeah, amen, Scott. 522 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:47,400 That's the importance of understanding the Fall and the Atonement, is that we can experience the 523 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:54,600 true love of God in our lives and learn how to love our neighbors as ourselves. I think it should 524 00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:00,840 definitely, as a result of our understanding of the Fall and the Atonement, it should make us more 525 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:11,160 merciful towards ourselves and others. It should make us more kind. It should allow us to be more 526 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:20,840 forgiving. It should allow us to just be more generous in how we offer and extend our love 527 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:27,880 to others around us, knowing that it was part of God's plan, and it's not part of God's plan that 528 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:36,760 we sin, but he knew that we would. It was part of the plan that there would be sin in this world, 529 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:43,160 that we would experience sin, and that we would experience it as a result of committing it and 530 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:53,000 receiving it in our lives. He knew what we would experience, and as a result of everything that 531 00:50:53,000 --> 00:51:01,000 mankind, not just you and me, would experience, then the Atonement of Jesus Christ took all of that 532 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:11,640 into consideration, and when Jesus suffered in Gethsemane and on the cross, he suffered for 533 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:23,080 all of the sins, all of the sicknesses, all of the sorrows, all of the pains, all of the injustices, 534 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:37,240 all of the inequalities, all of the iniquities of us all. And if we would understand the plan of 535 00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:47,720 redemption and how through Christ we can be restored not to a status quo, not to a status 536 00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:59,800 quo of innocence, but that we could overcome the fall, then it goes back that the redeemed humanity 537 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:10,440 is greater, more glorious than unfallen humanity could have ever been. I'm grateful for mortality. 538 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:15,720 You know, it's amazing that God trusted us to go through hell since this is the celestial kingdom. 539 00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:22,920 It's amazing that he not only trusted us, but he provided the means that we could go through hell 540 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:31,320 in order to return to heaven. And all we got to do is accept it. By accepting it, understanding it, 541 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:39,400 we have to understand it, be thankful for it, and it automatically, because of our love and our 542 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:46,120 seeking and our desire to emulate that which we love, then automatically it changes who we are. 543 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,600 It doesn't just change who we are on the inside too, it changes our behaviors, it changes our 544 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,960 behaviors, it changes our actions, it changes our, maybe most importantly, interactions with other 545 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:03,800 people. In the Book of Mormon, this doctrine of the fall and the need for Redeemer is brought up 546 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:13,080 as early as the 10th chapter in 1 Nephi chapter 10. Lehi says, Nephi quoting his father Lehi, 547 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:21,560 he says in chapter 10 verse 6, wherefore all mankind were in a lost and in a fallen state, 548 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:33,320 and ever would be saved, they should rely on this Redeemer. This is the essence, Scott, of mortality, 549 00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:47,000 is learn how and why we need to rely on a Redeemer. And I'm looking forward to future podcasts when 550 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:54,440 we will begin soon to talk about that Atonement of Jesus Christ in great detail. Not only, we've kind 551 00:53:54,440 --> 00:54:00,440 of talked about the last two podcasts, why we need the Redeemer. In the next, in the future podcast, 552 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:08,840 we'll talk about what is the Atonement of Jesus Christ and especially how can we access the power 553 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,520 of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives. So I'm looking forward to those. 554 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:17,560 Yeah, a lot of great stuff to look forward to there. This has been an awesome day. 555 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,840 It's a great opportunity to be with you, Dave, to fill of your spirit, to learn from you what you 556 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:30,840 know, to experience and have experiences from other people as we've shared stories, etc. And if 557 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:36,760 man come unto me, I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may 558 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:42,920 be humble and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me. For if they 559 00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:52,600 humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then hear this, then will I make weak things become 560 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:59,000 strong unto them. I know that's absolutely true. I've seen it. I've witnessed it, not just in my own 561 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:06,840 life, but in I can't tell you how many lives around me that weak things can become strong 562 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:17,000 unto us, unto them, unto us through through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Savior and Redeemer. 563 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:24,200 And that's the only way. That is exactly how and that's the only way. Great day. Do you have 564 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:30,440 anything else? Thank you so much. It's such an important topic. I just pray I had an experience 565 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:36,840 years ago, Scott, where the man that wrote the Bible dictionary, Robert J. Matthews, he came to 566 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:43,960 Minnesota. I was happened to be the area director at the time in the Midwest over seminaries and 567 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:49,320 institutes. And I had invited him to come and to teach us about the Old Testament because the 568 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:55,720 following year was going to be the Old Testament in seminaries. And I had all I had the several 569 00:55:55,720 --> 00:56:02,840 Institute directors, coordinators there in this training. And he he wanted to stay in my home. 570 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:07,880 We had had a kind of a relationship before I had moved back to the Midwest. And I loved Brother 571 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:14,280 Matthews so much. And so he stayed in my home. And the night before this training was to begin, 572 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:20,520 I said, Brother Matthews, I wondered how you would feel about us tomorrow as we begin this 573 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:26,520 this week long seminar on the Old Testament. How would you feel tomorrow if we just talked about 574 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:33,160 the fall of Adam and Eve and the fall of all mankind? What if we spent six to eight hours 575 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:43,400 on the atonement or on the fall of Adam and Eve? And he looked at me like, really, are you serious? 576 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:54,680 And he said, David, all of my life, I have wanted to spend eight hours teaching about the fall of 577 00:56:54,680 --> 00:57:03,960 Adam and Eve. He was so happy. And the next day, he was prepared and ready. And we went through all 578 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:11,320 of the scriptures in all of the standard works that talked about the necessity, the importance, 579 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:19,640 and the reasons why there needed to be a fall of Adam and Eve and what a blessing the fall is in 580 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:28,200 each of our lives. I pray that today, maybe besides other things that we've accomplished, that all of 581 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:36,920 our listeners will maybe offer that prayer to thank God for the fall of Adam and Eve, and to thank 582 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:44,760 God for their own personal fall and the mortal experiences that we have every day, which teach 583 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:52,760 us that the purpose of this life is to learn to rely upon a redeemer and savior and to feel the 584 00:57:52,760 --> 00:58:03,480 love of God in our lives. As you do that, I would just cosign that challenge. As we do that, 585 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:09,880 you're definitely bound to have some sacred experiences. And I wouldn't want to encroach on 586 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:16,040 that. However, if you do have experiences that you felt would be shareable to us, please send 587 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:24,120 those to heredeemsusatgmail.com. If you would rather those not be talked about on air, we're 588 00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:30,120 happy to do that. Just make that request as part of your email. This has been a great day, a great 589 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:36,760 opportunity once again to talk about things that are not just important, but literally life saving, 590 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:45,320 eternal life saving too. This is where the rubber hits the road in all things. This is exactly where 591 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:51,560 it takes place is through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Savior. Why did we need it? We need 592 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:57,000 it because of the fall. Why did we need the fall? We need the fall so that we could put on the Atonement 593 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:02,120 and it's a round and round it goes and what a blessing it is for us. I'm so grateful. Thanks 594 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:07,400 for the challenge, Dave, to pray for that. A couple of other things, folks, is we've been listening. 595 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:14,120 I'm sure that you've had an impression or two. Maybe go back, record that impression, look for 596 00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:19,160 whether the Holy Spirit is talking to you, look for opportunities in your lives. And I'll extend 597 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:27,640 that invitation to David and myself as well. That as those things start to unfold and become 598 00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:33,400 clear in our lives through the Holy Spirit, through the Comforter, I just pray that we'll have the 599 00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:39,960 ability to follow through and maybe start to see an effect, a changing effect in our lives 600 00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:46,840 through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Savior. Again, he redeems us at gmail.com. Please send us 601 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:51,560 your emails while you're in there. If you would like and leave reviews, we very much appreciate 602 00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:57,000 that as well. This has been a great day for us. We hope it has for you as well. Take care, everybody, 603 00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:17,160 and God bless.