WEBVTT 00:00:02.129 --> 00:00:08.330 So, Deb, I got a question for you. It's a little 00:00:08.330 --> 00:00:10.589 bit of an awkward question for a husband, maybe, 00:00:10.589 --> 00:00:13.810 to ask his wife, but I need to ask this question. 00:00:13.910 --> 00:00:16.289 I think this is something that's kind of really 00:00:16.289 --> 00:00:19.589 important, but why are relationships so complicated? 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:24.109 Why are they so difficult? Some people would 00:00:24.109 --> 00:00:29.129 even say, why are they so hard? Even, it seems 00:00:29.129 --> 00:00:32.039 like, even when you love someone, You know even 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:34.719 when you're trying your very hardest doing everything 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.579 you potentially and possibly can can it inevitably 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:43.600 seems like Somehow things still they can break 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.679 down. You know you get hurt or they get hurt 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:51.200 For long you're stuck in these vicious cycles. 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:55.200 You don't know how to get out of You know, Gang, 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.560 if you've ever felt that, this episode's for 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.759 you. Deb, I think some of the most painful parts 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:05.140 of life happens inside of relationships. Yeah, 00:01:05.140 --> 00:01:07.739 because oftentimes, the people we love are the 00:01:07.739 --> 00:01:11.120 ones that hurt us the most. It's true. Whether 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.359 it's in a marriage, whether it's a sibling, a 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:18.599 parent, a child, whatever, but yeah, I get it. 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.420 relationships can be hard. The hard thing is 00:01:22.420 --> 00:01:25.900 you know I remember going to a counselor a while 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:30.420 ago and they they they showed me the parent and 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:34.760 child the husband and wife and if a husband is 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.599 treating a wife like a child or a husband's treating 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:42.140 a wife like a spouse, we need to revamp it. It's 00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:44.420 like, you know, we forget sometimes our roles 00:01:44.420 --> 00:01:47.340 and sometimes - In relationships. In relationships, 00:01:47.620 --> 00:01:50.239 yeah. And it's like, I have adult children and 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:53.120 one of the hardest things for me is to remember 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:55.900 I am unemployed. My children do not need parenting 00:01:55.900 --> 00:02:00.760 unless they come to me for advice. I mean, they 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.159 don't need, they don't want my advice. I think, 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:06.200 you know, when I'm talking about relationships, 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:08.400 you know, I think the first thing that everybody 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:12.000 jumps to, and I would too, you know, is the relationship 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.520 that I have with you, my spouse, right? For sure, 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:17.439 for sure. And, you know, we have a pretty great 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:20.060 relationship, but, you know, we have tension 00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:25.340 from time to time too. But this really plays 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:28.180 into every relationship that we have. Even sometimes, 00:02:28.180 --> 00:02:31.319 you know, we just kind of, I think when I... 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:33.960 When I say we kind of do this, I probably am 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:37.259 just mostly talking about myself, but I discount 00:02:37.259 --> 00:02:39.400 some of the other relationships that are probably 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:43.319 pretty important. I remember Jesus telling his 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.599 disciples, when thou art converted, strengthen 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:50.020 thy brethren. And I don't always do that. If 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:52.599 I'm not in a great mood and somebody cuts me 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:54.599 off. What about your sister? What about your 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:56.819 wife? That's what it's talking about. It's just 00:02:56.819 --> 00:03:01.030 talking about everybody. But when we're talking 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:07.530 about having relationships, and when we're finding 00:03:07.530 --> 00:03:09.889 them difficult, these relationships aren't just 00:03:09.889 --> 00:03:13.330 about our spouses, or just about our kids, or 00:03:13.330 --> 00:03:16.949 just about our work people, or just, it's every 00:03:16.949 --> 00:03:20.530 relationship. Sure, work, neighbors. I think 00:03:20.530 --> 00:03:26.560 it's oftentimes difficult because of I mean, 00:03:26.659 --> 00:03:31.680 when you feel misunderstood or unseen or trying, 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.479 but you know, like, sometimes I just wanna come 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:39.960 home and vent and I don't want anybody to, I 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:42.080 don't want anybody to fix this. I just wanna 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:44.439 be really mad right now and I just wanna tell 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:48.400 you how terrible rotten this situation was. So 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.599 I want you to hear. But did I say that before 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.740 when I came home and I started venting at you? 00:03:54.099 --> 00:03:56.539 I mean, you're like, who do I need to go kill? 00:03:56.680 --> 00:03:58.780 I'll just get my truck right now and go take 00:03:58.780 --> 00:04:02.240 care of it. See, this is the funny thing because 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.139 we're just kind of a little bit wired differently. 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:08.759 100%. And that's one of the important things 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:11.800 that we need to understand. But I'm wired differently. 00:04:12.099 --> 00:04:14.439 I mean, I get that we're wired differently, but 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:18.459 there's some times you want me to listen to just 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:19.459 hear. Yeah. You don't want me to respond. And 00:04:19.459 --> 00:04:21.300 I don't think we're wired differently in that 00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:25.379 respect. No, or fix it or whatever. But that's 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:28.500 what I'm saying. But sometimes you just feel 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:32.180 like, and then oftentimes I want validation. 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:34.810 I want to tell you how I'm feeling and I want 00:04:34.810 --> 00:04:37.470 you to validate how I feel. Now, I'm not telling 00:04:37.470 --> 00:04:39.430 you, Scott, I'm going to tell you this right 00:04:39.430 --> 00:04:40.689 now because I'm really frustrated and I want 00:04:40.689 --> 00:04:43.410 you to validate why I'm so mad, or I want you 00:04:43.410 --> 00:04:46.069 to validate why I'm so excited. And you may not 00:04:46.069 --> 00:04:49.290 be as excited as I am about this story that I'm 00:04:49.290 --> 00:04:53.649 telling you, or you may not want to fix the story, 00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:56.269 or you honestly may not want to listen to this 00:04:56.269 --> 00:04:59.870 story, truth be known. But that's the other part 00:04:59.870 --> 00:05:04.259 of going, Kay, can you just humor me? Maybe just 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:08.139 listen for a minute. I think that's the difficult 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:10.819 part of relationships because sometimes when 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:14.060 I come in hot and I've got a lot of emotion, 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:15.879 whether it's anger, whether it's excitement, 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.139 whatever it is, I haven't given you the preface 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:21.279 of this is how you're supposed to respond to 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:25.279 this story. And I think in relationships, I think 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:29.920 that's kind of a given. You know what I mean? 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.720 It's like men are super simple. I mean, in general, 00:05:35.300 --> 00:05:38.420 they don't get into the drama. And even there's 00:05:38.420 --> 00:05:39.980 often times when some of our daughters will tell 00:05:39.980 --> 00:05:42.079 us a story and you're like, get to the point, 00:05:42.180 --> 00:05:43.920 get to the point. You're giving me too much information. 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:46.399 And I'm like, no, I want all the details. Yeah, 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.240 that is true. I don't say get to the point, get 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.579 to the point. I'm much more subtle than that. 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:55.089 I do it through body language. Facial expressions, 00:05:55.149 --> 00:05:58.610 but but you said that there is my confession. 00:05:58.750 --> 00:06:04.089 Yeah, but it's true, right? It's true It can 00:06:04.089 --> 00:06:08.029 be for sure it can be and you know and it goes 00:06:08.029 --> 00:06:12.589 on every side Everybody is in a situation. It 00:06:12.589 --> 00:06:14.949 doesn't matter which side of the relationship 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:20.519 you're on We all are in situations where We're 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.839 vulnerable. We're just vulnerable to pain and 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.699 confusion and misunderstanding, and I think you 00:06:26.699 --> 00:06:31.819 even said being unseen, or feeling unseen. Never 00:06:31.819 --> 00:06:36.379 does being or feeling, or the perception of being 00:06:36.379 --> 00:06:41.519 or feeling unseen have more impact than it does 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.360 in meaningful relationships. If I feel unseen 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.740 by people that, eh, whatever. It doesn't mean 00:06:48.740 --> 00:06:53.740 much, at least not as much as it would to feel 00:06:53.740 --> 00:06:56.399 unseen by somebody that I really feel like I'm 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.100 in a meaningful relationship with. Be that a 00:07:00.100 --> 00:07:05.399 parent, a friend, a sibling, a spouse, a parent 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:09.399 even, right? All of those other things. Maybe 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:12.959 the reason the relationships are so hard is because 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:17.339 we're trying... to get validation or do something 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:20.240 horizontally that was never meant to be done 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:24.420 by anyone but the Savior. What do you mean by 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:28.699 that? Oftentimes, if I'm feeling insecure, that's 00:07:28.699 --> 00:07:33.060 not a Scott issue. That's a Deb and God issue. 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:40.240 I mean, sometimes if I'm feeling sad or maybe 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.379 even And I won't even say, you know, not feeling 00:07:43.379 --> 00:07:45.199 the spirit, because I don't always recognize 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.399 it as that. I feel not good enough. And so then 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.500 I try to find that validation through you or 00:07:51.500 --> 00:07:56.980 my children or my parents or whatever. But I 00:07:56.980 --> 00:07:59.800 think oftentimes we put a lot of expectations 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:07.079 on our physical relationships instead of relying 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.279 wholly on Jesus Christ. who is the ultimate healer 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:17.560 of our broken relationship. Because we've talked 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.680 about before how covenant is a relationship and 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:25.079 how the most important relationship is with God. 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:28.600 And once we exercise and we realize that, then 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.519 we can step into, you know, having a relationship 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.039 with a spouse and then having relationships with 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:36.440 children. And we don't understand as a child, 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:40.299 the relationship a child to a parent is really 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:43.500 until we become a parent. So I think, I think 00:08:43.500 --> 00:08:46.759 the whole relationship is all in divine order, 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:53.460 you know, to help us grow and understand God's 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:57.240 really, our relationship with Jesus Christ and 00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:00.120 Heavenly Father. You said something a minute 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:04.799 ago about something about him being horizontal. 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.940 What did you say about that? The relationships 00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:13.840 are hard because we're trying to do something 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.759 horizontally, meaning I'm trying to find my personal 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:22.340 validation, my security through my spouse, my 00:09:22.340 --> 00:09:24.559 parent, my child, whatever. Instead of through 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:26.240 Christ. Instead of through Jesus Christ. So, 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.100 but going back, I don't remember an episode we 00:09:29.100 --> 00:09:32.340 did, was it in season four, maybe even in season 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:35.399 five, when we talked about the difference between 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:38.299 the horizontal relationship and the vertical 00:09:38.299 --> 00:09:42.370 relationship, right? obviously the imagery being 00:09:42.370 --> 00:09:46.690 the cross of Jesus Christ, right? But yeah, I 00:09:46.690 --> 00:09:50.470 love that. And I think, when I think about that, 00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:55.490 my relationships tend to be, as they are horizontal, 00:09:56.070 --> 00:09:58.629 tend to be a lot more confusing, a lot more complex, 00:09:58.830 --> 00:10:04.070 a lot more dependent on certain stimuli or response 00:10:04.070 --> 00:10:07.629 or whatever. Outcomes, right? Just basically 00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:10.169 outcomes. Said the outcome business. Yeah, again, 00:10:10.629 --> 00:10:12.789 last week we talked about how important it is 00:10:12.789 --> 00:10:15.029 to get out of the outcome business when we turn 00:10:15.029 --> 00:10:16.629 our will and our life over to the care of God. 00:10:16.730 --> 00:10:21.750 We really can't do that if we are dependent on 00:10:21.750 --> 00:10:24.129 horizontal relationships to give us those things 00:10:24.129 --> 00:10:26.850 that you were talking about. Validation, peace, 00:10:27.409 --> 00:10:30.970 security, motivation for change, even impetus 00:10:30.970 --> 00:10:36.639 for change, et cetera. Well, when I expect you 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:39.779 to feel something in me that only Jesus Christ 00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:43.620 can, I will eventually resent you, because you 00:10:43.620 --> 00:10:48.299 can't do it. You'll fail. And that's not just 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:52.110 me and you, but me and any... body else that 00:10:52.110 --> 00:10:54.350 isn't perfect, that isn't my savior. Anybody 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:58.610 or anything even. Or anything, yes. And I think 00:10:58.610 --> 00:11:01.309 that we're not gonna spend time on that, but 00:11:01.309 --> 00:11:04.309 even our relationships with other things. For 00:11:04.309 --> 00:11:07.490 sure. Education, social media, I mean, some of 00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:09.230 those things can be positive, some of those things 00:11:09.230 --> 00:11:12.710 can be terribly negative, but nonetheless, are 00:11:12.710 --> 00:11:16.730 they a horizontal relationship or a vertical 00:11:16.730 --> 00:11:18.750 relationship? Exactly, and where are we trying 00:11:18.750 --> 00:11:21.980 to get our validation from? I love that, Deb. 00:11:22.899 --> 00:11:27.360 When I think about how relationships and all 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.759 of that are at work in my life, relationships 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:34.850 are... arguably among the most important experiences 00:11:34.850 --> 00:11:38.049 that I will experience in mortality, actually, 00:11:38.149 --> 00:11:41.509 and we know this through Revelation scripture 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:43.929 and even before Revelation scripture, we know 00:11:43.929 --> 00:11:47.450 this, that relationships are not only important 00:11:47.450 --> 00:11:49.830 in mortality, they're important in eternity. 00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:54.899 And we put a big exclamation point behind that, 00:11:54.919 --> 00:12:00.039 and you talked about this a minute ago, as we 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.500 consistently engage in the repentance process, 00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:08.759 which leads us to a covenant relationship. Going 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:12.639 along those lines, I think it's important for 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:17.379 me to remember that I am a daughter of a God. 00:12:18.210 --> 00:12:22.769 I have heavenly parents who love me. And all 00:12:22.769 --> 00:12:26.450 of our listeners are a son or a daughter of a 00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:30.710 God of heavenly parents who love them perfectly. 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:35.350 I mean, divinity. It's like that's remember who 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:38.149 we are and whose we are. I think sometimes we 00:12:38.149 --> 00:12:40.610 get down here in the muddle and the mess and 00:12:40.610 --> 00:12:44.129 we forget who we really are because one day we 00:12:44.129 --> 00:12:46.950 will all go home. He's in relentless pursuit. 00:12:47.210 --> 00:12:50.970 He loves us. He wants us home and he wants to 00:12:50.970 --> 00:12:53.929 take us home. I think that's such a great reminder 00:12:53.929 --> 00:12:58.889 in the big picture, the vertical relationship, 00:12:59.210 --> 00:13:04.009 because when we know that and we feel that, it 00:13:04.009 --> 00:13:07.330 changes my horizontal relationships. Well, it 00:13:07.330 --> 00:13:10.490 speaks to our identity. Yeah. And our identity 00:13:10.490 --> 00:13:16.279 determines our destiny. Eternity. Oh, yes. Right. 00:13:16.460 --> 00:13:21.120 Yeah. And you know, This reminds me so it's okay 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.440 first off. It's okay It's okay that our relationships 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.419 are going to be complicated that they're going 00:13:26.419 --> 00:13:28.399 to struggle that we're going to hurt each other 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.980 I don't think we should intend to hurt each other 00:13:30.980 --> 00:13:35.740 Etc but we are going to make mistakes in relationships 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:37.940 and the biggest mistakes that we're potentially 00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:40.740 going to make in our relationships are the ones 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:44.600 that we That we hold dearest to us. It just seems 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.860 that that's always going to be the case Well, 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:51.700 we talk about, Deb, that the answer to all of 00:13:51.700 --> 00:13:55.039 our problems when we did this with Nick and Crystal 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:58.139 is we approached step two from Alcoholics Anonymous 00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:00.740 in February, in our episode in February where 00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:03.620 we did step two, where we identified that it 00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:06.580 is only through him, that it's only through our 00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:10.029 Savior Jesus Christ. the higher power we identify 00:14:10.029 --> 00:14:13.450 in AA, but it's only through him that these things 00:14:13.450 --> 00:14:16.649 can change or these things can be made right 00:14:16.649 --> 00:14:19.570 in our lives. And again, here we go back right 00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:21.429 to the same scripture that it seems like we go 00:14:21.429 --> 00:14:23.990 to every week, but this is in Mosiah, chapter 00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:27.090 three, verse 19. For the natural man is an enemy 00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:30.909 to God, so the natural man, that's me in complicated 00:14:30.909 --> 00:14:34.179 relationships. That's everyone that walks this 00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:37.360 planet. And that complicated relationship, natural 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:43.580 man, makes me an enemy to God. In what way? Is 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:46.659 an enemy to God and has been from the fall of 00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:50.490 Adam and will be forever and ever. Unless. He 00:14:50.490 --> 00:14:53.350 yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and 00:14:53.350 --> 00:14:56.429 putteth off the natural man and becomeeth a saint 00:14:56.429 --> 00:14:58.690 through the atonement of the Lord and becomeeth 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:01.490 as a child submissive, me, humble, patient, full 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:06.649 of love, et cetera. So it is only through the 00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:10.720 atonement of Jesus Christ. that we can have these 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.080 relationships here on earth, these horizontal 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:19.179 relationships, have anything, have peace, have 00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:22.980 the elimination or the conclusion of complicated 00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:27.860 or contentious. I guess, Deb, then the answer 00:15:27.860 --> 00:15:34.899 to all of my relationship problems is Him. It 00:15:34.899 --> 00:15:39.000 reminds me of the serenity prayer. Um, and I'm 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.059 going to share it even though most of us know 00:15:41.059 --> 00:15:44.860 it, but it's God grant me the serenity to accept 00:15:44.860 --> 00:15:47.360 the things. And I always say on people, I cannot 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.779 change the courage to change the things I can 00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.860 and the wisdom to know the difference. And I 00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:56.399 think that's one of the most important prayers 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.700 that I say when I'm dealing with an individual 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:06.490 or, you know, cause again, I, I have this tendency 00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:08.889 to be in the outcome business and quickly remember 00:16:08.889 --> 00:16:12.289 I'm not in the outcome business. And so it's, 00:16:12.289 --> 00:16:15.149 I think it's important to remember I can change 00:16:15.149 --> 00:16:19.590 only me. And when I have that relationship open 00:16:19.590 --> 00:16:23.090 and honest with God through Jesus Christ, that's 00:16:23.090 --> 00:16:27.169 the only way I can have serenity. Grant me the 00:16:27.169 --> 00:16:30.659 serenity. And boy, do we all want serenity in 00:16:30.659 --> 00:16:34.039 today's world. When I'm in that vertical relationship 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.700 with Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ, it 00:16:37.700 --> 00:16:40.159 changes how I show up in relationships. Because 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:44.000 I often say, Heavenly Father, let me see him 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.419 or her the way that you see him. And that has 00:16:47.419 --> 00:16:50.700 worked for me. There's often times I put their 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:53.779 name in the temple and pray for them. Sometimes 00:16:53.779 --> 00:16:55.700 if I can't pray for somebody that I'm really 00:16:55.700 --> 00:16:57.360 mad at, I'll just put their names in the temple. 00:16:57.500 --> 00:16:59.620 I can type their names in the prayer roll or 00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:03.139 write it. But it's one of those things that it's 00:17:03.139 --> 00:17:06.180 like, please help me see them. Because I know 00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:09.819 we are all divine beings. And I think that has 00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:12.759 been a gift for me to be able to just ask to 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.859 see that and to help me see people. differently. 00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:20.700 Yeah. Me too. Yeah. Me too. And, and I know that 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:23.599 you've been judged. I've been judged, you know, 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.660 and I know what that feels like. And in my mind, 00:17:26.660 --> 00:17:28.700 it was probably worse than I, than I actually 00:17:28.700 --> 00:17:32.099 thought it was, but, but I've judged and you 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:35.359 know, I know what that feels like to be on the 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.039 other, to feel like I'm on the other side of 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.710 being judged because you don't really know. You 00:17:40.710 --> 00:17:42.789 don't really know me. How can you judge me? Well, 00:17:42.789 --> 00:17:46.329 yet I have taken the liberty to assume that I 00:17:46.329 --> 00:17:48.170 knew somebody well enough to judge them on the 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:51.369 other side. And, you know, that is just not the 00:17:51.369 --> 00:17:57.210 behavior of our Savior. To approach a relationship 00:17:57.210 --> 00:18:00.410 through Him the way He would, it would include 00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:02.329 those things that you just talked about. It would 00:18:02.329 --> 00:18:06.059 include compassion. It would include the ability 00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:08.680 to see people differently, to see them as people 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:13.680 who have struggles, who have battles and wars 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.500 that I can't even see, or potentially maybe not 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:22.279 even imagine. It's only through him actually, 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.970 Deb, that a softening can happen in me. instead 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:32.150 of just reacting to certain behaviors or certain 00:18:32.150 --> 00:18:36.210 observances or whatever, and reacting physically 00:18:36.210 --> 00:18:39.529 or reacting inside of myself, I don't know. But 00:18:39.529 --> 00:18:44.769 sometimes if I, not sometimes, every time that 00:18:44.769 --> 00:18:48.109 I approach a relationship through our Savior 00:18:48.109 --> 00:18:50.309 Jesus Christ, there's a softening that takes 00:18:50.309 --> 00:18:54.650 place. Well, and I remember a conference talk 00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:58.490 that said, or maybe it was just something in 00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:01.269 the Leona, I'm not sure, but it basically said, 00:19:01.829 --> 00:19:03.809 treat everybody as if they are going through 00:19:03.809 --> 00:19:06.029 one of the most challenging times of their lives. 00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:10.789 And most of the time you'll be right. You know, 00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:15.339 oftentimes we get... privy to some of the challenges 00:19:15.339 --> 00:19:17.640 people go through. And it's easy to have compassion 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:19.759 when somebody's going through challenges. But 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.799 when you don't know what somebody's going through 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.079 and they're cutting you off in traffic or they're 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.940 flipping you off or whatever. I mean, I always 00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:30.319 play this silly little game. It's like, maybe 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.680 they just found out or their parent passed away. 00:19:33.140 --> 00:19:35.079 Maybe their child just got in a car accident. 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.160 It's like, I really do play the what if game. 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.529 I'm not perfect at it. I believe me, but You 00:19:40.529 --> 00:19:42.930 know, we all have crap we're going through and 00:19:42.930 --> 00:19:45.769 it's hard. Sometimes the relationship with ourself 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.529 is hard. And I mean, then we could go down a 00:19:48.529 --> 00:19:51.009 whole other rabbit hole on that one. And it's 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:54.990 like, we just need to get vertical and remember 00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:59.430 who we are and whose we are. So where we get 00:19:59.430 --> 00:20:02.410 triggered or whatever in any relationship, we 00:20:02.410 --> 00:20:06.069 just need to pause before we react and taking 00:20:06.069 --> 00:20:10.470 a hurt to the savior, pray for them. Instead 00:20:10.470 --> 00:20:14.769 of weaponizing it or just letting go of the control, 00:20:14.809 --> 00:20:17.970 again, back to the serenity, grant me the serenity 00:20:17.970 --> 00:20:20.789 to accept the things I cannot change and the 00:20:20.789 --> 00:20:23.710 people I can't change. I love the serenity prayer 00:20:23.710 --> 00:20:27.430 for that. And you say something there, or the 00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:32.849 people I cannot change. I gotta admit, this is 00:20:32.849 --> 00:20:37.069 one that's difficult for me. I don't really... 00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:40.640 own the delusion that I have the power to change 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.279 others, but I think that I see things in others 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.000 sometimes that needs to be changed and I feel 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:51.200 like it's my job to help them do it. You laugh. 00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:55.170 Well, I'm not I'm not sure what you mean by that 00:20:55.170 --> 00:21:00.309 because you've witnessed it No, I'm being serious, 00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:03.650 you know and this this really shows up and it 00:21:03.650 --> 00:21:06.569 used to show up more only because it was allowed 00:21:06.569 --> 00:21:09.289 today My kids are all adults and it's not even 00:21:09.289 --> 00:21:12.230 potentially possible like but with my kids Yeah, 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:15.009 right parenting gives you the illusion of control. 00:21:15.009 --> 00:21:18.240 Yeah. How do I fix them? Yes Yeah. Well, you 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:19.619 stop them from running in the street, you just 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:22.240 save their life. Exactly. You know, so when they're 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.839 little, you are mostly in control. Yeah. I mean, 00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:28.700 and I think that's the illusion of I can control 00:21:28.700 --> 00:21:30.819 this. And then they get bigger and they exercise 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:33.460 agency. And we're stuck in the delusion. God 00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:37.460 grant me the serenity. Or we're stuck in the 00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:41.450 delusion of I have earned enough respect that 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.049 I should be able to control just by my suggestion. 00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:47.930 You know what I mean? I hear what you're saying. 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.160 But honestly, that's a trigger for me because 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.980 I don't want no adult telling me how to live 00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:56.900 my life. Whether it's my spouse or my parent. 00:21:57.019 --> 00:21:59.839 I don't either and you know that about me, right? 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:04.059 That's one of the things about me that I really 00:22:04.059 --> 00:22:05.940 struggle. I was at a meeting just the other day 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:10.460 introducing somebody and it was a speaker meeting 00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:13.160 for alcoholics anonymous and I was introducing 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:16.099 somebody that I sponsor and the person in charge 00:22:16.099 --> 00:22:19.029 says, stand here. wanted me to go around and 00:22:19.029 --> 00:22:20.750 stand on the other side of the table. I said, 00:22:20.890 --> 00:22:24.049 no, I'll just stand right here. And then I thought 00:22:24.049 --> 00:22:26.710 afterwards, how hard would it have been for me 00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:29.329 to just go around there and stand there. So I 00:22:29.329 --> 00:22:31.789 get it. I don't like to be told what to do. I 00:22:31.789 --> 00:22:34.049 don't like to be controlled either. But what's 00:22:34.049 --> 00:22:36.309 even worse is when I'm in the outcome business 00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:39.269 and when I'm in the outcome business and I approach 00:22:39.269 --> 00:22:41.970 a relationship and that relationship is about 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:44.559 helping them Right? You can see the air quotes. 00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:46.759 My fingers make them quotes. I'm watching you. 00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:51.400 Helping them. Am I really helping them? If I'm 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.460 giving them advice and direction that they don't 00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:58.420 want, that they don't maybe probably even need. 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:03.339 Now, by my outcome barometer, they need it. But 00:23:03.339 --> 00:23:06.279 where am I mistaken here? You know, where am 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:09.559 I? And so where am I mistaken here? The problem 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:13.400 is, is I have actually jumped into And I hate 00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:16.299 to say this, but I've jumped into the road that 00:23:16.299 --> 00:23:19.160 I should be assigning to him, to the Savior. 00:23:19.299 --> 00:23:22.539 Yeah, so you think you're gonna save him. I remember, 00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:25.259 and I hope it's okay that I share this, sorry 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.960 Jess if it's not, but my oldest daughter when 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.500 she decided to marry, he was an only child that 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:35.140 had assault charges against his mother. And it 00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:37.779 red flagged me. I told her, I said, honey there's 00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:40.099 a difference between a red flag and a neon blinking 00:23:40.099 --> 00:23:43.079 Vegas sign. And I said, I can't support this 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:47.519 marriage. And I even encouraged her to live with 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.700 him before because I knew where this marriage 00:23:49.700 --> 00:23:52.339 was going to go. And I remember a dear friend 00:23:52.339 --> 00:23:55.710 of mine said, Why are you getting in the way 00:23:55.710 --> 00:23:59.990 of her experience? Why are you stepping in front 00:23:59.990 --> 00:24:04.390 of her? Opportunity to learn and grow you're 00:24:04.390 --> 00:24:06.349 just making her mad and I did make her mad and 00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:08.809 she got mad and moved across the country and 00:24:08.809 --> 00:24:12.650 she was married to this guy for 11 months and 00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:15.089 it turned out exact well not exactly because 00:24:15.089 --> 00:24:17.509 I honestly thought he was gonna kill her he was 00:24:17.509 --> 00:24:21.890 he's that man scared me and I did not want my 00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:24.589 daughter to go across the country with him And 00:24:24.589 --> 00:24:27.269 then I just prayed like crazy that God would 00:24:27.269 --> 00:24:34.490 protect her and it was so scary. So scary. But 00:24:34.490 --> 00:24:40.789 I knew that God was, he was hers and that he 00:24:40.789 --> 00:24:44.289 would protect her if it was his will. And I think 00:24:44.289 --> 00:24:46.609 that's, that's honestly where it was because 00:24:46.609 --> 00:24:48.529 I knew that would keep her safe if she stayed 00:24:48.529 --> 00:24:52.150 here. But you know what? I was robbing her of 00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:58.059 the law of agency. I was jumping in the Savior. 00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:02.079 I was trying to be her Savior, which is ridiculous. 00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:05.259 And I think that's what brings up the question. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.000 The question is, is how do you do that? How do 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:13.059 I actually bring Christ into how I see and respond 00:25:13.059 --> 00:25:16.640 to situations like that? Pray really, really, 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:20.200 really hard. How do I change from a horizontal 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:24.230 approach to a vertical approach? on things like 00:25:24.230 --> 00:25:27.250 that. And as a parent, and those of us who have 00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:30.369 been parents with kids that are over the age 00:25:30.369 --> 00:25:34.549 of three or four understand the difficulties 00:25:34.549 --> 00:25:38.470 that we can sometimes witness at the difficult 00:25:38.470 --> 00:25:40.670 decisions our kids make that can sometimes bring 00:25:40.670 --> 00:25:44.089 pain to them. Yeah. And I think the important 00:25:44.089 --> 00:25:46.609 message, the sweetheart message in all of this 00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:54.400 for me is in the middle of the mess, I can change 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:59.240 in the middle of it if I rely wholly and W -H 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:04.759 -O -L -L -Y, wholly, completely on him. And that's 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:10.119 what I had to do in this situation with my oldest 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:14.019 daughter. I just was terrified that this guy 00:26:14.019 --> 00:26:16.380 was going to, I did not know if she would make 00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:21.759 it back alive. He was abusive and he scared me. 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:30.339 And so when Christ is in the middle, even in 00:26:30.339 --> 00:26:34.559 difficult relationships, it stops defining me. 00:26:35.019 --> 00:26:40.559 So I think that's so critical for me to remember. 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.220 And some relationships may not change. It may 00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:47.220 take 11 months, it may take 11 years, it may 00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:50.039 take 11 decades. And it may not happen in this 00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:56.049 lifetime. Exactly. But again, grant me the serenity 00:26:56.049 --> 00:26:58.849 to change the things, or how does it go? God 00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:02.009 grant me the serenity. To accept the things I 00:27:02.009 --> 00:27:04.549 cannot change, the courage to change the things 00:27:04.549 --> 00:27:06.329 I can, and the wisdom to know the difference 00:27:06.329 --> 00:27:09.730 because there are things where we have no power. 00:27:10.349 --> 00:27:14.269 However, we always have power. to turn our will 00:27:14.269 --> 00:27:16.529 and our life over to the care of God as we understand 00:27:16.529 --> 00:27:19.309 him, as we talked about last week. And as we, 00:27:19.390 --> 00:27:22.650 how do we do that? How we do that is in moments 00:27:22.650 --> 00:27:25.450 like this, in relationships. And then sometimes 00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:27.509 in those relationships, that's where we really 00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:32.190 get our metal tested the most. Being with us 00:27:32.190 --> 00:27:34.309 and talking about relationships. I know this 00:27:34.309 --> 00:27:37.809 can be a trigger for some and some of you have 00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:40.849 got it figured out But just so you know, we don't 00:27:40.849 --> 00:27:43.410 and we're still trying to figure it out. But 00:27:43.410 --> 00:27:48.259 if this episode or or this resonated. You can 00:27:48.259 --> 00:27:50.160 share it with somebody who might be struggling 00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.960 in a relationship no matter what kind of relationship 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.279 it is right now or anyone that needs a little 00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:59.220 more Jesus in their lives. We love you. We appreciate 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:02.799 you being with us. We feel like we have so many 00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:05.480 friends out there and I hope you all feel our 00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:11.099 love as we share vulnerably with you. And I love, 00:28:11.259 --> 00:28:13.700 Deb, that you reminded us that, you know, when 00:28:13.700 --> 00:28:15.960 Christ is in the middle, even broken relationships 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.859 can stop defining us. I'm gonna hang on to that 00:28:18.859 --> 00:28:21.200 this week. Let that be the invitation for us 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.599 all this week. Thanks for being with us, everybody. 00:28:24.339 --> 00:28:25.440 We'll see you again next week.