Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another
episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. I'm Scott
Durfey, and that's Princess Deb. Oh, gosh. We
don't need a title. Hi, Deb. Hello. How are you?
You can just say Scott and Deb. I did. I said
Scott and Princess Deb. You don't need to go
there. We're good. Hello, friends. Hello, everyone.
Thanks, everybody, for your emails reaching out.
For those of you who didn't know, you can always
do that. He redeems us at gmail .com. We're receiving
quite a few emails, actually, from Some of our
Institute students, we've invited them to ask
questions. We'll be including a lot of those
questions. We already did one two weeks ago or
two episodes ago. We'll be including more of
those as we go throughout this season. Just so
many great insights. I love those kids, Doug.
They're unbelievable this semester. I don't know
what it is. I don't know if it's Heavenly Father's
blessing us because it's our last semester that
we'll be teaching Institute. It's our grand finale.
So he's like, well. We'll teach you this semester.
I'm going to because of all of their efforts
that they've had in the past. I'm going to go
ahead and bless them with this. And it feels
like, holy cow, we are definitely being blessed.
So speaking of Institute, you remember my friend
Nick? I always remember Nick. Do you know Nick's
teaching institute? I did not know that. Yeah,
he's teaching institute. Him and another friend
of ours are teaching institute also at BYU and
they're doing a class on addiction recovery.
Heck yes. Through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
I think they're using the ARP manual. Yeah, we
are. Oh, there you are. Hey, Nick. Hey, guys.
Surprise, surprise. We just teleported him in.
Yeah, surprise, surprise. A great treat that
we have here tonight. Y 'all will probably remember
from season four, episode 21. It was one of the
last episodes of season four. So what, 12 episodes
ago -ish, we had Nick and Crystal on here. Great
friends of ours have been for several years now,
and their story is amazing and wonderful. Hi,
Nick. Hey, guys. Hi, Crystal. Hi. I'm so glad
to have you guys back. Makes this recording a
lot more fun. We were just belly laughing right
before we pushed record. Yeah, it does. We should
have them every week. It kind of breaks. Well,
that's what we talked about, you know, after
we had so much fun with these guys last time
they were here and we got to hear about the reunion.
And, you know, we did an episode with Nick a
couple of years ago and got to hear about his
addiction recovery and his journey into all of
that. And I'm sure we'll get to hear some of
those experience, strength and hope again here
tonight. But. When we did that we decided that
maybe we should try and make it a little more
regular that we have Nick and Crystal on. Nick
and I were talking today and deciding what we
would talk about and we decided that we would
take this the step that is numerically aligned
with the month each month and kind of do a little
bit of a focus on recovery steps from Alcoholics
Anonymous and other recovery programs as well.
So this is February. And this month, we're going
to focus, or this week, we're going to focus
on step two. How appropriate. So step two, can
you remember what it is, Deb? Well, step one
is we admitted we were powerless over alcohol.
Or anything. That our lives had become unmanageable.
And because we didn't do this in January, I think
we need to hit step one. We just need to say
what that is. January is a powerless month anyway.
It lasts a whole year. It's a very long month.
Step two is came to believe that a power greater
than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Yeah,
yeah. Came to believe that a power greater than
ourselves could restore us to sanity. You know,
Deb, this is, in my opinion, this is the step.
from which all other steps kind of hinge. If
we don't have a solid relationship with this
step, step number two, then the rest of them
just don't matter. And I think that that will
become evident and obvious as we go through this
kind of process over the next 12 months now,
which we've committed to, which I'm excited about.
But what if the real question of recovery isn't
whether God exists? We have to get there. But
what if that wasn't the real question? But what
if it was instead whether he can be trusted to
finish what's broken in me? Because step two
isn't really about believing harder. It's not
working harder. It's about believing differently.
It's about establishing a relationship. It's
about understanding and developing a level of
even worship. I think even a level of worship
in Him whom I will put my trust in order for
me to be recovered, to overcome alcohol, to overcome
drugs, to overcome any, literally any of the
effects of the fall of Adam and Eve, including
sin, right? Including alcoholism. Well, and I
think just to throw my little experience in there,
I'm currently in... That way as well. I mean
experiencing that as well just because of My
circumstance and I your circumstances as I'm
unemployed And it's it's it's kind of weird me
out a little bit like I know everything's gonna
be fine like when I really commune but I have
to remember that I'm powerless and that there's
a power greater than me that can restore my employment.
So you can really apply this, if you're not an
alcoholic or a drug addict, you can apply this
to anything in your life. That's the point. Yes,
100%. That is exactly the point. Because every
one of us are fallen. And so because we're fallen,
we are cut off from access, physical access with
God. We deal with physical death, we deal with
spiritual death, and all of those things require
us at some point to realize that there's stuff
in my life I don't have power over. Well, if
I'm going to restore that power or that sanity
in my life, then I need to have a relationship
with a power who can actually do that. And that
one. is God, may you find him now. That's what
we say at the end of reading in all of Alcoholics
Anonymous. Well, so I wanna hear a lot more from
Nick and Crystal on this. Before I do though,
I think that there are three scriptures that
we wanna deal with here tonight and we'll deal
with scripture, we'll deal with other. Alcoholism,
alcoholics anonymous type of literature. Maybe
if you want to do some Al -Anon, I see you got
your Al -Anon book there. Some literature from
that, some insights, et cetera. For those that
don't know what Al -Anon is, it's a family support
for if you are related to or have someone in
your life that you are affected by alcoholism.
So an Al -Anon is a family support. Al -Anon's
actually got quite an ad campaign going on right
now on radio. I'm not aware of that. That's because
you never listen to the radio. But yeah, they're
all over the radio with Al -Anon and Alateen
and a wonderful, wonderful program, an extremely
important, not just wonderful, an important program.
Behind every alcoholic, I don't know about every,
but behind most alcoholics, a really good Al
-Anon, that's for sure. I want to talk about...
So these three scriptures, I'm just gonna read
them. We'll kind of introduce them and then we're
gonna take them as we go one by one through here
and establish why it's so important and how these
things relate to step two. So the first one is
in Matthew chapter five verse 48 and it says,
be ye therefore perfect even as your father which
is in heaven is perfect. So that sounds like
a pretty lofty. commandment or goal. He doesn't
say, you know, hey, when it's convenient or hey,
you know, if you can get around to it or he just
comes right out and it just comes right out and
says, be ye therefore perfect. There's a direction
right there. Even your father, even. as your
Father which is in heaven is perfect. And that's
an interesting scripture. We'll talk about it.
I know it presents a problem, presents a big
problem for me, just as it says. But nonetheless,
it's an important scripture. Be therefore perfect.
Now let's go to Matthew 22. All right, so let's
go to the second scriptures in Matthew. Matthew
22, we're gonna start in verse 36, which says,
Master, which is the great commandment in the
law? And Jesus said unto him, thou shalt love
the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all
thy soul, and with all thy mind. And this is
the first and great commandment. And the second
is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor
as thyself. On these two commandments, this is
the important part, on these two commandments
hang all the law and the prophets. So all the
law hangs on that commandment, to love God and
to love each other, to love our neighbors. So
is it more important then to become like Him,
the epitome of perfection, the only perfect being
that I, the only perfect being, the epitome of
perfection, is that most important? Or is it
more important to love Him? And we don't answer
that yet because we're still gonna go to one
more scripture. Let's go to John chapter 17,
verse three. And this is life eternal that they
might know thee the only true God in Jesus Christ
whom thou has sent So three really important
things one to be like him Matthew 5 48 to to
love him three to know him You know while you
were talking There was a thought that came to
mind that made me think back on like when I first
began on this journey, this journey of building
a relationship with God and with the Savior.
And in the big book, it says, we in our turn
sought the same escape with all the desperation
of drowning men. What seemed at first a flimsy
read has proved to be the loving and powerful
hand of God. Yeah. I remember when I read that.
What page? Sorry to interrupt you. What page
is that, Nick? That's page 28. In the big book
about that support edition, right? Yeah, okay
and What? What came to mind was that the most
important thing for me Was just a willingness
You know like I was desperate and something something
magical happens when when you're desperate and
you're willing, you know, I read somewhere that
that God is a gentleman. He only goes where he's
invited, but he always figures out a way to become
invited. That's what my case was. When I look
back on how the journey began, because I had
this idea that I really hope that God isn't real,
because I don't want to have to come face to
face with the things that I've done. And reading
that book, the big book, it broke some walls
down for me. I just became willing because of
what I felt. And what I felt was God was saying,
like, dude, just quit running. Let me help you,
please. And the other thought that came to mind
was, President Nelson's quote, and I can't remember
it exactly, but you know, the Lord loves effort,
you know, and the joy that we experience in life
isn't determined by our circumstances nearly
as much as our focus, I think is how it goes,
you know, and what I found was that as I focused
on gaining a relationship and just, you know,
it's kind of like going to the gym, you know,
it was just consistency. consistency each day
of putting in some effort, like, you know, that's
where the magic happened for me. I love that.
Yeah, I absolutely love that. You know, my experience
with Step 2 is kind of similar, you know. I realized
that when I came to AA, you know, and I was working
the steps in the beginning, with my first sponsor,
we did step two and he says okay I want you to
and he gave me some things to do I said I don't
need to do that I already know God I already
have I already know about God I already know
about Jesus I already know about God he was a
wise guy not a wise guy but a smart wise gentleman
and he asked me some questions about God and
it became pretty Evident to him and and and evident
enough that I was finally willing to admit it
that my relationship with God was You know, I
just thought he was just trying to get me in
trouble all the time I just thought he was looking
for things to to bust me over like a cop You
know or whatever and so, you know, I didn't not
only didn't I really love him. I feared him But
I didn't really probably love him. And I thought
I did at the best of my ability, maybe I did,
but I didn't really love him. I definitely didn't
know him, obviously. And I don't know if I had
a desire to be like him or not, but I knew I
would never be like him. So why even try? I don't
know, Crystal. Where does this come down, this
stuff kinda come down for you? Um for me, it's
funny. I feel like when I was younger I had such
Strong Knowing that God was was there that he
loved me. I you know did all the things that
I was told But as I've gotten older and I've
had a little bit more life experience It's been
a little bit more challenging for me to just
trust all the time, right? I see I see Nick and
his experience and his ability to trust. And
I think it's inspiring. I like the thought came
to understand. For me, it's like I'm walking
into the dark quite often. And it's that one
little step that I take that is illuminated a
little bit for me. There's a lot of fear usually
around it when I'm moving into something that
I'm like, God, I do not. This is hard for me,
right? This is hard for me. I'm scared, but I'm
in a trust. And I'm going to, I really do think
that with God, there's a sense of peace. You
know, Jesus is called the Prince of Peace. And
so much of it is allowing that peace to come
over me. So that I can then move forward in the
things that are scary for me. And I can come
to understand. his wisdom, his power, his strength,
as I'm kind of moving through it, it's easier
for me to see it on the other side of things.
But when I'm in it, I'm having to really trust,
I'm having to try to find that peace, regulate
myself, and accept that I'm not gonna do it perfectly.
Accept that there's parts of me that's like my
shadow side that I don't like that come out.
But I think that's the wisdom in it, is God is...
taking these scary things for me and illuminating
the parts of me that need to develop a little
bit more. And there's a resistance I can feel
from me. But if I can just kind of take a deep
breath and relax into it and trust, that's when
I come to understand or I come to believe in
this power greater than myself. I'm nodding when
Crystal talks. And it's one of those things that's
like right now, I'm trusting. When I sit in this
celestial room in the temple, I'm trusting. When
I'm reading and like communing, I'm trusting.
But when I get out in that noisy world, I get
fearful. It's like life gets life -ing. And I'm
like, I hold my breath. And so I can relate on
all levels just for the simple fact is... I have
to go back to one, I'm powerless. And knowing
and trusting are, to me, are two different things.
I trust, but I don't know yet. I thought that
I've got it. So the things that I thought that
I knew about God stood in my way. I love that
you're saying that. It's the same for me, by
the way. And that's what I find, especially with
guys that I work with, that I sponsor, you know,
like the more knowledge that I thought that I
had about God, it stood in my way from me being
able to have an experience. And one of those
things is that I need to clean myself off before
I approach God. That I need to come with... reverence,
and I need to be, you know, and it's not that
I don't need to approach God with reverence,
but I didn't think I could be honest. So, you
know, for me, a huge part of step two was learning
how to be authentic, learning how to be honest,
and then also realizing that I can't earn anything.
Like, God's grace and everything that He's going
to do is a free gift. It isn't a moral checklist,
you know, a if I do this, then I'm going to get
that. It's no, I go and I present myself and
say, here's all of it, you know, and I and this
is you know, the thing that I tell to my guys
that I sponsor is like, Listen, I want you to
get honest. And I want you to do it out loud.
And I want you to say exactly what you feel.
And it's going to feel like you're being very
disrespectful. But just trust me that on that,
you know, God can handle it. He's got his big
boy pants on, you know, he's gonna You know,
and I, I always felt like when I, I still feel
this way, you know, when I have emotions that
are playing strongly inside of me and I get honest
about it, I almost start laughing by the end
of it. You know, I feel like God's like, all
right, you feel better about it now. Now just
kind of shut up and get out of the way. Let me
show you. You know, you've had your little fit.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if we're
trying to be perfect, we lose sight of all of
that right there. You know what, that's so true,
Crystal. When I'm trying to be perfect, I make
me the issue. I should never be the issue. Jesus
Christ should always be my issue, right? If it's
up to me, then I've got it backwards. Now, you
know, we did a whole episode that just came out
last week. In fact, the most recent episode before
this one, you know, God doesn't expect us to
stay in our mess, you know, just because that's
who He is and how He is. That doesn't give us
permission to stay in our sin, to stay in our
alcoholism and our drug addiction and our whatever
part of the fall of Adam and Eve is affecting
us at that time. He doesn't give us permission
to stay. stay there, but he doesn't expect us
to become clean before we approach him for sure.
He cleans us, we don't clean ourselves. He cleans
us and he cleans us through our alignment with
him, cleans us of all of the effects of the fall
of Adam and Eve. And so, you know, that one,
understanding him and really knowing him is so
important, but I really still get tripped up
on that first one, Matthew 5 .48. Be ye therefore
perfect. And of course, perfect is, that's a
really poor translation of the Greek word. The
Greek word is telios, that the word perfect has
come from in Matthew 5 .48. And it doesn't really
mean that at all. I mean, that's one of the things
it means. It does mean perfection. but it doesn't
just mean perfection. It also means complete.
It also means mature. It also means to be finished.
It also means in any of those other things. So,
you know, when I think of it like that, you know,
be you therefore complete or complete -ed. that
only can happen by me putting on Christ's atonement
to become completed. And that's what we're talking
about, to become completed. He's not commanding
me to be flawless here, not perfect, not flawless.
He's commanding me, or rather he's inviting me
to be like him by aligning with him. And I think
that that's how, you know, that we become more
finished. It makes me think of this big magna
on our fridge that says, Not to ruin anything,
but in the end, it's all gonna be okay. And I
sometimes have to read that out loud to just,
because I get caught up in just little things
that will trip me. But I think understanding
the completeness, understanding the mature or
whole or whatever takes out that word perfect
because perfect is a trip word for me. Because
I want things. in a certain way. And I think
that's where my trust gets tripped up too is
because I, like Nick was saying, my perception
of God is nothing like I thought it was. And
I'm thinking, God, this is how I want the outcome
to be. And now I need to get back out of the
outcome business and just go back to that surrender,
that willingness, that stillness. It makes a
lot better. Yeah. Well, in that scripture is
one of those that like the way that you just,
you know, read it without diving into the different
translations is one that would have made me like
so angry before, you know, because it it's like,
oh, it's like I've got a shoulder the burden.
It's like it's all on me. And the way that I
understand that now is that You know, it's it's
me and Christ together, like we're yoked together
in this, you know, but it's something that I
have to remove myself and accept this gift from
him to allow him into my life to kind of cleanse
the soul, purify the soul, so to speak, you know,
and I kind of like each day when I'm doing prayer
and meditation, one of the things that I do is
I I invite God, I say, you know, I'm inviting
you, I open the doors to my heart, heart and
my life, and I invite you in to be my God today.
And I pictured doors opening up. But what I read
is that the doors to the soul open inward. So
you got to get yourself out of the way to bring
him in. You know, and it's one of these things
too, where I feel like the more mistakes I make,
it's like cracks, you know? It's kind of like
that idea of Kintsugi, the Japanese pottery,
you know? And that every time I make a mistake,
it's another crack. But Christ comes in and His
light shines through those cracks, you know?
So the more I mess up, the more Christ's light
can shine through me. You know, because it's
how I can relate with others. Like, it's how
I can show empathy and compassion, and through
those things, Christ comes into my life. and
changes my heart. Yeah, you know, and it deepens
our dependency on him and our willingness to
engage in that dependency. Right. Well, it's
it's it's kind of like a snowball rolling down
a mountain. You know, it's like the more momentum
it gets, the more I allow him in, the more I
need him in. The more I need Him in, the more
I'm seeking Him. The more I'm seeking Him, the
more that, you know, I've seen Him everywhere.
You know, it's one of those things where, like,
the more that I get, the more I want it. I notice
when I feel really burdened, I feel heavy, I'm
trying to do it all, right? You talk about being
yoked with Christ. That's my cue to surrender
a little bit more. When you're talking to about
being perfect I think about the word worth Worthy
and when I come across that I cross it out. I
Don't I just to be worthy. I I think more aligned
with God, right? That's just for me my own little
thing, but for me I'm looking at aligning myself
with God Because then I'm teachable There's this
thing that I talk about a lot. It's the fixed
versus the growth mindset. Have you guys heard
of that before? The fixed mindset is I am good
at math, right? Or I am perfect, or I am. And
the growth mindset is I'm good at learning hard
things. Right? So if you come to a problem in
math that you can't solve that's really challenging
for you, most, they did a study, most kids with
a fixed mindset would just stop. They wouldn't
continue. And the ones with the growth mindset,
where they would have a teacher say, you're really
good at problem solving, you're really good at
sticking to hard things, they would continue
on. And so... I think when we're aligned with
God and we have this idea that we don't have
to be perfect we are much more likely to continue
on and grow and learn and develop and become
all those words that you were talking about and
that's really I think what Christ wants. That's
why we're here in my opinion. Yeah, it's exactly
right. And the thing is, when we see this and
when we see the word perfection or even complete
or finished or any of the other variations that
one could use for the word teleos in the Greek,
all of those things really point to me. Or let
me rephrase that. So when I see all of those
things, and if I see them as a stumbling block
or a problem, it's because I'm seeing them through
me. But when I see them through Christ, in other
words, I don't probably have a material problem
with that scripture if I read it like this. Be
ye therefore perfect, even as I are your Father
in heaven, which is perfect. If I can see me
through Christ, then that completion or that
finished, comes by faith and gives me the courage
and the strength maybe to move on as part of
my step two, right? Well, I like also when you
said, I have worth to align with Him. It's not,
I mean, yes, you have, you know, worthy stuff,
but I'm gonna go cross out my worthy words because
we don't ever lose our worth. There's not anything
we can do to lose our worth. I used to do a What's
it called when you Show something to make a point.
It's called show -and -tell though. Oh, I do
a show -and -tell It's called a visual aid. Okay
visually I Would do a visual aid for my young
women and I would hold that hundred dollar bill
and I said does anyone want this and You know,
they all want it and I'd crumple it up Do you
still want it? I spit on it. I step on it. I
rub dirt in it. I throw it in the garbage can.
Do you still want it? Do you still want it? That
to me helps me remember worth. You never lose
that worth. And that's important. When you're
telling that story, I remember you doing that.
It was a $20 bill. It was in Lehigh. That was
a long time ago. It would have been in December
of 1998, actually. Oh gosh, I did that in a meeting?
I remember that, yeah. You were being all pontificating
and stuff, I think. But it was impactful, the
points there. I only had a $20 bill then. The
points there. The second scripture. You've leveled
up now. Yes, I've leveled up. Oh, it's inflation,
babe. Nobody cares about $20 anymore. It's inflation.
You know, when we move to that next scripture
in Matthew, Matthew 22, love, you know, love
is the great commandment, right? Love the Lord
thy God with all thy heart, might, mind, and
strength. And then the second one is like unto
it to love thy neighbor as thyself. And it's
all about love, loving him. You know, seems like
that that's the, which is most important then
to be like him or to love him. And I think that
this is where some of the tension starts to begin
as we work through these three scriptures. But
love, loving Him, it requires capacity. It's
important for us to understand how does this
all play in. I think it's important also to be
open to let Him love us. I mean, I think sometimes
we are so critical of ourselves that we don't
feel worthy. of his love. That gets back to what
Nick was talking about earlier. We're inviting
him in. I love the double, the doors opening
to say, okay, I'm inviting you in to be my God
today. I'm doing that, Nick. You inspire me.
I love that they swing inward too. I do too.
Yeah. One of the things that really impressed
me about Crystal and Nick's episode, Deb, that
we referenced earlier, and I invite all of our
listeners to go back and listen to it, was just
the deep amount of love that I heard Crystal
when she shared her story about coming back and
just going through this, not coming back, but
going through this whole process and then putting
her and Nick, putting their family back together.
after years of separation and divorce and challenge
and addiction and all the other things. That's
love, you know. And Crystal, I'd kind of like
to get your take on all of this. So love is interesting
to me because I think I previously, I felt like
I had to earn God's love. right? So it was definitely
more transactional. And I can, I do that in all
my relationships back then, right? It's like,
if I can do this right, you will love me more.
Which is how I think I learned how it worked
with God was it, that's how it worked in my own
relationships, right? So when I learned that
my whole life could fall apart, I could have
things, I could not be the perfect girl, the
perfect woman, the perfect wife. And God still
would show up for me in my deepest, darkest moments.
I felt truly seen. I felt truly loved. And it's
taught me how to love other people well. That
it doesn't depend on how they're showing up.
I still have a choice I can choose to love. And
when I choose to love, even when people are hard
to love, I'm learning godly love. I'm learning...
I'm learning trust. I'm learning humility. I'm
learning just so many things. And so if I have
a lot going on within me and I'm like warring,
it's harder for me to just love for the sake
of loving. I think it's easier to love other
people in their mess than love yourself in your
mess. Like I can see people that are... Whatever
and I don't know why it's super easy for me to
love them and see God's love for them But for
some reason that mirror to go If I mess up then
he I think it's a belief system or maybe a transact
like you said transactional Piece of it that
it's like You know, I can see you in your pure
addiction and I can sit with you in, you know,
after you told me that you've molested, you know,
all these little boys in my neighborhood and
literally, like, I can sit with you and know
that God loves you. I know that. It's just interesting
when you were saying that level of love, you
know, to be able to sit with somebody in their
mess. I can totally see it, feel it, understand
it. But I think for me, it's that internal thing.
I'm going back to Nick's invitation to God to
say, I'm inviting you in, because I want to fill
that level of love in my mess. And I love, Crystal,
the way you kind of teed that up too. You're
talking about how you felt God's love and how
we feel love for others and so forth. And the
commandment is for us to love God. But it's the
second one is like unto it that we love them.
But here's what I know, when I feel God's love,
then I can love him. And John reminds us of that
in first John chapter four verse 18, he's talking
about love. He's talking about fear and how love
cast without fear. He says, there is no fear
in love. How cool is that, right? I mean, fear
is one of our greatest defenders. There is no
fear in love, but perfect love, okay, so there's
that word perfect again. So when we see perfect
love, I have to make the assumption, I have to
know academically and spiritually that that perfect
love is the love of Jesus Christ, the love of
our Heavenly Father that comes through Jesus
Christ and is manifest to us by His Spirit. because
fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made
imperfect in love. We love him, this is the part,
we love him because he first loved us. Can I
say something that's so interesting? If you want
to get kind of scientific about that, when we
have fear, when we're moving from fear, our body
gets really dysregulated and you start to move
into kind of a fight or flight. space, right?
So your heartbeat starts to raise, you start
to feel unsafe, unsteady. And when that happens,
your prefrontal cortex, your thinking logical
brain shuts down and you move into more of your
limbic, which is your reptilian brain. You're
just going to try to fight the person, get away
from the person, fawn or freeze, right? Those
are kind of the states you move into. But...
When you're in that state, what we try to do
is you try to regulate the nervous system. And
when you're in a regulated nervous system, you
bring in more peace, more love, kind of. That's
really what you're trying to do into your body
so it can regulate a little bit. And when you're
regulated, your brain gets back on track. And
now we can be more thoughtful about how we want
to move forward. We're much more intentional
about our choices. And to me, it's like, you
know, faith or fear. can move you in such different
directions and so God when he's like he's saying
trust me or God is love I really think it's like
this regulation for a nervous system that gets
us on track and then we can move forward in the
ways that God wants us to move forward we're
much more guided in the direction that's going
to be good for us versus very reactive and fearful
so the opposite of fear is not faith it's love
Crystal, thanks for sharing that. Crystal is
a LCSW? Clinical Mental Health Counselor. It's
a long name. Clinical Mental Health Counselor.
And she actually is currently working in one
of our beloved local rehab centers and just brings
with her a great perspective from that. So thanks
for sharing that, Crystal. So the interesting
thing about love... Especially at the end of
that scripture that you just read is we love
him because he loved us first is I believe that
true change and true repentance comes when we
experience that love and then what I found is
I feel that my job is to go out and to serve
others, you know, and so like my life has been
set up in a way where the main focus is service,
you know, so each morning it's like Alright God
put me to work like I'm gonna move my feet. You
just put the people in front of me who you know
at work How can we be helpful who you know the
people at work? How can we help them? How can
we help the customers at? Home like how can how
can I help the family, you know, and it and it's
I find that The more that I'm inconvenienced
by service You know, and I think it's gonna be
an inconvenience on the front end, but afterwards,
you know, I find that, you know, my heart's just
full and I feel like that is the way that I truly
show that love and that's why I love those two,
you know, loving your neighbor and loving God
being so connected is because I feel like that's
really the only way for me to show God that I
love him is by serving others. Definitely a great
way to align, right? Absolutely. I mean, you
know, and if we want to go back a step and talk
about being like Him, you know, the first thing
we were talking, we're talking about loving Him
now, but the first thing we were talking about
was being like Him. How can you be more like
Him than to serve others? I mean, that was His
whole life. Yeah. I don't think that there, I
mean, when you go through and, you know, examine
those first four gospels and stuff, like it's
all about Service. All about that. All about
that. His whole life. And then when we study
even restoration scripture, even his pre -mortal
life was all about service. His anti -mortal
life is all about service. His entire existence
is about service. Serving the Father by serving
us. And we serve the Father by serving each other
as well. So, love him. and be like him, they're
really kind of one in the same. I tell people
all the time, I like to think of people who I've
known. My grandpa, my grandpa Fagan, for example,
I knew him because he loved me first, I loved
him. And because he spent so much time with him,
I mean, I really knew him. And the more I got
to know him, knowing the deeper I loved him and
the deeper I loved him, then came my deep desire
to be like him. And I train horses and he taught
me to train horses and I tried to emulate what
he taught me there. I tried to emulate other
mannerisms and characteristics and beliefs and
things that he held to be important to him because
of my relationship. And I think that's the key,
Dev, is that relationship, my relationship with
him. And so this is the same with my Heavenly
Father. In my step two, I'm not just chucking
a box, I'm developing a relationship. Why am
I developing this relationship? Why am I investing
my time? Why am I getting to know him? Do I want
to be like him and fostering that desire so that
my service will be deeper and more rendered appropriately
and with more alignment to him? The reason I'm
doing all that is so that when I come to step
three and it asks me or it invites me to be willing
to turn my will over to him, then I can fully
trust that I can do that. Yeah, I think for me,
trusting is the muscle we exercise through to
the knowing. Because we don't quite know until
we trust and have faith. And then we know. It's
like, then we get through it and we're like,
oh, I see all of that now. It's very, very clear.
But I want that knowing when I'm in it. Yeah.
Well, it's life, it's life eternal to know Him.
And I think knowing Him helps us know that. Yeah.
Right. So knowing him, there's a few things that
really can happen as we begin to know him. As
we know him, it really increases the accuracy
of our perceived identity. We've talked about
how our identity will determine our eternity.
We've talked about how our identity is so important
and can... Really determine who we are whose
we are too. You know knowing that makes all the
difference in the world You were talking a little
bit about how I work in addiction recovery, and
I see this to where clients that You know they're
used to being in a certain environment And now
they come into a different environment, and they're
asked to trust people to do things that are different
to live kind of different and they're not used
to it, right? And a lot of them kind of will
push against it. But there are some that are
like, I'm just going to trust. I'm just going
to trust you guys because if you're asking me
to do it, chances are it's good for me. And so
I like that. I think again, that's like this
teachable moment. It's this moment where you
think to yourself, I got nothing to lose here
and everything to gain. And I've been doing it
on my own and it hasn't really worked out that
great for me, so I'm gonna trust that there's
a better way. And you know, you don't, you're
not led by people you don't trust. So you have
to develop that relationship and know that they're
gonna lead you in the right direction. I think
it's important to know that we don't heal by
trying harder. But aligning and feeling the Spirit
and inviting Him in, I think is, again, I go
back to this, because this is where I'm at, is
strengthening that trust muscle into that knowing.
I think it's focus and intent. Because how am
I going to get to knowing better if I don't read
the Scriptures? For sure. How am I going to get
to knowing better if I don't cry out? in prayer
and all of that. So I know what you're saying,
that if we're just doing those things for the
sake of doing those things. I can't tell you
how many times when I was struggling with my
alcoholism, somebody, not just a person, but
multiple people on multiple occasions would say,
if you just prayed more fervently. If you would
just pray more fervently and just have more faith,
you'd be able to overcome this. And that wasn't
the case because my focus was on me. It wasn't
on him at the time. It was all wrong. I was focusing
on my relationship with me. I wasn't focusing
on my relationship with him. And I didn't know
him well enough. I didn't know him right enough,
maybe well enough, but in the wrong ways to really
know him. I didn't know him. I thought I did.
I had this perception that had been developed
through cultural experiences, through my own
perception by listening to the voice of the accuser
and so many, many other ways. It wasn't until
I really got to know him that I felt his love.
And that was after I got sober. I mean, I had
felt his love previous, but to really engage
and have a relationship where I could tap into
that and feel that just by being present in the
relationship, that's when it began to change
for me. Knowing him allowed me to love him. And
loving him inspires me to be like him. You know,
it feels like to me, the more I think I know
him, the more I don't know him. Like, there's
a whole... new room of, or a whole new part of
him that I do not know. Because I really thought,
yeah, I know him. I trust him. I, you know, I
can testify. I can, I can go and, you know, say
all those right words and tell, you know, my
feet get in that fire. And it's like, okay, I
know the right answer, but do I live the right
answer? And so really trusting him. is another
muscle for me. Well, and when we really trust
in Him and when we align with Him, we're still
doing the same stuff. We're still praying. For
sure. We're still reading scriptures. We're still
serving other people. But I don't have the answer,
that's all I'm saying. But we're doing it from
a different perspective. We're doing it from
the lens of the healing through the atonement
of Jesus Christ. Which is surrender. Think of
it and it's like the actions outwardly maybe
don't seem different, you know praying reading
right all these things, but like I'm coming from
a place Well, you know Christ talks about it
to to be like a child to be willing teachable
submissive meek humble patient full of love,
you know and and to have a willing heart and
then to be willing to accept him in and all of
a sudden that changes the focus. Right. But when
I've heard the word in the past, surrender, that
almost seems like, um, do nothing, you know,
time to just give up, sit down and just, and
just, and just, and then just become a victim
and let things happen. You know, that's not surrenders.
You describe surrender perfectly. You know, it's
an attitude. It's a way of being. It's not in
our action. Our actions can be the same, but
for a different reason. Well, I think then, Deb,
you know, when we talk about... Is it more important
to be like him? Is it more important to love
him? Is it more important to know him? I think
we've kind of wrestled with that today and we've
put it in perspective in what that really means
in terms of me coming to believe that a power
greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Really believing that, really having a relationship
and knowing almost that that can happen. All
of those things really create an invitation for
us too, don't they? For sure. For sure. It's
that, like Nick said, it's that surrender. It's
that coming to Him. Being submissive and childlike,
teachable. I love that and I love that reminder.
Because if you think about children, and I spent
last weekend with... five of my grandkids that
they are very submissive. They believe and they
believe everything you tell them. That's the
other part. They believe everything you tell
them. I know sometimes we go in this magical
little world but it's it's they are very teachable
and it's that's a good reminder to you know.
Come unto come unto me and I will give you rest.
Yeah, Matthew 1128. That's the encapsulation
of all of this You know when I think of when
I think of step two It's an invitation now to
become willing to turn my will in my life over
to the care of God as I understand him Which
is step three a great invitation and now as I
move into step three through Matthew 1128 I'm
gonna read this. I remember very distinctly Nick
talking about this on his podcast when David
and I interviewed Nick, how this impacted you
at some point in your life. I don't know if you
remember talking about that in that story, but
this is the scripture. It says, come unto me,
all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I
will give you rest. That invitation, you know,
if I can believe somebody can actually give me
rest, rest from what? Rest from the pains of
my addiction, rest from all of the various forms
of the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve, including
sin, but not just sin. And then he goes on, take
my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am meek
and lowly of heart and you shall find rest unto
your souls for my yoke is easy. and my burden
is light. I'm gonna give him my heavy burden
then. I'm going to give each one of you a chance
to just wrap up with a thought or two, but to
me that right there encapsulates what it means
for me when I come to know him well enough that
my love for him is deep enough that my desire
to be like him is evident in my alignment and
the things that I do are actually become for
that reason. And then even then I have a deeper
desire to know him more and without even I do
know him more because I get to experience what
he experienced, not just academically, but I
get to experience those things as well. I know
that. I know that a relationship with deity,
with the Father, through Jesus Christ, administrated
and administered by the Holy Ghost in my life,
is the key to me overcoming all of the effects
of the fall of Adam and Eve, including my alcoholism,
including drug addiction, including all the other
things that have been so ugly in my life. It's
all because of that. Because I have answered
to the best of my ability and tried to do this.
and try to do so every day, the invitation, come
follow me. I know that I will get frustrated
again and again and again. If I'm growing, I'm
gonna get frustrated. And I feel like God wants
me to grow. So that's gonna be part of it. So
I know I'm gonna get frustrated, but when I can
catch myself, and you can usually catch myself
when I feel the weight of the world on me, then
I know I have to really have that conversation
with God. And when I do, there is just this knowing
that everything's gonna be okay. And I don't
know how that's gonna happen, but God's gonna
give me the strength to get through it. He will
guide people in my life. Things tend to just
work out. And maybe not exactly how I envisioned
it to work out, right? Like, God's not gonna
give me a million dollars, but God always gives
me enough, right? And so learning to see the
good when it comes instead of kind of... expecting
that Christmas list, wish list, and not getting
it, you know? But when I can find that peace,
I know I can get through anything. Yeah, I go
back to that thing that I read at the very first
from the big book, you know, what seemed at first
a flimsy read turned out to be the loving and
powerful hand of God, you know, and it makes
me think of another scripture, you know, through...
small and simple things are great things brought
to pass, you know, that it didn't require much,
you know, but it required consistency. And I
really like how it's written, came to believe.
So it's as I'm looking back, as I've walked through
things, then I go, oh, okay, you know what? Like
I see God's hand all over the place. You know,
I've heard it said that we live life forward
and understand it backwards, you know, and that
seems how, that, you know, it's one of those
spiritual paradoxes, but. You know, I found that
for me it's just been through consistency and
effort. You know, that I've really come to believe
in a power greater than myself, come to believe
in the power of the Savior, you know, and I had
to seek those things out, you know, but it didn't
require much more than just being willing and
being willing to put in some effort. You have
made the effort and it's a different effort we
read out in Miller's Statement, I'm not going
to do it tonight, but we read it again last week
about how you know just focusing on him It's
it's a different. It's work still work. It's
just a different work altogether and that effort
you've done both of you I've been a front -row
seat to Nick, but both of you have really done
that effort. I'm so glad you were here Nick and
Crystal. We love you. Thanks Thanks for having
us. Thank you. It's always a treat to have you
guys here. I always get food for thought and
I can relate and then I learn and so it's great
for me to reflect on know him, love him, be like
him in the simple steps, in small and simple
things and it's given me some hope right now
to move forward and to just remember that there
is a power greater than me and I know him and
I do love him and I do want to be like him and
I strive in moments in those small and simple
ways and what I'm like like I said earlier the
more I learn the more I realize I don't know
anything so I'm I'm just grateful for this opportunity
to exercise my faith muscles and my belief muscles
and my trust muscles and I just pray that we
can all do those small and simple things that
will bring us closer to Him. And the other part
is to be yoked with Him because I want that light
burden. I want my burden to be light like His.
And aligning with Him will give me that and I
know that. Thanks for being with us, Nick and
Crystal. I love you Deb. I love you. I love them.
And we love you guys so much. I look, I really
look forward to next month. I'm not exactly sure
when in March, but sometime in March we'll get
together again and we'll talk about the third
step from Alcoholics Anonymous. Our invitation
to you this weekend between actually now and
then is to really, really come to know him, to
really understand and believe that a power greater
and really know who. that power is, that he can
restore us to sanity. I always said that that's
kind of presumptuous that somebody would think
that I was ever, that I ever had sanity to be
restored to, but he will nonetheless restore
us to the sanity of our completion. I testify
of that. Thanks so much for being with us, everybody.
We look forward to being with you again next
week, and until then, be well. you