WEBVTT

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Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another

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episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. I'm Scott

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Durfey, and that's Princess Deb. Oh, gosh. We

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don't need a title. Hi, Deb. Hello. How are you?

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You can just say Scott and Deb. I did. I said

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Scott and Princess Deb. You don't need to go

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there. We're good. Hello, friends. Hello, everyone.

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Thanks, everybody, for your emails reaching out.

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For those of you who didn't know, you can always

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do that. He redeems us at gmail .com. We're receiving

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quite a few emails, actually, from Some of our

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Institute students, we've invited them to ask

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questions. We'll be including a lot of those

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questions. We already did one two weeks ago or

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two episodes ago. We'll be including more of

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those as we go throughout this season. Just so

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many great insights. I love those kids, Doug.

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They're unbelievable this semester. I don't know

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what it is. I don't know if it's Heavenly Father's

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blessing us because it's our last semester that

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we'll be teaching Institute. It's our grand finale.

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So he's like, well. We'll teach you this semester.

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I'm going to because of all of their efforts

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that they've had in the past. I'm going to go

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ahead and bless them with this. And it feels

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like, holy cow, we are definitely being blessed.

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So speaking of Institute, you remember my friend

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Nick? I always remember Nick. Do you know Nick's

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teaching institute? I did not know that. Yeah,

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he's teaching institute. Him and another friend

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of ours are teaching institute also at BYU and

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they're doing a class on addiction recovery.

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Heck yes. Through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

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I think they're using the ARP manual. Yeah, we

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are. Oh, there you are. Hey, Nick. Hey, guys.

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Surprise, surprise. We just teleported him in.

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Yeah, surprise, surprise. A great treat that

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we have here tonight. Y 'all will probably remember

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from season four, episode 21. It was one of the

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last episodes of season four. So what, 12 episodes

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ago -ish, we had Nick and Crystal on here. Great

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friends of ours have been for several years now,

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and their story is amazing and wonderful. Hi,

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Nick. Hey, guys. Hi, Crystal. Hi. I'm so glad

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to have you guys back. Makes this recording a

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lot more fun. We were just belly laughing right

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before we pushed record. Yeah, it does. We should

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have them every week. It kind of breaks. Well,

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that's what we talked about, you know, after

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we had so much fun with these guys last time

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they were here and we got to hear about the reunion.

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And, you know, we did an episode with Nick a

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couple of years ago and got to hear about his

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addiction recovery and his journey into all of

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that. And I'm sure we'll get to hear some of

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those experience, strength and hope again here

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tonight. But. When we did that we decided that

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maybe we should try and make it a little more

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regular that we have Nick and Crystal on. Nick

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and I were talking today and deciding what we

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would talk about and we decided that we would

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take this the step that is numerically aligned

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with the month each month and kind of do a little

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bit of a focus on recovery steps from Alcoholics

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Anonymous and other recovery programs as well.

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So this is February. And this month, we're going

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to focus, or this week, we're going to focus

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on step two. How appropriate. So step two, can

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you remember what it is, Deb? Well, step one

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is we admitted we were powerless over alcohol.

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Or anything. That our lives had become unmanageable.

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And because we didn't do this in January, I think

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we need to hit step one. We just need to say

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what that is. January is a powerless month anyway.

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It lasts a whole year. It's a very long month.

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Step two is came to believe that a power greater

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than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Yeah,

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yeah. Came to believe that a power greater than

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ourselves could restore us to sanity. You know,

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Deb, this is, in my opinion, this is the step.

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from which all other steps kind of hinge. If

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we don't have a solid relationship with this

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step, step number two, then the rest of them

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just don't matter. And I think that that will

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become evident and obvious as we go through this

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kind of process over the next 12 months now,

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which we've committed to, which I'm excited about.

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But what if the real question of recovery isn't

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whether God exists? We have to get there. But

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what if that wasn't the real question? But what

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if it was instead whether he can be trusted to

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finish what's broken in me? Because step two

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isn't really about believing harder. It's not

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working harder. It's about believing differently.

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It's about establishing a relationship. It's

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about understanding and developing a level of

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even worship. I think even a level of worship

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in Him whom I will put my trust in order for

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me to be recovered, to overcome alcohol, to overcome

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drugs, to overcome any, literally any of the

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effects of the fall of Adam and Eve, including

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sin, right? Including alcoholism. Well, and I

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think just to throw my little experience in there,

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I'm currently in... That way as well. I mean

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experiencing that as well just because of My

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circumstance and I your circumstances as I'm

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unemployed And it's it's it's kind of weird me

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out a little bit like I know everything's gonna

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be fine like when I really commune but I have

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to remember that I'm powerless and that there's

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a power greater than me that can restore my employment.

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So you can really apply this, if you're not an

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alcoholic or a drug addict, you can apply this

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to anything in your life. That's the point. Yes,

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100%. That is exactly the point. Because every

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one of us are fallen. And so because we're fallen,

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we are cut off from access, physical access with

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God. We deal with physical death, we deal with

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spiritual death, and all of those things require

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us at some point to realize that there's stuff

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in my life I don't have power over. Well, if

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I'm going to restore that power or that sanity

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in my life, then I need to have a relationship

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with a power who can actually do that. And that

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one. is God, may you find him now. That's what

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we say at the end of reading in all of Alcoholics

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Anonymous. Well, so I wanna hear a lot more from

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Nick and Crystal on this. Before I do though,

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I think that there are three scriptures that

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we wanna deal with here tonight and we'll deal

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with scripture, we'll deal with other. Alcoholism,

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alcoholics anonymous type of literature. Maybe

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if you want to do some Al -Anon, I see you got

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your Al -Anon book there. Some literature from

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that, some insights, et cetera. For those that

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don't know what Al -Anon is, it's a family support

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for if you are related to or have someone in

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your life that you are affected by alcoholism.

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So an Al -Anon is a family support. Al -Anon's

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actually got quite an ad campaign going on right

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now on radio. I'm not aware of that. That's because

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you never listen to the radio. But yeah, they're

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all over the radio with Al -Anon and Alateen

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and a wonderful, wonderful program, an extremely

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important, not just wonderful, an important program.

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Behind every alcoholic, I don't know about every,

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but behind most alcoholics, a really good Al

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-Anon, that's for sure. I want to talk about...

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So these three scriptures, I'm just gonna read

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them. We'll kind of introduce them and then we're

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gonna take them as we go one by one through here

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and establish why it's so important and how these

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things relate to step two. So the first one is

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in Matthew chapter five verse 48 and it says,

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be ye therefore perfect even as your father which

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is in heaven is perfect. So that sounds like

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a pretty lofty. commandment or goal. He doesn't

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say, you know, hey, when it's convenient or hey,

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you know, if you can get around to it or he just

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comes right out and it just comes right out and

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says, be ye therefore perfect. There's a direction

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right there. Even your father, even. as your

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Father which is in heaven is perfect. And that's

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an interesting scripture. We'll talk about it.

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I know it presents a problem, presents a big

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problem for me, just as it says. But nonetheless,

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it's an important scripture. Be therefore perfect.

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Now let's go to Matthew 22. All right, so let's

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go to the second scriptures in Matthew. Matthew

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22, we're gonna start in verse 36, which says,

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Master, which is the great commandment in the

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law? And Jesus said unto him, thou shalt love

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the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all

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thy soul, and with all thy mind. And this is

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the first and great commandment. And the second

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is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor

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as thyself. On these two commandments, this is

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the important part, on these two commandments

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hang all the law and the prophets. So all the

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law hangs on that commandment, to love God and

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to love each other, to love our neighbors. So

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is it more important then to become like Him,

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the epitome of perfection, the only perfect being

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that I, the only perfect being, the epitome of

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perfection, is that most important? Or is it

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more important to love Him? And we don't answer

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that yet because we're still gonna go to one

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more scripture. Let's go to John chapter 17,

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verse three. And this is life eternal that they

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might know thee the only true God in Jesus Christ

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whom thou has sent So three really important

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things one to be like him Matthew 5 48 to to

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love him three to know him You know while you

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were talking There was a thought that came to

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mind that made me think back on like when I first

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began on this journey, this journey of building

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a relationship with God and with the Savior.

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And in the big book, it says, we in our turn

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sought the same escape with all the desperation

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of drowning men. What seemed at first a flimsy

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read has proved to be the loving and powerful

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hand of God. Yeah. I remember when I read that.

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What page? Sorry to interrupt you. What page

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is that, Nick? That's page 28. In the big book

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about that support edition, right? Yeah, okay

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and What? What came to mind was that the most

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important thing for me Was just a willingness

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You know like I was desperate and something something

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magical happens when when you're desperate and

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you're willing, you know, I read somewhere that

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that God is a gentleman. He only goes where he's

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invited, but he always figures out a way to become

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invited. That's what my case was. When I look

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back on how the journey began, because I had

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this idea that I really hope that God isn't real,

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because I don't want to have to come face to

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face with the things that I've done. And reading

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that book, the big book, it broke some walls

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down for me. I just became willing because of

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what I felt. And what I felt was God was saying,

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like, dude, just quit running. Let me help you,

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please. And the other thought that came to mind

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was, President Nelson's quote, and I can't remember

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it exactly, but you know, the Lord loves effort,

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you know, and the joy that we experience in life

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isn't determined by our circumstances nearly

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as much as our focus, I think is how it goes,

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you know, and what I found was that as I focused

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on gaining a relationship and just, you know,

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it's kind of like going to the gym, you know,

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it was just consistency. consistency each day

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of putting in some effort, like, you know, that's

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where the magic happened for me. I love that.

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Yeah, I absolutely love that. You know, my experience

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with Step 2 is kind of similar, you know. I realized

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that when I came to AA, you know, and I was working

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the steps in the beginning, with my first sponsor,

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we did step two and he says okay I want you to

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and he gave me some things to do I said I don't

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need to do that I already know God I already

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have I already know about God I already know

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about Jesus I already know about God he was a

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wise guy not a wise guy but a smart wise gentleman

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and he asked me some questions about God and

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it became pretty Evident to him and and and evident

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enough that I was finally willing to admit it

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that my relationship with God was You know, I

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just thought he was just trying to get me in

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trouble all the time I just thought he was looking

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for things to to bust me over like a cop You

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know or whatever and so, you know, I didn't not

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only didn't I really love him. I feared him But

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I didn't really probably love him. And I thought

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I did at the best of my ability, maybe I did,

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but I didn't really love him. I definitely didn't

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know him, obviously. And I don't know if I had

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a desire to be like him or not, but I knew I

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would never be like him. So why even try? I don't

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know, Crystal. Where does this come down, this

00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:36.190
stuff kinda come down for you? Um for me, it's

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funny. I feel like when I was younger I had such

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Strong Knowing that God was was there that he

00:14:45.789 --> 00:14:47.970
loved me. I you know did all the things that

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I was told But as I've gotten older and I've

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had a little bit more life experience It's been

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a little bit more challenging for me to just

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trust all the time, right? I see I see Nick and

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his experience and his ability to trust. And

00:15:07.820 --> 00:15:12.120
I think it's inspiring. I like the thought came

00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:17.059
to understand. For me, it's like I'm walking

00:15:17.059 --> 00:15:20.679
into the dark quite often. And it's that one

00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.139
little step that I take that is illuminated a

00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:26.779
little bit for me. There's a lot of fear usually

00:15:26.779 --> 00:15:28.519
around it when I'm moving into something that

00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:32.100
I'm like, God, I do not. This is hard for me,

00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:36.480
right? This is hard for me. I'm scared, but I'm

00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:41.840
in a trust. And I'm going to, I really do think

00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.419
that with God, there's a sense of peace. You

00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:46.720
know, Jesus is called the Prince of Peace. And

00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.539
so much of it is allowing that peace to come

00:15:50.539 --> 00:15:54.059
over me. So that I can then move forward in the

00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:56.740
things that are scary for me. And I can come

00:15:56.740 --> 00:16:01.629
to understand. his wisdom, his power, his strength,

00:16:01.710 --> 00:16:03.490
as I'm kind of moving through it, it's easier

00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:05.009
for me to see it on the other side of things.

00:16:05.029 --> 00:16:07.610
But when I'm in it, I'm having to really trust,

00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:09.970
I'm having to try to find that peace, regulate

00:16:09.970 --> 00:16:15.490
myself, and accept that I'm not gonna do it perfectly.

00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:17.990
Accept that there's parts of me that's like my

00:16:17.990 --> 00:16:21.490
shadow side that I don't like that come out.

00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:25.610
But I think that's the wisdom in it, is God is...

00:16:25.769 --> 00:16:28.889
taking these scary things for me and illuminating

00:16:28.889 --> 00:16:30.970
the parts of me that need to develop a little

00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:33.509
bit more. And there's a resistance I can feel

00:16:33.509 --> 00:16:36.870
from me. But if I can just kind of take a deep

00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:40.350
breath and relax into it and trust, that's when

00:16:40.350 --> 00:16:43.870
I come to understand or I come to believe in

00:16:43.870 --> 00:16:48.769
this power greater than myself. I'm nodding when

00:16:48.769 --> 00:16:52.139
Crystal talks. And it's one of those things that's

00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:55.539
like right now, I'm trusting. When I sit in this

00:16:55.539 --> 00:16:58.200
celestial room in the temple, I'm trusting. When

00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.419
I'm reading and like communing, I'm trusting.

00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.099
But when I get out in that noisy world, I get

00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:09.000
fearful. It's like life gets life -ing. And I'm

00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:13.200
like, I hold my breath. And so I can relate on

00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:19.690
all levels just for the simple fact is... I have

00:17:19.690 --> 00:17:23.109
to go back to one, I'm powerless. And knowing

00:17:23.109 --> 00:17:26.029
and trusting are, to me, are two different things.

00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:30.190
I trust, but I don't know yet. I thought that

00:17:30.190 --> 00:17:36.589
I've got it. So the things that I thought that

00:17:36.589 --> 00:17:41.109
I knew about God stood in my way. I love that

00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:44.589
you're saying that. It's the same for me, by

00:17:44.589 --> 00:17:47.480
the way. And that's what I find, especially with

00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:50.700
guys that I work with, that I sponsor, you know,

00:17:50.779 --> 00:17:54.900
like the more knowledge that I thought that I

00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:59.000
had about God, it stood in my way from me being

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.019
able to have an experience. And one of those

00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:05.759
things is that I need to clean myself off before

00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:11.759
I approach God. That I need to come with... reverence,

00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.920
and I need to be, you know, and it's not that

00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.900
I don't need to approach God with reverence,

00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:20.119
but I didn't think I could be honest. So, you

00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.619
know, for me, a huge part of step two was learning

00:18:23.619 --> 00:18:26.619
how to be authentic, learning how to be honest,

00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:30.940
and then also realizing that I can't earn anything.

00:18:31.660 --> 00:18:35.099
Like, God's grace and everything that He's going

00:18:35.099 --> 00:18:38.680
to do is a free gift. It isn't a moral checklist,

00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.029
you know, a if I do this, then I'm going to get

00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:45.470
that. It's no, I go and I present myself and

00:18:45.470 --> 00:18:48.589
say, here's all of it, you know, and I and this

00:18:48.589 --> 00:18:50.569
is you know, the thing that I tell to my guys

00:18:50.569 --> 00:18:53.130
that I sponsor is like, Listen, I want you to

00:18:53.130 --> 00:18:55.369
get honest. And I want you to do it out loud.

00:18:55.369 --> 00:18:57.869
And I want you to say exactly what you feel.

00:18:57.890 --> 00:19:00.170
And it's going to feel like you're being very

00:19:00.170 --> 00:19:03.230
disrespectful. But just trust me that on that,

00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:05.670
you know, God can handle it. He's got his big

00:19:05.670 --> 00:19:07.990
boy pants on, you know, he's gonna You know,

00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:11.170
and I, I always felt like when I, I still feel

00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:14.089
this way, you know, when I have emotions that

00:19:14.089 --> 00:19:16.369
are playing strongly inside of me and I get honest

00:19:16.369 --> 00:19:18.569
about it, I almost start laughing by the end

00:19:18.569 --> 00:19:20.789
of it. You know, I feel like God's like, all

00:19:20.789 --> 00:19:23.130
right, you feel better about it now. Now just

00:19:23.130 --> 00:19:24.869
kind of shut up and get out of the way. Let me

00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:27.869
show you. You know, you've had your little fit.

00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:31.150
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if we're

00:19:31.150 --> 00:19:33.250
trying to be perfect, we lose sight of all of

00:19:33.250 --> 00:19:36.670
that right there. You know what, that's so true,

00:19:36.849 --> 00:19:38.609
Crystal. When I'm trying to be perfect, I make

00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:43.150
me the issue. I should never be the issue. Jesus

00:19:43.150 --> 00:19:46.559
Christ should always be my issue, right? If it's

00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.200
up to me, then I've got it backwards. Now, you

00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.079
know, we did a whole episode that just came out

00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:54.160
last week. In fact, the most recent episode before

00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.599
this one, you know, God doesn't expect us to

00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.660
stay in our mess, you know, just because that's

00:19:58.660 --> 00:20:01.400
who He is and how He is. That doesn't give us

00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.279
permission to stay in our sin, to stay in our

00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.420
alcoholism and our drug addiction and our whatever

00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.500
part of the fall of Adam and Eve is affecting

00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:14.759
us at that time. He doesn't give us permission

00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.319
to stay. stay there, but he doesn't expect us

00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.880
to become clean before we approach him for sure.

00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:22.480
He cleans us, we don't clean ourselves. He cleans

00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.500
us and he cleans us through our alignment with

00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:28.200
him, cleans us of all of the effects of the fall

00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:33.119
of Adam and Eve. And so, you know, that one,

00:20:34.339 --> 00:20:38.819
understanding him and really knowing him is so

00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:40.920
important, but I really still get tripped up

00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:45.069
on that first one, Matthew 5 .48. Be ye therefore

00:20:45.069 --> 00:20:49.569
perfect. And of course, perfect is, that's a

00:20:49.569 --> 00:20:54.269
really poor translation of the Greek word. The

00:20:54.269 --> 00:20:59.309
Greek word is telios, that the word perfect has

00:20:59.309 --> 00:21:02.630
come from in Matthew 5 .48. And it doesn't really

00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:04.410
mean that at all. I mean, that's one of the things

00:21:04.410 --> 00:21:07.480
it means. It does mean perfection. but it doesn't

00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:09.740
just mean perfection. It also means complete.

00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:12.900
It also means mature. It also means to be finished.

00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.839
It also means in any of those other things. So,

00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:19.220
you know, when I think of it like that, you know,

00:21:19.420 --> 00:21:23.880
be you therefore complete or complete -ed. that

00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:27.200
only can happen by me putting on Christ's atonement

00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:30.279
to become completed. And that's what we're talking

00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:32.539
about, to become completed. He's not commanding

00:21:32.539 --> 00:21:36.559
me to be flawless here, not perfect, not flawless.

00:21:36.859 --> 00:21:40.119
He's commanding me, or rather he's inviting me

00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:44.480
to be like him by aligning with him. And I think

00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:46.960
that that's how, you know, that we become more

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.579
finished. It makes me think of this big magna

00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:54.339
on our fridge that says, Not to ruin anything,

00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:57.660
but in the end, it's all gonna be okay. And I

00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:00.259
sometimes have to read that out loud to just,

00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:03.460
because I get caught up in just little things

00:22:03.460 --> 00:22:07.240
that will trip me. But I think understanding

00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.700
the completeness, understanding the mature or

00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:15.299
whole or whatever takes out that word perfect

00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:20.180
because perfect is a trip word for me. Because

00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:23.759
I want things. in a certain way. And I think

00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.500
that's where my trust gets tripped up too is

00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:31.980
because I, like Nick was saying, my perception

00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:35.319
of God is nothing like I thought it was. And

00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:37.960
I'm thinking, God, this is how I want the outcome

00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.140
to be. And now I need to get back out of the

00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:45.200
outcome business and just go back to that surrender,

00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.480
that willingness, that stillness. It makes a

00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:54.759
lot better. Yeah. Well, in that scripture is

00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.380
one of those that like the way that you just,

00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:02.420
you know, read it without diving into the different

00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:05.420
translations is one that would have made me like

00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:08.640
so angry before, you know, because it it's like,

00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.440
oh, it's like I've got a shoulder the burden.

00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:16.799
It's like it's all on me. And the way that I

00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.940
understand that now is that You know, it's it's

00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:24.740
me and Christ together, like we're yoked together

00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:28.900
in this, you know, but it's something that I

00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:32.859
have to remove myself and accept this gift from

00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:37.599
him to allow him into my life to kind of cleanse

00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.720
the soul, purify the soul, so to speak, you know,

00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.960
and I kind of like each day when I'm doing prayer

00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:47.420
and meditation, one of the things that I do is

00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:52.289
I I invite God, I say, you know, I'm inviting

00:23:52.289 --> 00:23:54.750
you, I open the doors to my heart, heart and

00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:56.849
my life, and I invite you in to be my God today.

00:23:56.849 --> 00:23:59.769
And I pictured doors opening up. But what I read

00:23:59.769 --> 00:24:02.309
is that the doors to the soul open inward. So

00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:05.049
you got to get yourself out of the way to bring

00:24:05.049 --> 00:24:08.089
him in. You know, and it's one of these things

00:24:08.089 --> 00:24:11.259
too, where I feel like the more mistakes I make,

00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:13.779
it's like cracks, you know? It's kind of like

00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:16.180
that idea of Kintsugi, the Japanese pottery,

00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:18.759
you know? And that every time I make a mistake,

00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:22.220
it's another crack. But Christ comes in and His

00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:24.000
light shines through those cracks, you know?

00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.259
So the more I mess up, the more Christ's light

00:24:26.259 --> 00:24:29.440
can shine through me. You know, because it's

00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:32.339
how I can relate with others. Like, it's how

00:24:32.339 --> 00:24:35.259
I can show empathy and compassion, and through

00:24:35.259 --> 00:24:40.089
those things, Christ comes into my life. and

00:24:40.089 --> 00:24:43.210
changes my heart. Yeah, you know, and it deepens

00:24:43.210 --> 00:24:46.210
our dependency on him and our willingness to

00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:49.349
engage in that dependency. Right. Well, it's

00:24:49.349 --> 00:24:53.230
it's it's kind of like a snowball rolling down

00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:56.170
a mountain. You know, it's like the more momentum

00:24:56.170 --> 00:24:58.049
it gets, the more I allow him in, the more I

00:24:58.049 --> 00:25:00.029
need him in. The more I need Him in, the more

00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:02.230
I'm seeking Him. The more I'm seeking Him, the

00:25:02.230 --> 00:25:04.630
more that, you know, I've seen Him everywhere.

00:25:04.829 --> 00:25:07.750
You know, it's one of those things where, like,

00:25:07.750 --> 00:25:10.369
the more that I get, the more I want it. I notice

00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:15.690
when I feel really burdened, I feel heavy, I'm

00:25:15.690 --> 00:25:17.849
trying to do it all, right? You talk about being

00:25:17.849 --> 00:25:21.509
yoked with Christ. That's my cue to surrender

00:25:21.509 --> 00:25:26.759
a little bit more. When you're talking to about

00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:31.420
being perfect I think about the word worth Worthy

00:25:31.420 --> 00:25:35.119
and when I come across that I cross it out. I

00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.980
Don't I just to be worthy. I I think more aligned

00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:42.759
with God, right? That's just for me my own little

00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:47.740
thing, but for me I'm looking at aligning myself

00:25:47.740 --> 00:25:53.539
with God Because then I'm teachable There's this

00:25:53.539 --> 00:25:58.980
thing that I talk about a lot. It's the fixed

00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:00.839
versus the growth mindset. Have you guys heard

00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:05.299
of that before? The fixed mindset is I am good

00:26:05.299 --> 00:26:09.259
at math, right? Or I am perfect, or I am. And

00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:12.880
the growth mindset is I'm good at learning hard

00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:16.960
things. Right? So if you come to a problem in

00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.039
math that you can't solve that's really challenging

00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:21.980
for you, most, they did a study, most kids with

00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:25.019
a fixed mindset would just stop. They wouldn't

00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:28.319
continue. And the ones with the growth mindset,

00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.039
where they would have a teacher say, you're really

00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.240
good at problem solving, you're really good at

00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.059
sticking to hard things, they would continue

00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:41.019
on. And so... I think when we're aligned with

00:26:41.019 --> 00:26:43.140
God and we have this idea that we don't have

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:46.960
to be perfect we are much more likely to continue

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:51.220
on and grow and learn and develop and become

00:26:51.220 --> 00:26:52.880
all those words that you were talking about and

00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.299
that's really I think what Christ wants. That's

00:26:56.299 --> 00:26:59.720
why we're here in my opinion. Yeah, it's exactly

00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:02.759
right. And the thing is, when we see this and

00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:05.299
when we see the word perfection or even complete

00:27:05.299 --> 00:27:09.599
or finished or any of the other variations that

00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:12.720
one could use for the word teleos in the Greek,

00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:19.980
all of those things really point to me. Or let

00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.849
me rephrase that. So when I see all of those

00:27:22.849 --> 00:27:25.529
things, and if I see them as a stumbling block

00:27:25.529 --> 00:27:27.650
or a problem, it's because I'm seeing them through

00:27:27.650 --> 00:27:30.849
me. But when I see them through Christ, in other

00:27:30.849 --> 00:27:34.369
words, I don't probably have a material problem

00:27:34.369 --> 00:27:36.789
with that scripture if I read it like this. Be

00:27:36.789 --> 00:27:40.529
ye therefore perfect, even as I are your Father

00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:44.549
in heaven, which is perfect. If I can see me

00:27:44.549 --> 00:27:48.769
through Christ, then that completion or that

00:27:48.769 --> 00:27:52.230
finished, comes by faith and gives me the courage

00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:55.829
and the strength maybe to move on as part of

00:27:55.829 --> 00:27:59.250
my step two, right? Well, I like also when you

00:27:59.250 --> 00:28:04.509
said, I have worth to align with Him. It's not,

00:28:04.869 --> 00:28:07.150
I mean, yes, you have, you know, worthy stuff,

00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:10.890
but I'm gonna go cross out my worthy words because

00:28:10.890 --> 00:28:13.349
we don't ever lose our worth. There's not anything

00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:18.960
we can do to lose our worth. I used to do a What's

00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.160
it called when you Show something to make a point.

00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:24.980
It's called show -and -tell though. Oh, I do

00:28:24.980 --> 00:28:29.920
a show -and -tell It's called a visual aid. Okay

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:34.339
visually I Would do a visual aid for my young

00:28:34.339 --> 00:28:36.619
women and I would hold that hundred dollar bill

00:28:36.619 --> 00:28:38.980
and I said does anyone want this and You know,

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.359
they all want it and I'd crumple it up Do you

00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.059
still want it? I spit on it. I step on it. I

00:28:44.059 --> 00:28:46.259
rub dirt in it. I throw it in the garbage can.

00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:48.359
Do you still want it? Do you still want it? That

00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:54.079
to me helps me remember worth. You never lose

00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:58.099
that worth. And that's important. When you're

00:28:58.099 --> 00:29:00.519
telling that story, I remember you doing that.

00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:04.660
It was a $20 bill. It was in Lehigh. That was

00:29:04.660 --> 00:29:06.519
a long time ago. It would have been in December

00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:10.440
of 1998, actually. Oh gosh, I did that in a meeting?

00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:15.059
I remember that, yeah. You were being all pontificating

00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:18.359
and stuff, I think. But it was impactful, the

00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.460
points there. I only had a $20 bill then. The

00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:23.079
points there. The second scripture. You've leveled

00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:25.299
up now. Yes, I've leveled up. Oh, it's inflation,

00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:30.279
babe. Nobody cares about $20 anymore. It's inflation.

00:29:31.180 --> 00:29:33.460
You know, when we move to that next scripture

00:29:33.460 --> 00:29:36.339
in Matthew, Matthew 22, love, you know, love

00:29:36.339 --> 00:29:40.819
is the great commandment, right? Love the Lord

00:29:40.819 --> 00:29:42.660
thy God with all thy heart, might, mind, and

00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:44.960
strength. And then the second one is like unto

00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.099
it to love thy neighbor as thyself. And it's

00:29:47.099 --> 00:29:50.819
all about love, loving him. You know, seems like

00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:53.799
that that's the, which is most important then

00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:57.140
to be like him or to love him. And I think that

00:29:57.140 --> 00:30:00.099
this is where some of the tension starts to begin

00:30:00.099 --> 00:30:04.400
as we work through these three scriptures. But

00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:08.259
love, loving Him, it requires capacity. It's

00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:11.240
important for us to understand how does this

00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:16.420
all play in. I think it's important also to be

00:30:16.420 --> 00:30:19.619
open to let Him love us. I mean, I think sometimes

00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:21.980
we are so critical of ourselves that we don't

00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:25.019
feel worthy. of his love. That gets back to what

00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:29.279
Nick was talking about earlier. We're inviting

00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.920
him in. I love the double, the doors opening

00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:36.339
to say, okay, I'm inviting you in to be my God

00:30:36.339 --> 00:30:39.019
today. I'm doing that, Nick. You inspire me.

00:30:39.019 --> 00:30:41.140
I love that they swing inward too. I do too.

00:30:41.859 --> 00:30:45.279
Yeah. One of the things that really impressed

00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:49.799
me about Crystal and Nick's episode, Deb, that

00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:52.539
we referenced earlier, and I invite all of our

00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:55.160
listeners to go back and listen to it, was just

00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.180
the deep amount of love that I heard Crystal

00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:03.619
when she shared her story about coming back and

00:31:03.619 --> 00:31:06.019
just going through this, not coming back, but

00:31:06.019 --> 00:31:08.559
going through this whole process and then putting

00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.180
her and Nick, putting their family back together.

00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:15.660
after years of separation and divorce and challenge

00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:19.480
and addiction and all the other things. That's

00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:22.240
love, you know. And Crystal, I'd kind of like

00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:27.279
to get your take on all of this. So love is interesting

00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:32.359
to me because I think I previously, I felt like

00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:34.819
I had to earn God's love. right? So it was definitely

00:31:34.819 --> 00:31:38.539
more transactional. And I can, I do that in all

00:31:38.539 --> 00:31:40.440
my relationships back then, right? It's like,

00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:43.019
if I can do this right, you will love me more.

00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.140
Which is how I think I learned how it worked

00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:48.960
with God was it, that's how it worked in my own

00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:54.119
relationships, right? So when I learned that

00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:58.440
my whole life could fall apart, I could have

00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.019
things, I could not be the perfect girl, the

00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:04.089
perfect woman, the perfect wife. And God still

00:32:04.089 --> 00:32:07.450
would show up for me in my deepest, darkest moments.

00:32:08.390 --> 00:32:13.589
I felt truly seen. I felt truly loved. And it's

00:32:13.589 --> 00:32:17.849
taught me how to love other people well. That

00:32:17.849 --> 00:32:21.289
it doesn't depend on how they're showing up.

00:32:21.349 --> 00:32:24.670
I still have a choice I can choose to love. And

00:32:24.670 --> 00:32:27.890
when I choose to love, even when people are hard

00:32:27.890 --> 00:32:34.559
to love, I'm learning godly love. I'm learning...

00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:38.299
I'm learning trust. I'm learning humility. I'm

00:32:38.299 --> 00:32:43.019
learning just so many things. And so if I have

00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:46.259
a lot going on within me and I'm like warring,

00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:49.799
it's harder for me to just love for the sake

00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:53.000
of loving. I think it's easier to love other

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:54.759
people in their mess than love yourself in your

00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:59.430
mess. Like I can see people that are... Whatever

00:32:59.430 --> 00:33:03.089
and I don't know why it's super easy for me to

00:33:03.089 --> 00:33:07.769
love them and see God's love for them But for

00:33:07.769 --> 00:33:12.930
some reason that mirror to go If I mess up then

00:33:12.930 --> 00:33:17.809
he I think it's a belief system or maybe a transact

00:33:17.809 --> 00:33:22.470
like you said transactional Piece of it that

00:33:22.470 --> 00:33:25.369
it's like You know, I can see you in your pure

00:33:25.369 --> 00:33:27.769
addiction and I can sit with you in, you know,

00:33:27.849 --> 00:33:30.589
after you told me that you've molested, you know,

00:33:30.690 --> 00:33:32.769
all these little boys in my neighborhood and

00:33:32.769 --> 00:33:35.589
literally, like, I can sit with you and know

00:33:35.589 --> 00:33:38.589
that God loves you. I know that. It's just interesting

00:33:38.589 --> 00:33:41.410
when you were saying that level of love, you

00:33:41.410 --> 00:33:44.269
know, to be able to sit with somebody in their

00:33:44.269 --> 00:33:48.609
mess. I can totally see it, feel it, understand

00:33:48.609 --> 00:33:52.490
it. But I think for me, it's that internal thing.

00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:57.369
I'm going back to Nick's invitation to God to

00:33:57.369 --> 00:34:00.029
say, I'm inviting you in, because I want to fill

00:34:00.029 --> 00:34:05.769
that level of love in my mess. And I love, Crystal,

00:34:05.849 --> 00:34:08.550
the way you kind of teed that up too. You're

00:34:08.550 --> 00:34:11.789
talking about how you felt God's love and how

00:34:11.789 --> 00:34:15.710
we feel love for others and so forth. And the

00:34:15.710 --> 00:34:19.159
commandment is for us to love God. But it's the

00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.000
second one is like unto it that we love them.

00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:24.760
But here's what I know, when I feel God's love,

00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.840
then I can love him. And John reminds us of that

00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:32.039
in first John chapter four verse 18, he's talking

00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:34.179
about love. He's talking about fear and how love

00:34:34.179 --> 00:34:36.219
cast without fear. He says, there is no fear

00:34:36.219 --> 00:34:40.530
in love. How cool is that, right? I mean, fear

00:34:40.530 --> 00:34:43.630
is one of our greatest defenders. There is no

00:34:43.630 --> 00:34:46.190
fear in love, but perfect love, okay, so there's

00:34:46.190 --> 00:34:48.989
that word perfect again. So when we see perfect

00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:52.889
love, I have to make the assumption, I have to

00:34:52.889 --> 00:34:58.889
know academically and spiritually that that perfect

00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:01.530
love is the love of Jesus Christ, the love of

00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:03.309
our Heavenly Father that comes through Jesus

00:35:03.309 --> 00:35:06.599
Christ and is manifest to us by His Spirit. because

00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:11.420
fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made

00:35:11.420 --> 00:35:15.260
imperfect in love. We love him, this is the part,

00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:21.800
we love him because he first loved us. Can I

00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:23.519
say something that's so interesting? If you want

00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:26.780
to get kind of scientific about that, when we

00:35:26.780 --> 00:35:30.579
have fear, when we're moving from fear, our body

00:35:30.579 --> 00:35:34.300
gets really dysregulated and you start to move

00:35:34.300 --> 00:35:37.460
into kind of a fight or flight. space, right?

00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.300
So your heartbeat starts to raise, you start

00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:43.820
to feel unsafe, unsteady. And when that happens,

00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:47.539
your prefrontal cortex, your thinking logical

00:35:47.539 --> 00:35:50.420
brain shuts down and you move into more of your

00:35:50.420 --> 00:35:52.780
limbic, which is your reptilian brain. You're

00:35:52.780 --> 00:35:54.840
just going to try to fight the person, get away

00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:57.420
from the person, fawn or freeze, right? Those

00:35:57.420 --> 00:36:00.760
are kind of the states you move into. But...

00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:02.869
When you're in that state, what we try to do

00:36:02.869 --> 00:36:05.429
is you try to regulate the nervous system. And

00:36:05.429 --> 00:36:08.170
when you're in a regulated nervous system, you

00:36:08.170 --> 00:36:11.849
bring in more peace, more love, kind of. That's

00:36:11.849 --> 00:36:13.829
really what you're trying to do into your body

00:36:13.829 --> 00:36:16.750
so it can regulate a little bit. And when you're

00:36:16.750 --> 00:36:20.550
regulated, your brain gets back on track. And

00:36:20.550 --> 00:36:22.570
now we can be more thoughtful about how we want

00:36:22.570 --> 00:36:24.909
to move forward. We're much more intentional

00:36:24.909 --> 00:36:28.050
about our choices. And to me, it's like, you

00:36:28.050 --> 00:36:31.099
know, faith or fear. can move you in such different

00:36:31.099 --> 00:36:33.840
directions and so God when he's like he's saying

00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.599
trust me or God is love I really think it's like

00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.820
this regulation for a nervous system that gets

00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:43.320
us on track and then we can move forward in the

00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:45.699
ways that God wants us to move forward we're

00:36:45.699 --> 00:36:48.059
much more guided in the direction that's going

00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:50.920
to be good for us versus very reactive and fearful

00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:54.659
so the opposite of fear is not faith it's love

00:36:54.989 --> 00:36:57.849
Crystal, thanks for sharing that. Crystal is

00:36:57.849 --> 00:37:02.550
a LCSW? Clinical Mental Health Counselor. It's

00:37:02.550 --> 00:37:05.070
a long name. Clinical Mental Health Counselor.

00:37:06.130 --> 00:37:09.409
And she actually is currently working in one

00:37:09.409 --> 00:37:13.369
of our beloved local rehab centers and just brings

00:37:13.369 --> 00:37:17.550
with her a great perspective from that. So thanks

00:37:17.550 --> 00:37:20.949
for sharing that, Crystal. So the interesting

00:37:20.949 --> 00:37:23.829
thing about love... Especially at the end of

00:37:23.829 --> 00:37:25.949
that scripture that you just read is we love

00:37:25.949 --> 00:37:29.710
him because he loved us first is I believe that

00:37:29.710 --> 00:37:34.150
true change and true repentance comes when we

00:37:34.150 --> 00:37:40.250
experience that love and then what I found is

00:37:40.250 --> 00:37:44.369
I feel that my job is to go out and to serve

00:37:44.369 --> 00:37:49.150
others, you know, and so like my life has been

00:37:49.150 --> 00:37:54.019
set up in a way where the main focus is service,

00:37:54.019 --> 00:37:57.219
you know, so each morning it's like Alright God

00:37:57.219 --> 00:37:59.800
put me to work like I'm gonna move my feet. You

00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:01.980
just put the people in front of me who you know

00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:05.139
at work How can we be helpful who you know the

00:38:05.139 --> 00:38:07.440
people at work? How can we help them? How can

00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:11.900
we help the customers at? Home like how can how

00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:15.019
can I help the family, you know, and it and it's

00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:19.539
I find that The more that I'm inconvenienced

00:38:19.539 --> 00:38:24.300
by service You know, and I think it's gonna be

00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:26.320
an inconvenience on the front end, but afterwards,

00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:29.739
you know, I find that, you know, my heart's just

00:38:29.739 --> 00:38:34.940
full and I feel like that is the way that I truly

00:38:34.940 --> 00:38:37.900
show that love and that's why I love those two,

00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:40.619
you know, loving your neighbor and loving God

00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:44.179
being so connected is because I feel like that's

00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:46.079
really the only way for me to show God that I

00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:50.639
love him is by serving others. Definitely a great

00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:54.000
way to align, right? Absolutely. I mean, you

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.480
know, and if we want to go back a step and talk

00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:59.519
about being like Him, you know, the first thing

00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.500
we were talking, we're talking about loving Him

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.199
now, but the first thing we were talking about

00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:05.219
was being like Him. How can you be more like

00:39:05.219 --> 00:39:08.780
Him than to serve others? I mean, that was His

00:39:08.780 --> 00:39:12.400
whole life. Yeah. I don't think that there, I

00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.420
mean, when you go through and, you know, examine

00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:18.380
those first four gospels and stuff, like it's

00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:22.849
all about Service. All about that. All about

00:39:22.849 --> 00:39:26.610
that. His whole life. And then when we study

00:39:26.610 --> 00:39:29.849
even restoration scripture, even his pre -mortal

00:39:29.849 --> 00:39:33.050
life was all about service. His anti -mortal

00:39:33.050 --> 00:39:36.610
life is all about service. His entire existence

00:39:36.610 --> 00:39:39.889
is about service. Serving the Father by serving

00:39:39.889 --> 00:39:43.230
us. And we serve the Father by serving each other

00:39:43.230 --> 00:39:48.860
as well. So, love him. and be like him, they're

00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:53.219
really kind of one in the same. I tell people

00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:57.139
all the time, I like to think of people who I've

00:39:57.139 --> 00:40:01.019
known. My grandpa, my grandpa Fagan, for example,

00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.539
I knew him because he loved me first, I loved

00:40:04.539 --> 00:40:08.960
him. And because he spent so much time with him,

00:40:09.019 --> 00:40:11.199
I mean, I really knew him. And the more I got

00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:13.579
to know him, knowing the deeper I loved him and

00:40:13.579 --> 00:40:17.119
the deeper I loved him, then came my deep desire

00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:23.800
to be like him. And I train horses and he taught

00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:26.579
me to train horses and I tried to emulate what

00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:30.420
he taught me there. I tried to emulate other

00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:33.780
mannerisms and characteristics and beliefs and

00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:38.019
things that he held to be important to him because

00:40:38.019 --> 00:40:40.460
of my relationship. And I think that's the key,

00:40:40.659 --> 00:40:43.400
Dev, is that relationship, my relationship with

00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:45.380
him. And so this is the same with my Heavenly

00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:48.739
Father. In my step two, I'm not just chucking

00:40:48.739 --> 00:40:51.179
a box, I'm developing a relationship. Why am

00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:54.300
I developing this relationship? Why am I investing

00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.730
my time? Why am I getting to know him? Do I want

00:40:57.730 --> 00:41:00.889
to be like him and fostering that desire so that

00:41:00.889 --> 00:41:04.269
my service will be deeper and more rendered appropriately

00:41:04.269 --> 00:41:07.690
and with more alignment to him? The reason I'm

00:41:07.690 --> 00:41:11.630
doing all that is so that when I come to step

00:41:11.630 --> 00:41:15.730
three and it asks me or it invites me to be willing

00:41:15.730 --> 00:41:18.849
to turn my will over to him, then I can fully

00:41:18.849 --> 00:41:23.469
trust that I can do that. Yeah, I think for me,

00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:28.260
trusting is the muscle we exercise through to

00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:32.460
the knowing. Because we don't quite know until

00:41:32.460 --> 00:41:37.539
we trust and have faith. And then we know. It's

00:41:37.539 --> 00:41:39.260
like, then we get through it and we're like,

00:41:39.500 --> 00:41:43.260
oh, I see all of that now. It's very, very clear.

00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:47.360
But I want that knowing when I'm in it. Yeah.

00:41:47.780 --> 00:41:50.179
Well, it's life, it's life eternal to know Him.

00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:53.219
And I think knowing Him helps us know that. Yeah.

00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:59.090
Right. So knowing him, there's a few things that

00:41:59.090 --> 00:42:01.650
really can happen as we begin to know him. As

00:42:01.650 --> 00:42:05.369
we know him, it really increases the accuracy

00:42:05.369 --> 00:42:09.210
of our perceived identity. We've talked about

00:42:09.210 --> 00:42:12.150
how our identity will determine our eternity.

00:42:12.650 --> 00:42:17.769
We've talked about how our identity is so important

00:42:17.769 --> 00:42:21.739
and can... Really determine who we are whose

00:42:21.739 --> 00:42:24.900
we are too. You know knowing that makes all the

00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:28.400
difference in the world You were talking a little

00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.619
bit about how I work in addiction recovery, and

00:42:30.619 --> 00:42:35.519
I see this to where clients that You know they're

00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:38.380
used to being in a certain environment And now

00:42:38.380 --> 00:42:40.260
they come into a different environment, and they're

00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:44.039
asked to trust people to do things that are different

00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.570
to live kind of different and they're not used

00:42:47.570 --> 00:42:50.070
to it, right? And a lot of them kind of will

00:42:50.070 --> 00:42:54.230
push against it. But there are some that are

00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:56.750
like, I'm just going to trust. I'm just going

00:42:56.750 --> 00:42:59.090
to trust you guys because if you're asking me

00:42:59.090 --> 00:43:02.429
to do it, chances are it's good for me. And so

00:43:02.429 --> 00:43:05.230
I like that. I think again, that's like this

00:43:05.230 --> 00:43:07.489
teachable moment. It's this moment where you

00:43:07.489 --> 00:43:10.550
think to yourself, I got nothing to lose here

00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:14.130
and everything to gain. And I've been doing it

00:43:14.130 --> 00:43:15.809
on my own and it hasn't really worked out that

00:43:15.809 --> 00:43:19.590
great for me, so I'm gonna trust that there's

00:43:19.590 --> 00:43:24.869
a better way. And you know, you don't, you're

00:43:24.869 --> 00:43:27.909
not led by people you don't trust. So you have

00:43:27.909 --> 00:43:30.750
to develop that relationship and know that they're

00:43:30.750 --> 00:43:34.030
gonna lead you in the right direction. I think

00:43:34.030 --> 00:43:36.570
it's important to know that we don't heal by

00:43:36.570 --> 00:43:46.079
trying harder. But aligning and feeling the Spirit

00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:52.219
and inviting Him in, I think is, again, I go

00:43:52.219 --> 00:43:54.460
back to this, because this is where I'm at, is

00:43:54.460 --> 00:43:56.800
strengthening that trust muscle into that knowing.

00:43:57.699 --> 00:44:01.460
I think it's focus and intent. Because how am

00:44:01.460 --> 00:44:03.280
I going to get to knowing better if I don't read

00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:05.360
the Scriptures? For sure. How am I going to get

00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:09.389
to knowing better if I don't cry out? in prayer

00:44:09.389 --> 00:44:13.349
and all of that. So I know what you're saying,

00:44:13.769 --> 00:44:15.789
that if we're just doing those things for the

00:44:15.789 --> 00:44:17.530
sake of doing those things. I can't tell you

00:44:17.530 --> 00:44:19.289
how many times when I was struggling with my

00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:23.130
alcoholism, somebody, not just a person, but

00:44:23.130 --> 00:44:25.510
multiple people on multiple occasions would say,

00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:28.719
if you just prayed more fervently. If you would

00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:30.940
just pray more fervently and just have more faith,

00:44:31.019 --> 00:44:33.280
you'd be able to overcome this. And that wasn't

00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:35.780
the case because my focus was on me. It wasn't

00:44:35.780 --> 00:44:39.579
on him at the time. It was all wrong. I was focusing

00:44:39.579 --> 00:44:42.860
on my relationship with me. I wasn't focusing

00:44:42.860 --> 00:44:44.780
on my relationship with him. And I didn't know

00:44:44.780 --> 00:44:47.139
him well enough. I didn't know him right enough,

00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:51.320
maybe well enough, but in the wrong ways to really

00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:54.539
know him. I didn't know him. I thought I did.

00:44:54.860 --> 00:44:58.320
I had this perception that had been developed

00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.820
through cultural experiences, through my own

00:45:01.820 --> 00:45:05.480
perception by listening to the voice of the accuser

00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:08.880
and so many, many other ways. It wasn't until

00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:12.019
I really got to know him that I felt his love.

00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:16.679
And that was after I got sober. I mean, I had

00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:19.699
felt his love previous, but to really engage

00:45:19.699 --> 00:45:22.480
and have a relationship where I could tap into

00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:26.820
that and feel that just by being present in the

00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:29.019
relationship, that's when it began to change

00:45:29.019 --> 00:45:33.219
for me. Knowing him allowed me to love him. And

00:45:33.219 --> 00:45:36.679
loving him inspires me to be like him. You know,

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:40.260
it feels like to me, the more I think I know

00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.920
him, the more I don't know him. Like, there's

00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:49.389
a whole... new room of, or a whole new part of

00:45:49.389 --> 00:45:52.449
him that I do not know. Because I really thought,

00:45:53.150 --> 00:45:55.449
yeah, I know him. I trust him. I, you know, I

00:45:55.449 --> 00:45:59.449
can testify. I can, I can go and, you know, say

00:45:59.449 --> 00:46:03.829
all those right words and tell, you know, my

00:46:03.829 --> 00:46:08.030
feet get in that fire. And it's like, okay, I

00:46:08.030 --> 00:46:10.170
know the right answer, but do I live the right

00:46:10.170 --> 00:46:16.619
answer? And so really trusting him. is another

00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:19.380
muscle for me. Well, and when we really trust

00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:24.340
in Him and when we align with Him, we're still

00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:26.820
doing the same stuff. We're still praying. For

00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:29.059
sure. We're still reading scriptures. We're still

00:46:29.059 --> 00:46:30.559
serving other people. But I don't have the answer,

00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:34.820
that's all I'm saying. But we're doing it from

00:46:34.820 --> 00:46:36.639
a different perspective. We're doing it from

00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:39.480
the lens of the healing through the atonement

00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:44.559
of Jesus Christ. Which is surrender. Think of

00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:47.699
it and it's like the actions outwardly maybe

00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:50.960
don't seem different, you know praying reading

00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:54.059
right all these things, but like I'm coming from

00:46:54.059 --> 00:46:57.659
a place Well, you know Christ talks about it

00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:00.739
to to be like a child to be willing teachable

00:47:00.739 --> 00:47:04.039
submissive meek humble patient full of love,

00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:07.760
you know and and to have a willing heart and

00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.900
then to be willing to accept him in and all of

00:47:10.900 --> 00:47:15.119
a sudden that changes the focus. Right. But when

00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.960
I've heard the word in the past, surrender, that

00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:21.880
almost seems like, um, do nothing, you know,

00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:24.780
time to just give up, sit down and just, and

00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:27.119
just, and just, and then just become a victim

00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.670
and let things happen. You know, that's not surrenders.

00:47:31.289 --> 00:47:35.010
You describe surrender perfectly. You know, it's

00:47:35.010 --> 00:47:38.269
an attitude. It's a way of being. It's not in

00:47:38.269 --> 00:47:41.010
our action. Our actions can be the same, but

00:47:41.010 --> 00:47:44.670
for a different reason. Well, I think then, Deb,

00:47:44.909 --> 00:47:49.130
you know, when we talk about... Is it more important

00:47:49.130 --> 00:47:51.389
to be like him? Is it more important to love

00:47:51.389 --> 00:47:55.050
him? Is it more important to know him? I think

00:47:55.050 --> 00:47:57.329
we've kind of wrestled with that today and we've

00:47:57.329 --> 00:48:00.369
put it in perspective in what that really means

00:48:00.369 --> 00:48:04.829
in terms of me coming to believe that a power

00:48:04.829 --> 00:48:07.949
greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

00:48:08.730 --> 00:48:11.650
Really believing that, really having a relationship

00:48:11.650 --> 00:48:15.030
and knowing almost that that can happen. All

00:48:15.030 --> 00:48:16.989
of those things really create an invitation for

00:48:16.989 --> 00:48:20.269
us too, don't they? For sure. For sure. It's

00:48:20.269 --> 00:48:23.389
that, like Nick said, it's that surrender. It's

00:48:23.389 --> 00:48:29.070
that coming to Him. Being submissive and childlike,

00:48:29.409 --> 00:48:32.570
teachable. I love that and I love that reminder.

00:48:33.650 --> 00:48:36.570
Because if you think about children, and I spent

00:48:36.570 --> 00:48:39.429
last weekend with... five of my grandkids that

00:48:39.429 --> 00:48:42.889
they are very submissive. They believe and they

00:48:42.889 --> 00:48:45.090
believe everything you tell them. That's the

00:48:45.090 --> 00:48:47.170
other part. They believe everything you tell

00:48:47.170 --> 00:48:49.969
them. I know sometimes we go in this magical

00:48:49.969 --> 00:48:52.829
little world but it's it's they are very teachable

00:48:52.829 --> 00:48:56.409
and it's that's a good reminder to you know.

00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:59.900
Come unto come unto me and I will give you rest.

00:48:59.940 --> 00:49:02.599
Yeah, Matthew 1128. That's the encapsulation

00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:06.000
of all of this You know when I think of when

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:10.300
I think of step two It's an invitation now to

00:49:10.300 --> 00:49:13.239
become willing to turn my will in my life over

00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:15.000
to the care of God as I understand him Which

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:20.539
is step three a great invitation and now as I

00:49:20.539 --> 00:49:25.139
move into step three through Matthew 1128 I'm

00:49:25.139 --> 00:49:27.559
gonna read this. I remember very distinctly Nick

00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:30.159
talking about this on his podcast when David

00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:33.679
and I interviewed Nick, how this impacted you

00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:35.659
at some point in your life. I don't know if you

00:49:35.659 --> 00:49:38.079
remember talking about that in that story, but

00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:40.840
this is the scripture. It says, come unto me,

00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:43.139
all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I

00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:47.590
will give you rest. That invitation, you know,

00:49:47.590 --> 00:49:51.849
if I can believe somebody can actually give me

00:49:51.849 --> 00:49:54.530
rest, rest from what? Rest from the pains of

00:49:54.530 --> 00:49:57.929
my addiction, rest from all of the various forms

00:49:57.929 --> 00:50:01.309
of the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve, including

00:50:01.309 --> 00:50:05.690
sin, but not just sin. And then he goes on, take

00:50:05.690 --> 00:50:09.570
my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am meek

00:50:09.570 --> 00:50:11.789
and lowly of heart and you shall find rest unto

00:50:11.789 --> 00:50:15.940
your souls for my yoke is easy. and my burden

00:50:15.940 --> 00:50:18.780
is light. I'm gonna give him my heavy burden

00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:23.389
then. I'm going to give each one of you a chance

00:50:23.389 --> 00:50:28.090
to just wrap up with a thought or two, but to

00:50:28.090 --> 00:50:32.630
me that right there encapsulates what it means

00:50:32.630 --> 00:50:35.769
for me when I come to know him well enough that

00:50:35.769 --> 00:50:38.269
my love for him is deep enough that my desire

00:50:38.269 --> 00:50:41.989
to be like him is evident in my alignment and

00:50:41.989 --> 00:50:44.690
the things that I do are actually become for

00:50:44.690 --> 00:50:47.869
that reason. And then even then I have a deeper

00:50:47.869 --> 00:50:50.909
desire to know him more and without even I do

00:50:50.909 --> 00:50:52.889
know him more because I get to experience what

00:50:52.889 --> 00:50:55.389
he experienced, not just academically, but I

00:50:55.389 --> 00:50:58.610
get to experience those things as well. I know

00:50:58.610 --> 00:51:02.179
that. I know that a relationship with deity,

00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:06.679
with the Father, through Jesus Christ, administrated

00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:09.559
and administered by the Holy Ghost in my life,

00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:13.420
is the key to me overcoming all of the effects

00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:16.239
of the fall of Adam and Eve, including my alcoholism,

00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:18.679
including drug addiction, including all the other

00:51:18.679 --> 00:51:21.420
things that have been so ugly in my life. It's

00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:24.500
all because of that. Because I have answered

00:51:24.500 --> 00:51:27.280
to the best of my ability and tried to do this.

00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:32.539
and try to do so every day, the invitation, come

00:51:32.539 --> 00:51:39.019
follow me. I know that I will get frustrated

00:51:39.019 --> 00:51:43.320
again and again and again. If I'm growing, I'm

00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:47.679
gonna get frustrated. And I feel like God wants

00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.780
me to grow. So that's gonna be part of it. So

00:51:50.780 --> 00:51:53.099
I know I'm gonna get frustrated, but when I can

00:51:53.099 --> 00:51:56.099
catch myself, and you can usually catch myself

00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:59.159
when I feel the weight of the world on me, then

00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:01.320
I know I have to really have that conversation

00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:06.699
with God. And when I do, there is just this knowing

00:52:06.699 --> 00:52:10.599
that everything's gonna be okay. And I don't

00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:13.019
know how that's gonna happen, but God's gonna

00:52:13.019 --> 00:52:16.579
give me the strength to get through it. He will

00:52:16.579 --> 00:52:19.820
guide people in my life. Things tend to just

00:52:19.820 --> 00:52:23.599
work out. And maybe not exactly how I envisioned

00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:26.679
it to work out, right? Like, God's not gonna

00:52:26.679 --> 00:52:31.440
give me a million dollars, but God always gives

00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:36.699
me enough, right? And so learning to see the

00:52:36.699 --> 00:52:40.460
good when it comes instead of kind of... expecting

00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:43.760
that Christmas list, wish list, and not getting

00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:47.000
it, you know? But when I can find that peace,

00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:53.539
I know I can get through anything. Yeah, I go

00:52:53.539 --> 00:52:55.800
back to that thing that I read at the very first

00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:58.019
from the big book, you know, what seemed at first

00:52:58.019 --> 00:53:01.099
a flimsy read turned out to be the loving and

00:53:01.099 --> 00:53:03.539
powerful hand of God, you know, and it makes

00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:08.119
me think of another scripture, you know, through...

00:53:08.380 --> 00:53:10.699
small and simple things are great things brought

00:53:10.699 --> 00:53:14.719
to pass, you know, that it didn't require much,

00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:18.760
you know, but it required consistency. And I

00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:20.659
really like how it's written, came to believe.

00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.139
So it's as I'm looking back, as I've walked through

00:53:23.139 --> 00:53:26.219
things, then I go, oh, okay, you know what? Like

00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:28.400
I see God's hand all over the place. You know,

00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.139
I've heard it said that we live life forward

00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:33.239
and understand it backwards, you know, and that

00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:36.099
seems how, that, you know, it's one of those

00:53:36.099 --> 00:53:40.239
spiritual paradoxes, but. You know, I found that

00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:42.800
for me it's just been through consistency and

00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:48.280
effort. You know, that I've really come to believe

00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:50.599
in a power greater than myself, come to believe

00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:53.019
in the power of the Savior, you know, and I had

00:53:53.019 --> 00:53:57.500
to seek those things out, you know, but it didn't

00:53:57.500 --> 00:54:01.059
require much more than just being willing and

00:54:01.059 --> 00:54:05.199
being willing to put in some effort. You have

00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:08.840
made the effort and it's a different effort we

00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:11.760
read out in Miller's Statement, I'm not going

00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:14.059
to do it tonight, but we read it again last week

00:54:14.059 --> 00:54:16.920
about how you know just focusing on him It's

00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:19.199
it's a different. It's work still work. It's

00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:22.159
just a different work altogether and that effort

00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:24.940
you've done both of you I've been a front -row

00:54:24.940 --> 00:54:28.099
seat to Nick, but both of you have really done

00:54:28.099 --> 00:54:30.539
that effort. I'm so glad you were here Nick and

00:54:30.539 --> 00:54:32.949
Crystal. We love you. Thanks Thanks for having

00:54:32.949 --> 00:54:37.969
us. Thank you. It's always a treat to have you

00:54:37.969 --> 00:54:40.050
guys here. I always get food for thought and

00:54:40.050 --> 00:54:45.210
I can relate and then I learn and so it's great

00:54:45.210 --> 00:54:49.409
for me to reflect on know him, love him, be like

00:54:49.409 --> 00:54:54.369
him in the simple steps, in small and simple

00:54:54.369 --> 00:54:58.730
things and it's given me some hope right now

00:54:58.730 --> 00:55:04.960
to move forward and to just remember that there

00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:08.460
is a power greater than me and I know him and

00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:13.519
I do love him and I do want to be like him and

00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:18.920
I strive in moments in those small and simple

00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:23.559
ways and what I'm like like I said earlier the

00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:25.400
more I learn the more I realize I don't know

00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:28.500
anything so I'm I'm just grateful for this opportunity

00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:32.860
to exercise my faith muscles and my belief muscles

00:55:32.860 --> 00:55:35.940
and my trust muscles and I just pray that we

00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:40.099
can all do those small and simple things that

00:55:40.099 --> 00:55:42.760
will bring us closer to Him. And the other part

00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:45.360
is to be yoked with Him because I want that light

00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:49.199
burden. I want my burden to be light like His.

00:55:49.860 --> 00:55:51.500
And aligning with Him will give me that and I

00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:54.260
know that. Thanks for being with us, Nick and

00:55:54.260 --> 00:55:58.179
Crystal. I love you Deb. I love you. I love them.

00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:01.460
And we love you guys so much. I look, I really

00:56:01.460 --> 00:56:03.920
look forward to next month. I'm not exactly sure

00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:06.780
when in March, but sometime in March we'll get

00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:08.619
together again and we'll talk about the third

00:56:08.619 --> 00:56:10.800
step from Alcoholics Anonymous. Our invitation

00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:13.940
to you this weekend between actually now and

00:56:13.940 --> 00:56:17.599
then is to really, really come to know him, to

00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:20.280
really understand and believe that a power greater

00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:25.300
and really know who. that power is, that he can

00:56:25.300 --> 00:56:30.639
restore us to sanity. I always said that that's

00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:33.739
kind of presumptuous that somebody would think

00:56:33.739 --> 00:56:37.179
that I was ever, that I ever had sanity to be

00:56:37.179 --> 00:56:40.739
restored to, but he will nonetheless restore

00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:44.760
us to the sanity of our completion. I testify

00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:46.559
of that. Thanks so much for being with us, everybody.

00:56:46.619 --> 00:56:48.119
We look forward to being with you again next

00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:56.719
week, and until then, be well. you