Hey there, everybody. Well, welcome out to another
episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. This is
Scott Durfee joined as always by the beautiful.
What other adjectives you want me to use today?
Deb Durfee. You don't need any adjectives. Hi,
Deb. Hi. Here we are again. It's been about two
weeks, actually 10 days or so since we released.
There's a reason for that. We're not going to
get into that. But I'm grateful that we're here
tonight. We're grateful to have some really close
great friends here tonight to kind of share some
experience, strength and hope with us. But before
we do that, we just want to thank everybody for
your emails and your texts. A few of you cousins
and family who have been doing that as well.
We appreciate that. We appreciate the encouragement.
You know, sometimes we do this labor of love
and it really is a labor of love. There's a ton
of work attached to it. There's no renumeration
at all or anything like that, but we're definitely
fed spiritually as we receive your comments and
your emails and hear how maybe some of you are
even being touched by some of the principles
that we're exploring here. So grateful for that.
Over the past several episodes, Deb, probably
20. We've talked about having Nick back on. If
you'll remember, Nick, I think it was season
two. Or one maybe even the first or second season
that we had a good friend of mine Nick David
and I had a good friend of mine Nick on Nick
is If you're it's okay. I'll just gonna give
a little rundown Nick and I have an association
through an organization called alcoholics anonymous
We're close friends and get to work closely together
There I've been able to see Nick through most
of his recovery and his story has been just an
amazing story of redemption and of recovery and
of all of the blessings that come from Christ's
Atonement. I encourage you, in fact I'll try
and remember to drop a link or put the link in
the show notes for this one because it will be
maybe important for some of you to go back and
to really to connect with what Nick has to say
to hear that whole story. It's a really good
episode. Yeah, one of the best, one of the best.
Long story short, Nick, you lived a pretty rough
life after growing up in Happy Valley, Utah,
in a very LDS family, a very LDS situation, and
your life for the most part was pretty great,
but like me, you took a detour in life, and you
went down a pretty rough path for a while. Yeah,
it was, it got a little crazy there. That's an
understatement. Nick met a beautiful woman while
he was going to the University of Utah, is that
right? It was after that in a singles ward. Okay.
Up there in Salt Lake. Okay. And they got married,
and because of Nick's addiction, we're gonna
talk about some of this and stuff like that.
They ended up divorced for seven years. Here
they are seven years later, married again, and
that's what we're gonna talk about today. I think
you just gave away the punch line. No, I did
not. It's like telling somebody that died in
a movie. No, no. They're obviously married again,
Deb, they're here, so. Yeah, yeah, so anyway.
But there's a lot of cool stories. Welcome, welcome,
welcome, Nick and Crystal. What a treat it is
to have you back, Nick, and what a treat it is
to have you with us, Crystal. Thank you. Yeah,
tell us a little bit about you, Crystal. Oh gosh.
I grew up kind of all over the place. I come
from a big family. My parents divorced when I
was 10. There were five girls in the family.
Parents divorced. Lots of bouncing around in
my life, you know, back then. Kind of a lot of
hard things, and then my parents remarried. I
have lots of brothers and sisters now. And, yeah.
Your parents didn't remarry. Well, they remarried
other people. They didn't remarry each other,
yes. They got remarried, yes. Married to other
people. They got married to other people. And
then, yeah, I mean. That's a whole other, that's
a whole other story. So were you raised in the
church? How was it for you growing up? Yeah,
I was raised in the church. When my parents divorced,
there was a little bit of, my mom wasn't active
as much then, my dad still was, and so there
was, we weren't super active members, but I remember
being really aware of what God thought of me,
I was worried, and so I would go to church by
myself. I just tried to keep towing the line
a little bit, you know, because I just, I wanted
God to be happy with me. You learned at a young
age, right? Yeah, to be obedient. To be obedient,
yep. Yeah, that's fantastic. So did you live
with your mom or your dad? I lived with my mom
for a while, and then I moved in with my dad
when I was in junior high, and then moved. back
in with my mom my senior year of high school,
so. Were they close in proximity to each other?
My dad lived in Centerville and my mom lived
in Cottonwood Heights. Okay, so not super far,
not different states, but definitely different
cities. Yes. Okay. Yeah. You did go on a mission.
Went on a mission, you know, I gotta keep doing
all the right things. Yeah, there must've been
some testimony involved there though. I definitely
feel like God has really been a huge part of
my life. I think God's always really been there
for me. There are definitely moments when I felt
very alone and I have cultivated a really strong
relationship with God. It's changed over the
years. When I was younger, the relationship was
more transactional. Like I need to do what God
wants me to do, otherwise He'll be disappointed
in me and I won't get the blessings. And I really
wanted the blessings. And so, So yeah, I try
to do the right thing, say the right thing, you
know, be the right girl, all of that. And then
I think life has just shook me a bit. And now
my relationship is a lot more guided. I'm rebuilding
that trust with God in a different kind of a
way. And maybe that might make more sense as
we kind of get into the story. Well, so you met
at a singles ward and then you got married Tell
us about your dating and your marriage. I'd been
married once before I had I Think she was five
You know I had struggled with alcoholism and
addiction before going to this ward and and I
Was trying to get get out of that and I didn't
know about 12 -step program at that point in
time and you know, I was like 24 years old or
something like that and and so I was using religion
is kind of my way to get through that and I joined
the singles ward and it was a lot of fun and
really got involved and and we met and then Maybe
a year after we met and started dating we got
married and then We were married for what 12
13 years something like that and had two more
kids and then The addiction came back. Well,
it never really left He told me that he had had
some problems with painkillers, but he had been
through recovery and done all of that. And I,
it did the, like, it didn't scare me. I just
thought, here's someone who's been through something
really challenging and he's been able to overcome
it. And I thought that was cool. Right. Right.
Right. I put it on hold for a couple of years
and I thought it was just gone, you know, and
I didn't understand exactly what I was dealing
with there. Meaning the addiction. Yeah. The
addiction, you know, but then after we'd been
married for a little bit, you know, it started
coming back that desire, that, that noise in
my head. That's like, you can't do this. You're
not enough. All of, you know, the fear, the,
you know, and, and the thing about, um, addiction
is that it's the ultimate counterfeit spiritual
experience, you know, and it's easy and it always
works until it turns on you, you know? But so
I went back to what I knew. You know and just
tried to keep it at bay for You know for ten
plus years, you know, and it it was and then
the wheels Just totally came off there in about
2017 2018, you know and we ended up getting divorced
that was your 13 of your marriage. Yeah, okay
Got it Nick Let me just kind of backpedal here
a little bit. In the previous episode when we,
David and I interviewed you, you talked about
your relationship. Crystal just talked about
her relationship with God and that how it has
changed from being a transactional, that's how
it was for me too by the way, I thought God was
just a cop waiting to it. for me to make a mistake
so he could bust me. And that stupid thinking
still sneaks its way back into my head on occasion.
That is kind of frustrating, but I guess that's
part of the fallen experience that we get to
experience here. And another reason why we get
to put on the atonement of Jesus Christ so he
can strengthen us and enable us and compensate
us through all of that, right? But Nick, one
of the things that you talked about in that episode
was the way you saw Christ or the way you saw
God and that it was only available to you through
the church. Is that an accurate depiction? Yeah,
so I had this belief that the church owned God
and Jesus and the Spirit and if it wasn't done
some particular way that you weren't going to
get there. And it was like, if you're not living
within these rules within the church, what's
the point of even trying? And so I almost viewed
it like I had to worship or have that relationship
through the institution of the church. So I went
along to get along for most of my life. you know,
it was more like, I'm going to check off these
boxes because I've never really had an experience
with, with God or Jesus, you know, one of those
that like touches your heart and changes you.
You know, and then, then I became real jaded
and calloused and, and decided that, uh, I was
Deliberately gonna do everything I was told not
to do cuz I was angry, you know and and Because
of the path that I was going down Which ultimately
led me to a relationship with God and and with
the Savior that's It's it's mine, you know, regardless
of anything else like it is an individual Well,
Crystal, you marry this guy. You know he's had
a little bit of a problem. You're pretty proud
of him that he's been able to valiantly overcome
this little problem of opiate addiction or whatever.
And it's true, and those things do happen. And
you should have been proud of him. That was a
big deal. And Nick, you should give yourself,
and I think you do, give yourself credit for
what. You did allow God to do in your life even
then, you know. And Crystal, how was it when
you saw him starting to unwind? Talk to me about
that. What was it like for you? when you saw
this all starting to unwind for him, and how
was your hope, and where were you able to lean
into any kind of spiritual help with Heavenly
Father, or did you have others around you? Talk
to us about that. That had to be a challenging
time for a mom, and a wife who loves her husband.
Yeah. I didn't know much about addiction actually.
Um, and so I was pretty oblivious to things until
things just weren't making sense. Um, so, you
know, sometimes you just have this feeling like
something's off. I can't put my finger on it,
but there's something there. And so whenever
I would talk to Nick about it, he would deflect.
He would be like, you're, you know, you don't
know what you're talking about. And I was like,
okay, you're probably right. It was confusing.
It was really confusing. I also need to say too
that when my mom was inactive for a little bit,
but she got back into the church, my family was
strong in the church later on. And they were
such a huge support to me when I was going through
all of this. So I really leaned on my family
a lot. I think something that paints a picture
really well for me, maybe you can kind of understand
how I was moving through it. When I was younger,
I was 10, I was at the... beach and I was you
know how you body surf and you like you have
to dive underneath the waves so they don't take
you under I was doing that and one of the waves
I didn't dive fast enough and it took me under
I don't know if you've ever experienced that
but it like takes you and it flips you like you're
somersaulting right and I remember kind of panicking
and being like I don't know I was swimming just
swimming swimming swimming and Something in me
was like, I don't know where I'm going. I don't
know which way am I going up? Am I going sideways?
Am I going down? And something in me was just
like, just kind of like, surrender was kind of
like, just go limp, right? Just stop. And the
air will bring you up to the surface. And so
I just, I stopped swimming and I came up to the
surface and just took a big breath of fresh air,
right? It was kind of like that for me. I'm holding
my breath hearing this. It's like when everything
was happening, I was swimming frantically, trying
to figure out what to do, how to solve this problem,
where do I go, how do I fix this, right? And
then it got so bad that there was just a point
of real surrender, because I was like, I need
help and I don't know. how to help myself here.
And that moment, that's when I really started
to develop a really strong relationship with
God. Yeah, that's where the trust comes in, isn't
it? Yeah. And Deb, you talk a lot about this.
It's in that literal letting go before we're
able to really take on the blessings that are
available to us. That's what I mean by that,
Deb. You talk about receiving those blessings
and that's how that has to happen. Well, and
I have a lot of pictures to go with those words
because the insanity become, I mean, you get
to that point and I can relate to that undercurrent
and that chaos. And when you're living that,
you realize there is not a single solitary person
that knows what I'm going through right now or
that can support me. This is bigger than me and
all of the universe. And it's like, I had to
get to a point where I had to push pause and
go, who do I really trust that can fix this?
Or who can, like, who can I trust with this?
Because this is a really big story and this is
a really big mess. And so it's like, I felt like
I was in a hole and I'm looking up going, there's
not one person that can get me out of here except
God, the only person. And I literally depended
100 % on him. I was like, I mean, yes, my family
was there to support with a lot of things, but
there were so many times of my life that it's
like, God is the only one, literally the only
one that gets this right now. I don't know why
I knew that, but I knew it, like without a doubt.
I knew it and I knew God knew it. Like it was
that kind of knowing. Yeah, it is. I totally
get that. There are moments when you're like,
I am alone here. Yeah. Yeah. And the only one
that I can count on is God. Yeah, 100%. Cause
there's not, I mean, there was not a single solitary
person that I, I'm like, I can't talk to my mom,
my dad, my, the releases, I'm like, who gets,
who, who, who could fix this? And it was just
such as a situation. And I look at it now looking
back and it was like, that was my God shot to
go, Deb, you're not in control like you think
you are. Let's just sit you in this hole for
a little bit. Let you just flail until you learn
to surrender or get you in a drowning moment.
Mine felt like a hole. It just felt like a really
deep, dark hole and I just kept looking up seeing,
now there's light. I just don't know what to
do with this. So that's surrender space. So it
sounds like that was a big learning experience
for you. Surrender. What other things were you
able to learn that kind of held you in? I learned
to do hard things. I learned to get strong. I
learned that I am a pretty powerful person when
I link myself with God. There was a lot of fear
in the beginning. How am I gonna pay for things?
How am I gonna take care of my kids? What does
my life look like in the future? A lot of unknowns.
A lot of unknowns, yeah. And so it looked like
just taking it one day at a time, crying, falling
apart, getting back up again. I did have this
just sense that I would be taken care of, and
I really held onto that. And not knowing what
that looked like. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's a
deep trust. Yeah, yeah, I'm still learning. I
know, but that's a deep trust. Yeah. That's that's
something that, you know, I struggle sometimes
with. We had a little miracle that's happened
in our family just recently that I never thought
would happen, that Deb was like, I told you,
you know. Anyway, it's just that's beautiful
how that works. Well, OK, so so, Nick, you're
divorced and you just running and gunning. You
know, for a couple years I was in denial of how
bad things were really getting, you know, and
putting Crystal and the kids through just total
chaos. And internally, you know, it's just all
chaos. And I just remember getting to a place,
you know, like it was in January of 2019, and
the kids had just come over. to the house, you
know, and, and they, Crystal had moved out, the
kids were gone, you know, and I'm trying to put
something back together, you know, and I, I'm
just like out of my mind and pass out and Crystal
takes the kids, you know, she comes, she finds
me, she wakes me up and she's like, I'm taking
the kids like we're out of here, you know, and
I knew it was over then, like really, really
over with the kids too. And And that was really
my first experience with surrender, because I
surrendered to the disease. Like I was like,
you know what, I'm done trying to walk this line
of one foot in one world and one foot in another.
Like this thing owns me and I'm tired of fighting
it. So instead let's embrace it and see where
it takes us. At this point, you didn't have a
solution to fight it. No, no, the solution was
like, Quit making poor decisions and just stop.
Yeah. White knuckle it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know,
it didn't matter how hard I tried. I could, I
could go a couple of weeks. That was it, you
know? And, and, uh, so yeah, I, um, surrendered
to the disease and then it was like, you know
what? I am, I hate myself so much for what I've
done to my family that I want to dig a hole so
deep that regardless of if I want to. It's impossible
to come back from and I want to make sure that
like there is no chance that the family can get
back together anything, you know, and so I mean
that was kind of my mindset for almost two years,
you know, and then and I figured that if I dug
that hole so deep, you know, either this thing
was going to kill me or I'd end up in prison
or you know, I would just never have to really
face it and then God shows up there and gives
kind of that bright light experience, pulls back
the curtain a little bit and is like, hey, this
is what it's gonna feel like if you continue
down this road. And that's what happened to you,
right? I mean, you had an experience where you
actually knew you were gonna die. Yeah, I knew
it, I saw it, and I felt it. And that was the
thing. that was a dark dark feeling yeah that
you know the only way to describe it is you know
it was void of light like it yeah and it didn't
matter how much i tried to numb that out after
that experience you know it was about two weeks
maybe not even where i was like you know what
something really bad is about to happen and i
gotta i gotta do something so you reached out
to Some family or yeah, I reached out to family
and I went You know and went to a detox place
for a couple days and then I went to this place
called the other side Academy and I stayed there
Five or six months. Yeah, and and then made it
down to Utah County, right? Okay, so let's push
pause. So so you had been divorced for how long
now at this point? Seven years, okay at this
point No, seven years was by the end of this
last summer, right before we got remarried. This
was 2020. So two years. Okay. You had been divorced
for a couple of years when Nick entered into
the, began to enter into the solution then. Yeah.
Yeah. And, um, you know, it's crazy because my
journey was so guided to AA. You know, it was
guided to go to this other, this other place,
but this, that place was not the long -term solution
for me. And I thought that it was, my family
thought that it was, you know, I was supposed
to stay there for 30 months. And I remember so
vividly getting this overwhelming feeling that
I was supposed to leave. And this is in the middle
of COVID and I literally have nothing to my name
anymore. And so I, Remember going and talking
to the people in charge and this is one of these
places It's like this prison alternative program,
you know And I didn't know what I was getting
myself into when I went there Because everybody
who was there for the most part had been released
from prison to go to this program You know and
I walked in Off the streets like not knowing
how intense this place was gonna be and it was
exactly what I needed Because it got me to where
I could function again, you know, because they
just work you seven days a week you're working
So I'm there and I've got this overwhelming feeling
that I'm supposed to leave. And I go and I talk
to the people there and they're like, man, that's
just your head messing with you. Don't, you know,
listen to that. And, and this Sunday afternoon,
I remember it like so vividly is like four in
the afternoon. And I, it, the feeling is so overwhelming
that I leave and this is, um, once you leave
the property, you're like done with this place.
And so I leave and I'm walking down South temple.
from seventh east up in salt lake and it's almost
like an out of body experience where i'm watching
myself and there's part of me that's like what
in the world are you doing you've got no phone
you have no wallet like you have no way to get
anywhere you know and like you've got nothing
like nobody really wants anything to do with
you and now you're walking down the the road
in downtown salt lake and you know, it was one
of those things where I was like, I've got nowhere
good to go. And so I'm trying to find a phone
to use to try to get my way down to Utah County.
And nobody will let me use a phone because it's
like in the middle of COVID. You know, so I'm
walking and I remember I get to this house where
I knew the people inside, you know, and, and
I remember standing at the bottom of this porch
looking up at the door and I'm like, I know they
got a phone in there. and this voice is like,
you walk in there, you're not walking back out,
you know? And so I kept going and finally walked
from, I walked from Seventh East and South Temple
to the Home Depot that's right next to the freeway
on 2100 South before I found a phone that I could
use, you know? And I called my parents and I'm
like, hey, you know, I left this place, you know,
I got nowhere to go. I've got nowhere good to
go. I got places I can go, but there's nowhere
good, you know? They reluctantly agreed to come
pick me up and, and, uh, you know, I just remember
thinking like, I got nothing going on. You know,
it's a weird place to be in where, um, your negative
momentum has come to a halt, but you don't really
have any positive momentum either. And, you know,
I just, you know, and that there was a series
of things that happened that got me into treatment
center. And then Cause then I, you know, I'd
been sober like six months and, and I couldn't
stay sober, you know, the insanity came back
and I didn't know why I was doing what I was
doing, which then led me to AA, which led me,
you know, I found the big book and once I picked
up the big book, everything changed for me. Yeah.
So Crystal you were probably pretty aware of
some of this or were you completely just totally
blind to everything that was going on in Nick's
life at this point? Well, I was gonna say when
he was at the other side Academy like up till
that point I was like Good riddance right do
not bother us. Yeah, you know you go do your
thing and let us just live our lives So I hadn't,
we hadn't really heard from Nick. I had kind
of heard little bits and pieces that, you know,
he was at the Other Side Academy. And so, yeah,
he'd kind of been out of our lives at this point.
Yeah. Yeah. And your attitude at this point was
good riddance. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha.
Yeah. Let us do our thing. And your kids were
all with you. and they were like, dad's not well.
We're gonna put our life back together and we're
gonna make the best of what we've got now. Right.
And I never talked badly about their dad ever
either. And I think that that was kind of important.
Did they know what was going on with their dad?
They knew. I mean, Jack was younger. He was probably
five, maybe at that point. Livy was 10. So depending,
you know, I would say I would say the least amount
I could and also kind of give them an idea of
what was happening. And usually I would just
say, you know, dad does, he's making choices
that make it hard for us to be around him. He's
struggling with some things, right? He's not
a bad person, but he really is struggling with
some things and it's hard for us to be around
him. In our first interview, Nick, as you began
to talk about how your relationship with Jesus
Christ came about and got established, you read
the Divine Gift of Forgiveness, and that book
really changed the way you saw him and all of
that. But in our first interview, you actually
said that the only thing I can do is turn to
him. The question I have for you today is how
has that phrase deepened or changed as your life
has expanded as a husband, as a father, as a
disciple? I think that there's been like a series
of big kind of turning points where, I mean,
well let me back up here. I did dig a hole so
deep that like I couldn't come back from it on
my own. Right. I mean I, yeah. I accomplished.
You were successful. It's called alcoholism and
drug addiction. Yeah. And it's funny. And just
hang on. And the operative word that you said
there was on my own. Right. Yes. Yeah. There's
none of us that can come back from that on our
own. Well, and it's interesting because, you
know, I was thinking about this on the way over
here, you know, this idea of like, after all
we can do, you know, that scripture that we're
saved by. I can't even remember what it is. We're
saved by grace after all we can do. It's in 2
Nephi. Right, so okay, so with that, for most
of my life, like when I hear that scripture,
what I hear in my mind is I'm saved after all
I can do. So basically I'm my own savior up until
the very end after all I can do, then he makes
up the difference. Where the reality is there's
nothing I can do on my own. and that we do it
together, he and I, the whole thing. He's there
from the very beginning. And so, it's interesting,
as soon as I picked up the big book, I felt like
God was putting his arm around me and he's like,
dude, just quit running. Just let me help you.
Stop. Yeah, and then there was this idea of all
that I can do is turn. I mean, like I'd look
at all of the different things that have led
me up to the point like where we ended up getting
remarried, which seemed, it should have been
an impossibility. Like there is no way that that
should have ever been able to happen, you know?
And so, you know, I look back at, Specifically,
when I was about six months sober, I had this
overwhelming feeling that I needed to develop
a relationship with Christ. I would get quiet
in the mornings and pray and do different things.
And when I would do that, I would see this, it's
really weird, but I would see this big granite
structure. And it was this, you know, really
cool building. And then right by it, there was
an empty field that was like all staked out,
ready to be built on, you know? And I would just
see this like kind of over and over. And it took
me a little bit to kind of figure out, you know,
what I understood it to mean was that that big
granite structure was like the relationship that
I was building with God. The empty field was
the relationship that was ready to be built.
with Christ. And I thought that they were one
and the same. I was like, I don't understand
the difference, you know? And so, so that's when,
you know, I started making the amends to the
church. And then you and I started talking quite
a bit and you put me onto the book, the divine
gift of the forgiveness and I'm watching The
Chosen and I'm going through kind of the... I'd
gone into the... Met with a bishop. I'd swore
I'd never go into a church, but I finally was
like, okay, I can never be at peace until I make
things right here. And so I just had these overwhelming
feelings that there was something so big there,
but it took about... probably about nine months
of really dedicated work for those walls to come
down. I love how you started this. You started
it with the scripture in 2 Nephi 25, 23. It says
we are saved by grace after all we can do, right?
And one of the things that you have done as you've
gone through this whole experience, and so have
you, Crystal, you both have turned completely
to Christ. You've just... turned completely away
from your own power. Crystal, you said it. I
just couldn't do it on my own. There's no way
I could do it. I just needed to rely on him wholly.
Nick, you said it. There's no way I could do
it. I could stay quit for a couple of weeks.
If you were like me, you could quit three or
four or five times a day, but just couldn't stay
stopped. Quit all the time. Exactly, exactly.
But we turned to him, and that turning to him,
has a word, and that word is repent, it's repentance.
Anytime that, when we use that word repentance,
you know, President Nelson really made it evident
and really helped us, I think, to understand
this concept better than we would have been able
to otherwise without his direction for sure.
But when he taught us it in the Greek, the word
repentance comes from the Greek word montaneo,
which means to turn back. or to turn around,
or turn towards. And that whole thing that you
just described is a turning back, or a turning
back to Him, to your Father in heaven, to a relationship
with your Father in heaven through Jesus Christ,
administrated by the Holy Ghost, right? And all
of those things that we talk about. We're really
talking about your repentance. And I'm associating
with Crystal right here, and I'm like, there's
a part of her that had to change. And we use
the atonement of Jesus Christ not just to repent
of our sins, but to find peace in our chaos,
find peace in our mess, find peace. I want to
hear from Crystal on what that looked like in
your world. Because, you know, as Nick is walking
along his path, You have a totally different
path. You're experiencing a lot of different
things. I mean, and this is where I think it's
important with the question you just asked, but
how then did it come back together? Because I
think it's critical for our listeners to hear,
where was Crystal and the kids during all of
this? What did you do to put food on your table?
What did you do to make sure that your kids were
provided for and taken care of? You had, you
know, an ex -husband now that wasn't taking kids
every other weekend or spending time with them,
but you had a whole new world that you were juggling.
Yeah. I approached it. there were moments of
real clarity and moments of real chaos throughout
the whole thing. And I just remember thinking
I will be a different person on the other side
of this. I can either be resentful and angry
and frustrated, or I can be wise. I can have
more depth and I can have more compassion. And
who do I, who do I want to be? Right. And I wanted
to be the second person. So that was kind of
how I approached it. I relied so much on my family.
I like, I could Cry yeah Yeah, you just you need
people and you you realize that when you are
like you're talking about I felt like I was in
that deep hole right like when you're like I
have nobody Nobody that really understands right
and so you realize how much you need People and
my family really did just rally around me and
my kids and I'll be forever grateful I remember
thinking about the atonement too. And I, and
I thought about it a little bit different than
Nick did. I thought like, yeah, how am I going
to pay for my car payment? How am I going to
pay for kids sports? And how am I going to pay
for clothes for school and all that stuff? I,
I was going back to school to, um, because I
was like, I got to figure out how I'm going to
support my family. So I went back to school,
uh, for clinical mental health counseling. And
I took that. took me a long time. But there was
a lesson because I was going to BYU and they
were talking about the atonement and it was,
the way that I approached it was I can put forth
the effort that I have, but I really am going
to need God to step in and support me, like show
me the miracles in my life. Make up the difference,
right? So that was how I approached the atonement.
And it's funny because we're kind of doing similar
things, but in a, we approached it a little bit
different. So I just, and this is where my, I
don't know, this is what I'm still trying to
balance out, honestly, but I would get up and
I would work like crazy. I just was scrappy and
I did anything and everything I could do. I was
decorating Christmas trees. I was cleaning houses.
I was baking for people. I was like anything
I could do. Um, and at the end of the day, I
always, we always had our needs met, right? And,
um, and I just, I just was, I just took God by
the hand and was like, I just need you to be
here with me, help me get through it. I don't
know what the next day looks like, but help me.
So there's this back and forth pull between like,
I can do it. And then moments where I'm like,
I can't do this. And then I back off and let
God help me. So I'm still navigating that quite
frankly, but yeah, that's, that was kind of my
side of it. So then, then you're, you're in your
world. making ends meet, providing for your children.
And now Nick is now in recovery. And when did
you guys start talking again? When did you guys
start connecting again? Or even having any kind
of connection or conversation? Yeah, it was awkward
at first. For sure. For sure. He would go over
to his family's house for mainly holidays, right?
And the kids and I would come. because they the
kids had a really great relationship with their
grandparents and uh so we would stand there side
by side with our arms folded like how's it going
you know like it just was awkward at first but
i don't know do you want to kind of tell how
we yeah um yeah it was kind of awkward but it
you know it was something i remember i was in
treatment and my therapist was like What are
your goals as a father? What are your goals?
Where do you see things? And I was like, I don't
see the path forward of how to have any type
of relationship with my kids outside of holidays
and birthdays. And then diving in, walking this
path of recovery and really... diving into the
men's process and how to make things right, you
know, and, and, uh, and I remember, um, I was
probably, this was about three years ago, this
overwhelming feeling that like you've got, like
there's unfinished business with your family,
you know, and, and like, you've got to try to
put your family back together. And I just remember
thinking like, okay, God, I don't even understand
what that looks like because I don't understand
how to even go about that, you know, and so I
really started taking it into like kind of, you
know, prayer, meditation, writing. I do a lot
of writing in the morning and reading and, and
just doing things, trying to get direction. I
remember the first thought was like, okay, take
all of your effort and put it into your kids,
cut all of the distraction out. So basically
it was like, okay, God, I'm going to give you
all of my spare time in AA and doing service
and trying to help others. I'm going to cut out
all the social, I'm going to cut out all the
noise. And so anytime I'm not with my family,
this is what I'm going to do. And you just, you
open the doors and I'll walk through them. But
I don't even know how to go about this. And so
the first... thought was like, okay, give, give
your kids all your time and effort, you know,
and kids were playing sports, you know, and I
was seeing them like once a week for, I don't
know, a couple hours or something. And then I
had this, you know, this thought of like, act
as if you're married. And I was like, I don't
even understand what that means. You know, I
remember writing it out and looking at it. I
was like, that doesn't even make sense to me,
but it was be home when they're home, be available.
Like even though you're you're at in a different
city, you know, align your life with theirs.
So I started doing this and it's crazy what happened
after, you know, like a month or two of doing
this, kids were playing sports and different
things. And all of a sudden, like I'm with them
like four days a week, you know, and Crystal
had called me and she was like, I don't know
how we're going to do this. Like I've got my
work schedules changed. And, and so Thankfully,
I've got a job, you know, that is really, you
know, the people I work with are in recovery
and they were like, you can do what you got to
do with your family. And so all of a sudden I'm
driving from Springville up to South Jordan,
you know, two, three times a week to pick the
kids up from school or wherever, take them to
practice, wait while they're at practice, bring
them home, stop, get food, you know, and, and
then on the weekends we're starting to go and
like, do things that are fun, like float the
river and go paddle boarding and just looking
for different ways to connect. And about this
time, Crystal started to come with us on some
of these activities, which was really interesting,
because I just had this overwhelming feeling
of like, don't... Talk to her about any of these
things just show up, you know show up the way
that regardless of whatever happens like show
up the way that that you feel you need to show
up for your family and and then I remember it
was the 4th of July a couple years ago on the
4th of July. She called me up and she was like,
hey, I feel like I am Like I keep trying to go
out on dates, but every time I go to like reply
to somebody get this overwhelming feeling that
like maybe you and I should get back together,
you know, and I just remember like my jaw like
hitting the floor of like I Can't believe like
this God stuff is like really working, you know
Because I'm following all of these ideas that
to me feel a little crazy and I talked to my
friends and different people and they're like
Yeah, good luck buddy. Like I don't think she's
ever gonna get back together with you You know,
it was a couple years of of her kind of coming
close and then pulling away and being like, whoa,
you know, and just kind of being able to, to
walk through those things and still just show
up authentically of what I feel the right way
I want to show up, you know, regardless of any
outcomes. Yeah. What was going through your mind,
Crystal? I mean, when all of this was happening
and all of a sudden he starts showing up and
all of a sudden you're doing fun things, you're
like, wait, I don't want to be left out. Where
are you at with all of this? Yeah, he he just
started showing up differently. Right. And I
think it was that he never pressured me for any.
He just showed up when I needed him. It was yes,
no matter how inconvenient it was. Right. And
that meant a lot to me as a, you know, like at
this time, the kids and I were We were living
my parents have a house that they are they live
at sometimes, but they were in st George So it's
just me and the kids and in the house And so
I'm working full -time trying to manage everything
and it was in your area So I didn't know a lot
of the people it was another moment where I was
like Heavenly father you need some help like
how am I gonna do this? And I remember I think
I just talked to Nick about and he's like I'll
be there What do you need like you need to me
to pick up the kids from school? I'm there you
need him to get to practice. I'm there and I
just I just remember just being so grateful and
I was like, this is a different person. Who is
this person? You know? And then yeah, they were
doing fun things and I was like, I want to go
float the river. Heck yeah. Of course I want
to go. They're having fun with him and I want
to have fun too. Right. And so then we would
be together and I was like, everybody's laughing
and having fun. And I, I know it was, it was
a transition for the kids to kind of get used
to it all. But in those moments when we're all
together and enjoying the experience and Nick's
really big about like, let's have an experience.
I can't do much, but like, what can we do to
create an experience with a family? And it just
was like, this is it. This is what I want. This
is what I've always wanted, you know? Did you
ever think you would say those words? When I
said it the first, I was like, I'm like coughing
it out. It took me a while to say it. And then
as soon as I did, I was like, oh. Like, hold
on, I didn't mean like that, you know. Anyway.
Look, Crystal, there was a lot of betrayal on
a lot of levels. Right. Right. How did forgiveness
come for you? Okay, so this is interesting because...
So, Nick has another daughter that came into
the picture, right? And she's... She's five years
old now. She's just the cutest. And I remember
Nick, I think part of your amends was coming
and telling the kids and I about your daughter.
I remember that day. Do you? Yeah. I remember
thinking, well good, this is yours too. worry
about, right? Good luck. This will be good for
you. Because we weren't really dating at that
point. But the closer we got and the more I thought
about that, as I would say my prayers at night,
I would pray for my family and praying for Nick
was a little hard at times, right? And so there
were moments when something would catch within
me. but I'm like, I want to be able to pray for
him. I want to be able to pray for him and really
be honest about, bless him, right? And I had
that same thing with Alex. Alex is the five year
old. Alex is the five year old, yep. And I remember
just praying for her and it was harder at first,
but there was a moment where I prayed over my
whole family and there was just this, Peace right
and I really just wish All the best for Nick
and for Alex and for my kids and everybody right
that I didn't get that catch in my stomach anymore
and so I think it just was a it was a process
it was an intentional process and again, I think
it's a relationship with God where it's like
God I need you to help me here. I need you to
to just let me love in the way that I want to
be able to love here, right? Again, I could cry
because it's hard when you see yourself as a
loving kind person, but something catches in
you and you're like, I don't like this, you know?
And then to be able to overcome that, move through
that and get to a place where you actually can
feel that peace come in. I mean, that's a gift.
And so the forgiveness was a process and it's
easier. when Nick shows up and he shows up like
nobody I've ever seen. And I see him and his
relationship with God. It's really a cool thing
to see. I learn a lot from him. So that's kind
of my process. What a tender, sweet miracle that
you were able to experience through that. It
was definitely a miracle. Yeah, I mean literally.
And sweet, yeah. So sweet, so sweet. Crystal,
what would you tell a wife or a husband who's
holding on to hope but feels like they're all
alone? Oh gosh, surrender. Quit swimming? Quit
swimming, yes. And you know what? I know that
there are moments when you surrender and you're
praying and you feel like the answers don't come.
Surrender again, right? Just take that next step
and then the next step. and things start to fall
into place, but there's so much about just surrendering
and trusting. God is definitely gonna guide you,
even if it feels painful sometimes. And if we
allow him, like Isaiah tells us, he'll turn,
make beauty for ashes, and he thinks that's what
he's done with you guys. Yes. Nick, what would
you tell someone who thinks it's too late, they've
gone too far, there's too much damage? That's
the perfect place to start. You know, once you've
got the fight beat out of you, that's where God
does his best work. That's exactly right. I love
that you're grinning ear to ear with that answer.
Cause we all, I think we all have felt that to
a certain degree and it's like, you are 100 %
accurate. Me being a control freak, it's like,
I just remember, you know, that space of, oh,
I have just got to let go. and give up the fight.
So I love that answer. You know what was so hard
for me about letting go though, is when I let
go, then I feel like that I can't control the
outcome. I wanna control the outcome. Of course
you do. I want the outcome to look a certain
way, and if I turn it over to God, even though
I know God's gonna have a better outcome than
I'll ever have, the fact that I don't know what
that outcome is freaks me out. Until you have
an experience with God. Even after I've had plenty
of those experiences and I still sometimes have
that. And he takes you through those places.
I feel like, because I remember those moments
that I was like, okay, this is bigger than me.
I will never see this again. I will never do
that again or whatever. And then God somehow
just abundantly blesses you and transforms your
life and you're like, okay, I did not see that
coming at all. I couldn't have orchestrated that
myself. I've had a pretty cool purview of this
little conjoining again here. Miracle. It's so
cool. I just love it so much. I appreciate you
guys being willing to come and be with us tonight
again and do this. I just wanna know from each
one of you, and I'll ask you first, Crystal,
and then you, Nick, but when you look back on
your journey, when you've gone through this darkness,
through surrender like you've talked about, all
up into this point, what do you guys want others
to know about Jesus Christ? This is such a big
question because it's so personal for everybody
But I would just I would want people to know
that they're not alone That they're not alone
How about you Nick? Jesus Likes to get his hands
dirty I felt him in the in places where I would
never think that that's where he would be hanging
out, you know, and he likes to he likes to get
down in the dirt with people, you know and I
think that it all begins with some honesty, you
know, and especially the people who are struggling.
Man, just get honest, get honest out loud, you
know, get angry, say whatever you got to say,
but, but, you know, start the conversation with
him. You know, that opens the door. I love that.
One of my favorite scriptures, Matthew 11, 28,
come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest. And I think
that's what he's done. It does require us to
come unto him. Again, that's our repentance process.
The other day in sacrament meeting, we were singing
the hymn, I Stand All Amazed, and you know the
second verse where it says, I marvel that he
would descend from his throne divine to rescue
a soul so rebellious. proud as mine and and you
know Nick and I I think you know it's easy to
wear that label proud and rebellious because
of the alcoholism and the and the other things
but even for all of us you know whether it's
control whether it's a situation where we're
just feeling like we're in despair or whatever
but we all have a deep deep dependence on Jesus
Christ and what he's done for us and and I'm
grateful to know that today you know as you were
talking about this I thought about Christ in
Gethsemane and how he he fell below all things
and I just think of the pain that I went through
and intensified by the pain that all of us have
experienced like every single human that has
been or that will be and that he knows what that
feels like he came here to suffer that, to feel
it, to know it, and to get dirty with it for
the simple facts so he could sucker us in our
pain, in our afflictions, in our addictions,
in our dirt, in our holes, in our tornadoes,
whatever it is that we have. And I am so grateful
today to know that. And it makes me see things
very differently when I see the world in chaos
and I see people going into churches and murdering
people, and I think he suffered below that. He
suffered, he knows what that murderer felt like,
he knew what those victims felt like, he knows
it all. And I love what you said, you're not
alone. No matter what side of the pendulum you're
on, whether you're the perpetrator or the victim,
he suffered it all, he knows it all. He came
here and felt all of that. That is just so impactful
for me to just remember that. And on Sundays
when we go and partake of the sacrament and think
about that bruised, broken and torn bread and
ingest that inside of me, it's like, please let
me feel this. Please let me drink this and partake
of the atonement of Jesus Christ because it's
real. It's so real. And that's when we feel what
Crystal talked about in the very beginning when
I just had to rely on him for everything. Because
that everything comes to us by way of the Holy
Ghost whether that's through other people or
not. It's by way of the Holy Ghost and I'm grateful
to know that too. As we just kind of wrap things
up today, we just want to say that wherever you
are, however you're feeling, you're welcome here.
Jesus isn't just waiting for you to clean everything
up before you come to him. He meets us in the
middle of our dirt, our mess. He gets down and
dirty. That's where his grace shines the brightest.
So come as you are, broken, hopeful, torn, questioning,
searching. Just like Crystal said, you are not
alone. Don't forget to send us your questions,
your ideas, whatever it is. He redeems us at
gmail .com. We love to get those. We try to respond
to every one of them. In fact, we do. And if
this episode touched your heart like it did mine,
we hope that you'll share it with someone you
love, a family. a friend, anyone who could use
a little bit more hope right now. Next week we're
gonna continue to talk about how the Savior doesn't
just redeem us, He heals us, He lifts us, He
transforms us, He does it in our everyday lives.
Thanks for being with us, Crystal and Nick and
all of our listeners. And remember, there's always
hope through Him because you have been redeemed
through His blood. Thanks for being with us,
everybody. We'll see you next time.