Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another
episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. I'm Scott
Durfey and I'm joined as always by the stunning
and beautiful What Debra Durfey I just can't
wait to hear all the words all the adjectives
that you use to describe my goal is to have something
different every time Well, that's very kind of
you. Thank you. And hello friends. It's not I'm
being sincere. You're stunning. You're beautiful
So you're very kind. Well, hello to you too,
Deborah. How's your how's your week? It's been
great. Yeah, actually you enjoying this nice
weather. We've been having here along the Wasatch
Front. It's okay I love the colors. I love all
of the colors. I love the middle of the day.
But I will tell you this, this morning when I
got up to go to the gym it was 28 degrees. I
am not loving that at all. But you know, this
afternoon the sun came out and I got to see all
the colors and things are still a little green
and orange and red and yellow and I love the
colors. And I love that we get a little bit of
warmth in the afternoon. Do you still love living
in an area where we have four seasons? Yes, but
I think winter hogs them all, hogs all the seasons.
Yeah, winter does show up in all of them. I don't
think we get enough of the summer, spring, and
fall. I wish we would have three solid good months
of fall. So if you're in a climate that you get
those three solid months of fall, let me know
where you're at. We're going to relocate. News
to me, but that's okay. That's great. As long
as it's Hawaii or someplace cool like that Well,
you need snow you bought your ski pass Yeah,
I'm super excited about that. You know, that
is the price we pay we we here along the Wasatch
Front I don't know why we're wasting everybody's
time with this conversation, but here along the
Wasatch Front We do have the Four Seasons and
you know, one of the prices we pay for those
beautiful summers is the winter but that those
hard winters are long a ski dark cold. You're
talking over me now. Sorry, but it's true. They
are a skiers dream. So it's true. I'm dreaming
of a very white winter. I was going to say Christmas,
but I need it to be much more than Christmas.
Whatever. Last week, we talked about. the atonement,
obviously. You know, what was really cool is
we talked a little bit about what we talked about
on the podcast in Institute. Not a lot. I mean,
we've kind of shifted gears a little bit there.
But, you know, we had just a great experience
too in Institute as we visited the The events
of Christ's Atonement over the last couple of
weeks, I'm looking forward there to moving into
faith and how we access His blessings through
faith, through faith in His name, faith unto
repentance, and all those things that we've talked
about already on this podcast this season. But
I'm excited about that too. Yeah, October's a
big month for us. We have some milestones that
we both... kind of hit in October. And last week
we talked about Grammy Day and what that really
meant to me and my story, my experiences and
how God's grace had shown up in my life. This
week I thought would shift the focus to you,
Scott. You just celebrated 27 years of sobriety
on October 26th. And that's a pretty sacred milestone.
You kind of had a lot of feels this Last weekend.
They're coming up again. Yeah Let's talk about
that journey And especially, you know since you
brought it up about how Christ's atonement has
been the heartbeat of your recovery Yeah, it
really has Has become that yeah, it was in the
very beginning It was interesting that I didn't
have the ability to recognize that that's what
it was in the very beginning Which is really
interesting to me I might speak to that a little
bit, you know when Anytime that we receive any
blessing, we know that it comes as a direct gift
or a gift that we've aligned with sometimes or
what have you. Last week, you talked a lot about
receiving the gift, you know. And when I first
got sober, I didn't realize it, and I think this
is true for all of us that... That when good
things happen in our lives those who are Heavenly
Father blessing us and giving us the things to
compensate us and to give us the strength and
the power and the different things that we need
in order to you know, really be able to align
with his blessings for us and You know, I was
doing that without realizing I was doing that
in the beginning I I can relate to that. Yeah.
Yeah because you you know, you're doing things
and then later you look back and you're like,
Oh, that was the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oh,
that was the spirit leading me and guiding me.
Oh, I was inspired. The Holy Ghost was my comforter
during that time. I love that. Yeah, I love that.
Yeah. So when you think about these, the last
27 years, what, what are the emotions that surface?
Oh, boy. Yeah. Right. All of them. Right, you
know when I think back we've been we've been
doing this podcast now. This is I think fourth
year You know, and this is really the first time
that we've kind of dove in to any part of my
story and you know and I you kind of warned me
we were gonna do that today and I've been kind
of thinking a little bit about this and and You
know when you say what are the emotions? What
are the feelings that the first one? that I have
to go to is gratitude, absolute gratitude. You
posted that on social media, which I thought
was really cool, too. Yeah, I did. Me, too. Yeah.
Yeah, just absolute gratitude, because, you know,
there's there's just no way I deserve it. There's
just no way I deserve. the blessings and the
recovery and all the blessings. There's been
a lot of garbage that's come with it too, but
there's just no way I deserve it. But the gratitude
that comes because knowing that even though I
don't, he'll still give me what I need by way
of blessing so that I can have supreme happiness
and joy in this life. I mean, that's really what
he wants for me to have and have peace among
that or in that. So you go to gratitude today,
27 years, one day at a time. But how has your
understanding of that recovery changed with time?
Like when you very first entered those rooms
of recovery, I happened to meet you in the first
30 days of your sobriety. And you were not 100
% full of gratitude in that moment. From my observation.
But you know what, from your observation, I want
you to share kind of where you were at. Well,
I had a lot of gratitude then, too. It's just
different, you know. Well, one thing I do want
to say, you know, you do recovery one day at
a time. But we do life and, you know, our spiritual
practice one day at a time. We never get it perfected.
Right. You know? Yeah. So my question for you
is, how was your understanding? Recovery changed
different today from the day you walked into
the rooms of recovery the the The best way for
me to explain that Deb is to talk about the first
three steps You know in alcoholics anonymous
step number one is came no Admitted admitted
that I was powerless over alcohol and that my
life had become unmanageable The second step
is came to believe that a power greater than
myself could restore me to sanity. And then the
third step is I make a decision to turn my will
and my life over to the care of God as I understand
him. When I first came into recovery, that second
part of the third step tripped me up. So, you
know, let's just revisit it. The third step is
made a decision to turn my will and my life over
to the care of God. That's the first part. Okay,
there's actually three parts. There's the decision,
what's that decision about? And then, turn my
will and my life over to the care of God as I
understand Him. That was the catcher for me,
as I understand Him. I didn't understand God
when I first got here the way that I feel like
I understand Him today. That my relationship
with deity, when I first came into the rooms
of recovery, My relationship with Deity was completely
different than it is today. It was definitely
a checkbox relationship. It was, you do this
and you can have that kind of relationship, right?
I mean, we're taught in D &C 8210, I'm Lord and
Bound when you do what I say, but when you don't
do what I say, you have no promise. And I knew
I had no promise because I just couldn't live
the law. the way that I thought the law should
be lived, the way that I, you know, I keep apologizing
for everybody who taught me this, but I was taught
that. We were literally taught to worship the
law, you know, to make sure you get the Eagle
Scout, to make sure you get your duty to God
award, to make sure you check every box and you
go on your mission. We don't talk, we didn't
talk enough and I didn't hear it at least about
Having a relationship when when things are terrible
and rotten and no good Scott go go take it to
your heavenly father You know and have that experience
with him have that relationship I was just reading
in and I don't want to compare myself down with
the younger, but I was just reading and the Book
of Mormon the other day his experience and how
he cried out and how He just knew that you know
he had the pains of a damned soul. I had the
pains of a damned soul as well And I knew that
I had gone too far. I just knew I had because
I, you know, all this checkbox experience, et
cetera, for me, all that was doing was creating
a visual of Scott Durfee in my mind, at least.
And that's the way I thought I saw everybody
else saw me. It was hollow. It was unfulfilling.
It felt like a lie because it was a lie, right?
And, Deb, I just had to keep changing the way
I felt. And, you know, your question is, well,
how do you see your recovery different today
than it was then? I changed the way I feel today
through the administrator of Christ's Atonement,
through the Holy Ghost. And maybe that's perhaps
the biggest way. that it has, and I don't want
to even use the word changed, you know, because,
but it's evolved. It's grown. Well, repentance
is change. Right. So maybe it has changed. Yeah,
that's true through him. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
So, I mean, taking us back in time to the beginning,
what was the most or what was the moment when
you knew you couldn't do this alone? Yeah. I
don't like what at what point did you say enough's
enough? This is my end. I cannot do this anymore.
You know what, it may be a lot of our listeners
will be able to relate to this, those who have
similar experience, and it doesn't necessarily
have to be with the same substances, by the way.
But Deb, I don't, I had several of those moments.
I really did. I had, I remember having moments
when I first came home off my mission and had
drank again. you know, and feeling like, oh,
this is rock bottom for me, you know, and then
for whatever reason it's not, then going through
divorces and going through legal issues, going
through drug addictions and going through, you
know, all kinds of stuff. There were so many,
there were so many, I don't know how to call
them, but so many rock bottoms along the way.
You know, it's really, it's really interesting
to me that when it all came down, I mean, It
was October 25th, 1998. I was drinking to kill
myself. I had, you know, it sounds silly to people.
You don't kill yourself that way. Well, I know
a couple of people who have and you're making
an attempt. And I don't know if I really was
or if I was. I don't know. I was just so desperate
to change something in the way I felt. And I
remember As I was growing up, I always felt so
guilty about asking Heavenly Father for help
if I was in a bad way. I felt like I needed to
not be under the influence anymore, or I needed
to be temple -worthy almost again in order for
me to reach out to him and get any kind of response
from him, which is totally jacked up. And not
true. That's what that means. This is drug addict
and alcoholic language tonight. But the thing
that I have to remember is that last day, October
25th, 1998, when I was making that attempt, I
was literally crying out at the same time, please
help me, just please. Please help me. I was so
desperate and had received what we call in AA
the gift of desperation. I was just so desperate.
In my life, I wasn't facing any kind of impending
doom around legal stuff. I had already gone through
another divorce. I had everything in my life.
I was living in a rent delinquent apartment.
I had already done bankruptcy, financial bankruptcy.
I had been spiritually bankrupt forever. And
I'm laying there, and at this point in my recovery,
I'm no longer going to sleep. I'm passing out,
and I'm no longer waking up. I'm coming to, right?
Well, I came to the next morning to a phone call,
and God answered my prayers. It was a phone call
from somebody who I love, a priesthood leader.
All my life, I had tried to be aligned with the
gospel of Jesus Christ, because I never doubted
it. I always knew it was true. But I got that
phone call from him, and that was God reaching
down. And I love, again, reading about Alma.
Who was that person? You don't need to tell me
the name, but what was his role? He was the stake
president of mine at the time. And I honestly
can relate when, again, as I was reading in the
Book of Mormon the other day where Alma says,
I was snatched. I literally felt on that day
that I was snatched. Like he just. He knew you
know he knew what was going on and Through other
people who he knew I loved and respected he just
reached down and snatched me and that was the
beginning You know that wasn't the end nothing
got better that day. That's not true a whole
bunch got better that day But I share that experience
because I think it's tender and sweet your meet
when you met with the state president so he called
me that sunday morning october 25th 1998 i had
been drinking all through the night i had uh
at this point i had to drink in the morning just
to keep from throwing up and and a bunch of other
stuff it was no longer a choice yeah i i i had
so far gone the choice to drink or drug or anything
like that. And I was just desperate. And I got
this phone call. And he's like, What's going
on with you? And I said, What are you talking
about? He says, I've been worried about you tonight.
And I says, I can't quit drinking, man. And he
says, Anyway, we talked and ended up meeting
later that day, and he gave me the best news
I ever heard. He says, God, I think you might
be an alcoholic. You know, and the cool thing
about that, Deb, was like, nobody has that as
a goal. I hope somebody who I trust and know
and will believe will someday tell me that I'm
an alcoholic. Nobody has that desire. I mean,
that was just weird, right? But when I heard
that, I felt more relief and more hope than maybe
I had felt up until that point in my entire life.
Again, I was being snatched. It was probably
a diagnosis that it was like, here it is. Yeah.
And when that diagnosis comes, maybe that's where
the solution that's like, oh, OK. Maybe there
was yeah, you know and I started attending alcoholics
non anonymous right away and I read in the doctor's
opinion in the big book of alcoholics anonymous
that I suffer from a malady of Spirit and body
where I have this craving of alcohol, but I I
have a spiritual Dismiss alignment as well. And
so I'll just all kinds of hope Sprung from that
day. I had to walk through and wade through a
lot of garbage and have done over the last 27
years. And I've waded through stuff recently,
you know, as a direct result of the wake that
we as alcoholics and addicts sometimes leave
behind us. But it's kind of important. Yeah.
You know, I think it's interesting because I
met you one month into your recovery and we've
both said this, but You have said recovery and
repentance follow the same spiritual pattern.
How has the 12 steps helped you understand the
atonement more deeply? I've always called it
the atonement for dummies because I really did
not understand the atonement until I stepped
into those rooms of recovery and then I had a
tangible experience. Tell me about how it was
for you. The 12 steps or the atonement for dummies.
I think we're all dummies I think we all I think
we all are and that's just it. You know when
I I Don't know how to really articulate this
sweetheart when I when when I first When I first
got sober and were was working through an alignment
Right? I was just trying to align my will with
the care of God as I understood Him. That's literally
from the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I
was literally just trying to understand His will
for me and pray for the power to carry it out.
Right? That's step 11. Well, and also, did you
have to redefine who your God was? Because earlier
you just mentioned that. Yeah, that's a really
good point. Yeah. And that's really the key.
When I have this relationship, this checkbox,
this transactional, that's probably the best
way to put it, right? This transactional relationship
with God, that left me hollow. There was never
at any time did I feel like I was being buoyed
up by Him. As I was doing that, but when I finally
was able to get raw and when I was finally able
to understand that He's not mad at me that he
he wasn't hiding around the corner at setting
speed traps for me I've described it that way
a lot, you know, but but he but that he loves
me, that his desire was for me to have all the
joy and the peace that he died for in the garden
and on the cross. When I began to understand
that, it became a lot easier. I felt like instead
of earning my way back, I was being drawn back
to him. You know, I didn't feel like I was checking
boxes anymore and and and earning things earning
merit badges towards my celestial eagle scout
or you know, whatever like that I I felt like
I was just making now progress in a relationship
and this relationship began to give me a lot
of peace and all of a sudden I don't feel like
I need to change the way I feel anymore with
drugs or alcohol or any other inappropriate behaviors,
etc. And I think also You know there's some one
-liners that AA is always known for and I remember
hearing one is you're only as sick as your secrets
and you know I realized that you were living
your own life but and doing your thing but you
know as soon as I was able to get you know be
be true to thine own self be true on the AA chip.
And it's like, you know, I think so many times
we were just trying not to get caught. And I,
you know, I have pictures to go with those words
because of how I interpreted how my, the God
that I was raised believing, you know, was mad
at me or making black marks in heaven, certain
things that I had done. So where, Like what what
is grace taught you about who the Savior really
is and where have you seen the Savior's mercy
show up? Most clearly in your recovery. Yeah,
that's a great great question, you know Where
the Savior's grace has showed up for me in my
recovery the most is Helping me realize that
this is not something that I need to accomplish
I don't there's there comes a moment in a any
anybody that recovers from alcohol drugs any
other type of addiction like that there comes
a point where Surrender is how we win and when
we realize that it's just so It's just so counterintuitive
to most people, you know in order for me to really
get this thing, I have to surrender, I have to
give up. And so now it's no longer up to me,
right? And I've been told by so many people,
so many loving and well -intended people, you
know, if you just pray more fervently, if you
just try a little harder, if you feel like drinking,
call me, you know, those kinds of things. That's
not the deal. You know, it's understanding my
relationship with him and really turning everything
to him, surrendering it all, everything to him.
That's so hard. I'm laughing because I can. That
is so hard. And I still that's one of the things
I really struggle with today. I think is I think
we all do. I think it's a direct result of the
fall of Adam and Eve. And one of the things that
through Christ's moment that we should continually
strive to overcome. And and I do. But it's hard.
So even after 27 years, I mean, anybody that
sat in a room and you came in and you said, I've
got 27 years sober, they'd be like, now that
guy's got it figured out. Yeah. But you still
talk about one day at a time. What does that
look like today? And I think you just kind of
touched on it spiritually and practically. I
mean, like, because now you're in that that space
of a spiritual relationship, a connection. But
what does that I mean when you say one day at
a time? What does that look like now? Yeah, it
looks different than it used to that's a great
question You know one day at a time it used to
look like just don't pick up one day at a time
Yeah, just don't pick up a drink or a drug one
day at a time And I remember you know the old
-timers. It's hard to imagine that I'm one of
them now, but I remember the old -timers My friends,
La La and Big Al and others who have passed,
you know, that means so much to me that would
say, Scott, do you think you could just not drink
today? Do you think you could just do it today?
And some days I'd say, no, I don't think I can.
And they'd say, it's okay. You know, just ask
God to direct you. Just ask God to help you.
Just turn it to Him. Ask Him that He will remove
it. And you know what, Deb? From the very first
day that I stepped in, October 26, 1998 was a
Monday night. And it was rainy, and it was at
the old Lano Club across from Geneva still, back
when it was still around 27 years ago. And I'll
never forget. I don't remember any words that
were said there. I honestly don't. You know,
except for the catchphrases, the things that
we say, the mantras, et cetera, that I recognize
now. But I'll never forget how I felt. You know,
there was something tangible when I walked into
that. And back then, we could smoke. AA meetings
and I don't think they were actually smoking
inside the room but this they were out on the
porch smoking and the smoke was billowing in
and there was coffee being poured and there was
bad language being used and there was homelessness
there and there was infidelity there and there
were felons there and there were tattoos there
and there were people who had just gotten out
of prison there and I felt and attorneys and
public speakers and you know and the rest of
us too and doctors and but that the point is
is it's like I Don't think that it looked like
I thought it should look because I never felt
spirit Stronger and I had been on a mission and
I and I had a great mission, you know But I never
felt the spirit of hope stronger than I felt
in that room that night and and the difference
was is I was really coming to know and understand
Him turn it over to the care of God as I understand
him that understanding Understanding of him has
been has just really changed for me I've had
the sacred opportunity to watch you in that journey.
And it has been, I've seen you struggle through
things and I've seen you 12 step things and I've
seen you work through a lot and you're a wonderful
example to so many that you have no idea. the
lives that you've impacted and the lives that
you've changed just by living your life and then
also by sponsoring and helping others. So how
do you keep your spiritual condition strong day
to day? Yeah, this is a great question and this
is a really important thing for every single
one of us regardless of our station in life or
our spiritual attunement or what have you. This
is so important because regardless of who we
are, we're all His right our identity my identity
is not my alcoholism My identity is not my addiction.
My identity is not all the messed up stuff that
I did all the legal problem That's not my identity.
My identity is as i'm a son of god Who loves
me? And he knows me and he knows my heart and
he knows my weakness and he knows that I have
a desire to come unto him and And in the big
book we read that he doesn't require too much
of those who seek him. The big book about alcoholic
synonymous, I had to learn that there. All I
have to do is seek him, I'll find him, he'll
meet me, he comes to me. And that's repentance,
right? And that's the gospel of Jesus Christ
and that's literally. the way that I maintain,
you know, maintenance of a spiritual program.
In the Big Book of Alcoholics, none of us, it
tells us that all we really have is a daily reprieve.
All we get is a daily reprieve, but it's based
on our spiritual condition. Well, what we've
been talking about over the last several seasons
and, you know, through this season and Institute
and the other places that we have opportunity
to testify and witness. The things that we've
been talking about our Christ's atonement are
administrated and administered to us through
the Holy Ghost and When I have the Holy Ghost
in my life, I can have recovery when I have the
Holy Ghost in my life I can know that I'm being
forgiven of my sins when I have the Holy Ghost
in my life I know that I'm aligned or being better
aligned with my Heavenly Father's will for me
And and that doesn't have to be different in
AA or any other recovery program. That can and
should be the same because it is literally me
working my first three steps. I can't. I'm powerless
over alcohol. My life became unmanageable. I
can't. He can. I came to believe that a power
greater than myself could restore me to sanity.
That's him. Who? Jesus Christ, my Redeemer. Right?
But I have to take action and that action looks
like turning my will in my life over the care
of God as I Understand him now and will continue
to grow in that understanding as my relationship
covenant relationship grows with it Well, and
I think it's important to remember in that third
step when it said half when you have a desire
I Think desire is a big key right there to you
know, you've got to get to that point that I've
got to get to that point where I'm going to let
him. Because I have a tendency, and I've shared
this before, to sit in that driver's seat and
clench onto that steering wheel. But until I
have that desire to let go. let him drive and
let him be in charge of the mess that's in my
life in my life or in front of me or in my kids
lives or whatever and remember that they're all
sons and daughters of him too and he's in charge
and he loves them all perfectly too. That's impressive
that you remember that. So how has your dependence
on the Savior deepened over the years and in
what ways? Yeah, I want for my dependence on
the Savior, my intentional dependence on the
Savior. I recognize that I have complete dependence
on the Savior even for my very breath as we read
about from King Benjamin, right? Yeah, but how
easy is that? I know, I know. So that's why I
differentiate it with my intentional Right. Experience
with a savior, etc. So my goal, my desire is
that it will continue to deepen daily. That honestly,
that really is my goal, you know, to have even
a deeper relationship. And I know that it's really
difficult. I know that to even quantify that
would be a arduous task at best. But but but
it nonetheless is a I think a a worthy endeavor
is to try to deepen my relationship with him
every day. And the way I do that, I just talked
about it. I try to have the Spirit in my life.
I remember the promises that I made, and I remember
the promises that He made to me. You know, my
promise that I will always remember Him, that
I'll keep His commandments to the best of my
ability. I'll align with Him in all ways that
I possibly can. I'll try to serve the One. I'll
try to endure to the end. I'll do all of that,
and all I get back is that His Spirit will always
be with me. And I need nothing more than that.
And so that's how and and that's how I think
that until that that day becomes perfect You
know that perfect day when he comes again And
and when we're all taking out taken up and you
know this mortal sojourn is completed I think
until then that this will be my quest to Continually
have that relationship because Deb if I don't
you know what happens it comes back It comes
back all the yuck comes back for me I haven't
intentionally experimented with it but through
laziness and through my own fallenness over the
years there have been periods of time when my
My my recovery and my relationship with Heavenly
Father and his son through the Holy Ghost have
been lacking And I hope that I will never be
able to say that for the future, but I can't
guarantee that I can just hope that one day at
a time I can continue to see it the way I see
it and it's kind of important to me that I do.
That takes me to my next question because I've
watched you, I've watched this journey for nearly
three decades. And from your perspective, how
has the Lord's healing extended beyond you, like
into our marriage and our family and even into
church and friends and associates that you associate
with? Even into work. I mean, that's another,
that's a lot of questions. I mean, because I've
given you a lot to think about. How I mean how
has the Lord healing? How has the Lord's healing?
extended beyond just you I I Believe that's how
the Lord all the Lord's healing works. I believe
that when he heals Many are healed or potentially
can be right. I know that I have a Have kids
right now in recovery who are going through the
steps four of them four of our kids are in recovery
and have sponsors and are going through the steps
and and I know that what I know what they're
working the steps is doing for this dad You know,
so maybe there's that maybe there's a little
hope maybe that breathes a little less worry
and to parents and others who love you and Etc,
but then there's there. There's the other thing
though to Deb and it's like when I first got
sober Didn't need somebody telling me how to
get sober. I needed somebody to show me how they
got sober. Yeah and That's how this thing works,
you know back in the 30s 1930s when Bill Wilson
and dr. Bob Put this that put the alcoholics
anonymous together. What a story What what a
divine intervention and the direction of the
spirit and so much just absolutely undeniable
direction from from Heavenly Father. But you
know, that's that's how they did this. They had
talked to Dr. Silkworth, they had talked to other
prominent psychologists, et cetera, from all
over the world, very prominent ones, who were
just baffled about this thing, alcoholism. But
then they found, and they were directed by Heavenly
Father to do it, they found that the only way
that it would work is if they helped each other.
Service. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't telling them
what to do, it was showing them what we could
do together. Telling them what worked for you
and what, yeah. Experience, strength and hope.
Yeah, the guys that sponsored me stayed sober
by sponsoring me. I stay sober today by helping
others to achieve sobriety. You know, and that's
our primary purpose in AA is to just help others
and ourselves to achieve sobriety. And I think
this goes beyond. like just recovery because
I've seen you in the workplace. You belong to
a group at work. Yeah. You want to tell us a
little bit about that and how that came about?
Because I think that's pretty awesome too. I
live pretty transparent. with my addiction and
stuff. If you have friends that are recovering
alcoholics and addicts and they don't, don't
criticize them for that. It's a different path
for each of us. My path is one of transparency.
If you know me, if you meet me, if we have any
time together, pretty soon you're gonna know
that I'm a recovering alcoholic and what that
means to me. It's just how it is. And that you
do a podcast about... The Atonement of Jesus
Christ. That comes out of your mouth just as
often as I'm a recovering alcoholic. Because
I want to testify of the hope that ... I could
care less about promoting this podcast. I care
deeply about promoting the hope that comes from
Jesus Christ and Him crucified. So tell us about
your work. So I'm having a conversation with
a person at work and I work for a very large
company. And it's quite a liberal company in
many respects. But anyway, this lady was telling
me that they had gotten permission to hold a
group of Christians that would meet on every,
I think the paces, every three weeks. And I was
invited. To become a part of this, you know,
she knows that we teach Institute at BYU. She
knows that we're Members of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter -day Saints and you know and
all of that and but I was invited because You
know, I I was I don't remember how it got brought
up But it got brought up my recovery got brought
up and and she says how do you stay sober? And
I said through Jesus Christ and He's my higher
power. And we were talking about this. Anyway,
long story short, I'm the only member of the
church that's a part of this group. We meet together,
have great discussions about raising the awareness
and the love that Jesus has for us. And every
once in a while, I quote out of the Book of Mormon.
And they all want to copy. And they love it.
They do. They want to know where you're getting
your information. That's right. Yeah. I just
think it's awesome how you bravely share. Like
you're not afraid to talk to somebody in the
line at the grocery store. Or if we're at a concert,
you start talking to somebody we're standing
by or sitting by. Or somebody on the airplane.
How many times have you shared, not just that
you're a recovering alcoholic, but also that
you do a podcast about the atonement of Jesus
Christ? I mean, I just think that's so commendable.
That's missionary work. That's the gathering.
That's the piece that it's like. And not all
of us are that brave. I'm just going to say that
out loud. Well, thanks, I guess. You're just
very brave. There's maybe a reason for that.
You know, I think that my personality is just
kind of that way anyway. I'm pretty outgoing
and gregarious. That's why I'm good at what I
do. I can be on a stage in front of hundreds
or thousands of people and do well with my work
in that regard, right? But that's not why. I
think that... I just burn inside so deeply with
the desire to spread the hope of Christ's atonement
and the joy that can come from Christ's atonement
to everybody. We all hurt. We all have pain.
We're all dealing with something. We're all carrying
our own cross. We're all traveling our own via
de la Rosa. You know, we're all all of those
things. But if but if I can like somebody else
did for me, I'm just feel like I'm just trying
to pay back You know somebody breathed hope into
me one day without that. Hope. I don't know that
I would be here I'm pretty sure I wouldn't and
I would be a sad memory and my parents for my
parents and I would be a sad memory even for
my kids and those kinds of things but because
somebody had the ability and the courage to to
breathe hope into me one day I I I feel Obligated
I feel like it's my duty to breathe at least
give people an opportunity and I don't I try
not to be preachy I try not to But but you know
in alcoholics anonymous we have a saying that
we practice these principles in all of our affairs
And I do try to practice all these principles
in all my affairs and my affairs are all my affairs
But then the other thing is is that we remember
that it's the spirit of attraction rather than
promotion Maybe this is your senior moment to
get your duty to God. Yeah. That's kind of a
cool way to look at it because, you know, you
talk about checkboxes, but now you have a heart
that is in this relationship with Heavenly Father
and Jesus Christ. that it's like, I want to do
your work. I want to breathe hope into these
people that felt the same pain that I felt these
and and let people know that you're not alone
and you don't have to do this alone. That there
is a solution. Yeah. And it works if you work
it. Throw that in. Yeah. That's another thing
we say. You know, Deb, I think if we probably
need to wrap up. But if I was if I were to say
there's one thing that I wish that I could relieve
from people who are struggling, it would be shame.
We should feel no shame in this. Heavenly Father's
not mad at us. He's not surprised by this. He
understands the conditions that we are responding
to that creates the need for us to change the
way we feel and the way that we've done it. And
I'm not making excuses. I'm not on Satan's errand
when I'm saying this. I am telling the world
that Heavenly Father is not surprised when we
struggle. This is the fall of Adam and Eve. It
either is or it isn't. Yeah, and we're all in
a fallen world. And it's fallen. It is or it
isn't. It is. It's fallen. And because it's fallen,
I'm fallen. Because I'm fallen, transgression
is going to separate me from Him too. And when
separation comes by way of transgression, I have
a way to close that gap through the atonement
of Jesus Christ, through His atoning sacrifice,
through the blessings that come by way of compensatory
enabling and redeeming blessings. And I'm so
grateful to know that today. I was just going
to ask, what would you say to people that feels
trapped by addiction shame or fear or discouragement
yeah just don't give up hope yeah yeah just don't
give up hope and be open and put yourself in
positions and places and respond when you feel
an urge respond to it when you feel a prompting
respond to it you just never know you just never
know i received an urge i received a prompting
deb when i was blackout almost drunk And that
was that night on October 24th, 1998 when I was
trying to drink myself to death. I received it
even there. Yeah. In the darkest places he comes
to us. Yeah. So what does it mean to you today
to be redeemed one day at a time? When I think
about the word redeemed and we've talked about
this and I'm not just regurgitating what we've
talked about for the sake of regurgitation. I'm
saying this because it means this to me. When
I think of redeemed I think of His body bruised
and broken for my sake I think of him falling
on his face in the Garden of Gethsemane I think
about the hemahydrosis that caused him to bleed
from literally every pore Not not it not as Some
of our other Christian friends see it where he
sweat as though it were great drops of blood
from the Book of Mormon we know He bled from
every pore. And he went through the press three
times. He went through the press in Gethsemane
three times, and then he hung on the cross and
suffered according to apostles and prophets in
modern revelation. He suffered Gethsemane intensified.
And while he was there, his father even left
him. You know, he's asking his father, father,
if it be possible, let this cup pass from me,
please. But nevertheless, not my will, but thine
be done. He was willing to subject his will to
the Father because I would need him to someday.
And he did it for me. He did it for you. He did
it for everybody. I know as sure as I'm sitting
here and drawing breath that he suffered for
my infirmities. He suffered for my inequalities.
He suffered for my transgression. He suffered
for every part of me that's fallen. He knows
what it feels like to be where I've been. And
I know that because I have spent time getting
to know him so that I could know that about him.
And as I've gotten to know that about him, his
love for me has become so undeniable that I literally
find myself in a posture of trying to become
more like him on a more consistent basis. And
to me, Deb, That's recovery That's recovery not
just from alcoholism Not just from addiction
drug addiction or any of the other things that's
recovery from the fallenness that we all feel
That's absolutely beautiful and absolutely true
I Love when we get to reflect on that know the
sacramental hymns that we seen before we renew
our covenants with him Think of the broken brews
torn bread and as As we see those Pieces of bread
that are all broken differently. We're all broken
differently But he and only he and through him
Can we partake of him and his precious atonement?
To be healed. That's so beautiful. I love that.
I Love you I love you, too. Well, I kind of knew
we were going to do that today, but I didn't
know it would be quite like that. Thanks, Dub,
for for making sure we did that. It's an honor.
It has been kind of. You know, we've gone through
this for a few years and it just hasn't occurred
to me, you know. You know, I talk about my alcoholism
and I talk about this and that, but I've never
really gotten in. And we just barely scratched
the surface of my story. I don't really, the
story's not what's important. It's the solution
that's important. But, you know, I earned my
way to the solution. Yeah, you know and I know
that I'm not alone and I know that there are
people out there who are feeling the same Types
of things and if you're feeling that please please
please please Please turn to him He knows he's
not mad at you. He's not surprised by any of
this. He's just waiting literally just waiting
as we close today I just want to remind you that
wherever you are and however you're feeling you're
welcome here More importantly, you're welcome
to be at the feet of Jesus He isn't just waiting
for you to clean everything up before you come
to him. He wants you now And he meets us in the
middle of our mess our dark lonely disparaging,
painful mess. That's where His grace literally
shines the brightest. So come as you are, broken,
torn, hopeful, questioning, searching. You truly
are not alone. And I think that's our biggest
goal here is to make sure that nobody feels that
aloneness that we felt, we have all felt, but
you're not alone. Yeah. We are not alone. No,
in fact, we want to stay connected with you.
Please reach out if you have questions, if you
just need somebody to reach out to. I mentioned
last week that we pray for you. If you want us
to pray for you by name and situation, please
let us know that as well. We do have a prayer
list that, you know, it's kind of important to
us. And so if you'd like to be a part of that,
that'd be awesome. You can reach us at heredeemsusatgmail
.com. And if this episode touched your heart
or it made you think of somebody else, we hope
you'll share it with somebody that needs a little
more hope right now. Maybe someone you love,
a friend, a family member, anyone that could
just use a little more hope and just know that
they're not alone. Next week we'll talk about
something else. I think we're done with our events
of October. Yeah, I think that we'll... Halloween's
coming, but that's not... We'll move into other
aspects of Christ's atonement. Maybe we'll talk
about instruments of grace, the importance of
and how to maintain relationship with the Holy
Ghost so that we can feel the atonement of Christ
in our lives all the time. Friends, thanks for
being with us. And remember, there's always hope
through Him. Because we and you have been redeemed
through his blood. Thanks for being with us everybody.
We'll see you next time