WEBVTT 00:00:15.899 --> 00:00:18.660 Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:21.379 episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. I'm Scott 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:25.219 Durfey and I'm joined as always by the stunning 00:00:25.219 --> 00:00:29.940 and beautiful What Debra Durfey I just can't 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:32.119 wait to hear all the words all the adjectives 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:34.780 that you use to describe my goal is to have something 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:38.200 different every time Well, that's very kind of 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.320 you. Thank you. And hello friends. It's not I'm 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:43.299 being sincere. You're stunning. You're beautiful 00:00:43.299 --> 00:00:45.840 So you're very kind. Well, hello to you too, 00:00:45.979 --> 00:00:49.399 Deborah. How's your how's your week? It's been 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:52.179 great. Yeah, actually you enjoying this nice 00:00:52.179 --> 00:00:54.100 weather. We've been having here along the Wasatch 00:00:54.100 --> 00:00:58.460 Front. It's okay I love the colors. I love all 00:00:58.460 --> 00:01:00.700 of the colors. I love the middle of the day. 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:02.899 But I will tell you this, this morning when I 00:01:02.899 --> 00:01:04.879 got up to go to the gym it was 28 degrees. I 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:09.140 am not loving that at all. But you know, this 00:01:09.140 --> 00:01:11.319 afternoon the sun came out and I got to see all 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:13.560 the colors and things are still a little green 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:17.140 and orange and red and yellow and I love the 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:19.420 colors. And I love that we get a little bit of 00:01:19.420 --> 00:01:22.120 warmth in the afternoon. Do you still love living 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:24.890 in an area where we have four seasons? Yes, but 00:01:24.890 --> 00:01:28.370 I think winter hogs them all, hogs all the seasons. 00:01:28.510 --> 00:01:30.870 Yeah, winter does show up in all of them. I don't 00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:33.670 think we get enough of the summer, spring, and 00:01:33.670 --> 00:01:36.390 fall. I wish we would have three solid good months 00:01:36.390 --> 00:01:38.829 of fall. So if you're in a climate that you get 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:41.129 those three solid months of fall, let me know 00:01:41.129 --> 00:01:44.939 where you're at. We're going to relocate. News 00:01:44.939 --> 00:01:47.359 to me, but that's okay. That's great. As long 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.200 as it's Hawaii or someplace cool like that Well, 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.819 you need snow you bought your ski pass Yeah, 00:01:52.819 --> 00:01:55.239 I'm super excited about that. You know, that 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:58.640 is the price we pay we we here along the Wasatch 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:00.379 Front I don't know why we're wasting everybody's 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:02.719 time with this conversation, but here along the 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.060 Wasatch Front We do have the Four Seasons and 00:02:05.060 --> 00:02:06.859 you know, one of the prices we pay for those 00:02:06.859 --> 00:02:10.520 beautiful summers is the winter but that those 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:15.969 hard winters are long a ski dark cold. You're 00:02:15.969 --> 00:02:20.090 talking over me now. Sorry, but it's true. They 00:02:20.090 --> 00:02:24.030 are a skiers dream. So it's true. I'm dreaming 00:02:24.030 --> 00:02:27.490 of a very white winter. I was going to say Christmas, 00:02:27.490 --> 00:02:29.930 but I need it to be much more than Christmas. 00:02:30.449 --> 00:02:35.039 Whatever. Last week, we talked about. the atonement, 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.020 obviously. You know, what was really cool is 00:02:38.020 --> 00:02:40.500 we talked a little bit about what we talked about 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:44.039 on the podcast in Institute. Not a lot. I mean, 00:02:44.060 --> 00:02:46.080 we've kind of shifted gears a little bit there. 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:48.819 But, you know, we had just a great experience 00:02:48.819 --> 00:02:53.139 too in Institute as we visited the The events 00:02:53.139 --> 00:02:55.500 of Christ's Atonement over the last couple of 00:02:55.500 --> 00:02:57.900 weeks, I'm looking forward there to moving into 00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:02.620 faith and how we access His blessings through 00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:05.139 faith, through faith in His name, faith unto 00:03:05.139 --> 00:03:07.240 repentance, and all those things that we've talked 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.020 about already on this podcast this season. But 00:03:10.020 --> 00:03:13.060 I'm excited about that too. Yeah, October's a 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:19.400 big month for us. We have some milestones that 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:25.150 we both... kind of hit in October. And last week 00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:29.009 we talked about Grammy Day and what that really 00:03:29.009 --> 00:03:32.710 meant to me and my story, my experiences and 00:03:32.710 --> 00:03:35.729 how God's grace had shown up in my life. This 00:03:35.729 --> 00:03:39.349 week I thought would shift the focus to you, 00:03:39.409 --> 00:03:42.870 Scott. You just celebrated 27 years of sobriety 00:03:42.870 --> 00:03:46.469 on October 26th. And that's a pretty sacred milestone. 00:03:47.569 --> 00:03:51.289 You kind of had a lot of feels this Last weekend. 00:03:51.370 --> 00:03:55.169 They're coming up again. Yeah Let's talk about 00:03:55.169 --> 00:03:59.629 that journey And especially, you know since you 00:03:59.629 --> 00:04:01.569 brought it up about how Christ's atonement has 00:04:01.569 --> 00:04:04.189 been the heartbeat of your recovery Yeah, it 00:04:04.189 --> 00:04:07.789 really has Has become that yeah, it was in the 00:04:07.789 --> 00:04:09.770 very beginning It was interesting that I didn't 00:04:09.770 --> 00:04:12.270 have the ability to recognize that that's what 00:04:12.270 --> 00:04:14.050 it was in the very beginning Which is really 00:04:14.050 --> 00:04:17.930 interesting to me I might speak to that a little 00:04:17.930 --> 00:04:21.029 bit, you know when Anytime that we receive any 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:25.689 blessing, we know that it comes as a direct gift 00:04:25.689 --> 00:04:29.009 or a gift that we've aligned with sometimes or 00:04:29.009 --> 00:04:31.189 what have you. Last week, you talked a lot about 00:04:31.189 --> 00:04:36.209 receiving the gift, you know. And when I first 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:39.389 got sober, I didn't realize it, and I think this 00:04:39.389 --> 00:04:42.660 is true for all of us that... That when good 00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:45.139 things happen in our lives those who are Heavenly 00:04:45.139 --> 00:04:48.319 Father blessing us and giving us the things to 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:50.540 compensate us and to give us the strength and 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:52.399 the power and the different things that we need 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:55.759 in order to you know, really be able to align 00:04:55.759 --> 00:05:00.100 with his blessings for us and You know, I was 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:02.240 doing that without realizing I was doing that 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:05.500 in the beginning I I can relate to that. Yeah. 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.350 Yeah because you you know, you're doing things 00:05:09.350 --> 00:05:11.550 and then later you look back and you're like, 00:05:11.569 --> 00:05:14.569 Oh, that was the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oh, 00:05:14.569 --> 00:05:16.689 that was the spirit leading me and guiding me. 00:05:16.790 --> 00:05:20.089 Oh, I was inspired. The Holy Ghost was my comforter 00:05:20.089 --> 00:05:23.569 during that time. I love that. Yeah, I love that. 00:05:23.970 --> 00:05:26.269 Yeah. So when you think about these, the last 00:05:26.269 --> 00:05:30.509 27 years, what, what are the emotions that surface? 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:35.709 Oh, boy. Yeah. Right. All of them. Right, you 00:05:35.709 --> 00:05:38.449 know when I think back we've been we've been 00:05:38.449 --> 00:05:41.089 doing this podcast now. This is I think fourth 00:05:41.089 --> 00:05:44.689 year You know, and this is really the first time 00:05:44.689 --> 00:05:48.149 that we've kind of dove in to any part of my 00:05:48.149 --> 00:05:50.970 story and you know and I you kind of warned me 00:05:50.970 --> 00:05:53.110 we were gonna do that today and I've been kind 00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:57.069 of thinking a little bit about this and and You 00:05:57.069 --> 00:05:59.149 know when you say what are the emotions? What 00:05:59.149 --> 00:06:02.740 are the feelings that the first one? that I have 00:06:02.740 --> 00:06:05.279 to go to is gratitude, absolute gratitude. You 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:07.160 posted that on social media, which I thought 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:11.600 was really cool, too. Yeah, I did. Me, too. Yeah. 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.980 Yeah, just absolute gratitude, because, you know, 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:23.360 there's there's just no way I deserve it. There's 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:26.740 just no way I deserve. the blessings and the 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:29.199 recovery and all the blessings. There's been 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:31.259 a lot of garbage that's come with it too, but 00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:35.199 there's just no way I deserve it. But the gratitude 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:38.120 that comes because knowing that even though I 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.939 don't, he'll still give me what I need by way 00:06:42.939 --> 00:06:46.920 of blessing so that I can have supreme happiness 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:48.620 and joy in this life. I mean, that's really what 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:51.399 he wants for me to have and have peace among 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:55.240 that or in that. So you go to gratitude today, 00:06:55.339 --> 00:07:00.939 27 years, one day at a time. But how has your 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:04.199 understanding of that recovery changed with time? 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:07.000 Like when you very first entered those rooms 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.360 of recovery, I happened to meet you in the first 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.019 30 days of your sobriety. And you were not 100 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:18.139 % full of gratitude in that moment. From my observation. 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:20.360 But you know what, from your observation, I want 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:22.160 you to share kind of where you were at. Well, 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.879 I had a lot of gratitude then, too. It's just 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:27.100 different, you know. Well, one thing I do want 00:07:27.100 --> 00:07:30.740 to say, you know, you do recovery one day at 00:07:30.740 --> 00:07:37.379 a time. But we do life and, you know, our spiritual 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:40.660 practice one day at a time. We never get it perfected. 00:07:40.699 --> 00:07:43.779 Right. You know? Yeah. So my question for you 00:07:43.779 --> 00:07:49.339 is, how was your understanding? Recovery changed 00:07:49.339 --> 00:07:52.620 different today from the day you walked into 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:56.480 the rooms of recovery the the The best way for 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.060 me to explain that Deb is to talk about the first 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:02.120 three steps You know in alcoholics anonymous 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:06.759 step number one is came no Admitted admitted 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:09.319 that I was powerless over alcohol and that my 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:12.680 life had become unmanageable The second step 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:15.040 is came to believe that a power greater than 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:18.139 myself could restore me to sanity. And then the 00:08:18.139 --> 00:08:20.319 third step is I make a decision to turn my will 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.420 and my life over to the care of God as I understand 00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:26.079 him. When I first came into recovery, that second 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:30.800 part of the third step tripped me up. So, you 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.360 know, let's just revisit it. The third step is 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.360 made a decision to turn my will and my life over 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:38.789 to the care of God. That's the first part. Okay, 00:08:38.809 --> 00:08:41.090 there's actually three parts. There's the decision, 00:08:41.210 --> 00:08:45.250 what's that decision about? And then, turn my 00:08:45.250 --> 00:08:47.429 will and my life over to the care of God as I 00:08:47.429 --> 00:08:50.230 understand Him. That was the catcher for me, 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:53.009 as I understand Him. I didn't understand God 00:08:53.009 --> 00:08:56.049 when I first got here the way that I feel like 00:08:56.049 --> 00:08:58.590 I understand Him today. That my relationship 00:08:58.590 --> 00:09:01.570 with deity, when I first came into the rooms 00:09:01.570 --> 00:09:06.029 of recovery, My relationship with Deity was completely 00:09:06.029 --> 00:09:08.169 different than it is today. It was definitely 00:09:08.169 --> 00:09:11.889 a checkbox relationship. It was, you do this 00:09:11.889 --> 00:09:15.009 and you can have that kind of relationship, right? 00:09:15.169 --> 00:09:19.169 I mean, we're taught in D &C 8210, I'm Lord and 00:09:19.169 --> 00:09:20.909 Bound when you do what I say, but when you don't 00:09:20.909 --> 00:09:22.929 do what I say, you have no promise. And I knew 00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:27.429 I had no promise because I just couldn't live 00:09:27.429 --> 00:09:32.220 the law. the way that I thought the law should 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:36.460 be lived, the way that I, you know, I keep apologizing 00:09:36.460 --> 00:09:39.139 for everybody who taught me this, but I was taught 00:09:39.139 --> 00:09:43.860 that. We were literally taught to worship the 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:46.779 law, you know, to make sure you get the Eagle 00:09:46.779 --> 00:09:48.919 Scout, to make sure you get your duty to God 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:51.659 award, to make sure you check every box and you 00:09:51.659 --> 00:09:54.019 go on your mission. We don't talk, we didn't 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:57.620 talk enough and I didn't hear it at least about 00:09:58.110 --> 00:10:00.909 Having a relationship when when things are terrible 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:03.629 and rotten and no good Scott go go take it to 00:10:03.629 --> 00:10:07.590 your heavenly father You know and have that experience 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:09.950 with him have that relationship I was just reading 00:10:09.950 --> 00:10:12.169 in and I don't want to compare myself down with 00:10:12.169 --> 00:10:14.970 the younger, but I was just reading and the Book 00:10:14.970 --> 00:10:17.009 of Mormon the other day his experience and how 00:10:17.009 --> 00:10:20.370 he cried out and how He just knew that you know 00:10:20.370 --> 00:10:22.610 he had the pains of a damned soul. I had the 00:10:22.610 --> 00:10:26.019 pains of a damned soul as well And I knew that 00:10:26.019 --> 00:10:28.480 I had gone too far. I just knew I had because 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.620 I, you know, all this checkbox experience, et 00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:35.340 cetera, for me, all that was doing was creating 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:40.059 a visual of Scott Durfee in my mind, at least. 00:10:40.299 --> 00:10:42.259 And that's the way I thought I saw everybody 00:10:42.259 --> 00:10:46.610 else saw me. It was hollow. It was unfulfilling. 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.190 It felt like a lie because it was a lie, right? 00:10:50.490 --> 00:10:52.850 And, Deb, I just had to keep changing the way 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:56.429 I felt. And, you know, your question is, well, 00:10:56.429 --> 00:10:58.950 how do you see your recovery different today 00:10:58.950 --> 00:11:02.049 than it was then? I changed the way I feel today 00:11:02.049 --> 00:11:05.950 through the administrator of Christ's Atonement, 00:11:06.389 --> 00:11:11.009 through the Holy Ghost. And maybe that's perhaps 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:14.269 the biggest way. that it has, and I don't want 00:11:14.269 --> 00:11:16.649 to even use the word changed, you know, because, 00:11:17.190 --> 00:11:19.970 but it's evolved. It's grown. Well, repentance 00:11:19.970 --> 00:11:22.970 is change. Right. So maybe it has changed. Yeah, 00:11:23.190 --> 00:11:26.250 that's true through him. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. 00:11:26.789 --> 00:11:30.269 So, I mean, taking us back in time to the beginning, 00:11:30.370 --> 00:11:33.409 what was the most or what was the moment when 00:11:33.409 --> 00:11:37.669 you knew you couldn't do this alone? Yeah. I 00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:41.590 don't like what at what point did you say enough's 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.720 enough? This is my end. I cannot do this anymore. 00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:48.379 You know what, it may be a lot of our listeners 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:51.200 will be able to relate to this, those who have 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.139 similar experience, and it doesn't necessarily 00:11:53.139 --> 00:11:55.500 have to be with the same substances, by the way. 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.240 But Deb, I don't, I had several of those moments. 00:12:00.139 --> 00:12:03.960 I really did. I had, I remember having moments 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:06.879 when I first came home off my mission and had 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.679 drank again. you know, and feeling like, oh, 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:12.000 this is rock bottom for me, you know, and then 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.279 for whatever reason it's not, then going through 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:17.019 divorces and going through legal issues, going 00:12:17.019 --> 00:12:19.519 through drug addictions and going through, you 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:23.620 know, all kinds of stuff. There were so many, 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:26.179 there were so many, I don't know how to call 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:29.220 them, but so many rock bottoms along the way. 00:12:29.299 --> 00:12:32.179 You know, it's really, it's really interesting 00:12:32.179 --> 00:12:39.399 to me that when it all came down, I mean, It 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:44.220 was October 25th, 1998. I was drinking to kill 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:49.159 myself. I had, you know, it sounds silly to people. 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.500 You don't kill yourself that way. Well, I know 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:55.019 a couple of people who have and you're making 00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:58.460 an attempt. And I don't know if I really was 00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:01.200 or if I was. I don't know. I was just so desperate 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.379 to change something in the way I felt. And I 00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:08.059 remember As I was growing up, I always felt so 00:13:08.059 --> 00:13:11.740 guilty about asking Heavenly Father for help 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:15.279 if I was in a bad way. I felt like I needed to 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.659 not be under the influence anymore, or I needed 00:13:18.659 --> 00:13:22.100 to be temple -worthy almost again in order for 00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:24.460 me to reach out to him and get any kind of response 00:13:24.460 --> 00:13:28.679 from him, which is totally jacked up. And not 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.759 true. That's what that means. This is drug addict 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:39.600 and alcoholic language tonight. But the thing 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:46.759 that I have to remember is that last day, October 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:49.340 25th, 1998, when I was making that attempt, I 00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:52.700 was literally crying out at the same time, please 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.970 help me, just please. Please help me. I was so 00:13:56.970 --> 00:13:59.429 desperate and had received what we call in AA 00:13:59.429 --> 00:14:01.909 the gift of desperation. I was just so desperate. 00:14:02.230 --> 00:14:06.169 In my life, I wasn't facing any kind of impending 00:14:06.169 --> 00:14:09.769 doom around legal stuff. I had already gone through 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:14.509 another divorce. I had everything in my life. 00:14:14.509 --> 00:14:17.250 I was living in a rent delinquent apartment. 00:14:17.429 --> 00:14:20.669 I had already done bankruptcy, financial bankruptcy. 00:14:20.769 --> 00:14:24.600 I had been spiritually bankrupt forever. And 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:28.580 I'm laying there, and at this point in my recovery, 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:31.100 I'm no longer going to sleep. I'm passing out, 00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.840 and I'm no longer waking up. I'm coming to, right? 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:36.940 Well, I came to the next morning to a phone call, 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:40.559 and God answered my prayers. It was a phone call 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.940 from somebody who I love, a priesthood leader. 00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:47.820 All my life, I had tried to be aligned with the 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:50.019 gospel of Jesus Christ, because I never doubted 00:14:50.019 --> 00:14:52.669 it. I always knew it was true. But I got that 00:14:52.669 --> 00:14:55.370 phone call from him, and that was God reaching 00:14:55.370 --> 00:14:59.350 down. And I love, again, reading about Alma. 00:14:59.429 --> 00:15:01.409 Who was that person? You don't need to tell me 00:15:01.409 --> 00:15:03.289 the name, but what was his role? He was the stake 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:07.970 president of mine at the time. And I honestly 00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:11.690 can relate when, again, as I was reading in the 00:15:11.690 --> 00:15:13.610 Book of Mormon the other day where Alma says, 00:15:13.870 --> 00:15:16.809 I was snatched. I literally felt on that day 00:15:16.809 --> 00:15:21.700 that I was snatched. Like he just. He knew you 00:15:21.700 --> 00:15:27.899 know he knew what was going on and Through other 00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:30.419 people who he knew I loved and respected he just 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:32.279 reached down and snatched me and that was the 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.360 beginning You know that wasn't the end nothing 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:36.659 got better that day. That's not true a whole 00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:39.500 bunch got better that day But I share that experience 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:44.220 because I think it's tender and sweet your meet 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:46.580 when you met with the state president so he called 00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:51.019 me that sunday morning october 25th 1998 i had 00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:55.360 been drinking all through the night i had uh 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:58.139 at this point i had to drink in the morning just 00:15:58.139 --> 00:16:01.299 to keep from throwing up and and a bunch of other 00:16:01.299 --> 00:16:05.000 stuff it was no longer a choice yeah i i i had 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.519 so far gone the choice to drink or drug or anything 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.039 like that. And I was just desperate. And I got 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:14.720 this phone call. And he's like, What's going 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.080 on with you? And I said, What are you talking 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.220 about? He says, I've been worried about you tonight. 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.120 And I says, I can't quit drinking, man. And he 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.379 says, Anyway, we talked and ended up meeting 00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:30.039 later that day, and he gave me the best news 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.039 I ever heard. He says, God, I think you might 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.980 be an alcoholic. You know, and the cool thing 00:16:35.980 --> 00:16:40.519 about that, Deb, was like, nobody has that as 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.860 a goal. I hope somebody who I trust and know 00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:46.779 and will believe will someday tell me that I'm 00:16:46.779 --> 00:16:49.559 an alcoholic. Nobody has that desire. I mean, 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.159 that was just weird, right? But when I heard 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.179 that, I felt more relief and more hope than maybe 00:16:56.179 --> 00:17:00.419 I had felt up until that point in my entire life. 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.059 Again, I was being snatched. It was probably 00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:07.680 a diagnosis that it was like, here it is. Yeah. 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.079 And when that diagnosis comes, maybe that's where 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:15.740 the solution that's like, oh, OK. Maybe there 00:17:15.740 --> 00:17:19.079 was yeah, you know and I started attending alcoholics 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.700 non anonymous right away and I read in the doctor's 00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:23.759 opinion in the big book of alcoholics anonymous 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.180 that I suffer from a malady of Spirit and body 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:31.099 where I have this craving of alcohol, but I I 00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:35.079 have a spiritual Dismiss alignment as well. And 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:38.279 so I'll just all kinds of hope Sprung from that 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.359 day. I had to walk through and wade through a 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.119 lot of garbage and have done over the last 27 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:46.680 years. And I've waded through stuff recently, 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.319 you know, as a direct result of the wake that 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:54.700 we as alcoholics and addicts sometimes leave 00:17:54.700 --> 00:17:58.380 behind us. But it's kind of important. Yeah. 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.220 You know, I think it's interesting because I 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:08.599 met you one month into your recovery and we've 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:12.819 both said this, but You have said recovery and 00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:15.599 repentance follow the same spiritual pattern. 00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:20.799 How has the 12 steps helped you understand the 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.500 atonement more deeply? I've always called it 00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:26.079 the atonement for dummies because I really did 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:28.099 not understand the atonement until I stepped 00:18:28.099 --> 00:18:31.019 into those rooms of recovery and then I had a 00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:34.220 tangible experience. Tell me about how it was 00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:41.740 for you. The 12 steps or the atonement for dummies. 00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:46.900 I think we're all dummies I think we all I think 00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:49.960 we all are and that's just it. You know when 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:54.920 I I Don't know how to really articulate this 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:58.400 sweetheart when I when when I first When I first 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:03.519 got sober and were was working through an alignment 00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.359 Right? I was just trying to align my will with 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.059 the care of God as I understood Him. That's literally 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:11.400 from the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.480 was literally just trying to understand His will 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.640 for me and pray for the power to carry it out. 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.519 Right? That's step 11. Well, and also, did you 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.779 have to redefine who your God was? Because earlier 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:27.559 you just mentioned that. Yeah, that's a really 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:31.029 good point. Yeah. And that's really the key. 00:19:31.769 --> 00:19:36.109 When I have this relationship, this checkbox, 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:38.890 this transactional, that's probably the best 00:19:38.890 --> 00:19:41.789 way to put it, right? This transactional relationship 00:19:41.789 --> 00:19:50.650 with God, that left me hollow. There was never 00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:56.490 at any time did I feel like I was being buoyed 00:19:56.490 --> 00:19:59.819 up by Him. As I was doing that, but when I finally 00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:03.119 was able to get raw and when I was finally able 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.339 to understand that He's not mad at me that he 00:20:07.339 --> 00:20:10.220 he wasn't hiding around the corner at setting 00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:14.200 speed traps for me I've described it that way 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:18.089 a lot, you know, but but he but that he loves 00:20:18.089 --> 00:20:22.170 me, that his desire was for me to have all the 00:20:22.170 --> 00:20:26.349 joy and the peace that he died for in the garden 00:20:26.349 --> 00:20:29.730 and on the cross. When I began to understand 00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:34.849 that, it became a lot easier. I felt like instead 00:20:34.849 --> 00:20:39.210 of earning my way back, I was being drawn back 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:43.000 to him. You know, I didn't feel like I was checking 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.240 boxes anymore and and and earning things earning 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.339 merit badges towards my celestial eagle scout 00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:51.579 or you know, whatever like that I I felt like 00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:56.140 I was just making now progress in a relationship 00:20:56.140 --> 00:20:58.799 and this relationship began to give me a lot 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.500 of peace and all of a sudden I don't feel like 00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:03.539 I need to change the way I feel anymore with 00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:07.400 drugs or alcohol or any other inappropriate behaviors, 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:12.470 etc. And I think also You know there's some one 00:21:12.470 --> 00:21:17.390 -liners that AA is always known for and I remember 00:21:17.390 --> 00:21:19.710 hearing one is you're only as sick as your secrets 00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:25.250 and you know I realized that you were living 00:21:25.250 --> 00:21:28.990 your own life but and doing your thing but you 00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:33.369 know as soon as I was able to get you know be 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:38.799 be true to thine own self be true on the AA chip. 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.880 And it's like, you know, I think so many times 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.240 we were just trying not to get caught. And I, 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:47.660 you know, I have pictures to go with those words 00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:52.380 because of how I interpreted how my, the God 00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:56.119 that I was raised believing, you know, was mad 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.819 at me or making black marks in heaven, certain 00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:03.900 things that I had done. So where, Like what what 00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.480 is grace taught you about who the Savior really 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:09.059 is and where have you seen the Savior's mercy 00:22:09.059 --> 00:22:13.259 show up? Most clearly in your recovery. Yeah, 00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:17.500 that's a great great question, you know Where 00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:19.960 the Savior's grace has showed up for me in my 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:24.980 recovery the most is Helping me realize that 00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:30.119 this is not something that I need to accomplish 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:34.980 I don't there's there comes a moment in a any 00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:38.480 anybody that recovers from alcohol drugs any 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.039 other type of addiction like that there comes 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.819 a point where Surrender is how we win and when 00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:51.180 we realize that it's just so It's just so counterintuitive 00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:56.160 to most people, you know in order for me to really 00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:59.839 get this thing, I have to surrender, I have to 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.759 give up. And so now it's no longer up to me, 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:08.720 right? And I've been told by so many people, 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.660 so many loving and well -intended people, you 00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:13.759 know, if you just pray more fervently, if you 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.200 just try a little harder, if you feel like drinking, 00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:21.599 call me, you know, those kinds of things. That's 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:25.380 not the deal. You know, it's understanding my 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:28.259 relationship with him and really turning everything 00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:32.099 to him, surrendering it all, everything to him. 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:36.180 That's so hard. I'm laughing because I can. That 00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:39.359 is so hard. And I still that's one of the things 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.680 I really struggle with today. I think is I think 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:43.599 we all do. I think it's a direct result of the 00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.539 fall of Adam and Eve. And one of the things that 00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:48.039 through Christ's moment that we should continually 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.630 strive to overcome. And and I do. But it's hard. 00:23:52.329 --> 00:23:55.289 So even after 27 years, I mean, anybody that 00:23:55.289 --> 00:23:58.349 sat in a room and you came in and you said, I've 00:23:58.349 --> 00:24:00.430 got 27 years sober, they'd be like, now that 00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:02.710 guy's got it figured out. Yeah. But you still 00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:05.910 talk about one day at a time. What does that 00:24:05.910 --> 00:24:08.309 look like today? And I think you just kind of 00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:11.029 touched on it spiritually and practically. I 00:24:11.029 --> 00:24:15.069 mean, like, because now you're in that that space 00:24:15.069 --> 00:24:19.839 of a spiritual relationship, a connection. But 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.519 what does that I mean when you say one day at 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:26.380 a time? What does that look like now? Yeah, it 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:28.279 looks different than it used to that's a great 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.799 question You know one day at a time it used to 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.519 look like just don't pick up one day at a time 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:37.240 Yeah, just don't pick up a drink or a drug one 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.759 day at a time And I remember you know the old 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:43.519 -timers. It's hard to imagine that I'm one of 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:49.559 them now, but I remember the old -timers My friends, 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:54.160 La La and Big Al and others who have passed, 00:24:54.299 --> 00:25:00.299 you know, that means so much to me that would 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:02.859 say, Scott, do you think you could just not drink 00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:06.660 today? Do you think you could just do it today? 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.539 And some days I'd say, no, I don't think I can. 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:15.079 And they'd say, it's okay. You know, just ask 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.900 God to direct you. Just ask God to help you. 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:21.900 Just turn it to Him. Ask Him that He will remove 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:25.400 it. And you know what, Deb? From the very first 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.980 day that I stepped in, October 26, 1998 was a 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:33.039 Monday night. And it was rainy, and it was at 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.220 the old Lano Club across from Geneva still, back 00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:40.220 when it was still around 27 years ago. And I'll 00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:44.680 never forget. I don't remember any words that 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.519 were said there. I honestly don't. You know, 00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:49.740 except for the catchphrases, the things that 00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:52.480 we say, the mantras, et cetera, that I recognize 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:57.099 now. But I'll never forget how I felt. You know, 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.579 there was something tangible when I walked into 00:26:00.579 --> 00:26:06.339 that. And back then, we could smoke. AA meetings 00:26:06.339 --> 00:26:08.380 and I don't think they were actually smoking 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:10.900 inside the room but this they were out on the 00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:13.460 porch smoking and the smoke was billowing in 00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:15.859 and there was coffee being poured and there was 00:26:15.859 --> 00:26:19.000 bad language being used and there was homelessness 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.779 there and there was infidelity there and there 00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:25.559 were felons there and there were tattoos there 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:27.220 and there were people who had just gotten out 00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:31.319 of prison there and I felt and attorneys and 00:26:32.620 --> 00:26:35.500 public speakers and you know and the rest of 00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:39.180 us too and doctors and but that the point is 00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:44.500 is it's like I Don't think that it looked like 00:26:44.500 --> 00:26:47.539 I thought it should look because I never felt 00:26:47.539 --> 00:26:50.420 spirit Stronger and I had been on a mission and 00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:53.299 I and I had a great mission, you know But I never 00:26:53.299 --> 00:26:55.880 felt the spirit of hope stronger than I felt 00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:58.480 in that room that night and and the difference 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.640 was is I was really coming to know and understand 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.960 Him turn it over to the care of God as I understand 00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:10.420 him that understanding Understanding of him has 00:27:10.420 --> 00:27:16.819 been has just really changed for me I've had 00:27:16.819 --> 00:27:19.579 the sacred opportunity to watch you in that journey. 00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.500 And it has been, I've seen you struggle through 00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:25.460 things and I've seen you 12 step things and I've 00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:28.759 seen you work through a lot and you're a wonderful 00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:33.779 example to so many that you have no idea. the 00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:36.599 lives that you've impacted and the lives that 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:40.359 you've changed just by living your life and then 00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:43.519 also by sponsoring and helping others. So how 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:46.759 do you keep your spiritual condition strong day 00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:48.779 to day? Yeah, this is a great question and this 00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:51.039 is a really important thing for every single 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:53.660 one of us regardless of our station in life or 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:56.640 our spiritual attunement or what have you. This 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.680 is so important because regardless of who we 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:05.410 are, we're all His right our identity my identity 00:28:05.410 --> 00:28:09.670 is not my alcoholism My identity is not my addiction. 00:28:09.670 --> 00:28:12.789 My identity is not all the messed up stuff that 00:28:12.789 --> 00:28:15.349 I did all the legal problem That's not my identity. 00:28:15.349 --> 00:28:19.529 My identity is as i'm a son of god Who loves 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:23.789 me? And he knows me and he knows my heart and 00:28:23.789 --> 00:28:27.349 he knows my weakness and he knows that I have 00:28:27.349 --> 00:28:34.650 a desire to come unto him and And in the big 00:28:34.650 --> 00:28:38.170 book we read that he doesn't require too much 00:28:38.170 --> 00:28:41.670 of those who seek him. The big book about alcoholic 00:28:41.670 --> 00:28:44.930 synonymous, I had to learn that there. All I 00:28:44.930 --> 00:28:47.130 have to do is seek him, I'll find him, he'll 00:28:47.130 --> 00:28:50.849 meet me, he comes to me. And that's repentance, 00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:54.369 right? And that's the gospel of Jesus Christ 00:28:54.369 --> 00:28:58.910 and that's literally. the way that I maintain, 00:28:59.009 --> 00:29:01.049 you know, maintenance of a spiritual program. 00:29:01.170 --> 00:29:03.049 In the Big Book of Alcoholics, none of us, it 00:29:03.049 --> 00:29:05.849 tells us that all we really have is a daily reprieve. 00:29:05.930 --> 00:29:08.069 All we get is a daily reprieve, but it's based 00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:11.410 on our spiritual condition. Well, what we've 00:29:11.410 --> 00:29:15.250 been talking about over the last several seasons 00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:18.069 and, you know, through this season and Institute 00:29:18.069 --> 00:29:20.789 and the other places that we have opportunity 00:29:20.789 --> 00:29:23.900 to testify and witness. The things that we've 00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:26.599 been talking about our Christ's atonement are 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:29.619 administrated and administered to us through 00:29:29.619 --> 00:29:33.019 the Holy Ghost and When I have the Holy Ghost 00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:36.700 in my life, I can have recovery when I have the 00:29:36.700 --> 00:29:38.740 Holy Ghost in my life I can know that I'm being 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:41.079 forgiven of my sins when I have the Holy Ghost 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:44.779 in my life I know that I'm aligned or being better 00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:47.440 aligned with my Heavenly Father's will for me 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.799 And and that doesn't have to be different in 00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:57.539 AA or any other recovery program. That can and 00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:01.039 should be the same because it is literally me 00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:05.359 working my first three steps. I can't. I'm powerless 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:08.000 over alcohol. My life became unmanageable. I 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.740 can't. He can. I came to believe that a power 00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:12.880 greater than myself could restore me to sanity. 00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:17.319 That's him. Who? Jesus Christ, my Redeemer. Right? 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:20.539 But I have to take action and that action looks 00:30:20.539 --> 00:30:22.420 like turning my will in my life over the care 00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:26.960 of God as I Understand him now and will continue 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.720 to grow in that understanding as my relationship 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.059 covenant relationship grows with it Well, and 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:35.539 I think it's important to remember in that third 00:30:35.539 --> 00:30:39.259 step when it said half when you have a desire 00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:44.980 I Think desire is a big key right there to you 00:30:44.980 --> 00:30:49.079 know, you've got to get to that point that I've 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.740 got to get to that point where I'm going to let 00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:56.099 him. Because I have a tendency, and I've shared 00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:59.240 this before, to sit in that driver's seat and 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.559 clench onto that steering wheel. But until I 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:07.740 have that desire to let go. let him drive and 00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:11.279 let him be in charge of the mess that's in my 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.859 life in my life or in front of me or in my kids 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:17.579 lives or whatever and remember that they're all 00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:20.559 sons and daughters of him too and he's in charge 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:25.740 and he loves them all perfectly too. That's impressive 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:30.099 that you remember that. So how has your dependence 00:31:30.099 --> 00:31:34.559 on the Savior deepened over the years and in 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:40.059 what ways? Yeah, I want for my dependence on 00:31:40.059 --> 00:31:45.160 the Savior, my intentional dependence on the 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.319 Savior. I recognize that I have complete dependence 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:51.019 on the Savior even for my very breath as we read 00:31:51.019 --> 00:31:53.200 about from King Benjamin, right? Yeah, but how 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:56.099 easy is that? I know, I know. So that's why I 00:31:56.099 --> 00:32:00.880 differentiate it with my intentional Right. Experience 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.640 with a savior, etc. So my goal, my desire is 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:09.500 that it will continue to deepen daily. That honestly, 00:32:09.500 --> 00:32:12.680 that really is my goal, you know, to have even 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.359 a deeper relationship. And I know that it's really 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.119 difficult. I know that to even quantify that 00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:23.579 would be a arduous task at best. But but but 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:29.680 it nonetheless is a I think a a worthy endeavor 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:33.440 is to try to deepen my relationship with him 00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:36.599 every day. And the way I do that, I just talked 00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.319 about it. I try to have the Spirit in my life. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.960 I remember the promises that I made, and I remember 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.420 the promises that He made to me. You know, my 00:32:46.420 --> 00:32:48.559 promise that I will always remember Him, that 00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:50.660 I'll keep His commandments to the best of my 00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:53.359 ability. I'll align with Him in all ways that 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:56.220 I possibly can. I'll try to serve the One. I'll 00:32:56.220 --> 00:32:59.160 try to endure to the end. I'll do all of that, 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:03.359 and all I get back is that His Spirit will always 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.359 be with me. And I need nothing more than that. 00:33:07.529 --> 00:33:11.329 And so that's how and and that's how I think 00:33:11.329 --> 00:33:14.190 that until that that day becomes perfect You 00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:17.650 know that perfect day when he comes again And 00:33:17.650 --> 00:33:20.490 and when we're all taking out taken up and you 00:33:20.490 --> 00:33:25.130 know this mortal sojourn is completed I think 00:33:25.130 --> 00:33:29.630 until then that this will be my quest to Continually 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:32.109 have that relationship because Deb if I don't 00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:36.670 you know what happens it comes back It comes 00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:40.950 back all the yuck comes back for me I haven't 00:33:40.950 --> 00:33:44.150 intentionally experimented with it but through 00:33:44.150 --> 00:33:47.190 laziness and through my own fallenness over the 00:33:47.190 --> 00:33:50.349 years there have been periods of time when my 00:33:50.349 --> 00:33:53.509 My my recovery and my relationship with Heavenly 00:33:53.509 --> 00:33:56.250 Father and his son through the Holy Ghost have 00:33:56.250 --> 00:34:01.069 been lacking And I hope that I will never be 00:34:01.069 --> 00:34:02.750 able to say that for the future, but I can't 00:34:02.750 --> 00:34:05.920 guarantee that I can just hope that one day at 00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.400 a time I can continue to see it the way I see 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:11.980 it and it's kind of important to me that I do. 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.380 That takes me to my next question because I've 00:34:15.380 --> 00:34:18.739 watched you, I've watched this journey for nearly 00:34:18.739 --> 00:34:23.150 three decades. And from your perspective, how 00:34:23.150 --> 00:34:27.670 has the Lord's healing extended beyond you, like 00:34:27.670 --> 00:34:32.030 into our marriage and our family and even into 00:34:32.030 --> 00:34:37.389 church and friends and associates that you associate 00:34:37.389 --> 00:34:42.190 with? Even into work. I mean, that's another, 00:34:42.630 --> 00:34:45.929 that's a lot of questions. I mean, because I've 00:34:45.929 --> 00:34:50.349 given you a lot to think about. How I mean how 00:34:50.349 --> 00:34:54.150 has the Lord healing? How has the Lord's healing? 00:34:55.090 --> 00:35:01.150 extended beyond just you I I Believe that's how 00:35:01.150 --> 00:35:04.429 the Lord all the Lord's healing works. I believe 00:35:04.429 --> 00:35:09.150 that when he heals Many are healed or potentially 00:35:09.150 --> 00:35:15.679 can be right. I know that I have a Have kids 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:17.980 right now in recovery who are going through the 00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:21.059 steps four of them four of our kids are in recovery 00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:23.559 and have sponsors and are going through the steps 00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:25.860 and and I know that what I know what they're 00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:28.719 working the steps is doing for this dad You know, 00:35:28.780 --> 00:35:31.719 so maybe there's that maybe there's a little 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.039 hope maybe that breathes a little less worry 00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:38.159 and to parents and others who love you and Etc, 00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:39.920 but then there's there. There's the other thing 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:43.519 though to Deb and it's like when I first got 00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:46.280 sober Didn't need somebody telling me how to 00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:49.380 get sober. I needed somebody to show me how they 00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:53.480 got sober. Yeah and That's how this thing works, 00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.340 you know back in the 30s 1930s when Bill Wilson 00:35:57.340 --> 00:36:01.500 and dr. Bob Put this that put the alcoholics 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:04.420 anonymous together. What a story What what a 00:36:04.420 --> 00:36:07.340 divine intervention and the direction of the 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:11.579 spirit and so much just absolutely undeniable 00:36:12.429 --> 00:36:14.690 direction from from Heavenly Father. But you 00:36:14.690 --> 00:36:18.010 know, that's that's how they did this. They had 00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:20.590 talked to Dr. Silkworth, they had talked to other 00:36:20.590 --> 00:36:27.139 prominent psychologists, et cetera, from all 00:36:27.139 --> 00:36:30.619 over the world, very prominent ones, who were 00:36:30.619 --> 00:36:33.960 just baffled about this thing, alcoholism. But 00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:36.659 then they found, and they were directed by Heavenly 00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:39.280 Father to do it, they found that the only way 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.800 that it would work is if they helped each other. 00:36:42.139 --> 00:36:45.579 Service. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't telling them 00:36:45.579 --> 00:36:47.139 what to do, it was showing them what we could 00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:49.889 do together. Telling them what worked for you 00:36:49.889 --> 00:36:52.369 and what, yeah. Experience, strength and hope. 00:36:52.550 --> 00:36:56.050 Yeah, the guys that sponsored me stayed sober 00:36:56.050 --> 00:37:00.070 by sponsoring me. I stay sober today by helping 00:37:00.070 --> 00:37:05.090 others to achieve sobriety. You know, and that's 00:37:05.090 --> 00:37:09.769 our primary purpose in AA is to just help others 00:37:09.769 --> 00:37:12.510 and ourselves to achieve sobriety. And I think 00:37:12.510 --> 00:37:15.760 this goes beyond. like just recovery because 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:18.500 I've seen you in the workplace. You belong to 00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:21.460 a group at work. Yeah. You want to tell us a 00:37:21.460 --> 00:37:24.139 little bit about that and how that came about? 00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:25.980 Because I think that's pretty awesome too. I 00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:29.880 live pretty transparent. with my addiction and 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:34.320 stuff. If you have friends that are recovering 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.480 alcoholics and addicts and they don't, don't 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.539 criticize them for that. It's a different path 00:37:38.539 --> 00:37:42.179 for each of us. My path is one of transparency. 00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.239 If you know me, if you meet me, if we have any 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:47.900 time together, pretty soon you're gonna know 00:37:47.900 --> 00:37:49.900 that I'm a recovering alcoholic and what that 00:37:49.900 --> 00:37:51.599 means to me. It's just how it is. And that you 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.579 do a podcast about... The Atonement of Jesus 00:37:54.579 --> 00:37:56.199 Christ. That comes out of your mouth just as 00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:58.139 often as I'm a recovering alcoholic. Because 00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:02.260 I want to testify of the hope that ... I could 00:38:02.260 --> 00:38:06.079 care less about promoting this podcast. I care 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.619 deeply about promoting the hope that comes from 00:38:08.619 --> 00:38:11.980 Jesus Christ and Him crucified. So tell us about 00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:16.059 your work. So I'm having a conversation with 00:38:16.059 --> 00:38:19.039 a person at work and I work for a very large 00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:25.170 company. And it's quite a liberal company in 00:38:25.170 --> 00:38:29.570 many respects. But anyway, this lady was telling 00:38:29.570 --> 00:38:32.210 me that they had gotten permission to hold a 00:38:32.210 --> 00:38:35.369 group of Christians that would meet on every, 00:38:35.369 --> 00:38:38.590 I think the paces, every three weeks. And I was 00:38:38.590 --> 00:38:41.719 invited. To become a part of this, you know, 00:38:41.719 --> 00:38:44.440 she knows that we teach Institute at BYU. She 00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.400 knows that we're Members of the Church of Jesus 00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:49.780 Christ of Latter -day Saints and you know and 00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:54.400 all of that and but I was invited because You 00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.820 know, I I was I don't remember how it got brought 00:38:57.820 --> 00:39:00.599 up But it got brought up my recovery got brought 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.079 up and and she says how do you stay sober? And 00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:07.769 I said through Jesus Christ and He's my higher 00:39:07.769 --> 00:39:10.349 power. And we were talking about this. Anyway, 00:39:10.510 --> 00:39:12.769 long story short, I'm the only member of the 00:39:12.769 --> 00:39:16.349 church that's a part of this group. We meet together, 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:20.550 have great discussions about raising the awareness 00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:23.550 and the love that Jesus has for us. And every 00:39:23.550 --> 00:39:26.269 once in a while, I quote out of the Book of Mormon. 00:39:27.050 --> 00:39:28.849 And they all want to copy. And they love it. 00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:30.989 They do. They want to know where you're getting 00:39:30.989 --> 00:39:33.829 your information. That's right. Yeah. I just 00:39:33.829 --> 00:39:38.599 think it's awesome how you bravely share. Like 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:41.699 you're not afraid to talk to somebody in the 00:39:41.699 --> 00:39:45.480 line at the grocery store. Or if we're at a concert, 00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:48.159 you start talking to somebody we're standing 00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:52.440 by or sitting by. Or somebody on the airplane. 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.300 How many times have you shared, not just that 00:39:55.300 --> 00:39:57.400 you're a recovering alcoholic, but also that 00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.099 you do a podcast about the atonement of Jesus 00:40:00.099 --> 00:40:03.440 Christ? I mean, I just think that's so commendable. 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:07.639 That's missionary work. That's the gathering. 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.780 That's the piece that it's like. And not all 00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:12.139 of us are that brave. I'm just going to say that 00:40:12.139 --> 00:40:15.440 out loud. Well, thanks, I guess. You're just 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:18.719 very brave. There's maybe a reason for that. 00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:21.519 You know, I think that my personality is just 00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:24.400 kind of that way anyway. I'm pretty outgoing 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:26.940 and gregarious. That's why I'm good at what I 00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:29.340 do. I can be on a stage in front of hundreds 00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.260 or thousands of people and do well with my work 00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:37.360 in that regard, right? But that's not why. I 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:42.679 think that... I just burn inside so deeply with 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:48.320 the desire to spread the hope of Christ's atonement 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:50.460 and the joy that can come from Christ's atonement 00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:53.079 to everybody. We all hurt. We all have pain. 00:40:53.500 --> 00:40:56.559 We're all dealing with something. We're all carrying 00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.820 our own cross. We're all traveling our own via 00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:02.340 de la Rosa. You know, we're all all of those 00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:06.489 things. But if but if I can like somebody else 00:41:06.489 --> 00:41:08.590 did for me, I'm just feel like I'm just trying 00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:12.250 to pay back You know somebody breathed hope into 00:41:12.250 --> 00:41:15.050 me one day without that. Hope. I don't know that 00:41:15.050 --> 00:41:17.730 I would be here I'm pretty sure I wouldn't and 00:41:17.730 --> 00:41:20.409 I would be a sad memory and my parents for my 00:41:20.409 --> 00:41:22.210 parents and I would be a sad memory even for 00:41:22.210 --> 00:41:24.809 my kids and those kinds of things but because 00:41:24.809 --> 00:41:28.530 somebody had the ability and the courage to to 00:41:28.530 --> 00:41:33.699 breathe hope into me one day I I I feel Obligated 00:41:33.699 --> 00:41:37.860 I feel like it's my duty to breathe at least 00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:40.019 give people an opportunity and I don't I try 00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:43.800 not to be preachy I try not to But but you know 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.119 in alcoholics anonymous we have a saying that 00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:49.579 we practice these principles in all of our affairs 00:41:49.579 --> 00:41:52.940 And I do try to practice all these principles 00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:55.920 in all my affairs and my affairs are all my affairs 00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:57.800 But then the other thing is is that we remember 00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:00.659 that it's the spirit of attraction rather than 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:04.679 promotion Maybe this is your senior moment to 00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.420 get your duty to God. Yeah. That's kind of a 00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:11.139 cool way to look at it because, you know, you 00:42:11.139 --> 00:42:14.420 talk about checkboxes, but now you have a heart 00:42:14.420 --> 00:42:18.940 that is in this relationship with Heavenly Father 00:42:18.940 --> 00:42:22.159 and Jesus Christ. that it's like, I want to do 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.619 your work. I want to breathe hope into these 00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:27.440 people that felt the same pain that I felt these 00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:31.239 and and let people know that you're not alone 00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:33.679 and you don't have to do this alone. That there 00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:36.639 is a solution. Yeah. And it works if you work 00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.900 it. Throw that in. Yeah. That's another thing 00:42:40.900 --> 00:42:43.760 we say. You know, Deb, I think if we probably 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.219 need to wrap up. But if I was if I were to say 00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:49.980 there's one thing that I wish that I could relieve 00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:53.929 from people who are struggling, it would be shame. 00:42:55.409 --> 00:42:57.730 We should feel no shame in this. Heavenly Father's 00:42:57.730 --> 00:43:00.750 not mad at us. He's not surprised by this. He 00:43:00.750 --> 00:43:03.610 understands the conditions that we are responding 00:43:03.610 --> 00:43:07.889 to that creates the need for us to change the 00:43:07.889 --> 00:43:09.610 way we feel and the way that we've done it. And 00:43:09.610 --> 00:43:12.929 I'm not making excuses. I'm not on Satan's errand 00:43:12.929 --> 00:43:16.969 when I'm saying this. I am telling the world 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.400 that Heavenly Father is not surprised when we 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.800 struggle. This is the fall of Adam and Eve. It 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.840 either is or it isn't. Yeah, and we're all in 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:28.159 a fallen world. And it's fallen. It is or it 00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:30.539 isn't. It is. It's fallen. And because it's fallen, 00:43:30.619 --> 00:43:32.719 I'm fallen. Because I'm fallen, transgression 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:35.719 is going to separate me from Him too. And when 00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:38.679 separation comes by way of transgression, I have 00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:41.119 a way to close that gap through the atonement 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:43.599 of Jesus Christ, through His atoning sacrifice, 00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.820 through the blessings that come by way of compensatory 00:43:46.820 --> 00:43:49.920 enabling and redeeming blessings. And I'm so 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.559 grateful to know that today. I was just going 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:56.260 to ask, what would you say to people that feels 00:43:56.260 --> 00:43:59.539 trapped by addiction shame or fear or discouragement 00:43:59.539 --> 00:44:02.699 yeah just don't give up hope yeah yeah just don't 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:05.760 give up hope and be open and put yourself in 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.780 positions and places and respond when you feel 00:44:08.780 --> 00:44:12.639 an urge respond to it when you feel a prompting 00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:16.420 respond to it you just never know you just never 00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:19.360 know i received an urge i received a prompting 00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:24.230 deb when i was blackout almost drunk And that 00:44:24.230 --> 00:44:29.829 was that night on October 24th, 1998 when I was 00:44:29.829 --> 00:44:33.050 trying to drink myself to death. I received it 00:44:33.050 --> 00:44:37.429 even there. Yeah. In the darkest places he comes 00:44:37.429 --> 00:44:40.090 to us. Yeah. So what does it mean to you today 00:44:40.090 --> 00:44:43.429 to be redeemed one day at a time? When I think 00:44:43.429 --> 00:44:45.289 about the word redeemed and we've talked about 00:44:45.289 --> 00:44:48.590 this and I'm not just regurgitating what we've 00:44:48.590 --> 00:44:50.849 talked about for the sake of regurgitation. I'm 00:44:50.849 --> 00:44:53.969 saying this because it means this to me. When 00:44:53.969 --> 00:44:58.889 I think of redeemed I think of His body bruised 00:44:58.889 --> 00:45:02.369 and broken for my sake I think of him falling 00:45:02.369 --> 00:45:04.929 on his face in the Garden of Gethsemane I think 00:45:04.929 --> 00:45:08.369 about the hemahydrosis that caused him to bleed 00:45:08.369 --> 00:45:14.289 from literally every pore Not not it not as Some 00:45:14.289 --> 00:45:17.130 of our other Christian friends see it where he 00:45:17.130 --> 00:45:19.429 sweat as though it were great drops of blood 00:45:19.429 --> 00:45:23.309 from the Book of Mormon we know He bled from 00:45:23.309 --> 00:45:27.090 every pore. And he went through the press three 00:45:27.090 --> 00:45:30.210 times. He went through the press in Gethsemane 00:45:30.210 --> 00:45:32.369 three times, and then he hung on the cross and 00:45:32.369 --> 00:45:35.829 suffered according to apostles and prophets in 00:45:35.829 --> 00:45:40.050 modern revelation. He suffered Gethsemane intensified. 00:45:41.070 --> 00:45:43.789 And while he was there, his father even left 00:45:43.789 --> 00:45:46.250 him. You know, he's asking his father, father, 00:45:46.329 --> 00:45:48.590 if it be possible, let this cup pass from me, 00:45:48.590 --> 00:45:51.809 please. But nevertheless, not my will, but thine 00:45:51.809 --> 00:45:55.170 be done. He was willing to subject his will to 00:45:55.170 --> 00:45:58.489 the Father because I would need him to someday. 00:45:59.869 --> 00:46:02.449 And he did it for me. He did it for you. He did 00:46:02.449 --> 00:46:05.570 it for everybody. I know as sure as I'm sitting 00:46:05.570 --> 00:46:08.710 here and drawing breath that he suffered for 00:46:08.710 --> 00:46:12.150 my infirmities. He suffered for my inequalities. 00:46:12.949 --> 00:46:17.619 He suffered for my transgression. He suffered 00:46:17.619 --> 00:46:21.460 for every part of me that's fallen. He knows 00:46:21.460 --> 00:46:25.440 what it feels like to be where I've been. And 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.059 I know that because I have spent time getting 00:46:28.059 --> 00:46:31.079 to know him so that I could know that about him. 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:33.619 And as I've gotten to know that about him, his 00:46:33.619 --> 00:46:37.719 love for me has become so undeniable that I literally 00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:41.400 find myself in a posture of trying to become 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.860 more like him on a more consistent basis. And 00:46:44.860 --> 00:46:49.659 to me, Deb, That's recovery That's recovery not 00:46:49.659 --> 00:46:52.440 just from alcoholism Not just from addiction 00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.579 drug addiction or any of the other things that's 00:46:55.579 --> 00:46:59.880 recovery from the fallenness that we all feel 00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:05.400 That's absolutely beautiful and absolutely true 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:08.800 I Love when we get to reflect on that know the 00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:12.139 sacramental hymns that we seen before we renew 00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:16.300 our covenants with him Think of the broken brews 00:47:16.300 --> 00:47:24.519 torn bread and as As we see those Pieces of bread 00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:27.280 that are all broken differently. We're all broken 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:31.860 differently But he and only he and through him 00:47:31.860 --> 00:47:36.239 Can we partake of him and his precious atonement? 00:47:36.900 --> 00:47:40.860 To be healed. That's so beautiful. I love that. 00:47:41.239 --> 00:47:47.780 I Love you I love you, too. Well, I kind of knew 00:47:47.780 --> 00:47:50.679 we were going to do that today, but I didn't 00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:52.440 know it would be quite like that. Thanks, Dub, 00:47:52.460 --> 00:47:56.780 for for making sure we did that. It's an honor. 00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.289 It has been kind of. You know, we've gone through 00:48:01.289 --> 00:48:03.909 this for a few years and it just hasn't occurred 00:48:03.909 --> 00:48:06.489 to me, you know. You know, I talk about my alcoholism 00:48:06.489 --> 00:48:08.389 and I talk about this and that, but I've never 00:48:08.389 --> 00:48:11.409 really gotten in. And we just barely scratched 00:48:11.409 --> 00:48:13.269 the surface of my story. I don't really, the 00:48:13.269 --> 00:48:15.730 story's not what's important. It's the solution 00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:19.510 that's important. But, you know, I earned my 00:48:19.510 --> 00:48:22.789 way to the solution. Yeah, you know and I know 00:48:22.789 --> 00:48:24.530 that I'm not alone and I know that there are 00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:27.429 people out there who are feeling the same Types 00:48:27.429 --> 00:48:30.050 of things and if you're feeling that please please 00:48:30.050 --> 00:48:35.360 please please Please turn to him He knows he's 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.760 not mad at you. He's not surprised by any of 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:40.019 this. He's just waiting literally just waiting 00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:42.760 as we close today I just want to remind you that 00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:44.960 wherever you are and however you're feeling you're 00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:47.920 welcome here More importantly, you're welcome 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:50.059 to be at the feet of Jesus He isn't just waiting 00:48:50.059 --> 00:48:52.239 for you to clean everything up before you come 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:56.219 to him. He wants you now And he meets us in the 00:48:56.219 --> 00:49:00.269 middle of our mess our dark lonely disparaging, 00:49:00.269 --> 00:49:03.769 painful mess. That's where His grace literally 00:49:03.769 --> 00:49:06.769 shines the brightest. So come as you are, broken, 00:49:07.170 --> 00:49:10.489 torn, hopeful, questioning, searching. You truly 00:49:10.489 --> 00:49:13.190 are not alone. And I think that's our biggest 00:49:13.190 --> 00:49:16.190 goal here is to make sure that nobody feels that 00:49:16.190 --> 00:49:21.449 aloneness that we felt, we have all felt, but 00:49:21.449 --> 00:49:23.960 you're not alone. Yeah. We are not alone. No, 00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:26.179 in fact, we want to stay connected with you. 00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:28.380 Please reach out if you have questions, if you 00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:31.440 just need somebody to reach out to. I mentioned 00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:35.159 last week that we pray for you. If you want us 00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.300 to pray for you by name and situation, please 00:49:37.300 --> 00:49:39.219 let us know that as well. We do have a prayer 00:49:39.219 --> 00:49:42.579 list that, you know, it's kind of important to 00:49:42.579 --> 00:49:44.460 us. And so if you'd like to be a part of that, 00:49:44.500 --> 00:49:48.179 that'd be awesome. You can reach us at heredeemsusatgmail 00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:52.530 .com. And if this episode touched your heart 00:49:52.530 --> 00:49:55.190 or it made you think of somebody else, we hope 00:49:55.190 --> 00:49:58.090 you'll share it with somebody that needs a little 00:49:58.090 --> 00:50:00.530 more hope right now. Maybe someone you love, 00:50:00.670 --> 00:50:03.170 a friend, a family member, anyone that could 00:50:03.170 --> 00:50:06.409 just use a little more hope and just know that 00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:09.130 they're not alone. Next week we'll talk about 00:50:09.130 --> 00:50:12.800 something else. I think we're done with our events 00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:17.300 of October. Yeah, I think that we'll... Halloween's 00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:19.960 coming, but that's not... We'll move into other 00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:22.219 aspects of Christ's atonement. Maybe we'll talk 00:50:22.219 --> 00:50:25.199 about instruments of grace, the importance of 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:28.260 and how to maintain relationship with the Holy 00:50:28.260 --> 00:50:30.280 Ghost so that we can feel the atonement of Christ 00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.599 in our lives all the time. Friends, thanks for 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.519 being with us. And remember, there's always hope 00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:40.889 through Him. Because we and you have been redeemed 00:50:40.889 --> 00:50:43.309 through his blood. Thanks for being with us everybody. 00:50:43.429 --> 00:50:45.130 We'll see you next time