Hey there everybody, it's Scott before we get
to rolling with today's episode. I just wanted
to pause for a second You know it's been a few
weeks since we released last between personal
technical issues surgeries help things going
on family stuff going on and Million other things
work etc. We just needed a little bit of extra
time You know, like many of you, though, our
hearts have been tender with all that's been
happening lately from, you know, the passing
of our beloved prophet to the heartbreaking tragedy
in Detroit to the wonderful. elation that we've
felt as we worshiped over conference weekend.
You know, as we've reflected on these events,
we've really been impressed to reshare a conversation
that means a great deal to us. This is an interview
from season one originally released in July of
2022 done by myself and David, my original partner
in this project. This was with our friend Nate
Moller. This is a powerful, powerful reminder
of how the atonement of Jesus Christ can lift
us and strengthen us through some of the most
difficult and some of the most uncertain times
in our lives. We hope that this brings you the
same peace and encouragement that it brings us
and that it has brought so many others already.
Thank you for your faith. Thank you for your
prayers and your patience. We'll be back with
new episodes very soon. Until then, enjoy the
episode. So I'm going to have Dave go ahead and
introduce Nate. Nate Moeller will be our guest
today. So I'm going to go ahead and turn the
time to Dave, let him take it from there for
just a few minutes. Well Nathan and I met in
an institute class. Nathan, how long ago has
that been? I was thinking about that just yesterday.
I think it's been about 12 years. 12 years ago.
It's been a minute. Yeah, it was pretty early
when I had just, I think it had only been a year
or two that I had designed the course on repentance
and forgiveness. And you saw the course on a
class offering of Utah Valley University Institute
of Religion. and came into the class, we met,
I don't know, there was a feeling, I know on
my part, towards you immediately, and we developed
this relationship. I think you actually took
the course, how many times? It was so fun that
you took it multiple times, two or three? I don't
remember. I just know that that first time I
took Institute I walked into one class and I
just didn't I just wasn't feeling it and then
I went to another class and it was yours and
then I just Followed you around and took all
your classes. I don't I don't know but that was
that was a And some of your classes were repeats
and I was old enough at that point that I don't
even think I was allowed to be an Institute but
you let me keep coming so Well, it was a lot
So anyway, you took you took some courses and
and I remember you I still remember I have a
vision of of you sitting in the class absorbing
all this and after a class Or two you you kind
of helped me teach some of these principles Nathan
to other students that were in the class I remember
you were you were more than willing Let's see,
how old were you when you took that course? Probably,
well, 27, 28, 29 in there. Yeah, you were a little
older than the other Utah Valley students, I
remember. And your experiences, I recall, were
a great blessing. extreme blessing to those who
were in the class. I just kind of saw you as
helping me to co -teach that class. You had had
those experiences. You had related to it. You
had applied the principles the first time that
you took the course. Anyway, you were awesome
the first time you took the course. Your life
was already pretty well established, and you
were well on your way to full conversion, but
I think there were things that happened in the
class that helped to strengthen that, weren't
there? Yeah, I had a lot of questions still during
that class. I think the first time I took it,
we were only a year out from going to the temple
the first time, my wife and I. And I still had
a lot of questions about the repentance process
that I had gone through. I had been in a disciplinary
council and all of those things. And so I had
a lot of questions still about how it worked
and if I really was worthy to be where I was.
And that class just helped connect a lot of dots
and helped me to understand things a lot more
thoroughly. I think that ultimately was a lot
of what I was looking for was why I went to institute
in the first place just because I had you know,
the information. I had the gospel, but I just
didn't have enough understanding to go along
with it, so it definitely helped for sure. Yeah,
well, anyway, and we've had a sweet relationship
and friendship ever since. Nate, why don't you
just kind of help us to introduce you by telling
us about your situation. You're married with
six children. This is your second marriage, right?
Yep. Yep. This is my second marriage. My two
oldest kids are from my first marriage. Okay.
Tell us, just tell us a little bit about your
family. Let's see. My wife and I, we've been
married. We just celebrated 13 years, which isn't
a lot, but It feels like a lot. I've known her
since I was nine and she was two. That's a whole
story in and of itself. My oldest daughter will
be, well, she's 19. She'll be 20 in November.
We have a 17 -year -old, a 14 -year -old, 12
-year -old, 10 -year -old, and an eight -year
-old. My wife and I are both teachers. We love
it. We live in Spanish Fork. That's in Utah and
we just I don't know. We just we just love it
our family and our life It's just it's awesome.
So how how long did your first marriage last
nathan? Uh Let's see About it last it lasted
five years four years. I mean We got separated
after four years. I think it was and then Our
divorce wasn't final Until two years after that
so on paper. It was six years, but Well, I I
know that We've talked a little bit about that
in the past I remember and some of the lessons
that you learned from that and Maybe just a little
bit so our listeners can understand and appreciate
this part of your life Nathan is that your extended
family is I know really important to you And
just tell us a little bit about your parents
and the situation there that has had such a tremendous
impact on your life. Well, I think, first off,
like my parents, my birth parents, my mom, my
dad, when they got married, like my mom was 16
when I was born and my dad was 18, 19. So my
parents were really young and they did the best
that they could, but they got divorced when I
was in third grade. And then my mom got remarried
and then divorced again and then remarried one
last time. So my dad was always kind of there,
but he worked a lot and was single for most of
those teenage years for me. When my mom married
my my latest and last well, she's married again,
but When she married his name is Cory when she
married Cory, I was 12 and she was married to
him until I was 30 and then he he died he was
killed but That was that it was honestly it was
rough because him and I actually didn't get along
until after he died now I feel like I'm closer
to him now more than I ever was during in life.
So He was my dad, but I didn't realize how much
of a dad he was to me until he died. Nate, we're
going to talk about that too. We're going to
have you, not at this point, but at any point,
we're going to have you talk about that experience
with your dad, Corey, and the situation there.
You know, there's been just an awful lot so far
that you've talked about, you know, your family.
Everything seems like it was pretty standard,
Nate. you know, except for a few divorces. I
mean, you know, but that's not all that uncommon
in today's world, right? My kids have gone through
those experiences and you've gone through those
experiences as a kid. Dave's had the experience
from being able to counsel with and see a lot
of this because of his leadership positions and
so forth in the church. which gives him a great
perspective on that front. But you know, from
a third grade kid, how old are you in third grade?
Eight, nine, somewhere in that neighborhood to
have parents going through what they must have
been going through that had to create some kind
of feelings of confusion, maybe fear, maybe,
I don't know. How would you describe that at
that time? Well, so back then, I mean everything
seemed normal and I remember thinking I knew
that there were problems, but I didn't really
know what they were But you start to get this
sense of like, okay, it's mom versus dad I have
to like mom over dad or I have to like dad over
mom and I don't know if my parents I mean, I
don't think they would intentionally play us
against each other or play us against one another
but That's what it was like and I was the oldest
I'm still the oldest and I had two younger siblings
and So my parents, you know, though it seemed
normal my parents were always at work So I was
often alone taking care of my siblings Like I
said, they did the best that they could but It
was rough. Like I I don't know. I just kind of
had the sense that I was like another parent
like I was just a babysitter so My parents wouldn't
get home till late. They would be in bed early
in the morning or go to work early in the morning
and I'd get my siblings up and send them to school.
And most of the time, at least that's how I remembered
it. So I remember being home in the summertime
with my siblings. We'd leave my little brother
home or my little brother would go to a sitter
and my middle brother, he's just a few years
younger than I, we would... walk to the Provo
pool and just be there all day long. That's just
where we lived. I'm sure to a lot of people,
it just looked like we didn't have parents, but
it was hard, but it led to a lot of frustration.
It led to a lot of anger for me. I used to take
it out on my siblings. Yeah, tell me tell me
about the frustration talk to me about the frustration
and the anger maybe And and how that carried
into not just so at eight and nine I mean you're
getting some of this going on Things couldn't
have been perfect prior to that or mom and dad
wouldn't have got a divorce in the first place
and there may have been Some confusion that you
weren't even able to articulate at that young
age, perhaps But as things progressed for you
in your life and you moved from, you know, pre
adolescent to adolescent to your pre teens to
your teenage years, even into high school and
your early adulthood, kind of just give us an
overview of what it was like for you and emphasize
those things that really led to your wandering
away from anything that was like the atonement
of Jesus Christ, for example. Well, my parents
were part of the church before they divorced
I remember getting baptized And so up until that
point I was part of the church after my parents
divorced My mom was remarried. So Nate, let me
pause you right there. When you say I was part
of the church at eight, what does that look like?
By record only? Or were you participating and
going to primary and Sunday school and activities
and all those things? What was that like? Yeah,
I remember I remember going I remember being
there I remember Young well, I would say young
men young women leaders, but that wasn't what
they were yet, right? They were primary leaders
Bringing me I still have a I have a book that
one of my primary leaders wrote in when I got
baptized so like I there was enough of Participation
that they were trying but now that I'm you know
in the church, you know strongly now Maybe it
maybe we were less active. I don't know because
I remember getting extra attention from them
Which usually means they're trying to get us
to come back. So I don't remember for sure, right?
but you do know you did grow up having some familiarity
with the workings with even the The culture and
even the spirit around all of it. It sounds like
yeah So it sounds like that you weren't just
left Wander. Yeah, just left to wander spiritually
even at that young age. There was some direction
obviously probably very confused because it was
meeting against a home front that was incongruent
with all of that. And so what was happening inside
of you when this was all going on? So after they
got divorced, it was just more of like, well,
we don't go to church anymore. That was just
kind of the expectation. I had friends that went
and so I would go and hang out. I remember being
in Scouts, but it wasn't. We didn't go to church.
My dad didn't go to church so that wasn't pushed.
So at the time of the divorce, my time without
the church kind of began because we weren't a
part of it. Right. But I will say one of my earliest
memories is actually being in primary. And I
remember I was a sunbeam. And I remember singing,
I am a child of God. And I didn't really understand
the impact of that. But having that song in my
mind throughout those years, and even knowing
at some point somewhere I am a child of God,
that was a big... It focused me a lot. It helped
me to at least have some kind of semblance of
something. I didn't understand it until later,
but that helped a ton. But my whole teenage years,
we didn't have any of that. My mom, the guy she
married... He he drank a lot and for and I know
I'm not I don't want to like my mom did her best
Like I said, I'm not trying to badmouth her or
anything. But in that in that marriage, I mean
it was two years Roughly, you know, we would
my brothers and I would get beat by him My you
know, my mom was getting abused by him as well
And that's really where my anger and start and
everything really started was I mean I had siblings
always following me around But then after I was
getting beat That would turn up a me showing
anger and frustration at school and even more
so to my brothers in my neighborhood Things like
that. I was I was a rough kid Those early years
in school fourth fifth sixth grade. I remember
I I taped a needle like a sewing needle to my
teacher's chair Which to me as a teacher now
to call that's a scream for help, you know, but
I I was Was I was screaming for help, but I didn't
know it and I don't know if anybody else knew
I was rough I was a rough kid because of that
So as you were experiencing all of this, and
so far we're still in elementary school, it sounds
like, as you experience all of this and you move
into your adolescent years, you know, we go through
changes in our body, we go through changes in
our association with other people, etc. How were
these things beginning to, and when I say these
things, what I'm referring to specifically is
how did the dark things in your life, how were
they becoming more and more prevalent? were they
becoming more and more prevalent? Were you at
some point beginning to find ways to kind of
cope with the feelings that you were having?
And if so, what were the ways that you were doing
that? How were you coping with the confusion,
the anger, the fear, the absolute? To be abused
and to... be watching your mom or knowing that
your mom's being abused. That's just something
nobody should ever have to go through. But you
nonetheless did. And so how was that? I mean,
what were some of the ways that your frustration,
your anxiety, all of the other adjectives that
I could use and none of them would be adequate.
I get it. But how were all of those things beginning
to manifest themselves? Really I I Didn't know
how I just acted out. I got in fights at school.
I would steal things I would I mean that went
all the way up until I was a young adult. I mean,
you know meaning in my 20s I Had no idea You
know what I was doing. I just did things I had
people around that were not good kids. Like I
remember in elementary school I had a kid pull
a gun on me in elementary school Yeah, yeah Because
I was really mean to one of his friends So he
brought a gun to school and put a gun to my head
and said that if I wasn't nice to his friend
He'd kill me. I don't know if my mom knows that
but that happened just in Provo I just I mean
it just shows like I just I just acted I just
did whatever I wanted right and then to heck
with what anybody thought or felt I just I just
was what I was and that was that was the problem.
I was lightning without a rod. I guess if you
say like I just I wasn't focused. I just did
whatever I wanted. Yeah, I like that analogy.
You were you were how old when you got married
nate? Uh, we got married. I was I was 20 or 19.
Okay, so almost 20. Okay married married for
a few years. Uh What was kind of the the depth
of darkness that you experienced in those years?
the depth of your darkness. How far... Honestly,
the first thing that comes to mind is probably
before my marriage, right around that, you know,
mission -age time. You know, I... Because when
my mom married Corey, I got to go back to church
a little bit. And so when I got to that mission
-age, there was always... there was a question.
I remember a bishop asking, are you gonna go
on a mission? I think the depths of everything
really started when I made the choice of Do I
want to go on a mission or do I want this girlfriend
I have? and for Fear that she why knew she wouldn't
wait for me and I guess for my lack of understanding
I chose Her instead of a mission that being said,
I'm so glad I have my children and I wouldn't
I wouldn't give them up now But I chose, you
know My children basically chose my girlfriend
over a mission and then we got married so that
really I think probably started a lot of things
I Tried, you know, I remember when we got married.
We tried to go to church and it just didn't work
And so after about a year and a half we stopped
going And then from there, that's where it really
fell apart I had drank alcohol and and done a
few drugs here and there throughout my teenage
years And I didn't the first year and a half
but after the first year and a half of my marriage
It just didn't it just fell apart from there.
I became I wasn't an alcoholic yet. I don't think
but I drank a lot recreationally for fun, I guess
she started doing that too and we just You know
our marriage really just didn't have a focus
We were just married and I guess maybe at that
point the focus was we're married for our kids,
you know Like there wasn't anything else to it
So your life at that point really started to
unravel and maybe even things in your past and
maybe hers as well began to kind of be exposed.
And so what was kind of your rock bottom and
what got your attention to start coming back?
Well, my rock bottom didn't really happen until
we were separated. So I think that started me
on the path to take me to rock bottom. So when
we were separated You know, she left and we had
bought a house and we were selling it and the
kids were at my house I mean like she didn't
have anywhere to go yet So she would come and
sleep on the couch of that house and I would
sleep upstairs until we sold it So I mean it
was it was in the best we could with what we
had but it was Dysfunctional to say the least
and it made it hard. So I just that's when I
really started drinking. I remember spending
I was spending probably six to seven hundred
dollars a month at least on alcohol just for
myself So just to be clear Nate at this point
you have two children I have two they were both
little let's see how old Five and five and two
three under five got it. Yeah. Yeah So we sold
the house I moved into an apartment and I just
I just drank and Partied and I put the kids in
the bed and then after the kids went to bed I
do whatever, at nighttime. So, you know, almost
two years of that, I came to a point where it
was like, okay, I don't like the way that my
life is going. There were two guys that were
living in the same area as me who were kind of
in the same boat. They were both, you know, drinking,
partying, those kinds of things. And the one
guy was really, really not doing well. He was
You know pretty dark and that kind of took my
thoughts to some darker places And right around
that time I started to have these suicidal thoughts
and tendencies come around like look I'm not
doing anything for anybody. Like what's the point?
What am I what am I really doing here? I've you
know, basically I come to the realization that
I had failed like my life had failed the way
that I was living wasn't a way to live So what's
the point? Why should I keep going and? When
I decided that I you know what I'm done. I'm
gonna kill myself. There's no reason to keep
going that was really probably about the As rock
bottom as it got well as I was driving out to
my parents house to go and get a gun that I knew
my dad left in a covered in the garage. That
was probably about my rock bottom. Let me just
go back because there's a couple of things that
I want to emphasize about what you're talking
about. I want to get to where you're headed with
your rock bottom story. But prior to that, were
there... Were there inklings? Did you ever have
ideologies prior to this date of perhaps ending
your own life? Was it a fleeting thought from
time to time? Was it something that you had seriously
contemplated? You just mentioned that you were
going over to your dad's and there was a gun
there and we can all imagine where we're going
with this, but had these thoughts come to your
mind before or was this first time ever? Well,
um, I I had thought that from time to time when
I was younger as well I mean there were a lot
of really hard times growing up So you were no
stranger to despair at any point so far in your
story here Despair had been throughout your life.
It sounds like Well, I was I was an angry angry
person. Yeah I mean, I was known for getting
into fights at school. So that was my reputation.
My dad, my stepdad, my dad was a cop. So as you
can imagine, those two things didn't go together
very well. I was also larger than he was and
had a, you know, inflammatory temperament most
of the time. So I spent a lot of time alone.
We also lived in the middle of nowhere We lived
out in the farming community out west of Spanish
Forks So nobody was coming to get me so I was
on the farm alone a lot I remember sleeping in
cars when my parents were mad at me. That's like
it was Yeah, I I had I was alone a lot and so
because of that I thought those things a lot.
Yeah, you know, what's the point? I don't yeah,
nobody cares about me So you're at your dad's
you pull up to your mom and dad's and continue
with that part Yeah, so I I actually didn't quite
get to my parents house. I lived I lived I Don't
know probably five six miles away from where
their house was out in the farm country and I
got probably two -thirds of the way there and
I had this thought of like wait if anything I
do have a reason to live. And then it was about
that moment that my kids' images flashed in my
mind. And I knew I needed to hold on for at least
them. So I slowed my car down, turned around,
and drove back home. And that was probably the
moment where my parabola of being at the very
bottom started to come back up just a little
bit because I decided to turn around. What do
you think was the source of of that thought as
you look back on that? Now Nathan what was kind
of the source of that do you think? Well, I know
what the source was but at that time it was just
a I've got to live for my kids moment, but as
I go along with this I know The best way that
I can explain it is the Savior reached into my
soul and calmed those stormy seas. He calmed
the water. He stopped it. I don't know how else
to explain it. I know that I had gone as far
as I could go, but I couldn't go anymore. And
he stopped it. He saved me. So he gave me the
perspective. To continue on and hope for something
more Nate so many of our listeners Have experienced
or maybe even are experiencing something very
similar Maybe not in terms of the logistical
details of what we're talking about here But
the feelings are not unfamiliar the feelings
of hopelessness the feelings of despair the feelings
of I'm done I just can't keep doing this and
people want to know They're gonna ask why was
Nate blessed? Why was Nathan blessed so much
that he was able to feel Christ's spirit reach
down and your words Pull him out of what's going
on here. So how would you respond to that? Why
were you blessed in this way? What choices had
you made? what things in your life kind of precipitated
this? Was there an event or just a series of
events? So what made your heart available and
open to be receptive to the Spirit of our Heavenly
Father at that point? The first thing that comes
to mind is throughout those years where I didn't
have the church in my life, There was still always
part of me because of the foundation that I didn't
know was important that had been laid. I think
even just from when I was at Sunbeam having that
song, I didn't tell the God. There were moments
where I had been, I remember one night I was
really being maybe more like an Enos moment or
I'm being really just, or a Nephi moment where
my past is just wreaking havoc on me. I don't
have. gospel in my life, but I just Was just
feeling so terrible about what I knew to that
point that I was guilty of So I remember sitting
in my car and I remember praying Probably more
fervently than I ever have and I remember Looking
up and seeing the stars and just a feeling I
had was I'm not alone So I had a few moments
like that throughout those years where even though
I was lost, or at least I think I was, I was
still searching for something. So part of me
had always, I think, I know part of me always
believed, but it just wasn't something that I
had chosen to accept or give place for yet. So
in that moment, when I'm driving out to my parents'
house and my kids' images float in my mind, I
tap back into that, into those feelings of hoping
for something more, I think, and that... sliver
of faith, that sliver of hope. I mean, if you
go to Alma 32, 27, 28, that seed had grown enough,
I think, that the Lord was like, okay, I can
help you now. That's what I think. Okay, so you
turned around. You learned in the Course that
repentance literally means to turn around. So
that was the beginning of you would say turning
around your life and Where did it go from there
Nathan? So from there I drove home and I remember
My brother well, he's my brother on now But my
friend at that point had had come over and I
was trying to explain to him what had happened
and In between Driving home and him coming over.
I had this realization. It was like It was like
God knew that I needed to have a carrot mangled
before me And I mean, you know being separated.
I felt alone. I felt all this despair this image
came into my mind of a woman that I have a girl
that I was supposed to be with and it was my
best friend's sister and I just had this all
-encompassing feeling of She's home supposed
to be with I know it I just I just knew it and
I then tried to explain that to him and he laughed
essentially laughed me the scorn and I had this
Impression, you know, let's open the scriptures
and so I ended up going to ether 1227 which was
when I wrote you guys that initial email And
we well we read part of ether and how it talks
about faith and we got to 1227 So the faith and
then the making weak things become strong It
was as if what I had known or been shown was
then granted for him to be able to see, because
he knew in that moment also that it was true.
And then from then, I just had an upward trajectory.
The Lord was just guiding me beyond what I could
understand. I had something to hope for. Even
though I didn't know that I was going to get
it, I believed it, and I just kind of... you
know, worked toward that. I started going back
to church. I, you know, started hanging around
my parents more. I stopped hanging around bad
friends. Obviously I didn't drink anymore. And
I just started that path of change because I
knew it's like, look, I had tried to live. I
had tried to do it my way and I failed. I failed
to live the way that I wanted to. So there had
to be something else. There had to be a better
way and the better way wasn't my way. It was
his. So I've long felt that the way that I live
now, I'm on his errand. I owe everything I am
to him I Failed and so now I am living a second
life that was granted by him alone And so I just
I feel like I have to do the best that I can
I'm still very flawed, but I try so Well, what's
amazing as you're relating your story? Nathan
what what I think's amazing is that you were
in a really bad place but somehow some way because
of a child hearing or feeling more than hearing
the truth about being a child of God, that when
the Lord gave you an experience, you recognized
it. I'm not sure that you really knew the source
of it, but that you knew that it was God, and
that God knew you, and that God was concerned
about you, and you recognized that and received
it. I think so many times God gives people experiences,
but they failed to either recognize the source
of it or fail to completely receive it. Not only
did you receive it by turning around, by going
back to your children, but you turned to the
Word of the Lord. That's pretty amazing to me,
because I don't think you probably had a lot
of experience with scriptures, but you were led
into the scriptures, and there is a power about
the Word, isn't there? No, there is but I would
say There's a power about it, but there's an
even greater power about it when you choose it
for yourself up to that point I you know, I had
the church in my life on and off but It wasn't
something that I had chosen for myself. Therefore.
I didn't understand what was really happening
So when I went to church, you know as a teen,
you know on and off I Didn't want to go. I didn't
want to be there. I didn't see a point I was
going through the motions, but I never was converted
to it. So I say, you know, I was raised in the
church, but I was converted when I was 27, because
I really didn't choose to be a part of it until
I was about 27, 26, 27. Well, I think there's
a difference, too, Nathan, maybe you can describe
this, of being converted to the church versus
being converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
at that point, your conversion is more to God,
to Jesus Christ, you're beginning to feel the
Spirit, and your real conversion is in developing
a relationship with God and feeling that they
know you and your desire to know them. Is that
right? How would you put that? No, I agree. I
mean, I think the Church is wonderful, but the
reality of it is, and this was said in conference,
and maybe you can tell me who said it, but I
want to say it was like Ballard or something,
but the church is only created for imperfect
people. If we were perfect, we wouldn't need
the church. We would have an understanding and
we would have, you know, the Lord and we wouldn't
need to worry about it. The church is amazing,
but it's just a tool to help us get back to God.
And the connections that you can make with the
Lord, especially which is really cool with our
church is, I mean, you said this in class once.
We aren't all prophets seers and revelators,
but we are all prophets because we can receive
revelation Yeah, I've received lots of different
revelations for myself I seek out understanding
and have questions all the time So that I can
further my understanding and that has to do with
my individual relationship with God And the more
you grow to know him The more you become like
him and the closer you get to him I mean like
it becomes harder and harder and harder to fall
you also brought up in that and it was in conference
too, the story about the two wolves and which
wolf wins, the one that you feed. Well, I mean,
the more I go down this path that I started years
ago, the more that I find myself close to him.
That doesn't mean that I don't have moments where
I feel like I've made an about face and I'm going
the wrong direction. But ultimately, my foundation
is Christ. And because my foundation is Christ,
even when I have hard times, I know that I can't
fall. because He's always there. Yeah, that's
really powerful, Nathan. So, skip a little bit
further ahead from that night that you read,
Ether 1227, and you started to come back, and
you end up marrying your best friend's sister,
who's now your wife, and I know that story, and
I think it's so sacred and so sweet that God
gave you that vision. And and I know it's true
and I know both of you know, it's true And now
you have these children and you're a schoolteacher.
You're a football coach you're doing all of these
things, but so several several years have been
under the bridge since you took the course on
repentance and forgiveness and Just just to remind
you we begin that course as we did this podcast
by the way before I forget You have your own
podcast trying to help youth Some of them may
be going through some of the things you went
through to try to help adolescents. Why don't
you just Before I forget, say something about
your podcast. Well, ours is called, what do we
even call it? Teen Advice Stuff You Really Wanna
Hear. Say it again? Teen Advice Stuff You Really
Wanna Hear. That's the name of the podcast. We
just, yeah, my wife and I do it just trying to
take the perspective of teachers, and I mean,
you know, my wife's story, and her experiences
in life, ironically enough, are very similar
to my own. And the fact that she was even able
to pray and get an answer that she was supposed
to marry me is a testament to the things that
she'd been through and learned that God is there.
Anyway, all of those things and the fact that
we teach, we try to help kids get through this
time. We were really diligent with it for a while
and then school started and we stopped. We tried
to start it again this summer and then I mean
we've been so busy, but I mean it's still there
We have about 20 episodes that are on So for
those for those who want to know it's called
stuff you really want to know teen advice and
it's by Oh boy, I just start playing it and it's
by yeah, and it's by Nate and Jess Moller, okay,
so so thank you for that. I hope I hope that
Parents will will point their teens that direction
or they'll be able to find it. So going back
to our course, you remember back then as we began
this podcast, was to know who you are as sons
and daughters of God, that was the beginning
of the Course on Repentance and Forgiveness,
and to also know that we are fallen beings, that
we are all sinners, and to recognize and celebrate
our mortal state. and then we go from there through
a process of obtaining faith in Christ, repentance,
which is a process. What kind of stands out to
you that strengthened you? Because you were in
a pretty good place when I first met you and
you were taking that course. You were coming
back, you were in a pretty good place. What stood
out to you that helped strengthen your resolve
to continue in your conversion of the gospel?
I think the thing that helped me most was honestly,
it was pretty simple. At least, you know, the
easy thing to remember was just how you're always
told to endure to the end, right? I always just
remember, even now, when things get really hard,
just endure. Just indoor and then from there
my mind goes to various things that I've heard
like one of the things that I like to draw on
is Joseph Smith and knowing that right before
he had the first vision, you know what happened
to him Satan did everything he could to stop
him from getting into that grove And I found
that throughout my life When things get really
bad It usually means that Satan sees something
good coming and if you can just hold on just
for a little bit That bad will pass and something
good follows So, I mean really just if you kind
of take that for me if you take that mindset
I've just found myself growing and growing and
growing in faith and testimony I mean some days
it feels like you know one step forward and two
steps back, but I Would say overall I don't even
have to say I would say Know that I am better
off now than I was and that right there is repentance
The desire to be on a path and grow and become
better that really is repentance. You're showing
God that you're repentant through your actions
And it's taken a long time and it's been hard
and I know it's still gonna continue to be but
My life is so blessed just because I remember
those few things and I don't give up hope I Think
the other thing that I remember is the story
that I've shared today um whenever things again
get really hard like i've had moments where jess
and i will get in an argument and it'll be like
god why am i why are we even married like and
and i i say that but i say it because it's normal
satan wants you to second guess things and for
people to think oh that's terrible you thought
you shouldn't be married your wife no it's normal
satan's gonna do that um i remember well let's
see why are we married and then i remember that
story again and it's like i know i'm supposed
to be with her I know it, and it kind of erases
the lies that he tells you. It dispels those
things that he wants to get you to believe so
that you get off course again. Well, that's the
importance of remembering, Nathan, right? I think
we've taught that, that President Kimball said
the most important word in the Book of Mormon
is remember. But so many don't remember. It's
so easy to forget or to have something of a lapse,
you know of We we we get this spiritual amnesia
Sometimes and we forget who we are or we forget
the experiences that we've had Besides just recalling
them. What are you doing in your life now? To
be continually moving forward on the path strengthening
your faith, continuing in your repentance, and
to help yourself to remember these experiences
that you've described. And Nate, before you answer
that question, maybe you could do it in light
of another experience that I know that's been
difficult probably for you in your life. You
talk about a stepfather. In fact, you've talked
about several stepfathers. And you talked about
the blessing of your most recent, well, a stepfather,
Corey, who... Went through a pretty difficult
situation or because of something that happened
to him also created difficult situation in your
family That had to be hard for you as well. Maybe
you could describe that and then answer Dave's
question Around that but apply it not just to
everything else in your life, but that experience
specifically Maybe you could kind of tell us
what happened there briefly and how you've been
able to through the atonement of Jesus Christ
make it through that experience Well his the
story with him He was he was a Utah County sheriff's
deputy For a long time it was what eight months
shy of 20 years He's working out in Eagle Mountain
he was a desk sergeant basically and he was leaving
his office in Eagle Mountain one day to Drive
out to where my family lived to pick up my little
brother To take him to lunch and it was January
30th 2014 super crappy day really snowy crappy
day And as he's leaving and he gets on to SR
70 out there that's the main road that used to
go from out like Cedar for Eagle Mountain into
Lehigh He saw a truck parked off to the side
of the road. He drove past the truck and realized,
you know, we don't know necessarily what he thought
because we don't have any audio or video to know,
but we can surmise. I've thought about this a
lot. But you see him and I've seen the dash cam
video. He does drive past the truck, stops, turns
around, comes back behind the truck and then
calls in the dispatch and says that he's got
a motorist assist. With police, a motorist assist
is like the most low key of calls. It's I'm helping
somebody change a tire or they're stuck in the
mud or something like that. So it's not something
that dispatch really worries about. And for 18
minutes, he goes back and forth between that
car and his car and tries to find out, OK, why
are they on the side of the road? Why are there
hazards on? What can I do to remedy their situation?
He finds that there's a A 17 -year -old female
driving an adult Hispanic male in the passenger
seat. He finds that the truck belongs to her
grandparents. She gives him her information.
He gets information from the male, and it turns
out that that information is faulty. So for really
the 18 minutes, he goes back and forth between
the two cars. He's trying to find out who this
male is. He won't tell him who he is. After about
18 minutes... The truck has a sliding back window
on it and he shoots seven shots in the front
of my dad's police car. The first two bullets
hit him. First one hits him up in the temple
area on the side of his head and the second one
hits him in the jugular on the opposite side
of his head. And he is incapacitated on the side
of the road and they speed off and it turns into
a County wide manhunt trying to find somebody
who had shot this deputy and later shot another
deputy which was a Greg Shearwood He was shot
in the head in Sarah in Santa Quinn and then
they sped on and got into a shootout and then
that man died that day and the 17 year old is
in prison for You know aggravated murder basically
That happened It goes back to that Joseph Smith
analogy I mentioned earlier. That happened about
a week after I had taken over the classroom in
my student teaching assignment at Pleasant Grove
High School. In that moment, it was like, holy
crap, the world does not want me to be a teacher.
And I already had doubts that I could do it.
I remember... that first night when we were told
that he was shot and killed, feeling anger that
first day at the hospital in Orem. That's where
our family was. That's where the sheriff came
and talked to us. And then after that, it was
kind of like that initial experience that I explained
when the Savior calmed my seas. It's like he
did the same thing. He took that angst, that
frustration, that anger, and he removed it. And
the outpouring of community love and Help and
acceptance and willing to suffer collectively
Replace that anger and that frustration It really
started the healing process for us and it was
interesting a lot of the times I remember going
to things. I remember being at his viewing I
remember going to events that our family was
invited to be at Consoling other people hugging
people as they cried into my shoulder It was
rough, but it was very, very unique and a very
sweet experience just because I know at the end
of the day, I think the thing that really gives
us peace is I believe that before we come to
this earth, we're told what's gonna happen. I
believe that we come knowing who we're gonna
be and what's going to happen. And I know that
Corey knew that that was gonna happen to him
that day, whether he realized it in this life
or not. but he knew and he chose to allow it.
So I know that he would have rather gone through
that than make another family go through it,
which means that my family was positioned to
have to go through such an experience. And still
to this day, it's hard. I mean, I've mentioned,
not today, but I've realized this in my past.
Like when things happen like that, you don't,
they don't go away. They don't. You really just
learn to deal with it. You learn to live with
it. You learn to either make it a positive or
a negative. And there are so many people that
take things like that and let them become a negative,
and it harbingers on them. It causes them to
become these spiteful, mean people because they
just don't know how to cope with it. And in reality,
we can't cope with it on our own. We have to
have a mediator. And that's what the Savior can
do is he can allow you to get rid of all that
negative feeling and angst and everything else.
And now I'm able to take that story and among
others, and I use them in my classroom. One of
the coolest experiences, I think, and one of
the things that helped me to become the teacher
I am is when I went back to finish teaching,
first off, I would say I was teaching with two
teachers at Pleasant Grove High School, both
of which had lost their fathers. So both of which
had a unique and they lost their fathers in unexpected
ways. So they both had a unique ability to understand
me. So their approach to me changed. And then
I remember first day taking over the class and
it was just a ghost town. The kids didn't know
what to say. They didn't know how to react. It
was so in everybody's face. Everybody knew. And
so, you know what? I pulled up a picture of my
dad. I explained the whole situation in explicit
detail. And I learned in that moment. My testimony
changed because now I know that sharing my story,
I don't have faith in it anymore. I know that
sharing my story changes lives and can help people
because I experienced it firsthand in front of
strangers. My dad is still amazing. I've grown
to know him now more than ever. I see him in
dreams constantly. He's always there. My brother
has had really personal experiences with him.
He's still around. He still helps us. I still
get to feel him when I'm in situations that are
hard. I have an image of him come to my mind
and he'll say, I'm here. So it was a rough experience,
but it has strengthened my testimony and the
atonement and the plan of salvation and of this
gospel in ways that I just couldn't have had
any other way. It really almost to me seems like
he was meant to do that so that I could be who
I am, because without him going through what
he went through, I would not be who I am today.
Oh, that's humbling to think that God planned
for somebody to die, not just my savior, but
somebody else that dies so that I can become
who I am. It's crazy to think about, but who
knows what he's doing. So Nathan, thank you for
sharing that. God has taken your experiences
and through the atonement of Jesus Christ and
his redemption has consecrated those experiences
for your gain, and through you he has consecrated
that experience for others' gain, as he promised
that he would in the Scriptures. But Nathan,
that's not true for probably every member of
your family, I don't know. So why has he, why
you, why has this experience helped to sanctify
you? consecrated this experience for your gain
and through you been able to bless others. What's
the difference? I mean, I don't think it just
happened. There's something about you or something
that you did to help the atonement of Jesus Christ
be activated in your life for you to access it,
to bring about all of the goodness, to make beauty,
so to speak, out of ashes. How come and and what's
the difference? It's you know, it goes back to
that day when I was diving out to my parents
house to take my life I Decided to make a change
that day and I decided to accept even though
I didn't necessarily understand in that moment
I decided to accept my Savior and because I decided
to accept him and his payment for me for his
bloodshed for his sacrifice I I made that choice
and so when these other challenges come I've
already made that choice and so the Savior is
still there and it's not that he's not readily
available for other people but it's just it's
not everybody's accepted him they need to they
need to accept him as soon as you accept him
in your life that sorrow that pain it ends I
had this realization the other day I realized
that you can take two people and you can give
them the exact same experience. And if one has
the Savior and one doesn't, the paths are going
to be very similar. The one person that has a
Savior is going to grow and learn from experience.
And the path of the person that doesn't have
the Savior is probably going to turn into alcohol
and sadness and frustration and anger. The thing
is, is the human body wants to find a way to
cope. If we choose the world, we cope in a worldly
way and we'll never find deliverance. Once you
make the choice to accept his sacrifice for the
thing that makes up the difference, you know,
that bridge between you and heaven, once you
accept the Savior, it takes you somewhere else.
And you can't go there by yourself. You just
can't. But you have to at some point accept them.
I have family members that are still struggling
from it. And I'm not saying that they haven't,
I guess, accepted the Savior to a greater or
lesser degree, but not in the same way. And I
mean, there's a couple that I can think of that,
you know, are really still struggling. And I
know that the answer really just is the Savior.
If you can find him, if you can allow him to
help you, it goes away. The feelings don't, like
you learn to live with it, but like that hatred,
the anger, the The pit in your stomach because
this terrible thing happened all of that human
emotion that goes away All of the stuff that
the world would have you harp on that part goes
away and you learn to Maybe the difference is
instead of having worldly sorrow you have Godly
sorrow. It's just different And it also has you
hope for a better tomorrow and it's not even
necessarily hope it's like I know Things are
gonna be hard, but I know that as long as I keep
trying God won't forsake me Because he's already
saved me so many times So but once you've tested
that once you've allowed him to help you You
can see it but until you have it's really Scary
to take that step and that's why a lot of people
I honestly believe that's why a lot of people
turn into alcoholics For example, if I look at
my experience I used alcohol to cope because
that's all I had to dull the pain and to numb
the feelings that I had I coped myself, but it
didn't work, did it? But when I accepted the
Savior, the alcohol wasn't a need anymore. I
didn't need to cope anymore because the coping
mechanism was the Savior. I replaced it with
something that was more than I could understand.
Well, Moroni describes that faith in Christ must
include hope in Christ. So the hope that you're
really describing, Nathan, is not just wishing
you know, it doesn't mean that. Your hope is
centered in Christ, hope in Christ. And there's
a power about that, right? Oh, yeah, for sure.
Without it, like, we've had this conversation
about hope before, and then I remember coming
to your class one day, it was probably shortly
before you retired. And I asked you about hope
before class and then you changed your lesson
and talked about hope that whole class period
that whole time frame just about the importance
of hope and what hope really is and What hope
can do for you? Hope is an amazing thing. And
yeah, it turns into faith and knowledge and all
these other things but hope Keeps you going.
Yeah, it's it's kind of like knowing that that
sun's gonna come up tomorrow. It's it's it's
hope that it's there I'll always have hope that
He's there, and faith that He's there, and knowledge
that He's there, you know? But hope is something
really akin differently than faith, and I think
it's so important. And all centered in Jesus
Christ. And we really appreciate, Nathan, your
sharing your story, but especially we're grateful
for your example of faith in Christ and His atonement.
hope in Christ and His atonement, and your example
of being an individual who, knowing that they
were a son of God, was willing to receive. I
think it comes down to accepting it and receiving
it, which is an action word. It's not just a
matter of choosing it, but you had to take some
action. What you've done, Nathan, throughout
your life. And I know that we're all flawed.
None of us are perfect. We're all sinners. None
of us go through this life unscathed, but that
all things can be healed through Christ and His
blood. And you're an amazing example of that,
Nathan. And we're really grateful. Maybe just
in closing, you wanna share any feeling of testimony
or closing thoughts that you have before we close?
We'll give you the last word. And Nate, as you're
doing this. Think about what advice you might
give to parents who might be struggling wondering
What could I do to help my son who might be going
through something like that? If there's anything
that loved ones or parents could do to influence
this maybe you could include that Yeah, how can
we point others to the Savior? Well, I'd love
to share my testimony I I guess before I do that
I'll say I had a thought the other day and I
write, you know, that's part of the reason that
I remember so many things. I write lots of things
and I was cleaning my, I was cleaning one day
listening to a podcast and I had this thought
come to my mind of a story and so I wrote out
this story and I won't share the whole thing
but if you're a parent and you have somebody
that's struggling, like I have my two older kids
struggle with different things. My oldest daughter
is really struggling with identity right now.
Whether she's a boy or a girl or what she wants
out of her life, she's struggling. And that's
been hard for me to deal with too. I just, I
don't know how to handle it, right? It's not
an experience that I have to be able to draw
on. But one thing that this story helped me realize
was, you know, you think, you know, just pretend
like you're on a hiking trail and you're hiking
and you stay on that path and the path is clearly
marked and you're on it with your family and
one of your family members divert and go a different
path. There are a lot of things that can happen
on the path and off the path, but off the path
it's scary. Like if you send a kid, you don't
know where they're at. You don't know if they
found a cliff. You don't know if they got attacked
by a bear. You don't know. Like it's a different
path. But one thing that you can take faith in
is if you've taught your children to look for
the signs, to follow the path that's set before
you. Even if they leave it, eventually they'll
find their way back to it. And that doesn't mean
don't care. That doesn't mean throw your arms
up the air and have a Jesus take the wheel moment.
That's not what it means. It means just have
faith in the fact that you've done more than
you realize and the person that your kid is going
to become It can't happen unless they left the
path in the first place. Sometimes you've got
to let it happen and you've got to stand back
and let them know that you love them. Let them
know that you're there. But really just make
sure that they know that you're not angry at
them for making a bad choice. Because if you
make them feel like you're angry, they're not
going to come to you anymore. They've got to
know that you're still there. I think that's
one of the most important things that you can
do. I've seen it with students and I've seen
it with my own kids. If anything, my kids will
at least still come around. They may not be doing
things that I agree with, but I have hope, just
like with me and just like with my wife, that
they may leave the path for a while, but in the
wilderness is where they find the Savior. And
in the wilderness, the Savior can guide them
back to the path again. And if you've done all
you can to that point, there's not much else
you can do other than pray and hope and keep
being diligent yourself. I know that... That's
true. As far as my testimony goes, this, I mean,
the church is amazing. The church is amazing
because people look for answers. They look for
who am I and where do I come from and why does
God do good things for bad people and bad things
for good people? I mean, these are all the typical
questions. The gospel answers all of them. And
if you stop to look for the answers, He will
give them to you. And it doesn't have to be answers
that everyone's getting. He'll answer you individually.
He'll answer you collectively. And He answers
you in ways that only you can understand. He
comes to you on your terms in so many different
ways. He talks to you in your language. He makes
it so that you can understand. He isn't difficult.
The gospel is not difficult. It is so blatantly
easy. It's us that complicates it. I know that
if you follow the gospel, if you listen, I mean,
really listen to the prophet, he's not gonna
lead you astray. He's not. And most of the time
when he just says, to read the scriptures, it
just means read the scriptures. Like it just,
it's basic. Take it for the basic value that
it is. Because it is, it's basic. God wants it
to be simple. And the gospel is simple. I know
that if you follow it, it will make your life
better. I know it. If you doubt, I mean, you
know, that's a different story, but try not to
doubt because look, it helped me, it can help
you, and it's helped so many other people. The
Lord cares about you. He knows who you are. He
knows who you are, which is crazy to think. He's
built an entire universe with millions, I mean,
know how many different earths and suns and,
but he knows me and he cares about me. He cares
about if I lose my AirPods. He cares about if
I'm doing good or bad in the class. It's crazy
to think, but he cares. And in the scriptures
it says that a sparrow can fall and he will know.
He knows and he cares. And if you take the time
to talk to him, to really talk, not just, hey,
bless the food or bless my day, bless that I
can be happy, name of Jesus Christ, amen, kind
of stuff. Like actually talk. Like think about,
you know, you parents, think about what you would
love your kids to sit down and talk to you about.
If you just sit and talk to him, he'll answer.
He wants to give you blessings if you ask. This
gospel is amazing and he is there. I love it
and I don't know where I would be without it.
I'm grateful for the temple. I love the temple.
The plan of salvation is so amazing. To know
that my dad is there helping me and my other
family is there helping me is an amazing thing
too. I have a really tender testimony of that
and I know that at the end of my life I'll be
able to do the same thing for my family. I know
it. There's life after this one. We don't just
close our eyes and never wake up again. There's
so much more than we just don't understand. And
you know what? Listen to your leaders. I love
my church leaders, the prophet and my state presidents
and my bishop. I love them. They all just want
to help you. I've seen that in my life too. Amen.
And Nathan, one more thing. Just touch for a
moment on your relationship with Jesus Christ.
You know, Jesus Christ is, he's in the boat with
me. I mean, as they say, he's hooked next to
me pulling these same weights, and really, honestly,
he's pulling my weights and my challenges without
me. I know that he's there, and I feel him there
often. It's more than... I mean, it really is
like he's a big brother. I'm the oldest in my
family, as far as siblings go, but I have an
uncle who's like my brother. And whenever I need
help, I can call him and he'll talk to me. He's
only eight years older than I am. And that brotherly
relationship that I have between him and I is
a lot what I feel with a savior. Whenever I am
really struggling, Or have a question or and
frustrated about something It's like, you know,
I can say I I really need you to help me with
this Like I don't understand. How did you handle
it? How did you do it? and I'll have images and
thoughts or ideas come into my mind or I'll have
you know a thought to write something and I'll
write it down but answers come He is readily
available there for me. He ever since that day
I mean it really honestly before that day, you
know, I know that he was there I just couldn't
feel him I think you said this, Dave, best. When
your wife feels bad about something, when she
seeks to be forgiven about something, she feels
bad about something she's done. Well, she looks
up into heaven and says, thank you, right? That's
how I feel. His atonement is for me. It's for
you. It's for everybody. And whether or not you
want to let him pay that price for you, it's
already happened. So you can accept it or you
cannot but if you accept it at least you don't
let it go to waste I know it's hard sometimes
to let people help you but he's already done
it and he wants you to let him step in and He
wants you to let him bridge the gap and he wants
you to let him Make weak things strong and I
hope and pray every day that I Make him proud
because he's done everything for me Thank you
so much Nathan sure love and appreciate you brother
our friendship you and your sweetheart jess and
your family you've had a lot of tough stuff brother
you've you've been asked to face a lot of things
in your young moldable shapeable life and our
heavenly father loves you and and is using you
what an instrument oh my goodness what an instrument
you are nathan I feel his great love overpowering
all of us today for you as you've experienced
your strength and hope. What a blessing you are
to students. Yeah, indeed. And us. Family. And
to our listeners. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And
what an example of the embodiment of Ether 1227.
Thank you for that. It's been a great podcast.
It's been good to be with you all today. We look
forward to our next. opportunity to be together
next week. Make sure that you tune in and until
then, may God bless you. May you fill his spirit
continually to be with you and please do everything
you can to court the spirit so that you may fill
the atonement of the administration of the atonement
of Jesus Christ alive in your life. Thanks everybody.
Have a great week.