Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another
episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. This is
Scott Durfey. And today and every day that we
do this, I'm joined by the lovely Debra Durfey.
What's up, babe? Hi, everybody. Happy to be here.
It's good to be kind of home. Deb and I have
been out of town for a few days doing some family
reunion stuff down in southern Utah. Really great
area. Just absolutely love it. But it's good
to be home, huh? It is good to be home and in
our own bed. I love that you say it's good to
kind of be home, because I think we are home.
This is our home. I guess I should have said
it's kind of good to be home. Because I love
that, you know, it's a beautiful area. Well,
and it's not just that there's, you know, I don't
know about our listeners. I know this is true
for you, but there are places in my life that
are kind of sacred. that are outside of what
we would typically deem sacred places and nature.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And nature in general, mountains,
even the desert and the water, the ocean, I know,
especially for you. But those kinds of things
can be sacred for me. But I have a history in
the area that we just came from this in this
area that we were just at. I kind of grew up
there doing family reunion stuff, hunting, spending
time in the mountains. And then later in life,
when my became a train wreck. I guess I should
my life didn't become a train wreck when I turned
my life into choices. Yeah, exactly. I hopped
on the train. I don't ever want to I don't ever
exactly I hopped on the train. I don't ever want
it to seem like that I'm a victim of my own choices.
But anyhow, that was a place that you know, when
I was trying to recommune when I was trying to
reconnect, you know those when I felt lost the
most lost there, there was some sacredness. in
that area. In that area is where I first... Gain
testimony with great men on the deer hunts, you
know. You should tell us where that place is.
The name of the mountain where we were on this
weekend is called Fish Lake, Fish Lake Mountain.
And there's absolutely beautiful, just absolutely
gorgeous. And this is an area, Deb, where when
I admire some of my very earliest memories and
I have pretty early memories, I literally remember
vividly things from three years old. It's awesome.
And maybe even before that, but I know for sure
I remember. remember things at three years old,
four for sure, five for sure. But this is an
area that my grandparents were raised, my grandma
and grandpa Durfee, Dave's parents, who we did
the podcast with in seasons past, and my dad's
parents, they grew up, both grew up in that Wayne
County, that little beautiful sacred area to
me. Well, and I think it's important to... to
let our listeners know also that you went with
extended family for decades. Like your cousins
and your aunts and uncles and your grandma. So
you created these memories as a young child.
And then your parents have continued this amazing
tradition to gather their children and their
children's children, so their grandchildren,
together once a year to go and have a reunion.
And it's such a wonderful, wonderful time of
year that we look forward to some of us that
love to camp some of us that hate to camp and
and they all come and they all participate and
we all have a good time and we laugh and we it's
just such a great connection I it's been such
a blessing for me to step into this tradition
and by doing it for the last 23 years now I I'm
like we gotta keep this going you know yeah yeah
you know it's like right taking our children
and our grandchildren and continue it and don't
ever let this tradition dissolve because it's
so sacred. It's such a beautiful experience.
You know what to me makes it sacred? So there's
two components to me that make it sacred. One
is the memory of going back and being able to
reconnect. I can't tell you how many tears have
fallen from my eyes into the dirt. and stuff
around that area. Just pleading, reseeking, help
me remember. And when I go back there, I have
those remembrances. And it's visceral for me.
I can go back there and I can feel those things.
For me, Deb, I remember sitting on the boat,
holding my little grandson, Scotty. I remember
vividly being about that age and on that same
lake and my grandma and my grandpa holding me
and and and reassuring me and letting me know
how much I'm loved and and and giving these experiences
to me that have formed my life. Yeah. And I hope
that, you know, we can do that for our kids,
too. And I think you're doing to I know we are
the thing that I don't just bring that up to
burden our listeners with. our personal stories
and memories and things like that. There's a
point behind all of this. You know, yesterday,
too, we went to David and Chris's farewell. It
was beautiful. And I don't want to talk a lot
about it. So really get emotional. We want to
be able to complete this because I'm going to
miss those guys like crazy. However, when David
stood up, the first I don't know if it was the
very first thing out of his mouth, but it might
as well have been. He said, and I think I quote,
it's all about relationships. Yeah. It's all
about relationships. And it really is all about
relationships, you know, and we think about that,
you know, and to the to the ears that maybe aren't
accustomed to thinking in a way of deity type
of relationships, you know, maybe we just first
think of relationships, earthly relationships.
And that's important. And that's where. those
things for me began, you know, in places like
that. And we have been so blessed, Deb, your
family is the same way, you know, your side of
the family is the same way, in that there have
just been such a great concerted effort to bring
family together, to gather us together so that
we can develop and gain an earthly sense of the
importance of loving, caring, supportive relationships.
And even sometimes relationships that come with
some challenges. They can bless us too. What
they are though is just a precursor to the most
important relationship that we'll ever enter
into and that's our relationship with the deity.
Our relationship with our Father in heaven. Which
is possible because of the atonement and sacrifice
of his son. And so a relationship through his
son. as well, and a relationship with the Holy
Ghost. And I love that. This is where we're going
to be today. Last week we talked a little bit
about faith. We're going to talk a lot more about
faith in coming weeks. But last week we talked
a little bit about faith and we really kind of
focused on Amulek. And when Amulek was teaching
the people, he was about ready to call them to
repentance, you know, and to give them, you know,
the things that they needed in order to prepare
again to meet God. But before he did any of that,
what did he teach them? He taught them the atonement
of Jesus Christ and the importance of that. And
the relationship with Jesus Christ. Right. Yeah.
Exactly. Even more importantly is that relationship
with him. Important above anything else. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean literally important above anything
else is our relationship with deity. It's all
about a relationship and those relationships
extend into our mortal experience and then thereby
will extend it back into eternity through covenant
relationships and so forth. But it's all about
that relationship. So I think today you know
we really want to talk about that relationship.
Well I think it's also important to Um, bring
up the fact that after Dave and Chris's farewell,
we went to his house to, um, you know, celebrate
and they had a little luncheon and it was so
tender for me to be able to watch you reconnect
with all those family members that there, you
were literally like a ping pong ball in that
sack, in that, um, chapel, like going from person
to person, from friend to family to friend to
family. And then, then after when we went over
to Dave and Chris's and we sat out it on a table
and had such a sweet. conversation with some
of those people that you literally grew up with
down, down in fish Lake and created those traditions
and those, and made those relationships again,
back to the relationship and how tender and sweet
those are. And even to the point that it was
like, we got to get together because those relationships
are so meaningful and so powerful and so helpful
as we navigate through life and life's and we
got, I got to meet a lot of their. kids. I know
your cousins, but I don't know a lot of their
kids. Well, neither do I. And it was so fun to
see how darling and cute and I mean, there were
even times that I'd pause and I'm like, look
at this little cute kid and, you know, just walking
by. But anyway, it was that was a sacred, sweet,
sweet moment as well. Yeah. Instruments of grace,
I think. I think Heavenly Father allows us to
have these experiences so that so that the spirit
can bear witness to us that families can be together
forever. Yeah. And what a reunion. I mean, I
just think about being able to just sit and to
have those, you know, meaningful conversations.
And we talked about all things of past, present
and even future. It was such a sacred moment.
And I could have sat there for days, probably,
with the days, with the days and many others
as well. Yeah. Yeah, that's really what it's
about, you know, if and you know, I know it's
difficult because I know not everybody has that
relationship with their family. I know not everybody
has those things. I know, you know, people are
perhaps thinking, yes, Scott, you have me, you
know, because I can relate to you with your alcoholism
problems and I can relate to you with all your
following issues. But I haven't been blessed
like you have. And I haven't had that experience
in my life. I haven't had that blessing in my
life. And to those I say, Hang on. Yeah, hang
on and listen on stay with us because today we
talk a little bit actually a lot We address that
about that and I think that's important relation.
We all I think we all have this inside of us.
And I think for some, perhaps it's buried under
the weight of depression or neglect or lack or
whatever. But I think within each one of us,
we have a desire, an innate desire to be connected,
to feel love and to give love and to participate
in a relationship, a positive uplifting, supportive,
loving relationship. Yeah. And I think we can
go back to the first and great commandment is
love the Lord thy God. That's our first relationship.
Right. And then the second is like unto it is
to love one another as thyself. And I think sometimes
thyself is one of the hardest relationships because
we're so mean to ourselves. We're so brutal.
And sometimes we just pick up a beating stick
and just pound the, you know, how dare you? What
were you thinking? I can't believe you did that
again. I mean, it's, you know, the relationship
with self is a really powerful relationship as
well. Well, we know that as we've been talking
about through the atonement of Jesus Christ,
all things can be healed. Every effect of the
fall of Adam and Eve and every negative effect
that we go through or experience in this life,
we've talked about it and we're going to reiterate
it and revisit it quite a bit today. The atonement
of Jesus Christ is for sin, make no mistake.
You know, maybe first, and I don't know. But
it's obviously for so much more than just our
transgressions. And I want to talk about that
today. I want to talk about the blessings or
the effects that are available to us because
of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I know that
we've alluded to a lot of this. I know that we've
kind of hinted around it and made reference to
it. I don't think we hinted around it. I think
we've made reference to it and those types of
things. But today we deal with it directly. There
are really blessings or effects that come from
Jesus Christ, right, because of his atonement.
It's probably a good time to say this too, that
when we talk about Christ and his atonement,
it's his atonement. There's no... power in an
event called the Atonement. Elder Packer, Elder
Holland, and so many others of the Twelve and
our prophets have talked about this. But it's
not the Atonement that gives us power. It's Jesus
Christ's power. And Jesus Christ's power and
blessings are available to us. because of his
atonement. His atonement, yeah. That's right.
But Jesus Christ is the power. He is the power,
and the blessings come from him. Yeah, and to
refer to the atonement is nothing if you're not
referring to Jesus Christ's atonement. It is
exactly right. I think that's what you're trying
to say. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So we know that
there are effects of the atonement. We know there
are effects of the fall. We talked about that.
We talked about spiritual death and physical
death and the effects that come and are associated
without each one of those deaths. Well, today
we're going to talk about the effects of Christ's
atonement, the blessings that come to us from
Jesus Christ or because of Jesus Christ, because
of his atonement. And we're really going to break
these down to two effects, right? We have conditional
and we have unconditional effects of the atonement
of Jesus Christ. It's important and again we
just talked about that you know that the the
power doesn't come from the atonement the power
comes from Jesus Christ through his atonement.
And we know that unconditional effects we overcome
physical and spiritual death. For example the
resurrection, salvation of children, returning
to God's presence and then the conditional effects
is dependent on our faith. Repentance, our covenants,
like not just making them, but, you know, renewing
them every week and enduring. And I think, you
know, sometimes it's, I was in a Relay Society
meeting one time and there was a lady teaching,
this was years and years ago, basically said
she got her last kid to the temple and so we've
arrived. And, you know, I thought, wow, she's
so lucky. And then I just thought, Wow, you have
no idea. Like, once we get there, it doesn't
mean we're staying there. So there's a commitment
and there's, you know. There's something that
just be said about that, you know, oftentimes
you hear things like that. Yeah. And people we
love. It's like we hit the goal. Exactly. Again,
it's not about just making that covenant, but
keeping that covenant. And even more importantly,
and that has become so sacred to me, is renewing.
that covenant every single week, that sacred
opportunity to make that effort to sit in that
ordinance room and partake of that broken bread
and drink of that cup. So as we move in, again,
just to reiterate, the source of the power is
not the what, it's the who. And it's how we always
need to remember that. You know, one of the defaults,
if we can just condition ourselves to whenever
we have a dilemma, when we have to make a decision,
oftentimes it's better for me to think instead
of what, who. Right? Instead of what should I
do? Who should I go to as a pattern? Who should
I go to for help? Whose atonement and whose blessing
should I rely on to pull me through? And so it's
often that that's the case. You know, for example,
in recovery programs, we speak of a higher power.
We know that healing really begins when we understand
who that power is. For those of us who have a
difficulty, a difficult time identifying that
power, just to identify higher power helps us
to know that there's something greater than me.
But for those who have the ability to really
understand who that power is in being Jesus Christ,
that's really where, for me, Deb, that's really
where the peace, the clarity, my purpose in life,
it all comes from that relationship, my relational
approach to the atonement of Jesus Christ. It's
not just theological, right? It's an actual relationship
with Him. Yeah, yeah. And again, back to relationships,
that's the first and great commandment. Yeah,
right. Well, let's talk a little bit about some
of these unconditional. Let's start with the
unconditional effects of the atonement of Jesus
Christ. For this one, we can turn right to the
scriptures. We're going to turn to a scripture
in the Book of Mormon. This is Moroni chapter
eight, and we're going to be in verses 10 through
12. I'll just read it. It's not long, but this
is the first unconditional effect. available
to the children of men because of Christ's atonement.
Behold I say unto you, this is again Moroni chapter
eight, verse 10, 11 and 12. Behold I say unto
you that this thing ye shall teach, repentance
and baptism unto those who are accountable and
capable of committing sin. Ye teach parents that
they must repent and be baptized and humble themselves
as their little children and they shall all be
saved with their little children. Can I push
pause on that for just a second? Because there
was a sentence that very first in 10 that really
gets my attention for the simple fact that I
have studied this word. Behold, I say unto you
that this thing ye shall teach. You know, we
talk about what is the thing? What is the most
important thing? Who is the thing? And you know,
in previous... episodes and in researching the
thing and in my patriarchal blessing it says
go forth and do the thing that the Lord has commanded
you to do and go forth I bless you with the ability
to do the thing and so I've really researched
the word thing and I you know in my personal
research, that thing is our Savior Jesus Christ.
So as we read that, and if it's okay I'll read
10 again, but if we can just put in Jesus Christ,
Behold I say unto you that this Jesus Christ
shall ye teach. repentance and baptism unto those
who are accountable and capable of committing
sin. Yea, teach parents that they must repent
and be baptized and humble themselves as little
children, that they may be saved with their little
children. Okay, go on with 11. And their little
children need no repentance, neither baptism.
Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling
of the commandments. Unto the remission of sins,
but little children are alive in Christ even
from the foundation of the world If not, so God
is a partial God and also a changeable God and
a respecter of persons for how many little children
have died without baptism I Think this is one
of the greatest tender mercies. I do too ever
afforded humankind Right. Yeah, and in Deb, you
know, this is one of the areas where we really
kind of are a little bit different than the rest
of Christendom. You know, this is an area that
because of the restoration of the gospel, because
of Revelation, because of the Book of Mormon,
because of that scripture right there, right?
And others ahead of it, you know, there's some
in Mosiah too, but that scripture right there
specifically, because of that scripture, that
really differentiates and that to me really helps
me understand You know, Heavenly Father really
is a God of love and a God of mercy. Well, and
he refers so often to his little children. Yeah.
And to children. It's, you know, being the primary
president in our ward, it makes me realize and
just being among those children, what pure doctrine
is spoken every single week. I think I shared
this when we did a little activity of you know,
this little boy Tommy in our ward on when he
wanted, I was talking to him about a testimony
and he says, Sister Durfee, I don't have a testimony.
And I said, what do you know about Jesus? And
he says, I love him. And I said, write that in
the front of the Book of Mormon. You know, you
write your testimony and then you share it with
somebody that has never read the Book of Mormon.
And that sweet little innocent child wrote, I
love you, Jesus, Tommy. That was his testimony.
That was his testimony. And what pure, pure,
I mean, purity. I mean, it was just so tender,
you know, that I love you, Jesus. Yeah, yeah.
Telling you, pure doctrines taught there. If
you want to see and feel, you know, where the
Savior will be, go among the children. Right.
This is a really a comforting doctrine to a lot
of people. You know, there's been a lot of people
who have had children pass There's been a lot
of people who have had Miscarriages stillborns
and I don't know the doctrine specifically. In
fact, there's not really any specific doctrine
around those types of things but I know that
there's comfort that comes through understanding
that this unconditional effect that's available
to us because of Jesus Christ and his atonement
can be, and indeed is, one of the most comforting.
points of doctrine that is available to us through
His Atonement. David used to tell a story, and
I'll probably butcher it a little bit, but you
can go back and verify it. Fact -checked it.
I'm sure that there's stuff that's going to be
wrong. But in past episodes, he's actually shared
this. story. He had a missionary companion served
his mission in Fresno, California, he had a missionary
companion, they were out knocking doors, I don't
remember any of the specific details. So I'm
going to embellish a few of my own. So, you know,
I think that they had had a long day, I think
that it they hadn't had a ton of success that
day and success being measured by the number
of doors open to them for them to go in and deliver
a message. This Elder Hanson knocked on a door.
They felt, I think that they felt like they needed
a hit, you know, the old consummate story, one
more door, one more house. And they did. And
when he knocked on the door, he didn't know what
he should say. And so he just opened his Book
of Mormon to the scripture that we just read
in Moroni chapter eight, that very scripture.
And he read it to the lady that opened the door.
And she just stood there. after he got done reading
he looked up and apparently she just stood there
and I'm sure I'm sure fear struck those young
missionaries like oh my gosh what am I gonna
do but but come to find out I think she was just
struck silent in shock and she said how did you
know how did you know or he said something like
who she said something like who are you and and
how did you know how did you know And the missionaries,
David and his companion, his companion said,
what do you mean, what did we know? And then
she went on to explain that she had just had
an infant death. I don't remember if that was
a stillborn, I don't remember if that was a miscarriage
or if it was a baby that had just passed, doesn't
matter. The comfort came to her through the doctrine
of the atonement of Jesus Christ. in that specific
verse. And I know that that just lends so much
comfort to so many people who have been in that
situation. We have friends. You know, we had
Jory and Mandy on here. Remember Jory and Mandy's
podcast, and we played it a couple of times.
We should do that again. I would actually love
to have them on again, but it would pretty much
be the same story. But they have gained so much
comfort. in knowing that their little one who
died at the hands of a babysitter has been able
to enter into the celestial kingdom. Just go
straight to living with our Heavenly Father.
I think that is such beautiful doctrine. And
comforting. Yeah, yeah. Very comforting. Well,
if you think about it. I did, I researched this
again this morning, just to double check, make
sure that I was on track, that I'm not getting
in the weeds. In fact, I had a friend, Rob, in
my ward, and he and I discussed this recently.
And we have found that there are statistics,
and the statistics range anywhere between 40
and 60%. Infant mortality rate, or I should say
children, child mortality rate before the age
of eight. prior to 1850 was between 40 and 60
percent. What that means is every child born
around the world prior to 1850 of all that were
born right around half passed away before eight.
before five, most of them. And if they didn't
have the ability to be baptized and to enter
this covenant relationship and all those other
things, so many other traditions, spiritual and
religious traditions out there, condemn that
young person, that baby to hell. Well, that's
not the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's not the
doctrine of Jesus Christ. We just read here that
they're all saved without condition. They go
to the celestial kingdom. So because of that,
and a lot of the general authorities have made
reference to this, Deb, but because of that,
the celestial kingdom's gonna be the most populated
kingdom. Because of all those little perfect
babies. Just that alone. Yeah. Just that alone.
Perfect children, I know. Just that alone. Yeah,
makes me reflect on our sweet niece who just
recently passed, or her baby passed. It was her
first baby and it was so, so difficult, but because
her and her husband both understanding the Atonement
of Jesus Christ doesn't take away the pain, doesn't
take away the heartache, the empty arms, the
grief, the sorrow, but just having that comfort
of knowing. that that baby's in God's arms. That
that baby is in a celestial state. And he was
so perfect, he just needed to come get a body.
We still miss him. So sad. There's rejoicing
in that too, right? There's rejoicing in the
doctrine, knowing that perfection. Knowing that
through our savior's atonement of Jesus Christ
and the power that's available to us, the perfection
that that little one or those little ones enter
right into the celestial kingdom and I love that
doctrine. That's a merciful God. A merciful God
isn't, well you died before you had a chance
to get baptized, you're going to hell, sorry.
That's not mercy to me. That's not love to me.
That is condemnation and that's the that's the
God that I used to think I saw When I felt like
he was always mad at me for all the dumb things
I was doing. Well, sometimes we were taught that.
I mean, I think we were, too. You know, that
he was making bad marks and every time you do
something wrong, you're getting... Well, I think
what I'm referring to, yeah, true, but what I'm
referring specifically to are the doctrines and
the teachings and some other traditions, religions
and so forth, you know, in that if a baby dies
before they're baptized, they're going to hell.
There's no comfort in that for me. Well, I'm
grateful that's not true in my belief system.
I'm grateful that's not true. Well, let's talk
then about another unconditional effect of the
atonement of Jesus Christ. And Deb, I think that
for this one, let's kind of preface it with a
couple of scriptures first. Do you mind turning
for me and reading Mosiah chapter three, and
let's do verses seven through 11. And lo, he
shall suffer temptations and pain of body, hunger,
thirst, and fatigue even more than man can suffer,
except it be unto death. For behold, blood cometh
from every poor. So great shall be his anguish
for the wickedness and the abominations of his
people. And he shall be called Jesus Christ,
the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth.
the creator of all things from the beginning,
and his mother shall be called Mary. And lo,
he cometh unto his own, that salvation might
come unto the children of men, even through faith
on his name. I love that. Faith on his name.
That's how we gain salvation. and even after
all this they shall consider him a man and say
that he hath a devil and shall scourge him and
shall crucify him and he shall rise the third
day from the dead and behold he standeth to judge
the world and behold all these things are done
that a righteous judgment might come upon the
children of men let me push pause right there
sweetheart Can you read that last verse again?
And he shall rise the third day from the dead,
and behold, he standeth to judge the world. And
behold, all these things are done that a righteous
judgment might come upon the children of men.
Okay, before we go to verse 11, so that was verse
10, we see why he did it. The reason he went
through what he did, and I know that there are
other definitions, and I know there are other
interpretations, but there are other things around
it. But here's a reason, and it says the reason,
that he did what he did. All these things are
done so that, I can put in, so that a righteous
judgment might come upon the children of men.
A righteous judgment. I want us to put that in
the, just file that away somewhere really important
in your head. He did it that a righteous judgment
might come upon the children of men. Go ahead
and read 11. Hang on to that, I'm gonna read.
So this is 2 Nephi 9 .26. For the atonement,
satisfyeth the demands of justice upon all those
who have not the law given to them, that they
are delivered from that awful monster, death
and hell. The very last sentence of that same
verse. They are restored to that God who gave
them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel.
So if we die, we don't have the law. given and
the law is actually the doctrine. If we don't
have the doctrine of Christ and the scriptures
and the law meaning that we haven't entered into
that covenant relationship and we've never had
that opportunity to do so, we're covered because
of the atonement of Jesus Christ. This is another
beautiful point is that those who die without
the law, are saved. Because we have a merciful
God. We have a God that understands circumstance.
He understands the conditions that we're born
into. He understands that. Yeah. Yeah. And he
loves all of his children. Now, Deb, for our
third unconditional effect, it is that all are
touched by the fall and all are touched by the
atonement of Jesus Christ. Thank goodness. So
what does this mean? Well, we're in a fallen
world, and we all experience pain, and injustice,
and separation, and sorrow, grief. We experience
all kinds of things because of the fall. Injury,
health. And because we all are affected by the
fall, we need depend upon a Savior. If I didn't
know about the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I don't
know that this life would be that worth living.
It's hard and there's hard things that a lot
of people carry, a lot of burdens and a lot of
sorrow and grief and without having any ounce
of hope that there is something better waiting
or there is a purpose behind these challenges
that we endure. I was just talking to my son
this morning and he was telling me about some
of the challenges he's having. He goes, but I
know it's going to get better. I know it's going
to get better. I mean, just having that knowing,
I think helps us, you know, to be grateful for
the atonement of Jesus Christ. I mean, you know,
if you think about Christ's atonement, it's for
everyone, even if they don't know it. It is for
absolutely everyone. He is not picking and choosing
who is a Christian, who is whatever. This fallen
world and this atonement of Jesus Christ is for
literally every human being, every child of God
that enters this planet. I think that this is
really kind of where the rubber starts hitting
the road for us, right? Is where, you know, we're
all touched by the fall. Everyone else, and we've
spent a few episodes talking about that. We spent
a ton of time talking about this in our Institute
class at BYU recently. And this is really an
important concept for us to understand and grasp
as fully as we can is that we're all fallen.
We're all affected. We're all touched by the
fall of Adam and Eve. And some of that, much
of that is... Negative, negative effects of the
fall. But we're all touched by the atonement.
I love that you talk about how the fall is universal.
Well, guess what? So it's the atonement of Jesus
Christ. It's universal. Not only is it universal,
it's infinite. And so because of the atonement
of Jesus Christ, the things that affect us because
of the fall will be answered. And in many cases,
and already have been answered, and we'll read
later from Elder Kieran, that they are indeed
already being answered, probably ahead of our
even qualifying for the blessings that come from
the redemption of those things. It also reminded
me of a talk from D. Todd Christofferson given
in April of 2013, and this is a quote from that
talk. Through the atonement, the Savior also
heals and compensates us for any suffering we
innocently endure. You know, again, it's for
all of us. We're all affected on both sides,
and we're benefited on both sides. We know that,
for example, death, physical death is one of
the things that come to us because of the fall
of Adam and Eve. That's one of the unconditional
effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, Deb,
is resurrection. We will all be resurrected.
We will all return to that God who gave us life
to be judged. And every knee shall bow and every
tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. I love
that scripture. So we so we know that that's
one of the ways the conditional or the unconditional
effects of the fall or the the effects of the
fall. I'm just going to leave it that because
of the that the effects of the fall are offset
all. That that. that physical death is offset
because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
which then makes the resurrection available.
Every one of us will be resurrected. I remember
going to a funeral of a lady that her son did
not believe. He just thought that this is the
end, that he will never see his mom again. And
I wept watching him. And I just kept thinking,
one day you're going to have such a sweet reunion.
One of these days you will see. that we do have
a merciful God that will bring your mom and bring
you back into your mom's arms. What a tender,
tender, tender mercy. Yeah, and I think that
we all have, you know, some story or stories
or experiences in our lives that we can relate
to this too. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, you
know, we know that it gives us a resurrection.
It also helps us to overcome or heal from injustices.
Right. We also know that it gives us the power
to overcome sin against us You know when we talk
about the atonement of Jesus Christ, we can really
break down Jesus's blessings to us in Under three
real categories, right? The first one being the
redeeming blessings that come to us from Jesus
through his atonement And we understand that,
and we're going to continue to talk about that
throughout the entirety of this season of the
podcast. It's the redemption that comes because
of His Atonement. Because He redeems us. Because
He redeems us. How does He redeem us? Through
the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Through His blood.
Through His blood, yes. That's right. We are
redeemed through His blood. So that's the first,
that's one. They're not in any particular order.
The second one that I'm gonna mention are enabling
and strengthening powers that come to us because
of Christ and His Atonement. He helps us do things
that we would not be otherwise able to do at
all. Abling and strengthening, right? Yes, absolutely.
And that's exactly what it is. The power to overcome
sin against us, the power to overcome our own
sin, the power to overcome anything is part of
that enabling and strengthening blessings that
come from Jesus through his atonement. I have
a really sacred experience about that when I
went into the temple one time and I was at a
point in my life, this was before I was married
to you, and life had just been, it felt like
life had just handed me a really crummy hand
and I was I was pretty beaten down and I was
in despair. I was like in, and I just remember
thinking, I need to go to the temple. I need
to find peace because there is absolutely no
one, no thing that is going to bring me peace
right now because of stuff that was going on
in my life to me, around me, all of that. And
I just felt like physically, mentally, emotionally,
I was beaten down. And I remember walking into
the Mount Timpanogos temple and I felt like there
was a boulder literally just pushing me down.
I'm sure my shoulders were hunched. I was just
so heavily burdened with my story so hard. And
I remember sitting in the endowment And I just
kept saying, only father, I don't know what to
do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what
to do. And I finally get to the celestial room
and there's this overwhelming piece that flooded
my soul clear to the fleshy tables of my heart.
And I, I remember just feeling like, my lungs
opening up more, I felt like the burden on my
shoulders and on my head were lifted. And I can't
give you the timeframe that I sat in that room
and wept and pleaded and thanked, but it was
definitely a long period of time. And I remember
walking after, you know, the session, I put my
clothes on and walked out of that temple and
I looked up at the sky and I just thought, I
am a completely different person than I was a
few hours ago when I walked into this holy place.
I literally watched and felt and saw the miracle
of a changed heart, that compensatory, that enabling
and that strengthening because my story had not
changed when I walked out of there. I still had
the exact same thing going on in my life. But
he changed me and he strengthened me and he gave
me the power to continue forward in my challenges.
And it wasn't easy. But I will never forget that
miracle that I endured. And I think I literally
said out loud, if my grandma was resurrected
right now and came up and walked up to me, I
wouldn't be more shocked because that was the
miracle that I had experienced. It was such a
tender, tender mercy, a tangible evidence that
his atonement enables and empowers. The turmoil,
the confusion, the the storms in your life. None
of that had changed. None of it. It was still
there. Yep. So what had changed was? My heart.
He changed me. He literally changed me. And he
gave me that strength. And he empowered me. And
by aligning your will with his, his will is for
you to be in connection with him. And that can
look different things, right? Yeah. like going
to the temple and it may look like partaking
and it may look of the sacrament it may look
like serving and you're one of your ministering
brothers or sisters and it may look like helping
somebody and it may look like helping a homeless
person and it may look help you know all of these
things are what allow us to align with what blessings
are already there for us. And I find that too,
I absolutely do not want to diminish the blessings
and the power, the absolute power that can come
by temple attendance and temple worship. But
for those of us who aren't quite maybe ready
for that yet, or maybe who don't quite qualify
for that yet, or maybe who aren't, we've got
a lot of younger listeners now, Deb, but for
maybe a lot of those who aren't at the age to
maybe enter into that endowment covenant relationship,
etc. Yet, those blessings are available. Well,
I think it's important to know that where we
seek Him, He will meet us. Well, that's true.
I mean, it's not a place. At that day, it happened
to be a place. Well, but that place is set apart.
for that for sure for sure but I could give you
other examples of times that I have sought him
and you know at the end of the episode I always
say he meets us in our mess I have numerous stories
to tell you he meets me in my mess anytime there's
a mess and I plead and I cry out to him he meets
me in my mess so there's the condition All I
have to do is align with it. You align with it
by crying out to him, by whatever else you just
said, right? And I think that is the way we should
align with him. I think it's the same for me.
For sure. But it's about aligning with those
blessings that are already available to us, not
earning them. Right, right. That was going to
be my question. What did you do to earn that
relief that day, Deb? I think just by aligning
with him. I think by seeking him, I think by
just throwing my hands in the air saying, I can't,
but I know you can, and I need you to today because
it's heavy and it's hard. And it's - And I know
it's semantics, but that's - For sure. You didn't
earn it. Yeah. None of us earned it. But I aligned
with it. Right. Yep. Redemption's free. Salvation's
free. I mean, I say but. But I aligned with it.
And I aligned with it. Yes. And I aligned with
it. Right. For sure. Because I don't know what
would have happened had I not made that effort.
This isn't something that I planned to talk about,
but if we can turn to Doctrine and Covenants,
section 88, verse 33, this is really what it,
for me, this is really kind of the differentiator
in what we're talking about here. Did you earn
it? Is it really a gift? After all, that's what
the word endowment means. This is in 88, section
88, verse 33. Four, what doth it profit a man
if a gift is bestowed upon him and he received
not the gift? You just went there that day to
receive, Deb. I sure did. To receive the gift.
Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given
unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the
giver of the gift. So if a gift's bestowed upon
us and we don't receive that gift, Deb, it can't
profit us. So I think that, you know, oftentimes
we talk about earning His grace, earning His
blessings, earning this and earning that, when
I think maybe if we changed it to receiving His
grace. I always go to the football analogy. I
love that you're bringing this up. I really do.
I mean, and I've taught this. I can throw a ball
all day long, but if I don't have a receiver,
all I'm doing is throwing a ball, and it's landing
uselessly. Literally, it's just a ball falling
on the ground. And I think one day soon we're
gonna talk about what it means to receive, but
that's a perfect analogy, Dev. I love that. But
it's true. It's real for me. It's a tangible
learning thing for my brain. This is one of the
reasons I love my wife so much is her analogies
are often sports analogies. It's really cool
for me. Well, I was raised with six brothers.
And I thank every one of them. And a dad who
played football. Yeah, that's true. All -American
almost, right? Yeah, I think that we've talked
about to the all of the unconditional effects
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ how they offset
both of the effects of all of the effects of
the fall Both that come both from spiritual death
and physical death, right? I think next week
we'll get into the conditional effects of the
atonement of Jesus Christ in this, you know gang
this is where For those of us who desire a deeper
and I think it eventually is for all of us But
for those of us who desire a deeper we began
this episode talking about relationships a deeper
relationship a more true relationship a relationship
that you can fully trust and and Engage in that
type of relationship. That's what we're talking
about next week. We're going to talk about the
conditional effects How do I qualify for the
conditional? effects of the atonement of Jesus
Christ. So let's just talk about maybe we can.
Wait, you told me I didn't qualify. I didn't
qualify, you didn't earn. Earn, okay. There's
a difference. Okay. Yeah. Qualify and earn, okay.
Yeah, yeah. Big difference. Qualify, we just
align with. Earn means, that means. I did it.
By my merit. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Okay, okay.
I'm glad you brought that up. And I'm probably
not going to cut that. I was going to say you
can cut that out. No, I'm probably not going
to cut that because if you wondered about that,
then maybe some of our listeners did too. So
I'm just going to leave that in there. But let's
just I'm going to just kind of tease next week's
episode about the conditional effects of overcoming
the fall of Adam and Eve and the conditional
effects that are available to us through Christ's
Atonement. The first one is spiritual rebirth.
That's going to be a fun one to talk about. And
that spiritual rebirth is really where we are
a brand new creature. for those of us and my
hands raised armpit showing for those of us who
have a deep desire to be somebody something different
it requires rebirth and it's that change that
i talked about earlier to allow him to change
our hearts that spiritual rebirth that allows
him now to be him being Jesus to now be the father
of our spirits. This is why I don't like the
big brother context. He's the father of my spirit.
He's my God. He's not my big brother. I mean,
I get all that. But anyway, side note. And then
we're going to talk about perfection through
Christ or being completed through Christ or being
brought onto him and all things that are not
like him being removed through from him through
Christ, okay? And then we're going to talk about
eternal life with God, what all that means, the
order of the resurrections. Again, so we're all
going to be resurrected, but the order of the
resurrection is dependent. on our qualifying
for the conditional blessings that come to us
through Christ's atonement. Not earning, qualifying.
That's right. We're going to talk about that.
And then we're going to talk about the various
degrees of glory and power that are all available
to us through His atonement, through the effects
of His atonement. So Deb, do you have an invitation
today? Personally, I like to take an inventory.
and just just kind of self -reflect personal
inventory I guess is what I call it but what
if I mean just ask yourself what if the atonement
of Christ is already working in ways that you
haven't even noticed And think about, I mean,
just like that day I entered the temple, I did
not understand what was happening until after
it had actually happened. And I still reflect
on that day and it still changes my heart. Even
telling that story, it changes my heart. Well,
it changes my heart to hear that story too. So
there's power in that as well. It definitely
changed me. And what if your faith isn't about
chasing healing? but catching up to the healing
that is already going on, that's already underway.
What if your faith isn't about chasing healing,
but like catching up to the healing that's already
in motion, already underway? When I think about
applying the atonement, and gang, I've been sober
26 years and I've been trying to work this thing
pretty hard. For most of that let's just put
it that way for most of that, but I've never
thought of that before Deb I have always been
the one chasing my healing I've always been the
one I need this healed in my life. How am I gonna
heal? How am I gonna allow him? Let me rephrase
that How am I going to allow him my higher power
Jesus Christ to heal that? So what you're talking
about kind of goes back to last week's episode
when we talked about faith in him. Yeah, absolutely.
A little bit of faith in him helps us to understand
the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ,
conditional and unconditional. And so when you'd
say, what if it isn't about chasing healing?
But what did you say? Catching? I said, what
if your faith isn't about chasing healing, but
catching up? To the healing catching up to the
healing already that's already that's already
underway. That's already going on So it's already
there for us is what yours I just got chills
over my whole body. So What you're saying is
instead of chasing my healing? What if I'm just
trying to catch up for the healing? That's already
been through his tender mercy laid before me.
Yes I love that and I love you. I love you. That's
so cool. I love that so much way to go. That's
so cool Well, listen gang, we haven't really
gotten into all of the, haven't at all gotten
into all of the effects of the atonement of Jesus
Christ. My invitation to you would be this week,
maybe just to identify where you can see the
healing that's taken place. You know, you keep
a personal inventory, I do that too. We both
have this practice in our life and I think that
they originated from the same source, recovery
places. You know, I think that this is a good
time for us to begin again to take those personal
inventories Because I think it's him and pray
and ask for you know guidance I think all also
I have to pray to help me to have the ice to
see there you go You know, I it's it doesn't
always just show up in my face Sometimes I'm
you know buried in that forest and I can't see
any trees That's exactly what I was gonna say
when you went to the temple that day you prepared
yourself to receive the gift I was hoping to
receive anything. You got in a dress, you're
already pretty, but you got even prettier. You
went to the temple, and you participated in ordinances
that are important to you. You prepared yourself,
and there is some preparation required for all
of us in that. And so we just prepare the best
way that we can, and we look for where the atonement,
the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ
have already been at work in our lives. And I
think even exercising faith that he would do
something if I entered his house. Which is a
lot easier to do if we have a relationship with
him. Exactly. If we have that, we're going to
stress relationship for some of you, it will
be ad nauseum. But this is the whole emphasis,
the whole point behind the podcast is a relationship.
Yep. with deity first with each other because
of our relationship with deity for eternity next
but as we close today we just want to say that
wherever you are and however you're feeling you're
welcome to be here with us you know jesus isn't
just waiting for you to clean your act up before
you come to him no he meets us again in the middle
of our mess why have we have examples of that
and that's where his grace shines the very brightest
he's waiting for us he just says Just come, you
know, ask me. So come as you are, broken, hopeful,
questioning, searching. You really are not alone.
You know what, Gang 2, we'd really love to stay
connected with you. We appreciate the emails
and the encouragement and all that that we've
received. You can continue to send those to us
at he redeems us at gmail dot com. He redeems.
us at gmo .com we read everyone you know if you
have questions or or maybe comments or maybe
there's something that you're wrestling with
that we're talking about um if it's appropriate
we'd love to share it and wrestle with it together
because if you're wrestling somebody else is
too so that would benefit others as well we probably
are too yeah that's true or have at least yeah
it's true yeah well if this episode has touched
your heart we hope that you'll share it with
someone you love and care about a friend a family
member anyone who could use a little more hope
right now. We, you know, we love to share hope.
Yeah, we all need hope. All of us. There's a
lot of power and hope, right? Yeah, you know,
next week, we're going to talk continue this
discussion, we're going to talk about how he
doesn't just redeem us, obviously, he compensates
us, he enables us, he strengthen us, he heals
us, he lifts us, he transforms us in our everyday
lives, our everyday lives. The joy and gratitude
I have for that. Thanks for being with us, everyone.
And remember, there is always hope through him
because you have been redeemed through his blood.
We love you. We hope that you'll continue to
listen. We hope that you'll share this with those
that you love. We'll see you next time.