Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another
episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. This is
Scott Durfey joined by the beautiful Debra
Durfey. What's up, Deb? Hi, friends. How are
you, babe? I'm so good. Good. How's the motorcycle
accident healing up? Oh, I'm cured. I'm just
waiting for my motorcycle to be healed now. You
know what I think is kind of funny about that?
I think it's funny how many people at church
thought you wrecked a bicycle. Well, and the
ones that are listening to the podcast are finding
out the dirty truth. Yeah, exactly. That got
revealed, I understand. At ward council. Ward
council yesterday. I know, Tim told on me. Shame
on you, Tim. Tim's got the intel, that's right.
We love Tim. Indeed, indeed. Great week at Institute
this past week. We talked a lot about really
important stuff, talked about faith. We're going
to be talking about that here tonight. Oh, I
love those kids. Aren't they awesome? They are
beyond amazing. Literally such good kids. Yeah.
You know what, Deb? We've been doing that Institute
thing for a while. a few years, four or five
years now. We started on Zoom. But it's so cool
when we get, like we did today, we get these
little wedding invitations. They're just so special.
Taylor's getting married and he was one of our
early students a few years ago and came several
semesters. So many do. So many keep coming back
and we still have a number that do. Man, so happy
for him and the many others. I tell some of those
kids, I want to put you in my back pocket and
take you home. I wish they'd let you. I love
them. They just are so pure. They're so good.
And they're so amazing. They strengthen me. And
they've got the world in front of them. They're
not without their challenges. They're not without
their roadblocks. They're not without their weapons
of rebellion, as we've spoken. spoke of and they
do it a lot more gracefully or something. I don't
know. Yeah, I don't know either. But, you know,
they're definitely prepared. And, you know, I
like to think that through study in the gospel,
especially the atonement of Jesus Christ, we
become even more prepared. You know, the first
so this will be episode eight already. The first
seven episodes. But by the way, I kind of made
a mistake. I put in social media that episode
eight had already been released and it hadn't.
That was episode seven. Oh, I know. I got called
out on it. Did you really? By Diane, my sister.
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, she said. Good job,
Diane. I know, right? Keep him honest. Which
brings me to another thing. I'll come back to
what I was about to say. I made a little bit
all over the place right now. But for those of
you who don't know, we do do a little bit of
social media. We're trying to ramp that up. Our
social media guy really is terrible at it. Rude.
That would be me. I know, but that's still rude.
I wish we could find somebody that was willing
to work for zero dollars an hour to kind of help
promote it, Dub, but... I'm not that person.
I just don't see that. I know you're not. I guess
I have to be, so... Don't complain about the
quality, sweetheart. Anyway, I didn't I know
you wouldn't. Anyway, we do have that out there.
So, you know, go out there like it, pass it around,
send it to your friends. We'd like to get those.
So many people are being benefited by the topic,
by the by the things that we talk about. And
we're getting still a lot of great emails from
people who are saying, Scott and Deb, thanks
for being so open and vulnerable and transparent
about your. crazy jacked up lives. They don't
really say it that way. But but but but I think
there's a lot of appreciation. You know, when
we gather together to heal together, the spirit
of God works within us collectively and individually
and in every other way. And I love that. And
that's really what keeps us going for me. You
know, I many years ago, 20 little over 26 years
ago, I was I was I don't know, we call it rock
bottom, right? We had, I had so much rotten stuff
going on because of the path that I had chosen
to put my life on and it was just difficult.
But I but I had a testimony. And when I had this,
well, all this stuff is going on, even though
I had a testimony that I couldn't get, I couldn't
get healing, I couldn't get the spirit in my
life to help offset all of the things that I
felt like I had to drink over or use drugs over
or, you know, whatever else. And I know there's
others out there who can relate to that. And
it can be any addiction or anything that we sometimes
use to just change the way I feel. But it was
difficult for me. You know, I knew I had a problem.
I knew that I couldn't fix my problem. And I
kind of knew that Heavenly Father could fix my
problem, but I just didn't know if he would.
I think one of the things that made me think
of that was whatever, you know, we do this podcast
because of the way our lives have been impacted
by the atonement of Jesus Christ. And I remember
a couple weeks ago when we were teaching at Institute
and there was a saying that whatever Jesus touches
lives. And I think about how grateful I am to
be able to testify of Jesus Christ. I just love
the fact that whatever He touches lives. I mean,
look at the plants, look at our lives, look at
our children, everything around us is just living.
I love that, that our goal here is to touch,
just give a little Jesus to everyone. Just that
little. It's really true. It's like my dear sweet
sister Beck says, we all need a little more Jesus.
More Jesus. Yeah, well what does that mean? Well,
for me, it is a myriad of things. because I,
you know, I mean, I love President Holland's
talk on how when he was in his coma and then
he came back and how he needed to pray more earnestly
and testify. I have really put that in the fleshy
tables of my heart. And I'm like, do I really
pray fervently? Do I, do I testify at every opportunity
that I can? You know, it's one of those things
that I've really been able to self -reflect.
And I think as we move into our topic tonight
on faith, faith is a huge piece for me of knowing
that not only knowing that God can do it, but
that He will do it. the divine gift of forgiveness
in chapter nine. There is a quote in there that
says, faith is not simply to know that God could
do something. Let me start again. It says, faith
is not simply to know God could do something.
Faith is to know He will. And that has been super
powerful for me as well. that how important faith
really is. Do I trust in God? Do I believe it
or do I know it? Do I really, really trust that
he will? Yeah, you know what that reminds me
of in Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, you just
said something about... I know that God could,
but I don't know... That He will. That He will,
right? That's from the book, from Elder Anderson's
book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, actually.
That's right in there. But there's another book
that that's in, you know, in the big book of
Alcoholics Anonymous. It's often said, and this
is one of the things that, you know, we often
talk about in Alcoholics Anonymous, is that God
could and would... if he were sought, right?
That God could what? Relieve us from alcoholism,
relieve us from all of the things, you know,
essentially all of the effects of the fall, which
show up big time in alcoholism, but that God
could and would. I always believed that God could.
I always believed he could, but I never believed
he would, not for me. Why would he for me? I
had disgraced him. I had broken covenants. I
had done all of the things wrong. Those black
marks in heaven. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But
you know what, so where I gained my faith, and
you know, when we talk about faith, I think it's
important that we kind of put some context around
what really is faith. You know, we read in the
Hebrews 11 at one, it says, now faith is the
substance of things hoped for and the evidence
of things not seen. So of course, I hope for
this faith, but I don't, it's something that
I don't, I have evidence, but I don't see it.
And where this really came to fruition for me,
Deb, was when I entered the rooms of Alcoholics
Anonymous in 1998. October 26, when I walked
in there, that's when my real faith journey began.
And I say faith journey began because I was at
a point, it talks about it in the big book that
we're at a turning point. And I was at that turning
point. I was at that jumping off point. It was
one way or it was the other way for me. And I
had to go the one way. And in order for me to
go that one way, I needed to establish a relationship.
A relationship with a higher power, a relationship
with God. You know it's interesting that it makes
me think of the articles of faith that we learn
in primary. And the fourth article of faith is
we believe in the first principles and ordinances
of the gospel. The first principles and ordinances
of the gospel are first faith in the Lord Jesus
Christ. then second repentance, third baptism
by immersion for the remission of sin and fourth
laying on the hands of the gift of Holy Ghost.
But I think it's so interesting that the first
principle and ordinance of the gospel, and we
learned that when we were so little, I had a
complete misunderstanding of faith. I think faith
for me was a belief, not a knowing. And so for
a long time, I think my my idea of what faith
was, was literally just, like the scripture says,
hope for things. Just hoping. Yeah. Hoping. I
have faith it'll work. I have faith that, you
know, but then there's other things that I have
a sure knowledge of, you know, of faith. It's
like, I know that the sun is going to come up
tomorrow. I mean, there's that. you know, type
of faith. And I know that God lives. I know He
is aware and I know He knows my name. And I know
that Jesus is my brother. So it's that when that
faith becomes that action and it becomes that
knowing, it's no longer hope for, but it's that
knowledge that I think. And I would say that
principle and ordinance turns that faith into
knowledge. But why do I care? Why do I even need
faith? And I think that this is, for me, where
kind of the rubber hits the road on this topic,
is why do I even need faith? I mean, I'm not
refuting that I do, but this is just the way
my brain works. I need to understand why it's
important that I do. Well, this isn't hard for
me to understand why I need faith. This is all
about a relationship for me. You know, faith
in Jesus Christ is about my relationship with
Jesus Christ. I love, in the big book of Alcoholics
Anonymous, in chapter five and how it works,
it talks about how I... how Scott Durfee and
maybe many other alcoholics across the world
and humans maybe come by gaining our faith or
why it becomes necessary. In the very beginning
it says rarely have we seen a person fail who
has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do
not recover are people who cannot or will not
completely give themselves to this simple program.
So that's the first step is I have to completely
give myself to this idea, to this this healing
to this program of redemption. So do you call
that faith? Well, let me finish. I'm getting
there because I kind of do. And then it goes
on and on and on and talks about how there are
those who cannot and will or will not. And then
it says that they're usually those who they are
naturally incapable. of grasping and developing
a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
So first of all, I have to give myself to the
program, to the idea. Second of all, I have to
be completely honest about it. I have to be honest
about what I can bring. I have to be honest about
what I'm lacking in terms of my faith, in terms
of my relationship with deity. Okay, in AA we
say with higher power. And then it goes on and
on. Our stories disclose in a general way what
we used to be like, what happened, what we are
like now. If you've decided that you want what
we have, and here's the third, or rather the
fourth part, and are willing to go to any length
to get it. So I have to be willing to go to any
length. in order to gain the kind of faith that
I say I want my life to offset all of the effects
of the fall, including to help me through the
repentance process, then I have to be willing
to go to any length. And then it goes on and
we beg of you to be fearless and thorough. That's
the fifth thing. I have to be fearless and I
have to be thorough. That can be difficult. That
can be difficult. We just listened to a talk
yesterday about the second temptation. Right
about hide right and that can be so difficult
as being being being fearless and thorough and
then and then finally It goes on and it says
some of us tried to hold on to our old ideas
and the result was Neil until we let go Absolutely.
So sometimes for me in order for me to enter
into that faith I'm gonna call it faith space.
I have to be willing to let go absolutely, of
everything else that I feel like's fulfilling
me or that's distracting me or changing the way
I feel, all of the effects of the fall of Adam
and Eve, including sin. The weapons and the rebellions.
Yeah, all that. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well,
we also have to know that in order for us to
have faith, that's the way that we enable repentance
and forgiveness. If we do not have faith, and
in my podcast that we interviewed, I didn't realize
that's what I was doing. I didn't realize that
I, because I too thought that I could not be
forgiven. I went through the process. There's
probably those that haven't heard that. Give
us just a 30 second synopsis of what you're talking
about. My belief system at that time, I was 17
years old, graduated from high school, pregnant,
and I knew that I had displeased the Lord and
I knew that I had displeased my family. I knew
that I had broke every law or anything that I
had been taught as a primary kid, a youth, and
as... You know, I went through the checkbox of
going to the bishop and telling the bishop and
that wasn't a huge success at first. And I, I
think it, for me, it was, um, yeah, I've messed
up too bad. I it's. I did all the checkbox stuff
so I should feel better. But what I didn't know
at that time was that I really didn't have the
faith that God could make this better. I was
in a predicament. I mean, when you're 17 years
old and you're pregnant with a baby and you know
that you cannot take care of this baby, I was
still in high school. I graduated from high school
at 17. when I had this decision in front of me,
I literally, I couldn't ask my mom, my dad. I
mean, I went to, you know, some support groups
and talked about, um, I mean, we, when, when
I went to with a support group and I would see
other girls that were single and, and pregnant,
I saw some that kept their baby. I saw some that
placed a baby for adoption and I had to make
this decision. I mean, that's a really big decision.
I have a little life that I'm bringing into the
planet. At 17 years old. And I knew that I could
not be her mother. Well, and honestly, I'm going
to probably cry because I knew she deserved a
dad. Sorry. And I couldn't give her a dad like
I had. And so I sought for um, looked into placing
her for adoption and I wanted her to have a mom
and a dad that loved and adored her like I did.
And so that's, that's the piece that I just thought,
okay, I have faith that God can take this baby
and put her where she belongs. I had no clue
where she, where she was to go. And the interesting
thing is I knew he would place her where she
needed to be. In fact, there's another interesting
story that goes with that, but I knew that God
would put her where she needed to be, but I didn't
know God would put me where I needed to be. Because
I had messed up. That baby was innocent. I wasn't.
I had made choices that got me into this predicament.
And so it was hard for me to believe that God
made my sins as white as snow. And so it was
an interesting process that I went through for
decades. And I'll tell you why is because 18
months after I had that baby and placed her for
adoption and I knew that she was, it was such
a, a heaven. I mean, God's hand was huge into
placing that baby. And within 18 months, I am
pregnant again and getting ready to have a baby
with another man. And I, I honestly think the
main reason why I got in that same predicament
is like, because I truly believed I was ruined,
I was damaged, I was not really forgiven. I did
not have faith unto repentance. I really didn't.
I mean, I knew God could put that baby where
she belonged, but I didn't think he could put
me where I was or where I belonged. And so it
took me decades to figure all of that out. So
now that I have that faith to understand, And
to know that, and I think that's why I openly
share this story so often, because I see my same
story numerous times and in numerous ways. I
mean, I've talked to young women that have had
babies and kept them. I've talked to women that
have had abortions. I have talked to women that
have had babies and place them and kept them.
And so it's like, just know that it's not, not
all is lost. And there is hope. You felt that
way, didn't you? Like all was lost, I mean. Yeah,
because I was damaged. I mean, and I had the
physical part of me damaged. You know, I had
stretch marks and I had an incision because I
had a C -section. And so I had the physical reminders
as well as the accuser reminders saying, you're
not, you're not. virtuous. You're not pure. You're
not clean. Even though I had gone through the
repentance process, I did not have faith that
he could heal me to that degree until decades
later. My experience is, although it's completely
different, it's pretty much exactly the same.
In that, I go on a mission. I come home off my
mission. I had done all these bad things before
my mission in terms of drinking and everything
like that. And then I come home off my mission
and I start drinking again. Did you repent before
you went on your mission? Well, that's a tricky
question, because this whole podcast is on repentance.
And I didn't understand, I don't think repentance
to the best of your ability, though. Yeah, yeah,
I did. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah,
I really I really did. I mean, you probably went
through the repentance process after your first
baby to the best way I knew how. Yeah, exactly.
The best way I. OK, the best way I chose how
I think I was always looking for a shortcut,
though. Personally, I'm not I know you weren't
but personally I think I was always looking for
a shortcut I come home off my mission I hanging
out with buddies again that I used to do bad
stuff with and before you know it my conversion
Obviously had not been solid enough because I'm
back doing those kinds of things and I knew that
I had made Heavenly Father mad. I knew that I
was a hypocrite, I knew that, and all this stuff,
you know, I'd lived a double life, I had been
living a double life, and I knew that he was
just mad at me. I did not believe, I knew that
he could, but I didn't think he would for me,
Deb. God couldn't would if he were son. I didn't
think he would for me. Yeah, because you knew
better. So what changed for you? I think for
me, honestly, I, I think when you and I went
to talk to our Bishop and we had, I, we had just
regurgitated and talked about this is, this is
where we're at. This is what we've done. And
I felt light. I just, I was like, I've got to
clean this up once and for all. And I think at
that point, well, I did, that's when I read the
miracle of forgiveness. I listened to it and
read it and highlighted it along. And I really,
I just thought, yeah, it was confirmed that I'm
pretty bad. I knew that I was not going to make
it to the celestial kingdom for sure. But it
wasn't until we started teaching the divine gift
of forgiveness and that I really studied the
atonement of Jesus Christ because what I learned
is that I needed to unlearn a lot of things that
I thought were true. And one of those main things
is that I'm not broken and God was not mad at
me. And this was part of my journey in learning
and growing. And I think that's why I am so open
with my story is so that not another human goes
through that pain and grief and that broken feeling
that I carried for decades, which was so unnecessary.
And so to understand that we're in a fallen state,
And we are here to learn and grow. And I think
that's why I always tell my kids now, when they
have a bad experience, I'm like, the only thing
worse than having a bad experience is not learning
from it. And I felt like I didn't learn from
it because I did it again. And so my question
to myself as well as my kids is, did you learn
something? And I finally was able to say, you
know what? I have learned. I have learned through
years of study and prayer and like communion,
like literally understanding my savior and his
sacrifice for me. I think I finally am getting
a grasp on the atonement of Jesus Christ and
what he has done for me. And just me. I mean,
that's the biggest piece that I, you know, I
remember hearing people saying, if you were the
only person on the planet, he would still do
it for you. And I really had to wrap my head
around that because I was like, no, we would
not. Like I wanted to argue it. Yeah. I don't
know. For me, I think If I were to ask myself
that same question, so what changed what what
what facilitated rather a change in my heart
or my behavior and my attitude. And I thought
about this before. In fact, I think that David
and I talked about this in a podcast a year or
so maybe two ago. But for me, Deb, it was the
gift of kind of a weird gift. But we call it
the gift of desperation. My life had come crashing
down. I mean, there were still places where it
could crash more. That's not the goal here though,
right? I had done a fine enough job crashing
it down without setting that goal. I mean, it
was bad. I mean, it was terrible. I had been
divorced more than once. I had financial troubles
all over the place. I was living a double life.
It was just crashing down for me. And I knew,
I believed in Heavenly Father. I said this before,
I don't remember a time when I didn't have a
testimony that wasn't the issue for me. Conversion
was the issue for me. I had not allowed Jesus
into my heart to change me permanently so that
I could maintain on that path. And that gift
of desperation, I went crawling into a... place
that I had heretofore judged, you know, Alcoholics
Anonymous. I thought that was for homeless people
who lived under bridges and, you know, people
with needle tracks in their arms and, you know,
and things like that. What I didn't realize is
that place would be where I met really a true
God for me. Because that's where I saw, that's
where I saw my desperation. And I saw him seeing
my desperation and I saw him being willing to
help me through that. You know, we've talked
about the first three steps in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Powerless over alcohol. My life's unmanageable.
Came to believe that a power greater than myself
could restore me to sanity and three made a decision
to turn my will and my life over to him. That's
about a relationship with deity. And once I established
that relationship with deity, Deb, it was easier
for me to trust in a loving Heavenly Father and
His Son through the Holy Ghost to redeem all
that had been broken, all that had been lost,
all that had been everything, right? So, I mean,
that's kind of how that was for me as well. It
reminds me of the story of Alma and Amulek. Alma
10, six, when Amulek says, I knew concerning
these things, yet I would not know. And I think
that, you know, we grow up knowing what we're
supposed to do, but for me, it was not really
knowing. Like, I knew in my head, but I didn't
know in my heart. And I think until my head and
my heart, I think it was one of those things
that it's like, I know I'm not supposed to do
this. I know that I am supposed to do this. I
know that I should be doing this or whatever.
But until that heart is converted, broken, open
enough for him to change my heart. I think that's
the piece that really I just allowed him to change
me. And I think that's where, you know, Alma
and Amulek, well, Amulek was also. Well, you
know, and you started there Alma 10 .6. I'm going
to read five. Nevertheless, after all this, I
never have known much of the ways of the Lord.
So Amulek's just introducing himself to us, right?
Yeah. Talking about his family and reputation
of those around him, etc. And nevertheless, after
all this, never have known much of the ways of
the Lord and his mysteries and marvelous Then
there's a period and he pauses. Then he says,
I said, never had I know much of these things,
but behold, I mistake. In other words, he caught
himself. He's like, yeah, well. I didn't know.
Maybe that's not so true after all. I make a
mistake, for I have seen much of his mysteries
and his marvelous power, yea, even in the preservation
of the lives of his people. And then that's where
it says. I did harden my heart for I was called
many times, but I would not hear, therefore I
knew concerning these things, yet I would not
know. Have you ever would not know? Yeah, I just
told you about a polite time I would not know.
I mean I knew, but I didn't know. I don't mean
that to you. I mean that to our listeners. So
what is there in our lives that we would not
know? Well, it's just like our favorite sin.
We know we shouldn't be doing or saying or believing
or whatever, thinking. Well, you know, and we
know that Heavenly Father sends us challenges
sometimes. We know that He sends us challenges
through our children or through the births of
our children or through physical challenges or
through all of these other things. And if we
know and know, then we can have those things
consecrated for our good. But if we know, yet
would not know, does that make sense? Am I making
any sense? Yeah, I think of that, that it's a
quote that says, no N -O God, or K -N -O -W God.
No God or no God. And I think that's the piece
that faith really plays a huge part in, is really
knowing that Not just knowing, but well, knowing.
Sounds redundant, but... And there's some more
stuff in Alma I want to talk about when it comes
to faith. But I think before we do that, I think
we should spend just a tiny bit of time maybe
just kind of talking about faith in the general.
Then I want to come back to this experiences
that Alma and Amulek are having and are going
to teach us. But I have a little book here, Deb.
The name of this book is called Lectures on Faith.
I recommend ever anybody get a hold of this.
There's seven lectures. in each one of these
lectures, and these lectures were done at the
School of the Prophets in Kirtland, Ohio. At
one point, they were part of the Doctrine and
Covenants. They were later removed as part of
the Doctrine and Covenants. But there's some
really great, important things in here, and there's
three main points, and if we can remember these
three main points, babe, I think that they can
really help us to establish faith. So the first
one is we need to have a belief or know that
God exists. And then the second thing is we really
need to understand the character, attributes,
and perfections of God. You know, I had an advantage,
I just have to say that, because I had a pretty
amazing earthly father that, and I know I'm unique
that way. I know for a fact I am. So for me to
have an understanding of a loving, nurturing,
father in heaven was not a difficult task for
me. My difficult, honestly, if I'm gonna be really
transparent, it was more difficult for me to
have a relationship with Jesus Christ because
I had never seen a perfect brother. I have six
of them. And I knew God was there. I knew God
was, he had my back. I knew he loved me no matter
what. Now, On the other hand, having a relationship
with Jesus Christ, he was untouchable to me because
I didn't know what a perfect brother looked like.
No offense to my brothers because I think they're
pretty amazing. It was very different for me
to understand and and then we also to me this
is how I understood it you don't pray to Jesus
you don't have have a relationship so I didn't
know how to have a relationship with Jesus Christ.
I didn't really have an understanding of what
that would look like. Well, what if our faith
in Jesus Christ, and I know you're all good with
this now, but what if our faith in Jesus Christ,
and this is to our listeners, so what if that's
the case, but our faith in Jesus Christ and our
relationship in Jesus Christ should be with him
through the Holy Ghost and because of and through
the blessings that come through his atonement,
right? It's a relationship with his atonement,
which is a gift from God as well. Knowing that
he exists knowing the character attributes and
perfections of God and then three And this is
really the one this third one is the one that
kind of puts the key and turns the key for me
I need to know that the course that I'm on is
pleasing to God If I can know those things then
faith grows into that faith that we were talking
about that faith of power as a matter and and
You know, faith has so many different levels.
So many different levels. And I had no idea as
a young, I had no clue what all of that meant.
Yeah, I mean, there's just general faith, and
there's faith in Jesus Christ, like we've talked
about, and then Alma, I mean, excuse me, Amulek
introduces us into an even additional faith,
which it begins to really get us into this faith
of power, Deb, in Alma chapter, 34, 15 through
17. Well, there you go. You're welcome. I wrote
it down. It's not in my brain. Okay. It's faith
unto repentance. I love this chapter. This whole
chapter is so... important about our relationship
with Jesus, our relationship with his atonement,
about his role in our salvation. Unless it talks
about how unless an atonement is made, all mankind
should perish. Do you want me to just read it?
Yeah, go ahead. Okay, Alma 3415, and thus he
shall bring salvation to all those who shall
believe on his name. This being the intent of
this last sacrifice to bring about the bowels
of mercy, which overpowereth justice and bringeth
about the means unto men that they may have faith
unto repentance. Okay, let's just stop right
there for just a second. There's a couple of
keys in here. 15. He shall bring salvation unto
all those who shall believe on his name, Deb.
Yeah, I have that highlighted. What does that
mean? When we believe on his name. I mean, later
we're gonna talk about another faith. When we
take upon his name. Which is faith in his name.
Yeah. And we know that when we take his name
upon us, that's when we enter into a covenant
relationship, right? Yep. Okay. Alright, 10,
I mean 16 rather. 34, 16. And thus mercy can
satisfy the demands of justice and encircles
them in the arms of safety while he that exercises
no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole
law of the demands of justice. Let me just say
out right there. Therefore, only unto him that
has faith unto repentance, there it is again,
is brought about the great and eternal plan of
redemption. And then in 17 it says, therefore,
may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye
may begin to exercise your, again, faith unto
repentance, that ye may, that ye begin to call
upon his holy name, that he would have mercy
upon you. Heaven only knows we all want mercy
upon us. And then I think, and we hadn't talked
about this, sweetie, but I think in 18 and several
verses thereafter, it really gives us an opportunity,
perhaps, or a pattern. in which maybe we can
gain some of this faith, right? Cry unto him
for mercy, for he's mighty to save. Yea, humble
yourselves and continue in prayer unto him. Cry
unto him when you're in your fields. Cry over
all your flocks. Cry unto him in your houses.
And it just goes on and on and on. And it's interesting
that it doesn't say, say your prayers. The adjective
here is cry unto Him. That seems to have a, that's
a word of energy, has some energy behind it.
It's more than just kneeling down and saying
my prayers. This is really pouring my soul out.
Crying. unto Him, so that I can have that faith
unto repentance. Now, what is faith unto repentance?
Let's talk about that for a second. What's faith
unto repentance, Deb? Well, I think, again, back
to the divine gift of forgiveness where it says
faith is not simply to know God could do something.
Faith is to know He will. So I think faith unto
repentance means exactly what I didn't believe
is that I have faith that repentance will work
and I will be forgiven. I mean, knowing faith,
not hoping for it, but knowing. I love too, after
it's done telling us to cry and cry and cry and
pray and pray and pray and all of that, down
in 31, about halfway through 31. Talks about
what will happen if we gain this faith unto repentance
and we put repentance into practice, into our
lives. Now let's just do this for a second. We're
gonna come back to repentance in a few more podcasts
down the road, maybe 11 or 12. We're on eight
now, so maybe three or four down the road we'll
actually be talking about repentance proper.
But when we talk about the word repentance, Deb,
how would you describe the word repent in a sentence?
To change, to turn away from those things that
take us away from God. To turn to Jesus? Absolutely,
turn to Jesus Christ. Yeah, to turn to Jesus
Christ, right? So it's just about turning to
Him. So we can use this word repent as it relates
to our sins. We can use the word repent as it
relates to any of the effects of the fall of
Adam and Eve that we're feeling in our lives.
Weapons of rebellion, depressions, anxieties,
any of those things that we've talked about in
the past. If you will repent and harden not your
hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption
be brought about unto you. Immediately shall
the great plan of redemption be brought about
unto you. What does that mean? What's a great
plan of redemption, and how does that look when
it gets brought about unto us, Deb? Well, we're
redeemed. Yeah, we're purchased. We're redeemed.
He's covered us, right? Just another word for
the atonement of Jesus Christ. He's covered us,
kefar, we sometimes say. Well, so I think that,
you know, Amulek is a fantastic example of faith.
You know, we have Alma 32, we have Alma 33, and
Alma 34. Alma 32, the whole thing is about faith,
really. One of the things I really love about
Amulek, rather, is that when Amulek was teaching
the people in 15 through 18, when he was teaching
the people, he was about to call them to repentance.
But before he called them to repentance, he taught
them about faith in Jesus Christ. Why is it important
for us to understand faith in Jesus Christ before
we get into repentance? Well, he's the one that
purchased us. He's the one that sacrificed for
us. And I think that's important for us to know
that the Atonement has nothing without Jesus
Christ. Jesus Christ is the power behind the
Atonement. And understanding that His power,
His love for us, just understanding Him, knowing
Him and knowing that He loves me gives me the
ability to trust Him. that he will redeem me,
that he will pay for my sins, that he will offset
through his atonement, through the blessings
of his atonement, that he will offset the effects
of the fall of Adam and Eve. And it's important
that we know that. Before we can really begin
a repentance process, we really have to know
that he can and he will, just like we've been
talking about. Yeah, yeah. I think it's important
to remember in Alma 32, in 27, where it says,
but behold, if you awake and arouse your faculties
even to an experiment upon my words and exercise
a particle of faith. What's a particle of faith?
Ye even if ye can know more than desire to believe.
Let this desire work in you even until you believe
in a manner that ye can give place for a portion
of my words. part right there is so powerful
in just asking for a desire to believe. If you
don't have the faith, if you don't have, just
ask for the desire to believe. Well, now you're
really, what you're really talking about now
is how can I increase my faith in Christ, right?
Yes, absolutely. I mean, we talked about crying
out. Of course, that can help us. So do that
one more time. Talk about that. Say that whole
thing one more time. And listeners, just remember
that what we're talking about right now is how
can I increase my faith? in Jesus. Well I'm gonna
back up into Alma 32 26 and 27 if that's okay.
Now as I said concerning faith that it was not
a perfect knowledge even so it is with my words
you cannot know of their surety at first unto
perfection any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.
Now into 27 but behold if you will awake arouse
your faculties even to an experiment upon my
words and exercise a particle of faith." You
know, we hear a lot about a seed. This is just
a particle of faith. Ye even if ye can know more
than desire to believe, let this desire work
in you even until ye believe in a manner that
ye can give place for a portion of my word. So
I mean just having a desire to believe. Because
I know it's not easy. I know for a fact it is
not easy. In 28, now we will compare the word
unto a seed. Now if you give place that, if ye
give place, that seed may be planted in your
heart. Behold, and it can't be a hard heart,
just for the record. Behold. Yeah, behold, if
it is a true seed, a good seed, if you do not
cast it out by your unbelief, that you will resist
the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin
to swell within your breasts. And when you feel
these swelling motions, you will begin to say
within yourself, within yourselves. It must needs
be that there is a good seed or that the word
is good. For it beginneth to enlarge my soul.
Yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding.
Yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me." I have
to push pause here for a second because understanding
faith understanding Jesus Christ's atonement
this is where we start to see miracles when we
have a desire to plant a seed and we start to
enlarge and we start to swell and we start to
enlighten we literally I I'm going to say I not
we I get to witness those miracles. I get to
see the change of heart. I get to see the literal
hand of God in my life. And does that increase
faith? Absolutely. And does that faith become
powerful and more powerful and more powerful
the deeper and more you have? And that's why
I testify is because of those little moments
where I'm feeling so helpless and so hopeless
and I have gone too far. And then when I look
up and just go, just a tiny desire, get me out
of this hole, get me out of this pit. And then
just pleading and crying out and saying, help
me, please lift me. And knowing and seeing that
he does literally because I kept my thought was
I can't stay here. I am, I'm stuck. And I think
that's the piece that the last one it says, enlighten
my understanding yet it beginneth to be delicious
to me. That's where we literally find our joy
in that deliciousness of the growth of the seed
and seeing the enlargement and the enlightenment
and those miracles that come by that desire.
that desire to believe. I love all that. And
then there are two more verses in that chapter
that I kind of want to read. Number 32. So we're
going to be in 41 and 42 here. But if you will
nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it
beginneth to grow by your faith with great diligence
and with patience. looking forward to the fruit
thereof, it shall take root and behold it shall
be a tree springing up unto everlasting life.
and because of your diligence and your faith
and your patience and with the word in nourishing
it that it may take root in you behold by and
by you shall pluck the fruit thereof which is
most precious which is sweet above all that is
sweet which is white above all that is white
yea and pure above all that is pure and you shall
feast upon this fruit even until you are filled
and you hunger not neither shall you thirst.
I have a note in here that nourish means sustain,
support, endure, and in the Hebrew language it
means contain. I love that. Contain, that's interesting.
Sustain, support, endure, and contain. I love
that. Well, you know faith's a big topic and
you know, we just don't haven't had enough time
probably to really get into all the ins and outs
of it There's a lot of great stuff on faith faith
in faith in Jesus Christ faith under repentance
faith in the name of Jesus Christ faith is about
a relationship establishing developing and maintaining
a loving relationship with deity and that and
our faith in deity comes as we Spend time getting
to know him as we learn to love him deeper and
as we strive to Be perfected or be completed
or converted through him all of these things
come into our life Deb so that we can begin to
fill the divine gift of healing and the divine
gift of forgiveness in our life. Divine gift
of healing from all the effects of fallen and
the divine gift of forgiveness from our sins
so that we can repent and fill the spirit of
our Heavenly Father at work in our lives giving
us joy and happiness. I think it's important
for us to well for me to remember also I don't
remember which talk it was in general conference
that they talked about. Are we giving deity,
our best self or our leftover self? You know,
are we giving him the first breath of, you know,
our day or are we giving him our exhausted breath,
you know, or our tire breath even from staying
up too late, whatever. But I've thought about
that a lot and I'm like, am I giving my best
self to him? Because he's given his best self
to me. I just have another quote from the Divine
Gift of Forgiveness in chapter 9, page 102. Faith
is something that grows and as it grows you receive
heavenly gifts, power, and the ability to do
what you could not do without it. And that's
basically what we've been talking about is we
cannot do it without it. There's no way. We're
not meant to do it without it. No, and he can,
and I'll let him. And I need to let him. Well,
as we just kind of close out today, we just want
to say that wherever you are and however you're
feeling, you're welcome here. You know, Jesus
isn't just waiting for you to clean everything
up before you come to him. He meets us right
in the middle of our mess. That's where his grace
shines the brightest. So come as you are, broken,
hopeful, questioning, searching. You're definitely
not alone. And remember, we'd love to stay connected
with you. So if you have any thoughts, questions
or stories you'd like to share with us, please
just send us an email. You can do that at he
redeems us at gmail .com. He redeems us at gmail
.com. We read everyone. We try to respond to
everyone. And those where it's appropriate, we'll
share on the podcast as well. And if this episode
touched your heart or any others, we hope that
you'll share it with someone you love and care
about, a friend, a family member, anyone who
could use a little more hope right now. Next
week, we're gonna talk more about the Savior,
how he doesn't just redeem us, he heals us, he
lifts us, he transforms us, he converts us, he
helps us develop faith, he helps us to see our
way through difficulties in life, and he does
it in our everyday lives. Thanks for being with
us. And remember there is always, always, always,
always hope through him because you have been
redeemed and I have been redeemed through his
blood. Thanks for being with us everybody. We'll
see you next time.